The Viall Files - E416 Dr. Darcy’s Reactions to Amber & Johnny Court Case plus Morgan Absher

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor Gossip Edition! Today we are joined by Content Creator and Co-Host of the Two Hot Takes Podcast, Morgan Absher. On this episode we dive into the latest drama on Selling Sunset and mythbust the allegations that the phone calls on the show are fake. We also talk about Olivia Wilde being served paper in a spiteful public fashion, how playing a beloved character makes people treat actors better, and updates on Nick potentially seeing Harry Styles. We also continue to talk about the latest developments on the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial. We bring in the host of E! Network’s Famously Single and therapist, Dr. Darcy Sterling, to bring her expertise into what is happening, what Amber’s personality disorders mean for how she perceives reality, and breaking down the stigma that comes with diagnosing certain disorders. We also talk about how Johnny’s relationship with his mother still affects him, how toxic traits take time to come to light, and how toxicity can attract toxicity.  “What you do anywhere is what you do everywhere”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Babbel: Right now, save up to 60% off your subscription when you go to http://www.Babbel.com/Viall Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @morgsyabsher @twohottakes @drdarcysterling If you are experiencing domestic violence, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233, or go to thehotline.org. All calls are toll-free and confidential. The hotline is available 24/7 in more than 170 languages. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to an exciting new episode of the vile files freestyle edition i just decided officially until further notice. That's what we're calling it. We have what I hope, I think is going to be another jam-packed fantastic episode for you. My friend Morgan Apshur is with us in studio today to help break down all the craziness

that is going on in the pop culture world. I'm so scared. Why are you scared? I don't know. There's just a lot going on right now. There is. It's very tumultuous. We have, obviously, the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial,

which we'll be discussing more of. So much things we have yet to cover. We have Dr. Darcy. She'll be zooming in here at some point this episode. You may know her from E!

Famously Single. Is that the show she's like the love expert on? Anyways, she's been following this case also with some intrigue. I know after last week's episode, a doctor, a forensic psychologist, I think it was, came on and testified and talked about Amber Heard's personality disorder. What does that mean? Does that mean multi-personality? We want to get a breakdown of what that all means. One question I'm curious of, and maybe the dear doctor can help us out with this, like how is this not a violation of amber heard's hippa rights because it's like in court like now the world knows of her diagnosis her mental health and while certainly we're watching this uh trial with some intrigue kind of seems like a violation

of like her personal information yeah which is why this whole trial is so shocking because typically celebrities don't subject themselves to just opening up like this so that's like it's like you knew this shit was going to come out but here we are what is what is her diagnosis even mean in terms of um her ability to i mean mean, I don't know, comprehend reality, I guess, to a certain degree. Her reality is definitely different than ours. I don't know.

Dr. Darcy will help us understand what this all means. I have an update. I don't know if you're aware of this, Morgan, but we're big Harry Styles fans here on this show. I saw him in concert a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it was good. And then I was reminded of the story that I told my audience where, like, my dream is to have Harry Styles on the podcast. I want him to do an Ask Nick where people call in with their relationship questions and Harry Styles and I empathetically and lovingly give feedback.

That's a good dream. I think he would enjoy it. Yeah. You don't seem like you believe it's possible. I absolutely think it's possible for you. Anywho, I was running. Six months from now. I was running around my neighborhood as I do.

And this is like a year and a half ago. Okay. And a gentleman in an old school Mercedes drove up to the stop sign and I was running and we looked at each other and I thought to myself, is that Harry Styles? And I thought, no way. But something in my brain was so convinced it might be Harry Styles that I DM'd him. Okay. And I was like, was that you running?

Was that you driving? And I was like, was that you running? Was that you driving? And honest, I don't remember if the car was black. This is a, if you're watching this on YouTube, this is a black old school Mercedes, but it's clearly Harry Styles. And honestly, I think it probably was him. It probably was him. It probably was him. It was him. Easily.

And so like Harry and I, Harry Styles and I had a moment. You made eye contact. He definitely, the person I saw recognized me yeah and i recognized them and we like stared at each other it's like that spider-man like yeah i don't know if it was that much and i don't know if he was excited i've heard he watches the bachelor it might have just been like that fucking guy um no i'm sure he was excited i don't know if he was excited but i do i just know that he so i just feel like we're already putting it out there like we got this come yeah we're manifesting yeah so i don't know anyway it's

gonna happen yeah i think so i have faith in you do we want to like bring people up to speed with what we know about the trial before that what what are the burning questions we have for the doctor do we want to discuss that so amber shit on someone's bed try to blame the dog yeah i mean that was the best quote from that was um def's response to that was he said they're teacup yorkies they weigh about four pounds each the photograph that i saw i lived with those dogs for many years it was not the dogs there's a clear difference between dog poop and human feces. As someone who lives in Hollywood, I definitely know that difference. Yeah, you walk down the street, you see piles of it everywhere.

Like, LA's a little, it's not the cleanest sometimes. But also, like, small dog. Yeah, you know. It's tiny. If something's four pounds. And she said she was joking, so she's admitted to this, yes? We can... I'm not sure.

She did finally admit it? I guess. I think the testimony of the... Limo driver? She called it a horrible practical joke. It was like the head of security. It was the quote. Yeah.

It's, yeah, the limo driver and that's what the guard said. That's a non-negotiable for me. Shitting on the bed? Yeah, that's not... The security guards told a non-negotiable for me yeah shitting on the bed yeah that's not the security guards told the court that he and amber heard had a conversation pertaining to the surprise she left in the boss's bed i mean i get everyone poops but holy shit but we can agree that this was a horrid act of amber's are we or are we on the fence of like oh no it's funny not funny no okay i don't know. We have people.

Just want to make sure we're on the same page. Yeah. Well, and it was before she like left for a trip too. To Coachella. She like up and left. She shit on a bed and then went to Coachella. Damn. There's something about every time they say Coachella in this case that just, I mean, I don't know, maybe it's because I've been to Coachella and there's like, I've done that

too. Like I can. You can relate in some way. Yeah. There are people just like us. Celebrities are just like us. But it does. It also like kind of begs the question because it shows like the depths of their fights and like what was happening.

And so it's sort of like, wow. Like how were they? were they what i really am curious like kind of like what the dialogue was like for both of them in choosing to stay together when they knew this is how ugly and insane their fights were getting well i think that's again a question for dr darcy i've had conversations with friends not other doctors about what this diagnosis of of of her personality means part of which I heard was this, and I think they've talked about this in this trial, this fear of abandonment, which would make sense in theory, right?

Like if you have a type of personality that pushes people away, I can only assume that as you in adult life have these intimate relationships, you might know there's like something off like you know you push people away and that compounds the this fear of abandonment but you can't help yourself no i mean we all self-sabotage this is that on a way bigger scale and i wonder if you know again we can i suppose have empathy for amber that she might have this yeah condition not an excuse for any shitting or violent behavior well even people without personality disorders or mental

like health struggles like this there's so many ways to just get stuck in that toxic relationship loop and stuff you put up with it you're like this i know this isn't healthy but like maybe it'll get better oh we love each other we can work it out and so it's like this is again just on a way bigger worse scale yeah it's very it's it's rough and then we've seen since last week pictures of johnny depp and his black eye um have you also seen the the video of this went around like a while ago but the video that someone caught on the red carpet where she raises her hand to like move her hair and people think he like kind of flinches and like looks over because she raises her hand it's like a very interesting moment i'll see if i can

find it but it's like a very interesting moment. I'll see if I can find it, but it's like a very. Yeah, I saw that one. If you don't have a grandfather like Amanda to teach you things like German, but you still want to connect, still want to connect with a family member. If you want to connect when you're traveling, language is so learning language is good for your brain folks.

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is I don't get why it's so long. Because at this point, and again, I'm dumb and I don't know anything, but it seems like we at least from what we heard from the trial that there's evidence that suggests or there's evidence that shows that amber heard was physically abusive towards johnny we've learned about her diagnosis we've seen the text messages to amber heard from johnny that's, I think, for a lot of people, we know it's not okay to talk that way, but I think a lot of people have,

a lot of people are thinking, I've said some crazy shit in the heat of the moment that's much different than following through with any of those things. And I think because, again because again last week there's that i think you see it all the time like the death knell is pretending you're one way or portraying yourself as something only to be found out that you might be different and people really react to that so in this case you have for i think for a lot of people, we all just took Amber Heard at her word. We looked at Johnny Depp after this op-ed is in a very different way.

Yeah, for sure. in england and and depp lost that case and i think there's there's still people who have said well that that proves that he did these things i don't i could be that might be true i don't know but my understanding is all they've proved is that and they have very different laws in england and free speech is like propped up more than it is here like the press is harsh and they get away with kind of virtually anything there and my understanding is the only thing that johnny depp lost there was them saying like we see enough proof to say that this paper is not liable for doing that well i don't know if that necessarily i have still have yet to see any hard evidence that Johnny physically abused Amber. And again, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I haven't seen it, but I think you're seeing a lot

of people almost kind of reverse engineer what they used to think about Johnny and Amber and everything they're digesting seems to be as a reaction to that, right? I feel like I'm just seeing this incredible support and empathy for Johnny, it seems, out in the public. Yeah, definitely. I think people are ready to boycott Disney in the next Pirates movie, and I think there's been a big resurgence of his fans. This is kind of weird to me, like all the fan edits of like him in court have you guys seen those where it's like thirst traps over like this court footage and

like what he's saying and stuff and i'm like okay you can show support but like this is this is also like a very important trial so i'm like the thirst traps kind of weird me out but yeah it's nice to see like him gaining that support because he he was so hurt by that like his apology videos that he came out he's like i'm so sorry i'm putting you my fans in this terrible position and so it's it's hard even like i think it was his lawyer that was saying what did you lose as a result of this op-ed and he just took a moment and he was like i lost everything yeah like you could tell how emotional he was and he was like everyone now views me as someone who would abuse women and who did all these things yeah and it's it seems like he made the choice between knowing that things were gonna

come out about yeah to your point like celebrities just don't do this no like even when they've done things wrong or even when when they've done things wrong or even when they haven't done things wrong, it's just, the playbooks just, well, not only settle,

but it's just like, just, it'll, it'll go away. Blow over. It'll blow over and honestly, it usually does,

but Johnny was just like, I don't care what comes out about me. He just wants to clear his name. I, you know, it's, the impression is,

he's just like, I don't hit women. I don't hit people. I might have said some crazy things i might have said some things you can you can call me a verbally abuser if you want i don't know if he's down for that but it just seems like you know there was this text message thread that i was made public where it was johnny depp i don't know who he was who he was texting but he was basically like bettany maybe yeah and he Depp. I don't know who he was, who he was texting, but he was basically like, yeah. And he was basically like, I don't go fuck anymore. Like it was kind of like this, do what you want with me. I have no fear. She doesn't believe I'm going to do this. I don't care anymore. And regardless of what you think about this case, when you read

that, you're kind of, I think we all know what it's like to kind of feel like we're stuck in a corner maybe not on this level but on some point in life you kind of feel like people are against you or whatever it is and you kind of have that like i don't give a fuck mentality anymore and it feels kind of empowering sometimes and i feel like a lot of people saw this and and the rallying behind johnny yeah well it's like he was so backed into the corner. He had no more cards to play. And so it's like at that point when you have nothing left, it's like, fuck it all. Like, here we go.

And so I think like the recording that he does have where it was like her talking and she was like, yeah, go tell the world, Johnny. Tell the world that you were abused by a woman. And it's like that gaslighting it's like and i think that hearing that anyone has heard that we talked about this last week like what is it like i think it's just triggering for everyone it's everyone it's triggering for men who have been uh emotionally abused by their partners or even physically abused and felt like no one's going

to believe me. I think it's triggering for women, both, especially people who have been victims of like, what is it going to say? People aren't going to believe us anymore. They're going to use this as an excuse to like reasons for not to believe victims of any kind, you know, men or women. And I think people are just so like that hearing that was yeah and that's and i guess that was my original point i didn't finish it but i'm confused why this trial is so long because despite what now it seems like we don't we have the information we need now it just seems like an assassination of amber's character or it's just like now we just want like it seems like johnny depp seems just want to pile on of tell these horrid stories about her.

I don't know. I just wonder if it's that or if her lawyers are just doing such a poor job. And in terms of public opinion, they're mockery on the internet. Did you see the video where Johnny Depp's, Amber Heard's lawyer objected to his own question? Which technically, yeah. And then lawyer objected to his own question. Which technically,

yeah. And then he almost like, he sounded confused. And the judge is just like, you asked the question. Which like, I've, TikTok,

you see all these like, lawyers break it down. He was correct in what he was trying to do, but he used the wrong words to do it. So it's not like, you can't object

to your own question, but you can like, you can like, invalidate the response based on hearsay so he he fumbled the bag in terms of like what he said he could have it was it was legit but not legit how he said it yeah i think you gotta you gotta you think you have to throw a perfect game you do you do i mean this is court this isn't you know what i mean? But everyone's like, yeah, she got her lawyers on Wish. These are the Wish lawyers. TaskRabbit. Yeah. All right, we'll break it down more, but we have Dr. Darcy here. She is going to join us,

and we have some questions for her. Dr. Darcy, thank you for joining. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Before we kind of dive into all the things we want to talk about with you, can you let my audience know a little bit about you, your background, your expertise, and then we'll go from there. Sure. So I'm a licensed clinical social worker and I practice in New York City. My practice, Alternatives Counseling, has been around for 27 years. And I specialize in helping people thrive in their relationships. Amazing. I'm a relationship therapist. Oh, wonderful. Well, we're hoping that maybe you could shed some light on some of the things that

we're seeing in this trial. I think I would need a laser beam, or I'm not sure if I need a laser beam or a spotlight, but yes, by all means, my intention is to try and connect some dots for people. So are you able, I think our biggest question is to help us understand, like last week, there was a doctor who diagnosed Amber Heard with, what was the diagnosis? It was... Histrionic personality disorder was one of them. Okay.

And borderline personality disorder was the other. So what does that mean? Because I think a lot of people, including myself, were first kind of like, oh, she's got multiple personalities or, you know, I think there's a lot of ignorance around that, which I don't think is the case. So what does that mean? And I guess, like, other than being like, oh, Amber Heard's crazy, you know, is it that personality disorders are very, very sensitive to rejection and abandonment. And they unwittingly provoke it in their partners and in people in their lives. lots of game playing, lots of testing to confirm that the relationship is really as solid as they need it to be to feel safe and secure in the relationship. And the defining characteristic of both of those personality disorders is the person feels emotions very, very intensely. So heightened sensitivity to emotions. Zero goes from zero to 10. So zero being completely neutral on the discomfort scale, 10 being the most uncomfortable

imaginable. They feel those eight nines and tens on a regular basis and can almost never sense as they're escalating. They go from zero to 10 almost instantaneously. So their emotions are very, very heightened. And what it does, not to dork out too much, is it throws them into the part of their brain called the amygdala, which is the oldest part of our brain. And it, it really like when you're in that part of the brain, the part of your brain that can think your right mind, the part of your brain that can anticipate consequences to your behaviors, it's pulled offline. Once you're in the amygdala, the prefrontal cortex is offline. And so they, is offline. And so they, and all the amygdala does is it keeps you alive. So they're immediately thrown into a fight response style and doesn't necessarily mean they take off their gloves,

but obviously in this case, she took off lots of things. Gloves, I think probably, I don't even know. Like the, the, the fighting I read about was just at a level that I've been practicing 27 years. I've never heard of fighting like that. Now, to be clear, I do tend to work with the gifted and talented on the mental health spectrum. I tend to deal with people who are killing it in their lives and just want more from their relationships. Although sometimes people walk to come into me limping a little, they are not, these are people who the rest of us just really want. We're inspired by these people that I work with. But that said, I didn't always work with this population.

I've worked with people from all walks of life. I've never heard of fighting like this. So the heightened fight response style causes them to engage in a pattern of attention-seeking behaviors when they're escalated, which happens very easily. And it feels to the person who has these personality disorders, as though they're going to die. They can't imagine a moment in time where they're not going to feel this way. They can't ponder that. They're very impulsive. And they will do anything to keep the connection going with their partner. So like, for example, when Johnny claims that he has stepped away and said he needed to cool off, if that's not done in a very specific way, it feels very

much like an abandonment to the person who has this personality disorder. She or they feel provoked and will often go to great lengths, as we've all sadly read, to keep the person engaged, either verbally or physically or whatever. And so it's really about this hypervigilance around abandonment and rejection. They imagine it where it doesn't need to be existing, and they respond to it very impulsively and very toxically. That was such a long-winded answer. it sounds like people with these personality disorders would just naturally push people away and they must there must be some sort of self-awareness over time to know that like boy no one can stand me after a couple months of dating them and do they become even more like escalated even more like the more aggressive more or is it just they just are this and it's always been an issue? They don't walk into a relationship with this as their calling card. They don't lead with this kind of behavior. There's small testing that's going on early in the relationship that when the partner or the prospective partner doesn't

set a boundary, doesn't look like revolted and horrified by the behaviors, is a teaching, the person internalizes that as, oh, I mean, it's not conscious what is happening, but like we teach people how to treat us. So if, you know, if I'm on a date with somebody and we have a disagreement and that person hangs up on me, I'm probably, there's going to be a big consequence to the fact that the person even hung up on me, let alone calls me names, let alone escalates the volume of their voice, let alone breaks things or threatens to break up. So what these people wind up doing is they repulse healthy people. And the people that they surround themselves with are sort of people who will tolerate this. They know that that's the

price of admission to be in a relationship with these people. So the question that you asked, backing up, was does this get progressively worse over time, right? And I think the answer is yes, it does. It either gets, yes, it gets worse over time because what she actually needs is somebody who can stand up to her and set a boundary and say no. But what we've got is these two people who are so riddled in privilege, both because they're white and because they're straight and because they're rich and because they're celebrities and because of what they look like. All of these things are different boxes that are, that are ticked in the privilege category.

And they've got so much of it that like nobody ever says no to either one of them. And so together they were just like an atomic bomb. They were beyond toxic. Yeah. What role does Johnny Depp has talked about his relationship with his mother and how that was sounded like maybe abusive or at least problematic. What role of at all does that play on, you know, maybe Johnny being drawn or accepting of this type of behavior as opposed to someone who's just like, well, that's, that's a boundary I can no longer be a part of and just walks away. He stayed around

for a while. Oh, he absolutely did. So he offers this up as an excuse or an explanation for how he found himself in this crazy relationship. And actually, for those of us who are trained, we hear that and say, so basically, you're saying you haven't done your own work, you didn't do your own healing. And when you don't heal it, you date it, or you marry it, or you become business partners with it like that, you know, nobody gets to bypass their own work. And the fact that he was in a relationship with somebody like her tells me everything I need to know about his mental health or lack thereof. So is there a predisposition to be attracted to people who

wound us in similar ways to the ways our parents wounded us? Absolutely. That's why we go to therapy when we're adults. We go to therapy not to reenact those patterns. What are some things that would be, you know, minus things we're seeing in this trial, but anyone listening like would be a wake up call for maybe I need to get therapy or, you know, like obviously we're, we're, we're, yeah, we're, everyone needs to get therapy. Everyone needs to get therapy. Yes. If you want to, if you just to be the walking wounded, you need to be in therapy. If you want to thrive, you definitely need therapy. out of childhood having hit the childhood lottery and don't have wounds is a level of, I don't know, I don't know if it's willful ignorance or if it's naivete or if it's arrogance or grandiosity, but none of those look good to me. It's wrong. We all come out of childhood with a little bit, we all come out with certain fractures and certain predispositions.

And unless you came out of your childhood and you were like, yo, I want to sign up for that exact thing. If that's not what you want in your adult relationship, then yeah, go into therapy, analyze your life, understand why you are the way you are so you can actually guide a partner. You know, had he done the work that he did or that he should have done that he didn't do, he would have smelled her and the familiarity of how she is such a close representation of his mother if what he says is true, he would have smelt that a mile away and he would have recognized that he was attracted to it the same way we're all attracted to certain people with certain traits that aren't good with us, good for us. Your listeners, lots of people will be able to relate to the person who's slightly unavailable.

That's so attractive to so many of us. I love somebody who I have to chase just a little bit. That's really, really attractive to me. But when you've done your own work, you recognize that that is a person, you can recognize that propensity to be attracted to that kind of person and talk yourself through it. You have to recognize your relationship patterns that come from your childhood and make different choices, but you can only make those different choices when you know what your relationship patterns are because you've looked at your childhood, you know, and we don't all have to sign up for psychoanalysis. I don't do that stuff.

We don't all have to sit on a couch and talk about our childhood experiences ad nauseum. Like a good therapist gets that out of you in like four hours and then can show you how your current day choices all harken back to those experiences that you had as a little kid. I'm wondering, Amber has obviously made it very far. To make it in Hollywood, you have to be a certain level of charming and all of this stuff. And so I look at my experience with certain personality disorders or other mental you know health diagnoses and i just wonder if it was almost a bait and switch because you don't hear a lot of his past relationships having any of these you know volatile or toxic tendencies sure yeah so i'm just wondering like was it a bait and switch where she was charming and charismatic? Because histrionic, it is really rare, but those people come off as very sure of themselves initially and very confident and have this air about them, almost like in Anna Delvey,

where you're just drawn to them in a sense because of how grandiose they are. And so I'm just wondering if for him, it was that bait and switch where he didn't even know what he was into until he was six months or even had the ring. Yeah. I mean, is there something there where he almost, I get what you're saying. It's just like, there isn't a history of him dating, I guess, people like Amber, but because he has maybe this history with his mother that he almost kind of got caught in a fly trap but once he was caught then he was kind of stuck responding he kind of got trapped in like this relationship with his mother is there something there to that because he doesn't he his dating history doesn't

suggest yeah that he's always dated people like this yeah so i would say I would be willing to put it in blood that there is no way that he doesn't have some of this toxicity threading through most of his long-term relationships. were the, his, his exes were healthier than Amber and they just didn't roll the way she rolls. But the, what you do anywhere is what you do everywhere. So he didn't just get caught in a fly trap. He's attracted to women who behave a certain way. And it may be that these others, his exes, just didn't have it at the level that she had it at. Now, to address your question, people with a personality disorder, they don't necessarily show it to the world. So they can be high functioning. They can be successful in life. They know that they can't act like animals with certain people. And so they keep their shit together at work. They keep their shit together in certain relationships. It's the people that they're closest to who see the gore and the infection that they walk around with 24-7. Now, in terms of a bait and switch, there is something to be said for that. Like when any of us start a new

relationship, we're obviously, you know, not only are we trying to show the best sides of ourselves, but what happens in that, in the honeymoon stage of relationship, which is where we're infatuated and falling in love is that our brains are, are, are producing all these neural chemicals so that, and some of them make us easier to be around, make us literally feel better than we normally feel and act more appropriately than we normally act. And some of these neurochemicals also minimize our ability to identify red flags. So this is happening in both partners in the honeymoon phase of the relationship. And that is why, you know, people in my field will say, do not commit until you've been together well beyond that honeymoon, because you do not

know somebody until you've been through the first stomach flu with them, until you've been, until you've seen them in a loss, until you've seen them be devastated. And, you know, thankfully, most of us don't experience those things inside of six or nine months consistently. So you have to put in the time and get the miles under your belt to make sure that whether it's a conscious bait and switch, or just a result of everyone being high from the beginning stages of that relationship, you need those chemicals to dissipate so that you can come back down to earth and see one another through the lens that you're going to be living with the rest of your lives. When you say commit, do you mean long-term, like moving in engagement or marriage? You're not necessarily suggesting

like defining the relationship, right? Oh, no no i'm not talking about defining the relationship i'm talking like there's a lot of people listening to be like oh great i can just no commitment yeah don't get don't get married don't get married before before you're out of that honeymoon because you don't know the person because you don't know the person and they don't know who you are because neither of you are who you really are. It's not necessarily this bait and switch that's conscious that that is manipulative. Although I will say the different personality disorders that she meets criteria for manipulation is a huge component to the borderline, a huge component. So one last question I have for you is we've been kind of talking about,

you know, up to this point that, you know, there's this evidence that, you know, Amber did this to Johnny and, you know, there's evidence that he certainly spoke to her in a very toxic way. How is someone in your field, how do you approach or diagnose when you have two people in a relationship who are being abusive to each other or just being toxic to each other? Like there seems to be a lot of finger pointing. And the substance use element. Yeah. And so like what is, how do we look at that? I think I probably inappropriately used the word co-abuse a couple weeks ago in terms of how does someone in your field, you sit down with a couple, they start talking, and

then after 15 minutes, you're thinking, you guys are terrible to each other. How do you look at that situation? Well, first of all, when you're in a situation where one or both partners are at least abusing substances, if not in a full-on addictive problem, you have to fix the addiction before you can deal with the human beings. The addiction needs to be handled first because you're not getting to the person when they're in the throes of an addiction. So first and foremost, both of them needed to be in some sort of program where they were for sure, where it was confirmed through like random drug testing that they weren't using and that they were working a program. The next thing is that both of these people seem to be incapable of taking almost any

responsibility for the problems in the relationship. You know, Johnny says, I didn't put cigarettes out on her. I just flicked a cigarette butt at her. I'm sorry. That's a distinction without a difference, in my opinion. I'm sorry, that's a distinction without a difference, in my opinion. And the idea that he thinks that that's a distinction is very, very telling to who he is as a human being. And just like how unaware he is about how he presents and how much of this is his responsibility. is his responsibility. The one of the most damning parts of having a personality disorder is that the person with a personality disorder is often so hypersensitive to any honest feedback

and critique that they like bristle under it. And so they surround themselves with yes, men and women, people who just enable them because nobody wants to deal with the nut that comes out when they set a boundary with them or when they gently suggest that something might be their responsibility. would give any therapist such a run for her money because neither one of them wants to be responsible or neither one of them wants to look in a mirror. So at the point at which the addiction were handled and being managed, then the real work starts. And that would be such a high bar for any professional because neither of those two has any inkling into how they look to the rest of the world and how they contributed to the toxicity of that relationship. I am not surprised that they were together. They were perfect for each other. In the worst possible way. Yeah, absolutely. Self-awareness is really hard to teach someone

to like, it's, it's so impossible if someone lacks self-awareness to try to instill it in them. It's. And the irony is, is that people like them would never seek out a therapist like me, because I'm known for giving honest feedback. That's my whole, that's my whole identity professionally. And so the people that come to me are the ones that are open to hearing it. They would never want somebody like me. They would go to like a traditional therapist that would validate them into like, I don't know, an emotional coma. I'm curious, like with this news, Ash, and particularly like the past week shedding light on personality disorders and other mental

health diagnoses. I think there's also been kind of a reactionary other people who have those diagnoses being worried about the way it's being portrayed in media. I'm curious if you have any insight on the way that we can approach talking about this trial and these mental health conditions and like understanding the way they factor in while also doing so in a way that gives kind of like dignity and respect to people who may have these diagnoses. I was disturbed by the doctor's minimization of Amber's suggestion that she had PTSD. Most people who have a personality disorder have trauma in their history, whether they're struggling with PTSD or not. I can't speak to that, but there is an absolute common denominator between people who are diagnosed with personality disorders, and having lived through often developmental trauma,

trauma as children that never got worked out. So it is important for all of us to remember that hurt people hurt people. Healthy people don't hurt people. And when we do hurt people, we are apologetic and empathetic and willing to, you know, willing to repair the wound that we create. So it is, you know, and I, what I read was that the doctor that evaluated her said that she doesn't believe that she has PTSD because apparently PTSD is one of, again, I may have this wrong, but I do know I read this, that PTSD is apparently an easy diagnosis to fake or the easiest diagnosis to fake. I don't know. I don't know if I buy that. I don't know if I, I mean, if Amber were as diagnostically sophisticated so as to be able to meet criteria for one thing and not really have it, I would think that she would also have the self-awareness to have not met criteria for histrionic or

borderline personality disorder, because when somebody's evaluating for that, the questions are very obvious what we're assessing for. And so I don't think that you can say, oh, I diagnosed her with this, but I don't believe that she meets criteria for that because it's very easy to fake this. I don't think that those two things go together to me. And I think it's important for everyone to remember that, again, you know, people who are wounded are the people who wind up, we're not born with personality disorders. dysfunctional environment, childhood generally. And then the person just goes through life like the rest of us do, finding people who fit into their worldview. And if your worldview is a healthier one, you're going to surround yourself with healthier people. And for people who have personality disorders, the worldview is not such a stable and secure one. And so the people they surround themselves with are going to reinforce those patterns of behavior that they learned as children. compassion is indicated with people with personality disorders, and also they need to do their own work. Do you know, and if you don't know, that's fine, but do you know why, in this case, one question I have, and I think we were discussing,

how is this not a violation of Amber Heard's HIPAA rights with her diagnosis being broadcasted across the world? I mean, I know it's in court. Do you give away that right? She had to. Yeah, no, she had to. So when you engage in a lawsuit like this, where each partner is claiming emotional damages to the other, you have to waive your rights to all sorts of things. And the doctor that diagnosed her, I believe, was either court appointed or came through. I think he hired her. It's very possible. I think he hired her.

It's very possible. And I think it's very, I think it's inexcusable that her team didn't then turn around and require him to be evaluated as well. Yeah, that's interesting to me. Yeah, why wasn't he evaluated? I mean, he should have been and should be. And here's the deal. and should be. And here's the deal. If you're in a relationship voluntarily with somebody like that, apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I mean, water seeks its own level. We attract what we are. So pointing a finger and being like, oh my God, I married crazy. Doesn't look good for you.

Yeah. I would actually love to work with either one of them um because uh i feel like a lot of people in your field would uh that's would want to because obviously there's a lot of really nice it would be a great challenge it would be a really great challenge um but it would have to be the kind of thing where it was like with any therapist, it would have, that would be an endless conflict between the therapist and somebody, you know, who struggles the way both of these two individuals clearly do. Wow. Well, Dr. Darcy, I really appreciate you joining us has been really insightful. Can you let my audience know where they can find you and follow you for more of your content? Absolutely. You can follow me at AskDrDarcy.com. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. We appreciate it and enjoy the rest of your day.

Thank you, guys. Bye. Bye. All right. A lot to unpack there. Wow. I know. What are your thoughts, Morgan? I don't know. I'm still thinking about what you asked too, like how to do, What are your thoughts, Morgan? I don't know.

I'm still thinking about what you asked too, like how to do like these, you know, people or individuals with mental health diagnoses. And I think like what's really important to remember is like Amber might be the exception, not the rule. Just because someone has a diagnosis, like someone can have, a hundred people can have the same diagnosis and in those hundred people,

it's going to manifest so differently. So I think everyone just like with any diagnosis, narcissism, schizophrenia, bipolar, no matter what it is, it's like that diagnosis isn't representative of them. There's always the exceptions to the rule. So I don't know. It's a lot. It's heavy. I think maybe also to answer your question, too, and Dr. Darcy obviously was very passionate about everyone needing therapy. You're not getting any disagreement from us.

Exactly. And it sounds like her expectation is like, listen, it's treatable, as she said. Yeah, like self-accountability. So it's kind of like, do the work. as she said. Yeah, like self-accountability. So it's kind of like, do the work. And then, again, the follow-up question is,

well, how do you know if you don't have these borderline personality disorders or if you suffer from bipolar? I guess if you went to therapy, maybe you would get diagnosed. Because I feel like a lot of people struggle with a feeling like there's something not right, you know, where they feel misunderstood or they feel confused. And maybe that's when they seek therapy.

Hopefully it's therapy through a professional they seek versus, you know, especially out here in LA, you can run into like a lot of life coaches or, you know, podcast hosts that want to diagnose you. I hate when people, like my listeners, I had one write in, she's like, yeah, we've been having couples counseling with my pastor. And I'm like, no. I understand people are super religious,

but that's not a trained professional to help you. Unless they've gone through that as well. Unless they went to proper schooling for that. As long as it was like training and not a weekend couples counseling camp. Yes. But I do, the only bone I have to pick is like access to therapy isn't easy. It's not affordable for a lot of people. It's difficult to access.

There's a big shortage of therapy providers in the US. I don't know about other countries. So it's like, especially if you're in a rural area, good luck getting a good therapist. And it's very expensive. It's so expensive. So I will just say with that, it's like, I get there's a lot of people out there that might be in the boat of like, I'm trying to get help. I'm trying to do the work, but I just can't do it. I don't have access to it. 100%. The only pushback sometimes that I would give there,

because that is true, and I think you talk about it in your podcast, we talk about it here, it's just changing the stigma around therapy because so many of us have no problem investing in gym memberships and random diets or coffee or clothes and we just don't you know we'll say oh

i i can't afford this it's just like well sometimes our ability to afford a thing has to come down to our how we prioritize yeah definitely because it seems like such an inconvenience to spend money on therapy right or it seems like it's an inconvenience to spend money on a doctor because it's like well if i were just healthy i wouldn it means to spend money on a doctor because it's like, well, if I were just healthy, I wouldn't have to spend money on this. I could spend on things I enjoy. And we just look at, you know, we work at, we look at going to the gym or, you know, taking kind of, let's say a class, a cooking class. A cooking class is an investment in ourselves because we want to learn how to cook, right? But therapy is also an investment in ourselves because we want to learn how to cook right but therapy is also an investment in ourselves even if we aren't like like i do i

started therapy i just felt like i kind of needed it things were going well now i'm like in every other week rotation i'm just i'm just tuning the piano so to speak yeah you know every once in a while i'm like fuck darling i just like I just relapsed or something like that. And that's like the analogy I think that's come up a lot. It's like you get your car regular oil changes. What do you do for yourself that's regular maintenance? Yeah. You need therapy.

So while it is expensive and not super affordable for everyone, I think there are also a large group of people who choose not to make that investment in themselves and money might be tight, but what are other areas we're spending money on? And shoot, if we're just, if our mental health isn't where it needs to be, we're just, we make, it compounds how difficult life is on us.

You know, when we feel insecure about ourselves, we project that onto everyone around us. And then we wonder why we're just having bad days or we can't get out of our own way. It's just like, well, at least for me, I've been in states of mind, whether it's because of a breakup or heartbreak, where I just made my world around me that much more miserable and darker.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think we've all been there, that self-sabotage, that, I mean, I hate the world and I'm just going to live in my misery kind of moment. So I've been there. And I think, too, therapy is hard because you don't get a tangible thing. It's not like going to the store and you walk away with a shirt it's like not this tangible thing but I think a lot of people could rebudget or allocate their money a little better because there are a lot of online services now that are very affordable uh what do we have left on this trial that we we have going on that like I guess not looking forward to

seems weird to say. No, but someone there like... Awaiting. Yeah. Anticipating. I'm anticipating Amber. When does Amber Heard take the stand? When does Paul Bettany...

I don't know if she necessarily has to. Does she? I think she can... Well, also that's my question too and maybe we need like a legal expert here. Johnny Depp is suing Amber Heard for $50 million. Again, I don't think

he cares about the money. She countersued for $100 million. I don't know if that's really about the money either. But also, what does that mean since they're both

suing each other? Is it six weeks because Johnny Depp's going to go through, like his defense is going to try Amber Heard and they get to defend their accusations?

And then we have like another three weeks of Amber Heard, her team putting, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like telling their version of the story. Like I'm really curious

about that. Well, she also, she testifies on Wednesday and also, This Wednesday? Yeah, and I think maybe it's worth noting that she fired her PR team

like days before testifying. So what's everyone doing on Wednesday? Should we get together? Yeah. Get the popcorn. Get the popcorn or drinks ready.

Yeah. I'm curious why she fired her PR team. I mean other than like obviously the press hasn't been super positive. I think she said

they weren't like painting her in a good light. They don't have much to work with. Yeah. I mean people are watching the trial. They're seeing

the testimony of her shitting on beds and pictures of Johnny Depp. of both of them leaving the courthouse and like people outside

beyond the gate and like she left and everyone started yelling like, why did you poop in the bed? Like, like all this negative stuff. And then Johnny came out later

and people were like, Johnny, Johnny. Oh no, it's like very one-sided. Also, have we seen how like Amber Heard's dressing like Johnny Depp? Yeah, the suit with the tie. Which is a part of like the diagnoses.

Is it? You emulate your partner. So there's people like comparing her style before she ever dated him and then her style when she was dating him. And she would wear all the rings, the bracelets, the hat. Like she looked like she was dating him and she would wear all the rings the bracelets the hat like she looked like she was borrowing his clothes couples do that to some degree all the time but this was intense yeah this was a lot it may be transitioning away from this trial to a different uh couple situation we have olivia oh yes wild getting served court papers while speaking

on a panel on stage and she gets served court papers was this like a TED talk type almost panel it was promoting

her new movie Harry Styles girlfriend everything comes back to Harry really when you think about it I don't know

a lot of people have attributed her marriage ending to Harry so have they yeah so maybe this is like kind of the last like fu from yeah she's promoting the movie he's in yeah do you think well that's the big question because jason's team came out and denied it yes like knowledge that that would be the way of it's like this would be this i would never i never condoned this or approve this i was unaware this would happen the way of. It's like this would be, I would never, I never condoned this or approved this. I was unaware this would happen.

The person who served papers had credentials to this event. We've all seen the movies where people who serve papers like dress up, you know, in costumes and characters. Yeah, to like, to serve someone. And so it's like a whole thing. But do we believe Jason Sudeikis? Do we believe Ted lasso would do something this is bad if it's really bad if he did that yeah that's a level of petty yeah because it's like the event that she was speaking at cinema con is it is used for it's like pitching to movie

theaters about your film like this is very much a business this is not even just like a vanity or you know or like a sweet like this is her speaking on a panel like this is very related to her livelihood and her work and so it's a really well people get served papers at work all the time so if it's yeah i i would think it'd be worse if it was like a like a public forum well i think but it was very public yeah no this is like spotlight i think too if like if the person had credentials to be there her talk couldn't have been that long what is it a 30 minute 45 minute talk you can't wait in the crowd so you don't lose her it definitely was like the person serving use some tact how much control does jason have over that

like do you say i'd like to serve this person and then it's up to the people serving it's probably at their discretion honestly yeah like did he just tell them to serve her the day before that morning was he deliberate I think that's I mean but he's saying no he's saying he didn't have anything to do with it

but that's what everyone's gonna say yeah like no it's gonna be like how do we approve it if he did this on purpose is there any like he wouldn't be like yeah i mean i did that no yeah you'd never admit he would lie right totally well because then this whole thing is about custody that's going to be brought up in court then too like oh so you want you know you know i mean it's a bad reflection on his character how does that get into him as a father that's that's a good point yeah like if he did do this on purpose that's a level of petty that your kids learning from that no also like how old are their kids do we know let's look like you're you're going to old enough research

your parents and like you're gonna google yourself and all this stuff like to see that animosity between parents is like really hard eight and five is what i'm seeing okay so they're little but they're only a few years removed from knowing that google yeah no couple years yeah that's tough that's really tough i think co-parenting is hard and like i don't understand their relationship must be super volatile if she's getting i feel like that surprised people in general even though she was served at all yeah because it's not do we just is it the ted lasso effect that you know gotten too big well no just that he plays such a lovable kind exactly it's more that it's just like do we see jason like you know when a when a movie star an actor portrays or a villain for

long periods of time there were yeah there was a character on the walking dead and i stopped watching the walking dead a long time ago but i forget the character's name but he was a bad guy and hated and he would talk about how people all the time on the street would just like say mean things to him yeah because he was such a like a cruel character on the show the opposite with ted lasso it's just like here's this like incredibly empathetic character he plays who always looks the other way and sees the good in people and see the goods and good and things a character who got divorced on the show and had his heart broken like he kind of so then it's like always is he playing himself yeah yeah he's also like from snl so people have so much nostalgia with that show

and so it's like he just has this like really kind dad at a barbecue who was like no it's not too late for me to get you a burger like and fires back up the grill like it's so we have this like very intense perception of him, and then you have no idea what's happening behind closed doors. I think it's maybe just shocking because the last, I mean, from what I've heard, they issued statements like, we just fell out of love, we're really great friends still. Those are always bullshit. Always bullshit.

But this also was around the time, like, I don't even think they had announced their divorce yet. And she was going to like a wedding with Harry and people were like, wait, is she cheating? No, they're just saying they're friends. It's very apparent things have developed further now. But like, I don't know. of things there's a source that has said I mean again it's an unnamed source so how would we hold them accountable but the source who's a person familiar with the situation said that Sudeikis did not know when or where the papers would be delivered to her which is totally believable yeah why did it get to this level i don't know if like you could have waited till afterwards so like someone who was savvy enough to get the credentials yeah like i don't care who you hire right you they have a track record references etc etc and if you're jason sudeikis big time movie star you're gonna cover your bases yes you have a team the only thing i will say to that is sometimes in the public eye i will say

with people who have teams people will say things like why didn't they do the due diligence why didn't they do the background check etc etc and the truth is people are lazy or, or their teams don't have as much follow through. Or they work for an established company and you would think they'd insure all of their employees. But part of me wants to say, if Jason Siddique has hired this person, like, didn't this person have a reputation of, of, of like, you know, you have to hire someone who can get to a Olivia wild, which is an incredibly, which is an incredible challenge. And I think,

I believe that the person was in the audience. So they had to approach the stage. So it's not like they had like backstage access and could have given it to her. So they signed up for this. So they had to be incredibly like accepted it though. Like if someone walked, she thought it was a script. She thought it was like script. She thought it was

like a hopeful like that's how I got my first internship in Hollywood was like a late night host came to my school

and I like walked up to the stage and gave them my resume. And I gave them divorce. I said give me custody. If you're Jason Sudeikis and you're hiring someone to serve your wife

court papers and she is dating she is a celebrity a big time celebrity herself, who's dating a bigger celebrity. You have to get her security. How do you physically hand that to someone? Wouldn't you be curious to say like, how do you plan on going about serving these papers

to my very like unaccessible ex-partner? Yeah. I don't think they were married. Oh, they weren't? I believe they were, I don't believe they were married. I could be wrong. Yeah. Um,

I just think so. I would beg the question as to why. And, and that makes it kind of hard to believe that he didn't, he might not have known. But also like, I'm 50, 50.

I know, but I'm like, he's got money. He's got the money to pay for the person that can get to her. Like if this were me, I want to stay out of the spotlight even now. Like I'm like, yeah, I have a podcast, but like I kind of still fly under the radar where I don't get recognized in person. I'm like, I like this. This is good. So if I was in their shoes, I'd be ultra concerned with my image, what gets out,

what gets out about my family, keeping my kids safe in the future, all of this. I'd pay the extra money to make sure this is served discreetly. I would never have even let it get to this point. So it's like... So what do you believe? I don't know. I think, honestly, I think this might have been a little malicious. And he can play it off. I had no idea when they were going to serve it. I just paid this service and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you still, you could have ensured it didn't happen like this. You could have ensured and said, I want it as discreet as possible.

You can't tell me she doesn't have an assistant or a PR person. Like, you could go to their team and be like, hey, you know what? We want to prevent this from being messy. Let's handle it like this. Well, that's another thing. You don't always have to blindside someone. You can say, hey, listen, this is happening. Let's arrange a time where we can serve you.

Yeah. Or are you going to make us chase like Carmen Sandiego it and chase you around the world? You know, like, because that's only happens when you try to avoid being served papers. But if you're going through a custody battle is like. She probably knew this was coming. Right. So why even chance this. Why not arrange it.

Yeah. Yeah. Behind closed doors. Yeah. That's a good question. I saw a video and it was like just her dancing at Coachella like or her dancing at one of his other shows. And people are like oh Olive.

Olive needs to like F off. Like Olive doesn't deserve. They call her Olive. Oh. cello like or her dancing at one of his other shows and people are like oh olive olive needs to like f off like olive doesn't deserve they call her olive oh harry styles fan base doesn't like olivia wilde his fan base hates her like death threats because they want to get with him yeah that's not okay did you ever experience that where like even your girlfriend now it's like no no not really i can. I can't even imagine. Not on any noticeable level. I'm sure it might exist. But for the most part, everyone's quite...

Supportive. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. I mean, not everyone. Yeah. I mean... For the most part, from what you see.

Yeah. I think there's always a couple people who are critical. I don't know. It sucks. I think there's always a couple people who are critical. I don't know. It sucks. I feel bad. She can't even dance at his shows without people taking videos of her and just ruthlessly tearing her apart online. Like critiquing her dancing? Yeah. And she's just sitting there like just trying to enjoy her boyfriend's show and can't live her life. Can't live her life. It is so interesting, though, because it's like, I mean, the Jonas Brothers all have wives now.

Yeah. And they're all in the audience dancing. And I feel like people, it's a positive thing. Everyone's like, oh, my gosh, such supportive wives. Do you think it's because, like, they're the Jonas sisters? Yeah. Why do you think that is? It's because, like, it's a collection of. Brothers.

I also just think they're a little earlier. Like, I think the Jonas Brothers were, like, slightly before. So I think as a whole, like, the fans matured. I also think, like, the culture around One Direction, like, I think that was, like, in a lot of ways, like, one of the most, not maybe original, but, like, when we talk about stans, like, I think One Direction, like, they had this, like, chokehold on, like, the teen Tumblr girls of America. Teen Tumblr girls. Like, they really did. And so I think it makes sense that they would have this like

very possessive approach. Well, even Harry Styles came out and said something about he had like this kind of challenging relationship with sex as it relates to like his private life and how he... Because there was a clause in his contract

about him sort of like respectability. So like behaving in any way inappropriately with his like One Direction contract. And him sort of like respectability so like behaving in any way inappropriately with his like one direction contract and so that was that's so vague yeah and i think it's probably like very subject to interpretation and like control by can you imagine your label saying you can't have sex or your job like you can't or just like can't talk about it or meanwhile nick is please, give me the details. What's the tea? I would never ask Harry about his sex life.

No, we're not going to interview Harry. He's going to help us answer relationship questions. Six months. Don't worry, Harry. Don't worry. Yeah, Harry, it's a safe. You can keep it in. It's a safe environment.

Do we want to talk any Selling Sunset? You've been watching. I have been watching. We have Mary tomorrow. Oh my gosh. Update. We have Mary tomorrow, guys. I know we moved some things around the schedule to accommodate Mary.

Yeah, we got to. So we got her. Yeah, this season, it's... So I started one through five. And then I was like, okay, I'm getting really tired of the Christine is a victim show. And so I skipped to the last episode. And I was just like, let's see if anything changes. Literally picked up right where I left off on episode five to ten.

Christine sitting there. Poor me. Woe is me. And I'm like, aren't you tired? Yeah. Aren't you tired? I was watching it this weekend. You have always been a big fan of christine

yeah christine then i go back she makes the show dramatic but like i guess i'm just yeah i am i am without christine i genuinely and the thing is like i feel like i've kind of going through an identity crisis because i see what you're seeing now but with still without christine i'm not sure what we would be talking about because she's filled every season more of the houses more more I guess I'm more where they go on a personal level I'm just more like does she enjoy it it's it seems like almost hard to watch sometimes it is I think Christine definitely I mean she talks about it on season one where she was like, I was the ugly duckling. No one thought I was hot.

And now here I am. Because she talked about it. She showed a guy she knew from high school or something. He came to look at a house. And he like asked her out or whatever that was. And then they went to Ocean Prime. Yeah. I know.

All the restaurants this season. I'm like, Beauty in Essex? Really? I know. I'm like, okay. Okay. But I think. Beauty in Essex. Yeah. They the restaurants this season, I'm like, beauty in Essex? Really? I know. I'm like, okay. Okay. But I think. Beauty in Essex.

Yeah. They went there this season. This sucks. The choices. But I just think she's someone who, I don't know if it's maybe, I don't know. I'm not a psychologist diagnosing her, but I definitely think she is a deeply, deeply insecure person, whether that's from her past living in la is hard there's always these beauty standards and whatever but christine to me is deeply insecure

and that is just sabotaging everything here's what i tried i didn't understand because at first i was watching it and i got in my head about like well well, you know, like Chris, cause Christine's always like, I'm just being honest. You know, like there's that version of, she'll say like offensive or off putting things to these people. And you know, I'm, I, I appreciate people who are honest. Right. I always say if everyone likes you, then you're not your most honest self, like in public, if you're a people pleaser, then like, and everyone thinks you, then you're not your most honest self, like in public. If you're a people pleaser, then like, and everyone thinks you're the greatest. And like you, like no one really knows who you are. I do believe that. And so at first I'm thinking, you know, Christine's the same things people will want to hear, but it's the truth. And that's what Christine says. But

then after watching it a while, I'm thinking, yeah, that's just kind of a bullshit excuse for someone who's like not interested in being a friend like you know like at some point you know these some of these people were friends with her right and then she kind of just like you said things that as a friend hurt my feelings truth or not it's just like you chose not to like support me or you choose to scratch an itch or an insecurity that you knew I might have and call it what you want. But like you're just not being an empathetic friend. To me, that's what Christine is really guilty of. Like I think it's kind of bullshit that she is saying things and calling it like just the truth, which that might be true.

But you're still alienating people that you once or still call friends and that just seems like don't you want to don't you want to have a friend some friend a friend a friend like i'm fine with not having a bunch of like bullshit friends no but and having your close group of friends but she seems to be struggling in that area but the thing is i feel like the the main difference of Christine season one and the Christine we've seen in season five is she's always said she calls it like it is. She's honest. She did that in season one. If you think back to like the finale of season one, when she and Chris shell got into like a really heated argument, she was calling her out for lying. She did it in a very like

dramatic way, but I could see where she was coming from. She was chrishell accountable she went too far by saying like do you remember you do still have like effing dementia like like she was really like strong in the way she did it but she was holding her to what she'd previously said and now you see scenes of her like i think it was maybe when she was sitting with heather and heather was like you've said terrible things about all these girls and she's like no i haven't i've said nothing she's like jokes it's a joke they're like whatever and she's like you're right i did say that that's fucking hilarious but i'm like but it's a horrible practical joke it's not like calling it like it is now it's like a weird there are questions i don't even believe that she thinks it's all that funny i think that's just um again not psychoanalyzing her yeah i think it's

Again, not psychoanalyzing her. Yeah, I think it's... There's no accountability at all. It's a tough watch. The text message with like Amanza. And Amanza was like calling her out. And Amanza was like, hey, yeah, it's awkward. I'm not making eye contact with you even at your broker or your... Broker's open.

Broker's open. And she was like, you told me to stay out of your business. And she was like, no, I didn't. And she's like, pull up the text. She's like, read the text. And Amanza reads it and it's word for word. Stay out of my business. But then like no i didn't and she's like pull up the text she's like read the text and amanda reads it and it's word for word stay out of my business but then christine was like but keep going keep reading we didn't say that was the only thing that was said that's where i'm like again i'm having an identity crisis stay out of your business because i was christine

christine was mom to me and now i feel like i've been abandoned on the sidewalk yeah well i also feel like it's very easy to justify her behavior because she was kind of carrying the show on her back in terms of creating drama. And so I think it's probably very easy for her to be like, to kind of like justify it by being like, well, I'm giving them a show. Like as much as people can like talk shit about me. Everyone hates the villain. Yeah.

Well, there is truth to that. You know, like every time we recap the bachelor or other reality tv shows like as fans we watch it and when we're watching reality tv it's like how could they are oh my god i can't believe it and it's like this is a tv show still and this is not a like this is not the truman show we're just walking around following people and getting unedited, uncut versions without soundtracks. It's not a documentary. Yeah. And people play into their characters.

People on The Bachelor who have seen the show and they think they know how it works and they've been fans their whole life walk. Some people walk into that house and they're're playing a role they're not they're not their authentic self they're full of shit and other people are more authentic so it's like how do you criticize you know like she's still worthy of criticism christine but is she maybe you know people always say producers and does she have her producers who are like, you're, you're the star. You are funny. This is amazing. Ha ha ha ha ha. Or, or is, or is it really just a sad person who, who wants a hug and, and doesn't know how to ask for it? I'm going to go towards that because I think to act like

one way on the show, okay, that's fine. It's reality TV. Producers want to make this the storyline for the season. Sure, let's go for it. Christine's the villain. It's carrying the team. But when it starts bleeding into she's going to TMZ saying, I don't care about this wedding or going on people's podcasts, talking mad shit about other people on the show. It's like, this isn't just a show. Like you genuinely are sabotaging your relationships with these people. Yeah, she does. Yeah. Which is different than other people. Other people will go on the show and be like, oh, we're just best friends in real life. What do we believe? It's all fake. Yeah. You know who I really want on this show chelsea can we find out if she's

actually british because rumors are going around that she's not actually you think it's oh i dm'd her and asked her to come on can you send your birth certificate in order to people think it's a fake british accent yeah because she dips in and out of it in certain scenes which like we all adapt like even if you if you hear like megan markle after she had been living in the uk for some time you adapt where you are very quickly you hear me like two wines deep at a bar talking to a british man like you know i'm putting on an accent by accident i have a drunk british alter ego i feel you take me to the south i'll be throwing out y'alls in about 12 minutes you know also she has two nigerian parents who immigrated to the uk it's like, if that's the home you're growing up in,

your accent's going to be a little different. But I have seen a lot of tweets where people are like, I'm British and I do not recognize this. I bet she's. I mean, I've known of her existence for like a week, so I don't know her that well. But I really enjoy watching her. And she seems to be like, she's newer

to the show. So I feel like we get a fresh perspective of her point of view on the situations. I know. Do we think Vanessa's leaving? I feel like Vanessa might be leaving. Yeah, she was very non-existent. Yeah,

showed her going off on a little plane. She's not selling off houses. And she has the long distance voice. Well, now they're engaged. They got engaged, which we didn't see on the show, but in real life, they're now engaged. Oh, thank God. That promise ring was sad. Do we think that they were... They do fake phone calls

on this show. Didn't you see... Okay, here's my other thing. He did an interview, though, and he was like, I've tested it, and I can have my camera on my phone. I think he's full of shit. Emma doesn't even have the wi-fi password for the office did you see the picture of her computer screen it's it's prompting her for the wi-fi password really yeah oh my god i think it's i think it's both i i haven't seen every season of selling sunset but i do remember watching the first season and i remember there was a scene of one of the brothers on the phone and as someone who's been on reality TV a handful of times, I just thought, I just remember thinking

to myself, this is the most fake phone call of all fake phone calls. And my response to that is whatever. Again, it's a TV show. I don't expect that they are like, if I'm, think about it. If I'm buying a house, I don't want you on, like, I don't want you they are like if i'm think about it if i'm buying a house i don't want you on like i don't want you recording our phone half of our phone conversation like i don't want any part of that i totally understand that they have fake phone conversations yeah so like i and then i saw his interview i wish he would just kind of like not answered the question be like oh you know like but he really doubled down no he doubled down he's like i tested it yeah i know it was a real phone call and recently i tested it to see

if i could have my camera and do a phone at the same time and you can no i don't i don't believe him for a second i'm like where's my phone let's try try it i i bet he tested it i don't think he's the type of person who would put that out there without testing it because you would have heard about it. Hold on. It's a very stupid lie because we're all about to... Hold on. You're calling me right now.

I'm calling Nick and then I'm going to open my camera. I mean, you can do other things on the phone. I know. I'm sure it's not that hard to believe. Is the phone call still going on? Yeah. Okay. You can't record voice memos when you're on the phone.

And you can't turn on your flashlight if your camera app is open. Correct. There's a weird little thing. But also, why is he taking, I mean, maybe, oh, he could have been taking photos of the property and then got a phone call. Or just like your cheek hit it. Oh, he was at the office. Maybe he was taking photos of Chris Schell. The head rubbing.

Oh, my God. I think that's one thing that I could have done without. What do you think of the brothers? Oh my God, I think that's one thing that I could have done without. What do you think of the brothers? I think they both, I don't know that much about the other one because he seems just very insecure and wants to like, let's talk about me and my relationship. Brett? Yeah, but like, so Jason.

He's like the shorter of the short brothers? No. I don't know. Brett was always, I don't know. I don't know a lot about. Brett was even more of a bachelor, but Brett was dating, I think they may be broken up, but I forget her name, but she got very close with all the girls despite not being an agent yeah and they were together for a while okay because she went to europe with them yeah although i did agree with the one brother when it was uh when him and chris shell were not that because i am like what the fuck do i know about real estate but he wanted 10-6 that was brett or he didn't want to give concessions like

you have a second buyer with a higher offer. Like, that's just, like, standard. You definitely don't concede. I was like, Rochelle. Especially in LA's real, like, real estate market, people drop everything. Like, every contingency you can drop, people drop out here. Yeah. Like, I've dropped contingencies

and you still don't get the house. And so it's like, what are you doing? I don't get the house and so it's like what what are you doing yeah i didn't i didn't i don't i don't understand chrishell there but impressed she could fit through the doggy door that thing was tiny that was that was a yeah she's also small though she even in person is like a very small person tiny and what's crazy is she makes him look big that's true like her head in comparison to his when they're sitting at the table i'm like she's tiny but like she makes him look big you can be uh shorter and have a big head i know but like he's really little he's like a very buff mr clean like kind of scaled

to short king size yeah short king spring i will admit one thing i do really like about him though is he doesn't come across as being insecure about his height or any of that like toxic side that you can see from people that are that have insecurities i mean as bosses they seem hard but like fair communicate very well let hear you. Let me hear you out. Blah, blah, blah. But I think there was like one scene where Chrishell was wearing heels and he's like looking up at her.

And he's like, he's like very tall today. I like it. And I'm like, I love this. Yeah. Yeah. They're very selfish,

arid, and confident. Yeah. They just. Short kings. They just like to, they're self-identified bachelors. Morgan, you've been very delightful. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming on. Where can people find you? I know I went on your podcast. You did go on my podcast. Two Hot Takes. So by the time yours comes out, that one will be out so people can watch you on mine. It's Two Hot Takes, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, everything. You have a very soothing voice.

That's the first thing I noticed. Yeah. But it's a great show. I had a ton of fun on it. I know. Your takes were really good. Thank you. Yeah, you did good.

And where else can they follow you? My personal is Morgan Absher. How do you spell it? A-B-S-H-E-R. Great. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in your questions for Ask Nick on Mondays or your mediation calls we have Mary Fitzgerald

from Selling Sunset tomorrow on Going Deeper I think we're going to try our new office hours text if it all works out and it's going to be a ton of fun so we'll see you tomorrow Morgan thank you so much bye Morgan, thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Hey, guys, thanks for watching. But before you go, make sure you like, subscribe and ring that bell so you don't miss any future videos like our monday's ask nick especially if you're looking for some relationship stories and relationship advice as well as our wednesday interviews with your favorite celebrities and experts see you next time