The Viall Files - E350 Bachelorette Recap With Amanda Hirsch

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

We’re breaking down all the Bachelorette drama with Amanda Hirsch, the creator of the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. We kick things off with Bach hot goss, diving into drama between Tyler Cameron and Hannah Brown and wondering if he was setup for a paparazzi photo-op. We then talk about Blake’s statement that Katie emotionally cheated and the drama with the picture Katie posted of her with John on the plane. Diving into the episode, we talk hometowns and whether connecting with the family has any impact on the outcome not. We discuss Nayte’s maturity, his paddle-boarding habit, and if he’s really ready to take the next step into a full, mature relationship. We also talk about how Joe is photogenic, how the rose ceremony made everyone nervous, and trying to get a read from Michelle on who will make it to the end.  “I don’t see Joe making a podcast after this” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today!   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: RumHaven: Discover more recipes that will help you Sip into Paradise at http://www.RumHaven.com Chime: Get started today at http://www.Chime.com/VIALL Huzzah: Get 20% off your order by going to http://www.DrinkHuzzah.com and using code VIALL Tommy John: During Tommy John’s Cyber Monday Sale get 20% off site wide plus free shipping at http://www.TommyJohn.com/VIALL   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @notskinnybutnotfat See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're crazy. I'm your host, Nick, and I am joined by Allie and Amanda. And we have a very special guest with us today. The wonderfully funny Amanda Hirsch, also known as Not Skinny But Not Fat Instagram and podcast. Did I get that all right? You did. You did, Nick. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Good to have you. We have a great episode for you before we get into all things Bachelor Nation and hometowns.

Be sure to keep listening after this episode for a fantastic interview with the one and only Charlie Jordan. with the one and only Charlie Jordan, a fascinating woman of a really interesting background, talking about growing up in a Mormon family and then becoming a world-famous DJ and swimsuit model and just a woman of many talents and skills and a very fascinating person. Really enjoyed my conversation with Charlie. So keep listening, unless you're listening to this

Tuesday night while you go-getters out there. Then hold on. Then hold on, wake up, and then come back to us and press play. Anything else that we need to cover before we

get into... Do you want to start with some tea? Sure. Some Bachelor Nation tea, everybody? It was a big hit last week. Ellie wanted to talk about the mess that is Bachelor Nation. There's a lot going on. We talked about Hannah Brown's

God Bless This Mess, The 12 Days of Messy. I feel like both of those have updates. Tyler Cameron has kind of mentioned a little bit about what she said about him in the book. What did she say about him in the book? She said of mentioned a little bit about what she said about him in the book what did she say about him in the book she said i have a screenshot of what she said in the actual book um she said a lot nick yeah did you read the book i mean no don't i mean don't

you know exaggerate but but she it was kind of it was kind of all i I mean, she spilled the tea. I feel like she, there are a lot of Bachelor Nation books, but Hannah Brown brought it with some geeks. So like, do we like that? Or is it just like? I think she's giving people what they want and she's going to sell books. Yeah, okay. I agree.

No, but she told E.T. ahead of the book that Tyler Cameron's last poetic words to me were well if you rock with me you rock with me if you don't you don't I wish I was making that up that's what she said sounds like something Tyler would say and then Tyler was like I've got

receipts too he told that on the Bella's podcast he was like I have receipts too but then he was like I wish her nothing but the best I you know she has to sell booksipts too. But then he was like, I wish her nothing but the best. She has to sell books. So she has to tease stuff. He was very pro her business move. So he kind of took the high road. I feel like you

could tell though by his face. It's not that he's a man of many words, but you could tell that he was kind of... I don't think he liked that because what she said in the book, I'm just going to add on because I read the whole thing. I mean mean that whole excerpt about him is that hannah was a lot of people kind of made fun of it because she said she she thought she was like breaking the news says that he broke her heart and i think people in america kind of figured that when like we saw him with

her and then a day later we saw him with gigi Hadid right yeah so people figured like oh shit remember those paparazzi pictures outside her apartment yeah that like seemed incredibly staged seemed incredibly staged but she says in the book this was after like they spent a night they didn't have sex they were just like together and cuddling and like you know being together but she paints a picture that he was kind of a dick so i feel like he should he probably is pissed because she said that they reconnected when she went to him to quarantine we know the quarantine crew right um he she said that there were days where he didn't even talk to her there that he kind of looked at her like she was just like his annoying little sister. And then basically ghosted her for Gigi.

I mean, if you're going to get ghosted, you might as well be Gigi indeed. Hold on. I actually remember I talked to Tyler Cameron after the late night rendezvous. And I know he thought he was set up for a photo op. I do know that. Because he was just like, how did someone know I was there?

Right. I feel like her early relationship with her current boyfriend, there was a lot of photos at the beginning too. I feel like she might not be opposed to photos. She's got a hard working team. Yeah. But you can always tell when, if you're in photos that you look good.

Because paparazzi photos, if you're not in on it, you're in mid-bite or you have a really weird face. It's typically not a very flattering photo unless you're like rolling up to Craig's all dressed up already knowing. Like paparazzi just sit outside of Craig's. So like if you're going to dinner there, you know they're going to be there. So there's a little bit of prep.

But if you're like on the streets of LA and some paparazzi like finds you and you're just looking like you're walking with your partner and you look cute, chances are... You knew they were there. You knew. But also, didn't he hang out with Gigi right after that as well? That was before Quarantine Crew. It wasn't like he ghosted her after that. No, because he and Gigi dated and then very shortly into their relationship, I believe her grandmother passed away. Grandmother or grandfather,

but I think it was grandmother. And then there was- Yeah, Oma, Oma. He went to the funeral. It was a big deal. It was over in Italy, right? It was like in Europe. It was in Europe.

Yeah, or maybe not Italy, but somewhere in Europe. And he flew with them. There was more paparazzi photos of him dressed in black with the whole family. And so then I think people maybe interpreted their relationship as more serious than it actually was because he was like attending Oma's funeral.

Yeah. It was a big deal. How do you, how do you misread when you go to grandma's funeral at all? I'm pretty sure you like, you can safely assume. What a lovely shoulder. But it's so hard to say,

I'm not going to go to your grandmother's funeral I don't think we're at that point in our relationship no no but like he got the invite so like maybe Gigi changed his mind her mind obviously but like maybe it was just a way to get you know Zayn back I don't I don't I don't know I mean listen that Gigi Zayn

Tyler Cameron timeline is pretty because then Gigi got pregnant and people were like is it Zane's? Is it Tyler's? But I always got the impression With the Hannah and Tyler thing that Tyler Always in the back of his mind

Knew that Being associated He was riding the Hannah Brown wave You know like being So you know Tyler became he had this kind of lightning in a bottle by being this

supportive guy on the show in a sea of what turned out to be like problematic men that Hannah Brown was dating on the show. And he was always there to be like, I just love strong woman Hannah Brown. He kind of has a little like slow twang. I just love strong woman Hannah Brown or whatever. Just have an accent now. Dream Hannah Brown.

He kind of has a little slow... He has a twang. And then obviously with the Jed stuff, I think he just kind of knew that... Listen, they knew they were getting clicks anytime they would post. And I think... I just got the impression that

Tyler knew that. And I got the impression that Tyler knew that and I got the impression that Hannah probably would have dated Tyler if Tyler was down but Tyler was just... Well, she asked him out. She didn't really leave him a choice. She asked him out like on... After the final rose. Yeah. Right. Literally sitting on the couch. Literally sitting on the couch.

So I feel like he kind of like owed it to America too. To like, okay okay but you wanted to marry this girl like now you're not going to go on a date with her like you have to go on a date with her so i mean listen everyone falls for tyler cameron what can i say yeah i don't know i mean but it sounds is it it's like teetering on maybe getting a little little tension between the two i feel like he won't stoop to that level though. I feel like based on how he presented it of like, she has

to sell books. I support her. I feel like he's keeping it very... Yeah, he's smart like that. I mean, don't you think the way she painted Pilot Pete was worse than Tyler? I mean, she said, she blasted Pete in the book. She said, well, basically, I don't feel like everyone knows that he

was living with his parents, but she painted a very like just him living with sweet numbs picture which isn't you know the hottest thing to portray and that the sex wasn't good so she's taking away the three times in the windmill by saying this time that we had sex yeah i thought wait i thought they didn't hook up no no they did. The night that they The engagement party night? Yeah. Yeah, she wrote that in the book. She said it wasn't good. I thought like they slept together but didn't hook up.

I could be wrong. What does that mean, Nick? What is slept together? Oh, no. In the same bed. No, because she said it wasn't good. She was like, we like expected it to be as good as it was and it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't good. So she said that. So maybe there's like awkward tension. You know,

when Barb's next door, it's really hard. You don't want to be too loud. Of course. I would, I would imagine like sex, you know, after,

after not being able to really touch anyone for eight weeks. And then you go into this windmill versus going to mom's house. That might turn out to be different types of sex. Well, there might be more pressure too. Yeah, it's just more real. You know, with PizzaFast saying I've never met someone who

and I know him a little bit, but who's so just unapologetically like I'm Peter Pan. I'm going to live with mom. it i don't care how this looks i'm happy i fly planes i have occasional sex whatevs like what the little things like he just he's he just goes around so unbothered by it all and i wouldn't make some of his choices but it's like all right he's he's like whatever so long to figure out he's like a playa. I feel like he's like a playa on the DL.

You know, the way that Tyler Cameron looks like a playa, but wasn't for a minute. And we were like, wow. With Pilot Pete, it's like, comes on, he's this pilot, he looks so serious, but then he's dated like five of the women from his season. Hannah comes out with the book. Apparently he was with her. He was actually

talking to Maddie at the same time. It was two minutes after he broke up with hannah ann and then he got with kelly i just i feel like peter's one of those guys who just like he just doesn't say no to sex no you know like if you're like hey do you want to have sex he's like okay like i just you know like which yeah i feel like he has a scuba instructor's approach to sex and I feel like he's just charming enough at the bars and he's a charming guy because I bet every girl thinks

I'll take a chance on this guy, this underdog but if everybody thinks like that and he's always like sure I think that's my read on Pete I don't know, anything else? Should we talk about Miss Katie Thurston? Yeah. Oh, she's dating John now.

Okay, well, good. My job's over. Thank you. Is it like there's... I had notes. I had screenshots. Oh, what else? I just know that right after last week,

they announced that they were dating. Yes. So last time we talked, she was doing day 11 of 12 Days of Messy. And remember, she hadn't given the guys like assignment to the song. She wrapped up the 12 Days of Messy. Song was Begin Again. It was a video montage of John.

Everything from like them hanging out now, him flying a plane, them meeting for the first time on The Bachelor. Great. John posted on Instagram and TikTok. They're doing piggyback rides. They're kissing. How lovely. But then Blake decided to share his perspective with the world. He went on the Talking It Out with Ryan and Mike podcast, and he said that Katie emotionally cheated.

He wishes that she would have given, he wished that he would have gotten a heads up from her because now that this came out so suddenly after they broke off their engagement, he's rethinking the time that they spent as an engaged couple because they spent time with John as an engaged couple. And then you realize that-

He was cuckold. Like this video that she posted of John flying this plane as her like begin again, whatever montage. She's sitting behind him. She's not sitting in like the co-pilot spot. She's with Blake.

Because she's with Blake in the back seat. Like Blake was in the plane that she's now using as like their love story, which is just ridiculous. And that Blake just said he did not like

her 12 days of messy and he was trying to avoid it, but everyone kept like tagging him and stuff. And then John released this basically novel on this subreddit thing saying like we didn't cheat on anyone he wrote on reddit yeah john like isn't that a weird long statement that is an incredibly statement it's like a self-published statement to go to reddit yeah i mean go to reddit well it's holiday season you're going to be getting together with family.

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and what's what's katie's aunt's name aunt lindsey yes i don't want to i don't want to say anything about the aunt why she's scared but don't come for me i mean the brand on john is that he seems to like fit the playbook of the type of guy aunt lindsey would want for her want for her right i mean i i i don't know i i i trust my instincts a lot and i don't like not like katie or something but something is like sitting a little weird for me with this whole thing and then i'm like she went 100 emotionally cheated right but he did you see he commented well like you were saying they're both i guess very active because this page put up like you were saying they're both i guess very active because this page put up his uh reddit post and somebody wrote as a comment like well emotional emotional cheating

is cheating yes and he responded to that who john who did john himself john himself and he he said i 100 agree emotional cheating is cheating but denied that that he emotionally cheated. I don't know. That's what he said. He denied that in his statement. He was kind of like, we were friends and then once we were single, it just happened so fast because it was so easy to fall from friendship into more romantic. No, feelings don't work that way. There's one

of two ways to look at this. Either you want 100% emotionally cheated slash cheated or you're emotionally immature to the point that as adults, like that's what a 15 year old would say. It's like, I didn't realize I had feelings in the moment when we were sitting there. And then like one day I woke up and I was like, I love you. Like that's a 15 year old kind of like emotional response to a situation, but like not adults. Like you recognize in real time that you're feeling something and then you're

hanging out and you're just like, should we go on a picnic as platonic friends? This whole idea. So either Katie and John are emotionally immature individuals who lack emotional logic. Who couldn't

decipher how they were acting in real time and just decided to be like oh it's not platonic we're we're in love that's what this is or you fucking cheated right yeah yeah that's one of two things i mean blake's mom has been liking comments yeah and i mean she seems like an awesome gal. I liked her. I feel like she has a good vibe. She's fighting back. I mean,

I feel bad for Blake like on a personal level, but isn't this like best case for Blake in terms of... Oh, PR? Because now people are on his side. Very hard to get

the sympathy vote as a male in Bachelor Nation breakups. Right? He's been on multiple times. Yeah. But when... Right. He can't go on again.

That's for fucking sure. But when Katie... Or Kenny, I mean Nick. He said he doesn't want to. He says he doesn't want to. I think he's... What about Paradise? I'm like, not this year, but the next.

He hasn't done Paradise. No, he'll be on Paradise. Yeah, he'll be on Paradise. He'll be on Paradise. I feel like not this one, but the next year. No, he'll be on... You think this year? Why not?

Fuck it. If John and Katie break up, can we see John and Blake go to paradise and fight over the same girl again? Yeah, I don't know. Drama. I don't know. But yeah, Katie 100%.

There's some good stuff. Katie cheated. So we all agree. Katie cheated on John. Because also like his letter. Like, what are you going to do? Confirm that you cheated? What is that?

Like, why write a statement to deny that you cheated the statement was just so long weird so so long it was like a book so long and saying nothing so long and saying no we were friends so long and saying what what you were saying but i mean whatever you're right for like it's it's best case scenario do you think there's more like ambiguity with emotional? Because with cheating in a physical sense, I think there's, even though some people might draw the line in different places, it's always pretty clear when that line is crossed. You can argue semantics all day. You know what I'm saying? If there's physical cheating, you could be like, did you kiss? Did you touch? Did you do this? Did you sleep next to him? Like there's a yes or no to answer the question. She spoke about this on a podcast, which is chilling because she went on

Whitney Cummings podcast and she actually brought up like when her and Blake were still together. I think Whitney asked her like, is Blake a jealous guy? And she was like, no, I hang out with my friend John all the time. And Blake doesn't care. He's like, whatever, live your life. And I just found that so funny because she literally said that on a podcast. I mean, but then again, just to give her the benefit of the doubt, we don't know anything about how Blake was in this relationship. You know what he was giving her, you know, whatever. That wouldn't excuse any type of cheating yeah

right yeah nick is big like yeah she could have just you know broken up with him if he was broken up with him yeah you know she could have broken up with him but that's like she flaunted it too like while the season was air i couldn't couldn't imagine being The Bachelor, engaged to Vanessa, and, like, multiple times a week posting about, fuck, I don't know, some girl I sent home week two. Like, I don't, you know what I'm saying? And also, isn't it funny? And hanging out and going on, like, just, like, spending time together. Like, happy hour of my bestie. And having her third wheel year a couple times also.

like happy hour of my bestie like having her third wheel year a couple time also like no it's very weird because she first of all why debut this relationship so dramatically like isn't that also hurtful like why are you doing this big boom in everyone's face when obviously there's someone hurt and also if you go back and look at John's birthday reel, which is when Blake and Katie were still together, it's literally like a Katie montage. You could see how in love with her he was.

The whole thing is Katie. Listen, I think you come off the show like nowadays they're pumping out all these shows. You become irrelevant very quickly and

it's a bit of a rat race of trying to come up with ideas and stay relevant and you can easily make poor decisions. We all think Katie thought this would be some funny reveal and we in Bachelor Nation

would let... I don't think Katie really thought this through or if she did but I don't know if she necessarily makes wise... I don't... Well, I think she was in a pickle. How was she going to get out of this? How was she going to do this in a way that was like... It could have been a little more subtle than a countdown. She could have just shut the

fuck up for six months and dated privately. Yeah, I think they're sure they're like Gigi and Zayn, and they thought they would be paparazzi at everywhere they go, and they just wanted to go to a normal dinner. I think there was, yeah. Ambushed by fans and the paparazzi. I think there was some hubris there in terms of overestimating your perceived value in the marketplace.

Yeah. Because yes, she could have... They could have, for six, eight months, low-key, been single, in private. They couldn't wait two fucking weeks. I mean, mega celebrities are having babies quietly. They're getting pregnant. They're pregnant for an entire nine months

and they're having a baby and then the baby's one. And they're like, had a baby. So yeah. So it's not like you can't go out in public together as friends, right? All you have to do is just not hold hands in public. I think they wanted to start being like

an influencer couple maybe and they're like a kaylin and dean i feel like he's kind of like a dean vibe he's like jumping out of the dean well you know maybe wanting to go in those in those uh dual influencer type uh footsteps he's jumping out of planes and surfing and like being adventurous. Well, we wish him nothing but the best. Yes, we do. We do. And we also wish Blake a speedy

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watching so i get excited when it's you know very relationship based you know and not like the guy's drama like hating on the guy you're not into the guy drama i hate the guy drama which is so predictable and so like you know it's kind of you know but the guy christian the guy christian it's not gonna you know she's not interested in any way complaining about nate who's obviously gonna be like a you know end game guy no i really like this episode i enjoyed i even like laughed we got emotional there were some emotional. There were some good moments. There were some good moments. I, I think watching it, this was the first time being spoiler free that I was like nervous watching the rose ceremony because like, I think Joe wins. I think Nate's top two.

But at the same time, I was like, fuck, Joe might go home. I like nothing. Truly nothing would have surprised me. I thought there was a potential Nate would go home. Really? Anything like she used. I don't remember. I'm sorry, but I really did know Rodney was going to go home. That was my guess.

And I think that was most people's guess. But can you honestly say that had Rodney not go home, that would be mind-blowing like this is the first final four in a while that like i certainly had my picks i certainly had my predictions but like nothing would have surprised me most of the final fours you're like there's just no fucking way like all right you had a good run i can't believe you made it this far but like what the fuck i mean shit like look at Justin like we all love Justin facial expressions that guy made it all the way to

top two and every week we're like how how are you here I mean think about Michelle's top four of Rodney Brandon Nate and Joe like you see why she likes all these guys you see the relationships

like think of Katie's top four do you believe like you see why she likes all these guys. You see the relationships. Like think of Katie's top four. Do you believe any of those relationships looking back now? Like thinking about like, yeah, it was a top four because of the show, but like compared to like the relationships and I don't know what that says about the show or Michelle or the candidates or the connections, but I do think it's fascinating that this top four,

like you, I would, if Michelle picked any of them, I'd be like, okay, yeah, I do think it's fascinating that this top four like you I would if Michelle picked any of them I'd be like okay yeah I can see it I can see why and that was I think really enjoyable because I felt an actual like I was a little nervous like during the I've never been as animated

watching it with Natalie being like fuck who's she gonna pick and then when she like picked Joe I was like yeah because like he's she going to pick? And then when she picked Joe, I was like, yeah! Because he's my guy that I think she's going to end up with. But I wasn't certain. Do you feel like... How beautiful is Joe? I'm sorry. Joe's gorgeous. That was really

notable this episode. Yeah. Those prom photos. Natalie and I said that multiple times. Yes, and he's so photogenic. He's so gorgeous. Every time they took a shot i was like taken away every shot but i just want to say something that i really focused on this episode and i like this come back to what you were saying is the kisses i love just looking at like the smooches even though they zoom in enough like for you to not have to pay

attention as closely as i do like something was up with joe and michelle's kiss were like i don't know there wasn't enough passion in the lip action for me it was very closed but maybe he talked with his mouth kind of closed so maybe he doesn't open his mouth while kissing is what i'm thinking but I really thought deep into this she has a lot of passion with Brandon in the kissing department Brandon just like Brandon is passion he is so bad

I love him I think he's so cute I also think he particularly looked really like physically like I thought it was his best episode like he definitely dolled up a little bit more he had an outfit that worked for him I thought it was his best episode like he definitely dolled up a little bit more he had an outfit that worked for him I thought I was like Brandon

looked the hottest that he's ever looked at. Wait are you talking about his skater boy outfit? Sure whatever but even like the way he just I was just like it was a bit of a glow up for Brandon you know I don't know maybe he got some extra sleep or something but it really he really shined I loved his family too his family was

super sweet and and you're right like when michelle was saying like usually when bachelorettes or bachelors say those kind of like corny lines of like i could see your family's hanging out you're like yeah yeah but when michelle said it like i felt what she was saying when she was like i could see our families hanging out. Like you could really feel that. Like I was like, oh my God, I could see your families hanging out. You know, it's one of those things that Natalie and I had this kind of discussion last night. When it comes to hometowns, because it's hometowns, like every season they'll make a big deal about like, I could see myself hanging out with family.

Every season they'll make a big deal about like, I could see myself hanging out with family. But like in the grand scheme of like life and dating, it's a nice to have, but you're never making your decision based off of like your ability to hang. Like at the end of the day, she's going to pick who she likes the most, even if it's her least favorite family. Right.

Like what if the family is like freaky? Like what if the family, there's a level of like, holy shit. What if the family is Aunt freaky like what if the i mean there's a level of like holy shit the family is aunt lindsay wait what was her yeah aunt lindsay yeah i mean yeah even but that's an and like if i had a if i met a girl with a nutty and and she was like like if the girl like afterwards she's like i don't know it's my fucking aunt you know yeah i'd be like yeah okay if she was like that's my fucking aunt. You know, I'd be like, OK, if she was like, that's my best friend. Right. Exactly.

It's worrisome if the person's like, that's, you know, the person that helps me make all my decisions. But I think that the opposite, though, of what you're saying is like if a family is like such a good vibe. I mean, there's a Sex and the City episode about it. There are a lot of like, you know, know romantic comedy you know movies that when you fall in love with the family so there there is something in the opposite sense of like you can kind of fall in love with the family and have that make you like the person more there's like that new girl episode where like jess just wants to go on dates with the parents like she's like does my boyfriend have to come or can i just go with his family i I think it's a total, it's a great bonus. If the family's great,

you definitely appreciate it because the family hangs are that much more fun. It's not a drag. I'm just saying at the end of the day, it's not really influencing your decision. Short of it being a crazy

ass family where once you meet that family, it shines like a light on the person you've been dating where like you couldn't place like what it is about this person that was kind of like bugging you, but you like so much about them. And all you say you meet their family. You're like, oh, like I

see where this is going to go with you. Like short of that. I just don't think the family plays that big of a decision. You disagree? Yeah. End of argument. No, I just, no, I think, and I'm sure this is like a very personal issue. I just think it's very relevant the way someone treats their family,

especially if you are looking to create a family with someone. And that's not to say that people can't. How you treat your family and how like the family chemistry are two different things like if if those i but i feel like that comes out when you meet the family yeah but if you like met a family and like your partner was like oh that's my brother and like you saw a closeness but they were like into a bunch of shit you're just like these are just not my people but there was a genuine love for that family. Yeah. And it's like, what you're describing is like being rude to waiters. It's like you walk in and like, they're just like a dick to their family. Like,

yeah, that's a red flag. Sometimes though, if like, if someone I'm seeing like calls their mother every single day at a regimented time, it's something I'll notice. Like not saying it's disqualifying, but stuff like that can make a real influence. That's nothing against their mom. That's nothing against them. It's wonderful for them that they have such a close relationship. But I think there's an element of being like-

See, I think we're agreeing. But can I plug in? Like, can I plug into this situation? And I think if I felt really, if I didn't feel comfortable and I didn't have faith that I could become comfortable. I agree with comfortable. I get,

I get, I agree with you, but like how that your partner interacts with their family. And again, if there's like specific red flags, like talking, like got to call mom at 9am, like every morning,

like it'd be like weird, but your ability to have fun with a family and have them be your people. I just don't think is all that big. I don't think Michelle's ability to hang with Brandon's family over Joe's family, which there's a clear difference. Yeah. Joe's sister-in-law was keeping it together.

She's like, hey, these are very nice people. They don't talk a lot. They don't talk. Have we ever had a sister-in-law be like i got like i'll do the idea on her fucking sister-in-law was running that hometown and it seemed like very nice people like joe's family seems totally pleasant and fine but but it did make me understand like why joe is the way he is you know because if we could have like doubted Joe and been like, okay, you know, he's too hot to be like this quiet and this reserved,

like this is some kind of play a thing. But then we were like, no, his brother was frozen. Like the brother was just like, yeah. Like you could tell how nervous he was. And he's like this giant, also good looking guy and also just wasn't able to speak and then his dad was like okay so what do you want to talk about I mean that made me laugh I think and even Joe sitting there Joe was like well dad

I know you've got some questions pause dad goes nope that was a pretty another pause like I was like this is comedic like this is just silence and that's totally fine. And Joe's family seems sweet and quiet. Oh yeah.

And whatever. And I guess that's my overall point is that if, if Michelle decides she has the best connection with Joe. Well, she has Hannah. Let's, she has her sister-in-law. She's going to bond.

At the end of the day, she's not going to be like, but Brandon's family is fun. Right. Like she's not, it's just not going to be a part of her's family is right right like she's not it's just not going to be part of her decision i just noticed that um she vibed michelle really vibed with the dads do you guys know i feel like with the mom she was having kind of a harder time to be like it was more kind of awkward and with the dad she was like yes you want to play ball and like are

you gonna i feel like she had a really good vibe even with the quiet dad even with with uh joe's dad i feel like she she managed to get kind of like a vibe going do you think that's normal though like in in most cases because you know moms maybe with their sons moms of boys are hard boys can be very like weirdly protective and like you're just like i just and i'm asking a group of women because I don't know. And I have a close relationship with my mom. Is it intimidating to date a guy who seemingly has a healthy, close relationship with their mom that you don't want to say anything to fuck up?

I feel like you need to watch the first time that they do something nice for you in front of their mom and look to the mom and see how she reacts to it. When my ex would open a car door for me and not for his mom, I would look to her and see. Because you can always tell if they're clocking it as like a, hmm, he hasn't done that for me.

She makes him open car doors for her. Or as opposed to like, oh, I trained my son well. I'm glad he did this nice thing for the girl. Yeah, you have to figure out. Interesting. That would make sense. I feel like maybe there's just more of a level of even like moms don't want to

I don't, I mean, I'm not a mom, but like there might be a more of a level of like either competition or being replaced as like the main woman in his life as opposed to a dad that's a completely different relationship. So like, you can sit down and have a very, like, I mean, I pride myself on being like more of like a tomboy person with dads, especially like talk about outdoor stuff, talk about that kind of stuff. And then it's like with a mom, it's like,

no, I just think I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. Like this is a completely different dynamic. Do you think there was even a conversation with Michelle and Joe's dad or do they think they just like said, fuck it? No, I'm sure there was a conversation. There's definitely a conversation. It just probably didn't, it wasn't very fruitful is my guess. It's like, oh, you know, if you like, you seem like it's nice and whatever Joe wants. wants i think it's so funny i mean nick you went through this but it's always so funny to me like even to see brandon's brother who was such a vibe and he like such a vibe you know i was like is he a dj i don't know he had this like very cool and him being like michelle on the talk it's like such a moment where you just know how like

you know he was told to do that and it's like then the questions that they ask her is like so why do you like him and i can't even like it's just such a loaded question i hate such a loaded and she even and she's very good at like she was like you know he's playful like she didn't really even know what to say you know it's like oh how is he different from the other guys you're you know hooking up with and it's like he's really into me like what i've never had to question how brandon feels about me that was like you're not she was like there's something different with brandon than with the other ones it's like oh i wouldn't even know where to begin sucks yeah for the lead it sucks it was the hardest week for sure and i don't know for me it was the hardest week for sure. And I don't know, for me it was the hardest week because I kind of knew what I was doing

and it felt personally disrespectful to go into these people's homes and pretend to have an interest in their daughter more than I was leading on. But it just felt, I really personally struggle with that. And I was incredibly careful with my words because I didn't want to say more than I had to to get by. But Michelle, I think she's, I don't know if she's already made her decision in her head.

And she seems to have like a sincere interest in all these people so i wonder i mean i think with rodney you just felt like it was a little less you know so i did feel bad and her mom was all over that she knew i mean her mom's no i think it's not like that you're like you're not picking my son his mom was a little like like too nice on the verge of like my you know um in your you know what i mean it just had those kinds of vibes for me like don't hurt my son oh she yeah she had some mama line energy anyone who like describes their son as like more of their best friend than their son i'm like that's always like, that's going to be hard to be the girlfriend. Like I have a son.

I know it's really shocking because I look so young. You do. Everyone be shocked. Thank you. So it's so hard to like, imagine like you want that, right? Like technically like, would I want him to be obsessed with me? Yes.

Would I want to be the girl whose boyfriend is obsessed with their mom no so like what's the line I mean I like playing the whole thing out like if you're a mom of a boy you obviously want your kid to love you and call you and be obsessed with you and maybe be your best friend but you don't want to date that guy who's obsessed with his mom his best friends with his mom, you know, and whatever. So,

I mean, there's a fine line. There's a fine line of like it being cool and it being like too much. Yeah. And I got the impression from Ronnie that it, I would, I would bet it's on the cool side. Like it seemed like Ronnie,

maybe she wanted it to be more, but he was like, mom, yo. Yeah. Right. Like Ronnie seems like a real stand-up guy. A really impressive showing all the way through.

Especially someone who shows up with the apple. If Ronnie went home week one, a guy showed up dressed as an apple who couldn't get a Granny Smith. People, I think, wrote him off. Every week, it's just more and more impressive. I thought he had a really stand-up showing. And I think if you had a really weird relationship

with your mom, I just don't know if you're capable of accomplishing what Rodney accomplished in this crazy atmosphere. I would also argue that I bet Chris Skippy also probably has a very unique relationship with his mom.

I don't know what different way in a very different way. And it panned out, you know, I don't know. I think there's, there is a unique rule. I don't know what his relationship with his mom is, but I bet it's unique.

Skippy. Yeah. I don't know if it's good or it's bad. I think, but it's specific would be my guess. I don't know. No thoughts. Oh, you're looking at me.

You can't tell with these cameras. I don't know who Chris Skippy is. Oh, Chris S. Oh, you know what? You fast forwarded through it, probably. Wait, is it? He was on this season? Yeah, the short guy.

Oh, Christian. Oh, Christian. Is it Christian? Yes. Right? They called them chris are you thinking about christian from kdc's in boston man no the short guy from yeah we're talking about the same guy but we just call him chris s oh actually we call him skippy but i mean christian just like i don't know feels like it works better for him um yeah i think it's hard to to know what his relationship with his with his mom is i think i mean you know this nick it's hard to know what his relationship with his mom is.

I think, I mean, you know this, Nick. It's like those guys that come on, they know they're not getting the girl, so they probably create other drama so they can be on the show a little. That's how it felt to me. Yeah, but in the weirdest possible way. I just don't understand. Like, you can become a villain by doing

nothing in the show. If the show wants to play music, fine. But like he was, he was choosing these choices. Right. For himself. And I couldn't comprehend why someone, why airtime was worth it. I don't. That's my question.

That's, that's my disappointment. And my choice to fast forward is like, respect me, respect my time. You know, don't waste my time on chris s you know what i mean like he's not him and michelle don't vibe he's not gonna like be here so i don't i don't want to see it i want to see relationships i want to see the kisses i want to see those things do we uh what did we think of brendan skateboarding i wanted him to be really good at it i felt bad because I was like That was another low moment. Yeah, I was like

I don't know how much of a pro skateboarder you are in real life, but I will say doing it in front of cameras and doing it in front of a person like you really like, that's got to be hard, but it's not a good show. You could tell he definitely skated and was like decent and probably hasn't done it in a while

and he was really hoping it was like riding a bike and wait did it ever remind you of Matt James like it brought me right back to Matt James because didn't he do that on his season he was like watch me skate and then he like failed did he I don't know yeah he did

yeah but I really wanted him to be good at it like I wanted him to crush yeah he had the outfit on he had the like skater venice beach outfit on she even put on vans too which is cute they were both like matching vans i really didn't know what he had in store though because that that nasty little um like a garage stall that he opened to like show this whole skate park i was like where are you guys that easily could be like a thing like oh it's got to be somewhere in minnesota it looks super cool and and he i think he's so sweet he something about him is like very childish like you almost

feel like he's like a little boy maybe he has his face is boyish but i i believe him i fully believe him i think fully believe him. I think that's why I wanted him to be good at skateboarding. Cause I wanted him to be good at something other than just loving hard, you know, like, yeah. Cause he's got that down.

Like rock solid. He's a recruiting traveling nurse. And he's good at that. Yeah. You know who else is? Oh no. He's an actual travel nurse. Noah.

Noah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a distinction between a recruiting i mean he's recruiting people like noah yeah he recruits the noahs of the world but yeah seems like yeah but listen in terms of what you were talking about families i think that with joe though wouldn't it cross your mind being like we're both from minnesota like that's so much easier here you're literally taking away a whole issue of like you know nate is all like austin this austin that like assuming his life is going to be in austin you know what i mean yeah no it definitely is a very convenient if you're going into this hoping you meet someone hoping you fall for someone and then hoping it works out after this shit all ends like that is a huge huge huge advantage to like

you know like you know vanessa was really like we decided that she was going to move out to la right away and as soon as the show ended did. But that's a big ask for someone who's close with her family. If everything else was perfect and it wasn't, that would still be a huge weight to just move your life for someone who's ultimately a stranger.

When Vanessa moved to LA, we had never spent more than three days together locked in a house. Was there any panic? Or was there any moments of like, what the... There was panic the whole relationship.

I would have shit the bed. It's a very stressful thing to have the pressure of bachelor nation. And you definitely, sincerely have feelings. You felt these real emotions in this world. And then you're out. And there's just a lot of a lot of shit that comes so yes to amanda's point it's a huge advantage i don't think i will say though i don't you realize how much is it it's advantage after the fact again i don't think it would it wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't change it wouldn't make it it wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't change it wouldn't make it wouldn't

impact my decision and short of there being like a tie and there's never really a tie

but it is a huge bonus yeah and even the sister-in-law said she was like I hope

this works out because we're going to run into each other at the grocery store

it sounds like they don't yeah they're not just like from the same area

they're like in the neighbors same hood you know like they're from the same

neighborhood yeah yeah so I don't know then we got i love did anyone else like love the fact that uh nate's family called him nathaniel yes i thought that was such a really endearing thing and it's like that's what they called him and what would i did i hear it right that like nate's stepdad and his mom are divorced and they divorced recently but still showed up for this hometown that's lovely but he said he really really loves his dad so like why didn't his act his real dad come i mean who knows there's it could be a million reasons why it didn't work out also with covid we're still in a covid world you know so traveling his dad easily could be just

a private person like who's like doesn't watch a show and his son's like hey i'm doing this for my tv show and he's like i don't want anything to do with that and i totally respect any's parents being like listen i support you do your thing but like i don't want to be out of it you know and i don't know there's anything wrong with that at all yeah um so who knows why he's not there. But I do think it was a really, it was just a kind of a sweet thing to have like a stepdad. And despite him getting divorced to your mom,

like still shows up wanting to support your stepson. No, that was a really emotional moment almost to the verge of like a breakthrough like if the like a therapist would probably be like no that was a breakthrough it was like yeah it 100 felt like a breakthrough it made me feel like and again like the show the show is what it is we talk about all the time the producers produce and they definitely will push you to make decisions that are not always in the best interest for yourself,

but decisions you would want to make if you had no inhibitions or the good... They're always the devil on your shoulder being like, this would be fun. It's the buy the boat when you really can't afford the boat or have no business honing the boat, But it's the friend.

The producers are the friends who are always being like, wakeboard. We can wakeboard. And despite that, they aren't all evil people. And this world, if you are willing to tap in and embrace this kind of emotional kind of hot box, you really can have like these moments, especially for people who just have never gone there, who haven't opened up. And so you're sitting there focused on your feelings 24 seven. And for someone like Nate in this situation, I really watched it thinking, I really hope this moment is something that he will have for the rest of his life. And he will take this opening up and carry whatever happens, whether he ends up with

Michelle or not, that he will have this feeling of fruitfulness and being honest about his feelings felt in that moment and want to keep doing that for himself in future relationships. And it brought him closer to his stepdad. To tell another man that you love them, I don't think is always easy for a lot of men in this world. And I think it's a really kind of special... It was the best part of the episode for sure. It was almost like, okay, it was a shit who Emme Shell ends up with right now. What a beautiful moment for nate yeah and even him sharing it with michelle after would like added to how you know special that was and how he actually probably opened up and how it

stayed with him you know he was like whoa like this just happened that's so crazy um but i think we yeah we got a sneak peek also that like i mean if i was michelle i was like oh wow he's not you know that open with his family like he said the mom said he said like he's never shared anything about girls before which is like extreme extreme do you think that right yeah and like nate opening up to michelle at the end he's saying like yeah i just told you know my stepdad i love him for the first time like look what happens like one night with you and all of this like happens like how great so i'm like in one way that could be so like michelle's like wow this is great he's making progress but it could also be like wow we have so far to go. So I'm like, is it good or bad

that this is the first time this has ever happened? As far as Michelle and Nate go, I personally think extremely bad. In fact, I actually think it's a non-negotiable. It should be a non-negotiable for Michelle. I still don't know who's going to end. I think she's going to pick Joe. You see the chemistry with Nate.

I think Nate will be the number two. If Michelle is the person she has shown us to be, which is this incredibly self-aware and thoughtful person who has had her own personal heartbreak, has made her own mistakes, but now has the benefit of perspective and hindsight where she's like, I've fallen for this trap in the past, but I'm now the mature, successful woman who I can say no to myself. She's not Carrie Bradshaw who never learns from her bullshit. If that is who she is, while this world can tap into those emotions, you do not want to get engaged to the guy who for the first time in his life at in his late 20s like finally decided to like fall in love for the first time or like really go to a place emotionally because this world is meant to do this right it's it's meant to elicit these emotions and tap into the so there it's a bit it they're real but they're manufactured right so nate is feeling love and for the first real significant time in his life in a very manufactured environment that's

meant to elicit these types of emotions so while it's good to help you have a breakthrough moment to like start the process of like loving people and really opening up it is definitely not how you want to start a relationship that you hope will last forever you know they like to me that you could tell you could tell that he's not emotionally mature enough for even his family i love that they were like yeah they were like they were like yeah no and i loved it because his family and then and it his family said it in such a non-judgmental kind way where it's just like we love nate this is like hey his this has been his path it's been slower for whatever reason and it's fine like nate's not that old he's a great looking guy with a ton of slag that decided to be like you know what i'm not really

gonna get close to anyone i'm just gonna be a fuck boy and I'm not going to lead anyone on. I'm just going to go out and have fun and hook up and I'm not going to hurt anyone. I'm not going to lie about feelings. I'm not going to say I love you to people. I'm just going to go be Nate. And that sounds like that was his choice. And that's fine. But I wouldn't want to get engaged to that guy on The Bachelorette. Yeah. I think Michelle, I think in that moment, it's also like, great for you. Bad for us. Yes.

Great for you. Bad for us. That was Nate's hometown. Great for you. Yeah. But yeah, you could totally feel the energy of his family and the whole vibe. His whole vibe is very fun. Very positive. Like you said, good said good looking tall like good vibes all around but like you're like dude you are not about to wife this

girl up well his stepdad i thought asked a really good question too because he was like you know what's you know how are you feeling how is this this experience? And Nate was like, it's just like these feelings. It's just these feelings. They're so new. Yeah. And then his dad was like, well, if they're so new,

how do you know it's real? He basically was like, they're new. You've never felt them before. So how do you know she's the one? It was an excellent question and an atmosphere. In a far more concise way his stepdad made my very long winded

point where it's just like hey good for you for feeling for the first time but like I wouldn't base the rest of your life on this you know and his stepdad's 100% right you know interestingly enough like Michelle

didn't get to hear Nate's family's breakdown of nate which you would think would be important information just be like sweet guy he really likes you i've never seen him like someone like you before but nate isn't as mature as as you are right like they even said that they said those words they were like she's super mature he's he's not and it's okay but but it's definitely not but i feel like you could tell from those little things like you know this is what i do every day in austin this is not a guy he's like living his best life it sounds like he hasn't gotten to the point of like

i need a wife and i need this you this vehicle to help me find the wife. He's living his best life right now. He said he paddleboard four times a week. Literally three or four times a week. That's a guy with a lot of free time on his hands. He goes to work. He does his job. And he's like...

He sells some stuff and then he paddleboards. I want to paddleboard. And he still has plenty of time going out he has Nate's life is all about Nate and that is not a criticism at all it's just like where he is in his life and the jump from

that life to be like I'm gonna go on this reality TV show and like fuck it let's see what happens I guess I'll be open to falling and then he meets someone like Michelle is surprised and like smitten by her and taken back and I believe I don be open to falling. And then he meets someone like Michelle, is surprised and smitten by her and taken back. And I believe, I don't think Nate's foolish. I believe Nate's feelings for her.

But it's just, it would be such a giant step for him that even Nate's parents agree that he's probably not emotionally ready for. agree that he's probably not emotionally ready for. And I think Michelle is smart enough to not give into her ego and be like, I could change him. I will... Because a lot of people... We've all done that. You meet someone like that

and you're like, but no, I know. But what we have is special and I'll be patient and I'll work with him and I'll change him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think Michelle is smart enough to not do that to herself. She's a teacher nine to five. She doesn't need to do that at home. Yeah. And I think she's looking for that

person. Interestingly enough, so what she has left is Brandon who's like on the younger side. That's what I'm saying. I feel like she has quiet Joe. Right. So that's why Brandon feels like the safe choice of like, okay, but I know he really really loves me you know I feel like I maybe it's my ego but if I had to make a choice I feel like maybe because

I'm also like you know older it's like I would want to make the choice where I feel like it's safe you know I feel like this person really really loves me that's you know safe I feel like this person really, really loves me. That's safe. I feel like once Michelle has an overnight date with Joe, she will bond with him. And I don't mean like once they fall off. I mean like...

But it is a moment you're really waiting for. And if Joe is this guy who's camera shy and constantly feeling out of place around cameras and you you know i give joe a lot of credit because you can tell this is not easy for him and he's really trying to like open up and he's really trying to get comfortable around these cameras and i like to think it's for michelle you know what i'm saying it's not because like he's like I fucking

hate this but I think once he gets behind I don't think he's trying to be like and you know I don't think he's trying to have a podcast after this you know yeah I just don't suspect it's going to happen I would love that podcast even by his Instagram

like it's one of those Instagrams that you would want you would want to date that guy like if you swiped right on that guy and you checked on his instagram it'd be that instagram you're like oh great he has a photo from like a mountain one day and he has a photo with his like like he's just guessing yeah yeah he's like i don't know but michelle didn't have social media before she went on the show either so in that way maybe they're perfect because you know

that they're they're genuine I liked Michelle because of that so I feel like that gives some extra points of like that he is there

for the right reasons I'm hoping and again he's I think Michelle is so attracted to him at the end of the day I mean he's beautiful like I'm

right yeah we're all attracted to Joe. We're all picturing our babies with Joe. Like every time he like, they took that picture. I was just like, and those photo booths are hard.

Those are not like good cameras. And he's still just like glow. It was unreal that he was coming out even hotter in the photo. And he looks like in those pictures, like he's kind of this quite awkward guy where he didn't realize like you know the picture it was being taken so it's like not even his best face but he's still beautiful yeah he's just like oh i'm sorry what was i supposed to smile and he still looks gorgeous in these photos it's wow but anyway i do think once joe and michelle are alone off camera together it will feel like they had 20 dates of conversations.

And I feel like she will really connect with him. And whatever doubts that she had about Joe will be solidified in that overnight of like, this is safe. It's easy. I mean, fuck, he's hot. Like, he reminds me of my dad. And yes, he lives in minneapolis you know that's true she also did say which like we know girls love that shit especially if you have a you know it's a good thing if you have a good dad right which it seems like michelle is a really

good dad but she said like he reminds me of the men in my family we know how sweet her dad looks and how she has great parents and how she loves him. So that's a good, it's a very, and as much as like Michelle says, like she wants, um, a guy to,

um, take charge. And she like, I don't, I don't know how she said it. So like, I'm paraphrasing. So don't coach.

Like, are you talking about what Jamie? Yeah. Early, earlier in the season, she's like, I've always been the one who's kind of like running the show.

And I believe that she... I think she will always be fine with being slightly the alpha in the relationship. You know what I'm saying? So I think someone like Joe, who is more quiet and reserved, as long as he in private can keep up with her and she feels

like he has... And when we interviewed her, she kind of mentioned... I don't know if she talked about Joe specifically. But yeah, when he really gets going, like a classic introvert, just because you're an introvert doesn't mean you're always quiet or you're always reserved. It just takes some warming up and you have to feel comfortable.

And when you feel comfortable, your extroverted side can really shine and come out. And I think as long as Michelle has that from a guy, she'll be totally fine running the show and being the shining star a little bit in the relationship. As opposed like with Brandon it's really nice to like have a guy shower you or a girl shower with love and feel like this person loves me and it's even better on the bachelorette because Brandon makes Michelle's job so much easier every time they hang out like she can literally just be like I'm just gonna sit here and let this guy love on me. Right. And in that world, when she's emotionally tired, she's physically tired, like, Brandon is such a, like, just a nice to have in Bachelor world. And I think she respects the fuck out of Brandon.

And I think she thinks she's amazing. I think she recognized that she'd be lucky to have him. But like, she's not, I don't think she's like there with him. Wow. You've really convinced people with your opinions nick by the end of this episode now i'm like believing you that she picks joe i could be wrong i could be wrong but that's how i see it i will say like i don't i think the the hurdle with nate is going to be the fact that he's never been in love he's not ready for an engagement like in no way do i think he's going gonna be her final pick but i noted when they were doing the like paddle boarding

she said she's nervous around him no it wasn't even that it was more so like when she got on his paddle board and he was paddle boarding he was like i know what i'm doing she was like no you don't and then she was like you have a nice body like the way she was talking to him was even like a different tone and a different cadence than how she talks to the other two and it made me think like oh with the other two it feels like michelle is in control michelle is as you say like the coach she knows what she's doing she's very mature and in that way i think the reason she's kept nate around this long and even kept him after the family said he's not ready for an engagement is because I think it's a bit different with him.

She is a bit nervous. She's not completely in control because she doesn't know exactly where he's coming from. And I think that's maybe exciting to her. I totally agree. And she did say in that date, which I thought was interesting, I'm nervous around you.

I just think when it comes to bachelor world, you always go back to your roots when you're forced to make a decision in less than a few weeks about who you might spend the rest of your time with it is not the time to take a flyer on like your personal choices and i do think nate is the guy who does make her excited that she is like she feels a different way with him it's all very exciting exciting but i just don't think give especially with this information she just knows it's not the right choice for her and like there's a world where she would have had a lot of fun with Nate

and some great sex and a good time but like she can do all that with Joe and be fine. If each of you were Michelle who would you pick for yourself? Joe. Joe? Joe. What about you Amanda?

I think I said okay so I think I would pick Brandon because I feel like he's he would give me the feeling that you know no matter what like he's obsessed with me but maybe that's an issue I need to like you know figure out for myself well that's your life I like

people who really like me. Your love language is words of affirmation. No, it makes sense. I mean, some people, I think that's totally fine. I mean, to a certain degree, but I think that's... To a certain degree. But I feel like Joe is more of

a risk because he's into her, but can she know for sure that he's so so so into her can he break her heart yes brandon just seems like he's there and he's you know so maybe i would pick brandon just um because of that but i but i do think that her and joe make a lot of sense on a lot of different levels but nate is a for sure he's out. He's out of the race. I think I agree. Is there and I don't think Michelle would necessarily make this choice, but I'm curious if you think this logic holds up. Do you think there's ever a thought with the lead of like,

I'm on this TV show? Like, yeah, I kind of want the person who's like flashy and six foot six and super hot and like so goddamn charismatic. Do you think there's ever being in that position more of an inclination to believe the fairy tale with people or to believe someone who seems like a high risk, high reward? I think you go back to your roots. I think at the end of the day, when you're forced to make a potential long-term decision in an unreasonable amount of short time,

you go with what you go with. Like Josh Murray was Andy's type. I was not. Sean was Caitlin's type. I necessarily was not. Vanessa was very much my type. You end up going, if your type is there and as long as they kind of check the boxes

and don't show any obvious red flags and even if they are a couple, you're kind of like, but maybe they're yellow. You're going to go with what you know. It's just not the time to be like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to take a flyer.

And in a perfect world, that might be the smart thing to do. It might be the right thing to do. But I just think we, when we're really pressed in a very pressured situation to make a very important decision, you're just like,

ah, fuck. I'm just going to go with what I know here. I just don't know if it's the time to really go. Let's get nuts. Do we feel like Nate is in that way, almost the Tyler Cameron of Hannah Brown season? The hot one that you know you probably won't end up with, but sure is fun to keep them on board.

I think Hannah Brown is a perfect example. I think Hannah never felt safe enough with Tyler. I think my guess felt safe enough with Tyler. I felt like, I think, my guess is Hannah's intuition felt like, this guy's not that into me. Like whether it was true or not, she didn't totally buy it. And I honestly don't think Tyler was ever that into Hannah.

And Jed reminded her of home and she connected with him. And it was like, you know, Jed was like the one B to her, Luke Parker, who was very much like Luke Parker was the guy she imagined being with, who, you know,

like that's who she was going to pick unless he didn't like really fuck up, you know? And, and Tyler was a guy who was like, I, I've, this is hot and this is surreal. And I can't believe, Oh my God, this is great. But like, this, I've, this is hot and this is surreal. And I can't believe,

oh my God, this is great. But like, this isn't gonna, there's no way, you know? And I felt like she put, she went to,

she, she picked what she knew. She picked what she was comfortable with. She picked her type, you know, despite, you know, everyone else being like,

wait, well, you could get engaged with this model. It's beautiful. Like, what are you doing? You're like, what?

And I think that's why Hannah did what she did because because and it makes a lot of sense it's human nature to be like oh like jed like i can see myself at jed you know it works he's hot he plays the guitar so fuck it you know yeah i don't know that's a good that's a good i never thought about it that way but it's it's very true i mean she could have picked Pete too, but I guess Jed reminded her more of him. I mean, she didn't even have sex with Tyler, so she was really restraining herself. I think

Tyler wasn't having sex with Hannah. Oh, you think he was the one that didn't want to do it? I think Tyler was always down to do whatever he thought would come across as the nicest and most respectful. And I think Hannah had a lot of sexual tension and chemistry with Peter.

Peter fucks, as we know. So they had sex. And I think she kind of suspected she was going to pick Jed. And she probably really wanted to and Tyler was never like Tyler didn't go in to that fantasy suite being like I gotta lock this down you know like I don't think

Tyler made any moves I thought I'm guessing he was a very respectful kind of king in the fantasy suite because he didn't want to like if she wants to have sex with me like I'll do it. But I think Hannah also being very Christian and her struggle with sex and like, why fuck Pete?

And I want to pick Jed. I'm not the girl who's going to have sex with everybody. And I think if Tyler came out of the closet doing Tyler Cameron, I think they definitely would have hooked up. But I think Tyler was just like going to sit this one out. Unless, unless Hannah was like,

I want to fuck Tyler, like made a little bed on the floor and was like, good night. Tyler would have slept on the floor. If that's what Hannah wanted to. Like, I think Tyler like was like always playing with house money. And was this like,

I'm just going to like like who knew he was so smart i mean he's fucking smart he's fucking smart but pete fucks is gonna stay with me like pete fucks is just so good we know pete fucks he never so good he never turns down sex i'm sure he's turned down some sex but like we're not slut shaming he's down and that's totally fine I like Pete I've always I've always

whenever time I the few times of he's a nice guy he always he's got I think he's got a good heart at the end of the day he is kind to people

do you think he's self-aware because it sounds like he might be I don't think he to the point in which he just doesn't give a fuck yeah I just think in a charming way like he is less you know he's less neurotic I don't think he, to the point in which he just doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. I just think in a charming way, like he is less, you know, he's less neurotic or worried about what everyone thinks.

He's just like, oh man, I have a good life. Judge all you want. Maybe I've, I've, I've always, like my dad was a pilot. All I've ever wanted to do is be a pilot. Now I'm a pilot. I got to be on a reality TV show. I'm tall. I'm reasonably good looking.

Why do I have to complain about? And I think that's how Pete Weber approaches life. And honestly, like, how can you fault him for that? No, true. It's a good approach. You know, he like probably recognizes his privilege. And he's just like, fuck it. Like, I'm going to shut the fuck up and be happy.

Yeah, I like that. I like that he has like, you know, his own thing going. We just don't know how, you know, what he has his own thing going. We just don't know what he has done to these girls. If he played their hearts a lot, because we know there was some juggling going on. So if that wasn't too shady, then yes, live your life. I don't know how that all went. I didn't follow it. My experience with Bachelor Nation people is that the men and the women are just as shady. And they're both fucking shady. It is not like Bachelor Nation is full of fuck boys and fuck girls. I feel like it's people constantly trying to like calculate what their options are and get the best one.

And there's a lot of like, yes, there is the element of the social media and hype and brand and it just is what it is. And so I just don't think anyone's a saint. They have all made decisions. And I, yeah, it's like,

yeah, I just don't think anyone can like get on some sort of soapbox and, and play the, like, I got screwed over card. I just fell in love. I just don't think anyone could be like, I was just here to love.

What about Brandon? I was just about to say. Other than Brandon, maybe. I don't care to love. And you know what, Rodney? He seemed very real also. Sure. And they all do.

But I guess I would extend that criticism to anyone and I don't fault them for doing it. Shit. I did it. If you're going on Paradise, if you continue your reality TV career, you aren't here just for love. You just aren't. It's, you know, like I actually, I went to Chicago and talked with Grocery Store Joe and we were, and Joe's a great guy. And he even said to me, he's just like, included himself in the conversations. Like, you just can't forget, convince me that anyone who goes on the show doesn't have a

little bit of a narcissistic trait to them. You know, like there's a little, of course, you know, like. Or like a bit of hubris to be like, this environment notorious for manipulation, notorious for drama that I can go in and my integrity and good qualities will shine through and I will exit not worse than I did.

And that's what I love about Joe is that he is self-aware and he's not pious and righteous. Joe doesn't believe his own bullshit. Joe doesn't believe his hype. Joe doesn't walk around own bullshit. Joe doesn't believe his hype. Joe doesn't walk around with... Joe's well aware of how amazing his edit is. He got even a better

deal than Tyler C maybe. Because he was the night one. Tyler C at least, he had to do the whole thing. Joe was the night one. No more grocery store for him. Yes, podcast. You know what? maybe the other joe will i mean we didn't think this joe would have a podcast did we that's true but joe was like

at joe grocery store was like asked to do it by like the it's the bachelor nation podcast and he and he said yes to it and like i and i think it's great and joe like joe's also selling t-shirts and he's doing things i I think Joe's great. He is self-aware enough to know and I think a lot of people in this world believe their bullshit. If they get amazing hype, they're just like, yeah, I did all that. I did all that. All the positive things they get from the show, that was them.

All the criticism, it was the edit it was the producers and joe is self-aware enough to know that he he owes a lot of people some thank yous and he he brings a lot to the table because he is a great guy but he he's aware that like they showed all none of his warts and you know all of his like great great stuff yeah i mean it is funny though i think jared freed he's a comedian does like bachelor stuff was on my podcast talking about grocery store joe like screaming i was peeing my pants because when he put it the way he did because on bachelor in paradise i was like i love grocery store joe and he just was like grocery so just like he sits there and is like yeah yeah or whatever he says and his like little cute accent and it just works and he got the best

like he's so loved and i mean he didn't do that much for it right and and if he's self-aware about that then that's that's great no he is and it really it really makes me like like i think we've covered it all uh i guess like just you okay so you're gonna stick with brandon i i mean you know what yeah to be different who goes home next who goes home next nate i think i think though i could see a world in which like you were saying she wants to keep like the two really you know because nate is so hot and he's so tall and impressive that maybe she wants to keep him um but but joe for sure finalists and then i think it's between nate hot risky she knows she's not going to take him and brandon maybe she's less feeling him but super safe we'll see any is it yeah I could see her if she I think the second she knows it's not Brandon she's gonna send him home out of kindness

to him yeah so I could really see it being a Joe Nate finale but I could also see Joe Brandon going to these fantasy suites like Brandon will be laser focused Brandon will be like teeth brushed you know like fucking tongue brushed he will be respectful but if there is

a crack to drive through like he he is going hard to the paint if the paint is open he's coming prepared condoms everywhere well Amanda thank you so much for recapping this episode

please let my audience know where they can consume more of your content not skinny but not fat is my Instagram handle and my podcast name. And thank you for having me. It was a fun episode. Fun to chat with you guys.

Well, thanks for coming on. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in your questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com. Cast with a K with our Asked for our Ask Nick episodes. Be sure to tune in and check out our episode with the wonderful and fascinating Charlie Jordan. You won't want to miss that.

And if there's nothing else, we will see you. Like, I don't know now. Keep listening. Keep listening. Yeah. Great. Bye.