The Viall Files - E38 Spank Bank of Your Wife with Tanner Tolbert

Episode Date: August 28, 2019

Today we’re joined by The Bachelor’s Tanner Tolbert for his first podcast interview without his wife, Jade. We hash out the Demi/Kristian debate face-to-face and discuss the enigma that is JPJ. Then we get into fatherhood, and Tanner gives some tips on how to keep the spark alive amidst dirty diapers and crying newborns. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode! Donate to Nick’s campaign for The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation: https://finest.cff.org/walkthepurplecarpet/nickviall THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: MANSCAPED: http://manscaped.com Code: VIALL MYRO: http://mymyro.com/VIALL Code: VIALL FRANK AND OAK: http://frankandoak.com/viall BEST FIENDS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/best-fiends-puzzle-adventure/id868013618 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to another episode of Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick. Thanks for tuning in. It's just me today. Rochelle is babysitting or on vacation. I'm not sure. Sugar as well. So it's just going to be me. It's going to be fine. It's going to be great. We have my good friend Tanner in studio. Uh, it's a great episode. We obviously get into and talk about, uh, our difference of opinion with, uh, paradise and the structure and all the, the Demi stuff. But I think it's a good rich dialogue. We'll probably stop talking about it after this, but we get into just, uh, the structure of the show and then in our opinions and then a really interesting conversation with Tanner about fatherhood, what it's been like

for him and Jade and their relationship and their sex life. It's been really fascinating. So I think you're going to really enjoy it. I know I did. But before we do, just a friend of a reminder that we are raising money for cystic fibrosis with a foundation that Rochelle and I are part of. Well, Rochelle got me into it. Rochelle's sister is suffering with the ailment of cystic fibrosis. And it's a fascinating story, a great story, in the sense that her diagnosis, her prognosis, rather, was fairly bleak in terms of how long she would be with us. But she still is, and she's a doctor.

And it's not possible without the funding and research that goes into this terrible disease. So as always, feel free to donate what you can. We'll put a link to the foundation in the bio of the podcast. As always, every little bit helps. We always appreciate your donations and thoughts and curing this terrible disease. With that being said, Tanner, my good friend,

coming up next. Tanner. Nick. How are you? I'm well. How are you, buddy? Thanks for coming, buddy. Hey, thanks for having me. Before we kick things off, I want to slow roll our listeners in here. I feel like they're starting their morning with us you know let's not let's not get into us fighting right away yeah we'll give it time give it a moment um have you ever done a podcast without jade um no well not without jade no jade has always been a part of it she let's be real she's the star of the show i get it i'm like her sidekick she's batman 100 i'm like robin's little brother and when i when i first thought to have you guys on, I thought of having the two of you. Sure. Right?

Let's talk about the happy couple, marriage and relationships. I predominantly have had only women as guests on my show. You are the third straight male guest on my show. I feel very honored. I don't know if I feel honored but yeah it's not pretty good and then you had to go pick a fight with my friend demi i know and then i thought to myself you know what i think i'm just gonna have tanner on without jade and maybe we'll totally have jade on yeah well she's willing i think i'm gonna have jade without you if that's okay with you

honestly it's probably better when we're when we're together we just you know we say the same thing more honest responses. 100%, because we've done the whole, hey, how was married life? How was the kids thing together? Talk a zillion times. So it kind of worked out. But I've talked a lot about my desire to be a dad.

I've half given up on marriage, but still want to have kids. How would you go about that then? What do you mean no marriage have kids would you just like adopt uh i mean that's an option i would like ideally if i'm able to have uh kids uh the old-fashioned way in the sense of and then just like have co-parenting or would you try to like set something up like a surrogate where you just keep a kid yourself i mean i'm joking i would like to raise a child with someone okay um but you know there's all sorts of yeah maybe there is a co-parenting situation you know i don't know um how many kids would you want because you're one of like how many like 10 one of one of 11

i'm like uh i don't i mean let's start with one and go from there I mean ideally god bless your mom I don't know I'm just getting settled in with two and whoo and you're still technically be able to play a man-to-man defense yeah you haven't you don't have to play a zone no not yet but yeah we'll get into to that because I'm you know we do get a lot of questions from our callers about how the relationship changes with with kids uh how to keep the spark going so to speak so i'd love uh your your take on that but before we do okay honestly what the fuck i don't the demi thing so here's how the demi thing started on my and i love demi on colton season i was i vocal about that. I think she's amazing TV.

She's part of your brand in terms of just kind of say what you feel. I love her. And then I made a tweet because the whole girlfriend back home thing, there's a few layers to it. We can do the whole he said, she said for as long as we want, but I know for a fact that it was planned before the show. There definitely was conversations about the possibility of bringing christian on that much we know sure and so i'm kind of operating under that truth

uh in terms of what happened i mean you know that the show i mean you were on it right like the what we talked about on the show is the producers definitely are very good at staging situations and then letting it play out sure right i mean they certainly try to lead us down paths at times but there's no guarantee there's no plan they don't know that um it's never happened where you're going to do this you're going to date them and you're going to leave engaged 100 they may said they try to set the table, but they always let you eat. Sure. Okay. I guess this time, I think it was as close to as them feeding you what you wanted. See, that's where I disagree. I mean, so I guess what's so hard... And you're getting

this information from, I'm assuming, other people in Bachelor Nation. Correct. Yeah. And you don't think for... think all those people are are getting firsthand knowledge from producers and demi and it's there's no disconnect within the telephone game so i guess there's no jealousy in terms of the quality of airtime that she might be getting in the attention she's getting i guess is how did i hear about it in may when a i don't talk to demi i don't i don't i didn't know she had a girlfriend even. How am I hearing that Demi is going to go on Paradise, leave the show, engaged or not engaged with this person at the end? Again, even to leave the show, you don't think that might be

misinformation or assumed on the part of the person you're hearing it from. I think it's safe to assume that it's not surprising that if there was going to be the first gay relationship, that's going to create a buzz, especially even within the family of all our alumni of chatting and the fact that they might plan on bringing someone on. Is it that surprising that that rumor would get spread pretty quickly? No, it's not surprising at all. No, it's not surprising at all. I just, I guess we're just on opposite side of the fence on what we believe. Cause I heard from a very reliable source that Demi told directly that that was the plan and to be ready for it afterwards. I've become good friends with Demi. She's pretty open with me about a lot of things. I was aware that she was dating someone. I was aware that there were discussions. She was pretty transparent with me. She never told me about some, some plan. She told me about

a, like, I don't know. And like, Demi is really honest with me. So this is not like Demi was like kind of telling me one thing to another. So unless you heard it from Demi or like one of the show runners who I also had conversations with about like, I'm just there again. Like, I think it's easy. It's really easy for someone to hear like, Oh yeah, they're going to come on. And then people to like add their little bit of like things they didn't actually hear. Like, well, they're going to leave engaged.

Like, I don't mean we know, first of all, we don't know how it's going to play out. Right. I guess I wish I could just also, I wish I could explain my reasoning and my source and how real is how reliable it was. I don't want there. They're're not i don't want to drag them into this um but okay let's say for minus getting in the weeds of that let's assume you're right okay who cares i do why because i was a big fan of the show even before I went on. I think while it is great that the show is raising awareness and I do applaud Demi for her bravery,

I think the moment that you start toying with the whole scripted, not, you know. Well, I mean, again, scripted implies that there are words that we're being told to say. Staged implies that there's situations that are created for us to have authentic conversations in okay very okay we'll say we won't say scripted we'll say very staged i think the moment you you bring in very very staged situations it takes away how genuine the show can be and i think that's i think that's scary whether it's on the bachelor i'm a big survivor fan if i found out that someone someone was telling the producers were basically telling someone where the hidden immunity aisles were i would lose interest in the show completely i don't think that's what the show was designed to

do and i and i i always err on the side of honesty and i don't feel like they were being honest the show wasn't or demi i mean again i i i can confidently like, I just don't get this whole, like, what is, there's not much different than all the other, like, if you want to get on board with, like, again, the Blake and Hannah and all that stuff, which is, it's not the same show when you first went on. Like, social media is what it is. All these people are moving to LA.

They're all meeting. They're going to stagecoach. They're having sex. They all have these preexisting relationships. The notion that everyone's going to go down and meet for the first time and we're going to see if there's chemistry between them is just not the reality anymore. Why do you think that is though? Because we had social media.

I mean, I could have slid into Jade's DMs. Sure, but it's not what it was. Also, Paradise was so new. It was the second season. I think everyone kind of lived under this operation of fear. We didn't want to get themselves in trouble. People weren't all moving out to LA. It's just a different network of people doing different things.

Now, there's this perceived playbook, and everyone's got these social media agents, and they're all trying to... I totally so there's i totally agree with you there i guess what i'm saying getting in the weeds of again all we know is that demi uh was dating someone in not an exclusive relationship and i i'm totally i can agree with you that there was discussions about possibly bringing her on i i think when you start saying we're going to definitely, like, we know for a fact that the producers are very good at audibling. Our season, they canceled hometowns.

They had me show up four weeks in when there was no plan for me to show up when the season started all i'm saying is they can have a plan to maybe bring christian on that doesn't mean that was going to happen she could have fallen for derrick that's not unlikely and they to say that the producers aren't prepared for anything is disingenuous knowing what we know because they truly are. They may think this is probably going to happen, but people do go rogue. People, and they will adapt the most organic story that they have. And I just think in this situation, you can still say that happened, even if we're like, hey, listen, if she's dating someone and she wants to date her, we're going to try to have

the first openly gay relationship. And then if she comes down here, would it be great if the workout, would it be great if they leave together? Would we like that? Sure. But I mean, is it that hard to believe that Christian could show up and it'd be an absolute clusterfuck with someone who's not familiar with the surrounding? And then Demi's just like, I don't know. I'm panicking.

I don't know if I really... That's totally possible. And they would have played that. If they wanted to showcase this, the relationship, I wish they would have just cast Christian from day one and just be more transparent. Why? Because as a viewer, it's felt very...

How would they have told that story? I mean, I'm saying they're storytellers. I just don't get... I mean, again, it is a TV show tv show i mean i know you're a die hard survivor fan a die hard bachelor fan and you are i like you are speaking from a fan point of view i totally get that but can't we just like support like a like there's no other way to probably do this in within bachelor nation to have an openly gay relationship unless the producers completely luck out and accidentally

cast two men or two women who are bisexual and then those two people mutually are attracted to each other because there's no guarantee that they would be attracted to each other if they were in fact bisexual so like lauren aria kennedy came on when on your season when you were in fact bisexual. So like Lauren Iaconetti came on on your season when you were in J.D. and Tanner. Was that like the end of the day? They had that planned out. Right, but a relationship wasn't planned from it, I guess. I mean, again, producers have ideas of who's liking who.

We all, original cast, even we all get asked questions at the beginning of the season. Who do you like who you're going for some people have talked some people haven't what is really the difference when people are like again people have plans and they didn't have plans hannah thought she's gonna get engaged to blake when she walked into the season right she probably wanted to and thought it was that was her plan that's why they hung up and it didn't work out and how many times the producers hear plans and fuck with that plan for the sake of good tv i guess i just wish there weren't plan maybe i'm old school maybe that's the whole problem i also think you

are being a little naive to assume that never was to happen that we all have our own little ideas or little plans and our hopes that we want right and the producers have never gone into any season ever without some sort of plan again they're always incredibly flexible sure all right things change but when they cast every season they're like they have guesses who's going to be their hero who do they think it might be a potential bachelor who do they think is going to be their villain that can change but it's this is not a coin flip. It's a TV show. It's a multi-million dollar TV show. They're not flipping coins into seeing what happens

and relying on organic chemistry to create TV. And we could talk about this until we're blue in the face. At the end of the day, it becomes a he said, she said. I'm not going to out my source. We'll be on different sides. I'm just more. But that's one that's one part of the of the problem okay so the plan thing that was my biggest issue was the secondary

issue is do you think it's a little hypocritical if demi was dating a guy back home would this situation be treated the same or do we need to just turn a blind eye to that yeah i mean again my point is is that this is i mean i know you're an open-minded person right right so it has nothing to do with whether you're pro-gay relationship or not i know that you are right uh and some of these things like progress sometimes you have to force change i mean again i don't necessarily think the bachelor franchise is responsible for like progressive change in our society but it's because they are a staple of pop culture it's good that they are willing to do those things and share share that thing so like i mean there is no there is no rules in paradise where did they have where did this

golden rule of chris harrison coming down from the mountain and with a tablet written in stone all the things can and can't happen in the bachelor franchise well so there are exceptions to every rule and yes if demi i i'll say this much about your scenario if the producers thought it would be good tv they would do it at the end of the day that's all that matters so that's my problem with i think as a show they're a little hypocritical if you remember from my paradise season joe bailey never even met samantha and got roasted and death threats and all kinds of hate from the world from producers for just sliding in a dm the show changes i get but now demi can have a actual human

relationship back home whether it's a guy female, female, and everyone is supposed to just be cool with it. I wrote a poem and gave someone flowers and was told I was strategic and creepy, and some other guy does it, and he's the most romantic. I mean, again, that's music they're playing. That's a story they're telling within the season. And that was the point I was trying to make from one tweet, and it blew up to this entire thing. I was just simply stating the fact, huh, that's the whole that was just that was the point i was trying to make from one tweet and it blew up to this entire thing i was just simply stating the fact huh that's weird other people have done this and gotten roasted for it demi can do it and everyone thinks she's

the queen every every situation is different and i go back to demi was honest with producers and you know that that's really all you really need to do when you get caught lying to producers and cast members you get in trouble and joe lied to both sure and that's how he got put in that corner that he did none of this stuff is a real crime right no not at all everyone has the freedom to do what they want i just but it comes down to that and i just think like uh as someone who has a young gay sister and they're portraying a gay relationship in a very positive light i think that's a great thing and i'm really less worried about the uh righteousness of i also paradise yeah i also think it's a great thing i know you do i'm

just worried you're just such a diehard fan i am i just want to watch something that is completely as unscripted as possible i get that it will be made it's never completely unstaged or storylines the bachelor is so unscripted relative to other reality tv shows that we are aware of but it is staged and that's okay because they have to conclude otherwise it would just be a free for all and it wouldn't be compelling I guess this is this storyline is just the most staged thing I think the show has ever done I would disagree but I don't

and even if you're right who cares right well that would you have okay like do you we can probably agree whether it's going to be Mike or sometime that the show is due for a uh black bachelor 100 right are would you have do you have a problem uh with the knowing that as the result of the show it's a dating show it is about love and so it's uh with the format of uh

casting someone from a previous season to be the next lead. You know, it's the farm system of the show. Do you have a problem if the lead and the producers are, you know, let's say the lead is not necessarily super into someone, but they're like, you know what? I want to bring this person along because I really think that they have bachelor potential. And they give them group date roses and first impression roses, and they bring them all the way to hometowns.

And they never really thought they were going to pick them but they really respected them and liked them and maybe there was someone else they were more physically attracted to and would like to make out with more than someone else but they weren't you know like and in the real world in the most authentic world that's what they would and do you have a problem with the show or the lead bringing someone further than they otherwise would because they think have a problem with the show or the lead bringing someone further than they otherwise would because they think it's good for the show and they need to bring someone and tell their story so they can make them the bachelor? I think I have a small problem.

In a perfect world, I wish that as you as the, you should know this is better than anybody. You as the lead, I wish it was completely up to Nick and how the dominoes fell, the dominoes fell. I think. No, you don't as a tv fan i'm telling you you you actually don't because it'd be worse tv i guess you really don't i will say that it is the show they never make you send people home that you think you could see yourself with and they will let you vet out every relationship that you have that you need to vet out to pick the right person that is true sure

i guess just producing while the show is going on is their job what i what i didn't like with the situation is in my opinion i feel like the production happened before the show even began i think the planning had begun and i think that plays out on our tv screens i mean i'll i'll be all the craziness with that one tweet and all the press that got, and then Demi clapping back at me. 95% of comments have been, you're 100% right, I feel like it's fake.

I think it bleeds through our TV screen a little bit. I think they're doing a disservice. I don't like it using social media as a scientific poll because if you look at Demi's, you just probably can see the other side of it. One more point I want to bring up though. i was team demi all the way along i made one tweet i actually deleted it after like five minutes because i was like i was like i don't want to die on that hill i'm happy for demi and let's just move on and then press ran with it the next day

that's how this whole thing even began but demi's clap back to me another reason i think she's hypocritical. Okay? Yeah, but... And let me go here. Put yourself in her shoes. But this is what she says. Oh, fuck off. That's not the same at all.

Let me teach you something about going down on your wife. A woman that wants to be an advocate for awareness and those type for sexual preferences is now making fun of me for my sexual preferences it's insane to me so the reason she got that me and jade did marriage boot camp a few years ago it got brought up that i didn't at the time enjoy performing oral sex what oh my god really so do you think she knew that yes that's the only reason she said it. Yes. So that came up. It's on like Reddit boards and stupid stuff from the marriage boot camp days.

So that was my personal preference for my previous relationship. I didn't enjoy it with my ex. I'm fine with Jade now. Our sex life is fine. I assure you. But she is trying to throw low blows at my sexual preference but then if what do you mean sexual like your taste and yeah and my activity but now but now i am supposed i just feel like it's super super hypocritical for someone that wants the world to be open about

sexual preferences her first response to me is attacking my sexual activity i mean i i'm not i'm not saying that's okay and i'm not saying and i'm sure demi probably was you know frustrated and angry put yourself in her shoes and i'm not defending the words but uh a bachelor in paradise certainly uh legend i'll you know like you the alumni when they i mean new cast members always look at alumni and before they were stars in the current season they looked at us and a lot of them watched us and followed us fans of us and you get that a lot and then here you have someone and imagine like for all the attention she's getting that's positive she's getting a lot of criticism and the stuff that's

not her fault or whether the show and like here's this young woman who's doing this and you were in it it's hard for us it's hard for people and we can be snarky and i we snark and for the people when you're on the other end it can be really tough it's even harder now with social media and what it is i'm just saying to hear that from you and then have like the godfather of paradise with the the you know the first real marriage in paradise shows some criticism and gets picked up by tabloids she gets defensive she's hurt she's worried like and she claps back i'm not defending what she said but like man it's she's in a tough position right now and like i think we're probably getting into the

weeds like was it a low blow sure i don't think she was really thinking about your she was definitely it was a it was a pope it was defensive also like you're not that sensitive no i'm fine i know you're fine i can take anything i'm just i'm simply stating i think that's another reason she's been a little hypocritical during all this i would love to chat with her about face to face We've all been hypocritical at times. But I think I probably hit a nerve and she was defensive because it was true. And I think that's why when people clap back like that, it's usually because they're backed into a corner and they know they know that it's true. And I mean, I just because Clay tweeted something about me being on the show seven times. I saw that back and he i wasn't on

seven times i mean i guess what i'm saying is it's especially when uh current cast members get criticism from alumni i think it stings a little harder and i think they get a little bit more defensive true or not about some of the feedback and again it's all a matter of perspective you we like you and i can get in the weeds about like what happened to me i don't think i my i'm my argument it doesn't really matter because you're still seeing an authentic relationship played out on tv regardless of sure what the intentions and i personally think that's a good thing that is really my only argument i don't really care about the rest and i think all this other stuff is just counterproductive to like just it being an overall positive thing

i sometimes do get surprised with our society about wasting energy about things that don't ultimately matter i know you're a passionate tv fan i know you like the show but bigger picture right i feel like we could all just chill out and and not be so righteous about like technicalities because the truth is every season is different and like there's gonna be a level i mean you as a fan i'm telling you you don't want it as authentic as you think you do because you think it'll be less or more boring and it doesn't take away from how authentic it is, but there has to be some structure.

Otherwise, it's just the Wild West, man. Otherwise, if it was really authentic to the way that you want it, every season, the lead would send everyone home but four week two. Because you know that. And they would spend all their time with the two of them.

Right. That's what would happen. I guess that wouldn't make good TV. So, I'm just saying, like, people are just... No, you're making good points. I guess, just as a fan, I wish it was... I wish I could believe what I was seeing on TV 100%. I think the whole Derek Demme thing was just a little bit more of a pawn play.

I think Derek really liked Demme. No, I think Derek honestly did. maybe i think derrick really liked that no i think derrick honestly did and i think demi really liked derrick and i think she was caught off guard by how much she liked him so someone sent me a dm too this is just another no no i do have a little bit of a problem with like all these dms that go on between people inside bachelor nation and us like it's a little like reality steve like i have my sources and i'm not saying you don't but it's just it's all a matter of perspective bachelor nation is a fucking high school and it's a lot of like uh people trying to keep other people it's all a rat race and a competition of all the things that are going on and i think everyone has an angle when it comes to spreading rumors.

And, and I don't know, I just, I kind of have a problem with that. Well, that, that wasn't, I agree with that part of it,

but that was when I was getting at. So someone, so Derek on his podcast basically said that he had met Christian back in January. Okay. Do you think that's weird? A coincidence that he was neighbor? So I guess Catherine Argo is Catherine was on Colton. That's how Demi and her and Matt.

Apparently, Catherine lives like right next door to Derek. Do you think it's weird that Demi ended up going after the guy? I think that's a coincidence. It just seems a little odd if Derek actually. I mean, I guess I don't know. Yeah. But at the same time, I don't think Derek's that good of an actor so if you're saying that was somehow part of this whole thing i don't know then derrick is a really good actor and he was

in it the whole time and i i i'm i mean i guess i don't know that for sure i would i really i'm that would be the biggest kept best kept secret and the best acting performance by derrick of all time and i also know that like, it's just, yeah, I just know it's not true by like some of the post-show things and communication and conversations I've had with Derek and Demi.

It would just be, so you're, what I'm saying, because you're kind of implying like they met and this whole thing was orchestrated. I'm not saying that at all because I don't know. No,

but like. No one told me that. I'm just saying that's another weird wrinkle. If it's not a coincidence. Yeah. Yeah, but like, again, we, they all meet and we all hang out

and it's a small world. And I just, I don't know. I just think we're getting a little too detective-y and I don't know. I have a bigger problem with all this other stuff that's going on and it's no better or worse. I agree. I'm actually more annoyed that the

fact that blake and like hannah g went to fly and meet a week before like like this demi thing that i made one comment about just got like all the press and attention but you you doubled down you kept like and i know like you good at making an argument and you uh you are you you are you will you have conviction which i love about you and you're like why you were always cool with me when we went on the show is that like you you're not a follower right i get that something bothers me i'm gonna speak my mind about it but you just kept it well when she responds with let me teach you how to go down on your wife i'm like you know what i'm not done with this i'm gonna i'm gonna go a little further she threw a little gasoline in my

fire i was disrespected by that a little bit even though it didn't affect me and like bother me to my core i'm just like someone's gonna respond with that let's go and i again we're on different sides of the fence that he said she said i believe to know what i know is true and you do as well um and we'll probably honestly never knew no never know because demi's really the only one that truly knows my argument is none of that for me that none of that matters and i wish i wish uh for the fans like yourself who are diehard tv fans who uh are open-minded uh would would just chill out about the tv sure and because i we, I think we've proven over the past 30 minutes, we don't really know. We can get in the weeds about comparing situations.

We all like, and I can tell you like, it is an authentic show. It is not scripted. It has to have some structure and they sometimes have to create storylines. So when you feel like they maybe are high, aren't hiding as well as they do some other times, the storylines, just sit back and enjoy the show. And if you can't like that storyline, there's still other storylines.

There's JPJ. He's losing his mind at a wedding. Yeah, he's proving to be... Are you team JPJ or not? I'm team weirdo and interesting person, of which he is. Right. I think he is entertaining. I do think he is entertaining i do think

he's a little bit of a psychopath if if what they're portraying is true he's a little uh i always like to look at like how much do you think is edited versus not yeah it's so hard to say unless you were there and so much of that but like man it's i think this is just him yeah uh and i think all these things like like how do you edit around him? Like this is not voiceover stuff, right? This is him. It's multiple scenes too. It's not like one weird scene.

The camera on him, him losing his shit. Here's the thing about the JPJ. I think this episode is the peak of the show showing their youth. Specifically when it comes to the men, is that the show has gotten younger over the past couple of seasons with casting Colton and Hannah, right? A lot of people have said,

oh, it's gotten really young. And interesting enough, on Hannah's season, you had a lot of good young men who were like, you know, young or not, you know, Tyler and Peter and Mike. Mike's 31. Right. But they've proven to be mature.

They've proven to seem to be mature. But we both know within the Bachelor, Bachelor franchise, you see silos and you actually get very limited of people's personalities. Not to take anything away from them, but there's more of a structure in the bachelorette in the bachelor playbook so like tyler like great guy you know i kind of tease the fact that like he just showed up and complimented hannah right he just kept doing that right it's kind of same with peter and they kind of let luke be the total asshole and everyone looked awesome as it compared against luke right but i'm bachelor in paris it's more of the free-for-all right they're more willing to see sides and then you have this environment where you have these 24 Dylan's 24 JP Chase 24 24 25 year old guys right uh competing for these women and these women like Tayshia some of them are a year two three years older than them and they're like and I think about when you were 24 i think i watched a show and i think about being

24 and like look at tyler tyler america's you know sweetheart but lately he's getting a lot of criticism for being kind of soft and just being like dude you're obsessed and for what and like every scene he's hanging on hannah like you every time you know that check-in you know like you and jade got it's like all right we know they're together they're not really compelling right now we'll get to them later in the season so like every episode we'll just remind you that they're in a relationship and you'll see a quick beat and it's like hannah caring dylan right you know like it's just you know so like he's just a little puppy dog but that's what it is it's like puppy dog love he's he had you know and i think that's you see his youth of just like he's he you kind of have this um uh he's very uh what's the word i'm i'm looking for uh they're all just very serious about it right they they'll they're

the mentality is i'll do anything for love all in the name of love right and they haven't had that relationship experience to realize that there's many different types of love yeah right and so you see the this dylan is this like he's just got this puppy dog love and he's like to him and in a way it is kind of noble to fight for the girl you want and regardless of how she treats you um and that's dylan then you have jpj who's this kind of like again still this this kind of this i think it's the same mentality i mean he's still a little crazy but right it's still in this notion of he thinks he's got it convinced that derrick is not bad guy bad guy he's shitting on podcast oh i know by the way i like dean's little plug for

his podcast right yeah i was, that is great, Dean. It was so good. But yeah, he's really got it up for Derek for some reason. And probably there's like this, I feel like there's this like young versus old, like divide in Bachelor Nation a little bit. Totally. But when you were in real life, when you were 24. Oh, wow.

Right? 21, 22. And you had female friends. And if any of the girls in your group or extensive group or even some girl you knew or a girl you had a crush on and you found out she was dating a 29 year old, what'd you think of that guy? Oh, douche. Yeah. Creepy. Creepy. Dude, 29. 29 year old. You thought he was just like the old guy? Really? And I'm like, he could have been 27 and you were 24.

He could have been just three years older. And you were like, really? You're going to go with that old guy? He can't get anyone his age? Yeah, why is he not married yet? He must have issues. Young men were, I was such a hater of such any guy who was like a little bit older than like me. And then when the women my age, because when you're younger and you're a guy, you kind

of just date women your age. You know, you you can't go you really don't go much younger because when you're 19 there's you know and it's just you know you have that weird and when you're 21 there's that kind of weird part in your life where because of like the drinking age you know granted people go to the bars when they're younger right but it's kind of like well i can't really date someone who can't go to the bar right so you kind of just date with in relative to your age range and maturity level 100 and then as you get older it kind of expands but if you're a young guy you are such a hater and to your point i think uh you're seeing that because within bachelor nation yeah with on social media i think all the guys hate us oh 100 it feels that way anyway yeah

like some of the the women are you feels that way anyway yeah like some of the women are you know they've gotten to know some of the alumni like i've become good friends with especially demi and i've become really close friends and i've met some of the other women through demi and they're all nice and i've had anna on she's nice i don't really know hannah that well um but i haven't really met you know like peter and tyler i've gotten to know and really nice guys uh but the guys i haven't known and then i'm critical of some of their friends just i like yeah i feel like you can feel that they hate us and i think a lot of has to do because they're thinking they're sending back be like just go away you old old has been yeah but there is that there is like a weird competition with the within

bachelor nation because especially with all this has been but it don't it's getting more and more with all more social media stuff and then relationship stuff after the show opportunities so i feel like people are just super like catty but you don't you think more i think it's i think that has always been the case yeah i mean i got i think it's just grown i guess it's grown because it's you know it's the social it's again it's this more visibility on uh but like you know yeah that's always been the case in terms of all the spoilers and the people who go out and reach out to people who like spoilers you know there's always and it's you know you know how it is and again uh when i met you you know when we met you were always like tanner was one of the first people that kind of Tanner was my first roommate when I showed up that's true Tanner was one of the first people

like when no one wanted to room with you yeah the intruder you were you were the creepy old guy from a previous season at the time everyone was kind of our age though Ben was that's the thing Ben was 26 and considered like a baby but like most of the people that season we were all kind of relative the same age I was just I was even I was the old guy by proxy of like the previous season right um tanner was always just really you were you were cool uh open-minded uh you were curious i always wondered though were you doing that because you were were you kind of being a spy for like for the show you mean or even for yourself yeah for myself were you like i'm gonna be nice to this guy and i'm gonna see if i can friend him up to see if yeah i didn't know i'd actually still be talking to you here like four or five years later and we'd

actually be friends but yes i just wanted to get um you know like frenemies i wanted to get behind enemy lines a little that was my initial reaction with you i felt that yeah and i was like you know i'm just gonna i'm not gonna find anything out if i just don't talk to him and just leave him in the corner i want to you know pander a little bit i i'm i like a little gossip i like to pander i like to yeah a lot of gossip and that that's how that's that's how i roomed with you at At what point? We remember when we were in Dublin and we went walking and they shared that? Yeah. Was that sincere or were you still spying on me? I got sincere that week.

Okay. Because as we all know, it was Team Nick versus Team Sean. And like 90% of the house was Team Sean. I was one of the few that was like, you know what? I think Nick is actually the better, more real person right now. But we don't need to get into the whole Sean thing. Sure. I mean, yeah.

Well, Jared was team Sean. Ben was team Sean. Yeah. It was, yeah. But yeah, you were always very, very cool to me that way. And I think to that point, the reason I bring that up is going back to the competition in Bachelor Nation that you find is it didn't matter to you that I was the perceived villain at the time. Because for most people, it does. Most people don't want to align themselves.

Right. They don't want to take pictures with them. If you take a picture and someone comments, like, why are you hanging out with so-and-so? It can be very superficial. And it becomes very high schoolish and it's everyone everyone is trying to build some brand yeah everyone's so image conscious and i don't feel like they're being honest with themselves whereas i i began to like you that season because i felt like you would just say what was on your mind and i didn't feel like you had like another storyline behind that you've always been very just honest even if it may not be what i want to hear

or vice versa um and i think that's why i became team nick thanks well i mean our good friend ashley is kind of i i i always find that ashley and i are similar in that sense i mean there's a lot of differences we have, but Ashley was always, it's going to be Ashley. And I think those people, you could say the same thing about Demi. Yeah.

In a traditional sense, Demi would have, especially when the show's evolved in terms of how villains are, Demi was going to be a villain. Five years ago, Demi was a super villain. Yeah. People would have hated her.

And there would have been no real arc. They would have just been, she would just been a villain. Right. Kind kind of like Courtney she kind of reminded me of Courtney Roberts remember that season a long time ago same type of outspoken kind of and had had Colton been more into Demi and let's say Demi went further she could have easily been just as hated as Courtney right for sure even look at Corinna in my season you know kind of the villain but not also a huge fan favorite. Right.

Right. And so the show's evolved to how they're portraying what is the definition of a villain or not. But I guess my point is this, like, people are more like in the past, they would stay away from it and they would just be critical. But I do think that people who are more willing to be authentic over time, fans do tend to appreciate them i just think cast members have a hard time with that they're so afraid they're so and and to your i agree with you inauthentic with what they're saying i mean we're watching like hannah this season hannah g you're every time she goes like this and looks up i think she's just thinking about how is this good for my brand? Right.

She's totally. I haven't been able to connect to her at all this season. And I thought she was going to be great. She was like one of the most wanted girls in Paradise history. But for some reason, I just can't buy into her relationship or her even. Maybe it's for that reason. I'm a part of it. And fair enough.

Like Dylan's so aggressive with his, how much he likes her. And it's like, no one can, if you're not Ashley and Jared, there can't be, you can't be this obsessed with each other. Right, right. You know, and listen, like that wasn't always the case for Ashley and Jared,

but that is how their relationship now. But so it just looks that way because Dylan likes her so much. But Hannah has never in the two seasons i have never met i don't know her but she's never come across as someone who's really good at expressing emotion right i mean she which is probably why she didn't get bachelorette probably probably i mean she almost looked mildly annoyed when colton broke up with her right right you know not like devastatedly heartbroken and i'm not saying she wasn't it

she doesn't it doesn't read doesn't portray it doesn't portray right um but anyways i just think that youth part in the show i mean in in fairness to jpj he did he come across a little mark walberg in the movie fear yeah yeah it was like jpj was like one of those guys were super cool and chill until he's not. Right. You know, like JPJ is the guy on the five o'clock news where you're like that person like witness number three, the neighbor. He's just like, you know, he was just always just a really nice guy until he popped until

he snapped. Yeah, this episode when he was talking to Derek, it gave me like Dahmer vibes. He's just his eyes turned and it was just creepy I don't know I'm I'm sliding on team JPJ I actually was a big John Paul Jones fan going into this but I think you still can be I don't think one episode of him losing his shit on camera defines him as a person um right but he is I think again he's he's just he is, I think, again, he's just, he is convinced that he's right. Which is scary. Which is scary.

Yeah. And not okay. I think that shows youth. That little scene of Derek calmly. And Derek reminds me a lot of myself too, is that sometimes, like I can be very calm in a fight and I'll like, I want to talk things through. Right. Which in romantic relationships, in any relationship relationship that hasn't always served me well because when you're fighting with someone

who's super calm it pisses the other person off more that's the most annoying it's the most annoying thing and that's gotten me in trouble a lot jade is that way actually she's super calm super calm and i you want i'm normally chill but when i like lose it i i want that like yeah i don't want to call it passion but i want that like up and down and a little bit of craziness and she's so here that like i get more frustrated when when we're in an argument because she's not giving me anything it's like indifference is like the worst totally it's not a matter of indifference though from from like defending jake at least for me i care but i'm just like i don't even there's no point of like us yelling at each other and and yelling at stupid shit that isn't what we're yelling about

so let's actually talk right about or you know and that that has always been a problem for me in relationship it's probably better to be on your end because i mean let's look at the john paul jones versus derrick thing derrick looks a lot better right sure john paul jones but and i probably look a lot worse than fights with jade yeah so anyway so like derrick's trying to talk to him and jpj's just nope nope nope nope nope like okay well first of all you're basing this information off a couple things he might have said that you're interpreted and again like who knows who's in john paul jones ear about like you know how reason right reasons right reasons and stuff like that uh but he's taken this little like seed of podcasts and decided that meanwhile this is taisha who set this whole thing in motion

by uh we talk a lot on our podcast about communication and and setting up front expectations taisha was kind of shitty in this whole situation yeah if taisha taisha knew she didn't want to be with john paul jones this wasnisha taisha knew she didn't want to be with john paul jones this wasn't like i don't think i want to be with john paul jones it was i don't want to be with john paul jones john paul jones likes me he's fun he's weird he's interesting he's fine i'll date him he's giving me roses this is cool derrick's not available he's with demi oh wait derrick's a free agent oh how do i get out out of this situation without looking like a total she tried to kind of let jpj down a little easy but she didn't let

him off the hook no which is he left him it's that classic case of half truce and and leading people on which people don't like and get and they get and always gets messier she left him off the hook because he likes her and when you end in relationships we're always testing each other right right so hot and jpj is literally like well i mean i need to prove my worth i need to fight for her right i doesn't mean she doesn't like me and and we can all from an outsider's point of view but yeah dude she doesn't like you but imagine a guy who's in love or obsessed 24 years old and looking for his wife since he was 18. Yeah. That's weird too. It's not that weird. Looking for your wife at 18.

It's weird to us because we are older. Right. But when you were 18, you thought you were gonna get married at 22, 24. And now you're at 18 and you're in the world tells you you're an adult. And now if you are grow up in a family where it's just like your parents got married at 22, you actually are thinking,

well, I guess I'm looking for my wife. It's not as insane as it sounds from someone who's has life perspective and got married in his 30s it sounds insane but to jpj it's not insane and do you like the bachelor seasons with the more young or more old and do you like the mix i'm fine with it changing right i think the like again people in life fear change people hate hate change. They're resistant to change for all the things we talked about earlier. But we all desire change. And even though when we were resistant, we often really need it and it keeps things interesting. So I like that they're

mixing it up. I don't want them to stay young. I want them to get older and mix it up because there's elements of showing what younger people are like as they're looking for love and that kind of unbridled passion and just kind of – it comes across as more sweet and authentic and raw but also immature and misguided and a little like crazy. Because that's what being young is all about. divided and a little like crazy because that's what being young is all about and then when you get older it's a little bit more mature and arguably more believable but you know it's a little bit more it seems a little bit more structured and too well thought out and resistant to just going for it right um i'm fine with either i think they just i just hope they continue to to mix it up um but jpj i should should i should kind of chill out i'm really i will say i've never been more curious about a reunion special especially

for paradise because a couple things i'm really curious about what is dylan's point of view uh about the blake stuff about the blake or no more himself oh like in terms of like like being a whipping boy yeah like what's your point of view on yourself i'm curious about jpj is perception of derrick and himself as there's how do you look that back and specifically he didn't get to see what taisha was all about right right he's sitting behind He seemed behind the curtain a little bit. Yeah. So he didn't get to see that Tayshia was kind of playing him for a fool and leading him on. Right.

And JPJ thinks he's fighting for the woman he loves. He feels like he's so right. And he's got to be a little uncomfortable watching this. If I'm JPJ, I go into this thing pissed off at Tayshia and apologetic to Derek. That's the only way he can... I don't know if he will. Right. But that's the only way he can i don't know if he will right but that's the only way he can look good in my opinion uh probably what do you think about what do you think about blake how do you think he'll be at the reunion because i agree

i think this reunion will be better than the season and the season's been good for my critiques about stage not stage it has been entertaining tv to your point there we go right so i i agree with that that it is entertaining i just i guess my purest heart fucking stubborn little i know i am um but i think the reunion is going to be great yeah i'm more i do what do i think blake's gonna do i don't know i think the only thing blake should do is fall on the sword so show humility make fun of yourself try to be somewhat light-hearted but also show humility and don't include the word but does he say that a lot no but like that's what people do is i'm sorry but uh i shouldn't have done that however right take that out of your vocabulary

if you want other people in your peers to like chime in and say, in fairness to Blake, I X, Y, and Z and defend them, let them do it. Do not do it for yourself. Only apologize for what you did wrong. Own up to your actions. Even if you think it's slightly unfair, I would absolutely apologize to Kaylin for the text messages. I would completely fall on the sword.

I would show humility, apologize. And if other people want to defend you for the text messages. I would completely fall on the sword. I would show humility, apologize. And if other people want to defend you, so be it. That's all he should do. I very much doubt he will do that. That is good advice. Blake, if you're listening, do that. Unfortunately, this will drop after he records it. Right. Yeah. It actually records today. Yeah. So I don't think he will do that. Should we segue into you personally, Tanner? Yeah, let's talk about life as a married dad. So you have a son.

I have a son. How is that going? Do you like him more than the daughter? You know, going into before I had Emmy, before any pregnancy in my life, I always thought I wanted a boy. Same. Only, first, whatever. life, I always thought I wanted a boy. Same. Only, first, whatever. Just want a boy.

I wanted a boy. But to be honest, my connection with my daughter probably initially was the most strong. I don't know if that's because she was a daughter or because she was first. Sure. Whatever it is, but my honest answer is I feel right now more connected to Emmy. And I feel bad saying that because I've got a beautiful newborn son there. You hear that a lot, though. Maybe it just takes time.

And it's always weird because I feel like traditionally men always dream about having a son. 100%. And I don't, I guess I can't speak for women, but I'm not surprised to say women might dream about having a daughter. And yet, you always hear about the father- bond or the mother son bond right now it feels different and i really feel bad saying that because like i want to love and i will love them equally for different reasons but it i feel it right now more with emmy and i i don't know why i think that'll change over time i think the newborn stage for me is just really hard if i'm being open and honest

what's the hardest part about it just the incessant crying like it makes me go crazy it does like it's it's really hard because it's different right now because when emmy was little i was working my regular job and i was gone most of the time i came i came home for a little bit of play time and oh cute baby okay night and that was it it was super easy i i i hand it to all the stay-at-home moms and dads out there if you're staying home with your kid it's a lot i i am way more stressed now that i'm not working at home with two little ones than when i was working i'm more exhausted more mentally tired it's a lot of work and like honestly working is easier than being a stay-at-home mom um amen it's my mom growing up and people

would ask her like what does she do for a living and i'm like do you have any idea it's insane man like i'm not talking a little harder it's like 10 times harder and i mean and you know that you have a charmed life in terms of you guys are doing very well and your financial security to have the comforts and imagine like for the people who don't and you're still acknowledging how hard oh yeah when you when you add in other struggles in life i can i mean i reach out to those people you're the real you're the real heroes because it is hard but but yeah the first six months i remember it within me a little bit but it's tough i don't know if it's because we're guys and we didn't have that bond of carrying the child it takes a little time to build that up.

And plus they're just really difficult. He wants mom all the time. You know, I don't have milk here to provide. Is it kind of like he, you kind of feel like he doesn't really want you. So you're like, yeah,

fuck it. I don't really want you either. I mean, maybe a little bit. You guys, you guys are already fighting. In nicer words than that. Yes.

But, um, that's a, that's really interesting. I, I, I get a lot of, uh uh questions on my questions with nick on my instagram and here i get a lot of questions about uh the romance in a relationship especially after kids you and jade have been married for how long now what romance yeah but how long we've been married for three and a half three and a half years and emmy is how old now just turned two and how long have you known each other you guys got me for four this is four years ago from paradise so a little i mean being real like how has the romance in this

that has has changed um you know much to the disbelief of demi romance was great before i'm just kidding unnecessary i'm just kidding um but it's changed completely so i i want it more now maybe that's just because the sex yes you want some sex i want some sex more now great jade wants it less i mean she i get why yeah but it's it is hard that's one of the biggest things we talk about um as soon as Emmy came and she started breastfeeding, that jacked with her hormones a little bit, I think, and her focus was on Emmy, as it should be. But it took a dive then,

and then pretty much right after the breastfeeding stopped, we got pregnant again with Brooks and went through the whole pregnancy, and now he's here and we have two kids. It is tough. I feel like I beg for it and i don't want to feel selfish i hate asking i hate trying sure because like i don't want it to be like pity sex and i don't want to like annoy jade and i i realize that her priority should be on the kids not me but i do feel have you curated some really good burner. Have you curated some really good porn? Have I what? Curated some really good porn?

Like what do you? I have to. What are you into? I'm curious. How is, do you watch porn? Do I? I'm not really a big porn guy. Is your masturbation schedule really upped? You know, no.

I'm not. I feel like now that I'm married, like I don't want to go that route as much as when I was single, if that makes sense. I don't know why. Have you, but you from time to time? Yes. If Jade's out of town if that makes sense i don't know why have you but you from time to time yes if jade's out of town what is jade's thoughts on you watching porn she doesn't want to know when i relieve myself she doesn't want to know she doesn't want to she's okay with me when doing it she doesn't want to know like hey i'm going to the room right now

see ya you know oh yeah that's just weird but like if she knew you were watching porn um while masturbating would you would she care i get this is a very hot topic in out there i think it i don't know i guess you'll have to ask her i don't really have that conversation with her oh well so i guess i'm gonna have a conversation you heard it here first. Do you think it's cheating? No, I don't think it's cheating. I mean, I agree. Yeah. But like, I mean, I'm assuming, and all jokes aside,

that you don't hide that from Jade. No. She doesn't want to know. But like, also, would you agree that you feel like it's always, it's just a matter of perspective and whether that person feels threatened. And do they feel threatened because they feel insecure about the relationship itself versus like Jade is aware that right now

she just isn't into it. And like she gets that, like she's not afraid of you going somewhere else. So it's like, hey, whatever. Yeah, I can't speak for everyone that has issues with it. But I think, you know, if you're able to give to your partner to satisfy their needs, then great. Maybe it shouldn't be a part of your life at all

or as much or whatever the case being, but if you're at a period in your life where you can't fulfill certain needs, I don't think you can view it as cheating or view it as trust issues. Sometimes you just go porn free and just close your eyes and think of your lovely wife yeah it's so romantic i have honestly like when she's out of

town before like i said not now that i'm married i i honestly don't do it that often like when i was do you ever when i was a single guy and just wasn't doing my own thing sure and i'm bored tuesday night i would you know if i was in the mood when you're traveling are you guys do you guys do you guys like uh are you do you guys minus this period right now do you guys have a sexual relationship or you're open about sex yeah 100 like um would you ever like tell her that you've done that done what like thought of her when not like you're traveling business road check okay just you know this is what i have told her that before i think it's kind of a turn on one of flattery yeah 100 i feel like she might end it and like into that i don't know yeah i think we'd have no women she

wasn't she wasn't like disgusted by it i think she liked it um better her than me watching something else but i feel like that's kind of yeah but like but like jade did playboy before oh that's right i totally forgot you know i i have access to some stuff when she's kind of, yeah. But like, but like Jade did Playboy before. Oh, that's right. I totally forgot about that. I have access to some stuff when she's out of town. Yeah. I forgot about that. You really, you really do have a spank bank of your life. Right.

It's weird to say. It is interesting. Yeah. I mean, and so do you guys talk about the fact that you're not having a ton of sex right now? Yeah. We talk about it a lot. We try to have constructive criticism over it. Sometimes I get like, I get like a little down and throw myself a little pity party sometimes. Um, and then she

understands me and like, I think she feels bad and it usually like leads to a little bit of pity sex or pity something. But are there ever times where it's the opposite like where you're not in the mood and she does so we went through a period shortly after we got engaged where it was like that that's the only time in our four-year you know what was that like because i feel like in traditionally in relationships especially when i was younger the assumption is guys always want the sex and whenever the woman wants it she's gonna get it because like and then if it doesn't happen there's a lot of offense taken on the part of the person who's usually like wait what you don't i say no to you not the other way around where's the lip was there a little bit of that yeah there were some hurt feelings there and i i she still brings that period up now when i now that the shoes on the other foot she kind of

uses that as like a yeah but remember when and it's hard to argue with her um because i don't know if it was just after the engagement and things became real like i was just does she use it as a poking bear but like it's not like as if you don't understand why Jade might not be super turned on right now. No. Yeah. I mean, she's producing milk. Sure. Got baby on her.

She's exhausted. But like, why didn't you want to have sex? What was that? The psychology? And again, I ask this because I think a lot of people listening, we have a lot of women listening. Like, guys sometimes don't want to have their surprise sometimes we just aren't in the mood yeah it was it was a few months like after we got married so i think when we were engaged i was like let's go all the time and then i think maybe after the culmination of the wedding

and so many things like i don't know if it was hormonal or what but i just like my libido just dropped for like a three month period it's the only time in my life i've ever just been like listen babe i'm good i don't know why do you don't like for me nothing makes my libido go down more than stress uh i'm in my head a lot obviously so that's stress i mean i don't want to make assumptions but it would make sense it would i would wonder if during that period of time while everything you guys are engaged but maybe let's that's a nice segue going back to what we talked about before like you always loved jade and it was authentic but like you guys can't come a long way since the moment you asked jade to marry her

100 in terms of your like how how confident were you when you got down on one knee 50 50 50 50 yeah right and if you'd asked me a week before proposal like you know week four of paradise i would have been like 10 90 you know it grew that you and jade to be here today with two kids and a good great relationship yeah that you know all the struggles that married couples can have but you guys have a great relationship. Yeah. I think 50, 50, honestly. And I was scared because like, I love Jade.

I knew there was a foundation, but I was like one of those people. I only want to propose once. And my heart was like, yeah, I'm in this. But my head was like, the odds are against you, Dan. Just to play devil's advocate. And I don't want to go back to what we talked about before, but could one argue that the fact that you were 50-50, that 50% of you thinking it might not work was you saying you were doing it for the moment for TV and wasn't as authentic as you imagine it would be when you propose to anyone regardless of TV?

Yeah. I think I was pressured by my surroundings of the tv to go that route yeah yeah so that you could argue that was inauthentic and i'm just saying it worked out not authentic i guess not staged at all just to put that out there i didn't know jay didn't any point but it was not as organic as we the viewer would want and that's right fine because look at you guys now. If there weren't cameras there, I would have waited six months, a year, whatever.

And who knows? I mean, I remember when Vanessa, I mean, there is pressure, right? Some of it is just, I remember Vanessa, all jokes aside, like the Colton not getting engaged to Cassie, I think is an ideal situation. A lot of leads would hope, would want to be an option because of like, let's just date. Right. Right. I do remember, especially on bachelor bachelorette. I think you're honestly way less at that point than the

people in paradise. Your time is so minimal compared, but I do remember telling Vanessa at the time, it's just like, I'm going to be honest. I have all these feelings for you and I love you. And I kind of just feel like if we just decide to date, we have no shot. There's no stakes. It will be easiest for us to walk away. And if we make this commitment to each other because we love each other, I think we'll really want to fight for us and we'll really give it a real shot. And I believe that when I said that to her, right? And I think that's true. Do you think that the fact that you took this risk, even at the time it might have been a slightly authentic, do you think you and Jade would, had just as much of a chance to be together today had you just decided to date after Paradise? And she lived in LA and you lived in Kansas City.

That's a really good question. I've never actually thought about it but probably not i yeah because i think me proposing and she's saying yes i think that obviously pushed her to move to kansas city quicker and i don't think i think if we tried to do the long distance for too long of a time it wouldn't have worked for me i can't i'm not a guy that can do long distance. So I think taking that step, push things on the fast track, which allowed our relationship to survive. I don't, I think if we just left, we would have broken up in three, six months. Interesting fact and point of view

that sometimes you had to force a situation that was slightly inauthentic. And sometimes it is good to kind of take a risk, which is sometimes, again, maybe even hypocritical to some of the advice I sometimes give that like, you really got to trust your gut and not for something. There is that balance in relationships of, I will say in any relationship I've ever had, I have no regrets because I have always been guilty, if you want to call it that, of exhausting all my options in a relationship in terms of like really fighting for that relationship I was committed to. And so by the time we broke up,

it was like probably long overdue. And I don't regret that for that reason of I know I didn't quit. And I was always steadfast. but like sometimes when i give a lot of advice it's kind of like hey man just you could spend six more months stressing over this thing or you can kind of see the writing on the wall and there is a balance right right um it's trying to give someone that perspective partly in a breakup situation to not hang on to what's not real uh and then pine over the things that you miss and long for because you're lonely but yeah that's 100 true uh i think it's really fascinating and i think thanks for being so transparent and honest about it you are if nothing else very an open person uh so where do you think you guys go from here in terms of like, how do you, are you guys

done having kids? Well, so we always said we wanted three or four. Okay. You know, during, now that we've got a two year old and a four week old, if you had asked us right now, I'd be like, man, I don't know if I can do this again. Like the hardest part for me is I want to get back to the point where like we can go to dinner with our kids or we can travel with our kids and not have it be just like such a circus yeah and I feel like every time you have a kid you're just delaying that you know you're talking another you know because realistically

they got to be like four and six before they're you can really go start doing all the things you did before um so like I'm a little scared right now to say I want a third. May I get there once things ease up again? Maybe, maybe even probably. But I don't know. What's the, before the new baby came, what were you guys doing? Because like Emmy was kind of, you know, Ingrid J was breastfeeding, but she was, you guys are kind of settling into this routine were you do you guys plan dates do you guys do those kind of things

not as well as we should you don't okay jade is but you feel like you should yeah do you don't think that's just like a cliche no i think you need to because i i think it's super easy to always put your kids first and i think probably the mom does it even more than the dad in most cases just because of their motherly instincts i think you have to take that time to put your relationship first otherwise it won't succeed long term you have to keep dating your spouse i'm a firm believer in that we try to we try to like again it's hard right now because we've had such a newborn to be there but like once he's a little older we'll set a time once a week where we get a babysitter my mom comes over and we're gonna go just be us whether it's to dinner whether it's to a show whether we go golf together just because i think you need it i think if you don't take that time to remove the kids

from the equation even for a couple hours you're just gonna be mom and dad not husband and wife what is the things that you think have gotten you and jade to where you have gotten to especially with so much i mean let's be honest your relationship has always been kind of tumultuous great but like it's kind of been fast paced going and kind of like and that includes stress like what are some of the things that have gotten you through it yeah it's a blur i think we've gotten through i mean heck we got engaged then married then pregnant and then had a baby then pregnant again and had a baby in a closet and it's been it's been a whirlwind not to mention moving across the country and all that but i think we're we're content just being with each other and nothing else we don't need to go out and do all these other sorts of things

we are each other's best friends and we balance each other out i think we're complete opposites which every once in a while can cause a fight but i think mostly we balance each other out um so i don't know if there's like a real reason why we're just both committed to each other at the end of the day i think being committed to someone and fighting through the lows at the end of the day i think being committed to someone and fighting through the lows will will make it work that that's that's great uh what is uh your favorite thing about fatherhood minus the stresses that we just yeah no again i don't want to paint a picture that i don't think anyone gets that sense that i hate being a dad being a dad is the best thing that's ever happened to me be specific cliche but i'm really starting to enjoy

it with emmy she's just turned two and she's starting to communicate a little bit and i feel like that's where i'm hitting my stride as a dad she wants to play now and do like more stuff and just those moments make all the crying and diapers and craziness worth it do you think it's because and i'm just like thinking off the top of my head is that the mother might have this initial instinct because she's the mom and you know she obviously like literally baked the kid yeah they're breastfeeding and there's this innate connection and i'm but like as emmy's getting older and communicating like you're now now you're like starting to build a relationship because she's talking and now you're building almost like this friendship with your daughter and getting to know each other in a way like you're like starting to build a relationship because she's talking and now you're building almost like this friendship with your daughter and getting to know each other in a way like

you're getting, you're literally getting to know her and her you, which must, it sounds like that would be kind of fun that you're not really doing when the baby has like no personality. You can't because yeah, when the baby. I mean, I'm sure they have a personality. Yeah, but they're little potatoes. They don't need dad, honestly. They could survive without you just fine.

But now Emmy actually wants to do things They could survive without you just fine. But now Emmy actually wants to do things with me. And you're right. That is how any relationship, there needs to be kind of a mutual thing. And I think with a mom, there is that mutual thing because they shared a body. And then they're sharing, if you're breastfeeding and just all that extra time, I think it takes time for dads. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't want to talk about because you know you're supposed to paint this picture of oh yeah i love my baby from day one and while i do love him it takes time to build

a bond a true bond and and i'm really at that point with emmy and i can't wait to get there with my son too because now i know the the arc of how it works and it kind of makes sense i never thought about it but it's like you don't know this person. Yeah. It's like, who are you, man? Like, I guess you kind of have my eyes, but I don't know. Right.

Like everything's kind of squished together anyways. Right, right, 100%. It's a weird thing to say that you, like, again, the pressure of, like you said, you feel like you're supposed to feel one way, but if you're being real honest, you feel another another and like coming to grips with that sensation is bizarre yeah and you just have to realize that it takes time so i think if you are a mom or a dad i mean maybe some moms feel that way too um you'll get there i mean it's not one of those things that you don't

feel like you're doing something wrong um just, just takes time to get to know someone. For all the, the, the moms and wives out there, uh, that are listening, what are some things as a, as a married guy that you appreciate your wife doing both in the bedroom and outside of it in terms of what are some things that, well, let's focus on the bedroom first. Like, uh, we get a lot of these questions. How do I i've been married for seven years we have three kids it's gotten stale how do i mix it up and i feel like i have some ideas but i'm not married with kids for me it's just initiation like i honestly feel that since we've had kids like i initiate 99 of the time okay and then when i you know while the sex is great thereafter and i still enjoy it like it's better when the wife initiates even if even if you don't want to you know i think throw the guy a bone a little bit

and make him feel wanted because i think as a dad or as a husband with with new kids it's easy to be put on the back burner and if your wife shows that initial interest where you don't have to make the move first that's the big difference to me so it's just it's just the want for me i mean once i'm in the in the actual act of sex or whatever you may be doing that's all great i mean i enjoy that regardless of how we got there but that initial want to that's at least personally that's that's all i if you you were a fantasy football draft that you were last weekend you're out there with your boys and you and jade sent you a little like little little nude in the shower a little hot with you that yeah it would be it would do it for me yeah

because like as when you're married you don't do those things as much so just to keep that spark alive i think even if it's a little silly or just, you know, playful, it does just ignite that fire just enough to, like, okay, my wife still, she still wants it. You know, she still likes me. Right? Yeah. That's the thing. It's just, like, what's so exciting about dating someone is the unknown and the mystery behind things and this, like, well, the excitement you get when you realize someone's into you. It's the rush. It's the chase a little bit yeah so i think maybe like kind of your point like that great way of doing that is to surprise them by reminding them of the excitement you feel

for them and moments when least expected right um yeah 100 i think i think if you do those little couple extra things your husband will be okay if you start doing it less. You know, they understand. I think as long as you just show that initiation, that want to, that little spark, that little something random here and there, just to let them know that they still matter and that you still want them a touch. Also in moments too where like sex isn't even, like if you're traveling around on the table. I only say that too because going back to when you didn't want to have the sex. in moments too where like sex isn't even like if you're traveling around on the table i only said that too because we're when you going back to when you didn't want to have the sex as a guy i think

it's uh when you know the women want the sex and you don't and there's this kind of disconnect did you feel more pressure and then get defensive as a result of it probably yeah i mean when you when someone's constantly asking you for something it probably just makes you want it less doubles down which i guess maybe i should stop asking so much because i'm probably guilty of that now probably but like whatever i mean right sure but i guess what i'm saying is sometimes the excitement of like if you're out of town just to be like we're not clearly you can't have sex you're not here but i just want you to know yeah i wish you were you know that excitement that desire that like the longing for someone i mean it doesn't it feel good to feel missed

100 right yeah you know i and again i'm not i'm not married but like i got i assume but i've been in long-term relationships that that routine is comforting but it also is like you don't I never feel missed because you're always fucking here right you know right and we say that about each other in relationships it's kind of like if you live on the beach you start to not appreciate the ocean you see it every day you just kind of miss each other and or just create those

scenarios of or miss something miss doing something right without making it seem like a guilt trip. Why don't we ever do this anymore? Right. It's probably not a way of, it's like,

you know what? I had so much fun with you. Yeah. That time. That was really exciting. I think about that a lot. Right. I want to do that again with you.

I completely agree. What a different way of saying, why don't you ever do this with me anymore? Right. And men and women both do it oh i'm guilty i'm guilty of it i i pity her and into doing it now and i think it's never as good because i feel like and you don't you don't want pity sex i don't and then you pity her into doing it right um i mean i get it i'm sick we all do it but also like you're not watching porn you know

yeah i want my wife what you want your wife and all the women whose husbands are obsessed with porn are just like why can't i have someone like tanner um that's all very very fascinating any final thoughts tanner before i let you go not really man what's new with you anything dating life happy good anything to speak i haven't seen you in like a month i have a dating life is it's fine it's great um yeah always always looking available bleak no it's fine um it's totally fine it's it it's it's uh it's again i always it's it's tough for me to kind of figure out i've my biggest mistake i make in my dating life right now is thinking that i have it really narrowed down to what i want and then i become very you're looking for that exact puzzle piece right yeah not necessarily intentionally but i i've been in enough of relationships and did enough of people to know what I don't want. And now it's very confusing for me to figure out what I actually do want

thinking. I know what I want, but I really, but you might not. And then, you know, and then there's other variables of, of,

you know, too much, everyone, you know, in terms of the people you're going after versus the, they're going after and vice versa. And it just becomes a whole thing i'm very happy good with everything well everything's happily single happily married

with kids uh i really appreciate you having on you're always fun to talk to you're always very honest and authentic um i i look forward to you and demi meeting each other in person yeah i know that i would like to meet demi i think we would actually get along great and i demi if you're watching if you're listening to this watching this i am i applaud you for your bravery um and i wish you and christian the best none of my comments have anything to do with how i view your happiness or your relationship we just have a differing opinion on a little bit of tv but that's okay um and that that is okay it is tv yep friendly reminder yeah right it's great right and i'm i'm glad it's on yeah it's compelling um thanks so much uh for coming on uh for those of you listening as always we appreciate you tuning in we will see you back

on monday for another episode of ask nick and we'll have some wonderful questions and dating advice and relationship and we'll see where it goes. As always, I really appreciate you guys listening. We couldn't do this without you. Feel free to continue to share our podcast on your social media, follow us on Vile Files,

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