The Viall Files - E493 Bachelor In Paradise Recap w/ Natasha Bure

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Bachelor In Paradise Edition! In this episode, we’re going back to paradise by recapping this week’s episode with singer, songwriter, and actress, Natasha Bure. The group first discusses The Tea, covering Casey’s broken foot, the overall reaction to Tino’s interview, Sierra’s TikTok shade moment, and the difference between exploring a connection and leading someone on. They also cover Lace’s realness, whether you can only “leave” (or lead?) with your heart, the intimacy of touching someone’s head, and what Jacob possibly meant by having a “real romantic connection.” Nick gives his opinion on Danielle and Michael’s love language (aka napping), where one draws the line between dating and f*ckboy behavior, the power of being coy with your words, and how the group would react if they were forced to interact with someone who hated them without knowing them directly. They then close out with Victoria’s checklist conversation and predict who they think she might choose in the end.  “The pain doesn’t mean they were special” Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Framebridge: Frame your photos or send someone the perfect gift today at http://www.Framebridge.com. Hungryroot: Right now, Hungryroot is offering The Viall Files listeners 30% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to http://www.Hungryroot.com/VIALL, to get 30% off your first delivery and get your free veggies. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @natashabure See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile fouls bachelor in paradise recap edition i'm your host nick joined by ali and amanda and we have our special guest natasha beer ray is with us hello actor singer songwriter what else do you do yeah that's it she's very good at all especially a new hit new hit single uh her instead yes natasha has the voice of an angel thank you that's so's so nice. It's really quite good. Thank you. Sometimes people will like, Natalie introduced me to the song

and sometimes people are like, oh, like listen to this person sing. And as a non-singer, I have like, I'm very easily impressed. And then there's some people who, you know, because like if you can just like sing.

Right, right, right, right, right. It's not bad. And then there's people who can sing. Thank you. That's so nice. When you can just listen to the song of the voice. That's nice.

Sometimes you listen to the words. Nick is actually working for Pitchfork now as a music critic. I don't know. Like sometimes there's certain people who sing where I'm just like, wow. Yeah, the pipes. I don't know. Like sometimes there's certain people who sing where I'm just like, wow. Yeah, the pipes. Anyways,

very good. Thank you. And also Bachelor in Paradise fan. Yes. Huge. And expert critic, which is really important.

Coming in hot. Here. A couple housekeeping notes before we get into it. Tomorrow, because we, for all you reality TV fans out there, Love is Blind is out.

We've been watching. It's good. Compelling characters. We'll be recapping tomorrow with Laura Rugetti is with us, celebrity hairstylist and expert critic of Love is Blind. We'll be recapping episodes one through seven. Also texting off as our also talking about your latest pop culture topics.

But if you have been watching Love is Blind, we have as well. Lots to get into there. A lot of people talking about the Visine or the water fake pride droplets. Andrew? Is that his name? I wasn't too appalled by that.

Maybe it's because I've been desensitized. I just had higher hopes for him. I kind of thought he was a nugget and then it just popped the bubble of the nug. There's a 30% chance your favorite Bachelor alum has done that. Do you know who my favorite is or are you just assuming? Oh, I'm talking to the audience. I mean, I'm just saying people are just horrified by it.

And I'm just like... I've seen it done. I'm surprised they kept that in. I know. I was going to say, do you think he's pissed? If it's so common, I'm like,

why did they keep that in then? I mean, common for... I think it's how he played it. You know? And he goes... I thought the producer was very clever when he's like... The way he went about it. And then he goes,, you know? And he goes, I thought the producer was very clever when he's like, the way he went about it.

And then he goes, is this okay? And he goes, if your eyes hurt, by all means. Which, you know, interesting, clever. Anyways, we have a lot to get into with Love is Blind tomorrow and going deeper. So do not miss that. Anything else? My book's out. I don't know if you've what doing really well you

have a book um bachelor tea yeah so we all watched last week as casey collapsed to the ground um and he's actually taken to instagram to say that he hasn't walked in four months since the show so he said that he is one sad guy and said that he also still has three broken bones and has had three operations and in a post he said just to be clear this is my foot in a cast right now tonight i haven't walked in over four months um he also said like he couldn't get surgery right away because it was so swollen. He actually went on the Bachelor Happy Hour podcast and like said, I fainted when I opened my eyes. I didn't realize that my ankle was just destroyed. I actually tried to get up and that's when I saw my ankle. It looked like I had wedged a football into my ankle.

I don't know. The whole thing was quite the visuals. Like swollen. Yeah. Yeah. Like immediately swollen. I get to a hospital in Mexico he's trying to do. Yeah, like immediately swollen. I get to a hospital in Mexico and they have to put me under

and do a reduction on my ankle, which is basically putting it back into place. And then, you know, they have to do CT scans. He had three different bones that were broken. Your ankle is made up of three bones and I broke all three. So that's probably why he doesn't have much to stand on.

Does he regret starting the drama since that's how he caused his little accident? He says, I 100% stand by my choice to let Brittany know that someone was slandering her. Is it safe to say he might not have a broken ankle if he didn't start the drama? If he passed out because

of the panic attack that was as a result of the drama? Yeah. If it wasn't to do with heat or anything that was an external thing. I was as a result of the drama. That's how it aired. If it wasn't to do with heat or anything that was an external thing. I think his heart was racing when he saw the drama unfold on the

beach. If that was the case, I guess he has nothing no regrets. At this point, the leg is broken. No regrets. You're done. Might as well own it.

Well, we wish him well on his recovery. I hope he walks again. Yeah. There's still a positive prognosis. Is it prognosis? Yes. Yeah. We're on the road to recovery.

It just seems like a very long one. When might he walk again? You know what? It won't be until he's walking down to the beaches of paradise next year. He said about a week and a half ago, I was expecting to get the news that I'd be able to start walking at least with a cane again, but they did x-rays and one of my bones shifted a little bit. So to be 100% in the long run, I need another surgery.

So he's going to need another surgery. Another surgery? That's crazy. So that's four surgeries. He said, I'm still not even walking without a scooter. Poor guy.

Yeah. If I were him, I would have, if I could go back in time, time machine, I don't know if I would have started the drama. Maybe that's how you ask the question.

But if you really could go back and do it differently, because you can't. Yeah, because Becca asked him, do you have any regrets? Of course. And that's when he said i 100 yeah that's classic like yeah standing next to rodney yeah as opposed to somebody like catch me but maybe that's his regret yeah having like having johnny there who was actually the one ready to go we wish him well we wish him well yeah well soon casey so So Tino obviously had him on the show.

People had a lot of feedback about his interview. And he has been kind of off the grid social media wise, but decided to post after the episode went live. It was a little photo of him with the umbrella shot of him while he was on The Bachelorette. And he captioned it, This experience has pushed me further than I could have ever imagined, but I feel so blessed and lucky to have such amazing people in my life who saw me through it. Thank you to all the understanding and forgiving people who showed me support.

Your kindness means more to me than you'll ever realize. I'm ready to turn the page on this chapter and still know my story is going to have a great ending. So it seems like he's kind of tying that up with a bow. was posting on instagram this weekend he was partying with jason so moving on new chapter you know yeah i'm uh i appreciate uh all the people who uh listened if you haven't listened yet go check it out it's a doozy um yeah it seems like people overall thought he owned his decisions and did anything did everything he possibly could do given the situation he found himself in I mean certainly there's always going to be a handful of people that it just it seems like maybe Tino just reminded

them of someone who might have hurt them in the past and yeah like the ship had sailed or it's like nothing he was going to do was going to endear him to them but i think in this like getting to talk a little bit more and like condemn his actions himself as opposed to a back and forth conversation where it kind of looks like if he has anything to say in response he's it comes across as sometimes him like trying to defend his actions like i think yeah i mean i guess if if uh if short of you just being like i you know hold on to your kilts dearies peacock original the traitors is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a scottish

castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series

The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traitors Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean?

Just keep it simple. I'm making you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh.

Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV. Dude, this is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph.

All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Hello out there. I'm Aaron Habel of Generation Y, and with me is Jack Luna of Dark Topic. We'd like to introduce you to Marooned, a new podcast that's sure to capture your attention.

Tales of the catastrophically lost are what we have to offer. Hikers swallowed by the woods, explorers discovering nothing but destitution, true crime calamity, oddities of harrowing human experience. It's a museum of misadventure. Subscribe to Marooned wherever you find podcasts. We are waiting.

Please hurry. Thank you. I don't like the guy just because I've decided and you have the right to do that. I'd be curious if anyone, like what could he have done differently that would have actually changed your perspective? I mean, not necessarily you have to start liking him, but just him coming across as a guy who

sincerely hopes that he learns from his mistake. And if you don't agree, I'm curious, when you would make a mistake, what would you want people? How, what kind of grace are you hoping for, I guess, is the question. But who knows? Who knows? We wish Tino well on his journey of happiness. There are things that just make sense. And one of those is Framebridge because framing pictures.

Well, one, it's a lost art. Pictures of any kind in a home, just make it more homey. And not everything needs to live in the ground. Maybe start like taking in those and framing them and giving them as gifts. And you can do that with Framebridge. And the thing about framing stuff

is I think a lot of people don't do it because they don't know where to go and it's like expensive. Framebridge, they make it super easy. You just go to Framebridge, you upload your photos. If you have a physical piece to frame, great, they'll send you a a physical piece to frame, great.

They'll send you a complimentary package to safely mail it in. You can prove your items in dozens of frame styles. Choose your favorites or get free design help. The experts at FrameBridge custom frame your design and deliver your finished piece right to your door. Allie, tell us about your FrameBridge experience. to your door. Ali, tell us about your frame bridge experience. So I got this really high resolution, but like large file of a photo that my friend took of the Santa Monica pier. And I was like, this would be lovely decor in my apartment. And so I got it in this huge frame that goes above my bed. I have a queen size bed. It's like almost as big as it. And it came in the mail,

perfectly packaged in this white frame. It is like super high quality. So them printing it didn't like lower the resolution, even though it's blown up super big. An experience was... Just like seamless. Instead of paying hundreds of dollars

at a framing store, FrameBird starts at $39 plus free shipping. Order online or stop at a FrameBbridge store near you to work with a designer in person. Frame your photos or send someone the perfect gift today at framebridge.com. Remember, the holiday season is around the corner.

And give them the gift of love by framing a memory of the two of you. Framebridge.com. We said it. We want more Hungry Root. My favorite thing about Hungry Root is their like- Chickpea cookie dough. of you. Framebridge.com. It has no business being as good as it is. The tacos that I made with them. And like I had one skillet going with like the meat and one skillet going with the peppers and the onions. And I was like, oh, I am Gordon Ramsay. It's like maybe you get your groceries delivered. Maybe you do like some meal service kit where they send you like tiny little plastic bags of exactly the amount that you need for the recipe.

Hungry Root is like a beautiful marriage between those two things because you can it starts off with like pre-filling your cart with some good recipes you're inspired but from there you can customize so you can say like I know I actually want to do xyz other things so I'm going to get those ingredients it's just a really nice um combination of like self-directed and getting the experts help yeah and even if you like think you know the recipes that you want and then if you get those ingredients there's no reason you can't just mix and match once they're delivered to your home. Well, you heard it here. Right now, Hungry Root is offering the Vilefile listeners

30% off your first delivery. Free veggies for life. Just go to HungryRoot.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get 30% off your first delivery and get your free veggies for life. That's HungryRoot.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Sierra and Michael have been popping up online. Obviously, there's been a big discussion over, you know, Michael telling Sierra he wasn't necessarily ready for a relationship,

but then quickly... Has Michael responded at all? Falling in love with Danielle. Yeah, so he did respond to someone like a fan commenting they broke up before split week because of Danielle Has Michael responded at all? it the producers are like trying to make him look good and michael actually commented back at the fan and said nope i broke it off the second i felt like there wasn't a strong connection it would have been much more beneficial for me to wait until i received her rose but that didn't sit right with me so he's basically just saying he ended things because he didn't see it going further and he didn't want to lead her on uh i was i was watching this with joe and Serena last week in New York when I went, and Natasha, who Natasha experienced the Brandon and Piper of it all. And we were having a fruitful discussion. And I said, you know, and I love Michael.

I love Michael. I thought what Brandon and Piper did, specifically Brandon lying, he flat out lied to Natasha. But I said, sometimes the biggest difference between what's approved and not approved by the audience of Bachelor Nation just comes down to whether the producers or the show gives you permission, gives someone permission. Like, you know, I think Michael is a genuine guy. I think ultimately he ended it with Sierra, like he said, but I also think the show gave him permission to explore things with Sierra, even if he ultimately might have not thought deep down he was invested in her, you know? And had Brandon, let's say brandon

didn't get caught lying to natasha's face like the show gives people permission to lead people on and the show gives criticism to people who lead people on and will then vilify them for it and in most cases there's not much of a difference one's someone's getting permission and someone's not getting permission that's really at the end of the day all it comes down to but the difference between michael a and say brandon is that michael a maybe if nothing else thought to himself you know what i think if the producers really want me to keep me around, they'll figure it out. And I don't think I have anything here with Sierra. So I'm going to end the relationship.

And I guess we'll see. And my guess is that's exactly what happened. My guess is he had no idea about Danielle coming. I'm sure he knew she was coming at some point. I'm actually, I'm 99.99% sure he knew she was coming at some point. What's the history between him and Danielle? Because he was, was that mistaken? He was saying they had history, but then she was like, it's so nice to meet you. So it was because he, I guess, had posted something on Instagram and then she had thought,

oh, we have similar experiences because she lost her fiance and he lost his wife. So from what she said, it felt like then dm'd him and said you know from a fellow bachelor nation alum who's gone through something similar like wanted to reach out and connect so it was like all virtual it was messaging back and got it got it got it as opposed to actually meeting in person yeah so i don't know if they've physically knew each other but there was some rapport right right right some, right. Some sort. But yeah, I'm guessing he knew. And that's the thing. Whether you agree with what's going on or not,

I guess my point is it's all not too much different from each other. So I don't know if... I wouldn't die on any of these vines so to speak of defending or criticizing anyone's behavior i suppose because it's all bullshit is my general take but sierra had a little throwing shade moment as she would call it i would be yeah i think she has a right to be annoyed yeah so she posted you know the the t the TikTok sound that's like speak up and it says it like multiple times. So she used that audio and she like had little captions flash up and it was like something's missing.

And then she was like, speak up. And then it was like, she's moving too fast. Speak up. I'm not sure I'm ready. Speak up. And then finally, the last thing said said I never saw anything with you but needed to kill time and then her caption was I hadn't thrown shade before but this is me throwing it so she thinks Michael let her on and just needed to kill time I mean he did that's how

the show is set up yeah but is is Michael a wrong for you know, like what's the difference between, and this is kind of the theme of these two episodes, is what is the difference between, and we talk about this in dating in general, exploring a relationship or some connection or exploring even a non-connection of like, I don't know, you're here. You seem nice. I'm not necessarily seeing it. I don't even know if you're my type, you know, or maybe you are my type, but let's, let's talk and let's hang out, you know, and let's get to know each other. And then you talk and you have a conversation and you say something, I say something that, you know, you're like, oh, it's really liked that about you. That's really cool. You seem like a really thoughtful and you start making compliments and then, and then there's a rapport build. And then at the end of the day, someone's

just like, you know what? It's not really for me. Is that leading on or is that just exploring a possibility even if you didn't think that possibility was all that promising? I mean, it really, the devil's in the details of what you say, but like, what's the difference? Right. I was just going to say, it's all in what you say. I feel like if you're saying, oh, we have such a strong connection and I feel so X, Y, and Z about you. And then someone comes along and you change, then it's different. But yeah, I agree. I don't think that it's, especially when you're getting to know somebody, you need to kind of spend time with that person, figure out what they like, their interests, how they communicate. I don't think that's

leading on. I think that's just getting to know somebody yeah did my did did we do we remember anything michael saying that was egregious in terms of that went beyond the scope of simply getting to know sierra and and qualifying a connection like like natasha said like saying like saying i'm here for you i'm here for you we have a here for you. Or we have a connection. Or I'm really feeling something here. Like, trust me. You know, these are like words that Brandon used to Natasha last year. Because it was even like, I think about that scene that was so kind of cringy to me to watch when they were on the daybed. And she's going on and on about what a great stepmom she'll be and all this other stuff.

And he was pretty much just sitting there. Yeah, he went. Being like. Right. His response was, yeah. And he wasn't even looking at her. He was like staring off at the beach. Yeah.

And he said some nice things, but like he definitely was not necessarily validating or confirming from at least what we saw. Yeah. And it definitely comes down to a level of like kind of honor policy of your own emotional self-awareness where with things like that, it's Michael's the only one who really knows at what point he started to not view Sierra as a viable option anymore. And so as much as like as a person who might be rejected in the situation, you want to go back and like find an aha moment based on the evidence you have. You have such an impartial picture because like it's really something where

you have to do your own kind of reflection on how you're honestly feeling and i feel like that was such a theme of this episode of like with victoria and i'm sure we'll get into all of it but just to what extent is this person being fully honest and open with themselves and then in turn others about how they're strongly they're feeling about someone. Yeah, unless Sierra comes out with it. Because it's possible. The conversations were had that didn't get aired. So unless Sierra says, but in reality he actually said X, Y, or Z to me,

then while I understand why Sierra might feel the way she does, and I could see myself feeling that way or getting upset, but it might just be a mis misconnection i like i said last week i blame the show i think the show said i think they threw danielle and and michael in our faces so much and it was so obvious and so like i don't want to say lazy but like like they weren't fooling anyone and i think that just put a bad taste in everyone's mouth and made Michael A look bad. Even if he, you know, he had, he has nothing to do with sending Danielle down and he's, he's got nothing to do with that.

He can only have conversations with the people in front of him. And he did. And then, you know. Right. And he wasn't like scrounging around for a rose. Like he wasn't like really trying to chat up Britney at the rose ceremony. Like, I think it'd be one thing if you were really like, like exploring new connections the second Sierra left to try and stay in that ceremony. But it seems like he was kind of like, okay. He accepted that he was maybe going to go home. I was going to say, I feel like he had fully accepted that.

We should go pack up our bags no i think i think it's because the show hasn't even pretended that they're trying to make him the bachelor in paradise and i mean that's the fact that they let danielle stay on the beach while all the other women from like the original cast and technically she's part of that she got to hang out and they're literally like we'll do anything to make this relationship Anyway, any other tea before we really get into the meat of the episode? It's not necessarily tea, but it's a conversation that we've been keeping up with. Obviously, when we had Brie Springs on recently, and she was saying that she has a new podcast called But Who Cares recently, had Rachel Kirkconnell on there, talking again about the like, Tyler, Cameron, is there beef? Is there not? It just feels like that we keep circling back to do they get along and are they friends uh but rachel said that there's nothing

going on between her and tyler it's a brother sister relationship and she went on to say just because he and matt don't hang out every day like they didn't quarantine doesn't mean they hate each other now and she kind of was like so i don't even really know what tyler's talking about so i just feel like we're getting different. What about that last part? Oh, well, that's, see, every time either of them talk. Mm-hmm. There's a little nugget that is a question. They always say, they always diffuse the bomb.

And then the last words out of their mouth are like, but I don't know. Like, you know, when Tyler was like, he called her the old ball and chain or something. You know? And so, yeah. Yeah. The love-hate relationship. The ball and chain or something you know and so yeah so yeah the love hate relationship the ball and like it's like yeah i don't know if you're both just responding to oh that's the thing because that happens all the time there you know there are fans in bachelor nation or fans of any kind and you would know this about this Natasha, that they will create drama between other people, you know,

and oftentimes with this show, you know, we'll be talking about cast people. And I know that most bachelor alums aren't listening to this recap. I'm a lot of them do a lot of them don't. But if an audience member will say, I can't, do you believe what they said to you in the

vile files? And like, I mean, it's just to hear that as triggering and then you don't even listen to it. And then something is pulled, you know, and then people will start drama and things like that. So all of this might be coming from them just reading plus press clippings and clickbait type of articles. And there's this element of element of yeah there's nothing really going on but in case there is i'm gonna throw some like weird yeah it's just like they always drop that like little grenade but you think is that to like keep themselves safe maybe if the other person is gonna go say something you know i what i feel like it is is that they're not each other's favorite person and but they're also not in a feud you know uh matt matt's the glue and and and and uh rachel's right they're they're adults

you know like the whole like quarantine crew of like tyler and matt hanging out like college roommates every day like fun and cute and endearing but like honestly if they were still doing that it's kind of fucking weird you know yeah like these are adult men who are like living their lives and and focusing on their careers and relationships and they can't be obsessed with each other constantly living in maybe different parts of the country and and i know we all love to see a good Tyler and Matt TikTok roundup, but it kind of would be weird if they were obsessively hanging out every day like they seem to be early on.

I feel like so many guys, especially in their 20s, have a best, best friend who is like their ride or die. Like I've noticed a lot of like my male friends have like one best friend in a way that like my female friends like tend to have like several. What's the opposite? Really?

I feel like there's a lot. What's the opposite for you? I feel like, again, this is just my perception. I could be wrong. That a lot, I know, I feel like all women, this has been my theory,

that all women always have they have friends a group friend but they always have one ride or die and that can vary like that might go through cycles or whatever but there's always a there's a bestie or and again men as well but I felt like I've had more lots of close friends without like one but maybe that's just yeah I thought the opposite of you interesting I just think it's like I agree that usually there's like within any actually for like men women any gender like there's your point person at any given time like the person who's the most up to date who kind of like knows the most about what's going on in daily life I just feel like there's so many men who I'm like, oh my God, you had like,

like you had this really significant friendship that like either started in like before high school for so many of them. It's like their friend from like middle school or high school or even college. And then there's just like so close with that one other guy for several, several years. But it's also like, I can see see that and one of my guy friends has that guy friend and they've known each other forever but then i'll ask him about him and he really doesn't know that much about him they don't dive as deep as women do and so he's like well i don't know what he's up to like they don't get to that same level i feel like half the time yeah oh they can say they're best friends and have been best friends their entire lives and will

be each other's best man. But like, I feel like girls are like, oh my God. You don't know the inner workings of their brain, you know? My left eye is twitching this morning and I don't know why. And then they're going to be like, wait, okay, did you have dairy this weekend? Yeah. Because I know. Yep.

Exactly. Guys might not be that in tune. In tune. But yeah. So yeah, Tyler and Rachel still hate each other basically is the takeaway. Well and just the comment of

I have no idea what he's talking about. I'm like so you're not only like negating what he said but kind of being like he's crazy. He's making shit up.

It might just be a throwaway and we're just creating drama that's not there. Correct. But that's what we do here on the Vile Files. Create drama? No.

Observe it. Am I the drama? I don't think I'm the drama maybe I'm the drama alright let's let's get into the episode it opens with Lace

and and Rodney breaking up so I watched this episode after having sat in the car like all day driving back

from a wedding and I was like oh I haven't moved like maybe just to like move my body a little was like oh I haven't moved like maybe just like move my body a little bit like every time someone says this kind of thing I'll do a squat and I was like every time someone cries I'll do a plank I stopped that and after like 90 seconds of lace crying I was like I can't do this anymore these muscles because it was really like it was a sad it was sad breakup for lace yeah yeah what did you think Natasha I felt bad I thought it was a sad it was sad breakup for lace yeah yeah what did you think i felt bad i thought it

was a little i don't know i thought it was a little dramatic to come storm down on the beach and come and like right after the date but i did think it was really sad i think he was very honest though about his feelings which was nice and it's never easy to hear that but at least it wasn't you know drawn out and she kind of had to like watch that go on for however many days until like the next rose ceremony so i don't know i felt bad yeah i uh i wrote down lace is a star was my first one i just think she is you know what you're getting from laceace. She is real. She is an authentic person down here. I think she is a one percenter on the beach with someone who's actually truly authentic.

And I love everyone down there, but I think it's very hard for people to be their truest selves. I think everyone's on some level these days on Bachelor in Paradise playing a bit of a character. Like curating the version of themselves. 100%. And Lace is just simply lace

and i appreciate that yeah like i think uh what did lace did what we talk about all the time what she she knew she liked someone she came down she tried to set a boundary by saying i only want to date you if it's not you I don't want to be here. She communicated that. She communicated that when, if, and it seemed like Lace, I think she stopped short of saying this specifically, but she kind of implied that she, you know, if she had to flip, you know, guess on, on if things were going to go her way, that she would guess that they might not go her way. I think she suspected that they didn't have the strongest connection when they left compared to maybe some of the other ones. And yet she still asked the tough questions, which so many people avoid and don't do. So props to Lace for doing that and getting some clarity and finding out quickly, because a lot of people don't do that. I also wrote down,

what's the difference between Rodney and Lace and Michael and Sierra. It was kind of my point of like, you know, it's all just the show is kind of giving Rodney permission to. Well, I don't think Rodney didn't tell Lace, I'm not ready for things to move fast. I think that's the only and I don't think I think Michael could have been truly not ready for things to move fast with Sierra. And then sometimes with a different person, you're prepared for a different. So is that the criticism with Michael?

Because it was more like, Hey, I don't want to, I'm not ready for a relationship. And bam, now I'm ready for a relationship. That would be my, the only thing that I would flag as potentially being like a pain point.

I don't know that he's being like criticized for that as a whole, but from my perspective, that was the only thing where I could see that kind of being like, that stings a little bit. Now that I'm like, I don't think Michael's a fuck boy well i think anyone's but like it is a like i always say it's just like you're not ready until you until you are ready until you meet someone who you want to be ready for you know so i think that's just kind of semantics and i know it stings when you're the person receiving the

hey i'm just not ready for a relationship right now and then like a week later that person is dating someone else and it sucks but like you know there were a couple moments like nally and i were watching it or where which one was it oh i forgot what breakup, but it was some, oh, it was Jacob. And Jacob and his classic kind of, Jacob clearly says things. He just says things. And some of them he could just not say. Yeah. But I think he is a high character person.

We'll get into that. But I think he just doesn't know sometimes what to say. But like, and Natalie was just just like I can't believe you said that and I I only said to her is like yeah no I mean it's harsh but or or it's just like I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes you have to be honest to let them think you're the bad guy so that they can move on and it might sound harsh or sometimes when you you know it's when you're going through a breakup I think you know to try you know, dissect everything that's said and then hang on to that thing. You're hanging on to like the two sentences out of a paragraph that they said, you know. You know, exactly.

So it's just like, I'm sure in Bachelor Nation with Michael's probably hanging on to the I'm not ready, you know, or I don't know if I'm ready. Right. And maybe he was very much feeling that with someone he didn't feel connected with kind of thing. on to the I'm not ready, you know, or I don't know if I'm ready. Right. And maybe he was very much feeling that with someone he didn't feel connected with kind of thing. So it's it's just interesting how we perceive breakups depending on who we connect with or who we relate to in that specific scenario. A hundred percent. So lace.

And the other thing that I think was big about lace like going there was her planting one planting the seeds that the girls have men to. Yeah. And I feel like there was like one other kind of like plot device thing where it was like I was so shocked. Like why were the guys really think that the girls are just going to be trapped up in a tower and not have any opportunity to date people while they're frolicking on the beach. I was like, come on, guys. What are they going to do? Sit there for a week? Twiddling their thumbs? Just waiting. Exactly. I think it's probably a common thing that we, as a perfect example of how we don't think. And by people,

it's just like, you're the star of your own show. So I feel like these guys felt like they were being platformed as the star of your own show. So, like, I feel like these guys felt like they were being platformed as, like, the stars because it was on the beach, right? They just thought, yeah, I honestly probably, they probably didn't think, and they probably thought they're going to get locked up

into the Vedanta and their own rooms. They probably thought they're going to be put back in the rooms that they were all staying in prior to coming down on the beach. And, yeah, they probably didn't think. Also, the difference in the men before and after Lace's conversation with Rodney, because when she originally came down,

it was very like, what are you doing here, Lace? Yes. Where are the other girls? Why did you come? Like, da-da-da-da-da. And then the second that they see her crying and heartbroken and Rodney ending it,

Michael goes, yo, honey, and gives her a hug. And they're like, I feel for Lace, man. She came down here a second time. She's really trying and it's got to be really hard. I was like, you were the ones just like basically trying to get her off of the beach two seconds ago and being super aggressive about why she was there. Yeah, it's like one of those moments where the humanity breaks through, like where you can tell there's this shift from like this calculated like kind of the way you have to always have your back in paradise like what's going on how am i what's my take on this where am i aligning to like oh sad person sad person yeah i spend a lot of time with who it's like never fun to watch someone be sad totally i have a note here it says i forgot who said it i was going to go back and watch

but i thought someone said you can only leave with your heart. Yeah, so Johnny said you can either leave with your brain or your heart. Johnny had some good lines. Didn't say leave or laid. I didn't know, and I was wondering the same thing. Because one makes kind of sense. You can only leave with your heart. Okay, well, I don't think you only can, but it is a choice.

Sure. But what do you mean leave with your heart? Well, that's what I was questioning too, but he kind of made it seem like if you were, quote, leaving with your heart, it kind of meant you were heartbroken. But he was like, you can either, you basically prioritize your brain or your heart. And if you're just going to put your heart out all on the line, you're going to hurt more. But at least you gave it a good college try. I feel like that's where he was going with it.

It was so unclear. And he also said, I think he said that geography, he was like, geography beach, was so proud of himself. I'm on a roll and then stopped making sense. Yeah, I thought he was deep in thought. I get what he was saying. He's actually right. You know, I really think, I mean, Johnny is right. You know, people have two choices in paradise.

Right now, most people choose the latter but you can go down there and just simply embrace the insanity that is the expectation to find what you believe is love to get engaged to let yourself really embrace these high stakes high emotion environments or you can you know analyze everything for its you know genuineness and and question everything and you know those are the two choices people have and i guess johnny in a weird way tried to say that i didn't you can only leave with your heart okay and then it was like well maybe it means lead because that sounds better yeah but we don't know i wrote down leave but i because that's what it sounded like but maybe he's just has one of those voices where it's hard to maybe before we get into like all of

the changes that happen i'm curious for you natasha like going into this with the established couples like where were you at with them which ones were you really rooting for which ones did you think were strong i like aaron and genevieve i think they were a strong couple i wasn't really like expecting i don't know i wasn't expecting either one of them to waver i was not expecting for logan to take such a turn and And what do you mean by that? I just thought he, I mean, I still think he's very sweet and kind and all this stuff,

but I think he, at the beginning was like very cautious about the date. It seemed. And then the second they formed this connection, he was like, Oh, well this is my girl now. And I'm,

you know, done with whatever. I, Logan, I just have a big question mark next to Logan's name. He doesn't make any sense. What an enigma. There's something about his energy, clearly.

Because everybody, men, women, people feel very captivated by him. Everyone is asking him on dates. I'll tell you what. He's tall. And I think he's in-person is my guess my guess is he's one of those people you see you go I get it and he's he's very low energy most of the time and you're like I see myself in him well I see that aspect of him and he doesn't and and so often he's quiet but he's not a quiet person like he clearly can articulate a thought and he has thoughts.

And when he shares them, he'll probably, he probably rambles. But I think that gives him an element of mystery. And you think you have other guys who are more, less mysterious, I guess I'll just say. More or less mysterious. More or less mysterious. And I think just say more or less mysterious more or less mysterious and i think that's his shtick yeah i thought it was so interesting building off of what you said natasha like when the girls did come back and the difference between genevieve and aaron who are like no i didn't even look at anyone else like and then shanae and logan like sit down for a

business meeting about which dates they've gone on and who they've kissed like it was just two completely opposite reunions speaking of opposite reunions um jacob and jill that was the most uncomfortable interaction i feel like jacob i really like jacob i really like jacob i think i i think jacob i it's hard to judge someone's character by this show, but I'm going to go on a limb, and I think Jacob is a high character person. And what I mean by that, and that's all I really judge people on, is that I think he truly cares about doing the right thing. I think he will do the right thing when other people aren't looking. I think he's a different kind of guy, and I think he has random thoughts that he could probably learn to not say at certain times that might come across as off-putting and he's eccentric but I think he genuinely has a good heart and wants to do the right thing I think he cares about people I think

he wants to you know I really I really think he's a good guy I do I totally agree I think he has a great heart behind him i just think some of the interactions just make me laugh because they're a little awkward but i don't think that i don't think that it's like malicious or that it's you know comes with bad intention i just think it's funny and you just sit there and cringe a little bit but again it's like i don't think it's yeah totally uh all right before we get back into the reunions, let's how worried do we think Brandon actually was? Like when Brandon had his mini meltdown, was he, you know, was it Michelle PTSD or. Or was he just like, you know, I'll throw a fit for you guys.

Do we believe at first I doubted it, but then and then I believed him because I really think the Michelle Michelle, I think this hasn't been that long since he was on Michelle's season. I think Brandon is someone who is choosing to leave with his heart and the words of Johnny or lead. I think they, the people who want you to buy a boat, were probably asking him a lot of questions and planting seeds of doubt in his head. the people who want you to buy a boat were probably asking him a lot of questions and and and planting seeds of doubt in his head and i actually i don't know what do you guys thought it was genuine and i feel like it it's complimentary to serene because he clearly knows that she's like

so beautiful and such a catch and sees like what a great woman she is. So he's probably like, oh yeah, of course, she's going to be sought after by everyone. But yeah, I guess if in his mind, he genuinely thought that she was locked away and not seeing anyone and he knew that he wasn't doing anything, they were just a sure thing. And then suddenly his whole universe shifted. Yeah.

You know, it'll fuck you up. They really dragged. I really didn't think it would last that long but they they clearly knew it was like last week when the new people showed up there were well the men seemed to embrace that more than the women but it seemed like the first reaction was loyalty loyalty loyalty and then as we they're just like we'll just let these hot people just keep hanging out there and maybe some conversations will happen. And eventually, we'll actually get into testing some of these relationships. But it's like they almost had to let it marinate over at the Vedanta.

Speaking of marinating, Natasha, what did you think about Alex and Victoria suddenly having a connection over the hair stroking? That's where it all began. I don't know how I feel because I really liked her and Johnny together. So kind of seeing her and I get it. I actually loved when she was saying like I was purposely not trying to talk to him because I knew that that's a normal type of guy that I go for, which I think was smart on her part if she wanted to stay true to Johnny. But obviously them kind of connecting, they just seem so different to me. So I feel like it's very hard for me to, I don't even know, like compare the two relationships. I don't dislike her and Alex, but I also really like her and Johnny.

So I think it's just hard for me. What do we think of the, I guess, it sounds like we were led to believe that like the first move was the head scratch yeah bold i thought it was cute she i'll be sure she liked it yeah right right what if she didn't then i understand yeah that's not an opener that's like yeah i can't really go one way you know he scratched my head and just felt like it was the thing I needed the most. Or to like, he just started rubbing my head. Like Peter, Pizza Peter does that?

Oh my God, he's in jail. If Pizza Peter does that, they're locking him up. Like a bunch of women and men from the beach are coming down there. Jill is leading the charge. They're confronting him. They're calling him all these names.

100%. But do you think there was like a little bit of flirtation prior to this that would have led for him to do something like that that we just didn't see? Yes. And I also think it had to do with her body language too. Like if she was like sitting at the pool with a margarita and like, and he just came up and started like, that would have been weird. But like she's on the couch. you can tell she's like exhausted if you looked at her body language from that camera like she was in the couch cushion like she was just like in a little heap yeah and everyone was sleeping it was like it was a different vibe yeah you guys bring up a

good point if you're johnny and you're watching this back do you go so he just started rubbing your head explain this to me there was nothing out of nowhere I'd love some context he's just rubbing people's heads I think I yeah I presume it would have they must have had some kind of connection because like the reason we would like

crucify pizza Peter if he did this is because you don't want people touching you when you don't want to be touched and it's touching your head or face without you like wanting it is one of the most offensive things i feel like prior to this interaction there is some type of unspoken tension 100 you can just tell i feel like when you're in a room with someone and you guys vibe regardless of if you're outwardly flirting you can just tell there's an energy and an attraction so i feel like based off that he felt confident enough to go okay i'm just gonna make my move and know that she's gonna be into it you know he's i mean he's hot so there's that yeah but also the action it's not like inherently

sexual like it's a very just like very intimate though it's very intimate and it's very affectionate i think i think it was but it's not sexual yeah yeah agree. If you were sitting on a chair and I just walked up behind you and started. Not you, Nick. That's exactly my point. Exactly my point. Well, it's about the context and the person. Yeah. Like my dad has done that before.

Sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? But incredibly intimate. Incredibly intimate. We're not saying sexual we're saying intimate close nurturing you know yeah like personal space a level of trust and comfort is required for you to just relax you know because like she had a very yeah she needed that as she said she needed to relax yeah and she said in the moment

she was like that feels so good i know she was giving him affirmations so it clearly was a moment that worked for both of them. Yeah, I agree. But it could have gone south. I'm Johnny. I'm like, sus. Yeah. All right.

There are a couple of things I wrote down I want to discuss with you ladies. And it was just like, you know, I love noticing things people say and then like actually thinking about what they're saying. Brandon wrote while he was freaking out. If I'm acting like this then i know i love her so it's like if i'm freaking out if i'm losing my mind and then it must be love and i it's such a relatable feeling this is not to criticize brandon i've said shit like that before we've all said shit like that before but We've all said shit like that before. But when you really think about what he's actually saying, clearly, like, obviously it's a terribly, it's a terrible frame of mind to have, like all these things that could be like, like, I don't doubt that he like,

it makes, it kind of puts things in perspective, but also you're like, you just got done comparing how it makes you feel like how it reminded you of a past relationship or a past pain or feeling rejected and what role maybe your ego played in that or feeling embarrassed or taking away. And I can imagine why he doesn't want to relive that traumatic experience and why he's holding onto that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. None of which means that you two know how to love each other and make each other feel love. I believe in their relationship. I think they're a great relationship,

but it's just those things we say out loud I just find fascinating. Any thoughts on that at all? Is it love? Is it infatuation? Is it fear? It reminds me of the song, the one that's like,

only love can hurt like this. It's like equating such a... How does that song go? Natasha? I'm not singing it. It's a TikTok sound. But it's like you equate these huge emotions, whether good or bad. And they're like, oh, it must be love.

It's like when you break up with someone and you're devastated. You're like, oh, it must have been love. Yeah. Just because you are having this emotion. I think there's so many other things that it could be. I mean, it could be. I think that it could be. It could be. But. I think there's so many other things that it could be. I mean, it could be. Could be. I think that it could be.

Could be. But I think there's also a lot of things that also could be. Yeah. There's that essay in my book that said the pain doesn't mean that they were special. Mm-hmm.

Correct. Something like that. Yeah. But yeah, it's just like we are so quick to like elevate someone because we're afraid of losing something

or we're scared or ego's just like, don't fuck it up. You're a loser. You know, something like that. Another, another line that I really enjoyed. Jacob goes, he says, I have a real romantic connection. And I'm thinking, what does that mean? I feel like you you guys tell me if you agree or not, that when people say, I feel like I have a real romantic connection, what they are trying to say or what they believe they're saying more importantly

is I feel like I have a real emotional connection with someone. Because what is a romantic connection? I mean, couldn't you like go on a romantic date with someone you like, what does that even mean a romantic connection? I don't you like go on a romantic date with someone you like what does that even mean a romantic connection i don't um it's an honest question because it just seems so it feels like kind of shade or not maybe shade but inherently comparing to jill where it's like as opposed to like something that's more fun and more of a fling like adding romance to the mix is maybe meant to be like no like i i see this as more serious and more of a fling like adding romance to the mix is maybe meant to be like

no like i i see this as more serious and more like there's more emotional gravity as opposed to i really hit it off with this person and we like get along super well so you think it actually means something it's just a nicer way of saying i want to fuck i think it's like the comparison by saying i have an actual romantic connection but what is a romantic connection is what is my question i think it's that if it wasn't there before i think romantic connection. What is a romantic connection? Is my question. I think it's that if it wasn't there before. I think it's less about what a romantic connection is and what does it mean if it wasn't there. He's kind of implying that it wasn't there with Jill.

And I think with that, it implies some kind of longevity or deeper, I guess, emotional investment. Well, that's what I'm curious. Yeah, but I feel like he could still have an emotional connection with Jill. No? Romantic is like... Physical. Is romantic sexual?

Yeah. I don't know. I feel it is. I think it is. I'd love to know when Jacob said, I have a real romantic connection with her, I would love to have been there. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by a romantic connection? I'm just curious what he means by that.

I feel like there is more longevity to that and more, I don't want to say like romantic because that's literally what we're talking about, but it is, it's like, there's more sexual attraction, longevity. You can see this person spending day in, day out versus I have a connection. I really like use a person.

I think we get along we have great banter whatever but there's not this like spark i feel like with romance there is a you know a different type of spark you could also argue though like i i hear you with like the longevity and this is someone that i could like leave here with and build a life with and whatever but you could also argue you could have uh a sexual with someone, but it's just sex. Like he could be like, well, Jill's hot and like I would fuck her, but I don't want to build a life with her. I think romantic means I want to date. Like I have a romantic connection.

Like romance, I equate also with like true like love, not just lust and like I think you're hot and I want to hook up. I don't know what I mean. He could be like, Jill is a friend or he could be like, Jill, I just want to hook up with, but neither of them necessarily mean I want to date you. I want to love you. I want to have your children. Right. They want to love you.

See, that makes sense. I just feel like a romantic connection is hard for people to articulate when they say that, what it means. When you say like oh i have a emotional connection with someone my guess is you're saying things like we just really connect like i think michael and sierra would say like michael might say i have an emotional connection to sierra before when they were like when they were really vibing there's a period of time when they were really like talking a connection i mean a connection like i also we we

throw out the word connection so loosely i don't know i think it just sounds nice to connection i mean a connection like i also we we throw out the word connection so loosely i don't know i think it just sounds nice to say i have a romantic connection where i think jacob was just like i really like that she straddled me in the hot tub and i think we say things like i have a romantic connection because it sounds nice and when we actually are trying to explain it to someone, it doesn't sound much different than, well, I really liked it when she showed me. Right. You know, or when you said, well, I want to like someone or because, yeah, because I think we see

people that we date and immediately there's something inside that goes, you know, like whatever it is, we're that spark, you know, and maybe that spark usually comes from them like a physical attraction or we're interested in like something they say, or we think they're, we're captivated by what they do for a living and then we'll decide there's something intangible there. And I don't know if it's a connection though. I guess what we're trying to say is there's, you know, you'll say there's romance there. I don't know if it's a connection though I guess what we're trying to say is there's you know you'll say there's romance there I wanted to make out with yeah like yeah but I feel like I let them touch my head but but with romantic connection I feel like it's different than saying we have sexual chemistry or like we have a physical connection because it's like you can

definitely have that with someone that you think is hot or whatever but like having romances is I have I feel like it's both right it's like emotional and physical and there's longevity do you know what I mean because if because if you if you're just friends with someone you can say we have an emotional connection like I love connecting with this person getting deep in our feelings this person not so much but physically I'm very attracted to them we have sexual chemistry. And then romance is like, that's both. And that's what you want in a partner long-term, right? I guess it just depends on what you mean by that, yeah.

I'm not saying that's like, I don't think, I don't know if that is the correct term for maybe what like he was feeling or whatever. But I'm saying when I say romantic connection, that is where my head's at. It's all encompassing. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Maybe that's what Jacob meant. Jacob's probably like, yeah, fuck yeah. Perfect. Nailed it. Danielle and Michael let us know that their love language is napping. There is something intimate about napping.

If we're going to call head scratching intimate, I would argue napping is similar. I think napping is very intimate. Yeah. I guess. But I don't know. It just, all I could think about is, yeah,

the most exciting thing about this relationship is you guys sleep. Well, I wish we saw more of this episode from them. I know there was a lot going on, but I just felt like it,

I don't know. Maybe there's nothing to see. That's what I'm thinking. I know. Because Michael's our little prince. And so, if there was love story to show,

I think we'd get it, right? But don't you think-'d get it, right? They look so bored around each other. They literally just sit there and awkwardly giggle and don't know what to say. So they'd be like, napping is our love language. Ha ha ha ha.

Let's go back to bed. Let's go back to bed. But I think there's something to be said about feeling so comfortable and so safe to the point where it is boring. And I feel like I didn't think about that until like my day two on Paradise where emotions are maximized beyond your control. I just feel like it points to an actual connection when you're like, oh, I feel safe. I don't feel the need to be loud or have these like crazy fireworks because we just feel very comfortable and good around each other i do agree with that yeah i don't know if that's the case but i do agree with that i get what you're saying in a relationship

yeah and i guess they're in one but it did just start I don't know if it's more than a couple days old. Yeah, but they're not 23. And also they have bonded over something that is a lot deeper than maybe what the other couples are talking about and connecting over. So maybe it's just, okay, I've already gotten this off my chest. I just kind of want to relax and be with this person that I do enjoy. And now they have nothing else to say. So they're just going to nap. We don't know that. They're not just gonna know we don't know they're not showing us we don't have the footage you think the relationship they've worked so hard to craft

and build up and give an extra consideration in time and let danielle just like be there when no one else is there that they're not going to show like a riveting conversation about their connection and and them diving in and really like just being passionate or just passionate with their words they're not gonna show that i think they might further we still have like eight or nine more episodes like this is a long season i agree i feel like stuff might unfold with them i feel like this episode had so much drama attached to it with all of the rekindlings and the breakups and stuff like that that the existing connection kind of was like taking away

from the moment of the drama that was going on. So maybe we'll see more. I guarantee we get like an additional dinner portion and they talk about James and they like talk about how their lives are actually going to come together. No, yeah. I'm sure they'll have another date and they will talk about how their lives are actually going to come together. No, yeah. I'm sure they'll have another date and they will talk about their own lives. And then the other person will be like, that's nice.

No, I'm talking, I want to see two people get to know each other. Well, my question is, I feel like we don't usually see people napping unless they're doing it on the day beds. So are they spending off camera time together? Yeah. In paradise, you get to spend a lot of off-camera time together so is that maybe part of the reason that they enjoy it like they're like we lay up napping so much is because it's this time when they get to be very like free and unfiltered and not like camera ready could that be a component sure i mean i'm sure i don't know maybe i just don't think there's a ton of talking going on

i feel like you came into this with the agenda of being like bullshit love language. I just expected a little bit more from the relationship the show is trying to work so hard to get us to fall in love with. Sure. And I'm not falling in love with this relationship. I just think they're just going to like give each other's roses each of the roses from the next for the foreseeable future you don't feel the romantic connection I yeah I don't know I feel like it's hard at least on this last episode I I agree with you like I'm not falling in love with their relationship but they're trying so hard but I

also feel like they didn't try that hard this episode to really in like entice us with that so I'm like okay let's just wait and see until the following episodes. Maybe wait and see. All right, so then we got Kate. Kate gets a day card. We think Logan and Sarah are a thing, and then all of a sudden Kate gets a...

It's Kate, right? Yeah, Kate. I wrote down Kate. Uninterested, I wrote down. You're uninterested in Kate? Uninterested or she's uninterested? I'm you're uninterested uninterested or she's uninterested i'm fine i'm uninterested in kate well kate works for the oppenheim group on selling sunset how does she she does no way yeah she's that one person uh-huh and she found her way back she found her way back what does she do again well she's not on selling sunset but she's like she works for the

auburn yeah she's posted with like brett and jason before and that was kind of like people flagged that when she went on the bachelor of oh this girl's from the auburn i'm group but she clearly didn't have a long stint on the bachelor either so maybe she'll be on selling sunset now i don't know i mean she's not one of the... She has less of a chance now. Yeah. Well, I mean, at least for another year. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure she seems nice and all.

I just, I'm not that interested in getting to know... I think she's just like a... She's not a main character, I guess, in my mind. She doesn't bring main character energy. Yeah. Nevertheless, she broke up with Jacob. Again, speaking of Jacob's's character the guy just got dumped and he just goes and sits back down with the group and just watches her take logan on a

date and i don't know i just feel like he was more like yeah i can take this you know and like if he needed a moment i would have like understood and he was just like no i'm just gonna watch this go down i wrote down the kiss did any did anyone think that was awkward when kiss uh when kate was sitting with logan and logan was like i'm here for you and she was like yes i'm here for you too like i love that like all this stuff and then right as they're having this intimate conversation jacob comes and he's like hey good morning and gives her a kiss right in front of Logan oh my god yeah and I was just like no idea so unaware and I literally was just like she's like bonding with Logan and then her other boyfriend appears kisses her in front of Logan

and Logan's just like and like chowing down on something behind her smiley but like 20 seconds prior was just like I'm yes I'm all in for you I'm here for you I'm so happy and then it was like good morning was this before she told Jacob yes it was like, good morning. I was like, oh. Was this before she told Jacob? Yes. I didn't realize something. Because Jacob was still under the impression that this was basically his girl. Because when she gets the date card, Jacob's rubbing his

hands. It was so sad. He was like, oh, yeah. So he had no idea that she was going behind his back. Which is why she was like, like Jacob can I talk to you before I give out this date card but there was it was that scene that was just excellent TV

but like breakfast before the date card even entered the picture exactly exactly of us knowing and Jacob being clueless and it seemed like everyone else was fairly clueless as well about her wanting to take Logan on the date especially Sierra or Sarah yes and it seemed like everyone else was fairly clueless as well about wanting to take logan on the date especially sierra or uh sarah yes yes yeah that was also a really endearing

when sarah i don't know who she asked but she asked someone to put her hand on she's like eliza right yeah it was just like very sweet that was really sweet i thought that was sweet and then logan like back to like i just have logan question mark and it sounds like he likes kate because at first i was like maybe just say no to a date you know because he's he's always saying yes but i mean he's must he's he likes kate so like good for him but then he like blamed the order it was like yeah it's just like the he has this weird he says weird things where it's just like yeah you know it's just like the order you know the order of what exactly well yeah because he was just i think the order in which he was asked out on dates oh you know it's just like it was almost like i think

he was trying to say it's like not my fault that kate asked me last and i have the strongest connection because if he would have gone out with kate first and if sarah would have asked him after he would have said no he's locked in on kate but do we believe that because he hasn't really locked in on anyone he's been on a lot of days he's gonna say yes to any date he gets asked on that's the impression but now he seems to be with kate well now after kate yeah and that's back to the original like question we posed like is it where do we draw the line between what like when you like you're weighing your options versus you're a fuck boy kind of thing you know it's like where where's that line and and the perception of a bunch of people out there dating because he he's he's walking a fine

teetering yeah i mean it comes down to what you tell people during the process if you're if you continue to lead them on if you're like if he had turned to sarah and said wait for me like hold out hope you know who's the biggest fuck boy of this these two episodes um wait i want to guess yeah shanae shanae i was just 100 she's just saying whatever the fuck i mean she wanted tyler didn't get tyler she like she's going back assuming logan's been waiting for her assuming assuming like and then making logan feel bad about it and i don't well she's also like yeah she was crying about tyler in the bed and then she was like but it's fine because i have logan like back looks like you don't love yeah so and listen go for it you know like the difference between i guess because some of these other people in chanel is that like chanel there's no like

happy medium i guess i don't i don't know what it is but like it's very like i think it's great that she's going for what she wants and that she is pursuing these relationships but it's it's a manner in which she's when she doesn't get what she wants what she's willing to say that's what I'm saying I feel like if you're going to go that route and kind of test your waters with other people kind of like I mean honestly the way I would say Logan is just be more coy about it don't be so blatant with what you're saying that it's like oh well you're just you're for everybody you know just be a little bit more I don't want to say secretive but do you guys know what I'm trying to say like subtle yeah just subtle yeah you know who I hope Sinead ends up with? Genevieve. Speaking of that. Can we talk about that?

Seriously. They are ripping shots. They're best friends. All right, so I wrote a question. So if Sinead and Genevieve were on different sides on Clayton season, whose side are they on now?

Did Genevieve go to Sinead's side or did Sinead go to Genevieve's side? I think they just basically agreed without actually verbally agreeing to pretend like it never happened. They were both calling the other person a bad person. They were just like, I can't, like it was a good versus evil, like type of dilemma. And now they're on the same side. And I'm just wondering which side do they think they went on?

Like, is Genevieve more like Sine or is Sine more like Genevieve or like, you know what I'm just wondering which side do they think they went on? Like, is Genevieve more like Sinead or is Sinead more like Genevieve or like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's fascinating when two people are just like, not like, I don't care for you, but like Genevieve, she came on this podcast and said some very choice words about Sinead,

you know, like she hated her. And they said that on the episode, they were like, we hated each other. And I'm just wondering like whose side whose side, who's, which one, who are they more like now? I think they both, to me, I just feel like for both of them, they're very much the way they're thinking about this is like, no bullshit.

Like, Sinead was like, no bullshit on the season. Like, everyone's being mean to me and like, all this stuff about like, no bullshit on the season. Like everyone's being mean to me and like all this stuff about like Elizabeth and all the drama. And then Genevieve was like, this is bullshit because you're doing like you're taking all this attention away from people. You are being disrespectful. And I think now that they're just like you, they now have a common definition of bullshit. I think their common glue is insecurity. Yeah, I guess a different flavor of that concept is like loyalty like i think they're both very like righteous loyal people totally i think they're that too but i think what what i think

they realize without saying it is oh we're insecure about the same things and we're not a threat to each other we actually our same fears our same insecurities as things that i worry about you worry about too and the reason why we hated each other is because we thought we're in direct conflict with that but oh you're worried about being enough you're worried about like you know i also think part of it was them just genuinely being like okay we can have a good time like we can be two little like mischievous like get up to some fuckery together. Because it started on the date with Aaron and James where it was like this setting of like camaraderie and friendship. And they were like, I feel like there were a moment where Genevieve like slapped Sinead's ass was like the slap heard around the world because it was like a truce.

Like it was really like in that moment, I was like, OK, like they're they're partying and having a good time. And I think we saw like some of their best friendship moments everyone the two of them are like just like being tweedled the entweedled dumb living shots together they're in the interview room together what do you think either of them learned from that interaction if anything do you mean like the overarching like arc of going from hating one another to i don't know don't you think that's kind of like a a big thing i used to hate you i used to talk shit about you i used to like think you i called you my arch enemy and now we're best friends and not much has happened in between we just you know got to know each other i'm just

curious if there's a takeaway other than my fear for them is they think it's just like, wow, how random, like as if it was random. I've just I don't know. Yeah, I think that's true of so many friendships or like relationships where like if you just met someone in a different circumstance and a different context, you'd have a really altered view of them because it's all about kind of like which side of someone comes out first because then you form this initial opinion and then you look for other like data that backs that up well also i think when in in friendships with competition when you're directly competing against somebody who you think is a threat to you you i mean the claws are out you know and when it's not that you cling on to that person because you two know that you're both strong individually so if you come together it's like oh we can conquer the world together and i feel like that's honestly how so many friendships are and why they end so badly because they might start like this together where you guys are so close and then the second there's something that comes

in between where you're competing it's world war three you know what i mean so i feel like this is just like the inverse of that where it started out. Do you think they're going to have a fight again at some point? I don't know, but like it would not surprise me at all. Genevieve and Sinead remind me

of like a WWE like tag team where like, and I don't know how many of you watch professional wrestling, but first your enemies, then you come together, then you're a tag team and then like there's a match where like you get hit by like someone else but you

think it's them and then that starts something like rivalry like and then you get back together like Genevieve and and Sinead have the makings of like an awesome WWE tag team that is going to sometimes hate each other and sometimes be the ultimate dynamic duo. To me, it's not as if you're it doesn't seem like a friendship that's built on so much connection as far as like, you're going to be in my life forever because you've had this experience and I've had this experience. I feel like it's just I don't want like piggyback on what you said, but just kind of the insecurity of like, oh, we're in the same boat and it's more comfortable to be together. So if something were to come in between that, I think it would be so easy for them to split.

Well, I was wondering, there was a point where Aaron is talking mad shit about Sinead in the interviews while Genevieve is comforting her. And I'm like, what's going on there? Like when this airs, is there going to be like are they good enough friends that Genevieve would be like babe what the fuck like why are you just like that that's my girl yeah yeah I was thinking of that too and I'll clearly Aaron thought he was being super funny and coming up with these like zingers in his ITMs that I personally thought were just kind of mean yeah Yeah. Yeah. He said that she should be in a padded room and that she needed a straight jacket.

And then he was like, put her in a rocket ship or something and like blast her off to a different planet. Yeah. And like, again, do I think she handled everything amazingly? No, but she has the right to feel or be upset and she has the right to feel or be upset and she has the right to like

talk to him like she confronted logan a couple times like she didn't do anything you know outrageous she had a strong point of view because she was a little bit in her feelings and only saw the situation through her lens of how things affected her she's certainly not the only one who does that we've all done that and done that. And Aaron's one to talk. Like Aaron, like last season, like everyone was out to get Aaron. He just lost his shit about everything. Yeah, I don't know.

You're right. I'm really curious how Aaron and if that affects their friendship. I have a question for all three of you, unrelated to the show, to what degree, on a scale of one to 10, are you capable? You know someone doesn't like you. You don't know much about them. You just know they don't like you. Or you have a small interaction with someone

and you've heard they don't like me. How much are you able to stay at least neutral and form your own opinion about who they are regardless of how they feel about you me zero yeah if they don't if they don't like me and they truly like don't know me i guess it doesn't really matter if they know me or not i would be like okay well fuck you i'm gonna go find someone else who does yeah i'm just like bye i feel i don't mean like you want to hang out with them but like just but like, you're just having like. Making a judgment on them. Right. Based on your own interactions or things that you've been told.

I mean, I guess it depends on how much. In the scenario I'm kind of giving, you don't know this person that well. You just, your first impression of them is that they don't like you. So how much are you able to like actually get to know them and or overcome that? Oh, I'm going to have to like hang out with them still? Like you're going to be in a group scenario or something. Well, I could put it on for a group. I think if bachelor people who don't know much about each other, they roam in various circles.

Someone hears, oh, I don't like them or you thought you didn't like them for what you saw on TV. So you, are you to what degree? So zero? You're not? Well. I think that's the, that's a very honest answer. And I think that's the norm. Well, okay. I will always be kind and I will always be nice.

I don't mean that. No, you're a very kind and nice person. I'm talking about what you think about them inside, whether or not you share it with someone else or a best friend. I'm not going to want to hang out with you, period. So I don't know. But would you be able, right let me let me give you another scenario you don't know this person all that well you hear from a house you hear that they don't care for you okay do i know why maybe but you're you're confident that it's inaccurate and they are making some grand assumptions about your personality and let's say they don't know you at all.

Okay. Maybe it's as a fan or someone who what they know about you might be the same information a fan might make a judgment off of you. Okay. And then let's just say you see them do or say something that you like or admire or would otherwise praise. Can you still do that knowing that this person

who doesn't know much about you, who hasn't taken the time to get to know you, has made a generalized assumption about you and who you are and your character? Are you capable of giving them that compliment and that recognition? Oh, for sure. Yes.

Because it's like, because then it's like you get to, your ego gets to feel like the bigger person. Like I, like I'm not even saying this out of place of like genuine goodness of like positivity. It feels good to radiate and reflect. But like genuinely, I think if someone doesn't like me, then a lot of the times my approach is like, like, especially if I feel like they don't know me, then in a situation like I, I'm like really fucking well behaved yeah like not fake not going out of my way because people can sniff that out so easily but i'm just like you don't like me

you're not you're not immediately standoffish no i'm nice to you because then it's like yeah oh you don't like it like the bird you know what i mean like you're giving them the finger by doing that almost totally like super indirectly but it's like to them if they don't like you and then you're just being kind of the opposite of whatever they think then it's like to them if they don't like you and then you're just being kind of the opposite of whatever they think then it's to them it's like oh i'm kind of an idiot it's like you want to get on the same page like you're wrong do you want to notice that i just don't think most people do that yeah i agree with you i think that's the best approach it's not coming from a place of like because i very much feel the human thing of like

i'm gonna prove you wrong but i just think the most effective way to go about it is to be like like let's be normal to each other yeah you know i just think most people's instinct is to immediately dislike someone and then match that energy of hate that they think they're receiving from that person yeah and then it snowballs into people hating each other and then when you're like why do you hate them you're just like i don't know like three years ago like i saw a tweet and you know the scenario which i actually think it would snowball more is if i heard someone was talking shit about my friend i would be a lot less willing to like be go in like more open-minded like i would be pleasant to them i wouldn't try to start shit but if they were talking shit about my friend i would really like clocked absolutely well the difference between that,

oh, you're going to say something. No, I think I would agree with that. I also think for me, if somebody doesn't like me or they don't, I'm not their cup of tea. Okay, great. You're not worth my time. I'm not really going to give you the time of day to be rude or give you the energy or whatever. But if you're rude to my friend, I have no tolerance for that. Like I don't, if I hear you talking about my friend negatively, like that's when I'm a little, I have a problem being more unbiased, you know? If you don't like me, it's like, okay, whatever. You don't know me. I really don't care.

I'm not going to take part or have an interest in getting to know you because clearly, like, your view of me is so skewed. And I really don't have any. I think like when I was younger, I used to have more of a desire to change people's perspective on me. Now I don't at all. I really don't care. But for my friends, I'm so protective of the people that I love that I'm like, oh, if you're being negative, absolutely not. You're done. Yeah, I think I agree with both of you. If it's about me, if I have the opportunity, I'll show them that they might be wrong. And if it's about my friend, I'll tell them that they're wrong.

Yes. Yeah. I'll be like, yeah, that thing you said. Let's talk about it. If it's about a friend. On the topic of shit talking, I thought it was really interesting in the moment when Kate and Sinead are having their conversation, which didn't need to happen right do we agree that like kate did not need to talk to shanae in that moment i agree and i didn't sure yeah but like did we like when kate went back to talk to shanae or that's still the same conversation i honestly couldn't tell i didn't think because shanae

definitely went up to them first right well no but shanae went up to logan, right? Well, no, but Sinead went up to Logan and was talking to Logan. I thought there was no need for Kate to go up to... It had nothing to do with them. It was literally digging the knife further. Yeah, like twisting it. And Sinead had every right to be like, you fucking talk shit about it, FR. And when Kate was just like,

that's different, I was like, how is it different? That's what I was going to bring up. Like, did you agree with her line of logic where, like, the way Kate justified it, she was like, that's different i was like how is it different that's what i was going to bring up like did you agree with her line of logic where like the way kate justified it she was like that's a wwe snack smackdown we're there to bring up drama from the season versus this is like we're all going in with like a new agenda no she's well first of all kate just acknowledged that she's full of shit right if best case scenario kate was kate was saying I'm a disingenuous person. I said things because I thought I was going to give me TV time. That's best case. Worst case is I'm a mean person who's going to say nasty things.

And I don't know who you are because Kate was making judgments about Sinead's character, most of which she wasn't even present for. She just watched. Well, I think it's I think best case scenario is Kate being like, this is the place to air out dirty laundry. Like, I got some dirty laundry being like this is the place to air out dirty laundry like i got some dirty laundry afr is the place but she didn't even have that many didn't have that much laundry but then when they replayed the clip i was like damn that was harsher than i remember it wasn't laundry she was locked in a closet i was like that's what i'm saying she she wasn't airing out dirty laundry she was just talking shit and being mean and she

was acknowledging that i was there to talk shit and be mean. I wasn't there to articulate an actual thought or a feel. Because that's what I'm saying. In my mind, Kate saying that, it's one of two things. Either she thought Sinead was a horrible person and she was justified for saying these things about Sinead. It's like, fine. If that's how you feel, then it's how you feel.

I don't agree with you and I think it's kind of mean, like whatever you speak your truth but kate was just more like well no it doesn't count because i'm fake i'm i was doing it to get here on the beach but now that here i'm on the beach now i see what you're saying i see both sides of it i do see that it is it can come off that way but also i do agree with it is it is context it's time and place and if you're saying all those things in that setting it's not it's not out of pocket i think it just doesn't qualify disqualify what kate said kate was trying to disqualify it being like well that doesn't this doesn't count yeah it was like immunity yeah it's like how do you get immunity like it's like yeah it's not business it's personal it's like well it's personal to me

you know like you you're literally talking about me on a national platform about my character. So yeah, it still counts, you know? And it feels kind of, cause here's my thing with Kate is that I really saw the connection with her and Logan. I thought they had phenomenal banter, so much chemistry. I also thought the way she talked to Jacob was really emotionally mature. She started by saying genuine things that you could tell she really liked about him by validating that like they did have something going on but by like describing what that was and describing why she wanted to move on with another connection without blaming him for anything he did like i thought logan's big mistake was that he was starting to blame what the fuck was that when

he was like well you went on a date with you and it's like no just say i have a different connection totally thank you for reminding me that what do you think oh no i was just gonna say i that's what When he was like, well, you went on a date with you. And it's like, no, just say I have a different connection. Totally. Thank you for reminding me of that. What do you think? No, I was just going to say, that's what shocked me, I think, more than anything, was he came across as so sweet and genuine and really wanted to get to know her. And then the second when they were having that conversation, he kind of was just dumping it all on her.

And like, well, you did this, you did this, you did this. And it's like, well, would you say that if like, like, I just feel like the scenario and if she hadn't come back and heard great it doesn't really you know semantics whether like shanae was like well i made you feel seen and heard it's like well it's not really your place to tell someone else how you made them feel nevertheless she that i blame logan for shanae's reaction as much as shanae because like she he did accuse yeah like own your feelings hey I just have a stronger connection I like her you know what we had I thought was great but like and I did think about you but like this is really something I feel like I've been looking for and you're so great and blah blah blah but like yeah bringing up like well and if I'm being if I'm keeping it real you did this exact same thing to me which means like as soon as you start blaming someone, as soon as you started blaming Sinead, that made that, that ruined his credibility.

Because when you start blaming someone, you're defending something. And then I'm thinking, well, what do I, why are you defending it? What, what's the reason you feel the need to defend your actions? Because like defending how you feel like there should be no need. I feel this way about this person. I like them. I have feel connected. There's nothing to describe. Clearly, I mean, once you get past the hurt, the other person's going to be like, yeah, I mean, like, I don't like them more, you know? But when you start saying, well, this behavior without that, you're not accusing me of that. You've said nothing to me at this point. I'm going to start defending by pointing out a behavior you did to me. Logan's literally saying, I'm guilty of the same behavior of kind of being a fuck boy and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And like, why bother? Or not communicating in the way you need to communicate for a relationship to be successful. Exactly. He was calling himself out by blaming Sinead for things that he thought she did. I also felt bad for Sinead because I think it was kind of this perfect storm of like a bunch of new women, a lot of whom were on Sinead's season

and still very much had this old view of her. And then her facing rejection after like being a really hot commodity in paradise. Like it would be fair for her to be a high horse, like be on a high horse. A lot of people showed interest in her, but then when like the rug gets pulled out from under her, she a lot like long farther to fall and so she comes back there's all these people who still have this other narrative of her and i thought i didn't think

she handled herself that badly like yeah she was upset but it felt like they were trying to provoke her well and it was i was thinking about that when you know she and kate are having that conversation on the beach and all the other women are watching it. And they're like coaching from the sides of like, Kate, get to higher ground. Like you're shorter than her, did it acting as if Sinead is still like this villainous person. And I'm like, Sinead just got the rug like ripped out from underneath her. She is currently left with no one. And yet they're acting like she's literally about to punch Kate in the face and that Kate is the one who needs to be like protected and on higher ground. And everyone's still so much team Kate.

I just think it was such a move to stir the pot by Kate going up to her. I just feel like there's legitimately no reason. Yeah. I think she was kind of. And Kate told on herself in the interview where she was like, yeah, there's a little part of me that feels proud. I kind of went up to her like I won this battle.

Low character moment. She told on herself. Yeah. She, she acknowledged that I got satisfaction from someone else's pain. Yeah. Which is like, again, it's human, but it's like really unbecoming. Like, it's not a happy part or like positive, beautiful part of being human. It's one of the ones that I feel like you kind of work on managing and controlling.

Yeah. Not like, not proudly admitting on national television. That's what I'm saying. Not everything needs to be said. Like be coy about it. That's how you feel. That's how you feel. But recognize that that's not like a cute trait. So just keep it to yourself. And also there's a lot of talk about pitting women against each other. And yes, there's definitely ways that like structures and institutions can do that. But I also think there's like a personal level of responsibility of not like pitching yourself against another woman and making it this competition that you win wait can i just say one thing before we can say three things i have it on like somewhere on my phone um i just

thought like this interaction and this is the same thing talking about jacob again just how he communicates i think is so funny when jill came back and she was like so excited to see him and whatever they have the little hug and you could tell he was super hoping that she had found somebody else and was like so like I'm sure you have so much to tell me like did you find someone else and she's like no no like what about you and he's like oh no no no same same honestly same and I was just dying it was really endearing that was my favorite part it was some other couple did that too when they were like so tell me about oh uh aaron and jenny or no uh britney and britney and uh andrew andrew they they had that too and britney was like so like before we i get tell you like what's been going on here like which uh who you've been fucking you

know like like he she definitely yeah it was just very relatable in terms of, but yeah, it was just funny to see people like wanting to find out, like hoping that they were actually making moves. Exactly. Versus like the Genevieve and Aaron, which that was a very sweet moment between those two.

I cried. That was so sweet. The music got me. It was a sweet moment. Like to have that fear, like that was so the music got me it was a it was a sweet moment like the defeat to have that fear like that must have felt like a real strong hit of drugs yeah especially because i feel like their relationship is so based on them wanting to meet each other's needs like it's not like they have this insane interpersonal chemistry that i saw that kicked things off i think it

started from a place of like jenny b's being like this is how i receive love and aaron being like hell yeah order up and now it feels really good to see him continue to do that on a larger scale yeah cheney also was a perfect example and i think she just threw what happened with tyler and britney and then logan for people out there wondering, like, why is your ex back? This was like watching, and Paradise in general, I think, is showing you what's really going on when you're wondering why your ex came back from the dead after they were so convinced that you two shouldn't be together, that they moved on. And Paradise is showing, like, the behind the scenes of what's going on with your ex when they go after someone else

or they get broken up with. Like Sinead, she was all in for Tyler. I mean, they made it seem like she was ready to like boom, boom, room it and like consummate that relationship. Then was she fighting with Tyler or was she fighting with Brittany behind closed doors when we didn't have access?

She was yelling with Genevieve. She was yelling with Genevieve. They made it sound like she was in a fight but then later they show it and it's like her and genevieve like hyping each other up being like yeah no fucking way like you know like really kind of okay getting it going yeah and then she comes back to logan and she's just like you know i just realized how much i missed you when i was gone and like how much of our connection was it was just so like oh my god like you didn't right you were hoping at one point he was making moves with other people right and just because then it didn't work out for you you're like oh well i'm back yeah you know and i believed

in the thing about shanae and then this is not a criticism of shanae again i think this is this very real world relatable is that shanae was very convincing shanae convinced herself she completely forgot about the tyler of it all and just can like she was genuinely sad and genuinely worried about logan's connection she was genuinely fearful that he had moved on but moments earlier she was hoping it was she she he was like hooking up with someone else because she didn't want to have to come down and be like so um here's the thing uh and i think it's this kind of it's a great reminder of of why people actually come back uh even though when they say they had to realize what they lost etc etc johnny and Johnny and Victoria will end with that.

What is the checklist, Victoria? I kind of liked, I mean, you know what I really liked about this conversation? I thought they were both valid. I thought it was so relatable. Yeah. Because he's seeking to understand, like, what is it about Alex that makes you be able to picture a life with him so easily? But I feel like, did she not kind of say that?

Sure, yeah. To an extent? I truly thought, I really, when they were both talking, I was thinking, that's a valid question, or that's a valid fear. And then the person would respond. I'd be like, that's a valid, you know, Victoria would respond with, be like,

I'm just trying to figure this out because, you know johnny was talking about chemistry victoria's talking about compatibility both important i would argue compatibility is more important but like uh they both have their place i agree with johnny like what do you mean checklist like what's the checklist you know like i don't want to be falling in love with off a checklist i don't think having a checklist when you're picking romantic partners, all that helpful. Anyways, I was very much team Johnny there. But when Victoria, it was just trying to articulate certain valid concerns.

Listen, if you like, what do you want to do with your life? Where do you want a career? It sounds like Johnny doesn't have a lot of answers in that department. And he's young and he'll figure it out, I have no doubt. But if you are someone who's decided that a non-negotiable for them at this stage of their life is, I want someone who's like ready to settle down and have kids and support a family and not have to figure out some of these other things that maybe Victoria spent a lot of time figuring out,

and maybe she really struggled with. And she's just like, want someone who's ready. Because like, you know, when I was younger, younger me wanted to be like, love conquers all. And it just doesn't matter where we're at. We'll figure it out. And like, unfortunately, like practical matters matter, you know, and those things can be non-negotiable. So Victoria had a right to like ask these questions. I think it was both valid and both like very relatable i i think that johnny maybe was taking the checklist as oh well he just marks all these boxes for you but do you feel something for him and i don't think that victoria would you know go all the way getting engaged with someone that she didn't feel that way towards but it's you need to have both there needs to be obviously chemistry but there

also needs to be are we on the same page of life? Do you want kids? Do you want to get married? Do you have a career? Can you support yourself? Like these things, which I think are 1000% valid and compatibility. And that is, I really believe like the longevity of a relationship, you know what I mean? So I think it's super valid. And I think she was also kind of saying, I don't feel comfortable probing for chemistry, seeing if it's there until I've had this conversation with johnny because it feels like cheating so while what i can feel like emotionally ethical doing is like talking to this person about their future like their wants like those compatibility things that aren't like raw romantic we're flirting stuff and then be like okay there's a lot there that i might like to

explore but like out of integrity and like just like like I owe to Johnny a conversation before I fully like dive in there. Yeah. And I, sorry to interrupt, but I also think it's fair to make sure that those qualifications are met before you're diving into that sort of romantic chemistry with somebody else, because then you do end up falling for someone and then you guys don't match up and it's like the worst heartbreak. So I think it's super fair for her to go on this date, figure out what he's about, go back to Johnny and say, look, this person is willing to give me all the things that I want. I want to be able to explore this. I also want to explore things with you. And her kind of asking him, like, tell me, like, what are your passions? What are your goals?

What are things that you want to accomplish? She was giving him the opportunity to speak on that. And he was dodging. 100%. I thought Victoria, the way she handled it was one of the more mature ways we've seen on Bachelor in Paradise. Because everything you just said, Natasha, it's just like, it's not the norm. Not the norm is to make sure I have chemistry with this person, make sure I have this intangible, and then figure out whether they're compatible. And probably because Johnny was in the picture, but I feel like we should do this more often, even when there's not someone in this picture, is actually making sure there's something there first

and then explore. And when there was someone there, like Victoria did, she did the more mature and thoughtful thing, which is she owed it to herself to challenge her relationship with Johnny against other options. more mature and thoughtful thing, which is, you know, she owed it to herself to like, challenge her relationship with Johnny against other options. Because like in a, in a world where the expectation to get engaged in three weeks is there, you need to test that relationship in non-traditional ways. And, and you need to be able to see if you could have something else with

new people coming in with a, without maybe crossing a line or a boundary of a kiss and things like that, which I loved how even Alex and Victoria just talked about that, but recognized that they wanted to be respectful and thoughtful of other people. I thought Alex, Johnny, and you gotta give Alex credit too,

I think they all kind of were just enjoyable and healthy to watch in this in this dynamic and props to victoria again cancel her hometown on peter season never would have thought this for her you know i thought she handled it really great in my opinion i was very impressed yeah part of the reason i was so impressed by it was because i it felt so relatable of like i think there are a few times where johnny was like what do you mean what do you want and i think she was honest about being like wait i don't know was because it felt so relatable of like, I think there are a few times where Johnny was like, what do you mean? What do you want? And I think she was honest about being like, wait, I don't know. Like, because it is so hard to untangle your feelings in that scenario. And I just thought she was so good about like, even though she didn't have all of the answers quite

determined, she was really open and she did it with like good faith and like being proactive, which meant it was okay. Yeah. And sometimes Johnny was Johnny was watching it, walking a dangerous line of asking her questions to answers. He didn't want to hear depending on what those answers were, because like he was answering, answering those direct questions where, what if she felt some chemistry with him? What if she wanted to kiss him and things like that? And, but she was just trying to be respectful to Johnny. You know what I'm saying? Like he, she was pushing him for maybe an answer that he wasn't going to want to hear, but it's just kind of interesting how we do that sometimes. But like, and again, props to Johnny where he's just like, I don't know if I don't want to watch you

figure this out in front of me, but then he's, then you see him trying to challenge himself to do that knowing that it's like, I don't know, I like this girl. So I'm going to push. I'm going to try to get out of my comfort zone, even though my comfort zone tells me to run. I do agree. I think that, yeah, it is obviously very challenging to watch. So props to him for being able to say, OK, I'm going to go ahead and do this, especially if you do feel so strongly for somebody as he says that he does. I think also if it was if she had done it in a disrespectful way and kind of was like flaunting her new relationship, I feel like that would be just a no brainer for him to go like, peace, I'm out of here. This is not for me, even though I like her. But the fact that she came at it with such maturity and was really asking

the tough questions of like, hey, this is what I want. These are my expectations. This is what I'm looking for. I think it kind of, I don't know, it set the tone where it made it appropriate for this to happen, even though obviously it's not enjoyable for Johnny. Final thoughts. Do we think Victoria is going to pick Johnny or Alex? And who would you pick for Victoria? And who do you think she's going to pick for herself? or Alex and who would you pick for Victoria and who do you think she's going to pick for herself? I feel like she's going to pick Johnny and I want her to pick Alex. Why and why? Why do you think she's going to pick Johnny?

I feel like Johnny, it's just like there is that magnetic quality that brought her to him to begin with. Clearly, she is still so invested in him to the point where she wanted to have this conversation with him. She's not willing for it to just like she's willing to work through all of these potential issues or apprehensions that she has because she is so interested in him but i do i see what she is see like i see the logic of you know alex is older he's ready he has all this stuff lined up they call him wealthy god that's a sexy adjective i would love to date someone who's wealthy. A wealthy man. Wealthy. Wealth.

Wealthy? Meanwhile, Jill, did you hear Jill's comment about Jacob when she was like, he's a Lyft driver who sold his couch for cash. Okay. But honestly, that's what you should do when you're getting broken up. Right. You know, nothing against Jacob, but like that she's supposed to focus on all the things that she's not going to miss

about the guy. Also, did she mean to say like sell his cow for cash? Like isn't there an adage where it's like don't sell the cow, sell the milk or something?

I thought she was trying to go somewhere with that. Maybe. That wouldn't blow my mind if Joe messed up the saying. Yeah. But anyways, that's my prediction

for Victoria. Oh, yeah. I would also pick,, that's my prediction for Victoria. Oh, yeah. I would also pick, I would definitely pick Alex for her. And just to shake things up, I'm going to say she picks Alex

because she also said he reminds her of her exes. And even though that seemed like a big reason she was trying to repel, I think ultimately

you probably revert, especially when you're confused. I think you revert to patterns. I don't know. I think it's hard because so often we leave with our heart. So there's a big part of me that thinks she'll pick Johnny, but also I could see her being logical and going with Alex. I personally think I would pick Alex.

I feel like being smart with your head and leading with all of the, I don't want to say the facts, but just things that are concrete in terms of compatibility, things can grow on that. But also, I have no idea. I feel like the chemistry between her and Johnny

is so much stronger. I haven't seen too much of that with her and Alex, but it's just because given the circumstance, there hasn't been too much to allow. So I don't know. I agree with Ellie. I think she'll pick. I think she'll pick Johnny. I think she's going to pick Johnny because she's just had way more time with Johnny and she's had one date with Alex. And I think and I think that's where her struggle comes in. She has all this actual tangible time with Johnny. And that makes sense. She can make sense of that. I know him better because I've spent more time with Johnny and that makes sense she can make sense of that I know him better because I've spent more time with him Alex has all this information that she trusts logically about like what he could be but that's all potential you know and it's both potential but I think she's I think if she had more time with Alex if Alex was on the beach the same time

as Johnny I think she goes Johnny I mean I think she goes Alex all day yeah wowee I don't know but if Johnny and Victoria are in love what the fuck do we know what the fuck do we know Natasha thank you so much for coming

thanks for having me this was so fun please let my audience know more about your music I have two songs out right now, Life in Hawaii and Her Instead. Both very good. Thank you so much. And you can find them everywhere, Spotify, Apple Music, and my EP is coming hopefully in the new year. So that's something to look forward to. What was your music inspired by? My breakup.

Both of them? Or the most latest one? Both of them about the same guy breakup happened a few months ago okay how's he feeling about that i don't know we are no contact terms but don't care healthy love that i want a song written about dude like you know with taylor swift's new album coming out there's always like trying to figure out who's the guy and there's always like the fan base that generally throws shade towards the guy. But it's got to be kind of cool to have a song written about you. That is what I'm curious.

I'm like, does it boost your ego a little bit? To a certain extent, to be like, well, obviously you cared that much about me to write a song, of course. But I'm like, if you got a song written about you, what would your reaction be? Even if it was negative. Because mine, I mean, my latest one's be? Even if it was negative. Cause mine,

I mean, my latest one's pretty negative. I think, I think I would find a way to enjoy it. Right. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking too. My ex, obviously like he is in no way a famous or well-known musician,

but he was a musician and he wrote, I kept being like, write a song about me. And he writes a lot of like depressing, sad songs that are very self-deprecating. He did write one happy song about me. Finally writes a lot of like depressing sad songs that are very self-deprecating he did write one happy song about me finally after like over a year and it was good for the ego and now i'm actually more excited to hear how if i were to be mentioned or alluded to in a song post breakup i feel like that would be especially because it's always the breakup ones where you

write the most like poetic deep intense personal lyrics yeah anyway well go check out natasha's music she is a phenomenal singer if you just want to hear great music and a beautiful voice that's where you need to go don't forget tomorrow laura ruggedi is with us tomorrow to break down love is blind episodes one through seven so start watching if you haven't been watching some compelling characters on there also we'll be talking your latest pop culture texting office hours you know the drill so be sure to check that out don't forget to check out don't text your ex happy birthday i don't know what you've been waiting for uh it's out there uh the reviews i can't uh thank people enough for their kind words, especially I've gotten, I wouldn't know,

I've gotten a ton of, I'm getting a lot of, I was stuck in a long situationship and now I finally found the strength to get out of it after I read your book, which feels good. I hope there's a mass exodus of people leaving situationships catalyzed by this book. I feel like there might be, yeah. So if you are someone who's been

in any type of long-term situations, certainly this book is for you. But if you're struggling getting over an ex, if you're having a hard time just in anything with dating or relationships, I promise you, you will find a nugget out of this book to enjoy. So check it out. Go to vilefiles.com, whether it's the book itself, whether you, I don't know if there's signed copies still available. Audiobook, Kindle's available. You can buy it if in the UK, Canada, Australia, there's links for all those options, Amazon, obviously. And if you are someone who has purchased the book through Amazon and you've read it, uh, and you want to leave a review, it always helps. We appreciate it. Uh, anything else? Go check out Natasha song bye with a planet fitness

black card you don't just get a great workout you get a great workout because your membership is packed with perks for zero down and $29.99 a month, you'll get perks like access to any of our 2,400 clean and spacious locations. Bring a friend anytime and both work out with tons of equipment in the judgment-free zone. Relax in the Black Card Spa and more.

Work out and perk out with the Planet Fitness Black Card. Get started for zero down and $29.99 a month plus $49 annual fee. Offer ends March 15th.