The Viall Files - E428 Mormon Swingers, Verdict Predictions & Text Help with KP Parker

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor Gossip Edition! Today we are joined by comedian and TikToker KP Parker to dive into the latest news in pop culture. On this episode we get into some Bachelor Nation news with Becca Kufrin proposing to Thomas Jacobs, the rocky breakup between Peter Weber and Kelley Flanagan, and Kelley’s ongoing statements that Peter wasn’t someone to look up to as a spouse. We also dive into the crazy drama that is Momtok and how a situation with a group of Mormon “soft swingers” ended in heartbreak and disaster when boundaries were crossed, how boundaries can lead to temptation, and how playing with fire always leaves someone burned. After that we analyze the closing statements of the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Trial and predict what we think the final verdict will be, given everything we’ve talked about thus far! We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours caller who places too much emphasis on the first person she’s dated using Hinge. She asks for help on how to not focus on keeping score and thinking about if she actually likes the guy she’s seeing, or if her ego is speaking for herself.  “Instagram is not a love language!”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Manscaped: Get 20% off and free shipping when you use code VIALL at http://www.Manscaped.com Peloton: Right now is the perfect time to try out Peloton, the Peloton Bike+ is now $500 less. Visit http://www.OnePeloton.com to learn more.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @kpifthatscool If you are experiencing domestic violence, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233, or go to thehotline.org. All calls are toll-free and confidential. The hotline is available 24/7 in more than 170 languages. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files freestyle edition i'm your host nick joined by am by Amanda in studio. Allie is via Zoom. She had a COVID lunch. There was an exposure. We're going to hold off for a few days and see what happens. She, today, does not have it, but responsibly let us know that she had lunch with someone she later found out. He lovingly took the test as soon as I had left, which was interesting timing. He lovingly took the test as soon as I had left, which was interesting timing. I do think COVID has really tested, especially now that we're in this stage where I know a lot of people who are taking things very seriously, but now are a little bit looser. I think now in this specific era, it's really testing how honest you are when no one's watching.

Because it's like you know when you have symptoms and when you should take a test and when you're like, oh, but I really want to go to this thing. I have a friend who took it very seriously. And I've seen him once in two years. Him and his wife and his kid, they haven't done shit. They have isolated. And recently they have a celebrity friend and that's part of their circle, and this celebrity friend did a meet and greet in Florida. Didn't tell him about the meet and greet, had dinner, gave him COVID.

And I'm just like, what? Come on. He's just shaking everyone's hand. That's the one way you can get COVID. A hundred percent. And it's also like, you know, which of your friends are most concerned about it and like what kinds of information they would like to know to make informed decisions. And so it's very much like an exercise in like self-restraint.

It is. Well, we're glad so far, Ellieie, that you don't have it. Also, another person who doesn't have it, our guest, knock on wood. Seamless. KP Parker is with us today. Hello, feeling healthy. How are you?

Good, yeah. Feeling good? Yeah. I found KP on TikTok and I thought she was hilarious. And so I was just like, you should come on our podcast. And here she is. Welcome.

Thank you. How are you? I'm good. Yeah. Excited to be here. KP Parker. What a name. And you've recently changed it.

Well, like five years. Yeah. I changed it. Oh, five. That's not recent. No. Well, it's been a quick five years. Okay.

But no, I just, yeah, I was going by my legal birth name and then I was like, I thought similarly to you. And I was like, oh, it's fun when people have initial names. And I like when people call me KP. I can just do that full time. There's no rules. And KP is unique. When I DM'd you to come on, I was like, I guess it's KP. Is it KP? I wasn't sure. Yeah.

Only other one is Kim Possible. She really did it for us. That was the first thing I thought about when I dyed my hair red was I was like, I can be Kim Possible for Halloween now. Yeah. Good. Smart. But KP, it rolls off the tongue.

I don't know who Kim Possible is. Oh my God. That's interesting. that is that an omission i should not in your mind what is she yeah right now like a some sort of like superhero for kids great yeah she's she's a cartoon like uh she's got that friend with a naked mole rat ron stoppable and rufus the naked mole rat and she uh she kind of stops crime i would say right she stops crime she's just generally a badass okay all right i feel like before uh girl boss became co-opted and controversial and

like a bad thing to be i think you could make a case that she was like an original girl boss yeah yeah she's just like absolutely fighting people also the main villain uh shego was also i don't know looking back at kim possible i'm like i feel like i have in my head an image of who it is cartoon redhead okay yeah yeah quick reminder we pushed uh as you guys know maybe maybe you don't know, Thursday, going deeper with Fibula. And back to our regular scheduled programming next Monday. We have a lot to get into this episode. I think we just knock out the Bachelor talk and then Mom talk. It's been going all over TikTok.

We were going to have Taylor on this podcast. I spoke with her on the phone. She was going to fly out. I was like, hey, I reached out. I was like, I don't know if you know, I host the podcast. I gave her all the things. I tell people why they should come on. And then apparently she listens. She's like, oh yeah, I know your podcast uh and listen and then she was like should i come out or should i because i offered to zoom i was just like hey we can we can zoom this and then she offered to come out and then i was like well let's hop on a phone and me and shaunti my our producer we hopped on the phone and talked and then and then we'll table

we'll table it we'll tell the story then we'll get into and if'll tell the story. Then we'll get into, and if you don't know what mom talk, it's basically there's this situation of influencers who reside in Utah who identify as Mormon. And one of these couples came out and talked and mentioned that her and her husband are getting divorced. Her name is Taylor.

That's the person i talked to and uh they also she went on a live and talked how they were in this group of soft swingers which i first time i ever heard that term is on the phone with her and um anyways we'll discuss we'll discuss i'm already like they're like medium firm swingers like i want to know the spectrum that's what you call a soft tease yeah yeah uh and then we'll discuss i'm already like they're like medium firm swingers like i want to know the spectrum that's what you call a soft tease yeah yeah uh and then we'll get into uh we are in the jury deliberation of the johnny depp and amber heard uh we'll in the final stretch we'll discuss what we think will happen and if we were on the jury how would we vote uh we haven't i thought the final date that we we haven't talked since the closing statements amber heard was on the uh stand one more time and really shit the bed no pun intended i thought it will uh get into that so let's uh ally take it away yes so moving

right into bachelor t uh friends of nick friends of show friends of all of us uh becca and thomas are engaged yeah congratulations she she proposed to him um and her caption on instagram said in the ultimate plot twist he said yes we've been keeping this secret just between us and close family and friends for a while but we're excited to shout it from the rooftops. Did you know, Nick? I knew that Thomas was shopping for rings because I know the person he got his ring from because I'm related to them. But I had no idea about all this other stuff.

So I knew the engagement was on the horizon. Do you think Thomas will now propose to her? A double proposal? I don't, that's, do you think he should? I don't think he should. I don't think he needs to.

I think maybe just give the ring that he got, but I don't think it has to be on one knee. Yeah, I don't, I feel like that would take away from what Becca did. That would almost be like, okay, that was a fun little party trick.

Well, let me do the real thing. I think it would minimize be like, okay, that was a fun little party trick. Well, let me do the real thing. I think it would minimize the proposal. And I love that she did that. I think if he did do it again, then she'd have to do it again. And it would be a big loop. It'd be like looking in a mirror and it just never ends. You're going to have to cut it somewhere.

I think now's the time. That last person talking. I think they're great. I've gotten to thomas um one of my favorite redemption arcs thomas is the reason why and for all you basher fans out there when you hate it so much that i as you call play devil's advocate with the villains like shanaad and just simply suggest maybe they shouldn't burn in hell from what we watched on edited reality TV because everyone was calling Thomas a narcissist and you know Katie spent a week with them and warned people about him and all these things and he is a delightful dorky charming man who like you know good for him and boy people were so hard on him for a long time and said some really nasty things about him all because reality tv told you to so just remember thomas next next season when inevitably someone comes on and says or does some shit and you all want to crucify them and you want me to crucify them too.

Thomas is our poster child for why we just temper hatred in any direction towards one person. Speaking of engagements, Michelle was seen without her engagement ring, sparking split rumors. Of course, the internet sleuths did their thing. We're looking at when the most recent liked photo was with Nate, etc., etc. her engagement ring, sparking split rumors. Of course, the internet sleuths did their thing. We're looking at how many liked, when the most recent liked photo was with Nate, et cetera, et cetera. Now, in actuality, it was just that her friend tried on her engagement ring while they were out. Someone snapped a photo in the split second that was happening. And then things

spiraled from there, but they haven't bought a house together. And I think there were some other things kind of leading people to question how serious or kind of how things were going with Michelle and Nate. Then she wrote something. Yes. She said, okay, I typically don't come on here and address these types of things, but because I received so, in all caps, many messages about it, received so, in all caps, many messages about it, dot, dot, dot. Ali does not read the punctuation is what I'm realizing. How many messages do you think so is? Oh, that's a good one. 70.

Oh, I was thinking like 12. Michelle, I feel like Michelle probably gets a lot. Yeah, you're probably right. More than 12. I bet it's more like 12 i'm i'm sure it feels like a lot but i bet it wasn't 70 yeah yeah well i'm trying to think i'm trying to think of how many dms we get if there's something that like happens on the podcast that a lot of people respond to sure like god yeah 20 yeah probably anyway so many there's a video circulating of me on a rooftop this weekend,

and I'm not wearing my engagement ring. To the person who is paying close enough attention to catch that moment, you also have to be paying close enough attention to see one of my good friends briefly remove my engagement ring to try it on and then place it back on my finger. Just a friendly reminder that Nate and I, we are human beings, not a zoo exhibit. Not to mention, videoing somebody without them knowing is creepy. It's not cool.

Nice read. I really felt for her after that. I feel like she gave us the teacher moment with the line, if you were paying close enough attention to that. I was like, oh yeah, get up. I get her frustration, I really do. I just don't feel like those messages ever really come across the way they're intended to.

And yes, they're not zoo exhibits. That is obvious. But they are a reality TV couple that their platform is based off of that. These are common questions. It's the, I guess, the price one pays, I suppose. I don't think social, Instagram is not a love language. I mean, you can definitely not post on someone.

Actually, that's really interesting to think about. What? Social media as a love language. Because I think for some people it really is. It's sort of like a form of words of affirmation, but it's like. No, I think it's a validation platform. Yeah. Okay.

I don't think it's a love language. I mean, so many like. I don't think it's a good one. Yeah, but I don't think any real love is being shared through couples. Yeah. Right? Like. I feel like more often than not, when I see people that are overly posting their relationship,

I'm like, that's. Red flag. Red flaggy. So I think if anything, it's. And so like. Anti-love language. Like certainly like Natalie and I will post stuff, but it's not for us. Yeah.

Like, it's not like, I'm not like, oh. I really wish you had. Oh, my God. Thank you. I wore that cute outfit and I couldn't help but notice you did. You know, like, it's the things that we say to each other behind, like, the other stuff is, I'm quite literally for's it's for the audience i guess right because it's not like you know i mean if she makes like a sweet video i'll see it before

she posts it and i'm like oh that's really sweet thanks you know but it's once it's out in the world it's it's not for us anymore. Yeah. But I don't know. The Nate and Michelle of it all, they, listen, I think they have every right to live their life however they want and be more private than public. That's fine. And maybe that says nothing about the relationship. That said, their public behavior historically might suggest it is, they're not attached at the head. It is curious.

Yes, it is. They, they, they, they seem very, they seem like a very independent couple. That would be best case.

And they were gifted $200,000 to buy a house and they haven't seemed to have done that. So, you know, and maybe they are more methodical and more uh you know maybe the more michelle very mature person you know teacher who like think probably is very thoughtful in her decisions is probably thinking hey i got engaged on a tv show sure i got two hundred thousand dollars let's not rush that's possible but also like history tells us as it relates to like bachelor couples that who knows who knows i wonder if this would have been the reaction to a more like established lovey-dovey

couple not having a ring on i'm like i think i wonder if people were looking at this being like trying to fit the pieces of who you are together now that we see no ring. Astute observation, KP. Thank you. Yeah. Again, not that it really matters, but yeah, they're whole people. I mean, when Vanessa and I broke up, I lost like overnight 100,000 followers. Because, well, I mean, listen, those 100,000 people were like, I don't know know i only care about

the relationship i'm here for a happy couple i'm here for the happy couple that's it okay so right and you know michelle got her 20 messages like you know there are people who are in fact only following you for your relationship that's kind of comes with the territory i suppose so yeah i mean just one last note is just that michelle is taking a break from teaching after feeling burnout from that and the bachelorette which makes total sense um good for her yeah i know a lot of people seem to be really judging like there's a there's a there's a a niche group of bachelor fans that loathe the idea of people who like use this platform to try to expand, you know, opportunities. It's just like if you were a teacher or an accountant that you are somehow a traitor to yourself. It's like do what the chyron says. You were introduced to me as

Michelle, like 26 or 28 or however old she was. You did it to be famous. It's like, nah, you were given. Life has changed. Life has changed. You've been given this incredible opportunity and you'd be a fool not to like investigate and see what other passions you might have because you can be a teacher in so many ways other than, you know, collecting a paycheck from the city of Minneapolis. Yeah.

You can also go back to teaching whenever. I'm like, that's not a... I don't know if she's a teacher in Minneapolis school district, so I don't need a bachelor fan to... We'll get so many messages. Do your homework! Listen, Father's Day is around the corner, and we all know people can be hard to shop for especially our dad so let's give them the the gift of grooming if you're listening and you're a lady and i don't know how familiar you are with the the under but it's a lot of a lot of things moving

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the Peloton Bike Plus is now $500 less. It's the best price yet, including free delivery and setup. And there are more game-changing prices available on the original Peloton Bike and Peloton Tread. Visit onepeloton.com to learn more. So Kelly Flanagan said that Peter was fun and games, didn't, quote, look up to him in the way she wants to look up to a spouse. Ouch. Cutting. She to look up to a spouse. Ouch. Cutting. She talks shit about Peter a lot. She said, I don't think there was one specific thing that led to the downfall for me and Peter.

It was just a lot of little things. Peter and I had a lot of fun, but I don't know if I looked up to him in the way that I wanted to look up to my spouse. And then they were talking about, like, intelligence and, you you know pushing each other to grow and looking up to someone and i think it was mike who mentioned well you know he's really brilliant and smart with aviation but i think she was talking more you know day-to-day things because when you get home after how long they date for a few months i think more than that it took her that long to figure this out i mean she's talked a lot of crap about peter every time she goes on a she seems to be very willing to share her i guess honest points on peter which i guess is fine but there's also like a you know like hey i have you know i've

answered those questions i wish them the best type of option as well she definitely definitely, I don't know. I don't love it. They were together for nearly nine months. And she wants to look up to him. I don't know. It's kind of a weird way to describe. I agree.

I'm like, is she saying respect? I'm like trying to figure out what look up to means. Is it like, I think it's like, I think maybe she's alluding to like,

I feel like when you really respect and admire your partner, when you're like, God feel, I feel like when you really respect and admire your partner, when you're like, God damn, you are so freaking smart and poised. And like, I just like,

I respect the shit out of you. Like, I think it's more of like speaking to an absence of that as opposed to like the presence of something that was really terrible. Couldn't she have just said, you know, we just realized we're just not the right fit for each other. Like,

why is the way like clearly you know like peter's just his own person he's doing his thing and for some person he'll be i'm certain a great partner like say we all know peter weber he's a nice thoughtful guy who i've i've i've met far worse people than peter weber He's really considerate and nice. And maybe he's in a fuckboy stage of life. I don't know. But it just seems like an unnecessary dig about someone you used to date.

Yeah, it's a very vague dig too. And I'm like, I think there's maybe something else there because I'm like, I agree. If what she's saying is true, I would probably just describe that as like, Oh, I didn't see too much of a future. We're at different spots in our lives,

but it is an odd little dig to be like, I can't look up to him. And then to speak about intelligence seems like maybe Peter's not dumb. Yeah, totally. And yeah. And like, like he's flying.

I mean, yeah. Like Mike Johnson was saying about like him flying, like that's a very intricate difficult operation it's also so high stakes he's flying like the he's flying the planes of planes for united you know like he's flying like international travel to like south africa like i feel like there's a level of aptitude is that is required for for but she didn't discredit that i think there's a level of aptitude that is required for. But she didn't discredit that. I think there's different levels of intelligence, like whether it's like emotional or practical. I think Kelly should move on.

Yeah. And when asked about it on an interview, she could easily just say, listen, I'm wishing nothing but the best. We're just not a good fit. And what a nice guy. I do think there's something to be said though for being honest about why relationships end because i think there's this level of like in what capacity i think i've been thinking about this a lot just like with some of my friends who are like i've been making some friends who are like in their like 30s and 40s and like hearing from them

like in their words why their friends like marriages ended or whatnot else it's like i feel like the intricacies of what actually contribute to a relationship ending and wanting to call it quits are something that i don't know that we always discuss with nuance oh i i mean to your friends and you know people that you might be able to like pull some information from sure but like to the public not on like public podcasts of what she's done multiple times and they've been broken up for over a year it just seems kind of like unnecessary yeah to like say something like i just didn't look up to him and like to kp's point it's like vague and also like but But definitely shady. Shady. For sure.

Yeah, she's trying to be shady. I mean, that's fine. But it's like, I don't know. It feels like Kelly is still trying to win the breakup and no one cares about the relationship anymore. Should we get into mom talk? Mom talk. That's good.

All right. Wrapping up Bachelor riveting news. Mom talk. Amanda, set the stage. Since you're in it, that up Bachelor. Riveting news. Mom talk. Amanda set the stage. Since you're in it, that's fine. Set the stage. I'm going to say a few buzzwords. Swingers.

Cheating. Soft swingers. Soft swinging. Mormon. Mormon. Mom talk. Friends. So as kind of Nick alluded to in the intro,

this is something that has become a sensation on the Internet that began with one woman, Taylor, announcing her divorce from her husband. In announcing this divorce, the story that we were fed as the general public was that they had an arrangement where they and certain friends, she didn't name names, but everybody sort of like patched together from internet, but not. It was some other prominent Mormon moms from MomTalk, had a practice of having parties where they would get drunk, but they say it was completely consensual, and then a soft swing and hook up with either each other's husbands or each other. swing and hook up with either each other's husbands or each other yeah however there was a policy to quote not go all the way between taylor and her husband that she violated and so was it all the way i i thought the policy was they just couldn't do other stuff without like the approval and not being in the same room like in the the presence or like in the same part at the same party, but like not, it was both.

There was both of those stipulations. It was, they had to be together and it couldn't go all the way for sex. So it was a two part kind of needle between them. Okay. Now I, like I said, I talked to Taylor,

so I quickly reached out and thought this is, Mormons, religion, sex, swinging. This is perfect for our podcast. So there's something that I thought to myself, she was quick to respond and quick to say, I want to come on. And then I was just like, I need to vet this out a little bit before. And I saw someone suggest

that it might be for attention or for clout and that so and then since then that that is that has been a speculation by many that and i think it's something that's still being speculated that it's still for clout so we jumped on the phone with taylor shanti and myself and right off the bat she was very nice and right off the bat she i was like i'll be honest i'm not familiar with who you were until this like can you just bring me up to speed and she talked about how most of her stuff she puts on tiktok she said is satirical and i was like well what is so she goes but this is real like okay and like what do you mean by satirical and apparently she there was a moment in time where some of her followers thought she was a

50 some year old woman she leaned into that right she wanted that exactly and like she she was like and when talking about it on a podcast was like yeah it was just like a bit i thought was so funny that people kept believing it but she kept but she kept she started it she started it and like went with it and i was like okay so but then she's like she's like unfortunately this is real and she sounded really sad about it she's like i am getting a divorce with my husband i'm like okay and and then i asked her, like, well, so what's going on here? And she said essentially what you guys all said is that she said that it was a group of friends. Like there were like three or four couples. And I, three couples.

And thank you, Shanti. And I asked, is there any other couple that's an influencer, part of this mom talk? She said one other couple. Oh, that haven't been on the TikToks. There were six people included, three couples. Her and her husband were one of the couples. And one of the other couples were influencers. Okay.

And she, yeah. So she was like, yeah, I did this shit. She sounded sad. She did. She sounded sad like she was like yeah i did this shit i she sounded sad she did she sounded sad like this was like she was getting divorced but she acknowledged that she did this and that she was wrong uh she seemed a little frustrated with the situation assuming it's all true she said i did this i definitely broke these rules yeah but it was of like, we all played with fire kind of thing. And now, you know,

but I guess I, I did this shit and now I'm getting divorced. And, and so I was like, all right, well, are you down? And I was like,

are you down to come in and talk about it? Cause my whole thought was like, maybe she'll come on and we'll talk about it. I think there's a lot of fascination with the Mormonormon religion i asked her like how how mormon are you like i'm like i was raised catholic i haven't gone to church in a few years and she she seemed to be that type of mormon where she's like she said she went to church on easter and christmas she said she's still like you, thought like she got some sense of community from it, but she didn't seem to be a very. Someone who's like religiosity showed up very regularly.

Yeah, she obviously was, she acknowledged that they were drinking a lot. Like that's one thing she emphasized is that these parties, they were just getting hammered. Yeah, that's, I mean, what I was going to say is like, for sure she was playing with fire. And I do empathize too, because I'm like, if you're plastered and the rule is like, you can't go all the way. I'm like, that is just a bit difficult to just be like, and we have these regular dry hump parties or something where I'm just like, you're going to eventually get to the point where that is, gets a little messy or gets a little blurred or something and she said how they she she acknowledged that she started developing feelings for one of these other people and then um so we left and i was like all right well and then i was like well do you think you're you're would you're like because i'm like in a perfect world I'd love your husband to come on too I'd love to get a both sides of the story because she also made it seem like she would was still like in pretty decent communication like it was more like

the way she described it was he was divorcing her out of a matter of principle it was like we had a rule you broke a rule and I said if you break like, we had a rule, you broke a rule. And I said, if you break this rule, we're going to get divorced. You broke the rule. And now you're forcing my hand. But the way she was describing it, and again, this is this one person's story. And keep in mind, this person pretended to be a 50-year-old person in the past. So who knows? But she made it seem like no one wanted to get divorced but they broke a rule so i was like well why don't you both come on and let's talk about it and she's like i'll ask them and then i was like okay and we got off the phone and then i was like well thanks for chatting with us i hope

you can make and i was like i'm actually i was i gave her the soft clothes which was the presumptive clothes look forward to having you on because and then she wrote back hope we can make it work immediately that was a shift from i can fly out to la uh and i was like okay and quickly you could tell she was either getting cold feet and then and then she mentioned how like you know and not surprisingly she's like it was involving a you know it's it's getting messy and then she claimed that she was served a cease and desist order um as of as recently as yesterday to shanti oh interesting which and then now there's all these rumors that it's definitely fake ally reached out to two of the other more prominent Mormon mothers. One of them got back to us.

And also very nice. We reached out to a Miranda and we reached out to Camille. Miranda wrote back. She said she'll have to speak to her manager. But thanked me, thanked us. us thanked us for the inquiry and then and then wrote back a couple hours later after further consideration she is going to decline uh but hopes to come back on the podcast and under more positive uh situation i feel like one of these other two women might be one of the other couples. I don't

know. That's a speculation. I have no... So from what I was reading online though, because they had this kind of understanding but couldn't go all the way, it just adds to the complexity of it because it's not like Taylor one day decided to go have an affair with her friend's husband. From what I was reading online, the rumors are that Taylor, you know, went all the way with Victoria's husband, but that Victoria had done stuff with Taylor's husband.

So it was kind of a flip flop. Taylor just took it one step too far. So it's like, well, it's just so complex. Yeah. Yeah. So here's my big question is,

like, I feel like non-traditional relationships are on the rise. Mm-hmm. And I'm just curious as to, like, what do we think about that? And I feel like there's going to be, I think part of the fascination is one, it's,

there's always fast. Say it's always fascinating because it's different. Yeah. But two, I think there's also a curiosity. A lot of people have, it's kind of like, ah,

and then it's like, tell me more. Yeah. A little bit more because like, yeah, societally we've only just gotten to a point where the instant reaction is an ew sin. True. Right. When it comes to like any kind of like sexual practice that isn't like monogamous. Like, yeah, societally, we've only just gotten to a point where the instant reaction is an ew, sin.

True. Right? When it comes to, like, any kind of, like, sexual practice that isn't, like, monogamous. Think about the quick oral history of marriage. And this is very quick. But, like, it used to be women were basically traded as objects between families. And they were property. They were property. And, like, some of the, it property and like some of the it's crazy some

of the initial marriage documents of the country it's like a man has the right to correct a woman in whatever like means he sees fits like it was all truly bizarre i think mormon has more of a poly marriage scenario right there is that element Yeah. That's also a whole nother wrinkle. It makes me think that's why this like maybe was brought up or like happened

is because like I think that you're allowed to have multiple wives in like extreme Mormonism, but it seems like they were kind of casual Mormons. It seems like Taylor at least,

I can't speak for the other people, that she identified to us as a far more casual Mormon. But I don't know the role. I'm really iffy on... There's obviously the reality TV show that exists. Sister Wives.

Sister Wives. They're Mormon. But I feel like that's more of a niche group of Mormons. Yeah. I don't... Yeah. On Wikipedia, it says today of a niche group of Mormons. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. On Wikipedia it says today, various denominations of fundamentalist Mormonism practice polygamy.

Yeah. But like that's polygamy is definitely different than swinging. Yeah. And soft and swapping and soft swinging. Yeah. Any type of swapping. So while both non-traditional practices completely different.

And I think it was said that the women would sometimes also hook up. Yeah. Okay. The women hooked up too. There was some.

Okay. I think so. That was out there. Yeah. Okay. Some exploration. LGBTQ

involvement. right? Do you think this is going to lead to more soft-swinging groups? A soft-swinging revolution? Yeah. I just imagine a couple in bed, sort of like neither one being the one who wants to say it, being like, so did you see that Mormon couple soft-swinging? Like crazy, right?

Unless... Is soft-swinging anything but sex because like what about oral because i feel like i got the impression oral was going on me too i think it's anything but all the way and all the way seems like yeah yeah but like i if you're if you're performing oral i mean you might as well just go all the way. Right? Yeah, because I feel like now that I think of it, I'm like, I think maybe if you were going to draw boundaries, maybe it would make sense to regulate orgasms. How do you do that?

If you have an accidental one, you're in trouble. I think that doesn't work. Of course. and you're in trouble, I think that doesn't work. Of course. I just mean, like, not within the soft swapping. Like, I don't know. No judgment to however people want to do this,

but, like, I think maybe to me it would make more sense to distinguish between, like, fooling around, but not to the point of, like, people coming. I mean, you put a married man who's maybe, like, hasn't hooked up with his wife in years and and put him in front of you know anyone he's attracted to it might not take much so I feel like that's a very also a bit like boundary to enforce yeah then I'm also like what are you doing it for you might well I mean I feel like there's yeah but I don't know so like we've gone from the old-fashioned like marriage being a form of property exchange. We evolved in like the early 1900s, mid 1950s where that wasn't happening. But like basically you got married fresh out of high school or college to the first person you liked or loved in your early 20s had a couple kids and then you know marriage

at that point people just kind of drank themselves into a coma uh moms would stay at home dads would go to the the rotary clubs they kind of it was it became more of like a partnership they paid each other eventually slept in separate bedrooms and then died like that that used to be marriage good old days the good old days and then you know divorce became more prevalent so then people you know now we can get divorced okay now we get divorced and marriage just has evolved and now with dating being what it is and the world's become smaller and more accessible through all this technology now meet anyone can meet anyone anywhere at any time. Temptation has never been more rampant than ever before. And I just feel like to make marriage work, a lot of people are going to start resorting to these non-traditional forms

of relationships because it's just like, would you rather have me lie to you? I feel like this is just the beginning of what is going to be more heavily considered and talked about. I think this is an exact reason not to. We've seen now how this plays out with boundaries. When they get broken are devastating still and whether that boundary is you're not allowed to look at anyone else or if it's the soft swinging thing

I think in general boundaries are always going to get pushed a bit and that's going to, I don't know, I'm like I don't think this is a success story It's definitely not but I think you make a good point like we were talking about earlier maybe we should have brought in

an expert swinger or somebody who's already participating successfully in these types of relationships. But it does seem rather difficult to enforce like this soft swinging thing, because it's like once you crack the seal, it's like trying to eat a soup dumpling. You know? Yeah. You just have to put the whole thing in your mouth. You can't take a bite of a soup dumpling. It's just like the soup's going to get everywhere. It's just going to be a mess.

You know? Amazing metaphor. It really worked. But yeah, because like, oh, no, you can't look. You can't kiss. No tongue. Oh no only oral just touching like one finger two fingers sex only sex for two seconds no orgasm like what the fuck yeah like it's just either you're going to allow yourself to be tempted and explore having a connection with anyone else but your husband or wife or you just

don't right i also think sometimes setting boundaries can make the other side look even more tempting. I'm like, if you're just like, okay, and now you can like not go all the way, then it's like kind of all you want to do is go all the way now. The Bachelor is a show that is designed on building relationships through withholding love. That's how they do it.

They introduce you to someone and then they pull you away. They're always pulling you away. It's the pulling away that like, and then you don't get to hang out with the person that you had a momentary flickle of a connection, a fickle or whatever the word I want to- Flicker. Flicker, thank you, of a connection with. And then you- Put it on a pedestal. Put it on a pedestal and you think about it for three days while you watch other people get to spend time with

that same person. That's how the show works. And that's kind of what this soft swinging is, is it's just a little taste. Yep. But then we're going to pull it away from you. And then what you get to do, to your point, K.P., you get to long for it. You get to fantasize. You get to wonder about it.

And now when you're having sex with your husband and wife, what do you think you're thinking about? Right. Just go ahead and do it. Just have sex with them and get it out of your system i i would be yeah because like how many times have we had sex with people and then thought i'm good later i'm good yeah all right now i know yep you know how many did you know there's also a bachelor connection in this story i just found out today how so that there a Bachelor connection in this story? I just found out today. How so? That there is a girl in this group, Camille Monday. Last name Monday. Oh, who we, yeah.

Okay. She did not respond to us. Camille Monday married to, I don't know, let's call him Mr. Monday. Can't remember his first name. His little brother is Joe Monday. Joe Monday is married to a person that came out of a race car on Ari's season. There's a lot of people we don't remember. Of course. But she was on the show.

She was on the show. So she's in there. I mean, Bachelor Nation has a pretty strong, prominent Mormon connection. Sure. The casting people in The Bachelor love, love casting as they describe as fallen Mormons. Oh, because they're ready to let loose. They're kind of on their rumspringa. Yeah. I think there's a level of rebelliousness, uh, that they have is I think the perception, I don't know how true that is, but they, there's been a lot of, uh,

former Mormons, uh, on the, on the bachelor. So that, that So that connection doesn't surprise me. That's something I really appreciate about LA in particular, but any cities, is that people come from such different backgrounds. And I think whenever I meet someone, and sometimes someone will casually mention me, like, oh yeah, I was in a super religious household. I never celebrated my birthday until I was 21.

Stuff like that. And it's really fascinating how you can have this like all-encompassing religious experience only to then kind of like integrate into more like mainstream communities. Oh, good point, Shanti. Another thing Taylor told us is that this all started, according to Taylor, to satisfy like her husband's sexual desires after they had two kids. It kind of seemed like she was blaming him. Or just really sad about it. She was trying to appease the husband's sexual desire after having two kids. And I think she admits she made a

mistake, but was also just super sad because she was like well i was trying to make sure that the husbands got the sex they needed she still effed up right but sad well there was also uh an element of this was like people were talking about them sleeping in separate beds and it wasn't like and she was like it's not indicative of any like divorce you weren't like separate or anything it was just for like convenience of sleeping. But it does kind of like add a little bit of context of maybe like there is a lack of like sexual happiness in this relationship at a given time that maybe makes them more willing to experiment. Do we believe this Taylor?

Do we believe Taylor? Because she did go on a podcast like a month ago and like loosely talk about this whole situation before it became a scandal. And then she's done TikToks referring to like whether she believes in having more of an open marriage. I was very not because I think like when you build your platform around clickbait-y things

like I'm 50 or like, you know, you know, stirring the pot just to get views. I think when that's your reputation, I want to be like, whoa, what an ultimate way to stir the pot is to like create this big divorce swinging drama. But it does seem like a lot of them are like pretty broken up about this. And like it has extended beyond what seems like a clickbait ploy. And like many of them are like, I up about this and like it has extended beyond what seems like a clickbait ploy and like many of them are like i don't want to talk about it so maybe i do well the thing is well there's an explanation potentially for that because you have all the there's like a large there's like a handful of these moms yeah right it's not just two or three there's like a group and i think you know with

this this these types of rumors there's always a lot of assumptions made so i'm guessing that every mom in this group was asked or even accused of being part of this group i think the first assumption was like this is john like everyone who's part of this mom talk is part of the swinger group yeah and so there's probably a lot of wanting to distance themselves from this. Right? So there could have just been that. But also like, yeah,

she's like, she definitely has done some satirical things, but isn't this the last straw? Like if it is a lie? This is like. Yeah. Come on. And they have kids. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, come on. And there are kids, they have kids.

Yeah. And I'm like, this seems, it seems a little too much to like, where do you go from? No, one's going to believe you anymore. Right.

It's one thing that like, she's clearly not 50. Yeah. So like, it was like, okay, you know, you're trying to improve the gullible,

but like, this is a very believable story. It's like, okay. Yeah. Like Mormons who are like, at least the perception of people who, can prove the gullible but like this is a very believable story it's like okay yeah like mormons who are like at least the perception of people who aren't mormon for mormons is a lot of shame around section a lot of pressure to get married very young and start a family maybe before you

would otherwise want to and then get to your like mid to late 20s and realize maybe they're you've lost that love and feeling with your partner you have a couple kids and you start then you you pull away from the church and you start exploring more non-traditional forms of of sex in relationships like it's a very believable situation but i also think it's the kind of thing where like i think there's a lot of people who are probably very upset with this portrayal because like there's a lot of people who practice polyamory in a way that's super respectful that's super consensual that respects partners boundaries and i think this idea of like oh one thing leads to another like if you are gonna engage in an open relationship of course you're gonna cheat like i think that's something that for a lot of people who are in open relationships or are polyamorous they're

sort of like excuse me like this is not my experience. I guess. But I feel like no one, she certainly didn't describe herself to us as some sort of like expert in this. It definitely came across as exploratory and like experimental. And she, you know, when we talked to her, she certainly acknowledged that like maybe they got it wrong, so to speak. And I think this whole, all these non-traditional forms of like relationships i think are in fact like just by definition experimental i don't know if there's a right

or a wrong way for people if you lie about it if you lie about it and like one of the part aspects of your lie is like and i cheated and we were swinging like i think like then it's kind of like yeah someone commented or a few people did commented that like they're doing this to get a like, and I cheated, and we were swinging. Like, I think, like, then it's kind of, like. Yeah. Someone commented, or a few people did, commented that, like, they're doing this to get a reality show. To, like, go for the big win here would be they get their own reality show, this group. And that was just, like, speculation in the comment section. But I was like, that's interesting to me,

is, like, maybe they're keeping it kind of vague, not going on podcasts keeping it like whatever so that they can get the big fish here we are perpetuating the the story yeah i don't know i mean it's possible but like so wait so it's you're saying that the rumor is it's true the story's true and now they're pulling back from say coming on a hit podcast to talk about it and flying to LA but because they're going for the reality tv show I think even the true or not true like almost doesn't matter but what I've heard is not what I've heard what I've read from some people in the comment section is they want to go for the reality tv show that would be the big money right

yeah I've also heard like interest in in being on Real Housewives, Salt Lake City. So it's like there's definitely some clout chasing accusations. Oh, I think they're probably all guilty of clout chasing, but there's a difference between clout chasing and this story. And I think if she made up the story, I think that would not serve her well to getting a reality TV show. Because anyone can make up any lie about anything,

but if there's nothing there, and if your whole platform, again, this has created so much noise. Is it possible she thought this would be right in the ballpark of pretending she's 50? Maybe. She doesn't sound stupid to me. She sounds pretty clever. And you would think, you know, faking a divorce and involving other families with kids that are involved, I just, I don't know. It just seems a little too much for a lie. Because if it is a lie, she's done.

Yes. And I think if it was trying to really get a reality show or whatever, names would be named, right? Whoever else wants to be on this big reality show would also be named. And it would be this whole Real Housewives-y type drama back and forth videos, back and forth videos. But it seems like there's just a lot of regret from everyone else involved and from her. So I don't think that ploy, if it is that, is the right way or like working. Yeah.

I mean, this is this fan speculation. I don't, yeah, that's not the way to go about getting a reality TV show. The way to do it would have been like to just, like you said, come forth. Say, we do it would have been like to just, like you said, come forth, say we do this thing and it's weird and different and judge all you want. But this is who we are.

Yep. Final thoughts on mom talk. I think it happened. I think it happened. Yeah. I think it's beyond clickbait. I think she's wants to be in the limelight, but I think she is sorry.

I think there's a chance that there was one party where she got kind of drunk and made out with her friends and she's exaggerating. That's my guess based off no evidence. But she's getting divorced. I think that was, I think there were other marital problems. glamorous like we are not willing to make sacrifices in the way that you need to make sacrifices for your partner or whatever other like very real things contribute to a relationship falling apart I think it's a lot easier to find something very tangible and very exciting that has a lot of shock value even though it's still devastating if it's true at least it's like this isolated crazy incident as opposed to like on a daily basis, the person I'm spending all of my time with no longer wants to move through life with me.

Do you think all these influencers that for mom, mom talk like most of us have never heard of it until this thing. So no matter what, they'll always forever be thought of as Mormon swingers. There's Mormon swingers. Oh yeah.ers. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Which sounds like a really fun, like dance group. The Mormon swingers. You know, Mormon swingers. Yeah. Not going to be good for the brand deals. I don't know if like,

uh, there's always a shady brand. Yeah. Like a sex toy brand. And again, we don't, we don't shame any alternative lifestyles on this show, you know,

to each their own. And I do think it's going to be more and more commonplace as society evolves and dating apps continue to make it so easy to meet anyone, anywhere, at any time. We are in deliberation with the Johnny Depppp and amber her trial thank god finally it's coming to an end have you thought we've we've been following it closely i think it's hard not to yeah there's been so many tiktoks and stuff so i've seen i feel like i've been following ish so two two questions i just want to pose to everyone uh what do we think is going to happen and how would you vote is it vote what would you decide yeah what would you verdict yeah what would your verdict be what verdict would you deliver yeah

if uh if you were a member of the jury and now one thing uh thing Natalie pointed out to me is that in the closing arguments, it seemed like Camille specified that this case is about physical abuse. Right. Because last week we had Delora on who gave us some legal counsel. Oh, nice. And very helpful. And she articulated why this case is so on paper hard for Johnny to win, which is because this isn't about whether Amber abused Johnny or not. This is about whether Johnny abused Amber. So all they really have to prove is that Johnny abused Amber just once.

All the jury has to think, despite all that stuff out there, is that, well, I still think he abused her once. All the jury has to think, despite all that stuff out there, is that, well, I still think he abused her once. But it's my understanding in the closing arguments that Camille specified, and I don't know if this is actually true or how the jury is going to interpret it, that this is about physical abuse, not any other type of abuse. Now, I don't know if people, there might be people in the jury who don't make that distinction. They might just say abuse is abuse, which I think a lot of people would argue would be fair. That said, I wonder what is going to, how the jury is going to respond. Here's how I see it. And then I'm curious what you guys think. Amber was on the stand last week. And like, we don't really know what happened between Johnny and Amber.

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, I feel like. But it seems pretty clear at this point. Amber has lied multiple times on the stand. She got caught lying about, on her second time up, she's been on the stand multiple times so like and she's talked about both sides of her mouth so like in the beginning of the trial it was i don't write this op-ed about johnny i just wrote about like the grand like a more of a high level thing and then when she's being cross-examined by Camille, and basically she's getting called out for some of these,

well, as Camille suggested, lies, Amber, her defense of saying why everyone was lying but her was to say, well, people do crazy things for powerful men. And that was her defense. And then she went on to say, and that's why I wrote that op-ed about Johnny. That's why I wrote about Johnny. So like she acknowledged that. So that was a lie. She lied about, you know, one time she would never take MDMA with Johnny. Another time

she talked about how she did MDMA once with Johnny. And then there's the photograph of claiming it to be two separate photos, which is like, it's clearly not. It's the photograph of claiming it to be two separate photos which is like it's clearly not it's the same photo because every little one of her like fragmented hairs are the exact same spot and that's just like there's no hairspray in the world that's that strong and it's so she's lied multiple times and she's the way i see on the stand the way she's like she lied about like not seeing the the manager from hicksville she's like yeah i I see it on the stand, the way she's like, she lied about like not seeing the manager from Hicksville. She's like, yeah, I don't know. I've never seen him in my life.

It's so matter of fact, and like I know we use the word, I'm very critical about how people use the word gaslighting because it's wildly misused. But when I'm listening to her talk, it feels like she's trying to gaslight, I guess me or the audience audience because it's just like because gaslighting is when you're like truly trying to change someone's perspective of reality yeah so

like you catch your like partner cheating you're you're looking right at them and they're like yeah no i'm i'm not cheating on you it's it's that they're just they have no problem stating what everyone knows is true and they they're just like, no, just lying through their teeth with like, and they, and it looks like they believe their lie. So we've seen her lie. And I'm just, and I feel like the way people respond to liars,

especially now, it's just like, we hate liars more than anyone. I think when people like portray themselves to be one way, and then we realize them to be something else. And it makes me wonder, I feel like the jury, if they think she's lying, they might read Johnny's text and say, these are disgusting texts. about so many things. I feel like some, I think it wouldn't be unlikely for the jury to give her, give Johnny Adept a pass on some of these texts, despite them being pretty gross and wrong.

But their argument is, what would you do if you were being essentially blackmailed, if you were being lied about, if you were being accused of these horrendous things would you not want to vent your frustrations to your friends via text and i feel like are all these texts that he sent to friends are any of these to to her i don't know that it's fair to call that venting oh yeah it's threats they're weird i mean i don't know like i vent to my friends all the time and i don't talk about fucking someone's corpse again i wouldn't write that i think it's gross but i'm just wondering if you're a jury member and if you if you got if you were being lied about if you if you got accused of if you believe that she's lying right again because this is not about whether she abused him because that's not that has nothing to do with the verdict. But it has been heavily discussed in this case.

And so if you think that she has been lying about these things, and now you're here, and now, okay, we think Amber's lying. But now we have to decide, what do we make of these texts? That's the big question. But if you think she's lying, and you think that she came up with this whole campaign, and you think she's lied about this whole campaign and you think she's lied about these photos and you think she's lied about all these things you wouldn't like be pushed to say some horrendous things that you might say i don't know man i was just like you know again we know

he's like texting your friends horrible things despite how horrible they are are not abuse right but i guess it's it's all setting these people up to be total villains to get the point right is to like yeah like set amber up as a liar to the jury it doesn't matter whatever whatever we just want to say she's a liar so that the jury votes our way is what I'm sure Camille wants. Sure. Yeah. And then we just want Johnny to look, you know, like an absolute violent man so that we get what we want. So I think it's like tricky to say, to go back to the facts, the legal facts are like, it doesn't matter who's a liar, who's a this, who's a this it's did Johnny hit Amber. But I, so I agree with you.

I think the jury is going to I think they are going to say that he didn't well there hasn't been any evidence to suggest that he has other than her testimony her pictures of like bruises and stuff but yeah that's its own thing yeah so the only correct the only evidence we have are pictures that she has provided that shows she has bruises, but there's been a lot of evidence to contradict or at least question

the authenticity of that evidence. Yep. And then other, so that's all you have to go on. And it's still a big if though. What would you, what would your verdict be i find my i i was so i watched her cross-examination last friday and i was i was

i really i've been really trying to hold back judgment and really because it's so much fandom out there and so much like instant reactions but like watching her on the stand and what to me seemed like just absolutely lying through her teeth and having no problem doing it. I think it's just like a scary, icky feeling I got. and and i think it was if someone's that if someone's so capable of lying about those things that that's what i know right and so i would i would i would lean towards uh leaning towards johnny's side after especially at for me her last cross-examination I thought was very damning for her in my eyes. I'm going to go team Amber. I mean, not strong. I don't want to, but I do think-

As a jury. Yes, as a jury. I think that, yeah, if we're trying to prove that this man even one time was violent I think of the bevy of pictures the weird violent texts speak the this and this and this I don't have a lot of issues being like yeah I think this is a violent uh man and I do think that like one of these pictures has got to be to me the direct result of some violence from him. I think I'd go, yeah, I'd go yes. Yeah, I'm in this similar boat

where I think I would be very curious to hear the judge remind me and break down exactly what is the burden of proof on this case. Because I think the fact that the burden of proof is on Johnny works in his disadvantage because obviously it's like a huge shit show. They both are guilty of atrocious things. I think Amber Heard is like

really I like really disgusted with a lot of her like behavior and the way like she has been co-opting certain energy and movements etc. But that being said like yeah i don't i think in terms of like all the things that like delara break broke down like there's just so many different things that all need to fall into place for it to be defamation that i don't think you can concretely say it was not yeah no i definitely can't concretely say it was or like it was defamation right to your point is that what they have to do? Do you have to say, I definitely know he didn't, otherwise Amber wins? Because, yeah, then you're right.

Yeah. Well, because he's the plaintiff. So he's the one who's being like, she defamed me. So it needs to be, and in order for it to be considered defamation, it needs to meet those strict standards that we broke down last week. If his team has to prove without a doubt, he definitely did not abuse her in any way. I don't see how he wins. Agreed. And also that the article was about him, which obviously we all know it was.

But then also that that article specifically is the reason that he faced repercussions from why he was dropped from all of his various professional endeavors. There's just a lot of things that need to line up perfectly. I think there's a chance of a jury won't think that way when deciding and they will see her the lot. They'll,

they'll just say, she's the liar. She lied. And they will empathize with his situation enough that I think that's his chance of winning is them to basically not follow the rules. Because I feel like by the letter of the law, it if we're if we're understanding it correctly i don't see how he has a chance to win because no one can say no one's going to bet their life on the fact that he never did anything right i agree but sometimes yeah juries just start going on vibes of like yeah i just want to reward

this person that was the word the one. Or punish the person. Yeah. Because, again, if you watch Amber and, like, that type of lying, I think, it's scary. It's scary that people are so good or so willing to lie. It's a mess. But we'll see what happens. I hope it's soon. Yeah. Please end this this i think it will be

people are thinking it'll go quick all right it's time for texting office hours let's uh bring on our caller how's it going good how are you good what's your name i'm leila hi um and i'm 25 years old. Great. I need help drafting a text to a first hinge date that I went on, but we've been on two dates total. I've been texting him like here and there, like after the dates and before the dates. But after the dates, he'll always say like, we should do it again sometime, like had a great time. And I'm like, yeah, me too. After the first one, never really heard from him. He said that he had like a busy week. And finally I just like went out there and texted him and I was like, Hey, I'm free. Like if you want to get a drink again. And he was like, yes. And then he kind of said the same thing after the second date,

he was like, had such a great night with you. would love to do it again. So I texted him back and I was like, yes, like when you're free, let me know. So then we could plan something. And he was like, sounds good. And then we just had like some small talk. And then that was kind of the end of it. And I have a feeling like, like, this is the second time he's done that. So I'm like, do I text him again when I want to go on another date? Like, I know he's in, he has like a trip this week. So like, I know like last week and this week, I wasn't going to be hearing from him, but I have a feeling like when he gets back, he won't be texting me, you know, because me because it's already happened.

It's already happened twice. After the first date, he was like, oh, I'm busy this week but would love to touch base and hang out the following week. But then he never reached out the following week. So you made the second date happen? I made the second date happen

because after the first date, he was like, I would love to do it again Like let's like go again, but I have a busy week. So like let's touch base the following week so we could plan something and I was like totally like Let's do that. And then he never reached out. So and I was like, okay Am I supposed to reach out because he said like let's touch base, you know, so that's why I reached out because it's He he was incredibly vague so right so that's why the second time when he said after the second date and he was like had a great

time like would love to do it again i was like okay when you're free you text me you said that yeah i said um are you having i i know you have a busy next couple of weeks. So text me when you're free and we can plan something. So just to recap, you met him on Hinge. You had a nice date. He had fun, so he says. Gave a very vague, you know, let's hang out again sometime. Yeah.

And then you followed up with him. Good for you. You wanted to get great. Thank you again sometime. Yeah. And then you followed up with him. Good for you. You wanted good. Thank you. Amazing. Yeah. You had a nice second date. About the same as the first.

Once again. Longer. Yeah. Once again to the vagueness. When he's in person with you, he's like in it. He's not like being vague and weird and distracted. No, like I like after the first day, I was like, wow, like he's amazing. And then after the second date, we were like on the date for like eight hours.

And he was the one that was like, let's go to this bar. Like, let's go here. I just think everyone's a fuck boy until they meet someone they don't want to be a fuck boy for. Yeah. Yep. And I don't include just men. I think everyone. Yep.

Like dating apps. I think everyone, if you're part of hookup culture, you're out there, you're dating. Just assume everyone's a fuck boy until they want to stop being a fuck boy for you it also brings out the worst in people online dating is just like yeah i don't blame him for sending that picture because i think if somebody cancels i could see somebody else yeah great well you're done one strike you're out yeah i think so i'm like it's online dating is so tough. So great. And to KP's point, everyone's like, you know, sometimes they have these like, the way people protect themselves for other people having so many options is having these very like

rigid rules, which I guess it's good to have these boundaries and non-negotiables. But in a world where you don't know these people, like I think everyone has to be a little understanding and flexible at first and at least get to know people before they start writing people off. All right. Let's dramatic read this. On a separate note, I would love to go out again sometime. This week weekend isn't great for me, but I'm free next week if you're up for it.

Yeah. That's a little tee hee hee emoji. That actually works better for me too. Perfect. Sounds good. Well, I hope you have a great week slash weekend. He's just likes to get it all in one.

Let's catch up sometime next week to see when you link up a smiley emoji face and you hearted that. Love that. I hope you have a great week too. And happy almost Cinco de Drinko, lol. Yeah, you too. Going to be a comedy show tomorrow in Venice. May take

your recommendation, end up at Winston House, lol. You guys are just really laughing. You guys are making each other laugh like crazy. OMG, yeah, you'll have to tell me what you think. Party emoji. Okay, and then that was... That was Wednesday, May 4th, and now we're fast forwarding to tell me what you think. Party emoji. Okay. And then that was. That was Wednesday, May 4th.

And now we're fast forwarding to Monday, May 16th. How old is this guy? He's 28 and I'm 25. Okay. And what happened between the 4th and the 16th? Nothing. Like we, I think we texted like that. The 4th we texted a lot. Oh yeah. Not really.

No. Yeah. That was, were there no conversations? No conversation. And were you just kind of hoping he would reach out and like follow through on linking up that following? Yeah. Yeah. That's why I waited until like the following week. Cause I was like, oh, like Monday, he won't reach out. Like, I'm sure like he'll reach out like Tuesday or Wednesday. And then he didn't. And then I was like, OK, maybe Thursday. And he's hoping for a weekend. But then he didn't. And then I was like, OK, I'm not going to reach out like that.

And then some of my friends were like, just reach out. Like, who cares? And then I was like, OK, like I'll reach out like I'll see. And then he clearly like after I reached out it seemed like he wanted you know what I mean like he was top like texting me and like planning the next one so I don't know maybe he just sucks at texting but then again I don't know he just has other things going on uh and then all right so then you pick it back up on the 16th. Hey, how was your weekend? I'm around this week if you want to grab drinks again.

Hey there. Smiley face. He wants you to know he's in a good mood. No, I hate that smiley face that he uses. It's awful. It's a bad one. No cheeks. It is a bad one. Had a great weekend. Lots of time on the beach and got a ton of sleep, So I feel great for a Monday.

He's still laughing. How was your weekend? Yeah, I would love to. I'm free Friday and Saturday if that works for you. Well, that's good. He gave you a couple very specific options. Love that. Misspelled too.

Sounds like a chill weekend. I'm jealous, lol. My weekend was good. Spent it in Temecula with some of my friends. Friday works for me. You gave him that smiley face right back. That's a chill weekend. I'm jealous. Lol. My weekend was good. Spent it in Temecula with some of my friends. Friday works for me. You gave him that smiley face right back. That's a good one. The normal smiley face.

Nice. Never been there. I've heard good things. Perfect. I'm free anytime after 6 p.m. Are you more into wine or getting cocktails? Did you respond to that? Yeah.

I said something like cocktails sound great or something and then okay then you then you sounds good just checking to make sure our plan's still on hey yep uh oh then okay so so this is the kicker so the first date our date was at like 7.30 and he never checked in that day or morning or afternoon for the date. And I ended up writing out a text at like 5.30 and I was like, I'm going to send this text at 6. And he ended up texting at like 5.45. Hey, are we still good for 7.30? And I was like, yeah, sounds great. And then the second date, which was the May 20th text that you guys have,

I texted at 535 because our date was at 630. So I would have to leave at like six. And I texted because I didn't hear from them all. Like, you know, like two instances, we texted on Tuesday. That's why I said, hey, just checking in to make sure our plans are still on. And I was like, I literally was like, I'm going to get ghosted for the second date. Like I was so convinced. Why? And why'd you, because I feel like guys should, or at least in the past, like guys have been like in the morning or afternoon. Hey, or the day before, Hey, are we still good for tomorrow?

Are we still good for tonight? But like, why is it, why is it specific to the guy? I mean, Yeah, I mean, that would definitely... But, like, why is it specific to the guy? I mean, why didn't one of you just doing it earlier? Well, because she's done everything else. She said to make every date sense. I know, but she's pursuing him. I mean, she wants to date him. She's Jason.

Yeah. I'm just saying, like, you just psyched yourself out, I guess is what I'm saying. Oh, for sure. For sure. I was like, oh my God, he hasn't texted me. I would do the same. It's been four days. You made a plan four days ago.

And then he hasn't said a thing until 30 minutes before you have to leave. I would be like. After I texted to make sure that we were still going. And then he goes, yeah, just got done getting ready. And he replied like 20 minutes later. So he replied like almost 6 p.m. And I was like, oh my God. I mean, but, just got done getting ready. And he replied like 20 minutes later. So he replied like almost 6 p.m. And I was like, oh my God. I mean, but he was in fact getting ready.

Yeah. I guess I'm just like, I'm also, if the dates have been good and the chemistry has been good, I just would hope that like he has something to say within four days. KP is over him. But you want another shot on a date third date well i'm just wondering like i've already reached out the first time after coachella to see if he wanted to reschedule the first date after his car getting broken into and then i reached out after he was like oh after our first date and he was like i have a busy week but let's touch base so i pretty much like initiated

the second date if you want to call it that, you know? And now I'm like, do I reach out again? And I'm like, you know, obviously I think he's, I don't remember when he's gone, but I'm pretty sure he's gone like all week. So I'm like, do I just like give up on the kid? And if he wants to reach out to me, like he reached out and we, yeah, on the second date. Okay. Uh, so why do you want to hang out with him again i i think he's awesome like i think the first date and he was like honestly my first hinge date so i was expecting it to go like he's your very first hinge date is your first time like on dating apps yeah on dating apps but going on a pinch date, yeah, because I've either not gone because I'm like, no, or

it just hasn't worked out. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think there's nothing wrong with going out with him again. I think just have reasonable expectations. Like, he's... He sucks. Well, I think he's just very out of sight, out of mind at best.

I think he's like a little like in person, super in it it if you're not around though kind of forgets you exist he has no object permanence he's a baby he's just very he's casually dating and yeah it's not just him i think this is just the new normal of of how people not just guys are interacting in between dates often, unless they get like incredibly excited and knocked off their feet. But that's not necessarily a lot to go on, you know, because it could be,

you know, maybe they're excited for all the wrong reasons. So if you are interested in them, here's what I think the biggest takeaway is like, I think you're spending too much time keeping score about like what you're doing or how often you're reaching out and psyching yourself out like right now you know you're excited about him and we don't know how he feels about you so if you want to hang out with him i definitely think you should like stop worrying about how much he is like participating early on in texting just because

like you know you're excited and we just don't really know what this is yet yeah you might have to just be his schedule assistant for a bit and just be like Tuesday at six you around like you might have to just spell the dates and times out if he's great in person then yeah maybe it's worth it to just be like I'll just schedule our dates and that's just my role and he shows up and is good at least at first yeah right and then like if you go on a third date with him then maybe on date three you know you've hooked up you're on a third date and maybe at this point you have decided that you want to get some information from him and you want to see where he's going and on a third date like at the

end of if you go on a third date and at the end of the third date you're thinking the same thing after date one and two i'm having a really nice time this guy's great then you can just say hey i'm real like i really enjoy getting to know you and like i'd like to i mean i want to like i'd like to hang out with you like more often and just put yourself out there. Yeah. I feel like it kind of throws me off how like sometimes you're super responsive via text, but then like don't reach out. I wouldn't even say that yet because there's no expectations between the two of them now.

They've, they've, they've set up nothing. He's not doing anything wrong. He's just doing what he's doing. Yeah. I guess I'm like, you've given him so much rope here of like the comedy show even which is a red flag to go to a

comedy show as a comedian i'm just kidding it's fine uh but no he you were like you'll have to tell me what you think like that's such an alley of just like you're going to a place i'm interested here's a perfect text you can send and i think you've done that a few times of just like you're remembering all this stuff about him that he's going surfing about this and this and he just doesn't seem to text unless you kind of corner him so but that's why I'm like I don't want to like I feel like embarrassed to keep like making such an effort if like I don't see his effort there like unless we're like in person like you know and then I just like feel like an idiot I think Nick's right though I think like third date so low stakes and then you can be like

hey what's just your ego no one cares you know I'm saying who is he who is he telling it's not like he's going around me like there's this girl I'm going out with and boy she just keeps blowing me up but I'm going out with her for like out of so interested yeah she's like no one's that conversation's not happening you know what i'm saying like in reality what he is is kind of like probably like an aloof fuck boy who's like down who whose biggest priority right now is his buddies and his surfboard and he's down to open to like meeting women and going on dates and like maybe having sex and one of these women he's probably thinking is going to like, I'll want to date someday,

but that's going to be a process. Yeah. Push past all of his things. Yeah. So you have to decide whether a right off the bat, that is someone you're interested in, even though you've had two nights, nice dates,

he's not doing anything wrong. That's just like, you just have to know what you're getting yourself into. So that's what I'm saying. If you get a third date, because it sounds like if you text him, he'll probably go out with you again. Right? If you make yourself available and you schedule the date, he'll be down for probably. Right? And then you have to ask yourself when you go on this third date, what do you want to do? And you have have to like and if you listen to the show

never ask him what he wants just tell him what you want and what you're interested in and see what he says i feel like a lot of times in this and in people in your shoes will do that thing they'll like nag and like they'll like say something and all of a sudden you're like well did i do something wrong and it's just like you know no yeah i yes and i wish dating wasn't like this nowadays but this is how it's become in a far more casual kind of laissez-faire feel it out just go on dates and see where it goes and take it slow so and i don't even need like i don't need him and i don't want him to text me all the time but like like you said you said, when I'm like, oh, let me know how the bar goes. Like, because I'm the one that was like, you should try this bar.

Like, I'd love for him to text me after he goes or whatever. And it's like, oh, it was amazing. And like that be it, you know, but. Yeah. That's the thing. You're trying to get him to like, you're trying to like massage this like text conversation with him. Yeah. You know, like that, that's not gonna gonna want to

text yeah here's what i think you should text though if you have a habit of like recommend recommending places i would text them be like hey there's this place i want to go let's go this weekend are you free like when are you like we should check this place out yeah and see what he says yeah and then on the date if you have a good time other than like you've had fun like start thinking about what like do you really like this guy yeah it might not be long-term compatible if this is if he this is the way he's just always gonna be and like i just wait for life to come to me or like you know then it might just not yeah he's not doing anything wrong like nick said but it might not be right for you totally right yeah i agree that's what i'm starting to to realize that's why i'm

like why am i like so obviously i'm like bothered because like i like him so well i would say i would you're interested in him you don't even know if you like i'm interested i'm interested in him for sure you've got two dates with like a guy who's kind of nice and spacey yep so we're interested we don't like them yet we're interested yeah you're right you're right you should definitely go into like date three like trying to figure out if you do like them and you should be a little bit more of a skeptic you know yeah so you think i should reach out again. I think if you want, if you're still interested in him, I think it's totally fine to reach out. No one cares.

Only your ego. Like no one's having these conversations. No one's judging you. He's not going to be like, he clearly is down for people to follow up with him. Yeah. Yeah. And then worst case,

if he like, I worse, worst case is like, he doesn't say anything or he's just like not interested, whatever, but you were about to leave it anyway. Right. If you walked away right now, there'd be nothing else anyway. And then worst case, if he like, I have worse worst cases, like he doesn't say anything or he's just like not interested, whatever. But you were about to leave it anyway, right? If you walked away right now, there'd be nothing else anyway. So might as well try one last time if it is good in person.

If he doesn't respond the same day, I wouldn't go on that third date. Love that. The same day. Oh, okay. Interesting. You know, text him like early afternoon and give him the rest of the night. Give him like that day. I think that's

okay i think you should text back right away within an hour or two yeah like he's he's on a trip so i could ease and i don't remember when he's back but like i could easily text him like next week and be like hope your trip was amazing he's on a trip right now but it's been 10 days i think he he came he was on a trip for memorial weekend then he's coming back and he's here for like two days and then he goes coming back and he's here for like two days and then he goes like out of the country that's like all of june pretty much you know what i mean that's why i'm like okay this guy lives in venice he's got a surfboard he's backpacking across the world like this guy is not looking for a girlfriend he's putting emojis left and right

yeah like everything's cool with this guy he's not bothered by anything no he's not you know he reminds me of dean oh my god i'm picturing my friend dean if you think he's back now text him and be like hey hope you had fun there's this place i want to check out before you leave let's go no but seriously because like this guy's riddled with like he's not doing anything wrong but he's riddled with red flags of like why he's probably a waste of your time and not that there's anything wrong with him but he's just got to have other priorities going on in his life that like don't include you so right if he's willing to fit you in between like one trip and another trip that shows that maybe there's some interest there and And if he's not, then it's like, you're really going to be like on his schedule.

Yep. And you're, you're better off just like, you know, yeah. Going back on hinge. But I think you're wasting a lot of your energy on someone who's not wasting any of his.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's how like my roommates think of it too, because like, obviously I'm like, what the heck still haven't heard from him he just might be a much slower pace of willing to like prioritize someone that's fine and the truth is you're probably getting a little ahead of yourself by saying things like i like this guy when like you've been on two nice dates yeah and i'm like still dating there's got to be some pressure you're applying yourself for it

being your first hinge date and wanting it to work out. So you don't have to go back on there. There must, you know, like, I'm sure there's a little bit of like, you know what? That would have been great to just one and done it. Right. See where it goes, but like, try not to, don't put so much pressure on yourself. Try not to overanalyze it. Stop with the emojis. It's my biggest takeaway you know stop worrying about you texting so much if you like hey we're still on for tonight that's fine and send it like

earlier in the day not 45 minutes before you know yeah well that was because i was hoping that he would check in but this guy this guy is worried about nothing i know okay all right hopefully that was helpful yes it was thanks you guys all right thanks thanks bye he's that classic venice guy who's like picked up surfing you know has his job hangs out with his buddies he's 28 he's like so non-committal it's so that 28 year old venice guy is like a 19 year old wisconsin guy extremely true yeah it's just like oh yeah life will just come to me and then i'll say yes but i'm like he will never yeah never plan it out i feel like that's why there's this like toxic chase narrative is because i feel like with guys like that it is only in my experience it's been when you somehow like make it feel like you're it's not readily available

like kind of like wave it and then take it away that they'll actually engage and like it will like activate something within them which is not healthy or good it's like a i don't think it's planned i think it's really I think he really doesn't care. I think to your point he's waiting for the one that's going to make him interested enough to want a plan. And he's probably not even thinking about that. It's just right now his priorities

are his job, his buddies, and his surfboard and not necessarily that order. And it's just like he's down to meet cool people, women, go on dates, and the more chill and casual you are, the more he's interested in continuing to hang out with that person, not necessarily prioritize that person.

But someday some person is going to tell him that they want to be made a priority by this guy, and he will finally do it it's not gender exclusive anymore it's like chase who you want chase if you're excited you chase because yep guys aren't chasing as much anymore yeah not the fuck boys surfboards in venice lace up your sneakers, ladies. KP, thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me.

Such a delight. Thanks. Where can my audience find you? TikTok, Instagram? Yeah, TikTok and Instagram, same handle. But TikTok's where I've been playing lately. And the handle is KP, if that's cool. It's a really good follow. You're very funny.

Anywhere else people might be able to enjoy the things that you're doing? I do some live performing in LA with my group Best Actress if you like live comedy shows. Wonderful. Where can they find that? On my Instagram.

I'll post about it, but we have a show at the Elysian Theater June 7th. That'll be fun. Go check that out if you're in LA. Yeah. Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to send in your questions at

asknickatcastme.com. Tomorrow we got Fibula slash Connor Wood back with us to just debate with him why he decided to make me feel bad about the cuckold reckoning. The cuckold reckoning.

Get him. Drag him to hell. I'm Team Nick. No, it's all funny games. I'm team Nick. No, it's team Nick. All right. Well, we're with

Connor Fibula tomorrow. Until then, have a great day. Bye. You're crazy. Hey guys, thanks for watching. But before you go, make sure you like, subscribe, and ring that bell so you don't miss any future videos like our Monday's Ask Nick, especially if you're looking for some relationship stories and relationship advice, as well as our Wednesday interviews with your favorite

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