The Viall Files - E359 Bachelorette Recap With Elizabeth Wagmeister

Episode Date: December 22, 2021

Today on the Bachelorette Finale recap we’re breaking down all the current Bach Nation drama with journalist, reporter, and writer, Elizabeth Wagmeister. We talk about Tayshia not being able to host the AFR and Kaitlyn stepping up to own the live event. We also cover the Kaitlyn and Shawn drama and how it seems bitter for Shawn to comment years late. We also dive into how Hannah Brown’s brother is engaged to Jed’s ex, and how weird of a situation that is. We also mourn the elimination of Brandon and wonder if Michelle could really be in love with two people at once, or if she really just had feelings for Nayte. And, finally, we cover our thoughts on Clayton and question why he was chosen as the new Bachelor. “There are people I like and people I wish that made better choices.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Chime: Get started today at http://www.Chime.com/Viall Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @EWagmeister See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to a very exciting episode of the vile files bachelorette final edition recap coming at you right after uh after the final fro final froze froze rose boy it's been a long night and it's only gonna get longer but we have a fantastic episode for you i know we do because we have the one the only returning elizabeth wagmeister from variety she is the pop culture queen and also very serious like you're both pop culture queen fanatic slash incredibly serious reporter doing various serious things multi-talented person bachelor fanatic bachelor fanatic most importantly as it relates to this episode i guess you know pop what did you say pop culture queen sure i don't know i'll take it is that fine and you know every time that i i say i'm a journalist i have people come after me on twitter and they're like you don't

have to say what you are we know so i'm glad you said it and not me it's a funny thing the internet it is we were talking a lot about that while we were we just watched the entire three hours together three hours we sat here we you we are coming at you hot right out right off the press yeah usually there's a whole day of having to stew after i i watch the episode ali and amanda joining us from the East Coast staying up late. Welcome. How are you ladies doing? Good. I didn't realize I lived in the East Coast, but I'm happy to be there if that need be.

I'm sorry. Central time, Minnesota. I'm actually flying through Minnesota to Milwaukee tomorrow. Should I pick you up from the airport? No, I'm not going to be there long, but I will wave from wherever you're staying. Amanda, how you doing? In Boston, happy as a clam. Great, great.

Well, we have a lot to break down before Brandon's literally on his way over, which we'll be conducting that interview next. And so for the people listening, we're going to try to get these episodes out to you as fast as possible. We're going to try to get these episodes out to you as fast as possible. My team will be staying up in the wee hours of the night, working hard, have patience with them and us. But the Brandon episode should be out later today if you're listening to this now. And we will be excited to bring that to you. But before we get to Brandon, let's talk about the finale. Let's talk about AFR.

we get to brandon let's talk about the finale let's talk about afr but uh before we even get to that i know we've been doing our our weekly bachelor hot goss bachelor nation you know whatever whatever whatever it is i know i'm like is it hot goss is it tea i don't know what the the phrasing is yeah and ali's in charge it has become our resident gossip expert. I love it. What do we got? All right. Allie. What's on the menu? What are we breaking down?

I believe we need to start with the elephant in the room. Miss Tasia. She wasn't there tonight due to COVID. She was exposed. So she didn't attend AFR. She posted on her story just a few hours ago saying, quote, it's a little crazy here in New York, and I was recently exposed to COVID. So just as an abundance of caution for Michelle to have her night,

as well as Caitlin and all the crew to produce this live finale tonight, I will not be there in person. As such, Caitlin was our primary host. And I thought she did a great job. She really rose to the occasion. Yeah, very much so. I mean, it's a bummer for Tayshia. What a huge opportunity missed. But yeah, I got to give Tayshia credit for doing the right thing. I don't know if a lot of people in her position... I mean, thankfully, she's COVID-free. As we know, she's only been exposed.

And hopefully, that continues to stay the same. And unfortunate she couldn't make it. But yeah, I mean, I think I tweeted this as well. It's one thing to host at the tell-all, which is pre-recorded. It takes like eight hours to record. It's condensed down to two hours. If you're hosting that, you can fuck up a bunch of times. It's like an actor. You could just do 20 takes i mean they're not you know they hope they don't have to do 20 takes but

you don't have to nail it like and you know when we interviewed chris harrison on this podcast a while back he spent a lot of time just talking about how proud he was of hosting afr and it being live and like what it takes to to accomplish accomplish that. And the sense of pride he felt, it's clearly a hard thing to do. I've hosted a live red carpets, uh, like that were streamed on the internet. This is ABC, the Bachelorette finale and props to Caitlin did an incredible job. There wasn't a single moment where you're thinking, Oh, it's live. You know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't like, oh, let's, it's hard. But like, she messed up just a little bit.

Like, no, it was, you wouldn't know any different between the tell-all that's recorded versus the live. And you got to give props to Caitlin for stepping up and doing an amazing job. Yeah, no, Caitlin did an incredible job. And live TV is hard. We were talking about this, Nick, when we were watching. We've both done live TV and hard. We were talking about this, Nick, when we were watching. We've both done

live TV. And you can't mess up. You really have to think on the fly. And she did a great job. But I did miss Tayshia. And I'm sure she would have done a great job, too. And it's really scary. I mean, just in the time we've been sitting here, we have a mutual friend who texted me to say that he has COVID. Who's in New York. Who's in New York. So it really is. It's going. I mean, just in the time we've been sitting here, we have a mutual friend who texted me to say that he has COVID. Who's in New York. Who's in New York. So it really is. It's going.

I mean, just today I've had four people who I know. Thankfully, I have not seen. I have been at home. I have been safe. But it's everything's going around. I mean, everyone seems to have COVID. Everybody is sick. The flu is going around.

The flu is going around. The cold. Yeah. So I'm glad that Tayshia was staying put and staying safe. And I hope that her exposure was just that and that she doesn't get it. And we missed her. And Caitlin did a great job. An amazing job.

Yeah. Speaking of Caitlin, this is a perfect transition. I have two points on Miss Caitlin. First off. Firecracker up here. All right. So Caitlin reacted to her lovely ex-fiance, Sean Booth, who apparently said that their relationship wasn't, quote, true love.

And Caitlin said, quote, and I was just confused by that because it's been three years. And I thought maybe he would just you know we'd want each other to be happy and she said later in that same interview that he seemed a bit bitter for bringing up their relationship this much later because obviously you know she's gone on and had such success is now engaged very happy and it felt like kind of a weird recurrence if i'm being honest yeah okay so i'm just finding out about this i had not yeah i had not heard about sean's comments i didn't know i saw it on an us weekly article okay so i i was not reading us weekly you know a little busy doing the real news you know so as

you said it was sent to me by a friend to be honest but i mean i couldn't agree with her more so first of all i'm'm going to be really shady, but who is interviewing Sean Booth and why? But I agree with her. There is a segment of Bachelor Nation that stands some Sean Booth. By the way, I loved him when he was on the show, but haven't heard that name in a while.

Wait, so I mean, if you love Sean, I don't know. Oh, yeah, I know. Because I don't know. They're usually two sides. I know, I know. know we won't get into that that's another podcast but i completely agree with caitlin and her commentary why is he talking about it now what do you gain from that other than us talking about it we talk a lot about relationships on this podcast and how the opposite of of love is indifference and and he doesn't sound indifferent

about the relationship that's what i'll say can i can i start some hot goss and ask nick a question and put him on the spot okay so speaking of you know friendly exes or not so friendly exes since since you were saying that caitlin does such a great job have you talked to her like are you what what sort of speaking terms are you guys on? And do you regularly text? No, we do not regularly text at all. We are, I think there's a strong mutual respect that Caitlin and I have for each other.

And I think, you know, and we've talked about this. Caitlin came on the podcast and when she was dating Sean. By the way, for the record of course i'm team nick caitlin and i weren't on the it was a contentious relationship the whole time she was dating sean and uh and we again we've we've talked about this and so since her and sean have broken up and she owned it like she can't just blame sean for everything you know and she's a person but i think since that's been over um i think we appreciate having what's what began as like civil coming from contentious while she was dating sean to you know i think if you've been as long as kane and i have

um there's a mutual respect uh we've we've had a lot of the same ups and downs. And every once in a while, there might be something we reach out to. I did text her before AFR started and wished her good luck and said she'll do great. She talked about how nervous she was. That was so nice of you. She did not, she didn't sound nervous at all. So yeah, she said, what did I say? Yeah did she say we are breaking news here we are in the business of breaking news and starting starting the hot goss uh i said big opportunity good luck tonight you

will be great she said i'm so nervous in all caps and then she said thank you i said don't be you'll be great you're the best when you're having fun enjoy it and you'll be. And then she said, thank you. I said, don't be. You'll be great. You're the best when you're having fun. Enjoy it. And you'll be just fine. And she said, got it. Thank you. Got it. That's what you say to an ex.

You're like, okay, thanks for the nice text. Got it. No. So, yeah, we, I talk more to Jay, with Jason than I do Caitlin. Okay. He's in a, we're in the same fantasy football league. Oh, got it. And so uh yeah but it's it's nice to have what i i think is a strong just mutual respect and i consider her a friend but

we do we don't like on the regular right talk that's great though i love that you guys have this kind of a friendship you know with like ben i mean ashley and jared have just been close friends and like ben's a close friend. But, you know, not only do you have the friendships, but it's nice to have a support system. And again, like it's not like Caitlin and I are like leaning on each other. But I think there's a level of trust and respect that it's nice to just once in a great while we will vent to each other about certain things in our world. Well, you guys, you really like no one has been through the experience that the two of you have. So you have a common understanding.

I was literally just thinking I have so many more questions to ask you about all of the people you love and maybe don't love in Bachelor Nation. And then I realized, wait wait this is not my interview what am i doing that could be i'll have that'll be another time i have a lot of questions for you completely honest about that but yeah okay i'll stop asking the questions everyone i i am the guest today i'm not the interviewer but i have a lot of questions there's people i like there's people i love there's people i like. There's people I love. There's people I like. And there's people I wish made better choices. Okay.

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eligible members use of SpotMe versus $33 average overdraft fee. Overdraft fee data based on bank rate checking account survey and CRL June 2020 overdraft fee overdraft fee data based on bank rate checking account survey and CRL June, 2020 overdraft fees report. Should we continue on our Caitlin train? Because she made a comment. You know, we broke down the whole Caitlin sliding into Morgan's DMS last week and talking about mental all. And she went on the Here for the Right Reasons podcast and made a comment about the whole men tell all and talking with Tayshia before filming started for that. So I didn't know if anyone wanted to know what she said. What did she say?

She said, and I quote, I saw her in the trailer so upset. She was having anxiety. And I was like, quote, you don't have to address this if you don't want to. But I think if you want to have your own voice and be able to, like, just share how you're feeling, it's up to you. End quote. I mean, at the end of the day, as long as she was now, I say, comfortable, she wasn't comfortable with it, but she wanted to address it.

And so we had to put it in there somewhere. And honestly, I was just really proud of how she handled everything because it felt like a true professional. I mean, I don't know. I feel like we've talked about this topic plenty. More than anything, I think the biggest takeaway is... I feel bad for Caitlyn because she clearly was put in the situation at Men Tell All, right? Whatever. We get why the producers would want Tayshia to talk about this, right? It's a promotable moment. She not only was hosting the mental all, but she was recently their bachelorette. And like how convenient to have your most recent bachelorette,

other than like Katie, be like there to talk about her breakup. Like, great. You know, they loved it. So I get why they want to do that. Caitlyn's put on the spot. And I guess to my surprise, what I realized this week, talk about her breakup like great you know they loved i so i get why they want to do that caitlin's put on the spot and i guess to my surprise what i realized this week after like we were we were all trying to figure out like why the fuck would caitlin text morgan this morgan i don't think they're friends it seemed odd but it was like she it's what i realized that i don't know if it was tasia's super fans or stands but like it's is

this apparently caitlin was getting shit on because like they thought that like caitlin like went rogue at the tell-all and said you know what forget about the tell-all pay shot like clearly that didn't happen so right like we're talking about live tv that was not live tv nothing is rogue it's all very planned all very yeah very scripted not i don't know if i'd say but it's there's the beats of the show they they both obviously knew that they were going to address the breakup and i would imagine that it's something that Tayshia wanted to address. And to me, it makes perfect sense. Like, this is your platform. Your platform is the world of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

You just had a breakup that is playing out in the headlines that you addressed on your social media. Why wouldn't you address your fans when you're right there with them live at home and in the studio? So I totally understood why she spoke about it and i mean look breakups are hard enough let alone when you're on a reality show and then when you're you have all this pressure hosting this show on social media so i honestly i thought it was no big deal but she addressed it and i thought it made a lot of sense yeah i don't think anyone really thought it was a big deal it made sense the whole conversation has been centered around like it just felt staged and

inauthentic it wasn't the most authentic moment and like honestly whatever that's why like for me the biggest takeaway is like because then here caitlin's doing another podcast clearly she's like promoting her dancing with the stars stewart stewart she's being asked about it and it's one thing i've had to learn the hard way uh in this space is that when something is written about you especially if you don't like it your instincts are naturally to want to defend defend or say your side and it's not it's unless you need to if you don't love the story it's always better to let the story die than to defend yourself. Because defending yourself will only get people talking about the story. It amplifies it.

And here we are three weeks later after this event, and it's still being discussed because it seems like, listen, nothing has changed my opinion after you hear this. Certain things don't add up to me in terms of like, I get that she had anxiety or whatever, you know it seems like listen nothing has changed my opinion after you hear this certain things don't add up to me in terms of like i get that she had anxiety or whatever but like you know for me it was more like i said before this was me it was more about like the producers i get why they did it i get why taisha would say yes to it but uh she was hired to be a host and i think why the audience you know it's interesting because like nothing will get you in more trouble like you know when she was hired to be a host. And I think why the audience,

you know, it's interesting because like nothing will get you in more trouble. Like, you know, when you talk about villainous and like, I'm getting off a little off subject here, but like people don't like to be misled, you know, like the Brandons in paradise, you know, when they think one thing about you and then realize something else. And this was nothing like

that but people were watching caitlyn and taisha as hosts and then in the middle of the episode it was like i'm the bachelorette and i think people struggled watching with that and that's why it seemed inauthentic and knowing how that world works and the producers saying things like hey listen if you uh you know if you need to walk off stage and it's totally fine and I'm not telling you what to do and you don't have to do it and whatever. And it's just like, I just feel like if, if,

if she was that upset about it, she could have just not talked about it. For me, I'm first of all, like whatever. Second of all, I'm sure she was incredibly emotional about it and upset about it because she just went through a breakup that's playing out publicly. And for me, I'm like, well, of course they're going to talk about it and upset about it because she just went through a breakup that's playing out publicly and for me i'm like well of course they're gonna talk about it to your point

like this is a show the producers want to be able to promote it they teased it top of show and i also think you know would you have said yes to it though i think you were hired to be a host i think if i wanted to talk about it like if I felt like it was something that my fans wanted to hear, because I think that some fans of Bachelor Nation probably did want to hear. You feel responsible. People want me to talk about it. Why not talk about it here? I don't understand why this became a big deal.

We've seen this before. Why are we talking about any of this stuff? But we've seen this before. Like when I'm trying to think of an example, but on talk shows, right? Like if you have your own show and then there's stuff that's being said about you, like Ellen, right? Like when there was stuff said, she addressed on her show. Wendy Williams, when there was stuff being said about her personal life, she addressed it on her show.

Like I feel like people do that because they're saying, I know you're talking about me and I know this is playing out in the tabloids. So have my own show my name's on the show i'm going to speak about it so i i understood that but i also like so what if it was planned of course it was planned the show is everything's planned when i watched it i was like yeah whatever and then but you know here we are talking about it people that was the big discussion i think you know again like i took for granted that it wasn't obvious that clearly caitlin didn't like go rogue on taisha but there i guess for some people watching it you mean the number one question i get if someone watches a walks up to me and

asks about the show is is it real is it scripted is it staged it is a fascination people have and so anything around um you know the authenticity of feelings as it relates to the show people are just hyper hyper sensitive and I think that's why it was even a discussion because you know, people will hate watch the show. They'll love watch the show. As cast members, we get accused of bad acting or, you know, maybe good acting sometimes. Or if you find out if it's revealed on the show that you were acting then you're crucified like the audience has been trained to like have these like hyper sensitive like you know awareness for like inauthenticity so when they see something they need to know like what happened behind the scenes yeah why

does this feel off and i think that's that i'm thinking that's the fascination probably and i do think that you know i said of course it was planned just because something's planned. And I'm not talking about this instance. I'm saying in general with The Bachelor or with with really any reality show, just because something's planned doesn't mean it's fake because you know, it's a TV show. It has to be produced in some sense. You can't just let people run wild especially when you're doing a live show in front of a live audience like there has to be some sort of rundown and some sort of skeleton structure and then things can happen so plan doesn't mean fake necessarily it's staged and you're right not necessarily it's just it can be it can be it can be it's like it's all of the above and like you know it's one of those things too like i made i i shared like a couple like i said and i repeated myself that like my guess was that a producer at some point they agreed to talk about it and at some point they said hey

and if you if you get emotional it's okay to walk off right so like saying something like that isn't telling them what to do they're not saying you have to do it. They're just saying like, listen, I'm once again reminding you that whatever it is you want to feel, you feel. Now, sometimes that leads to incredibly authentic feelings and sometimes it leads to cast people thinking, well, what do they mean by that?

And what should I do? And sometimes we, you know what I'm saying? You get almost too self-aware of the situation you find yourself in. Right. And you play up your emotions. A hundred of people on The Bachelor have done that. I am sure I've done that at times. I was going to say, you have more insight than anyone on this.

But those things happen. Right. And when the audience watches it, they watch it with a hypercritical eye to see if they can catch that inauthenticity. Right. The one thing that I will say on this that I do care about is that I don't think that Caitlin should be getting any hate for quote unquote, setting her up. Like, of course, like I, first of all, I thought that Caitlin's comments about Tasha were

very nice where she was saying like, I was with her before and she was beside herself. And like, that's two girls who are talking before and they know what's going on with the breakup and with emotions running high. So it's not like Caitlyn put her on the spot. It was like, by the way, on national television, you're going to talk about this. Like, they knew that they were going to talk about it. So neither of them, in my opinion, should be getting hate for that moment.

Going along on our train of former bachelorettes making headlines, did everyone see that Hannah Brown's future sister-in-law is Jen Wyatt's ex-girlfriend? That was fucking wild. I don't even understand this. That's wild. I mean, what do you say?

How did this happen? So I saw that yesterday, and I DM'd a link to at least 10 of my friends that were all obsessed with The Bachelor. I was saw hannah this weekend in venice i think like at a restaurant and they said she looked kind of bummed like i wonder if that's why i thought i saw something like uh that they don't follow each other. Like Hannah and her now. They don't. So, so Hannah,

people were like, Hannah didn't like the engagement post that Haley Stevens, the ex-girlfriend now potentially sister-in-law posted. Uh, but they also don't follow each other. So I'm not sure if she would have gone out of her way to go like a photo of this girl. If she's not even willing to follow her.

I don't think that's not nothing. I mean, it's kind of weird not to follow your future sister-in-law right yeah but even more tea is the fact that jed went on instagram and on his story was like you know everyone's been tagging me and you know i've had several tabloids reach out to me for comment. And the only thing I have to say, and I guess it's more of a question, is does he know he's engaged? I feel, I guess, bad for him at this point. He's got to learn to let it go. It was an attempt at a joke. I don't know if it landed.

It didn't. Yeah. Also, like, he has to let it go. He has to let it go. Because I'm sure, like, Jed has as many people I've met in this world like Jed who, like, they don't just accept what they did. And I am sure, I have no doubt doubt that jed took a beating from bachelor nation he didn't deserve because no one deserves to be like crucified for going on this show right right

yes it's a tv show that's why he didn't deserve that and i know and i have been so mad and i've been hard on him but like at the same time like he did do the thing and this whole idea of like whether he was dating or not dating like i know enough that like he he got himself in a situation and instead of and i've had plenty of conversations with producers about this at any point and i think i probably said this on the show had jed just been like listen guys coming on the show i don't know what to expect fuck my guitar i thought i'd sing some songs and there's this girl i'm hanging out with i'm sure you guys heard this story before you know and like she's not my girlfriend but like

like i know she's like expecting me to call her when i'm done and now i'm in love with this hannah girl like help me out and because he was her favorite they would have protected him you know they would have figured it out you know but he just kept lying to everybody he clearly lied to hannah and like avoided this girl and i'm sure they weren't boyfriend and girlfriend i believe. But like he also wasn't innocent. So just own that and move on. I couldn't agree with you more. But for the sake of not shitting on something that he did in the past, let's just talk about the present. Because I have an issue with what he posted on Instagram.

Other than it being a bad joke? Yeah. No one has to say all these tabloids are reaching out to me like no one cares but you like it's fine do you know what i mean like you don't have to call attention to the fact that people want to interview you so first of all as we know hannah just came out with her book and just did a big press tour and he was obviously heavily written about in that book yes so. So, you know, maybe he didn't like that, that there was this kind of big wave of press where his name was brought up again.

But I just, you know, kind of to your point, to bring this back to something that you said, when there's a story that involves you, the best thing to do is stay silent unless you want it to be amplified. So just by- Or sometimes it's responsible for you to address something given its level of seriousness none of which usually happens in bachelor nation

but i feel like after whether it's you know founded or unfounded that he has a lot of haters you don't have to insert yourself again like people already don't like you like why drum it up again did he think that he would post this thing and everyone would be like now we're team jed right you know what yes no jed popped up and people are like i still fucking hate you like if he wanted to do if he wanted to insert himself he should have just done a really benign like i don't even know if it would have been a joke but he could have just been like yep i've seen the news or something like that or he could have even just said like

congratulations to the happy couple like that would have been a not funny funny thing you're right and that's all right and yeah there's a little like yeah i can be wrong too no no you're right because like there's like it well we were just talking about sean in terms of like yeah it's like what you wonder why people decide to bring up old things knowing especially when it doesn't come across clearly the way they hope because like he says it and like who reads this and goes team sean i mean it's not even team sean or team there is no team king team sean anymore right so like why are you asking us to pick a side for something we've all moved on exactly you know like we weren't even talking about it until you brought it up which by the way is the very reason

why they brought it up and like also got like sean and caitlin dated for like two three years three years that's longer than some marriages. I know. So sadly. It also makes him look crazy for saying it's not true love. Like that looks bad on you too, dude. Yeah. Like what is that?

Like Vanessa and I dated for nine months, right? None of which was particularly healthy. We've talked about this. We've acknowledged that like it was just a tough situation. We just weren't a good match, whatever. But like there were real feelings. She was my real girlfriend. Like, to come out and be like, you know, like, it was all, like, what the fuck?

Well, it's just rude. Like, you should have some respect for a person that was in your life for three years. For three years after the show. And here's the thing. Just because you're a public figure doesn't mean that you have license to say whatever you want like sure i get it you came up in this world of fame and on reality tv but to your point like that was a real relationship with real feelings for many years she's a real person just because she happens to be a real person with a big following who is famous doesn't mean you get

to just talk about her like think about in the real world if you weren't famous who does that it's weird it's weird i don't think it's cool back to jed yes despite we i agree with everything you said it's like why bother it doesn't look good you're not you're not garnering the reaction i know you want but assuming jed did nothing so given that hayley and was doing whatever with jed and is now engaged in hannah brown's brother and anyway are we like maybe jet like maybe she was like i mean i have a lot of questions it's not a coincidence you know what i'm saying like i always i i do get defensive of my peers who go on the show and the exes who be like they broke up with me to go on the show and the exes who be like, they

broke up with me to go on the show. It's just like, they broke up with you three months before they were casted. They didn't break up with you going, you know, it's always, it is for the attention. Or they hate that their ex, you know, the person who left them is now, you know, a fan favorite. Right. It's annoying. Right.

So, you know, despite Jed lying about it like i didn't like i didn't have like the highest i didn't know who this person was but whoever she was i wasn't like poor girl i was like you're in on it and now she's engaged in hannah brown's brother like i mean she's not exactly trying to be anonymous yeah and this doesn't just happen like there's a lot of people right no you don't just like oh oh my God, who are you? Oh my God, are you Hannah Brown's brother? So by the way, in my opinion, no one in this situation really comes off totally clean. So yes, I was hating on Jed, but that's because I watched his season and I was already hating

on him for a matter of years. But yeah, how did she Meet him? If I'm Hannah She has a right to be annoyed for sure Of course That's one of the few times where you want to say you met on Tinder You're like I swear we just met on Tinder It's so true I mean

She probably followed him for a while Oh my god what a coincidence we met But here's the funny thing If they did become good friends they could have some really juicy conversations about this common i'm trying to make sure i'm doing this web and correctly in my head but yeah like i need a a family tree in front of me i mean yeah we don't i don't you know nothing about this so it maybe hayley is the coolest perk the coolest hang and like her and Hannah hit it off and they just like become best friends, even though they assume they would hate each other. And by the way, maybe they don't follow each other on Instagram and it means nothing.

Maybe they're like, hey. No, it doesn't mean nothing. I know. No, we're being way, you're being way too generous now. I'm just, I'm putting out a theory. Like what if they're really close and they're like we don't even want to enter this in the public fray so not a chance no i think it's possible it's possible like hannah could be like i don't want to like this person that happens a lot you don't want to like someone you meet them you're

like fuck i like you right now but i don't think that's what's going on i really want to hear hannah's take on this i'm i'm honestly i'm very invested. She's got to be so annoyed. I need to know how they met. I want to know if her and Hannah are friends. Do they hate each other? What do they talk about? If anyone from Hannah Brown's team is listening to this podcast, that would be a great way to do like a little excerpt and like a new

edition of her book. Oh, yeah. Add in a chapter. We just did. would call fuck haley so we just did a great hannah just did a great writing my coattails like what um hannah just did a great interview with us at variety about her book and i wish we didn't do it yet because i you know maybe we'll set up another interview to find out about this like you know what if you're gonna like kind of like just do this to me couldn't you have done this a month ago right but

you're so right that I mean she could release the hardcover right and then have an extra chapter no which is only good if it's she hates her right because if she goes to the next chapter like oh turns out she's the best we're like okay good for you right right we we gotta get to the bottom of this i'll use my investigative skills to find out it's honestly i saw this and i was like no i was like they're fucking with us this can't be true i wish them the best i do wish them the best and i and by the way we don't like family feuds and family drama like that's not to me that's not cool families should be close i'm incredibly lucky to be close with my future sister-in-law and her whole family so i do hope that her and hannah don't have beef but it sounds a little fishy we don't always like i have a large family and i won't give a lot of detail but like

you don't always love the people they pick you know and you just have to accept it i know you make it work and you're just like but to share a common x like that's that's dirty that's not cool that's different they don't really share an x that's what's so bizarre about you're like what's the you know it's her it's so i know we need a diet like a venn diagram in front of us i'm very confused i'm like what are they like are they what like what do you call that if they had a sense of humor if i don't know if anyone in this story has a sense of humor but if they did they have jed play at their wedding no i think it'd be great just let bygones be bygones notice the three women here were like

i think it'd be great but i mean this is how we start rumors but you heard it here first my friend saw hannah out and about and she looked sad i'm totally making nothing i'm making something out of those are my least favorite rumors of like i know i shouldn't be doing god only knows what could have been going on in hannah brown's mind when her friend your friend saw her look sad i look sad all the time even when i'm like happy people are like what's wrong i'm like what are you talking about i know by the way for the record i want to say that was a joke i'm not starting a rumor and again she just did a fabulous interview with us her book is great i just we need to know more hannah please write more tell us what happened tell us about your brother's engagement we need to know on a scale of one to ten is it 11 that would be a good

promotable piece for i mean the next season you can follow i don't like everyone i follow on instagram right i mean but not following is a statement not following is something it's a statement i comment i support i like pictures i'm like people i'm like not even a super fan right of but like you know what i'll just and she's going out of her way to be like, no, I'm not following you. I know. You're right. You're right. Yeah. We got to know. That's what we want.

We need like an after the final rose, but a special, just like Jed, Hannah, family tree. What's really going on? So much bachelor tea. I mean, I guess we have to get, I think we need to talk about the finale. You know, it's okay. Cause we have to get i think we need to talk about the finale uh you know it's okay because we have brandon coming in people will be tuning into that episode and i'm sure brandon will give us a lot of the tea i mean like what's what's to talk about here i mean i think we all started this

episode knowing it was going to be nate thinking it was going to be nate michelle you know we spent a lot of time last episode discussing the dynamics like we we recapped last week like assuming she's picking nate right and so we had the discussions of how fascinating it was to have a bachelorette like michelle so thoughtful and self-aware and someone who talks openly about like learning from the past and mistakes and again who knows about the edit but the the edit of nate was michelle going down the path of what she's familiar familiar with of what she wants not necessarily what she needs you know you got the warnings from the mom and nate's stepdad and yeah afr they did the casual like oh just kidding everyone likes

each other and we support this and like you know what do we want to believe what's true um you know you weren't here last week to talk about it what what are your overall thoughts on not necessarily i mean obviously we're rooting for nate Nate and Michelle and congratulations to the happy couple. But while you were watching it, what were your opinions about Michelle's kind of thought process as she was going through her final three and got to her final two and then ended up with Nate? So, first of all, as you said, congrats to the happy couple. I'm interviewing them very soon. So I'm excited to chat with them. So I will say that my feelings for them as a couple grew a lot more in the finale and then the episode prior, because they look really, really happy together. And on AFR, like I believed that happiness. Now

we've seen people be happy before and then we you know things change but they seemed incredibly happy I I do think that he seemed a bit immature in my eyes on the show on the show but then as we got to know him more I really loved him but here's my main issue, which I think is working against him being Nate, but also everyone on the show, is the main question and the doubt that was being cast on him was, is he ready to be engaged? And why does it have to be an engagement? You know, I love the Bachelor franchise. If there's one thing I want it to change, but then I know it's not like the big splashy

ending we all want, is why does it have to be an engagement can't like if they eliminated that and if it was just nate and michelle end up together then there wouldn't even be that question and people wouldn't be doubting him correct because that's crazy you do get the free ring out of it you know like if i was on the fence like you do get the neil lane ring and so it's like might as well like give it a shot and see if you keep the diamond. Great point. I honestly think most people like, and no disrespect to Neil, love Neil, love your jewelry. You're a legend, Neil Lane.

You're just not thinking about the free ring. Right. You're just like. But great point. Like if I don't have to get engaged um like you're you're comfortable like just dating i think i can speak for most people that like no one pressures you but there's pressure i don't know how else to say it um but um but you're right and it's just one of those things we were talking about while we're watching it you know and the past couple seasons that we've seen the non-engagement but the possibility of engagement

and having michelle get engaged and getting back to like what the show has been about even though they're in recent seasons there's been these non-engagements as it gives stakes and the final episode i mean this episode wasn't about who she's going to pick. Let's be honest. It was about will, will Nate and Michelle be happy at the end? Like what will Nate say to make Michelle feel more comfortable? Interesting enough. Like when they were,

we were talking about this, like also it does put Nate in a tough position. Like we've been kind of tough on him the past couple episodes, you know, like I didn't really understand, even though like it seemed to work for michelle and everything she was waiting to hear but nate's like like i said i brought two suits you know and i'm like and she's like that's what i was waiting for i was like all right well this fits for the paddleboarding like theme of like you just like i i'm shocked you have two suits paddleboard guy right you know he's like i just i didn't know what to expect but i'm here like one of them's a wetsuit you know but i will say i really believe that he was falling in love and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with not having been in love before so if he is falling in love with michelle

i think that's great and then I think there was so much pressure put on, well, are you ready to get engaged? Are you ready to get married? So when you're being asked that question, he has to think about it. And of course he's going to say yes, but in the real world, you'd be a psycho if you propose to someone after six or seven weeks. So I'm teammate. Like, I believe that he was falling in love with her. And then when he's asked the question, he's like, well, yeah, this very moment, very moment like yes i think i do want to marry her but it's been like a few weeks plus when you get asked those questions especially in that in that world like you said like these questions are presented whether it's a producer or even the family members or just yourself given what you agreed to go on

it's like are you ready because if you're not you're what you agreed to go on, it's like, are you ready? Because if you're not, you're going to burn in hell. You know, like it's framed as if like you have to defend your like honor as a human being. You're defending yourself for not being like psychotic and for being sane. You're like, if I brought a guy home. Of course I'm ready for marriage. Why would I be ready for marriage? Like, what are you saying?

I'm like, you know, and so it's. If I brought a guy home to my parents after a few weeks and my parents would never be like well are you ready to propose they'd be like you're proposing they'd be like hold on we like you pump the brakes it's like i you know brandon like first day like he's in her dad's like swimsuits and he's like is it cool if i like marry your daughter i know i know by the way my favorite thing is i should have had my dad watch tonight my my dad is unfortunately not a regular bachelor viewer but when i have had him watch with me it is so fun like there should be an after show called like middle-aged dads watching bachelor first of all my dad predicts the winner every single time he

predicts who the villain's gonna to be. He, spot on. But no, but look, bringing it all back to them, at this moment, I really do believe that they are so into each other. They seem super happy. I thought Michelle, we were talking about this, she was such a breath of fresh air. She, to me, really, I hate to use this phrase, but really seemed to be there all for the right reasons.

I did not think that she was doing this for the fame. I didn't think she was doing this for the Instagram following. I feel like she is just a class act. She's so elegant. By the way, had the best wardrobe out of any bachelorette. Stunning. Also, Tayshia. Tayshia had great wardrobe in her season.

But I mean, Michelle, the dress that she wore i guess two episodes ago with the cutouts like the blue gown with the cutouts all the jewel tones were like so fantastic shout out to the wardrobe department they must have upped the budget this season i mean certainly like was different than last season i mean she i mean she is a stunning woman, but the styling was great. But no, I'm a fan of Michelle. I am not going to name names. I didn't love a more recent season of The Bachelorette. You didn't love Katie's season. I did not.

And I really loved Michelle's season. We were talking about this before, right? And people have talked about, like, we love Michelle. It's been a breath of fresh air to watch and to cover. But people, like, the critics, not necessarily about Michelle, is like they, people, some people have said this is a boring season. Right? It's just, and I guess technically you could argue that it has been

because Michelle is not your atypical bachelorette. She is more self-confident and and thoughtful and she doesn't react she's slow to react they love a bachelorette who's quick to react it's better it's better tv you know being a boring tv is often a compliment to you as a human being right totally um like i would want to be michelle's friend in real life yeah Can't say that for every lead of this franchise, but I loved watching their season. Totally. And Michelle's season,

it's like, it's been, you know, and again, this show, we often like, not only do we cover the, the bachelorette or the bachelor,

we spend more of our time talking about relationship dynamics and, and learning about how we can communicate and all all the all those things and uh and so it was nice to have a bachelorette like michelle to like give us some like thoughtful takeaways about relationships and what we've learned and watching it back we were talking about like comparing the past two seasons like katie's season in general was kind of toxic also like wild to watch but like it had a very there are a lot of conversations about toxicity right and and this season was like just calming and nice and we had a final four of like just some great guys and we're just we're rooting for all of them you know we're rooting for roddy we're

rooting for joe we're rooting for brandon and nate and like we had to like find things to be like and maybe nate's a fuck boy or brandon's too young but we were we were really reaching you're right in terms of like which is kind of nice it is kind of nice and i do think i mean at least in recent memory her final four this was the classiest bunch I can remember I mean even when they were heartbroken and being sent home like when you saw Joe being sent home he was devastated but he was so respectful of her feelings and he was so mindful of her feelings and her happiness and the same with Rodney and I by the way I was heartbroken I loved Rodney. And I, by the way, I was heartbroken. I loved Rodney. But like, I truly, this sounds so cheesy, but I'm like, I truly can't wait to read the story given that these people will continue to be of public interest.

I can't wait to read the story when I hear that they've all found their match and that they're getting married. You know, I can't wait for like Bachelor. You're invested in their love story. Yeah. Well, I just think that they're all great guys and respectful. And I do, I hear what some people are saying that this was a more calm season but i think for a franchise that has gone on for this long it's good to have the ups and downs you know not every

season can be a train wreck and i mean that is a compliment like you can't be glued to your tv because all of the craziness every season. You need some calming, more realistic leads as well. And like, listen, Katie season was fun to watch. It was also like toxic and exhausting. I was exhausted. It was fun to recap. It also exhausting too, right? And so, but to your point, I think the balance is needed.

I couldn't handle that another season like that. And it was a breath of fresh air. By the way, I'm still shocked that Katie and Blake broke up. I really thought that they would make it for at least a bit longer. I thought that they would make it when they got engaged, but I can't, you know, we don't have to talk about that, but just a little side note. Now we all love Michelle. Yes. but just a little side note um now we all love michelle yes but but i do want to ask a question

because as often as asked on these and what happens in the finale is the word loves thrown around and then we start you know once the lead makes the decision it's kind of like can you be in love with two people michelle infusively said the morning after her fantasy suite with Nate, I'm in love with you. And that was a really nice moment. And we're also filming a TV show. Keep in mind, right?

So, uh, when they capture a great moment, the, again, as what the producers are good at is adapting. It's not scripted. It's structured.

It's sometimes very staged but they they create a world and they let it play out and they really don't know what's going to happen so here is michelle the bachelorette who wakes up and on camera in the morning off she's like i'm i'm fucking in love with you i love you and that was the first time michelle told nate she's in love with them and i'm pretty sure that they were like not our favorite thing that happened right there but we got to show it right now michelle we have a problem you just said the guy that you're gonna pick that you're in love with him so how do you feel about brandon right exactly are you in love with him too right he's a pretty good guy like you're

in love with him right you know and i have no idea if that happened but i do know that like the question is and so your michelle's put in a position to try to justify her feelings for brandon every lead is by the time she gets to someone like Brandon has a ton of respect and feelings, but I just don't think you can be in love with two people. And Michelle's put in a position to, I don't know what you want to call it, but do you think you can be in love with two people? Because I can buy, I love two people,

I respect two people, I care about two people, I'm falling in love with two people. But in love? And if you can, does that dilute the intensity of the feelings of the person you end up with? I think so. So I was going to say that I do think that you can love two people, but you cannot be in love. But I think this show creates a world where you are in this bubble of filming and emotions are running at an all time high. And I could see just these emotions like going haywire.

And you have this really great moment because you know better than me, but you actually it's a matter of hours that you're with each person. So if you're with this person, it's like one thing can kind of flip everything. So if you have this great moment, you're like, oh my God, I'm in love with you. And then you could also feel the pressure to have to say it to someone else. But no, I do not think that you actually really can be in love with two people at the same time. And I do think that it muddies the strength of the feelings. Like if I were watching this back, I would be really sad if I was like, wait, you told me that you love me, but you just told someone else that you love me. Like I would feel really bad about that.

You know, though, I will say, you know, our strengths are often our weaknesses. Our weaknesses are often our strengths. And the past couple episodes, we've been lightly critical of nate and like potential fuckboy characteristics to maybe just like may like you like maybe just carefree his life however in this particular situation that you bring up i think nate makes the perfect partner you know like sean booth was not a chill guy you know i think caitlin had to do some maneuvering by the way nick you have a bone to pick it just came up like i'm just like it resonated no he's fine but like in the moment he wasn't a chill guy and again like say what you want like i caitlin was responsible for her choices but

like for three years like caitlin and i caitlin was not allowed to have a relationship with me that's not like normal right right and my point is and listen it's fine i a lot of people can empathize with sean or a lot of people who like and like as you just pointed out what would be a hard thing to hear and yet nate is a guy who comes across as like he doesn't seem to sweat the small stuff big nate doesn't sweat the small stuff yeah by the way so tall yeah so tall when he proposed and got down we were saying this, I was like, oh my God, he got down on one knee and he was like almost as tall as Michelle on his knee. But no, going back to what you were saying, I, what I actually really loved about Nate, again,

I didn't like that he was being attacked. That's probably too strong of a word, but for not being potentially ready to propose. And I agree with you, that actually speaks to the fact that there wasn't really anything wrong to say about him. It's like you were searching for something. But what I did love with him is we were kind of seeing like this little boy energy of someone falling in love for the first time. Like he had this enthusiasm and he seemed so excited

and it seemed so genuine. It just felt like he was discovering all these feelings for the first time. And I really believed that as a viewer. Totally. Honestly, his stepdad really fucked it up for him. Because if it weren't for his stepdad being like, I know this guy and he's not ready.

I know. By the way, yeah, I took issue with that. I would be so pissed. Yeah. If you found out that your stepdad went behind your back and did that. Listen, maybe he's not wrong. And who knows what will happen with Nate and Michelle

and every relationship that starts in Bachelor Nation, the odds are stacked against you. So like- I know. You know, a variety and many publications, we cover inclusivity and representation and how much it matters. And I do have to say,

it was a very big deal to finally see that the final four men were all men of color. Is this the first? This is the first winning couple that is two people. A black couple. People, yes, two people of color. And I mean, it's just, it matters. You know, it's easy to kind of gloss over that but to see these love stories represented on tv in general we're not seeing many black love stories certainly not as many as white stories so

i how many total seasons of the bachelor and bachelorette have there been i don't even know there's well this was season i know that's because i write like headlines after right season blah blah this was season 18 of bachelorette and clayton season coming up which i'm very excited for is season 26 so there's been a lot of seasons but this is the first but this is a like tv and film wide problem by the way you know this is an industry wide problem and i actually you know i want to give a like i'm giving kudos like i think it's a really big deal. And I spoke to Michelle a bit about representation in my first interview with her before her season

airing and just what it means to hold this title and to have this platform. And even though it's a question that's asked over and over again, it was something that she was really proud of. You know, she's like, I am very proud that little girls who look like me can be at home and can watch a love story really transpire to millions of viewers. So it is a big deal. And it is something that we should still shout out. And we need to continue to see more of it. Let's talk a little Brandon. What? Obviously, welcome to the club, Brandon, by the way. Yeah. What's your advice? Well, I can't spoil that. You're about to talk to him. That was a real cry.

It was a real cry. Yeah, that's my biggest takeaway. And I haven't seen a real cry like that since Blake and before Blake myself. Now, Brandon, my real cry wasn't on camera. And so it's possible. But there's a lot of runner-ups. I just don't buy it. And I'm sure possible. But like, there's a lot of runner ups. I just, I don't buy it. And I'm like, I'm sure they like them.

And I know they're sad. But like, you know, they're going to be fine. But Brendan was broken. He was. And I believe that. Like, I believed those emotions. He was another one that grew on me. I mean, I not that I mean, I never had anything bad to say about him,

but I thought he was. I this is a compliment to Michelle and not a diss to him, so I don't want to come off this way, but she's just such an impressive woman to me that I just thought that she was kind of out of his league. I thought that he seemed kind of like a little boy next to a strong woman. But then at the end, I was was like, oh my gosh, you are really I mean really heartbroken and my heart like it Broke for him. I I believed it. So I correct myself And he grew on me a lot. Okay I mean he has a boyish look. I mean, yeah, and that's on his fault like just because he has a baby face He's adorable

It's on his fault. Like, just because he has a baby face, he's adorable. It's not his fault. I had the exact same thought where at first I thought he was a little bit too, like, puppy love with Michelle. But it's like, Nick, it goes back to the point that you hit home a lot, which is that, like, people's best moment on the show is when they get eliminated. Because it was so impressive to see Brandon face that kind of immense disappointment and handle that with so much like class and kindness and compassion well broken yeah i agree hard to do you do learn the most about people at their worst

moments yeah and brendan i mean like i think we were pretty hard on him like out of the limo i mean he gave kind of some fuckboy energy too like because i remember he came out in a bed and was like i just want you to know what it's like to wake up next to me and i was like how about you want to know what it's like to wake up next to her but he grew on me but yeah i mean that is not the the brandon i expected to be incredibly thoughtful and grandiose and just a true romantic i you know he did say an afr and what i want to ask him about it he was just like i don't usually talk this way and he did not come across as a man who he just walked in the in the studio so now we're talking about him can you hear us out there

probably we're talking about you he he did not uh he seems like he knows what he's talking about um so we'll have to ask him about that yes what are the questions that we should we ask well i actually have a question for you because you were talking about how you were one of the only real criers um even though you say we didn't see that moment my big cry wasn't on camera right so here's my question obviously the emotions on the show are real but they're also expedited and heightened because you have all these cameras around you and you know that you have to make a decision and this world were you like wow that cry and those feelings were real and genuine i was broken because of this person or was it all like oh this was like a crazy kind of world that i was in well it happened to me twice there are two different experiences the first one was the real the real cry which one are you referring to

andy's it was a real cry i was just so like broken and it was like my world i had no like with caitlin's it was different i was a little more angry because of like the history we had and i was just like i was like send me home whenever you know it's not me like i'm not here like i just it's cool to send me home and like i was you know again we've talked about this she did me a favor but i didn't appreciate in the moment but uh and with andy it was harder to get over because the producers with me afterwards i was like i got to get over it and they were like me i think she's still into you and they tried to get me to come down to mexico and like they were making me think like she was like questioning her decision it was like that cool yeah uh yeah like there's things i wasn't thrilled about that they did. And that was definitely one of them.

You know, so it dragged out after AFR. I was like, once the season was done wrapping, but from the time of AFR, from the time of wrapping and filming, I was still with Andy. I was still very much a mess just because they kept making me think that there might be a shot. There was a chance. Yeah. And then when Caitlin and I broke up, I was like, she made her choice. I gave it my all.

Clean breaks are always easier. Always. It took me a couple weeks to shake it. But with Caitlin, I wasn't thinking about the past. I wasn't wondering the what ifs and what, why, you know, it was just like,

I got my answer. I need to move on. Yeah. But it's tough. Yeah. I was just curious to get your perspective, like now looking back because maybe you'll share that with, with our,

we'll, we'll see how he's feeling. He has no idea. We're talking about, can he hear us? He can hear us. Okay. hear us okay yes okay um big fans all right before we let you go uh you've interviewed clayton we've been tough on the clayton selection i still think it's going to be an entertaining season to watch what are your

thoughts uh you've met clayton how do you think it's going to be? I know Rob Mills, friend of show, who was part of the selection process, believes in Clayton. He was tweeting us about this. I think that's what you're referring to. So, OK. So, first of all, I cover I'm a fan of The Bachelor, but I also cover it for us at Variety, which means that I get inside scoop and I report on it. So from the time that Clayton was selected and we were one of the outlets that broke that story right away, I was hearing from people that the producers just fell in love with him and like he was a great guy. So when I hear that from my sources, I'm like, okay, like there's obviously something here that they chose him for. So I was already

interested in learning about him. But so yes, I just interviewed him. It was on Zoom. So I was already interested in learning about him. But so yes, I just interviewed him. It was on Zoom. So I haven't met him in person because COVID protocols. But I have to say, and this is not to say anything bad about past leads, but I've been covering the show for a while. I interview every single lead both prior to their season airing and then at the end after their finale. And you can tell a lot about the person. Of course, it's a rather short interview and they're trained for what they can say because they can't give away spoilers. You can still tell a lot about a person. He was one of the nicest guys and so genuine that I've ever interviewed from the franchise. And I had such a good time talking to him. We were joking around from the second that I

got on the Zoom interview. He was so warm, so welcoming. Just a really polite guy. Seems very real, which I appreciated. I did ask him, I was like, so you kind of broke the rules buddy like why did you tell three girls that you know you love them we were just talking about this with michelle and he i'm going to tease it but he gave a good answer and my interview isn't up yet so here's my shameless plug be sure to check it out i will say i have heard that uh he's a nice guy and like he's he like in a ben higgins kind of like just in a genuine way he takes the time to really make everyone he meets feel noticed yes right scene and i think that's a quality that not everyone possesses right but also good for the bachelor yeah but also like as a reporter i hate to say this but like we can smell when it's bullshit, right? Like, we know, like, oh, like, you're not actually, like, this person.

You're just being polite because I'm a reporter and you want me to do a good interview with you. He really seemed very genuine. So, I am an initial fan of his. I'm excited for his season. I mean, it looks great. We were talking about, like like the drama looks so good. I think it's going to be fun to watch. I'm excited.

I'm all for it. Very catty. I am all for it. And after a very level-headed season with Michelle, I'm ready to bring back the toxicity. There you go. See, it can all be level-headed. Let's bring it back, baby. We got to have some drama and some catfights.

Elizabeth, always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. Please come back for Clayton's season. Yes, I would love to. Wonderful. I'll see you in 2022. i would love to wonderful i'll see you in 2022 uh i know you mentioned your interview with clayton but also please uh let the people know everything else you're doing yes so you can check out the interview with clayton also my

interview with michelle and nate on variety.com and then you can follow me at e wagmeister that is my social handle for all social platforms and we have a new show at variety called the take that is where clayton's interview will be featured and we've got to get you on there nick let me know okay you're invited to the take and i'm invited back here all right see you soon all right thanks for listening guys uh be sure to keep listening or looking for our interview with brendan that we'll we'll be conducting as soon as we kick Elizabeth the hell out of here. But no, all seriousness, we love having you here. It's been great.

Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget also to send in your questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com. Cast with a K for Ask Nick episodes every Monday. And other than that, we'll see you in a few. you