The Viall Files - E462 Going Deeper with Cheryl Burke - Divorce, DWTS plus Green Line Test

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files, Going Deeper edition! Today we are joined by dancer, model, and host, Cheryl Burke! On this episode we dive into chatting with Cheryl and ask her about her recovery from both her divorce and addiction, how she better learned to build her life in sobriety, and learning to love yourself after a life of hardship. We also transition to talking about Dancing with The Stars moving to Disney+ and managing jealousy when you’re dating someone in the entertainment industry. We then dive into some pop culture topics, getting an update on the Olivia Wilde and Jason Sudeikis divorce, the couple photo green line test, how you could’ve predicted the breakup between Pete and Kim, and the impact of body language. We then welcome on our Texting Office Hours Callers. Our first caller talks about a guy she’s been talking to on Hinge which was going well until she had to put it on pause because she got back together with her ex. After breaking up with her ex, she runs into this Hinge guy at a gym and afterwards he added her on Facebook. Now she wonders if she should shoot her shot, even with having so many signs that he’s into her. Our next caller has been talking to a guy for over two years, but has never met him in real life. But after temporarily moving to the Netherlands to be closer to him and getting mixed messages, she asks if she should just focus on her independence in Europe versus worrying just about this guy.  “When I’m not working, I’m working on myself.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET  on Amazon's Amp app.  Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rothy’s: Step up your shoes and accessories, get $20 off your first purchase at http://www.rothys.com/VIALL. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @cherylburke @cherylburkeofficial See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another delicious episode of the vile files yummy little callback it's our new favorite word to uh uh. A ching. A ching. Anyway, uh, it is delicious. It's wonderful. We have Cheryl Burke with us today. Well, I mean, we already love Cheryl, but uh, Cheryl, what a great guest. So awesome. I feel like she's candidate wise in the way that I have

only ever seen from like people who are sober. Yeah. Well, when she talks about her sobriety, her divorce, getting a little Dancing with the Stars updates, and uh, all around into a little Dancing with the Stars updates, and all around solid, real solid episode. Yeah, we got into it. Yeah.

I went to Mexico this weekend. Breathless Cancun Soul Resort and Spa. What a name. I had a really nice time. And like ALG Vacations, they set it all up. It was great. Me, Joe, Serena, Natalie, and ourselves. Those places can be hit or miss sometimes with all-inclusive places.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because the whole concept is you pay up front money, and then they're like, well, you already paid. But they had some really delicious meals. There were some meals I had that I was just like, I want to have this again. This is really good. That's big for you.

That is big. You're very picky. I had some chicken that I called. I told Joe it was memorable. Wow. Oh, my God. That's a Michelin star right there. But it's the type of resort you'd go and hang out with.

You're perfect for couples. It's an adult place. So either it's bachelor parties or bachelorette parties, but also great for if you used to go party back in the day, and then maybe you don't anymore, but you want to go back to Cancun and then maybe you don't anymore because like, you know, but you want to go back to like Cancun and live it up with some friends and take some shots

and just, you know, dance and do like a little fun pool, you know, turn it up, get the DJ going, like great place for it. Good times. Did you rip shots?

No, I don't do shots. I was going to. I did drink. I can't imagine you doing a shot. No, but I would pay money to see it. Yeah, I don't do shots. But you drank. That's exciting.

I drank. Mazel tov. We had a really enjoyable time. And they planned everything. I mean, so. I went to a very bad quality all-inclusive resort with my ex way back when.

How do I feel like you lived an entire life before I even knew I was born? Like, you just have all of these stories. I put myself out there. I have knew I was born. Like, you just have all of these stories. I put myself out there. I have made some risky choices. Like, what? Not risky, but just like... I've never even, like, traveled with a partner.

Like, I just feel like a child. Date a 30-year-old in college, you can travel with a partner. There we go. That's the secret. But the food was very bad. But I will say it was, like, it was very much like a point of bonding like and kind of it the nice thing about all inclusives is that it's like you kind of you learn the terrain early on and then you're like this is where we are and yeah you can go on like little adventures but i feel like usually on vacations there's this like well

what are we gonna do element of like where are we gonna eat like you know you have to have like planning an itinerary and i do think it's kind of fun when you go on a vacation where you're just like all right you're in this yeah but also like the algea vacations who who planned it out like they really like they they organized some fun things that's awesome i really appreciate it just because i'm not a natalie's not a vacation planner either so we had stuff to do the whole time which is something that we don't usually do. Even when we went to Europe, we're like, oh, what should we do? We ran into friends and they basically were our tour guides, travel guide. When you and Natalie are on vacation together,

how much alone time do you tend to take? Not much. Should we do more? From each other or from the other members of the group? I meant from each other, but. Well, this was like a couple's thing uh yeah not a ton i guess maybe like after the vacation like you know there's he said that like after europe you guys kind of were just like needed a little time yeah i mean but like she had you know we were gone for like two weeks so she hit like we both had like shit to do and it was like this natural like people to catch up with people catch up with or whatever a lot of i mean i guess y'all live together that's just like a lot but when you travel there's a there's whatever. It's a lot of, I mean, I guess y'all live together. That's just like a lot. But when you travel, there's an intense, there's more intensity.

Yeah. I had to, when I went to Vegas, like this was before I was like dating my boyfriend and I had to like disappear for 30 minutes and go poop in like the conference room toilet. Okay. Allie has influenced me. No, see, here's the thing because Allie's an influencer. The thing is like promising, promising, what do we call him? Promising new man, promising young man or whatever, like, was always on the same level with me.

And he'd be like, okay, well, like, when I threw up, like, last week, he was like, well, how have your bowel movements been recently? Like, he just goes straight there. And I was like, let me tell you. That's because he's a doctor. I'll ask. Bowel movements is, like, to me. Talk about it all day. Like I will talk about it.

Why is it personal? Except for the person I'm fucking. Why it's. We're going to cut this. We have a great episode. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. Ellie Zeiler is with us next week.

We'll get to chat with her. Learn about her fascinating life. Her rise to fame in TikTok fashion, your latest and greatest pop culture conversations. Also, Bachelor recap. Oh, Becca Moore is back helping us break down another episode of The Bachelorette. Definitely don't want to miss that. I will say, final thoughts on peeing and pooping.

I always thought like my young life that if the girl I was dating would pee in front of me, it would be like, she must really feel comfortable. It was like a good moment. It was like, I saw that as like.

Like a milestone. Like a milestone. Sometimes you don't have an option. It was anticlimactic for you? No, I'm just saying, but like I could not feel more different about if the other thing happened. Yeah, I totally agree.

She just like pulled her pants down and started peeing. I'm like, wow, you must really, wow, you must, we have something there. Like, what a, wow. But the other, like, I know it happens. It's fine. I love you. Blah, blah, blah. Cheryl Burke, everybody.

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R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Cheryl. Hi. Welcome. Thanks. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm great. I'm great that you're here. I'm so happy to have you. Thank you. You look very tan.

I was in Mexico. I know. Although it is summer you're not as tan as me i don't know if i really i got some sun but i'm a big believer don't fuck with the sun in mexico in spf yeah like those you see it every time you go you go around to mexico and you just spot them out all the people who got cocky day one right yeah and at the airport yeah like a lobster it, no, just load it up. And I know, I don't know, apparently those new reports about SPF and apparently it's unhealthy for you.

I don't know. Nothing's healthy for you. Everything is unhealthy for you. Living in Los Angeles, breathing this horrible air. You know what's unhealthy for you? Having the sun burn your skin off. Skin cancer. That's definitely unhealthy for you.

And I also go in a tanning bed. Don't even, let's not go there. Also not good. Yeah, skin cancer. Yeah. That's definitely unhealthy. Yeah. And I also go in a tanning bed. Don't even, let's not go there. But yeah. Also not good. Yeah, I know. I know, I know. Listen, I'm sober now,

so I can, that's my advice. Sunset tan in Studio City. That's your advice. Anyone wants to join me. Yeah. Okay.

Anyone wants to join me. Well, we are happy to have you. We have a lot to talk about. Let's just get into it before we get into all our pop culture and office hours. How have you been? Oh, wow. That's a loaded question. I like to start with the loaded ones.

Yeah. No, I've been okay. I'm here. I am alive and I am well. I am taking my whole life one day at a time with my sobriety and also with my divorce and life in general. So it's really that. How recent was your divorce? We separated January 7th of this year. Very recent. Very recent. How are you doing? Like, how is your heart?

Seriously. My heart is heavy, you know, and it's like I'm grieving a death, basically, because, you know, this is somebody that I spent every single day of my life with for the past five years. And plus, we have history. We dated when I first started Dancing with the Stars back in 2006, and then we dated in 2007. So there's this history there that basically I relate to as my whole career here in Los Angeles as far as him in my life goes. Oh, really? So like as far as, wow, that's even tougher. Yeah.

Yeah, it sucks. We do that sometimes. Whether we should or shouldn't do that. There was a 10-year gap, but like still, it's like, you know, the first and last type thing. Yeah. As of today. It could be something that you, it would be understandable that pops in your head and if you're having sad thoughts to,

I guess, dwell on that, I suppose, because it frames a relationship and then when the relationship doesn't work out, things like that can make it challenging. A hundred percent. And I'm also evolving as we humans do on a daily basis. But this is me sober, right? So my head is very clear. And he was in my life when I wasn't sober as well. So I decided to get sober during our engagement party, actually. And that was four years ago, basically end of July

of four years ago. So that is, it's just been interesting how much my life has changed. And yet it is, I know it is very sad and I feel it every day, multiple times a day. It's also a little empowering, I guess, at the same time. How so? Because I'm choosing my sobriety in myself, not in a selfish way. No, yeah. But like in a way where I am learning to love myself and have some self-respect. I think for a lot of people, I hate the word selfish. Because a lot of people take it that way. There's a lot of people who are selfish. We live in a selfish society where we're becoming as a whole more and more self-centered and more individualistic.

That said, there are a lot of people out there who need to focus on themselves. You have to. said there are a lot of people out there who need to focus on themselves who haven't given them themselves self-love or consideration who haven't invested in themselves as much as they've invested in other people etc etc and for those people i think it's it's not only okay i think it's needed for them to prioritize themselves because that's how can you love anyone if you don't love yourself yeah they just haven't done that yet for themselves. Or were raised with that in mind, right? Like you are who you're raised by unless you consciously untrain your brain. And, you know, unfortunately I've gone through trauma. I got sexually molested when I was a little girl. I have a wonderful mother. My father passed away a

few years ago, but they divorced when I was really young. And my stepdad, who plays the role as my father, definitely stepped in. But still, there was no clear father figure, right, in my life. And I then, you know, for me, love equaled abuse. Love equaled, you know, avoidant, you know, being that avoidant person where I became very anxious. Always I related that to love and I didn't understand or I couldn't accept nice people that would come around in my life, right? Nice dance partners when I competed, nice men in general was a turnoff to me. So I'm really, it's not just this divorce, right? Like I have to really be present and mindful with what I'm doing as far as, okay, how do I retrain that part of my brain where I can then manifest or attract,

you know, like to like. It's interesting. And how long have you been kind of working through this thought process? Is this since post-divorce or was that kind of, granted, obviously in marriage, you weren't thinking about dating, but even in your romantic relationship, I'm assuming this applies to all aspects of your relationships or all people you're interacting with. Especially myself.

How long have you been kind of on that kind of, it's the word journey. Journey. Yeah, but like that quest. I like journey. What's wrong with journey? It's overused.

We cover The Bachelor on this show. Oh, you do? Yeah, like journey. What's wrong with journey? It's overused. We cover The Bachelor on this show. Oh, you do? Yeah, the journey is sometimes. Is that what they use a lot? Journey. Oh, got it. Quest. Love quest.

It's like you have PTSD behind the word journey. I do a little bit. I get it. Anyway, so on your journey. Yes, yes, yes. That's a me problem. A quest. When did you have that realization about your relationship with, you know, specifically men or just, you know, mean or like how do you describe it in terms of how you responded to how people treated you?

And it was almost the opposite. You were validating the wrong behaviors. How long have you been working on that? Well, a long time. I mean, I've been in therapy since I was a little girl. My mom made sure of that when I was sexually abused and then testified against my abuser when I was nine. And then moving forward, it was like a decision I made when I first moved to LA in 2006.

I don't know if you remember or if anyone remembers, I was like on a daily on TMZ, that girl, right? Just like wasted and not proud of it. But definitely not going to hide it anyway. So that was me numbing through that whole time. Then I decided to go back into therapy. And since I've become sober, I've really done the nasty and work that nobody really wants to do as far as like looking inward and figuring out, you know, what are my patterns and do I like that? And how do I change it and what do

I need to do in order to first, I think it is definitely learning to respect myself and have boundaries. And that's been really as basic as that sounds. It's been something that I'm still working on and I think I will forever. What did it look like in terms of discovering what respecting yourself looks like in practice every day, like how did you discover that? Good question. Well, it really is about, you know, what are your top three or five things that you, there's non, that are non-negotiable as far as, you know, what is something that you'll take, whether that is somebody emotionally maybe abusing you or physically abusing you, like what, how do you want to be treated? How do you feel most respected versus, you know, oh, it's fine. It never happened. Like

I'm really good at pretending stuff never happened. When I was during in high school, you know, I was with two men who both emotionally and physically abused me. And it was that pattern of like, oh, it's fine. You know, he won't do it again. Like it was kind of trauma bonding where you just don't believe what you see. So like whether that be bruises or it could be emotional, you know, you somehow convince yourself that this never happened and then you go back. And so it's stuff like that, that like, okay, what do I deserve? But in order for that to happen, it's, you know, me, I have to

define that myself and, um, really lay down the law. And I think I went from not speaking up to being so, um, sensitive to any type of abuse or yelling even that that there is a gray area. I'm not saying yelling is okay, but I think that I'm in the process now of that gray area and trying to also learn to be vulnerable even if it's scary, even if that's not what I want to do because I definitely was in fight, flight, or freeze for the longest time of my life and maybe still am when I am not conscious. When you say gray area, I thought that was interesting because if I'm understanding what you're saying, I think it's very relatable too because you talked about all these things you've been through, which in the therapy and all the work you've put into it, right, which obviously

is not easy and awesome that you did that. And you were talking about how, yeah, that gray area, because I can see how that could be. And I feel like it's relatable where I see that where, you know, we experience something that, you know, whether it's something as serious as abuse or some other kind of, you know, or just disappointment or trauma, like maybe it's just heartbreaker. And then we learn about, we don't know what that is in the moment. We feel something and then we might learn about it through therapy, what that was. And I think sometimes we try to apply that knowledge in a way that's with the best intentions. Like you mentioned yelling, right?

Where it's just like you went from ignoring it to, no one can yell kind of thing, almost like, or reacting to, as opposed to finding that balance between, listen, this is toxic. This is abusive behavior. These are things I need to identify and be mindful of and call out or remove myself.

And then there's like being emotional, being human, reacting, and then being able in those situations to still allow our partners to feel yeah but keep them ground like have expectations of how how much they can express themselves in context have boundaries yes to say hey you know you can be mad but please don't talk to me that way depending on the yelling yeah if they're expressing them if someone is loud and they're yelling, I do tend to get sensitive to people, loud talkers.

That doesn't mean that that is abusive, right? Then it doesn't mean, depending on what the context is, what that person's yelling about, it may not even be directed at me. It may just be his way of expressing his emotion. And so I have to learn I'm very reactive. So instead of reacting, I have to respond, which means don't interrupt, means like really sit with your feelings and allow your feelings to happen. Like all of this stuff is so new to me to feel your feelings like I'm a professional

number, right? I've numbed my whole life. I think that's the reason why I didn't check into the nearest mental institution, honestly, from the day I got molested and all of that that happened. Great things happened in between. I'm not just talking about the negative stuff here, but like, since we're on this subject, you know, it really, it's a different way of thinking for me that I wish they would teach at schools and stuff like that, because this is all new. Thank you for sharing all that. Going through divorce, obviously, is not something people envision for themselves. It's

considered by many to be a really difficult time in their lives. And whether it's divorce or just heartbreak, you know, we on the show always try to make sure that we're just having the best possible without being, you know, cheerleaders or like annoyingly positive we're just trying to see you know challenge ourselves to have the best possible perspective on any given situation like you know if shit happens like we can i think it's important to acknowledge that we're sad or angry or disappointed like we don't have to numb ourselves or pretend it didn't happen let's let's acknowledge it but then let's try to work through it. And I'm wondering, having heard you talk about all these new things that you're discovering and learning and working on and still that process, even though you're going through this divorce,

right? Does that make you optimistic about the future in dating? Because I think a lot of people in your shoes will go through this period of, I never want to date again, or just kind of very negative about relationships and love. And I'm wondering, since you are learning all these things, you have so much more to apply. Do you find yourself really optimistic about your future in general and specifically around love, knowing that, well, if I can really hone in on this, I might have the chance to still have my healthiest relationship of all time? I mean, people ask me all the time in interviews, would I get married again? Absolutely. I'm not like,

I'm not jaded by, you know, men in general. And I definitely believe until, you know, what I'm trying to avoid and everyone's going to have their own opinion, right? A lot of my friends who not a lot, a few are divorced and they went straight back into dating. And it's like, went straight back into dating. And it's like, I want to break the pattern. And I definitely am obviously not 100% there yet. And I know that I'll never be 100% healed. And I know that I won't ever be 100% ready. But I know today, I do have more work to do in order to break the pattern. That's not easy to recognize. But it's awesome that you can do that because it can be scary to say, well, there's still some work to be done. I mean, I'll be a work in progress forever.

Does it also make you feel empowered at the same time to be able to kind of own that and still be like, I'm still okay. A hundred percent. I'm still here. I'm still thriving. Like when you asked me today, like, how are you? I'm like, I'm here. Like, and yeah, it gets lonely. I'm not going to deny that.

Yes, I maybe wish I was at least texting somebody. I mean, when I tell you, you guys, I'm not going to deny that yes I maybe wish I was at least texting somebody I mean I when I tell you you guys I'm not doing anything it's really like I'm living like a nun um which is not bad I mean if you're one you're a nun that's great um but like the non-community you don't want to get canceled I was you know baptized Catholic it's all good um but you know I also I have said this before you know it's been a year since I haven't had sex and that's fine too because you just get used to your normal pattern. But at the same time, it is empowering back to what you were saying, Nick, because I've never done this. I do owe this to myself more than anybody else. I tend to, or I did, people please. And within time alone you know when I'm not working I'm

working on myself that's awesome I want to say like what's something about divorce in general that you've learned I guess the hard way or just like a like a even a tidbit I don't know if it's about how lawyers play a role but this like something about the process because I don't think a lot of people do a lot of research on divorce before they get married. They don't really think about it until they're getting divorced. And I'm just wondering, do you have any insight on a nugget or two or something that you could be like, hey, if you're out there and you find yourself going down that path, consider X, Y, or Z? Yeah. The red flags, right? So if there are red flags from the beginning, maybe don't say I do. I'm not insinuating that there was on my end, but in

general, like if you can't talk about money or if you really have to separate yourself from the honeymoon phase, because it's very like nowadays, I do believe that the messaging when it comes to our society today is the wrong messaging. Now, if you want to do the research, regardless of how much research you do as far as divorce or marriage goes, it's going to be your own experience regardless. And I do believe that people are going to have that. But I can talk about only so much when it comes to my divorce. But we definitely had a prenup, and we had a confidentiality and NDA in it, which means that I just can't talk detail.

But what I did learn from this is that it takes time. Just because you have a prenup in place doesn't mean you're going to get divorced tomorrow, especially in California. I think prenups can be... Do you believe in it? Prenups, yeah.

I think they can, they make sense. The NDA... Well, when you're in this business. I guess. Yeah, it's very important. But yeah, I think they make sense. The NDA. Well, when you're in this business. I guess. Yeah. It's very important. But yeah, I think when it comes to marriage, it's not what it used to be in terms of how society views it or its legal aspects or why people got married. It had a lot of different meanings 100 years ago. Oh, yes.

And so it just hasn't kept up with the times. And therefore, we now operate. A few things haven't. Yeah. I mean, marriage might be till death do us part, but most people don't subscribe to that mentality anymore. No, no. And therefore, the idea that you're getting married

and you're sharing all your assets and everything you've ever owned and you could be married for a month or 10 years, it's just kind of weird. That, to me, isn't necessarily taking responsibility over your own life, too. You are your own individual, and with that comes history. Maybe you have family assets. You just need to think with your brain at that moment, I think.

Yeah, I think it's, at the end of the day, marriage. And if you love each other, it shouldn't matter. Yeah, marriage is a contractual agreement. And if you ever talk with lawyers, the reason why you ever get lawyers is what I've heard. And it made a lot of sense is that you get lawyers for not what you think is going to happen. It's for the things that like you imagine would never happen. Right. And they're not thinking with their heart. And if, and if, but if they do, you've got lawyers for it. That's why you get a lawyer. Because if you're like, oh, this will never happen,

then there would be no need for lawyers. Because often things that we think will never happen. Or not think that will, yeah, exactly. Would you make your loved one sign one or vice versa? I think it's a healthy discussion to have with couples. And I think to your point, like you said, finances are a big part of things and every situation is different i don't think in any way the person some i don't think anyone in a relationship who thinks it makes sense for them to have a prenup should be made to

feel bad about it or it's not romantic or have it be used against them or weaponized in any way i think i mean childbirth isn't romantic either yeah to be quite honest um yeah i'm i'm fine with it how so you said something earlier that i wanted to go back to like you said like i you know have conversation like if it's a red flag then it might still be a red flag but how would cheryl when you start dating like how would you address me like you meet someone you have a nice date it's going really well but they say one or two things you're just like i don't know maybe red, like how would you address me? Like you meet someone, you have a nice day, it's going really well, but they say one or two things. You're just like, I don't know, maybe red flag. Like, how do you, how do you think you'll go about figuring out whether this red flag is a non-negotiable or like a pet peeve, something you can get over, you know? So I have like a top three things that I, um, now it's all new to me, as I said, but, um,

accountability is very important to me. Holding I said, but, um, accountability is very important to me. Holding yourself accountable for whatever it is, not blaming. Right. So that's one. Number two is, um, honesty, loyalty. Um, trust is a huge thing for me for obvious reasons from my past. And then three would be definitely someone who can support himself would help. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you… So that's the thing. I won't even date you.

I won't even… Whatever I end up doing, I'm trying to avoid dating apps, but a matchmaker, whoever the matchmaker is, I will say it nice and clear. I mean, this is what it is. And then maybe we can get to the, okay, well, maybe I can like try it, even if it's a pet peeve. Well, it's funny you say that because Lori Harvey had an interview that a lot of people are talking about.

She- Steve Harvey's daughter. Oh. Yeah. And she- Was dating- Yes. Michael B. Jordan.

Michael B. Jordan. They broke up earlier in June. And they were in a really serious, really loving relationship. And in a recent interview, she was asked what her biggest red and green flags are. And her green flags, very similar to yours, were transparency, openness, and communication. One of the red flags she mentioned was if you're too close to your exes. And I'm curious if that's something you also categorize as a red flag or kind of what you look for in terms of dynamics with current partners. Yeah.

How they treat their exes. I hear you. How they treat or their relationship with them. Either. Well, sure, both. But like I think one's like how they speak about their exes, important. But how they. But it's part of trust, right?

It falls under that umbrella. So like, and it's also part of within the trust and the honesty and all of that is the, how open are you? Like how, so for example, I dry hump people for a living. That's what I do. I ballroom dance. She means dancing. Yeah. I'm a ballroom dancer and I'm like, hey, nice to meet you.

Let's rumba, right? Constantly. And I am pretty sure that some of my exes, including my ex-husband, probably don't necessarily feel that comfortable if they were really to sit down and imagine it. Not their favorite thing. No. Probably like a nine to five would be like less stressful, but I do make it a habit to say it as it is,

whether that my partner's hitting on me, whether my partner's maybe gay or no worries, you got nothing to worry about. Or like, it's so important to not wait to have these conversations because you put yourself and I hate this but like i don't like necessarily like to compare like put yourself in that person's shoes because no matter what that's never going to happen right like everybody is their own individual but if i if he was on set

he you know was an act or is an actor i would expect the same treatment back like i don't need to get to that point of jealousy or to where we're hiding stuff from each other this is reminding me i think might be what you're saying it would remind one a huge pet peeve of mine is when my partner plays dumb right and when you know it's just like make you jealous no no because you were saying you know if i have a dance partner let's say they're they're hitting on me or something you want to just put it out there with whoever you're dating and just have that be something that you're both on the same page. And what I'm saying is sometimes I think people in relationships will,

oh, they're not flirting or whatever. I hate it when people play dumb as opposed to just like, let's just, especially in a relationship. A serious one. Everyone, I can be accused of maybe saying things that don't need to be said i can be totally honest and candid and i and and certain social surroundings maybe i'm too transparent i don't know but when it comes to my relationships i'm just saying in general but when it comes to my relationship let's just like call everything what it is let's just name whatever it is let's not pretend there's something

going on and there's nothing that makes you wonder like are you just saying that because like then you're like wait no wait so he is flirting yeah like exactly and if you're playing dumb or if you're trying to pretend something is when we both know what it is then that's a red flag for me that's a yeah unless if that person's aloof in general then it's kind of your your bad aloof sure but like yeah yeah no when they're actively being like no that's not what it is it's like no you're in denial yeah or they're so scared to hurt you right so that's that is also another red that's a huge red flag like don't people don't say stuff because you think i'm going to react a certain way it just it's also just like it's an excuse that's bullshit they

don't care about people to have feelings. That's normal to be angry. They don't care about your feelings. They just care about not being in trouble. Do you think some people are naturally predisposed to be more jealous than others? Or do you think it's really just a matter of people who are on different parts of the journey of doing their work and kind of sitting with themselves? I'm definitely a jealous person. And I think that comes from not a stable father figure in my life and seeing love as maybe not the normal way to love. And I definitely am calling it out because I believe when you call something out, it takes the shame away, but it also, it helps me with my work at the moment. And where does jealousy come from? From feeling not good enough.

Yeah. I mean, I've always said, like I've always, it comes from insecurity of not being good enough oh yeah whatever yeah i mean really you know like in a relationship like the way you described it like i think for most people jealousy either comes from something from your past or something from the relationship or maybe you're guilty yeah but like sure well yeah well to your point if it's jealousy in the relationship maybe you're cheating you become the jealous person but that jealousy is coming from this insecurity of i stepped out of the relationship and what's stopping them from stepping out too like you said your problem your jealousy you referenced your relationship with your father or lack thereof

and that maybe is creating an insecurity about your relationship with men. Well, the infidelity. My dad was a womanizer, so I saw that, right? My dad literally was a very successful lawyer in the Bay Area and followed his passion, P-U-S-S-Y, and opened up a bunch of strip clubs in Thailand. So I definitely saw it a different way, right? And my mother made sure that I was always visiting my dad, didn't go to the strip clubs just to be clear but like um not till i was 18 at least but definitely you know saw a different

definition of what i was seeing in the movies and what i thought love was and maybe that's where it came from as well as you know me being molested when I was a little girl. Dancing with the Stars. Do you have any tea? Speaking of. The transition. What a great one. Hard pivot. Such a great one. It's now streaming. Yes.

Disney Plus. I don't know if you can talk about whether you're going to be on it or not, but what are your thoughts in general about the show's transitioning from ABC to Disney Plus? And is that an experience that you'd be interested in being a part of how do you think it can be different or will be different general thoughts well I think this is where

everything's going to be heading towards eventually especially when it comes to a show that you're actively voting and West Coast at the time when we were on ABC couldn't really vote live because they never saw the dances so it was a popularity contest and East coast was the only coast that was able to see it and vote because the phone lines are only open for a couple hours. So that's great. It's fair now, um, after 30 seasons, no, I'm kidding. Um, but Disney plus, I think is going to be, um, a different experience. And I think it's great. I think it's great that the show wants to evolve and try something new, but the show is going to be a full two hours. There's no commercial breaks as we talked about before we did

this. And it really is scary for people like us pro dancers. Cause we're like, if we get our first dance and it's not the same 60 seconds and it's like 90 seconds and you're like, Oh crap, that means it's just only going to get longer and longer. And as easy as it looks like what we're doing is like, oh, they're not, their heart rate's not even up. That's not true, right? Like, as you know, it's full on. This is a sport and I call it dance sport because it is very athletic. And the longer the dance is, the harder it is for the both of us, meaning both pro and celebrity. Do you feel like when you're dancing, you tend to kind of carry whatever like emotional state that you're in to your performance in your work? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. It's authentic. I mean, for me, it is at least. I actually, that's my pet peeve is seeing people rehearse their faces

in the rehearsal studio. I just can't handle it. And I'll tell my partner right away. I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like, well, you know, I have to like smile. I said, what? You don't have to. Who are guilty big face rehearsers? No, no, no.

Don't you dare. I have to ask. I've learned my lesson. I have to do my job, Cheryl. I understand. And I don't have to ask. Answer your question. Fair enough.

What's your favorite? I've had 25 of them, so you can guess. What's your favorite like week every so you can guess what's your favorite like week every year like do you have a certain either dance style or like theme night that you just like look forward to i mean i competed um since i was 11 years old and i specialize in the latin dances so cha-cha samba rumba pasta doubly and jive don't love jive though but um and then i went to argentina when they added argentine tango and was a part of this Argentine tango group

called Forever Tango. Gosh, I love Argentina. I would live there in two seconds. Argentine tango. I liked the Argentine tango. Yeah,

it's hot. Fun dance. Yeah. I mean, the guys don't really do much. I'm kidding. The guys leave. That's probably why

I thought it was easy. Yeah. You had a good experience though, right? I loved it. Yeah. You do again?

For sure. They did a Bachelor Nation Dancing with the Stars season. Sign me up. Oh my God. That's a really interesting pitch. Well, we're no longer on ABC. Instead of Paradise? Yeah, it's no longer on ABC.

The Bachelor Dancing with the Stars. I think they should do every single contestant that was injured. I'd enjoy it. I don't think I would do well. I mean, don't manifest it. Maybe it was your partner. Just kidding. I love you, PETA. No, it was injured. I'd enjoy it. I don't think I would do well. I mean, don't manifest it. Maybe it was your partner. Just kidding.

I love you, PETA. That was great. No, it was me. I could have, I would have had, I would have more fun. Really? Yeah.

It's still scary. I mean, what you guys do, you have to be vulnerable throughout this experience because when you try, I've said this before, when you try and be cool, when ballroom dancing is not cool,

like we're not trying to be cool, right? Like you actually look ridiculous if you try to be cool it's like you have to make fun of us yeah i just wish i would have enjoyed it more i think i tried you just was you were nervous yeah i was nervous yeah and this time you just wouldn't be i wish i would i would try to be less i would try to be how i was after i was eliminated and they would bring you back to dance your dances and you're just like you just don't care that the best? And you're just like. You just don't care.

And you have more swag. You're just more into it. You're just more like less like you just don't care. You're just not. Right. And that's when you're the most successful for sure.

I believe that. Yeah. What do we think about Olivia Wilde and Jason Sudeikis? That story has kind of resurfaced. No nothing. Okay. So for a little bit of background.

So Olivia Wilde was speaking at CineCon, which is an event that was attended by industry executives. So very much like in addition to a public appearance, it's a very like professional appearance for her and was served on stage in the front of everyone was served documents. Wait, what? Like child custody documents.

No, I hear you, but that's why they couldn't wait until she was off stage. And so that's kind of, so now she's recently made a statement. Jason Sudeikis' team. Wait, why would he want that for her? I don't know, but the verdict, no Ted Lasso. Wait, what do you mean? Have you seen Ted Lasso?

Yes, I do love Ted Lasso. Well, it doesn't seem like Jason. But it makes me not want to watch it now. He's not very Ted Lasso. Not very Ted Lasso. He's not that vulnerable, like, sweet, endearing man. Totally. Do you think you do that a lot? I mean, he's a petty prick. I mean,so. He's not that vulnerable, like sweet, endearing man. Totally. Do you think you do that a lot? I mean, he's a petty prick. I mean, sure.

Do you believe that he was involved with it? Like, do you think he knew? Listen, I mean, we also don't know the backstory. Has it been hard for her? Like, have they been trying to serve her or have they been trying to do it nicely? It doesn't sound like it. Well, no, normally you do do it.

And I just know from experience. Like, you normally do it in a conventional way first. You don't just get served. Like you get an email first, actually. Totally. And you can respond or not. And if you don't respond, you're going to get served. And then your lawyers can get together and figure.

If you have one, you better. Or if you don't, just communicate. Like I don't have one yet. I'm in the middle of whatever that thing she was at. And I can't get to this right now. But a response would stop that from happening i see both sides so the question is was there overtures made prior to this is that has that been like cleared up yet we just don't know both sides unfortunately or what did she say though but like because this because you don't i just know from experience no i know that but this broke a while ago and i

think that the discourse was that was very much that. It was like, well, wait. I thought there was commentary, too, of like when the serving happened, it being like Jason had no idea of the timing of this. Like I think there was like some effort made to protect his reputation. But you do know, like, look, obviously he wanted to serve her. So they were like, where is she going to be on this date? Like there was some sort of

like something, whether they looked online or if they don't communicate. Didn't he have a quote? Well, so Sudeikis maintains that according to an LA Times article, the processor,

like the server, attempted to serve Wilde at her hotel in Las Vegas, but failed and changed track upon recognizing Wilde on stage during the Warner Brothers presentation. Oh, see, I believe that. I actually believe that. Yeah, but you and changed track upon recognizing Wilde on stage during the Warner Brothers presentation.

Oh, see, I believe that. I actually believe that. Yeah, but you don't think... Listen, I think his job, maybe he got busted for not serving her in Vegas. That's their job. That's their sole job is to serve somebody, whether they're in front of people or not. So you're saying Olivia... It's embarrassing.

Absolutely. But you think she wasn't playing ball with jason's team and i just think that maybe they just missed each other maybe it was really like that like they tried in vegas mister and you know when you serve somebody the goal is to serve them regardless of the situation i just like i do brought it to her dressing room i mean also he could have but what if they what if they missed her yeah like what if they couldn't get back there? Honestly, I see both sides. I'm not citing, but I just experienced some things, too.

So it's like, you got to serve when you got to serve. What was the green line test you wanted to go for? Oh, okay. Very quickly. Yeah. Before we get to our callers. Sure. So the green line test, this is something that came to fruition. Green line or light?

Green line. Line. So it's something that kind of like started out on the internet and had a lot of buzz like around like May. And basically what it is, when you look at a photo of a couple,

you can draw a green line, like it doesn't actually need to be green. It's just catchier that way. Yeah, it's just body language. And so what it is, is it's saying like when you draw from like the kind of their center,

if you notice that he seems to be really fixated. Who's leaning? Yeah. That's basically the question. And it's kind of like a power thing. Body's he seems to be really fixated who's leaning yeah basically the question and it's kind of like body language says a lot i'm sure actually coming out with a dance program not to toot my own horn or promote anything that's not even out yet but um called body language because there's you know movement through therapy but you can also just read people's body and language that we sometimes take for granted. So I do kind of believe what he's saying. The person leaning closer is the one

that is more into that person versus the other. I guess the big question is like, if you take any one photo, it's like casting a judgment by watching an episode of The Bachelor. I mean like, well, that person's a prick. What if that person tripped and was leaning towards the girl?

Or you had a moment where you're like, why don't you ever show me your love? And then the person was like, oh, and they took a picture. You do, though. I think maybe you need more than one. But if you see like 10 photos of a similar body language, I think you can make some judgments. I agree.

And then especially 10 different times and moments, right? And the innovator said that he could have predicted the Kim Kardashian-Pete Davidson split because of the Green Line test, because Pete is continually leaning in. Oh, I would think it'd be the other way. I feel like a lot of people predicted that. But also, Pete was so much taller than Kim.

You know what I mean? Like, there's other aspects. Oh, you're right. There's definitely holes. Like, he was tiny. Of course he's leaning down towards her. Yeah. Yeah.

Totally. Not what you want to do in ballroom, just saying. But, yeah, I guess. Do you lean towards Natalie or does she lean towards you? The man's the frame. I don't know. I suspect

How tall is she? She leans more but I think we have a pretty mutual. Lean? Lean. You guys are like the leaning tower of Pisa.

They support each other. I'm guessing if you looked at all of our photos Let me see your pictures. would be some reciprocity. If anyone at home wants to do this for themselves, you just go to your photo, draw a line kind of in the angle that you're at. I'm sure I've leaned.

I'm sure she's leaned. And it is one of those things where like in like I guess you can chalk it up to hindsight being 2020. But there are certain photos of couples where like you look at the green line test and you're like, wow, this is really insightful of the dynamic. Sure, you're like that person hates them, their partner or something like that. Look, I'm very sensitive to touch. I'm very sensitive obviously because I'm a dancer. But I actually have two therapists, a cognitive therapist and a somatic therapist. And somatic is more about like the body and like we hold on to trauma like animals do, except animals don't have PTSD

because what they do is they shake it out. They shake. They literally, when you see your dog shaking, they're shaking out trauma. So they don't hold on to any trauma. So this guy named Dr. Peter Levine went into- I thought he was wet. Well, if dry, most likely they are shaking out trauma.

They get traumatized every time they go in the water. No, true, actually true. Jeff becomes tiny. Of course They get traumatized every time they go in the water. No, true. Actually true. Jeff becomes tiny. Of course he's traumatized. Totally. But what's fascinating to me is just all of that, like the fact that we tend to try and put language to our feelings sometimes when it's not possible. Or for some people it's not. I know for me it's a lot harder to call it out by words, but I can feel the trauma.

me, it's a lot harder to call it out by words, but I can feel the trauma. And if we would be more, I guess, intentional about not saying like we would shake out, like if God forbid me and you got in a car accident and we walked out of the car and we would just shake it out, actually, we actually wouldn't deal with any PTSD. But I'm not saying like this is not normal in society today, but there is a lot of trauma we hold on into our bodies that if intentional, you can actually take out. That's actually, that's really interesting. That's why I'm starting body language because I think it's very important. Totally. That we, some people don't like cognitive therapy. A lot of people can't talk about it

or they can't afford it. So come to body language. All right. Texting office hours. How's it going? Hi, Nick. I'm Zoe. I'm 31. Hi, Zoe. How can we help? All right. So basically, I need you to help me shoot my shot here. Okay. So basically, here's a little bit of a rundown. I'm going to give you a little lowdown about what happened. So about a year ago, I matched with this guy on Hinge. We messaged on the app for about three weeks. We never ended up meeting in real life. I ended up getting back together with my ex. So I unmatched him and got

off Hinge. So about six months ago, I see this guy, the guy that I matched with on Hinge at my gym. And the funny thing about this is while we were messaging, I told him about my gym and suggested that he go and try it out. While he was there, neither of us acknowledged each other. And then a couple weeks later, do you think he recognized you? I mean, you know, you recognize him and ignored him. Do you, what do you think? I think he did recognize me. And just because he like, there'd be situations where he needed like a towel to clean the equipment off behind me. And he would literally go all around the gym. Gotcha. Purposely.

And do you, when you got back with your ex, did you just, I mean, granted you had only messaged on a dating app, right? Did you exchange cell phone numbers or were you only texting on the dating app? We were only texting on the dating app. And then you essentially just kind of ghosted him, I'm guessing, right? Because like there was no need for a breakup. Yeah. I mean, it's technically unclear because i don't have anything to refer to i don't know if he stopped messaging

me back and it was like a couple days before i just kind of like busted out but you just got back your ex kind of forgot about him altogether and you don't really know how he internalized this moment maybe he was matched with 15 other women. We don't know. Maybe he thought you were the one and he went on some other podcasts and talked about it. Yeah, exactly. That could definitely have happened. We don't really know. Okay. But either way, you realize X, no good. Now we're back. We're single. We're back on the market. You are at the gym in which you suggested. Yes. Well, you haven't in yeah and like a couple weeks after i saw him at the gym he friend requested me on facebook so like he definitely knows who i am knows my last name so what do you what so what i mean

thank you for like believing in us to help you like draft a message but what what's the holdup i feel like this is well i don't know what to say it's been like so long now that it's like awkward like do i bring it up do i say hey sorry i ghosted you do i do it in person because i actually have like that opportunity to do it in person or should i do it on facebook in case like maybe he's like well you rejected me he facebook requested you yeah so maybe he just wants to be friends. Maybe he's not into the date. Does he know that she ghosted him? He knows.

I mean, I don't know if anyone really ghosted anyone, but she moved on. Right. And there wasn't much of a relationship to ghost. Right. Right. Yeah, it was all communication. Well, you didn't move on. You went backwards.

But either way. That's okay. Listen, so did I. I married it. What would you feel? What's most comfortable? I mean, I could do it in person. I'm not that shy.

Here's what I would say if you send a message. Okay. It's real simple. Do you want to just go on a date with the guy? Right? Yeah, sure. I mean, yeah. I was hoping that he would ask me on a date when we were talking for those three weeks you send him a

message and you say and let me know if you guys disagree but i think we have it and it's hey um i think it's only fair that you take me out for a coffee for the amazing jing recommendation or something like that cute i like it i like that but put a comma after the amazing Jane recommendation or something like that. Cute. I like it. I like that. Put a comma after the hey. And if you want a drink or whatever it is, a meal of food, I don't know. I like to keep it simple.

But I think coffee is real simple, real basic. And it's flirty. It's flirty. Yeah, that's a fun text. I like it. Nick, I'm texting you the next time I need a texter. Well, this one's particularly, it is a bit of a layup. I suck at texting.

That's what my sister said. She's like, this is a slam dunk. Yeah. I mean, Facebook requested you. Yeah. That's your sign right there. And you both have just been too chicken to say hi at the gym, which I totally get because it's a weird place at the gym. I don't know.

Men are told not to approach women at the gym like i don't know like i don't know men are told not to approach women um what at the gym i don't i mean i don't i have a trainer yeah i think there's been a string of bad behavior yeah so men in general do you get like this mass email that says don't approach women there's just like there's just a lot of there's uh, it's the bad apple thing. There's enough of bad apples out in the world that ruin it for the rest of us, so to speak. And in social situations like working out at a gym where people like to work out and maybe they're not feeling the most secure self because they're sweating or working out. And it's like some people can be annoying and obnoxious when they hit on people in public yeah and you want to feel safe too as a woman i think that's probably why i hate gyms so if you're a guy you really need to have a game plan and you really need to

feel pretty confident about about that otherwise you know it's yeah it's gonna be a nervous thing so it makes sense why maybe he to me the Facebook friend request is I definitely remember you I saw you okay don't know what you're up to these days but

it was him almost sending like a right like he probably doesn't even feel rejected by you okay you don't think so

I don't know your relationship didn't even evolve outside of a text messaging on a dating app I wouldn't call that much 2022

yeah but chances are he's okay he didn't even evolve outside of a text messaging on a dating app i wouldn't call that much 2022 yeah but chances are he's okay he didn't you know he survived whatever loss he felt upset or else he wouldn't facebook request you yeah so i think to send that that's a good one i only think it's fair that you buy me a coffee cup of coffee for the amazing gym recommendation. All right. Should I do it today? Do it right now. Do it right now as we sit here. I'll see you at the gym in like an hour. Even better. Yeah, perfect.

And if he doesn't go up to you after that, then I'd be like, bye. Also, it's a Facebook message. I don't know how often he checks Facebook. It might go right to his phone. It might be instantaneously. I don't remember the last time I checked Facebook. I haven't checked a Facebook message in four years years when was the last time you requested somebody on facebook in a minute 40 years yeah um but he clearly uses it so yeah he doesn't i don't have

instagram or anything maybe give him should she give his like her cell so they don't have to continue doing this oh i love that should i do that yeah what if she just does the original message sees what he says and then says text me that's the second one the other option would be like original message and then cell phone number

nothing else yeah you could just put the number on the bottom and your name no you don't need your name just kidding you're doing Facebook

you're good no name love I don't think you need it but I'm more than fine with I think it's only fair that you buy me a cup of coffee for the amazing gym recommendation,

and then just put your number on there. Text me. Okay. All right. Yeah, that sounds good. Sext me. I will have to keep you guys updated. Let us know.

All right. Sounds good. I think it's going to go well. All right. Thank you for your help, guys. All right. Take care. Bye-bye.

How's it going? Hi. I'm Hannah. I'm 26. Hi, Hannah. How can we help? I'm from Canada. Okay. Bye-bye. Because I'm having difficulty with a guy. And I don't know if this is going to be like a text, like a what's the deal text, or if it should be a text to prompt me up and talk about it, or if I should just go cold and see what happens, which is what my dad thinks I should do. Okay, well, tell me about this guy and the expectations or the situation you're in with him. Yeah. in this in this in the expectations or the situation you're in with him yeah um so i met him on tinder pass for uh april 2020 at the height of the pandemic um we started talking every day we've actually talked every day since then every day um every day on whats WhatsApp without fail every day. We also started FaceTiming regularly, like during the month. Oh, you FaceTimed. Okay. So he is, that's my first concern.

He's not a catfish. He's not a catfish. And I've also Googled him and he does what he says he does. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like every day is intense for having not met someone for two years.

I know. And usually those are called catfishes. All right. But you have, you've seen them in a FaceTime? Yep. Then it'd be like you and I. From head to toe? Yeah.

Exactly. And he gave you a name and you Googled and it all matched up. But you've done you've done some research okay all right so yeah not a catfish i feel like i did what i could okay yeah yeah not a catfish then we started expressing interest in each other which kind of happened naturally talking every day um then we started talking about visiting each other's countries when covid restrictions lifted um and that was pretty good. I feel like there's this, there was a slight hiccup earlier this year, I was thinking about coming to Europe to see him.

Also, I wanted to also come back here because I was on exchange earlier in 2020 and had to go home early. So I was already wanting to come back here. But yeah, so we kind of had this preliminary plan. He was like, oh, you can come stay with me for two or three weeks, whatever. You're currently in the Netherlands to see him? Partially to see him. But after that whole conversation with him, oh, actually, I did have a conversation. I was like, do you want to still meet after this and he's like yes like he still wanted to really meet me to see where things go um but I also knew I needed to have my own plans so I also um came I got a house um to sublet for a month and I'm looking for jobs um I have like plans to travel around. So I made it like pretty clear to him and also for myself that I'm not just here to see you.

But of course, I was super excited to see this guy. But you're not, you didn't just like take a quick trip. You're like settling in. Wait, between girls, are you there? You're there to see him. I mean. Yes. Okay. So I've been here a month and I've

seen him four times you have seen him is there a connection there's um he seems to keep trying to well not trying to but it seems like he doesn't really prioritize seeing me that much um and now I've been here for a month and I still haven't found employment and i'm going to have to like start jumping around soon so i'm kind of like i'm looking at leaving in september got it you sent us some messages yeah uh we can do a dramatic reading for context but can you give us i don't know if it'll work as a dramatic reading it'll be funny either way but like why did you choose why did you choose to send us these messages give us some context behind what we're about to read um it depends

which one you're reading but if it's the first two it was kind of like it was an example of a time where he changed the time or made it a certain day because he's like oh i feel tired today and i feel like i will also feel tired tomorrow and want to go to bed early. And there's another one with a coffee, an iced coffee. Yeah. And I kind of invite him to hang out with me. And he's like, oh, I want to read my book. Instead.

Is he green or white in this conversation? Drinking at this? He's white. Okay. So you wrote drinking this at a cafe and probably going to read in the park later that's cute uh you are of course more than welcome to join for any of that but also i know it's your last day off and that you may want an introvert date it does he identify as an introvert? Yes. Okay. That matters. Yeah. Which is fair, yeah.

He's one of the best books he's read. Books tasty, iced coffee, compliments on your drink. Thanks for invite, but I'll indeed stay home today. I feel like I need it. Who said that? He did. So what's... I guess so what's...

So you've hung out with him four times. Have you guys hooked up? Yes. Have you hooked up every time you hung out with him four times have you guys hooked up yes have you hooked up every time you hung out or one time no I thought I was friend zoned after the second time um and then the third time we met up he bought dinner and then we went back to his house and he made a move and then we hooked up what about the fourth time so wait how about the first time did you hook up the first time no no no no first and second time we did not then she thought she got friends

and then he was like just kidding dinner and sex and then what happened on the fourth day yeah the fourth day so the third day i feel like was like oh this is actually really good and he like had a toothbrush for me and was like expecting me to stay over for you oh yeah it was clean it was for the package it was like a clean one how many clean ones does he have well you know he could just have extra toothbrushes yeah for them for those i know did he have an electric toothbrush or did he use the same type of toothbrush out of the pack my dad's a dentist you get it at costco or wherever you guys get your bulk from. No, no, no, but I'm saying like he has an electric.

But he's like, oh, I have a toothbrush for you. And he pulled it out of a pack of clearly ones he doesn't use. Totally, totally. But also offers to the ladies of the night. Right, right, right, right. That's what I mean. Yeah. Which one was it?

He does have an electric toothbrush. Oh, yeah, the electric toothbrush. But potentially for travel. He's also cheap no no i'm kidding yeah all right do you know he goes to the dentist often often so you were never we know you weren't the first person he's hooked up with it's fine but no it's not are you dating other people not the most fun realization. I was. I'm not since being here, but yeah, I have. So how did fourth date go? How did fourth date end? Fourth date was, it felt a little bit weird vibes.

I went over to his house. He cooked dinner and we talked until 11 p.m. just at his kitchen table. And then he started getting tired. And I was like, oh, it's probably time for me to go. Then I made a move. And then we hooked up again. But it just felt like, I don't know.

Okay. So here's my question to you. A little bit more awkward. All right. So this is obviously a very unique story. You've invested a lot of energy in this person. Two years worth of energy. So whatever.

That's fine. You know, not, you know, we had a pandemic. We, we, you made a connection with someone. It was fun. But my question to you is now, what do you, what do you want? Like, what do you want to, like, you've, you've had four dates with this guy. I understand that you've invested a lot. You've really had a chase. It sounds like, so that makes you kind of vulnerable, but have you taken any time, any moments of just self-reflection to say what do i think of this guy after four dates what do i think about having sex with him you you don't live there like so do you want to date this guy like do you like and what does that even look like if

you did like have you know what i'm saying like i think yeah you need to have some of these thoughts before you sit there and worry about what he's thinking. What he's thinking. You got to live for you. So where are you at with that? Yeah. Well, I'm at like meeting him in person. It's kind of grounded me in reality where it's like, okay, definitely not perfect. There's still things I like about him, but it's just not.

Like his face or his attitude or both? Both. But it does seem harder to click with him in person. So I feel like what I would want is to be able to spend more time with him just because I'm all this way. We've talked all this time and I feel like I would really want to get to know someone better in person. Okay. And then also, I think if we are not clicking well in person, then I also need to cut off this talk exchange that we have. Well, yeah. I mean, because you got to think about his point of view, right?

Like, these are always awkward situations. Like, you have this huge build. You guys are talking every day. I'm sure those conversations at times were intense. You felt a lot of chemistry with him at times. And you probably got to know each other a lot, but all without any physical connection, never meeting in person.

Then you finally, after like him dating someone else, you finally go out and you go across the world. You go to Europe and you finally meet him in person. And it's like, you know, sounds like it was pretty good. Whatevs. Yeah. You had some sex. But like, I would think both of you are very, like you haven't, neither of you, it sounds

like you've talked about like next steps or what this looks like if you guys do hang out. And you're not talking about it. He's not talking about it. So it's not uncommon for people who aren't communicating effectively to just, you know, pull away. Yeah. So. And that might turn him on.

Maybe. I don't know. Well, I don't think you should play games. What I think you should do. No. It is. Is I think. If you want to turn away, turn away.

Well, if you don't, don't, don't go to a park and send him a picture of coffee and hope that he wants to join you. Especially if this guy's like, you know, he's got his job he has his priorities uh it's always in and and if you ask someone to reach out like to hang out in the next 10 minutes or the same afternoon it's just a very easy out oh i have this i have that i'm busy i don't feel like it right so yeah next time you if you want to shoot your shot so to speak if you want to send a text you need to plan something hey yeah i'd love to see you again let's do something whatever it is so have an idea i want have you ever tried this i've been looking at that or and

if he and if he's like a debbie dunner and and shoots you down for all those things you just say well i'd like to see you again and that way at least you get an answer in this situation of his desire to see you overall you know and just try to keep it simple i do think next time you hang out if you get him to hang out like it wouldn't make sense for you guys to just be like to accelerate you know like you know how on the bachelor i don't know if you watch that but like shit goes fast they have conversations fast and you otherwise would you guys are in this kind of agreed unique situation and this agreement has been to like hang out and and invest every day of conversations and now that you are in each other's company you're not crazy for wanting to have a conversation about a guy you've talked to

every fucking day for the better part of two years and now you're seeing in person and then you've had some sex and you're not crazy for being like no you're not hey like i like you like it seems like i i don't really know a ton about you i'm realizing now are you just like over this yeah and that's fine i think you need some clarity to figure out yeah and i think you need to start like putting it out there and stop waiting on him and just saying, I just like, and you're going to be chill about it, you know. But first make a plan. Hey, let's hang out.

What are you doing this week? Very open-ended. And don't change who you are. I'd love to see you again. Either like be you, be you, you know. Forget his reaction. I know it's easier said than done. Believe me.

I was definitely in your situation. I dated a guy in England and I chased forget his reaction. I know it's easier said than done. Believe me. I was definitely in your situation. I dated a guy in England and I chased after his ass. Yeah. It's fun. The accents make me lace up my running shoes. If no matter what, you're going to look back at this experience memorably and with a smile. That I have no doubt. No, and you will learn something from this experience for sure.

But as far as this, i think you need to like i i would honestly like not sun corny take take an afternoon go back to the park drink it right get a coffee and truly think about like all right what do you like about him so far like what do you like about what you've gotten to know in person i would and when you think about that i would almost if you can try to forget about the past two years and just think about what your interactions have been. And are those interactions ones that you find attractive? And you have to consider, is he worth it to you? Is he worth you being in the Netherlands? You know, I mean, it's a lovely place. Oh, I like it here anyway.

Yeah. I mean, like, but also like, but your friends and family and maybe, maybe he was a catalyst. I don't know, but also like, but your friends and family and maybe, maybe he was a catalyst. I don't know, but I really would think about what you, what you want. Yeah. And then if you say, well, what I want is like, I don't know, like I do like him and I, he's not perfect, but like, I do like a lot of things about him. I want to learn more than then plan the date and then, and then you deserve to check in and get an update from him about where he is

yeah so that's something i should do i like that with him in person yeah i think well don't forget the list though that's very important what nick said the likes and dislikes don't forget the dislikes yeah yeah yeah i haven't tried to do that i'm like okay ideally do it in person i mean listen like if you keep trying to make a plan it keeps avoiding you i think you have your answer not yeah i think so too. Write the list in person in front of him. No kidding. But also like if I'm you,

don't you want to get some clarity on this situation so that if you find out like maybe he's just not into it, you can start fucking some other guys from the Netherlands? Because there's other hotties out there. Yeah, the Dutch are beautiful. They really are. They ride in their bicycles. Listen, if that's your type, go get them.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you go on some dating app and be like a hot Canadian chick. If she went back on the dating apps out in the Netherlands, she'd get some action. Probably. You're beautiful, by the way. You really are really cute. I do have a really lovely energy that I think people will pick up on.

The Dutch will love. They'll be all on top of that. So think about that, right? And have that mindset. And that will help you put out to him what you were looking for with confidence. And as someone who isn't there to waste their time. Because you never want to look like the person who has that kind of false confidence. Be like, I know who I am.

But really, all you really want is for them to, you know, hang out with you. And yeah, but like, you know that like, like, while I'm here, I'm gonna have some fun, whether it's with you or someone else. So like, what do you want to do? Yeah. If you really want to become like a fucking ninja, make a plan. Is he still hanging out with you? Like, you could be like, what are you doing tonight?

Be like, I got a date. Oh my God. I love that. Yes, please. Please do that. Please. I could. I could.

But don't lie. Have a date. Yeah. Like are you? Yeah. So line up a date. Definitely. Go get a date.

Even if it's with yourself. Just say you have a date. In fact, go do that today. Yeah. Go on the dating app. Okay. Go plan a date. Yes. And then on this date, Yeah. Go on the dating app. Okay. Go plan a date. Yes.

And then on this date, after that date, think about what you want with this guy. Then write that list. Then write that list. Yeah. Good advice.

That sounds like a good idea. Yeah. I like that. Ninja it is, girl. Ninja. And then the text you would send him after the date,

which is, I want to hang out with you. Let's plan something. If you want to. But only if you want to. I think she's going to want to see it too. I lived in Denmark for a year. There's some hotties. Oh, you've been all over the place. That's awesome.

So instead of texting someone right now, get on the dating apps. And go for it. Just get on all of them. Just go am. Go. You know,

you got a shirt window. Life is short. Just live. Live, girl. And your goal is fun. Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun. And you're really cute. Don't forget

how beautiful you are. Thank you so much. If you plan a date, not with your boy, and he happens to reach out and he asks what you're doing, feel free to let him know that you have a date planned. I have a date. Yes.

And even if he doesn't reach out. That's all you say. That's the only information you provide is that you have a date. Does he follow you on Instagram? I have a date. Yeah, he does. No, that's, you can't. Date time.

No, no, don't advertise the date. Okay, cool. Don't out yourself. All right, fine. Or just get ready. Just get ready. I'm getting ready for a date. Okay, cool. Don't out yourself. All right, fine. Only if he asks. Or just get ready. Just get ready. I'm getting ready for a date.

On a story. I'm getting ready for it. No, that's too much. Okay, fine. Clearly, I'm single, so don't take my advice. Well, I just don't want him to think that you're doing it to get his attention. That's true. Yeah.

You don't do that every night. When it's like, oh, hey, what's up? Oh, I'm getting ready for a date. It's like, what? Yeah. Oh, I guess I don't exist anymore. Yeah. Like that's completely different.

Yeah. You're right. What if he doesn't reach out though? Then she has a date. Right. So she shouldn't say it ever. Trust me. If she'll get an opportunity to let him know that she either had a date or that she's getting ready for a date,

what have you been up to? Oh, that's some nice dates. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. Yeah. Is your,

uh, is your Bumble as fire as mine? I'm assuming it's a dating app. Okay. Keep us posted. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll keep you posted. We're invested. Yes. All right. Well, let us know. Yeah. Let us know how the dating apps. I am invested. Yes. All right. Well, let us know. Yeah. Let us know how the day after go.

And then when you do talk to them, let us know what you decided and then what happened. Yes. Okay. Awesome. Thank you so, so much. Take care. Bye. All right.

All right. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Honestly, I see a little bit of me back in six years, six, seven years ago. I definitely went to England and followed or I met this guy in Saint-Tropez with my sister we I just took my sister

with me I wanted to have a hot girl summer and so that's what happened and then I met this guy and I like literally made this story up in my head and I would honestly fly to England like maybe before the season started so like three times a month and just be like I'm here for business that's wild Cheryl I know I know right I also love flying and I wanted to see if I could travel by myself which I can people and then he visited me once and he didn't know what I did and then he got really weird I was like, get out of my house. And yeah, that was it. You learn. But like it quickly flipped. So he went from

like not being, you know, engaged as much to once he found out what I did for a living. He didn't like you dancing? No, he liked it. He liked it too much. He liked the attention of it. Yes. Yeah, power can change. Yeah, I don't like that. I think I like that he didn't know me at all. Yeah. Oh, I see. Yeah, power can change. Yeah, I don't like that.

I think I like that he didn't know me at all. Yeah. Cheryl, what a delight. This has been so much fun. Thanks for having me. Can you please let my audience know about your podcast where they can follow you,

all the things you're doing. Just promote the fuck of yourself. Well, you already heard about body language, but podcasts is every Tuesdays with iHeart.art anywhere you listen to podcasts Burke in the Game

don't you forget and we talk about all this stuff all my insecurities we have guests that try and like get me to learn something new and most of the time they do Nick will be on so there you go and then Dancing with the Stars maybe we don't know and if I do do it it'll be my 26th

season oh my goodness I am 98 years old Then Dancing with the Stars, maybe. We don't know. And if I do do it, it'll be my 26th season. Oh, my goodness. I am 98 years old. Are they still going to be filming at the same place? I don't know. I don't know if I'm doing it. But yes, I would assume so. And then, yeah, at Cheryl Burke on all my social platforms,

except for TikTok, which I'm a huge fan of, finally, at Cheryl Burke Official. All right. Well, be sure to check out her podcast, follow her, all that fun stuff. And if she makes an appearance on Dancing with the Stars, be sure to check that out.

Thank you for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at castme.com. Cast with a K. We'll be back next week. Becca Moore is back to break down The Bachelorette. Oh, and next week, Ellie Zeiler again is with us for Going Deeper,

her fascinating life, more texting office hours. Until then, have a great week.