The Viall Files - E500 Going Deeper with Nancy, Bartise, and Raven - Love Is Blind Finale Recap

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are here to celebrate the 500th episode of The Viall Files! On this episode we welcome Nancy, Bartise, and Raven from Season 3 to ask the hard-hitting questions and recap the finale and reunion episodes! We kick things off by diving into pop culture, talking about Miss Argentina and Miss Puerto Rico announcing their marriage, the Selena Gomez documentary, and the Sexiest Man Alive. We then bring on Bartise, Nancy, and Raven to dive deep and ask them questions about their time on the show. We chat with Bartise about the mysterious gift he sent before the wedding day, how Nancy will approach loyalty and trust in her future relationships, and how Raven’s relationship with SK has gotten stronger with communication. We then recap the finale and reunion episodes! We get into Matt and Colleen as a couple, Cole’s apology, and Zanab not taking accountability for her actions. After our recap we bring on a Texting Office Hours caller, where our caller doesn’t know the next step with a guy she’s talking to after they’ve hooked up once. Now she tries to find the best way to avoid a situationship and get this guy to graduate their form of communication from Snapchat to texting. Thank you again for listening and for an amazing 500 episodes! “Let's do this damn thing!” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET  on Amazon's Amp app.  Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Babbel: Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to http://www.Babbel.com/viall. Babbel—Language for life. Chime: See for yourself why Chime is so loved at http://www.chime.com/viall. That’s chime.com/viall. Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Brownlee: Go to http://www.Brownlee.co and use code N&N15 to save! Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @bartiseb @thenancyrodriguez @pilatesbodyraven See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, welcome back to another episode of the vile files going deeper edition and our 500th episode how about that yay i was gonna say it's not just another episode. Yeah. I'm glad we clapped. I asked for my own applause. Nice. Nice. Well, I just want to say, just for starters, I mean, obviously, 500 is a big number. I can't thank, first and foremost, obviously, all the people listening. If you've ever even listened to one episode, thank you.

Without the people who listened to this episode, the show wouldn't exist. It truly is one of the most meaningful things, making the show, creating the show, building the show, all the people who've been a part of it. It's been such a blessing and so fun to bring to y'all every week. I think the most exciting thing for me is I truly believe that this show's, you know, only getting started. And I feel like we continue to try to make improvements, at least that you guys can hopefully enjoy and listen to. And it's been so fun. So thank you, everyone who's ever listened, whether it's the Ask Nick's or the recaps or our interviews. It's so much fun. And like I said, just been really, really meaningful. So thank you, dear listeners.

I appreciate it. And then how many episodes, ladies, have you been a part of, do you think? No. I think we came on in the 200s. I can look it up. We've seen... Because it was Nikki Glaser's batch recap

was our first ever episode. You're correct. That was your first ever episode? I was in Mexico. I logged in online. You didn't even show up for your first day on the job? Hey, let's just give context here. Typically, when you get a job, they're like,

great, start in two weeks. You and Byron said, start tomorrow. And I said, I have a vacation booked. I'm so sorry. Do I have to cancel it? And you said no. How nice is that? So episode 219. 219. I believe. More than half more than half another round of applause everybody well i've already said this to you ladies uh you two have

been such a a great value add to this show and i i really think that uh you guys have been uh a big part of our success and i've always kind of envisioned the show being what it is today kind of this format and this atmosphere and style and uh it's been a pleasure working with you ladies so i hope for 500 more with you both oh we're gonna be so old and then i'll fire you i will bring the book i have it in writing yeah. Yeah, V-Saga, never fire you. Which, by the way, is a running joke because from day one, Allie walks around like she's always going to get fired and she's an incredibly reliable employee. Yeah, that has been a joke since literally day one.

Yeah, it's a... Yeah. Anyway. Good times. Playful. Just a bit of fun. Playful, like threatening to fire, you know. Just cute, fun, flirty.

Just cute, fun, you know, toxic. We love a workplace dynamic.'re gonna say something well yeah i will then i was like i don't know is that is it weird to be like you're like the things i appreciate appreciate about you as a boss or and i know if i was gonna say it i should have just gone in confidently and not make you ask for it but i was just gonna say one thing i really appreciate about you is that i feel like you never over promise or under deliver like you're someone who's like genuinely like like you say everybody thinks they're loyal genuinely every single person as a matchmaker every person I interview says they're loyal you are truly like one of the most loyal people I know and I think you are very good about like seeing a future that

takes into account everyone's like wants and ambitions and thinking about a realistic way to go about that and I think you like communicate with a lot of integrity and I really appreciate it well thank you for saying I'll take my leave no I was just thinking let me go throw up first no I was thinking the other day about when I worked in Chicago and how I was having mental breakdowns every day and losing hair in clumps. And I was like, well, I haven't done that so far in this job. So thank you. Really? Yeah.

No hair loss on the vile vials. Okay. There we go. There we go. What a positive spin. Well, we have hopefully a great episode for you uh bartice nancy and raven from love is blind season three are are all with us uh so we'll get to them later in the episode a couple uh housekeeping things our third installment of our update show uh everything to Ask Nick,

to texting office hours is this Friday or tomorrow, rather. So be sure to check that out. We love that you guys are loving it. And we're still figuring out what exactly we're going to do long term with that format. But rest assured assured we'll do something. Look for, for, uh, 2023 in terms of some making decisions. We are going to pop off permanently do with the, the recap show. But, um,

yeah, uh, uh, installment three is, uh, on Friday. Uh, also we have,

uh, Jason Nash next week, uh, for going deeper and Jason Nash and I, in addition to talking about all things pop culture and super funny guy, really like Jason. We also, I believe, are going to be having Kanika Batra. I don't know how to pronounce her last name, but she's the one on TikTok. If you've been on TikTok recently, who starts every TikTok by saying, I'm a diagnosed sociopath,

and so we'll be talking to a sociopath. That's fun. Next week on Going Deeper. I've just been, I've been seeing her on TikTok. It's just quite fascinating. And I also find fascinating people's reactions because they're critiquing some of the things

like she's saying. She's like, she starts every post by saying she's a diagnosed sociopath duh like what she's pretty transparent like i'm a sociopath and then people are critiquing her like but that's so like psychotic is that not just like tiktok slash society in general though like people are just like anything they can comment or tear down it's like she's saying she's a sociopath i'm here anyway it should be a fascinating discussion uh join us next week for that um all right well we have a lot to get into let's uh let's dive in

to episode 500 and also like nancy i guess yeah n, Nancy, Nancy, uh, Bartice and, and Raven are our guests, but in terms of Institute guests, we just wanted it to keep it to Allie, Amanda and myself to celebrate 500 with all of you and us. An intimate wedding. An intimate moment. The courthouse.

Anyway, well, let's get into it. Speaking of intimate wedding and courthouse, uh, Miss Argentina and Miss Puerto Rico, Mariana valera and fabiola valentina are married they're married so much applause there's okay there's so much to say here first of all the fact that they effectively kept it secret as like international two international beauty stars yeah like so beauty queens. Yeah. Like, so impressive. And also, like,

what a lovely bit of representation to experience. Do you think? I want to, I'm just thinking if they ever have a baby, I want, like,

a tiny little baby sash. Like, think how cute that would be. Or if they did the pregnancy announcement, like, Little Miss something with a baby crown.

Wouldn't that be cute? I'm all for it. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Totally great it's a baby sash it seems like uh yeah in terms of representation like i feel like the lgbtq plus community doesn't um have a lot of representation in the beauty pageant community totally i feel like it's that we know of yeah that we know of yeah right in terms of like like this hyper feminized kind of environment um seems to have more like traditional conservative

roots so i think it's some of their really cool that they seem to be kind of you know part of that community and showing like i guess the the the diversity in that community in terms of, you know, it's like when you see like a gay like athlete come out as gay, you know, it's like obviously, of course, gay people play sports, but it kind of goes against the kind of stereotype of that community. Am I making sense? So I feel like from in terms of representation, it's a great and beautiful thing to see. Totally. I think in terms of like normalizing it, like it's nice to have that happen on a world scale

um and I also think kind of like what you were alluding to or like I think sometimes specifically with like cis women who are queer like there's an association that they're all like more mask and so I think having to like hyper femme um queer women and like having that visibility is cool but I also think it's like it would be great if. But I also think it's like, it would be great if we could extend this. So it's like, let's keep the ball rolling. We love that these two like insanely conventionally attractive women are like on the world stage. Like let's celebrate all the people regardless of how like atrociously hot they are. Learning a language is good for the soul and good for the brain. I really believe

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Right now, you can save up to 55% off your subscription when you go to Babbel.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is Babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L.com slash V-I-A-L-L for up to 55% off your subscription. Babbel, language for life. Money can't buy you happiness, but the ability not to worry about your money can come close to that. That's where Chime can help you smile more. They were just named the number one most loved banking app with payday up to two days early and fee-free overdrafts up to $200. They offer financial peace of mind in your wallet. All of this with no annual fees, large security deposits, or credit checks to apply. A payday two days early, that can be very influential. If you need to pay back a friend, if you're trying to buy a flight home for the holidays, you need that cash now. Get it. You earned it. To see for yourself why Chime is so loved at Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L.

That is Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Early access to direct deposit funds depends on payer. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. See Chime.com slash spot me. Chime was the number one most downloaded banking app in the U.S. according to Apptopia. Speaking of atrociously hot, sexiest man alive.

Named. Chris Evans. Yeah. Chris Evans. Does anybody else confuse Chris Evans and Chris Pine all the time? No. No, no, no. Just the names.

Well, they are both in Chris. Yeah. Okay, sorry. I never confuse you with Amanda Bynes. I feel like you, yeah. I thought I was Amanda Bynes when I was a child I was really

she resonated with me a lot because of she's the man yeah I was a soccer player 13 was my lucky number I feel like yeah a lot of young women probably did back in the day the Amanda show

identifying like similar to her is different than like I thought I was Amanda Bynes I did not think I was I was not a delusional child I was concerned for a second as a teenager yeah I thought I was a man. Okay, I did not think I was a man. I was not a delusional child. I was concerned for a second.

As a teenager, yeah. I thought I was Zack Morris. Yeah. You know? I certainly wanted to be. Also, can I just say, She's the Man. Amazing, amazing movie. Oh my gosh, I just rewatched it.

World class. Like, we lived, I think we grew up in the golden age of rom-coms. Yeah. As my birthday party last year proved, 2004, that era, we had some good stuff coming out. Absolutely spectacular. I think,

I don't know if it was the golden era, but I think it was the, the last hurrah. Like, She's the Man, a Cinderella story. There have been some good ones

before your time. Oh, I'm sure. They just kind of stopped making it after your time. Yeah. Yeah. Bring it back.

Just for context, in in 2004 the sexiest man alive was jude law why are you laughing i don't know he's objectively beautiful she's cackling i love it is this a slight against jude i've always had a man crush on Jude Law oh my god no him in the holiday Jesus Christ when he put on those glasses I don't know why I'm crying or Elfie

in what Elfie the movie Elfie good movie Mary Fuck Kill the most recent sexiest man alive so Chris Evans Paul Rudd

Michael B. Jordan I don't understand the Paul Rudd fascination if I'm being honest what's not to like about Paul Rudd I think it's Ted Lasso vibes. Like, I know that's Jason Sudeikis, but it's like this idea of like this guy who's very like earnest and nice and kind.

And you've heard, at least I've heard, and I feel like this is who Paul Rudd is. You know, he's this affable in real life. And, you know, I think people just appreciate his genuinely good nature. Yeah. you know, it's, I think people just appreciate his genuinely good nature. Yeah. You know, and his. Like authenticity. See, that's why I like Chris Evans.

He's a superstar who's like, seems practical and down to earth. Like, I think like a Chris Evans has that vibe. Like you've seen the video footage of Chris Evans bringing like Betty White up to the stage and Regina King up to the stage. He's a gentleman.

He's just, pure heart. He seems like a really genuinely good guy. Yeah, an amazing Massachusetts representation. Yeah, very likable. Very likable. So marry, fuck, kill those three. Nick? I don't want to kill anyone.

I think you have to marry Paul just because. See, I would marry Chris. Especially after that clip about him talking about what he wants in a partner. Who, Paul Rudd or Chris? Chris. Oh. Well, I only just because like and I'm this is not to slight Chris Evans because I would include myself as someone who like has never been married. And and I don't think that like knocks me as someone who's potentially a really great partner. partner. That being said, like we have more data on, on Paul Rudd in terms of like his desire to want to be in a committed relationship. And, you know, and, and I don't know what, you know,

I don't know a lot about Chris Evans dating history. I feel bad for Chris Evans. Why? Because I believe that he genuinely wants to find someone and I bet dating's a real struggle for him. I mean, that's a lot to live up to, to be thought of as this perfect person. It's like the Rodney effect, what we were talking about on the recap. It's like it's hard to date Jesus kind of thing. It's hard to live up the expectations of Jesus. And I don't think Chris Evans probably even, you know what I'm saying? I just think it's probably a challenge, you know? And I think anytime he might be in a relationship, it

must feel like a challenge internally. And I don't know if he struggles with that at all, but I could see it just being a challenge, you know? Totally. And I think that kind of in the selena gomez documentary my mind and me i think that was something that was so apparent in it was like just how isolated people can be where she's like surrounded by the same select group of people at any given time or she's being like bombarded with like paparazzi or strangers and just like seeing how like lonely and isolating that is. Selena and Chris had dating rumors too. Did they? No, I totally,

I totally empathized with Selena watching her documentary. And for that same reason, because I think we love to compare, you know, and we love to talk about and discuss people's rights to like feeling sorry for themselves sometimes, you know, and it's all perspective.

It's, it's all a matter of like objectivity too, you know, like Selena Gomez, this whole life has been in front of the, you know, in front of the camera has been on center stage and a lot of blessings have come with that,

obviously. But, you know, I, we forget sometimes that these people are human. I think that's the thing more than anything. It's like we truly don't even see them as humans. I think sometimes the reason why we will lose our mind and get so excited is because we see them kind of above the fray, like these deities. And they are human and they have these

struggles and these insecurities. And, you know, I think sometimes we, you know, want to feel sorry for ourselves or we want to just, we want people to empathize with us. And I think, you know, again, it's not to say that they aren't all, they don't have these best lives and I'm not like, oh, poor them. It's just, I think it's a good reminder that we just never really know what people might be struggling with. And we, we shouldn't see people's blessings as an excuse not to have empathy for what they may or may not be struggling with. We just never really know what any one person is dealing with at any given time. And I think Selena really showed that through the documentary and talking about and being so vulnerable with her struggles and facing criticism for that. You know, now you have people like picking apart little things about the documentary or picking apart her friend Raquel. I thought that was really interesting.

People are divided. What did you think about the scene where Selena literally is like, Raquel, do you think I'm complaining about my job? Or do you think I'm complaining about my life? Because she didn't want to go to the birthday party. From my understanding, her friend Raquel is a producer on this documentary. So she's clearly a part of it. It seems like she had some some creative input and she obviously is okay with what is shown. I think having a great friend is having friends who are able to truly be honest with you, even when it means having those tough conversations. And I took those scenes as Selena and Raquel, like showing that glimpse of this friendship, this

friendship that isn't about having yes men and having a bunch of like cheerleaders. I'm sure like, you know, friends, you need friends to be your cheerleaders, but like you also need them to challenge you and check you. And I can imagine the struggle that is being someone in Selena Gomez's shoes or any celebrity's shoes to be able to find people who can really check you, you know, and do it in a healthy and productive way. Someone who can hold you accountable because it must be hard to find that. And it must be hard to like imagine being someone famous, being famous your whole life and everyone wants to kiss your ass and everyone's so afraid of disappointing you for fear that you will shun them outside of your circle. And then imagine how do you challenge yourself to want that in your life? when she was younger about that exact phenomenon, especially when she was literally a child. And she was saying she would go to set and everyone on the team would be like, oh my gosh, you're perfect. You're great. Do that again. You're fabulous, Selena. Hyping up her ego so that she would perform. Obviously, she's a little kid. And then she would go home and she said her mom would say, no, you're not perfect. You still have to do the dishes. You still have

to do X, Y, and Z. But that's a really hard juxtaposition to have as a little kid. So hard. Yeah. So I give a lot of credit to Selena for that because I'm someone who values having my truest friends or people can be honest with me and people who consider me a friend of them know that that comes with like, I'm not here to criticize, but if I will be, I'll just come to be honest with my friends. I want to be empathetic, but I want to be honest. And so I, I think Raquel, her friend Raquel is getting unfairly criticized for what clearly Selena and Raquel wanted to show about their friendship in terms of the value that they, they bring to each other's lives. And it seems like some of her fans don't like that she calls her out or just has a critique. I didn't think it was mean. It just came from a place of honesty. And that's the thing. You can disagree. You have a conversation. And it doesn't mean Raquel is always right. It just means that's what friends, real friends are there for, to be able to

respectively and politely hold each other accountable and work through issues and that's what they showed and i don't get why some people are jumping all over it i think for me the thing that was maybe lacking and this is not just from raquel like i think this is from everyone is like i would have really liked to see people like just like validate and acknowledge what she was saying because i think people were probably like they were respecting it and they were understanding it maybe being empathetic within like their own headspace and trying to be like oh how do we make the show must go on etc but like I think it would have gone a long a long way just to like acknowledge like just they were and say something

other than like glam in 30 minutes like just like really like take a moment to just like let her like sit with that as opposed to it being this thing that is like continually like a dialogue with herself as opposed to something where she can like talk to people. I also thought it was kind of crazy that like there wasn't anybody who was like like a nurse who traveled with her. Like when she's dealing with like a very serious like illness. Yeah. Like I was just very surprised by that also i'm a huge idiot they were not married chris evans and jenny slate were not married okay that's okay we'll keep that all in i don't think you're an idiot you're not i didn't even know she was married and then she dated someone right after him and i was like it was him it was not him okay don't for all the

chris evans stands out there coming for you. Delete your comments. Delete your comment. What was I going to say? Oh, I also decided that Harry Styles is still number one dream guest, obviously. But I'm going to put Selena Gomez up there for an ass Nick. I do like, and when she was talking about, she was giving these interviews and you could, and she expressed her frustration of people not listening to what she had to say.

And like really even thinking about her opinion. I think Selena Gomez, we'd be excellent at an ass Nick. And I would love for her to help us offer people like relationship advice in perspective on any of these calls. So if you're out there, Selena, and you happen to be

listening to this, we'd love to have you on. We won't make you sit in front of a creepy mirror like a literal episode of Black Mirror. That was odd. Yeah.

We'd love to have your input on all things relationship advice and answering people's questions. So maybe just let Selena know that we're interested in having her on if you're out there. I used to be the biggest Selena Gomez fan

to the point where I made a Modge Podge thing. A collage? I had all these teen... I had a bunch of teen magazines and I cut out all the Selinas and I made a giant collage

of Selena Gomez because I was so in love with her so Selena if you come I'll ask my parents if they still have it and I'll bring it to you and we'll promise Allie will be normal

she'll be god damn it I did I did I did DM Harry Styles for the 500th episode I was like hey

I hear you're in town. Why not? Shoot your shot. Shoot your shot. And one of these days, we'll get one of these dream guests. I mean, we're aiming for some of the biggest superstars in the world. If we get Selena Gomez, I would love either at the same time or separate interviews, if she could make a connection to Steve Martin and Martin Short,

I think they would be some of my dreams. Let's just try. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a Scottish castle for the Ultimate Murder Mystery Competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out

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What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No.

Oh. Dude, stop with the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude. Stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. Alright, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice.

Brav Bros. Good job. We were shooting our shots. We were dreaming big. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. We were shooting our shots. We were dreaming big. Let's get Selena Gomez on so we can ask her if she can make an introduction. Let's use Selena Gomez. Let's use Selena Gomez. I just like their dynamic.

I think you two could keep each other company bickering for years and years and years to come. That's why we're so good in front of the mirror we'll just go um anyways um i really enjoyed the documentary she if nothing else selena seems like she's just a really genuine person she has yeah i i believe she had she has a genuine desire to be good and not everyone has that i think she has a genuine desire to be good. And not everyone has that. I think she honestly puts genuine thought

into trying to do the right thing. And I think that is something that's often overlooked. I think character matters to her. Doesn't mean she's a perfect person. Doesn't mean she's without making mistakes. But I don't think people actually, I think most of us don't value character these days. And I think we are so easy to criticize other people for things they say or do, etc., etc.

And I think nowadays we are not thinking about character and like we've talked about before, what you do when other people aren't looking or aren't judging you and things like that. And I think she has a genuine desire not just to do these things for performative reasons, but for actual, it's an actual desire of hers. Yeah. Like you saw with like the mental, with emotional intelligence and like developing a curriculum for that. Like I, seeing that, I was like, oh my God, why don't we have that? Like put that there with like taxes and managing like basic personal finances. Like why is this not taught in school? Like I was really lucky at my university. I took a class on emotional intelligence and it was a really good, insightful course. And like she makes such a good point. Like you start learning emotions when you're

in kindergarten. And like why do we just have this like huge cutoff period and expect people to know, especially like I think especially like men where maybe there's like it's a bit more stigmatized or they're not always given that same space to like emotional or they're socialized to not go there as much. I really think this is something all people should have access to. It's just resources to better understand themselves. And so when she was talking to the women in Kenya, I was like, can they lead a course or something? Because some of the stuff that they were saying, like, I can't build the roof until I have a foundation. They were talking about how they need to work on themselves

and get their education first before thinking about these other things. I was so impressed. I really enjoyed the documentary. Yeah. Good doc. Yeah. Up next,

Bartice, Nancy, and Raven from Love is Blind. And then after we hear from them, we'll give our thoughts on the Love is Blind reunion and the finale. Mostly talk about how toxic Zena and Cole are with each other. And then we'll do some texting office hours and that will be our 500th

episode. Once again, I can't thank you guys enough. Also. Oh, do we have an update on a book club stuff? Yeah. If you're interested in joining a don't text your ex happy birthday book

club, which is, you know, part book club, part just dating support group in your area. You don't even really have to have read the book to join or find a community. We highly recommend it because in the support groups, people will be trying to hold support and hold each other accountable for setting expectations and defining by ground yourself and encourage people to do that because it's so hard to do in practice. So we highly encourage you to get the book, but it is not a requirement. Yeah. But you can go to our Vile Files Instagram. We have all the links to the book club saved under highlights for our stories. Or you can just go directly to Facebook and search DTYEHBbookclub dash any of the following cities.

Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Phoenix, Dallas, Columbus, Boston, Sacramento, Denver, New York City, Toronto, Philadelphia, Austin, Atlanta, Vancouver, Seattle, and the rest are in progress. So international. And if you're new to those areas, maybe you're new to the city, join those clubs. Maybe meet some friends. Totally.

You know? Maybe you'll get a date out of it. I don't know. Oh. Who knows? Who knows? Let's get to Bartis. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan, you're forced to compromise.

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It's our first collab as a couple. It's my, I think it's my first like collab collab at all. Wait, that's gorgeous. That's beautiful. I think so. It's a really good step in our relationship too.

You know, the robes are amazing. And what I love about them is because like, I feel like most with robes you have one or two choices you have like the kind of like really light kind of like not functional robe that like looks yeah like the silky kind of you know whatever or like a heavy kind of like and then you're doing your makeup in it and you're sweating because it's keeping all of your body yeah the brownie ones are really light and they like lay on your body and they kind of have that kind of fashionable.

I don't know. They're really, I don't know. They're nice, but they also are warm. You're selling it, Nick. No need to say more. They lay on your body. Brownlee has created an exclusive capsule collection of French terry robes in four colors with myself and Natalie.

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His and hers? I first get it for yourself first, ladies out there. Promise me when I say you will love these robes. If you're a robe person, you need a Brownlee robe. Brownlee.co, B-R-O-W-N-L-E-E.co. Use code NNN15. That's N, N symbol, like an M&M, but NNN15 to save. Ortiz, thanks for joining.

Absolutely, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, glad to be with you. How you been? How's your heart? How's my heart? Yeah. My heart's full, man.

It's been crazy the last few weeks with the show airing and everybody seeing it, everybody reaching out. So I'm feeling happy, feeling full. All right. Awesome. Well, we have a few questions for you. Our time, I know, is limited, so we just wanted to kick it off. I guess I just wanted to start by asking you, what is your take on your experience like especially having

watched it back because obviously filming it's one experience watching it back as an experience how do you see it i'll just like open-ended question how do you see your experience so i'll say this so you're exactly right living through it was one thing and then watching it back it was completely different i think for me watching it back, I definitely learned more than living through it. I think I felt like I was learning when I was living through it, but not until I was able to see what I was doing, what I was saying, and how I was impacting the people that I love, specifically Nancy. And seeing myself do that, it was eye-opening.

I mean, the initial emotions, I guess, I was feeling watching it back here on this TV. I was on my floor rolling around just like, oh my God, what am I doing? What am I saying? Most times, for the first, I think, six or seven episodes, I was embarrassed. What specifically were you embarrassed about? I think mostly just my brutal honesty and my lack of understanding that what I'm saying and what I'm relaying, the information needs to be relayed to Nancy, but not the way that I did it. And not how much I deeply dived

into the whole Raven conversation or the pool conversation or in bed with Nancy talking about what happened at the pool. So I think on one hand, there's a sense of shame and a sense of embarrassment, but also I would never have lied. I wanted to be as honest and open with Nancy because she needed to make a decision on who I am for herself at the altar.

And so I would have wanted Nancy, and she was always honest with me. I'm not saying she'd lie, but I would always want somebody to be honest as opposed to being fake or lying. honest versus, you know, putting yourself in Nancy's shoes or being empathetic and, and thinking to myself, if I were Nancy, this would be really hard for me to hear. Like it would be hard for me. I'm assuming it would be hard for you to hear if Nancy was this, like, I don't know, man, me and Cole together, we look good together. People get us, you know, things like this, like how right how would you have done it differently if you could go back and so yeah number one you're exactly right i would have felt i would have felt much worse if i if nancy had said this to me then i felt watching

myself do it like i made i i felt so bad watching it back and just hearing myself go into detail and i think that's where I draw the line. The extent of where I went with the information and even reenacting a scene in bed together, that was way too far. So I think what I would do differently is say, hey, babe, this is a struggle for me and here's where I'm at. I don't need to go into all the details and all the names that I was calling everybody. Did Nancy ask you first or did you open up about the physical aspect

of Raven? How did that conversation even get started? Oh, shoot, man. Another thing I'll say, don't have these conversations. I would not have these conversations drunk away between the hours of midnight and 4 a.m. So that's one thing. I can't remember who brought it up. You were drinking while you guys were having these conversations oh you couldn't tell my eyes met my eyes like

this the whole time yeah yeah we just met we just met true true um no i don't remember who brought it up but i remember she had said something like you know i talked with sk today he's not my type so it's like that's a no for me um and i was like oh well i talked to raven i had the opposite experience yeah yeah well i was just gonna say it, so it seems like you're kind of alluding to the fact that like there was a strong emotional connection with Nancy, but the attraction wasn't there. And in watching the show, it seemed like maybe that became apparent to you when you saw Raven. It was kind of like, would you say it was seeing other options that kind of caused you to really question the degree to which you were attracted to Nancy? Or was it something you'd

been grappling with since you first saw her? I think it was just like a kind of a snap back to reality or like a realization that the real world's going to bring struggles that we did not feel in the pods when I developed those emotional connections and that feeling for Nancy that love because you know we say this on the show when we're going through it, like, holy shit, this is a fairy tale, right? This environment in the pods and in Malibu and Love is Blind, those first 10 to 15 days, it's like, it's

geared towards falling in love. And so I think, you know, seeing all the girls, seeing everybody out in public, seeing any girl, I was just like, whoa, this is the real world. I'm no longer in this fairy tale where it's just easy to kind of open up and and have somebody fall in love with who i am on the inside and do that to nancy so seeing all the girls rave in particular yeah i'm sure it was like a snap back to reality interesting um what you on the show i thought just for everyone

everyone kind of always you guys you you you guys like to talk about how in love you guys were with each other and And even after a fight, you'd be like, oh, but we love each other and things like that. I'm curious, what does love mean to you? Because on this show a lot, we talk about people saying the word, but often don't talk about what's behind the word. And I'm just curious, what does being in love mean to you? And I'm just curious, what does being in love mean to you? And has that answer changed for you between when you first went on the show versus now going through that kind of very intense social experiment? When I first went on the show, and I think you'll hear about me and Nancy agreed on this

like wholeheartedly. And that's one of the things we connected on the pause when we talk about love or falling in love. You heard the term best friend all the time, comfortable all the time. And with Nancy, I think you see me and her have these difficult conversations that I felt comfortable doing. And it was specifically the looks thing

that was a very hard conversation to have. But since I felt so, I felt like this person was me. I felt like I could say all this stuff to her. Retroactively, like in retrospect, that's completely wrong. That's not how it should be. To an extent, like, I guess I took it too far. But in the moment, I was like,

this love I feel for this person, I kind of feel safe showing all this side of me, showing my struggles, showing my opinions that are completely different than hers. So when I think about love and I think about a partner, at that time, it was just like, who can I, who is this most easy with?

Okay. I guess looking back at it now like I mean I still want that comfortability I still want love to be easy I know it's not easy you know with with like obviously my parents love story being a divorce and same with Nancy's and then obviously me and Nancy you know yeah I had to flip a switch midway through to really put in effort um and I didn't feel like love should be should require that much effort because I was so blinded by it I wanted to be easy I wanted to be comfortable and natural and that's how I fell in love with Nancy and then we get back to Dallas and it's just no longer gotcha do you so how do you feel now do you you feel like love requires the effort or shouldn't?

I think it definitely doesn't require no effort. You definitely have to put some effort in because there's going to be disagreements and arguments and differences in opinion over time and challenges that you need to work through together. And for the most part, me and Nancy did that. I think we did a good job communicating how we were feeling and we, she never made me extremely uncomfortable. I'm sure I made her uncomfortable on more than one occasion. But yeah, you definitely need to put effort in

if you want something to work. Midway through, I don't know if you've talked to Nancy about this, but she, I don't remember this is on camera either, but she basically like told me like,

hey, this is, this is not working, Bartiz. Like you need to grow up. You need to actually try here. And I hated saying this when we were going through this. I was saying this both

on and off camera, but the trying thing, the forcing it, I don't feel like I need to force anything to be in love. I think I was wrong with that. I think Nancy was absolutely right. I think in the short amount of time that we had to, quote unquote,

make it to the altar, make a decision, I needed to force it. And so in order to know, right? In order to find out, could I spend the rest of my life with this person? And in the middle of our journey,

it was just like, I was just checked out. But then she had that conversation with me and I started to force things. I started to be more physical and like hold her more and kind of give her what she wanted. And then that's when I kind of felt like, quote unquote, back in love with her.

Okay. Yeah, I was going to say, so like on a scale where like a hundred is like, I'm a hundred percent certain we are going to spend our lives together. Like this is my person. And zero is like, absolutely not my person. Like how would you, where would you say you were throughout the show at various, at various points.

Oh man. Well, okay. I mean, rollercoaster, right? Rollercoaster the whole way. I mean,

you see, you even see up until my wedding day where I'm having a breakdown. There's still, I'm still like going all over the place, but if I had to put a number on it, like in the, in the pods, a hundred percent,

I was like, okay, let's do it. Let's go. Come on. For the rest of our lives. Um, Malibu started to come downhill and then we came at the Dallas for downhill. I'd never say it got to zero. It probably, it probably didn's go. Come on. For the rest of our lives. Malibu started to come downhill, and then we came back to Dallas for downhill.

I'd never say it got to zero. It probably didn't get lower than 20, right? But there were some low points in there. I was like, shit, I don't know if I can do this. And Nancy was the same way. My low points were definitely more highlighted. At the altar, Nancy seemed, Nancy always seemed pretty clear, you know, that she was in it. She was going to, if you were going to say yes, she was going to say yes. Obviously you ended up saying no. I mean, it seems like Nancy felt like you let her on a little bit. Do you like, were you really that confused the day of like where did where when you made your decision

and because you seem like a really logical guy to me like i you know one thing i reckon empathize with you while watching the show too it's just like you know i thought it was kind of an interesting part where you know it seemed like nancy kind of wanted to get down and dirty and and wanted to kind of like hook up and and you were like, I got a lot on my mind. And I think, you know, as a guy, I think that's not something that is talked about as much where men aren't always down to like hook up, especially when they're stressed out. And so I really empathize with you there too. But nevertheless, like you seem like a very logical thought through type of guy. So I'm just wondering, when did you start using that kind of

logic and thought process to get to the decision that you weren't going to say yes to Nancy? I mean, so every step of the way along this process, you're collecting information, right? So even in the pause, I was collecting information. If you want specific examples, there was when she had described her ex as being a realtor in the pods to me. And then we get to the real world. There's a lot more to that story that he's not just a realtor. They own two mortgages together. So she's financially tied to this man. So that just one piece of information is something that I'm logically going to think about. That's going to weigh on my mind for X amount of days until we get to this ultimate decision.

And then we move forward with our process. We move forward with our love story. We can get to the altar. We get to wedding day and sure. I'm like, I could have seen a yes on wedding day and I could have seen a no. Okay. And I think when I really was leaning more towards no, when I was kind of locking on the answer,

that's when the gift came. And I don't, and you've seen that obviously like the whole breakdown and everything. Yeah. And because it was like the most perfect like thought out gift and it was just it was like the embodiment

of all of our journey together all of the good stuff that we've been through all the little things and it was it just was a perfect picture of Nancy

and that's when I realized like holy shit how can I hurt this perfect girl and so the gift I mean I don't remember thinking,

looking at the gift like, okay, this is going to make me say yes. Or I'm for sure saying no. I just remember being with, looking, holding this gift like, this is the culmination of the last almost two months of my life. And potentially this woman,

and I was looking at this gift like this, this is Nancy, like this is a perfect girl. This could be forever for me. So I had a freak out panic attack and then that led me into a spiral and that led me into sending her a gift which is probably where she thought she was being let on because with that note that's the one thing I regret from this whole experiment is sending that note with that shot that said let's do the damn thing because yes I see how that could be you know you weren't planning

on sending a gift until she sent one to you? That's right, yeah. During my spiral, I was like, oh shit, I got to send her something. You know?

And then you said, let's do the damn thing, even though, yeah, I could see why she was upset. Let's do the damn thing, me and the wedding, but you know,

let, you know, yeah. Well, not the wedding. Not, well, let's get there. Let's get to the altar and see what we, see what happens. Um, fair enough. You know, let you know. Yeah. Well, not the wedding. Not, well, let's get there. Let's get to the altar and see what we do. Um, fair enough. You know, it takes a lot of confidence for people to own insecurities, right? Uh, I think it's easy to talk about your confidence. I think it's another thing to just own insecurities and be vulnerable. And I think that as you get

older, you realize how much confidence that takes. I'm curious, what are some of your insecurities? And if any of those played a role in the kind of courtship between you and Nancy? I mean, I've always been insecure about talking about my feelings. And I think, like I said early on during this podcast, that comfortability and that ease of being able to do that with Nancy, that really helped me fall for her. So, and I'm not even going to call it like emotional vulnerability because I am emotionally vulnerable. Um, just relaying my emotions. I've known that's been a struggle for me and my previous relationships.

What about that makes you feel insecure? A lot of girls don't like that. So why, if I'm not able to do that in a good way, one, I'm going to hurt somebody like I did with Nancy. You don't think a lot of women like to hear someone's feelings? No. I'm saying a lot of women don't like the fact that I cannot share my feelings in a way that makes sense, I guess. I can't feel something and say, hey, this is how I'm feeling.

Okay. Interesting. All right. Well, I can see how uh was a challenge in your experience do you feel like you're better with than that with that now i hope i'm better with it i don't feel like i'm doing what i did on love is blind anymore i don't think i'm blatantly um like i don't think i would blatantly be telling my current fiancee not say i'm engaged right now i'm single right now but if i had a fiancee i I wouldn't be telling her how I'll chat to

somebody else's. Because it seems like you're pretty good at expressing your feelings. It's just how you went about it. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. And then I guess my final question is how are things with Nancy's family? Obviously

she seems pretty upset at the wedding. How did that smooth over if at all? And did you, did you guys get back on the same page or is there still some animosity between you and her family? I have not talked to her family at all since the wedding. Actually her family didn't know that me and Nancy had talked since the wedding either. So they are, you know, I have a younger sister and I could see,

I agree with the emotion that they were feeling there. You know, that's their baby girl. That's for Steve, that's her big sister. I don't agree with how they reacted because I would not have reacted that way. How would you say your relationship with Nancy is now? Yeah, it's continued. It's nothing romantic anymore.

She made that very clear after, you know, the altar. But we've gone through another rollercoaster. Like, it's been friends. It's been friends. It's been no communication. It's been disliking each other. It's been acquaintances. I say now, we're cordial now. She was just texting me not too long ago.

But it's tough because when we try to be friends, and then you start to date other people, it's hard to maintain that friendship with respect to the next person that you're trying to date and you know you can look at like a triangle right if it's me and then another girl and then nancy i'm not going to be able to keep all those lakes that triangle happy whether that be because i'm not giving nancy the attention she deserves as a friend or whether that be i'm keeping nancy too close and it's making another girl uncomfortable it It's hard to manage a relationship like that.

All right, man. Any final thoughts you want to share with us? Like what's, what's next for you? What, what do you, what do you, what do you hope for yourself when it comes to love in the future, Barthes? I think right now I'm taking it day by day. I think I really, I'm taking the time right now to process,

which is what I should have done after filming. But like I said, I learned a lot more watching it back than I did going through it. So I think right now I'm just taking it day by day processing and trying to get better as a man for hopefully my future wife one day. All right, buddy. Well, best of luck. We appreciate you taking the time. All right, take care. Can I ask one final question? Oh, Allie has a question for you. Literally the final one, because we had a conversation about this. I think it was

last episode when we were talking about Love is Blind. The scene when you were in the bathtub and Nancy started talking about not having a plunger, was that a complete turn off for you in that moment? No, I mean,

that was not turn off. I was like, girl, protect yourself. Like, we're not naive. There's cameras everywhere. We're like, there are people going to be watching this.

I was like, you know what? Just kiss me. Like, just close your mouth and kiss me. Like, let's not embarrass ourselves too much here. Yeah, I thought it was weird.

Yeah. That's just me. All right, Bartiz. Appreciate you taking the time, man. All right. Thanks for having me. Take care. Bye-bye. Nancy, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Good to be with you. We're big fans of you over here.

I'm not sure what the fuck Bartiz was thinking, but I'm just kidding. But seriously, but also, how are you? How are you doing? How's your heart? from the beginning, you hope for the best, but you really don't know what's going to happen through the pod phase and then into the Malibu phase and then back to Dallas phase. You just don't know how every day could change within your relationship. So at the end of it all, I'm healed. I feel like this is the most exciting part of it is getting to share it with the world. Yeah. I have a few questions here, if you can indulge me. I think as a lot of people are fascinated with the kind of the wedding day, right? The kind of altar moment of the I do's or I don'ts.

And I'm curious for you because you were very kind of vocal throughout the process. But as someone who, were you planning on saying yes at the time? I knew that morning that it was going to be a yes for me. Okay. But it was a definite no halfway through. After the group scene and his little shenanigans he pulled in front of andrew like for me that was like the hell no um when was that part again so it was about halfway through the season when andrew and like the group got together we had met up yeah yeah and bartiz comes over very macho you

know wanting to lay his ground i don't know um but I remember at that night, um, and then we had that conversation in our kitchen where he expresses how much looks matter. Um, that night is when I like cried myself to sleep to wake up in the morning and say, this is not the person. And thankfully you guys did get to see some of that conversation in our living room the very next day. Um, yeah. So then I think for me, it was like, I'm giving up. Like I cannot with you. You're not the person that I fell in love with. It just was someone completely different. So it was me giving him a second chance to really turn things around the last almost two weeks of our relationship. And he said it, he said it to me at one of our dinners. He said, um, you know, this is the husband that you're going to get, this new Bartis, this person that I re-fell in love with.

And so in my mind, everything he was telling me leading up until the wedding the last two weeks was the we, the us, the future. So yeah, the wedding day was... Yeah. Well, that's also really interesting. I want to get back to that. But the reason I asked the original question is because I find it really interesting that it seems like, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, all the people who end up saying, I don't, or I do not, they all claim that they came up with this decision literally seconds before it came out of their mouths. And yet everyone who

says yes, always is this like, I knew kind of the days leading up or I knew that morning. And I'm just, as someone who's in your shoes, do you think that's bullshit for the people who ultimately said no on the last final second? Or do you think it's some magical coincidence that the people who are saying yes, no prior to, but the people who are saying no, have no idea of their truth until the moment, until right before it comes out of their mouth? How do you sit with that? I think in general, the conversation really is, it comes down to communication, right? So did you communicate to your partner leading up until the wedding day that you were having doubts? And I think that's where I felt so blindsided is that Bartice, the doubts that he did have on our very last dinner, his conversation with me was, oh, those doubts that I had, you know, I'm going to put those in

the past. We are going to move forward. So I think for me, it really comes down to like, what were you communicating your doubts with your partner? Or did you tell them, Hey, everything is fine. And, you know,

then send them a shot saying, let's do the damn thing. Um, that was, that was a little nuts. I felt like he might a little contradicted himself because we kind of asked him a similar question when he knew and it almost seemed like after you gave him a gift he had this like panic he panicked sent you a shot you a gift but almost yesterday when we talked to him uh he made it seem like when you he got your gift almost that like made him question the

relationship did i understand him that's kind of what he said right what do you what do you have when you, he got your gift almost that like made him question the relationship. Did I understand him? That's kind of what he said, right? What do you, what do you have to say about that? Or do you feel like, did you even know that? Or do you, does that make you feel a little bit more let on by Bartice? Well, seeing that scene was the first time I had seen it, you know, with where, um, he had mentioned, um, that, Oh, or I forgot who told me that, Martise broke down the day of your wedding. I was like, broke down for what? Like, what is he freaking out about?

And so honestly, seeing that scene, it felt more like, wow, he knew he was going to say no. And that presence that I gave him reminded him of the amazing person that he's about to let go of. And so what's so interesting, I think even part of that scene was when his dad says, this is something your mom would do. And Bartice from the beginning was like, if it's someone my mom and my abuela, my grandmother would approve of, all these things. So it was like mixed signals because you cry cry but what are you crying about like is it is it because you're you know that you're about to break my heart at the altar yeah guilt um but then you but then you still send me a shot let's do the damn thing like i think that's where i

think that's for me where the blindsideness came in on on in our relationship yeah totally i i i i have a hard time believing any of any of the people who said no last second it just it seems like they just kind of what are what are they gonna do admit to leading someone on i you know i'm saying like but it seems so hard to believe and all the people who who are planning on saying yes i'll say that they you know they knew they're going to say yes before it just it it doesn't add up for me i'm seems so hard to believe. And all the people who, who are planning on saying yes, I'll say that they, you know, they knew they're going to say yes before it just, it, it doesn't add up for me. I'm curious. Um, you know, we, we really enjoyed watching you, uh, this whole season, you know, you were very reflective and vulnerable and we appreciated that. And I think one thing people are really captivated by with you is, you know, like the

loyalty you spoke of that you want in a relationship, you know, especially with like Bartice. And it seemed like you were really committed to, I fell in love with this man in the pod and I made a promise to him. I value what an engagement means. And we, we love that. Right. But we also talk a lot about in this show about setting boundaries with yourself and setting expectations with your partner and holding them accountable for how people treat you and things like that. have you kind of learned about love and how are you someone going forward going to be going to try to you know still capture that loyalty because like i mean i i consider myself a very loyal person it's it's it's a trait that really is important to me but i also don't think like i think loyalty is very much earned and you have to continue to earn that loyalty with someone and i'm just wondering for you do you now feel a little bit more that way as opposed to, it seemed like, you know, whether you intended it

or not, but you almost kind of like, you know, like shot yourself in the foot almost by like the loyalty that you wanted to give Bartice. And it came from like such a genuine and good place, but almost like it didn't, he didn't always deserve that loyalty you were so willing to give him, you know, because of how you guys were, you know, the conflict you were having and some of the things he was saying and some of the, you know, things going on in your relationship. And so like for yourself, has that changed your approach to dating in the future in terms of how do you hold someone accountable for how they take care of the relationship? How do they prioritize the relationship? How do they prioritize you and things like that before you're so willing to

kind of give them this unconditional loyalty? Does that make sense? Absolutely. No, I think it's a great question. I have no regrets from the person that I chose through everything that we went through. I have no regrets about what we did, what I did. However, what, what I will, um, I guess, uh, own up to is that I didn't set boundaries that I should have. And I think watching myself go through that process, like when I envision marriage, I envision it to be forever. So I envision, you know, even in the healthcare field, you know, when I work with, um, adult population, um population patients and you see the husband and the wife and if they're going through a wall like that was insane for me so I think in this experiment I was really in it with my pure heart and and I'm really glad to hear that

you guys you know you saw that because that's exactly what it was um however I think that being that it is an experiment and that I wanted to give it my all, I also never wanted to tell this man who to be and what to do for me. Because if I'm going to marry you, I need to see your true colors. And if these are your true colors, then I need to decide if I'm going to accept you for that or not. Had Bartice not turned things around halfway through our relationship and had he not really put our differences aside to just focus on us, definitely we would have had a different outcome at the

altar. So I think for me, it was truly living in a world of our love story where I had to do what I needed to do. I needed to be me. I knew where I, where I stood for myself, who I am and really allowing Bartice to kind of like, Hey, do your thing. And I, I will give you feedback. We will have conversations. We will have disagreements, but I really need to see who you are. And I think for me, that was the best way that I could manage such an extremely fast engagement is I need to see you mad. So like buck up, you know, like I need to see you sad. So like, how is that? And so I think overall what I've learned moving forward and what I've been working on the last year and a half is just really setting boundaries and being

able to not only be a good listener, because I think that's something I value about myself is that I am a really good listener. And it's something that I've learned to just really master where I truly want to hear what you are saying as the other person talking. And so I think we're now moving forward. You know, it's really just taking relationships for what they are. And if something doesn't feel right, being able to recognize that early enough to not necessarily tell someone what to do, because never going to be that person for you to tell you, this is what I need from you. It'll be more of like, hey, this is what I need. And leave it up to you to decide if you want to be a role to take charge in that area. Yeah, I love that.

That's great. Yeah. Do you ladies have any questions? I was just wondering, trying to get your perspective on after the wedding, clearly your family went into full protective mode, your brother, your mom specifically. They wanted to be there for you, not only emotionally, but physically. And I think that was like a point of conflict of Bartice telling them to back away. You told them to give them, you know, give you guys space. Looking back on that, do you think they were in the right? Were they in the wrong? Should they have let you and Bartice

have your moment? The way that my family reacted that day is so powerful to me because I'm, I'm, I am a quiet little squirrel when it comes to conflict and confrontation. Like I know how I can be. And so I think the fight that I wanted to fight in that moment, I could not, I could not ever do. I don't have the strength for it. So I think my family were really the warriors that day to just really express what I couldn't express because at that moment, my heart was completely shattered. I was left at the altar and I knew that I could not put my words together in that moment to say what I wanted to say. So I think for me, it was absolutely the most beautiful scene probably in the entire season that seeing how strong they fought for

for me when I couldn't fight for myself you know uh Bertie seemed like someone you know like even in the reunion you know I give him credit because he seemed open to criticism you know and he seemed to be willing to you know hold himself accountable for accountable for the most part. As someone who's his former fiance, who, you know, had a very, you know, rather brief but intense relationship with him, what would you like to see from Bertice, you know, like, maybe it's not really your problem, but indulge me, but like, where do you think he could learn to be the right, to be a good partner for his next partner like where where do you think there are areas of growth that you would like to see him work on before he dives into his next serious relationship i think looking back at the season i watched it the first time and i'm

like you know okay i'm watching myself right because i'm like what did i do what are my and then the second time i kind of re-watched some parts, I'm watching it under Bartice's perspective. I learned a lot about Bartice through watching the show, you know, watching his side interviews, his side conversation. In my opinion, I think that Bartice still needs to work on some of that self-love, self-confidence, really know who he is and cherish that, value that. I think that if he could really find that confidence and security within who he is, and I'm talking like the core, not the extra stuff, right?

I think that if Bartista could get to a place where he really loved himself and knew where his strengths lied and held on to that love to everyone else. And for him to be able to receive love will be, will be so amazing, but it has to start with that love for yourself and like not letting other people's opinions of who your fiance is or what they look like,

um, affect your, your beliefs and what you feel inside. Um, so, but, affect your beliefs and what you feel inside. But I think it really has to start with that core love for himself. And then that will open up doors to be loved by someone else and for him to be able to give love as well. Yeah.

Personally, just so you know, Nancy, we think you look great, by the way. Thank you. So do I. look great, by the way. Thank you. So do I. But yeah, we asked Bartice when we talked to him, and I'll ask you the same question to just keep it fair, because I said, you know, I think it takes a lot of confidence for people to like own their insecurities. And I was curious what he said, what he thought his own insecurities were. His answer felt to me like a bit of a, I don't know. I don't know. I didn't love his answer because his answer was, I could be a better communicator, which I think I agree. He could be a better

communicator. I don't believe that's a true insecurity of his, you know? And I'm just wondering as someone who was able to date him, would you agree or disagree with that? And then I would ask you the same thing. Do you have an insecurity? But you all, yeah, I feel like this would be easier for you to answer because you've been so vulnerable and so real with your strengths and your weaknesses, but I'd love to hear from you about that. I think Bartice was the best communicator he could be in that moment. I don't think that Bartice, I mean, he's never lived with a woman. He had never really, you know, he dated someone, I think, for maybe four years or something, but he's 25. So what, he was like 18 when he started our relationship. So I don't think that that was his biggest insecurity in my perspective. Yeah, I don't buy it.

I didn't either. What about you? What are things that, do you have any insecurities that you'd like to share? And if you don't feel comfortable, that's fine. I just more, again, like I said, I think, you know, there's so many people out there listening to the show too. And I think, you know, we are so afraid to voice our insecurities for fear of people judging us and things like that. But I think sometimes we can just feel a little bit better when we get it out there and make other people feel seen and let them know that we all struggle with this stuff and it's okay. And we can still be our best selves despite having some insecurities. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think when it comes to my insecurities, it's really, I'm too nice.

I don't know how else to put it. Like, I'm too nice. I'm too trusting. I've been that way all my life. And I feel like as an adult now where I can learn how to share that love, it really can protect me in a way that I've never protected myself before. Whether it was a friend who backstabbed me in high school and I still loved her for it after, right? Or worked on a friendship that probably should have been over years ago. So I think, and I don't really know if it's an insecurity or weakness, how you would call it. My therapist, I've been in therapy really since the show, just to really figure out where did I go wrong? What could I have done different through like, what my actions were. And I think at the end of the day,

like, there's nothing that I want to change about myself. Like, there's nothing that I, I am insecure about that. I'm like, Oh, I've got to get that better. But I think where I could work on and what I'm trying to do is really build those boundaries and recognizing who deserves to have my energy and really identifying. I almost feel like I'm very, I like graphs, I like bubbles and lines. So I feel like maybe color coordinating, like what, you know, what circle of friends and family fit into this category and like what's next after that and who is next after that. So just really figuring out like not everyone can, um, can receive it because it might not always be accepted or, um, appreciated the way that it should be. So that's honestly my biggest,

my biggest lesson that I learned from this show, watching myself and, and maybe just asking more questions too. I think that a lot of the times i was just kind of letting the conversation flow and and there could have been moments where i could have probed more questions but it's a lot to digest in that moment that um you know you you don't get prompted to be like oh well ask this next you know so you you just kind of roll with the conversation as organically as it happens. Yeah, that's a great answer. And you seem like someone who's really embraced

this experience as a learning opportunity for yourself. So that's awesome. Did you and Raven ever have conversations kind of addressing the way that you were being compared to one another? No, actually, we didn't. And I think that whole conversation was just so interesting. Bottom line, it didn't faze me. I heard what he said and I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. You like a

very fit girl who's beautiful. And it just was kind of like it went in through one ear and out the other because I'm like, but you have me and this is who I am and this is what I offer. So if you're going to use my looks against me, that's on you, not on me. So I think like I was just throughout the whole process, just very confident on who I was that if someone were to say a comment or two about whatever comparison, like it didn't bother me because it just, for me like i knew where i was and where i stand uh one more question then we'll let you go how many days do you think it took bartiz to have sex with another woman after the wedding um actually do you guys know the tea i'd love to hear it from you well um i mean the very next day so within 24 hours of our wedding

he reconnected with our castmates and they went out got like a bottle service somewhere in dallas and um there was a tall blonde in that group not from our castmates but castmates bring friends sure and they were very from what i saw on social media, just from friends posting, I'm like, oh, that's Martiz. And then another girl close enough to him come to find out that weekend, which was Fourth of July weekend, they were on a boat. She was sitting on his lap. I cannot confirm anything about sex because I do not know his sex life. He seemed to confirm it. He seemed to confirm it when he told people, I loved when you were like, I'm not bringing up sex. And he was the only one who brought up sex.

Yeah. I was just like, oh my God. Like, okay. Yeah. So i think for me like that was probably another like not only was i blindsided but then you do this and i'm like bro like really like okay got it understood registered like it's a no for me but he apparently came up with his no right before his no i don't know yeah doesn't add up uh nancy i can't thank you enough for your time. I wish you all the best and all the happiness that you deserve. And I look forward to watching your journey as a person and whatever love story you end up. We look forward to finding out how this all ends for you. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate all your questions and your time as well.

All right. Take care. Bye, Nancy. Bye. Happy birthday. Thank you. 33. There you go. Lucky. Raven, how's it going? Good. How are you? I'm doing well. So, uh, so glad to be talking with you today. Thank you. I'm really excited. Yeah. Uh, we here. We love a good character arc. We feel like you had the absolute best character arc of the season. I'm curious about how you felt about your portrayal as someone who, you know, early on got some criticism. I think, you know, you even talked about, you know, like you, you know, you're not just not maybe you're just different than some people.

you know, like you, you know, you're not just not, maybe you're just different than some people. We're all different than all people, but I really kind of connected with you on that sense as someone who, who might be a little bit more, you know, introverted at times or quiet, you know, how did you feel about your representation on the show? Did you like the kind of arc that you had as someone or, or did you feel early on that wasn't the most fair representation? Yeah, I think seeing it at first with the rest of the world was hard to watch because I'm like, like, I'm not that negative. Oh, like, my facial expressions like are not so aggressive. But I think in a way it does speak to my personality. Like I definitely am more introverted, especially in this group of women.

Like I definitely am a little bit on the quiet side. Like I'm a little shy. So it took me a while to like get used to being on camera, being like surrounded by all of these people all the time. So it was definitely hard to watch, but I see myself in it, right? Like I am not like a crazy TV personality. I'm definitely like chill, go with the flow,

but it was hard to like get so much criticism, but it was a lot of growth. Sure. Well, yeah. And I appreciate your willingness to kind of be your most authentic self because while I know it can be hard as someone who's been in your shoes on that end too and get criticized, I know it can be difficult. I think it was great for a lot of people to see.

I'm guessing there are a lot of people saw themselves in you while watching, you know, and I feel like for the more quiet and reserved or even myself, a little bit more aloof person who can feel misunderstood at times, I feel like you were someone that people probably really connected with. And it wouldn't have happened had you not been so kind of authentic to yourself. Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you. And that makes me feel so much better. and I hope people could connect with it. And I saw like a few people on the internet, like, you know, you don't know what it's like, like being in front of the camera all the time. And like, no one, I'm not an actress. Like no one tells you like what to do,

what to say. So thank you for that. Because I am aloof. Same girl. Same. So you and SK, you guys are still together. I love how I feel like I called that last week, by the way. So suckers. I'm talking to Allie and Amanda. You guys.

I was the only one who thought they would be together. Well, you named it. I don't think we were like, no, there's no way they're together. You just seemed like a lot of love there. You put it out in the world. We didn't negate it. You're looking for an underdog narrative. No, I think you guys didn't believe in it. Or maybe that was Michelle.

You're just putting words in our mouth. Raven and SK. You know what, Raven? We love you. So how is it going? I'm assuming you're still together yeah we're still together so it's been a while now um yeah how long like how long has this relationship been going on oh like over a year um pretty much since filming after filming you know we had a weird space for a while he I think like within

that week um had to move to California so we definitely had like a long transition period um where we like we still talked but I don't I think it's been like a little over a year that we were officially like okay like you know we're gonna be official and move forward and kind of pick up where we left off. But there is so much love there. And like, he is literally my best friend. So yeah, we've been making it work between Texas and California. That's awesome. A couple questions on that. One, what advice do you have for anyone trying to make a long distance relationship work? what advice do you have for anyone trying to make a long distance relationship work? Ooh,

I think go on love is fine. No, I'm just kidding. Um, but really like what makes it work for us is that we have such a strong foundation. That's really like based in communication. So that I feel like is essentially what you need for a long distance relationship.

I trust him so much. And I also know that we have such good communication skills between each other that if something's wrong or someone needs a little bit extra poured into them or having a rough week, we can be that for each other. So I think for me, what I have always looked for in a relationship is like a really strong partnership, you know, and we really have that. So that's great. That's great. What is something that you feel like, not necessarily something you guys need to work on, but what is something that you as a couple that really communicates very well and what would be something you guys would like to, I guess, work on? Because we can always work on things to take your relationship to the next level. What's something that you guys are actively working on to really advance this relationship?

Yeah, yeah. I think because there's two things. And because we have such great communication, we talk about them all the time. So I hope he doesn't see this and he's like, babe, what the hell? So I would say first is really getting down how to communicate in each other's love languages specifically. Like, for instance, one of mine is like words of affirmation. And so all the time I'm like, I'm so proud of you, babe. Like, you're the realest, like whatever, like totally like lifting. Like, that is just my thing. And he's like, okay, cool.

Like, okay, because that is not how he receives love. And I'm like, I just wrote you an entire novel on why you're amazing. And he's like, I don't care. Um, versus his is physical touch. And I'm definitely more just like, not that way. So I think that is one of the ways that we can, uh, get a little bit closer and work on our relationship. I love that though. And I love how you guys are recognizing that so much about love languages. It isn't just about how you receive love, but how the other person receives love and that you guys are mindful of that. And I do think that's,

that's great because a lot of so many people hear love languages and they focus on themselves. Yeah. And that's, that is one part of it. But I think that's awesome that you guys are doing that yeah thank you and of course like roommate issues too because we don't live together 24 7 so when we do it's like you're dirty so yeah well in discussing living situations um the

conversations that you and sk had about like specifically like dividing rent while he was away caused quite the stir on the Internet. And I'm curious if like just kind of now reflecting on that, like if there's any context you would add or how you feel about that conversation. Yeah. So there was a lot like, of course, you can't see the entire conversation. It was like probably an hour long conversation. And we had not talked in depth about the minute details of him moving, how we're going to split things. And the pods were trying to build a connection as fast as we can. So that was literally one of our first conversations getting into the nitty gritty. And you didn't get to see all of it. But I don't know. Maybe it's just me.

But I feel like... How do I say this and not get canceled again? If I'm going to get married, don't expect... I want it to be a certain way. I just do. I feel like it's a partnership. We're combining everything. And that just wasn't the timing for us financially and with school and stuff like that. So I said what I said and I'm sticking beside it. I fucking love that, Raven, because I think people, we need to stop apologizing for our communicating our expectations, whatever those are. I mean, our expectations and what we want in relationships aren't for everyone. That's the whole point. And you having the guts to communicate that so that your partner has a clear understanding of what you want. And clearly SK is someone who likes this type of energy and likes to be the person who has great expectations of himself. Like clearly SK is someone who prioritizes

rising to the challenge, I think, of all things. And so to me, it makes a lot of sense that he fell in love with someone who is very good at communicating heightened expectations, whatever those are. And I'm sure there's plenty of men out there that's like, this is not for me, you know? And that's fine.

But I, and that's why like your character, I like so much because, you know, so much, and we saw this with other couples of, of not being clear or communicating what they want for fear of someone saying, well, I don't want that. That's not for me. And you're someone who seems to, to have that be a strength and even at the risk of, you know, being criticized or by the internet or things like that. So I absolutely love that be a strength. And even at the risk of, you know, being criticized by the internet or things like that. So I absolutely love that you did that. Yeah.

And like, all I asked for was half of the rent. Like, that's not even crazy. Girl, ask for whatever you want, you know? You're not going to get, you don't get what you don't ask for. So, you know? And now you guys are, yeah, I, I couldn't, I think it's incredibly healthy.

I mean, it's just whatever. It's just communication. Uh, like, like you said, um, do you have any other questions for,

for Raven? I'm curious, like what people might, would be really surprised to know about you. Ooh, I like that question. Um, Hmm.

I think you guys didn't get to see like a lot of my sense of humor. Like, I think I'm literally a comedian. Like, I'm hilarious. Quick, tell a joke. Okay, not on the side. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I really am funny.

And like, I think that's honestly one of the things that SK likes about me. Like we love to laugh. Like we have the same sense of humor. We love that. And I am definitely like a funny ass person. What else? I'm like also such an animal girl. And like we did so much animal stuff and filmed it and didn't make it in.

But I feel like that is a part of my caring, softer side. And I guess that part of me didn't really come across. I volunteer. I love animals. I love people. And I'm funny. But everyone just thinks I'm so cold. It's the plight of a reality TV star.

You never, you never get a nuance. You never get nuance or the ability to show all of who you are, but that's, that's what Instagram and Tik TOK are for. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's why I like, I literally love Tik TOK. Like I think it's so, it's my personality. I know you have to get going, but do you have any final thoughts or, or kind of cat, kind of piggybacking on what Amanda had to say about just what you want people to know or learn about your experience? Also, if there's anything, like I know you're saying, like, obviously you're long distance right now and you're having, you sometimes have like roommate difficulties when you get back together.

right now and you're having you sometimes have like roommate difficulties when you get back together but like if there's like certain things that you really are looking forward to and like your guys's next chapter of life when maybe you can live together and you can like be part of each other's lives on a more daily basis yeah totally um I think next in our relationship we are moving in together and gonna change locations and probably move um away from texas and i think kind of like having a fresh start together and creating um like our life from scratch will be really interesting and good for us to like each be able to put in what we want versus like him coming into my space in dallas and then me going into his space in San Francisco. So I'm really looking forward to that,

even though like we have stupid roommate issues, but we get over them. But yeah, learning from my experience, I am like a firm believer that dating in the pods, like pod style is so, so, so, so good, especially for someone like me, who just like my picker was off with men. I think really like being able to connect with a person without distractions, without any like pressures from the real world, really focusing on what is coming from that person's heart,

it's so much easier to make a decision on them. And it's so much easier to build a connection and answer questions. I feel like a lot of times as women, we're scared to ask questions to men that you're dating. I don't know. But the pods take all of that away. So I just encourage everyone, women and men,

to challenge themselves to date like that a little bit more. Ask the hard questions. Really, really, really try to get to know someone. Because a lot of times we skip parts in the real world. So I think that was really important to me and like I learned so so so much from that it's awesome well it's been a pleasure talking with you Raven I wish you guys all the best tell SK we said hello and we look forward to watching your love story together unfold

thank you thanks for having me y'all all right take care what did we think of Bartiz, Nancy and Raven? what were our takeaways? I mean, the biggest shock to me was the fact that he wasn't intending on sending her that gift. And that gift included a note that basically implied that he was ready to marry her. And it was written and sent simply as a response to him receiving a gift from her.

I mean, I think the biggest takeaway I have of Bartiz is, well, he might mean well, and I respect his willingness to take some criticism. And on the reunion, he really, he owned it. He owned his mistakes. So you got, you know, credit where credit's due there. All we can do is get feedback, take it in, and learn from it. You know, we'll see if he's willing to learn from it type of thing. But yeah, I think throughout the show itself, I think he just,

he really stopped. He's just in his, he's prioritizing his needs before anyone else's, right? And I think, listen, he's in his mid-20s. The 20s nowadays are generally a fairly selfish time in one's life. And for a lot of reasons, I think that's, well, I've always said it's time to be selfish too. But part of being in a serious, committed relationship is the ability to put your partner first and their needs first and to empathize and to be able to empathize in the moment without always having to apologize first before you learn how to empathize with someone. And obviously Nancy seems, that seems to be a strength of Nancy's, almost even to a fault sometimes that she's kind of acknowledged that, you know, I think she wants to have that empathy in her relationship. And so I think she makes the mistake of doing what a lot of us do is to, you know, she wants to lead by example. So I'm going to be empathetic and I'm going to do all these things and I'm going to be understanding. But the thing about empathy is people usually don't lead by example sometimes.

They actually have to learn the tough lessons. And so I think the question for Batiste is, will he learn from that? Because it just comes across as so insensitive. It's very reactionary. He didn't think, well, how is she going to see this? I'm just trying to not look like the bad guy in the moment. I'm just trying to not look like the bad guy in the moment. I basically just gave her a written near guarantee that I'm going to be saying yes, only to pull the rug out from under her. Sure.

Yeah. Also, does Raven and SK just prove that taking it slow? I mean, it's like some of the stuff we talk about on the show here, like taking it slow, not over committing, not jumping into things and thinking everything's perfect, not jumping into saying I love you, having some doubts, getting to to know each other do they prove that that is the way to go because they're still together doing well sure i mean i like there's a lot of things i like about their relationship and a lot of things more i mean shoot the way they communicated are more in lines with the things that we talk about on the show or things i talked about in my book because the kind of the old school approach or the reality TV approach, whether it's The Bachelor or Love is Blind, is to kind of like lean into the passion and lean into like, well, if I made a promise, you know, I called you my boyfriend or girlfriend, I called you my fiance, then I guess I have to

just lean into that. And I don't want to like ruin a good thing by asking some tough questions and things like that. I love that Nancy kind of acknowledged that going forward. She would like to still maintain that loyalty and that passion, but also be willing to... Like practice more discernment about who gets it. Exactly. And by doing so, asking more tough questions and checking in and things like that. So I love the growth that Nancy displayed. But yeah.

And also just giving some props so i think you know colleen and is it matt you know in terms of how they're married and yet they don't live together and i love colleen's answer by saying we got married in a very unconventional way so naturally our relationship is going to be a bit unconventional i almost kind of like taking a page out of sk and raven's book where it just like, who are we to decide? Like why? Like, yeah, they're married. Sure. And I'm not here to say what's healthy or not, but sometimes the challenge of relationships is the pressure we apply to those relationships, right? We will set these kind of artificial like timelines or these, you know, things that, you know, these milestones that we have to get to. And usually when we do that, we're doing it based off of how we think other people do it or how society thinks

we should do it, et cetera, et cetera. So to Colleen's point, it would almost seem crazy to meet the way they did and get married in the way they did and then try to have their relationship be like a very traditional conventional relationship, you know, because all of a sudden that's where the pressures of expectations can come in. It's like, oh, I guess we have to meet all these expectations of relationship standards. And that seems a bit crazy. So I commend them for doing that. Will it work out? I don't know. But I think it makes a lot of sense for them to be willing to say, oh, hey, we could add more stress by breaking a lease and trying to move in with each other

because we think we're supposed to. So let's just be reasonable and say what makes the most sense. Oh, we can still spend most of our time together without living under the same roof, so to speak. We can spend all our time together without living under the same roof. But let's not apply unnecessary pressure to ourselves and i thought that was great on both of them totally because like especially meeting in like this fairy tale vacuum where there aren't really outside factors of everyday life it's i think the least thing specifically of being like i have roommates i don't want to fuck them over by breaking my lease was like to me just felt so tangible of like oh this is such a grounded real world decision and an example of like it feels like a kind of they're starting to like go back to the real world

in that choice and like navigating it well and they also said that like they sleep together seven nights a week or not on Mondays to do laundry so it's like they're still having all this closeness and I do think it's a cool thing to be like you know when you have an untraditional meeting like it's you have very expansive opportunities to define what you want your relationship to look like did you think that Vanessa it less so critical but Vanessa definitely had a ton of follow-up questions over the fact that they weren't living together in kind of a I don't know I got a negative yeah she wasn't my favorite host. And I was thinking to myself, you want couples to be successful. If this is what's working and keeping them together, take it, run with it. Don't question that they don't live together. Just

accept it and move on. I don't think it's Vanessa's priority. I think it's maybe like her job and the show's priority could be two different things. But I agree. I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. Just felt like there was a lot of questions about that when there was a lot of other things to discuss. She came off fairly unlikable throughout the entire reunion. I thought that, that was just the standalone moment for me, honestly.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know other than that. My question is like kind of going back to Raven and SK, do you think, how do you think having that experience of Raven saying yes and SK saying no, even though ultimately definitely for the better, they're making a really good choice. Like, do you think that's something that will kind of be a seed that's planted in the relationship and emerge later on? Or do you think it's pretty evident that they've been able to navigate it and it's kind of open and shut case? after talking with Raven, it seems like it only becomes an issue if they don't address the issue. If they don't talk about it, if they don't communicate, if they allow their whatever

insecurity they could have about that situation, maybe specifically from Raven, if she held onto that insecurity without communicating it and then let that fester and then projected her insecurities onto him and then made assumptions about what he might be thinking and feeling, which again, we often do in this relationship. So I don't think it would or will. And if it had, I think it already would have. And it sounds like it never really was an issue for them. So yeah, I don't think it needs to be. I will say, going back to Matt and Colleen though, it's funny because Matt kind of addressed his reactiveness at the reunion, and I'm glad he did that. And honestly, I've checked in with some producers I know from the show, and they ultimately think Matt is a good guy. I think there was a lot of discussions was Matt showing glimpses of a more serious toxic behavior in terms of his reactiveness. And that was a big discussion point, I think, for a lot of people. I will say I did not like how he articulated it because it almost sounded like he was making an excuse. He answered it by saying, you know, I know I handled this poorly, blah, blah, blah, but it was because of the environment I was in. And I really

hated that because he was justifying the reactiveness. Because basically what he said without, I don't think he realized what he was saying, but what to me I took as, well, next time I'm in a, I feel just, you know, next time I'm in a, I'm caught off guard. There are certain contexts where it's okay for me to be reactive. Exactly. He was basically saying there's certain contexts in which it's okay to be reactive. And I would disagree with that. I think truly, that's the whole idea

of not being reactive is to regardless of the situation to be able to regulate your emotions and learn the steps to you can get mad. There's nothing wrong

with feeling and you're justified if you're feeling but how you handle it in the moment. So you're not someone who always has to apologize after the fact for

how you got angry. And it seems unclear whether Matt really grasped that because he was, I understand he was probably feeling defensive, but I failed to see a guy who fully grasped that he has to, next time that situation comes up, he can't react that way and then keep apologizing for it. And you're not going to have your buddies living down the hall or up on another floor to come and calm you down and tell you to stay engaged and stay married. So, you know, whether he has or hasn't, but I just did not like the way he articulated that

because it left a seed of doubt for me to know whether he's actually learned that lesson or not. Totally. I did think it was like i liked that they kind of called out the way like colleen handled the situation with like cole and hers exchange versus the way like cole handled it i thought it was cool to see the reactions to how differently things played out with cole and colleen based on how they what their actions were directly after their conversation how so

in the sense that like Matt acknowledged like you know Colleen when we watched it back like there wasn't there weren't any surprises like she was very transparent about communicating exactly what had happened whereas I think with Cole like and this is probably getting into a much meatier significant discussion topic but like communication was awry with him and zenub oh gosh i think cole and zenub are both toxic i think their relationship was incredibly toxic and i really struggled with zenub's lack of accountability for anything she's done this is not to excuse cole for anything like you know i want, I want to, I guess what I'm saying is I want to be able to criticize Zeneb without letting Cole off the hook for anything he said

or did, you know? And that was the problem I had watching the reunion. Wasn't that Cole wasn't, you know, like it's a lot of he said, she said, stuff like this. There was, you know, she said, stuff like this. Just because it seemed like everyone was on Zenub's side, coming from a reality TV background, I don't think the mob, so to speak, or the majority is always right. I just think people are incentivized to agree with the majority. All I'm saying is I don't know what to believe. I don't really believe either of them. You know what I'm saying? I believe they both showed toxic traits in a relationship. And I guess my biggest criticism of Zeneb was absolutely just, it didn't seem like any accountability for that relationship of which we saw toxic traits from both of them. We saw the nitpicking. We saw the critiquing of Cole while he was cooking and things like that. And that was just a glimpse of something nice he was trying to do.

We've certainly talked at length of the things that Cole is guilty of and how he spoke to her. I think after watching the reunion for me, it became so obvious why those two picked each other in the pods. Tell us. Because I think Cole was attracted to Zenub's maturity and almost like in a weird kind of toxic motherly way. And I think Zenub was attracted to Cole's immaturity. I think Zenob was attracted to someone

that she thought she could control and yeah, kind of mold into what she wanted. I think that's what drew each other to one another and I think that's why it ultimately didn't work out because I just didn't like that. Zenob seemed to want to blame Cole for all the insecurities she's ever had. That's how it felt. Was it blaming him for all of them or like blaming him for evoking them, making them more heightened?

It didn't seem, that's what, she didn't say that. I mean, you know what I'm saying? She didn't say, hey, I've had some insecurities in the past and you just played into those insecurities and made me feel worse. It was more like you've never made me feel, no one's ever made me feel like this. You started to make me feel like this. And she, she has, she came in with insecurities. She left with insecurities. And then again, that's not letting Cole off the hook for anything he's done. It was just more, I just didn't like what seemed to be a pile on, You know, like I thought the proposal was kind of tacky. And I think Cole made a good point.

It is like you're saying this for the first time in front of our families. That's not a productive, that's not communication. That's not creating a safe environment and setting an example of effective communication to two people claiming to be in love and two people claiming to be working towards this goal. That's not what that is. You mean the wedding, not the proposal, right? Like them on the altar? I'm sorry, the wedding, yeah. And so, yeah, if that was really the first time Cole heard that, it seems disingenuous. It seems performative. It seems like Zennep was trying to have her deep-d moment and it wasn't really about standing up for herself it was about how it came across that's how it came across to me I think there's maybe part of the

way that I interpreted it was because I think one thing that was pretty central in my interpretation of this was talking about the way like Zeneb and her body image and the way Colt was like discussing food and commenting on hers and they alluded to the fact that there was a lot of stuff that they didn't air surrounding that. So we just saw kind of the tip of the iceberg. And I think one, I think Cole absolutely like in terms of like who started it. And again, it's like in a relationship, oftentimes it doesn't really matter who started it. It's about who ends it. But I do think it's significant. Like it's not nothing. And I think Cole started that conversation by like using numbers to rate women, putting giving Zeneb a lower score than one of the other people there and I think with Zeneb it was clear that like to me it was just like really clear she was like engaging in like

disordered eating patterns and kind of like an unhealthy relationship with food that was so fueled by this insecurity like the flames of which were being fanned by Cole. And so I wonder if part of her having it all come like rushing out at the altar was like this kind of like wake up moment. To me, that was not Zenub having some sort of like aha moment in real time. And we just saw her like just speaking from the heart. I think it was all very planned out,

you know, from her saying all the nice things to all the things that made it seem like Cole was going to get married, you know, that she was going to say yes, the prayer and things like that. Like, she thought about that like anyone would, you know? Like, these people aren't going on TV and just not thinking about, they're just not going to be like, I'm just going to like, I'm just going to go up there and see what happens. No one's doing that. It's just not realistic. As someone who's been in those positions, like, going to be like, I'm just going to go up there and see what happens. No one's doing that. It's just not realistic. As someone who's been in those positions. And again, I want to be very clear.

My criticism of Zeno has nothing to do with not criticizing Cole. I think we can criticize both of them for their behaviors. Do you think it's like a Natalie and Shane situation where they bring out the worst in one another? Yeah, 100%. I think they could not have been more incompatible, Cole and Zena. Totally. It just doesn't add up to me. You know, it doesn't add up.

How can Zena put all of her insecurities on the blame? It seemed like she was just blaming all of it on Cole. And to go so far as to you, you're the reason who makes me feel this way. Because her accusations were very strong. And if there's any truth behind it, then Cole, it's not just a guy who's made a mistake or said a wrong thing he needs to apologize for and then learn a tough lesson. We've all said hurtful things to people we say we love. We've all had to apologize for stepping in it or being insensitive or lacking empathy with our partners. We've all done that. And if you can't acknowledge that, then,

you know, for anyone listening, then that's a real red flag. So we've all been there. But if, and the question is, is Cole someone who is immature and spoiled and selfish and needs to learn how to talk to women or people or have empathy? Or is he literally some sort of emotional abusing monster? I guess what didn't add up is when Cole started crying at the end. She literally said, if I could do it all over again, I would do exactly the same. That doesn't add up for me. Someone who also accused him in front of his family of being the reason why she doesn't have confidence in herself or she does, you know, she has all these, you know, self-doubts as a result of what Cole said to her. And if it really is a result of what Cole said to her, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect her to want to

relive that moment exactly as she lived it or experience those things that she experienced with Cole. I think Cole made some valid points at the reunion of like, and again, this is not to take off the hook of anything he said and did, but if it was as bad as she claims, if it was so one-sided, then why was she so willing to do these things or even willing at the end to say that she would relive exactly or she has no regrets or she would do exactly the same? That doesn't add up to me. And I just wanted Zenim to take some accountability for her behavior and the role she played in this seemingly mutually toxic relationship. to her making some comment previously about, oh, when I take my makeup off, I look like a different person or you won't recognize me. And then he made a response comment, not as if it was new, but it felt like he was building off of her original statement or her observation. I don't

know if he was joking. He probably shouldn't have said it whatsoever, but it was just so clear. And then that became a whole thing, but it it became a situation where felt like she was trying to pin that whole comment on him and that he was the one to come up with that so it was just two different people because i'm like you can have someone if zen up said oh i look like a completely different person when my makeup's off she might be looking for him to go oh my gosh of course not you're beautiful but his personality like partners i've had in the past might be building off that of either making a joke or being like, oh, wow, you totally do. Which some people might find funny and some people might be like, this is great. And other people, it could destroy them. So they're just too different.

Yeah. I think that's a great point. Like their sense of humor. Yeah. Talking about incompatibility. And I think Zeneb is someone who came in with a lot of insecurities. We all have insecurities. There's nothing wrong with having insecurities. But I think to your point, I think she has been always looking for a partner to make her feel less insecure before she

deals with her own insecurities on her own. And I think that plays a role in how she is in relationships. And I think that plays a role in how she is in relationships. And I think that plays a role in terms of why she seems to be the type of person who also nitpicks. I mean, again, these are two people who picked at each other. And I think we saw more of Cole. But I think that whole cooking episode, I think that is their relationship. I think they both are people who would nitpick at each other, who when they've hurt people, hurt people type of saying. When they felt small, they try to make the other person feel small too. I wonder if for me, I think part of the reason I

empathize, because I totally agree that it was very relational, that there were things that Zenub was doing that were really unhealthy for the dynamic. So I'm not saying it was one-sided. I think for me and wondering why was I so much more inclined to empathize with Zainab, it was kind of because there were almost like more receipts in terms of I interpreted a lot of her behavior as being very overbearing and nitpicky and critical as like somebody who has had to have her shit together for a really long time because of like this sense of like isolation and aloneness of like losing your parents like to me i think so much of the way that she was like a lot of what she was kind of pointing out with cole was his inability to be an adult the way she thinks an adult should exist sure just subjective like we can have empathy

without giving people an excuse you know that's like by doing like the way you're talking i just feel like that's like we could say well why is cole the way he is you know what what challenges he faced and i don't think there's an excuse for the way cole acted you know what i'm saying like i don't know how his parents treated him or what are you whatever he will fucking win through i don't know and it's not to compare what zenob went through and i empathize with whatever pain they both experienced. That's not an excuse as they're both adults. One might be older than the other. But if we're going to start making excuses for one, we can't just make excuses for one party and be like, this is the why of how they, this is what they've been through. And this is why they reacted the way they did. And that makes it okay. But

we're not going to have any empathy for the other party. I was just going to remind everyone that we don't have to have, you know, one perpetrator, one victim, one person's the bad one. And when we're talking about, you know, who has the receipts and who has which reasons, again, like we talked about with the Natalie and Shane of it all, there's not just like one bad person and one person who is the victim of the other. They both could have contributed to it. They could have both triggered each other. They could have both had shit coming into it they could have both triggered each other they could have

both had shit coming into it doesn't excuse anybody but it also doesn't mean we have to you know pound a gavel and say you're right you're wrong i'm with you on that but that's well that's my whole point is being like why am i more like like me saying it's very relational they both have things wrong so why am i feeling more empathy for zen up and like analyzing that about like that kind of like bias or that like what i'm coming into this conversation like valuing so I'm not trying to say that Cole doesn't deserve empathy I'm just explaining why for me Zeneb's side like resonated more without saying that it's the only side well I imagine yeah I've mentioned every you know all the people watching are gonna identify with certain people and things like that. I would have liked to see more

accountability from Zeneb because of how critical she was of Cole. While Cole is very much guilted for his actions, I do think she was cruel at times. I thought the whole wedding part was unnecessarily cruel. In my opinion, just watching the show, it seemed performative and it seemed to be about her wanting to look good and having her deep D moment, just like we've accused of other people wanting to have their Hannah Brown moment. And I think it didn't land the way she had hoped. And I think there's criticism to go around for that. And two people can be wrong. And two people can be wrong.

You know, and I just, I'm glad they're not together. Yes. And I hope Cole is sincere with his apology. And, you know, what was interesting with the reunion, I think he was clearly defensive and you have people piling on. But, like, his kind of apology at the end, it almost seemed like he really, while everyone was talking through the rest of the reunion, he kind of thought about the criticism coming his way. And it seemed like it's sincere. It's just like, well, if I did this

to you, I didn't realize. I'm sorry. I'm sorry if my words and actions, I think he finally realized the full scope of how it did impact Zennup. And I'm glad he acknowledged that and owned up to that. I just really wish that she would have done a little bit of that as well. Well, one thing I would love for Zeynep in the future is like something my therapist says a lot is like, people don't make you feel anything. They invite you to feel things. And I would love like, I think it gets more complicated in discussing it in reference to Cole because of course, like victim blaming is something like everyone everyone wants to really tiptoe and be very mindful of.

But it's uncomplicated in saying, in the future, I would love for Zenub to get to a place where she feels a little bit like she has more autonomy over the way she's reacting and navigating situations. And she's a little bit more self-aware and can make choices that like serve her and the other person better. Yeah. I would agree. Well, I mean,

final thoughts on Love is Blind. What a season, I guess, you know. Good season. Good season. Do we think out of the couples, who are we betting on?

Who are our, I mean, based on season two, who really knows? I think Zenim needs a Brennan in her life yeah everyone needs a I need a god damn Brennan

I don't think everyone needs a Brennan I don't really no I mean like he seems like a perfect guy for the right for a certain person you know but he is there to love and you know like I think he sees himself as someone who just wants to love on

their partner and he receives loves by his ability to give love i think it's a really selfless you know he seems really i don't know i you know interesting enough i don't know what brandon's needs are he didn't really communicate them all that much other than the desire to want to love somebody and maybe that's all he needs i don't't know. And for some people, that's enough. But I think Zenim needs someone who really is sure about themselves and so much focused that he just wants to make their partner feel loved and special and validated. Not everyone's like that. A lot of people want to feel that mutually. I think, a lot of, I think Zena needs someone in her life who feels a little bit more luckier to have her than she feels to have them.

And I think other people in relationships, I think like SK and Raven are people who want that to be mutual. You know, they have equal expectations of each other. They have equal expectations, how the other person's supposed to feel. And they have equal expectations of each other. They have equal expectations how the other person's supposed to feel. They have equal expectations of how lucky they want the other person to feel. Because I think they're both coming from a place of, like, confidence and general, like, security within themselves. Totally. I just don't see that with Zenub. Yeah.

And, like, I think the open communication was so impressive with Raven and SK. Like, the way they navigated at first when it was, was like sort of, it seemed like they didn't have necessarily the same chemistry that other couples had at the beginning. And like, I just remember the way SK addressed that and like talked about progressing realistically was so emotionally intelligent. One of my favorite things that SK said at the reunion or throughout the entire season

is how he pointed out how he quite likes that Raven is Hidan or he quite likes that other men areedon, or he quite likes that other men are attracted to Raven. And I could not have related more to him in that moment. The people I date or have been in relationships with, Natalie, I love that I know that she is sought after and desired, and I love that she chooses me. And you can't say that unless you are a self-confident person who's secure in their relationship or secure attached, if you will. I know I don't talk about that stuff all that much.

But I don't think a Cole or a Zenub are capable of having the relationship that Raven and SK have. And I think it's because they both have to truly both work on themselves a lot. And I personally think the SK and Raven type of relationship is the type of relationship I have always desired or want to have in my relationship, you know, like long distance, whatever that's, you know, whatever their current situation is, but how they communicate, their style, their trust.

Because as I like insecure, like jealousy only comes from insecurity, you know, that insecurity either that you bring into the relationship or the insecurity that comes from, you know, Cole and zena make each other feel more insecure about themselves totally you know like it's like an echo chamber yeah you know like i'm sure cole has heard you're immature i'm sure you know i'm sure cole has his insecurities i don't know what they are and i think he masks them with this bravado and type of frat boy energy. But yeah.

And I think if you want to have a relationship that SK and Raven have, it comes from yourself first of having that self-confidence and belief in yourself and knowing that your partner is going to choose you and not be, you know, so insecure that you need to test your partner, you need to test them and things like that. And, um, yeah.

So we wish them well, which I, yeah, I love, uh, I love that for, uh, I really,

really like SK and Raven's relationship. I do. And I don't think they got enough credit for, for how healthy it seemed to be. I agree. Cheers. Shout out. Well,

but wraps up our Love is Blind discussion. Time for texting office hours. How's it going? Hi there. My name's Taylor. I'm 23. How can we help, Taylor? All right.

So I've been talking to a guy who I went on a date with six months ago, and we've kept in touch since. And then we finally just recently hooked up and now I don't know where to go from here. Okay. Why don't you know where to go from here in your words? Because we like, we don't text, we don't like have any plans to hang out again. So we just talk over Snapchat, but I know that he has a lot of qualities that I'm looking for in someone else. Such as? He is like the funniest person, maybe borderline funniest person I've ever met in my life.

Great. I have like a really bold personality and not everyone can handle it, but he can handle it. Okay. So you feel accepted by him a little bit? Yeah, I feel like i could tell him my whole life story and he wouldn't judge me okay um i'm so curious what you mean by bold yeah bold yeah how have you felt judged by other people you've dated in the past i'm very outgoing and very blunt yeah so some people i'm just like a little bit too much for some people you've been criticized

for a lack of filter in the past, maybe? Oh, yeah. I don't have a filter, but I've gotten better. Okay. Well, or maybe you don't need to get better. Maybe you just need to find people. Yeah. Which one do you think it is? Do you think you need to find people who just accept you, or do you think you could work

on the filter, or a little bit of both? I think people are just a little too sensitive these days. Okay. All right. Yeah. Fair enough. And so you said you finally hooked up with him what how walk us walk us through that love story um okay so i the week leading up to halloween weekend i found out that our worlds were going to like very much

collide like i knew that my friends were going to show up at the same pregame as his friends and i knew this the whole week going into it I just didn't say anything but I think he found out right before I showed up that I was going because I ended up being like the topic of discussion before the pregame which I found out through like an inside source and he was saying that like he's very confused about him and I being together and at this point I'm just thinking we're like friends that are like maybe a little like friendlier than a normal friend so I'm not that confused at this point, I'm just thinking we're like friends that are like maybe a little like friendlier than a normal friend. So I'm not that confused at this point. But anyways, I walk in and like, boom, like sparks are flying, like energy's high,

a lot of PDA going on here. And then it was really fun. And then I ended up like venturing off doing my own thing. And then next day, I decided to keep the festivities going. venturing off doing my own thing. And then next day, I decided to keep the festivities going. And I go to Sunday Funday. And I walk into the bar and he's there. And I lock eyes immediately. And this time, I actually didn't know he was going to be there. And we hung out all day. And then Sunday Funday turned into Sunday evening, turned into Sunday night. And I ended up at his house and we were hanging out for a little bit. And yeah i ended up spending the night but we weren't like drunk or anything sunday we were just like having a good time and then now i'm confused after that but i know i don't want a situation ship with him

okay so have what have you have you spoken with him since you guys hooked up yeah like talking how like we were talking before like every day like messaging over snapchat stuff like that do you like me i feel like we all think that messaging over snapchat is a bit of a red flag why do you feel like you're only messaging over snapchat i don't know have you i would text him back if he texted me have you stated your expectations in terms of or your desires in terms of how you would like to communicate with him? No, because I kind of just realized that what they were. Okay.

Well, I would start there. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, do you have his number? Yeah. You do have his number.

Yeah. All right. Uh, what do we think of her sending him a text that says going forward? I think this is our, should be our main form of communication. I'm all for cutting to the chase. Honestly,

I feel like, yeah, the talking on Snapchat feels very high school or collegiate to me. I'm not a fan of it. So if he's not down to text, I'd say boy, bye. Yeah.

I think it'd be playful. Right. I just think you don't, I don't think you should be like, Hey, I was wondering if you would like to like, why don Yeah. I think be playful, right? I just think you don't, I don't think you should be like, hey, I was wondering if you would like to, like, why don't we text ever? Like, I don't think you should ask him that or ask for his permission to do that.

I think you should just tell him what you want out of this relationship. So I think you've hooked up with this guy. You're talking with him on a regular basis. There's a lot of things you like. And I think you stated your desire not to have this be a situationship that part's on you like it's it's you know situationships happen when we accept less than what we want in a relationship and often that happens as a result of not communicating what our expectations of relationship are to that person you know and because we're like oh well

you know i'm here i'm hanging out this guy and we finally hooked up and I don't want to ruin like, oh, I don't want to ruin this momentum. So I'm just going to stay quiet with the things that I want and the things that are going to make me happy, et cetera, et cetera. So if you truly don't want this to be a situationship, which I think is an amazing goal to put out there. I think a lot of people aren't, don't even say that, right? They're not, they're not even thinking, well, I don't want this to be a situationship. They're just so afraid of, of, of the situation, the situation ending. But to do that, you have to state your expectations with him. Yeah. So I think what else, what other expectations do you have for a relationship with anyone? So that's like another another internal battle I'm going through

because I'm in a very vigorous academic program right now. And honestly, one reason why I don't think I've been that proactive about the situation is because finding my guy right now and being in a relationship just isn't my top priority. I mean, if it comes along like the right person came along, I would make time for them, but it's not a top priority.

But I do know like it's hard to find people who like you are compatible with or could potentially be. So I feel like I would regret not exploring more if I didn't. Is it right person, wrong time? Do we believe in that? No, I don't. Okay. Because I think if it was the right person, it would be the right time. I believe in the fact that you can be attracted to a bunch of different people.

And I think a lot of people you can have chemistry with. And I think there's a lot of people you can be compatible with. And when we interact with those people, we can feel all sorts of different things, many of which we can feel a lot of potential and excitement around. But if the wrong time is also just saying great but not my person you know what i'm saying that's just like it's just like a convenient way uh i think people i chalked it up along with the everything happens for a reason it's just a way to make ourselves feel better about a situation that didn't end up the way we wanted it to

especially if we're on the, like the receiving end of rejection, Oh, this is the wrong place, wrong time. Or, you know, it just makes ourselves feel better. I just think it's just, Oh, that was a person who I had a lot of potential with. It just, I also realized that maybe it's not, they're not giving me everything I want or need in a relationship, you know? And so I think you need to decide too. It's just like, what do you want out of this? I think you can be in a very intensive school program. You can have a job with a lot of responsibility. You can have other priorities and you have to decide, are you capable of fitting in a romantic relationship that you need to prioritize? And are they capable of being

someone who has the self-confidence and the ability to be a priority but also support your other priorities? So that's another expectation you're going to want to set with someone that you want to have some sort of relationship with. So I guess my first question is, do you want a relationship with this guy? Because if you don't want a situationship, does that mean you want to have some sort of relationship with. So I guess my first question is, do you want a relationship with this guy? Because if you don't want a situation ship, does it mean you want a relationship? Because it seems unclear. I would. You would. All right. If like, if like we kept going like how we were and I still liked, liked all the qualities that like I found out about him, like if it still was going really well, I would want to turn into a relationship. Yeah. So I think step one is for you to state an expectation about how you want to communicate

with this guy going forward, which is not on Snapchat. You can be playful. No. You just say, going forward, I think this is how we should communicate

via messages. You think that's playful? Yeah. Well, I think another... Like send a smiley face. Like don't... Oh, okay. You know,

send a... You don't have to be bossy but just be like hey i think we if you really want to be playful like now that we've had sex i think we can progress i think that's actually more fun than your first draft well sure i like yeah i would want it to be fun now that we've fucked i feel like we can let's upgrade let's upgrade to text messaging let's graduate let's graduate to messaging. I also think like if he Snapchats you, like if he snaps you, you can just respond to his snap via text and then acknowledge it there. If you feel weird like texting out of the blue.

Oh, that would be funny. I mean, you've had sex with him. You've seen each other naked. Let's not make texting such a big step or big milestone in this connection. Yeah. such a big step or big milestone in this in this connection yeah i think if you can't state that you would rather text message via snapchat then we're not where we need to be okay so yeah you're probably let's not tiptoe around that let's just put that out there and you could be playful and if he does like i want to like grab his attention now that we've seen

each other naked i think we can graduate to text messaging. See what he says. Yeah, that's fun. Or we could do a hybrid. If he doesn't answer, then you have an answer. What if you do a hybrid? If he messages you on Snapchat, send two. Respond to it.

And then in parentheses say, now that we've seen each other naked, I think we can graduate to text. Yeah. So it's not just like a... we can graduate to text. Yeah. So it's not just like text that to him. Yeah. So if he texts you like, oh, like I'm on my way to dinner at such and such place. Be like, let me know how that place is in next text in parentheses. Now that we've seen each other naked, I think that we can upgrade a text. Like respond to it in text because it gives him something to respond to.

But then what is he going to say? Hey. I think she should literally send him a text right now and just say now that we've seen each other naked i think we should graduate to text messaging why do we have to like wait for some setup you know like this is not like someone who's shooting their shot with a stranger or or that's the whole point of the text we've now that we've seen each other naked, I think, you know, to your point, like I think the Snapchatting is a little silly and ridiculous. And why has that become such an acceptable form of communication to the point

in which you're nervous? The fact that you're nervous about this is silly. I don't think you're silly, but it is silly. So let's not, I think it makes it even more silly for us to try to tiptoe around how do we shoot our shot just just do normalize text messaging by just making it seem normal and be playful about it and if if he's if he has a barrier if he's resistant to it, then that's a red flag. Why? Immediately, if he gives you resistance, I think it's acceptable for you to be like, why are you so resistant to this? I think if he didn't answer, I would just cut him off completely. Like, all communication.

You're going to... Why? Like, if he doesn't answer that text that I sent him, I wouldn't answer him anymore. Well, I love that you're setting... Oh, sure sure that's you just enforcing a boundary i yeah i agree with you don't once you say that don't respond to him via snap anymore until he makes texting the primary uh communication yeah okay yeah that's what i'm thinking too but if this someone who you've progressed and gotten to know like don't don't ghost him you know like yeah listen if he you really think there's a chance he's never going to text you no he he might answer he might why why why i'm curious what makes you think he's so unlike? Why are you so worried that he

might not? I feel like I've texted him in the past and he hasn't answered, but very sporadically. I think I asked him to meet me somewhere, my friends at a bar, and he didn't answer. Or maybe I called him randomly and he didn't answer. I don't know. All right well let's let's get an answer it's not a weird thing that's what you have to remember that texting is not weird what's weird is to only snapchat so like you're not the weird one for wanting this so you should if it's not if it's normal then you shouldn't have to explain yourself you know so don't feel like you need to justify why you need to do this it's just you you you

have the right to be like why don't you want to do this okay if it's it's weird not to be willing to text i yeah i think it's weird too so knowing that just know that you should like anytime you feel like you you shouldn't be the one who have to explain yourself on this thing. That would be him. And then assuming he responds, I think then maybe ask him out on a date. And then on the date, I think you should try to define the relationship a little bit more. Doesn't mean you have to call him your boyfriend or girlfriend, but defining the relationship isn't just about titles. It's about resetting and setting expectations or setting or resetting expectations if you want to go in order, so to speak. So those expectations you could set would be something like, well, I mean,

I really enjoyed getting to know you. Obviously I had fun last night. I want to keep getting to know you more and I love, I want to progress things and like, I want to keep getting to know you more and I'd like to see where this can go. Put some sort of goal attached to it, you know? Or, you know, what do you want from this? Do you want to set expectations around being exclusive with one another now that you've, you know, do you want to keep having sex with him? Do I? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And if you keep having sex with him, do you want him to not have sex with other people?

I definitely wouldn't want to know about it if he was. And is that what you really want or is that what you're willing to accept? Because there's a difference. And for someone who says they don't want to get in a situation ship, you need to be very careful and know the difference between being willing to accept something and stating an expectation. Because I think a lot of people in your shoes start just figuring out what they're willing to accept, which goes against what they really want, right? Yeah. Because I was like, oh, do you want to have him stop sleeping with other people? And you answer that by saying what you would be willing to accept, which is clearly not what you want.

That's what it sounds like to me. Because what would you want? If you got to call the shots, would what you want, is all you want is to not hear about it? Or would you just rather have him not sleep with other people while you guys are having sex? Yeah, probably not. Especially if we were like hanging out more regularly too, if it became more regular. So I would love for you to maybe give it some real thought, even writing it down, I think would be a good exercise for you. What do I want from this? Realistically, you know, and don't forget about what he wants. Don't forget about what you think he's going to be okay with. Just put out what you want, you know, that once you state your expectations with him, he might rebuttal and say, well,

this is why I don't want, this is why it might be hard for me to meet that expectation. And then you guys can discuss and figure out whether there's a match there but let's before you start you know renegotiating with yourself just write down what you want right and then communicate that send that text let's just send it right here right now right now why not it's so wild but you're in the company of friends you'll never feel more confident than you do in this moment. Literally seeing you naked. I feel like. You guys think I should send it right now?

Why not? Who is this person we're so afraid of texting? If he's that easy to spook, you don't really need him. Okay, wait, what am I saying? Now that we've seen each other naked, I think we should graduate. Wait to text message. Okay. I'm sending it. Amazing.

That was like a golf clap. That's so scary. Don't be scared. Let us know if he responds at all. And then, but promise me if he does respond,

I, you know, be playful, but ask him on a date next time. Like say like, when are we hanging out again okay just say something like that yeah i'd love to see you again be assertive

tell them what you want take take charge of this you know you know what you want so go get what you want and communicate it and next time you sit down with them face to face then that's when you i think you should communicate some more expectations and it seems like from hearing from you that your expectations are to communicate that you would like to progress, you would like to continue what you're doing, but advancing it by setting some more clear expectations around, if we're going to keep hooking up, I want it to be exclusive. And if he gives you the, oh, I'm not looking for a relationship right now, then you have your answer. Because you are. Because you just said, I don't want a real situationship. And then you say, well, I don't want a situationship, so I think we just are going to have to end it.

Yeah, like I have good intentions. So if he doesn't, then like I have no desire to keep talking. And he has the right to say no, right? Yeah. But don't renegotiate with yourself. Don't reevaluate your expectations just because your expectations aren't met. Okay. Okay?

Okay. All right. Well, keep us posted. Good luck. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Well, keep us posted. Good luck. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Bye-bye.

Bye. Well, thanks for listening, guys. I hope you enjoyed our 500th episode as much as we enjoyed giving it to you. Once again, can't thank you all enough for being a part of this journey. However many episodes you listen to, I know there's so many of you out there

who have listened to every single one. So many of you have come up to me and told me that. I appreciate it. It's always been very meaningful. People come up to me and share that they listen to the show and podcast. So if you ever see me out there, don't be afraid to do that. Say hi. Thanks, everyone who's ever listened. Don't forget to tell your friends. For all you Ask Nick listeners out there, don't forget to tell your guy friends about this, all the, don't forget to tell your guy friends about this, all the guys who are your brothers or your guy friends who are struggling in relationships. If you know of a friend or if you're in a situationship yourself and you want to see

if you can kind of shit or get off the pot, how about you both come on an Ask Nick episode? We'd love to hear those stories. I would love to have two people in a situationship come on and ask Nick episode. We'd love to hear those stories. I would love to have two people in a situationship come on and ask Nick and figure out if we can turn this into a relationship or if we can just maybe stop wasting each other's time. That would be awesome. Again, Jason Nash next week also will be talking with a diagnosed sociopath. And if you want to meet other singles or people dating or people who listen to the show or read Nick's book in your area, make sure to find your local Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday book club on our Instagram or you can search for them on Facebook.

And keep your eyes out tomorrow for an extra special new segment about breakup songs. Oh, yeah, that's right. And our installment number three of the update episode drops tomorrow. So don't miss that. So yeah. We work hard so you don't have to. All right.

I think that's it. Well, happy 500th episode to everyone. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.