The Viall Files - E379 Bachelor Recap With Becca Moore

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

Today we are joined by the hilarious TikToker and massive Bachelor Fan, Becca Moore, as we dive in to recap another crazy episode of The Bachelor. After getting into some Hot Goss, we kick things off by talking about Shanae. We dive deeper into the situation between her and Elizabeth, talking about Clayton’s apology tweet about neurodivergency, and using personal experience to navigate our conversations around relationships and ADHD. We also talk about the divide between the house that happens once the Bachelor makes his top picks of contestants, making the other women the focus of producer generated drama. We also talk about the impact of an edit and how audience members can sometimes overlook the emotions and stresses that come with being on reality TV. “If you’ve been in a two on one, the lead doesn’t like you.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Curology: Go to http://www.Curology.com/VIALL to start your 30-day trial! Cancel anytime. Prescription subject to consultation. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @becccamooore See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files bachelor recap edition i'm joined by ali amanda and my guest the very funny and wonderful becca moore this is like my met gala you guys i'm like this is a make-a-wish experience for me i've watched this show from the beginning this podcast yes i'm not even kidding really i watch you on andy's season i read andy's book oh yeah back in the day and i've watched like ever i watch your bachelor season two i have a lot of thoughts about that. I wish we were talking about that right now.

It's like way more interesting. Sorry, Clayton. Probably not. I don't know. Maybe. No, we don't have time. We're running out of time. But you're a fan. You're an expert. That's why you're here. I discovered Becca on TikTok. Do yourself a favor.

If you're on TikTok, Becca has a lot of great content. It's like your own relationship and dating kind of stuff in a very comical way. You've recapped people's dating profiles. You did a whole series on you becoming an alpha male, which is hysterical. It's really good. It's very funny. I've really enjoyed follow. Well, I don't follow you, but you show them my for you page. Oh my God. Why would you say that?

Because like, that's the beauty of TikTok. You don't have to always follow people. And like, yeah. After I told you. Until I know people, like I don't necessarily always follow them. Becca, to you, I've been invested in your podcast from the very beginning. Not even your podcast. I don't follow you

I just figured out she's listen either way I just we've been fighting all morning you guys by the way

the second we met I was like I'm so sick of you playing devil's advocate on this podcast I don't follow her on TikTok I'm sure I will now

after the show we always follow people who come on the show either way she's very funny you're very funny on TikTok do yourself a favor check

it out um but turns out you're also a big bachelor fan yeah i'm like a die hard i'm like it's embarrassing i'm really invested we host a show to talk about it so no one's judging you in this room the wonderful delightful rachel lindsay is with us tomorrow to talk about her book. We talk about life. We do a mediation call, talk a little pop culture. You won't want to miss that. Rachel always delivers. And don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com.

Cast with a K for our Ask Nick's, our mediation episodes. Be sure to check those out. Subscribe, review. Am I missing anything? Oh, next week on the recap, Greg and Andrew will be with us in studio to help break down the next episode. But that's next week.

This week, Becca Moore. Not as exciting as Greg and Andrew. No need to feel like this won't be an amazing episode just because you're introing Greg and Angie next week. They might be total bombs. I don't know. I think they'll be fine. I don't know.

It's like, I don't know if they... Do you follow them on TikTok, Nick? I know. I don't. They came to Nashville. I met them. I met Andrew S. this weekend. They're in town.

Delightful man. I had met Greg before. I started following Andrew S. after I met Andrew S this weekend there in town delightful man I had met Greg before I started following Andrew S after I met him I really you have to earn Nick's follow you guys

it's really hard I don't even mean it like that I was just being honest I just I said something about following and then I was like kind of like

said it out loud and all we have is our honesty yeah it's like just all we have is our honesty yeah we just anyway what's uh what do we got and uh bachelor nation ali we got some tea before i jump into i feel like the main one i do want to mention that people spotted you out with andrew and greg um and people i don't know what site it was submitted to but it was like nick vial and Nick Vial and Natalie, like out for dinner and we sat in an intimate section

where like the pale next to us was, you know, when you slide in to like half of it's a booth, you always have to be like, I'm very sorry for what's about to happen. It's either the crotch or the butt like is about to get real close. Very intimate seating.

You know what I'm saying? Like on an airplane. You guys all look confused. No, it makes sense to me. Do you just mean it was like very small? Like the amount of space you had?

Yeah, it's very tight. So like when there's, when people are sitting down and you're getting into your booth, you literally just like, I'm really sorry. I'm about to like

get real intimate with you. It's like a, it's a very tight. Sure. So you felt like the people that you're with knew who you were and they were like

taking you. When we sat down it was there was a there's always a you know if someone does or not. Yeah.

You just check you are aware of your surroundings and we suspected that possibly one of them did. But uh Well look at you.

Was that I just thought I just thought it was funny that the person who submitted was new specifically you and Natalie but had no idea who the other two were they're far more recognizable

I just thought it was a funny story but it wasn't like the Dale and Peter when they walked into a bar and said no one noticed this here and we left and we didn't eat or something I honestly didn't see it someone told me about it hot tea well I feel like the main thing is something? No. Okay, that's good. I honestly didn't see it. Someone told me about it. Hot tea.

What else we got? Well, I feel like the main thing is since Elizabeth was sent home last week, the social media that Elizabeth has been posting, Clayton posted a long statement to Elizabeth. They're both looking forward to talking at the tell-all.

How much other tea do we have? Because we will spend some time. That's the main tea. The rest is kind of meh. I mean, it's not meh. What is the other meh? Well, people are traveling. Bachelor Live was announced. Hannah and Dylan are postponing their wedding.

Bachelor Live is announced. It's a bunch of... Yeah. Demi tweeted about the Marissa and Riley breakup. And Ashley and Jared had their bebe. Ashley and Jared had their be Ashley and Jared had their baby that's there you go that's big news

why are they postponing their wedding? oh yeah they decided to put the money towards a new house as opposed to who postponed? wait hold on Hannah and Dylan they postponed

yeah they said they wanted to put the money towards their new house it's a bachelor nation engagement they have the right to yeah get to know each other you don't think they're really no I think that's it's a real relationship but like where they got engaged in paradise

you're gonna break my heart right now I love them they're great I really do love them and everything I know about them is they seem to have a great relationship I'm just saying they're they're they've been together for how long two or three years longer right has it been that was a one cup but in bachelor years i feel like you know like anyway suggesting that they're not incredibly healthy i'm just saying they got engaged as they met so like long engagements are this is not like i don't know meeting someone september of 2019 two years but I would argue that potentially buying a house together is more of a commitment

than an engagement in terms of do they buy or they're both on the they're both on the lease yeah I don't feel like

this is like a bad thing I'm not saying it's a bad thing at all yeah thank god I'm just like normal like Jojo and Jordan have been engaged

for like seven years because of COVID it got pushed thank god but I love seven years. They're still engaged. Because of COVID, it got pushed. My God. But it's fun. I love them. They're still allowed to. They were like the last couple that I really believed in.

Like that was like right after that is when like the magic got lost for me. Sometimes I rewatch their engagement video to feel joy. Me too. I cry every time. I don't know. After that, it was like, these people are not right for me. Like in the real world, they would never work out. Did they set, did Dylan and Hannah set a date?

Like was there a date set or? I don't think so. Maybe they were just trying to get people off their back of stop asking. Sure, yeah, people ask all the time. Yeah. I just mean like it's normal to have. Okay, whatever. Before I get married.

I'll get over it. You know, like maybe we just keep learning and falling in love and building that foundation before like we have to hire lawyers to break up

do you think they'll make it I have no reason to think they won't okay that's what I was getting at I was like I wanted you to tell me that they were

I know very little about the relationship I consider them friends or more acquaintances when we see each other we say hi Dylan's a funny guy Hannah seems nice I know very little about the relationship. I consider them friends or more acquaintances. When we see each other, we say, hi, Dylan's a funny guy. Hannah seems nice. I know very little about the relationship. But everything I know is it seems rock solid.

The little bit I know. That's all I needed. Ashley and Jerry, congrats. Beautiful child. Very happy for them. Baby Dawson. You were telling Ashley, by the way, I watched that season too. It'll never work.

That's what you said. He'll never love you. Look at them now. How do you feel about that season too it'll never it'll never work that's what you said he'll never love you look at them now how do you feel about that I feel great about it why because Jared needed Ashley needed to let Jared go which she finally did uh and dating someone else which she finally did and sadly like and Jared regrets regrets it but jared owns the fact that like he needed that kick in the pants because he just didn't see it and he it wasn't until ashley had finally stopped chasing jared and finally started dating someone else uh that jared freaked out the hard to get thing and i was there for the freak out and uh now they're happily ever after. So I don't regret saying it, but I was 100% wrong for sure. But here they are now. A living, breathing, beautiful child.

A product of bachelor nation. So for all the terrible relationships it starts, here's one to root for. I'm just saying, sometimes you're wrong about things. Totally. All the time. I was wrong about, we'll get wrong about things. Totally, all the time. I was wrong about... We'll get into this episode. Gabby?

Yeah? Sometimes when you explain things to me or on your show, I start believing everything he says. Because he's like, I don't know. I feel like you're the devil's advocate. Sure. Well, we'll get into that too. Last week, obviously, I real riled people up.

Last week, you were just... My whole point of last week, I think riled people up you were just my whole point of last week when i think most people who listen understand but not everyone i certainly riled people up as some people called defending shanae my argument with shanae is as with everyone it's never as good or as bad i just don't think i do try to to like, if you want to watch The Bachelor and take the edit at face value and just recap that, we're probably not your show. Like there's other podcasts owned by Bachelor Nation, like that might be your cup of tea and they do a good show. like I try to consider other avenues. I try to be critical of producers when it makes sense. And I am critical of cast when they like will blame producers for like all of their decisions,

which also isn't accurate. So that's what I was going to say. I believe you when it's like spliced together and like when you can't see their face saying the words, but we see her say the word. We're going to get into that. I'm like passionate about it. Yeah, no get into Sinead. I'm passionate about it. Yeah, no.

And Sinead looked terrible this episode. I always want to work my best. I do. Call me superficial. Call me vain. I want to age gracefully. And a big part of, for me, doing that is moisturizing my skin. So I have the youthful appearance that I have.

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we have the cautionary tale of Olivia Caridi, of how bad she looked and how brutal Bachelor Nation was towards Olivia, how detrimental it was to her mental health. I have friends who did not like her on the show and they were just like, no, she's terrible. And I don't know, I barely know her. like the producers, like when they did Bachelor, like the greatest of all time,

that was the closest thing they've ever gotten to a public apology when they had Olivia on, which was kind of like, we edited it. What are you doing? Like you're doing great. Like you're a good person, you know?

And so that's all I'm saying is like, let's just, which brings us to Clayton's apology. But I feel like we do feel like we have so much access to their, we know them even though we don't because we're watching their like, how you would react in a situation that is so simulated. Like this would never happen.

A guy dating 20 girls, the girls live together. And then we watch how they react. And then we compare the different reactions that these people are having. So people feel like they have access to these people and they know them and so and they remind them of someone they grew up with and went to school with

and they're like I hate that girl that was my high school bully you know like stuff like that because I feel the same I feel like I know you and I don't

because I'm like why are you always playing and I don't know I do play devil met you for the first time that's how my brain is I think you and the devil are co-workers Nick

ooh sorry that sounded a lot harsher when I said it my brain is I think you and the devil are co-workers Nick ooh sorry that sounded a lot harsher when I said it I just mean I think you're diligent I'm not offended I'm okay

we can move on I was I was wrong about Gabby what did I say a couple weeks ago like meh like Gabby doesn't do it for me

great right I think I like her Gabby might not she's fine Gabby might be our next bachel Gabby might not Gabby might not Gabby might not Gabby might not Gabby might not Gabby might not Gabby might be our next bachelorette

no I don't know yes I don't know I like her but no I would love I will this is going to be on

Dave Neal by the way Dave Neal is making a clip I'll make an argument for why I think Gabby could be the next bachelorette uh later in this episode

Caitlin Bristow vibes anyway so Clayton Clayton tweeted, uh, this was on February 1st. Uh, I'm sorry, Elizabeth,

for what you're going through. I wish I could have seen what was happening when I wasn't there. I obviously knew y'all weren't in a good place with each other, but I thought at the time that it was solely petty drama. I would have sent Sinead home immediately for making fun of you for being neurodivergent. Had I known overall the experience for me watching hasn't been fun simply because i'm seeing all of the damage that i caused i really meant well but my actions weren't always the best as i now can see the repercussions from my

decisions i can promise you i'm learning from the mistakes though and i'm doing everything in my power to come out the other side a better man. I mean, very nice apology. Like, this show is now becoming a Clayton Stan show for me. Oh, come on, really? In the same sense of, like, I've been as hard on him as anyone. But objectively speaking, Amanda has been the team Clayton advocate. The champion of Clayton. I guess what I'm saying is is this guy, after last episode,

was, again, batonation with just really nasty comments towards Clayton for something. His apology was, while very kind and thoughtful, that apology has shown us Clayton, this guy, whether you like him, whether he's your cup of tea, whether you would date him in the real world, whether his tics he does annoy you or not not whether you think he's a good dresser whether you think he's deserving to be a bachelor that's but he seems like an all right guy yeah you know he seems like he's he's done nothing but just be nice to people but I feel like it's so like I don't know I feel like he watched like a YouTube video of how to be like the best bachelors

and started recreating their lines and like I don't know what he is is being one of the easiest to work with

bachelors of all time because he's grateful that he is a bachelor sure yeah but he is I don't I'm this is all

just from my point of view I can't I'm not I'm not accusing anyone but I believe that this is all just from my point of view. I can't, I'm not, I'm not accusing anyone, but I believe that he is very willing to go along with a lot of guidance from the, you know, the producers. And so like Clayton, this whole, like Clayton got all this heat because how dare he send Elizabeth home this fan favorite well-spoken queen who was edited to not get a

chance to show Clayton who she really is and when he sent home Elizabeth there were like 15 women still left do you can you name them could them? Can anyone listening name the 15 women that were like still around after Elizabeth went home? And Elizabeth went home, not because like Sinead dimmed her light or like did any of the above. It was because Clayton wasn't interested in her, like at all.

And I'm not saying that as a matter of opinion, I'm saying that as a matter of fact,'s someone who's like you know I do have like a little inside info ever and I've said this before every season every lead night one they have cue card like about this size pictures of everyone and after night one before the rose ceremony they're just like because you you know your your brain's fried and you don't know what's what he's let all the pictures and because it is so about one person looking for love they do in fact ask the lead who do you like like they genuinely want to know who are you interested in they'll maybe give you like five or seven usually like three or four because like how many people can you possibly be super into out of 30? And then if you're being really generous, if you're really like maybe 10, maybe, maybe.

So if you don't make the top 10, the lead, man, woman, has no idea, doesn't care, doesn't know you, just generally indifferent. And so if you get airtime in the first couple of weeks, it is because you are a part of drama. And the reason, you know, like, so like people, people might say, oh, well, no, but if, if, if, if Sinead didn't do that to Elizabeth, she would have gotten an opportunity to, to, for Clayton to like her. And I'm saying, no, it just doesn't work that way the only reason why she was allowed to be in this is because clayton didn't like her producers would have protected her they wouldn't have allowed they wouldn't have a lot they'd be like hey stay away

from that's that's a matt stay away from that there you're not gonna you know that's why the women that claim is into aren't involved because they're're just like, there's something going on in that room that you don't need to be a part of that. You know? Because... I never thought about it that way. That happens all the time. And they are allowed to make their own bed

if they're not relevant to Clayton's love story. And so they have another purpose for the show. We are making a reality TV show that we like to watch and we want stakes and we want to root for and against people. And that's what they're giving us. And if you want to be mad at producers for highlighting ADHD, then be mad at them because they definitely used that. But I think we got to know Elizabeth and who she might be from her social media activity

following her exit from the show, which again, doesn't say she's a good or bad person, just shows that she is just another person on The Bachelor who came for attention and so desperately wants to maximize her moment from the show. How weird was that TikTok though? Yeah. At first evidenced by Elizabeth made her own Bachelorette promo. Who does that? Great question. She said, I'll be back it was really good I mean

like Katie would have been there's no doubt Katie saw that and been like why couldn't have I had something like that and Elizabeth well I don't know if she got help or not but like she probably was the the EP of that project you know she probably coordinated that director writer my honestly my only note for Elizabeth is like next time, like start your gate, your walk. It started as if someone said action

and then she started walking. She wanted to have been walking as, but other than that, it was really well done. Really well done. Can you imagine hitting post on that? Like that's so embarrassing, don't you think?

That's a lot. Saying that I'll be back, like is she insinuating that she's gonna be on bachelor in paradise sure yeah i actually like i i think for a good i i think there's a chance that elizabeth still thinks she has a chance to be the best right because she's writing okay i can say this because i have add so do you yeah well let's preface this is that like elizabeth posted uh neurodivergent i didn't i did not know that word existed until clayton apologized for it i thought it was interesting that the notes app thought that was the only word that he misspelled i didn't i didn't know that it was i had never heard of it so i went to i googled it I went to the website. I took all their tests.

I know, I already knew all this. I was diagnosed with ADHD in the eighth grade. I was medicated for it. I got off of it because I didn't like how it affected me. I don't know how your experience with ADHD was. I just got diagnosed like six months ago. I've been called absent-minded my whole life. I've been picked on for it.

It hasn't always been fun. I've been called absent-minded my whole life. I've been picked on for it. It hasn't always been fun. I've spent 20 minutes looking for keys in my pocket. Stuff like that. I lived my whole life without knowing I had severe dyslexia until about three years ago. And this NeuroDivergent website, there's this other thing. I don't know how to pronounce it. I took that test.

And while they say it's not a diagnosis, turns out I have signs of severe. Got that too. I'm just saying like I'm part of that community. But you don't write off of that. I don't write off of it. Also, I just want to, just a note. I'm just curious for the people who suffer from dyslexia. Part of the symptom is we, in our brains,

we mix up words. And why do we call it dyslexia? It's like the hardest word ever. Like every time I try to like text someone, sorry about my grammar, my typing, like I have dyslexia. It's a fucking journey for me. And I can't Google it

because I don't even know where to start. I know, they're like, that's the worst when you're trying to spell a word and it's like, autocorrect can't help you now. Like you are too far gone. Yeah. And like, and listen, like sometimes it's a way to explain things. Like how many, be honest, I've never asked you this question, Ali and Amanda, how many

times do I ask you a question and you start talking and you literally see my brain go to a different place? Frequently. Frequently. Is it sometimes frustrating and almost even dismissive and rude? Yes. Yeah. And I'm sorry. And my ADHD is a reason why I do that. Is it an excuse for... You don't black out when you're in the hot tub though. Don't forget being places. Don't forget being places. That's not a thing. I don't know. She was gaslighting, Shanae. I don't don't know maybe she did it you could argue that she didn't think that was the moment but it is a slippery slope and like in your inner yeah if if you have

ADHD and you're listening chances are you don't get to blame in a relationship. Anytime you've ignored your partner or didn't hear something that can get real frustrating. So as adults, we try to work on it. And certainly, as I told this story, like Natalie knows I have it. She can get frustrated, but she also tries to help me out. And one way to help me out, she's done a couple of things. When we go to a restaurant, of things. When we go to a restaurant, she will sit, she will sometimes, it seems like she's running to the part of the seat where she's facing the restaurant and I'm facing the wall. Why? Because otherwise my brain will just like observe the most random of things. And Natalie also for Christmas got a find your wallet. Life's game changing for for me i don't have to spend five minutes wondering where i put my wallet and find it in the most random places like this is truly amazing we see

like real traumatic backstories that these women have like people struggling with issues that are like okay i could if i put neurodivergent in my bio i I'm sorry. I don't know. It just is a little bit cringy. It seems a little much. It seems a little calculated. Timing. I would love to know, and I don't know. Maybe people listening can help us out. Did she have this neurodivergent in her bio prior to being casted on the show?

Or after she came off? And I don't know. But that would speak. And the reason why I'm being a little critical here is on, it's like if you're going to be or try to be the spokesperson and try to post things about how. Have a platform that like centers around something. Yeah, you center it and you're talking about mental health and you're doing this,

then like you should be careful what you post and how you say it and you're talking about mental health and you're doing this, then like you should be careful what you post and how you say it. And Elizabeth did a Q and a, and someone asked her, why did you lie about being in the hot tub? And that's the Q and a she started with. And we're not going to play the whole thing, but her answer for why she lied about the hot tub was she referenced her ADD.

And she gave a very clinical reminder of like, you know, someone with ADD would experience. And so, yeah, maybe she didn't realize that was a time. I agree with you, Becca, that I'm unaware that ADHD is an excuse to forget where you are. But it's possible that maybe she didn't notice Elizabeth or Sinead there. I mean, I've had people come up to me, start talking to me 30 seconds later. I'm just like,

oh, Dan, didn't know you were there. That's possible. I recognize that for Elizabeth. Maybe she didn't realize that she was there, even though it turned into arguments of semantics. But anyways, so to answer her question about why she lied, she starts off saying this. Here's a great one to start with. So if you've been paying attention, you know that I have auditory processing issues. One of the types of ADHD is an intensive, meaning that it's hard to concentrate on multiple auditory inputs at the same time. If you're talking about ADHD

and you're talking to a comedian, I have no doubt that many of the people who have been following Elizabeth have been seen by her and recognize her and you ask and you condescendingly say, well, if you've been paying attention, no, Elizabeth. No, they can't. I haven't. I have ADHD.

You can't pay attention. And it's just, listen, we've all said stuff like that. I have let off something. I've been condescending. I have said, well, if you've been paying attention. Of course, I have. But this is her acting as if she is this unproblematic, righteous, everyone's mental health.

She also posted a picture with a caption, her like looking down, like part of her photo shoot, I only imagine of her self promotion. Like I should be the next bachelorette. And the caption was looking for who hurt Shanae, like question mark. Now again, I've said that, I've said like, oh, who hurt you? We've all said it's a common thing. It's a common comeback. She has since changed that caption. So even Elizabeth recognizes if I'm going to talk about mental health, maybe I shouldn't suggest

that Sinead might be a victim of some sort of trauma, which is causing her to act this way. And the truth is we don't know Sinead. We don't know what Sinead has been through in her life or why she's acting like such a fool and so toxic this whole season. Maybe nothing, maybe something we don't know. But like problematic caption, and we know that's problematic because Elizabeth has since changed it.

She didn't acknowledge it. And it's just more, it's just a little much. It's just- This is not about supporting people with ADD or calling attention to people who are neurodivergent. This is about her... Elizabeth. Elizabeth.

That's what I'm talking about. This is about her ADD and her getting attention and being like, I'm not problematic. I just have something wrong with my brain. It's not about... Because she was like, if you're paying attention, I don't know. It's just so red flaggy. It's red flaggy. And I think we're saying the thing, she's making this about her. It seems like she's using it. And if people have felt seen as a result of her talking about it, I think that's awesome. I think you can talk about it. And even this part, like, listen,

I have dyslexia, ADHD. I have, I don't know how to pronounce this other thing. I don't even know what it is. Dyspraxia? Is that it? I have, apparently, according to their website, I have signs of that severely. I don't know. But you know what that also very helpful website says?

If you have these things, you have a lot of talents too. Your brain is made a certain way. People who have dyslexia, like they're often meant to turn into great leaders. They are more creative because they can think outside of the box. People with ADHD bring a sense of energy and like fresh ideas to the room. Like they have a lot of talents.

It is the brain works differently and you adapt. It's like what allows me to play the devil's advocate or think of like different ways to say things that why might piss people off but it'll get some thinking you know and that I've got an excuse for her to be toxic yes it's not an excuse to pick on someone else and and and this is not us defending Shanae either like this you can hold Shanae accountable and still say you know what maybe elizabeth isn't this unproblematic right queen who if only it weren't for shanae you know her and and

clayton would be you know together and then her like tweeting things about she's ready to come to women tell all and she's ready to kind of like go after clayton go go after Sinead. And it's just like, I predict that it might not go as well for Elizabeth as she might hope or want. You know, I wouldn't surprise me if she, what if she suggests to Clayton, I told you, but I told you, maybe you didn't air it. I told you that I had it. But certainly she knows what it's like

for someone not to hear something you know like it's just a slippery slope it's just like I don't know like yes if for those of us who have ADHD it can be it can be tough sometimes we can get frustrated ourselves and I think it's fair to say that like I also have ADD and I think it's fair to say that like we're good like that it is not necessarily one unified cohesive experience so it sounds like a lot of what you're responding to is that maybe elizabeth seems with her social platforms to be taking on a role that's speaking for maybe more people than feel represented by her uh yeah but i think what we're saying is it seems disingenuous and i think she seems to be using this what she has is a way to garner more

sympathy and attention and going about in a way that kind of shows a light on her that she is not as maybe as considerate and as thoughtful or and sometimes she can say things that could be considered hurtful or condescending. She indirectly mocked people with ADHD when talking about ADHD. She did make the buffet comment, like the Ohio buffet comment in regards to Shrimpgate where she was like, I don't know what it's like at a buffet in Ohio,

but that's not how, like- I'm from Ohio and I have ADD. I feel victimized. And I think it kind of goes to your point about saying like, we shouldn't view Bachelor Nation people in absolutes. Like just like shanae is someone who's not worthy of getting like death threats and like who has whose words while certainly incredibly incriminating have also been carefully constructed into a narrative and so like yeah so it sounds like you're what you're

saying is that like elizabeth is not a saint correct and this is i don't want you guys going over to elizabeth's instagram and start like yelling at her but she what she is is a saint. Correct. And I don't want you guys going over to Elizabeth's Instagram and start like yelling at her. But what she is, is a... Like a nuanced human being. I don't know Elizabeth. Maybe she's awesome. And maybe her like 24 hour

like social media activity was just like her, like getting carried away in a moment that she... I get it. And she might be fine. I have no... I don't...

That's all I know about Elizabeth. I trust what she posted on her social more than I trust the edit, you know, and the show does simplify, it strips them down and it picks one trait, whatever that trait is about you.

Good, bad, crazy. Good or bad and they focus on that trait and that is who you are by the definition of the show. But that's,

I would, sometimes, okay, Rachel went to my college and I'm rooting for her, okay. She went to my college. Oh, she did. And she was hot. Do oh she did and she was hot you know her no i don't know her she was older she's like she's like a bartender she graduated before me but i remember like i don't know she was really hot i'm rooting for her i'm biased but i think she wins i think she wins too wife i hope too but um i sometimes when i watch the show now, especially post Claire,

Claire is like when it was like my before and after. When Claire was The Bachelorette, everything went downhill for me because I don't believe it anymore. Like I'm like, no, no one actually likes her, right? I want to believe because of her behavior, not talking about Claire as a person. But when people are edited to be so good, I'm like, you just like are practicing. Like you're practicing like how to talk and like what to say.

I mean, if you know the show, you watch the show, you realize if you like carve out like the five same sentences. Yeah. Well, that's why I like, I'm not a fan of Clayton because. And if you get liked by the lead,

all you have to do. But I like have a kind of a sad story. Say you believe that everything happens for a like have a kind of a sad story is say you believe that everything happens for a reason have kind of a sad story and just be grateful for whatever it is

but be like kind of like the girls have to be like kind of quiet and like mysterious and like just I don't know I just don't

I don't trust the girls that are like too calculated like when I want someone to like actually have real responses to what's going on in front of them in real time that's why I don't trust the girls that are too calculated. When I want someone to actually have real responses to what's going on in front of them in real time, that's why I don't really like, I don't trust Clayton.

Because everything that the girls say to him, he's like, I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing. You're absolutely right. We've been very hard on Clayton. I just think people are being so hard on a guy who is, You're right though. He a, what's I'm, he's doing his best. He's a fish out of water. He's in way over his head. He decided like similar to what I decided, you know, when I

was the bachelor, I had a relationship with the producers. I very much knew about that world. I had, I was a two-time runner up. So I got a lot to see a lot behind closed doors. I had done a lot. I've been a villain. I've been a hero. Like I kind of understanding, I saw the matrix,

right? So I saw the value in doing certain things. I knew like, I thought Corinne was funny. I thought she was great. And I, I was going to ask you about, and, and I knew that, I thought Corinne was funny. I thought she was great. And I was going to ask you about Corinne. And I knew that if I took Corinne to hometowns, I would get heat for it. I would get criticized that people would think I'm just going to,

I'm just, Oh, people, I knew people would think I just wanted to have sex with her, you know, as the guy who was sexualized. But a lot of people thought that. You know, the playhouse. And I had, while she's a wonderful person, I wasn't into Corinne romantically or sexually. And she had a nanny though, and she was funny. And she was great TV. And the women liked her. And I didn't care. It wasn't cramping my style.

I still got to get to know Vanessa Rachel and Raven three women who like clearly I was those those are the women I was focused on and so like Clayton is doing the same thing where it's just like hey guys like I'm just gonna choose to trust you guys I'm just gonna like what do you want me to I don't know like what do you what do you think I should do I don't fucking know like this is do you think I should do? I don't fucking know. Like, this is crazy. But you knew though. You knew Curran was like the villain. Yeah.

Do you think he knows? I know. I don't. That's what I'm saying. But she threw a trophy. He found that out after the fact. But he still took her back. He was like, do you think that was wrong? And do you think that's...

Do you think... That's a red flag if I'm dating a guy. And he throws a trophy I get why we're critical of Clayton I don't think people should judge the leads

by who they keep around or the drama they're a part of you judge the leads how they are in one-on-ones and and how they might be as like partners

like when he's with Serene and he's with Rachel and he's with with Gabby which I don't know if he like hit home runs in his responses, but he was thoughtful and present and empathetic. I don't know. And they all call him kind of like, I just think he's all right. You know, he might not be an eye cuff at you, but damn, if people are just not coming at this guy for, do you really think Clayton on a cocktail party showed up and said,

you know what I want to do? I want to talk to Sinead and Elizabeth and have them argue in between me. Because even though I'm not interested in both of them, they're not in my top 10, and I'm going to send Elizabeth home tonight. He knew. But you know what? He sat there like an idiot because he's a team player. I just want a real bachelor with real response.

Like if you were- Talk to the producers. If you were sober at a party with 30 girls and one of them all of a sudden throws a trophy, I would be like, ew, I don't like you. Probably leave, right? Like I just want them to be more like funny. And I think he is funny. And we will debate that on these shows

and fans will say that, but- I think he's funny. I saw a moment where he was like, he said he is funny. And we will debate that on these shows and fans will say that. But... I think he's funny. I saw a moment where he was like, he said something really funny. He was like, take your time complimenting. I don't know. And I was like, be funnier.

Every lead feels like the show strips them of their personality. Did you feel like that? For sure. Really? I mean, Paradise was the only time I was like, there, that's...

I saw versions of myself in every season. Like on Andy's season, I saw me being like, there, that's, I saw versions of myself in every season. Like on Andy's season, I saw me being like petulant on the mime date. I saw me like being, well, like in my head and look like I had this kind of resting bitch face, you know, which looked very, especially when you slap a soundtrack on it. Look, I saw me, I saw me. I saw me having a bad day, you know? But is that who I was that encapsulate me? I will say also now you have to have a sad story.

So all of these girls feel like they have to like trauma dump like on their first date with him. And it's probably a lot for him to like have to- Sure, it's tough. It's a tough role. And I just think as we judge our leads, listen, you lot for him to like have to. Sure, it's tough. He's a therapist. It's a tough role. And I just think as we judge our leads, listen, you don't have to like Clayton. I'm not here to tell you to like Clayton.

I'm just saying like, maybe we don't have to harass him on his social media and say some like pretty cruel things. And they started the season by reading him, I mean, tweets about him. Yeah, and it gets a little much because why? Like what what is he he's done nothing but kind of be a gentleman and and i just i think my my issue isn't with clay and honestly i think he's a great guy i think it's with bachelor like casting or whatever i think why are they choosing claire katie and clay and was rando you know uh

i can make guesses on all of them but like the magic is gone for me I don't know I'm just sad I didn't I want to believe it I want to believe two people are like

falling in love and they're like obsessed with each other and social media ruined that I will say this did like this episode in particular

did feel like a return to like bachelor drama this is the kind of like messy messy drama that's like feels a little bit more old school

if you take Sinead out then who hates each other no one right well not yet argued the same thing about the whole Luke P situation on Hannah's season

no that was majority of her season was Luke P drama yeah yeah but he was an awesome villain because he had no idea

that he was being the villain not only that but like again Sinead has been she would this is a bad episode for Sinead it's not good villain because he had no idea that he was being the villain not only that but like again Sinead has been taught this is a bad episode for Sinead it's not good it's just not

and I've said this Clary is doing plenty she's giving them a ton but her worst moments are in the ITMs and she is saying those things but in general, it's not a good look that that's all of her worst moments

because they would be inadmissible in court because you just don't know the context in which they're being said. Best case scenario, though. She clearly deserves criticism. This is not me defending.

Okay. That's all I wanted to do. But Ali and I were joking before about like the Meryl Streep comment, like the, literally the only way that could be taken out of context. They were like, compare your height to Meryl Streep. Yeah.

She's like, I'm here. Like there's some stuff like that. That does feel a little bit. She's very much deserves criticism. She, she is problematic. She, she was ignorant when she mocked Elizabeth's ADHD.

She was all those things. But you guys just don't know. I'm just telling you, when you sit in those chairs and you talk for hours, it's just not that. Sometimes I take for granted, having been in that world, just how easy it is to change the context of certain things. And that's all I'm saying the date starts with serene serene i mean at the pleasure pier she is the worst name i've ever she is striking she's hot she's so hot she's uh yeah i mean what a great date i mean i think uh

she was one of the people when she was opening up because I feel like a lot of people say like it's hard for me to open up I think that she was someone who I could genuinely tell was pushing themselves

outside of their comfort zone but I hated how he interrupted her like in the middle he was like oh yeah same my family was like that too anyways

keep going it's tough it's tough I know maybe he's just bored because he wants someone to ask him about him for once

there is that there probably is that. His job. Make no mistake. The Bachelor is not just there for love. They have a job to do. And that is help them make a TV show. And there are plenty of moments where they're just like sit there and listen and ask them questions. And also, by the way, you're getting engaged

at the end of this. Yeah. They're not saying that. But there is a pressure of pause. So you're just like, wait, I don't know anything about these people i'm just going i'm here to ask them questions i'm here to hear about their sad story which are sad and you can trauma bond sure but that does that teach us who they are i honestly thought that when she when she when when serene was talking i thought honestly maybe she was going to be like, I have some bad habits.

Wouldn't that, I actually think that would be a great date. Like, I think if Elizabeth, if Clayton liked Elizabeth, she very well may have, like if they would have framed that date with sad music and she would have earnestly said,

I have ADHD. It's been really hard. I do think many people in Bachelor Nation would have mocked her. There would have been memes. I do think that. But if they would have edited a different way and framed it, and she's like, can I be, I'm just like, it's not a big deal. Like I have ADHD and I don't know if that sounds silly,

but can I like, I have bad habits. Here's, let me give you a list of reasons that if you pick me and we get engaged, I might annoy you. I would have been kind of like a cool date to be like, because those are the shit like you want to talk about, of like a cool day to be like because those are the shit like you want to talk about but they don't want to air that

because it's not interesting but like can you imagine that like I leave cupboards open like you're going to accuse me of like flat out ignoring you I'm going to sometimes

make you feel even though we're in the same room that like I'm not in the same room with you yeah and I I'm embarrassed to say same room with you. Yeah. And I'm embarrassed to say that. And it makes me feel really vulnerable.

But I really want to be honest with you because I'm not good at always saying that. Because they need a sad story. So they try to conjure. They're like, well, let me think. Like divorce. I guess my parents got divorced. I'm not sad about it still. So they should just be funny.

I'm telling you. I wish too. I do wish the show wouldn't just force feed and give these cast people the expectation that they have to and when I want to say like Gabby's story oh my god like that was that was some relatable or an art unrelatable in a sense it's relatable in the sense I think everyone could relate to Gabby's story because whether you are disconnected with your parents or have an amazing relationship, as someone who has a great relationship with the parents, I relate in the sense that I could not imagine what that would be like. I had extreme empathy for Gabby in a recognition of how fortunate I am

to have the relationship I have with my parents. And so that pulled on my heartstrings. Yeah. I think that one was real because that probably affects the way that she has relationships. I also think her quote that I can give love, but I can't receive love was like really, I think it struck a real chord.

Yeah. I really like her. Yeah. I saw that. I was like, wow, she just put into words something I didn't know how to put into words. I like her too. Again, I loved her date and I think she could be our next Bachelorette but

that line when she said that line I actually before she heard her story it was the I'm a giver you know it was

it felt like a kind of a trope of like I just I love so much and I'm just looking for someone you know like like yeah compliment me it's same

to be honest it kind of, to me, it sounded like a platitude, which I now have the benefit of hindsight to realize what she meant by that. And now I've saw it very differently. But if I'm being honest, when she said that before her story,

I took it as a cliche. I thought it was after her story. I don't know. Because I feel like, because I think contextualized within like the. For sure, context matters. Yeah. But back to the street, it's an amazing day. I feel like, cause I think contextualized within like the context matters. Yeah. Yeah.

But back to the street, it's an amazing day. I felt like Clayton did a great job of pretending that he belonged in a date with Serena. Yeah. She's exceptional. Like she's out of most people's leagues and I, that's not a criticism of a club,

but wow. But I totally agree with you back here because it's become to the point where now when someone tells a sad story, we're like, Oh, we have to keep them. Is this? No. but wow but I totally agree with you Becca because it's become to the point where now when someone tells a sad story we're like oh we have to keep them is this

no or we're even questioning the authenticity of how greatly or ingreatly it's affected them I'm like that one was good like your parents died

okay but that one was stupid you're a neurodivergent so yeah and it kind of has become this thing even Serene when it's it got very pat uh like

heartfelt but at first she's like i don't really know what happened and i was like well what do you mean you don't really know what happened why yeah why are you bringing it up are you bringing it up you know like i wonder if serene and this is in no way discrediting how much that those experiences affected her oh my god i couldn't I've been thankful enough not to deal with a lot of death and loss in my life. Would she still have wanted to or felt comfortable opening up about talking about that on a date? Did that make her feel like Clayton really knows

who she is by talking? I don't know. But they're like forced to like talk about these things do you think it's out of desperation to like stay because like

to make him feel bad I think it's a I think the shows as much to blame as anyone they obviously like that and do you think that the girls kind of

have a sense that Rachel is like a front runner right now probably yeah I think every season you can tell you can tell women are very intuitive I think every season... You can tell? You can tell. Women are very intuitive.

I think they're better at telling than the guys are. Really? I think you can tell. Yeah. You see the way their body language and how they navigate and as much as you try to...

You can just tell. And that probably is the source of a lot of drama when they just start getting insecure. Yeah. And they're like, oh my God, I'm not going to win. Ugh, what like what do i do i need to tell him i don't know yeah 100 or that's when you always like that's when you are we're always wondering why would someone narc why would

someone yeah that's what i'm saying because that's the person that goes home but they talk shit because they're just like well you know he doesn't like me i need more air time i uh this is my moment yeah this is unfair this whole situation i'm in i think is unfair and i'm gonna be the one They talk shit because they're just like, well, you know, he doesn't like me. I need more airtime. This is my moment. Yeah, this is unfair. This whole situation I'm in, I think is unfair. And I'm going to be the one, the whistleblower who says it's unfair. And they sit there and they convince themselves

that they're right. And everyone's raw, like, you know, it's, and that, again, back to my original point, let's just watch the show and enjoy it. But let's all just like take it with just some grains of salt just because everyone's like frame of mind is warped in this and why am i criticizing any of them look yeah they went on for they went on just to be on tv that's okay i you know i've we've all done things for a little bit

of clout and attention if you're on social media and you have an audience, I'm sure you're like trying to be funny and get noticed and have people, you count your likes and you look at them. Yeah, but I don't be, I'm not trying to have like a different storyline than I normally would. No, I know, but I'm saying. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. I don't know.

But kind of going back to what you were saying about like the why is there this, what is it like when the expectation on one-on-one dates is like sharing something deeply personal and probably traumatic

because I think even the way like Clayton framed it when he was kind of like cuing Serene was like, I need you to be vulnerable because it becomes this thing where it's like expected

and then if you're not doing it, you're like this closed off stonewall person. Wasn't that bullshit? We're watching this fun date and meanwhile, we're getting this montage of like

Clayton like weirdly like questioning Serene's ability to open up. Like first of all, how did you know that? No, no. She brought,

she was like, what do you want to, what do you think you don't know about me? Do you think I'm mysterious? People always tell me I'm mysterious. I thought that was weird.

I was like, Serene, stop it. He had the weird comment here like, what's behind that smile? And I was like, because he just didn't know. She, no, okay. That was more like her trying to like, I behind that smile and I was like because he just didn't no she no okay

that was more like her trying to like I don't know I thought that was cringy on her part not his there's a lot going on do you think I'm mysterious

and then he was like oh that's a good story I can talk about that now now I have something to talk about you're mysterious yeah and then that becomes

her thing and now she's like well my cousin died his cousin grandma her grandma and her cousin yeah

because I think she had a plan to talk about it yeah and so she wanted to yeah and she said her grandmother was like a second mother to her and so and he knew he had to kiss her

so he's like what's behind that smile yeah but like to your point Becca this whole thing is the show's obsession with this being talked about and every one on one

is it makes us weirdly it takes away from the realness from people's stories real stories yeah and uh yeah and uh yeah and that yeah is that was that cringe that probably i mean but i would love everyone to go like film themselves on a day right i would you know it's just i'm not calling bachelor people heroes but like they're really taking one for the team for how cringy

all of us can be on on and awkward on dates when we when we get nervous but

anyway she gets a a rose she's uh gonna go far I mean she'll be

probably on paradise she's striking and um and yeah so they have a date then there's the group date the big thing about the group date is the thing about the group date is the two-in-one yeah you know brilliant how the producers should be like oh i mean yeah the next rose ceremony we're gonna send janae home

i mean or the two-in-one i'm assuming she's going home but we're gonna make you wait till next week you know like there's that oh we forgot back. Clayton, again, back to do you think Clayton really wanted to walk in and then pull all the women from his group date and do this intervention or playing lawyer? Nothing about these cocktail parties has allowed Clayton to learn about anyone to get a relationship. You know what i'm saying so like clearly like do you think that's him being like i need to get to the bottom of this i just love i love marlena i thought marlena the olympian because i just she leveled with him and she was like you're an athlete i'm an athlete when i take an l i take an l like that i just thought it was so just like to the

point she was so like i don know. I really like her energy. I think she's great. She's a former Olympian. And so as someone who like loves the Olympics and track and field, I'm mad respect for her. She's a runner. She's a track star. But I thought that was actually a weird thing to say. I mean, she is.

I thought it was weird too. They're both athletes. But like, what about the non-athletes in that room? I think that's so funny to preface anything by being like athlete to athlete. I'm hungry. I know. I'm hungry. She's like his friend.

And I say that as someone who's like, at one point in my life was an athlete, but just like a weird, it's like, I don't know if that really helps us in this atmosphere, but yeah, sure. Like we go hard. I definitely give 110%. I actually thought that was kind of, the. We go hard. I definitely get 110%. I actually thought that was kind of, the whole thing was weird. I actually believe Clayton

like is into Susie and Teddy's falling off the radar. I mean, I don't know. She's gone. I'm done with her. I think it's Sarah. Sarah.

He seems into Sarah. Sarah, Susie, and Rachel are my top three. Gabby? Yeah, for sure. Well, because they've been joking the whole time. But Clayton even kind of admitted on her date,

when someone says, oh, you surprised me, that's the bachelor saying, I forgot about you. You're kind of hot. I did not pick you for this date. But wow, I had fun. That's bachelor speak for, you're not in my top four. you for this date you know but wow I had fun like that's that's bachelor speak

for you're not in my top four the bachelor is not just about the bachelor it's about the women and the stories

in the next season we gotta get to know the characters we gotta set the stage so it's not about Clayton well and we for sure had to get to know Gabby because of the fact

that she dated Dean you know what I mean people wanted people were interested in her specifically Gabby is of the fact that she dated Dean you know what I mean people wanted people were interested in her specifically Gabby is the one that dated Dean yeah

wasn't it like I thought it was a date oh my god no Blake was the drink but she and Dean were like dating

dating in college for a long time Dean said he was like in love with that cigar yeah I'm in love with her too then

she's hot actually now that I know that she dated Dean maybe I just like slide on in but no I like her voice and I think she's hot actually now that I know that she dated Dean maybe I just like slide on in but no I like her voice and I think

she's very funny and I think that she shouldn't have led on the date with oh I didn't think it was going to be me like thank you for bringing me

I don't know she should have been more confident I think she was being very humble I think that's her stick she leads with I'm

the cute funny girl not the I think she yeah she says what's on her mind she leads with I'm the cute funny girl not the I think she yeah she says what's on her mind she's a beautiful woman like she's I respect her

because like when she does bits she was on the pavement she was on the sidewalk when the dog was there like she really like as much as people can be like

I'm so goofy and silly and then like make one or two jokes like I feel like she does really commit to the bits and so I believe her more than with other people.

I want to be friends with her. She is funny and she's in an environment where there's tons of competition and other beautiful women. It's easy to be intimidated. I told that one, that story, my

pickleball coach is my pickleball teacher. That's my favorite phrase you've ever said. Why do you have a coach? Are you taking lessons? I'm trying to get good at pickleball. What is pickleball? Right now?

So currently? Yeah. Okay. It's fun. It's like a paddle with a waffle ball. It's like tennis for people who don't want to be as athletic, but it's still like, you can get a sweat in. I don't want to be that athletic.

I just want to do pickleball. He's currently going through the process. Did you help him do that? I had nothing to do with it. It was a total coincidence. And he's like six foot. He's 5'11". And he was asking me about the process and I just said six foot and 5'11". It's a great height. No one's calling you short. It's a great height. Many successful men who are 6'5". Many successful pickleball players.

And he asked me, I just said, just so you know, and I don't know what you do with this information, but you will be one of the shortest guys there because they notoriously cast 6'2", 6'3", 6'4". That's almost all the guys. It's wild how tall they are. And it's very easy to be intimidated. As a guy, I'm tall. I'm 6'4". That's almost all the guys. It's wild how tall they are. And it's very easy to be intimidated. As a guy, I'm tall. I'm 6'2". And when I meet someone who's 6'2", or 6'3", or 6'4",

there's immediate... It's a little intimidating. You immediately, as a guy, you get a little worried that like, it's like, oh, this guy has me on the height. He has me. There's like a subconscious thing. And so in this world, I i could see how gabby surrounded by other exceptional women could feel like a little insecure not because her own things that she decided and her thing is relatable funny has a good joke and maybe you are right that she will be the bachelor and that's why she uh and that's why she said that because i don't think it was disingenuous i guess what i'm saying is i believe her i don't think she was saying it as a line like maybe maybe like serene was just like am i mysterious like that's a lot yeah you know practice that in the marriage like i don't think serene thinks like

anyone wonders if she might be batman You know. Like I'm mysterious. But yeah so she had her date. No. Wait. We had two. Yeah. We had two one-on-ones. Yes.

This is a weird episode. Yeah. So Serene's one-on-one rose ceremony. So Sierra, Lindsay W. and Jill all get sent home

and then we have the group date. Or no. First we have Gabby's one-on-one then we have the group date the roast. Should we get to the roast? Because or no first we have Gabby's one-on-one then we have the group date the roast should we get to the roast? because we moved to Toronto

before Gabby's one-on-one how funny though he was like I love Toronto yeah he kept he was not excited also when they were like we're going international

international I was like it's going to be fucking Canada of course it was the most American non-American city and I love Toronto it's a great city

yeah so anyways Gabby goes on her date and they played, like, hockey. On the street, it was weird. How long do you think you pretend to have fun

before you're like, can we stop playing this hockey game? Like, six minutes. I would get so into that. When we were in Finland, like, Raven and I, like,

played hockey on a lake, which just, that was cool. I'm on a lake with ice skates playing hockey. I've never done that before. These were,

these were two miniature sized hockey nets 10 feet apart from each other. With, you know, it was just kind of a weird, like, like did the tourism board be like, you have to remind people we like Canada.

Like, it just seemed like such an unnecessary. And then they had the maple syrup shots at the end. And Clayton chugged the whole thing. That was gross. The Brewers of War would be like, you have to remind people we like Canada. Like it just seemed like such an unnecessary. And then they had the maple syrup shots at the end. And Clayton chugged the whole thing. That was so inappropriate. Cause Eliza was doing the normal thing of just like, a little sip and then Clayton

is like knocked the whole thing back. Are we food shaming? Yeah, I don't think we should call it inappropriate. When I say inappropriate, I just mean like on a like, it was liquor, like in a jarring way. Not like in a like, that was inappropriate. I just mean like on a like. It was liquor. Like in a jarring way. Not like in a like, that was inappropriate. I just mean, that was wild. I'm giving you a hard time.

Yes, thank you. Gabby started this date. And again, like, as I mentioned before, like incredibly heartfelt. And that pulled at your heartstrings. That was Michael A. quality sad story. Michael A. I don't. Michael A. the... I don't think Michael A. Cancer.

Different. I didn't say it's the same. I'm not comparing it to death, but like... I don't agree with that. Michael A. level storytelling. Because I think the kind of authenticity and emotional intelligence. I've been lucky enough to not have someone in my immediate space die. Certainly not my wife. I don't know what that's

like i can't compare i also don't know what it's like to be disconnected from my parents but for the people who have that sounds terrible like to like feel like the way and it wasn't like the way it started it was like oh shit i feel bad for gabby's mom you know because she was like i'm not a lot of people go on this show and give very specific detail about like their parents like ignoring them there's a level of like real like problematic like behavior when she was describing her mom's behavior towards her like I felt really sad for her and then to find out she's not talking to her mom and then to like see that moment where Gabby kind of like realized what she was saying. Like, I'm really letting- She's like, sorry, that was a lot.

I'm really letting people know this relationship and then immediately wanted to defend her. I mean, I was like, she caught all the levels and I felt, I really felt for Gabby. And again, I'm not comparing it, but like, that's a real, I saw her pain and that's what I'm saying. And it looked like real pain that I can't relate to. And I'm thankful that I can't. And as opposed to someone being like, I got my, my boyfriend cheated on me or, or like my parents got divorced. At the same time though, I don't think there should be a pressure for these people, these

poor people on their first dates to be like I think that's like a little bit toxic for them to have and poor Clayton trauma dump yeah what is he how do you

respond all he says is I love that thank you for sharing not I love that it's like an SNL skit is it the best way to say it

no but like it is no I'm not critiquing him I'm just saying it's bizarre it is bizarre I don't think that people I'm so sorry you had to go through that

maybe he did say that. Again, that date happened for probably an hour long and it ended down to five minutes. We don't know all the things he said. I just feel bad for him. It's a tough position to be in. But I think she could be the next Bachelorette. Yeah.

I also think part of the reason that maybe her opening up and being vulnerable felt so authentic is because she has truly been like such a delight, so jokey, so fun. And so it felt like an appropriate way of like showing her depth versus like with other people.

You guys are making me fall in love with her. She's proven to be very likable. Very beautiful. First, she was the girl you'd want to hang out with, who you want to be friends with. And now after this date, it's like girl you'd want to hang out with who you want to be friends with and now after this date

it's like someone you really want to root are we all not rooting for Gabby after that date now that I think about it yeah yeah I would do anything

and what do you want in a bachelorette you know someone what's our biggest gripe with Clayton we don't give a shit if he finds love yeah

you think you're right he's like a rando like man that you pass by in the bar that you didn't even like see was there yeah and you're like. He's like a rando like man that you pass by in the bar that you didn't even like see was there. And you're like, oh, you seem like a nice guy

but like we're projecting our frustrations that we're not rooting for Clayton onto Clayton who's been nothing but a nice guy and we're just so mad

that we're like picking him apart. I want like a lead that has, you're right, I want like a Gabby lead where it's like I feel for them

but also I believe that they're hot and likable yeah she's beautiful and good looking and she seems to have dare i say like a little bit of it all i don't know why they don't put more effort in casting three to four people to the lead and and that the and that that the lead's really into and they would be into the lead because i I think they care about love, but I wish they would care more about love. If they cared more, the arguments would be so much more interesting. It would be more dramatic.

It would be just as... It would be like you and Josh. That was... Is that his name? Sure. But the lead being like, you know, I talk about this tomorrow with Rachel.

Like, I was just into Vanessa. I was. It just, it was my, you know, and... There wasn't racial like uh i was just into vanessa i was so it just it was my you know and and there wasn't enough girls that were there and nothing against any other women it's i don't think there is into me it wasn't it says nothing it's just not compatible if you if you casted more people that they would are compatible with and there's real chemistry i think the lead should be involved i think I think the producers should narrow it down to 40 or 50 or whatever. Maybe you're right.

And then bring in the lead to be like, who are you into? Like, who would you want to see? You know, they don't do that because they want it to be like, oh, you can't meet him until you get out of the limo. It's like, why? I don't understand.

I think you're right. That's a good idea. And like, pick people that you, and like, maybe your mind might change, but like. Like Tinder. Sure. Yeah. Pick like Swipe Ray on like 4D.

And I think you'll get more passionate fights and the end will be dramatic, you know, than it is some other seasons, but they don't do that. I don't know why. It's not my show. I'm not a producer,

but they seem to like their playbook and that's what they do. I don't know. It's like really turning me off right now. I like watching Clayton's season has been hard. I'm like, I'm not attracted to, I want to like feel like I want to like make out with the person maybe. I don't know.

Well, that's not Clayton's fault. But yes, they. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm like really talking shit about Clayton. No, and that's fine. We've been, we've been hard on the guy. It's just when I, when I go into the internet, I check out his page shit about Glenn. No, and that's fine. We've been, we've been hard on the guy. It's just when I, when I go into the internet,

I check out his page and it's just like, I wouldn't leave it. Brutal. Yeah. That's like, just brutal. Why are you,

some of the things that people say. Why are they, why is Bachelor Nation so passionate? It's because they watch like, the, I think it's, they feel like they know them. Yeah.

I think it's relatable. It's love. And like you talked about earlier, whether it's someone you root for or against, it's edited like sports. So you, why are people so crazy about their favorite sports team? You're right.

It is like sports because there's even like a playbook, you know, like it's like, they cancel a cocktail party, the quarterbacks get sacked or like whatever else it is. Like, I feel like there really is like within the Bachelor world we have this whole

like all these devices and so they are very good at like creating a sense of like tribalism or like team mentality. The show is edited to trigger its audience. They want them to care.

They don't care if you hate or love it. They just want you to feel something. They don't want you to be disinterested. So even if you hate it you know they don't mind, they just want you to feel something. They don't want you to be disinterested. So even if you hate it, they don't mind it. They want you to feel something. And so when every time we're just like, why did they do this? It's like, that's why. Because you are worked up. So how are people feeling about the degree to which

Rachel is a front runner? Because it seems like she's pretty obviously a front runner. What do we think about like how much like do we think it's like not competitive anymore or are we just like okay I'm not willing to say that because I think well you go. It's too soon because she keeps getting like the like the hero the heroine

at it kind of like where she's just like all this drama I don't know anything about it but what about like in the promo why was Sarah crying on the stairs when he hooked up with all all this drama. I don't know anything about it. But what about like, why was Sarah, in the promo, why was Sarah crying on the stairs when he hooked up

with all three of them? And like, there must be some, I feel like someone else wins. But Clayton did say that Rachel's on. The promo is, be careful what you see and believe.

But there were three girls in it. Wasn't it Rachel? I think it was Rachel and then two brunettes. And I think it's Genevieve and Sarah. Our brains don't work as fast as the editors. I feel like in the next few episodes, we'll see. What's her name?

Unless you take it frame by frame. Susie. And the voiceovers and things like that. I think that we'll see more of the other two frontrunners come up soon. Yeah, I think, well, Rachel getting a group date rose after her big one-on-one. And after not showing a single second of her roast,

they did not show any joke that she made of the roast during the group date. She probably wasn't that funny. Probably wasn't that funny and we want you to like her. I cannot believe that girl said that Mara had a gap between her two.

Yeah, can we talk about like the Sarah-Mara feud? Yeah. That was random. I think it's Mara. Mara. Like Marin between her and Shana. Yeah, can we talk about like the Sarah Mara feud? Yeah. That was random. I think it's Mara. Mara. Like Marinette. Once Shanae leaves,

the reason why I'm annoyed that Shanae's still around is because I'm tired of talking about her and offer, like play devil's advocate because people want me to just roast her.

And I'm tired of all these other women getting protected by shanae because once shanae leaves they will turn on each other and we saw a glimpse of that they basically gave us a nice little preview of what's probably going to happen uh maybe not so much because sarah is a front runner but mara is not they're going to turn Mara crazy and she's going to be the one she could be the one it's going to be

someone you know they're going to turn on each other and they're going to get catty with one another and it won't be like women supporting women yeah like especially

like the gap like Becca and I were saying the gap tooth comment was like really out of pocket how could you like go for someone's appearance out of

nowhere it was no or just go home you thirsty bitch wait was that a joke the funniest part about it I thought that that would be like

a huge like dun dun dun like music but they just like they were like anyways happy that was the funniest part

like they just editing like weird cut off it was crazy like the hash just glazed over no one talked about that

imagine coming home to that like having to make dinner that night I'm really curious because again it's easy to hate someone we're told to hate

no one likes you I don't like you we are recording this out of time don't know what's going on in the Twitter world but I would suspect

that as we've talked about on our Ask Nick episodes, and we've had some people call it and share their stories. Herpes is a very popular and prominent STD that people have. It's something that people live with and it affects their mental health

and far more people have it than people realize and people feel shame. And yet she, I would imagine the herpes community might feel a little upset that they were, if you got a cold sore or got genital herpes the past couple of years and you watch The Bachelor and you see that joke, how does that make you feel? Oh, come on.

Now we're being nipped. I know. I know. I know. We are. And, but just. the bachelor and you see that joke how's that make you feel oh come on now we're being nipped i know i know i know we are and but just i feel like you're gonna get more canceled for the add convo that we had probably but you have it so it's okay i have it there's a new article nick i'm telling you when we do our Ask Nick episodes and we've had a couple different versions of someone calling in

with herpes someone calling in someone who's dating someone with herpes and I'll tell you what those get a lot of responses

from people in that community who are grateful that we are trying to de-stigmatize herpes because a lot of people

live with it it's a real thing I'm just saying I'm-stigmatize herpes because a lot of people live with it. It's a real thing. I'm just saying, I'm really curious how the herpes community will respond to that joke. I do think at least the way she framed the joke was she was like, keeps coming back. So it was at least the reoccurring nature. And obviously it's meant to be an unflattering comparison. At least it wasn't like, you know, disgust her. Like, I don't know. But like, I don't know. Again, I'm not part disgust her like I don't know but like I don't know again I'm not part of that community I don't know

how they're going to feel but I suspect that some of them might not like it any other notable roast moments am I the only one

and again like I'm not this is nothing about defending Sinead but did not anyone else not think that was like a low character moment

for everyone but Susie? Because Susie is the one who pointed out like it's getting really weird. Everyone's just like roasting Sinead who's not here. I thought it was funny to say

I'm really happy to be on Sinead's season of the That was a funny joke. I think that one was okay. I don't know. Is that? No? We're just

I'm just She's easy target. I know. It's low hanging fruit. Exactly. So I don't blame her. I would throw in a Sinead joke too. I'm just… She's easy target. I know. Yeah, it's low-hanging fruit. Exactly. So I don't blame her. I would throw in a Sinead joke too. I'm just saying it's kind of a low character.

I don't know if anyone there, you could be like, you know what? That's… If you had a kid and you found out that they were on the playground making fun of someone,

regardless if they were mean, would that be like… It's a roast. Yeah. I get it. But for someone who's not at the roast. It's the context, though. She had just thrown a trophy.

She's, I don't know. Okay. I'm playing devil's advocate. I know. I'm sure most people will agree with you because of some people, I'm just, I'm not defending her. I just thought, I don't know how two wrongs make a right. I think part of the reason that they were roasting Sinead was because Sinead is someone whose behavior you can make fun of. Like we see that when they tried to make fun of each other,

it was like, you know, like the Mara and Sarah situation. It was like they were- Awkward, yeah. Yeah, they were like roasting each other's appearance, each other's age, fixed things that it's like not cool to see people fight about. So I think with Sinead, part of the reason that she's getting roasted is because she has behavior as opposed to like fixed personal attributes or qualities and it's like a comment it's like a shared bonding they're probably bonding over how much they hate her which like not saying that's

right we're talking about shared bonding I'm just saying it's slippery slope that's like mean girls oh we're shared bonding over I'm not I think it is like mean girl like they're in high school living in a house all I'm saying I'm not talking about Sinead I'm talking about these women on the date Sinead wasn't even on the I'm not talking about Sinead. I'm talking about these women on the date. Sinead wasn't even on the date. They were talking about Sinead, which is the only reason why. And if it was someone else, if it was one of the women

who went home and they were all making fun of her, I would be like, kind of weird to be making fun of someone who's not on the date. That's all.

This is not me defending Sinead, who was incredibly toxic this episode. Thank you. Yeah. Oh my God. Also, that editor

deserves an Emmy for the juxtaposition between yeah first of all she has her own soundtrack that's like vaguely succession-esque you know like it's like she has an awesome villain soundtrack and then also her when she was like I'm nervous and she gives the whole speech she cries and then

instant like ITM of her being like bitches! Exactly. They're funny whoever the editor is. And do you think the whole speech she cries and then instant like ITM of her being like bitches exactly they're funny whoever the editor is and do you think she's that good of an actor kind of honestly I was like

yeah that was a good performance when it was her versus Elizabeth I was rooting for Shanae yeah also every time she's with Clayton she's like very like

and she's hot soft I don't know she's hot so I like want to look at her who's hot Shanae okay

I wish all of her bad moments weren't in ITMs. That's all I'm saying. She has to. That's like her going backstage. ITM backstage. But you would recognize

that when you watch it, it feels like she immediately said that. I want to meet her. I want to bring her in and then we'll all decide after she leaves. I want to meet her. I honestly, I'm in. And then we'll all decide after she leaves. I want to meet her. I honestly, I'm curious myself.

And I don't, she might absolutely be this person we're seeing. I don't know. I am simply suggesting that it might not be quite as bad. But she, it was a bad beat for her. It was a bad episode. She looked real toxic. And she looked like a phenomenal actor. She really did. And I felt, it was a bad episode, she looked real toxic. And she looked like a phenomenal actor. She really did.

And I felt, it was bizarre. She comes and cries and shaking, apologizing. The women, thankfully, I was glad that the women were nice to her. And then she, it looks like she runs to Clayton and goes, I apologized. I'm back in the set. It was like a really weird moment and they awkwardly make out.

Do you think that he likes her? No. You don't think he likes her? No, she wouldn't. If you've been on a two-on-one, the lead doesn't like you. So you think Genevieve is unliked by Clayton?

Again, I use unliked. Yeah, yeah. he likes other people more than Jenna he's not considering them as someone he might end up with and if you end up

on a two in one yeah chances are you're you're not part of his consideration you're part of

the producer you're part of a TV show and no I don't think Clayton i think i think he thinks she's hot i think he likes making out with her but that's this is as far as it goes you know um and yeah genevieve seems super nice and she's attractive and and i i like genevieve's like uh she clearly watches the show. Like, you can tell she's a fan of the show because, like, she immediately knew it was a two-on-one.

And a lot of the women, either they didn't know or pretended not to know. And they're like, what is going on? She's like, it's a two-on-one. And then she's like, well, we're going home. And then she's like, who knows? And then you caught Genevieve, like, having this, like. The fourth wall she broke.

She was like, oh, I mean, or two of us, or one of us. She's like, I'm sounding like I watched this show. Which is like taboo in Bachelor World. You can't know what's going on. Yeah. I thought it was kind of endearing of Genevieve, to be honest. Yeah, I thought that was cute too. Yeah.

And she seems great and likable. And a different Bachelor might be super into her. Do you get more than one suitcase? Because you know how they bring the suitcase down for the two-on-one to- Yeah, they all have multiple suitcases. Because I was like, there is no way, considering the number of cocktail dresses that they have, that that is going in one checked bag.

Of course not. Just like when Jesse Palmer comes out and says, plane leaves in an hour. Of course it doesn't leave in an hour. When you... Okay, one of the cameras. An hour? That's not enough time to get through security. Even pre-covid like I don't

you know that's chaotic an entire are there times when the cameras are off? sure so do you talk about like how you're going to be edited

when you are on the show? sometimes but if you do you'll be made into a villain you can't get you have to did you have any like allies that were like

like actual allies? yeah that's how it works, right? Can you talk about that? I remember I was friends with JJ and Markel on Andy season. Those are the guys. I just didn't feel the need to be the popular kid in the house. So I just found a couple of guys I liked spending time with and talked. And you trusted them.

And I trusted them. And I don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but all my allies got sent home. And as soon as all my allies were gone, the wolves were unleashed on me. Yeah. And maybe that was a coincidence and maybe not. Maybe that was this good TV making, but yeah.

These days I would not, I would not, even if me and Rachel, and I love her, even if me and Rachel were best friends, I would like be so fake to her all the time too. I would be like, I'm here for the right reasons, by the way. Write that down. So yeah, if you talk about the edit, you are seen as someone who cares too much about how they look.

Yeah. And you might just be an inquisitive person who like whose brain thinks that way. I'm just mad. I'm mad that I don't believe in The Bachelor anymore. Sorry, to be dark. Well, Ashley and Jared had a baby. That was after JoJo's season.

Yeah, JoJo's where it ended for me. Watching, though, Clayton and Rachel, though, I was like, I see the photos on their wall. They go in every single year. They have four kids. They get matching outfits like they to me look really like I don't know I felt like couple well that's what I'm saying I think hopefully Becca if nothing else I hope we're here to give you hope is that I believe that Clayton

and my hope for Clayton is that he just has to find it's just like in life or you're only looking for one you know we're out there on your dating apps and all these like people and all the West Elm Caleb's of the world. And like, listen, the good news is all of us, most of us who are looking

for a monogamous relationship are looking for one. And that's all it takes. And the same as The Bachelor is like all these other, like the reason why you love this show is because it is ridiculous. And as an OG fan,

you know that the show loves to have the lead, try to convince the audience that I'm really falling in love with like 13 people. Yeah. Which is insane. With Andy, I believed it. But Andy wasn't into 14 guys.

Yeah. I read her book. Yeah. She's only into you two. Yeah. So like, but at least you two were both real and I couldn't tell who was going to win at the end well that's the thing you only look for two

and I do think the bachelor edit does themselves a disservice by like weirdly trying to ram that down our throats because I do think it makes like it insincere yeah you make your lead insincere by trying to get them to convince us

that they're falling in love with 10 people. You know? It's just, it's bizarre. It's weird. But they'll still exchange it. But then there's like argument for Claire of her being honest. Like, I only like one of these guys,

but still I hated her season two. So I don't know. Claire's a unique soul. Case, yeah. You know? Soul. So yeah. has there ever been a season where you

really think that the lead could not decide between well yeah alright when they've I can't speak for every lead

I just feel like I would know who I liked but I think the vast majority of the leads have a pretty good bet going into hometowns who they're going to pick.

And an even better bet going into fantasy suites. On the first night, did you know you were going to choose Vanessa? Well, I didn't know her, but she was clearly my front runner. You're tight. It was like hers to lose. But I definitely was into like, there was four people, Vanessa being by far and away my favorite and there were four other women that like i don't know but like i could have it was my first date with vanessa that really like solidified it because i had we had a great time i really felt chemistry it was like it was like

a great first date where you get excited about someone and like in bachelor that's all you need yeah and that you can ride off that way forever yeah it's all you you know because you're just your fear is like what if i'm not what if i just think everyone's cool and nice but i don't want to like get engaged you know it's a very scary feeling for for the leads uh so you just you literally ride that wave and then you start like convincing yourself and you start ignoring red flags and again not red flags about their character but your compatibility. Because you're just like,

I don't care. They should have casted more of Vanessa's on your season. More people similar to her. Vanessa would have been the runner-up. Her attitude would have

been very different because she would have gotten, the runner-up gets the least amount of protection. Assuming, especially in a season

where they already wanted Rachel to be their bachelorette. So immediately going, some seasons you're like, we don't know who's going to be our bachelor or bachelorette. So we have to give ourselves some options. So we're going to be careful with how we craft their stories. And when you know who someone's going to be your bachelor or bachelorette, everyone else is just like fair game. So they can pick and choose. Vanessa was the winner. So they did me the courtesy of not sharing some

of her unflattering moments. Moments that like, you know, we're fine. Like we've all had moments we've all had. Do you think that they could have edited if Corinne was like your girl? Do you think that they could have edited her to be the heroin girl? No. Well, see, see, girl no well see see it's so i don't she's the villain you know i got you there why you can't edit it that much i'm glad you're our guest because i feel like you're you are our listener because like i feel like i'm having a hard time articulating to my audience that's what i've always wanted to say to him i am not defending shanae i am pointing out that she is not a monster i'm like one of those angry commenters. I'm kidding.

I'm just saying she's probably more than just this person we're seeing. Okay. And I've gotten to know a lot of the women from my season years later. And even Corinne, I see her differently as a person than I even did on the show.

Because even to me as a bachelor, I didn't see everything. And they were all just kind of like Corinne was outrageous so I saw this outrageous person being outrageous you know still kept her

for a long time yeah and that's not who she is as a person and I'd be willing to bet the question the big question

he did say they couldn't have edited her to be the main character though yeah you did say that and I don't think

I'm just going to remember that you said that I don't think they could have edited Sine her to be the main character, though. Yeah. You did say that. And I don't think... I'm just going to remember that you said that. I don't think they could have edited Sinead to be the hero. Thank you. It's not... Just like the same reason I've always said, when people blame the producers, I don't think Sinead can fully... She can't blame the producers for all this.

Thank you. Oh, my God. Wow. I've never said that. Winif, roll the tape back. I'm just saying, all I wanted you to do was criticize her a little bit.

She is responsible for her ignorant statements and some of her choices. And even if her choice is to listen to everything that's being asked and repeat everything, she knows she is guilty

because she wants attention too. She knows she's getting airtime and she has decided that I will, and the cost of looking bad, and that's on her. You know, that's her too. I just, I can't figure her out. Like, I don't know if she wants the villain edit or not.

My guess. I think she does. My guess is, is that attention is her primary concern. And so, but I- I think that attention is her primary concern. And so, but I think therapy should be her primary concern. Probably.

But, but they have to, you were saying on the last, they have to pass a psych test. Yeah. And also like, maybe we're not in a position

to like question Sinead's mental health. You know what? She is Meryl Streep. Maybe she's acting. Maybe she was acting. Who are your final four? Rachel.

I think Gabby's fourth and then teddy's gone i think suzy and what's the other girl sarah yeah i don't know i think it's rachel suzy sarah i was right yeah you might be i called it i said teddy is not there's still a chance we're still pretty early on there's still a lot of women left. I just don't like her vibe. I'm not into it. Okay. Can we talk about,

sorry, very, very quickly Hunter. We never see her. And the homegirl's getting rose after rose. She's one of the blondes. She is one of the blondes. I don't know what else to say about her because we've never seen her on screen,

but she keeps getting roses. She had a little ITM moment this episode. I think that's the first time I ever heard her speak. Yeah, and we noticed her. She must go home next week. Which is why and why do we know about Elizabeth?

That's kind of my point. You know, because she's a work she you know, Hunter decided to just be like, you know what,

I'm just going to be here and if he likes me, great. And if not, I'll just stick around until I go home. And Hunter is someone who chose to go on the show

and just take what comes and be fine with it. And that's why to put this all on a nice little bow and end the show, why Elizabeth is no different than, she maybe just was smarter and far more polished and thoughtful in her approach, but still outed herself on social media is that Elizabeth came for the attention.

I mean, the amount of work she put in that promo. I know. And the lack of self-awareness. She spent like money on, she probably rented out a studio. 100% she rented out a studio. Oh my God. Who helped her with that?

She probably did that very, you can do that, other than the studio, she probably had a gown, she bought some roses, and she has a friend who knows how to edit a video. It's not that hard.

Oh no, but that's a lot of steps. She thought about that for a couple of days before she did that. Oh my God, from the moment she got kicked off the show

till her exit, not even thinking like, I'm going home week three. No one's going to care. Why did you do that? What camera am I one's gonna why did you do that what camera am I looking at why did you do that I want an explanation and it's not your ADD I don't like that attention she did it for attention which is fine but Hunter is someone who is this maybe there for the experience open to finding love and. And Clayton's not into her.

And she's just, you know what? This is silly. I'm not going to insert myself. And she's going to gracefully go home. She's like a normal human. And cheers to Hunter. We see you, Hunter. And we want to know that you're an unproblematic.

Hunter's the unproblematic queen of the season. Not Elizabeth. Yeah. Elizabeth has villain and energy. There can only be one unproblematic person on The Bachelor. We're all team Hunter. We all agree that Elizabeth, there's a world where she could be super villain. Yeah.

Yeah. I really hope Rachel wins, but I don't know if they'll last and I also really want to believe The Bachelor again so I don't know

it makes me sad to like I just I loved it so much when I believed it and like I wanted to I couldn't tell who was gonna win I don't know

do you think if Clayton ends up with Rachel or someone else I think they break up I don't think he's how old is he? 20? 20, late 20s nah they break up. I don't think he's, how old is he? 20? 20, late 20s?

Nah, he has, I don't know. Whatever happens down the road, is there a world where Clayton can, Redeem himself? Yeah. Or just show you that,

Yes. There is one or two women that he like, truly hopes this works and like, wants to fight. Yeah. And,

I want him to show his funny, I heard him be funny like, three or four times. I want him to show his funny I heard him be funny like three or four times I want him to be funnier on camera and I want to not know who's going to win

at the last like I want him to really try to decide between two women I heard the endings in Alzheimer really

that's all I've heard they say that every I've heard like not like Jesse Palmer or Chris Harrison said I've heard from the people making the... I've heard, not like Jesse Palmer or Chris Harrison said, I've heard from

the people making the show that they are... Okay, we've seen every variation. We've seen the lead go back. I don't know if it's going to be new. I'm just... I just heard that they are, in fact,

thrilled. Really? And if that... Do you think that he ends up engaged? I don't know. I think... None of them really get engaged. I think't know. I think I think None of them really get engaged I think yes

because I think he has been a very easy bachelor to work with. Because he didn't go the whole season so he's so lucky. He feels lucky. Yeah.

And that's been used against him. So I have a little sympathy for Clayton in that regard. I think Jesse Palmer is our new host for like ever.

I think he's doing a good job and you don't want to know why i say that it's because like he's the one it's his voice asking if you know or a guy or a girl who might want to date our next bachelor or bachelorette uh yeah and it was caitlin and taisha it was like some random fucking voiceover yeah and now it's jesse palmer and not once have they made him watch people streak. Becca. What? Thanks so much for coming. Yeah.

What a great... Oh my God, this is like my dream come true. It's like my Met Gala, I'm telling you. I think people will really appreciate you. I'm sorry to everyone I offended on you. No, you really resonated with many of our audience of you questioning my double advocacy but yeah i've seen the comments on your video someone agrees with me out there plenty of people agree with you and all

i want like upvoting and to be totally transparent all i want for the high audience thank you for listening everyone agree or disagree i just hope that you care and i hope that clearly i do because i'm i hope that I've you know giving you something to discuss with your friends you can hate me for it's fine I do think let's

just try to enjoy this show we don't have to hate anyone and we can root for people and I guess that's all I'm saying and thanks for listening tomorrow Rachel Lindsay don't miss that next week Greg and Andrew S breaking down The Bachelor and more hot takes from them or maybe not

hot takes from them hopefully they can keep up with your hot takes I'm sorry if I get canceled but I guess I'm just a TikToker you can't really cancel anything why do you think you're going to get canceled if the Bachelor people get mad at me but I'm not in Bachelor world so I can say whatever I want without like not getting invited to things

you disagreed with me and I think that we'll go a long way yeah I think you're going to be good I do disagree with you on a lot of things great

that's why I'm not interested in everyone agreeing with me yeah I mean are you that I don't know sometimes I feel like you want everyone to be on your side now of not interested in everyone agreeing with me. Yeah. I mean, are you that? I don't know. Sometimes I feel like you want everyone to be on your side now. Of course I like people agreeing with me.

But I wouldn't say things that I know people. I often start the show looking for an angle. Because, listen, you can't blame the producers of the show for everything. But the show is trying to tell a story. I see what you're saying. It's just annoying. It's not fun to just. It is fun to like,

if they're characters, it's fun to be like, ha ha ha. But you are always like reminding us like, I don't know. Yeah. I'm reminding that maybe we shouldn't always. Yeah. It's boring when you do that sometimes.

Fair enough. I'll take that note. Thanks for listening, guys. Whether you agree or disagree, send your questions at asknickatcastbe.com

cast with a K for Ask Nick episodes or mediation calls on our Wednesday episodes. We'll see you tomorrow with the wonderful Rachel Lindsay. Follow back up.

Come on. I'll take that. Thank you.