The Viall Files - E382 Bachelor Recap With Greg G, Andrew S, plus Clayton

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

Today we are joined by Greg Grippo and Andrew Spencer to break down the latest Bachelor episode and Hot Goss from all around Bachelor Nation. Plus we have The Bachelor himself , Clayton Echard, on to answer all of your burning questions about all the drama on show and how he’s holding up in general. On this episode we ask Andrew and Greg  how likely they are to come to Paradise, about a budding romance involving three dozen roses, and who might have a crush on who in Bachelor Nation. We then reflect on Shanae and ask if she is really a villain off camera, if contestants are getting caught up in the environment of the show, and who makes Clayton light up the most. We then bring on Clayton himself to ask him how he’s handling backlash, if he ever regretted going on The Bachelor, his apology to Elizabeth and why he really sent her home.  “Not many people could get that reaction from a tired Clayton.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Chime: Get started today at http://www.Chime.com/VIALL  Everlywell: Get 20% off your at-home lab test at http://www.Everlywell.com/VIALL  FitOn: Work out for free anytime, anywhere. Text FILES to 64-000 to join FitOn for free!  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @greggrippo @andrewzspencer @claytonechard  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on guys welcome back to another dare i say once once again special episode of the vile files bachelor recap edition uh ally amanda are with me uh happy if you're still listening to this on monday happy valentine's day uh if it's hope hope your valentine's day was wonderful if you were in love and if you're hopefully hopefully you're in a relationship you didn't like break up i feel like valentine's Day is probably one of the more popular breakup days. You think? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like how there's like a very high crime rate on Christmas. You know, like there's a lot of happiness, but there's also because everyone's together, there's some problems. When you force love on people, it doesn't always go the way you expect. You know, love me.

Like, I don't know. It's like a good midterm, youterm you know anyway I hope it was great we have Greg Grippo and Andrew actually I don't even know how do you pronounce your last what's your last name it's just Andrew S Spencer Spencer I guess I just didn't know it no it's so weird How do you pronounce it? Spenceal. Spenceal. I guess I just didn't know it. It's so weird. But did people happen to you a lot?

Well, growing up, I was always called Spencer. So people didn't even know my first name. Spence? I was Spence. I was Spencer Spencer. And then now everyone just says Andrew and Andrew S. Andrew S. Yeah.

Spence. It's kind of like a John B vibe. Come on, man. Does that sting a little bit, Greg? No, no, no. He just uses such a clown. I can't with John B. vibe. Andrew S.

It's kind of cool. I like it. That's cool. Well, we are happy to have you. I got to... We hung out this weekend. Yeah, we did. A lot. It was a good time. I'm getting so excited about getting into the Batch recap. I got to, uh, we, we hung out this weekend. Yeah, we did a lot.

I'm getting so excited about getting into the batch recap. We, we have to let the people know we have Taylor Tomlinson tomorrow. You will not want to miss that. Uh, it will be an excellent interview and pop culture conversation along with a really amazing mediation call with Taylor Thomas. And if you guys want a celebrity guest and myself to fix your relationship,

if you broke up on Valentine's Day, email us and we'll help out. Or if you're on the verge of breaking up, I think, honestly, I think we might be able to help. I don't know. Tune in tomorrow for Taylor. And we have Clayton joining this episode. He'll be calling in. I think

we're going to try to embed Clayton's answers in with our conversations. Or we'll just play it, like, slap it in the middle of this episode, but we got the bat phone call and said Clayton's available. It's like, okay, I guess we'll squeeze him in.

So we'll find out if he is, in fact, lying about his apology and what's going on. Things like, does he regret being the bachelor? Because honestly, he's been taken on the fucking chin. Anyways, hard-hitting questions coming. And let's get to the tea. Anyways, hard-hitting questions coming and let's get to the tea. Okay, great. So there was a big party

on Friday. A lot of Bachelor people. Yeah. Would anyone like to contribute details? I wasn't there, so please. There was a lot of people.

There was. A lot. Heidi Klum. We were watching Justin Bieber with Heidi Klum. I don't know if Heidi Klum

realizes that she was watching with us but needless to say we were we were like right next to Heidi Klum.

That's pretty cool. Kind of a big Good job guys. Is that a Bachelor person? Who's Heidi Klum? That's offensive. I'm so sorry. Is it a TV person?

She's like a supermodel. Arguably the most? She's like a supermodel. Arguably the most supermodel of all supermodels. There's a mountain Rushmore of supermodels, and I think she's on it. Project Runway. She was on Project Runway? She hosted Project Runway.

Is that with Tyra Banks? You guys are in trouble. No, that's America's Next Top Model. I thought it was Tyra Banks as well. That's what I was thinking about. Guys. Yeah, I've never seen her before. Doesn't ring a bell.

Sorry to this woman. Well, Heidi, I noticed you. I'm sorry, Heidi. Natalie noticed you. Victoria Fuller noticed you. These fuckers. We were just honestly floating. Yeah, really.

You know what? We were just kind of. Yeah, really. You know what? We were just kind of. You're just like too busy focused. You're not the only one we mingled with. We were just like. I mean, all the football players. Yeah, we were honestly just looking at the football guys. We were just like.

There were some. Josh Allen. Josh Allen is massive. He's a massive. Massive, massive. So is Miles Garrett. Miles Garrett. Sorry, Bachelor fans.

Back to. Was this the the infamous night in which natalie and corinne met oh uh it was yeah how did that go uh i think you saw the whole thing on my instagram stories i don't think it was all that uh uh intense uh when corinne came on and did the kind of uh that recap I did on my Patreon, she sent Natalie some of her bracelets, and they've followed each other, I think, on Instagram. That's cool.

I think it wasn't like a... She also met Andy Dorfman. That's fun. Yeah. I met Andy's new boyfriend. Real close, yeah. It was a real... Yeah, there was a lot of... Keep it in the family. A lot of bash. There was a lot of... Dorfman that's fun yeah keeping it I met Andy's new boyfriend real close yeah it was a real

yeah there was a lot of keep it in the family a lot of bash there was a lot of keep it in the family I met I met Blake

oh Blake's awesome yeah we love Blake nice guy Blake also did an interview on Friday night in which he spoke about Katie he's been on a few dates since the breakup

do you think his glasses are real or do you think they're fashion frames oh I don't think those are real I think we were getting on there's no his glasses are real or do you think they're fashion frames? Oh, I don't think those are real. I think we were getting on. There's no way

those are real. And I've worn fashion frames before. I'm not, but I didn't have the guts to ask him. It's obvious that you've worn them because you

call them fashion frames. I had no idea there was a name for fake glasses. I learned that from Justin Long. Anyways, what did he say? Okay. He's been on a few dates

since they broke up, but like nothing serious. He doesn't want to do a deep dive. He said, quote, I think in some weird way my He's been on a few dates since they broke up, but like nothing serious. He doesn't want to do a deep dive. He said, quote, I think in some weird way, my breakup hurt me in a sense where I'm finding the more that I fall, the more things I find that I know I don't want in a relationship. I think I have more understanding of exactly what I want. And I think that has made me more picky, but the right person will come along and I'll

know what it is because I've failed so many times now. Yikes. will come along and I'll know what it is because I've failed so many times now. Yikes. Greg, I feel like you're the man to give your thoughts on Katie and Blake. Yeah, I mean,

I... I really thought that they stood a chance. I... Just being in the house with him um he he didn't cause any trouble and you knew that like he was genuinely there for her so it's it's a shame how it went down with them um and like how the breakup ended but i heard a rumor that someone like a source accused Blake of not trying hard. Do you think he tried hard?

Gosh, I don't know. We didn't talk about that. But yeah, we didn't really talk about his relationship at all with her and what happened. It was just kind of mostly catching up and just putting that in the past. But I can't see him not trying hard. He's just a passionate guy. I feel like he gave The Bachelorette all of his,

like when we were on the show. I think that's a great point. He's very passionate. I think he wore fashion frames. That's not a guy who half-ass it. He was like, this can complete the look, and he went for it. Exactly. And I think that speaks to, yeah.

I have a hard time imagining he didn't put the effort in. Andrew? I think, yeah. Go ahead. I think Blake definitely was, you know, him and Katie definitely right off the jump, you kind of saw that that was going to work. You got to loosen this guy up a little.

I do think obviously coming straight out of the gates and going to Africa was probably you know that's a long distance and I think that probably had something to do with it. You think so? Oh yeah. I mean have you ever did a distance relationship?

They never work. No but like all bachelor relationships. When did he go to Africa? Was it before the finale or after the finale? Like right after the finale. So like as soon as they were able to go public and be around each other, he was like, oh, see, I'm going to Africa. Which is like really cool.

How long was he there for? I feel like he was there for a long time. But to back him up on that though, Why was he there for? I feel like he was there for a long time. To back him up on that though, I feel like that has been his plan for a long time. Because he did mention that to us in the house. No, I agree. It wasn't like he brought that up out of nowhere. Do you think Africa heard it more than picnics with John?

Well, she could have went with him, is what I'm saying. I mean, why not go to Africa with him? I suppose, but I also feel like that was probably a very organized trip that he was a part of. It might not have been as easy for Katie to go. Absolutely.

Katie gets her park ranger license. She was packing lunches for her and John on their tickets. Do you want me to cut the crust? Oh, God. I'm sorry, guys. on their pictures. Yeah. Okay. Do you want me to cut the crust? Oh, God. Oh, I'm sorry, guys.

We go for it on this show. Yeah, I know. Holy shit. Over the weekend, Michelle and Nate walked their first carpet together. I don't know if that was on Friday or Saturday night, but she and Rihanna

also got a photo together, which was just an iconic photo because both of them are great. Yeah, good for them we we met Nate you met next weekend he's really great he's did our spot was it Friday night or last week what a last last week yeah oh yeah we met him and Rodney yeah so we had a good time how does Nate look in love. How much did he talk about Michelle? A lot. A lot.

Well, we all asked a lot of questions. Like you, a couple of same guys out there cruising for women, and Nate was like, you know who's also? You know who would? Michelle. Yeah. Well, we're not like those kind of guys, honestly. We go out for just the time with you with the guys and you really did

I mean I can confirm that you were not I don't remember last time I talked to a girl at a bar Actually, you you guys did not talk to a lot of ladies at this party were a lot of ladies you point at me I'm just saying I Just yeah this guy no, No, you're right. No, I mean, like I said, it's kind of just like really hard to just. But you're more of the social butterfly. Greg just kind of stands there with like this glazed look on his face. Kind of like, I mean, I can say that because it's my move.

But Andrew, he's. Yeah. You can talk to anyone. I can, but you just never know now. I just feel like someone's my move. But Andrew, he's... Yeah. I mean, I... You can talk to anyone. I can, but you just never know now. I just feel like someone's always watching. So you're just like trying to like not get caught, like talking to anyone or whatever. So do you feel like you're not allowed to talk to people?

I mean, like to an extent. How so? What do you mean? When it comes to like just any kind of girl, I just feel like someone's always just like, oh, that's him talking. He's dating her. And I feel for him because if he gets that, it's like twice as blown up. You know what I mean?

So I'm like, well, I don't want to be in that realm. Or looked at as a guy who's using his platform just to get women. That's definitely not what I'm here for. And how much is your answer impacted by a desire to go on the beach this summer? Or do you feel that pressure regardless because everyone is a paparazzi with their phones? A little bit of both, I would say. Just knowing that this world is so different from any other. So if you get caught in one little light, it's going to be either used against you in some way or the other.

And I just don't want to get in any way. And to be clear, so when you say get caught, it's like you're not necessarily doing anything wrong. No, not doing anything wrong, but you just don't want that. But like you're saying like you could be flirting with someone you're attracted to, and next thing you know, someone's posting it on TikTok, and then you accidentally scratch your face, and it looks like you picked your nose,

and then you're like, Andrew, Spence. Spence is picking his nose while talking to ladies. Yeah, exactly. And I saw a photo, I think Blake had his hand on Kelly's back, or right here, when they were taking a drink and I was like okay well how do we know that what was going on? Oh sure in a loud atmosphere you kind of

put your hand back there and that's not creepy at all it's kind of like you just kind of put it you don't even touch you just kind of like it's almost like so you don't trip you know and it just started a lot of speculation I'm like you know what i don't want to be in that situation yeah and i'm just kind of just just watching kick off 2022 with a better checking account with no monthly fees chime

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they do it from the comfort of your home. Yeah, I got a food sensitivity test. And it tests for over 204 different potential sensitivities. Because there's simply no way I'm going to take all of the time to cut out and isolate every various food group. But sometimes my tummy is angry. And so I am thrilled to have answers finally and crack this case. It wasn't until I was in college that I realized that STDs can go away and be treated. I thought you just had them for the rest of your life.

So I've never really wanted to be tested in front of another human being because I didn't want to admit something like that. But now I can do it from the comfort of my home. Allie, you're not alone. There's a lot of people like you. Truth is, there's a lot of things you can get uh and take care of so get tested the more you know they just send a very discreet kit to your house you give them a sample of your blood you send it in and just days your physician reviewed results and actual insights

are sent to your device and you can share your results with your primary care physician to help you guide next steps if necessary for our listeners listeners of the show, Everly Well is offering a special discount of 20% off and at a home lab test at everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L. It's everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 20% off your at home lab test, everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L. I'm going to ask you about Andrew. I'll ask Andrew about Greg. I feel like that might be more honest.

Do you think Andrew will go to Paradise if asked? You know, I don't. He wouldn't just go to go. If the right woman wasn't there for him or if he wasn't genuinely interested in someone, I don't think that he would go. But talking to this guy, I know that he's interested in people.

So I think that he's definitely going to go. I mean, yeah. He has his eye on a few of them. Can he say? I'll give you… You definitely have to say. You know what? I don't think you told Nick.

You're allowed to have a crush, man. I got to live a little bit. Okay. All right. If you can… Dropping my crushes on Valentine's Day. How about you guys? Because you know what? Nick knows us a little bit. Okay. All right. Well, if you get dropping my crushes on Valentine's day. How about you guys? Cause you know what?

Nick, Nick knows us a little bit too well. If you guys could guess one person that Andrew's interested in, who do you guys think it is? I don't, I really, I'm curious what they have to say, but I don't have a guess actually. Oh, okay. Okay. Eliza, because you guys both are international. Mr. And Mrs. Worldwide.

Okay. And I don't know who, Eliza know who she's um the one who's like has like the most radiant smile and lives in berlin and she took clayton to do the mirror thing oh so fun oh on this season yeah yeah striking yeah absolutely oh yeah i actually when we're watching this episode i was was watching with actually Victoria and Natalie. Victoria stayed at the house this weekend. And I was just like, every once in a while, you're just reminded how just like she pops off the page.

Yeah. So beautiful person. What about Susie? I think Susie either wins or is an expat. I agree. Sorry. No, those are good answers. But who? Just spare us the, who do we got? I agree. Sorry. No, those are good answers. Those are actually really good answers.

But who? Just spare us the, who do we got? Who's in your top three? Who's in my top three? Wow. We're just, just a preface. Just people you'd like to get to know. You're interested.

You're not proposing. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just like, you're curious to learn more. That's not a crime. My top three. Andrew's top three. Curious to learn more. That's not a crime. My top three. Andrew's top three. Curious to learn more about. I would wait from just from Clayton season or just.

Anyone who might find themselves on a sandy beach. Well, I would say my top three is probably. Serene, Teddy, Susie, and Bree Springs, but she's got a whole. She's got a man. She's got a man-man. So yeah, those are probably the ones. Serene also pops off the page.

Yeah, she's beautiful. Yeah. I'm playing a pretty good part. He's like, I'm not going to say. Yeah. I mean, those three. I would say Serene, Teddy more. Because obviously, you know, Susie's probably.

Well, I thought, I don't think Teddy wins. And I'm less convinced she'll ever be the Bachelorette than before. So I think Teddy or Serene. And he's just interested in learning more. You haven't slid into any of their DMs? Oh. No. No. No.

No, I haven't. But I have somehow ended up talking to them. It was just… They slid into yours. Okay. No. It was… At an event.

Like a mutual friend was like on the phone with him. And I just said, hey, how you doing? Had like a short conversation. Okay. They were together, Teddy and Serene? No. Or two separate, a mutual friend. What is this, like a speed dating?

I think we should normalize that. Like adding two people to a group chat and being like, I think you guys should hook up and then just leaving the group chat with them. You know? This mutual friend of producer? I've done that before. Really? Oh, yeah.

Was it effective? That's really smart. You haven't done that with me. Why haven't you hooked me up, bro? You didn't need the help. I mean, my friend was out in Austin and then one of my girlfriends was going to Austin. I was just like, hey, you know what's perfect?

You guys should meet. And then they didn't meet, but I still did it. That's great. Andrew, do you think Greg will go on the beach if asked? You know, I think if the right one is there, I think he could definitely make it.

I need a, that's, I need a more of a, that's not an answer. Right now, right now, I don't, honestly,

I don't think he needs the beach. No one needs the beach. Do you think he needs the beach? Well, not needs, but like, I don't think, you know,

I think, I think he's good without it. But I don't know. He's kind of a mysterious guy. He kind of leos with the flow. Whatever happens, happens. But at this moment, I do not think he will go. At this moment, you don't think he will go?

No. Okay. If he were to go, who do you think he'd be interested in? I would say Rachel. Rachel for this season. Yeah. Who I also think wins. I think Rachel wins.

Yeah, me too. I think she wins. Or Gabby. I could see Gabby because she's got a great personality. Gabby. Do you see you in Gabby? I No. I mean I have no problem saying this I don't see

myself going to the beach right now I'm actually seeing someone at the moment so spoiler does she live in Paris when you say seeing someone are you in a committed relationship what's going on?

Bro just bought three dozen roses, by the way. You bought a rose for Valentine's Day? You've got to be kidding me. So Greg Gripbo got a lady three dozen roses on Valentine's Day. That's sweet. That's a great gesture. I mean, yeah.

He's a romantic, man. He's a romantic. I mean, hey, you know what? I've been someone I genuinely want to find someone you know

and I don't necessarily like dating around you know as soon as I feel like I click with someone

I'd like to see where it goes so I mean yeah it's a little tough like you said it's the whole Paris situation

so but giving it my best shot at the moment say it Perry is that how you what is it we want to go to

Nelly and I are trying to go to Paris this year so maybe we'll get a chance to double date meet your girlfriend well

congratulations on this budding love appreciate it what else we got Allie Tayshia is on daytime TV now so she's just finding more passion she's a bright light as well she like hosting What else we got, Allie? Tayshia is on daytime TV now.

So she's just finding more passion. She's a bright light as well. Is she hosting? She went on The Good Dish, which is like a cooking recipe show. And she walked them through a Paloma recipe. And she, of note, she was introduced as the co-host of The Bachelorette.

She was not introduced as the former Bachelorette or anything like that. So, interesting tidbit. Interesting. I still don't think she'll be back. As host. Once you have Jesse Palmer telling America, hey, if you're looking for,

we're looking for people like you. I actually met him. He's really cool. Yeah. He's a nice guy. You know who else we met? Rachel Lindsay. We love Rachel Lindsay.

I can't say enough good things about her. Love her. She needs daytime TV. Gem of a human being. Yeah. She's like vibrant. She saw Greg and I was like, oh, I got to introduce Greg. And she acted like she knew him for like 10 years.

That's great. People don't usually do that, I feel like. I feel like, especially someone of her stature, I feel like it's very easy to blow someone off or not act like. She made me feel like very important and made me she was very giving in that situation like the next thing we saw her she introduced me right away to her friends I was like Jesus I love this woman

yeah no and she was having a good time the nicest person I've met great vibes like love her absolutely love her 10 out of 10 yes of a human being probably she's great would you give me like an 8

7 you no no we love you oh we love you dude what do you mean come on now

thinking about me no Rachel's great she was oh you know who I met at I met Maggie the pharmacist she finally made it

out of the river after her little paddle situation. Forgot about that. She was on Matt James' season. Pharmacist. Clayton issued the apology to Elizabeth saying that

if he'd known about what was actually going on that he couldn't see, he would have sent Sinead home right away. He complimented her for being neurodivergent and talking about that and he didn't know. Lindsay W. was then sent home I believe the week after

and posted a TikTok that she had talked to Clayton about the whole situation. And Lindsay W. is the one of the blondies. One of the blondies.

Yeah. All right, go ahead. And she had posted a TikTok saying that that actually wasn't true because she'd spoken to Clayton about the situation and had mentioned Elizabeth's ADHD

or her being neurodivergent in some way. Did she specify what she said? I can play the TikTok right now. Okay. Ready? So tonight on The Bachelor, I was sent home, but there's one thing that I wanted to address before I give my final goodbye.

And that is this, Clayton's apology to Elizabeth that he posted on his Instagram stories a couple weeks ago. As you can see, he said that if he would have known what was going on, he would have sent Shanae home immediately. However, let me take you back to this night. After the Baywatch date, Clayton chose to spend our time asking me about the drama in the house and why Shanae felt so bullied in the mansion.

And I explained to him, word for word, that I would never want anyone to feel bullied. However, when someone is mocking and making fun of someone's mental disabilities, that's crossing the line. And I don't want to surround myself with people like that. So I'm not going to go out of my way to be their best friend. At the end of the day, everything happens for a reason and no hard feelings. We can cut it off after everything happens for a reason.

Do you think Clayton's lying? Or does it matter? Or what do you think her intentions are? That's what I want to know. What do you think her intentions are? That's what I want to know. What do you think her motives are? I just, after hearing it,

I really feel for Clayton just because like, I mean, this process isn't easy. So, I mean, especially when like so many different people

are in your ear at once, I can only imagine what that's like. And, I don't know. Sometimes you just want to give them the benefit of the doubt. You know? I mean, he just... I feel like he's giving it his best shot right now. Right.

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That's F-I-L-E-S 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. Terms available at fitonapp.com slash terms. What do you think Lindsay's motives are? What would you say her motives are for making that text? If I were to say her motives are for people to try to remember her name, do you think, would you agree or disagree? I would agree.

I just know she's probably going to get a little fine for something or do some decisions. Like that was smart. I don't know. I don't know why that I wouldn't do that, especially right out. That's probably not the smartest thing. But I feel bad because I hate that in this world now we have to apologize for everything. And I feel really bad for him having to apologize in that.

Well, that's the thing. I wish he didn't apologize. Yeah, I don't think he did. He apologized. Well, I mean, if Lindsay't think he did. He apologized. Well, I mean, if Lindsay is telling the truth, then whatever. Also, it's not clear because she did not specify in that that she said anything about ADHD or neuro. She said mental disabilities.

Sure. It's vague. I mean, if I'm Clayton, I'd just be like, sorry, my attention was focused on other people. And I'm sure Elizabeth can appreciate that. Yeah, or if he goes to Elizabeth personally and be like, hey, I'm sorry about this. But I mean, it doesn't need to be a public.

Yeah, I mean, Clayton's taking one on the chin. I think the producers, you guys don't have to come you know on the show I try to like I really try to give people the honest answer when when cast members you know complain about producers and blame everything I've said this last week but like once in a while like I think the producers got greedy with Clayton I think they got a bachelor who was willing to be super easy to work with. I was, I tried to be super easy to work with. Right. But there were times it's like any relationship, right? You, you try to push you, you have boundaries. I'm not going to cross this line. Okay, fine. They're making a TV show. Let's not pretend they're not making a TV show. And every once in a while, you're like,

TV show. Let's not pretend they're not making a TV show. And every once in a while, you're like, all right, fine. Fuck it. I'll jump in the bouncy castle. Like, fine. Can you give me this? There's like some negotiation going on. And I feel like, and I don't know this, this is just my guess that Clayton was super easy to work with. And I think they got a little, I think they got a little greedy. I think they didn't appreciate, and I've said this before, the audience is different. This is not Sean Lowe's audience. So when you had the Tiaras or whatever, the classic villains that Sinead is, you know, Sinead isn't the first time we've had someone like her on the show, like say these kind of off-putting things and be ignorant or whatever. But the way people respond and the expectations they have of their bachelor, I think is so

different. And I just think Clayton's absolutely taking it on the chin. I don't know. Let's see what Clayton has to say. Did Clayton lie in his apology? Yeah, it was frustrating to see that TikTok because, listen, here's the thing. I'm not a liar. I'm not trying to hide anything. As people will see going forward in the show, I stress transparency. And no matter how much I want to try to withhold something, that's just not my character. I want to always to withhold something, that's just not in my character. I want to always be honest because again, I think if you're not, it'll end up coming to bite you at some point.

And so, no, I was a little frustrated that I saw that TikTok in here. To set the record straight, I'm not lying. What she said in her TikTok was that she had addressed the fact that Sinead was attacking Elizabeth's mental health. And so that is what she said in the video. And I'm not going to sit here and dispute whether or not that she made that comment, because there is a possibility. I will say that there is a possibility that maybe she did say that to me, but that's very vague. And in that realm, that's exactly what Sinead was saying all the other women were doing in the house. And so I, again,

at that point, we're talking a weekend to knowing these women and I don't have any trust established. So I'm just trying to take things to what they are at face value, But I'm hearing mental health being attacked over here, mental health being attacked over there. And this is where I had to figure out who exactly was the culprit. I do want to stress, though, that as I said in my post, I did not know that Sinead was mocking Elizabeth for having ADHD. I did not know that Elizabeth had ADHD until I watched the show back with everybody else. And that I stand by. And I do not recall ever having a conversation about that particular topic. But is there a chance Lindsay may have said,

she's attacking her for her mental health? Yeah. I mean, I listen, there was so much going on. I was building so many relationships elsewhere and focusing on so many things that maybe she did say that. And it just didn't really resonate. And I didn't understand the severity of it at the time. Yeah. That, that seems more than fair, especially knowing the position,

knowing what it's like to be in the position you were in. I mean, personally, I, I, I think Lindsay made the tick tock for attention and I don't think she gave a shit about her friend. I mean, personally, I think Lindsay made the TikTok for attention, and I don't think she gave a shit about her friend. I don't know if you have a comment on my opinion, Clayton, but that is my opinion. I don't want to make accusations per se. I think

that, again, if she feels that she said it, I don't know, maybe that's the way that she recalls it. I don't want to sit here and say with her full certainty. And that's where I, again, I want to be very particular with what exactly I'm talking about. When I say that I did not know about her having ADHD and being attacked and mocked for that. So there's, again, I don't, maybe she just feels that, Hey, I did tell him about it, but it but the way that it resonated with me was, okay, she's attacking her and her mental health is being harmed. But that was where Sinead was saying the same thing. of what I knew and what was being told to me, which truthfully wasn't as much as what obviously people are seeing now. This is the Sinead drama.

It really has been monumental on this season so far. It's taken up a lot of time. But as you all saw from this, even this last episode, there's a lot of strong connections being formed. There's love in the air, though. It's the feelings are there. And I think some people will go, well, where did this come from? All of that was happening. I was building all these other strong connections while this drama was going on. And I probably, maybe I didn't give it the attention that it deserved because I was so focused on finding what was best for me. And, you know, everyone has their own stories.

And some people, obviously, again, were more into that drama. And that was maybe a big part of their journey. But I can tell you, I was doing everything that I thought was best for myself. And that was, again, sometimes, maybe I didn't focus so much on the drama because I didn't want to be in a negative mindset.

I was trying to focus on establishing strong connections. People like to pile on right now. Well, I feel like there's a conversation about impact versus intention, just in non-televised relationships, like how there can already be a disconnect. And then I think you add it in an environment where you can see every single tiny little micro bit of impact, and people are talking about them and like, you know, the ITMs, etc. So I feel like it's just right for holding people to a standard

that is really, really atypical, even though it might look like it's a reasonable standard. Actually, all I think it is is that Bachelor Nation is taking it out on Clayton that it's not Andrew or Greg or Michael or Rodney

or, you know, some of the other fan favorites that, or Michael, or Rodney, or some of the other fan favorites that were more popular than Clayton was when Clayton was selected as The Bachelor. That's not Clayton's fault, and we were hard on him. And every little thing they think he got wrong, they're just crucifying him. they think he got wrong.

They're just crucifying him. Um, when like he's helping us get a TV show, you know, it's like, anyway, should we get into the episode? We start off with a two on one. Yeah.

Bye Sinead. We're happy to see you go. Like I'm tired of trying to, you know, yeah. Another bad episode for Sinead. Like, I'm tired of trying to, you know. Yeah, another bad episode for Shanae. Like,

whatevs. She, I'm really curious what her motives were. You know, kind of like last week we discussed. Yeah,

like how was she justifying it to herself? I still think she thinks she was being funny and got caught up in it, but I still don't get it. I agree.

I don't think it was genuine what she was doing. I haven't watched too much this season. I think we watched the last two episodes. But to me, it didn't seem like she wanted... It seemed like

what you said, she got caught up in a role that she was playing right from the beginning. I think she's delivering lines that she thought were going to be funny. It's not a natural villain. That's not an excuse. That's like the worst part.

What do you mean? Like she's not a natural villain. How so? You know it's not like a you know Heath Ledger came out as the Joker and then Jared Leto did that Joker. Are you comparing her to Heath Ledger? Well I mean villain. No you're comparing her to Jared Leto. Yes exactly. She's like the Jared Leto villain like it's like did that joker compared to heath ledger well no you're comparing it to jared leto yes exactly so she's like the jared leto villain like it's like yeah you're trying to be that you're not naturally the budget okay so like that's what it kind of feels like it's forced it doesn't feel

very natural it's like okay well you're really trying to buy for this part it's not very good you know like her itms like by the river like obviously she was saying this shit in real time, so it's not like she went back. It just seems like she's being fed some things that she thinks are funny, and she thinks she's going to get a lot of screen time,

which she was right about that. The only thing I have to say about the two-on-one is we all know Genevieve got the rose, Sineade with her antics like i'm not saying i don't believe genevieve i'm just saying if i if someone came to me and said hey listen nally is she's doing some shit she's doing some shit she was I don't know I saw her out

she was grinding up on some guy some guy was grinding up on her and there might even have been a kiss and I'd been like my girlfriend would never do that but fuck

I guess I gotta ask I got babe yeah I heard this rumor like what's up what's up

all I'm saying is I would love it I love her response not to be what Genevieve's was you know what I'm saying is I would love it I love her response not to be what Genevieve's was you know what I'm saying like that's what we said

that's what we said it was just like she recovered a little bit at the end yeah I mean what do you mean by what do you mean by acting like

define Greg you could speak to that a little bit yeah I know I feel like you would have even done a better job I feel like you broke the barrier for everyone in acting now maybe that's what it was I never thought about that

maybe Genevieve took like an acting class that's not shocking she lives in LA she probably took an acting class but boy you were public enemy number one for taking an acting class yeah I know now there's so many actors it's all they talk about now

yeah she looked like she was a deer in headlights that's so funny because we were literally talking about that I wonder if should we do a segue and uh get a clayton's take on whether he believed uh yes i mean he gave her a rose so he had to get someone a rose he was probably just tired of shanae he was just like i gotta go yeah just like just too much yeah i just he wanted the drama out of the house i guess yeah let's see what clayton

has to say i actually like i'm happy you asked that question because i'm looking at it i'm thinking right away of an earlier thing that was shown already was where shanae cried to me okay and then told me and then she's shown in interviews saying oh my gosh i pulled the tears out i can't believe i did that like i really i really got him uh prior to this whole show i did not think i mean i've come in i'm a sucker for uh strong emotions but when i associate crying with an extreme you know feeling of pain suffering whatever it might be and i think that's because you know growing up i hardly ever cried my dad cried like twice since then but you're probably like who would fake cry i just didn't think you

could i didn't think it was even possible to pull tears out of your, on cue. And when you see that back with her, with Sarah yesterday, it's like, she, I mean, was bawling. And because of that, it all of a sudden validated, you know, her feelings and what she was telling me. As I have now seen looking, you know, Sinead did the same thing to me. And then it comes out, I find out that, Hey, uh, that wasn't even, those weren't a true feeling. She, she was able to pull the crocodile tears. And, uh, that was a huge thing that I learned going forward. Now I realize that people can be that manipulative and can pull out any emotion on cue whenever they want. That's pretty scary. I think that's honestly, I don't like to be around those kinds of people because to me, it's very scary when you can just pull out whatever emotion you want on cue and fake it.

Yeah, we agree. Genevieve, I thought, might have been fake crying too. I quite like Genevieve, but when you questioned her about the actor stuff, it sounds like you caught her off guard but i i made a joke that if if i heard a girl for a rumor about my girlfriend and questioned her about it i would not want the response from my girlfriend that genevieve gave you because she looked she looked guilty um was giving uh genevieve the two-in-one rose more about not giving it to shanae than it was about giving it to genevieve or was there something that we missed because it genevieve in that moment looked awfully guilty uh by her like inability to answer the question so quickly? Yeah, I will say the way I interpreted it was

she told me she's kind of taken aback by it, was wondering where that accusation came from. And I guess if you have someone say, hey, are you an actress? She's like, well, what's the backstory to that? Where did this come from? Where do we start? And I did ask it in a way where there wasn't, hey, here's what I've heard. Boom, boom, boom, boom. So here's all these accusations. Are you an actress? And so I took it as she was just caught off guard and was like, where do I start? How do I even explain to him? I'm not an actress. No, I'm not an actor. You can check IMDB or whatever. I'm not on there. I don't know. I think she was just kind of caught off guard by it all. But for me, no, I just knew in that moment that I felt there was still, you know, there was with Genevieve, I'm like, okay, I have a connection still with her. And I feel confident

enough in giving her this rose to move forward. And I just didn't feel that way with Sinead anymore. It was something where while we did have a connection, it just was getting to the point where it was becoming too much of a focal point and a distraction on my journey towards finding love. And because of that, I realized I have, again, I go back to this, it's kind of a game of comparing because you do in this crazy environment. But I said, hey, I have other stronger connections and I'm just taking up too much of my time with this. And I just don't see her at this point being the one for me. So it's time to leave.

Yeah, I don't know. Like it was a kind of an unclimactic two-in-one and that, yeah, it's like we did the classic leave behind of Sinead, right? Like what do you have to say? No, thought i thought shanae had a real hair mary with the the rumor stuff like i think if you're if you feel like you're going down that's you respect it i don't respect it i don't respect it i disrespect it what was so what was the rumor that she was an actor i just say yeah i feel like that's the only thing you can do you're an actor and you came here to like and she went and she was like i'm surprised she's even

on the date like i thought she would she said she wasn't gonna go last night like she did like really say some wild out of pocket shit but genevieve did confirm that she did say those things so get you a little bit of a red flag. Maybe I forgot. What did Genevieve confirm? That she said that she had a breakdown. She didn't want to be here or something like that. Okay. So, her words were twisted by Sinead. Yes.

Okay. Seems it, yeah. Got my notes, man. Ready to go. It's a tough... I really don't think Genevieve is lying. I'm just... Because she probably got put on the spot, but that is

not the response you want from a rumor about someone you want to... And if she is pursuing acting, I hope she continues to work on it. Yeah, I do hope that she just not, just like, wow, babe, now I don't believe you.

I also thought it was like super, he gives the rose to Genevieve, then he walks away with her. And I felt like he was walking as if he was just going to like say goodbye to her and head back to Sinead. Because he fully never said another word to Sinead.

And then suddenly they're just on the rest of the date. Like Sinead's still on a park bench. You remind me of something. Thank you. And this is another thing where like, where the producers are getting greedy with Clayton because it's this thing that happens again i being the bachelor is hard and the bachelorette but once in a while the the producers will have the bachelor do shit that kind of makes them look well like a sociopath because in what world in what world do you get into a fight of any kind or a disagreement

or some sort of like hey can i ask you like a hard-hitting question and they go yeah well let me tell you what i think and then mid-conversation calmly go i'm gonna have to step out let me go think about that and what fucking world does that ever happen in a relationship where the person like you just break mid-conversation and you just walk out of the room and I'm not

yeah I guess people that only happens in a fight where you're just like babe I need time I just need some time and it's not like

this calm kind of like I just need to step away. You don't whisper hey I just I'm going to step away. You don't whisper, hey, I just, I'm going to leave the room. It doesn't match the action. It doesn't match.

And like, it looks sociopathic to like, just like, who the fuck does that? Clayton does that all the time. He's just staring in the middle of nowhere.

Like in the middle of this, like, well, you know, I just, I really am here for you. Okay, let me, let me go step away it's like when you're a kid and like your friends like you want to sleep over and you're like I have to ask my parents first

exactly and I just you know every time you know I get it for dramatic effect they step away I get it but like they're getting a little carried away with Clayton contemplations

and these contemplations are a little greedy and it just makes these guys look kind of like you kind of ask like what the fuck yeah

like they lack these interpersonal skills to like deal with like an issue you know and I'm here to say it's just not on Clayton that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just that's just here to say it's just not on clayton that's disgusting

let me go let me go think about it for a second all right all right i'm back anyways i thought about it and yeah here's a rose like it's such a weird thing that they do he did it a couple times yes that happened with sarah yeah yes that's what I'm saying it happened with Genevieve it happened again with Sarah we'll get into that for sure but like such a random fucking thing

that makes their bachelors look fucking crazy right yeah unstable almost like yeah oh I can't

I can't be in this situation it's like what are you gonna do like could you imagine being in a fight could you imagine being in a fight could you imagine being in a fight or even a conversation with your partner and they're just like it's gonna go for a walk

step away it's probably for the best honestly i should probably i'm a big advocate if you are in a disagreement even darling my therapist after like 10 minutes like hey take a pause but like that comes with a level of intensity of like you're just like hey i'm just babe i'm gonna step outside or just button heads no they're like having a talk and yeah very calm just whispers it anyway um genevieve gets the rose genevieve looks like at any moment she might pass out when you watch her walk in a room she's just like holding on to people like at any moment like if you spooked Genevieve

I think she'd collapse she just looks like at any moment she's like who was it when the date card came on that's that's some good acting it was uh the young woman we were talking about younger the lady we were talking about that andrew eliza eliza yes when there was a knock on the door and she goes that startled me can you guys confirm knowing how this shit works? That was some,

that was some good performance. It was either good performance or she's like that anxious. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, sometimes the knocks kind of threw me off. No, they did.

Oh, they were so loud and random. Yeah. But you were like sitting there. Well, they have us sitting there all day. That's true. Okay, maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've been

out of the loop for a while. He's defending his girl. Okay. I don't know. He's like, baby, this fucking podcast

guy came after you and I fucking took him down. I don't know if anybody else, my favorite part of the episode was after the two-on-one

and the woman walks in to pick out the luggage and she does this mean stance in front of the suitcase. She's like sitting there which suitcase are you going to do that? And she leans back and forth and she tapped her finger on her thigh.

Like pink, white. Pink, white. Which one was Sinead? That hip was popped as well. I was like, get this woman an IMDB page. She deserves it. And then the champagne

bottles after this? Oh, Gabby drinks two at one time. Do you know what I'm going to say? Do you know what I'm going to ask?

Well, I think you're going to say like, was it a bad look or was it like in line with bullying or isolating Sinead that everyone celebrated?

No, he's going to talk about how the toast was to herpes. Yeah. They refer to her as the herpes outbreak that is now gone. That's some bullshit. Anyone who said that, I don't know who said that.

You're a low character person. Yeah. I don't remember who said that, but I'm just going to say it. That's a wild say. This is bullshit. I don't care what Sinead did. I mean, that is bullying. That is Mean Girls. That's bullshit. And it't care what Sinead did. I mean, like, that's not... That is bullying. That is Mean Girls.

That's bullshit. And it was a low-character moment. I know that much. I mean, I don't want to define their whole existence, I suppose. I'll take that they're a low-character person. But it was a low-character moment for them. And that's all I got to say about that. What else?

What else we got? Then what happened next it was rose ceremony so Marlena and Hunter went home which one's Marlena Hunter she had the rose she's the Olympian

gotcha unfortunately apparently Clayton did not connect on the fact that they were both athletes last week she was like Clayton I'm an athlete you're an athlete

she was Clayton was like no I'm an athlete. You're an athlete. She was, Clayton was like, no, it's okay. I'm sorry. Hunter, unproblematic queen. What we have set up the, it's Mara, right? Yes. Because I was calling her.

I wrote that down. Natural villain. Natural villain. She's a natural villain. I think it just, her story just kind of blossomed. And I'm like, okay, I like that. Natural villain

in the sense that like she is a character pulled out of society. Yeah. And that's really who she is. You know what I mean? So I'm like, okay,

I get why she's a villain. Sinead was kind of just being a villain just to be one. You know what I mean? Like, this is Mara. This is who she is.

This is a great take. You know what I mean? So I was like, wow, this is mara this is this is who she is a great take you know what i mean so i was like wow this is great this is good tv she she already brought it on sarah like this is what a villain is supposed to have this is an origin story do we have i have both empathy i've i do feel like if if there's anything good that comes out of us recapping the bachelor i do think i have gotten better as a person empathizing with people because we're constantly talking about both sides, right? We're, you know,

obviously the ass Knicks help to listen to people's story, but I have both criticism, a lot of criticism for Mara, but I do have empathy for like, you see her true desire to find love. Like she's like, I think she's going about it in a terrible way and, and, and she's projecting a lot of toxic emotions, but her desire, I, I, I, I feel for her because it feels like if she could just, you know, like maybe come on an ass, Nick, I don't know, but let's just chill out,

you know, just settle in to who she is and stop trying to squeeze the life out of anyone she's ever dated. But the best part is it feels real. Sometimes with Sinead, it kind of like, for some reason, it gives us a bad look. I don't know why.

Like people in the Bachelor world. Because that just seems like, just like super... When you say the show. It gives the show a bad look. I feel like when you have people that are just naturally themselves and it makes the show look more authentic.

Like with people like Sinead, I just feel like it's ruining. Cause I feel like I do love the bachelor, like process. I think it's some, I think it works. I think some people who take it seriously, I think definitely it would,

it would blossom for them. But when people like Sinead go on there and just completely just do stuff out of left field, it's just like, all right, is this just all a joke? Yeah, Sinead acts like a Sacha Baron Cohen character, like constantly. It's like, who implanted you? And like, you know, that's not the case.

Like, I don't know any implanted actors. She's not implanted. No, what she is, yeah, it's, you guys know how it is. Yeah, exactly. You've been there. Like, no one's an actor, but people definitely try to act. Yes. You go in that world and you see people like,

you have observed your peers listen to producers and do what they think the producers want and not even what the producers are telling them to do, but they go in and out of character. Talk about all every person who's like narked on someone who's like i don't know they're a different person with you and when they're not with you there are people on bachelor and you guys agree or disagree but in my opinion there are people there are cast people who are different around producers than they are with

their peers and they turn into the whole like right reasons and all that bullshit. And they're like, and then all of a sudden they're just like, fuck you. That shit happens all the time. And it's always the righteous motherfuckers who are,

and so, yeah, anyway. And so, yeah, I think I agree with you. She's a real villain in the fact that you are getting her real authentic feelings. That's what we want to see.

And I think it's good. I like this little Sarah Amara vibe. Especially how Sarah came back. It's a fresh start. It's something new at least. Tired of fucking ADHD and Sinead. Shrimp. My attention for...

That was not good. I couldn't pay. I was over it. My attention for the ADHD drama has passed. I no longer have attention for it. I hate to do this right now. I have to pee so bad. Can I pee?

Yeah. Thank you so much. We'll just listen to more of the Clayton interview while you pee. Clayton, how you doing, buddy? Oh, Nick, man. I'm doing okay. Obviously, you can hear I'm a little rough today, but mentally, I feel that I have mental clarity. It's

just my voice did not want to join the party today, so we'll do our best. Super Bowl cheering for football? Honestly, it wasn't even from the super bowl it was uh from brandon came into town that man is quite the partier and uh but i will say i actually put him out of commission yesterday he had to call it quits he's gonna kill me for saying that but he had to call it quits yesterday and i had to take him home so he could go nap on the couch so okay it's a productive weekend. But yeah, it was pretty eventful.

We love Brandon here. We had a chance to talk with him. It was a lot of fun. How are you doing, Clayton? The world's vaccination has been hard on you. Yeah, you know, I think it went through a wave of emotions from the really the initial before the airing of the show and things were kind of quiet to the initial first episode where things got really hectic. And then I was hearing everything under the sun and everybody told me to not read or listen to anything that's being said online. And I just like I love to be stubborn. I decided to choose to not listen to anything that's being said online. And I just like, I love to be stubborn.

I decided to choose to not listen to any of that advice. But I will say with that, partly, I felt that the more I read, I would become numb to it all. And honestly, I think that's kind of what's happened this last week or two. I will compound on top of that the fact that I've also spoken to former bachelor, bachelorettes, had these conversations as of recently that have really kind of helped me understand that this is par for the course in a way. I don't know if necessarily I'm facing any more backlash than other previous bachelor, bachelorettes, maybe so. But it sounds like at the end of it all, there may be the light that I'm looking for. But regardless of whether or not I think what's more important is if it's one thing to be liked, it's another thing for me to be happy at the end of it all. And that's kind of where my focus has shifted.

Okay. Well, that's good to hear. That sounds there's a twinkle of some optimism for what's to come. Nice little tease there, Clayton. Optimism for what's to come. Nice little tease there, Clayton. Are there moments, like you mentioned, like obviously you had some big moments with Susie today or on this last episode.

You had a big moment, another nice moment with Rachel. I think most people think are your two front runners. Were there other moments that didn't make the cutting room floor that you kind of wish the audience could see? And if so, like, could you shed some light on, you know, any more kind of like, just even like cute, fun moments that you had with either Rachel or Susie or any other, the women that you're making connections with where you're like, oh, that would have been kind of cool to have the audience see, but we were too focused on Sinead.

the audience see but we were too focused on shanae yeah i mean there's listen yeah there's you said it best uh these episodes are two hours long but i think we film 16 hours a day uh and each episode encapsulates something that happens in a week or a week and a half so there's so many that so much that doesn't make the cut just because of time constraints. I thought there was a lot of, you know, interactions that were fun that I know just from this past episode, Teddy and I had a really great time at a picnic that we did, that we had during the day. And again, it's just like, there's, there's so much of this little banter that we had and we're having a lot, a lot of great laughs. And I, that was, again, was, again, I can't remember specifics about all of these conversations, but there was a lot of also things going on with the women, the bonds that they had as well.

But here's the thing. I think people do watch the show for the drama. I mean, there must be a reason why it's so highlighted, because it attracts viewers. And so I understand the show has to play to that. And I think they are. And if they have all the metrics, they know what attracts the viewers. And so if it didn't attract the viewers,

they would not highlight that. So I'm not going to question what they're showing because they know way, way, way more than I do. I just live the experience and then they decide what they want to show. Yeah, that's fair. There is a lot, I think, to put the Elizabeth story to bed. I'd love to hear from you why you sent Elizabeth home.

Because I think the perception in Bachelor Nation is, had Sinead not ruined her time and cannibalized it with the drama that Elizabeth would have been able to show you who she really was. Is there any truth to that? Or what's the reason you sent Elizabeth home from your perspective? That's a great question. And here's the thing, so many incredible women that showed up on night one, but again, just because you're incredible, whatever it is, everybody is trying to figure out whether or not there's a connection.

And sometimes you can pick up on that very quickly. And I do want to highlight the fact that there were a couple of women night one that weren't into me that just up and left. So I think that's also, it happens just up and left. Uh, so, uh, I think that's also, it happens both ways with some of these women go, I'm not really feeling him. And they can make that off of a first impression that does happen in the real world. That does happen on the show, uh, with Elizabeth, we just didn't have a connection. Uh, we talked initially. I

thought she was a nice woman. I thought she, um, there was a lot going for her, but I just didn't feel a spark. I didn't feel that connection. And honestly, just with the rest of the connections that I had, or at least the early initial interest, it was much stronger with other women. So, um, when it came time to, you know, Elizabeth and Sinead, when they started having that drama, uh, it wasn't a matter of picking one over the other because, oh, I think she's more right than the other person is. It kind of came down to a little bit of that of, okay, I kind of feel that I'm siding right now with one side, but also I do feel a stronger initial connection with this person. Therefore, I'm just going to go ahead

and part ways with the other one, hoping that this will be the, maybe it'll end that drama. Now, as we see now, that was not the case, but that was my thought. And sometimes I think in life, we tend to agree with people that we have better connections with. That's just how it goes. You have that gut feeling of, okay, I really trust this person or I have a better attraction to them. So I'm going to probably end up taking their side. And that is a fault to my own. But in that moment, I felt that I can part ways with Elizabeth because there are so many other women here that I'm more interested in. It was as simple as that. Yeah. So I don't want any clarification. It wasn't so much like when you say taking sides that you were picking, you weren't, were you picking Sinead over Elizabeth or you were more picking all the other, I mean, there were like 15 women left when you sent Elizabeth home. Like, as this comes down to you simply didn't have a connection with Elizabeth.

Yeah. I mean, as we have, again, at first, there's so many women, there's really so little time. And so you have to go off of, okay, how do I feel with having one or two prior conversations? I mean, night one, you have with some of these women, one conversation. I didn't have a conversation with actually some of the women outside of just the limo entrances. So some of them had none, because again, it's just, there's so much going on. And if we all have a 30 minute conversation, then we'll be there until two days later. So I would go off of, okay, how many conversations I had. And I believe if I don't, if I remember correctly, when I talked, you know, sat down with Elizabeth and Sinead finally to, you know, with,

with me there as well. I might've had maybe, I don't know, three conversations with them total three or four. well uh i might have had maybe i don't know three conversations with them total three or four it wasn't a ton to go off of so um i really did hold that at that interaction uh i put a lot of weight into it and i with them both sitting down in front of each other i i was just sitting there quiet and i know everyone's like man the dude's spaced out he is completely just does not want to be there um yeah i yeah, I wasn't a fan of all the drama, but at the same time, I was just kind of locked in and listening to the words, listening to the tone, watching body language, just trying to pick up on everything I could to

say, okay, who seems to be at fault here? And honestly, listen, as I watch this back again, I now have a different take on maybe who is the culprit. But in that conversation, I felt that Elizabeth came across a little bit condescending and she was cutting off Sinead. And it was that's all it came down to is in that conversation. Sinead was actually quiet and listening the entire time that Elizabeth was talking, but it wasn't reciprocated. And so I made a decision off of really that conversation because I felt, again, I was like, I don't really have a strong connection with Elizabeth, no fault of her own. We just, we just doesn't, there's no spark there. And so with that coupled with the conversation, I just felt like, okay,

Hey, I'm, there's nothing more here. And I just, it's better to part ways. That makes sense. Um, I just, it's better to part ways. That makes sense. Um, you, uh, all the rumors that you've been told by the women, you always, it seems like you, um, you hear like, it seems like it's like you're almost, your strength is being used against you as a weakness, you know, in the sense of a strength, it seems like it's like you're almost your strength is being used against you as a weakness. In the sense of a strength, it seems like you're like a really present guy and you want to listen to everyone and hear them out. And if what they want to say is talking shit about another peer, then you have that personal aspect of like, oh, shit, they're talking shit about someone I like. oh shit, they're talking shit about someone I like.

Do you ever regret any of the times that you took the rumor that you heard and then asked the person that rumor was about as opposed to just saying, you know what, that sounds like nonsense. Did you feel like confronting the accusation to the person who was being accused ever affected your relationships negatively? Or did you, did you like that? Or, you know what I'm saying? Because

like sometimes you can like overtake the conversation. Like, I think obviously that we saw the date with Sarah last night and that was pretty much at least what we saw the meat of the whole date was you being like, Hey, I, I hear you don't want to be here. I hear like, you're not ready for, for marriage. Like looking back, do you wish you would have done that differently? Um, when I, when it comes to that, I would say, uh, no, uh, because for me, I've always felt that the second I hear about conflict, I hope that there's a quick resolution.

I think it's always better to address something right away as opposed to potentially ignoring it or addressing it at a later date because you give it time to either come back around. I don't think things like that drop off. around. I don't think things like that drop off. And with Sarah, what it came down to was that in that moment, we're talking, what, a week or two before hometown. So that conversation for me was, it was, okay, this accusation is being brought up. It could be false. And if it's false, then after we have this conversation, I will drop it and I won't think anything more of it. And that's what you saw was we had the talk. She relayed to me how she felt, got very emotional. And in that moment I felt, okay, listen, she is genuine. She really is hurt by these accusations. And I'm really sorry that I did

this tonight. We had a good day, but I also cannot be afraid to have these conversations because again, we're talking about a week later from now, I might be meeting your, you know, your parents and your family. And I cannot have that doubt in the back of my mind that you potentially are here just to have a good time, because let's be honest, does everybody come on the show looking for love, looking to, to win my heart over? No. I mean, we all know this. Nobody is naive to it.

There are some people that come here and they have the right mindset. And there are others that are like, hey, I see a lot of opportunities that can come from this. I'm not naive to that. I'm aware of it. Therefore, those accusations, everyone says here for the wrong reasons. And it's like, oh, my gosh, why do we always bring this up? Because that is a concern if you're in my shoes and you're looking to actually settle down

you don't want to hear hear even those words muttered because the second you do it's just a whole set of red flags that go off yeah with all the stuff that's come out with shanae and you've talked to and you've been very kind of vocal about all the things that you've learned about what shanae has done and her antics and things like that. You know, there's been a lot of talk about tell-all and certainly Elizabeth sounding off on her social about like what her plans for tell-all. And we always hear about like the questions like all your exes may or may not have for you. But do you have any questions for Shanae regarding like her behavior or what seems to be like the fake crying uh or are you just over it i only have one big question it's just are you are you sorry

that's really it because if she says yes i know she did a lot but if her if she's genuine in her response and says you know hey looking back at it um, I kind of was just blinded by the experience of whatever it is and maybe just took it way too far. I'm somebody who is willing to give people second chances if I feel that it's genuine. That's all I want to know. If she says, no, I'm not sorry. I stand my ground. Everything I stand by. Then, again, there's nothing more to be said there on that realm because to me it's a lost cause.

And, okay, that's how you feel. I disagree with you. And I don't really need to hear anything else about why you did it if you don't feel apologetic. So that's it's that simple for me. I think it's one question, because if she says, no, I'm not sorry, I don't feel that I need to have a discussion any further. I think that speaks louder than anything else at that point is if she's willing to back all that up. speaks louder than anything else at that point is if she's willing to back all that up. And I hope that she has time to reflect as we all have and takes a look at her actions and maybe sees areas where she could have done things differently. And again, I think this is a learning experience. I've learned so much. I by no means was perfect. And people will continue to see that going forward, all the mistakes that I made, which there were plenty. But I think if we all sit here and say, hey, I did this following my heart, I did what I thought was best, I think we can give

people some grace and understand that sometimes these moments become very big in general. But when you're in front of a camera and all that as well, maybe you're driven to do some things that you wouldn't typically do had you not had the pressure to be in the environment that you're in. So I'm willing to give her some grace, but I only have that one question and I just want to know whether or not she's sorry. That's fair. Is there anyone else in the house that you've been surprised by their edit and you're seeing a different version of them

or like Sinead or someone that we might see a different version of? Actually, you haven't seen it in any future episodes either. of actually you haven't seen it in any future episodes either so you know i think i know basically everything that i've seen so far on the show again a lot of it's been heavily focused on the drama so that's all been eye-opening but as far as seeing a different side to somebody's whether or not they're goofy or whatever character trait they might have. A lot of that, I haven't seen anything that's surprised me. I think that the surprise won't come on my end. It's going to come on a lot of, I think, other people's ends,

the viewers' ends that are not watching this all for the first time and don't have my experience on my side of it that are going to say, well, holy crap, these connections are way stronger. It went from just week one to boom, this, and all of a stronger where, where like it went from just week one to boom this. And all of a sudden now there's all these crazy connections. Yeah. Because there was a lot happening in those weeks building up. Uh, I say this, I know they have some kind of like the kissing bandit, uh, as far as it's like what people there's, they show me kissing all the time, but, uh, I think physical intimacy and all that is

important. And that's something where you have to have that, you know, that there for a relationship to work long-term. And I try to tell people, if you see me kissing them, it's not like I just walked in a room and we just start making out. You have to establish that connection. And these women felt safe and they felt that we had incredible conversations. A lot of those, like the kisses, what preceded it was 30 minutes of conversation. So that was also build up over time. And now I think people are going to start seeing like last night, like, Whoa, these are some strong connections. Where'd they come from? Well,

while all that drama was happening, there was a whole other romantic side happening, building these relationships that was also going on. And again, they couldn't highlight because they have a job. They can only show much and show so much in two hours yeah totally um i know you've kind of like put like a silver lining on it but you know i've been hard on you in the past bachelor nation has like has there been any point in this season where you even had the thought of regretting saying yes to be the bachelor oh yeah yeah uh i think like the first three weeks uh of the show airing yeah i definitely

thought that uh because you just don't know what to expect going into it. But having no frame of reference, not really watching prior shows, I went straight from Michelle's season to jumping into my own. So I didn't have that time in between to really reach out to Bachelor Bachelorettes, ask them these questions that I now am asking that I'm like, oh, wait,

so this isn't that out of the norm. You received some hate too, but now people seem to have come around and liked you. Just having that reassurance, I didn't get that. So the first three weeks I thought, you know, this is gonna be great. Everyone's going to come around and start seeing my personality.

And it just, people weren't. It seemed like as if no matter what they showed, even when they showed my personality, showed me being goofy, people would say, he has no personality. And it's like, what more do you want to see? And I'm showing you this on social media, and yet you still are just wanting to find something to be mad at me about. That just to me felt like it became this hopeless battle of you can't, you know, you're not going to make anybody happy.

And to me, I just wasn't ready, I guess, for the magnitude of the criticism that I was going to face. But yeah, then after the more I spoke with people, I realized that this is kind of just how it is. And now I have truly become numb to it in the last week or two. The negativity in my inbox is the same thing I've seen for the last four or five weeks. And it just doesn't have the same bite anymore. It doesn't matter at this point to me because I just, I'm happy with people that I have in my life. And that's ultimately what's pushing me forward. Well, that's good to hear. I hope for you that you don't have to continue to be numb and that hopefully people stop fucking DMing Clayton

nasty shit. Um, chill out. Um, if they want to get their anger out again, I think we all know this. Uh, if you're projecting your own anger on somebody you don't even know that's that's more so uh something that's that's an internal issue on your own end so if they feel that just them yelling at me that's going to help them get out that anger and make them feel a little better than so be it i don't understand it but uh for some people that's the way it's kind of like venting and i guess that's what they want to do is they want to vent to me and tell me how terrible I am, but it is what it is. I mean, they can be in my DMs. It's fine. That's all. I'll just continue to ignore them.

All right. All right. Question as regards to the end of the season, which obviously we know you're, you can't shut a light, but I want to ask in a way that can, uh, there's obviously the reveal that you talk about being intimate with at least two different women there. I've, I've heard personally that the ending from producers is an all timer. I don't know what that means. It is here. It's an all timer. usually when there's this all-time drama, like it's going to be intense and Bachelor Nation will have a very intense feeling towards it. So whether that's towards you or one of the women or multiple women,

what is a relatable experience that in terms of like, hey, before these starts airing, just consider you being in a situation where that you would want, they would, they might want some grace too, because it seems like things might get a little cloudier before they get clear when it comes to your personal love story. And does that make sense? Like, are you able to like shed some light on that and how, like, what's the, what should we prepare ourselves for without, you know, giving anything away? Yeah. Well, the biggest thing that if I had to give people advice

or just ask of individuals is to be patient, judge based off of the outcome, not so much the process. I mean, I think people will judge regardless. And I'm not saying you can't judge, but see it all the way through because, you know, then you may make sense. It might not make sense in the moments. And people will say, well, why is he doing this? I don't know. I mean, I've already seen that there. Let's just say, for instance, the trailers they've shown where I say, I have, you know, been, I was physically intimate with the both of you. And everyone goes, why would he say that in that environment? It makes no sense. And it's like, yeah, because you don't have the context. And if you have the context, I'm not saying you're,

everyone's going to agree with me, but maybe half of that camp now says, okay, I see why he did it. And that is what I kind of want whole people will do is just reserve their judgment until they see it all the way through. And that is what I kind of want, hope people will do is just reserve their judgment until they see it all the way through. And then for what, at that point, when you have the full story, then you can make a judgment on me and you can either like me or dislike me. But so often I think nowadays with social media, with everything that we have going on, everything's so instantaneous. And a lot of times people make judgments before all the facts are out.

And then next thing you know, all the facts come out and they got their foot in their mouth. So that's where I just think for me, it's, I hope that people will again, just give it time, let it play out. And then let's, let's talk, let's have that discussion. You know, you, after you see it all the way through, you can sit here and bring me back in on our podcast and say, Clayton, you're an idiot. Cause you did this and this, but at least now we have all seen it and now we can have that discussion. Cause I won't sit here and say that I'm not going to defend all my access to the

grave. I learned a lot. And I think there were things I wish I did differently. But in that moment, it's what I thought was best. Is there a specific thing, anything that's not including Sinead? Is there something, because we get there's regret there and we get all that we've covered the Sinead, but is there any other specific thing that you are able to share that thing something you might have done differently i don't know if necessarily i can't say a ton on this uh but again it's apparent i'll just say this it was apparent i mean i've said it multiple uh in the trailers you know i expressed being in love with multiple women. And I would just say for me, um, that was one of the worst things that I could have done, uh,

is fallen for multiple people. I just wasn't ready for it. And I don't know, uh, some people I maybe can handle that. And I would love to be able to talk to people that have went through that. I mean, I don't think many people fall in love with multiple people at the same time. And I think this is the only atmosphere where it's acceptable, given the circumstances, but that was dangerous for me. And I would love to elaborate on that further at a later point, but for what it is now, that's just something that, yeah, I realized for me personally was not a good thing to do. Are you more nervous for women to all or AFR?

a good thing to do. Are you more nervous for women tell all or AFR? So I wouldn't use the word nervous per se, uh, because I'm more so just, well, put it this way, obviously AFR, uh, the connections that I had, I was stronger than what I had will have with the women that are at women tell all. Uh, and so because of that And so because of that, I know there's going to be more pain associated with AFR. And for that, that's the one that I'm saddened to have to go and have those conversations, although I think that they are worth having. But I know it's going to be a lot more emotionally challenging for me to go to the FR. Now, well, on a lighter note, and just for fun, indulge us, tell me three things that you like and one thing that you dislike about Rachel and Susie.

We're just assuming you pick one of those two. Well, I was going to say, I'm sitting here like, well, you got your heart rate. We decided that i think they're your front runners i was i thought it was rachel last week your reaction to suzy sneaking out like having been in your shoes being as tired as i know how you can be like your reaction to suzy could have been very different let's say if it was Mara you know what I'm saying like I so for me I was like oh fuck Susie I was convinced it was Rachel last week and now I'm not so sure but I've

convinced at least now that it's one of those two and so I just want to hear you talk about them if I can try to peel back yeah uh so three things that I like about each of them. Well, let's see with, with Rachel, I think what you've seen so far is she's very intentional with every interaction she has. I, she's very much. I mean, if you look at it, the interactions, I don't know, people pick up on it, but I picked up on it. She, every time she was with me, it's like she was closing down that physical distance and she just, I could tell it's like, she wanted to be as close as possible and i felt that and it really it made me happy to um you know just to feel that i was wanted and and that she was putting forth the

effort and all these you know in an area like that where i think she did such a great job at where other people just weren't she was in a different realm when it came to that uh she also she she's you know fully committed from really early on. I think, again, it was something where I was so shocked because she told me she was falling hard. And I think she did not hold back from the start where, again, other people were more, you know, hesitant to open up. I know when I was on her side of things, I did not open up until it was too late. Uh, and I think she just came in saying, Hey, I'm going to give it a shot and I'm willing to see where this goes. And I respected that out of her as well. And, uh, you know, a third thing being, uh, she's actually, she's pretty funny. She's got a great sense of humor. Uh, she's just sweet. She's driven as well. I think her job is uh and what she does is incredible and she chases after a dream and being a pioneer really in that in that uh line of work where there aren't many female pilots she's uh she's you know going against the norm

and she knows what she wants to do in life and i respect that what about suzy what's about suzy am i still doing three things? Sure, man. Whatever. You can just stash. You're a good interviewer, man. You're very generous with your answers. Thank you. You know, with Susie, I think what stood out to me was that a lot of the women were very much kind of pulled to her. And I think when you start seeing people

being attracted to individuals, you start to pick up on that and realize that everyone kind of wants to surround themselves with that person. So someone that happened, I saw that happen with Rodney on Michelle's season. Everybody was just attracted to him. Like everyone wanted to be around him

because he was so funny. He just was a good positive vibe. And every time you're around him, you're laughing. And it made just that being in that same room so much more enjoyable. I kind of felt like that was how it was with Susie. She seemed to kind of have that similar pull. Everyone was really just always wanting to be around her. And so that really piqued a lot of my curiosity with her. And I like that. I mean, it's not that I need to ever be with somebody that's liked by everybody, but I think it's a good indicator of if you see, walk into a room and you see a circle around one person, you know, they're either just telling a

really crazy story that people just want to listen to one time or they're the life of the party. There's somebody that people want to be around and associate themselves with. So I saw that with her early on and it piqued my interest. I think she also, as everyone saw in the last episode, she said she's low guarded, but she was very honest. She's open. And that's something that I asked a lot of the women to give to me. And I would hope to be able to do the same to them. And I think that while she did struggle, she told me, Hey, you know, this is something that I, that I've been put, I put up walls,

but I want to let you know that so that there's no surprises why I may be holding off. But she, as people saw yesterday, she told me her feelings and, you know, I reacted the way I did. Cause I was, I was shocked. I was not really sure where she stood because I kind of, without her telling me prior that she had the walls up, I could just feel it. So it was really exciting to finally know where we stood and whether or not, again, I didn't know at the same time. I thought, hey, maybe she's going to friend zone me. I don't know. Like when I first saw her and I said that again, so I made the comment, I said, Oh, you're smiling.

This must be good because I was looking at the first thing I was waiting on is when I saw her or whoever it was going to be. I'm like, okay, what's their face? Are they going to have a smile on? It's going to be straight. Like I had no idea when it said maybe the clock tower, whether that was a good or bad thing. So yeah, to find that out, it was, it was obviously I saw she was willing to really fully dive in. She just maybe took a little bit longer than others did to do so. Was that two, I think.

Yeah. I mean, I get the long answers. Yeah. You tell me three. You should probably just tell me one because I'm going to give you. Yeah. Long talker. Clayton, thank you very much for your time, man.

Okay. I just got to say, we were stuck in Albuquerque yeah so just keep that in mind Croatia sounds fucking awesome Croatia we were in Albuquerque you guys and I went there

oh yeah yeah yeah I saw it you guys in the history of the show probably had the that was not cool oh and you want everyone wonders why there's so much drama we were we were we were losing our team together we were in quarantine we had to see each other every second of the day and you couldn't leave one room. And we saw the same mountain every single day. The same mountain. It was bad. The food was not great.

The food wasn't great. That food was atrocious. So we're all losing our minds. It makes perfect sense why our season was so dramatic. It wasn't authentic New Mexican food. No. It was like a cafeteria. It was bad cafeteria food. It was like a cafeteria. It was cafeteria stuff.

It was bad cafeteria food. It's like, yeah. Same. We were just pouring barbecue sauce every single day on our stuff. Just pouring it on. Just because there was no taste. Oh, man. Anyway, so Croatia.

Yeah. Most fucking romantic. Teddy gets a one-on-one. I was happy that Teddy got it because she has gotten a one-on-one, right? Yeah. Before she got the one-on-one. I was happy that Teddy got it because she has gotten a one-on-one, right? Yeah. Wait, I was... Before she got the one-on-one,

I was like, holy shit. She's the one with the first impression rose. Yeah. So I was happy for her. Yeah. I was a little worried that Amanda has suspected that she might fall off the cliff.

And I was worried that she might too. I was wondering where was her screen time. Like she like... The last three weeks have just... I think she kind of clammed up a little bit maybe. I don't know. Or maybe Clayton. I mean, clearly he's into Rachel and Susie.

Yeah. I still think Rachel wins, but Susie has a really strong showing. I think it's interesting between them two. I mean, I see him and Rachel and I'm just like, these two. Well, we'll get to why I think the Susie was so impactful, but let's focus on the Teddy right now. I mean, it still was a bit, it didn't, I guess the Teddy and Clayton date didn't have the same vibes

as the Rachel and Susie moments. I feel like it just feels like he's already picked. You know what I mean? And it's not Teddy. It's not even Teddy's fault, though. I thought Teddy was great in how she just made it feel like a normal date like they would actually go on. She gives me the very authentic

actually this is what it's going to be like vibes. And we really appreciated her fit. Oh wow. That leather jacket off the shoulders. We were like look at this girl. Look at her. And Clayton's out there with a quarter zip on.

It's not his fault. Oh, no. We know that. I mean, it's kind of his fault. I think there was an outfit. I think it was the group date one. And I love Clayton.

I think he's a great guy. The outfit he has on the group date where it's like a blue blazer and like a zip up and in jeans. That has to be the worst outfit of Bachelor history I

I don't know you should see look up my fantasy suite date on Andy's season it's not good it's brutal I'm gonna look it up now I'm gonna

I'm gonna have to date Clayton I'm gonna be like yo bro love you man that wasn't it though ever did what it did

while I'm in a freaking Uncle Phil sweater right now i have a question which is that do you think like men when do you think men get access to like fashion and like cultivating their own sense of style like do you think that's something that like a lot of guys can do now yeah i mean in the world or on bachelor nation both different well like i it's i mean matt james tore james i mean unbelievable unbelievable yeah he looked great but also like to your point I mean, Matt James tore it up. Matt James. I mean. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. He looked great. But also, to your point, he knew what worked and he stuck with it.

Right. You don't like the Bachelor is not the place to like. Try new things. Try new things. Take risks. Andrew, I feel like you whipped out some fits. I tried. I mean, I lived in Europe for a little bit.

And that's when my fashion got a little bit better. I used to be just like an athletic leisure. Like sweatpants and sweatshirt. So, I lived in Europe for a little bit and that's when I like my fashion got a little bit better. I used to be just like a athletic leisure like sweatpants and sweatshirt. So I totally get it like for him. I just, you know, these girls are just going all out and he's got like jeans and a blazer and a hoodie on someday. I was like, dang, man, I feel bad for these girls. Don't hate on the hoodie blazer combo. Hoodie blazers fire.

I think the Bachelor ruined their hoodie blazer combo. Yeah. It's just I i mean i don't know i i just feel like they've been like going to the girls have been absolutely killing it um and clayton's kind of leaving them hanging a little bit this guy's setting himself up for a real nice paradise arrival who me yeah why so women were looking great they're dressing nice yeah yeah dude you better bring it on your date okay because i'll be the first one here okay he gives me crap every time i have to put on he's like bro no that's not it i'm like okay do you guys i'm honest with you do you guys like to dress each other when you go out do we dress he asked me like 40 times it It changed like six times. Are you kidding me right now?

This morning? No, yesterday. Put on two different t-shirts six times. Who? A black and a white shirt. Nah, I'm going to try the black shirt. Wait, what? You don't remember this?

To the Super Bowl? No. It was Drake's thing. No, the first night. Bieber's. What did I wear the first night? You wore the black or the gray. The one that like ruined your shirt,

turned it blue. No. Yeah. I don't want to hear it. You do your little runway walk every single day. Okay, don't. No, he does the Grinch voice too. Like, okay, I'm not going.

But watch what I wear. Watch what I wear. That's what I'm not going. Okay, I'm not going. I can't cancel that. I can't cancel that. I can't cancel that again. I just can't. 9 a.m., dinner with me?

Okay, sorry. Sorry. You guys are adorable. What did Teddy... I mean, they talked about her being a virgin, right? Yes. And I thought Clinton's response was nice. Ooh, he did that.

He's like, oh, oof. What? He kind of hit one of those. It's like in the back of his mind, he's like, wow. It kind of felt like. Did you feel like that hurt Teddy's chances? Do you feel like, you know, interesting enough, we get this a lot on our ass nicks, right?

Teddy represents a certain, there's a community of women that Teddy represents. The mid twenties, they're virgins. And maybe there was a reason that they started being virgins, but that has since kind of changed. Maybe it started with like, you know, Teddy's story, like her mom got her early pregnancy that was influenced in her life. Maybe there's a religious element, things like that.

But you get away from the religious element, you grow up and then you just like, you still want it to be special and you haven't yet. And we get asked all the time, you know, like, do guys like, I'm a virgin, I don't care. But like, it seems like all the guys care, right? It seems like, and Clayton said something interesting, actually, that made me want to pose the question. And Clayton said something, thank you for sharing. And in his ITM, he's like, that carries a lot of weight, and I want to respect that

kind of weight that it carries, some version of that. And I guess my question, I don't think any of, I don't know if there are any virgins in the room, but for the people listening, if you are in Teddy's community and we can discuss, do we feel like, does the virgin, the person who hasn't had sex yet, who is like maybe self-conscious about it, do they want people to carry it with so much weight or do they just want to like, be normal, just be like, yeah be like yeah okay cool you're a virgin like whatever maybe I'll be your person

or not because I always people are like well why why do people like why do people think it's a big deal my response always

to these people is like I don't know you but chances are you are carrying it with you and you're talking about it and you're like

by the way I'm a virgin you know and god it's a bachelor so like Teddy has to talk about it like I don't

Teddy doesn't strike me as someone who's bringing this up like on first dates all the time how she voiced it though yeah yeah but i'm curious about like clayton's response and i think i think clayton's response was fine in terms i don't i'm not critical of it and it was the right thing to say as the bachelor but realistically it it's that pressure it's like that why do we have to carry it with so much weight like why do we have to carry this virginity with this like golden chalice of whatever

in my opinion I think that she tried to not make it such a huge deal because she did voice in the beginning she said you know I take pride in that I'm a sexual person but I just haven't you know had the right person or the right moment or she's never been in love yet.

So I really appreciated how she voiced that because she's not trying to make it like her storyline or like this huge deal, but she's just being honest with the guy. And then our best friend is a virgin. Right, yeah. But that's for a totally different reason. But he like doesn't,

it doesn't strike you as that kind of guy. You don't even talk about it. But to Greg's point, it's interesting talking to you about it he does carry a lot of a weight weight for that but like if you like have coverage he you would never noticed if he wasn't on the show and he had to talk about it well interesting enough because that's his choice yeah right so like he's fine with that choice it It's part of him. If you're Teddy or someone similar to Teddy, where you're just like, it was your choice, but it feels like less of your choice. Cause it was like, yeah, it's my choice, but like, I want it to be special.

So, you know, like, but I also just want to like get, I don't want to, I want to get through this. I want to have sex. I want to not go on dates and call myself a virgin. I do want it to be special. I don't want to, I want to get through this. I want to have sex. I want to not go on dates and call myself a virgin. I do want it to be special. I don't want to, I've waited this long. It's kind of like this in-between world people live who like, unlike Mike, who's like,

no, I'm doing this for a reason. This is an active choice. I decided for this for myself. So I don't need to explain myself because like someone like Mike, he's like, this is my choice. And someone like Teddy is like, I'm just, I just happen to be a virgin you know yeah or this reflects like an older ideology yes older yeah i also think like the thing about disclosing like being a virgin is you're basically

saying like every single person you've ever fucked and that list is like zero but i think that's the thing that's so vulnerable about it is that you're like talking about your entire sexual history or like or lack thereof right and so i think that's why it feels like such a reveal is because like you're like the person sitting across from you like if they were to be like okay that's your sexual history like these are all of the people you know like that's a lot to share yeah so i think that's part of the reason that it carries so much weight and it's less of like oh being a virgin is such a big deal and more like you're just like disclosing a lot yeah i just thought it was an interesting

thing and i'm not criticizing clayton at all, because again, I think it was the appropriate thing to say in the context in which he said it, because he's a bachelor and he's got to be a gentleman. But in reality, it's the very thing that I think makes that weight more than it needs to be in a situation where people are just like,

hey, I just want to be honest with you, I'm a virgin, but whatever. I assume Clayton is a respectful guy behind closed doors with whoever he's interested in right so it's not like oh i need to be more respectful right to the version you're just yeah you you are respectful you know what i'm saying but there's like this added like oh oh well then i will yeah treat this accordingly anyway so anyways she got a rose but yeah I don't think Teddy's going home right before hometowns yeah yeah yeah I think you can kind of start telling who yeah I don't know I just don't there at the end I mean it feels like enough can I think you can kind of start telling who is going to be there at the end. I just didn't feel like enough connection.

Something could happen with Sarah. I didn't know that was her second one-on-one. Yeah. That's crazy. I didn't know that. It's a big deal. That's huge. Which is honestly, we're truly back to bachelor, old school.

We're back in the mansion we're traveling and with these kind of michelle's season was a little shortened i even think did anyone have a two two-on-ones on you did but like not as much like it and certainly not this early in the season i was gonna say it came pretty early right before hometowns so and that usually that so like sarah's gonna be the first of what's going to say it came pretty early right before hometowns so that usually that so like Sarah's going to be the first of what's going to be like Rachel's going to get a second one Susie's going to get a second one this is like a traditional bachelor season and now like this early second two-in-one that like I had that on that picture you saw that my Venice state in Venice was an early two-in-one that two- that happens before at least one person in the house hasn't gotten any which always like

puts a target on your back and this is like classic bachelor uh story writing um and um did we get into that is that what's next did we have it what was the group date fuck the group date was basically the Viking date of Michelle's season 2.0. Oh, they're eating that. Oh, yeah. Clayton's in heaven. And Serene went balls to the wall.

Serene went hard. She started like pouring the whatever that was. That's crazy. Clayton was a little turned on. That was nuts. Who wasn't? That was really hardcore.

Clayton was just like, she's got it. She's got it. She went for it. was really hardcore. Clayton was just like She's got it. She went for it. Clayton really respected the dedication to win. Whatever it takes mentality. And Clayton loves a Viking themed date so this was what up his

real house. I do love the Basher does this all the time. You open up with this empowerment to like, I love the story about like, I love the history lesson that like creation women back in the dot times would like suit up and do battle. Like love that.

I love that. Yeah. And then fast forward two minutes later, you had these, all of Clayton's women kneeling before him. Like he was a King. It's just like, you just took all that away and just ruined it.

Oh, I hated that. It was awkward. It was cringy as fuck. It made me go back to the jalapeno date that we had to do with Katie and I was just like, oh god. Oh, the proposal. Yeah, I was just like it was weird. It was weird.

They love naked runs and weird food. It's weird. And that started off the Mara drama. And I honestly, like, her speech, it endeared, I thought it was endearing. Her little, she,

and that's the thing, she puts so much effort. You can tell she wants to find love and her version of finding love is to squeeze the shit out of it. What, Allie's rolling her eyes. I'm just saying,

like, I don't agree with how she's going about things. I just, I empathize with her. Okay, yeah, but if you're gonna, like,

give it your all, I think it would've gone so much further for her when she did her kneeling portion to genuinely speak to him and cut the BS. That's not what I'm criticizing. Then,

Ryan. Yeah, I get it. I wanted so much more from her in that moment because I was like tell him how you feel and then it was this weird like rhymey thing. I think she's getting caught up in the moment right now. I think her intentions are there. She really wants

someone. It seems like she's getting a little caught up. I think the whole what episode was that? The last episode when they did the roast. The roast, the cougar thing. I think that, which like, you know, she's- It means shut up, you thirsty bitch. Yeah. Well, she said that.

That was the origin story. That runs her the wrong way because like it's people- The origin story. She's a cougar at what age? 32 and also they called, they were like, she's gap tooth. Like some really, like some stuff that was like not very good coming to talk about. Who said that about?

Sarah. About Mara? Yeah. It seems like they were all really coming at each other. Sarah. Well, 32, well, whatever. But like it was a roast. The gap tooth, physical appearance.

That's. Yeah. I mean, I thought it's a good roast. It's a roast. It was kind of how it worked. They pulled no punches. I'm just saying, I think her guard's a good roast it's a roast it was kind of how it worked they pulled no punches I'm just saying

I think her guard's a little up you know after like people saying like she's this cougar like it just doesn't I don't think I don't think Mara that's like

like doesn't not Mara sweats the small stuff I'm just saying I empathize with her not because I thought it wasn't cringe it's just that like

it rhymed and it was well thought out. She clearly put a lot of effort into it. And like, you could tell she was proud of herself, proud of herself afterwards. And that made me like, it endeared me to her. And then like, obviously shortly thereafter, it was a lot of like, oh fuck. You know, like the age, like she, the age shaming, you know, like you're not ready. Cause you're 23. And I also like when she was talking to Clayton, she's like, when she was like,

well, I don't think there's people ready when, when she was keeping it 100 with Clayton and, um, and she's like, I, uh, and she, she basically was like to one, tell one lie and one truth. And she told the lie, it was a lie because all she wanted to say is they're 23. They're not ready because they're 23. That's how I know. But she even recognized that she couldn't say,

just said that. So she told the lie about like, there are some girls in the house who are even saying things like, I can't imagine. Of course you go in the bachelor house the first couple of weeks and you're just like,

holy shit, are we about to be engaged? Wait, how long is this fucking shit? And you're like, yeah, no, it's like six weeks. So like, wait, so the winner like gets engaged? The person's like, yeah. And you're just like, what? You know, of course people say that. It's bullshit.

She flat out lied. She goes, and then their age. That's all she wanted to say, but she thought she could sweeten the... I don't know. Put some camouflage on it by telling this lie. Like I said, they have

a good rivalry. Yeah. Like after Sarah's one-on-one where she's walking up the stairs and she's like, oh, whoever said this doesn't know what's coming. Yeah. I liked it.

I liked it. I was like, that was natural fire. These are fireworks. What do we feel about like, cause like, again, Mara represents,

uh, she represents women who like they're, they made her into a trope in a sense, right? Like, and maybe Mera is this person, but like, she's in her 30s. Make no mistake, she's beautiful. She has a lot going for her. She's young. But in that world, you know, like the maternal clock, all this is hyper world you know like the maternal clock all this is hyper you know she maris is like she talks about herself like she's 50 you know right and and she's projecting all this like what she feels is like this disappointment with her love life and like where but that happens a

lot people in their like 30s will will often like you know condescend younger people and they will you know like oh well you're you don't know any better and things like that we've all done that right people will do that when we project um it's just really interesting she just loses all that credibility but that that shit happens. It happens all the time. I get it a lot. Merrill represented an audience of people who see younger people falling in love and they haven't found it for themselves

and immediately are just like, there's got to be a reason why. Oh, it's bullshit. They're fake. Oh, they only like them because of a certain reason. They try to take everything away from people just because it's not going for them.

And it's unfortunate. A bachelor contestant, fan favorite. I won't say who she's younger. You'll know why I won't say who, but we were talking about this and, and, and,

and she's like, you know what? I'm like tired of like uh, like the older bachelor contestants. She was referring to some of her peers who are like in their late twenties, early thirties. And they're always like talking shit. How like these younger person, uh, when, oh, like when the cast younger people were part of the drama, she's like, we're not part of the drama. It's always, it's always like these other women who are like three

or four years older than me me causing the drama because like they're projecting their frustrations that they haven't like this has to work and i thought that was a really interesting thing to say and i was just like i never thought of it you know and i was just like looking at past seasons and thinking about who is in the drama and like we always assume it's going to be like the 23, 24 year old. And, uh, and, and this particular, uh, bachelor person was like, yeah, fuck that. I'm tired of like these older, she was saying older, hey, they're not older. They're very young, but it was just like an interesting conversation. She's like, you know, I went there, I wanted to find love, but if it didn't, I'd be fine. And I'd be fine and it just creates an interesting dynamic with what's the story we saw that very much like Mara like represents that kind of person that has a

lot of angst about their love life so do you think any people will side with Mara yeah you do yeah you think there are plenty of people who are like sarah's not yeah she's 23 how can she how can she be ready and okay and i feel like this is maybe an unfair criticism because it's like if you're gonna criticize someone for being confident like i just think like it's very maybe this is unfair but i do think there are some times when i think sarah does become a little bit like cocky like in a way that's not very empathetic or not necessarily i feel like would maybe call attention to other people in the house like i think it's like totally fine to like be confident and feel good about yourself i think there's some times where sarah is kind of like

like yeah i'm 23 and i have two one like i i agree i don't think think Sarah is all that interested in giving off false humility. And I have no problem with that. I fucking hate false humility. That's very true. And why shouldn't Sarah feel confident about getting the attention from The Bachelor, getting the second one-on-one? She's not out there kicking the door down being like, look at me. She authentically cried when she realized she got the second...

You thought those were fake tears? Oh, no. I thought... No, no, no. I thought you were talking about the tears she had on the date. Well, both.

Yeah. Those were... Also, by the way, we skipped over... Again, Genevieve, I think you're a great person. However,

it was... Her best defense about her not being an actor was the fake crying she gave to Clayton on their one-on-one time where it was like, that was some bullshit, right? That was some fake. Am I the only one who thought that was fake crying? There was a lot of crying. It was a lot of trying to cry. Yeah, a lot of it.

And Sinead even did it. She pulled it off. Yeah, but then she said that. Sinead is a better hitter. She goes like, I cried, yeah. I was like, I hate this villain. Not natural. This is Jared Leto.

That's a great take. Dude, that's what it is. Oh, she was the one that said she was Meryl Streep yeah come on she stole that from you yeah

look at that dude she's just stealing everyone's but yeah Genevieve had some like very forced tears yeah

and I only bring that back because Sarah's felt far more organic you disagree yeah that was wild. Amanda disagrees. I agree.

I disagree as well. You think Sarah's tears were fake? I don't think they were fake. I think there was some emotion to it, but I think they were a little bit. It felt like, okay, and again, I say this not from a place of like, I'm sure I could have the capacity to do this as well,

so I don't mean to be judgmental, but it sort of felt like tantrum like I'm not getting exactly what I want and like the way she was like expressing her frustration felt very like I always watch Clayton when they start crying and he's just like fuck he's like fuck me

he's like not again why are we crying right now you know what I mean I'm just like, I feel bad. I'm like, I was like, oh, this has got to be really tough for him. It's so hard. Because the truth is he doesn't care. That's what it looks like.

You know, he's like, again, all jokes aside, like, you know, what's her name again who called Clayton a liar? Lindsay. Lindsay. Lindsay. Maybe she said something, like, I'm sure she remembers her truth or whatever, but, and Clayton probably was on his 15th conversation that night.

It was probably three in the morning. He was just like, what's Rachel and Susie doing? And like, Lindsay sits down and she's like, can I gossip? And Clayton's just like, fuck sure. His mind might be thinking about his last conversation for a second. That's a tough job.

That is such a tough job. That is happening. That is 100% happening. Yeah. So, yeah. And then like, so some,

so he has these conversations and all, and all these women are like amped up. It's like for their big moment. Well, you know, you know how it works. You wait three days, that five minute conversation. So they're just like, and they sit down,

they have this story lined up and just like, I'm going to tell them about what I'm going to do. It's time. And I don't know where Clayton's like, I heard you're an actor, you know? And they're just like, what? And then like their mind unravels. And like, you know what I'm saying?

It's not going according to plan that's how that shit works yeah um i don't know i uh i guess i didn't see i saw i felt genevieve's were more forced than sarah's but like she could be a better actor which again but jenny's genevieve's best defense was not her answer. It was her trying to act. Too harsh? No, I was just thinking about her response right off the bat. She was just shocked. She was just like, what?

Well, yeah, I mean, it was because it was bold. I mean, Mera lied. No, no, that was Sinead. We're talking about Sinead. Oh, we're back to Genevieve I got off track no Sarah's I thought was genuine you thought it was?

yeah the whole time though? listen maybe that's my lack of watching this season I haven't watched it I was like Craig is sensitive to people

criticizing acting also that also that Sarah wasn't criticized for being acting though she was being criticized Greg is sensitive to people criticizing acting. Also that. Also that. Also that. Sarah wasn't criticized for being acting though. She was being criticized for being fake. I mean, call it what you want.

I mean, it wasn't like actual acting classes, but like… I think she was sad like, oh, this sucks. But nobody in the house called me an actor. Everyone knew I was in it in the house. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You were in deep. Yeah.

Sorry, dude. We all knew this guy was in it in the house. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You were in deep. Yeah. Fuck, I did. We all knew this guy was in deep. Greg was giving acting 101 classes in New Mexico. He's like, I guess I'll teach you. I'm like, I don't know. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I know.

I read it. I have a field day with you. I'm just kidding. So, yeah. So, yeah. Interesting. So, it seems like the house is split what about you Allie

I don't know what to believe these days everyone was crying there was so much emotion this episode oh many tears and at the end of the day look at the Susie's

and the Rachel's the whole situation I think they're the two front runners at this point and they haven't cried excellent point

yeah done over with see you next season. I will say, let's talk about the Susie little meetup. It goes to show just how I want to pull

you guys. I'm also pulling my audience. When that was happening, when Clayton got this note and you're just like, oh my god. Who thought it was going to be a cringe moment of a maybe it was a desperation from Mara who thought that was the

note writer at first yeah like she's saying I'm leaving or something like that did you think like did you suspect it to be a fan favorite no I was expecting the fan favorite you were what about for some reason I didn't I didn't expect Mara be a fan favorite? No. I was expecting the fan favorite. You were? Yeah. And what about? For some reason,

I didn't expect Mara because I feel like they're going to build that drama up and if they would've had a one-on-one. I guess I was kind of expecting it to be a cringe moment

and therefore expecting intense music. And it just completely could have changed your point of view on the meetup. If it was Mara, what kind of music

it would have been like? I'm going home. I can't do this anymore. That's what I thought was going to happen. Yeah, like kind of music? Oh, I don't think she would have said.

She's a fighter. She is not quitting. You're right. You're right. We would have needed the music that they played when Hannah Brown was crying

looking at all the artwork before she sent Mike home. That's the music we would have needed. Drama. Drama. Yeah. Anyway, Clayton is super into Suzy. Oh, yeah.

And all you really need to know is why is like, again, this little meetup happened after a whole day of dating. What did he do? Is that a group date that day? Was it a group date? Oh, my God. Group dates are exhausting. Exhausting.

And he got back to his hotel. It's probably one, two in the morning. I don't know what time it is. It's late. He's tired. All he is excited to do is order room service,

go to bed and he gets a fucking card. And he's just like, fuck, who the fuck do I have to talk to? You know, he has no idea.

He's like, fuck, I hope it's someone i like and he goes out there and suzy and the guy lights up like a fucking christmas tree he's jacked he's pumped you know what i'm saying like not everyone could have got that reaction out of out of a very tired clayton and no suzy got it that was very telling and that had some winter energy to it oh yeah so that moment they can't like that's one of like I know

they're both gonna like think about that forever so like maybe maybe Susie and Rachel are the two people he's in love with and he has sex with you know

to me that also like confirmed Susie being the bachelorette cause like if the show is gonna like give her like that like very like they're already kind of giving her

like a storybook she has bachelorette like written all over her yeah she's uh bachelorette in the face well I mean if like what if Clayton picks her I mean I don't know Clayton likes her She has Bachelorette written all over her. Bachelorette in the face. Well, I mean,

what if Clayton picks her? I don't know. Clayton likes her. But Rachel. I know, it's tough, but this is one of those seasons where we're lucky enough that I think the lead is truly into more than one person. They're not just into one person and really like two

more. He's in love with three. He's like, really? I think he truly is. Who's your third? Well, he says, I love you to three women. Oh. Right?

I don't know. It's unclear. He certainly says that he has sex with two. We know that much. I feel like he was like, I'm in love with all three of you in the super tease.

Either way, it sounds like it's a messy ending. Yeah. That much we know. Wait, I have a question for you guys, which is that Clayton gave Rachel a second group date rose. What do you think about giving group date roses to the same person?

If they're clearly your front runner, do you think it's better to sprinkle it out and give other people hope? You know what? I loved it. And also, I was like, shit, I never got a group date rose. I would have loved one. I thrived in group date roses. You did. No, you wouldn't have.

What's that? I wouldn't have wanted a group date rose? Not Mr. First Impression, first one-on-one, and gets the first second one-on-one. He breaks the record for the most roses without being in a rose ceremony. I know you're among friends, but you start getting a couple group date roses early on too, and I don't know if you guys are friends right now.

I'm just saying. I'm kidding. But there's a method to the madness. I was also never showboated that in the house. No. Dude was a humble brag for sure. Nice. You were good.

Just saying. Yeah, no. So what do you think of Greg getting his fourth group date? No, but I don't see that. I mean, I think it's also just way more telling who's hot. For sure. Absolutely. I loved it.

I think that's how it should go. I liked it too. And it was, like, imagine, like, Merrick complaining about not having one. So what happened? Sarah got a second one-on-one. Susie got some private alone time. Rachel got out.

Like it was like, it was a, that all that was a in your face. That was all a fuck you essentially. Yeah. Not Clayton's fuck you. You know what I'm saying? It was poetic in the in the hurt you cut to complaining about not getting attention more more validation more validation other people i think the um third girl that's going to make a run is serene in my opinion i i i i think she's my favorite i she has like silent confidence to her she does but i think her silence

i don't know if clayton's is into her some of the other ones i appreciate like silent confidence to her she does but I think her silence I don't know if Clayton's is into her or some of the other ones I appreciate silent confidence you know okay dude no I know but I just

I don't think Clayton I agree with you that like I think for a lot of people they'd be like why are you here yeah you want to date me

that's what I'm saying I think she should be legit but I don't know I'm not seeing that Rachel Susie Sarah chemistry

that Clayton has with Serene well maybe she hasn't gone to 101 yet she did well maybe she did okay she did

yeah alright and it went well it was like it was in the Teddy ballpark I'm like yeah nice time okay but not no sparks no sparks okay And it went well. It was in the Teddy ballpark. Nice time.

Some nice things. No sparks. Him and Rachel are just like... I was like, these guys... When he talks to Rachel and Susie, it's not quite Sarah. There's a sense of relief. Of like, I can be myself. I don't have to be the bachelor.

When he's with Susie and Rachel, he's Clayton. And when he's with all these other women. I would say Gabby as well though. I feel like they had a really good conversation. I think Gabby makes it easy. Right. Because she's actually,

she's really fun to be around. I really love her humor. She has these little one-liners. I do want to ask clayton though like why like and i i mean i know the answer of why clayton's doing it but i wish this is where clayton's getting himself in trouble and why he's being in take i feel like producers are getting greedy it's just like every fucking like tea or gossip that goes to Clayton. Clayton, he doesn't shut down any of it.

You know what I'm saying? Like when I was the bachelor and I can't speak for everyone else or other bachelors, but like, you know, for example, if someone talks shit about Vanessa and people did, like some of the women tried to talk shit about Vanessa. I was like, okay, I didn't care.

You know what I'm saying like and maybe that's what happened like maybe Susie and Rachel are getting that cover I don't know oftentimes I didn't care because it was just like fuck man you know but like every single one he's like well I heard this I heard that he's like he is and even Sarah like he seems to really like Sarah and I guess that's why and that's why it rang a bell with me. Because with Sinead and Elizabeth and all those people he's not clearly into. He's clearly into Sarah.

And so I would have liked more pushback from Clayton to Mara rather than Clayton going to Sarah and being like, that's what I heard. that's also what I heard. That's also how I felt.

Because I'm like, this girl's getting her second one-on-one. You guys are obviously connecting. And then obviously him and Mara aren't anywhere near the same level. But it also could have been a make or break one-on-one. Like just weaving it out. Could be. And that's what they sell it as sometimes. But I think he really likes Sarah.

You think so? I think, like he said, they're in a beautiful... They're in Croatia right now. I don't think you're giving that one-on-one just to anyone. I just didn't see it with them in the second time around.

I think maybe because... Well, it's because they were focused. You don't see it because that date was used as an interrogation rather than a way to advance their relationship. Yeah, that's... And again, I know it's not all Clayton, Because that date was used as an interrogation rather than a way to like advance the relationship. Yeah.

And again, I'm not, I know it's not all Clayton, but I wish he would push back on some of this stuff. Yeah. To the point where he's just like, I don't care. And I wish, and I, part of it is because I don't know. I think where it is Clayton's fault is because had he, had Mara came to him with this, I heard some bullshit. And, and also like she's,

she's young. I wish Clayton would have been like in the most respectful possible way, kind of basically told Mara to worry about herself, you know, but like, Hey, like, thank you for the input,

but, um, I can't really speak to the other stuff. But as far as the age goes, you're clearly generalizing. And this is my journey, and I had to make some choices for myself. And age is a variable, but can you give me a specific reason as to why, other than just her age, or are you just generalizing? I wish he would have pushed back on Mara so that he didn't have to interrogate Sarah as much so that he could focus his attention.

And, but because he didn't, that gave, you know, people an opportunity to be like, you have to talk about this with Sarah. But I do love and appreciate his, you know,

him hearing everyone's voices. And I, like that's, that's very tough. But he's a good listener, which is a really good trait. But also I know it's very taxing on him. I can feel it. It's taxing on him. And unfortunately, people are not appreciating his, what he is doing and criticizing what he's not doing.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, if Cain's not your guy, he's not your guy. But he is nice and, and criticizing what he's not doing. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, okay. It's not your guy. It's not your guy, but he is nice. Great guys. Respectful.

And he's polite. And I don't know how this ends, but the guy's being like what, what he's being crucified every week. Yeah. I know he was doing this, like maybe before he developed such a strong connection with Rachel, but I think a lot of his language about like, you know, the stuff he's getting accused of being like very like,

that was a good performance and kind of like coach and generic and platitudes and whatnot to everyone. Like, I think to me, that strikes me as like, I have a winner and I'm speaking as if we are watching this after the fact together. Like, I think that makes, I think a lot of the stuff where, you know, because like when people give him, like criticize him for being too coached. That's not on him. That's what I'm saying. Bachelor Nation crucified this guy for taking an acting class. And now we're crucifying Clayton because he can't like pretend not to like people.

And this is the show's fault. This season, when I was The Bachelor, one thing I just wouldn't fucking say, I would never be like, I'm really falling in love with 15 women. Because I'm like, I'm not. And I would just, I would fight. I'm not saying that. How early on did you know who you're talking about?

Early. Really? Yeah. I feel that. And so every week we're watching the season, Clayton's like, I'm really falling in love with these 12 people. I he's not and it's just like they make him say that because like that's like bachelor 101 from like the roots of this show and that takes away his

credibility because like we don't really think about when he says it but i just feel like it's such an insane thing to say it's just like stepping a whispering stepping away it's just like a not human normal thing to say so you lose credibility you're just like of course you're not falling for 10 women at once you know we see you interact with suzy rachel and then we see you interact with you know mara so stop stop saying but like that's not him i don't know why they insist on having their leads say that shit. You know? I don't get it.

Fucking drives me nuts. But I digress. All right. Anyways, give me your top four. Rachel, Suzy, Gabby, Serene. And do you think Rachel or Suzy wins? Rachel. I'm going to go. I don't see how she doesn't.

I'm going to go Suzy, Rachel, Gabby. And it's a toss-up between Teddy and Serene. Suzy, Rachel, Gabby. You don a toss up between Teddy and Serene Susie Rachel Gabby you don't think Sarah makes it nah

I think that date last night was pretty telling yeah just how he reacted I could tell I think you could tell it

in his eyes maybe that's just from a guy's point of view but when I see him looking at Rachel and Susie it's just like it's not quite the same so you don't do you think and that's just from a guy's point of view, but when I see him looking at Rachel and Susie, it's just like it's not quite the same. So you don't, do you think,

and that's the important question, did Clayton not believe Sarah's tears? I think he didn't. I just knew he's like, I like this girl more than I like the other seven or whatever besides his top three. Who do you want to be the next Bachelorette? Either Gabby or Susan.

Gabby would be great in television, for sure. I think, I honestly, the last couple episodes I watched, I don't think she's been shown that much, Gabby. But I've cracked up every single time. I really appreciate her little one liners like that she says I think that'd be good for but I also really appreciate Serene like I just feel like she's very

ready and she comes off it's just like so like confident and I just I just and she dresses so well I think she's too polished and too quiet and I don't think she's too quiet I think she's got for the show I'm not talking this is not a criticism

as a human being I was also pretty quiet yeah you're also not the bachelorette well that's true that's true I'm saying I was also

okay also the bachelor and the bachelorette they cast for different reasons yeah they like they like their bachelorettes to

not be quiet yeah well that's that's good like Brie i love brie brie's also like not quiet at all like you get brie out and have some drinks like brie's got some great takes great takes but like brie would even be like i'm not saying that on tv you know like and and she is very polished and very uh in control and thoughtful with her answers. And I think Serene reminds me, on screen, someone who I bet if you get Serene alone

and have a drink with her, I bet she has a lot to say. And probably really interesting stuff. But she's like, I don't know if I want or need to say here. And that's totally great. But I don't know if I want to need and want or need to say here and that's totally great but I don't I don't know if that's bachelorette material right right

the fish said it all I think for Serene that showed her range the fish she does have range yes I think she's great

but I just don't know if she'll be the bachelorette gentlemen thank you so much for coming it's been a pleasure thanks for having us where could people

follow you on the gram anything anything else you guys are working on you want to promote Bachelor Live on stage I don't know that's a thing but I'll be there

yeah you will yeah I'm trying to have Greg come on but I don't know don't be the guy who goes home

with a fan that won't be that won't be him yeah that's it'll happen if who do you think

it might happen with if you could say I'm not gonna say this I do have a person in mind but I'm I'm going to not say that I don't think you would too

well it's not the movie oh no not me no but I'm very very good with that definitely definitely gonna happen

oh yeah for sure guys thanks so much glad to see that the living situation seems to be going well, yeah, for sure. Guys, thanks so much. Glad to see that the living situation seems to be going well. Oh, yeah. Are you guys going to be making this move-in together official? This was like a trial run. This was a trial run. It's actually going really well.

I don't know. I just need to go back to Chicago for a little bit and see. Yeah, I got to get back to New York City. But we were thinking about going to do another month somewhere else. Maybe Austin. Check that out. Or Boston. Austin or Boston. Alright, well, Austin and Boston. You might be getting the...

Boston? Spence. Spence. Spence. Spence and Greg. But watch what I wear. Coming to a city near you, the Stenamic Duo. Greg, congrats on whatever it is

you call this love affair that you have. Hey, we're figuring out. Appreciate it. I am single and looking for a Valentine. So if anyone is available tonight, let me know. Just stay out of those DMs. Yeah.

Wait for the beach if you're going to go. Okay. Don't get that fucking Brandon at it. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You know what?

You know how you listed your top three? Mm-hmm. That's great. Just don't be like talking to your top three. No. You know what I'm saying? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

I know. I believe in you. Sometimes it needs to be said because every once in a while it's like no I'm just talking it's you're so fucked

you know yeah well they were like seen in public together I was like that's wild anyway guys thanks so much thanks for listening guys

I hope you enjoyed this episode thank you Clayton for sharing all your thoughtful answers we wish you nothing but the best in your journey for love,

as well as these guys, wherever they find it. And keep listening tomorrow for the wonderful Taylor Tomlinson will be with us. You will not want to miss that. Bye.