The Viall Files - E402 Going Deeper – Shayne’s First Tell All!

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Today we are joined by Love is Blind Season 2’s Shayne Jansen, having his first official interview since the show has ended. Shayne claims to be saving it all for the Viall Files and he comes out swinging talking about the drug rumors, what went down during the night of the bachelor party, and how he felt like he had to go to the altar on the day of the wedding. We also dive into and ask about the drama between Natalie and Shaina, and how Shayne reacted to being called the villain. Next, Shayne talks about the very real feelings he felt for Natalie and if he thinks they’ll get back together.  We then go to our mediation couple who are having issues with the polar opposite of music choices. They struggle to figure out who should have control of the aux while driving and if there can be a happy medium between heavy metal and worship music. We end with Shayne telling us where he hopes to go with next steps and what he would say if Natalie was there right now after spilling the tea and letting everything out.  “You can’t have a great hero without a villain.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Go to http://www.BetterHelp.com/ViallFiles to get 10% off your first month. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @ShayneJansen @loveisblindnetflix See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another another and yet and i mean another I mean another amazing episode of the Vile Files Going Deeper edition with Shane from Love is Blind 2. Some spicy content. Answering all your burning questions. Shane delivered. Yeah. It was like really his side of the story. Like I've never thought of it before.

And he came in. We've had other people. He came in ready. We've had other people hype up, you know, their own interviews before that, you know, were okay, but fell a little flat. We won't name names.

We won't. It really felt like Shane had a lot to get off his chest. And what he was is what she's always been, at least from our point of view, is honest with how he feels. Whether you agree or disagree with him.

He got off his chest. So we will get to that. Welcome back, Allie. Thank you. From doing whatever the fuck. You never listen to anything I'm ever doing. But it's okay. You went to Puerto Rico?

Mm-hmm. Natalie and I were thinking about going. Should we go? It was great. The place we stayed was lovely. Happy to send you a rec. Okay. Yeah.

It was really great. Any boys? No, I did see Wedding Boy when I was home. Oh. How was that? It was good. Thought he... I was home. Oh. How was that? It was good. I was thinking about something because, I mean, obviously we met through mutual friends. So he knew I was home for like two days before we went to Puerto Rico through our mutual friends. And then we like got coffee and walked around and talked and it was just a very interesting sensation. And then yesterday, I was going to church with

my grandma and we were making small talk. And I was asking her about this house that she lived in for like 40 years where my mom grew up. And I was like, well, do you know who lives there now? And she didn't because I'd gone through a couple other owners. And I was like, getting together with an ex and trying to like act normal like you were friends has the same sensation of like a house that has so many memories that you have so many questions about now. You have more questions than answers.

And you used to like- Why are you asking yourself questions? I don't know. It's just like we use, it's weird. It's a weird sensation. Like deja vu? It kind of, or it's just like this used to mean so much and now I know nothing about it.

Yeah. Because he was like, we're just talking about small talk. And I was like, what are we supposed to be talking about? Yeah, but it feels so reminiscent of a time when things were so much more, where things were incredibly different. Yeah. He was trying to have small talk about something. Like you have small talk with people you don't have or didn't have any type of intimate connection with.

Totally. Even like giving him a hug was kind of odd. But you know what I mean? It's just like a weird... I feel like I've gotten to the point with my ex, right? And I told him this. I was like, I feel like you're a cousin to me. You know, not a sibling, but a cousin. Like a second cousin?

No, I'm not super close with my cousin. I have much love to them, but they just live far away. Cousins, like you know you're related, but that yeah and like and like because it's it was after like the the power went out and he famously lives half a block away from me and so we ended up like going for a walk and it's just like stuff like that where it's like yeah i'll have your back and stuff like that make sure you have a flashlight and stuff but like i'll have your back if you need me but you should never need me yeah but like you know cousins like you don't you don't really plan to see your cousins you just know you're gonna see them at like various family events yeah and so i feel like that's kind of that's the most peace i've found who knows

welcome back to have you back uh we have uh well obviously we have shane today. Next week, Justin Long, Ask Nick. You've been asking for it. 200 episodes later, he is back. He's as Justin Long as he's ever been. And he is just charming and wonderful. Great insight. Delightful. So if you are tuning in to listen to Shane,

I don't know how familiar you are. Maybe you are a first-time listener to get the piping hot tea. Welcome. We have three shows a week. On Monday, Ask Nick. People call in, share their stories or dating stories, usually sometimes friend problems. I'm pretty good at giving some honest feedback,

helping people understand their situation a little bit more honestly. If you're interested in any type of relationships, if you're going through it right now with a break of any sort, maybe you're going through a situationship yourself, I think you'll really enjoy our Mondays. Again, Justin Long is our guest. Most of the time I do it on my own, but sometimes we bring in

Justin, people like Justin. We talk a lot of Bachelor Reality TV on our Tuesdays, other pop culture gossip, and then obviously we have our Wednesday show. For the first time listening, we have our mediation segments that we often do with our guests because there was so much to talk about with Shane, we didn't want to bog him down with a mediation call, so I do it on my own.

Similar to Ask Nick, Ask Nick's Individuals, Mediations with Couples. I hope you enjoy it. If you have been listening to this show, we appreciate it. Thank you for allowing me to give a little preview to our new listeners who have joined in for this shame interview. I do have a book coming out in October for anyone who is interested in relationships or relationship advice. As you guys know, if you're familiar with this, this book leans a lot to me. I wrote it. It took over two years. The whole goal is to make you feel more powerful and in control of your love life and all aspects of dating, especially

dating heartbreak, getting over an ex. Everything in that book is something I've had to learn the hard way. That's the point of view I'm coming from. And I really believe that it's an easy, fun read. It's not technical, obviously. But I truly believe that you can get some helpful tidbits from the ladies. Have you finished it? It pairs very well with a nice rosé.

It reminds me of a nice beach read. Did you learn anything? Yeah. And I like that there's sometimes like little like infographic things of like text messages. It's very like fun. Keeps you on your toes.

Great. Well, anyways, link in bio, our show description, if you want to pre-order the book, comes out in October. Would mean so much to me. I promise it won't be a waste of your money. We have a billionaire next week, Wednesday's Going Deeper,

who invented the female Viagra and then sold it, bought it back because she didn't think it was being properly distributed to women who might be interested in that sort of drug. They were trying to shelve women wanting more sex, it seems like. I don't know. A lot to find out. Cindy Eckert is our billionaire's name. So much to talk about women in business

and women's sex drive, sexuality. I mean, I'm so fascinated by this conversation. I cannot wait to talk to her next week. So it's worth the wait. Shane, everybody. Shane, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Everyone's been waiting for this. I want to say just off the bat, thank you for hyping up your own appearance. I've never had a guest be so good at hyping up their appearance, which I appreciate. And I don't know if it was just sheer luck. I know you've been off kind of doing some personal things and kind of like busy

and unable to do uh interviews but the the people are still there's a lot of unanswered questions i think that relates to shay and what's your last name shay jansen jansen yes classic wisconsin last name yeah big dutch guy back home so i feel like you have a lot to say. Let me ask you this. What is, more than anything, something that you want to get off your chest? Okay. I want to say the Natalie stuff

and Shana stuff for later on right now. I want to get off the whole drug stuff, the ADHD problems that people are going after me for, all that stuff. I want to get that off right away. Do you use drugs? Have I? Have I have I done them on that show I did not what type of drugs um I mean no experience with a few of them nothing that's been injected into my body but like I mean we've all done I think we've all had our times in our lives where we've

done certain things okay but you the any idea that you were at any point on the show doing drugs completely that's false false you're just i have obviously not a secret anymore but i have severe severe adhd okay and you're sitting in this this tiny little room like for like three hours it's not 30 minutes your nightmare it's like three hours and i felt like and like you have cameras here cameras here right and there's like staring at you while you're confessing like your love and you're talking about all your deep emotions it's very uncomfortable situation right i mean regardless you don't get used to it um i'm much more comfortable when you know we're shooting back in chicago and that's where you saw the better side of me those five episodes next five episodes in chicago because i could be more of myself walking around doing my own thing and having

those conversations whereas i'm just sitting in a room and I was just bouncing off the wall and of course I was in I'll be the first to admit I don't help my anxiety by I drink this is five shots of espresso right here so what the fuck five five that's a warm-up that's not terrible that's terrible no that's terrible it's not good that's terrible. It's not good. That's terrible. Nah. That's not good. I know it's not good. I also have ADHD. I am also, I'm either like super chill

only because like for self-preservation or like if I have too, I can get real hyped up. I'm a decaf. I'm on decaf, Shane. Because like the only thing that caffeine does to me is makes me turns me into you yeah um it turns me into me five five why why do you do that to yourself um you drink red bolts too no i don't do any energy drinks no thank god no i

after that i usually have five in the morning three night, and then maybe like a pre-workout for like later on. Three at night? Mm-hmm. Like two o'clock in the afternoon. Three. Okay. Yeah.

Wow. It's something I'll work on, but yeah, that's like, that's what we do. So like we start filming at seven and we're not there until like three sometimes, right? So I needed energy to stay up and obviously I probably did a little too much, but like, yeah, dude, I just have horrible anxious energy. Like sitting in a room like this is like I'm gonna be moving around a lot this is who I am so we can put to bed any any drug use type of stuff yeah what did that when you were reading that what did that make you I mean no offense like if people thought I was doing cocaine I'm mic'd up the whole time everyone would have heard me do it like it's wild to think that I was carrying cocaine on me like and I was just cocaine, I'm mic'd up the whole time. Everyone would have heard me do it. Like, it's wild to think that I was carrying cocaine on me.

And like, and I was just snorting lines and I was doing all this kind of stuff in the bathroom when I'm mic'd up. Like, they can literally hear you whispering every word you do, they hear. And like, how could they not hear me just do that? I feel like we solved the mystery. That's five espresso shots to start your day. Yeah. And then three more in the afternoon to keep it going like i feel like that does the trick i mean i yeah it affects everyone differently yeah

uh that was the first i just want to put the rest i'm sick of seeing snowflakes in my dm and my comments and everything like that i was like done with it it was definitely a burning question that people wanted to know yeah i'm not naive to say I haven't done it before in my past. No. But like, it's like, no, not on the show. I'm not going to risk everything

for that on the show. But you're this, a bit of an enigma on the show. You were the perceived villain in the first two episodes. Yeah. Kind of public enemy number one because you had that incident

with Natalie and Shana when you found out that Natalie was in the room and it wasn't Shayna. You did that weird thing with the crayon. You were just trying to beat the shit out of the crayon. It was like a weird... That was very uncomfortable watching that. That was very uncomfortable watching that.

Yeah, what was that like for you? I'm not going to make an excuse about the situation because how I handled it was horrible. I regret it. But you've got to realize we walk into that room you hear the tiny little microphone and you're people's voices are like you're just getting to know these people still at this time and yes I made a mistake by calling her the wrong name did you think you were set up by production because how does it work you know like do you like

are they are you told you're going to be in a room? No, you have no idea who you're going to be. You never have an idea. You never have an idea. So you walk, yeah, so you walk into that room, you have no idea who you're talking to. Okay. But, well, what made you think that it was going to be Shana and not Natalie? Because you only have, you get, it's like you break it down. You start with 15 people the first day, right?

And you go down to like eight on day three, who you talk to. And it comes down to your final four people and you have a pretty good idea of it's kind of like two people you might want to keep talking to the most and everything and and obviously shana's voice and nally's voice still got to be the most i just kind of knew those two and yeah i walked in and i was obviously you know overzealous and yeah it's a weird thing to watch yourself back i mean i i have a lot of grace for obviously you in the situation or anyone who goes on reality tv um we we are very quick to dissect and pick apart like these reactions like we always tell these two when they you know like I always tell these two when they

you know like film yourself for an entire day and get upset and be caught off guard and it's gonna be

a really weird thing so yeah I have a lot of grace for you that way because you're like you're an enigma in the sense that like

you know you're this big you're a big guy you're tall you're a good looking guy you kind of have a very bro-y face and I always say I'm the first to admit I can good looking guy you kind of have a very bro-y face

and I always say I'm the first to admit I can come off as a huge tool and a huge douche like that's who I am but if you get to know me as a person

it's like I do have a lot of you know I care a lot and I wear my heart on my sleeve and the people I do like I just show it that way

like expressively I think that was very obvious for the people watching I took a lot of pride in the fact that I felt like when I was watching it people watching I took a lot of pride in the fact that I felt like when I was watching it people were very quick

to be like oh this guy early on the first couple episodes and then I and you guys I was like I don't know

just wait I talked mad shit about you and I'm sorry I was wrong join the club join the club I'd be surprised if you weren't

actually I'd probably have to check you out like why what was wrong with you if you didn't make fun of me but I was just like I don't know there's something I'm not quick to you weren't actually, I'd probably have to check you out. Like why, what was wrong with you if you didn't make fun of me? But I was just like, I don't know. There's something I'm not quick to, I wasn't quick to like, uh, say we know exactly who this guy is yet.

Cause I, you, you saw those glimpses of like, maybe he's just, and I, I say this with love, like odd. Oh, I'm very odd. You know, I'm very odd. He's not, it's hard. it's hard to see yeah it's hard to understand this guy at first because you have a lot of eccentric kind of personality aspects to it's an intense energy you give off yeah i think for a guy your size that can also you know for a show that's predominantly watched by women,

can be very, just even on the screen, I think, intimidating. Yeah. Is that something, like, what have you become more aware about yourself having watched the show? Anything that you maybe adjust in terms of, like, your energy, your approach to people, or maybe nothing at all? No. Because it's a weird thing, right? Watching yourself back and being like, I do that? Yeah, man.

So like I said, the one time for sure is when I gaslit Natalie. And so our form of communication is so different where she's very quiet. She'll think things through first and we'll come back and talk 20 minutes later. Whereas me, I just want to get off my chest. Let's go at it right now and let's try to talk it out. I need to learn how to just listen and not having such a reactive emotion right away to it. And that's what I do every time.

It's like I have that reaction, reactive emotion. And it's something that I wish I didn't have. It's something I'm trying to work on. I'm seeing a therapist, all this kind of stuff. Yes, I of stuff yes I am yes that's how you started since the show huh post show did you start that yes good for you yeah I just knew I needed it regardless but um have you have they the therapist you're working with do they give you any tool like you're not the first person who's like most a lot of people are reactive yeah I I mean, a lot of people aren't good at dealing with

those types of emotions. But most people don't have the energy that I have and that's a double negative right there with that situation, I feel like. Yeah. So they want,

I mean, that's the number one thing is I just got to make sure, I just got to take time and nothing good comes from, what is happening now will still be there 30 minutes from now,

an hour from now. You got to chill chill out and like and like i just gotta learn how to control my energy better i do a very bad job of it it's fun to be around but it's not fun with your with your partner and you're arguing and all that kind of stuff but i need to learn how to do better at that online therapy it's amazing and better help is helping you connect with the mental health professionals that you know and love well you should hopefully love and if you don't know them you need to it's never been easier to get therapy get counseling and we're big advocates on this show if you care about your diet if you care about exercise you should also care about taking care of that mental health it's all about maintenance you don't need a crisis to validate or to justify getting therapy. But if you

are going through a troubled time, whether it's stress or anxiety or work or relationships of any kind, let some of the mental health professionals at BetterHelp help guide you through those difficult times, give you some resources, help you control the things you can control. BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make it easy and free to change therapists if needed. So yeah, I mean, good therapy is all about finding the right fit, you know, and sometimes you just don't have someone you jive with. That's okay. You can get someone new and BetterHelp is making that easy for you. There is a broad range of expertise available, which may not be locally to you. It doesn't matter because at BetterHelp, you can log on your phone, your tablet, your computer,

wherever you are. In fact, so many people have been using BetterHelp that they are recruiting additional therapists in all 50 states. Join the over 2 million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. Special offer for Vilefile listeners. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. That is betterhelp.com slash vile files. How's your sleep with all this caffeine that you're... I sleep fine. Shocking to me. Yeah.

I mean, no offense, but when the show came out, I didn't sleep at all, really. Also, that brings up another point. My wedding day where I looked like I was coked out of my mind, I didn't sleep for two days straight because I had no idea what she was going to say at the altar. No idea. My parents, my mom was in town. My whole family was in town. I was so embarrassed.

My anxiety was like going crazy. Why were you embarrassed? Because you were about to get married to someone you didn't know. You have to go to the altar, right? So it's like, it's such an awkward, uncomfortable situation, right? What do you mean you have to go to you have to you have to go to the altar right so it's like it's such an awkward uncomfortable situation right you have to go to the altar you have to go to the altar like you have to you have to whether you say yes or no it's up to you but you have to go to you have to go through with it yeah how do they make you what's kind of what you sign up for no i know i have to you have to do it i mean i don't know like

i didn't read my contract that well i guess but like everyone does it you have to do it. I mean, I don't know, like I didn't read my contract that well, but I guess, but like everyone does it. You have to go up the altar. That's the point of the show. I think. Totally. They need the clip at the end. They need the clip at the end. Well, but it's like, I get,

I get that. And there's like, you know, being on the batch there, you know, there's a, there's a pressure you feel. And at this point,

the show has been on so long there, the pressure is mostly applied from the audience or the perception that you have to but like there's no and there's certainly a lot of like what i say you know your friends who tell you to buy the boat be like but like there have been people who have broken the mold and so when you say very like confidently and definitively no you have to do that that I'm just curious as to like did you honestly feel like you were like

no fuck it I'm like oh yeah the night before the night before I hit up some like the producers and whatnot and I'm like

I can't do this I don't want to go but then we have to see it through and what did they say we have to see it through we have to see it through but what if you just like ran you know what I mean I have a fat lawsuit on my back right now i don't know

i don't know at the end of the day it's like like all i didn't i didn't know what to do at the time and it's like you were just like there was so much honestly at that point i was so mentally exhausted by everything that was going on in my life and like i just didn't want to have another problem on my hand it's like let's just get through this let's go and like just be dude i was mentally drained at the end that at the end of that it was so long i can't imagine how long how long do you guys film on the bachelor uh well if you make it to the end but yeah like in a pre covid world yeah it was like nine weeks okay yeah that's how long was but it's also like you're completely off the grid you you guys are off the grid in the pods. Yep.

But like you had your phone. You were back in society. Yeah. So that's a different social experiment. We were working all day, and then we had to film at night. Really? Yes. So I'm working from 7 to 5, 7 to 6. What do you do for work?

Real estate. How did you get anything done? I didn't. My work, it was bad it was very bad because i just emotionally mentally how could you oh i couldn't imagine what's my thing and yeah so then you feel then you feel at night you have your date nights and you have all this kind of stuff at night with her or else you want to or else did work know what you were doing yeah they loved it wow like oh yeah make sure you brand stuff here i'm like don't fuck you guys my mental health's all expiring downhill we're a war brand yeah listen here's a t-shirt can you

wear it at your proposal yeah they loved it like if she breaks up with you at the altar just rip off your shirt and have the logo painted to your chest. That still would have been as bad as what Shake did. But we'll get into that. Well, how do you, are you ready to talk about the fight the night before? I mean, since we're talking about

what happened. All right. So, that was our bachelor and bachelorette party nights. Okay. The night before? No, no.

So, it was like two nights before. Okay. Technically, I think. I'm trying to think of so long ago. It was two, it wasn't the night before. We didn't have our bachelor party night the night before no no so it was it was like two nights before technically I think I'm trying to think it was so long ago it was two

it wasn't the night before we didn't have our bachelor party night the night before the wedding it was that night our bachelor party night we were all

we were at Wrigley Field that night ready and like they were at their boat cruise or something like that and they filmed that yes exactly that's where you

were a really bad baseball player oh don't get me started dude that was honestly the most embarrassing part jared jared he he looked like a natural yeah i know my one chance my one chance shine i tried too hard i failed and dude people didn't the whole the whole thing you play baseball the whole bad slamming my knee thing that was supposed to be a joke about just like a bo jackson kind of breaking over my

knee thing but that was obviously not taken that way um yeah I played baseball my whole life college baseball too you played college ball dude I went up there swinging for the finances I went up there hard but you played college ball that's that's very good where'd you play at Stevens Point and a good program isn't that like one of the best it was yeah I don't know anymore I don't like look into it anymore but yeah they used to be. They were really. Yeah, they used to be really good. Because you looked bad.

Hmm? You looked really bad. Oh, I know. I'll never live it down. Jarrett looked like he could have got a minor league contract. Okay, let's bring it down. Take it down a notch. Anyway, so.

Anyways, yes. So that was a night. So it was, we our bachelor bachelor and bachelor party nights okay we weren't supposed to meet up that night either the guys had like all their friends and then we were we were back to our apartment complex where all the couples stay oh so they kind of rented out a building yes exactly it's easier for filming purposes i think and everything like that right yeah um and then the girls decided to join the party that night which we weren't supposed to do you're supposed to be you're supposed to be separate from um do you think that was the women's idea or do you feel like the show was like i think

i honestly i have no idea but i mean i had no problem with them coming over and having fun okay i didn't care but no offense on your bachelor party night you're all drinking with your friends like at so at this point it's like it was a long night and we were all drinking and like we were also it was like a celebration because we're almost done filming we're you know a celebration we can finally have their friends have fun let loose no cameras around we're having fun and of course so she gets back all of her friends and we're partying with them, having a good time. And she starts calling me out for some of the things that I'm doing. Such as? Like drinking too much.

Okay. Yeah. But I wasn't arguing with anyone at the time. I wasn't doing anything wrong. So was that something that she had a problem with while you were dating for the month? No. Or in that night, she was just like, why are you so drunk? That night, yes.

And the drinking wasn't the problem before, like the weeks before. So at the bachelorette party, you're at your bachelor party, you're getting loose, a little drunk. Which everyone usually does on their bachelor party nights. And she's calling you out for being drunk. Yes. And then what happened? And then I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I was obviously being very overdramatic and everything like that. I had called myself out on that 100%.

But at the same time, it's like, this has been weeks of buildup, weeks of buildup from us that weren't, was seen off screen that like she would always pick and pick, pick, pick little things that I do wrong and never like appreciate anything I did right for her all the time. Yeah. I know the feeling. Yeah. And she, she, but she made sure on camera to show off

that kind of stuff but outside of the cameras not even close you felt like she was incredibly careful yes she we had we always had talks about what she wanted to say and what we wanted to do all the time and i'm like dude this is not like how i operate like i can't i don't like thinking about stuff like i'd rather like i'm like this is like supposed to be a fun enjoyable experience like it's be our natural normal selves and no so like Natalie wanted like a a pre-film technically yes breakdown what should we like she wanted to script your conversation a little bit yes not like yeah to a certain extent yeah like curated yeah it's a little bit yeah so like for instance that the beach scene that is not the Shane brand Shane is this like I'm I'm shooting from the hip yeah I'm coming in hot

you're gonna watch they might love me they might hate me but I'm gonna be myself I am and that's one thing honestly I can be happy with

but the beach scene for instance where I knew I had to talk to Shane that night I knew I had to and Natalie was like

freaking out about it the whole time when you what do you mean had to I had to approach it's my first time about it the whole time when you what do you mean had to I had to approach the situation it was my first time seeing her okay outside of the pods

so you personally yeah I'm going for clarification because there's always questions about like the show what part is the show what part is you

so this is something you personally felt like hey I need to see this through like you I built a connection with this person also like I get it

like the show asks you to develop multiple relationships with this person also like i get it i think the show asked you to develop multiple relationships you know and then you get engaged and then you're supposed to think the other person died yeah but dude guess what again it's like why is it okay for like when you're on the bachelor you can make out with multiple people throughout the whole weeks there i was talking to two girls okay talking god forbid i didn't touch any of them and hug kiss talking to two girls on a dating show and i forbid. I didn't touch any of them. I didn't hug, kiss. Talking to two girls on a dating show. And I was getting ripped apart for playing both of them or whatever, right? Whereas on your show, it's acceptable to make out with multiple people.

Tell multiple people you love them. Well, I mean, I don't know if you've seen the finale. Not so much anymore. I didn't see that. No, I didn't watch the last one. No. I get what you're saying. That's what I'm trying to say.

It's like, dude, I went into it with an open mind and I'm like, I'm truly here to try to find someone to spend the rest of my life with. I'm not going to just completely dump two people right away

and figure it out. Clearly, people have had a lot to say about you. Yeah. But you approached this experiment, as the show called it, as authentically as

anyone else. Exactly. That no one can fault you for. You definitely went in fully committed to like whatever this was. Yeah. When you watched it back, did you feel like there was anything, especially in that initial ramp up period with Natalie and Shaina that felt like, okay, yes, it's all obviously real footage, but the way they're framing this or the way they're sort of constructing a

narrative feels inaccurate? Or did it feel like what you saw on screen was pretty similar to what you experienced i always say this it's like what happened like i did everything that was on that screen it was very real but like yes they could have easily have done i've had a lot of good conversations with shana i had a lot of great conversations with natalie but they had a point i guess what are you wearing comments all the time that i made it's like yes i got it i said it was like we were in there for like two hours talking each other it was more of a joke of like hey what's like, yes, I got it. I said it. We were in there for like two hours talking to each other. It was more of a joke of like,

hey, what's your fashion? Like, what are you doing? It's just like a joke thing. And it wasn't anything sexual. It was like whatever. It was like having fun with the conversation. And they had to highlight it every single time. Whereas they didn't go into any other conversation

I was having, like how deep they were. And I wish they would have done more of that. But yeah, they definitely pointed out to make me look like I was like, you know. That could be some like careful editing. I know there's like on The Bachelor they've done,

I know they vilified a couple person. Like every time you sit down for like an ITM, I don't know what you guys call them, we call them in the moment interviews. Yeah, we call them

in the chair. And you're on a TV show, you're being filmed. So what do a lot of people sit down, they do, and they kind of forget that they're on camera.

Would it be smarter to do before you sit down? They go, how's my hair? that they're on camera. Would it be smarter to do it before you sit down? They go, how's my hair? Do I look good? And they're looking into the camera. And a couple times, I know in The Bachelor, they had this character. In the B-roll, he was kind of the villain

and kind of talking like he doesn't care about these other guys. And then they had a comment of him being like, how's my hair? It was perfectly placed at a time where it came across as so incredibly like superficial and wrong. And like, he was just like, do I look good? You know, because he's on camera. So I get that. But back to your fight with Natalie at the bachelor party.

Yes. Do you remember what you specifically said? Yes. Yes. But I always want to go back to so the beach scene though first because this is where all stem from so like she was very nervous about that night going into the that night yes because it's our first time approaching the shana situation kind of and we knew we had to because like the the show wanted that to happen obviously sure you

know so i knew i had to confront it and just like you know do whatever so I went there she was a very nervous for us and I say and like you know just like try to protect us as a couple and I thought I did fantastic Holly handled it there and it was like as much as I could for seeing this girl that I was like talking to and everything like that right and and I told her everything we talked about I didn't lie when I came back to talk to Natalie it was all in camera I said exactly what she talked about. I didn't lie when I came back to talk to Natalie. It was all on camera.

I said exactly what she told me. And they didn't show her when she was supposed to have a conversation with Shana. They were supposed to have a conversation. And she ran away from the conversation. She literally ran away. Literally ran. Ran. How did that not make the cutting room floor? Because you know why?

They wanted America's Sweetheart. That would have been great. Can you picture this video of Natalie just running in the Sweetheart. That would have been great. Can you picture this video of Natalie just running in the other direction? Yeah. That would have been a good TV. Yeah.

So I didn't want to have, do you think I wanted to have a conversation with Shayna? Maybe, but I didn't really, I didn't need it, but I did it and I stuck up for us

and all that kind of stuff. And once our conversation was over, it was her turn to have a conversation with Shayna. And when they were about to sit down, she ran away.

Legit ran. And how did you feel about that? I thought it was hypocritical. Why? Because she wants me to do all this stuff and I'm doing all this stuff wrong. But then when she does it and it's right in front of her,

why don't you grow up and why don't you man up for some of the stuff that you've done too with her? And just call her out on her stuff. Why do I have to do it all yeah i see that she was kind of like the she wanted to be the polished yeah problematic exactly yeah you know and then after i we had our conversation about what what she what me and she talked about and i told her everything and i stuck up for ourselves and when we got back to our apartment she she goes, yeah, but I wish you had done this.

I wish you had done this. I wish we had done this. Natalie. Yes. To you about the conversation with Shana. Yes. After she ran away. Yeah.

It was frustrating. Yeah. What did you say? I said, this is where it stops. I'm like, I'm never enough for you. I'm never going to be enough. Like you pick and pick and pick away. Like she didn't say anything good I did that night at all.

I don't, like in the whole affirmation stuff is like because she always picks at all the my like everything i do wrong right and i supposedly did wrong what's your love language yeah you think you know that is you need a compliment no i don't need a compliment i just don't need to get fucking berated up by like wrong it's not like and people like dude yes would i like a compliment it's like and she got off scott free in mexico for calling me a piece of shit all the time like oh that's just her that's just her uh humor dude i made it very clear in the pods too it's like listen my whole like life like the every date i've gone on like they always like say oh you you always get compliments you always get this so like why do you need more from me like i'm

listening like it's like our conversations are always like joking and picking fun of like me. I guess our way of flirting, it's fine. But like, dude, I don't get compliments because exactly what you're saying right now is people just feel like they can use you as a punching bag for that kind of stuff. I was just about to ask you, do you feel like sometimes people think that you can take it and then you, you actually, you probably, you seem like someone who've, you are sensitive from my, what I can tell. I'm you are sensitive but not sensitive in a way

I think you're good at taking some puns, some jabs and you're able to laugh you're better than let's say Will Smith at a joke but you have your limits especially with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with.

Yeah. I can handle it for my friends. They give me enough shit and that's fine. It's funny. But like, I'm not in eighth grade anymore where all of our conversations are we fucking just like poking fun at each other. Do you think you pretend that you're not sensitive? No, I am sensitive though.

No, I know. But that's not what I asked. Do you think you're, do you think at first when you meet people, people don't think that about you? Yeah, probably. I think I'm probably much more confident than I am. And maybe it's just kind, people don't think that about you? Yeah, probably. I think I'm probably much more confident than I am. And maybe it's just kind of like that. How tall are you?

6'3". I think you being a bigger kind of... Yeah. It's like people look at you and go, possible douchebag, right? You know that. And so let's just... It's true.

It's fair. Right? Not wrong. Say that about me. Not like it's uh not wrong you're a tall white male like from chicago like it's like right off the bat it's potential yeah douchebag qualities and yeah it can be it can be exhausting sometimes yeah so now that you're you have you're in this fight she's calling you out for drinking. What did you say to her that came across, at least from her point of view, very triggering for her? And was it, I guess, essentially a deal breaker for her?

That's how she positioned it. I ended it. I called off the engagement again that night. Obviously very dramatic, but I can't marry you. I'm never going to be enough for you it's like you honestly like make me feel like i'm just not a good person and i'm never gonna be enough for you ever because i've seen what a lot of the other guys in the show doing all that kind of stuff too it's like what it's just like i feel like i'm always like just a horrible person when i'm around her she makes me feel like i'm a horrible person

i'm so sorry yeah Yeah. That sucks. And that's how I felt about it. Did you say you hate her? Huh? Yeah, I did. Because that's what we remember. You did say that. Yeah, I did.

That's all strong. Oh, very strong. And I apologize a hundred times over. And I said that numerous times at a reunion that if I could take that back, I would in a heartbeat. And I'm like, I think about it all the time.

I think about it every day. I wish I would have used my words better. For sure. I wish I would have handled the situation better. But it almost seems like that one, and you apologizing were wrong i was very wrong but that was that became the focal point of that conversation not everything else that was talked about yeah it basically overshadowed everything else it's a weird thing too because like that obviously when you say you hate someone, it's very strong. It's a noticeable thing. It has a lot of passion behind it. And in relationships, you need to give your partner

feedback. Hey, can you not do this? Can you not do that? But over time, it can be a lot. And maybe Natalie, now let me ask you this looking back do you think natalie was kind of aware of that that's what she did do you think that was a behavior that is not like that's how she is in relationships or do you think it was maybe spoke to a lack of overall compatibility that makes sense it does. I truthfully just think, like, she was so uncomfortable with everything that was going on. Like, this was not her kind of thing.

This whole, like, this experiment, this show. Now she likes being in control, doesn't she? Well, so do I to a certain extent, but, like... Everyone likes being in control. Yeah.

She likes controlling her own narrative, yes, 100%. Like, the impression I got from you is, I mean, everyone likes control. Yeah. But you were willing to accept that you weren't going to have control in this environment. Oh, for sure, yes. And embrace it.

Where Natalie, from what we're hearing from you... And she felt like she didn't have control because of who I am as a person. And she never really knew what she was going to get out of me, which is, I guess, not fair for her either. But I didn't change from the pods to the real world. I was the same person. My energy levels and if I was overwhelming to her, she could have found that out during all of our conversations on the pods.

So Natalie broke up with you at the altar. Yes. What were you thinking of doing? When? Like, let's say she... I said yes. You did say i did why because i put those next two days like i said that makes sense those next two days yeah no offense my life doesn't make sense welcome to my life um but here's the deal we also

reconnected the night before the wedding yeah and everything was great okay but you still the night before the wedding yeah and everything was great okay but you still despite all i wanted to i wanted to marry this girl i really did and maybe i just why huh why because like and i don't know maybe maybe it's did me do you think that was like wanting to make this experience work because i mean it's a really big thing and again we'll give natalie the grace that like, it's a really big thing. And, again, we'll give Natalie the grace that maybe it's not compatibility, but to say that she made you feel like a horrible person and made you feel small and belittled, essentially, I'm putting words in your mouth, belittled.

But we talk about a lot of relationships on the show, and that is, if anything, I ask people who call in, they'll talk about chemistry, and they'll talk about this, and they'll talk about chemistry and they'll talk about this and they'll talk about plans they had and i'm just like how do they make you feel yeah tell me about that let me ask you this question though so this is what i go back and forth with all the time i i love natalie i always did i loved her but did i fall in love with the idea or because of how much it was pushed on me not like but the show right like you talk about your

emotions every single day. You fall in love with the idea of having a family, getting married. But like, I mean, was I? I go back and forth thinking about it all the time. In a normal situation. You still don't think you have the answer to that question? I don't think I do.

Well, after hearing how she made you feel, respectfully, I don't get any business being in a relationship with her at all along being married to her i hope the next relationship you're in you prioritize how someone makes you feel yeah regardless of how you they look or how like i always say the the good does not make up for the bad in a relationship, in my opinion. Because people all the time in toxic relationships, and you can be in a toxic, in my opinion,

in a non-professional therapist opinion, toxic doesn't mean abusive. Abusive is always toxic, but toxic in general could be like people are toxic to each other toxic is such a broad it's like a spectrum of like you know being we're all manipulative in relationships and that's toxic you know and we're when we're not being just upfront and honest with how we feel and we're passive aggressive that's toxic etc etc etc so i don't think any type of like chemistry or how much fun we have when it's good makes up for any kind of toxic behavior at all in relationships and i think that's probably the number one mistake people make that's right that's exactly what i made

is they're just like but it's when it's good it's so good but like the end of the day if you take an inventory of how you feel overall in the relationship like your resting state of being around this person do you feel confident or insecure do you feel happy or do you feel sad do you feel calm or do you feel anxious minus your adhd of naturally anxious person but like ideally you want to be with someone who brings that anxiety down not right builds it up and i've i'm fortunate enough to be in a relationship now with someone who oh my god like my anxiety is a hundred times better around her and i've been in relationships where i that feeling of not being good enough and always doing something wrong and like looking over my shoulders like what did i what did I do or say no. Yeah.

I mean there are times I was out with Natalie at a party yesterday and we were talking to friends and we were I thought I'm like

I thought you were talking about my ex-fiancee. You're Natalie? I'm sorry. My Natalie. I totally forgot you were What a plot twist though. So by the way

Oh wait now it's coming through the door here. I'm dating Natalie. Like a Maury Povich moment where she's like I'm fucking your ex. Oh my god. B it's come through. Yeah, bring her out. I'm dating Natalie. Like a Maury Povitz moment where she's like, I'm fucking your ex. Oh, my God.

Bicing on the cake. No, my girlfriend's name is Natalie. I forgot about that. No, I know that. Yeah, I totally forgot. And I'm aware that I, like you, can just say things. Sometimes I could have more of a filter

in social settings than I've had in the past. And I've become very self-conscious about it where I'll say things and sometimes I'll look, like, did I say something wrong? Is she going to be mad at me? Because I still have PTSD from past relationships where I think this would have caused a fight.

And I just don't have that with my current girlfriend. And that matters. It just doesn't have that with my current girlfriend. So like, and that matters. It just doesn't matter how good the sex is or how good they are or how thoughtful they are on your birthday if like the day-to-day makes you feel belittled and small. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I was the opposite way of thinking that, yeah.

Because I always kept telling her, I'm like, we have such good times. We have such good times. That's also why we've reconnected four times after the show. Well, I... We tried four times. Four times.

Yes, and just recently this past weekend. Okay, because someone DM'd me and said, I saw Shane and Natalie walking the streets of Chicago. What the fuck? So you tried, and that was you guys trying? So that was more of like...

Listen, I've been saying this the whole time. Like the best thing for us is to be cordial with each other and not like be spiteful and hate and whatnot. It's like. If she listens to this podcast. She's going to hate. Yeah, but guess what?

I had some things that happened in the last couple of days where it's like, I'm just like, I'm fed up with it now. It's like, you can't. Do you think she's going to be surprised? Have you told her everything you were telling us? Yeah. So I like i mean yeah she knows a lot of stuff i mean i could go i have a lot more stuff but like like what like everyone's like thinks that like you know i kind

of like why was she with me why does she love me like i'm such a bad person she why didn't she run why you know i'm a psycho there's proof that she wished she said yes at the wedding. I have proof that she wished she said yes. She said it very vocally. She goes, I wish I said yes at the altar. Numerous times. She said yes to you. Yes, I have video proof of it and everything.

Why was it on video? Because we were having a little cute time together. And it was nice to see. Toxic, toxic. You should delete that. I know, I'm going to. It feels like something. I'm not going to blackmail this situation. You already said it. And you have the right to say it,. You should delete that. I know, I'm going to. It's just, it feels like something. I'm not going to blackmail this situation.

Well, you already said it. And you have the right to say it, but like you should delete it. Yeah. It's like, no, it's like, I'm sick of her getting away scot-free. Like saying like, you know, she was like forced in this relationship

where like I like was mentally or whatever abusive to her. It wasn't even the case at all. Like we, she genuinely loved me and she'd know who I was, I guess. And it's like, I'm sick of people doing this. Like she, her saying no at the altar and people like cheering her on i was i guess and it's like i'm sick of people doing it's like she her saying no at the author people like cheering on and like it's like that's great and all but like you know she wanted to say yes to him i'm trying to think back because it's been like a month since i watched it yeah she never offended you never did nope and then after once the show came out um because i she was liking comments on people's

shit like little passive-aggressive stuff that's like she knew all the hate i was getting from the And then once the show came out, she was liking comments on some people's shit. Like little passive-aggressive stuff. She knew all the hate I was getting from the show. I was getting ripped apart. Ripped apart. Like I said before, I was trending for the first five days under the Ukrainian crisis on Twitter. On Reddit, I was getting all these fucking animations and Gary Busey stuff. Like wild shit.

I was trending on Reddit, TikTok, and Twitter. The Gary Busey one's kind of funny. It's hilarious. Yeah. And this is someone who's gotten some real bad memes made about me. Yeah. I've learned to laugh it off.

See, I laugh. I laugh. It's hard though. It is. At first it's not. It is. And you think the person that's getting the best edit in the entire world

and like seeing all the hate i'm getting you know she didn't once like stick up for me and say like i had like when she posted one day on instagram about like um just a reminder that like what you saw on tv is a short snippet of our love story like i had like i'm like can you please do something like this like my i have family back home like dude something stick up for me so because i'm not a bad person and like i'm sick i was sick of her not defending it. She was milking every single thing she can. Hearing you talk and the things,

you're getting a lot off your chest. I am. I'm trying to be respectful with it too as much as I possibly can. Because we were still arguing again last night about some things. So the fact that you're still talking in the context of even

considering getting back together is mind-blowing for me and i'm wondering it's not about getting back together it was kind of like but you said you talked about it four times oh different times yeah after the show after the show so the fact that once and nothing against either of you but just as the unit seems insane insane from what I'm hearing. But you did. And I'm wondering, the part of you that was interested in getting back together with her, did you feel like in any way, subconsciously or consciously, that if you got back together with Natalie, then everyone would assume that he can't be a bad guy.

That if they loved Natalie and she took you back, that that would... Exonerate? Exonerate you. Or, you know, was there a part of you that was chasing this... Truthfully, not. Okay. Not at all. I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah, I'm dead serious. No. None of that kind of stuff mattered. What was it about Natalie? And what is it about Natalie, despite your feelings and frustrations, which I think are valid and understandable, that you love, that you care about? I want, you know, we've...

Natalie's taking a bit of a beating this episode. Let's bring her up here. Remind us what it is that has drawn you. If it wasn't that because that would be understandable and i'm glad that you can confidently say that it's not what are the things that keep drawing you back to that relationship so you know when people ask me this question i i ask myself this all the time it's like usually in every relationship i'm in it's three months and i have no problem letting go never talking to you ever again whatever it is

with her i just felt damn this is hard to explain because like I honestly every time like we hung out together it just was so easy she was she was my best friend like we got along so well everything we did is like we could finish each other's sentences we could you know we did we had such fun outside the cameras and like she just made me feel like safe for the most part and like comfortable how safe i could spend the rest of my like just be safe like i can have a family this girl like i i don't know i just like i don't know how did you feel like understood or was it like a stability thing it was stability it was more stability yeah like i don't understand safe, because how can you feel safe if you feel belittled? But is it more, because she seems like,

generally like a high character person. She has her shit together. Yeah. Are you saying safe in the sense that like, I feel like Natalie could get herself out of a jam. Like she, she seems like, yeah, she has her shit together. Is safe that way, you mean? No, like just like, I don seems like, yeah, she has her shit together. Yeah. Is it safe that way, you mean? No, like just like I don't like, for instance,

like a different relationship I would be in. I would feel like uneasy about certain things, like about our future and all that kind of stuff possibly. With her, I just knew it would always work out, I felt like. That's the kind of safety I felt. Like I just knew it would work out and we'd be good. We'd figure everything out and we'd take care of it that way. But then, yes, it's take care of it that way but then

yes it's fucked up to think that way because of how else the other things you would do I don't know why I would think that way I mean listen that's how I felt

it was easy and like dude someone told me this the other day I was like are we like connected like the trauma whole situation

are we like trauma bonding yes that has to be it that's what I keep going back to we're trauma bonding i think yeah what we went through is so messed up you will always your friendships with your castmates well over time you'll go a little not go away it'll never go away because you are bonded through this very traumatic experience and that's kind of like you will and

some people you'll stay close with but you they will never go away yeah they might you know fade away certain people you'll like get close and and you know like you may never talk to to shake again i don't know where do you where where do you stand with shake what uh what was your read watching it back and we had deep d on here and she was like no everyone had my back shake was worse but on at least on the camera that was a redeeming moment for you on the show is that you were very quick to call out shake uh which i personally thought was redeeming because again if nothing else, you just decided to embrace almost to a fault where you're just like, guys, no, this is what we signed up for. This is where we're here.

Get your shit together. Approach love a different way, the way we said we would in the show, and you called out Shake for that. different way the way we said we would in the show and you called out shake for that but what was deep d correct when you when she said shake got a great edit it was far worse than what you saw yeah for the most part anything you could add it's it's stuff like where the edits were like you could just tell like the guy was like he was there just to end field could do it to go to the end of the show. That's all he cared about.

That must have pissed you off. It did. You know what? If he does it, it makes everyone else look bad. It was all fake for everyone else. He didn't do us any favors at that reunion. It was great TV. Oh, yeah. And you missed half of it, too.

What do you mean he didn't do you any favors? I actually disagree with that. I think... You think so? You can't have a great hero without a great villain. The greater the villain, the better the hero. I think he's past villain. He is, but bad.

But in a sense, he's a great villain. So every time you even stood up to him at the reunion, you looked great. Because he looks so bad. What else did we not see at the reunion? I can't say this up. Why? He called out a lot of people at the reunion.

And like, stuff that would be very, very bad. Shake is, he means absolutely nothing to me. So like, I don't want to give him any more fucking publicity. I don't give him any more shit. Like, I'm just kind of done with Shake. He's a horrible person. Horrible person. He needs to get.

Those are strong words. I have no problem with you saying it, but they're strong words. And I think there, and I've said this on the, I think there's a lot of great people who go on The Bachelor. Yeah, I want to say this.

And I think there's a couple horrible people. Yeah. Horrible might be strong. I think he's going through a lot right now, and I don't think he's dealing with it correctly at all. At all. I think there's some underlying issues that are going on that he is like

not addressing for himself. Deep down, I think he's a bad person. I don't know. I just don't. I can't say that, I guess, because I don't know him that well,

but I really want to know what he said at the reunion. You're getting me in trouble. Like the producers don't want you to say? I don't want to say a person. I don't want it to come out of my mouth.

It's that bad. And out of respect for the other cast members? I don't want to say it personally. I don't want it to come out of my mouth. It's that bad. And out of respect for the other cast members, I don't want to say it either. Who are you talking to from your show a lot these days? Not really anyone. No. No. Why is that?

A lot of stuff has happened outside the show right now where it's like, it's just drama. It's constant gossip and drama with them. And like, I think they feed off of it a little bit. There's just a new, there's like a new story

about me every single time with them. And like, I feel like I always get attacked by the whole group of them. And they're always on Natalie's side more than mine. And it's like,

I just don't need to deal with it. I'm friends with some of them, yeah, for sure. But like, I remember seeing, they all hang out together. Nick and Danielle commented.

I love Nick and, I love Nick and Danielle. Okay. i love those two they're they're fantastic i think they're fantastic and they're like they're finally like i just love them yeah they're great i really think they might work yeah dude it's fine and i never would have guessed that watching that fucking show early on but uh i really think they they can work yeah Yeah, they're great. Completely different vibe when they came on for our mediation call. Yeah, I love those two. And I talked to Jarrett still a little bit. But that's about it. That's about it.

I used to hang out with Deepti all the time. I love Deepti too. I think Deepti's a great person. But it just can't work because she she's friends with natalie best friend good friends with natalie and i can't play the middleman game where she's like going back and forth it's like i don't i respect for her and i respect for me it just doesn't make sense right now it's too it's too soon it's like i get i have friends outside of the show that i can hang out with that i don't have to deal with all the other stuff with it from this show right

now makes sense shane you've been uh so honest and and uh i really appreciate your authenticity usually on these uh going deeper episodes we do a mediation call with our guests but we didn't want to stress you with having to uh give a relationship advice and so uh we uh pre-recorded me giving relation advice to a couple. So for our audience, we're going to play our mediation segment. Shane, you would love this one. This particular fight is a couple complaining about the music that they play on road trips. One person loves Christian rock and the other one loves heavy death metal music.

And so we try to find a common ground of how to do that. So we're going to play our mediation call. And after that call, we're going to be back with Shane to find out what's next for Shane in life. Does he think he's ready for a relationship? Is he currently potentially have an eye on someone? Or, and is he done done with Natalie?

You might be surprised by the answer after mediation. How's it going, guys? Good. We're doing great. Doing great, yeah. What,

all right, first of all, what are your names? My name is Renee. And I'm Justin. All right. Renee and Justin. You guys married?

Dating? We are. We've been married for two years. Amazing. All together, five years. Congratulations. Who wants to start? Like, who's going to tell the story about what you guys are disagreeing about?

No, it's obviously going to be Molly here. I'm waiting for the one guy who's going to step in and be like, I fucking got this. Yeah. So far, it's been all women being like... It's the guys have been like, no, no, you tell it. You brought me here.

Yeah. He was already like, oh man, you're going to make me talk about this, so I'll definitely be the one that talks about it. Justin, we thank you. I'll just pick up with the rebuttal. So our, one of our silly disputes, but still carries on through our whole marriage and relationship altogether is radio stations. When we drive anywhere,

let alone to the grocery store or further away if you're taking a four-hour road trip. We have very different styles and tastes of music. I prefer Christian worship music. This is what my number one favorite music is. And my husband's is more like a heavy metal screaming kind. Quite the opposite. Yours are very different.

Yeah. I can't say Those are very different. Yeah. I can't say I'm a fan of either. And not that I don't... So you're unbiased. I'm unbiased. Yeah. There you go. I'm unbiased. You're going to be super

impartial and all that. Okay. So his thinking is that... Is it music? Is it often music? Or is it like sometimes podcasts and like news radio? Or is it just when you're driving, you guys at least agree that you're going to listen to music? No, to me, it's always been, you know, driver gets to kind of dictate what gets played. And I find myself driving probably 100% of the time.

That's a convenient rule, Justin. Yeah, so he drives all the time and I'm listening to the angriest music when I'm such a happy-go-lucky person. It reminded me of a time in college. I was driving with my roommate and he turned on some heavy metal music and I was like, are you mad at somebody, bro? What's going on?

Exactly. I thought the dichotomy of what you guys both enjoy is fascinating. You just miss out on the good parts of a road trip trip of jamming to, you know, anything like we just, we just never get to jam. So Justin, is this, this rule that you have of whoever drives gets to pick? Is that like, how serious is, how serious about this rule are you? Or are we bending at all? Or is this like a. Oh, it's pretty serious. I feel like if I'm driving, I want to be the, you got to keep the driver comfortable, right?

Do you, but do you, a little bit about me. I don't know if you know this. I fucking hate driving. I can give a shit. In fact, I'm often like, Natalie, you're driving. I'll like, I'll smoke a little weed. So I'm like, can't drive. Like, you know, I, I, I don't like driving. I don't, I know not

all men feel that way. A lot of men like to be behind the wheel. They like the control it offers them. I don't know. Where do you land on that kind of spectrum, Justin, in terms of, do you like to drive? Are you indifferent? Is it an active service? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. You know, I drive for a living. I've got my CDL and everything, so I drive a big rig and everything like that. So do I enjoy taking long distance trips or anything like that? No, I really don't. If you do it for a living, it's the same thing that you kind of don't want to do it on your off hours sort of thing. But at the same time, I kind of just get gotten used to it.

So, Renee, do you, what do you think? Do you like driving? I'd rather drive for two reasons. One, because I'll compromise with the music. I'm cool with throwing on some Tupac or some Journey or, you know, other stuff like that. I get that with Tupac and Journey. Yes. Yes.

Love that. I know that's very conflicting with my love of worship music, but I'm just a weird person. So I'm cool with that. And I get super car sick. So I would prefer to drive because you don't get sick if you're driving in your car. I want to drive because you want to listen to some Christian rock or Tupac. so when you say i want to drive because you want to listen to some like christian rock or tupac does justin do you like do you ever fight her and say i want to drive no i've never had to

fight her sometimes i've let her when she's particularly sick or because i know like the second we get behind the wheel she's gonna be even sicker but i know he likes to drive too like that's that's my thing i know he prefers to drive so we've compromised a few times and like when we'll do road trips we'll listen to comedy and stuff like that but i'm talking even 90 of our trips we barely really take road trips because we have three kids so we're going to the grocery store and it's always what's that rego station and night or pandora is like yeah there's like this oh the Pandora

music just playing every time we go to a grocery store so I get out of the car and I'm instantly like what if you guys just agree and I don't know if this is the solution but because what if you just agreed to like listen to both Christian rock

and hard metal on your own time? And couldn't you find things that... Because it sounds like you guys both agree that you like some other things together. So can't you guys just listen to that stuff? Because you're both like... And again, no offense to the people who love the Christian rock out there or the hard metal. It's very niche. You really got to be into both to

enjoy it because if you could be christian and not into christian rock be like listen i just need a break from all the judgment and all like you know saving myself and hallelujah praise jesus sometimes i just need to like fucking ah i need to like know where my bitch is at as Tupac would say. I don't fucking know. But can't you guys just be like, there's such a middle ground of available options in music. Well, I've tried that, but he always goes back to the driver chooses.

No, I mean, we do do that. 95% of the time. We go to like soft 90s rock or something like that. And then classic rock is great. Yeah. And then, you know, 10 minutes in the road trip, she's already passed out of sleep.

And then all I have to do is... Now it's time for the heavy metal. What kind of volume do you listen to? I wake her up with my loud music. Oh, baby's asleep. Nine inch nails in your head. Wait, wait, wait. Nine inch nails is not heavy metal.

I know. She doesn't get the idea. Nine Inch Nails is legit. Oh, yeah. She just hears some of the lyrics and stuff and thinks, oh my gosh, this is so heavy metal. Yeah, the lyrics can be a bit strong on Nine Inch Nails. Yeah, I don't listen to it.

I don't think Nine Inch Nails is heavy metal. No. No. No, it's not like heavy metal but but some of the screamers that you just love that they're just so angry i i've taken really a back seat with those ones the ones that are curious i am fascinated what is the interest in that hardcore music where people are just like, Oh, I don't. Like I said, back, back in my high school days, that's pretty much all I listened to and stuff like that. So growing up and starting to like grow out of it. Okay. So it's not so much. Does it pump you up? Is that what it is?

It's just cool music. It's just a way to release, I guess, some anger without releasing anger. Yes, I don't know. No, I'm actually just fascinated because it's really popular. It's like a lot of people like it. And sometimes you wouldn't expect who likes it. I'll be like, what the fuck? Yeah. Totally.

Listen, this is obviously a fun one. It doesn't seem like it's this is this like really how big of a issue is this like wedging into your relationship

like how mad have you guys gotten ever if well I'm a I have a problem I'm super passive aggressive so I don't really argue a lot with it

I just like am pissed off for like 20 minutes after we get out of the car or I'm like pissed off the whole time we're in the car and I turn my knees towards the window away from him because I'm pissed off for like 20 minutes after we get out of the car or I'm like pissed off the whole time we're in the car and I turn my knees towards the window away from him. Cause I'm mad, but there's no real,

real arguments about it. Sometimes we've been mad about like, just compromise. Like we're in a road trip, you know? So I don't have to put in my head, my earbuds and listen to something else while we're driving. But I've, well, that's a real thing. So the question is, it's never about the music. It's about who's picking the fight. I think often in relationships, we always wonder, Justin mentioned you're sleeping, which if you're sleeping, why would you care what music is listened to except if it's heavy metal? If you're not hearing the music, maybe whatever music he listens to is fine.

But also, maybe this rule of who's driving is like, maybe it's a little strong, Justin. Yeah. I'm driving. I mean, I get it to a certain extent. Because again, I know I don't like driving. And I know that Natalie would prefer me to drive and she likes country and I don't.

And when she drives, I just shut the fuck up, you know, because she's driving for me, not because she wants to. So like, there's this like understanding between us. But if it was like,

if I was like, no, I want to drive. And by the way, we're listening to whatever I want to listen to. That can be, that can be frustrating.

I don't think the passive aggressive ever works. No. It always creates more fights. I don't like, is that something when you guys get married that you just,

is it just because you're too tired to fight? You just become passive aggressive? No, I think I'm'm just i'm that way i i came from like a rough marriage before and he's super nice but i just avoid conflict at all costs even though passive aggressive ultimately i know like can create more conflict and doesn't help things in the end but it's just how i revert to because justin seems pretty easy going he's the the end, but it's just how I revert to. Because Justin seems pretty easygoing. He's the most easygoing. Sometimes it's frustrating.

I listen to all this music. Get it all out. Get it all off my chest. I scream it out in the corner. I wonder if I would have a hard time listening to Christian Rock for 30 minutes or Henry metal. I give it,

I give it a lot of flack, you know, listening to it. And it's just like the same verse, like really over and over and over. Of course, she's going to bring up like rage against the machine or something like that,

because they are very repetitive. I think music in general is more repetitive than we realize. And you notice it with songs you don't like. Oh yeah. I think that's fair. It has defense though. It does say the same thing. And it's

super mellow and... It's just a little cheese for me. Christian wouldn't be as aggressive if you gave my music a chance. No, I can't listen to it for five minutes. It makes me want to upchuck. Have you guys like, have you, has there been a situation where you've decided on one either metal or Christian rock and then the other person has really tried to go along and like

it? either metal or Christian rock. And then the other person has really tried to go along and like it. You know, I, I will dip my toes in like nothing crazy. Like I like Nirvana. Like I said, I like Tupac. I like stuff like that, but I just, I, I can't fully conform to raise against the machines and stuff like that. Like the stuff that he listens to is the real screaming stuff. I just can't.

And I make this guy go to church a lot. He's already been well-versed in the kind of music that I like to just jam out to. And he's not a big fan. He's going to church. I just don't get enough of it at church, Nick. I have to listen to it all the time.

And there are, you know, even Christian heavy metal bands and stuff like that, but I don't think she, like, no, everything I listen to is all about, like, kill your parents and, you know, death to everyone around me and screw everybody. Nothing like that. I don't know why i love this couple so much that like you guys make it work you know i think if she took the time to actually listen to some of these songs i mean most of it's just like honestly with fairness it's not like the message and the hard stuff that bothers me because I love Tupac. I love Biggie.

I will jam out to any of them quite often. I actually think it's totally okay to just agree to disagree sometimes in relationships. It seems like there's a lot of things you guys can listen to that's not Christian rock or heavy metal on the way

to the grocery store. If you're on long road trips together, yeah, maybe one of you, like, you listen to my podcast with your headphones on while he jams out and drives and make sure that the volume's at a level

where she can still hear me entertain the public. That would be good if it was at a lower level. That would be gravy because I can still always hear the screaming behind the sound. That's where the music has to be listened to loud. Well, then

Justin, you need to yeah, I think then maybe really just listen on the road. I mean, you're getting your hours in. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I can always do that. Like I said, we're we'll call for my thanks for calling in guys. It sounds like you guys are gonna be great. Just five different music to

listen to. I can do that. Both of you. Both of you. Yeah. Together. Thank you, yeah. And alone, Christian Rock all day long. All right. He just doesn't want to hate me. You know, I hope people have the same sense of humor that you have about Christian Rock.

Not all of us do, I do. All right. Thank you so much. Take care, guys. All right, bye-bye. Bye-bye. And we're back. All right, what a great mediation call. For the people who love our mediations, thank you.

Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. If you're in a fight with your partner, fiance, coworker, best friend, whatever it is. Our goal is to bring you closer together, not further apart. It is not the vile trials, as some have feared. So get your partners and convince your heterosexual relationships, your male partners to do it. They're always the reluctant ones,

Shane. But, uh, I will, every single guy who's come on has been glad they did. I can honestly say. So, uh,

send in those to asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. Shane, back to you. You're kind of take a hiatus from your castmates a little bit. Yeah. That makes sense. I,

I actually quite love that. We always get a lot of, oftentimes, common question, relationship question. Me and my boyfriend, me and my girlfriend broke up, but we have mutual friends. What should I do?

And I often think it's smart that, like, listen, your friends will be there. If they're real friends, they'll be there for you, and they'll understand if you need to take a step away for your own mental health.

You seem like someone, and you mentioned therapy early on, were you even conscientious of your mental health and any struggles you had with it prior to going on the show? Like what's the things that you are grateful for having gone on the show? And are there any things that you think you will be a better person for as a result of going through this very traumatic experience? Yeah. I mean, like I said, I mean, so I've mentioned this before, but I hate bringing it up like ever because I don't want to use it as an excuse.

But my dad did pass away like four months before the show happened. So I was not in a good mental place. And should I have gone on the show? Maybe not. I don't know. But like I still saw it as an opportunity to like, you know, just to put myself out there. You know, just like, I really wanted to do that

and just like, just see what would happen. And so I got on the show. Obviously it didn't help the situation, I don't think. I think it just amplified what was going on in my life. And that really did help. Who knows where I'd be if I didn't see myself on TV and I'd just be stuck in this rut the whole time yeah because i almost weirdly think it could there's a positive spin on it because people kind of have to hit rock bottom to try to change yeah

you know people don't change very easily i mean rock bottom i don't know if it's the best description but there's an element of you you seem like for all the things you've been through and despite you kind of venting here it does seem like you're trying to focus more on what you can change about yourself rather than why you were wrong is that i'm trying to yes yes i'm trying to put my ego aside on all this kind of stuff and like i literally am trying to be you you know, a better person. And when you watch stuff on TV, you learn so much about yourself. You really do.

It's wild. And I'm trying to make those steps to be a better person. And to hopefully do it with my next relationship I'm going to be in. That's something else I kind of want to talk about. But I don't know if I should say it or not. Yesterday. Yesterday was my dad's. My dad died a year ago yesterday i'm sorry yeah and um me and i were we were having a conversation yesterday and on the one day she calls me disgusting human being

all this kind of stuff yesterday yeah so why did she call you just like if if nally was here would she what would she say it she say so it's about this again she's like she still can't get over the fact that the whole Shana stuff what's Shana stuff though

like the pod everything outside of the pods like me so when the first five episodes dropped

she was getting hate really bad too okay okay so we were we were communicating we were talking and i want to make this very clear me and her have hung out once in a group setting never single

never alone never hooked up nothing like that whatsoever shana okay just want to make sure yeah yeah and you're saying you hung out in the group setting while filming or post show post show no post show because once our we like kind of like bonded on the fact that we were both getting murdered on this show for the part of us we reached out by the way you were like because they're the only two that can understand what we were going through there during that time i couldn't my friends didn't understand like oh just blow it off blow it off i'm like fuck you guys how do you want me to blow this off and it was nice to talk to someone who was going through it it's just me in the ukraine crisis unreal and

genuinely empathized. Yeah, that was wild. And also, by the way, you were single. You guys could have been fucking going to swinger parties every day if you goddamn wanted to

at that point, right? Yeah. But in a vacuum, like, without any of the social conditions, like, do you feel like there is still that, like, kind of chemistry

between you and Shayna? Okay. No, I just think she's a great, she is a good person. We all have things we have to work on, obviously. And I don't know her that well,

I guess, but like, I don't think anyone deserves what she's getting all the hate for either. And no, there's nothing there. She's engaged.

She's happy. I'm happy for her. I'm very happy for her. There's nothing there whatsoever. It was just more of like a bonding on the show situation that was happening there and so it was and no offense when when we talk it's gonna come off as flirty because of our past relationship it's just i don't give a shit why are you allowed like you know what i think it is too is like because interestingly enough

the show is called love is blind right so much of the show is based off of not knowing and you and Shana look like you fit the people project that on to you guys must be fucking kind of thing

oh for sure if I was you guys I would definitely assume that for sure also if you were who cares well not now

because she's engaged but then sure but back to like Natalie I don't it it's just, I don't get the. Because we tried rekindling it. We were there this past weekend. We were hanging out and she said she still just can't get over it. But when you say try rekindling, like you guys were still single.

Yeah, we were still single, talking, just hanging out. That's what it was. Did Natalie seem to have a problem with like attention? Like, you're in Chicago, you must be, you're tall. That's what it was. Did Natalie seem to have a problem with like attention? Like you're in Chicago. You're tall. You walk into a bar. Everyone's noticing you. Do you think Natalie

has a jealous side to her? I think we all do. When the show just comes out, I think everyone does because that attention that you're seeing is kind of unnatural. It's kind of,

it's a lot to handle for anyone, I think. And yes, do i get jealous of like if i see her going on do stuff sure absolutely this early on for sure i feel like the answer is obvious but also i feel like it's not are you done with natalie i am now yeah officially it's over and i actually for the first time i can confidently say that if you asked me that a week ago even i wouldn't be able to answer that question for you.

And that was mostly based off your conversation you had with her last night. So you're done with Natalie. Do you think right now, focus on your mental health, focus on therapy. I mean, listen, if the right person comes along, fine. But now that you have this kind of realization that you're closing the chapter on you and Natalie,

in a perfect world, if you could write your kind of timeline for your love story, do you think you need some time as a single person to process or not? You do. Oh, I do. I can't, yeah.

I mean, I haven't been on one date since the show aired. Sorry, since the show finished. Except for Natalie's the only one. When we tried rekindling, that's the only dates we've ever been on. But those new abs, I feel like they want to get some work in. That's probably why I have abs right now, because I'm not going on dinner dates and eating like shit and drinking. Let's be real.

The abs are like, show me off. Yeah. You had quite the transformation. Let's be real. They have to be like, shut me up. Yeah. You had quite the transformation. I know. Yeah. You look great. Thank you. You're better looking in person.

Well, that makes me feel good. Yeah. Thank you, though. Don't you think so? The words of affirmation is all I needed right here. Thank you. There we go.

You're very authentic. No one can accuse you of anything. Right? I mean, I just don't. whether you like shane or not like shane f for this you are certainly your truest self in closing and we've highlighted a little bit i'd love you to summarize like what's where would you like to be in a year with things that you're hoping to work on for yourself? What's stopping you from being the partner you want to be to your next partner? And what are those things that you plan on working on the next year so that you can be, you know, no one's perfect, but you can be in a better position to give the love that someone needs for themselves as well. I need to be a better communicator on how I react to certain things, 100%.

That's the number one thing I want to work on is the way I am. It comes off. I'm very passionate. I'm a louder person. That's just how it comes off. I need to learn how to not be so reactive to everything and just have like, cause like, that's just not a healthy way to do anything with your partner whatsoever. And I do that and it comes off into a bigger fight usually. And I just need to be able

to handle, I need to control my emotions a lot better to be honest with you. It's the number one thing I need to work on. Like listening, I'm getting better at listening already and, you know, accepting i do have faults a lot i've been alive a lot of faults i know that um you're very good at admitting fault yeah i mean i'm not i'm not a perfect person like you know i always say it's like dude you put anyone on tv you're gonna see you you all we all have faults we all do this it's like yes i got into an argument how many times have you got an argument with your girlfriend your spouse or your husband you know it's like yeah it's just like, yeah, it happens, but

I got to learn how to handle those situations better. Because whether it's on TV or in life, you're a big guy, and a reactive big guy can be very intimidating. That's the last thing I want to do with my partner is ever intimidate them or make them uncomfortable, and so

I need to learn how to control that. Shane, this has been fun. Yeah. You were very honest. That's all I want to do. I really appreciate it. Final thoughts. What would you like to say for yourself?

For yourself. That's not a, like, what would you like? I just want to, so. Explain yourself. What do you have to say about yourself? Explain yourself. I have trials. Explain yourself for explaining yourself.

I wanted to speak my piece today, but I wanted to not go unnoticed that Natalie is a good person, and what we went through was very traumatic for both of us. I just had a lot to get off my chest, and it's going to come off that how I said everything today, but she does. I mean, I don't wish ill will on her. I don't wish her to get hate at all.

I just had to speak my truth today. Your goal is to be understood. Yes. It's not about trying to bash her or bash her name. It's about me trying to... I just wanted to speak my truth. I always wanted to say my piece once. Because they've been doing their own shit outside of the show too.

Podcast and all that kind of stuff. And I haven't been able to do anything yet. And I'm just like, I'm glad I finally got my word out there. Well, a lot of people are going to hear it. I know they are. That's why I came here. Well, thank you very much for being your most authentic self. Not sure what's next for you,

but if we ever see you on the screen again, you were made for reality TV. You're a producer's dream. is that a good thing or a bad thing it all depends you're willing to be yourself i mean all all a reality tv producer ever wants is for you to be honest while you're mic'd up about how you feel about any given situation and that is you that's definitely me that is... I can't fake it. That's the thing, too. I'm not faking anything.

As a reality TV producer's dream. So if you ever go back on, you are welcome back to speak that truth. Open invitation. I love it. As well, you are a very generous guest, Shane. And we appreciate that.

Oh, I don't like that. That's not good. What are you talking about? A very generous guest. That means I gave a lot of good stuff today, maybe, and it's not going to come out good for me. And we appreciate that. Oh, I don't like that. That's not good. What are you talking about? A very generous guest. That means I gave a lot of good stuff today, maybe? It's not going to come out good for me? It was honest. It was just honest. You know, like, lots of times you interview people and you get the, you know, the... The political answer. Totally. They talk for two minutes

without saying anything. Yeah. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. We appreciate Shane coming on. Don't forget, again, to send those questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. We'll be back next week for our Going Deep episode.

More Ask Nick's on Monday. For those of you tuning in to Shane, remember, if you are into relationships of any kind, we have people calling in with their stories or situationships or long-term problems, and they're looking for some honest feedback about a better handle their situations and see it more honestly that's on

mondays all things bachelor related and other pop culture on our tuesday episodes in bachelor's not on right now but we're still updating you on the stupid shit everyone does in bachelor nation if there's any updates on on filming and things like that and then uh next week going deeper we have uh a billionaire a woman billionaire who basically in not basically essentially or invented i as i understand it uh female viagra and she made it created it she sold it to a pharmaceutical company they i think like shelved it and so she made it, created it. She sold it to a pharmaceutical company. They, I think, shelved it, and so she bought it back, took back her power

because she didn't think it was being properly utilized. And such a fascinating thing in terms of, how does this work? Female Viagra, the sex drive, I think it's something obviously men struggle with, but I feel like a lot of women would be interested in that. Cindy Eckert. I'm really looking forward to this interview. obviously men struggle with but i feel like a lot of women would be interested in that cindy eckert uh i i'm really looking forward to this interview we're gonna be sitting with a billionaire that's

cool uh obviously well uh so much talk about how she got there uh women in the workplace business also like to sell something and then to buy it back. Fascinating story. And I'm sure we can learn a lot about just sex and sex drive with women and men and what caused her or motivated her to do this. That's our next week episode of Going Deeper. So a lot to unpack. We got some great episodes for you coming out. Thanks for listening.

Don't forget to send in those questions. Subscribe, rate, review. We'll see you next time.