The Viall Files - E480 Bachelor In Paradise Recap w/ Jessica Radloff

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor In Paradise Edition! We are here with another episode, this time kicking off the premiere of this season of Bachelor In Paradise! Today we are joined by Editor, Writer and Author, Jessica Radloff to break down the premiere, some extra thoughts from The Bachelorette Finale, as well as some exciting Bachelor Nation tea. Reacting to further ripples from the finale, we revisit some of the craziness after being told that Tino is focusing on his mental health. We talk about the difference between looking for the why versus the justification, and how sometimes the truth hurts more than not having the answers itself. We also get into some Bachelor Tea, talking about the stunning breakup between Clayton and Susie, and the shocking rekindling of Peter and Kelley. We then get into talking about paradise, highlighting how Johnny got to show off more of his personality, Jesse looking more comfortable in a suit, and the reason everyone looks a little hotter on their second appearance on reality television. We also talk about how the blackbox censor over people’s butts make it look like they are doing something worse, if Michael A. is a daddy or zaddy, and Shanae and Genevieve reuniting after shrimp-gate. We also talk about Andrew getting a royal welcome with prince music playing during his entrance, Serene and Brandon looking ready to engage, and the potential triangle between Romeo, Jill, and Kira. We also talk about Lace always being the most authentic, Hunter’s potential intro in the upcoming full title sequence, and how Bachelor In Paradise is more fantastic than tragic.  “Everyone is just a little bit hotter!” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Osea: For clean body care that gives you facial skincare-level results, you’ve got to try OSEA. And right now we have a special discount just for our listeners.  Get 10% off your first order sitewide with promo code VIALL at http://www.OSEAMalibu.com. You’ll get free samples with every order, and orders over $50 get free shipping.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @jessicaradloff14 @JRadloff See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of The Vile Files Bachelorette Recap Edition. Paradise is back, and aren't we excited what an episode yeah we'll get into it i truly loved it we have a lot to dive into first and foremost jessica radloff is with us today of glamour magazine jessica's a good friend of mine i met her six six years ago six years ago in paradise what a it's come it's come full circle. It really, it's, I gotta say, I much more appreciate the climate that I'm in right now. It was hot and sweaty. It's not, I've never, you know what? I'm from St. Louis.

I know humidity. I've never experienced humidity like that. The minute I walked out of the Vedanta resort, my sunglasses started fogging up. I've never experienced that kind of, that kind of heat and humidity before. It was wild. It was insane it was the most i have a photo of you from that first time we met i remember the interview uh it was the first interview i think i enjoyed um well i you're so sweet i felt like you really like

we actually like had a conversation we did uh and uh yeah you really um it was the first time I felt like not despised in Vatner Nation. Because, you know, obviously Paradise, it was like, I felt like for the first time someone took the time to try to get to know me. That's very sweet. I always appreciated that. That's one of the nicest compliments. I appreciate it. I was extremely impressed with you, meeting you that day.

And I'm not just saying that because I've interviewed you. Let's just gas each other up. Yeah. No, seriously. But no, I was extremely impressed with you, meeting you that day. And I'm not just saying that because I've interviewed you. Let's just gas each other up. Yeah, no, seriously. But no, I was so impressed. I thought you were so thoughtful. You were so smart. You were also very coherent considering we were melting out there. And it was just, it was the most insane conditions ever.

I mean, I don't know how people look good on that show. They say that they don't. They look good. I thought I looked my best. On Paradise? No. And it's interesting because I was watching, and we'll get into it, watching Paradise.

Some people thrive on the beach. Some people... Oh, forget it. Like I like Jesse Palmer better in a suit. Really? I don't know if the beach is for Jesse Palmer. We've only seen one episode. We've got to give the guy a chance.

He crushes a suit. No, this is not... Yeah, listen. He crushes his suit no this is not you know listen i he crushes his suit but uh i think i feel like i was thriving on the beach you did you were really good for my curls you know i was in the really good shape you know it was like let's just you know take my shirt off and no you looked very good on the beach i enjoyed it but i was impressed with the person you were on the inside well i appreciate it we had a very good conversation and then we had another conversation about six months later when you became the bachelor over at the langham in pasadena for the tcas and uh i called you the most feminist bachelor

that we've ever had and do you still feel that way i do still feel that way i think that endeared you to me at that point when i uh well that means a lot. Whatever that means to you, I'm glad. You know, I don't presume to know what that means to everybody, but I like to think that I'm thought of as an ally to people. Yes, I think so. And now that I've read your introduction for your new book,

I stand by that a thousand percent. You're very much about like trying to understand everybody's perspectives and also admitting that you can't know everybody's different perspectives and the shoes they've walked in. So I think admitting what you don't know and how you're here to help goes a really long way. Yeah. I really appreciate that because I did put a ton of thought into that as regards to my book. Obviously, speaking of my book, it is out next Tuesday. So if you you haven't pre-ordered i'd really appreciate

you pre-ordering don't text your ex happy birthday uh like jessica said i really put a lot of thought into like i wanted to write a book based off of not only my experiences people from the show their stories some of my friends but like again it's just a book about as i said like ultimately if i would sum it up it's a book about trying to I said, ultimately, if I could sum it up, it's a book about trying to, if you've ever have felt stuck in life, especially around relationships and dating and love, but just like really anything, I think it helps people get unstuck because I've always felt pretty stuck about my choices and my decisions as it relates to other people. And whatever you're going through with relationships and dating, I think that's how I would summarize it, to help you feel a little unstuck and more confident in your choices

because we can't control other people. We do, I think, have more power and control than sometimes we get ourselves credit for. And that's certainly something I struggled with a lot early in my life. And so that's my hope for people reading it, whoever they are. It's not really a book about a guy telling anyone how to date or the top five things you should do or things guys like versus what women like or anything like that. So it means a lot that you notice that. I totally stand by it all. And one of the things that I loved, by the way, I didn't get to tell you this yet, is there's a part in the intro where you talk about the lies we tell ourselves in order to

create this narrative and what we want to happen. And sometimes the worst thing we can do to ourselves is make up this thing in our head about, well, this is why he hasn't done that, or that's why she hasn't done that. We tell ourselves these lies because we don't want to know the truth. And you hit the nail on the head with that. It's so true. I've done it. I still do it. It's a protective mechanism. I mean, no one talks to ourselves more than us. And therefore no one really has the opportunity to lie to us more than ourselves. And it's sometimes it's easier to look the other way or it's seemingly easier, but it doesn't, it doesn't usually pay off in the long run. As I always say, it's easy in theory, hard in practice. But the book is really just about kind of

little tricks I've learned along the way that have really, really helped me find peace in this world. Yeah, it feels like the book is a really good balance between that theory and practice of like being a little bit more on the practice end than I think most of the stuff I've written. And there's actually some really lovely reviews I would be thrilled to read, if that's okay. So one person wrote in saying, I just finished the book. Wow, it was so good. It really touched on so many of the experiences from my past. As I was reading it, every section reminded me of a situation I was in or one of my friends.

In my own situation, this book really put into perspective that I can only control certain things. I was in a situation where my boyfriend was not meeting my, quote, expectations, end quote, so I ended the relationship. I tried having an open conversation after this, but was ghosted. After reading the book, I realized that I was true to myself and vulnerable despite my anxiety from my previous relationship. I made the right choice by leaving once my expectations would not be met because I did not want to settle. The book taught me that I cannot control someone disappointing me by ghosting. It's a them problem. I realized that I'm currently upset about this breakup mostly because I was invested in the outcome. It also described healthy love and gave me validation that I was not asking for too much, just the wrong person who was not ready

slash did not want to commit to me. The book also described fuckboys and players. My ex who cheated on me was such a player, I was actually laughing while reading this section. It made me feel less alone and realized that so many people go through getting cheated on by players. The end of the book when he said you can actually reflect on getting through getting cheated on and feel proud, it made me more emotional because I don't feel like people talk about that enough. I think all people could benefit from the book. I will be suggesting it to my friends who are both single and in a relationship

because it covers everything. He really gets into specific scenarios like just got out of a relationship, situation ship that are so common. The book empowers people to maintain boundaries. I also feel like people who are nervous about putting themselves out there in dating should read this book because it puts into perspective a healthy mindset about dating. It teaches people to stop dating with the goal

of validation, rather finding someone with a true emotional connection. Funnily enough, I was feeling really discouraged about being single again after my breakup, and the book made me excited to get back into it. I wish this book was around a few years ago while I was getting into dating because it gives you guidelines on how to find healthy love and maintain your own boundaries along the way. The section I found most valuable was the part about when it's time to leave a relationship. In all of my past relationships, I've always been the type to try too hard. I'm glad I have this book because I will use it as a tool as I move forward with dating. The format is perfect

to be able to refer back to certain sections. Anyone can use this book as they navigate dating and relationships because it helps separate the ego slash emotions from reality

in a clear, logical way. Nick, send this person on a vacation. What a review. Oh my God, I know. That was like a thousand word essay. What is their name? Just give them a shout out.

It was me. I happened to write that about myself. I just drafted that up on the way here this morning. Super gracious review of the book by Dana. Dana, thank you for writing that in. A shout out to you. You didn't have to do that. And I really, really appreciate it.

All you Big Bang Theory fans out there Jessica also wrote an excellent book that we will discuss more later in the episode but see how good of a friend Nick is he hasn't even read the book and he just called it an excellent book Jessica don't say I haven't read the book just go with it

I want to be honest though journalistic integrity but thank you for saying that. But yeah, we're going to get into that in a second, too. Lots to get into. Okay, we got Patrick T. Also, I just want to talk briefly about last week's finale. A couple things.

One, if you follow me on Instagram, you probably noticed that I posted a picture of me and Billy Eichner. I saw that. What an amazing interview with Billy. That's out Thursday. It was a dream guest to have Billy on. He delivered. It was so amazing. Check out his new movie, Bros, coming out on Friday.

But also that means, as you probably have figured out, that Tino will not be this week. As I teased last week that we were going to have the exclusive with Tino, I have not given out hope that that still will happen. I've had a chance to talk to him incredibly briefly, but right now he's taking care of his mental health is my understanding. And as much as I certainly would love to have him on here and have him answer some of the questions I know you guys are so interested in learning about. I think, I think it's really important for everyone to, you know, just allow Tina to take care of his mental health, regardless of how you might feel about that situation. And so we wish him the best,

certainly wish Rachel the best as well. But I think it's really important that he, you know, just gets his heart right and gets back to a place. And if he eventually feels comfortable to share his story, he is certainly welcome here and I am still very optimistic that that can happen at some point but as disappointed as it might be trust me when I say Billy Eichner more than

makes up for it and Jason Jason from Gabby's I hate saying Gabby's Jason but Jason from The Betcherate will be next week incredible interview we already did it he answers a Bachelorette will be next week. Incredible interview. We already did it. He answers a lot of questions. That will be the following Thursday.

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Also, I thought more about the finale and, you know, we recapped it with Sheena right afterwards and nothing has really changed by my opinion, but I thought more about the finale and trying to kind of empathize with both Rachel and Tino. And I actually talk a little bit about this in my book and I made a TikTok about it, but there's a part of my book about that's called When to Ask Why and When Not To. And the book really is about the kind of contradiction about why we're so quick, we're so reluctant to ask people why early in dating to verify what they say to us, to make sure it's sincere or there's actual meaning behind it because usually early on,

people are quick to compliment us. And who are we to turn down a validating compliment? But sometimes we want to ask those qualifying questions to make sure that there's meaning behind some of those words because when we get excited, we can say things in the moment. And yet we're so willing to ask why when a relationship is over or we're disappointed. And when a relationship is over, when we are asking why, we don't really want to know why. Like why, you know, like again, acceptance comes from accepting the situation. It's not necessarily getting answers. Are you really getting closure from someone telling you once again and re-clarifying why they don't want to hang out with you anymore or why they don't like you? And so while it's very understandable, and I think we've all been there in Rachel's shoes, it's our egos that want to know why,

right? And so I get why Rachel, while talking to Tino and at AFR, was asking why, why, why, why, why. But here you have Tino. I think we often confuse reasons and justifications. Sometimes a justification is a reason, but not vice versa. And I think we will often confuse that. And I know you like Law & Order. We've all watched Law & Order. I know you SVU fans out there.

I know a lot of people in this podcast are probably a big law and order fans and think about it. Every episode crime is committed and they're always like to help them solve a crime or thinking about what's the motive. What's their reason for committing the crime? Like it helps them solve a crime. Who is, who was motivated to do this? That's a reason. Like, it's like, Oh, like why'd you rob the bank? You know, well, I needed the money. It's like, okay, great. Well, you're still going to jail. Like that's not a justification. It is a reason like it's like oh like why'd you rob the bank you know well i needed the money it's like okay great well you're still going to jail like that's not a justification it is a reason and when you say are cheated on and you start asking why like people have their reasons for for cheating it's not a justification you know maybe the reason was like oh you gave the ring back or you stopped paying attention to me you You didn't make me feel seen, things like that. You didn't spend quality time with me. Those are all

reasons. None of them are justifications. And so when Rachel is up there, kind of keep asking Tino why, Tino was trying to answer her question, but every time he opened up his mouth, it felt like an attack to Rachel. And I think a lot of people, because the discourse out there after the show, it seemed like everyone was on the same page. What Tino did was wrong. There was no dispute about like, if the guy cheated, then that's wrong. Like very few people are,

I think there's very few people out there being like, no, cheating's fine. That was pretty much unanimous. But the discourse seemed pretty split down the middle with between, oh, Tino was trying to explain himself versus like, oh no, Tino was trying to blame Rachel. And I think for the people who are thinking like Tino was trying to blame Rachel, again, I can understand and maybe you related to Rachel's experience. Maybe you've been cheated on in the past. I've been cheated on before. But when you ask a cheater why they cheated on you, trust me, they're gonna, they have their reasons. And when you ask a question that deep down you don't really want to know, but your ego does, because your ego doesn't want to think that you could ever get cheated on. Your ego wants to think, oh, I can never be cheated on. Why did you do that? And all of a sudden they're like, well, you didn't spend enough time for me. That's going to feel like an attack on your character, even though they might not even mean it. They're just like, well, if I'm being real, like, you know, we were at X, Y, and Z. Now that the person who

stepped out, they could have handled it a better way. They could have communicated the problem, worked with you, gone to couples therapy. Again, they didn't justify their actions by giving you their reason, but they do have their reasons. And so I think that's what we saw on AFR as Rachel wanting reasons because that's a human thing to want. And Tino trying to give her reasons because he had them. And some people felt like he was trying to make it justifying his actions. And certainly Rachel seemed to feel that way. And I think that's where you found the big disconnect. Yeah. And again, I empathize with both of them but

i feel like that's what was really going on like from my point of view yeah you're absolutely right i remember you posted this on instagram a video where you were talking about this a few days ago and i thought it was so smart it was you were so right about everything and i was kind of actually shocked when jesse said oh tino is here now let Let's bring him out. I'm like, wait, didn't we already rehash this at this location that Rachel and Tino were at? I'm like, we're going to talk about it again. What else is there to say? So it's like you do feel for Rachel. It's an awful situation to be in. But like you said, you're not going to get an answer. At that point, just say like, all right, it's over. It is what it is. Goodbye. Well, that's the thing. Because for most of us, cheating is a non-negotiable. Hey,

if you cheat on me, we can no longer date. You violated my trust. So it's kind of like, hey, you ceased to be the person I thought you were. I thought of you as someone who, regardless of our issues and problems, that you would address them in a more emotionally mature way rather than do the like low character thing or having a low character moment and listen that was a low character moment for tino but like we have made mistakes and again i think there's a lot of discourse there's a lot of questions out there i certainly i do think there's sides to every story i i do want to know while not have a justification i'd love to you know get some context around what happened. Because like I have, you know, think about it.

Like Tino did own up to it. I know Rachel was like, it wasn't right away. And I'm not saying you should give him a Nobel Prize for owning his mistake, but not everyone does. And I also want you to consider if Tino was a friend of yours, a sibling or whatever, if you know what you knew now and you had the power of time travel, if you knew how things would play out, regardless of how angry you were at Tino, if you could go back in time, would you tell Tino to own up to the cheating or just end the relationship? Because do we feel like what played out after Tino admitted it to Rachel was equitable and okay? Because I don't feel like if Tino, if I'm being honest,

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Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros.

Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here get listeners here if we just say oh we're two dudes that talk

about bravo people are gonna get tired of it already we need some oomph all right then fine let's try to do it with your voice brav bros good job just end the relationship but like you tino tino tried to do the right thing by owning up to it. And I'm sure he's not stupid. He knew that once I own up to this, I have no control over how Rachel and the show is going to handle it. And we all saw how they handle it. And it sure didn't seem very okay to a lot of people in terms of, yes, the guy made a mistake, but we absolutely put him on blast. And if we're being real, if Tino was your friend who made a mistake, would you have told him to own up to it? I mean, I'm such a big fan of being honest all the time. So I say, yes, he should have.

Even if you knew, like I'm saying, yeah, I would too. But if you could go back in time and you knew that if you went up to it, it's going to play out the way it did. Would you still do it? I think, yeah, because when you, cause it's going to hurt you, whatever, regardless down the road, like it's going to come back to bite you eventually. I know, but I just, he probably, I don't know. I just don't know if I, listen, I know the righteous thing to say is yes. But if I'm being real with my friend, I would have been like, well, if you could just end the relationship, I don't think you should stay in this relationship and not communicate what you did. Right. But if you own up to this, this is what's going to happen.

This is what's going to happen. Yeah. I think maybe the punishment should be more of a deterrent from the action, though, than like the honesty or disclosure of the action. Again, I'm not debating what the righteous thing to do is, but I think if we're keeping it real and we're being honest, I mean, put yourself in your shoes. If you, let's say, you know, I like to think I've never cheated. I have strong opinions on cheaters. But if you made a mistake, if you knew that you could either just end the relationship

and address it and find out afterwards or maybe own up to it after the show is over or be made an example of on national television and sacrifice your mental health, would you really do it i don't feel like it's a tough question i think the reason i say yes is because i just believe it's always the punishment like i'm not trying to be like oh no i would take that on the cheek no that would suck that was a terrible like you know and i think i and you see like i don't think rachel would have wanted to like even to come out at that moment like i think there was just a lot of ways about the the handling of that that were like like rubbed everyone the wrong way and we're like

definitively shitty i think with in terms of like your own actions though it's like i just really believe that like the more the longer you're dishonest about something the bigger the backlash is like it's the betrayal kind of like you say about contestants about how like we get we're so unforgiving with these contestants who get the like golden child perfect person edit on the show and then do some like kind of shady stuff on paradise because we feel betrayed by them and i think that principle applies here i get that but in that case you're you're assuming that it would still play out in the public forum you know and yeah if that was the case then sure like, like the longer you wait, like the more someone pays. But if you knew that it wouldn't play out

on a public forum, that it would play out privately between maybe Rachel and Tino, if he owned up to it after AFR, would you still put yourself in a position or put your friend in position to be absolutely flamed like the way he was. And, you know, again, he was wrong. I don't know.

But I also think we saw, like, they alluded to some other conversation that they'd had about, I think that had to do with family, where she was like, do you really want to air this out? So I think even though, yes, there were certain things that were, like, aired out in a way that was, like, crazy. But even her saying that, like, you know,

when people say cryptic things. But some stuff was like protected in that regard, you know? Yes and no. I mean, when she said, once she said, do you really want to talk about that?

What do you think we're all doing? We're all wondering. We're all digging. We're all assuming. And sometimes when we wonder and assume, we make up these grand, crazy stories about what it could be. I mean,

every time something cryptic is put out there, people will come up with the wildest fucking stories. And then a percentage of those people believe those assumptions to be true, in fact. And again, Tina, I do think people wildly underappreciate the comments and the exposure that people who go on the show have to face and again there's a lot of benefits of people who go on the show get to benefit from and the privilege of going in the show i get all that but a lot of people just get destroyed yeah and to me i don't know i think it's all it's all very easy to claim you would do the most righteous thing, assuming nothing would happen to you or this wouldn't happen to you, but I'm not so sure.

I totally get it. The thing that I've always wondered, and I don't know how many people have talked about this, about the finale, is that there was such an emphasis on Rachel and Gabby wanting to get engaged. If there wasn't an engagement at the end of this show, would they have ended up with other guys? Would Gabby have ended up with Jason? Would Rachel have ended up with Avon? I think it's ridiculous in this day and age that you have to be engaged after six weeks. And especially we know on this show by now that the engagement isn't really an engagement. It's just we're going to date exclusively.

And that's what it is. But it seemed like Rachel and Gabby, and this is where the one problem I have with the Bachelor franchise right now is that I wish we would see older contestants because when you're in your 20s, you don't know who you are yet. You are still figuring

everything out. And when you've got two women in their 20s who are like, I have to get engaged at the end of this, they're missing out on what might be the right person just because a relationship needs more time to develop. So I'm more curious now, like, would, if there was, if you take the engagement off the table completely, would they have chose differently? That's a great question. Also a great tease from my episode with Jason. And I'm really curious because I mean, we talked about this in the past. I think unfortunately the bachelorettes are faced with, I think, even greater pressure. And I don't know where this pressure necessarily comes from. I think it comes from the lack of empowerment

of instead of being the one to get down on one knee, you're hoping somebody else does. And so you have the opportunity for rejection by not being the chooser. Yeah, it's like the Bachelorette is in power the whole way through, the entire way. They are in charge. They're the captain. You feel the power as the lead for the most part. And at the very end, the entire way. They are in charge. They're the captain.

They, you feel the power as the lead for the most part. And at the very end, the bachelorettes have to give that power away and hope that that person chooses them. And I don't, it's just a product of, I guess our,

you know, an antiquated, like, you know, our, our societal, like, Hey,

you know, if you want to get engaged, typically, you know, the man gets down on one knee. I know we've become more progressive. You got Becca who proposed to Thomas, love that for them, but that's not always the case. But until that changes, again, I don't think we've ever had a bachelorette not be proposed to. And as I mentioned before, I know, especially in my experiences, that was something that at least i don't remember andy

acknowledging that she felt and and didn't want to be the first bachelorette who wasn't proposed to and there's this really peer pressure element because gabby's 31 but she's still oh is she yeah all right then i misspoke there thinking they're both in their late 20s i think and i think the point still applies because i think we're seeing like this age 30 deadline of marriage is like not what it was before. But I think it begs the question of did the idea that, oh, I might not get engaged and the other bachelorette might get engaged play a role in their mind as well? Even though they were clearly very friendly, there's this kind of peer pressure like, well, it's embarrassing if we both went on the same process and got different outcomes. How am I not supposed to feel like I did a lesser job?

if we both went on the same process and got different outcomes. Like, how am I not supposed to feel like I did a lesser job? Totally. The two Bachelorettes really, it really kind of screwed everyone on this season. It screwed Gabby and Rachel for a lot of reasons. Like, had to share time. Whether, it didn't matter that the show might not have, the show truly could have tried to go out of their way

not to pit the women against each other. But because the show is designed to have a single lead and now you have two, we compare. That's what we do. Like even on a show where whether they admit it or not, and again, I'm sure they are truly close friends. I don't doubt they have a true bond and a lasting friendship because of what they experienced together. But we compare. We compete. You know, my friends on the show,

like there's a level of competition and competition can be healthy. But when you're going through it in that moment, it's not leading you to make the healthiest choices, especially for your personal love life, which should only be the focus. And it's impossible to truly only focus on that. So I have a ton of empathy for both Rachel and Gabby

to feel that pressure, you know, whether it's followers or like, you know, to be liked. And I know you ton of empathy for both Rachel and Gabby to feel that pressure, you know, whether it's followers or like, you know, to be liked. And I know you want to, it's easy to criticize, oh, well, they should care more about their own story. And yeah, we can critique that. But like, again, until you are experiencing this world, anyone who sits there and says they know how they would handle it, it's just impossible. Forget it. You could never know. I don't know how people do it i mean i would just i don't like to watch myself do it you know so just the thought of like really just burying it all on tv like oh and and just maintaining a relationship outside of the show like it's the relationship starts out that start

outside of the show especially on the bachelor and bachelorette not paradise that you're set up for failure without question and i think that brings us to like one of the first items for bachelor t which is the clayton and suzy breakup where we saw even a breakup that i think it felt like those these were two like grounded individuals who went through it on the show like they knew in entering this relationship like sure they it had existed in this vacuum but they'd also seen some real insane adversity and like shit went down so i think there was like this big kind of opinion within bachelor nation of like okay this relationship might have some real durability and yet we saw that the in the statement that they put out that it was just like there's too much to heal from like the garden like the soil that you're planting this like relationship scene

and it's just like not fertile like yeah how many times can you try to like look the other way so to speak about like things that are bothering you or hurt you and it's you know it's easy to say well i'm not gonna let that bother me because it happened on the show but we are we're human beings and even though like i could say oh well don't let it bother you it It's your ego. Like, again, like, as I always say, like these things are much easier in theory and hard in practice. Again, we critique this show. We're going to about to critique and have some fun recapping Bachelor in Paradise.

This is an edited show. We don't know these people. We're critiquing behaviors we see on the show. Right. We don't, you know. We're not above the fray. We're not above the fray. But like, let's just remember that we don't know them.

We're not judging their character as human beings. And people do make mistakes. I've made a ton of mistakes on this show. I've been criticized. It's okay. I accept the criticism. I always hoped that people would give me an opportunity if they wanted to meet me in person

to learn about who I was. And that's it. And let's just be careful to do that with all these people. But I'm really sad about Clayton and Susie. So was I. I really loved them. I've talked about that before. I still love them as individuals. I haven't had a chance to meet Clayton in person. But as I'll always say, piggybacking on what I just talked about, it's really hard to navigate this world it's harder to criticism I would no one was harder on Clayton for the choices and mistakes he made during his

season but like I have so much respect for Clayton because he was willing to like hear it learn from it accept it not try to make excuses and be better for it and you will always have my like unconditional respect because like that's all we can really do and i think i felt like clayton really owned his much his mistakes and his choices i think well he might not be your cup of tea or whatever but i feel like that's that was a high character moment for him to own own his mistake because like we we none of us oh yeah yeah. And I think Gabby and Rachel would even admit now after going through their season that they probably like feel for Clayton a lot more seeing what they experienced. I hope so.

That would be like one question I have for both of them is like, how do you see what happened to you with Clayton? Do you see it differently at all? Again, it doesn't excuse anything Clayton might have done but you can still have empathy for the difficult position. Like I wish we all made the right choices

when faced with adversity. And I wish we all had high character moments but we don't always. But I'm sad for them. I really Also, they're so cute. It must have been so sad

in their chat like their texts going back and forth being like which picture should we use for this breakup post? And it's such a great book. I know. Yeah.

Well, you never know what could happen down the road. Yeah. Well, speaking of down the road. Speaking of down the road. Peter and Kelly. What the fuck, Peter and Kelly? Okay. Can you send them a copy of this book?

Stop texting your ex happy birthday you know what that brings me back to when you were just saying earlier in the podcast about like would should tino have admitted you know that he kissed someone else and broken up like look how this relationship has played out post show like on instagram everywhere like we i feel like we're watching the show continue with these two with i should so you I reach out to him and have him on? Yes. Someone else probably has to. I'll DM him right after the show.

I am curious. I mean, like Liz said, we've had fun with this before. Kelly went on a kind of a PR, like she was not kind to Peter post-breakout. I know. And listen, I wasn't there. I don't know what they experienced. She had every right to communicate her frustrations.

Like I get sharing it, but like if I'm Peter, I'm just like, hey, like there's just a lot of pressure of being perfect. But then there's also conversely the, like we'll choose familiar pain over unfamiliar pain every time. And so it's like, maybe there's an element of like, it's gotten pretty, pretty bad. And at least we know what that looks like. I guess. But it's still insane. I'm really curious what brought them

back together. Yeah, you got to have Peter on. I would love to have them both on together. This just makes me miss Chicago. I was in Chicago the other week, and I remember it was a beautiful night, and I was like, I miss this place. Nothing like it. I miss it. I miss the food. Golden City. My favorite donuts are there.

That's what I'm thinking of right now. I'm dying to find out what, maybe there's something to learn from, but I hope what brought them back together was more healthy choices. I hope it was love. That's true. And not toxic stimulation. I know. Listen, I've gotten back together with exes plenty of times in my life. Typically wasn't for the right reasons, but there are exceptions to every rule.

I'm curious why they feel they are the exception. They must feel that. And we all do when we make these choices. Right. You can write about this in your next book yeah i don't know but uh i am i am dying to know yeah well fascinating final point of bachelor tea we have a brand new relationship uh mike johnson and megan king uh yeah uh megan hang megan king real housewife yeah friend of show person. I haven't yet to meet Mike in person.

Talked to him on the phone. Heard nothing but good things. I've never met him in person. I've interviewed him once. Very lovely. Listen, finding love is so damn hard. So if anybody finds that connection, I'm thrilled. It's so hard to get to that point.

Good for them. They could just literally be having a conversation about fantasy football there well okay so originally because like it's loud in clubs and you do have to like they're at a strip club in vegas that's a strip club that's spearmint really sorry hold on no that's no they don't allow pictures at spearmint rhino um i'll there's a another photo that i can pull up in just a moment but quickly they did meet while he was being interviewed for her podcast and so at first it was sort of like oh they're just having fun stop speculating on this um but then they were on the red carpet uh they went to the i heart

music radio festival together um and they were joking about how being like you know this is our second first and second dates so it is definitely a budding romance. It is not an established connection, but they both confirmed that they're dating or going on dates at least. Good for them. Wow. Good for them. Dying to find out more.

A lot of love being budded up in Bachelor Nation. Should we hop into Paradise? Let's hop into Paradise. By the way, I tried to dress appropriately for Paradise today because I was like, you know, it's the end of summer. It's my last chance to wear a dress with flowers. I wanted to be themed.

I've watched the show twice now to make sure that I got everybody. I really liked this episode. Okay, did I? It felt like the intros were great. When I was on Paradise, I felt like they were more willing to make it a comedy along with the drama. I felt like they got away from that the past few years.

And if episode one is any indication for how the rest of the season might be, I am hoping that when the drama starts, they don't stop, you know, having some fun with these people and allow them to like show more of their character. I mean, just shoot. In the intro package of Johnny,

I felt like I got to know him infinitely more any time than on, like in the first five minutes than like any time the entire season with Gabby and Rachel. Yeah. You know, like again, these guys had no we get to get to know any of these people and between his rap video and his first 30 seconds on the beach like Johnny's got some game he's got some charm

it was like really it's more personable and I like how you know there's a little bit of making fun of themselves and like leaning into these characters it's fun i laughed a lot throughout this episode did you have any qualms about the fact that it was like johnny was coming fresh off of gabby season and like did the way that did seeing him in this context kind of alter your the way you understood his decision to kind of leave towards the end of gabby season and decide he wasn't ready for an engagement well no i mean because like piggybacking off what we talked about, and especially, again, you got to listen to episodes, Jason,

because it really puts some context into the time these guys didn't have, et cetera, et cetera. Everyone's time was essentially cut in half and then some. These guys were expected to consider engagement after a few hours yeah literally yeah and so you know again like they also every time you go on this show for the first time

it's it's a true mind fuck you don't know what you're getting in you don't know what you're signing up for and so i think johnny's coming down with a little more confidence, a little bit more familiarity with the scene, a little less camera shy. He's had some time to reevaluate like his decisions and how he might have overthought, you know, and how he might have self edited out of fear of how things were played. All these things play a role. Doesn't make him disingenuous before, just makes him human. And now he's here to be like, you know what? I'm gonna maybe go for it. And it's a hell of a lot easier to be yourself. Think about it. It's just like on The Bachelor, everyone shows up and be like, I gotta fight with these 30 fucking guys? Like, what the fuck? Johnny shows up and there's like two beautiful

women on the beach and a couple guys. It's like, oh. This is like a normal... I'm going to a bar. Although I got to say, I thought it was hysterical when Serene shows up and she's the first one and Jesse's like, you're the first one. And she's like, screams in delight.

And I'm like, but there's nobody there. I know, who are you going to make show talk with? She was so excited to be the only one, the first one there. And I'm like, does that mean you get the whole buffet to yourself first? Like what, who is there that you're excited to see? anyone else again I love Jesse he's a great I've really enjoyed him as the host but like I gotta have some fun with him here when when Serene came down it's like and

then he said something like he tried to make some joke about her being a teacher and giving up like him now being ready for the summer vacation and it like for like it it seemed like even he understood and serene that like he told the joke and he's like this could get weird weird really fast and he he like moved and he went from like jesse telling a joke to like okay this could get creepy and weird to like football analysis jesse it was like hey like you're a teacher now on the beach anyway so we have the beach and we have like 14 guys coming up and you're gonna walk down the stairs and you get about 30 seconds to score and like you got you got jesse palmer football analysis he really like broke it down he does like his hand things he went from it was like i thought it was hysterical

because you could tell he was like all right this joke i don't know if it landed let's move on you know like you know like it's you know, Jesse's like one or two gray hairs. You got, you know, like you got a serene, you know, beautiful young woman. And it's just like the, the dynamic, it's a little touchy, you know, like jokes can go either way. So it's like, let's just move on. I'm going to go football analysis. And it's like, it was such, I just picked up on it. I don't know if anyone else did, but I thought it was kind of hysterical i did i totally know what you mean and it is so funny yeah so yeah serene looks great uh everyone like it's always funny i think i don't know what you but like you can tell most people maybe not uh gabby rachel's guys they've at least seen themselves

on a tv show they're a little bit more fresh they've gotten more sleep they've been working out like everyone's just a little hotter than we. They've gotten more sleep. They've been working out. Like everyone's just a little hotter than we last saw them on TV. Yeah, they're like, this gets to be my second draft of my Bachelor appearance. Yeah, 100%.

Like they get all the notes. You're just like, oh, like I, ooh, like I should not have worn that bracelet or, you know, whatever it is. So like everyone's just a little bit more like, you know, game phase ready. Except, and it's fascinating how for some people,

that second draft that they want is a lot more loose. I'm thinking about Kira because it feels like she came out swinging. Wait, first of all, I don't remember Kira

from her season. I remembered her. She showed up in a lingerie, in lingerie and like a little stethoscope. But I covered this show. I was like, where was I?

I mean, there's so many people. I think she went home week two or something. Oh, God. Seriously, I was like, I don't know I mean, there's so many people. I think she went home week two or something. Oh, God. Seriously, I was like, I don't know who this woman is. Apologies to Kira, but I was like, oh. But that was kind of a cringeworthy. But she made sure you did know who she was.

Oh, she did. And that was the most cringeworthy intro, I have to say, watching. I don't mind it. I would have loved, because essentially, I would have loved to have her being carrying a giant flag that literally said freak because that's what she was trying to like. She was she was like, I don't know if I would do porn. She was like, wink, wink. I'm a freak. Like, let me fly my freak flag. And it would have been funny from a pair. Like, I think that was a miss by producers. Jill said that too, right? Maybe. Yeah. Wait, there's a mystery that I need to have you guys help me solve because I have watched the episode twice now. When Kira interrupted, it was Jill and Romeo, right? Yes. Okay. When she interrupted and then Jill said, she took my drink. I've watched this back three times now because I rewound it. That's not a word now because, you know, whatever. Anyway. Okay. She said that Kira took, Jill said Kira took her drink

and then she leaves right away with a drink. So there was a third drink there. There must have been another drink there. And I'm so confused. Can you, someone help me out here because I've watched this now. And I'm like. I don't know. She said she took the drink.

So then she would have left that conversation without a drink to go get a new drink but she walked away with the drink and then Kira still had a drink. So I need to know the mystery of what is going on with the drinks. Because they did show like a little replay section during Jill's confessional where they showed Kira taking

a drink. So it's like, where are the drinks coming from? Because then Jill walked off with a drink. Yeah. So wouldn't she have not drinks coming from? Because then Jill walked off with a drink. Yeah. So wouldn't she have not had a drink? Well, I mean, let's talk about, I didn't really get that dynamic. I didn't really get what was going on. I don't know if we're supposed to.

Okay. Well, do you mean like the backstory? Like in terms of like the context of like Jill, Romeo, Kira? They all live in New York. You know what I found most interesting about that? I was like, these are three people who live in New York. And I mean that as a compliment. I love New York. I love New York people.

I feel like they're a little bit more life experience, a little more like maybe more progressive with their points of view on life, a little less buttoned up, you know? And I felt like I saw three people like be a little more open-minded. It almost sounded like Romeo, I mean, his name's Romeo. He's a mathematician. He seems very cultured. But when he was talking to Kira, being like, I'd really like your permission to pursue this,

you know what it sounded like to me? I feel like they've all fucked. Probably. Together? I don't know. Well, he did say he kissed Kira in the club, which is such funny alliteration. It just seemed like a very 2022 progressive conversation of like we have a thing it honestly sounded like people for a moment before kira kind of lost it that that were really good at setting expectations and boundaries here's the thing we've talked and

we talk about relationships on the show. Talked about non-traditional relationships. And I'll just say this. Once you can master setting upfront expectations and respecting boundaries, as long as you have the confidence that your partner, whatever your expectations and boundaries are, will prioritize your expectations and respect your boundaries, that couple is quite capable of anything. And if you have trust and trust that your partner will respect the boundaries that you have set, you can really accomplish a lot and you can really

explore some non-traditional things is all I'm saying. Again, I don't subscribe to that, not for me, but I have friends who have, and it's really about like, again, if you trust that you have a partner, that whatever your boundary is, it would mean a lot to me if you respect this boundary and know that they would. You are really capable of being open-minded to a lot of things. And I almost felt like that's what we were seeing between Romeo and Kira. You know what I'm saying? Like two sophisticated New Yorkers been like, you know, we'm saying? Like, like two sophisticated New Yorkers been like, you know, we fuck, but like, we're not going to get married. And I like Jill as a potential relationship status. That kind of how it's how it felt a little bit. That's so interesting

because my take was kind of the opposite of like Romeo, maybe knowing that Kira could be a liability if she felt wronged in the situation. Like I interpreted it as like, so my understanding. I think you ended up being right. Well, my understanding was because Jill and Romeo, they sort of like, before Kira even shows up, like there's this allusion to the fact they went to school together, that he's always liked her.

Like I feel like long game, slow build friendships who like, oh, like, you know, both of them would probably be down for something more. And then Romeo and Kira had just like drunk make out on the, like in the club. And so he was like, even though I have this like much more longstanding history with Jill, I have technically kissed Kira. And so I'm just going to be so abundantly communicative and careful and polite. So that way I like don't step on any toes here. I also want you guys all to pay attention to how Romeo handled this.

So well. We've seen other people come down in paradise with some fuck boy behavior i'm like i'm not your words not mine um and they always come down kind of like a little secretive you know it's just like hey i'm here to find love you remember me i'm the person who just only wanted to find love on the beach and romeo came down talks his Jesse, like, listen, I've been talking to two women. They know me. We have history. He just named it. And now all of a sudden, Romeo is just a guy who's upfront and communicating. And we just see Romeo as a guy who's like, yeah, of course you're talking to two people. Like, why wouldn't you? You're hot. Like, they're hot. Like, why wouldn't you, you know, we just don't like people who are like liars and don't want to, who would hide the truth,

you know, and Arna is up front and Romeo handed it like an absolute, like he named it, he owned it and no one, I don't think, I mean, and he made a choice between the two women. Yeah.

And it was quick to make a choice. Yeah. And I love that. I mean, really big fan of Romeo. Where did the third drink? That's what I want to know. I don't know. Also, really big fan of Romeo. Where did the third drink go? That's what I want to know. I don't know.

Also, I thought Andrew was very endearing with Teddy. They did Andrew such a solid. Again, I thought the editing. So sweet. That slow motion. Did you pick up on that? Yes. His turn when he comes down the beach.

Yes. And Andrew has the absolute best smile and they just i mean i a lot we all kind of fantasize as young people when we watch tv shows and movies of like how cool it would be to have like a certain moment right as a young man there's this movie called reservoir dogs it's a very famous movie back in the day it's iconic and there's a slow motion walk and i think like, I know me and my guy friends would always joke with how cool it would be to have like some slow motion like moment. And like Andrew had one of the, I feel like one of the cooler single like quick moments

in the history of the show to have a show capture a beautiful smile that you have with good music in a slow motion turn is iconic. And I am so envious. We need Andrew on your podcast. I am so envious of what the show did for Andrew there. I mean, deserving. I love Andrew. I've met him several times. I said this when Andrew first came on the screen on KD season and meeting him in person is only verified what I've always thought is that Andrew has so many qualities that I wish I had. I feel like Andrew's strengths are some of my weaknesses. Interestingly enough, having gotten to know Andrew, I think he might say the same thing about me, which I think is funny how it works some of the other way around. My strengths may be something that, but I am so envious of, he's so personable and so open and

so likable. He's such a joy to be around. He's truly one of my favorite people having met him in Bachelor Nation. An absolute joy. A thousand percent. I was going to say, a lot of times, especially during the pandemic, we do so many Zooms with the Bachelor contestants and you really get to know them a lot more when you have these moments before you start recording because you just get to sit there and talk to them. And I remember last year, Andrew and I were just like shooting the shit, just talking before our interview. And I just adored that guy. He was so nice, so sweet. Like I wish he would be The Bachelor. If he doesn't find love with Teddy, like I just thought like this is such a great guy.

And I loved how sweet he was with Teddy. And, you know, he's like, I just am so attracted to you. Like he was so nervous. It was so cute. But like really endearing and engaging to watch. So he's great. I don't think he's a closer though. Yeah, he could be right. What do you mean by that? I think there are people who are closers, you know, men, women too. I

don't, it's not a gender thing, but like people who, listen, he's so endearing how nerve him and Teddy, oh my God, like their date, Teddy, obviously the identified version, you know, limited dating history. And what you saw are like two two attractive charming delightful people who like each other jumping into a big margarita who were just like their first like half of the conversation was very it was very endearing but it was like it was very youthful like in the words of michael and it was really sweet but like listen like it's sometimes it can be very nerve-wracking to, as someone with a sales background, it's hard to ask for the sale. They teach you how to sell all this, talk about this, talk about that, what you like, what you don't like, but it's really hard to ask for the sale, so to speak.

And in relationships, it's really hard to just own how you feel without trying to minimize it, right? And that takes confidence. And when you do it, people find it attractive and find it sexy, especially in the moment. Sometimes when you see it on TV, you can cringe a little bit, but in the moment, people like that. Men like that too. When women do it with them, when they're confident and about how they feel about them and they just really own it. And that's what I mean by closer. Someone who like at the end of the day can own their feelings without trying to, what's the word I'm looking for? Sometimes we will almost undersell what we're saying. You know, you'll say like, you put

on, you know, I don't know. Like, I don't don't i'm not really sure like you don't say with confidence right like brandon the like brandon's a closer brandon is a fucking closer that guy came down he's like i am here to close he walked up to serene and he he like locked eyes with her he like captured her gaze it's awkward when you make eye contact someone your natural instinct is to look away. He doesn't. And when he has her attention, he was just like, I just want to stop you and say how beautiful you are. I'm sure he has said a lot of other things not just related to her beauty.

But like Brandon's a fucking closer. And that's what I mean by closer. The juxtaposition between watching Andrew on a date with Teddy and watching Brandon with Serene, that's what i mean by closer like what the juxtaposition between watching andrew on a date with teddy and watching brandon with serene that's what i mean by closer agreed and you have closers michael a is a closer oh my god when they were like justin not daddy's got some magnetism that was one of my favorite oh my god i didn't know what his daddy was i had to look that up yeah am i crazy should i i mean i've also been writing a book for two years i've been underground like i did not know what his daddy was and i had to look that up i don't know i don't know if michael a was it a zaddy he might have been a daddy but now he's a zaddy man those arms he has find his groove too he was just like i think you're gonna see michael a

like what i think again i think he's incredibly sincere and genuine also love Michael A Katie's man some really great guys truly Justin I've gotten a chance to meet him what I would say about Justin also maybe not a closer Justin super earnest

Justin more than any guy I have met from that show on the beach now there for the right reasons. Truly Justin, maybe even too much. I would argue he sincerely wants to meet someone on, on the beach. Like I really believe he is a really earnest guy and genuine about meeting someone and connecting with someone. And that's my, like having had an opportunity to meet Justin, that's my read on him. A truly genuine person who truly wants to meet someone. And I truly believe that Justin cares more about that than the TV element.

It's not to say other people care about it more, but I truly believe that Justin, like more than anything, wants that for himself and hopes to find it on the beach. And how do we feel about him and Genevieve? Yeah, I don't. They both think each other is hot. Here's another mystery I have for you guys that I was thinking about the other night. It has been, what, 25 years since ABC showed franz's behind on nypd blue and yet in 2022 we are still showing these black boxes on everybody's behind what is is that just like a running joke at this point

or like i'm like it takes me out of the storyline because i'm like another box it makes it it makes it seem even worse than what it probably is that's what i was saying where it kind of because like with serene she's someone who's just just so polished and classy and everlessly beautiful. And then they show her cartwheeling with the black box and it's like, oh, okay, party, Serene. Yeah. I kind of hate it because I think it draws unnecessary attention to specifically women who it implies they're doing something wrong. Right. It implies that we've got lips out on the beach.

Dennis Franz did it 20, 30 years ago. Who cares? I don't like it. I think they did that, but I think they could lose that. Agreed. Not necessarily because I think subconsciously it's suggesting that anyone who is wearing a black box is dressing inappropriately. Inappropriately, yes. Preach it, Nick. It's like a dress code dressing inappropriately. Yes. Preach it, Nick.

It's like a dress code violation on TV. Yes. I kind of hate it. You know people. Spread the word. Tell people. I mean, speaking of dress, though, how do we feel about Jacob, the man who came down with a leaf on his-

I think Jacob, the name does not suit him at all. That's what I think. What would you call him? Tarzan. I'm not having sex with you, Tarzan. Also, that was another thing I think. What would you call him? Tarzan. I'm not having sex with you, Tarzan. Also, that was another thing I noticed. I'm telling you, I was picking up on all the observations.

When Jacob and Sinead were making out, they managed to hold their drinks so steady. It did not spill at all. I mean, I would have had it all over me. I'm like, wow, they've got some experience here with the drinks. That was filled to the top and it just stayed that way.

Nick, I know what you're going to say. Are you going to talk about Sinead's redemption arc? Well, not yet, but yes. I mean, Jacob, I loved it because he was having fun. Clearly he's having fun. Let's have some fun. Good for him. He played into it.

That is not the name that I think of. When I cringe, yes. It's his thing. Good for like, leaning into his character. But Jacob had me quaking in my boots. Because at the beginning, he was talking about what he likes in women. He's like, you know, and with their eyebrows, I like them to be, like, beautiful. He has eyebrows? And he was talking about the eyebrows in such detail.

And that's totally the kind of thing that, like, if I'm dating men, like, I don't think I need to worry about that to that level of detail-oriented than with women. But he was like, you know, it's the kind of thing where it's like when you're having girls talk, it's like, he's not going to notice that. Who gives a shit? And he noticed. Oh, yeah. He is so detailed about that area. Do you think he notices or just knows to be specific because it will make him seem unique? A little bit of both.

I don't think it was like, oh, he's so thoughtful. It was like, oh, he's so thoughtful. It was like, oh, he's so specific with his requirements for attraction. Yeah. Yeah. Then I was looking at Genevieve's eyebrows because I was like, because that was the next person they showed. I was like, what does he think of her? I know.

I'd like to know his people that he rates eyebrows for. It makes me so, so, even talking about this, I'm like, nobody look at my eyebrows because it makes me so subconscious. What I will say, next time look at my eyebrows because it makes me so subconscious what i will say next time you watch check out johnny's eyebrows beautiful trip they're a trip now i gotta look what do we think of of hunter deciding you know like well jacob's gonna be tarzan hunter's like you know what i'm gonna fly that flag for ibs and just like oh gosh immediate shit jokes and poop jokes. I mean, good for her, I guess. Everyone poops, but.

What, you hate poop? I'm just like, I accept it as a reality of something that happens. I feel like you're in the 75th percentile at least for people who feel discomfort and disdain for bowel movements. I guess what I'm saying is Hunter is someone who had an early exit on her season. I'm sure a lot of people were like, who the fuck is Hunter? Yeah, I didn't remember her.

I'm pretty sure she was the snake lady also. Yeah, I don't know. But I couldn't help but think Hunter is like, all right, well, it didn't go the way I wanted. How do I get people to remember me? What's something that I can own? What's something that I identify with that other people might struggle with? I mean, hey, I'm sure a lot of people like a struggle with that men women yeah you know and she's like you know and i'm just gonna own shit no pun intended i'm gonna and uh i'm going to uh talk about how i can't like i at any moment i might shit my pants it feels like the and it's just like what a guess. The hot girl IBS movement is strong. We are here.

We exist. I mean, I mean, yeah. I also, I think, I do feel like IBS. Regardless of gender. I mean, I'm just like. No, no, no. It's definitely a gender defying thing, but I also feel like there has been a rise on the internet of like the term hot girl IBS.

This is new to me. I did not know this. This is fascinating. Maybe this is my TikTok algorithm. I can't wait though until next week when we get the like real opening credits oh yes people

yeah I'd live for those I mean clearly Hunter will be taking a dump yeah clearly clearly

not at the Vedanta they'll move her to Zagulita and they'll do it there I mean they're like because like when they do that they're they usually like

they usually do that towards the end like they don't do that right away there's always're like, cause like when they do that, they're, they usually like, they usually do that towards the end. Like they don't do that right away. There's always like some off day and then they'll be like, what do you want to do? Do you have any ideas? What did you do? Um,

you got hit in the head. I got hit in the head with a soccer ball. Oh, right. And then, and then, and then they were like, Josh,

you want to kick a soccer ball? Uh, ha ha ha. You know, um, it was all like good fun. Like I, I, I knew that. Right. It was was gonna play out that way yeah um i don't know

if josh knew uh he might have yeah oh my god i don't think he might have they might have been like hey we're gonna hit nick in the head of the soccer ball i do feel like that was a really accurate thing for your personality like kind of getting hit in the head with a soccer ball yeah i'm being like i was taking a selfie I mean, it's meant to be fun. That's what I like about Paradise. It's like it's a little bit less like everyone's freaking out about right reasons. It's a little

corny. We accept that these are TV personalities who are here once again to come back on TV. And while I'm sure they all are down to meet someone, they're all here to make TV too. And it's fine. Whatever. Fuck it. Let's have some fun. And so I am really curious what they're going to look like. But we do know Hunter will be taking a dump. Should we touch on lace? Oh, gosh. Oh, my God. She had the best line of the night

with what I even wrote it down. Wait, I want to get it right. But she was like, I think I look prettier than ever. Yeah when she i just thought hotter than ever yeah i'm my hottest i thought that was hysterical and no one's paying it it was something i um i haven't talked to lace in a long time she was on your season of paradise we are on the same season of paradise i don't think she's lying by saying, season three, a lot of great characters. So many. Fantastic season.

There have been other great seasons, but season three was, it was up there. Yeah, it really was. So I don't think she's wrong by saying, again, I think it had some comedy elements.

I think it was, you had obviously the Jared and Ashley saga, a big part of that. Yep. Josh and Amanda, myself was there, Carly and Evan,

like great, great cast of people. I always found myself, I always really liked Lace. I remember meeting her. She was coming off of whatever season she was on. I mean, first of all,

whoever you are, Haley, males, miles, moless, or whatever. I didn't remember her either. You seem nice. You went home night one. But like, you don't get to talk shit. Anyways, what I like about Lays, and I remember meeting her, you know, every time you meet

someone is like on the beach. You also like, this was a perfect example of just how much it matters to know one person. this was a perfect example of just how much it matters to know one person. Like, and just even in society, like when you, when familiarity, how, how scary it is to go in solo,

everyone who comes down to the beach, everyone's kind of like, Oh, I don't know this person. And all it takes is one person to be like, Hey, I like you. I can cling to you.

Everyone else is like, Oh, it's okay to be nice or it's okay to know them. And when lace comes down, everyone's just like, I don't know. Do you think they told them to do that? No. Because she was like, hi. And they had no idea.

I think it's just the human condition. That just happens. You're just kind of like, we, I think, are naturally clicky people. We identify with familiarity. We're very resistant to things that are different. And I think you saw that in that atmosphere. It's still always going to be very high school and very clicky. You see that. I think it's just human nature. But what I like about Lace is she was always real. And I know you guys probably noticed this on the show. I don't have grudges with

people. She was always real. The girl who fakes her birthday. Yeah, but she owned it. She didn't lie. She did. You know what I'm saying? Like, whatever. She just had some fun, but like... But don't these people watch the show

to know who she was? How could you not remember Lace? It's six years ago. So... It was a long time ago. Not everyone... She was, I feel like, my impression of her,

she was pretty, she was iconic and messy. And she got engaged. Which is memorable. She got engaged. She didn't, like, leave after a week she got engaged to grant i listen i just think on this show as we talked about before people are never showed we don't we never see everyone's like full profile of who they are we get and i just trust and identify more with people who are willing to be more themselves. Like we are all, we all have insecurities.

We all have vulnerabilities. Some people see me as confident. My critics might call me cocky, but I, people always ask me like, where do you find your confidence? And I find my confidence through, you know, it's a trick I do when I go out in public and I see someone, if I see someone who I find a slightly like it's a trick I do. When I go out in public and I see someone, if I see someone who I find a slightly, like it's, if I see someone I find a little bit intimidating or I'm drawn to, or if I see someone that I don't care for, I'm always asking myself,

what do I think they might be insecure about? What makes them sad? What does this person worry about? Because we all do. And once I have planted in my head, it humanizes everyone for me. So if I don't like them as much, it at least allows me to be careful about prejudging them and just accepting, well, they might not be my cup of tea. There's at least maybe a reason why they could be acting out the way they do. And if I am intimidated by someone, it just makes me go, they're probably just human, right? And so when I was always around Lace, I trusted her because while she might be sloppy and an imperfect person, and I'm sure she has things to work on,

she is comfortable with just being herself. And this show has a lot of people who walk in polished and work so hard to hide their insecurities and the things that they worry about. And it's not that they don't have them. It's just that they're not willing to show them. And they show them, I mean, like, I mean, I hear it when we talk about, like, I hear some horror stories about things that people have done behind scenes. And even from your classiest and your favorites out there, everyone's messy. We've all been on reality.

Like, we're going on reality TV. You don't have to name who, but can you share one of the, can you just share one of the actions? It's not uncommon for people, okay, I'll give you one. When relationships have happened, it's happened I know multiple times,

that people are aware of how well they are liked and how well they are not liked. They're also aware of people in relationships, how well their partners are liked and not liked. And oftentimes in relationships, especially in, listen, in regular relationships, when things aren't good, we, despite our claims to love and care about these people, sometimes we can be real dicks to the people we claim we love the most. And sometimes we will like to poke them. And when we're hurting, we try to hurt people. And it is not uncommon, and it's happened multiple times, for people to make idle threats to the people they're in relationships with about if this ends, I'm going to ruin you and I'm gonna go to the press and I'm gonna destroy your character.

I know those threats have been made by multiple people in some of your favorites. I think it's fucked up, but it's happened multiple times. Because they are, and again, it never happens, but it's something that is weaponized in the heat of the moment. And they're fully aware of their partner's brand and their brand. They are fully aware, knowing that Bachelor Nation is going to believe them. And in the heat of the moment, they have used that when they feel the most pain and hurt and sadness and try to scare the people they're with.

Pretty fucked up. I'm not surprised at all. Yeah. It's sad, but I'm not surprised. It's happened multiple times. Yeah, well, it's like with this show, it's so... I think that's the other thing that's interesting about Paradise is that it's not an every person for themselves. It's like there are these

alliances that exist. And so I'm curious, like, in this first episode, what of the alliances felt the most strong felt the most genuine felt like they were the most potential did you feel drawn to i mean brandon and serena getting engaged yeah seriously obviously i mean i'm obsessed with i feel like she's gonna be pregnant by the like no but like they seem like really responsible people but like oh my god like you know what they did i there's i don't care what they say and i also don't care but they were in

the bm oh my god they they were doing what caitlin and i did before i don't care what they say and i also don't care but they were in the bm oh my god they they were doing what caitlin and i did before i showed up on caitlin season what you saw between brandon and serene is two people who slid into each other's dms they've been facetiming and getting to know each other i have no problem with that because you know what they focus on each other they weren't one of these people like what most people basher do is they're like in three people's dms and they like like in three people's DMs and they like act like that's not going to like get exposed on the beach.

And they pretend it's like, oh, just like being friends. No, these two people slitting each other's DM, they've been talking, but they had never met in person. This is my, I'm like 99% certain. I'm like, I could be, I won't believe them if they say anything else.

And so this chemistry, that this energy that they were referring to, like, oh, this is real, is the anticipation of finally meeting each other in person. And I love that for them. Good for them. Because two beautiful, hot people, two sweet souls, what a perfect couple. Yeah, I think they're going to Jade and Tanner it. They're not going to be involved in really any drama. They're just going to be on a vacation together. We're probably not even going to see a ton of them. They're going to have a couple dates, and at the end, they're going to get engaged. I don't see how that doesn't happen.

That's why, did you guys pick up at the very end when they were doing the previews and everybody was breaking down and crying? And they showed Brandon breaking down, but his words were, I hate to see my friends go through this. So it wasn't even about him. It was about somebody else. And I was like, OK, they're getting engaged. Yeah.

Because there's no drama there. I love, truly, I'd be shocked if they don't. And hey, Brandon, sweet guy. And also, what a great moment for Brandon. When Joe was crying, again, this is like a quality that Brandon has that I wish I could say I would have done in the moment. And I'm sure I'm capable of doing it. I'm sure I have done it.

But when I see Brandon having a chance to meet him, I know he does this all the time. And when Joe walked up and she was upset about the Kira situation, he goes, what's wrong? And he immediately was like, do you need a hug? And he was such like a friend to Jill in that moment. And it was so like, do you need a hug? And he was such a like a friend to Jill in that moment. And it was so like, and I would love to say that I was capable of doing something like that. But I think like half the time I would and half the time I'd just be fucking awkward.

You know? I just think you'd be in your head thinking about something else very intensely. I'd be like, I don't know. Is it okay to hug her? Don't be creepy. And then I would like awkwardly like pat her on the head. You would. You so would.

Oh my God. creepy and then i would like awkwardly like pat her on the head you know oh my god well like amanda says that because like you know like amanda and ally oh by the way ally is uh still with her sister for a wedding that's why she's not with us but like you know boundaries are important they work for me like i don't know he runs a tight ship folks tight fucking shit you know like amanda will tell a joke and i'll be like not responding uh you said you abbreviated a restaurant dtf and then very quickly went as if i thought in the context of a restaurant i think you're a fucker anyways but yes i can overthink and brandon is someone who just it's just he's like empathetic and present. Empathetic, present, doesn't worry about it, and like such a great quality to have. And I really admire Brandon for that.

And speaking about empathy, we got to talk about the fact, Sinead was the one who got Lace out of the bed. Thank you very much. High character moment. How many other people, you know? And you could say, oh, well, like, no one was talking to Lace. And so like, or no one was talking to Sinead.

But like, she didn't have to do that she like empathized with someone who was struggling she certainly knew what it felt like to be ostracized and outcasted yeah but she did a lot of that to herself too i mean yes and yeah sure but like i think we're gonna be surprised he champions janae no i do i champion people who like who get a villain edit yeah who are like who are imperfect people who made mistakes who definitely made mistakes but maybe the show decided to like capitalize like when they showed when andrew i'm sorry no when michael came down they literally played prince music literally prince music and it's not a fucking accident you know what i'm saying right and how we feel about michael is like he's a literal prince

like he got literal fairy tale prince music and that matters how we feel viscerally about people and like shanae made a mistake and she had some low character moments but like i i just i truly wish sometimes for the most critical people i'd love to like build some simulation and like have them experience this fucking world and put a camera on 24 7 and and see if there are stone throwers i was so curious because you just brought up the music you know how baseball players have their walk-up song what would be your walk down song to the beach like if you could have had a song plays you entered paradise for the first time what would you have chosen call me maybe really jepson yeah fun i think it identifies my um my most uh don't give a fuck side. Okay. What would you choose, Amanda?

Oh my God. I would not be on the beach. I'm too sweaty. I am way too sweaty for the beach. I do think part of the reason though, I think Lace was so, it seems like it was kind of this vicious cycle because I feel like on this show,

both with Lace and Jill and Kira, I think we got to see a case study in like the way insecurity can impact people's response because it felt like with Lace, like I feel like she was probably not met with a lot of like warmth and she was also probably like felt self-conscious being one of the older women on the beach when it's like all these like girls in their early to mid-20s for the most part. But then she handled it pretty poorly by being like, well, this isn't like being kind of negative and being like, this is nowhere near as good as my season. And it was, I don't know. It was just a very cool thing that Sinead went out of her way to get Lace out of the bed. But then what did we make of the

Sinead or the Lace and Logan interaction? When he called her loose. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. It's the first day. Everyone's nervous. Also, how is he 26 years old? I'm sorry. He looks 36. He looks my age. I mean, you don't look your age, but I'm like, how is this guy 26 years old? We look like. You guys do look the same age.

We can like roll out. And be like high school friends. Yeah. You guys go to high school together? Yeah. I don't i think it's an awkward situation i appreciate why lace felt frustrated and upset about it um she also seemed a little sauced again when i when i defend people like lace it's not because i'm defending

their actions and not that they did everything perfect but i just when i i remember being around lace's presence and I remember trusting her. I remember trusting this is a person that I could be myself around because she was willing to be herself around me. And she was willing to like do the brave thing of, of just being herself as, as imperfect as it might be. And, and maybe the crazy thing of giving your power away to people who could just use it however they want and show it how they will. And she'll tell you to your face what she would say to a camera. The whole birthday thing, she wasn't – she's like, fuck it.

We can debate whether Lace lied or she shouldn't have lied, but she owned it. And if anyone told her, she would have said, yeah, it's not my birthday. I was just fucking around. I just, to me, I feel safer around those people. I trust those people more.

I'm excited to see her journey this season. Yeah. Hope it lasts long. Wait, Jessica, we didn't ask, what would your walk-on song be for Paradise? Well, I came up with a walk-on song for you, Nick, that i was surprised you didn't say i think this would be um really really good and i hope you find it as

funny as i do in my head right now uh is right said fred's i'm too sexy yeah i don't know i feel like you would just have fun with that i would i think I'd be too self-conscious that my critics would be like, of course you picked that song. Why do your critics talk like they have a mouthful of apples? Because. I love that. I don't know what my walk-on song would be. I need to think about it. You know what? Maybe it would be the Big Bang Theory theme song right now. Love it. Because I'm in that world. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't touch on genevieve a little bit my take on genevieve it was genevieve and

shanae that had the drama with the shrimp right yeah so when are we going to get some shrimp that's what i want to know i mean they already talked about it a little bit yeah oh that's right i didn't even i didn't even pick up on the fact when genevieve's like this is how i want to kiss someone and she was kissing oh my god i i. Completely lost on me. Sinead? Sinead. Yeah. It reminded me of Cookie Monster with cookies the way that she did that. I have to say. Just again she

owns who she is for better or worse. She does indeed. I think the Sinead and Genevieve storyline is going to be fun to watch. Listen I didn't love we had the pleasure of interviewing Genevieve a while back after Women Tell All. I was a bit critical of how Genevieve kind of... How she acted towards Shania at Tell All, despite her frustrations with Genevieve, I thought was

kind of mean to kind of say she's wearing a diaper. I thought it was kind of bully energy from her and the women, whatever. And fairness to Genevieve. I believe that Genevieve truly believes everything she says. I believe Genevieve is very authentic and very real. I don't necessarily agree with her point of view on everything, but I believe like everything that Genevieve says, she fucking believes 100% true her core. You know what I'm saying like i believe she truly thinks that shanae is there to sabotage her yeah and her i think her fears and insecurities around shanae i

think are real i don't think she's mean girling it i don't think her intentions are now i think jenna v probably has a really great heart and the best attention intentions. I think, you know, we are insecurities all can all get the best of us, but like, she is so like she is 100 all the time. I think she's going to make for some pretty great TV throughout this season. You know, when she was talking about Justin and she was like saying some pretty like, yeah, I'm, she even said, I'm like zero or 100. I'm going to be in trouble. I suspect she's going to talk about her potential. She talked about her potential with Justin this episode. I suspect we're going to hear that two or three more times. It's not going to work out with Justin for whatever reason. I don't think they're very compatible. I think they both think each other are hot. Then they started talking with each other. They didn't seem to be connecting. Yeah. Was it the NorCal? The, you know. Whatever it was.

That thing. Oh, the Narwhal? The Narwhal. Thank you. The NorCal. NorCal. Whatever. Bay Area? Yeah. Thank you. Oh, God. Now I'm like. We all make mistakes, Jess. Thank you. I am human after all. I'm sorry, everybody.

Yeah. I don't think they're on the same page. I think they're both hot people who think each other are hot. And expressive. And expressive. And expressive hot people. Super expressive. I don't think they're a connect. And I think that's going to fall through. And then Genevieve is going to have a connection, a genuine connection with another guy and genuinely be excited. but she just, another thing. It's like, I love how, I mean, it's a show, Jesse Palmer.

Fine. He literally said, fine love. Oh, go, or go home. What? I mean,

talk about like, first of all, don't not be here for the right reasons or wrong reasons or whatever. I don't know if it. Don't not be here. Be here for the right reasons or wrong reasons or whatever i don't know if i don't not be here be here for the right reasons or else kind of thing but find love or go home i know it's so serious all or nothing how can you be sincere about like your feelings and again like we lie to ourselves so like the pressure of wanting to find love being around it surrounded by people you find

physically attractive only talking about emotions. How can you make sure if you truly are in love and not having just feelings that could be a million other things but love? But no, you better know it's love or your ass is getting shipped out of Dodge. Like the contradiction is fucking insane. Well, you said you wanted more comedy this season. I thought that was pretty damn hilarious.

Yeah, I know. It was hilarious. When he was like, find love or go home. Or go home. that was pretty damn hilarious. Yeah, I know. It was hilarious. Find love or go home. Or go home. I know. Or else. Like, all right. Speaking of, by the way, I don't know if you picked up on this.

I really wanted to come prepared today. That's what I'm basically trying to say is that I was so excited to be on your podcast that I'm like, I'm watching the show over and over again, so I have all the insights. But Sally comes on this season of Paradise. Do you remember Sally? but sally comes on this season of paradise do you remember sally she was the one from clayton season engagement who was engaged was supposed to be married on the day that she comes on clayton had said to sally like i you know i would love for you to stay if you want to and then i think she was the one who took it upon herself i totally remember she's like no i got engaged like yesterday

yeah and i said i remember when Clayton offer her a rose? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I remember talking to Clayton and I said, oh, she's totally coming back on your season, right? She's going to show up. And it's like, I don't know. And then she never did.

But we hear her name and see her briefly in the preview for next. Well, it's an upcoming episode at least. But she shows up in Paradise, which I'm excited to see that story play out. I heard that producers were sad to see her go because they thought she would be excellent to television. Very expressive, very open. We'll see how that goes. Yeah. how that goes. Sally. Yeah. So the couples that we had by the end of week one were

the kisses we had were Jacob and Sinead, Brandon and Serene, Genevieve and Justin, Romeo and Jill. I feel like Sierra and Michael kissed. Did they? I think so. He commented on her glow, remember? Yeah. He was so

overcome with the glow. And I'm like, it's called sweat. Michael is nothing but a complimentary. but it's true sierra does her skin is just we got to get that routine and her smile is just like radiant oh she's got star energy i don't know if it's going to come across on the bachelor but i'm confident that sierra has star qualities that if it only is a matter of being on the right show in the right atmosphere. Like she's got star quality. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Any like kind of... Do you guys remember Brittany? Wait, I'm looking. She was the one who Anna said she's entertaining men for money. That's Brittany? Yeah. It took me a second to realize it.

Huh. Whose season was she on? She was on Matt James' season. Oh, then I'm excited to see. She looks great. She looked great. yeah it took me a second to realize it huh whose season was she on matt james this season oh well oh then i'm excited to see she she looks great she looked great i just didn't recognize her and i'm glad she gets a second opportunity i didn't recognize victoria fuller at first when she walked down i mean i guess i know victoria yeah so like but i wasn't like i was like oh yeah so i've seen her like recently but i guess for someone who maybe hasn't right because it was peter's season that she was on.

So it's been a few years. Interesting. Yeah. No, I'm more, I'm intrigued now. I didn't realize that's who that was. Yeah. I had to look it up too. Any final kind of like thoughts, predictions, hopes?

Well, I mean, Brandon and Serene are getting engaged. Yeah. That's my prediction. There's too much, so much left to uncover. Obviously, it ends with Victoria Fuller showing up. I suspect that some of the men will be drawn to her. I suspect some of the women might be intimidated by her. Here's the thing about Victoria. I've got to know her.

I consider her a friend. She's good friends with Natalie. Here's the thing about Victoria. I've got to know her. I consider her a friend. She's good friends with Natalie. I think one of the most, on Peter's season and her edit or how she portrayed herself or how she was portrayed, common misconception about Victoria Fuller. She's a girl's girl.

Women love her. Women love being friends with her. She is a girl's girl. And I think she very much came across as the opposite on Peter's season. I think she came across as the temptress, the person you wouldn't want to trust around your friends. And the women I know like love her. Like she has a ton of friends in Bachelor Nation, very loyal friends. She is a, she is a girl's girl. And I think it's going to be really interesting. I'm really curious how she comes across on Paradise. She's also very expressive by her own admission.

My favorite things about Victoria is that she will own, I mean, she'll own her crazy. I've heard her call herself that. She doesn't pretend. Again, I trust, if nothing else, I trust who she is. Yes. who she is and her willingness to show that and her willingness to still be criticized because if nothing else, I can't just not be myself. And that's what I love about Victoria. But I do think she's going to, if nothing else, create drama just by her presence. Right. Right. Do you know, by the way, why Jesse says to the women to pack your bags,

you're leaving paradise? Do you know what that is in reference to? I do. You do? I'm not going to say. It's my understanding, and I actually think it'll be shown this way. It's literally nothing. That's what I was wondering. And they just absolutely lose their mind because again everything's high stakes in that world

nothing's a big deal everything feels like the end of the world and I think it'll be shown as a hysterical moment of people just kind of losing it you don't have to say more I just was curious but that's all

I'll say about that. But I love this episode. I hope they bring in and keep more of the comedy. I thought it was fun. I hope the comedy allows people to still watch it and we can still critique

and we can point out bad behaviors but we can also just like, I think it humanizes these people a little bit more. And I hope that we're just a little less willing to be so harsh with our criticism. What I want to leave y'all with is I know we're really shipping Teddy and Andrew. Look at a screenshot I took from the big preview that they showed at the end of the Bachelorette season. I think that's NC. Wait, at the end of the Bachelorette season?

Yeah, when they showed the big Paradise preview at the end of the season. It's not Teddy. It's not Teddy. I'm pretty sure it's NC because of the highlights. NC was on. She had. When I think about her, I think about this one amazing dress she had that had neon pops. I want to say she was on...

And are we sure that's Andrew? Yes. That's definitely Andrew. That's definitely Andrew there? Who else could it be? Yeah, that's Andrew. Am I breaking your heart? No.

That might not be your Teddy. No, it's not Teddy. She's on Clayton season. I mean, I feel like that could be seven people. We obviously did the back of her head. I mean, I feel like that could be seven people. We obviously did the back of her head. I mean, it's not Teddy. Teddy has very distinct... Oh, it's Andrew.

All right. Well, we'll have to see what happens. R.I.P. Teddy and Andrew. Well, and also maybe this is like one day, although I don't know, the water location feels... Yeah, that's a nice like... Yeah, I know exactly where that is. That's on the compound. Okay. Yeah, that's a nice plunge point. Yeah, I know exactly where that is. That's on the compound. Okay.

It's in the pool. They're in the pool. Okay. The pool where? In Paradise. Vedanta? No. No, Paradise. The beach. Oh, okay. The water doesn't look as blue there as I remember. I mean, like Johnny

could be like two feet behind them too. That was the bluest water I've ever seen, I got to tell you. When I was there, that was some blue water. I miss that beach. I would go back there on vacation. Yeah, I had a good time. It was beautiful. Jessica, we talked about a lot.

We did. Before we go, please let the people know about your amazing book. If you are a fan of The Big Bang Theory, I wrote a a over 500 page oral history that took two years of my life um and the entire cast reunited for it um and all the producers and writers and even mark hamill did his first interview because he was on the show um and he's never talked about his time on the show so he did his first interview um adam nimoy who's leonard nimoy's. So he did his first interview. Adam Nimoy, who's Leonard Nimoy's son, he did an interview and spoke about his dad being on the show. But it was- How did you get all these people to do that? I mean, Jessica, where's this access that you have?

I'll tell you what, when the book was first, the idea was first presented to me by my now literary agent, I said to him up front, I will not do this without the blessing and participation of Chuck Lorre and Steve Malaro and the producers and the cast. I wasn't going to do it without them because I don't think there's really a way to do an oral history without the main players. And they were so gracious to me. Chuck Lorre did over 10 hours of Zooms. I mean, this guy has like 500 shows on the air. Yeah, he's an icon. Yeah. So he was just amazing.

He wrote the foreword for me in the form of one of his vanity cards, which he's known for at the end of all of his episodes. Jim Parsons did over 20 hours of interviews with me. His mother did a Zoom with me, which was so fascinating. And it was just so wild and amazing. And Kaylee Cuoco, who's such a huge Bachelor Nation fan, she did so many interviews. And she did interviews. She did Zooms with me, her, and Johnny Galecki because they obviously were such a power couple on the show. But they dated in real life for two years at the

start of the series. And they opened up in detail that they've never gone into before about their first kiss, how they fell in love. I was just so giddy. That's what my audience loves. Hearing these love stories about how she first tried to come on to him and how he wasn't having it. And I just was sitting there as they were sharing this and it was so heartwarming to hear these stories. I'm so grateful to every single one of these cast members who just really trusted me and went there. And that is why there is an over 500 page book of,

of really who these people are and everything behind the scenes that you did not know. So incredible. And when's it come out? October 11th. So it's available for pre-order now and Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target,

Walmart, everything. And a week after yours comes out. So I'm so grateful that you asked me to be here today. I was truly so excited. Oh, well, all your readers out there,

make sure to get to Jessica's book in the name. Once again, let them people know so they can find it. The big bang theory, the definitive inside story of the epic hit series. Awesome well pre-order jessica's book obviously order nick's book please please pre-order my book it's really good at this point it's not a pre-order if you if you pre-order it now you'll get it yeah on the release day so but i have to i just want to say one last thing like and again and i know we said this at the very top, you are one of the most genuine, authentic people I have ever gotten to know in my years in this business.

And I have truly loved every single time we've sat down. You are so kind and on top of things. And I have such respect for you. And just the little bit that I've read of the book, it's spot on. And I can't wait to really dig in. It's very gracious and kind of you to to really dig in. It's very gracious and kind of you to say so I really appreciate it.

Well, I mean it all. Thank you guys for listening. We will be back tomorrow. Billy Eichner. Woo! What a great interview. You said he delivered. Did I deliver?

Always. Of course. Well, this is my first time on the podcast. I don't know. I really wanted to like, I already said, Billy delivered. Well, consider this as your first time on the podcast. I don't know. I really wanted to like, I don't know. You said Billy delivered. Well, consider this is your first time on the show.

And Billy is an absolute, like, yeah, you were 1A, 1B with both. And Billy had a head start because, I mean, it's Billy Eichner. Right. Yeah. He's a pro's pro. Yeah. Pros. Yeah.

So Billy joins us. We talk about, obviously, his new movie, Bros, dating and relationships. He was really gracious with just being transparent with his life and dating stories. It's a lot of fun. We also get into some pop culture topics. We talk a little bit about the Don't Worry Darling drama. Can you touch on that briefly? Some texting office hours. Be sure to check out that episode.

Next week, Jason, hopefully Tino in the future. Either way. And Kelly and Peter. You need them. briefly some texting office hours be sure to check out that episode next week jason hopefully tino in the future either way uh and kelly and peter you need them they gotta come on we'll see come on guys do it for nick either way thank you guys for listening don't forget to send your questions at ask nick at cast me.com cast with a k for all things ask nick and if nothing else we'll see you tomorrow you