The Viall Files - E391 Bachelor Recap With Jim Jefferies Plus Genevieve

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Today we are joined by Comedian and Bachelor Fan, Jim Jefferies! On this DOUBLE episode of Bachelor Recap we break down the explosive Women Tell All and discuss all the drama from Fantasy Suites. Reflecting on the Tell All, we ask if the rest of the women stooped to Shanae’s level, turning themselves into mean girls and going too far by trying to get revenge. We also question if Shanae is evil or if the power of the edit is strong enough to make someone making bad choices look like a villain. We then have Genevieve call in to get the real deal on all of the season’s drama and to hear her reasoning for going so hard on Shanae in the Tell All. We question Genevieve’s comments about Shanae having a “diaper outfit” and calling her a hypocrite. We then dive into Fantasy Suite discussion, talking about how many contestants you should have sex with, how sure the Bachelor is going into the fantasy suite, and how Clayton may ruin everything he has going for him. We also talk about how Clayton saying he loves someone might reveal the winner and how this crazy season will come to an end.  “They say ‘I love you’ over and over again for 8 hours. That messes with you.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Everlywell: Get 20% off your at-home lab test at http://www.Everlywell.com/VIALL  Curology: Go to http://www.Curology.com/VIALL to start your 30-day trial! Cancel anytime. Prescription subject to consultation. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @JimJefferies @genparisi See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the vile files bachelor recap edition and boy do we have a lot to cover returning guests jim jeffries is with us uh we are super excited he's feeling better i am ready to uh actually it's there's so much to recap and we are glad that you're here to break this all down uh before we get into the episode just a couple housekeeping things so next week we got a two-night finale, as you guys now are made aware of. Because it's supposed to be

monumental, we are going to recap each episode individually. So we're going to have our ass nicks on Monday, and then somewhere in the middle of the night or early Tuesday morning, we're going to recap for Monday night's Bachelor finale, which I will be making

a guest appearance on AFR and some of other alumni as well, I think, because apparently it's nuts. Christina Harris, big Bachelor fan, will be with us on Monday to break down Monday night's episode of The Bachelor. On Tuesday, the finale,

we are having the wonderful, the amazing Ali Barthel. You know her, you love her, she's going to be in LA and she's going to come and watch it with us so she'll be in studio not remote I couldn't think of a better person to break down this mess of a finale, everyone loves Ali

so we are happy to have Ali for the finale and the fourth episode I have been promised by the show we are going to get i guess the runner-up because it sounds like it's gonna be kind of a mess i don't know if we're gonna like what does it mean to be runner-up this season i don't know because like if clayton is he with someone is he not what does that mean but i've been told that uh we'll get possibly the angriest of the uh

women so there might be a lot of angry women i've i've been told that we'll get the angriest of the uh women so there might be a lot of angry women i've i've been told that we'll get the angriest it's either going to be gabby rachel or suzy and they will be coming directly from afr to the hot seat so to speak and we will be uh well talking to them. And that will come out also first thing Wednesday morning. So four episodes, lots of cover, but we think it's worthwhile, and I think you guys do as well. Tomorrow we have an amazing episode for you. The wonderful Ashley Green.

You know her from the Twilight Empire. She is with us to talk all things. Get our thoughts on the new Batman movie. Her former co-star, Robert Patterson. She has a new podcast coming out. We're going to get into a little euphoria.

Also, we have an amazing mediation call with Nick and Danielle from Love is Blind 2. Are you watching Love is Blind 2 at all? I don't watch that one. I'm just a bachelor person is Blind 2 at all? I don't watch that one. I'm just a bachelor person. Give it a shot. I don't know.

Okay. All right. I don't want to force it. Has any of the relationships from Love is Blind worked out? Yeah. There's one from season one that people apparently really, really respond to. And there's a couple who just got married that we're going to talk to. Are you allowed to ask what each other looks like?

You're not allowed to ask anything like that? No. You look like a dick if you do. And one man did. Yeah. And he looked terrible. He was like, I love buying people clothing. What size are you?

Yeah. Didn't work out for him. Love is blind? Yeah. What size are your feet? Like, are they massive type of? He asked her if he, he's like, could I put you on my shoulders at a concert? And would it be easy?

And she said, I don't know what she said. Like at first it was like, is that a fair question or not? But he just ended up being a real ass. He is a real dick. I feel like it is blatantly not a fair question. Yeah, but I feel like, okay, it's all right. You people have nice speaking voices i got this nasally australian thing going on i don't know if i would be able to get anyone in love is blind

people love an australian gem in america not this voice though i i don't know i think you'd be all right hardly morgan freeman tune in tomorrow for our going deeper episode with ashley green nick and and dan yell from love is blind we'll be talking about all that fun stuff. You won't want to miss it. All right. We have a lot to cover. Do we have any Bachelor... We have a little something that I would like your opinion on.

One Miss Tammy. You know her. You love her. Recently on Paradise. Posted on her Instagram. And she had some very choice thoughts about the Bachelor franchise. She said her contract was up in April,

so I don't think she can say everything she wants to say, but she clearly was not happy in any way. I think it's annoying when people, they use two arguments to make the real point, which is she seems to be mad about not getting attention from producers in the show that she thinks she deserves. I mean, she mentioned lack of diversity on the show. I mean, listen, we know that the show has a bad history when it comes to diversity,

that they've drastically improved in the past couple years, and I hope they continue to work on it, and I hope they continue to platform and give representation to all different types of love stories. Wait a minute, a contract? I thought you just did a season and a season. Oh, you're like under contract for a year where they basically tell you what you can and can't do media-wise.

Oh, okay. Yeah. But as far as Tammy goes, like, she's, you know, it's a tale that is all the time with Bachelor Nation. I hear it all the time. And there's always a group of cast members who always will say something to the effect of, producers only give you attention when they want something from you.

And you know what? That's totally true. That's 100% true. It also goes both ways. The fakeness of friendships goes both ways between producers and cast and cast and producers. Cast, and I would argue, more from cast to producers. They're always reaching out to producers asking for favors how to get on paradise and things like that and i would be i would be willing to bet most of the

cast have no idea what producers last names are or their birthdays or what their family situation is or what's going on and that's fine too but don't pretend like they're desperately trying to be their friends like it's a show it's a tv show producers look at cast is well cast potential cast and if you're not a star of of their show then you you will get less attention like uh recent this past week uh a bunch of people a bunch of stars from the show got asked to do a family feud so you know nate, Nate, Michelle, Rodney, Thomas, Becca Kufrin, Joe, Serena P,

they're stars. That's like the all-star cast. Yeah, that's their current. Who did they play? My friend Reese Darby and his family just were on Celebrity Family Feud. I think it was Bachelor versus Bachelor.

Sometimes they've mixed it up. And I would be willing to bet if Tammy got a call saying, do you want to be on Celebrity Family Feud? She wouldn't have complained about any of this. And it's like, she's been on two seasons.

She's got plenty of air time. I don't get why some people on the show think they're somehow... You went on a reality TV show and you've been on twice. Your time has probably run its course. They might ask you back, but you're not one of their stars like not everyone gets to be and that's i don't i don't like nick's like talk to me when you've done four that doesn't it no it's just like just move on and or or not but like no one cares that your contract's up and and and whatever i don't even know which one she is. Exactly. I'm trying to remember which one Tammy is.

Tammy? Pull up a... She's not on this season. She was on Bachelor in Paradise. She was in a love triangle with Thomas and Aaron for a minute. Oh, yes. And she goes

to all the events. Also, she won't be done. You'll see her at other events. I do think, though, to be fair, of The Bachelor, because I think Bachelor is trying to get, of The Bachelor, because I think Bachelor

is trying to get a lot less white, and I think, like, AAPI representation is some of, like, the thinnest on the show. I hope the show continues to explore diversity

in all ways. And so, but I don't think that's why Tammy complained that the producers don't call her and ask her to do more things or do one of their podcasts

or do Celebrity Family Feud or whatever it is she's upset about. Yeah, there's nothing. I think that was a disingenuous comment to bring up when she was more focused on not getting a call from the bat phone, so to speak. Well, we have Genevieve calling in shortly so let's let's dive in to the tell-all a little bit before genevieve come calls in i mean it's a typical tell-all i thought it was it was more toxic than usual yeah right a lot of yelling a lot of yelling

i mean i don't again this is not about me. Like, Sinead, Sinead is Sinead. Whether she, you know, she certainly didn't, she wasn't contrite, but it didn't seem like, to me, like she had much of an opportunity to talk. What opportunity did she need? They kept on asking him the questions. Did you lie about this thing? No, I never lied to him.

And then, you know, that's all that she really needs to say. And then they did the whole broke-ass Meryl Streep stuff on her. Yeah. And I think she got what she deserved. But the problem was because they all did it. It could have been happening in a couple of sentences. But because they all did it at once, then they started to look like the mean girls, which is really playing into Sinead's hands

as playing the victim all the bloody time. I don't have a difference of opinion with Sinead. You know what I'm saying? Like, she didn't come out and change my mind, which is maybe she was kind of problematic. It's just more they just stooped to her level. So now you're just the same. They constantly called her a bitch the whole episode.

They called her a hypocrite? Genevieve asked if she was wearing a diaper. So they're mocking her outfit. One girl asked if she was, like, locked in a room as a child. They told her she would never find love. They, like... They're right, though.

They're right, though. She was pretty evil. I don't know if there's been a bigger villain on The Bachelor. Like, I understand what happened to the girls. The girls were so pent up with, like, She was pretty evil. I don't know if there's been a bigger villain on The Bachelor. I understand what happened to the girls. The girls were so pent up with like, if I don't say it now, I'll never say it, and it all just came flooding out at once.

She's not a good egg, that one. I don't know. You seem to be defending her. She's not a good egg. I've been on the show, so I know how it works. I've asked around, is she like a bad, an egg, so to speak? And they're like, no. She's a totally fine, nice person.

Also, these women were all gassed up. And when they start, this is how tell-all works. There's a reason why Serene and Teddy weren't part of that drama. It was all a bunch of women you barely remember from earlier in the season, and then kind of that middle of the pack. Yeah, yeah. And it's kind of like, hey, listen, you know, Paradise is around the corner, and, well, let's be honest.

You weren't on it the whole time, so let's see what she got. It's an audition opportunity. And it wasn't about getting back, it was about airtime. It reminded me of the presidential primary debates when everybody has their hat in the ring and everybody's trying to make their moment happen. And because it took on a more negative tone, it was kind of one-upping each other. Sierra, who had a lot to say about everything,

and she was a real middle-of-the-packer. Yeah, it's of one-upping each other. Sierra, who had a lot to say about everything, and she was a real middle-of-the-packer. Yeah, it's that middle-of-the-pack. I honestly thought the only real winner of, like, because, like, Teddy was net neutral. We liked her before.

Serene was net neutral. We liked her before. It was... Marlena. Marlena was, to me, the winner, where at the end of the episode, she's like, listen, I don't...

Who are we... Like, I'm gonna... I can't decide if you're a narcissist or not like we she she gave some kind of like i don't know like it's a crazy world and i was like you know what that's a bigger person i've dated toxic people yeah they're very manipulative the toxic people and they make you think that oh no maybe i'm doing something wrong and everyone else is lying to me and they play the game and man that's that's what she was doing to like like you got to give him credit he did get rid of her maybe not as quickly as they all wanted him to but he did eventually go all

right well this you have to go and so i i don't i thought that was the nicest comment at the very end when she said yeah i thought it was the nicest comment. Again, to me, it's not about defending Sinead. It's about, I don't get how, if you want to be just as bad, you get to be just as bad. If you don't get to take this high road and just be like, you have terrible character, you're a toxic person, and then just be toxic to prove your point.

Yeah, but what do you get taught in school? If a bully punches you, you punch him back, right? That's what I know. I know in hindsight, watching it, maybe it wasn't the right choice. But in the moment, if that girl screwed you over in the show, screwed you over, said that you were fake and you were cool. I can't remember. Who was the blonde girl that she was just lying about,

said, oh, she wouldn't talk to me and she said all the things. If I was that girl, I'd want to have i have my shot yeah back at her you were elizabeth did lie about about being in the hot tub she was in the hot tub okay but elizabeth lied when we're not going to talk about like shanae's lies were egregious elizabeth lies are potentially explained by i'm just like maybe i'm getting maybe i maybe i am forgetting but i'm just wondering someone explained to me that the how what were her outrageous lies i i did some i did some background checking all i've heard is shanae is not like this she's not going to win a no ball prize like she's not you know what i'm saying so like she's not like this Machiavellian strategic person. She was kind of immature, and she was ignorant. Remind me.

Maybe I'm forgetting. I don't know. You got the hots for Sinead, man. No, not at all. I don't know, because I thought she was maybe the biggest villain we've ever had. She was. She would lie, and then she would do that stupid thing afterwards when they did the screen. She goes, that's one bitch gone.

Come and get me. Like that. I've got another one gone. She would just lie about it. And then she's like, this person said that I was fake and blah, blah, blah. And she's just an actress and all that type of stuff. No, I'd be pissed with her as well. If only for her getting up and doing the fucking whippy dance

or whatever the fuck it was. Shanaynay. Yeah, fuck that. It was terrible. I'm just saying, like, I don't get how that makes it okay. Like, yes, it's at high school. Yes, was that what you do in high school? So if you want to say, if these girls want to say, yes, I'm just as mature, immature,

and I just don't get how someone, I don't get how one person can be the bully when it's a group. To me me that was bullying i agree i agree that it was a really bad luck to have all those like women speaking in that way to shanae in that setting but i do think they tried i think part of it was this pent-up frustration of like i've tried to reason with you and i cannot get through to you like elizabeth tried every single possible way to explain to her like a very basic social dynamic. She'd just calmly say, hey, listen. Yeah, but people get frustrated.

No, they did that on the show. They tried to be calm on the show. They accepted her apology on the show and even tried to be nice to her. And then you've got to understand that what they did now is after they saw the episode. They disliked her and thought that she was a lying bitch on the actual show, right? And then they watched the show and it was proved to them. And then they were all pent up and like, I'm going to get her.

I get it. They could have handled it a lot better, but I totally get where everyone's coming from. The house is always the bully on that show. It just is. The house is the bully. And does that excuse behavior? I say this every time we talk about shanae no she was not a good person this season and she didn't prove to be any better in the tell-all

i just don't get how like if you're going to talk about someone's character character like if you want to say you sucked and be sucky back but when you if you're talking about someone's character and characters about like taking the high road or looking the other way or rising above, I'm just saying you don't get to think of you're somehow of some higher moral character than the person who talks some shit about you. I don't know. Speaking of talking shit, Genevieve is here.

Genevieve's on. All right. Let's hear it from Genevieve herself. Knowledge is power. The more information you have, the less time you have to, like, insert crazy neurotic thoughts. And we're talking about your overall wellness. We're talking about EverlyWell. That's right.

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just pay $5 for shipping and handling that is C-U-R-O-L-O-G-Y dot com slash V-I-A-L-L to start your free 30 day trial cancel anytime prescription subject to consultation how's it going genevieve hi how are you we're great how are you i'm doing well thank you for having me all right uh so we're currently talking about tell all before you you called in

uh i guess mixed opinions on on the performance have you have you seen it yet I have not okay I have not seen it what is your that yeah what is your perception of how you and some of your peers acted on the show towards chinette tell all not the show yeah specifically tell all I know that we all definitely had something to say I for sure said everything

that I wanted to say it was a very long night I do not remember all the like little commentary I'm not sure about that but I got to go I know I got to go in the hot seat with Sinead and we were like, she kind of pulled something up. I'm not sure if it's shown, but. That you having sex with Aaron Clancy.

Yeah. And that was like, just ridiculous. Just to say that's not true, everybody. after that i kind of just i was like she hasn't changed she's not here to try and get any redemption or apologize so yeah even if you did have sex with aaron who gives a shit yeah you're single i mean yeah it's not this one's business but yours sure i mean i i honestly just to be honest i thought you guys were really mean. Like your comment about like Sinead wearing diapers as she walked up to the hot seat before you walked up there. That's the only misstep I think you made. I don't think you were mean at all.

I'm not like Nick at all. I think Sinead had it coming to her. No, everyone was very honest. And that's the thing. i don't think anyone said anything that wasn't true and if everyone kind of saw what we saw um i don't know i think she had it coming for her honestly i'm just having a hard time understanding how everyone can heckle like i don't think shanae was great at all i mean she has a lot of things to be accounted for i just have a hard time understanding because so many of the conversations were about

shanae's character and i'm just having a hard time understanding how the things that were all said to shanae and when she goes up there you guys are heckling her and calling her a bitch and saying fuck you and mocking her dress i'm just having a hard time understand how it's like any different maybe it's the same i just don't understand how it's better so in my opinion it's just like okay i guess you guys are all in the same field and i understand the frustration of being mad at shanae i i get that but it's just more like why not why not take the high road is my question. Because we tried so many times, honestly.

We just, we tried so many times to be nice to her. I, multiple times, had conversations with her off camera that wasn't shown. And we were fine. Everyone, most people try to give her the benefit of the doubt. And it's like, we just did that so benefit of the doubt and it's like we just did that so many times and now it's just not even worth it anymore so i guess yeah i don't know i don't remember saying fuck you um but i do remember it was uh who was about her dress i thought it was a better dress because it did i'm sorry it looked like a black diaper under her dress

um and i didn't know that was going to, I don't know. It was just my commentary. And yeah, I don't regret anything. And I honestly think she had it coming for her. She was very fake to all of us. She would lie. She would act fake to us,

go to Clayton and say that we were being bullies when we were being very nice to her. So she just, she's just full of lies. And I don't feel bad about anything. Fair enough. Nick, every movie you see, you see there's someone bullied, and then at the end of the film, the town people beat the bully and kick him out, and we all rejoice,

except for you where you think that the bloody bully should stay there running the bloody place. I think bloody is a loose term used in Bachelor Nation. In my experience, the house is usually the bully. This is how I, in my experience. I don't know. Sinead was a special level of evil, man. I'm telling you.

No, she was definitely shitty. No one in the house was a bully, honestly. Like, we were so nice to her in the beginning until she flipped that switch. I just mean the house in general. Yeah. Okay. Can we talk about the fact, I mean, obviously, Sinead brought up you and Aaron, but then you said that, quote, I know you've been DMing him. He sent me screenshots. He thinks you're crazy. How did Sinead find

out you guys didn't even met? So I think maybe three months ago or something, I was out at a bar and I saw Aaron and I posted something. You just posted a picture of them and then she took that? I posted, it was a picture at a bar. And that's the only thing that I could think of because that's the only time I've ever seen him. So I'm assuming that's what she was talking about and where she got it.

But she had no, I mean, she had no evidence. Even if you did, no one, you're off the show. Even your even if i did that's not it just doesn't make sense it's not something to throw at me like i was off the show um clayton is potentially engaged and so i think i have the right to do what i want that is that is true were you guys hoping for shanae to like what were your expectations of shanae when she came on tell all like what were you guys hoping for i had some hope that maybe we could all like come like just come to some um agreement i guess and just all be okay because that's all of us girls have a very good relationship and it is sad to see that Sinead's not in that but we know that she did that um so I really was going and hoping that maybe

I wasn't looking for an apology directly to me but maybe just an apology to everyone for manipulation or whatever you want to call it um and it was just like the complete opposite so I think that's why everyone was just like, really, this is not, she had, and I know Cassie said, Cassie was like kind of her friend in the house. And she said, I was hoping that you would kind of use this time, but you're not giving me anything and I can't really have your back in this situation.

I think if Sinead came on and she just said, I've watched the show back and I regret even just some of the things I said. She didn't regret anything. And so it sort of fell into her lap because she came on, basically said, I don't regret nothing. And then the girls all attacked her and now she gets to play the victim again. I don't think she gets to play the victim. She is.

Right now we're saying poor Shanae. They all picked on her. Maybe I'm not articulating my words correctly. I'm not defending Sinead or protecting her. I think she didn't do anything to redeem herself. I don't understand the two wrongs make a right

argument. I just like... You all just sat there and said nothing? I would have like... I would have more calmly... I and said nothing? I would have like made more... Yeah, that's the thing. I'm not... I would have more calmly... None of us were about to say nothing.

Yeah, I don't know if I would have said what they said. It's just my opinion. In the moment, it's very hard. It's very, yeah. It's very hard to respond to something emotionally heightened in a calm and collected way, especially when that like emotionally heightened thing... It is hard, but that's what we refer to as people like who...

Well, Marlena did it. I'm just saying. I've lost my shit on TV in the moment. I've done it. I told Piers Morgan to fuck off. I lost my shit. I lost it. Yeah, we all have a right to do.

I'm just saying, like, I just don't get the two wrongs make a right. That's all I'm saying. I don't think anyone, I'm very careful to, like, you know, I don't know if you watched'm very careful to, like, you know, I don't know if you watched Katie's season, Genevieve. I do not. But there was a gentleman named Thomas.

I don't know. Do you remember Thomas? I remember Thomas. I met Thomas. He came to one of my shows. He's a nice guy. He's all right. Those guys called him a narcissist, and they had some,

and I don't know anything about Sinead. Yeah, but Thomas was no Sinead. I know he wasn't. Thomas was just better looking than everybody and just like a little tiny, and you said he wanted to be the bachelor. Sure. Which, of course, everyone. Janet, did you want to be the bachelorette or was that never on your radar?

Honestly, I could never, I wouldn't be able to do that. It was too much for me. I think potentially paradise is something I could do, but. I don't think you'd enjoy being the bachelor either because I saw you in the therapy session, all that type of stuff. No, you're like me because how could you do every episode and just do this whole, yeah,

I believe a woman's heart needs to be protected. And I put my barriers up. Everyone's talking about their fucking barriers and when they go down and how they never open up to people and how they're shy and they're on fucking tv right no you could you couldn't have had that conversation a million times i don't think it's for you either it's a it's a tough thing to do about the therapy i wanted to ask you because like on the tell all you're this out you were very outspoken you were you were outspoken earlier in the season and then on therapy were you just like done with it?

Like you became very quiet. You didn't, you seemed like you couldn't find the words. And what was your thought process there? Did you think it was like fake therapy? Or what was your, in your head that kind of like made it look like you, at least from our eyes, you just kind of shut down? So honestly, going into that date, I was kind of um i knew it was my time to go and i was i don't know if this can be shown i'm sorry but i was planning to talk to clayton at night um at the group date and tell him like i just wasn't ready to go to hometown okay so you

were gonna and so when this therapy so when the therapy came up i'm like well there's no way of getting past this without having the conversation that I wanted to have. So I kind of knew it was coming. And I had no previous time to kind of dive deep with my feelings with Clayton. So I wasn't about to just let everything out, like knowing that I was going home. Yeah, that makes sense.

So I just, yeah, I stayed silent. I didn't know what to say. Who wants to have bloody therapy on TV? Anyway, that's the problem. You've got two types of dates. You've got the date, the single date where you get to do something fun and go buy clothes or get massaged or it suits you up each other's body. Or you've got a group date where you'll be punching each other

or you'll have to talk about some uncle who did something bad to you or something, you know what I mean? There's some therapy thing that's very upsetting that you'll have to emotionally do something or you'll have to talk about some uncle who did something bad to you or something, you know what I mean? There's some therapy thing that's very upsetting that you'll have to emotionally do something or you'll get physically hurt. Group dates, you're getting hurt. That's the only way around it. 100%.

That's true. Even watching this last episode, they're just like, oh, what did you do on a date? Oh, we went down into a cave in the bottom of the earth. What did you have to do? I had to ride a dune buggy where I wore a helmet after making my hair really nice and try to look pretty and I had to ride a dune buggy where I wore a helmet after making my hair really nice and try to look pretty and I have to wear a helmet

and roll around in the mud and say it was fun. Just get to the bloody bedroom and have sex. That's what we're all trying to do. We're going to see you in paradise or like if you get asked, you'll go? There's a good chance, yes. So you live in Hollywood,

Greg? I live in LA. You're from Boston so you live in Hollywood, Greg? I live in L.A. You're from Boston. You live in L.A. And should I call you an actress? Are you an aspiring actress, or is that just not a thing? That's honestly not a thing. I've done modeling, but I've never, ever done acting in any sense.

And, yeah, I have no plans to. I've never done it well myself. It would also be, it's okay if you ever did too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and no, go ahead, research, and there's nothing I've ever acted in. We didn't say you were a successful actress. You haven't got nine BB page yet. You might just be hopeless.

Genevieve, thank you so much for coming. We enjoyed watching you this season. You were my fave, Genevieve. You were my number one in the show. I wanted you to win. I was opening a bachelorette. I wish you all luck in the world. Jim definitely hopes to see you in Paradise and we all do as well. Best of luck.

Thank you for having me. Take care. Thank you. Bye. I do a thing with my wife and my kid. What we do is, I told you this last podcast, what we do is we bet on all the different people. And you can only place your bets once they get out of the limo. Genevieve was my horse right away.

That was the one I put all the money on. I said, yeah, you bloody lost me some cash there, Genevieve. Not a lot. We're doing like 20 cents. I'm doing it with a nine-year-old. It's probably not the show for it I just fast forward Through the fantasy suites

My son watches a whole series In about 10 minutes Just the bits he can watch Wait was I supposed to hang up When I said bye? Yeah yeah That's how it works This is your first time

With a phone Okay Alright Nice to meet you Bye Genevieve Thank you Bye All right. Nice to meet you. Bye, Genevieve. Thank you. Bye. She's still your favorite? I'm in the hang up when I say bye.

Whatever. I get where she's coming from, though. Maybe I'm taking crazy pills, and I'm sure most people will agree with Jim. I think what it is is, like, your experience in Bachelor was one of, like, being ostracized from the main group and so of course it's not even just about like me projecting about my i'm not saying you're projecting though but i think like you've seen through that most people who have been on the outside are villains who kind of get like exiled from back bachelor nation i and i say when i say like the house is the bully i don't think and jenny v was quick to be like none of us bullied her when i say the house like it's a group mentality it's a group mentality it's a mob

mentality and i just i don't see how and again she hasn't watched yet and we don't know how twitter is going to react but i just don't get how someone can say uh like whatever shanae did how if you want to stoop to their level, then stoop to their level. Now you're on their level. Do you want to fight fire with fire or just get burned by someone else's fire? Yeah. But what did they... Sinead was annoying.

Sinead was probably annoying to be around. Lied to their faces constantly and then mocked them about it. Okay. And, yes, and she did... Yes! I've seen other villains on the show. Who was that blonde girl

who got kicked off in the double date with the twins, right? There's many, many scenes. Olivia, yeah. Olivia. And they have come to apologize.

And I believe that Olivia was hardly done by. I don't believe she did much wrong and they all really went after her and she was made into a villain

and she had to go to social media and go to therapy and I feel like she was edited very badly. Sinead, I don't think so. I am telling as someone who has talked to people is that like, well,

Sinead did some shit. Yes, there is editing and she got a, there definitely is editing and she has stuff to be apologized. If she apologized just a little bit i would have just gone all right she did not redeem herself it has my comments have nothing to do with shanae's

behavior and maybe i stand alone in a world where it's just apparently it's like if someone does something to you if you dated shanae would you trust her i wouldn't date you not not not a bit like i'm saying in a fantasy world where all your dreams come true. If you got to, yeah, like you wouldn't, you couldn't, boy. No, I'm just kidding.

Anyway, so if you dated Shanae, would you trust her? Not like for infidelity reasons, just like that she wouldn't be a bit conniving and a bit, wouldn't cause you grief

in your life. But I don't find her personality remotely attractive. I know, but yeah, okay, you're not getting the game. You're just like... Ignore all of that. If anybody was dating her, should they trust that she's not going to be... Say your buddy was dating her. She's a shit stirrer.

She looks like a shit stirrer. She's a shit stirrer. She's the type of person that you leave a party and you're in the car and you go, I wasn't talking to that girl. What? That person wasn't being mean to you. What are you talking about? That person was being mean to you. The person was just joking around with you. And then you got to talk about forever. And then you can't talk to your friend Gavin anymore because he ate all the fucking shrimp.

Right. You know, it's just, she's one of them. I've dated them. Pain in the neck. I'm doing a terrible job of articulating my point. I feel, I think what you're saying is Sinee didn't make herself look any better but the group made themselves look worse yes correct that's all I'm saying they just and I don't I completely get why they they did it why they made themselves worse I understand why someone can get that mad but I don't think that makes them any better don't you say anything about Genevieve she was trying to be nothing they said to jenna she doubled down on the diaper comment or i was i don't know if i respect it i was shocked

by that i mean she was like she did look like she was wearing a diaper but i don't get it and that's fine if she wants to say that good for her but we're also like criticizing shanae for doubling down i just i'm i feel like i'm taking crazy pills by like one side being like, it's totally fine if someone does it first. And basically it gives us like full authority to say whatever the fuck we want. And there's no limit to how nasty we can act towards a person because they acted nasty to us. You gotta retaliate. If you, if you, if you have a kid, if you have a kid and they're in school and they've been punched by a bully every day, what's your advice? Eventually, you go, walk away, walk away, ignore it, ignore it, ignore it.

And then as a parent, you go, punch them back. Eventually, you do. You've got to stand up to bullies. Their biggest gripe is for lying and she threw a trophy. I mean, lying is a big deal but lying's a big deal. It's a big deal. She said falsehoods about people that sent people home. I can tell you, Sinead didn't get anyone sent home.

Do you think though people were sent home because they lacked time with Clayton because of her drama? People got sent home because Clayton wasn't interested in them and they weren't relevant to the story or Clayton's love life. And Shanae, because either she wanted airtime or not, decided to act

a certain way and the women focused on Shanae. They helped create the villain that was Shanae. If they ignored Shanae, Shanae would have

been sent home. Also, Clayton liked, as Clayton admitted, he liked Shanae at least some level. He was attracted to her. No, if they ignored Sinead, she wasn't going home. She was there forever if they ignored her.

The only reason she went home is because every single one of them went up and said something, and eventually he was worn down. I thought it was a bit much when they got into him for not sending her home earlier because I'm like, the guy was just figuring things out. It's his choice. It's his journey. Yeah, he was just figuring things out. We've all been with that person that your friends say don't go out

with that person but you're a little bit spellbound by them and then eventually and then in the light of day you go, what the fuck was I thinking? And he probably has these after watching the show, the what the fuck I was thinking moment, but maybe he didn't. Maybe he's going to end up with her because I predict that he is going to end up with no one.

We're in an eye for an eye society. There's a little bit more in Teller. What about, who else was the other one that got up where they all bloody ripped into her? Oh, the girl who- Sarah. She said she didn't cry. He said he didn't cry. That was too big.

Sarah lied. Sarah lied Sarah lied but he was very defensive about that I did not cry on any date with her I just want that to be known Sarah didn't Sarah post something about like the truth would come out and that we would all like hear the truth and she definitely did not Sarah should work in PR the way she was pivoting out of like like she lied on camera like actively during the tell-all and then was still like pivoting out of it a moment later I was like work in PR she had that bit when you're lying where you're like I still have a shot here you know when you caught up with her where she goes did he cry on your any of your dates and she went yeah and he goes well we're gonna ask her he comes out she goes okay great and she's just hoping that maybe he cried on another date and

he got confused then he'd be like i cried on some dates i'm not sure if i like some do sex makina yeah yeah like he was she was gonna go you did remember that time is the thing oh maybe i did and then she'd get out of it right maybe she was just like yeah to your point she's just like don't just don't admit that you lied just just say that's that was my version you know just the the i'm gonna speak my truth in my truth in my world you cried and that's how she was there was a world where she could have just doubled down and just go you did on that date when the thing you cried that's right she could have she could have just kept on saying she's like you're lying teddy and sarah have each it's kind of like a she said she said situation based on media that they've done since they've left the show because teddy said that sarah was manipulative because

she would go into specifically teddy and rachel's rooms to talk about her connection with clayton and then sarah released commentary that she was like well we were the closest friends in the house of course we were talking about the guy we were dating why wouldn't i talk about my connection so it's very like was it to be friendly or was it to be manipulative i honestly don't understand like sarah lied that's that's obvious i don't totally get the that argument of in that world it's a fine line so i can see a world where if if sarah's coming in saying you know we have this such great connection and i guess that can be i get that how that can be intimidating but i i don't see how that's manipulative that was the word that depends on

you know it could be it certainly could be manipulative, but could it be also something you in that world, you don't want, you don't want to hear it. Some people choose to be vocal about the relationship that they have going on with the lead. And some people don't like if it feels unnecessary, but I, to me, it's like, it's a bit of a reach to prove that she was manipulative. It's's just maybe they just handled it differently i i don't i i see both sides but i don't know just because we like teddy better and yes sarah lied so she doesn't have that going for her so now immediately we're like oh well do we we know you as a liar we're more inclined to believe Teddy. But that argument that, oh, well, you looked confident

and therefore you were manipulating us, I don't quite follow. I'll tell you who I want to give it up for, Mara. Because I thought Mara was going to, like, if she got something that girls tell all, women tell all, right, I thought she would be very vocal and she was composed. She didn't get into any arguments. I thought she was going to go all Jersey on the fucking scene. And she was good. I thought she would be very vocal and she was composed. She didn't get into any arguments. I thought she was going to go all Jersey on the fucking scene. Yeah.

And she was good. I thought she did well. I thought she did well. She didn't seem to bitch too much. She interjected a couple of times, but fairly. I would love to know what was cut. I want to see like an uncut. I want all eight hours.

I know that Elizabeth tried to have her moment. They do eight hours? What? They do eight hours. Oh, it's like eight hours. Well, because they hire SAG actors to sit in the audience and they're paid an eight-hour rate.

Because of COVID. Okay. Not normally. Okay. Since COVID. I could have done with the bloody work. They didn't involve me.

I would have had a Team Sinead poster. There was someone holding one of them up, Team Sinead. Yeah, that's the audience right now is currently sag actors but yeah that she mara did not take the bait you know and that's i think that's why

i'm critical of because i find it to be you know oh well if if if someone did this to you you're no you would act out this was i want to secure my spot on paradise i mean at least genevieve was was uh genevieve did experience the bullshit of chanel so genevieve has at least some gripe to go on but like hunter and some of these other girls who were barely even there i don't you know that that was them trying to get their jill was popping up a lot yeah i mean a lot of people i don't remember their names kira oh and it's they're all told the same thing lindsey this is your chance to shine and they decided to say all those things so they could get on paradise it was not about someup, pent-up rage from months earlier. It was, let me get back on TV so I can get more followers.

That's true, because it was a while ago. It was months ago. Yeah, whatever. All right, on to fantasy. There's a lot going on here. I have a lot of opinions on fantasy. Okay. That's why we brought you in, Jim.

I have a lot of opinions on fantasy. Okay. That's why we brought you in, Jim. Yeah, that's funny. I have a lot of opinions. It's not, it was, I, overall, I think Clayton on Tellall, he was fine. He took a beating, seemed to answer questions, and then. Well, at the end of Tellall, there was a telling moment where, what's the name of the girl? Sierra said, how do you treat when we, we talk, how are you treating the women this way? How basically said, how do you sleep at night to him? Right. And then another girl said, she said, uh, I'm just checking. Are you okay? Yeah. Teddy,

Teddy said, are you okay? So now I'm like, the guy ends up with nobody. And after watching this, I don't think the guy ends up with anybody now. Because Teddy asked if he was okay? Because Teddy asked if he was okay. And then like, but I want to know, because what I saw, how do you treat women this way was, he didn't treat the women any differently than any other season of the show. And women have treated men any different to any other season of the show. And the only difference is it's like telling every – he's got two that he says

I'm in love with and one that he says I'm falling in love with. So he's coming third, right? Well, I thought it was two I'm fallings in love and one I'm in love. No, no, no, because one was I'm falling in love, but then after he shagged her, when he leaves, she went, I love you. And he went, I love you. I love you too. I love you too.

That was really strange. They obviously said it in the thing. He screamed for both Rachel and Gabby. Yeah, and then for Gabby, he went, I'm falling in love. And it feels so good. That was terrible. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Viking Clayton, got to come out. He loves to yell. He loves to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Viking Clayton, got to come out. He loves the L. He loves the L. And his Hillary Clinton jacket. I do Arden Mirren's podcast, and she calls it the Hillary Clinton jacket. It's the same one that Hillary Clinton wore for the debate, the blue long one. It's spot on.

Clayton, we were tough on the casting of Clayton, obviously. And then recently, at least I felt bad for the guy. He was being crucified for just kind of being who he is, but ultimately felt like he was just being nice and respectful, but this fantasy suite I thought was a terrible episode for him. He's somewhat in the right, but he should have handled it better because it wasn't a good look. It's terrible.

Well, I get where he's coming from but he should have handled it better because it wasn't a good look. It's terrible. Here, well, yeah, well. I get where he's coming from because it's just like fucking it because he gets in trouble with, what's Susie? Is it Susie? No, it's Susie. Susie. And he gets in trouble with her and then what he should have done is when she was leaving and saying, I can't handle this,

he should have gone, well, you're breaking my my heart but if you have to leave you have to leave here here's how i saw because i thought it was a really fascinating it's it's happened before the are you like are you gabby more sex positive hey i want you to go out there and if you need to do whatever you need to do, Gabby was making it very clear about like without saying, hey, if you go fuck everyone, I'll still be here. We're not here to judge that. Susie has a more conservative approach and fine. That's her.

They very clearly made Susie the third shag. Yeah. And I know that's not the term they use in the studio, right? But they very clearly made her the third shag. They knew. Because if she was the first shag no problem because then he would have gone off and done these other things and then she could have stressed out in the house but they knew that her tension level was at a level where we have to

leave her waiting as long as possible and then she can knock 100 they they literally put her on a spiral staircase they literally had the shot of the spiral staircase and then she's like i'm spiraling it was like they knew exactly what was coming. Of course, they produced the hell out of a great episode. They set it up. Jesse Palmer was coincidentally like just there with a coat on, ready to go. I was thinking about that.

I was like, did they wake him up at one in the morning? I just thought that he had like a beeper on him or a phone. A pager. He's a doctor. He was literally standing by. He sits in a hotel room nearby and then you go, we've got an emergency. They're having a fight. Get me into the suit. Hair and makeup rushes over. Most of the time if the host is not needed, he's out. He might not even be there. He's not even there the whole time. Sometimes he has

other shows. When Chris Harrison was a host, he was out golfing, doing whatever the fuck. So the fact that Jesse was there means they were like they knew you we're gonna need you tonight they they knew and he was and it wasn't like you know sometimes you can't keep track of like time right and you know we don't know how maybe three or four hours went by maybe it's the next day I don't know you sometimes you can't but like not a lot of time went past because suzy had come out right so at most maybe 15 20 40 minutes but jesse was on standby and i've quite liked jesse this season he seems like but wow what a useless moment all he did was yeah no you were uh you told me you were afraid of that oh Oh, she's back. All right, see you later. He offered absolutely nothing for Clayton. Here's a question.

They've been doing the flash forward since episode one, the most unbelievable season of The Bachelor. And there's a scene where the guy goes, I have been intimate with all three of you. I thought he said all three. I think he said I love all three and I've been intimate with both of you oh okay i mean yeah the in the in the super tease is highly edited it's um here's my biggest criticism with with clayton and the suzy conversation is again suzy that's her point of view right and while suzy was she, mad, and angry, she was feeling

all these emotions, and she has a right to feel how she was, how she feels. Clayton, to your point, I would, I can see why he's frustrated and upset and feels like, well, wait, what do you mean? I thought, but when Susie was frustrated, she spent the whole time expressing frustration while trying to empathize with Clayton. She was expressing her frustration kind of outwardly, not at Clayton, just being like, I don't know. I don't know. This is how I feel. And I wish I didn't feel this way. And I'm not even mad at you, but I just don't know how I can get engaged to someone. You know, that's a normal, like, yeah, you had sex with two other people days before i wish i could and maybe i might try to but i'm having a hard time yeah and clayton he got mad at suzy yeah he didn't empathize

with suzy at all he got mean he got he directed his anger at suzy and suzy directed her frustration kind of just outward and to me that's the biggest difference. He was a dick. I understand his frustration because what did she think was going to happen? Like you don't really – he's not going to not have sex with the two girls and then just have sex. I don't know if that's a problem. That might have happened in previous seasons, but it's – When you get to that level, like for example, I didn't, right? You didn't have sex with anybody?

The last. It was a shitty week. I went into the fantasy suite with three women who throughout the season talked about fantasy suite, can't wait to fantasy suite, and it sucked. It was a terrible time because I had to navigate and not have sex with two women who were trying to have sex while getting through a night hoping they would still think i might pick them impossible to do and for me i just decided

before i know who i'm gonna pick i don't want to get engaged and try to like, is, is, is beautiful. You know, there are two women are like, I'm just going to avoid this. Yeah, it is. But you avoid the mess. And I, I had to navigate through it. And I, I made that choice to not do it. Was she on the first night, second night or third night? Third night. See, that's the whole thing.

What if you had sex with her and she was dreadful? Because there's people, there's people I've been attracted to. And then you've gone to bed with them. I'm like, maybe they're good with other people people but me and them haven't gelled you know what i mean sure what if you went oh my god this isn't for me totally and i understand that if you have sex with the other two maybe the physical thing and you'll go oh wow we've got something really going on here and you also you must know that holy hell they must really fuck the shit out of you like they're like because it's an audition yeah

it's an audition no one's laying down for a ring they're fucking for a ring man they're going for it uh yeah we're not we're not the shaming clayton at all for going for it's just two it's just two different points of view of which i think there are people on both sides everyone when they get into sexual honesty you have to train the other person up. That goes both ways. You have to go, this is what I'm into. I need you to do A, B, and C. And what can I do better? And that's how you become sexually compatible. And sometimes it just happens.

But even with great sex, you still got to go, I've got a little kink here. I've got a little kink there. And all that type of stuff. Yeah. Great sex with someone you have the first time can only get better. Only get better. Yeah. And so we're just talking about two different points of view,

and Clayton, I think, looked horrible because of how angry and mad he got at it. My biggest issue was, though, is he kept creating this hypothetical situation to Susie and kept implying that there was only one person that he'd had sex with. So when I first watched it, I was thinking to myself, oh, they've edited it out of order. She must be the second pick. And then finally at the end, he goes, so let's say that I've had sex with both. And I was like, he should have just been honest from the get-go. She asked him about

if he hooked up and he, yeah, he he do we call that lying? That is lying. Yeah. He like implied it was just one the whole time. He gave a half truth. What? Yeah he didn't want to like

yeah he gave a half truth. I think he didn't know how much it was appropriate to disclose at that time which like was him trying to cover his ass. I would do this. He was me.

A gentleman never kisses and tells. I would have kept calling myself a gentleman. When Susie asked him he gave a, and you could tell he was mad. And in my opinion, he was like, fuck you, producers. Like he felt ambushed? Yeah. And also he was.

Think about it. Susie was last. She got gassed up the whole time. All these questions about her point of view on sex and how she would feel, like what if clayton has sex does she spent that whole it's like so you have a day off in between right so she spent four days being asked what are you going to do if clayton has sex with someone else how do you how does it feel right and it's clayton's like i'm in love with you and suzy's like cool so did you

fuck anyone else you know he even said I'm the most in love with you. Yeah, and let's not pretend that on previous seasons, while I may not have had sex with multiple people, plenty of people have, and again, it's totally fine. In fact, I would argue most seasons, the lead has sex with at least two people.

I think majority are two. I did some thinking. I think it's mostly two, right? And those conversations, like, people i think majority are two yeah i did some and i think it's mostly two right and those conversations like and suzy's also not the first person and i think every season you have at least contest one contestant who's like once you get to the end you know like you know you signed up for all those things and you find yourself in the final three and then you're like holy shit like i'm supposed to get engaged what like in a week and a half? And then you literally go through a week when you're watching

people go on these fantasy suite dates and you start wondering, could I get past this if someone else sleeps with someone else? And some people, like Susie, are like, I don't think I can get past this. And those conversations usually happen in the fantasy suite. It's not a coincidence that it happened on camera this time around.

Right? So Clayton's just like... So you're saying there's lots of fantasy suites where you just fight all night? fantasy suite it's not a coincidence that it happened on camera this time around right so like clayton's just like so you're saying there's lots of fantasy suites where you just fight all night oh you talk at least yeah yeah or they might be like the some girl or some guy maybe like especially after the last you know you're last you might not yeah i'd watch jeopardy i'd just turn the telly on and you and then there might be a lot of people who are like, hey, did you sleep with anyone else? Yeah, I'm good then. And yeah, I'm sure a lot of fantasy suites ended up with best intentions to hook up

and maybe ended in a fight. How should have he handled the situation when she asked him that? Because what I think he should have done is just gone, look, I really like you. For me on this journey, I needed to explore the other people. I'm confused.

I am in love with you. But for me personally, this is what I had to do. And I'm sorry if that hurt you. Some version of that. That would have been the best way to do it. And then just like, and he should have just let her go gracefully.

And if he's truly in love with her, he should have just gone, you know, let her leave. And then said to the other girls, I can't get engaged here. I'm in love with Susie. And then try in the outside world. Yeah. I mean, there's still.

Because I think any girl who saw that, if you went, nah, I just told the other girls to go home, might not get engaged here, but give you a shot. That's a great point. I mean, if Clayton tries now to pivot and go after, and by go after I mean like pursue Rachel and Gabby, they're going to watch it back and feel like a second option. He said, I'm the most in love with you.

They're always good because that's pretty clearly saying you're the one that we're going to, you're going to win. You're the winner. Yeah. And usually the person who goes last in the fantasy suites is at least in the lead at that point, or the winner. They're always kind of saved for last for the most part.

But I thought, I thought going back to how Clayton could have handled it, when, when it first came, when they were sitting down, I was like watching, and I thought Clayton was, I thought it was okay.

It was both back and forth of them trying to find the words, both being frustrated and not coming at each other. But like after he went outside and talked to Jesse, like something switched. Talked. Yeah, talked. Hey, hey, bye. He's like, hey, hey, bye.

Yeah. That's some great advice. I know you were afraid of this. Oh, here she is. That's some great advice. I know you were afraid of this. Yeah. Oh, here she is. Here she is. I'll let you go. Yeah.

Oh, I want that job, man. That's got to be the best job in TV. It is, yeah. Ladies, you have one more rose. Say your goodbyes. Fucking, what's going on? Yeah, I think. They proved in the People Tell All that, what's his name?

Jake, is it? What's his name? Jesse. Jesse. Jesse. Jesse was a bumbling idiot on his season. Could hardly talk. That was awesome. Yeah, yeah.

And now he's all TV savvy. What he should have done is when he came back, I just want to, like that. If he wanted to get a real big laugh when they came back, cutting to the ad break, he should have just done that. Just gone. Yeah. Off the ads. He would have gotten done that. Just gone. Off the ads he would have gotten a big laugh

but who am I to teach comedy? So yeah, I don't know. I wish Clayton flipped a switch on that time. He was just done. I feel like then he was like here's your car. He was a dick.

Yeah, he could have been like He went from saying here's your car he's a dick yeah if he could have went from saying let's spend these seven hours talking this through to saying okay great you don't want to be here yeah i'm wondering what all of a sudden changed because if that's who if that's who clayton is then he is an asshole because like you can be mad and you can handle your feelings as a dick or you can hang your feelings you he could yeah he you can handle your feelings. He could have been like, Susie, listen, it seems like we're both not on the same page. I feel a little ambushed, I guess,

but I understand. You've never had arguments where in the moment, you're like, fine, just leave. And then the next day, you're like, we should talk this out. But normal people can come back. She goes in that car, you're never going to see her again.

Exactly. And in that moment, he probably wanted her to get in that car. And so you wonder how he's feeling now, whether he's like, I'm sure he wishes he handled it better. He's also on TV. I'm not saying he's like the worst person ever, but it was definitely kind of a, I thought he was unnecessarily a dick,

and I get that he was mad, but he still chose to be a dick. He didn't have enough empathy for her and what she was going through, even if he believed he was in the right, which I mostly think he is in the right because that's sort of what the show is. Sure. I mean, I think it's just, he has the right, for my opinion, he has the right to feel how he does, and Susie has the right to feel how she does. And I think it's just, he has the right, from my opinion, he has the right to feel how he does. And Susie has the right to feel how she does. And I think.

How did the girls never say anything to her? Are they told not to say what happens in the fantasy suite? Or do they think that hurts their chances of winning? They just come in and smile. Yeah, with like bedhead. That was the thing. I was like, Gabby fully redid her hair, and you're calling her out for having bedhead. Yeah. You like bedhead. That was the thing. I was like, Gabby fully redid her hair and you're calling her out for having bedhead.

You have bedhead? Yeah. Clayton said like, why are you telling me this now? When was Susie going to say something? There has been girls that have said before the fantasy suites, they've gone, if you sleep with anybody else, it's not something I'm comfortable. Who was that girl on Pilot Pete?

Maddie. Yeah, but it was literally the same date. It was literally the dinner date before the fantasy suite. There's a reason why on every season things happen the same week. Right around, if you're right before hometowns, if you're about to get sent home, you tell the bachelor you're falling in love and get sent home because they realize that they don't feel the same way.

And then the person who's falling in love, who's about to get sent home in hometowns, coincidentally says he or she is falling in love. And if there's someone who is openly not sure if they can continue dating someone who has sex with multiple people, it always comes up during the fantasy suite. Things are saved. Do I want to talk about it yeah you know maybe save it and also like when is suzy going to talk about it like she's focused everything happens so fast and is so intense so while she is introducing this guy to her family and bringing the bachelor into her house and suzy's like i think has been a fan of the show right suzy watches i've i've heard she watches this show so when also like when clayton was like i'm in love with you she knew how impactful that she knew that that doesn't usually happen you could tell that she was caught off guard but i'm just saying like she's bringing

the bachelor into her house she's not going to be be like, oh, by the way, let's talk about, there's just no time. You have these, there's a reason why you have such little time. And as soon as you start talking about other things, it's like time to go. It's, oh, got to go. You just don't have time to sit down and say, you know what, let's just, can I just talk? You just don't have time. And I feel like this is an issue that exists in the real world of the whole debate between

if you have needs, you need to vocalize them and tell me as your partner versus the other person being like, I want you to just think of this. I don't want you to just do stuff because I'm asking. I want you to be thoughtful and identify what's going on. That's such a rich, real-world debate. So you add in all the bachelor factors

and like, yeah, of course it's a shit show. And Susie was acknowledging that it was a shit show and Clayton was like assigning all of the blame to Susie. One of the problems is as well is with Clayton, if that's how he fights on camera, he might be a very aggressive guy off camera.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying he is because we don't know. But like, ah, when you match someone's energy, your energy, good or bad, doesn't look as bad.

Like for, you know, back to the cell, there are going to be a lot of people who disagree with me because everyone's just like, well, Sinead did that. So they did it. So they match each other's energy. But with,

with Susie, she again was feeling all these, like she, like you tell she was mad and sad and angry, but still, like, empathizing with Clayton. And the fact that Clayton couldn't match the energy and decided to be a dick made it look extra worse. Because, like, Susie was giving Clayton the playbook of how to respond to me, just, like, say the same thing. Hey, I'm frustrated that you feel this way, but I feel this way. And I wish we could like say the same thing hey i'm frustrated that you feel this way but i feel this way and i wish we could get on the same page and i wish you didn't feel this way i know you do

what are we going to do about it type of stuff and he was just like he's flipped a switch and and yeah listen we've had these conversations when a when a giant man flips a switch it just presents is more scary uh and problematic uh than the other way around and clayton was clearly at least at best unaware of how it's going to look and to your point like we we all hope it's not like what what are you going to do when you're when you don't have 16 cameras on you uh and you aren't like and i'm sure the producers weren't like hey well don't be angry you know like and and i don't know he he definitely chose to to act that way he should have just gone off to the fantasy suite by himself and had a wank he would have felt a lot better yeah taking that key and lock the door before i'm out a lot more cheery before the fantasy suite uh before

the suzy fight i was like watching it and because like once you get to this point there's this it happens every season there's there's a part of the audience that is like this is the bachelor this is what we signed up for we all know there's a fantasy suite you know this is how it works and then there's people who watch it who know the rules but they start seeing it more through like their own personal experience of like dating in the world today right and like oh that's i've had a guy do shit like that or uh that i recognize that behavior right and so during fancy sweet week before how he, when he got angry at Susie, when Clayton, there's like a reason why The Bachelor historically doesn't say, the way he was doing it, like,

I'm falling in love with you. I love you. It was just, it just came across as like, in real world terms, it came across like a fuck boy. If you're watching it, it just looked looked like and you have an experience of like watching a guy going like he's on a dab right and you're like yeah i dated a guy like that he told every girl he was in love with them and falling in love and the first girl if he didn't say he was in love with her she wasn't fucking him yeah and it kind of comes across as he's like saying what he needs

to say and even though he's the bachelor, and technically being the bachelor, some people would say, hey, he's just like, this is how the show's set up. And Clayton's kind of operating under this like, well, I guess this is what I get to do. But it definitely comes across as fuck boy behavior because he's in this position of power. He gets to go to everyone.

They're all pining for him. And I believe that he believes it. I believe that he thinks he's falling in love with multiple people. That's what I was going to say, where I feel like he's a real people pleaser. I think we saw that throughout the entire season that he really tries to be present,

make people feel comfortable. And I think this is when you saw the repercussions for that. So he fucks everyone. If he wants to please people, every single one of those people left now wants to be in love. In my 20s, I tried to please everyone. The real people, they let a lot of people down, but I tried to please them. Yeah. It's an impossible. That's the thing. Clayton, when I got to that point, I was thinking about how's this going to end?

I got to start making real world and real life decisions. And Clayton was like, Clayton kind of took the Pilot Pete approach. Hey, I'm in this world. And as long as I'm in the bachelor world, I'm going to act like the bachelor. And real world rules don't apply to me i personally think that's a bit short-sighted but that's how he operated and uh it clearly is backfiring on him are we slut shaming him no like if a female contestant did this would we feel as i have no problem with having sex with multiple people it's the i love you and the sex right no i the even the i love yous i'm just

saying i don't think i don't even have a problem with it i just think that there is going to be a large group of people watching this show that even before he got mad at Susie, they're just going to see a fuckboy because it's just how it comes across. Not that he is. That's what I'm saying. I feel like he's a fuckboy by negligence. I feel like he's a fuckboy and he hasn't been a fuckboy

previously in his life and this is the first time he's had the opportunity. Yeah, there's a little bit of that too. And it's intoxicating having, I can sleep with three women. They're all really into me. I'm into them as well. There's also an element of pressure. The only one who has this

pressure of getting engaged is Clayton. He's probably thinking if I want this to work and I want to get engaged and this is going to be the last person I'm ever with and I have to decide who I'm going to spend the rest of my life with in eight weeks, I'm ever with and I have to decide who I'm going to spend the rest of my life with and in eight weeks I'm going to like use all the time I have to make sure I have the right decision I mean I have no problem with him going about it that way so you didn't end up with the with the

girl you pick now right in hindsight you wish you fucked the other two girls no just ask it no there you have it because you didn't end up with her anyway so i would have made the time uh with my then fiance that much more miserable trying to get through that it you know because even though the way suzy talked everyone believes that they're the one and when you go into that world and you start getting this validation you're thinking there's no way they can feel this way and you want to get engaged and you're everyone thinking if they're going to get engaged it's going to be they all go in thinking the same thing this is crazy this will be fun i get to, maybe get some Instagram followers. And then a couple people at the end

make a connection with the lead. And they start thinking, holy shit, I think I like this person. And then one or two people are like, oh my god, I'm in love. And they think there's just no way they could be feeling this about someone else. So they're

not going to do this shit see i think more heinous than all the sleeping all that type of stuff is the two balconies i love you i'm falling in love and it feels so great because both of those girls believe yeah that they're winning 100 they believe that they're getting engaged because they just had a night where that you know he just laid on a pillow next to him just going, I love you. And they went, I love you. I love you. I fucking love you. I love you.

And they just said it over and over to each other for eight hours, right? In between shagging and eating strawberries, right? And then like that, that what's good more than the sex. That's what screws with your mind. I completely, I completely agree. Do you think think so again it's not a coincidence that clayton was saying these things we all have been talking about like clayton has been incredibly agreeable with people making the show seeing people have referred to him as a puppet

how much criticism do we give clayton like should clayton be mature and and aware enough that even someone's someone whom whoever is saying this to him hey man if you if you're falling in love man just say it man like you're the bachelor does is that give him permission to say it or should he know better that he is messing with these people's hearts and these women that you say that if i say this like his argument to suzy was kind of like the way he talked to suzy he basically was describing him blacking out while having dates with rachel and gabby and then got back to his hotel room and like came to and realized what have i done I'm gonna hurt somebody and I I don't I don't buy it no I don't buy that at all I he's unless Clayton wants us to

think he's like a total idiot and he might not be like the sharpest tool in the drawer I don't know his intelligence level but if that's true he has to be kind of really dense. But it was so funny when he was like, no one forced me to have sex. He was like, I did it because I was in love. He definitely has a very barbaric, aggressive side. He likes to yell, loves to yell. He's a big Viking guy.

He's a big guy. Huge Viking guy. But yeah, I just think even if the producers were like hey man if you're feeling it say it i think it was reckless or stupid i don't know which one you want to go with uh it was one of the two it's either completely reckless or idiotic to think that he could validate uh all three women with both his words and his actions and not be criticized for being reckless with people's feelings how do you think it ends i i don't think this is the last we're going to see of suzy at all do you think we're going to see suzy talking to the other girls i don't know i

think i think i'm allowed there's they've asked me and other Bachelor alumni to participate in the After the Final Rose on Monday night because apparently what we're about to see is so shocking. Like the shockness of the season, it wasn't last night apparently. So this is just the first inning, the first quarter. Threesome. He's going to ask Rachel. I don't know what the fuck he's about to do. It's like, what's going ask Rachel. I don't know what the fuck he's about to do.

It's like, what's going to happen? I don't know what the fuck he's about to do, but it's not going to be, is my understanding, as simple as him going to Gabby and Rachel at the roast ceremony. We've seen that before. When one of the three people from Fantasy Suites goes home, the lead walks out and says, you know, so-and-so is no longer with us for whatever reason but i still see love in front of me and my wife is still here and

will you both accept these roses and then they it's not i don't think it's going to be that clean at all uh i would i'd be shocked if it's the last we see of suzy because suzy seems like his favorite and and to your point jim clayton reacted like a dick and you know most people even if you like yeah in the real world you might get you might fight me like the next day you're like i'm sorry babe or whatever i'm sorry honey or and you're still a dick but you have to apologize for that but a lot of people like will calm down and realize that they've, you know, got angry.

So you think there's a pilot Pete Maddy situation where he just says the two girls and then they, they show footage of him flying out to see her or going to see her father. I don't know if we're, I think it's all going to happen. She has, I mean, so when someone gets sent home,

they just go back to their hotel room. So the final, the final four basically don't go home until the season's done airing for purposes of avoiding spoilers. Right. And the final three, when they're all in Iceland, all definitely stay in Iceland until it's done,

again, for spoiler purposes. And then after they get engaged, they all fly on the same plane together? That must be awkward. No. No, they don't. They actually all take different flights to wherever they go. They're all on different flights to avoid, again, like spoilers and things like that.

And so whatever happens, Susie is going to be sitting in a hotel room. So if either of them are like want another chance or want to talk after emotions calm down, they will definitely be given that opportunity. So I suspect there will be some version of that. And what happens after that, I think, is going to be part of this mess. And if you're Gabby and Rachel and you're watching this, you're just like... Gabby's got no chance. Yeah.

Oh, I don't see it at all. Delightful person. Not delightful. Not Clayton's wife in any world. I don't see the connection at all. I like Gabby. I think she's. Oh, I think she's great.

Great girl. She's got a lovely personality. She'd be a TV host. I think she's funny and, you know what I mean? But I don't. I don't see it between the two. Don't see it between the two of them. And it's like when she

had to sit down she just goes I just want you to know that like I have feelings and blah blah blah and then he's like it's so great like that you don't

have to be goofy all the time stop calling the girl goofy she's trying to have a chat with you you can be serious and she probably goes up to the

go to the bathroom slips on a banana peel and fucking you know what I mean? But she's only the I'm falling in love with. So Rachel's going to win if someone's going to win. Win. But I think he goes home with nobody.

I think he goes back. He tries to get Susie and she tells him to fuck off and the other girls don't want to be second banana and then that's the end. It's just crazy because I thought Rachel was wifey for the whole season. I've just been watching it being like, Rachel obviously wins.

And then the date that he took her on, like with the volcano situation, that was one of the coolest dates we've ever seen. I feel like that's the kind of date that you take someone. I think it was between like Susie and Rachel, but I still thought Rachel was going to come out ahead, which is why I was so surprised. Susie getting the last date had, well, with her having her point of view on sex, it was just as much of that than her being the front runner, but she also could have been both. But historically the front runners gets the last date,

but it's hard to, it's hard to say. But yeah, ever since Rachel, Susie's been playing catch-up, though, and has caught up to Rachel the whole time. But I don't see if your Rachel or, I mean, Gabby, we don't think he's going to pick Gabby anyways, but it would be a tough pill to swallow. Especially after he said, I love you the most to Susie in their fight.

Yeah. I love you the most. It's a weird thing to say. I say that to my children. I make them fight again. I love you, but I love this one the most. Colton kind of, there is Colton vibes in this moment,

not because of sex, but like Cassie just left and to colton credit he was like this is my person and i'm gonna chase you down and you know kind of kind of weirdly forced her to pick him but nevertheless he at least didn't try to pivot and convince himself or anyone else that he was willing to take, you know, seconds. He,

you know, it was like the bachelor's not allowed to really express themselves until the end. But like Clayton was caught off guard. You saw, and that's the thing. And that's why we are get critical of his anger because in that moment he was off script.

Not that there's a script, and I'm not saying the show's scripted, but there's definitely beats and he gets prepared for conversations and topics that he thinks he's going to have. And he was definitely caught off guard by Susie's reaction and her questions. And then Susie saying she wants to leave.

And we saw the real honest, like, fuck this. This is who I was going to pick. And now she's leaving or doesn't want to get wants to leave. And we saw the real honest, like, fuck this. This is who I was going to pick. And now she's leaving or doesn't want to get engaged to me. And we saw that real reaction. So the anger seemed to be very authentic. And him saying, but I love you the most, was not something he probably should have said. But he was just panicking and expressing himself.

And we got a very honest uh sentence from from clayton which is that suzy was the person he was planning on picking he can't end up with the other two girls because the other two girls won't have any dignity if they if they stay after seeing him do that they just can't even if you know like that girl i love I love you. And then he's like, I love you the most. Oh, no, you can't. He ends up with no one. He ends up with no one. As someone who's been the bachelor,

I still don't see how people can fall in love with three people, let alone two. And like matter of days, I just, I don't, I don't get how he can say that to Gabby outside of a car, as cringy as it was, but act like he's really like, I really want to say this. It's so dissonant. I don't see it.

I don't know how people can. I know other people disagree, but I don't. I find it kind of... I feel like he's caught up being The Bachelor and taking advantage of being The Bachelor. And he's almost like... He's convinced himself this is how he really feels because he's caught up in this world. But I don't totally buy it. I'm really disappointed in Colton.

If I ever see him on a balcony, though, I am going to go, I'm falling in love. And it feels so good. It feels so good. He's going to get that a lot, I think. Who would we rather see be the Bachelorette, Gabby or Susie? Susie. Gabby.

It's two very different choices. You have Gabby, the more of a, hey, listen. Fun. 2022, fun, sex positive. And then Susie, more of the traditional conservative family values. I like both. I won't be disappointed with either. And why is Rachel not in the running? Because I think Gabby and Susie just have better storylines.

It's nothing against Rachel. It has more to do with the other two. Yeah, because I feel like she was always so framed within Clayton. The fact that they had such a strong connection, we didn't really get Rachel's personal narrative as it existed without Clayton throughout the season. Is that what you mean? Yeah, I think Gabby has that kind of Caitlin Bristow comp.

Yes. And Susie. You know what's good about Gabby? The family's good. The family's good. Or grandpa. The grandpa alone. You will the grandfather back out.

And he's like that. And the daddy came. And, you know, the signs and that type of stuff. They're going to be a good family to put on telly. I'll tell you what, though. This was a big moment

for Susie, though. This was like Bachelorette kind of catapult moment. Susie's dad's going to kill Clayton. Was he the one

that touched on the shoulder? No, that was Rachel's dad. Rachel's dad's going to kill Clayton. Yeah, kill Clayton. Because he seemed like he might at least know some guys

in the mob. Oh, 100%. There should be like a dad's tell-all episode. Yeah, because Rachel's mom was loving being on telly. She was like, oh, and you're in love? Oh, this is so exciting. Oh, like that. The dad's like, fucking TV.

And then he was like this, I'll touch you on the arm. Yeah. I really loved Rachel's dad. I thought he was great. All right, so Who would you rather have As a best friend Obviously Gabby Honestly

You want Susie And I like I have so much respect For Susie I think Susie's fantastic I won't be disappointed With Susie But I want Gabby

But it's just been A little while Since we've had someone Like quirky boppy Like alien weird Yeah but Katie was Allegedly quirky boppy And that did not end well

She didn't play out that way. Yeah. But that's how she was sold to us. I don't think she was that, yeah. I think I'm more Susie because Susie comes across as this, like, quiet, demure person. But every time she's put in a moment, she kind of, you know, you had the hometown's new jitsu you know karate whatever jiu-jitsu and then like she whatever you whether you agree or disagree with her point of view on sex she handled herself awesome stood up for herself she had some you know fight to her and

i think there's more to suzy and i think you you want a bachelorette that can kind of keep showing you more layers and you know and maybe you we can see that with Gabby too but I feel like with Gabby we kind of we're gonna have a fun quirky thing you know and maybe there'll be more and I think she'll be great but I wonder if there's Susie's be she's continued to show us more and she has to be curious about learning more I feel like Susie's like the teacher and if Gabby were the bachelorette it'd be like the sub. You know like you don't know

what's going to happen. Is she going to be able to control the class? Is she not? Like we have no like she's an absolute wild card. I agree that Susie is like confidently capable.

But I think Gabby could be a great bachelorette too because she'll be fun. She'll get a she'll be she'll be willing to get a little messy. It'll

there'll be some drama. I think it'll be fine either way. I think it's been a wonderful season this season. I've really enjoyed it. It's been a big comeback year. Jim, always a pleasure. Come and see me perform somewhere. Check out.

Yeah, where are your shows? I don't know. Go to jimjeffries.com. jimjeffries.com. There's going to be a podcast. I don't know about that. Thank you for coming back on. The people love you on this show.

Oh, I'm in Vegas this weekend. There you go. There you go. Vegas. I I'm in Vegas this weekend. There you go. There you go. Vegas. I'm going to Vegas this weekend. There you go. If you want to come. But I'm performing at the Mirage in Vegas on Friday and Saturday

in Salt Lake City on Sunday. There you go. That's where I'm going to be this week. It's a great show. You're 69, but that still has me crying. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's hysterical.

So check out jimjeffries.com. Check out all his shows. Jim, we hope you come back. The people love you on this show. Thanks for having me. Don't forget to listen tomorrow for our guest Ashley Green

and Mediation with Nick and Danielle from Love is Blind 2. You won't want to miss that. So see you tomorrow.