The Viall Files - E482 Ask Nick - Addicted to Toxic Work Situationship

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Welcome back to another juicy and exciting episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! On this show, we’re here to help with all your burning questions about dating and relationships! We bring on our first caller, who has been in a long distance relationship for a long time with her boyfriend. After it looks like they are able to move much closer and no longer have to do long distance, our caller wonders how to best transition into this new phase, being able to enjoy each other but also respect the space they might need. Our next caller finds herself stuck in a toxic work environment when a situationship starts to go astray. Having an intense  emotional relationship with someone you work with everyday, our caller feels stress when not being able to set proper boundaries both at work and in the situationship with her coworker. Our last caller struggles when her husband's friend continues to try to insert himself and befriend our caller’s family. After her mother says she’s getting DMs from this friend, our caller is unsure how to read his intentions and how to set boundaries while also potentially being supportive if need be.  “My therapist called him a drug”  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Pre-Order Nick’s Book: https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/dont-text-your-ex-happy-birthday_9781419755491/ Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Babbel: Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to http://www.BABBEL.com/viall. Babbel—Language for life. Canva: Design like a pro with Canva Pro! Right now, you can get a FREE 45-day extended trial when you go to Canva.me/VIALL. FirstLeaf: Sign up today and you’ll get your first 6 bottles for $39.95 plus free shipping. Go to http://www.TryFirstleaf.com/VIALL. Caraway: Visit http://www.Carawayhome.com/VIALL to take advantage of this limited-time offer for 10% off your next purchase. Caraway. Non-Toxic cookware made modern. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick edition. I'm your host joined by Amanda and Allie who is overseas. No, I'm your host, joined by Amanda and Allie, who is overseas. No, I'm just kidding. Last episode, I said you died. So she's back from the dead. We protested, Allie. Don't worry. Oh, my God. I guess it's my own fault for not being in studio.

Yeah. See, that's what happens when you don't show up for work. You know, fake your death. Very punishing work environment. Well, here I am. Just like Jesus, Allie has resurrected Risen Three days later baby

Blasphemy How you ladies doing? Good I feel like I haven't seen you guys in forever What's new? Well I'll tell you what's new My fucking book comes out tomorrow Don't text your ex happy birthday

It's dropping tomorrow October 4th And if you haven't pre-ordered What the fuck Truly At this point I've asked I've pleaded I've been polite And now it's just more like, truly, what the fuck? You've been listening to the show for how long? I wrote this book for you guys. No, I'm just kidding. But no, truly, I'm not kidding. Like, why? Why? Please. I'm done asking, please. Now it's just

more like, what is wrong with you? For the love of God. If you've ever liked an episode of the show, you'll love the book. I truly mean it. It is available in audio. I am narrating it. Just get both. Get the audio version and get the book as a guide. Give it to a friend. You won't regret it. I mean, obviously, I know that if you can't afford it or whatever, do your thing, but also get to. Like I said on Thursday, if I could summarize it, it is a book to help the stuck feel unstuck. Obviously for people in relationships, whether you're out there dating, whether you're struggling with fuckboys and situationships, whether you're having a hard time getting over an ex, whether you're in a relationship you're not sure if you should be in,

maybe you're in a relationship and you're having to face big decisions like taking the next step, like moving in. I'll talk about all these things I've learned, the hard way mistakes I've made. There's stories from you guys, the listeners, stories from the show, my stories, stories from friends. But truly, it is about helping people feel less stuck because it's easy for us to all get stuck. And we're often getting stuck because we're having a hard time listening to our heart versus our ego. And it's hard to know which is which sometimes. And I cover it all. And again, it's meant to be fun and not a kind of in your face. You're doing this all wrong, but like more like some tough love, but slapped with a lot of empathy on it, too. I really, really think you guys will enjoy it. And I sure hope you give it a shot. As of today, today being not the day you're listening to it. It was the number one dating book

on Amazon and new releases above the two most popular ones. Steve Harvey's Why Men Love Bitches and Act Like a Lady and Think Like a Man. And I'm truly like, what terrible titles. Keep Why Men Love Bitches off the number one list. Yeah, come on. And the reviews are it. Obviously, thank you for all the people who pre-ordered last week when we had the people who have already bought the book and reviewed it. It really means a lot.

There's like play-by-play instructions of how to set expectations and boundaries, how to define a relationship, how to get out of a situation ship, how to make a situation ship a relationship, and a bunch of other fun stuff. So truly what the fuck. Go to vilefiles.com. I bought my sister a copy. Nick signed it and I gave it to her for a wedding present and she is packing it for her honeymoon. So if she can find a purpose in reading the book, everyone can find a purpose in reading the book. There you go. Thank you, Allie. Thank you for the plug. vilefiles.com, V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. There's a link for everything to pre-order. It's the last day to pre-order and pre-orders are really important for the book. And I don't know why, but that's what they tell me. So it would mean the world if you had been thinking about buying, if you've been debating it, today is the

day to go to vilefiles.com. And there's a link for all different ways to get the book, whether it's Amazon or IndieBound, bookshop.org and IndieBound are ways to support your local bookstores. It's the same price as Amazon. You procure it the same way. It's delivered right to your door. You're just supporting independent bookstores. So we always encourage that if you can, but truly any way you go about getting it, I would greatly appreciate it. It truly means a lot. I really put everything i had in this book i actually turned out i'm as shocked as you might be as well and if you're listening to this on october 3rd before 11 59 p.m eastern you can still enter the sweepstakes where you can potentially win a

little facetime with nick a hundred dollar gift card for self-care think about it you spend 25 dollars on a book you get a hundred dollar gift card for self-care. Think about it. You spend $25 on a book, you get a $100 gift card, you're turning a profit. Approved by relationship experts like Dr. Laura Berman and a behavioral scientist like Dr. Maya Shankar, as well as bestselling author Kazzy David and Elizabeth Wagmeister, chief correspondent of Variety. They all say you should buy it. So I feel like these are people you should definitely listen to. I mean, not that I expected like my fans to like read it and tell me it sucks, but like so far, no one's been like not as good as I thought, which I'm sure someone's going to say that I'm sure, but I really think it turned out. So anyways, I'll shut up. Also this week,

we do have Jason on Going Deeper. It's an amazing episode, a lot to dive into. You will not want to miss that. A lot of unanswered questions like what happened in the fantasy suite, stuff like that. What did they talk about? Why he decided to leave his mental state? He's a really fascinating guy. I think you'll want to hear from Jason. As far as the Tino episode, I know we told you we're going to have it. The guy's working on his mental health right now. We have to respect that. He went through a lot. I promise you we will do our best to get Tino on this show and get some of those many unanswered questions answered. But for now, we do have to respect a guy who is just trying to take care of his mental health

because God knows he was put through it. And we certainly empathize with that. So check us out for Going Deeper. Certainly, we'll be recapping Paradise. LyleFalls.com. We're the book. Let's get to the course. How's it going? Good. My name is Catherine and I'm 19 years old. Hi Catherine. How can I help? So basically my question is how to transition at the end of long distance with my boyfriend. So I'll give a little bit of background. We've been dating for almost two years. We started officially dating towards the end of our senior year of high school. And at that time, we were both committed already to go to two separate states to play college sports. So we agreed like right from the get go that we didn't want to follow each other to college. Like we know we're so young. So like we wanted to do our own

separate thing. And so yeah, basically our whole relationship, we were preparing to be long distance. And then we've been long distance ever since. And it actually has been great for us. Like we grew so much as individuals and as a couple. So. So, yeah, we really enjoyed long distance, but unfortunately, we both ended up having like pretty poor experiences out of state and we both ended up transferring back to a college in our hometown. ended up transferring back to a college in our hometown. I actually, I made the decision a semester ago. So I've been here this whole year and he just decided recently this summer for completely separate reasons. Like we held true. We didn't want to just follow each other, but it just so happened like financial reasons, sports went wrong and all that stuff. So, so yeah, nothing's like really happened, but just looking for like some preventative advice

on how to transition like to being a normal couple, I guess. I don't know. Like you don't want to spend 24 seven together because that's what we're used to. Like when we were back in our hometown, we would spend every second with each other because we were preparing like, oh, I won't see you for two months. But now that we're like back together, I don't want to like I don't want to look back in six months and realize that we pushed away our friends, like only hung out with each

other. So. Well, step one is knowing that it's a priority for you not to do that. So you're already ahead of it. Yeah. Don't live with each other. Yeah, we are. Okay.

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Canva, design like a a pro it is amazing what you can do with canva pro ali and amanda uh do amazing things because there's a graphic design software out there that makes everybody look like they got a degree in graphic design like yeah it's like i the things i've been able to create the people i've been able to fool also let's talk about the templates because the templates on canva are set you up to make the most elegant, classy, whatever you need, whether it's like you made that itinerary for the bachelorette party that looked so good. I send out like community newsletters for events that I'm hosting. They make it so simple to just kind of plug in the specific details to you. If you want to play around with any colors, et cetera, you can. But the Canva

Pro account is so worth it because all of the images and graphics that you get access to, they elevate anything. Well, it's like the graphics, the templates, the features of like removing the background. Suddenly people are going to think you're like an expert at Photoshop and then you can just like customize everything. You can, I don't know, you can download it in any format you want, whether that's like stagnant and still photos or like a moving video and animation things. So all you party planners out there, your PTA moms, if you're planning a wedding, a birthday party, it's amazing what you can accomplish at home. Save a ton of money too on invites and look like you spent zillions of dollars with Canva Pro. Design like a pro with

Canva Pro. Right now you can get a free 45-day extended trial when you go to canva.me slash V-I-A-L-L. That is C-A-N-V-A dot M-E slash V-I-A-L-L for a free 45-day extended trial. That's canva.me slash V-I-A-L-L. What do you like about long distance? What do you like about long distance? I just like that it gave us our independence. Like we have a lot of trust. Like there was never issues with that. So it was just nice.

Like we would be able to go about our day-to-day lives like independently. And then at the end of the day, come back and like share our highs and lows. We would FaceTime every day, but just for like 30 minutes like just to check in so it really let us like I don't know let us have our own lives but then have our life together which is our so I guess my first question is are you 100% certain that you're both just on this same page if he were on this call he would be echoing everything you're saying right like yep like I love yeah okay great because we've had these conversations we just like we don't know where to start we don't want to set like a hard boundary like i can only see you three days a week but like how do we yeah like boundaries yeah i don't really know you at all obviously in a weird way you remind me of my brother and what i mean by that

is like i remember when my brother was going to college he was now a dentist but like he was just a very strong you know he always he wanted to be a dentist at seven. And when he went to college, instead of being like the older brother who was like, hey, man, like get your shit done and study and like, you know, just manage. I was more like, don't forget to have fun. And the reason why you remind me of my brother is that like, well, most people I would give advice for something else. My advice to you is don't forget to enjoy your boyfriend and the fact that you guys live in the same city. You know, like if it's a party for both of you to have your independence, to not alienate friends, to still have your sense of, of your own self and still chase your own individual goals and dreams, like it's going to happen, you know? So don't stress each other out or the relationship, trying to like have these kind of like rigid rules. So early on, fuck it. Maybe you guys are going to hang out every day for a couple of weeks because you missed each other. I don't know. And that would be okay. Again, you've heard me say all this all the time. Communication is everything,

you know, recognize that it's still a priority. And then after two weeks or whatever, you just check in and be like, you know what? I'm going to do this. I want to prioritize Heather and I want to go out with some friends and I'm going to be busy the next couple of days. You know, you check in and, or you don't check in. I don't know what your kind of expectations are with each other. But like, the point is like when I'm being check in like every day, I'll give you FaceTime every day. That was an expectation you guys had. Right. But I mean like, you know, there always should be an expectation of like check in periodically about like, how's the move going, you know? And like, I don't think you need these rules, just like little things,

not spending the night at each other's places all the time. What a lot of couples do, it's just like, you know, your toothbrush is at his place or vice versa. The next thing you guys didn't know, you're spending four nights a week together at each other's places. Don't do that. Say goodnight and go home

and have those kind of boundaries set. Have spending night at each other's places being Don't do that. Say goodnight and go home and have those kind of boundaries set. Have spending at each other's places being something you guys really enjoy, you know, like a special date night, something you guys make, you know, special, which quite honestly is fun and exciting that a lot of people end up, you know, taking for granted. You know, it's something we always look forward to, like, especially when we're younger and not having to ask our parents to do all these things. And then the next thing you know, you're sleeping at your boyfriend or girlfriend's houses. And then six months later, it's just like, whatevs.

It's not special anymore. So you get to kind of keep that potentially special. These kind of intimate moments and overnights and things like that can always be thought of as, let's have a date night and let's spend the night together. But most of the time, you don't, you know? But other than that, I don't think you guys are going to have to worry about it too much because if it's a priority for both of you, you guys will make it happen. The only challenge that you guys might face is if it stops being a priority for both of you. Like all of a sudden, you know, and it's possible you guys both move home. Let's say he just really enjoys being around you. The good news is you guys are moving home in places you

both have friends yes yeah yeah for sure he's like he's coming to the school where i've been so a lot of my friends that i've made there like are his friends too so we will that was like another one of my questions is like our friend groups like how smart is it to merge i think it's fine again it comes up to you like he if it. Again, if it's a priority for him, I guess he's going to want to make his own friends too. That might take some time. But he's 19. Yeah, he'll make friends.

He does not have a problem with that. Yeah, and most 19-year-old guys like spending time with their guy friends. So I feel like he's going to make some guy friends and he might start making some of those friends through your friends, but eventually he'll make his own friends that there's some like overlap, but whether you're friends with them or not, he's still going to want to hang out with the boys, so to speak.

Yeah. And that'll be for, I'm like, I'm fine with having the same friend group, having your own friends. Yeah. Yeah. My biggest advice to you is don like, I'm fine with having the same friend group, having your own friends. Yeah. Yeah. My biggest advice to you is don't make it more of a problem than it needs to be. And try to carry over like the independence you had that was forced and still have that in relationship.

And if you guys, if it's still a priority, you guys will make it happen. Yeah, for sure. I think it'll definitely naturally get there. I just don't want to look back and regret anything. Like again,

that's not even a problem now, but it could be a problem if, let's say, he doesn't make friends fast enough or you're like, oh, I'm going to go hang out with the girls. And he's like, oh, but I thought we were hanging out. Well, then that's a sign to check in and just be like, oh, okay, we can hang out, but I just want to make sure we're still prioritizing, but also have empathy early on that he might feel lonely or not have friends, prioritizing, but also have empathy early on that he might feel lonely or not have friends, but I wouldn't worry about this all that much. Especially while he's transitioning home, just enjoy him. Enjoy having him hang out with your friends. Have some fun. And then maybe promise each other to check in a month from now once he gets settled in that you're still focused

on maintaining this independence. And in the meantime, those little things like not moving in, not spending every night together, or maybe only saying like we're only spending one night a week together boom i think that little thing can go a long way you know yeah i also had a question like another thing we did when we were long distance was like texting like we would text throughout our days and we would talk at night and i've already noticed like we still do text a lot just because it's natural but i almost feel like we don't have to since we are seeing each other. So what do you and Natalie do? Do you guys text throughout the day?

I don't know. Yeah, sure. Exactly. Yeah. You will still text because he's going to have his life. I mean, that's the thing. I think you're worrying about it a little too much because Natalie's also in LA. I'm at work.

She's at work. She's doing her thing. There might be something that comes up where I want to ask her a question or maybe I'm thinking, you know, you just check in. It's going to slightly change because before you were doing it, not because you were a part of each other's day, but you were just doing it to like make the other person feel included. So you might do less of that. I wouldn't overthink it. Let it work itself out organically. Only address the problem if you realize, hey, I think this is becoming a problem and that problem

would be one of you is like texting a lot and the other person is getting annoyed and then if if one person's getting annoyed by the expectation the other person has then you sit down and say all right like how do we how do we address this like clearly you're frustrated with the fact that i'm doing x y or z or vice versa how do we find that common ground? But I know he'll be open to those conversations too. No, I mean, I love that you're trying to get ahead of it. I love that you're trying to like be all like responsible about it, but don't forget that you are only 19. It's still an early relationship. You're not going to be able to prevent every problem that is going to happen. Sometimes you just have to go about it. A problem's going to come up and then you have to figure out

how you address that problem. That's good advice. For sure. I'm definitely a planner. Sometimes trying to get ahead of a problem creates the problem. All right? Sure. Well, congrats on being able

to spend more time with your boyfriend. Yeah, I'm so excited. Yeah, just enjoy it. My biggest advice, just enjoy it. Have some fun. Set some minor boundaries. And then if things come up,

communicate, talk through it, empathize with one another, and you'll figure it out. Perfect. All right. That's great. All right. Take care. Thank you. You too. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Good. My name is Lauren and I am 29. How can I help Lauren? So I am in a really, I would honestly just say toxic work situation ship. I've been at this job for about a year now and I got close with this guy. His relationship has been on and off and my sister has essentially called me his emotional flubber. So he, he is, he has a girlfriend or on and off yes and he and i were just getting close like i just like i've always had guy friends so i didn't see or like think too much of it but she

was like essentially he's getting all his emotional needs from me and all his physical needs from the girlfriend um then we started getting a little flirty and i was like okay i don't like the girlfriend but like this is disrespectful. Like I can't do this. And then they break up a week later and we're inseparable. So we're hanging out all the time. Yeah. And when you say you don't like the girlfriend, have you ever met the girlfriend?

Yes. And she's very, let's see, aggressive with me. Aggressive how? Like, again, I like, I have guy friends. So if I try to like, Hey, finish my drink for me, she'd grab from him and be like, hand it back. Like, absolutely not. Or just like basically tell him can't talk to me. Um, and I only hear bad things from him. Right. So like, do you have any empathy for her? I do now. Okay. A hundred percent. Why? for her? I do now. Okay. A hundred percent. Why? Um, knowing them now and knowing him a little bit better, I can see him just having a flurry of personality. Like essentially my mom even called me the other woman without the, like the physical part of it. Okay. Right. So I tried distance

myself. They broke up, we get closer and then it's, well, I don't know if i want to be back with her i'm still trying to get over her i really want to be with you now he said this correct that he wants to be with you and what'd you say like where are you with this i tried to i wanted to keep it as platonic as possible like i could i was knew i could easily see myself getting there but i didn't want to and then finally when he was like i like you, I just need to figure out my own stuff. I like, I let myself get there. And essentially I've been in this like toxic back and forth with him for the last like four months. Interesting. Okay. How can I say this? I guess I don't totally believe you.

I mean, I believe, I believe what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? I believe that you believe it and maybe I'm not hearing you right, but it's a pretty common thing, right? Because you're saying, well, I was trying to keep it totally platonic, but I could see myself getting there. And I feel like our feelings, they're not that nuanced, I guess is what I'm saying.

I think we either deep down like someone or we don't. Oh no, I for sure deep down like him. So I think I'm in love with him at this point. Great. So yeah, there we go. I want to get to that truth, like how you really feel about the situation and about him. Okay. So you feel love for him. Yeah, 100%. Okay, 100%. And what do you mean? I'm sure you've heard me challenge that statement with other people in terms of, I don't doubt you care about him. And I don't doubt you feel emotions and excitement. And I don't doubt you've really bonded and shared some intimate details. But I would love for you to receive a lot more than I can assume you're getting in this relationship to feel love towards

him. It's a lot of the back and forth, right? So like there's a, I really find him attractive in the things that he like wants for his future and wants for his future family and how he kind of handles himself at work. Um, the relationship he's had with me and it's not that, you know, weird friends with, then it became more,

it was, you know, I'm going through my own crap and he has pushed me to go to therapy. He's pushed me to, you know, when he put me in my place, when I need to be put in my place. And I think we just have that relationship and that friendship where we can do that with one another. And I really respect that about him. But to that point, he knows he can always pull me back when he needs me. So he's told me he loves me. He told me he wants, you know, I've showed him things that he didn't know. He wanted a relationship. Has he ever told you he loves you while having a girlfriend?

No, it's always been when they broke up. And then what do you say? I didn't say it back until he told me that one night you were out drinking and he told me that he didn't see himself being with me any longer with you yep and then the next day he says well all that stuff well I saw myself being with you and you showed me things I never thought I needed or I wanted um I love you I don't see you not being in my life so essentially we're at the point where I try to pull away and he pulls me right back in. And it's not like I can just ghost him and never talk to him again. Like we share a wall at work. We're constantly with each other. It's where is,

where is he? Lauren knows where he is. Like it's everyone at work knows how close we are. It's, I can't get away. And I know at this point I need to. Have you accepted that it's truly done? Like, I guess, what's your question? Are we trying to suss out this situation? Are you looking for advice on how to help distance yourself? Like what, what's your goal as it stands right now? I mean, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't like hope. Like I, I know I deserve better. Like if I was in the ex's position, like I would hate me too. I totally understand the like, and I, if I were with him, I wouldn't want him to be the flirty way he was with other girls.

Like I know I deserve better, but at the same time, we've told each other we're like, we're each other's people. Like we're best friends. We're never leaving each other's lives, but I still see him in that way not just as a friend and I think everyone in my life has told me I need to distance myself so I just don't know how so I guess that's it like how do I distance myself in an impossible situation or what I feel it is it's's a hard situation. It's not impossible. And I think that's kind of, that's the first step as I think you need to just start changing what you say to your mom and your sister and more importantly yourself is to, you know, stop saying things to yourself like he's my person. This is impossible. Again, like say what is actually true. Like there's things I like about

him. You know, he's made me feel certain ways that I want to feel in a relationship. You know, like, because that's more when you say it like that, well, then that's that doesn't sound so hard to replace or definitive. You know, I know when it comes to like, when we find our one and only, at least some people, not me, but like some people like to like, you know, you want to hype it up, right? You know, you're in a relationship and like, yeah, I finally found my person. They're perfect. We're in love. This is meant to be. And that's great. And if you're in a committed relationship and you're talking about marriage and engagement, and if you are engaged, and certainly if you're married, gas your relationship up, you know? Say all the great things that people want to say about

relationships if we're in a relationship. But when you're not in a relationship, when you're in a situation or when you're breaking up with someone, we do this weird thing where we still gas up the other person and the situation and we kind of beat ourselves up and make ourselves feel even worse about a situation that we can't have, right? So I think you just got to be very careful what you tell to yourself about this guy in this relationship. And like I said, saying that he made you feel certain ways that you want to replicate in the future, that can allow you to be sad for what you're not having, right? But also optimistic that you can find it with someone else because you can. You can find a guy who encourages you to get therapy because what

are you describing, right? You're describing a guy who you've gotten to know long enough, right? That you've been able to share, I'm guessing, some insecurities or vulnerabilities with this guy and he's listened. He's not made you feel judged and then has challenged you at times when you felt like you needed to be challenged. Maybe I get that attraction. I want that in my relationships, right? A lot of people do, but you can definitely find it with other people. Right now, you've found it with him, but he's definitely not the only one. And then you want to start thinking about the things that you don't have with him. Or you want to think about the fact that like, well, he is a

pretty flirty guy. And boy, if I were in a relationship with him or anyone else, and imagine being in a relationship with him, and he has a different job and someone who, you know, who is an attractive person with blonde hair, who's like, you know, you date someone and all of a sudden you're like, hey, you work with someone who's kind of like my, you know, they kind of, they don't look like me, but boy, they sure seem like your type. Would you trust him? Would you trust if you were in a relationship with him and he got a different job or maybe joined an after-school program or a co-ed league that you weren't involved in? And then he started hanging out with someone on a regular basis and started talking about

his friend, Emily, that he really got to know. How would that make you feel? Because that's who he is. He might be the person who is doing all these things for you, but he's also the person who is doing these things with you and saying these things to you with a girlfriend. And I know he said he loved you when he didn't have a girlfriend, but it sounds like it's gotten pretty messy. And for a guy who's going flip-flopping back and forth, I'm certain that she has a very different version of their timeline. I completely agree. Yeah. No, I know for sure. I

have so much more sympathy these last six months for her than I have, you know, the prior six when they were really toxic. I guess I just, like, I, when I pushed him to ask why he didn't want, didn't see us being in a relationship anymore, it I'm too important to him to lose that's bullshit yeah no I I agree because I was in the same thing five years ago and I was like well I did the same thing and then I was in a relationship for five years so I don't see that but and then I just am always there for him when he needs me like I'm too available and I hate that because but I to be, and I can't not want to be that person for him. I think that's where I'm really struggling. Yeah. And then where you're going to struggle some more is that you're going to have to mourn the loss of a friendship that you enjoyed. Because that's the truth.

How do I do that when I see him every day? It's going to be tougher for sure. Yeah, for sure. But I think you just really have to see him differently. All right. Wine. We all love it. You love it. We like watching TV, like your favorite reality TV shows and drinking it. But the thing about wine sometimes is that we don't really know what we're drinking. I know that's been my experience, but not until First Leaf. First Leaf not only makes it convenient, but you actually start getting good quality wines and wines that they teach you a little bit about. Forget driving to the wine shop. Forget shopping by the label,

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different situation altogether. But obviously I was emotionally invested when I take this big risk to like take another leave of absence from my job and like chase this girl that I had this like, you know, three or four week love affair via FaceTime with. And while very different in those four weeks or so, we shared a ton and we were really connected and bonded. And then I took this big risk to go on this show. And I was just like, hey, I'm like, I'm here for you. So like, don't fuck with me, please. You know, like send me home if like, if you like someone else.

And then a lot of shit happened while filming. All that led up to me being like pretty confident the day of, right? And then she chose another guy, right? And now granted, like hindsight 2020, I'm really thankful that how things played out. But in the moment, I was really upset. I was really angry at her. I was felt heartbroken. I felt sad. And I was mourning the loss of all these things we shared and that she was in this relationship. And I didn't even have the ability to like talk to her about anything. I just said to like, go away, you know, and that was hard.

But that being said, I just remember feeling like it was that much easier for me to get over because quite honestly, I was just like, who does that? At the time, I felt like she was incredibly selfish and only considered her feelings as the bachelorette and that I was just kind of like a pawn in her love story. And I didn't feel like she was very honest with me. I felt like she was cavalier with my feelings, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And again, I got over it and I'm fine and all grateful, but like that really helped me get over her pretty fast. I was kind of like, I don't want to date someone like that. I don't want to date someone who's, I don't know if I could trust her. And I kind of just had to see her a different way, even though I was still feeling heartbreak and loss. And I was still feeling love at the time for her.

I had to to tell myself, I'm like, nah, I don't want to date someone like that. And I meant it too. And I really started seeing her in a different light. It didn't make everything go away in that moment. But I really, I could honestly start listing off the things I didn't appreciate that she did, how she handled situations, how I'm like, wow, that was really fucking reckless with my heart. There's no way in that moment, based on what she did and how she said it and what I said to her, there's no way she can convince me, now that I'm looking at it, that she actually really gave any shits about my feelings. People always say, I feel bad. They don't feel bad. They feel bad that they feel like the bad guy, but they don't feel bad.

Like they actually cared about your feelings in the moment. Right? Like it's fine. Yeah. We all need to apologize from time to time because sometimes we can be inconsiderate and we can be selfish. Right? And when we recognize that we say, Hey, I'm sorry for being selfish.

I'm sorry for being inconsiderate. And if it's someone that we call a friend or a lover or family, it's really important to mean I'm sorry and to learn from that mistake and replicate that mistake because are you really sorry? Do you really care about me? Did you really learn from this selfless, selfish moment or this inconsiderate moment? Because you seem to do it over and over and over. And when they do it over and over, you have to start accepting that's who they are. And then that's how they're going to treat you in a relationship. And when you see it that way,

I think it makes it a lot clearer that even though it does make it sad that you lost what you had and it doesn't make it immediately go away, like I said, but like you can kind of be like, I don't know if I really wanna be in a relationship with this person. I enjoyed the friendship that we had, but the truth is it was more than a friendship. It was

I had feelings and I have other friends. And like I've said many times before, you just start seeing it as, all right, well, I did like this. I want to replicate this. I don't want to replicate that. And you start using it as a lesson for looking for people in the future. As far as your immediate problem, I think you just really have to challenge yourself to see him differently, to almost kind of really just go back in your memory and think about all the times that he said these very cavalier things to you about his feelings and what it meant. And while I'm sure it felt good to hear in the moment, recognize that he was being very

selfish when he said that. He was being very reactive. He was feeling a sense of loss from this relationship that he had. And he was projecting and overcompensating with you. And he was using you. And I'm not to say that doesn't care about you. And I'm sure he thinks you're special. But in that moment, it was more important to him to feel that validation from you. And so he said this, and he said it because he wanted to hear something back. He wanted you to make him feel important, special, and needed and loved because he wasn't getting it somewhere else. And it wasn't just about you. It was about him. It was about his feelings and his needs. And that's a selfish

person. And that's someone who is going to continue to be selfish in any relationship that he's in until he actually realizes how he affected other people's lives. And my guess is that's going to be after he loses both of you. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just don't know how to distance myself because we work in a job that we work a lot of hours hours 14 plus hours every other week one-on-one with him like are you like on a team together no but we work closely together and then can you switch desks how big is your company you have like an hr we have like there's 40 of us

okay so not very big and like no yeah no desks uh like that's it it's just and then we all hang outside of work so we're all from different areas. None of us really have friends outside of work because we work 24 seven. So like we go out together and we do things together. Or fortunately I'm a dumb ass and like spent the weekend just with him last weekend. And just like when it's just the two of us, I really value our friendship. But then like my therapist called him a drug. He was like, you experienced

those super high highs, but remember those crazy lows that come with it. Yeah. It's like he's a sour patch kid that I always referred to. It is an addiction. And that's the hard part. You're going to have to figure out how to say no. That's the hard part. Like there's no, you do work with him. You can't just dissonant yourself. So when he comes back into your life, and he's going to, when he feels lonely and bored and sad and he's not getting something from her, he will come back to you because that's his pattern. You're just going to have to find the strength to say no. You're going to have to choose yourself first. And now you have to see it in those terms. You have to see it as every time I say yes to him, I'm hurting myself.

The same way an addict might have to say, like, every time I take a drink of this or I shoot this up, I'm killing myself, you know, slowly. Is that a conversation worth, like, I guess I'm always trying to, like, think of a conversation to have with him. No, it's a conversation you have to have with yourself. I think you need to stop talking to him. He is never going to say to you, you're right, it's a conversation you have to have with yourself. I think you need to stop talking to him. He is never going to say to you, you're right, I'm not good for you. And if he does, he doesn't really mean it. He's going to try to make himself feel guilty. And if he says

that to you, it's because he wants you to say, no, you're not, you're not a bad guy. You're a good guy. It's very manipulative. I don't think he's meaning to be manipulative, but people can be manipulative without even trying. I think you need to like give yourself some tough love. I think you need to go to your sister and your mom and your friends and ask them to hold you accountable and to check in on you and make sure that you're still saying no. And you have to like, you know, little things, try to move desks if you can. I don't know if that's possible. You know, like I'm not going to hang out with them one-on-one. When you're in group settings, like don't be rude, but avoid him. And if he, if he corners you and asks why, just say like, listen, if you ever say anything to him, it's just like, I need you to respect the fact that I did care about you. Use past tense. Like you were in a relationship, you went back and forth. I don't want to get into it with you. Like it is what it is, but I just want my space from you. I don't want to be your friend anymore. I want to move on from this. We work together. I need you to be professional. And I think you say it very

cold like that. And then scare him a little bit. Scare him that he needs to start thinking about his work etiquette and his professionalism at the office place. He needs to respect your boundaries as a coworker. And you say it in a way that says, I don't want this anymore. I need you to be professional and respect me. And that's all I need to say. And you don't accuse him of anything. You're not mean. And you really got to challenge yourself to not let him get you emotional or worked up. This might be something you want to practice in the mirror. get you, you know, emotional or worked up, you know, like practice might be something you want to practice in the mirror because yeah, you're in a tough situation for sure. And I don't know how to say no to sugar. So like, I just go to the grocery store and I just

like stay focused and I'm like, I don't buy anything. But if it's like someone brings it over, I'm like, fuck, I'm going to eat this, you know, like it's really hard. And, and like, we just had a party and there was just a bunch of sugar. And so instead of like, you know, saving it and telling myself, I'm going to like not eat it. I just threw it all away. I know myself. And I know that like, if I put it in the pantry, I'm going to fucking eat this shit, you know, and I'm going to feel worse. So I have to throw it away now. And so what you just have to start figuring out ways that like, you know, yourself, make it easy for me to say no to him. How can I make it easy to say no to him? When, like, if I just avoid the situation, if that means early on, you know,

not showing up to certain events for a period of time, just to like ease yourself and then do that, it's okay to take a break. Don't, you know, don't force it. You know, like you're not proving yourself. You're not proving anything to yourself. You're like, I can show up and I can be fine. And maybe you won't be fine for a couple of times. And maybe you take a break and just not show up and make an excuse like you have something else going on. And then try it out. See if you can be in the same room with him and act indifferent and look at him and tell yourself, that guy's not very faithful to the people he says he loves the most. That guy's not very selfless to the people he says he loves the most. That guy's not very selfless to the people he says he loves the most.

I honestly don't know if I could trust someone like him because at the end of the day, while he wants to think of himself as trustworthy, when he's feeling needy, he's an incredibly selfish person. And that's the truth about him. And like, it doesn't mean he's a bad guy and I'm sure eventually he'll figure it out. That's who he is right now.

And he's not gonna change for you or her. And maybe he needs therapy, you know, and if he's getting therapy, maybe he needs a more honest therapist, you know, but like he's definitely an imperfect person with a lot of work to do it himself. And you need to see him in that light. Yeah. I think it's easy to put on like the rose colored glasses and focus on when he makes me feel good and like those sort of things. But I need to focus on the bad to make it easier to get over, I think. When Caitlin broke up with me, I had two choices, right? I could sit there and tell myself that she was making the wrong decision, that what about all these things that happened between us, all the things she said to me, all the things she shared, all these moments. And I could have obsessed over these moments. Right. Now, granted, I was, I had the benefit of not being able to see her

and have her not my life, which helped. And you don't have that. But I chose in that moment to say, no, wait, like that was all kind of fucked up. And she made these choices. And while I don't think she's a bad person, I don't think she's the type of person I quite frankly thought she was, or want to be in a relationship with. And that made it a lot easier to get over. It didn't happen overnight, but I just kept reminding myself anytime I had a moment of weakness, I was like, wait, what am I missing? That's not who I want. That's not someone I want to trust with my heart. And that's who she is. And we are so quick to gas these people up because they do a handful of nice things. Anytime someone we like who makes us feel good, we give them all the praise and recognition

for making us feel good. And when people disappoint us or hurt our feelings or make us feel confused and weak and sad, we're so quick to make excuses for them. So stop making excuses for him. Start giving him the same recognition for his fault that you give for his successes. And if you focus on that, I think it'll help you see him in a very different light. Yeah, I agree. No more excuses.

Stop saying that you love him. And you can say, he made me feel loved. He made me feel seen. That's okay to say because that can be replicated. When you say to yourself, oh, but I loved him and now I can't have him, your subconscious is telling yourself that he's the only person that can do this. And if you can't figure out how to get him in your life, then you will never feel these feelings anymore. And that's just not true. You're right. Yeah. Focus on the negative. I think that'll make it. I'm just focused on the positive and trying to pretend I don't have hope, but I do. I know I have hope and I just, I don't need that because I know I deserve better in the end.

Yeah. And it's going to take some time. You're going to have your bad days. This is going to be hard. Take it easy on yourself. And if you don't feel up to like telling yourself no, then don't show up. It like, I don't have the willpower to just have the candy in the pantry and say like, because then I have to say no every five minutes. You know, when I get the munchies, I'm just like, ah, like it's, you know, so like, I don't buy it. So you have to figure out how to figure out how early on, put yourself in situations

that don't require you to constantly have to tell yourself no. Work, it's going to be harder. But outside of work, you cannot be as available to the group for a while. And just be busy and make up some fucking lies. And maybe join a class. Maybe get busy with other things and then give the impression that you're super busy. But he's going to fight for you. He's going to fight for this friendship or whatever this is. He's going to keep fighting and it's going to be hard because you're going to have to really say no to him. And if I were you, if he truly ever broke up with his girlfriend forever and fought for you, I'd be very, very hesitant about getting what you think you want right now because I wouldn't trust him. Yeah. At the end of the day, I still think I deserve better.

When I do sit down and think about it, I'm i'm like anything if he said today he wants to be with me i would not like these feelings of distrust like just everything would still be there so yeah i know at the end that like we don't need to be together i just can't seem to get him out of my life it is amazing what people can convince themselves of that shows a lack of character because of how they feel you know because he can be like well i have feelings for her and so like it can't be wrong to like of that shows a lack of character because of how they feel, you know? I hate you 100%. Because he can be like, well, I have feelings for her. And so like, it can't be wrong to like talk about this, you know? I'm not really talking about it, but he's been emotionally cheating on his girlfriend

with you for like God knows how long, right? Yeah. I mean, think about it. Think of some of these really intimate moments that made you feel loved by him. And imagine like being her, you know? And he's not going to stop doing that because he's convinced himself it's not cheating it's not wrong it's okay why because i care and how could that be wrong i have feelings he's even made comments like if she i was like hey if you guys are good you're back together like where does that put us he's like i've told her that if she doesn't told

like doesn't want you in my life then i'm not going to be with her like she's out before you're out it's all manipulative yeah if that's true it's fucked up and it's probably a lie yeah imagine being in a relationship with this guy who says i you can only be with me if you accept this quote-unquote friendship in which i've been completely inappropriate with. And I made her feel like I got her to want to be with me. I made her fall in love with me, you know? And that's so fucked up. And like, you should see that as manipulative and fucked up and so selfish of him. And that's the person that you in the past were trying to be with. And you said you loved.

You felt love. And again, like I've always said, be excited that you felt love and you felt these feelings. But try to replicate it with someone who also doesn't come with all this other bullshit. Exactly. And I don't want to be put in the position that she is in. Yeah. And feel good that you found someone who is having a hard time letting you go, who did fall for you, who had feelings for you. Like, yeah, you still got it.

You know, like clearly, you know, you can be loved by people. So try to pull all the good from the situation and then be honest with yourself about the role you played and the shit that was bullshit and the things that you shouldn't accept and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And don't make excuses for his bad choices or what you told yourself was okay because it felt good in the moment. Be honest with yourself. And that should hopefully help you see him in a different light so that when you have to see him in person, you can kind of go, you're not that great of a guy. Yeah, definitely. You need to focus on those parts and not the little parts that you want to focus on that make you feel good. Because at the end of the day, that's not worth it. It sounds like he's very good at saying things that make

you feel loved and validated. And you're quite honestly confusing that validation with love. And listen, in a relationship, it's important for us to feel validation from the people we love. But if we get validation from people who can't back up their validation because they are in other relationships say or you know they're not willing to commit then then they're just words then it's manipulation then it's like something they're saying to like get you to stick around people need to be able to back up their validation and with their actions and if they can't then it's manipulation i think i mean i just came up with that so maybe some doctor's like i don't know

but like i'm pretty sure i nailed it i don't know sounds right because then you're just fucking saying it because you're you're saying it hoping to get a reaction you know he's saying this to you because right i'm guessing if you go back and play the tape he's always saying this when you're frustrated or have one foot out the door or when you're trying to draw a boundary that's when he comes up with all these things yeah yeah no Yeah. No, it is when I, right when I pull away, he kind of knows it. And it's like, well, you know, you mean the world to me or every bit of the world to me. I need you in my life. That said, if he ever wants to come with, uh, on the show with you, I'd love to have you both. Oh, that would be interesting. So to say, if you, you know, if he ever comes back in your

life and he begs, say, okay, I'll consider it, but you have to do this. It'll be an anonymous. We'd love to have you. Perfect. I'd love to do that, actually. Well, I appreciate you. I know I need to just stick to my gut. Yeah, man. I get it. Just take it easy on yourself. Truly, ask your mom and your sister and your friends for some tough love. Ask them to hold you accountable because you need a support system here. It's not easy to do on your own alone. And it's extra hard that you have to work with him. And that's, it's a tough situation, but like you can get over this. You just have to really choose yourself first. You have to like see him as toxic. You have to see him as like, you know, the same way an addict would a drug that if they digest or,

you know, shoot up would kill them slowly. And at least when you, if you do do that, then be honest with yourself. You know, it's just like, it reminds me of a chapter in my book. And I kind of talk about the same thing, you know, the easy part with drugs and candy and all these things, it's just like, you kind of like the average person we know. It's just like, all right, I'm choosing. All right, fine. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to eat this. I know I was literally talking to my cousin at the party and we were just like, we're both related. We're like sugar addicts. And we're just like, you know, we're going to be paying for this tomorrow. But at least we knew we made that choice, you know, and sometimes with exes or

partners or situationships, we convince ourselves that like, we're going to feel good, you know, and this is going to make her feel better. So if you're going to hang out with him, and I don't think you should, but at least if you're going to, if you're going to like, you know, do anything with him, at least have the self-awareness and at least the honesty with yourself that if you do, you're doing it with the cost, the cost of knowing that I'm going to pay for this tomorrow, but whatever, at least you're seeing it as an honest thing, something that's not good for you. But stop convincing yourself that he's like, you know, kale, you know, or whatever it is that you, you know, he's not a protein shake. He's not a cleanse. He's toxic. And anytime you digest him, you're going to feel worse afterwards. You will have a hangover.

Yeah. I guess in those moments, I try to tell myself that's not going to happen, or this is the last time. I'm always, this is the last time person, but that needs to actually just actually be true. Pre-order my book. You could do that. That'll help. All right. Get on it right now. I promise it'll help your situation.

Before I step into a meeting with him in 10 minutes. All right. Tell him I said fuck off. All right. I'll do that. All right. Take care. Thanks, Nick.

All right. Bye-bye. Bye. How's it going? Hi. My name is zoe i'm 25 years old um i'm calling today about a situation with a friend of mine okay we'll call him ryan okay um i met him through my husband they went to college together and they've been best friends for about eight years except for they had a period of about two years where they weren't talking to each other. It wasn't so much a falling out as it was like not discussed.

Like my husband thought, oh, he must be mad at me. And Brian thought, oh, he must not like me anymore. It was just kind of something like that. But ever since they kind of talked things out, we've been we've all been really close since then. We used to live really close to Ryan and we would hang out multiple times a week. And him and my husband, John would like talk on the phone and text and hang out all the time when we lived there. And he's a really great friend. He's really fun to be around, but he also has the kind of personality that's like can be really draining. And like,

if he's in a bad mood, then everyone else is going to suffer. Um, so he can kind of take over things. He wants things to be his way. So that can be kind of hard to work with sometimes. Um, last year I had invited him to a like a family function so he met my parents and

my siblings and um ever since my wedding when he first met them um just briefly he's always thought that my sister was really cool like my older. And he's like always wanted to know more about her, et cetera. So when he met her, things just kind of started where when I would hang out with him, he would be like, oh, we should Snapchat your sister. We should send her a video. I want to tell her about this. And he would do the same thing with my mom. He would just like always be trying to like make that connection, which I thought was

kind of strange. It made you kind of almost uncomfortable yeah it did because like when when I introduced him to my family again last year it seemed like he was kind of putting on a show like he was trying to be super charming like super friendly more so than usual so I was kind of like what like what are you trying to do here like we're really good friends you don't need to put on a show like this is just my family kind of situation true and there have been instances in the past that I've noticed with other friends in their group where he's met their family and he said things like oh they couldn't get enough of me or like I hang out with so-and-so's friend like brother more than i even hang out with them like i don't know it just seemed like he was trying to like be closer

be closer to us by like really like becoming part of the family in a way sure okay um we also we moved a couple months ago so we're about an hour away from him now. So I feel like this is coming at a time where, like, we don't hang out as much anymore. We don't talk as often. And he's, like, trying to, like, stick in the friendship. Like, you're, like, I'm part of your family now. You can't abandon me. So anyway, the main problem is that about two weeks ago, I posted a picture of me and my mom and my sisters and he followed them and messaged both my mom and my sister he didn't tell me but my sister and my

mom told me and neither of them really have a problem with him they they think he's really nice and friendly but when they told me what he had messaged them it like made me really uncomfortable what do you say um uh to my mom he he knows that she's really into like crafting and so he said something like would love to come hang out and do some crafts and just like something like that and to my sister i had told him that she likes this specific TV show. And at the time when I told him that, he was like, oh, I can't stand that show. It's the worst. But he messaged my sister and said, hey, I hear you like this show.

I would love to watch it together sometime. And something like that. Just kind of reaching out. I think you're great. That kind of stuff. So I was just, I was feeling uncomfortable about it because I was like why are you trying to like be friends with them if it means like like it's not even a show you like why do you want to watch it with my sister and like um so it's made me uncomfortable I I don't I just don't feel like

it's him genuinely wanting to be friends with them i feel like it's kind of him trying to like force the friendship in a way okay yeah so basically i haven't talked to him about it um i feel like it's been adding up and ever since he messaged them i just i've been wanting to figure out like how do I establish a boundary with him where like I want to stay friends but I don't really want him to be like in my family so the way I'm hearing this story I think the big question to me is is like like what is really your level of discomfort and how much do you trust or not trust this person because from what I'm hearing it doesn't sound all that nuts i also understand why it might feel a little weird or why you might be uncomfortable like everyone's different every

friendship's different etc etc and like you're not worried about this friend like trying to date your sister or anything like that no okay you know there's a lot of people who like take great pride in being liked by family how old is this friend um he's 30 okay so yeah i suspected he'd be older and why the reason why i asked is like you said he has a big personality a strong personality yeah he does usually when you get older like in your eight in your teens 20s you're not super self-aware yet you know you kind of think everyone else who doesn't get you, it's their problem kind of thing. But as you get older, you have a few falling outs, getting some tiffs with some friends, maybe have a breakup or two. And you start hearing some consistent feedback about how people perceive you. Part of being adult is figuring out that

balance between what is fair criticism that maybe I could try to work on and what is just like, this is who I am and I need to start hanging out with people who love and accept me for who I am and finding that balance, right? That's kind of being an adult, right? And so my guess is he senses this about himself. He hasn't really totally faced it, right?

But his way of going about protecting his friendships and relationships is to like, you know, insert himself and become close with your mom and your sister so that when he feels distant from you and your husband, he still doesn't feel lost, right? It doesn't sound Machiavellian or like sinister. It just sounds a bit disingenuous and a little manipulative. And my guess is you feel that and you just don't like that. And so you kind of have two choices as I see it. Like it's a tough situation because like it's a tough conversation to have. Because how do you have this conversation? Like he's not really doing anything wrong, but you're kind of like,

why the fuck are you doing this? And I could see how he could get really sensitive and defensive about the fact of like, do you not, like, what am I doing wrong? You have two choices. You cannot say anything because you ultimately don't think he's a danger to anyone. You're just kind of annoyed by him. And you can just trust your sister and your mom

to enforce their own boundaries. And they don't have to say yes to movie night and they don't have to do crafts with him they can just not respond like oh you know i'm sure sometime and just you know avoid them yeah that's not that hard or if you don't think that's possible or if you think a conversation is needed then it's's going to be an awkward conversation. Yeah. You know, it is. And I think you got to ask yourself, is it worth it? You know, the question is, is like,

if you try to have empathy for him, is it really that big of a deal to let him just have this, so to speak? Is he really doing anything wrong, even though you know he's kind of being a little insincere? Yeah, I've thought about that too. Like, is it really the worst thing for him to be friends

with my family um i think it's more just like insecurities in me about like like you said how i feel about it if i feel like it's genuine or not it just kind of it just kind of bugs you because you see through it yeah i get it i totally get it and now you just have to you know and i think empathy will give you the answer. If you try to be really empathetic and understand why he's doing this, if you're still bothered by it after the fact, then maybe you say something. If you, if at the end of the day, you're just like, yeah, it's annoying, but like, honestly, I know why he's doing it. He's doing it because of this. And while I'm annoyed that I wish he would handle things differently, he's not hurting anyone and reach out to him more. Maybe he misses you guys. Invite him out. You know what I'm saying?

Because this is one of those things where you get annoyed by him. You and your husband talk about it so that you just kind of avoid reaching out to him because you're just like, I'm just going to be annoyed. I'm like, I'm going to see him and I'm just going to want to talk about this. So I don't want to see him. So I don't talk about it. Then you distance yourself. He feels that distance that you are putting into the relationship. So that causes him to like internally panic and be like, well, I don't want to be like exiled again. He's probably self-conscious about his big personality. He's probably been told about this before and he's having a hard time like facing the truth. And like, this is how he's going about dealing with it, you know? Yeah. So yeah, I think try to be

empathetic to him and that will give you the answer of how important it is to you and whether you need to bring it up. And then if you choose not to bring it up in the immediate future, you know, try to make him feel more included. And then if there's ever an opportunity, even when it's not bothering you to just have an honest conversation with him, again, I don't know how that goes. It might always be awkward, but maybe then you can wait for the right time where you feel like he's maybe a little bit more open to receiving it, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And anytime you give someone a criticism like that, I would always throw like a handful of real great compliments his way and all the ways that you appreciate his friendship and what he brings to the table as a friend and why you love him and what are his great qualities and et cetera, et cetera. That's always easier to hear, you know, because

it's kind of like, hey, we don't hate you. We would just love you even more if you didn't do X, Y, or Z. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of how I would handle it. Okay. I think that's good advice too, because I did talk to my mom about it and I told her how I felt about the situation and she was really supportive of me and that she was like well she kind of knew the history of our friendship so she didn't respond like making plans or anything she just said thank you and she said I understand where you're coming from you know to me and just said I don't want to like cause any awkwardness in your friendship we all have our quirks and we all uh we all can get in our head about it and we do funny things to deal with it and so yeah i would just find a maybe a way to like tease him about it call him out in

a playful way about this fact that he dm'd your sister because like it's not a big secret right he must assume that you're going to know. Be like, oh. Maybe say that. Be like, oh. And you like this show, by the way? The show that we were talking about? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I don't watch it as much as my sister, but I do. So next time you see him, you're hanging out, and not in a, like, hey, call him up, we need to talk kind of energy, but, like, you're just chilling and you're like what's this i hear about you want to watch this show with beth like what's that about i thought you hate it like oh i don't know i mean like and then you just be like listen if you want to hang out with us more you don't have to go through our sister yeah or something that's good

no i think that's good like you know just call him out and see what he says and then maybe that's the time where you just say like if you miss us just reach out and that's where you say you know, just call him out and see what he says. And then maybe that's the time where you just say like, if you miss us, just reach out. And that's where you say, you know, like he had this two year period with your husband, you know, granted your husband played a role in this too, but like at any point, like just reach out because right now you, you clearly have a friendship with this person where you guys are friends, you see a lot of great qualities in each other, but when you don't like something that each other is doing, no one's feeling comfortable enough to say, hey, what's up? And that's tough to do.

And I will say, that is more of the dynamic between him and my husband. Like they will kind of call each other on things in a way to air grievances. But that's never been my dynamic in the friendship. I've always just kind of let my husband take the lead on that kind of stuff maybe he still can where's my family i felt like i should yeah so yeah follow your husband's lead let's do what he would do in that way and try it out but i don't think there's any real urgency and i think you can write wait for the

right time okay i like that idea too because I don't want it to be like a, hey, it's been two weeks, but you did this, and I hated it. Like, out of the blue kind of thing. Yeah, it feels a little icky, and I get why it annoys you for sure, but I don't think he's doing any harm. Yeah. He's just not a good communicator

when he's feeling insecure. Yeah, okay. That's good advice. Thank you. All right, take care. Let us know if there's any updates. Okay, I will. All right.

Thank you. Yeah, bye-bye. Bye. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to check out Going Deeper with Jason. I hate calling him Gabby's Jason because he's not Gabby's Jason

but Jason from The Bachelorette. So many unanswered questions. No one's heard from him since he's left the show. Now you're going to finally get a chance to. We have The Bachelorette recap dropping on Wednesday

and don't forget last chance to pre-order Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday comes out tomorrow and it would mean truly the world if you would give it a shot

either for yourself or a friend. It's good. I'm just telling you. Pull the trigger. Yeah, just tap it. Just do it. You're crazy.