The Viall Files - E376 Bachelor Recap With Eilise Guilfoyle

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

Today we are joined by TikToker, Comedian, Actress, Writer, and most importantly, massive Bachelor Fan, Eilise Guilfoyle! She's here with all her notes on the Bachelor Nation drama to help us jump into the newest excitement from Clayton’s season. We start off by talking about how this episode is testing Clayton, where when emotionally exhausted, he has to break up a fight at the cocktail party. We also talk about the massive success that was Rachel’s one-on-one date, where we really felt the first flames of romance from this season, and how Clayton’s behavior places her in Final Four material. We also talk about how the drama where Shanae overheard the house roasting her was probably staged, and how having multiple cameras in an area where they typically never are may be a hint that something is fake. We also talk about the tactics the girls are using to get to the end, and how certain approaches may end up friendzoning yourself.  “You don’t picture your future with someone when you’re bungee jumping.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Relish: Go to http://www.HelloRelish.com/VIALL to receive 50% off today! Helix Sleep: Go to http://www.HelixSleep.com/VIALL for up to 200 dollars off and two free pillows. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @thegills_ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting bachelor recap edition of the vile files i'm your host nick joined by ali and amanda ladies how are you team is back we're back feels good studio reunited uh fantastic episode ahead for you uh with special guest elise gilfoyle yes hello welcome how is everyone so good good uh elise you come from us come from us that was actually a good start i only come from you guys you're you're well known in the uh wait tiktok community i guess not really to be honest but that is where i came from you were referred to me by people I trust and know. I love that.

As being wildly entertaining, hysterical, funny, and also a Bachelor fan. I am a Bachelor fan, yes. And so... Yeah, thanks for having me. I feel like I'm being punked. We decided to have you on. She has a bevy of notes. I have so many notes, guys. We always appreciate when our guests come in with notes. It's

not required, and I'm not trying to put pressure on future guests, but when you come in with a page, like, that's notes. These literally don't end. Like, there's actually six pages of notes. Because I was just writing, and this episode was kind of insane.

Chaotic. Yeah. So I just wanted to kind of get it all down. You know what I'm saying? Well, she has notes. Mm-hmm. So. I'm prepped. Get ready for some detailed breakdown.

Some tea. What should we, should we, is there things to discuss, Allie? Some hot goss, some tea. You know, we can do a little sprinkle. You know, we discussed do a little sprinkle. You know, we discussed Cassidy's little private

friend story that was very anti-Clayton saying F Clayton. She did release So wait, what do you mean that was a private

friend story? That was meant for just her close friends on Instagram. So how did the entire internet find out about it?

They screen recorded it. Just as you screen recorded a screen recording. Oh, that's so scary. Someone who she thinks is a close friend is not a close friend. And she said that in the post. She said she addresses the leaked videos and said they were never meant to be shared publicly

and that someone she viewed as a friend screen recorded them and sent them to like a gossip site. And then she said in the story, in those videos, I'm being intentionally overdramatic and satirical. The people who know me in real life get that, but I totally understand why people who've never met me would be like WTF. It's like me doing anything wrong.

Like I was overly satirical. I'm sorry about that. That was, do we believe? I also, I'm like, can people learn what satire is? Like,

I don't think people understand what satire is. I think they just use it as a catch-all excuse whenever they like make something off kilter. Like, I'm like, can people learn what satire is? Like, I don't think people understand what satire is. I think they just use it as a catch-all excuse whenever they like make something off kilter. Like, I was joking. I think I know what satire is, but I don't know if I could define it. Are you, could you enlighten the audience?

I think, okay. Okay. So this is my unofficial definition, but I think it is. Allie, quick Google. Yeah, Allie's like, I have the word perfect one. Let's see how far Amanda is from the I think satire is a form

of comedy that intentionally exaggerates specific elements for a comedic effect and commentary so I think it needs to be like it needs to have a specific point of view and the exaggeration needs to be like burning love did the bachelor it was a show it was a show called burning love and they

basically a bunch of comedians in LA did. And that's, right? That would be satire? Exactly. Because it's like,

yeah, it's like taking something of the form and then like deliberately heightening it or making a big deal out of it. So this would not be satire? Well,

I think it's like, what's your take, girly? Well, also, like, I saw the video. It was intense.

There was some rage behind those eyes. There might have been... No, there weren't tears, I don't think. I also wonder how you find out who the close friend is that betrayed you. Do you post another one and you're like, how do you find that out? That would be such...

Another good point. Someone I thought it was a friend. She sounds like she was speaking about someone specifically i would also there is no way to know there's close friends story but then there's just not posting it at all you took that risk by putting it up there and i still have to wonder like why you couldn't just text your close friends at that point and express your frustration i I think it was intentional. I think she is backtracking and making up.

I don't buy it. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. I think it's just kind of careless because also that's the same thing as like, if you have three close girlfriends that you could maybe tell that to, you might just like text them about it or send a voice memo. Voice memo? Come on.

That's like a huge tool we should be using that instead of our close friend also don't when you're like if it's whether it's satire or you're just putting a little i'm gonna do a bit you know i'm gonna do a little bit about my time on the bachelor you kind of you know you give like a look or something there's like a expression yeah when you're doing comedy of some kind yeah you make a joke usually also yeah drag she ended with fuck you clayton which is so satirical it's so silly so satirical like i don't understand that that portion if you knew me you would know that i was joking i'm'm literally telling jokes. I'm joking.

Yeah, I don't... My original theory still stands. I think she was hoping to low-key accuse Clayton of indirectly slut-shaming her by sending her home and keeping the girl who was engaged, Sally. It didn't land. And now she's backtracking after probably being, well, because this came out prior to her exit. So she got yelled at by Warner Brothers.

And then she, no one picked up on her like, no, but Clayton, like, he, like, he made me feel bad for having sex. He judged me. That's such a funny way to use slut shaming to be like, anytime someone makes me feel guilty for having sex or doing stuff I shouldn't be doing, I'm like slut shaming. I was slut shamed for cheating on my boyfriend. She didn't say slut shame. So to be clear, she did not say this, but it was, you're going to send me home for fucking a guy when you kept someone who was engaged. Like,

the implication is you're judging me just because I had sex. So she did not say that. It just sounded like she was kind of, you know, sometimes people put things

on the internet and you're kind of hoping people catch on and run with it and be like, that's, you know. You're right. He sucks.

And it didn't land. Maybe that was what she was referring to as satire. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, will she be back on Paradise? 100%. I hope so. I don't think.

It's the end, Sinead. I think, I don't know. I get the obvious. That's why I asked. Because the obvious is, oh, of course, she's... But it might be too... It just might be too much for them,

the show. It's like, she did this thing. She posted something she shouldn't have posted. She's almost too reckless. They're not going to be without people wanting to be on the beach and

willing to cause drama like i who would have thought we would have got it from piper and brandon you know what i'm saying like i think she probably would have gone on but now this thing happened and now i i don't know yeah i can see the franchises being like you know what we're we're done we don't want you to spoil any more shows we're good girl yeah yeah all right what else ellie well suzy you know a lot of people's front runners for Clayton's heart. What's up with Susie? Did update her followers, all of us who are interested in her, that she signed a lease in Virginia Beach. But we know from our previous hot goss that Clayton recently moved to Arizona.

So does that mean? Oh, no. No. Is she throwing us off? She says sneaky. She is so sneaky. Such satire. Did she say a year lease?

Did she specify the length of the lease? I want to see the contract. Post a photo. Post it. Cassidy would. That's a bit of information. Yeah. Who knows? We'll keep our eye on it it's certainly like boy if they are engaged sucks not a good sign she's like you know what i'm just

i'm gonna start a new life here and you can come if you want there and we'll just see how it goes we're focusing on hot goss at the moment but like after this episode like rachel wins obviously obviously oh my gosh she's the most stunning person i've ever seen she is the we'll just see how it goes we're focusing on hot goss at the moment but like after this episode like Rachel wins obviously obviously oh my gosh she's the most stunning person I've ever seen

she has the wife twinkle in her eyes she was created by a factory those two together there was a I think it was a solid episode for Clayton

he really he really you well Allie doesn't agree I mean I mean put Sinead up on a bar so hot fine and also he was mentally exhausted from from Elizabeth and Sinead arguing but I'm just saying

I thought he was very endearing and and very present with someone he truly likes, Rachel. And I think that's where you can really try to critique Clayton, the lover. How is he going to be? What type of partner he would be with someone he's truly honed in on? And clearly that's Rachel. And I thought, anyway, we'll get into that. But I thought it was a good episode. But yeah. so with the Susie signing a lease and after watching this episode Rachel Susie does not win but she's probably the next bachelorette yeah yeah yeah that'd be my saying she has the look and I think right now bachelor nation and by bachelor nation I mean like ABC Warner Brothers they're like we don't care what anyone says we're going back to our roots yeah yes we're to do how we used to do it.

Yeah. And she's very like Hannah Brown look cute. Yeah. She just has the look. Yeah. What else we got? You asked last week if Claire and Tatty Daddy were still together

because they'd been a little quiet. They are. Oh, good. Living their best lives. And Claire did like an instagram post that might be directed towards sir dale because the post said a safe man comes into your life and loves you correctly no sneaky stuff no half love no extra females no inconsistency just you and you only sis why do i feel like she is a p board of these quotes? Like she, you know, when you go,

you're like down bad after a breakup and you search on one of those like inspirational sites and then you just post that kind of stuff on your story. I'm, I'm, I'm unfortunately getting that vibe from this situation. Yeah. Do we think? Claire is very present in her feelings, which is a great quality sometimes. But do we think that means there was another woman involved dale was not i i think if if she doesn't end up with tatty daddy there will be some other pinterest quote about tatty daddy you know is it kind of my point she's present in her feelings so right now daddy daddy can do no wrong just like dale was truly the greatest she knew dale was amazing she knew

it was she could not be wrong yeah and yeah who knows what dale did or didn't do you know and then there was there was making up and breaking up and back and forth and take... Come on. Now he's with the model. We're all moving on. And Claire Stale came out with this movie. That means he must be acting

with... She's kind of playing into the common tropes of Bachelor Nation sometimes. But I'm glad she's still with the daddy daddy and uh we wish them all the best if i hope that she's not referring to dale because not a good

sign for her and tatty daddy you know kind of has that rebound energy yeah but we don't know well and that's similar to our episode last week when we were talking about, you know, paying attention to how people talk about their exes. Because if you break up, that's how they're going to talk about you. Read me the quote again. A safe man comes into your life and loves you correctly. No sneaky stuff. No half love. No extra females.

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Yeah. I think that's always something to remember too because she's just scrolling. Okay. So she liked it. Yeah. And it's like,

well, yeah. These were not Claire's words. Okay. But very different. Yeah. That's very different. Yeah.

Yeah. She could have been supporting a friend. Could. But very different. Yeah. That's very different. Yeah. Yeah. She could have been supporting a friend. Could have nothing to do with her. Amanda's not buying it. I just think that's funny that she would be

supporting a friend. Liking that. Being like, for you. She's been up and coming in the vague breakup content on Instagram. It's entirely possible.

It's like, you write any like just like basic sentence about a relationship and slap like sis or girl on the end and it will be like yes thank you. Thank you.

All right. Well what else. And then just a final kind of recap of another thing we talked about last week that Matt and Rachel were at Nima Colon and his mom

was there and people were thinking oh it's where they met his mom is there maybe engagement. We've not seen anything that is like engagement or ring or anything like that.

But they did do a Q&A. Rachel did on her Instagram. And someone asked a question about getting engaged. And she said that she would answer it at the end of like the Q&A. She never actually answered it. And then there was a question of,

I don't, I think someone asked Matt or both of them if they viewed each other as the one. I did see that. And Matt like confirmed that Rachel was the one. I was like watching those so closely. Because also there's a lot of like body language

where you're like, am I the one? And your boyfriend's like, why are you asking me that? And like these were, and he was like, so he's like, why are you even asking me that?

Of course. And I was like, okay. They seem very happy. And some tea that also comes with a little plug for our show is that Rachel Lindsay dropped her new book. She is going to be coming on the show to discuss it. That will be airing next week to go over everything. But some stuff about your season, Nicholas, that you might want to dive into.

Rachel will be coming on next week to discuss her book. What are, what are some things? Yeah, she had some comments about Vanessa. She had some comments about Raven. She said that Vanessa

accused Rachel of bullying her during your season. That's true. Because Rachel's relationship with you posed a threat to Vanessa. Apparently Rachel and Vanessa did have a conversation that was not aired regarding this. And Rachel wanted it to air because she thinks,

if it was, she said, if it was aired unedited, the audience would have seen that Rachel is not a bully, but the producers didn't want to air it and told her that they would quote unquote turn on her so it left stayed on the cutting room floor yeah and i remember it happening it was right it was right around the time where i was sending uh jasmine home and i remember them like they were i was just like what the fuck's going on yeah and i was just like because I I I remember I very specifically on mine and Vanessa's first date when we were flying and throwing up and kissing her right after the act so beautiful you know love is love um and I very much at that moment was like I'm

probably gonna pick this person and you know. And that was a very unique date because we were very much off mic. We weren't mic'd and there weren't cameras on us because we were on this plane. They had all these other rules that superseded some of the Bachelor filming rules. So we really were alone. So I could kind of whisper anything I wanted to her, you know, but, and I wanted to like use this time to,

you know, really like whatever I wanted to say. And I didn't want to tell her I was going to pick her because it was still early. And that could, that could get her even more worked up because how do I know I'm trusting this guy? How does he, how do I know he's not saying this to everyone else?

You can really fuck with someone's psyche by saying, oh, by the way, don't worry. It's like week three, but I'm going to pick you. And I just said, I know this is going to sound cryptic, but just trust me. And lay low. and lay low. Just lay low. Just don't be involved with anything. Just fly under the radar and trust me.

And I said that to her, like, I don't know how many times it was like my lay low. Yeah. She did not lay low and every time she was not lay low. And every time- Some of these gals on Clayton season could use that. Every time she was not laying low, it was always like, Vanessa, fuck, what are you doing? Fuck! In my head. And, yeah, so I, and, you know, her and Rachel just butted heads. And I remember them fighting in the, over off to the side. And

I don't, I wasn't there, so I can't confirm who would have looked good or who would have looked bad. I do know that I wanted Vanessa to be protected. So I do know that they were protecting her. My understanding, they were also protecting Rachel. I believe that Rachel believes that. And she very well might be right, right? But I've also talked to Vanessa and her point of view about that story. And I think Vanessa has since reached out to Rachel and apologized. Rachel did say Vanessa contacted her years later

and they spoke for over an hour. Yeah. So I didn't, I have no idea what that conversation was about, but I don't know if... Usually in those... When that happens and they air it, even unedited, people take sides. Yeah. And I just... It's also you have the winner and the future bachelorette.

So you don't want it 50-50. I think the show said, I think at the end of the day, neither of these people we want to ultimately look good are going to leave unscarred. There's going to be some shrapnel, if you will, or whatever. And we would rather not, so they didn't. But Rachel feels differently. And again, I didn't hear it,achel you know feels feels differently and i again i was i didn't hear

it but i do very much remember that fight yeah and uh and vanessa definitely said that well the only other thing i think we'll ask we'll ask uh rachel about it when she's here yeah and another comment that she made about your season specifically was her relationship with Raven. They've kind of like had a rocky, tumultuous relationship. She said that Raven initially, like at the beginning of the season, wrote down her first impressions of all the girls in the house and then read from that journal to everyone like weeks later further into the process and her like description of rachel was seems nice has black skin and rachel yeah that was also part of the book which is a very yeah and rachel had commented you know i wasn't trying to

jump on her too fast because she was from Arkansas. Like she understood potentially cultural differences. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly a weird statement. I do know that, well, they may not be friends now. And the problem is I've heard the reason why they're not friends

from both sides. Which is interesting. Secrets. And I do know that while they were filming, they were thick as thieves. That's what, obviously, this is just buzz in the community. I don't know where that saying comes from,

so I don't know the roots. But they were very close. They were the best. They were the closest from an outsider. And as Clayton's kind of mentioned, I think last week he tweeted about like, oh, I never knew Sinead was like this or whatever. And yes, The Bachelor is often kept in the dark, but you can observe things.

And the closest relationship I saw in the house was Rachel and Raven that I noticed as an outsider point of view. There are lots of friends and people, but those two were... And I think that's been some of the commentary going around of clearly they were even you know staying in touch after the show like that wasn't a quote-unquote breaking point and while that might have you know added to other tensions that popped up i think a lot of people are speculating there's got to be something else that happened because they stayed close yeah that has nothing

to do with that which isn't you know it's it's a weird thing to say, no doubt. But they became close friends after that, it sounds like. So, I don't know. We'll hear more from Rachel. We'll ask Rachel why it's in there. All right, let's get to the episode, yeah? Oh, Lord. All right, notes.

Okay, guys, so I'll just go ahead and list these off uh well we open up with uh well i yeah the it's like a rose ceremony it's a cocktail party clang comes in he is distraught he's stressed out because two women he has no interest in are fighting and he needs to get to the bottom of it. Poor guy. I mean, it's like a mini two-on-one without having a two-on-one. It's too early for a two-on-one to have a whole date be dedicated to these two,

but we're going to... You know what the best thing to do? And hey, we started doing the mediation. It was Clayton trying to do and hey we started doing the mediation maybe clayton it was it was clayton trying to do mediation but yet he just sat there in the middle of the well they just yelled at each other i was dying because he they're speaking about shrimp so much and he's so zoned out i thought he was going to be like, when Elizabeth was like, does this sound like bullying to you?

I thought he was going to be like, sorry, I missed like what's going on. He was, I don't even know if he was listening to them. But the poor guy, I mean, I would zone out too. Did you kind of imagine like a thought bubble of just all different types of ways to eat shrimp? Yeah. Like Clayton was just fantasizing about shrimp in general.

They could have used like the zoomed in shots of the shrimp later, just like in his head. It was so scary. If it was paradise, there would have been thought bubbles of Clayton thinking about shrimp while those two were arguing. Oh, it was such a, I felt so bad for Elizabeth. She's our bachelor. We can't do that.

Yeah, it was a tough situation for Elizabeth. Is there anything that you would have done differently or that like, do you have any insight on like how you would have tried to get out of that situation if you were her? No, I would have dealt with it so much worse than she did. Like she was so nice and I don't even, I kept being like, she's so stuck

because she was like, okay, Clayton. I also love whenever like they get picked up to go talk to him and it's about something serious. And he's like, can I talk to you guys? And they're always like, absolutely, absolutely. And then they go sit down. I'm like, I don't know what else she could have done. Because she was like, okay, this is what happened. She's talking so sweetly to him.

I was shocked with how it went down. The most confusing thing for me though was she was in the hot tub for all the shrimp things and she was saying she wasn't. See, I didn't know. I couldn't remember.

That was something I caught. Natalie did point that out when we were watching. I didn't remember but Natalie has an amazing memory and she's like, actually she was in the hot tub from what we saw.

I can see the back of her head. It's like clipped up. She was in the corner of the hot tub and Sinead brought the shrimp and the back of her head. It's like clipped up. She was in the corner of the hot tub. And Sinead brought the shrimp. And she kind of just like completely goes there and took a sip. None of that really matters. Because that's semantics.

But why would she say she's not in the hot tub? That is weird. It is weird. Because this is what we do on the show. We just throw out alternative theories. It's not that I don't think Elizabeth has handled it very well. And it's not that I don't feel bad that her entire stint on The Bachelor was cannibalized by this drama with Sinead. But it's the most airtime she was ever going to get because we do know now that Clayton had absolutely no interest in her.

Because if he did, she would have been on the show. And I think there is like, Sinead might be all these things. And whatever those things you want to say, maybe it's white wine. Maybe it's just, I don't know. Maybe it's wanting to be on TV. Maybe she's still completely self-aware.

Maybe it's just, maybe she's emotionally immature to be on the show. I don't know what it is. We're not, I'm not saying any of, I mean, it's great TV, but I'm not defending her behavior. But there is no doubt,

as we talked about last week, that she feels like she's an outsider and she is being, like, I don't think she's lying when she's saying you're ignoring me. Like the women are ignoring her. It's, we've talked about this every season. It's very high school.

It's very mean girls energy, mean boys when it's the bachelorette, whatever you want to call it. But like, it is that. And when you are on the outside of that clique, it sucks. And I believe, like Sinead 100% feels like she is being bullied. And what is bullying? And it's such a, we just literally talked about,

it's such a, with Vanessa and Rachel, is that you're in this high school atmosphere emotions are wildly like yeah heightened sleep is low sleep is low alcohol is high and and people have a way of kind of being catty and being dismissive and talking behind your back or talking through walls or whatever. And that would drive anyone nuts. And someone like Sinead who, maybe she's not as emotionally as mature

as other people in life. I don't know. Maybe she is drinking too much white wine and maybe she's handling it all poorly. But it's just just something does seem a little off with why you know the house you know what i'm saying and with elizabeth lying like not and i will i i respect shanae in the sense that she she was like you were in that fucking hot tub and i'm you know it's just like you could tell that Sinead was like,

I know you fucking were and you're lying. And I think Sinead is just holding on to any truth that she knows, because she knows she's just being ganged up on. And whether she deserves it or not, you can't argue that she isn't being ganged up on. Right? Yeah, I think it was just crazy too because then all the girls later,

like I obviously think Shanae is being a little crazy. I mean, she is being ganged up on, but then when you see her in the ITMs being like, I got it, I want, you know, they always show that and you're like, all right. Yeah, I just don't trust those. Yeah, true. i did see one too where she was like i feel like i'm winning and i'm thinking a producer could have asked her

like do you feel like you're losing or winning right now yeah or like during a group date where there's literally anything they could have been playing a game of paper rock scissors yeah you know so we don't really know also the uh she called me fat comment I rewound that three or four times. It was fake, not big. Fake. It was fake. It was fake. But it sounded like big.

So I think she heard big. Well, actually, I rewound it a bunch of times. Natalie heard fake. I heard fake. I heard fake first. And then I rewound it. And I honestly was like, I don't know, it was like spraying too much cologne or perfume

and you don't know what you're smelling. But it looked like her words didn't match. 100%. And it almost sounded like Big and looked like her words said fake. Yeah. I mean, her mouth said fake. Her mouth and the word didn't add up.

I heard fake. And what makes sense- I heard fake for sure. What makes sense is that, because Big doesn't even make sense. You're a big girl. Fake. But it would make sense

that Sinead said fake and Elizabeth either heard or chose to hear fat fat fake starts with an F and this is how the house goes you know what I'm saying

so Elizabeth I know we are all like team Elizabeth oh blah blah blah she's such a queen and how polished and whatever the fuck. But Sinead did not say fat. I also did feel bad later then because all the girls were amounting it to like shrimp conversation.

Like they were like, why are we fighting about shrimp? And Sinead was trying to say, all I'm saying was that she was in the hot tub. Like, can you guys at least acknowledge that? And then they were like, why is there all this hot tub talk? Oh my gosh. And would just walk away. And that would make me frustrated. Yeah.

Sinead was using the shrimp as a saying, listen, we were doing, we were hanging out. I was trying to be cool with you guys. And you guys were fucking ignoring me. I was trying to be nice. And you guys made me feel like an outsider. That's what she was trying to say. Do we think it's a little bit different though knowing that this behavior is contextualized with like shanae being someone who has like proven that when she feels like disrespected or like

there's conflict with people like she will handle that in an incredibly vocal and confrontational way and so i think it's a little bit different for people to be like mean girling from the start versus saying like yeah a conversation with this girl is kind of a liability on me yeah and so like how do how do they what are they supposed to do in terms of managing that like distance like not being nice enough that she's going to gleam on to them because remember that's what Elizabeth did at first was that she like was pleasant to Sinead and then Sinead thought they were friends and then freaked out when that behavior changed I, that's the atmosphere that they're in. And yeah, like, it's not like, oh, I'm not suggesting

there's this big conspiracy theory against Sinead and that Sinead is like this helpless innocent. Sinead gate. Yeah, you know, like, I'm not suggesting that. She's clearly not helped. Like, at best, she's not helping herself. Yeah. Right?

And at worst, she's definitely playing a very serious role and how things are going for her but i i don't think it's the atmosphere it's you know i i think you know the elizabeth's not being honest or misremembering the hot tub and then accusing shanae to the other women of saying she was fat when she didn't say that. Or maybe she wanted to hear, you know what I'm saying? Those are some red flags in the potentially team Shanae that it's not, she's not,

because like, doesn't Shanae, like, let's just be real. We don't know Sinead. We haven't met her. She looks fucking insane. What we're watching, she looks insane. Can we agree on that? She drinks mimosas at night. It's a TV show.

Very strange. That, problematic. Mimosas at night. Problematic. I noted that. So they do a psych tech, their tests. They're not even allowed to cast people who are clinically insane. She's coming across that way.

I don't think she is. So what is causing this to happen? You know what I'm saying? I think the health dynamic is like very scary because of course, I totally agree that like from the beginning, there's been mean girl behavior. So I'm like, okay, she's probably a little,

you know, she's wound up, whatever. But it was, it speaks volumes that when Elizabeth left and the girls kept talking about it and talking about her and Sinead was like, I don't want to talk about it anymore,

which again would be obviously frustrating on both sides. But I was like, can these girls stop talking about it? Because that kind of did show me a little bit that they're still kind of The group date. Continuing it.

They won the game and they decided to invest their entire time to like take shanae down how would i at that when shanae showed up and clayton is hoisting her on the bar i was in that moment i was kind of team shanae. I don't know I kept going back and forth because she is obviously being I mean because there are some ITMs where you're like okay no she's obviously a little off her rocker. She likes this fight in the moment but then it's like when I keep seeing the girls continue to talk about it they're like I think we need to like let him know. I'm like why don't we just drop it. Or you need to like tackle her on the football they were literally trying to

beat her up well that was a scary game I would be like and she was like oh I didn't know you're not supposed to tackle a girl with a ball this one

who was the girl I think that was Sierra Sierra was like so beautiful oh my gosh stunning that body glitter though also good tackler

and they were just like she's just it just it crossed the line of, fine, if Sinead's this kind of crazy liability, let's just let her

dig her own grave. Why are the women so invested in Sinead? I think because they're worried about themselves. I think the way that the women perceive this was that Elizabeth

didn't do anything and then was like, Sinead picked her. And so I think all of them are worried that they're going to be next. And so they're behaving in a way being like, we just need to get rid of Sinead because I don't want to be the next person who gets caught up in this drama and ignoring the way that like that mentality is only feeding the Sinead's perception of like, I'm being bullied, everyone's against me. And then therefore she's more likely to pick another person as a target.

I think from an outside perspective, we've seen the show 10 billion times. If you're a student of the show, you know that like speaking to him about another girl is always like friend zoning yourself, blah, blah, blah. But I think I can't imagine being in that environment. And so they might feel like threatened by her because they don't know what her time,

but we're watching it and we're like, she's not talking about you guys. But I would imagine being boxed in like that you might get stressed out having someone like Sinead there yeah and I mean they're good at making a show you know what I'm saying

it's a great experience you know for example the whole cocktail the producers aren't helping their bachelor because like Clayton comes in guys I was just sorry The producers aren't helping their bachelor. Because Clayton comes in, guys, I'm sorry.

I couldn't possibly handle participating in a cocktail party and allow myself in this very limited time to talk to women I'm interested in getting to know because these two other women, one of which I'm going to send home, are fighting and I'm mentally exhausted. Is that true? Because I feel like every bachelor and bachelorette is like, I am emotionally spent. I need to go home. But I'm like, are you? Well, they are. I mean, being the lead is, it's truly, it's psychological torture. It's really hard. And I don't doubt he's physically and emotionally tired. It is not because of those

two women. And I'm willing to bet that Clayton would have been more than happy to talk to Teddy and Rachel and some of these other women. But when you cancel things and you let the people in the house know that they're not going to get time and the people in the house will decide, will want to blame someone, even though there's no one to blame oh yeah yeah it was just a decision that was made outside of you know clayton and then they blame them and then they start fighting and then you're right amanda that you know it's beautiful that elizabeth goes home because you can then worry about you know, how much does this does Clayton like her? Like what's going on? I don't know.

I don't know anymore. He can't possibly and I will say when he gave Sinead the rose I was like okay, because I thought she was going home. I really was shocked. I thought either both of them would go home because he'd do like the dramas too much. I was like okay because I thought she was going home I really was shocked I thought either both of them would go home because he'd do like

the dramas too much I was really shocked that Sinead stayed and I was like for good TV I was like oh boy but when Sinead crashed the group date

he's at that point in the season where you get nervous night one you don't know what to do women are kissing you kiss them back you know you're one you don't know what to do women are kissing you kiss them back you know you're nervous you don't know anyone we're into like week four he he has his favorites

he has people he's quite frankly just not interested at all like there's there's i know these are all wonderful women and they're they're going to be a great partner to some lucky person whoever they want to love but like everyone's into someone and people are turned off by people and there are women in this house that clayton is just flat out not interested in i don't know who they are but it's just that's how it is every season you're just like i'm not you know just like like i'm sure mich Just like I'm sure Michelle wasn't remotely into Peter in the pizza. She was probably turned off by him. And Clayton seemed pretty into Sinead.

Having been in Clayton's position, I expected Clayton to look like trying to avoid kissing her. She comes in for a kiss and kind of like with Cassie, kind of kisses her on the head. Clayton to look like trying to avoid kissing her. You know, do like she comes in for a kiss and you know, kind of like with Cassie, like kind of kisses her on the head,

you know, or forehead or something like an awkward like, oh, thanks for coming. I get back to the women. But like, yeah, Clayton was

very present, hoisted her up on the bar, had a nice steamy little make out. And he didn't have to do that. He even like redacted kind of like his initial hesitation or apologized for it later

in their conversation he was like I'm sorry I was a bit surprised and then was like gung ho let's make out I think he's into Sinead more than I am he full on apologized he was like my mistake I was like what is happening yeah I am I the only one who thinks maybe he's...

I mean, clearly he's into her. He's physically attractive, if nothing else. But then he acted like a ghost came in when she did show up, which might have just been surprise. But I just can't figure it out because if any man reacted to seeing me like that, I would decease myself. I don't even understand how you could recover from that.

I don't know if Sinead is full of self-awareness god i wish i was more like like overly aware it's just right over the top of her uh yeah he's in he's at least physically which would physically attract her which would make sense why he was tweeting stuff about like oh i'm so surprised he it almost came across as defensive yeah because like otherwise you just be like yeah whatever i didn't i also think there's two explanations like one of them is being like oh she's being bullied i want to do everything i can to show a lot of affection to make sure that like i can give her as much confidence as possible and get her in a good headspace the other thing like, Clayton strikes me as the kind of guy who likes a woman who's like little wild, little sparky, like kind of wild card. Cause he's like, so like, I think he's very like calm and genuine and easy

going, but you can tell that like he has a side of him where he likes a little bit more like fire. Exactly. Yeah, maybe. I mean, whatever it is, I, she is not just there for the drama. That's my point, is that there are other women Clayton is less interested in than Sinead. And I was under the impression that Sinead and Clayton had no real chemistry. And crashing that group date seemed like, I don't think he's going to pick her.

And I'm not saying she's she's not like on Teddy or Rachel or- Sarah. Sarah or Susie's level. But he's into her. If Clayton ran into Sinead at a bar and- They'd be chatting. In the Midwest, they'd be going home together. And she would be driving.

Why would she be driving? I don't know. I just feel like she'd be the one being like, let's go. Yeah. She'd drive her car there. I'm like, I hope she's not. She beats cheats to the wind. While Clayton's whispering, he'll never dim her light.

Interesting phrase. You rolled your eyes. That made me nauseous. I laughed. But then I was just like, wait, isn't that, is that sweet? Maybe that's sweet. It is sweet. But I laughed when he said it.

The fact that my immediate reaction was nausea is more on me. It is a sweet line. It is, right? I felt a little bad because I laughed. I audibly laughed. And I'm like, well, maybe I'm being hard. Like, that is a sweet thing to do. It's a a sweet date and that date was like out of a storybook yeah other than showing up at a random person's backyard on horseback honestly those guys look like the impractical

jokers and I was so confused who they were I was so like I love a good barbecue and those ribs looked amazing stunning the bourbon glaze are we kidding ribs looked amazing. Stunning. The bourbon glaze. Are we kidding? It looked amazing. You can never have too much. That's definitely the type of date you have with someone you want to pick. Yeah, because it's just normal. It's normal. You're hanging out.

Strangers or not, they seem like friendly people. They probably had time talking to them before they were filming and get a little bit familiar with. And you're cooking out and you get to see someone in their element and and she's like making coleslaw making coleslaw and you can just you picture you picture your future with someone like you're bungee jumping yeah i also think it's important not as like a test that seems too negative but seeing someone interact with strangers or other people in like a social gathering is really important because you never want to feel like you have to be the liaison or

you have to constantly be next to them. So seeing someone be good on their own, social on their own, and you can operate as like two independent people, I think is great. That whole date, I was like, oh, this is like wife material date because she was chatting and that woman. I also, I just love, yeah, that woman's like, so like, how's it going with Clayton? I'm like, who are you?

And then he's like, I love being with friends and family, nothing like a Saturday afternoon. And I'm like, these are strangers. They seemed lovely. But she was like totally hitting it off with everyone too. And I think there's nothing worse than taking someone to a family gathering and being like, have to like shadow them

and they seemed great also the the embrace the bachelor jump whatever was different you know when you have your favorite it's really hard

to if Rachel is from night one, has been Clayton's favorite, and he was like, you know what, I also like Teddy, and Susie seems nice, but like,

Rachel. I've never met a girl like Rachel. Watching that embrace, I immediately felt like they haven't been showing all the moments between those two because i haven't really seen any moments between those two other than like her putting her her legs on yeah you know like whatever they've been saving it it seems like and because that was a an embrace that was an embrace like, I truly have missed you.

This has been, like Clayton, this has been hard. I could see myself in Clayton in that moment, like with Vanessa at the time, where it's just like, this has been hard. I'm talking to all these people I don't really know and don't really like. And some of them are really nice, but I'm not connecting with them. don't really like, and some of them are really nice, but I'm not connecting with them. And today's the day I get to feel like I can actually fall for someone because I want to fall for you. That's what that hug like felt like to me, where I was just like, because he really held on and she held on to him. And it was, it was kind of a sweet thing. And I was like, right before that date started, I saw that. I was like, oh, Rachel wins. Just seeing that.

I think the date was huge for her too because she's obviously, I mean, I'm glad that he asked, like, why are you still single? Because she literally looks like a princess and she has like an amazing job. And she seems so sweet. He prefaced it very odd. Only because it was like, why are you still single? What did you do wrong? Something wrong with you? Break down the trauma there for me.

Yeah. What's your attachment style? I feel like though she, it seemed like not had been on the fence about him, but obviously she has so much going for her. And I think that that date by the end of it, she really seemed like she was like super, I think that just locked it in,

which I mean, they had such good like quality time together, not like bungee jumping, which I think is... And the authenticity factor on the date was so high. Yeah, and I really liked the content.

You know, she's a pilot. Obviously, that is a historically male-dominated field. So you don't really hear a lot about women pilots. Certainly a lot more now these days, but it's historically

been very dominated by men. She told her story about her ex-boyfriend. Clayton handled it as well as anyone could, what you would expect. And that's why we all recognize that was our problem when we kind of laughed or felt cringed by I Won won't dim your light. But what a sweet thing to say to someone who felt that. I mean, I think it's just cool because she is someone that's obviously like beautiful. And she is so like, you know, has really just established her career as like a huge part of her life.

And I think that, I mean, I'm sure Clayton was kind of feeling that way too, where he's like, how are you, whatever. But she's so, I don't know, self-assured and confident in herself. I don't know. It's really, it's cool. Yeah. And also all of the little moments they were showing on the horseback ride,

like when he was like, is there anything you do that's not hot? They showed so many little lines that was like, this is wifey. He's obsessed with it. He's really into her. Yeah. It's cute because he really feels lucky that she's there. It was a really sweet date. And I love, I don't know, she seems very confident in herself

and the horseback riding into a random park. And he was like, this is an everyday Saturday. And I just, the whole thing, I don't know. I feel like she made him feel really comfortable too. My question to the group though, because my memory is failing me, have we seen Rachel in some of those really dramatic end of the season teasers though? When he says-

It doesn't matter. I feel like I've seen her in somewhere like tropical looking or Europe or something. I'm also pretty confident. And again, they could have thrown me off. But like in the clip where it seemed to be him revealing that he'd hooked up with two of them and said, I love you to all three of them, I'm pretty confident it was Rachel.

Good. I was also getting secondhand anxiety watching their perfect date and knowing that later on he's like, I have been intimate with all three of you or two of you or whatever. At least you're reading my mind. Literally, I was like, oh God, don't do it to this girl. Just why? Thank you. You're a pro. I was literally about was like, oh God, don't do it to this girl. Like, just why? Thank you. You're a pro.

I was literally about to say, this begs the question. So that was my thought, watching this date. Oh my God, he's obsessed with Rachel. It's clearly Rachel. It reminded me of how focused I was on Vanessa when I was filming my season. And then I just thought about the guy had sex with two people. And I'm just thinking,

who else are you going to be this invested in and this focused on? And not that there aren't other beautiful women that I'm sure Clayton would have the hots for and in the right circumstances hook up with and like. And I don't doubt all that. But yeah, if you're Rachel and you're watching this date and you're just like, wow, we had such an amazing connection there

and all these things you told me. And then all the things we didn't get to see that I'm sure happened, you know, off camera. And I bet there was a lot of downtime on that picnic date where they're just kind of hanging out. There was definitely producers probably came and said, let's just hang out and chill. And I bet, I guarantee you because Rachel is one of his front runners. That's they, they will find time to give you a little bit more time and,

you know, keep morale high, keep morale, you know, and it's just like, we got it. We got a great episode, good content.

You gave us a lot, just hang out. Like, don't tell her you're going to pick her. Don't like say any crazy shit, but just hang out, you know? And I bet they let him do that.

And Rachel is just going to be like, what the fuck? We're all of them too. I mean, we'll see how the other one-on-one dates go. But I don't know. We're a sex positive team here on this show. If you want to have sex, have sex with whoever you want. Do you? However.

I'm so scared i it's just where do we where do we like you give me sex positive but if you as as people who have been in relationships and and and monogamous relationships and and we like hey I want to date you. Can we not hook up with other people? And I get this as The Bachelor. Where do we draw the line between... And by line, I mean what we think personally we would be capable of handling with. Not right or wrong and condemning or whatever, but just try to put yourself in that world of opening up, connecting, feeling like, because I guarantee you,

Rachel, she is thinking, I am so far ahead of these women. Like there is no way he could be looking at someone else the way he's looking at me. He wouldn't say, I know I'm in the bachelor, whatever. Like,

I know like, Oh, he has to like date other girls, but like he, there's no way he's doing that. And then how much would you be okay with them hooking up with two people and then get engaged? Sex, you're in power, and when it's The Bachelorette, do you? Where do you draw the line between

what you are personally capable of accepting as hey i'm gonna i'm gonna do this thing i'm gonna get engaged to this essential stranger solely based off the connection i believe that we've built in these short period of time yeah and would any of you be able to overcome that? this way when you get down to the end that if you know it's me and if you've made that if you've made that abundantly clear to me which I'm sure if they have fantasy suites and he can tell her you know whatever well he doesn't tell her oh yeah it would be really I think it would be hard for me to come back from that because I'd be like really you had to yeah because without without ever specifically telling Vanessa I tried to in every other possible way, just be like... Like, trust me.

You know? And I didn't sleep with anyone else. Yeah. And it was a very stressful fantasy suite week, trying to navigate going to a fantasy suite with two other women who had an expectation of doing more. Yeah. who had an expectation of doing more and me trying to not do that and not doing it all while waking up the next morning with them still thinking I could pick them. An impossible thing. And honestly, one of the worst weeks of my life. But I did it because of how I was just like, I want to make this work with Vanessa. I don't know if he will,

but like, I know I'm going to pick her. So I can't, I'm not going to use this opportunity. You don't want to lose them. Yeah. I mean, that would be my biggest thing is like, especially if I was like the bachelorette. I don't know if you have your person, you don't want to lose them by doing something like that. But I don't know.

I mean, I feel like it's a thing that's happened a lot on the show where women are fine with that or, you know, are like, all right, this is the environment we're in. But I don't know I mean I feel like it's a thing that's happened a lot on the show where women are fine with that or you know we're like all right this is the environment we're in but I don't know how I mean I don't know they've ever been fine with it I mean it's all no one's been happy about it but um yeah I guess it just depends on like if the only way you're going to be happy is if you have to feel like they chose you very early and they kept you the whole time yeah like I think if you're someone who is genuinely, and I don't know how feasible this is, but is genuinely like, this is a competition. I get that there's a lot of different people here and it's going to take them a while to make their choice. Then there's a way of being like, okay, even if I'm not crazy about this, you did your due

diligence. Like you really, like you did for both people. You really saw like how far this could go. You're evaluating your connection and relationship on many different levels including on a sexual one and if you're I think if you make that person feel incredibly chosen after the fact and leave no doubt in their mind that's the only way that it's maybe okay but that's a lot of it it's it's it is there is a lot of ifs because well we also don't know like again the stuff he's saying to these people that we're not seeing. And the hard part, we've always seen it, right? The historian that you are. Yeah. I always knew.

Yeah. I always knew. Yeah. And the person you pick wants to know that they always knew. In fact, sometimes the lead will say that not to appease People Magazine, whoever the fuck. It's because they've had these really weird talks and they're like

listen I I always knew it was you I was the bachelor I was a bachelorette but I always knew and there's a lot of truth to that yeah in fact like

again I'm just keep going back like I kind of always knew it was Vanessa yeah there was things I had I still had to make out with people I still had to be the bachelor

I still formed connections with Rachel and Raven I still like grew to really care for. I still had to be the bachelor. I still formed connections with Rachel and Raven. I still grew to really care for them as people because that was, but I had my boundary. I was just like, there's things I have to do and there's things I don't have to do. And the things I don't have to do, I am not going to do. And that's the big question.

And so the hard part of being the lead is it's almost impossible to not step in it. It's almost impossible to not say something that the person you pick goes, wait, wait, that doesn't compute. What do you mean? If it was always me, then why did you fucking do that? And if, you know, so was it always me or did you not know until the last moment? Either way, I'm kind of pissed right now.

Yeah. And that's basically almost every conversation between the engagement and AFR. If they sleep with more than one person. Well, especially with Clayton, who's had a history of going so out of his way to make people feel special in the moment. He's going to get himself in trouble. That quality is really going to get you in trouble after the fact. And it's with the best of intentions and he's such an earnest guy.

Whoever Clayton picked is like, why the fuck did you post Sinead up on the bar like that? It's a good chance she's not friends with Sinead. Unless he picks Sinead. Which would be huge. The blonde I saw in the final three Sine

not Rachel Sine it's uh they're together right now I was thinking about that too and if we're thinking about it imagine what Rachel's thinking about

if he in fact picked her yeah I just think in general like it's gotta be a little bit haunting even if it's not to the extent that Clayton's doing it

of like saying I love you and having sex with multiple women like just watching him have a moment of like really genuine connection make out with someone who's not you it'd be tough doozy yeah

it's tough to do that would be hard for me well Rachel if you are listening and you did win congratulations now you really have it all I mean despite all that I really like those two together And you did win. Congratulations, girlfriend. Congratulations. Now you really have it all. I mean, despite all that, I really liked those two together.

And I really, I really, it made me like Clayton more. I really liked how he, he seemed like with someone he cares about, he will be a very caring and good partner. He also lit up when she said she wants to be a mom and have a family and all that stuff. And that's, I think he's like, ding, ding, ding, because he wants that a lot.

He also, I thought it was important to note that he coined himself the nickname Country Clay, which was upsetting, but we can move fast. I felt like as soon as he said that, he realized that maybe- I'm on camera.

I shouldn't have said that and what i want to give because we've been hard on clayton again we've already said that we we recognize it was on us but i think saying dimming your light while they were dancing there's things people say because it sounds nice and there's things you say because you really mean it. And in that moment, Clayton saying that in that moment felt like he really wanted her to know that all the stuff he said at dinner wasn't just him saying the right thing or being nice. That like, yeah, he's mic'd and yeah, he knows he's mic'd, but he whispered in an ear because even though we heard it, he wanted that to be between him and her. And to me, that felt very genuine. Yeah, and I mean, I joke about it because it sounds silly, but I think honestly, it does speak a lot about him

because if you would look at him and see how he's been on the season thus far, I know like I've given him a lot of shit for just being like, totally, you're killing it. Excited to attack the week. Love what I'm seeing out of you. All that stuff. And so I do think

this was a moment where you're like, oh no, he's capable of having that really sweet emotional side too. And as much as it did give me pause, it was a very sweet line.

We have to recognize the goodness. The good in the best. In Clayton. And that was, I thought, a good moment so then we get that football was the last date

yes yeah it was a great date I mean props to the Bachelor production I quite enjoyed the

intro montage it was very sweet I saw the reference back to old episodes and nostalgia to it the Bachelor Bowl

yeah some people got their like moment and like the history of the show it's really beautiful yeah episodes and nostalgia to it. The Bachelor Bowl. Some people got their moment and the history of the show. It's really beautiful. As a football fan, I liked the you know, you had Jesse Palmer hosting who's also calling

college football. I liked the cross-marketing. Doing quite well. Yeah, anyway. I do think I felt bad for I thought though I wanted I wanted Shanae to

like win the game I know that wasn't going to happen I was wondering did they use the whole field no and also I would imagine

even if you know the basics of football they must have been like given a run down because I feel like I you know watch football

understand it but like if I had to play I was worried about that i was like this is gonna be an absolute shit show and they're like actually tackling each other it was a mess and like the throwing i was like that'd be me i'd be like boo and you would like hit the ground it seemed like it was i mean but because it seemed like they almost like had an attempt at like having linemen and blocking i was like I wouldn't know my position like you know and they definitely stacked it like they they because when they play those games like you know like the volleyball day like they were never gonna we were we already knew they were not gonna send both teams home me

whatever but when they do do that and they don't know who's going to win but they will like they clearly they had an Olympian yeah it's like whoever you put

Marlena with it's like those are the people you want to see at the second she's so good so if you combine if you combine Marlena's sprinting

to the end zone and Sierra's hatred of Sine with her tackles dream team done Marlena could have outperformed most of the men sprinting to the end zone and Sierra's hatred of Sinead with her tackles. Dream team. Done. Marlena could have outperformed most of the men on the batch. I mean, she's an Olympian

track and field athlete. She came in with the right attitude too. Not like I was good in high school or college, which would probably still be very athletic. A little Olympian. You can tell too, like she was hyping them up in the right way too.

I love that she was like I'm an Olympian she was like I'm an Olympian like we're actually good to go I was like she was amazing yeah I don't know

I thought the tackling of Shanae was deliberate and cruel I was so scared of all of it but

also like they really like I mean Teddy had like a real, they had some really serious wounds. Also, kind of shitty

of the producers to do that. All these women would be wearing dresses and bathing suits the rest of the season. They have these giant raspberries.

In two weeks, Teddy's going to have this giant scab on her knee. Yeah, when Teddy showed that, was it on her knee? Yeah. It's like the worst place

to have it because you start bending your knee after it's scabbed and it's just breaking and it's going to be there for when... It was so scary. Yeah, it was like

bright red too. She put some heavy neosporin on that shit. I just thought it was funny that Sinead on the date approaches Clayton and is like,

I got injured or whatever and Teddy doesn't even comment about it, shows up to the cocktail party looking amazing with this giant thing on her knee and is like, oh got injured or whatever. And Teddy doesn't even comment about it. Shows up to the cocktail party looking amazing with this giant thing on her knee and is like, oh, that?

Yeah. Yeah. Teddy's great. She's poised and... Not at all manipulative. In that moment, she was being manipulative. Oh, boy.

Can I just say, justice for Jill. The architectural historian who has had no time with Clayton. Okay, she... Does she not look and give you the mannerisms of Catherine Lowe?

Yeah. The way she, like, talks and... Not really. What do you mean by justice for Jill? Also, I just thought, like, you know, if they had the architectural historian on one team and the Olympian on the other, you knew who was going home. Yeah, I just thought like, you know, if they had the architectural historian on one team

and the Olympian on the other, you knew who was going home. Yeah, but I bet Jill contributed a lot to the football game. We didn't see her because nobody cares about her arc on the show. But I think she is, when I say justice for Jill, I mean that I just think she's got personality. Yeah. I think there's something very cool about her and the way she talks and she's very like honest and direct. And I'm like, I want to hear your take on everything. And I think there's something very cool about her and the way she talks and she's very like honest and direct. And I'm like, I want to hear your take on everything. And I think you're a great hang and I want you to have time with Clayton.

I feel bad for it too. Cause yeah, they keep just showing her saying that she has no time and she hasn't. I don't even know if, she's probably had like one conversation with him on the first night. And then I guess that-

Oh, she probably truly has had no time. Like zero, cause the cocktail party gets canceled. She wasn't on a group date one week. But the fact that she is the most expressive about not getting the time is why she is still there. Yeah. Because other women are probably just like,

she doesn't like me. Yeah, she seems really cool. I just got Catherine Lowe vibes from her. I don't know why. What else we got in the notes? All right, let's see. I said, love the ladies on this date looking stunning. So much body diversity

um tackle football dead at the intro and then we had the group date portion the night portion and I just said Sierra looks hot like 16 times on here um and then Teddy broke down her trauma to Clayton about her past relationships or no her her family and her that which I thought was like really opening up to him. And he replied, you keep doing you. Yeah, I thought his response was really weird and abrupt. Yeah. It was like the opposite of how he talks to Rachel.

Yeah, I did note that. Yeah, I remember that being really weird. Because I was like, she opened up and was really I don't know I thought it was really interesting to hear like about her kind of being a people pleaser and how she had to like do that for her family and always be perfect and I was like man that's like yeah that's

she sounds like she's really like done some work on herself too to figure that out and he was like you keep doing you but again editing who knows but I was like oh god that's not the Rachel response. It's possible. We didn't see everything he said. I would like to think that had he said something charming,

sweet, nice, empathetic, any of the above, it would have made the edit. Right? Yeah. I don't think there's any. I think Teddy's days are numbered. I don't know. I think he likes her. I think Teddy's days are numbered. I don't, I don't know.

I think he likes her. Do you think she's going to go by the way of Abigail? First impression, Rose. Yeah, I do actually. I don't think it's going to be anytime soon, but I do think she's like,

I wouldn't be surprised if she got like sent home right before hometowns. Wow. I wonder, I feel like she's going to hometown. I tend to be wrong with all of my predictions is what I should say I know me too I'm always like

top three Sinead it's a it is entirely possible I'm basing that solely off of Clayton's response because it's a weird response

he seems like I mean when you are when you are in Clayton's position again you truly are just so... This is one of the harder stages of that role because he's physically exhausted because he's going to bed at 3, 4 in the morning, waking up at 7 or 8. He's not getting good sleep, let alone much sleep at all. alone much sleep at all. And he's starting to have feelings, worrying about what the women he likes thinks of him, all while still having group dates with 13 women and having 13 conversations.

And then dealing with this drama, which he's like, A, maybe not even interested in, B, maybe not even capable of mediating. I don't know. So he truly is tired. So it's really easy to kind of check out with people you're not like super, you just don't care as much. So it could have been a weak moment or maybe he's not caring about Teddy. Their connection definitely, from the beginning, I was like, oh my gosh, they are so connected and so I definitely think like that seems to have dimmed out a little bit the light there has dimmed out and but I do think that he also might just be I don't know trying to like learn how to respond to like a bunch of different women are probably also telling things that aren't being shown about their family history or whatever so I I will give him that like I feel like, I don't know if you're tired, sometimes you'd be like... Yeah, it's impossible. It was just like, he could be tired. Because up

into that moment, I just assumed, all right, first impression rose, you're still seeing glimpses of Teddy, right? And they're still showing conversations between Clayton and Teddy, and that is significant because it's still early. Teddy's going to, you assume that and Abigail never got hers. Like the, the winner sometimes often doesn't get,

and I'm not saying Teddy's going to win. I don't think she's going to win, but like it's pretty normal. Like the first, there's six, how many one-on-ones have there been? Susie. Susie.

Sarah. Rachel. Rachel. And we know Serene is getting one. Serene. Serene. Serene. All right. So, Teddy better get the next one or two

because after six, it's possible for someone to get a second one-on-one. Yeah. Oh, I forgot. They didn't get a one-on-one, Teddy and him. Teddy has not gotten a one-on-one. Oh, I thought they had

just maybe because the first night they connected. But you're still seeing because like if you go back Abigail do we I don't remember seeing a lot of Abigail moments

between Matt James and Abigail No They made a sign the first episode and then literally never did it It would have been so easy

to just show them doing the ear thing That was such a cute thing from Abigail I think a couple times but like so we're still seeing Teddy But not a lot Yeah but like so we're still seeing Teddy

but not a lot yeah but it's still early not a lot there's still there's not many women you're saying we haven't seen Rachel I mean like

until this episode I don't remember getting a lot of racial content no they do keep showing her in the morning without makeup

and again I'm like stunning yeah stunning such a flex so I still think Teddy's top three, but it's entirely possible she could fall flat. Yeah.

I don't, I don't know. I, for all the reasons I said, why she won't fall flat, I still think stand true is that she, she's not shy. She's clearly, she's here. She knows how to use her time wisely. Yeah.

And Clayton was very complimentary of her. I think, unfortunately for Clayton, it was just a really shitty, bad response. Probably him being exhausted and tired. Maybe not the most articulate guy. Yeah. And more to do with that rather than his waning interest in Teddy. rather than his waning interest in Teddy. Yeah. Oh, wait, guys, this was back, but I needed to say this because when Elizabeth went home and then Gabby, I love Gabby,

like her voice and her everything. I'm like obsessed with, she's like, this sucks. And she said, justice like wasn't served. It's hard when evil wins. And I was like, I am obsessed with you I was dying over that just needed to she gets big the way she talks reminds me of Anna Faris in house bunny yes like where she's just like kind of has this like fun raspy voice she has

such a sexy voice and she just seems to be like and then when she gets sad she gives me like childlike energy so that I'm confused because she still has like a raspy sexy voice she is like I'm obsessed with her when she said that I was like noted Gabby Gabby Gabby's the uh comic relief she is really like that girl yeah I mean I don't know evil might be slightly overstating Sinead. Evil one. Love it. Sounds like very Harry Potter. Love it.

Yeah. I need a little justice for Sinead a little bit. I just, you really rise. Nick loves Sinead. No, I just, no one else feels bad. I do a little bit, but I also, I can see both sides. But I do feel like, I don't know, with them talking about it when she was in the room, which I wanted to ask like how does that work because they obviously have a camera in her while she takes a nap actually yeah and we need to talk about that what did you get before I say what did

you think about that again it's confusing because there's like a camera in her room so I was like a little I'm like she's taking a nap but then they're being so loud, which was very bold. And again, I was like, okay, sucks that Elizabeth left because I really liked her. I didn't think she did anything wrong. But now it's kind of done. And I do feel bad that they're like, my biggest fear in life is people talking about me

behind my back. And these girls were like going off. Yeah. Is that kind of, I think that's a top fear for everyone. But I also, I don't know, like speaking in public and dying is up there, but being kidnapped.

Sure. Yeah. But like people talking behind your back. It's not fun. Real, real sucks. And, but once you,

I think I'm glad you brought it up. As we're on a podcast talking about people. What is this industry if not? There's an upfront expectation. Yeah. You're on the show. Once you realize, and I'm glad you said it, that we're watching Sinead napping.

And we're, there's two cameras in that room. We got two different angles. Yeah. So at that, then I'm immediately like, once you kind of have that self-awareness of like well how are we seeing this yeah oh oh well it's all it's all very staged it felt like and then it made me wonder like i'm then it's then then it was just like on what level is just like fully like we're and that's kind of a big question i've had of Shanae. She's clearly playing into this. She's not crazy, technically.

So she must know that grabbing the trophy and throwing it and crashing a party, she knows she's going to be a villain. She must know. And fine, she's choosing to be like, whatever. I'm going to be, this is going to be my arc knows she's going to be a villain, right? Like she must know. And fine, she's choosing to be like, whatever, I'm going to be, this is going to be my arc. I'm going for it. I'm leaning in. Yeah. And so then that, then I feel less bad, but it, it, it all seemed very sta, like, so how, because how do you do that? Right. I was wondering if they would ask the girls, like, what do you guys, same thing with like, when they they're all there in the morning sipping coffee and they're like talking about the

show and you're like all right and I kind of felt like with someone they're prompting these girls at the same time someone's on the other side of the room like filming they have girl chats they call them girl chats or guy chats so that's you know when you're sitting around doing nothing while Clayton's off dating either the group date or especially on the one-on-one dates when most of the house is just hanging out

while Clayton is having a one-on-one, that's when they have conversations. They call them girl chats or guy chats. And it's a lot of prompts of like, so what do you think they're doing? Do you think he's falling in love? Do you think she'll go home? All those things. And so certainly, you think they're doing? Do you think he's falling in love? Do you think she'll go home? All those things.

Yeah, yeah. And so certainly, yes, they were having a girl chat in this other room and knowing, they must've known that the walls were thin. And so, right? Because this whole thing was all set up. They had cameramen in Sinead's room.

They mustn't even have told Sinead. They're probably talking shit about you. I don't know. But like, they don't just have camera people in these rooms all the time. I was like, are they just filming her sleep? Like, good night. So like, I was trying to figure out how produced was this moment versus, because the, oh, Sinead taking it. What didn't happen is Sinead wasn't taking a nap and coincidentally heard these girls just talking about her through a wall.

Yeah. Like that wasn't like an organic moment. Clearly there was some production behind it. Yeah. But to how much, I don't know. Most likely, they had been talking shit before. She heard them, probably told the producer, and they probably were like,

well, we should, that's mean. Yeah. That sucks. We should catch them talking shit about you. I don't know. It would suck to be those girls too, if that was like prompted a little bit. I don't know. I mean. What those girls too if that was like prompted a little bit

I don't know I mean what do you mean like if they were like it's still kind of annoying that Sinead's here and Elizabeth isn't I just feel like

I mean would they do that would a producer be like I just feel like I don't know maybe she's not here for the right reasons and then have the girls just talking shit

sure so it's like I don't know I don't know what to think because there are plenty of times in that world where you know a producer might questions I don't know what to think because there are plenty of times in that world where you know a producer might be like

hey you know what do you think of so and so and hoping they talk shit and then you know cast members be like I don't know I don't have a problem with them

I think it's fine you know the whole thing is obviously very staged and so it's like okay what are they trying to do there they're talking shit about Sinead so then

maybe Sinead would go and tell Clayton they're still talking about me or whatever. So I was kind of like, all right, I don't really. These women, that's the thing. And this is where like, I don't blame producers because they clearly love talking shit about Sinead. They don't like her.

I don't think there's a lot of coercion going on. Like they were willing to cannibalize an entire date to focus on shanae like this is you know there's no proverbial gun to the head like they are willing participants and there's a reason why rachel teddy aren't in suzy aren't in on it because they're when when they're asked about shanae they're just probably you know, she's doing the best she can, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And they're not bothering. And it's the same, you know, and Sierra and some of the other women who are investing their time. Genevieve and her had some major, major beef.

I said last week she was about to snap. Well, because Genevieve was the one that got really heated. Yeah. Of whether it was about shrimp versus the hot tub and started yelling. She like stood up and started yelling. I said I want my shrimp! It was dying.

And I love how like when the girls are fighting, the other girls hold each other like they're like at a funeral or something. They're all like just watching and like holding each other's knees.

Wait, we forgot. This is another thing. You're welcome to disagree. But Elizabeth said before she was eliminated, these are some of my best friends in the world.

I feel like that'd be me though. I'd be like, I am literally obsessed with you guys. Start sobbing. I'm all hard and fast for friends. You lock me in a room with strangers. I get it. And yes, that happens.

But. It was like funny. And I mean, that's why like. She exaggerates. Hey, yeah. What if she's not though? What if she actually is very bonded?

I'm sure they all will be tight. She's known for two weeks. And a very intense experience. It's me. I understand. It's me. And I've done it twice. You made friends though?

I did. And I, and you do feel very close to them. You feel very, I'm not denying all that, but you're not. You're not so delusional that you go, these are some of my best friends in the world. She's like in a bathroom drunk. From like childhood. And you're like, okay, Elizabeth. I came on that show with some very close friends.

Yeah, her friends back home. Yeah. And if I, and that was fully like, they were still my close friends. People I called as soon as I got off the show and like people I was like, you know, when I was about to like, oh, I wonder if Annie is going to pick me.

I'm like, what are my friends going to say? You know, like I had all these friends and Elizabeth is like, no, these are some of my best friends. I mean, it's all over. They say over-exaggerated. I think it's just the, that whole environment.

I mean, even a totally different subject, but like when Clayton's told Rachel that he was, he goes, I know everything happens for a reason, which is, I would argue, one of the most popular sayings in the world. And she goes, she goes, like she looks at me and goes,

You too? I think that too. I literally have always said that. I was like, what is happening? That is such a statement we all say. I'm so confused. But like, I don't know. Everyone says these.

I don't, it must be the whatever water mimosas they're all sipping there. Cause that was so, I forgot that she said that though. That's so funny. I'm not allowed to say hyperbolic cause I said it a lot last season, but. I'm team Elizabeth. I feel like she might just need friends. She, yeah.

She does seem so nice. I think she's nice and lovely, but I don't know if she is as innocent as she wants you to believe. Okay, I think I have a very different take on this conflict because of the ADHD comment that Sinead made. I thought the way she handled that was so shitty. Oh, I forgot about that.

Elizabeth was very like, I think that was a moment where I saw Elizabeth show like a lot of emotional maturity in the face of like getting attacked for something that she's clearly had insecurity about. Sinead be like so disrespectful in the moment and then tell everyone about it after the fact and continue to sometimes mention it in ITMs.

I totally forgot about that. That's what, usually I think I'd be more like, yeah, both kinds. But I think that because of that, I just feel very definitively like. I mean, that can be true. And you're right. Absolutely.

That again, Sinead has, this is not like, she's doing a lot of wrong regardless nick wears like an i heart chanel shirt here today regardless of what we think of elizabeth or not you know whether she's can do no wrong or she has done wrong and that was insanely shitty but that doesn't excuse like it's like saying you're suggesting that that elizabeth could do no wrong that any response or anything she did as a result of Sinead doing that would be justified. And I don't think that's true.

Elizabeth did. I mean, I was like, man, she's handling it really well. I mean, and again, we're like going back to that. But like when she, when they had the screaming match that led to her walking away and she's like, I am a lady and said that. And like, I was like, honestly, she's dealing with this in a very polite way. Cause at a certain point,

you probably wouldn't know how it's going to get spun on you. And I feel like she is probably a student of the show. And she's like, yeah. And she's like, I, how did I get roped into this situation? And now I'm going to be a villain or I don't know. Yeah. Like, do I think she's pitching

a perfect game? Absolutely not. But she's getting, like, Sinead continually keeps pulling her back. Why does she lie about the hot tub? I think,

but I think that's Sinead's whole tactic is that instead of, like, actually focusing on the incredibly valid points all of them have to say against her, she's focusing on one tiny little,

and again, it's like bad strategy for Elizabeth. Like, you can't give her that one thing to shift focus away from but still it's like that's such a tiny thing among them like why are we focusing on that one point shanae has as opposed to the several others that are bs it's just we're going back to like the being ostracized in the house is a it's truly a traumatic feeling that I think very few people can relate to

and that's what's going on with Shanae and so I do offer her some grace when it comes to like her and then she's being she's getting bad advice from people making a show she's drinking alcohol and I'm not And that does not excuse

the shitty thing she said to Elizabeth about the ADHD. But I do offer some grace in the fact that I don't think that justifies any type of negative treatment towards her that might be snowballing this behavior. If either of you were in the house though, how would you... Let's say you're in the house, you you were in the house though, how would you, and like, let's say you're in the house, you're not in the crossfire. Like how would you behave towards Sinead at this stage? Oh, how is Teddy and Rachel

and Susie behaving towards Sinead? Probably just like nice, right? Like I feel like they're neutral. Neutral, staying out of it, rolling their eyes, being thankful. They're not a part of it. Yeah. You know.

I'm sure they're, I mean, they all seem so nice too. Like, especially those three girls. I feel like they're probably just being like cordial to her. But I mean, it does like when she said she's like asking them, I mean, not about the shrimp, but kind of about the shrimp when she was like offering it to them. I'm sure probably they, in that circumstance, would be like, yeah, thanks.

Like just normal, whatever. But I wonder, I mean, how the, in that circumstance, would be like, yeah, thanks. Like, just normal, whatever. But I wonder, I mean, how the rest of them actually, I wish I could have, like, been a fly on the wall actually in that conversation and see if people were like, because, I mean, who knows. That's, like, the worst kind of way of bullying is when, like, you do feel like no one's, like, talking to you. But I didn't get that vibe, so I don't know. I mean, I don't know how to define bullying but technically you could argue I think that it happens every season it's how the show is

made and maybe not your you know crazy bowling but there's a psychological bullying going on I would like to see Elizabeth like in paradise or something. And I think that if people, and I hope Sinead will be there as well. The demon in me. If I'm Elizabeth, I wouldn't go. I don't think it'll go well for her. I don't know.

She's so nice. She's a lady. I feel like she probably has the narrative though of like, I never even got a chance. And so I wonder if she would go in paradise to be like, I never even got a chance. And so I wonder if she would go on Paradise to be like, when I just get a chance, it will all be okay. That's why I don't think I'll go well for her. Because technically she's seen as the hero.

And most people are team Elizabeth. She could come on with aggressive energy, feeling like something was stolen from her, coming hot. I don't think it'll be bad. I don't think she's gonna be like some villain. I think it will, it could not. A little tarnish.

She's in a good spot in like the public eye right now, for sure. Yeah, yeah, she is. Elise, before we let you go, give me your final four. Four, okay. before we let you go give me your final four four okay Teddy

Susie Rachel Susie Teddy Rachel who is the other one though who's like right up there oh Sarah

because Sarah gives me a little Victoria Fuller energy where she's like really stunning so small so so she seems like she might be like 5'1

I don't know but I kind of see Victoria's her friend she's great but I think Sarah's a little bit more composed than Victoria well I mean like So she seems like she might be like 5'1". I don't know. But I kind of see- Victoria's her friend. She's great. But I think Sarah's a little bit more composed than Victoria. Well, I mean, like in the way of like,

I feel like back in like Victoria's Secret season, Victoria's Secret, Victoria's season, it's not like, or whoever was the, who was her guy? Peter. Peter. Their connection was not like how Rachel's was, you know, like it was more like back and forth and whatever.

I agree with Sarah. I think there's a clear top four, right? Do you think Sarah will be in top four? I mean, again, we don't know who's going to get the next. I mean. Serene's one-on-one could go very well. It could. I think I could see the Serene get the old send home.

I was thinking that because, well, she also, her name is so fit for her. When she talks, she's like, I'm excited for my one-on-one. I'm like, I want her to be like on the calm app for me. But I do kind of get the vibe that she, just because we haven't, it's like the classic setup of like we haven't really seen their connection and maybe there's going to be like bad music playing

during their date and then, I don't know. I could see it. Teddy swoops in, saves the day with another one-on-one. But I think that top four

for sure. I definitely know like Susie, Rachel. Teddy, I don't know. If Teddy doesn't get the next one-on-one, Amanda could be right.

Da-da-da-da-one, Amanda could be right. But I'm going to stick. I think that's my top four, too. Who would be other options? That's the thing. For some reason, I still think Genevieve. She could be a dark horse. That's what I'm saying.

She could be. They show her yelling in an elevator. That doesn't happen early on. True. That could have happened three weeks ago, and they just didn't air the context and when it happened. That super tease. Genevieve,

I feel like I would want to be my friend. She's like feisty. She's a bartender in LA. Bartender energy. She's like, what can I get you? Do we know what bar

she works at? I would love to know. Let's go find her. Little field trip. Let us know, Genevieve. Slide into the show's DMs Elise thanks so much for coming thank you guys for having me

I so appreciate it you'll have to come back please let my audience know where they can follow you enjoy some of your entertaining content oh I'm on TikTok

at thegills underscore and Instagram opposite at underscore thegills thegills basically everywhere is it a good follow? good follow guys Good follow guys. Please, please. The Nick Viall endorsement.

Got that stamp of approval. Huge. Thanks so much. Thanks guys. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening guys. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknick at castme.com.

Cast with a K. Make sure to tune in tomorrow for a fantastic episode with our guest, Alexandra Hunt, who is a professional woman running for Congress. Is it Congress? Mm-hmm.

In Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania. Used to be a stripper. Love that. Now she's running for Congress. And what a fascinating story. We don't talk politics. We're not going to talk about what she's running on but fascinating story

the stripper world is one we haven't really talked too much about but I think there's a lot of fascination behind it both with men and women and it seems to be a big part of her platform and I came across her story and had our team reach out and we're going to be talking with her

about her story we're going to do another mediation call, talk some pop culture. It'll be a lot of fun. Be sure to check it out. Until then, thanks for listening. Bye.