The Viall Files - E463 Ask Nick - He’s Dating Our Co-Worker Behind My Back

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

We are back with another episode of Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re here again to bring on our callers to answer their questions and give them advice as they navigate the crazy world of relationships. Our first caller is dealing with a workplace romance that goes sour when she discovers that she was the other woman the entire time. Having to deal with both the man she’s been seeing and his girlfriend both at her office, she wants to know how to “win” this breakup and move on with her life. Our next caller is stuck in a sticky situation where after feeling like the guy she’s seeing is a player, she starts seeing his younger brother. Now that he is aware, and things are awkward, she wonders how to best communicate to repair the situation the most she can. Our last caller wonders if it’s worth attempting to shoot her shot. She gets advice on the best ways to ask this guy to hangout and to judge if he is actually interested in something more.  “They’re building trust to lie to you later.” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Firstleaf: Sign up today and you’ll get your first 6 bottles for $39.95 plus free shipping. Go to http://www.TryFirstleaf.com/VIALL. Chime: Get started with Chime today. Applying for a free account takes less than 2 minutes. Get started at http://www.Chime.com/viall. ZocDoc: Go to http://www.Zocdoc.com/VIALL and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files ask nick edition i'm nick ali and amanda do that. It's so jarring when you look at the wrong one. It's not the wrong one. He's always looked at the wrong one. I know, but it's just... Even when I do the opposite. God.

You're consistent in your incorrectness. I feel like it's my dyslexia. Okay. You don't think so? Maybe it's just made up. As someone with a whole host of learning disabilities, I am a huge fan of bringing them into the chat, but I don't know that they're super relevant in this case.

This is like an opposite, but even if I go Amanda, Ally, I just... Maybe it's like a spatial reasoning thing. What if to this day he still doesn't really know who's who? What if every time he sends a text, he's just hoping for the best? That's not the case. Only in this moment when I say Ally and Amanda, Amanda's right hoping for the best. That's not the case. Only in this moment when I say Allie and Amanda. Amanda's right in front of me. And then you are to my right.

But you go first. Woohoo. So it's a beautiful arrangement. We have something important to talk about. We do? It's Allie. I feel like it's an intervention. No, All have something important to talk about. We do? It's Allie. I feel like it's an intervention. No, Allie has something to talk about.

Allie takes the lead. You have an update. Yeah. Do we call him Promising New Man? I think he was Promising Young Man. Was it Promising Old Man? No. Man on Earth.

We don't want to give it away. Man on earth to maintain anonymity. What did you say? I said promising young man who doesn't keep his promises. I like that. Let's run with that. So as we've discussed before, he was potentially going to come out here. That was like three weeks in the making, right?

You had went out there. The next step. I asked you next steps a couple weeks ago. You're like, he's coming out. I was out there middle of July. He had time off in the making, right? You had went out there, the next step. I asked you next steps a couple weeks ago. You're like, he's coming out. Because I was out there middle of July. He had time off in the middle of August. He had other people to see out here, so I knew it wouldn't just be me, but it was going to be kind of our next time to see each other.

As we mentioned, we had my birthday party this past weekend. He was going to be a part of that. And communication just like super i mean communication's been bad the last few weeks but your expectation of this weekend was for us of him having friends like you guys were this was going to be another opportunity to like grow the relationship right and when you'd visited him you'd stayed with him the whole time like it had been a lot of like playing house in the best way and like experiencing one another because like I feel like in long distance all you can do is like play house when you have the opportunity so it's

like you spend a lot more time together than you would with like other dating situations yeah and so you figured it would be like a split of like yeah he is going to see his sister at some point but like I am also a big component of this trip I would have hoped so at least that's where my mentality would have been. It sounds like as this weekend approached, you started feeling less confident and more confused about his expectations of this weekend. Confused was a word that I was using at least once a day

to describe not only him but us. And I think a lot of that had to do with communication. And occasionally he would really be there for me and be normal. But then the rest of the time, it kind of felt like it dropped completely off and I was hesitant to say anything about it because I didn't want to spook him and I didn't want to lose him um so I kind of just went with it and then it reached a point where there had been no communication about the trip there had been no letting me know any of his plans until beyond the last minute and you checked in a few times oh i asked

him three times she checked in yeah she's an organized lady she's making our itinerary but it wasn't like it's three weeks in advance you know what i mean like i was like trying to be like like reasonable things like do you want me to pick you up from the airport? Do you know how coveted that is in Los Angeles? Are you staying here tomorrow? Yes, exactly. Literally. Crazy logistical things. Super over the top.

Who's to know? And he was very, we'll see. Yeah, it was so late that he finally let me know that I was already asleep. So I really didn't hear it until the morning in which he arrived. And that did not sit well with me. And so I told him that, I just told him how it made me feel. I told him that I would have had that expectation for anyone coming into town that was potentially staying with me.

And we got on the phone later that day and he apologized for that. He was very sweet about that. And then I was just basically like, is now a good time to check in with you because I don't want to make you come here if I'm not a priority. Awesome.

Great. Yeah. And he said? And he just said the distance was like really really hard and i was just i was calm cool and collected the entire phone conversation i was like silently crying but did not let that didn't let it affect my voice and i was like well that's great and i was like if distance is always going to be a thing for you uh there's no need to continue this it's just going to suck even more to end it later i was like i hope you find someone where you are to do all

these in-person things with wish you nothing but the best like I think I really took him by surprise because I was just I feel like you I feel like your inner like your mom's corporate like energy came surging to the front and you're like okay all he really said is that the distance was hard yeah I mean he he was being he was like I hope you know like You're amazing. All the typical stuff. But I was just calm, cool, and collected through and through, which I think took him a bit by surprise. But I was like, he's not going to let me see. He's not going to.

What are you going to do if you hear from him? I won't. I don't think I will. Why do you say that? I think he knows. It's done. I feel like you say that to manage your expectations because that's what I would do,

where I would just be like, I need to cut this off fully as an option because in my brain- There's no reason for either of us to reach out. I mean, I hear you, but with that logic, there was no reason for you guys to play house based off of his line of thinking.

I know, which is why I was so confused why he asked me out to begin with. That's what I'm saying. So you're, logically, yes, but illogically, as we often are in relationships, what do you do if he reaches out? I don't, I guess it would depend on why he's reaching out. I don't see him reaching out. Why? Well, boredom.

Or like missing someone. Do you think those are, do you like think those two are like, go like fingers crossed, hand in hand, like boredom and uh or like missing someone do you think those are do you like think those two are like go like fingers crossed hand in hand like boredom and missing someone or do you think there's like distinct i don't know all the details of this relationship you guys have been hanging out for a while still relatively new that he's got his life in colorado and you have yours here distance is a thing but he didn't want to make your priority. You called him on the priority aspect. He gave you distance. Like, okay, fine.

I told him, I said, I can only build 50% of my bridge. Yeah, I love it. I literally- But like eventually, well, I'm sure he probably there was moments this weekend he wanted to hang out with you. Obviously you were there for him at times. So those moments will pop up. At some point, he might be bored and lonely enough. The right thing for him to do in that moment would be, well, I am bored and I am lonely. And maybe I do miss Allie, but I'm going to respect her boundaries that she set. And I'm not willing to do any more than I was before. I just kind of miss her in this moment.

Often people don't have that sense of maturity or respect for the person. They will like, well, I just wanted to reach out and see how you're doing. You know, they'll start fishing. They cast a line and see if that other person is also bored enough or missing them so that they kind of go back to what it was before when there weren't expectations or they weren't boundaries. I feel like one of the smarter things you've ever said on TikTok, like one of the TikToks you made was like, no, I thought this was like really, like very concise and insightful was like, your ex is only reaching out to see if they still have power over you

and not necessarily in some like Machiavellian, like malicious way. But like I did that. I realized I was doing that with my ex where like when I was checking in it was like yeah it was like i genuinely care about this person we have so many memories we spent a bunch of time together i feel fully platonically about him but i'm also wondering like are you still a person who's like in my camp and who i could call who like who still cares for me in that way and like what i was gonna ask is like if it were me i would a hundred percent even though i knew it was like unrealistic and i would try not to get my hopes up in any way for this, I would 100% be holding out a little bit of hope that he would see, he would miss me.

There's a chance he could slash will. I don't think he would channel that into a text whatsoever. I don't think he would reach out. I hope he doesn't. Anyways, I'm sorry that happened. I'm glad that you handled it the way you did. I wish him nothing but the best. I hope he finds someone in person because he was great.

He was good. Okay. But even you said that everyone told you how perfect he was. I said how perfect he was even at the beginning. I mean, when I first met him. I'm sure he's fine. But you peel back the layers and you saw just a fucking guy.

Well, it just speaks to the thing. There's a specific skill set within relationship that relationships elicit within you. It's the communication in this specific setting where he was inconsistent, whereas in other areas, I'm sure he was a really consistent friend and a really like, you know, I'm sure there were all these other ways that he was continuously showing up for people. But like that's the issue is like I think you can get this sense of like, oh, they've been vetted. Like my my the people who I love and who I really trust, like think this person is amazing when it's so easy to forget that like they can't fully vet someone because they haven't seen the side of them that emerges during a relationship. Yeah. I mean,

through my own experiences, if I'm introduced to someone or I meet someone and then I, and then I meet their immediate family and friends, if their immediate and family and friends talk about how perfect they are to a level of like they actually believe it, red flag. Totally. I mean, let's be honest. We don't know if I'm not like I'm paraphrasing more than I'm taking like a direct quote. I don't think they're walking around saying. We don't need to defend him right now.

But I also, I don't, and I don't know that it was like a situation where everyone was like worshiping. I wanted to have his babies. I'm just talking about in general. And you can make your kids listen to this and be like, this is mommy and daddy's rock bottom. bottom i don't mean i don't mean like uh i don't mean like everyone loves their son and has nice things to say but like there's i've been around people in their community where they they revere these people and i'm just like all right like it's fucking weird and i don't know if that's what was going on with him, but, like, if he was truly this golden boy

amongst his surroundings, red flag. Well, I also think if you have your... Because he probably believes that. If your own self-image is such of, like, if everybody's telling you that you're wonderful, then I think it means there's even more shame in moments where you, or, like, for me at least, like, there's moments of shame when you fall short,

and then for me, shame creates avoidance. And then you become even, like, more inconsistent in communication and stuff. And I feel like like i've just experienced those people don't handle disappointment good yeah totally and i think you can say part of it is like maybe uh like oh you're a bit softer in this way because you haven't experienced it and i think also part of it is maybe that it feels like a further fall for you because everybody has been like holding you up so high is this like amazing person you totally could have let this go on for months. This is a case study in the vile files.

You could have hung out with him on your birthday and then spend your whole birthday weekend thinking about how he's doing and how he's feeling. And even when you're next to him, you would still have been confused. It would have cannibalized your whole weekend. And then you could have left frustrated this weekend and you could have had some time apart. And then like you could have not said all the things that you said,

you would have fallen into whatever pattern was convenient for him. And you would have continued to be confused and frustrated. But then he would give you just enough validation and brief moments to keep this going for months. And you didn't. So good for you. Thanks. We salute you. Salute. I think we should salute Allie. All the Vile Files listeners, please salute her. She deserves a salute.

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order it now. It would really mean a lot. And it's really, the ethnic people, however well this book does or doesn't do. We will blame you either way. Well, no,

you'll get all the credit. I'll blame me if it sucks. But if, if it does well, it will be because of you. So, do me a favor. We'll put the link in the bio.

And we'll put a link for, like, there's a link for a store where you can buy it online, receive it just like you would if you bought it from Amazon. It will be procured by a local indie bookstore, so you can also support a bookstore as well. That's something that you guys are interested in doing. So again, you'll still get it in the mail. Same price. You're just supporting a local bookstore so if you guys could do that it would mean a lot i'm gonna ask you all the time also you guys have

been asking for uh an update episode we're gonna be doing an update episode on september 8th it's a thursday so we're not gonna take anything away from the ass nick depending on how this episode goes we'll see how you guys respond receive it it. We're going to start doing it every month. And if it does well, if you guys really like it, maybe it will become a regular part of the show. If you like it, we'll do it. So that's September 8th.

Mark your calendars. And thank you for the suggestions. And thank you for the suggestions. I feel like it's very cool to have the input and just doing the Instagram comments, whatever else. It's so much more impactful being in a room

knowing that there's people who are engaged and want to make the show better. I think you're really going to like this update episode. It's going to be fun. Interactive. Juicy.

Juicy tea. Juicy tea. Big week lined up. Becca Moore returns to recap the episode of The Bachelorette tonight who I think one of the things

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a hot and spicy now if you listen only if it's authentic it was authentic then it wasn't and it wasn't contentious it was just like it's a meeting of the minds

we allow that on the show but you just have to come It was authentic then. And it wasn't contentious. It was just like a meeting of the minds. We allow that on the show, but you just have to come. Guns a-blazing. You have to back it up. And going deeper, the one and the only Ellie Zeiler joins us. You won't want to miss that fashion icon. We will also talk about all things pop culture, office hours, all that fun stuff. Get to our callers. Question time with Nick.

Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Hi, how's it going? I'm Kim. I'm 27 years old. How can we help, Kim? Okay, so starting about a year ago, um, I, uh, a new guy started at work, um, and he was really cute and, uh, you know, he caught my eye and then

like a few months in, he asked me like to drinks one night. So I was like, sure. So we went out to drinks and, um, sorry, like I'm still kind of emotional about all of this um and so yeah we like started to get to know each other but like we never hooked up or anything like on that first date he kind of was like you know I'm seeing I'm sleeping with a woman um so at that point I was on your first date he's like I'm he told you he was sleeping with another woman yes yes so I yeah I kind of at this point was like okay maybe he just sees me as friends like no big deal like i was dating other people you know i was sleeping with other people like whatever you know what did you think about that when he said that did you like did you think

he was like just trying to be weird i thought it was weird as fuck no i was like who the fuck talks like that i'm sleeping with another woman it's like okay did you ask yeah um no and i it's kind of like yeah like yeah i'm dating just say you're dating just say you're dating yeah right exactly if you ask like be honest but i'm currently sleeping with another woman i have sex i fuck i fuck just you know like yeah no he said okay so it gets weirder this he says weirder stuff so um like i like kind of after that like though after the first it was kind of like all right whatever like kind of screw this guy like that's that was a weird thing to say so but i work with him every day so like i obviously got to know him over the next few months like he would come and sit on my desk for hours a day like i would eventually started to go sit on his desk for hours a day like i started to have feelings for him

um we eventually like started hanging out like one-on-one like after work um and he would still bring up the woman he was sleeping with um but it was definitely like flirty it was um yeah so i when you say you started to have feelings for him, like, what do you mean? Like what? Like I wanted to fuck him. Okay. You became more drawn to him. You were attracted to him. Yes. Yeah, exactly. All right. So I like listening to podcasts have come February. I like, I told him I was feeling this way. Like, you know, I was like, look, I'm into you. Yeah. I was like, look, I'm into you. Like, you know i was like look i'm into you great yeah i was like look i'm into you like um i you know whatever um and he at that point was like yeah i've always wanted to fuck you um jesus and

um yeah i should have like stopped this is that he said that at work did he where did you say what did this conversation this is at a bar no this is at a bar after work like we would go to bars afterwards were you drunk at least um i was relatively sober like you guys making out when he said that no no because like in the heat of the moment where you guys like fine i could picture that maybe being like a hot line like and like them but like having drinks at a bar you shoot your shot and his response is like yeah i always wanted to fuck yes this guy no i know i know i know trust me like i know i guess yeah when you say like that i'm like okay yeah that is really funny um i don't know but at this point like he's still he told me he's like look like uh but i'm still like sleeping with this other woman um and like i'm out of respect for her

like i'm not gonna do that her like i'm not going to do that but like yes i am attracted to you like but he wasn't dating her he's just sleeping with her he was just quote sleeping with did you believe him and you believed him i believed him i believed him i believed him that like he like she was kind of you know you didn't think to ask more questions well i started to i eventually started to so then i started to be like has this woman met your family like does like would she care about me like would she care about this situation at that point when she started saying yes like it it you know it that's kind of when i started pushing back you know but at one point too like we were at a bar and like at a work so

it gets worse it gets even worse so we were at a work event like flirting with me doing our usual thing he's flirting with me he's up on me telling me oh he's gonna fuck me in this lifetime but we're still not hooking up it's super weird because he's still sleeping this other woman whatever flash forward a month later i find out it's the woman who sits next to him at work and she's like significantly older than us he's my age she's 10 years older um so when he sits next to i was like horrified like i was horrified i'm like i'm so sorry just like like so sad because like at this point like i knew i shouldn't have loved him but like i did like we had spent like so much time together like i thought he was my best friend like i told him everything about me and like to find out it was someone, there was just this massive secret at work.

Everyone knew. He had told people not to tell me. And so the day I found out, I pulled him in my car and was like, what the fuck? He was the actual fuck. What is this? And he was like, I love you, but you just need to be patient. I'm not happy in my relationship. Well, hold on. Where did we go to start saying we love each other when did that happen i guess

i guess like uh probably back in april so i told him i had feelings for him in february and then april like we were at all these work events like spending a lot of time together like i like spent the night at his house one night like have you guys hooked up no no you still have never hooked up with this guy still have never hooked up we've never hooked up no no you still have never hooked up with this guy still have never hooked up we've never hooked up to this day we have never hooked up isn't this so fucking weird like i like i mean i wanted to like i was fucking trying like i like was like hey like i like you know what i mean like i was basically not throwing myself at him but like yeah you know like we were at bars together and like we were like kissing on like he would kiss me on the cheek like outside like an uber and be

like no you gotta go home and i'm like okay like all right like i'll go home like you know i'm not gonna stand there it was just so fucking weird like and long story short so he i when i find out about this woman he's like i love you just be patient like don't you know like i'm not happy with her whatever so i stopped talking at this point like i this is when i cut off when was this when did this happen uh probably about a month ago i cut off communication i like moved my desk at work i blocked him on everything like i like great just don't want a part of it like but like i was at work the other day and like he's still trying to talk to me and like i snapped i fucking snapped on him and i was like you're a fucking

liar you're a fucking coward like is this at work like two yeah we're not in front of anyone are we worried about like where's hr uh you know hr my company's not really a thing i know that's super weird to say but it's just like a super like it's a small company we don't have it don't worry yeah yeah i'll say it's a male-dominated company so there's a lot of men at this company who behave like this okay and so i like i moved my desk whatever i'm like but then i like i was yelling at him like we were in our gym and like i was yelling at him and i was like you know what like and i thought she knew this whole time. Like I thought she knew. And so I realized in that moment, like she had no idea. And I was like, you know what? If you don't call her, like I'm fucking calling her. Like I work with this woman, like I'm going

to see her every fucking day. And she's giving me dirty looks in the bathroom now. Like she like fucking hated me. Cause I was, I would sit on her boyfriend's desk every day. Of course she fucking hated me. Like, so anyway, so I called her ass up and I was like look I just need to tell you like your boyfriend's been saying like all this shit to me and like I feel I felt awful like she had no fucking idea like she had no idea and like at this point like I've told him like leave me alone like please don't talk to me. Like, I don't want anything to do with the situation anymore. Like I told her, I felt like she deserved to know.

Is he, he's not your boss, right? No, no, no. We're on the same level. Well,

I mean, at what point does it become like, is he harassing you? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Cause now he's, he went around and told everyone that like,

I was crazy and that like, we were only ever just friends. And then like ever just friends and that I made this up. And it's like, which I think is gaslighting, right? Like convincing someone that something didn't happen. Well, he's more, I guess, gaslighting co-worker. I mean, he's just lying. He's lying. He's just lying.

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you can find a doctor that has available appointments, good reviews, and takes your insurance. Boom. And all you gotta do is use a free app. To use Common Sense, go to ZocDoc.com slash V-I-A-L-L and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash V-I-A-L-L. ZocDoc.com slash V-I-A-L-L. How do we work through this? Well, clearly you feel embarrassed, right? Yeah. That's probably the biggest feeling you're feeling right now. Totally understandable, justifiable.

I don't want your embarrassment that you feel to like overstate how you felt about him. Like, did you really love him? This guy dangled a carrot in front of you forever. And I am sure that was exciting and fun. And he said some like off-putting things, but flip it. And I'm sure at some level as off-putting as they were, he probably said it with confidence and charisma that almost weirdly fucked up, made you like find it attractive. And I'm sure it was all very exciting. And I'm sure you really enjoyed that chase. And I'm sure you spent some time together and I'm sure you really enjoyed that chase and I'm sure you spent some time together

and I'm sure you bonded, et cetera, et cetera. But love, I don't know. Like my guess is there was so much this relationship didn't have that you wanted. You know what I'm saying? So I think it would be good for you to go back and really reevaluate that relationship. What I want you to do is think to yourself, I mean, listen, I cared about him. I feel foolish and embarrassed, but I didn't love

this guy. Let's not give this situation or this guy too much credit. You know what I'm saying? I was excited. I definitely liked him. But this had a lot to do with me getting caught up in this situation, right? I don't know how much you watch The Bachelor. Caitlin, I don't know if you know her, but, like, we had this, like, right? So, like, for, like, a month, we had this, like, love affair. And, like, again, like, we were talking and I showed up. But, like, part of me getting over that when it ended was realizing, well, again, I had feelings for her, right? I certainly, like, it wasn't, like, fake. But I went back and thought, well, yeah, I mean, for her, right? I certainly, like, it wasn't, like, fake,

but I went back and thought, well, yeah, I mean, I was definitely caught up in this whole thing, you know? Like, you know, I knew she was going on the show in the back of my mind, and I got caught up in the story of it all. Like, we all do that sometimes, right? Sometimes we find ourselves in a situation, and it feels like almost like a rom-com, right? And so you got caught up in that, but does that mean love? I don't think so, right? I think it means more you got caught up in the story of it all. We've all done that, right?

But I think now that you're experiencing this, I think it would help you to just recognize that so that you aren't giving that relationship more credit. You're like, I wouldn't, from what I'm hearing from you, I wouldn't giving that relationship more credit you're like i don't i wouldn't from what i'm hearing from you i wouldn't call that love right and so i think that might make you feel a little bit better yeah i think that like my part of my problem is i'm i am very lonely like where i am like i am very lonely and he was like probably the closest connection i had so like the closest thing that like I felt to love you, you're super right. Like we didn't go on dates.

Like I don't know how he is when he's like super angry, you know? So you're right. I can't call it love, but I think, um, you enjoyed his companionship for sure. I get that.

And so that's good that you can name that, right? You can recognize it. It's not easy to say that you are lonely or you feel lonely. Right. But I think that's more honest and that will allow you to not give him too much credit because then you can say like, the truth is like, I am lonely and it's sad and I, and I enjoyed his time,

but it has a lot to do with how I feel about being lonely. So I, I, I'm going to be able to get over this as far as like being sad. Now, you're dealing with other aspects. Unfortunately, you're dealing with other aspects unfortunately you're dealing with this embarrassment you know obviously work he's spreading lies about you it's affecting other aspects of your life that's not fair he's not respecting the boundaries you're trying to set in terms of leaving him alone i honestly think you start documenting it i honestly think that like if it's if it's this to the point where he doesn't stop i think like on a word doc like literally email yourself.

Email, yeah. And then the timestamps will be there. Yes, there you go. And so came to my desk. I asked him. He didn't. Blah, blah, blah. Because if it gets to the point where you have to, well, you don't have an HR.

But at some point, say you're harassing me. I've asked you to stop, but document it. It's this crazy thing. Because I've started to feel like he's harassing me yeah i've asked you to stop like document it it's like this crazy thing because like i've started to feel like he's harassing me like when i blocked him i noticed there was this account that started following my instagram that like had not following but will watch my stories and it had zero followers like and i just he started showing up at places at work that like he knew i would be and like in my head though like i'm like am i the crazy one because he's going around saying i'm the one obsessed with him but i feel like he's showing up in all these places that i am like do you have

people at work yeah no i get it yeah uh do you have any like close friends or allies at work oh yeah yeah a ton a ton i have way more people like on my side than his at this point people found out you know like like people did so i think just document it right try to remove yourself from the drama it sounds like you're doing all the right things you're blocking them i think the thing that like sucks that i'm like really really worried about is like it sucks like i'm gonna have to see her and him like a lot like and like i'm i'm more so concerned like how do you get over someone when you have to see them like every day to be honest that's my least concern for you if that's your biggest concern i feel better about your situation truly because like honestly like the work aspect i'm a little worried about that i don't like that

he's not respecting your boundaries and still harassing you and like that's that's a tougher situation but you seeing them that's that's your ego and that's you feel like that you can control you felt embarrassed right this they just put it out there and you had every right to feel embarrassed this guy like totally fucked you over it's like when you get cheated on you essentially got cheated yeah you feel embarrassed but you have to really remind yourself that these were his choices you have nothing to feel embarrassed about he He should feel embarrassed. She shouldn't even feel embarrassed. She might feel embarrassed, but like of the three of you, you're the most fine. You're not, it's not your relationship. You don't have to like go maybe do couples counseling, et cetera, et cetera. You have

now the clarity that you like unfortunately wasted some time. You can grieve the sadness of the companionship that you lost because you know,. You can grieve the sadness of the companionship that you lost because you liked having this companionship so that you can grieve and get over. But seeing them like, trust me, people are embarrassed for them, not you. I promise you. It's just like, it's that same classic case.

You get cheated on and the person who's being cheated on like gets asked, well, what happened in the relationship? And you fear fear you don't want to tell people you're just like oh it just ended you know relationships don't work out and because you don't want to be like yeah they fucked someone else you know because we're always afraid to be like oh they fucked someone else like what's wrong with you they had to fuck someone else and like that no one thinks that we think that our egos are telling your ego right now is being like, you're a loser. How could you not know this? Oh, my God. My ego right now, too.

I never want to put down the way anyone looks, but this woman is very different than the way I look. Sure. Completely opposite. And I compare myself to her now. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, but your ego is in fucking overdrive right now. So I think you have to really recognize that. And these thoughts of that, you have to self- that and these thoughts of that you have to self

please you have to be like i have nothing to be embarrassed about you really don't i don't know if he recognizes it bugs you that he doesn't get that he should feel embarrassed and that bugs you i think it bugged me too that he like got to at first got to walk off like scott free with all this like that that was probably you gotta believe in karma you know what i'm saying you gotta believe that like living well is the best for that and just like you you can't let yourself don't become emotionally invested in making sure he pays for what he did you're so right that will only like keep you in this very toxic atmosphere you really have to be grateful that you found out, not embarrassed. It's natural to feel embarrassed, but you really have to tell yourself, thank God I

found out. Because it could have been worse. You could have hooked up with him. He could have, who knows what this guy is capable of. And the only people who should feel like, trust me, I guarantee other people are going to look at them and feel embarrassed for the couple. Just rest assured, someday, years from now, it'll catch up with them. You have the opportunity to do the right thing and take care of yourself and control your ego,

and you will recover from this, and you will heal. He is not going to, right? He is going to be defensive. He's not going to be honest with himself or take responsibility for how he's affecting other people's lives. And I assure you, that will catch up to him. It always catches up to them. You know? Yeah.

Yeah, you're so right. Wow, I'm surprised that, like, I don't know. I thought you were going to be so mad at me that I kept it going from the beginning. Like, I know it's just notes. We've all done it you know like the shit we talk about on this show i mean they're easy concepts i know i sometimes get accused of being condescending it's because with the things i'm talking about like we we all know

they're simple but in practice they're impossible to implement in the heat of the moment it gets really hard to like have feelings and emotions and be like, yeah, I can talk through it because I don't like, you know, it's not my life. It's not, I'm not experiencing what you're experiencing. But like, they're real simple concepts. They're just so hard to implement. So like when I'm saying it, you're like, yeah, no, other people who are also not affected by this might hear me say this and be like, well why are you saying something you know but like in your position like you know like you

know we don't judge the people because like yeah it's tough it's tough to like sit there and get excited about someone especially if you're dealing with feelings like loneliness and having a hard time making friends and you finally meet someone who's like fun and exciting and and sometimes unfortunately the fun and exciting people are just like major fuck boys who are willing to say crazy shit. They go, well, that was fun. I don't know. He wants to fuck me.

I don't know. It was weird, but like exciting. I don't know. Is he going to choke me? Wow. You know, and so you just have to deal with all that. But it's good that you can name the embarrassment. But now you have to, I think, let go of it and remind yourself that you really have nothing to be embarrassed about you didn't

know you have nothing to be embarrassed about you know it's it's it's embarrassing when people know and don't address it it's embarrassing when you know that deep down my partner's fucking with me but uh fucking me someone else but i don't have the courage to bring it up because i'm too afraid to like be alone that's embarrassing right right you didn't know what could you have done differently how can you be embarrassed about something that you had no control over yeah i think i think the only thing like i like when he said the woman i'm sleeping with like when he kept saying it like i should have i guess i know you should know yeah no yes you can take responsibility that's the one thing you know is that like you you probably could have asked more questions at what the at the point in which you found out

that this other woman whoever she was before you knew who she was would would not like your existence and you kept hanging out with them, that you should take responsibility for. That you can control. You can control that next time I date someone and I start having feelings for them and they tell me they're sleeping with someone else, I should maybe not pursue that. I should set a boundary and say, thanks for letting me know, but this is evolving to a point where I'm starting to build feelings and this is going to get messy. So like, let me know if you want to cut that off, you know, also be aware that like when people like share really bizarre information too soon, that is a red flag of maybe them like oversharing and trying to build some trust because at the end

of the day, what they plan on doing is not telling you the full truth. So they hit you with a lot of like a surprising truth that, Hey, I'm so honest that I can tell you I'm sleeping with another woman. And you're like, I didn't fucking ask. That's a red flag. Like why would someone share, why would someone overshare something they didn't need to share? I didn't even ask. And then sometimes people do that because they want to build trust with you because they plan on lying to you about other things this has been like honestly like it really took off in february so it's been like five months of this and i just feel like i mean like like literally the past week like i've been on my bed just like crying yeah just crying like i guess i do i am a little embarrassed too about like the last message i sent to him was like really mean it was like leave me the fuck alone you psycho motherfucker like leave me i think uh i think it's okay okay i mean maybe

don't do it in the future but i don't think you need to beat yourself up he kind of deserved it yeah it's okay that you felt embarrassed yeah but i think we need to yeah i guess the last message i said too i was just like i've never told another friend I'm going to fuck them in this lifetime. How could you go around saying that you only ever saw me as a friend? Yeah. So like things like, how could you say this? Or how could he say that? Those thoughts, you have to try to let go of those.

He clearly was capable of saying it. You know? So like, he's not you. When people say things like, well, how could you say this? You wouldn't do that. Right? So that's a recognition that like, that's not, that's another, that's another Matt. Yeah. That's another reminder that your character and his character are completely different. So when you tell yourself, I can't believe they said

or did this to me, I would never do that. That you should, that's a reminder to you that we aren't compatible, that that's not the person I want that. Thank you that I am no longer invested in this person. Don't allow yourself to be confused like they're not who you are. People don't have the same character as you. They're not going to make the same choices. But it is a reminder to you that that person isn't aligned with how you operate and your expectations of people. It's good that you name the embarrassment, but you need to stop telling yourself you're embarrassed. Now you got to stop telling yourself you're grateful to be out of this. You're sad, you're lonely, that's fine, but you are grateful to be out of this situation. And I have nothing to be embarrassed about,

you know, truly. You just got to keep saying that and eventually over time you will believe it. And, you know, do the little things like try to avoid looking at them, but if you do see them together, feel pity for them. Be like, you know what? That's not going to end well for either of them. But I'm out of it. So thank God for that. If you want to help control your ego, just remind yourself that truthfully, other people

are laughing at them, not you. A year from now, you'll look back and think about all the exciting things you did. Maybe you traveled a little bit. Maybe you took some other classes. You're going to meet new friends, et cetera, et cetera. You'll have a different perspective of how you handle disappointment, all of which will be a result of going through this tragedy. I really think if you approach it that way and use it as a catalyst, as something to motivate you, you'll be grateful that this happened. Yeah, I think you're so right. I think, yeah, I should look at this more as like,

yeah, a catalyst. And I could still turn this year around and make this the best year ever. My year doesn't have to be defined by everything that happened. Also, it's just a year. It doesn't have to be your best year ever. Life's a journey. More realistically, it's five years from now.

Don't go to December 31st and be like, did I have an amazing year, the best year ever or not? And if I didn't, I'm like, oh, fuck myself. You look back at your past five years and go, man, I had some ups, I had some downs, I had this. But wow, some of my downs gave me some of my ups, because if I'm being honest with myself, I had to experience a down for me to make X, Y, and decision that brought this into my life. And wow, that made me really grateful experience the down for me to make X, Y, and decision that brought this into my life. And wow, that made me really grateful for the down. Let time pass before you start evaluating things.

Life is truly a journey. And it is full of highs and lows. And the best part about getting older. I definitely struggle with being in the now. That's for sure a struggle of mine. You're going to laugh at this someday i promise yeah you're so right this isn't the end of the world i know it feels like it i know you feel embarrassed but i promise you it's really not and it can be a catalyst for you yeah you're so right thank you so much well keep us

updated um we're all invested i will i'll keep you updated thank you so much. Well, keep us updated. We're all invested. I will. I'll keep you updated. Thank you so much. Let us know how you're doing. I really love talking to you. Oh, well, we appreciate the call. I'm glad. All right. Well, take care.

Treat yourself today. Yeah. Go do something. Seriously. Thank you. Use this as an excuse to really spoil yourself for the next month or so. You're so right. Yeah.

I should treat myself. I should go buy myself something cute. All right. All right. Bye. All right. Take care. Bye-bye.

How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Olivia and I'm 24. Hi, Olivia. How can I help?

So I don't know if you were able to read my very long spiel, but basically I've been friends with this guy for about like five years, but only got close with him since last February. And because of that, I got close with him due to me wanting to pursue the same career that he's in. So I reached out and asked if I could do some shadow work. He said, yeah. So went and hung out and did shadow work with him over a few weeks. I kind of wasn't really taking no for an answer because I was very ambitious and wanting to confirm that this is what I wanted. And over that time, we got pretty close and we're chit-chatting and talking and actually got to hear more of our life stories with each other and talked all the time, even outside of work. He was kind of in a situationship with another girl that I know mutually.

So out of respect to that, I never really showed the actual interest I had in him. Okay. Because I wanted to be respectful of that situation and whatnot. But he would always kind of say little comments about him not seeing it going anywhere and whatnot. And obviously I took that with a grain of salt he told you that he didn't see the situation ship that he was in that it was going anywhere yes and yet he's still in it exactly yeah but to which like maybe a couple weeks later

it ended up ending and then he told me about it and said, well, now we can hang out more outside of work. And with that, I wasn't really impressed because it's, I didn't know how to take that. So take him ending and then saying, well, we can hang out outside of work now without him getting in like in trouble quote-unquote um because over the years of me knowing him as like throughout the city

um he's kind of been known as a serial dater hookup person with lots of the girls so I always just kind of kept an arm's length with that. But just given everything and all the interests we had, I obviously started to get feelings with him. Then after that situationship ending, we would still talk and everything. And I ended up getting offered this summer position at his work, which I took because obviously I wanted that hands-on experience. So I took it for the summer and over that summer got even closer and we're always talking, always working together like side by side. I was learning under him. But however, like throughout he would go on these dates because now he's single and all this stuff. It would always tell me about the dates and everything and how attractive the person was or how well the date went or what was wrong with him.

And I started to feel kind of a therapist. So I started to just withdraw because I didn't want to be like sit around as I have interest, but be that person's therapist out of their comfortability. So I withdrew and I kind of got frustrated with the whole situation because I thought we had a really good connection, but he clearly wasn't seeing it. So after he ended the situationship, he didn't, you didn't feel like he was pursuing you romantically. Like, yes, but no. like he was pursuing you romantically like yes but no i think it's also just because i had already the perception of him being a player kind of as people in my area know him as so i kind of again

took it with a grain of salt so i left it and i didn't pursue pursue i don't know how to say that but i didn't fully pursue that because I didn't believe him. You were just going to wait to see if he pursued you. Yeah. Because at that point I didn't want to try and then be like, Oh no, we're just friends. I didn't want to take that rejection.

That makes sense. So out of my frustration of always hearing about all these dates and everything, and I'm just kind of sitting there waiting, I ended up actually reaching out to his younger brother. Okay. And, um,

me and the younger brother over that last summer ended up hanging out and we ended up seeing each other for a few weeks, which the one like my friend knew about but I never gave really any details he knew that you were hanging out with his younger brother yeah romantically yeah did you hook up yeah um and over the summer so I kept it really like quiet I didn't want really anyone knowing especially him but that even from the first week of being with the brother I was regretting it but because of already what has happened I couldn't take it back what made you reach out to the brother just so I I've known that brother

as well me and that brother a year prior we're supposed to go out and then I ended up canceling and all this stuff so then I tried to reconnect the following summer were you hoping it would make the other guy jealous yeah but yes and also at the same time just given a lot of the traits that the older brother my friend kind of has I know he wouldn't be something that could have been long term at that point while the younger brother is so yeah okay so where are we now so where we're at now is that clearly like within the three weeks I was seeing the younger brother it ended as it should have um it ended and I was actually done my summer position at that point and I didn't talk with the older brother or my friend since like that fall term of school just due to like a few

things that happened at the end of me ending it with the younger brother and being done the summer position that I heard through old colleagues at the office the older brother got a puppy and he got a puppy and I thought it was pretty hilarious because I always was telling him for years of me knowing him get a puppy get a puppy get a puppy because I find that he is so emotionally reserved and can't seem to open up to anything that he should have had an animal being a little therapist that I was for him um so he got the puppy a dog will soften you that's for sure it will yeah because love, that's what he was in need of. And he ended up reaching out to me actually this February of this year and was seeing if maybe I could go and work for him

like at his home with the puppy during the weekdays while he's at the office. And I agreed because I didn't talk to him for months so I thought maybe my little crush with him kind of was like done because I had that no contact for months on end so I took it because needed the money to as a student my question is is that I mean I know I kind of ruined the whole dynamic this could have like resulted in or like eventually with the brother. But I didn't know because I have a brother. I don't have a sister.

So I can't relate to like the same sibling type of. I don't think it's ideal. No, but I don't know. Like, because I don't. Do you have brothers? I think you do. I have. Yeah, I have a know. Like, cause I don't, do you have brothers? I think you do. I have. Yeah. I have a few. I have many. So I just, so I just didn't, my question is kind of like,

can a sibling or like someone get over this? Because the whole thing is he kept saying near the end of me quitting, doing the puppy job, he was like, well, you got with my brother. I can't overlook that. Like brother i can't overlook that like i can't forget that but would say all these other contradictory things to being like i do like you but i can't here's what i think i think your dynamic with him is weird okay i'm not trying to make you feel judged but it's just yeah there's some like red flags all over the map i think you i get like you're trying to you're playing games maybe he's playing games and maybe that's all this is

and like yeah you don't want him to ghost a date but like you're what you really want is him to you know you're trying to push him away and see if he fights back and like you're you know i'm saying like i think you're you're playing games too clearly you've reached out to the guy's brother to make him jealous um so you're you're you're very guilty as well as as being passive aggressive with your intentions and hoping that he you know reacts a certain way and you don't want to tell him how to act as you know you know and he's doing all this shit and the whole movie like you have to tell him how to act as you know you know and he's doing all this shit and the whole movie like you gotta stop playing you get so you need to stop this

and i think yeah so i quit okay yeah so no so what happened eventually um about a couple months ago i ended up like finally just being like i can can't keep doing this. Okay. So I really like you like, yeah, I did. Because so where are we now? Now playing house? Yeah. So as it stands today, what's the situation and what's your question? I keep kind of, I'm not really responding to him. He keeps trying to reach out to, he says he misses me and all this stuff. But I said, I gave you the choice in this. I told you how I felt. You chose no. So now you need to respect me not being able to be around here. So right now I'm just kind of keeping my distance. And your question is, should you reconsider?

your question is should you reconsider no because i don't know if he is even willing to change his mind but the thing is though he just wants to keep me around out of the comfortability that i am to him i think things got a little messy you're both were playing games i don't know why he made the decisions he did you got in your head about him being like a fuck boy you know he has a brother it just kind of got messy i think you did the right thing by quitting i think you did the right thing by shooting your shot and just saying hey it is what it is i want to date you and now he's reaching out if you have another conversation about this and you you still want to maybe date him you say i get that i dated your brother and i get it's not ideal but you can get over it you can everyone did say that to him yeah okay if you don't i understand

it's weird i understand you might not want to get over it but you can and if you don't want to i i understand but i don't want to be your friend i don't want to be your friend. I don't want to be your associate. I do like you. I can't change the way I feel about you. I am sorry about the brother. He wasn't a good lay. I don't fucking know what you want to say. But it didn't feel right.

And I like you and I wish I could take it back, but I can't. What I don't want to do, if you can't get over it, we definitely shouldn't date. Yeah. What I don't want to do, like if you can't get over it, we definitely shouldn't date. Yeah. I just, I, that's why I'm just kind of giving him the distance because I had to talk to him after ending and over. So after quitting, I gave him like two, I gave the two weeks kind of for him to find someone else to puppy sit.

And over those two weeks, he kept trying to convince me to stay or would make passive aggressive comments being like you're gonna miss the dog the dog's gonna miss you I'm gonna miss you and all this stuff that I kept saying hey you made the choice in this but now I'm doing mine you say the dog will be fine and you missing me that's a you problem that you have fully control over that's exactly what I said and I would just say you and the dog will be fine the dog will find a stepmom because he would always jokingly call me mom and that's another thing of playing house yeah and i was like a little manipulative and listen it sounds like

you're doing all the right things i would just reiterate to challenge yourself to be especially with him very direct and not passive aggressive. To just say exactly how you feel. Do not try to be indirect. Do not try to say one thing in hopes that he gets the hint and et cetera, et cetera. With this particular person, it's the lack of communication, the passive aggressive behavior on both of your parts that's led to this kind of very complicated and messy thing so you need to remedy it by being incredibly direct with him in a very matter of fact and and keep enforcing these boundaries and don't give in and remind him listen if you want to like there's only one reason we should talk and that is to talk about potentially being in a relationship. And if you don't want to be in one because you can't get over it, I respect that.

But then there's no reason we should no longer talk. It's that simple. It's not complicated. It is what it is. Yeah. Do you think you could ever get over that with a brother kind of dynamic? It's not something I'd want to have to get over. But he knew you hooked up with his brother.

And he's still invested in you. And he says he likes you and he had you sleep over. So you know what I'm saying? If my brother hooked up with a girl, I would be like, oh, well, I'm just not going to date her. But if I, if I was liked her so much that I was like bummed, I, yeah, I'd get over it. I'm just not a big believer in like wasting my time. He's wasting his time with you by choosing to invest in you and have you over and enjoy your company. And it's just like like he's hurting himself.

Get over it or don't get over it. Do you decide? I don't know. But you don't need me as a friend. Yeah. I know. I said to him, I said, I have enough friends. I don't need you as a friend anymore.

So it sounds like you're doing everything you should do. You just have to keep enforcing it and then be like, the only reason we should talk is talking about dating and you getting over it. I think you've gotten to the point where if he keeps wanting to talk to you you no longer need to feel sorry for hooking up with his brother how many times he apologized i think now you're just more like you're just more like don't get over it don't get over it i did it you don't get to keep like throwing it in my face and not that he necessarily is throwing your face, but like it keeps coming up because this is that it seems like the one thing that's stopping you from guys pursuing something. Or maybe that's just an excuse. I don't know. But what is clear is that you no longer want this relationship with him. That's not confusing. It's very clear.

He just kept asking to like, why can't we still have a relationship? Why can we still have one? Because I don't want to be your friend. Well, yeah. And I had to humble him and just say, apparently, your ego needs me to say it again. I can't. No. I don't think you need to, like, point out his ego and things like that. I think you just.

Yeah. A little too honest. Say, well, you're also trying to hurt him a little bit, if I'm being honest. So don't try to hurt him. Just be honest about how you feel. You don't need to call him out or make him feel bad or just remind him that he has total control over the situation. You have control over your choices too. And you choose not to continue down this path that's going nowhere. I like you.

I want to invest in you. You don't want to do it. That's fine. I'm going to invest my time in a different relationship that can go somewhere because this isn't. True. Let's see what he says. Well, thank you.

All right. Well, good luck. Keep us posted when you decide. Thanks. I will. All right. All the best. You too. Bye-bye. How's posted when you decide. Thanks. I will. All right. All the best. You too. Bye-bye.

How's it going? Hi, I'm Maggie. I'm 23 years old. How can I help Maggie? So I have been single from, for about a year, year and a half now. And I moved to a new city pretty quick after that. And since being here, I've been dating on dating apps, meeting people, all that stuff. And so last summer around this time, I went on a date with a guy, we'll call him Matt. And he immediately I could just tell that there was like a spark, it was different than just normal dates, things like that, that we were getting along pretty well. So we kept seeing each other, kept going on dates. And it was pretty, pretty frequently seeing each other. So then within about a few weeks, probably more like a month, which was probably too fast for whatever, I told him that I had genuine feelings for him and that I was, I was not in any rush to

be in a relationship with him or anything like that, but I had like actual feelings for him. And it wasn't just like a casual thing for me so that I had known that. Why did you, why did you say that you had genuine feelings and then immediately tell him that you weren't in a rush? Was that because you weren't actually in a rush or you didn't want to scare him off? I actually wasn't in a rush. So I had just gotten out of a relationship like a few months before and I was very good with the pace that we were at and I told him that. But I just, I wanted him to know that I wasn't just like, I don't know, just in there for like talking to him for nothing. Like I was genuinely interested.

You're not like, I'm not a fuck boy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause I had told him that I was seeing other people and things like that. So I didn't want him to think that he was just like another person. So there had been like pretty open communication about that. I had known that he had just gotten out of a pretty toxic relationship a little bit before me. And so I wasn't too confident that he was like going to react well. And that's what happened. He basically thought that I was asking for a relationship, wanting to define things

and said that he wasn't looking for anything serious um he couldn't be like thinking like that and wasn't the best about it um so then even though you made it clear that you were you're just like hey i'm just telling you that i think this is going well i'm excited about you they're cool yes no pressure yes yeah and he panicked yes yeah he panicked for sure um and he wasn't like mean about it but he just definitely wasn't getting, I don't think he believed me kind of like, like he just didn't believe that I was really in no rush. So anyways, after that, we stopped going on dates, stopped seeing each other regularly, but we live in like a relatively small place. So I would see him out, things like that.

We would occasionally like stay the night together, things like that, but not like regularly. And then would occasionally hear from each other on social media, texting, things like that. But it wasn't like, wasn't anything consistent. And I was continuing to see other people doing that whole thing. Then we got to probably like into winter. I don't know. And it was sporadic like that. But every time I'd see him, I would be reminded of how much I actually did like him and was interested in him. And it would just be a one step forward, two steps back kind of thing, because obviously I wasn't getting what I wanted.

I still had those feelings for him. So then I went through a period where I was traveling a lot. I wasn't in town and we didn't talk or see each other for like three or four months. And that took us to last weekend. I saw him out for the first time, um, in a while. And he came over to me and we talked for like an hour, hour and a half. he like ended his time, like in the bar there, like talking to me. And it was just like, everything came back again. And, um, I just felt very clouded after, like I always do. And, um, because there is, I do read the genuine interest from him, but then of course it it never goes past that. And so I guess what I want your advice on is if I need to be very blunt to him and say, look, I think you're great. I'd like to see you more and like get that clear communication from him, even if that's like

rejection, which is kind of what I think would happen um or if I should just like cut ties right now without having that um I just I do compare like subconsciously the guys that I meet and talk to to him because I do like I do like a lot of things about him I do have genuine interest in him him in a way that's a little more rare than the people that I've been meeting. So I just don't know what to do. I'm not against putting myself out there just to be rejected, I guess, but so that I could move on in that case, or I'm not opposed to just doing it without that communication, but I just don't know if I will ever feel completely comfortable knowing that in my head, I didn't like try everything, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I feel like you have your answer. You're preparing yourself for the worst case, but like, you know, like I always say, rejection is clarity. You want clarity.

Yes. And the way you're describing it, you're describing it as clarity. You shot it before, you recognize you kind of panicked. You didn't like bag or, you know, you didn't even like really try to backtrack. You just like took it as a sign that maybe he wasn't ready. And so that drastically changed how much you guys hung out or didn't hang out. You ran into each other a few times at a small town. You hooked up. It was convenient. It was good, whatever. And now you had this nice but confusing conversation with a guy that you know sparked some you know feelings again yeah and i think you are well prepared and

realistic about the fact that probably nothing has really changed with him and so when you do this again you'll probably get the same result but you don't know for sure. And it has like, what, a year has gone by essentially? So who knows? I think it's okay to remind him once again, hey, I really enjoyed that conversation. I don't know where you're at in your life, but I'd love to see where this goes. And if not, that's okay.

But it doesn't seem like the way you described the relationship that you needed to like tell him you're going to disappear yeah no because you're not really in each other's lives but i do think you owe it to yourself to not give in to random hookups and random like moments of convenience and really enforce the boundary that if he wants you in his life at all, he needs to like man up and have the guts to explore a relationship. And you say like, listen, man, I don't know if you, I know you're just going to have a relationship, but like, I just want to reinforce that. Like, I just like to know, I'd like to get to know you more because I don't know if you've been listening. You're interested.

No, exactly. And I feel like you're interested in me and I don't know if I want to date you yet, but I do want to hang out with you more and find out. And I'd like to see if we can like grow. And like, if you're completely uninterested in having a girlfriend at all, and you know that, then yeah, we're just tell me and i'll respect that answer but like i just wanted to say one more time and see where you're at okay okay so do you think that i should like text him that or do you think i should text him asking to go get drinks or to see each other and say that in person what are you most comfortable with i mean i don't i don't know if one's gonna like change the outcome yeah yeah i'm always an advocate of face to face but like you might i just wouldn't want him to be like no i don't i don't want to meet up then that would but then i wouldn't get to say my piece kind of if you if you're like hey do you want to get drinks sometime and he's just like

no i'm busy yeah Yeah. Then I know. So you think that route? Yeah. Ask him if he wants to get drinks. If he says like, nah, I'm busy and flakes, then I think you just, you have your answer for now. It wouldn't shock me if you guys run into each other again

or he reaches out when he's bored or lonely, whatever. And at that point, you can respond and say, you can text the thing that you were going to text. And you say, hey, like I don at that point, you can respond and say, you can text the thing that you were going to text. And you say, hey, I don't want to blow you off or anything like that. I'm interested in you. And you just seem like that's not what you're looking for. And I don't really want to hang out at your convenience. And then you see what he says. Yeah, simple enough.

And then go from there. you basically just don't want to like only allow you to have him in your life whenever it's like convenient for him or available or you run into each other you're just like i am down to try and then explore and go on a couple dates like i'm not asking for the fucking world like i don't know if you're great yeah it's just like handful of times i've had a pretty nice time i don't fucking know you're great yeah it's just like a handful of times i've had a pretty nice time i don't fucking know yeah in fact if he like if you say this to him and he like does the same thing the last time literally just be like i just calm down yeah like i'm just i'm interested in you and then see what he says yeah okay okay i can do that i'm curious like what'd you guys

talk about for an hour and a half we talked about like anything like our families our work life social life our like friends i know um we have mutual talk about your dating lives you're talking about your dating lives no just avoided that yeah no we did not talk about dating life at all he like would um like bring we made playlists of like our top 15 like favorite songs and like when we were like a year ago and um we had like shown them to each other and he like brought up I like posted a selfie like the day before with a song and apparently it was on his playlist and he like brought that up but that was just like I don't know weird but he didn't say anything like he wasn't seeing anyone he didn't ask if I was seeing anyone like nothing so but he was clearly like wanting to be talking to me

because his friends were coming up and saying hi and trying to like see if he needed an out or things like that. And he kept brushing them off and staying with me. And the bar was closing. It's a bar that closes at 11. And so we were staying there. Or we weren't going to be staying there longer. So he stayed the entire time with me.

So I don't know. Clearly, he was enjoying it too. Yeah. What's a text she should send? OK, I don't know that this is. enjoying it too. So yeah. What's a text she should send? Okay. I don't know that this is, there's no bad idea in brainstorming. This is snowballing starting point. Um, be like, if I'm still flavor of the month, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like we haven't spent time together outside of that in like three or four months. time together outside of that in like three or four months.

So, okay, totally. Can you do a little white lie where you pick one very specific detail from your conversation and be like, I just saw blah, blah, blah. It made me think of you. What are you up to on Saturday? No, I don't want her to tell him that she's thinking about him. Because it doesn't need to be on his. Yeah, he doesn't need that ego boost. It's like reminded me of you.

Is he playful? Is he like. Also how chivalrous is he? Like is he the kind of guy. Who would like insist on paying for your drink? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

And he is very funny. And like has a good. We have a good. Like rapport going. So he would be able to like. Pick up on. The joke. Or like any sass.

That was there. And it would be like playful. Is there a new restaurant in your area you want to try out? We live right by like a bunch of restaurants. So yeah, I mean, I could go that route. What if you just text him, you owe me dinner? And I'm not saying why. You don't say why.

Yeah. And then he's like, what do you mean I owe you dinner? I just decided i think you owe me dinner okay do you have an iphone yes yeah okay you know like the laser effect yeah so one of my favorite things to do laser effect so it's like it's like it scans your thing it's like it shows up this huge visual effect on this message screen where it like like goes up and down like scanning with lasers and one of my favorite jokes is to be like

scanning for assholes with laser effect and then be like asshole detected. Like that's the joke. Yeah, I don't know if that's I don't hate just saying

you owe me dinner. I just But what if you were like is that But it's like why? Yeah. Great. He's asking questions.

He just responds no. I just think men like weird challenges like that they're you know like I think you definitely want to do dinner or would you be open to doing drinks or something because if it's like a bar with darts or like pool or whatever else then you could kind of be like I challenge you to a game or you know it'd be so cute honestly like what if you text them, you want a shot at the title? Wait, what was that? Just text them, you want a shot

at the title. Okay, response. What? What? Exactly. Okay. And then you challenge them to like, you pretend to be really good at pool. Maybe you are. Are you good at pool or darts or like something or mini golf? And then you say, I'm an undefeated mini golf champ i took third place in mini golf in my high school and i just don't think you can beat me

or yeah or if you were like yeah i'm the like just out of the blue tax i'm like the reigning air hockey champion like i think you start with do you want to shout out the title you're really into these vague yes every response to a nick you owe me dinner do you want to shout out the title you're really into these vague yes every response to a nick tax is just one do you want to make a bet because if a guy who's interested in you gets that message he's gonna like the playfulness the challenge the average dude is often competitive they'd like confidence and if he doesn't like you he won't go out with you yeah we're basing this text on the assumption that he has some interest in you and you want to see if he's interested in exploring so like let's not give a shit about what figuring out whether he likes you or not we're gonna just operate as if he might and if he doesn't respond then we you get you got your answer we want you

to be a little cocky yeah no i like that is there is there an arcade in your like i feel like in a lot of man is a big arcade girl arcade bar there's an arcade bar yeah would you be like would that be fun for you yeah i'd love that so then you can send a text it's like um like are you ready to lose at air hockey this weekend you're done i'm really good i'm tripling down i'm really good at ski ball put that on there you want to try the You want a shot at the title. And then he's like, what? He's like, and then you make up some sort of random. You're like, I'm an undefeated skee-ball champion. Yeah.

Yeah. I took second place at whatever. Skee-ball national. At my second place. Skee-ball. And I don't think you can beat me. Yeah. Just send that.

Okay. Do you want a shot at the title? Do you want a shot at a title? Does that feel good? I don't know if that's because I don't have a title but I like the idea you make up the title

it's like regional skee-ball champion I'll make you a trophy and ship it to you just so you have it your title is like make it up regional do you want a shot at the title? Your title is like, make it up. Regional, like. Do you want a shot

at the title? New text. That title is new text, invisible ink. Regional skeeball champion. I really think I'm right here.

What do you have to lose? I have nothing. I have nothing to lose. I am confident that it won't turn him off. And if it does, he sucks. Couldn't she say something like,

do you want to make a bet? Instead of, do you, like the title thing. I think it's something a guy would say, and I think he would think it's cool that you say it. Okay, so do you want to shout out the title? And he's like, what title?

And you can be like, self-proclaimed skee-ball champion. Not self-proclaimed. I like the self-proclaimed. She's not a champion. She doesn't want to be like. We have all confirmed he has a sense of humor so let's see if he has a sense of humor of course she's not the regional whatever the fuck skeetball champion you know what do you learn about like improv and comedy

own it like you know what i'm saying don't try to be funny just like commit to the joke yeah but also but establish a base reality she knows this guy. I wouldn't send this to some random person. First message on Hinge. Do you want a shot at the title? Actually, what's the worst? Honestly. One thing I'd like to know about you, do you want a shot at the title?

Ladies listening, try it out. Just be like, maybe I'm way off here. Okay, I think you should send it. What do we have to lose? Send it right now. So he'll say what and then

and then Nick's pitch is that you say I'm a four time regional skeeball champion yeah okay and I don't think you can beat me

make it absurd yeah yeah okay okay do you want a shot at the title that's it yeah

okay he'll definitely respond to that Nick do you think there should be a question mark or no question mark yes question mark yeah sure yes okay question mark okay okay wait ready three two one and when he's like what are you what are you talking about and you just be like i'm four-time regional skeeball champion and i don't think you can beat me and i'm just wondering if you want to shut out the title if he's like like, I'm no good at skee-ball,

I'd just be like, oh, well, I guess. You're like coward. Coward, yes. Send coward. I love calling men cowards. They really respond to it. I honestly, I think you should kind of low-key bullying him. Oh my God.

And get him to play for you. If you could get him on the date to the video game, you turn drinks, try to extend it, see if you can replicate that Yeah. If you could get them on the date to the video game, you drink, try to extend it, see if you can replicate that conversation. If all goes well, at the end of the date, just be like, I know, whatever, but like, I'm interested in you. And I would call them out for like,

I know you kind of like panicked last time I said I was interested in you. And I need you to like, hear me out. I'm not asking you to marry you but I I would like to get to know you more and if like if you can handle that I think this guy needs like I think you need to kind of constantly those little I also yeah be like I'm not trying to marry you don't flatter yourself yeah like you know yes and if you can handle me saying that I'm interested in you and I like to get you know you more I would like to like hang out more and see where it goes okay i think you need that kind of energy with this guy

for sure for sure okay we'll see we'll see how this goes yeah we want the update i'll definitely send you the update all right okay thank you guys so much y'all are the best our pleasure you make my week every week oh well we thank you for listening tell your friends i will oh we're so honored to have a skeeball champion such as yourself a regional ski of your work yeah amazing yeah and definitely if he doesn't bike call him a coward for sure for sure no question okay all right all right take care thank you bye bye thanks for listening guys don't forget to send those questions at asknickatcast.com cast for the cake if you feel like ordering don't text your ex happy birthday i'd really appreciate it on october 4th and uh becca moore on batch recap ellieiler. We're going deeper on Wednesday. See you tomorrow.