The Viall Files - E42 Leading With Our Flaws with Dean Unglert

Episode Date: September 11, 2019

Dean Unglert of The Bachelor drives his van to the studio to get deep with Nick! He talks about getting ahead of criticism, he explains why he went back to the beach for Caelynn, and he explores the root of his alternate lifestyle choices.  Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode! Donate or get tickets to Nick’s campaign for cystic fibrosis: https://finest.cff.org/walkthepurplecarpet/nickviall THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: NOOM: https://www.noom.com/viall RAYCON: http://buyraycon.com/viall ARTICLE: http://article.com/nick See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is up everybody welcome to another episode of vile files very exciting episode today, I think at least for Rochelle And hopefully the people listening at home Dean Unglert is our guest today. My dear friend, Dean. He's so nice. He's a lovely human being. Rochelle has been asking for this episode since the moment I met her. But very casually, right?

Very casually. She's like, hi, Nick. I'm going to be your producer. Also, I have a couple of good ideas of who you should have for guests. My top three are Dean and then every week I had to be like, I mean, sure,

it'll eventually happen but like that's low-hanging fruit. I mean, for me in the sense that like he's my friend and I can always like have him on and like, so anyways, but I wanted to write

for the right time and I think this is a great time. Obviously with his time on Paradise and I, you know, I think hopefully people will will enjoy it it seems like he's really been through like a personal journey too in the past since you've met him yeah dean's a really uh authentic guy and i think he has the self-awareness as we get into a little bit about taking a you know a unique approach and an authentic approach to this television world and being willing to open himself up for criticism.

And so we talk about that with Dean, a little bit about his life and his thoughts on the world, the show, his relationship with Kaylin. Yeah. You guys have a really nice friendship. Yeah, I think there's a lot of mutual respect between Dean and I. I think Dean and I have a lot of similarities and i think there's a lot of mutual respect between dean and i i think dean and i have a lot of similarities and i think we have a lot of

differences and and uh kind of like you hope to with uh someone you're in a romantic relationship with you know even with friends it's nice to have friends who you relate to and have a lot of similar interests but also they're good at things that you're not. And you both kind of help each other, uh, experience life in a, in a different way. Having friends like that, help you help you get out of your own comfort zone.

I know. I, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a creature of habit. Yeah. He invited you to Egypt.

Dean has invited me. And you said, no, he said, can you go to Egypt next week? It's like, no, I can't. Rochelle also has some opinions on Bachelor in Paradise,

which we will get into right after we share some great information with you. Well, Rochelle. Yeah. What did you think of these two episodes? Honestly? I know you were bored right you know

it's it's kind of the same way in Bachelor Bachelorette this is the part of the season it's like alright who's in love right

who's really who's here for the right reasons and I find that to be sometimes both boring and at times disingenuous

I don't know not for everyone who do you think's being disingenuous? Not necessarily, I don't know. It's just. Tell. No,

I don't necessarily, it's just, I don't know. I wasn't, you know. Yeah. What'd you think of the JPJ, Tayshia breakup?

I find that whole relationship somewhat confusing. As we always say, the show's never really over till it's over and i know there's going to be a special and we'll kind of reconnect with who where's everyone now so who knows first she broke up with derrick like the whole taisha just in fairness to taisha she seems to be on a different maturity level than jp day right i agree with that but for some reason this breakup i cried the most i've ever cried watching the bachelor isn't that bizarre i don't know if i was just in a weird place but i was like

really crying i didn't but i mean i don't want to say it's bizarre it touched a nerve yeah i don't know he just the way he handled it i thought was he handled it pretty great where he was just like okay thank you and like walked away. I don't know JPJ. He's been loved and he's gotten some criticism. Right. And rightfully so. But I don't like, I don't think he's a bad guy. And he's just a really young, earnest person

who truly I think is intoxicated by Tayshia. Right. You know, and he feels these feelings of love and there's definitely a power dynamic that's all on Tayshia. Right. And so it's like, I don't know if that's a real relationship,

but who knows, maybe outside of the real world, they'll reconnect. I don't know, but it was a cute, and that's, to your point, I guess it's endearing to see

the young puppy dog love. You've seen that with JPJ and Dylan this season where it's, to your point, I guess it's endearing to see the young puppy dog love. You've seen that with JPJ and Dylan this season where it's just, you know, like some people can call it an obsession. Some people could just say like, it's an exciting feeling to feel these incredible feelings for someone you've never felt. To really feel like, how did I get this person?

It's an exciting feeling. Also heartbreaking when you realize you didn't actually. Oh, really? I don't know. Oh, really? I don't know. Oh, okay. Well, right? They broke up. And so, such a power dynamic.

I mean, Tayshia has all the power. Yeah. And that's not- He really laid it out there. Want to get married. Yeah. It's not a relationship. Yeah.

Right? Don't you think? Yeah, you're right. Tayshia's 29 now? 28? I don't know. He's 24. That's a pretty significant gap. gap well and she's been married and

yeah she's got a lot more life uh perspective and i think jpj does so uh i think it's just hard to to it's not an even playing field what do you think of demi's like confronting christian about touching the other women um i think it's a, I don't know. Like, again, for me, it's just like, okay, now we're kind of, we're like, it was all the drama, who is dating who, and now we're kind of getting back to the couples, right? A lot of like, hey, remember us, we're still dating and addressing any issues they may or may not have. and addressing any issues they may or may not have.

Again, everyone knows how I feel about the Demi and Christian situation and relationship, and I'm glad they continue to show this relationship as just like any other relationship. And to me, that's all I really care about is in regards to this relationship is normalizing that relationship. And so I liked that. That's really my only two cents on that.

Yeah. Cool. Any other real drama about the show? I mean, we have the Dean and, and Kalen. I just thought it was so funny that Connor was like, said that Kalen interrupted him talking with Whitney at the wedding.

Like he was upset about that. I mean, again, I think it's, Connor is also young and I think it's easy to make the mistake of coming across as kind of somewhat hypocritical in that world. Right, right. I don't, again, I'm sure Connor has the best intentions. And it's just, you know, you're easily influenced by your insecurities in that world. Yeah. And I think you're probably seeing a lot of that with, that's what you saw with JPJ and Derek.

And you probably see that with Connor's what you saw with jpj and derrick and you probably see that with connor and and dean yeah and the reality is is that uh dean and and derrick are both uh older and and more mature than connor and jpj and that has nothing like that's not a criticism that's just a reality of their age and they also have the experience in that world so they're more mature and there's a lot of uh it's intimidating, I think. And I think you see that being projected in some of the shade that's being thrown by Connor and JPJ. Right. You and Colton hung out this week, huh?

Well, I did see Colton. Colton was awarded the Grace Rose Award for his work in the cystic fibrosis. I've realized over the weekend that cystic fibrosis is hard to say. I had to say it a bunch of times.

It's not the cutest. I had the pleasure of introducing Colton as he accepted this award. It was a great event. You know, through you and your sister

and Colton, I've become more and more familiar with obviously the cystic fibrosis community and the challenges that people face. And again, they talked a lot about what I became aware of on this, not only is the disease itself an issue, but just the mental health aspect that plays a role, not only to the person diagnosed with the disease, but the family. I mean, in essence, you're basically given a death sentence early

in someone's life. And then, you know, a death sentence and knowing that it's going to be shorter than you had hoped or expected your life to be. And then it's just like, when is this day going to come? You're kind of trying to constantly extend that. And as a young person, knowing that your life will be shortened um

i truly can't imagine and so the anxiety and depression and mental challenges that come with that is uh eye-opening and so like i have anxiety all the time like that i'm not spending time with her because i'm like i don't know how long she's gonna have but mean, at the same time, any of us, you know, but like, she is a doctor, so she doesn't have any time. And then I get mad at my mom. I mean, it's just like, it's a nightmare. It can be tough. So again, Grace, Rose, Colton, a lot of people are trying to do great things in this very unfortunate world of cystic fibrosis and without, honestly, money, and they talked a lot about that over the weekend, they've done a lot of research and some amazing things

through cystic fibrosis, with cystic fibrosis and the research they've done, and they can't do it without people's contributions. So, if you are willing and have a dollar or more to spare, we will put a link on our page uh our page yeah where you can find us for uh la's finest walk the purple carpet and you can buy tickets actually and hang out um i'll be there nick will be there he's nominated it's friday november 8th and the ticket money goes to help um with research we're still far away from reaching our goal. Yeah. We're at $500. Our goal was 5,000.

We're at 500? Yeah. Come on, people. I mean, trust me, if everyone who's listening donated $1, we would,

yeah, we would, we would. Bar exceed. So if you could, that'd be great. It would, $1,

there's a link in our bio. And we'll even put on our Instagram. So go check it out. It would, $1, there's a link in our bio and we'll even put it on our Instagram. So go check it out. It's really simple. And I really appreciate it. People like Rochelle's sister and Grace Rose and all the thousands of young kids and people suffering from this disease,

I'm sure would appreciate longer lives. With that said, Dean, I'm sure would appreciate longer lives. Yeah. With that said, Dean Uglert. Dean Uglert. Uglert? Uglert. Uglert. It's a tough one. How are you, my friend?

Have we started? Yeah, now we're starting. Is there like a lead-in song or anything? There will be, yeah. Cool. But we're going to do an intro, and depending on how well this goes, we will talk about that to say, well, maybe you should tune in, maybe not. Or this is going to be a really good episode.

How do you not know his last name? I just, no, I do. Oh. But I just kind of mumbled as I sometimes do with words. And then, ungler. Ungler. Dean Ungler, thanks for coming, buddy. Thanks for having me.

So nice to have you. It's great to be here. I think you're, Dean's are my fourth Male guest Fourth or fifth You had Brad You've had Tyler You've had

Straight male though Chris Harrison Chris Harrison Chris Harrison I'm not keeping track Or anything but yeah Oh no Dean's dad All I know

All I know is I'm not the first You You are not Well you also have A competing podcast You want to plug it quick uh yes if you're listening to this and you need some dating advice be sure to tune in to help i suck at dating on

iheart radio or wherever you subscribe to podcasts and then come back here for the right answer oh i'm just kidding um dean uh it has become a very close friend of mine i really quite enjoy dean you know with people we always get asked about who we're friends with in bachelor nation and i always kind of tell people it's it's like working at any company there's some people uh you like and seem fine their acquaintances there's some people you grow really close with and there's some people you choose to avoid and dean is someone who i've i've grown to quite love and care for. Thanks, man.

You're an interesting person and you're a free spirit. And I feel like you and I relate to each other in terms of you seem to have this thing inside you that kind of wants to go against the grain as much as possible. And I appreciate that about you. And you're also very smart. Wow. So I look forward to getting into it with you.

I'm looking forward to it as well. Just to kick things off. Can we go back? So formal. Can we go back and redo that? Because I said that weird. No, but you're right. And I do feel like generally speaking, I'm a smart guy.

It's hard to hang out with you because I often feel like my intelligence is dwarfed by you. And you say these big words I don't understand. And I just pretend like I know what you're talking about. So if you ever see me, just kind of like eyes glazed over and you think that, just carry on and I'll try and figure out what context this is. But you know what the trick is, Dean? I just sometimes use big words that I've heard before. And I'm banking on the fact that a lot of people around me won't know what they mean and it'll just sound smart yeah well nick i'll tell you this right now it's working you're a really smart guy you're you're um and you have a lot of uh

you're you're very self-aware and i think that's I think more than anything, that's what I appreciate about you. I think especially in both, I guess, this, our society in general, it's harder and harder to find. I think LA, it's even harder. And I think sometimes in bachelor world, self-awareness can be lacking for some of the other obstacles and pressures that people face. And I think you've always been really good at that and really honest about your flaws. You seem to be, you know, when I talk to you, the first to admit about something you're not good at. I think we saw a lot of that this season, which I really appreciated.

Thanks. I think it was kind of one thing that took a while for me to grow into. And I was actually thinking about this just yesterday a little bit about how I think bachelor specifically kind of lack self-awareness to individuals in it. And I was thinking about why, why that is and why people are like that. And I was like trying to reverse engineer it. And I go back to the idea that,

you know, everyone that goes onto the show initially is, is just like a regular, decent looking human being who has a good job somewhere in probably like Los Angeles, Dallas, Chicago, New York, wherever it is. And you come off the show and you have all of this attention and you're letting people like inflate your ego so much to where you start believing into the things that the hype that people are saying about you. You have too much access to other people's opinions that you don't know right and i think that so many people fall prey to that and they start to believe the own hype that other people are saying about and then

you all and then we kind of all start there's a it's like high school and we all start there we're competing especially now with social media you see that with you know there's um and we've all kind of gotten caught in the middle of it and sometimes we're we we take jabs at each other and then we're just like we we kind of regret doing that yeah and it's and then we get told a lot of people will come up and they'll feed us information and we kind of believe that our own bullshit sometimes um it can get tough so so then for me the interesting thing was coming off the batch at the first time i was like super hyped up everyone just loved me and like and like all my friends i even had like an ex-girlfriend reach out and she goes dude it's

so hard seeing all this hype around you because like you're not that cool and i'm like i know i don't understand it either and then honestly honestly one of the best things that happened to me was like the whole paradise um is this a family podcast you can swear yeah the fuck the fuck boy uh thing that uh i underwent during bachelor in paradise honestly was one of the better things that could have happened to me because uh if there was a spectrum of fuck boy if there's a spectrum of bachelor in paradise dean to bachelorette dean i would fall closer to the bachelor in paradise dean just as a regular person so like that was a more closely uh accurate depiction of who i am than bachelorette who like did you make you feel safer to like just kind of be out in the world yes one thousand percent when bachelor was airing and and uh all of the hype was

building i was like almost scared to leave my house to a degree because i was like i'm not this person i'm not this like angelic choir boy who like wants to marry right now and have like i i you know i can want those things but i'm not that's that's not who i am yeah and that's not to say that you again the the show can put will silo you especially in the bachelor bachelor and then you just become this one thing right and you feel that pressure i saw tyler recently and we were we're talking tyler c everyone and i was joking with him and he kind of made a comment about recently he's gotten just slight slight heat in the press because it was like he couldn't possibly live up and we've joked on this podcast about tyler c is great but also

just a guy and i don't know everything about tyler but i'm willing to bet like you like me like all of us he's a guy with uh attractive qualities and unattractive qualities and he's done things to be praised for and he's done things i'm sure to be criticized for and sometimes when you get all that love and adoration it can be very challenging to like what if people realize i've like was rude to someone you know something so trivial it can be challenging well then so to tie it back into the to the self-awareness thing is once you see like the people build you up for something that you maybe don't necessarily see in yourself then you just start to like self-deprecate and you're like this is who i am and you're either

gonna like me for this or you're not gonna like me at all and if you like me great if you don't like me that's fine too but i'm not gonna like pretend to be something that i'm not and i think that's kind of where because this whole self-awareness thing in my opinion for my for me has only really happened over the past like year and a half maybe a little bit less yeah i mean i how long have i known you a year and a half two years that's it yeah yeah um so yeah i guess to that point i haven't i've only known you for a short long and i've kind of it was after obviously the bachelorette and yeah right before you went on paradise but um i appreciate you've done that and you know i i've i can relate to what you're saying but it's the opposite i i was on the

opposite side where i got all the criticism and and that sucked but it was way it was almost better coming up and that gave me a lot of perspective because for all the people who are losing their shit about just a tiny bit of criticism i was like that's nothing man you know and i you still see it where everyone's very defensive over a little a little bit of stuff and i still get defensive but you see that people just freaking out over nothing and then you you look at you know like you know uh luke s had a a tough week so to speak you know like i i felt bad you know it was a it was a it was a it was a tough couple episodes and probably didn't undeserved but like most of the people who go through that show who get bent out of shape for something don't have to deal with that type of kind of um portrayal

what do you mean exactly? Well, I mean, like not getting a rose and like, you know, it was kind of an unnecessary poke at Lucas. Not getting the rose? Well, he was giving out the rose. He was giving out a rose and no one wanted it. You've never seen that before. It was, ugh.

Well, you can kind of commend Bree for at least declining to accept the rose from him, though, could you not? No, listen, all I'm saying is, he really got punched in the gut. And that sucks, but other people who like, will sometimes say or do something that they said or did, and they don't necessarily like how it got, how it came across, will freak out,

and it's nothing compared to say like that situation right i agree with what you're saying and i what i've noticed too is and what i've kind of become a big advocate of is like owning your convictions and if you kind of put those out there before anyone else can then you're like taking ownership of those things and accountability for those things and so like whenever anyone else then drags you for that yeah you're just like laughing at yourself and you're laughing at them do it like it's just a group laughing at the situation rather than like taking the burden on yourself it's like eminem and eight mile yeah you know i am white i do have a friend named cheddar bomb who shot himself in the leg yeah right so when you say like owning up to your conviction i mean

can you elaborate more on that i mean obviously just beating people to punch but like what are the things that you going in this time do you have conviction about that you felt i'm just going to put this on the table um i other than just wearing scrubs down to the beach which i really really liked it really set the tone for honestly i don't care i'm gonna get into i'll get into it a little bit and i'll try my best to explain it so my experience i've both of us have been on this show quite a number of times i think we equal each other's account at four four um do that let the record record show with that though funny enough is i've been in more relationships from the bachelor franchise than you have also

true right um in my experience i have because i've avoided them more than like i was you have you you very actively avoid them which is probably for the best i'm saying that with a sensitive uh heart for because i i get sensitive of the uh i got dumped and you know but anyway you're in a precarious situation just because yeah you got dumped twice and then you were the bachelor it's like you don't really want you can't really date in the franchise after being the bachelor you can't like getting dumped twice was like i took second twice in two seasons and somehow that became the yeah it's actually a good thing everybody i'm not saying it's good but like everyone else got dumped too man but anyways continue that season where Nick got dumped. Yeah, well, 28 other guys did too.

What I've noticed is, in this franchise especially, and it's funny, it goes back to our earlier conversation about self-awareness, is there is a heavy saturation of misrepresentation of self. And so people will like, on the show, you can say all these things about who you are and what you do and what you believe and what you want to do and like all your plans, all your goals. But it's easy to say that within that bubble because there's no way to like necessarily fact check the things people are saying about themselves. And then you get out of that and you realize those things don't necessarily align with what they're saying. And so coming into Bachelor in Paradise season six for the second time in Paradise, fourth in total i was like i'm just gonna absolutely

undersell the shit out of myself i'm gonna say you know i'm unemployed i'm homeless i have this ridiculous mustache i'm basically wearing clothes that i haven't washed in months not basically i'm gonna show the absolute worst side of myself it still is gonna be okay and that way that if i leave you know obviously this is day one going into paradise if i leave with someone from paradise i don't want to leave with anyone but if i do then they're going to be pleasantly surprised coming out of the show because they're going to realize that all of these like when i was talking to caitlin on the first day or second day i was like telling her i was like look i don't want to hang out with your friends i don't have

any friends no one wants to be my friend i was telling her these things i didn't air any of this stuff i was convincing her that i had zero friends there's a reason why and she was still like that's weird that you don't have any friends but like okay and i was like literally showing the absolute worst sides of myself so that way when we got off the show she would be pleasantly surprised by all of the things that she could like actually be like oh that's actually really nice that you have friends and that you actually in a weird way you do have a job of sorts you make money you can travel freely all these things uh i'm gonna tease you a little bit but i want to follow up with something well is that in a way manipulative it might be you know a little bit maybe i could see i could see why you would say that yeah i don't think

it personally is i'm giving you a hard time okay um yeah i mean i i think that that is great and that's that it's hard to do we talked about on on monday's episode of i think real confidence is admitting insecurities and pointing out what you are worried, what people are thinking about you. Like, I know you're a free spirit and you're very independent, but are any of those things, things that you actually have insecurities about, about being different, about like being non-traditional? I know you've talked a little bit about your childhood and growing up and it's very, talked a little bit about your childhood and growing up and it's very again non-traditional are those things that you sometimes get insecure about when you're when when people you know holidays come up and talk about family and all they're doing is that something that i think if

you were to ask me that question a year ago i would have said absolutely yes i would get insecure about it but now i i don't and i think part of that comes from owning those owning all that stuff and this is like it's a new thing for me right like i don't i've never really been proud of my family dynamic before up until just recently even my i was actually just thinking about this the other day too is one of the biggest things that i dislike that people say to me that they've been saying a lot to me lately is dean's turning out to be like his father i hate that why yeah because a it's like you're basically implying that me turning out like my father is a bad thing right which sure my father has his issues to sort through and to deal with we all saw that on my

hometown but but you using me turning out like my father as an insult is kind of frustrating for me you know what i mean that can be be hard. Also, good or bad. I mean, you know, my guess is I don't know much of anything about your father. I do know that like... Nor do I. I do, like through you, you know, you're living in a van.

Your dad also has or does. He lives in an RV now, yeah. He lives in an RV. Your childhood was very much kind of like that and so they're comparing to that but in terms of qualities and how he had treated his friends and relatives versus you i mean i i don't know i've never met your dad but do you think there i think there's those comparisons that you get defensive about i think they're just going from the aesthetics of it all you know like he grows out of his hair they 100 are but i'm wondering do you get defensive about

uh you thinking about the person not the aesthetics it's weird because despite like all of despite the disconnect between my father and i um i still go to bat for him publicly like that you know like i don't want as you should i don't think other people should be talking shit about my father, right? Like I can talk shit about my father all I want, but not other people. I feel the same way. It's like when you're in a relationship sometimes and your girlfriend or boyfriend is constantly nagging at you. I will say I've had more than a couple of girlfriends who were more on the naggy, aggressive, critical side of things. No, really?

I will say this about them, though. When it was other people talking about me, they would fucking go to bat. It was always those people who were like the most, they'll pare you down, but anyone else, they would stab them if they were ever- And you like that. You like to see that, right?

I do. Well, I like the latter part. I like the loyalty. I would like to have it not come with a significant price but that's neither here nor there but it is nice with uh when you're close to you don't want other people talking shit yeah and again i don't know what was i guess the initial question that we were trying to answer there because when i think about it in my like alternate lifestyle choices that i make um i think that i look back to my childhood and obviously i think that's a big part of it right like yeah when i was when i

was really young from one year old until four years old so for three years of my life we lived in an rv my family did my father like bought a school bus basically ripped everything out of it converted it into a living space so there's five beds in this school bus 40 foot long school bus that we lived in and traveled in for three years until we eventually settled in colorado how many siblings do you have four i have three so there's four of us total and then the two parents so there's six of us it's big it was big well you have way more than that but still that's a like that's not like yeah and then and then that lifestyle is it makes it yeah we were super we were super like transient transient. And we sold temporary tattoos. My father panhandled for cash on the side at stoplights in order to pay her bills.

A bunch of stuff like that. And then so it's funny because I was thinking about this just the other day as well, where when I was younger, late single digits, early preteens, whatever, one of the biggest unifying ideas that we had as a family was we were always like, oh oh yeah remember what that time we lived in the school bus for three years and like that was like this weird thing that brought us together that basically like defined our family and then so now it's just like i think it's kind of like coming a full circle for me to be like oh i'm gonna live in a van now because like i have this comforting feeling of doing that from when i was a kid and how it kind of like bonded all of us as children how long are you

gonna do the van thing i can make it a year, I'm going to be happy. So if I started what, June 28, 2019, if I make it June 2020, I'll be happy. Do you feel like, I've talked about this before on other shows, just comparing your ability to travel alone and so independently, I am very envious of because I couldn't do that on multiple levels. I wouldn't know how to, I mean, listen, if I had to, I could,

but I don't know how to plan something like that just to do it. I would just, it would, I would have constant anxiety from beginning to end. But that's so, that's strange to me because you're so comfortable being alone. Not really though. I think that you are though. I like being with people.

I've become comfortable with being alone but i often feel lonely when i feel lonely i seek out um i seek out company um and i like but but i'm comfortable being alone like sitting on my couch watching football doing questions with nick yeah right but when i'm sharing a new experience i want to be able to share it with someone and even when you travel what i find fascinating is your ability to like you know i'm just watching your instagram like you're you seem to be around people you're always finding people uh so freely and just when i've gone out with you you you are you're more open than i am out in in in public and i find that to really, I'm envious of that of you. What makes you able to do that?

And is it because of your childhood that has allowed you to kind of just roll with the punches, so to speak, in a kind of whatever comes our way kind of mentality? I will say whenever people ask what my favorite characteristic of myself is, I respond with my ability to adapt to new environments pretty well. Whether that's like going to college or living in Los Angeles or traveling by myself or going out to bars with friends or whatever it is. I think that the biggest defining moment in my life as like a socialite was when I was 18, I got a job at a hotel, the Ritz-Carlton in Aspen as a bellman. And they put you through this like very strenuous like HR onboarding process. It's like two weeks long. And they're like, we're just going to make you like the most charismatic person we possibly can because that's what the guests want. They want someone charismatic that you can converse with, et cetera.

And I worked at that hotel for four, three years. And I like, I literally attribute my ability to like carry conversations or like be interesting in terms of like. You know when to turn it on. Yes. And I thank the Ritz Carlton and Aspen Highlands for that. That's amazing. That's a great skill. I mean, you think about it.

That's it's it's an education. They were willing to train you and pay me to it, which is great. That's pretty great. So that's kind of what I attribute that ability to. And it's interesting to look back and kind of find the origin point for that. But nowadays, it's like, it's funny because I look back at my time when I was like 18, 19, et cetera, in college, whatever. And like, you know, you still struggle with your identity when you're in college, especially. And so I was like trying to find my friend group, all of that kind of stuff. And

while I was still finding it, I spent a lot of time alone as like a freshman, all of that kind of stuff. And while I was still finding it, I spent a lot of time alone as like a freshman, sophomore in college or whatever. And at the time I was like terrified to go eat by myself or I was terrified to like go to the store by myself. And just because I didn't want other people like criticizing me or like being judgmental

of me being by myself. And now as a 28 year old, I'm like, I would almost prefer to go to dinner by myself. Yeah, we talked about this, I think with Baby Becca and her podcast podcast host jess um about you know being alone and loneliness and we talked a lot about having like date night with yourself which i would like when i was younger the idea of going to a movie by myself was like i wouldn't like i'm i am not a i'm a loser but not a total right there's like a negative

i still don't love going to movies by myself, but a dinner by myself, totally, totally fine. And I, when I moved to the new city, I was like sitting up, even like a nice like steak place, sitting at the bar by myself is actually. Well, you've told me some stories about you in Chicago, like, cause you obviously didn't know many people in Chicago. I didn't know anyone. Yeah. And that's tricky.

It's tricky. But when you do it, you give yourself the freedom. You give yourself permission to do it because you're not judging yourself. You have this built in excuse of, well, I don't know anyone as opposed to a city in which you have all these friends, but they're all busy. And you're like,

well, I'm only here because no one wants to hang out with me. And then you've, you've inside, it's all coming to the story. You tell yourself, no, yeah,

no one else knows at the restaurant. If they did, they're like, I bet that guy's friends don't want to hang out like that's not happening they're all just like why is this really you know if it was you like handsome guy just by himself just wow just man that guy he's confident he's just waiting for the women to walk up he's just oozing the confidence where'd did you go to college? University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. What was your major? Business, what was it? Business management. What is your least favorite thing about yourself?

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, that you attribute from your childhood, I guess, since your favorite thing was your ability to adapt. I mean, I've got pretty severe attachment issues. So I think that's probably my biggest issue with myself. In terms of you push people away. Yeah, yeah. How's Caitlin doing, by the way?

Am I allowed to be vocal like that? I don't know. Are you? No. What did they tell you? Honestly, I don't even know where we're at right now. So you guys are together. Great.

When is this episode air? Wednesday. Yeah, we're together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, her silhouette's been all over your instagram so you know the worst kept secret i know um we got to a point we were just like you know what as long as we're not posting pictures with the other person in it we're just gonna go ahead and keep doing it i mean on on my season of paradise amanda and josh were on the cover of us

weekly like mid mid season so i think with paradise it's they care less like they care less and there's multiple storylines and while you guys are wonderful you're not the right and we're not storyline we're not engaged you're not engaged but i do remember we were on a flight back from um italy a couple like a month ago and we landed at lax and i opened my phone and i got like I had like 100 texts and like a bunch of Facebook tag or Instagram tags and there's like e-news ran an article about Dean and Caitlin dating and we're like well what the hell like the show hasn't even began airing yet yeah they were like taking pictures of us walking through Venice or like on the airplane and stuff like that and

so it was weird that like our relationship was spoiled not by like some small spoiler page but e-news like ran an article saying like dean and caitlin are dating in fairness you guys could have been doing some sort of uh bachelor appearance in in italy yeah in italy you never know and the interesting thing about that is e-news is like an abc correspondent in a sense right so you don't have to think like abc almost green lit them to run that story right uh i mean i don't know for sure but my understanding is they try to work with them yeah in that sense they are an independent news uh entity so they're gonna run it if they want they're gonna make their own decisions but i think they're always uh it's

kind of like well they're also just one entity like if everyone's reporting on something you know they're not they're not always getting permission but they're i think they try to work with them i guess wasn't there like a tattoo picture you posted with her at a tattoo parlor um well i didn't post it but i guess the guy sitting across from us took a picture and sent it to tmz or something annoying um so you know with your attachment issues yeah uh. Yeah. What's your longest relationship you've ever had? Maybe just over a year. Just over a year. Yeah.

Are you always the one saying, I can't do it? Have you ever been dumped? Have you ever had your heart broken? Yes, I have been dumped. I have had my heart broken. Who broke your heart? Someone outside of the show? You've been obviously in love before.

How many times have you been in love? Why? This is not about me. Because I want to in love before. How many times have you been in love? Why? This is not about me. Because I want to, I want to bring us into this together. Yeah. You gotta be vulnerable. You want him to be vulnerable. How many times have I been in love?

Simple question. How many? Well, how many times have I said I love you to someone? No, that's not the question. How many times have you been in love? Well, I guess to answer that question, I, I, I meant it every time I said it. Right. Sure.

Um, there, but those were all different things the first time i was in love was a feeling i never felt before i didn't know how to process those emotions uh you know one two three i mean three outside of of bachelor nation yeah before and then i again i will never take back saying i love you to andy caitlin or vanessa it was in within those in that environment and there's some um outside influences that create this like rush of emotions but in those moments i truly had those feelings for them so i don't take it back it It was just different. Right. I mean, Vanessa also very different than Caitlin and Andy,

because we actually had a real relationship outside of the show. And, you know. So for me, I've been in love three times. I was in love once as a teenager, once as a young college student, and then once in my mid twenties. And.

Not now. Not now, not now. And I'm open about it. He's open about it. I'm absolutely willing to share that. And she is well aware of that. But we're working on it. It's a process, you know?

And I don't think she, we're not getting into that right now. Anyways, so your question was, have I been broken up with or have my heart been broken i've definitely had been broken hearted before like i've been cheated on by girls that i'm in love with many times and that's heartbreaking um i've been dumped but what i what i've done in the past as a weak-willed weak-minded individual you get them to break up with you i

find ways to make them break up with me that's the that's the trick what trick i mean i think i think a lot of men do that more than women i feel like uh is um i don't know what the reason is i guess it's maybe from a cult like i don't you know i don't want to be the bad guy i would rather have you just be mad at me. Fine. I don't care. So I'll just. We're cowards. Stop sucking. I'll start sucking as a boyfriend. And that way I'm not the bad guy. And then you broke up with me.

Right. And so it's pretty, guys do it a lot. I've talked with a lot of people of all ages about it's, yeah, he's getting to break up with you. And so what I've lately in my later adult life i've been more like i'm putting my foot down and i'm ending this relationship because i'm not getting what i need and clearly you're not getting what you need either and to that point it's that's great because that is a more mature and brave thing to do because you're taking accountability

for your own actions and saying you know you might hate me for this but i'm going to be honest and again we've talked about this on this show before it's like you have to be honest even when it's hard to do because people often say well i didn't i didn't want to tell you because i thought you'd be mad yeah and that's not thinking about the other person that's only thinking of yourself and trying to avoid an awkward situation and so you're taking accountability and ownership for how you feel and allowing that person to hate you because they might say fuck you dean or i hate you you're selfish you've changed all this like all those things inevitably come from sometimes telling someone how you feel yeah about a situation is hard to do

but my my experience with that too is i'm i'm always kind of blown away by the reaction that you receive from doing something like that when it's very clear that both people in the relationship are not happy. And it's like, how are you going to get upset with someone for ending something that you didn't want to be in the first place? You know what I mean? That rejection trigger. Yeah. I think those are just feelings and hurt. And then you're trying to process it. And your ego's, I mean, you're trying to process it and we like your egos i mean if you're you're not

thinking about that think of all the relationships that are out there when when you're broken up with and you're pining over this person that fast forward right before you broke up all you were doing was bitching about them to your friends right and what people always do that like men and women both do that and then you're like as the friend you're like you didn't even like them but oh my god no they were sweet. And you start defending them because you got broken up with and you're trying to justify the relationship that you, you know, it's all ego driven. So it's. Yeah, you know, it's interesting, like when people get in the van and they have the camera on them and they're like, it's never about like, oh, I'm so sad this person broke up with me.

I really love them. It's always like this always happens to me. I'm good enough like everyone always says i'm such a catch why am i still alone yeah because you're always trying to validate it's like what the fuck like when you get cheated on this whole thought of how why would someone cheat on me it feels like like it's an like people take it as a reflection of themselves it really has nothing to do with that because even in a relationship that's not working that other person could have ended it before they fucked someone else right uh but it feels like a reflection of of you i mean that's i know how i

that's how i felt when i was cheated on it's just like really you why why am i not good enough not to be cheated on like what am i not giving you that someone else is able to yeah it's like and then you start fantasizing about like them being yeah it will fuck you with you and it's all just about your ego and you start and then you stop what you're doing is assessing the actual actual relationship on whether was it healthy or not you literally like people will really just not even look at the actual relationship it's just about why wasn't i good enough right yeah absolutely and so for me with relationships uh especially i don't know actually how to really phrase this properly but i've always been very selective of the people that i enter into relationships with and i think you're very selective as well rightfully so it's because like

you don't want to you you want to make sure that you're with someone that meshes well with who you are what you want and what you see a relationship being right yeah i mean for me it's i've become more and i talked about this before i fear sometimes i've gotten a little too selective yeah in that sense i could almost agree with that i think you are a little too selective and that's just because i and it's just, I don't know what it looks like that I should pursue now. It's like I meet this person, that person. So you're great. I'm very attracted to you or you're fun to talk. It's harder to just go for it.

Right. And I think I have to try to do that. For me, there's a little bit of having my guard up or or whatever part of it too is maybe some selfishness of um i don't want to really commit to this because i'm afraid in a six weeks i won't feel the way you want me to feel and then i'll have to have some awkward conversation. Or just get them to break up with you. Yeah. And I think I have a bad habit, and I don't know if you feel that you do the same,

of playing out the early stages of a relationship and I'll meet someone and then just be like, well, let's just be friends. In my head, I'll be like, well, this isn't going to work out. And I don't really know. I haven't really given them or the relationship a shot. Right. And so for me, so the big reason I came back for Kaylin actually to ask her to be my girlfriend was because I did a lot of thinking about it. And I was like, look, I know Kaylin

and I aren't a perfect match on paper, right? Like she has all these interests and my interests are way on the other side of the spectrum. And I know that, but I guess i wanted to be able to go back and make like a concerted effort and be like listen i know that we don't perfectly align in terms of our our values our interests our hobbies whatever it is but i will like i want to at least put the effort forth or yeah put forth the effort yeah whatever i said you know, I mean, you know exactly how it is. Like relationships are kind of weirdly like a muscle, right? Unless you work them out, you're never really going to improve on them. You're not going to get better at them.

And so this is my mindset. I was like, I'm never going to be a better version of myself in a relationship unless I start trying to be in a relationship. I totally agree. And listen, all you could have done is be direct with Kaylee, which you did. But why on her birthday? Or was that planned? In my defense, it was 3 a.m. the next day. So it was technically the day after her birthday.

You had a track record of giving people birthday cakes and then fucking them. Not literally, metaphorically, fucking them over. In my defense on that, it was a half birthday cake just so you know you tease them these girls who like want to have sex with you i'm gonna i'm gonna give you some cake and then i'm gonna fuck you and they get excited and you're like over i'm gonna fuck you over uh i'm just kidding what's funny about the birthday thing with kaylin was there was a lot of other stuff that i did that they didn't air which i'm kind of sad about like i wrote her some funny poems probably help that's probably no you're right and it honestly

you would seem like a bigger dick it's often to blow a little bit i like shaved off a little bit of my mustache and i like you know like when you pluck an eyelash and you make a wish i like shaved off my mustache and i let her make a wish with that yeah you they the show it was it's often to blow a little bit yeah and you want to know what's funny actually is um you all we all you i guess you specifically know how much editing can play into the way that people perceive you on the show and i'm not going to say that my edit has been good in paradise but it certainly has been bad it could have been a lot worse it's like i watched the show back and i'm like wow the the editing team is really doing me a solid on this one. The music was romantic. It really comes down to music, right?

And it's just tone and a feeling. And the show is good at having relatable moments. Sometimes we have all been on the wrong side of them telling their story. And it doesn't make you a good or a bad person. If you really think about the show, what's going on, is anyone doing anything terrible like for the person you think so let's say the luke p of the world um he is bad as he was i mean i'm not defending some of his actions but like we've all in moments in our lives done things

that luke p has done where it was you know what i'm saying we've all been there we've all had our weaker moments and so you know when when people look bad in the show it's like before you point the finger so to speak well and it's just like the attention span of the viewer is so short it's like in a week people are going to forget entirely about you i don't know it took me a minute to remember who luke p even was even though he's such a polarizing figure on his season of the bachelorette you know what i mean and he did so many things poorly but again like you said in the grand scheme it just it doesn't matter and wells wells is a big advocate advocate for this as well he's like if you're if you get a bad edit one week just remember that none of this matters because like people don't care don't care

for very long every i mean when people come on the new people who come on and unless you're three top three or four and even then and they'll like i'll meet them and they're just always talking about something that they don't like and i go i don't mean this to to be a dick i mean this try to give you perspectives no one cares they don't like only you are fixated and maybe your mom right you know uh but it really doesn't matter getting back to go ahead but why the birth you never answered why the birthday why on her birthday did they break up with her yeah um well how how how honest do we want to get here? Honest. That's what you're about. Authenticity. I don't know.

That might be some. Yeah. Some behind the scenes thing. Okay. I was. Okay. So it was pretty well known on the beach through everyone, through the fellow cast members,

through all the production, through Kalen and me, that I was not going to leave that beach in a relationship with Kalen. I was very, very clear with every person on the beach. I was like, look, I'm just here to have fun hang out with you guys and every single day that i spent on that beach caitlin got more and more attached to me like a piece of velcro like you you knew like well we talked before you went on you weren't coming with back with the producers are okay with that they're like yeah you can do that i think that the producers thought that i was

going to go in do whatever i do and get kicked off the next day they didn't think that i was going to actually form a genuine connection with someone this is this is my perception of i could be mistaken you thought they would you thought they thought you would be there for a day or two they thought that i was going to be like again i could be way off but this is what i think that they thought that i was going to be like a gimmick of sorts just come and show up be there for two days not get a rose because i'm not taking it seriously get the boot and go home and they i don't know i think you're selling yourself a little short and that's honestly kind of what i thought too and so when i was down there and i was i was telling everyone was like yeah like this has been fun i'm having fun but kaylin knows i'm

not going to be her boyfriend she knows that i'm not i don't want her to be my girlfriend everyone knew that production contest all the fellow contestants there was a point on the birthday night where i did all these things i you know we sang happy birthday we got our cake we got our champagne i wrote these poems whatever and after all of that i got pulled aside and i was having a conversation with my one of my buddies down there. I won't say who it was exactly. But we basically were discussing for a while and we came to the conclusion. We were like, look, if I'm on that beach knowing full well that I will not leave that beach in a relationship with Kaylin, the longer I stay there, the more intertwined her feelings get into mine.

The more attached to me she becomes. feelings get into mine like the more attached to me she becomes and so it makes more sense for me to leave now than to leave in a week and a half two weeks when her feelings just continue to escalate and on top of that i was well aware that there was another guy that she wanted she the first five seconds of meeting her she was like yeah i want connor connor s to come down to this beach to like take me on a date she told me that when i walked down the stairs she was really hoping that i was connor s and so she was very upfront and clear that she was interested in Connor coming down to the beach first. And obviously I had known at that point, Connor hadn't come down. So I was like, look, I know Connor's coming down at some point. If I'm here and Connor comes down, you're not going to

be able to explore that relationship with him because you're going to be like fixated on me. You're going to be torn. You're going to be in this weird triangle. I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but if I'm here, you won't have the full experience that you want to have and i'm not gonna leave here in a relationship connor probably wants a relationship and so because of all those things i'm gonna leave that makes sense that was my thought process to all of it what do you think about what connor said after about my van well like this whole last episode he was basically saying kaylin cock blocked him at the wedding. We'll get to that.

Hold on. Yeah. So then you leave, right? And you feel like you needed to get outside of that environment to have a clear train of thought because it sounds like from beginning of from it sounds like from the first time you went down there to you left, you had been fixated on this idea that you weren't going to be a relationship. And so having been in that world,

I can, you can feel that like that pressure of, well, I I'm committed to this and how do I, you know, I just, I'm not going to want to be in a relationship. I don't know if I really want to be with Kayla.

And then you leave and then you're outside of that bubble. And that's when you started what? Like, must have known like you said to if you were going to come back that she was probably you don't know what's going on but probably hanging out with connor and probably liking him and you know as we saw you really put her in a tough spot and then kind of you know yeah connor was a little uh bummed he's a little sour about it um i so i flew back you know you get your phone back basically the second you get to the airport turned my phone on flew back obviously didn't have like wi-fi or anything on the flight because it was like some cheap international flight whatever but i landed in san diego which is where my van was parked even though it was in

the shop whatever that doesn't matter um and I landed and I texted one of the producers, the one that I was closest with while I was there. And I said, hey, man, like I'm really sad. Like I didn't really expect to be this sad. And he sent me this super, super long text back. Like one of the ones that like has to abbreviate itself and then you click on it and it expands bigger, you know, like a very, very long text message. Yeah, that's interesting.

And he was like, he was basically like talking me through it. Like he's been, has had his fair share of grief that he's dealt with in his life. So he was basically like talking me through it like he's been has had his fair share of grief that he's dealt with in his life so he was basically like giving me his his advice um and one of the pieces of advice was go to the grand canyon and like think about things and it wasn't like go to the grand canyon now and think about things he's just like at some point in your life make it to the grand canyon because it like provides perspective on your life and you know can hopefully like provide clarity for you and so i was like fuck it like i've got nothing else to do i'm just gonna drive to the grand canyon right now since my van was in the shop i had to rent a car

drove directly out there see i can't do that good for you anyways go ahead and i talked to some of my friends on the way out and all of them were like um i didn't talk to you actually funny enough even though i probably should have because you probably give me the best advice but two of my really close friends they were like don't go back it doesn't make sense for you to go back just wait for her to come off the show in a week and a half text her and try and like rekindle things after the show it's a win-win if it doesn't go your way at least it's not advertised and broadcasted to the entire world if it does go your way great you're in the relationship you want to be in anyways um and i got to the grand canyon i started thinking about

things i was like knowing how attached she like kaylin wants to be in a relationship right like she is a relationship girl that's it's not a dig at all it's just like that's what she wants it's what she wants that's great that's perfectly fine and so i knew that if a guy comes down onto the beach that she's interested in and that is definitely interested in her there's no way that they're not going to leave the beach together in a relationship exactly you'd have no shot right and so it's like sure maybe we could talk about things but then i'm having to combat a relationship that she's already in with me trying to like be like pleading my case you know what i mean it just didn't make sense and so from that point i was like what do i have to lose if i go back and i get rejected at least i put forth the effort to try and have this relationship work out if i get what i want

which is the relationship then even better so it was basically a win-win in my case. Like I was putting my heart out there. I was letting it happen. If I got dumped, rejected, I guess is a better term to use. That's fine. At least I'll have known that that was the course of action. You did the right thing. I think having, I mean, the hindsight is that, you know, it's weird in that world.

If you start a relationship on TV, you should try, if you can, to see it through because even for yourself, because that's how it started and everything else is a bit weirder. And then again, regardless of the relationship, I think everyone wanted to see this kind of thought process that you had and this admittance of your insecurities

and things you thought about. And if even if Kaylin would have rejected you that would have been probably also a great moment for you yeah um and just your journey would have continued so to speak let me ask you this because on the on the episode christina pulls me aside well pulls me aside she comes out and sits next to me on the daybed and says that it was selfish of me to do what i did to go back do you think it was selfish i think i think a lot of people can perceive it that way i was going to get to that what your thoughts were about some of the kind of the the chat that obviously you weren't privy to when it was going on in real time um i hated christina coming over and talking to me. I could have. And then when she said, she's like, when he hurts you, call me or something.

Remember? Yeah, I mean, listen, I, Christina got really mad at me for calling her out on this podcast. I didn't read it, but I've heard her fans were not so much. So I'll just leave it alone. But listen, I think Christina's, I've said this, I think she's getting a pretty accurate edit this season

in terms of someone who constantly is inserting themselves yeah um yeah i i thought it was kind of weird that she did that and i think she's very smart and and clever um and knows always what she's doing right yeah um yeah i i listen can it be selfish sure i mean only you, only, you know, the answer to that, I guess is the point, right? Um, sometimes just like thinking a big picture, uh, people often in minus this TV world, when people break up with someone and they come back, they have to do it because they're bored or lonely. Uh, lots of times with questions with Nick, I'll get these questions and my quick

response is, oh, he came back. What should I do? It's just like, well, just as long as you know, he tried to find something better, didn't, and now he's bored and came back. That's generally the answer. And that often happens. Every situation is different, right? In your case, you went to the Grand Canyon. I mean, you really thought about this. your case you went to the grand canyon i mean you really thought about this kaylin could still get hurt you might there's some selfishness that sure is going on you are thinking about your feelings and you are being honest with her in the sense that but you're being honest with her in such a kind of intoxicating way of yours you're kind of at the same time telling her you're you're special you're the one you're the one i want to try to be a better man for, which everyone, guy or girl, wants to hear. Again, all you can do is be honest with her.

And you said this on the show. You might get hurt. She could get hurt. You don't know. There's no guarantees when you're going back in a relationship. I know you as a person, so you try to be as honest as possible. And I know you have a kind heart and you care about the hearts of the people around you but were you thinking about your needs of course you were going down to the beach that doesn't mean that you don't have a right to and she could have also said no right uh that was my take on it was i don't think it was selfish because at the end of the day it was her decision to either say yes or no right so i don't really see how there could be a selfish and again you

didn't necessarily, like when I give those examples on my Q and A or whatever, it's like you didn't like break up with Kaylin because you want to date other people. You know, like in real life, you're in a relationship and you're monogamous and then you break up because you want to explore other things. That's not your case.

Every situation is different. So do I think overall you were selfish? No, but I can see why people say that. And in a sense, you were thinking about your needs. All you can do is be honest. I do think sometimes when breakups happen, people feel like they have to take sides, right? And so I think you're just seeing a little bit of that.

If you guys don't work out, I mean, you just might not work out and who knows. But it was back to the original thought of leaving. It's funny how this is going to, this might sound kind of selfish or like self-deluded, but like how perfect everything worked out for me for leaving the show. It worked out perfectly. What do you mean? I left the show. The next day was what do you mean i left the show the next day was a wedding chris and crystal got married i like chris and crystal i didn't want to go to that

wedding i i didn't want to go i heard it wasn't super fun why it was because it was also it was a wedding as well as a tv production which was a long day it was more of a tv production than a wedding so there was no music right oh they were i had exes at that wedding like i i missed seeing my exes at the wedding which was fantastic you really navigated some landmines how many exes did you have at the wedding all of them three i got to i got to see the grand canyon i got to come back into los angeles and record two episodes of my podcast, Help I Suck at Dating. If you guys want to subscribe, be sure to do that.

I got to record two episodes of my podcast and then I got to fly back to Mexico and get my girlfriend. Hell yeah. Like it doesn't, it couldn't have gotten any better than the way that it went. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And you know, all jokes aside, you, what you were is honest with yourself and you were not afraid of criticism because in the moment you say that now with the benefit of hindsight, but when you left on her birthday, clearly you knew that you could be seriously criticized. When you're choosing to come back, you probably knew, I don't know how this is going to go

when you're showing up with a mustache well that's a risk so you know what i'm saying like you you did things unafraid of looking bad and usually that's when people tend to look good it is a weird thing um experiencing this whole process knowing that there's a happy ending like knowing that there's going to be lows but then at the at the end of the tunnel it's going to be positive and it's i think that was my first experience with that i'm sure you experienced a lot solely on your season of the bachelor where you had like a lot of negative things people were probably talking shit about you for a lot of things but you know at the end of it you were going to end up in a relationship

because you were in the relationships right so it's like caitlin for instance she hasn't been through this as many times as i have and so she was going through a whole lot of her own you know um difficulties in the beginning of the season airing and i i kept telling her i was like you shouldn't be upset about this like yes be upset about it but don't dwell on it because like at the end of the show at the end of the day like you're in a relationship and you're happy like there's no reason for you to be upset about all of these things that don't matter well what you had to i think what you're happy like there's no reason for you to be upset about all of these things that don't matter well what you had to i think what you're speaking to when you say to me is what you opened up the show with is you had the benefit of the experience of not looking good on your first time in paradise right and then you survived it and you were fine your life was totally fine it really didn't make

a difference and so hindsight i guess you had the benefit of saying and let's be honest it's not like you were without criticism this season right you weren't like you didn't show up flawless without people like criticizing you or team connor or whatever but overall people got to see your pros and cons and the and that's what people like to see because i think people starting to get to see dean the human being and you know the the good and the bad and that makes you more relatable rather than this hot guy who like is looking for love on the bachelorette and i think other people like kaylin and you see this with cast members they're just so afraid of it that any moment of not looking good they start editing themselves and becca tilly texted me uh

like a week or two ago and she's really pissed off at me. She goes, Dean, do you need to stop retweeting negative things about you? Because I would literally like, I would like literally see people tagging me in a tweet and be like, Dean's such a piece of shit

for dumping Kayla on her birthday or something like that and I'd be like, retweet. I am a piece of shit. Bucket, I'm controlling this narrative. Yes,

take back the power. I tend to do that too and I get criticized on my instagram but i for the same reason is well because the flip side is retweeting compliments and that just looks weird douchey and weird and then there's a flip side of retweeting the negative stuff because what happens when you do that it just kind of feeds into this uh idea that you are this negative person that's like the one downside is like people start to see you have people who defend you oh yeah of course yeah right you have yeah you kind of and it shows like it makes i want to probably makes you more human right i get becca's point

of view that you are a great guy and you sometimes bask in that but i get why you do it i've done that too yeah there was this there was this one that was like a retweet for connor and like for dean and i was like yeah i'll retweet for Connor and like for Dean. And I was like, yeah, I'll retweet that right away. Real fast. Which made you more likable. And it made the comment get more likes because my followers all saw it.

I'm playing chess. Oh, how are you and Connor? Oh, we're fine. We actually saw each other at the reunion. It was, it was funny. I guess I can share the story. I don't see why not i walked up to him i was like hey man like it's nice to meet you you're even more handsome in person than you are on television and from a distance because i only saw him from a distance on the beach that one time

uh we didn't really talk much and then the reunion happened and he like tried to talk shit but i was like i don't know if he really tried to talk shit actually your face no he was just like he was like i just don't see why you left with this guy to kaylin and then chris harrison asked me like what do you what do you think of it i was like well look i get it like connor's this really incredibly good looking dude i was terrified i was like building him up and then after the show i like shook his hand i was like hey like it's nice to officially like formally meet you and he leans over and he goes nice to meet you too man i would really love to see the van sometime i've been thinking about doing the van life myself and i go bro you can't say that

because you've been talking shit about my van non-stop on the bachelor paradise um and then it's idm's i'm actually a little bit afterwards i was just like reiterating like hey nice to meet you um best of luck with everything moving forward and he was like yeah congratulations on the van life like i'm super jealous of the van life and i'm like well are you jealous of it or do you want to talk shit about it which one is it you know what i mean all right i i really feel like this is an opportunity here uh to help connor get a van and be travel buddies i would love that connor connor if you're listening to this you seem like a great guy i want to be friends let's be van buddies sounds like a great show van buddies van buddies let's get uh connor with dean and

connor and i will say i think that part of the reason he was dogging the van so hard is because you know how it is like you got a producer behind the camera feeding you like connor this dude lives in his fucking van and your girl's gonna leave with him and connor goes this guy lives in a fucking van and she's gonna leave like he's basically repeating what he's being yeah listen in that world we play off yeah they play off our insecurities we play off our own insecurities um this it kind of was a guy who had a crush on a girl who some other guy and in his mind you're like an old creepy dude because to every younger guy anyone who's older is old and creepy and he was pissed and he was heartbroken and i think he was really excited about kaylin and you fucking stomped on his heart i love that the way that they played connor and whitney's relationship

yeah we had such great conversations at the wedding but then kaylin came over no no it's like we had such great conversation and then it like uh pants then having a conversation he goes so where are you from minnesota where are you from wisconsin and that's the whole conversation wait connor's from wisconsin um i think so. Michigan, maybe. Somewhere in the Midwest. Whitney's from Minnesota. Very beautiful girl. Very sweet. Not the most talkative.

Very, very sweet. I really liked Whitney. She was really... Why'd you dump her then? We didn't really connect on a conversational level, which is okay. You're not going to have that with everyone. But she was... She was a really... I really her her and i've run into her a few times and she's a really really great person i've always enjoyed her um yeah well what else rochelle well i mean

you've been so supportive of kaylin through all that stuff yeah and it's just nice to see i think it's really sweet it was funny watching the show back because connor was saying things like he's not gonna fight for you and i was watching it with caitlin and she looked over at me and laughed and she goes through all the shit that i've been through if anything connor wouldn't have fought for me through all this shit and i'm like she was like grateful that i was like it does kind of suck to have to like stand up for my girlfriend all the time and even though like i can't necessarily be telling the world this is my girlfriend right um and i guess i i don't think I was standing up for her, of course. But I was also just, in my opinion, objectively saying how ridiculous a lot of this stuff that was going on was.

You're talking about the Blake stuff? Yeah. So while I was standing up for her, I was also speaking how I actually honestly felt with all that stuff. I mean, she, you know, let's talk. We have a few minutes left. Let's tap into that a that a little quickly she kaylin is not without criticism this season and i told her that many times and she gets pissed off me every time what do you mean that that she has had criticism i'm just like i would like i would just be talking about the situation even like on the phone to like a producer or something with her in the room and be like yeah

like this whole all this stuff sucks like i get it like blake made mistakes kaylin's not absolved from all of this stuff and she would look at me be like oh i'm like i would be like well you're not like you're not innocent does she does she know that she knows it now but she you know it's just like it sucks to hear i'm better i i said that to her and she seemed to handle it she's gotten better with it it just sucks for her i think it was she was still adjusting at the time you know what i mean um because she's not and she knows that and neither is blake no no one is free of criticism like you said in this situation have her and blake spoken uh outside of the show and what what kind of terms are they on at this point i don't know if i can really answer that question for her you know nice i appreciate what you're trying to do, but it's not my place.

Yeah. Good for you, Dean. Great. Yeah. I had to ask. Yeah. No, I get it. But I would love to answer.

I'll answer this after the podcast. But that's fine. No, you should always respect your relationship. I'm yeah. I'm curious. You know, you're talking about like how you weren't that guy that we saw in The Bachelorette. And I I'm just wondering, like, how do you even ended up on the bachelorette then if it was like so foreign well i mean of course i i'm i am that person but there's also just so much more to me that they didn't show on

the bachelorette you know and it's a lot more it's a lot easier to it's like it's more difficult but it's easier to be in that environment because it's just as like you have one thing to focus on. That's all you have to focus on is just this relationship with this person that you're trying to like marry, essentially. How did I get on the show? My best friend called me a couple of years ago and he goes, Dean, I'm going to do something for you. And regardless of what it is, I want you to follow through with it. And I was like, Mike, of course, man, like I trust you with my life. I'll do whatever it is.

An hour later, I get a call from Amy Sugarman, who's our friend. And she's like good friends with one of the executive executive producers and she like talks me for an hour and she goes you're perfect you're perfect you're perfect we're gonna get you in touch with the producers talk to uh megan firestone who's another executive producer on the show for like an hour and then it was like fast tracked it was like over the course of a week i did like the psych the physical the meeting with the producers and then like three weeks later i left for the show so it was quick and it was one of those things where i didn't watch the show i had maybe seen like an episode of jojo season with my friend who actually was the one that nominated me so like i i was familiar with

it but i didn't know how it worked like before i went to film bachelorette i watched like the first three episodes of jojo season because i was like i don't know how this works like i don't know what to do yeah um same thing with paradise i'd never watched paradise before going to paradise i watched like the first three episodes of paradise that's a lot of people i mean it's not who's made for the bachelor who envisioned himself to go on ben higgins i don't know i mean i was talking with uh grocery store joe during our fantasy football draft and he was talking about his night one experience right and again i think it's especially with the men it's like 50 50 it's maybe some guys who sign themselves up or they've had a friend but they're fans they've watched the show they've seen it like

they go in night one and they they kind of have their lines they've decided they're gonna say and then you have other people who are just like i don't know i'm gonna have to do this thing i was gonna do it and and grocery store joe was very much the latter and probably why he he played a little bit too far into that and he got sent home you know and that he was like he told this story and i mean it was it was clay and it wasn't like it was he showed up night one and he was saying how like and not to say that clay was necessarily disingenuous he just walks up to joe who at this time he never met clay this football player grocery joe and and just walks up to joe who at this time he never met clay this football player grusha joe and and clay walks up to joe and goes i just feel so bad for becca's

heart and and you know for what ari did to her and joe is this like all right man i'm gonna go in the kitchen i don't know what's going on because it was he just felt like i don't what who whose heart and what's happening i don't know she's the bachelorette she seems to be doing fine and clay was just like kind of almost bachelor speak so to speak i'm not saying whether clay meant or not i don't know but to a guy like grocery joe he's like i'm a guy who just sells like produce and uh this seems weird joe wasn't that and other people seem to fit more and it just it's just 50 50 i will say my experience particularly i don't i was if you were to go through the rankings of the contestants on my season 1 through 30 whatever

it is i was by no means the fourth most qualified person to be with rachel at the end of my season because i got fourth at my hometowns i do believe that the only reason i made it as far as i did was because i had a compelling family dynamic that was my favorite hometown yeah i think like you look at like people like matt munson adam gotchok these guys who went home much earlier than i did and you don't remember their names because they didn't make a statement because they're so normal right and because they're they're great people but just because they didn't have maybe as much of a compelling story that they didn't make it quite as far and so i i have bought into the idea that because my family is weird i made it to hometowns on my season of bachelorette you know what i mean i mean you're there maybe there's some truth that you're selling yourself a little bit short too

keep in mind that the lead has a say you know like people always have these mixed opinions of yeah i'm not saying rachel ever thought you were going to be the one yeah but she obviously liked you enough to bring you it. It was never weird between us. Yes. There is that. And I don't know these other guys that you're mentioning them, but she might've been like, I'm not even that interested in getting to know him.

It might've been Rachel's interest in like, I don't know. I like looking at him and he has a cool story and he can talk. As the lead, I guess I've said this before, just ability to hold a conversation is paramount and you can do that. And you're not closed off. And that is refreshing on that side of it. I just look at the parallels between Rachel's season and the person who got fourth on your

season. It's just like, you're in Corinne's camp. Also interesting, compelling hometown. You're no Corinne. Yeah. It doesn't add up. It's not a one for one. I know. You're right. You're right. it doesn't add up. It's not a one for one. I know you're right. Every season is different,

but you had a kind of a trailer park family, not trailer park. That's not, but like you, a gypsy. I don't know. Like you had a compelling family, hometown,

unique. Corinne had a nanny, you know, very, very heavily contrast. We were poor my whole life. She was richer. But either way, it was a fascinating storyline.

So, um, have you like, have you already talked about this to death, but, or like, my whole life she was rich her whole life but either way it was a fascinating storyline so um have you like have you already talked about this to death but or like did you do a deep dive into why you have those attachment issues or do you um i've experienced a lot of loss in my life to people around me like the close ones um like my best friend when i was little my mother and my best friend when i was in college i think that maybe is where it stems from. I don't, I've gone to therapy quite a bit for all of it. I haven't gone recently

and I kind of kick myself a little bit for that. It's hard when I'm traveling so much, but it's something I'm working on. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you want to take me traveling? I'd love to. Where do you want to go? We're supposed to be going to the Caribbean or something like that. Ben wants to take us to Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico, yeah. I can go to Puerto Rico. I know you invited me to Egypt and and i can't yeah you should go egypt ride a camel i i'm i want i want you to take me on a trip why can't you go to egypt it gives me i don't know just go nick it's what like it's like in two weeks and i just i have it was short short notice. It was short notice. I'm sorry. I can't. We'll do the podcast there. Yeah. Also, you want to get some tattoos with me? Yeah.

Nick texted me last night and he goes, hey, man, do you want to get a bunch of tattoos with me? I go, what? Let's say the reason. I've always kind of thought about getting tattoos and I never did. And I just feel like it'll like danger me up a little bit. I think at this point in your life, like you should be proud of the fact you made it 38 years without getting a

tattoo. And now not the only reason that I get self-conscious about getting one. I don't want to be midlife crisis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, I just like,

I mean, let's, let's be real though. You're well past the middle of your life. Oh, he's not even gonna respond it's a sensitive subject let's face facts here you got a birthday you think you're gonna be 76 years old i don't no i'm just kidding i'm just kidding i have a birthday coming up and i'm really i'm not happy about it well

that's a peter looks hot there peter does look hot. Peter's hot. Oh, that's cool. That's my ex-girlfriend. Nice. Oh, there's the Kaylin and me one. Second road. Oh, yeah. This from the tattoo parlor. Yeah.

So if you could help me with all the things I'm not good at, that'd be. I'd love that. And you can help me with dating. Well, how? I mean, I can give you advice, but i can't really help you that's all i need is advice yeah but i mean you can help me learn how to wear a fucking suit because you looked fantastic i will say i don't do a lot of things right but i wear the hell out of a suit i really do yeah i don't know i don't know why maybe give me some book streets i can have as

open and diverse of a vocabulary as you. I don't really have that. He doesn't read. You don't read. You don't read. I don't read a ton. I read. I read every day.

I just don't read literature per se. How do you consume your, I guess, news? Twitter. Yeah? Like links to articles. I curate my Twitter for like information and then I read all these articles, whether it's about politics, sports, the news.

Do you stay current on politics? Not a ton. I find politics to be just another reality TV show, to be quite honest, especially now. It's a lot of, a ton of information that get people a lot of overreactions and all these things i i mean i find that to be frustrating i used to i used to be more into politics when i was in college and then it just was like it's the same thing you want what's funny is uh this is gonna kind of get off topic but now they're doing a pretty deep dive on

contestants social media before going on the tv show right we've seen in years past where there's been some controversial figures like why they're releasing them early now right i think that might be why i think it's all part of it and and so now because i went back on bachelor in paradise this season they didn't do it my first three seasons but this season they did a deep dive on my facebook i had to accept a friend request so this guy could go back to years and years and years i had a facebook when i was 15 years old in high school yeah i said a lot of dumb things when i was 15 years old i bet and i had to go and scrub it was all very harmless it was like me making fun of my

friends on facebook whatever and just out of curiosity i was like reading some of my old posts and i was like i was like trashing barack obama no like supporting mccain heavily so funny and i look back now and i'm like what the hell was i thinking like how did i how was i so conservative back then but i'm so progressive now or like so liberal now you know what i mean uh i mean i i don't know why you were i mean i don't even for me like to identify with uh republican or democrat or conservative or liberal i i don't like the label aspect you pigeonhole yourself and you then people latch on uh but i know that i had all my points of view um from my my parents yeah and like your friends i guess my friends i joke

again my even my parents thought process has changed and they've become more open-minded but i i thought when bill clinton was elected it was the end of the world because my parents told me it was going to be the end of the world you know and again i'm not here to uh you know when it comes like i said i i think we spend too much time when it comes to politics of letting it separate us, putting people in boxes and stuff, putting people in boxes. It immediately tells you subconsciously that that person is my enemy.

If you have opposing points of view. Yeah. And unfortunately I think people have a hard time if they find someone who disagrees with them about a passing subject, they, again, they push them away rather than saying, I would love to learn about your points of view and have that other person

mutually respect the fact that they have differences and say, well, I would also like to understand your points of view and then do that without raising tensions and pointing figures. And that almost never happens. And I think that's why I don't like to get into identifying with those things because you can have beliefs and have a discussion. And until that happens, never happens and i think that's why i don't like to get into identifying with those things because you can have beliefs uh and have a discussion and until that happens we won't really ever have

progress in those and those kind of arenas that's i agree it's also something i'm not passionate enough about to really like care about arguing with someone about you know what i mean like yeah i've i don't find people to be open so it's So it's like arguing with the wall. There's no point. Yeah. Well, Dean, before we let you go, we're going to play this game called Do You Know Me? Okay.

Fun little game we like to play with our guests to figure out who, between Rochelle and I, knows you better. So how does... Okay. It's real simple. I'm going to read off a question. You're not gonna answer

immediately to us we're gonna guess oh okay great and then at the end we'll figure out if we know dean better cool first question has dean ever eaten bear meat has dean ever eaten as he lives in a van bear meat i think he would eat bear meat. He hasn't eaten bear meat. In all his adventures, you don't think he's met someone who's like, here, have some of my bear. I'm going to say no. I think he would if he had the opportunity. I think he would try it, but I don't think he has. Do people eat bear meat?

Oh, dang it. Actually, interestingly enough, in Finland, it's on the menu at a restaurant where Al and bennett ate bear meat i've had a lot of i've eaten a lot of weird things i don't think i've ever had bear though oh yeah one sorry rachel can dean play an instrument i want i'm gonna say yes i bet they all his family all played together in that school bus. So just so we're clear, let's actually play where they really know how. Yeah, they had a family band. I'm going to say no. We each specialize in an instrument, harmonica, banjo, tambourine.

No, I did not play an instrument. Oh, dang it. The ungulates. That would have been true. To nothing. Has Dean ever used handcuffs during sex well i'm gonna say yes just because i hope it's true nick no i haven't oh you were smiling like you i'm super vanilla in the sack i just like it

missionary i like it to last about two to six minutes. I like the lights off. This is Dean going back to... Downplaying it so no one's ever disappointed. And I like it to be silent the entire time. So you're both wrong on that one. Can Dean name three of John Mayer's exes what are you you go first uh i think sure if he really tries he can i feel like i'm gonna say no just to say no i think i think taylor swift one hallie berry no i don't i don't know i don't think so selena gomez i don't know. I don't think so. Selena Gomez.

I don't know. Wow, Dean. No. Can you guys name three? Jennifer Aniston. Oh, good for him. Katy Perry. Katy Perry. Katy Perry.

Yeah. All right. I won. Two to two. One more. Has Dean ever spanked their partner during sex? It better be a yes. I'm going to say, oh, hell yes.

A little pat. I mean, yeah. Obviously. But that goes against what I was just saying missionary i know well you gotta stick to your narrative i guess animal spanking i have very sensitive butt cheeks am i getting spanked or am i spanking other you give and you get i will say i've been spanked i will say i got spanked once years ago long long time ago it really weirded me out. I'm not a huge fan of being dominated in bed. It wasn't even a dominating thing.

It was just like, it just was weird. Like the man's, a male butt isn't as beautiful as a woman's butt. You know what I mean? And it shouldn't be spanked accordingly. And you have a nice butt for a guy. I did win my high school superlative, Basalt High School, class of 2009. It was best badonkadonk. What a title. That's nice. And me and Heather Nemick, she had a great badonkadonk mine was pretty good too i wonder what she's up to she got married actually last year congrats

how do you feel about that i'm very happy for her i haven't talked to her since high school but she's a nice girl final thoughts dean do you have anything for us it's an honor to be here it's a pleasure to be the fourth male on this podcast behind Brad, Chris, and Tyler. I now see where I fall into the pecking order of Nick's friends. But not in my heart. I'm probably third behind Tyler and then Chris. And I don't know. I got to say, I feel like there was a fascination with Tyler with Rochelle, but I feel like

she's truly in love with you. I've just been around longer than Tyler has, you know? So we go way back. Yeah. I think Rochelle would have preferred you to just sit on this couch and talk and have Rochelle ask you questions. And I could have not have showed up. Can I ask you this? Who do you think the next bachelor should be? Who do you want it to be? I don't really have an opinion. I'm fine with Peter. Has he been announced yet? I don't think so. No, next week I think they're announcing it. But that seems to be the rumor.

I know. I mean, listen, we all know and hope that at some point the show has its first person of color as The Bachelor. And I hope it happens soon. I think the show seems to know what they're doing. I've never met Mike in person, so i don't know i've never met mike in person so i don't i don't know how he would be how you've met him i see that argument we made often how the bachelor needs to have a person of color as the lead and i do agree with it but i

don't think that being a person of color of color catapults you to the top of the order for i would agree and again i've never met mike in person what I hear, he's a really nice guy, but maybe not a good fit for what is required of that role. And as you said, the producers, they all know exactly what they're doing more than anyone else.

Yeah, to reinforce that point, I just don't think that if the number one reason we want you to be The Bachelor is because you're black, then that's not a good enough reason for you to be the bachelor. Yeah. But I feel like that's,

we know that too. And I, again, I hope the show continues to put forth maximum effort to have their first person of color as the bachelor. And if Mike is the bachelor, I support it and it's great. And I assume that will be because the,

to your point, the show thinks that, you you know he's ready and he'd be good at it and he you know all the things that come with it it is a tv show you know and it's um you know uh so i'm fine with either i don't have a preference um then you know either way where we uh it won't fix all the problems we have in our country. Oh, and there are plenty. In addition to that, I would just like to remind you guys, if you're listening to this podcast, to also tune in to Help I Suck at Dating. There you go. It's starring me, my good friend Jared, and also Nick's ex-fiancee, Vanessa.

And it's a great podcast. We talk about love. We talk about life. We talk about everything you want to hear about. I'm just going to keep on babbling on about my podcast while I'm still a great podcast. We talk about love. We talk about life. We talk about everything you want to hear about. I'm just going to keep on babbling on about my podcast while I'm still recording this podcast. We're just going to cut it up. Have you ever been on that,

Nick? Oh, nice. But not with Vanessa on it. Uh, not with Vanessa. There was a point where I asked Nick to, Oh no,

I just asked you to promote an episode, but I didn't ask you to come on. I think I did. I mean, do anything. Yes. I to dean how do you swing away how are you liking your essential oils i love my essential oils they make the van smell i love the lavender scent the most release i mean there's lavender in a few of them but the release and yeah and the release helps you sleep it does it helps me sleep and the nice thing about the van is it's such a small space that i don't need much.

And so it just, you know, it completely, it just overtakes me. It makes me feel comfortable. Dean, thanks for coming. Nick, thanks for having me. I love you. I look forward to our many adventures together. I hope that includes traveling and tattoos. Egypt.

We got tattoos in Egypt. Think of all the Instagram pics you could have in Egypt. Rochelle's just projecting how much she wants to go to Egypt with you. No, I think you should. All three of us can go. Yeah, I'll come. I'm grateful to be relevant enough again to be on this podcast with you. No, I really appreciate you as a friend.

And your time, I think, on this season is one i thought was refreshing and i hope more people in the future who go on this show uh take a page out of your playbook of just being their truest self uh and not try to worry too much about how that might come across for better or worse right because no matter how it comes across it's you yeah so there's no point in trying to pretend to be anyone else um thank you again for having me i love you as always and that's all i got awesome well once again guys thanks for listening it's been fun uh we will see you next monday for another episode of ask nick until then don't forget to rate us five stars. Make sure to follow Dean Unglick on Instagram and check him out at help. I suck at dating. It's been another great week,

guys. Thanks for listening. Take care. Bye-bye.