The Viall Files - E380 Going Deeper – Bachelorette’s Rachel Lindsay

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Today we are back with another episode of Going Deeper with The Viall Files. We are joined by past Bachelor contestant and lead of The Bachelorette, Rachel Lindsay. On this episode we dive deep on all the gossip and new information from Rachel’s new book, Miss Me with That, where she recounts her experience going on the Bachelor, becoming the first Black Bachelorette, and trying to critique and change an institution from the inside. We reflect on what it means to be more than just The Bachelorette, lessons from relationships, and how to write a revealing informative book that isn’t a tell all. After our interview we go through trending pop culture topics, such as the controversy with The Masked Singer, kids on social media, and Rhianna’s pregnancy. We close with a mediation call from our audience where a couple navigates overpromising and under delivering, also learning that it’s okay to bring your girlfriend to a Guys’ Night Out.   “A lot of people think our lives started the moment we walked out of the limousine”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen: Get the deals of your dreams at http://www.Brooklinen.com with promo code VIALL BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/ViallFiles Wondery: Follow Even The Rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @therachlindsay See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to a very special episode of the vile foul special because my friend rachel is back for i don't think the third or fourth time on this show yeah it's at least three at least three you're so special i just wanted you in the, I don't know, the third or fourth time on this show. Yeah, it's at least three. At least three. You're so special. I just wanted you in the intro. We don't always do an intro with our guests. Oh my gosh, thank you so much.

And we have a great episode, so we won't spend too much time. But I needed you here because I have a story about my Cindy. Okay. My house assistant. For those of you who don't know, Cindy has been on my Instagram. People have been asking what's up with Cindy. I haven't posted her as much recently. Once in a while, throw her out there. Cindy is essentially my house assistant. She is a family friend who is an assistant by trade. She's assisted for the rich and I think famous over the years.

And she's a family friend. And so when I hired her to be like, and she's my neighbor, essentially. She lives down the road. So when I bought my house, like Cindy is just Cindy Cindy's. You know, like when I bought my house and she's like, she's the person who knows everyone. Like my real estate agent, I got through Cindy and my real estate agent was awesome. And she knows all these people. She's got a guy for this and a guy for that. And overall, Cindy, wonderful. She's like family, even though she's a pain in my ass. But Cindy does what Cindy

wants to do. And Cindy is not afraid to just say what's on her mind. When I bought my house, she came. i bought the house biggest purchase my life by a mile like i was proud of myself it was kind of like i i made it like okay yeah and cindy walks in having not seen my house and goes i don't think there's enough storage and are you fucking kidding me c and and like Cindy has like full reign like

she has keys to the house she I don't even like I don't even know how to have a house assistant she was like I'm just going to do what I want to do

and she's just assigned full creative control she has full creative control and like she also is the type of person who she just has no problem being like

Nick you know what I think you need to do you need that type of person and she's the reason you have Jeff is she not

she is the reason you have Jeff she is the reason I have Jeff again I just want to make it clear Cindy is a net positive but she's a

she's a unique and sometimes we'll like go at it sometimes because she'll just like you need her show up in my and she'll just like show up in my and she'll just be there and then when she does

something wrong as we get in our mediation call today she gives a very dismissive like sorry and just like I don't go fuck kind of thing.

I love it. You know there's a certain age you reach where you can do that. So all right I've set this table for Cindy for Christmas and one thing that's great about Natalie is she she's like where you can do that. So, all right. I've set this table for Cindy. Okay. For Christmas.

And one thing that's great about Natalie is she's like, I've become a much better gift giver to other people because of Natalie. Natalie got sick. Natalie sent her a care package. Sent me a whole care package. It was all Natalie. I had nothing to do with it.

And it was the good, good. It was amazing. I have never felt cooler than when the Instacart shopper was like, order for Natalie. And I had nothing to do with it. And it was the good, good. It was amazing. I have never felt cooler than when like the Instacart shopper was like, order for Natalie. And I was like, that's me. And so Natalie's like, Cindy, what do you want for Christmas?

And Cindy goes, I have a, I love Brooklinen. Do a lot of work with Brooklinen. I think they're amazing. I love them. Cindy's like, I want some Brooklinen loungewear. And Natalie, to her credit, was like, Nick, I got the rest. Handle this. Okay.

I don't care if you buy it. Reach out to Brooklinen or whatever. I'm terrible. I'm not good with this shit. I dropped the ball. I didn't reach out. So we went Christmas shopping and we got her, and I'll get her to her some other time. You got her not Brooklyn. I got her not Brooklyn. We got her this really nice robe and this sweatshirt and Uggs. And I don't know, we spent some money. And I found out yesterday that Cindy came home

and she handed Natalie a gift card and said, I returned what you gave me from Christmas. Here's the gift card. And Natalie goes, well, I don't, that was for you. I don't, we don't want the gift card. And Cindy with a straight face goes, I asked for Brooklinen. It's just a woman who knows what she wants.

And I was like, is that insane? Or do we respect it? Well, how did Natalie feel? Because I feel like she was the one who like kind of went out there was very thoughtful with this gift so like i was not did natalie feel hurt by it hurt no i think because we know cindy but we were i think she was taken back and she kind of was like we have to get cindy brooklyn in loungewear i'm sorry i. I'm with Cindy. Listen, she was very clear. She said exactly. It's like when somebody has a registry and you buy them something that's not on the registry.

I didn't ask for that. I took the time to tell you exactly what it is that I want. And then you still go out. I didn't ask for this. So take your money. I don't need all of this. I'm just simply asking for something I love she wanted a gift that she is going to use rather than be wasteful she said here you go I'm all for it

I love a straight shooter you know does Cindy want a moonlight? a what? does she want a moonlight and come work for me? she probably do you

she probably would she'd be great she splits her time I have put two offers on houses in your neighborhood. And I keep losing. I just found out I lost on one today. I'm very sad about that. I know.

I love your neighborhood. I overall appreciate the honesty. And I honestly don't mind it at all. But I do feel like some people would just be… Yeah, I think it's very different coming from like a woman in her 60s versus like, I feel like if I did that to someone, it'd be like, all right, calm down, sweetheart.

Like be grateful. But like Cindy is like someone who knows what she wants. And you have to appreciate that because you're never going to have to wonder with Cindy. Like you're always going to know exactly where you stand and exactly how she feels. And I think there is something beautiful about that because you never have to assume. I don't know. I like people like that in my life. I mean, she's a value add.

It's also very funny that she got the gift card. I really like the way she approached it where she was like, I'm going to return it, get the gift card, and then give it back. She didn't donate it. She didn't let it and then give it back. She didn't donate it. She didn't let it just sit in a corner. She didn't give it away. She goes, I asked for Brooke Lennon. I love it. I love her.

Short to the point. All right. Well, we have a great episode for you with Rachel talking about her books and pop culture and mediation call. It's all wonderful coming up in moments. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com. Cast with a K for your questions, whether it's mediation or for Ask Nick episodes. Rachel, how are you?

I'm really good. So nice to see you again. It's good to see you too. How's the book tour or launch? Is it a tour? Did you do the tour? How's that work? Because of Omicron, I was supposed to do a New York press tour in person.

And then it got switched to virtual. So I did everything from my house, which was, I mean, it was great to do certain shows. But it sucked because I wish I could have been there in person. But I mean, I've been getting a great response from the book. And that's been really nice. I've kind of put things on hold now just because of everything that happened. But I mean, it's been, it is so nerve wracking. If you ever read a book,

just because you are equally excited, but scared at how people will respond. And if people from your past will come up and have something to say, like I've actually had talks- Did you use real names? Could you use names? I use real names for bachelor people.

I used fake names for my past. Okay, that's what I was curious about. Because bachelor people are like, whatever. Exactly. We're not. Fake names for bachelor people. I used fake names for my past. Okay, that's what I was curious about. Because bachelor people are like, whatever. Exactly. We're not. Fake names for my past. We're not real people. And I changed like cities and stuff just to protect them.

Because I don't need anyone coming back. And I've actually had to have conversations with exes. Did you warn anyone? Yeah, the exes that I talked to, I told them. Before the book came out? Mm-hmm. Be like, you're in it, but I've changed your name. Because I've been writing it since 2020.

Okay. Mm-hmm. So yeah, no, I told them that they were in it. It's like, maybe you should pick up a copy. And it's funny too, because two of them have daughters. And so now, and I'm like, have asked them questions about, are you going to talk to your daughters a certain way? Like knowing how you were with women, maybe you should read this chapter. It's been really interesting conversations that have come out, but you're scared because you just don't know how people will respond to you because you're being so vulnerable in a way you never have before. You know, in bachelor world, you're in a bubble. So you only know what I give

you in the bachelor world. Like these are my friends. These are, this is who I'm dating. you in the bachelor world. These are my friends. This is who I'm dating. It's not housewives where you see a peek into my real life. Not a real peek, just my whole real life. With the book, you are seeing my real life. You're seeing how I was when I was younger. You're seeing my vulnerabilities, my insecurities, my fears, all of that. I'm putting it out there. So it's the hardest thing I've ever done did you have any positive conversations with some of the gentlemen that you were critical of from your past critical is a strong word I don't mean critical in a bad way but like you criticized some bad behavior yeah and I called out some of my own so two of my exes I've spoken with and we had

beautiful conversations about it. You know, one told me, he was like, yeah, it was pretty accurate in what you said, and then apologized to me. And I was like, you don't have to apologize. With one of my exes, I feel like I held him to an impossible standard. And he said, no, I want to apologize. I have daughters now. I regret the way that I was. It was tough for me to read that because what you were saying was true. I knew better.

I wasn't doing better. But now that I'm raising women, I feel completely awful. Like I feel it in a different way. So yeah, really positive conversations. A lot of this book is, well, actually all of this book is really just like a memoir about your life.

Yeah, in essay format. Yeah. You go back and talk about, you know, I love how you started about like what Rachel wanted at 18, 30 and things like that. So shallow. But clearly this must have been very reflective. Brooke Lennon. Cindy loves Brooke Lennon.

I love Brooke Lennon. She won't accept any gifts. If you buy a gift, Brooklinen is so awesome that when you buy someone a really nice gift, they return it back and say, I asked for Brooklinen. True story. That happened to me. So just get them Brooklinen. They have it all. Bed sheets, duvet covers, comforters, towels, bath towels, robes, the most comfortable loungewear you could possibly have. Brooklyn has no shortage of savings on all things comforts to celebrate your extra day of lounge. That's right. Cast your vote for the comfort with Brooklyn's President's Day Sale.

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you're taking care of, you know, whether it's your dietary habits, your exercise, treat yourself to good mental health. And no matter what, whatever you're stressed out, money, work, relationships, I don't know,

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to facilitating great therapeutic matches. They make it easier and free to change therapists. If you need, you take a quick test when you go to betterhelp.com, an assessment to, you know, what are you looking for? They align you with a person, get the benefit from BetterHelp like so many other people have. Visit betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. That's betterhelp.com slash vile files. That's better H-E-L-P and join the over two million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional and we have a special offer for biofile listeners get 10 off your first month at betterhelp.com slash biofiles what has writing this book if anything taught you about um yourself and the world in general?

I mean. Like, does it change your perspective on anything? It didn't change my perspective on the world, but I wanted maybe to change people's perspective of me when I wrote the book, because I feel like they think. That's a tough goal. Well, at least understand me.

Right. You know, like understand me a little bit better. Like people say, oh, she's always stronger. She's so opinionated. She's always got something to say. She's defensive. She's complaining. Well, I think if you read the book and you see how I grew up or how I struggled with identity as a young kid,

and then, you know, how I came into my own and certain experiences that I've had, you understand why I ended up going on The Bachelor, doing Bachelorette, saying yes, and why I've continued to speak out against certain things that I don't necessarily agree with. Not because I just love to disagree, but because I'm a champion of inclusivity. And that's really why I originally said yes to being The Bachelorette, the main overarching reason. But I don't think it changed my perspective on anything, but I felt like it was very therapeutic for me to write it. And I did learn certain things as I was writing it, especially in regards to therapy helped me deal with

maybe some family issues, relationship issues. And I have a whole chapter in there about mental health. But as I was writing about Bachelor, it's interesting to write when you're completely detached from the show. I don't watch it. I don't podcast on it. And so I can see things because my head is out of the clouds or I'm not caught up in the journey or anything like that. And so some things I was writing, I was like, wow, you know, I thought I'm the first black bachelorette and this is absolutely amazing. And it is, and it's such an honor and it's such a privilege to be this. But then I realized it wasn't just for me. I was

also doing the show a favor because in 15 years, they hadn't had a person of color in this role. So it was equally important for me as it was for them, but for different reasons. And so you see me kind of go through that and yeah, it helped me in a lot of ways, but also I was helping them in a lot of ways too. So it was really therapeutic for me to go through that thought process as I was detaching myself from the franchise. Do you feel any gratitude from the franchise? Oh, absolutely. Well, I used to always say I have a love-hate relationship with the show because I'm not going to sit here and say the show gave me everything that I have. The show changed my life. Absolutely. But if the show gave me everything, then everybody would come off the show and do exactly every single thing that they wanted to do. Not everybody

does that, but the show gives you an opportunity and the show helped me in a lot of ways. I'm always talking about how if you really dive into the show, you really come out knowing exactly who you are and exactly what you want because you're talking about your feelings and your desires and you're detached from all the distractions in real life. And the only thing that's normal to you or real to you from that world into bachelor world is you and your thoughts and your desires and the goals that you have for yourself. So if you take that and learn from that and really tap into that, you come out, I think, a better person. That's why a lot of people get in relationships right after the show is over with. Like a cleanse.

Good or bad. You said what? It's like a cleanse. It's like a cleanse. And then you go back into the real world. So I got that from the show. And then, of course, I've got opportunities. And it was a platform.

And I met amazing people that have beautiful friendships on camera and off camera. But there's a whole other side to it as well. I'm not going to just say it was all sunshine and blue skies. But absolutely, I have gratitude. And the show gave me a lot. But I'm not one of those people who's like the show gave me everything like i can't say what people say do you think they appreciate do you feel their gratitude like for what you've done for the franchise or the show that you gave them i guess that's what i meant oh that was my question okay not like are you thankful like well i answer that yeah but no but people do say to me

are you thankful for mike fleiss well no people do say to me like you should shut up and just be grateful the bachelor gave you everything that you have so i guess like that's why i was so eager to jump on that question but do i feel their gratitude in ways yeah i mean i certain people i think i yeah and you know who I'm talking about even when the book came out I received messages from higher ups

that were saying congratulations on this I've said before like I'll joke like oh I know that you know I'm a pain to you and they're like

no everything that you've done is to try to make us better I've never said the show should be done you've some higher ups said that to you yeah and I've never said the show should be done. You've, some higher ups said that to you.

Yeah. And I've never said the show should go off the air because there's too many people that I love who still work on that show. But what I will say is, well, let's make it better. But sometimes the audience or particularly the side that can't stand me can't see that. I would never call for this show to end. But if I'm a part of something and I love something, then why not make it better? You've done so much heavy lifting in the franchise relative to diversity, all the things you just talked about. And then as you've mentioned, you're out of it. You've worked on an extra, you have your higher learning podcast, you're out of it. You work at an extra, you have your higher learning podcast, you're not recapping, you don't even watch anymore. And your hard work, the trailblazing

that you've done is seen on the screen now. It's great. Do you feel like you've gotten the appreciation that you deserve from not only the viewers or other cast people on, and do you feel like the work that you've done is being carried on by anyone involved in Bachelor Nation, or do you sometimes worry there will be, they'll revert back to what they did because

you've been out of it and you've been such a spokesperson and you've been willing to speak up and take the heat that you knew you're that you knew was coming you know we've talked when I had you on and we talked about Hannah Brown and we gave this thoughtful, good conversation. We didn't even go after Hannah. And we knew, we both knew that we would get criticism and you would get most of it. And you did it anyways. And that moment is something that you repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and you took the heat but like do you do you even pay attention from afar because there's a lot of blood sweat and tears and heavy lifting that you did that um has anyone or a group of people have taken up on that to keep those conversations going well because i'm so

detached i wouldn't know yes and. First part I will say about being appreciated is, and the same reason that you and I had that podcast, which I thought was so great. I can remember doing it in my closet from a distance. It was the height of COVID at that time. It was bigger than me, which is why I wanted to do it. It wasn't about how people would respond. It was what people needed to hear. And that has been my whole motivation for speaking out the way that I have. And so I never did anything to be appreciated. I was never looking for people to cheer me on. I was just looking for people to want to see, to believe and want to do the, see the change that

I wanted. So I really don't care about being appreciated. And I think you have to think that way if you're going to be so outspoken. You can't care good or bad what people think. You just have to do you. With the Bachelor Diversity Committee, I think that's a huge thing for a group of people who are fans of the show, not on the show, who want to see the show they love so much change. I think that's a big deal. When the narrative started to change, when people actually started to speak out to the things that I've been talking about after the interview that I had with Chris Harrison, and you saw the contestants put out statements and everything, and then everybody kind of just started to speak up and say something. So I think that was a big deal. And I think that's why things have changed.

Are people still speaking out? I don't know. As a coworker said to me, you've been taking the brunt of the hits and the criticism and certain people have run behind you completely unscathed. That was my question. I guess that's why I questioned. You've paved away. Having to not step up when it like step up when it's popular

or when it's cool to do it rather than, you know, stepping out there and standing for something that you believe in. Not running behind me when it's easy. And I've seen that. So yes, you've, okay. Thank you. Yes. Okay.

I was wondering, well, I guess that was, I wasn't trying to ask that question, but you got to my point. Oh, absolutely. You've, again. It's cool. It was cool in 2020. It's like you were driving this giant snow plow truck, paving the way for something that's never happened.

There was all this blizzard of lack of diversity, whatever. And you're just like kicking the door down. And then Bachelor Nation, their producers in the show were like, oh, we'll do a little bit more. You're like, no, do more. Do more. Do more. My message never changed.

And then you left. And then a bunch of peers behind you are just like, this is open road. I can ice skate. Yeah. But part of that, like when you're the like, this is an open road. I can ice skate, yeah. And, but part of that, like when you're the first, that is what you do. And everyone looks at it

as this beautiful thing and it is, but it's equally hard. And I talk about this in the book. I saw my dad be the first in a couple of ways. So I knew how hard that can be because people are criticizing you. They're judging you.

They're watching you like you like you're this unicorn or like, what is this person going to do? We've never seen them in this role before. And a lot of times they're rooting for you to fail because it's something different and people don't like change. So I knew all of that, but it's just interesting sometimes to see that take place.

You did mention early on that your hope for this book was to potentially have people understand you better. Yes. That's something for different reasons. I'm always like, you and I are very similar that way. We have our opinions, we have our thoughts, We have our thoughts. We like to be liked, but we need to get it out. We feel as though, and we can say it, and maybe it's our own hubris to say, I can say it in a way that everyone will understand, even though we know. And I've come to accept that no matter, there's a certain group of people no matter what i say or how i say

it right they have decided how they feel about me right and any energy i put into trying to change their perception of me is a complete waste of my time and and detrimental to my mental health and do you feel like this book have was able to do that with any of those people? Or are those people not even on your radar in terms of people who you felt maybe didn't really understand who you were, or maybe you were hoping that they would see at least a little of themselves in you? So that may like to relate to you better. Do you feel like you accomplished that or no? The bachelor clan, as I refer to them,

I'm never going to get to. People who might in the middle say like, why is Rachel always complaining? Or, you know, like I read these clickbait articles and it seems like she doesn't get along with someone or she always has something to say. Maybe you can read the book and see it in a different way. Or people who don't

watch the show who are just like, oh, that's that first black bachelorette who went on a reality show. You can actually humanize me past being a reality TV star and get to know me a lot better. I hope my book reaches an audience that doesn't even watch the show. That's why I wanted to do a book of essays because each essay stands alone. It doesn't go, it isn't kind of in chronological order, but you can pick it up, jump ahead to bachelor stuff, go to stuff, you know, in college. You can, yeah. That's kind of how I read it. Yeah.

And I jumped to the bachelor stuff. I definitely made sure I got to that part. But no, you can't, I jumped around. I looked at the chapter titles. Yeah. I wanted people, A Nation of Double Standards is one of my favorite chapters. I wanted people,

I wanted it to stand alone. I wanted you to be able to say, hey, I can go back to this and maybe I can talk to my child about mental health or my friend or whatever. I can go back and talk to them about sex, religion.

You know, there are levels to it. It's not just a bachelor tell-all. And that was important for me to do because the title of this book was almost More Than a Bachelorette. But I wanted to do something more than just... Better title. No. No, no. This is a better title. Oh, I was like, yeah, this is a through line. Why do you keep this?

I thought you said that More Than a Bachelorette. I wanted to more than a bachelorette I wanted to detach from the bachelorette title but the subtitle could have been more than a bachelorette because I feel like I am and you know how it is

we both were in our 30s when we came on the show and a lot of people think our lives started the moment we walked out of that limousine I wonder even the witch

you one of our favorite podcasts out there because we're fascinated with the rich and famous and the story of Patty Hearst is no different we've all been found kind of you know everyone loves a good kidnapping story the Stockholm syndrome is a real fascinating thing and the story of Patty Hearst 19 year old Patty Hearst who was abducted and kidnapped and ended up robbing a bank with her abductors. What a crazy story. But who's to blame? What's the truth? Your lovable and wonderful hosts of Even the Rich break it all down and give you the detailed story of Patty Hearst. Follow the Even the Rich on

Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or anywhere you want to listen to podcasts. You can also listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in their Wondery app. Yeah, so people think that our lives started that day, and so I wanted people to realize it didn't. You take being friends with the opposite sex head on in this book. Yeah, I'm a firm believer in being friends with the opposite sex. Yeah, I'm not disagreeing at all. But what are the main takeaways? Do you think, like, what are the things you need to be most careful of when doing that? Specifically, also being in a romantic relationship.

Right. Totally different if you don't have someone. Because like, whatever, if you're not. Right. I think it's just, I never want to make my significant other feel uncomfortable. Like, you hear me talk about this person, but I'm never bringing my two lives together.

And so, and in the book, that's kind of what was happening when I dive into that essay. I grew up with so many guy friends and I talk about some of those relationships. And what I learned, a hard lesson is, if you want to continue that relationship and it's important to you, you don't need to hide that from your significant other. I have now since made sure that my guy friends are great friends with Brian in this case, and he knows them just like he would any of my other girlfriends. So I just think it's keeping the line of communication open and then just being respectful. Back in the day, I used to spend the night at my guy friend's house. Obviously, I would never do that now.

But there was a time where I couldn't see anything that was wrong with it. I was like, what's the big deal? We're not doing anything. Even when you had a partner? Even when I had a partner. I was like, what's the big deal? We'd sleep in the same bed. What's the problem?

He's not doing anything. Like immature. So you evolved. Yes, I have evolved. But I'm so big on having, I learned a lot from my guy friends. The fact that I grew up with around guys and I hung out with them. I feel like I learned how men would think.

I would hear how they would talk about other women. Sometimes that was good for me. Sometimes that was bad for me. What was the thing that you learned the most? Men gossip way more than women. More? Yes, that I definitely learned. But I would hear them talk about them way more than women. More? Yes. That I definitely learned.

But I would hear them talk about them as if they were things and not humans. And this is when we're younger, so conversations have changed a bit. And that's like, wow, is that how men talk about me?

The guy that I like, is that how he talks about me? They were so open about the intricacies of their relationship that I was like, oh, this is really shocking. But it let me know.

Were all your guy friends like that or just some? Some. But my close ones. Your close friends. But maybe because we were close. Yeah. And so maybe that's why they were sharing that. But I would see them share that with another group of guys

that just happened to be there. But this is also like, I'm talking teenager, early 20s. The conversations aren't like that now. What part of your book when you talk about The Bachelor was talking about Peter very therapeutic for you? Because I feel like

you were going into detail because as you wrote about about people even to this day have some strong opinions about what they think your intentions were and despite you being there and despite them conveniently complaining about the edit when it serves what they want to see in the show they they can't let go sometimes and even me reading that part was was eye-opening and even though I knew like I've always obviously believed you right um and and kind of when it came up would be like this is ridiculous of course wow right of course she's

a big prime right yeah if you know anything about, I would settle for nothing. But it was a very detailed description of those events and conversations you guys had on the show and in the fantasy suite specifically. I love talking when you ask them the question about, listen, if I don't pick you and they ask me the bachelor, would you do it? And that wasn't therapeutic to get that out, I'm asking. Well, it wasn't therapeutic, but it was necessary for me because in Bachelor Nation, people just have selective hearing for some reason. And so I think the reason people have such a hard time with me saying, you know,

when I say I didn't settle for Brian and this is how it really was, is because they think that I'm dismissing the feelings that I had for Peter. And if you read the book, I've never done that. I've always said I had strong feelings for him. I've always said those tears were real. I've always said I threw all of my emotions into that moment because I knew it was it for me. And in the book, I go into why that moment was so emotional for me. And I build you up to that point, but I've never denied how much I really liked him on the show. But for some reason, people act like I'm like, oh, you know, it wasn't that big of a deal.

We've had this conversation with your season right we talk I hate when people try to have like change the narrative of like oh I really wasn't into them no I've always been very honest either I was or I wasn't no but it wasn't it wasn't therapeutic but it was necessary for me and I was hoping that when you saw me talk about other relationships that I've had then you understand why I made the decisions that I did with Peter. You understand why that was hard for me. You understand what my thinking was in that moment. But I, no, it wasn't therapeutic. It wasn't. Maybe it was therapeutic for me.

Oh, maybe. Good. That's what I wanted people to understand. I was like, okay, this is some tea, you know. You really lawyered them up in the fantasy suites. I lawyered everybody up, but I only had three fantasy suites. I had a legal pad. I had questions. It was a real thing for me because I knew, and I say it in the book, I knew America was going to be obsessed with Peter.

Before there was a Tyler Cameron, there was a Peter Krause. And they were. And I just knew it. I just knew how they would, because I knew how I felt about him. And I knew how he could walk into a room and what my feelings were. And so I was like, the moment people see him,

and he was very humble and he was a nice guy from the Midwest. And I was like, oh, they're going to fall for him like crazy. So it was important for me to have those conversations as well with him to see what his reaction was, to see how he understood it, to see if he was going to buy into what I was saying and how he would answer a question of would you be the bachelor. People were mad about me. I did get some pushback about that. People were a little upset. people were mad about me I did get some pushback

about that like people were a little upset yeah then I asked him if he was the bachelor you know how he would respond it's like well

of course everybody's going to say yes to being the bachelor you know like no but it's how he answered it it's how he answered the question and then I found out later

he first pretended he would not be interested he gave the you know like I remember being on Andy and Caitlin's season. And it's so long ago, and neither of them asked me that question. But I would have immediately been like,

I'm not interested. Right. Flat out, because I was so, like, locked in. And the way you describe it, he was just like, well, I don't think I would. And then he goes, I mean, well, I have a number. Yeah, he had a number. He had a number.

He thought it out. I don't remember if I've ever told you this and I can't remember if I put it in the book, but I remember when I was on your season, I had just come back from hometowns and we had a good hometown. So it was like on a high. And my mom called the handler

because there was an issue with my dog. And so they made her put the phone on speaker. And so she's like, what are you going to do with Copper? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And right before she got off, she goes, well, you need to figure out what you're going to do with Copper because the rumors are that you're going to be the bachelorette. And then she snatched the phone. And I remember being so upset because I thought, does Nick think that? Is Nick going to think that I'm just trying to be the Bachelorette? Because it wasn't even a thought in my mind at the time.

And so I just- It was a thought in my mind. But it wasn't in mine. Like, I really liked you. And so I was just like, oh my gosh, does he think I just want to be the Bachelorette? That's so untrue. And I got so upset when I was talking to my handler about that. So that, I guess, is what I wanted him to respond.

No, I get it. Because if you're all in, you're not thinking about that until you have to think about that. I mean, you got to give him credit. He was bizarrely honest with you. It just, it was weird. It was just such a weird moment. And then when it was like i heard the number and

i was like okay they're gonna base it off of how much money you make and then he goes why not and then i learned that he was like having these conversations with other people with like producers asking questions about what happens if you win like the whose couch you get to sit on and who yeah yeah yeah you mentioned that you wish they would have aired your fight with Vanessa I well in hindsight I mean back then I did now I'm now I don't you you're glad they didn't well now I see how the at the time I had no idea how the audience would respond yeah I it didn't cross my mind that they would favor Vanessa over me that they wouldn't hear what the argument was or the points that were made.

Because at the time I was like, I made good points. I told, you know, like I said what was true. There was no pushback. Like let it air, let the people see. And I remember being pulled to the side and like, we're not going to hear that. That's, that'll never see the light of day. And I was so upset at the time.

Well, you guys fought and St. Thomas was the first one. With our words, guys. I didn't put hands on anybody. When I was getting choked by Jasmine. No, we didn't fight in St. Thomas. Yeah, that's just when she first pulled you aside. She wrote me a note on the plane. I don't even think I've ever said this before.

She wrote me a note on the plane. Like, can we've ever said this before she wrote me a note on the plane like can we have a conversation or we need to talk or something like that or are you do you like me i remember literally taking jasmine over to this picnic bench about to send her home and i remember like i think vanessa pulled you you two were talking over on the beach i don't know if it was a big fight yet but it it was like, it was the volleyball date. It was that group date. At the volleyball date? That night. Oh,

that night. Do you remember how mad I was that night? I don't remember anything. She probably did pull me to the side. You guys like talked and it was like, it was the first, it wasn't the big blow up in Bimini. No, it wasn't.

But it was, it must've just been a cordial conversation. Cause I was going home. I was going to go home that night. I don't even remember if it was that cordial. Cause I just been a cordial conversation because I was going home I was going to go home that night I don't even remember that cordial because I just remember

being like stop doing this Vanessa I don't even remember to be honest I remember I was trying to go home yeah she wrote me like let's talk

it was nothing really happened until we had the argument in Bimini I remember being told that you guys were fighting yeah that's funny

yeah we but they set us, they made us sit and talk with each other. It was like, I'll never forget. I was sitting on the couch. You're like, you're going to sit on the couch. You're going to pretend you're reading. She's going to tap you on the shoulder.

And at the time I was like, well, why does she get to tap me on the shoulder and make it seem like she was the bigger person? Do you know why they had you do that? Why? Well, my theory would be, because when they're filming that show is like they always just like they were like we're never going to use that because they had an idea of what they thought was

going to happen they thought i was going to pick vanessa they thought they are hoping to make you the next bad charade but things change who knows like i could have changed my mind and had I just said guys it's Rachel or guys it's Raven you know I've I've something happened that fantasy with Vanessa and I I don't feel the same at all like it would have changed and had I not picked Vanessa her edit would have been extraordinarily different mm-hmm and then they would have aired it, I think. And you would have looked like a queen. I don't think so. No, you wouldn't have been.

I don't think, as I mentioned earlier, like no one wins 100%. You know, someone might win the fight, but you still have 30 people taking the other side, so to speak. And so, yes, you would have had your critics, if for another reason, the same reason you've had critics when you're like, how could people not take my side when Hannah Brown's saying the N-word and I'm just saying that's not okay.

Or I do an interview and somehow I'm a mastermind at making people say certain things. So I feel you on that, but I definitely think you would have had Bachelor Nation in your corner. Should we start with Masked Singer? Oh, go ahead. Okay, so for context for everyone, the Masked Singer show on Fox is a show where celebrities compete in very elaborate costumes on a singing show. And as they are eliminated, their identities are finally revealed. eliminated, their identities are finally revealed. During taping, it was revealed that Rudy Giuliani, who was a former personal lawyer to Trump and also involved with the events of January 6th, was one of the contestants on The Masked Singer. And one of the hosts, Ken Jeong,

walked off, joined by Robin Thicke. What do we think about that also rachel very curious like as someone who's been a host and been in many performance situations how have you what do you think about like the blend between like personal ideology and sort of i guess professionalism as it relates to duties as a host rudy rudy giuliani is a big fat no. I don't even understand how this like made it through. Are you surprised? Yes.

It's different though because my show's on Fox. There's a difference between that and like Fox News. There really is. Fox Sports is like its thing. Fox News and then there's Fox like what Extra is on. He is still extremely controversial. He's been, you know, subpoenaed to testify. He's admitted that he lied to millions and millions of people and put out misinformation in regards to the election. So it's like, why are we even interested? And then let's not forget what he did on,

what did he do with Sacha Baron Cohen's movie? Let's not even forget that. Oh, the subsequent Borat movie film. He is so disgusting. Like nobody wants to see that. Keep the mask on and go away. I just, who thought this was okay? This isn't the same thing as Sean Spicer.

It's not even in the same realm. Do we even like him? I don't even know if Republicans like him at this point. I couldn't agree more. The cynic in me, knowing it's a masked singer. Okay. So usually it's not like, say, Dancing with the Stars or American Idol, where you

you watch these people you get to know them you root for them it's this masked celebrity you don't even see until the very end and I actually

my friend Rumer Willis was on the first season I got to go watch a taping and even the people who watch have to wear masks because

you don't they you can't their friends or family can't be seen to give it away. Very cloak and dagger. And yet, this story was leaked before the season has even been aired. Never has happened before. It hasn't. And the cynic in me just feels like this is all PR.

Sure. And it's not accidentally linked. And I agree with you. So do you think Ken was in on it in that case? I don't think the judges were in on it. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't performative. You know, sometimes, yeah.

Like in reality TV, we know that the hosts can be very much intimately involved with production so who knows but knowing that the story leaked it makes the whole thing feel more disingenuous to share just because they're so cloak and dagger about information getting out. Rudy Giuliani, everything that Rachel said is true and the guy literally was involved

in the potential takeover of a country. Like insurrection, yeah. Which is like, but you know, the cynic in me also is like, I'm not shocked

that they clearly did it for the buzz. People will tune in and watch now. Can you think of anybody who's more likely to break an NDA than Rudy Giuliani?

Like for a show that is supposed to be secret, like that man runs his mouth like it is no one's business. and watch now. Can you think of anybody who's more likely to break an NDA than Rudy Giuliani? Like, for a show that is supposed to be secret, like, that man runs his mouth like it is no one's business. And the cynic in me thinks they knew

exactly, whoever they are knew exactly what they were signing up for. I think that it's definitely a PR move, but I think in the sense

that I personally think that once they saw the reaction from Ken and Robin, that they leaked it. But I think in the sense that I personally think that once they saw the reaction from Ken and Robin, that they leaked it. But I think when they saw how strong of a reaction they had, they were like, oh, this didn't go over quite as well as we thought.

And I think they leaked it before people saw it on their television screens just to prepare you like, okay, so just so you know, this is coming. But like, ew, ew. And if you talk to anybody who's been on that show, it is extremely secretive. Absolutely. Should we jump to the next one? Sure. Okay. So I'm sure there will be updates between when we have taped this and when this airs, but there's been a lot of back and forth between Kim and Kanye. Most recently, there was the controversy about Kanye

on his Instagram calling out Kim for letting their daughter North be on TikTok. What do we think about one, sort of the way that this feud has transpired and the back and forth between them, but then also how do we feel about like the privacy of celebrities and their children and how does that change kind of any kind of conflict

or dynamic when you add kids into the mix if you are parents who are separated and you have kids together and i'm not married i don't have kids with someone i'm divorced with so maybe it's easier said than done and i recognize there's complications you would think that would fall under the things you should agree on um i do sometimes think sometimes people make a bigger deal of it than it is like there's plenty you know if a parent doesn't want to put their kids on social and i've seen especially like celebrity parents will like if their kids in the picture they'll put like an emoji over their face or something like that if they want to do that that's fine i don't think the parents who don't do it are any lesser of parents than the ones who are doing it like i don't think there's a

oh you don't do that you know you don't you don't protect your kids identity like i think it's to each their own he also says the exact quote was like this is my first divorce so i don't know how to like get my child off of tiktok against my will which is like very shady being is my first divorce. So I don't know how to like get my child off of TikTok against my will, which is like very shady being like my first divorce at Kim, divorce number three. Like, first of all, I find the whole Kim and Kanye thing extremely exhausting. Like I can't even imagine being like Kim in this situation

because Kanye keeps, you know, like bringing all this attention to their divorce and their children and just everything around it, making videos saying, I can't come to the birthday party, but then having this very public fake relationship with Julia Fox. And it's just, it is so, I could care less. But what I will say is that it's hard for me to say okay kanye you're so concerned about your child north in particular being on tiktok but didn't you say in front of a whole crowded audience that there was a time when abortion was being considered in regards to north like he cried and said that in front of an audience when he was on his tour when he was running for president like he cried and and spoke

about that and so he exposed so yeah he put that out there not that it was ever being considered but he it was like i guess a con like he put kim's business out there in regards to north north can google that she can find that you but you want to get on her for being on tiktok when you have put family business out there he's got selective privacy concerns yeah Yeah, but it's exhausting. I can't. And I'm not like, I don't follow the Kardashians as much as say maybe other people might do. But I think both Kanye and Kim have been accused of doing things for publicity. And they both do.

Yeah. accused of doing things for publicity. And they both do. Yeah. And so when something like this is happening, which is very personal and very intimate and any parent who has been divorced, I'm sure can relate even to Kim and Kanye, who are two of the most unrelatable people in the world. Mm-hmm. Where are we able to decide when one or both or neither are, oh, this isn't for publicity. This is genuine versus like, you know what I'm saying? Because so much of what they do is for attention, even the appearance of covertly.

Like sometimes they're like, oh, they're wearing t-shirts that say, give me attention. And sometimes it's more like, oh my God, I didn't know you guys would be here kind of attention. And so it's kind of like with them, it's how do you know? I would say kids draws a line.

And Kim has put out a statement in regards to him coming out and talking about TikTok, North being on TikTok. And I read it and I was like, I get it. I get it. She talks about how she has her own TikTok because it's a way for her to be creative. And she monitors it.

Most of North's TikToks, Kim's right there with her. So I feel like that's where the line is being drawn is I believe her. On a slightly lighter note, but still related to kids. Of course, Rihanna is pregnant and she's expecting her first kid with ASAP. It's going to be a sexy kid. The most gorgeous kid ever to live. But just like sex, like ASAP Roxy. Is ASAP Roxy sexy?

He's like. No, very, very handsome. I went to his concert and I was like, that's a sexy motherfucker. Like, I was like. It's affecting. And then there was also, you know, in other pregnancy news, this is from the past, but Nick and Priyanka. And so I'm curious, like with celebrities and as people who are public figures and appeared on a reality show, there's a certain degree of like implied consent of you put yourself in the public eye. And so therefore we have a right to discuss

matters of your personal life. With kids, there's not that same amount of consent or it's only happening through parents. And so I'm curious what you think in general around how Nick and Priyanka were able to keep their pregnancy entirely secret. And part of that was because it was surrogacy. But what are your thoughts on kids' right to

privacy and parents' right to assert that? That's kind of hard in Bachelor Nation. Yeah, it's hard. Well, Bachelor Nation has monetized babies. That's what I'm saying. It's kind of hard. You've seen it a lot. I mean, it's funny and I know it's true and I'm not even knocking it because I can't even say that I won't do it. I don't know. But people are naming kids. I guarantee you everyone in Bachelor Nation is having a baby,

is going on Instagram when they're thinking about names and being like, is this available? It's a thing. So I mean, and it's been controversial in Bachelor Nation because some people think that Bachelor people exploit their children just a little too much. I don't really, I'm not of that belief.

As their parents, it's their right to navigate that situation the way they see fit. And I guess that's just how I look at it. I don't know how I'll be. You ask me now, and Brian and I are kind of pretty private already, and I feel like I'd be that same way about my child so I it's to each their own yeah you know kind of like what they like yeah I wouldn't I don't think there's like a right way and wrong way same it's also crazy because we're learning about this in real time like I think about how I got Instagram at some point like probably in high

school but we're having this first wave of kids where their parents all have Instagrams and they're doing birth announcements where who they have this presence on social media from day one yeah I I'm more concerned as a hopeful parent not about um like if I want to put my kid on Instagram like I'm not going to cover their face with an emoji. Like, I mean, yeah, there's crazy people out there. I might do that. And if you want to, that's fine.

I'm more concerned with formative years. Two, three, four. Four is the year you either become a narcissist or you don't. Those are when- Is that true? Yeah. That's a, it's a narcissist. Like at four kids,

I've learned this from Darlene, have the awareness of like, it's all about them, four year olds. And then at like five or six, they learn about like, there's, it's not just about me.

And then they learn about rules and boundaries and things like that. And I would be worried about constantly taking pictures and what is my kid observing about us and their own identity? That's what I would be most concerned about, their own narcissism and that. That would concern me and that's something I'll be mindful of. And just like that, there is most recently, Sarah Jessica Parker was quoted saying she doesn't necessarily want Kim Cattrall to return. It's unclear if that would even be a matter.

I don't want just like that to return. If there would even be a season two. Yeah. Did they confirm season two? It's completely unconfirmed. There's rumors. It's a topic of discussion it was brutal

it was brutal we all hated it right it was awful but it can only go up from here it can't get worse

the bar is on the floor the bar is on the floor and of course Sarah Jessica Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't want Kim Cattrall to come I do

she would be a star oh my gosh she would save it she already was a scene stealer. She would save it. People are, it's created this buzz even more so.

The fact that she's not there, people desire her to be a part of it even more. Yeah, there's no, I watched it throughout. I hated every minute of it partly because I kept thinking

it was going to get better and it never did. So surely season two can be a lot better. It's like the bad boyfriend you keep making excuse for. And you're like, he's going to pull it off this time. It's dark. I can go all into it.

It's just stop trying to rectify what you did before. We watched it. Maybe it was problematic in some ways, but we accepted that. And that's what I wanted to see again. You know, like I can say this as a black person, the way they were glorifying black people on the show

it was so forced so extra everything about it was extra from that to everything Miranda was a meter of Karen I was related to Miranda yes she was the only person that like I liked

at the end of it all until Nick do you consider yourself if you had to 100% Miranda That like I liked at the end of it all until. Nick, do you consider yourself if you had to tag yourself? 100% Miranda. Okay. And this is why we get along. And that's why we know. She's the only one who made sense ever.

She's the only one who made sense. We started this new thing like a month ago because I do that Ask Nick, which you've helped before. We love Ask Nick. We love. This is similar. It's mediation. Couples call it.

And seeing as that we're not professionals, we mediate. So that means we can't have an opinion? No, we do. Okay. Oh, no. So far, mediation has been, well, we didn't really know what to expect, right?

First, we were like, are guys going to like, come on? Of course they are. They have. And the guys always think they're going to get roasted. But so far, it's really gone really positively where we haven't taken sides. This is not like Judge Judy

where you're like, you're wrong and here's the penance. Oh, no, we can't do that. Well, it just hasn't happened yet. It can. I mean, if someone calls in and we're just like, well, you're definitely wrong. First of all, you're an idiot. But it's been more of a, this is my point of view. How's it going, guys?

Doing well. How are you? Good. What are your names? My name is Kylie. I'm 28 years old. My name is Tyler. I'm 25. All right. Who wants to start? I'll start. So I wrote in because, well, we've been together for five years and we've lived together for four. We bought a house a year ago, have two dogs. So we're in pretty deep.

Are you guys dating, engaged, married? Dating. We've kind of had this reoccurring issue. So a specific incident was last Friday. I'll just say the facts and no feelings involved. I work from home and he was off last Friday. So he came into the office, kissed me goodbye and was like, I'll be back by 12. And I was like, okay, no problem. I'll see you then. And then it was 1.30 a.m. 12 in the afternoon, sorry, 12 p.m. And then 1.30 rolls around and he still wasn't home. I hadn't heard from him so i sent him a text and i was like hey i have a meeting at two are you going to be home before then and he was like yeah definitely i was like okay cool and then it was like 1 55 i'm like are you

going to be home he was like yeah and he just didn't show up to like 3 30 and this is just like a situation we deal with it's kind of and i't, I didn't even care that he was out late. I just want, want the communication to be there. This happens a lot. Semi-frequently. And then when you, this happens, what do you say to him? I usually get really upset and he like admits that he's wrong, but I, it just keeps happening. How do you, when you, when you say you get really upset,

what do you mean? I try to explain them, like I'm not, neither one of us are very confrontational. So we have never like yelled, screamed, got into an argument like that. I usually try to explain to him why I'm upset and like how I have really bad anxiety.

Like when you don't come home and you say you're going to come home, I'm Googling car accidents in our city, stuff like that. So I try to explain why I'm upset rather than just be overly dramatic about it. And your anxiety is coming from a place of generally his safety, or are you going down any other rabbit holes when he falls off the grid? or are you going down any other rabbit holes when he falls off the grid? It's mostly safe safety,

but I do get my mind down rabbit holes. If it's like, if it keeps going, like if he doesn't answer me within an hour, it just gets worse and worse and worse as the time goes on. And like, I obviously trust him, but something in my mind is like, you shouldn't. And then I just, I have all him, but something in my mind is like, you shouldn't. And then I just, I have all these crazy stories in my head. And then I'm like, oh my God, one day we're going to have a kid and he's like, not going to be there to pick them up on time. And I just like spiral.

Okay. But he like, so when you do bring it up, he's just like, sorry, but that's as far as it goes. But he's apologized for the same thing multiple times now. For years. Correct. For years. that's as far as it goes but he's apologized for the same thing multiple times now for years correct for years uh and i'm assuming at this point the i'm sorry is as frustrating as anything it is and it's like i it doesn't mean as much to me and it's making me resent like when he goes out out it's almost like i don't want him to go out because i know it's going to end up in a situation

where not lies but like he's not honest about what time he's coming home and i'm beginning to like resent his hobbies all right if that makes sense it makes all the sense it makes total sense now uh thank you for uh a i feel like i i don't think you know the men here should get credit for doing basic things but this is an audience of men, mostly women. And I recognize that my guess is you came on, you are getting the frustration. So I just want to say, thanks for allowing this to happen. That being said, what is your story, sir? Any holes?

What's your version of this? And where do we go from there uh so there are no holes for sure she's uh she's pretty spot on um usually this scenario comes up when it comes to um nights out my nights out are usually few and far between. So I always feel a little guilty when it comes to going out and spending the night, especially when I'm out late. It comes to like... How hard is it to text? The text isn't hard. It's not.

And she does have my location, which is something that maybe I overvalue. In my mind, she has my location. So therefore... You don't want the text. Right. Yeah. No, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, not every couple does that.

I don't do that with Natalie. Do you and Brian share each other's locations? Mainly because I don't know how. And we can talk about that later. But that's certainly, you're offering a, here's my location. I'm assuming it's something you forget that you've even done, but you have, I think for a lot of,

I think there's probably a lot of women listening wishing their partner shared their location actually no that would drive me crazy because because I think that I would obsess over it I would constantly start looking up because I have the access to do you do that Kylie sometimes if I if I don't hear back from him I try not to be crazy but sometimes I am I don't think it's crazy it's try not to be crazy, but sometimes I am. I don't think it's crazy. It's just you have access to it. Like it's there

and you know that you can and so you do. How does it make you feel when you hear Kylie say that she gets anxious and she goes down into a dark place because you won't communicate

with her where you are or your exact time you're going to be home? And obviously, this has been going on for years. So I'm very curious is since you haven't changed that behavior, how does that make you feel when she says that? It does make me feel incredibly guilty. I'm definitely not proud or happy that she feels this way. And like when she expresses to me, usually the next morning, how upset she is, is not a good feeling so like her being upset why do you why do you think you're like forgetting is there like an absent mind in this are you like focused on your buddies you don't get to see like if you could offer an excuse what would that excuse

be other than like not giving shit, because it doesn't seem like you don't give a shit. Right. And it's not that. It's that somewhere deep down, I know that she doesn't want me to be out until two or three in the morning. Okay. And I feel like subconsciously I'm feeding the, I'll be home by midnight line so she feels better about me going out in the first place so what if and is he being do you think he's right like if if you were like when you give me home and he was just like you know what babe I'm gonna be I'm gonna keep it real with you I'm gonna let loose tonight I'm coming home at three in the morning uh would you say go have fun?

Or do you think you'd have an issue with that? If it was an every once in a while thing, I would not care at all. I mean, whether he comes home at midnight or two, I'm going to already be in bed. I guess it seems to be, I'm not clear on this. Does he go out a lot or not? No, he does not. He goes just every, he goes out very rarely, but every single time he does, it's like the other night, a couple of weeks ago,

he was like, I'm going to go have two beers. I'll be home by 11. Or he said, I'll be home early. I promise you I'll be home early. Which like, what does that mean to you? Me? Yeah. Before midnight.

Yes. So he came home at 1.15 and woke up the next morning and was so proud. He's like, I told you I'd be home early. I was like, I don't care that you were out, but 1.15 is not early. Nah, it's not. Yeah, you guys, this is a classic case of over-promising and under-delivering. And then while simultaneously like you are sleeping and i guess i think the average person yes we'd all agree that before midnight would be early but like i don't know

got a lot of friends who think 1 15 is pretty darn early so it is just a matter of perspective. What? It's 25. Yeah. It is 25. At 25, 1.15 would be like an early night. And yeah, there is that argument. Because I hear you on the safety. I hear you on the, hey, I'm an anxious person. And when I can't get a hold of you, I know what it's like to ruminate and get paranoid and plant toxic thoughts in my head. I feel you there. But the disconnect is when he's like, hey, babe, I'm going to be home early. You assume before midnight, you go to bed. The next morning,

before midnight you go to bed the next morning you realize he came over at 115 why do you care in that moment like you weren't worrying you were asleep if i'm understanding correctly yeah it's just almost like an honesty thing like i can sense that he doesn't want like i know when he goes out he has the intention to stay out to one or two but he tells me he'll be home at midnight because he thinks that that's what I want to hear. And I just want him to be honest. Like I really would not get upset if once a month, twice a month, he's like, hey, I'm going to go out. I'm going to be out till the bar closes. That's fine with me.

Have you said that to him? I just want him to be honest. I feel like I have. I mean, I think a few years ago when he was going out a lot, I would get mad because work is so crazy and we don't get much. We live together, but we hardly ever spend time together. So there has been moments where he's gone out and just him going out has made me upset.

And I think that's what initiated him feeling like he doesn't want to upset me by going out. So here's what i love about mediation and and we're not there yet with this call yet is because this problem seems so simple right and yet clearly it's not and you need neither of you like there's something more there i don't know what it is like either like yeah maybe it's in the past when you first started dating, he was partying like crazy or not. Because the easiest solution is you're just like, hey, Tyler, you know he's going out. You just kind of stop asking him. It's get home safe, have fun tonight. Meanwhile, if she does ask Tyler, you just say, I'll be probably bar time, but maybe earlier. I'm not sure, but I guess I'll be home when I'm home.

He is an adult. You trust him, right? There's a big difference between coming home at bar time or coming home at five in the morning. You don't need to be doing any of that. You know, you don't need to be doing it. Well, like Kylie, do you go out? Um, not really. You know what I mean? Like that's y'all. It sounds like what you like to do for fun or your interests are different. I don't want to say you live two different lifestyles, but what you like to do and maybe you do, maybe you do, what

you do for fun is different. So because you don't- But specifically what they do for fun on their own time is different. Yeah, what they do for fun on their own time. So it sounds like because you don't take an interest in him raging, I know you're not raging, I'm just kidding. Because she doesn't take an interest in you going out and doing, that's not her thing. I think it's, that's probably maybe the deeper, like it's a deeper issue because you can't relate to one another. What do you do for fun, Kylie? That's a loaded question.

Like when he goes out, when he goes out, what do you do? I usually just stay home and watch TV. Are you watching TV, enjoying it? Are you waiting for usually just stay home and watch tv are you watching a team enjoying it are you waiting for him to come home exactly I feel like I definitely used to watch it to wait for him to come home but I feel like I've been dealing with my anxiety and since I've been on that journey I've been better at not doing that have you ever gone out with him like late night? Okay.

It is really weird, but not really. Like his friends all have girlfriends, but they always go out without the girlfriends. So like we've been together for five years and I've met some of his best friends like three times. It's a little weird. Well, it's more so. And so you would like that to change, Kylie, right? Yeah. I enjoy, I don't love going out drinking till 2 a.m., but I wouldn't mind. Tyler.

I wouldn't mind going with him. Tyler, I love me a guy's night. Don't get me wrong. I love it. But this is excessive. Why isn't there a little bit more balance with your guy friends and all of your girlfriends in terms of like going out like doing dinners with the girlfriends or whatever going out and then once a while having the guys night like why do you think there's such an extreme

in that case? I think it probably comes from only of the four of the three friends that I usually spend most nights out with. Only one of them has a girlfriend who's even from around here. The other two live up. We're about an hour south of Boston and they live up closer to Boston. So typically on a moment's notice or even on a week's notice, they're like not really reachable to get together for like an entire group with us and our girlfriends. So that's kind of just been the culture of the group where we just don't. Yeah. But cultures change. Uh, like I went to dinner with four guys last night and Natalie, she's a cool hang and great time. You know, like, is it impossible that Kylie,

even when it's just, and it's a balance, right? Like we talked about a friend I have whose wife we can't stand because no matter what, she's always showing up. There is like, no, there's no such thing. I don't care. I really, yeah. There's no such thing as guys night with her, you know, no matter what, like, and all the wives like certainly like to come out with us and be involved, but it's just, but that's not what kylie is suggesting here but like it you know you guys are it doesn't have to be so extreme like where's the balance in terms of like every once in a while but like could you imagine like going kylie i mean tell me how you'd feel

you're just like surprised hey do you want to come out with us tonight and you guys have fun and she she literally doesn't even know what it's like to hang out with us tonight and you guys have fun and she she literally doesn't even know what it's like to hang out with you guys am i right here carly do you like sometimes fantasy fantasize like where are they what are they doing who are they talking to it's like it sounds like it's one of those situations where like i yes of course i trust my boyfriend but like like you know you want to know what it looks like I think you need to erase some of the mystery and just take her so she can see what it's like or you Kylie hanging out with one of the other girlfriends I don't know if you do I don't know if you're friendly but or even

hanging out with your own having guys night girls night like something else to distract you or just to, I guess, like take, I don't know, like put your energy into something else. So you're not so fixated on what it is that he's doing. Yeah. You're both, you're both doing like these extremes. Yeah. Carly, you're just like isolating yourself. Even when he thought with these boys, I don't know if it's like, do you have girlfriends or do you have a lot of friends or where are they? What's going on there? I'm not trying to put you on the spot there, but. Oh no, no. I mean, I don't have many, I don't have many hobbies, which I know is part of the problem. I really should get out there and socialize a bit more. But I relate to this

because I am extremely, I'm an extroverted extrovert and my husband is an introvert. And I am so used to picking up and doing things and I'll be like, oh yeah, I'm going to go out and do this. And I forget that maybe I should invite him to this. And I've gotten, this might be you, Tyler, I'm so used to him just allowing me to do it and not really saying anything that I don't necessarily take into consideration how he might feel about not being invited or I'm always on the go. And so I've had to learn to really consider either how that makes him feel or to invite him or to have our own separate date night or encourage him to go do stuff with his friends as well. because he would just be happy if it's just the two of us at home majority of the time. And it sounds like Kylie, that's you. So I think just having the

conversation of, you know, like, what is it that you would like to see or what is it that you would like in five years is a long time. And sometimes you have to re-ask yourself the questions because the dynamic of the relationship has changed, whether it's living situation, career, COVID, quarantine, you know what I mean? So you just have to revisit. And maybe we're getting into the end of it. I don't know if we're supposed to be resolving this at this point. But maybe that's really what it is.

You need to, like Tyler, I can be you. So you need to tap into what Kylie wants and really not just hear her, but understand why she feels the way that she does. And just simple changes could really go a long way. Yeah. And I think to Rachel's point, Kylie, there's nothing wrong with being an introvert. You have all the friends you want or don't want. But yes, it's important in any relationship to have your individuality, like to have your things and your passions,

things that make you feel inspired that are outside of your partner. I think that makes us better partners to feel like we still have our own identity. And I think sometimes in relationships, we will lose that because we become so dependent on our partners. And Tyler, yeah, just like, man, it seems like the simplest of things you could do to avoid these conflicts with Kylie by one, just don't say things you don't mean, like step one. Right. You know?

So true. just don't say things you don't mean like step one right you know so true i'll take the heat early on you know i'll be home when i'm home babe i'll be home when i'm home because you know what you are an adult you don't need a curfew like right i don't you know say it like that but um but truly like no one likes to have i'm an adult like what do you know home metal why do i have to be home at 11 30 i'll be sleeping like do you not trust me like that because yeah it's a it's a snowball of you both but at the same time like it's a it's it's fucking weird that you've been dating for so long you have these bros and these buddies and she barely knows them and she's never been out she doesn't even know what it's like and even if your guy friends don't do that man that goes a long way to just saying to your bro and I think most women correct

me if I'm wrong if you know your your guy says I'm taking my girl out tonight and guys I'm not asking she's coming we're all gonna have a good time be my friend step up make sure she has a great time and like does it that doesn't have to be the new norm but every once in a while yeah it could be fine and it's one of those things too like boy you probably get you might get more bro time because she's she'll just be like a little more chill you know yeah a little more unwound and less angst it's like this great mystery of like what the fuck i wonder what they're doing, what the fuck? I wonder what they're fucking doing out there. Exactly.

You know, I wonder who they're talking to. And Kylie, you have to speak up more and say how you feel. You know, like it's not nagging to say, hey, this is, you know, I wish you would do this more or I'd like to do this or this is how it makes me feel.

Because I think that both of you have become complacent in how the other is. You probably don't say a lot, Kylie. He keeps doing what he's doing and you've just gotten, it's almost like it's starting to build up this resentment towards one another. So, you know, if you can break that away,

like you guys will be golden. Just little things. This is easy. It is, but to your point, it's these things that- Little things. It doesn't feel... You could break up over this.

It feels way more complicated. It's true. Because you haven't talked about it. That's what it is. It just builds up and builds up. Well, you guys are... It's the extremes that you guys are living in. Yeah.

You're not... You haven't found any of your individual hobbies or you're going out time. The only times that you're not waiting for him to come home is when there's something good on TV. And like, there's not always something good. It's not that it's sad. It's just, it's again, you're, you're the dynamic of your relationship. It's both of yours. Yeah. At this point. And cause I empathize with both of you, but you know, there's both things things the good news is there's both things you guys can do to fix this problem it always sucks when the other one's like well whenever

you're ready to fix this problem i'll be waiting like yeah exactly i've i've i've had that relationship sure why we would we went to therapy and i was just did not like how well like i think i was i was basically like yeah i'll go to therapy. And I was like, could you tell her to stop screaming at me? We know that's not you guys. We know that's not you guys. I was like, so when you want to stop screaming at me, I'm slightly exaggerating,

but there's things you guys can both do. And they also, the solutions do seem relatively simple. For whatever reason, you guys just haven't been doing it. Make her feel like you're going to choose her over your friends sometimes. Because there's a little bit of that.

It's always like, is it, you know, oh, because the girls aren't, the other women aren't going out. I can't go out. Yeah.

And it seems like such, so little can go such a long way in this situation. And I think Kylie, you need to find a little bit more of your independence. And I think that would go a long way too. No, I agree. That totally makes sense. All right. I don't know.

Was this helpful? I always wonder. I think that was helpful. We definitely struggle communicating sometimes. So just being here and having to talk, I feel like it's a good start good all right you guys got this this is easy yeah i think we'll make it all right well best of luck guys i appreciate you guys call it in and uh good luck with everything thank you so much all the advice all right take care guys bye rachel thank you so much um my pleasure to be here. It's always good to catch up with you.

I'm glad I'm your favorite ex. You are my favorite ex. It's so true. You and my dog. Not to sound corny, but I remember sending you home. And yes, I knew I was going to pick Vanessa then. I had such a mutual respect for you. And I remember sending you home. And I remember saying, I'll always have your back.

And I remember thinking, I really hope I become friends with Rachel. There was a sincere thought. And I didn't know if it was possible because I you know, I was going to get engaged to Vanessa. That might be weird. I didn't really know what's going to happen with you. But there was a sincere hope that we would become friends. And I feel like we are. And I'm thankful.

Me too. I'm friends with a few of my exes. And I prefer it that way because I feel like you've gone through something together in life, even if it is on The Bachelor. But it's so funny. I knew I was going home that night. Like I could feel it. I had like written the letter to Raven and all these things. But when you sent me home, it like really hit me.

I was like, I'm not going to cry. Like, no, I'm going home. It is what it is. He's picking Vanessa. And I was like, you started talking. And I was like, oh, no. I'm going to miss him. I felt like I could always make no I felt like I could always make I felt

like I could always uh we we had a we had a nice uh like when you were describing your book when I gave you the the first impression rose it really took me back to I forgot that I I said uh I joked how you should go you should just leave now yeah no we we I'm glad we're still friends like this is people could learn from us I hope so it's always a pleasure good luck on the book please let people know where they can find your book um you can get the book anywhere you can go to my Instagram page click my link tree and all the places that you get books you can go to penguin random houses website and type in miss me with that and you can also find the book wherever. But support independent bookstores.

Both a good read for Bachelor and non-Bachelor fans. Yes. Yes. Thanks for listening. Have a good week. Send in your questions at asknickacastmedia.com, cast with a K, for your mediation calls,

Ask Nick's, subscribe, all that fun stuff. We'll be back next week with the wonderful taylor thomason see you later