The Viall Files - E435 Going Deeper with Brian Austin Green and Sharna Burgess

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined by power couple Sharna Burgess and Brian Austin Green to catch up on the latest with their relationship and coparenting! You know Brian from his many acting roles, like Beverly Hills 90210 and Australian Ballroom Dancer, Sharna from Dancing With the Stars. Wonder what it’s like to co-parent with Megan Fox? On this episode we talk about dating without labels or expectations, finding love after the end of a marriage, getting pregnant when you’re a stepmom, and coparenting with Megan Fox in a way that is best for the kids. We also talk about having boundaries as a stepparent, how kissing changes everything, and how to not make your current partner pay for how your ex treated you. We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours caller who struggles after a fresh breakup when she adopted a dog with her ex-boyfriend. Now with the boyfriend refusing to emotionally express himself and claiming that the dog is entirely his, our caller wonders how to set up coparenting on terms that work for her.  “We haven’t focused on winning the relationship. Winning is for the kids.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Ten Thousand: Go to http://www.TenThousand.CC/VIALL to receive 15% off your purchase!  Fetch Rewards: Download Fetch now and use code VIALL and get 3000 points on your first receipt! → https://fetch.thld.co/viall_0622 EverlyWell: Everlywell is offering a special discount of twenty percent off an at-home lab test at http://www.Everlywell.com/VIALL Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @brianaustingreen @sharnaburgess See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi. Amanda is on a safari or something. She's in space. She's in space. No, Amanda's brother just graduated, so she's at her brother's graduation. Good for him. I had an interesting week last. i met the president oh i also drove his motorcade oh i was basically um assisting the secret service uh well by the time this episode comes out we'll have posted

i'll have posted on my instagram um i knew they were in town because uh yeah i was real press jill took my friend's soul cycle class yeah and you know not a this is not a political podcast whatever your political leanings are like you know how did this happen uh joe just like slid into your dms i had someone do some security work for me so they uh also do stuff with the secret service there's a loose affiliation i don't know i don't know what i'm supposed to be able to share or not share shanti's face our producer's face like at this whole conversation her jaw has just been on the ground no here's a here i'll interrupt this photo to you oh please do um well this is quite a shot quite a photo now you know i being uh do. Well, this is quite a shot.

Quite a photo. Natalie and I being, that's in front of the Beast. They call that the Beast. Okay. What are we about to see? This is me driving, but this is part

of the president's motorcade. So like he, you know, you have the president and then you have like a SWAT and then you have staff and then you have like media. So they closed on the freeway

and I was driving one of the cars. What? So was Natalie. So that's the president somewhere in front of us and i'm driving this is the coolest thing i've ever seen yeah it was pretty cool and that's me they're just uh this is insane just being all like secret service and shit this is is wild. Turns out, people who work for the White House, White House staff, huge Bachelor fans. Huge. Some people who do policy for this United States of America and work below the president, huge Bachelor fans. This is insane.

Love, love the Bachelor. Why was this not the first thing you told me this morning? Why did you say good morning? I wanted this type of authentic reaction. Why did you just good morning i wanted this type of and why didn't you just say i met the president yeah and uh and then at when we were done they graciously uh we had a chance because i honestly like during this whole we did it for two days i never saw the president you know he's you're kind of behind uh like doing other stuff and he's got stuff to do and uh afterwards they graciously uh let us take a photo with him and it's very like it's like meeting a king they're like they

introduce you uh-huh they're like they say your name you curtsy that's what i was like do i bow do i like what do you what do you do um and the president was very nice and like in 15 seconds you could tell like you know he's a politician so like he tried to like have a dialogue with every person like it was in a few other people it wasn't just natalie not i think natalie tried to flirt with him yeah in a very professional way but like you were it's the president you were just being used by natalie so that one day she could leave you for joe biden honestly like you were the step up she was like you know but she was like hi mr president you know she uh she was very very uh it was it was really funny to watch and joe was very uh mr president i don't think i can call him joe potus potus yeah potus um he was very nice and he and i don't know if this is him

being a pro because like you could tell like every person he met he tried to like have a little a bit a little bit like a like a like a relatable thing and i feel like it's possible i made the president slightly insecure hear me out i'm reaching here i'm reaching but can i flag this as a promo i'm putting this on instagram i'm reaching but you tell me okay you tell me i'm ready he was obviously wearing a suit the president wears a suit correct but it was like a it was a knee it was more of a casual suit like if if you're the for him it was probably like his version of sweatpants, right? Because there's probably a spectrum of- Like the swoot from New Girl.

Yeah. And the suit I wore to meet the president, a very sharp suit. And so when I met the president, he looks at me and goes, wow, you look really sharp. And then he goes, he's like, I usually look better than this.

But like, he's like, yeah, you look really sharp. He's like, no, but really I, I have to go do like a, uh, to a forest fire early today. He was trying to explain himself as to why he wasn't like dressed up nicer and, and, and multiple times like complimented my suit. So I was like, no, it's cool. Like, you know, I my God. But I don't know if it was just him being an absolute pro. Prez, you're good. Good job. But I really think it was just him being, I mean, he's been in politics his whole life. He's like, that's his conversation starter.

He's making you feel better. But I couldn't help but wonder. Oh, my God. And I literally was like, no, you look really great too, Mr. President. It was really nice to meet you. And that was it. Yeah. Well, the only interaction that I had through my friends was that Dr. Jill Biden took my friend's SoulCycle class.

He's a SoulCycle instructor. And the Secret Service was in the SoulCycle, obviously, with her. In the morning of, Miss First Lady went to SoulCycle. Yeah. And that was Diego's class. So if anyone wants a good SoulCycle, it's Diego. In Pasadena? Mm-hmm.

Yep. And the Secret Service people went up to my friend who was also taking the class and they were like, she's happy to be here, but just try to avoid talking about politics. And my friend was like, yeah, that's not the first thing I would do in the middle of a workout class. Like lean over and be like, so. I think you'd be surprised. I think a lot of people are like, like lean over and be like, so. I think you'd be surprised. I think a lot of people are like,

fuck up with the gas prices, Jill. They're tapping back on their bike. They're like doing pushups. She's like, I don't know. Just get my spin. So anyways, I met the president and I drove in his motorcade. So that was cool.

Interesting life experience. To be honest, it was a lot of sitting around. And we said yes to it just because obviously unique life experience. To be honest, it was a lot of sitting around. And we said yes to it just because obviously unique life experience. Yeah. We have an amazing episode. My dear friend Sharna

from Dancing with the Stars is here with her lover. We love Dancing with the Stars dancers with accents that live in Malibu. We're just going to keep bringing them back. I don't know.

Maybe it was a coincidence we had PETA last week. I got to know Sharna. We became friends. I don't know. Maybe it was a coincidence we had Peeta last week. I got to know Sharna. We became friends. I haven't seen her in a while. And then she had her baby shower. I'm like, oh man, I wonder if her and Brian would come on.

So we have her and her lover, Brian Austin Green, who I've always been a bit of a fan of. And what a fantastic interview. They were fantastic. Oh my gosh. A little kind of couple. They were fantastic.

They were great. So why don't we just get to them? Shauna, Brian, welcome. Thank you. How are you guys doing? Good. Yeah. So excited to have you guys here.

Yeah. Really good. This is beautiful. Brian, I need to nerd out a little bit, just total transparency. Fine. You were amused for me at some point in my life. Oh, really? Yeah. When I was in high school and you were on 90210.

I don't even know if it was 90210. It must have been like some other show you were doing. But there was like a good maybe like a year of my life where I dressed like Brian Austin Green. You're kidding. Wait, like 90s Brianrian austin green yeah yeah oh god like i did like the double t-shirt i definitely like there was some jewelry specific i dashed out my hair like him i just i remember i remember a moment where i was like i want to look like that guy and i just i get it you were so not to make you feel uncomfortable. He said, I'm sorry.

Oh, come on. You were our stud. I was just like, oh. And then one other thing. Where do your parents live? I think we're neighbors. Stop it right now. Are you kidding?

Across the street. That's the house I grew up in. That's what I thought. Because when I moved into my place like two years ago, it was Thanksgiving day. Yeah. And I was, it was during the pandemic. So I spent Thanksgiving like by myself.

Yeah. And I'm driving home. I'm like, is that Brian Austin Green in the front lawn? Yeah. And you were talking and it looked like- My dad. It looked like you were very comfortable with the people and you were just like hanging out.

I'm like, do his parents live there? Wow. So we're neighbors. That's crazy. So which house are you? Because I know that block really well. So I'm the house that they basically tore down and rebuilt. So that's across the street and like a house and a half down.

It's where like the houses don't line up across the street from each other. Yeah. That's amazing. Also, Nick was like very proud of this realization because the first time I went over to his house to film content,

he was like, it's a pretty great neighborhood. I think Brian Austin Green's parents live across my street. It's really great. In the name of the neighborhood. Yeah, so that's the house that I grew up in.

They're still in the same house. They've been married for 50 years, I think. That's great. They celebrated their 50th anniversary. That's amazing. Yeah, because I'll be 49. Good. I really wanted you on just to confirm that you're parents.

Perfect. Okay, so I can go now. I'm just waiting in the car. Baby, I'll just be outside. That's great. I was always wondering. Next time you visit mom and dad. I'm over there

all the time, so I'll literally come over and say hey. Well, you guys should come over for dinner or something. Once the baby. Give me a little sec. He can stay over at my parents' house while we come over. Were your parents pissed when they remodeled the house?

Because some of the neighbors on the street, I actually have an old photograph of what the house used to look like. Because someone, I don't even know, someone when I moved in, dropped it off on my door in an envelope saying, this used to be your old house. And then I've heard from some of the neighbors that they were kind of pissed because like it definitely... It doesn't fit in. It doesn't look like any of the rest of the houses. It doesn't. It really sticks out.

Yeah, it really is like you drive on the street and you're like, what is that? In the neighborhood, that's happening more and more, which I kind of like about the neighborhood because it's a very old school neighborhood. And there's not this... You know how these suburbs in America have all these rules where they all look the same?

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20% off an at-home lab test at everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's basically free. That's everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 20% off your next at-home lab test. everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L. I saw I was, you you know preparing for this interview and then i saw that you had to address some sort of breakup rumors it was on page six sharna do you know knock down insane breakup rumors it was not even a conversation enough about your love no first of all there's always someone that's like i haven't seen any of them for a week they must be broken up you're

like this is ludicrous. But it was. She shot a video in front of a tree that didn't look like it was in the house. Yeah. She's not in Malibu. Where is she? It's so funny. The detectives that are, you know, that just want to know all of your business.

But no, I was talking about buying a house because I'm looking to buy. I just recently sold mine, looking to buy again. And I didn't state that it was specifically for my mom because I'm moving my mom over. She's going to be a grandma. Yeah. She actually arrives tonight, which is amazing. But as I was talking about this, I had so many people DM me, not understanding why I didn't live with Brian and why I was buying another house.

So I had one story of one line where I was like, I just, I don't understand why buying a house means that I'm not another house. So I had one story of one line where I was like, I just, I don't understand why buying a house means that I'm not with Brian. I'm, you know, a investment B, whatever. It doesn't mean we've broken up.

I'm thriving. I'm thriving, honey. And then it went everywhere. It's like first breakup rumors, addressing, addressing rumors. We don't live together and putting people,

putting the record straight. I was like, I literally said one thing for 5.7 seconds. When the news came out that you had sold the house too, all of a sudden it was a big story that we moved in together. And it was like, she's lived with the house for a year. Yeah, I'm sorry. We didn't make a big announcement.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't throw a party. It didn't happen because it wasn't on the gram. So you guys are thriving. We're thriving. Yeah. So you were on Dancing with the Stars, and that't throw a party. It didn't happen because it wasn't on the gram. So you guys are thriving. We're thriving. So you were on Dancing with the Stars, and that's how you met. No. That's not how you met.

How did you meet? So we have a mutual friend and business manager. And going back, this is like 2019 or 20? 2020. Almost two years ago. I think it was 2020. 2020. So she called me one day, and she was like listen and this is

very out of the blue for her this is not she's not cupid you know she's business manager she's awesome but this was very like odd an odd request from her so she calls me she's like listen there's this client that i really want you to meet i get this same vibe when i'm around him i kind of think of you when i'm around you i think of him i just feel like you guys should meet he's doing this new dance show you can call it a meeting if you want keep it really casual because he was doing mass dancer at the time talk about dance talk about dance it doesn't have to be a date but i just think you guys should meet and i was like it was like if you if you don't vibe you can just call it a meeting. Yeah. And then have an exit. Right. And I was like, okay, such a weird request. So I'm intrigued.

Like, yeah, cool. Who is it? She goes, it's Brian Austin Green. I was like, cool. Who's that? You didn't know. I didn't. I knew who he was, but not by name like that.

And so she was like, listen, he's, he's, you know, he's ready to meet people, I think. So just see how it goes. And again, if it's a work thing, you write it off and it doesn't matter. You go separate ways. So we ended up having coffee. We met at Peddler's Fork and both of us had these things that we needed to do, like an exit. We had an out.

And we sat down for breakfast. I did not have an out. You didn't? No, I did not. You had your Zoom meeting with me. I had an actual Zoom meeting. It wasn't an out. It was a for real meeting.

And I had a for real COVID test for dancing, but I was just going to say that it was earlier. You had a potential out. Brian was just like, I was just in. I thought that far ahead. So we sat down, but then all of a sudden nearly five hours goes by and we've just shut down breakfast. We're into lunch and both of us look at the time we're

like oh my god I need to go he was late for his zoom meeting I almost didn't make it back to Hollywood for my COVID test time just passed so quickly it was so easy and natural to spend time with him and it wasn't one of those like oh my god I know I know this is the one but it was I walked away and got in my car and I was like, that, that felt different. There was something about that that was really intriguing. And he messaged me not long after we had left each other and was like, Hey, let's do this again really soon. And we did the same thing for like five dates. We did, we just sat and had coffee and breakfast and talked. We didn't kiss. We didn't try and rush it. We didn't anything. We

just took our time. Uh, and then, you know, I think the fifth. We didn't kiss. We didn't try and rush it. We didn't anything. We just took our time. And then, you know, I think the fifth date was our first kiss. Yeah. Five dates to kiss. Yeah. I like that you said real soon, though. Because we have people always calling in, just like, does he like me? Does he not?

And it's just like the vagueness. It's like, oh, we should do this sometime. And usually it's just like, well. It's a little vague. Like, when is sometime? When is sometime? It's like, no, one day we should do this. And Brian's just like well it's a little vague like when is sometime sometime it's like no one day we should do this and brian's just like real soon i don't i have kids you know i had just gotten out of my marriage i was like i'm just not in a place of bullshitting with

anybody you know to me it's like let's if we're gonna do it like let's hang out again are you up for it cool let's let's hang out again tomorrow like there's no i'm not i don't play the games of like you know four days to call or three days or what i don't i'm not in we we both seemed to be in a place where neither of us were trying to impress the other person it wasn't about showing up and oh god i hope he likes me i hope she likes me it was let me just see who this person is let me see if i vibe with them let's see if there is something here and it seemed to be a really um natural way for us to get to know each other without it putting up any of those things that you put on dates you know what i mean in the past when you go out on dates you put on your best behavior or you put on your best whatever and it's not really you i think on our third date we talked about our worst traits

like our worst qualities like tell me what the worst thing about you is who asked that question i think it was me i feel like it um i feel like he would ask me questions he's like tell me the worst thing about you but i i think it was me it might have been you yeah and for me it was my like i can be hypersensitive um and that's something that i've had to do a lot of work on and for me it was my like i can be hypersensitive um and that's something that i've had to do a lot of work on and for you five minutes late to everything yeah but i've not worked on that no but that was another one that you would but you just you're just up front yeah i'm like don't expect me to be on time for anything i will be five minutes late to everything i could be ready 15 minutes early that's this guy yeah i She was a day early for that hate.

That's true. So it was supposed to be on a Friday morning at 11, and she showed up Thursday at 11 and texted me and was like, hey, I'm sitting in the corner. I've got the pink hair. You can't miss me. And then like 10 minutes later, you know, hey, so what time are you? Just kidding.

You thought you got flaked? No, I knew that. I mean, I didn't what time are you? Yeah. And then all of a sudden she was like, you thought you got flaked on. No, I knew that. I mean, I didn't think that I got flaked. I sat down and you know, when you have this feeling that something's not quite right, but you haven't really clocked into it yet.

I turned up a whole day early to this date. I sat down, drove all the way to Calabasas from like, from Hollywood, which is a drive when you're not used to it. So obviously you had to admit that you showed up early. Yeah, no,

I was texting him. I was at, I was at work and I was, I had looked at my phone. I was like, what is she talking? I'm looking at my watch. I was like,

why is she texting me? What is she doing at Peddler's Fork right now? Like for coffee. And then I was like, just kidding. And then we had this really, just kidding. I'm actually,

but then we had something the next day for me to just kidding. And then we had this really. Just kidding. Just kidding. It was a really fun joke. But then we had something the next day for me. Great to talk about. And this dick texts me in the morning. He's like, hey, just confirming coffee today. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, got it. Just making sure that we're still up for today. That's great.

What were your traits that you owned on the third date of things that you thought you needed to work on? Everything. It wasn't i remember what you said i don't it was um patience and temper which i have never come across with you but they were two qualities that he said he'd done a lot of work on both in you know within himself and going to therapy we all do that or we all should do that but one of two of the things he worked on was um having patience and short-tempered which i've never known you to be less reactive less yeah react i think that was even your word reactive might have been but um yeah i've never

experienced after my marriage it was like i could either sit and point fingers and play it that way and not accomplish anything or i can step back and go okay what about me can i better for the next relationship so i don't go through this again yeah so five dates for a kiss yeah how uh what was it just because the conversations were so rich and anticipatory or like what it just wasn't it wasn't about that it was i mean we were meeting for breakfast and for lunch and we would end up getting into these four five hour conversations about stuff how who made the first move on the kiss i did you did yeah and then how long before like where did you guys define the like the relationship to like what point because like it's it's different than as we get older i think too and we've had relationships Like, did you guys define the relationship? No.

Because, like, it's different than as we get older, I think, too. We've had relationships. It's you're, like, less, do you want to be my girlfriend? It's more of a, right? How did you guys kind of feel out each other's mutual interest? That's a really great question because for us it was more about not labeling. For me, we came from two very different places into this relationship I had been ready and looking for this for for a long time waiting for that that right moment and person um and feeling to come along whereas Bri was just getting out of something that was very big and very long term and there's a lot of healing to

go through with that so we connected and and there's definitely something special there, but I knew I couldn't rush him into it. And who would want to be rushed into labeling anything after a 15-year relationship and marriage? You'd have a lot of questions and hesitations. So I never tried to pressure him on what are we, but I definitely had to talk myself through that. Allow him to show you who he is, show him who you are and read the signs as opposed to asking for words. Actions speak louder than words.

And one of the things that really helped me understand was, it might sound silly but it's the love languages, right? I know by watching and observing him and getting to know him deeply, he's an acts of service person. He was showing me he loved me or that he was with me every day. So for me to ask him to confirm it in words would have just been too much on top of what he was already doing and giving. And so I had to, I had to really make myself understand that acts of service he's showing me by coming in and fixing things in my home and changing light bulbs or, you know,

doing things for me. Who knew DIY could mean so much, you know? And knowing that we have different love languages, talking about them, communicating with them, but not demanding that he label things. And it's something that you even appreciated about me that you would say thank you for not trying to, I guess, label it. I don't know. Never feeling pressure from the situation at all. Like we just we hung out and spent time together because we wanted to, not because we felt like we were supposed to or that's, you know. I love that you said that too. It's something as I've gotten older and just like love languages when you're, you know, 20, 15 years ago, A, we didn't talk about love languages as much.

And if you were a guy that was not like, well, what love languages would fuck with that? But I think a lot of men, like, access service is something they lean to. I'm a big access service guy myself, too. Like, you know, I just like doing, I like showing my love through, like, just going out of my way. I also think it's something that, you know, within a lot of relationships,

it's people, it's easy to take access services services for granted too for sure and so when you it's nice to know like it's something i think guys can work on when it comes to like the other ones like words of affirmation how their partners like to receive love but it's nice to just hear that your partner sees that you do care about them right and yeah you might want to work on the other stuff because they want to receive it differently. But like sometimes in relationships when I was younger, you know, I thought I was showing love and sometimes I would get complaints about not showing love.

Right. Yeah. I've been like, what do you mean? I've been showing you love. Yeah. You know, and so I just built you a new shed. I don't understand. It's not because i'm like

i love doing it i love you to death have you seen the door on this thing i don't feel this ikea bullshit for nothing yeah um no but i love that you said that what's something for you sharna because you mentioned obviously starting to date brian shortly after you got out of a relationship and that can be sometimes intimidating for people um regardless if it was a marriage or not but how were you able to just focus on the relationship because i think a lot of people if they're dating someone fresh out of a previous relationship it's easy to compare yeah you with your partner or you know they if they bring in baggage because everyone brings in stuff they have to deal with how did you how were you able to isolate uh things that brian was going through from his past relationship without making it about you and and what you know what i'm saying

because i think a lot of people can do that it's just like if your partner's going through something it's easy to like in a new relationship feel you know know, you don't have that foundation yet. And you start worrying about, well, is this something I'm doing or versus just being there and listening and helping them through that? How are you able to do that? And what advice would you give people listening who might be going through the same thing? That's such an amazing question. And I hope I answer it well, but, um, you know, you can't walk into a new situation with someone and expect them to leave behind completely everything that they're experiencing or have been through. You know, Bri had a whole life with another person and babies. And I can't expect that to just be like, well, now I'm number one priority and what I need is the thing.

I wanted to know him, to support him, to love him. These people will be a part of his life forever. So I can't expect to not take them into consideration too. But there is no comparison. And why would you compare? Because that obviously didn't work for a reason. So for me to compare myself to that or to bring that into this relationship doesn't make sense I can only focus on what I can control and what I and who I am and show that to him and be that for him and if that does work out at the end of the day if we do have a good match then that's amazing he was always really good about making me feel um loved seen and heard, I think, in our relationship. And I never felt like he put his past on me in that sense. But we always had very open communication about things.

We've always been very honest with each other. So in that sense, there were no secrets. There was nothing where I was wondering what was happening, I guess. We were always very transparent with each other, which is I think what helped so much. You have all the information in front of you and I get to decide what to do with it. But the idea of comparing yourself to anyone sets you up for failure, right?

To compare you to anyone's past or history also sets you up for failure. You can only focus on who you are how you love how you can be for that person or how they can be for you and focus on the future ahead while knowing that you have to make space for all these things because they've had a life before you yeah does that make sense totally yeah i hope i answered that well because it's a beautiful question because i think a lot of people go through that. Brian, for you, you know, we get a lot of questions with people who go through divorces, co-parenting and things like that. What were some things early on that, you know, as the relationship, your past relationship ended, you guys, your co-parenting, that can be confusing. It can be there's a lot of emotions.

confusing it can be there's a lot of emotions how were you able to try and maybe you weren't right away able to separate the frustration and pain from the relationship ending versus you know obviously you have kids you guys are both public figures how were you able to set boundaries around you know communication versus things that were like between the two of you like that must have been just a very challenging thing how were how did you go about doing that? Honestly, it's a day to day thing. There, there are certain days where you feel like I'm good. Like this is, I'm not affected by any of this. And then you wake up on some days and you're like, just, it's killing you. You know, I think the big thing for me again was, uh was i was in therapy i was really trying to instead of looking at what went wrong in that relationship figuring out what things about me

i didn't really like and wanted to uh better before my next relationship. And I really chose to not look at that situation as any sort of failing at all. Because it's a 15-year relationship. We have three beautiful kids. So it was really amazing at the end of the day. I didn't really take it as it fell apart or something went wrong. I think sometimes that's just the natural progression of relationships with people. Like you have them in your life for the time you do and you're on the same path with somebody. And so it clicks and it works easily. And then all of a sudden you grow apart and you have different things that you want to do and accomplish. And, um, and I think people struggle so hard sometimes to be on somebody else's path or bring that other person to their

path. And I don't know if that's really possible. I don't feel like it's really possible. And I feel like you're doing yourself and that other person a huge disservice by trying to do that in the first place instead of just surrounding yourself with people that are on the same path with you yeah you have to choose to want to be in the path together and if if yeah if you two don't then it's hard to maintain i've always heard talk of the road less traveled and i never fully understood that until i started really getting into uh life out of my marriage and then being single and being a parent and all of that and realizing like oh it's it's the road less traveled because it's really hard but the payoff

is amazing like for me to go in and choose not to talk poorly about the relationship that I was in before or, or get really emotionally affected by things and just sort of keep my head down and continue doing what I was doing was, it was definitely much harder than just sitting back. You know, the easiest part of therapy is to sit back and point your finger and go, Oh, this person did me wrong. And my mom and dad did this when I was a kid. But you know, but at some point that's got to end and then you've got to sit and go, okay, now what do I do that has hurt other people that are around me? And that's when the work, that's when the real work comes in.

And so I made a choice early on of like, I'm going to start doing that work now. I'm not, I'm not going to go in and point fingers at all because I don't gain anything from it. It didn't in and point fingers at all because I don't gain anything from it. It didn't help me with healing at all. Yeah, it kind of holds you back. Yeah, I'm an analytical person. So I want to cut right through the fat of something and get down to what can I try?

What can I do differently? And the therapist that I had was amazing. She gave me really helpful tips and things to try, little tricks, and just communicating because my communication skills were kind of all over the place with people. Are you able to share any of those for our audience, some of the tricks that you learned? Yeah. I'd worked on it before because I had this, I had like a four and a half year period of going through neurological stuff where I couldn't really speak very well. And I had to go through speech therapy and physical therapy and all of this stuff. So it forced me to sit and listen for a long time to people and not be able to really interject and do what I do.

But I really, in therapy, that was a big thing was it was all in the approach with people that I was speaking to. And I would tell my therapist a conversation that I had and she and she would say to me very bluntly, she would go, okay, next time, try and say it like this, or try and, you know, listen more this way or ask this kind of question. And I would thinking, well, it seems kind of counterintuitive. Like, why would, you know, why would I, why would I speak that way? But then it worked. It was, it's all about bringing somebody's guard down and bringing them down to your level. Co-parenting is, I think, is something a lot of people who listen to this show can struggle with. What's something that you, through, you know, your divorce, you learned this was something that worked from a co-parenting standpoint or maybe something you got wrong that it's just like, yeah, we had to do this. We had to have these conversations because it can be a challenge. Do you have any things that you guys do and prioritize? So Megan and I, just with what it is that we do professionally, we don't have set schedules the same way a lot of other people do. So a normal like two to five or, you know,

those, those week on week off or whatever the parenting schedules don't necessarily work and apply with us the same way. If she has to travel for work and she's gone for a week and a half, it's then very important for me that the kids get to see their mom when she's back in town. And so we try really hard to, instead of judging work or traveling or the situation being harder that way and not being, being so set in stone, we really try and communicate and share dates of what we know and what might work. And, um, just to be flexible. Yeah. Just be as flexible as possible.

Yeah. It almost even sounds like you guys haven't prioritized trying to win in the break. I think because people want to do that. Honestly is for the kids. Like when the kids win that, one of the big things for me when we separated was I think people go into separation with the wrong idea. They think,

well, I don't want this to affect my kids. And I don't think that's possible. I don't think it's possible to not affect your kids. The, the, the part that you play in it and the choice that it's possible to not affect your kids. The part that you play in it and the choice that you have is how it affects your kids. It's either a horribly negative

situation and you guys bicker and fight all the time, or you make it as loving and kind and flexible as possible. And you make sure that they are truly taken care of. And at the point when they are, then it's amazing how much smoother everything else is around it. Representation matters. You know, like I was a kid from a broken family. My mom and dad, you know, separated, got back together, separated, got back together. I wish they divorced early on and built a friendship and a working co-parenting relationship like what Megan and Brian have,

because it's so much healthier to see that as a kid on how people can have mutual respect and love and understanding and communication with each other than bickering and fighting. We also have friends that are going through divorce and the battle that the kids are in the middle of is just heartbreaking. So what, something I respect so much about brian and megan is the way these kids are number one at all times their communication they're making priority and time for them making sure they are loved and they have as much consistency as they can keeps them so balanced and these kids have handled the last few years so amazingly because of that that's awesome you know i wasn't that put together at their age because of experience with mom and dad.

And so it's really, really beautiful to see. And it's a huge credit to them. I grew up with the singer Robin Thicke. Yeah. Like we were best friends when we were younger and his dad, Alan, and his mom, Gloria, were separated. I, hanging out with Robin all the time, there was never any sort of contentious feeling going from his mom's house to his dad's house or vice versa.

It was like, oh, you know, going to my mom's house for the week, so pack up stuff and go over there. And it was like, hey, welcome home and, you know, just be around. There was never any sort of negative talk about the other parent. That wasn't ever a part of the world. And as I got older, like that became a model for me. That's really interesting. If parents separate, that's an amazing way of doing it, of it really being a loving situation.

Yeah. Well, and I think the not talking poorly about each other is important too because I heard heard someone say like the second that you are talking badly about, you know, your former partner or your ex, that's when the kids lose and they hear everything and they pick up on everything. So just like maintaining that like positive neutral. And they're never not listening, by the way. They're behind the door listening. You kind of steal that from your kids. Like as a kid, you want to believe that your

parents are superhuman and they're your role models and as soon as you start doing that you almost steal that from the kids their ability to like admire and look up to their parents because it's it's a challenge totally with you two getting pregnant was that how did you communicate that to megan was that weird how did you communicate that to Megan? Was that weird? How did you guys do that? I think the kids told Megan before we got a chance to. Yeah, they were super excited. And she, of course, reached out and congratulated us.

That's awesome. The kids were so excited when we told them. We've been really lucky with the kids, with the whole relationship from the very start. They've been very loving and open with Sharna and there hasn't really been any friction at all or anything that you could assume might go wrong, didn't go wrong. And that was across the board. I mean, the kids were great, but just people in general, friends, family, public that have watched our careers that could have been so judgmental and said, just didn't. And everybody was very welcoming and very loving of the pairing of the two of us together. It's been a really great situation that way. That's great. Was it a challenge for you or, or even

Megan too, when you guys start dating other people and then they're hanging out with your kids, I can imagine there's like, you know, this person, my part, my ex is dating. Is that something you had to get comfortable with or like, you know, with a machine gun Kelly and, or things like that, or, or Megan with Sharna? Like, how do you, is that just like trusting your ex to know that they're going to be with that person and you just like, how is that? Because it can be a very-

Honestly, there's not much that you can do about it. Okay. The person that Megan chooses to be with and the life that she chooses to lead and wherever, you know, she chooses to go, there aren't many things that i really have control over nor do i want to have control over i want i want my kids to have their life with their mom and i want their mom to be happy and they're not in any sort of

danger at this point so it's what am i possibly going to step in and try and interrupt some, you know, thing that's happening. Yeah. Because my idea may not necessarily be any better than hers. Yeah. My approach may not be, I don't try and pretend like I've got some better concept of parenting than she does. I mean, we're equal parents. than she does. I mean, we're, we're equal parents. So, um, me when, after we'd been dating for about, was it five months, four or five months when I asked, I was like, can I get Megan's number?

I'd love to text. Oh yeah. And I, we had this, this passing moment. We were both at the same restaurant and we oddly made eye contact for a brief moment. And I was like, this is not the place for us to meet for the first time and after that I was like right I bumped into Megan I definitely made eye contact whether she recognized me or not I don't know but I would love to reach out with her to her and say hey I'm around your kids all the time if you ever want to know anything about me or if you ever want to get coffee let me know uh they're amazing kids I love them and if there's any way I can support in, you know, being a part of this situation, let me know. And I think she really appreciated that. She said thank you.

And she's thanked me for being great with her kids too because they're beautiful kids. Sharna reached out and then Megan reached right back and we've all gone to the movies together and done stuff like that where, like, Megan's really tried to be around and, you know, get to know Sharna. Yeah.

It's important for the kids. There was a kid I went to high school with. It was, you know, you have senior quotes. Yeah. And I wasn't friends with them in high school, but his senior quote was, you hate the people you don't know. You don't know them because you hate them. And that stuck with me my whole life. It's one of my favorite quotes of some guy named Jack in high school.

Well done, Jack. When it comes to exes, it's just common to feel this animosity and there must be a sense of relief when you did that and you reach out because while you might not really be in each other's lives, just to have that

familiarity, it'd be like, oh, well, there's a world where maybe we could have been friends we're not going to be like you're friendly but like it's just it must be such a reassuring feeling once that olive branch is extended and you just have some familiarity with one another yeah and everyone's just happier to know that there is an open line of communication you know and that it's friendly and it's warm and anything you need, let me know. And also that the kids know that the kids know that we have a good relationship and a mutual respect for each other. So there's no, they don't have to worry about that dynamic. They just feel

good with it. Because Sharn is in their life for everything. I mean, bedtime and in the morning, getting them ready for school. And she's an active part of all of that when the kids are at, uh, at our house. And so the, the fact that they know that she can openly talk to their mom also about things is, it's invaluable. It really is. With this, you being a first time mother, is this, has it been kind of a fun, like almost warm up? Like warm up. It's like I stepped into an instant family.

But in the best way, like talk about manifesting or some of the things that I wanted, not some of many of them are a part of this relationship in my life. And one of those was I always wanted a big family, but then I got to 36 and I was like, okay, I can't really pop out five kids, you know what I mean? But I am, I maybe I'll have one or two and we'll see. And I met the love of my life and met these beautiful kids that I get to be a step-parent to and watch them grow. And I love them so much. And it was, I don't think I've only had one day where it was an afternoon where you were sick recently this year and it was like, and I'm pregnant. I was like, this is so much I can't

hear. Like there was, they were just in one of those days where the kids wanted to go all different directions at all different times. And I, I couldn't wrangle it together. That's the only overwhelming day I've had that I think being a part of their family, again, they're amazing kids. So they haven't made my job difficult. But has shown me that I do have a natural nurturing instinct with kids that I love. I love kids. I love being a part of watching them grow and helping them shape themselves. And that I love being a mom and so

it's made me really excited for for this one to come along that's awesome yeah what are what's the thing you guys enjoy doing the most together like what's your kind of uh go-to to spend like that quality time so some of my favorite things still with bry are our mornings you know waking up making coffee for each other feeding the dogs going yeah we have a ton of animals and stuff so honestly being for me being around the house and like doing stuff out you know building stuff outside and i look over and sharna's in it and, you know, doing stuff also and having a great time. It's, it's, it's amazing to share, uh, time with somebody that is, that really just enjoys life the way you do, whether our, our, the things we enjoy are identical or not.

We still enjoy doing other things, things outside of, but I've, I've realized as I've gotten older, because I used to be, you know, I think when you're younger, you like to think that love conquers all. And like, as long as we love each other really hard, we'll get through it. Even though you're just like, fuck, I just have to do this shit again.

And I've realized that like having common interest and like loving to do things together is a really great thing to have in a relationship that like I have now that I haven't always had. And it's just nice because like. It's easy. It's easy. Like, yeah. And like, yeah, relationships take work. You're going to have to get through shit.

Every relationship does. But when the day to day is this like when you just like doing things together, whether it's chores, whether it's activities, because generally it's such a nice thing. I remember when she when when Sharna was first spending the night at the house and I would wake up in the morning and she would make coffee for both of us or feed the dogs or like do these little mundane things. But I was used to always doing them all myself. And then all of a sudden waking up and they were done, I was like, wait, the dishes are all clean. Like what, you know, did you do the dishes? Like, did you feed the dogs? Thank you for this coffee that it was, it was amazing to have those little things to share with somebody. I think for us too, it's, and this was something I had to learn. I used to be a very like

codependent person in relationships. We have all those things we love to share with each other and things we love to do, but we are totally okay doing our own things as well. He can, we can be at the house the whole day, but I might not see him. He'll be building something or working on music. And I don't feel the need to go find him and be like, spend time with me. I think it's really healthy to be able to go, okay, let's go do our own things for a little while. Or I'm going to go do, have lunch with the girls or I'm going to go have dinner or do something else.

So you can also have your own space. You need that balance of enjoying life and things with each other, but also enjoying life and things on your own too. You have to stay your own person. The concept of quality time is really true. Like if you, if you really take the time to learn the love language of the person that you're with, um, then when you guys spend the time together that you do, it's, it's enough for the whole day. It gives you time then to go and do your own stuff. And you don't have that feeling of like, you know, well, I don't, I, I don't feel loved today or I don't feel like that. You know,

I felt like something was wrong this morning or you don't have any of those things. And sometimes it only takes a half an hour, you know, an hour of time, like just, just to have breakfast and catch up and do the things that the other person really enjoys. And then. We did also make a promise to each other that we would have adventure. We're both naturally homebodies. We love just being home and in our space and getting comfortable. So one of the things was like, let's make sure we make space for adventure with each other. So we've been shark diving already. We've got a whole bucket list of things that we want to do with each other when we can have the space and time. i think that's also about it too having having experiencing life with each other something new and exciting every now and then was there a question for both you a moment where you thought i really feel loved by this person that first moment where i think every relationship has where you feel like I I this person really

loves me and I feel that love from them okay so I think for me uh honestly like looking back at all of it since we've been together I've kind of felt like Sharna has shown me love from the very beginning just because she is a loving, kind person. I've never felt like – Physical person. Yeah. Yeah. Her thing is physical touch.

Obviously. We've seen it. Yeah. Obviously. Constant massage or something. Yeah, that's me. The muscles in this leg feel amazing right now. Yeah, that's me.

The muscles in this leg feel amazing right now. One of the things that I have in common with most people that I speak to when we're talking about Sharna is that she's just a really kind, loving, generous person. And I felt that from day one with her. I've never felt like, you know, wondering what it was she was thinking or feel like she's, she just wears her heart on her sleeve. So I never, I don't think I ever had like a real moment where I felt it shift. I mean, I think, I think the biggest shift was when we kissed for the first time and realized like, oh, we have a great physical connection aside from just this, you know, mental, emotional connection. Can you imagine after five dates,

the buildup, you're just like, Right, yeah, then you kiss and you go. You're like, well, we'll be friends. Which is, yeah, yeah. It happens. It absolutely happens, yeah. Physical connection is a big part of a relationship. If you don't feel physically attracted to somebody,

that's a hard one to not. But you couldn't, like, I'm sure we've experienced it, everyone, but you can be physically attracted to someone and then you kiss them and you're like, oh. Yeah. There's a chemistry or a chemical thing. There's a chemistry, the pheromones. That was just all wrong.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, so, yeah, fist bump. That was weird. Am I going to do 23andMe and realize you're my cousin? yeah that was weird am i gonna do 23 and me and realizing my cousin right we're totally related i'm just i can feel it yeah i think you're my brother no we didn't we didn't have that we definitely had an amazing physical connection the when i felt loved by i mean probably for me it was not one specific moment, but going back to that love languages thing of truly not trying to project, not trying to see what I wanted to see, but truly

seeing him and all the things he was doing and all the ways he was showing me. It was like he was maybe consciously, subconsciously working so hard to show me how he felt because he wasn't ready to say it that I would notice all these things he was doing for me throughout the day whether it was tidying up cords that are in that apply like charger cords or fixing things or service man you know it all of them they were constant and they were beautiful and I was like wow really, he is doing everything to show me that he loves me while managing his own journey and process and stepping into a new relationship and balancing everything that he's going through.

That's huge for a human being to deal with, you know? And I think I felt really loved at that point. It doesn't mean, I think we had two moments where I was, we would have conversations about knowing that where I was at we would have conversations about knowing that where I was at this, you know, waiting for him to be able to come to the table and saying, I love you. I think alcohol was involved, but you know, liquid courage. You're like, does he love me?

Sometimes you just have to get it out. The first time I said, I love you, she made me say it again. She was like, say it again. Say it again. I was like, oh, then all of a sudden I felt like the Fonz. Like I couldn't. He did. He said it to me.

We were laying in bed and he said, I love you. And I looked up at him. I was like, say it again. And then he said it again. But I do love the, going back to the acts of service. I just, I think sometimes thing, people in relationships, we, it can, you,

we can often not let the other person know that we appreciate how they make us feel. You know, we're, I think we're often quick, you know, it's easy to get caught up in our lives and our, and our worries and our insecurities. And, and it's easy to let the other,

your partners know, like, hey, you can do this or you could do that to make me feel better. But it is nice to know when our partners do get it right to let them know that they're getting it right. Because I do, especially men, I think we can struggle with it too, where we are definitely imperfect.

And I think when it comes to opening up and connecting with our partners there's always room for growth therapy i think for men it goes a long way uh darlene for me you know um but when we do get it right it's nice to hear it from our partners because i think it can go a long way to like everyone looks like yeah i'm doing it well i'm doing it good great i'll keep yeah i'll keep going. Yeah. It's motivation to keep building. Like that's, that's what I found when I was going to therapy and these little, uh, communication tricks and things were working. I was like, as soon as you realize that they're working, you want to keep doing it because

it's like, oh, this is so much easier to speak this way and communicate this way than to like butt heads and not completely get what it is we're trying to say to each other a couple rapid fire questions for you guys oh boy right before we do our terrible rapid fire you've already established over this past five hours we love the long-winded answers on the podcast yeah the worst is when you ask a question it's like yeah yes that's not us we'll give you a question and it's like, yes. That's not us. We'll give you a 10-minute answer for every question.

I already know the answer to this first one. I'd be surprised. Maybe not. I don't know. But who's more competitive? Probably Sharna. It would be me. Hands down, it's me.

I'm not really competitive in life like I am for work. She's an athlete, though. Like, I'm dancing with the stars. She's made a career out of competition. Yeah, she comes from the world of, like, gotta win, gotta win this thing. And I, to me, it's like, I don't,

what does win mean? What am I winning? Brian comes downstairs. She has, like, an Abby Lee Miller pyramid. She's like, this week. On the bottom. This is one of my favorite questions to ask couples. Who's more of the drama queen?

Oh, no, it's me for sure. My sensitivity can make me very pregnancy my goodness i've had it's not been it's not being constant but i've definitely had moments what's great about sharna though is that she will if you speak if i speak to her for a minute then she will absolutely step outside of the situation and go oh i'm being really dramatic right now give me a second i i just saw myself such a rough day like she you know she'll actually notice it and and and who uh who likes to cook different things it's a toss-up we both do we both love to cook he's um amazing on the grill and he does that quite often throughout the week um but yeah both of us i would say equal uh who's uh usually first to apologize i think no i am only because i mess up the most it's not true it kind of is

there are times where sean i'll come to me and be like you really hurt my feelings doing this and i'll go i'm sorry like that's and that's big's big though. That's majority of the time. Because a lot of times, when someone says you hurt my feelings, I think we've all been there, especially early in relationships. Your common reaction is to get defensive and go, what do you mean?

Why? Because you feel guilty about it. It takes a lot to just just to say i'm sorry not to mess up your lightning round at all but yeah i think you're doing really good you've gone through two questions so far and now i'm gonna go on off on a rant um we made it to see so i think i think sometimes people take somebody's feelings being hurt and getting they get defensive because they take it personally instead of realizing like feelings are just feelings it doesn't it doesn't mean that you necessarily meant to hurt somebody's

feelings but something you did did hurt feelings. So it's so much easier to just listen to those feelings and go, man, I like, I'm so sorry that you for a second felt that way because that was not my intention at all. Right. But people feel like, oh, well, if you say that, you know, if somebody says that you hurt their feelings, that you maliciously tried to do something. And so they get defensive of like, I would never, feelings that you maliciously tried to do something and so they get defensive of like i would never you know maliciously do anything it's like the person's not saying that they're just saying that you're feeling because like i would never hurt your feelings like well weirdly right yeah i'm just telling you how you did just now five minutes ago

so i think it's about language that you use sometimes, you know, and that's also when, when you're with someone noticing how they react to language, right? With, with Bri, I would never come to him and be like, you hurt my feelings, even though he'd, we'd still have that same conversation. He'd hear me, but it's more about, this is how I received what you said. This is the way it's made me feel because then it's less of you did this to me and more of this is the way I'm feeling about what because then it's less of you did this to me and more of this is the way i'm feeling about what was said so can we you know have a conversation about you where you were coming from and where i'm coming from and then you can find that middle ground

um but yeah it's all about sorry about that who's uh who's funnier edit edit oh i just grabbed his crutch accidentally oh we're gonna zoom in who is funnier it's a funny question he's definitely funny he's definitely way funnier than me i'm accidentally funny if i try and be funny it's very uncomfortable but i can be accidentally funny so we're both pretty self-deprecating i was gonna say who's more self-aware but i feel like you both are pretty good yeah i have i have no problem at this point in my life like is that a talking about what i'm good at and what i'm not good at is that has that been a shift for you it's absolutely a shift yeah it comes with it comes

with age i'm also at a point now where if i was talking to somebody about this before because they were in a new relationship and people make the mistake i think when they're in something new of carrying all of the red flags and the things that you've learned from your previous relationships into your new ones. So it's like, you know what to look out for just in case something is going south and you can save your feelings. But then when you ask people what relationship was best, most people will respond, my first relationship was the love of my life. And it's because you went into that with no red flags.

You had no, you weren't holding anything against the person that you were with. You just loved them unconditionally. Well, my first relationship was definitely not that. But mine was a really good relationship because I just, I went in, I had never been in a relationship before so i just loved her unconditionally i was like oh yeah let's just do this no but i love it you said that i think there's something to take away from that in terms of we we to give our new partners the benefit like they're not yeah i'm not gonna hold against you you can learn from your past person before me

yeah you can learn little things. And there's a difference between learning and then asking questions without making your partner feel like they are paying for the mistakes your last partner made all the time. Where it's like, fuck, man. I'm sorry they did this to you. I'm really sorry. Yeah, that's not me. Should we do our texting office hours? Why don't you finish up your rapid fire first? That really sorry. Yeah. Right. That's not me. Um, should we do our texting office hours?

Why don't you finish up your rapid fire? We got it. We got it. We got it. We can go on. Those three questions went real quick. Right. Yeah.

All right. Let's, uh, let's save someone's life. All right. Oh, okay. All right. How's it going? Hi. Hi.

My name's Jenna. I'm 23. Hi, Jenna. How can we help i need help responding to my ex-boyfriend about co-parenting our dog so are you guys are you guys sharing custody of the dog now at this point well so i know it sounds ridiculous i hear it it doesn't sound ridiculous. It doesn't at all. Your dog is your kid. I'm assuming right now. So I got, Natalie and I got a dog. Like I got, you know, I purchased Jeff,

but like, yeah, no, I, it's sensitive. It's touchy. Yeah, it's a pretty common thing. So don't feel like it's ridiculous at all because it's a very common thing. Total empathy in this room for the situation. We wanted to get a dog together. It was COVID and I worked for a dog rescue. And so I brought this dog home from transport one day.

He didn't have a foster and we foster failed. We kept him. So yeah, no one paid. I mean, technically I paid with my work. The adoption fee was waived because I work for them. I volunteer for them. So yeah, that's kind of how that happened, which is also kind of a weird part of the story. But basically we broke up about three weeks ago and we were together for two and a half years. We lived together. We had a dog together.

We can call him John, my boyfriend, ex-boyfriend. We can call the dog Max. We can call him John, my boyfriend, ex-boyfriend. We can call the dog Max. So I moved back in with my parents about 45 minutes to an hour away. So during the relationship, he would often like joke about how if we ever broke up, he would take the dog from me. And that always like freaked me out, obviously, because I don't know. I don't think that's something to joke about. And I don't know what upset me.

So in the beginning, like right when we first broke up, I felt like I had to be like overly amenable in terms of co-parenting. And I found out pretty quickly that like I needed to set up some boundaries or else I was going to get taken advantage of. So the first conversation that we had in terms of co-parenting, I was like, I can bring him to work. And if you pick him up, like right when I get to work, that's fine. And he couldn't make it work. So whatever. So then the next weekend I was moving out of the apartment and he was gone for Memorial Day weekend, like on vacation. And the day that the movers were there, he wanted me to bring Max and like leave him there. And I was like, I mean, I didn't say this, but like,

we can't have a dog like barking his head off, like stuck in his crate for like seven hours while the movers are in and out. So I was just like, I'm sorry, we can't do that. And he kind of pushed back a little bit, but it was fine. So a week later, I hadn't heard from him, which I thought was weird, but we kind of just thought maybe like he went out of town or something. And so that next Saturday, I go out to the bar that I go to every weekend with my friends. And as I'm walking in, I see him leaving. And like, it was obviously shocking to see him. It was the first time I saw him since we broke up, but I was like more shocked that he was in town and just like, hadn't asked to see

our dog. So of course the next day I get a text saying, text saying, can I get Max? So we have six days of back and forth trying to figure out the pickup situation. And I straight up said, please don't rely on me to transport Max. I'm getting the sense that you initiated the breakup. Yes, I did. Yeah. And so it's only been three weeks. Yeah. And, and so, and it's only been three weeks. Yeah. So, and was he sad or when you say it was like pretty cordial, was that more like he just handled it well or you've, he pretended, or at least you thought it may, maybe it was sincere that he also agreed that maybe, maybe he didn't want it, but maybe it's for the best. Like, like where did you where did you sense like his true feelings well so he is one of the issues that we

had is that he would not show emotion at all he would not share emotion he didn't want to feel any kind of emotion he didn't watch sad movies or listen to sad music so like i feel like so like he resistance to therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Even though we were in couples therapy. But yeah, he. Couples therapy is not the same as individual therapy. It's not. Yeah.

I have not seen any kind of emotion from him at all. Like when I said bye, I was crying and he was like sitting at his desk on his computer and I was like hugging him, crying, like saying my goodbye. And he just like barely even acknowledged that I was sleeping. That that i was leaving if that gives you any kind of idea well it's a definitely strong possibility that he is using max we'll call him max right as a yeah as a way to it's it's highly likely he hasn't given up on this relationship right and he's going about it so hard for me to believe though, but I see what you're saying. And that's what I was kind of worried about. I mean,

you're describing a guy who's not good at expressing his emotions. So it's going to be, he's going to be hard to read to begin with. And he didn't want the breakup. And it's hard to, especially for guys who struggle with that, he would rather just pretend it's the dog because he cares about the dog rather than saying, I'm sad.

I miss you. I'm, I feel lonely. feel lonely like i've you know whatever it is he can just have access to you and we like the leave behind or when people are just like i have to get my stuff and it's just like a pot that's just like a new pot yeah i have a bag there yeah it's just like but i need this bag it's like it's really important to me it was like bag man i grew up with you yeah um and three weeks is i mean it's raw yeah it's super raw and and especially for somebody that uh doesn't feel emotion or or deal with it very well three weeks is like three hours i mean there's i it's such a there there's so much raw nerve involved in all of it. And I think, I think the transfer of the dog is just like you were saying, it's sort of the, the way to stay close to you and have some sort of something going on.

If it was easy, then it's, then it's almost making the breakup too easy. Um, and I, I'm sure he probably still has that hope as you were saying of that it's not necessarily over it's just more of a three-week break yeah or or or to brian's point he hasn't even fully processed it yet like it wouldn't shock me if like you said depending how this dog thing goes that a month or two guys goes by a month or two goes by and he reaches back out. And depending on where you're at, he could maybe even express some anger and frustration where these appreciation you have for the breakup now, you might change your mind and be like, well, he's a real fucking dick. How are you in regards to the whole relationship i mean three weeks is it just happened like are you is it more of like a three

week test for him to show him like hey you need to get on your shit or i'm fucking gone or are you just done with it yeah great question we've had that like two or three times throughout the two and a half years. So this is like my, like I feel like I started detaching probably like three months before I actually broke up with him. So I feel great right now. So it sounds like you accepted this is who he is rather than in the past. You were hopeful that maybe he would open up or do the work and you've come to an acceptance of, you know, if he does the work fine, but that's like, I'm not waiting around for that to happen because I've tried.

Is co-parenting the dog like really a something in the forefront of your mind for you? Like you want to make this situation work or you just sort of want the whole thing to go away? Well, now not only do I want the whole thing to go away because I do feel like he's using it as a way to stay in my life, but now I feel like he has this, I mean, if you read the text, he has this like thing that I'm keeping the dog from him. I'm keeping Max from him. And so if he did pick him up now, I'm afraid he wouldn't give him back, but he could come. He he's had the past three weeks to come and pick him up from my parents' house every day if you wanted to there's no like world in which i'm keeping the dog from him so you've given him opportunities to see the dog and he hasn't taken them okay

yeah that's that's very telling um yeah i mean i i would first i mean but see now your fear of that he could take the dog and not bring the dog back is a very valid one i get that right but i would normally say come up with some sort of um rule or compromise where it's like okay if you want the dog it's absolutely your responsibility to come get the dog to bring the dog back to me and vice versa like if i want to get the dog from you, it's not, it's not, it's not one person dropping the dog off to the other person to like, you make rules within it. But that's a valid concern. I would also,

I would also have this all in writing. I'm serious. No, I was about to say that. Like, can you protect yourself? Like get him to like agree, whether text or email to like bring the dog back at a certain time,

some sort of acknowledgement. Yeah. The first interaction I was like, you can pick him up tomorrow and I will pick him up after work next week. Like I was very clear about when I was going to get him, but obviously he was like, are you going to bring him to me? That was kind of his response.

Yeah. You kind of need to come up with a custody like agreement that you both sign off on that you stick to. If you're really serious about custody and co-parenting. Good news for you is technically you got the dog. Right. Yeah, there's that too. I mean, you have that going for you. Well, so if you read the text, that's kind of what i want my next response to be is like it's clear based on the reality of the situation this dog is his he's

made that quite clear let's go ahead and uh coming to get the dog yeah let's go ahead and uh words and actions don't match up sharna yes uh why don't you be our wonderful caller and oh wait i'm doing the dramatic absolutely i Absolutely. I feel like you should be doing it. No, because I'm a much better observer. Oh my god, the pressure's on? Yeah. It's absolutely on. Alright. So I'm blue? Are you not entertained?

You're blue. Tuesday, May 24th, 9.51am. Nicely done. So good. I need to pick up some stuff. I will text you when I'm on51 a.m. Nicely done. So good. I need to pick up some stuff. I will text you when I'm on my way. Should be around 4 to 5. Okay.

Bring Max? I can't have Max at work all day. Would you be able to pick him up from LaBelle around noon? I have calls from like 11.30 to 1.30. Also, we need more time to move than two and a half hours. Can you either leave earlier to go to your mom's or work from the conference room? My mom would like to start tomorrow. I can't do that. I have stuff. I have a lot of stuff. I'll be gone pretty early on Friday.

I understand you are very busy, but so are my parents and moving is always a bigger task than anticipated. My mom needs to start tomorrow, so she will get in touch with you to coordinate when she needs to come over to start packing. Just good note, great job trying to empathize. Yeah. Yeah. Good on that. He doesn't do as much. He doesn't really. You don't need five days to move. I don't know if he was yelling.

You don't need five days to move out half of a one bedroom apartment. I'm leaving early Friday and I'm gone for three days. That is more than enough time. Why would we make this difficult when I'm gone for three days? I mean,

just, yeah. He has a point. Like, why do you need more than three days? Well, so it wasn't three days. Like what the part that the context that I think that I left out on accident that I should have said is that like, it was Memorial Day weekend and the movers were coming Saturday morning and he was leaving Friday morning. So we were going to have one day to pack up all of my stuff. Right. And so like, I needed more time that's tough moving is like you said it always takes longer than anticipated yeah there's always you're like

i could do it in five hours and 12 hours later you're still packing boxes but you're right i mean that wouldn't budge and we ended up moving that's the thing the most mature thing would have been like like whatever you need just let me know yeah why make it more difficult making he's he's setting an unnecessary boundary for the sake of setting the boundary. And he's also not appreciating that you're trying to make it. But he thought I was doing the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

So the movers may be able to do Sunday. If that ends up being the case, we won't need to start packing so early. We will know by tonight. And if they can only do Friday, Saturday, my mom will text you when she's coming tomorrow, Thursday to start. She doesn't respond to that. And then you write ETA 520-ish. And then he goes, no problem, at the gym.

And you said, and Jenna says, I will text you when I leave, just left. Getting that breakup body going. Revenge body. Okay, so somewhere in there you guys spoke Just left. Getting that breakup body going. Revenge body. Okay. So somewhere in there, you guys spoke and you were able to organize getting to his place. He asked you to leave his boxing gloves and Max. Yeah. So that's when he asked me to leave our dog when the movers were going to be there and

we were going to be moving out all day long, which I said, you know, no, no, we can't do that. I thought you were coming home tomorrow. We can't have Max while the movers are there. I can come tomorrow, but if you're finishing up today, you can bring Max and then I'd come right when you're done. You can put him in the crate. We cannot have Max while the movers are there, to repeat.

Are you still moving today? We are finished. Okay, thanks. Then on Sunday, June 5th, so about a week later can i get mad after the bar incident after the bar oh after you've seen him in town he's not been responding to you and he came to your where you live now so he definitely no it's where we lived before but that's where all of my friends are okay so he was like he would have known that you'd be there right yeah it's a good guess right yeah right hi can you pick him up tomorrow anytime afternoon i can pick He would have known that you'd be there, right? Yes, that was the point.

Hi, can you pick him up tomorrow anytime afternoon? I can pick him up after work next Tuesday and if you need him picked up any sooner, let me know. He doesn't respond. Why didn't he respond? He was at the gym. Come on, give him the next day. It's a lot of blood that rushes into the bicep.

The next day he's like, are you going to be in the same city anytime soon? Are you going to be in the same city anytime soon? Are you going to be in the city anytime soon? Please don't rely on me to transport Max. Let me know if you plan to pick him up. Why wouldn't you be able to bring him into the city? To the LaBelle spot or whatever. And then the next day.

Why are you not being responsive? Why aren't you not being responsive? If you want to see Max, you can pick him up anytime. And why wouldn't you be able to bring him into the city? Once I move to where you live, you're not going to want to drive all the way out there. And then on Thursday, he sends a chunk. This isn't right.

When we got a dog, in your words, it specifically had to be my dog. If I thought there was any chance that you would keep the dog we were buying i would never have gotten a dog there's no way he could have known that we were buying you didn't buy it but there's no way he would have been like if we break up you get that just no that's that's that's a revisionist history right there i understand that you love max and i initially thought co-parenting would work when we

were together. However, I have tried to make it work by suggesting numerous flexible pickup options end times, but you have shown that you are not interested in seeing Max unless he is delivered to you. So this setup cannot work, especially now that you are moving farther away. I truly wish you all the best and moving forward forward there is no need for further communication we got him as my dog you haven't paid a dollar for him why is he your dog what does he mean by money it's just not true okay if you have a response that makes sense i won't resent it and you can take him from me karma free what is this voodoo right i won't vex you i won't vex you yeah and then you don't respond to that he writes nothing question mark you're just going

to take him knowing that he's mine that's okay that's good job guys this was that was on thursday okay and we need to respond to that. I mean. Or I block him. I don't know. That's kind of what I wanted help with is like, do I walk away? When he's talking about it being his dog and dollars, like has he paid for vet bills? Like, is there anything that would make him think that he was like, he had more skin in the game?

So he paid for like his first two vet visits and then I've pretty much paid for everything else. We split training. I mean, the, the, you haven't paid a dollar thing is just yeah so if if not that i think it would but if he brought this to like small claims court you had you could show you could show like receipts totally yes okay and you would be able to prove like clearly he hasn't paid for everything here you know like yes it was either mutual or someone slightly paid for more and also you brought him home neither of you bought the dog you technically you did yeah because like nothing's free and they they waived any fees feeds you being an employee.

Right. Okay. I feel bad for him in a sense that if he likes the dog, but realistically. And that's how I felt at the start too. Because obviously he loves him. Yes, but he's also made no effort to go out of his way to get him. He wants you to serve him to bring this dog to him. It's all about making you do something for him. i think the dog is the pawn in the whole situation i think if he really loved the dog

he'd drive out there and get the dog yeah i think agree and there was also like a week of that gap between him like asking about him like he was asking if you would leave him when you were moving and then it was the following sunday where he's like when can i get him like and it's probably only because i saw him out yeah yeah because then he felt like, when can I get him? And it's probably only because I saw him out. Yeah. Yeah, because then he felt like he had to say something because you saw him. I think it's okay if he hates you. Your ex. Yeah, I can live with the bad juju, right?

I don't think it is bad juju. I don't think it would be bad juju. I think that... Well, I mean, because he's like, you know, saying that... He'll hate you and talk shit about you to his friends and his group of friends. He's going to hate you and talk shit about you anyway. It has nothing to do with the dog. If you did everything he wanted in regards to the dog, he would find some other reason. Totally.

He'd still have something else. Because it's not about the dog. It's it's he's pissed that you wanted out of the relationship and you got the fuck out and he's hurting and not saying anything about it. So instead, he's going to be venomous. He didn't come to the table with compromise, with understanding the language that you were using in trying to be empathetic to him. He was very short with you. I don't feel like there was even proper communication from him in this. It was more about trying to make you do what he wanted you to do.

And so for me, I don't even think you need to respond to it. I think you've said your piece. You can do whatever you want. So the question is, what will make you feel best? Right. Well, I already wrote my vent text and sent it to my mom and my friends. You know? Okay.

You did your dry run. Yeah. friends you know okay you did your dry run yeah and the important thing in this is that like his reaction is not really the point of that your next follow-up this is more what you need what what's going to make you feel like you you've done everything you should or could have done to like make yourself feel like you know like you don't you're not gonna have to apologize for something down the road like you did your best you've tried etc etc so like i don't i agree i don't think you need to send anything but if if you just want to say again almost kind of repeat what you've already said in a concise text my my two cents on this and then i'll bow out gracefully because this is your show.

No, no, no. This is a collaboration. I would call. I think a lot of context is lost in texting. So I would just call and say how you feel, what your intentions are, that he, you know, if whenever he wants the dog to text you and let you know a day that he wants to come pick the dog up. Um, because then he can't, he can't ever claim that he didn't understand what you were saying. If you, if you speak it, I think sometimes, uh, people text me and I, if I read something wrong, um, it's not at all what they had in mind or what they intended. Uh, and, but there's no way in

going back and forth with text to really make sense of that. See, for us to sit here and speak to you now, I get the context of how you were, how you're feeling currently, uh, how you would like this to proceed. And so I, I feel like he might get more of that from a phone call. That was my two cents. I'm out. So I think that's great. I think that's great. He just doesn't agree. Well, it just depends. Because I agree with you.

People, like we always say, people don't read texts and how you send them. They read them and how they're feeling. Right. If you want to come to some compromise with him, then I 100% agree with Brian. The only way to do that would be a text. And if you think you can get to some sort of mutual agreement or resolution, with him, then I 100% agree with Brian. The only way to do that would be a text. Because he's worried about the juju and the karma and all that. And if you think you can get to some sort of mutual agreement or resolution, absolutely a call or FaceTime is the way to do that. Text won't do it. But if you have decided,

if you think there's a chance he could try to steal the dog, or you think you're not going to get to any resolution, that you're just going to say what you've already said, then the text isn't to get a resolution. It's to just say your piece and be done. Or you could just block them and disappear. Those are basically your three options. I think they're all potentially fine. So it's just what do you think is going to make you feel like the most like you

know what i've done what i can and now i'm just i'm done with it and i'm moving forward so it's more what do you think would make you feel the best my instinct is to just like walk away and not necessarily block him but just like leave it where it's at and hopefully he doesn't you know he asked in that text like he said you know give me an explanation why kind of i yeah yeah i'm gonna be pretending to be reasonable so you could just spell it out for him and say i know i like i was the one who actually got so and so we never agreed to you know whatever we joked about you know he, he said, I would keep the dog or whatever you like that, that's irrelevant. And we've both split bills since then. And listen,

at the end of the day, I got the dog and I'm sorry if you hate me for this, but like, I've tried to do the co-parenting thing. It's not, it doesn't seem feasible. We both need to move on. I think it's for the best. And this is, I'm going to do this. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but like, don't apologize for doing it. You can apologize for how it might make him feel and then, and just be done. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like that's, I don't know. I'm like 50, 50 on that. That's kind of like my. Either do that or just don't respond at all. Just like, or, you know, or even just a simple response of like, I've already said, like, I've already given you this information, you know, so you, you can read back and figure it out on your own if you want.

He has your mom's number, right? You was saying my mom will reach out to you. I don't know. This might be a terrible idea. I'm going to say it out loud. It might sound terrible. But what if you, what if you do send him a text saying along the lines of, listen, we shared this dog fully. I've given you so many opportunities to co-parent with this, but now this is unhealthy for me to be in communication with you. We both need to move on. Say us. For us. We both need to move on. I know you love Max. So if you do make the choice that you would like to make an effort

to see him, to come get him, you have my mum's number. But for my own health, I am going to block you because I don't want to keep having this back and forth with you. But if you do change your mind, I'm here, I'm willing, I'm ready. And I know that Max would love to see you. You know, you give him an option of finding a way to communicate with you, but it's not directly to you. I mean, of course you'd probably have to check with your mom. I actually kind of think Shauna nailed it. You gave him a really inconvenient option to have Max in his life. Yeah.

So it's like if he really wants Max. If you want to see Max, you can come to my mom. I won't be there. Yeah. Hang out with my dad. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But she knows the deal.

He doesn't get to take the dog, but he can spend time with the dog. He won't take you up on it. He won't. He won't. I doubt he will. But you're giving him an option. I fucking actually love this. And then you say, I'm going to block you,

not because there's anything against you, but I need to move on and I need to just stop having this back and forth. I kind of really love that, Sharna. Yay, nailed it. I think it's really good. I think it's healthy for both of you because what's happening right now isn't. For sure.

Yeah, I agree. That's really good. Thank you. All right. I think you have our opinion yeah okay yeah no i really appreciate it good luck with it yeah let us know what you end up doing okay i will yeah good luck this one's a tough one yeah it's never it's never easy uh but i'm glad that you seem to be doing well and uh breakups suck but it's it feels real good when you know you made the right call. Right.

All right, we'll take care. Thank you guys. Thank you Jenna. Thank you. Bye. Bye-bye. Sharna, Brian,

thanks for coming. You guys are fantastic. Thanks for having us. Tons of fun. Very insightful. I think my audience will have loved and really enjoyed

hearing you guys talk about your relationship, what you've learned. You guys give great advice. Clearly, you're two people who have lived some life and experience. A little bit. No, it's great, though. But the whole point of what we try to do on this show is just share some nuggets, not because we're experts or not because we know better than someone else, but we've learned from our own mistakes. And I think all of us, you know, sometimes you wish,

you're just like, if I just would have just done that 10 years ago, that would have been a little easier on my life. Yeah, I wish I had somebody that was giving me advice that would have helped. Yeah. So I think what you both had to say was really great, and I appreciate you guys being so transparent. Thank you. Awesome, dude.

Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, it was a real pleasure. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. If there's nothing else, we'll see you back on Monday.

Bye. You're crazy. Bye.