The Viall Files - E426 Going Deeper w/ Madison Watkins - Kardashian Wedding plus Mattress Cover For Sex.

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined by Singer, Songwriter, and American Idol contestant, Madison Watkins! On this episode we dive into how Madison and Nick met when he was first starting the podcast, the latest on the lavish Italian Kardashian wedding, what our ideal wedding locations would be, and tasteful ways to repurpose your mother’s wedding dress. We also talk about how bringing snacks is a turn-on, giving a friend a shot at a date, and how people need to be more “about it” in dating. We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours caller who needs help navigating between two different situationships. The first guy she’s seeing has been giving her the best sex of her life, but he lives with his parents. Now being forced to buy a waterproof mattress cover and to reconcile with her concerns and questions, our caller wonders how much she should text back this guy that’s “too stupid to fall in love with.” She then asked about another guy she’s known for a long time, who is a mature man that fulfills very different needs. After this guy breaks up with his longtime girlfriend, he reaches out to our caller in a moment of weakness, shaking everything up and retracting once our caller responds.  “I don’t care if you have fun at my wedding.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “ Office Hours” in the subject line!  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Earnest: Get a $100 cash bonus when you visit http://www.Earnest.com/VIALL to refinance your student loan. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @madison_watkins See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So breaking news, a quick programming update. Since next Monday is Memorial Day and I expect all of you to be enjoying the Memorial Day, we're going to push everything this week a day. Ask Nick's will be on Tuesday. Freestyle will be on Wednesday. Going Deep will be on Thursday. And then back to our regular schedule programming the following week. Tuesday is going to feel like a Monday.

You're going to need an ask Nick, is I think the philosophy. And for all the people who are tight with their schedules, we apologize in advance, but whatever you're doing on Memorial Day, we want you to enjoy it, and we'll be with you the rest of the week. You're crazy. going deeper edition you look like you are trying to say something you were like just you had it ready like lined up no topically would you guys consider yourself a bit of a love-hate relationship

oh for sure no no i feel like nick nick has like a nick oh one time i was on a call even looking at me i was on a call with ally i have a million things trying to like go out of my head and you're just more self-conscious about that than i think what one time i was on a call with ally and and it was like one of our like one-on-ones and she goes she goes i don't you yeah you were like we have a love hate i was like oh we do Oh. We do. We 100% do. You have a love-hate. No, I feel like we have... When people are always like,

what's Nick like? I'm like, I never had an older brother, but I think that would be the vibe. What is our show about today? What isn't our show about? It's about love-hate. Our show is about love-hate. It's about weddings hate it's about weddings

it's not really about that some weddings we talk we talk Kardashian weddings we talk Lil Bach uh Rejection

yeah Madison Watkins our guest a very talented musician you might know her from American Idol we talk about dating your friends dating your friends

and whether you can be friends with someone after you have crossed that line into romantic territory. Texting office hours. It's a great show. It's really, it keeps you on your toes.

This week was wild, guys. I'm exhausted. I hope our audience likes how our show is evolving. It can be chaotic at times. 100%. But I feel like for the best. When you get deep, you find a little bit of chaos sometimes. Yeah.

I think Connor Wood's coming back next week. Bestie. We're just going to talk to Connor about him sex shaming me at game night. Oh. I doubt that was his intention, but... That's how I felt. Cool.

You felt sex shamed. I felt judged. Just throwing out a dirty word in a game. All right. No, Connor's going to be with Cool. You felt sex shamed. I felt judged. Just throwing out a dirty word in a game. All right. No, Connor's going to be with us. It'll be fun.

We'll have our texting office hours. We'll get, you know, whatever culturally is relevant in the world we'll talk about with Connor. We'll probably get

some dating out tidbits from a guy who I think, he used to work for Bumble. Connor, yeah. Was it Bumble or was it Hinge? It was Bumble. Yeah, the last Was it Bumble or was it Hinge? It was Bumble. Yeah, the last time he was here, he gave us some very insider information on what profile

views get the most likes. Anyway. All right, let's get to Madison. Madison, welcome. Hi. How are you? Oh my gosh. Loaded question.

What's wrong? Where do you want to begin? Wherever you want. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no. Things are good. They're good. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. I asked you before we started recording, if you're familiar with the show, cause I was going to give you a little kind of like, here's what we talk about. Just going to prep you. And then you said, oh, there's a story about how you are familiar with the show. So what is your, I'm anxious. I'm curious. I don't know if it's a good story or a bad story. Well, do you remember meeting me before today?

Should I have? I don't know. Probably not. Probably not. You would. Yeah. No, no, no. Where did we meet? It's not like, it's not like an event. It's nothing like it's, this is a funny story. So this was like like i think three years ago when did you start the podcast well three years ago okay well there we go there we go i

think it was right when you started the podcast i had listened right when you started okay and i'm a jones on third oh and in the valley one day say no more say no more listen i was there this morning that's where I ate breakfast this morning. I haven't gone in a while. That's shocking to me. I haven't gone in a couple months. But anyways, I frequent frequent. Frequent flyer. At Joe Daly. So you were sitting by yourself

there eating. Sorry, that sounds so sad. De-stigmatize eating alone. No, no, yeah absolutely i love it i love it yeah i uh absolutely just destigmatize i've i eat alone i used to eat alone a ton not so much anymore yeah so you're eating alone and i guess i just listened to one of the episodes and I walked up to you and I was like, so nervous. Like, it was like, I don't know why, but I was, I was like, Hey, so, um, I just want to let you know, I love your podcast. And like said some, I don't even know what I said. And you were like,

Oh, thanks. Like, that was weird. Not weird, not caught off guard caught off guard and but then i like sat back in my seat and i'm like stupid like why did you do that but then now i'm on your podcast so it's it's kind of a full circle moment also when people say they listen to my podcast i'm i'm usually because at first it was always I'm always I'm generally awkward when people come up in general but that I was more awkward when it was more bachelor focused right and so usually when people come up when I'm eating lunch or I'm I can be weird sometimes but you know what's weird is like I don't think I've ever done that it was very like because if I see somebody I admire I'm like oh I love them whatever and I don't know it's weird is like I don't think I've ever done that. It was very like because if I see somebody I admire, I'm like, oh, I love them, whatever.

And I don't know. It was just – I don't know what came over me. But I said thanks. Yeah, you were sweet. Okay. But I could tell you were kind of like I'm eating. Like why are you talking to me? I gave you an I'm eating look?

A little bit. But it's okay. It's okay. I probably would have done the same thing if I was like, I don't think you're mid-bite, but if I was mid-bite. All right, well. So I'm so honored to be here today. We're honored to have you.

Thank you guys for having me. This is amazing. Since three years ago, you have found yourself on American Idol. I have. Last year. And you crushed it. Thank you. You were one of the finalists.

Yes, I was. And now you have a new song coming out called if you wanted to you would yes which come on is come on we talk about that a lot let's talk about it well the internet talks about that even more and if he wanted to he would is a common trope. Do we call it a trope? Sure. I don't know. Do we know what the definition of trope is?

A word or expression used in a figurative sense. A figure of speech. A common or overused theme or device. Cliche. The usual horror movie tropes. Okay. I think I used it correctly. You did.

Yeah. If he wanted to, he would. And so that was the inspiration of your song. 1 um but i kind of wanted is there a particular guy that you were writing it about okay hang on hang on a second hang on you don't have to say of course there was of course there was but just in general i think that that is a phrase that everybody says and i wanted it to be because guys feel that way too, right? So I was like, I'm going to say if you, because somebody can specifically. Do you not feel like?

If she wanted to, she would. I'm thinking out loud. Yeah. I think, no, I think in the dating space, it's a little bit more confusing for guys. Because I think society has told us that men are supposed to chase and women are supposed to be pursued that's the kind of societal norms that we still try to we still have even though we're changing other aspects and expectations of dating. And I think as guys, I think sometimes we wonder, we think, well, we should.

And if that's what I think we're, sometimes guys can get confused is the, is she playing hard to get or is she just not interested in me? Because it's the opposite. Like, you know no that's good am i supposed to like wait you said you didn't i mean i've i've i've had that before where you know you're just like someone a girl i was dating or pursuing said something to

me that i was just like okay well you know i guess it's that's over with right and then only to like get a like some sort of message like a couple days later and and i and and she basically told me that i interpreted it incorrectly where it was like i was like oh well yeah well what can you do i would rather just i'm just i'm here to respect your boundaries and and so like i don't know it just seemed like maybe you were uninterested so right so i i don't know if if guys feel exactly that way this is this is what i i feel like from the guys that i have not been super interested in but they've been interested in me i think i'm kind of more just like you know'll text him back for like, you know, whatever.

But, and I think that's what I'm talking about. It's like, if she wanted to text you back, she would, if she wanted to hang out with you, she would make it like, for me, that's how I am. I'm like, if I want to hang out with you, we meet somewhere. Say we, we meet last night. I want to hang out with you the next day. Like, I would love for you to take with you the next day like i would love for you to take me out the next day so i'm like let's go if i'm interested in you let's go will you ask

what will you tell them tell them what that you want to date them you meet a guy yes you're excited right you're just like i had a great time yeah and he's just like, can I get your number? And you're like, sure. Right. And maybe there's some sort of like, I'll call you. Or like some vague. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of like it's unclear who agreed to who. And after you leave, you're like, wait, did they say they would text? Or did I? Or was it, you know, there's a little bit of confusion.

Are you someone who's just like, no, fuck it. I'm just going to say let's get together or do you see if he's gonna reach out and ask you out on a a proper date as they might say i think every situation is different but i think me as a woman i'm not i'm not afraid okay i'm not afraid to be like this is usually what i'll do like let's say it's vague. Before I leave, wherever we are, I'm going to be like, hey, you're super vague. But just to let you know I'm interested in you, take that for what it is. And then if it's like after that, he's like, sweet, let's hang out tomorrow. Or like, let's go on a date next week.

I'm like, cool. If he's not, if he wanted to, he would. So I'm very much like, I'm very open. And I'm not scared to get rejected. So if somebody was just like, no, I'd be like, okay, then you're not my guy. You're not scared to get rejected? No. And is that something that you've always felt that way?

No. Or is that, okay. I think I've developed that since I moved to LA. Because the city is so weird and people have so many different backgrounds and whatever that I'm just like, I don't take it personally because I feel like if I'm meant to be with someone, we're both going to be on the same page. So if he's super into me, I'm not into him. It's not it. Student loans, they suck. And if you want to pay off your student loans faster,

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It's not rejection. Was there a moment or was it more of a gradual? You must have realized at some point, I'm not afraid of rejection. I'll tell you, I, so my big relationship thing that happened to me was I dated a guy for a long time. We were pretty much in the public eye. Like, you know, people saw us and whatever. Long story short, we, this is three years after it happened so i can talk about it but we

were in a very serious relationship almost got engaged we were about to get engaged and then i figured out he was like cheating on me with like mad girls like it was mad it was crazy you say mad you mean many yes okay it was like a whole other life, basically, that was being lived that I didn't know about. How did you find out? Through a mutual friend. So one of my guy friends booked a movie with one of the girl's best friends, if that makes sense. So mutual friends. And basically what happened was the girl was talking to my guy friend. She's like, yeah, my friend's dating, blah, blah, blah. And then he's like, oh,'s like yeah my friend's dating blah blah blah and then he's like oh no like my friend's dating blah blah blah she's like no

she's like no like and you were like in a full-on relationship like about to be engaged like looking at rings how did you confront the situation so he ended up telling me because my guy friend texted him and was like if you don't tell her I'm gonna call her okay yeah so basically after that whole relationship ended it was like who else can hurt me that bad you know what I mean and I'm like so it was kind of like this like I was like rock bottom broke and and then after that i'm like listen it was i it took me a while but then i figured out who i was and my worth and what i deserve and a man and i was like oh so if i'm not going to be treated like that or if i'm going to be rejected it's either not it or they're not

i don't want to say good enough to be with me but they're not on the same level yeah i mean when people say it's like oh they're not good enough to be with me like they're not on the same level yeah i mean when people say it's like oh they're not good enough to be with me like someone can accuse them of sounding conceited or cocky but like it's just knowing your self-worth and it's not like you're not saying it to disrespect someone else you're saying it is a more of a i just know the value of my time and And my standards. I know what I want. So after that, and I feel like that when girls get to that place, it's so healthy

because I feel like in every area of my life, I feel like that now. I feel like that in my career. I feel like that with friends. I'm like, if you're not going to give the same effort

that I'm going to give, then why are we here? Yeah. What are we doing? Are you afraid of rejection, Amanda? Okay. What? What's so funny?

This is such a direct question. I'm just like, I was just for her. I'm going to get. Such a direct question. I assume that you have more fear, Allie. I think. No, I'm just trying to like it's a common thing yeah

that was good it took me by surprise no I think sometimes I am I think I think I so maybe the answer is yes

because I think there's like certain head spaces or like chapters of life where like I'm really feeling myself like I think it really depends on how much confidence

maybe that's just what it is yeah it's like maybe I'm on a good chapter no totally because it's Because it's like, I think when like, when my self-esteem is high and I'm feeling good about other areas of life, then it's really easy to like contextualize rejection as like just a tiny little blip and to like internalize the like, I don't want to convince someone to want me. Like, I really believe that through and through, but sometimes putting that into practice when like, you know, I just like feel bad about myself is a lot harder. So I think, I don't know. It still hurts.

Allie? It's still, there's still a little piece. I'm not saying I'm like superwoman over here. It's still like, but then at the same time, it's like when you logically think about it, is that how it is for you? Yeah. Well, I think it's, it's often not like the rejection from a person themselves it's like what it stirs up inside of you yeah it's the way it can make me feel about myself which I you know saying that aloud you're like oh but if it's me feeling that way about me I should really be able to like get a handle on this but there's something about how sometimes people can just kind of like poke you in just the right place that it really hurts for some reason right i was just

thinking about what you said in terms of like it you think it came from you being really hurt in in your relationship and i and again i thought to myself about my experiences i mean like i like we i think we all have a fear of rejection, but I do think I got better with it after dealing with heartbreak and feeling real loss in a relationship. And I guess it maybe comes from a place of like... What are you going to do? Or just knowing, I think when we're younger,

there's this idea. I mean, maybe it's our egos decide everyone should love us. Everyone should like us. Right, right. And the idea when we realize that someone's like, no, it just doesn't do it for me. You know, you're just like, it really, I think, affects us.

Right. If we're not used to that. If we're not used to it. If we grew up in like you know households or we had friends where we were just adored yeah everyone was just like you're the best and you're the greatest and there comes a point in everyone's life where someone or somebody just says it's not you're not my favorite you're not it you're not it for. You're not it. You're not it for me. You ain't it, boo.

And I think, I guess, when someone deals with heartbreak or rejection and they have to deal with, say, what you dealt with, it really makes some of those other, what I'm sure you now see as trivial, like trivial things of rejection or someone's like, maybe it's a simple not matching on a dating app or someone just saying, hey, I'm just not feeling this and move on that we don't take it less personally, I guess. of like other people in my life that have liked me and I haven't liked them back,

it doesn't mean that they're not as valuable to me. It's just maybe we're just not a fit. Like just recently, please don't listen to this podcast. I went on some dates with one of my guy friends. You went on a date with a guy?

That we've been friends with for like three years. Yeah. And he has made it very clear for three years that he was about it. You. About me. Yeah. About it.

About us. You want to be clear. About me. Yeah. And so I kind of, I was like, okay, I'm going to give you a shot. Let's do it. We went on a couple of dates. And I still.

What was the thing that made you. Yeah. After three years that's okay that's a good question for a lot of people were you know a lot of people would would say you know if someone were to be like hey i like this person for like two years yeah and i'd be like i think they think they don't want to go on a date with you but here you are here I am uh confusing everyone okay I'm just kidding uh but what was it yeah so I think I just realized that he had been there for me when a lot of people hadn't been there for me and it was more of this like we love each other so much and I am like

super physically attracted to him and we did have like we were friends but there were some moments like we'd kissed once and it was kind of like what was that you know like sure that whole thing but I was in Vegas actually with my friend Nikki that's here with me today and I was on my way back and like my flight was late I just had a bad day and he was like hey I'm gonna pick you up from the airport he picks me from the airport he has like all my, I'm going to pick you up from the airport. He picks me up from the airport. He has like all my favorite snacks. Like all of it. Listen, if a man gives a girl some snacks. True.

We going to fall in love with you. So I got in the car. It was like it hit me. I was like, what am I doing? Like he has served me and loved me for so long, even through other relationships. This is the type of guy that I would want to marry. Someone that's going to be there for you no matter what. why don't you want him listening to this but are you guys in love now are you guys no i cut it off so what what i'm just like don't let me get to the end

okay sorry and so then you were saying this is the type of guy you want to marry yeah but it just wasn't the guy gotcha that makes sense um but we went on a couple dates and they were great and when i was telling him it wasn't gonna work out i was like it's not because i don't adore you so it's like what i'm saying is i put myself in in his shoes where i'm like the way i feel about him i care so much for him but it's just not a fit for like long term right and i knew that doesn't mean that you say it to him i told him that i wasn't going to be able to give him what i know that somebody should give him okay well how did he handle that he was really sad do you think are you are you how do i want to answer this question ask this question are they gonna still be friends like is it gonna affect yeah because no that's a good question because

does he want to still be your friend i guess he does he does he does we we will be friends we're just taking some i feel like you need that. You need the space. You can't just automatically transition right into friends. And I don't care if it was a few dates or if it was a full relationship. You shifted things for a time. Yep. So it is better, I think, to do a clean break, not see each other, recalibrate, and then come back as friends. I never think that you can just go right into it. Oh, I mean.

Yeah. I don't think he should be her friend. Oh. Nay. Nothing against you. Nothing. nothing i think but here's the thing we're in the same friend group yeah we do this that's tough we we have been doing things the same for three years so friend group thing is an element of actually i i think i we have a really good friend group it might have been you in questions with nick it was it's something to do yesterday, my,

my Sunday questions with Nick and it had something to do with someone asking, I still want to, can it possibly be friends with an accent? I said, more likely than not, you're just afraid of letting them go and being their friend as a way to, to have some of them because you can't have all of them. And then I asked Rick to,

and said, the exception is being in the same friend group where you're just kind of forced to cordially maintain a level of, you know, civility. Diplomacy. Yeah. No, it is because even this weekend, I saw him at a party and it was,

he came up to me and he's like, hey Mads, how are you? What's going on? Yeah. And I was like, yeah, we're good. Like it was good, but. It's not that you guys can't be friendly. It's just that. up to me and he's like hey mads how are you what's going on yeah and i was like yeah we're good like it was good but it's not that you guys can't be friendly it's just that we're not gonna be we're not gonna be talking every day you're just not friends like a friend would and then one of you

will meet someone and when that person and that person like and when he meets someone and then and you guys are still part of their friend group eventually they're gonna ask about you of course it's gonna to come up. And if he's an honest guy, the only thing to say is like, I had a thing for her and she just didn't really like me or whatever it was. We went on a couple of dates,

nothing happened. And immediately she just won't see you the same way. I know. Right? And it's just like, and so I guess it just depends on the expectations of the friendship. But it seems like you guys have a reasonable expectation.

It's healthy. Like you're friends. You're friendly. Yeah, it's healthy. And he's just trying to be cool around you. But I get what you mean. Because I'm not friends with any of my exes. Like real exes that I like.

Because we only went on a couple dates, right? So it's not like we dated and we were like really in. It wasn't like that. But he wanted it to be. And that hasn't changed. He's just accepted your decision. So if he were here,

I'd be like, be cool because you're a nice guy, but don't try to be your friend. You want him to want to be your friend no i mean probably not how he used to be it's just tough it is because in his mind he doesn't want that he wants more and i just think once once you kind of mentally once you mentally like and the truth is he never was like you said yeah he was he was always friendly and you probably giving him that kind of just a little bit of hope which listen he won't he asked for that hope and you

gave it to him i did you know there's nothing wrong with that and he got what he asked for a chance and he should be grateful for that chance but now that it's over i think he should just not be your friend so brutal sure right yeah i mean if you if you like someone and you you you that's what you're asking for you're asking for a shot yeah and all you can get is an opportunity and it didn't work out right no no harm no foul no one's wrong in this scenario yeah i just for him i don't even know who this guy is but he would be torturing himself being like what a lot of people do it's like you know what i'm i could be friends yeah i can see her and be fine whatever i could be fine well godspeed i hope he's okay i hope he is too because i adore him i really do

what what what was missing? I'm not comparing it to him. I don't want to compare it to him. No, no, no. Because he genuinely, like, I think it's just our personalities. Like, we're both very strong. And not that I don't want strong, but we just rubbed. You know?

We just rubbed. Like, in the wrong way. Meaning, in conflict and different things like that, we just, we didn't handle it how I would want to. And I think there wasn't one thing I'm like, I don't like this about you. It was just kind of like this feeling I had. And I think when we kind of ended things or whatever, he admitted that he felt the same way. So it wasn't just like, oh, I'm still in love.

He was like, no, I can see where this isn't going to work out. Relationships are a fickle bunch. Speaking of a relationship that did work out, the Kardashian wedding this weekend. Okay, transition. Thoughts, opinions? I thought it was essentially like an old Italianian mob theme wedding right look like it it looked like a scene out of like uh like the godfather i thought it was kind of cool and it

was in italy so i feel like we were already in the mob boss they did like they knelt like uh before was it a priest who married them some He looked like a priest or something. It was a priest? Yeah. It looked very official. Did it the whole like old school kneeling thing, which is a very beautiful kind of traditional ceremony. How does she kneel in that dress though?

It was short. I know. That's what I'm saying. That's the other thing. You can kneel in a short dress? No, no, no. You can kneel in both. That's not what I'm saying.

It's just tight. It's a transition period. It's not. Yeah. It's like once you're kneeling, it fine but like standing up and down it's like very hard not to flash yeah i wasn't even thinking about that i was just thinking about like uncomfortable like i don't know maybe i just oh like the corset do we know what corset do we know it must have been a theme see she's so beautiful you can kneel in a i mean nick you've been to catholic weddings they kneel in a, I mean, Nick, you've been to Catholic weddings.

They kneel in full-length dresses all the time. She's got it even easier. No, I know. I'm saying, whose idea was this, do you think it was? For what?

The wedding. The wedding? Yeah. I mean, like, that it was happening? No, the theme. Oh. Not like who she,

they've been like weird Gothicness, not weird, that's judgmental. They've been, this is also not goth. I don't know. It's not, but it definitely fits their theme. But she transitioned and she had like the black dress for the reception.

She's been seen in like very dark veils. Yeah. She's had a brand change for sure. For sure. When they started dating. For sure. It's the Kardashians are obviously people who have essentially unlimited resources right and when it comes to stuff like this they can have what they want and so i just find it fascinating

is that this is what they wanted what and i don't know like i i i someone grew up very catholic i'm down for this i thought it was cool like i could i'd be totally down for this like let's go to italy and have like an old school like very catholic wedding like right that's fun hair kind of reminded me of and maybe this whole vibe maybe it's the italy aspect of it all but did you guys see house of gucci i have not seen okay when lady gaga's character like gets married like definitely like the the bumped up hair that it's like maybe it's like old Italy. I don't know. But yeah. And do they have any cultural ties to Italy? Does Travis?

I don't know. Because they're Armenian. They're Armenian. But Kim and Kanye got married in Italy way back in the day as well. So maybe it's just a hot spot. Something that they enjoy. Something that they're into.

I also think Italy is just like always sort of linked to love in some way. Isn't that more France? But I guess Italy too. Yeah. I agree. I agree with you. Like there's something like very romantic about Italy.

Okay. What would be, if you had unlimited resources, what would be your theme? A wedding? Yeah. Unlimited resources. It's just like a, you think it, you have it. Because that's essentially the Kardash it, you have it. Because that's essentially the Kardashians, right?

Yeah. I would do Greece. That's what I would do. Yeah, that's fun. You'd want to do destination. Yeah, but I would make it like crazy. Like also pay for all my friends to come. Is that what you're going to say?

Yeah, I'm just a theme. I'm talking about, that's the theme. Yeah, I'm going to go with Greece. Theme wedding. Is theme a Greece? Is Greece a theme? Yeah, sure. It's a location. I'm envision theme. Yeah, I'm going to go with Greece. Theme wedding. Is theme a Greece? Is Greece a theme? It's a location.

It's a location. I'm envisioning. Yeah. Traditional Greece. That's Ali. So I've done research on where in California I would want to go, and I think Santa Barbara is really great. I love the idea of a big white tent with lights and, like, tables.

I also like the idea of the head table being on top of the dance floor so there's not a hole in the reception, and then they remove the table after dinner. Girl, you've thought about this. Oh, I have. I really have. I will be wearing a large dress. And I don't know who I'm marrying.

Perhaps myself, like Jane Lynch in Grease. In Glee. So who knows? Do you have a theme that you would go for, Amanda? I feel like maybe this is like very boring but like something about maybe like okay family tree in the sense of like I feel like a wedding is really for the family in a lot of ways and so having it be very like naturey and having a lot of like fresh plant like like I don't know just having it be um some way of like paying homage to like family history,

but the way that would look visually is with like just a lot of plants there. Okay. I really like the idea of like having every single guest contribute in some way to like a little thing. Like I think it's really touching how it like at Jewish burials, like many different people will use the shovel and pour dirt on the casket. And so I think like some element of that, obviously, in a more like life affirming way. But we're like every single guest is in some way

chipping in to some symbol of love. Something I saw, I think it was at Sadie Robertson's wedding. She was on Duck Dynasty back in the day. And when she got married, she had her like mom and her grandma and maybe even her great grandmagrandma's dresses on display, which I thought was cool. Just showing, because then it's going along with that familial. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I thought it was a nice,

if you have the dresses, display them. Would you guys wear your mom's dresses? I tried it on recently. I don't think it's my... You tried it on? Mm-hmm. Do you take photographs of this? Yeah, do you want to see it? Put it on the screen?

I will. This is why we got a multimedia screen like this. My mom wore her mom's dress, so if I wore... She still have it? Yeah. I don't know why. I could picture you doing that before

Allie. Well, because I think Allie is like very, I think you know exactly what you want. And so it would make sense to me that you would want to like pick out your dress and have it be like exactly fitting versus. I feel like you'd be like, I don't know. So why don't I just wear grandma's? I mean that in like a. I think I'm just a very sentimental lady. Oh, you look great. Well, we're like the same size and everything. We're the same height. So it really worked for me. That's a very sentimental lady. Oh, you look great. Well, we're like the same size and everything.

We're the same height. So it really worked for me. That's a really pretty dress. Oh, that's cute. It's very royal to me. Yeah, it's giving royal. It was very well preserved. It is.

It looks brand new. Like if you were to steam that baby, it might as well be 1987. And your sister's not wearing that? No. I love the sleeves. Also, couldn't they? So good. And your sister's not wearing that? No. I love the sleeves. Also, couldn't they? Now, some people, I feel like they would take this, but then like modernize it.

But is that even an option for like, would your mom not want that? Well, that's the thing. I've seen people like take bits of their mom's dress and even put it on like the robe that they get ready in. I think at that point, like you have to just assume like the dress is done because if you're taking scraps from it like it's never going to be the same it has a big bow in the back so i was debating if i like for my rehearsal dress if i put the bow on it i thought that could be cute but well it's a really pretty dress but it also like it does look like it might be from 1987. Correct. I'm just saying if you wanted to wear it, you could take bits or modernize.

Or just tweak. I don't know. What the fuck do I know about wedding dresses? I want Nick in charge of my wedding dress. Oh, wow. It looks nice. Thanks. I was going to ask on the topic of destination weddings.

I feel like on one hand, it's kind of cool because people are already taking time off to go to the wedding. So you're sort of being like, let's make a vacation out of it. You're also asking people to travel. So I'm curious about what your take is on having a destination wedding where all friends and family have to travel a long distance to attend. Well, just in case you guys are interested, if I had unlimited resources. I'm sorry, Nick. If you had unlimited resources, what would the theme of your wedding be? It would be a New York City metropolitan wedding. That's fun. Nice. Yeah.

It would be in New York? Yeah, it'd be in Manhattan. Do you have a venue in mind? No. Central Park. You could do the ceremony in Central Park. It would be ahattan black tie wedding somewhere are we gonna get like an advance notice i'm not having it there because i think the

wedding industry is insane and in a giant waste of money and it's one day and unless someone's going to give me this experience i i'm i don't see myself paying for this type of wedding that would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right. As a former event slash wedding planner, just don't tell them it's a wedding. You'll usually get it for cheaper. Like for a venue, I would have always just like,

what I would tell people is I'm like, it's a cocktail reception. Like that's how I would get quotes from people. Don't people like, don't they know? Haven't they figured out the scam by this point? I don't know. You'd be like, oh, so a wedding.

A cocktail event. Like a cocktail event. We're just, you know. It's a birthday party. It's a celebration of, you know, we've been dating. Yeah. Anniversary party. First anniversary.

That's so good. Destination weddings. What are your thoughts? Yeah. I think if they love you enough they're gonna be there and that's why i think i want to do a destination wedding because i'm from arkansas and if somebody has a wedding the whole town is coming go razorbacks you're from arkansas and that would have not i guess but like the whole town is there you know what i mean and so for me i'm like nah i'm not gonna invite you know i love aunt suzy that was my third grade teacher but people that are gonna be at the wedding are gonna fly wherever i am you know i'm uh i'm fine with them. You know, but they're not my favorite.

I just feel like... What are you... Thank you. I need the modifier there, the dangling modifier. It's like your family, the destination. I'm fine with them. There's so many vague things. I was like...

Yeah, same. Destination wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We needed that at the beginning of the sentence. Yeah. I feel like it's one of those things where a lot can go wrong. And I want, I hope that when I get married that we have the mindset that today is our day

and I don't care. You know, show up, don't show up. I don't know. Like you got the invite. It's not my problem at this point. I'm focused on the person i'm getting married etc etc but i think a lot of people don't have that mindset and and all of a sudden travel problems and weather and you know my it's like one of those things that with a wedding my my goal is to just not care about anyone else yeah then your bride yeah yeah totally and uh that's the whole point of it

and so i guess if i want to like because like if i it's like i wouldn't want a destination wedding because i want to think of like where can other people i not to sound like selfish, but I don't care if, I guess, if you have fun, I suppose, at my wedding. Right? Like, I'm inviting people because apparently you want to celebrate the love I have with this person. So, yeah, you're welcome to come. Yeah. But, like, I'm not, I don't care if you have fun. Right?

Is that crazy to say? I know a lot of people are like, did you have fun at my wedding? And like, I'm not, I don't care if you have fun. Right? Is that crazy to say? I know a lot of people are like, did you have fun at my wedding? And like, yeah, but I'm like, I don't, I'm going to have the mindset of like, yeah, I don't care. But I think you might have a better day that way also. Because I was talking to a friend who got married in the fall and I might have already spoken about it on the show, but it was the perfect day for a lot of us. And I think we were asking her at some point, like, you had the best wedding.

Everyone had an amazing time. Like, what any advice, you know, for like the rest of us? And she was like, because I didn't go into it thinking, this has got to be a perfect day or this is a perfect day. She was like, it was a good slash great day. And she just rolled with it. And that's why she had the best time. Yeah, I don't care if you have fun at my wedding.

That's the pull quote of the episode but i 100 agree with you and i feel like as a girl that's like a crime to say because right i feel like i've triggered probably people seriously because i feel like people are like i want at this wedding is for the family whatever and i'm like it's i mean like you said you're here to celebrate me we're not here to celebrate not in a selfish way but it's it's your one day that you're celebrating not even just me but me and my husband or you know whoever so yeah I don't give it's like celebrate me don't celebrate me yeah I don't care I'm gonna celebrate this yeah relationship you show up I mean here's the invite I don't, like, we're starting without you. I don't, like.

Yeah. Like, that's definitely going to be my mindset. That's good. You know. It's good. Other than, like, my parents and her parents and things like that. Well, if we want to speak about another happy couple in Bachelor Nation, Becca Tilly and Hayley Kiyoko came out as a couple they've been

together for like four years for a while uh love them yeah great hayley released a new song called for the girls and it was bachelorette themed because i guess hayley was portraying the bachelorette in it and then in like the last moments of the music video there was a late comer to the rose ceremony and it was becca yeah hayley told me about it at the uh we natalie and i ran into them at the um elton john uh oscar post oscar party they were both there and hayley was telling me about it and it was really exciting and i mean i think a lot of like i think a lot of people like myself you know friends of you know like becca's a friend i'm not like super close with her um but we we all kind of knew and it was like you know you just wanted to respect it but i'm just so

happy for them to be able to just be out in public i don't care who you are if you have a any type of public profile and you're dating someone it's like you want you want privacy because like for whatever the reason you want privacy but then you want to like people to know because like there's this weird thing of not telling people and it sounds like you know they're just happy that everyone knows and i'm just happy they're happy yeah four years is a long time it's a very long time to keep something yeah secret for sure four years man so yeah they're great yeah so i thought that was cute and then becca used the hashtag 95P, which is apparently the nickname that she had given Haley on her podcast because she never wanted to reveal Haley's identity. So Haley's nickname or like pseudonym that Becca would refer to her as was 95P, which

stands for she's 95% sure that this is like her person or they're like going to end up together. Which I thought was cute yeah and we have our first promo for the gabby and rachel duo bachelorette um i saw they're calling them calling themselves best friends yeah they call themselves best friends i'll be honest i don't totally buy it or believe it but i'm sure they're friendly and i'm sure they're friends and i'm sure they're friends. And I'm not trying to start a controversy, but I just feel like this is more ABC just saying,

no, they're best friends. And now they're going to have to like overdo their friendship where in reality, they're probably just like cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They met on last season and like, yeah, they went through this weird experience together. They went through that rose ceremony from hell. And that bonds people.

But it's not like, you know, ABC found two friends to begin with and then made them bachelorettes. Well, that's the thing. Yeah. Going on the show is like summer camp. And some people become truly best friends. You often find like your, you know, your soul brother or soul sister or whatever. Like you're like, I feel like we've been destined, you know. And other people are just like,

yeah, you're cool. You know, we get along kind of thing. And it's just like knowing the show that are going to jam this best friend thing down our throats and so much that we're going to be like, I don't really know if they are. From your two seasons of the bachelorette,

if you had to split being the bachelor with someone else who would you have wanted to split it with oh good question yeah obviously sean right sean low now i was being sarcastic sean booth oh sean booth i'd probably do ben why not ben and i are so different you know and i think you want someone who's generally has a different personality than you, then you're not competing. Are these girls the same? They have the same personality? I don't think they're similar at all.

I think pretty different vibes. Yeah. Cool. Gabby's more, you know, like goofy, doesn't take herself too seriously. Rachel seems more of the traditional romantic. Not that that's saying it. We don't know much about either of them, to be honest. I just remember Gabby being very much like before Fantasy Suites.

She stood out to me because she told him, you know, go and explore things with other women. She, to me, strikes me as maybe more of a free spirit. Well, I guess we'll see on July 11th. It is more of the, I think you pointed this out, the Katie budget. So that's what I was going to point out because it's like this, this reminds me of Katie season,

the white backdrop, the rose petals, the like very staged, almost looks more like it's, Not the Katie budget. It's like made for print. And then you have the Hannah Brown. Like in what world would they wear that? Yeah.

But then you have. I'm sorry, those are bad dresses. You have the Michelle and the Hannah Brown promos In what world would they wear that? Yeah. But then you have. I'm sorry. Those are bad dresses. You have the Michelle and the Hannah Brown promos with floral and couture dresses. And it's interesting to me because it's not like they even happen consecutively. It's not like, oh, because of COVID, we're now having to do these standard on set. They've alternated. We had Katie with the white backdrop. People called it the JCPenney photo shoot.

Then we had michelle and she got a custom designer dress they had the whole thing with all the flowers on the basketball court then we went back to this it's just i'm like they rolled out a corvette and they got some dresses from tj maxx and said throw this on yikes get in loser we're going shopping like one of their moms is good with fabrics and they went to Joann's Fabrics or something. It does look like that. It looks like that. Whatever.

I don't know. Honestly, I don't know who, like this is, that's an ABC thing. What was your promo like? Was it more like this on like a stage?

No, it was like, am I a bad boy or am I a good guy? Oh, okay. It's kind of fun. Was that the way they did the man on the street?

I've been bad, I've been good, I've been misunderstood thing. That was the song. That's fun. Yeah, whatever. But yeah, it's an ABC choice. People, like there's a lot, as we kind of talked about

like last week, you got ABC, Warner Brothers owns The Bachelor. They have produced The Bachelor. ABC shows The Bachelor. They market The Bachelor because it's on their show. brothers owns the bachelor they've produced the bachelor abc shows the bachelor they market the bachelor because it's on their show and there's thousands of people who work on this show and and this is what we got yeah it's like i feel like the fans like when we we refer to producers and things like that i feel like the fans have this perception that it's like the seven doors you know like it's like seven evil people who like like puppet masters yeah

have all the power and control and they've always been the same people like no you got producers who like work who are storytellers who work on the grounds who are like cultivating the story and putting them in situations and planning and then you have date producers who plan the dates and then you have producers who edit the show and then you have people in marketing and you have people in social media and often warner brothers and abc like don't always agree on how to go about these things it's it's thousands of moving pieces but they got the katie budget this. I can't believe you said that. Any other Bachelor? Have you spoken to your friend Greg lately?

Because rumor has it he and French girlfriend are no longer together. I've not spoken with Greg in a while. So we may be getting him on Paradise if that's the case. I don't think so. Okay.

I don't think we'll see Greg on Paradise. I think we'll see his buddies there. That whole little friend squad. I'll be surprised if we see so. Okay. I don't think we'll see Greg in Paradise. I think we'll see his buddies there, that whole little friend squad. I'll be surprised if we see Greg. Okay. I feel confident about that. But I might be working with information that I haven't talked to him in a while. Okay. Also.

Maybe reach out. Maybe just check in, you know? That's great. What else? Matt James went on Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen. Uh-huh. And while he was on there, this wasn't even necessarily like an interview segment. Matt James went on Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen. And while he was on there, this wasn't even necessarily like an interview segment.

It was like a game, like almost like a quick fire. It's a very interactive show. Yeah. It's like fans will ask questions. So there wasn't a lot of time to add context or go into it because it was like kind of rapid fire. But Matt did say that Rachel Kirkconnell, his girlfriend and Tyler Cameron have a quote, love, hate relationship. Matt said, that's not Rachel.

Matt said that Rachel was in the audience and apparently laughed in response to that. Um, but again, it was rapid fire. So there wasn't any context or details. Uh, Matt and Rachel have moved from New York to Miami.

So maybe Tyler's mad that they moved. Or maybe it's like a brother sister love hate relationship. Where it's just like nudge nudge. I think it'd be juicier if Rachel said that than Matt. Hmm. Right. Because when someone says. Oh we have a hate.

A love hate. I think when someone says that. The emphasis is on the hate. Yeah. And that's his best friend. Yeah. So I feel like he wouldn't say that. His girlfriend and his best friend. Yeah. So I feel like he wouldn't say that.

his girlfriend and his best friend. But Matt said it. I don't think it's a thing. Who knows? And she's so sweet. Yeah. Like,

I mean, you can hate people when you're sweet, but like, you know what I mean? Well, she's from Georgia. Yeah,

she's like me. She's a southern girl. And I feel like, yeah, as someone who's dating someone who's also from the south, like, there's like me. She's a Southern girl. And I feel like, yeah, as someone who's dating someone who's also from the South, there's like a polite way of letting someone know you don't like them. You don't like them. And that is by saying like, you know, just love.

Bless her heart. Bless her heart. Love, hate. Just love. Love, hate. But like, hate. But Matt said it. Yeah.

Who knows? Maybe they're just, I mean, I feel like his closest people in life. Maybe Tyler felt a bit of, if your best friend and your roommate and your closest buddy who you view as kind of a brother suddenly like starts dating someone really seriously or potentially gets engaged, like, I don't know. It's like maybe you have a bit of animosity towards that person. They took him away or when matt hangs out with tyler it's just like a sea of women and maybe like every time like matt's like hey i'm gonna go

hang out with tyler maybe it's like a fear of like what's that environment going to look like because you know he's a tyler's a hot commodity and and uh when maybe they're out like it's you have a bunch of women it's in matt and you got tyler more approachable it could be uh maybe a love that maybe that's what she hates about it i also think like i i have a friend who i go into hooligan mode instantly the second i'm with them. And I think maybe it's kind of one of those situations where it's not like he's going to do any fuck shit, but he might be a bit of a hooligan. And especially if like you walk in and they're watching TV, just like snickering and giggling and like just being like general little menaces. Menaces, it's like, I think sometimes you can be very perceptive to like, if your significant other might feel like, oh, I know whenever she comes home, I'm always doing this.

Or I know I'm doing, I don't know. You can just kind of put yourself under a microscope. I was getting like, maybe she feels like third wheel vibes when she's with them. Maybe it's possible too. You know, because they're like, they're like boys, you know? And like, I don't know. I've been in that situation when I'm dating someone and he's with this boy and I'm like, you're not going to talk to me at all tonight. Like, am I even here?

You're not even going to look at me? Yeah. Yeah. You have these like years and years of inside jokes. Yeah. They have this bromance. But she's kind of like, okay. We all agree.

It's not a nothing statement. Just say that about about your best friend. Love, hate. I wouldn't want Natalie to say that about, I guess, any of friends that I have a true closeness to. I'd be like, well, what? What does that mean? Let's talk about that hate part.

The context would be you saying that about Natalie and one of your friends because it's not like rachel said that yeah but i did sure yeah but like if you wouldn't want to feel like natalie had a love-hate relationship with one of your friends yeah i would i would i wouldn't ignore that comment i'd be like huh something there i don't know what it is maybe well i don't know maybe we'll get more time for texting office hours uh we have some good ones you ready for this madison so ready let's do it how's it going good my name is lex i'm uh 28 years old and i live in chicago hey lex how can we help um so i have two guys that I have problems not knowing who to text.

Typically, I'm kind of in a very single phase right now. I've really been kind of slut, and I'm cool with that. It's kind of the phase I'm in right now. And usually, I don't have any problem texting guys. I pretty much have a pretty good roster, pretty happy dating and sleeping around doing whatever. But recently I've been sleeping with this younger guy for the first time ever. And we're going to just call him young guy. And it's honestly the best sex I've ever had in my life.

But he lives with his parents and they're like 20 minutes away, not in the city. Yeah. sex I've ever had in my life but he lives with his parents and they're like 20 minutes away not in the city um yeah so it's a little inconvenient to just like text him be like hey like come over and like the last text I sent him was like about like just like something we had talked about um when we were here and he just like didn't respond and now I just like don't know if I should like reach out again or wait till he texts me that he's in the city or what I should do there. What about the other guy? Are these situations in any way... I mean, they're connected in the sense that you are a single woman who is being single

and living her best life. Yeah. And they're just two independent stories? Yes. They're not related at all. The, the other one is a little is a, is a slightly different, it's a very different situation. We're just going to, we'll call him older guy. So I've known this guy for like eight years.

We like had worked together and the, his last day we started hooking up cause he just like wouldn't hug up while we worked together. But that was like eight years ago. So I was 20 and he was 29 at the time. Um, so every time we've been single since then, we've like been hooking up and we were hooking up last year for a while. And then he got a girlfriend, so we stopped. And then, um, he hit me up recently, like a couple,

like maybe two weeks ago or something, um, asking what I was up to and like he ended up like calling me so if you look at the text that i'd sent so there was a call in the middle of that that we talked on the phone for like an hour like catching up um and we had like made plans to go on a date and then he had canceled a day of kind of like a lame response and like a like not like a he he didn't like reset the plan so i kind of like called him out on that and then we haven't really like talked since all right so i don't know if i should reach out to him or if i should just let that go i feel like you're gonna tell me that he probably got

back with his girlfriend and you just hit me up too quickly we'll see let's let's like they are very independent so let's focus at one at a time i think okay yeah so just to recap young guy yes great sex lives in the suburbs with his parents yeah it'd be one thing you know his age is kind of not super relevant it just like adds to the story of him living with his parents in the suburbs where it's almost like can you come out and play jimmy you know yeah yeah and i've never dealt with someone younger and so it's almost like can you come out and play jimmy you know yeah yeah and i've never dealt with someone younger and so it's really interesting he's like i mean he's only four years younger than you i mean it's not that yeah but i typically go like 10 20 years older so going four years younger is a big difference so for you it's a big shift okay i've never gone even like a day

younger than me and i'm just curious uh i don't think you usually find that younger men uh what makes him good like what i i don't know i it like sex wise yeah like what makes him good i mean usually i mean word on the street is like younger more inexperienced men who grew up watching porn i mean aren't as good and bad as maybe like other people and here you are this like young you know he's not that young he's 24 but he i mean he is super young in terms of the sexual experience he's like literally only lost his virginity like three years ago so i'm like how is this real life like i don't get it i don't understand i mean literally he'll be over it like he came over the other day just like because i was he called me he's like i'm in your neighborhood and i was like well i'm

going out to dinner with some girlfriends he was like i'm like literally like two blocks from your house i was like all right fine like you can go over you have 30 minutes he made me come like three times before like in like 10 minutes like from when he arrived like i'm like i don't like i don't i don't understand all right so you can't put a finger on it, but it's good. Yeah, but he can put a finger on it. He can put a finger on it. Am I allowed to say these things? I'm sorry. I don't really even listen.

I just thought, I was wondering if there was, like, a takeaway, something to look for. I'm dead. I'm literally dead. I don't know. Also, for reference, like, you know, he's, like, 6'8", wears, like, a size 15 shoes. So, like, he's 6'8 and wears a size 15 shoes. So that's also very helpful. Okay. So he's well endowed?

Yeah. Okay. All right. Exciting times for you. And so where did we leave it off with? With young guys. I feel like calling him young guy guy such a disservice like uh let's call him with theo he left in the morning we hung out for you know whatever so we hung out at night we hang out in the morning and then he left and i said to pay i was at target and

i don't even know that i can say this on this. So I sent a picture of a waterproof mattress protector because we had talked about how I needed that. Yeah, okay. Keep the sheets clean. Target really knew what I needed after the convo today. And was sitting at the end. Because it was like soaking. How did he respond to? He didn't respond at all.

I'm like do I reach out. That was it. Yeah. All right. So for the people listening at home. Obviously we know there's this very sexual relationship. Yeah. I'm not trying to date him.

No that's fine. He does talk like he's 24. He says bet a lot. 100% he talks like he's 24 he says bet a lot 100 he talks like he's 24 bet um and then you sent that did you talk about this we talked about needing a waterproof mattress protector underneath my sheets because it was a problem that it was like causing stains on my mattress and how did he respond to that when we talked in person oh yeah no like it was cool yeah i mean like we were soaking the bed from corner to corner and like leaving stains on my mattress so i said i needed a mattress a waterproof mattress protector are you gonna lay this out next time it's already under underneath

my sheets um i think you just reach out to this guy yeah i mean like do you have a no risk thing going on here i mean i just don't want to come off as like like desperate like i already texted him and like he didn't text me back and he lives in the suburbs so it's not like it's not like i'm gonna be like hey like come over like two in the morning it seems to me that you have a rapport with this guy that you're allowed to say things like hey do you want to come over and fuck or yeah i mean he i mean i do that when i know he's in the city but i just don't know he's in the city yeah so i mean you it sounds like you have a pretty even graphic relationship you're sending pictures of like clean sheets so even if even if like you sent him a message and apologized for my

crudeness and if you were like i missed that you know whatever like you could i don't know if that's what you want to do i don't think he would care like if you're asking me if like if he would mind you reaching out to him and you wouldn't sound desperate by saying hey i like i'm desiring you like however you want to let him know that you're desiring him i think it's totally fine and okay okay all right you have a sexual you have a sex only relationship with this guy oh yeah so like make it about sex okay i just don't want to come off too desperate and lose it because it is so good so like that's what well i mean you're dealing with a 24 year old guy who's living with his parents this this could go away at any moment and if he's that good with with sex then he's probably you know out there

yeah like this will end at some point oh i know i know i would just like to try not to get too digmatized so that when it goes away you don't you don't convince yourself you're in love oh don't worry he's too stupid for me to fall in love with him. Bet. Yeah. He's like, he's a little, he's like, you know, a little, a little crazy. So, you know, probably why it's so good. Yeah. I think you reach out and you be very forward about what you specifically want from him. Because if this guy is just about like fucking and having as much sex, then what he doesn't want is someone who does look like he likes them

or is getting clingy. So the more you can make it about the sex and clear, because that's what you really want, then there's no way for him to get worried that you start to like him. Just make it more about the act. Yeah, and maybe make it logistical. Because it sounds like this is kind of like you're not going to triple text him type thing.

So it's like we want this to result in plans. So I think you could be like, when's the next time you're going to be in the city because insert whatever wild sex shit you want after. Yeah, I don't know. Send a nude? I don't know. Or like I would, if there's something like

specific you could reference i'm crazy she's got she's got fucking i have so many mattress protection i have so many thoughts context matters i think what you want to do is i think you want this message to like implant him with the image of you guys fucking like i think you want to send something like kind of like i i don't know if you want to say something like specific like referencing one thing that you did that you know you both really liked or just but like like when's the next time you're going to be in the city because i want you to what or like whatever it is so that way it's like you already know what it is so yeah that's i think that's perfect all right just make it about the sex.

But he lives with his parents. What does that have to do with it? What if it pops up on his phone? And I'm like an adult who lives by myself. What if it pops up on his phone? Sending something that vulgar. I don't know. I'm not worried about his mom picking up his phone.

Yeah, it just seems like a kid who probably had Playboys in his room under his bed at 14. And the type of friend that I would go to when my parents didn't let me do anything. It sounds like he's probably this guy who just like his mom still does his laundry and he lives at home. But he has a very independent life. He's probably had his own TV and cable in his bedroom. And his room was probably like his sanctuary where his parents like respected his privacy even though he was nine like that's that's who i envision you know like that that friend who like i was like wait you're allowed to do this like what

in what world you know and you'd go over there and like watch rated r movies and shit like that when you were a kid like this is seems like that's this is him so the fact he lives with his parents like he's he's lives with his parents because like that's his sanctuary you know i i at 18 it's like i got the fuck out i got no privacy i can you know he's not worried about privacy so i don't i wouldn't worry about mom and dad. Yeah, I'm not too worried about it. What's going on, Madison? I stressed her out, I can tell. I'm sorry, girl. I'm sorry, girl.

First of all. She's from Arkansas. She's a little bit more. I love the red hair, girl. You're killing it. Thank you. Do you want my honest opinion? Yeah.

I don't know. I think you're better than this. I think you, not like in a way where I'm like, you're 28 years old. You're beautiful. You look like you got it going on. We're around kind of the same age. I just turned 27. I'm like, I feel like, I don't know.

I just feel like he, not that it's bad if you live with your parents, but I'm like, I feel like, I mean. Why can't she get some good drink? She can do whatever she wants to do. She can do whatever she wants to do. But I'm just saying, like, I feel like, I feel like you're questioning it a lot too, you know, which causes you anxiety and not to bring it full circle, but I'm like, if he wanted to he would

you know what i mean so if he wanted to text you back or you you're not you're not about because you're not about you don't want a relationship at all that's what i'm saying she doesn't want a relationship yeah so you're just like you're just like they're both having fun i was in like a very serious relationship for years and now i'm just like having fun and dating like inappropriate men, whether they're 25 years older or younger. Like I'm, I'm just having fun right now. Like right. You're in the,

uh, straight sex as long, you know, the, you're only, you're only expectation in requirement is mutual consent. And as long as that's happening and they're fun and yeah, you know,

cool people to be around. So I guess i would only disagree in that sense because she's she's she because that's not her motive this is not her feelings yeah she's not you're not being vulnerable you're not worried about them you're just worried about i just don't want to double tax like to be honest well that's that's where i think you're you're yeah you're doing yourself a disservice if If you don't care, you don't care. Right. Yeah.

So if you double tax and he gets annoyed by you or disinterested, all you're losing is the good sex, which, bummer, you won't be having anymore. That feels like a big loss, to be honest. Fine, but just don't let your ego take over something that you are saying. It's just about the sex. It's not about him yeah yeah you know and oh he's too dumb to date or whatever like you don't like at some point like you don't like him you're you he's adding only value for sex and like yeah he might be great but like whatever yeah and so that's kind of more of what i'm saying you have nothing to lose so don't act

don't act like you have something to lose just be straightforward i guess is that's what i'm for sure my point all right uh guy number two yeah okay so this is a vastly different situation and i feel like i already know what you're gonna say is to not text him because like it is toxic a little bit you think it's toxic you know sum up sum up tell me why you think it's toxic um because i've always had more feelings for him than he's had for me i would be the hopeful one as you would say okay more so with him than anyone you know like so you like him i've always liked him if he called you up today and said what the fuck am i doing i want to be with you you would say i'm i'm down to try for sure yeah oh yeah oh yeah like we have a long history like i said like eight years i've known

him every time i start hanging around him again my sister thinks it's like the funniest thing ever because like he's the one who's always made me like really like like i don't know what to text like i don't know what to do whereas like with other guys i'm like um they're fine you know like whatever like i i feel like i have control and i lose it more so with him um because i've always liked him and he does have his like shit together but like it's never gonna work because i know that he wants like a family family and like children sooner rather than later and he's you know like 10 years older than me and like that's what he wants you don't want that right now i don't think i want kids ever to be honest okay um but definitely definitely not in the next five five years for sure but i don't think ever

and then why why why are we waiting so other than you like i just really yeah i just really like him like i've always really liked him like he's he's always like pushed me to like be better and he's been one that's always been like able to get through to me he's like been been the one who's like been able to push me into therapy and to like trying to leave the service industry and like he's he's always been one who's like pushed me to be better and i've always like okay respected his like opinion and yeah i've just always liked him but anyways like i know we're not gonna date i know that's the situation because like we do want very different things and he's way more like emotionally mature than i am at this point like i feel like he's got his shit together and i'm like

still trying to figure it out and you're and you're been you've been hanging out with him no so he recently broke up with his girlfriend which we always hang out when we're both single okay and he hit me up i don't know when they broke up i know the last thing they posted together was like in march um but he recently hit me up and um like asked what i was doing whatever uh asked me to hang out we ended up he or i ended up saying i couldn't meet up that night that we had planned he ended up calling me. We talked on the phone for like an hour, catching up. We were supposed to hang out the next day.

He made a dinner reservation. Ended up canceling it like day of. It's kind of like a lame excuse and like didn't, didn't like, he was like rain check, but didn't like schedule something. And I was like, hey, like that was kind of bullshit. Like, you know, like. So let's, let's, let's read the text. Yeah. Yeah. Still trying to get my life back in order from this weekend. You free tomorrow or Friday. Sorry, but something came up today and I can't meet you have to take a rain check. Weather sucks today. So maybe I'll be, it'll be warm soon and we can

ride like a motorcycle. Yeah. Dang a cancellation and a vague reschedule i'm a little disappointed sir i'm sorry i know that's rude i have a lot going on right now and i just can't let anything drop or it will really fuck things up for me no worries i get shit comes up i just hope i'll get to see you soon he didn't respond to that nope and it's been like two weeks yeah i think he got back with his girlfriend to be like to be completely honest like that my assumption is that he texted me too quickly after they broke up and they got back together that would maybe or maybe not or or who knows but like i think more importantly like you you're right that he's just not going to be your guy and he probably senses your interest

in him and he knows yes he knows so they have i'm him and i'm like respectful of you and i care about you as a person and even though i like you and to your point maybe he had a moment of weakness and vulnerability to reach out to you because he is comfortable with you and then was reminded via text of your interest in him and probably decided to back away because it might complicate things especially if he's like this emotional mature person that you're referring to so regardless if i got back together with my girlfriend or not i would want to back away from something where i felt like you know that person was more hopeful than I was. And so I would just.

And he's said things to me like that in the past. Yeah. So that's what's going on now for you. Like, I think you need to like, you know, when you said, you know, he's helped me this and he's helped me do that. Yeah. That's great. And I think you can have a lot of love for people and care for people who've done those things for you, but like you still got to see the whole picture, right? You

still got to see, you know, from a 30 foot view of what the whole scene looks like, you know, like from an airplane, so to speak. And yeah, he's helped you and made you feel good about this and he's guided you. That's great. But there's other aspects where he's not feeling a need for you. Yeah. And you have to see that as, you know, also part of who he is. He's not the only person in this world who can like make you feel good about yourself or, you know, give you like a, the, the talking to about like, Hey, I know you're making a lot of money bartending or waiting talking to about like, hey, I know you're making a lot of money bartending or waiting tables, and you might make a little bit less money

in a short period of time, but this might be something you have to get out of and you have to go backwards before you go forward, that type of conversation or people who believe in you. So you've latched onto this one guy as someone who's really made you feel good about yourself and you've probably given him and that relationship too much credit. And maybe it's because overall you're just not all that interested and, and being in a relationship. Yeah, I'm not. you enjoy this guy. It's fine. It's fun. He makes you feel a certain way. And it's like, these are identical situations in the fact that you have two different guys feeling very specific,

feeling very specific needs for you. And those specific needs, you like that feeling they give you. Yeah. But obviously it's, you're not in a relationship with either of them. So both, both of these needs are filling. You have to just accept that they're going to come and go and you have to be careful not to chase them and lose your power because they're very temporary things right that's what i'm worried about like i in just in general just like over over texting to like lose power because i'm okay with guys feeling different voice like that's what a roster is for like different guys feel different places you know but like i like i mean i would get out of your ego where like if you have to double text who gives a shit yeah i agree you know but the point in which you are like worrying about it

investing a lot of time then yeah all that is is to you is a signal that you need to like step away yeah i'm too invested i'm too like caught up in this and maybe i need to like you know get away from it and and find something else but like double texting or like putting yourself out there i mean honestly like i mean probably just because you like the guy you know i would back away but like short of of, of that, like reach, I mean, reach out to either of these guys if, if you want to hang out with them. Yeah. Like you worrying about like status or like your position of power in this relationships, I think is kind of a waste of your time and energy. You worrying about your energy is a waste of your energy. You know what I'm saying?

Like you, you don't, you, you't you you've recognized one you don't want to date the other one you just know it's not going to happen and you've you seem like you've accepted both oh yeah i accepted that like years ago and so you're you're focusing a ton of energy on things that you've already accepted aren't going to be in your life long term yeah so stop stop doing that okay you have to be honest with yourself is this a relationship where i should or won't have an expectations of someone and what are those expectations and then you have to be consistent with those expectations guy one the expectation is good sex whenever you guys are available that's it so it's unfair to change those expectations guy two is i'm gonna like go riding or motorcycling or

have a good like we're gonna go to a movie because we can and i'm not gonna like and he might be available he might not things are gonna come up we're not each other's number one priority just like the other guy but we're just a good time yeah and that's the only expectation i have of this guy but you are you have those aren't the expectations you have you have an expectation of everyone to respect i respect people to respect my time whether they're my friend my boyfriend someone i'm having sex with he said sorry schedule he said he didn't reschedule he didn't have like but what if yeah but you only reschedule with someone who like you know you want to or have available he didn't reschedule with you because like maybe his calendar was full maybe he didn't know when he was available maybe his calendar was unclear and it wasn't a huge

priority to fit you into what is otherwise maybe a busy schedule yeah and that's where you're not being honest with yourself about like the expectations you have for this guy come on nick bro unfortunately he's so correct in everything he's saying. I'm sorry, girl. He's really hitting you with the truth. You need this, girl. Because I think you're saying you don't care, but you care. No, I do.

I do care. Oh, no, I do care. Or you're saying. The second one, I do care. Okay. Second one, you care. Yeah. The first one.

No, not at all. Like, that's. Got it. That is what it is. The second one, I. Yeah, the first one, no, not at all. Like that's, no. That is what it is. The second one I've known for a long time. I think you're being hard on yourself by calling it toxic, but I think you are recognizing your vulnerability

and you're calling that toxic because you realize you're like, you're- Uneasy. You lack a little bit of the strength that is required to hang out with this person. And that's okay. It's okay to acknowledge that you don't have that. but like recognizing it before you put yourself in this situation so right now maybe you shouldn't hang out with him because yeah it's tripping you up a little bit yeah yeah yeah

i probably should just cut it off yeah but it's hard because i know when he hits me up i'll be like yep sure like come pick me up and I'll be like, yep, sure. And that's fine. Maybe you do that. Maybe you just say, you know what? I'm not going to reach out if he wants to hang out, I'll let him hang out and we'll go out and then we'll see. I'll check in with myself to see if I'm emotionally like, like centered to like deal with the desire. I mean, to be honest, I already know the answer is no. Every time i don't see him for like a year and then we hang out i'm like

fuck i'm just as weak as i was last time yeah but you know it is what it is i'm not going to reach out though i'm gonna wait till he does and then go from there all right all right well thanks for calling us we're very enter very entertaining all right thank you so much for your help take care yeah have a good one all right bye bye madison thank you so much for coming thank you for having me uh you have a song that by the time this what comes out it's probably today no yeah it's probably gonna be this will be out when this it's out that's out that's out. It's out. Woo! So, when you get done listening to this podcast, go listen to Madison's new song.

If you wanted to, you would. Yeah. Anywhere you listen to music. Anywhere. Spotify, iTunes. All of the above. Is there a music video on YouTube? No. No.

It's coming out in a couple weeks. Where else can people find you? Everywhere. Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, in Los Angeles. Is it just your name? Yep. Madison Watkins. Everywhere.

Everywhere. I'm so jealous of people who have a universal. Listen, it took time. It did? It took time. But you got there. Call every single one. We're changing the name.

Congratulations on all your success. Thank you. there. Call every single one. We're changing the name. Congratulations on all your success. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. Go listen to Madison's song. Subscribe to our show. Write a review. Only if it's good. All that fun stuff.

We're back next week. You know, it'll be good stuff. And get some help writing texts with Office Hours. Get some help writing texts with Office Hours. I feel like you guys are enjoying this new segment. Love you all. Bye. Bye.

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