The Viall Files - E488 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 2

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers, to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show. We bring on our first caller to get an update on how she is doing, finding herself stuck in a FWB situation. Changing their relationship to a friendship, our caller wonders if this can truly be a Platonic situation or if lingering feelings will serve as a problem. Our next caller gives an update after feeling burnt out and frustrated in the current situation she was in. Finding the confidence in herself to leave the situationship, she’s now dating a new guy that makes her feel like her best self. Our next caller was having a tough time dealing with her mother-in-law and the drama she created. Finding a lot of insight in Nick’s advice, our caller learns to try to implement the principle of having a relationship with her, without enabling her bad behavior. Our last caller was from a texting office hour, where we got an update on her wanting to shoot her shot with a guy from her gym. Will she find success or heartbreak by asking this guy out? We then get some email updates from past callers! We read off updates about attending multiple weddings, moving in, and a dog custody battle.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 418 Ask Nick - How Do I Find Love In Hookup Culture? Episode Number: 448 Ask Nick - I Want The Courthouse He Wants The Big Wedding Episode Number: 415 Ask Nick - Am I Alone Because I’m Picky? Episode Number: 462 Going Deeper with Cheryl Burke - Divorce, DWTS plus Green Line Test Original Episode numbers for read updates: Episode Number: 418 Ask Nick - How Do I Find Love In Hookup Culture? Episode Number: 389 Going Deeper – Deepti & Shaina from Love is Blind Season 2 Episode Number: 435 Going Deeper with Brian Austin Green and Sharna Burgess “If it’s meant to be, slowing down won’t hurt it.” Please nominate us for People’s Choice Awards The Pop Podcast of 2022 by going to https://www.votepca.com/pop-culture/the-pop-podcast-of-2022 and typing in “The Viall Files” where you can nominate up to 25 times a day!  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rothy’s: Find your new favorite shoes and get ready to be asked “Are those Rothy’s?” Plus, get $20 off your first purchase at http://www.Rothys.com/VIALL. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to a very special another edition of the update show all things vile files Nick, texting office hours. You guys loved the first one so much. We are bringing it back. If you guys continue to like this, we'll continue to reevaluate and maybe bring more to you,

but only if you love it. But it turns out you guys really loved the first one. So it's our update episode. We're happy to bring it to you. You guys loved the first one, so here is our second update episode keep giving us feedback if you keep listening to it we'll keep evaluating putting more out don't forget obviously my book is out don't take cx have your birthday if you haven't

pre-ordered it or gotten it already get the book the reviews are in everyone loves it it's amazing so yeah we got a handful of updates that we're going to read we got some people calling in we're going to start with a caller first let Let's start with a caller first. Anything else, ladies, you want to add? Just want to say hi? Do we have time? I know. It's already such a long.

Just say hi. Hey. Hi. I don't know. Well, you guys are reading. Yeah, Allie and Amanda do the dramatic readings for us. Thank you. Yeah.

All of that Catholic lecturing is really paying off. Did you lecture as well? Oh, hell yeah. You too. Sorry, I shouldn't have said hell. What does that mean? You know when you say the first reading from the book of John? You don't say it's the first reading. A reading from the book of John? Like, come on. Also, it wouldn't be a

first reading from John. That's New Testament. Come on, Nick. Hey, student here. You're going to get flamed. From the Catholics? Yeah. You said you were a catechist into your mid-30s. Where have you been? I haven't been to church. You're making him blush.

You're really attacking his faith. Do you go to church? No. Anyway. Let's sing number 700, The Summons, number 700. I think religion is like something that a lot of, maybe it's just like the social area I'm in, but it just feels like a lot of people like maybe don't consider religion, which is totally valid. And I get that everybody has a lot of experience, especially other queer people maybe have had negative ones.

But I've been diving into some Jewish community and it's great. You're digging it? All right. I dig it. All right. No, we love the community aspect of it. Anyway You're digging it? All right. I dig it. All right. No, we love the community aspect of it. Anyway, let's get to our updates. Welcome back, Hannah. How are you? Thanks for having me. Good. How are you? I'm good. Good to have you. So last time you called,

you had a story. Let's play a little flashback of your call and what I said. I've been friends with benefits with this guy for over a year now. I've only slept with him. I've gone on dates with other guys, but I've only been sleeping with him. He recently let me know he started sleeping with other girls, which I was okay with because he's single. How did the friends with benefits start? Did you guys define that relationship? Yeah, we matched on Bumble and we hung out. And at the time, we both weren't ready for anything serious. So we just said friends with benefits.

That's what we agreed on at the time. And he's always been very honest about it, very open. I ended up catching feelings and I kind of denied it for a while to him and to myself because I knew that's not what he wanted. And then we just went on a trip across the country together as friends with benefits. And that was after you developed feelings? Oh yeah. Like i'm pretty sure i'm in love with him things are already ruined right and that's what you need to say to him what we had was fun we enjoyed we had this mutual friends with benefits situation for a period of time it worked for us because we were both in a place where we didn't have relationships at some point because we hung

out a lot and we were intimate and had fun and took road trips and experienced things and got to know each other, those feelings evolved and changed. Mind change first is sort of developing feelings for you. And it sounds like maybe you've learned to like, you know, like things about me, which is, you know, nice to hear. And that is what, and so what you guys used to have, it no longer exists anymore regardless. So he's, he's being delusional to, you know, I wouldn't tell him he's being delusional, but you could point it out without calling him delusional that like what we had, it was fun. I'm glad we had it. But now, because I feel the way I do, and it seems like you feel the way you do,

we're never going back to that anymore. We can't pretend. It was nice to have no strings, but I know I can't pretend, and you shouldn't want to pretend to not feel whatever it is you're feeling. It's hard to mask our feelings. This is the new world we're living in. Well, we had a good run. That was over. And now you just have to make a choice like a grown-up and when he makes that choice it's not the choice i want to hear i should just cut him off yes right yep okay and what happened so i'd like to say that i listened to your advice and that i did everything you told me to do but that's just not true it took until my episode aired for me to

really realize that like i needed to get it together and get out of there how much time between when you called in and the episode aired a few months it was a few months okay yeah i think like a month or two yeah and so i feel like for the sake of our crawlers we should do it faster because i think when they listen to the episode, let me ask, when you listen to the episode of that, like, did you hear it differently than when we talked when you first called in? I did hear a lot differently. And also the guys that I spoke about found it. He was on a mission and he found it.

How did he know? And like, did he know, did you mention that you called it and talked about him i did only because i know some of his friends listen and it was like i felt like it was fairly obvious and he was on a mission and he found it and he listened and he said he gave pretty good advice you should have listened to him and i was like that's kind of dickish for him to say yeah he um you used a reference where you were saying guys like having their options of cereal and um he said i do like having different cereal options so you should listen to him and i was like hey yeah so i mean i i can respect the honesty i appreciate his honesty and where were you guys before that though like when before so between you called and then the episode came out were you still

hanging out like was so everything was yeah so he said that to you even while you guys were still like hooking up yeah and i think from the time i did my call until the episode came out he made it even more obvious that he was he never hid that i was an option. He always made it that he liked having options. He liked, didn't want to be tied down. He liked being able to do what he wanted. And in my head, I was like, okay, well, he tells me I'm his number one option. So that's good enough for me. Like I'm always the first person he calls.

Which looking back on it now, I'm like, what was my problem? But I think in my head, I thought I could change it. And I full on admit I was falling in love with him. So I didn't want to let it go. What are your thoughts now? Like, where are you now with him? And what did you learn from this experience? And what do you want to do differently going forward, if anything? So right now, we are friends that do not sleep together. I think over the last two years, we created such a good friendship that it was kind of hard to let it go. And I had a talk and I said, listen, I was like, I'm done being your option. I'm done sleeping with you. But I

value you as a person, as a friend. And I hope to continue this friendship in a way where it's just platonic and that's all it is and it took me a while to get over him and lose those feelings for him and kind of like not have such strong feelings for him but I sat myself down and genuinely said okay one he likes saying you're an option two would you ever be able to trust him in a relationship like would I ever be able to trust him in a relationship? Would I ever be able to move forward with a committed relationship and trust him knowing the duration of our relationship? He was sleeping with multiple other women and I said, no, I would always feel insecure with myself. And I think I didn't want that. That was something I just didn't want. And moving forward,

I'm nowhere near ready to be in a relationship after that. Cause it kind of, it messed me up. It really did. And it's hard to meet a guy and listen to them talk and, you know, say all these things. And then they finish that with, I'd like to think, take things slow. I'm not looking for anything serious or a relationship. And my head, I'm like, well, that's a red flag. Got to go. But in their heads, they're like, I just want to take things slow. I don't want to jump into anything. That doesn't mean I necessarily want to just jump into bed with you either. So it's really messed me up, honestly.

No, I'm sorry to hear that. But maybe in the future when you are on these dates and you are talking with a guy and he gives you the whole, like, I want to take it slow. There's nothing wrong with taking it slow right right but i get what you're saying that like hearing that is a potential red flag so like maybe in the future you could just say well you know i've had i've dated other men who use that term and to them dating slow means they just want to date around and being a situationship like i like taking things slow you can say like I don't want to rush into a relationship I think like I want to take time to get to know people but I am looking to eventually be in a relationship so like what

is taking it slow mean to you yeah I think that would be a great question to start asking people if when they say that don't like that you know that way it gets them it gives them an opportunity to answer right you're not assuming you're not like jumping to conclusions you're just saying well what does that mean to you and get them to say it because chances are if they are just being a fuck boy they won't really you know they'll be like well you know i don't really know i mean i guess just like slow you know they'll just say that right you know like trying to get to know someone and and then you say well that's cool but like again i i well i've i'm enjoying getting to know you, but like, you know, I would say something, I like taking it slow, but I also like moving forward, you know? And when I'm not interested in, it is going so slow that we're not

going anywhere. Right. So as long as things progress, like I'm down for slow and you would say, I mean, that's like an appropriate thing to say, even on a first date, if the conversation comes up where like, I just like, I'm not really looking for anything. And you would say, I mean, that's like an appropriate thing to say, even on a first date, if the conversation comes up where like, I just like, I'm not really looking for anything. And when someone says, I'm not really looking for anything, then you say, well, I am, I am looking for something, you know? And then you just politely and calmly just say, well, maybe this is not a, maybe we're looking for two different things. True story. Nellie and I were in New York and there's this street. When we first met, we went, I love Prince Street Peach. That's a staple in New York. And across the street, they have a Rothy's store. I looked through their store and I thought to myself, these people make all these

amazing things out of recyclable plastic. It is incredible from their handbags to their shoes. It is insane. You would never guess it. They're just high quality pieces. I was looking at their storefront. It was truly, like, truly, I was blown away. I think sometimes people hear that too, of like, what a cool concept. They use recyclable water bottles and they probably think like, oh, they're stiff or you have to break them in. And I will say, like, I was so shocked when I got my pair of Barathies because my foot went into it and I've never had a flat just be so like malleable. Like it just fully went around my foot as if it was I've never had a flat just be so like malleable. Like it just fully went around my foot as if it was just like fabric or if it was just like cotton when I know

it's not because it's durable and it stays looking amazing, but it just fully molds to your foot. And it's the softest actual like flat or shoe you will ever have. It feels like your favorite pair of shoes that just know how your foot bends and shapes. And not only are you not giving anything up in the break-in department, again, the thing looking at their storefront, I was like, these are just beautiful items. They're high quality. The loafers I have, I wear them with suits. Suits, you know?

People give compliments. It's incredible. They're doing so many great things. Also, People Magazine named them the best flat for their first ever style awards in 2021. Best flats. It's incredible what they're doing. And you can be a part of the Rothy's revolution. So if you're looking for comfort, durability, style, and washability, Rothy's has you covered in all those departments. Find new favorite shoes and get ready to be asked, are those Rothy's? Plus, get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Another thing that's like, as of recent,

I went out on a date and it's the whole time, I think that's how I knew I wasn't ready to date was because I was wishing it was sure well you know when you said you're still friends with them I mean like listen I don't want to tell you who to be friends with but I I think I think you can I think my guess is you have friends other friends and and oftentimes when we decide to want to be friends with someone it's just a consolation prize to not getting exactly what we want and what you wanted with him as a relationship. And so you thought, well, I can just be friends with them. I won't sleep with them, so I won't give them what he wants. I'm taking

something from him. That seems even. But like, you know, your heart is your heart. And maybe you are completely indifferent to him and maybe you are completely over it. But like my guess is like, you know, probably not. And to be friends with him, you're always giving your ego an opportunity to, you know, to make you feel worse about the situation, to tell you like, oh, well, he's not as good as the one you could have had, but you couldn't land or something like that. And that's your ego, like just not making you feel good. And so listen, I think you might make life a little easier on yourself in the long run by, you know, not trying to be friends with them. And listen, like I'm not,

at this point, I don't think you need to like cut them off or block them. I would just make yourself kind of unavailable to him. Like how available are you still to him? Not really. We live in different States now so it's like we don't see each other we don't it's just like we talk every once in a while what value is he really bringing to your life honestly there's not there's not and i know that and but i think like you said like in my head like i can't have him in the way that i want him so i'm settling to have him as a friend because i love him you you love him like like i care about him i love him he's a great person he's a good friend i yes and so i'm settling to keep him in my life as a friend because i don't

want to lose that person i don't you think you can care about people without saying i love him i mean i get what you're saying like we're kind of maybe getting into semantics or whatever. And like a lot of people, you know, will be very like, you know, with friends, like, you know, my girlfriend likes to like, you know, she's very expressive and she, you know, like with her friends, she's very quick to say, I love you. And when it comes to her friends,

like it means something different and that's fine. But like, you're, again, it's like, you're trying to do that with someone you used to like want to romantically be in love with. So how can you like emotionally tell the difference when you say even to me in this moment, well, I love him. You know, like how and how internally can you really separate? Well, I love him as a friend and he's a nice person with, I love him, you know? And like, are you really, are you really able to separate the two? Because I don't doubt he's a nice guy. I don't doubt he, you've had some nice moments. I don't doubt you care about him. And like, I love like my guy friends or like, you know, like, hey man, I love you. Like, I love everyone in this room, you know, like we're a team and we do great work

together. But like, you know what I'm saying? That's very different than the type of love I express with someone like, you know, my girlfriend. And you're trying to pretend that you can say, I love you to him or say, I love you. I love him. Like you're talking to me. I love him as if like that somehow is just as platonic and just as like not as meaningful as what it used to mean when you

you called and said but i love him like what should i do i don't i want to keep i want to be you know what i'm saying so i yeah you're playing games i think i think you're still playing games with yourself a little bit i mean i think i am too and i and like that's what i'm trying to like work on and get out of because on one hand like you're right am i mixing the two up 100 i believe so and then on the other hand i think i'm just so stuck in my head on what he said to me like where i'm like well what if there's still that hope like one night what do you mean what did he say when he called you an option yeah and then when he followed up with but i love you as a friend yeah i mean what did you just hear the i love you part or something i think i think i think

that's what it is i think like he calls me an option and he makes it very obvious and then i'm like oh but he loves me as a friend so it's like i'm sure he does care about you for sure in his own way that is not a priority at all yeah how much would he really go out of his way to like be there for you? I don't think, I think the important question is what value is he really adding your life? And you answered that, which is like, honestly, not much. And so to you, for you to be able to admit that is you acknowledging that you're just like, whatever relationship this is, you're still like driving force and you're still kind of holding on to hope. And when it comes to this particular

person i think you got to let go of the hope and just accept that you know it was what it was it's hopefully a learning opportunity but like you really need to like just let it go you know and you can just you don't doesn't mean you have to talk shit you know it doesn't mean you just be like yeah you're a nice guy but like we moved on so i i would just when he reaches i wouldn't reach out to him anymore and if he reaches out to you i wouldn't be quick to respond right at all yeah i actually wouldn't respond at all and then he gets like oh like are you just you know and you just say you know like obviously you know i think you're a great person i care about you but like being friends with you is not something i i realize that i'm just like not able to do and

and that's okay but you know you're super chill about it. And no matter what he said, yeah, no matter what he says, sort of you, you know, like fighting for you to be in a relationship, which doesn't sound like he's going to do. You just graciously like thank him for being a part of your life and you move on. I think that's what I obviously am working towards and what I need to do. And the chances this episode comes out and I'm still talking to him and then I listen back and I'm like, oh, now it's time. Just like last time. It might happen.

It's up to you. Yeah. I mean, I'm not wasting any of my emotional energy on this guy. Right. It's me. Yeah. And I don't want to be drained by him. You have to see it.

Yeah. You have to see him as a cost, not a reward. Because right now you weirdly like see him as some sort of like reward to be able to talk to him, to be able to see him. Whatever it is you get, you see it internally as like a reward. But what it is in reality is a cost to you. And it's just, you're getting nothing back.

You know, I'm sure you've heard me say that, right? Like you have to be mindful of your energy. And right now you're, if you're not being very mindful of the energy that this relationship is sucking out of you and not replenishing you. Yeah, I know. And I think, I think one of the big things I just need to focus on is that like, once I cut that communication off and once I start talking to him, I just need to put myself in his shoes to where I don't personally think it'll affect him at all. Like I'm just another person in his life and I don't think we have the same, I don't mean as much'll affect him at all. Like I'm just another person in his life

and I don't think we have the same, I don't mean as much to him as he means to me. And so I think I need to view it like that. Like, you know, he's going to be fine and you're going to be the one that's hurting. So just, it's time to like cut it off. You will be fine too. But I mean, you're right, but like, don't sell yourself short and don't put them on a pedestal, you know? And you don't have to regret this. I mean, again, I think you just see it as a, hopefully you see it as something that will be, my hope for you is you see it as a moment where it was a really pivotal time in your life where it was a tough lesson, but a lesson that was valuable that going forward,

you wouldn't waste your energy and time on people who didn't give anything back. And yeah, you are going to go on some bad dates with people who, you know, who you don't like, but you got to stop comparing it to him because he's not great. You know, like these guys you go on dates to aren't great either, maybe for you, but like that's two people, three people, you might have to date many people to find your person and that's okay. You just might have to be a little patient and then take breaks when you get tired. Yeah, I'd be so picky. But you know, there's nothing wrong with picky.

You just have to be patient if you're gonna be picky. How old are you again? Oh, 24. My God, be picky. Just be patient, you know? Yeah. If you find yourself, like if the well's getting dry or you try being less picky for a date or two,

play around with it, have some fun. You know what I'm saying? Try things out, but don't feel bad that you have standards. Like don't feel bad that you are waiting for the right person and, you know, and don't feel bad that like you might be waiting, you know, four or five, six, 10 years. I don't know for someone who can truly make you feel seen, heard and valued for the rest of your life. And in the meantime, in those next 10 years, you can go on some fun dates, have some fun experiences, have fun with friends, take vacations, you know, have a couple of fun hookups, you know, maybe a relationship or two that didn't work out.

I don't fucking know. But in the grand scheme of things, like you're going to be okay. You just have to start prioritizing your feelings, how people make you feel over what your ego wants. Yeah. I think I just need to accept that I do deserve more than what I'm getting and that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay to be disappointed, but don't try to accept the disappointment and move on rather than resist the disappointment and convince yourself that you can be friends and, you're just kind of torturing yourself, you know? It is. And then you go on dates and it's harder and it's harder not to try to compare because you're still, you know, now you're friends with this person that deep down

you're still secretly like wishing you're in a relationship with. And then as friends, they're a pretty good friend. But you can't really separate the difference between being his friend and wanting him to be a romantic partner. So as a friend, when he does nice things and say nice things, you're like, oh, what a great guy. That's literally what I do. And then I just, and like you said, I compare every other person to it and every other situation to it. And I think, and I'm just like, why? Like, I feel like why is people, because I don't think it's just me, just general why do we do that it makes no sense because we want to feel special and validated and there's something you know like again our ego could our egos isn't always a bad thing it helps us bring great things into our life it gives us the standards that you know what we want to be

picked because we want something that's special but feeling special and finding something special can be two different things. And we can be made to feel special by people who aren't really special and who won't really make us feel loved in the long run. They might validate us in the short run. And it's knowing the difference between the two and asking the tough questions. And then accepting that not everyone we like is going to like us back. Accepting that it's just not the case. Not everyone's into us.

We're not everyone's cup of tea, you know? And the more honest we are about who we are and the more authentic we are to people, the less people will like us. More people will love you for being authentic. But like the more specific you are about who you are, like, you know, you won't be as appealing to the masses, so to speak.

But the people who do really like who you are will truly love you won't be as appealing to the masses so to speak but the people who do really like like who you are will truly love you for being your authentic self yes it's like you have to unapologetically be yourself and if that's not enough then sorry and be okay with people not being into that and that's fine but some people will really love it you know and those will be your not only your people you're romantically with but but your truest friends. Right. I think this whole experience has taught me a lot. And talking to you the first time and talking to you this time, I've learned a lot. And I appreciate it. And I think looking back, you can't regret what you didn't do.

But I definitely regret not listening to you the first time around because I feel like I would be in a different place now. the first time around because I feel like I would be in a different place now. Well, take that feeling and try to take this advice now rather than wait till the episode comes out. So it's up to you. You got to hold yourself a little bit more accountable. Right now, you're kind of like, oh, I'm sad. Oh, shucks. Nothing I can do about it i'll just keep you know torturing myself poor me you gotta like you gotta give yourself some tough love and say no to yourself and say no to your like feeling sorry for yourself and just say like gotta get back out there i'm gonna start dating and when i have a bad date i have a bad date i'll move on and look for someone else i won't keep going back into the past and like falsely comparing someone who like quite

isn't that great. You know, they might have good qualities, but for me, they're not that great. Right. You know? Yeah. And I just got to stop settling for guys that just aren't right. Yeah. And be patient and have some fun along the way, you know, and it's just really patience,

which is tough. It's tough to be patient. You're just not there yet. You're going to be fine. Thank you for this. Appreciate it. All right. Well, incorporate my, maybe block him.

I don't know. Maybe it's just like, I don't know. We're going to be in the same state this weekend. So let's just not see him. That's great. Why don't you just block him? Yeah, I should. But will you?

I want to say yes, that I will. And in this moment in time. You're the one who a few moments ago said, I wish I would have took your advice earlier. I think I'd be in a different place now. So you need to start doing things differently because you recognize that you have regret about not being harder on yourself

and holding yourself more accountable to these things and letting go of this kind of false hope. Now it's up to you. That's why I need to let go of the false of false hope. Now it's up to you. That's right. Let go of the false hope. So blocking them might be a great start. So why don't you just block them right now? Right now on the call.

Yeah. All right. I'm doing it. Good thing is I don't even have his number saved so it's even better. Just delete the contact and block the number. Block the number. Delete all the text messages. Block on Instagram. This is great. So proud of you. There we go. Block the number. Delete all the text messages. Block on Instagram.

This is great. There we go. Good for you. We need a blocking note. You're a hero. That was amazing. I already blocked it. Amazing.

All right. Well. Be gone. That stuff is so hard to do. Congratulations. Go treat yourself. Yeah, literally. Buy yourself something nice.

Go on dates take breaks when you get fatigued don't get discouraged when you have bad dates be picky, be patient you're going to be okay thank you, I really appreciate it tell all your listeners to listen to you the first time around don't wait like I did

everyone has their journey but you should go treat yourself because this is a good thing I'm going to Atlanta this weekend maybe I'll hit up a spa or something. Yes. Good for you. You should be proud of yourself.

It wasn't easy to do. And don't beat yourself up on your mistakes, but like learn from them and just, and then, and when you do over, you know, do the right thing, pat yourself on the back. It's not easy to do. Weirdly enough, I feel like a relief.

Yeah. I don't know why, but I do. Because he's an energy sucker. For you, he's an energy sucker for you he's an energy sucker he just depletes you of feeling good yeah you're right you've allowed him to do that you've played a role on that and you blocking him and doing this is probably it's probably this like sense of like i i got a chance to not obsess and dwell and stress and all that you know and don't feel bad i've i've been in your shoes we've all been in your shoes you know don't beat but you got to move forward. I'll never be able to move forward if I keep going back,

which is what I think I just realized this whole call is that doing that and blocking him is giving me a chance to move forward and meet guys and talk and not feel guilty about being on dates. Absolutely. You definitely should not feel guilty about choosing yourself. Someone's got to prioritize you and it needs to start with you if you don't prioritize you first then other people won't either yeah that's true maybe that's why i have no luck because i never put myself first no start yeah there you go like write that down and start making like a conscious choice you know try being a selfish prick see how it goes i don't know you know and then pull it back you know but like but seriously if you think

you have a hard time doing that just try to be a little more selfish and and and then know when to like be giving to the people who are willing to give you stuff too you know it should be reciprocated all right thanks for letting us uh thanks for giving us an update no thanks for having me i really appreciate it all right take care bye Welcome back, Alex. How are you? Awesome. How are you? I'm great. Last time we spoke with you, you were not awesome, if I remember.

You were a little down. You felt not only down with you were in a situationship with a guy with a kid, I believe. Yes. Yep. Well, let's do a little flashback. So I've been in a situationship, I guess, for seven months now. Okay. We both tried to end it multiple times, and then we can't go more than a week or two without contacting each other.

And then we are good for a couple weeks, and then we end it again. are good for a couple weeks and then we ended again and why uh in your from your point of view do you think it's not a relationship or has it become one i've had the talk with him like can we be boyfriend and girlfriend and he just says he feels like we're in two different places and that's what he says every time he ends it too we're in two different places and that I deserve better and he doesn't want to affect me negatively. And then he comes back. Well, I mean, they're always going to come back. And you want to end it. I mean, I want him to, I want him to want a relationship.

Okay. Well, the only way to do that is to not give him the things he's already getting. And again, like you've heard me say it a hundred times, remind him one more time how you feel about him, what you want. Don't ask. Don't plead with him. Don't beg.

You just say, this is what I want. This is what I need from you or anyone else I allow in my life. And I'm sorry you're going through what you're going through. I would love to be at your side. That's what I want. You've got to write a list of all the things you want,

and then you just say that to him. This isn't making you happy. I know. It just makes me feel like I'm not good enough. But I believe that about myself, that I'm never good enough. Well, you are, but you also have to, it's a combination of you feel like you're not good enough, and then you're trying to find validation or value by finding it for someone else. You have to feel good enough for yourself.

No guy is going to make you feel good enough. They're just fucking guys. It doesn't have to sound like corny or cliche, but you have to love yourself first. You have to believe it. And these guys, so maybe make a list of things that maybe you're not a fan of about yourself. And then you figure out what are in that list

are things that you have control over, whatever it is. Maybe you want to get better at standing up for yourself. That's something you can work on. Maybe you want to learn a second language. I don't know. Maybe it's a health thing. Maybe you want to improve a health aspect. Maybe it's a hobby you want to try.

I don't know. But make a list of those things. And I bet there's some things that you can control. Some things you might not be able to control. I don't know. But then accept those and then work on those and prioritize your time by trying to focus on those. Get really obsessed with that list. You'll get busy. People will notice. You'll get more confidence. You'll start being a little bit more particular with your time. No guy is going to make you feel good about yourself the way you can.

I took your advice and I ended it with, well, I told him I wanted it and I just said, I can't do it anymore. So you shot your shot one more time for no regrets. Okay. Yes. And then I blocked him and said I was done. And then I did some sticky notes and started working on myself.

I gave up on dating. I was like, I'm going to just be done working. Now I'm dating the one that I think I'm going to marry. Okay. What were those sticky notes? Positive self-affirmations like you had mentioned to do. Did that help? That worked?

It actually really did. I put them on my mirror in the bathroom and on my front door and I saw them every day. And how did we meet the new one? The new one was through Facebook dating. Okay. Facebook dating. Yeah. How long have you guys been together?

Just over a month now. Okay. And we're still getting to know each other. Yeah. Right. Yes. Okay. But like, it feels like we've known each other. know i know and i i'm not here to be a buzzkill i'm so glad that you're

happy but like i know still what i hope that is the case for you is that you met someone who has a lot of layers and there's a lot to this person and no matter how long you've no matter how you feel like you've known there's so much more to peel back, both good and bad. But the bad stuff, hopefully, is things where you can like, you know, like you, you know, I don't know what you've shared about yourself, but you probably haven't shared everything, even if it feels like you have. Right. And things may be the first time he came over. I still had those sticky notes up. And so then I had to go in the hole. OK, how'd that go?

How'd that go how'd that go it was good and then he was like now you don't need those sticky notes because i want to be your only sticky note well that was very cute yeah i'm so happy you're happy now let me ask you this how much of your happiness do you feel like is a result of of this new person and how much of your happiness is is a result of i guess the sticky notes and you your happiness is a result of, I guess, the sticky notes and you just having a better, a more confident belief in yourself? I say, well, I mean,

I don't think I would have met him if I didn't start believing those sticky notes. Okay, that's awesome. But it took a hot minute to believe those sticky notes. I was like, this is stupid. Why am I doing this? And then... And you guys are like, no situationship?

We're full on together? Oh, yeah. On our second date, she asked me to be his girlfriend. Okay. That's awesome. But keep getting to know each other. In fact, you're not even asking for advice, but may I offer you some? I want your advice.

I would love for you on your next date... Actually, there's this game called We're Not really strangers but you can order it online it's like for like people who like just met like you don't have to get the game to do it but it's basically a bunch of like questions like prompts of like that you would ask each other oh cool and you can like do like let's go on a date and like you just talk about your thoughts and feelings and and if you don't buy the game then you can you know just, hey, I want to learn. Tell me something new about you. I want to learn something new. And I think every time you keep hanging out with him for the next year, always ask yourself, I'd love to learn something new

about you and keep challenging each other to keep learning something new. And even after it feels like you've known everything, we're constantly changing. You're going to become you're going to be a different person a year from now with or without him. And there will be moments that you're not going to experience with him and that you're going to want to share with each other. So just challenge yourself to keep learning about one another and enjoy what you have. Enjoy the moment, right? But don't be afraid to keep learning about each other and strengthen that bond. You don't want to get caught up in the excitement and the romance and say things like, well, I just, I feel like we know everything about each other. And then you, you forget to keep learning about each other. And then you start filling in

like what you don't know. And you don't ask with, with, with fantasies about what you want them to be. And then, and then reality happens and then two years go by and then you're like, oh, you're different, you know, it's not different. Maybe you just weren't paying attention. See, I'm like terrified of that. Well, don't be, you know, listen, you're, you're still very young and I'm so happy you met someone, but don't be afraid to learn who they really are. Right. Because you've already shown yourself that in a moment's time, you know, truly it wasn't that long. A couple months ago, we talked, right? In a moment's time, you completely changed your outlook on yourself and that resulted in you meeting someone quick.

And I'm so happy that you met this person. And I'm not saying, and they may very well be your person. And that's really exciting. But like, don't be afraid for life to happen. And don't try to like be afraid to find out that they might not be your person, you know? Because you're only going to find out if they're not your person. If you find out something that you realize, maybe they're not, maybe they can't give me everything I need because I deserve a lot, you know? So just keep learning. And most likely what will happen is that you will find good and bad things out.

But like you guys being willing to share that and connect will strengthen your bond, you know? Like it's a little, there's this thing in relationships where you meet and there's a period you're in, you get really excited. And again, people truly just stop checking in. And you don't. And you kind of stop. And that's where, you know, there's always these sometimes in relationships where you feel like, I feel like we're getting further apart, you know,

in relationships. And that can happen when people aren't, they stop getting to know each other for fear of what they might learn. So keep staying connected and keep building that bond through asking those questions. And in the meantime, like I said, go get that game. Go get the game, We're Not Really Strangers. You can order online. Okay. And in the meantime, like I said, go get that game. Go get the game. We're not really strangers.

You can order online. Okay. And then like on your next date night, be like, hey, there's this fun game I want to play. And like, it's just a bunch of like question prompts of like little things of like, what makes you happy? What makes you sad? What do you, you know, I don't remember all the questions,

but they're good. They're good prompts. And you will feel closer, you know, and you'll feel, and don't be afraid to have some of those tough conversations. But I'm so happy that things are going well. Me too. Like, you're going to freak out at this part, but we already have a wedding date set.

Oh my God. You're engaged? We are not engaged, but we are going on a camping trip with his family up north over the holiday weekend. And he's pretty much mentioned he's going to propose then what how do you have a wedding date then okay listen this is like not this is like more than coincidence we were playing a game the other night and we both got 11s and then we both got fours and then we played a new game and we both got 11 and fours and then we both looked

at each other and then getting married on november 4th next year okay well he's like if it's a friday or saturday it's meant to be and it's a saturday okay my advice still stands i know i'm glad you are enjoying this i know i'm glad you're enjoying this but like maybe don't be afraid to just slow it down a tad. Yes. If it truly is meant to be, slowing it down won't hurt it. Right. You know, it will only strengthen it. It will only like build that, you want to build a foundation. Because right now you don't have a foundation. What you have is like a really awesome excitement and you've met like this great guy who truly makes you feel loved.

Also, like just remember, like you just got out of a situation ship where you weren't feeling loved. It sounds like this guy's doing a great job making you feel loved. And that's awesome. And I want you to have that. But you still need to build a foundation of trust and communication and really feel like you really truly know who they are. And that takes time.

No amount of rolling of the dice and meant to be in fate and doesn't take anything away i don't want to take anything away from what you're feeling but you still have to build a foundation and challenge challenge yourself and challenge the him to say that's important to you i still want to like strengthen our relationship i still want to like you know take things slow still and have fun. And if you guys get married next November, then great. You know, that's plenty of time, you know. Yeah.

But make sure you're getting to know each other every day for the next year. Right. All right. Okay. But I am so glad that you are feeling more positive about yourself and keep up with the sticky notes. And also one more bit of advice is that maintain your independence. Got it.

I'm actually, so he's been staying with me the past couple of days and I actually, I don't know, I've never lived with partners. So I don't know what it's like, but he's like doing stuff for me.

Yeah, I'm sure that's all great. I'm sure that's all great. But it's like weird. Well, you were dating someone who wasn't though. Like, you know, you're just kind of, you're contrasting two different things.

You know, like my first girlfriend, like, you know, I was pretty religious back in the day, and she wouldn't go to church with me. And I was like, oh, big bummer at the time. And we fought about it, and I was really upset. And then we broke up, and I met someone who was like, I love going to church. You know, I'll go to church with you every Sunday. And I was like, you're amazing. And I put her on such a pedestal just because of that one thing. So I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here. I just want you to really. No, you're amazing. And I put her on such a pedestal just because of that one thing. So I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here.

I just want you to really invest in this relationship. I want you to take it slow. I want you to maintain your independence. And I don't want you to be so excited about this guy that you stop prioritizing your own personal goals and have your own alone time and feeling good about yourself independently of any guy. Right. And I want you to keep doing the sticky notes and I want you to keep like, I don't want him like, that was a really cute line. He said, that's great. But like, I want him to be okay with you still, you know, doing things for yourself and, and still wanting to like compliment yourself and check in and doing the sticky note thing and keep,

you know, building up your self-esteem and he is there to add to that. He's not there to be the cause of it. You know, he's not the only reason that you get all your happiness and self-confidence from that comes from you. And I want you to keep remembering that regardless. That's like the biggest thing I took away from our last conversation is you said like well one of them was like he wasn't the only guy that can make me happy i feel good about myself and you're 100 right and mr and mr right now while he might be here forever he's also not the only one just remember that too you know there's not two people in this world that you can have a crush on and i think the biggest takeaway is just remember that once you prioritize

yourself and once you started feeling better about yourself, immediately you found someone and keep getting to know them, slow it down and still enjoy them. Have fun. You can still get married next November. All things go well, but don't be afraid to keep learning and growing with each other and maintain your independence.

I'm so happy for you. Thank you. All right. Well, keep us posted. All things go. If you get engaged,. All right. Well, take care. I'm so excited to tell you. Keep us posted. All things go. If you get engaged, let us know. Go get that game and have some fun.

Okay. All right. Congrats. All right. Thank you. All right. Take care. You too.

Bye-bye. Bye. Allie, Amanda, if we could just read some of the updates. The first one is from episode 418. From Sarah. Our first one. We'll get right into it. From episode 418, two weddings, one weekend.

Let's play a quick clip from our caller. Just give us a quick reminder of what our caller's problem was, what we said, and where we are now. So I wrote in because I need advice on whether I should confront someone in my family to kind of stand up for myself. They've been talking about me behind my back. So for context, I need two weddings this summer. Short answer is yes, you should. I should confront? Well, you should be able to stand up for yourself.

I know. Anyways, go ahead. Give us some context. Watch me change my mind. I know, you're going to be like, you're wrong. So I'm in two weddings this summer. They're on the same weekend, but different days. So the first

wedding is one of my best friends from college. It's out of town. It's like a two-hour flight. And then the second wedding is back home Saturday. So Friday and Saturday, I'm planning on taking the earliest flight in, whatever. So a year ago, I told her that the weddings are the same weekend. This past week, my mom was hanging out with other people in our family. And she said that my cousin's mom has been talking shit about me. And she said that it's super irresponsible of me to say yes to being in

both weddings. And that I'm only irresponsible of me to say yes to being in both weddings and that i'm only thinking of myself and they don't think you should go to your friend's wedding i'm over this family like i don't this is a personal thing on me i may be totally everyone's different for everyone's family dynamic but like my rider dies or my siblings and my parents and like i don't even i'm joking i mean i dies or my siblings and my parents. And like, I don't even, I'm joking. I mean, I love all my siblings and I love my family, but even the siblings I don't like are my priority. Like I go out of my way to make them a priority because they're my family.

Yep. And cousins, like I'll do my best, but like, whatever. My friends, honestly, I don't like my, my cousin who came for dinner last night he's got friends who are way more important to him and his life than me and that's just that family dynamic and your cousins want to have this like family dynamic where family comes first even its cousins even if we treat them like shitty fucking people even if we treat them worse than their exes treat them yeah so fuck them i don't know like you're not wrong you want

my opinion you're not wrong so like go to your friend's wedding be the bigger person and go to the wedding so you don't make drama out of their wedding they ask to be in the wedding if they want you in the wedding you'd be in the wedding you do it you shut your mouth and you it's like their day and you do their thing because it's not your day, it's their wedding, and you do whatever you can to avoid any drama, and you just don't engage in drama. And when the wedding's done, just fucking, you're fucking done with this fucking catty, little club and clique and who's supposed to, like...

Aunt Betty doesn't get to tell you who you get to prioritize in your life. Don't match their energy. Don't commit the crime... of which you feel like you're the victim of okay yeah that's not that just brings you to their level don't match their energy so just be the bigger person set a boundary for yourself decide whether it's productive to bring it up before after we've agreed that's probably not productive or bringing up before show up don't give them anything to talk shit about bite your tongue and uh you can just kind of consciously decide to be like i'm kind of done like investing in this family dynamic all right ali bring us up to speed so a follow-up she somehow pulled it off she went to both weddings and they were both so much fun she says

my flight for the morning of my cousin's wedding got in on time and I made it to my bridesmaid's hair and makeup appointment with time to spare, although I only slept for 40 minutes between the weddings because she was up late for the Friday night wedding, had to get to the airport. She made it there. She said there was many comments made along the lines of, wow, Sarah, you actually made it, or wow, I can't believe you made it. but they were usually followed up with, you have good energy for not getting much sleep last night. My aunt did not say a word to me the whole night, even though we had plenty of encounters. I just let it roll off my back and let her be petty. I took Nick's advice about keeping my mouth shut and making the best of the wedding.

Although I had to fake it at first, I felt myself having more and more fun as the day went on. Toward the end of the night, my cousin pulled me aside and said, I'm so glad you were able to make it, which made my night. Even though I knew the whole time that the logistics of my travel were going to work, I'm very happy and relieved that the weekend played out in the best case scenario. Thank you so much for telling me to keep my petty comments to myself and let them all enjoy their wedding days. Love you guys. Amazing. That flight would have gotten delayed, though. That would have been bad. She would have been fine.

I mean, aunt whatever the fuck would have been pissed, but we don't care about her. But it's also props to her because it is so hard to not say something when it's like you get the urge to say it so many times. You have to be like, no, like time and time and time again. It's like good for her for like really like holding the line had a ton of fun it will be a weekend she never forgot and she got the satisfaction of the appreciation from the actual bride because mother of the bride i got news for you out there you're not as it's not it's not your day you know common misconception common

misconception uh amongst parents. And I get some of you are paying for it. I get it. But still, not your day. Well, we were so happy that she had some fun. Up next, we have from episode 3 to 9, it was the Deep D and Shana episode. The big love is blind season. It was from a mediation call with Liz and Mike.

They were dating and they were having problems with kind of... Mike was kind of stepping in on the parenting of Liz's kids. Like he wanted to connect with the kids and he understood that maybe it wasn't his place, but they were trying to find that common ground of how he could feel involved. Anyways, let's just go back and play a quick clip from that call to bring us up to speed and then we'll get our update. I am somewhat recently divorced. It's been a couple of years almost. And Mike is my first boyfriend after my divorce. And he's, and I think I said this before, really great, super, our relationship is really good. It's probably the healthiest one I've ever had for being as young as I am, which I appreciate. And we do a really good job of communicating most of the time. I have two

daughters. They are almost 14 and eight and he has no children. So it's been kind of a transition in that part of our relationship, just learning, going from pretty much taking care of himself to helping me with them and being involved in that capacity with kids. And for the most part, it's really, really good. We have an issue that kind of recurs where 14 and eight are tough ages, 14 specifically for a girl. And she has a lot of issues that I have to deal with. And we butt heads and get in arguments and things that typically happen with a mom and a daughter. And when he's there, he has this drive to help people constantly, which is a good thing.

But because he wants to help, he sort of interjects a lot in those types of discussions. And I think it's just learning or looking for some advice for how I can maybe make him feel validated and heard for what he thinks without disrupting those types of interactions, if that makes sense. Does it matter what Mike's take is or you would just like, is it, do you get more frustrated if he's like taking your daughter's side or is it about like, is he almost trying to mediate like a fight between the two of you like what is the thing that seems feels the most triggering so the thing that's i think the most triggering to me is probably twofold first off he does a really good job of backing me for the most part like he's

a lot of times i think his intentions are really really good like he's trying to back me up and be like, yes, you should listen to your mom because X, Y, Z. But unfortunately what tends to happen because my older daughter specifically has had a really not a great relationship with my ex-husband. Sure. Who I was with for 10 years, a lot of her life. And so she has some residual, I think,

I don't want to call it trauma, but some past experiences with that. So she doesn't want, she's like, when she's upset, she doesn't want to hear him talk at all. And she likes him. They have a good relationship. Again, they're still building. It's only been a year. It's going to take more time than that, especially for a 14-year-old who hardly likes me most of the time.

Be the friend that she goes to, to vent to her mom, you know, vent about her mom rather. And, and you, and she, and you know, like she, and you,

you know, you're, you're, Mike's going to have your back. So you're not worried about that, but she, you kind of just trick a 14 year old into thinking, you know,

that you're a friend. And, and, and that's when you drop that wisdom or advice. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a parent, but I feel like that might be a better solution.

And you'll just save yourself that energy. But be the person that gives the advice that she's already hearing from her parents she doesn't want to listen to. Yeah, I think that's great advice. That's the solution that goes on in my mind, too. Well, now you have to execute, man. All right, Amanda, what do we got for an update? Okay. Hi there. My boyfriend and I moved in together last month with my kiddos, of course.

We have been using Nick's advice and my boyfriend has really been doing better, not interjecting with the occasional setback, LOL. But things are going great so far and we talk about the podcast from time to time and really appreciate the help. Yay! Not interfering, not butting in. So they live together. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. Well, it sounds like things are on the right path.

We've done it again. All right. Well, they now live together. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Ella. I'm 28 years old. Welcome back, Ella. We appreciate having you call back. Yeah. Thanks for having me. So remind our audience why you first called it. Yeah, definitely.

So I, my husband and I, I should say, we've been having a difficult time with his mother, my mother-in-law. She has been making things a little difficult for everyone. We get the sense that she enjoys creating drama for the whole family and has a hard time having conversations about it, trying to maintain or create a better relationship. So we're just trying to get things in a better place. So I am reaching out about my mother-in-law. I'm having a really hard time with her.

I'm struggling because she is extremely manipulative. You know, I don't want to throw that word around, but after eight years of dealing with her, I think I can probably get away with it. She likes to pit my husband and his siblings against one another. I'm now thrown into the mix more than I was before. For instance, recently, she got annoyed at my husband for not texting his brother back in short enough time. She called him an asshole told him he was awful whenever your mother-in-law told her son that she was he was an asshole for not texting her brother back yep she really likes to be in control of all all of our relationships

so my husband's relationships the siblings my relationship that's more than emotional that's more than manipulative that's yeah pretty abusive the issue i have is that she had really abusive childhood that she uses as an excuse for her bad behavior and i'm trying to figure out how i can have compassion for this woman without letting her use that as her get out of jail free card my response is she's not a child anymore and she might be a victim of her own from something. Well, from when she was a child, it doesn't give people a green light or a free pass or excuse to perpetuate that type of abuse onto others. I mean, we always hear how child molesters are often victims of child molestation themselves, right? That is not an excuse. We don't have sympathy for those people, and rightfully so, when they victimize other

people, right? Now, I'm giving a very extreme comparison. So as this adult person, your mother-in-law, So as this adult person, your mother-in-law, if she can recognize that she was a victim, then she also is capable of getting the help that she might need and recognizing that it's not okay to act the way she does. Her acknowledging that she was a victim herself is also a recognition that she must, on some level, recognize what she is doing because she's trying to make excuses for it. on some level recognize what she is doing because she's trying to make excuse for it and i think you have to choose being healthy over anything else yeah thank you i think it's really helpful to see that it's not black and white because to me you know i hear about her childhood and i think no no wonder she's acting like this i feel terrible for her but then like

you said it's not an excuse for the behavior and And that's where I struggle because she uses it as her. People often confuse, and it's really frustrating in this world, people confuse having empathy with someone with agreeing with them or validating their choices. You can have empathy for someone and still not validate and approve of their choices and actions. Yeah. Thank you you that's helpful because that's what i've been struggling with the most really you know figuring out my own feelings about having compassion and empathy but not accepting what i consider and i think ridiculous out of line behavior yeah and i think you having empathy for her will make you feel like better about for enforcing those boundaries because you're not feeling cold you're like no i do empathize and i'm

so sorry this happened to you and i'm so sorry you had to deal with this and it's all the more reason why it's important for me unfortunately to set this boundary because i don't want that type of behavior to affect my husband or if your husband's saying this to his mother-in-law to affect me and our future kids and so please please deal with this. Please. If you can recognize that you had this abuse, please do the work. Please go get therapy. We're in therapy. Like, you know, like, please go do it because we want you to be a part of our lives and we want you to stop treating us this way. So please, I beg of you because I know you have been hurt and I'm so sorry you've been hurt and my heart goes out to you and we we want to give you love, but not at the expense of you treating us this way. What was the specific problem back then? And then what advice did I offer? Yeah. So the problem then, and we actually found your advice really helpful, even though the

situation has escalated. Problem then was that she, the example I gave was that she got annoyed that my husband, who's in his late 20s, didn't text his 22-year-old brother back fast enough. And it was a, hey, what's up text. And my husband was busy. She ended up calling him an awful asshole. And the whole situation escalated. And she essentially blamed everything on her childhood, which has been the gist of our entire eight-year relationship. She'll lash out, say it was because she was having a difficult time because of her childhood. A piece of advice you gave that I found really helpful was to acknowledge you know the trauma of her past and have compassion but try

to redirect the conversation so to say something like you know I understand you've been through a lot what you've gone through is very difficult I can only imagine however what I want to focus on is x or y so that's been the approach we've been trying to take to redirect things. Has it worked? Sort of. Want me to get into what's happened? Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. So my husband and I, we ended up eloping last year because of COVID. We had a wedding reception just for friends and family this year. We already married. His parents live in California. My family is in another state. They flew out here and it was pretty clear in the beginning that his mom was set on having a bad time. We were in a major city. They were staying at a pretty nice hotel. His mom was complaining that it wasn't the San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara.

I've been, lovely place, but you're not going to find that in the Midwest. So it wasn't even in Santa Barbara and not at the hotel she wanted. She was somewhere completely different. Yeah. Like you're in the Midwest. It's going to be cabiny and rustic. Like I've lived in LA. I miss it too. But you're not going to.

There's also lovely places in the Midwest. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so that is a dead giveaway of someone who clearly has their mindset on not liking a situation. Yeah, exactly. But the big drama of the weekend was that she was in a fight with her mom. So my grandmother-in-law, my husband's mom, she wanted them seated, quote unquote, as far as possible from each other at

the reception, but they were on the same flight staying at the same hotel. So it was like, she wanted to make it clear to everyone that there were issues between her and her mom, but she wouldn't say what the issues were. And she wouldn't just not be with her. It was like she had to be with her, but make it very clear to everyone that there were issues. So what happened was that the night of our wedding reception, they showed up late. So they're the last people to arrive out of everyone. And my husband got a call from his grandma saying she had no idea how to get to the venue. It was a 10 minute walk from their hotel. My husband's parents had supposedly left without her. How old is grandma, by the way? She's 82, 83. She's in her 80s. So she doesn't really know

what's going on. But she asked my husband for a ride. So he ended up leaving his own wedding reception, essentially, to go find grandma who's roaming the streets. Because no one else could. No. And his parents weren't picking up the phone or so grandma said. And my husband got really frustrated with his parents and tried to talk to them about it and ended up, we had a conversation, the four of us in the hallway while all our guests were waiting for us in the private room of the restaurant. His parents were upset. His mom was crying. She was saying we were fabricating things. We have no idea what she's gone through with her mother. She went to four therapy sessions

just to muster up the courage to come to our wedding reception. It was a long list of excuses, essentially, for my husband just saying, you know, what's going on? This is supposed to be our night. This is, you know, the one time we want things to be about us and to be calm. And the problem there was that she couldn't accept the criticism, however gentle, and ended up flying home without saying goodbye. So they left. They left grandma and my husband's brother and disappeared. She left all the family group chats.

My parents were very confused. So my dad ended up sending a nice to meet you. You know, we love your son. We hope you can resolve things email. She reached out to me to tell my dad to stop sending things to her because it was very upsetting. There was just, I mean, that's essentially how things escalated. it got so intense and dramatic that I have to go to context. It's like one of those things, she felt embarrassed. It's like she wanted the drama. She wanted people to know there was drama. And then after she created the drama and left away, she felt then, you know, she felt embarrassed reading your dad's email,

probably because she calmed down and let some time pass and now felt embarrassment for the theatrics that she performed right it was my guess yeah yeah so where are we now well how long ago was this this was let's see three and a half months ago okay so it was right after our last call um yeah yeah that's right and so where where are we now? So right now, we are temporarily no contact. What ended up happening was she, you know, responded to my dad, my dad responded to her saying, you know, I, we love your son, I'll butt out from here. She reached out to me again, telling me to tell my dad to stop. He sent me all the emails. And it was a, you know, I'm not fired, I quit situation where he was telling her he'd leave her alone. And alone and she was you know obsessed with telling us to tell him to stop reaching out when he wasn't reaching out anymore and like yeah how many times how many times did he write yeah twice the initial email and then his response to her response okay and that was it so yeah it just got normal correspondence yeah so we're taking space right now my husband's birthday is coming up we don't know whether we're going to hear from his parents but but we, our plan, we're hoping to have kids in the next year or so. We'd like to reconnect with them once we're expecting a child and try to repair the relationship because they don't seem willing to have a conversation right now.

Where's father-in-law in all this? He will do anything to support his wife. So whatever she says, he'll back up. And I've seen it in action for eight years. And I get that to an extent. But when it comes to, you know, sending food back at restaurants, being disrespectful to service people, being, you know, kind of rude when she calls for it, it's kind of hard to watch at times. That's a bummer. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, your advice is great. I plan on using that in the future. But you know, trying to redirect the conversation, we just we don't know how to have a discussion without, you know, completely ignoring our own boundaries, I guess, and agreeing with everything she says. And it's, it's challenging. So we're trying to find that balance, or we're not necessarily enabling bad behavior, putting up with absolutely everything, but we don't want no relationship.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I can say anything that's going to be helpful, but I think consistency would be helpful here. It sounds like you guys have that consistency, but just like that part of like, and I think it's more to, you know, like there's only like you and your, I think it had, unfortunately there's more pressure on your husband because it's his parents. I mean, I was thinking to myself, like, I don't know if this is going to be productive, and certainly not through a letter or an email, but like, you know, the irony of her complaining about her mom. And I would be willing to bet that some of her complaints, I mean, who knows what she had in her childhood, and probably some of her feelings are valid. But now that my guess is she

complains about her mom still like, still doing the things that she used to do as a child and making it about her and et cetera, et cetera. And your son maybe pointing out to his mom that I'm really sorry you went through that. But don't you see the similarities of what you're doing to us that grandma did to you? And almost like point out, it's just like, you know, maybe that might make her want to do something different by comparing her to the person that she seems to have such an issue with. I think that could be helpful. I think you have to do that. I know she feels rejected. You have to do that very carefully, you know, because I could see that going.

But I guess more importantly, I think continuing, whether it's through emails or letters to just say, it's like you kind of simultaneously still reach out to mom and say, I still love you. And we still have a desire to have a relationship. And hit them with, we're going to hopefully start a family soon. We hope you can be a part of that. But at the same time, it is important for us for us to have these boundaries and these limits. And we do expect you to respect our choices and our family and our wishes. And maybe he can throw in that in that letter, kind of like,

I'm sure you can understand why because you, you didn't get this from your mom and I'm hoping I can just have this from my mom. Yeah. Kind of thing. You know, some, something with that energy. Yeah. You know, maybe that might hit her. I don't know. More importantly, you just like keep letting her know that you love her and, and want her in your life, but also consistently remind her that there will be boundaries that you will be enforcing. And there's things that you won't be okay with. And she is going to have to come around, not the other

way around, but you are happy. You are hoping that she wants to be, you won't always see eye to eye. It's okay to take breaks, but like when you say she feels rejected, what do you mean? it's okay to take breaks but like when you say she feels rejected what do you mean yeah i think so my husband he grew up in you know an affluent family in the bay area and his mom is pretty status obsessed she name drops skills she runs into i was you know briefly a personal assistant for an actress in la and she was like obsessed to that job to the point of my having to set boundaries with her because like this person wanted privacy. And my husband and I live in the Midwest and are both working quiet jobs now and are very happy. And I miss LA. I miss living there sometimes, but we both decided to settle down elsewhere. And she is very focused on the tech industry where she lives.

She's very focused on traveling to Europe. She went to the Cannes Film Festival last year and reached out, quote unquote, this is more exciting than my parents going to the Oscars three times. It feels like she's in competition with her mom. But I think she feels like we've rejected the life she wanted us to have early in our relationship. And she said as much to us. She doesn't understand why we live in the state we're in. Even her comment about San Ysidro Ranch when we chose to have a reception elsewhere. I don't think she, as a loving but controlling person, agrees with our life decisions. And she's said as much that she feels rejected by us, even though we reach out. And I wonder, based on my own therapy and what

my therapist has pointed out, that maybe she feels rejected by her son because she keeps offering unsolicited advice that we don't want to accept because we're happy living the way we're living right now and don't have the same focus on you know status over analyzing our income you know needing to live in a major city yeah texting we run into every day so yeah i think you just have to find a way to like it's almost it's like mom dad specifically mom, like I want you in my life, but I also want to have like a friendship too. And maybe our relationship, it might be different than what you imagined. And maybe what I imagined too. But at the end of the day, I do want you as a part of my life, even if we don't always see eye to eye. And I just want to accept, I just want you to accept our lives it's not and I accept yours

like she feels rejected fine but like she's obsessed with like everyone thinking that she's a special one I mean it sounds like grandma or mom's like kind of addicted to like being validated and getting attention and it's all about her right yeah it's like the selfish grandma's the same way with a better attitude so it's this weird thing yeah grandma's is old and tired and probably just like maybe charming because she's a grandma but i don't doubt that grandma might have been that way too but yeah so it's maybe just setting an expectation about like yeah you're my mom but like you're like you don't get to tell me what to do anymore and i am sorry if i had different choices and you want it for me but i'm happy and more than anything mom i hope

that what you wanted for me was happiness and And maybe you just hit her with that. Yeah, definitely. That's a good approach. And in the meantime, we have a great relationship with my parents and I know it's not ideal to not have both, but at least we're not struggling on both sides. And you're probably already doing this, but make sure you're always letting your husband know. I'm sure he must be feeling insecure about this. I think we always get self-conscious when our parents are the drama. And, you know, just kind of reassure him that, you know, families can be weird and things like that. And that you don't, I don't know, maybe you've already done this, but it's always good to just remind him of that because that can be fairly stressful,

I imagine, on him and the role it's playing and what he, you know, he maybe he's thinking what you think, or if this is more than you signed up for and shit like that. It's, I think it's easy to get insecure about that when it's happening to you and your family. Yeah, definitely. That's a good point. I'm really trying to reiterate that, like, yeah, it's stressful for me sometimes, but he's the real, you know, priority in my life. And also he's the one who's going through this more than i could imagine because they're his parents yeah i want a good relationship with my in-laws but sure but that's that's up to them you know and all you can do is do your part and you guys can have the reassurance that you know you've done your part and you'll keep reaching out and the rest is up

to her it's just i think it's just one of those things her mom probably manipulated her and the only thing that she feels like she probably has control over is to do that to her kid. And she probably doesn't realize it. You're repeating what our couple therapists said. So that seems to be the consensus. All right. Well, at least I'm in line with your therapist. So, yeah, at least you can have empathy for her, but always just keep, you know, drawing those boundaries.

Yeah, definitely. But no, thanks for your help. That line really helped us. We're both trying to remember it where we acknowledge what she went through, but then kind of redirect to focus of the conversation. So we're not just, you know, shutting everything down. So appreciate your help. Appreciate the update. Yeah. Maybe we'll have another in a year. Yeah. There's definitely, yeah. Keep us posted keep us posted. I hope a mom eventually comes around.

But yeah, I would keep reaching out. I would have him keep reaching out as long as he, your husband, as long as he's feeling comfortable and just remind her of his desire to have a relationship. And that relationship might be different than what she expects or wants. But the most important thing is, is that there is a relationship and you hope that she can enjoy the family that you guys hope to start. And you just hope that they can be happy that you're happy because you guys are happy for them. And if that's, isn't that what life is all about? You know, like,

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You, you, you don't feel like you can brag about our Midwest home or whatever it is. You know, it's like you're cheating her out of her ability to say that. Cause that's what she wants. It sounds like to go to her friends and be like, you know, my daughter-in-law works for, you know, Gwyneth or whatever the fuck.

Yeah. You know? No, I know that. And she was telling everyone then too. And it was embarrassing. It's like, what's not like doing this.

Cause it was an interesting job. Not cause I want it broadcast. Social climate. Yeah. So whatever. Yeah. Yeah. it's frustrating yeah but yeah thank you again my pleasure thank you yeah of course all right good one take care bye-bye thanks you too bye how's it going good how are you doing nick uh good welcome back zoe so do you want me to let you know uh kind of where it left off? Yeah. Well, just for an update for our callers, we'll play a quick clip. But this was from the Cheryl Burke episode of Going Deeper, texting office hours. And give us a little background

again. All right. So basically, I called in because I needed your help to compose a text to shoot my shot with this guy from the gym. The gym, yes. Yeah. So there's a little background story. Like we matched on Hinge like two years before then life happened and I was single and I was ready to mingle and I wanted to shoot my shot with him and see what would happen. Basically, I need you to help me shoot my shot here. Okay. So basically, here's a little bit of a rundown. I'm going to give you a little lowdown about what happened.

So about a year ago, I matched with this guy on Hinge. We messaged on the app for about three weeks. We never ended up meeting in real life. I ended up getting back together with my ex. So I unmatched him and got off Hinge. So about six months ago, I see this guy, the guy that I matched with on Hinge at my gym. And the funny thing about this is, uh, while we were messaging, I told him about my gym and suggested that he go and try it out. Uh, while he was there, neither of us acknowledged each other.

Um, and then a couple of weeks later, do you think he recognized you? I mean, you know, you recognize him and ignored him. Do you, what do you think?

I think he did recognize me. And just cause he like there would be situations where he needed like a towel to clean the equipment off behind me and he would literally go all around the gym got you purposely and do you when you got back with your ex did you just i mean granted you had only a message on a dating app right did you exchange cell phone numbers or were you only texting on the dating app we were only texting on the dating app and then you essentially just kind of ghosted him i'm guessing right because like there was no need for a breakup yeah i mean it's technically unclear because i don't have anything to refer to i don't

know if he stopped messaging me back and it was like a couple days before i just kind of like busted out but you just got back your ex kind of forgot about him altogether and you don't really know how he internalized this moment maybe he was matched with 15 other women we don't know maybe he thought you were the one and he went on some other podcasts and talked about it yeah exactly that could definitely happen okay but either way you realize x no good now we're back we're single we're back on x and no good now we're back we're single we're back on in the market you are at the gym in which you suggested yes well you haven't in do you want to just go on a date with the guy right yeah sure i mean yeah like i was hoping that he would ask me on a date when we were

talking for those three weeks you send him a message and you say and let me know if you guys disagree, but I think we have it. And it's, hey, I think it's only fair that you take me out for a coffee for the amazing Jing recommendation or something like that. Cute, I like it. I like that. Put a comma after the hey.

And if you want a drink or whatever it is, a meal of food, I don't know. I like to keep it simple, but I think coffee's real simple. I think it's only fair whatever it is, a meal of food, I don't know. I like to keep it simple. But I think coffee is real simple. I think it's only fair that you buy me a cup of coffee for the amazing gym recommendation and then just put your number under it. Text me. Okay.

All right. Yeah, that sounds good. Sext me. I will have to keep you guys updated. Let us know. All right. Sounds good. I think it's going to go well. All right.

So we told you to send a text that says, it's only fair to buy me an amazing cup of... You recommended the gym to him. That's right. You recommended the gym. He went to the gym. And so you text him, only fair, only fair, buy me a cup of...

Only fair that we go out for a drink because I gave you such an awesome gym recommendation. Okay. Yeah. You said that. And then what happened? All right. So I sent it kind of at night because I wanted some liquid courage.

I sent it right away. But anyway, it took him like a whole day to reply back to me, which kind of like freaked me out a little bit. But then he sent it around like three o'clock the next day and he said, Oh my God, probably helps to hit send. We should. You should come work out with us on Friday nights. Like once a month, we'll all go out and get food and drinks. Who's we? So from that, exactly. So that's what I said too. I said that back.

I was like, wait, who's we? I just meant you and me. And he said, oh, I was just thinking like it was some other friends from the gym. We all kind of like little groups of people we all hang out with outside of the gym. And he was like, I was just thinking off the top of my head. So I kind of felt a little rejected. So I was just like, well, I'm leaving for a vacation in a couple of days when I'm gone. If you're interested, let me know. So you kind of called him on the, so you, he, you hit him with the message. He wrote back, sure, but let's get together as a group of friends. And you kind of called him on the, so you hit him with the message. He wrote back, sure, but let's get together as a group of friends.

And you kind of were like, hey, I thought this was going to be, I wanted this to be you and me. You said that to him? Yeah, I did. Good for you. I took your advice from listening all these years. Good for you. Not everyone does. All right.

And then you told him you're going on this trip. All right. Now keep going. All right. So we basically talked for almost like an hour that night, but that doesn't matter. So then while I was on the trip. Why doesn't that matter? Well, I don't know.

It was just like small talk, but I get it. Cause I just already felt friend zone. So I was just like, oh, he's just like talking like a friend to me. Cause it wasn't anything like romantic or flirty. It was like, what are you doing? Where are you going? Who are you seeing? Yada, yada.

Okay. So while I was on the trip, he like texted me every day. So I was like, okay, well, that's a good sign. So finally, I got back home. And we were talking about Game of Thrones and like the new show House of Dragons. So he invited me over to watch it because I don't have HBO Max. So that was kind of that was our first date. so it was just him and i and it was super fun i was there for like six hours and when i left he said you're coming back for the next episode right and i said yeah of course and then uh he texted me was there any kissy kissy or anything like that or he didn't which i'm okay with i was okay with but he said tonight was a lot of fun i want to see you again but until then

good night so that it's kind of just taken off from there and we've already hung out like three other times and have we have we have we any kissy kissy kissy yes yeah we made out already but that's it okay so but you clearly now feel comfortable that like he knows that this is not some sort of like friendship for you yeah yeah like we already talked about it like i even asked him i was like so why did you say the friend thing when i first asked you out he was like i don't know i was kind of confused i was kind of nervous i wasn't sure like if you really wanted to hang out with me and i was like well i did so we got it all settled out and he's like really happy that I shot my shot and hanging out. Well, cheers to us. Yeah. Thank you. About ourselves on the back. What are your next steps? Cause it doesn't sound like you've defined

any relationship. Right. So it's still only like maybe two weeks in, so it's still fairly new. Um, but we do have like already dates scheduled. I'm seeing him at the gym tonight. So we will see each other kind of occasionally just on evenings at the gym. But then like we're going out to dinner on Saturday. We're watching the House of Dragons every Sunday. So we're kind of getting to know each other. Great.

Well, enjoy this. Whenever you start feeling like you want more expectations from him, that's a positive feeling. And you should listen to those feelings. Yeah, exactly. Whenever that happens. But yeah, take it slow, get to know him and then you'll know, but trust your gut when that happens. Because people always ask, well, when should I do it? I mean, well, just listen to your gut. I mean, even just bringing up like why he avoided me for so long too. I just did that

a couple of days ago too, but that's just like a huge step for me as well. Just like saying something that, you know, it was a little vulnerable, a little nerve wracking, but I think it helped us. It like grew us closer together. So I'm really excited.

All right. We, we are now in love with Jim boy. And like, we're in like with Jim boy. Yes. You still have plenty to know about him and him you. All right.

Well, this is good to know we're actually bringing people together. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll keep you guys updated. Hopefully no mediation needs to be done in the future. Well, we are here if you need. Yes, okay. I'll let you guys know. And if he tries to turn this into a situation ship, bring him on.

Okay. I will. I was lying. on. Okay. I will. I was loving it. I don't think he will. He's been pretty vocal about his intentions and how he feels and all that stuff. Great. I'm pretty excited. I love this for you.

All right. Yeah. Well, go be excited and have some fun and keep us posted. All right. Well, thank you guys so much because I probably wouldn't be here without you guys. So thank you. Well, you are welcome. But give yourself some credit too. You did did all the heavy lifting thank you all right all

right take care i'll talk to you guys later all right bye bye uh up next we have the episode 435 the going deeper episode with brian austin green and sharna the dog custody. Jenna. Jenna. Let's play a quick clip from that episode to bring us up to speed. I need help responding to my ex-boyfriend about co-parenting our dog. Oh, tough. So are you guys sharing custody of the dog now at this point?

Well, so I know it sounds ridiculous. I hear it from both sides. It doesn't sound ridiculous. It doesn't at all. Your dog is your kid. I know it sounds ridiculous. I hear it from both sides. It doesn't sound ridiculous. It doesn't at all. Your dog is your kid. I'm assuming right now. I got, Natalie and I got a dog. Like I got, you know, I purchased Jeff, but like, yeah, no, I, it's sensitive.

It's touchy. Yeah, it's a pretty common thing. So don't feel like it's ridiculous at all because it's a very common thing. Total empathy in this room for the situation. We wanted to get a dog together. It was COVID and I worked for a dog rescue. And so I brought this dog home from transport one day. He didn't have a foster and we foster failed. We kept him. So yeah, no one paid. I mean, technically I paid with my work. The adoption fee was waived because I work for them. I volunteer for them. So yeah, that's kind

of how that happened, which is also kind of a weird part of the story. But basically we broke up about three weeks ago and we were together for two and a half years. We lived together. We had a dog together. So I moved back in with my parents about 45 minutes to an hour away. So during the relationship, he would often like joke about how if we ever broke up, he would take the dog from me. And that always like freaked me out, obviously, because I don't know. I don't think that's something to joke about. And I don't know what upset me. So in the beginning, like right when we first broke up, I felt like I had to be like overly amenable in terms of co-parenting. And I found out pretty quickly that like I needed to set up some boundaries.

I think it's okay if he hates you. Your ex. Yeah, I can live with the bad juju, right? I don't think it is bad juju. I think. Well, I mean, because he's like, you know, saying that he'll hate you and talk shit about you to his friends and, and, and his group of friends.

He's going to hate you and talk shit about you anyway. It has nothing to do with the dog. If you did everything he wanted in regards to the dog, he would find some other reason to say something. He'd still have something else to say. Because it's not about the dog. It's, it's,

he's pissed that you wanted out of the relationship and you got the fuck out. And he's hurting and not saying anything about it. So instead, he's going to be venomous in any way that he can. He didn't come to the table with compromise, with understanding. The language that you were using in trying to be empathetic to him, he was very short with you. I don't feel like there was even proper communication

from him in this it was more about trying to make you do what he wanted you to do and so for me i don't even think you need to respond to it i think you've said your piece you can do whatever you want so the question is what will make you feel best right well i already wrote my vent text and sent it to my mom and my friends you know okay you did your dry run yeah the important thing in this is that like his reaction is not really the point of that your next follow-up this is more what you need what what's going to make you feel like you you've done everything you should or could have done to like make yourself feel like you know like you don't you're not gonna have to apologize for something down the road like you did your best

you've tried etc etc so like i don't i agree i don't think you need to send anything but if if you just want to say again almost kind of repeat what you've already said what do you think is going to make you feel like the most like you know what i've done what i can and now i'm just i'm done with it and i'm moving forward so it's just more what do you think would make you feel the best my instinct is to just like walk away and not necessarily block him but just like leave it where it's at and hopefully he doesn't you know one he he asked in that text like he said know, give me an explanation why kind of I, yeah, I'm going to be pretending to be reasonable. So you could just spell it out for him and say, I know I like I was the one who actually got so and so we never agreed to, you know, whatever we joked about, you know, he said, I would keep the dog or whatever you like that, that's irrelevant. And we've both split bills since then. And listen, at the end of

the day, I got the dog and I'm sorry if you hate me for this, but like, I've tried to do the co-parenting thing. It's not, it doesn't seem feasible. We both need to move on. I think it's for the best. And this is, I'm going to do this. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but like, don't apologize for doing it. You can apologize for how it might make him feel and then, and just be done. All right. What's our update, Allie? She says, I was too nervous about what a phone call per Brian's advice might turn into as he can be very manipulative. And one of the biggest issues we had was his anger. This was also something I was nervous to be honest about on my call with Nick because I wanted to be as respectful as possible and not trash who he was, but that was a major concern for me in any future communication. text per Nick and Sharna's advice, it might aggravate him. So I decided to continue to ignore him until he said what I took as him giving up and telling me to drop off my keys

to the apartment. Then, as you can see, he sent another text two weeks later, and I decided to send him the final text I had written to send a while ago, but decided not to. The text reads as this. I'm not taking him from you. I will repeat. I have suggested numerous flexible pickup option times since we broke up that you've chosen to decline and ignore. You could have seen him every other week for the past six weeks. Being able to say he was your dog was a backup in case my parents were upset with me. However, that never happened. They love and no one has ever said or believed he was your dog. The rent argument you have repeatedly brought up throughout our relationship is just another example of your consistent attempt to demean me. You knew you were

dating someone in college and I told you what I could afford before you chose the place we would live. We could have moved somewhere we paid 50-50, but you chose where we lived based on how much more rent you wanted to pay. When your company began to fail, I convinced my parents to pay more than the agreed upon amount to help you out. I worked as a volunteer for a year to cover his adoption fee, and while we split his training, I have paid for the majority of his vet visits, food, treats, toys, grooming, etc. This, you haven't paid a dollar statement, is a complete lie, and you know this. It's been six weeks since we broke up, and our co-parenting relationship could have started on the 24th,

but you said you had calls, and then again on the 24th, but you said you had calls. And then again on the 30th, but your response was, when are you coming to the city? You've made zero actionable effort to see if harassing me to drop him off doesn't count. And it's become obvious you had no intention to co-parent in a respectful manner. I love her. Sorry, I just want to interject. I would drive anywhere on earth to pick up. I would drive anywhere on earth to pick up.

We will never be able to move on with our lives when something as simple as you picking him up requires this much back and forth. You are 100% responsible for all of these choices not to see. And while it could have worked, I now see that any type of communication with you is not healthy or safe for me as you are resorting to lies and creating the narrative that I'm taking him from you. This text is the final communication I will have with you over this issue. Oh, that's the end of it. That's a great message by her. That is just her standing up for herself, setting some boundaries. Because honestly, as you were reading it, I go, I bet this guy never replied to that. Yeah.

How could she? She goes after every point. Yeah. This was a classic case of someone. But just like throwing shit out there. Yeah. That would like, you know, you get into arguments and they make accusations and you're the person who's trying to compromise and empathize and have a rational conversation, but they're not interested in doing that. So it feels like you feel insane. And she just finally stood her ground. And when you do that, it's like when you

stand up to a bully, bully's back down. And it sounds like that's what he was doing. And she stood up to him and good for her. Props to you, Jenna. Props to you. That really made me happy. That was a good message. Yeah. And that would have been a scroller. That is a multiple scroll. Oh yeah. That's a deep and a text message. That's a long text. Yeah. Boy, oh boy. Yeah. What a home run. Well, thanks for listening to those updates. I hope you enjoyed them. Keep sending them in if you've called in already we'll keep bringing you these uh updates assuming you like them and uh so let us know what you think and have a great day we'll be back on monday so keep listening subscribe rate review buy my book All right, everyone, if you're hearing this, I need your help right now between October 11th and the 13th. You can vote for the Vow Files for Pop Podcast of 2022 for the People's Choice

Awards. This award means a lot to me. I want to be able to share it with all of you. I love you guys. And me, Allie, and Amanda would be super grateful if you take the time to vote for the follow files over the next three days. You can vote 25 times a day. So I know a lot of you listen to the show and talk about the show with your friends. Tell your friends, let's all get together. Let's win this for all of us. I'm super excited. I can't wait to hopefully share this with you. So I hope you guys take the time. Link to register will be in the show bios. I'll put it on my social as well. I know it takes a few clicks and a little bit of your time. So I really appreciate you guys doing it again, 25 times a day over the next three days. I love you all. I hope we win this together and I can't wait to share it with you. Enjoy.