The Viall Files - E447 Going Deeper with Nick & Natalie - Lake House, Hot Girl Summer & Nipples

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined again by Natalie Joy as Nick and Natalie call in from London! On this episode we test out our British accents and give a major update to the Lake House Situation where Nick talks about what he thinks will happen next. We also dive into some pop culture topics such as navigating hot girl summer with non-traditional relationships, Florence Pugh’s Free the Nipple dress, and how the reactions to this dress say a lot about society. We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours caller who has trouble navigating a situation where a guy she’s been dating has been mysterious and unresponsive. Is his job on a golf course really that time consuming? Or is there something deeper going on? We also react to an email from a fan asking for advice when she thinks that a guy broke up with her over her loud chewing.  “It’s a different kind of sting.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Our listeners get 10% off their first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALLFILES Everlywell: Everlywell is offering a special discount of 20% off an at-home lab test at http://www.EverlyWell.com/viall Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

hello from london welcome to the vile farm that's the best i got how would you say what's up with a London British accent? A good day, mate. What's up? What's up, everybody? What's going on? How you going? Anyway, welcome to the Volfalls.

That was such awkward timing. I'm clenching my vagina. Not live. Allie. Inappropriate. Allie, you're cut off. I just sounded like a dad on a road trip. Yeah.

Allie! We are not stopping at Starbucks if you continue to talk like that, young lady. Well, special episode. We are coming to you, Natalie and I, from our hotel room once again in London. And Natalie, what? I can't. I don't have an accent. It's joyful.

It's wonderfully terrible. But Natalie is with us, our guest. Welcome, Natalie. Thank you, love. You have a wonderful British accent. Ladies, how are you? Are you guys keeping the fort down? We're holding it down. We are here. It's just on fire behind you. Yeah.

Burns down. It's the goop store. In the middle. It's great. Is it weird'all. Yeah. Burns down. It's the goop store. In the middle. It's great. Is it weird seeing my empty chair like across the room? Not really because you're like six inches away from it, but I guess. I find it kind of disconcerting. It feels like a ghost situation.

Thank you, Amanda. It's fine. Who needs them? I was like, you know, I'm good. You can stay. Well, Natalie returns after a hot off yesterday's fine. Who needs them? I was like, you know, they're good. You can stay. Well, Natalie returns. Hot off yesterday's episode.

We are in London. I suppose everyone wants to get an update on the lake house. So we'll kick off with that. It was glorious. I think the coolest thing for me, seeing the lake house. So we drove up and I was pretty nervous because I had not been there since I was like 10. It's been 30 years. For the people who have asked, why have I never gone up in these past 30 years? Well, one was, part of the reason is right after my grandfather passed away and they sold the property, it was, I think,

the first Mother's Day following my family selling the house. And for whatever reason, I think my mom wanted to go up and see the house for Mother's Day. So we drove up there as a family and we all ate lunch on the porch of the house next to my parents' lake house. And I had this vivid memory seeing this new family, like walking in and out of the house, playing in the yard, playing on the deck. And I was just, it was like torture for me. And so I had this like, I never want to see this again. And then again, I was only 10 years old. So, you know, I just kind of lived my life and went to school and high school. And by again, I was only 10 years old. So, you know, I just kind of lived my life and went to school and high school. And by the time I was an adult, it was like this place, this mythical

place that I would always dream about. And I just, it was like, I just never wanted to go up and visit and see someone else enjoy the house. It was always in the back of my mind, like something I had hoped that, you know, my mom's brothers would want to like buy and bring it back in the family. Some of them are pretty successful. So that was kind of always a dream that I had. And it wasn't until last year where I finally realized I was in a position to possibly like, you know, afford it if it was available. And then as we all know, that didn't happen. But so when we drove up, it was pretty surreal. The biggest takeaway for me was like, I've had this recurring dream of being on the lake and

being at this house. And the dream is essentially like, I'm just either on the lake or in the house and it's like back in my family's possession. And the coolest thing about visiting the lake is that, you know, because when I was going up there, I wasn't sure like, what would it be like? Would I remember it the same way? Would, you know, because I had so many recurring dreams about this place, would I go up there and go, this is not the place I've been dreaming about.

It's been 30 years. I haven't really been looking at pictures or anything like that. It's all been years. I haven't really been looking at pictures or anything like that. It's all been in my memory of the house and the property and the view and just the lake. And I got to say, it is everything I've been dreaming about for the past 30 years, which was really cool. To that end, it actually feels like when I was up there, it felt like I was having one of the dreams that I so often had over the past 30 years to like, it was this really kind of weird where nothing changed

in my head about what I had been dreaming about, what I had remembered versus like being back up. So that was like, it was kind of meta where it was like, am I, it's like, I, it felt like I was having a dream being on the lake. It was kind of cool. So when we drove up, the guy who owns it and his wife were there. He was outside in the front and he greeted us right away. Just want to say that lovely family, lovely people, very gracious. Because when I reached out, obviously they had just bought the property. And when I reached out and asked to go up, like, you have to recognize that, like, it must have been like a little awkward for them knowing that,

like, I wanted to buy it. They wanted to buy it too. You know, we certainly tried to like guilt them into like, you know, selling it. The negotiations were attempted. Yeah. Right. And there's a bit of a negotiation. And so like, and they decided to keep it and they had the right to do that. So clearly, like when we when we showed up, like there was definitely a little bit of awkwardness, right. And so we walked down to the front. And like, you know, my mom's is obviously wonderful and very emotional. And she has a huge emotional attachment to this property. And so we tried our best like and I tried to prepare my mom like mom like, I know you're trying to like, calm your expectations. But like, I just let's just,

let's just go up there. Let's enjoy just seeing the property for the first time in a very long time. Let's try not to have any expectations. But we both knew in the back of our mind, like we, we hoped that they we would get out of the car. And the couple that the current owners would just like, be like, oh, do you want to just like, we don't want this place anymore. Like, you know, we, you, even though we knew that wasn't going to happen, like I knew, especially my mom was like hoping, like immediately we were going to like be sessing out their vibe, like their attached attachment to the house. And so much that when my, when we we walked down the hill around the front,

the missus was out there reading on the patio. And my mom turns to me and whispers under her breath, she goes, they're not selling. And I'm like, mom, we just got here. Calm down. It's just like, what did you expect? She she couldn't but like obviously she has this emotional attachment to it and so they gave us you know a tour of the inside i mean they didn't really they were really what was really sweet about them is like they were just as like almost excited to hear like our stories of the place you're like and i don't know if they were that was just them just saying saying, let them tell their stories and get it out of their system, so to speak, or they were naturally curious. I think they were, because they would be like,

well, was this here when y'all were, did y'all put this in, or did the previous owner, like, how did this get here? Yeah, they really hadn't done a lot. What was kind of fascinating, there was a lot of things that the previous owner who owned it for 30 years

left and preserved. So like when we were kids, there is like this swing set, which is basically two, it was like two metal poles. It was a very old school kind of like, you know, something that was really made like, well, years ago, like 50, 30, 30, 40 years ago. But it was this two metal poles. My mom had took the actual wooden swing when they sold the place. But the poles that held the swing was still there. So I was like shocked to see that. And so that was there. And then this birdhouse that my great grandfather built like 40, 50 years ago was still there. It was a little run down, but like that was still standing there. The steps leading down to the

lake when we were kids, like when they built the house, my mom had, she was one of six kids. And so you know how when you like pour concrete, the kids always like write their name in the concrete. So when they built the house, they, all the kids did that. So the steps leading down to the lake it was you know craig paul mark jim mary john and so when we were kids we would like play hot hopscotch like down the stairs and like memorize all the names and i thought there was no i thought like they must they certainly like replaced those like steps but like you could see very faintly that they were still there like you could like make out the y and my mom's name so like that was all still there it was all very cool and so they graciously took us out on the lake and did like a really slow pontoon ride around the lake you

could tell like we were like feeling each other out right like you know i was just trying to just enjoy it and you know my parents started asking them questions and like, you could tell my parents trying to like suss out, like how much they liked living there, like hoping for like a glimmer of like a sign that maybe, you know, it wasn't like everything they thought it might be. Like it was fourth of, it was around the 4th of July and it was just the two of them. And they're like, oh, you guys having family up? And they were like, oh no, their kids like had some other plans. And so like you could tell like me and my parents

were just like, interesting. Like, hmm, maybe like their kids, you could almost sense a slight maybe, and I don't know if this was us like reaching, but like you could almost sense a slight maybe disappointment where like they had bought the property with these hopes that their kids would come up and enjoy the lake house. And it sounds like they had done that in previous weekends, but this was 4th of July weekend and they weren't up there. So we're like, oh, maybe their kids are just in their adult lives doing their own thing.

So we were definitely like trying to like suss them out but again just they were very lovely and very nice and very gracious because like i do i give them a lot of credit because it must have been a little awkward to have us as like as you know it just had to have been like because they knew we wanted it right and like there is a moment after the pontoon boat ride where the mister like kind of asked me some questions and I just didn't know what to say because I was really just trying not to like bring anything up. I wasn't, I didn't want to put him in an awkward position.

Like I really was just trying to be grateful that they allowed us up to just enjoy it. And then we kind of sat at the patio and, you know, talked a little bit and like talked about some memories there's this one point my dad goes yeah i really think this is like the best best property on the lake and me and my mom were like dad shut the fuck up like trying to like what do you feel like wow this is really run down and it's gonna take a ton of money to fix yeah this is terrible have they found out about the termite infestation yet yeah but yeah other than that i mean you could tell that there was a couple moments where i felt like i was like i was like mom like lock it up keep it together because you could i could tell my mom was getting emotional

but because you also have to keep in mind like you know while granted like my grandfather built it and i have this emotional attachment to it and And certainly my mom does as well. The family who bought it, it would make sense that there was probably a dream home that they had imagined buying for some time. And actually, they gave us some context too. They told a story. There was another property on the lake that they bid for. They had an accepted offer and I won't go into the details but eventually some very unique situation happened where at the last minute was pulled out from under them and so they had an even tighter grasp on this one but it really helped explain like why with our property you know like could you imagine like they had this other property they thought they were gonna get

they had all these plans at the last, someone came in and some very unique situation caused them not to be able to purchase this. And then they get another accepted offer in this place. And then I come in and be like, no, wait, I want it. I have dibs. It helped at least explain why they were committed to not listening to other offers and they just wanted to get it. So, I mean, it helped, it made, at least made me understand the situation a little bit better, as hard as it was to hear. But like, again, it was, it was very nice. I was really thankful that they had us up. I mean, it's for all the people wondering like, what's next? I mean, what's next is like nothing, unfortunately. And I emailed them afterwards and thanked them again

and just reiterated that if they knew other properties on the lake that might go up for sale to keep me posted, but specifically if they decide to let it go to let me know. And I honestly, I would say like 60-40, they're going to keep it. Because I definitely think if I were trying to make a case for optimism, this is a couple that is nearing retirement. They're basically around my parents' age. They're not quite retired. And they have children who seem to be in their early adult. And it's just like, they probably imagined buying a place like this when their kids were a little bit younger. But they just, for whatever reason, weren't able to do that. And now they have it. And now their kids are living their lives. And this is a property that's kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's a lot of property. It potentially is a lot to take care of. It's a lot. And so the

hope is they get up there, they really enjoy it, it's nice, but their kids aren't enjoying it as much as they had hoped. And it's just a lot of work. And then ultimately, they're like, hey, we got a couple good summers out of it. Maybe we'll just see if Nick wants to get it. So that's the hope. I think the key is how much do their kids use it? They seem like a couple that they enjoyed having, they were very gracious. It seemed like they might like enjoy entertaining and like having people like very, very friendly people, you know, because it would make sense, right? It would make sense that they bought it with like these dreams of how it's going to be utilized in the family. And it could just easily, you know, sometimes you

buy something thinking you can get a lot of use out of it and it just doesn't go that way. And that might change like what you decide to do with it. I think that's the big X factor. Yeah. So I don't know. But either way, it was very nice. And they were very gracious and very lovely people. And it was very generous of them to have us up.

And I'm glad my mom, for the most part, behaved herself. She got a little emotional at the end. They, you you know like kind of gave us like come back anytime you know I don't know if that's like something we're gonna like make a habit of because it was like it was nice to see but like you know it's there it was there was a bit of awkwardness throughout the the day but we spent a good couple hours there and they were very lovely and and very gracious so that that's the update. Yay. Yay.

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That's everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 20% off your next at-home lab test. everlywell.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Talking about summer houses, should we get into the hot girl summer conversation sure i was doing a little digging because i was thinking myself the difference of like a hot girl summer versus a relationship summer and how they differ i was trying to figure out if there was even a name for like a relationship summer couldn't really find one but i did stumble upon this article uh from july of 2021 and it's entitled Can I have a hot girl summer in a long term relationship? And it's written by Tom Rasmussen. And if I understand correctly, Tom was talking about how he has been with his boyfriend for about six years, they went through the pandemic

together, they now have a dog, they've like made all these kind of bigger, more monumental steps in their relationship. But he still has this kind of desire to go out to a club or to, you know, have someone else think he's attractive or flirt with him or have these kind of hot girl summer moments, despite seeing someone seriously. The one context I will give is he did describe it as a monogamish relationship, despite them being together for six years. So I want to point that out. It doesn't sound like it's fully monogamous. But he was saying that he received not one,

but two DMs in the summer of 2021 asking him out or saying that he was cute. And instead of just shutting it down completely and saying, like, I have a boyfriend, whatever, he was very intrigued by what that could mean of, you know, is this really a date? Do I spend time with this person that DM'd me? So he wanted to bring it up to his boyfriend because he was saying, you know, if we can't bring these up six years into the relationship or these like hidden desires, how are we going to bring this up when we're like 60? He basically just went up to his boyfriend.

this up when we're like 60 he basically just went up to his boyfriend and so he went up to his boyfriend he said okay so um okay so I think I've kind of been asked on a date but obviously you know like I don't know what to say that's kind of how he brought the canon on stage and his boyfriend actually said you should go if it's a date it's a date if it's not it's not we can discuss as we go so I kind of wanted to have this as a conversation because obviously he said they're monogamish, very different than other relationships that might be just fully monogamous. But I thought there was an interesting concept of, you know, if someone does have these desires to be found attractive by other people or if they want to go out and explore, can you find that nuance within a relationship?

Or how do you kind of accomplish or scratch that itch of a hot girl summer if you are like tied down or with someone seriously? I mean, I think non-traditional relationships are going to become more and more popular as society breaks away from just more traditional forms of of relationships but i think you're going to have more failed attempts than successful attempts to have these types of like non-traditional relationships with like let's say an open relationship or something that allows you to have a hall pass or or things like that It just, it requires so much trust. And so much communication.

And so much communication in a relationship. And that I think so many people often use it because they're having doubts about the relationship or reluctance. Because it only works if the relationship is in fact truly healthy and you are truly happy and there's no like deeply under rooted issues like not feeling seen or heard or like not feeling loved and things like that. And as a result of the problems in a relationship,

you start wondering if there's something better, you know, as, as many, you know, we, people who have been in a monogamous relationship that ended, we've, we've, we've had those ceilings of wondering, like, could there be something better? You know, how do I explore that? And, you know, and I think a lot of people are going to incorrectly, you know, use these non-traditional relationships as a way to try to, like, vet out their options while, like, not losing what they currently have. And I think for those who do that, it's, it's going to be an absolute train wreck. And that's why it's going to, it's like, I think almost never really works because

you have to, it has, it only works with when the relationship is in fact healthy. And it's like, you, it's like, there has to be this commitment of like expectations are like, I'm happy. We're happy. And I think it only works with two people if they recognize that despite this love and this desire to be with one another, that is like red blooded humans. They're just like, we're attracted to other, we find other people also attractive, right? Like if you have that choice where, like, I always say, like, I choose to be with my partner. I'm not with my partner because like it's somehow preordained. It's like an active choice. It's not because I'm not

attracted to other anyone else. It's that I am most attracted to you, not only just physically, but emotionally and, you know, all those things. So I think it's just really a challenge to bring up. I don't think the way it was positioned in this article, I could just picture a lot of people broaching it as a trial to a different life. And I think if that's the case, it will not be. And I think that's important too, because what I got from the article,

and I can understand people seeing it as like, oh, like you said, now this is my time to explore other options while still having someone on the back burner. And I think the way that Tom wrote this article was so interesting because he said multiple times his super hot boyfriend or how, you know, how continue he's still so attracted to his partner. He loves being in a relationship with him. It's just this kind of like other hidden part of him saying, you know, I want to go out. I want to like kiss a stranger. I want to have still that part.

I feel like it only works if, like you have to be so confident in your partner's feelings towards you and vice versa. It's what stops you from like being so jealous that you lose your mind. It's like, you know, your partner's out on a date and they're being flirted with and maybe they find that person attractive.

And even if they find that person attractive or no matter what they do physically, you know that you're so confident in their feelings and love towards you that you know that that has nothing to do with that. And I think that's just such a unique place to be. But I think that's the only way to do what this person person this tom writer

is talking about should we get into chloe kardashian got some criticism for posting a photo of flowers that tristan sent her for her birthday and you could she i think she hid the tag and then she didn't realize that instagram had updated and it shows you the tag. What I'm not following. Under like their under her name it says like whenever you tag someone it'll have like a who you tagged name right there. Okay. So she might have like tagged him so that he got the notification

and then shrunk the tags that no one else saw that it was him. Gotcha. And then it still showed up and I don't think she realized that that was a thing. And why did she get criticism? Because he's cheated on her. Yeah, I think people were sort of like, oh, are you still,

are you getting drawn back into this toxic cycle type thing? But I could see from her standpoint, like if I were her and I were overthinking about this, I could see there a point of being like, well, if I'm posting everything people sent me and I don't post his, do I look petty? Even though it's like, no, you don't. You have every right to not engage with this man.

I feel like Chloe's in a no-win situation. It's still the father of her daughter. And I've only seen a couple episodes of the Kardashians, but the one I did see was Tristan and Chloe, like talking about co-parenting and like, no matter what happened, no matter what, like while they may not be in a romantic relationship,

he's still always going to be a part of the family. And then he cheated on her again. But they're not in a relationship. Or did they get back together? No, they were. When all that was happening, they were. And then it came out. She threw him a big birthday party.

And then it came out that a couple days later, he obviously slept with a girl because she became pregnant. His personal trainer, I think. She's like a fitness influencer. I don't know if she was training him. But he left the birthday, his birthday in like what, March? Flew to Texas and then slept with her a couple days later.

She got pregnant. She only found out because he wrote this statement. He didn't even tell her ahead of time. Statement for the lawyers, yeah. I mean, listen, if you're Chloe, it's not super smart on your heart to keep giving the guy statement he didn't even tell her ahead of time for the lawyers yeah i mean listen i you know if you're if you're chloe it's not super smart on your heart to like keep giving the guy a chance but i can only imagine the challenge of of having feelings for the you know father of your kids

and hoping to maybe make that work i don't know if she needs to put it on social media well i don't know yet yeah i know i get that she sounds like she made a mistake but like i don't know if like she needs like her fan base to like lecture her the only thing the only one she's hurting is herself is herself right like are we are are are people like mad or because she they're saying she's sending a bad example to her like fans of like taking back cheaters is like is that the i just think she she has a history and people insert themselves into the narrative she's had a history of very much forgiving him over time she's prioritized true she's tried to you know turn over a new leaf get back together with him

i don't think posting the flowers is a sign that she's necessarily like getting back together with him but i guess that's how people it seems like to me it seems like her fan base or the critics who are criticizing this are like the friends who you know have a friend right who are is dating the the toxic person who's been cheating on them. And we hate that for our friends. But like, you just got to be there for your friend and keep reminding them that they deserve better. And when they don't make the choices you want, you don't say I told you so or lecture them. You just keep reminding them they deserve something better and try to support them in their time of need. And I feel like this audience, instead of just like, you know,

trying to be supportive and reminding her that she deserves better are, are putting her down unnecessarily for simply just trying to like, you know, get her personal life and family life. Right. Again. Well, do I think she's making smart choices for herself? No,

but like who amongst us haven't tried to like, you know, fight for something that we know deep down wasn't right, but like our heart wanted what our heart wanted, you know, like being a good friend isn't saying I told you so it's just being there whenever your friends need you and trying to remind them I'll be there to help you pick your feet back up. I don't know. But I think Khloe is the most, in in my opinion self-aware of the kardashian sisters kardashian jenner sisters and so i feel like she knew what it would do i mean that's just it seems like she wanted people to know that or well i don't know everything the kardashians do you kind of have to take with a little bit of a grain of salt because they are

masters of marketing and they the whole family seems to understand the need and willingness to like cause drama that will like that will probably that will create criticism for them but they like understand the long game and the net positive element of like the criticism or not yeah the relevancy so like i feel like she might have just meant to put it on her close friends there is also the point of like obviously he's behaved in ways that have humiliated her and made her feel and look like really bad and so i think maybe there's also this part of it that's like, he's sending me all these flowers.

And like, even though you know it's still not the right answer, like there's still that little part of you that's like the ego that's like still a little bit engaged in the situation. And it also begs the question, like what do we think him sending these flowers is all about? Nothing.

Like just like an easy thing to do? Yes, it's a birthday. That's like what everyone at this level does, I feel like you should have seen Kim's table before she took her law exam. It was like covered with these giant floral arrangements. I feel like people just do that. They all get. Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, I don't know what it's like to be in a co-parenting situation, especially if there's not like new partners. Do you still like send a birthday present or a card to like your partner like say for mother's day you know like what say you met me and i had a kid i know where this is going and i hate it he's like so basically we have a kid and then i break up with you no how do you feel no let's say i had a kid when you met me i get a really really hot new girlfriend hotter than you let's say i like when we met i had a kid would it bother you that i would send like a mother's day card to my baby mama on mother's day you know that's a little bit of a sticky sitch i'll be honest like what if i was

i would have a lot of questions right naturally. I'd be like, you know, what's... Specifically Mother's Day. I think for a birthday and other stuff, it could be a little weird. Yeah, don't text your ex happy birthday, but maybe send your ex a Mother's Day card. Yeah. What? If she's the mother of your children, I don't know.

No, I think you just write a card from the kid and give it to them probably right okay yeah involve the kid with it well i think it depends on how civil things are because i do think i yeah and i agree that like i think a big part of the value is being a unified front for your kids and so i think it's like important that your kids see you acknowledging their mom in that way because i think that's a lot of the benefit of it is like like modeling respect and like conflict navigation so there's no we all agree there's no actual reason for tristan to be sending

her any type of romantic gift for mother's day or anything else given that they are not i don't think it's romantic though he sends chris jenner flowers too i mean listen i don't i don't get the whole kardashian like once you're in you're in like rule they have but like it's clearly it's a rule yeah well we're talking about them we're talking about them talking about sex do we want to talk about nipples or divorce all right natalie do you want to talk nipples or divorce nipples. Okay. Okay, so Florence Pugh. Nipples for 500, please. And it's double Jeopardy. Daily double.

Thank you. Florence Pugh posted a photo of her at the Valentino fashion show in Rome. Absolutely stunning, wearing a sheer pink dress. That displays her nipples. And people had some comments. There were a lot of people who wanted to weigh in about her body etc she kind of posted another instagram saying she knew that this would unfortunately probably drum up some controversy but that she's completely unapologetic about it

and it was just you know let's do nipple check-in like where are we at as a society with nipples cares yeah who cares what other people are doing? I don't feel like I'm allowed to have an opinion on this. Okay. I feel like it's definitely become a thing because I feel like as we've become more, like as people have pushed the envelope in terms of fashion and especially like at events of how much is revealed,

it has become part of a conversation. Like Miley Cyrus, I think, went on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon or something and wore like a jacket and didn't have a shirt on underneath but had to cover her nipple and like made a comment that oh well everything else can show but not the nipple or I think of like Cara Delevingne who was basically shirtless at the Met but had to do like pasties and it's like funny because everything else can be revealed except for like that tiny area. Your areola. Yeah. The tiny areola. I think it also aligns with people having problems

with mothers breastfeeding in public, which is another why the fuck do you care? Like I'm feeding my child. Yeah, it's like if you don't want to see it, just look the other way. Yeah. Or change the channel, I guess. You know, network television can have its network television type rules.

But, like, other than that, like, if it's not for you, just, there are so many options for content out there. If, like, if Florence Pugh's nipples are, like, bothering you. I don't. Scroll in, girly. Like, I mean, where did she show this at? Like, at like someone sort of like, it was a fashion show, right? Yeah. And she posted it on Instagram. So like, this is clearly like an adult event.

Like, we're not like worried about like corrupting the youth, you know, right? Like. Right. I mean, I don't think she's like flashing children. I don't think like parents, like this is not like parents being like, oh my God, no, my like my kids are going to see a nipple. I also think there's like a huge generational shift with the nipple. I think bra-wise, for sure.

I think underwire bras are a special occasion now. And I think bralettes are the new normal. I think the pandemic accelerated this. And I think it's always been a thing amongst Gen Z. And so I think there's naturally this like ever evolving like, can we can we chill out about this? And also we're now wearing undergarments. Where is the criticism coming from? Is it coming from like older, more conservative women or is it coming from men? in her follow-up post that she was responding to is specifically men commenting about her body and i think specifically it's like i don't want to platform this but i do want to disagree with it which is just that like i think men were one of the things she alluded to is that people were referring to her as like flat chested etc and kind of this inherent like misogyny of like if

you're going to show this like why don't you have the goods type thing? And I think her just like a big part of her sort of follow-up and like speaking out was just being like, I know exactly what I look like. I chose to do this. Please don't, like nobody asked. So stop talking. Time for texting office hours.

How's it going? Hey, Nick. My name is Catherine and I'm 22 years old. Catherine, how can we help? So whenever I first wrote in, I thought I would need help drafting a text to shoot my shot with a guy that had not responded to a text. But since then, things have progressed as of like Saturday night. Long story short, I just moved to a new city and we met on Hinge just to meet new people. And we found out that we went to the same college. And this was weird because the college is like eight hours away from where we live now.

And even weirder, we found out that his best friend is my best friend's brother. we found out that his best friend is my best friend's brother. And so that was the basis of us hanging out. We had that fall back on in our conversation. But we went on three dates or we just went out for drinks. I met some of his friends. I took your advice at first and I was just like, this could be just a new friend in a new city. But by the second date that we were hanging out, there were definitely more flirty vibes going on. The next weekend, I had a friend come in. She flew into town and we were going out. And so I decided I'm going to ask him to hang out. He's asked me to hang out three times. I asked him to come out and he said, yes, definitely. The time came around and he said he was caught up at work and he couldn't make it anymore. And that's a reoccurring theme in the story. He works a lot. Flash forward, like the next Wednesday,

he texted me and he asked me how my weekend was, if my friend had a good time. And we started a conversation and he told me that him and one of his friends, that's a girl, were talking about me that day. And he said that he was going out of town for the weekend, but I should text this girl's name to go out because she wanted to go out with me for some reason. And so I texted him and I said, yeah, give her my number. I'm down to go out. And then I asked him why he was going to this place that he was going. And that's whenever he never responded. So that's whenever I emailed in and was asking for help if I should text him again and shoot my shot, ask him to hang out. But then this past Saturday night, he asked me, I hadn't heard from him in

like three weeks, two or three weeks. And he asked me if I wanted to go grab a drink. And I immediately jumped on board. I was like, hell yes, let's do this. He made a whole plan. He said, be ready at eight. And then I was going to drive over to his part of the town and we were going to go out around there. So 8 o'clock comes around. I'm fully ready. My makeup is done, everything. And he texts me and he says, Hey, sorry, still caught up at work.

Let's do another night. And I was just really annoyed. What day of the week was this? This was a Saturday night. And he sends a text at 7.57 p.m. Yes. And he works at a golf course. So it makes sense, I guess. But who's golfing at eight o'clock at night is my question. And he told me that in the text, he said as he was texting me, he thought he was leaving work, but he got caught up.

But I just don't know. Does he run a pro shop does he like what does he do cards away what is his position um he's i don't know how to explain it but he's like the manager of like the maintaining the yard i guess okay better term okay so like someone scuffed up a couple of greens he would have been caught up at work and had to stay back to clean him up or something or put someone in charge of that let's just assume for the time being he's was in fact tied up at work unless are you doubting are you doubting that he's even being honest i don't know like a few of my friends were like that's kind of sketchy. It's a Saturday night. But whenever we were hanging out in person, the way he talked about it, he sounded like work is his life.

There was one time whenever he picked me up for our date and he was on the phone about a work call, which red flag, but it's kind of annoying. How old is this guy? He's 25. But that was saturday has he followed up since no um i responded and i said okay no worries um and he responded again and said sorry i'll make it up to you and he hasn't in fact made it made it up to you yet he has not no so i guess my question is like if he does text me to, like, make it up to me, quote unquote, do I even go for it? Like, should I just ditch this guy or should I play hard to get? I think if you reached, if he reached out, like, unfortunately, in this day and age, like, people are so passive in their dating dating approach so i mean have you do you have

you hung out during the week i would say if he texts you again and says hey sorry about last time like let's or do you want to get dinner tonight you can be like would love to but i don't really feel like getting stood up again yeah that's good i really feel like getting ditched again and then he can be like oh wait no no no my bad sorry wait i mean that's one approach definitely i think that's good what would you do well i mean just i don't know he could honestly be getting tied up at work if she just well that's the thing right like if he is a dedicated at this job and let's say he loves it has a passion for it like i don't know anything about you know more about golf courses than i do but maybe like something came up and as shitty as it is like that you got ready and had your makeup on if it was an actual reason, then you like.

But three minutes, the timing is the thing. What time does it get dark in where you live? What time does it get dark? It gets dark. Yeah. Like nine o'clock, nine,

15. What I'm saying is there's people like, they can't work in the dark. The sun's going down at eight o'clock. She has to decide whether she believes them or not. Regardless of whether it's true or not, it's the fact that he could have communicated a lot more proactively because I think it's a different kind of sting when you're

already ready for the date. Exactly. Like it's three minutes beforehand. Right. When were you supposed to get together? 8. And he texted you at 7.57. That's what I'm'm saying that's insane like he knew like he texted me i think first around like 6 30 ish like asking me if i wanted to hang out and so i

immediately got ready like he had to know i was getting ready and i was and at 757 he had to know i was fully ready i don't know because i had to draw I was going to be driving like 20 minutes to where he lives. You were supposed to be there at eight? No, he was going to, he was supposed to text me and tell me when I could head that way. Like whenever he left work and he could, I could go. Okay. But he said like around eight or something, right? As like kind of loose.

Do you think he's going to reach out? Well, I didn't think he would reach out after he didn't answer my text about asking him why he was going to the city. But he did. I don't know. I think he will. But I don't want to get my hopes up. You can say, for sure would love to, but let's out a way that prevents you from flaking on me. Call them out for the thing. You know what I'm saying? But I wouldn't just say, nah, I'm not interested in... No, I said would love to. Unless you're going to ditch me again.

I just don't feel like getting ditched again. I'm fine with... You didn't lead with the I love to. Yeah, I think you could throw in a little sass. Especially with a winky face. So that way it's playful and not passive oh that all depends on if you plan on ditching me like flaking on me again yeah i just don't like no one likes to be called a flake he's like right he didn't this isn't the first time right like did you have plans again, wasn't there another time where he? Yeah. So, whenever my friend came in town, I invited him.

Like, this was me reaching out to him to come out. And he had to work. I get. So. Like, yeah, I'd just be like, well, when do you have a school night? Or when's not a school night or a work night or something? I don't know. Yeah.

Okay. There's ways that you can say it playfully, but also yeah let's not let him know you are interested in this game of yeah you let him know you're interested but like you also like respect yourself not to like keep doing this you can literally know that he's being inconsiderate while still like showing an interest and like hoping that this is not who he is okay yeah you see i just didn't want to that was my dilemma is i just didn't want to seem too available whenever he came around i don't worry about being too available it's just more it's like how do you like i you know the whole not worrying if you like overthinking if you're available like i think it's fine if you say you like someone, there's a difference between being available and

being like, okay. With someone not being like mindful of your time. It's really productive when you kind of like challenge a guy's like, no guy wants to like, no one in general, like wants to be like thought of as unreliable or flaky. Maybe it's just like, thank God you're not like this at work because you would be fired or something like that. Yeah, that's good. He's not flaky to his job. Yeah, I don't know. I also, though, wouldn't,

if he does reach out to you and you are doing something else, I wouldn't blow off what you're doing to jump to hang out with him. I would just be honest and be like, no, I wouldn't like blow off what you're doing to jump to hang out with him. Like I would just be honest, like, no, I'm actually like busy. I'm doing something else. But like, let's try for tomorrow or something.

You know, like I wouldn't. I've done that before where like I've made plans with a girlfriend and then a guy texts me and he's like, hey, do you want to get together? And I'll text my best friend and be like, hey, sorry, like he reached out. If he reaches out to you and asks you. Yeah. If he reaches out to you,

if he reaches out to you, she's absolutely right. If she reaches out to you and ask you to hang out day of hard, no. Yeah. Okay. Be like, no,

no. And then that's where you can throw in a joke. Be like, I'd love to get together sometime, but like, you don't have a great track record and follow through the day of like, you need to plan some things and let's like do it in a, like let's plan on a day

where maybe like you're not working so you don't flake on me again. Okay. And then that's way that like, then you can throw in a little bit of sass. Like you're challenging them to like step up and be like a reliable person. Right.

And then, yeah, hit them with the, I have plans tonight. Either way, I don't think it's in your best interest because like, you're not very reliable when making plans the day of. That's a little much. Yeah. I don't know.

Calling a guy not reliable, like, he will want to prove that he is. Yeah. You're not the most reliable making plans a day of. Definitely not. He's definitely not. But yeah, I like that approach because I'm not a big fan of playing hard to get.

I just feel like it's playing games. Yeah. I feel like that's a perfect end of the plane. Yeah. Call him out on his behavior. Okay. I can definitely do that. Because Amanda's right.

Like 757, definitely do that. Because Amanda's right. Like, 7.57, like, he couldn't, he found that, like, when he would,

then he was going to be, what, how late? 30 minutes? Yeah, he, he didn't tell me, like,

how late he would be, but he would just, just a general, like, I'll text you in the head this way. So, I was already waiting for him. Already off to a bad start. Exactly. Exactly. Because that was already off to a bad start. Exactly.

Exactly. Because that was already a sticky situation. You're just waiting for someone to text you to leave. I've been there too. Yes.

Yeah. And I just felt like a damsel in distress just sitting on my couch. Like, okay, well, what do I do now? Like, I'm all dressed up and then,

but yeah. He absolutely only gets one last shot, by the way. I was going to ask that. I mean, I was already thinking that, but yeah, I think gets one last shot by the way i was gonna ask that i mean i was already thinking that but yeah i think a third shot's enough for sure three strikes and you're out all right you got your answer okay well thank you so much this is so helpful all right take care good luck thank you okay and then we also have some like more rapid fire questions that got sent in that might be fun.

This one is about chewing. If anyone would like to know more, shall we jump into it? That is my life listening to Nick chew. Ouch. All right. Hi, Nick. Desperately need help during texting office hours. My friend went on five or six dates with a guy and really liked him, but he has the syndrome where you don't like chewing,

and after hearing her eat something alone, he ghosted her. It was our theory that he got scared of her chewing and dipped. Three months have gone by, and he called and left a two-minute voicemail apologizing and said he was working through things and wasn't ready for a relationship. My friend still has a mini crush on him and wants to be breezy and respond, but isn't sure what to say. Can y'all help her craft something to be casual, but potentially see where things go? I have too many follow-up questions here. Like, how do they know it was because of the chewing? Right? Because this two-minute voicemail about, like, needing to work on himself doesn't seem like it was about chewing.

But what if he's working on his fear of chewing? He could be working on his fear of chewing. Maybe that's what he's working through. So he called and he left a two minute voicemail apologizing. Three months later. Three months later. And she wants to like respond to this voicemail? That's like easy breezy, potentially see where it goes.

Yeah, like reinitiate contact. But he's like,'s he's done that so like she just has to respond yeah apologizing but he also apologizing i hope i think she like gets a pack of big league chew and just puts a bunch of gum in her mouth and calls him back and just you know but if he also says he's working through things and not ready for a relationship, do we even need to reach out? Does he still not? It's been three months.

I feel like it takes a lot longer to work through a chewing fear than three months. It is a good sign that he thought of her after three months, that it's been weighing on him to the degree that after three months he would reach out with his voicemail. I wouldn't give him too much credit.

He's still, like, ghosted yeah not not not positive i would call him back and say thank you for apologizing i hope working on yourself goes great ttyl well if she's not interested in going out with him why why why follow up because she says she does she wants to have a crush on him yeah no i know but you you said you your advice was to like talk to you because like obviously he's still working on himself and if he still has this fear like she's still obviously going to chew around him so like he needs to continue to work on himself and once that work is done well we don't know if it's actually that was the issue i it sounds like her and her girlfriend sat down and went like when you get

ghosted you don't know why so you just guess you're like how can someone just disappear on me and they came up with i chewed so like i'm assuming that's not the actual reason and the reason is he just you know i'm almost certain he just likes someone else more and instead of like having the guts to tell her he just peaced out and he thinks him saying i'm working on myself sounds better than i chose someone else over you i'd be willing to bet you don't know that it's someone else just like i don't know don't know that it's someone else. I don't know. You don't know that it's the chewing. I just don't think it's very common for anyone, especially young men,

to be so immature that they randomly flake and then come back and leave this two-minute voicemail owning up to their needing to work on themselves and being ready for a relationship i think he probably was on a dating app had a couple matches and he liked one better girl better than her and this is kind of a bullshit story well i'm also now that i'm looking at this myself i'm a little confused because it says after five to six dates with him. Yeah.

So what were you doing on the five dates that didn't involve chewing? Like why on the sixth date did you finally have a meal with him? It's not that she heard you chewing. I wonder if it was the alone element or like before they'd been together. Hearing her eat something alone. Which is still. So like the poor girl just got hungry and reached for a snack.

Poor babe got hungry and she got ghosted. I don't think it's the chewing. And as far as what she should reach out to, if she really wants to hang out with him, just reply to him and say... Hey, thanks for the voicemail. Want to grab a coffee? And then ask more questions.

Is she going to grab a coffee and an apple? And a bagel? I don't think this is her guy. That's my two cents. But if she, like, yeah, just follow up with them and say, let's get together. Yeah, I would say, thanks for the voicemail. Let me know if you want to grab a drink. Hey, stranger.

Like, nice to hear from you. Glad to hear you're alive. You like throwing in some sass. I do. That's because when you get ghosted or when someone doesn't respond, like, you deserve some sass. You don't deserve just a purely sweet,

innocent text back. Well, I think he deserves not to have a second chance with her, but she seems to... She still has a mini crush. And that's what I'm saying. It's like, if you're willing to forgive this person for doing this,

then like, you know, like it's like when you get cheated on. Like no one's saying get back to this person. But if you're going to choose to forgive someone, you don't like, it's not helping the reconnection and the building of like this broken relationship by like throwing in jabs. But like one little one at the beginning, you had me throw in a jab when a guy ghosted me on a dating app and then came back up three months later you had me say something along

lines of like wow like i think if she's gonna give him a hard time she does it in person so does she just say like want to grab coffee this week like wow surprised to hear from you i'm glad you're working like sounds like you've really made some. Thanks for apologizing. Yeah. And then I would have her say, I am free. Pick one day that she's free and give him one window.

So I would say something like this. Thanks for reaching out. Glad to hear you're working on yourself. I'm available Thursday. If you want to grab coffee. If you want to grab coffee

and give him one option like i give him a small window to make to like shift his plans to see you i like that but it has to be enough time in advance to where he can switch his way tomorrow give him like a three like if it's monday say thursday or friday or whatever give him like a three-day lead time and but give him one specific date in which you're available and that's it and see if he's willing to like go out of his way if he's not like and again if he's just like and don't make it at like two in the afternoon where you might have a work you know unless he has a very specific reason why like oh i got a softball game or I guess like, or, or,

but it was like, Oh, I have other plans. Other plans aren't like, aren't good enough. He has to have like a very specific reason why he can't make that one window and other plans. Aren't it? That's my two cents.

Well, I think that's, uh, I think that's it. Thanks for, uh, thanks for bearing with us with us, dear listener, as we try to muscle through this week while we are traveling international.

Nick, will you do your outro in a British accent? Nick and Natalie, will you take a close look? Thank you so much for listening, babe. It was absolutely lovely to chat with you. Back next week in studio, we have Blake Moynes doing the recap for our bachelor recap and we have jeff perloff from the new hit show the one that got away uh to join us on going deeper big week ahead next week also as always you're asking on mondays we thank you for listening

subscribe tell your friends all that fun stuff babe thanks for being with us this week happy anniversary happy anniversary absolutely Allie and Amanda great work as always love you girls

thanks for keeping the fort down happy anniversary oh thank you it's not our anniversary but we'll just take it I mean everything's technically an anniversary

that's true it's just not a big one day bye Everything's technically an anniversary. That's true. It's just not a big one. Day. Bye.