The Viall Files - E438 Going Deeper w/ Hannah Berner - Male Engagement Rings & 3rd Wheels

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined by comedian and host of the Berning In Hell Podcast, Hannah Berner! On this episode we get the latest from Hannah and dive back into the juiciest pop culture stories of the week. We first talk about Hannah marrying Des Bishop, why we should normalize engagement rings for men, the real reason Hannah isn’t on Summer House anymore, and how being in a relationship changes your brand. We also dive into Brad Pitt suing Angelina Jolie for selling part of a vineyard to a Russian Oligarch, how many friends you really need, Nick causing a divorce, and how to be a good third wheel. We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours caller who wonders if the text she received ending a situationship may actually have a possibility to turn back into something in the future. Now she gets advice and reflects on if she even likes him that much and if things may have been downhill since the first date.  “I’m playing hard to get and we’re married”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET  on Amazon's Amp app.  Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Our listeners get 10% off their first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALLFILES Wondery: Follow QUEEN OF HEARTS wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can listen early on Amazon Music and ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @hannahberner @giggly.squad Hannah’s Website: http://www.Hannahberner.com  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined by amanda in studio ali is in her home we haven't had the band like together for a while we've been doing skeleton crew yeah just you know but we're here like we're as far as you dear listener are concerned where we are here just not in the same room how's everyone everyone doing? Fabulous. I feel like a medical miracle. If you thought that you couldn't get COVID twice within four and a half months, I'm here to prove you wrong. Yeah. A lot of repeat. Were your symptoms more or less like, what was that experience? Well, last time I had COVID, I had strep at the same time.

So that was miserable. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. So I felt like it was primarily strep. This time, the first 24 hours were brutal, but then I felt like I significantly improved. You look great. Yeah. Knock on wood.

COVID has yet to come knocking on my door. Same. Well, I always say I've yet to test positive because I don't know if I have an asymptomatic. Yeah, me neither. And I know it's morally neutral. It doesn't matter. But I do have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder where I'm like, I evaded COVID so far. I'm going to get it ASAP now that I've said that. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't want to get it. People definitely have had like – there's been studies about long-term residual effects of getting COVID. My friend said all of the food – or off and on, the food she eats tastes like sulfur. And it's been like six months. Yeah. So I'm definitely trying not to get it.

On a lighter note, 90% of people want to date someone who go to therapy. Okay. So this is something, I don't know if it's been popping up on people's for you pages, but Haley Bieber previously did an interview and they were playing a game of, is it a red flag if someone you're dating or interested in dating hasn't done therapy. And she had a very eloquent explanation of, you know, she would say it's a red flag, but also it's very inaccessible to certain people in different areas due to financial reasons. But she did very much recommend it, especially if you are thinking more long-term or if you want to marry someone. So also according to Hinge's 2022 dating prediction data, 91% of users want to date someone who goes to therapy. How many of those users go to therapy? How many of that 91%? Because weren't you saying in your

matchmaking job, there's a lot of like i want x y and z for my partner many of which are qualities that that person doesn't yeah have themselves well something's not adding up because everybody says they want it but haven't been able to find it and so if the number of people who wanted it were the number of people who possessed it we would have like everyone saying that no one asks questions on dates a hundred percent and everyone's saying that no one asks questions on dates. A hundred percent. And everyone's saying everyone's talking about themselves on dates. It's like, that's weird, but it's also interesting.

The data also said that 89% of daters are more likely to agree to a second date. If the person mentions therapy on the first date. So clearly you're going gonna hook them when you're talking about there's hayley bieber i you know like i it's like everything else these days i think red flags like what's a red flag i think red flags are completely subjective there's like your obvious ones like if they're rude to waiters like yes if they don't tip if they get unbelievably drunk on your day like that's a red flag or incredibly reactive for small reasons but like the only

red flag when it comes to therapy on a first date would be someone like saying how stupid therapy is and how they don't believe in it and how they like advocate against therapy that's a red flag but someone who hasn't gone to therapy who might be like yeah i don't know i just haven't done it or like you know i'm not sure if it's for me but whatever like yeah i feel like it's less of a red flag for not going and more green flag if someone mentions they go like i i find it to be because well a question to the group is what are the assumptions you make about someone if they say they're in therapy? Because for me, I think of a higher level of self-awareness, reflectiveness, not holding

on to certain stereotypes about the need to go through things with independence and white knuckle it, but rather seek help in appropriate areas, all of which are qualities that I love in a partner. And I think also if they're open about maybe challenges they've gone through and then they pair that with therapy, like I'm automatically, it's a green fly because I'm like, oh, you don't just, again, do the white knuckle approach or try and suppress it. You want to actually grow from this. And that I think is a good indicator of them being able to grow in a relationship as well. One thing I thought was so hot was I was dating this guy who he was kind of a robot in certain ways. He was incredibly polite and nice, but almost to a fault,

or not to a fault, but just very, wow. Sometimes it was just like robot, perfect person, perfect habits. And he mentioned that he is no longer in therapy once a week, but he said he goes once a month just to make sure he's maintaining his toolkit

and checking in. And I was like, wow. That's what I do. He's evolved. You only go once a month no I go every other week okay and it's just a maintenance thing it's a tune-up yeah and sometimes like I'm like I got nothing Darlene you know I'm feeling pretty good we figure out something and half the time I'm like I'll like get her advice on like things we talk about on

the show like make sure like I'm assessing a situation correctly I'm like hey it's it's I'm paying for the hour so I just use it however I want you know it's like an exorcism when I go to therapy like I feel like I this stuff that I didn't even know I was bottling up like I have started I've been in a real crying era in therapy where recently I just, I start crying. And sometimes it's not even. I've yet to cry in therapy. Oh. Oh.

Was that a red flag? Oh God. You're done. Canceled. I'm a big crier. I'm a crier on my day-to-day life. But I was actually, that was something I was talking because I had a little bit of a meltdown. I always get the worst Sunday scaries, like really atrocious terrible panic Sunday scaries and I had a

meltdown in Griffith Park I was absolutely I sitting on my perfect picnic blanket with a thing of raspberries in a book it was supposed to be self-care and then I got super overwhelmed and I ended up calling my mom and I was like this is yesterday this was yesterday and I was like the thing in LA that I'm struggling with is I have some friends who I really, really like, but I don't have anybody at the level of friendship where they would check in on me. Like I have friends where we could make really low stakes plans where we could just hang out in each other's presence, like quality time.

But I don't have friends who would reach out and make sure I'm doing okay the same way my friends from home would. And my mom, when we were talking about crying in front of friends, she was like, it's a risk, but it's a risk that's worth taking. It's always going to feel vulnerable to be the first person who cries in front of someone. So are you just going to bring out friends and start crying and see what happens? No, I had a full breakdown in front of a friend, not this past weekend, but the weekend before. And I was getting in my head and I was like, everyone hates me and everyone's going to leave me. And she gripped my

face and was crying herself. And she was like, I am never leaving you. And it was a very beautiful, dramatic moment. Yeah. I only cry for commercials. And I'll call her daddy. I'm more of a happy tears guy. I'm not a sad tears guy. Yeah, sometimes when I feel a sense of community, like sometimes when people do the wave at sports stadiums, I tear up because I'm like, look at all these people moving in synchronicity.

We're in bar class. When it's like a bunch of women moving together, I'm like, wow. Well, speaking of sports fans out there, big announcement. Some of you on my Instagram might have noticed that every Wednesday I've been doing a podcast hour on Amazon Live, their new platform called Amp. I have a sports show, and we've been kind of tinkering with it the past couple months, but it's official. It's out.

It's called Fandemonium. My co-host, her name is Lindsay McCormick. She's worked with ESPN, Sports Illustrated, the NFL Live. She's great, and we do it every Wednesday at 3 Pacific, 6 p.. So, uh, if you're

listening today, uh, check us out again, just go, you'll, we'll put these stuff on the show description to download the amp. It's free. It's live. Eventually we might interact with some people. We just talk a lot of, uh, Wisconsin sports, uh, some national sports as well. I'm a big Packer fan. So all you sports fans out there, I know there are many who listen to the show. Check us out again, 3 p.m. Pacific. Eventually, we will drop a podcast that you can listen to at your convenience. But right now, you can only listen to us live. So check us out. Get it while it's hot. Get it while it's hot. Well, it's hot every Wednesday at 6 p.m. Eastern. Also, we have another lovely office hours this episode.

And if you want that to be you, shoot an email. Send in those office hours text, asknickatcaspi.com. Hannah Berner is with us. Delightful. Delightful. So funny. So funny. So funny.

And I think she kind of, I feel like she pushes you, not in an antagonistic way at all, but I feel like we really got some goods from this interview. There's a mutual respect. Yes. I'm a hard nut to crack, but you just have to know how to do it. I'm not unwilling to be cracked. Yeah, it's like an egg where it's like you just got to do it gently

so that way you don't get shell all over the place and break the yolk. No, it's just more like a door. I'm a door that's really heavy and hard to open, but not locked. Interesting. Just got to jiggle that key. There you go. Not give up.

Hannah Burner, everybody. Hannah, welcome. Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. First thing I say to Nick is, oh my God, it's the first time I've ever met you. I've known this man for six years. I met him in person multiple times. Why am I talking to your producer instead of you I'm yeah I couldn't pronounce your last name we talked about Wisconsin we go way back yeah

then you went to Wisconsin go badgers it's okay but like on on call her daddy uh Alex was like Nick welcome I go thanks for coming that's when you're like hi I'm Nick and I respond I go, thanks for coming. That's when you're like, hi, I'm Nick. And I respond, I go, nice to meet you. I'm Nick. And you're like, damn it. We've both learned and grown and realized things.

We've evolved. We're both taken now. Wow. Look at us. We used to be like city slickers. You got married. Just being creepy around the city. Yeah, I did.

When? Like a month ago. How's it going so far i'll say nice like your husband it's not it's you feel more secure i thought it was kind of bullshit and just like a waste of money but the act of the ceremony really does so you feel more secure than stuck oh for sure because i don't know some people might be like oh fuck now we need a lawyer i i guess um he has to wear a ring now before he didn't have to wear a ring i hate how these guys during their engagements just walk around free should we be normalizing men's engagement rings absolutely i'm down for that i'm down give me some jewelry for sure and however who's paying for that the girl the girl why not we make money now i'm just i just want to make sure i mean it doesn't have to be flashy we don't really talk bachelor on this

but like dean told you know dean likes to say crazy shit yeah uh and apparently because a lot of people ask him if him and kaylin are going to get engaged and he said i think on his podcast i'll buy your ring if you buy me a van and did not go over well oh I do feel like the finances start evening out but I don't like when dudes are like I spent 30 grand on engagement ring for you so now you have to give me all this shit I don't play that game okay I don't play that game however there's also the other argument that once a guy has a ring he's like more attractive attractive because girls are like oh and do you so do you really want your guy to wear a ring when he doesn't need a lawyer to break up with you? You know, I also have a weird thing where I want other girls to think my guy's hot.

Like I'll get jealous, obviously, if they were to hook up or something. But I like girls to be like, ooh, he's taken. Ooh, he's hot. I think it is so satisfying, especially because men have a track record of looking bad or not taking good photos of themselves. And so it is really satisfying that moment where you do get to show like a presentable picture of your boyfriend, partner,

and people are like, oh, damn. Good for you. I don't. I mean, not together. I've never nailed the photo together. Nick, you and your girlfriend are like not attainable beauty. She does a good job of making sure we look good.

I take some bad pictures. I take some bad pictures of you. It is so hard to get two people to look good. I almost fired Amanda once. What guest was it? I don't remember who it was, but we have lots of guests. We have two guests a week. But I saw, I didn't like, I was like, oh man, I took a picture of me and our guest and I

didn't look at him. And I went home and I was literally, I was like, what the fuck are these? You're like, do I look like that? Do I actually look like that? I love Nick's self-aware vanity. It makes me so happy. But I think I also fuck up photos because I get nervous. It's always when you're not trying that you're like, am I gorgeous?

Totally. Like you just look at a camera. But when it's with my husband, I'm like, don't fuck it up. And I'm like, that's seven chins. Who thought you could even do that? Nick, remember when you told me I was going to burn out? I said, be careful that you don't burn out. Exactly.

And how does one do that? It's a burnout. It's a real thing. And like many things, therapy is a way to ensure that you are your best self mentally to avoid things like burnout. Well, BetterHelp is here to help you work on all those issues. BetterHelp is making you get the mental help you need easier than ever before because you're able to connect with a therapist or a mental health professional. They have thousands, literally thousands of therapists that work with BetterHelp so they can assign to you a therapist that is right for you. And the best thing about this is that you don't have to go with the first one. Sometimes finding

the right therapist is a bit of trial and error, a little bit like dating, and BetterHelp makes that super easy, super convenient. You can do it from the comfort of your home. You can do it from your phone, your computer. They just make it so easy and convenient. BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video phone and online chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy, and you can be matched with a therapist in under $40. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. That's better,

H-E-L-P, dot com slash vile files. Get out there, get therapy, better help. Dating is hard, apparently.

I don't know. Hearing other people's dates can be entertaining. And that's where Queen of Hearts comes in, a new dating show that gives you a front row seat to hear all the incredible highs and cringe-worthy lows of modern dating.

And I say here because contestants only get to use their voices to seduce one lucky suitor. Queen of Hearts strips away the fake tans, six-pack abs, and movie star smiles, because we all have those, to focus on what really matters, how good they are in the booth. Each week, the Queen of Hearts, RuPaul's Drag Race veteran Jujubee, will help these blind daters skip the standard cliche, dating small talk. Traffic sucks. The weather is great. These are my dietary restrictions. And get right to sometimes funny and sometimes sexy games.

At the end of each week, we'll find out who is one step closer to love and who is headed back to the apps. Follow Queen of Hearts wherever you get your podcast, or you can listen early on Amazon Music and ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in the Apple Podcast or the Wondery app. Did you live together before you got married? Oh, we moved in together pretty quick. It was during COVID.

So we met. I shot a reality TV show where I was locked in a house and didn't see him for like five weeks. So we were wanting each other. It was like I gave him a little taste, and I'm like, I'm crying and yelling at people in a house. You can't get me. And then right afterwards, I think you just move in immediately.

See if it works. Why wait two years when the second you're with him, you're like, I can't fucking take how he leaves forks in the sink. It's kind of what Natalie and I did only because, well, she lived in Georgia. Yeah. And it was like, you know, it was like move here. And then she did the whole like, I'll get my own place. I'm like, let's be real here. Yeah. That's pointless. You're like, you know how many Uber rides it here. And then she did the whole like, I'll get my own place. I'm like, let's be real here. Like, that's pointless.

You're like, you know any Uber rides? I just bought a house. Like a big house. Oh, okay, daddy. Like, you're just going to be here anyway. So let's just see if it works. Yeah. Also, I think when you know you like being around the person, it's good.

And two good looking people can see each other for so long if it's constantly like fancy dates. Put them in a house with no TV or bad Netflix shows and sit on a couch and see if you enjoy time with them. That's a real fucking date. Take him to the DMV. Take him to HomeGoods and annoy the shit out of him and smell every candle for 10 hours. Like that's how you find out if you're compatible. Oh sure, yeah. Pick a fight. Start a fight on the first date.

How do you fight? That's sort of, that's. Isn't compatible fighting what makes a good relationship? 100%. Oh sure, yeah, pick a fight. Start a fight on the first date. How do you fight? Isn't compatible fighting what makes a good relationship? 100%. You don't really know if you're going to work out until you know you can fight. Do you remember your first, do either of you remember your first fight? I remember my first tension moment. And I do, I think it says a lot. Look at your face right now.

Oh, do I have a bad face? No, he's buffering. He definitely has a, Nick has a rusting, disgusted face no he's buffering he definitely has a buffering he has a nick has a resting bitch face disgusted face he's just like i do and it really gets me in trouble because they'll be like my whole life i really struggle to be like what's wrong and i'm like what what am i doing you just look like something smells bad resting ick face but i mean it's handsome no but i'm yeah listen it's really gotten me in trouble it's it's handsome. No, but I'm... Yeah, listen, it's really gotten me in trouble. It's worked for and against me. It's bad for reality TV because they just cut to you always.

Yeah, I give them a lot of like, if you want to make this guy an asshole. But then I'm the mysterious guy. They can't figure out. And it's been both good and bad for me in dating situations and in life. You have a resting disgruntled boss mood. It's just like, guys, I mean, the manager meeting is happening and no one's got their shit together. It's been my whole life. I do have to say, you know when someone causes the first drama in a relationship,

like a guy will call me and be like, you, you, and you just immediately don't give a fuck. And you're like, cool, go find, cool, go away. Like, I don't give a fuck and you're like cool go find cool go away like i don't give a shit like that would be kind of my reaction when something was immediately not easy where with des i actually was kind of like i was being naughty and i like posted something to like make him a little jealous maybe not like deliberately but it wasn't i wasn't like sounds deliberate i wasn't considering i was just living my life the way you described it sounds like you knew what you were doing yes i'm i'm evil and um it was planned out but i i we weren't together yet and i kind of was testing him i guess which is not which is naughty we all can like everyone's manipulative we all be testing

we i'm testing every day i'm test i'm playing hard to get still with this man. And we're married. But he basically called me and he was like, hey, if you want to play games, that's cool. But I really like you and I'm really not into the game playing. And I put my tail between my legs immediately and was like, I'm so sorry. That was so not cool of me. And I'm sorry that it hurt you. And immediately I became this person I've never been that was saying sorry.

Now, I feel like why it works so well is because of how he said it. He was calm and he just kind of called me out on my bullshit and I thought it was hot. Well, also reassuring you. He was vulnerable. Yes. Because I think a lot of younger guys or less mature guys might have been like, I don't play games. Why do you always do this? And then they'll accuse.

Rather, he was more like, I don't know why you do it always do this and then little cues rather he was more like i don't know why you do it i'm confused i like you and and that vulnerability was kind of like well why am i and i think without that i like you i really like you it would have just been a stupid fight it would have turned into a fight he would have like sat he would have like he would have said something to you that would have pissed you off he had like a i feel this way yeah and you can take with that what you want and that was fucking hot and but it also takes him he knew like he knew how he felt and i do think that there's a lot of i don't know you could be messy but you have to kind of put your you have to be honest with shit you just

have to be honest and put it out there and i appreciate that with him i want to go back to engagement rings for males i feel like it's an interesting because i'm down for it but do you think there'll be more infidelities in engagements as a result of men wearing engagement rings and looking hotter and then i asked the question on my tiktok uh that you know i got a lot of i i i was trying to trigger people on a friday night and i i asked if what would you rather be cheated on or be fallen out of love with over time oh it's fucking monday morning nick i can't deal with this kind of heartbreak a lot of people i, went with cheated on. Oh. Yeah. Which I would rather be cheated on.

No, like a lot of people wanted to be fallen out of love with over time. They thought being cheated on would be harder. Yeah. I would rather be cheated on than fallen out of love with over time. Well, cheated on, you're just like, ew, you're a douche.

Where falling in love over time it's like oh they know everything about me and they just are not impressed anymore they're just like i'm good no yeah i understand your heart and i could do without it yeah it's not like one impulsive decision right it's like i know you and i have carefully considered how much i do not love you anyway it's like a well thought out like, I've done research for 20 years and my thesis statement is, you suck. You're not the one, baby. Because I've had

before, I've said to a therapist, what if he cheats on me? And she gave me the greatest answer. She's like, they do. And that's him. And you can't control that. And then you can be cheated on and they can regret it. And they can wish a reflection of that. And then you can be cheated on and they can regret it and they can wish they had you back and then you have the choice to either take them back or not.

And if you don't want them back, you get that ego boost as opposed to like falling out of love with over time. They're just like, no, I've really done my due diligence. Yeah. I love to fail fast. And the sight of you is disgusting. I like to fail fast. I don't want 20 years, kids, houses, jewelry.

Actually, I could use that. I feel like engagement rings and males, net positive. It equals the playing field. I also think it then presents the opportunity for a Becca Thomas situation where women propose to men. Because I think it's beautiful to proclaim in a formalized way how important someone is to you. And on the outside chance your fiance cheats on you as a result of more women finally hitting on him because he has an engagement ring, now you know. Now you're not marrying the guy who was going to cheat on you five years from now. True.

But it's not going to be like an Axe commercial where the second a guy puts it on, all these women start licking his face. But I like the power dynamic shifting. Because you know how women are just like, I'm just going to sit around and wait for him to decide he wants me. Where if there's an option of women proposing, I think it adds some more balance into the relationship. And I'm just a feminist. We still live in a world where we get, I mean, asked all the time, like, I like him. He won't ask me out. What should I do?

Ask him out. Yeah. I like him. He won't ask me out. What should I do? Ask him out. Yeah. But it is still a rather popular opinion to not, if you're a woman in a heterosexual relationship, to chase or put yourself out there.

But you probably have a lot of successful women that listen to the pod. And I feel like a lot of guys are insecure dating women who make more money than them. It's a thing, yeah. Sometimes. And I think if women propose. That's what them it's a thing yeah sometimes and i think if i mean that's what we hear from a women audience it would give it more of a balance where it's like oh like you know she doesn't have to be taken care of all the time i like getting taken care of emotionally but i don't need it monetarily it doesn't like turn me on sometimes sometimes i mean sometimes it does

sometimes you want daddy to pay for daddy It also speaks to like the tendency for, because I think it's inherently vulnerable to put yourself out there in that way. And then it feels, I think, sometimes even more vulnerable for women because there's this conditioning to be chosen as opposed to be the chooser. And I think it could be very cool if we started

letting women choose. We're just going to have to over time. I just don't like feeling indebted. Sometimes a ring could be like the ultimate drink at the bar. Like, I bought you a drink at the bar. And I don't want to deal with that. Like, I want to get him stuff so he feels like I'm, yeah, I don't want to be indebted to him for like a blowjob.

I want to give a blowjob because I want to, not because he spent money on a fancy ring. Yeah, well, I guess this comes, I feel like you're going to know if you're going to get engaged to a guy who would throw that in your face. True. Right? True.

No. And I feel some people weirdly like that shit. I don't know. True. True. Yeah. They want to be like, feel weaker in that way in the romantic sense, even if you're a badass boardroom bitch. So why aren't you on Summer House anymore? Well, I did get married, which I don't think was ideal not ideal they don't they don't believe in marriage i do think like when i was in my 20s and i was single going off to the hamptons was like so fun it was great and then our last my last season we were like stuck in covid i met des and it was a really hard season and it just kind of, my life changed a lot since then.

And now I'm pursuing comedy full time and going on cool podcasts like this. You're really, I see you. Well, I mean, I see, I guess it's your Tik Toks, but you're a lot of comedy stuff.

That's amazing. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've performed like almost every night in the city working on my spots and then travel. When did you start? Well, I started at Betches really where I started comedy, like writing funny sketches and tweeting and writing memes.

I called it like a comedy boot camp. And then I started my podcast and I've been doing stand up for like three to four years now. And I'm putting together, I have my hour that I'm just cutting the fat, making it better. And I have a lot of really great New York City comedians and LA comedians around me that have given me a lot of great insight and advice in the comedy world. I just, I love performing and making people laugh. That's amazing. Have you gotten heckled? Oh.

In a memorable way? Or just like the stupid? I mean, the other day I was way? Or just like a stupid. I mean, the other day I was doing a show at like 1 a.m. And there were like 12 people in the crowd. And these guys were eating oysters. And they were like, eat an oyster. And I'm like, fuck it, I'll take an oyster shot.

I don't get a lot of. I've had. Okay, if a drunk dude starts yelling shit, the audience, like my crowd is hilarious. And we'll just cause a feminist riot and yell at him um but eventually we get him back on our team i i love the crowd work aspects um because you don't know what's gonna happen and when you come up with something funny and everyone's surprised you feel like a magician on stage yeah it's gotta feel real yeah and podcasting helps me it's like my warm-up podcasting and just riffing i come up with a lot of bits from going on podcasts and talking about a topic i never thought of before but um i just like expressing

myself and it's unedited and beautiful and raw and scary but that's kind of i like to challenge myself you come up with a bit of my men and engagement rings i actually have been kind of working on it there you go and i'll credit it's okay. Should we dive into some pop culture? Yeah, absolutely. Or just cultural, topical things? Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie. There is a bit of a lawsuit situation. I just feel like everybody's suing everyone right now. And maybe it's always like that, but it feels especially...

Well, it seems like... Well, this is off the heels of the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial. Next big celebrity trial. And celebrity and yeah and black china even though that was not really super contested like the kardashian i mean i'm a i'm a big brad pitt fan so i really i need i would prefer him not to be litigious well just i i don't want to look at him differently yeah you know i don't know what's going to come out i think he's the one suing or allegedly it seems like he's the one who's asked for a uh a trial by jury lawsuit against his ex-wife angeli this all seems to be over like a some winery yes so miraval miraval angelina jolie sold her stake in the company to a Russian oligarch.

And Brad Pitt is claiming that she did this as an instigator shit-stirring move to make his life worse. As she should. Like a total Ted Lasso situation. Let her have some fun. I actually don't know anything about the sale, but I do think when celebrities put their shit in the public eye, like Brad Pitt, I don't want to know his private life. It's like Will Smith.

I don't want to know the things going on in his personal life. I just like him as an actor. You didn't want to know that Will Smith's a cuckold? No. I want to know about their beef with their wives. Because once they do, they can really take people down in the public eye when it's like angelina first brad well it well brad's the one asking for this so it begs the question is brad just like i guess maybe johnny depp or he's like i'm tired of protecting you and and like all maybe he feels like Angelina has been a certain way towards him throughout this divorce.

Yeah. And maybe he's tired of things getting leaked out about him. Cause like every once in a while I'll go to the grocery store and there's something about like Brad Pitt and drinking or, or some X, Y, and Z. And it's always like,

you never really hear too much. It's always, it's like that just a little bit like with the and maybe he maybe he has tapes i don't know or is him just saying this a threat to to like angelina's team saying i i want to take you to court and knowing that angelina won't want some of her dirty laundry aired i i do get entertained though with rich people problems it's like what 180 million dollar property and they're like um it's just interesting to see the shit that they're worried about at night i it seems like brad i don't think this is about the winery for brad no if i know brad and i like the thing i do i believe he does i feel like this is this is the icing on the cake

it was like you know what mine but i feel like this is more about the kids and the custody battle and and the fact is there a custody battle seems like there is i mean they've been divorced for a while and it's they're still like at each other's throats. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that she fucking hates him. Ooh. Oh my God. This is some LAT.

Someone told me that he told them my ex-wife fucking hates me. What did Brad do? You know him. What did he do? I don't know. It sounded like, you know, it's like someone says, yeah, my ex-wife fucking hates me fucking hates me yeah it's just like she just fucking hates me yeah i don't i'm sure they all did things to each other i don't know if there was there wasn't a my ex-wife hates me because i yeah did x y or z the problem with being this fucking famous is anything that gets public

i don't think is good for the kids look at for anyone next thing you know yeah you're only good for podcasters oh actually it's great for us it. It's good for anyone. Next thing you know, yeah, you're all on Twitter. It's only good for podcasters. Actually, it's great for us. It is great for us and engagement. But the kids will never unsee certain things written about their parents. And it becomes a public battle of opinion, which is a messy bitch. Hopefully, they can figure it out outside of the court. I mean, that's the right thing to say.

Yeah, to settle. That was the right thing to say, Nick. Good job. But people would lose it. Oh, my God. Imagine Brad and Angelina in court, and Angelina's like, I didn't know. On the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, they were talking about shit

that really had nothing to do with the trial. We're going to get, if Angelina and Brad go to trial, we're going to like looking at all these photographs of her making out with her brother from like 2000 whenever you had to slip it in there's a lot yep i don't know if you remember but she went through a phase kind of hot and it's open mouth like this is not a peck this is there's a lean back yeah there's a lot going on there well another kind of topical trial that we should get to is Todd and Julie Chrisley's fraud situation. They always looked like they were up to some shit.

Look, you're not a successful reality TV star until you've committed tax fraud. Well, then I will never be. Always. You're a successful entertainer. Always pay the government. But yeah, I don't know how these people like. Like the situation, like they're the first people. If I was.

I don't. What is it, the IRS? They're the first people I'd go out down my list. I'd be like, yeah, I'm checking the guy from Jersey Shore ASAP. Right. 100%. More money, more problems. I'm curious what people think because there's an article on Vox about the case for fewer friends.

What's the argument? What's the case? It's basically saying that the biggest marginal benefit from friends is going from zero to one. So there is a vastly different and positive outcome. Like quality of life from the coming of one friend. Yeah. And it's not even just like a social thing. It's literally like health things that they measure.

Yeah. Health things that they measure. I'm a scientist. I was like, yes, absolutely. She's right. We don't ever want to be accused of acting like doctors. So we really try to dumb it down. But that kind of reminds me not to put it back to more money, more problems, but it's like the lottery where they say only about up to a certain amount of money actually makes you happier.

And then people who win the lottery have been known to be extremely depressed, sometimes trigger warning, suicidal. And that reminds me kind of about friends where it's like my friends more problems 100% this study says three to five sweet spot close friendships is the sweet spot what do you think how many close friendships would you say you have under well it's hard to define close friendship I subscribe to this story for sure. I do too. I've always been someone who's generally kept my circle relatively small and I've always valued close friendships and I haven't valued like acquaintances all that much. Yeah.

Like you're not walking around with like a squad. Like I don't go out of my way to like make people I know. Feel comfortable. People like Hannah. Like I haven't comfortable people like Hannah like I haven't really like we're not friends so like I'll have you on my podcast

every two years and I'll have resting disgust face and I'll forget that we ever met but like I'm not gonna like crack a smile for you

that's why I like you're like a cat like you have to earn you have to earn his love and I'm obsessed with that I am like a cat and I hate that about myself but it's so true but it's like even when you earn it it's like still some days it will be like and I'm obsessed with that I am like a cat and I hate that about myself

but it's so true but it's like even when you earn it it's like still some days it will be like yeah I'm not hanging out with you if you try to pet Nick he'll hiss at you but like one day you'll be spacing out and he'll like rub on your knee and you're like oh okay and then you had a pet he's like absolutely not um you thought that is scary accurate that's that's why i'm a cat person um fun fact i have always been like i love one friend who i'm like we're obsessed with each other probably unhealthily but it's almost like like they're my girlfriend like i have my boyfriend but i also have a girlfriend where like i tell them everything they get opinions on everything they know all my UTIs all my bad like text messages all my health scares emotional breakdowns because I can't be that forthcoming

with five people I also cannot be like as charming and funny with five people in a day I only have so much to give you know yeah 100% also like when you have friends there's always this like the expectation of well I would do this for you why aren't you doing this for me and depending on how many friends you have you know if you're like if someone who's like i have so many friends and like you know we always know people who are like she's my best friend he's my best friend how many best friends do you have you know and it turns out they only have like a handful of acquaintances. And that's lonely as fuck. It is. But like then you start being disappointed because – and I empathize sometimes with this person and by this person I mean just I'm generalizing because they really probably are a good friend.

They really want friends and they're so willing to give themselves to people. to people, but like dating, you know, it's that person who's like chasing love and going, they don't have enough expectations of the people who are their friends with. So like, yeah, have that one good friend who treats you right, who goes out of your way. Who likes you. Who likes you.

Not just like someone who like gives you access to a certain thing and you think they're cool and you think they're cool to like be in their same circle, but they're like not your friend and they don't really care about you. Because when you feel that rejection, it's an empty feeling.

It really depletes you. And when you realize that you've been calling this group of people your friends, but like they're not really friends with you, but you've never really figured out why you want to be their friend or what they bring to the table for you. And I think people do way too much of that. I think you could also have the same perspective with networking. People ask advice about networking all the time and I always say instead of like having a hundred people's contacts because you're

just like hey hey hey hey stop and see who you're not forcing it with and who you like authentically connect with like for example instead of going on like well I do go on a lot of podcasts like like Alex Cooper and I became really good friends and it wasn't like a forced thing it just happened naturally and she's been like a huge part of my career and and i've definitely maybe i was there for her maybe i don't know maybe i helped her in some way and we and that's better than me knowing 500 people a little bit i bet you have helped alex because i'm sure we're very similar in a lot of ways yeah but also like and i'm sure someone like alex um probably it's harder for her to trust certain people. You know, she's at a certain success level where like it's like sometimes it's hard to make friends that you trust. I don't trust easily, especially making adult friends or making friends after you have some level of success is a challenge. So I'm sure because your friendship started after she had her success, I'm sure there's a lot of, I think you, I'm sure you have helped her a lot

in some ways of just like knowing that there's a level of trust there. I do think your friends are mirrors for you. And she knows, like, I see her as this like former athlete, like myself, who's like super hardworking and smart. that's always what how i've seen her and i think people see her not in that light a lot of the time and i know she sees me she saw me for my comedic talent not to be like oh do you want to be messy on reality tv and that's why like i loved being around her and i like surrounded myself with funny smart powerful women who aren't intimidated by me. Well, this researcher, Jeffrey Hall, said it takes 200 hours approximately to get that level of intimacy with people.

200 hours. Approximately. 200 hours. And I imagine that must be somewhat similar to romantic relationships. I do think that's so interesting. Like if that number is the same. 200 hours.

What's 200 divided by eight? 25. So if you spent eight straight hours with someone, it would take you 25 days. And that's eight straight hours. And that's of like having real conversations. And think of all the dates people go on. Yeah.

Where it's just like, I'm in love. Or like, I feel like I've known them forever and they've been on four two-hour dates. go on yeah where it's just like i'm in love or like i feel like i've known them forever and they've been on four two-hour days i do believe that gut instinct in the beginning though like you know when you meet a friend and immediately you feel good you just don't know their inner trauma yet but also i'm that friend that like third day i'm with you if i like you i'm like okay so this happened to me when i was six. Totally. So with certain people, I think you can trauma bond fast. I think you can bond.

But I think this is a saying, it still takes those 200 hours to really build that connection and trust. Consistency. Because, yeah, you can trust our guts and, yeah, you can feel comfortable. But we've all been burned. True. trust our guts and yeah you can feel comfortable but we've we've all been burned true by realizing someone's like yeah yeah you're not who i thought you were and i didn't know you forever and wow i regret that i feel like your brand for so long was like you're single and you're trying to find that person and sorry now i'm interviewing nick and you've found a person right

now how do you feel like it's affected your brand i don't know i don't know because it's ruined my brand it's ruined it it has you being married i just for so long was like single fun like men are trash vibes and now i'm evolving i think it's all I'm sure it's ultimately helped my brand, I guess. I mean, because I primarily, like you, I have more women than men listening to the show or my audience. Yeah. And I don't know if like the single, I was, like, I've talked about this before. Like, I dated plenty when I was single. And I had some short term and I had some short term.

I had some short term relationships, but I never really talked about them. Like I wouldn't go to events with people because I always felt like I was given this choice. Like I can either look like a man whore or I can look like a lonely loser. And I just opted for lonely loser. The truth is I wasn't either. Right. I just was single for a long period of time. And I would date some people here and there. And, you know, just they weren't my person.

So you'd move on. But over five or six years, if you're going to all these like events with someone like a different person, it just looks like, you know, you hear these slivers. Oh, the people they dated. Well, over the course of like five or six years. Yeah. Like it's not that long and then your name is connected with all these people that you didn't even know that well but i opted for lonely loser so i feel like honestly relatable finally having a girlfriend

and it being natalie definitely has helped in terms of like because there's a lot of like oh finally he's found someone i'm like i really was doing fine yeah but you also give like new probably angles of advice too now that you're in a relationship which is cool and people can be like oh now we know like it wasn't him like it was just he hadn't met the right person yeah you know i can be like yeah i was patient like so you guys can be patient um but uh yeah i think it's ultimately probably helped but And I still advocate for being single. Do you know what we have in common? We both start our relationships with a DM slide.

Who slid into whose DM? He slid into mine. So we've both been slid. We slided. And I'm open to it. Yeah. And he was very direct with mine. What did he say? He was just like, hey, are you in Long Island? And I said, yes. And he was very direct with mine. What did he say?

He was just like, hey, are you in Long Island? And I said, yes. And he said, do you want to get coffee on Friday? And I said, yes, here's my number. Love it. And the Friday makes all the difference. Like presenting a concrete time for planning. Ooh.

Dots. Dots. You know once I'm just like, give me the number. I'm like, yes, figure it out, Zaddy. I love that. And me the number I'm like yes figure it out zaddy I love that and then the rest is history how much did you guys flirt before someone was kind of forward well she lived in Georgia and I lived in LA so we flirted pretty heavily for the first two weeks before we met yeah like heavily heavy petting in the flirting department oh i've i also remembered something i wanted to say about in terms like you hitting up a girl

in georgia some would be like she hit up me she hit up you some would be like okay is is he emotionally unavailable like i was emotionally unavailable that's why i didn't like when guys were that vulnerable with me because i didn't want to i think i wasn't available for them i think i have been i think we if you're single for a long enough period of time i think there's definitely periods where you're emotionally unavailable i don't think it's like i think for most people i don't think it's like for some people sure there might be like yeah for two years i would just like was emotionally unavailable or i'm an emotionally unavailable person.

I need to get therapy. Yeah. I think for more people, it's just like, it might be, I don't know. I went on, like I was, I really went for it on the dating apps for like six weeks and I didn't have any good dates and I, you know, and now I feel fatigued. So now I'm a little shut down or maybe not feeling your best self, whatever it is, maybe from a fitness standpoint, maybe from like your just work hasn't been going well. So you've lost a little confidence. Like there's multiple reasons why people might feel a little like unavailable.

When I first moved to L.A., the first year and a half, I was like I went from having this very successful corporate job, having a condo in Chicago, like my career was like lined up in front of me. And I had like, I was on a fast track and a very like up and come, like not even up and coming, a very successful tech company. And then like, fast forward, I was like sleeping on an air mattress and my brother and my buddy's spare room who I barely, and he's in he's and i and like this is a friend who's now one of my best friends at the time barely fucking knew him i was really making i was taking some big risks that's exciting and i was like an improv class and i i like but so it was this like i'm going on dates being like you know not totally confident

about what my life's gonna look like in three years. So like that could have, you know, that plays a role. So with people, I think, you know, whether you feel like emotionally available, it can really depend on just, it could be week to week and day to day. So I think we kind of just need to take it easy on ourselves sometimes. And it's okay to say like, I'm not, I'm not available, but it's not like everyone's just like shut down. I noticed that I would go after mostly unavailable guys like that or guys. I didn't like respect emotionally. Cause I'd be like,

Oh, if he rejects me or if it doesn't work out, he's a stupid model. Like I would, I, or guys that I just, but it was, it was fun for me cause I was attracted to them.

And then I realized, Oh no, you're the one. I don't like you, but like you're fired. Yeah. You can't fire me, I quit. Yeah, exactly.

Or you'd feel like you're in control of it because you are not going to fall for them, which is, I mean, messy waters. But it sounds like both your person and my person had the moment where they were vulnerable. And then I was like, oh, I'm finding my emotional availability now. And it does take two to tango. Yeah, I feel like especially if you

are going from being emotionally unavailable you need to get coaxed out slowly no like des yelled at me he was just like i like you so what is going on and i was like what does that mean oh god i mean i guess that is what happened with nellie and i it took nine months for her to crack but crack you she did crack crack me sounds you, she did. Crack me. Sounds sexual. Yeah, it really does. Oh, she cracked. My spine is aligned. Wait, this is a random tidbit,

but I was at the Las Vegas airport. They have a chiropractor in the airport. Honestly, they're out of control over there. Yeah, they have one in the Minneapolis airport. Yeah, because people are sitting over the machines all day, hunched over. They need to get realigned. before covid you would do that no well i i wouldn't not do it but so you would do it well if this tells you anything i used to live in venice and i used to go to the whole foods and as a single guy you you go to whole foods i like i'm a single like a single serving

guy right you don't go and and buy a week's worth of groceries you're just like I'm going to go get dinner tonight so you go to the grocery store yeah whatever you buy and there was the chair massage lady Diane and one day I was like this looks fucking good

take all my money Diane I spent $2500 one year on Diane oh my god Diane is putting her kids through college. Because I would go to the grocery store like four or five times a week. And like it became a thing. And I'd get a 30-minute massage every time. I don't give a fuck.

Oh my God. I go to, there's this place, there's a massage college close to my house in East Hollywood where it's $20 an hour. And it is the sketchiest situation in the world. But $20 an hour is $20 an hour. Yeah. And it's a dice roll because it's students massaging you. So sometimes they're really good.

Sometimes they're like, they do weird stuff. Like I just want human touch at this point. One time a lady did come up to me and yell at me for, um, she didn't like me on The Bachelor. Oh. And my massage. While you're getting massaged? Yeah. And, uh, the massage therapist was like, what was that?

I'm like, I don't know. She's like, must be. I just played dumb. Like, wow. Whenever you're not in the mood to explain yourself, even if someone's happy, like, hey, I'm from Summer House. And someone's like, what was that? I'd be like, drinking is a problem in this state.

I truly don't know. So sad. Alcoholism. Boozy brunches are an issue. Speaking of friendships, do we want to talk about third wheeling? Let's get into it. Okay. So this is a very personal topic for me.

I pride myself on being a great third wheel. I do too. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, you're good. Because my sister started dating her fiance when I was 12. So it's been like 12 years of me third

wheeling. And I was told by her fiance that it would actually be weird if I had a boyfriend, because then he would be like a fourth wheel and he wasn't sure how that was going to work. So I've continued this and now I am the third wheel of a married couple out here in LA and the three of us just hanging out constantly. So I did a little, did you put out like a, like a, like a Craigslist advertisement? I did not.

It's like a unicorn for hire. Just in a platonic way. A third wheel. Ease the tension of your conversation by me sitting there. Couples who don't really like each other all that well and need someone to break the ice. Bridge the gap. It's something I talk about in the car ride home. So I was

thinking that part of this and part of this uptick of maybe third wheeling has to do with people being single more. I found a survey from 2019 which revealed that 51% of adults between the ages of 18 and 34 do not have a steady romantic partner. And that was on the uptick. So I'm

assuming it's even more now. And then I read something that actually being a third wheel or having additional people to your marriage or your serious relationship is actually beneficial. Beneficial for who? The married couple or the third wheel? The married couple. Because I think it's great all around. So in 2017, a paper was published in the social, psychological, and personality science,

and researchers found that, quote, spouses who reported being more satisfied with the availability of friends and family whom they know they could connect with during times of marital conflict experience conflict as less psychologically stressful. We found that having a satisfying social network buffers spouses from the harmful psychological effects of everyday marital conflicts maintaining a few good friends is important to weathering the storms of your marriage so talk shit to your friend is what she's saying basically also sometimes you just need to let things out because you can also having friends lets you to like talk shit about your friends

instead of your partner too yeah you and your husband or wife can like talk shit about the third wheel. Yes. And feel better about yourself. You've gone over like, oh, she keeps asking me about that. See that movie. What a stupid movie. I also think that I've called friends before and been like, I'm upset. Is this normal?

And they'll be like, yeah, my dude does this all the time. And like they immediately change your perspective on shit. Because if you feel trapped in your own head then bad things happen also you don't ever feel like you're in this routine where you're just with a sibling yeah you know when you're just hanging out and it becomes platonic when there's a third person there you're like you feel like you're dating almost you know you're with friends you're with we're romantic i don't know i also think it'd be incredibly positive for the third wheel especially if the third wheel has a good outlook on it because like a an engagement ring on a man i think a a positive third wheel not the third wheel like dragging their feet always be like i don't have anybody yeah and like looking around

the bar but like someone who's just like having fun with the couple and enjoying themselves. And if you have a good positive attitude, then they're going to want to, like your married friends obviously want to hook you up, which becomes annoying. But I think it reads attractive if you are a confident third wheel. Ooh, yeah.

Well, what is your take on physical affection of the couple when you are hanging out with like a third wheel like do you oh pda yeah honestly turns me on i'm just kidding pro i i feel like you don't want appropriate amount is fine yeah like you don't want to feel like they can't be affectionate in front of you but also like if you're mid-sentence and they start fingering each other it's like okay let's you can wait till i leave i also think though that having a third wheel can help you i don't know you understand yourself more based on seeing their relationship too a little bit and what you like what you don't like and also there's clear boundaries you know when there's

three friends sometimes it gets messy like who likes who more who's hanging out with who or with the with the third wheel it's like you guys are fucking together i'm the third one and you kind of feel special. I feel like... A guest star. I feel like it happens more with women's friendships. Oh my God.

I feel like three girls in a friendship is disastrous. Because in my... And I... This is an outside observer because so tell me if I'm wrong,

but I feel like a lot of women I know will always have one real close friend at any given point in time. And they might have other friends, but there's always that close friend where guys in my experience have a lot of twos and threes and groups of fours and they seem to be able to maintain that rather and like again when I know women I know or have known just it's always been like there can only be one yeah and

and when one falls off you it's like yeah that there's there's not enough i'm gonna stereotype three can be messy and i don't know if that's true or maybe i agree with you i could be wrong but i'm gonna stereotype i feel like women sometimes have really deep emotional intimate relationships with other women where men like will hang out for eight hours and you won't know anything about the dude and like that's just like like some traditional friendships having they're like i broke up and you're like what like dudes sometimes don't like whatever i hate her it's fine it's cool they're not as like emotionally vulnerable i feel like with their buddies where girls are and with girls it's like i can't keep up it's like me having three boyfriends i wouldn't be

able to emotionally keep up with it. That seems like a possible explanation. Well, I feel like I have different friends who unpack things very differently. Like I have the one friend who's like talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And then another friend who's like let's talk about it. Let's make some snarky comments and let's move on to the happy stuff. Or one friend who will like always take my side when I need her to. Yeah, and then the other friend who's like accountability.

And you're like I hate you. How dare you. Or the other friend who's just like accountability, and you're like, I hate you. How dare you? Or the other friend who's just like, this is the universe telling you where you have to be, and I'm like, That's me. I'm the Debbie Donner. I'm like, well, it's your fault. No, that's my husband will be like, yeah, it's called

You Got Fucked. Move on. And I'm like, that's not what the world's meant to be. But do you agree? You're mistaking me for Jenny. I'm sorry. Jenny will tell you that it's not what the world's meant to be. But do you agree? You're mistaking me for Jenny. I'm sorry. Jenny will tell you that it's not your fault. The universe did this to you on purpose to learn a lesson. But there's the Mindy Kaling quote, like, best friend is a tier, not a title.

And I really agree with that. What does that mean? Like, that, like, best friend is, like, it's a certain tier of friendship that at any given time I think you can can have like two to four people at that like top level. And there might be like kind of like one who's slightly edges it out. I definitely don't trust the person who's like, yeah, they're my best friend. And then a week later, like,

oh yeah, you know, Eric, they're my best friend. It's like, okay. Also, I've had friends that I fully thought I was their best friend and they'll

post on Instagram, like with my bestie. I'm like, I don't even know who that bitch is. And the next thing you know, I'm getting jelly that I fully thought I was their best friend and they'll post on Instagram like with my bestie. I'm like, I don't even know who that bitch is. And the next thing you know, I'm getting jelly. But then I realized, yeah, some people love that best friend title when like I also you do you ever think about when you say I love you in a friendship? Like, I don't know about dudes, but there's a moment in girls friendship where you'd be like on the phone. Then you're like, love you.

Bye. Like you drop the L-bomb in friendships as well and it's vulnerable and it's beautiful it is gorgeous and then it never leaves I've done that with guy friends were you the first to say it I probably am

love you bro yeah love you man yeah I'm fine with the L-word how long does it take for you to drop the L-bomb with your man friends

I don't I don't know not too long how long until you propose to your man friends? I don't know. Not too long. How long until you propose to your man friends? Yeah, I like a little man love. Well, I feel like you like deep conversations and you can't end a deep conversation

with like, okay, see you later. Yeah, I'm definitely an outlier. I don't think I'm like most. I have a lot of like atypical male qualities. Yeah. I also have some. No, I have some typical male qualities.

And then I have some like. Yeah, I think more men should say they love their friends. I think everyone should say they love their friends more often. Yeah. My friends have always been a big part of my life. You get it. You have friends. What makes you a great third wheel, Ellie?

Like I think just running with it if they're not pointing it out too much or if you do like doing it briefly and jokingly because it's like yeah if they kiss especially like i had to learn that as like growing up with my sister like i can't be in the back seat being like oh ew, that's so gross. They're holding hands in the console. I was a third wheel once and caused a divorce. Okay, messy Nick. Okay, just dropping that on us Monday morning. What happened?

I was out to dinner with one of my buddies and his wife and it was a friend who, it was right after my first season well this is an interesting night because it was the same night that um the duchess from housewives and she was a certain friend and i was like coming off my season of uh on andy season and like she called me over her table and sat on her lap and no and i was they were all very nice and they are like you should come to this other place with us and and i went and then like her all her friends were being very nice i think diane luann luann luann and then they're like you should take luann out and i'm like i'm

going to stout and stouts like it's a bar and i like, I don't think you want me to take you to Stout. You should be like, it's so shabby chic, hole in the wall. It's just like ironic, you know? I have a selfie somewhere of me and her. But before she came up, my buddy and his wife at the time, we were out to dinner and they are happily divorced. They consciously uncoupled my one buddy they were kind of they wouldn't go out a lot and and i always wanted him to like go out more and so

i was kind of being like yeah like you should let him go out more and and they just kept talking and the more they talked they were just kind of admitting that they like they would get like anxious and and and they would admit to like making the other person like like well i don't feel good so i don't want him to do this and they would both say that like they were just kind of talking owning up to these toxic traits and i've been like guys can i be honest like you kind of sound like heroin addicts to me where a couple's like owning that you like do drugs and you don't want your partner to get clean because like then you have to get clean and they were like yeah that kind of sounds like us and like literally like that night they went home and started talking about getting divorced

oh you went ask nick on their ass you asked nick them so i didn't mean to i was just like guys sounds fucked up but i yeah he's just blunt he's honest um i wasn't mean to. I was just like, guys, sounds fucked up. He's just blunt. He's honest. I wasn't trying to. On the topic of advice, we do have our texting office hours caller here. Are you familiar? Yes. Okay. Let's do it. How's it going? Hey, I'm Lily. I'm 24. Hi, Lily. How can we help? Yeah. So I'm calling in because I've been talking to a guy for a while and then it ended and I'm trying to decide if I should reach back out to kind of clarify that the door would be open for me in the future or if I should just kind of leave things where they're at and then just see if maybe down the line he reaches so you're

not even sure if you should text right yeah and then if you do if we do text then we need to come up with a text exactly why do you want to reach back why in your gut are you going back to him i feel like because things sort of ended in my perspective more so because of timing rather than compatibility. Why did it? Who ended it? He did. Okay. Why do you think it was timing?

So he's at a place in his life right now that he's very busy with studying for like professional exams for work on top of his normal like day job and I met him at a time where I was really busy so I think it was just we were both really busy and it seems like he wasn't in a position to prioritize a relationship right now. How many times did you hang out with him? Twice, but I can give a summary if that helps as kind of the whole situation. We might backtrack, but he writes. Do you mind me reading it? Go for it.

Lily, I'm so sorry to do this while you are on your trip. You were on a trip? I was on a trip, yeah. She's living her life. Lily, I'm so sorry to do this while you're on a trip, but I on a trip, yeah. She's living her life. Lily, I'm so sorry to do this while you're on a trip, but I need to get this off my mind. Over the past week or so, I have done some reflection on what I want now.

My interest over the last week isn't what it was a couple weeks ago. I have too much going on right now, and I have realized that I need to focus on my exam and moving in with my new roommate. I love Nick Snark. I love Nick Snark. I love Nick Snark. I live for it.

There is nothing you did. I just have had a change of mind. I'm sorry that I will not be going on with this, but I want you to know I enjoy the time that we have talked and got to know each other. I'm sorry if I wasted your time during a time when I was thinking differently for now, but with a lot less going on. I wish you the best of luck with moving forward in your career

and as a great person in general. Wow. Quite a mature message. Very thoughtful. Can I be blunt? Yeah. I think looking back at this, you could see it two ways. One, he's very busy, but he also said his interest has changed.

And the second I see that, you're done. Yeah. You're done. Like you could rose-colored glasses this and be like, oh my God, he has a new roommate. Obviously he doesn't have time to see me with a new roommate. But it seems like he was really nice. He wasn't have time to see me with a new roommate. But it seems like he was really nice. He wasn't feeling it. This is literally like going back in the trash and seeing if it is fresh.

It's not. We're done. I'm over him. I'm over it. Never message him again. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. When breakup texts are like, it's like, you know that game two truths and a lie?

So true. When someone breaks up with you, they're always throwing in a couple lies to soften the truth. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. When I was the roommate, he needs to cultivate that relationship and make sure. Okay, he definitely threw that in. That's a lie. I have no doubt that he's studying and busy,

but the truth is his feelings have changed. That's the truth. Or not that his feelings changed. You did nothing wrong. He was getting to know you. Yeah, but you can do nothing wrong and his feelings can change. Yeah, yeah. i'm just saying if you're gonna fail fail fast this is great you you i just think you need to close the door on

this guy to meet someone new because you're wasting your time with this one and he's actually doing you a favor being like what do you want to force this for six more months and have it end badly in six months and waste six months of your time no and i think it was very nice of him he sent this text and you don't even know the guy that much we're done we're over we're over him we're over let's dissect this because what i here's what i suspect after perusing some of these other attacks is that he was a very charming and very nice uh guy off the bat and said a lot of reassuring, considerate things. And I wouldn't say he did anything wrong.

Is that true? Like just reading that text, that that is the perception you get. But there was no even doubt before this about how interested he was. And it was almost like as if he was he's 23 okay yeah yeah he's a little confused baby never been in a relationship yeah that's that's not necessarily good news yeah no i i agree yeah so i met him um few months ago on Hinge and we had talked for about a month actually before we met in person because he was so busy he had asked if we could talk on the phone and I'm

a lot slower to warm and so um I was like yeah we'll talk on the phone and we ended up talking for like three hours when I was on the phone home from a road trip and it come like the conversation flowed very easily and I was almost surprised by how much like we connected and then after that we were talking pretty consistently like borderline a little too much for my liking like all day and night and then we finally had our first date and it went really well it went until like five in the morning and he was very forward of how interested he was like he was saying like um like I think about you all the time like you check all my boxes and he had mentioned that he was hoping that I was still interested because there were times when I was really busy and like taking a while to respond

and he wasn't sure if that was me not being interested or being busy. And so then we had another great day in person and kept talking all the time. But he started like studying more for his professional exams because he has one coming up and they last through about January. And so I could tell he was getting more stressed out because he would be falling asleep studying and like talking more about like work stress and stress with all of these exams. And then that's what kind of led to this like text from him. But I feel like if I were giving my friends advice, I would have like probably said the same thing based on that last text but on previous relationships I've had and people I've talked to I feel like there's been like things leading up to it where I'm like oh this isn't going well or oh I'm starting to see a lack of interest and there never was that until that text so I feel like that's why it's not as black and white from my perspective but i understand that last text is very formal and like almost feels like it was written by

someone else yeah i'm like did hr send that yeah i actually think as far as breakup text goes pretty solid yeah they're not easy to do yeah right you know you're going to disappoint someone he was pretty honest he threw in like some unnecessary facts about his relationship with his roommate i have to work on my new relationship with my roommate but ultimately it was trying to be pretty clear that like my feelings have changed which is also not easy to say listen i i really i get where your head's at and that's the hard part about like trying to give yourself advice that you would otherwise give your friends because you're emotionally invested i don't think that's ultimately has changed mine and hannah's opinion i do think we're like the jury and like honestly you go fuck ourselves we're just two podcast people who like have strong

opinions have strong opinions but i have a scientific explanation because this is a science podcast you guys only hung out twice and i know the feeling um of like having those amazing talks and feel like you're understanding with someone and you're gonna have that again with more people i promise you this was like opening your heart up to it. But if you think about it, you were on a fucking high of adrenaline because he was not available. You were not available. You both were chasing each other like a drug and you got a hit of it when you first hung out and it was amazing. And then you did it again. But it really was just the dopamine hit of this like chase you guys had.

And what you're feeling right now is like both of you yes what you're feeling right now is a post like drug feeling the come down the come down of this high of this intense thing but you guys did not hang out enough for you guys to have like actually a stable normal connection it was more this high of finally meeting um and you did nothing wrong. But he's not your mans. I agree. You're feeling a withdrawal of the highs that this dude was giving you.

But let's be honest, most of it was virtual. And in person, it was like two bachelor dates. And he was great. This is literally like a two bachelor date type scenario. I mean, he's great. I'm reading these texts. He's good. He's good at what he does. It's this May 15th conversation for me that really kind of sums up.

He wrote, you were amazing tonight. Let me know when you get home. You hearted that. And then you wrote. Just got home. Thank you for the loveliest night. It would be like for the people listening. It was thanks.

Thank you. Thanks for the loveliest night. It would be like for the people listening. It was thanks. Thank you. Thanks for the loveliest night, Nicholas Joseph. With a little sparkle. And then he wrote back, you're welcome, Lily James. I will talk to you tomorrow. Good night, smiley face. And you guys are just over the top here. I have two red flags.

Yes. I have two red flags. Everything's getting a heart react in this. Yeah, I have two red flags. You were amazing. Also, if he was a great guy i'd be like this is so nice yeah what do you mean you were amazing i don't know i feel like that is such a fucking line you were amazing notice how he's not saying like we had a great time we together it was like you nailed it like you were also when he when he said you check all the boxes off my list. I fucking hate that.

I hate that so much. I am not a salad at Hill and Hardy. Exactly. I check boxes off my list as if like this is a fucking interview and I'm trying to hit this ideal woman that you have in your head. I fuck. I don't like that. Also, the fact that he's never really had a girlfriend. I think that's that's what's causing the big disconnect for you because like that's you're you're experiencing a disconnect right but i think the disconnect is its origin story is because he doesn't have a lot of experience and i think what you have here is a guy who like who doesn't

know a lot and while we're nitpicking some of the things he says it sounds like maybe he's like a pretty decent guy who's trying to figure out this dating thing and he's trying to say and do the right things and he probably had a really nice time with you and so what did he do he wanted to express that and he thought to himself how would a guy express a really nice time and what he did what the mistake he made is he did it a little too much he was a little over the top he was a little too grandi grandiose at the risk of not sounding like, yeah, it was fun. Yeah, like he didn't mean it in a mean or like a manipulative way.

Yeah, he's not like, you know, he's not love bombing you, anyone listening. But I also, maybe because I'm 30 and I'm exhausted, but what I'm trying to say to you is right now you want some closure.

You want some closure or to be like, are you sure? It's basically what you're doing. You're basically like, are you sure? When you start like me dating when I turned 30, I was like, I deserve a guy who does not prioritize his new roommate over me and will find the time and will not break up with me over being busy. And I think that's what helps you sleep at night.

Because this guy might be great for you. And I'm not saying you didn't have great chemistry for him because you're gonna have great chemistry with so many men in your life you're gonna have so many good dicks in your life but I do have to say you deserve a guy who does not break up with you last second and switch so quickly I don't like that at all and your response was perfect too by the way oh my god what a classy bitch you You wrote, I understand. Thanks for letting me know. I really enjoyed getting to know you too. And I wish you the best of luck with your exams and the move. So like you weren't, you didn't give him any reason

to not reach out if he changed his mind. You weren't rude. You weren't mean. You didn't like, you sounded like someone who's like, eh, thanks for letting me know. You were totally mature about it. You didn't like panic or, you know. You were totally mature about it. You didn't panic. So if this guy changed his mind, he has every reason to reach back out to you.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Okay, that answers my question. Because I'm still dating other people. I'm talking to other people. I'm not stopping my life for this or anything. But I just kept my like thinking back

kind of like wow those were like good dates we had good conversations just wondering if I like maybe seemed too like cold during the last interaction oh no you were beautiful you were understanding you were concise you could have sent a whole long text like, this is crazy. The door is wide open for him. And you've done all you can do. You've been kind, respectful, and great. The first words out of your mouth were, I understand. You empathized with him.

Like, I don't think that's a really small thing that goes a long way. I don't think a lot of people do. Most people would say, I don't understand yeah yeah like okay literally yeah like you're a pisces i'm a scorpio this is supposed to work out what are you talking about you know and you were just like oh i understand and he was probably very nervous about sending this he like thanked you for understanding he then said i i thank you for understanding i really appreciate it like he was worried about what how you would Like he was worried about how you would feel. He was worried about hurting your feelings.

You empathized with him. You've definitely cultivated a safe space for him to reach out if he's interested. When one person bows out after a couple of dates, like that usually just means they aren't that interested. I also would say a simple way moving forward is like when guys tell you something just take it for what it is don't try to read between the lines think of what he's probably wants to say think of what he's struggling with no no over the past few weeks my interest has gone down and that's all you have listen to him yeah him for what he says, and it's not your job to figure him out. Because in an alternate universe, he just ghosts you. So we got to give him some credit for just trying to be honest and upfront.

Yeah. But that's not to be confused with confusion on his part. Yeah. He's not confused. Yeah. And it's not your job to change his mind or force it or find the divine timing when the moon is in you know retrograde you listen to what he say and respect it like you did and you don't have to change anything i would give you an a plus on how you handled it totally

because it was honestly hot like i'm attracted to you your response was perfect you're still dating like there were so many worse ways to respond to this. So any further response, we're going to have to deduct from that A+. Okay. I'm going to keep it at an A+. And when you have that thought loop of missing him, treat it like a drug. You're missing that high, but it's purely a high, I'm telling you, of a chemistry reaction. It's a drug that you're getting off

also you don't even know the more you got to know him how much you would like about him like that's a problem with like someone ending it after the first couple days those are the hardest it's because now they take that opportunity for you to further get to know him and he broke up with he broke up with you he ended it at a time where you were feeling pretty good so it almost like freezes time with the potential with the potential of what you think they could be and you're locked into that potential of what they am and that that's not who yeah you didn't get to date him see all the shitty sides to him you just have this fantasy of what he is in your head exactly so yeah that's i think the hardest part is like i didn't even get to see it crash

and burn yes just have that recognition that uh when you when you are sad or you're missing those first couple dates it's like it's not him you were missing and to hannah's point just keep going out there and you're going to date a couple frogs you'll have more bad dates than good ones but you're you're going to have another nice date you saw the best version of him probably And it goes downhill from there. Facts. I'm going to keep that line in my mind. Hell yeah. It's going to be downhill from that version of him.

All right. Well, thank you so much. Hopefully this was helpful. Yeah, it was really helpful. Thank you both. This has been perfect. Take care. Oh my God, I love giving advice with Nick. Hannah, thanks for coming.

Oh my God, what a joy. This went by so fast. I love talking shit with you. Hannah, thanks for coming. Oh my God, what a joy. This went by so fast. I love talking shit with you guys. What a pleasure. So much fun. Where can my audience find you? Oh my gosh. Well, go to hannahburn.com.

I have dates coming up. I'm going to Madison and Milwaukee. All right, yeah. I'll be in Chicago. When are you going to Milwaukee? I think in October. I should know these things, but it'll be a good time. Have some cheese curds.

How do you spell your last name? B-E-R-N-E-R. And check out my podcast, Burning in Hell, where I talk to people about mental health comedy shit and Giggly Squad with my best friend, Paige DeSorbo. My bestie.

All right. Check it out. It's always a pleasure. And it's also nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, but there's that. I actually love that shit because I'm usually the only one who's like, oh, sorry. You forget people's names and shit.

My facial recognition has gone downhill. That's why Nick likes me because I play hard to get with him. I have no respect for him. That's why he likes me. No, and what it is is you don't require my validation. Oh, God, stop. I do. I tried to make you laugh this whole time.

And I really like that. Are we in love? Yeah, but we can be friends. Busty. I have a small circle. Thanks for listening, guys. Oh my God. Bye.