The Viall Files - E504 Going Deeper with Jason Nash Plus Conversation With A Sociopath

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by YouTuber, podcast, and comedian, Jason Nash! On this episode we kick things off by wrapping up our recap of Love Is Blind Season 3, digging into the cuties scene. We then react to the breaking news of Pete Davidson dating Emily Ratajkowski and what we think of his dating life overall. We then welcome Jason himself to dive deep into his new podcast, how he got his start with YouTube, being a dad, navigating social media, and his biggest fear. We then have Kanika Batra, an influencer diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, call onto the show to give us an honest and transparent look into her life, dating, and what she wished women were better at doing. We then get into some pop culture news, talking about disappointment from Selena Gomez’s kidney donor, Chris Evans dating, and the Taylor Swift Mastermind TikTok trend. We then welcome our Texting Office Hours Callers to give them advice as they navigate the dating world. Our first caller is wondering how to deal with a guy breadcrumbing after it seems like things have fizzled out. She asks for advice on how to create some new sparks. Our next caller has been in a situationship for a few months and wonders how to get the guy to take it seriously. Now she must learn how to shoot her shot and state what she’s looking for.  “Love bomb, devalue, discard.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET  on Amazon's Amp app.  Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen: Brooklinen’s Black Friday/Cyber Monday Sale is only for a limited time, and the deals don’t get better. And if you happen to have missed out — use promo code VIALLFILES. Visit http://www.Brooklinen.com and get $20 off plus free shipping on orders $100+ with code VIALLFILES Away Travel: This Holiday season gift Away at http://www.AwayTravel.com/viall. Storyworth: Go to http://www.StoryWorth.com/viall and save $10 on your first purchase! Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @jasonnash @kanikabatra See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda. Ladies, how are you? Just thriving. Yeah, I was in the Redwoods for the weekend. Oh, yeah, you were up north. It was awesome. It was so good. I thought it would just be like more of a trip focused on like seeing the boyfriend, but as like a vacation itself, phenomenal. Well, I went to Harry Styles on Friday. Wow. That was fun wearing the shirt that's an

amazing shirt i got the hoodie too i have the t-shirt and the hoodie he's a he's an incredible performer we had amazing seats it was great there was a gender reveal that was fun uh we saw these ladies on on tiktok because he does the whole thing where he reads the signs you know he takes a break and then people have their signs and the clear the signs are trying to get harry to notice them so he's already trying to pick the most clever signs there was one and these uh i found we found them on tiktok because they have they did a tiktok about it but their sign was it was two uh women with their dad i don't know how old they were, but their sign was, this is our dad, but you are our daddy.

Love that. It was really quite fun. And they made a fun TikTok about it. Let me see. Natalie sent it to me. Their names were, let's see, Mary Sheets.

Mary Sheets made a TikTok about it. So Mary Sheets, I believe her sister and her dad. Handsome fellow. I remember Natalie said at the concert, he's kind of sexy. The dad? Yeah.

Oh. He looks like a handsome guy. Yeah. But it was fun. I had a good time. Love it. Thanks, Seat Geek. They hooked it up.

We had great seats. I know. I saw it on your Instagram. I flew home for a surprise party for my mother's 60th. Planned a whole party. Flew across the country. It was an ordeal because I flew home, my sister and her now husband flew home, but we had to coordinate a lot of things.

So I had your party the night before, went to bed at 1.30, woke up at 3.30 for my 6 a.m. flight. I was thriving. Flew home. You went home to Minnesota this weekend? Mm-hmm. My dad picked me up we went to the balloon store we then went to the venue set up the whole room um

went to lunch and got two rounds of drinks at 2 p.m. because that's what my dad and I do and then I he went back to work but I was just sitting in their house

waiting like I was like my mom might just come home early from work so that was my panic. So then I cleaned up everything. I put all my luggage in my closet because I wanted to surprise her at the dinner. So if she came home early, surprise was over. But I had to think through everything. Like I dumped my glass into the sink and I was like, well, I can't put my glass in the dishwasher.

So I put it back in the cupboard and then got it later that night because it was dirty. But I was really trying to think everything through. I did a whole vacuum so that Kiki's hair wouldn't give it away. And then I hid at the neighbor's house and watched my mom across the street. And then my sister and husband landed at like 7.15. The dinner started at 7. They Ubered straight there. I met them in the parking lot, put their bags in the trunk, and

then we walked in like it was the most natural thing. I feel like you're describing this like a heist in the best way. It was. It was. Have you ever watched your parents in their own home from across the street? It's really great. It's fun. Huge success? It was a great success. She cried. Yeah.

That was a good time. We love moms. We love a good happy story. Happy 60th yeah it seems like a lot of you want a little more discourse about the cuties scene and the love is blind finale reunion and i made a tiktok about this but i feel like the the biggest takeaway was just how many people's opinions changed by seeing a two and a half minute clip you know and i think this is a good reminder that while these are fun, entertaining shows, and we love to break them down and we love to critique these behaviors and be snarky and have fun and that's all great. And we do it on both The Bachelor and we do it on

Love is Blind, but it just goes to show you just how much a two and a half minute scene can change your point of view and how much context can change your opinion not everyone's opinions change i know i make those i mean i was like well you didn't change my opinion and i'm always like congratulations for your opinion it's just like early adapter yeah wonderful but uh yeah i mean like i like yeah i don't know if that that's what we shared last week i think zenob is someone who's seems to have a lot of insecurities that that existed before she went on the show and uh it seems like cole triggered some of those insecurities but i don't think he's solely responsible for them and she you know again we talked about she seemed

like she wanted to blame uh all that on him but that's not without cole like clearly that is not compatible and like you know what happened two and a half minutes after that QD scene or two and a half minutes before, you know, uh, and the music that is played on these, um, in these scenes heightens,

like these shows are meant to trigger y'all, you know, it's meant to trigger us. So, and I thought about this yesterday and I get it right. Like when we watch like movies and TV shows that show two people fighting with ominous, suspenseful music, usually someone dies at the end of that scene or something horrific happens.

They want us to be triggered, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we know that what happens or someone's an abuser or someone's a narcissist. I think we just need to bring it back just a little bit. And again, we, I think, can break down these scenes and critique these people's behaviors. And we can make guesses on how we think they are as partners, but they are just guesses. And so, yeah, I think that's my thought on the cutie scene. But yeah, I don't think they're compatible. And I never thought Cole was responsible for Zenim's insecurities. And after seeing the QDC,

it solidified that. And I think he needs to be more self-aware about how he speaks to people in general about eating habits. And he needs to be self-aware that if you make a comment about someone's looks and you rate them as a number, that there's going to be residual effects to that and how you communicate with that person in the future. And if they come with insecurities, it's only going to snowball even more. And I don't think Cole's responsible for that, but I think he needs to recognize the impact those comments have on anyone, let alone people who might come in with... Yeah. It's like preconceived notions pre-existing.

Pre-existing insecurities i don't know and i know we got a lot of questions too about like i know a lot of people are like oh the whole cast owes cole an apology and then since then like zenim put out a post that she's not sorry yeah and i think alexa and some of the other women have come forward yeah zenim said i'm sorry you weren't in that relationship i'm sorry you didn't feel what i felt i'm sorry we don't have the same triggers i'm sorry me standing up for myself offended you so greatly i'm sorry you didn't see all the reasons for what i said i'm sorry you didn't live that with me i'm sorry you don't know me i mean no accountability yeah but par for the course and then alexa said there will be no apology from me there are multiple reasons why

we stuck by her we spent almost every day together so I will not take advice from anyone who was not there. There are two sides to the story, and I still stand by what I said. The Clementine story is irrelevant. I don't like bullies, and I will always stand for those who are in the right. It's truly heartbreaking to see how low and disgusting the internet can be. I hope you feel better after commenting such vile things. I do agree with that. Like, we weren't there.

Sure. Yeah. commenting such vile things i do agree with that like we weren't there sure yeah but what i don't like about it i i hate it when the real people on reality tv don't give me the whole like there's things that happen that you don't know if you're gonna say that just fucking say what happened like you don't get the you know these cryptics like well there's just things you know when she's like when you're ready to talk about it i think it's such a convenient thing to say those things because they kind of almost come across as like veiled threats or whatever. Like if you're going to just say it, if you're going to make an accusation like that, just say what they did or say nothing at all. In reality, if people ask me

what I thought about that, like, I think they're just being friends with their friend. They're just being, they're being girls, girls, they're being loyal to their friend and I have no problem with that. I would do the same. No, but also like... We all would. We would all stand up for our friends. Yeah, like I said, they've heard Zenub's story.

There probably are two sides to every story, but they're going to have their girls back and there's probably other things that happened that we didn't know, but I'm sure because they're friends with Zenub and I've heard the women are very close, they're going to be biased towards Zenub and that's what friends do. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan,

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See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. Experts only available with TurboTax Live. And it makes us feel like, okay, we can like start to decipher this insane calculus problem when like in actuality so much of it is like not a right or wrong. It's just an incompatible and different realities. Like for me, the cutest scene was that was just like utterly different realities. Like I see how Cole had like had truly no like clue how that comment could have had an impact. I see how Zen of like how that comment like cut to the core of a lot of stuff she was like feeling and dealing with and so it's two completely different planets like and you could see it it was almost like a like a relationship or an acting exercise where you see certain lines hit the other person in a way that they weren't necessarily intended to it was so clear that they were on just two

completely different pages totally of how that conversation my call was like when she was like i only when he was like, don't ruin your appetite. We've all told people, like, oh, we have dinner coming up. Appetito, as he says. Yeah, don't ruin your appetite, whatever. And he probably wasn't thinking how that could make, how she might receive it. Clearly, he hasn't spent a lot of time trying to empathize with people. Well, and her saying, oh, I would like, I, you know, she had some vague phrase of oh I would go into it but I don't know

if you want me to or something along those lines and then he jumped straight into oh are you getting wedding dress ready like it just everyone was everywhere all at once yeah but and then she was like well I haven't eaten all day and then his look was like shock he's like well why in case he was confused he didn't understand it was just like a genuine interest he didn't think it was some big thing. Again, I think they couldn't be more incompatible. Regardless of his mistakes, do you think at the reunion that Cole gave, at least from his point of view, a genuine apology? Do you think he was sincerely sorry for realizing that whether he meant to or not, he had said things that hurt her feelings?

Do you think he was genuine? I do. I think it was at least rooted in... I'm not saying it was the perfect apology. I'm just saying it came from like, hey, wow, I guess I really fucked up. I'm sorry. I hope you forgive me. I like that he did say,

not even what he did, but I like how he mentioned watching it back was so hard for him because clearly... I don't know why that to me adds to the... what am i trying to say sincerity yeah adds the sincerity like clearly because i think it'd be one thing if he like obviously he didn't know when i don't know what i'm trying to say i i in retrospect i think it's even more impressive that like he could go through that not knowing it re-watch and have a completely different opinion. Yeah, that's what I wish for Zenub. You know, again, I don't think there's a good or bad guy here.

I think these are flawed people who could benefit from therapy as we all could if we have the means. But I feel like from my point of view, Zenub loses credibility by doubling down on the, I don't owe anyone an apology. I'm not apologizing for anything. And it's just like, whoa, wait, anything, nothing, nothing at all. You can't just throw out a, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry for anything I did. You know, that doesn't like

Zenob's talking in these absolutes. Like if I apologize to you, then that discredits the apology that you owe me. Cause I don't doubt that Cole wrongs Zenob in some ways. And I don't doubt that maybe there's something else that we didn't get to see that also offended Zeneb and that she hopes that college hoping that Cole should apologize for or talk about whatever she was alluding to. But this idea that she's somehow completely off the hook or has done nothing wrong and all of her mistakes are all like fly under the umbrella of I was standing up for myself or in a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I had my reasons to say the insensitive things or to nitpick or to nag or belittle or to condescend. That's where she loses me. And I just wish, like I said last week,

that she would just recognize that she probably made some mistakes too. I think that would go a long way for her credibility in who we should believe. Because when someone's like, no, I did nothing wrong. And it's just like, okay, well, how am I supposed to believe if you can't see that you made at least a mistake? It really reminds me of when I was a kid, sometimes my brother and I would get into fights about stuff. And I would be like, but he started it. And my dad and I would like get into fights about stuff and like I would be like but he started it and my dad would always be like it takes two to tango and I was just like what like I was like that is bullshit like what do you mean it takes two to tango this man took the last cookie like you know like that was the mindset I had and I didn't it's like not until I got like so much

older and like more mature to be like oh I didn't have to respond to that yeah just like kind of separating that like initial infraction from like all the stuff that transpired like just like separating it that's my biggest red flag for zen of the her the fact that she's so reluctant to have to have any accountability like says something right like it's there's clearly a fear it's just like well if i have to apologize and you know yeah and i think it's kind of the perfectionism that again like we saw in like the ways that she felt upset when cole wasn't doing anything up to her standard where i think she is someone who like has to live in this absolute of like because she has to face her insecurities or whatever it is that she is trying to avoid she her lack of accountability is her trying to avoid something i don't know what it is this is

making me think about the fact that like, and we talk about this all the time, like how when someone is defensive, you're probably not going to get through them. Like once you trigger like the bear, like you're probably not going to change minds. The best you can do is hope the bear doesn't attack. And it's so interesting to me that we live in this world

where like we're constantly trying to like with cancel culture, like that's really just an attempt at like trying to be more thorough of calling out infractions and trying to like improve our overall behavior but in doing so we're constantly trigger like attack defense mode which is like so not conducive to anybody like you need to feel like empathized with and like you need to feel really safe to admit you were wrong and we're like creating this i don't know i just think it's a wild time we live in yeah well those are our thoughts

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All right, we're cutting in this episode to do some breaking news that we didn't film. Apparently, Pete Davidson has a new girlfriend, and it's... None other than world-famous supermodel... Emily Odeikowski or Emrata. Emrata. I mean, we all ask.

It's bullshit now, right? So it's not... Now I just... Now it's a game. I was going to say we all asked, like, where do you go after Ariana Grande, after Kim Kardashian? Yeah, no, I get all that.

But now it just seems fake what what seems fake what do you mean what seems fake the relationship do you think when you say it's fake do you assign that press it's just a press opportunity well do you think and who do you think is more like the driving force behind that like do you think it's more of pete david okay so like mutually beneficial hmm it's it's hard to question its authenticity maybe it is i don't know but like it's it's so obvious that it's i it is i don't know but like it's it's so obvious that it's i feel like everyone questioned him and kim for the same reasons though a lot of people still think that was a press situation sure yeah now i think now will you be converted

just the way everyone else was for kim but i wasn't converted well i'm i'm retroactively now questioning the authenticity of that relationship. Interesting. No? I feel like he's just... Have you ever, you've never been like, more and more things happen, and that doesn't make you rethink how you thought something in the past? Sure. But I don't feel this way about Pete. I think the reason that I'm not like definitive, like definitive press stunt is because Amrata had that TikTok she posted a little while ago where she was like,

when he thinks he's so great for pulling you, but you just like ugly guys. And this is not in any way to imply that Pete Davidson is ugly because he's clearly super hot, but he doesn't have that like sort of like model jawline. Yeah, like he's not like a pretty boy hot. His hotness is derived from. He's like skater boy hot. Other things. No, it's not. It's not that I doubt that they could be into each other. And I guess it could turn into something.

I guess I'm just saying it's just like, oh, yeah. I feel like they're both motivated by things other than like, hey, I just happened to want to date you. I mean, again, she's obviously beautiful and successful and who wouldn't want to say yes to emrata and and clearly a lot of women are you know interested in dating pete davidson but at what like at what point is he like let's okay let's just play this out let's they become boyfriend and girlfriend and six months from now they break up again like at what point is is it does this ever become a just like a running joke if it's not already like is he gonna make it work i'm all for like dating and i'm not trying again i don't judge

people having a lot of exes you know shooting a shot but like maybe just date someone who isn't the next greatest big females not the next but like maybe date someone who's not like an A-list single woman coming out of a relationship. Because that's also another thing. All these people seem to be exiting relationships and he seems to be rebound guy. Yeah, it's like we're going to see him with Giselle next. It's going to be like, what? But maybe they're just happy living their best lives. Maybe he doesn't want any like super super huge commitment maybe he doesn't want

to get married that's also fine too he's just having fun i would also be very curious about like what their meat what their meat cute was like or like you know like how it came to fruition i guess that's what i'm saying it's just like it's hard for me this is a public relationship and we all like to like root for, I guess, or not root for, but like it just, it seems, you know, the, how did you meet and blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, it just seems more like, oh, hey, Amrata, like you just, you know, you broke up with someone like Pete's available. You should, I guess the playbook says date Pete, you know, because you're going to get

a lot of attention. The press is going to go make a big deal about it. And granted, like she, you know, she got attention from dating, I guess, I don't know. There were some rumors about her and Brad Pitt, but it's just like, there was no. What if Amrata slid into Pete's DMs? Because similar to Kim, she heard about that BDE. She wasn't looking for commitment. I think that's why a lot of these people seek pete out maybe it's not even pete's mo maybe these women seek pete out because they know he doesn't want the full commitment maybe so and they're so done with the commitment they just want to be maybe this is what i'm trying to say i know we're talking about it obviously we we did a pickup for obviously because

people aren't gonna be interested but like i no longer give a shit about pete davidson yes well no his his romantic life like when he met ariana grande it was like oh damn like yeah i'm i'm invested you know like i'm curious my fascination has declined to like oh okay this is just it's just a thing you know it's kind of fun it's like a little whack-a-mole where is he gonna show up next sure yeah but it's like it's like, I see, like, I'm not like, oh, I'm so into this relationship. You know, like, oh, like, I want to hear all their story. It just seems like, oh, well, duh.

It's a bit comical now. It does seem like he gets genuinely into it. You know, like, he, like, proposed to Ariana. He got the tattoo for Kim. So I think he could still... No, not still. I mean, if he, like he like i mean it's all fun and games and we're all being entertained by it but like i don't know i guess i don't know

like what are we rooting for if we're if we're if we're following this relationship like uh relationship goal like is this is this relationship goals i guess it's like it seems like the thing that is appealing about him is that he's like a great hang. Like, I think he's a really sparky person, like in terms of like the Logan Urie, like spark all that theory. Like, I think he's someone who very much like he's, I bet he's super charismatic. I bet he's super genuine. I think he can like talk to people in a way that's probably like really like a breath of fresh air to people who are surrounded by teams and industry people all the time.

Like, I'm sure he just comes off as incredibly authentic. surrounded by teams and industry people all the time. Like I'm sure he just comes off as incredibly authentic. And I think because of that kind of like boy next door kind of charm, I guess it to me that translates into how I view the breakups too, where I'm just like, oh, they tried and they don't see each other enough. It's just that he's only dating these A-list and it's not like, again, it's not accidental. He's not randomly like bumping into these people. And I know they like roam in a league circle and these circles are small, but I guess all I'm saying, and now it's more of an eye roll at this point, and I definitely could not be less invested in the outcome of whatever this is than, say, his other previous relationships.

I was like, oh, maybe there's something here. Maybe this is the match. Now it seems a bit contrived. Do we know that Pete and Emron are dating or were they just seen together on a date? maybe there's something here. Maybe this is the match. Now it seems a bit contrived. That's all. Do we know that Pete and Emmerett are dating or were they just seen together on a date?

Someone submitted it as like an anonymous tip. They're on a date together in Brooklyn holding hands and all his hands were all over her and they've clearly,

clearly hooked up. That's what this anonymous source said. I mean, I think it was a Dumois post. Nothing else. Just another feather in his cap, you know, like. Truly. I think what it is, is that I view because I'm like, oh my God, these women are powerful

and like stunningly gorgeous. I inherently am like, oh, they have the power in this relationship. Like he's kind of like they're going along, like happy to be there, trying to treat them like queens. And so I think maybe that's why I like him is because I'm like, yeah, he like, he seeks out women who are like run the ship and he's like, aye, aye captain. And I love that man. We have a great episode for you. The one, the only, and very funny. Jason Nash is with us.

I've gotten to know Jason a little bit over the past couple of months. I really enjoy him as a human being and as a person and as a guest. We also have Kenika Batra who zoomed in. She is on TikTok as a self-proclaimed diagnosed sociopath, which she has educated us is not, sociopath is not in the DSM. It's not a technical term, but she explains why she uses that term.

I saw on TikTok, I was just kind of fascinated by what this all means. She has some interesting things to say, certainly around like empathy and how people should date. I didn't, you know, you know, we're just, we're going to play the episode and we'll let you think however you think. But it was certainly interesting. Your brain will be stimulated when you're listening to this conversation. And then we have some chats about more Selena Gomez chatter. Touch on some masterminding.

Masterminding, yeah. Is manipulation ever allowed in a relationship of any kind, even if it gets you to be in love? We'll find out. Interesting. Yes. Yes. The answer is yes. Don't forget to send in your questions at askn We'll find out. Interesting. Yes. Yes. The answer is yes.

Don't forget to send in your questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast for the K. Looking for some holiday Ask Nick stories. Also, we're still hoping to get people in a situationship to call in together and talk about the situationship. What are other things you're looking for?

Okay. Have you had like a date from hell just a date where it went real bad like stuff hit the fan it was no it was you know not just your general emotionally exhausting dating badness but like some really notable shitty shit happened on a date i one time heard about a date where the girl took like 10 or 11 shots like within a few hour period, ended up puking in the guy's lap as he drove her home. Stuff like that. Yeah.

So it doesn't have to be necessarily current. We just want to hear it. We're not sure we're going to do it yet, but we want to hear your stories. We want to know. Also, if you had like really ugly breakups, we'd love to hear those stories. And if you have some men friends out there who may not listen to the show, but also have some good stories, encourage them to write in and be all anonymous as well it's all anonymous finally if you are in a relationship that you need to end if you know that a breakup is imminent but you are not sure how to do it

give us a call we're gonna help you break up uh help you break things off we'll call them for if you want yeah we'll do it we'll we'll do it We'll send a telegram. Nick will show up at their door. Well, I don't know about that. Well, we'll call them. Yeah. We'll help you break up. Or we'll just decide whether you should break up or not. Maybe you don't know.

Stay or go. Should I stay or should I go? We don't know. That's a song. It's also a chapter in the book, which is still available at vilefiles.com. Don't text your ex.

Happy birthday. Check it out. All right, let's get to Jason. Jason. Nick and the let's get to Jason. Jason. Nick and the raw dog in the morning, 106.5 FM. We're getting crazy here on Nick Viall's podcast. How are you, Jason? Good, man, how are you?

I'm great, man, it's good to be with you. Everything good? It's great. Listen, I wanna start off right now and just say, as the two sexiest men in the world, you and I, I think we should squash the beef and just be friends. Just be friends? Yeah, I really think so, you know.

The plight of two hot men. Yeah, and if you would be so kind, I'd love to bounce a quarter off your abs right now, if that's okay. I don't know if my abs, they're not in peak ab condition. They're not? I don't think so. I hired a trainer for the first time ever oh really yeah wait so you this the way you look is just like you like like i guess you do you probably you did track in high school i know that about college too in college

so that that keeps you fit right well yeah and to that end like i learned enough while doing that that i could you know work out on my own. Yeah. You know, like I knew kind of the basics and I was athletic enough that the basics got me far enough. And I was athletic enough to like push myself. But I'm now at the point of my life where like, not only am I, I hired a trainer to like give me some specific workouts. Can I need to start working out some other muscle groups and stretching more and things like that.

But also it's just the motivation. Because now when I'm working out on my own, I just get tired. I'm like, fuck it. I'm done. Yeah? And now it's like that kind of one more. I'm a lot more tired working out with a trainer

than when I'm working out by myself. I'm going the other way. I'm worried I'm going to get overweight again. So I wake up every day like, oh, I got to run. I'm going the other way. I'm like, I'm worried I'm going to get overweight again. So I'm like, I wake up every day like, oh, I got to run. I got to do something. Are you pretty active?

Yeah, I've been really active lately. You look great. Thanks. I've been trying. Since 2019, I lost like 50 pounds. Wow. Yeah.

So it's been a struggle. I love food. I love food too. Yeah, it's really bad. I don't drink and I don't do drugs, but I love chicken parmesan. Do you feel like you've gotten to this point in your life in a healthy way?

Yeah, I think it's pretty healthy. I'm pretty good with it. I just was like, all right, I've eaten enough. You know what I mean? Sure. I've tasted everything. I need to stop and get it under control. Food's great.

Yeah, it really is. But it's not great when you can't walk upstairs. You'll be a struggle. That's really hard. Yeah. Especially, I'm older than you, so everything goes wrong. You'll see. I've heard.

How's the trainer? Is he brutal? She, he? He's nice, lovely. He has a track background as well. Okay. From Jamaica. Has he got you out the track track not yet okay no can you can you still can you smoke him no you can't i well i think he

was better than i was oh for one and then he's also just in better shape and he's younger uh-huh i think it would be embarrassing well that'll be good for you, that you have somebody that's ahead of you. I think so. Yeah, because that's how I got in shape. I work out with younger people who are, you know. Well, I was at a party. I think it was a similar party.

It was at a party we were at together where I challenged my friend to a race. Yeah. Oh, at that party we were at? Yeah. The other night, right? Sure. You challenged your friend to a race? We standing there and i looked at him and he used to be a division one quarterback

and and i just said do you think he could beat me in a race right and he said yeah and he did you did it then and there no no we did outside my street although he cheated and i had a bad hamstring but he did. So he beat you. Yeah. It's really funny. I took a photo with you at that party and I put it on my Snapchat, you know, like, because I think you're great.

And then it was just a response. This girl, she goes, oh my God, Jason, who is that guy? He's the most handsome man. And I was like, it's the fucking bachelor. Like, yes. Also, Snapchat story. Like, he said I was handsome? Yes. Also, wait, Snapchat story. Are you still an active Snapchat user?

Yeah. You are. Yeah, I started using Snapchat this year. Wow. A late adopter. Should I be using Snapchat more? My sister is one of the people who follows you on Snapchat, just so you know. She's one of the OGs, yeah. Snapchat's nice if you, like, have, like like a busy day and you don't have time to edit

and you're just like i'm here so it's cool for people to see me like they see me working out and then they see me out here at the podcast are you wanna are you wanna be real yeah no no i'm not but are you be reeling it on TikTok? Which is like, they have a B-reel. TikTok now. Yeah, I get asked to do a lot of B-reels. We went to David's pizza opening the other day, and every kid wanted a B-reel. Every single person.

And I was like, ugh. Because, you know, you got to sit there, and you got to take your photo, and it counts down, and then it takes them. It takes another one. Yeah, yeah. But people really like it.

Natalie's on it. Yeah. I mean, I don't see the point of it but i haven't quite adapted it do you guys see the point of be real no yeah i do you do yeah so i think it's like well i think when people actually use it like very authentically and when you're following like your close friends it is nice to just like see what someone is up to in a very uncurated way but like the one time i did the be real alarm went off and I was like, okay, let me do it. Cause I have the app,

but I don't use it. And I was in the bank and then it was like a picture of me at the bank. And then like, you know, I bank of America. I did a tick tock now on Saturday of me, like trying to get my hot tub heater to work. And I was just like,

I'm trying to get my hot tub heater to work. The reason I just like, I'm trying to get my hot tub heater to work. The reason I like that though, is because I think with the friends that I miss, it's like, I miss being a part of their everyday life. Like just like the silly little day to day things, like going to the bake and having the hot tub heater not working. So I think it has to be people you're genuinely invested in and like enough

that you care about the minutia. Yeah. I don't want to see what my friends are up to. I was genuinely care about anyone. Kidding. No, I'd like want to see what my friends are up to. I was part of one one time. Kidding. No, I'd like to see them in person, but I could care less what they're doing. Jason's taking a dump. Great.

Shit only, be real. My dream. Thank God. Be stooled. Is it like an app that people monetize on there? Do people get paid to make it? That's the question, though. Every time they do a Be Real, it's a nude. So what's new, Jason?

Nothing. Just making videos, making podcasts. We're doing another roast. We're roasting our friend Zane Hijazi on the 17th of December. So we're writing that. And yeah, that's it. We had you on. We had Danny DeVito on.

That was cool. You had Danny DeVito on. Yep. That was crazy. And we had, who else was on? Dane Cook was on. He was good. He was great.

Yeah, so we've just been doing that. How'd you get Danny DeVito on? I don't know. It was really weird. It was just like a guy that I know used to represent him. And he was like, Danny DeVito has a new show on FX and they want to promote it and they want to do it. Uh, they want to promote the season finale. So they need to do it tomorrow and they need it out by Thursday. And so I was like, yeah, I'm not doing anything else. Yeah, of course. That's good. Yeah. It was, it was cool. It's interesting when you like, I've never talked to someone that's that famous before. It's interesting when you, like, I've never talked to someone that famous before. Yeah.

He's. He's on another level. He's on another, yes. You know, he's somebody that was like. He's an icon. Yeah. Like he, he got famous on Taxi. I don't know if you remember that show. I do remember it.

And, and then. Throw Mama off the train. Like overnight, he's just like this, he was a theater actor or whatever. And now he's just like this star. And then from Taxi, it's like, you know, all the, all the movies in the eighties that he did and he directed. So it's, uh, it's just cool. Yeah. You'res that he did that he directed. So it's just cool. You're like, damn, what am I doing with my life?

Yeah. You know? Why can't you get Danny DeVito? Yeah. I'm jealous. I'm sure he'll come in. He probably will. I can give you his contact.

Really? Hell yeah. Nice. How's family life? You got some kids? I got some kids, 16, 13. What's being a dad like i mean for you if i if i'm being honest it's truly the best it's it's the best thing you'll ever do yeah like it's the best there's no there's no point in any kind of there's nothing that compares

to it honestly just to be able to like you have someone that's a baby and now they're like a full human and um and it's just it's just so cool it's like my son is like 16 my daughter's 13 and now they're starting to just like they've got the most insane lives like my daughter she should be like i gotta go to agora hills and i'm like i can't what like i i don't know anyone in agora hills you know what i mean? So she has friends everywhere and I think that's maybe like with Snapchat and stuff like that, like kids now, they just know each other everywhere and when I grew

up, like I didn't leave my town for like five years, you know? So that's really interesting. How do you go about, do they live with their mother or you or how do you guys co-parent? I live like three minutes away from them so they just like go back and forth and then you know when my son has had enough over there he comes to me and it's it's really good i i'm really lucky my ex-wife's the best as someone who actually understands the internet like i feel like

a lot of parents were like trying to figure out how to parent with the internet without having like a full understanding so as someone who like really knows ins and outs like all the sides of it like what's your approach to parenting with reference to the internet oh i don't have an approach on it my kids aren't they're not really my son doesn't do it he doesn't he's not on the internet he's into like music and stuff really he's not like on the apps no i feel like you won like the the kid lottery because i feel like that's a challenge for so many parents these days yeah no he he's he's insane he he like listens to like uh old jazz music and stuff he's he's crazy and then she's on uh she had a tiktok account and she um she just

quit it she didn't like it and i think some of the comments were really bad i think that was why uh and uh so she's like i'm not doing this and i was like okay great so they're not really that into it but yeah i don't know for i don't have any advice is my answer good luck because it does seem hard yeah i don't know you're gonna have kids i hope to yeah yeah you should it's it's uh it's the best how's your love life it's good it's good i got a new girlfriend she's great how long you guys been dating for i don't know like three four months okay yeah what's your favorite thing about this relationship or how does it compare to other ones uh she's just like uh

she's just really cool and just like just cool with everything and there's no like i'm mad at you for this or it's really interesting but it's funny because it's like you know you're like really in love with this person right away and then you're like oh like wait a minute what's this gonna go away or is it gonna get better so it's uh yeah but she's on she's unreal do you feel like you're still in the honeymoon phase I I do I do and that's what's scary about him like is this this is gonna go yeah is this gonna go away or what or it's that's that's what's scary about it. I'm like, is this going to go, yeah, is this going to go away or what?

Or it's, that's, it's tough. And how many serious relationships did you have before this? Let's see, one, two, three. Three before this, yeah. Three, one marriage. One marriage. Yeah, which she was, she's great.

I was in love with her for a long time. How'd you guys meet? Met on a dating app. Nice. Yeah, but I didn't talk to her for like two years and uh she moved away and then one day she this year she moved back and she was like i'm back in town and i was like oh so it was um yeah did you go on dates and then just didn't talk for two years or you saved each other as a match for two years no we like went on some dates and then

so you had exchanged phone numbers yeah we went on some dates and then she moved ah yeah and then i i would think about her for every day for two years. And I even texted her. She wouldn't text me back. And I was like, okay, she's not interested. And then, I don't know, one day, this year has been a strange year. It's been like a crazy year of new podcast, new relationship, kids getting older, you know.

So I don't know man what what what excites you the most about your future my future yeah just retiring retiring yeah just doing nothing doing nothing yeah i wish i could do less you know you don't but i feel like you love what you do i do i i love it but it also it's it's you know it's like when you, when you create content and stuff, it's just that there's no end to it. Yeah. Like today there's like an animal guy coming to my house to bring like an iguana and it's like, it's fun, but. You get to do taxing? Yeah. Like I'd like to just go and hang out.

And because you got your start like just being a comedian. Yeah. hang out and because you got your start like just being a comedian yeah just being a comedian and then how did you like how did you like slide into this more content creating well i was i was like completely broke and i was doing stand-up at the improv and david dobrik was in the audience and that was it and i it was again you know like getting lucky breaks in life, it's like I'd gone like 20 years with no lucky breaks. And then I walked off stage and he walked up to me and he was like, oh, hey, can you, he had a hat on and he had his camera. And he's a kid, you know, he's like, I think he was like 20. And he was like, oh, hey, can you, can you come do that bit tomorrow at my house?

And I was like, yeah, I was like, oh yeah, of course. I knew who he was. And so I went and did it. And I was like, I'll never. Because when you do Instagram video and Vine or TikTok or whatever, you maybe see somebody once and then you never see them again.

They have one idea and that's it. And then I just really got along with them and we hung out for the next five years. I'm still really good friends with them. We had a podcast for a while that was really good, really fun called views. And, uh,

yeah, he's, he's the best. He's like truly, he saved my life. That kid. Yeah. And why do you say that?

Um, just cause where I was at the time, like I was, I owed like $60,000 in taxes. I had just gotten divorced. I was like nowhere. And I remember he would, he was like $60,000 in taxes. I had just gotten divorced. I was like nowhere. And I remember he kept calling me. He'd be like, you got to come out.

Come help me do this. And I was like, okay, okay. So I would just go and help him just because I liked him. And then he was just like, why don't you just stay with me every day and do this? And I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to make any money. And he was like, well, you start a channel. And I was like, oh, no, man, I can't start a channel. I was, I think I was like 43 at the time.

I was like, I can't be 43 on starting a YouTube channel. And that's David. David doesn't, he's just like crazy uh he's not crazy but he does he just goes for whatever and uh and he was like you you can do it you can do it and he's like uh he's like how much do you need to make a month and i was like i need to make like i don't know like five thousand dollars a month you know like to get by and he was like oh he's like you he's like you can do that you can do that and i was like okay and and then yeah and then uh so that was just incredibly lucky to to be like in that in the improv on that night when he was there and so it's like really

so it's something as someone who like we have some similar larities in the sense that different ages or whatever but you know i had a life. And then, you know, in my early 30s, I did a drastic change. And you're someone who, you know, also like had a pretty significant pivot, you know, and kind of a middle age. to you now right because i feel like there's like two ways to like interpret that right do you often say recognizing how lucky you got in the uniqueness of your situation yeah are you more like hey man like i don't know like stay keep doing what you're doing or are you someone who's always do you like be an example of it's never too late to follow your dreams it's never too late to start over or are you a little bit more pragmatic knowing how like fortuitous your situation was and how much you struggled prior to this fortuitous situation? Like if someone came up to you in the street and said, hey, Jason, like I'm thinking about making this switch and I'm like, you know, 37 years old and blah, blah,

what would you say to that person? Like how would you approach it? I would say, I definitely would say go for it. You know, if you were like 37 and you wanted to be a content creator, like definitely go for it, but like, you know, have something to back it up, you know, like be, be really, really committed to it. Cause the only thing I can say is, uh, for anybody that's like struggling in life, I was, I was trying all those years. I had lots of sketches already written, and I had experience. I took improv class. I took acting class.

So it just took me a really long time. But when it came, I was useful, you know? And I was of use to David's videos, and then I was able to do my own videos because I had some experience, and I had some idea of how things should go. But yeah, I always say go for it. Like why you only live once.

And if you have kids, it's a little difficult because you have to support the kids. But in some ways, I think too, like having my kids was the best thing for me. Because at that time, I was like, I needed something steady and solid you know so when I started YouTube I stopped everything else I stopped stand-up I stopped trying to I made a couple movies I stopped trying to make movies so I will say like stay focused on one thing I think that's best so Jason I wanted to I've been following like following, but I've seen this very interesting person on TikTok who starts every TikTok by saying she's a diagnosed sociopath. Hell yeah.

I don't know what that means. It's fascinating. Yeah. And I think she like lives in Europe or something. And so you were coming on and I thought it would be fun for us to like ask her some questions on what it's like to be a diagnosed sociopath. So be down to have us interview her. Great idea.

Let's just talk to her. I love this. Let's see where it goes. I love this. Great. Let's bring her in. Well, Kanika, this is my friend Jason. Hi, Kanika. And we have Allie and Amanda in the room as well. Hi. And we're excited to talk to you. I've found you on TikTok. You've been showing up on my For You page. I'm sure you've gotten this a lot, so many questions. You start most of your videos with, I'm a diagnosed sociopath. Am I getting that right? That's correct. Okay. First of all, what does that mean? Because I feel like there, well, I guess even for me, there's a lot of ignorance around what that means. I think there's just a lot of opinions and

thoughts on the topic, but not a lot of information. So I'm really just kind of fascinated by all this. And how did you first find out that you were diagnosed? And then what, I guess, what does it even mean just to start with? So to start with, um, sociopathy actually is not a medical term. I use it as a, I use it as a buzzword because nobody knows what the actual medical term means. The medical term itself is antisocial personality disorder. And it is characterized by a lack of remorse, a lack of guilt, and a lack of empathy. It also covers psychopathy informally. So basically, it's an umbrella term. And within it, you've got the sociopath you've got the psychopath there's a lot of contention as to what was made and what was born and there are checklists you know that

psychiatrists go through in diagnosing you as such and in terms of antisocial personality you can only qualify if you do have a background of childhood juvenile delinquency and also callous and unemotional affect in your earliest years. Interesting. So what is your opinion on this? How did you feel? Do you feel it was more, is it like nature versus nurture type of argument? Like I said, were you born with this type of diagnosis? Do you feel like, or do you feel like something happened in your childhood? I feel like it was a combination of both. I do believe there is a strong sense of ASPD on my parents, on my dad's side, if I'm being

completely honest. I hope they're not watching. If they are, you know, they have to deal with it. What's ASPCD? Yeah, what is ASPCD? Yes, antisocial personality disorder. That is what is, you know, commonly referred to Yes, antisocial personality disorder. That is what is commonly referred to as a sociopath or a psychopath.

Gotcha. So did your dad act a certain way that might have created this in you? Well, not my dad to me particularly. It's more his side of the family. But when I was growing up, I was often punished for having emotions. So if I was crying, I would be sent to my room essentially and I would be told that I wouldn't be able to speak to my parents until I could speak normally, a.k.a. without emotion. So I learned pretty early on not to cry and not to use certain emotive language and

expressions if I wanted to be taken seriously. Do you ever cry now? Oh yeah. I cry all the time. I can cry on cue if you want. But yeah, no, I am able to cry i feel the same range of human emotions as most people it's just not to the same extent and definitely not as deep okay interesting so i think i feel like you and you mentioned this like a lack of empathy it seems to be like the like the main kind of disconnect in terms of feelings like Like, are you truly incapable of feeling empathy for people? Or do you have to fake it? And like, I guess, what does it mean to not have any empathy whatsoever? Because you seem very self-aware and you seem like you totally understand what empathy is. And I think like on some of your videos, you seem to reference like your ability to

fake it if you need to. So are you able to explain what it means, the difference between like understanding it? And because like, for me, like when I've learned about empathy, it's like, Hey, you know, you should like give a shit about other people in yourself. And then like, if you're in the moment and be like, Hey man, like how was your day? You know, I'm really sorry you had to deal with that. So like, what's the difference between just like knowing that you should do it and like ask people questions and not be kind of self-absorbed, which I think we all have become in our society versus your like lack of ability to feel it. Like how do you make that distinction? So what people seem to get confused is making empathy inherently positive thing.

Empathy is simply being able to feel what somebody else is feeling. That's not a positive or a negative thing. That's a very neutral fact. Now, what people confuse it with is being kind and caring and showing compassion. Now, these are things I am capable of. In terms of empathy itself, yes, I do feel cognitive empathy. That's why I can understand what people are going through. I can understand why you feel shit. I can understand why someone is sad when their mother dies. I mean, I'm not that far gone, but I don't have affective empathy. So I will never feel what you feel. Even if I understand it to the best of my knowledge, if I understand it, I still will not feel it unless I have absolutely gone through the same thing myself.

Interesting. And about helping other people. This is not inherently based on empathy because there are a lot of people who are dark empaths and there are empaths who specifically show their empathy to only certain people they reserve this selective empathy and decide who gets it and who is not worthy of it so it they can be just as cruel if not worse than having no empathy at all sure what is your ability to have like interpersonal relationships? And I guess specifically romantically, do you date or are you in a relationship? What is that like for you? Yes. So I date, I am in a relationship. I am bisexual. So I've dated women,

I've dated men. I generally tend to lean towards dating women, but currently am with a man. I have very specific ways that I go about dating because I don't want to waste my time and I don't want to waste other people's time. So when I go into a situation, I know exactly what I want from a person and I know exactly what they want from me because I would say that I don't internally have a personality. I have something that can reflect off anybody. So I could go into, say, a room full of conservatives and become, you know, a very loved member of their society. Or I could go into the Democratic Convention and fit right in. So I can reflect whatever this person wants me to reflect, but I know what I want and I want stability.

I want someone who can actually take care of me emotionally, someone who can put up with my spontaneity and my impulses. So I tend to go in and of course, the first step is always love bombing. And this isn't necessarily intentional because it's just because I do get excited because meeting new people is, it's a way to pique my interest because my emotions in general are just incredibly flat. So I go into dates. I know what I want. I know what they want.

And then I evaluate. How do you bring up the fact that you have this condition on your dates? We talk about dating a lot on this show and we get a lot of questions like, when do I bring up I have kids? Or when do I bring up that I had this, you know, people refer to as baggage. Obviously, with a personality disorder, does that weigh heavy on you? Or do you not feel anything about it? When do you bring it up pretty early, and how have people responded to that? So people don't actually believe me when I tell them I have ASPD. They don't believe that I'm a sociopath, which is really funny. I mean, they believe it once I

discard them, but before that they don't. But I don't feel it's anybody's really business until I am going into a proper serious relationship. I mean, if I'm going on four dates with a guy and I know in my head that I'm not taking this any further I have no need to tell him what like my diagnoses are I wouldn't go in about like major depressive disorder and you know about all of the things that I have to go through it's just stuff that I'm not really that invested in. So unless someone shows a lot of value to me and shows that I would want them in my life, I just show them what they want to see. They don't know anything about who they're

actually with, really. I'm curious when you say like discard people is that language that feels authentic to you like in the moment when you're kind of like moving on does it feel like it's just appropriate and you know this chapter is closed or is that kind of more of a reflection on the way other people have reacted to that behavior and like having an awareness that there's something about that that can be upsetting to people or that's like not typical of social norms so what I believe is that for me it's very natural right it's I'm I'm done with someone it's over like I don't care anymore so like they're gone they're out of my life then I often get texts from them saying oh you've just discarded me like I'm trash so that's kind of where that comes from and also like I am self-aware I've read into how a lot of our relationships work and I've seen the cycle of you know love bomb, devalue, discard.

That's kind of what all of us do without meaning to sometimes. Sometimes we mean to, but obviously that's not something that I would willingly continue to do because it's not satisfying for me and it's obviously not satisfying for a number of people. So that's kind of where that came from. How do you hold yourself accountable as a member of society, I suppose, because you're talking about, you know, not until I discard people. And like, again, you have this incredible self-awareness about it. And as you mentioned before, you understand, you know, like, hey, I understand discarding someone or making them feel devalued is is wrong so how do

you make a determination whether you quote unquote do the right thing or just not do it based off of the fact that you're like i don't really see the need to because i have this condition like we're how do you decide whether you're going to overcome it or not or just not give a shit because yeah like go off of your instinct versus go off of like learned learned behavior yeah oh absolutely i'm not going to blame my terrible behavior on a personality disorder that's bullshit anyone who says that i do this just because i'm a sociopath is lying. What I plan to do is I always find myself being a lot kinder to women because I feel like women have a lot more that they're going through. So I'm very, very unlikely to discard per se a woman that I'm dating. I will go, I will take her out to a nice dinner. You know,

I will tell her politely, like, look, I just don't think this is working out. I think we should probably see other people. And then I'll end that chapter. I try to be a good person. I try, even though it goes against everything that I want in the moment, I will go and do that. I will go and fulfill my societal obligations. When it comes to men, especially, you know, I don't know if I can swear on here. Yeah, I can swear. Yeah, I can swear. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So fuck boys. Like I don't give a shit about them. Like they don't give a shit about women. I don't give a shit about them. Do you feel like some of that you mentioned, you know, a lot of this comes from childhood and things you learned there and turning off those emotions. Was there

anything different, like in terms of your parents that would result in you being more harsh towards men than women? Absolutely. I mean, my mom, my mom is a very emotional person. She kind of, I mean, I'm not just, I'm not trying to say that my dad was terrible. He was, I love my dad. He's a wonderful, wonderful person and had such a special bond with him. But my mother, she, she's the emotional one. She's the one who kind of would let me express myself, who I would show vulnerability to. But vulnerability was not something I would show to a man, essentially. Ability was not something I would show to a man Essentially Interesting

So is it Something that you are Working at or is it something that's just Who you are and that's it Well I've been in therapy in and out I honestly Am not that consistent with it because Therapy gets pretty boring especially

When you're just hearing the same thing over and over again And one thing is that People with ASPD often get worse with therapy because they get better at lying. And so I don't necessarily see it as something that is going to be super beneficial for me. I still do it because I'm trying to be a good person. I'm trying to not hurt people if I don't have to. I think it's great that you're so forward with it. Why are you so forward with it? Is this something that you want to get out there? I'm going to be honest. On my YouTube, it's all about healing, right? I always talk about choosing to be a better person on my tiktok i've released a more savage side of myself because i feel like women at the moment are so

weak and i just i'm sick of it i'm sick of seeing on the media that women should be submissive women should be you know trained like dogs like I want these women to realize that their empathy is the reason of our downfall they are literally empathizing with men who want to see our like see us back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and so I'm not going to sit here and let empathetic women ruin my place in society and so I want ladies to know that only sociopathic terms will work in the current dating world. And I figured the best way to do this is TikTok because where else can you start being, you know, loud and obnoxious?

Are you saying, did you just say that being a sociopath is the only thing that will work in the dating world? Is that you said yes for women i believe having sociopathic tendencies is the best way to move forward in the dating world but isn't that the same uh approach as the men that you hate take in some ways it's the other side of that so you have a you have uh people that say horrible things about women like women should be barefoot and pregnant. But isn't what you're saying also kind of wrong too? So it's like two wrongs? Absolutely not.

And what I am trying to do, being sociopathic does not mean being abusive. It means not showing empathy. So it means not being kind to the guy who texts you at 2 a.m. and then tells you that you're ugly and you're not the type of girl anyone would want for a relationship. That's what I'm trying to tell them. That kindness to people who are exploiting you is useless. Why would you want to put yourself in that position? I am telling women how to protect themselves from being manipulated.

Well, we love that part. I mean, we talk a lot about boundaries and expectations on this show. And, you know, regardless of your gender in terms of, and I love what you're saying about that, because yeah, we should set our boundaries for their self. What do we want? And if people don't want to respect that if people don't want to uh respect our boundaries or meet our expectations regardless of you know what they say to you uh yes i think people should enforce those more so not feel bad about you know i guess what am i trying to say yeah i get i get what you're saying in terms of the like a lack of a lack of empathy or having too much empathy. I think it's the shift between innocent until proven guilty. Whereas I think maybe, tell me if this feels accurate, but I think maybe part of what you're saying is that we treat women, treat men in the dating world as innocent until proven guilty when they should really be treated as guilty until proven innocent.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Why should I treat them in kindness? They do need to prove that they're worthy of my time, of my kindness and of my compassion. And I think empathic women are our downfall at the moment because they are the ones who are letting this work. I have seen this in person. So it's just empathic women are just the reason of our downfall at the moment. Interesting. So if you're in a relationship with someone, do you feel like you can be trusted with your personality disorder? Yeah, absolutely.

You can. Absolutely. I am very honest with my partner. Okay. I communicate with him about how I feel about things. I am not someone who can lie to him. I am not someone who, while I can do these things to other people, he's been a part of my life for three and a half years. and I understand the value he brings to me and he understands the values that I bring to him. Now I am not going to go and you know lie to my partner and I have immense loyalty to those who are loyal to me so no matter what he does I will support him because he has always supported me. He has nothing to

doubt when it comes to me because I've even shown him notes from my therapist that are obviously meant to be confidential. I have nothing to hide from my partner. Are there any examples of, I guess, hypocrisy or things that are behaviors or practices that people might call out within you or anyone with ASPD as wrong that you see existing in society all the time without being like put under that same kind of scrutiny? Absolutely. I mean, we see, well, I think this is more specific to ASPD and women because women are very unlikely to be diagnosed with ASPD. Usually they get diagnosed with BPD or histrionic personality disorder. And so there's a standard of where we need to be.

Until we are completely submissive, we are seen as a problem to treat. And we have this double standard of having to meet this criteria that is such bullshit and it makes no sense. And the idea that we are liars and that we are bad because we don't have empathy and we are horrible because we don't feel built is also ridiculous to me because a lot of empaths have very selective empathy. We have cold and calculated rage. They have very temperamental and often very, very hypocritical rage. And nobody gives empaths shit for that.

How many people have this type of personality disorder that you think is undiagnosed? Because you know what I'm saying? It just seems like, to your point, it seems like a very triggering diagnosis to people but yet you are clearly a capable and like productive member of society it seems like you know like you have your opinion you have your opinions and obviously you have your uniqueness about you but like i think we hear sociopath and it's just like how are you not locked up i feel like a lot of people would say that right you're just like oh

my god like she's walking around the streets like villain yeah oh my god like can you get ramirez like out there if we if we were walking down the street you and i were walking down the street and i got hit by a bus and i I was dead, what would you think then? Would you have a feeling about that or no? I would think that's terrible. You would feel that, right? I would know that. You would know it?

So you would know it's a sad situation. You definitely would know it because you would see my guts everywhere for sure. But would you feel it? And I'm not judging you. I'm just asking. No. No. Oh, that's wild.

Unless I know you as a person. Unless I know who you are. I know your family. I know what a loss you'll be. I don't know you from Adam. I think it's really interesting what you said too where you said you go to therapy and it gets worse. Which I could see that. Yeah, it does because it's so much easier to manipulate people. Right. We go to therapy.

I used to lie to my therapist all the time. Really? Yeah. Just to like pass the time because she didn't want to get to it. But honestly, something you guys should try is go out on the street and actually make like eye contact with somebody for the longest amount of time that you can and see how quickly they freak out.

They just break. It's something I enjoy doing. But I have actively taught myself to blink more and to not look so, you know. I'm comfortable with you, though. Wait, what are we trying to do here? I don't know. Fall in love or lock eyes or see who's a sociopath? No, no.

It's an intimidation tactic. It always works. Are you good at intimidating people? Yes. I like to think so. Yes. I don't want to assume. I just feel like she's very powerful.

Yeah. I mean, it's very fascinating. Well, this has been very interesting. Any final thoughts you want to leave us with? Well, this has been very interesting. Any final thoughts you want to leave us with? Well, I'm just saying there are only 1% to 4% of the population is a sociopath or a psychopath. So your boss most likely is not one.

Your neighbor isn't one. Just because someone's a bad person doesn't mean you can just call them a sociopath. It has no relevance. doesn't mean you can just call them a sociopath like it has no relevance um and I believe that sociopaths are capable of being functioning members of the society and I believe that empaths have a lot to learn from us and until we end the stigma and are able to have these dialogues things are only gonna get worse so yeah and I also just wanted to add, I stand by what I say in that in modern dating, women need to be sociopathic. They need to drop the empathy. That's an interesting thought for sure.

I mean, because I do think, if nothing else, we hear the word empathy, and I think most people are trained to have very positive reactions to that word. It's a virtue. Of course. It's literally a neutral subject. Just because my amygdala, perhaps, I haven't done the scan of my brain. But let's say my amygdala doesn't light up at the same time yours does. That doesn't mean that I'm inherently a bad person. So sociopaths aren't inherently bad we have an inclination to do bad things but we can choose not to and if someone is out there blaming their shitty behavior on their personality disorder like

they're just being a shitty person just like you know regular people cheers to that i couldn't agree more about that um well can you get thank you for your time this has been very fascinating i appreciate it thank you for your time have a wonderful afternoon you as well take care bye-bye nice to meet you nice to meet you well that was really interesting yo how do you know that she wasn't fucking playing all of us i don't know she just she told us to our face she was like i can adapt to anything so she just adapted to you and one one you over one me over yeah it's very interesting scary well it's you know that's the thing because you know i i always talk about in my relationships i've always i'm always it's just like a choice i'm like i'll

just choose to trust you you know like i'll right if i'm gonna date someone says like listen here is the thing i'm gonna i'm just gonna trust you i hope i can and i guess we'll find out kind of thing right now it's it's for me that's easier being like well i don't know my last girlfriend cheated on me and i guess i should be skeptical of you but and then here like you said it's like she's just like hi i'm a diagnosed sociopath this is what it means like a, you know, hi. Which I like that. She's honest about it. She's like, yeah. And it's just like, but then you hear her say, well, I could, I could, if I wanted to

lie at you at any moment and you, I'd probably be really good at it. And you probably wouldn't be able to tell. I mean, I guess she won me over in the sense of, it's almost like she's trying to normalize or de-stigmatize that word compared to say, you know, empathy. What did you guys think when she was saying that women need to be more sociopathic? That was, I was,

I was wanting you guys to jump in on that. I, she, I felt too black and white to me. It was like, she wanted everyone over on that side. And I was like, I heard what she was saying a little bit of like,

oh, don't, you know, lower yourself. Don't be this. Like, I guess what was she saying? Like the barefoot in don't you know lower yourself don't be this like i guess what was she saying like the barefoot in the kitchen don't just don't be that that's on another end of the spectrum but to go and like there is something to be said about empathy i think it

makes me a better person i think it's about discernment and empathy and i think she's airing kind of yeah exactly like we were saying where it's like if it's one if it's black and white she's airing on the side of like stop getting fucked over stop giving giving giving and so i think it makes sense that if you see it in those terms like she might land on that and i do but i do think there's ultimately a like solution or a middle ground that is like in the direction of a lot more discernment and not i get it like freely giving empathy i think she doesn't want people to give empathy freely. I think it's less about like not having it entirely and more about like assessing which people in situations deserve it. And like she was commenting on the fact that women are socialized,

I think to view it as like something that everyone's entitled to. Right. She should say, she should say some of these actions that I have would be very beneficial in, in women that are in bad relationships. I think that's what I struggled with. Everyone needs to be a sociopath, which is what was coming out.

She used to go back to the lab. She acknowledged that she's saying things to trigger people. Right. She did. Yeah. Well, that's why she said, she said that's why she chose Tik TOK.

Cause that's the place to, you know, when she, well, she acknowledged that like sociopath, which I didn't know is like not in the DSM, but she uses that word because it's, it's a buzzword. Her, her biggest takeaway of like empathy, I think is an interesting discussion, but ultimately I think that's kind of what we talk about all the time on this show, but

we just frame it around like, you know, setting boundaries and expectations and yeah, not being so like, it's not anyone's job to be so compassionate and empathetic and making excuses for the people just because you say you want to love them or you want to be with them, that we all are entitled to have expectations of how we want to be treated in relationship. And we should communicate those and we should set boundaries with ourselves for how we want to be treated. And, And before we have empathy for any one person, I think they have to meet certain expectations that we have for ourselves and the relationships that we want. I kind of feel like that is what she was saying

in a way, but it'll be interesting because like, and maybe that's, we could have asked her that, but like, where does she draw the line between acknowledging that she's using buzzwords to grab attention versus actually trying to communicate an ideology that she actually wants people to follow? Well, yeah, because if her whole messaging is like, be more decisive, be more you, stop subjecting yourself to being what others want of you. But then she's using buzzwords and marketing tactics to get people to watch her videos. It's interesting. Well, that's why I said she's doing the same thing. Yeah. I don't know. I just... I'm curious what her boyfriend's like. Yes.

I'd love to see that guy. He's probably so normal. Also, even the way she hung up the call being like, thank you so much for having me. This was great. I was like, I imagine her on a dinner date being like, we should do this again sometime. That was great. Does was like, I imagine her like on a dinner date being like, we should do this again sometime. That was great. Does she have to fake excitement? Does she have to fake love?

Oh man, she probably gets excited. I don't know. Should we call her back? No, but she did. Like when she was talking, she was like, there were points where you could tell she was really like passionate about what she was saying. Yeah. I was just trying to figure out because she kept, a lot of times she was talking, I was

like, wait, so you've kind of seemed pretty normal. Yeah. She seemed pretty normal. Yeah, she seemed pretty normal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you don't really know. You don't know if she's trying to get views or... Yeah, maybe she's just adhered to what the energy we were giving her.

Right. I don't know. Thanks for indulging me. Yeah, it was great. It's really interesting. Should we move on to some hot topics? Absolutely. Do we want to start with the Selena situation, the kidney drama?

Did you follow this? No. What happened? Selena Gomez? Yes. Oh, boy. So it kind of started with Selena Gomez making a comment where she said her only friend in the industry was Taylor Swift. Okay.

On a new documentary. Okay. And who's Taylor Swift? I'm just kidding. Go ahead. I was about to fight. So, Selena Gomez's kidney donor and friend, potentially former friend, Francia Reza?

Is that right? Francia Reza commented, interesting. Basically being like, I gave you a kidney and now you're going to say you're only friend. What did she comment? She since deleted it. That's like a Kirby enthusiasm plot. Yeah.

She says there's you ever watch that show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a whole thing where like Richard Lewis needs a kidney. Yeah. That's really funny. Gosh. Interesting.

And it's since it's so it was an e-note news post that posted the clip and then that's where francia commented interesting yes and then she since deleted it but now she doesn't follow us unfollowed she unfollowed it was a rolling stone quote that selena gave to rolling stone saying that taylor was her only friend in the industry and then she just commented interesting but then deleted it off the E. But, you know, rumors were swirling. And there's a few different like conversations topics. Like there's one about like,

what does it mean to give someone a gift? Like when you give someone a kidney, like what are you owed by them? Well, because I heard something. I don't know where I heard it. So maybe it's completely false. So maybe you can let me know. But it seemed to be some, she took exception with Selena's,

I guess, habits, particularly around partying or drinking or indulging in any type of substance, which obviously could be hard on the kidneys. And I don't know what part of that is true, but to that end, if you gave someone a kidney, do you- Relinquish any right of how they use it? Yeah. Or do you have a claim over keeping it pure for the rest of their life? You're like, well, I'm willing to cut my body open and give you my organs. There's a level of, could you treat it right? Like if you bought someone a car and they just started just you know drag racing yeah yeah um i guess there would be some like irritation on my part i mean

i guess i wouldn't be like i guess it's your car i do what you want yeah take it easy another one yeah what happens when you give a kidney how does it affect you how does it affect you if you only have one you're good or you're good with one it does regenerate yeah well but it did say though that like after the surgery like selena gomez recovered a lot faster because her body now had something that she desperately needed versus francia had a much more challenging recovery time because her body was just like losing this operational piece of it so i think that's's also... They had to readjust. Yeah. It's much harder to give one, I believe,

than it is to receive one. For sure, yeah. Who's Francia? Is she an actress? Yeah, she was in... I know her from Secret Life of the American Teenager. Clearly in the industry.

Yeah. Clearly in the industry, yeah. That was the comment that seemed to... Well, you know, listen, you can get a kidney from somebody and then not necessarily

want to hang out with them anymore. That's true. I mean, that's possible. Yeah. Or you just kind of like fall apart a little bit. That person is still very dear to you because they gave you a kidney,

but you may not- Enjoy their company. Yeah, right. They just may have grown apart a little bit. I also wonder if there's a little bit of the like, we don't necessarily know off the tops of our head what she has done versus like with Taylor Swift. Like Taylor Swift is this like iconic,

one of the most famous women in the world and i wonder if part of this is also just like kind of like a fame a-list a hundred percent situation where like in selena's head she's like yeah okay sure like yeah you're my friend but like you're not necessarily like she has a decent imdb i will say that i mean she was in grown-ish if that's how i met your mother if that's selena's logic i guess i wouldn't agree. I would be sensitive to be like, you only named your A-list friends? I'm with Selena on this. You're sitting in there with a Rolling Stone reporter.

You don't want to be there. And they're like, so? And you want to, you know, they're asking you questions. You want to say something that's going to sound good. You go, Taylor Swift's my only friend in the business. But what if she meant, it's a Rolling Stone article. Selena's a singer. Taylor's a singer, what if she meant music?

Specifically music. Like, what if she didn't, what if she was thinking Francia's in acting? I completely empathize, I think, to your point. Like, we're literally nitpicking. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're bad people to even take this apart. Let's end this episode now.

But, you know, it is a fascinating conversation of giving your kidney and what... What do people owe you? What do people owe you, if anything. I'd give you a kidney, Nick. But certainly she's entitled to her feelings being hurt. But I don't know if that makes Selena... I don't know if that means Selena did anything wrong. Does she not have a like, you know, it's just like, hey, you can have my kidney, but you can't.

You can't go to parties. You can't have a beer. You can't have a glass of wine. You can't do this. There's those rules. Also, we have to be friends forever. You have to like me. You have to enjoy my company.

You have to do all these. Any interview, I'm listed as number one friend. I'm number one friend. Please. Yeah. And that's what Selena, you know, in one the few comments selena did make on the situation she was sort of like i'm sorry i didn't list every single person i know was i think kind of her thing of like this is a non-issue you're making this about you which i think is a clear indicator that you feel scorned in some way

or that you're coming at this already feeling maybe underappreciated and looking for a window or like anything can set you off if you're francia because you're like, yeah, I gave her a kidney and she still doesn't appreciate it. I mean, I had one of my favorite classes in college was a philosophy class. And the whole premise of the class, like the entire semester through various topics was, is there any such thing as a selfless act? And we just had all these different topics to discuss to just be like, at the end of the day, is anything truly selfless? And amazing she gave a kidney, but maybe the whole time she's like, I'm about to give Selena Gomez my kidney and I'm in forever. She literally has a piece of me and maybe she just has unreal

expectations of what it means to give someone your kidney. I don't know. I think Taylor Swift's going to write a song about it probably probably yeah yeah i i thought that last night i brought these two people to the party and then we were leaving and i was like i'm gonna ask them if they had a good time because i wanted to hear them tell me for inviting because you invited them yeah you wanted you wanted the crowd so did you guys have fun yeah oh yeah we had a good time. You're welcome. Right. I don't know. I don't think there is anything such. I don't think there is a thing as a completely selfless act. Maybe there's some reflective let Francia needs to do.

I don't know. How do you think she wrote it? Did she write it like interesting, like as a joke? Or do you think it was like interesting, I want my kidney back? Or like maybe like really interesting, I'm going to think about this for a second and get back to you. It could have very well been. So crazy. Thought provoking.

So crazy to me to put it on the E! News post. At that point, forward it to Selena herself and be like, interesting. You know what you're doing when you put it on a public platform. She wants that kidney cred. Well, but speaking of a public platform she wants that kidney cred well but speaking of a public platform chris evans dating alba baptista a portuguese actress this is like

right after hot off the press of him being sexiest man alive and also a few months after his comments about how he's looking for that special someone um do we think that she'll have a big target on her back like do you think the Olivia Wilde treatment? Yeah, that's the question where it's like, because of course, I feel like he's so beloved right now in culture. And so is it in a way where people will be happy that he's happy or like jealous

of her? Those Marvel guys, people in the Marvel movies seem to like kind of skate by without any drama or anything, right? They do. I feel like Harry fans are a different level. What's that? Music fans, I think, are a different level. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Harry fans are in the upper. I mean, those fans are obsessed. I feel like music fans specifically are a different level of intensity than other fans of movie stars. Harry's a movie star too. I don't want to. A man of many talents.

It's just like a movie, movie. Were you in the running for sexiest or what happened? Yeah, I know. Did you get any of the side prizes? Because they have like sexiest men alive. Honorable mention. Yeah, but don't they have a whole thing? Because I remember David was in it.

He got like cutest smile or something. Did he? Yeah. No, I don't. You didn't get anything? There was no consideration. Damn it. I think.

Bullshit, you were robbed. I think if you're ever on The Bachelor, you. You forfeit the right to be on the list. Yeah. What do you guys think? You think Chris Evans, which is Sexiest Man Alive? It's pretty hot. Is Chris Evans your hottest Chris?

Chris Hemsworth. I think, yeah. He's way hotter. Objectively, right? I think so. Who would you rather? Aaron, Chris Hemsworth, or Chris Evans? For what purpose?

I like Chris Wallace from Fox News. He's hot. Isn't he at CNN now? What a pickup. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, probably. Probably Aaron. Who's Aaron?

Your boyfriend? I'm not. Is that your boyfriend? It's a guy in The Bachelor in Paradise. is that your boyfriend the guy in the bachelor in paradise yeah oh really hey listen danica said no fuck boys sorry jesus christ i mean can you protect yourself kanika danica whatever it's like is danica patrick with us she's gonna but in think well i guess this is kind of related to uh there's been a trend on tiktok for a little while now the mastermind trend of taylor's what her recent album midnights one of her song masterminds is kind of

about um facilitating a romantic relationship and kind of making it seem like it was just a meet cute when actually there were a lot of things that she planned in order to set it up and now there's this tiktok trend where people are posting things like ways that they went about making a meet cute or like facilitating. Manipulating their partners and dating them. Yeah. So for example, sure. One example is thinking about how my college situationship was taking way too long to ask me to be his girlfriend. So our mutual friend and I came up with a plan where I put her as a fake contact and she called me while i was with him just so i could answer and say yeah no i'm just with my friend what's up close enough that he would hear it we did and we did it and later that night he

asked me to be his girlfriend and i kid you not he said hearing me answer the phone and say and say that made him realize he just didn't want to be my friend. Worked like a charm. Do we all want to give credit to this person? Yes, this is for Jillian and Ryan. Jillian with a G. Jason, have you ever manipulated someone you loved into giving you what you wanted and you felt that was overall a net positive thing?

No, no, I'm not that smart. I'm not that cunning at all. You don't think you're capable of manipulating? Oh yeah. I'm definitely capable of it, but I've never tried to like manipulate someone into liking me because I would just assume that they wouldn't like me anyway. So it's like, if they're there, you know what I mean? I don't think so. My last girl, my girlfriend that I have now, though I can relate to that, when she says hello, that gets me. Even just hello on the phone. What do you mean?

I don't know, just like I'm so in love with her, she just says hello. It's the way she says hello. Hello, how does she say it? It's like this. Hello? You just love it. I love it, yeah, this is the best.

Do you think there's a a level of because like that almost sounds harmless what you just read it sounds very harmless yeah a lot of it is like people being like oh we plan to have this person go to the party and i saw on a spotify playlist that he was listening to the smiths so i wore a shirt right it's not like high level machiavellian like i'm making him do something it's more just like kind of starting, getting the ball rolling. Because like I've, even in my book, I talk about how, like how to turn your situation into a relationship if it's ever possible. And in that, it's just like, go out on dates. And when you're about, when you're, and eventually this person will hit you up and be like, oh, what are you up to tonight? And you'll be getting ready for a date, which is essentially

the same thing as this person, except they just like skipped all that, like trying to go on dates and actually meeting people and just faked the whole thing to try to elicit the same emotional response. And I guess the question is, is that deceitful or is that just efficient? I say go for it. Yeah. You're fine with that. Yeah. Would you feel the same if that was done to you? I wouldn't care how they got there if they were interested in me. I'd be stoked. You know what I mean? Like if I was manipulated into like someone that I loved,

I'd be like, oh, great. If someone opened my eyes to that. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting. Because I think it's hard too. Like, you know, like you don't know who the right person is for you and you can't just tell looking at them. Well, I definitely agree.

Sometimes we get in our own ways. We get in our own way and we can't see the forest, the trees. And especially now with the kind of a paralysis of choice of options. And sometimes we need someone. Natalie was that for me. She's kind of like, hey, we should date. Like, and here's why. And, you know, kind of like.

I think guys need that too. She's just kind of like, hey, we should date. Like, and here's why. And, you know, kind of like metaphorically. I think guys need that too. I think guys really need that. Where a girl's like, this is it. And you're like, oh, okay. Right, right. Yeah. But like, there's definitely a line.

I don't know where the line is of like being upfront and honest versus like you lied to me or you manipulated me. I, and I feel like there, I don't, you know, I don't know where that line is, but I feel like people would have a problem with it. They found out they probably disguised. That would be the, if you were like disguised as someone else.

Okay. I think that's where I draw the line. It's like how a wig he says. Yeah. I don't know. Well, cause it, I just think it would bother some people.

Sure. I think that on the other hand, it can make people feel very known. It's like, oh, wow, you really listen and you really care and you're very thoughtful and perceptive in terms of thinking through all of these considerations that I would have, all of these things that I like, all of these places that I would go. It shows a lot of effort, which I think is maybe the positive side of things. It's just like, yeah. I guess the question is, is it deceitful? Like if you're going to pretend to like this same band that somebody else likes.

Yeah, a little bit. It's like, it's what Kanika would do. Yeah, she would. Kanika would do that. She's a mastermind.

Yeah. She'd pretend to like the Smiths. What's your greatest fear? Uh, dying. Really? Are you afraid of dying? Yeah.

Do you believe in life after death? No. Is that why you're afraid of it yeah because you're just done yeah have you always uh no and i got to be uh i just yeah when i just got to be old i was just like there's no way i feel like i'm similar to you i want to believe i grew up very catholic sure yeah i'd love to believe it and i'd love to get there and be like oh man i was wrong yeah but it doesn't like pragmatically make sense in my head that that would happen my dad had an interesting pov and he was like even if there is no life after death i don't think i'll regret living my life in the way i am now like as a catholic as like someone who's like sure considerate of others because he's like yeah I'm I'm doing all this in the hopes that one day I'll have eternal life in the way I hope there is but

if not at least I was a great person yeah I always thought that way yeah and I still think that way but I still very much try to be a great person I just don't go to church every Sunday now I just you know that's the big difference that i just have more time on sundays farmer's market yeah basically i just traded one for the other vegetables and you know more more relaxing morning on a sunday you ever go down to the fairfax one i have yeah yeah yeah i went to a psychic there oh what'd they tell you um i don't know my girlfriend's really into it i don't know. We're going to be together forever and everything's great. I don't like, there was a medium at our launch party and I don't believe in that stuff

because if I did, I'd be nuts about it. Yeah. I'd be so neurotic. Are you guys big into signs? I'm not. Like astrology? Well, no. I wish I knew more.

My therapist is. Yeah? Darlene. Darlene is into astrology. Well, no. I wish I knew more. My therapist is. Yeah? Darlene. Darlene is into astrology. Okay. Yeah. It's interesting. I feel like there's like a New England part of me that still has like a preconceived judgment

about it. Like that views it as very separate from other like scientific or psychological things. But I'm like, it's pretty harmless. I only when it's like something that I already kind of believe like confirmation bias then I love astrology. What's your sign? Guess. I don't know. I don't know a lot about signs. I wouldn't even know. I'm an Aquarius. I know when your birthday

is and I still don't know what it was. So I'm supposed to get along with you very well because I'm a Gemini. You're a Gemini? Yeah. My mom's an Aquarius. Geminis aren't they supposed to be kind of. I don't know. I went on Twitter once and it was like,

Gemini's are the worst. I was like, okay. The big like buzzword is two-faced. Yeah. They drop it. They drop, they change their mind.

But also multidimensional, like charismatic. Charismatic. Tupac, wasn't he a Gemini? Bob Dylan is a Gemini. Very talented. Kanye's a Gemini.

Okay. Yeah. Talented. Very talented are you uh ready to give some people some unsolicited texting relationship advice yeah is it unsolicited if they call and ask uh yeah you're right are you ready to give some people some solicited solicited unexpert dating advice solicited or unsolicited let let's go. Yeah, let's do it. I'm down. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good.

What's your name? My name's Carly. I'm 27, and I'm dealing with somebody who's leaving a lot of breadcrumbs and mixed signals, and I'm trying to figure out if I should shoot my shot. So I'm coming here for some texting help. Okay. How long have you been hanging out with this person? Give us a little backstory. We're not currently hanging out. We went on a bunch of dates a few months ago,

and then he cut it off. Amazing dates, at least in my opinion, it felt like it was mutual. We've seen each other once or twice over the past few months. And after a lot of no contact, he followed me on Instagram and even before then watched my stories without following me and you know all these things are kind of adding up to me not knowing what to do and i think i still have feelings so how many dates did you go on four okay did you hook up not sex not sex okay so you messed around a little bit ran around a few bases okay and then he just like ghosted cut it off or gave you the all like, I'm not sure if this is working out type of. We texted a bit, but it was like towards the end, it was kind of sparse.

And he like left me on read for two days. And then when he did answer, it was like, I think you're so great, but I just don't see this going anywhere. Okay. And then some time passed. And then what are these bread coming things other than he followed you on Instagram, he watched some of your stories. What else? That's mainly it. We have some mutual friends. And after he and I had been out of touch, he saw one of my friends out and brought me up, no prompting, just knowing that she knew me and was just talking about the whole situation that he was kind of a dick to me at the end of all of it just you know little things here and there that i would think are really unnecessary unless there's some sort of like interest still lingering there or

something like that i know i'm reading into things also but it's still nagging at me yeah well interestingly enough we just talked to someone earlier who talked about uh the misuse of empathy and i can't help but like think about how that applies to this conversation because it sounds like he is he feels bad right you know and i think a lot of times in these dating situations especially if you have mutual friends. We do. Yeah. Let's start with how old is he and what does he do? And does he live in your town or where? Yeah, we're both in New York.

He's 30. Some, I want to say real estate tech type thing. I didn't really understand it when he explained it. Is he somebody that goes on a lot of dates and sees a lot of women? Probably a normal amount i know that like a lot of his friends are already married i think he's probably like the last single one um i don't know if that means he dates so much but like probably the same amount i do which is solid right so he was watching you noticed him watching your stories before he followed you then he followed you and now he's following you and still watching some of your stories.

Yeah. I don't think there's much there. Right. Yeah. I agree. And I logically know that. Okay. I'm so aware that I'm grasping at straws here.

But at least for me, I go on a lot dates that are like a snooze fest and like i don't connect with people right away and we connected really really well and had so much in common and this and that and like that maybe i'm building that up way more than what it was but not to me it was like really special so I think I don't have any problem with you like reshooting your shot. But I think you want to reframe what exactly are you doing? Because it almost seemed like at first it was, you know, like you said, how you opened it. It's just like, well, this person is giving me mixed signals. I don't know if they are giving me mixed signals.

He saw your story and he followed you. Yeah. That's what we have to go on. He's just trying to be nice. He's like, yeah, we're friends. But if you went on a bunch of dates with somebody and ended it, and then like, would you follow?

Like, to me, that's crazy. Like, why would you want anything to do with me? It's crazy. I'm only guessing here, but it probably feels crazy to you because you like him. So you're thinking, I'm not going to follow him. My only interest in this guy is the potential of a romantic

relationship. And so you're just like, I would never think that because you're the one who kind of feels a bit powerless in this situation because you wanted to keep hanging out. And again, I'm just guessing here here but i think especially a lot of guys nowadays they're so afraid of of being a dick or an asshole and they certainly guys who care you know like you know there's certainly plenty of guys maybe don't give a shit but i think there's still a lot of great guys out there who date imperfectly who maybe aren't the most mature best communicators but are well-intentioned and he might just be a well-intentioned fuckboy, I guess. Still a fuckboy, potentially.

And maybe just because he hasn't found his person. And you had a couple nice dates, and then he kind of awkwardly gave you the whole, I'm not sure this is what I'm looking for. And then he came across your Explorer page because you have some mutual friends. And you're like, you know, your Explorer page because you have some mutual friends and you're like, I'll give her a follow and see what she's doing. And you probably, you know, probably thinks you are a nice person. So he's thinking what's wrong with having a nice

person who I'm cool with? Because we often, you know, I think society tells ourselves, especially, I think often men are judged for their ability to, like, we always say how it's bad to like criticize your exes, right? And talk shit about your exes. So I think especially men, I think we might, you tell me what you think. It's like a red flag for us if we don't have good relationship with our exes. It's like, who are you, who did you date, who you're cool with, who you're friends with? Because like, that means you're emotionally immature or anything like that. So you could be overthinking like, well, I'm mature. I'm cool. I could be friends with because like that means you're emotionally mature or anything like that so he could be overthinking like well i'm mature i'm cool i could be friends with someone i want to date with see we're still cool you know i handled it the right way and that could literally

just be the reason have you thought about turning yourself into a sociopath from time to time we have someone you can follow like i have really thought about playing the game or just like cutting the bullshit and reaching out like playing the game and following back and see if that like was a little encouragement for him to actually reach out to me if that's what he was going for. And if not, like if I followed him and he did nothing, would I just be doubly as upset? Should I just reach out and get an answer so I can move on one way or another? And that's what's going on up here. I think you should be super bold. Do what you want.

Get it out of the way. Write a, write a, have Nick, he's the master. Have him write you a great text. Do it. Have no expectations about it. Just be like, this is it. I'm shooting my shot. This guy is fucking lucky to be with me.

And lots of times guys are like a little dumb because I know i can yeah guys are guys are a little dumb when it comes to that stuff they may not see what's right in front of them um and and so if you go in there super strong uh and just like this is it this is what i think take it or leave it jack and uh and then move on and and don't and be prepared for like oh yeah you know it's not it's it's i really like i what i think is, I think he really likes her. He thinks she's really funny. He thinks she's really cool. Just maybe doesn't want a romantic thing.

Yeah. Maybe that's it. It could be a million, like, it could be a million things of why he decided not to, right? Like, to Jason's point. But that can also change, too. You have, you have, you, you probably have a lot of things that he loves about you and maybe he's not ready to commit, but if you, I think if you go in there strong and also I don't give dating advice, so don't listen

to me, but, but this is what I think right now. I think that's great. I think that ultimately it's great advice by Jason. I think the important thing is when you reach out to him is to not bring up the questions that you have. I don't think you have to know that there's nothing to ask him other than what you are. You're not even really asking him anything. You're reengaging him. That's why I've been stalling also because I don't know what my question is. I don't think you have a question. It's more of a, hey, I've thought about this, and I think you should reconsider. It's a pitch, really. You're basically pitching him.

And you would say that all over text and not just be like, hey, I want to catch up over a drink and then say it there. I don't know. I don't know the approach. Yeah. I definitely don't think. I want you to get it out of your head that there's nothing to reach out to me and be like, hey, I feel like you're giving me mixed signals. Or why are you. Yeah. I don like, nothing like that. I think you go in with the mindset, kind of like Jason said of this guy, nothing's changed in his mind. And I think if

you reach out, you've got to have that expectation of, he's just kind of like, wait, I already told you I'm not interested. This is more like you being really bold, like Jason said, and saying, hey, I know you told me this, but hear me out. I'm going to be super vulnerable. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. What? You don't think you should? I don't think it's like that. I think it's like, hey, what's up? The Strokes are playing Friday night and I have two tickets or I don't know what goes on in New York anymore, but I'm dating myself. you know I have this thing do you want to go?

you think it should just be like yo I love you no not I love you but I think if she does that he might be confused as to like am I saying yes as a friend because I've already told her I don't want to date or she

or like or like did she not listen the first time because I've already told her I don't want to date. Oh, right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Or like, You're right, that's why I'm good at this. Or like, did she not listen the first time, you know? That's going to leave her in the same limbo. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. So I think she does have to be bold. I don't think she should profess her love.

I think she should say, you could reach out and say, I don't know the best way. I don't think there is a best way. I mean, I think if you text him, you should be playful like is he seeing anybody like is he serious i know i really try not to watch his instagram stories as often as i can i agree with your point of if you can do better if you ask him out for another date he's gonna going to think like, oh, did she not listen? Or is this just as friends?

You're saying all your friends think you can do better. So what do you have to lose by literally just throwing it back out there and knowing for a fact? Adding in something that might be a little more embarrassing for me. It's been a really long time. Like we're coming up on a year. Like Instagram follow was over the summer. And I have just been so paralyzed with what to do that I've done absolutely nothing.

And like months later, now I'm coming here. What's been open. What's been going on for you? Since we went out. Okay. Like it's a long and embarrassingly long time. No,

that's actually, I think that's on, it makes you seem less like obsessive in a way. Like if it was a month later, that's like, Whoa, girl. I'm like for a month later, that's like, whoa, girl. And like for a long time, I wasn't thinking about him. I was dating other people and, you know, working on it and over it. And like the Instagram follow pulled me back in because it was so out of the blue. And now I'm just like still going on dates and trying to meet other

people. But I'm just like, whenever it's, eh, I'm like, you know what would have been great? This guy. Okay. So yeah, maybe I build it up. You have rose colored glasses of the past. Totally. Because you're in a lull and it's easy to like fantasize about someone you felt comfortable with and like.

Sure. Um, but in that way, it's like, I just feel like you have to be explicit because or else yet to next point, he's going to think you either weren't else yet to the next point he's gonna think you either weren't on the same page or maybe he's agreeing to it as a friend but you also have to know that his answer very well might be the same

as a year ago and i think like even though i know closure in general is like something i just have to do for myself i'm like a real closure person and like hearing, even if it's no hearing no from him one more time would be like, okay, now you're done. Which would help me. Yeah. So I think the key is maybe making it airing on the side of slightly more high key,

slightly more datey just so that way it actually resonates for you as like, this is a conclusive answer. Yeah. I feel like not even like pitching a date, like literally just flat out saying, Hey, I know it's been a while. I think you just hit him with a hey stranger.

Oh my God. But then she has to come to the chase at some point. Well, assuming he replies, he's like, what's up? What have you been up to? Nothing. But also you don't think that comes off as like more casual, less like if we're doing this, it's a relationship or nothing kind of thing. I don't. Like, I don't want to just hook up with him.

Like. I'm just saying, say, hey, stranger. I'm just, just an open, it's just an opener. Kind of like Jason said, I don't think you should hit him with like a long paragraph of, I think I love you or we should be boyfriend and girlfriend. You're just, you haven't talked to this guy in how long? A year? We saw each other at a wedding, the beginning of the summer. Okay okay so you haven't seen him in months did he take anyone to the

wedding no he went alone you're at the same wedding yeah and how did that go our mutual friend it was like he came over to me and said hi and we had a nice conversation but it was like anticlimactic to say the least and i was like okay if anything's gonna rekindle it's gonna be here and it wasn't okay but i'm also like it's somebody else's wedding maybe not the time to have a serious conversation you know no it's definitely the time to rekindle yeah it's the most romantic place you could be not a jewish wedding necessarily okay they're not that romantic i think you just gotta go for it it sounds like this is more about you just getting the closure you need because yeah for whatever reason you've been hung up on this guy listen i'm you know and it sucks i'm sorry you've like you

haven't met anyone else in this past year that really has knocked you off your feet. But I'm sure you've heard us say over and over, that doesn't mean he's any better than he was before. Right. You know, you just, unfortunately, people can go six months, 12 months, 14 months without an exciting date. an exciting date. And that just speaks to like how hard it is to find that one person that you get excited about, which will make it all that more exciting when you, when you meet that person. But I think, yeah, I think you have the right mindset, which is fully prepare yourself that he's probably not interested. He probably hasn't missed you. The follow and the stories are just more, it was a it took minimal effort to do any of those

things right he he does like you he thinks you're nice he would be your friend he's cool with you he also more importantly likes the idea that you're cool with him you know right probably um and i think that's more that's probably more the case but if you're willing to put yourself out there uh with a high probability that you're going to get the same answer hey i if nothing else it's good to practice rejection you know i think you know and truly right yeah and i think that's where i am like it's been enough already like i'm annoyed with me so it's like now or never kind of thing so hit him with the hey stranger see if he replies back and then and then what's the follow-up i call me crazy or maybe this this might seem out of nowhere but well what if he doesn't text back on hey stranger

then you got an answer true ouch no but if he text back, I mean, give him a day or two. Yeah. But. Wait, but finish that follow-up text. Yeah. It's some version of, hey, this might sound out of left field or this might cut you off guard. But what do you say about like grabbing a drink sometime? You could keep it that simple.

If you wanted to give them a little more information so it's not awkward you could say this might sound like uh a little like out of left field but like it's been a long time since we went out but i still haven't had as good of a time hanging out with someone as i had with you and i'm curious if you feel the same and would you be interested in going out again i mean you're really putting yourself you're putting yourself it's a very vulnerable thing for you to say. Yeah. You're really putting yourself out there. I also don't, I also don't love texting. But is this crazy just to call him?

Oh my gosh. It's just a lot of pressure. I couldn't. Why? Oh my God, it's so not my, I couldn't. You couldn't. I would clam up, no way. But aren't you setting yourself up for like,

all this, all this, all this like not really knowing still by texting, if you could really talk to him here, hear it in his voice. Well, that's why I kind of agree. Like maybe like meeting for a drink and having whatever conversation there. I see what you're saying, Jason, but I think he's going to get this message and be caught off guard, even the first one.

And then he, and then if she gets this like follow-up message of like hey i think you should reconsider i think he needs to marinate this i think if she like randomly calls him and says this he's gonna know he's not gonna know what to say he's gonna have to like think about this at a minimum or talk to some friends and be like should i do this is this nuts you know i found a text of someone who slid back in to my text like a year after we ended things. And it says, hey, weird flex, but I've been attracted to you since we matched. Hasn't ever really seemed to be the right time, but was wondering if you'd want to go on a date anytime soon. If not, totally cool with just being friends.

Ha ha. And sent a gif of them shooting their shot. Sure. So I kind of like that one. That's good. Take it. I don't know. I don't know who it's from

i don't i don't think you should copy it i don't like no not word for word no no no just just say but yeah but like sorry like yeah i knew that you should emphasize how much you enjoyed spending time with him that's because that's what you're trying that's ultimately why you feel the way you do because you had four days and they were really fun and you felt more connected with him than anyone else and you're and the actual question is the thing you don't have an answer to that is bugging you is wondering it despite him a year ago you know rejecting you has he also not really connected with someone and based off of not connecting with someone just like you for the past year is he also willing to reconsider how much fun he you hope he also had with you and see that because

that's the question yeah so that's what you should say we're officially going for hey stranger not the important thing is there's no magic text that's going to convince him to go out with you and there's nothing you can say that's going to like so just keep it simple hey stranger sounds chill enough okay i don't love hey strange what do you like i just think hey strangers like what what do you want that's where i was going i'm not saying it's amazing i just think it's basic it's it's it's it doesn't mean it's all basic if you're saying hi hey what's up you know it's all well hi out of after a year is yeah i think you need to acknowledge that something weird about a stranger what was the last text like that you sent to one another like when you're in the thread typing. Please do not contact me anymore. Let me pull it up.

He sent the, like the anti-ghost basically. Like, you're awesome. I'm sorry if I let you on. I just don't see this going much further. And I said, hey, I'm definitely a little surprised. I wasn't really getting that vibe in person, but I understand if that's how you feel. And that was it.

And you never talked after that? Well, we saw each other at this wedding it was just like friendly catching up I mean if you really wanted to be bold you could send him a text being like just out of curiosity do you still feel this way yeah like reply to that message

and then you say because if I'm being honest because you sure view my Instagram story no no no no no no no no no no no you just say because if I'm being honest. Because you sure view my Instagram story. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You just say, because if I'm being honest, I haven't had as much fun with anyone else since then as I've had with you. And I'm wondering if you feel the same. I really like that, actually.

I like it. Let's do it. I like it. Let's do it. All right. So reply to that text. Okay. Am I sending it right now?

Yes. Okay. This is what I need. Okay. Am I sending it right now? Yes. Okay. This is what I need. Yay. We're so proud of you. And then you need to go open a bottle of wine. Oh my God. I'm at work. Good job. That was crazy. How do you feel?

How do you feel? Like relieved. Yeah. Right. Because I've you feel? How do you feel? Like relieved. Yeah, right? Because I've been telling myself to do this for the longest time. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it next week. Like after the holidays, after this, you know. You're just going for clarity here. No one way or the other.

Yeah. It's going to be fun. My heart is pounding out of my chest, but I guess that's a good thing. Well, congratulate yourself for doing something brave and bold. Because it's not easy to do. And it's not easy to be vulnerable vulnerable and you realize you're taking a risk and either way this is going to give you peace of mind yeah you know i always equate rejection to like having the stomach flu and the chances are that this guy is like you're one and only

you know slim to none you don't know you know that there's there's someone uh there's someone probably way better out there for you that isn't you know doesn't have their head in their ass and it's also completely normal to go like everyone i don't care who you are there's so many people out there listening to this who also haven't been on a date in over a year who are they got excited about someone but that doesn't make him any more special than he was. I mean, like, you know, he just, but the good news is it shows you that you can be excited about people, you know, and on some level it should, it's, that's the thing. We always get discouraged, but it should be fewer and far between than more. Like if it was happening every other day, then, then there's something wrong with your picker, you know, because not everyone should be that exciting or fun.

Thank you so much. All right. Thanks a lot. Take care. Bye. Thanks. All right. Bye-bye. Bye.

How's it going? Hi. Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Stephanie and I'm 25 years old. How can we help Stephanie?

And what I need your help with is I have been in a situationship for probably three months now. And what I really want is to effectively exit the situationship. And I want to like formulate a text to send to this guy that is basically saying like, either take this seriously or never talk to me again. That's what you want to say to him? Yeah. In nicer words, I think. Why do we want to be nicer? Because I do like him is the thing.

I mean, I'm not saying you should be mean, but why are you so worried about being nice? That's a good question. I think I don't want to sound crazy. And when you say you're worried about sounding crazy, what do you mean? Well, I don't want him to be like this girl's nuts because truth be told, like I haven't done a good job of like communicating what I want out of the situation or relationship, even though I think it's pretty clear. Um, so it might like, he could spin it in a way that says like, Oh, this is coming out of nowhere. You've never said this before to me, even though I don't think he's I don't think he's dumb.

Like, I think he knows. Yeah, but you need to communicate what you want. It's only been three or four months. What in your in your mind, what makes it a situation? So from like from the time that we started talking and spending time together, we've seen each other pretty consistently once or twice a week. But we don't go on dates. We just kind of Netflix and chill. And that's always his idea.

And we text a little bit, but it kind of is right before we see each other. And then we see each other and it drops off. And then he'll mostly communicate with me on Snapchatchat other than that so it just feels very casual um and like from the beginning i did not say what i wanted and that is definitely on me and i just kind of like got away from me and now i'm like okay what do i do like i need to stop this cycle of what's going on okay so so you recognize that the every time he asked you to Netflix and chill or Snapchat, there is something inside that said to you, I don't like this or I don't like the direction it is going.

But instead of saying that or addressing or giving an expectation, you just kind of went along with it. Yeah, that's exactly right. Because I do want to spend time with him. I do like hanging out with him and Netflix and chilling. There's nothing wrong with that. It's exactly right because like i do want to spend time with him i i do like hanging out with him and like netflix and chilling like there's nothing wrong with that it's fun sure but like i know obviously it's not leading to anything productive and it's not dating by any means does this sound like a conversation and then a text yeah i agree with jason that's what i'm about to

say i don't i don't think you should text this because it does sound like it would come out of nowhere and it can be misconstrued as a text because you're, you're being like really nice and, and you're, um, you're recognizing your, your part in this as well. And I don't know if that'll come off in text, but when you explain it, I, I think you probably get a lot further. Yeah. And I don't even think at this point, I don't know if it's even necessary for you to, you know, I don't think you need to like this conversation isn't about like, well, you only asked me to Netflix and chill and you only Snapchat. And I hate that. I think it's not really productive to talk about what he has done.

I think it's more productive for you to just finally communicate what you want out of this. So I think next time you get together that's really good advice i think or maybe how about you just try asking him out for one make a plan with him yeah what do you want to do with him go to red lobster go out like go to dinner i feel like that would be a good first step. So how about text him? We'll send a text. And that text says, how about dinner this weekend? Okay.

You like that. Let's see what he says. If he, you know, if he gives you the, oh, I don't know, I'm busy. Then you can follow it up with, well, at that point, I really wouldn't say anything. If he kind of does the whole situation, ship fuck boy kind of answer and is flaky, I don't think you respond to that. I wait for,

I think you then wait for him to finally reach out to you via whatever. And if he says, hey, what are you doing tonight? You know, he reaches out to you like last minute. Do you want to come over? And I think you just very chill and politely you know it's interesting like you said well oh i don't want to sound crazy and i was talking to some friends um at an event and they were like oh they were talking about defining a relationship or a situation ship and i was like

never ask you know you just tell them what you want they're like well doesn't that sound crazy i'm like it's not about what you say it's how how you say it, you know? So as long as you're just like very chill and very like confident, but like, Hey man, it's not a big deal. I'm not mad. I'm not angry. I'm just like, this is just what I want, you know? And that's cool if you don't want it, but like, I just don't want to do this anymore. And that's fine. But like, yeah, I'm just kind of done doing X, Y and Z. So if you ask him out to dinner and he doesn't he doesn't reply or gives you some kind of fuckboy energy, don't say anything. And then he's going to try to keep doing and maintain the same thing he's done before. And that's when you hit him with like, hey, like it's I'm just like not down to do that

anymore. I would love to go out to dinner with you. And here's why. Because like I've really enjoyed my time with you. And I just like, I want to like move it in a direction towards something and just kind of keep it vague. Because with, like you're with Jason, there's no point in getting into it with him via text because you're going to get defensive.

But ideally you send him a text. How about dinner this weekend? And hopefully he's like, sounds great. And like, you make the plan. Stop worrying about whether he's going to take, like, this is your initiative. Like, so follow through with this whole plan. You know, hey, pick up, have some ideas

of where you'd like to go to dinner. Just really take the initiative here. This one's on you. And when you have him at dinner, just say, just be honest. I like you. I've really enjoyed getting to on you. And when you have him at dinner, just say, just be honest. I like you. I've really enjoyed getting to know you. And I'd like to see where it goes.

I think my concern is that to like, oh, do you want to go to dinner? He would either be like, oh, no, like I've had a really busy week at work. I just want to chill out. Or he just like would simply never respond. But I do think that if he chose to not respond, he would hit me up a week later and pretend I never asked and be like, Hey, what a Netflix and chill tonight.

So like, maybe there's just no hope. And that's like another question I have is like, how do you, I mean, crazy. Like, like I've said,

like you've said, I haven't given him the chance to like, tell me what he wants, but like, how do you like determine, like determine there's no point even? I think before we start worrying about that, I think this would, if nothing else, this is great practice for you. Because you really, it sounds like you need to get better at communicating what you want out of any dating situation. And you need to get better at saying that more early on and stop accepting things that deep down

you don't even want to do, you know? And you're saying yes to it because you're hoping it leads to something that you do want rather than just stating what you want. So just get this, if think of this guy in this situation, there's nothing else than practice and maybe you'll be surprised. But yeah, before you start, you know, snowballing what it could be or should be or what's the point,

because most likely, unfortunately, the dating game is a lot of this anyways. And until you get better at communicating your expectations, my guess is you're going to find yourself in a lot of these situations. Yeah. No, I think you're absolutely right and that is something that i have taken from this because i've never like been in a situationship before i this is new territory for me unfortunately 25 i feel like i've escaped it thus far but where did you meet this guy um we matched on hinge which is also like a struggle and And like we do have like so many mutual friends and like it seemed so promising from the get-go.

Which is why I kind of let my guard down and just like let it go. Like I was like, let's just see where this goes. But it, I mean, it became pretty clear pretty fast that it wasn't going anywhere. I don't think any real damage has been done. And as I always said, like most situationships don't turn in relationships,

but they do when that person, you just shows them that you're someone who's not going to accept less than what they want. And when you do it like very chill and a very chill and confident way, but like, listen, it's cool. But like,

I'm just, I'm just kind of done with this and I'm not mad. I just don't want it anymore. It was fun. Thanks for the good sex or the cool hang or whatever it was, but it's ran its course. And maybe you're not in a position to give me what I want. I always love when women say that to men because you doubt them.

That's a great way to get on. I don't believe in you. Um, but in a way, you know what I'm saying? Like that works. Yeah, it does. But if, if he believes the trick is, is he has to believe that you really are over it, that you don't need him, that you're not going to miss him, that you are going to say no next time. And that you're someone who is in people love it when, oh, she knows what she wants. She's confident in this. He's going to be more willing to see. And if he doesn't believe that, he won't. He'll think exactly what you're worried about, that he'll just ignore it and see if you give in. He's going to

wait. He's going to hope that eventually he's going to reach out when you're bored enough to say yes yeah his boredom will match your boredom uh-huh i think that's been like the thing that's bothered me so much is like why wouldn't he continue acting this way and like why would he respect me or my time when i like have not given him a reason to do so um which is kind of and i i agree this wouldn't like translate over text as well as it would in but like, I kind of just like want to stand up for myself a little bit and maybe I'm doing that through putting my foot down and just being like, Hey, like this isn't going to work. It's fine if it doesn't, but. try not to project onto him. You know, like I want you to stand up for yourself, but like I said, I don't really think anything.

You've only been in this guy for a couple months. He hasn't really done anything wrong per se, because you haven't communicated really anything with him. And he's just more interested in a casual thing because, well, you've been willing to do the casual thing. Yeah. And unfortunately,

and how old is he? 25. Yeah. So like most young men nowadays unless they're forced to make tough choices they're they're an idiot they're not making tough choices they're just kind of like oh i can i don't have to commit to anything i don't have to make choices i can go out with you and go out with her okay sure i'll do that yeah you know so yeah i should make an effort for sure yeah but it's bad let them know that you want them to make an effort but you know right now i think

focus on you make the effort give an example of the type of energy you want in this relationship so do the thing that you want him to emulate and then communicate going forward what you're willing. You know, it's basically a very chill conversation of if you want to keep seeing me, this is what I want. Yeah. And if, and if you don't know, no biggie. Why don't you try right now?

Tell Nick, pretend Nick's the guy and go ahead and say, say what're gonna say yeah call him on the phone nick pick here okay the phone's ringing okay um like this is what i would say at dinner you said hi oh okay we're at dinner we're at dinner okay and see okay okay um so i've just been thinking and I really have enjoyed getting to know you and spending time with you. And I'm just curious, like, if you're interested in actually dating or like what's going on. And I personally am looking for a relationship and I'm wondering it's totally fine if you're not i just it's not bad that's really good it's not bad i thought for i thought for a first run for a first one it was really good really solid she's just gotta how now practice but how about this so like hey i've read i've really enjoyed getting to know you it's been a lot of fun there's a i think i think there's some good stuff here okay this is i think you should just tell them what you want i don't think you i don't think there should be a question in there at all no question okay try it again try it again go go go yeah okay i'm looking for a

relationship i no longer want to netflix and show all the time and if that's what you want as well, great. And if it's not, great too. We just won't see each other again if not. Great. Also now sprinkle in there what you like about him so far. Why do you think you should have fun? Why do you think it's fun? And why do you think he should keep hanging out with you? Well, I enjoy hanging out with you because I think we have a lot in common and we have fun when we're together and we have the same interests and all of those things are what i look for in a partner great yeah yeah so some version of that yeah i just don't think you should ask a question i think it's just it comes across way more stronger when you're just like this is what i like about you and this is what i want and i'm you know and i'd love for you to meet me there let's try that and then have a mariachi band come out you know at dinner yeah and play a song

also like if you do go out to dinner go enjoy the dinner have fun and maybe do it at the end of dinner at the end of dinner yeah yeah i agree you might you might go on this date and realize halfway through the date it's like you know what not even worth it you're right yeah that that is like one of the things though because like i've spent a lot of time with him but it's all like casual at home like watching tv and other stuff so it's not like we're really like doing the dating thing so i don't even know that much about him truly there you go and again this is not about you like proposing to him you're just like i just i just don't want to do this anymore that's all yeah okay but i like this this dinners and dates and like you showing an interest

in me i like that i'd love more of that yeah that's not crazy at all. It's not crazy saying what you want. And if a guy thinks that's crazy, he's not your guy. That's just a guy who's not looking for someone who has expectations. And people who find your expectations inconvenient are just fuckboys. Yes, I very much agree. So stating your expectations is a great way to weed out fuckboys and situationships yeah and that's just what i think that's what you to focus on yeah for sure gonna focus on that in the future i am not gonna let it get this far all right next time well i think you should text him now

how about dinner next week okay i will consider doing that today hmm come on no I can't do it right now but I will think about it I really will okay well let us know what you decide to do I will I definitely will thank you so much keep us updated I will bye

take care both callers were great Jason I'm just kidding Bye. Take care. Both callers were great. Yeah. Jason. Except for the first one. I'm just kidding. No, they were both great. It's been a pleasure.

Been a pleasure, Nick. Thanks so much. I'll call you with my own dating problems off air. Anytime. I'm here for you, buddy. Where can all the people listen and watch your podcast, all the other great things you're doing? Oh, right on YouTube on my channel, Jason Nash Comedies,

my podcast and videos. Yeah, they're all there. Just search Jason Nash, All Good Things Podcast. All right. It's been a really joy getting to know you over the past couple months. Yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah. I hope to do more of it. We should take a nice plunge or something.

Yeah. get cold together warm each other up or we could just double date I'll do that yeah do you want to do that yeah okay

do you think our girlfriends would like each other would they like each other yes great yeah they would alright

well thanks for listening guys don't forget to send in your questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com. Check out Jason's amazing podcast. I was on it a few weeks ago. He also has Danny DeVito. Yep.

Some other amazing... Julie Bowen. Stars, yeah, Julie Bowen. Who else? He has some great guests, man. We're trying. I'm crushing it. We are back next week.

Leonardo DiCaprio's coming on Monday. Really? Yeah, man. He just wants to come in and just kind of just open up you know just talk about his dating yeah he wants to talk about his dating life and all his roles and he chose me did you go to the birthday party oh yeah i threw it good for you i was there you really made it pretty awesome well me me and bobby threw it sure bobby de niro yeah yeah totally yeah i got it i'm wasting your time at this point you're not okay jason you're never wasting my time okay uh thanks for listening guys don't forget to send those questions we will

see you back on monday Bye.