The Viall Files - E377 Going Deeper - Stripper Turned Politician, Alexandra Hunt

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Today we are back with another episode of Going Deeper with The Viall Files. We are joined by former stripper and now political candidate, Alexandra Hunt. On this episode we talk about breaking down the stereotypes of sex workers, why running a platform in support of sex workers is important, how the sex industry has massive amounts of stigma even though many enjoy the content it produces, and why many hide their past as a stripper. We also talk about using TikTok as a platform for marketing a campaign and how pushing sex work to the underground only makes things more dangerous. Then we welcome our mediation couple to help navigate a situation in which their partner has given an ultimatum to get engaged within four years of dating, or they would break up. We help figure out if this ultimatum is reasonable, why there’s hesitation, and how a ring may not be the best symbol of commitment. We end our episode playing a game where we guess if a famous quotation was said from a historical figure or someone from pop culture!  “You can’t prevent something from ending.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Manscaped: Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code VIALL at http://www.Manscaped.com The Zebra: Go to http://www.TheZebra.com/VIALL and get your free quote today! Wondery: Follow Even The Rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall Alexandra’s Socials: Instagram: alexandra hunt for congress https://www.instagram.com/alexandrahuntforcongress/?hl=en Twitter: ahunt4congress https://twitter.com/ahunt4congress TikTok: alexandrahuntforcongress https://www.tiktok.com/@alexandrahuntforcongress?lang=en Facebook: Alexandra Hunt for PA-03  https://www.facebook.com/AlexandraHuntForCongress Website:https://www.alexandramhunt.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Join Cupid and shoot your arrow with Manscaped this Valentine's Day. I'm telling you, ladies, it's amazing. I love my Manscaped. Your guy will too. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting and new episode of The Vile Files. What do we call it? Going Deeper or something like that? We call this... Going Deeper. Right? I don't know. People wanted to call it... It doesn't matter.

Going Deeper. Sure. It's our Wednesday show. We have a fantastic episode back with our mediation call. Our guest is Alexandra Hunt. If you don't know her, she is a woman running for Congress. Now, we don't talk about politics on the show, but Alexandra's story is, I think, fascinating and

informative. She is someone who is a former stripper. She is using that as part of her platform. She is running her campaign, acknowledging that she used to be a stripper. And so we have a conversation about that. One, like her choices in doing so, why she decided to do that. And then we get into a very thoughtful discussion about sex workers, the ignorance around that topic, the hypocrisy around that topic. And I thought it was a really interesting discussion. Certainly, we understand that there's a lot of opinions, I suppose, on this topic on both sides of the aisle. But on this show, we like to value people's rights and dignity and safety for whatever they choose to decide to be in. And if you're going to be a consumer of something, you should be, I don't know, understanding of the people who are giving you said content.

Absolutely. Either way, I think it's a fantastic conversation I had with Alexandra. We really appreciate her taking the time flying out here and sharing her story with us and having a conversation. I learned a lot. Hopefully, you guys did too. And if you've ever wondered about that world, hopefully you will be more informed. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send me your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K, for Ask Nick episodes or mediation. We want to thank, A, we want to thank the women who are

getting their male partners. So far, we've only had heterosexual callers. Certainly would love some diversity in that arena. Or even friends, co-workers. Friends, co-workers. Siblings. But for the heterosexual relationships, thank you, ladies, for getting your guys to call in. The guys always think they're going to get crucified.

Has yet to happen. In fact, sometimes it's almost like it seems like we're going team male counterpart. Again, it's mediation. We're just trying to get these people on the same page. And that's why we didn't want to name it any type of court or judge this because we're not trying to render a verdict and assign blame. We're just trying to render a verdict and assign blame. We're helping each other. On the ass stick, we'll tell you if you're dating a piece of shit and to break up with them.

That's a different episode. That's a different show. Anyway, sending your questions. We appreciate all the people who do that. Don't forget to subscribe, review us on if you're listening to us on Spotify, just go in right now. Give us five stars.

Without even thinking. Don't think, should I give him four? Does he really earn? Just give me five stars. Please. Give us five stars. Please. All right.

Next week, Rachel Lindsay is with us. Hopefully, if she confirms, you won't want to miss that. If you thought she spilled the tea in her book, just you wait. Next week. There you go. Nice plug. Alexandra, thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure to have you. For the people who don't know of you, as I mentioned in preview and episodes leading up to this, I think i discovered you on tiktok uh you are currently running for office congress yes and and your part of your platform is talking about you used to be a stripper yes and i was like what a fascinating story we talk a lot about dating and relationships on this podcast. We have people from all walks of life come on here.

We're a sex positive show that doesn't like, we kind of like people from all different backgrounds. I think there's a lot of stigmas and assumptions about people who have stripped or who strip and who would be no better to talk to than someone who's been in it and what an interesting story. I think it's fascinating that you are running on the fact that you used to be a stripper. And I'm curious about that message. And I think it's fascinating, certainly, and a lot to learn. So thank you for coming. Yep. Thanks for having me.

I would assume like back in the day, if you're running for, I know very little about politics and I, my assumption is, well, if you're going to run for office, you know, you do the background checks and you look for the good and the bad or whatever people perceive that to be. It's called opposition research. Okay. Opposition research. And there clearly was a decision in the part of you or your team to say, well, I've done this and I think this is a good thing and I want to speak to it. And what was that dialogue like? And I'd love to hear that thought process. The decision to be upfront about my past working history was twofold. And it

was one that I was nervous that somebody could see my name or hear that I was running for office and just come out of the woodwork and be like, oh, that actually looks like a stripper I used to know. And then all of a sudden just have it come in from the left field and have it pull apart our campaign. The other part of that decision was that I was in community with different sex workers and I was discussing planning on running for office and planning to launch. And they said to me, don't leave us behind if you're going to do this. And so I think that to fall silent on a community that is so marginalized is harmful. And so I chose to kind of, I'll fight back against the stigma and the shame that is associated with this part of my past and I'll lead with it so that I can advocate for a community that I'm a part of. That's great. And how has the initial response been? I mean, what was that like when you're like, hey, by the way, I used to be a stripper?

I was terrified. I was so scared. I was scared that I was going to lose my job. I was scared that I was going to lose friends and family. And I just didn't know what... I was scared that I was going to push my campaign totally off course. And I was pushed out of a job. I was coaching soccer at the time.

I had two jobs. I was coaching soccer and I was working in cancer research. And the parents were concerned about the influence that I would have over their daughters. And so I got pushed out of that job by the club. And that was really hurtful because I am very devoted to my teams and I love coaching soccer. I did have friends who could no longer look me in the eye and did not support that part of my past. There is stigma. We get ugly comments all the time. But then there's also a growing movement of people who are like, that's actually part of my past too.

And I've been scared to admit it because I've been scared of the consequences. But the fact that you're leading with it, you're blazing a trail and I'm prepared to support you so that when I want to be vocal about my past, I'll have the support there. So it's been a mixed review. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry you've gone through any of the negative stuff, but I imagine that the support must feel really empowering. And did you feel a sense of relief when it came out? And then to have people come forward and share their stories,

you must have made a lot of women feel a little safer maybe, or at least not alone. That's the feedback that I've gotten, is that I've been given a lot of trust for people to share their personal stories that they try to hide from corporate America because they're afraid of being pushed out of their job. That's pretty much the biggest fear. Relief, I don't know. It feels like a lot of responsibility.

And to make sure that I'm not glorifying sex work as, because people love to talk about sex. It's in our nature, but at the same time, there's complications to having that job and there's dangers to having that job. And so I want to try to keep the truth there while also standing strong and just saying, this is part of my past and this is part of who I am and that's it. Yeah. I can assume what some of those dangers might be, but could you share with us kind of like a little bit more insight into sex workers and what they have to deal with, things that are maybe overlooked or taken for granted in terms of the experience that people in your shoes have to go through? It's different for full service sex workers versus dancers or strippers or people in the

porn industry. It's different for each area. For full service sex workers, they're disappearing. They're being killed. The danger is very real and they're treated subhuman. There's been some measures taken that have pushed full service sex workers further into the street, which is more dangerous, pushed full-service sex workers further into the street, which is more dangerous, rather than online platforms that they can use to kind of vet who they want to meet up with. For strippers in clubs, you're more likely to be dealing with someone

who might stalk you. And management who doesn't step in and protect you from aggressive clients. And the same thing for the porn industry. I am sure there are many things you'd rather be doing than shopping for insurance. Well, I mean, obviously, who wouldn't think that? Everyone listening to this podcast is nodding their head. But car and home insurance prices are going up in 2022.

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to be not a lot of insight into that world or how it operates because it's almost like people just want to look the other way. It makes them uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like, OnlyFans has really risen in the past few years. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? I'm ignorant about like, I know it exists. I know people

are on it. I know some people, there's influencers on it who are just, it's a private thing for exclusive content and there's adult content on there. But from the adult content standpoint, are you an advocate for it? Because to me, it sounds like it would be a safer place. Because I get the impression people in power would take a large percentage of the earnings that the sex workers were making. And OnlyFans allows them to make a much higher percentage

of the content, to control almost their content a little bit more. Are you familiar with what happened with OnlyFans and their adult content? I remember recently they banned it for a period of time and then backtracked. Yeah. So the ban, that push came from banks. And banks are often fighting sex workers.

And it comes also from conflating sex trafficking with sex work and not understanding the difference between consent. So yeah, there were credit cards who were trying to push off the adult content of OnlyFans, and there was huge backlash. And the stocks plummeted, and people started to lose money. The people who, when you say people make a lot of money, it's not the workers, usually. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so they backtracked and maintained their platform.

It was because of the banks. Did not know that. I thought it was more like a PR thing of OnlyFans or something. That's what they argued. That's what they argued. But it changed. So what changed it back to them allowing it? The backlash. And the decline in the stocks.

And did the backlash come from more of the OnlyFans audience? The sex workers themselves? The sex workers themselves. Oh, they were pissed. I don't personally have an OnlyFans, but a lot of them just were like, alright, I'm going to pull out of this platform

now and find a sex worker run platform if OnlyFans is going to jerk us around like this and not advocate for us when it's time to. How long ago did you stop stripping? Okay. And how long ago was that? And what I'm curious about is, I would assume that decision to stop, what is that like? And is it hard to get out of if you want to get out of? And what are some of the pressures that people in sex work are facing, the fears, the dangers, all those things when they decide they want to do something else? And maybe they did it to

pay for college or pay for whatever it is. And then they get an opportunity, they don't want to do sex work anymore, and try something else. What is that stage like? So I did it while I was in college. And then when I started grad school, I thought about stripping again. But I was planning on applying to medical school. And so I was really scared that I would see doctors that I was going to try to interview with to go to their school at strip clubs. So I didn't pursue that. It is hard to step away from. You can make a lot of money.

And that can be a big pull to coming back and facing the dangers and the stigma. But I wanted to pursue medicine, and so I stepped away. What was that like when you stopped? Were there friends in the community who tried to bring you back in, or could you just stop and go? Did you feel like it kind of followed you along the whole way? My decision to stop was very abrupt and it was just like ripping off a Band-Aid. So if I had told management that I was planning on stopping

because I was really starting to gain a good client base and get well known in that area. They would have argued with it and probably cut some deals and tried to push cash in my direction. So I just ripped off the bandaid and I no-showed. And so if I go back, then there's probably like a $30,000 fine or something waiting for me if I want to go back to that club.

So that's just one of the consequences of working with management at a strip club. And how do you think that industry could become more power to the workers and have destigmatized sex work and decriminalize it and have just validate that this is work. And so these workers deserve a living wage. They deserve health care and protection from violent or aggressive customers. And that you don't have to do it all in the shadows. That's really the problem is that it's all in the shadows. Our audience, both sides of the aisle, conservative, liberal, and we'll get asked, a common question I get asked is like,

do you think porn is cheating? Do you think going to, my boyfriend went to a strip club or my husband, et cetera, et cetera, is that cheating? Have you ever had to deal with a spouse or a girlfriend or whatever? What do you say to those people who feel wronged by sex workers or things like that? Do you have a thought on that or is that something that you've had to deal with? I'm assuming on some level, what is that like? Because I can only imagine a listener being, but what about that time where my boyfriend did this? And if he didn't go to a strip club, we'd still be, I don't know, whatever the fuck. Well, I think that goes into how society likes to blame women for their problems like i'm not responsible

for who shows up at the club i'm not responsible for how a man decides to spend his money and i'm working so you know i'm doing my job you're just showing up doing your thing whoever shows up through the door right yeah so if if there is a spouse at home who that's not part of their relationship and their agreement that he can go to strip clubs, that's not my business. That's their relationship. So blame him. Makes a lot of sense. How many times when you were stripping did you recognize people in your community? Well, I was in college. So one time I saw frat boys from my college there and I had to I had to beg the DJ to not call my name to stage and to let me hide in the dressing room so that I wouldn't come face to face with people that I knew

and I'm assuming that your fear of bullying or harassment or- I was afraid of being kicked out of school. Yeah. When I launched this campaign, some of the first people who reached out were my former professors. And they were like, why didn't you tell us? We would have made sure that you were okay.

And I was just scared. What did you feel like when they said that to you? Like the people who said, I wish I would have known. Did you feel like, oh, I wish I could have told you? Like, I guess what I'm thinking. It moved me to tears. Yeah, I'm thinking like, God, it's nice that you heard that. But boy, if we could break down these stigma,

because to your point, like, listen, people are watching porn. They're going to strip clubs. I mean, you know, every bachelor party, you know, or whatever. And it's one of the largest industries out there. I don't care what you believe in or who you vote for or how devout you are, people are watching porn and they're just not talking about it or lying and hiding it. All these things are happening and yet we seem to be taking it out most on the people involved

as if they didn't create the content, then it wouldn't be consumed. People will always find a way. And just like anything else, if people are going to consume it, you'd rather do it in a safer place, in a safer arena, rather

than put it underground where bad things can happen and people can be in danger. And yeah, and then you could have told someone and had a support system, but out of fear, you didn't. And it's sad. Yeah, I'm okay. No, it's just like, I know you're okay, but for all the other people maybe who aren't feeling that

or who are currently in a position that you were in and that that's why it's it was important that i be vocal about my past yeah have you become passionate about fighting for the rights of sex workers to continue to uh have them get the production they deserve um all while people consume it yes absolutely um one of my biggest passions is fighting for criminal justice reform and sex workers are currently often considered criminals so that that is something that regardless of what happens with this race i'll be involved with from wondery evenery, Even the Rich pulls back the curtains on the lives of the rich and famous

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Was she a victim of Stockholm Syndrome? Well, you can find out on this episode of Even the Rich. Very fascinating stuff. Layers, layers, people. We like layers. So follow Even the Rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. What can people at home do if they want to support and if you've touched the nerve of someone listening?

They want to, if you've touched the nerve of someone listening, how can people who are consuming porn of any kind or sex work, and they look in the mirror and say, hey, if I'm going to do it, I can't be a hypocrite and judge the person performing. How can I support the rights of the people who are giving me the content that i i'm enjoying or watching and uh or fellow women who maybe maybe they don't watch porn but or a bit or they watch it with their partners you know a lot of a lot of couples do that how can they participate and uh advocate for the rights of the people whose rights have not been met? I mean, there's groups all over the country that they can give money to, that they can get involved with.

I think it ties into, for women, their economic independence and upward mobility. So making sure that we close the wage gap and supporting activists and future politicians who are running on such platforms. Do you think it's hard? I mean, how many politicians like yourself? You can stop right there.

None. Yeah. That'd be my guess, yeah. That's got to be the challenge, right? Because even I think the most progressive of politicians would still be afraid to touch that topic. Yes. So that's something that I have been really proud of

with candidates who are running this cycle is that because I'm running on such a sex worker positive platform that they've been talking more about sex work and including it more in their platform, but they just don't face the same stigma that I get for having participated in it. Yeah. I feel like this is one of those things where hopefully it doesn't take that much time but it's one of those things where do you feel is almost like a trailblazer you're a trailblazer in this yeah when is the election when are you that's a great question um so today there's supposed to be a deadline in the state of Pennsylvania deciding when

what the redistricting is going to look like but they're still fighting over it so it's likely that my primary is going to be pushed back but right now it's May 17th Did you guys have any questions? Yeah, I think it's really interesting the way you're using TikTok

because I think something that's so present I think right now in politics, among all people is just there's this sense of people who do participate in politics and it's very partisan and divisive. And then there's people who I think disengage. A lot of it has to do with the sense of like both sides are wrong. And with TikTok, it feels like you're really extending an arm to people who might be more disengaged from politics. And I'm curious how you've crafted that strategy in doing that. So I get asked by so many different groups who are trying to figure out TikTok and how to use it for activism. And I don't have a good answer. We're trying to figure it out too. And we are trying to draw in young people and draw in people who aren't typically our super voters who come out every time, but get them involved because we need them

involved. And we're really at a tipping point in this country of going one direction or another. And so we just need more voices and more people getting involved in voting and understanding the importance of it. We sent out this questionnaire to some of our guests, which you answered. And I really loved some of your answers. Do you remember what you wrote when we asked what's one area where women could be more empathetic towards men? There's a lot of toxic masculinity out in the world, but I believe it comes from a lack of framework and examples within our society of how to be healthfully masculine.

So I tend to blame the environment before I tear into any individual. I try to praise men who are feminists in my life so they can encourage other men to be more like them and follow their lead. So thank you, Nick, for having majority women on your show. Right? You're a feminist, right?

Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think feminism is more of like a mindset because because men can be feminists sure and um i i mean i understand that you believe that men and women are equal but it's more of a how do we get to that equality and and how do we move forward together and it's it's like a a rise by lifting others sort of mentality. And so when you have a platform, which you do, and you're having a majority of women on, you are growing your platform,

but you're also lifting others with you. And that's feminism. Great. I didn't think of it that way, but I like that definition. that uh definition i also because i feel like sometimes i always get like and well the three of us will debate this but whether it's politics or just society dating and relationships it feels more divisive to technology seems to be radicalizing radicalizing people and so whatever the is, it seems to be harder and harder to

connect with, with people. And it feels like it makes your job harder. Yeah. I mean, if you want to get into big tech and all the problems that they cause that I'm happy to talk about that. I have a digital, I'm worried about it. Yeah. Yeah, a digital platform. You should be worried about it because what they do is they push forward harmful rhetorics and they do it for clicks and views and you're going to be

more engaged with something that pisses you off. Negative is... You're going to get in that fight in the comments section or whatever

and that draws people in so it makes them money and there's no kind of like ethical constraint or responsibility and that draws people in. So it makes them money. And there's no kind of like ethical constraint or responsibility that they take for not pushing harm and harmful rhetorics on certain groups that already face a lot of that violence. Great. You down for some mediation?

I'm very interested to see how this goes. It's fun. How's it going, guys? We're good. All right. going, guys? We're good. Doing well. All right. What are you doing? How are you?

We're great. What are your names? I'm Rachel. I'm Corey. Hi, Corey. How old are you guys? 26. 29.

26, 29. You guys dating, married, living together? What's your relationship status? We are living together what's your relationship status we are living together we've been together for about three and a half years consistently we've been dating for three and a half years okay uh who wants to start off tell the story what's going on basically my the whole reason why i wanted to talk to you was because I thought you might have some good insight on whether my four-year rule for our relationship is like reasonable or if that's kind of like

too much of an ultimatum. So basically we dated when we were younger for when I first started college. Um, and we were on and off for several years. So we've been best friends for about seven or eight years. Um, so when I say what's the four year rule starting? Yeah. So now that we're dating consistently now and everything's been like just great, we're living living together we have a cat together um my four-year rule is if i don't have a rating and be proposed to by um our four-year mark that i feel like you know if you don't if you don't know by now if yeah then i'll then i then you move on yeah okay and where when did you make up the four-year rule when and where right wasn't it right when we started dating i don't know i remember it more so when we were talking about moving in together i wouldn't say you're like hey we're going on year three hey i think

maybe that's when i've like reminded you a little bit more yeah i remember it as like i i put that rule pretty early on just because we did date like beforehand and like we know everything there is to know about each other. And so, um, yeah, we dated, we dated when we were younger for starting out college. Um, we broke up for a few years and I mean,

we kept in contact and stuff like that, but then we started dating again three years ago. Okay. And we're coming up on year four, year four, year four, year four. Yeah.

In October. And how much are you guys fighting about this? Is this becoming more contentious? Are you feeling the pressure? Are you applying pressure? And in all seriousness, are you going to break up with him if he doesn't propose to you? Yeah. So, okay. them if he doesn't propose to you yeah so okay so our four years is october but our our lease

doesn't renew until like the april month so we're gonna renew our lease this april for another year and come like next april in 2023 it's more of like all right are we gonna renew a lease or get another place together and to me that's kind of like a good conversation starting point of like, we, we shouldn't renew a lease together. Corey, what, what are your thoughts? What are you, are you right? Are you in a place where you want to propose or, or what are your thoughts on, on marriage and engagement? Um, so I think her, I think her ultimatum is actually reasonable. I don't,

I don't think it's right for people to make people wait forever. I just, I don't know. I've been through a lot of things in the past few years that I've just,

it's the cliche. I've seen everybody that I know be divorced. You know what I'm saying? And I've seen a lot of people that I grew up that were aunts, uncles, just adults that were around. Now they're in their late 40s, early 50s.

Their kids are out of high school. Now they're starting the dating world again. And I want to say, I know the percentage is like 52% of marriages end in divorce. But at least in my life, I see like at least 75 to 80. And I don't know, that just freaks me out. So I have that in my mind. And I just don't, I don't feel like I'm not established or successful enough right now to start a family. Cause I don't want to bring kids into a world that have to struggle for things. We both kind of grew up poor and I don't want my kids to like need for the same things I did. Um, I kind of want them to have like

a good headstart when they're, when they're born. So. So you have a four-year rule. Do you have another rule for children after marriage? No. Um, for me, like I, I used to be a person that like never wanted kids never wanted marriage it was always like just not for me and um long story short I ended up living with like my pastor and his wife and their family and I've I saw a dynamic that became obtainable to me. So in that time I grew this strong desire for a family, for a marriage, just to start off with really to have my, my person really. And, um, I knew that was something that, you know, is for me and that like I can do. And so that's been a strong desire.

So I don't necessarily have a rule as in like children and I think that's I don't even think that would be like an issue if like how many years until we have children after we're married because like we both kind of want to be parents like soonish it's just a matter of like are we going to be parents in or outside of a marriage or at all. Sounds like Corey is more focused on, hey, things can change. He's being more pragmatic about the situation. You're being a little bit more optimistic about the situation.

I don't think either is wrong or right, but I think it just kind of speaks to conversations you guys might want to have about um conversations you'll need to to keep having right just because like the fact that you went from not wanting to seeing yourself to have kids to now seeing that is this kind of recognition that things can change right and relationships often don't work out because we assume things will never change and they change. And then we don't want to face the reality of that change.

And just recognizing that I think sometimes can go a long way with a couple. Because, I mean, your four-year rule is kind of silly. I think so. I mean, is that okay for me to say to you? Do you recognize it's a little silly? Yeah, that's your opinion. That's fine. To go back to Corey talking about wanting to be in a place of economic stability so that he can provide for his family. Do you see how you have a timeline of four years and that is your marker, but for Corey's, his marker is some sort of economic marker that he wants to achieve before he proposes and starts a family? And do

you think that you could find a way to the both of you get to that economic marker so that he can feel comfortable having that stability for the two of you? Because it's, I mean, you're both saying you have a good relationship and you're happy, right? Yes. Yeah. So it sounds like you want to be together and it's just you have different ways of measuring taking that next step. Yours is time, his is economic stability. And fear of the unknown a little bit too, right? Yeah.

And also what I mean by silly too is it seems like you guys really care about each other. It seems like you guys want to make this work. That seems to be something you guys agree on. That's great. I'd hate for you to break up with him because he's feeling angst about the future whether it's his economic situation or there's just like a fear of like what happens when things change how are we going to still feel about each other and you're just like no four years you know and do you want him to propose to you if he felt angst about the future just because he was afraid to lose you yeah absolutely not um

i guess my my like logic or reasoning is more so like how do you how do we measure like when you feel ready, like how you measure that economic status or whatever it is or, and like how, how long is too long? Like I, I, I grew up in a household where my mom didn't, her boyfriend didn't propose to her for eight years. And I saw like what that did to her and how upsetting that was like emotionally for her. And, um, I, I kind of just like have a fear that I'm just always going to be the one waiting.

Um, sure. That makes sense. But also make, you know, also you can understand why you're, you're a little more sensitive to that topic than someone else because you saw your mom suffer a little bit for it or affected her mental health and she was sad about that. But you just want to be careful not to bring that into your current relationship.

Well, I understand that you've been dating for a period of time. And you were best friends first so it it sounds like you have a really solid foundation oh i was i think i come from the opposite side because like she said her mom had to wait but my mom was like a teen pregnancy and then she felt like she had to get married and then that marriage ended in complete disaster um same thing happened to my sister my dad uh my stepfather had an early marriage too where he got married very early and then they were divorced like a year later so like i see a lot of people who get married very early and then i see things fizzle out and tragically like yeah to where

the point where you're fighting over kids or you're not letting people see um kids on the weekend and stuff like that and i don't know like I know four years is a long time, but at the same time, like even my family's like, Hey, you got to marry her. And I'm like, guys, take it easy. You're all divorced. Well, it kind of just depends on what you guys did in those four years. And I don't know, you know, like people could just be like, I don't know, maybe you guys just like traveled and never talked about the future. Or maybe you guys, you know, don't, it all depends. Rachel, what is like, what matters more to you? And I'm curious, is it the ceremony or what marriage means? Or is

it just having the stability of a commitment? I like the stability of a commitment, like that affirmation that like, I'm always going to have him to turn to really. And like, I know I have that now, but yeah, I mean, it doesn't help when you have outside pressures. I mean, every time we go to any family member's house or event, it's always one of the main topic of questions for the two of us. And I don't think that helps my like own concerns and worries either. Have you guys talked about, forgetting about like marriage, have you guys talked about your beliefs on a future together, raising kids,

handling money, roles and responsibilities, who would do what, when, how do you feel about certain things? Like how much do you guys talk about that type of stuff as it relates to your future? I would say a fair, I mean, things like how much you guys talk about that type of stuff as it relates to your future um i would say a fair i mean yeah like there's always like situational conversations that get brought up and

we're like what would you do in this and what do you think about this or this like style of things um that's i would say we both have an understanding of how each one of us would function in all these many different roles um so i mean i for myself i don't know if you disagree but like i feel like i have a very good understanding of like how cory would um act within different situations different roles roles, different environments, and it would be vice versa. Yeah, I would say so. The thing that worries me right now, I've been working seven days a week for about three years now. And as much as I want to have like a kid in a family, I know that I'm, she needs a lot of attention,

not like, not trying to make that like a slur or anything, but like she, she likes company. So like she gets frustrated when I'm not around all the time and I'm, that worries me. And also like, I want to be a dad that's present. I don't want to be one of those dads that's always gone because I'm at work or something. You know, I want to be a coach for my kids if they play sports, or I want to come home and help them with their homework and stuff. And right now, that's just not feasible. And I just don't want to be a dad that's not present because I'm trying to pay the bills. It seems really fair. Yeah.

So hearing him say that, Rachel, what's that make you think and feel an agreement really it's it's always a constant of like i understand where you're coming from and and it's tricky because we like this isn't really like a fighting manner like of a topic it's mostly just like he understands where i'm coming from i understand where he's coming from but like where is that like middle connect and like when is that i mean you're legitimately considering not re-upping your lease without a proposal sounds considering it sounds kind of serious for it it sounds serious because everything else seems like quite lovely between you two like seem like i have i mean we just started talking to you cory do you want to get married someday yeah um i do it uh i i'm kind of a little different now

because when i was younger i was like i want to be married by 25 i can't wait to have kids and stuff like that and i do want to be married just, I'm very cautious and hesitant about it just because I've just seen so many people get divorced. I saw it growing up and I've seen it even more frequently in recent years. So I think as much as I should put myself in other people's shoes when their situations come to like relationships, it still scares me because I know that, you know, people change. I'm a totally different person than I was five years ago. And I don't think anybody who's divorced saw it coming. You know, I don't think anybody was like, dang, I can't believe she ended up being a totally

different person after 10 years. And I think that's only natural. So that's something that stays in my mind for sure. What's wrong with divorce? I feel like it's a failure. I don't want to say people who are divorced have failed or anything, but I feel like when you get married and you start a family, if you have to end up breaking that family up, I feel like in some way that's a failure. Just from personal experience, like I said, I don't want to call anybody a failure or anything like that, but I don't want to.

It's something you want to do once. Yeah, I definitely don't want to be like a part-time father or anything. I only get to see my kids half-time. Do you think breakups are a failure? Do you see them that way? Yeah, I tend to look at them that way. do you see them that way yeah i tend to look at them that way instead of just people growing in different means and in different ways and they grow apart yeah i mean i see that like rationally too but then there's been other breakups where like dang i could have done this i could have been i could have been more sensitive towards that or something that could say that in your relationship though yeah right i mean you can always we can always do better yeah but yeah i think the thing with dating and relations most people view like a failure because it's an loss of their time

their investment they see it as a waste of time but they learned oh i i agree with you on it shouldn't be thought as a failure, but I think we personally feel that way in the moment. Have you guys considered couples therapy to talk about this topic? She does. And why not you? I just haven't, I don't know. I haven't thought about it.

Now, I'm curious, when you say, Rachel, when you brought it up, and I think that's great, are you doing it because, and I don't, try to be honest, are you doing it because you're hoping that therapists will convince him to get engaged? No. Because you think, okay, you're just trying to get on the same page. Okay, good. I love him so much that that's why I don't want this to be looked at as an ultimatum, even though it is when you get down to the definition. But I don't ever want to pressure him into a situation, but I also want to make sure I'm taking care of myself at the same time. But you could get engaged, get married, and he could wake up one day and be gone.

You can't prevent something from ending. And the only thing that a marriage will do is certainly make it harder for you guys to break up, and it will require lawyers, and it'll be messier and all those things. But you can't prevent heartbreak from happening if it's going to happen i guess it's also for me like like i was saying earlier it's it's just that affirmation that like you're you're going as you said just said like he's not going to be there forever or something can happen but like it's an affirmation that like you're here you're going to be here for like my life is there something cory could do and let's say is this like listen i'm just not in a position to get done on one knee i just

i i don't i can't get the ring i want to get you or whatever it is. I just, I'm still not sure. Whatever it is, I just, I'm not there. Is there something Corey could do to still commit to you in terms of like his words of affirmation of like, you're the woman I want to marry. I, you know, if I don't, I don't want to put your words in your mouth, Corey, but I'm assuming you guys have talked about this stuff. Like, is there anything he could say to you

about that this is the path he's on but he just wants to get into a place that doesn't feel like think about like these ultimatums that you don't want to be ultimatums like once they're said you can't like unsay it you know so if he gets engaged to you before this lease is up i don't see a world where he can't feel like he did it partly because, or even you, that it was part of your ultimatum. Yeah. It's not being born out of a place of love and commitment. It's being born out of a sense of urgency and fear of losing you.

And I do feel like that will be something that you will have to deal with in the future. Because once things settle and there might be a period of bliss and a re like enlightenment of a honeymoon phase because you're engaged and excited and curry is like yeah this is great but at some point is if things go bad and you have a hard couple months or years or you have a struggle maybe cory loses his job for a period of time something happens i don't know there's a recession and he feels this pressure or angst that energy might be directed towards you as call it resentment for feeling like it's not something he really wanted to do or etc etc i

would just be be careful about that and i would I know. And that's a good point. I definitely wouldn't want that. But I think that we're both saying that Corey has some concerns that need to be heard, but you're also expressing needs that you need more affirmation. And maybe it's not words, but what would make you feel more secure in your relationship that this is, that he wants? I mean, Corey Corey you want this for the long term right now yeah what so what what what do you need besides a proposal no yeah I guess just that understanding that affirmation is like whenever for the longest time whenever marriage did get brought up it was like he didn't

know if it was with me so for the longest time i'm like forget that you just like want to be married but like could you see that with me like this was at like a two-year mark and i was that was like the scary thing for a while was just like you're saying that you possibly want this one day, but you're not even sure if it's like with me. He said that to you? Yeah. Okay. But is his tone different now? Like now he knows?

Has that changed? Or is it still unclear? Yeah, no. It's changed. It's clear. Well, there's two different ways to look at that, Rachel. You can be upset that at one point two years ago, he wasn't sure. Yeah. And even though you wanted him to be but he is sure which shows progress it shows that he can be at a place at

one point and it shows that he can grow just like he can one day be ready for an engagement yeah you know and Corey seems thoughtful like he sounds like well-intentioned you both seem to have justifiable reasons why you know part of your past or things you guys experienced are like triggering these feelings so it doesn't sound like someone who can't get to where you want him to be because he used to be at a place where you didn't want him to be and then he got to where he wanted to be which is knowing that it he does want it to be you and that's a positive sign no that's a good point and i don't think when you like word it like that i don't know if i've ever really given him that credit from like not thinking one way and then developing that so yeah yeah, I mean, that's completely right. Like that could be a developed.

That's kind of the whole point of dating and getting to know each other. I mean, I said this all the time. You listen to my show. People like will start dating. They'll fall in love and they'll make all these promises and have this honeymoon phase.

And then they will base their entire relationship off of the crazy shit they said to one another in their first few months and apply all this pressure to the relationship as opposed to saying, I really like you. I care about you. I'm excited. Let's see where it goes. I'm not there yet.

I hope I can get there. And sometimes we don't like to hear, I'm not there yet. And we'll see that as a negative rather than like a thoughtful response to like, you know, we talk so much about like love bombing and things like that, where people are saying things that they don't really mean. And,

and you know, you, to me, it seems like the words of, I see this now would feel a lot more sincere than someone who's been like, I've always known, you know, and I would pull up more trust and, and,

and those words that came from Corey than a guy who every time you asked, you know, it's me, do you, it's me? And he was just like, yeah, no, totally because he had the guts to one time tell you it wasn't, or he wasn't sure. And that probably was hard for you to hear. And sometimes establishing trust in a, in a, in a relationship is having the guts to say to your partner things that you know might upset them and they don't want to hear but you say it because you want to be truthful so that you can work through those things and

that sounds seems to like a good sign to me yeah yeah and he's he's always been truthful and very yeah i'm not much of a love bomber i'm not suggesting you are it's quite the opposite yeah yeah i think what we're seeing from rachel is that she needs a little more affirmation from you like she she can give you from her you need more patience as you grow into this expectation that she has kind of pushed upon you. And she needs from you more affirmation that you are doing that growing and at least being vulnerable about that growth and, and that you want that future with her.

Is it a very silly manner? Rachel, you'd like to see Corey talk a little bit more about the future or bring this up or get a little more forward thinking about some of the conversations you have? Yeah, no. And, and I think even taking it a little step further because we, we dated when we, I was younger. I mean, he broke up with me very abruptly out of nowhere after a year. And it was very out of left field and unexpected. And I guess I try not to bring that fear

from when we pasted into the relationship. But I mean, that is an underlying feeling too. Here are my final thoughts. And I like Alexander can add to anything I'm missing, but I feel like there's a lot of good here. You guys are communicating with the best part from what I'm hearing is there's a lot of reasons from what you guys have shared with us to like validate what you're both are feeling, right?

Like you've had experiences, Corey, from your past that make you skeptical, resistant of like trusting love in general. You've experienced Rachel, your mom, have heartbreak over like a guy who just kind of strung her along. Your own specific relationship, you have a little bit of trauma from dating as like young adults. And yeah, you try to recognize that you were young, but like, fuck, you can't forget that one day he just broke up with you and broke your heart. These are all things I think you guys can work through. I think couples therapy could go a long way to helping you identify these things, both as a couple and even as individuals. It sounds like maybe you could work through whatever

those feelings you develop through experiencing what you experienced with your mom and you, vice versa, Corey. And these are all things that, honestly, before people get married, I think it's really healthy to try to address these insecurities and trauma and things from our past and things we picked up from our parents. Because eventually, you're going to deal with it in your relationship somehow, either directly or indirectly. And it would seem a lot smarter to be present, talk to someone that can really help guide you through those things, give you some tools to recognize these things. Because when they do come up, you want to be able to name it, recognize it, and then call it what it is and deal with it rather than not recognize it and then project some sort of insecurity onto the other person, call it something else, fight, not listen or

hear each other. And in the short term, Corey, try to be a little bit more attentive, less goofy, and just try to give her a little bit more. You know what she wants, right? Don't say things you don't mean, but talk a little bit more about the future. And maybe like, I don't know, maybe you're a little hesitant to like say anything because I don't know if you're afraid of it used against you in the court of law, so to speak. Well, if I talk about the future, she's going to like, she's going to hold me to it, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So maybe just recognize that, you know, always make it easier for your partner to try to open up if they have a hard time opening up because sometimes I think we're afraid to do

that because we're afraid of how it's going to be received and them using it against us in the future. But I don't know, I would just recommend couples therapy more than anything because it seems like you have a lot going on there. A lot of things that can be- My therapist asked if I would ever bring him in and i and getting him to sit here and talk to you today was like pulling tooth and nails so well good for you for doing that yeah yeah he definitely setting out of his comfort zone today and um i think i just honestly thank you just for an insight of like a different ways for me to think because he came in here with the impression he's like, I'm going to get crucified. Like it's just,

everything's going to be against me. And I think that was the exact opposite. So if anything, it helped both of us really calm down both of our anxieties. Well, we're glad to hear, but yeah, just try to, the ultimatum, not a glad to hear. But yeah, just try to... The ultimate, not a huge fad. I don't know if that's going to do you a lot of good, but you are valid to want security if you're willing to invest more of your energy in this relationship.

That's valid. So you just have to figure out productive ways of doing that. And then hopefully you guys will have a happy ending. Yeah, thank you. All right. Well, best of luck i appreciate it guys thank you all right take care you too you're far more cynical than i realized yeah like you're a chronic dater aren't you that's what the internet says. Yeah, I'm definitely a cynic.

Yeah. I'm a healthy cynic. I'm a pragmatic person. What's the quotes game or whatever? Okay. So this was inspired by, on January 22nd, the US Army Twitter tweeted a Lana Del Rey quote.

That was very, it was appropriate, you know, kind of on brand for the Army. It was, being brave means knowing that when you fail, you don't fail forever. And a lot of people thought this was very funny on the internet because of, you know, people don't usually associate the U.S. military with Lana Del Rey. So this is just a little game where i have a list of quotes these are from either a current like modern day celebrity or a politician trailblazer thought leader throughout history and so i'm going to give you the quote and i'm going to give you a it's either or and you guys are going to guess who said it oh boy okay okay i won't know any of this okay so first one knock me down nine times but I get up ten and was that

Muhammad Ali or Cardi B Muhammad Ali oh nine times ten yeah say it again what's the quote

knock me down nine times but I get up ten I'm going to say Muhammad Ali but it's Cardi B is Muhammad Ali like knock me down seven times I I stand up eight? Probably. Okay. So the next one, calm mind brings inner strength and self-confidence. So that's very

important for good health. Was this a quote by the Dalai Lama or Gwyneth Paltrow? Gwyneth Paltrow, just because Cardi B was the last one. No guess, Nick? I want to say Gwyneth Paltrow, but I'm going to say the Dalai Lama just for... It was in fact the Dalai Lama. Shoot. Okay. Are we playing against each other? It's collaborative, maybe. There's no awards won.

Pride. Next one. Knowing how to be solitary is central to the art of loving. When we can be alone, we can be with others without using them as a means of escape. Was this bell hooks or Iggy Azalea? I'm going to go with bell hooks. Who was my other choice? Iggy Azalea.

There's no way Iggy Azalea would say that. Okay, yeah, it was bell hooks. Nice job, guys. I think you won. I got lucky. I think we all won. We all won. Alexandra, thanks so much for coming.

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Where can people support your campaign, find you, follow you, get more involved with all the things that you're doing? Please let them know. Our website is huntforcongress.com. Spell everything out. Our Instagram is alexandrahuntforcongress,

same for TikTok, same for Facebook, and our Twitter is ahunt4congress. We are looking for volunteers and supporters, small dollar donations. Also, we'll put all that information on our episode description. If you're in the car listening and you don't have a pen and paper, you can go ahead and click at,

uh, on, on, uh, while our episode description, it'll be all there. Uh, if you want to support anything Alexander is doing,

uh, thank you for coming. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story and your insight, especially on, uh, sex workers and the, and the,

the rights that they haven't had. And, and, uh, I think we can all agree that there's a lot of room for growth in that area. And I appreciate you sharing that story. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in your questions at AskNickCastMe.com. Cast with a K for your Ask Nick episodes and your mediation.

I want to thank all the guys who are agreeing to go on because it's always the same story. They don't want to come on. It seems to be the women in the relationship are asking them to come. But so far, we're right down the middle. The guys always think they're going to get, as Corey said, crucified.

But that's not our intent. It's not our intent. So thanks for listening, guys. Thanks for sending those questions. We'll see you next time. And next week, Rachel Lindsay, my friend, will be back in studio talking about her book, her life,

all the things that are going on. It'll be great. Rachel's always great. We'll see you then. Bye.