The Viall Files - E422 Bachelor Drama, Office Hour Texts & Sex Toys with Cathy Kelley

Episode Date: May 17, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor Gossip Edition! Today we are joined by fan favorite, Cathy Kelley. We first dive into the breaking drama of Blake dropping Bachelor production secrets that he believes no one knows, talking about the Bachelor Official Podcasts and how he believes podcast hosts appearing on the beach get a special advantage. Blake brings in other members of Bachelor Nation and we debate the intentions behind him, bringing up something that many people already know. We then go to wedding news as we learned that the Bachelorette’s JoJo Fletcher and Jordan Rodgers are married after 6 years of dating. We talk about the lead up, constantly changing the date, and their various wedding outfit changes. We also dive into some rumors about the next season of the Bachelorette, and how a cruise ship may be involved. We dive into Julia Fox’s controversial text about how money and age determines who an abuser is. We then welcome an Office Hours Text caller who asks advice on how to navigate a situation when her crush says she needs time. We talk to her about how you shouldn’t let someone on a test drive more than once. We also get an email from a caller wondering how she can get back her sex toys after a breakup. But after finding out that her ex cheated on her during their relationships, she wonders if she should just cut her losses.  “If you’re doing something to get a reaction from him, don’t do it.”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Go to http://www.BetterHelp.com/ViallFiles to get 10% off your first month. Catalina Crunch:  Go to catalinacrunch.com/VIALL for 15% off your first order—plus FREE shipping. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @cathykelley If you are experiencing domestic violence, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233, or go to thehotline.org. All calls are toll-free and confidential. The hotline is available 24/7 in more than 170 languages. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files freestyle edition i am your host nick joined by ally in studio amanda is wherever the fuck uh abroad at home boston abroad this is fun to say uh our guest you just heard her voice and many of you with could probably guess because she's a friend of the show been on a few times you know her you love her kathy kelly hello excited to be back is back us. And we are more excited to have her. A lot to get into. I did, if you are watching on YouTube, I have an aggressive haircut. And why did you do that, Nicholas?

Boredom mostly. Natalie's out of town. Natalie's gone. I was hanging out with Jeff. And I had an audition. This is a true story. I had an audition for a role where I was playing a military guy. okay and then I was just like I wonder you were inspired I wonder what like what it would look like if I just zero clipped the side of my head and it was one of those things where I was like

and then I made a mistake and I just took it all off how's the back look not great oh yeah I really do think it's the male equivalent to like cutting bangs is to be like i'm gonna shave it really close this time but you know what in two weeks i'll be back to normal bangs don't do that you know a little bit i guess i feel like a process i feel like it's uh yeah i feel like i mean hey i don't know but i feel like if you fuck up on bangs you know i can yeah i can pull this off i think it's more the emotional state that one is in when they decide, like, you know,

like where you're like, I need, I need to switch things up. I need to keep it fresh. I'm going to cut bangs. Like I feel like. The good news is, is no one's really like looked at me all that funny today.

Who have you seen today? I went to the Whole Foods. Oh, okay. I went and then I saw my acting coach. Oh, good. She didn't say anything.

Because you pay her. That's true. When is this military audition happening? You've only seen people you pay, Nick. I have to put it on tape this week. Interesting. What do they think about the tattoos if it's like a military?

I didn't ask. I mean, listen. You think people in the military don't have tattoos? Well, see. In fact, there is a scene in the audition where he's getting a tattoo okay see i knew a lot of the guys i don't know if it's a

furry dog yeah probably not should you give yourself a tattoo while doing the scene should yeah method a lot of the guys i know like went to like service academies like they've been doing this like military since they were like boys so none of them have tattoos okay we'll say listen when i get auditions i just try to give them an audition back that makes them want like feel like oh that wasn't a total waste of my time that's a good goal it's also yeah it's at the bar high well this is for like the leading like i'm almost certain the role they're having me audition for they're going to make an offer to like a very successful actor

and they just happen to have other people reading it and I'm happy to get in front of that casting director to get in front of that casting director

100% but do you think they'll then fill in the smaller roles of people that's always the hope so we'll see Lieutenant Vial

we'll keep you updated we haven't talked to Bachelor in a while and it seems like there has been some drama. There's a little bit of some butting of heads happening between two people I wouldn't have anticipated to butt heads. Shall we dive in?

Why would you not anticipate them not to butt heads? I don't know. I'd never seen them interact. They weren't on the same season of Paradise. I don't know. You didn't see it. In my head, I like blake horseman is dj at festivals and natasha's like running new york city in my mind they don't okay i see what

you're saying there's no reason for them to cross paths yeah okay correct yeah and they're never the detail me yeah but allow me bring our audience up to speed so all of this started um when blake was at stagecoach and some people in bachelor always at stagecoach a tale is all this time end of story so some bachelor in paradise hopefuls some bachelor nation members apparently you know talked to blake about his advice about bachelor in paradise so then he took to his instagram stories to kind of recap the advice he had given to them. What was the advice? And he said, quote, the only advice I gave them was to be careful of the official Bachelor podcast hosts if they are down there. They are ABC employees and will always get a good edit. So don't go against them or date

someone they have their eyes on. I think they should not allow these people on the beach after last season. And I love all those people that went down there. But it's a huge slap in the face for the audience. Like, they think we are that dumb? The audience. I love how his biggest concern is the authenticity of the audience. Does anyone think The Bachelor is a documentary?

Real question. That's a great question. Is that what he's thinking? Like, people think it's not fake? I don't know. It feels like he's alluding to other things without being very specific. Like he's taking jabs of, if you know, you know.

And if you don't, I'm going to still keep that to myself. I actually think he's being earnest about this particular topic. Okay. It's like a gotcha moment. Okay. Where I feel like he's,

revealing something, that he thinks other people, aren't aware of. Which is. That podcast people, get good edits. You know, so just to recap,

we got the happy hour, we got the. Yeah, the official bachelor podcast. Yeah, in those three podcasts, that they work for Warner Brothers, their own,

those podcasts are owned, by Warner Brothers. The producers are owned by Warner Brothers. The producers also work on the show, produce those podcasts. And it behooves them to give them more screen time because then more people would tune into their shows. I mean, that's the theory. Do I think, if you were to ask me,

do people who work on that show who happen to go on Paradise are the beneficiaries of special consideration? Sure. Of course. Yeah. Of course. It's a business at the end of the day.

Exactly. I mean, that's the thing that I'm failing to understand is my, my biggest response to this is I don't really understand why, why Blake continues to like call this stuff out because it's not the first time he has done this i understand he has some frustrations with uh the show but i i just don't really under i mean i assume he's doing it for clickbait or you know he always gets he always gets attention not the podcast his for his i think he said it on did he say it on instagram or his podcast this was on his instagram story and then he does always get press when he then continued it because game of roses um which is not one of the official podcasts but a bachelor podcast um posted on instagram and then he decided to comment on game of roses post post that Natasha was, quote, given a rose by production. To which I'm like, we all saw that. So.

I don't know. Natasha responded. Because she's now been dragged into this by name of someone, you know, who's worked with the franchise and apparently got preferential treatment. So then Natasha took to her own Instagram stories and said, I do not agree with what Blake said because my situation specifically, and yes, I am sensitive about it because it happened to me. So by saying that I'm going to get a good edit because I have a podcast clickbait, you could get a bad edit if you mess with me. And

to be careful of me, you're basically villainizing me because I have a podcast instead of holding the toxic people accountable. That's where I have a problem. No, if you're taking what Blake is saying and you're rallying behind it, you're basically excusing toxic behavior. I was not toxic on the beach. Joe was not toxic in his relationship on the beach. Becca wasn't toxic in her relationship on the beach. I'm not trying to speak for them. I'm trying to speak about my situation specifically. But if you're going to warn someone about someone, why not warn them about the toxic behaviors that people can have? Oh, because you yourself had toxic behavior on the beach when you were there. Ooh.

I got a question for you, Cassie. Yeah. What is your lasting impression of Blake from his time on Paradise? I mean, if I could sum it up in three words. Just like what you think the average audience thinks. Stagecoach, stagecoach, stagecoach. I don't know. I mean, like he's, I don't have anything really ill to say against him. I feel like he was very young and maybe hadn't developed a full emotional intelligence at the point that he went into this situation.

at the point that he went into this situation. Like we've talked about on past episodes, he had a very great edit leaving The Bachelorette and then went into Paradise thinking that that would carry over. Yep. And there were things that weren't filmed in between those two shows that made him not just come off really bad,

but were really bad. Yeah. My lasting impression, and what I think is generally like that made him not just come off really bad, but were really bad. Yeah. My lasting impression, and what I think is generally like Batch donations, the people who watched his Paradise season a few years ago, is that he's a fuckboy. Yeah.

It's not a bad thing. I guess if you have a problem with fuckboys, but a lot of people are fuckboys these days. It's just a general term. And to your point, yes, he got what I referred and have told him that he got the Ben Higgins edit. And he had no problem with the Ben Higgins edit. In fact, he capitalized on the Ben Higgins edit. I've seen the man in action.

And good for him. He wanted to go and enjoy his fame that he got. And the man had a lot of sex good for him but he came down and went on the beach and he wanted to believe he wanted everyone he when he got back on the beach it was like nope i'm back in i'm i'm ben higgins again um i'm coming down and i'm gonna be the star of the beach and i'm gonna be the the sweet and thoughtful guy. And he got exposed as being a fuck boy. I have no doubt that Blake feels like when he watched his season, he saw things that he thought to himself, I didn't say it like that. That's out of context.

I didn't say that at all. That's not fair. And I feel like he felt misrepresented. I have, I'm sure that happened. But he is focused on that aspect and he refuses to take any accountability for his overall persona that he now has. And to Natasha's point, again, do I think Bachelor people who work for that podcast are the beneficiaries of some

favoritism i'm sure they are but make one thing clear that everyone who goes on that show is as far as the show is concerned is expendable and replaceable like they've been on the air for 20 some years and before social media came out we we were all it was just just bring them on 60 new people every year they come they go short shelf lives and social media has allowed us to some of us to extend that use the platforms we get from the show and make our own thing yeah right and which is also what he's doing as well with djing exactly so the guy's having some success djing so i and wasn't he wasn't he also part of one of the podcasts where he was doing their live events Exactly. So the guy's having some success DJing. So why not focus on that? And wasn't he also part of one of the podcasts where he was doing their live events as well?

I don't know. I'm sure he's done some stuff with them. I'm not entirely sure. Here's what I don't get as far as not just Blake in general, but I feel like everyone who goes on this show at some point or another, and you've met a lot of us, has suffered from main character syndrome. We all have. I'm sure I've been there. Everyone who goes on reality TV does. It's something everyone in the franchise experiences, especially people who aren't the leads,

especially people who have a little bit of time. Everyone who goes on the show gets a following. Everyone who has a following has fans. They're all up there in their comments being like, you're the best. You should have been the lead. You should have been the bachelor. You should have been the bachelorette. It's so easy for them to believe. And when things don't go the way they want, so many of them will just like decide to, you know, never look at what they did or humble themselves to realize there's 60 new cast members every year and it's just like i don't really get it also to natasha's point natasha got done with paradise now and i ran into her in new york and i remember running into

her and i asked like hey so how'd it go and she was i she was like mortified she was like it did not go well she was really worried i'm like really like what you want to tell me about it and she essentially explained what happened which is she felt a ton of embarrassment a lot of shame and foolishness around the fact that she felt played by Brandon and how she really liked him. And she was worried that she was going to look dumb. And she was worried that she was going to look like a fool. And I kind of laughed at her. And I was like, Natasha, if what you're telling me is true, not only do you have nothing to worry about, you are going to be the star. And advice I often give people who come to me and ask for advice, I will tell them, one thing to consider is when you're filming the show, if you're in some sort of disagreement or if you feel right, if you feel correct, if you feel like you're 100% right, you're fucked. And if you feel foolish, you're in good shape. Yeah. Because this show is about exposing your vulnerability and all the people who are sure of themselves and confident.

You have no idea how it's going to be edited. And so, yeah, Natasha was sincerely upset. And to that point, it's like, do they get some special favoritism? Probably. Yeah. Right? But like, they're all expendable. They have replaced people on these podcasts already.

Oh, all the time. And if someone were to go down who works for these podcasts and act a fool and do what, say, Blake did on his season or Brandon did on his season, they would show that. They wouldn't protect that person. Yeah. That show, you really think the people, first of all, the people who edit that show have nothing to do with the podcast. They don't give a fuck about the podcast. And do you really think the franchise is going to change a compelling storyline just because of their podcast they started a couple years ago?

No. They would just get rid of that person. It's kind of absurd. it's kind of absurd did natasha working for this podcast have anything to do with what brandon did to natasha whispering to piper and saying all the things about how he was playing her and using her and all these things that we you know saw and made us think brandon's just a fuck boy and do you know why they probably gave natasha rose it's not because she worked on a podcast because these producers have a job and they're trying to tell a story. They are trying to make a good TV show. And they're also trying to have people find love. And if they can do both, great. And yeah, they probably brought

out a rose because you know what Natasha was? A compelling storyline. She was a relatable character to a situation that many people who are watching The Bachelor were going to relate to. Someone who felt like they were getting used by a fuckboy. It would be completely different if there was some sort of monetary prize at the end of this entire experience or, you know, some more, I don't know, something to win. But there wasn't. It was, you know, like they choose any single lead of the Bachelor or Bachelorette franchise. They just wanted to keep her on because the audience liked her. Yeah. She's a, she's a compelling, good, she's a star. Life can be overwhelming. Sometimes we feel fatigued. We have lack of motivation and we feel helplessness. And maybe that's just because we

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generally in this world when things don't go their way. There are people who just try to look how it's not their fault and then there are people that even if there's things that they felt like they were wrong by, all they will do is try to look at

what could I have done differently? Even if I felt fucked over, even if I was fucked will do is try to look at how could i what could i have i done differently even if even if i felt fucked over even i was fucked over how can i look at the situation and this may be next time in a similar situation approach it differently so that i can learn and i hate it too because like the producers you know they do things that piss you off and i'm not someone who's been the beneficiary of like great edits the whole time in fact most of the time it's been quite the opposite i have my frustrations with the show i really do and and every time they ask me to do something there's always this like i'm always like asking a bunch of questions and and and checking in to make sure like i don't know you know i'm not sure if i totally you know i'm

on board with what you guys want to do i don don't know if I like, I don't have unconditional trust with them. Yeah. But I make these choices. And again, when things didn't go my way, did I get frustrated with them? Sure. The behind closed door events, but I made my choices, I accepted them.

And then I just tried to figure out what I can learn from. It's just like ridiculous that these people who have no problem reaping all the benefits they have you know when they sign these contracts they all sign it thinking i'm never going to be the villain i can't be the villain there's no way i could be the villain i feel like 90 of people think that they're going to be the next lead that's yeah going into the main character syndrome which is like i'm a star i'm gonna i'm gonna you know going to, you know, and I get it, but it's just like, it's frustrating when they constantly make excuses and start throwing their peers under the bus. And I hear all these stories. For example, I know of a person who a couple of years back when I'm a show, did some shit recorded was going to be real embarrassing for them so what'd they do called the show

threatened to hurt themselves some serious allegations that they threw the producers with show took it seriously edited it out next season begged to go on the show the show's like no we're not going to have you on the show it's a liability at that point that person started like screenshotting like fan responses of you know we want this person on the show and sent it to producers and told them that it said that they should reconsider because their fans want them on the show. The same person who was beside themselves and made threats about like, you know, serious threat. I mean, I don't know if it was serious. I just know they said it. Yeah.

Got their way and then begged to come on the show. I had another person call me up one time for advice. And I always try to just give honest advice. I just try to shoot them straight. Here's what you can do. Here's what you can control. Here's what you can't control. I also try to just be honest with them about this world. And one thing I always let them know, it's just like, listen, you do have to get lucky sometimes. there's it's so competitive and i said to them you know yeah i've done this and i've done that but just remember like i did get lucky too and i only say that as like uh you know just you had a job before this you can you can benefit you can do both like maybe you don't have to like i'm not telling you to do i'm not telling you what to do but like don't lose yourself in this yeah and i said to them i said to them uh i you know

i've been lucky too and this person like before i finished like laughs and goes fuck yeah you did and it was just like so obvious to me in that moment that that's all they heard that was their takeaway of the conversation was that like i got lucky because they they didn't think that it doesn't matter what they thought it was just like you could tell that this main character syndrome really affected this person and it's just like it just gets annoying when everyone who goes in the show acts like they should be the star of the show they got fucked That is a product of people going from very normal lives to being catapulted into this level of quote unquote stardom because there are hundreds having so many people that you don't know comment on your life, whether that's good or bad. And the negative, if you read into any of them, the negative will be super negative and make you question your entire existence. And the positive will really go to your head. Yeah. Many of my peers will talk about like, like this is supposed

to be a documentary or the Truman Show and just be like, oh, well the production gave him a rose. It's like, it is a TV show.

And yes, the show's about finding love. They would like for people to find love. The producers, it changed during JoJo's season of The Bachelor is that once,

like it was a shift. From all the producers, they noticed that all of a sudden, the whole cast was like, they were all there for followers. They were all there to be famous. They started creating all this content. That's all they were talking about. From that point forward, I think all the producers were just like, everyone's full of shit.

We hope that some people want to fall in love, but they don't take, quite honestly, anyone seriously, nor probably should they. Yeah. I remember being with a couple of castmates and you, and they were fresh off of their season and talking amongst themselves about how upset they were that they only had a couple hundred thousand followers versus some of these new reality dating shows that came off of Netflix where they had millions of followers. And that being their initial response of how the season played out was the worst thing that could have happened to them. Yeah, and honestly, it's fine that they do that,

but don't act like producers are all these bad people who are like like the disingenuousness of the fake friendships goes both ways between cast and producers you know they always like oh the producers will pretend to be your friend and when they don't need you they like stop calling you it's like you don't give a shit about them either you just want to be on their show yeah and it's like it's fine but just say that and stop acting like you are somehow like being treated why is it supposed to be fair it's a multi-million dollar business it's a reality tv show it's that's you know that they all say they want to find love none of them really give a shit about that and now they're they're worried about fairness and then they throw i'm just like i don't get it yeah well speaking of jojo season should we switch

to some more positive news yeah sure all right you have my clicker oh They got married! JoJo and Jordan got married six years after they got engaged, three years after he re-proposed with his own ring so that it was just between them and not the show. And I believe this is their second or third wedding date because of COVID, so it's definitely been a long time coming. JoJo said she picked out her dress in 2019, I believe, and always thought that because it kept getting pushed, she would find something she liked more. But this is her original dress

because she said she still was in love with it. So we have some first looks and photos. But something that they said before the wedding even happened was that they were each going to do a wardrobe change before the reception, which I thought was interesting because I've seen women do, you know, two dresses, something more casual wardrobe change before the reception which i thought was interesting because i've seen women do you know two dresses something more casual or comfortable for the reception but i was intrigued by nick you're a fashionista yourself what what wardrobe change jordan might have had up his sleeve like as a guy because i feel like the tux is such a classic look i feel like the wardrobe change is done by the brides because like for example that that dress looks like it might be a challenge to walk or dance and so like great for photos maybe

not great for dancing and so like the weddings i've been to it seems like if there is a wardrobe change the bride changes into a more flexible outfit so So I don't know. All being said, do those look like comfortable shoes for him? Maybe he changed into some sneakers? Listen, no shame. I mean, I'd wear a,

give me a different colored suede. Well, so that's the thing. Cocktail jacket? Jordan's on Jordan. There you go. I heard that it had to do with a color change.

So that's why I was intrigued. I was like, maybe we got like a white jacket. Maybe there was like a green. One of their wedding colors was like a sage green. So I was like, maybe like we got a green number. Mix it up. So I guess we'll see when we get the reception photos. Oh, we don't get to know?

Well, I haven't seen any. Cliffhanger. I know. We can just imagine. But they got married in a winery in California on Saturday. Good for them. Good for them. Congratulations.

Congrats. And JoJo said, I am marrying my best friend, which she said she knows sounds cheesy, but it was true, which I thought was cute. And I think anyone who has witnessed their relationship can tell that they are genuine. Especially on her season. Like, I definitely have my doubts about him and the way, like, she talked about on the show. Because, I mean, I think throughout her season, she was like have my doubts about him and the way like she talked about on the show. Cause I mean,

I think throughout her season she was like, is he just a fuck boy? Is he just like the type I always go for? Well, it took her six years to confirm. Now they're, now I think they confirm shortly after their season. I feel like she was also on the younger side when she was the bachelorette.

25. Yeah. Uh, do we think Aaron went? That's the question. Aaron Rogers, Jordan's brother. I thought they were estranged. Yeah. Do we think Aaron went? That's the question. Aaron Rodgers, Jordan's brother. I thought they were estranged. Yeah, but I think people wondered.

I don't think he went. I think he would have hurt. Yeah. That would have been a hard... Someone would have snuck a photo. I feel like NFL, Bachelor Nation combined, you really... All eyes.

It's hard to... That kind of makes me sad, though. I understand being estranged. I don't get it. I don't really understand, but it's like siblings. He of makes me sad though like i understand being estranged and i i don't get it i don't really understand but it's like siblings it's a diehard packer fan you know definitely team erin but at the same time he's a complicated fellow i don't understand how you don't talk to your family i mean i i have some estrangements in my family and it's really unfortunate but at least i don't have to see them on TV every week. Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I know what it's like to be frustrated at siblings and be mad and maybe take some breaks

but not show up at their wedding. That's a tough one. Anyway, what else we got? Well, Gabby and Rachel's duo season is officially wrapped. We know that because Jesse Palmer posted that he was reunited with his dog. And so there's like

still these questions. Do we think it was on a cruise ship? I don't know if you saw those things that I saw the rumors. Yeah. Like the whole season.

Well, that was what people were thinking. It's maybe they did first night or maybe like first couple weeks at the mansion because we did see photos of them at the

mansion on night one in their dresses. But then we saw this photo of them with like a, basically this blurred out blue in the background that could have been like a cruise ship deck. And then we saw leaked photos of hometown dates. So I'm wondering, do we think that middle chunk, like for a few weeks was aboard a ship?

Maybe. How do you walk someone out on a cruise ship? The plank. That's a good question just secluded in one of the tiny rooms thinking about all of them an interior cabin well i mean the reality is no one ever goes home when they go home they go to their hotel and sit there most of if depending on when you leave in the season you would you know i would go home the next day but now now now people really know yeah that they don't if it is on a cruise ship because clearly you know they're a sea you could go to a port drop them off at a nearby port that's what i was thinking yeah they would

dock somewhere and then send them off sure but i mean at some point they're gonna have like an unceremonious goodbye that's like in the middle of a date right where in other seasons you'd have a car that's like randomly show up yeah it's one of those lifeboats a little one going off that's what they'll do that's they'll like make them like get in now that's what they'll do it'll be some sort of like you know helicopter or some crazy shit that they don't get the helicopter. They get the inflatable life raft. Someone will get sent off on a raft and it'll make it seem like they're like, you know, and cast Tom Hanks and cast away and have like a Wilson next to them. We'll see.

We'll see if they're still friends. Yeah. Gabby. We saw that one photo of them looking very passionate in a moment. So we'll see if that was a good passion or bad passion. And we still know nothing about formatting.

I was told, I think I mentioned this, that they're both going to have their own seasons. My understanding is after night one, they'll get to pick their guys and those are the guys that they will date. It won't be a lot of crossover, but that's what I heard.

I don't know how much. And knowing them, they can change things very quickly. Yeah. Do you think we'll get more episodes then? Because if we're having that many dates, and if it still follows the same format but with two at a time, or we'll just get less in-depth dates? I don't know. Let medepth dates i don't know i don't know

they'll they'll they'll both be screwed over for time that's the downside of having two bachelorettes uh let's get to the uh julia fox tweet so we've been covering obviously the amber her and johnny depp trial uh which they took a week off. And I hope for the people listening that what we're trying to do on this show is just try to be as objective as possible and have experts in to give expert opinions, even though we will have multiple experts who might even also have a difference of opinion.

And listen, we're dealing with A-list celebrities. There's fandom. And listen, if you're a fan of these people, I get it. Well, I don't get it, but to each their own. And we're not trying to partake in the fandom of it all because that can lose objectivity. And this is still, while fascinating, a very sensitive topic that's covering domestic abuse.

And Julia Fox had a comment that I thought was... She does not agree with how you feel on this issue. Concerning. You know, we want to, you know, we have a lot of empathy on this show for anyone who's ever, or who is a domestic violence survivor, or who's currently going through it. And we have a ton of empathy for anyone who might be watching this trial closely with some fear of what it might mean that people aren't believing Amber Heard and what that might be mean for people to believe them totally

understand. Cause that is a justifiable fear that I think a lot of people have. That being said, I feel like comments like these i don't know if that's where this is coming from from julia fox but like it is a wild statement you want to go ahead and read it for yeah so julia fox commented on this post regarding the trial and you know amber heard and julia fox said she referring to amber never had the power in the relationship to be abusive to him did she hit him yes was it abuse no you need to have the power to be abusive she

was 25 he clearly was always way more powerful including physically and financially so i found this interesting nick sent this and it was interesting to me that she she doesn't negate the fact that amber hit johnny she's not negating the fact that there was violence she's saying there's a difference between hitting and abuse and it can only be abuse if someone has the power and because she was younger and didn't have as much money she did not have the power yeah i mean there's so many am i interpreting that right problematic things with this this comment i mean for one it's like it's like she watched a tiktok about someone talking about a power dynamic in relationship

and then the tiktok they referenced finances and maybe an age gap to be examples that could play a role into a power dynamic but i hope we are all aware that like when it comes to like a power dynamic in a relationship there could be literally hundreds of reasons of why someone might have power in a relationship that power can drastically change and shift over time your mental health uh intelligence can play a role. Maybe someone's suffering from addiction and they are struggling to overcome that. And that a person who's maybe healthy and not could have a significant power over them.

But just as like decide that like no matter what, like these black and white statements, like as if you happen to be older or if you happen to have more money and therefore you immediately have power in the relationship and therefore apparently according to her to your point can't abuse someone regardless if you're hitting them i mean like what the fuck imagine you're reading this and let's say you're in a abusive relationship and you're feeling like you're being abused and you're older than your partner and maybe you have more money than your partner

are are you supposed to read this and think oh well i guess i'm not being abused i'm not being abused yeah well i think that's the hard part too it's like making these blanket statements is always dangerous and then you add in the blue check mark and the following and the notoriety that she has. And it's like, oh no, you realize like you have a platform, right? And it's dangerous to throw stuff up there. And also I want to flag like there's,

I think she meant to say to be abusive, but it's like abuse it. There's a typo there. There's a typo, which I mean happens to all of us, but it makes me think this wasn't. like she was on her way to spin class yeah she decided like this wasn't this wasn't like in her notes app being like edited to perfection it strikes me as maybe just like in the moment but that's the thing it's just like in the a lot of people agreed with it i mean a lot of people saw and thought to themselves this is insane but there are a lot of people who got behind this

and like that's incredibly dangerous i mean i guess the people there's 677 likes to the person who agreed with it and 51 likes to julia fox who negated it no i understand that but there still were plenty there there was an article about it saying how the internet is torn between her comment. I mean, and there's plenty of people who are agreeing with it. And again, I get that there is a fear out there of what it might mean to the people who are being abused if most people don't believe Amber. And I recognize that fear and that's a real fear. But this isn't it as far as like a response of talking about power dynamics and how it a real fear. But this isn't it as far as a response of talking about power dynamics and how it relates to abuse. So many crazy, so many wrong things about this comment.

I don't know. And she's like, thanks, I did it myself. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we have learned, the one thing that we have learned is consistent with julia fox as she says things uh for attention sometimes and i i hope that this is not what that was i hope that that was not the intent and it was merely forgetting that she has this level of a platform and she's putting in her two cents but i don't know yeah um but yeah it's uh it's it's well again it's it's it's far more nuanced and complicated than than this simply being like who's got the power in this relationship again power can shift drastically at any moment

it can change because someone's feeling insecure. I mean, I understand like on a higher level, yes, if someone with wealth and money can certainly abuse their power. I mean, I get what she's saying in the sense that like if you have power, you can choose to abuse it. But that doesn't mean if you don't have power, you can't be an abuser in a relationship. And there's a huge distinction between those two things. And it's really disappointing for someone like in her position to put that out. Yeah. And I think it's kind of like using both of those examples of like age. And I think especially finance to like a woman who has a lot of financial means, I think kind of dilutes that point because like, I don't think it's, and that's not to say it's not a role here, but like, I think most of the time when

you're thinking about the way like financial abuse could exist, you're thinking about women who are like in situations where they have like very little financial freedom or like capabilities. And I think we need to be careful. Like she'd be out on the street, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. And I think we need to be like really mindful of like, yes, there's's in some ways that this trial like we can take concepts from it and apply it to our own relationships but there's a lot of ways in which like these people are existing in a sphere that is like totally different from ours with like resources that is totally that are totally different from ours yeah um before we get to our texting office hours i do want to say one thing

because we we do want as much as we can to get the information correct. We did critique Amber's comment about having never played the guitar and then talked about a photograph of her playing guitar. I saw something. Again, I don't know if this was true, but I'm only saying that maybe we don't know that that might have been a scene of her from a movie. Got it. So we just want to be careful that we're not spreading information uh misinformation about either amber or johnny and so who knows but we'll get into it more next week when we have uh uh i think we're gonna have a lawyer on to talk about it and there will

certainly be a lot more testimony that's out already she's being cross-examined about i think today it was uh did she actually donate it or did she pledge to donate it and the you know who believes who and things like that all right well let's uh get to our texting office hour shall we how's it going hello what's your name um name? My name is Jessica and I'm 23. How can we help Jessica? So, okay. I've kind of been in this weird limbo with this guy and he's part of my friend group now.

And I'm just trying to figure out how I'm supposed to be communicating with him after we've been talking to each other recently. So, a little bit of backstory. I met him like two years ago, my last two years of college. And basically, he was like my friend and I really liked him. And I was like, I kind of manifested him a little bit. I was like, okay, I don't know this guy, but he's really cute. So I'm going to keep him into like my friend group and stuff like that. And basically after college, I moved to LA and we got closer and then I started talking to him a little bit more, keeping in touch after I moved to LA. And just recently, like two weeks ago,

I kind of dropped the ball on him and told him that I liked him over Snapchat. So, okay. And what'd you say? So I said, we were already kind of having a conversation and I kind of just threw it in there and I was like, okay, so also, um, I do really kind of like you, um, I feel like there's something you should know. And I feel like this is probably a good thing for me to get this off my chest if it wasn't obvious already. And I just want to let you know that. Cause I feel like that's fair for you to know as well. Yeah. We love that you put it out there. Good for you. That was amazing. Okay. Yeah. I'm usually never one to initiate. That was probably

the first time in my life that I had ever initiated anything of that sense ever. But I was just kind of like, it's been a while. I know all my friends know. And after them kind of poking and prodding me, I was like, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. Okay. And what did he say? So he was like, he messaged me and he said, hey, thank you so much for telling me this. I really do appreciate it.

I really do like you. And I find you attractive in a lot of ways. I am just obviously getting out of a really long relationship. He was in a six-year relationship with his ex and we're 23. He's 23 as well. Yeah, yeah. We're the same age.

So it was kind of like he also, he continued and he was like, and I have been in a relationship that I just got out of for a really long time and I'm still super fucked up about that. Who broke up with who, do you know? Yeah, she broke up with him. So this is like a quarter of his life.

Right. I think the fucked up wasn't an excuse. It's believable. No, I mean, I've never been in a six-year relationship, but I've had serious relationships that took many, many months to get over. Yeah. And especially if he's someone that's in your friend group and has any modicum of success or respect for you, he's not going to just jump into something else.

Right. Yeah. And he was kind of like, I mean, I kind of brought him into my friend group, like just it's really recent. So he's kind of getting to know everyone in my friend group. And he wasn't in it before. I had only known him through school. He didn't know me outside of school. So that's all really new. And I feel like that's another element to it is I don't know if he wants to risk the friendship that he now has with everybody because him and his ex had shared their friends and he

doesn't have those guys anymore and stuff like that. And then basically, he just kept saying, he was like, I don't want you to see this as a rejection because I do really like you. I just don't want to hurt you right now because I'm still in this headspace. But I do want to still keep hanging out with you. So what is your specific, what response or text are you needing help with in terms of how to respond? What's your question around? Are you looking to, what are you, it sounds like you've got an answer and you're thinking about

potentially reaching out again or what? Yeah. So I had said like, well, thank you for like being honest with me. I really do appreciate that. And I'm obviously here if you still need to talk to me. And I kind of feel like I regret that because I'm like, I shouldn't have given him the control, I guess like that. But I also was like, well, I can't leave him on red right now because this was like two weeks ago. So basically, I wanted to think if I could message him again about kind of, I don't know, more of a solution because we're in this weird limbo now where I see him like one or two times a week. And so I'm kind of just like, Oh, I'm seeing him all the time. We haven't really

talked about anything since then. We're just kind of hanging out, going to the clubs with our friends, but we still kind of know something and we're not doing anything about it. So I didn't know if I should kind of throw the ball back out there or not. I think you're in an amazing position right now. Okay. I have thoughts. Do you have thoughts? Yeah, I was going to say I really like how he communicated back to you. I think that you also saying that you're still there for him is great

because a lot of great relationships are built off of friendship first. I think that this is an incredible opportunity for you guys to get to know each other even further on this level and see if you would vibe in that way. And it sounds like he was being very respectful in needing to heal from a six year relationship where he was broken up in that situation. And you showed a level of respect in return. So you can be there for him. But yeah. In my head, I was thinking like, oh, like where's the mystery of it all? Like, you know, like two people kind of start liking each other and you're like kind of slow burn. But I feel like I see him too much that like the mystery is kind of dying out a little bit i'm like how do i make him like miss me or how do i miss him or something like that or make him want to see me more if he doesn't have

to work for it because he's seeing me like two times a week so i think you're in an amazing position but it's very like important that like you're you're in a position that many people find themselves in and there's and there's a right way to do it and there's a wrong way to do it. Most people do it the wrong way. Yeah. What you definitely should not do is you should not try to hang out with him one-on-one or think to yourself,

I'll just show him what it's like to be his girlfriend and do boyfriend and girlfriend type stuff and go on dates and walks and hang out and shop and make yourself available in the hopes that he will one day see you and wake up and go, oh my God, I should be with you. Definitely don't do that. But the reason why I think you have such a unique, you're in an amazing position that most people don't find themselves in because most people in your situation like a guy that they're not part of this friend group with. So they feel like they have to do what I just said don't do because like they don't have any other options and that's how they feel, right? But you, he gets to see you all

the time, right? So what I think you should do is just be yourself. You should go out with him and you can flirt with him, but flirt with other people and go out there and live your life and let him see you be this attractive, desirable person to a bunch of other people, right? And yeah, flirt with him, flirt back, build that sexual chemistry between him but never allow him to like get access to like what it's like to be your girlfriend without being your your girlfriend right his girlfriend you know what i'm saying so like yeah i i definitely don't think you should do that now eventually you might get to a situation you're out the club you guys get a little drunk you're feeling it listen and i'm not saying don't

hook up you know you like technically that would be the best way not to go about it but like hey seize the moment right and i told him i i mean i i guess we've talked about it because we're in like general i was like i have no problem just like hooking up i didn't tell him that but like i told my friends that like that is not something that i have an issue with like but i don't know no i see that's weird no i don't think you should tell him that right i don't think you should propose that to him and make that an option for him to consider right because that will just be like oh great i mean free sex and we can hang out like i definitely don't need to stop hanging out with other people. I'm just saying, like, if you happen to go out and there's a moment and it feels like, you know, YOLO, organic, go for it. But if it does happen, if you do hook up, another important, like, you know, moment is don't, like, see that as an opportunity to be like, so what are we?

What's going on? Is this something? You know, you know, you can check in again and tell them exactly how you're feeling in that moment. This was great. I really liked it. Still like you. I'm still open to it, but we can't do this again. You know, but like you're giving him basically a sample, you're giving him a test drive, so to speak. Right. And what if you're going to give him a trial, make sure he puts the credit card in like you're ready to charge him. Yeah. Oh my God. But a lot of people like if you test drive a car and again, not comparing you to a car, but we're going to use an analogy. If you're going to

test drive a car, what do people do? They go to the car lot and someone's like, Hey, can I test drive this car? And you, they drive it around the block. Maybe they'll let them have it for an entire day, maybe a weekend. But after that, you have to give the car back and if you come back in a week they're not really there you can't they're going to be like no you got to buy the car if you want the car you got to buy the car and what a lot of people in your position do is they let them just test drive it for forever for weeks months years sometimes without ever they're just like yeah now i'm still thinking about buying it, but can I keep driving? They'll put 50,000 miles on the car and never want to buy.

Right. So if you can see- So he can like rent it. Yeah. I wouldn't even say rent it. He can test drive it once or twice. If you decide, if there's a moment where, again, organic, I wouldn't ever do like a Netflix and chill. I would never go on a date with him.

I would never even hang out with him one-on-one. I would set that boundary for yourself. I would hang out with him in a group and be flirty and be fun. I would keep dating other people. I would definitely flirt with a bunch of dudes around him for sure. I wouldn't do it out of jealousy or spite. I would do it if it's organic as well yeah just be open to it this see yourself as incredibly single and when you're hanging out

with him i definitely wouldn't just like don't give him much of attention if he talks you talk back to kathy's point just try as much as you can just treat him like the friend that he is and reserve the desire to hang out with him more for something that he's going to have to like show you that he wants to do yeah you put yourself out there he's not ready that's fine that was a valid excuse right so if he wants to like have more of you he's just going to have to be ready for it and and so now if he does like say hey you know this is great then you have an opportunity now to be like, hey, I just want to make sure you're ready because I know you went through a lot.

And that way you're never making it seem like you're waiting around for him or that he can have some of you and not all of you. And so you're in total control here if you want. You have all the power if you want. It's just a matter of are you going to keep it or you're going to give it away? I feel like he like in my head, I'm thinking, OK, he's the one in control because I'm kind of the one not not wanting to wait on him, but I am the one waiting on him. You know what I mean? Like kind of like the balls in his court kind of thing. So I feel like I'm losing that a little. No, I think that you shift that mentality of people tell you exactly

who they are up front. He told you that he is fucked up right now. Do you want to date someone that's fucked up? No. You want to date someone who's ready. So you wait until he's ready and you say, you know what? I really like you. I like a lot of qualities that you have. I think that we could potentially be great together, but I don't want to date someone who's not ready for that. I want someone who's fully healed and ready for a serious relationship because that's what I want. I also think it's huge that he went out of his way to include the line of like, please don't take this as me rejecting you because you never want to reject someone more than once. So if he had wanted to close the door on that, he never would have set himself up or made it ambiguous in that way. Quite the opposite. He went out of his way to make

sure that you knew that this was like, was vibing he was feeling it so even though it's like scary to be the one who put themselves out there like i think it's also cool to remember that like he totally clocked that and wanted to make sure that you got the right idea from his response right okay yeah yeah i get that for sure also to kathy's point is that while you hang out with him in a group setting because we're not hanging out with him one-on-one, you get to observe him and you get to watch him and you get to know him better. This is advice I gave to Allie a couple of weeks ago when she was excited to get a second date with someone and, and, and she was like, Oh, I like him.

I'm like, yeah, but you still have a lot to get to know. And then she got the second date and I said, just remember everything he does and doesn't do and things that he show you is you getting to know him. The point is, is that you might like continue to hang out with him and realize that maybe you don't like him anymore. He might reveal himself to be someone that like you can still be friends with, but maybe you won't see him in the way that you see him now.

Just be open to all possibilities. You know, like so many people in your position will just tell themselves, I like you. And then because you your position will just tell themselves, I like you. And then because you will decide, you'll feel rejected by the fact that he didn't accept your proposal to have something more, then you will stop observing him. You'll stop looking at him. You will stop considering how he treats other people. And you'll just be like, I need to get them to like me. And that will be your only focus. So don't do that. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Because I honestly feel like I have

to work on this myself. I know this is a me thing, but I tend to, especially the last couple of times we've hung out after telling him everything have kind of been not ignoring him, but kind of just like, oh, I don't want you to always be thinking about this. And I don't want to always be thinking about this. So I'm not going to dance with you at the club. And I'm going to dance with somebody else. But then I feel like I'm being now mean. And I'm shutting myself off, which I shouldn't be doing.

You like him. So it's going to be tough to try to figure out, am I playing hard to get? Or am I being... That's a challenge because you do like him. But as much as you can, just try to be present, enjoy the moment. And like Kathy said, have it be organic. If you're doing something to get a reaction from him, don't do it. But if there is a guy who you like, or you think is cute, or you think is fun, or who just asks you to dance, say yes to all those things, right? Don't be afraid to do those things out of fear.

He's going to get mad or won't like you or anything like so many people in your position would do. So like kind of do the opposite of all, all of our instincts tell us the wrong things. Well, I don't want him to think that I don't like him. You're overthinking everything. Yeah, you're overthinking. I'm just going to sit there

and I'll focus all my attention on him. And then he just gets annoyed. So just have fun. Enjoy your friends. Flirt with him. Build that sexual tension. I would also say that is counterintuitive and a very human instinct is when we think that someone doesn't like us, when we feel we could potentially be hurt by someone, we shy away from them instead of being normal around them. And I think that what you want to do is be in front of him all the time.

You want to spend more time with him. So I think that don't shy away. Try to, you know, while you are in group environments, get to know him more, be next to him, maybe give him a compliment and then go and talk to someone else. Whatever that is, but be bold like you were in the initial message of saying that you liked him and then continue to be you of, you know, tell him the traits that you do like about him or like, hey, you look really good. I really like that t-shirt or whatever that is because people are naturally inclined to be around people that make them feel good. Yeah. And there's nothing more attractive than knowing someone like put themselves out there, especially like to you, whoever you is, and then get rejected, quote unquote,

and seem fine and unbothered by it. Like he knows he turns you down, right? And to see you out with friends, having fun and being cool with him and being kind of indifferent, like it will look attractive to him without question. I honestly think in your situation, it'd be kind of cool. Again, if you still like them to just in the nicest possible way, say, Hey, I still, I'm still into you. I still like you. And I only hang out with people one-on-one that I like in these situations. And meanwhile, you're going to be, cause we trust you super chill and super fun with him in group settings. So like, you're going to like, you're going to like confuse him in the best possible way because you're going to be so chill and cool about it. Right. But like, you're going to hit them with this boundary, but like, Oh no, no,

don't confuse my cool chillness with like me, not respecting the boundary i'm going to set i just don't do that with with guys and just you know i still like you i'm still going to put myself out there i know you're not ready it's cool but my feelings and my interest hasn't changed in you and just you can hit them with a compliment so you're turning them down by letting them know that you're still into them but yeah i, am I cool? Am I still dating other people? Sure. I can do that because I know I'm going to be fine either way. Right now, it's about just showing him that you're fine and you're desired by a lot of people and you can be cool and chill and fun and then show him how cool you are to hang out with in a group setting because now he can see you and get to

know you more. And as he heals, continue to see you is a great option if he wants to be in a relationship and do that. And again, you still be open to the possibility that you're going to get to know him. He's going to get to know you. What a great opportunity to do that without any stakes, so to speak. Wait, just quickly to clarify just to because like you know obviously we have like the don't be the cool chick rhetoric of like chill girl because i think some people interpret chill in kind of like a negative way but like i know nick you mean it like differently like you mean it in more like what can like you elaborate on like what you mean by like being chill in this scenario i mean mean, yeah. I don't mean, well, people, I think to your point,

confuse chill with agreeable and available. Like I'm clearly not telling you to do that, right? Chill in the sense that you are fine being disappointed. You're like, you're going to be okay. You're not going to act weird around him. You're not going to avoid him. You're not going to throw things in his face. You're not going to state your boundaries. You're going to just state your boundary and and be like okay

and then keep hanging out with him and you can and do all the things a single person would do because you're still single with him or with other guys i kind of like and this might be a outdated analogy but uh you remember those old-timey movies where the woman would like throw the handkerchief and the guy would come up and pick it up. You threw the handkerchief out and now it is his turn to pick it up. So he knows that you like him and I think that that is out there. You continue hanging out as you did before and I mean this is almost a cliche at this point but if someone wants to date you you will know yeah if he is ready to date you you will know when he is ready and to okay keep using kathy's analogy what you don't want to do is like go pick up that

handkerchief and like throw it in his face again put a it a little closer. And be like, no, it's still there. Hey, did you see that handkerchief? It's right by your foot, that one. You want to pick it back up, put it in your pocket and make him wonder if it's still there. If you're still willing to wave it. That's a great analogy and that should be your frame of mind.

Keep them guessing. Yeah. No, this is really nice because I feel like i over complicated this in my head and i was like maybe it's not that complicated like maybe maybe it's not that big a deal that he's in my friend group maybe it's not that big a deal but i think it's an amazing thing and a unique opportunity just a matter it depends on how you approach it okay so you don't think i should text uh i think i don't think you need to reach out to say anything more that's been said on a one-on-one basis and i think if he reaches out you can respond especially if he reaches you know he's like hey the group's getting together yeah and be like cool you know um but if he just if he like all of a sudden you get a you up

like definitely nah yeah okay all right i'll work on that for sure yeah all right all right thank you guys thanks so much this is so helpful this is great. Bye. Bye. Bye. All right. We got, we got one more. We got, uh, uh, someone sent in an email.

They didn't want to call in, but it's, it's good. My boyfriend of a year and I broke up a week ago. We left things amicable, but I had recently found out some things within the past week that he doesn't know. I know he had been cheating on me the whole time and basically had an entire other girlfriend. I am wanting to do no contact, but one thing is really bothering me. He still has all of our sex toys at his house. It's a basket of them that cost me around $200.

I got them all for us this past Valentine's Day. I want them back because for one, I spent a lot of money on them, and for two, it makes me feel gross knowing he has them. We have used them and I don't want him using them with another girl. How do I go about asking for them back? I was going to maybe wait for him to text me first and ask then, but who knows when that might be, if at all. I'm also worried that if I do text him for them, it's going to just look like a way for me to try to see him and I don't want to give off that vibe at all. Please help. Thanks.

I mean, I think no contact rule only applies if you want to get back together with the person. I would not want to get back together with someone who cheated on me. But do you really think that it's about the sex toys? Ah, no. I agree with you. that it's above the sex toys. Ah. No. I agree with you.

I actually, I agree with you that she wants to reach out. And I think... If I found out that a partner that I was with post-mortem, post us breaking up, if I found out

a couple weeks, months, whatever from then, that point that he had been cheating on me, there are things that I would want to say. Exactly. And I think she, that's the thing. It sounds like she feels like she wants to present

is like she's unbothered. She doesn't care. She doesn't want to. And to your point, listen, it's over. Yeah. It should be over. He's done. He's a whole different person.

So if you have some things you have to get out, get it out. And maybe it's through a text or a letter or an email or face to face, however you want. Yeah. But feel free to tell him what you think. Yeah. Knowing that you're just, you're doing it to get it off your chest. As far as the sex toys go, I don't really think it's about the sex toys. No. She's like, I don't want him to use it with someone else. As far as the sex toys go, I don't really think it's about the sex toys. No.

She's like, I don't want him to use it with someone else, which I totally hear. But also, if you've just written that he was cheating on you the entire time and basically had another girlfriend, what makes her think they haven't already been used? She's like, I know that those are good sex toys. I don't want him to be happy.

Kind of. But she could have had a toy that was like, someone else's germs. Yeah. I don't. It's possible. It's already been used. More likely he got rid of them.

I doubt that. First of all. You think he would have gotten rid of them? I don't know. But you know how I've had've had ex girlfriends yes and and those ex-girlfriends have given me i don't know like gifts i've watched and in my i've had plenty of current girlfriends not my current girlfriend but at the time when i was dating a new girlfriend they would get mad that i was wearing a watch or let's say a necklace. And so you're dating this guy and he busts out a sex toy.

That's already opened. No, basket. Like he pulled out a basket. And you're not asking, where's this from? Or where'd you get that? You're not curious about why this guy has an assortment of sex toys. You know, he's been using them on other people.

If you don't buy them together as like a conscious, if it is not a gift sealed and wrapped, there is always going to be a question in my mind. I don't even use bathtubs. If I don't know who's been in there before, like that's not coming anywhere near me. That's what I'm saying. So let's,

let's say, so a, I think he's not getting away with this. And if he is using it, I know she's hurting right now and it sounds gross, but she's winning. If her ex-boyfriend is using their old sex toys, I would be mortified if I was this new girl. I'm just going to say this guy is is clearly if he had a full other relationship while he was in a relationship with her is very deceptive so maybe he has conned this other girl into thinking that he got these sex toys specifically for her as well it's possible but yes but the bigger picture is i don't think she needs to feel our writer. Yes.

She's not, even if they are currently using it, that's a win for her. That's a feather in her cap. Yeah, and you don't want those back. I don't think he'd want them back for any reason. It's just going to remind you of him, even if no one else has touched them. Could you imagine if- Wouldn't you just throw them away at that point?

But then why does she need them back to- Why does she need them back now? Throw them away herself. I think it really does she need the back to throw them away herself i i think it really comes down to she found this out i can only imagine what she's feeling she must be hurting and feeling foolish and vulnerable and and the sex toys are probably the first thing that came to mind and it's and and she probably to kathy's point wants to say something and feels like maybe she shouldn't like give him the satisfaction and i think kathy and i agree fuck his satisfaction gives a shit yeah you have something to say fucking get it off your chest and let him say it and just be done like you know we we don't want

her to like reach out and hope and and try to like salvage this very broken relationship no but like get your closure yeah speak your piece but i i wouldn't if i were her bring up the sex toys i would just take the loss hopefully the favorite toy is still being made like hope it's not like a an exclusive like a limited edition yeah i mean listen it's 200 and and $200 is a good amount of money, but I would assume you can buy this, and if it's something that she's just like, you know what I'm saying? If she's like, I want it back because of my reverse toy.

I'm pretty sure, I mean, she seems very eloquent. She seems adventurous. I feel like she could easily date someone else and convince them to buy one for her. 100%. That's a good idea. That's a good idea too. Sex toy sugar daddy.

And I think whatever insecurity she's feeling or fears or ideas that she's planting in her head about this new girl and maybe they're using it, it's like, I mean, could you imagine? Sloppy seconds yeah that's the sloppy seconds of all seconds could you imagine being able to like your your boyfriend cheats on you yeah and and you're her yeah and then down the road you were able to tell some other girl did you know that you used our sex toys i i wouldn't that would be embarrassing for me that would be

embarrassing for her that's what I'm saying. Imagine you were the other girl. Could you imagine feeling like you just met this nice guy and you're hooking up and he has some sex toys and you found out it was some other woman was using them? Thank you.

I would feel violated. So, yeah. I think she has nothing to worry about. I mean, that's her revenge. She should hope they're using him. That whole no contact rule, though, really got me, though, because I feel like that is specifically used when you want to get back together with someone.

Yeah. Yeah. Can you, like, Clorox wipe a sex toy? Are you not supposed to get Clorox near your hoo-ha? I'm sure you can disinfect it. How do you go to a sex shop? Like they'll have like whatever care products are needed. The people who always work there.

Vaginally safe disinfectant. I'm confident that it's not about the sex toy. It's about her just being annoyed as fuck and rightfully so. Yeah, for sure. But when you really break it down because the thing is like this isn't even like oh he i found out he went off one night and had like a thing while we were together she literally said basically an entire different girlfriend yeah yeah and so even if that's a month over whatever it's just forget the sex toys speak your piece

like kathy said get whatever you say whatever you want Don't bring up the sex toys because if you do, he actually, that's a win for him to like make it about something it's really not about that. Like she would, I think, lose a little bit of her power

in that moment to make it about something she's not. She has all, she holds all of the cards. He's the piece of shit. He cheated on her. So don't like,

don't make it about something that, you know, you can replace. Yeah. And she can replace the sex toys. And if he happens to be using it, I think all the,

all the more power to her because that I would, I would hate to be the other woman. Do you think she knows? We'll never know. Not, not, not any of our problems. I know.

Yeah, she probably, I don't know, who knows? And maybe not. I mean, I uh yeah she probably who knows and maybe not i mean i i know guys who know how to we've had callers who they have like families they didn't know about like yeah i knew a guy i've known some situation i know a guy who like had in like in milwaukee he had like just two full-on girlfriends and then a side girl. I knew people that had wives and like got engaged. There's some weird shitty

guys out there. Breaking out my trust issues? No. That's what our caller or writer should do. Cool, cool. Such a win for her. Yeah. She has to take the loss of the $200, but have the emotional mental win of that basket being there.

There's a lot to gain here, and it's a cost of another $200 if she won. Chances are, everything she bought, there's probably something in that basket she's not using. In my experience, you guys always have one go-to. There's always a favorite, right?

There's always a favorite. So just go replace the favorite. Yeah. You really do just need one good one. Yeah. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure.

You're welcome back anytime. Kathy's part of the fam. I know. It doesn't even really feel like, no offense, it doesn't feel like we even have a guest. I feel like you're just're welcome back anytime. Kathy's part of the fam. I know. It doesn't even really feel like, no offense, it doesn't feel like we even have a guest. I feel like you're just part of the team. I work here now.

We just like walked in together. We're like, sup girl. Tomorrow, Josh Peck is with us. More office hours with Josh. Hopefully you guys like this stuff and a little bit more about Josh's life.

He's got a book coming out. Josh also gives his thoughts on some pop culture stuff and you won't want to miss that. So be sure to tune in. Okay. Bye. you