The Viall Files - E370 Bachelor Tea - Teddi Faces Off with Nick

Episode Date: January 18, 2022

We are back with another Bachelor related episode, diving into the world and drama of Bachelor Nation. Today, we are joined by Former Bachelor Producer, TV Host, Correspondent, and Founder of Heart Broken Anonymous, Naz Perez. While there is no new episode of The Bachelor itself we kept ourselves busy by talking about the hot goss in Bachelor Nation. Also we got Teddi on with us, so that we can interview her about whether she thought her behavior was manipulative or not. We talk about the spectrum of manipulation, how people in healthy relationships manipulate, and how sometimes it’s important to get what you want. We also talk about how the show has changed with social media, the pull of why people watch each season, and the ever expanding Reality Television Cinematic Universe. We also address the Cassidy FWB situation and how her approach shows she isn't ready for love. “You’re giving me a lot more credit than I deserve.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Marley Spoon: Sign up today at http://www.MarleySpoon.com and use code VIALL to get $120 off your first five boxes.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nazperez @teddiwright See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to an exciting new episode of the vile files bachelor bachelor gossip edition there's no episode this week but we've been well just critiquing decisions people's decisions posts

decisions words and since there's no episode but there seems to be a lot of content out there we figured

we'd still bring you an episode see how this shakes out I can't wait to get into all the Bachelor tea that we're going to talk

and talk with Teddy it's going to be great. Just a housekeeping note. I know Taylor Thompson was supposed to be our guest tomorrow. Unfortunately, Taylor had a very last minute thing come up that is unavoidable. She couldn't come in and record with us today.

We're definitely going to have her back. ASAP. Naz is going to be premiering our new segment that we're going to be doing on Wednesdays with our guests. You're going to be a guest for talking about heartbreak as the founder of Heartbroken Anonymous and help us dissect some pop culture-related stuff

going on as a co-host of VNews and kick off our new segment called Mediation. Wow. Which we are going, if you listen to the Ask Nick episodes. What a time to be alive. I know. If you listen to the Ask Nick episodes, this is not an Ask Nick. It's like a version of Ask Nick.

It's Ask Nick-esque. Ask Nick, we do like the long form. People come on, share their stories. I met this guy six months ago. You know, we dated for a couple of weeks. We tried to set some boundaries. We failed. I'm not sure. We started sleeping together. Then he disappeared for a week and now he's back. And then his cousin, I don't know, whatever's going on. Someone owes me money. I hear a one sided version of the story. I try to give them an honest point of view of what I'm hearing from them

and people seem to really enjoy it because it helps us date. It's often about dating. Date a little bit more honest with ourselves is the goal of the ask Nick. This is couples calling in about a particular disagreement. They're having a hard time getting on the same page. And they've decided to get free mediation from a podcast personality as opposed, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's like the people's court-ish. It's a Judge Judy-esque, if you will. They are not required to do anything I say.

Five Hail Marys and a Godfather. Nick is not responsible for any- Any relationship. Any assets that aren't made in your part during the divorce. And it's something I, when the show started, we had our guests help us with Ask Nick before we spun it off to its own show. That's fine.

And we're going to bring this kind of fun mediation with our guests. I think people will really enjoy it. So be sure to tune in tomorrow for mediation and a conversation about heartbreak. With Nick and Naz. And pop culture with Nick and Naz. Love it. Not all heroes work.

So let's get to Bachelor. You ready for some Bachelor hot gossip? So ready. Great. You can rate our podcast on Spotify. So if you listen to this podcast on Spotify, it gives us five stars. We also, we have Teddy calling in to the show today.

Last week on the episode, I made an argument that I thought Teddy's words were manipulative in nature towards Clayton. As if that Teddy knows the assignment

and it seems to me that Teddy's goal, and I don't necessarily fault her for it. I'm just pointing out what I saw, that she's here to play the game more than maybe love, even though she's trying to sell it as love. Combination of like, hey, I'm a virgin. I'm willing to go to the fantasy suite. Check. She's checking boxes.

Clayton, she was waiting for Clayton. No one knows who Clayton is, but Teddy knows who Clayton is. to go to the fantasy suite check she's checking boxes clayton she was waiting for clayton no one knows who clayton is but teddy teddy knows who clayton is and uh and then her talking about how emotional she's getting after seeing with clayton with other women seemed a bit manipulative to me so we'll we'll ask teddy about her thoughts see what she has to say about it give her give her an opportunity to speak on my accusations my biggest question goes back to what you were saying last week of you know what it's like to be in the environment you got the first impression rose like it's day two yeah so my question to her would be you know it

were the emotions were you really this attached to clayton at this point i guess it goes along with your point of view. And again, we all can be and have been manipulative in relationships. In fact, Natalie and I this weekend were kind of joking about the games we play.

For example, I took a picture of us. She wasn't, I was going to post it. She wasn't like, it wasn't her favorite photo. I'm like, I don't know. It's good.

I like it. I'm posting it. And she goes, I don't know. I just don't know if you look I'm posting it. And she goes, I don't know. I just don't know if you like, it's not my favorite photo of you. Was it the one of you guys in the car together? Yeah.

How did I know that already? And she was like, yeah, it's not my favorite photo of you. She knew it. I looked at her and she laughed because I knew what she was trying to do. Like we're constantly playing chess in terms of, and that's technically manipulative. Is it manipulative or is it just being unclear?

And I can't wait for Teddy to get, yeah, we should probably tell people. Naz Perez, my friend, former Bachelor of Producer, that's how I met Naz, was on Clayton Bristol's season. Also, you're all over the place. You are an e-news correspondent. You started Heartbroken Anonymous. You do stuff for the Dodgers. Yeah. You're all over.

I'm all over Rotten Tomatoes. I'm all over it. But more importantly, my friend and Naz will be helping me critique Bachelor Nation. Can I just say something before we get started? Sure. I'm so proud of you. Okay. Thanks. What did I do? I just, I think coming from someone like I remember meeting you in Ireland and Caitlin Bristow season, cause you kind of, I don't want to use the word ambush cause that's not the right word, but you kind of came out of left field on that season. Ambush is strong. Ambush is strong.

But I see what you're saying. Yeah. It was an unexpected sort of meeting. And I don't know, just having seen you pre-being The Bachelor, pre-Vile Files, I'm just so proud of you. You didn't think I could do it? No, of course you could have. But it's fun being on the sidelines of that journey. Are you proud of yourself? Because this is a big deal. is a huge podcast guys uh uh yeah i guess when i allow myself to pat myself on the back i suppose i'm worthy of it from time to time i have a hard time doing

that i think you struggled with the fact that you could offer a unique perspective when it came to bachelor nation and a part of you had to somewhat grapple with like you do listen it's uh you know you try to carve out one lane we do the relationship and dating advice space going really well on the ask nick editions of the vile files and that's taking off and you feel a lot of sense of pride and then yes it's i know people like it. People like my perspective. There's always going to be the critics of, you know, you try to branch out and you think you are, and they're like, but you still fucking about that. You know, it's like one of those things.

So yes, it's something that we as a show have embraced. And you've embraced. I think I just wanted to acknowledge that because I think a lot of people, right, from Bachelor Nation jump into this space because they think it's the right next move. And I think I just saw you, Nick, sort of grapple with it, but it's something that is just so innate and genuine in you to talk about relationships and love and to speak on it and have like a unique perspective and opinion on it. Well, thank you, Nat. I like the way the show went

about it because, you know, we. I like the way the show went about it because we started more relationship with dating and then we accepted the assignment of covering Bachelor Nation a year into the show. You're saying it like you don't love it. No, it's actually quite fun sometimes. Yeah, it is fun sometimes. It is definitely the segment of the show

that causes the most personal stress. Interesting. Why is that? Because everyone's stress. Interesting. Why is that? Because everyone's so damn sensitive. I feel that way too as someone who was a producer on the show and who's a TV host now. Right? And that's so fun to play with that duality where I'm like, I don't care what anyone's doing.

Live your life. Live your truth. Make the mistakes. That's how you learn. And then another part of me is like, well, should they have done that? Would I have done that? And I think that's what's fun, right? That's why this discussion in your podcast is so fun. Because when we talk about these things, for me at least, it just opens a larger discussion on all that stuff that we love, love connecting and how people connect in general. Yeah. Yeah. No, people, because it's my least favorite,

I'll say favorite, like sarcastically, is anytime we talk about someone in Bachelor Nation, again, just so you know, the rules of this show are, we discuss things that people in Bachelor Nation will platform themselves. If they put it on their social, if they promote it themselves, if they do an interview and say something,

if they're seen out in public doing things that we can verify. We don't comment on rumors or speculation or like, I heard so-and-so. Because then it's like, hmm. That's where it feels icky in your body, right? Because yeah, then you're playing- But if it's already out there, it's sort of like, okay, people are talking about this. They're putting it out there, right? On some level, they are doing it. You know, people they're dating or whatever, or people, you know.

And then, you know, so we'll talk about it. And it's always like, there's always a handful of people who'd be like, like, why are you so obsessed with me? Or like their fans would be like, there's like this, and I'm like, I'm just fucking like, I'm just commentating.

Stop doing stupid shit. And we won't. Comment on it. But that's what's so fun is that's why I can't wait for Teddy to come on because you also give people the platform and the opportunity to sort of like say where they're coming from. Which is why it's fun to play tennis like that. And I do want to give Clayton a lot of credit

because we have as a show been hard on him. I've heard. No, I'm just saying I've heard and I- Well, it's more of the casting, but he hasn't taken it personally. We've corresponded briefly via the DMs a little bit. And I give him a lot of credit because he seems like someone who doesn't seem to,

he's doing a good job of not being the main character in his own story, which would be very easy to do for any lead of the show to do. And I give him a lot of credit for not, he understands that it's not like a personal thing, you know, because, you know, and it makes me really looking forward to get to know Clayton, the person, Clayton, the bachelor, like, you know,

we're just counting on what we see. And I actually, Nick, I kind of agree with you as someone who I worked on the show for two and a half years, seven seasons collectively, five of Bachelor, Bachelor in Paradise, Bachelorette, and then two spinoffs on Freeform. And I do think, I think when it was announced,

I just want to say I agree with you, where I think when it comes to casting, yeah, we can see more dynamic people in that chair, right? But at the same time, I just want to remind people listening, for those of you that were born maybe around the same time I was born, it's sort of like when it comes to reality television, it's sort of like the hills in a way where Lauren Conrad wasn't really dynamic. It was really everything going on around her. And at the end of the day, are we all deserving of love? I roll my eyes when I say that line. Yes, right? So, of course, you want to put someone in the seat that's super rootable and that's really exciting

sometimes, but sometimes it's okay to have a Clayton, right? Because we are all deserving of this and see and sort of watch and see what happens around him. I think it's a really nice way of saying it because you're right. I think, listen, this is a fun season so far. It's a mess. And Clayton is the vessel that's allowing us to have the mess take place.

We've talked about this before. Michelle, a very mature, we learned a lot. This is like, it was a masterclass on like kind of date you know in a messy world that is you know 2022 with social media and access and like the bachelors like this kind of hyperbolic chamber of those things right and what a what a great way to watch someone like handle situations not necessarily the best TV. 100%. I agree with you on that. And Clayton is the vessel

that is giving us the juice. Right. So thank you. He's the Lauren Conrad. Yeah. So thank you. He's not saying no

to drama. You know, so we have to... He's embracing the experience that he has signed up for and is in. If you haven't heard of Martha Stewart

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using code V-I-A-L-L for $120 off your first five boxes. Once again, go to MarleySpoon.com and use promo code V-I-A-L-L to get $120 off and enjoy delicious meals from Martha Stewart every day of the week. So shall we get to the tea before Teddy calls in? Or is the best way to do this is to... Teddy first? Well, just discuss... Discuss the Teddy situation.

What do you think of my take? Okay. I love that you're asking me this question. Can you clarify, so you clarified a little bit a couple minutes ago. So let's just read, can you go ahead

and just read what. Should we do a line reading? Do you want to be Clayton or Teddy? Wait, that's so funny. Do a line reading and then give me your thoughts and then I'll be Clayton. All right.

All right. Ready? Yeah. Now this has set the stage. Teddy has shown up. Teddy has told the America, Bachelor Nation, and producers that she is a virgin and that if asked and if she's feeling it, she's fully prepared to accept a key from Jesse Palmer.

Insinuating that maybe this is the special moment she's been waiting for. She doesn't come out and say, I'm going to fuck, This is the special moment she's been waiting for. She doesn't come out and say, I'm going to fuck. But she is teasing it, so to speak. Well, she's ready. She's whatever. She's saying that she's ready.

Potentially. If the guy's right and the kid's right. And maybe that was her most authentic moment. And maybe that was her being like, you know what might get me to final three? Being a virgin. That's what Nick thinks. Maybe. I don't know. And then she got the first impression rose and then she's on a group

date. It's like an obstacle course of some kind with kids and then we saw their like. It's always an obstacle course. Their only one on one time that they seemed to. The only one on time they had between the time she got the first impression rose and the next time she saw Clayton. This is at the cocktail party right after the commercial break.

Boom. Boom. All right. All right. You guys set that up so nicely. Thank you. Okay. Seeing you with other girls does make me really emotional.

I don't think I was expecting it to be this intense because I'm just like, does he even still like me? it to be this intense because I'm just like, does he even still like me? Well, if I just say this, I actually inaudible. I couldn't figure out what word he said. I actually meant for you. I actually burned for you. I'm just going to. I was actually yearning for you.

I actually burned for you. We don't know. We can't confirm. He actually said that. Like, there's a reason I gave you the first impression, Rose. You don't have anything to be concerned about. You really don't. I love how you are progressing.

He talks so clinically. How we are progressing. I love how we are progressing. He speaks so clinically. How are they I mean it's day two no but I agree with Nick

like Clayton's feeding into it does anyone talk like this like on a I love how we're progressing no no no just like I don't know

anyways Teddy says keep going okay and Clayton responds and if we just focus on each other and don't worry about everything else

that's going on outside of it like I think it can start to cloud your judgment and you can start to second guess classic bachelor talk. Definitely. You are so different from other guys that I've dated and I really feel like this could be something. How is he different? I mean, I know she's not the first person to say that, but Clayton responds, absolutely. So it would be such a bummer if I let the drama of the outside

or my overthinking affect something that could be so good between us. I'm just going to need a lot of validation from you. Okay, so. So I see Teddy as an intelligent woman and more intelligent people are more capable of being manipulative. I think even in healthy relationships,

we can be manipulative at times. Okay. My thoughts. You're not wrong to be skeptical, right? None of us are wrong to be skeptical of anyone going on the show, posts like Instagram having this like huge blast, right? Nick comes from a going on the show post like Instagram having this like huge blast right Nick comes from a time on the show where social media wasn't as much of a factor and as being someone

who worked on it it was so incredible to see genuine people plucked from obscurities of North America being brought on to genuinely want to find a person to procreate did. Did you think, let me ask you, around that time, what I always say, no one's come for just love because that's insane. What people would come from, quote unquote, back in the day, like five, six years ago, before social media is what it is now,

was for the experience with an open mind to find love. And travel. And travel. And now they've replaced with experience with building a platform. Well, money. And travel. Yeah. And now they've replaced with experience with building a platform. Well, money. Money.

Just call it money. Money. And then, I guess, love. Right. And I, right. Money, I guess, love instead of experience, life, soulful enrichment. Can you blame anyone? No.

When I. We don't blame anyone. When I hear this conversation, I see, I don't think it's manipulative. One, because I think we've gotten to a point where there's so much muddiness and messiness when it comes to love and relationships because people are not clear. There's so much guessing. And if this woman is going to sit and say, hey, this is a feeling that's arising in my body, none of us can say whether or not he is different from other guys. Maybe he is different from other guys that she's met and I don't know where she's from.

Do we know where she's from? I mean, the only thing she could like actually be going off of is like his appearance and her guessing. Or a spark, Nick. Like we can't deny that there are instances in life where people meet someone that they've never met before and they feel lit up. Megan Fox, MGK, Ashley I, Jared Haben.

It doesn't happen to everyone. And it's really sad because I think all of us strive for that. But I think there are moments where sometimes you just get lit up inside by seeing someone and being around them. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Wouldn't the more honest response be then, I feel something different than I ever have felt with anyone else? No, she doesn't say that. She says, you're so different.

She talks about Clayton, the person, the quality he sees bringing the table. Now, maybe it could be just straight up physical. I've only dated guys who are 5'7 with blonde, you know, blonde, straight hair. And she's like, you're literally different than it. I've never dated someone six, three who's your size with curly hair. You know, it could be that. I don't, we don't know.

Totally, but then we're getting caught up on words and semantics when like, when you're, when you're, when you have no phone, you're around from everyone you know in the world. You're living in a house with 20 people you don't know. You're going after one guy everyone else is going with. It is literally the perfect storm and scenario for all the triggers in life to come up, right?

The one thing I hate about this conversation is the last thing she says, where she says, I'm just going to need a lot of validation from you. And I'm just like, man, like as women, can we just get together as anyone? Can we just get together and say it's 2022? Like you need to be in alignment with yourself. You cannot be okay if this guy texts back

and says he wants to build a future with you. And only in that reality can you be okay. And I think in this scenario, like I said, this is an incredible show for all of us to witness and watch. It's the ultimate social experiment. There's a reason it's been on television over, what, 15, 17 years now. We would always say, when we were together as people making the show, we've been making the same show for years. And the reason why people

are interested in it is for this exact reason. It's for those triggers that come up. And I just wish Teddy would say to herself, I know these triggers are going to come up. I'm feeling something for this guy, but you don't need validation from him. You know, you need to know that you're in a scenario where he is potentially open to being with someone else, but you are okay being you and you need to potentially be okay with whether or not he's with you or not at the end.

That's my opinion. But I don't think it's manipulative to say, this is what's coming up in my body for me don't think it's manipulative to say this is what's coming up in my body for me I think it's actually being very clear and I wish a lot of people would do that in real life it's a reason why I've been single for a very long time listen it's a fine line I you know everything you're saying is true and I guess I agree with it just depends it's just a matter of opinion of what her words like I'm basing this on the assumption that she, and having been on her side of things, like, I know the emotions that, you know, again, having a first impression rose. And I'm basing it on what I think she seems to be, I don't know, from the little bit I can tell, she seems like that's an intelligent person, you know, like in tune with herself.

It takes a lot for in this day and age everything she's given us the information is like I'm not a virgin because I'm religious I'm not a virgin I just like I've set boundaries for myself and I've enforced those boundaries and this is this is where it's led me like so there's a sign of like self-awareness and and and a kind of almost goes against the grain of the, what you say that what she said, I need that validation because it could be manipulative if she's, what she is, is getting a guy who's she's compete. She's one of 30 or one of 23 now or whatever the number is.

Yeah. And she's competing. Right. And she has been able to have a conversation where she says, I need something from you because you like me. I know that because you gave me the first impression, Rose.

Ding, ding, ding. We have finally aligned. And I agree with you where that is somewhat manipulative. I think that's manipulation. I think we just came together in our arguments and 100%. I think that's when you are being somewhat manipulative to another person, right? I need you to do this in order for me to be okay. But I do want to applaud her and I think more people need to just say how they're feeling in the moment. I think, I don't

know, I look back at my life, Nick. Except when I sometimes, the problem, it's tough because often we use our feelings to manipulate in relationships. Because what do you say to someone in a relationship when they tell you, that's how I feel? And you're just like, okay, I want to respect that. I want to honor that. I want to, but what if you're using your, people use their feelings, men and women. And again, it's a fine line. We're getting into the weeds a little bit here because every day i think couples can do that and again

sometimes nally and i will like laugh how we it's we there's a mental kind of gymnastics i think we also like that we have because we challenge each other but sometimes with an intelligence level you know and now he's like you but you make it so much better than me. So like, we both know she's just feeling lazy. Yeah. You know, anytime when one of us is manipulative because like we're feeling lazy, I think we know what's going on.

It's kind of fun. When sometimes if you're being manipulative in the heat of the motion, in the heat of the moment, it can feel wrong, you know? And at the end of the day, I think you're absolutely right, Nick. I think at the end of the moment, it can feel wrong. And at the end of the day, I think you're absolutely right, Nick. I think at the end of the day, it's are you being responsible for your own emotions and feelings?

Hey, I am feeling this. Or in most cases, it's a thought actually, not a feeling. I thought you meant this by doing this. And I feel that way because of this. but this is what I'm going to do about it. All right. I think Teddy is coming. Teddy, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's the first time we've done something like this. Because usually we'll do long form interviews and we won't have current cats calling for a quick chat.

I would be really honored if i didn't listen to the last podcast episode well i'll tell you what i'll tell you what teddy i'm just gonna sit here and suck in the awkwardness the fact that you have and you are here with us today really really makes me appreciate you that much more and we are we are like i don't know if you only listen to the last one i'm sure it was like a cousin or a friend, a friend or a sister. It's like, you have to listen to because it's always shit like that. Uh, we're all fans of you here on this show, Teddy, just to, just to be clear. So I listened to the first episode because my sister who's happily married with two children is in love with you. So she listened to the first one was like you have

to listen to it he really likes you so I listened to that one that I was like I'm just gonna end on a good note with Nick and I'm not gonna listen to any more it was probably smart and then I got tagged in a bunch of stuff and then I listened to the next one so and so that's why we wanted to have you on we wanted to give you the floor and I And I hope you know this, but we are commenting on your character on the show. And we just recognize that it's a TV show and you have limited control and sometimes there's music or whatever. Sometimes there's music. That being said, yes, you are aware of the fact that when it came to what you said to Clayton I was like I think

that's being a little manipulative now we we preface it by saying in relationships of all kinds even the healthy ones we can sometimes be manipulative Nellie and I my girlfriend we joked about this week and we sometimes will say things where I'm, I know what you're trying to do. I know what you're trying to do. So it's all in jest. But well, you listened to it and you, so you heard my comments. So I will just give you the floor. Do you completely disagree with me? Do you see what I'm saying? And I think part of it is because I'm like, here's this woman, we see her for the first time. She's like, hey, Bachelor Nation, I'm a virgin. And just a heads up, if Clayton's down, I am down for the fantasy suite.

I'm like, this person knows how to get to the finals. It seemed like she knows the assignment and so far she's acing the test. And that was my takeaway. So now the floor is yours, Teddy. I think you're giving me a lot more credit than I deserve. You said a lot in the last podcast that I am very emotionally intelligent and I do appreciate that.

But I think for me, I really wasn't trying to be manipulative at all. I truly was just insecure. I think like coming off of that first day, I did seem really confident. And I remember watching it back and being like, wow, I looked a lot more confident than I was feeling in that moment. So like, I can see how going from that first night and then the complete next day being like, oh, I don't think you like me. Like I can see why it looked like this must not be

her because we just saw the day before. And I looked like I was like running the show, but I really was insecure and everything is just so compacted in that house. And like things move really quickly. So I was emotional and I know it was really early, but I did, I did really like him really quickly. Um, in past relationships, I think, I think in, I think in past relationships, I think in past relationships, I've tried to like say things to get married and I wanted him to know early on what I needed so that I didn't like pull back and end up ruining something and then having to watch it on national television realizing that I ruined it fuck yes Teddy that is exactly that was my

thought I used to work on the show just you know and I that was my thoughts to Nick is I said I love the clarity that you have. And there's so many people out there in life putting out so much messiness. And for something to come up in your body and for you to say, hey, this is how I'm feeling. And you even said too, I know you're right. Like I shouldn't let the drama outside of this, but you were very authentic and aligned with who you are. You said to Clayton in that moment, the kind of cliche, you're so different than all the other guys I've dated. Now, I don't know how long you're on for.

I don't know. I'm sure you got to know Clayton. But in that moment, if you could go back to that moment, that was your second conversation. What specifically did you mean about him? Not a feeling that was different than other guys that you had met or, or looking back, was that just something you just might've said out of nervousness? The relationships that I had prior to Clayton were pretty toxic. And like, I get into that more as the season progresses. It was all about kind of just,

that more as the season progresses. It was all about kind of just, for me, I grew up and saw a specific type of relationship and it was seeing arguments and that kind of associating with passion. So I think growing up, I was in relationships where I thought I needed to argue a lot with someone to like get that passion. And that's what love really was. And I saw really early on with Clayton that I felt chemistry and I felt passion with him, but he was very calm and he never really needed to argue. And again, I know it was really early, but even like in that conversation in the past, it would have been taken more of him thinking that he was doing something wrong and just being like, well, I don't know what I'm doing. I think I'm acting fine, but he always took conversations with me very much. So like, okay, what can I do to improve? Like what, what can I do to help you

feel safer in this experience? So I think early on, I realized with him that he didn't have to fight, fight, and we didn't have to argue for me to still feel passion with him. Okay. Made you feel safe. Great, great answer. All right. Naz, the floor is yours. I just, yeah, I didn't mean to cut you right, Naz, the floor is yours. I just, yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, Nick, but the one line that I think Nick and I were sort of in agreeance with, and I just want your opinion on, is how do you feel about when you said, I'm just going to need a lot of validation from you? Yeah, I believe that. And I say that in relationships always, especially early on, I can be insecure.

And again, like there's a lot of things that you'll see me more explained later on as time goes on as to why my childhood has kind of impacted the way that I am in relationships. But because of that, I do need a lot of validation and feeling safe with a man and feeling like they are going to stay with me and stay in the relationship, even when time gets hard. Um, so I think like going on that first group date, I mean, we went from that first night where I literally thought it was just me and him there, which I know is silly, but like the way he was talking to me, I felt like, oh, wow, it's really just us throughout this whole process. So then going to a group date where, you know, we see a lot of him talking to Cassidy the whole time and like him not really even looking at me that much. I was just like, oh, whoa, like this is going to be hard for me. And I felt like, yeah, I'm going to need a lot of validation here, probably more than I would

in like the normal world. So yeah, I hold strong to me saying I'm going to need validation. All right. So that's interesting. I'm glad you said that. Now, I'm thinking about her answer, Naz, and I'm like, we're weirdly talking about you while you're listening. This is so meta right now, as people are watching you on a show on their small screen. I know, right? But Teddy makes a good point. And I don't know, you know, Teddy, we talk a lot, our other formats on this show, we talk a lot of relationships and dating and things like that. So it's intertwined. So thanks for indulging us. I think in every relationship, it's valid to want and seek validation in the relationship. with that moment in which you asked for validation?

Because I think a lot of people, men and women, but oftentimes women make the mistake early on in dating situations. And advice I'll often give to our people who call in was, you're spending more time early on, someone you just met, of trying to get them to like you rather than figuring out first if you like them. And then therefore,

you are solely focused on getting validation from them as opposed to primarily focusing on, especially early on in your first couple of conversations, ideally both people are doing this, and saying, well, what did I like about this? What questions do I want to ask this person? What follow-up questions?

And oftentimes early on, and I think we can agree that it was early on when you talked to Clayton, that you were primarily focused on telling him that you just needed, it's like you were giving away your power by just saying, all I really need is validation.

And I'm like, I'm yours. And I'm okay. And I'm okay. And Nick, you don't know this about, but in my own personal dating life, Nick really, he came on my podcast with Ashley I one day. I don't get it. And you said, but do you really like him?

Like that was always a question that Nick would say. And I think it's like such an important thing to remember. And I think for me, Teddy, it was just, I think when people are in alignment, it's not like, I'm not going to be okay unless you do this, right? Like, unless you text me every morning, then I'm going to be okay. And to me, I'm like, no, let's be responsible for our own feelings. Let's be okay whether or not someone does something or not. And so when he brought up the word manipulative, I was like, oh, I can see how that line, I'm going to need a lot of validation from you, puts your okayness and your well-being in Clayton's hands when the

cards are kind of stacked against you with what Nick was saying too, where it's like, you're in this game too. Like, do you like him? But it's hard to remember that when you're in this house with like 30 people and everyone's vying, you're like, it's almost like you're a horse that's in the race, but you're like, oh wait, I don't need to be running. Totally. Like I can just figure out if I want to be on this track or not.

Yeah. But I mean, in fairness to Teddy, it's fast forward pretty quickly. Right. I hope we're not like lecturing you too. But I love Teddy that you were like, no, that's how I feel in relationships. And there is, in relationships,

you need validation. 100%. And you're also, you're so good at being aware of what you need, which I think is also amazing too, right? You're like, I'm going to need a guy

that's going to do this for me and I'm not going to take any less than that. And I think where it gets messy is when people are like, when you're like a rat in the corner trying to just get scraps from any guy, right? Where you're like, oh, whatever. He looked at me yesterday, so it's fine. So I'll hold on to this little hope when it are like, when you're like a rat in the corner trying to just get scraps from any guy, right?

Where you're like, oh, whatever. Like he looked at me yesterday, so it's fine. So I'll hold onto this little hope when it's like, no, you're famished. Nourish yourself with someone that's going to feed you every day, whether you have to ask him for it or not. Yeah.

All right. Teddy, we're going to play a fun game with you if that's okay with you. Before we do, do we have any like the-hanging fruit like who do you hate the most like who like of all the women after night one that someone's like it would be not that you dislike them because you teddy i don't know you but you don't you don't have hate in your heart you know i'm just but but just an angel i'm glad you see that you don't have hate in your heart but that being said if there were like who would be the three women that like if you had to have a

whole dinner with appetizer meal drinks dessert that would just be hard for you to endure. And maybe that's a you thing too. It's just like, you're not compatible. What three women would be difficult for you to get through an entire meal of food with one-on-one? In my sorority, we would say, who would you not share a pillow with? Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I don't think i could say three okay we'll take one okay let me think about this nick i thought it's gonna be a drama free one i was hoping just for an apology i love you so much teddy and then you have not been listening to the show

we do love you teddy one might say Nick is being manipulative oh 100% thank you so much we do love you Teddy 100% I'm just sucking her out okay I probably would not get a meal with Sinead

we will see more of her as time goes on Sinead would you? why would you get a meal with Sinead I'm sorry I was thinking of something

I'm sorry I'm still learning yes Sinead would be tough but I would breathe who did I think you were saying when you said that I thought you were talking about Serene oh oh no love Serene okay we love her yeah everyone in unison we love Serene so Sinead okay anyone else because that's like low hanging fruit it really is just Sinead I'll bring Rachel with me because she's my best friend and

we'll just what about Cassidy though what about Cassidy though? What about Cassidy? Yeah. What about Cassidy? Not much to say with her. I, yeah, I probably want to get a meal with her. Probably. I feel like they kind of go hand in hand, Cassidy and Janae. Is there someone you connected with in the house you were surprised to connect with? Oh, I think like, I just didn't realize you really become best friends. And I see why people in Bachelor Nation all hang out

because it really is just like this unique experience. So I made so many friends that I truly feel like I will have forever because of that. All right. And one more question. I'm trying to phrase this in a way that you would be allowed to answer because I know you can't give anything away. Regardless if you go home next episode or you are or you are now engaged to clayton if at any point did you potentially regret telling america that you were like where you

were like i don't know if i would go to the fantasy suite i know i said that but i don't know did that ever happen um i never regretted saying that I was a virgin. And I never will regret like talking about fantasy suites potentially going. I am not like a stereotypical virgin. I am very open and honest about sex. And like, I am a sexual person. I just had a boundary in college that I no longer agree with. So no, like I never will regret that experience or anything about that. I love how much you know yourself. She didn't really answer the question.

Oh, come on. Just let her go. Let her off the hook. No, she said she doesn't regret it. No, no, but no, no. It was more the whether she was willing to go to the fantasy suite. That was more the question.

Got it, got it. Of course. Yeah. I love that you articulated about the boundary. Are you able to share what that boundary was that you no longer agree with? So I grew up in a Christian household. I've gone to Christian schools up until graduating college. So for me, it was always just waiting until marriage for sex. I basically have done everything before that line. Um, and then I think when I graduated college, I just kind of looked back at all of my beliefs and that was kind of the one I always went back to on. Am I actually doing this because I believe it's making me a better person? It's going to be something for my husband or am I doing it because there's a lot of shame with women to feel like they need to wait because it will change their identity as a person. And for me, I just felt like I was doing it because of it was such my identity. And I just

don't think that's a good enough reason. Um, so yeah, that's why I do not regret feeling like I wanted to go to fantasy suites. And because if you get to that point, you're usually in love with the man. So if I go to fantasy suites. And because if you get to that point, you're usually in love with the man. So if I go to fantasy suites because I'm in love and you can't regret that. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for that very thoughtful answer.

All right. Before we let you go, it's called a game we just made up. Is blank. It's called a game we just made up. Is blank manipulative. So it's just scenarios. And then we want your take on whether you think it's manipulative or not.

Is asking your partner to cook a meal for you like toast. Is asking your partner to make you a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or whatever your favorite sandwich is, and you tell them because you make it so much better than me manipulative keep in mind it's peanut butter and jelly yeah but is that true maybe they maybe they spread out the peanut butter and jelly yeah i think i think that it's you're feeling a little lazy you're comfortable you're washing your face you is on you're you know you know whatever and uh you could go for a snack and they're sitting next to you all so comfortable and you're like i could really go for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich right

now and you're like babe just make it so much better than me. Is that manipulative? If he actually makes it better, then no. But if it's just because I'm lazy and I'm using that as an excuse, then I guess so. It's something we all do. What's a moment that you've done this? He's excusing calling me a manipulator

by these questions, I feel. When's a moment you've done that, Nick? Well, I apologize for saying you are manipulative. I should have said, I thought you were being manipulative in that moment because I don't know you. When I listened to the actual episode, I feel like it actually made more sense.

It was just that like one line. Of course. That's how this works, Teddy. It was a good one-liner, Nick. You take a picture, scenario number two, you take a picture with your partner. They like it and want to post. But you like another picture better.

And you convince them to use the one you like because you tell them that you don't think it's their best picture of themselves. Is that being manipulative? Yes. Let's getalie on the phone right now i kind of want to call natalie of course it is did natalie say did she agree yes we laugh when like we were going to last night like it was the afternoon and i was like we we both were like, we should go grocery shopping. Yeah. And like, she definitely didn't want to go. And I first, first she was like,

she was saying something in a way. I'm like, if this is you trying to like, have me go by myself, I'm not going. And she starts laughing. What was she saying though? What was she saying? She's just like, I forgot, I forgot. But then, then I, then I said to her abruptly, you know what?

It's cool. I'm going to go by myself. And me saying it so like, you know what? Actually, I sounded like I prefer to go by myself. She immediately was like, wait, why do you want to go by yourself? And then I got her to go with me. And that's manipulative by definition. So manipulative. She totally knew what I was doing. Yeah. You know, and it's when it's, when you're aware, it's like, it's a fun, playful thing.

Would you agree if that's, that's manipulative, Teddy? Yes, I agree. Have you ever faked, has anyone in this room faked a stomach ache or headache when they didn't want to do something in a relationship? A stomach ache or headache? In like a friendship. Teddy was nodding. You've never with a guy you've been dating been like, I'm sorry.

You forget like my relationships are like eight weeks long. So no. Or a friendship. Have you ever done with friends? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, it's literally living in LA. It's like, oh, like my friend was asking me to hang out two weeks from now.

And I was like, oh, I actually plan on getting COVID that weekend. Like, sorry. You just come up with any reason to get out of anything. A hundred percent. And I'm just kidding. I didn't mean to joke about COVID that lately. No, it's a serious thing we're all going there but

maybe a stomach ache I would have said one final one I think we get the gist of it all they're all kind of potentially it's a trick quiz

it's a trick game I think that the line of the incidents with Teddy and Clayton though and all of these examples which I agree with Teddy on

is if the emotion is genuine and real and you're sharing that of course then it's not. It's not. We just we're all

and then we were here debating whether we thought Teddy's emotions were in fact real. When it's like it's up to her whether or not they're real or not.

And that's why we have a silly podcast to break it all down. Yeah. Teddy we are excited to watch your journey continue and we all are fans of you on this show and we're rooting for you and whatever that means maybe the next bachelorette 100 would uh if you don't win clayton's heart and you don't become the next bachelorette uh do you see yourself in paradise? If I am not with someone right now,

then I think you should never say never when it comes to The Bachelor. I like totally believe in this experience and I believe that you can find love. So never say never. All right. One more question. Sorry.

What's one thing you've learned about yourself from going on this show that surprised you? That's what I wanted to know too. Yeah. I think for me, I realized different ways that I, like defense mechanisms. I think just like the biggest thing for me was learning to be open really early. And even just being open to love. I think I always wanted to find the right moment to say things to him. And I realized you just kind of have to make the moment the right moment. So when you feel like you love someone, say it.

And when you, you know, anything that you want to say, say it in the moment. So I think for me, I just like grew a lot and realizing that there's a lot more bravery and being vulnerable and pretending like you're okay all the time. God, I love what you just said so much. Because I think one thing I struggle with is knowing when is that moment to say how you feel, right? Because so many people will be like, it's too soon. You're putting on way too much. It's the beginning. And that's technically, that was like an underlying thing maybe a lot of people felt watching you, right? They're like, oh, it's episode whatever. We're

so early on into this. Is that real? And it's like, when is that right moment? So I love what you said. There is no right moment. You have to create that right moment for yourself and you have to honor yourself and going through with that. And it is, why do we not want to do it? We're just scared of this little feeling called rejection, which is so silly. It's a part of life. That's it. That's all we're scared of. I'll also tell you why people want to do it. In addition to rejection, they are afraid of their peers, whether it's their friend group

or their family or their community or viewers at home. Embarrassment, shame. Of judging them for having failure or having exes and things like that. We do that. And I do love your answer, Teddy, because I do think it's a positive

that a lot of people if they who go on the show and experience this like crazy thing that that we do because you do go in kind of guarded and you know vulnerability but for the people who are lucky enough to develop feelings and say it and there's a lot of judgment that comes with it and you know whether it's me saying oh she's acting manipulative or some other fan being like oh you didn't really like them or how could you and like with my relationships with the women I met on the show it's not the same as relationships I've had outside of the show and it's a different type of but I've never regretted it and I've never and it's it I think it teaches a lot of people go on the show the ability to be like fuck it like. Like I felt it in that moment. I felt

what I felt and I might look at it differently in the future. And I'm not comparing it to anything else, but like, I'm not ashamed for just putting it out there. And I think that's a very, it kind of makes you, it's a possibility for people like Teddy or myself who have gone on the show. If you lean into that, it does stay with you to be like, you're a little bit more braver when it comes to love and relationships, I think. You're leading with vulnerability and from being on the other side of it, right? Being someone that gets to, I mean, I got to ask people about love and heartbreak for two and a half years and it's so much fun. And to be in an environment where you feel safe to actually say how you feel, it really does teach people to lead with vulnerability.

And I know people watch the show and we joke, right? And The Bachelor in some ways become a parody of itself. But it's exactly what you said, Teddy, when he asked you about Paradise. You said, any experience with The Bachelor I would do. And when people come up to me and they, you know, they're like, is it scripted? Or like, and I'm like, The Bachelor today in this age,

and I stand by this, is the best way to meet someone, is someone who is single and is dating now. Because the person walks out of a limo, and you know this, Nick, because you were the bachelor, and you don't know their name, you don't know their age, you don't know how much money they make, you don't know if they have kids. And these days, we have a dossier on who people are. We look them up on Instagram. We know who their friends are. We know where their freaking mom works. You know, we know what they're boxing to them on LinkedIn and you create this preconceived notion. And so every day, every time I will stand behind the show, I'm being an incredible self journey experience into discovery of the self and what you like and what you don't like.

And it's just the ultimate act in bravery and vulnerability, I think, to like try and like like someone in front of the masses and be subjected to stuff like this. Yeah, completely agree. Well, Teddy, thank you for being such a fun and good sport. We really appreciate it. And we will try to be protective of

Team Teddy. I'm Teddy for Bachelorette. But just don't fuck up. No, I'm just kidding. I'm sure you'll be great, and I'm sure you'll get more praise than criticism. And another thing you hear on the show, I'm just kidding. I'm sure you'll be great. And I'm sure you'll get more praise than criticism. And another thing you hear on the show, I wouldn't take all that seriously. When it comes to the recaps.

Any final thoughts? Anything you want to, your moment? Anything you want to say before we let you go? No, I feel like we covered it. Thank you guys so much. And thank you to all the women because you guys were all backing me up in the last podcast.

I heard it. Teddy, if you're ever in LA, let's go get pasta. I would love that. DM me. I would love that. Okay, great. We're going to be friends. All right, Teddy. Thanks so much. Best of luck. We are excited to watch you and your journey unfold and we wish you nothing but the best. Thank you guys. All right. Nice meeting you.

Nice meeting you. What a lovely human. Lovely indeed. I genuinely want to be her friend. I know. I want to hang out with her. She seems delightful. Honestly, to go back to what we were saying in the very beginning,

dynamic casting right there. Like, I want to see Teddy fine line. She's an amazing. She's not already with someone. She's an amazing cast for a variety of different reasons. That's what's so interesting about Bachelor is you get to watch yourself, how you felt in every moment. When I go on like a date with a guy, I'll journal like the first three dates.

And it's so funny to see what I thought about that person after date one, as opposed to what I thought about them after date three. And that's why when people ask me all the time, do they pick? Do they know who's going to win? Like these are questions I've been asked my whole life. And I'm like, absolutely not. Because you can kiss someone and immediately not like them anymore. Like it is that capricious.

And so there's no way of- Capricious? Capricious. Definition, please. Unpredictable, like the rain. Okay. You know, like you can't, you just don't know. You just don't know.

And that's what's so damn cool about feelings and love and this whole space. All right. Well, I think we've covered the teddy. We've covered the teddy. We've covered the teddy. The covered the teddy we've covered the teddy the teddy talk the teddy topic

oh I like teddy talk oh well there you go that's that's going to be teddy's new podcast name in about a year and a half teddy talk can we get two percent commission on that yeah when you get pasta with her what else we got in bachelor world

shall we begin our our tea our journey now that we're done with our teddy talk Nicholas would you like to say anything about Clint? Yeah, I mean, sad. You actually

got to know Clint a little bit, did you not? I did. So my first season was Caitlin Bristow's season. That's where I met you. And I actually

took to JJ and Clint like... The bromance? A lot, yeah. And I was somewhat, I was one of the producers in there that spoke to them a lot interviewed them a lot and Clint was someone who was so he was I'll tell you this much I would talk to him about architecture and stuff and design and you know how some cast members bring gifts for the bachelor bachelorette I remember he and I don't want to say something

that isn't right because I don't want to say something that isn't right because I don't quite remember, but I knew what he had drawn something for Caitlin that was so elaborate. He drew a picture of Chris Harrison on a triceratops dinosaur. Yes, thank you for remembering that. It was phenomenal.

It was phenomenal. And I remember thinking, this guy is so- He is next level. 100%, but not even that. Just to think of that, like, you know, you see guys and people every day and I was like, there's something about this guy. He's at art. He is next level. 100%. But not even that. Just to think of that. Like, you know, you see guys and people every day. And I was like, there's something about this guy.

He's so cool. He has such an imaginative brain. And his bromance with JJ was so lively. And it just warmed my heart that I, my heart goes out and thoughts and prayers to his family because gone too soon doesn't even begin to explain how I feel. A unique guy. I didn't meet him because he left

and I showed up I always wondered if like they knew I was coming and like it's almost like the producers let the drama unfold with Clint and JJ fashion they might otherwise would if I wasn't coming because it was like why is why like after I met Clint after filming, I was like, this guy should have been on longer. I think Caitlin liked him. I don't know. But I got a call from Ben and he told me that Clint had passed. Super tragic. But yeah, a really unique guy.

I hung out with him twice a long time ago. I haven't had any communication with him in years. But once in a while, you meet people on the show that don't seem to fit the mold of the typical person that casts on the show. He had a very high intellect. That's not necessarily meant to be a good or a bad thing, but Clint was definitely very unique.

And you knew he was, I found him really fascinating and interesting and and um it's really sad so so sad prayers to his family all right clayton's women have been popping up on my instagram and doing a lot of stuff uh yeah what's uh should we get into our favorite miss cassidy yeah then she like posted a video I saw. Yes, she did. Yes, she did.

On her Instagram story. You were going to give her a rose even though she was engaged last week. Meanwhile, I fucked someone a few months ago and I got sent home. Okay, no, it's cool. No, I get it. I get it. I get what we're made of here. I get the stuff that's happening.

And go fuck yourself, Clayton Ecker. Whoa. Whoa. She isn't taking it down. I mean, whatever. It's hard. He took it down, but Nick was too fast.

Wow. Nick, are you just like screenwriting? Are you just watching everyone's story screen and putting Justin King? It was all over TikTok. Yeah. Okay, got it. It's hard to know

because we don't know how anything plays out. And I feel like this was kind of somewhat spoilery in a way, which I have no room for because I cover television and film and there's nothing I dislike more than someone who spoils something first. I mean, it ended on a cliffhanger

of like, is he going to send her home? We all knew he was going to send her home. So I wouldn't say it's the biggest spoiler. Like, oh no, Cassidy didn't win. But we didn't know how, Nick. Or why, I guess I should say. He's going to ask her about it. She's going to give a bizarre answer.

Probably try to make it feel like he did something wrong. I don't know. What she seems like in that video, though, probably try to make it feel like he did something wrong. I don't know. What she seems like in that video though, is that she seems to be trying to low-key accuse him of slut shaming her in a way. Potentially. I mean, that's what I'm saying is it's hard to have any opinion on this

because we don't exactly know how this plays out. It seems like she's somewhat trying to get ahead of something. But I will tell you... Well, she's referencing in in case you forgot episode one where sally i was just gonna say sally was engaged and and clayton was just like please stay i mean he right his son he tried to give her a rose he didn't bag but he was emphatic that he wanted her to stay even though she was like i like i had a fiance a couple months ago i was supposed to get married today and we we gave we gave clayton a hard time for not being having the self-awareness that that person it it would almost be impossible

for them to have the emotional availability to get engaged And yet he was begging her to stay. But she's making this comparison. Well, she's clearly upset, right? Because a lot of people found out about Sally that, you know, obviously they found out in real time. The world found out. Now, as someone who's been on the other side of the, I want to say, quote unquote, exception to some rules, you came on in the middle of the season I want to say, quote unquote, exception to some rules. You came on in the middle of the season, right? Which isn't like traditional. It's not like standard. So for someone like Sally, can't you understand how other people would maybe potentially be really triggered and upset by that and maybe feel- That's Sally? Maybe feel just like, I don't want to, what's the word? Like how it was just not fair in a way.

Well, I hate the word fair as it relates to The Bachelor. I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, Sally was going to get criticized no matter what, right? Right. I think she recognized that having showed up and sat in her hotel room for four days and waited around while she met a handful of producers and talked about what she wanted to do getting on the limo. But as bizarre as it was, I gave her credit for at least being like, I can't do this. Yeah. And she at least recognized that, where Cassidy, she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar

telling this story to another castmate, mic'd up. Then we all know how quickly cast forgets they're mic'd, right? Whispering, thinking she's saying in confidence when it's not. She got called out by her castmate. And it's obviously also on video. So we saw it's not even hearsay and uh the context was completely different context matters you know context is like whether clayton was you know we for the way i watch sally is man she's just she's a mess right now and

rightfully so she should have been engaged i mean i mean that would mess with anyone and then she goes on the show and maybe her expectations of what she hoped she was getting from going on the show. We've all done that. We've all reacted and kind of gone on a rabbit hill of maybe not awesome decisions

for our well-being. Especially from that heartbroken space, right? Maybe this will help me move on. Maybe this is my journey. And she seemed to recognize that and tried to recuse herself where Cassidy was seemingly like maintaining this hookup situation.

Sally seemed to be authentic. At least it comes across as, I don't know why I'm doing this. Maybe I'll find, maybe it'll just help me forget about my relationship. And maybe she was, maybe she literally broke up with her fiance for followers. You know, maybe Sally isn't as righteous as we want to believe we don't have the answer but cassidy what she her excuse is everyone does this of course like yeah like and i don't fault

cassidy for going on the show and like not thinking and thinking that there's a good chance she's not going to fall for Clayton. That's normal. It's just the fact that she, she probably did. And I bet Cassidy's not the only one, but what Cassidy has proven is that she's sloppy as fuck. She is, she's sloppy with her words. She's sloppy with her intentions. She's sloppy with like, yeah, she had a hookup and you're not supposed to do that, but then she was sloppy by talking about it. And just like, and that's not honest, that's a sloppy. And you know what I'm saying? And if you're going to go on this show, even though it's almost impossible to be quote unquote genuine because of all the other pressures that come with, then you just try to do your best. Then you might say to your hookup buddy, I'm doing this. We need to stop this. And yeah, there's a good chance I'm not going to fall in love with this guy and we'll

see what happens. But right now, you need to go do your thing because I'm going to go do this thing and there's a clean break. That's the mature go do this thing. And there's a clean break. You know, that's, that's the mature way of handling that. And there's a very big difference between that. And, and what a lot of people do in dating situations is they hedge their bets. You know, even when we break up with our situationships or we break up with a

boyfriend and girlfriend, then we're just like, we're, we're, we're unsure of our own choices. Right. And as a result, we're like,

well, in case this choice is wrong, I'm going to just make sure that they're still there. And I'll say all the things so that they wait. Not so that they, you know, and maybe Sally did that with her fiance. We don't know. And that's where the criticism for. Just playing. Yeah.

It's manipulative. Because there's your faith. So word of the day. We should have had a drinking game with that word. Yeah. So that's where we that word. Yeah. It's 1045. That's where we're criticizing. Yeah.

Because there's also the layer of the whole story was she had a friends with benefits at home and it was going to continue. Like he was basically

going to be waiting for her and he had told Cassidy when you're back we'll watch the show together. Like they were planning on

continuing this once she was back. She was actively trying to hedge her bad and then I really don't appreciate this video because that's where the confusion lies

is why why is there so much anger behind it exactly and I can understand someone breaking off an engagement and clearly being

super upset about it not knowing if she should stay because she's not ready versus someone who has a guy in the wings that she's going to watch the show with when she gets home to me feels very different. It sounds like when I was little and my parents would withhold things from me and I would say, but Chris, like I would blame it on

like my little brother when like he had nothing to do with me. He was like in the corner of the room doing nothing. And I'd be like, but you let him, you know, watch TV after five or whatever it is. And it's just really her being angry and potentially confused over this thing that hopefully we get more answers on. And now, I mean, listen, at the end of the day, this just made everyone more eager to see like how it actually plays out. So it worked. I just, I don't, I don't love how Cassie put that video out.

And it seemed like, it seemed like her intention was to rally some supporters in hopes that people would think that Clayton was... Yeah, I don't like the F-U Clayton. There's an implication that you're judging my choices for having sex. We will see next week how, to your point, how he's sent home. I'm going to go ahead and guess, and I hope that it had nothing to do with him judging whether she was having sex or not at all or the timing in which, but that her, she was trying to maintain that narrative, a relationship with this person all while claiming that she is open and

ready for love. I think we also need to remember that sometimes you're just like not someone's person. And maybe we just need, as humans, we need an answer and an excuse. And it's possible that maybe he just didn't see a future. And that was an easy out, right? Like sometimes we get easy outs, right? The truth is- Or we find them.

The truth is that's most of the reasons why people go home on the bachelor it's not because of the thing that happened it's because he or she already wasn't going to pick them and and as americans we need answers we needed answers we need so reason there's your answer uh And it's a TV show. What else we got, Allie? Some other ladies from Clayton's season. Haley, who went home night one,

went to Peter's book party. Our good friend Peter. Does she live in New York? I don't know. But she had this caption. That's a great question. So happy for you, friend. If she lives in New York.

Can I just stop? guys nicky's so like what is the word not attention to detail is who you are because it is all in like the did she fly there to go or did she take the subway for 10 minutes to go to a book party and take a picture totally different conversation right nick different conversation. You're so right, Nick. You're so right. Do we know where she lives? Well, her bio says full-time pediatric RN, part-time world traveler. Oh, she's a world traveler. She's a world traveler. I can't wait till I'm a part-time world traveler.

Same. Night one is a, it's random. So definitely didn't live up to her expectations. A bummer. She's making most of this bachelor experience by like. Staying relevant on social. And I mean, you know, Peter's the Bachelor you want to go to to become friends with in hopes that he might...

Wait, why is that? Peter's good at making friends. Is he? I haven't met him yet. In her post, she includes hashtag Bachelor fam, hashtag The Bachelor, hashtag Bachelor ABC, hashtag Bachelor Nation. Like she knows what she's doing. Like for whatever, like the people who go home

before top six are notorious for... For the hashtags? For the hashtags. I don't know what it is. It's just like, you know if they've gone home in the first few weeks

because they have like 50 hashtags. That would be so funny if there was an Instagram account screenshotting everyone's hashtags and it was called like Go screenshotting everyone's hashtags. And it was called like, go home episode one or something. Listen, I empathize. Like, especially nowadays, they had so much dreams and expectations of what this was going to be.

Or the money they might hear these stories of what women spend on money. You're mourning the money that could have been made. All right. What else we got, Allie? Kate, who was the one that gave clayton a whiskey shot and opening night uh it was revealed that she works at the oppenheim group which is the selling sunset office she did post with jason five days ago said clocking in from the couch and it was the two of them sitting on the iconic selling sunset couch and his hand was on her knee which felt pretty close for a boss-employee relationship.

Chrishell just broke up. We're having her back on. Yeah. Friend of show, Chrishell. God, I want a crossover so bad. Isn't there someone from Bachelor Nation

dating the Love is Blind? The girl from Blake and Giannina. Yeah. Can we just like the MCU like we've done we've explored the multiverse

with Spider-Man. Can we please see like Bachelor people entering Selling Sunset, vice versa? Maybe, and people are wondering because she's on their roster, she's worked for them for years, but she hasn't been on the show. People are saying, you know,

now that she's on Bachelor, is she going to be on Selling Sunset? Maybe, but that's not how it's, it wouldn't make sense. It definitely wasn't their plan because that would be a bad plan because they gave up their rights to her and gave those rights to Warner Brothers.

Does Warner Brothers produce Selling Sunset? I have no idea. Oh, I don't know who produces it, but I know it's a Netflix property. Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily mean that Warner Brothers doesn't produce it. It's a Netflix original, I think. I have no idea.

Chances are they don't, right? Which means that they would Brothers doesn't it's a Netflix original I think but yeah I have no idea chances are they don't right which means that they would sign line Kate for a year and a half before they could even consider bringing her on unless they got

unless they released it just wouldn't make sense like you know build up your own talent you know don't out it doesn't make sense

don't outsource I think it's just a coincidence I think she just wasn't on the show. And maybe that was her way of thinking. I don't doubt that maybe she thought that this is a way to make herself relevant

so that the people from the Oppenheim group or the Netflix might consider her. And that's a strong possibility. And it worked. But I don't think it's the Netflix people being like, hey, we'll go do The Bachelor. And it's an interesting wrinkle though. Like, is she there for love?

I don't know. Probably. I just, I don't know. That post. Maybe they're just very friendly. But Nick and I have never taken a photo like that. We never will either. Yeah.

Highly inappropriate. Yeah. Yeah, his hands on her leg. Hand on the knee. And they work together. He runs the brokerage. And they work for how long? She's been a real estate agent out here for, I think, like seven years.

So I don't know if all seven years were with Oppenheim. Is it possible they took that photo before she worked there? No, because she has like an Oppenheim mug and they're in the office and she said, clocking in from the couch. So they took a photo and put it on the internet of what- Five days ago. Anyone would consider inappropriate workplace behavior. Yes.

Yikes. Yikes is right. I don't want any boss of mine with their hand on my knee. No, it's... What do you put it in context? It's just... It's very close. Are people recognizing the yikes of it all?

Yeah, I think so. People are kind of... Yeah. I mean, she looks like she's rather enjoying herself. Yeah. But it's still like that's her boss. Everyone is just commenting like they want to see her on Selling Sunset. I want to, what was their relationship?

Like, were they friends before? She definitely works there. Yeah, I don't know how that all works in terms of like, you know, like if you're, I mean, they could like, if you're, you know, coworkers date and then you like go to HR, right? Say, hey, we're dating. So like we might show affection to each other at the workplace, right? And then does it become, I don't know.

Have you put your, maybe he's just really friendly. Is it? Well, that's definitely not an excuse. Hey guys, I'm just really friendly. I don't know. I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like if that was just like, hey, well, why workplace setting? Like why?

And I'm trying to think, have I let guy friends put their hands on my knee? I'm like trying to think before I speak. Me? Like if I, but, and I don't think, I think the answer is no. Here's a perfect, like we're friends. We're, we've been nothing but platonic friends.

You would not take a photo like that. Like Ashley, I have been nothing, like I would. Yeah, you would never put your hand. I put my arm around your like, we'd like you'd put your arm around my shoulder if we took a picture. Well, if the picture was that, would we then think?

I just, I feel like the thigh is a very intimate body part. It is. It is. Yeah. And scour the internet for hands. Scour the internet. Our favorite couple, Michelle and Nate. I believe they're currently in winnipeg because last night

they were ice skating there's a giant winnipeg sign behind them uh michelle recently went on the clickbait podcast and said they're still living in different cities uh they get recognized everywhere especially because of nate and how tall he is and she is still getting hate dms and paragraphs it's tough yeah and she just surprised they don't live together haters sorry they don't live together but she was the one that did the people article and said this summer she wants the wedding so she said this summer she doesn't want to do a long engagement i i don't think i'd want to do a long engagement yeah it's weird that they don't live together maybe it's just timing maybe he's trying to sell i don't think I'd want to do a long engagement. Yeah, it's weird that they don't live together. Maybe it's just timing. Maybe he's trying to sell.

I don't know. Weird is the wrong word. This world requires you. I mean, you chose to get engaged in a few weeks. It's in the normal world, it's not weird at all. Right. Vanessa immediately moved to LA. It's just, it opens up conversations like this.

It's hard to- To really connect if you're not living in the same city. It's hard to keep the momentum going. It's hard to... To really connect if you're not living in the same city. It's hard to keep the momentum going. It's hard to... I agree. It is impossible. I don't care what Nate and Michelle say in public. They've both had their individual thoughts.

It would be human to just wonder, do I know it? They don't know everything about each other. They hope to know. No. So it's a normal thing. You can be with someone for seven years

and still be finding. So they're just opening up the door by saying, you know, that's the thing. Is it right or wrong? I have no fucking clue. Well, maybe.

But it's just, it's a deliberate choice to not say, hey, let's keep going. Let's keep the momentum going. Well, I have a question. I don't know.

Because some people don't want to move in together unless they're engaged. In this case, they already are. Some people don't want to move in together unless they're married. So is that Michelle's stance maybe? Maybe that's why she wants a short engagement. Yeah, I don't know.

I also think there's a matter of... Maybe he doesn't want to do paddle boarding. He has a whole life in Austin. So how quickly can you find a subleaser for your apartment or sell your condo, move everything to Minnesota? He's been done filming. He's been engaged to Michelle since August-ish. It's a long time.

September. I just feel like our- Maybe October. I don't know. I don't know. But he's had a handful of months. Yeah. I just feel like our Bachelor in Paradise couples all wanted months. I don't know. I don't know the, but it's, he's had a handful of months. Yeah. I just feel like our months isn't a lot.

Bachelor in Paradise couples. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if he works from home or whatever and they have the right to do whatever they want, but you know, it's a, I thought,

I thought they, he was moving right away. Yeah. And, uh, I don't know. We'll see. Good luck.

You know, I hope they make it. Anything else? I mean, Katie and John will probably be in Mexico until the day they die. Listen, I just got back from vacation and I don't know why I came back because I was reading that mid-January, you guys,

is the moment of the year where most Americans are depressed. I think coming back from vacation. The holidays. It's not February. It's not February. It's not February. It's the reality sets in after that huge holiday. It's like the most time people have off work.

And if I'm Katie and John, I'm staying in Cabo for weeks. They've been doing it. Yeah, why not? I was like, why did I come back from vacation? Well, they don't have a nine to five. They're influencing. And you can do that anywhere, guess so why not if they're getting

a deal do it do it on the beach i love that journey for her yeah uh all i also just like any update is hannah brown still not following her sister-in-law that's honestly the only thing i'm i'm personally invested in that do you are you familiar with the story i can you refresh my hannah brown's brother got engaged to jed's ex-girlfriend and by ex-girlfriend the woman who claimed to have a situationship with jed while he was falling in love with hannah brown and now that woman is engaged to hannah brown's brother and family's being supportive but hannah brown not follow her, which is a big deal in my opinion. Yeah, she doesn't want to see what's going on there. She like, she has to,

you have to love, yeah, you love your siblings, but we often don't appreciate some of their choices, but you have to love and support them. Yeah. But the actively not following someone is an act of defiance. It's a statement. It is a statement these days where it's like,

I do not want to see your life, which I think is such... And I kind of love that she's not following them. Because you can follow someone and mute them. For sure. Right?

And no one would know. Or you could just not follow them and everyone knows that you don't follow them. No. It's a statement. She's still not following them. And on that note...

Good for you you Hannah Brown Naz thank you so much for coming thank you thank you guys for listening Naz please let the people know

where they can follow you what you're working on all the things you need to promote yes so I'm on Instagram at Naz Perez but Valentine's Day is coming up

like we were because you just asked is February not the most depressing and sometimes it can be and so after I left working on the show I Valentine's Day is coming up. Like we were, because you just asked, is February not the most depressing? And sometimes it can be. And so after I left working on the show, I started a support group for people that are heartbroken.

And I think when we think of the word heartbreak, we think of a girl getting dumped by a guy in matching pajamas, eating ice cream on her bed. And really heartbreak is overwhelming distress. And after I left working on the show to become a TV host, my neighbor knocked on my door hysterical crying because she was going through a breakup, but she had no one to talk to about it. So I listened to her.

She told me her story. And she was like, I feel so much better talking to you because I can't talk to my mom or my sister about this. And I was like, why? And she was like, because they're going to tell me I'm so much better than him and that I need to move on. And I'm not ready to hear that yet. And all of a sudden, this light bulb went off in my head where I was like, oh, this concept of how we're more willing to tell strangers how we actually feel is such a real thing.

And that's kind of how The Bachelor is made in a sense. Like we were just saying, you go on that show, you feel vulnerable, you connect, and you're able to say things that you're not really able to say at home because you're in the comfort of strangers. And so, yeah, in short, I run a support group for people that are heartbroken. We have two virtual meetings every month. We have in-person meetings in LA and on Valentine's Day, I always have a meeting. So if you are experiencing any overwhelming distress, whether it's a divorce, a loss of a pet, a miscarriage, a breakup, breakup with a friend, job dream. You can come and listen to other people's stories of heartbreak to remind yourself you're not alone. And that's really it. HeartbrokenAnonymous.com if you guys want to join any of our meetings any month or come to the Valentine's Day meeting.

Amazing. Taylor Thomason was going to be our guest tomorrow. She unfortunately had a last minute cancel just moments ago. So quite frankly, we are scrambling, but she will definitely be back. You know, things came up. So Naz Perez is going to stick with us. Wow. My next guest needs no introduction. Nick, you say that like you're just so, with such disdain that I'm still going to be here. I mean, listen, I, you know, I think- Can we not, you and I just met, can we not agree that sometimes the,

as humans, we don't hear the words people say, we hear the emotional tone behind that. Here's what I didn't do. I didn't elicit a ton of excitement as you're like, and our guest tomorrow's off. And I just said it. And then there's a combination of how I said it and then how people receive it.

There's that too because then we will project our own. That's literally what I just said. We hear the emotional tone of words, not what people say. You were like, and we have Naz tomorrow. That's like the definition of the mean girl scene where she's like oh my god where'd you get your skirt

I love it I think it'd be great because we just started this new segment that we're actually you we are going to be doing our pilot episode

and actually you will be great for that is this it are we in the second episode or in it no this is the end of the first episode oh okay sorry

I don't know where I am I didn't either so be sure to tune in tomorrow tomorrow five minutes from now. If you like Ask Nick's, this isn't an Ask Nick. It's different because we're just mediating a fight between a couple. Oh, this is so fun.

It's going to be so much better. And not like, you know, Ask Nick is like, okay, so let me set the stage. I met a guy a year ago. We started like dating and then we were in a situation ship and then I met their friend and then they stole money and blah, you know. And then we get to, I hear the story and we solve the problem and then we give them a path

of how to see their situation a little more honest. This is- This is ask Nick and Naz. Sure. This is, no, it's called mediation. Which is great because- This is like, I open up the fridge i put my name on the milk they drank the milk but they only drank a sip but like i didn't you know it's

like it's it's the people's court version i love this of and it's going to be a new segment we're going to do with our guests on wednesdays and then so we'll also talk some pop culture with you being the e-news uh as well as talk more about Heartbreak and Heartbroken Anonymous. Thanks, Nick. I can't wait. I'm so excited. Actually, I'm really excited because, oh, I'll tell you guys next episode. Just you wait.

And as always for the Ask Nick episodes, don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. If you are in a relationship with a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, and you're fighting about who should have done what and was someone being manipulative, we'll give you our opinion. Call in. We got you for our new segment of mediation.

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for listening. We will see you tomorrow.