The Viall Files - E487 Going Deeper With Kit Keenan - F*ckBoy Dating, Plus Powercouples: Tom & Gisele/Adam & Behati

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by model, fashion designer, entrepreneur, and Bach Nation star, Kit Keenan. On this episode, we catch up with Kit and ask her about her dating life, the importance of setting expectations with communication, and how anyone in hookup culture can be guilty of becoming a f*ckboy. We also talk about how you can start a relationship knowing that it isn’t for forever, if it’s better to have a roster or one person when casually dating, and how your parent’s relationship can serve both as a standard and a pressure. We then get into some pop culture news, laying out the updates on the developing drama and divorce rumors between Tom Brady and Gisele Bündchen, and dive into speculations of Adam Levine’s relationship dynamic with his wife, Behati, after he acknowledges the DMs but denies that he was having an affair. We then bring on our two Texting Office Hours callers! Our first caller wonders if she can lock in a date with a guy her aunt scouted out for her at a wedding. Never meeting this guy in real life, she wonders if she should be bold and take a chance with this man. Our next caller matched on a dating app with her first kiss and first boyfriend from 15 years ago. Focused on what their relationship used to be, she has to learn to ask better questions to understand how this guy has changed in the past 15 years from what she used to date. “Every fuckboy wants a family one day.” Please nominate us for People’s Choice Awards The Pop Podcast of 2022 by going to https://www.votepca.com/pop-culture/the-pop-podcast-of-2022 and typing in “The Viall Files” where you can nominate up to 25 times a day!  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET  on Amazon's Amp app.  Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen: For everything you do in bed, check out http://www.Brooklinen.com today for their luxurious home and bedding essentials, and use Promo code VIALLFILES for $20 off plus free shipping on your purchase of $100 or more Betterhelp: When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALLFILES today to get 10% off your first month. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @kitkeenan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files i'm your host nick i'm in new york. Allie and amanda are all the way over in LA. How you ladies doing? Far away across the country, thriving. I miss you guys. It would be nice to get back to LA. I know. I feel like we haven't seen you in years.

Yeah, it makes me so sad looking to this empty patch of studio where usually you and the guest are, and I'm like, oh. I feel like we've been recording good content, but it's just not quite the same in person with the room intact, so to speak. We have a great episode for you. The one, the only Kit Keenan is with us. You might know Kit from

Bachelor Nation on Matt James' season. I've gotten to know Kit a little bit. I've been following her career. She is one of my more favorite people from Bachelor Nation. She's done a great job of kind of know kit a little bit i've been following her career she is uh one of my more favorite people from bachelor nation she has done a great job of kind of separating herself doing her own thing and more importantly doing her own thing and i follow her on tiktok she's a classic new yorker wise beyond her years um and uh she wanted to come on talk about relationships and and pop

culture and i was like yeah come on in and And so you'll really enjoy this episode with Kit. She's a ton of fun. I'm glad to have been able to catch up with her on this show. Big announcement, Tino will be with us next week. We are set to record on Sunday. He has confirmed with me a couple of times. So barring any unforeseen developments, Tino will be finally getting his chance to speak next Thursday, and we look forward to having him on. And we'll see how it goes. We will see how it goes. Anything, ladies, that you want to update us with?

One thing I would like to talk about is this iconic art exhibit from an artist named Audrey Burke. Shout out, Audrey. Which was, she turned all of the unsolicited dick pics she received into, she recreated them with graphite and made it a whole art exhibit called Unsolicited. I think that's so iconically cool.

Genius idea. How many dick pics did she get? 15 piece show. Okay, so 15 different dicks. So we're talking a minimum of 15 dicks. It happens. Did any of the guys come back and be like, that's my dick?

I mean, it's kind of a brilliant move because who's going to come back and... Out themselves as an unsolicited dick. Also, every time you get an unsolicited dick pic, I feel like there's always a question of like, if it's actually theirs. I've always questioned that. How many dick pics do

you feel like you how many have you gotten probably like 10 maybe in your life yeah this year but i got one one time and he literally had like a cock ring on and i was like why would i don't feel like this is you like i don't feel like this is like a photo that you've just taken. But I mean, this is like from the internet. But a guy with a cock ring is definitely like taking pictures of his dick.

I'm pretty sure. Right? Never. I don't even know what his name was. I'm pretty sure. I don't know. It was a quick unmatch. Well,

great for, what's the artist's name? Audrey. Audrey Burt. Audrey, great, great taking a, turning a negative into a positive.

Also, Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday is available on sale. We talk a little bit about it in this book, in this episode. More importantly, it turns out our texting office hour person has read it. But I hope you guys check it out. Super happy with how people have been responding to it. Again, if you're out there dating, I promise you it's a good read, even if you're in a relationship of any kind. There's something for everyone. It's an easy read.

It's like a manual for referring back to various aspects of your relationship, and there's some fun anecdotal stories about me, and it feels like a one-on-one conversation. So I truly hope you give it a shot. So I truly hope you give it a shot. Go to vilefiles.com. And there's a link for, you know, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, indie bookstores, Audible, or it's me reading it. So please check it out. Please.

Yeah, I said please. And don't forget tomorrow, the episode number two of our special Ask Nick update show is tomorrow, Friday. So you don't want to miss that. We appreciate everyone who supported the first update show. It seemed like people really enjoyed it. So we're bringing you a second one. So make sure to tune into that. Tell your friends.

Updates from Ask Nick episodes, texting office hours. You won't want to miss that. That is tomorrow on Friday. And again, don't forget Tino next Thursday. Kit Keenan, everybody. Kit, welcome. Hey, what's up? How are you?

Good. Good to be with you. Yeah, I'm so excited to be back on. Yeah, we're excited to have you. I asked Kit to, I wanted to see you. I was in town. I was like, do you want to watch Bachelor in Paradise? She's like, I'm not watching.

And then Kit was like, but I'll come on and talk relationships and dating with you. And I was like, you know what? Come on. I don't typically have a bachelor alum on going deepers if they're not talking about a breakup. But I was like, I feel like I like your TikTok. You have a lot to say. You're really insightful. Let's catch up with Kit. Let's see what she's up to. I feel like I'm in this time in my life where I'm just like really figuring it out. Like I started reading your book and there's a lot in there that I'm like, wow, this is what I'm going through right now. Like I'm 23. So I'm like just really starting to like date seriously right now. Like I'm not necessarily looking for that. I'm looking for like happiness, joy, someone to experience life with at this moment and maybe

someone to fall in love with, but not like my forever person necessarily. I don't have that pressure on me yet. So I feel like I'm at like a really interesting like pivotal point dating wise. I think that's smart. It's great. I mean, I think for a lot of people, I mean, like this book, if you're looking for that, I would say this book is for anyone. Like it just depends on what you're looking for. And if you're looking for a serious relationship, I think this mind, like this book can certainly

like lead you down a path too. And someone in your position right now, what I love about what you just said is you know what you want, right? I think there's a lot of people in any aspect of their life, regardless of their age, will, there's only one goal, and that goal is to, I guess society tells us, I'm going to be married and have kids someday. I think that pressure is even more so on women too, where men, it's just like, yeah, I take my time or whatever. But I love that you right now know what it is you're looking for, which is just, it sounds like to get to know people and to date. I feel like that's part of it. I think like I do know kind of what I want, but like in general,

I'm just like, I want to experience like dating right now. And I do want to experience falling in love, but I'm not necessarily like looking for anything solid or like specific necessarily. If I fall in love and have a boyfriend, amazing. If not, that's okay. And like the people that I'm dating and meeting, I'm like, okay, I just have fun with you. So like, let's continue this. So how do you go about, cause you came in and you were just like, I agree a lot with your definition of fuck boy, but kind of, you had some other, and my question to you is we can go into the discussing fuck boys, but my question to you is how do you kid go about not having anyone

think of you as a fuck boy with like the, you know, cause that, like what you, what you're saying right now, I've had a lot of, you know, a lot of guy friends will say that's that same thing. It's like, Hey, if I meet someone great, you know, if I fall in love, fine, but I'm out there meeting people. And honestly, like doing what you're doing now is, I think that's great. Everyone should have that moment, but I'm just a big believer right now with hookup culture and the way people are communicating. Unless we communicate, you're bound to have someone like you more than you like them. And maybe you guys hook up or maybe you just hang out for a period of time and maybe there's some excitement early on and then maybe feelings change.

And then maybe you go a different direction. They're just like, what the fuck? You said this, you said that. So how do you go about communicating and making sure that as you go around meeting guys and getting to know them and then moving on because it's like, hey, you're nice, you're cool, but you're not my person.

How do you go about not being someone's fuckboy? Now I'm scared that I'm a fuckboy. How do you go about not being someone's fuckboy? I'm like, now I'm like scared that I'm a fuckboy. But I think everyone in hookup culture has the potential to be one. Yeah. No, I don't think I am because I do communicate like exactly what I want most of the time. Like I would say like over the summer, I had like a cute summer fling, which is exactly what I wanted.

And like from the beginning, we had a conversation. We were like, okay, we just want to spend the summer with someone and like go out together, have fun, like be in the Hamptons together, whatever. And I was like, I will never like this person like enough to think that like one day they might be my boyfriend. And I think like if you're in that situation, like why would you want to be with somebody who doesn't like you that much? So when you were having this thought of like, when did you communicate that to him? In the beginning, we were just like, we don't want this to be anything serious. And it never changed for either of you.

Yeah. And it was like great. I mean, I was like so, I was like heartbroken over a situation chip at the beginning of the summer. And then like in the middle of the summer, I was like, OK, I need to just like get over this. And so it was really nice to have like open communication with somebody right from the beginning that like we just wanted something like fun and casual. And I had never really done that before. And then I was like, OK, this is not a fuck boy. Like this person, maybe other people would think that they are a fuck boy because they are like dating

multiple women and whatever, whatever. But I think like the huge distinction between somebody who's just kind of like a, like a guy that just sleeps with a lot of girls gets around and a guy that's actually a fuck boy is people that like a fuck boy will tell you that they like you or won't say anything and a guy that just like gets around will make it clear to you that that's what it is in the beginning i think yeah i would generally agree because i don't think i agree with you i don't think a fuck boy means you have lots of sex like we're living in a sex positive world in a sense for hookup culture is a thing like women you have lots of sex like we're living in a sex positive world in a sense hookup culture is a thing like women are empowered to have sex more and more now which is great men

have been having sex or they've been empowered for a while and yeah i i don't i think that makes someone a player right i think and when i get in the in the book about it but like a fuck boy because i think to that person like you said, if you just communicate upfront and check in, then you have less likely of a chance for someone to think of you as a fuck boy. Because I think at the end of the day, you know how people say perception is reality. I think when it comes to fuck boys, it's up to the person because like you go around and it's just like, they were a fuck boy, right? Like no one's calling that. Most people aren't calling themselves fuck boys. You know, they're not naming themselves. It's other people naming us or, you know,

us naming other people fuck boys. And so what I'm saying is like, people are more likely to call you a fuck boy. Like you said, when they're like, when they, you know, I really like you. And not, I don't think most people who are being fuck boys are deliberately saying, well well i like you with and they're lying about it they're just being in the moment being like i this is this is great

i don't know like you're talking about your family it seemed great like maybe we should go on a trip and i really like you and then like three you know and they're not talking about they're just like i totally want to get married someday. Every fuckboy wants to get married someday and have a family. Brooke Lennon, eighth wonder of the world. Brooke Lennon knows that a good set of sheets are essential for all the bedroom activities. That's right.

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with the right therapist that connects with you, that understands you, makes you feel seen. And BetterHelp can do all that. It's super incredible. All you do have to do, go to betterhelp.com, take a quick quiz, let them know what you're looking for. And again, you can be talking to a mental health professional within a matter of days. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com slash vilefiles today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash vilefiles. What do you think about going on trips with people before you're officially boyfriend and girlfriend? I think it all comes down to like boundaries and expectations, like your summer fling. You said you two talked about like, we're going to hang out for the

summer, maybe because we enjoy each other's company. We roam in the same circles. I don't know what your guys' parameters were, but it sounds like you communicated that. Yeah. And, and it sounded like it ended pretty amicably with no one like really being hurt. I just like, we just don't talk anymore and that's like fine with me. Yeah, is it fine with him too? I would assume so.

Yeah, because you guys talked about that. So like feelings can change all the time. But I think people make the mistake of meeting someone and if they're gonna say take a trip early on, they take a trip without having a conversation of what that trip means to them. They will decide for themselves what they think the trip means to them and for the other person or like meeting someone's

family. Like some people, it's just like, I don't know. I hang out with my family all day. I'm going to my family's house. Do you want to meet my family? They're like, you're meeting, you're introducing your family. And they're like, I mean, sure. Yeah. But like, I just, it's not a big deal. Other people, it's like this momentous event. Same thing with trips. Well, I live with my mom, so everyone meets my mom. Exactly, right? And I wonder, like, if people, like, think sometimes, like, oh, my God. No, I don't think so because my mom is, like, so – my mom likes everyone.

Like, I wish she had, like, more discernment on the men that I introduce her to because sometimes most of the time she's just like oh my god I love him like he makes you happy like love that for you she's always on their side like I went on the worst date of my life like probably like this is like two years ago and I came home from the date and I was like really upset like I was just like I give up on dating like I don't want to do this anymore the guy was just like not like in person like I give up on dating. Like I don't want to do this anymore. The guy was just like not like in person. Like I wasn't attracted to him. And then like he just like did like eating with him was like gross. And it was just like a lot of different things that like I was just like, oh, I don't I don't want to do this. Like this is not fun or exciting, you know. And I was like just getting

back into dating. And I had that one date and I came home and I was like, I'm so upset. Like he did this and this and this and it like gave me the ick. And my mom was like, and immediately like, how do you know where, like how he was raised? Like he's probably like a wonderful person. Like he just took you out on this date. Like she's always on the other person's side. I think just because she wants me to be in a relationship, it's not that helpful sometimes. Yeah. I'm like, just be on my side. Does your mom know? I mean, I was going to joke and say, does your mom know you're in your fuckboy era? But I don't mean it like, but you're in your, you're, you're getting to know people era. I'm in my getting to know people era, but at the end of the day, I am a simp.

I always have one person that I'm like, oh yeah, I like them more than everyone else. Really? You always have a favorite on the roster. There's always a favorite. Is that a common thing with a lot of women? Well, I think if you're in a position of hooking up with multiple people, you tend to have someone who there's a little bit bit more of an attachment to even if you don't want to admit it or like yeah from personal experience when i don't want to admit it

nally goes you were my favorite and she kind of like sneakily kind of implies that you know there were other men because there were um there should be that's fine like yeah that's that's called dating around yeah yeah are you when you're dating around well do you someone's just like someone asks you like who are you dating other people what do you say yes you're saying yes great yeah if somebody's not my boyfriend then of course i'll say yes you know some people might be like uh you know not like a lot of people are not good with that type of kind of that would be so. I'm not dating anyone who, that's never happened to me before. Interesting. And so how do you determine your favorite versus like they're just the top of the roster

versus like someone that like maybe they could be the one? I feel like it's just like time. Like a lot of it is time because you can like add someone to the roster who's newer and you might like add someone to the roster who's newer and you might like them but like at the end of the day if you've spent time with some more time with somebody else and you're just more comfortable with them like I don't know that that like means a lot like it's hard to be added to the roster later in the game yeah but how are you like because like think about it like a basketball game like one person has already been playing you know

they're they're they've been like scoring you know they've been playing the game then somebody just gets added to the bench and like you're gonna try to throw them into the game just then like that's a lot of pressure it is but sometimes they rise to the occasion at the game winning shot you know for using basketball I have like like not as much belief in that i guess yeah but it doesn't it seems like right now they're just all they're all just kind of on the roster but like right now unless you get really surprised you have a star player mvp yeah you do yeah but i think there needs to there's not really like a most valuable player in like single player sports like you need need to have, you know, multiple

people on a team to choose your favorite. Okay. You're a big believer in, in, in don't put all your eggs in one basket. Okay. And like, I think the comparison thing like is really helpful. Yeah. Cause like you might not, or I might not think like, oh my God, I have a hard time getting in touch with my feelings in general. So I think sometimes I'll just like have my wall up with somebody for a while until I might go on another date with somebody else. And I'll just be like, whoa, this is not the same. Like I really miss that person. Have you ever been heartbroken? Kinda. I don't, I don't think I've had like that devastation yet, but I've been like really sad about someone for like months and months.

Okay. Yeah. That counts. Yeah. Why do you think that was really sad versus heartbroken? I mean, that's probably not heartbroken in the way like some people who might be listening go, if you don't know if you're heartbroken, then you weren't heartbroken. Yeah.

But like, what were you sad about in that situation? I was more sad because this was not a relationship that like we were in it. We decided to break up because all of my like actual boyfriends, which there were only two, those breakups just kind of like happened like nicely, like agreeably. Like I don't think this is going much further or like life changes, college, whatever. But this was like something like that could have been something and like we were seeing each other for like a few months and then it just like he like moved kind of and like kind of like ghosted me not actually ghosted me and like he'll still call me

like every once in a while but like I was just like whoa this is like crazy like I just lost someone who I thought could someday be my boyfriend. But do you feel like you thought that after he left morally more than while it was happening? Yes, definitely. But that's a projection also like on him. Yeah, I mean, it was probably just more combination of my guess is, you know, you don't realize what you had until you lost it. And then that rejection of he didn't give you the courtesy of that proper goodbye, so to speak. And, you know, it was his call and not yours.

But do you, okay, do you even think that you don't know what you have until you lost it exists? I don't really think that exists. I mean, technically, like, I don't think that's right. Because if you didn't like them when they were right in front of you, like, then I don't think it really makes sense. I don't think that's right because if you didn't like them when they were right in front of you, then I don't think it really makes sense. I don't know. Yeah, well, I mean, Natalie's looking at me because she had to say goodbye before I finally committed. Ashley and Jared famously on Paradise, she had to date someone else before Jared finally woke up. I see your point.

I think that can be true. I think it really depends. I think if it's someone who's just more from a casual dating standpoint, like, you know, I get why you're saying because right now you're just kind of like, I've had a lot of, I've met a lot of nice guys. I've had some nice times with some nice people. But right now it's about me, which that's great.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being selfish. I think it's just great to know when you, it's your time to be selfish and then communicate that with people that right now, you're making decisions for yourself more than anything and that people know. I think in other situations, I do think sometimes people can get in their head and we live in a dating climate where the idea of the next best thing is around the corner, even if you're not even consciously thinking that, or, or maybe you're just afraid of, or you've been, you know, in my case, I was single for a really long time. I had all these serious relationships in my early twenties. I finally got comfortable with being like, you know what? I don't, I don't need someone to feel validated. You know, in my twenties,

I was just like, I, if I don't have a girlfriend, I'm a loser. You know, that's kind of how I felt about myself. That's so rare. I've never met a guy in his 20s that feels like that. I feel like it's because he grew up in New York and I grew up in the Midwest. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But that's how I felt. And then I got really comfortable with it. And then I just had a hard time figuring out, you know, I remember I met, you know, dated some nice people, had a hard time figuring out you know i remember i met you know dated some nice people you know it was great but it was just like i don't know what i need to feel to to let's say this is i want to make take this risk with you right and because when i was younger it would be like i just felt something i was like i'd be my girlfriend you know and so for me i needed the the wake-up call i guess you know a little bit of a, I needed to realize what I

was about to say goodbye to, right. For, you know, and I still didn't have all my answers, all my questions answered. I just knew it was worth the risk, you know? Yeah. And it was this, like her kind of standing her ground and, and saying, you know, it was fun. We, Hey, we did this thing. It was fine. I was fine for a while. I was also having fun. But, you know, Natalie communicated, like my feelings have evolved and they've changed and I no longer want to do what we're doing.

And if you want me in your life, you have to like step up. And like I needed her to really like. I'm so scared to do that. Oh my God. I needed her to really like turn off the spigot. Yeah. No, she she was a baller. But like I I hate like, you know, Jared, for example, like Jared's harder on himself than me. But Jared feels genuine embarrassment. Like he's ashamed of himself that Ashley had to do that. But Ashley had to do that for him to like be like what am I doing what the fuck am I doing you know and and so I think if you I think for a lot of people you know I think nowadays we're it is getting confusing to figure out what you know like especially when like for me like I wrote this book of all these things of why you shouldn't like you know if you get excited that's great but like ask questions get to know people takes't like, you know, if you get excited, that's great. But like, ask questions, get to know people, take the time, like, you know, like, don't sit there

and just be like, Oh, I had one really good date, like me, you know, stuff like that, right? The only downside of this mentality is, you know, sometimes you're just like, well, it's so pragmatic, you know, so you sometimes need to kick in the pants is what I'm saying. I think the other thing is, like, as you get older, you're thinking to yourself like, whoa, this could be the last person I date, you know? Whereas for me, I'm like, okay, this could be my boyfriend, but like, I doubt that this is going to be the last person I date. Here's my question for you. You talk like someone who has a lot of perspective and I write about that in the book because I'm someone who, and I think most people are more like me than like you when they're younger. I don't think I

had any perspective. Everything was the biggest fucking deal in the world. It was like, this has to happen now. When I turned 25, I had a nervous breakdown about how old I was. And I just lacked perspective. And the little bit I've gotten to know you, you have incredible perspective and a real strong sense of who you are. And I don't think most people at 23 do. I mean, Natalie is some, like Natalie does, but like, you know, that's really hard to find. Where do you get that perspective from, do you think? Well, I think honestly, this is going to sound like kind of bad, but I think it's a blessing and a curse to have parents like yours that you write about in the book that like your parents are like the ideal standard of like marriage. And I never had that

my whole life. Like my biological dad and my mom got divorced when I was one. And my mom had already been married once before that. My, then my mom had me when she was 40, got divorced from my dad, remarried my sister's dad, had my sister, and now they're getting divorced. So my mom and her relationships have taught me a lot of perspective in the sense that sometimes things don't work out and that's okay. And everything is on your timeline, too. She had kids way later in life, which she's always literally since I was younger, she's like, you got to start having

kids early. I don't care about like anything else, but I want grandkids. So I don't know. You make a great point. That part is like funny. And I think she's kind of joking. Like she's not actually putting like extra pressure on me, but like, I do think that it's a blessing and a curse to have like a perfect example because you're always just like, oh my God, I need to have that. No, you're absolutely right. Whereas like for me, I'm like, okay, I mean, I would love to have that. That's obviously like the goal, but I also am more like realistic in that some things don't work out I think you're spot on I mean I'm getting very grateful for my parents and their marriage

and the love that they have in my childhood but like yeah I spent a lot of my energy when I was younger trying to live up to what they had and when it didn't work out early on I couldn't deal with the disappointment in myself. And here you are, like, I guess, seeing your mom go through it, but at the same time, always picking herself back up, living her best life, you know, thriving, rebounding, you know, like, you know, one moment it's like, this sucks, but now I have this have this you know like that perspective of handling disappointment with kind of a more positive outlook and that's yeah I think you nailed it and I think like my biological dad is like literally such a simp and like he's a cancer and like he just like

is very in tune with his emotions and he's been married a few times too. And he is just always like the best thing in the world is love. Like you need to just like go for the love and like everything else, the labels, the like marriage, all of that stuff, the kids, like that's amazing. But like go for the love first because it's like actually the most amazing thing in the world. And I get that, but I'm definitely like I I'm more realistic and like, I want what I want. Like, I would love to have things on a certain timeline, but I know I'm going to be okay regardless.

Like, I'm not putting all my value in like having a perfect marriage and kids by the time I'm 30. Yeah, that's great. I'm listening to you kind of envious. I wish I had that mindset when I was in my 20s. You have to have fun now. Yeah, I just didn't. I was always like, I got to find it.

And I was like, once I find it, then I can enjoy life. But I just remember putting all this pressure on myself. And I think that's, you know, maybe in New York it's a little different. I don't know. Or maybe you have the benefit of having parents that just, you know, maybe in New York, it's a little different. I don't, I don't know. Or maybe you're, do you have the benefit of, of having parents that just, you know, through their own struggles really taught you to, you know, value yourself or, or investing yourself. like I, you know, it took me later in life where I struggled. I had to figure out, well, wait, how do I do want this? I do want the family. I do want to settle down. I want kids. I want to,

you know, have my person. I really got to like, I still got, I have to figure out what that is. And it was harder for me to do that later on because I had that kind of practical mindset of, you know, I'll work out, it'll figure it out. Then I was like, well, now I have to really pick it. I almost had to reverse engineer it. And yeah, maybe that'll be your struggle. I also think the picker thing, it comes from fear. I'm scared to pick wrong and then for my picker to be off and then to get hurt.

So I would rather just not pick. Yeah, that might be something. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know. It's not for me to say. Something to deal with. So I would rather just not pick. Yeah, that might be something. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. It's not for me to say. Something to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel lucky having had my heart crush, but I don't like wish on anyone. But it does. It changes you definitely for the best, but it definitely change. It changes you. So yeah, maybe one of these days is, you know, say, fuck it, go all in, see what happens. Yeah. Either way, you're going to live. Yeah, true.

I feel like you're going to be just fine. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like one of the other things that's kind of scary about the picker situation is not knowing how things will turn out down the line. Because I feel like it's just been on everyone's brains. Like all of these power couples who we thought were like very solid are suddenly like shaky. Like the Tom Brady kid.

Have you been following the Tom Brady, Gisele Bundchen divorce rumors? I have have you a little bit they're getting it seems like getting divorced it seems like pretty you know she was seen at lawyers offices like it really seems like it's escalating um and this was after he'd previously um missed practice in August which he never does um was sort of when people first started to speculate whether their marriage was on the rocks. And now it's just really snowballing. She hasn't been to his games. And I'm curious, like, what do you think, if you were Tom Brady, would you just like retire from football?

Since that seems to be at like kind of the heart of this is like her being like, I've raised our whole family for all these years. Yeah. But what if there's other issues that we don't know about and then he retires and he has nothing and he's also divorced? That's possible.

Like you got to keep the one other thing that you love. Yeah, I think we're making the assumption. And you're right. We don't really know. Maybe it's not just football. But she was quoted as saying something to the effect of, I've done my part. It was kind of a very kind of poignant thing to say to put out there. And it just kind of reads as, listen, Tommy, you know, like for the past few

years, you've, you know, TB12, we changed cities for you. You won some Super Bowls. You told me you were going to retire. You retired and a month later you're back. And it, yeah, it sounds like it gives off the vibe at least that she might feel like she's been doing a hundred percent of her half and 20% of his for a period of time. And it sounds like maybe she's decided to put her foot down if that is the case. Yeah. I have a hard time like, like, listen to be as great as he is. You have to almost be a little nuts and crazy, right? To be as exceptional as the aaron rogers and the tom brady's like you're just wired differently i think you know but i think that comes at a price

with your personal lives you know and i don't know if he knows how to retire i almost feel sad like i don't think like i think with a lot of those greats like it's so hard because they just want they're just so comfortable with with everything that comes with being the best. Yeah, walking out. But give it up. You've literally accomplished everything. You can't leave a poker table. They have to just keep winning.

But there's that Jay-Z quote that's like, even my own fans, like old man, just stop. I could if I would, but I can't. I'm hot. It's like he will just stop I could if I would but I can't I'm hot it's like he will never stop but that's different because it's it's an art form that you can do forever football is not something that you can really put your body through forever true but even art too like sometimes maybe you're more in a creative space than you were before maybe try to put out some art and it's just like like you should have stopped you know I think I think that line is great because it makes, like you have to, you know, you could argue that football is art in a sense, right?

But like you almost have to respect the art or respect the game to the point of which, you know, like you had your moment and now you're holding on, you know? And listen, he's still a great quarterback. But it's just like, if it's about, if this is the primary problem, it's, it's a really sad ending potentially to an otherwise impeccable career for Tom Brady. I mean, it's truly been almost flawless. Like the one time he got suspended for like deflacate, he just came back and won a Superbowl that year. Like, you know, like that just added to the brilliance that was Tom Brady and like this seemingly picturesque family. And he's going to potentially lose that

because he can't just give it up. Then you lose everything. Yeah. Because he can't do football forever. Right. And Tom has looked, in his prep conference, he just looks off mentally. Well, and Serena Williams is such a good example

of someone who was a literal, like the greatest of all time has an incredible career but stepped away and she doesn't use the word retire she used what's the word it's like it's not retire but basically like pivoting to something else and she's like I just love being a mom

and I want to be the greatest mom of all time and I want to grow my family like she just has different priorities and she'll channel her love for tennis into other things. But I think Tom needs to find the problem. And that's you're right. You bring up and like it's credit to her because like Tom Brady running out of the tunnel every Sunday and having everyone cheer for you, like being on the bachelor or just whatever you're you're better. You're given a couple moments that are just it's just a just a minuscule of what the Tom Brady's of world get to

or the Jay-Z's get to experience. But when you walk in a room and people are screaming your name, it's like a drug. It's this really insane feeling. And he's been getting that drug for the past 20-some years. But he'll always be Tom Brady. But not for football. I don't know.

We're on the same page. I'm just trying to like empathize of why it's been such a struggle for him or why i think why these athletes do struggles i do like i don't i'm surprised there's not more like documentaries on that in just terms of like and maybe there will and maybe we should do it i don't know like we're talking about mental health but just the the the transition from greatness to like normalcy on some level is, I think, an incredibly challenging transition for people. And I think it's an incredibly sad one for a lot of them. It's so hard.

But I think you need to have a second career almost. You need to get super curious about something else and then just become the best at that. Well, he already signed a $ 250 million dollar deal to like call football games but maybe that's just like that's yeah maybe and maybe that's exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting because that's still in the football space he's just has to watch the games instead of playing the game yeah i feel like tom ready needs to like completely separate himself and find a new passion that he can be the best in the world at. Yeah, just get like super into gardening, Tom. I literally have to say, can we put him on HGTV? Like, let's just put him in that realm.

Interior design or something, sculpting. I don't know. Something. Pottery. Pottery. I'm seeing pottery in his future. Yeah, that would be great. Like kind of closing question on this is I found the quote you were referencing, Nick,

which is Giselle saying, I've done done my part which is to be there for tom i moved to boston and i focused on creating a cocoon and a loving environment for my children to grow up in and to be there supporting him and his dreams do you think it's sustainable for couples to kind of take turns supporting one another's dreams or do you think they have to create an infrastructure where they can happen that happens simultaneously i realistically, I think as someone who's never been married and what the fuck do I know? But everything I've been taught is marriage is a really long, like forever is a long fucking time, you know?

And I think it would be great and ideal to be like, you know, we're always balancing each other out all the time, always. But like, I don't think that is realistic. And given that marriage is, you know, meant to But like, I don't think that is realistic. And given that marriage is, you know, meant to be forever, I think realistically there might be moments where it's just like, hey, you know, like sometimes there's couples where like, you know, one of the partners goes back to school while the other one like raises the kids and work or something like that. That doesn't seem equitable or the same. And there might be like someone feeling like overworked

while the other one's really investing in themselves and hope that that investment pays off. Like, I think that's normal. I just think, I think, yeah, I think at times it can, it can happen temporarily. It's just not sustainable. If you're going to be setting these boundaries and expectations with each other, you can't do what Tom did. Cause I think it's that reneging on the agreement you had, like he retired. And I'm assuming that choice to retire was a mutual decision he made with his wife and there were probably conversations about like what they were like plans they had and then he didn't and that must have felt like a real betrayal yeah totally well speaking of betrayals what do we

think Adam Levine and Behati were seen at I I feel bad. I cannot say her last name. I get so intimidated by the vowels. But they were seen at the beach just like having a nice family day recently. This comes after, of course, like the big Sumner hurrah scandal. And one, do you think it's okay to have an opinion on whether someone takes a partner back like after some form of infidelity or lines being crossed in that area? Like not just on celebrities celebrities but like on friends like do you think it's valuable and worthwhile and appropriate to communicate how you feel about their partner post that breach of trust? Well the difference between having an opinion and communicating it's okay I think it's fine

to have an opinion we have opinions but I mean you just like it's natural to have judgments on everything so I guess but to your point is it appropriate to communicate to a friend? Well, I think the first question is, I think it's appropriate now to start asking the question, do we think they're in some sort of non-traditional relationship? Well, that's what I was going to say. I was like, is it even necessarily taking him back? Or did she know about this the whole time? Like, we don't know that she was necessarily betrayed by any of these DMs.

Like, she could be doing the same thing, if we're being honest simplest explanation is often the right one and it's like based on what we know it's like we know a lot of people in hollywood or you know these elite circles kind of have these non-traditional kind of some sort of openness to their marriages like that that's a thing she was you know his comment of i did not have an affair you know but he didn't deny the dms but he was like i did not have an affair an affair can only happen if one person feels betrayed by the other person just because you're fucking other people or sliding in dms like if you have a boundary that allows that to happen then there's no affair so do you think he just said crossed a line in his statement to appease everybody who was like giving him shit well listen i mean he's adam levine and so not everyone has these types of relationships and like mainstream like you know middle america and

or regardless even if she just decided like i love you and i forgive you i have no clue i think it's like i was talking to one of my friends about this the other day. I think it's just so interesting how they are being so seen right now together. I think it's deliberate. Yeah. I think it's more likely that she's like,

I don't want to... I think what she is most pissed at is people judging her. Totally. Right? Even though they might have had an agreement, but she doesn't want, like, because he was so sloppy. If they are in any type of non-traditional relationship, like, you can be in one. You just don't want the judgy fucking world to know.

Yeah. It's like, hey, we're into this shit. You might tell your friends, but, like, I don't know if it's, like, good for their brand to, like, have that type of relationship. And now she, like. She's taking all taking all of she's taking all of it's just like either she's the one who's like you know putting up with it or it's like hey now we have to tell the world we're in a like an open relationship I don't want to do that you know and so I feel like that's what's going on but who knows but they are clearly or maybe they'll just like be seen together now and like quietly never speak about it again yeah and he hopefully won't like be so public about whatever

i just think he was so sloppy that he must have he must on some level have not been crossing a boundary with her i could be wrong i don't know but like i also think like he was so sloppy. I'm always like, was this meant to be? I don't know. Who knows? He DMed Natalie. Oh my God. That's amazing. Yeah, there was the accept message.

He deleted it. Does Natalie remember what it said? You only notice it because after it all happened, like everyone was like checking their DMs because if you DM someone and they unsend it, if you have never DMed them, I don't know what it says. It doesn't say anything. Yes, if they DMed you. If they don't, if you've never messaged someone,

it just, it's just blank. But if you DM someone and unsend it, it will still say, do you want to accept this message? Even though there's no message to accept. So Natalie didn't see the original one. Not everyone. That's crazy. Yeah. I wonder what it said it said probably something like sus it was probably something like yeah you're you're unreal or something yeah but i'm convinced they had some sort of understanding

that they don't want to say and ultimately there was no affair in their minds so there's nothing to change. And now they're out there putting on a good face. Yeah. I would still be like just pissed about like the- Fuck yeah. He was sloppy. Public, yeah, knowledge.

He was fucking sloppy. That's the thing is I feel like a lot of people in those positions, it's just like, do what you want to do, whatever. We have an understanding. Don't embarrass me. Yeah. And he did.

Yeah. We were talking about Don't Worry Darling. Kate, you saw it recently. What did you think? I saw it last night. Because we've been talking a lot about the kind of, yeah. I loved it. You loved it? Loved. I've been wanting to see it for a while. And my best friend and I are like both very early into relationships with people. Her, the guy that she's seeing is 10 years older than her. And the guy that I'm seeing is one year younger than me. So they're like literally like 11 years of art or 12 years of art. But I honestly think the guy that she's seeing is like way more immature than the one I'm seeing, which is very

funny. But we were supposed to go on a double date and like both see it. And then that didn't end up happening. So I went on like a movie date last night and I saw it, which does, I think, make you like a movie a little bit more if it's a date and you're with someone you like. You could hate it together. Yeah, you could. You could. But if it's like good, if it's a good movie, you might be sitting there thinking, oh my God, this is the best movie I've ever seen. But I did in general, I really liked it. I thought Harry Styles was like- Yeah, how'd our boy do?

Actually, incredible actor. I thought there was so much talk. Oh my God, he's like, why are they having this musician act in a movie? He can't do it all. Or he just got a job because his girlfriend's director. You know, there were critics saying that. I think- He deserved it.

He's very talented. And I think he deserved it. He's very talented and I think he deserved it. Absolutely. So we should go, we gotta go see it. It was also like really fun to look at on the screen.

I want to take the Keenan recommendation because she was going to go see it with some friends and then she didn't go and I was kind of like, you know what, I'll just wait for it to come out. Like I don't,

I didn't have the guts to go see it without a, like a solid review. Yeah. Not too intense. There was like, I think there was like two Now go see it without a solid review. Yeah. Not too intense. There was like, I think there was like two. Now I ask how the sex scenes were. Two casual kind of sex scenes.

One is like pretty fun. And then the second one is like more low key. There might be a third. But it's definitely a good date movie. How was that on your date? That's what I was going to ask. Loved it. Take some notes.

Did you make any comments at all was it awkward did it laugh like how did he respond i think there were like some slight comments made very good and like a little like laugh so how how long have we been hanging out with this guy probably like two months now but like this is somebody i knew for a while but it sounds like tried it kind of like once. Didn't really like happen. And then now it's like trying again a little. Who made the first outreach? We saw each other during fashion week.

Interesting. Yeah. Well, he had been reaching out like over that whole time. Hey, no, it's ladies. But like you seem to really, you have that. It's that perspective that you have of, it seems like, you know, your time is valuable. Yeah. We had a whole conversation about that the other week. Yeah, that's my read on you, is that like, you know your time is valuable.

And it takes, I think, most people a long time to really realize that, how valuable their time is. And when they, you know, and your energy is your time and your power, and you only have so much energy in any day. And we waste so much of that energy on people who don't deserve it and you seem to really have an understanding of how valuable your time is and uh i think that's great yeah i try sometimes i like get a little lost on that and you're human yeah and it's fun to like you know lose a little you know you get lose a little time get a little fucked up and have someone crush your spirits but um yeah if you can uh if you be like kit no just know how valuable your time is i do thought that study you sent was really interesting though

oh yeah i read that the um kiss and makeup yeah yeah so it was basically um a study of psychology today the key points as quoted by the article our relationships are made up of positive and negatives but the question is whether the positive can balance out the negative and the research is showing that indeed positive perceptions of your partner can go very far in buffering which is counter to what you say nick buffering yeah well i think it just depends it's it's a it's the rule break it's the sorry it's the difference between if it's like just a little thing, if it's an annoyance or if it's like a complete deal breaker. Yeah, I would want to know. I think most people I think a lot of people will use some good moments to justify extreme bad moments. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't think they're equitable or equal, you know, or they'll use good moments of that happened like a year ago or that first date or it's like we met or how they

met you know that story of that meet cute that they have that they hold on to for so long and and and they realize like I'm only I love telling this story but like their relationship is made up of a lot of fights and arguments and there's no compatibility or things like that. So I think you want like the peaks and valleys are nice. I do think too many people will justify the bad because they have a couple of good moments and they're and they and they overweigh the good to justify the bad. Well, also that in that article, they were talking about how like that, that energy that you have after a fight is like so amazing.

And so I think like sometimes it's okay to like pick a little fight or like a little argument just to like spice things up a little bit because that feeling post fight is like so hot. Have you dated a guy who's picked fights before? No. I have felt that

or it's just like, I know you're just, you're literally just trying to pick a fight and I feel like you want to, you want to feel that energy and is that something y'all doing?

No, I have dated guys that have like said like little like things like, oh my God, like I heard you saw your ex last night

or something like that. It's just to annoy you, just to get you rattled. Yeah, or to like find something out that I haven't told them or something. Have you experienced that, Ellie and Amanda, from men you've dated? I don't think I've ever fought with a partner, if I'm being honest. Well, I feel like in picking a fight, like I was kind of having a conversation with my boyfriend last week where I was like, I can feel myself wanting to pick a fight.

And it's just like, I think it's usually a sign that there's something more going on there and when you first said men don't do that I was like yeah because men don't fucking communicate which is not fair that's a generalization but I do think in general I wouldn't include myself in that but um in general I think like maybe women are a little bit more socialized to like communicate how they're feeling in the moment versus where like kind of like you talk about like the gentleman's breakup like instead of maybe having a conversation about the ways this relationship isn't working there's maybe the tendency to just like treat someone shittily until they do yeah men will definitely sap like that's what men do they'll sabotage the show of it and be like just break up with me so yeah i don't have to communicate so weak oh my

gosh that is it's a common thing men do all, Kit, you down to do some texting office hours? Yeah. How's it going? Hi, I am Amber and I'm 32. How can we help Amber? I need help crafting a text to a guy that I don't, I haven't met in person, but my aunt found him for me at a wedding. Your aunt found him for you at a wedding? Good wing woman. Okay. All right found him for you at a wedding. Good wing woman. Okay, all right. Oh, yeah.

It was fun. Is that where we're at? Have you had any discourse or dialogue with him? How did aunt find him? Tell us from when aunt found him to where we are now. Give us a little backstory. So I guess I'm recently single. It's been like six months where i was like okay your relationship

lived with him so i just moved out how's your heart it's in may um it's you know i'm getting there your book has been helping thank you oh you're the best love it love it love it oh my gosh like so good like i started tearing up at the first line of the uh get over them sections i didn't i we for for the record i had no idea she uh had read the book when we yeah i didn't mention it at all oh what the fuck literally so hey it's so helpful um so yeah i wanted to say that but um yes my aunt is like my wing woman she's it's still in my hometown you know six hours away like doesn't even live near me but anytime she goes to a wedding she is on a mission she's like sending it's she's at the rehearsal dinner scoping people out the then the

day of she's sending me photos of like the pew of the church like people just guys sitting alone guys sitting on like okay and at first like I was really taking this like to be like a joke I'm like okay this is never really gonna work out but whatever this like to be like a joke. I'm like, okay, this is never really going to work out, but whatever. So I'll play around with it. And I'm like sending her like cry face emojis and kind of laughing like, you know, 32 and up, please. Or like an older, you know, guy would be great. So last, this was not this past Saturday, the one before that, um, she was at a wedding and I, that Saturday night I get a random text from a number saying like, hi, I'm with your aunt. And she says we should meet. Like the high wave emoji. I was like, okay, like, cool. Like maybe this worked. And then like 10 minutes later,

I got a text from her. She must have gone back to the table. And she's like, so did you get a text like from this man, Brad? This is happening at the wedding. Yes. Like this was at the wedding she was at and it happened. So he, I, in this point, I didn't know. Did you get a picture of this guy? Do you? So I did. She's sending me like, yes, blurry kind of photos.

She's trying to sneak and take. And I did, I sent them it, but yeah, there is a photo and he's very cute. I'm like, okay. He's 30, same same age you know like this is great like maybe i should respond so i was like on a date at the time with somebody else here um and then like he went to the bathroom so i responded and i just said like hi you know to um exclamation marks and then um kind of like lol my aunt and then i said like she told me his name so i said like his name and then question mark and then this was like 10 30 at night like he's at the wedding he didn't respond so we've had no communication since then uh interesting

wait okay so just what are the texts that you have had with brad so far so really just yeah it was just the hi i'm with your aunt uh hi i'm with your aunt from that's it at the wedding and she said we should meet yes okay so and you have you reached out and got it and then him not so it's the ball's in your court now yeah so i did i responded like that night but you know what i would have loved for you to say and like it's fine it's no big deal and maybe maybe i'm off here but i would have loved when he reached out to you for you to reply like hey can i text you back i'm on a date right now no yes no yes i get yeah i would not have turned him away i don't know no no that was no it would not have turned him away he would have been like what yeah anyway my friend you don't think he's that that you guys gotta i'm telling you i don't know i i don't think he's... You guys gotta... I'm telling you.

I don't know. I can't tell. Just to stir the pot. He was maybe just being nice. Maybe he was just being nice. My aunt was standing there. She showed him a picture of me. How aggressive is Auntie Jane? Well, I mean, she's not aggressive.

I wouldn't say aggressive. She's low-key. She would probably sneak over to him. Just the two of them was probably like, so I heard, well, she asked the groom if he had any single friends that like the groom sent him or sent her to. Well, the easy option and the ego option would be like not to hit this guy up again. Cause clearly like he's not like, it's not at the top of his mind yeah but but we love a shooter you gotta shoot yeah you gotta shoot like why not so the other thing is he he has a public instagram profile i found it because like my friend had this app and i found his last name and he's like very attractive okay all right he's very handsome he's very handsome i know like also he's great he's very greek clearly from his page but um my aunt said that she heard the wedding are you

like really into greek girls so i'm italian but i feel like italians and greeks are fond of each other i think yeah thank you yeah so strong strong fuck boy energy very strong fuck boy energy i know the first pick i like was worried about but it's a sister because there's a comment that said sibling goals i mean listen like as i always say one person's fuck boy is another person's future husband i'm just i think this is a little face to moment yeah he's sucking in here it's okay i love like how tall do you think this guy is hard to tell 5 11 yeah it's going 5 11 it's definitely yeah yeah i think you still gotta shoot personally yeah here's what i need you to do first i'm so glad you called and you're sharing this story but i also sense from you you're weirdly a little bit more invested in the outcome than you should be.

Okay. Yeah. You don't know anything about this guy at all. Ants want, you know, whatever. So like you shooting your shot and it not going the way you want, like shouldn't, shouldn't, like, yeah, your ego, whatever. But like he has so many reasons from a guy's guys generally hate being set up and they hate like being set up by ants is just like, you are your, your aunt didn't set you up. In fact, she probably like gave you, gave him a lot of reasons to be very reluctant. I say this because those are all the reasons why you can tell you, you got to shut the fuck up if it doesn't go

the way you want. Right. So like, just have that mindset you have this is fun this is exciting this is adventurous and like it does not matter if it doesn't go the way you hope because like you shouldn't hope anything this is just more like fuck it like this is such this is such a fucking move yeah you know so i need you to like hear me on that and and just realize that also like you already have some ics to go off of like if it doesn't work out like so many ics to tap into yeah yeah so just keep that in mind but like what what do you think she should say in this initial text it's definitely we have to reference the ant we got that's what i'm thinking yeah we might have to throw the ant out of the bus a little bit i don't know it's almost like we have to i think because what i'm saying is like guys generally don't like to be set up and they don't like

you have to like make it sound like you aren't his team in a weird way you know you definitely don't want this kind of like it's you got to catch him off guard amanda's usually pretty good at stuff like this too but like he can't be expecting this text and it's you're gonna have to take some risks too and again since we have nothing to lose risks are easy you definitely don't want to send the like so you know hey what's up hey what's up i know my aunt thinks we should get together like that's definitely don't do that you have to be be kind of bold here, right? You kind of have to be like, you should go out with me and then recognize, I know you're probably nervous because it's a setup kind of energy, but let me, you know, since I'm a closer or something like that, I'm going to, you know, this is me letting you know, I'm worth your time or something

like this is what I would do if i was exactly in this exact situation i would hit the out of the blue facetime oh my god wow right that's the move natalie natalie's in the room she nodded with a yes yeah if you can do it or if you don't want to do it like completely out of the blue you you could just text him like a basic text, like, hey, hi. And then when he responds, then you hit the FaceTime. Just so you know he's on his phone. Could she just text and say, like,

hey, would love to like chat live or something? Like basically bring the- No, because that takes away the like- It's the boldness. Yeah. Well, what time of day do we have? Then it sounds like a zoom meeting or something you only get one shot though i know well then if he doesn't answer you have to text coward

yes yes okay that's really good amanda that is good do you do it at like 5 p.m so it's not in the middle of the workday but it's not like a booty call. Yeah, what time do we call? Something on a weeknight. I think you send a courtesy, hey, hey, what's up? Right after he's like, nothing much. How about you? The classic response, boom, FaceTime. Does that not seem like even more clingy and creepy

than just doing the FaceTime? It's like- I think you do the FaceTime. I don't think it's in the text. Yeah. Really? Because if he doesn't respond, I think this could snowball into a swing.

That's what I said to begin with. I would hit the out of the blue FaceTime. We're brainstorming here. No bad ideas. And if he doesn't answer. All right, let's table FaceTime. A strong option. But are there any potential just strong texting openers

that we could send to pique his curiosity? The hard part is we don't know anything about him. We don't know what to like. Yeah, now we know everything about him. But then is it creepy? Well, I don't think you should say I was on your Instagram. I shouldn't really know his Instagram. I think it needs to have something to do with like my aunt it's a bit

juvenile this is a bit juvenile but so is calling him a coward but it's also good and i thought like you got to be sometimes i wish i knew if this guy was like a sports fan or something because you could just hit him with like some random sports fact and try to like argue with him about sports likes to travel i think he actually where was the wedding so the wedding was in pittsburgh pennsylvania that's where she lives and we know he lives in new york he's a new yorker no so he lives in philly but not far like it's a train ride away well could you say something like pretty bold move to give your phone number to a rando at a wedding like and then like follow-up question being like do you make other biz i don't know like I'm someone someone help me do you have business cards you could be like

so are you down to try long distance and then I think that's funny yeah but like or okay then then just be like when are you visiting New York right or like like really I would just like to get drinks or you know just like meat okay what if can really, I would just like to get drinks or, you know, just like meat. Okay. What if, oh no, I was just going to say, I mean,

we, we recommend this a lot, but like, do we go the old, like send a spot or like drop the name of a spot you want to go to? he lives in Philly.

It's like, the living in Philly is a very important note that we need to consider. Are you going to Philly for any purposes? I mean, I don't have plans to,

but I could at any, any weekend. Okay. I do think you need to philly for any purposes i mean i don't have plans to but i i could any any weekend okay i do think you need to be less excited about him i'm just saying you don't know him and i can i can see it you're like i you're like i could go any weekend no you can't you're very busy even if you're right you know yeah and i'm i you listen i get it it's only been six months try to have fun with this. Really? Like this guy, like as Kit said, has a lot of potential. Like there's, I could go through a lot. I could spend the next 20 minutes making some fairly accurate guesses on like bad habits. This guy might have, you know, because we all have them, you know, read that everyone's annoying section.

Everyone, but everyone, every guy that's public on social media there's cringe stuff to say yeah 100 do you like dancing yeah i like okay maybe this is like too high key for like a first date but something like be like bummed i missed you on the dance floor like would you like you want to go out this weekend like there won't be an open bar and like two people promising eternal love but like you know like whatever like something like to kind of like reference the wedding but be like let's make plans i don't know no that's too intense that's like a love story i feel like i think you almost have to like throw grantee under the bus isn't it yeah that's what i was thinking yeah or like i just i kind of think we should facetime them i i would either hit the FaceTime or like if you're,

if you happen to be going to Pittsburgh at any point, this is a person that like, if you're going to visit Philly and you already have plans, Hey, I'm going for this game this weekend. If you're around, what if she sends him a text? That's like,

there's an open roster spot for like a Philly guy. I'm curious, like make it give him some fuck boy energy okay you know you're like you're basically saying that like there's an open roster spot for like to have a hookup in philly and you're like willing to try him out something along those lines i don't know is that your vibe i mean not really yeah again i don't i'm not saying you do this i'm just like you're clearly not that's kind of it's it's the joke it's just it's gonna get him it's gonna get him to reply and what i'm you know because like i hey my aunt introduced you like when you're in new york let's

get a drink he just might be like i don't know what this is someone randomly sends a text and and says that shit i'm assuming they're kidding But I want to meet the person who came up with that line. Yeah. That's the premise. You could be like, so when do you want to meet the rest of my family? Yeah, that's not bad. I like that. It's got to be a little bit outrageous.

Okay. You know? I think so. I actually, I kind of like that. I do like that. I think that would be, like, if I got that text, I would respond. I think that would be funny. Well, if he doesn't, then fuck him again.

Yeah. If this guy doesn't, like you, when you send this text, you know, there's other people calling for texting office hours. You're like, oh, let's, is he going to like hang on the phone? We'll see if he replies. Not you. You're like, you just, there is no wondering. He has every reason not to reply.

We're trying to give you like like come up with a reason that makes him like go like you know what fuck it i'm bored let's see where this goes like that's that's what we're trying to because he has every reason you're just a strange person who like aunt said yeah you know so it's fine too i'm glad she was just being nice yeah it's totally fine this is fun i think that that would be a good text because then also it gives him the opportunity to be like, oh, I'm coming to New York this weekend or whatever. So that you guys can make like an actual plan.

So do we like that better than randomly FaceTiming? Because I'm curious that we just try it just to see what happens. I feel like pull out the random FaceTime later. A little bit later. Like let's get a text convo going and then pull out the random FaceTime. Always a good one to throw in there. I do like that. All right.

So we're going to go with when do you want to meet the rest of my family? Yeah. So when do you want to meet the rest of my family? I like it. When do I send that? Like, what time of day? Does it matter? This evening.

Yeah. Like, five, six. Like, he's probably home, you know, chill night. Is there a follow-up? Like, when do you want to meet the rest of my family? And then, like, a joke that goes, like, where? What? LOL.

Yeah, to, like, bring it back to my aunt. Yeah. He will remember, but. No exclamation points, no question marks. Nojis so when yeah no emojis so when do you want to meet the rest of my family lol lowercase on the lol very particular got it i can do that later today nothing when that's fine yeah now at what point is more assumptive you need to start it out with so so so okay so at what point or so when yeah so when yeah so when do you want to meet the rest of my family that's it that's what we're going with like yeah you've decided but like dot dot dot after the so no or

just okay the energy is he has to he should it's he's stupid not to yeah that's the energy you're putting out there it's just like you're insane not to reply obviously and we understand this is just a fun crazy thing but like yeah when you're when you're speaking to him and we were texting him you want him to read it as i i have to respond this person is like super confident and like they're like that you know what i'm saying like not like please like me it's like you're stupid not to right yeah yeah yeah all right let us know what happens please dm me if he responds when he responds okay um and let us know in addition to dming kit um i will and do not let this bother you at all if he doesn't reply i really have no

expectations i'm it's just it's been i've just started you know getting back into like the dating scene so it's that's the fun keep referencing the book uh thank you for reading it i really appreciate it and tell all your friends awesome i will thank you all right take care bye how's it going hey what's what's your name? My name is Paige and I'm 28. How can we help Paige? So a couple of weeks ago, I matched with a guy on a dating app who happens to be my first boyfriend, first kiss, first date from 15 years ago. Yeah, this is fun. All right. Fun. You caught our attention. So we matched. Obviously, I swiped just because I know him. We've been friends on social media for 15 years. We went

to the same high school, all that. We've never just really talked. We've liked each other's pictures every now and then. So whatever. So I swiped because I knew him. And so we started talking and he was like, like well let's go get drinks well I couldn't tell from the text messages like if it was a date if it was just us catching up well it ended up being a date because I got a kiss at the end so that answered that question uh and it was really good like we stayed out we talked till 5 a.m and then the next I guess the same morning at like 8 a.m he texted me and the texts were flirty. I think I sent those in like they were really flirty but then he didn't talk to me for over a day. He didn't respond and

that's when I wrote it and I was like okay well this is kind of weird and so then he did text back and things have kind of changed. I guess his dynamic or whatever was different. The texts were shorter. Well, then some stuff happened. Um, and I was actually in his area, uh, his part of town. I said, Hey, like, I'm going to be in your, in your area. He was like, cool, let's hang out. So we hung out and we talked like talking. It was great. We caught up again for multiple hours and he was like, well, let's hang out again in a couple of days. So we hung out to watch a show at my place this time. And mind you, I'm getting kisses after these dates. So I keep thinking like something is there. But then ever since the last one, he doesn't text me first. And it's not till like eight o'clock at night because I'll text him because I really like

this guy. And then the texts are only like five to 10 text piece. And then I don't hear from him. And I haven't heard from him the last day and a half. But he, at the last time that we saw each other, he said, let's do this every week. Let's watch a show that comes out every week. I was like, yeah, that sounds really good. Cool.

But I just, I can't tell. I don't know. I don't know. I like the guy. We get along on a lot of different levels, not just because we have that history or anything, but I don't know. Like, the guy. We get along on a lot of different levels, not just because we have that history or anything, but I don't know. Do I text him? All right. I think it's communication hour. There's got to be a talk. And it's honestly great because you guys have this history already.

So you're comfortable communicating with him, I think, a little bit more than if this was happening with a new guy, you'd probably be like, oh, I don't know if I even want to like bring this up. But now you kind of have the out because you can be like, you know, this is weird for me. Like it's bringing up a bunch of memories like from when we were younger and all of these feelings are coming up for me. Can we do a dramatic reading? I made it, had to stop for gas on the way. LOL. LOL.

All good. And well, I'm glad you made it. Home safely. Smiley emoji face. I'm still kind of in shock. Three clap. Three emoji faces. Ooh.

Emojis. You're using too many emojis. I know. Okay. There's a lot of emojis in this. He doesn't too. So. Yeah.

Of what, LOL? Of meeting up after all this time. LOL blows my mind. Yeah, LOL, I'm a bit in shock. We talked outside the bar for like three hours. More emojis. Shit, me too. I was not expecting that, LOL.

I had a very nice time though. I had a lot of fun catching up with you, emoji. I did too. it's so funny like reading these texts sorry if the kiss at the end there was a bit much i just kind of wanted to do it for the last couple of hours there lol really honestly i had been trying to figure out if you were into me or not so i definitely didn't mind it at all lol lol well i'm glad we did all right so first note there for the rest of your life no matter how this goes never say i didn't think you would like me or i'm surprised you liked me or oh really i mean if you think that that's fine do not tell him that you know what i'm saying like i was also a couple

couple beers in that's fine but just i'm just still giving you the note i'm saying like i was also a couple couple beers in that's fine but just i'm just still giving you the note i'm not listen if you fuck up it's not the end of the world but going forward please like have the you know more of the yeah what took you so long kind of energy rather than the i can't believe you like me energy okay all right and then uh and then you said me okay me too then you reached out. Good afternoon. Hey, hey, sorry for not getting back to you yesterday. It was kind of a weird day. LOL. Why are you guys LOLing all the time? Yeah, you guys are really laughing.

That's us though. Like the entire time, whether we're talking or texting, I kid you not. That's just how it is. Okay. But between those, it was like a day and a half where he was just like, it was a weird day. I was like, um, okay. Cause we've talked before about my last relationship ended because of the lack of communication. I would go days without texting me.

And so this kind of made me mad. I was like, we just talked about this. Here we are. Yeah. But still early. I want you to stop saying I like him. You can say I like him so far or I'm interested in him or this is exciting, you know, but you know so little about this guy. And I think you're doing the very common thing that we've all done is that you had a really nice date. So fun to talk to someone and like end of the night. Yeah, but they also like, there's always going to be those first love feelings there.

Sure. Which is risky to like, to, yeah. But do you, are you saying that as like a beware of that or, or is that? I'm just saying like, it makes you feel way further along in a relationship later in life because you are remembering what it was like when you first met. And it's a great story. I mean, you're probably thinking there's a part way deep down or maybe way deep down. Maybe it's in the forefront of your brain. But if this works out, how romantic and fun and what a great thing to talk about at our

wedding, shit like that. It's just you're susceptible to that. Right. And so, you know, it does, it sounds like things are going fairly well. Like I think early on in dating, the thing that you should pay most attention to is consistency in progress. Right. And, you know, and even if that consistency is slow and even if that progress is slow, as long as that happens, you you know and i think right now it sounds like what i'm hearing i could be wrong but like you have a certain expectations of how consistent and how fast he should go and he's not meeting that and you're getting in your head as a result because i i'm not seeing or hearing like a lot of reasons to be like oh you know he doesn't

the guy made a plan to hang out with you on a weekly basis to watch something. I don't think a lot of guys do that if they're not interested. It's because of his work schedule. He works overnights and then he has like, but he has a six hour break in the middle. And those two nights that we hung out, I just happened to be off the next day. So it worked out, but we haven't really hung out on a weekend when I'm off kind of thing. So it's almost like, I don't know. I don't know what he does on the weekends.

How many times have you been out with him? Once out in public and then once at his house, once at my house. So, okay. And how long ago did you guys match? Like three weeks. Yeah, it's still pretty early. Yeah. I feel like if you didn't't if you just met this guy

for the first time if you just match with this guy in a dating app and you weren't really liking his like communication style is just like pissing you off like it sounds like it is kind of then you would probably just like move on but i think this is a great opportunity because you guys have the history that you can be like okay should, should we try dating again? Yeah. I mean, I don't know because just when we're in person, it goes so well. I know he's dating other people because he's told me that and I think that's what worries me the most.

Yeah. But you have no reason. I get why you're worried, but you really have no reason to worry. It sounds like you have definitely decided that you liked him before you actually should. I guess. And I know you like aspects about him. Well, I mean, you've only, you've, you've, you reconnected him after 15 years, three weeks ago, and you've been on two dates. So unless you think there's not much to

him, then you clearly have a lot to learn about him, you know? And so I would love you for you to focus more on, on the stuff that you have yet to learn rather than fixate on like, it was great that you had one good date and that you have, you had good banter and that you have yet to learn rather than fixate on like it was great that you had one good date and that you have you had good banter and that that's something to build on that's awesome but right now and he's been it sounds like he's been fairly up front i mean he's told you he's been dating okay that's not everyone's that up front it sounds and he made some plan like this whole like what that thing you said like let's do this every week what was that again yeah there's a show that comes out and he was like we we should hang out every day on this week or every week on this day kind of thing.

When the show comes out, we should watch it. That's a plan to hang out with you, you know? And so have you guys hooked up yet? No. Okay. So don't keep, keep not hooking up for a while and like use that time to see if they follow through with hanging out and keep getting to know him. You know, right now you're focusing on what you're not getting rather than what you're getting. You know, like you said, like, well, he's not texting me on the weekends.

You know, I get that, like, right. You know, there's this idea that you're like, well, I'm going to go date and I like him. And I've been you before, right? I'll meet you. You're just like, well, you know what I'd like? I'd like for us to text all day long. And I'd love for us to play this or that, you know, and I'd love for him to, like, check check in and i get that but right right now that's not where he's at that doesn't mean he can't get there and you know it doesn't mean he doesn't like you he just he's more like he's probably

thinking well at a nice time he might not even be thinking about the fact that you met 15 years ago maybe that's not nostalgic for him at all i don't know but he brings it up a lot more than i do okay there's no way like i'm just your first love you said he was your first kiss my first kiss my first date my first boyfriend but i wasn't his so i think that may be why i'm overthinking it because it was a first for me yeah not a first for him you really gotta like you gotta start fresh with this guy in your head too like how you the how you met could really fuck you up. Yeah. Yeah.

But you're also being like met with the reality of who he is now. And yeah, again, you just have to decide if you like that person. I like him a lot more than back then. Yeah. Like you'll always love that that version of him that's in your head and may it might honestly like i have this with my first love too where like every few years we'll like go see each other again and it never works out because like that he's just like a little character in my head of like what young love is the first love very hard to recreate yeah i just don't even is there a text to send this guy right now i don't know because

i and one part of me i really wanted to just text him and be like where do you see this going but i know that that's not something i should do because i don't want to freak him out just because i'm overthinking things or if i and and if you've ever listened to this show even even if you are ready you don't ask you just you would say hey i'd like to see more of you or i want x y or z you don't ask. You just, you would say, hey, I'd like to see more of you or I want X, Y, or Z. You don't, you don't ever ask him what he thinks because that just immediately tells him that they're in control, that you're waiting on them, that you've already decided. It means a bunch of things. And you saying what you want, while he might not want it, just sounds attractive.

It just sounds confident. It's just like, this is what I want. But anyways, I don't think you're there yet either. I don't think you should be able to decide that now it's too early yeah yeah and the other thing was if i were to text him and like form a date that's not watching this show i don't know if i should do that or not i like that down like on a weekend rather than just you have a date you'd want to do sort of uh there's this bar that like uh downtown in our city that they have a bunch of board games you can go and you can drink and you can have food you can play board games

so our first date was at an arcade the beercade kind of thing so that's cute so pick that and then i want you to ask a ton of questions like like your next date should almost it should he should feel like you're interrogating him a little bit not a lot but i really want you to try to find out something surprising about him that isn't like talking about you know i don't know what you guys talked about your first date but i think you know be afraid pretend he's hiding like we all we're all hiding things you know in a sense and get him to admit something that you have to be like okay ick not, this is such a good strategy. I've never like taken this on, but then like you are so in power. Yeah. I mean, he's kind of admitted something that's not really the greatest thing that I would

want to hear, but that he's cheated on a couple people. Oh my. Yeah. A couple. A couple. Not just one, but a couple. I would get more curious if I were you and ask some more questions. I think your next date, that's a big red flag.

I know. And what were your follow-up questions to him in mid-air? On one of them I asked, I was like, why? And he said, well, because she cheated on me first. That was a terrible answer on his part. What? That did concern you. It did. Did you ask him, how do you feel feel about that how does that make you feel about yourself now yeah i i did ask him i was

like so would you do that now or was just that's just a thing because that's what your dynamic was with her and he was like no i don't think i would ever do it now and i was like you don't think or you don't know he was like it would depend on the person that i'm with okay that's the honest answer he's capable of cheating again i I'm telling you right now. Yeah. It doesn't matter who the other person is that you're with. It comes from insecurities. He chose to cheat on his past partner. It had nothing to do with whether she cheated on him or not. So his answer was, I think revenge is a suitable way to communicate my problems in a relationship. Makes sense. And listen, I'm not saying run. I don't know this guy, but that's definitely a major red flag. And if nothing

else, it should get you to like pull back on the, you just wanting him to like you and being pissed he's not texting you on the weekends and focusing on all the things that you're not getting from him rather than focus on like, I need to know more about this guy before I waste more energy and more of my time on him because it's valuable. And I'm really curious about this cheating thing. And so I have other questions. And like I said before, that your next date should be like your goal is to find out another thing about him. What other annoying thing can I get him to admit to? Deep dark secrets. Yeah. Yeah. A little trauma dump session. If he gets a little defensive, be like, hey, hey listen man we we all have our warts i'm just trying to find out what yours are put them on put them on his heels like

most people aren't doing that this guy probably early on is very much in power and control he's making moves he's just like let's plan a you know like let's watch movies and you're just like and he's used to people getting excited for for him just giving a little bit of his time to people. But if you start really like, you know, interrogating him and like, without like, you know, just be like, Hey, I just want to, you know, my time's valuable. I just want to know, you know, I'm curious about you. If he gets defensive, then if he can't answer these questions, he's either incapable or uninterested and that should matter to you, you know? But like someone who's really at least interested in you will be like, you know i just this person deserves my honesty i'll tell them i want to be

vulnerable and keep asking why well why did you do this or why does it what does this mean to you now you know you know what's a good opener to that session sort of questions okay just randomly sure just be like you know what i i haven't we haven't learned a lot about each other maybe you can make it one of those like games of like you know there's like what's the worst thing there's those games called yeah like a random what's like biggest regret yeah regrets what's a really bad habit you have you know and he's like why are you asking those questions i'm like hey listen we all we're all annoying so i'm just trying to figure out i'm trying to figure out if i can live with your annoying okay that's fair. Like it's weird where guys are fucked up.

But like we respond to shit like that, especially if we like you, you know, like we want to prove ourselves to you. It's when we feel like we have nothing to prove. We get bored and complacent. So the more you thought of that. Yeah. The more you ask and the more you like if you know if he's worth your time and when they can't answer those questions anymore, it either means they're either like they don't want, that means they don't want you to find out who they really are. And then that means that's when you run.

Yeah, I feel like he's just going to be very open about it. I don't think he can hide anything. Well, good. Then do that. Then you'll learn about him. But also listen to his answers. Don't just get like excited that he's being honest. Right. You know, oh, he told me he's cheated. Like, what an honest guy, like excited that he's being honest. Right. You know, oh, he told me he's cheated. Like what an honest guy, you know, listen to his answers. And then, and then, and then when you get done, reevaluate the conversation you had after the date, not, you know, listen and to what he's saying. Then yeah, shoot him a text and see if he wants to hang out and make an exception. Like I would love for him to like plan something outside

of when he's slotted you in because I'm worried that he's slotted you into his schedule and I need him to be able to like adjust his schedule for someone he's willing to prioritize. That's kind of my thought too.

I was like, it's kind of weird that you just kind of put me in there on your break kind of thing rather than taking a weekend day or something totally you just have to change like right now at first you have to change your mindset before you do any of this stuff and realize and have these like actual conversations with yourself it's like

i don't care how we met i don't care that we're connected i don't care it's my first date but like he's in he has changed in 15 years and i need to figure out how and what i i like a lot of things i've i've had some fun with them i'm this is cool this is exciting but also the guy's a cheater so yeah i need to learn more but i do like what i know so far but let's find out some more stuff and have some fun with it you know i'll try all right find out how he's gross he's definitely gross men are gross yeah i have no doubt he's got bad habits he's got ics i know he's got bad habits. He's got icks. I know he's got bad habits. I know that. So I want you to focus on that if you could, please.

And the board games date, I really like that. That's great. That idea. And you can do that while playing games. Yeah. That's a great date for conversation. We don't play games, but we do play board games. That's true. And when you ask him out, you can say, I know this great place where we can play games,

but not with each other or Yeah. Or something like that. Oh, that's clever. Yeah. Like, what do you mean? I'm like, I was, you know, something like that. See if you can take a joke. All right. Okay.

Keep us posted on this one. I really want to find out what you were able to learn and where this go. Okay. Yeah. Me too. Think of yourself as like this detective now. I'm terrible about that. Things you do in person in a conversation with him, not on the internet.

Right. Do it to their faces. FBI agent. Yes. To their faces. Far more effective and intimidating in the best possible way. I need to, I feel like I need to do this.

Report back, Kit. Yeah. I get so choked up in person though, so I think that's going to be my problem. You can do it. They're just talking. Like pretend you're interviewing him.

All you have to do is think about, you have to think about how, no, but yeah, but you're interviewing them. It's not the other way around. You're in power. Yeah. You could even like say that

if you felt really awkward about it, you could even be like, okay, can I interview you for a few minutes? Yeah. After further review, I don't want to judge you, but you have cheated. I have some more questions.

And then you go Barbara Walters on pull up pull up the notes app yeah yeah serious i truly i mean have some fun with it you know i think you you have nothing to lose here and you you think you have a ton to lose and you don't yeah i think thank you right i've just been single for so long and then he came along and i was like ah i hear you that's interesting so you're still only 28 which i know in your head is not what you think or feel but i promise and i don't know if you got this book yet but i'm telling you it might i might i read it i wrote it for you i actually did order it so did you get it yet no not yet okay well read that first and then and then go on a date with them okay might change your mind i think you're gonna be great you're gonna be great um but the fact that you have been single for a long

time and you're getting a little anxious about it it's good that you recognize it it's good to name it but like don't negotiate with yourself what with what you know you deserve just because you're just getting a little bored go on a date because you're bored be like hey i'm bored fuck it i'll go on a date but just don't have low expectations you know i've gone on date dates that i was bored my friends would be like why are you on a date i'm like i don't know it's fucking wednesday who gives a shit yeah like but like low stakes i wasn't like oh my god this has to go well i was like i don't know whatever it gets me out of the house you could do some more low you could throw some more low stakes like dating app dates in there too yeah Yeah. Yeah. I've tried, uh, continuing to talk to people on dating apps and everything,

but just, I hate dating apps. I know. Yeah. And just take breaks sometimes too. Yeah. No one, take breaks.

I delete them. All right. You're going to, I know you're going to be fine, but, uh, as far as this guy goes, we have a lot to learn.

So go, go find out and report back. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Okay. All right. Take care. All right. Thanks. Later. goes we have a lot to learn so go go find out and report okay sounds good all right okay all right take care all right later kit thanks for coming thanks what a pleasure you were great so fun so much fun to talk with you please let my audience know where they can find you uh follow you any other projects you're working on now is the time to at kit keenan on instagram and tiktok and follow me make my recipes tag me in your remakes are you making recipes yeah you're cooking yes that's awesome

go on because like this is not toxic content this is like wholesome yeah no i'm gonna go check it out now get in the kitchen honestly turn your phone off after that get in the kitchen okay make something i love that yeah follow kit she's doing great stuff thanks for listening guys next week tino finally we're finally doing it he's coming in on sunday to record it's dropping next next week and uh should be interesting bye All right, everyone, if you're hearing this, I need your help right now between October 11th and the 13th. You can vote for the Vow Files for Pop Podcast of 2022 for the People's Choice Awards. This award means a lot to me. I want to be able to share it with all of you. I love you guys. And me, Allie, and Amanda would be super grateful if you take the time to vote for the follow files over the next three days. You

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