The Viall Files - E396 Susie Evans 1 on 1: Going Deeper

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

Today we are joined by Susie Evans directly from tonight’s After the Final Rose from HELL! On this episode of Going Deeper, we ask Susie all the hard questions and dive way deeper into this insane season’s drama. We get Susie to give us a timeline of what happened after that night in Iceland, what the cameras didn’t capture, and what changed after she left. We also get her thoughts on Gabby & Rachel’s heartbreak and seeing the fallout of Clayton saying he “loved her the most.”  We also ask about how Clayton has grown since the season, how Susie is happy to end this relationship at any time if it isn’t working for her, and how her sliding into his DMs blossomed into a relationship. We then go to a mediation where a couple is looking to heal from cheating. They wonder how they can move on and not instigate each other with his past discretions. We break down what each person's expectations should be, boundaries they need to set and how to manage the risk of trusting again. We end the show asking Susie where she is in her relationship with Clayton as she shares that she really wants them to do a pulse check and continue to talk realistically about their future and not just get engaged. “He realizes that this is bigger than just our love story”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:  Wondery: Follow Even The Rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @bachelorabc @susiecevans See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to our fourth episode this week wow it's been a journey and it's only tuesday well it will be oh wednesday correct but yeah yeah who's counting well we have an episode for you coming up i feel like it's the episode that you've been waiting for all week we didn't know who we were going to get we have two bachelorettes now we i don't know if you know this but we were told that we were going to get the most angry person. It's me. She's livid. I'm so pissed.

And, well, I suspect at this point Rachel and Gabby seem very happy. Probably happy. We are happy to have you. We have a lot of questions. First, I just want to say thank you for coming. Absolutely. You came just from AFR. It was hard to watch.

Very emotional. We got to find out about you and Clayton being together. I want this conversation to be fun. We want to get to know you more. We're going to have some tough questions, I assume. We want to get to know you more. We're going to have some tough questions, I assume. But hopefully this will be an opportunity for you to fully tell your story,

how you got to be where you are right now with everything that happened and unfolded with your journey on Clayton's season. I appreciate that. Are you ready to go? Yeah, I'm ready. We are just big fans of you. Uh, I think you, you,

as far as like just looking at how you handle yourself throughout the season, you were obviously were a fan favorite. Um, you handled adversity very well, uh, especially with, uh, Clayton.

I mean, I guess we can just start there in terms of, uh, leading up to breakup. Number one with Clayton, I mean, I guess we can just start there in terms of Leading up to Break up number one with Clayton going into that night Because I feel like you know, that's people on both sides of the fence on that argument totally from my perspective. I Loved how you handled yourself in that moment. I don't know I I tweeted at the time that I thought Clayton was being a dick.

Thank you. I actually heard it went on longer than what we got to saw. It was a little even more intense than what we got to saw. Yeah. And I think tonight, having you confront Clayton, it was really empowering to see you articulate your feelings so well. I feel like a lot of women related to that feeling that you had of him kind of turning on you and you kind of saw a different person. Yeah, but I loved it, too, because there's so many conversations with The Bachelor and, well, you know what you signed up for.

Totally. so many conversations, you know, with the bachelor and well, you know what you signed up for. And then I've having been in that, that, in those shoes, I always tell people, you don't know what you signed up for until you're like in it. Yeah. But whatever you have the right to feel how you feel and Clayton had the right to feel how he felt about sex and dating. Yeah. I'm always of the opinion that the bachelor or the bachelorette is in a position of power and when you're talking about upfront expectations when it comes to sex and dating and that if anyone sure would you have avoided that confrontation had you prior to that date set that up for an expectation with clayton as he wanted you to do sure but

my opinion was that the lead, it's more on them since they're the ones who are kind of in control to like check in. But I guess my question to you is, were you anticipating, like, what was your goal of that conversation? You were the last one, the last fantasy suite. You got to see Gabby and Rachel come in. You obviously planned on talking about it, but what was your expectation going into that conversation? Did you think there's a good chance you might break up? Did you kind of tell yourself, I think he might've slept with at least one of them? What was your thought process there? Yeah, that's a great question. And also I feel like I'm just saying, thank you. Like when you tweeted that out, like obviously I'm with Clayton and I don't think we were like physically together but at first he was

like what the heck and I'm like but you were like you you kind of were and we've like we can laugh about it now and also especially I kind of want to like preface this whole thing with like especially now that Gabby and Rachel are the bachelorette. I'm like, it's four months post everything. Hindsight's 20-20. I'm glad everyone's happy. And I can be candid and happy now because if not, this would be really hard. But to answer your question, yeah, I came to terms with whichever direction that conversation was going to go. I was very much just trying to be level-headed. I know how I feel. If he's in love with somebody else, I don't want to share his love. And I kind of thought he was.

I went into that week under the assumption that I just don't think it's me. Like I can see the way he looks at Rachel. I can see the way he looks at Gabby. Like and I know them. And it is hard. It's hard not to be in your head. It's hard not to think about those relationships developing separately and wondering if what you have is equally special and so I kind of just knew at that point I was like I want Clayton to either know

or I'm not really willing to put myself through this anymore like that's where I was at and I even felt I was like, and if he does know that it's me, and he's taking these relationships to the next level, then like, that's not what I want. Because yeah, like you said, he is in a position of power. And he has an opportunity to protect me protect our future relationship. If it's me that he sees, then then yeah, show me that. and I do realize now like every single one of us had a different opinion about fantasy suites and Gabby and I knew that we felt different about it actually so and she has you know respected my opinions the whole the this whole journey and even

after the show you know we've talked and she's like it's great that we feel different we're different people but yeah I came to terms with whatever the outcome was of that conversation. You can't help but order your end when it comes to fantasy suites. And obviously I wish I'd had that conversation before, but I also just, I didn't, I didn't even think that I would have to, like, I was like, if he's my person, like he's going to, we're going to be on the same page and it's all going to be good. And if, if I'm not, then like he's found that with somebody else and I'm happy for him. And neither of those were true. Like it couldn't have gone more different. What did we not get to see? That's a good question. Um, well, we both, we sat there for a long time, both of us.

I would say Clayton as well. I could tell that, I wouldn't say empathetic, but I think that he was sitting there and I could see the panic and I could feel the panic in myself. And I was like, oh shit, like this is not what I expected. And I could just feel this energy coming from him. I could see it on his face, this realization that he made this assumption and that he just he had no clue. Like I felt like he was like maybe naive in the moment to think that this would be a conversation that would come up about fantasy suites. And I think we were both naive, if I'm being honest, in that moment.

So, yeah, we did sit there for a long time and we went back and forth. And Clayton asked me, what is it about me becoming physically intimate that, you know, is hurt or, you know, you can't get past? Were you surprised by that question? I guess I thought about it, but in the context, yeah, I was. I think I was. I was like, kind of, what do you mean? What do I mean? Yeah, exactly. That's what I would ask. Yeah, I guess so. Our biggest criticism of Clayton has been, and just watching it back, and we had him on our podcast. I've talked to him a little bit offline. He seems like a really nice, well-intentioned guy. Totally.

I can vouch. That being said, if I tried to understand and explain to anyone who had no opinion of Clayton or not, it's just that, and we talked about this with Allie, it's that he seemed to take being the bachelor so literally. And it was like, I'm the bachelor. I get to be the bachelor. And this is like the only expectation you seem to have of the women is you know what you signed up for type of thing

and it's like even hearing you say that that was his question to you is like what about me hooking up with the people bothers you like right listen we're in a world where hookup culture exists yeah people aren't as conservative with sex. But like just that question almost sounds like why can't you empathize and understand with Susie without even having to ask? Yeah. And is that what you were wondering and thinking? Because I'm just wondering that when you when you mentioned that. Yeah.

I think that's super fair. And I remember thinking I was like, I see your perspective. I actually, I see it more than I thought I would have because he genuinely did believe that he was in love with all three of us. And I think the best way to say that is deep feelings. And you probably had the feelings that you get when you're falling in love, that same, it's a, but that's a feeling where this is where like my rational brain comes in and Clayton gets so frustrated with my rational side but he loves it too and he's like I appreciate it he's like I always wanted a rational woman he's like you're too

rational but this is that's where my rational brain comes in I'm like yeah I love maybe it starts with the feeling and parts of it are it's feeling. But like I was always taught by my mom. She's like, love is a choice. It's an active choice. You nurture it. You grow it. You protect it. And Gabby even said something similar to that.

You know, when you accept when you take on love, you accept responsibility for somebody. And that's been one of the biggest like growing moments for Clayton and myself is like defining love and what that looks like through the whole process. But yeah, I mean, for me in that situation, I'm like, I can't get engaged to somebody who's in love with somebody else or who's been physically intimate with somebody else. And Clayton's perspective was, I can't get engaged to somebody who I've not explored that version of that portion of my relationship with and both are valid both are totally valid and he sees that now too but when he was in that moment as the bachelor I think I think he saw the process and understood the process and he had

never seen a previous season which I was like oh that was mistake number one first mistake right there um but then on top of that I think he just he told me this on our first one-on-one he said if you're a good person you're gonna be okay and I was I thought it was such like sweet advice but also maybe a little naive and yeah it's almost like that was his problem yeah Yeah. He's just, he's genuinely, I swear, like, I know people are ripping us right now, but I'm like, I swear he is such a sweet, kind-hearted person in this crazy world right now. I think he's very well-intentioned. Totally. I just think he, again, I don't mean to speak ill of your boyfriend, and I think I like the guy, and I want to be there to help him out if he ever wants my help if he ever needs my help but I it from where we stand now it seems like he just has some maturing to do in that department when it comes to putting himself in other people's

shoes yeah and you know Kay Layton is a good looking athletic guy. He's relatively young and it kind of almost comes across as someone who's like his whole life has easy street for the most part, you know? And like, why, because he, because how do you become a well-intentioned person who seems to struggle so much in the moment to say,

let me put myself in their shoes for a moment before having to ask, because I do think it's almost like he, he thought as long as I have the best intentions, everything will be OK. Kind of like you said, and that's not that's not going to happen if you if you have different agendas and different points of view and come from different walks of life. Right. You're going to run into like obstacles and challenges. you're going to run into like obstacles and challenges. And it seems like that's, it's interesting to hear you say that because I feel like that explains a lot. If you haven't been listening to Janet Jackson's Even the Rich episode, well, you are missing out. From wondering even the witch pulls back the curtains on the lives of the rich and famous and takes a peek at the wild world of celebrity in an all-new

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The one thing that has really surprised me because I also, this is one of the questions I constantly ask Clayton and we laugh about it now because it got lost in translation on the show, but I asked him this question of like, how do you handle adversity? Like we're in this bubble right now. We're in this perfect bubble. We have these great dates. What's going gonna happen when like shit hits the fan like who are you in those moments that's important to me he's like one of three boys like he grew up with around boys he grew up in in football and in that like I guess that environment and he hasn't I don't I

don't know how long it's been since he's had a girlfriend. I think it's like been five years or something. And I'm like, sometimes I'm like, maybe you should have like brushed up on some of like your, like being more fine tuned to that like emotional side. And I think maybe that's where some of that growth has to come. Like I would never say Clayton's had it super easy because now knowing his heart and knowing his darkest stuff, I'm like, oh, he's been through some serious stuff.

And he has worked through it. But yeah, being a little bit more in tune with that emotional side, I think, is maybe more what we're seeing and where he has grown. And even with me as his girlfriend now, I'm like, we're're gonna do some learning today open your textbook yeah when Clayton told you that he was in love with you on

the first breakup date it almost seemed like from our point of view that you seem a kind of caught off guard totally you've watched the show before yeah yeah? Yeah. So you kind of knew, just doesn't happen. Mm-hmm. Have you ever asked Clayton, what does love mean to him? Because it seems like he would say the word. From our standpoint now, we still really don't know what it means to him. He's said it to a lot of people. He never really articulated it with anyone. Yeah.

You've been dating him for a while now. Have you had conversations with him and you know about what it means to you like what are those kind of conversations you've had with him since then to get a better understanding of like now that he says it like can you trust it because right you might it might be harder to do uh yeah we've had a lot of conversations about love and on the show he asked his mom he told his parents he was in love with three people. And they were like, not possible. You can't be in love with three people.

And they, he asked his mom, well, what does it mean to you? And she said, you know, love is not being as like, you can't live without somebody. And that's a little dramatic for me. Like, I understand the sentiment. I'm like, oh, that's like so beautiful. And like, that's probably how she feels about her husband. And like, I hope, you know, I'm like, I hope to find that kind of love where somebody's like, oh, I can't see my life without you. That's, that's great. But I also like, like we were talking earlier, I think that's where my brain is a little bit more like, it's not just a feeling,

like it's an, it's an action, it's a choice. It's much more than that. And like Clayton and I have talked a lot about that because I'm like, it's not just about who makes you feel the happiest. It's not just about who brings you joy. And he's also learned that as well, that love takes, it takes nurturing, it takes action. And I think for him, like, right now, maybe he does, I know, he's like, I can't imagine my life without you. Like he has that big, passionate, like, overwhelming love for me. And, and I feel it. And I feel it in his actions. And I feel it in the way he treats me and talks to me. But I can also say like, without a doubt, post show, we've been super open about everything. And it's like, he has worried and thought about

Gabby and Rachel and worried for them through this process. So I'm like, I think he had love for them as people. And he probably had those feelings that you get when you fall in love. And I think he like he's's even said, he's like, I was so confused. Yeah. I mean, I. Super confused. I think he confused what it meant to be in love versus like having chemistry or a connection or a bond, which I don't doubt. He had those with all three women.

It was just, to me, it seemed like a, like a 16 year old version of falling in love for the first time. Or it was like, I guess if I were 16 and I met multiple people, I'd probably be like, is this, I think I love them all. Like that was the enduring version of, of trying to explain. And I think, you know, when you're the bachelor, it's become a tougher and tougher gig in terms of the expectations that come with it. But, um, yeah, it's tough. A couple of things I want to talk to you about. I want to give you the option to pick in which order. Okay. I'd love to have you walk us through like that timeline between

when you left Iceland to when you DM'd and go from there and then I want to talk a little bit about AFR and the conversations that Rachel and Gabby had with Clayton. Which one do you want to do first? One's fun and one's not so fun. Will we end on a fun note?

Sure. Okay. We can end on a fun note. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk. We'll talk about the timeline first, and then we can talk about those conversations because they were, you know,

applaudable and important. So let's do the fun one first okay yeah so you slid into clayton's dms slid right in how long how long how you're very likable thanks uh it's the line how how how much time had passed? Okay, so I got my phone back, called my parents, DM'd Clayton. I was in the Newark airport. But I wasn't, I should have said this tonight because, you know, people want to know. Thank God you didn't. We want the exclusive.

You got the school. Yeah. So I didn't DM him with the intention of starting a relationship. But I was like, are you okay? And I will respect your boundaries, whatever they are. But if you want to have one more candid conversation, here's my phone number. Give me a call. And that night he called me and we talked for like five hours and we were like, we joke and we're like, we were comparing notes.

This was like the day you got back then. Yeah, the day I got back. So right away. Yeah, I wasn't mad at Clayton. I was never mad at Clayton for like anything ever because I was like, I do not envy your position. I don't know that I could have done better. I totally understand. I think you could have done better. Well, you never know. I know. I don't know that I could have done better. I totally understand. I think you could have done better. Well, you never know. I don't know. But, you know, in his, from his, I don't know, it's like,

he, I just, yeah, I mean, I knew at the end of the day, leaving Iceland, I was like, you're a good person. And I guess what, you know, to also like follow up your other question with like what we didn't see was like Clayton has mentioned this before. Because I was so set in my ways on the night that we first broke up, he, you know, when we both go our separate ways, you get in your head, you have conversations and, you know, you throw out what you're thinking. And one of the things was, you know, does she just want to be the next bachelorette? Did she just come here to get famous and didn't care about like disregarding my feelings? He got that in his head and he believed it. And that's where that flip switched. So, because I was like, what the, what the hell happened out there? You know? And we weren't able to have, when he got mad and he flipped. Yeah. And so like, that's why a big part of me leaving Iceland alone, I was like, this is for me, you know, like, I don't know what

you're going to do, but I'm going to take care of myself and, uh, get out of here while I can. And, um, I, and I felt horrible. It was not an easy decision. I knew I was going to make that decision, but it, it, it felt horrible. Um, so yeah, when I reached out to him, I was just like, hey, like, we fight or if you're to have a fight with somebody in an argument? But we were able to really get to the bottom of that and be like, okay, this is what you understood to be your truth in that moment. And not that it warrants the way he treated me, but I have grace for like that mentality of like, like he genuinely was like, have grace for like that mentality of like, like he genuinely was like, you obviously just don't care about me. And yeah. And I think he thought that was going to be a moment of like, like I'm taking back control of like my love story. I'm not going to let you hurt me. And,

and that was, we both realized now it's like, that couldn't be further from the truth. Like we both cared a lot about each other. You know, you think about the versions of The Bachelor versus The Bachelorette. The audience watches it differently. I can see Clayton's thought process of almost even thinking... I don't even think he was having kind of a this is going to look good on TV moment. No, not at all.

But I do think he thought... Even if he did, it's human. I don't think that was it, no. I do think he thought he was taking his power back. I mean, the show talks about who's here for the right reasons. It's the

trope of the show, and so if Clayton thought that, he probably felt justified in his anger. And maybe didn't, it doesn't make it okay, no, but like it certainly explains and helps you understand the logic, I guess, a little bit more. It gives perspective. really understood that as well. I was like, like, okay, I, I, I understand. I guess I get why you were so, yeah, it was like feeling heartbreak, betrayal. It's, we probably felt, I mean, I don't know if he, if, if you're going through that and that high stakes of a situation, like it probably

felt like the world was like crashing in on you. And he even had said, you know, a couple weeks prior when other people kind of got exposed for different issues in the house. And he's like, people are sabotaging my relationships. People like, you know, people are straight up lying to my face. And like, he experienced so much like manipulation and betrayal on that journey that that moment for him, he was like the person I thought like I could trust like he always he said he was like I thought I could trust you of everybody like you you've never given me a reason to not trust you and you've all people have like you know had this switch so when we were able to like get to the bottom of that I was like okay I still didn't dive into a relationship but I was like okay I've got context I'm understanding a little bit more about your headspace.

Did you ask him? Because like from our perspective, when you had the fight before Fantasy Suites, you left. Yeah. And when he showed up again with a ring, that felt very fast. Oh, yeah. So not only did he get over the fear that you weren't there for the right reasons or you wanted to be the bachelorette, he also got around what he had originally said of i'm not going to get engaged with someone without being physically intimate with them so did you ask him how like in 48 hours multiple of those

kind of rules had changed right he went to talk with gabby and rachel and before he ever spoke with me he had made that decision he had he had expressed like hey i'm going to be breaking up with these women because it's it's unfair to them at this point. But just like, you know, the way things have to happen. I came to meet him again when I was in Iceland, not with the intention of restarting a relationship. Before he broke up with Gabby and Rachel before you ever spoke to him? No, no, no. But he has, you know, written that in his journal.

Like it was, we literally have like shown each other journals but yeah he's like I've made the decision like this is my decision has been made and um then he spoke with me and then yeah he he broke up with the girls but he had made that decision before even speaking to me just because um he knew yeah he knew where his heart was at and he he knew that was like the like the fairest I guess way to move forward at that point and and he did reiterate to me he was like this is not like he's like I know you're gonna feel the pressure but this is not to pressure you into making any decision and he did reiterate that and even though I did feel pressure but I was like like, he also was like, I will respect whatever decision. Like he came to full terms.

Like I'm leaving here alone. Like I might be leaving here alone, but like, I'm going to give this, I'm going to do this the best way I know how to do. And it's not to leave with Gabby or Rachel. Cause that's not fair. And, um, yeah, he, he's told me and like, he's written it. I've seen it in his journal. Like he really came to terms with, he's like, I might just be like leaving here alone.

And that was all before he talked to me or spoke with Gabby and Rachel. When you showed up for this proposal-ish, like did you sense that he was going to try to propose or have a ring? I mean, you're wearing a white gown. How did it all happen? Were they like, put this on type of thing? Because you had already left the show and then we weirdly met his parents, loved that you were just like, hey, maybe we should talk.

I don't know. That was all just kind of weird. I don't put that fully on you guys, but what happened that you got all, you guys, but like how, how, what happened that you got all, you got ready for the ball quite literally. And, and then, uh, what, what was your anticipation walking into that moment? I didn't, well, I knew the other two of men were out of the equation. I was like, okay, he, he has told me that he has sent them home. I was like, okay, he has told me that he has sent them home.

I didn't know. So I picked this dress out for an engagement prior in the week and did not know that I was going to a rose ceremony or like an engagement type thing. And Clayton even, like he will say, I'm going to say it now, like he had the ring, but he's like, I had no intention of proposing unless you were going to say to me, like, you are the one I have, like, you know, he's like, and he's, he is very aware of that, where he's like, I did not go into that rose ceremony thinking that you were going to even take me back. He's like, I went in full on knowing, like, I'm probably leaving here alone today. And yeah, he, he had the ring with him, but he didn't get down on one knee.

He didn't propose, but the ring did make an appearance. And he wasn't going to propose unless there was that full circle moment. And he wasn't expecting that, but he was ready. And he even says now, he's like, I get down on one knee tomorrow. I'm like, he wasn't expecting that but he yeah he was ready and he even says like now he's like i get down on one tomorrow i'm like please don't let's give this a driver stay standing no we joke we like joke about it now like i say like we're four months past it so like we can laugh at these moments now but like we also realize the heaviness of like the situation for other people but we are in a good place where we can laugh through those things so how'd you go from having a all-night conversation and comparing notes to being together being together like what was that next step we talked uh for a long time

several weeks we were going back and forth uh phone calls every phone call we were like oh my gosh what like what just uncovering more stuff we're just like this is crazy um but also we talked a lot about like we didn't talk about becoming boyfriend and girlfriend on those phone calls um we talked about a lot of things though that would let us know like where our compatibility lies as far as like what we're looking for for the future what we're looking for in a partner. We had these like really deep conversations that we stayed on the phone for like five hours every night for weeks, just talking with no expectation, no like, what is this? You know, we didn't have that conversation over the phone. I think there are people speculating that

you guys could be together. There are people speculating about possibly you being the next Bachelorette. Do you think that and I know Gabby and Rachel are the next Bachelorette, but do you think that it might have been an option for you if you

were single? I'm just asking your opinion. My opinion? I don't know. if it had been switched somehow we know the way it happened with gabby and rachel no let's say you just never dm'd i never dm'd clayton maybe they'd have a three bachelorette no i'm just kidding i don't know i nobody ever talked to me about it and um there was no pressure to do anything after the show for me everybody i i was like i'm on my own if they truly wanted you to be the bachelorette they they could have made it impossible well difficult totally uh yeah for you guys to

reconcile not impossible yeah they could have uh they didn't they didn't try to stop you guys to reconcile. Not impossible, but they could have, they didn't try to stop you guys from being together at all, it sounds like. No. And then I'm assuming after you guys are hanging out, just kind of at what point, who asked Sue to be boyfriend and girlfriend? Did that conversation happen? Yeah, I asked Clayton to be my boyfriend. You did? Yeah.

Because after a certain point, we were like, okay, what are we doing? Is this, are we going to pursue something? And yeah, we had, we did. We had this really great conversation where I opened up to Clayton about something I've really never shared publicly about one of my biggest, like, insecurities and in a relationship and like something I'm fearful of. And I was like, this is like what I'm afraid of. And, um, and I take it serious. You know, like I really opened up to him about something and his response was just so genuine. And like in that moment, I was like, wow, like this man

loves me. Like he really does. And I had this moment where I was like, it was just like a really big moment for us in the way that he responded to me opening up about that, you know, feeling where I was like, first of all, you know, I've seen a lot of growth from him. I've seen him not just from the process, but like post-show, like I've seen him, like I've told him my needs. I've been like, hey, this is what I need if this is going to work. And like, he has shown up in those ways. And like, yeah, that conversation was like a point for me where I was like, OK, like I think I want Clayton to be my boyfriend. So I was like, I always joke of like I asked him, but like I did. I was like, OK, so like, do you want to be my boyfriend? And we laughed about it.

But it was yeah, it was it was me that made that step. Were you discussing the show as it was airing? And as you were seeing these other perspectives that you'd never seen before, what role was that playing with like you and Clayton as you were recultivating this relationship in the real world? Oh yeah. Well, that's a great question. And I want you to answer that, but also timeline wise, because you said four months, were you guys boyfriend and girlfriend before it started airing? Probably around that time. So it was early on. Yeah, it was probably a month or so or a month and a half.

I really don't remember. Okay, and then back to Amanda's question, as it started airing, specifically as things got intense, and then it's always like no matter whether you're engaged or not yeah right it's hard to watch back i mean i've been yeah you know it was hard for vanessa when we were together it's it's hard for anyone to watch these connections oh yeah it's just how messy you like you knew it was messy yeah and and how much did clayton tell you like yeah well go ahead and and answer Amanda's question first.

Kind of like to encompass all of that. Like, I just, I hope people know, like, I do know, I knew what had happened. I knew what took place. One thing about Clayton is that he is transparent and that can get him in trouble. But he, like I said, we sat down with our journals one day when we were just like, let's, you know, let's compare notes. Like where was your head at here and stuff. And there were no, um, surprises. Like we really talked about everything. And he was like, I want to know, like, or I want to make sure before we become something, before we try to make this work, like you need to know where I was at a different time, you you don't need to know he's like if you want to know you can know and

we did we talked about all of those things and so like there were no surprises like I knew he had strong connections he's like you're gonna see this back um and I yeah I knew that was gonna gonna take place but I did watch the season back but I also also was like, I guess, you know, it was better for me to be preoccupied during a certain, you know, episodes or certain things, even like the clock tower thing. Like me being like, again, that comes back to me being on camera. I'm like, oh, it's really just hard to like watch this narrative playback in general because you're like, you know, it's just hard. It's just a hard thing to do. Watch yourself back. Watch the person you love.

Not only fall in love with you, but fall in love with other people. And it's a lot. Like, it really is. So it was better for me not to be, like, hyper-focused on watching it. And so I had some watch parties with my girlfriends. And, like, we would just, like, laugh and have fun and, like, you know, hang out and whatever. And I was like, oh, I can't hear, but it was probably for the best. And then even like, I, I pick up shifts at a restaurant occasionally. And like, there were nights that I was scheduled

to work or whatever, or I picked, I, one time I picked up on a Monday and I was like, it's bachelor Monday. I'm like, why did I do that? And then I'm like, they're working and they've got it on the corner. And I'm like, this is the best way for me to watch this. You were, you were waiting tables while the bachelor was on in the background? Yeah, people had no idea. That's pretty great. Yeah. Wild choice by you, but pretty great.

I don't know if anyone's ever done that. Yeah, the restaurant there, I love where I work. It was a place that I used to hang out before I quit my corporate job last year. And when I quit, I got a job there part time and to do everything else that I wanted to do. But yeah, they've been so supportive. They're like, yeah, Bachelor Mondays. They put it on. It's like it's airing in the restaurant as I'm like, oh, you want more hush puppies? In the bits that you did watch back, what was the one that was the hardest to watch and what was the one that gave you the most joy to see um oh man it was super hard to watch our our night back when we first broke up

that was the hardest part that involved me but then i'm gonna say tonight was the hardest part to watch in general not just yeah watching him know, the breakup with Gabby and Rachel. That broke my heart. And then, yeah, I got to see him on stage with them. And that also was just, it was hard to watch. Did you get to see, well, that was one of my first questions. Did you see all of it? I don't know if I was supposed to, but I did. You got to see everything. Yeah, I did. I don't, I don't know if I'm allowed. Yeah, I did that on my phone. Great. Yeah. So I know what happened. I don't know if I was supposed to. They didn't play it for me on the TV. I don't know if you were supposed to, but you're definitely allowed to say that. Okay. Yeah, I did. Yeah. They can't really. They can't take away your phone now.

That's your life. Sorry. I can see their faces in there. That has nothing to do with production. Okay. Yeah, that was me. So, it must have been hard, obviously, to watch. Yeah. We had a hard time. It was hard for us to understand a lot of things Clayton did.

Totally. When Rachel... I think Rachel's was really tough. I mean, we love Gabby. We thought she was iconic and how she handled everything. Legend. Chef's kiss. But I thought Clayton was going to pick Rachel the whole time. And then there was a moment where I was like, he might pick Susie. You seem like it was like, had it, you know, And there was a moment where I was like, he might pick Susie. You seem like it was like, you know, 1A, 1B. But we saw this connection and Rachel saw it too.

It was really hard to hear him say that in the fantasy suite that he told Rachel that he has never said I love you to anyone else. And not only like, it's one thing to say it, but then you say that other kind of like thing that really reaffirms those words to make it seem extra special, even though it already felt special. Like what was that like for you to hear back? Oh yeah. I mean, knowing it was sad. It was so, it was honestly just sad. Not for not for me but you know like knowing that these other women yeah that was four months ago for all of us but like they have to re-watch this now and the pain is still there you know I don't know if I want to say the pain is still there I don't know maybe it is for them but those feelings are real and valid And it was hard to watch back because, yeah, like Clayton didn't have his mind made up. Fantasy Sweet Week, when he said, I love you the most to me, he wasn't going to share that with me. But in that moment, I think for him, he was like, I see my life with you.

But he believed he genuinely believed that he was in love with each woman. And he, yeah, him saying that, I think he, I mean, I hate to say it, but I mean, I feel like it comes back to like him just thinking like that. I'm just, I'm just, this is normal. Like, I don't know how else to describe it. Like, it's almost maybe a naive, and maybe that's from either not watching previous seasons or just being in over his head. Like he is, and I don't want to throw him under the bus because like he should speak on this more than I should, but he has said, he's like, I wasn't over my head. I was so confused, so confused. And I don't think he, yeah, I don't

think he realized in that moment the damage that that could have and yeah, like what that could mean for somebody. So it was sad to watch back because like Rachel's incredible. She's one of the most wonderful, kind individuals I've ever met. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I imagine it was really tough for her. Do you think Clayton has, we all need to improve. We're never ending projects, all of us. I don't care where you are in your stage of life, but it seems like Clayton, you know, he's like in his late twenties. I think he has some catch I think this is my personal thing and yes, I'm catching up to do maturity wise because Again, we all know you're not gonna get a disagreement for me that he's a well intentioned means well nice guy

Yeah, but it does seem concerning I think for a lot of people and that's what the biggest challenge people have. It's just like it's It's the recklessness. And sometimes it's even scarier sometimes when people are well-intentioned, right? Because it's like, well, shit, man. Like, it's like, what's more dangerous? Like, you know, kind of like naivety, naiveness and stupidity

or just kind of evil intentions. And I don't think he has evil intentions. No, not at all. So it seems like he's has a lot of growing up to do like what do you what would how would you respond to that yeah I think I think that's fair to an extent I also think like we have to remember like the bachelor world is freaking crazy like it is crazy and if you've never crazy. And if you've never seen a season, like you've never seen a season. And he went into this just genuinely thinking. And that's where like the,

I think like maybe the, I hate to say the word naive because Clayton's not naive. He is, and he's super smart, very intelligent. But like maybe the naivety to this environment really came into play. And it doesn't make any of his behavior like excusable, the things that were really hard to watch back. It's like he has a hard time. Like we have watched some of the episodes together and you can just see like he's like, oh, gosh, like what have I done at different times? You know, he like genuinely, he realizes the destruction. He realizes the things that he did that hurt people. And he feels remorse. And like tonight, he said, I've had five years of growth in two months. And he said to me, he's like, I wish I didn't have to go through The Bachelor to get that. But him being thrown into

that environment that really is so complex. And like me going in, I'm like, oh, I've seen the show, first of all, but also just knowing myself. I'm like, oh, I just know this about myself. Like, that's who I am. Like, this is my understanding of who I am. And yeah, maybe he did come into the show with certain things not figured out. And I think he's learned a lot and he's figured a lot out. But what do you think he's learned? Has he articulated that to you?

Yeah, I think he's learned that when you, I think one of the biggest things that he has learned is when you are in a position of power, you hold. It sounds easy to say, but what is that phrase? With great power comes great responsibility. Yeah, it's like he was put in this position and like he really did like he had a lot of responsibility tons of emotions and people's hearts like in his hands and i think he has really learned like the power that he held and he has seen the destruction that came from that. And he is like very remorseful. And he, I mean, yeah, you can see like I told you, like he was worried about Gabby, Rachel, and even Serene at different points. He was just like, even before episodes aired, he was just like, oh, my gosh, like what have I done?

You know, like he had this realization post-show once he took himself out of the environment and he was just like I don't even like he's insane he's like I don't know what was going on at different times and like he is he is aware but it did he's done a lot of growing up and and he and he admits and I'll say it too I'm like we got a long way to go you know like there's and that's not just with like him. That's what, like you said, that's with everybody. We all have, you know, a long way to go. But one thing I will say about him in our relationship is that he takes constructive criticism and I give him a lot. I do.

I just do. I'm like, dude, like if you, I'm telling you, I am. I'm telling you how I need to be loved and what I need from you. And he always takes action on it. Like that is, I've told my parents, I'm like, I've never given so much constructive criticism to a single boyfriend, but I've never, like he has taken it and he has put it into action more than any boyfriend I've ever had. Like he, he wants to grow and he wants to be a good partner. And that is more than I can say for a lot of men.

And that's where like that good intention and that big heart comes in. And you're just like, he is. You see the potential. Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah, like 100%. And even like right now, we are happy. But there, yeah, there is work to be done for sure.

Like we both know that we acknowledge that. But yeah, we're happy. But there, yeah, there is work to be done for sure. Like we both know that. We acknowledge that. But yeah, we're happy. We're having a lot of fun together right now. I mean, that's one thing we were talking about with Allie in our recap episode is that you had all the outs. It would have been very easy for you to not be with Clayton. It's been very easy for you to not be with Clayton. And while some people might not agree with your decision and might not be supportive of your relationship, no one can fault you, and especially you, for, you know, quote unquote, being there for the right reasons, so to speak. Because it's, you know, for all the criticism bachelor people get, their brand and Instagram followers and looking good.

Like, you chose the path of most resistance. Yeah. It's, I'm ready. Oh, yo, I'm just going to be honest. Like, I'm, I knew, I knew it was not going to be well received. And I've been telling Clayton from the start, I'm like, they are not going to be happy for us. Like, they're just not. Like, the way it happened, I'm like, this is going to be well received. And I've been telling Clayton from the start, I'm like, they are not going to be happy for us. Like, they're just not. Like, the way it happened, I'm like, this is going to be, I'm like, we could be the most hated couple in Bachelor Nation.

We really could. And it's still possible. I haven't, I've looked at the internet a little bit. Don't. Yeah, I'm going to try not to. You're like, please don't. I've seen it. I don't know if your boyfriend has told you that we've talked a few times, but he doesn't seem to be taking my advice when I tell him to not fucking read the internet.

Dude. Oh my gosh. Thank you. I've been on, you've been on speakerphone a few times and I always am applauding you in the background. I'm like, listen to Nick, dude.

I'm like, he knows. And yeah. And today you talked to him or yesterday and you said, dude, you got to stay off. And he's like, I've only been on a couple of times.

And I looked at him. I was like, bro, I bro i was like that no you are liar lying i'm like you don't lie about a lot but you're lying about this because he doesn't want people to worry for him but i'm like clayton like you gotta get off because it is it is bad out there and i know it's coming for me now i'm sure it's out there now. I saw a few DMs like, I take back what I said. I'm like, okay, good. I'm glad to hear it. Like, okay. Yeah, you guys can't do that because if you want to make it work,

it won't work if you guys are invested in what people have to say. Yeah, I mean, people aren't going to be rooting for you guys. I commend you. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Someone's taking a drink. Susie and Clayton against the world.

Yeah, I knew it was coming. I've been preparing for it. I mean, I'm not even going to lie. That has been the overwhelming part of this for me because I'm like, wow, people are championing me. They're like, oh, good for you. know, people are championing me. They're like, oh, good for you. But what I can say is that I was not afraid to walk away in Iceland. I'm not afraid to walk away right now. Like I will be in whatever relationship or environment that is good

for me. And I'm not afraid. What would you say? Because like most of the people watch that means it's a very diverse audience, men and women, but it's majority women. And I think a lot of women felt empowered by Gabby, a lot of women related to Rachel. I think you had a lot of amazing moments tonight, especially when you confronted Clayton, when you left you, I think you also made a lot of amazing moments tonight, especially when you confronted Clayton when you left. I think you also made a lot of women feel empowered. What would you say to your critics now who might have said something to the effect that Tyra Banks, we were all rooting for you. And if a young woman or a lady or anyone says, you let me down. young woman or a lady or anyone says you let me down you were you you stood up to Clayton and then you kind of threw it all away what would you say to that person you know what I respect that person because I don't think that they are like coming for me in a mal with malintent of like

yeah I don't think it's people trying to turn on me. But I think, you know, what I would say to them is like, take those moments that maybe I inspired you to walk away from a bad situation. Take those moments and let that empower you. But also know there is more to this story that you will never know. And not that it makes everything okay, the way that it happened. Like, just know it, it doesn't like the way Clayton spoke to me that night, I told him, I'm like, I felt like a stray dog, you know, that I wandered into your house and you're like, get out of here. That was not okay. But like, there is so much more that nobody will ever understand. And, you know, I have to ask like that you have grace for him. But again, just know like I am not afraid.

Like I ruined the show. I turned down the final rose for the first time in history. I felt terrible. I was like, I'm literally ruining this show right now. Like this man is here like confessing his love, like whatever. And when you're there, you think it's the biggest thing in the world. It feels so freaking heavy. But I was like, bye, because I'm not afraid to take myself out of a situation that no longer serves me. And I never, I never have been, I never will

be. And if Clayton and I break up, it, you know, that's because it didn't work out for us. And whether it's he walked away, I walked walked away I'm not afraid to do that like coming out on stage and facing everybody after that was like the scariest part of it all but take take whatever inspired you from those moments and like allow that to empower you because yeah I wasn't I was seeing the same thing that you guys were seeing and I was like what the this is not okay and I was like get me out out of here. And yeah, I have answers. I have, Clayton has, you know, explained a lot more than people will ever understand. And, and don't, yeah, don't let me getting back with Clayton uninspire you. And like,

if you don't want to root for me, like, that's okay. But like, just know, like, I'm happy and, and I'm not going to stay in something that's not good for me. And if I do my, my friends and family will like, they, yeah, they will have something to say about it. I get it though. I get it. They'll never. What are your parents thinking about all this?

Um, well, they know everything as well. And yeah, they, my parents know, like am I'm a I think I'm a really good girlfriend I'm super sweet totally understanding about everything always like I'm like as long as there's no lies no cheating and we want to make this work like I'm cool I'm chilling but they also know like I don't take BS at all. Like that's why in my hometown, they're like, dude, like if you get through her, like you're good. Like we, like she's the toughest one. Like I really am. And it's very believable. I'm not worried about you at all. Like I believe that you're not scared. You, you have this kind of fight to you. Also, I love the

jujitsu. I feel like if you wanted to kill me, you probably could. It's very intimidating. I'm sure. We talked about you with Ally, you and Clayton. Yeah. And there was obviously criticism. Yeah. No, I get it.

Not you. More on your boyfriend. Fair. And one of our things we discussed was, well, I'm not worried about you at all. Because, like, again, you had all the outs. Yeah. But even if I were Clayton's friend, I would say to Clayton to his face, you know, we do our Ask Nicks, we give relationship advice. I'd say my concern for you is you have, that you need to make this work to validate your experience.

I've told him that too. work to validate your experience. I've told him that too. The pressure of, of, of, yeah, the pressure of this relationship working that, and I'm worried that as much as he might have grown, like he's like, I grew five years and three months that like, you can't cheat growth in terms of time sometimes. And that, uh, it seems like you, you're, you might be the best thing for Clayton because you seem very self-aware and willing to like like, as you say, coach him up. And that's great.

But, like, are you ever worried about that? It seems like maybe you addressed that already. Yeah, absolutely. I addressed that. I was super fearful. I was like, were you, did you come back for me because you said you love me the most and you were afraid of how that was going to look? And you're like, well, I have to choose her now. I talked about that. I've asked, you know, we've had the conversation. I'm like, are you afraid of like looking like a, you know, a failure if I,

if we don't end up together? Like, I don't want any of that. I don't want anything to stop. You know, if a breakup is necessary on either end, I'm like, let it be. We, we all know, we saw tonight with Gabby and Rachel, like whatever is meant to be will be, and that was meant for them. So like, they're, they're good. They're happy. They're going to go on and like, that's going to be amazing. So yeah, we have, we've definitely talked about that. And I can, yeah, I can say without a doubt, I mean, this is like an insight to a conversation that we had where I saw growth and I think we realized both of us a little like we both had a really

good realization I had asked Clayton early on like I had asked him I was, if I never reached out or if I, if I reached out, but I never, we never became something, would you still be friends with me? And he was honest and he was like, no, like I couldn't be friends with you. I was not like, I, I would have thought. And he's like, and he says this, he's like, I think you would have like become the bachelorette or whatever. And I'm like, have like become the bachelorette or whatever and I'm like hell no but like but he yeah he's like I think like you know I would have been jaded I would have thought that you played me in this and that and I'm like even watching this back you would have thought that like you and maybe we weren't at the point of watching it back at that point but I was like even after seeing everything you still would have thought that and like at that point he was like yeah like I don't think I could have been friends with you because I would have believed that you like I think still would have thought that. And like at that point he was like, yeah, like,

I don't think I could have been friends with you. Cause I would have believed that you like, I think I would have believed that you played me. And I, it was a couple of weeks ago, I don't know, a month ago maybe. And he said to me, um, like we were just chatting and he was like, I just want you to know, like, you do not have to stay with me through this this is going to be brutal people are not going to be happy for us like people are going to be mad at you and you like I don't expect you to stand with me through this and he's like and if you don't see a future with us together he's like like this is your out, basically. Yeah. And he was like, I can't thank you enough for what you've done for me. He's like, you have helped me so much as a person.

Like, and I mean, I'll let him speak to like the things that we've like brainstormed and talked about and just like worked through as people, not even as like a relationship, but like for him. And he's like I could never thank you enough for what you have done for me and he's like I will like I would be your friend like I will always like love you as a person before anything else and I was like that's a moment of growth you know like he had this like and it was just a candid conversation we had, but I was like, it was a moment for me where I was like, Clayton, you know, realizes that this is like bigger than just his love story, you know? Like this is bigger than just, or not his love story, but our love story.

But it was a moment of growth for me where I was like, it was just a really respectable moment where I was like, it meant a lot for me as a person as well you know outside of our relationship well it was nice to hear him kind of say that in terms of recognizing how challenging it might be and then giving you that yeah he was like I understand because I quite honestly like that that that's a very uh that's that's telling because he could have easily been kind of in his desperation like begging you to like out of fears please don't go please don't bail on me now i need you i think a lot of weaker people would have guilted their partners into like staying and it was that is an admirable quality for him to say it might not him trying to protect you to say this might not be what you signed up for. Yeah.

Was it's that's a very thoughtful thing for him to do. Yeah. It was a moment for me where I was like, that's where that that good intention, that good intention person aligned and met up with the growth that he has had. And I was like, that's where those two things have like intertwined, you know? Susie, you've been so generous with your time. I really appreciate it. And so honest, I know it hasn't been easy. I want to ask what's next for you and Clayton. And I know you guys are going to be in Virginia, but I want to get a little bit more detail before we let you go. But before we do for the people who are tuning in to listen to Susie,

I'm sure there's a lot of new listeners. Thanks for listening. We appreciate subscribe. We do this thing called ask Nick on Mondays and we do a bachelor and pop culture stuff a lot on Tuesday on our, this, this is our going deeper episode. Uh, most, most of the time we'll have our guests mediate a couple's fight with us right now. They'd call in it's late in the night Susie's had a long night, so we're not going to put her through that But we do have a mediation call. It's an intense call with a couple going through a very passionate fight. There's some infidelity

With this one So we're gonna go ahead and play our mediation segment You're not gonna want to miss it so stick around ahead and play our mediation segment. You're not going to want to miss it. So stick around. And then after their mediation call, we're going to get our final thoughts from Susie. What's next for her? What's going on? How does she predict her future with Clayton? Does she see a future with him?

If there is engagement, how long does she want to date? Like now that you're in the real world, do you feel pressure? All those answers coming up after mediation. I've tuned out of podcasts and being on the show because it's, it's overwhelming to hear people discuss you and your dating life. Um, that being said, prior to coming on the show, when I was in the thick of, you know, out on the streets dating out there. And I was in a real dark place, like probably a year and a half ago, whatever. And this podcast, like when I would stress clean my apartment and my room, I would play these.

The Ask Nick's? Oh, yeah. Oh, the Ask Nick's are so good. Like I'm not. Thank you, Sydney. I'm just being for real right now. It is so good. You guys are rational.

I'm like, this appeals to my brain. This really appeals to to me and i've told clayton this when you called him a dick i was like hey i'm just gonna let you know i'm a fan of the podcast and like sometimes nick is very rational and like you really you see both sides of things and i like that because that's how i think i am and and yeah clayton has forgiven you by the way. He told me. He's like, I know I was really mad

but I was like, anything I say in my show I'll say to your face. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, you'll say it to your face too, dude. Well,

enjoy this mediation. Thank you, Susie, for the endorsement. Endorsement? Endorsement. I can't. It's late. Thank you for the endorsement.

I can't. I can't. Anyways, enjoy this mediation and we'll get all these last minute thoughts from Susie after this segment how's it going guys

it's going it's going lazy Monday alright what are your names well I'm Lauren I am 28 I'm Blake I am am 25. All right. You guys dating, married? We are dating. So I think five years, but about three and a half of those years

were off and on. It was a rough ride between that time. Okay. All right. Yeah. Those are rough. okay all right yeah those are those are rough uh and what was one is it one person doing the breaking or was it yeah uh i guess the best way to describe it was i was uh emotionally immature asshole having an identity crisis um so i was trying to navigate growing as myself and i brought this mature woman uh into a relationship when I was not ready to be myself. Are those your words, Blake? My words. Yeah. Looking back, I was a complete tool, I'll call it. Okay. All right. You're back together now? Yes.

Okay. What's going on now? Yeah. So we're trying to rebuild a lot of that trust that was lost, mostly because of me, like I said. So we're in therapy, and it's going well. But we found now that we've been able to focus more on the relationship and not me just dipping out and, doing all the immature things, trying to navigate the actual issues of the relationships foundation. And the biggest one I think that we found is communication. It's become comfortable, I'll say, to speak in a negative way to each other. It's kind of just like spur of the moment, we hear something, boom, you know, we respond to it. So that's become like the norm. So being

nice as weird as it sounds to become a little awkward, like being loving and emotional, especially for me after being so closed off for so many years. And that's created a lot of discrepancies and talking about issues and resolving them. It just shows up when we do argue that that's why. It's like the miscommunication. Someone says something that, well someone will take his route or, and then it just kind of spirals from there. Cause I was like,

well, you do this early. Okay. Well, you did that kind of thing. Lauren, first of all, do you agree with everything Blake said?

Yes, pretty much. Yes. Uh, then my other question for you is, it sounds like he did some things that really hurt you. And if you're like a lot of people, and I've been in your shoes before,

when we're experiencing that hurt, regardless of how painful it is, sometimes all we really want is them back. And so we're not really thinking about what they actually did to us. We just want them back. And then when we get them back then the realization of how the pain affected us then we start processing that weirdly enough because now

we don't have to focus our energy on getting them back we're now we have them back and now your mind wanders into like wait what the what the fuck? Yeah, literally exactly. It did this to me. And oftentimes in relationships, my guess is part of the problem is you are trying to, and correct me if I'm wrong at any point, please. Grapple, you're trying to figure out how to do that. And I'm guessing it's coming out and and how you guys are communicating some passive aggressiveness

just like maybe would it would it make sense have you responded to blake in a way that sounded so short and cold and mean and you thought yourself why the fuck am i talking to him this way yeah no i mean that that's what'll happen because i mean that's that's literally what happens yeah i want him back so much and then yeah a couple months in i'd be like wow i'm like really hating him right now like for seemingly no reason like nothing happened in the moment but i'll just be angry some days and other days i'll be fine but other days i'll feel like maybe something was triggered that day by a sarcastic remark and then i'll just be just mad i'll be i'll be a little rude i'll be a little passive aggressive

i'll also just straight up say some rude shit that shouldn't come out of my mouth and then but then i feel just you're trying to hurt them yeah and i feel justified in it almost because i'm like well i don't ever say this but you did this you hurt me fuck you i'm gonna hurt you back and i've tried to explain this before it's like i don't like that i'm doing it like i know i'm doing it i hate that i'm doing it but i just cannot stop like doing it yeah like i don't i don't know and it's it pisses me off and i get mad at myself but then i'm mad at him you guys are you're in couples therapy congratulations that's awesome good for both you thank you I know it's not not uh what is

like I'm assuming this is something you're talking about with your therapist yeah yeah trying and that's not going well well no I wouldn't say it's not going well. It's just we have, so the issues are, you know, widespread, right? So we kind of focus in on an issue, and then when it comes up, it's just so immediate, like our responses. So no matter how many times we practice or go over everything, you know, we've been given as therapeutic homework. It still seems to happen, you know, even though we've been trying to put in the work.

But once we heard we were going to be on the vile files, I fired the therapist. So I'm totally kidding. Okay, good. Because I'm not a therapist. Thanks for your confidence. Clearly, whatever you did, did you cheat on her or did you break up with her? You probably slept with some people while you're on a break. Either way it hurt. Right. Yeah. Most of that is true. Um, I think when, so there,

there was cheating, uh, but it wasn't sleeping with someone. Uh, but during the breaks, like there'd be points where I was dating somebody else. A few days later.'s a lot and yeah lauren on a scale of one to ten how much do you completely and utterly trust blake and i feel like if you say 10 you'd be lying just to oh i definitely wouldn't say 10 i guess i'd be i would be at a seven because i believe full heartedly that he believes that he's not going to do anything, but he has blatantly to my face that I will never do this thing to you again.

And then within a couple of months, like that thing will happen. And so you don't, you don't know that. I think we always have to be very careful. Yeah. To, you know what I'm saying?

And I get it. i get where you're at and i believe that you want to believe it it seems like blake's at least man enough to he's he's he came on and i don't like want to give him too much credit he did some shitty things but good for him for seems like the good version of blake is that he's here with pure intentions willing to face the consequences of the music whatever and truly trying to be contrite for his choices and fix what he can if you're

willing to give him a shot but you don't know if he won't do this again because he has and you're better off in my opinion not an expert i don't know what your therapist is gonna say of simply just being honest with yourself about that truth and your willingness to accept that risk to yourself and that's a conversation you have with yourself i don't think

like i know blake's here you know but like you're not, this is not an out for Blake to break your heart again because he'd be a piece of shit. Yeah. You know, but you just have to grapple with that, you know, choice you're making. Every relation, I just, I really strongly believe this. Like every relationship has its risks, you know, some more than others. And you listen to my show, Lauren, like people call Ed and be like, I'm dating someone who's so much older or younger.

I'm dating someone who lives across the world. I'm, this is my situation. This is my problem. And like, I don't sit there and tell people what they should do or judge them or whatever. It's just like, hey, assess your risk, really. You know, and knowing, knowing your risks, you're going to have to approach differently. You guys are in couples therapy. You're, you're, you're at least to your guys's credit, actively being like, Hey, we know

some work that needs to be done. A lot of people in your position, we just try to muscle through this and hope for the best. So you're, you in the right direction that you're not. But I think specifically for you, Lauren, you just have to acknowledge that like I, and be comfortable enough to say it to Blake, I want to say that you're a 10, but deep down, I don't because I'm not crazy. And crazy would be saying, I know you're not going to do this when you've already said you're not going to do this and you did it. That would be crazy and you don't think I'm crazy. So I'm just not there yet. And listen, even if Blake didn't do this, there's no guarantee that your relationship isn't going to end someday. I'm sure at some point, and I've been on your side, Lauren, my first relationship, you're just

looking over your shoulder when the breakup's going to happen. You're just like, you're just looking over your shoulder when the breakup is going to happen. You're just like, or when he's going to, you know, fuck up or step out or whatever. And so I feel like you just got to get to a place where you're at least not doing that anymore. And it sounds like you're on your way. So I think there's, and that's, I think that's one. You need to figure out, you need to work on as a couple i think how do you guys keep improving that trust some of it is this going to take some time right yeah and i think a lot of it is about really over sharing and communicating about a lot of things you know i i say this all the time and i keep repeating this my girlfriend natalie uh before we started being exclusive

we were just like hooking up with each other for a period of time bit of a situationship but we were very honest about what we were doing not with each other not always fun to hear not always fun to talk about but we were honest yeah and that honesty be like oh well if she can tell me about this i know she's honest with me because this is not a fun conversation to have and vice versa. So sometimes I find that a way of building trust is to truly talk about the things that aren't fun to talk about. To have a conversation with each other about like, I did this. I did it to you. And I'm not talking about don't cheat on her again to have this conversation. Of course.

And I'm not talking about like, don't, don't cheat on her again to have this conversation. Of course. But I don't know, like maybe, fuck, I don't, I don't know what it is. Hopefully it's very small things that like, I think a lot of people in relationships that like, well, I didn't tell you cause I didn't want you to be mad. Right. So you guys, I hope that you guys are always not always being willing to have the conversations that might frustrate the both of you. Right. Because I think a lot of people in your might frustrate the both of you. Right.

Because I think a lot of people in your position will be afraid, especially you Lauren of, I don't want to make things rocky cause then we'll just break up again. So I'm just going to like swallow it all. And you don't want to do that. No, I've gotten to the point where I will, I will very much state how I'm feeling and what I'm feeling and where it's coming from and what he did wrong to a point where almost it's a little bit mean a little bit toxic yeah yeah and like it's not always justified i'll like i'll say like i'll we had a fun example we want to give if of how it happens if we have the time but yeah no go nuts yeah it's the passive aggressiveness on my part.

Yeah. And I think it's a good example. Uh, it's a little fun, but it also, uh, like exemplifies like how we kind of communicate when there's negative or awkward emotions around.

Um, so we were watching the new Dexter series actually. And one of the episodes, I hated the ending again. I hated the ending. I haven't seen the last episode so if you've been watching then there's episode called storm of fuck so you know how they implemented like the title in the intro somewhere on the screen so it came up kind of laughed and i

was like that's what they call me in the bedroom so like we laughed a little bit and lauren said well it's funny, right? I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah, but you should know better. What do you think her mind's going to go? She's not, what do you mean by that? What do you mean? Who's they?

Who's calling you that? I did think that, too. You're so right. You are very correct. I love sarcasm. I say stupid shit all the time, but you need to be a little extra careful. No, I agree sarcasm. I say stupid shit all the time, but you're, yeah, you need to be a little extra careful. No, I agree. Definitely.

And so Lauren claps back with, well, not that I would know. And, you know, I kind of laughed. And then like 30 minutes later, it kind of like within me, I was like, wait, I'm Blake. Like I'm a storm of of fuck like she can't say that about me and i was like well like i kind of was being passive aggressive didn't bring up like the issue um because it felt awkward for me to just like display my feelings and be like hey this upset me can we talk about this i was more like passive aggressive and then like kind of like how dare you say like not that i would know and i kind of skipped over how she felt and why she said that.

And it just, it turned into like kind of both of us trying to explain our feelings, but like emotions were so high at that time, we couldn't get to a conclusion. So it was kind of just bickering back and forth. So yeah, I mean, like you said earlier, I think that is the prime issue. Well, for me at least is like, I get, I'm fearful of like showing myself and like saying, hey, Lauren, I messed up. Because the great calamity, which I'll call it the, you know, three years of off and on, brought a lot of insecurity within me. And I take that out on her sometimes. What do you mean by that? What do you mean um so like when she said not that i would know like instead of you know looking at it from a mature emotionally mature standpoint there's a

reason she said that we need to discuss this it was more like oh she's insulting me about my prowess in the bedroom so i'm gonna be passive aggressive instead of you know actually confronting her or not confronting but discussing this with her so wait wait wait if i'm hearing you right that's interesting because i was because i'm assuming lauren when you said that you were like i wouldn't know that because you're too busy fucking other girls well like what did you mean by that or were you in fact because that's how actually how i took it or you're like i wouldn't know that because or were you literally trying to knock him down a peg for how he fucks so it was more so that i was trying to kind of put a little jab at him because this is another thing but during the week he's like not really doesn't really want to have sex as much as i do

and it like really frustrates me so i try to initiate and it's just like no um so i get my feelings a little hurt about that and i make sure i let him know in a very passive-aggressive way that's a lot of little things yeah well you know you're not alone there. I think women need to back off in that department. I think if it's the patriarchy or whatever the fuck it is that has taught, you know, society, there's a lot of toxic expectation that men are supposed to be ready to have sex whenever their female partners want it. And this ability to get mad at them if they're too tired or whatever. I think it's a thing a lot of couples deal with, especially young couples, because it can be very emasculating for the guy. He's supposed to always be in the mood etc etc so like i definitely think that's in general that's something all women in heterosexual relationships should be mindful of that like yeah and sort of like the first few weeks or you're

like 19 or whatever that like you just you're not you're not always gonna be in the mood and that's okay yeah and yeah and i think women often have make the mistake of making it about them and you know feeling like rejected or and listen yeah blake fucked up because you would have the right to be like what are you fucking other chicks now like what what's going on? And that's, that's something you guys are going to have to deal with. But in general, faithful men often get tired and don't want to have sex whenever you want, you know,

um, that's just a general thing. So yeah. And if you were, in fact, I mean, you know, there's like,

So, yeah, if you were, in fact, I mean, you know this. Like, definitely try not to, like, mock his sexual prowess. Yeah. Even if he sounds like a little bit of a douchebag for saying that's me. That's the thing. It's like, really? I thought it was funny. Really? But that's kind of how it is.

He's kind of, like, sarcastic and like he's kind of like sarcastic and like dry sarcasm which is funny when i'm like in the mood for it but if i'm not like ready for it and move for if i'm shocked by it i like i usually always respond kind of poorly to dry sarcasm well i think you guys just need to be like take it easy on yourselves you're trying to like you guys are trying to make this relationship work with a lot of hurt and pain. You both maybe need to heal. Certainly Lauren does. You guys are choosing to try to make this work with each other and you have a shot.

But like, don't be so, this isn't it for you. You choose to be together. You choose to make it work. You choose to get over. You choose to forgive. You choose to like build your trust. But if not, choose to get over. You choose to forgive. You choose to build your trust. But if not, life's not over. And I think that's for you, Lauren, something you need to really recognize, even though you're in a relationship. Honestly, I think that makes relationships

stronger. I don't have to be with you. I choose to be with you. I agree. That makes a lot of sense. It's okay to acknowledge when you're afraid. It's okay to acknowledge when you don't trust. Don't lie to yourself. Don't pretend that you're okay with things. Start there. Because what gives you anxiety is knowing there's a truth that you're trying to ignore. And it eats away at you. It does.

You know? It's stressful. And that anxiety is your fear of what you, you know, and sometimes just naming it. I'm feeling, I don't know. I feel off. I'm afraid he's going to do this again. You know? Just fucking name it.

Stop pretending that he would never do this again. I don't know. How could you possibly say that? Right. You can't. Maybe in a few years, you guys will build that trust that that's kind of like he truly has become a different person. But Blake feels, you know, honest enough to recognize that he's trying to be a better person and maybe he's on the path to being a better person. But he's still on the journey, you know, and you guys are still both pretty young.

you know and you guys are still both pretty young and you know you guys want to now grow as individuals and as a couple and hopefully when you guys get there you'll still be in love i hope so that'd be nice it would but if not lauren you'll be okay promise and we'll be here amazing well i'll call and ask nick then and tell you all my issues after when we break up. I appreciate it. Hey, Nick. Remember me. All right. Well, thanks again.

It's a very empowering feeling to know you'll be okay. It is. Thank you so much. All right. Take care, guys. Best of luck. Thank you. You too.

I appreciate it. Bye. Welcome back. Susie. Susie. So we want to wrap this up uh what what is next for you guys how like do you guys feel any pressure you joked earlier that clayton was like i'll get engaged to you right now but i'm all about upfront expectations as you know listening to ask nicks and talking

about those things so have you guys reset expectations in a timeline? He's moving out to Virginia Beach. That's going to be intense. Yeah. How are you guys going to try to take this slow? And I'm just going to say it. I think you guys have a lot to learn about each other still. Every couple does.

So how are you guys going to move in and temper expectations? And have you talked about any type of timelines or things like that? Yeah. So not tomorrow, but the next day we're flying back to Virginia Beach together. We're going to hang out for a couple of weeks. And then I'm shooting a wedding in California. And then I'm flying from California to Arizona. And so this will be like probably, well, it's like a four, it's like a month away-ish.

And then we're going to do a road trip to Virginia. So we're really going all in. What we've kind of talked about for ourselves, like we have had, we genuinely have had a great time. We've had a lot of fun together. But we've also, yeah, it's been tough. It's tough doing this and watching this back. And like, even tonight, like it was a tough show to watch and you're right. We have a lot to learn about each other and we have a lot to learn about ourselves still.

I think we both are like still growing and learning from this. Um, but I am fortunate that I was able to snag, I think it was like an, it was a nine month or eight month lease in Virginia beach. Um, I will, it'll end in September and we've kind of said like, Hey, let's get through the show. This is tough right now. Like not even, not even on our relationship, but as individuals, like I have seen Clayton in a, you know, he has struggled as a person. And I'm like, let's let's get through this together and let's do a three month post show check in on each other. Like, obviously, we can have that conversation whenever, but we're going to be like, OK, let's like let's give this some time. Let's have a check in on each other and see where we're at. And then when my my lease

is up in September, like let's do another pulse check on this. And just like those are kind of like our our our points right now of like, let's like make a point to do a pulse check. Like neither of us are just dating for for fun to just like have a chill relationship for a couple of years. Like we're like, let's see if this can work. Like, let's talk realistically about this. And, um, I don't plan to get engaged in September. Um, if that's what you mean. And Clayton knows that I'm like, we like tonight when they joked about the ring and I was like, we have talked about this. I'm like, I've told Clayton, if you surprise me, I will say no. Like, this is not a fun surprise. And we like, we can obviously laugh about it now, fun surprise and and we like we can obviously laugh about it now but that is like not something that we're talking about and we have realized we're like if we would have gotten engaged it

wouldn't be for us so we're like let's not do it you know it's not for us so um yeah we're just we've got some pulse checks like coming up where we've set these like time frames just to have these real candid conversations with each other. But we want to give this a shot outside of this overwhelming environment. So that's the plan. I think that's great. And I think Clayton's incredibly lucky to have you in his life. And I do say this. I'm glad he does have you because, well while he maybe deserves a lot of this criticism and he definitely fucked up and he definitely was reckless and there was collateral damage, all that is true and he's going to take a beating.

But this show obviously is a behemoth with its fans and they can be irrationally cruel at times. And no one deserves any type of harassment or death threats or things like that. And it can be a very dark place for people. And certainly, uh, it's going to be a challenge for Clayton. And I'm, I'm really glad, uh, that after getting to know you a little bit, that he has you in his life because, uh, you seem like a very well-rounded, uh, person, very centered. And, um, I think he will be all the better for it. Thanks. I want to say I am rooting for you guys. Thank you. I hope, I wish you guys nothing but the best and I hope you keep coaching him up.

Hopefully it doesn't get too exhausting. No. It looks like you are happy. Yeah. And if nothing else, I think that speaks volumes for, with everything you guys have been through so I want to thank you for taking the time to speak with us it's been a long long night and um also thanks for the ethnic endorsement that was absolutely it's great you know absolutely and yeah I I know we're wrapping up but and I appreciate you saying that like that means a lot like I feel seen you

know I feel heard tonight. So thank you. And thank you for giving me this platform to share my experience. But I also have to say, like, I am lucky to have Clayton, too. Like, I know that you, you're, and I know, like, he does. We're like, he's a lot to grow and, like, learn from. And he has. But I'm like, I genuinely do feel lucky to have him, too. And, like, I would, yeah yeah i would feel like a missed opportunity to

like also give him credit where it's due like he has been a rock for me in this as well and he has really supported me and loved me through this as well so i'm lucky to have him as as lucky i think he might be a little luckier i don't know either way but i just wanted to i wanted to plug him too he's great i'm glad i'm really happy for him too. He's great. I'm glad. I'm really happy for you guys. And I am rooting for you guys. And I wish you guys nothing but the best. Thank you.

Yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at castmedia.com. Cast with a K. Subscribe, review, all that fun stuff. Listen to Suzy. Check out our Ask Nick episodes if you needed this show we appreciate you listening

we'll be back on Monday for ethnic episodes Chris Olson for our going deeper episode on Wednesday and next Tuesday we will still be recapping well not recapping we're going to keep our Tuesday episodes we're finally have a break but we're going to keep going I don't know who our

guest is going to be we're going to have someone maybe I don't know who our guest is going to be. We're going to have someone maybe serene, maybe, I don't know, someone. It'll be good. Listen, thanks. Bye. Nice. Killed it.