The Viall Files - E349 Ask Nick - Dating My Ex’s Lover’s Ex

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

Today on Ask Nick we dive into the wild world of situationships. We start with our first caller who after being cheated on by their fiancé, develops a relationship with the ex-husband of the girl her fiancé is cheating with. Does this relationship have any chance for success or are the circumstances just too weird to stand a chance? Our next caller asks for advice on re-connecting with their ex best friend, or if too much time has passed for it to be worth it. Our next caller is a mother of four and re-entering the dating world. After a date with a 21 year old, our caller wonders if this man is too young to take on a mature relationship. Our last caller recently bought a house with their partner, but is not sure if they’re compatible. Now the caller is struggling to decide if their expectations are too high or if their partner is just not capable of standard expectations. “It seems like he’s acknowledging to you that he still has some growing up to do.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at www.viallfiles.com today! Use code “VIALL” to get 25% off during our Black Friday Sale (offer runs 11/25-11/29) THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rothy’s: Get $20 off your first purchase at http://www.Rothys.com/Viall with extended returns and exchanges through the holidays.  Mrs. Fields: Go to http://www.MrsFields.com/Files to get 20% off everything, site-wide.  MasterClass: This holiday, give one annual membership and get one free! Go to http://www.MasterClass.com/Viall today.   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Vile Files.

What's up, Amanda? I cooked for my friends last night. You cooked for your friends? Yes. One of my best friends does this tradition that when I was visiting her, I got to witness firsthand called Sunday dinner, where she just cooks a really nice meal with her roommates and they have a few of their friends over. called Sunday Dinner, where she just cooks a really nice meal with her roommates and they have a few of their friends over. And I was like, damn it, I'm starting up Sunday Dinner. I'm not a good cook. I braved it. It was not a particularly fancy meal, but it was a very satisfying one to execute. What did you cook? Okay. So the main pretty generic, just like a pasta sauce and pasta that I like jazzed up.

But the star was the side dish that I made that has carrots, feta, and mint in it. And they're sort of like mashed together and it's a flavor explosion. You said you don't like that. No, I'm more curious like how was the pasta sauce? Was it a red sauce? Yeah. It was like, well, okay. Did you buy like ragu and put garlic in it or something? Okay. I got a Trader Joe's version and then I cut up some peppers and onions and a little bit of garlic and sizzled. Did you get marinara?

Yeah, I sizzled up those ingredients and then added the marinara to it. Do you want to learn how to make the best homemade marinara sauce ever? Yes, yes, I would. Actually, I learned it from Vanessa. I'm literally texting Natalie about it right now because I'm going to make my homemade meatballs

for her family for Thanksgiving. Do you feel confident in the homemade meatballs? Oh, yeah. Okay, so like no nerves at all? About the family trying it and what their reception is going to be? No. This is the same family where Natalie and I went to Hawaii and then

stayed with her cousin. And I made steak for everyone. And I made like three or four steaks and cut it up. And the response, I just sat on the table while they were talking and they all stopped and they still talk about the steak. I know what I'm good at when it comes to cooking. Sure. Yeah. I know. And it's meat.

I'm good at meat. Yeah. And pasta. I'm pretty good at pasta. Real simple, you just get two cans of San Manzano whole tomatoes. Okay, yeah. You can get them diced if you want to. You dice up onion and garlic. Get it in a pot. Saute it.

Saute the garlic and then the onions a little bit. Brown them. Don't burn them. Totally. Put the tomatoes in it. Put a couple leaves of basil. Totally. Let it slow cook for 20, 30 minutes and then mash the potatoes

and let that cook for a couple hours. If you do make meatballs, you can brown the meatballs and then let them cook in the sauce. But that's really all you need. That's so simple. So simple. It's shockingly simple.

Shockingly simple. You can put a little sugar if you want to take the acidity down, but it's actually pretty sweet tomatoes already. Totally. And then you let it cook real slowly. It'll evaporate. You take the cover off, it'll evaporate a little bit and thicken it up to your liking, whatever. Was that also the first dish you made well? Or rather, what was? No. Okay. What was the first thing where you were like,

oh, I got this on lock. I could cook this for people. That was a family recipe that I got from my grandma that my mom used to make. Really simple. I've always been a decent cook. My French toast was the first thing I mastered. You just have to follow ingredients.

But the problem is, is people, they will read ingredients as they cook. And so like, if you're reading the instructions while you're cooking, it's too late. Totally. Something's going to burn. Something is not going to be put in

when it needs to put in because you're like, oh shit, now we need the garlic. But now you have to peel and cut the garlic and dice the garlic. Meanwhile, the onions are burnt or something like that. So like, it's all about preparation.

I don't like recipes. Nothing new in your life? I like to just dump shit together, which over the weekend did not work very well for me because I try to make like spaghetti. And I started out with some garlic, added some onion, put the meat in there. Meat was still somewhat frozen,

but I was trying to work my way around it. Dump some taco seasoning in there. Then I put the sauce in. Tastes like shit. What? It's so weird. Allie. I don't know.

I've been eating it all week, though, because I don't want to throw it away. Allie. Guys, I'm thriving. You need to find a cook. Sounds like maybe in a dating situation. I cooked chicken for the first time at your house. And it was Jeff's leftover chicken that I no longer needed.

So wait, the dog food? No, like Cindy bought. Because Jeff eats like a very nice like chicken and turkey dog food. I saw my own bag of dog food. No, but Jeff had a stomach issue. And so we were boiling chicken and rice for jeff once you do that you don't go back my uncle started like making his shih tzu like a

little blend of like chicken and rice and veggies and again when someone was when the dog was sick and then they haven't done anything else since yeah you love your dog but yeah context matters that ally did definitely i ate real chicken it was intended for Jeff, but he no longer needed it. But you definitely give off the energy that like, I don't know, it's not going to kill me. I'm hungry. 100%. And you would eat dog food.

110%. I didn't realize you're supposed to throw food away. I thought in the fridge, it was supposed to just last forever. And then I was like, can I eat this chicken that's been in here for over a week? And my brother said yes and my sister said no and I listened to the doctor. I once had a roommate who couldn't cook

and I always been able to cook and I made spaghetti once. And I'm sure people, I'm not very good at cleaning out the fridge. And so this leftover spaghetti hung out in the back for a long time. And then one night

he came home from the bars just hammered and ate it. Was it moldy? I don't know. It wasn't like three weeks old. It was like maybe three or four months old.

That's a different level. And he was like, I don't know it was good it had this nice little fuzzy cheese on it real fancy anyway we have a great episode for you today with some of our callers and boy are

you in for a treat don't forget to send in your questions at asknick at castmedia.com and stay tuned for this week some Are you in for a treat? Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com, cast with a K. And stay tuned for this week, some incredible BATSTRAT recapping for you, as well as on Wednesday, we have the wonderful, talented Charlie Jordan with us. Awesome conversation with Charlie,

crushing it in the DJ space, as well as just a really fascinating person who came from a Mormon background and has some interesting thoughts on life and religion and growing up in a very conservative household, as I know relates to a lot of you listeners and kind of the shame and stress

of trying to live your own life, but still take parts of your upbringing that were still positive. But I really enjoyed my conversation with Charlie and I think you will too. So be sure to check that out. Check out our introverted line on vilefiles.com if you find yourself wanting to feel more connected.

Don't forget, this is our last day of our Black Friday merch sale. 25% off code V-I-A-L-L for all things merch, specifically our introvert line, but really all of our merch storewide. 25% off. V-I-A-L-L. So check it out.

Let's get to our callers. How's it going? Hi, I am Chelsea. I'm 37 years old and I'm from Denver. Hi, Chelsea. How can I help? I actually just recently went through a breakup with my fiance. We were together for three years.

I am previously divorced prior to me getting into this relationship. divorced prior to me getting into this relationship. I recently found out in the past, like probably three months ago that he was having an on and off affair with one of his coworkers. I found out through some text messages on his Apple watch. I'm really not. Yeah. Right. Every time. Dude, if you're cheating guys don't and like don't embrace technology really keep everything analog right um and i'm really

not one to like go snooping or anything but i had just this like gut feeling like you know we we and during this three months we bought a house. This was our first time us moving in together. And there was just something off throughout this few weeks that we moved into the house. We bought furniture for the house. So you're both on the mortgage? Yes. Why would someone cheat? This guy doesn't make any sense.

Right? So if you know you're cheating, and the person you're cheating on with, you're like, let's get an Ovid who have very long-term commitment by riding real estate together. Correct. And I mean, involving all of our families, all of that stuff. So anyway, so I find out he like flees the scene. You know, he doesn't not admit it. What do you mean he flees the scene?

So I confront him. He's like sleeping on the couch, confront him. And, um, I was like, Hey, you need to tell me,

are you and so-and-so like, are you guys, are you cheating on me? And he was like, are you like, you cheating on me and he was like did you say that or you're like are you fucking her oh i did it was a little it was a little more intense you know please share the color you know it's a podcast i mean it was it was like what the like what the fuck get up like i you know reenact you know reenact it for me no i'm just kidding reenact it for me. No, I'm just kidding. Reenact it. Oh God.

I was like in a fit of rage, you know, because so I think I woke him up and I threw my engagement ring at him and I said, you're a lying piece of shit because I, you know, I've gone through therapy before. Like I've gone through a divorce. I've been checking in, like gutchecking this guy throughout this entire... Through our relationship. I don't want to buy a house with you if I'm going to move in to move out. I'm not doing this. Wait, wait, wait. You said you were gut-checking him. You're saying this to him? Or you're asking yourself? Yeah. I was asking directly, do I have anything that I should be worrying about? Is there anyone I should be

worrying about? No, Chelsea, everything is fine. You have nothing to worry about. Yeah. But what have we learned from this? That people lie. When you said, I gut checked myself, I thought you originally meant you were checking in with yourself about how your gut felt. Well, and I did at that time too, because I would just, my anxiety during probably the three weeks we were living together was really, really high. And I couldn't sleep. And there was just something pulling me saying, something is not right here. And so I eventually said,

let me just see who the last person he texted was. And it was this woman. But we also not like, yeah. So the next time when your gut's telling you something, I mean, once in a while, I think maybe people come clean for the most part. It's always funny that the people that we are, are feel the most angst about we go to them

to try to feel better which in some ways makes sense but when that angst is about them maybe being unfaithful or dishonest it's like what do we expect the dishonest unfaithful people to say but right i digress anyway so anyway. So he, so I threw my engagement ring at him. I said, you're a lying piece of shit. And I, and the first thing I said, I sat down on the couch and I said, well, what are we going to do about this? And he was like, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, I was like, I mean, I bought a house with this man. Like I, he got down on one knee. It is a seller's market. Um, I, you know, when I, when, when he, when I said yes to this man, like I was committing my life to him and I said, you know, but I, then I asked is, was this sexual? And he said, well, yes. And then I asked how long has this been going on for?

And he goes, six months. And I go, get the fuck out of my house. Great. I picked up my phone and he was like, who are you going to call? I'm like, your mother. Because I know you are going to lie about everything. And this isn't a... I really appreciate that level of petty. Oh, Chelsea and I broke up. Oh, it was petty for sure. That's good for you. You called mom but oh yeah because i go you're gonna lie to her it was really good what did mom say um oh his mom was devastated for me i mean she had no idea and the house that we bought is less than a mile away from here they live less than a

mile away okay so now what so during that, I'm on the phone with his mother. He packs up all of his shit, puts it in his truck, and he goes back to his parents' house. That's awesome. And I'm just kind of stuck with that. Did he know you told mom when he went home to his mom? Yeah.

I don't know. And his mom was there. I mean, you know, that's the thing about parents. They'll take it back. I guess so. So anyway. Gotta hear his mom just look at him in shame. Yeah, pretty much. Anyway, getting back to kind of like my major question here is that I recently so we are no longer together. We're we've sold the house. I'm trying to get my life back in order. And after I found out about the affair, I went on my social media and I had a message that I did not see from the ex-husband of the woman that he was sleeping with.

And he doesn't have social media. And he created an account and he found me. And he messaged me two days before I actually found out and said, Hey, Chelsea, this has been going on for 10 months. And I'm getting a divorce. I just want you to know, because I didn't think that it was right that you didn't know any of this was going on. And then I couldn't find him because he didn't have social media. So then I went on a girl hunt and I found a cell phone number with his name and reached out to him and thinking that maybe it was him and it was. And we kind of have started this little bit of a relationship based upon our traumas because he's now in the midst of a divorce.

He was with this woman for 10 years. And we have connected on this weird kind of circumstance. And at first, it was very much like, hey, I'm so sorry. Let me know if you need anything. But then it would be hours and hours of phone conversations, text messages, very much of like, I can't believe he would do this to you. You're so wonderful. All of this kind of like, you know, I don't like saying like love bombing, but a little bit of love bombing. What do you mean? Just very much like... He said, I love you? You know, he didn't say, I love you. No, he was like, I just couldn't... I guess, yeah. I mean, maybe more trauma bonding would have been a better. Sure.

So, but I mean, it made me feel good because I felt like shit. My fiance pretty much treated me like crap, didn't have any respect for me. And this other guy is coming to the table with some nice things to say about me. So you want to know if you should pursue this or not? Is that your question? Yeah. And I mean, and we, we did go out one time and we ended up sleeping together. You've had sex with them? Yes. Okay. Was it good? Uh, it was average. What was average about it? I mean, we were drinking a little bit prior to um you know it's always just

a little awkward the first time with someone new but you're attracted to him i'm definitely attracted to him so it wasn't necessarily his like your physical attraction or like the size of his dick no just the chemistry yeah okay because that could certainly be improved yeah absolutely and i think i think my my question to you is i mean i would totally be in my head if i was having sex with the fiance of the you know what i'm saying like i i would be like mid-fuck i'd be like this is fucking weird you know oh and i think that that was like part of the thing right i would assume it'd be like, this is fucking weird, you know? Oh, and I think that that was like part of the thing. Right? I would assume it'd be kind of fucking like,

what are we doing? Is this okay? Well, like the next more, the one we kept saying that like, is this okay? I don't know. I don't know. So the sex could get better.

Yeah. I guess my question to you is, do you think that there's too much baggage there? Or do you think that I should still pursue a potential relationship with this person because we have similar stories? Or is that just weird? trauma bonding going on. I don't know. I talked to a therapist about meeting in their expert opinion. If you continue to hang out with them, listen, just because

of this unique situation doesn't mean you guys couldn't serendipitously fall for each other. But you clearly are bonding over this shared trauma. That is making you feel a connection that has nothing to do with you two as individuals.

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a great deal of the things that you're connecting over is this mutual hatred for your exes, right? So you need to be really careful that you want to connect for who you are as individuals because eventually, hopefully, you too will get over these people who hurt you and all you'll be left with is each other and you need to make sure there's still a bond there knowing nothing about trauma bonding i'm suspecting that's why trauma bonding often doesn't work is that you're bonding over things that have nothing to do with each other

right so you just need to slow the fuck down with this person. You guys need to acknowledge the obvious. People have a way of acknowledging things. Like, oh my God, we're totally trauma bonding. But not really. You know what I'm saying? They acknowledge it and then simultaneously dismiss it. Ha ha ha, laugh it off. We're trauma bonding.

But whatever. We feel good. This is good. It's good. Why should we not? We deserve to feel good we felt shitty for so long so you need to acknowledge it and then you know do something with that acknowledgement so just yeah slow down get to know each other yeah and i so and i that's what i kind

of said to him i said well recently so maybe Stop fucking for a while. Well, no. After the one physical thing happened, I was the one that was like, hey, that was a little weird. Maybe we should just take out this physical stuff because I think it's going to really overcomplicate stuff. And he said, I agree with you. I want to work on myself. I don't know if I've completely healed yet. I'm like, well, I'm not completely healed either. This is still relatively raw. But I enjoy your company and I enjoy the conversations that we have. But I'm always thinking, is this revenge from his perspective? Does he really like me as a person? Where is that? of is that? Like, you know, like you said, like, I want to get to know him not as the ex-fiance of a guy that he can't stand. You know, it's, I want him to like me. I'm assuming he's not even divorced yet. I think it's like in the next couple of weeks or something. So, but, you know, then we kind of like

let things go. And he was like, I think I just need time to focus on myself. And then just recently, like last week, he just called me out of the blue and was like, Hey, just checking in. And I was like, okay, hi, uh, where have you been? Um, I don't want to just be like a convenience, like, you know, but hope you're well. And I mean, he did say he wanted to take some time apart and work on himself.

No. Yeah. No, he did. So, which is totally fine. I mean, it's fine.

It's fine. It's fine. You don't have to like, when you guys are like, Oh, let's slow thing down. You both sound like, yeah, no, I are like, oh, let's slow thing down. You both sound like,

yeah, no, I mean like, I need to work on me first. Like you don't have to like neg each other while like just maturely just saying, let's just slow down. Maybe set some boundaries and expectations around what slowing it down means.

Right? So then you're not also waiting on each other feeling like, oh, should I be waiting? Should I not? Be like, hey like hey listen let's um you know you say you hey listen we clearly have trauma bond or whatever there's some risk here but i minus all that i think i might like like i enjoy spending time with you do you enjoy spending time with me yes yes great all right so let's we can we can

enjoy each other right but also let's take it slow i want to hang out i want to talk but let like we also you know we probably both have some work to do on ourselves but doesn't get to like stop hanging out so like maybe should you want to like maybe just let's let's try to get together once a week and check it and maybe go on a date or hang out or maybe take a walk or something. And are we agreeing to see other people? Yes, no, okay, probably. Let's not be exclusive.

I think I need to be open to dating and meeting other people. And are you okay with that? And then he could say, yeah, sure. And then just be okay. How old is he? He's 36. Okay. So you're the same age, right? You're two adults, right? So you guys should be able to check in. You're not like 22 or 21 anymore. So awkward like check-ins that sometimes feel awkward, shouldn't be that awkward. You know, you're just like,

you know, I'm going to keep dating other people, maybe try some apps, but I do want to slowly continue to hang out with you. And let's just keep the dialogue going, you know? And maybe you do this for a month and you're like, to be honest, we hang out, we go on these walks and I find myself wanting to hang out we go on these walks and i

find myself wanting to hang out with you more do you want to hang out more you know like i don't you know what i'm saying like and he's like oh say me too and then you hang out more but like you know you just do that slow progression i'll you know maybe at some point you guys agree to stop dating other people, but why don't you guys just practice being super communicative with each other instead of wondering and then be like, well, I don't like you.

I need to work on myself too. And then he disappears for a week and then he reaches out of the blue and you're just like, I've been weirdly waiting around for you. Yeah. I don't want to wait around like i have a lot of work that i'm doing on myself too you know like you guys can keep talking you can take it slow while still being very communicative with each other yeah and being very communicative to each other i mean

you're talking every day it just means that before you like you know like you have an interview and they're like you know advice people say in an interview is like, before you leave, they're like, talk about next steps. You know, you don't, don't be like, what are our next steps? But like, you guys should have some, you've had sex with each other. There's, there should be some like consideration on both your parts of like how fragile you guys have been. And there should be some empathy on both your parts of what you guys have been

through. And you should both like, it should your parts of what you guys have been through. And you should both, it should be easy for both of you to want to go out of your way to be like, at the risk of being too communicative and too empathetic, sort of make sure like, yeah, so I'll talk to you this weekend.

Great. And then you follow up this weekend. And then you say, and then respect each other's boundaries. And then you say, and then respect each other's boundaries. And if you say, I'm going to talk in a week, don't talk. Use that time.

Even if you want to talk, just don't. And the next time you see the person say, I found myself wanting to reach out. But I didn't because we agreed to take it slow and I wanted to respect that. And I enjoyed missing you. I enjoyed wanting to talk to you and I wanted to respect that. And I enjoyed missing you.

I enjoyed wanting to talk to you and not talking to you, you know? Yeah. And, and you just take it nice and slow. And at any point, and when you guys check in, someone has a right to be like,

things have changed for me, you know? Right. And then, yeah, you'll be disappointed. Sure. But you won't feel lied.

You know, for two people who, who've been lied to and cheated on you guys should really be embracing this like over communication here and and over communicating doesn't mean not taking it slow right yeah i think that's i think that's you communicate about taking it slow setting up for an expectations next steps you know you know you don't have to treat it like a job interviewer but you know the same ideas apply yeah how are you feeling about this like you know when you want to talk again stuff like that yeah i mean i think that's i think that's a good test for myself too just now being newly single again and like just like you said setting boundaries and

being more communicative because maybe in the past that just, you know, was the demise of a lot of my relationships. So I think it's a good time. If it's someone who, you know, I'm at an arm's reach with that we were really vulnerable with each other, might as well lean into it a little bit more. Yeah. Don't put the added pressure of each other by getting the other person to guess how you're feeling or when they want to talk just aren't you tired of guessing how someone feels you know yes

aren't you tired of guessing that they might be able to guess how you feel you just put it out there yeah well thank you alright alright well best of luck thank you. All right. All right. All right. Well, best of luck. Thank you.

Nice juicy story. It's fun. All right. Let us know how it goes. I will. All right. Thanks. Bye-bye. Master class. Be a master. Take a class and give the gift of knowledge to the ones you love. Also, it's the easiest, the best part about giving someone masterclass is a gift.

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Go to masterclass.com slash V-I-A-L-L today. That's masterclass.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Terms apply. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name?

Okay. My name is Kate and I'm 28. Hi Kate. How can I help? I have a question about an ex best friend. So about five years ago, she ghosted me and I know people say ghosted a lot, but she like actually ghosted me.

Like one day we were best friends. The next I didn't hear from her for five years. So yeah, right. I know they say that her for five years. That sounds like ghosting. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I know they say that a lot on here, but this one really was. Basically, some backstories. We've been friends since first grade. I mean, you know how kids are friends in elementary school, but we became best friends in high school. Then after high school, neither of us really went to school. So we just kind of... We're little hoodlums running around, just hanging out, doing young people stuff. Then after high school, neither of us really went to school. So we just kind of were little

hoodlums running around, just hanging out, doing young people stuff. So we were kind of just dating people, hanging out, doing our own thing. And then eventually, I got into a pretty serious relationship. And everything was good in the beginning. But then eventually, I could tell that my friend didn't like him very much. So I think I've always thought that was part of the reason that the ghosting occurred. I was invited to a party that her friend was throwing. And I RSVP'd.

I said, okay, I'd be there. So then I texted her the day before and I said, okay, I can't wait. And she said, oh, no, the party was canceled. And I said, oh, okay. Well, no problem. Let me know if you wanted to get together. And then she didn't't and then i'm seeing posts of pictures and videos from the party that occurred without me okay this is all happening

before the ghost this yeah that was like the initial part of the ghost and then um so then the next day i reached out and i was like hey if you guys didn't want me there you know like i get it i understand and i kind of just told her how it hurt me and whatever and never that was it never So then the next day I reached out and I was like, hey, if you guys didn't want me there, I get it, I understand. And I kind of just told her how it hurt me and whatever. And never, that was it. Never heard from her again. That's it? So yeah, literally, that's it.

I would say the most recent development was why I ended that relationship that she didn't approve of. So then that's kind of when I started thinking, because I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what happened. Was it that? Was it this? Of course, I came up with a million reasons.

Has she tried to reconnect with you? No. The one thing she did, this is going to sound so silly and it probably means nothing, but she liked an Instagram photo for the first time in five years. So that kind of gave me like,

not hope necessarily, but just a little bit of like, oh, so you do, we never unfollowed each other. Nothing. So, I mean, so I'm assuming that's what prompted you to reach out. Cause kind of, yeah. I mean, I've been thinking about it for years. This is five years ago. Yeah. And you're still in your mind. Um, yeah, it is. I don't know why.

What bugs you so much about it? I think just that I don't know exactly what happened i think it's just closure i just wish i knew but then i go back and forth because i'm like do i want to know you know like what if it's something i don't want to hear what and what do you think it could be so just for context you guys went from like hanging out every day multiple times a day like to like she was gone well there, there was a bit of... It slowed towards the end. I think I saw it coming,

but she would reassure me that, no, we're still friends. It's still good. She had gotten married. So she had also found somebody and they got married. And then after that, then she sort of...

The pullbacks was, oh, she's married. No big deal. She's just busy. And then she would tell me, oh, no, I'm just busy, whatever. And then that happened. so you sensed it um i wasn't completely surprised i suppose yeah gotcha and so what what what are you looking to get from me um i guess i just want to know if it's even

worth my time to reach out because I've already prepared myself. If I did reach out for her to just not say anything, you know, I mean, it's been this long, so I wouldn't be that surprised if she just didn't respond at all or even worse. I hear like an answer. I don't want to hear. And what could that be? Like, what's the worst thing you could hear? Maybe just that she didn't like me anymore just outgrew me that would be the worst i think so yeah if that is the worst and i agree that's probably the worst thing you could hear right but is it that bad i guess no no i guess it's not that bad i mean i understand why your feelings maybe her ego would be bruised and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel anything, but that is the worst thing that could happen.

That's true. That's true. It could definitely be worse. Then there's the, then there's the question is like, why at this point do you care? I understand closure. I get it.

Yeah. But it has been five years. Right. And as I'm sure you've heard me say, like, you don't need closure from her. Right. Right.

It's a nice to have at this point, your ego. And I get the human side. I do get why you would want an answer. Right. That is your, at this point, that is your ego.

That's still five years later being like, we need a valid explanation of why you chose to leave us because we know we're awesome and and we need to figure out and that's why you say things like the worst thing you could hear is to find out that you're not awesome you know what I'm saying like you know it's not that simple or's more like a handful of weeks ago, we got a call from a girl who, I don't know if you listened to this episode, it was a very unique story of a girl

who essentially ghosted her friend because she was a victim of assault. Oh, yes, yes. I remember that. And this friend was friends with this guy and instead of like facing it head-on she just removed herself in the situation and it came back up because that friend she found out was diagnosed with cancer etc etc right the only reason i bring that up is because that was obviously a very extreme and an example of why but like the point

is who knows what the fucking reason is right and i'm assuming you know it wasn't you or whatever and and so you don't really know but she did choose it wasn't the nice thing for her to do correct yeah and all but the bigger point is, is you finding closure for yourself. Right. Because after five years, like what is it? What is it that this person say that's going to, it's like,

you need to hear from her and be like, I'll be honest. I found you kind of annoying. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I don't need to hear that. You were kind of a drag at parties. Yeah.

You know, I think that if I'm being brutally honest with myself, what I want to hear is that it was because of that boyfriend that I had and it wasn't because of me, which is also my ego. Yeah. And even if that is the answer, five years later, why do you

want to be friends with this person? I don't even know that I want to be her friend. There you go. All the less reason to give a shit. Well, there you go. I don't even know that I want to be her friend. So I guess, yeah. Why do I want all the less reason to give a shit? Right. You're right. You know,

and that's this energy you're investing into this person still five years later. That's a good point. It is a very good point. I hate to break it to you, but some people don't like, that's why I called you. Some people don't like you. Yeah, I know. Some people don't like... No, that's why I called you. Some people don't like you.

Yeah, I know. Some people don't like me. That's not stupid. No, I know. My ego. You can't be your most authentic self and be liked by everyone. That's very true. That's very true.

That's not an excuse to be an asshole all the time and not look in the mirror and ask yourself, how could I be a better version of myself? But you, you know, and it'd be one thing to give a shit in the first couple of weeks and be sad and be like, why the fuck haven't you like, but like eventually you, at some point in the, in the early on, you accepted that you weren't going to hear from her, that she was gone, right? Right. And at that point, you need to start finding the closure for yourself

and stop relying on her for closure. Yeah. I think I always just expected her to say something. And then when she never did, I was like, oh. Okay, so I guess I got to figure this out. It's a little weird that you guys follow each other and she liked a photo isn't it i mean i try not to look at you jumping at the look at you jumping at the opportunity to be like let's just like let's let's talk about how fucking yeah i know i'm in my in a twisted way i was like it's an olive branch but then i

had to you know center myself it's just instagram It's not that serious. I mean, either way, what it is, like you, I mean, I've said this before, your time and your energy is not infinite. That's, yeah. Yeah, wasting it on this, I suppose, is not worth it. So we can sit here and gossip for 45 minutes how fucking weird it is for a picture of you and we can dissect why, but you could be learning a second language right now you're right it's a good point so yeah no it makes sense instead of i mean if you want to do anything do something other than guessing and wondering you could yeah you could unfollow her you could dm her and be like hey

stranger you know i don't know like i know she's got like kids now and stuff it's weird yeah so it's like we are just different people at this point yeah yeah no you're right or don't follow just accept it just really i don't know yeah sure well what yeah that's a good point you're right that's why I called you alright actually really quick I was going to say that boyfriend that I had previously mentioned

it was real bad for a long time and I actually was going to call you then about that relationship but I knew what you'd say so I just decided

not to I wasn't ready to do what I assumed you were going to tell me so I just didn't call did you eventually do it? I did. Yeah.

We did it eight years and I left him last year. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I'll stop wasting your time and focus your energy on more productive things. Yes, you're absolutely right. All right. Well, thank you very much. Take care.

You too. Bye-bye. How's it going? Great. So I'm Jillian. I'm 24 and from Canada. How can I help Jillian? Okay, so I'm having concerns about

if my relationship's compatible, I guess. I don't know if I'm in my own head or what it is, but, uh, cause we're really happy. We communicate well, things are good, but, um, we're just really different and we fight about like really, really stupid things. Um, and I just, I want it to work and I don't know if I'm just kind of being a jerk and the things I'm not willing to bend on or if it's just... Yeah. You're 24, how old is he?

29. Is this your first boyfriend, second, third, fourth? Where are we at? No, it would be like my third serious relationship. It's not like your first love or anything like that? No. What are you fighting over? Stupid stuff. relationship all right so like it's not like your first love or anything like that no and what are

you fighting over like stupid stuff like maybe it's not stupid more yeah like who's doing more around the house or like like being late for things or like um a big issue we had was like when we first met he told me he didn't want to have kids and I was like well I do so like I'm done like I'm I I love you but I don't I don't love you more than giving up that dream and like he's like no I don't I didn't mean it like I'm willing to do it if I'm with the right person I just meant I never envisioned it for myself but I think ever since we had that fight I like I'm like are you just saying that because you don't want to break up? Are you going to resent me someday if I want to have kids five years from now? And then I think now I'm overplaying everything.

Everything we disagree on, I'm like, okay, we're different. It's not going to work. So you don't have resolution on this very important non-negotiable that you have. Yeah, all I get is, he says, I'll do it for you. I love you. I want to be with you. I'm maturing. I'm opening up to the idea.

So when I was ready to just end, he was like, no, I want to be with you. I don't want to lose you. But part of me thinks that's a lie, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Well, either way, what's important is that your feeling about the situation is not great to have. And correct me if I'm wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. Even if he's telling the truth that he is willing to have a kid because he wants to be with you,

I guess in some weird, potentially toxic way that's romantic. But I'd also be willing to bet that you would prefer to have a child with someone who wants to be a father. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing is I don't want to feel like I'm forcing him into it. But it's not something I'm willing to do. I'm guessing you don't want to raise a father. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing is I don't want to feel like I'm forcing him into it, but it's not something I'm willing to do. I'm guessing you don't want to raise a kid by yourself. No. Are you nagging at him about things that he's not doing around the house or vice versa? It's me. I'm all... You feel like you're nagging him.

I do. Yeah. And even if it's something as small as like, he didn't let me know someone was coming over, but I'm like, we live together. I'm sitting here like wearing basically nothing, doing my homework. Like if your guys are coming through the door, can you let me know? Like, it's just like, we're just very different. He's very like free, go with the flow. And I'm a big planner. Okay. And that's in itself, not a problem. but what i'm curious about let me ask you a question i just want a simple yes or no do you think he is in more inconsiderate than considerate as a person i want to say yes and i know you wanted yes or no but once he realizes he's considerate but he has to be told okay always majority of the time when he says he has to be told like the never you guys live together yeah

and so this thing of inviting people over without being hey babe chuck's coming over like of inviting people over without being, hey, babe, Chuck's coming over. That's a normal thing? Has he ever been like, has he ever let you know? Out of 10 times, how many times is he not telling you? Oh, like seven or eight.

And it hasn't really gotten better? No, we've talked about it. We've talked about it and he recognizes that he needs to fix it but i think his brain's just so used to working that way come on he's an adult yeah i guess and i say this is someone who can be absent-minded in my head and sometimes aloof and as a result can be accused of being inconsiderate in moments but like if I'm dating someone, which I am,

and living with someone, which I am, and I guess I can't relate to this because I would never just be like, make plans with someone for them to come over and not tell Natalie. Yeah. I chose to live with her I chose to share a house with her

and therefore I have to respect that choice for both of us because we share this thing you know and so if you're going to choose to live with someone you have to like understand the consequences of our choices and the consequences of that choice is like it's not just your place. And being absent-minded once, I'm like, oh, fuck.

I don't know why I didn't tell you that. It was so rude of me. It was so inconsiderate. But that's understandable. But you're saying that every time, you're like, bro, what the fuck? And he's like, oh, I'm sorry. If he's always apologizing for the same stuff over and over,

that doesn't make him not considerate. That just makes him good at apologizing to get you to back off. There's a difference between being considerate and sometimes people just apologize because they know it'll shut you up. And if you keep having to apologize for the same thing, that means they're not sorry. That just means they want you to shut up. I want you to stop nagging. Not necessarily something you would want out of a potential co-parent.

something you would want out of a potential co-parent. So even if this guy was dying to be a father, if I were you, I would be like, fuck, I'm going to raise this kid by myself. As soon as I have my first kid, I will already have two kids. You know, maybe the reason why he doesn't want to be a dad is because he's still interested in being a boy. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. That's a good line. That's a good line. Yeah. Like it's, it's just frustrating because we're really great on a lot of other levels.

Like we communicate well, you know, like things are good. And what do you mean by you communicate well? Describe to me, describe to me a time in which you guys communicated well. I think just about problems. So not about what we're doing and not about our plans. Give me an example. So sometimes you go to an interview and they're like, describe a time and they don't want you to describe what you would do.

I want to hear what you did. So I went to him because I was really, really overwhelmed with just my busy workload and said, you're not doing anything. Like, I really need you to step it up. Please just like hear me out. And he like got a little defensive at first. And he's like, well, I mow the lawn and I do this. And I was like, but that's not helping me.

That's doing something like once every three weeks. Like it's not taking off my stress load. And he then like calmed down and was like, you know what? You're right. I totally see what you're saying. And then I actually saw change from that. So I feel like I can tell him how I'm feeling and he listens and he appreciates it. But then I think you're right that the things he maybe disagrees with, he's just telling me what I want to hear. Okay. So you're dating someone who's a bit of a boy who's not a total dick yeah i guess you know yeah that's the thing is i i do really think

he's just really immature and i know i'm still young, but I've lived with somebody twice now. Like I'm not saying I know everything, but I'm not new to this and I'm just like, he's 29, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What's his relationship with his parents?

They're involved. We see them quite a bit, but they have no say in anything he does. Like he's very like, do they do anything for like, do they do things for him that like, how independent is he? It's,

that's the weird thing. It's very independent. Like I've never seen his mom as being somebody that like takes over. Like doing his laundry or anything like that. Yeah. No, no. Like very,

very independent and really like raised to like go to work do this you know so that's what's weird to me i don't know if it's because he's lived alone for so long now that it's just not clicking or or what it is you're you know it's it's you're kind of like in this relationship purgatory because i get where you're coming from you're like you know what i don't know he's a You're like, you know what? He's a pretty decent guy. I'm not trying to be a dick when you say everything's pretty good, even though I sometimes will challenge people on that.

It sounds like, yeah, you have a pretty okay relationship. Yeah, that's the thing. We have fun together. We get along. I think people settle for okay too much. I do. I think we live in a society that promotes us and makes us feel like, especially women, that we need to settle down and start having kids

at a specific age. I understand there's a biological element to it. I get it. I think we settle for okay a lot. I think we stay in relationships that are just okay because they're not necessarily bad. And I understand that relationships are hard to find and it's hard to find people we connect with.

It's not easy. And I understand that dating is a challenge. And sometimes you're just like, fuck, I don't like, I'll stay with this okay because like, fuck, I don't want to deal with like 50 shitty dates and like, ugh. So I think people settle, but I I'm confident in saying that the chances of him drastically turning into a different person at this point are slim to none yeah that's what I'm worried about is I think he's

willing to try and work on things with me like I think he cares about me enough I just don't know that I don't know if it's like so far in him that this is just the way he is that I need either accepted or not. Having to remind him to have basic decency and consideration for the person he's sharing a house with who he says he loves. And you have to constantly remind him to give you a heads up if he's inviting his friends over for like to play video games or like watch the big game yeah that's not great and it no you if you feel like a nag then you like you hate yourself a little bit and then it creates animosity and that's just shit that is the shit that just only gets worse when you get more comfortable you settle down in a marriage and you have kids and you get stressed out and then a lot of your very average relationship is set up for major

disappointment when you start introducing kids, given the things that you have described. Yeah. That's what I'm worried about is like, if we do have kids, because that's been obviously such a big topic for us, like I don't want to have to remind him to pick them up from school and like stupid stuff. Like, but then I feel stupid for even thinking about it because we're so far away from that. Like we've only been together for like three years. We've got a little bit of ways to go before we're there. So I don't know if I'm jumping ahead or if it's valid, I guess. Both, but you're appropriately jumping ahead because don't know if I'm jumping ahead or if it's valid, I guess. Both, but you're appropriately jumping ahead because wanting to have kids is a reasonable non-negotiable. The fact that he was like, I don't want any was a reason to give you pause.

It's great that he was like, oh, I'll do it for you. But you want to want someone to want to be a parent because being a parent is hard and takes an immense amount of responsibility and self-sacrifice. And there's a lot of people who have kids they're not super excited about and become deadbeat parents and aren't helpful. And these are just like the writing is on the wall. And that's why you're skipping forward ahead. And the meantime, in the current moment, he is giving you a bunch of reasons to legitimately be concerned about his willingness and capability of being a like a helpful partner because he can't even be a helpful partner when you don't have a kid to take care of yeah i know he's either wildly inconsiderate or just a bit of a dummy that he can't remember to like say hey babe eric's coming over you know so like yeah that's that's the thing because i'm i'm torn because i

feel guilty because i think of like other things he'll do for me or things when they're going good things are really good but the good does not make up for the bad and when the bad is bad it doesn't matter you know like it just it's not no that's fair it's just it's just not gonna matter how many times he brings you flowers if you can never be considerate in fact you'll end up hating flowers you'll end up hating i'm sorry you know that I'm saying but seriously though like you know yeah that's the thing is I can I've already felt me starting to like resent him for some things but then I always get out of it like then I'm always like no I'm being too hard on him I expect too much because I do know you definitely don't expect too much you don't you don't expect too

much yeah okay that's good to know I'm tough, but it sounds like you're dating a very average, ordinary guy who's kind of self-centered and inconsiderate. And he's gotten away with it so far. You're giving 80 and he's giving 20. And you're trying to convince yourself that the 20 he's giving is not bad it's pretty good he doesn't hit me you know shit like that yeah like he doesn't like swear at me and so like the 20 i get is you know okay and like i'm assuming you assume you always expected more for yourself so yeah and that's the thing is like, I grew up with like my dad, who was so good to my mom and like took care of everything. Didn't need to be asked twice. Like,

I don't like, and then I started to wonder, like, is that what my problem is? Like, do I have high expectations? Cause I think I hope so. Perfect. I don't know. I hope so. And again, like why people settle for okay and ordinary all the time, hire fast, fire slow, hire slow, fire fast. You've hired slow. You've gotten to know him. Yeah, you moved in. Maybe whatever.

But like, I don't know. I think you should fire this guy. I know, but I don't think it's that easy. Yeah, it's awkward. It's difficult. But like, you know what's harder? Having a very challenging husband who's unhelpful with kids. And that's the thing is i keep thinking maybe he'll change and marrying divorce is harder marrying the wrong guy sticking up fighting like putting up with a marriage you want out just but you've had like those are all way harder

than being 24 and single and having an awkward breakup or moving out like that's not that hard and having an awkward breakup or moving out. Like, that's not that hard. It's inconvenient. But like, you're, like, you're, yeah. But then is there anybody that is like that? Like, I feel like I'm just gonna be unhappy with everyone. If I, is there anyone who's like consider enough to be like,

hey, babe, do you mind if my friend comes over? No, okay, I get it. Like, you have, you have to study or like, you know, we'll go to his house or like, what do you mean? Of course you could find that Okay Okay You have to be willing. I think you have to be willing when you start dating again to fire faster I think you I think you keep these standards

And when you are dating again, stop worrying about being liked up front and setting your expectations after the fact. My guess is that's probably what you did. You met this guy, you were worried about if he liked you, then you got him to like you, and then you started setting boundaries after you got him. Yeah, definitely. And set boundaries earlier on at the risk of them not liking you, because then you won't be wasting time with people who aren't interested in respecting your boundaries. But too many people, and often in this case, women, only bring up their boundaries after they're in the relationship. And then they try to make those boundaries work. And they're like, well, I got this guy. And I don't like, then they give them all this time and space. And then they feel like,

I'm the bad guy you know because like you know because you guys said i love you three weeks in yeah yeah i know it's i know that i definitely did that i came off as like oh i don't care everything's good but and i think a lot changed we moved in together too like when we had our own places and we were taking care of our own places i didn't really pay attention to what he did and what he didn't do at his own house. But now it's just a little different. There is zero chance that you can't find something better for yourself. And there's nothing, I'm not trying to rip on him or whatever. I'm sure there's something better for him, you know? But like, this isn't, and I don't know when

you're going to find it and you might have to go through some bad dates and it might be a couple of years out, but it sounds like you're investing in yourself. You're going to school, you're going through, you get your master's like, great to keep doing that, you know? But you're going to most likely be settling for ordinary. And a lot of people do. You're not guaranteed true love. You have to go out and make it happen. And you're not guaranteed an amazing marriage. You have to be willing to take risks and say no to average and ordinary and maintain your high expectations and not doubt them and not feel bad about expecting basic things that ordinary men. I i mean we talked and he was like i get it now

i'll change and i did see differences in it and then right back to i just don't know it hasn't been long enough like we talked about it a couple weeks ago i mean for the third time and i've noticed it over the past couple weeks but i just don't know how long that's going to last, I guess. Well, see how long it lasts. And when it doesn't, be done. I know. I'm just not good at that. I've never broken up with somebody. I've wanted to break up with somebody,

but I just wait for them to do it. There you go. Well, that's a you problem. I know it is. Costing you, you know, it's costing your time. I know. I just feel like I kind of threw all my eggs in one basket but i like we have we have our home so what you're 24 like all your everything

you're describing is a mild inconvenience oh i know i know there's bigger problems i could have for sure i just i don't want to break up i want to find a way to work past it but i think you're right that it it's if that's not natural for him, I don't know that how he's just going to miraculously start doing it someday. Not. I just had a question, which was,

what is it about breaking up with him? Is there anything in particular that feels daunting or that really feels like the thing that's stopping you from doing it? Well, I don't know. It sounds like it's him. She's never broken up with anyone. Yeah.

Like, that's what I mean. Like breakups as like a general like what is it about that element of having to is it like having to reject someone is it like the finality of the decision I think I just really I really don't like being alone

and I know that's my own issue I think it's the fear of regret it is you're constantly worried if like it sounds like it sounds what it is is you're constantly worried if like maybe you know it's yeah it sounds like it sounds what it is is you're doubting your own boundaries and like for whatever reason you've convinced yourself that your expectations aren't valid yeah and i just i've dated worse people and i just feel like this is the best relationship i've had the best connection I've had with somebody.

And I don't want to just throw it all away by not trying. And I also just don't, I don't want to find an apartment. I don't want to... Just because you dated a one and found a three doesn't mean you should date a three. Okay. Yeah, I guess. But that is your logic. And I'm convinced that you were definitely, when you were dating when single, you were not

setting up for an expectations and boundaries and expectations. You were only trying to get them to like you. And you started bringing up your boundaries and expectations after you were in the relationship, but committed to the relationship and therefore forcing these boundaries and then passively dismissing your own boundaries and expectations when they didn't line up or didn't respect them. So stop doing that. I know. That definitely happens. And be okay with being alone and be okay with being single. That's some things you need to work on yourself. That's good for you to be able to acknowledge that you don't like being single.

And now you are willing to accept ordinary for fear of being alone. Oh, yeah. And i've done that like forever and you're only 24 do you really want to be 36 and just fucking hate the person you're legally bounded to i know i know i i just i don't hate him yet i think that's what it is i still love him good what a great time to break up with someone when you don't hate them yet. I think that's what it is. I still love them. Good. What a great time to break up with someone when you don't hate them, but you just know they're not for you. You just listen, no hard feelings. I mean, I know there are going to be hard feelings, but you don't have to hate them. Yeah. That's fair. Okay.

I know I'm 100% right about this. And I applaud you for admitting that you don't think you'll take my advice. But when this episode comes out, I think you should listen to it over and over. And I think if you don't, you are going to regret it. And it's just a matter of how much you're going to be mad at yourself three or four years from now. Because, yeah, you're settling and you're wasting your time. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you're settling and you're wasting your time yeah yeah i i guess you're right go check out better help get some therapy talk about it work through this these are like normal human things that people you're not alone in these thoughts and feelings and something you should work through and you should be okay with being alone i I know that. I know that's a big problem I have for sure.

All right. We'll work on it. Invest in yourself. Okay. Thank you. All right. I wish you luck. I hope you, uh, I hope, uh, I hope you don't waste your time. Okay. Thank you. All right. Take care. Thanks for calling. You too. All right. Thank you. How's it going? Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? What's your name?

I'm good. My name is Kayla. I'm 28. How can I help you? Well, I emailed you today. Um, long story short,

I haven't been in a relationship for a long time, like four years. I'm a single mom of four and twins when I was like 19. So I started pretty early, but, um, long story short, um, started seeing this guy.

Um, and when I started seeing him, like story short started seeing this guy and when I started seeing him like to be honest with you the only reason I hung out with him is because my sister

like gets a bad anxiety about hanging out with new people and she was hanging out with this guy and the guy I'm seeing happens to be his friend and I just happened to have him

on my Snapchat and like I had a lot of conversations with him so I was like you know what I'll just invite him and like

we'll just make it a thing. Your sister gets excited about you hanging out with people? No, she gets anxiety about her dates. So her date that night was with this guy's friend. Gotcha. So I just was like, I'll just ask his friend out and then we'll just make it a double date

kind of situation. Okay. So I thought that he was 24 because that's what his dating site said and anyway we're hanging out and my sister's friend dude whatever was 21 and i was like talking crap and we were drinking and stuff and like saying he was young and stuff you know and anyways his friend shows up and he brought up that i was talking crap and he was like oh well how old do you think he is and i was like well 24 because that's like what his dating site said you know and he was like oh well how old do you think he is and i was like well 24 because that's like what his dating site said you know and he was like ha no actually he's 21 so i was like

because like personally with me having four kids and being 28 like 21 for me like not to like be age biased but like 21 for me isn't typically like a good yeah it would sound like a giant waste of your time but right right well, he's a liar. Right. Well, it was on his Facebook dating. So I guess his age on his Facebook was older than what? Because his Tinder, I guess, said 21. I don't know. But either way, either or.

So that happened. And so the first night I met him, I was like, I'm not going to talk to you after tonight. I was like, you're 21. So I just had a good night. And my sister left, and he ended up still hanging out with me. like so i just had a good night and like my sister left and he ended up still hanging out with me and so i just like word vomited and spilled like all my trash stuff in life you know just like you know you can like was this like literally the

first day you've been out in four years yeah like well no no i've dated around i i have dated around and i've taken a break like this summer but i have a lot of things in my life and it's hard to find somebody that like wants to be a part of that, you know? So you're just, he's there, he's listening, you're talking. Yeah. And I'm drunk. I'm like, you're 21. I'm probably never going to see you again. So I don't care. I was like, this is my moment to shine. And he was listening. So I was like, you know, it's fine. So we did that, hung out the first night, whatever. Ended up coming, wanted to hang out with me the second night. And so long or short, that was two months ago.

So he's been doing this for two months, hanging out with me every day. He would like talk about how he wants to like meet the kids and stuff like which he hasn't. And the catch is, is he's leaving Arizona for the winter. And like, when I when I first met him, he told me that he was leaving on Halloween because his lease was up and like his his dad lived down there and he hadn't seen his dad a whole lot in his life. So when I first met him, I already knew that he was leaving on Halloween. And so we only had like 30 days, so I didn't really care. And then he started pushing his time back. And then it was like,

oh, I'm not going to leave until middle of November. But then also the kicker is when he leaves, he wants to be single. So I don't know how to handle this situation because I hang out with you every day. You spend all your time with me. So you guys are dating. You guys are together.

We're technically dating, yeah. Because it's not like what you want to call official, I guess. But I met his mom. What do you call it? I mean, I would call it dating. If either of you were to have sex with someone else. Oh, yeah. I'd be livid.

That's the thing, too. He says that he doesn't want to see anybody now and like he's not seeing anybody while he's here and that like he doesn't think he's gonna find anyone better than me and all this stuff but it's like he was like i feel like i have to go there alone and not have anything that's totally committed because he thinks that he could fuck it up while he's in arizona so then that's a red flag because it's like, what if you get fucked up in Arizona, you could just randomly bang someone. What happens if you go out with your boys here? You know,

like it's the same thing, I think like. Totally. But like, what has he shown you? You met him. He was 21. Right.

What has he shown you in these past several months? Other than like, you know what I'm saying is like, sure. Like you can be 21 and be nice. He can be good and bad. on you in these past several months. Other than like, what I'm saying is like, sure, you can be 21 and be nice. He can be good and bad. He can be generally polite. You can enjoy hanging out with him. He can be fun. And he can do all those things while

never actually giving you examples on a regular basis of his maturity level about the fact that he is in a situation to date a mother of four who's seven years his senior and

what does he want to do when he grows up? What's he want to be? It sounds like he still has some family issues he's working through. Dating you is like a whole family. Yeah, and dating you is like a whole family. Yeah.

And there's a power. There's a challenge wanting to prove to the older woman that he is mature enough. If I were you, I would spend a lot of time... If this was a relationship you were super serious about considering,

I would spend a lot of time asking him what his dreams and aspirations are. And see, that's what I have done. We've had this conversation four times. Before, because I emailed you almost a month ago. And so we've had more conversations since I emailed you. When it first came up, it came up and we were only seeing each other for a couple of weeks. And at that point, it was, Hey, I'm going to go there single. And I want you to be single while i'm gone and like when i get back like i

mean hopefully we can reconnect and he wanted me to fly out there and see him and stuff like to like hang out a few times when he's gone because it's like he planned to be gone for like four months i guess and so that's when we first had a conversation but the second conversation we had now it's now it's more shifted towards like i'm gonna be a better stepdad when i come back from this trip because my dad's going to show me some things that I need to see. And then he's saying things like, I can only go for a couple weeks and come back.

Let's slow down for a second. When he says, I'm going to be a better stepdad for... He hasn't even met your kids yet, correct? No. He asks about them all the time. Sure. Yeah, that's great. And he's just like, I'm going to go hang out with my dad for, what, a period of time and magically become

a different person? I guess. That's what he's thinking. I guess. I don't know. Sure. But what do you think about when he says that? I mean, if I take my feelings out of the situation and look at it realistically, it makes sense. It what? Yeah. Because it makes sense. Because

if I was 21 again and I was going to get up with somebody that had like what i have going on and in my mind it can kind of make sense but i don't want to like look at it like that and think it's a red flag that i'm missing too because i feel like maybe i'm being naive but like if i'm being selfish and i was that young again like only i feel like i could only say this because i grew up fast so like i feel like i can say it because i know what it's like to have to grow up that fast and like he hasn't seen the hard part of my life. He's only seen the easy parts of me. And I've already told him that I was like,

you've only seen, you know, like, and then he talks about like wanting to move in with me. And like that, when he gets back, like he would want to like look down that Avenue. And like,

he like asked about my son all the time. Like he got my son, this Oscar Mayer wiener whistle that he got from work one day and like gave it to me to give to him because like, he hasn't met the kids yet, obviously. And I don't know. It's just like he always thinks about the kids and asks about them. And I haven't met anybody that's actually

interested in that part of my life. Which is nice and I totally get and empathize with why that seems attractive, but it sounds like he is acknowledging not only to you but to himself that he still has some growing up to do. Right.

And I do appreciate him being honest about it. We've had a conversation multiple times and he could just say, hey, or lie to me or whatever, because I wouldn't know anything if he really wanted to. Well, he's weirdly trying to prove himself to you. Oh, you think so? I guess I didn't do it like that. Well, sure. I mean, again, you you have, just by default, and it doesn't have to

always be that way, but by default, you have a little bit of power over him. This assumption of like you're older than him, you have kids. I mean, 21-year-old me

couldn't have imagined being a father of four. And so when you are in a romantic relationship with someone who's doing something you couldn't imagine doing, right? It's doing something you couldn't imagine doing, right?

It's hard. Well, not only that, but there's a bit of power. And again, power can shift and it can change, right? But I'm just saying you got to acknowledge it. And he's definitely going to be trying to prove himself to you. He has some maturing to do,

which he seems like he can now. It's just, it's just a big mess. That's what I'm saying. It's like such a big mess. And then like, I've met his whole family, besides his dad,

cause he's in Arizona. But like, I like hung out with his brother. He seems like a nice guy, right? Yeah, sure. Gosh.

And it's like, I don't know. And then, and then it's like, I've also like my last relationship like was so bad. Like, and that's another thing I'm, I'm battling too.

Cause like that one, I left PTSD with like, not only did I leave with four kids, but also like whirlwind of emotions, you know, just don't want to be a fool, you know? And I don't like, and then he's like,

wants me to come and fly out there. Like I would look dumb as fuck if I flew out and saw somebody and he also couldn't commit to the fact that he's not going to bang other people. That's my biggest takeaway. That's the only thing I'm mad about is that he can't say that he wouldn't mess around with other people like i don't need it to be on facebook i don't need there to be this great i mean i get why you're frustrated about it but like you also have to take your frustrations and see it as like some clarity and i've already told him too like the last conversation we had about it i told him i was like it's gonna go one of two

ways for me and i was like, you're going to leave and you want to be single when you leave and that's fine. Do whatever. I was like, then I'm going to do that here and you're just going to have to hope and pray I'm single when I get back and I'm not flying out there. You seem practical. Even if he was doing everything that you wanted him to do,

was committed to not sleeping with other people and I'm going to go to Florida but I want you to still be my girlfriend like you acknowledge that there are a potential a mountain of obstacles and challenges that being with this guy includes that you're not even aware of even if you're getting everything you, you acknowledge that you had a toxic relationship before, never fun and easy, and there's always residual effects to that. And you found, minus his age and all that, a relatively nice guy who, compared to your ex,

there's a lot of things to like. But as you acknowledge, there's still a lot of obstacles and red flags. Not necessarily meaning he's a bad guy, but just the fact that it's still a lot of obstacles and red flags, not necessarily meaning he's a bad guy, but just the fact that it's a very complicated situation of which you really have no clarity around. And it just sounds like being better than your ex is not your only barometer.

You know what I'm saying? If being better than your ex was like than anyone's better than your ex, for this to work, it would have to be the closest thing to perfect. Right. If you're just looking at the, he's 21, I have four kids,

just that alone. Anyone can just acknowledge that. For this to work, there are some hurdles. You would have to be a skeptic, and every step of the way, he's just hitting hitting home runs just knocking out of the park with how he's and he's not and and you acknowledge and you empathize with why he's not because it'd be normal why it's a lot like it's a lot but i also but you're not you're

just not listening you're not listening to the obvious right yeah right right so the point is for you to pursue this things you should be shocked by his ability to handle things that a normal 21 year old shouldn't but he is showing you that he is in fact a 21 year old guy right and a 21 year old guy could still be nice and like you can have fun with a 20 year old guy and pretty decent and acknowledge that like he wants to be a good father someday. He's not a boy, but he is only 21. But he is showing you that he is not the exception to the rule. Even if he didn't go, that would be a reaction to his disappointment.

So that would him being reacted to not wanting to lose you. But we do that often. We'll find ourselves in these relationships. We'll try to set'll we'll the people we date will show these red flags and these red flags might not necessarily be like how toxic they are it might just be you know red flag of coming from different places in your life or different family values or different religions or different living in different like you know some of our red flags are just kind of who we are in situations, but either way, the red flags are there. Right. And so, and so sometimes we like to ignore red flags or we dismiss them and react to like, oh, well, I will, I don't want to do that. And we'll convince ourselves not to want to do what, you know, the truth and truth is

he wants to go to Florida. He wants to be single. He wants to spend time with his dad. It's almost like he's saying he wants to grow up. So even if he doesn't go, that's still what he wants to do. That's what I'm saying. That's why I told him to go. I've never once told him to stay. I've always told him.

I was like, bro, I can't be the reason you stay. And I told his mama and his grandma, all that stuff. Because even his family doesn't want him to go. And his mom and stuff has told me at the bar, hey, I want him to stay and stuff. And she looks at me bewildered every time he talks like going and I don't say anything. But it's like, last thing I need is to be in resentment.

On top of everything else that me and him have going on, that's the last thing. Listen, sometimes we find out that people aren't right for us and they don't have to be toxic pieces of shit to end it. I think sometimes we're so used to like be toxic pieces of shit to like end it i think sometimes we're so used to like oh we gotta fight for it and not until like we realize we're with this toxic person who makes us miserable and we finally end it like we can sometimes date someone and like have it all or all be like 80 good or 90 good but that 10 or 15 20 is like some

important shit that is going to like create bigger problems down the road. So I think you just need to accept that while this guy might be a nice guy and might be the most fun you've had with a guy in a long time, he can still not be your guy. And you should listen to what he is saying and doing and just have a clean break without being complicated and not giving him an ultimatum

or whatever. Just, just say, I thought about the situation. I think it's probably just best. We just move on. And like, I think you're great. And you know, and my guess is he will react to that and he will claim to be willing to do some crazy ass shit to not lose you. Oh no, I know. He's already said like, well, we're in this together. We're not in this together. We're in this together with what mean all your other side bitches. Like, I mean, I don't understand. That's, I know. He's already said we're in this together. We're not in this together. We're in this together with what, me and all your other side bitches? I mean, I don't understand. That's what I'm saying. You know the answer and you're just ignoring

the obvious. I know. And you're going to be disappointed. Yeah. I kind of knew that in the beginning. That's the thing. But sometimes we, knowing that we're going to be sad when we end a relationship, we will look at that as a reason not to end the relationship. You can't avoid being sad.

You're not going to avoid missing him. You're not going to avoid being disappointed that it ended. He's giving you a bunch of reasons of why he is not the exception to the rule. You need to acknowledge that you chose to date a 21-year-old guy and you have four kids and he might not you gave him a chance to prove he was the exception of the rule emotionally and from a mature standpoint and he is showing you that he's not and some of that responsibility falls on you right you know the best thing to do is not be petty and not be resentful for the fact that he i know that's my toxic stuff that i'm trying to work here you know because. I was petty level 100

all the time for so many years. It's good that you're acknowledging it. Oh, 100%. I'm always at my sister like, hey, so red flag. Really trying not to do this right now. The healthy thing to do is just acknowledge that this is probably for the best and to not be petty. The worst

thing you could do is make him feel bad. Right. Or make him feel like he did something wrong or show him your frustration because that will trigger him to respond in a way that's not sincere or genuine or something that he's capable of. And you gave him a chance to be

the exception to the rule and he wasn't. And that's fine. Right. Okay, cool. cool well thank you I appreciate it all right yeah thanks best of luck all right take care bye thanks for listening guys don't forget to check out Wednesday's episode with Charlie

Jordan sending your questions at asknick at castme.com cast with a K we're back tomorrow with our Bachelorette recap have a great week.