The Viall Files - E407 The Ultimatum and a Clayton Scandal? With Andrea Russett

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor Gossip Edition! Today we are joined by Musician, Actor, and Internet Personality, Andrea Russett. On this episode we start off talking about Andrea’s music career, what her new single means to her, getting the courage to do live shows, and transitioning from being a YouTuber to another creative outlet. We also dive into some Bachelor Nation drama, talking about a TikTok where someone alleges they hooked up with Clayton, the truth of what actually happened, and who is making clickbait about Nick. We also then dive into the craziness of The Ultimatum on Netflix and get thoughts about the couples, who we think will last, and who is probably doomed to fail. We also talk about the importance of compatibility, Colby’s stupid cowboy hat, how the two proposals were fake as hell, and how this is the most realistic reality dating show.  “It was a lot of listening to respond, not listening to understand.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rakuten: Start all your shopping trips at rakuten.com or get the Rakuten app to start saving today. Wondery: Listen to Even The Rich: Marilyn Monroe on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @andrearussett @ultimatumnetflix Andrea’s single, “Butterfly Wings”, out April 15: Pre Save link: https://createmusic.fm/butterflywings See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files freestyle edition covering ultimatum. Woo, boy. Do we have a lot to talk about? And then we got some Bachelor scandals. Scandals or lies. Lies, who knows. Fallacies. And we have my dear friend Andrea Russett back with us. Hello, hello, hello.

Second time appearance on The Vile Files. Here to talk about her new single. Yes. It's called Butterfly Wings. Files. Yes. Here to talk about her new single. Yes. It's called Butterfly Wings. Amazing stuff. Yeah. Can't wait to get into all that with you. Just a couple housekeeping stuff.

We have the very fascinating, very wonderful Chloe Cherry from Euphoria with us tomorrow for a Going Deeper episode. We'll be chatting with Chloe. I think I mentioned I had the pleasure of meeting her at a... And Allie and I had the pleasure of meeting her at a party. Just so kind and friendly. We'll probably get her thoughts on...

I asked her to watch The Ultimatum as well. I was curious. So we'll talk about that, certainly, with Chloe, as well as her time on Euphoria. Obviously, she has a very fascinating past. She left her hometown at 18, got into the adult film business. Now she is an actor on the biggest show in Hollywood.

Also, and like I said, she was so nice. It's refreshing. When we met her. So she's with us. Next week, I can't say who, but next week's Going Deeper, we have one of the couples

from the ultimatum. No way. Yeah. I want to say who because I can't believe they're together. And also, they've advanced

the relationship to a point where it's like, oh, wow, okay. That happened. I don't know what I'm allowed to say so I'm not going to say it to a point where it's like, oh, wow. Okay. That happened. I don't know what I'm allowed to say, so I'm not going to say it. Yeah. But it's like they've full on moved forward. Okay.

So at least one worked out. I think more than one worked. I don't know. But like one of the couples will be with us for our going deeper. And maybe we'll just do like an interview and a mediation all in one with them. I was going to say define worked out, you know? Who knows?

Who knows? So much to cover. Let's get into it. Andrea. Yes. So you have a new single coming out. I met you a few years ago and obviously your prominence

came from the YouTube space yes it's where you rose to fame yes and and then i saw you i don't know like two years ago on the internet and you were singing you you were i don't know what you were singing i took a little turn there And I was immediately offended because it was so good and so wonderful. I was offended that someone with a voice like that decided to keep that a secret. I think you did text me right after I posted it. You're like, why the hell haven't you done this sooner? It wasn't like, because so many people, I can't sing for shit. So I really can't be a critic

to anyone with a decent voice. But there are so many people out there with good voices. But like, and they're good. Yeah. And they go out there and they put it on their social

and I'm like, that's good. There's a reason. You're singing. You're singing. It's good. Like you definitely would be kicking ass at the church choir like you definitely should be leading the happy birthday songs absolutely i'm not sure if if it goes beyond that but i was blown away but i mean and again

maybe someone with a maybe someone with a finer ear would would critique you i i have none it's uh sounded wonderful and so i i'm i'm gonna take all the credit for encouraging that for you being like you know what i should yes um so you have a song uh tell us about it so uh i have a song coming out on the 15th of april called butterfly wings. It's the first song that I'm putting out this year. It's also the first song I'm putting out that has nothing to do with love or relationships. It's more about myself and internal stuff. Did you write it? I sure did.

I write all my music. Come on now. I don't know. A lot of people don't. A lot of people with a great voice say, listen, I have a voice. That's all I should... Why do I need to write to?

That's all I should have to do. No, I love writing. That's my favorite part. It's fun. That's amazing. Do we have a clip? We do have a clip. Do we...

Is there more you want to tell us about it? Or should we listen to it and then... Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the gist of it. I shot a music video for it too. And I shot it like just me and a friend went out to the middle of nowhere in Joshua Tree and shot it ourselves. And I'm editing it myself. That's a perfect, you're a good editor.

Thank you. I know that much. So I'm doing it myself this time. I really want to like be hands-on because I feel like every time I do a project and I trust someone else, I'm never completely happy with it. Like there's always like, I would have done that differently. And then, and it'll be available wherever you listen to songs like Spotify. Yes, sir. And what is your hope for this song? I hope that it kind of sets the tone for the kind of music that I'm going to be doing for my EP, which will come out hopefully later this year. I know you said you're doing it by yourself,

like the video, but are you working with a label? I don't know anything about the music industry. I know it's a grind. It's a shit show is what it is. No, I don't have a label. I'm independent, but I have a co-writer that I write with all the time,

and then I have two producers that I work with. It's a very-writer that I write with all the time. And then I have like two producers that I work with. And just like, it's a very small team that I like to just work with. And that's how like a lot of young artists pop, right? Like nowadays, if you have talent, you can get discovered. Absolutely. TikTok, baby. Yeah. Is that as a young artist, are you you hopeful like when you're writing music is there

any part of you that's wondering like could this be a viral song of course like are you when you write it are you are you thinking of like uh like what would do well on tiktok right or like i don't i don't know i don't i'm not very musically inclined but is it like the is it the refrain or the the court i don't know what do they call parts of the song what what are the verse the verse that goes i don't yeah i'm going back to literally like elementary school when i learned like liturgical music like what he heard in church the bars you know are there certain parts of a song that go tikt TikTok or is it just have to do like what makes? Well, you can tell like the stuff that goes viral on TikTok, you can tell who's writing it specifically for TikTok because they want it to go with a trend or they have a trend idea and

write a song for it. It's just such a different world now with TikTok. It like kind of changed the entire music industry. Oh, because I've never, as I've already just pointed out, even listening to music, I'm just not very musically intelligent. I like music. I listen to it. Yeah. But I'm a top 40s guy, you know, and so now… Stick to what you know.

Now when I listen to a new song, I'm oh it's all comes from TikTok yeah isn't that crazy like that song I don't know if you heard the A B C D so that song went viral because her label manager posted a comment on one of her older TikToks and was like can you write a song with the ABCs already knowing that they had this song ready I think her name is Gail yeah that wasn't oh yeah she so she had her manager comment that and then did it, and it went viral because they already had the song ready and they knew it was great. It's just so calculated behind the scenes.

Yeah, it's wild. And so do you have a part of this song that you anticipate could... Not really. I wrote the song not even... Because we'll make up a dance for you and see if you can come. Butterfly wings. No, I don't want to... I didn't write it thinking about TikTok.

I try not to because I like the process. I hope that it... Yeah, of course I want it to. I want to see it on TikTok. Let's hear the song. Butterfly wings, won't you fly me out this city now? You are very good. Thanks.

Congratulations. Thank you. Beautiful song. Thanks. I can't wait until it's going viral all over TikTok. I hope to see you dancing to it. And you must obviously want it to be, people always talk about relatability all the time but like that's

whether it goes viral on tiktok or i guess makes it popular for sure you want to elicit an emotional response from yeah from your audience something people relate to well i can't i can't wait to uh you're on stage singing 2000s oh Oh, boy. Is that the dream? Like, what's your dream for your music career? Yeah, I'd like to be doing shows and touring and, like, music be my main focus. But I also am a bundle of anxiety. So I don't know how realistic touring would be for me. I did my first live show at South by Southwest last month.

How'd that go? It was amazing, but, like, it was, like, very scary. Must have been, like, the adrenaline after. Oh, yeah but like, it was like very scary. It must have been like the adrenaline after. Oh yeah. Afterwards I was like, let's fucking go. It was scary, but it was fun. What was the audience like? Well, I was like the very first person on like a, it was a Rolling Stones exhibit show or something like that. So I was the very first person to go. So, which I was happy about because it wasn't totally full yet. So I had a little bit less nerves. So as someone who has come up through YouTube, you're a big star, right?

I mean, you've had your moments. Yeah. Like you became known very early, right? And in certain spaces, you've been a big star. It's like, I guess it would be like, you know, at the height of me being The Bachelor, I, like, it's like, for those six months,

Yeah. you're treated like a, you know, an A minus B plus celebrity. Yeah. And, and in the YouTube space, you're,

you were, you are, were whatever, a big star, and now you're transitioning to a music career. Is that hard to like,

I guess, humble yourself to to like go on and be the first performer I don't think smaller crowd because like that's like sometimes you have to like it's a struggle though because you for sure you but I also I feel like I stopped doing YouTube probably a year ago like I haven't really uploaded and so I kind of made the choice to step away and kind of like fall back a little bit and lose a little bit of that relevancy so that I could come back as a musician and rebuild an audience.

Like, I think of it as starting from ground zero and building a musical fan base because I have fans that follow me from the YouTube stuff or from anything else. But that doesn't mean that it's going to transfer over.

So I'm okay with starting from the bottom because I want to... So that in mind oh yeah i knew i mean yeah and it's also like all the other influencers that went to music who shouldn't have gone to music like i'm fighting against that stereotype already yeah so i just wanted to make sure i'd do it right that's awesome thanks uh well i i i really hope that you become a big star. I think you have an absolutely incredible voice. Thank you. And I can't wait for people to hear it. Do you like shopping?

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So listen to Even the Rich, Marilyn Monroe on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Allie, Bachelor. There's a big Bachelor. You're up. There's a big Bachelor story. I just yawned so it looks like I'm crying. Very emotional about this Bachelor tea.

I mean, it's been all debunked for the people. Let's, I guess, the Clayton. Spoiler alert. It's been wrapped up, but I'll give a little rundown because I feel like there's some stuff that people don't know. This girl posted this TikTok on Saturday. Very dramatic. Started it by saying, guys, I think I might have just ended a bachelor marriage.

Proceeds to tell us, all of the viewers, that the previous evening, again, she lives in New York. She'd gone out to a bar. This man approached her, you know, asked if she watched The Bachelor. She said no. She'd never out to a bar. This man approached her, asked if she watched The Bachelor. She said no. She'd never seen it. He said he was just on it. They start talking. They end up taking an Uber back to, I guess, his apartment or wherever he was staying, hooking up. As soon as they were done hooking up, he was very abrupt to encourage her to go home. And then she got home, decided to Google his name, saw that he was still with his top pick or his final rose pick,

and that they had just posted like together the day before. So she was with this guy physically and claims to have looked him up on the internet and still... After. And still was... She claims that she was under the impression

that it was this same person. She didn't google him until after they'd hooked up sure no i understand that yes but after she had yes got naked with this person yes and at some point i'm sure the lights were on yeah but i suppose you know you meet someone late at night you're drinking you're both drunk you know you go home lights still off i guess there's an entire, like, you can go through a whole hookup without really getting

a good look at someone's face. That is entirely possible. Yeah. Very possible. Yeah. So she gets home. Andrea's like, it's far too easy.

Let me. It's like, I put a bag on my head for this. Do not look at me. So I guess that's possible. And then. Yeah.

So she gets home, Googles him, finds all this out, is like, if it, he told me things. Didn't then... Yeah, so she gets home, Googles him, finds all this out. Is like, if... He told me things. Didn't go into detail, but she was like, why would you tell me these things

if you had a fiance, if you had like a wife? Claims that she DMs. Oh, when she says, told you things like, you're the best, hot, you're the most wonderful. Maybe, yeah.

She didn't go into detail. Not like... Because when you said that, I... What if it was like Bachelor spoilers that weren't real? When you said that, I thought he was like, you told me things about like the show. Maybe. Like, we don't know.

He could have been like, they paid me $72 million. And so then apparently she's like, I DM'd his fiance because she deserves to know, blah, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. Did not specify who it was. But people. A little background story on this person. She, I think, identifies herself as somewhat of a TikTok influencer. She's had two TikToks go extremely viral. One has like 33 million views and it's her eating eating cake smashing like cake in her face her tiktok after a click quick glance comes across as someone who i mean it's on tiktok is seeking attention

and and by any means possible but also i think it's something when you have a pop like this she had a tiktok have 33 million 33 million views that is insane and then she had another one have 8 million views also insane and now she has like 157,000 followers on tiktok so uh safe to say that all of her followers came from that those two tiktoks so what what the reason i point that out is because what that does it there's a there's there's a kind of a parallel between you know going on the bachelor in the sense that like you have this pop of fame this pop of attention and it's even more fleeting when it's a single t or two TikToks. And you get this buzz, you get this follower, and there's this immediate, it does something to you in your psychology. It does something to you to want to like keep it going.

Oh, yeah. It's addictive. You want that like adrenaline rush of like, oh my God, I'm going viral. Everybody's watching. Yes. So those are just some background on this person. And from a personal experience on The Bachelor,

you know, and Andrea can speak to that, being from the YouTube space, and we've met a lot and interact with a lot of people who have a pop. We've had our own pop. We probably felt that feeling in ourself to want to keep things going. And sometimes you ask yourself,

is this, do I want to, I don't think I should be doing Like, am I willing to do this? Should I do this? Is it right? I don't think so. Like, certainly lying is a non-negotiable. For me, I'm going to assume the same for you. Oh, yeah, no.

But for other people, not so much. So, she posts this video, obviously starts to pick up some real traction. And people start guessing in the comments because she said he was just on The Bachelor, still with his final rose pick. So people narrow it down. They're like, it's got to be Matt James or Clayton. And she implies in the comments or indicates that it was Clayton. Then ended up turning all the comments off. So that was lost. But at one point she did confirm it was Clayton. Now it's like, did Clayton cheat on Susie? Clayton then decides to make a statement.

He does an Instagram video and he's like, I can't believe I'm even addressing this, but let me show you. He has like proof on his phone of significant locations that at that time last night, he was working out with his brother at the gym in Arizona. And he DMs this girl and he's like, so you're saying that you met me at two in the morning at a New York bar? She said,

yes, that's correct. And he was like, so I was at the gym at like 8.30 at night in Arizona. And he was like, even if I took a private jet, I would have not gotten to New York until 3.30 in the morning. So he was like, this was not me. Susie's like commenting, being like, guys, he loves the absolute shit out of me. Like this man would never do this. Shuts it all down. Meanwhile, enter new woman. Her name is Sam.

Wait, there's a new person involved? Sam is an attorney. She finds this girl's TikTok and she's like, hey, I've done this before. We can probably get security footage from your apartment building or from the bar or somewhere. Let me help you, like from a legal perspective.

Pro bono. Track this down. I'm a lawyer, but also a giant Bachelor fan. TikTok is wild. As I love to hear. So they track down these photos of this guy from the apartment building

and there's this photo of him from the back, and it's clearly not Clayton. This photo has now been sent. Well, Sam, the lawyer, now has it. The woman who posted the original TikTok has it. And this girl who posted the TikTok has now since published an apology of that it wasn't Clayton, and that Sam fully has the photos and is kind of willing to share them with someone who would ask would ask for them but whatever do you know who this Sam person is yeah so she did a live last night with Zachary Reality and they debunked the whole thing and

she was like oh I'll send you the photos like I don't really care so how old is this Sam person maybe like 20s 30s she seemed young but so she's a young lawyer. It was just a wild, like, through the power. She's really just wanting to, like, put to use all this knowledge. She's, like, you know, cultivated over the years of law school, and she's out there. It's great. And she's using it to defend Clayton's honor. So that's kind of how

we tied that up with a bow. It just doesn't, like, so what, did she genuinely think it was Clayton? That was my question. Like, was she just really drunk? I think, is, like, did she really think it was clayton that's what that was my question just really drunk i think is like did she really think it was one of the two possibilities that she was really drunk she's really drunk and a little sloppy a little careless like you look like clayton and then woke up if she put it out there knowing it was a lie for attention some people are dumb enough to do that a lot of people a lot of people. A lot more than you would think. But I think it's somewhere usually in the middle.

Yeah. This just in, I got us some exclusive content from my good friend, Zach. He sent us the photos from the security footage. Because as I mentioned, he did the live with the lawyer. She offered to send him the photos. Now he's sharing them with us. Okay. From my perspective,

this man does not look like Clayton. Let me see. He has very dark hair and he seems very lanky. Not like Clayton whatsoever. Not even close. This is from the back.

Yeah, it's a white dude with brown hair. He has like very dark hair. Like dark, dark and it's not curly. At all. How tall is she? Turn that. I have no idea. At all. How tall is she?

I have no idea. Because Clayton's tall. Clayton's six foot five. His shoulders are very narrow. Like he's a lanky dark brunette boy. Yeah. It doesn't

not like It's not like egregiously not him. It's not egregious. But it doesn't seem like him. But it's definitely not him. It's definitely I mean,

the build is just so, so, so different. She wouldn't, but in fairness, she wouldn't know that. But I guess what I'm saying is, and I can't see his face,

it definitely, I would buy that people have told him from his face, he looks like Clayton from The Bachelor. That's true. It could just be all in the face. And he's tall enough. Yeah.

Damn. What a shit show. Thanks for the content. Last week, I got sent a clip of an interview that my friend Sarah Herron from Sean Lowe's season. Okay.

Sarah, I was on Paradise with her. They sent me a clip. She went on the Game of... Roses. Game of Roses. Thank you. I always say Paradise with her. They sent me a clip. She went on the Game of... Roses. Game of Roses. Thank you. I always say Game of Thrones.

She went on Game of Thrones? Season 8? Good for her. And they did an interview with her. And there's hundreds of Bachelor podcasts. And there's a handful of podcasts that were started by fans who have cultivated some success in the podcast space.

Game of Roses is one of them. And I think part of their recipe is bringing on contestants from the past who they can get access to because they don't have to go through Warner Brothers

and all that stuff. Managers. And they get people who haven't done an interview or two in a while. And they seem to be more willing to, I think there's a deliberate playbook, right? They seem to be like, well, you haven't been on in five years. And then these people come on and be like, you know what? I'll say whatever the fuck now.

Talk some shit. Yeah, let's talk some shit. Anyway, I love Sarah. I consider her a friend still to this day. I haven't talked to her in forever, but like friendly. And I got sent a clip. And the clip was someone was like, it was a clip of Sarah saying,

Nick slid into my DMs. I was like, what the fuck? Like, what is this? Did you slide into her DMs? Where is this coming from? I'm like, no. But also like the clip was like, what the fuck? Like, what is this? Did you sled? Where is this coming from? I'm like, no. But also like the clip was like, made it seem like I,

like some might've recently done it. Yeah, yeah. Clickbait, obviously. And then I listened to the clip and so like out of nowhere, and well, first she's just like, she was referring to like when we first met. She was like, let the record show that Nick Biles slid into my DMs. like implying that that's how we first connected yeah and then they had

like a big ooh moment from it and then um and then and then they asked her if i knew that i was going to be the bachelor when i said yes to paradise and she correctly responded no and then but proceeded to follow up unsolicited by saying no but he probably campaigned for it which she has the right to that's her own opinion of hers that's that's her right to speculate but and i'm granted i'll acknowledge probably sensitive to this topic but i was just just like, so out of left field. I will, as far as the campaigning, you either campaign or you don't. Yeah. Campaign's like a public thing.

It's either, I guess you can campaign privately, I suppose. Within the network or whatever. You know, below. But like campaigning to be the bachelor has the adverse effect. It never works. If you were to campaign, and people have in the past, you become the lead in spite of it, not because of it.

Yeah. Like when I was, after Andy's season, they made Chris Soules the bachelor. And granted, this is a long time ago. This is when social media was different. I don't even think Chris was running his Twitter. But every time he would keep retweeting people,

he'd be like, farmer needs a wife. You need to retweet every single one. I don't think he knew better. It was kind of endearing. And they were like, Chris, you got to stop this. You got to knock this off. And the other people that come to mind who actually campaigned,

Jason Tardik did a little bit. Blake. And when they made Colton the Bachelor. And it's fine if you do. But it's out there. It's like, I've never done that. So anyways, she has the right to speculate. And then later in the episode, she out of nowhere goes,

well, I mean, by the way, what Nick DM'd me wasn't in any way romantic or whatever. He probably deems that everyone. I felt like she caught herself like she realized but when you say slid that implies something yeah

I listened to it and like she definitely at first made it seem like a little like he slid into my DM and so like I consider Sarah a friend

so like I haven't talked to her in years so I wrote her I go hi Sarah she's like So like I haven't talked to her in years. Yeah. I wrote her. I go, hi, Sarah. She's like, oh, shit. I DM'd her. I go, hope you're well. Sliding back in.

You're like, this is what it means to slide. I go, hope you're well. Out of curiosity, why are you telling people I slid into your DMs? Oh, God. She goes, hi, Nick. I don't know if you listen to the podcast, but I said it was in a non-hitting on way. She did 20 minutes later, but because you were, are someone who got to meet everyone, definitely never said it was anything more than that, but I did deliver it as a joke.

But if it was in poor taste, I'm sorry. I felt it was pretty clear that I said it was a joke, recalling it as somehow I met. That's all. I hope you can see it as just that. I wrote, gotcha. I go, that and saying I campaigned to be the best just was kind of out of left field. Anyway, looks like you're doing great and happy. So that's nice. Back to this story. I feel like, yes yes i think there was a lot of alcohol involved i think uh oh and another reminded me of when i was in college uh i ran track and i knew a lot of guys on the baseball team and we're in you know this is in milwaukee wisconsin and at the bars a lot of the guys from the baseball team would go up to girls at the bar and say that they play for the Milwaukee Brewers. And they would be like,

oh, I play for, and they'd be like, oh, really? And they're like, yeah, I'm in the minor leagues and we're like up. And so like, they would bank on the fact

that like most of the women they talked to had no fucking clue. Yeah. Yeah. And it worked. All the time. So, but you can't use that lie

if you're like, well, I guess if they're just trying to have a hookup. No, but I'm willing, what I'm saying, I'm willing to bet this person that she hooked up with looks like Clayton. And a bunch of his friends have been like, you kind of look like Clayton. And he goes around and he's just like, have you seen The Bachelor? And most people probably call him out for it. And other drunk people don't.

And actually, that's really shitty if that's what happening it's not okay to do that but people do it the fact that this person thinks they hooked up hooked up with a person yeah and thought it was clayton only to go back to his instagram look at all these photos or watch the fashion and be like that's the guy. And still make a video. And then after people saying it's not possible, she like doubled and tripled down to the length where she was like, no, I need you to prove to me that it wasn't him. To the length where she was DMing Clayton himself

and was like, no, you were in my bed at two in the morning. And after he was like, I'm in Arizona. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I feel like she really probably did believe it was Clayton at one point. Yeah, it feels like the whole like Batman, like I've never seen this person in the same room as Batman. Like it feels like she's trying to do that with Clayton and the dude she hooked up with being like,

I haven't seen them in the same room together. So who's to say it wasn't him? And it's like, it wasn't him. It obviously wasn't him. Can you imagine though? I think based on social media, Susie was shooting a wedding this weekend. She was like doing the videography for a wedding,

which most weddings are on a Saturday when this would have like leaked. So like, can you imagine if this like started going around like on social media while she's in the middle of working a wedding? Yeah, when you get like, if you're like told, you know,

fuck, my first time I got engaged when I was like, you know, one of my buddy's girlfriend was just like, I need to tell you something. She's cheating on you. And your first thought is like, that can't be true. It's not possible. But then you start wondering if it is possible. Yeah. Like, yeah. So imagine if, you know, Susie, when we met, are so impressive.

Love her. And I'm sure she would have been headstrong and calm about it and done her due diligence. But for anyone, it's just a... Initial shock. A terrible thing. Shit like this makes people doubt people. Oh, 100%. It takes credibility away from people

who need to be believed, who need to be listened to, who need to be heard, who experience something, and people doubt them. And it's bullshit like this that makes you go, I don't know.

People lie all the time. It also taints reputations because even though it was cleared up, I doubt that everybody that saw the first video saw it being cleared up. I doubt that everybody that saw the first video saw it being cleared up. She deleted her initial TikTok, but the response is always never as viral as the initial one.

This is someone who has content on her page that seems reactive and attention-seeking. That might not be fair to suggest, but it is on there. And she clearly didn't do her due diligence before she publicly went out there. She could have messaged them privately and waited for a response.

She could have done all this behind closed doors. She could have DMed Susie. Sounds like she got a response. She doesn't have to tell the world. That is all on her. If this was all about having Susie find out and holding him accountable, she did that. She could have just done that.

And then Susie could have decided whether she wanted to call out Clayton publicly, if it were true. Yeah. This had nothing to do with like, yeah, I, I, I don't, I can't get on, on that level with you. I'm 50, 50. Yeah. I don't think she should be like bullied online, but I think it's, I don't empathize with her being a vic like this guy whoever this guy is if he lied about that that is shitty clearly yeah but it's clearly not clayton you know what i'm saying like dean look look on instagram and do a side by side when you're at the par you know and like and if if she were too drunk i don't think blaming it on the alcohol of like, well, I thought it was him.

I didn't get a good look at him. Well, did she say that she's never seen the show? She claimed she had never seen the show, which is entirely possible. There is apparently a video from earlier this year of her saying, my friends think I should be on The Bachelor. Now, that doesn't mean she watches it. It doesn't mean she watched this season. She could have been an OG fan

and just haven't watched in a few seasons. So, that's neither here nor there. She did also say, like, when she first met him and he was saying he was on the show,

her first impression was that he was maybe on, like, The Bachelorette and was one of the guys as opposed to being, like, the lead on The Bachelor. Yeah. So, like, I don't know.

Either way. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't have any sympathy for her being, like, I don't know. Either way. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I don't have any sympathy for her being, like, duped into making this video. My question is, if this guy's going around

saying this, what would his response be if, like, let's say Amanda and I go to the bar? Clearly, we know this franchise very, very well. Someone comes up to us and goes,

do you watch The Bachelor? If you're like, yeah, actually, we know every single person. Would he just be like, okay, cool, have a nice night? Yeah. Oh, well, this guy,

if this is what happens, some guy came up to this girl and pretended to be Clayton, this isn't the first time he's done this. And yes, he's been called out and saying, you're not Clayton. I know what Clayton looked like. You're not Clayton. He's probably like, you're right, but can I get you a drink anyway? 100%. That's also like a terrible first line because I

feel like a lot of women in their, like, 20s do watch the show. Like, that's the prime, that's also like a terrible first line because I feel like a lot of women in their like 20s do watch the show like that's the prime that's the audience but to Amanda's point maybe it's just like

he's like I know but I kind of look like him and maybe that's all and I'm already you're already associating me with this man from TV even though I am

blatantly not him and it's 1245 and we all have had about five drinks and everyone's hoping to make some bad decisions. Like that's, I think, yeah. And if the guy shouldn't do that and this guy will never be identified.

I wish he would be. Let's get Sam the lawyer. Yeah, Sam the lawyer. Sam, their prince. That's, yeah. Sam the lawyer. I do him. Sam. Their prince. That's how, that's how this person can redeem herself. Try to track down this guy.

Yeah. I'd like, I'd like to see his face so I can see if it really is similar. Yeah. I do. I want to be like,

I'd like to be the judge of that. Like he barely has, he doesn't have curly hair. He's just, he's basically, he's a white man. He's a white man over 6'2". All right. It's ultimatum time.

Oh, boy. A lot of reactions, a lot of opinions about this show across the board. I think the overall, it's either great or it's trash, but everyone's addicted. What did you think Andrea that's what I want how I want to start honestly I had high hopes I feel like I get what they were trying to do but I think I think it's just like obvious that everyone on the show is is headed for breaking up like I don't think that going on the show is going to save anyone. Oh, you're interviewing a couple next week on Going Deeper that is fully pot committed, as I understand it. They're pregnant.

They have made irreversible commitments. I have no idea. Irreversible? Okay, well, then I know what that means. I feel like they're pregnant. Oh, my God. I don't even know who it is, and I feel like it's April and Jake, and they're pregnant. Oh, I hope it's not April and Jake.

They need to be far away from each other. Get them away. Get them away. Life's not to fly. I cannot say. And I'm not confirming anything that was speculated in this room.

But they're together. Okay. And I don't think they're breaking up by next week. Well, my thought at first, the first episode I watched it, my first thought was,

how the fuck can they, who would do this show? My first thought was, this is bullshit. Yeah. Because it's one thing to go on The Bachelor or Love is Blind, and you know,

like I'm single, YOLO, like fuck it. I've been single for a couple years. I'll do this shit. I'll meet some people. Like maybe I'll fall in love. But for two single for a couple of years. I'll do this shit. I'll meet some people. Maybe I'll fall in love. But for a young couple who are in love, I don't have a problem with that. I know people critique that, but I don't have a problem with that. They're all younger than me.

I get all that, but I don't have a problem with that. Let me finish though. Because, fine, I'll just answer your question now. It's easy for anyone who's older than any of these couples to say, oh, but they're so young and like they don't know any better. But I remember being that age and I remember being in love at that age. And I remember being 23, 24, having a deadline of being 25 and having a family and getting married and being a kid and having a car, like growing up in the Midwest and having parents and having siblings, that was like my roadmap. And so when you're in your early twenties and you're in love, you're not thinking,

you know, it's like some people do, but most people aren't like well you know let's wait 10 years and and like no you're like you're in love and the next logical step is marriage that's what our society has taught us and and that's still what most of america believes what ellie's looking at me like just because it's not you i'm glad it's not you i feel like it's so interesting to think about though because like i agree that like I think in, for example, a place like LA, someone who's 23 and was saying, I want to get married, I want to have kids right now, would, I think, be pretty atypical in a lot of social settings. And I'm so curious because there has been this shift from before,

women would get married before graduating college. It's been a very drastic, recent change. And I'm curious what the breakdown would look like now in the country. Which parts where there's still that kind of internalized standard of like, I can get married and have kids at 23. I think if you go to any part of middle America or the South, it's pretty standard to still get engaged and married in your early to mid-20s. All I'm saying is,

let's not pretend that these six couples were hard to find of people in love who feel like their relationship is ready for marriage, that the next logical step is, I want to get married. They like, that is what it's not, not only not rare, it's still more common than people who decided to like live in the LA, New York or major metropolitan areas who are more career focused and are actively saying, I want to wait till I'm 30. There's plenty of people, there's more people than ever before saying that, but I still don't think it's the norm. And so that's why, and the reason why I like that you have young couples is because, and why I've realized, after my first thought of thinking this is insane, who would do this? I honestly thought this was the

most realistic reality TV dating show about love and dating. You had real conversations. And what I also liked about this, which you also, like the people who make the show, Glove is Blind, the same production company. Listen, Bachelor has its place on TV. But I love how they keep referring to these as experiments because they are. They're crazy situations and they're not pretending that this is normal. Yeah. They're actively calling it an experiment. And you're, and I think it's, I think it's the, as, as viewers, we can learn a lot about ourselves and relationships and you're getting like all of these fights we saw with all these couples are insanely relatable. Yeah. Right. Uh uh and it's not one-sided it's not like all the men looking like crap or all the women looking like crap everyone's messy everyone has

has toxic traits they're showing everyone has redeeming characteristics they've shown like and that's why that's why i really find it to be compelling and enjoyable because I think it's really a great social experiment on how do you why are you in this relationship because so many people calling to ask nicks and so many people out there and so much of what my like my book is about is trying to really figure out like what are the important things to go on in terms of choosing a life partner are you there because you've been with them for so long? Are you with them because you've always told yourself that you can't see when...

I don't doubt that these people... Everyone here is in love, and I believe that they're in love. I really do. But they all are in love, but they all have some serious questions about compatibility. And I think this show really focuses on compatibility

and the importance of compatibility as it relates to finding the person who's right for you for the rest of your life versus someone you have chemistry with, who you have strong feelings with, who you've built a connection with, who you've built a bond with, you've built trust with because, well, they've been your ride or die for the past year or year and a half. They've been your ride or die for the past year or year and a half. And I think that's what I like about it. And I think once you get past the, like, this is insane, who would do this? I think so you get some really captivating television. Did you ever watch Temptation Island? The very first season, like, when I was in college. Because it reminded me of that in a much more, like, grounded, authentic way of, like, that was a show where it where it was like couples would go on and then they would get to they would break up and then they would each live

in a house with a ton of single people of like the opposite gender it was all straight couples and the whole thing was like are you going to cheat on your partner and each week you would get a like you would watch a tiny little clip of like what your partner was doing so but it was like I don't know it reminded me a lot of like this show in the sense of or like I thought this show was interesting was because there was so much of a case for like you should actively explore this other thing yeah like not only is it like uh trying to talk through your own compatibility issues with your partner but like saying you should actively see what it looks like to pursue a relationship with someone else yeah as opposed to this like nobility thing of like no i'm too pure i shall not yeah yeah i don't know think of how many people you know hey we should take a break

i think we should take a break i'm not feeling myself recently yeah you know in life these all these people did that's different than everyone else in the world is they agree to do it on television yeah that's true it is kind of like just taking a break i mean and people do bullshit like this all the time especially people who are young and in love yeah and yeah i mean anyone who's judging the age of these cast members as if like they're stupid in the mission number no better either a you didn't date when you were in your 20s or you forget how how like intoxicating how intoxicating and how you didn't feel as young as you realize you are now. That's true. You know, like, I mean, if you're one of those people who's like 23,

recognizing just how much life they have to live and how young they are, like, you're winning because so many people don't have that perspective. Yeah. It's so hard. It's the one thing that is so hard to teach. You can't teach it. You can't show it.

Like, that's the key to parenting if you can, but like, how you do that because you, it's just hard.

Because if you don't have perspective, then you can't tell that you don't have perspective by definition. And so it's one of those things. You can slowly start. Like I started learning in my mid to late 20s that I didn't like you have to. What do you think catalyze that?

Experiences, living life, going through shit like this. All of these couples are going to get through this experience with more perspective and if and if they're lucky and if they're if they're reflective they will use this as kind of like a reminder of i of what i thought was certain of like april and jake right lord i don't know if they're still together i'd be surprised if they are based on how much Jake hates April. I'm kidding. But April went in with this like, I in knowing my soul will be together. Yeah. You know, like this is about you getting to realize how much you love me.

And quite the opposite happened. And she hopefully will remember how certain she was of how something was going to work out. And then if it doesn't, and hopefully she'll be happier for it. And so to answer your question, you know, being certain I was going to marry my first girlfriend and not. Being certain I was never going to get cheated on and marry my second girlfriend and not. You know? And being heartbroken, thinking I was never going to get over it. And then I got over it. You know, all those things that I thought one thing and then

something else happened made me realize that maybe I don't know everything I thought I knew. Yeah. And you don't, in your early twenties, you're just, you're, you're like three years removed from being a fucking teenager. And you're just, you're just like, I was stupid then. Yeah. And all I know is i'm not stupid now yep and i think you but you haven't really experienced all the things that you are gonna experience like real pain and suffering especially if you were lucky enough to like grow up in a very

privileged like childhood like i was in the midwest and same and and you know relatively taken care of. Like sheltered from a certain amount of life experience. Yeah, sheltered from like virtually everything, you know. And then you go out and you'll see the world and life happens to you. And yeah, I think that's what this show is about. Yeah, I was going to say,

I think that segues into like Zay, because that was something we were talking about earlier in terms of how his past experience and his like his life experience contextualizes his behavior on the show yeah yeah it's it's all all of them to that to that end let's before we break down individuals i mean like there's so much to talk i mean like we're basically covering eight episodes uh we'll cover a little bit tomorrow with Chloe Cherry. Yeah, let's just start. Let's try to go in somewhat order. Alexis and Hunter.

Well, it was how the show starts, where they basically openly date everyone else in front of people. I know. I thought that was weird. They're all in the same room. I feel like it kind of took away from them being able to focus on the dating other people. I know. I thought that was weird. They're all in the same room. I feel like it kind of took away from them being able to focus on the dating other people. I kind of liked it. I thought it was fun.

The drama. You're right. I don't know if it took away from their ability to connect. But maybe their ability to focus on who was in front of them because they're in the corner of their eye. They're watching their significant other flirt and laugh. Well, the biggest takeaway of that whole week

was Alexis and Kobe, eye they're watching their significant other flirt and laugh well the biggest takeaway that whole week was alexis and kobe uh who who alexis couldn't fathom that anyone couldn't be attracted to her yes beautiful one it's attractive but like everyone in this room we can recognize that like not everyone would be into us yeah like that's okay i do like her a lot i mean she came there like determined to get an answer and she got it right away well that's the thing she was just like i like you and then like he kobe didn't want to it wasn wasn't like the way she was like, I think Colby's a horrible person. I know. She went so hard on him.

I met him, and the first thing he told me is, I don't find you attractive. Yeah. Which isn't what he said. Not remotely. In a conversation where you demanded. You demanded an answer. This is after he politely said,

I don't see a future with you. You demanded exactly why, and when pressed, he finally said, I don't feel an attraction. He's like, all right, you're going to make me do this you're gonna make me sad you're not gonna like this they had the conversation the night before and then they went to like the patio date as hunter and madeline are at a table like three feet from them yeah and she basically just rehashes everything they talked about last night which is when colby said we discussed this i feel like we're just going over

this all over again yeah and that's when she really, I feel like, flipped out. And that's when she stopped by the table and to Madeline was like, if you have hesitations, I would really like lean into those because he's the worst.

But what doesn't add up is like, she clearly, she had no problem pressing Colby. And this can't be the, this can't be the first time she was turned out. Well, I also think her emotions were just so high. Like being in that environment, in that situation,

like kind of being like, I need to find somebody because it looks like my significant other is like having success. There was a lot of that early on, which is why I liked that it was happening in front of everyone because you saw, you could see your partner making connections, which puts the pressure on you. Like again, healthy, totally not. Toxic, absolutely. Messy. Great television. And it did lead to these early engagement. I will say

Hunter seemed that both of the proposals didn't add up. Because if I remember correctly, and there's a lot of content, so I might be misremembering, that Alexis's problem with Hunter is that she openly acknowledged that she doesn't want to be the breadwinner. She wants an earner for her partner. And to date, she was currently making more than Hunter. So certainly, in the time that they were hooking up or talking to other people, In the time that they were hooking up or talking to other people, I don't know what she anticipated. Like, Hunter's earning potential didn't change.

So, you know, like, it didn't add up. She said yes to something she previously said that she didn't want. But I think she panicked because she knew she didn't have any other options. Of course, yeah. She also gave the ultimatum. And I don't think the ultimatum was like, make more money. No, it was… Or we're breaking up. It was marry me before we move in together.

That's what it was. And then it seemed like… So it was. I was… But didn't she say… She did talk about money. She did talk about that. She talked about that to Colby, which also I feel like would definitely turn him off

because she was very open about like, I have an expensive lifestyle. Is Colby… I didn't get the impression that Kobe's like Scrooge McDuck here. Like a bad guy? No like having a lot of money. No but like

if a girl comes up to you and is like I just like need you to make a certain amount of money like that's definitely going to be like I don't. It's a huge turn off for me.

Exactly. There are men out there who who it wouldn't be. Yeah. He'd be the type of guy who thinks I can only get a certain type of woman with my money. Yeah. But yeah, I don't think Kobe is that guy.

But yes, both the engagements were cringeworthy. Oh, God. It seemed. Because Hunter seemed sincere. Yes. But it just seemed a little kind of... I guess maybe I'm backtracking.

Hunter seemed sincere because Hunter had options. Mm-hmm. And Hunter chose Alexis. That's true. Fast forward to Lauren and Nate. Oh, God. Nate was...

Nate was the only person and he left early so we didn't get to see that I didn't see a redeeming side of Nate yeah it was just a guy he was

cringy and kind of douchey and maybe he's a swell guy I don't know but he just seemed like the type of guy who couldn't handle

other guys talking to Lauren not only talking to Lauren but other women it seemed like he was more upset that other women didn't like him over some of the other guys definitely he seemed more concerned about uh the women's attraction to him than the other men's attraction to to lauren you could tell that he was very embarrassed when he like said his person that he wanted to choose and she didn't choose him back. And then I think it happened a second time too.

Yes. Which is why he whispered to her like, I'm going to pick you. So it happened, I think twice. And then he whispered to Madeline, I'm going to pick you. And as Allie said, It's like gym class.

It's like gym class. In elementary school. I'm going to pick you. Yeah. Like, yeah. It was very much like that. And then after he realized he had no options and that Colby and Lauren looked in love,

he panicked and made a decision to propose. I personally loved that April and Colby called him out and said it was a bullshit engagement. Yeah. I loved it. Because, and that's when I really, that's when I first really liked April. April is clearly a big talker.

Yeah. Abrasive. Early on, you can recognize quickly, this person could annoy me right she's got a big personality yes and they they showed that so at first you're kind of like oh who's this april person but like articulate and passionate and when she gets going when she's warmed up she made a very valid points and she's like we're fucking here you're quitting on this experiment it's like she's the person you want in line after they've canceled like three of your flights.

Like you want her on the way to talk to the customers. Like she gets it done. Yes, 100%. Like, yes, if a group of people are mistreated, you want an April part of your group. Because she will speak up for sure. And that's exactly what she did in that moment with the assist of Colby a little bit. And even Madeline

calling out like well you just told me 10 minutes ago you were going to pick me like calling him out on that it's like oh god and then Lauren and Nate what was their big what was the ultimatum based off children it was literally based off of children which is like a huge thing that's the non-negotiable of all non-negotiables yes and then they and then

they really after after they proposed they showed that kind of like camera on the ceiling shot and ultimately what it turned out to be is like i don't want you to date other people yeah uh i still don't we still have a problem and. And there's going to be an update. I'm sure we'll hear from Lauren and Nate. I was going to have one of the couples for a mediation tomorrow, but they are traveling and kind of off the grid. I don't know if it was Alexis or Hunter or Lauren and Nate. It was one of the two engaged couples,

but I think they opted out, which makes sense to me it's gonna that's another thing tough watch if you're still with your partner oh man watching that back you you relive it it like rehashes it's one thing to watch the bachelor back or watch like as an individual and even on the bachelor if you get engaged at the end, there's this like, hey, I mean, I didn't know you then. Yeah. You know? But these couples are coming in

with a past and a history and a relationship. And there was some shit. Like there was, as Natalie said, multiple times of watching it, that's cheating. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I literally said that out loud while watching. Like that is straight up cheating. These people are just openly cheating on each other in person. And I'm not talking about the three weeks where they agreed that it was okay. I'm talking about, like, when they got back together with their original partner. And then they had these, like, random meetups with the person, you know. And started, like, gazing into each other's eyes and, like, making jokes.

Not even, like, people on the cast though. I mean, we watched a few of the guys be caught red-handed of talking to girls who weren't even on the show. That was also confusing. Like Colby saying, oh, well, this random girl, I've been turning to her for advice

this entire process. And Madeline was like, don't you see how weird that is? That was all, that, was I the only one kind of just confused by all that? Yeah, that was confusing. Like I was just confused that the show aired that. Every guy's phone had something to hide.

Every Apple Watch and every phone had something. Yeah, yeah. It kept happening. There was a lot of times during the show where I was like, I'm a little confused right now. There was just so much going on. Yes. I was always like, what is going on?

Yeah, constantly overstimulated. Like, one step behind like the meme of the woman with the math or i'm like okay he's dming so and so no because it would be like at one moment i'm just getting over the fact that april went through jake's apple watch and found like someone shaking their ass and i'm like is he talking who's he talking about and then like moments later i'm like trying to figure out why like you know ray is completely dismissing zay and him trying to open up and just like it's like was this so non-stop colby went out to the clubs and he doesn't have a video of april shaking her ass because he probably has one of the

other girl that he met while out of the club we made out with um it was wild carry the two here's carry the two here's what i noticed and let me know if if you guys agree all the people who gave the ultimatum uh colby alexis jake oh no no april nate zay and shanique and i i don't include the two engaged couples because we don't know as much about them. Yeah. The people who gave the ultimatum were the ones in the relationship who seemed more critical of their partners, more nitpicky, more like they're the ones who had an idea in their head of how they thought the relationship should be and how their partner should act and every couple was nitpicky to each other but if you go back it was like that that person had they tried to make their partner into the person they wanted them to be as opposed to accepting who they were yeah like matt that was

a big gripe of madeline's to kobe you saw that with jake you know april you know we love her she's yeah you want her in your group but like april was i could see how but she also could be like a lot of like you know she you know and it wasn't surprising she's close with with jake's mom that girlfriend who like becomes the bestie with the mom and between the mom and the girlfriend they're constantly telling you know the guy what she's fucking up on or how he could be better or what he's doing it's just a lot she spoke very highly of him too though at the same time like she was like i'm the one who ruined this he deserves the world so it was a little bit of both back and forth i mean everyone's, and then, Ray was less, a little bit less Ray with Zay.

She didn't seem to be quite as nitpicky. Shanique, very. I mean, the nitpickiest of them all. She, I mean, she just, everyone had redeeming sides. But like, when she started dating Zay, and Zay was like, yeah, like this, he said, I grew I grew up oh I lived in a car for a while she didn't even hear him she just glossed over it she didn't give a fuck like there was so many people like just not listening to the other person on this show definitely I mean almost like that in fact that was most of yeah most it. But like that moment for sure. I was just like, he just said he lived no follow-up questions.

Yeah. Like not remotely, not a moment to peel back a layer there. It was a lot of like listening to respond instead of listening to understand. Oh, 100%. Especially the fighting. Oh, yeah. If you're watching this, like let this be a lesson of just let that person stop when you're fighting and I know you know when you're fighting we're getting

this fight or flight mode yeah as Darlene my therapist would say we we turn into our child selves um and that's why we do that yeah Yeah. You know, anytime we're fighting with our partners, after five or 10 minutes, you become your child version of yourself. And that's why we do it. But like, we have to learn the tools not to do that. Yeah. You're 100% right.

They were all waiting to respond. They would both say valid things that required the other person to acknowledge what they said. And engage with it and ask follow-up questions. And really think about what the other person to acknowledge what they said. And engage with it and ask follow-up questions. And really think about what the other person is saying. And not immediately dismiss it, not even dismiss it. They would just, they would argue their point. Yeah, they just bulldoze over it with what they want to say.

However, and we're critical, we've all done this, right? Like, and that's what I like about the show. And I think when people watch this, like and that's what i like about the show and i think when people watch this like as opposed to saying oh these people are toxic and oh how could they like other than agreeing to go on the show which is nuts i'll grant you that like i'm kind of blown away that they agree to do this but like all these people like this is real relatable shit especially for people in their early 20s and young, first time in a first serious relationship,

dealing with the pressure and the expectations you have on yourself and your family and society and the fears of like it not working out. If you're in April and you have been like, I know in my bones and Jake being someone who's been in the military and it sounds like she's waited for she's invested in this relationship the idea that she could be wrong is scary oh i was definitely

in april like a couple years back yeah yeah like we've we've all been all these people minus minus zay and his physical inappropriateness with with ray like I don't want to put that on all guys or all people. Like, that's hopefully not the same. But like the toxic arguing and the not listening and the waiting and respond, I think we can all relate on certain moments, which I think is what makes it like a really interesting show. What couple,

were you rooting for any couples or individuals? I liked Randall and, was it Randall and Ray that were together? Randall and Madeline. Randall and Madeline. I liked them together. Randall and Madeline. Now is that a Randall?

But I didn't like Madeline in the beginning. She grew on me. At the beginning, it was like, you hate your boyfriend. Yes. I feel like I'll save you some time.

It's no. I started more Team Colby and then at the end when she started actually being like, when he would say things like, I've never once blamed you or I don't know exactly

what his wording was when her friends were all around the table and even all of her friends are like are you kidding like you just did yeah yeah there was Madeline and Kobe probably both as a couple as a couple and as individuals had the most arc to them on both of them because like even like Kobe stupid fucking cowboy hat. That he fucks in? Does he? They said that at the very beginning

when they were... That's inexcusable. I don't need to know that. They were doing one of their never have I ever drinking games in one of the first few episodes. But there are also parts where I was like,

you know, I like Kobe. There were moments where you're like, he's introspective. He wants to tap into that kind of empathetic, emotional side. I like that. But towards the end, there were definitely very, like, he has a desire, an idea of who

he wants to be and who he thinks he might be. And he's definitely not there yet. Yeah. Right? Yes. He wants to be this righteous, thoughtful, good guy. And I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he is not the person he thinks he is yet.

He thinks he's a girl dad. Like he literally thinks he has like the emotional empathy and maturity of like a girl dad. Yeah. And he's not. Yeah. There was that part where he said like, April's grown so much as a woman over these

past few weeks. And I guess in his defense, like April didn't check him. Like April was like, I have. And like crying with, with Colby. So like, I guess you, but like, I love Madeline's response. Like who the, you've been with this woman for three weeks. You're also not a woman. And who are you to say what it takes to grow as a woman i thought she nailed that yeah you know so it was just like he just kind of has that such a strange thing to say yeah it's just a really but like i and i but i get where kobe might be trying to come from you know it's also like the classic there's and and it also comes from like a mansplaining type of like.

Like, I'm very proud of you. Oh, you did so well, sweetie. And he probably definitely, and I think Madeline's eye roll comes from is, and again, I don't know Kobe, but from watching him over this period, he sounds like someone who believes he deserves some credit for April's growth. Oh, definitely. And I feel like that's Madeline's frustration over him, Colby, saying that was more about her knowing Colby and him believing that he had a lot to do with it rather than April growing on her own. And that's the truth.

Whatever growth April had, it was her willingness to grow. April gave this whole speech to the entire group saying, fuck you guys. I'm suffering here. I want to date this man. I'm scared to death to do this, but I'm fucking doing it because I think it might work. And say, whether you think April's crazy or not, that is someone who, like, is determined, tried to, like, take this, like, radical therapeutic approach to this situation. Yeah, she committed. She put the work in.

She did it. And here's Colby being, like, low-key, passively being like, I did this shit. Well, I feel like when we talk about, like, sparky people, like, in, like, Logan Urie's whole thing about, like, fuck the spark, like when we talk about like sparky people, like in like Logan Urie's whole thing about like fuck the spark, like we base so much weight on like that initial chemistry or attraction, etc. I feel like Colby's the definition of like a sparky person where like we saw everybody, all the women like seem to like notice him at first, think he was like gravitate towards him.

And then when Madeline looked so like cold, you're like, he's so lovely. Like, why are you so, like, withholding from your boyfriend? And then it's like the more you uncover and see the way he actually engages, you're like, oh, okay. I get it now. This doesn't, yeah. Like, sure, he has those good qualities that were apparent at the beginning, but they don't necessarily run as deep as you want them to. It's a little bit of, like, a facade, too,

of him trying to be who he thinks he is, but then it falling apart when he's like you know a little intoxicated or exemplified by the cowboy hat the day he want he wears it

because that's who he wants to be but it's not who he is and that's why it doesn't it doesn't it just doesn't in the photo it's so bad it just doesn't

it's so bad look good and if your girlfriend thinks you don't look good. And if your girlfriend thinks you don't look good, that is like, I feel like as a guy, I don't know how it is for women dating men, but as a guy, and I've always thought of myself as fashionable, and I'm certainly not your atypical male who likes to hunt and fish and wears flannels.

I mean, I like flannels as a fashionable aesthetic. Sure. The way you said that is clearly not a Hunter Fisher guy. It's not. Flannels are a fashionable aesthetic. But when your girlfriend says, don't wear that, you listen.

Absolutely. Right? Yeah. You say, thank you for the feedback. I've been walking around like an asshole. As long as it's done in a nice way. Wearing this thing. Yeah.

No, listen. Yeah. I'm not saying you should, you don't go out there like you're a fucking idiot. You look terrible. No. There's a healthy way and there's a toxic way to give some feedback to your partner. But if that, isn't that the, if your girlfriend hates this cowboy hat, I don't know if you should be wearing it on television is all I'm saying. Like, fine, wear it around the house. Push back. Do that in your own time. Yeah, right? Behind closed doors. Whatever. I like this t-shirt. I'm wearing

it when I watch the game. Leave me alone. I get that, but I don't know if you pack it for the number one streaming show on Netflix. You know he wore that to the airport. He wasn't going to risk crushing that. That's not going in the suitcase. We're all caught up. He wore it to the final scene. He wears it to all of the fancy dinners. Is he from Texas? The final scene. He wears it to all of the fancy dinners. It's in his big moments. He wears it. Is he from Texas?

I think, yeah, we're shooting in Austin. So I think they're all from Texas. It doesn't make it okay. But it does, it does. It's a different aesthetic. It's a different aesthetic. A lot of my family's from South Dakota. My one cousin who's married,

all of the groomsmen had like matching black cowboy hats. It's just a different vibe. I guess. To each their own. I mean, they looked good at the wedding. And then like the,

well, what they called like the first girls night, which was basically, I love how they just basically had these like occasional orgies. Right?

Because that's all it is. It's not like a sexual orgy, but it's just like. Drama. And my favorite. Tell your boyfriend's dick. You know? The best part about

the girls nights though is like I don't know who is in charge of clearing the aluminum cups or why they didn't just get refills in the same one. As the scene progressed it was like

they each had four in front of them. Like the whole table was just littered with them. They constantly have those cups in their hands. Colby and Madeline they're drinkers.

They like to party. Right? They met at a bar. Is that how they met, they're drinkers. They like to party, right? They met at a bar. Is that how they met? Yeah, in college. Fair enough. And at that first, there's a couple moments where Madeline is what I like to call tailgate drunk, where it's just like you've had a whole day of tailgating. Yeah.

And you're playing bags or whatever, and you're doing the shots, and you see that person at the end of a baseball game, and they're being carried out because they can't walk. That was Madeline, at least in two occasions. At Girls' Night. Girls' Night, yeah. She was very, very drunk. Tailgate drunk. Yeah.

Although Colby kind of threw that back in her face at one point. I think it was when she was with her non-show girlfriends. And she was actually like asking him some hard-hitting questions. And he was like, maybe lay off the tequila and like picked up her drink or whatever. Oh, yeah. That was definitely. It's definitely like a prominent thing. It's a thing in their relationship.

And I think it's something they both say to each other is my guess. Yeah. Because like they showed more Madeline moments of Madeline being really soft but like Kobe drinks. Oh for sure.

You know they have the footage. Sure. Yeah. Had it been a narrative they would have used it. Like he just like whips out. He's hiding it.

Yeah. Like he he drinks. Like this is not like it would be disingenuous for either of them to have a

who drinks more fight yeah which is another thing that's like yeah like very grounded in real life of like the way like couples go out and socialize and like whether that's the same and they're enabling one another whether it's different and then there's weird tension like another like a very real thing very yeah like you there's a lot of party couples 100 and that plays a role and and and that's another thing what i thought was really interesting the april and kobe of it all i i found just like from a tv standpoint and watching it the people they picked their new couple the new couples i got used to watching them more than i watched the original couples.

When they went back to their old couple, I'm like, wait, Zay and Ray are together? I was so confused. Yeah. Because it was like, it seemed kind of unnatural. But you looked at April and Kobe and they got together kind of by default at first. It's like, well, I guess we both are committed to this. So let's fucking do it. We're embracing this.

But that kind of like hyper energy they both bring to the table, it'd be easy to say, oh, well, these two should be together. I liked them as a couple in the beginning. But I do think like those two would, I don't think they would ever work out. No, not long term.

Because they're both too much for each other i mean i think i think it shows how it's you want to have a mix in relationships i think of of having similarities and common interests i mean shit my relationship with natalie has shown me more like the value of of liking a lot of the same things. Like when I was younger, me would like to think of someone, myself as, I can love, like love conquers all.

Like I don't need to like to watch the same things or eat the same things because I know how to love and I can get through that. Like I won't worry about trivial things of like the things we and it yes you need to like you have different interests but like I'll tell you what liking the same foods and want and liking the same things is a it's an it's a nice it's amazing huge thing it helps the relationship in a ton of ways oh much yeah and if you have it it is it just like having to not compromise yeah every four times a day

like getting to save that energy for meaningful things because there's not that friction with every little things like well i want to eat this for dinner it's like and like and that when you're first when you first start dating it's like oh of of course, babe. Like, I love you. Yep. We'll like, we'll eat your tofu because like. It doesn't last very long though.

I'm a great guy and I'll eat tofu for you. But like, month six, you're just like. Has a girl made you eat tofu? Well, I did a vegetarian once

and I refused. But, I was never that guy. I was always like, yeah, no, I will eat with you. I have turned every guy

I've dated into a vegan. Yeah, not me. Wow. Yeah. That's an impressive track record.'ve dated into a vegan. Yeah, not me. Wow. Yeah. That's an impressive track record. Let me tell you something. It was not easy.

They all broke up? No. You're not wrong. But they did. They were vegan for a time. We can laugh now. But yeah, and I'm sure they're all like, Andrea, I would do this for you.

Oh, yeah. I'm a great guy. Oh, yeah. And like, you know, all like, Andrea, I would do this for you. Oh, yeah. I'm a great guy. Oh, yeah. And like, you know, vegan and like there's health benefits. Like, I feel so much better. You're so right. I feel so much better. And then by like, there's like, really?

They're like, I can't keep doing this. I need real food. It's hard. It's hard. But yeah, I think another thing I think this show kind of exemplified is the balance of, again, I really think the focus of the show is compatibility you know and that's also something expect me and the ass nicks going forward to talk

about compatibility a lot i thought about this like sometimes i get triggered by something and be like this is a topic we haven't discussed a lot but i think it's important and i'll find a way to interweave it because i don't think couples talk about compatibility as much as they should because compatibility isn't romantic. It's practical. Totally. No, and I think there's also something about like compatibility being when you talk about compatibility,

you can talk about disconnects and connections versus someone's being wrong, like right or wrong. Because I think oftentimes people, if there's not compatibility, then it's like, oh, well, we're not gelling on this one thing. So someone needs to acquiesce or someone's doing something wrong versus just the in base state, you guys want different things.

Ray and Zay, their common thing was Ray wanted someone who, here's this guy who just wants to talk about his feelings, his life, and someone who can listen to. And Ray is, I don't know, she does not like to open, she clearly is a closed off person. Yeah, no communication. And she, I don't think she'd be dating someone who, someone who might have some past childhood trauma

who really needs to be heard and really needs to let things out. And someone like, that's not Ray. Yeah. Right. Ray is not someone who's interested or maybe even capable of doing that. And that should be a non-negotiable. And that's also something that's really hard to find out. It's like a thing that should be a non-negotiable in a relationship. But how do you find that out when you start dating someone early on? Well, I dated someone who straight up told me like the first week we met he was like all my relationships have ended because i don't know how to communicate so i'm just giving you that warning and it took but it took him and i didn't believe him and then we ended because he couldn't communicate and then

you're like but i'm gonna get you to know i was like i can fix you yeah and you're like well my toxic trait is fixing people. I'm a fixer. Did he follow that up, though, with, and since then I've done X, Y, and Z or learned? Oh, absolutely not. There was no work that had been done? No. He was like, this is why all my relationships have ended.

Because I feel like that's a red flag if someone doesn't say this is why they've ended and as such I've done X, Y, and Z. Oh, absolutely. I mean, look at that. If they've not done the work, then. Yes and no. To a certain degree, if you're closed off Y, and Z. Oh, absolutely. I mean, if they've not done the work, then... Yes and no. To a certain degree, if you're closed off, you need to communicate in a relationship. You also, he might, this person you dated, might want to find someone who, like, I don't know you that well, Andrea, but I know you are, in a great way, an emotional person who, like, you write songs, you're an artist, Like, so much of your art is through your emotions.

Yes. It would be a challenge for you to date someone who's like, listen, I'm just not being on the whole, like, communicating thing. I'm an over-communicator. But there are a lot of people, like, I don't know, maybe you want to hook them up with Ray if she's single. You know what I'm saying? Like, there is someone out there for everyone.

Definitely. And yes, people, everyone needs to like improve on their weaknesses, but there are people who are in fact better for you. And it might not be the person you fell in love with at a bar or, or you met on a dating app or the first person you really vibe with and shared some really deep intimate moments and who your mom really likes and et cetera, et cetera. All the things that we stay in relationships for so many wrong reasons. Yeah. All of which sound romantic. And, but it's, it, but, but it speaks to the lack of compatibility.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Leading sucks. We talk so much about finding the one. Yeah. Leading sucks. We talk so much about finding the one. Yeah. But it's not like the one as there's one person. It's the one of many. Yes.

That could be right for me. That I choose. That you choose. Exactly. Yeah. And I think this show is another example of that too. It's just like, you know, I can't, we don't believe in one and only on this show, right? Really?

You do? Like a soulmate? I don't believe in one. I don't know if I do or not. I do not have a definite opinion on that. I think you can have a hindsight view, like when you're 90 and about to die, and you can be like, that was my person. That was the person I connected with the most.

But if looking for a partner, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment and failure to act like there's this one person. Because that's what I feel like, and I've done that, right? I feel like a lot of these young couples we're watching do is like, and why shouldn't they

believe that they found their soulmate with these people? If you're April, why shouldn't you believe that this person that you've had, I'm sure, multiple and many intense, beautiful moments with and struggles, and you've had to fight for these struggles and we're all told that we have to fight for love. Yeah. And why wouldn't you believe that this person should be your soulmate despite a lack of compatibility because we all so often that's that's that's what movies tell us all the time movies tell us all the rom-coms in the notebook movies tell us fuck compatibility compatibility doesn't matter because if you're

willing to fight for it, and it works out, it'll all be worth it. Yeah. It's just so far from reality. Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, if you view that there is one and only, it means that person has like a monopoly on your, like, love life.

And that there's nothing that they can do that will be truly a fireable offense because they're your one and only. They're your one and only. They're your person. Yeah. So that's why it's just like, if you, I don't think you need, you can't shop. It's like, you know, you can't shop that way. You can't shop thinking there's this

one pair of shoes that you're looking for. You have to have an idea of a pair of shoes. Yeah. You know, or a pair of pants or whatever. And they'd be open to like finding, being surprised and they'd be open to like finding being surprised and and things like that so yeah i i don't think the the one and only but yes i do think uh it really speaks to the importance of finding someone who really you can be compatible with who who you can feel we talk so much about how do you feel in a relationship because I think this show is a perfect example of most of these people, they got to the ultimatum about their feelings. Yeah. But how they communicated those feelings

seemed to be in an unhealthy way. I mean, Shanique all the time, it was every moment talking talking to Nate it was like they're finally that's why I thought it was good for for Shanique is it wasn't until she saw Randall and Madeline have a connection and the only like I thought her most likable moment was when she finally I mean she's a stunning person she seems to have a lot going for her but when she finally was like then it kind of was like april it's like they thought they were going to do this show which gave some context to why you're like oh why would anyone do this show

yeah at least with april and shanique you saw two women admit well i thought they would date other people and realize how great we have it and want to date yeah very relatable oh for sure only to find out that you know uh april jake and and randall were kind of like you know what you you make me feel small a lot yeah you saw like a lot of the oh you saw a lot of couple both sides like emasculate and minimize their partners and nitpick and it was just you know and i think every couple does that but like especially young couple i mean i don't say i'm so thankful natalie and i don't do that in our relationship but i've i've been in relationships where we've done that you know yeah um and it and sometimes it happens where one partner does it a lot and then the other partner starts doing it too because they feel like they're defending themselves first but then it's just like

but you do this yeah you know it's such an exhausting way to be in a relationship oh so exhausting but so common and i guess more common than not. I mean, every couple did this. But when Shanique was like, I want to talk about what I need to work on, and I thought that was a really endearing moment for her. Yeah. Because she recognized that like, oh, this is not just, like all the people who had the ultimatum went in thinking, I'm good.

I have nothing to change. Yes. And I just need to get this person to realize i'm perfect and it was really kind of fascinating to see the growth from uh i think april and and shanique in those particular uh uh context i thought was really really interesting what are our final i mean we're at we'll talk about this again tomorrow with uh with um uh chloe and and we'll talk about this more next week with our couple and going deeper there's like eight up so much to talk about but like we all watched it over the weekend and what are your what are our final thoughts before we have to i i hope that alexis and hunter are still together i hope that it was

a magical, beautiful moment that they only needed to be on the show that one episode. You don't hope the same for Lauren and Nate? I don't. Is that because you think Lauren's too good for Nate? Well, I just feel like they didn't address the problem of the children. Like, that's a huge thing to compromise on. Yeah.

So I feel like they're not going to address it and they're just going to end up burying it, burying it, burying it. There's going to be resentment and they're just going to end up bearing it, bearing it, bearing it. There's going to be resentment and they're going to break up. I really liked Lauren too. Me too. She's my favorite. I wanted to see her more on the show

because I thought she would have been a really interesting character. Good energy. Good energy. I wanted to see her good sides and toxic sides. Yeah. I also wanted to see more of Nate. Yeah, because he's a mess.

Yes. Which couple, minus the two engaged couples uh who do you think is still together and who do you want to see make it who do you want to see for sure break up and who do you think is still together i would like april and jake to break up I just feel like that's not a good thing. Shanique and Randall, I would like to see stick together. I feel like they both grew a lot and could work things out. Yeah, I think so. Also, just Shanique's dad. I want a skincare routine. I was like, that's Shananique's dad they look the same age and shanique looks incredible in any way suggesting she looks older but like that man fountain of youth

incredible uh yeah i've uh yeah shanique and randall i'm i'm rooting for uh i don't know so what do you think like i guess the big question is madeline and kobe do you think they're together do you want to be together I don't think they should be together, but I think they probably are together. They seem like they're a little codependent on each other. Yeah. And like they both encourage each other

with their bad habits, like the drinking, for example. I think they are compatible in a lot of ways from what we saw. And I think they're a good couple, but I agree with you. I think as individuals, they both have probably a lot to work

on. Definitely. And I hope for them, this experience was a wake-up call for that. Yeah. And I hope, and you know, I get therapy, you get therapy. So when we say, I think they should get therapy, we're not saying there's something wrong with you, but it might be like they both might be able to benefit from working on themselves as individuals. And also couple therapy. Not or. And. Because couples therapy only works as if you have two relatively healthy individuals working to try to get the relationship as a whole healthy.

But I do think when they got back together, and they both did some shit they both did some at least making out and I really like how Colby in that moment said I don't care what happened like I just want to enjoy this and they obviously did care yeah and they got to it but I do think and it's something I've learned in my life in relationships especially when you're fighting like you don't have to're fighting, like you don't have to win right away. Yeah. You don't have to solve the problem immediately. And again, more importantly, you don't have to win the fight right away. Sometimes there's comfort in knowing that you both love each other and you both want to make this work. Yeah. And yeah, we have to get

through this and there's something we need to talk about, but let's just focus on the fact that we love each other. Yeah. And then we'll wake. And I thought that was a really good moment for them. I thought it was a beautiful moment for them, and I didn't take that as them ignoring the issues. I took that as them prioritizing the good in that moment over what they could have focused on as,

all right, what the fuck did you do? Yeah. And I think for them as a couple i think that shows a lot of promise for them if they can try to work out some of these other toxic traits yeah of needing you know like kobe i think kobe needs to work on needing less validation in general full Full stop. Full stop. Full stop. I definitely think... Less validation, less hat.

Yeah. Less validation, less hat. A lot less hat. And Madeline, I feel like she could be a little nicer.

Yes. I think she has a lot of resentment built up towards Colby it feels like. Like she has like just some anger towards him for some reason. Well, listen, if nothing, I could even empathize if you're dating someone who constantly needs validation,

not even only from you, but from people. That can get fucking exhausting. Yeah. And it can make you want to roll your eyes at your partner. I think them watching it back, too, is going to be really interesting because maybe he will notice that about himself. And she'll notice, like, her being a little colder than she thought she was. Yeah.

I mean, I will. And that's what I liked about Moelle and Kobe, too, is they both seem willing and open to growth. Yeah. They don't talk about themselves as if they don't have things to work on. Mm-hmm. And I think that's great. And none of the couples really did.

And I like that about all the couples. I mean, you know, like, I'm rooting for everyone. I, like, I really was sad to see Zay have that moment with Ray, like, that really awkward physical, like, you know, he seemed to, like, not let her leave the room. And then she said she hit him. was really sad for for both of them but as individuals I really I I hope that they like find some peace and is able to get through this emotional trauma that he had and I hope he's able to find a

partner that is can help him get through this like he has to do it on his own but I hope he finds someone who can support him and be someone who helps him rather than makes him feel ashamed for it. Yeah. And again, like this is not me about like Ray versus Zay, but there was a moment when they were talking. And I think as a guy, I really related to,

and I think it's something a lot of men do relate to, that there were a couple of times where Ray was just, when it was Zay and Ray talking to Ray's family, Ray's mom. And Ray was just like trying to like say his side of like his feelings. And they like came at him and Zay started crying at the table. And Ray says to him, I don't think you need to make such a big deal about it. And completely tried to change the subject. And it was like.

Yeah, dismissive. That's so dismissive and so like toxic. And we talk about toxic masculinity all the time and the role that like, how does it come from? But it's shit like that. Yeah. That like happens in relationships from our women partners sometimes. And I'm not saying women are to blame for toxic masculinity at all it's you know but i'm just saying these are moments i think and you know i'm not trying to come down on raid these are moments

where it's the nuance in relationships these little moments these little like things that we say to each other that can be really damaging and harmful and i think as a guy like you sometimes you the last thing you want as a guy who's told and feels self-conscious about opening up and being emotional is to be shamed for it by the person you're trying to connect with the most. And should feel safest with to be emotional. And that was heartbreaking for me to see.

And you saw that a few times with, you saw that a little bit with shanique and randall like you saw randall like being like i want to like open up yeah and and uh but i felt like shanique saw that and there was some growth there and you didn't see that with ray yeah or they i mean so much to talk about chaos chaos uh andrea always a pleasure to see you thanks for having me remind uh my audience where they can follow you more specifically. Remind them again where they can listen to your music. Yes, of course.

You can find me at Andrea Russett on everything. And my new song, Butterfly Wings, will be out April 15th. April 15th. Congrats on all your success. Listen, it's a great song. You're very talented. I hope that the world gets to hear more all your success. Listen, it's a great song. You're very talented. I hope that the world gets to hear more of your music.

I really sincerely think you're very talented. Thank you. There's a lot of less talented people out there making us listen to their music. So I really hope you have nothing but great success in the music space. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to subscribe.

Tune in tomorrow for Chloe Cherry of Euphoria. We'll get her life story. It's a fascinating story. Thoughts on her experience with Euphoria. It's such a fascinating story. And some more Ultimatum hot takes. If nothing else, see you tomorrow. Okay.

Bye.