The Viall Files - E411 Going Deeper - The Ultimatum’s Colby & Madlyn

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined by The Ultimatum’s Colby & Madlyn! We dive into their new marriage and their soon to be baby. We ask them about why they joined the show, if they set any boundaries before splitting up, if they learned anything watching it back, and how mad Madlyn actually was when Colby said he saw other women for “her.” We ask them about the jealousy, lingering regrets, proposing in front of a camera crew, and being tailgate drunk. We rehash April’s breakup and talk about her finding happiness and independence after splitting up from Jake. After the interview, we transition into helping out a mediation couple who are lost in their finances when their mother-in-law meddles in their affairs. We talk about the flaws in having your mother as a landlord, and setting expectations not only for your family but also for the IRS.  “You don’t end up on a reality TV show if you don’t like a little drama!” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Viall Files listeners get 10% off their first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/ViallFiles Wondery: Listen to Even The Rich: Marilyn Monroe on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @colby_kiss @madlynballatori @ultimatumnetflix See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to an exciting, fascinating, captivating episode of the Vile Files Going Deeper edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda. Sometimes Allie, she's just in a mood. We do have a great episode for you. Colby and Madeline from The Ultimatum join us today for a Going Deeper discussion.

I think they definitely clear up some issues. And while we don't do a mediation call with Colby and Madeline, I felt like we kind of almost mediated their point of view on uncleared issues as it relates to their time while filming, specifically the understanding of what was fair and what was not fair expectations versus reality. Some of those burning questions you have in terms of like, what was Kobe really doing? Did he really, what did he apologize for? Was it okay for like, I also, I, I, I, I understood a little bit where,

where I saw both of their points. I thought they both made valid points. So I was enlightened. A couple housekeeping notes. We have a great Ask Nick episode for you. It's already out. It was out on Monday. If you are just tuning in for the first time or you've been listening to some of your favorite Ultimatum guests, we do this amazing show called Ask Nick on Mondays.

As Amanda referred to, it's what are you, how did you describe it? I loved how you described it before. It was You said it was like a brunch conversation? Oh yeah.

Adult brunch. Emotionally mature brunch. We go to very different brunches. Listen, if you are feeling a little

confused and a little helpless about your love life whether you're in a relationship or situation or single or you're having a conflict the people people who listen to our ethnic episode feel a little

bit more empowered. Yeah. And like trying to get them out of their own way. Yeah. That's what it's all about. And there's one reviewer described us as surprisingly insightful. And substantive. Surprisingly. So if you want to be surprised, if you're feeling a little like, if you've been going through this week and you think to yourself, nothing surprises me, and you think, how can this reality TV reject?

Provide insight or substance. Either. Go check out our Ask Nick episode. Next week we have Kale Lowry and Colton Eckhart on Tuesdays. Clayton Eckhart. Clayton whatever.

Clayton Eckhart. We don't have to even edit that out. Fuck it. I don't care. We're going to check in with Clayton. Get his thoughts on

some on life since AFR. And on Wednesday Josh Beck who has done a hundred and forty thousand podcast interviews. And we are lucky enough to get his 141 and one and we're gonna dare him to give us some original content see what he comes up with see what he comes up with really engage his ego i've never i've never really called out a podcast

guest before they come on our show but they they've done, he's done them all. That's fantastic. Done them all. Saving the best for last. Yeah. On the topic of interesting people, seamless transition, Elon Musk buying Twitter.

How do you feel about it? This is a deeper conversation. Like this is, I have a brother, I have lots of brothers, who is on the far left of things. And he's of the belief that billionaires shouldn't exist. There's no place in this world for billionaires.

There's a lot of people who agree with him. I even understand the argument, I suppose. But I'm not on that side of like, we should abolish billionaires. Like everyone, there should be tax to the point where you can't be a billionaire. Like anything else, I do believe in balance and I think there's, you can abuse your power and privilege. And if you have a billion dollars, it's super easy to abuse your power and privilege. On the flip side, you know, you look at people like Elon Musk or who owns Amazon? Jeff Bezos.

Jeff Bezos. Elon Musk or who owns Amazon? Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos. Like, I mean, Amazon, you could argue, saved a lot of lives during the pandemic with people's ability to stay at home and order literally anything they might need from groceries to supplies. And that technology that Amazon created probably saved some lives. So there's that benefit. Elon Musk is potentially creating and developing transportation that might save our earth, right? In terms of electric cars and things like that. So like, I think this place has a world for incredibly talented and people with means, because there's a lot of bureaucracy and government that doesn't get things done. It's not efficient so that you can operate more efficiently and billionaires can do that. On the flip side, like it can be incredibly scary and dangerous when someone has so much

money and influence that they can like wake up bored and want to like stir the pot and buy Twitter or even threaten to buy Twitter. And what does that say about one person having all this control and power is a potentially scary thing. I'm also so interested in the space obsession with billionaires. The way that I'm like, oh, I really want to go to Paris one day. Or they're just like, oh, I really want to go to space. It feels like... That's probably what it is. Yeah. There's just this expansive when you have access to every single resource ever. You're like, I need beyond the worldly resources. You know, it's like for other people, like, you know, we already talked about Coachella, but I went to

Coachella last weekend. Right. And I had been to Coachella before, but like there were moments there where I'm just looking around thinking this is an experience. This is cool. Like I have to sit here and appreciate what I'm doing because like, this is a unique environment and like to be able to appreciate moments or first time moments or like, you know, like that, that feeling must be hard to find and replicate if you have access to anything. find and replicate if you have access to anything. So maybe it must come from that need to feel and live and be an aim towards something to experience something new for yourself because everything is so obtainable when you're that wealthy is my guess. But, and I, you know, if you want to fly to space on your dollar, like whatever, I don't know. I don't think they, I think even then they're not flying to space on their dollar. I think there's like, I don't know. I don't think they, I think even then they're not flying to space

on their dollar. I think there's like, I don't know how it all works. But yeah, as far as, I don't, I know very little about the Elon Musk and Twitter of it all. But I will say,

knowing very little, the idea gives me pause. I see the problems with it, but I don't know if I'm, know as much to have an informed opinion on it. What do you guys think? I just wanted to see exactly what the numbers were.

What is Musk really doing with his $43 billion offer to buy Twitter? That's so much money. And if he's willing to just throw that away. Well, throw it away. I mean, he's worth like $200 billion. So like, what's the difference? Also mean he's got he's worth like 200 billion so like what's the difference also he's made how much did he make during the pandemic so much so much I think it's at least starting a

conversation about the fact that there are owners of Twitter because I think sometimes social media has just become so integrated into culture and society that I forget that there are people who are doing like product design who are making very deliberate choices, that it's still a business. It's not just this forum. And so I think it's been a reminder that, yeah, there's the potential that a billionaire could buy Twitter. And then what does that mean for the discourse about stuff? We should play a game.

Who is your favorite billionaire? I have a favorite billionaire. Who is it? Mark Cuban. From what I know about him is that he seems like someone who, especially in his most recent years, as he's gotten older and more mature, he's using, he seems to be using his capital and his wealth to like, uh, help the common people. Like he started this company to give people like cheap drugs like by cheap i mean

like less expensive drugs uh rather than some of the high-priced you know pharmaceutical drugs that are out there uh i remember mark cuban say and i completely agree with him that like everyone on social media should be verified the fact that like this whole like blue check mark or verification process is meant to like have people like me feel important and have some sort of status like, oh, I'm verified. I think everyone who's on the internet should be verified. People should be held accountable for the shit they put out there. And if you're going to troll someone, if you're going to talk shit,

you should have a name to the face because it's so easy for anyone to put out out and fake accounts and talk shit and and things like that. And I think everyone on social media should be verified to hold people accountable. And I think the world will be a better place for it. And that was Mark Cuban's. I heard that first from Mark Cuban. I don't know if he originated the idea, but he's my favorite billionaire because I see multiple scenarios in which he has tried to do the right thing for other people rather than for himself. It sounds like you gotta love Shark Tank. Yeah. Also, you gotta love Shark Tank. You gotta love it. And I also love how he watches sports. He's a passionate person, but he seems to be a thoughtful, caring,

empathetic guy. Very quickly, switching to one more topic that has inspired a lot of passion. Taco Bell brought back Mexican pizza. And I think this is significant,

especially for Allie, a known Taco Bell lover. You're excited about the pizza. I've never had it, but I would trust Taco Bell with my life. I only get tacos. What's your drunk food, like i like taco bell okay uh i only get tacos i

get three hard and three soft shell tacos nice balance i i love a good euro but like only from milwaukee or chicago because out there you can't find a good euro in la i think i don't think so if you've eaten a chicago or mil Milwaukee euro and you think you have a good there there are equally as good euros uh in LA let me know if you haven't had a euro from Chicago or Milwaukee because there's a very large and Greek community in both cities and they make some fucking there's some amazing great Greek food food in chicago and milwaukee i've had some real shitty uh euros uh in la and if you know of a good one let me know but the taco bell pizza like i've had it before it's whatever look at that why and people are excited like like some people stare at stained glass i'm gonna just be here all day i fuck with

taco bell i like taco as far as like shitty fast food, I... Oh, hell yeah. Better than McDonald's, for sure. Taco Bell. I feel like, because I tried Taco Bell for the first time when I was like 19 or 20 or something. What? And I feel like...

That was your first time? Yeah, for some reason. And it's not like a... What sheltered life did you have? You were a Taco Bell virgin until you were 20. Yeah, I was an old Taco Bell virgin. I think that's kind of hysterical. Like, you know, we're all sheltered

and not sheltered for different reasons, depending on our parents. But like you, from what I understand, came from a very progressive liberal family. And you were probably exposed to things that Allie and I were definitely not exposed to. I grew up in the gay part of Boston. Like the neighborhood in Boston I grew up in was gay part of Boston. Like I grew up in the neighborhood in Boston.

I grew up in was like, there was just like a lot of, there's a huge LGBT population. And so I went home from soccer practice one day and asked my mom, I was like, why don't I have two moms? So like I was definitely exposed to like a large slice of the world. But you didn't have Taco Bell.

But Taco Bell was not on the menu. I have like memories of like my mom is a boss woman but like on sundays when she would be home like she would go to taco bell and come in with like big bags of taco bell and like i've that was love i think and like everyone would get their little that's how your mom showed love the chips and the cheese dip not the only way but like that strikes a memory that's the thing about being a kid though like it's amazing why do why as children do we like love shitty food like oh my god why did i why was i obsessed with little caesars as a child like that's dog shit like as an adult that would

be like crazy horrid uh but i as a kid it was like christmas morning yeah it's like sugar cereal like any of that stuff. It's just like... Anything else going on in the pop culture world we need to cover before we get to Madeline and Kobe? I don't know how we end on a higher note than that. Let's get into it. Madeline and Kobe. All right, Madeline and Kobe.

Don't forget to send in those questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com, cast with a K for our Ask Nick episode or mediation calls. We do have a great mediation call for you today after Colby and Madeline. We got mother-in-laws, we got finances, we got rent, and I feel like we found a really good solution. So be sure to check that out. And once again, we love you all. Can't thank you guys enough.

Also, a little shout out there is uh all the people who said hi to me at Coachella uh thank you for saying hi thank you for listening to the podcast there were a group of I like Natalie and I were walking through the the the crowd and I was uh uh posting something and with like so I was like on my phone I was also inebriated slightly. And then there was this group sitting on the lawn that was screaming my name. And they like recognized me, but I was like so out of it. I was like, why are these people yelling my name? Like, what did I do wrong? Lovely group. They listen to the podcast. Hi, if you're listening,

you know who you are. And to all the people who said hi it does mean a lot uh obviously all the people who come up and are very appreciative of the show so uh it really uh yeah thanks i don't know i love that nick goes to a festival and forgets he has a million instagram followers he's like how do they know me i was like why are you guys yelling at my name i don't know what did i do wrong I'm very self-conscious sometimes. Madeline Kogan. People don't realize that physical symptoms like headaches, teeth grinding, and even digestive issues can be indications of stress.

And let's not forget about doom, scrolling, sleeping too little, sleeping too much, under eating or overreacting. All things that a good mental health professional can help you with. And we're talking about BetterHelp, people. BetterHelp is making it easier than ever before to connect with therapists and mental health professionals from the comfort of your home, or the comfort from your car, or the comfort from a road trip, wherever you are. You can literally maybe walk outside in the hallway fighting with your boyfriend at his apartment and talk to a therapist if you want. BetterHelp, again, makes it easy. You can go to betterhelp.com. You take a quick kind of assessment quiz to figure

out like what it is you want to talk about. They assign you to one of their many mental health professionals. Also, you can make sure that you like the person you talk to. If you talk to them the first time, you're like, listen, I'm messed up. We don't connect. Move on. It's like speed dating with therapists if you want. BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy. Give it a try. So many of our listeners have tried BetterHelp. They love it. It's really made an impact on their lives. And if it's something you've ever thought about doing,

I highly suggest and recommend you trying it. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Vile File listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash vile files. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com slash V-I-A-L-F-I-L-E-S. Marilyn Monroe, what an icon she is. There's so much about Marilyn Monroe I've always wanted to know. And every time I feel like I know everything about Marilyn Monroe, there's always something more.

And our good friends on the Even the Rich podcast are taking a look at the glamorous and not so glamorous and tragic life of Marilyn Monroe. She was just like a smart lady. Like, I think people put her in a box of like, oh, this like blonde bombshell. And I'm like, no, no. Like, you have to understand like the wheels that are turning behind the scenes. Listen, you don't get icon status

without being incredibly intelligent. And there's all types of intelligence, but you have to have peak intelligence to be an icon. Much has been written and said about Marilyn in the 60 years since her tragic death at 36. But what often gets overshadowed is the absolute force of nature she was while she was alive. Marilyn was a woman ahead of her time in so many ways. From the moment she stepped onto the first movie set, it became clearer that it was her acting and intoxicating charm that brought her film's box office success. Listen to hosts Brooke and Arisha pull back the curtain on her legendary life and career. To listen to Even the Rich, Marilyn Monroe, go to Apple Podcasts,

Amazon Music, or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Madeline, Colby, welcome. How are you two? We're doing great. We're hanging in there. Hanging in. You look a little stressed, Colby. Is that more like, is that ultimatum stress or is that baby on the way stress? No, dude. I've been working in the yard, doing some stuff around the house. I'm just trying to get things done before the baby gets here. All right. Well, congratulations, obviously, to the both of you, both on your marriage and your newborn baby on the way. That's very exciting.

Thank you. If we can, and I'm sure you guys know, we'd love you guys to indulge us and go back in time and talk about your experience, even though I know you have a baby on the way. But there's a lot of burning questions people have. And we had the pleasure of talking to April. By the way, there's a lot of burning questions people have and uh we had the pleasure of talking to april by the way she colby very she seems very grateful for your friendship she has nothing but

very nice things to say about the both of you in case you guys were worried she was talking she just talked shit about jake really honestly but uh i'm really fast i think a lot of people are really fascinated with how you guys came on the show to begin with like obviously we know colby was one who issued the ultimatum but i'd love to hear from you guys in terms of like was was these ultimatum that colby issued was this like a topic of conversation that was going on between the two of you or was it the show presented itself to you guys and then they were more curious about like who was more interested in getting married like what was that casting process like for you guys because i think that

was a lot of people are really fascinated with that because like again it's one thing to go on as a single person and be like yeah sure fuck sure, fuck it. I'll go find love. But for a couple to be like, yeah, we should do this is a whole different story. And I'm curious about the conversations you two had while going through this process. Yeah. So from our first date, Colby was like, you're the one. This is it. He moved in with me after like two weeks. He was very like, we're going to get married. Um, and I've always had my hesitancies. Um, I just think things take more time. I loved him from the start and that doesn't really show. Um, I just needed, I needed more time and for things to, for things to just play out and make sense to me. And so whenever we

were like approach the idea of the show is like, well, why the hell not? We'll put it to the test, kind of see who's right. And then also, it was kind of sold to us like in a little more healthy of a tone. It was like, you'll have the opportunity to really see like, if there's truly something missing from your relationship, if you're taking something for granted, which I felt like maybe I was and maybe I really had something to learn from it I didn't um I didn't go into it thinking like this is going to be so chaotic and messy it was like we've got this we know where we stand we know what we want eventually um so yeah I don't I don't think we really knew 100% what we getting into, but it did seem like a good fit. Like it fit where we were at at the time.

Were, was one of you, uh, more excited or anxious to do it than the other? Or did you guys, were you on the same page or was one of you pushing the other one? Cause like, obviously according to, to Jake, you're pointing your finger at, at Mad at madeline colby yeah she was definitely more excited to do this whole experience really i think i was more anxious more anxious yeah yeah like because colby colby's i mean from the start like you see his personality he's like um colby you know um and for me yeah we saw we definitely saw the I'm Colby. Yeah. Yeah. And so for me, I was like, yeah. And he was like, it's funny because I mean, our roles really got reversed. Things changed whenever Colby didn't get who he wanted to be paired up with.

And I did. That's where things kind of took a turn because Colby went into it like, this is totally cool. Like, I have so much confidence in us anyways. Like we can do this, this and this. But then whenever things kind of didn't pan out and him and April got more stuck together than like actually had a connection. That's where Colby kind of had a little more anxiety for sure. For sure. Why is that, Colby? Well, for one, I didn't go on as many dates as I did with the other girls. Me and April didn't really have the sit down deep chats before we actually got paired together.

So for me, whenever I, you know, at that night, a choice night, it was kind of like, okay, what am I about to get myself into more so like prepared and knowing what i'm getting myself into um so it's just a lot more anxiety whenever things took a turn what was it like for you like colby what what were you feeling when you saw uh madeline and randall seemingly have some kind of connection right and then you got essentially paired with someone you had no connection with you're like well fuck it i mean you know apr it. I mean, you know, April, beautiful woman. She's, you know, bubbly, but you guys either, A, didn't talk that much or there just wasn't a connection.

Was there any part of you that wanted to pull a Nate in that moment, knowing that, like, my girlfriend, who I love, is, like, vibing with this dude, and I'm about to, like, basically have a roommate for three weeks. Like, were you panicking? Well, first off, just starting off, like when you initially get there, I was walking with confidence, like before I've met anybody. I mean, as soon as you walk into the environment with the other six dudes in the room, knowing that they're going to make an effort to connect with your woman, like the confidence goes out that window and your jealousy goes through the roof you know i'm saying so initially i was

like oh shit you know i got i don't know what's about to go on from this point i think i might have screwed up bringing her here kind of thing um but as things went on and progress and then as the week kind of went through and she started having more dates with Randall and I started to see that relationship develop, you know, it definitely made me nervous. But knowing that I was still connecting with somebody on this side, I knew that we were both getting the experience, the full kind of experience out of this, what we were wanting coming into it. And then choice night when things got twisted, knowing that she was moving forward with the solid connection. And then choice night when things got twisted, knowing that she was moving forward with a solid connection and I was getting kind of, you know, forced into something I wasn't exactly agreed upon in the first place. Yeah, maybe kind of freak out, kind of scramble a little bit, kind of try to figure out a new plan. Knowing that me and April obviously shared the same energy, you know, we both brought the same thing to the table um i just knew it was going to be a strong friendship from that point moving forward and just accepting it and just turning into something positive instead of

trying to sit in my own you know mess i was just trying to um you know just create positive things out of it so yeah definitely moments where we both wanted to run um in that first week for sure it's like that's an understatement get us out of here um but yeah at that point i think that we both also knew we weren't ready to leave with engagement so did you was there any part of you that was almost kind of like in a weird way do you wish colby had an opportunity to to do this with do the experiment with matt uh with lauren because not at all i'm so scared i when i watched back i was like what the fuck where did when did that happen like and how did i miss it because we both i mean i mean going into it we both knew that we had the ability to connect

with people we both value human connection getting to know people i mean that's such a fun exciting part of life um so i knew we were both capable of it. I didn't know he was doing it though. So watching it back, I was like, thank God she left. I don't, I mean, cause I, and I don't know that Kobe has, I don't know that, I think we would have split up. Like, I don't think he would have controlled himself as much. So you think that if Lauren and Kobe and kobe like uh but like what

lived together for three weeks i'll be honest as a viewer i was bummed that she was gone because i feel like she like seems so like put together and quiet and then she has this like sleeve of tattoos you're just like that's what that's what kind of drew me in i like i was just trying to figure out like she's saying she seems so unique so different from everybody else and that's kind of what madeline is to me she just always stood out from other girls and from the group that i was getting to um have dates with she was the one that really stuck out to me and i wanted to um you know just invest and like see who she really was. Cause she was very quiet at times and it really expressed herself until we started going on dates. She started opening up to me and I was like, Oh, okay. I was like, she's pretty cool chick.

You're like pretend she like, she might be a freak in bed. Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yes. I know. Yeah. So, I mean, like, I don't, I mean, I'm not going to say complete would have split us up, but it would have put me in an entirely different position. I think I was very lucky to be able to have as much like confidence and security. that you would have been more tempted? Because if I'm hearing Madeline right, she's saying that she doubts your ability to control yourself in the heat of the moment when the stakes are risen.

Do you agree with that assessment? Are you just as thankful? Because sometimes we're put in situations and we make mistakes that we do wish we could take back. Sometimes we do make... For sure. What do you think do you think as you saw on the show yeah i mean i had many of those we'll get into that but um yeah so yeah as far as that goes um yeah i would i don't know if it would have been more so like i wouldn't be able to control myself i think it was more like i don't know it's kind of hard to explain I I think would have

slowed our progression down as far as um the engagement and all that it would take a lot longer for us to restructure our relationship for sure um versus kind of at the end of our experiment I guess it was like okay I definitely know what I'm doing I think if I would have been with Lauren I would have been like okay maybe you know i need to kind of i'm with maybe i'm with uh madeline at this point maybe we need to wait a little bit longer and make sure everything's you know right but i think we both would have been a little more confused for sure yeah you're just slow slow things down what i loved about this show and what I like about this franchise as well, I come from a show that likes to either have people be heroes and villains, right? It's very one-dimensional. And what I love about The Ultimatum is that it shows people. And it shows people in their good qualities and in their toxic qualities, right? I think we saw toxic sides of everyone and we saw really endearing sides. What I loved about you two is a couple, my favorite moment for you guys.

And I want, I'm curious if you even thought about this or other people have told you the same is that when you guys, after your three weeks of living with Randall and April, and you guys both kind of pulled some shit, were some like you know whatever moments but the first thing that we saw was you two lying in bed and and colby saying to you madeline like i don't really care what happened i just want to enjoy this moment and i'm a big believer like there's always like a time you always have to work through your shit and yes you have to talk through and have some tough conversations but you two struck me as a couple that at the end of the day, just want to be happy with each other rather than being right about whatever it is that happened.

And so that I love for you guys, because it seemed like you seemed like a couple that truly cared about each other. And yeah, you're going to have some tough conversations. But you saw that love there because you saw it with other couples that wasn wasn't as easy like they needed to like get to their shit right away and i i like that you guys through your actions stated that more than anything this was you know priority number one so for sure props to you guys there as far as the other stuff the toxic stuff i'm really curious madeline you mentioned um people might not see that but i think a lot of the people thinking or watching it was and i'm sure you heard this is

madeline fucking hates kobe early on what was that like what was your perception of what we got to see we know things could be edited do you think that was accurate did you watch it back madeline and and kind of were you surprised by how you talked about Kobe at times? And Kobe, what was that like for you to watch that back? And what conversations did you guys have with each other, specifically about some of the early things we saw as it relates to how you guys talked about each other behind each other's backs? I'll let Madeline start this one off. Yeah. So we were asked to discuss like what are, you know, positive things and what are negative things about your relationships.

So I did that. And I'm Colby note. I mean, I feel like we've talked before about the things that bother me about Colby. I am, and just being, I'm very like meticulous and can be nitpicky. Those are things that we also talked about during the show, but it's like, yeah, I get annoyed. I get overstimulated. Colby has all this energy and I'm like, let's just kind of mellow it out. Which honestly has, is a good balance, but yeah, sometimes, like I said, I was like, Colby annoys me, you know? So it's like, he does. That was true. It it I think like the negative

things I did say negative things and I guess I kind of stand by them and you know it sounds awful what I feel like I had to do was that I didn't do is speak as kindly and openly as about Colby like as I feel like he did about me. It was awesome going back and just seeing how he just speaks his love and adoration for me all the time. And like, that's something that I think I was embarrassed to do or something, which is so mature. It was like, I thought that like, wasn't cool or something. And so now it's like, wow, that's something that I really want to do for him.

Because I do love this man. And I don't know, I don't always have to, I don't know, be cool. Yeah. You know, I thought it was really interesting to watching this back because I think you saw a lot of behaviors from the cast that you see in the real world, right? I think there was a theme with the women on the show and as a guy in relationships, I've experienced this. I feel like women have a tendency or at least feel like it's normal behavior to be more nitpicky about their male partners. You know,

like it's like almost like fun and ing jest and i think you got to see how that affects men you know like we i think we're so used to you know like women talking shit about their male partners but they don't see it as talking shit and honestly like one thing i've learned in relationships too like you know in my current relationship i used to laugh it off too like if my girlfriend be like oh you're such an asshole or whatever and blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, I would just like, I would take it. I would laugh it off. I would act like it was not a big deal.

And honestly, now in my life, in my relationships now, like I find that I stand up for myself more in relationships. And not like I'm in an amazing relationship, but like there are times where I go, yeah, please don't talk to me that way. And I, and I recognize that they don't even important to let that person know. Yeah. They don't even realize, right. Like, and I think it's kind of a behavior that like, oh, I guess, yeah, I probably shouldn't talk to you that way, but I'm so used to just saying it like this or saying it like that. And I, I do like how the show maybe at your expense, Madeline of sounding a certain way, but I think it, again, I think it showed very relatable moments between couples. And what I liked about it is it kind of showed how men can feel insecure or how they can be

talked about. And certainly we saw some toxic behaviors from the men too and how they handled their emotions. But yeah it was it was certainly entertaining but i actually saw it as more of a teachable moment than anything um rather than i thought it was interesting to hear you say like you almost the pressure like you thought almost what you're saying madeline is like yeah you thought like when you said you were trying to be cool were you trying to be cool too who were you thinking about were you thinking about other women watching the show or were you thinking about people you know were you thinking like you know i want women to support me you know what i'm saying when you're watching it what

kind of self-awareness like who was the person you were trying to be cool too honestly i think even myself i think that i've had a problem like in past relationships and stuff, just feeling like, I don't want to buy into this guy's shit and look stupid. Like, I just want to be smart. And I want to know the red flags. Like I want to see everything. I want to, I don't want to fall into anything. So I think that I've just kind of overdone that so much to where it's like, I wasn't appreciating and sharing my gratitude and love for my partner anymore. Yeah. So protecting yourself.

Yeah. That makes sense. But there were some moments where you called out Kobe that we quite loved. One in particular, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Kobe when it was after you, you lived with April and then there was that moment where you talked about April's growth

and then Madeline kind of called you out as like, who the fuck are you to take credit for it? I explained that on the reunion. I did explain it on the reunion, but I don't think they showed it on the reunion. I don't think they did. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why it sounded like you were taking credit for april for growth but i will say and in your defense april didn't april had no problem with anything you said so

there you have that going for you but i would love to hear your point of view on on what you meant when you were saying that. Well, even at the turnaround point where we actually get back to the original partners when she says that, like, who are you to be able to say that about women, whatever. And I was like, you know, Shanique turns to me and was like, I don't think you're able to say that kind of stuff about me, like telling Randall he wouldn't be able to handle Madeline. It was just, I'm not good at wording things I guess like not using proper um I don't know like relatable things to say but what I meant by that was just yeah she's grown as an individual like we I've grown out of men like to put it even I grew as a man like I grew more

into a man you know I'm saying so like I wasn't saying I turned her into a woman within the three weeks. I was just saying, hey, I'm recognizing your growth. I'm just very proud of you for everything that you've been able to go through and handle as maturely as you did. That was my way of saying, hey, you've really grown into a woman. That was the intention. That was my intention. There's always an extra level of confidence i think i think uh i think every guy uh and i include myself has learned a tough

lesson and maybe this was yours kobe of well-intentioned talking to women about like we like mansplaining you know what i'm saying condescension condescension mansplaining and like all well intentioned but when you hear it back, be like, why the fuck am I talking? That's exactly how I felt. Why do I have an opinion about this?

I've certainly been humbled and it's just, I think, a lesson all men probably need to learn and be humbled by it. So the good news, it seems like you have you you're not defensive about it, but recognize while you didn't mean anything by it, why it might sound the way it did. On the topic of the three weeks where you were with April, one thing that she alluded to in her interview was that the couples would sometimes or the original couples who went into this experience together would sometimes meet up off camera. And I'm curious, like what that looked like, if it did in fact happen and like what kinds of things were you saying to each other if you did get a few moments during that three week period? We heard you even met up with the dogs, too too so that's what we heard through the grapevine okay yeah so there's a lot of actually times

where me and madeline are having some like deep conversations mature conversations about like progressing forward about after hearing what like each other's done so we're talking about yeah yeah like you guys were like all that stuff yeah like you guys it seemed like not only you guys but all the couples were kind of like keeping tabs on one another and meeting up even if you weren't supposed to meet up but like checking in on each other and having face-to-face conversations yes so actually most of the times that we actually met up it was more like ran into each other because we all stayed in the same apartment complex, downtown Austin. Okay.

But we also all parked in the same parking garage down the street. And there's only one spot to walk. And we only had maybe an hour to walk, get outside and do our thing, whatever, before the next filming or next time we went out or whatever the case was. So during those breaks, almost everyone was moving around, getting stuff done, you know, within that time that they had. So everyone was out walking their dog,

getting stuff from their clothes, doing laundry, whatever. So yeah, the times that we didn't meet up, we were able to talk about things and, you know, exchange information,

whatever, but what's going on, what we did with this partner, you know, blah, blah, blah. Did you guys, before you went on the show and even before you guys separated with your temporary new partners?

Yeah, we set boundaries. Yeah. What boundaries did you guys set? So really, I'm reading this guy's mind. We kind of think alike. Okay. So honestly, we were, we were to the point where like just no sex,

like we didn't want to scare each other from embracing the experiment. Yeah. Like really trying to connect with another individual. Like I would hate for her to get for a guy to get close to her and she like already, you know, stiff on him, you know, like I want her to experience that closeness, the intimate stuff with somebody uh just to really embrace the experiment and i wanted the same thing so well yeah sex was really the bottom line don't do that do whatever but like just sex also don't do other stuff oral was on the table was oral on the table no oral was not on the table i mean we said sex but we knew like in our

heads like connecting without saying it yeah or it was obviously not yeah i don't know i mean i think a lot of people are were like curious because it what we saw was a kind of this you know we'll see another thing that we got was kind of confusing. It seemed like, and I think you got caught in this too, Colby. It seemed like at least some of the couples, and I don't know if you include yourself, where like you had this, there was this other girl and April had this other guy where did some of the couples, including you guys take this basically moment away from your each other your partners as i'm just single period versus i'm single with this person who's part of this show and i think i know you've answered some questions around this but like was that the mentality uh that you had that caused you

from making having some of these makeouts that was discussed because honestly i was like i found myself really confused watching like what who the fuck is he making out with who are they talking about and then there was like that whole event so like what was your mentality and how did you find yourself in a situation like that well that i mean i'll you have to answer towards what your mentality was but like those those are boundaries too but i think we're kind of unspoken like we went in going like this is the experiment these are the six couples and Colby was all about he's like making out is fine like yeah oh and I was like I was a little

more hesitant about that I was like what the heck like what do you mean um but then I'm like he said it was fine okay so I think yeah like going outside of it to me like that's where it was like this was not understood this was not agreed upon and it wasn't transparent as a thing it's like we came on here we're kind of opening up our relationship in a way um but within a certain bounds and that is what I felt like to me was outside of it um if there'd been you know conversation um and owning up to it, like before finding out, that would have been a little more understandable

and whatnot. But yeah, I don't know. What was your mentality? Yeah, Kobe. Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously it's an open relationship. Once you get into, basically when you first step foot into all of this,

it's an open relationship immediately. You're opening yourself up to connect to other people, right? Well, I think that's where people were kind of confused. We don't know. We weren't there, right? I think that was the big question. I think a lot of the audience was confused where, is that what it was? Where you're just like, hey, in the real world, you don't do this kind of social experiment you don't agree to

like find one partner on temporary date you either take a break or break up and fuck around with people or not right but this is this show which is so like this show calls itself it names itself an experiment right so i think a lot of us had this as madeline mentioned it was like limited to the experiment uh that we went on but you took it more as like well you know like uh we're in an open relationship yeah yeah i mean essentially you go in there looking to see if you can connect with somebody else or not um i would have like called up the next boyfriend you would have been pissed that would not have been what we agreed upon. Right. I mean, that's a good point, I guess.

You know, I guess I, yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. I guess with the high levels of stress and everything getting mixed up and thrown around and I'm seeing her, you know, kissing Randall and I'm not getting that out of, you know, April or whatever. I guess I, I don't know. I just felt like, um, like she's actually going a different direction, like really starting to connect with Randall. And I was like, oh shit. I was like, I might walk out of this thing.

Like I might've just lost Madeline, you know? So we've obviously been together for a while. I haven't dated or talked to anybody else, you know? But it's like, this was a moment where we could. I think the motivation and like the feelings are totally understandable really like it to me it totally makes sense it was just like i wasn't we just needed to be honest about it well it was uh it was it was bad boundary setting i guess right because like hearing you guys talk you know when

you said well we knew sex was off the table and And then I asked, well, was oral on the table? And Kobe goes, well, we knew that it meant that it wasn't. And so I'm thinking these are two people who clearly are so connected, who know each other so well, but they're still assuming. And as well as they might know each other, there are gaps and, and, and there are gray areas and expectations and boundaries, especially, especially around something that neither of you truly had any idea of what you signed up for. Because I will say like hearing Colby talk about it. Yeah. I mean, I can put myself in Colby's shoes saying we went on this experiment my girlfriend is connecting with this really good looking really charming guy i i i have a friend i have a pal in april so like i need to go make out with some people like it like

i i i could see how the fear of madeline making out right or wrong i'm just saying whether like i can understand while well shit do i i'm gonna go i'm definitely gonna yes i'm at least gonna make out with somebody because like april was just think about everything else that's going on too i mean you got other couples doing the exact same thing in front of you too like everyone was connecting but me as well you know i'm saying so like even that was a bigger like like i'm really yeah i feel like i'm just sitting on my edge on the corner over here kind of thing you know but it's not because i just wanted to get back at madeline it's because i wanted to try to test our relationship like am i am i able to connect with someone like that easy

or is there something i didn't take it as a back at madeline it took it as yeah i mean she might she might uh she might not want to be with me and i'm, I need to at least start making out. I'm again, I'm not, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. I'm just saying I can put myself in your shoes and, and understand. Ellie, you have a question? Yeah. I was just going to ask. So you obviously just said it wasn't to get back at Madeline. You were just like sitting and you didn't have someone, but then on your guys' last dinner before the proposals, you were like, I had to make this real. And Madeline asked you, make it real for who? And you said, for you.

So I guess I'm just wondering, you talked about how you kind of set boundaries going into it, but then external people were never part of that agreement. Looking back on that conversation specifically, do you guys wish you would have spoken differently about things? Do you wish you would have taken a different side of that argument yeah I wish I just sort of owned my shit to begin with instead of staring that was what was so frustrating is because from the beginning I was like Colby I understand why you did what you did like I I get it and it's just don't say you

did it for like as a favor towards me because we did never talk about that like i i felt like that was just my only line i had to draw it's like i get it we can move on from it you didn't tell me about it i was kind of fucked up and it wasn't what we agreed on so what specifically say to madeline let me explain it real quick let me explain this real quick um so when we first i'm sorry when before we did the um uh choice night first Choice Night, we had the last night together kind of thing where we sat down and had a dinner. I think you see it with Ray and Zay, with April and Jay. I can't remember who else. But you saw the little dinner inside the hotel room before we went to Choice Night.

But we had one of those, obviously. It wasn't shown. night but we had one of those obviously wasn't shown but it was the conversation was um you know i i don't want to feel like you're just going to be there at the end of this to where like i don't have to worry about anything i'll just know you'll be there and so she was like i need you to make it real for me and like i want you to test relationships like i want to make sure that you know that if we do end up together i am the i wanted him to stand his ground understood like you know this this is where i stand firmly and i'm not going to let you just do whatever you want and continue to make me wait i wanted him to you

know demand so you did say that okay i mean that does provide some context right it's just it's just just tell me about it and say i you know it wasn't it's just not shown like none of it's shown so no one understands why i'm saying this stuff and it's it's average like really agitating to me because it's like people don't see the the point where i'm coming from originally yeah i i guess everyone looks at me as a you know a jackass for saying i did this for you which you know i still i still believe i shouldn't say that because ultimately it is obviously my choice at the end of the day i did that did those things um but I just felt like that going outside of the six couples was a boundary. Like I thought that, I mean, that was set.

I felt pretty clearly. Allie has a follow-up. I have a follow-up. And not telling, not telling me about it for three weeks was the thing. Madeline, how do you think you would have felt if, let's say the roles were reversed and you kind of just got stuck with like a random leftover guy that you did not have a connection with and you were just buddy buddy and uh him and Lauren are just like well yeah I'm like into each other's

eyes would you have like tried to find a connection elsewhere would you have like stuck by your own rules and been like well I guess I'm just high-fiving my husband every day. What if you got stuck with Nate? Could you imagine that fucking guy? I actually didn't mind Nate. I think Nate got a bad beat. You got a bad beat? He was pretty cool in the dates, I'll say. I'm going to pick you.

One. He just reached out to me when we played golf. So he's really, I mean. He's all right? Okay, maybe we shouldn't be so hard on Nate. Nate really is all right um yeah but okay i mean there's lots of first of all i mean he did make out with april too like he can't say that he didn't explore that so on the last night by the way i was what i thought was particularly weird yeah he just had to get it in there but i don't

know i to me it was just like why don't you just embrace what you came in here with? She's an attractive, cool girl. And they had a lot in common. I'm going to stick up for Kobe here. Oh, my God. Only because if we're talking about, like, it's not about just, I mean, he ended up just making out with April for the sake of it. I don't get that. I don't get that.

But if this is about testing the relationship and testing your own connection with someone, you have to explore someone you at least are vibing with. Like you were vibing with Randall, so it seems disingenuous if the purpose is to do that. And I mean, in hearing you say, because I will say like, it is interesting because, again, if we're being critical of the toxic Madeline, you know, we all have toxic sides. We've all been like, fuck.

I mean, if they were recording 23-year-old me with my 23-year-old girl, like my first love, fuck. If we were on a reality TV show, it would have been a nightmare and so like i give you guys a bunch of grays but like you to colby's point like you were and and you being critical like there i think it spoke to kind of listen men can feel emasculated you you were you were telling man colby to man up and i think when a when a woman says that to a guy, especially in a relationship, it can be very confusing for a guy, especially while we're living in a time we are rightfully so trying to hold men more accountable for their toxic masculinity. And so that kind of juxtaposition of like, what do you mean i'm supposed to man up and as you say like set boundaries and push back versus like be this kind of empathetic loving caring nurturing guy

it can be confusing and then you add this very confusing social experiment that neither of you have any experience in and like i'm willing to offer kobe some grace on that but you still recognize that probably in the moment or at the end of the show, you were completely full of shit when you were saying, no, babe, I made out worth for you.

Like you probably definitely did it for yourself, but I get where I get where it's coming from. Yeah. I get where he's coming from too. And I guess to answer that question, like if I were to have gone off the show and we're not, cause I felt like I needed to be that. The only thing i would have done is just told him about it and been like yeah i did this because this is how i felt this is what i was missing

that's it what is i'd love to hear from both of you what is one thing you guys learned about yourselves as a result of going through this experience that both while filming it and while watching it back, where you thought to yourself, I see this behavior I demonstrated and I don't want to do it anymore in my relationship with this person, if anything at all. Like what is something that you guys learned about yourselves that you recognize as a behavior that you want to stop doing? Yeah, for me, like personally for myself, it was like the level of drinking, but for our relationship. I like to call tailgate drunk, Madeline. You were, I heard that. That is, that is on point. That's a very fair assessment. I'm from Wisconsin. I'm from Wisconsin. So I'm very familiar with tailgate drunk.

Yeah. Yeah. Girls Night was tailgate drunk for sure. But like for our relationship, it's just the way that I was speaking to him and jumping to conclusions, kind of like cutting off to be right i guess and that's a big thing that has changed with our marriage and with the position that we're in now like i don't feel the need to defend myself so hard and fight so hard for myself it's like fighting for us and trying to really find understanding and pass things um in an entirely different way. What about you, Kobe? Yeah, I got pretty much the same thing. You just got to realize that you're a team now. You're not independent anymore.

Working together is definitely what makes a healthy relationship. And knowing that you're not fighting for yourself, but for the relationship to be on the same page constantly. for yourself but for your relationship for to be on the same page constantly uh i think that's one thing that really opened the eyes to honestly all the couples on the show um knowing that once you commit to something you're committing to the commitment of both of you and not just yourself the marriage uh when did you think about proposing or actually suggesting to get married, Kobe and Madeline? Did you sense that might be on the table at all? You're nodding.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I knew that was probably fully. I knew if we get engaged, I'm married and pregnant like immediately. So I've got to be ready.

What did your family say about all that like did you guys end up doing like a celebration afterwards well i went and bought a dress but then i got pregnant so they're like uh after i have the baby and like get the bod back we're gonna yeah we've talked about putting something together for sure just kind of he wants his big wedding still oh that's so that tracks that's so kobe we're setting our we're setting our vows in front of our families and board and obviously your family and friends are the ones who hold you accountable uh you know for the promise that you make for that special person and to hold you you know uh true to it so you know we had our moment which what madeline wanted was kind of more just us kind of thing.

And the camera crew. Yeah, intimate for each other. And, you know, this was an opportunity for me to take full advantage of. I mean, this is a huge stage, obviously, but in the moment during that little clip there, you see me getting on one knee. It's just us, you know, with like 50 other film crew guys. But it was nice. It did was nice it's what she wanted you know it was something that was special for us and talking about the small wedding that we saw

on the show my question when i was watching it is i think you have to have two witnesses to be legally married to like sign the document so like there's a whole team of camera but that's what i was asking did a crew member sign those forms for you signed it yeah she made really good friends with one of the producers and then i was really good friends with the um exec producer she was really sweet kind of uh was there in the moment and wanted to be a part of it so both of them actually the next day went with us to the courthouse um we did it again she videoed it on my phone and it was real special for us yeah wow uh just to clear other things up too yeah what else was three months three months after uh we got married and filming anything that we got pregnant yeah everyone's like they got pregnant during the

show that's why he got on one knee i was like no i got a plan baby i got a plan i mean who did who gives a shit i mean mean, I don't know. Do you guys have... There's some drama going on between Ray and Zay on the internet right now. You guys must be following that a little bit. Do you guys have... No? No opinions?

Team Ray? Team Zay? Team Ray. Team Ray? Okay. Why? I gotta say Team Ray, too. i we saw the what it was and what they were dealing with and she's yeah there's a there's a lot there um i'm not sure what's on the internet but team ray 100 yeah they were facing a lot of issues in in their relationship coming onto the show i mean

there was a clear reason why she gave him the ultimatum uh but you saw a soft side of zay in some in some episodes but there was a lot of nasty stuff well in all of us i don't think we have to like yeah i guess i shouldn't yeah yeah but uh yeah team right yeah team right uh okay a couple rapid fire questions i have for you guys. Who's more of the drama queen between the two of you? Madeline. I think Colby. I think Colby.

I don't know. I keep it, I keep it pretty real. She's kind of. Colby, can I, can I offer you some advice? You should.

Yeah. May I? Just accept it. Yeah. In my experience, being in a heterosexual relationship relationship if you're the guy and you're the drama queen you win it's it's great i am the drama queen in my relationship i haven't always been the drama queen now i've always been a drama queen but i have dated people who are more

drama queens than me and when you're a guy and you're dating someone who's less of a drama queen, it is fucking awesome. Like I'm definitely a drama queen. I'm more of a control person, but yeah, I think he's more of a drama queen. You're more dramatic. I'm definitely more dramatic in my relationship for sure. Like not always, but like generally on a day-to-day basis, like it's a gift. Okay, yeah, probably, to be honest. If I'm really thinking about it, I probably would be more of a drama queen.

I know it's not used to say because we just say drama king or drama queen let's go drama king just make it a little more that's not bad i think you just embrace drama queen man just uh and embrace that side yeah you got that you got that feminine side i think that's a good thing you know me too you're an empathetic soft man And I say that in a great way. That's the side you like. You don't like that. No, no. I accept it.

I'm a teddy bear. I love you, Dovey. There you go. It's okay being a drama queen. I think it's, I've never, I never thought about that. I would have been defensive too. I would always be like, no, not me. I hate drama.

And I'm like, yeah, that's why. Maybe I like it. Maybe. You don't end up on a reality TV show if you don't like a little drama. For sure. Who is quicker to say I'm sorry? You think you are?

Yeah, for sure. It takes a lot for her to kind of walk along. I believe that. Last night I said I was sorry. I don believe that. Last night I said I was sorry. I don't know. Last night I said I was sorry. It really just depends on who's wrong, I guess. I think we both can fight pretty hard. But sometimes people...

I'm definitely in my... Natalie's amazing. Who's the better driver? Yeah, who's the better driver? So are we in traffic? Are we going around town? Are we late to an appointment? What are we talking about? I'm the better driver in all those scenarios.

Like the same driving? Yeah, it doesn't matter. Leave it alone. If we're going down I-45 and we're late to an appointment, we need to get somewhere. I'm Mr. Zoom for sure. But getting places safely. Because we're late to an appointment when he gets somewhere. I'm Mr. Zoom for sure, but getting places safely. Because we're carrying a child.

Do you guys have a name picked up? We do. We're not sharing it. We're not going to release it yet. Is there any way I can change your mind? Have you listed on this podcast? No names. No name dropping. Before we let you go, and it's entirely up to you guys, we have people call in and it's entirely up to you guys we have people

call in and if you guys want to be we want to do a potentially a trifecta so what usually what we do is we have a couple's call in just like this and they call in with something they've recently fought about or there have been fighting not not something that's like going to break you up just like something that like we always butt heads on this topic and we always, it's just like a recurring thing. And I mediate. And it's not about picking a winner. It's all these conversations in the same way. And that is, it's about helping each other, see each other's point of view and empathize with each other a little bit more. We don't pick winners. We just, and so my question to you is, do you guys have a topic you'd love to discuss with us and have me mediate like we haven't been fighting enough maybe like decorating maybe like decorating

a space like in the house i guess like we're okay projector or tv then because that's very come on are you kidding me let's blow this sucker up we got is that is that a serious enough topic do you guys actually disagree with it do you guys get mad yes yeah no yeah like we've had taco taco night be a conversation but there's always like what where do you peel back the layers in terms of but if you're getting frustrated at each other and getting mad and having to like agree to disagree or like take a time out then it's worthy of discussing yeah i think it boils down like the initial argument is like tv versus projector but i think it's just like practical versus cool we trying to make things i don't know trying to

make whatever i've got a pretty creative mind so yeah i think that's it can go places that so who's in charge of decorating the living like who's the decorators is a team effort I've got a pretty creative mind, so I can go places. So who's in charge of decorating the living room? Who's the decorators? Is this a team effort? It's pretty even. We try to make sure it's a comfortable spot for both of us, where it's not overwhelming with girl stuff, but also not a man cave. So are you trying to get a big screen TV slash projector,

and Madeline won't let you? She finally broke me, and we got a 70-inch TV, but it's close enough to projector, I guess. I have both. See, my guy. See, he gets it. I have an 85-inch and outside I have a 180 inch 4k projector so we're getting there outside that makes sense i just i think there's other things and i absolutely don't need either of them like yeah right yeah we we hardly ever watch tv to begin with to be honest with you we're always

outside venturing off hiking whatever but when we are home you know netflix and show kind of night it'd be nice to have something or our games going onflix and chill kind of night it'd be nice to have something or our games going on or masters or whatever you know it'd be nice to have a big screen and some boys over so you guys aren't really fighting about it all that much yeah we're really not fighting about i'm pretty easy going i gotta be honest with you we haven't been since the show by god so we haven't really so do you really i mean obviously no regrets you guys got married from it you have a kid how often you guys talk about this like do you guys does it come up now i mean obviously now it's been airing so it's a topic of conversation but how much between

it ended and filming have you been like what the fuck did we i can't believe we did that like does it do you get into these have you ever did you fight about the show all that much we didn't we were leaving it again we had one of those moments where it was like that was hard that showed the ugliest sides of ourselves like all we want to do is be better for each other um so we talked everything out and disclosed everything and until we got to an amicable point and we didn't fight about it until the show came back out and we're both getting backed up on our shit you know and so we kind of brought the fights up and it's like she had a good point she says you have red flags and i'm like well i heard you have you know that kind of brought it up and we had to, we had to talk it out.

It's not new. Gaslighting is not new. Yeah, gaslighting. I've never heard of gaslighting before. It's definitely not new. It's also now wildly overused and misused and misunderstood. And I think especially in situations like this, when you're having like a super heated argument like you I think most people have tendencies

to do this toxic have these toxic behaviors people often confuse like good healthy people and healthy couples can have toxic traits and behaviors and toxic fights I mean no couple in a long term relationship is not going to have

moments where they need to apologize for the behavior. I mean, essentially, you know, and if you have to apologize for behavior, then you were toxic at some point, right? Like that's a no brainer. And then, you know, gaslighting is an actual form of abuse. And it's just one of the internet has watered it down and repackaged it into like a way to articulate feeling like you're not heard or your partner's listening to you, not listening to you or ignoring you or trying to like convince you of things, you know, but yeah, people. Yeah, you guys, biggest takeaway there is you guys just not listen to the internet or read comments. But yeah, we felt a little, a little backed up. Someone's going to give you shit for saying that you have never heard of gaslighting though kobe just a heads up yeah for sure that's

shit for being narcissistic i don't even know what that was oh that's another word that people are wildly uh misusing um but it was funny he looked it up and he was like oh like these i do see some of these qualities so it's like there's a self-awareness there's and that's we have a narcissistic society and we all have traits of being narcissistic at times that's different than being a malignant narcissist who's borderline sociopathic and and dangerous to the people they come in contact with two different things but yes, we all can be narcissistic. But it's like, it's selfish. It's like we decided that selfish,

the word selfish wasn't as impactful enough and we've just replaced it with being a narcissist. But yeah, that's just what it is. Any final thoughts from you guys before we let you go? Anything you want to share? Anything you want to clear up get off your chest you know put out in the world any any advice you have for the people listening in terms of like hey young couples out there if you're going through this we made this mistake don't do what we did etc etc i think just in general uh be kind to one another, love each other,

choose your battles wisely. And if you really love somebody, I mean, love will always overcome. So just time is best friend and yeah, just love. Yeah. I don't know for me, I just felt being able to watch it back. It was hard to like watch me fight with myself in knowing how badly in those moments, like I wanted to love Colby and choose Colby. And it was just really hard for me. Um, cause again, I felt like I was going to be losing something or look dumb if I was wrong or something like that. Um, so I don't know, I guess to people that are on the fence like me and worried about always being right, like not, not letting yourself fall into something. I think that's a good, it's a good mindset to have, but it has to, it has to stop at some point. You have to draw a line and let yourself love and be loved too. All right. Well, I appreciate you both coming on. All the best to both you. Congratulations

on the marriage and the child and, uh, look forward to seeing more baby content, uh, whenever, whenever that happens. So best of luck. And, uh, thank you guys for coming on. You're gonna get yourself one of these. There you go, man. I'm glad you're not wearing that fucking hat. You got too good of hair, man, to wear a hat like that like i don't know that's what i think yeah well i'm talking about cutting it soon so we'll see when uh when you're when your wife tells you that you don't look good in something i just think that's a great time to like listen to let's go ahead let's go ahead and clear that up i'm glad you just brought that up what what do you think about my cap you like that's what you should mediate is Colby's hat.

You like the hat. I didn't hate it. I just think he's extra with it. Like it's just part of Colby, like just trying to show out a little bit, I think was what bothers me. Like, I don't mind. I don't, it's not the hat.

So wait, you, you, oh, I see. So you actually think objectively looks good in the hat, but when he puts it on, this alter ego shows up? Yeah, I kind of. Dude, it's something I'm comfortable in, you know? Like let a man wear a cowboy hat if he likes to wear a cowboy hat.

That's what I'm saying. It was just like, I don't know, walking in like in a suit and the cowboy hat and all the girls are like, so I don't like this is such shit. I don't know. But I don't I don't hate the hat. I just feel like it's just him trying to put on something. But Madeline, if you're saying it like. Like if when you didn't know Kobe and you came came in walking with a hat you're saying it like it

would have totally worked on you and that's what pisses you off now because now you know kobe and you know he's like a human being and like he's not like and i say this not as a dickish way kobe he's not as cool as you originally might have thought when you didn't know him because none of us are right when we meet someone we get nervous we're've thought when you didn't know him. Cause none of us are right. When we meet someone, we get nervous. We're like, I kind of don't know. I don't like, like my current girlfriend or vice versa. Like we, we're like scared to talk to this person we now are in love with. Right. And you're like, Oh, cause they're so cool. But like now you,

it's like, you don't want them to wear that hat because you're going to be like ladies. He's not, he's just not actually that cool he's a basic white guy yeah pretty much pretty much okay hold on i said that was like a white boy colby we we are it's okay it's fine i'm sure you're wonderful but like you know what we're saying well why don't we do a double date i'll go get drinks and you can find out and i won't wear my cowboy hat i'm sure you're wildly dynamic yeah you were a one one rate one one runway model i found out uh moments before is that true is that i've done some modeling in the past yeah not a lot of it but yeah you looked very pretty thank you handsome guy is the baby

gonna have a baby cowboy hat i I think is the better question. Is Madeline going to allow the baby to wear a hat? Yes, the baby can wear a hat. Yeah, the baby will look cute in a hat. It's so contradicting, I swear. Women all, yeah, but women look great in cowboy hats. It's, yeah, they- Dude, cowboy boots, Daisy Dukes, a little crop top. I kind of agree with Madeline here

because it's like when a guy puts on, like, I don't wear cowboy hats, but I'm sure there's a version of me wearing something where I think I'm really cool. Is it a scarf? Like the high top Vans. Those aren't cool. I like those.

These aren't Vans. These are Italian polos. Oh. Aldos. Oh. Aldos, no. I like them. Guys, thank you so much. You guys are great. All the best to you guys.

And if you guys are ever in LA or we're in Austin, we'll take you up on that double date. Sounds good. All right. Take care, guys. Best of luck. Nice talking to you. Bye.

All right. Bye-bye. All right. Since Madeline and Kobe are very much in love and don't really have something they're fighting about to do a mediation, we're going to play our mediation call now. Very relatable stuff. We got mother-in-laws. We got finances.

All a big melting pot of potentially problems. And let's see if we were able to save the day once again. Let's get to our caller.'s it going guys good what's your names i'm ellen and i'm 28 and i'm chase and i am 30 yeah and we're married we've been married for a year now but together for three okay how can i help what's who wants it who wants to tell the story i'll let her go first because she uh she's the one who uh has been the most intimately involved in it great okay i'm waiting i am waiting for one you're so far it's been unanimous it's every every mediation call it's always yes there's always one person it's always the woman so far. It hasn't been the guy. But one day, one day the guy will be like,

I'm the reason we call. Anyway, I digress. Go ahead. You're good. When we first got together, we were living at his mom's house with his mom. And then through a series of lots of circumstances, she moved out and we have the house now. And we've been waiting on through the course of our relationship, we've been waiting on certain milestones to happen so that we could decide whether or not we want to keep the house or whether or not we want to move out and find our own place. A few of those factors are the fact that Chase was waiting on a sellout from his company that would give him a huge cash out. And we were going to use that potentially as a down payment. And then secondly, we were waiting, not waiting until we got married, but

until we got the pressure of the wedding done so that we could decide whether or not we wanted to pursue a place. And then we were also, we also had to consider the fact that through a series of an executor and a trust that the house technically belongs to his mom, but she's kind of our landlord. And so long story short, we got married and then Chase had the buyout and it was less than we anticipated. And also the housing market kind of blew up in where we are exponentially. And so now we're trying to decide what we want to do and the thing that I'm having the most trouble with and that I would like an external person to get involved in is that we can't ever seem to finish a conversation about it without getting into oh well this affects this and this

affects that and this affects that and then we reach a certain what I think is an impasse and then we don't talk about it anymore. But then also there are certain things that I'm just like, oh, okay, then we're definitely staying here because the rent's super cheap and there's not really a lot of cons to staying here. Except that his relationship with his mother ebbs and flows, not in a tempestuous way, but just in a way that they don't really communicate the way that I like to communicate, which is logically and very straightforward. They get really emotional about it and really manipulative, but that's also just the way that they communicate. And I'm coming at it from a completely different background. So I feel like I'm an interloper, but it's also part of my life.

So there will be certain things where I'm just like, okay, we're staying here. It's the best fit for all of us. And then she'll say, oh, but I need this much more rent, or I need you to pay the taxes, or I need you to pay the bills or anything like that. And then they have a conversation that's just 20 text messages long. That's about that, where they just start yelling at each other over text. And then he has to come to me and say, hey, she wants to do this. And she's super sweet. And she has this belief that like the daughter-in-law and the mother-in-law is the most easily compromised relationship that you can have.

So I think she's just trying not to conflate it with this side of it. So I'm trying to understand that and respect it. But at the same time, I need to have a conversation with her about it. And so I'm trying to have a conversation with him at the same time i need to have a conversation with her about it and so i'm trying to have a conversation with him at the same time that he's trying not to be emotionally overwhelmed by her about these factors chase do you agree with your wife's

assessment that when you fight with your mom that you guys can be manipulative with one another uh it's just aggressive it's like it starts off as passive aggressive and then it just turns into aggressiveness so do you you so you agree that you would like to do you do you like how you communicate with your mom uh it's it could need some help it could need some work okay right but i guess but i also that's like because when you said to Chase, like, I don't like how he communicates with his mom. My first reaction was, that's none of your business. Yeah. Right.

Now you went on to say, well, there can be manipulative and things like that. And that's also your opinion. That's why I asked Chase what his thoughts were. were like listen if it's if if two if if you're seeing two people you care about communicate in a toxic unhealthy way like obviously like it's good that you're there to help or like say hey just it's it's you seem upset or blah blah blah or whatever like can i help but also like it's got to come from chase like you know he's got to get to the point where i don't like how i talk to my mom it doesn't feel healthy and ultimately you just have to the point where I don't like how I talk to my mom. It doesn't feel healthy. And ultimately you just have to be careful that it doesn't frustrate you more than

it frustrates Chase. You can't want it more for Chase. Right. So I think sometimes we, we do that with our partners and we have an opinion about a situation that we, you know, we see because we're there and we're that third party who's like our partner and we tell them how they think and feel and respond. And that just like, especially in an emotional situation when it comes to family, I know it comes from a place of love. It can feel sometimes like it's not helpful. And I don't know if that's how Chase feels, but it can sometimes feel like you're not helping me communicate with my mom better. You just, you're just telling me I'm doing it wrong. And I don't know, how do you feel about that? Like, like, so I'm just really curious about that. Cause when you talked about that, I'm just really curious how much of is a

priority for you to fix how you speak with your mom? Like is, is what Ellen is saying, Ellen saying helpful, or do you feel like a little helpless like well yeah it sucks but i don't know what to do about it uh it's just probably the latter honestly it's like because i mean we've been doing this pretty much my whole life it's gotten better i would say probably in the last five years than it had it was you know growing up right you know up until my you know when i was a child it was pretty good then when i, you know, when I was a child, it was pretty good. Then when I hit, you know, puberty and through puberty all the way through college, it was really, really rough. I just our communication just like always fell through and it turned into a lot of screaming and fighting. And now we're to a point where I think most of our conversations are more constructive than deconstructive.

And I think that just overall, the relationship I have with my mother is better than it ever has been. Uh, even if it is still a little bit, uh, tumultuous at times. Gotcha. Well, hey, listen, every, a lot of people have, uh, challenging relationships with their parents. Um, so, and remind me, I just want to make sure I understand your, your living situation is now is that you are currently renting from your mom. Right. So, uh, so basically the way the house is set up is that there's this house and another house and they're both in the trust, right? My grandmother left them both, uh, to us. So it's me, my brother and my mom were all in trust together. So, uh, I then pay the trust, um, about $600 a month, which is nothing, right?

It's very minimal, especially when it comes to rent, right? And then on top of that, I pay all of the bills. Before this, it was, and we were living here for probably about a year before that. And I was paying just like something even smaller because I was just renting out one room when I was here. So it was $250 then. And then once everyone moved out and we got most of her stuff out and helped her move into the new place, then she's like, okay, well, let's start to talk about rent again. And we went back and forth, back and forth. And we settled on, I would pay $600 a month, but then at the end of the year,

I'll pay the taxes on the property, which ends up being about $2,000. Okay. And so that's our current arrangement. And then at the end of this year, we're going to talk about it again. And I think we're going to, I think we're talking about bumping it up to 800. And the overall goal here is to put in enough money into this house to make it rentable, right? It's a decent sized house.

Before putting some money into it, I think I could have rented it for probably a grand pretty easily. And then but now with all the improvements that I'm putting into it, you know, new lighting, new ceiling fans, I know that I can rent it for probably closer to 15. Right. Fifteen hundred. So the idea is to put enough money into this house to make it profitable for my mom when I when I move out. of money into this house to make it profitable for my mom when I move out. And then also be able to save up enough money to be able to have a down payment on a house and move out in hopefully a year or so. A completely different house. Yes. We're not considering buying this house or anything. This house is like something that will stay in the family for as long as we need. And if anything ever happens, this will be a place that any three of us could return back gotcha so you

you were gifted by these properties you guys have chosen to they're in a trust you're they're you're going to basically use them as investments you're currently living there right now so you're paying the rent and things like that like and so what what is i guess the challenge then this all sounds reasonable what you're talking about what's the what's the challenge or what's the comment specifically like what's causing the conflict between you two i think the challenge is that she feels like she's we're stuck right we can't really move forward we can't really move backwards right because and every time uh every time we've set a goal right we we've been moving that goal post a little bit further a little bit further right and i think the frustration comes from the fact of not knowing where we're going to be in a year or not know where we're going to be in a year and a half.

I think that's where, and then on top of that, plus putting money into this house instead of putting money into a savings account. I think I've done about the most that I want to do. I put about two thousand dollars three thousand dollars into this house so out of curiosity when you when you move out like you your mom and your brother will be like splitting the equity right right yes see but that has never been established so uh because we're not selling the house it would potentially be just for rent right so are you the only one putting money into the house yes yes and it sounds like ellen you have some concerns about the time and money he's

putting in and and the security of of how that will be split because yeah that doesn't seem totally right like if you're putting, especially cash, right? Like that's quantifiable. Like you should, you know, first money in, first money out type of thing. Like when you guys, you should be able to recoup your financial investment. And if not, then that should have changed the equity. You're putting more equity in, whether it's the cash you put in or also your time, your time as well.

Yeah. I think the big thing that I think the big thing is, and I'm going to talk to, we haven't really, we haven't, we're not even to the point yet, but I've talked to my mom about this and the past, which is that,

you know, however much money I put into the house, you know, over whenever you start renting it out, you know, I would want, I want some portion of that rent back to me to pay to recoup that cost. And then from there, the majority of the money would either go into the trust to keep funding the trust or go to my mom as passive income.

Well, actually, I mean, I think a better way of saying it's your mom. Because when you say, I want a portion of the rent, that kind of can be confusing. Right. So like if you put money in, so if you put a dollar in, if you spend a dollar on supplies, you should be able to get your costs back. Right. Right. So there's that. And that you can tally that.

You can keep the receipts. You can quantify that. And the second one is your time. Right. And the second one is your time, right? So, like, you guys, you and your mom should agree on an hourly rate of, like, what you are worth, your time and work that you put in. Because if you're not doing it, then you would hire, like, some sort of contractor, whether it's plumbing or construction work or, like, concrete or, like, finished woodworking, and they would charge you a fee. So, don't call it half the rent. It's, like, separate, right? Because half the rent makes makes it seem like what do you mean you get half the rent back i have the trust yeah have the trust recuperate yeah so you're just essentially billing the trust right you're you're you're you're just a

contractor right and you might be and then maybe the reason why your mom and then you and your brother agree to hire you is because you're cheaper you know like you're doing it at a significant discount because like a a plumber or electrician or a contractor might charge two or three times more i don't know i don't you know and so but i think that's what you just need to make things very clear because when you say a portion of the trust that's gray and it seems unquantifiable. Right. But the hours you spend in an agreed upon hourly rate and the supplies at which you built,

that's easily quantifiable. And like, that's what anyone would do. And fine, get a third party to determine like what your worth is if you guys have a hard time agreeing on what that is. But that shouldn't be all that hard to set aside and then it's having conversations around like yeah and then it's just like whatever that number is you get that you get reimbursed right uh so what other what did you have any other mostly just have trouble initiating these conversations like i don't know if this is

the solution but it definitely will oversimplify, which is like, maybe you just agree to paying fair market value to the rent and then not pay the taxes and not be the one solely responsible for the bills. Cause that that's like, that's not how it would be done in a non-family situation. Like I, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes. Moving from a family situation to a legal existence situation. Yeah. And I charge my tenants fair market value and I pay my bills, I pay my taxes. Moving from a family situation to a legal existence situation. Yeah, and I charge my tenants fair market value, and I pay the bills. But because you're getting a discount, now it's just like, well, if you get a discount, then maybe it would be more fair if you pay the bills, and then all of a sudden you're

not getting a discount anymore. So why don't you just pay fair market value and then have the trust pay the bills? Now, you're still going to be a third responsible for the taxes and the bills, but like that should be deducted from the trust. Like, and I only said this because like my uncle's like an accountant, I was an accounting major, but like I have my uncle who does my books and like, you know, it's, I'm like a one man shop for something like all my businesses, but I have to like be cognizant of like where I'm taking money out of and what accounts I put it into because like if you were to get audited or whatever, like they need to be able to account for that stuff. So like you shouldn't be pulling like stuff from the rent. Like the trust should be paying the taxes

and the trust should be paying the bills. Those where you should be writing checks from and your rent should be from your personal name, right? Because you are the tenant. So why don't you just simplify the accounting essentially, and just do what you would do, like treat yourselves like tenants, the tenants you would be if you moved out and you rented there, right? And then have everyone agree on that rent. And if your rent goes up, so be it. But like, that's the right way to do it. It gets really complicated and confusing. And you guys are trying to negotiate or compromise on things that there's like, are kind of arbitrary. And don't really make sense to like, if you went to an accountant, they'd be like, well, I don't, why are you doing this?

Correct me if i'm wrong it sounds like if you can figure out this like conflict you have that's ongoing with your mom that seems to be like easily fixed because there are there's a clear answer which is like stop trying to do things because it's family and just do it the right way right uh see the thing is though is and then that's where it kind of gets a little more difficult right is because if we start doing it the right way, then that's $800, $700 less that we're able to put in a savings account. We're not putting that money into a savings account though. We're spending it on a house and we pay the bills. Do you, let me ask you a question.

Do you have an answer? Do you know, do you even know what your total expense, like if I'm your accountant, I'd be like, what does that cost? It's simple math. And maybe hire or get a bookkeeper or someone, like, what are your taxes, what are your bills, and what is your rent? And add it all up and separate the two. Right.

Because I don't know. It doesn't sound like you guys know. Well, I do. Okay. But it's something you should literally be able to put on paper or excel spreadsheet and determine whether it's costing you more or less because you're fixated on the rent and and to ellen's point you literally might be paying more overall and if it's not going into a savings either way what like what is the what's the point you know so get a handle on your finances and be honest with yourself about you know really getting a discount so you're you so get a handle on your finances and be honest with yourself about, you know,

really getting a discount. So you're, you need to, A, just do the accounting right and make it simple. So like, it just is what it is and find out what is the best possible. You, you both need to get on the same page there. Cause you're not, you're clearly not like you think you're paying more than you otherwise would. And you don't yeah so it ends up being i've done the math before it ends up being like five hundred dollars less overall per year so i mean it's really not that okay so for five hundred dollars is not five hundred dollars over the course of the year and like i'm not here to tell you how you should value money but it doesn't seem like five hundred dollars over the course of a year when you told told me $600 for one month, is worth this conflict with your mom that's constantly

ongoing. So pay the extra $500 in rent over the course of the year, or not, or maybe negotiate it after the fact, but negotiate in a way where the accounting is clear. Make the accounting clear. negotiate in a way where the finance, the accounting is clear. Make the accounting clear. Okay. Be a united front. And even though you delegate tasks, it's, it's for the benefit of both of you.

Right. Because like you're delegating tasks and like Ellen, you're not seeing it as a benefit to you and vice versa. You're like, why are you looking at houses? We kind of found our house right now. Like, well, that's not helpful. Yeah. You know, does that make sense? Is this helpful? I don yeah yeah it's really good okay okay all right yeah so we'll talk in six months and see

how it goes all right sounds good best of luck guys wow we did it heroes what are heroes not all heroes wear capes some of them wear headphones sometimes they just have mics thank you to madeline and colby uh thank you to Madeline and Colby. Thank you to our mediation callers. Don't forget to send in your questions at asknick at castmedia.com, cast with a K for our mediation calls, our Ask Nick episodes. Can't thank you guys enough for listening. Subscribe, rate, review, all that fun stuff.

We are back on Monday for our Ask Nick episode, along with Tuesday, Kale Lowry, Clayton Eckhart, Wednesday, Josh Peck. Get mediated. Get mediated. Please get mediated. Bye.