The Viall Files - E458 Bachelorette Recap w/ Dave Holmes

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelorette Recap Edition! Today we are back with another episode, joined by actor, writer, host, and Bachelor superfan, Dave Holmes! On this episode we kick things off by digging into some tea from Bachelor Nation. We react to Michelle Young saying she’s happier since the breakup in her last Instagram post, the Madison Prewett proposal where she was told it would happen 30 minutes before, a recent interview where in reaction to the new Bachelorette format Gabby said that she wouldn’t let anyone pit her against Rachel, and updates on Aaron Rodgers and his family. We then get into reacting to the episode itself, picking up from last week’s cliffhanger of Logan, how Logan has proved he’s on the show for the right reasons, and how Nate seems like the right choice for the next Bachelor. We also talk about how Rachel has had a rough episode with canceling the group date, how she’s making the same mistakes that Clayton made, and how the two Bachelorettes handle rejection and disappointment differently. We also talk about the guys that are setting themselves up for heartbreak, who is the most divisive contestant, and how they’re going to handle hometowns.  “She’s making the same mistakes Clayton did.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Caraway: Visit http://www.Carawayhome.com/VIALL to take advantage of this limited-time offer for 10% off your next purchase or use code VIALL at checkout. Caraway. Non-Toxic cookware made modern. Firstleaf: Go to http://www.TryFirstleaf.com/VIALL to sign up today and you’ll get your first 6 bottles for $39.95 plus free shipping.  Wondery: Listen to EVEN THE RICH on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @daveholmes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV. What's going on, everybody?

Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the Vall Files Bachelorette Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Ali and Amanda, and the wonderful Dave Holmes. Hello. How are you? Hello, Nick Viall. Hi. We now know. Yeah.

America now knows via the New York Times. Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. A sit down with the great Anna Peel. Yeah. That's huge. You know Anna.

Of course I know Anna. Yeah. She's very, very gracious. She's great. She's smart Peel. Yeah. That's huge. You know Anna. Of course I know Anna. She was very, very gracious. She's great. She's smart. Very. Yeah. Like she could wreck you and you wouldn't even know.

You know what I mean? Like she's very sharp, but she didn't. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's because she liked my pizza.

Okay, there you go. Goes a long way. Did you give her the Detroit style pizza? That place? No, Prince Street? You mean? No, I made pizza that place no prince street you mean no i made i made pizza oh well i mean i okay i assembled you're about to walk it back well i made the sauce

cindy made the pizza no i i make a good pizza at what point is it like you make something versus prepare something yeah yeah it's tough i think if you get out a cutting board well yeah maybe you made it fresh if there's a fresh vegetable. I had to dice the onions and peppers and prepare the sausage. And I made the homemade sauce. That is not nothing. Was a pizza stone involved? No.

Okay. So now we're back a step. I didn't make the dough. I didn't make the dough. Back two steps. Yeah. That feels like too much. To make dough, that's too much effort.

Yeah. Anyway. If you're surprised by Dave here, I know he was supposed to be here next week at Chinga Gutu. Unfortunately, he had some travel complications. Which is relatable.

America's having travel complications. Are we ever. Dave stepped in. Yep. I think your third or fourth time. I don't know. Yeah, something like that.

Either way, the people love you. Oh, good. Thanks. That's good to hear. Yeah, you hit me last night. We had people over to the pool yesterday and had a few beers. And I was like, yeah.

And then this morning I was like, oh, I have to go to Van Nuys. Oh, yeah. But you know what? That's me every Monday. I'm always up here. It is a good episode to talk about. It's a good episode to talk about. Also, Rachel Bilson, who was supposed to be on Going Deeper tomorrow, as we told you.

Also, she booked some show or something, so she had to reschedule. Wells Adams is taking her place. What a nice little... What a week for the understudies. They're really just shining. I mean, I gotta say...

As with Broadway, the swings. Yeah. The swings. Swing nation. Dominating. Some pretty good replacements. Anyway, we have a lot

to get into should we just start with what's anything going on bachelor nation tea yes um so not a ton but a little something to dive into i thought it was interesting michelle young recently posted a few photos on instagram and the caption was just the word happier okay great okay this is about two months after splitting from Nate. On a road to recovery. Yeah, so some Bachelor Nation people were in the comments, you know, showing their support,

but I just thought it was an interesting caption to choose after a very public breakup. Well, I think, yeah, I mean, I think it's good. You know, you can be sad for a while, and two months, she's just letting people know that she's on the mend. Everybody's young and resilient yeah right i love all the various like genres of post breakup instagram captions there's like you can get you have your quotes you have your vague like word to three words that are somehow like very powerful and informative when vanessa and i broke up i

posted a like a cryptic photo of a lake because it was like, I'm supposed to look sad. So real life, you're like, I'm supposed to cry. So like, I guess I'll just post something like this. You don't. Yeah. But to your point, you don't really know what to post because, you know, there's a lot of eyes on you and how you're supposed to think or feel. Oh, my God.

The pressure. Can't imagine. So, yeah, I don't know. I have some Bachelor Nation tea. Joe Amabile ate some stuff and it was pretty good. That's on his Instagram. That's literally his entire Instagram. Piping hot.

Yeah, it's him just like eating stuff and he's like, yeah, it's pretty good. And it's riveting every single time. I love that. So that's what's going on with Joe. We love that. He knows what works. He's running with it. He has a delicious sauce company.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it's good. Tomato sauce, wonderful. You've had it? I have. Used it on your pizza? I have. yeah he's running with it he has a delicious sauce company yeah i'm sure it's good tomato sauce wonderful you've had it i have used it on your pizza i have was that the key to success with the interview i made my own that day but yeah all right you know like i feel like for the interview for the new york times you're like well i'm making joe using joe's sauce yeah this whole interview has been sponsored by bachelor Influencers. Use my code. Fantastic. So you made the sauce.

So we're talking fresh tomatoes. Fresh tomatoes out of a can. Out of a can. It's not nothing. Well, they're peeled whole tomatoes. No, I didn't pluck them from my garden. He doesn't even have a tomato bush. How's your lemon tree?

It's all right. Yeah. They haven't ripened yet. They look like limes at the moment. All right. Well, They haven't ripened yet. They're still, they look like limes at the moment. Okay, great. Well, speaking of sponsorships and posts,

Maddie Pruitt got engaged. Okay. Congratulations, Maddie. She's been dating, you know, her now fiance for nine months. He is the son

of a billionaire. Oh, wow. So she's set for life. Well done. But they did a whole kind of like people magazine spread. So there was a lot of cameras. There was video.

There was photos. It was a lot of camera angles. And a lot of people were talking about the staging of it all, of there was no way this was a surprise. And so it's been revealed that actually she was in Florida on a girl's trip. She had no idea he was in the state, but she had this dress already like picked out. She bought this dress and said i want

to get engaged in this dress like traveled with it no non-stop i don't think so because she was there on her own and i'm pretty sure she's always wearing it under her clothes 30 minutes you know before the proposal i'm pretty sure her mom and her sister like showed up with the dress and they were like you're getting engaged okay interesting so Interesting. So they said you're going to get engaged in 30 minutes. Okay. Little touch up and then she could walk out to the beach. How would you ladies like to get proposed to? Like, I mean, there's a lot of different preferences.

You know, some people want to surprise their other people. You're like, you know, it's coming. Do you want to be told that you're about to get engaged and then get engaged? We live in a time where you get to document things.'ll always have that document things i said previously on the record that i would like to get proposed to at a trader joe's upon further reflection i don't know that i stand by that in its totality no you where would you park you literally like there's no point i would get rear-ended yeah you would yeah you, you'd get sideswiped at least. The Silver Lake Trader Joe's, God help you.

No. It is illegal in the state of California to open a Trader Joe's with a good parking lot. You can't do it. It's a nightmare. It's an absolute nightmare. Consistently. 100% of the time. And that, and I will say that is a countrywide policy. All of the Trader Joe's in the greater Boston area have atrocious parking lots trying to incite violence.

Having said this, there's a new one at the NoHo West. You know, like that new sort of Grove Americana thing in the valley that they were cutting the ribbon like, March 2020! And like, it just it's like slowly opened over the last couple years. There's a Trader Joe's in there

but because it's like a mall kind of, there is actually slightly better. Ample parking. Well, Nick doesn't like Trader Joe's. I don't shop there. I don't like have a problem with it, but. You've never tried. I've been to plenty. I've been to Trader Joe's five or six times.

Okay. You'll fall in love with a product at Trader Joe's and then they'll stop making it. Trader Joe's will break your heart. They'll say this was a seasonal item and our seasons last two to four weeks. Yes. And you're done. And now you're going to come forever hoping you'll find it. This is not for me.

They do. They have a good wine program. Wine program? The fuck am I? But like they, they, because they deal in cash, they have like very inexpensive good wines. What do you mean they deal in cash? They like, they, they don't do it on credit.

So if they buy a bunch of cases of wine, they do it in cash. So it's able to lower the price and they pass the savings on to you. You can get a good $5 bottle of wine at Trader Joe's. Genuinely. Really good wine section.

Interesting. Pass the savings on. I love it. How do you want to get proposed to, Allie? Probably not in a Trader Joe's, if I'm being honest. But do you, I guess the big question is,

do you want the surprise spoiled so that you can have a bachelor documented type of engagement? So I was thinking, and I think I have a workaround of a way to accomplish both. Do you have a specific dress? No.

I don't think, I'm not like to that level, but I think one of my best friends out here is like an amazing photographer and videographer so if he wanted to like work something we could like be like oh we're like gonna go take pictures like we've done before so like you hire a cameraman and be like this is gonna happen here just yeah this is our this is my mark this is i'm gonna land on the spot right you know. And then you film it.

That was what my cousin did. She's getting married at the end of this month. And she, at like our childhood, tiny little beach in Cape Cod, Massachusetts, her fiance proposed to her there and had one of her uncles is like an amazing professional photographer. And so he was like perched like the paps in the bushes. And so it was a great combination of like sentimental, really like personalized, private. But then also there are these like stunning photos from the beach and the whole family was waiting at the house after. And did she know to look extra good?

That's a good question. Because I think about what Natalie said is very true. The nails. It's all about the nails. You've got to have good nails if you're getting proposed to. Oh, of course. Yeah. For the ring photos.

Dave, do you have a preference on how you'd like to be proposed to? I don't want to be proposed to. I mean, I'm in a 17-year relationship. We just kind of don't want to get married. Or if we do, it'll just be like going to City Hall. We're domestic partners. We're like insurance and whatever. I don't think so.

Okay. You? How would I like to be proposed to? I'm more of a low-key kind of person. I think Natalie would like some documentation. Like maybe someone in the trees. But I'm definitely... I want an element of surprise and authenticity to my proposal. Or to be proposed to. Depending on who gets on down on one knee, you know?

I think there are some things that, like, should remain private or can remain private and special. You know what I mean? Like, you can have a nice moment away from Instagram, away from, like, a professional photographer. Just have a thing that's just the two of you. And remember, the only you can share, you know um yeah so i guess yeah okay private is the key one of the coolest things i have ever seen a really good friend of mine got married a few years ago and he and his now wife um like wrote their vows they had them on on pieces of paper and they gave them to each other and read them silently and then just like

put them back in their pocket and got married. So it was like, you know, they wrote their own vows and it was like very sweet and personal but we will never know

what was said. It was just for the two of them. I like that. It was really cool. I like that. I like that a lot. Well, congratulations to Maddie

and her fiance. What's his name? Do we know? Billionaire, boy-lionaire, big billionaire. Mr. Pruitt. Yes. Future Mr. Pruitt. Well, yeah, they probably don't. I don't know. we know billionaire billionaire billionaire mr pruitt yes future mr pruitt well yeah they probably don't i don't i think they're more of the traditional sense but either way congratulations

to the both of them a lifetime of happiness we wish them yeah when you have the right piece on top of your stove it's never moving it's domestic's classy. I'm not a domestic person, but it gives the impression that you cook a lot. Yeah. Well, you too can look more impressive than you actually are with Caraway. Well, I've been a Caraway customer ever since I've been a homeowner. I needed to up my game when I bought a home, and I did that with Caraway. Whether it's their bakeware or their pots and pans, the Caraway products are made without any toxic materials like PFAs, PTFEs, toxic stuff, chemicals. If you can't pronounce it, it shouldn't be in your body.

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Cookies, really. I don't. Natalie's the baker in the family. But does she compliment the bakeware set with an assortment of non-toxic baking essentials. What do you like to bake? Cookies, really. Yeah. I don't, Natalie's the baker in the family. But does she compliment the bakeware? I feel like the baking's only as good as the bakeware. The bakeware compliments her. Yeah. But if she were to like bake it on a slab of some other metal.

Her cookies got better after Caraway showed up. Yeah, thank you. Visit CarawayHome.com slash V-I-A-L-L to take advantage of this limited time offer for 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive to our listeners. So visit carawayhome.com slash V-I-A-L-L or use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. Caraway non-toxic cookware made modern. Guys, there are a few things I like more than quizzes, wine, and stranger's approval. And First Leaf really makes me feel like I've checked all those boxes.

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Try firstleaf.com slash V-I-A-L-L. The best part is if you're not happy with a wine you receive, Firstleaf will credit you for another one. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Well, Gabby and Rachel did a little interview. Someone was talking or asking them about the double lead format and the criticism that some people have been having about hitting them against each other or it's just such a hard format for them to be successful in.

And Gabby kind of had an interesting response. She said, I know these last couple of episodes have been hard for people, but what you're not seeing is the balance or else we wouldn't be here. We don't want to keep torturing ourselves. It is worth it. And there are a lot of good moments. I think Rachel and I would have to consent if we were being pitted against each other. We'd have to participate in some way. I liked that quote of Gabby's. I feel like it ties in nicely to this episode because there's obviously been a lot of discussion about like how this is all played out and and just the the format

of having two bachelorettes is just naturally going to have people have different preferences sure and and comparison is going to happen it's natural natural. But I love that Gabby doesn't seem to be playing into this narrative. I think that Gabby is kind of taking back power by saying, well, listen, this is happening, but she's not buying into this narrative that I think a lot of fans are seeing because it's just more like, I don't think it's happening because we're not allowing it to happen,

which I quite like right even though this episode was a lot of rachel yeah not seeming to to subscribe to that mentality of of letting the environment get to her yeah well gabby's coming off looking a little better so I think it's probably easier for her to say like oh no it's not like a competition but like it's there and I don't know whether that's editing tricks or whatever but especially in this when you say better how do you mean like there are more like the men are slightly more interested in her even though it's not officially like uh do you think that it's i think it's edited to look that way rachel has a lot of men absolutely absolutely but it does also seem like the one

most of the ones who have backed out or said i can't have gone the other way and whether that's the truth i don't know that's like it's just interesting my perception was more they both have been rejected right but i feel like r Rachel's making a bigger deal of it. And then we're therefore noticing it more. That could be. That could be. Is it Anna Faris that she sounds like? It's driving me crazy.

Okay. Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like every time she talks for an extended period of time, I'm like, who are you? Who are you? And it's a specific Anna Faris role. Yeah.

I feel like kind of house bunny. Yeah. Okay why I can't. Is it like the house bunny? Yeah. There we go. Is that it for the tea? Are we just getting into the episode now? Kind of. I mean, something to maybe note, Aaron Rodgers did a little podcast interview. And they asked him about, you know, his family.

We know they're estranged. We know Jordan Jojo just got married. Everyone was like, will he be there? Will he not? And if there's any hope of reconciliation. And he said, I do believe in healing. i believe in the possibility of reconciliation at some point but it's a different journey for all of us and to judge on the outside about what should be or what it should look like or who's wrong and who's right it's just a game i've never wanted to play and

still don't want to play wow that's a lot of words that don't say anything. Correct. Yeah. It's as a massive Packer fan, I'll obviously invest in the story as it relates to also my connection with Bachelor Nation. But as someone who has a large family who, which includes a lot of personalities and, and not everyone is always getting along. Right. And not everyone always quite honestly likes the company of other people.

They're still family yeah and i've always been fascinated by this it's this refusal to have any interaction yeah i don't know so did he not go to the wedding did not we haven't seen any proof of him being there but he okay i'm just fascinated by the fact that he can say well maybe there'll be reconciliation in the future once you get to that point why don't you just like, aren't you just being stubborn at that point? And that we've heard that Aaron Rodgers is an incredibly stubborn sentence way. We've heard that.

But if you can be like, yeah, someday we will. Why not now? What's the time between saying that and actually picking up the phone and saying, hey, there's a long way we have to go to getting back to where we were. However, like, I love you. And maybe, I don't know, like, here's a Christmas way we have to go to getting back to where we were. However, like I love you and maybe, I don't know, like here's a Christmas card or something. And he said some really gracious things about his dad,

right, which is how his dad obviously gave up a lot of, at some point of his life for his kids, which, you know, for me, like when I, you know, all my siblings, you know, we all have different childhoods and different perceptions of our childhoods and it relates to our parents. But I always kind of emphasize the fact to like just what my parents gave up to for all of us. And I guess I have a hard time reconciling those facts with whatever disappointment like

I might feel or my siblings might feel or Aaron Rodger might feel to their parents, sort of like maybe them saying something truly hurtful or cruel. I have a hard time reconciling with like not having them being your part of your life at some point. But he is, as Mark Murphy, the president of the Green Bay Packers said, Aaron Rodgers is a complicated fella. There we go. And on that note. As long as he can throw the football, I'm fine. Is he still with shayleen woodley no no no that's right i was right he's with some like like burning man person i was

so close to going to burning man this year except that i didn't like have a ticket or an rv or like truly any way to get there or anywhere to stay but it was it was uh i'm in sort of with a camp a co-worker of mine has like a big camp and he's like been putting pressure on forever. And it was like, this was almost the year. Unfortunately, I have to work. And also I don't have a ticket, but maybe next year. I don't know. It's one of those things that's kind of-

Is it on your bucket list? It's on the bucket list. It's not going to get any easier next year, but like, I don't know. I'm curious, but I feel like despite, I mean, a lot of people I know who have gone, like we'll call it life-changing. Yeah, sure. I don't know. I'm curious, but I feel like despite, I mean, a lot of people I know who have gone, we'll call it life-changing. Yeah, sure.

I don't know. I'm a skeptic. Yeah. And if I will, who knows? Maybe. I feel like if I went, I would certainly become one of the people who's obsessed with it. Totally. I'm like, I don't want to.

Totally. I know. I'm susceptible to that. I love community. Yeah. I love psychedelics. Yeah. I'm like Googling what is burning man it's a music festival

it's like it's a culture it's yeah it's like an art festival yeah it's it's a bunch of people go out to like the middle of nowhere in nevada like three hours outside of reno and and they create a city and it's and you um like you provide a service while you're there and by doing that you then get everything it's it's like a barter system so i think this camp was like in the mornings handing out uh iced coffee to people and so for that then you get to take part in whatever everybody else is doing there's no like money it's just all like it's it's it's trading but it's also incredible like art installations and and i'm sure there's like djs and stuff and it's you know uh i think in a time of monkey pox it's probably unwise to be oh my god because you know there's some because nudity i would say is also a

huge facet of burning man yeah and like of of expression freedom of sexuality and yes no judgment up in sure in Rock City or something yeah

the Playa you got a Playa name somebody like renames you and you get a new name while you're there yeah wow

do you do you know what your Playa name would be I mean I won't know until I get there they give you the name they give you the name interesting yeah

all right well let's get into it all right well we uh we have the episode opening up with logan basically right right we ended on the logan cliffhanger of him accepting rachel's rose that was clearly meant to set the stage for the major plot of this episode sure and of course we start with rachel saying like how confident she feels in the guys and them being there for her for us only to watch it come crashing down. Oh, boy. Pride goes before the fall, right? Yeah. Not a mention of Hayden, by the way.

He's just gone. Gone. Bye. Yeah, we've moved on. As someone who's been reluctant to like Logan, and whether it's the music or the edit or his face, maybe it's just... The haircut.

Yeah. But he's been someone i've been like like i'm open to not liking this guy you know but i gotta say i don't know how people are going to respond via twitter because we're recording this ahead of time but how could he have handled it better right and i don't think here's one thing i can say with certainty that out of all these guys logan has proved to me at least that he is in fact there for the right reasons. Because in a world where now this bachelor world is a business, in a sense, you're showing up, you got all these like perceived playbooks of opportunity and everyone's just going in,

in this wanting to look good, very risk averse, playing the game, saying nice things. In no world where Logan thought, this is how I'm going to be loved by Bachelor Nation. I'm going to potentially look like a fuck boy or flip flop. I could hurt both of these women, if not one of these women. This was not an easy move. He was clearly at least following his heart because he could have just as easily been like, all right, I'm not Rachel's favorite. I'm not Gary. I'm just gonna stay as long as I can

and go home and play the game and try to get to top four. How long of a time has it been? Like since he became like team Rachel. I don't, like in episode time, it's been a couple of weeks, but I don't know. Well, it's been a couple of weeks but i don't i don't know well every every week is usually four days okay so uh not long okay so he hasn't had a lot

of this you know rachel like yeah to me i felt like rachel was kind of the villain of this episode yeah yeah um explain actually i would say maybe the self-assigned victim of the episode. I think the issue is maybe- I use villain loosely in the sense that it's The Bachelor. It's the person who could have, should have handled the situation differently. Right. Right. You know?

Right to self-pity. Cancel the date. Yeah, we'll get into that. But we've had to watch Gabby, because of how the show works, be forced on all these one-on-one dates to open up and talk about this clearly very sensitive topic, which is her relationship with her mother, or lack thereof, which clearly is painful for her to talk about, very vulnerable. And the show does this thing where if you have a wound,

they like to make sure that you are exposing it to America every week. And as someone, it gets exhausting. And Gabby is forced to do this. And she's handling herself wonderfully. And Rachel's having a hard time being rejected by her fourth fourth fifth sixth and seventh options you know guys who like i don't think she is all that interested in logan maybe

more than some of the other guys but like during the rose ceremony from hell or whatever or where she was getting rejected i get it sucks to get rejected i i understand it's not fun but like you know it was meatball or whatever i don't know if it wasn't meatball. I was on team Rachel or I forgot, but yeah, it was just a lot of guys that, you know, I don't think she probably even knew their names or all that curious. And it's,

it just seems like, I think she's making the same mistake Clayton made. It's a mistake that many of these have made. Clayton made the mistake of taking being the bachelor too literally in the sense that if you're the lead, it's just like you feel like you're kind of, you know, not the equal of the people you're trying to fall in love with.

Where Clayton made the mistake of focusing on his love story and not thinking about like, my love story only matters as it relates to the people I'm trying to fall in love with and like they're my equal. And so like Clayton's is more like to the people I'm trying to fall in love with. And they're my equal. And so Clayton's is more like, no, I'm the bachelor. I get to sleep with whoever I want. I can say who I love you to whoever I want in the moment.

I'm just in the moment. And I feel like for different reasons, Rachel, the same way, is this, well, I'm the bachelorette. No one can not like me the most. Where she's taking the rejection almost too much to heart and not thinking, well, hey, love is a two way street. Of course, I'm also I just I accepted this role with another bachelorette, Gabby. Of course, some men are going to be into her. It's human nature.

Like not everyone's going to be into me. And so you would think she would have that perspective. But like, I think, you know, if you've watched this show and you, you see how the, the leads are portrayed and how they're above it. And if you have this sense of this expectation that you are on a different playing field, then that rejection is going to hit a little harder than it might otherwise would. And I feel like she's making those same mistakes that Clayton made. Or are you just thinking about how it's going to look on TV?

Yeah, sure. Yeah. That too. too. Yeah. Because being rejected is terrible. Being rejected on television is awful. You see that hurt. I mean, you kind of see it in her eyes. She's essentially almost saying, how is this going to look on TV? Yeah. That's, I think, where the tears come. It's just like, oh God, this is going to look awful. Yeah, because you've given up control to some editors who you will never meet, probably. Got a new fun Wondery Even the Rich podcast for you guys to listen to. Even the Rich, just a reminder, is a podcast from Wondery. It tells you jaw-dropping stories about the tumultuous lives of the world's elite. From the greatest family dynasties to pop culture superstars, having unimaginable wealth

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and it's so easy to become really fixated on your own PR and the terrible irony of it is that in being so worried about how you come off to other people, you come off a lot worse because you're doing all this mental math. And like you've got the confusing, upsetting feelings in conjunction with the way you're trying to curate the version of you dealing with those. And it's just like it's a lot to handle at once. And like I think it's really hard to walk out of that and look the way you want to look. Yeah, it's like, yeah, we all empathize with being rejected. We get that. But it's just like at some point, I would just love Rachel to just like say, you know, I got some great guys. I've had some fantastic dates. I mean, from where I stand, from what I'm watching,

you know, listen, this show is about finding one, right? And it's about finding the strongest connection. And maybe overall, I mean, I haven't done the count but maybe gabby has more guys into her than rachel but i think rachel has the stronger connections at least from what we've seen right like her and tino fast consistent ones of like tyler and tino and aven have all been people who have made it before there was even like just yeah like whisperings of you have to choose like she's had people who are like i I, it is no doubt in my mind, I'm here for you from very early on and provided the affirmation. And it's just like, yeah.

I think what we're seeing is even when she has these moments, we saw at the beginning of this episode, her saying she feels really confident in the guys that are there for her. The second that the Logan of it all happened, she forgot about that. We watched that with, she had the great date with Tino and then suddenly she brings her guys to the group date and they don't look at her

and suddenly she forgets the good and is weighing the negative way more than the good, I think at this point. Yeah, but like today's point or accommodate, you know, I think she's focused on the wrong things. And is it more the perception

of how she comes across i mean she even said like to to gabby i'm kind of being fascinated by this like they clearly it's clearly a priority for both these women to come across as friends and to be friends with one another but there are these moments and the first time we saw of them like not you can tell they're not on the same page but they're like really trying to they're hyper focused on on being a united front so like the first time we saw it was when they were basically talking about the rejection of it all gabby got rejected by uh hayden and some of the other guys where they sat down and kind of very jacob very very crassly it was just like yeah no

like um you're a mess you're a mess and i love rachel but it's cool like i mean and and so like gabby had to face that and rachel was said to gabby well you didn't have to like mine was public i had to do it in front of the men like she was trying to compare like what was more embarrassing yeah and you could tell it was just like they weren't on the same page and then you saw it again after gabby came in with rachel where you know like gabby in the nicest possible way was trying to like talk shit about logan to be like i don't know how many weeks he was going to accept this rose before like but you she was very because she was very careful and like gabby was just like

yeah like nodding her head like an agreement like she was shaking her head no while saying yeah yeah you know where you could tell they weren't quite on the same page but clearly like want to make sure that they are trying to be supportive and and and not look like not fight not fight yeah uh it's been kind of fascinating to watch but yeah listen i thought uh i didn't i didn't love how rachel canceled the group. I mean, you have such limited time. Yeah, she left meatball time on the table. Yeah. You can't do that.

Meatball. You can't do that. That was even interesting, too, when Gabby was trying to talk to her about the Logan of it all of, well, you know, did this pop up before or after the date? And she's like, well, no, there was no date. And Gabby, I think, was even so taken aback by that. And Rachel was like, well, no, there was no date. And Gabby, I think, was even so taken aback by that. And Rachel was like, well, no, I couldn't go on the date. And I think she was then trying to explain like, no, this rocked me to my core. I couldn't go. But I'm like, this process is so fast. Sometimes you just got to push through. Yeah. I mean, Rachel is the type of bachelorette

they traditionally love, which is every little thing rocks them to their core. And you see those emotions on TV, you know, we're not handling the disappointment well. And it doesn't seem like Rachel, I think the, one of the biggest differences we've seen Gabby and Rachel is how they are handling this disappointment where, you know, you see Gabby kind of, kind of, you know, gives a breath. You can see her kind of internalize it, process, think about it. And Rachel just reacts in the moment. And it's an authentic reaction. So I was watching this episode and I couldn't help but think about Susie from last season. And like what happened, like it made me think of how lucky Clayton is to have Susie. And like, listen, I've said this before, but after AFR and what Susie had to go through and just kind of like the, the weight of

batronation, like she came in, I've never seen someone handle adversity the way she did. And like clearly that her strength and her able, her ability to like, you know, handle those, the struggles and hold her power and like, and, and, and prioritize things that really matter rather than things that don't or worrying not worrying about how bachelor nation is gonna receive her i think like really has played a role in the success of this relationship yeah i couldn't imagine like having watched this season and good so they're not together but i couldn't imagine what that relationship would be like if if clayton had you know tried to pick rachel yeah just seems like, especially with canceling the group date,

like I totally relate to that instinct of like when you made plans with someone and you don't want to go for whatever reason. Sure. But it is like, it is the times you're like, fuck, I canceled on them twice before. No way. It is unacceptable to not show up where your arm is twisted that you have to get out of the house.

And then the second you go, you feel so much better. Like I think had Rachel gone on the date, she would have felt a million times better yeah but i think that's also maybe part of the yeah runs into his arms those big general contracting arms yeah i think we all like empathize with rachel and why she felt the way she did like no one's saying oh that wouldn't bother me right it's just you've got to go yeah it's how she's handling yeah and and like focusing on this disappointment and not seeing the force through the trees as they as they say um and also i didn't i didn't love her itm where she's just like i don't trust logan like he's you know it's just like if you didn't trust logan why didn't you tell gabby yeah about that like if how many more weeks were you gonna wait if it's really if it's really about not trusting him then

you know it just seemed like she wanted to talk shit like and i get it like but you're doing this on national like she wanted to talk shit about him because she was mad at him and i don't know just not my favorite for rachel tell you logan's face is like the dress remember the dress where you're like is it blue or gold yeah yeah like is he hot or isn't he hot like it's very strange i'm back and forth on sometimes in the eyes you're like okay there's a strong man in there yes i i i did like he doesn't do it for me. Natalie thinks he's hot. Yeah. He's very polarizing. Yeah. It's back and forth.

It's back and forth. No. One of my guy friends said he looks really attractive from like the neck down. And I was like, oh, wow. Oh, yeah. He's got it's an unusual. I ultimately I do think he's handsome. But then every now and then there's an angle where I'm like, whoa, what's going on?

Also, there's pain in the eyes. But we'll get to that. I'm sure at some point. To me, I think it ultimately comes down to like what was your relationship with like the captain of the high school baseball team at your school? Yes. Because that's what Logan looks like. And like the captain of the high school baseball team at my school, absolute stud. Like went to Vanderbilt, played pro, like sweetheart, student body president.

I feel like I err on the side of giving Logan benefit benefit of the doubt okay that haircut is baseball captain okay i thought he handled a very difficult situation as well as one could given i agree given how like all the potential landmines he could have stepped in and i i thought he handled it pretty well. Yeah, I agree. He tried to be empathetic and considerate to Rachel. He was up front. He was bold. I mean, last week, I think I was the only one in the room who thought Gabby would keep him because everyone was like,

nah, Gabby's just going to focus on Rachel. And that would have made a lot of sense because she has Nateate and eric and and jason and good on logan for and you saw gabby she i think she was trying to hold in her excitement yeah when when logan showed up at her door like i i felt like she was trying to okay like think about like say all the right things, empathize with Rachel, check in on Rachel. How is she? But it's a compliment.

It's an ego boost. Sure. Someone's that into you that they're willing to like risk. Yeah. But do you think it's more an ego boost or do you think it's, I think Gabby likes Slogan. No, it could be both. I mean, she even said, she was like, you were the one crossover. I think she genuinely had feelings,

but then kind of tried to forget about them when she saw that Rachelachel was interested but you could feel the same way and still have it be like a complimentary act for him to like show up at your door what do you think rachel's actual interest in logan is versus like is it just a bruised ego i know because i was telling you i saw a tiktok over the weekend and it was like do you really like him or do you just want him to like you and that's something i've been thinking about a lot like is it just the bachelorette thing and it's really disappointing that we're now down to i mean it's still like seven guys but we're down to a smaller group you would hope that everyone there would want you i couldn't help but see a sense of like rachel still feeling a little you know special like well they're not rejecting me yeah Yeah. Type of. Yeah. Maybe.

I think it's just there's inherent comparison. Always. Right. It's impossible to not have emotions, whether it be, oh, I'm down in the dumps or, oh, this makes me feel better. Oh, they like me less. Oh, they like me more. It also I think it it points to the issues with the dib system of like how on one hand, I think it's it's I totally get why they would come together and be like we don't want to be fighting we don't want to be trying to undermine each other we don't want to be giving this man the power by both kind of like squabbling for his affection

especially when we have so many other people but ultimately like you can't call dibs on someone because like people are autonomous and like have feelings and thoughts and like i think you could see with like gabby there's definitely like a little bit of that like okay so like I knew that there was a spark there and like yeah I did the I did the thing where I just like stepped away because it wasn't worth the drama in the moment if I'm not mistaken that cocktail party or kind of like group date after party thing there was a conversation I forget who it was with Rachel in which he said he was kind of there for Gabby so she was already kind of reeling from that and then she walked out and saw Gabby kissing someone else. So it was like already one guy had been taken off the table for her.

She sees Gabby having a great connection and kissing someone. And she was like, what am I doing? Yeah. So like, you know, Logan being assigned to Rachel was, wasn't as an authentic, you know, like no one really got a, it didn't seem like it really got to play out to see who's into who. It was more, let's make sure Rachel's feeling okay in this moment. And then it just kind of happened that way.

So it's hard to fault Logan. I mean, like if you want to nitpick, like should he have accepted the rose last week? Yeah, I guess you could criticize him for that. I just know that it would have been very like they're very good at making sure things happen when they want it to happen you know the the people who tell you to buy a boat in that world uh to play devil's advocate to your point about how this kind of proves that logan's there for the right reasons because obviously it's a terrible look what couldn't you say it's also guaranteed screen time oh yeah like if he's like i'm i'm gonna try

to get to paradise like if that's your goal amazing way to get to paradise absolutely i guess but i and i'm sure those people exist but i i have i don't think a lot of people go into this show thinking you know what i'm gonna take a bullet i'm gonna be a villain just it's that feels like hayden to me i think he's deliberately last week yes yeah i think he was like i'm not super into either of these women so i'm gonna just talk shit and then i'll go to paradise eventually by the way is there one yeah happening this year yeah it's done filming i'm pretty pretty sure Hayden did go. Okay, see? See? Rambo. Having met many of these people, I just don't see most people have that, first of all, that much forward thinking.

There's not a lot of long-term thinking. Not a lot of strategy. Or just playing it out. Or just, yeah. I mean, also, people who look bad on the show get crucified. I mean, if you've ever paid attention to this show and you have like a bad episode, like the wrath of Bachelor Nation. Of course. You know, can be.

It's a mighty wrath. Sure. But like, I don't think any of those people, I think you have that perspective and I can now, but I just don't think people who sign up for the show. Yeah. Okay. you have that perspective and I can now, but I just don't think people who sign up for the show have that perspective to the point where I don't, I don't think it's likely that they are willing to take criticism for a long term play. Okay. Okay.

But I could be wrong, but I don't, I don't buy it. Where are we now? I'm glad Rachel did have the cocktail party with her guys, even though she canceled the date. Right. Surprising no one, Tino got another rose.

What was? I love that Tino at least said something. Yeah. You know. Did he say why he felt overlooked? Why? It was. He was more so.

He was talking about how he felt hurt that the date itself was canceled. Unseen. But like, yeah. But that he was still willing to like build on what they had and like wanted to kind of move forward it's probably based off the fact of like put yourself in any of these guys shoes it's just like okay i'm sad you got rejected but like if you're so sad about them what is like there's like you know you gotta get four or five solid dudes here yeah i'll be honest if i'm tino it's just like i didn't really see it with you and logan i didn't really see it with you and Logan.

I didn't really, you know, if you're Tino, you're like, I didn't really know I had to worry about Logan. But you're, you can't, you decided not to hang out with me. You know, think about it. Like when you're in a relationship with someone, what's part of being in a relationship? Wanting someone to rely on you to make them feel better. You know, like, hey, who's the person you go to when you're sad? Your boyfriend, your girlfriend, whoever that that is and all these guys knowing that rachel was disappointed had an opportunity to to do that now you know hey rachel could say well i i wanted you guys to make me feel good on gabby's date and you didn't i don't know but like it just seemed like if you're them i can understand why they would be bummed yeah you know like we watched you cry

because you we didn't look at you once or whatever yeah yeah so yeah and you understand what that this whole world is like them sitting waiting right it's hanging out with each other constantly waiting for like minutes not like just literally three or four minutes is like yeah wow i got to talk to you and and rachel just canceled it yeah you know which is i can i could appreciate why they have some frustrations so here's a question for you at this stage in it are you like when there are like five or six is a person already like there are two who are absolutely usually yeah okay yeah so that to me that's like she's like oh god it's how sweet it is it's probably belgian chocolate related i don't feel like eating chocolate i don't feel like you know whatever i'm a little bummed out and i already

know how this is going to end i already know that like it's i don't have a future with meatball so like so i'm just gonna go ahead and not do it yeah well if if well if i was trying to put myself in rachel's shoes as the bachelor if if my front runners weren't on this date i could see myself wanting to cancel like you know there's a lot of dates you're just like oh god but you know for example if vanessa was ever on a date like those were dates i would look forward to because like I was trying to build a connection with her and I had such little time. I was like, well, there was a group date or a one-on-one. Like I was, I woke up excited and like that was my focus.

So Rachel canceling this date would say that like, oh, Logan must've been some, you know, guy she was going to pick. I didn't, I didn't see that, but you know, if you're Tino or, or, uh,

Avon or Avon wasn't on the group date, but who else was, so it was Zach, Tino, Zach, Tyler. Yeah. So like,

you know, some guys who are really falling for, uh, Zach, I mean, I told you, I think he's going to be the one with the broken heart. He's already setting himself up.

He's just like, he's in it. He's falling in love. And if you're those guys and you're just like, I've been waiting three days for this moment. And you're just like, what then do you do? Do you just have to hang out in your room? Well, what they did is they just probably did a bunch of ITMs to talk about how they felt about Rachel canceling the date.

Gotcha. And then they were told that Rachel's finally ready to have a cocktail party. Okay. Yeah. And then Logan enters the house. I've heard from the grapevine that it's a fairly bro-y group. through the grapevine that it's a fairly bro-y group. Like, well, there's not a lot of drama amongst the men,

whether it's their very conscientious of not looking bad or maybe it's just they casted some good group of well-rounded men. There's not a lot of drama between the men. And I think you saw that because like Logan coming into the house, like really, it reminded me like as a mini, like me showing up for Caitlin season. You you know like it was kind of framed that way or it's just like even though he's been on the season he had to like re-enter a new season in a new house they definitely tried to wring some drama out of yeah the guys were just like uh work

hey hey yeah yeah i'm annoyed i'm not sure what this means but they didn't really seem to take it out on right on logan which little anticlimactic it i think that matters to like what these guys think of logan like they seem to like logan like they they seem annoyed by what's happening but they don't seem to be taking it out on him and we've seen in previous seasons that if if these guys didn't like logan at all i think they would have jumped all over him yeah right it's very likable the way that he phrased it was so interesting he didn't say oh gabby wants the opportunity to pursue me he said gabby wants me to have the opportunity to pursue her which i just thought was a nice way of framing it he's

very thoughtful with his words yeah he's very you can tell he was a nice way of framing it he's very thoughtful with his words yeah he's very you can tell he put a lot of thought into it it's that videographer eye i know i literally was like what do you video like what like i was trying to figure out like what yeah is your what do you mean yeah by that i have there's a lot of that leisure executives there's a lot of like i don't i don't know what you're talking about with your profession but god bless i feel like a tino getting the group date rose was a validation rose it was like yeah just kidding you are still my favorite you know and tyler's gonna be like fuck i whipped out the infinity room or was that at the cocktail party what did

he do the the room with like the lights and the mirrors and the twinkles and whatnot yeah it's like you i feel like there's got to be some level of like calculation where you're like okay this is my group this is the one where i want the rose i'm going to show the book that my students from home or the necklace that my mom zach felt really disappointed because he got rachel to yell and that didn't work we were all we're pulling out the stops. Yeah. We're howling at the Belgian moon. Well, like I, you know how like the punch a pillow to get the anger out type of thing.

Isn't the yelling kind of the same? Yeah. It was the thing at our college, the Sunday before finals week, there's the primal scream where at like 8 PM, everybody opens their windows. I remember hearing something that like, that doesn't work the way you want it to.

It's intended. Well, how, how so? I mean, I feel like if you Google it, but I feel to it's intended well how how so i mean i feel like if you google it but i feel like it's why does screaming not work or like the punching of the pillow or like the i could be wrong and maybe it's just like someone told me and i just like

i'm passing it on as false information but uh it just it doesn't punching something as a is a relay or yelling is a way to let your anger out might only just... I don't know, Nick. Everything here is telling me that screaming is good for me. I find it very helpful. I think the punching in particular. The scientific reason.

You should be screaming. It's good. You know, I do... Well, then fuck me. I've gotten very into breath work, rhythmic breath work. Yeah, yeah. There's an app called Open,

which I really recommend, and they have very good sessions. There's a teacher, actually, who looks exactly like tino it's crazy uh anyone anyone listening who uses open knows exactly what i'm talking about um but some of the breathwork sessions you they do encourage you to scream like into a pillow or whatever and it really like it kicks the practice up a little bit. And I feel a little cleansed afterwards. And my dog is freaked out every time. I was feeling anxious the other night.

And Natalie did some breathing exercises with me. And it really quite helped. Yeah. Brings you into equilibrium. It was her idea. Rachel could stand to use breathing exercises. Yes. Gabby's side of things.

Sure. Should we talk about theny one-on-one yeah we finally johnny has a voice now i get it now yeah yeah he's another one i've been on the fence about yeah he's really been flying under the radar yes to me it's the fact i think he has a very thick lash line which was made me think he was wearing eyeliner which there's no issue with that but it was tainted the eyeliner and the tattoos and the TV of it all made me kind of jury was out on him. He's a silly little fun guy. Weirdo.

He's fun. He's fun. Yeah, I like him. And there's clearly a rapport between Gabby and Johnny that we just haven't been shown. Yes. Because when that one-on-one started, I was like, I expected like a nervous energy, like, oh, I've been quiet. But like,

they clearly are very comfortable with each other and we haven't really seen Gabby and Johnny at all. So I think they just haven't shown it. It was fun. A pleasant surprise. They had a nice date.

Gabby has fun with them. He's the, as she described, someone that she can goof around with. And Gabby seemed to be really comfortable, like really just out of her head, out of, you know, like it wasn't as heavy emotional date and things like that. Although when they had the one-on-one, really good for Johnny for like talking about, you know, like how he sees himself. And I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but it seems like, you know, with Jason and Johnny, the men who are in, that are pursuing Gabby, there's, I don't know, maybe it's,

maybe they're inspired by Gabby sharing her story. I don't know what it is, or maybe it's just a total coincidence, but you're seeing, you know, not like typical bachelor date conversations, where there's some real authentic stuff talking about some really vulnerable stuff jason the week before where the guys in in rachel's camp they're fine stories but they seem to be more typical like kind of embellished sad bachelor stories you know where

it's more about what they had to deal with with their family and how that affected them. And to whatever degree, we don't know. But it's a lot harder, I think, to really open up and talk about how you see yourself in a vulnerable light on national television. And it's been kind of inspiring, I think, both with Jason and Johnny. And I don't know if Gabby has something to do with it or if it's just a coincidence, but I find it interesting. Well, it feels like it's with Rachel. It's the stories feel a little bit more narrative. Like with Aiden, it was like, and it was beautiful. It felt very authentic, but it was very narrative.

It was like, this is what happened. And then this happened. And then this happened versus like with Gabby, with both like the conversation she had with Jason, with the conversation she had with Johnny, it feels less of like, this is like a narrative I've constructed about the doubt, the challenging things for my life that I want to present to you and more just like really raw on a conversation. This is who I am. I struggle with this.

Mental health wise, I go to therapy to work on next Wednesday. Like you're making me think about the inner child stuff. Like you're making me think about the fact that, yeah, I guess I did feel like the second I got to be like myself and weird, my girlfriend broke up with me and that fucked with my head. Like less of this like kind of packaged like more premeditated yeah so my parents got divorced and that was sad and you know not taking anything away from the people but those are very typical bachelor kind of beats that we've seen over and over and over every season we often don't get to see whether it's men or women really talking about some inner vulnerability and which is really hard to do about like how

they see themselves and it's been fascinating i really have enjoyed uh watching it and didn't expect it from johnny did not expect it from johnny so props to props to johnny i think he's catapulted himself as a potential front runner yeah and sometimes the show does that right they'll hide some front runners early on and then out of nowhere you know i'll be i'm interested to see where things go from with johnny you know going forward i was hoping that would be kirk alas the football coach yeah you liked it i did yeah what's your what's your temperature check on the men so far like anyone's that you really like that from home or just kind of in general the ones who are left how you feel um there are a few who are like legitimately like sexy you know what i mean um what's his name what's his name is it zach

hold on i gotta go or no not zach not zach um if you're zach listen to this podcast no i mean no he's some sex with zach no not no not him jason i think yeah he's the one with the kind of mullety eric eric eric it's very sexy um yeah that kirk was my favorite kirk and hayden were right up my alley you liked hayden i did like hayden just looks wise okay you seem cute yeah yeah lovely smile so if you got a sick dog stay with the sick sick dog. Oh, yeah. Right? For God's sake. And if the rumors are true, if he did go to paradise, that's even more damning. Well, I mean, who knows what happened. Maybe the dog died. No, the dog is alive and well.

I checked on him the other day. Well? So he totally used his dog. Well, the dog, let's not, I mean, the dog probably does have this condition in the brain tumor, but he posted something in June of the dog. That's a sad, that's a backfire on a sad attempt at a sad story yeah uh yeah that makes it that's a sad story that makes you look bad when my dog is dying and yet i'm here being on tv i i thought uh thank you gabby's lovely smile

the gabby's men they really set it up for the and i was really i'm glad that went the way they did but they really set it up for these guys to kind of go after Gabby for allowing Logan to come in. And while they were bothered by it, they didn't put it on Gabby. You know what I'm saying? They recognized that they were affected by it. What does this mean? It certainly rattles my confidence, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But I'm glad that none of them really put that on Gabby and made her feel guilty for wanting to explore the relationship with Logan because that was definitely a landmine they could have stepped in and they didn't seem to take the bait. Although Eric doesn't seem, I don't know if it's a coincidence or it's who Eric is, but there is that moment, episode one, where they show him being disappointed at the first one-on-one. And I don't know what's going to happen. But they seem to be setting up Eric, or again, maybe this is who he is, as someone who really does not handle disappointment or rejection well. I agree.

Because every once in a while, they kind of show this kind of petulant kind of, he's not going my way. I think he totally thought he was going to get both first impression roses like on night one that's the vibe on each side of the suit how do you handle that what do you do if you get two first impression roses that's how they're come across and i don't know if it's just again who he is or they're they seem to be deliberately showing these moments and i don't know if it's like foreshadowing you know i don't know but he just seems just on the edge of like throwing a temper tantrum he really does okay and i think this is like one of the reasons i think we love the bachelor is because it's these people who like seem so like fucking hot and charming that like you're like have you ever had adversity like have

you ever been in a room and felt really ignored and overlooked and insecure and i feel like eric is one of the prime like sure have you maybe not let's see what happens also let's deprive you of sleep and apply you with booze yeah uh nate nate another strong showing also Also hot. And all the M's went home. All M's. If you consider Meatball an M. Surely he has. Well, his name is James. James. Well, when he tattles, he's James.

James told me. It's hard to be pissy saying Meatball told me. That's his playa name. His playa name is Meatball. His playa name is absolutely meatball uh there's you know probably a lot of vegans but anyways i thought they i thought they handled it quite well despite you know i don't know what's going on with eric but we'll see other than eric uh just showing a little a little bit of cracks they yeah gabby's men... I feel like he's going to freak at some point. Eric?

I don't know if he's going to freak, but if Gabby breaks his heart, I think he will express anger. Is that okay? He can't be cruel, but are we allowed to be mad when our hearts are broken? Or if you feel let

on? I don't know if that's you know in this context in bachelor world it's not this but you know i guess well this depends on how he shows that anger but i think it's safe to say we we will see anger from eric if he feels embarrassed okay and and then it's like when does? Yeah. Like if it's after like meeting the family or if it's after fantasy suites or whatever, then yeah, I can see somebody snapping. I could see it being after fantasy suites. Okay. So you think, okay, so does that mean you think Johnny, Jason, Eric for fantasy suites for Gabby? Johnny, Jason.

Well, where's Nate? Yeah, what about Nate? What about Nate? I donby? Johnny, Jason. Well, where's Nate? Yeah, what about Nate? What about Nate? I don't know if I, did I, what about Nate? I don't know if I see Jason going that far. Really? Yeah. Really?

Yeah, I don't know if I do. There, I said it. I don't know. That is a hot take. If I had to pick a winner, it'd be Jason. If I had to pick a winner, it'd be Nate. I definitely see, I think I see Logan. And who else am I looking at here?

Probably maybe Johnny. Maybe Johnny. Who else does she have? I'm looking at these faces and they're starting to blend together. She has Spencer, the dude who brought the chair the first night. It was like, when do we need to sit down when they're in the military? Spencer, yeah. He's just kind of there.

And then he's like handsome. Yeah, I forget it. I think we look at him and like, you're really handsome. You should be like having more success,

but it just doesn't seem. Yeah. And think about it. There's, each women have five men. That's what I mean. I'm really curious how this is going forward

because like, is Hometown in two weeks? Do each women get their own separate Hometown episodes? That's what they said. Yeah. Hometowns are two weeks away. Okay. Yeah, I think.ometown in two weeks? Do each women get their own separate Hometown episodes? That's what they said. Hometowns are two weeks away. Okay. Yeah, I think.

It's two weeks away. That's what Rachel said. She was like, for him to leave me like two weeks before Hometown. They're doing, she had the voiceover as the men were crossing the bridge. How many episodes are we in? This is what, episode five? And Hometown is usually episode eight. Maybe they're splitting them up.

I don't know. Into two episodes. That would make sense right how do you how do you cram eight hometowns into one yeah it's a lot i could see it being two back-to-back weeks of gabby and rachel okay that would be i'm interested how that goes or maybe like a episode and a half or something like that i don't know i can't possibly be one but we're we're down to they both they basically one guy is going to go, is it both?

They both have five? Is that what it is? So we got Rachel, we got Avon, we got Tino, we got Tyler, we got Zach. Zach.

Avon, Tino, Tyler, Zach. Ethan. Oh, Ethan, right. Which one's Ethan? Ethan's marketing executive from New York. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. He, Ethan, right. Ethan. Which one's Ethan? Ethan's marketing executive from New York. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. He stood out to me this episode.

We hadn't seen a ton from him. Yeah. They had a nice little kissy kiss. Yes, it was nice to see him. So basically, we already know Rachel's top four, though, because I don't think Ethan's in it. We all forgot. Yeah.

It's just that was one moment where I felt kind of sad, where I was like, oh, like Ethan's in it and Rachel's not. And she's being nice. It's, and she's being, it's not like she's doing anything bad. She's doing her job as lead. But like, it was one of those moments

where it was like, there's a real disparity in terms of like, the connection here. Unfortunately for Ethan, like, you know, we have two Bachelorettes. Like there's still eight,

there's still 10 guys left. But you divide it into two and now they, they only have one more to send home. And usually your top four is a lot stronger than all your other connections. So I think it's just, it is what it is.

And then Gabby has Nate, Johnny, Logan, Jason, Eric. Nate, Johnny, Logan. I think it's Jason who goes next. They had a good one-on-one though. That's true. I don't know. Or Johnny. Wait, so wait, it don't know. Or Johnny.

Wait, so wait, it's Nate, Eric, Johnny. Johnny, Logan, Jason. Logan, Logan. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Rach, Gabby's got a strong top five. She does. Interesting.

I would say both of them do, apart from like Ethan. I just mean, again. Sorry, Ethan. Shout out, Ethan, shout out Ethan. We love you. We love, we love it. We got represent New York, you know,

but it just, you know, between him and meatball, we didn't know. Yeah. You know, and then it ended up being Ethan, but with,

with Gabby, I think it's harder to, to figure out. Yeah, I agree. Who does go home next for Gabby? Probably Spencer. We forget about Spencer.

Oh, Spencer. Yeah. So does she have six? Oh, Spencer's gone. She's gotta have one more, because Logan jumped ship. That's right. Yeah. And remember, and I'm pretty sure they said, like, there's one more rose at the table. Okay, so Gabby's got six,

and Rachel has five. Yeah, because Logan. I think that's also gotta be... So Spencer's gone. In terms of contextualizing Rachel's behavior also, it's gotta be so hard having these, like, numbers assigned to popularity. You know, in terms of, like, recognizing rachel's rachel's behavior also it's got to be so hard having these like numbers assigned to popularity you know in terms of like why it seems like she seems like very focused on like the way it looks of it all is because it's like there's all these like tangible concrete

metrics of how quote unquote desirable that's why i will say i like i said this last week, I think this having two bachelorettes has modernized the show to more authentically encapsulate what modern dating is like in the sense that, to your point, is we have these tools like dating apps and social media, and it is allowing us to constantly compare ourselves or stack rank ourselves or feel even the slightest bit of rejection when we don't match with every person we swipe right on or we don't have intense conversations with everyone we message and say hi to and they don't get back to us.

And all those little moments of rejection, like whether we really think about it or not, add up. And even though dating is supposed to be about going out there and trying to find one person and one good connection, we, I think subconsciously or subconsciously, we are trying to accumulate rosters. And we're trying to think like a popularity contest and feeling like all these people want to date me and I get to choose between all these people I'm matching with. And I think you're seeing that specifically in Rachel and focusing on things that shouldn't matter as much

because she, you know, whether she's got four, as we see it, four really strong connections that are hard for us to really determine. Like, you know, we joke about Tino, but there's some really good connections there. And that's all that really matters. Not that Gabby has two extra, like an extra guy. And maybe like, what's the difference between Ethan and Spencer at the end of the day for Gabby and Rachel?

You know, like nothing. Have we really seen anything between Spencer and Gabby? Like one impactful conversation. And at the end of the day, Gabby's not going to end up with four guys. You know what I'm saying? Sheby's not gonna end up with four guys you know what I'm saying she's not gonna end up with Logan Nate

although if there was a bachelorette who could pull off like a polyamory situation I'd say it's Gabby hands down okay alright

I don't think that's not my prediction it's time it's time but you know it's weird as we sit now we're sitting here

thinking oh Gabby's got all these you know strong connections but fast forward five weeks we're sitting here thinking, oh, Gabby's got all these, you know, strong connections. But fast forward five weeks, we're going to see it very differently. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? These guys, you know, one of these guys in Gabby's camp could be in a relationship with someone else from paradise. Right.

As we sit here today. Of course. So it just doesn't really matter. So I do think it's fascinating how having two bachelorettes has really kind of made this season more relatable to, I think people who are out there dating today, uh, because it's easier to feel rejected and out there in the dating world because of the options that are given to us.

It's yeah. It's like, there's like just a fundamental lack of like gratitude I think in dating everywhere because like we're, we're given this like scarcity mindset of like why would you be grateful for the one person you did match with like the person you do have that strong connection with when you're constantly bombarded with like more more more more more and i was thinking about it and i was like wow the bachelor setting is

probably the hardest possible environment to feel gratitude in yeah yeah wow that's I'm gonna sit with that for a minute it requires more maturity to do so who's gonna give me in Gabby's top four you think it's not Jason

and not Spencer so you think it's Nate for sure Nate Logan for sure uh no I've forgotten who else again

Eric yeah that's that feels like my top three I think Nate is I'm gonna stick with my earlier prediction that it's Oh, I've forgotten. Who else again? Oh, Eric. Yeah. That feels like my top three. I think Nate is... I'm going to stick with my earlier prediction that there's more of a mutual respect rather than a mutual connection

between Nate, her and Nate. What did we make of... This was one of the episodes where she actually acknowledged the fatherhood element of Nate's identity because she got the gift for his daughter what like because i feel like that's usually a much bigger there's a lot of attention call to that of like this like i would be a mom or like stepping into like a maternal role in some capacity

well i feel like my guess is we're definitely gonna get into that going forwards yeah these like well do you think it's a hometown? Yeah. For sure. Yeah. If you, if you. Yeah. Especially cause she's like older, right? Isn't she like eight or something?

She's six. Six. She's older. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. She's an older woman. Aging like fine wine.

A late life. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. I, I, I,

it's not easy. It's been a, it's, it's, it's one of the harder final fives to predict yeah because and i think the part of that is because of lack lack of what we've been shown it's probably not as hard to figure out in real time right yeah i'm trying like i didn't see a i haven't seen a rest of the season promo yet, so I can't. Yeah. Which is what they're often misleading anyways. But I'm just saying we clearly, like Johnny, out of nowhere. Yeah. And we're basing all of these predictions off of essentially one one-on-one date. Right.

That we just saw. That we just saw. So he's fresh in the mind. Yeah. There's recency bias. If Spencer gets the one-on-one next week, who knows? Right. Anyone's game. I think Spencer gets a one-on-one and gets sent home on the one-on-one next week, like who knows? Right. Anyone's game.

I think Spencer gets a one-on-one and gets sent home on a one-on-one is my guess. I don't know if she would waste a one-on-one with him though because he's technically already had that one-on-one dinner that he won after the wrestling date. Is it on her to choose? Does she choose? Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, what else? Who do we think she would pick for a one-on-one next episode logan yeah probably logan figure out exactly what that connection is yeah so logan and spencer will they both get one yeah logan yeah she's got to figure it out are you cute i think that would be are you hot that'd be good looking at you are you attractive she's going angle to angle are you blue and gold yeah what. Are you blue and black and purple? Yeah. I want to see her white and gold. That would be good if she has a one-on-one with Logan and sends him home.

Epic. And then he's like, Rachel's like. Knocks on Rachel's door and he's like, hey. Yeah. I have to tell you, I love the way that the season started when they were like, there's so many guys. We didn't really get to like talk to that many of them, so we're not going to

have a rose ceremony, but definitely not you three. You know what I mean? We want to get to know you guys better, except you three. Except you, Roby. Out.

Get your magician ass out of here. Put the rabbit back in the hat and get the fuck out. The disappearing act needs to be you. We know we can't stand you. Go poof.

Twins, get gone. Twins are weird. You probably have a made-up language together. Go homeof. Twins, get gone. Twins are weird. You probably have a made-up language together. Go home. Two 24-year-olds. Yeah. All right. I think that does it, right?

Who do you think they end up with? Oh, boy. I think Nate and Gabby somehow. That's just a feeling. And Tina and Rachel. Rachel and Tina. I still think Nate's the only possible bachelor option that we've seen it's still early yeah yeah you don't think they would what about even what about zach

they make they make clayton the bachelor and we didn't know anything about him so anything's possible from what we've seen very early what we've seen i think nate is the only one that i i look at and say what a great what a great potential bachelor he is i agree but in terms of edit i think we're really getting this like like you were saying zach is gonna get his heart broken i think we're really getting like zach yeah we still got it we forgot zach do they both have six no we mentioned do we mention zach yeah yeah nate would be a good bachelor he would be a good one zach that zach's definitely gonna Do they both have six? No, we mentioned Zach. Do we mention Zach? Yeah. We mentioned Zach. Yeah. Nate would be a good bachelor. He would be a good one.

Zach. Zach's definitely going to be heartbroken. That's for sure. Yeah. Because we were like Tino, Tino, Tino. 0% chance it's not Tino. Is that the consensus? I don't see a world in which she doesn't pick Tino

if Tino doesn't leave on his own. Yeah. Or Ava. What did he give her, by the way? This is another interesting point. Rachel said to Avin that, I feel safe around you, and when things don't go how I want,

which is often for Rachel, that he looks to her, she looks to Avin first. And those are profound things to say about someone. And Avin dropped a fallen in love in an ITM. Less is important. But it's significant

that they're going to show us that. Because have we seen other men say I'm falling in love? That was kind of heavily implied. But those also can be misleading too. I'm just saying, I feel safe with you. And when I'm upset,

I look for you. I think are really meaningful things to say and all I could think about when she said that was how is her fiance Tino gonna think about it

when she watches this episode she's like no I feel safer with you babe safe real safe but cause that would be something

that would I think would bug me if I was if I heard that being said about someone else you feel okay like you were with me but you felt safe with them because every every lead says to the person

i don't know i was a bachelor i was a bachelorette like i had to get through it i had to survive i had to say some things fair but you feel that i would i would hate I would hate to hear that. It's intimate. It's intimate. Yeah, it's like Rachel's on the couch, snuggled up. Tina's sitting down. She's laying down. He has his arm around her and he just moves his arm when she does that. But I don't know. Maybe

she does pick Ava. I don't think so, but those are meaningful words. Yeah. It seems like they have a nice connection. She did also say she's really attracted to Avin. He's very handsome. He's a smoke show. Yeah, he really is.

Of course, they all are. Yeah. I think for Rachel's one-on-one next week, I feel like it's probably going to be a repeat. Well, I mean, usually the week before hometowns is at least one or two repeats. Well, Tyler hasn't had a full one-on-one. He got awarded that

like oh drinks dinner for the group date but he's never had his own one-on-one okay yeah do we think Tyler's gonna get a I just think Tyler's a cutie pie he's cute said it before I say it again he like he like Tyler I don't necessarily I don't even like him necessarily on a personal level or personality I just think he's a cutie pie. I don't dislike him or go literally, but. Adorable. Yeah.

Yeah. Or even more handsome. Tyler's adorable. Yeah. And Tino looks like my breathwork teacher. It's good.

I feel like Tino's model hot though. Catalog. Yes. All American. Rugged. Yeah. Like you'd find him on like a Levi's. Tommy Hilfiger. Yeah. Wrangog. Yes. All American. Rugged. Yeah. Like you'd find him on like a Levi's.

Tommy Hilfiger. Yeah. Wrangler. Yeah. Fourth of July. Home commercial. He stood in front of a Hollister in his day.

Where doers get more done. Tino. Yeah. All right. Well, we will find out more next week, Dave. As always, a real pleasure. My God.

So much fun. So much fun. Please let the audience know where they can follow you, enjoy your work. Oh, boy. All the great things you're doing. Yeah, just follow me on Twitter and or Instagram at Dave Holmes. I'll plug all my stuff there.

If you get there in the next few hours, you'll see a terrific story of my dog chewing a ruffle. There we go. The best sound in the world. If you ask me, dog chowing down on a Ruffles potato chip. I do. I do love potato chips. ASMR or whatever it is. Well, thanks for listening, everybody.

Tomorrow, Wells Adams. Oh, boy. Joins us. We'll talk about the Kardashians, Pete and Kim breakup. Maybe get an update on his engagement. How are you with that? Yeah. I want to believe it's real.

I don't know. We'll also talk some Jen Coolidge. Oh, Jennifer Coolidge. Yeah. She's getting some. Yeah. We're happy for her. Texting office hours.

We'll probably get an update on maybe some wedding details or at least maybe talk about what long engagements feel like. You know, COVID impacted. I don't know. We'll catch up with Wells. Maybe get some paradise tea. Maybe. Maybe some.

Are they continuing to have a bunch of hosts on that? No, it's just Jesse. And then Wells went back to his bartending role. Justice for Lil Jon. Lil Jon did an amazing job. And he reposted a vile, vile story to his personal Instagram account. So I will forever be loyal to that man. Well, thanks for listening, guys.

We will see you tomorrow.