The Viall Files - E44 Online Outrage with Bitch Bible

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

Today we have Jackie Schimmel of Bitch Bible on to talk about the dangers of other people’s opinions. We clear the air about Nick’s interview on Bitch Bible and Jackie’s fiery response. Then Nick tries to understand what happened on one of his previous dates, they discuss whose responsibility it is to end FWB situations, and they open up about jealousy in relationships. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode! THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: HELLO FRESH: https://www.hellofresh.com/VIALL80 for $80 off NATURAL HABITS: https://nhoils.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is up everybody welcome to another episode of the vile files. Michelle how are you? I'm good how are you Nick? I am great especially after this episode you. I never like it when I have... Beef. Or when I've been told I have beef with someone, I didn't realize I have beef with someone and then I find out someone's mad at me and then I was like, what is going on?

That's what happened with our guest today, everybody. I had the pleasure of going on jackie shimmel's podcast bitch bible i had a ton of fun great podcast i had a ton of fun you guys should check it out we talk a lot about it on this podcast uh but as you guys some some of you know it can be a little snarky and playful right and uh because that's what you thought the vibe was it was called it's called bitch Bible. Anyways, at the time, Jackie had a great time.

Yeah. Some of her audience, uh, didn't feel the same. Right. Which happens. Which happens. And so Jackie and I have a fun,

playful conversation about that as well. We get to know Jackie, very interesting story. And she's just funny. And, and she has great, great takes on life, dating and,

and, and marriage. And we just kind of shoot the shit. But we talk a lot about being influenced by others and things we hear out there. Right. And about what I liked about being defensive about stuff we're insecure about. Yeah. Letting our insecurities get the best of us.

And then, you know, we hear it from other people and it kind of riles us up. Oh, yeah. Anyways, it's a fun conversation. I say we just get right to it. Strap in, everybody. Strap in. It's a lot of fun. Listen, I.

And stick around because it's rough in the beginning alone. Is it? It's just a little bit and then it smooths out. Yeah. Well, when Jackie came up in the elevator, it was the first time I had seen her since the podcast. So first Jackie canceled because I had her her since the podcast so first Jackie cancelled because I had her coming on and then I

reached out and I'm like why'd you cancel and then I started in the elevator I'm like I was like you can't talk about it we're gonna talk about it on the podcast yeah yeah yeah so they saved it she wanted to kind of like soften it off no no no just save it so we kind of start off hot but all in good fun and happy to report

that we're like best friends now oh i uh you know i appreciate you know tension's good sometimes yeah uh and uh what this this this show wouldn't be any fun if it was all smooth sailing smooth sailing anyways i had a ton of fun both on jackie's podcast Bitch Bible and while she was here so I hope hopefully you guys enjoy it as much as I do or did

or do I don't know as always guys thanks for tuning in don't forget to rate us five stars don't forget to email us

questions at asknickatcastme.com for our Monday episode and that's enough plugging our stuff. Anyways, Jackie Schimmel, everybody. Rochelle, I'm going to read you a little story. Oh, I love stories.

Yes. And this story is from Jan F. I purchased this roll-on for my 12-year-old granddaughter who suffers from headaches. She uses it every morning and then again if she feels a headache coming on. She reported to me that her headaches are less frequent

and less severe. I'm going to purchase the diffusers and oils for her room. That's so sweet. Really? Grandma. Don't take our word for it. Like we talked about before, essential oils are a great

non-invasive way to help you with, uh, your, any medicinal needs that you have. Uh, our center blend is great for headaches. It really helps, especially if you get them, if you use it on a frequent basis, as you said, it helps them be less severe or just avoid them from coming on. Uh, it's just a great addition to the things that you might already be doing to help with headaches. And, you know, for me, when I started using essential oils, I was taking a lot of ibuprofen and things like that. And over time, that's not good for your stomach. And so I was able to decrease that, you know, with anxiety, I'd grind my teeth a lot.

And TMJ, we have had a lot of customers say they use our release rolling on their jaw and they're grinding their teeth less it just helps you uh just kind of release less tension um so anyways if you have never tried essential oils uh natural habits specialize in trying to make it easy for you by doing the blends already we are usd organic certified we have the highest quality oils you can find in the market i I truly believe and know that. So find us at nhoils.com. Follow us on Instagram at Natural Habits. Still new customers. I know there's a lot of you out there who haven't tried the Natural Habits. Code natural for 20% off your first order, free shipping. The roll-ons are very convenient. They come in our bundle, our pure essential oils.

You can put it in a diffuser or a warm bath, put it in a spray bottle. All different ways you can use essential oils that help you. So check it out, nhoils.com. Jackie Schimmel. How are you? I'm absolutely wonderful. How are you, Nikki baby? I feel like it took a lot to get us here not really you sent me

a message on instagram i said sure i'll come on after i canceled yeah and had a fake vacation or travel schedule uh i was in paris actually for a week and then i went to vegas so i was 100 in vegas i can show you dated videos if you don't believe that i was in vegas why are you coming at me so hot because i'm just just not true okay well i i didn't read the email rochelle uh said that you canceled and i said oh for today but originally we were supposed to do august 30th which i was in vegas for but and i said pourquoi and she said oh apparently she had a travel emergency and i'm like no no no is that what jack said in the email that i couldn't make it because of a trap well that's on jack she's an assistant she you know she's not gonna say like she's pissed that's why she's not coming and i would like to

clarify well what do you mean she said on her podcast she was pissed well let's clue the audience into what by the way i'm sitting right here so I can speak for myself. So for those of you who were having a bit of fun, but I was, I had the pleasure of going on, on Jackie's podcast, Bitch Bible. Yes. And I had quite an enjoyable time.

Okay. If I'm being totally honest. And at the time i believed you as well did i felt there was a great dynamic we're having fun afterwards i gave you some of my essential oils we took some pictures we like shot the shit as you walked me to the elevator i was like oh what a fun time i'll see you in a few weeks when you come on my podcast after you vetted me at the end of my podcast saying well do you have any good stories to tell yeah like i've been doing that for four and a half years condescending how was it condescending sure fine it's also like really dry and sarcastic you're not condescending

jackie oh no i'm totally condescending i guess it's kind of my point i don't know anyways so sure uh was i of course was i also poking fun at someone i thought i developed a quick rapport with really sure okay um and then so anyways you dropped the episode it was it's funny because at first i started getting a bunch of dms from like i loved you on bitch bible you know like someone pointed out i'm like oh i love that nick's you know giving jackie some shit, because that's kind of your brand of just kind of throwing things out there. And it's called Bitch Bible. I don't know. At the time, I had not had the pleasure of listening to it before I was

on. And on my way in, I told Jackie how I just turned on one of her episodes to do some due diligence. And it's a great podcast. I agree. It certainly has a... Edge. An edge to it. For sure. So here I'm like, you know what? This is gonna be fun.

Here's a person who loves to give it. I presumed someone who loves to give it. I can take it. Fairly good at taking it. This is my point of view. I too. And I learned a lesson. I am fully, fully accountable i as i when

i messaged you i said listen did i not take full ownership of saying maybe i overreacted i let people get in my ear because when we did have our podcast i thought it was fine it was definitely a different tone for me you were a little snide a little arbitrary which i'm sure you have this is not the first time you've heard that of course not right like i'm a little arbitrary which i'm sure you have this is not the first time you've heard that of course not right like i'm a bitch i know i'm a bitch i can be a massive cunt i totally can i say that yeah yeah and i have been called the dick before right okay so i thought it was fine i thought it was good i actually did think we had a great rapport the problem was that a couple days after it came out, people were

messaging me being like, that was so hard to listen to. He was so condescending. He was so rude. I have a history of being a little bit delusional and thinking everybody likes me all the time. So I thought that I severely misread the situation, which triggered me because then I'm like, wait, read the situation which triggered me because then I'm like wait is the joke on me is he trying to make me out to sound like a dumb fuck like he comes into my house that I paid for and takes a shit

on my foyer that's metaphorically speaking I was like whoa and then I kept getting messages and I was getting like really fucking pissed off you hit me on Leo season and I was menstrual leo season august duh oh i'm sorry i don't leo that was like is this like a titanic uh reunion or something i wish but

no it's horoscope shit and then i started getting really worked up because i was like what the fuck how did i misread the situation when you said you got a bunch of emails like 10 no nick i got like probably i could have 250 250 people emailed you about it messages it was on the facebook groups it was on yeah it was all over the fucking place uh yeah interesting i got a lot of messages four did you say two or four or 10? Did you say 10 messages? I don't read them all, but enough to notice. I don't read the emails.

Also, I'm assuming it was a higher percentage on yours because it was your show. For sure. We got a couple. Yeah. I got some where it was just like, I loved it. Then some people were like, I love your podcast, but why were you hard on our girl jackie and i was like what uh huh i just leaned into the whole thing what i have found in this world is people like you know fans are great in the people who listen to the shows their term fans listeners listeners uh and they become almost defensive of their favorite shows and most of the show. Yeah.

I, again, I didn't listen to your other, I didn't listen to the ones with guests. The one I listened to was your solo episode. I have lots of those. They do really well. I don't doubt it. But what I'm saying is I didn't know the, I didn't really hear the tone of,

but yeah, I just, it was like oh here's a person i can have fun with are your other guests uh are not so you just ask the questions and then they answer no i don't think it's that i mean i don't have that many like straight dudes on so maybe it was just a different tempo that people were used to and listen once i got wind and i felt stupid like i wasn't in on the joke or like maybe you were taking jabs at me that i wasn't picking up i got real fucking turbo real fucking quick i don't like just by listening to it and just by reading the emails well then i listened back and i was like oh did he mean it like that then i started hyper analyzing the whole thing and i was like oh did he mean it like that then i started hyper analyzing

the whole thing and i was like what a motherfucker do you i mean so i just immediately backtracked once you messaged me and was like i thought it was i thought we had like a you know rapport going i was like oh yeah nick called me and he was like you need to listen to this because like some people are talking but like i had fun i thought we were bantering back and forth like i'm curious what you think so i know that's what i probably really did i uh i asked her well listen again i i'm aware that i can i'm i'm a very dry person i can yeah and if you don't know me it's people like can take it i get that way um and i you know i don't always read, I guess,

situation. I definitely assume that you like to give it. And so I'm like, here's a fun person to have fun with. I like it when people ask me questions. We had an episode a while back with my friend, Jana Kramer. Okay.

Jana is a lot like me in that sense. Maybe like you and Jana is a, she loves to give it. Maybe like you and where Jana is, she loves to give it, she loves to, if she likes you, she'll tease you. She comes on here like, I'm gonna just really like, and guns a blazing, I was totally fine. I had a ton of fun with her. I thought it was a great episode

and people lost their shit on Jana. To the point where she was just like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, I don't thought it was fine. Like, I'm very comfortable with it. I'm also good with criticism. I think I was actually nicer to you than I was, than I normally am. So maybe that threw people off.

Is that because it was like I was poking, so you were like trying to, I mean, I thought it was all playful and fun I did you know I obviously I apologize to you but I already but I did and I meant it because I totally overreacted and I definitely took the bait

from people that were influencing me and like they got me riled up and that's I mean I don't know if it's valid or not valid but I if i didn't get that in my ear i probably would have not reacted at all we talk a lot of on the show about trusting your gut and do you feel like i thought it'd be interesting for us to maybe talk a little bit about the internet and one's ability just ours, but people in general, about being influenced about other people's opinions.

And how much do we let other people get into our head and create this whole new narrative, sometimes loosely based off of deep-rooted insecurities or just other things that might be on our mind? Sure. Like you talked about earlier, this insecurity of, I know I've read a room wrong before. And so am I doing that again?

I get hyper defensive when I feel like people think I'm stupid. Sure. Stupid or I get I get like dumb or not in on the joke or I'm just like some overprivileged white bitch who just like landed. Like I get very, very defensive because i get sensitive to if i feel like uh uh that maybe not in on the joke or if i'm misreading where i like i want to yeah if i'm if people are talking about me or if i don't want to ever uh think i'm good at something other people think i suck at or something like that right yes um i don't want to ever think I'm good at something other people think I suck at or something like that.

Right. Yes. I don't want to think something cool. Everyone thinks like, do not they? Yeah, I get it. Like me and those,

like me and Jackie are best friends. Everyone's like, dude, no, they, they don't like you. Well, that's why I got,

that's why I was pissed because I was like, I thought we were, I thought it was fine. And then we'd be like, he like so condescending. He was trying to make you sound stupid. He was trying to like trip you up. And I was like, oh, hell no.

I don't want to get in the weeds. But maybe people all go back and listen. Guys, check it out. Bitch Bible. Quick plug. Sorry for talking shit about you the episode following as well. Not cool. Also, like I went back and like kind of funny.

Maybe I'm tone deaf because I don't often listen to every podcast i'm a guest at like sometimes right but for whatever reason i listened to yours and i listened back and i remember i remember thinking again if this is before like all the feedback went nuts i was like that was a lot of fun like i really it was a cool banter. I liked it. I was just like, that was fun. I don't know. And then only for it to be like everyone like... Because you know why I listened to it? Because my first comments I got were people liking it.

Right. And then some of your stans did not appreciate it. But I also don't remember trying to trip you up. I remember asking you questions and disagreeing with you which i am totally fine with i don't i'm not someone that just needs a bobblehead yes person like that is so not my vibe i like opposition i i just got pissed i don't know what to tell you okay menstrual cycles are real everybody i guess i was alone in paris on my menstrual cycle it It was Leo season. This is what happened.

When you yelled at me on your next episode and you said something about, I don't need him to explain toxic masculinity. When did I explain that? Oh, you were tackling gender norms. And I was like, I can be a masculine. And you're like, in what way? Like, you know, I can be like, I don't even, I don't remember. I didn't say anything about gender norms.

Oh, you tried to, you like kind of low key tried to tackle that. Low key. I, you said, the only thing I think you might be talking about is you said I can be masculine. And I said. I have a masculine energy, I said. Yeah. And I said, in what way? And you said, I'm smart.

And I said, smart doesn't equal masculine, which I stand by. No, you're, you. No, you're cutting. You're taking crucial elements of the conversation out. It wasn't like I could be. I'm masculine because I'm smart. I never would say anything of the sort like that. Those are isolated pull quotes. There was conversation in between, but it's fine.

It's on the podcast. Yeah, go listen. You should listen to Sonics. We're really going to. You should go listen. we'll play it back anyways uh i am glad that you're here me too by the way we're good we're kosher i'm fine i'm fine no really why do you think i emailed i was just like i had a good time maybe i'm misreading this if you're not actually on vacation, you should still come. I canceled my trip. So did you get, were you able to get reimbursed?

Get a voucher? No, I'm going to hit you with a Venmo request for my canceled flight. Do you find in the podcast space that people don't like tension or they don't think they like tension? I think people get cringy. Like people don't like listening to what they perceive as tension 100%. Do you think they actually don't like it

or they don't like the feeling? Because I've been told, it's a debate here on the show with some of our producers that I think sometimes tension is a great thing. And while sometimes in the moment, it can be a little awkward, it keeps them invested and keeps them interested and keeps them coming back. I think it depends.

I like easy flowing conversation. If I'm in the car in traffic, I don't need people like where my butthole is clenching. Like I would rather just listen to easy, breezy, fun flow. Gotcha. That's just me. So I did maybe in that sense misread it because I was like, oh, this person's podcast is called Bitch Bible.

Yeah, but you're bitching together. We're holding hands. So we're just shitting on other people? It's called Opinions. Everyone get one. But i got shit for mine no you weren't giving me shit about julianne huff because i was talking shit about julianne huff maybe fucking her brother which is funny and i don't actually mean it and i also acknowledge that she's more talented and prettier than me so it's fine which i didn't say i know i did but i was fine uh anyhow but yes i think it is helpful and maybe

if anything if there's a takeaway and i think it's interesting to dive into is how we let other people get in our heads oh yeah well it's hard not to when you you know do something like this on a public platform and you have kind of these relationships with strangers that feel like they know you because they listen, especially you. I mean, I just do a podcast, but you've obviously been on television. You've looked for love on television. So people get invested. They think they know you. And it's a beautiful thing because there's this loyalty that people have towards you but yeah sometimes it can get in your head and you're like oh shit you know yeah do you think people often i think people do

that even in life if they don't have a podcast imagine all the times you're in a dating situation and you are confused about the guy or girl you're dating and then you go to your friends and tell your version of the story and then they project their bullshit onto you and next thing you know it's like you're right that is fucked up and then you take that energy that you've gotten from all the opinions of your friends yeah and then projected it and then the other person's like women do that a lot you think it's you think more women than men do it 100 it's and I'm allowed to say that because I'm a woman. It's an estrogen thing. You get around a bunch of, first of all, cycles get synced.

Everyone's crying. I mean, you can really get like really riled up with a group of women, especially like if you got a boyfriend that's cheated or wronged you and you go to a brunch with a bunch of bitches and everyone's like, I just can't. You need to stand up for yourself. You can't put up with this shit. I mean, it happens.

It's a beautiful thing, too, because it's supportive. But it happens. It does. I actually had a situation recently where I was talking to someone and I got a text from her. And it was fairly aggressive. And I was surprised. And I couldn't help but wonder like, where- What did you do?

I didn't really do anything. Are you sure? Well, I read, I readjusted plans. So you canceled plans? I didn't cancel. You readjusted. I was like, I don't think you're gonna have fun. Sounds like the email I sent, doesn't it?

I was like, I don't think you're necessarily gonna have fun in this environment but i invited this person for the first time to hang out with me and some friends and i think they were looking forward to that yeah and then that's a step sure i'm i fucked up in that sense and then then i got to that step but but I kind of, I thought of it very casually. Wow. Well, maybe it's not all about you, Nick. I'm just admitting to it. And then I got there and I'm like,

I don't really think they're going to have fun here. And also it was a sporting event. So I'm also was invested in said game. And so selfishly, I was like was like layers a bunch of guys here i really want to watch wait you canceled like minutes before i didn't cancel it was like in the uber no with her jersey a couple hours before i was like i got there and she was gonna swing by oh a swing by cash she was like i'll swing by you know but i'm only free for a couple

you know what the translation is for a casual swing by with the friends she like went to the blow-dry bar she got her makeup done she's like trying to be cool in like a t-shirt and jeans yeah i know but it's like a lot of weight i'm realizing this now um but i uh swing by and uh and i uh i got there and i was kind of feeling this and i'll admit that i was probably projecting i was kind of making excuses like i don't think you're gonna have fun but troy quite honestly there's a lot of but like i feel like i'm gonna be i'm not gonna have fun right in this game you know like i don't want to make sure that you're okay while watching the game you didn't want to babysit sure yep and fine so i was like hey just a heads up it'sy here, you know, and I'm afraid you're not going to have fun. And she's like, well, it's only a couple hours.

And I'm like, well, what are you doing tomorrow or Saturday? I'm like, I'm available all weekend. And then she was like, whatever. And I'm like, well, then come tonight. And she's like, whatever. I just made plans with my friends. And then an hour later, it was like, I don't ever want to see you again. I was like, whoa.

And, you know, hanging out with friends. And then an hour later, it was like, I don't ever want to see you again. I was like, whoa. And, you know, hanging out with friends. She's, and then I'm trying to, at first I got the text. I was like, what, what is going on? Yeah. Completely at the time, I was just like, did some, did I, did I do, like, I wasn't even thinking. I mean, I reassessed and kind of now it's kind of making sense. I asked some of my women friends friends like what what's going on here

yeah a meeting of the friends is like a milestone like that's like you're ready to integrate it means more than just like a casual sporting of you know what i mean totally i get it and even when i mentioned it to her she made like she was like oh like and so i kind of definitely fucked up you could have just been like come by but like it is a sausage fest i apologize in advance i'm like full tunnel vision on this game i want to give you my undivided attention no totally and that's why from my point of view i was like what i don't huh yeah and it it was just it her reaction seems so like like i get the frustration disproportionate but just like yeah maybe she was

mid-menstrual cycle you should ask or maybe she's already like on the fence like sure i mean again there's a lot of variables but again to like when hearing you say women do that or you know guys or girls that like she definitely was went to go hang out with a friend a friend and vented to them yes and then because there was it wasn't an immediate response it wasn't like xyz and then it was like fine i don't want it it was like a good two hours later out of nowhere by the way a couple pinot grigios and like a dinner some app and our friend like hating on like fuck him you don't deserve this and if they want to see you they will call you they will put their friends in sporting.

Like I know exactly the conversation that takes place. And in fairness, is you saying women do that? Guys will do that too, maybe differently in terms of, I think women would be surprised how much guys will ruminate and question what women are doing and what does she mean when she's doing this. They might not necessarily always do it with their buddies. They might have like a woman friend or a female friend they run things by.

For sure. But we're constantly trying to figure you all out as well. It's just like less of a group activity. I feel like it's less vocal. Like guys aren't going to go to a sports bar and have some beers not to like, you know, whatever. Sure. But like, well well we just had on

a previous up a recent episode previous episode we had a girl come in who would call in who talked about her sex life with her or her husband and she would really they weren't like actively uh having sex penetrating no there's not having a lot of sex and he came home like hey all my other married friends are fucking i think we should have more sex and the point is is like guys are talking to other guys too about relationships and here he's like thinking that we should have more sex because these other guys are having more sex and so i think we should have more sex yeah which there was more layers of that call but right point is guys are guys are doing it too. And we often seem to let other people's influence our behavior. Especially with sex, though.

That's such a different animal than feelings. Do you know what I mean? Sure. But don't you think sex creates a lot of feelings? Primarily for women, I think. Yeah. People get all hopped up when you say things like, men feelings what's like i i understand it's a generalization i understand but it's fair women and men they're not they there's a lot of different shit going in my experience yes i i can

get a man can get emotional i've gotten emotional about sex but i find that i also more easily can just treat sex as just sexed and some of the women i've experienced sex with there seems to be a more of a milestone like going to meet the friends yeah milestone and i and a guy seemed to be okay with just sex if if a guy likes a girl and she's like well you know like we're just fuck buddies he can probably if he likes the sex keep on slinging it so to speak and i think slinging dick i find that uh women have a harder like they'll also try to be just as chill and cool and we shouldn't do that we should just like lean into the truth. You know what I mean?

That kills me. When you see a woman that blatantly wants to be in a relationship with someone and is like, no, it's cool. Like, yeah, totally. And you're like, you're dying inside. Just say it. It's fine.

But just be like, dude, I don't want to just have sex with you. I want to either have a boyfriend. Like I like you. We can't keep doing this. That doesn't make you crazy or irrational. either have a boyfriend. Like, I like you. We can't keep doing this. Like, that doesn't make you crazy or irrational. I have a question for you as a woman.

Yes. If you are in a friends with benefits situation. Yeah. In this situation, the girl wants to be in the relationship and the guy is like, listen, he's totally upfront. Sure. For whatever reason, I don't want to be in a relationship, but I really enjoy having sex with you. I love having sex with you.

Can we please keep having sex? But I also, and he's super upfront. He's not confusing her with like inviting her to weddings and saying, I love you, but I don't want to be with you. It's straight up a sexual relationship. Yeah. And if the guy in that scenario senses, and even at some point she even puts it out there

that I would date you or I like you, is it on the guy to stop hanging out with her? Or is it totally, you know what I'm saying? If he senses that I know she likes me, but I've been totally honest, non-confusing, at what point is it not him to say, I needed to stop this because it's going to get messy, and she, or is it on her?

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion. I actually think it's on her because both people need to be up front in this situation, and you should have enough pride and self-worth to be like, I don't just want to be a hole for this guy. If I like you, I have feelings. I'm not okay with what you're bringing to the table. This is not an equal exchange here. I want something more.

You're not willing to give it to me. So therefore, I'm not willing to give you my orifice. Yeah. That's what I think. What do you think rochelle um i mean yeah i do think it should be the woman i think so often we don't though and i wonder like for me in the past i'm thinking like maybe it was like a self-esteem thing like well this is all he's willing to give me this is all i really deserve you know to right and that's and that's what I'm saying. And that's, I mean, that's a reality, but that's like

not what should be. I agree with the, like in a perfect world, sure she should. But again, to the, like all these other variables, maybe there's a power dynamic,

you know, in every relationship there's a power dynamic. And I'm just wondering, not that he is wrong for keeping hanging out with with her but like the flip side of that is is it the like that's in the situation it's just the guy who has the seemingly power is it condescending to be like well i don't well i think you like me too much so we should stop having sex i would be so fucking mad if somebody said that to me like clearly you want more and i'm

just not ready to give you that so like i don't think we should see in each other anymore i'm like what if meanwhile you're actually losing your shit oh yeah like where do you like you know what i'm saying i would be so mad but i would also be somebody that like if he wasn't willing like if he's like i'm sorry i just like don't want this to be a relationship i just you know friends with benefits i'd be like fuck you see a lot I just like don't want this to be a relationship. I just, you know, friends with benefits. I'd be like, fuck you. See, a lot of women aren't like that. But that's a great attitude. Yes, I agree with Rochelle.

But I would find a lot of people and women. I mean, guys will do. I've had guys, like growing up, I had been in a situation once. I had a buddy who for two years chased this girl. She always had a boyfriend or some other guy see like i like that though so i'm such a hypocrite because i'm like you go girl do it that's great you know like fine but i'm just saying he was fucked up about it for two years constantly just being available and like and so it although i'm saying it does happen on the other side and when that does happen uh i was the queen of that for years i like would i'd be like have three exclusive

relationships i dated like two people at it was the it was awesome it was like six months but it wasn't exclusive in this situation i'm thinking one particular i told them it was two for inclusive but it wasn't no i actually two of my friends. It was like, no, they would never commit. The girl would never commit to them. They would always come back to them. She would always be dating some other guy who like she would talk shit about and she sucked. And when there was a break in that relationship,

they would like start hanging out again. It's called a back burner boyfriend. Totally. So it happens on both sides, right? And so in that situation, in this situation, the girls were obviously taking advantage of him and guys often will not be conscious about it.

But we're talking about a situation where the guy's like, hey, I care about this person. I just don't, for whatever reason, like it's romantically, I'm not going to work. And you can tell she likes them that she likes you and you feel sometimes where i i know she's trying to get me to date her and i know

she's trying to play it cool but i don't want to call her out on that because that's just gonna piss her off oh yeah but also like you know what i'm saying like i there i've been in situations where i feel like a dick because i feel like I have the power right now. I'm not going to bring it up. But she's kind of said it multiple times. You know, like there'll be, you know. I think it's case by case. It's tough.

Like if someone's fragile and you know the self-esteem is just plummeting and they're trying to be cool, then maybe you just cut it off. Say, I don't think we should do this anymore. I don't think it's good for me. I don't think it's good for you. I don't think it's good for you. I respect you too much. Well, if a guy said, I respect you too much, we shouldn't sleep together, how would you respond to that?

It just doesn't make sense. I mean, I don't know. I think I would fucking freak out. I mean, in a perfect world, I'd be like, I don't even care. I have like six other boyfriends and like crying on the inside. I mean, that could be taken as really condescending. Could it not?

I respect you so much. So I don't want to give you my dick. You just stay up at night being like, what does it mean? And you talk to everybody because it doesn't mean anything. It's bullshit. That's what I'm saying. And then we get to the, then we go to our friends and then we ask them, what does it mean?

Meanwhile, everyone's like, here's what happened to me. and this is why i think it's what's happening to you and you should the worst thing you can do by the way and then all of a sudden you get a text that says i never want to speak to you again is that literally what it said not no but it was about to say how did that make you feel i really uncomfortable it was aggressive in the sense of like it was it made me think am i is there something else going on i'm completely unaware of yeah like is did someone tell her some rumor about me that's completely false of like where is this coming from because in the moment i'm thinking i was like i really want to hang out with you i just want to see you like i'll come by tonight i'm just just, I really, honestly, yes,

I was thinking about my needs too and wanting to enjoy the game, but I really didn't think it would be that much fun for her. Can you just say, full disclosure, I was being an asshole. I just wanted to watch the fucking game and like a loser with my guy friends, I really want to see you.

I'm good. At the point, though,'m wondering is it just is it best that we don't like is it am i just keeping in a in a a winless situation going well that's only a question you could answer totally because i have no problem in this situation being like you know what i was deaf i read I read this wrong. I'm wrong. I was being a little selfish and I'm sorry. And if that's where this was coming from, I'm sorry. I have no problem.

I'm not like justifying. I totally can get her point of view. One hundred percent. Sure. I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. Was it about the game or was it about that next step of her meeting your friends, though? Again, I haven't talked to her about it. No, but for you. Did you freak out about oh no i really and honestly these weren't

all like like they weren't oh they might like yeah they weren't my like closest friend this wasn't like it wasn't a big moment for me right i was really like i kind of like i want to see this is happening so what like these were not people i gave any shits about their opinion about this is not like a hey guys need to meet this person I hope hope you like them like yeah that was need the green light this was these were and she doesn't know that at all right but it wasn't for me I it was really about the game I was like I am a diehard sports fan and when I'm in the certain games like I'm not the best conversation I'm gonna go out in a limb and say it wasn't your first strike i bet it was three i could have second that and i bet this she's been dicked around a lot and

she releases short by me or in general in general no this person hasn't been dicked around that much oh okay okay uh are you sure are you sure i'm not a not 100%, but I just don't, this person is not a, they're, yeah, they're not a, I wouldn't get that. I don't get that vibe. I don't think that about them. When you get that text, you respond. What do you say? At first?

Yeah. What'd you say? I was just like, first, it was just a question mark, immediate question mark. I was like, what? I was fairly in a panic. I was like, I first it was just a question mark, immediate question mark. I was like, what? I was fairly at a panic. I was like, I wasn't expecting it. It just was out of nowhere. Not entirely out of nowhere.

Well, I realize that now, but in the moment, reading that and taking it literally, I was just like, I really, because I wasn't like up to some shit. You know what I'm saying? So what was after the question mark? I don't know where this is coming from, like i totally want to respect like what you're saying was that wrong yeah that's so bad you didn't even put up a fight i had listen i struggle with that too right because i mean 2019 as well like i don't know

like you tell me you don't want to see me i'm no no no you should have been like listen i'm you should have just said listen i'm sorry that i canceled the so last minute i was just being like a bro watching the football game yeah it was a dick move i would love to take you out and make it up to you i'm well yeah but what what happens what if if in the situation it's like it's like a last ditch effort but i don't i have to want to be in that if if you know if rochelle's like three strikes kind of thing well if you are not interested in if you're totally comfortable with just never seeing her again then you did the right thing but if you're not then you did the wrong thing yeah i don't know anyways can i so anyways i just had a question not to like backtrack too much but you know in the beginning you were talking about being defensive of people but like you are a

badass you're an entrepreneur you started your own thing out of nothing but you still like i'm just asking because i struggle with this too getting super defensive and like um do you like know where that came from or just some a delusional inflated sense of self i i am curious self-esteem i excess self-esteem i am curious for the people who are listening who listen to that or or or for the people who who haven't listened to my your your show that i was on and hearing me saying i had a ton of fun and i thought i really quite liked you when i was there and yeah i thought i was giving someone uh you know kind of a tough time that i was like thought i was like fast friends with i'm really curious if they're maybe i'm wrong yeah but if their whole version of it is completely different if it's just

like oh now that i know that he didn't feel that way i really i wonder if that can change the whole perspective i don't know i feel it does for me like the fact that i'm sitting here and we're like you know doing the thing like it definitely changes my perspective which i is weird because it was just really like a reset button because i felt this way from the beginning and then I was like, oh, fuck. I think people will listen and not find it to be tense. I wonder, yeah. I'm really, I am curious. But I think it is a good like moment

because we do that. We do that all the time, especially with the internet out there. I mean, how many times, I mean, let's be honest. You have a bit of a following. You have a podcast. Again, I mean, Rochelle's always hearing from me like we got this feedback i try to stay away because feedback's good to a certain extent but then it's like i don't do it does it change what you're doing and sometimes if you're listening to everyone then you're kind of

fucking yourself up i felt like i had a social and civil responsibility to defend myself after that do you know what i mean like i don't really give a fuck about feedback like i could not do generally speaking i really don't care i'm not attached to my podcast or a following or listen i could stop doing what i'm doing tomorrow and be very, very happy. I don't need the lights and the praise. I don't need any of that shit. I'm happily married. I travel with my husband. I'm good.

But when I felt that I was being like portrayed as stupid or I wasn't in on it, I felt like I had to defend myself. Like I felt like I had to protect my honor and my name. Was it more stupid or in on it? Both. A little bit of both. Do you judge people's intelligence, do you think, before you talk to them? I mean-

You're a smart guy. I'm thinking back to the podcast, your intelligence, I'd never crossed my mind. I didn't think, I mean, I assumed for someone to have a successful podcast over time, it's really hard to do. Especially with no pre-existing platform. Just slipping that in there. Great. But seriously, it's one thing for anyone to have something interesting to say for a while.

Sustainability, you have to be thought for provoking and you have like and that takes a skill set a level i what i'm saying is i literally just never i never thought to myself are you smart are you not smart i just didn't register with me yeah at all no i think i mean i'll say it a million times i totally overrereacted. I let people get in my ear. I was alone in Paris and feeling spicy after a few glasses of wine, and I just unleashed. So you were in Paris having wine when you recorded the second podcast? No, that was right when I got home. You just had a whole plane ride of like, I'm going to roast this motherfucker.

A hundred percent. I was reading those messages. I was like up in bed. I was like, what the fuck? I was like, oh, oh, oh, load her up. To see there was like that many. I was just like, I don't, why does everyone, I don't understand. There was like this thread in one of the groups on Facebook, which I, it's like a lot to deal with.

That was just like, bam, bam, bam, bam, and pull quotes. And I was like, like I started turning into the Hulk. Well, when you pull quotes out of context from a show with no like tone or whatever, granted, my tone was also sarcastic. So yeah, you have a dry tone, which I'm fine with,

but I just, I don't know. I'm just blaming Leo season. I'm going to stick with that. Whatever. I mean, obviously I did. And you were slightly snide. No, not, I don't know. I'm just blaming Leo season. I'm going to stick with that. Whatever. I mean, obviously. And you were slightly snide. No, I'm a dry sarcastic. When you said to me, do you have any, well, do you have any good stories?

I'm surprised that that bugged you so much. I thought like at the end of the podcast that you just didn't knew I was, we literally had it already scheduled. I know. I don't know why I bought it so much. I'm just like, of all the things, that's the one that really got you. That really fucking got me.

I was like, excuse me? That would bother me. The show's all off. See you in a couple weeks, I guess. No, that would bother me. And I guess, I remember you saying that, and then I was like, motherfucker. No, I guess like Rochelle scheduled it. I don't know exactly what day it was. I mean, can you admit that that then i was like motherfucker no i guess like rochelle scheduled

it i don't know exactly what day it was you i mean can you admit that that would be a little bit like i know i'm a sarcastic and i've been told my whole life sarcastic doesn't have the negative connotation that i'm looking for i like to tease and maybe subconsciously i'm always like making people feel on their toes sure looking back we're i mean i get it now i totally get it also like there are different people like and again i didn't know you at all yeah right but listening your podcast and meeting you i was like this person loves to fucking give it and i i thought it was like that's why i'm here i thought i thought i was like really teasing someone who like she knows what i'm like she knows what i'm doing here god i did uh and like really teasing someone who like she knows what I'm like.

She knows what I'm doing here. I did. And like, that's what they like in the moment. I was like, this is cool. Cool. And like you're laughing and whatever. And she went off. Yeah.

And so I was like, what the fuck? What's going on? I'm calling her show. Like, this is back. I don't know what's going on. I like that about me. I don't want to lose that. You know, which part?

The the passive aggressive kind of unleashing, impulsive, reactive side. It is it. It buys me my shoes and my purses. So I'm not going to lose it. But I will apologize when I take it too far. And it's unwarranted. Will you go back on another solo episode and give more thoughts on our budding relationship? Well, I definitely did an episode with Wells

that I recorded. Oh wait, no, I did. Oh, that makes sense. Oh yeah, I talked shit about you in that episode. That was all in the same week. But I will- Wait, you talked shit about me in another episode? That makes sense because Wells, I joked about- I think they cut it out after we spoke i was like we need to cut that out because

i'm going on this podcast and i misread the situation i have the email i'll send it to you i literally emailed my producer and i was like i think i went a little too ham and we've talked and we cleared it up and i think now i look like an asshole. So maybe we just like, and I've never made any edits on any, like, I don't make edits on podcasts ever. And I was like, we should probably like not leave that in. They might have, but. Well, how hard of a pain did you go? Not, not, not bad.

Because I wasn't that bad. That makes sense now because I was, Wells and I were texting and he brought you up. I like him a lot. does he not like me no he said because i thought we i thought we had a good report uh he said uh i don't know it was basically not bitch bible like about liking me or something like he was he was reminding me that you hate me uh but I was like, are you friends with her? Like, what's going on? I don't know. So that makes sense.

The beautiful thing is that I can have a very, very strong opinion about someone or something. And it could be immediately eradicated in just a face-to-face confrontation. I could change my mind like that i mean i like confrontation i like when people are like hey what the fuck was that about and then i like think about it and i i'm more often than not lean in this is just me and it hasn't always served me well but the more i like you the more I'm willing to, like whether it's a front challenge, I'm asking you a question, disagree with you, get into it with you.

Because like, I care. You feel comfortable. I also care about like what someone thinks if I'm Ash's challenge. Like there's some people, it's like, hey, I don't have the energy to even try. I'll disagree with you. Let's just get this conversation over with.

So you're saying I was different? I just found it was interesting interesting which is why would i listen to back that was fun i mean like you mix it up the moral of this story is that we have weathered our first fight beautifully it was great also the moral of the story is like while our friends are great and the twitter is also fun and entertaining it It's not necessarily the analytics you want to pull all your data from. No, no, no, no. You got to like keep it to number one and just listen to yourself and-

Trust your gut. Trust your gut. Yeah, we talk about that a lot. But especially if you have more firsthand knowledge, also when we're in our relationships and we're like telling our story, like, you story, like, you know,

you were, you're the only one who was there. Yeah, that's, that's true. That's true. And that's in all our relationships. It's just like,

you might also like, you know, you were there and all your information, they're just hearing from you. I mean, when you are hearing stories, do you try, do you like,

are you immediately agree with them or are you? No, I'm a diffuser. So you're like, we'll consider his point of view sometimes. I like to be, I surround myself with no people. I'm like somebody who really, really trusts people more who tell me the truth, whether it's not flattering. How did we not get along?

I don't know. Because we didn't know each other that well. And that's why you were talking to me like I was stupid And I got pissed It was Leo season I'm gonna say it till I bleed out Okay it was fucking Leo season So you like know people I do

Like all my closest friends are people that I've had since high school That will look at me and be like You're being a bitch You're Like people who really can like Not just tell me the things that I need to be hearing all the time Because I don't trust people like that Because I find that to be like very insincere

And just like not well-intentioned. So if I have a friend that's having a problem and I have a lot of girlfriends that have had a lot of problems, A, you never want to make too big of an opinion or too broad of an opinion on someone else's relationship because let me tell you something, they get back together, you get iced out, period. Secondly, you're getting one side of the story and if anything, you just wanna be, if you're being a good friend, you should diffuse, diffuse, diffuse

and let them work it out. You don't, it doesn't involve you. You have nothing to do with it. You can offer advice if it's something serious or, you know, maybe you deserve, like little things, but you can't, you can't insert yourself in other people's relationships. It will never, ever work out well for you. Ever. Oh, that's, that's great. It's the truth. You just can't do it. You're either going to get iced out or it's going to get, it's just.

Iced out. Like where they get back together. Tale as old as time. Yeah. Is your husband a no person? He, yes. I mean, he will definitely look at me and be like,

what are you doing? Like he's pretty passive and I'm obviously not passive, but he definitely like calms me down. He's like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, he's like, relax. Like you're fine. fine it's fine i wonder what he would think of her episode um i like kind of briefed him on everything and he was just like what's the big deal he's like i don't get it like why are you why are you saying that like he definitely he took your side actually

and then i like played him parts and i was like is that really bad that i said that and then i'm like going on his podcast and i like ripped him a new asshole and he's like why would you do that that's like so unnecessary that's what he kept saying to me that's unnecessary i mean again that's how i pay for my shoes bitch like i was like but like nick doesn't care what if she rips you to shreds right i mean i'll survive not to shreds it was just like a little minor i went about my day i don't want to say like yeah listen i care what i it was rude i care about people what people think way more than i want to i'm i'm really good at moments about not giving the fuck i feel like sometimes i'm the worst type of version and that is the type of version is

i care about what people think yeah but it doesn't stop me from being myself. And therefore, I'm constantly being myself, but subsequently still worrying about what people think. Sure. Right? Oh, yeah. So I'm glad that I can be myself. Yeah. But it makes you really like full of anxiety often as a result.

Yeah. I can agree with that. I feel that i like well like on here we always like try to make relatable subjects out of firsthand information yeah um so in your relationship you have a as you describe somewhat of a you said passive husband I don't know if passive is the right word. He's chill. He like is very entertained by my level of crazy. You think you're crazy? I think so. Yeah.

Like it's fun. I love crazy, by the way. I think crazy is a positive adjective. I love a crazy bitch. I think it's called chutzpah, but I don't want to like, you know, bust out my Yiddish because I don't know what your audience is like. But I prefer chutzpah but i don't want to like you know bust out my yiddish because i don't know what your audience is like but i prefer chutzpah over crazy i think it's just a uh zest for life well you say crazy and there's like this like clearly not crazy and do you do people do people call men crazy as much as they call women crazy probably not right you know like even you call yourself

crazy clearly you're not crazy no true crazy people don't call themselves crazy but like i can be pretty crazy and i don't think i don't i just never have thought crazy as being a bad thing there was all those articles that came out that we need to stop using the term crazy i'm like why it's fun lean into the crazy lead with crazy so if someone is is it chutzpah chutzpah chutzpah for days and they have a reaction to something whatever it is how to non-crazy people respond to the chutzush? Do they just kind of assume they might feel differently five minutes later? No, I mean, I think there's like a level of if you are a crazy person like me, I think that there's some type of like a reactionary pull. Like I like to do shit to just like freak my husband out.

Like he's so cool, calm and collected that i'll just like kick it up on a few notches just to keep it spicy to keep myself entertained i'll kick it up does he ever react oh yeah he does like it takes so much though when he does does he know that you're actually just trying to get him to react yeah does that make him more mad um sometimes but we always end up laughing about it like it's always talking about that you do well he's a music producer and they get very in the zone when they're in a session and the schedules are crazy and the travel is crazy and he could be like in a different part of the country and like listen if i have a question or if i need to get a hold of him i will text him the alphabet 76 times until he responds to me

because i'm like i'm your fucking wife i need to get a hold of you i will kick it up 17 notches and he'll text me and he'll be like babe like i'm i'm recording something right now like i can't talk a send b send c send oh yeah yeah yeah yeah or if he goes leaving soon and then an hour goes by and i track that motherfucker so i know where he is all the time and i see that he hasn't fucking left the recording studio i will screenshot it i will i i google like divorce attorneys and then i make quick little montages on my phone to black and white to sar McLachlan. I will remember you.

I'll send it to him. I'll send it to his production partner. I just go off. Are you a jealous person? Not really. No, I'm really not. I get like territorial over him because he's super hot and doesn't know how hot he is.

And he's like successful. And he like, you know, he works with artists that are like, you know, he works with artists that are like, you know, done and the whole thing but he's just not like that. So,

if anything, I kind of play up the jealousy because it just is fun for me. But you track him on your phone? Well, it's really honestly anyone that is married to anybody in the music industry

does this. It's a thing. Do I, may I give you a hard time? Yes, yes. You've earned it now. Go for it.

I don't doubt that you have fun with it, but there's any part that really is, it's coming from a place of checking, like. Nah, it really isn't. I would totally say my husband is like the most solid, obsessed with me. We are like rock motherfucking solid. I know everybody he works with.

I just can't help myself. I just think it's funny. I don't know. And I don't know your husband, but like, does I would get, I've been in relationships where I felt like I was really doing my part to make them comfortable. Like, yeah, like I always took pride in my girlfriend being like, Nick would never cheat on me. I've never cheated on someone in a relationship.

Yeah. And I've been in relationships where no matter what I was doing, she constantly felt like she was kind of doing some of those things. And it gave me a lot of angst. I'm like, oh, I don't know what to do to make you not do this because i'm a literal person so like if someone like fucks with me in that sense yeah i'll be like well i'm i'm not i guess what do you want you know i just really like to annoy him it's really like that like i just really love to fuck with him because he doesn't break easy and then then when he breaks, it's so funny.

Like, it just makes me laugh. It's really just like. It doesn't give him anxiety? No. He doesn't. Well, maybe your husband is you that chill or he doesn't have anxiety. That's great. No, he's so fucking chill.

He thinks I'm. He's just like, what the fuck is this person? Like, he's so unamused. So I just push it as far as i can as often as i can because i just like to see him like break if your husband was here and you weren't and i was just like why did you marry oh he would probably start crying and gushing and like read his fucking vows he's like oh the biggest softy so i have to like fuck with him a little bit. How did you guys meet? We met through my best friend, who's a guy,

went to Berklee College of Music with him and set us up at a bar. And then we were like boyfriend, girlfriend in three days. Oh my God. So it was love at first sight? No. How long did you date before you got married? We were together six years.

Before you got engaged or married? Before we got married. How long were you engaged for? We were engaged for a year. No breakup? Year and a half. Never. Never a breakup?

Not for a day, not for an hour, not for a minute. No. That's pretty unique for that long of a courtship. Sometimes there's angst or whatever. No. It's cool. Yeah, we're pretty rock solid that's why like i can openly discuss how like that shit crazy i'm i like post this shit on the internet like it's not a secret like we we talked about a little bit but because i feel like you're so honest and forward and you have your uh shtick and and like you are

openly i'm crazy you're not really crazy but like, but I'm just like, I get bored easily. And you are seemingly a confident person who is willing to say whatever. What is Jackie really insecure about? Oh, I'm really. Do you talk a lot about that? No, no. I'm really insecure about people thinking

that I'm faking it, like faking it till I make it, because I have been very overly confident my entire life and like delusions of grandeur. But this is like, I finally found my thing and I'm successful at it. And I'm very protective over people thinking that my husband like bankrolls my life. Like I'm very, very sensitive about that because it's not fucking true any shit that i'm wearing anything i buy i pay for is that within your audience or your friend group or like outsiders like whose opinions do you value the most um probably people uh not friends because i don't fucking hang out with people like that um

actually strangers a lot of people who just don't know me that well or who have a mixed perception of me it could be family members i mean like i don't know your husband right and you say he's in the music industry as you know well more than i would know yeah that's so subjective in terms of people's success like you know your husband's successful but someone can say they're in the music industry and a producer and they could be working at wendy's you know like you don't you don't know so it's always i get protective of him too that makes me i hate when fucking people think that he's just like you know what i mean he's like a successful worked his ass off came from nothing like i get real protective over that i don't like when people

think that i'm like i don't work or i don't that i'm just like you know some wife that just spends on my husband's credit card i get real fucking pissed about that do people what what would someone have to say to make you feel that um oh i've been called before yeah what uh years ago i would have family members that would call me like a stay-at-home girlfriend or stay-at-home wife or like oh you remember yeah yeah yeah like insinuating that what i do has no value to my lifestyle is that because you started podcasting before it was in vogue and people didn't understand what it was or that it was a profitable business model yeah i mean i literally made a joke. I was like, for everyone's

Hanukkah present next year, we are going to do my tax returns and I will show you all my payment statements for, you know, January, February. Cause it's like, people don't understand. And I totally get that. And I shouldn't like feel like I need to lay my dick on the table, but I, but I kind of feel like that sometimes because i'm i just don't want people to think that i'm not doing anything it's an interesting analogy lay your dick on the table i like that i get it too because sometimes in the like you'll get a joke about like a guy drives a certain car or like bde versus small de and as a guy you feel like you're painted in a corner,

like kind of similar to like bragging about money, right? If you're talked about money, short of showing your tax return, people just assume you're lying, right? Or you don't know. It's just like, well, I tell, like, so you could say, well, no, I make a lot of money. I grew up in LA too. So you see a bunch of fucking losers who are like,

especially on Instagram, living the life. And it's like you don't have a car you live on you have a blow-up mattress like stop projecting something that's incorrect but same with like dick size no matter what someone says or suggests about you you either have this choice of like you could your only option know how what someone is actually lay your dick on the table or not because if you say no i have a big dick or i have a small dick everyone's like was he saying because he has a small dick because he actually has a big dick and he's kind enough to say howard stern method or he's just like i have a small dick and he actually has a small dick and he's you never really know so you really show us

your dick you just have to show up exactly in a consensual safe space. Yes, of course. Always, always. What a wonderful analogy. It's true. It actually really works. And then if you're like too, then you're obnoxious and then you're, you know, an egomaniac or you're pretentious. It's a slippery slope.

Like not showing your tax return. Like, well, he's not showing it because he doesn't want to brag or he doesn't make any money. You should just be secure and know what you do has value why do you need to tell people and i'm like because i just want them to know that i'm not lying about it you know what i mean like i don't know why i get it i mean that's a the the constant journey

and struggle of saying we don't care what people think but but still caring what people think. And then every day trying to figure out how we can not let what people think dictate our actions, which we, I mean, I mean. Have you done the Enneagram test? No. You should do it. A lot of people say that. Yeah, you should do it. I like pretended I was at number eight

because I just like read them and I was like, oh, that's so me. And then I did the test four times and then I paid to do a real test. I paid like $14.99. Same results. Type three. And I was like, fuck.

Because it's so accurate. I'm like, shit. But you didn't like what three suggested? No. What did three suggest? What is it? It's what is type three or what is the test?

Can you give us the cliff notes on what the test is? Yeah. Tell me what is type three or what is the test uh can you give us the cliff notes on what the test is yeah tell me what a type three is basically the test is you do it online then they're all fine the free ones are fine and it basically asks you a bunch of yes or no questions takes like 15 to 20 minutes reasonable and then it gives you kind of your personality type so i think there's eight or I could be butchering this. I think there's like nine types of people. And then there's like levels. So you could be like a three and a six

and a three and a nine or something like that. But you're one number and it gives you kind of this scarily accurate personality rundown. What are you? I'm a three. Which means? The performer. You're a you? I'm a three. Which means? The performer.

You're a ham. I am a ham. And it's like, it's just so dead on the money and I hate it so much. Just a performer? It's the performer. It's kind of like an egomaniac

who like attaches success to things and is very generous, but feels a need. His biggest fear in life is like being a loser, like being a failure and measuring success based on like sometimes material goods. And, and,

and it's deeper than that. That's the, those are the pull things that offended me. What do you think I am? I think you i don't know a lot about all the other types gotcha so i'm not i'm not i mean you should take the test and we'll talk about it next time i mean there's things about three that like i feel like oh no what is oh god the charmer the charmer wants to be affirmed to distinguish themselves

from others to have attention to be admired and to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others. A basic fear of being worthless. That's a fear of mine. You could be a three. I could be a three. You could be a three. I've been called a ham. You could be a three.

First time I was called a ham, I'm like, I had to Google it. Really? What is this? I honestly don't find ham to be that tasty. Please take this and then tell me what your results are. Only if I like the results. Do you think most people like their own results or does everyone kind of hate it?

Is there like a result that like everyone wants to be because it sounds the most like... There's a couple that are like, oh my God, like the giver or like the optimist. I don't know if that's the right word, but there's like some that are super positive. Yeah, super positive. And like three is like, you're an insecure piece of shit starving for everyone's validation exactly and i'm like yeah not exactly

it's not all bad choice adaptable excelling driven and image conscious charmer you know i could be charming when i want to be if it benefits me same i can be a real dick or i can sweep you off your feet it really just depends the shimmy what i am yeah totally i i mean and i i don't go into like i think not to we've we've exhausted the podcast but like yes we uh i i have been told whether like and maybe i realize it when i am reminded of it but like i do like give to give people a hard time and there's definitely a i don't say it's a manipulation thing but you keeps people on their toes about like trying to i so disagree i think the opposite is so much more effective i think you butter them up at the beginning it's a whole science this is how i do it lay it on thick

butter them up this is a safe space we're cool we're chill i'm normal disarm them a little bit and then you go in for the kill in the second half oh that's well and when i'm in this seat like howard that's howard stern's big rule is build him up to break him down he just compliments his shit out of his guests early on and just be like i'm such a huge fan and it's true you warm them up and you want then they feel comfortable i want to share my truth with my friend you also need to um kind of shit on yourself a little bit you need to be super self-deprecating at the beginning yeah because then it just it evens the playing field and then you get away with whatever the fuck you want to say no i didn't i i think i totally agree with that getting people to open up but in terms

of like i guess guess I would. Butter and self-deprecation. I guess I don't, again, when I do it, I'm not doing it deliberately, but I've been told if I'm sometimes dismissive on accident, because I can be aloof. Aloof. Aloof, where I'll just be like thinking about something and completely disinterested in someone if you talk to me.

I'm like, huh, whatever. And then, you know, it's a dickish thing it is and then it gets and then i mean when people are aloof to me i know i'm constantly worried about well why don't they care about what i have to say and then they get you getting your own head and yeah etc etc yeah um yeah well you know the more you fucking know cue the rainbow aren. Aren't we wonderful? You want to play a little game called Do You Know Me? Yeah. So our guest can further our exploration of Jackie.

Oh, whoa. Okay. I haven't. Rochelle has selected these questions. Oh, can't wait. So she gets full credit and praise or criticism. Got it. I, can't wait. So she gets full credit and praise or criticism.

Got it. I can't take criticism. She's fragile. No criticism. She's far more talented than she gives herself credit for.

That I kept my fanny pack on during this. I'm not sure why. Let's go. Isn't it amazing how fashion works? I love a fanny pack hands free no but like first it was cool then it was like the most grotesque thing you could wear now also cool again i mean i buy sneakers brand new that look dirty so who the fuck oh no those golden

goose ones my favorite sneakers oh i'm sorry do not understand though i know that's a that's how you buy them they? These are brand new They like are destroyed And they're like $700 Don't make me sound unlikable No sorry I think You're just cooler than me

No they're handmade They're super comfortable I love them I can't help myself I know It's a consumer It's bad It's not cool

But I like that they look dirty I don't know Hey Jackie's family If you're listening She can afford $700 shoes That look like To the distant cousins

In the back So back the fuck off And her husband Didn't pay for them No he did not No Do you know me Jackie we're gonna

Ask some questions Okay We're going to Guess Rochelle and I Okay Of what we think And at the end of our little quiz rochelle and i are going to determine who's a better judge of character okay so don't answer

immediately okay until we say well which one is it okay has jackie sent anyone a nude in the last week? I'm going to say yes. Her husband's obsessed with her. I'm sure he's requesting them all the time. She's trying to get him home from the recording studio. Yes. Really great logic. Also, for someone who texts her husband the alphabet,

I can imagine a nude thrown in there being like, you're never going to see this again. Then the flip side, she could be like, he doesn't deserve to see this because he's not responding. Last week. I'm going to say no in the last week. Certainly she sent her husband a nude. I'm going to say yes in the last week.

What is it? No. Oh, dang it. Hard no. Hard no. I don't do nudes good for you no way ever no no way off for sure yeah no hard no i wouldn't i would be too by the way like oh my god someone picks up his phone and like his best friend sees my tits like i can't no it's smart it's smart

smart too many bros all the more you trust some... I will say this interestingly enough about nudes. I... No, I'm saying like even, you know, back in the day... Have you sent a dick pic? Oh, for sure. He has. Yes.

Girlfriends for sure if they ask without my face. Do people really ever want to see that though? I would agree. But sometimes I think... I've wanted to. I think sometimes it's like a... Well, like it's like a reciprocity thing. I would agree that I don't even know if they want to see it.

They're just like, they, you know, I sent you this. So like, whatever. If I just like looked at my phone and saw a big old dick on my screen, I'd be like, nope. Unsolicited. I feel like that's the most unfortunate thing you could send someone. I get dick pics sometimes. What I'm saying is

i've been fascinated by uh listen i i've always like people i've been ever dated i was uh i always felt very lucky obviously in a relationship but specifically like i'm very attracted to you so it's like i like there's no ownership but like i get to see you naked and therefore i feel lucky so you know like i didn't want to show my friends, especially if they didn't want to, but I will be just for the ladies out there, guys do show their friends. Of course.

Messed up. That is so awful. Not everyone, but some do. Some do. Just know this. If it was like a great photo, I wouldn't be so pissed about it. Also, yeah, maybe you're okay with that.

Show your friends. I mean, it's just, it pissed about it. Also, yeah, maybe you're okay with that. Show your friends. I mean, it's just interesting. You're welcome, everybody. Does Jackie have any hidden piercings? No. Nipples. No. I went out on a limb for that one.

Fuck, no. Okay, I'm losing by two. I think Jackie's more conservative than she might come across. Yeah, I would agree with that. Sounds like it. I would agree with that. She's a married broad. Married broad.

Has two zero, Rochelle. I know. Has Jackie given someone the middle finger in the last week? Again, bitch Bible. But, I mean, who knows in the last week. Again, bitch Bible. But, I mean, who knows in the last week? Yes. I'm going to say yes in traffic. What are you saying, Nick?

I'm going to say no. Literally, like, probably 25 people. Like, I do that all the time. I am so that bitch. i had an altercation two days ago this is so embarrassing i was getting on the freeway and this motherfucker was riding my ass and i just got a new car and i was being very mindful because it drives a little differently and faster than i'm used to i fucking put that sunroof up. We started going 25 miles per hour on the freeway and just was like, oh, sunroof bird. They come around next to me.

It's one of the teachers at my Pilates studio. No. You know them? No. Do they know you? Yeah. You still throw out birds. Do you know what I-

I didn't know who it was until they came up next to me and I was like, that's rough. I have never, I'm not better or worse, I'm just saying I have never, I don't understand the middle finger, especially for traffic or road rage. However, what I have often done, having gotten the middle finger at some point

while driving, you don't really get something going. Thumbs up? Thumbs up. You smile, or just a nice wink. You give them a look like, no hey what's up you're welcome that they will lose their shit nothing there's a win right yeah pisses me off more than some motherfucker in a mitsubishi and they take their fucking emblem off like oh maybe we'll think it's

a maserati if you put a spoiler on your honda not that it matters what car you drive but it's the lie it's the living of the lie that I have an issue with so you put some rims on that bitch and a spoiler and you black out the windows and they're fucking whipping and nae nae through the fucking traffic like where are you going I hate that person fuck you I hate you and then you know what's the worst thing you can do if you're in a fit of road rage which it doesn't sound like you have you roll your windows down it doesn't matter if they're in a Maserati or a Mazda. You just go, sick Mazda, bro. Oh, no. That'll drive him nuts.

Oh, no. Or if it's a Porsche. It doesn't matter. Sick Porsche. I drive like an old man. I drive like an old man. I got nowhere to go. I got nowhere to go.

I'll get there. But would you be so pissed if someone, it's not about, it has nothing to do with what type, it's just very off-putting and condescending. In terms of what, the sick master? Whatever it is. Sick Range Rover. It's just fucking, it's just rude.

I mean, yeah. I like it. Because the assumption is certain people, they are certain people, mostly guys. Yeah. A lot of them care very much about their cars. Exactly. Exactly.

And it's their literally identity. And so for you to mock them for that. Yeah. Like I'm not a car guy at all. I really don't care. I do have a Range Rover. Yeah. But to the point, sometimes I don't like that I have a Range Rover because I don't want

to be pegged into that. I just, I spend a lot of time in a car because I live in LA. Yeah. And it's a very comfortable drive. don't like that i have a range over because i don't want to be pegged into that i just i spent a lot of time in a car because i live in la and it's a very comfortable drive i just test drove it i totally agree with you but i i have no attachment to cars whatsoever i would prefer to just haven't be ubered everywhere i fucking hate driving yes um but i've had friends who love their cars and when you mock them for it, wow, it's,

it's like mocking someone for their dick. It made it really for some people truly. And then you just drive away and it's done. All right. I got one point. You got two. That's right. Michelle's trying to tell us to move along.

Has Jackie been to a strip club in the last year? Yes. I would say yes. No. Try in the last week. Oh! Wow, you really don't listen because when you were out there having your burrito,

I mentioned that I just got a laugh dance in Vegas and just dry humped on all fours with the guy's penis out. How did you not listen to that? I just said it in front of him. Eating a burrito. I was talking about my whiplash from my lap dance.

I do remember you say whiplash. I was like, what is she talking about? Oh my God. Oh my God. By the way, there was three people in the room. I was two feet away from you. I was eating a burrito. All right.

It must have been a fucking great burrito. Oh, my God. Does Jackie sleep naked? No. In fact, I'm going to say she has some very fancy, expensive night garments. I'm going to say yes, she does. I do not. I am a pajama.

I like a full fucking set. I imagine it to be a fucking routine. It is. Yeah, totally. It's a whole production. It is. I like love pajamas. Like I have the sets and the fit.

Like I love, love pajamas. Handmade sneakers. Kill me. Last question. You can tie or you can lose, Rochelle. You can't win. Oh, I like these odds. Was Jackie ever suspended from school?

I'm going to say no, but she should have been. Wait, do I have to say yes? I can't win. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no because I think she has this persona like, I'm a bad bitch, but really. She's a rule follower. But really, yeah. But I think she could have been. She'm a bad bitch but really she's a rule follower but really yeah but i think she could have been she just didn't get caught she's too smart no i

was i was suspended i was um i was very i just hated school i was really good at it because i could like in high school my way uh in high school and in middle school but high school specifically I um well it happened a couple times I uh ditched class a lot you did yeah I hated class I'm like I'm not listening to this motherfucker like I see she really is bitch bible no I just had like a um I had a complex I was like why the fuck do I need to go to chemistry? This is never going to help me. I can cheat my way through. And I did. I cheated a lot. I cheated all the time. Did you go to college? For like six months. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And then I dropped out. Look at her now, baby. Yeah. Killing it. Totally killing it. No. Not really. It worked out. Jackie. it. No, not really. Uh, it worked out. Jackie.

Nikki. Thank you so much for coming. You are so welcome. I'm really glad that I came. Uh, same. Yeah. Uh,

for those of you, uh, who don't know where to find Jackie. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the podcast is called The Bitch Bible. And on Instagram, I'm at Jackie Schimmel.

And that's it. How many of your listeners hated me while you were listening to, and then subsequently went to my podcast and gave me one star? Did that happen? I don't know. I mean, I hope that didn't happen because I would be so pissed. If that happened to me, I would be so pissed.

I think, I agree with you. I don't like the word fan, but I think sometimes listeners are, and like that's, again, listen, you'd rather have that because you like that they care and you have some very protective listeners. Sure, sure, sure. And same, I mean, again, when Jenna was on,

I was like, guys, chill out, we're friends, it's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even then they were like, no, no, we don't like what she said. I was like, oh. Like, relax, everybody. Everything's fine. Everyone calm the fuck down.

Thanks for coming. Thank you. Listen to Bitch Bible. Make your own assumptions. Especially when it comes to Julianne Hough. Sorry, Julianne Hough. Poor girl. Poor thing.

I was like, what did she do to you? I'll probably change my mind in like six months. It's all good. It's a very funny, enlightening podcast. So check it out. Thanks. Thanks for coming. Anytime.

I'm available. I have a feeling you guys are going to be good friends. Yeah, I feel like we're good. We're chill. I thought we were. I felt like. No, it took a round two for me. Yeah, it took a round or two. It took round two.

Don't always listen to your friends. I learned a fucking lesson, okay? I get it. Oh, I saw it in our audience not you oh yeah sorry a little defensive over here jackie is nothing she's not defensive at all no not at all not even a little bit no me never uh we all can be we all can be yeah um thanks everyone for listening as always uh don't forget to rate us five stars thanks for sharing us on your social uh we will see you back on uh monday for another wonderful and exciting

episode of ask nick see you next time bye