The Viall Files - E385 Bachelor Recap With Mariel Molino

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

Today we are joined by actress and SUPER Bach fan, Mariel Molino, as we dive into the latest on Clayton’s crazy season. On this episode we start with some Hot Goss, talking about vasectomies as birth control, trying to win over the fanbase in a breakup, and if Hannah Brown has still not followed her new sister in law. We then dive into the episode itself and talk about how everything is getting more intense leading up to hometowns, who had the most believable fake tears, and Clayton stepping up to call out BS. We then talk about how an indecisive Bachelor seems sloppy, a clearly one sided therapist, and how Clayton’s hot sexy romance with Susie may be too surface level to last. We also predict who the next Bachelorette will be and who won’t last after hometowns.  “If it gets messy, usually the Bachelor doesn’t look good.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Away Travel: Start your 100-day trial and shop the entire Away lineup of travel essentials, including their best-selling suitcases, at http://www.AwayTravel.com/VIALL Wondery: Listen to Even the Rich and Rich and Daily on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @marielmolino See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files bachelor recap edition i'm your host nick joined by ali Amanda, and our very wonderful special guest, Mariel Molino is with us today. The very talented and wonderful actor from the hit show, Promise Land. But more importantly, and way more importantly, avid Bachelor follower and listener of The Vile Files. Yes, sir. If I understand correctly. And Ask Nick.

And Ask Nick. Oh, wow. Do you want to come back for an Ask Nick episode? Oh, hell yeah. All right. We'll see how this goes, sir. If I understand correctly. And Ask Nick. And Ask Nick. Oh, wow. Do you want to come back for an Ask Nick episode? Oh, hell yeah. All right. We'll see how this goes, though. Okay. How long have you been a Basher fan?

Just so people can make sure they can trust your hot takes and credit. I have been seeing this every season since Emily Maynard. Emily Maynard. Okay. OG. Yeah, I'm an OG. Before I watched. Before you watched, before you were on the show, and interesting enough,

I feel like I've been on my own journey with you, you know. As all of America, right? But I just hated you, you know. Especially with Andy, and then with Caitlin. I don't get the Caitlin so much.

I feel like Caitlin was still the residuals of Andy, but… For me, it wasn't about you. It was more about Sean and Caitlin. Like, I was just a stan. Root for them. Such a stan. Go back and watch it. I know.

I rewatched it. Well, they did you dirty, dude. They really did. No, but just go back and watch it now with the same edit yeah I mean I don't think you should

like don't waste your time but if you did yeah I think you would feel differently and then obviously Batshom Paradise I was like

oh man this guy he's a guy he's a good guy and you know and here we are and here we are and here we are

we should remember that as we talk about this episode before we get into the tea, just a quick, Megan Traynor is with us tomorrow. Amazing episode. Her brother Ryan, who I had the pleasure of meeting, also is

joining us. They have a new hit podcast. We'll be talking about a ton of things. Megan Traynor's life included. I've been trying to get her brother out there dating as well. We have an amazing mediation call lined up as well. And we're going to talk.

Have you been watching Love is Blind? I have the second season. Yeah, I'm into it. I have my thoughts, man. Shane. Shane, the guy. Yeah, the guy.

I'm not totally caught up. You guys don't. I'm on like episode three. Shane, like. I'm on like three or four. Oh, then we're.… I'm on like episode three. Shane, like… I'm on episode four. Oh, then we're… I think you got to keep going. Shane, like…

Shane's the one person that like… Every time you're like, no, douche. Like, douche. Then he comes back. He's surprisingly… He's surprising me because at first,

it's like red flag and then it's like… Then he comes around. He never… I mean, he wants love. I think he's earnest in that, but he's playing. I also feel like...

You think he's playing? Oh, man, he's playing. I'm not so sure. I keep thinking that, then they come back around. They seem to be, surprisingly, one of the healthiest couples. I mean, who's the couple...

Who's the first couple that fell in love? The first one to get engaged? Oh, man. she has like a she's like a host now right what's her name no no no not that one

oh on season two this episode Nick and Danielle the ones that and Danielle I love watching they're great you think they're great

like as in like yeah you don't they're fine terribly toxic I love watching them fight they're a train wreck.

Oh, well, I'm only on episode two or end of two. Oh, my God. I haven't seen them in the real world. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. He seemed so great. You know what? That's what I'm saying.

Shane, give it time. You're like, oh, my God. Oh, interesting. I'm not sure yet, he really Like oh It turns It's wild But he gave me Anger issue vibes 100% with the crayon thing

It was really weird Like bro-y Yes bro-y It doesn't matter If you're angry Like 5% of the time Or like 1% of the time Like if you're like

Scary when you're angry Like that's A deal breaker Yes but He did not get scary When he was angry He showed signs of it And people are allowed

To get angry 1% of the time let's let's uh we all laying on the floor too like through a bit of it yeah you know i'm telling you though like going forward i would yes that was a red flag but then all of a sudden he seems to change a little bit i put a mic put a camera on you when you're angry Amanda I'd love to see I'd love to see your reactions I'm just saying he definitely showed some red flags for sure but like watch Nick and what's her name I think you're allowed to be angry

I think you're allowed to be upset I don't think you should have to be perfect all the time but I do think there's a certain type flavor of anger that to me feels really disconcerting where do think like there's a certain type like flavor of anger that to me feels really disconcerting like where it feels like there's a real like oh I don't know what you're gonna do like kind of like I don't know what you're gonna do next no and he was manipulating Shaina he was like why would you ask that he definitely he's not my favorite I'm just saying in a sea of garbage and I don't mean people. Like these relationships are... Whoa.

We'll get into The Bachelor. But you know what I like about Love is Blind? It reminds me. You know what it is? It's The Bachelor after they get engaged. Speaking of which. Hot take. Yeah.

Anyway, tomorrow, tune in. Meghan Trainor, Mediation, Some Love is Blind. You won't want to miss that. All right, Allie, we're ready for you. Great. Let's do it. Okay. So in no particular order, we're going to start out.

Lauren and Ari did a little interview with Us Weekly talking about their life as a young family and if they would potentially want to have more kids. Ari has had a vasectomy. Those are reversible. He has? Yes. Did we find that out in this interview or is that old news?

I feel like they've probably been talking about it openly. It didn't feel like a big reveal. I feel like I've heard that. You have? Okay. Yeah. So they were talking about that is reversible and then Ari mentioned something about how he didn't always view their age gap as a big thing.

He's 40, she's 30. But he was saying, obviously, we don't want more kids right now because our kids are so young and that's a lot. How many kids? They have two or three? They have two. And I don't think they're like, we don't want to do like three under three. But he was like, I'm 40 now. I don't know if I necessarily want to start having another kid at 45

because he's like, I'm not necessarily a young dad now, but I don't want to be having another kid at 45 because he's like, I'm not necessarily a young dad now, but I don't want to be any older. I just didn't realize people were getting bisectomies as a temporary form of birth control. I've always known it was reversible, but is it relatively easily reversible? Is it a surgical

procedure? Do you have to go under to do it? I don't know. I've never done it. I'm just looking at you because you would. Yeah, I don't think, you, I don't, I don't know. I've never, I've never done it. I'm just looking at you because you would. Yeah, I don't, I don't think, my understanding, it's not super invasive. I do, I think it's like, I don't think this is an overnight situation, whether you're under, I don't know. Yeah, interesting.

Interesting form of birth control. But like, you know. Just, as a married couple, like, pull out. Yeah, right? I don't know. Like, I would rather just be like, oops. You know. Here we are.

I mean, it's gotten me this far. Oh, God. Well, I haven't had a vasectomy. All right. Well, congrats to. Just a little potential, I guess, baby update. Not really. I will say when I think we should...

I really don't know what happens at the end of this season. I keep hearing small rumors how much of a shit show it is. And I'm worried for Clayton. I will say that much. You know, with the I had sex with two people kind of stuff. You know, there's remnants of Peter. There's remnants of Ari and Becca. I don't know how it's going to go.

But let's not forget Ari and Lauren's love story. They have two kids. We're rooting for them. Becca Kufrin, now happy with Thomas. Everyone's happy. And we fucking hated Ari. Now, again, this is not a preview of what, I don't know if it's going to be a switch route.

I have no idea. but I do think. Oh, you think it's in that lane? I think, I have no idea. I really don't know. I just, I hear it's messy. You know, I actually didn't hate Ari for that. I think he was crucified because, you know, they shot it. But it's because of that, that she's the Bachelorette.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was in Becca's favor. And obviously, it catapulted her to be the Bachelorette. A hundred percent. But either way, I mean, it's just one of those things. And if it gets messy, usually the Bachelor is not going to look good. Because there's this weird thing

it's like we I think as viewers we watch this show knowing the rules and like you can you know group dates and handing out multiple roses and dating multiple people and fantasy suite hey you know you signed up for that type of stuff

but once like it gets down to the final I think like there's this unspoken expectation that the audience have of don't be like don't you're once you get close to the end it's like don't don't be of the fuck boy don't like get sloppy have a decision made don't you know because it gets too close to the end I think it starts reminding the people watching of like their own own lives and dating with the flip-flopping and the their own indecision and like saying the words of affirmation and having sex and saying i love you only to change your mind and say you know and then it and then it gets it hits too close to home i think to the audience and especially if you're the bachelor, right? Because we already have this double standard

of like, if a man does it to the woman, you know? Yeah. We're tougher on them. I think, yeah. I think there's part of it is historically, I think men have gotten away with that type of behavior. And now when we watch it and we have an audience primarily

of women, I think when we watch the bachelorettes do it, there's a level of, you know what, finally, you know what, empowerment. We can go to the fantasy suite and do this because we've been judged for so long for embracing our sexuality and things like that. And even though when The Bachelor does it now, we don't offer that same kind of grace because it's like,

see, you've always fucking done this shit. You're doing it again. We thought you were one of the good ones. You proved us wrong. You can't control yourself. Yeah, so we'll see. But I'm just saying like whatever happens, let's just remember that Ari and Lauren

and Becca and Thomas are all better off. That's all I'm saying. And that is not a preview. I truly have no idea. And I'm working hard to not be spoiled. What else is out? Well, speaking of couples that are still together, Matt and Rachel are still together,

even though they didn't technically finish the season together. But speaking of Matt James, he played in an all-star basketball game. And people are kind of criticizing him because he accidentally, it was like a tap or a touch, Brittany Elena's chest when he was shooting his foul shots. Brittany said it was fine. It was an accident. He apologized, but Tyler Cameron did tweet at his best friend and kind of raked him through the coals a bit and said, damn Matt, airballed two free throws and a boob punch.

Not your night. And after your golf swing at the Waste Management Open, we're running out of sports you can try. Oh, damn. Some good bromance. I don't know. Oh, man, those two. Tyler's single now, right?

So are you? I believe so. Right? Yeah, you a big fan? I mean, I saw him on an app, so I'm assuming believe so right you a big fan I mean I saw him on an app so I'm assuming did you swipe right yeah

okay yeah yeah well Tyler if you're listening yeah yeah I mean it sounds like

you know it was an accident it was an innocent mistake I just thought it was funny that Tyler called him out for it hey maybe you're traveling some more you know summer's approaching you might have some trips lined up maybe just a weekend gateway well get some good luggage treat yourself with away i've

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Janet. We still love her, but for whatever reason, society ruined her career. But what happened? Because she was at the peak? A nipple popped out. It seemed like it was more Justin's fault than hers. We don't really know, but she was at her peak. Janet really took it on the chin.

And that's a fascinating story. And Janet was so influential in all of our lives pop pop culture-wise, along with Mariah Carrier, Madonna, her brother. So what's the real story? Find out more with Wondery's Even the Rich. Listen to Even the Rich and The Rich and Daily on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.

Brandon J. might have been inspired by one Mr. Nicholas Vial and got a tattoo of a lighthouse on his arm and posted, Brightness, even in the darkest times. Does that have to do with Michelle? I hope not. God. I want to get a lighthouse. But it's big.

No, I saw it. It's a cool tattoo. I very much hope it was not like based off of such a fleeting experience yes I hope it was not

based off his solely based off his bachelor because he's probably still processing it and it's a very permanent oh for sure

come on oh my god he's still processing get over it no a little is it okay I think it'd be a little

harsh really oh shoot I mean yes he was so in love. I mean, yeah, get over it. Sure. I think if Brandon was walking around the streets of LA and I bumped into him and he's just like moping around,

hanging his head, I would, yes, I would be like, hey. But how is he? I mean, I don't know. I haven't talked to him since we had the pleasure of interviewing him. But yes, I think I would say, hey, man, you got to start getting over it. But I think if he came in here and we talked and said, Brandon, how you doing? He said, you know, I'm great.

I'm doing well. I'm dating. But like, yeah, I think it still kind of affects me to a certain degree. I think that would be fair. Oh, of course. But if he's getting a tattoo, you know. I truly hope he did not get the tattoo solely based off. I don't want to say for Michelle, but I hope, and I suspect that it's not, right?

But I think that's a nice thing is like if you get a tattoo, even if you have one meaning in mind when you get it, I think as you pivot and grow, you can kind of assign, you know, like I feel like lightness in the dark is something you can probably apply to most things in your life. And I think maybe this experience was a teachable moment for him, right? Like it taught him to overcome adversity. It taught him that he can be laser focused and be sure about his feelings and intentions only to realize, hey, life throws you curve balls.

Oh, he was so sweet. He was great. Yeah. It's a cool tattoo. you curveballs. Oh, he was so sweet. He was great. Yeah. It's a cool tattoo. Speaking of moving on,

Riley has posted. They've been kind of, you know, Riley and Marissa have been very radio silent about their whole breakup. We all speculated. He had a very long post about how he's doing.

Some of the quotes in the post were, this has not been an easy time. This has been one of the most difficult times of my life. And that he was always taught that we bend, but we don't break.

But like kind of an overall sentiment of you can try and try and try, but it doesn't always work out. Great. And then Deandra, friend of Marissa, also in Bachelor Nation, tweeted a couple things. And she said, I'm not an inherently messy person, but when I see things in real time and then see smoke, see, it's somehow skewed, that perception for social

media, it's very scary. It's not okay by any means to be the catalyst of your own demise and then go onto socials and ask for the public's sympathy. There are always two sides to a story. And Marissa retweeted both of those. Hasn't he been, even when they were dating,

kind of like seen with the boys and like hanging out at clubs and doing all this stuff, kind of like. Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean. No, it doesn't mean you're in the wrong on anything. I am really curious to see what happened because I loved them

I really was rooting for them yeah I was a big fan of them and it's just like he seems like such a stand up guy he had so many instances where he really was like this voice of reason

for a lot of the stuff that was going on on the beach and like yeah but I think it's not fair for you to tell someone not to you don't know if he's not going through a hard time regardless of what he

did i didn't do i've met the it's i i know too much oh no well then can you not i can't say too much i've only heard one side of it. It's not great. Oh, no. I think they should stop tweeting. If someone wants to come out and share their side of the story, then I guess do that. But I think these trying to win the breakup with cryptic tweets, because here we are speculating about it enough of people

i think know stuff you know like uh deandra knows stuff i've heard i haven't i haven't heard firsthand but i've heard from people i trust but i've only heard one side but this was his instagram caption yeah so he posted on Instagram with a super long caption. And then Deandra tweeted those couple things. And then Marissa retweeted Deandra's two tweets. Okay, got it. They're clearly tweeting with intention, right? It's a PR thing.

Yeah. Right? Otherwise, you just talk to your friends. Yeah. Right? They have a public relationship. So I get why. I get the motivation. But at the end of the day it's a PR thing

Riley's trying to win the PR game Marissa's not posting but she's retweeting the DeAndre stuff she's even more cryptically trying to win the PR game

and it's very low key but nevertheless it's still like otherwise just don't tweet it yeah don't retweet

and finally another bachelor couple of well technically exes we all remember that hannah talked about one mr peter weber in her book god bless this mess how they hooked up uh peter has spoken and has said quote if two people have a private situation and talk and they say they're going to keep it private I just keep it private I don't know she now has done that to me on two occasions where she said

she's not going to say anything and then she says something gotta sell them books oi oi oi I mean what do you ladies think because

do you think there's a double standard oh yeah I feel like this has popped up a couple times as these bachelor books have been coming out

I mean you could even say it about Rachel's book. Do you think there's a double standard between when women from Bachelor Nation write tell-alls versus men who write tell-alls and spill their tea? Yeah. Yeah, I think it goes back to what we were talking about of how when a woman does it, it's empowerment, and then the men have to be more careful. I mean, I just think it's like...

And do you think that's okay? No, I don't think it's like... And do you think that's okay? No. I don't think it's okay. I think what happens in a private moment should stay private. You shouldn't use it to sell books. You shouldn't use it for clickbait, in my opinion. But at the same time, it's like a slippery slope because you guys have really gone on a public platform. Yeah. yeah you know not only in

bachelor nation right yeah i'm assuming like that's what like hannah's publisher was like hey listen your your relationship started on tv yeah it was public then so that's one argument but the other argument is like well you know as someone who's been in it, yeah, you agree to go on TV, but when the cameras are off and people have started relationships outside of, people in Bachelor Nation have started relationships outside of Bachelor World. And if two people, again, I wasn't there, but according to Peter, it sounds like they had this kind of,

hey, let's just not make this a public thing. Let's see how this goes. Now, is that, you know. Well, yeah, cameras weren't rolling when they had that, you know. They were at a party, right? But then like, we've seen in Bachelor Paradise, we've seen the implication from women in Paradise being like, I mean, as hard as I've been on blake horseman like uh and i'm not hard on him for i'm hard on him for releasing the tweets but the he was vilified for silencing uh women on the beach because he was like why are you telling everyone we hooked up

right you know so like where do you yeah where do you draw the line i feel like it's an interesting question like even as it relates to like non-reality couples of like at what point do you get ownership of an interaction you have with someone versus to what extent do you owe them privacy? I think ownership is the wrong word. Or autonomy over it. At what point do you have the right to say, this was an experience that affected me and so it is a part of my story and I should have like the choice of when to share or tell that story yeah because it's like because it's a fine line between that and protecting someone's privacy it seems like when a guy talks about it he's risking slut shaming yeah I think there's a very different history behind it also like I think if you look at the way that like and I'm curious

about this because obviously like I haven't been in all male spaces as a man but it's it seems like sometimes the tone that we associate with that setting is a lot more like like the idea of like a guy sharing details about like his sex life or whatever it is with a bunch of guys feels a lot it's like locker room talk yeah like that exists potentially ickier sure I mean locker room talk guy guys bragging and talking about sexual conquests has always been and i'm sure is still a thing there's that happens that does not mean every guy does it doesn't even mean most guys do it so it it does seem to be a bit of a slippery slope to assume that oh well you know he's just he's bragging about with his buddies you to assume that, oh, well, you know, he's just, he's bragging about with his buddies.

To assume every guy is bragging about it with his buddies. And therefore that gives me the freedom to tell anyone I want, even though we agreed to keep this between us, because like, can it not affect a guy's mental health? If, if you're going around talking about how he is or isn't in bed you know it's things like that you know it's just like people do that like so lightly like people body shame men yeah yeah and it's like and sex shame men totally you know you know i don't know yeah it's like a and i think yeah i don't know because you kind of took away the windmill stuff right or no well you know that's kind of took away the windmill stuff right or no

well you know that's one of those that was again back to another double you know it was funny when they talked about like yeah Hannah was just like

national TV by the way I mean they laughed because it was seemed flattering it was very flattering it was very flattering

it's all context like when it's flattering it's a fine when it's when it's you know it's it is it's when it's flattering, it's a fine. When it's, you know, it is. It's a threading of the needle for sure. Yeah, I guess all I can say is, you know, I think we all agree that if Peter's frustrated,

I guess I suppose he has a right to be frustrated, right? Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I don't know if anyone's in a position to tell him to get over it or that he can't be frustrated. I mean, at the same time. But we all wanted to know. We can talk about how it might have been morally wrong

for Hannah to share, but also thank you Hannah. Also, can we get an update? Is Hannah Brown still not following her potential assistant? That's the real story I care about. Let me do a deep dive. Yeah.

I think that whole thing is like, she's obviously questioning this girl's intentions, right? I mean, I would be. Do you think she is banking on the fact that there will be no wedding? You know, a poster child of being engaged doesn't mean you're going to get married. So is she banking on that?

And if they do follow through, will, will like, will she get the follow on the wedding day? I'm sure if it becomes a real thing, she's gonna,

you know, give her a chance. They're engaged. Wait, what? What are they? They're engaged. They're engaged. They're not dating.

They're engaged. But do they have a date set for the wedding? I don't know. Because I feel like there's a difference, especially. Of course.

I will say, Haley. They're engaged. She got done a wedding. He's younger than her, right? I believe't know. Because I feel like there's a difference, especially. Of course. I will say. Wait, what? Haley. They're engaged. She got done on one knee. He's younger than her, right? I believe so, yeah. Okay. I could not be more invested in any other bat shirt story. I don't want to judge, but like, I think it's the type of situation where like, she... I don't know. I'm 100% team

Hannah Brown on this one. I know. I just think like, if she's the type of person that is going to go to news outlets and say like, this is the person I was dating and he told me this and da-da-da-da-da. So what does that say about her? It's a little thirsty and then now. Yeah. It's not a coincidence that she is with Hannah Brown's brother.

Yeah. It's just not. It's just not a coincidence. And I think that's what Hannah Brown, my guess is that's what Hannah Brown is feeling. Yeah. And I'm team Hannah Brown on this one. Same, same, same. They do not follow each other.

It's not even a mutual situation. But Haley is now verified and has over 50,000 followers. Oh, Hannah Brown hates that. She's now verified. The plot thickens. It kind of has like a gross, kind of stinky stench to it. She just posted that it was her 30th birthday, and she does have a photo with the Brown family celebrating.

Hannah is not there, but it's definitely Hannah's parents just hanging out. I really feel for Hannah. I really do. Yeah, it's not fun. I really feel for Hannah. I really do. Yeah, it's not fun. Also, you just don't want to be, again,

reminded of this ex that you like. Not only that, but I think there's some shit. Like, I think it's not a coincidence. It's just not. No, it's not. It's not. And I got to assume that's what Hannah. Yeah. Do you blame more the brother or her?

Her, for sure. I feel like the brother is, I think he's had some tough luck in the past. I've, you know, like, I don't know, but I think, and I even know very little other than I think he's had some, you know, tough times or, and I think maybe, I don't know. Hannah has talked about that before

of going through tough times with her family. And I don't know what kind of program or facility he was going to, but she's talked about that before. And that's kind of when she was leaning on Tyler, they've talked about that. So I know, yeah.

I mean, Hannah's brother is Hannah's brother. You know, it's family. That's her brother. So no matter what, it's her brother. This person,

some outsider who keeps infiltrating herself in Hannah's life. Yeah. Couldn't you argue it's the brother who lets her? Of course. I think it's like the whole like cheating you argue it's the brother who lets her? Of course. I think it's the whole cheating thing where it's like, who did you owe it to? And at the end of the day, I think it's the brother is the one who has the familial relationship.

Yeah, but her brother's, for example, all my siblings. It's a completely different situation. But every time i met someone new especially like when i was in the heat of it when i was the bachelor there's you're meeting a stranger who comes to your house and when i come when i go home to visit family it's a time to like be myself and catch up and share stories and just not look over your shoulder. You know what I'm saying? And so when my siblings would meet, bring people home, and no fault of theirs, you're a little bit more guarded. You're a little bit more safe.

I don't know these fucking people. You just are. They're infiltrating your home. But my siblings have a right to find love and be themselves. You know what I'm saying? It's us it and and so this person who has a track record of infiltrating herself into bachelor nation and maybe it's this dumb luck maybe she's totally innocent and maybe maybe we uh but i'm just saying if i'm hannah i get it i get it do too. Yeah. And I guess it's like, it's pretty inconvenient.

So the fact that they're together means they must have a very strong relationship. Because if it were just so-so, like, why would you go through all the BS? And the fact that this girl did while going through this thing with Jed, she sought a national platform. She sought attention. She wanted her story to be told. It was like, I don't agree that she's bad,

but I'm like, at the end of the day, it's like the brother's the one who like, has the obligation to Hannah and the loyalty. She, no,

no, I don't, no. He doesn't have a, I don't think my, my siblings owe me anything. You know, like,

it's like, they owe themselves a chance to find happiness and i believe that her brother loves her that cares about her he's found his person you know what i'm saying like yeah and and so like if he thinks that he is truly in love with this person why should he like not consider this person you know what it possible that this girl isn't innocent of this thing we're suggesting she might be guilty of. And of course he's going to believe her, Hannah's brother. You want to believe in the person.

So I think it would be insane for Hannah to ask her brother to like break up with this person. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't doubt that they love, they must love each other and have a relationship, obviously. But I do think it's opportunistic. Yeah. I think maybe the way that it started or the way that she kind of saw it in was like, hey, here I am. I can hang on to this.

And these 15 minutes are looking better if they're a little bit bigger. Because if you're Hannah, you're thinking, here's this person who has leveraged my personal life into their own blue check mark. And next time I go home for Christmas and something happens or we don't get along, and maybe in-laws can bicker and fight.

And how do I know she's not going to take that to us weekly you know what I'm saying like oh you know just saying you know so and no I don't fault her brother at all like not one bit I don't think it's his responsibility to like look out for Hannah Brown's like to not date like I don't think it's their brother friends like yeah but like if he loves her he loves her I'm just I don't think it's her brother's responsibility to worry about like Hannah Brown's brand but I empathize with Hannah Brown on feeling like this is an invasion of my privacy no but I do think it's his responsibility to know a little better, like, in the start to say like, Sure, but he believes in her.

He loves her. And when love is, you know. Now, but when he first got approached. That's what I'm saying. Like, a little sense, no? Yeah. You get the DM from this girl. It's like it's so easy to just not respond to that DM.

Or whatever it is. Did she DM him? I mean, I'm assuming. I don't think the brother would DM her. I tried to research how they met.

No one quite knows. We're all assuming this is based off the fact that she could be sus. Yeah. And if she is sus, then I blame the sus person. Not the...

But you're not innocent. I think he's just a guy in love. But at the end of the day, it's like, who do you trust? Do you trust the sus person the day, it's like, who do you trust? Do you trust the soft person? Who has more to gain?

Or do you trust your family? I just blame, like, who has more to gain? Clearly her. Not Hannah's brother. Hannah Brown's brother is Hannah Brown's brother. He will always be Hannah Brown's brother. This girl is only anything because of Hannah Brown. But if it were my brother, I'd be like, you don't think it's a little weird?

Oh, I'm sure Hannah Brown has said something, has a right to say something, but if we're like assigning blame, I just don't think it's, she has everything to gain from what we suspect she might be trying to gain.

And Hannah Brown's brother has nothing to gain from it. Which is exactly like, why are you doing this? Because she's in love. Why would you do it in the start though? Yeah, that I can believe. He's exactly like, why are you doing this? Because he's in love. Why would you do it in the start, though? Yeah, that I can believe.

He's probably like, oh, this is, someone wants to. Anyways, captivating story. Can't wait to find out more. Are we ready for the episode? Let's get the episode. I think the big question of this episode, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is what do we think of Sarah?

She certainly had some sus moments. Oh, yeah. The crocodile tears? I kind of think she might have been thrown under the bus by the show, by the women, by Mara. I think she got set up to fail. Why? Because the only real accusation that seemed to have any validity to it,

at least that we saw, and we didn't actually see anything other than sus moments. We saw the accusation from Rachel, and I think we believe Rachel, right? Yeah, we do. There's a level of trust that we have with Rachel. She's never been involved in drama.

Or she's smart about involving herself in drama like she picks her battles but i think we trust rachel and this moment where she told clayton he was crying around sarah yeah which i also love how clayton got like weirdly like defensive i wasn't crying i wasn't i wasn't crying well that's not that's not true. That's not true. And if that's true and we trust Rachel, then that would be a weird thing for Sarah to say. And I would understand why Clayton would be upset about why I lie about something like that. But other than that, everything else seems to be like talking about

a feeling talking about uh well she was you know for me i i just think people in life often often confuse their own insecurities with their perception of other people's cockiness or confidence here's my question is, why haven't we seen these conversations that the women keep saying that they've had? That is an excellent point. It's something that I was going to say. Thank you for bringing it up because as we all know on this show,

if it's said and it's good, they air it. They air that. And they're not airing any of this we don't see one conversation where she's like I feel so confident with Clayton and Clayton cried

and me and Clayton were crying together and it's all do they not get like off camera time like before bed sure but like could it be like

that strikes me as like a toothbrush conversation like you know you're doing your serum it's possible it's possible but Rachel said that

she and Teddy were sitting in her room and she came in and they've filmed that before of the girls sitting on the bed and talking so I don't know why there is a difference

between like your girl chats which are staged right and that's all they do like it's so it's like

is it staged sure but that's all day long right the rule general is if you're awake you have a mic on right So it's like, is it staged? Sure, but that's all day long, right? The rule, general rule is, if you're awake, you have a mic on. Right. Like, you have to get permission to take your mic off.

And if you're not going to bed, your mic's on. So yes, literally the only time would be like brushing your teeth. And I guess that's possible. be like brushing your teeth and I guess that's possible but that would mean that all of these accusations that Sarah is doing is happening in these like little windows of moments

where Sarah's like I'm off my by the way you know like trying to like assassinate these women's confidence trying to get them all like is that because like that's the accusation right that sarah is somehow machiavellian style like finding these little moments off mike and and trying to can brainwash all these women into thinking they have no shot so that they all

quit and sarah will be the only one left. If I'm understanding the general accusation. I don't feel like that was the general accusation. Okay. No, I don't feel like Rachel was like, she's making us feel this way. I think it was like, she's telling us that you're having these conversations and that you're very close.

And yes, it made me feel some type of way, which is totally okay to make, to feel a little insecure at times in your journey. I don't think it was like her, I don't think Rachel was like, she's doing this to all the women in the way that Mara was, you know? Yeah, well, I mean, here's I think what I hated, what I didn't like about this episode, because I don't know about Sarah, but I feel confident knowing Mara.

And I love what Andrew said last week. A real villain. For all the conversations we had about Shanae this season, I know people have disagreed with me, and I think my only point is, let's just chill out because what I'm confident in saying is

that if I ran into Shanae in the street, I would see a different person. Now, she might still be toxic. She might be a mess. I don't know. But this over-the-top theatrics, it seems forced and seeking out airtime. Or Mara is, I'm pretty confident this is who Mara is. I feel like I've heard people who know her and they're like, that tracks. And not a, just someone who, not a bad person, just someone who

is in her head a little too much about her love story and projects these insecurities onto everyone else. And while simultaneously trying to present herself is unbothered and above it all and righteous. And she's not. She's a human. She has, that's what I love about Love is Blind too. There's no heroes and villains. There's just a bunch of people with warts. And they show people's good and bad sides.

You see everyone's warts on that show and then like the bachelor they don't do that and it's a different show different you know it's about the journey and and Mara wants to act like she has no warts it's just not her time it's just you know and it's so and even what she said about like something that that really stuck out with me she was like I'm doing all the things. I'm giving all the time. Where's my time? What do I need to do?

What else do I need to do? Because I'm doing everything that he's asking me to do. And I'm like, girl, you should know that you're not supposed to be giving, giving, giving in a relationship if you're not getting anything back. You know, you're talking about how these girls are so young, they don't know, they don't know, but you're the voice of reason and you're saying like, I'm giving, I'm doing, and I'm not getting anything. Then leave.

Yeah, she's basically turning herself into a prize to be won and she's wondering why she hasn't been chosen. Because you have to choose someone who chooses you back. And she's just like, oh, he's not choosing me? I should or have to do more. And then when they don't choose me, it immediately is. How about the other women? Yeah.

And that's why. And what I hate about it is whatever we think of Sarah, because we recorded this a little bit early, prediction. Right now, if you're listening to this on a Tuesday, go to Mara's Instagram. And I bet she is posting some I told you so content.

You know what I'm saying? Self-righteous Mara is out there on Instagram either in your face or passive-aggressive I've told you so content. And that annoys me. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that grinds your gears it's just like

because like everything that mara did like whether sarah's right or wrong in that one-on-one fight like mara was 100 in my eyes in the wrong 100% in the wrong just like she makes shit up she said you're getting sloppy go back to your cute quiet confidence so condescendingly

oh my god and then she called her ignorant ignorant about what and then she was like you know all the girls are saying this

and then she's like well my friends they're my friends and then no no no we're not talking about the girls I fucking hate it when people bring other people into their argument and then deny that they did oh my god i fucking hate that oh my god but then i don't know with the whole sarah thing i disagree there is like this she has this doe-eyed wide-eyed innocence look

that that's what comes off when you first see her. She definitely gives off a I'm not sure I can trust you look. She's a smart little cookie. 100%. She knows what she's doing. I mean, she even had a one-liner with Mara. What does it say? Go back to the Jersey Turnpike with some cheap wine.

Never forget that Sarah called Mara, Mara gap tooth. It was in unprovoked. No, no, not unprovoked. It was a roast. Yeah.

That's different. It is different. Have you ever watched her? You are, you are, I have seen a roast. I just think it's like, that to me is like a really crazy choice to comment on.

It's a cheap. Sure. But I'm just, just saying it not on to call it unprovoked would be inaccurate and disingenuous you've seen roasts and they're much harsher especially like professional roasts yeah they're they're there's some real like holy shit i can't believe they said that and i'm not saying it's okay and i'm not saying like mara shouldn't but it wasn't unprovoked just by definition but also the crying it's okay and i'm not saying like amara shouldn't but it wasn't unprovoked just by definition but also the crying it's like oh she definitely sarah definitely like you can tell

do you believe that no no even last episode there was something off about it i was watching this episode and you know the moment in which she was quote-unquote crying i did not see any tears no do you believe anyone who has the most realistic fake cries because i do think there's in which she was quote unquote crying, I did not see any tears. No. Do you believe anyone? Who has the most realistic fake cries? Because I do think there's a lot of fake crying this season. And by fake crying, I mean, yeah, they're tired and they're emotional,

but like they seem to like get asked a question by Clayton and then you kind of see this look in their face where it's like, it's time, it's time. And they kind of like almost changed their position and like take a breath Clayton does it too and so like and I I I think I don't entirely believe Rachel's tears when did she cry less when when she was when she was speaking her truth about sarah oh man i guess here's the thing i see what you're all seeing with sarah i really do but the problem i have is with the argument from the women in mera and they are talking about a feeling that she's making them feel and that is what did you uh tell me your therapist said amanda

oh shout out to dana she said people don't make you feel anything they invite you to feel stuff which i think is a really empowering way of looking at it so it's very relatable to this episode and again unless we know that sarah is in a machiavellian way deliberately trying to mind fuck these women. But if Sarah is getting a second one-on-one and feeling good about it, and when she came in and addressed the group, Sarah was under attack. And then I do know- Under attack? If you go- Sir.

If you go. Sir. If you go. Maybe this is PTSD from Andy season, but I got a second one-on-one. And it's always like second one-on-one before someone else gets there first. And then you go on a date. You're all excited. You're having the time of your life. And then the bachelorette, because that's how it works. Because if there's drama, the job of the bachelor is to bring up the drama.

It's just how it works. You don't know the time. And so you're just like, hey, by the bachelor is to like bring up the drama. Like it's just how it works, right? You don't know that at the time. And so you're just like, hey, by the way, you know, we're enjoying this really romantic date. Everyone's saying this about you. Or I've heard this. I heard this rumor about you. And it's out of left fucking field. And you're just like, what the fuck?

I didn't say that. What are you talking about? I remember Andy accusing me of saying, people are saying that you think you're the one. I've literally never said that. And I was just like, well, I think, I mean, I believe in our connection. And I remember what I said to her. I said, do I have a hard time believing that you have the same connection with someone else as you have for me? Yeah. But if I didn't think that- I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be. Talk about right reasons. If if you don't at this stage in the game believe that you

are the one then you shouldn't be talking about falling in love or getting engaged then you're just playing the bachelor game but there's a difference between knowing you are the one and talking totally but when you go on a date and in someone that you are trying to connect with in your limited time tells you this rumor how and they don't tell you who they just say that's what I heard about you and the whole date becomes an accusation it feels like you're being attacked I'm like trust me it does this is why you feel for Sarah I mean do I empathize for sure of course and I think I you this is not like, you guys can't get to that place for. But he wasn't accusing, like,

my thing is, when she comes in, the first time, at the top of the episode, and she's like, you know, someone is saying that I'm not here for the right reasons, or I'm too young,

right? The way she has her little smile. Yeah, no, she's, I feel that. And she is waving her vows basking in it and she's like

and just so you know we're stronger for it I see all that I do and I'm not I'm not I don't I have to

I'm sure because you know how it is people will listen some people listen to the show that can't no you gotta be devil's advocate I don't have to

I'm just it's how I real I don't play devil's advocate for the sake of it it's how I really feel. And I'm on the fence with Sarah. I'm not like black and white. I'm just saying I don't like how there's not a lot of evidence

to back up these claims other than what we see, which is, yes, we see some not flatting characteristics. We see that. Does that define people? Can we just break broad judgments about their character or their intentions because have you ever acted immature when someone's come after you of course I'm just saying these are we're talking about human reactions here but she like she reminds me of a Patriots fan and like I'm a Patriots fan like that's a bad thing like the way she's like you

try to like like I just think the way that she has, I think it's totally fine to be confident. I think it's totally fine to believe that you are here and a front runner and going to go all the way. Because as you were saying, that's a testament to the strength of your love. It's to me, it's the way she needs to position herself above the other women. It's not just like I have an amazing connection with Clayton. It's the way that she takes so much pride and solace in sort of the competitive nature of it and relegating them below her. What would you do if you believed in a relationship that you had and you felt connected to it and you felt like you might get engaged and then your peers were belittling that? Would it might bring out some petty just, I'm not saying she's right.

And maybe this, maybe, and she looked bad. She did. But why is it like, I feel like I struggle sometimes. It's like, even sometimes you guys,

it's like, it's either she fucking sucks or she's a queen. No, I agree with you there. There is an in between. She, we did not see these horrible moments of like her belittling the women which is again why i said like well we never saw these conversations right so we do have to give her the

benefit of the doubt that she wasn't going around telling everybody like i have such a great relationship with clayton like we really didn't see that but yes the moments that she did talk about her relationship were a little cringy but that still doesn't mean that she deserves it's a kind of thing of like shanae leaves we need a villain we saw 20 what we what i saw is probably just someone who maybe her youthfulness came out and maybe it's not maybe it was age maybe she has a petty side maybe she has a mean side sarah does not look like a perfect person she definitely looks sus i thought she was fake crying yes i'm just saying like i don't i don't know if the the house clearly turned on her as it happened what did we say all season as soon as shanae leaves yeah they're gonna turn

on someone and i i i feel like the women were like, I thought that was a really interesting conversation when Sarah was talking with Clayton and you had Rachel and Teddy and they were just kind of like, you could almost see them saying like, you know, I thought I liked her, but I don't know, maybe she does. You know, it's like they were trying

to almost convince themselves that she was not there for the right reasons it's almost like they didn't really know if she was or wasn't but they just kind of like you know what maybe she's not even gabby who i love and adore had a moment of like yeah i guess yeah she really went you know by the time they got to the therapy date they're all out there and they're fully saying things like people like her will get caught up in their lies and whatever. And then suddenly they had like a whole platform and like campaign. Yeah.

And let's talk about the therapy date. Oh, man. I'm not convinced that was a real doctor. No, no, there's no way. Well, I think, yeah, because I think the giveaway and I don't think, well, one, I don't think it's even, and we're in Vienna. By the way, we're back traveling.

I'm so envious of the places they're going. Beautiful, right? Just give a moment to, we're not in New Mexico anymore. We love New Mexico. It's not New Mexico, New Mexico people.

Beautiful landscape. No, but New Mexico after six weeks. We're not stuck in that hotel. Yes. Beautiful, beautiful landscape but new mexico after six weeks we're not stuck in that hotel yes beautiful beautiful landscape my understanding i i tried to uh uh i think one of the first episodes we had i had a therapist on and i think it'd be fun to like give me like a therapy session on the podcast it's like episode five we ever done oh wow and they're like yeah i can't i can't do that

like hippo law is like it's against my my code of being a therapist or a doctor. So my understanding to like actually give a therapy session that would, and again, those rules might be different in Vienna than they are in the States. I don't know if it's a worldwide rule or it's like country by country. Well, they were careful about the language because it was like, it wasn't psychiatry it was like psychoanalysis psychoanalysis they definitely said like couples did they say couples counseling or couples i don't know i'm just certain an actual doctor or therapist uh wouldn't at the end of a

day go no that's my i'm just gonna drop this bomb. Yeah, no, no, no. One person. Why wouldn't you tell Clayton if that's how you feel? Four beautiful girls. And I'm going to let you figure it out. Good luck. Insane move. Insane. I also really love that he sent home in the middle of therapy Genevieve

before he got done with the… Of course. It's like, by the way, I take this seriously. Genevieve's he got done with the of course by the way I take this seriously Genevieve's gone who's next? I have down too like that whole situation felt very icky the Genevieve

therapy session that was not okay it was like let's force you into a therapy session that you're not comfortable in at all talking about feelings that you're telling me right now you're not comfortable talking about i don't know i felt very like we were looking at something we weren't supposed to see yeah right because i know i also like it doesn't make sense to me because it wasn't as if genevieve was this like demure quiet like you didn't hear from her all season. She was low-key involved in the Sinead drama.

She was a little firecracker. She spoke up. We saw the balloon deflate. And then she gets into this couples therapy and couldn't find a word. It was really, really hard to watch. And she said she's never done any kind of therapy before. So yeah, I didn't love that because, and I get where Clayton's coming from and it's not Clayton's fault,

but like, it gave this like, oh, you, I guess you gotta go. Like we're not, and that's not why he sent Genevieve home,

right? Like, come on. No. We weren't even, like we, I actually like, I was on the fence.

Is it going to be Genevieve versus Mara? Like. What did you think of when Genevieve said, I didn't want to be lucky to end up with him? I didn't want to be lucky to end up with him? I didn't want to be lucky.

She said that? In the car, she said, it's nothing against Clayton, but I didn't want to be lucky to end up with him. I didn't want to be lucky. Maybe she got tired of the competitive aspect of it all? I think after the Sinead thing, she really shut down. Yeah, I think she got tired of competing, honestly. It sounds like.

Yeah, I think it's like a, I want my partner to choose me type thing. Yeah, I think she got tired of competing, honestly. Yeah. It sounds like. Yeah, I think it's like a, I want my partner to choose me type thing. Yeah. And I thought she was going to go really far when I saw her in the first couple episodes. Me too. Well, unlike Mera, who's just like, every time someone else is getting a one-on-one, she's like, well, what about me? I should, I mean,

Genevieve seems to be the exact opposite. It's like everything we didn't like about Mera, I think we like about Genevieve is that he doesn't like me. Okay. I don't want to pretend to do couples therapy with a guy. If I'm Genevieve, why am I not fucking telling you

my fucking secrets? You haven't earned my trust. Yeah. I spent no time with you. You put me on a fucking two-on-one with Sinead. You haven't said two words to me. No. You know, we haven't seen it.

I'm sure they have talked. But like, yeah, she knows. Like, Genevieve, I bet certain she was going home. In a way that the other therapy sessions felt a little performative. Yeah. You know, a little like, okay, I'm going to share. And I'm going to show Clayton and this woman how I can share. Can we give some love for Eliza?

Oh my goodness. Where is she? She's stunning. And I hope to see her on the beach. She's stunning and she never got it. If she'd gotten a chance, I think she would have been. And she showed, she wasn't like like you know often times you can be like hey she didn't share much

she didn't talk much yeah we don't know much about her but Eliza scrapbook Eliza did it scrapbook she like when she got air time

she showed like personality and I hope I very much hope to see her in paradise my favorite thing was she did not make a big deal

that she wasn't on that group date she instead chose to rise above it and make the most out of that cocktail hour. She's the best. Stunning. And it was in this episode we got an ITM of her.

And I was like, oh my God, have we ever seen her give an ITM before? We've seen little fleeting moments maybe before a rose ceremony. But we haven't gotten her commentary and it was awesome. I hope to see her on the beach.

For sure. Anyways, back online. And say so i think yeah she just chose to accept where how clayton felt about her and and didn't put up a fight teddy like the performative like i think back on criticizing sarah like her intro to therapy was weird yeah you. You know, like that, that was, I think by definition, performative. Like you don't go in there and be like, I love therapy and I am so excited

for you to like, break me down. Like I am, this is amazing. That's, I mean, it was weird. I do love therapy,

you know? No, same. Yeah. But it just felt a little put on. Yeah. Well, that goes into the whole performance situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Teddy and Clayton, do you… I don't believe a word they said to each other. Oh, yeah. That was… And love Teddy. Teddy's great. We're team Teddy.

But I just… I think they just lost that love and feeling. Yeah, I really like you. I really like you too. It's like, okay. feeling. Yeah, I really like you. No, I really like you too. It's like, okay. Okay. Yeah, I didn't buy a word either of them said to each other. Also, what a fizzle.

Like, Teddy was such a fizzle. Yeah. That's a second Bachelor. That was the first impression rose, right? Second fizzle. Yeah. Not quite the Abigail fizzle. Abigail level, yeah.

Because Teddy at least got a one-on-one. It yeah. Because Teddy at least got a one-on-one. It was close. Teddy at least got a one-on-one. But if it weren't for that one-on-one… But even the one-on-one was kind of like, meh. Yeah. You know? Like where's that chemistry?

There was such that spark. And I think it goes to show that Clayton is just like so invested in Rachel and Susie, in my opinion, that he's like not even seeing. Now you're starting to tell who is frontrunner. We're really going out of order. It's fine. I know. Should we get to the shopping date?

Yeah, wow. Oh, my gosh. We all know the winners get the shopping spree. Bachelor Nation loves the Cinderella story. It's insane. I was like, she's the next Bachelorette. Well, if she's not the next Bachelorette, it's because she's with Clayton. It has to be.

I mean, this date to me was all about presenting their next bachelorette. Literally. That's what I was thinking the whole time. It reminded me when Rachel did it with Matt. You guys remember that? Yeah. How she was like… Very similar energy.

I don't know. She was over $30. And then everyone came out with all these pictures of her owning Doc Martens and all this stuff. I don't. I mean, I remember the Rachel and Matt date, but not as vividly, obviously, as just watching this. But I don't remember the. There were some like hero shots. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like with. I mean, and she looks stunning in that like like old like rolls royce and the red dress and it was just such like they really it was she looked i mean they had a light on her and the red she was well lit i mean that was like such a bouncer this is our next bat charrette moment and the only way she's not the bat charrette is because she's with clayton yeah that was like i don't know they just love this Rex or Rich's moment of the story. It's a fairy tale. It's hard.

It's very hard to not love Susie. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing… And especially after the… I would say this date for me… Do you want to give it a shot? Yes, I do. I just don't like…

I don't want to be mean but like… You know physically obviously there's like these comparisons to Hannah Brown. But like Hannah Brown really had that fire and that spunk and that this and that. In the way that for me Gabby does it. You know? I think Suzy has it more than they're showing it. Also we saw a little bit of Hannah Brown that season. And you might be right but… That is true i didn't like hannah brown in that season actually

and i i think it's not fair to suzy to completely compare to hannah brown i see the similarity but they look different oh yeah i think you had that there was a group date where suzy was like in that wrestling she's showing some fire to her. She might not be Hannah Brown. What did Hannah Brown refer to her? The Beast. The Beast. She might not be The Beast, but I don't think she… I think if they cast Suzy as the best rat

and they put her in a pressure cooker situation where it was fight or flight… She would give you good TV. I think she would fight. I think she'd be like a more of like a JoJo Ben Higgins energy lead of very, very... She gives me Emily Maynard.

I think she would... I think it would be a JoJo Hannah Brown mix. I think there's a little more fight in Suzy than JoJo. Really? Interesting. I disagree. I love JoJo? Interesting. I disagree. I love JoJo's season.

I disagree. I think she is your kind of like how Clayton was the answer for Bachelor Nation to like what is our quintessential

Bachelor that we've always had? That's Susie for them. Well, maybe we'll find out. We'll find out. But you're right. We haven't seen enough of her.

Yeah. That's a really you know we haven't seen her in a pressure cooker's a really you know we haven't seen her in a pressure cooker situation yeah we just haven't can't wait for that intimacy

I think when you get someone in an athletic environment and they show some fight there's some fight underneath there I'm just saying yeah

and she showed that I would love if they would show more like I would love to hear like what Susie's I think what it is is I don't really know Susie's sense of humor

and I think it's hard for me to feel like I know someone or like root for someone until I like have a sense of like what makes them laugh but keep in mind like why we saw like you forget on uh when Hannah Brown with Colton Clayton Colton Colton she wasn't she wasn't uh one of Colton's favorites right she wasn't top four no she was stuck in this pageant drama. This pageant narrative they'd set up. Right? So Hannah Brown was put in a pressure-cooking situation, not as much as it is being the bachelorette, but more than Susie has been.

Susie's been coasting. I would also say, for the Hannah Colton thing, we saw the fire and the beast when she was the bachelorette. But beyond even the pageant scandal, when she was on Colton season, they did their one-on-one that awkward toast oh it was so weird she couldn't even find the words to like toast him you know what i mean yeah yeah we didn't love her for that no i'm i'm saying we didn't see any fire in that moment that was a girl being like i don't even know what to say exactly yeah and then she went on to be the bachelorette who was so outspoken

so fiery yeah i'm just saying you never know you put her you burn the bachelorette who was so outspoken so fiery so I'm just saying you never know you put her you burn the bachelorette and you start throwing fucking grenades and landmines everywhere yeah I believe she could have it I just feel like

I haven't quite seen it yet yeah and I think for me especially too it's like a thing of like yes she looks the part yes she could have those things but when I see someone like Gabby

who already gives me everything I want in a bachelorette who gives me like Caitlin Bristow energy, like that's what I… Yes. I think that's the good comp is the Caitlin Bristow. Yeah. She gives me like… She will probably lose it if she's put in a pressure situation. But she's genuine to me, at least. She's funny. She's charming. She's gorgeous. She's older for bachelor standards. How old is she. She's funny. She's charming. She's gorgeous. She's older for bachelor standards. How old is she?

She's 30. 30. ICU nurse. She's an ICU nurse? I think it's Susie was 100% their bachelorette. And if Clayton is with Susie, Gabby's her bachelorette. Yeah, I agree. So you think Rachel, not at all?

No. She also reminds me of Jennifer Coolidge I think Rachel Clippy you know in a weird way no I also feel like that that Gabby has like a tiny bit of Jennifer

like in that she has a voice making yeah Jennifer Coolidge why do I not oh my god she's I'm taking the dump

dumbass from Legally Blonde also from White Lotus Cinderella story like touch that energy like a young

Jennifer yes young you know like she said at the beginning she's like

I hope she doesn't come back in an exorcist voice and I love that no yeah kind of

like also Anna Faris and House Bunny yeah it would be very two different seasons and I think

they both could be great seasons and I think their cops are two of the more popular. You know, like between JoJo, Hannah Brown, and Caitlyn,

those are arguably three of your… Yeah, for sure. Those are the ones on the podium. Those are the Mount Rushmore, for sure. Yeah. The President's Day. Well, Rachel Lindsay. We've got to throw Rachel Lindsay up on Mount Rushmore.

I didn't say that's the only one. I'm just saying. Yes, we love Rachel. I'm designing it in my head. And maybe there's more than four. I'm just saying. Yes, we love Rachel. I'm designing it in my head. And maybe there's more than four. I'm just saying. Those are some of the… The all-time greats.

Some of the all-times. I think Rachel could be the Bachelorette if Susie or Gabby weren't… Gabby's story, too, with her mom, that's a big deal. I mean, it's sad. But if we're talking TV and Bachelorette, they love that. Of course. I mean, also like hometowns.

I mean, we don't have the luxury of seeing the teaser. Right, right, right. And I wonder if Gabby's mom will be at the hometown. Question. Do we know Susie's story? No, it's not. I think her parents are still together.

I mean, she was talking about her parents sending her off and her dad saying, just be yourself. They'll fall in love with you. Right, right, right, right. But I mean, like,

there's no, I mean, in terms of like a bachelorette, you know. I'll tell you what. Again, if Susie's not with Clayton, we just haven't seen her story. Right.

Because it's going to be the kind of the, again, I don't know. I think that makes you want to. Whatever the, because again, we know this ends messy. her story it's going to be the kind of the I think that makes you want to we know this ends messy we know Susie's one of Clayton's favorites and we know Clayton has slept with multiple women so

we just don't know Susie's story as it relates to her maybe being the next bachelorette it hasn't been told yet she doesn't necessarily need to have a tragic story. Her tragic story might happen right before our eyes, which will catapult her.

Which could, you could say the same about Rachel. I think it has to do with she could be, she would probably be great. I think it's cool that she's a pilot. They love a pilot. They've had two pilots. I think it would so be cool to have a woman pilot Susie's not a pilot no Rachel is a pilot

oh oh oh I think that would be cool but I just think they have other stories that are they're more they would be more interested in

yeah so are we going to say predictions or well we have to at least talk about I was oh wait Serene's

I gotta say I keep expecting Serene to go home not because I don't think she's flawless and like too good for like the show like I'm just kind of like

I'm just like there's no I don't see it and I and nothing at Clayton I've become team Clayton I don't

I think he's getting a bad beat but it's like Serene yeah yeah really like a league of her own you're still here okay yeah cool It's like, Serene. Yeah. Really? Like a league of her own. You're still here?

Okay. Yeah. Cool. And I kind of suspected that Clayton would feel that and then focus on other connections. Yeah, that's what I thought too. You know what I'm saying? Or like Teddy. There seemed to be more with Teddy.

Yes. You know, I just didn't really see it. But props to Serena. But you know what though? Speaking of Ari and what's her name? Lauren? Lauren, thank you. I remember watching that season and never for a minute thinking

it was Lauren because she was so quiet and she was so like the silent killer of that show. That's a good point. You know, whereas maybe we're not really seeing it, but I mean, I still think that he has other front runners,

but. I never would have guessed, and I never have yet, that Serene would be top three or one of the women that Clayton hooks up with, but it definitely

is a possibility. I mean, it's easily possible that Gabby made it to hometowns because I, have we really seen a connection between Gabby made it to hometown. Because I have we really seen a connection between Gabby and Clayton? Yeah. You say that like you're trying to

convince yourself. You sound like one of those girls trying to convince herself that Sarah is like a terrible person. I think they're like, I don't know. We're friends. We're friends. It's friend energy between those two. Yeah, they have a very warm, lived-in, comfortable dynamic that's not necessarily love. I'm not seeing like,

I love you, let's have sex in the fantasy suite because I can't decide who I'm going to end up with. Although I think they could have a fun game night or something in there. I have a question.

I feel like Gabby might, I think we got to see Gabby's hometown whether her mom makes an appearance or not to talk about the family dynamic, to endear us even more right before they announce her as an act specter. If Clayton is with Susie, they're always hedging their bets. As they're filming this season, they don't know how this shit's going to end. So they saw bat-shot energy in Gabby, Rachel, Susie,

and let's get these. But Gabby's is a compelling story. So, get her to hometowns, send her home after hometowns. But I just, that would make, that to me I'm going to, that's my prediction, but like I just I just, that means Clayton, that means Serene

might go to the fantasy with Clayton. I just never saw that. Yeah. But it doesn't mean he sleeps with her. Doesn't mean he sleeps with her. So, that would make sense, I guess, in a way. Because he's clearly more invested with the other two. But I have a question. This is more of a producer question for you. But the whole Firefly thing, I thought it was so sweet and so endearing.

It was great. But do you think that was Clayton's idea? Art department. I don't know for sure. When I wrote that fairy tale and drew the pictures for andy that was my idea i did it i spent the whole like some people are creative some people are not however for the people who are not the bachelor producers are there to make a tv show okay and help their leads look good and help contestants come up with ideas because like

sometimes people get nervous and they don't know what to do or maybe they're not inherently romantic or thoughtful or creative so they're just like i don't know i'm just going to talk about like like my favorite football team well you can't talk about your favorite football team on the bachelor you gotta like do something and so they might you know they prompt you they're their friends who are like hey man they're their friends who help you like go buy a nice birthday gift for the sister who's helping you, you know, their brother get a birthday gift for their friend. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so it's like from, like, of course Clayton wanted to do that for Serene

and he's also too busy doing anything else, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's entirely possible Clayton could have been like, I'd like to do something nice for Serene. Can you guys help me? And they helped him for sure. But definitely Clayton was not been like, I'd like to do something nice for Serene. Can you guys help me? And they helped him, for sure. But definitely, Clayton was not in like the… No, I know he wasn't making it, but I wonder if he was the one with the fire flag.

It is 100% possible he had the idea. Lots of times, leads have the idea, but sometimes those ideas are… I know they're not executed by him. But it's like the friend saying, you know, it could be something as simple, I'd like to do something nice for her. How about this? You know, kind of thing.

And then there's other people who are, I mean, I was, you know, I was like, can I get Andy Roses? Like, I got a nice day. Can I get her flowers? And to this day, I'm the only person who's ever had flowers sent to someone.

But I was the bad guy. So we got our final four. Look at him now. Yeah. So it depends. It depends on the love language of the contestants.

Final four. So I get my prediction. Gabby goes home next. Serene, Rachel, and Susie are your final three. Just something that tells me Susie is catching up to Rachel. I want to say one thing before we get predictions. It reminded me of something. The reason why Clayton sent Sarah home, in my mind,

and the reason why, because I don't believe you. I mean, he was kind of like cold and pretty. When he was like, you're trying to make yourself cry right now. That was the first time I saw Clayton like really. I kind of loved that from him. I loved it. I literally wrote down, fuck yeah, Clayton called that shit out. But you know where I think that motivation came from?

Do you know why I think he chose not to believe Sarah? To defend Rachel. Rachel. Because once Rachel was like, I might go home, he was like, fuck this shit. Yeah, he's like, that's my wife.

Yeah. But Sarah gave me the energy of a girl that he would have wanted to bring to the fantasy. Yes, that's what I'm saying. I think Clayton had every intention of bringing Sarah to the final three and Rachel was like,

yeah, I don't know. If she stays, I might leave. And Clayton was like, enough said, babe. And he walked and he was done. That was it. Yeah, because their physical chemistry was... Yeah.

They were like eating each other up. That would have been. But other than, the reason I remember that was because other than Rachel's one-on-one, that first one-on-one where it was like, oh, Rachel wins. It's like, okay. Like we haven't, you know, granted there's still a lot

and you can't see everything. That loyalty to Rachel was the most I've seen between those two since their first date. And in between that time, I've seen a lot of Clayton and Susie. I've seen a lot of Susie catching up. I think he picks Susie. You do? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, can we give a shout out to the Lady in Red? That's the guy who sings that song. That's my mom's favorite song, one of. And I know every word of that song because I remember as a kid my mom would play it just like making dinner

and Natalie and I were watching and I was like singing the beautiful it was great I thought it was really cool they don't

like he's a legend it's a legendary it's a beautiful song she came out it was a nice moment it was a very like usually you have like an obscure kind of up and coming artist yeah yeah yeah no it was a nice moment it was a very like usually you have like an obscure kind of

up-and-coming artist yeah yeah yeah uh no it's a classic i thought that was pretty cool it's a classic i thought it was the end did you guys catch the end it was like i love you i think that's actually like yeah it was a little it played a little weird on the show yeah it played a little weird on uh on there um but uh, it was a nice moment. But all right. So having discussed why Clayton sent Sarah home, you think, so you're saying Susie.

I think he picked Susie because in my mind, from what I've seen, who he is most compatible with is Rachel. So because he's the guy to make the wrong choice. So because he is the bachelor,

he's going to pick Susie. It's possible. And also, we just know it's messy. He could be single. Yeah. You could argue he's getting an edit

like a single guy. I just, I haven't seen really substantial conversations between Susie and Clayton where it's just like this puppy dog love that I see between them.

The way he lit up when she did the surprise. Oh my God. Like he's so into her. And I'm not saying he's obviously super into Rachel, but I think that Rachel and, or yeah, Rachel and him have something that's a lot more substantial and maybe rooted in like similarities

and her giving him so much reassurance from the get-go and Susie might be more of like the spicy kind of like risk for him. Yeah. Well, I mean, you saw her in that red dress. Yeah, yeah.

That was, you know, I always get asked, it's just like, oh, it must be easy to fall in love in Bachelor World. And I'm always like, honestly, like the helicopters and the bungee jump,

it's all very inconvenient to be honest like how so because it's there's a lot of production that goes on those dates so like it's

what you see is not as romantic as it is while doing it it's a lot of stop and go yes right but there are

occasional moments where I think it really kind of does like intoxicate you and i think the suzy date with clayton was an intoxicating date for clayton and suzy and i could see that kind of catapulting that relationship yeah it's gonna be a good ending because i think when was the last time we've been this kind of it could be a coin flip between two people

I mean I thought that way about Michelle's season before what the top three Joe went home yeah we had Joe I really thought it was

between me and Joe that's a good point no you're right you're right but before that I guess it's not as it's not as common I mean

you had Greg and Katie you and Sean yeah me and Sean Andy and Josh for sure. But I guess it's when we get to people where they're really torn on. Hannah? Brown? No.

No? Did I just want her to pick Tyler? No. No. No one ever believed Hannah and Tyler. We wanted her to pick Tyler, but it was Jed. No, it was really Jed. I just had too high of hopes.

I think we all picked Tyler. Amen. Amen. But I think we're really torn. We really see the connection. This is not about who our favorite is. It's who we think the lead's going to. And yeah, Michelle too.

But I guess what I'm saying it's great because it doesn't happen oh it's great TV I feel like I can't put my finger on why but for some reason I do just feel like Rachel looks like the winner

Susie looks like the bachelorette like something about the way they're filming it to me is just like really reading that way 100% but that could be the way they hoped

they yeah and then it ended up not going that way because despite all you know certainly producers produce, but at the end of the day, the lead does get to decide. There is no pick this person and get engaged to.

They do have a choice. And at the end of the day, they have to let things play out, which is why they hedge their bets. He still hasn't said he's in love, right? Not yet, no. But he did whisper to Rachel, I'm feeling the same way or something like that. Yeah.

As if whispers aren't picked up. I'm like, it's so cute. He's so cute. Have you come around on Clayton? I have a little bit. I'm still tough on him. I liked him this episode the most. Oh no, sorry. Last episode. I'm still tough on him I liked him this episode the most oh no sorry last episode

when he lit up with Susie I was like I get it he's really into it he's really being honest

about it but I there's a couple shots in the teasers where he's still like these tears of like I don't know

well we know how he feels about crying. How does he feel? She said that I cried? I did not cry. I was not crying. Not crying. No, I've come around on him. I think like the poor guy was plucked

and put into the situation. But still, I don't know if you guys agree. There are some, he's pretty expressionless in a lot of his conversations and sometimes when these women are sharing these stories

and these things he tends to do this thing of like oh yeah no I had the same situation when I like when there was a conversation

of like oh well I had a boyfriend in high school I think it was Serene no I think I think that was Susie in 101 I think Clayton was kind of like No, I think that was Susie in 101. Was it Susie?

And Clayton was kind of like... Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, I had a girlfriend too. It's like, well... And I get it. You also want to tell

these people your story, but... I mean, actually, I kind of disagree with that only because that last point you made is what do we know about Clayton and his love story

or heartbreak, anything? When he was like, oh, I had a girlfriend once, I was like, oh, shit, I didn't know. Isn't that kind of nuts how little we know about Clayton and his love story or heartbreak? Anything. When he was like, oh, I had a girlfriend once. I was like, oh, shit. I didn't know. Isn't that kind of nuts how little we know about Clayton and whether he's been cheated on or has heartbreak or whether just anyone who's like this fucked him up a little bit. He kind of looks like a guy who maybe swiped right on a couple dating apps and kind of

maybe had a fling for a summer. But here's my thing if he would have been heartbroken if he would have had these things we probably already would have heard it

probably yeah I mean with Michelle I hear you you know her story and her thing we heard it a lot

yeah well his Clayton's story was he likes puppies and kids like him that's not Clayton's fault no Mariel thank you so much for coming oh thank you please come back likes puppies and kids like him that's not Clayton's fault no Mariel

thank you so much for coming oh thank you for having me please come back you were like a rock star oh damn a professional really I'm just a really big fan

your knowledge is so deep also I slid into your DMs did you know that I did not yeah yeah yeah no I thought I had to like confess way back when

way back when not in a like after you stopped hating me yeah yeah yeah great yeah yeah yeah no I thought I had to like confess way back when way back when not in a like after you stopped hating me yeah yeah yeah great yeah yeah so you know just had to confess that

well you are excellent at this recapping thing thank you and please let my audience know where they can find you follow you watch you all the things you're doing

well everyone needs to go to Hulu and watch Promise Land I play Carmen there it's a really really really good show I say it's like things you're doing well everyone needs to go to hulu and watch promised land i play carmen there it's a really really really good show i say it's like very game of thrones on a vineyard kind of a deal um like kind of almost yellowstone yeah yellowstone dynasty yeah it's it's it's fun i'm

into that a lot of like twists and turns and yada yada but it's great and then on social you can find me on Instagram at Mariel Molino M-A-R-I-E-L Molino awesome well don't forget still come back when

I would love to when you've reached the supernova supernova level you guys and I'll be like I had that

your humble beginnings I might show up on the I might show up on the podcast I might sign up for the podcast I'm not even kidding don't do that you're doing great you're doing great things

don't go backwards thank you so much thank you thank you guys for listening don't forget to send in your questions at asknick

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