The Viall Files - E371 Mediation Premiere with Naz Perez

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

Today we welcome you back to another episode of Viall Files to introduce a brand new segment, Mediation! In this format, we welcome couples, friends, enemies, coworkers, and anyone that is having a fight or is split on opinion as Nick and his guest will mediate the argument and help get to the bottom of who was right, who was wrong, and what takeaways our callers can have moving forward. We are joined yet again by Former Bachelor Producer, TV Host, Correspondent, and Founder of Heart Broken Anonymous, Naz Perez. Join us in welcoming this new format as our callers argue about when is it appropriate to play videogames, and how the methods of seasoning tacos can lead to major turmoil in a relationship.  “There is simply just sometimes a right way to do some things” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Manscaped: Get 20% off and free shipping when you use code VIALL at http://www.Manscaped.com  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nazperez See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

All right, welcome to Mediation. You guys are kicking off the premiere of Mediation. Maybe we'll change the name. I don't know. I like Mediation. I like it. It's Mediation. It's like Mediation. So you guys had a fight?

Yes. Great. Not great. Sorry. I'm sorry you're fighting, but also thank you for your generosity. I'm curious who wants to start telling the story. You come to and you realize, motherfucker's still playing video games. Yes, sir, he was. And I was walked out here like,

oh, I'm sure pathetic looking. And he was like, what's wrong? I'm like, I had a nightmare. You tell him about the dream. He continues to not be perfect by patting you on the head. Did you really pat her on the head? Woke up at 6.30. Still not in bed. Going forward, do not overpromise and undeliver.

So the issue is when it's taco night. It has led to more issues than you would expect. No, yeah, no, hey. I just want to. You have our attention. Yeah, you have our attention. There's some control issues going on

yeah but like if Abby wanted to throw Kurt a bone tacos would be a real easy one I don't think you've ever like really told me how like being

in the kitchen makes you feel because that's like how I feel when I go and I watch my movies and play video games you know I don't think

I'd ever heard you describe it like that we're just here to save marriages you know we fucking mediated You know, I don't think I'd ever heard you describe it like that. We're just here to save marriages, you know. We fucking mediated. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting and new, new special Vile Files episode.

I've been teasing about it. Naz Perez is back. Hello, everyone. She's back. She hasn't left. I'm really excited to be here. If you're tuning in for Taylor Thomas, and she unfortunately had a last minute issue come up, she will be back on this show.

We can't wait to have her. And because Naz was here recording the recap, we found out that Taylor couldn't make it. She stepped up, stepped in, and helped us launch this new segment that we're doing on our interviews. This episode is going to be different than normal because, well, one, we had this emergency, and then we've been toying with this idea for some time. Oh, this show started with one episode a week and it was in our interviews and we did our

Ask Nick's at the end and they were so popular, it turned into a new episode. But a lot of people like the dynamic and we're going to keep the Ask Nick the way the Ask Nick is. Long form conversations, people calling in, sharing their stories from their perspective to their situation. You know, long stories of like, this is what happened. This is the situation I'm in.

And then I share. Right. We're introducing mediation. What's mediation? Mediation. It's a segment. We just call it, we just,

we like mediation. You yourself said in this episode that you liked it I'm still listen it's just he's asked we landed on vile files and asked Nick and like it's fine but those are neither of which are my favorite names for this show or that segment so I before we jump on and call it mediation forever. Are there other words that you guys think would work better than mediation?

I'm just, we're just penciling it in. And we can, the audience, feel free to, if we want to call this segment something different. Yeah, you guys chime in and say.

I always, I was like thinking because couples calling in usually. So then I was like, what if we did like a three's a crowd or a three's a crowd or like three's a crowd source because we're crowdsourcing other.

Couple qualms. Menage a trois. We just listen to couple qualms. Every idea is a good idea. There's no bad ideas in brainstorming. I want to say thank you for that idea. Nick never likes my ideas. That's not true.

I liked it. Thank you. We have a lot of great ideas. Nick told me once he was like, you know what, Allie, you're a solid hitter. You get ones and tw he was like, you know what, Allie? You're a solid hitter. You get ones and twos. But every now and again, Amanda gets a home run.

When did I say this? First of all, money ball. That's a great money ball. Money ball, Allie. So that's not testing. Either way. But I also disagree. You hit home runs.

Thanks. Also, either way, when you build a team, if I'm the GM in this analogy, I'm a solid hitter you need you need your you need your hitter who hits for average and you need the long ball

both equally important to the team both are part of the team love this and every once in a while your person who hits for average

will still hit like five or six dingers a year and you know the home run hitter sometimes strikes out a little more often.

Yeah. It is true. I mean, if you hit a lot of home runs. I also am not saying that's how I describe you. But, good analogy. Love it. Well, so for today,

it's mediation. Today we're calling it mediation. And this was born out of the idea of Ask Nick? Sure. Well, our Ask Nicks are very popular. Right.

People like them, but there's other types of ways we can use this type of skill. Right. Uh, and we spend so much time with individuals and they're like situations that have been going, they're usually long situations that have been going on. And if it's like a one-off with a friend, there's usually a lot of backstory. Oh, the context. The context is there. It's great. We love it. Right. And usually, yeah, there's a deep root problem or whatever. And this is mediation because in relationships and fights, like every couple has little bickers in fights and maybe there's an onion to peel back. Maybe there isn't. Maybe it's just taco night. Yeah.

And maybe it's just about like, clearly you put water in it. Like, it's not too. This is really nice and fun for you because you get to now hear two sides of a story when Ask Nick, you're basically going based off information from just one person. Well, not only that, but the Ask Nick is again,

more backstory and it's seeing a situation a little more honest and this as we found out from our our two pilot ones which really went well i was honestly never sure how these go uh it's there were some context and we peeled it back but it was really about you know this the specific fight and then hopefully a solution roses are red violets are blue don't let your wild pube wreck you you heard it here first unless i uh i'm so glad manscaped is back uh as a friend of the show because i might i might be manscaped's best customer uh changed my life changed my relationship i'll honest. I'm assuming many of you, you're dating a guy who does one of two things. One, he doesn't do anything down there.

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like a traditional interview episode, but let's touch base on a couple of things. One, Naz, you mentioned at the end of the Vets Recap, you started Heartbroken Anonymous. My one question for you on that is before we get into our pop culture passions with heartbroken anonymous what is is there an out like if someone comes a heartbroken anonymous because it's a correct me a community for people dealing with heartbreak

um and i don't know much about Alcohol Anonymous other than like once you identify as an alcohol I believe you're like you're always you're always an alcoholic you're just in the sober but you're still an alcoholic yeah are you asking if people graduate from this program yeah so like I don't if we're using that analogy like hopefully you're not always in heartbreak there is a graduation from it because maybe you've the idea of if you're not always in heartbreak. There is a graduation from it because maybe you've, the idea of, if you're heartbroken, the implication, you can be healed.

And once you're healed, like, certainly there'll be, that's why, you know, like, there's a difference between like a wound and a scar. You can have a scar, sure, but it's still healed maybe, you know, maybe the scar, you know, for using analogies. But what is your kind of out or like how do you do does heartbroken anonymous have like a graduation program i love this question thank you for that question i really appreciate it because um we are not a 12-step

program in the sense where um a support group like aa will help you sort of get, and like you said, graduate through that thing that you're dealing with. Heartbroken Anonymous was born out of a stranger telling me about their heartbreak and being more comfortable talking to me about it than their own friends and family. And I was like, whoa, that's so wild. Here's this girl telling me like the deepest, darkest parts of her soul. She can't talk to her mom or sister about it. There's power in being around strangers and being able to release. And then I also realized like in my own heartbreak, which I had months later after meeting the stranger and learning the concept of telling strangers just makes you feel safe, is that I went

through a heartbreak and I was, I had nightmares. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. It was just so all mentally consuming. And I started going to therapy and therapy was like $175, $200 a session. And I was like, who has $800 a month to feel better? This is insane. I started doing all this research online and I found that the same part of your brain that lights up when you're going through emotional pain is the same part of your brain that lights up when you're going through physical pain is the same part of your brain that lights up when you're going through physical pain. And I was like, oh, so you're telling me that like heartbreak can literally feel like a blow and a punch to your stomach. Like that is how my brain is registering this pain.

And when I say heartbreak, again, like I mentioned in the former podcast, it's not a girl getting dumped by a guy. The definition of heartbreak, if you Google it, is overwhelming distress, which could be racial injustice. It could be losing your job. It could be the loss of a dream, heartbreak within yourself. Fights, friendship breakups are literally some of the biggest heartbreaks I see come through the group. And so when I realized that, I was like, man, wouldn't it be cool if we could put people together

to share stories? And so to answer your question, Nick, I'm not in the fixing business because I'm not a licensed therapist. I'm in the relief business. And I believe we as human beings on this earth just want relief. I remember when I was going through my breakup, I would literally Google how to get a tourist man back because I'm like into astrology. And having like, you know, gone through that and looking back at that years ago, I'm like, oh, I was just looking for relief. I just wanted to feel understood. I wanted to feel heard.

Taking that, knowing also the science behind being around strangers. So this man named Nick Epley did this incredible study on the Chicago transit system where he surveyed people before their work commute. And so when they would get on the subway car, they would either, most people look for a seat by themselves, right? Because we think it's going to be more peaceful to sit by ourselves and we don't want to be around anyone. And so they surveyed people after their commute on people who sat by themselves and people who sat next to strangers. And the people who sat next to strangers reported feeling happier. You just did. They did another study at MIT where they put two pieces of chocolate in a room. And if you went in and ate it by yourself, Nick, and then me and Amanda went in it right after you, we actually

would report it tasting more delicious, just sharing chocolate with someone else. So I was taking all this stuff in my head where I was like, I don't have a lot of money to feel better. I don't want to go to therapy. I want to go to therapy. I can't afford it. I think therapy is necessary for some people, if that's what you think is right for you. How can I create something that can be like in addition, that can create relief? I'm not here to sort of fix your heartbreak, but I'm here to remind you that you're not alone. We're in a loneliness epidemic. Vivek Murthy, who was a 19th Surgeon General of the United States under Obama, their job is to literally tour the United States and pick the one thing that they're

going to sort of tackle during the presidency, right? Sometimes, we've heard this, it's been drugs. Some Surgeon Generals are like, obesity, we got to tackle obesity. In 2016, it was loneliness and no one's talking about it. One in four Americans live alone. And I grew up in the nineties where if my parents were at work late, Nick, like my mom dropped me off at my neighbor's house and we were all friends and we would talk to people and now people don't want to get to know their neighbors. And so you throw a pandemic on top of that and heartbreak is just the most isolating thing in the world. And you can, you can be heartbroken over anything all the time to also answer part of your question. You can heal over a breakup with it if you broke up with some guy,

but you can also be heartbroken over losing your job a month later. So in summation, Heartbroken Anonymous is a place where you can come, you can share. Sharing is not required, but it's encouraged. You share your story. You listen to other people's stories. There's no crosstalk allowed. And it has been fascinating to just hear the amount of stories and the amount of diversity and how everyone is just feeling alone

under violence, under heartbreak, under addiction, under depression, I believe is loneliness. And so that's really the point of it. During the end of each meeting, we share something we're grateful for. So it's not sort of like ending in this like, and the one requirement to have membership in Heartbroken Anonymous is to have hope. And hope is a faith that good can be derived from painful situations and lead to personal growth. And so that's sort of what the ethos of Heartbroken Anonymous is. It's why I started it.

And in the pandemic, we went virtual and now people from all over the world join. And it's even better because now people can join without their camera on. You can be even more anonymous. But I'm doing them in person and I always do one on holidays because that can be a hard day. And Valentine's Day, our meeting's coming up where I think I'm going to do a hybrid meeting where you can join on Zoom or in person if you guys are in LA. You know, I'm here to remind you, you're not alone. And there's also a lot of science behind listening to someone else's story. You mattering, when we feel like we matter, and we listen to someone else, you feel like you matter. You matter to this person who

had no one else to talk to, and you're here in the meeting for them. And mattering feels good. And so you leave the meeting, not only reminding yourself that you're not alone. Because when we go through any type of heartbreak, I feel like we, I picture Charlie Brown with like the cloud over our head where we just think everything's happening to us. Like, oh, I can't talk right now, friend that's calling me.

Like, I'm dealing with this guy and not texting me back. And like, that's all the time. And it's like, when you go to a meeting like this, you're like, whoa, no, everybody is dealing with this. This is not just happening to me. And so you feel a sense of community. You feel like you're giving back. You feel like you matter and it makes you feel good and you feel a little less alone. And if I can make people feel better for an hour, to me, that makes all the difference. That's great. So how do people, because I think that was a really important distinction.

You know, like say, for example, like the show or the Ask Nick's and people are coming and asking for advice. They're not because it offers unique, just the ability to vent or grieve or offer relief, just let it out. Right. That's nice that you have that space. It's not necessarily for like, it's not counseling or you don't have, you know, that's nice that you have that space. It's not necessarily for like, it's not counseling or you don't have,

you know, that's really. So how do people be comfortable with being alone? Because we talk about that a lot. It's important to get in and know yourself. All while dealing with loneliness. You know, because those are two different, you can be alone and not feel lonely. You can be amongst friends and family and feel lonely. A hundred percent.

So how have you, what have you learned as someone who's been kind of. As an observer. As an observer of loneliness. Yeah. And as a participant. Someone who's been really lonely. Of things that are causing loneliness more and then a takeaway to feel less lonely regardless of your situation.

Yeah, I love that question, Nick. You're really good at asking questions. Thanks for asking that. I think what I've learned is there's so much shame around loneliness. I think like as somebody who was and has been lonely and is lonely often, I had to ask myself like,

why am I so embarrassed to like admit I'm lonely? What's so like scary about this word? And I've thought about, I've thought about the way that people who aren't lonely perceive the lonely. So for example, if we can all sort of close our eyes and remember being in middle school and like all the popular kids being at that lunch table and you being alone, people think loneliness is like contagious, right? Like, oh, we don't want to hang out with Susan. Like she's lonely. I'm going to catch it.

And so it's like both sides not working together, right? I'm over here and I'm scared to admit I'm lonely. And it's because a lot of people who aren't lonely, like don't really know how to deal with it or do anything with it. So what is the resolution? I think the resolution is, and I hate using the word normalize

because we see it in memes all the time, but it's like, in a sense, normalize feeling lonely saying, hey, like, do you want to hang out? Like I've been feeling kind of lonely lately and I just want someone to be around, but maybe I don't even need you to talk to me. Maybe it would just be really nice if you like wanted to hang like wanted to hang out and it's like, oh yeah, like

I've been feeling lonely too, actually. Like I'm in a relationship, but like, I don't know, maybe it's like one of the callers that we have later on in the podcast where like, I, it's just me and the dog and he works all the time. And, and so I think just the more we talk about it and we normalize it and we recognize that loneliness is a thing that is plaguing people and it's especially plaguing America. Really, really bad. It's plaguing the UK. The UK administered a minister of loneliness. And that's why I really, I mean, you guys can like all Google this.

People die of loneliness. And there's moments where doctors and Vivek says this in his incredible book called Together, if you guys have a chance to read it, where he was realizing that doctors weren't really taught how to deal with like the emotional side of pain when they're dealing with a patient. You know, they can like give medicine. And that was really what Heartbroken Anonymous was born out of is that why is it that when I stub my toe and it's not feeling good, I can go to the doctors, get a doctor's note, say, hey, like, hey, job, I'm not feeling well. Here's a note to prove it. I don't have to come in. But when we're going through a divorce, a friendship heartbreak, we've had a miscarriage, we're expected to wake

up the next day and resume life as is. And I think it's just a matter of having the discussion of how do we want to talk about and treat loneliness and heart, which is under all of that heartbreak and all this stuff I've said, how do we move forward? And, and it's getting better. People are talking about it, right? But it's also being done in a very commercial way, you know, and like, it's, it's, it's a lot of graphics and memes on Instagram, which are great, but a lot of it, again, is giving advice. And can we be more compassionate and just like sit back and listen? And I think that's what I really learned is that being a producer on The Bachelor is, can I just sit back and listen and give back to my community and let them sort it out and not sort of be like the ringleader in the

middle of the circus, you know, Hugh Jackman, greatest showman, and be like, this is what you all need to do to feel better. What if it's just okay that we all feel shitty, but at least we're not doing it by ourselves. It's okay, but hopefully we find. Have hope. Hope is the faith that can be derived from painful situations, lead to personal growth. And listen, that heartbreak that fucking ruined me was the reason I started Heartbroken Anonymous. And so that's really the hope that I hope people instill is that we do learn so much. And instead of thinking of heartbreak as something bad, think of it as like breaking your heart open. And we all learn how to love ourselves more after any type of heartbreak,

whether it's being rejected by a job or by our parent that never loved us the way we wanted to, or by a romantic partner, right? It's like, it's actually not a bad thing in retrospect years later who do we think is more heartbroken jason mamala or this is the pop culture segment nick you are so good at what you do you really are that was amazing incredible segue uh i opened raya so fast when that popped up like no and then i saw a meme right after that was like, I don't know who needs to tell you this, but you do not have a shot

with Jason Momoa. And I was like, why did this have to come up on my timeline? I don't know. Naz, you live in LA. Do you think I have a shot? I think you have a shot.

I think I do. If he heard you say what you just said, I think he'd be like, wow. I know nothing about Jason Momoa. And maybe he's like's got a like,

I only date celebs kind of policy. And no judgment. Maybe he just feels safer. But what if Jason came to a meeting? Maybe. Well, I do cover film and television. That's not, I don't know. I mean, that's how she can meet him.

Like in a maybe more organic way. I don't know. I mean, that's how she can meet him. Yeah. Like, in a maybe more organic way. Because you, you, you, you, he won't realize this because,

you know, maybe you're not an actor or somebody he's worked with, but you know what it's like to deal with celebrities. You know, you know what it's like to, you can know how to relate,

so then he'll feel safe around you and then you might, I don't know his, like, interest in women or his taste or whatever but like I can see it

and then they can make Nick the best man wow guys yeah oh Nick and then you would be my best man I would not be

your best man though you don't think you'd be Jason Momoa's best man Nick come on believe in yourself I love this man effect and you know what

I believe it maybe it's already done maybe I've already dated Jason and that's how I'm going to act but I will can I just say the Kravitz family I don't know what gene I believe it. Maybe it's already done. Maybe I've already dated Jason and that's how I'm going to act. But I will, can I just say the Kravitz family, I don't know what gene they got,

but like they are the coolest people in the entire world. Like talk about being cool without even trying to be cool. Every single Kravitz member that walks on this planet and I'm just not as cool as them. But I am pretty cool. Yeah. I feel like it's like a self-acceptance vibe from all the Kravitz family.

Like obviously it's so much more. They're so cool. It could I feel like it's like a self acceptance vibe from all the Kravitz family. Like obviously it's so much more. They're so cool. It could be like the incredible talent and God-given gifts that they've been blessed with. From their like physical features to musical talents. To multiple tattoos. But there's a lot of people like that. Okay, it's also the tats. I would say the tats and self acceptance

is the X factor. Because there's a lot of people who have the other stuff too. But there's something about the way it's all combined in them that is magnificent. I'm almost at self-acceptance. So maybe I'll get a couple tattoos over the weekend and throw my name in the hat.

Do you think he's in specific? Do you know if he's specifically into tattoos? I mean, I think everyone is. I think who's not into tattoos? Megan Fox is. Megan Fox, Machine Gun Kelly, got engaged. They got engaged. There we go.

We did the pop culture segment. What are your thoughts on that, Nick? Good for them. You've never had such short words and opinions. One could argue that they've been moving at an incredible rate of speed. And what's the relationship look like when things tend to inevitably slow down? That's always the risk. You could equate their relationship to one that started out a bachelor nation.

And a lot of relationships have, some relationships have blossomed in that certain bachelor nation. What do you think is the key to longevity in a public relationship? Make it not public. Make it not public. So you have to play like a Taylor Swift. Have it not public. Make it not public. So, you have to play like a Taylor Swift. Have privacy.

Like Taylor Swift. Yeah. Have a lot of privacy in your otherwise public relationship. I will say other celebrities, fun fact,

that have had two stones on their engagement ring are still together and that is Ariana and Dalton Gomez. Interesting. Natalie sent me a photo

of a two stone engagement ring. Emily Ratajkowski and her husband are still together and they have two stones and now Megan and MGK. So maybe the two-stone

is the key. Maybe that's Thanos' infinity stone. Natalie asked me if she ever crosses the line with engagement talk or future relationship planning. And which made me think, and I said, she just, she walks that road perfectly. She's stealth. So what does she

do? Does she send it to you on Instagram like that too soon? Or she's just like, oh, this just came up. She does it playfully. And there's a timing of which it's not like an inundation of like constantly. And it's never like, I never feel like, but it's just, it's, and I know the breadcrumbing words being used is like, like a trigger warning for relationships. But it's just a soft breadcrumb of like guiding me down a path for whenever that time comes. But I don't feel pressure.

And I don't feel like there's an expectation. But it's, you know. Can I ask you a question? Sure. How do you feel about women proposing to the man? Nowadays? Because I did a podcast on it and I was fascinated. That was really cool.

Me now, today? I go, fuck. Would you want to be proposed to? Sure. Do I want to? I don't care. You don't care. Like, it's so indifferent.

As long as I, as long as it's understood that I was ready. I also know like some gay couples, they'll both propose to each other. And of course it's like, yes, someone's going to propose first. That's different than

someone proposing second. But I think that's kind of beautiful and I think that's something all couples could adopt. I love that. I mean, when it's like, yes, someone's going to propose first. That's different than someone proposing second. But I think that's kind of beautiful. And I think that's something all couples could adopt. I love that. I mean, when it comes to like traditional, like a lot of traditional things in relationships, like the more we talk about relationships, the less traditional I get. And marriage, I mean, it is something we now do because we always have always done. So you think it's a little outdated maybe?

Sure. No, of course. I still think there's a value there. And as long as we kind of adjust it, every relationship, everyone for themselves, but the expectation of having a marriage the way our ancestors or even parents had it, I think is becoming more and more absurd. And unless we want to maintain the level of divorce rate that marriages currently have, drastic changes need to be met. So I do not need to get married to feel validated with my life that I accomplished some sort of goal. But I would love to get married, to have that bond with one individual that is worthy of marriage.

Yeah. That carries meaning for you. You want to make that oath out of love, not out of obligation. Let's preview. That preview? Let's reveal the new segment? I don't know.

Let's premiere. Premiere. Thank you. Mediation.. Premiere. Thank you. Mediation. Mediation. For now. Until the name changes. Until the name changes.

And again, we might, we'll probably just have one mediation per guest. I don't know. Let us know what you guys think. We're going to play around with it.

Trying something new. Got to keep things fresh. Here you go. how's it going guys it's good what are your names um i'm sarah i'm 23 and i'm ryan i'm also 23 all right welcome to mediation you guys uh are kicking off the premiere of mediation maybe we'll change the name i don't know i like the i like. I like mediation. I like it. Mediation. It's like mediation.

So you guys had a fight? Yes. Great. Not great. Sorry. I'm sorry you're fighting. But also thank you for your generosity.

How long have you guys been together? Just a couple quick, like, let's get some context here. We've been together for over two years

and we've been engaged for five months. Oh, congratulations. Do you guys live together? Yes. We live together. All right. Set the stage. I'm curious who wants to start telling the story. I'll let you go ahead. Okay. So before the day, he works overnight. So he'll work from 10 PM till 8 AM and I work a normal person's hour. So I work work from like 10 p.m. till 8 a.m. And I work a normal person's hour. So I work from 8 a.m. till like 4 p.m. We'll call them traditional hours. Traditional hours.

We don't want the third shift to feel like they're not normal. Just helping you out, Sarah. We also don't want to offend all the influencers. That's true. I work too. Don't work in hours. I'm normal. Traditional hours.

I'm just kidding. About nine to four. So that being said, he sleeps from about 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. around there. So we don't get a lot of time together because he leaves her work about 930. So on average, we get to spend like two and a half to three hours together per day wow it's not a lot and then it's not ideal no not ideal and then he works some weekends so what do you do for work uh i'm actually a production supervisor uh for a gatorade plant okay well interesting all of a sudden my thirst was quenched. Production supervisor for a Gatorade plant. Doing really important work to get us our Gatorade.

I love that it's called working through the night to get us Gatorade. I also love that it's called a plant. It made me think of like Peter Griffin in Family Guy. It's like you go to like, you know,

the Gatorade. I interned at Miller Brewing in Supply Chain and they have plants and they brew. We're getting off topic. Thanks for your service. And potential Gatorade sponsors.

Yeah. All right. So you guys don't get to spend a lot of time together. Yes. So this was on a Friday. He was supposed to work that weekend. So he works on a weekend, 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. So I get home from work, do the usual,

like take the dog out, whatever. And we had planned in the short amount of time we had before he had to go into work that night to go get food at this place, like just down the corner, go out to get dinner, maybe soak up a little bit of our weekend. And so when he woke up, he got a text saying that he didn't have to go into work that night, but he will have to go into work that night but he will have to go Saturday night so we had a bonus night that we got like given gifted that we usually don't get and especially on a weekend where he wasn't working and he was supposed to work like two weekends back to back so this was like a great bonus so we got to dinner we come home and we watched a movie or whatever and it's like

12 30 or so and I was like okay i'm gonna go to bed because i'm i've been up since like seven or so so i'm i'm gonna go to bed and he turned on the xbox he's like oh i'm just gonna play for a little while like hour and a half or something like 1 30 and i was like okay so sounds reasonable he slept his full eight hours already during the day but usually like on a weekend or whatever he'll like sleep all night and then take a nap and then go to work so usually not that big of a deal so he said i'll be in at like 1 30 i'm like cool sounds good left the door open for the dog because she'll come in with me or whatever so i wake up uh from a nightmare like in a cold sweat at like 3 30 and he was not um as dumb as it is my brother and i getting into a fight like in this like in a club it was very very weird a lot of my dreams take

places in clubs too i wonder what there is a reason for that i don't have the answer but i bet me and wallace knows um so it was more like intense and just kind of like a stressful dream so you woke up and assumed the love of your life would be next to you to comfort you i assumed right and she woke up distressed yeah distressed because you're like this fight with your brother and yet he is not there and maybe your thirst first thought was like is he kidnapped is he dead what happened exactly exactly my first thought you come to and you realize motherfucker still playing video games yes sir he was and I was walked out here like oh I'm sure pathetic looking and he was like what's

wrong like I had a nightmare and then I like just laid down on the couch next to him and he like maybe was like patting my head and then just continuing on playing. Yeah. Also, I want to check in. Do you agree so far with the version of this story? Yeah. that she hasn't touched on yet is that once I when I first got on to start playing um I got into like a xbox party with two of my friends that I hadn't talked to in months like hadn't had a text had a text communication with them no calls no xbox playing or anything so hopping out with these this this group of guys catch up with some, exactly. So I would argue for men,

that is like the one form of ketchup I've learned that a lot of men actually don't call their guy friends that they connect through video game. I say this in the most sincere way. Yeah, no, it's a, I, I catch up. I have a buddy. The only time we talk is about the green Bay Packers. There you go. You know? Yeah.

And that's how we, and they're at the end. It's like, Oh, are you good? Is life good? Yeah. Great.

Cool. And like, that's, yeah. That's not a thing in our world so much. Yeah. Anyway. So,

okay. Thank you for that additional important information. Now you woke up, you had the bad dream, and in a perfect world, what would have had happened when you woke up? In your perfect world. In my perfect world, he would have,

if he was still playing the game, maybe paused it and took off his headphones and said, what happened? Or like, are you all right? Okay, so it wasn't even so much that he was still playing video games. That's not the problem? I mean, that was a little bit of the problem when you said he'd be in bed at like 1.30

and then it was like two hours past that. And that's because you just like want a warm body sleeping next to you? Yeah, because we don't ever get to sleep together because he works the opposite. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Well, what I was going to say is... It's a rare thing to be able to sleep next because he works the opposite. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, what I was going to say, it's a rare thing to be able to sleep next to your partner for you guys. And it is a nice thing that often couples bond over. And I was going to say, Sarah, not having heard your full side of the story yet, just Sarah's, it's never about the video game, right? It's about, it's about the fact that you just have this underlying need deep down to want to be around and have quality time with your partner that you don't actually get. Often, yeah.

It wasn't about the video game. And it wasn't so much about sleeping because the average couple who gets suspended every night together have been like, kids and shit, you're sleeping. And also when you're sleeping, yeah, you're not like with them.

But also to your point, and we need to hear so much more of your side of the story, you're living in a reality where this is your only time to connect with these two people you haven't talked to in months. You live with this person and technically see them every day. Yeah. Right. So perfect world, he's sleeping next to you, but you wake up, he's not there.

Okay, not so perfect. You tell him about the dream. He continues to not be perfect by patting you on the head. Did you really pat her on the head? So she didn't really tell me about the dream. She came out, you know, I've got the headphones on, you know, it's, you know, very loud. So I'm not, I don't really hear what she says. So, I mean, she, she says she has a nightmare. I don't really hear what she says so I mean she she says she has a nightmare I don't hear her say that and then she just gets down on the couch next to me so I just assume whatever she said wasn't that important to me to hear it a second time or like like the clarity of exactly what she had said so when she sits down next to me I just assume okay you know because I I knew

the reason she wanted you know me to be in bed with her as for that warm body, as you were mentioning earlier. So once she just, you know, got down or sit, laid down next to me, I just, I'm like, okay, she just wants to be next to me. You know, even if, if I'm going to keep playing, as long as she's here with me, that's fine. So, I mean, I was kind of like playing with her hair a little bit, kind of, you know, rubbing her, rubbing her cheek and whatnot, um, just to kind of give her that comfort feel that I thought she was seeking. And how is the hair rubbing and the cheek rubbing going for you? Can you guys do it for us here?

Can you display maybe? We don't. It's okay. It's just a little. Oh, wow. That's amazing. So romantic. Can I interject for a second?

Because I think as women, and I want to interject for a second because I think as women and I want to speak for all women I guess I'm just kind of speaking for me and Sarah I want to know

if you feel the same way it's not about the warm body it's not about the presence it's about me wanting you to want to be

next to me because we never have time together it's the wanting to want to be with you and Dave playing World of Warcraft

can wait till tomorrow because I just had a nightmare is that how you feel Sarah? basically yeah it's like wanting yes not just you had me more

when it was like I don't get to sleep next to my fiance very often it's all one in the same I find it to be two very different the want you to want to sleep next to my fiance very often. It's all one in the same. I find it to be two very different. The want you to want to sleep next to me is different than I enjoy being next to you. Is it not?

It's different, but it's two feelings that go hand in hand, I think, right? Yeah, I feel like it's like, I want to, like, I miss it during the weekdays. Do you also? Are you just like perfectly fine having the whole bed to yourself and like this is inconsequential like this yeah so say i understand challenge you to just ask your partner yeah i understand both do you do you want to like sleep

with me and he would have been like i do but i never get to catch up with these guys is it okay if i keep playing for 30 more minutes in In that moment. Yeah, that would be a perfect solution. In that moment. Who? A lot of people do this. Two in the morning having a nightmare. No, not in the moment.

You're right. You're right. But it is an interesting thing you point out that the second, the wanting to want something is a very tricky thing that I think gets a lot of couples in trouble.

Because, I mean, let's just start with naming what we want in relationships. Exactly. And being upfront. And people in relationships have a hard enough time saying what they want and getting their partners to do it. Right. Like, that's hard enough time saying what they want and getting their partners to do it. Right. Like that's hard enough, especially over the years. It's near impossible to go a step further and say, I would love not to communicate with them at all

and hope that they do exactly what I want because that will make me feel even extra special. And that's, I'm not saying never do that, but like, whew, let's, let's just start with like, let's just start with, he actually like gets in bed and sleeps next to you. And if not,

you find out why and, and, and go from there. So anyways, let's get, get the full story. You, you play with hair,

you caress her cheek. And then, and then, and then what did you do, Sarah? About 10 minutes after that, because I was like, well, I said I had a nightmare. I was ignored. Like he didn't say a word, right? Like he kind of like acknowledged my presence. But after that, he was just like talking on the speakers or whatever, talking to his friends.

So I just was like, okay, I'm just going, you know, going back to bed. Like this is ridiculous. If you're not going to gonna like comfort i might as well just go back to sleep and so i think i think he said like i'll be i'll be in in half an hour or something like that right yeah yeah it was something like that i i did i did give her... False expectation. I see where this is going. It won't be much longer. Woke up at 6.30. Still not in bed. Come out and

the dog's laying next to him. He's still on the same game, talking to the same people. Do they also work at the Gatorade plant? They just don't sleep? So my one buddy, I guess he's just on… He's just on like…

Gotcha. Kind of stays up super late on weekends. You're a good conversationalist, I guess. Yeah. Wouldn't she love to hear some of that conversation? No, I'm just kidding. Wait, but I'm curious to hear your whole side of the story and like what your thought process was the whole

time. Cause we got up until the point where you said she, I didn't hear that. She said nightmare. You admittedly admit that you didn't really catch on to that and that you told her you'd be in there 30 minutes. What was going on through your mind after that moment? Um, so once she went back into the room, I was kind of like, well, I, I guess she's, I guess she's okay. And there, you know, I guess she, I guess in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, she came out here to get comfort after her nightmare. And, you know, I guess she got that comfort. If she didn't, I figured she would have just kept laying there, you know, because,

and maybe we were being too loud. I don't know if that, if that was the reason why she went back into the room and left. But I figured once she had gone back in there, she was okay. She got whatever comfort she needed. She was able to go back into the room and fall asleep again and not have this anxiety from that nightmare anymore. And yeah, things happen. You just get carried away. I'm like, okay, it'll only be 30 more minutes or so.

And just time keeps going on and on. More things keep happening in the game. We keep having conversation. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? And I want you to try to be as honest as possible. And I'm really putting you on the spot here. But when you said it'll just be 30 more minutes,

in your heart of hearts, did you really think it was going to be 30 minutes or were you just saying that to her because you thought that's what she needed to hear so she would go back to bed and fall asleep no i at the time when i told her i mean it seemed like the conversation was kind of dying down it seemed like we were kind of it was it was getting towards the end of the night for us. So I was thinking, yeah, I mean, I don't think, you know, I wasn't expecting to be up that much later. All right, so you sincerely tell her 30 minutes and then she falls asleep. But you guys are having a riveted, you're having fun.

And you're probably thinking, correct me if I'm wrong, she's sleeping. So like, why don't I, do I? Yeah, so. Like she hasn't come out back here yet. Like… That's exactly it. Why don't I… Should I… Do I… Yeah. So… Like she hasn't come out back here yet. So… So we saw the assumption on your part, which you weren't wrong because that was your reality.

Sarah, if you were to… If you were to look at your partner and finish this sentence, how would you finish it? By starting it by saying, it was never about the nightmare. It's actually… Well, can I… Hold on hold on can i that's good but

can i ask a question of course yeah because i just want to finish the i guess was there a did you guys fight about this the next morning how was this handled okay so how was this addressed got up i got up at like six or whatever o'clock. And I was like, seriously, like all night long, like you had the whole night to kind of figure this out. And like, I understand you didn't get to talk to these people, whatever, but at some point you could have turned it off because then it plays out into our next morning because we wake up around like seven or eight with the dog. And then we have the morning before he has to go back to bed because he would have slept all night.

So he didn't need eight hours during the day. He would have only needed like four or five. Like he would have needed a shorter amount of sleep before going back to work. Babe, I'm tired. I need to go to bed. Yeah, basically. Cutting into more Sarah time.

Yeah. So it like leads from the night into the next morning. And he was like, well, I'll come to bed. I was like, it's kind of pointless now. It's like six o'clock in the morning. I'm going to sleep for another hour. And then you're going to want to go to bed at 10 in the morning. So I was like, what is the point?

So, well, I mean, the point is you'd have an hour with your partner who you want to spend more time with. Not ideal. And I'm not saying you didn't have a right to be frustrated. I'm just, if you're asking what the point is, it is an hour and a half of time that you say you don't have. So did, and did you get defensive when she, like, how did you guys, was there a fight?

Or were you guys just agreed to be annoyed at each other? Was it a passive-aggressive annoyance throughout the day? Or was there an argument that pursued? And where are we now with this issue? No, I wouldn't say it pursued that much longer. I didn't get defensive after that. I could clearly tell how upset she was with me for it. And no, I'm never one to try to argue with her.

If I'm in the wrong, I'll apologize. I'm not going to... How am I trying to word this? Get defensive. Yeah, it wasn't... Did you feel as if you were in the wrong? Yeah, I'm not. I can see both sides here.

Well, I'm curious if he felt like he was in the wrong. Yeah, I feel like yes and no. I feel like knowing how late I did stay up playing with them and telling her, hey, I will be there pretty soon here. Don't worry about it so then when I never did show up you know that's that's kind of a that doesn't exactly make me look the best but you know at the same time you know playing xbox is kind of a way for me to recharge decompress kind of kind of just take take a break from reality for a little bit and

especially playing with some buddies as well that I just haven't talked to in a while and catch up with them was nice as well so it's both ways but you know end of the end of the day once I saw how upset she was about it like I I apologized to her there was nothing really nothing more I could have could have done I didn't I didn't want to defend myself because I knew it would have probably escalated into a further argument and I didn't want that to happen. So what is your guys' plan, if at all?

And Sarah, did you accept the apology? Yeah, I did. And he ended up coming to bed for like the hour, hour and a half or whatever. But then like, yes, where are we now? So then again, like this morning, had some extra time and he got up with the dog, took her out and then spent three hours

on the Xbox in the morning while I was doing like my regular chores. And I was like, well, this is where it's like annoying. So right now we don't have a plan to avoid this going forward. Well, I think we also don't have an honest exchange of what's actually going on. Like I said, underneath the video game and underneath your time with your friends that you really need, like you work a lot like that. Those are

strenuous hours on any human being. When a man comes home, he needs to go be in his masculine so that he can come out and be in his masculine and you can be in your feminine. And men need that time away, which is why I would love for you to just say it was never about the nightmare. It's actually blank because then we'll find out how he feels about that. Maybe he says, well, listen, I'm always going to need this time with my boys on the video game. And then that's another bridge you guys have to take. Well, just out of curiosity, you guys telling the story to us, are you guys learning new bits of information

about the other person's point of view or you've already had this kind of conversation? I feel like a little bit like, it's definitely easier now because this was like two weeks ago maybe. So it's definitely like a little less like emotional than just waking up and like having this conversation. So like the fact that he truly didn't hear me changes a little,

but it's more like for me frustrated that like he said this amount of time or like, I will be there and then you're not. And then I will be there and then you're not. But we need a plan going forward. Right. There's no plan. No. Right.

Without a plan, this will only get worse yeah here and help me out but like here's where i think that's it the dude you you both have a problem right the your your problem sarah is that not only do you want time with your partner and rightfully so that you and to nas's point you don't want you don't want him loving you to feel like a chore yeah who wants that no one wants that you want someone to want to love you that's part of feeling love that it's like you they enjoy loving you you know so and and you having to remind him of this sometimes feels like you have to like it's not now now i don't like fine you're in bad but now it doesn't feel like you want to be here right and now you're stealing

that from me and your inconsistency with not falling in line with your word is making me feel like i'm not getting that love that i need yeah right? Yes. I don't know. I don't want to put words in there. So that's your problem that he needs to be aware of. Ryan, your problem that Sarah needs to be mindful of is that like you and then you have this job. Your job is what it is. And for the time being, that is your job. And maybe I'm assuming that you'll maybe you don't want to do that forever or at least

the schedule. But for now, that's the hand that the relationship has been dealt and man like yeah i don't i don't know if i don't know if i need to be on my masculine side but i do need like decompressing i do like to just just you know be on my phone you know your video games is me on the phone looking at Packer Twitter, you know? And I just need that sometimes, right? And you guys need to put some boundaries and expectations when video time, game time, and quality time happens. But Ryan needs to feel like he's not being instructed what to do, like he has all these fucking rules, like you're his parent, Sarah.

Or made to feel guilty for doing something that relieves stress for him what to do. Like he has all these fucking rules. Like you're his parent, Sarah. And. Or made to feel guilty for doing something that really. He enjoys. For him. Yeah. That he actually needs to be a good partner. Or like, or feel maybe emasculated that he's like, Hey guys,

well, I'm sorry. I'm just, I'm not allowed to do this. You know, like, you know, Sarah doesn't let me,

you know, you'd hate that. Right. And then Sarah, like you, you know, again, correct me if I'm wrong at any point here

but like yeah you don't you don't want to set so many boundaries where it's like you like you've set all these rules where now like you've basically stolen any chance away from you feeling like he even wants to do this like you know so you guys have to first recognize, I want, Ryan, I want you to feel loved. That is a prior for me. This is the job that we have. I'm going to want to say no to this. And then you now, Sarah, empathize with the fact that he might need to decompress. And going forward, just number one, Ryan,

do not over-promise and under-deliver. You need to be very mindful, Ryan, that when you are spending time with Sarah, and I don't know exactly how you, but you need to go out of your way to make it feel like you, like, I don't know if you do this, but like you definitely making her like,

like the hot, huffing and puffing or reminding her what you gave up for her is not, and people make that mistake all the time. They'll want to like remind their partner of what they're giving up for them as a way to be like, I'm doing this for you. And all that does is come across as you're making me fucking do this for you.

And it doesn't come across the way you hope it does. And she's not receiving it the way you hope she is. It just sounds like she has to. So when you give up the video games or whatever it is, be present and make her feel like the only thing you want to be doing right now is sleeping next to her. And Sarah, you just have to trust him,

even though I'm telling him to essentially fake it. I'm just kidding. But you know what I'm saying? You just really have to like do that. And you, Sarah, have to find a way to recognize that unfortunately the job is what it is and not only like

he can only be that person that we just described if he still feels like he can have some independence and some alone time and some time alone in his thoughts because he can't do that at work. And with you, like he loves being in with you and talking with you about stuff. But like we all want our own time, you know, and my guess is, is you have the ability to have more of you time than our own time. And my guess is you have the ability to have more of you time than he has time for himself. And you guys have to figure out and set some boundaries around how you guys are going to do that.

And definitely, Ryan, you have to respect those boundaries because it will really get you in trouble. And then you guys will just resent each other. So I think the goal here is to not resent each other going forward because this is such a little thing. And I love that you guys were our first call for mediation because like the video game playing.

It's amazing. It's like the universal like issue with young couples. I also love that you guys are like 23 and like coming on and doing this together. And I think it's like really brave and honest. Sarah, cover your ears for a second. Take the earphone off. Ryan. Sarah can't hear

me. Send her like you know text messages throughout the day or FaceTime her while you're working and just like those little things that will go the longest way. Thinking about you blah blah blah and you'll get more video game time. I promise.

If you just let her know that you're thinking of her while she's feeling lonely during the day. All right. All right. You can give it back to Sarah. Yeah. That was really sweet, Jake. I just lectured him about something.

Anyway. Yeah. I don't know if we... I think in some of these mediations, there might be a you're totally wrong and you're totally right. But I feel like this is just a very common, relatable... I think actually in most mediations,

you're both right to feel the way you feel. How do we come together and fix it so you guys can move forward in a loving... That's the word I'm looking for. In a good way. All right. How do you guys feel? I don't know.

We're just a couple podcast people sharing our opinion. Yeah, I mean, it's good. Yeah, because we talked about it before we came on and we're like, do you think they're going to obviously pick if one of us was clearly in the right and the other was in the wrong? And we kind of both were like, yeah, I feel like they would probably pick you, Sarah. So it's interesting. It didn't play out, I guess,

exactly the way I was expecting. No, yeah. Unless someone called in and was like, maybe, I hope they do. I mean, I hope we get a variety. Nick's ready for that. I hope we get a variety of stuff. But no, these are the most beneficial.

Yeah. Because most, the idea of this mediation thing is like, you guys seem like a relatively happy couple. Things are going great. But like, fuck, people fight. People disagree. It's hard to, you're, you know,

and there's always like other reasons for the things that lead up to the thing that you're talking about. The underlying reason. And it's hard to communicate how you feel in a non-predatorial way. Right? Yeah.

Like, I'm feeling lonely so you have to do this so I don't feel lonely anymore. It's not about, it's about like, this is how I feel. How can we come together?

And productive was the word I was looking for. And move forward in a loving and productive way. There you go. All right, well, hopefully it was helpful. Thanks, guys.

Nice seeing you, Ryan and Sarah. Best of luck. Let us know if you guys are still in love down the road thank you for everything you do we love Gatorade over here yeah

thanks Gatorade take care guys how's it going what's up what's up it's going well hello hello who do we have with us

I'm Abby and this is Kurt. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you guys. Hi, guys. How old are you guys? I am 26. And I am 29. Okay.

How long have you guys been together? About four years. All right. Live together, live separately? Together. All right. All right. Who's telling the story?

Who's starting? I'll tell it. Okay. Yeah, yeah you do it two for two so far and yeah uh so I don't know if you want both issues we have but um so the issue is when it's taco night and we're making the taco meat i say all the meat should be cooked first then you add the seasoning that way you can ensure like all the meat is browned every you know seasoning's not going to alter anything he says that the seasoning should be added as you're cooking it god i can't wait to be in a relationship. A serious question though. Is this like an actual point of contention?

Yeah. It has led to more issues than you would expect. No, yeah. No, hey. I just want to... You have our attention. Please proceed. Yeah, you have our attention. I have a strong opinion on tacos.

On taco meat and seasoning? And I took great pride in my tacos. Natalie and I have taco night at least twice a week. Okay. And I cook my tacos like Abby. Kurt, what is your reasoning for this bizarre way in which you cook tacos? Bizarre? Okay. Well, I see where we're landing already.

I'm kidding. I can't wait till an actual chef writes the email and tells us that Kurt's right. There's no right or wrong way to make tacos. My reasoning is that you have to get the seasoning in there as it's cooking so that it all breaks down. It's all part of the flavor. And you're not just sprinkling it on top

and you have a powdery seasoned mess. Once you put the seasoning in, how much water do you apply to the ground beef or whatever your protein is? I don't put any in. Yeah, no water either. No water. Okay, that's...

Can we get to the part where this is affecting their relationship? Well, no water either. No water. Okay, that's... Can we get to the part where this is affecting their relationship and why? Well, that sounds nuts. I just... And it just... Because you have been transparent,

I should be transparent. I don't like to cook. I think it's very dangerous and it's a hazard and people cut their fingers all the time and we don't talk about it enough how dangerous the kitchen is.

But if I were to make tacos, I would do it the Kurt way. All right. And I actually do it the Kurt way. All right. And I actually do it in between. I use ground beef. I brown, I cook the meat till I could eat it

without any more. If I wanted to just eat ground beef cooked, I could. I wouldn't have like, it would be fully cooked. It would be medium well to well done. Right.

Right. And then I add the seasoning and then I put what is, I basically put enough water in that it's kind of, well, it looks like soup at first. And then I'd have the burner on and keep stirring it. So it simmers, it gets in the ground beef and it evaporates to the point where it's just the consistency you might enjoy. So it's fully flavored, fully mixed. It's not watery at all. And that allows me to cook the other things I'm preparing.

Okay. Honestly, that's it. See, I just use the natural grease, I guess, leftover from the meat being cooked instead of adding water. So I'm assuming you both learned from your parents how to do this, but why can't you guys, why, why are you both, and this is the crux of it. Why are you guys like dying on this Hill? I can talk about why I'm dying on this Hill because so my wife, Abby, she is,

she loves to cook is great at cooking and chooses to do a lot of the cooking. And I want to do more of the cooking. But this and many other methods that I do are not up to her standards. So then I don't get to do the cooking. Oh. And it's, wow. And have you expressed this desire to want to literally do more around the house? Yes.

Yeah, I'll give him that. Well, Abby, I'll tell you the underlying emotional childhood traumatic reason I don't cook is because my mom's the best cook in our family. And every time when I was little, when I was teaching, I would ask her to teach me, she'd be like, I'll just do it. And it created this inherent fear within me where I won't even, and this is so true, I won't even heat up a man's pizza

because I'm like, what if I fuck it up? Like what if the crust is soggy? And so just based off the information we have now, it sounds, I don't want to use the word emasculating because I don't think I'm someone that can use that word because I am not a man. But it sounds like you're kind of scaring him out of doing something that he's trying to like do for the both of you. It's like, if he's going to make tacos, let him make it his way. Because if you only like tacos your way, then it makes him feel like his tacos aren't good enough and they'll never be good enough,

which translates to, I'm not good enough to be in the kitchen and do stuff around the house and be a partner in this marriage. That's a very good point. I do have a question though, Abby. Have you tried Kurt's tacos? That's a serious question. you have yes and what is your honest well do you like them yes yeah but not as much as you but hold on yeah but like is it yeah but is it the like objectively the taste of the tacos the taste is the same it's the same meat that i use okay i i i appreciate your honesty but it's a, it's totally a mental thing. And really like if he's the one who gets home first and so then, you know, he cooks because it's just more convenient that way, then it's more of make whatever you're going to make, however you're

going to make it. And I'll come in when it's done. So I don't see how you made it. So there's some control issues going on. Yeah. What's really interesting, though. Did you just pick up on what she just said? She said when it's more convenient. How did that make you feel, Kurt? Honestly, that part doesn't bother me because I like to help out.

I like to be supportive around the house. That's an act of service. Your partner wants to relax and he's there to step up when they want to. Right. And that's where the bigger thing I think is when I think I'm doing the act of service because that is something like that's big for me, the act of service and like words of affirmation and I think I'm doing something really nice and then it makes her more

that's interesting yeah that's interesting what's to keep you from making it the way she wants it then if that's if the act of service is for Abby

and the love and this is all a love act we're talking about two different we're trying to combine two different things. Because there's… Yes, he could.

You're truly to that point. But he also like… Doesn't want to be like… He wants to help in the way he wants to help. And like it's also like tacos. And is my guess. But I do… It's…

When you were telling the story, Abby… I actually, I'm more you, especially in the kitchen. I, I'm more the cook than Natalie is. Um, we like a lot of the same things. We cook a lot of the same things like taco nights twice a week. So like creatures, uh, habit and a lot of the dishes, it's like, I'm a good cook and I'm really good at cooking the things I like. And so she likes the things I cook and now like, she like, So she likes the things I cook. And now she will help me prepare stuff. But I recognize that I'm a little bit of a taskmaster in the kitchen. And I have a certain way of I like it done.

And she likes it. And we both agree that we really like how I cook it. But there have been things where I did what there have been things where she will say, I want to do it this way or she's done it this way and I'll be like oh this is this is good this is better and I really don't care how we get to the destination you know what I'm saying I don't care about the journey as long as the destination is great but you know you you do Abby and I recognize I empathize with you in the moment the first time if nothing was doing anything a certain way and I recognize I empathize with you in the moment the first time if Nelly was doing anything a certain way

different than the way I prepare it I'd be like I just I need to leave because I would I know that would make Nelly feel I would do to Nelly what your mom did to you in a way I mean you know I recognize that I can that presence of

of like watching like you're going to critique their every fucking move that's annoying I mean I would hate to I know that I do that but the fact that you could say the tacos taste essentially the same and yet you're still willing to like

still want to maintain this control over this and I think it falls back to the control thing for me too because it's like, well, I want my way to be a thing that we do and is good because we do so much of

so many other things her way, which I love and think are great. But then it's like, I do want to have like a couple things that are mine. That you can own. Do you feel like

total transparency and honesty that do you feel generally a general statement in the relationship is you, and I think you kind of just said it, but just want to clarify, you wish there were more things that you bring to the relationship that you've introduced and you guys as a couple, or you're doing it your way and that she either enjoys or at a minimum respects that it's your stuff. Yeah, that's totally it. Kurt, will you be okay with one of those things

not being the tacos and cooking tacos the way she likes and maybe owning something else you guys can pass on to potential future children? I don't know. I got to say though, I got to say it's possible, but if Abby wanted to throw Kurt a bone, tacos would be a real easy one because they're tacos and they're hard to fuck up. But is it easy if you wanted to throw Kurt a bone, tacos would be a real easy one. Because they're tacos and they're hard to fuck up.

But is it easy if you have to swap? I mean, do they really taste the same? Tacos are hard to fuck. What's your protein? Ground beef. Yeah. Hard to fuck up. Well, it's up to Abby's taste buds if she likes.

She just said they're the same. Okay. Well, they're the same. I mean, it's really because he'll use the same seasoning as me. So, I mean, as long as it's the same. It's solely when it gets added in the process. Yeah, as long as we're using the same ratio of meat to seasoning, there's honestly really.

Have you guys ever had a test? How fun would it be to like do it both ways, Kurt, right? Wouldn't this be fun when you come home, Abby, he makes it both ways and you decide which one's better and then that's the one you guys make in the in that format or in that process in that way moving forward i actually really like that we should do that and kurt could own that maybe yeah yeah a little blind taste i love that idea and then you're spicing it up a little you know who knows what could happen after it's fun i don't know if people get down after a talk at night.

Is that a thing couples do? We do. The only problem with that, though, is that… Are you competitive, Abby? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's a problem. Abby jumped on that a little too quickly.

I think it makes it more fun. It depends. It depends. It depends what the goal is. If the goal is to compete, then yeah, fun. Which is why Abby jumped on all of it because she sees the opportunity to win. And we're not looking to solve this particular problem. This problem is about Kurt feeling like he's bringing things.

He wants to feel valued. It's a little bit of respect, I guess. So I think there's a little bit of respect i guess and yeah so i think that there's a potential i think there's a potential problem with like having kirk get his way be through this competition that abby can still win i think nick brings up a good point i want to keep fostering this behavior to not come to a resolution i think they're like there's but there seems such a such a solvable problem because you like you recognize Abby that like of course do you recognize you're probably being slightly unreasonable Abby yeah yeah so and knowing that and I'm with you I can be that person sometimes. What do you think is the best idea to make him not feel that way? I think it's really just giving him full creative control, so to speak, over whether it's taco meat or something else. And just not being the one in charge of the kitchen.

If he's helping out in cooking, then let him help out and cook. End of story. Now, just out of curiosity, is that like your, why do you, I mean, because I feel like a lot of people would be listening and be like, she wants to help, you know? And you're just like, no, I want to do it.

And I'm just wondering, like like what is it about that that is what what what do you feel like inside that you're giving up by potentially letting him do that because clearly it's not about the tacos the tacos there's there's something what are you losing yeah what are you losing the other way i think it's because it's the kitchen, like doing other things around the house. Go for it. Have fun. Like, I don't really care, you know, what he does or how he does it that much. But like, if it's the kitchen and, you know, generally we'll together kind of meal plan

for the week, but most of the time it's me. So it's like, I already have the meal in my head. I know how i want to do it and all of those types of things um so it really comes down to the kitchen is more my domain just because i like to cook and bake now just to clarify kurt is it because i thought before are there other areas where you feel like is it true what ab Abby is saying that her dictatorship only reigns in the kitchen or does it bleed into other areas where you feel like your opinion is not quite as appreciated as you wish it would be sometimes? I think for the most part, it is mostly just in the kitchen. Occasionally, doing some house cleaning, things like that. Outdoor stuff is all totally fine. That's all I can do pretty much whatever I want with backyard, front yard,

taking care of the lawn. But some cleaning things know, it kind of is the same way. I was never a soft scrub person cleaning bathrooms. I was a spray person and. Soft scrub's where it's at. Yeah. See, we got married. I was like, I had never been a soft scrub person. She's like, no, you have to use soft scrub. And then I didn't know this led to me almost dying in our bathroom because I created a gas when I used the soft scrub and mixed it with something else. Yeah, no. I'm so more Abby in this situation because there's just like there's just simply a right

way to do some things. And I have heard that so many times. But E for Effort Cur, like you're trying, you know, and you want to help. And so it seems like you guys are just, you're so close, you know, it's like, maybe it's just a matter of give and take. You do a good job of splitting things 50-50. It's more of just those little bickering arguments of how to do it. I think it is the give and take piece that you mentioned. And you were talking earlier, I don't think you've ever like really told me how like being in the kitchen makes you feel because that's like how i feel when i go and i watch my movies and play video games and whatnot and that's like my escape like putting

it on that like that's exactly i that you know i don't think i'd ever heard you describe it like that that's so that that like changes completely how I'll do the tacos however you want if that's like what it comes down to. We're just here to save marriages, you know. We just fucking mediate. I just want to acknowledge

how beautiful it was to watch you recognize how she felt and you, Abby, sharing that and being open to changing your opinion in ways when it comes to tacos for Abby.

That was really beautiful to witness. So thank you, both of you. Yeah, I think I just thought it was like, this is the way I do it and not really thought into the reasons why it's the sticking point. Well, that's what's interesting, too, because the problem, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seemed like it all came from intention. You didn't realize her intention was something that meant something to her

it felt like she was minimizing your opinion or capabilities in a way where it's just like it's almost like she didn't want your help because she didn't trust you to do it the right way and I was like what do you mean I can fucking do it

we personalize so much in life. And maybe, Abby, you didn't even know you felt that way until this moment. Sometimes we have to get clear within ourselves. No, I'm saying sometimes

we got to get clear within ourselves. You know? Well, I hope it was helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, yeah.

This is really good. I didn't know what we were getting into this whole time. Honestly, guys. Me neither. I just started doing this. And I we were getting into this whole time. Honestly, guys, me neither. I just started doing this. And I got roped into this. Because with our ass...

Abby, was it your idea? Or was it Kurt's? Yeah, I follow you and listen to you. So yeah. So Abby knows... On our ass, Nick, it's a one-off. And it's more like I've been dating someone for nine months and blah blah blah

or my husband it's always the one sided like long form story it's not it's not taco night so taco night mediation

thanks guys thanks so much such a pleasure thank you guys best of luck yeah alright take care to tacos

to tacos god I can't wait to be in a relationship and that be like my my qualms in life you know happily married he wants to do too much help he wants to help too much in the kitchen i don't feel bad for any of you did you guys have an alley to man as a single woman what did where where would you guys stand on on video game and taco gate taco taco I can see more of like the taco gate perspectives on both sides and I think that one was an easier oh perspective shifting I the video game one I feel like I took more of her side you could probably relate to it we can relate just in terms

of I also enjoy quality time so if it was someone purposely I understand needing some time with your guys of course but knowing then that it bleeds into the next day and then he's gonna have to sleep and it's just oh in that individual situation like he did more

wrong I don't well she didn't do anything wrong because she was sleeping um but in terms of how to address it going forward they needed to both adjust equally is how i saw it because yeah like yeah he he should have ideally recognized. He should have known that she liked this. They've been dating for this long. He said I would be there in 30 minutes. Like, he should have known.

But true or false, guys? Like, some people lack the foresight. Like, I remember when she said, like, and I feel this way all the time with friends, with everything where I'm like, wouldn't you know? I'm always like, wouldn't you know that that would cut into tomorrow? Like, because I'm always thinking a step ahead.

And I think sometimes I need to check and remind myself that sometimes there are humans that don't, that lack the foresight and aren't really thinking about tomorrow and don't mean to ruin tomorrow and are just in the, what are your thoughts on that?

As someone who's like in a relationship i think there's a little bit of that i think you can blame it on that a little bit but i think for the most part everyone's capable of being like how's this gonna affect tomorrow i don't know if they have the foresight to be like how's this gonna affect you know my relationship as a whole right i do I did this like TikTok about it. And it comes down, like, I think people need to stop using the phrase, the little things in relationships, especially when it comes. What do you mean by that?

What does that mean? A lot of times, I only ask this for the little things. Oh, do people say that? You don't? You've never said that? I don't have a lot of experience in long term. It's the little things. Or sort of like, it's the little things. It's the little things. You know, when people talk about like You don't? You've never said that? I don't have a lot of experience in law. It's the little things. Or sort of like, it's the little things.

It's the little things. You know, when people talk about like small, like gestures of kindness, sort of describing those, it's like the little things in life. Francesca Farragher was a guest and she talked about, she described acts of service as a love language.

And some of those things were like, I just like it when you like hold my bag or gets me a glass of water. It's the little things. They literally sound like very easy things or gets me a glass of water. They literally sound like very easy things to do for a partner. And I think we've gotten a habit of identifying them as little things. And even though we have the best, and we've all done this, all of us have done this. And I think there's a price to be paid by describing as little things, because if you

are someone who gives love through acts of service not how you receive love but your primary way of showing love is through acts of service like myself i am an acts of service guy i've realized this you know like i haven't had a girlfriend since like taking the love language test like i mean i guess like the but like a real like healthy you know like vanessa and I were just trying to survive through the bachelor world, but like being in a, hey, I have a relationship and it's going well

and I have the time to think about my love language. And this is like the first one. And I realized that while I like quality time and I like physical touch, I give love through acts of service. I think it's a significant number one. Is it because you like to get love through acts of service or that's just how it is? I haven't gone that far. I just know that's what I do

and that's how I show it. For example, Natalie, being a surgical tech, she has surgeries in the morning. And so when she works, she's up at like 5.456. Now, I usually wake up early, like 6.30, 7. But that extra 30 minutes is not normally when I get up. And so when she has to go work, I get up with her to make her coffee, feed the dog, so she can sleep a little bit longer.

I warm up her car. It's LA winter. It's not that cold. I start her car and so she can sleep a little bit longer I make her coffee and you know

like pack her lunch again I love that I'm like here you go I love all this and it's just it's a little thing but when

when we classify them as little things in relationships I think subconsciously it has a way of like minimizing its effect it almost it's a way of like minimizing its effect. It,

it almost, it's a fine line. Even if we can take it for granted, like I'll, if in bed, I've always done this in any girl if I've ever had, like if there, it always starts to say,

it's like, babe, I'm thirsty. And I'm like, Oh, I got you. Like no woman that I'm dating. I'm going to,

is going to have to get out of bed. Like you're comfortable. I'll go get you water. Like I will slay I'm going to, is going to have to get out of bed. Like you're comfortable. I'll go get you water. Like I will slay that dragon. And then at some point, it's like down the road, a year in, I'm thirsty. And they just look over at me. And I'm just like. You're the water boy now.

Yeah, I become the water boy, you know? And I think sometimes when we call it the little things, it implies that that's the thing you do. It becomes the job, not the act of service. You like steal that act of service away from the person

who is doing those things to try to show you love, not to like get you water. They're literally trying to show you love. So you're saying we should call it like bigger things. I don't know. Well, it's interesting. It's just a little thing we do.

I think it's interesting because I think the origin of it in calling it little things, it's meant to call attention to someone being really thoughtful. Like it's not big glaring things. It's them going out of their way to discover small things

or not small things, but things that could be easily overlooked and taking it upon themselves to identify those things and show up for a partner in that way. So it's like almost in the origin story, I think it's meant to be complimentary as a little thing, but it's become almost diminishing in the sense of like, it's just little. Yeah. Yeah. That we shouldn't, we shouldn't think of it in a diminishing manner. It should be thought of as more. And I agree. We don't even mean to. We're not even trying to diminish it. We're just like, I think our subconscious, hey, if you call something little or small, the point of us saying little or small is that like, I'm not asking for much. In relationships, we're always

like, even whether we're aware or like our subconscious, we don't want to ask too much. We don't want to be, oh, I'm so hard to date because I ask so much. I'm needy. I have these great expectations. And so we call them little things. I agree with you. And all of a sudden, it's just like, I just only ask for little things. And meanwhile, at no point does that partner who's doing all these little things feels like they've done anything for you to make you feel love. And the next thing you know, you're like, well, when's the last time you got me anything? And I'm not saying just because someone does acts of service because there's how you give love and how you receive love. So just because I'm an acts of service guy,

I still have to step up in other areas that aren't as natural because Natalie feels love that way. But I still, I would hate that to be stolen from me. That ability to show her love. And sometimes it's a matter of just letting that person know. That that's your love line or that's how you give love. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're spot on, Nick.

I think words are really important and we need to pay attention to how we say words. And I wonder if we called it like the loving things. Like how different people would treat it. I think words are really important. I think I like that you have made that observation. Calling it the little things is a slippery slope. Because it's not a little thing. It means a lot. And like the precision of words, because it goes back to what you were saying about like all we have is our word. So even though it seems like, oh, it's not a big deal. I said I would be there in 30 minutes and I was actually there later. It's like those small details that can have such a big impact because I think so

much of a relationship is feeling seen and understood. And those small miscalculations can really create a divide there. 100%. I think in my personal love journey, like all I've ever wanted more, because I think anyone can feel or make someone feel loved. because I think anyone can feel or make someone feel loved. And I am just dying to really feel understood. And I think that's really under what a lot of people want is we just want to feel understood. I think more so than loved sometimes. Sure.

How much do you feel like you totally understand yourself? And that's, I love that you asked that question. I'm getting there. But I think you have to really know yourself, right? To expect someone else to understand who you are. So I think that's great that you brought that up. Because I've always, I think we all do, but it's just like, I don't know if people like get me, you know?

I don't feel understood. But do you get yourself? I've still, I mean, they're in the past couple years. I guess even like, you know, you don't have a relationship for a long time then you get a girlfriend your perspective changes and there have been things I've realized about myself in the past year or two

where it's just like well of course no one got me. I wasn't seeing how it was being perceived. You know like yeah they didn't get me but like I guess I didn't get like I of course that would annoy me or annoy someone else and so it's becoming aware of your expectations or just

accepting for me it's sometimes we want to you know we have to accept that people are going to appreciate certain things about us because there are strengths and then there are weaknesses and it'd be nice for people to appreciate those things about us too but like that might not be who we are right well Naz thanks two days in a row I mean double whammy

so I'm so stoked I hope people enjoy this new mediation it's good just to up front expectations well let us know what you think about it, first and foremost. We'll probably just do one per episode. We did two as a kickoff. Also, can I just say I'm not a licensed therapist

or in any way. You could have fooled us. Also, please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. We set that expectation with our audience. I also have not been in many long-term relationships. Therefore, I am the blind leading the blind, as Samantha Jones has said on Sex and the City. Yeah. Probably should have

said that before. Don't worry. That's who I am. My audience knows I'm not an expert. Okay. And unless we deem him as such, it's assumed we're not. Remind the people where they can find you. Yeah. So I'm at Naz Perez on Instagram, and I run a support group for people that are heartbroken

called Heartbroken Anonymous. And we run virtual meetings, in-person meetings in LA, virtual for people that live all around the world. And you can go to heartbrokenanonymous.com to join. And it's just a place you can come and share stories of heartbreak to remind yourself you're not alone. Amazing. to join and it's just a place you can come and share stories of heartbreak to remind yourself you're not alone amazing uh don't forget to send in your questions and your fights at asknickcastme.com cast with a k i hope you guys enjoyed this new segment we're going to play around with the kind of structure of the show maybe you guys fucking hate it i don't know uh but it's something i think

we want to do at the tail end of our Wednesdays episodes with our guests. So the format won't sound exactly like it did this episode, but some version of it. And either way, send in those questions for our SNCC episode. And if you are in a fight with a friend or a partner or a co-worker, I don't know if you can get your co-worker.

The idea is we want both of you. We need the mediation. Let's just stage a fight. Anyway, thanks for listening. That's it. I think that's it. Next week, Morgan Cohen. More recapping of The Batch.

Ask Nick on Monday. Thanks for listening, guys.