The Viall Files - E505 Ask Nick - You Don’t Need to be Happy for Them

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Welcome back to another juicy and exciting episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back again to bring on our callers and help them navigate the world of dating. Before getting to our callers, the group talks about avoiding burnout, Ali shares about her first date, and Amanda announces this week’s break-up song, with a couple of honorable mentions in preparation for the upcoming Turkey Dump. We then get into it, welcoming our first caller, who is planning to visit a hook-up overseas. She wants to have fun and keep it casual while also getting to know the deal on if things will be moving to the next level. Is it worth having the awkward conversation and possibly ruining the vacation? Next, our next caller needs advice on how to get over a secret situationship from within her friend group that has recently ended, after the guy started dating his ex, who is still in this group. With nobody in the group knowing about the previous situationship, our caller wonders if she should feel pressured to keep the secret and how she can properly move on. Lastly, we speak with a caller who decided she wanted more from a guy she thought she was casually dating. When she told him she’d been dating other people but wanted to be exclusive with him, he responded by acting confused and not knowing if he wanted to commit or not. Is there such a thing as the right guy at the wrong time, or are they simply just not communicating expectations effectively?  “Is this helping me heal?” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Article: Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit http://www.Article.com/VIALL and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. ZocDoc: Go to http://www.Zocdoc.com/VIALL and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Article! Article is doing great things in the furniture department. Doesn't matter if it's indoor or outdoors, Article has it all. They have great furniture. They're a boutique furniture store. They're mid-century Scandinavian industrial and bohemian designs. Look great, new, wonderful, fashionable. They're durable. Everyone loves them. And they're super affordable because they cut out the metal man. Get Article now. Article's offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com slash V-I-A-L-L, and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's A-R-T-I-C-L-E.com slash V-I-A-L-L for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. You can listen to The Vow Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vow Files Ask Nick edition. Hope you're all doing well.

I hope you all were able to figure out how to listen to last week's episode after the technical difficulties we had of the wrong episode being uploaded for a few hours. It's always kind of a bugaboo when that, you know, unfortunately happens. But if you haven't yet, maybe go to a different platform and listen to it because sometimes if you have an automatic download, it just doesn't let you find it um but it's the problem was fixed quickly but anyway i digress i hope i sorry for that i hope you guys were able to to figure it out ali amanda how are you ladies what's going on i'm doing so well my mom's coming to town tonight so i'm picking her up from the airport i was just gonna say i love your mom And then I realized I haven't met her. Thank you. You will love Karen.

Yeah. Yeah. Mom's name is Karen. Yeah. She doesn't fit in the stereotype, though. But you haven't met her. No. How do you know?

Reputation alone. You know. You know. She knows. No, one of my favorite questions to ask people, either in dating scenarios or just like in general, is like describe your mom in three words. Because it's always so cool to hear what people say and then when someone asked it back to me i was like huh one of the words is loopy like that's one of the three in the entire igloo

stage scenario i would say like i would be like brilliant nurture like something that gets out like deep compassion and wisdom and then loopy like she's just like she's a bit of a loose cannon in the field as you would expect words already now well okay i'm not sure i want my ob-gyn to be a loose cannon in the field if i'm being honest what i don't know if i want my ob-gyn to be a loose cannon in the field obviously not professionally she's like super i yeah i could i could go off about her she went to fucking yeah she's very she's got like harvard and princeton or something like that she went to harvard med school she's really smart and then she worked in public health i love my mom sorry but she but that's the thing though she didn't tell me that she went to harvard until he was like in high school are you considered a failure to your mom since you work on a podcast

okay no because both my it's like my parents are like comical like i feel like in a sitcom if you were to like write parents who are like supportive in a situation they shouldn't be supportive of like it would be them like because my mom's really big on like burnout and she kind of has with mental health she's like I think you can cross the threshold of not taking care of yourself and like neglecting yourself that like it is really costly to cross and really hard to come back from and so both my parents are like really really big on like kind of taking care of yourself and like not doing stuff that you feel like you have to do, but doing stuff that you want to do. And because this job doesn't push us whatsoever, they love it. We will never burn out.

No, they're like, I was going to be like, is that why you don't work very hard? Excuse you. Literally, excuse you. The joke's right itself, Amanda. Thanks. Thank you. Going forward every time joke's right itself, Amanda. Thanks. Thank you. Going forward every time, like, oh, Amanda's taking care of her mental health today. That's the thing.

We shouldn't laugh about mental health, though. No, I'm from New England. I get it. Nobody does that. I get that it's not a very prized thing, but I just feel like it gets results, ultimately. Sharping your axe. You've heard of that story? No. Do tell. I'm butchering ultimately. Sharping your axe. You've heard that story? No.

Do tell. I'm butchering it. His name is Simon. Sharpen your blade on the rocks of tragedy. Simon Sinek, I think his name is. He's like a motivational speaker for corporations. And it's basically this story of two guys in the woods. Every day they work eight hours.

They're chopping wood. And every day one guy takes, he you know they're chopping wood and every day one guy takes he leaves for an hour and comes back and the guy who leaves for an hour always is chopping more wood than the guy who works the whole day and the guy's like i gotta ask like every day you leave for an hour where do you go you're always you always beat me and he's like i go home and sharpen my axe it's beautiful yeah I feel beautiful I think that is true like I don't know I just think there's this like because I went to like a very intense like prep school where there were a lot of families that were just very intense about

education and achievement and like what that should look like I think it's been very I think I'm just unimpressed by like people who grind without discernment. Also, the negative competition of like, oh, you're done working? I'm still working. Oh, you got six hours of sleep? I got four. I'm like, this isn't healthy. Yeah, like the stress Olympics.

Like it was – I think it was also very much like that at our university. It's like that all over. You don't have to be from like, you know, I'm sure everybody – and it's like that in a lot of professional environments where there's this kind of like pile on complaining. And I think it's nice to have people to empathize with. But it's ultimately like I don't think all of a sudden you just learn to prioritize like your family or your health in all forms. Like when you turn a certain age, it's like a habit that you need to like cultivate from the long game. And I think it's so easy to feel detached from that at a stage in life where you're like very ungrounded and you don't have a family and there's so much uncertainty and it's like you don't need to work out in the same way that you might need to but I feel like I'm very neurotic about yep breaks are important self-care I feel like I've always been able to balance it out fairly well like I've always considered myself a very hard worker and a

grinder but like like in college I always remember like I'm pulling it all night I'm like well that's dumb I'm going to bed like I'm not not gonna get any smarter tonight yeah but some people would yeah i don't know what's an area where you feel like because i feel like the real question is like what area does it feel intuitive to work hard in like there's some stuff where it's like it's really hard work but like like i think it's the whole idea of like a calling what you mean like enjoying your work yeah or where you can get lost in it very easily like it's the whole idea of like a calling. What? You mean like enjoying your work? Yeah, or where you can get lost in it very easily. Like it's the kind of thing where like working hard, it's like there's no other way to do this. Like of course I need to do it with this level of like intensity and commitment.

Do you have one, Ellie? Probably like event planning. Like I get far too deep in it and I create like too many. Even if I like create my checklist, then I make like a sub-checklist. I'm like, but what if we had a signature drink like I just keep going I mean I guess the show yeah cut to your voice memos at 923

no my favorite ones are the ones when he's on a run and you can tell he's just stopped running to send the voice memo and he's like so on today's episode caller number two I have thoughts that run through my head I gotta make sure i catch them out

of thin air before they they go away you know and you guys are able to get to them at your leisure yes you know how was your date it was good i i left it feeling like oh i need more information which i told you like i'm like it usually happens that's good yeah like one day it's first date yeah best moment and a moment that left you wanting when you say a moment that left you wanting like a moment that gives you pause or like yeah it's kind of like you know yeah not my favorite moment favorite moment was like we did have some like funny moments like i like laughing with someone if someone's not funny then that's like rough moment that was like hmm like i'm just i'm not sure like if we're at the same like spot in life

per se also like work wise living wise all that good stuff so who knows you think like what do you mean priorities are different yeah or just like I don't know I feel very like motivated by like not even less so like not financial success but it's like I fill don't know, I feel very like motivated by like, not even less so like not financial success, but it's like I fill my days very full. I feel I'm very full. Yeah, I feel like you maximize. I do. And it's like I shut anything that can be shoved into like a slot, like working for different people or like different shifts, like it's there. I don't know.

That's something that I need to like learn more about because I don't know what his day to day looks like. Which he do. Again, comedian. Yeah. He's like pursuing do again comedian yeah he's like pursuing that so then he just has like kind of like random gigs here and there but yeah he's solely focused on that i guess yeah yeah which i mean like i understand i'm an actor that's why i moved out to la but i don't know and maybe that's on me for putting that someone on the back burner because i feel like i have to have day jobs but I don't know you uh it sounds

like you're an s if yeah you maximize your time you're an efficient person I think the biggest takeaway from this and I a man and I talked about this offline but you know how like in dating situations and people will I feel like it comes from men more I don't know maybe it's just because we're talking to usually more women on this show. But when people say like, you know, I'm not looking for a relationship right now, or I'm focused on work and things like that. And, you know, we often talk about how like, it really doesn't matter. Like anyone will make someone a priority if they're excited. There is like a reality to the fact that, you know, if you feel unsettled in other aspects of your life,

it's going to stop you from really wanting or being able to invest in people. When I moved to LA and I left my job and I moved in with my buddy and slept in an air mattress because it was all very temporary for me and I still had my place in Chicago and I was living, I don't, you know, it was all very temporary for me and I still had my place in Chicago and I was like living off my savings.

Like I dated, but I never felt like I was in a position to really date. And I definitely think that stopped me from really trying to connect with people or any one person. And if I liked someone, it was just like, oh, like what am I going to do? Bring them to my like buddy's house? I was self-conscious about that and things like that. And I was, you know, in my 30s being like, what am I going to do? Bring them to my like buddy's house. I was, I was self-conscious about that and things like that. And I was, you know, in my thirties being like, I don't fucking know what the like six months looks like from now. Like, am I going to make it out here? Do I have to move back? So those are like real concerns for people. And that's not to say that that's an

excuse for someone who's might be dating someone to be like, well, you know, they're busy right now. Like, it's not for anyone. If you meet someone like that, you can empathize by being like, oh, well, good for you for chasing your dreams. But I wouldn't empathize in a position to like, say, I'm supposed to accept less now. I think it's just more of a, this person is truly not a position to date right now. Because, and I think you should look for that. If someone really is, if you're dating someone and they seem to, and they look very unsettled with like where they are professionally, or they don't really know what they want to do. And there's a lot of like, you know, I don't know, like, that's definitely, I think, a red flag for anyone who like,

you're looking to maybe settle down with because, you know, we always talk about like, you can't date, you know, can't be your best self to someone else until you like your best self with someone. And if you feel really unsettled with where you are, you know, from a career standpoint or financially or things like that, like it's – you're not going to be fully invested in a relationship, I don't think. I think it's much harder at least. So I do think that's something to like keep an eye out for when you're out there dating for people who, you know, who are unsettled in other aspects of their life. Again, it's not an excuse. I wouldn't, it's not an excuse for you to stick around and try to help them out or figure it out or be more patient. It's just might be a hard reality to say, I'm not going to get everything I want out of this person because they're so focused on

trying to figure that out. So like if, if this guy really is like in the heart of like trying to make it like he's probably casually dating a lot and i i think a lot of people in his positions are going to ultimately be the i don't know if i can be in a relationship right now he's been very communicative though which i will like and that's coming from me yeah like he texts more than i do to the point where i'm like okay well like i, like, I'm trying, I'm playing like the, we really don't know, like the, I like what I know so far, but like, I feel like I'm the tempered one. Is that the right word, Amanda? Dictionary? Maybe if nothing else, he feels that energy. I mean, half the time when like, I mean, we're, I think we're just dumb, simple people. And if we get less attention, we want to give more and vice versa. I feel like any concerns that you have at this very early budding stage

feel so different from concerns of people that you might have dated before. I think you're dating someone who's being really communicative to you, who's definitely demonstrating how much they value you even early on. And I feel like that rocks. Yeah. Always keeping it new, always keeping it fresh. When's date number two? Maybe Thursday. Need a doctor? Well, ZocDoc has you

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experience everything. Total by Verizon is available at totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Based on first place rankings and RootMetrics first half 2022 5G assessments of 125 metros. Experiences vary, not an endorsement. What's our breakup song of the week? Okay. Our breakup song of the week. Oh, it's a good one. Okay. Shout out.

I don't want to out people with their handles. So for future songs, if you want it to be a tie to you, please put that in all caps at the bottom. Because otherwise, I'm just not going to say it's coming from you because I don't want to expose you. Can you say it first name at least? it's coming from you because I don't want to expose you. Can you say it first name at least? No matter what moves you made last year, TurboTax experts make them count. Did you say no to a big wedding and a lope at the county courthouse? Well, that's a move. Did you go back to school and get your degree? That is a move. Did you relocate for a fresh start? That is literally a move. Maybe you moved into a houseboat instead of a house house

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Make your moves will make them count see guaranteed details at turbo tax.com slash guarantees experts only available with turbo tax live hold on to your kilts dearies peacock original the traders is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level,

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actually gave me a fake name because she was super smart. Olivia. So thank you, Olivia, for submitting this song. This song is... I'm so excited because my vision's so bad I can't even read anything on her computer. I have no idea what it is. Casey Musgraves, Space Cowboy.

Ooh! Why? It is... Oh, my God, it's so good Musgraves, Space Cowboy. Ooh. Why? Oh, my God. It's so good. Shout out, Olivia. Amazing breakup song. Yeah. So Olivia said, I found this song a little over a year after a breakup of a year-long

relationship that ended very abruptly but was still having trouble moving on. This was one of the things that helped me start to change my perspective. She sent some lyrics that especially spoke to her. So the lyrics are are you can have your space cowboy i ain't gonna fence you in go on right away in your silverado i'll see you around again because i know my place and it ain't with you sunsets fade and love does too oh we had our day in the sun when a horse wants to run ain't no use in closing the gate you can have your space what does that mean to you cowboy nailed it well i one i think it's so clever because you know like space isn't space cowboy

like its own phrase yeah that was like a theme for sorority yeah it's like a whole thing yeah but it's like you can't have your space cowboy for the rest in the middle i think there's something about the the wild west motifs that really resonate when it comes to relationship because it is the Wild West when you're dating. It is so out there. And I think it's just, this song is such an earworm ever since Olivia sent this. I've been listening to it on repeat. And I think it's just, I don't know, I appreciate the, I have to step back and it's making me really sad. I'm so sad, but I'm also making choices in that sadness as opposed to like choices that are being made for me.

Do you know the turkey dump? Like that thing, it's like a nickname people have for the weekend of Thanksgiving when everybody comes home from college and a lot of like freshman year. Sure. Yeah. Like that Wednesday before, like the biggest drinking night, I think. Yeah. Like blackout Wednesday.

But then there's also like turkey dump, which is when people break up with their high school partners. Well, that's the thing. They're high school partners. Yeah, it's like people who are dating through high school and then go off to college and then freshman year come back and they want to break up in person. Yeah, a lot.

So Thanksgiving is the first time everyone's back. Interesting. Speaking of which, if you have any Turkey Dump stories, I'd love to hear about it. And if you need help crafting your own turkey dump yeah maybe do you want to break up with someone oh my god yeah we'll help wait i didn't even know this is a thing i got dumped before we went to west point so i was ahead of the game so be in

honor of the turkey dump there will be the playlist will drop the wednesday before thanksgiving it will have some of the songs we've highlighted already. It will have other songs that people have submitted that we are to highlight. So in two days, check your Spotify. It will be on the Instagram. And what's going to be on there? It will be submissions we've received. Submissions we've received. And ones that we've already

highlighted and then ones that we will highlight in the future. Maybe since it's three days away, let's maybe highlight just a couple more right now. Not to take anything away from Olivia and Kacey Musgrave, because that is the song of the week. But do we have a couple honorable mentions? Yes. Okay.

So this one, the song is I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor. And we probably know this song or are familiar with it. It's a classic. It's a bop. But I just wanted to shout out to the person who wrote in. I Will Survive. Oh, my God. It's like, I first saw your face.

Yeah, yeah. I was petrified. Okay, yeah. That's what I was thinking about. I really liked the way that you sang Petrified, Nick. Petrified. So, okay. Hi, Vile Files.

I wanted to participate in the Vile Files future playlist. And although I had many songs of my own personal heartbreaks, I actually want to say a song that I introduced to my mother while she was going through her divorce. It's called I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor. I want to say this song because every time I listen to it, I'm reminded of that difficult time. We had moved back in with my grandparents, and my mother and I were sharing a room and a bed. And I just remember my mom being so heartbroken after discovering her husband was cheating on her after she took the challenge of raising his three kids after their mom had abandoned them.

I remember her just lying in bed all day and sleeping because sleeping got her not to think about him or the embarrassment she felt since this was about to be her second divorce, the first being with my dad. Flash forward, she's now living her best life with her current husband, and I've never seen her more happy and in love. So now when I listen to this song, I just think of how far my mom came since it being introduced to her, and I hope it can help others get to where they want to be as well. I love that. See, now going forward, if you have a story that goes along with your song, we'd love to hear about your breakup or why,

or your mom's or your sister's. You immediately get shot up the list if your breakup song is accompanied by your personal story to which we will share. That's a great story. Yeah, give us the sell. Shout out to mama. Shout out to this mom.

And I'm assuming this list will be a variety of newer songs, older songs, older songs, country, hip hop, rap, you name it,

rock. Doesn't matter. It's going to be good. It's going to be a good resource for folks. Yeah. In solidarity to anyone going through a breakup.

It sucks. And ultimately, you're curating it. I mean, the people are submitting, but it's on you for it to be great. And if it's not, it's Amanda's fault. Okay, totally, totally, totally. I think it will be a good combination of showcasing good stories. I think it's going to be great.

Okay, yay. Should we do one more for Turkey Dump Day? Sure. Just give them, okay, so. This is accompanied by a story, too? Yeah, and lyrics. one more for turkey dump day sure just give them okay so this is a company by a story too yeah and lyrics um okay so this one's called malibu nights by lani um and you have to i mean you got to work on your like storytelling voice okay this one is called i want you to lean yeah there you go this

one is called malibu nights by lani and the person who submitted it wrote in and said, I was just blindsided, but at the end of my 14-year relationship. You're losing your storytelling. Yeah, because I'm trying to read real time. It's hard. I feel you. It's hard to read. I feel you. I was at Megan Trainor interview on Jimmy Fallon where she goes,

and that's hard to do. It's like, would you remember in class when you had to go around and i'll read the book i was that's like my personal nightmare mama stop doing that you can do this you can do this okay this next one is called malibu nights by lani getting your voice i was just blindsided but sorry they put a typo in here you have a good you have a okay, set the mood. I was just blindsided by the end of my 14 year relationship. He's emotionally involved with someone else. And I find so many of these lyrics speak to me.

The part about being blindsided, especially. This song is also helping me because it's a reminder that I'm still young. We've been together since 18 and I have a lot of life left and this won't be forever and the lyrics that she highlighted are the lyrics that speak to me are there's no reason there's no rhyme i found myself blind blindsided fuck me i'm doing a bad job with this no you're killing it everyone listening is cheering you on work harder bitch maybe if you grinded more you could read on there Everyone listening is cheering you on. No, they're like, shut up. They're like, read. Work harder, bitch.

Maybe if you grinded more, you could read on air. Sharpen your blade. There's no reason. There's no rhyme. I found myself blindsided by a feeling that I've never known. I'm dealing with it on my own. And, and, additional lyric, I got way too much time to be this hurt. Somebody help.

It's getting worse. What do you do with a broken heart? And who's this by? This is by Lani. Lani. Yes. Malibu Nights. Damn, 14 years.

That sucks. Yeah. No, I'm feeling for her. Empathizing. Empathizing. But a big part of this segment is not only to get some bangers for breakups into the world, but also I feel like people give you attention for like a week after your breakup, and it takes so much longer to heal from this.

So if you're going through a breakup, this segment is always specifically for you, and we are sorry you're sad, and I can't wait for you to feel better, but also take your time. All right. Well, we have a great episode for you. Again, don't forget to send in those breakup stories. We're still looking for if you're in a situationship and you can wrangle up the person who doesn't want to commit and get them to call in together. We'd love to hear your bad first date stories, horrific breakup stories. And if you need help breaking up with someone, we are here for you bachelor finale bachelor in

paradise natalie joy and i will be uh in alabama with uh you two ladies who will be here uh i think breaking down the finale lots to talk about i have no doubt i think our our banger of a birthday party might even get brought up i think i don't know we it's a good thought it's a good thought we will see. There will be no Going Deeper episode on Thanksgiving. I think this is the first time we're not doing a Going Deeper forever, but it's Thanksgiving. And honestly, enjoy your family's shop.

Sharpen your blade. Don't forget, if you're looking for some holiday gifts, Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday is the perfect stocking stuffer for anyone who is a family or a friend who is out there braving the dating world or maybe to yourself, some self-love, if you will. Just go to vilefiles.com and there's several links to procure the book, whether it's the book itself, the hardcover, or an audible audible if you want to listen to that sort of thing. Speaking of Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday, if you would like to join a Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday book club, we are putting the links up on our Instagrams as those groups go live. If you're looking for groups that are already live, they're under a nice little highlight on our Instagram. Or if you're on Facebook and you just want to type it in yourself, you can type in dtyhbbookclub-whatevercityyou'rein.

You can see if they're up and running. We constantly have people reaching out, creating new ones. A lot are currently in progress of getting up and running. So always adding new ones. They will be added to the Instagram. But, yeah, it's been kind of fun, like, seeing different groups already take off. A lot of groups have 20 plus people at this point. They're getting to know each other.

I saw some posts about people who are fellow moms, people who are fellow daters, what they like to do on first dates. So it's cool to see the little satellites pop up and what they're chit-chatting about. So again, even if you're not dating per se, you can find a whole new community in your area. I think that's it. Yeah. Let's get's it. Yeah. Let's get to our callers. How's it going? Hi,

my name's Paige. I'm 26. Hi Paige. How can we help? So I'm about to go on a trip to see someone that I've started something with. And I just want to figure out, there have been no expectations that have been set, or we've not really defined what this situation is. So I want to ask your advice on how to figure out to communicate that and figure out

the expectations and move forward with this. Okay. So you guys are taking a trip together? So I'm actually going to visit him for a full week. This is like a long trip. Yeah. It's like overseas. Overseas. He lives overseas. Yes. He lives overseas. And so what is the current relationship status? So that's what I'm trying to really identify. So to kind of give you a backstory, I've known this guy back since 2018. We were both at the same company.

He was slightly more senior than me. We actually did... What do you mean by slightly more senior? He's 32 now. So there's like not that much. How old are you again? I'm 26. Okay.

So it's like, not that much. How old are you? I'm 26. Okay. So it's fine. So basically, we were on the same team, actually, first month into starting this new job. It was my first job out of college. We went on a Hamptons trip, which is, you know, very typical of the industry that we're in. And on that trip, we actually did kiss. And we have no idea if anyone ever knew from our team, but it was very like, that's not allowed, whatever. So we never spoke about it. And the next day, we pretended it didn't happen. And then from then on, we became actually really good friends on the team. It was a pretty intense job and working crazy hours. And he ended up really looking out for me and really being someone I reached out to for advice and navigating my career. And we put each other for our year-end reviews and we worked on similar projects together.

So we really built this great friendship and foundation. And there was still always just this vibe after that had happened, but nothing ever at work inappropriately happened. So then fast forward, COVID hit, he actually moved back to his home country, which is overseas. And I stayed at the same team. And then about a year ago, I left the company. And throughout this entire time as he was overseas, he was also dating someone long term. But we just would every... I would say one, two months, we just check in and say, Hey, how's it going? And just seeing how each other were doing just really as support, being friends. And we just stayed in touch. And then this past summer, I reached out and was like,

Hey, I haven't heard from you in a while. How's your summer going? He's like, Oh, it's actually going really great. Are you going to end up going to the city that we actually both used to live in and where we worked together? And I said, Oh, I am going to that city this summer. I'm going for work, but also going to see some friends. And he said, Oh, yeah, I never ended up making my trip back in June because my girlfriend and I broke up. And so when he said that, I was like, okay, he's definitely... Something's happening. So I told him the dates I wanted,

was planning on going. And long story short, he came at the exact time. And he made a dinner reservation. We had a great dinner. And it was just felt so natural and comfortable just because I've known this guy for so many years. And then he obviously made a move and we kissed and it was just like a really great first date. And it felt really awesome. And from my perspective, this is a guy where I can definitely see something growing and there's a lot of potential. And so we spent around three days together just really hanging out.

And he admitted that he felt that this was really a long time coming and that he was really excited to move past friends. And so after such a great few days together, then we talked about me coming to visit him. And so that trip is happening now next week okay now you are and you haven't slept with this guy yet have you i have not okay what are your expectations around that i mean that's definitely gonna happen that's definitely gonna happen okay yeah have you guys talked about that the last night i was with him in in this city um i did actually stay with him that night and you know know, it was progressing in that way. And I stopped him quickly and was just like, you know, I don't want to go. I don't want to have

sex tonight because, you know, I've in previous relationships, I've, our situations, I've progressed way too quickly physically and then never caught up emotionally. And I told him, I said, I don't want to make that same mistake, you know, in this situation. And he goes, I completely respect that, you know, and he didn't question it at all. But there's definitely like very good chemistry. How long ago was that? Did you have that conversation about your fears of past relationships and moving too physically? That was when that was back in August when I last saw him in person.

So you haven't seen him since last August. Okay, a couple months. I just think you should be mindful. Do what you want. If I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. I would totally have the sex. But I think you are going against yourself. You know what I'm saying?

Because you still have so much to learn about this guy. You haven't even seen him in person since you last had that conversation. And I know you've had a lot of conversations in between, and certainly that has grown. And the benefit of a long-distance relationship is that you are forced to have conversations. You're forced to have conversations. You're not hooking up as much, and that's great. Yeah. But you still have a lot to learn. And I'm not saying don't have the sex, but just know that you will be in a way

slightly going against what you said to him just a couple months ago about your desire to build something really emotionally. And also anticipate the possibility that right after you have sex, he could act a little weird. I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen. But I guess where... And I totally see your point. And I think that's a really valid thing to say. I think I feel like because I have known him for a long time, and I definitely didn't want this just to be like, oh, we're in the same city, we hook up and that's it. And so that's why I specifically made sure I didn't hook up with him. So then I think this is a bit different is where we really... We talk almost every day. It's really... We don't FaceTime because there is a time difference, but we message a lot and we

send... It's good conversation and he has shown that he like really has validated me and really likes me. And like, even the last time we did FaceTime, he was expressing how like, he wants to come visit me soon, like after this trip. So it's like, it's almost like, I feel like we both, like, we both feel really good about it, but I just want to make sure I'm approaching, like, we have to have serious conversations, right have serious conversations of where is this going to go? Because I am at the age where I'm not just... I've never been to the city, so I'm excited to go, but I am dating with intention. So you haven't had conversations with him about this relationship and your expectations?

No, because I felt like it was at least this new facet or side of a relationship with him and being more than just friends was so fresh that I felt like after three days being together in a city, being like defining the relationship, I almost felt like was too intense and too heavy because I just like almost wanted it to naturally flow. And now I feel like this, this week where I'm with him will be that opportunity. Cause it's like, then I'm,

I'm really going to get to know, I mean, I'm going to be staying at his place. I'm going to really get a feel of like what it's like to date him. And I feel like that that's where we can have that conversation is how I viewed it. I'm not saying you're wrong okay i'm just saying you're it puts more pressure on the relationship in yourself yeah by like it

has i'm gonna get on this plane and i'm gonna be stuck in a foreign country you know stuck is a strong word you know ideally you're with the person you want to be with and things like that but there's a lot of things you're planning on doing on your this trip you're with the person you want to be with and things like that. But there's a lot of things you're planning on doing on this trip. You're going to have sex for the first time, but you also immediately want to, like, do you plan on having sex or do you plan on talking about expectations first? I mean, I'm probably going to be the, you know, sex first and then expectations, but you're probably insisting it should be the other way around. Insisting?

Yeah. You know, I think it's always better to set up expectations first. You're flying to another country already knowing that you hope this could turn into something. Yeah. And I get that. And you're already planning on having sex with him. Yeah. And you have no idea if he have this if he has the

same hopes as you have i he hasn't like verbally expressed them but his actions of like what do you mean by time we were together and just like you know just how he i feel like how he speaks to me how he how he treats me he said like you know he was just saying how he speaks to me, how he treats me. He said like, you know, he was just saying how he felt this was like a long time coming. And we always felt like there was a connection. Like, I feel like he's really respected me and prioritized me more than I've experienced in previous relationships. And I just get the, I get my gut tells me that he's not like, we have such a deep friendship that he would really fuck me over if he was just having me fly over to like have a fun week and then be done with me.

Like we already have such a foundation already. That's why I guess I feel more secure going into it. Okay, great. That's awesome. So given what you're just telling me, why do you think having a conversation like this over the phone via FaceTime or something like that is something that you can't do before you get on the plane if you have such a belief in him? You know what I'm saying? If it's not that big of a deal, then it's not that big of a deal. I think it's the reason why I don't feel... Because for me, I feel like that... And this is maybe a completely different perspective, but I feel like if I need to go and have that conversation,

like on the phone with him, I feel like that shows a slight like insecurity, right. That I need like him to validate. I don't, I don't think it's ever a sign of insecurity to, to communicate your expectations and, and,

and what you want out of any type of interaction. Yeah. You know? I just, I guess it's more, it's me where it's like, I just would love to have that conversation in person. You know? Yeah.

Like, I just would, I would rather, I just feel like I just, it's important. Like, I think because it's such an important conversation, I do, I don't want to rush it or make it feel forced over time yeah but you're gonna have sex and then immediately feel a pressure

to want to have this conversation because after you have sex there's a good chance who knows how he's gonna act i mean it's really reminding me i had this like this is so long ago but i had this like love affair like this with this girl who lived in a different city that had nothing to do with The Bachelor but I finally went to go visit her and we immediately hooked up even after like and I you know I remember this conversation I had with her and we had talked a lot about it you know the sexting and all the things that kind of go into that love affair and I remember there was this nervousness and I remember saying to her like, Hey, I just want to say, I know we've joked, joked a lot or talked a lot about the sex aspect. And like, obviously,

you know, I'm attracted to you, but I just want you to know that like, I have no expectations around it and things like that. Cause I just, I wanted to take the pressure of sex off the table, which she really appreciated. And then like the first thing we did like the literally like second session i'll be arriving there morning in the morning so i will have like a full i think we're gonna do sightseeing like you know there's gonna be sure well you don't know what's gonna happen but this is all to say like right after we hooked up there was like it was kind of a mind fuck if sex is a powerful thing especially when you're doing it with someone you have a lot of expectations of and then you start re-evaluating things and

guys especially after they climax go through this whole kind of like emotional kind of roller coaster and and then they can be disconnected sometimes too i mean like biologically we have this tendency of well like you know women tend to biologically want to do the opposite there's a kind of bond and so then you have all this pressure of like i'm i'm overseas and all of a sudden he's being weird and we just hooked up for the first time and i oh now i want to but now i want to talk because now i'm feeling insecure because of how he's reacting you can see where i'm going with this is like yeah you want to avoid a simple phone call with someone that you have all this confidence

because you don't want to add pressure to it. And you're finding a lot of reasons not to have this conversation. And I'm not trying to force you to have this conversation, but if you're trying to make this whole trip a little bit more enjoyable and set yourself up for success, I would recommend maybe at least having some conversations around some hopes and expectations and desires of this relationship. I'm not saying you should like ask for to define the relationship over FaceTime, but you know what I'm saying? I just, I think you shouldn't actively try to avoid it. And how would you go about that conversation? Because I think maybe that's why I haven't, because I haven't fully like developed or thought about like what I want to say or how to bring up this topic.

Because I think it's a delicate topic, right? Because I don't... Why delicate? I guess it's just like... For me in past relationships, I feel like I got too excited too quickly. And then, you know, get cold feet, right? And I don't want that to happen here. I don't think it's going to happen. But I don't know. You never want to be like the crazy girl. Like

that's always like my fear. I don't think I ever have, but you know, like. I think we just have to normalize you setting expectations is not crazy and it's not pushy and it's not you projecting an insecurity. It's quite all, it's the opposite. It's more rational and it takes confidence to state what you want out of fear of facing some sort of rejection, you know, because ultimately I think you're just afraid of it not going the way you want and you're afraid of disrupting what it was, what is going to be otherwise a really fun and exciting thing. You don't want to kill the buzz of you getting on the plane in the anticipation of seeing him for the first time, because you're going to have a very mature conversation prior to that. Where I see this, so if I can kind of summarize where I would like to

have this go post this trip, is I would like to be exclusive and to be like, I don't know if I need a label with boyfriend and girlfriend, but I want to just solidify that we're showing up for each other and we're prioritizing one another. So how do I... That's what I hope. And that's almost like stating what I want or the... I guess defining the relationship. So you said I don't have to define the relationship over FaceTime, but then how do I... Well, you make a good point. Well, when I say define the relationship. So you said, I don't have to define the relationship over FaceTime, but then like, how do I... Well, you make a good point. Well, when I say define the relationship, I mean like the, are we boyfriend and girlfriend? Because I agree. I think defining the relationship happens at multiple stages, even in a relationship. You can be married and need to define a

relationship. Hey, how do you check in? Where are we at? How are you feeling? What are your expectations now? Et cetera, et cetera. Like, yeah, I are you feeling what are your expectations now etc etc like yeah i guess you want to define some expectations or you want to you want to define the relationship i think you should just say what you're feeling say exactly what you just said you know like these are my hopes and this is why i'm coming and yeah this is what this is my i don't know what's going to happen but i want to communicate to you why i'm showing up and why I'm getting on a plane and why I'm flying overseas. And I don't know how this is going to go, and let's keep it open-ended, but these are conversations I hope to have with you before I go home. What if he says, well, I'm not just heads up, I'm not looking for a relationship, or I don't want to be in a long-distance relationship?

Then you are in a position to decide for yourself whether you're going to get on this plane with different expectations. You can then decide for yourself, okay, fine, I guess this is, I'm going to fly overseas to have a fun, crazy week of some great sex and play house. And I'm going to go home and not question whether he wants to date me or not date me. And at least you know that going in. Otherwise, you're going to fly overseas. You're going to hook up within the first date.

And then who knows how he responds to that whatsoever. Even if he responds weird or positively, chances are, knowing how your state of mind right now, you're going to wait to the very end to bring this up, which means that the more fun you have with him, the more it's going to be on top of your mind. And the further along the week is, the less you're going to actually enjoy his company because you're going to be thinking about this conversation you know you have to have at the end of it. And you're trying to reduce the amount of pressure you have on this trip. To do that, I think you have to have these conversations before, would be how I would do it. And I know it's awkward and difficult and weird, and we're not used to doing these things. But if you're asking me how I think you can get the most

out of this trip, I think it's not trying to jam all these things into what you want to accomplish while you're there and not put all this pressure on yourself. And just simply to say, just like you said, that's not crazy to stay to hope. Yeah. This is what I hope will happen. I don't know how it's going to go. I do want to be up front of what I hope to get out of this and see what he says. I think he's going to react positive because I think that was the... I thought about that too, of having that conversation when I was first thinking about going on this trip.

But then I was pushing it off and then he was really showing how much he liked me and showing up for me. So then I was like, oh, I don't think it's necessary. But now you're bringing it back up and phrasing it in a way where it's not like I'm cornering him. Right. And that just like, just saying like, as you said, like, why am I even coming on this trip? Right. Obviously it's to see him, but what does that mean? Right. Yeah. But that's the thing. You're careful how you state it. You know, a lot of people in your position would say that, well, why am I even coming here? That's kind of defensive. You just say, Hey, listen, I'm so excited about coming out. And I just like, it's really important to me because we've been so communicative and I really

value your friendship. And I want to make sure as we advance this, whatever it is, I want to always communicate with you. So I just wanted to tell you, because I really want to do this the right way, what I'm kind of hoping happens. And I'm kind of, these are conversations I hope to have with you either now or throughout the week and kind of the clarity I hope to have by the time I leave. And I don't know how it's going to go. And I want us to kind of be open to experiencing this, but I just want to communicate where I, or I hope to be. It's just, it's helping you guys kind of get aligned and not guessing and wondering because I want you to be able to go there and enjoy it. So the more you know up front about where you are in terms of your hopes and expectations. So before you even talk

about expectation, talk about your hopes. You haven't even talked about that. You're hoping that he's hoping the same thing. So why don't we just figure out whether we know if we're hoping the same thing? Yeah, I think we are. And I think it's now just being more explicit about it. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, right? If you keep saying, I'm confident, I think we are, then just have the conversation and find out. Okay. And I think you're just setting yourself up for way more success by trying to get some of these tougher conversations out of the way. And ultimately, I think deep down, you're just kind of making excuses as reasons not to have them because you by trying to get some of these tougher conversations out of the way.

And ultimately, I think deep down, you're just kind of making excuses as reasons not to have them because you're trying to avoid them. And I think that adds more pressure to a situation you're trying to reduce the pressure. Well, you're getting me excited about this trip. It's a week away. Yeah, have fun. This sounds super exciting. Also, if you're going to have a long distance relationship, you're going to need to be able to have these types of conversations via FaceTime over the phone. It's going to be a non-traditional relationship. You can't always make excuses to wait to have the tough conversations in person. That's not how you're going to be able to advance this relationship. So put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, and start communicating effectively prior to going there

so that when you do go there, you can really enjoy it. Awesome. No, this is great. Thank you so much. My pleasure. I'll definitely give you guys an update once I come back from my trip. Can't wait. All right. Take care. How's it going? It's going good. What's your name? Jessica.

Hi, Jessica. How old are you? I am 39. Nice to meet you. How can we help? I wanted advice on how to get over a secret situationship that recently ended and I still have to be around this person and no one knows about our situationship except for ourselves. Do you work together? No, we are close friends. We've been in a close friend group for over 20 years. And I went through a divorce. And he went through a really bad breakup where he was living with her. They were

together for about six to seven years. And we sort of found each other in this place of loneliness and confusion. And it became romantic unexpectedly. It was really great for about nine months. We talked about the future together because again, we had been friends for over 20 years. And then his ex-girlfriend came back into the picture. And having had such a close relationship and friendship with him, I know his ex-girlfriend, she's a wonderful person. So I said, I get it. I understand. I'm going to take a step back. You guys figure it out. Took a step back. But I still have to be around this person. And now three to four months later, they're still, you know, they're together now. And I just don't want to be in the same room with him. I don't want to be around him. It, you know, it's hard.

Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. It sounds... Well, I guess what I wanted to say is, why did you take a step back? Why did you feel like you owed that relationship that had ended for whatever reason? And why didn't you put out what it sounds like you wanted was something more with him? Having listened to your podcast, because I'm not a Bachelor fan. I am a reality fan. So I didn't really know about you, but I'm not a bachelor fan. I am a reality fan. So I didn't really know about you, but I was sort of trying to seek assistance on like how to navigate all this. And I'm realizing I probably should have been more honest about my feelings and what I wanted. But at the time I sort of put my friend cap on and I don't know, I just ultimately want

him to be happy. And I felt that in the moment, he knows who I am. He knows my family. I know who he is. We've been together. We've been friends for over 20 years. And I just felt that if he's having these feelings about his ex, he's starting to reach out to him that I don't want to stand in the way of that. And so I'm just going to bow out and let him figure it out. And if it's meant to be, I will be here for him. And that's what I essentially told him. I'll still be your friend and we'll still see each other at, you know, Friendsgiving and all the other holiday stuff that's coming up.

And let me ask you this. When you said that to him, hey, you know, I'm going to bow out. How much of you was hoping that he would say, no, I want you and pick you? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Well, I just want you to remember that for any potential future opportunities. Yeah. You know, it's great being a friend and all, but, you know, you owe it to yourself to find your happiness. At that point, you were in the driver's seat. You had something going on with

him. That was an ex you didn't you know necessarily owe them anything per se and at the end of the day you sold you like you didn't you weren't honest with yourself and then you weren't honest with him and i would have loved for you to say and just be honest like this is really complicated for me i would have loved for you for you to say in that moment instead of saying i'm gonna buy out and let you figure it out i would have loved for you to say well if i'm gonna of saying, I'm going to buy out and let you figure it out, I would have loved for you to say, well, if I'm going to be honest, as much love as I have for her as a person as you, I like what we have and I want more from it. And I see more with us and I like everything we've had up until this point. And I hope that you want to prioritize

this rather than giving something that's already failed a second chance. rather than giving something that's already failed a second chance. Yeah. And, you know, he has sort of started to reach out, you know, and he has said like, you know, he misses, you know, conversations with me and hanging out with me. And I always just try to, you know, lead with kindness and not have any expectations. And so I always respond and I, you know, and I say i say oh i really miss you too and i hope you're doing well and he has asked me out for drinks and things like that but he has and is is this relationship or the situation ship you have with him a secret to her yes it's a secret to everybody like if our friend group found out it would probably they would probably be like oh

we always knew there was something there, but it would blow their minds essentially. Great. Let their minds be blown. I mean, you know, like the secret, I don't like secrets like this. And this person, I will say that maybe help you if you need to get over this, this person that you are falling for or thinking that you maybe want a relationship with is keeping a secret from someone who's trying to patch an already failed relationship. And I don't know if you go about doing that by keeping secrets because how would she feel about finding out about you two? So, you know, so she's sort of, I really don't know because out of everybody in the friend group, she's always said how much, and she's told him this too, that she likes me the most and that

she gets, she's feels more comfortable when I'm at, you know, get together as her friends because I'm the nicest to her. And so she, there's already sort of an issue with her and the friend group with like the other girls in the group for whatever reason. So I, I, I think a part of the reason why they broke up, not all of it, but like a little part of it was because of the friend group. There are girls in the group that are, can be very catty. We've been friends for a very long time. And it is hard to be accepted in this group. Not by me. I'm not like that at all. But there are a couple other girls

in the groups that are just very bratty. And they've apologized and they've tried to make amends. But ultimately, he separated with her. And so I think if she was to find out that there was anything between us, I think that would be probably an ultimatum with him on if he either continues with her or he stays involved in the friend group. I don't even know where the relationship is at. I just know recently he threw a big Halloween party. He did not invite me and they went together as a couple. And so I'm just like, what the heck, you know, but yet he's texting me and wanting to go out for drinks and saying that he misses me. So I just am keeping like an arm's length, but

I can't avoid certain situations for too much longer. Like there's going to be a Christmas party and there's a Thanksgiving thing happening. And I I'm trying to make things girls only. Like we recently went to a party like, you know, last month and I said, let's make it girls only like we recently went to a party like you know last month and i said let's make it girls only no guys allowed and so i'm finding myself it's like i feel like i can't get over him like he's like trying to make himself present in my life and i'm just like i i just i want you to figure out what's going on over there with her and then if there's any type of future with us then come to me but i need to know it needs to be 100% done with her. But then on the other hand, we have a friend group who I'm missing out on events on because I know he's going to be there. I don't know if he's going to be there with her. And then

I could ask like, oh, is so-and-so bringing so-and-so? But then it's like, why does it matter if he's bringing her or not? You're still going going to come, right? I just, I think it's just such a bad situation. I think you need to stop prioritizing the secret. I think you need to deprioritize the sanctity of the friend group. I think you need to prioritize your feelings and I think you need to start prioritizing your needs. And I think you just need to start being honest with yourself and then honest with other people. You're ultimately trying to perpetuate a lie or a secret or whatever and it just eats away at you and to your point, now you're trying to manage the secret and you're trying to manage this lie and be covert about it and it's just getting messier and more complicated. Meanwhile, you're also trying to grieve the loss of this relationship or the situationship you had

with someone and you're trying to protect his lie, it's just, wow, what a mess. What do you want? What do you want? Because you first said you want to get over it. Do you want to get over it? Or do you want to at least give yourself an opportunity to shoot your shot or fight for what you want and have no regrets? Or are you ready to move on? Because there's no wrong answer. Maybe you said, I don't know if I want to be in a relationship with someone who's actively trying to keep don't know if I want to be in a relationship with someone who's actively trying to keep his secret with someone he wants to be in a relationship with. To me, that's a red flag. I'm done with it. I'm also seeing a therapist about everything. And so

I realized that I'm done with it. And so I don't want to be with someone who can, because obviously they're texting while we were having some sort of relationship and things were going on that I didn't know about. And so I did not like that aspect of it. And he still can't obviously they're texting while we were having some sort of relationship and things were going on that I didn't know about. And so I did not like that aspect of it. And he still can't be honest with me when I've asked him, you know, towards the end of the relationship, like what's going on? Why can't you be honest with me? He's just always said, well, I just don't want to hurt you. I don't want to make things more complicated, but it's like, yeah, he's keeping the secret. Yeah. So in a way I felt like he was using me and he was

taking advantage of our 20 plus year friendship. And so I've come to terms that I just, I don't want to be romantically involved with him. What I would like is for us to be able to be in a room together. And to me have that feeling of I'm over you and I'm so happy for you and her or whoever the next person is. And I just want to be able to move on. But for starters, I think you should be realistic with your expectations and you do not need to be happy for them. Okay. Thank you. That's actually nice to hear. I just, I want you to be genuinely indifferent about him, but you definitely don't need to be happy for him. If you get to that place someday, great.

But that's an unrealistic goal to set for yourself at this stage in this process from where I sit, right? So what do I think you should do? I think you need to have a conversation with him. And that conversation, I think you can have over the phone. And I think you just got to keep it real with him. You got to be very honest. And you have to stop worrying about, because I think so much of your issue has been you have edited yourself for fear of what he might say or fear how he might react.

You're always thinking and empathizing with him and putting yourself in his shoes. And you've done this for a very long time and you're having a hard time not doing this. But right now you need to prioritize yourself and whatever friends that you want to maintain. And to do that, I think you need to say something like to him, it's just like, hey, listen, we had something, it's now over. We made choices and those choices affected our friendship. It just is what it is. We will no longer be able to have the friendship that we had. In the future, it could grow into something different or new, but the friendship we had for 20 years, I think we need to acknowledge,

will forever be different by the choices we made by doing what we did. It is what it is. You've chosen a different path, but I just want you to know that I'm no longer going to be keeping our secret. You know, I'm not saying I'm going to go ahead and tell a bunch of people or whatever, but I, what I'm not going to do is lie anymore. And here, and then I want you to state

to him what, what you want to try to do. I want to be able to be in the same room with you. We have mutual friends. I still respect you. I want you to be happy and try to have an adult conversation of how you guys can do that. And you're just giving him the courtesy of letting him know that you're no longer going to try to figure out how to not have people find out. You should no longer put energy in keeping a secret. That's his problem, not yours. I'm not saying you're going to go and tell people, but I want you to not put stress into trying to hide it. It's not your problem. And then whatever boundaries you have, I want you to communicate that with him and hope that he respects. I could try. What do you mean by try?

I don't know. I'm just nervous he's's gonna suit me back up again there's a part of me that wonders so you're okay like you know because of the previous relationship like deep down inside i don't think it's it's honestly gonna work out so i'm wondering yeah but are you are you telling yourself that to make yourself feel better for something you don't think is going to happen or do you truly not want it to happen? I don't know. Probably both. Well, I think that's something you really need to have a conversation with yourself about, you know?

Yeah. I don't know why I care so much about his feelings. I think I've learned through therapy that one of our connections was like sort of through trauma. Like anytime something would happen in our lives like my divorce and things like that like we relied on each other but it's like now i'm going through this breakup and i don't have him to rely on so it's like yeah and then you're not telling anyone because it's a secret right so like one of my best girlfriends who i text every day like she has no idea and so it's And so it's hard not telling her.

So tell her. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why you're protecting him. It's costing you. It's costing so much emotional energy. And it's interesting too, because I feel like if I was to tell her, she'd probably disassociate herself with her

and not invite him around. And it would probably make life a lot easier for me because, you know. Yeah. For someone who says they don't want to be in a relationship with him anymore and is glad they're out of it and has decided this is not what they want you're still very much protecting him and you're protecting this relationship with him yeah and that is costing you so much of your emotional energy yeah well i just feel like i can't get over him because it's like you're texting and then he's there. and you really got to choose yourself and you have to stop trying to make everyone else feel okay because it's costing you so much.

Yeah. So I would tell your friends. And if you want to give him the heads up that you're going to do that, that'd be nice. But I don't think it's required of you. I think I just also need to grieve the loss of the friendship. And part of that includes being honest. I think you just need to start being honest

with yourself first and everyone else, because I think the secret's really been costing you emotionally and it's really been weighing on you and you haven't been able to grieve and you haven't been able to talk to your support system or people you normally would when going through these tough times. And it's like, we had a plan on, you know, how we're going to tell everyone and all that stuff. And it's just like... Tell everyone what? Well, because we were going to be open about our relationship and say we really like each other and we're dating and we're going and things like that.

But it's like all of that got sidetracked because his ex-girlfriend came back in and things like that. So in a way, I'm just sort of pissed off too. You know, it's... I don't know. It sounds like... Yeah. Maybe start... Maybe get it out.

Maybe write him a letter about all that. Like, I mean, that might be good practice, right? Because, you know, writing a letter as well, you know, if you've heard of it, like, doesn't even mean you have to send it, but I would love for you to get what you have inside out. Yeah. And I would love for you to just vent. And I think you really need to express yourself. So maybe just put it on pen to paper. And after you read it, maybe you can decide to send it. Maybe you don't, but either way, you're going to get it

out. And it's really not about him hearing it. It's about you getting it out, but I have no problem with you sending it, but just know if you write it or you send it, just know this is about you just getting it out. It's not to get him to necessarily, you have, you should have no expectations of how he receives it or how he responds to it. It's about you just getting it out and finally speaking up and not, you know, just being so reactive to how anything he does. Like by reactive, I mean, like he's been, he's had the control and the power and you've just been responding to his decisions rather than making decisions for yourself. Yeah. Kind of an a-hole now that I think of it.

Yeah. I mean. Just has not been a good friend not has a good partner i mean human nature you've heard the saying you know someone gives an inch we take a foot it's human nature to take what people give us and i'm not trying to blame you for it but the fact that you've been so reluctant to like state your expectations and enforce your boundaries and he also is not a mind reader as well. So I want this to be the start for you to start standing up for yourself and communicating the things that you want and verbalize your frustrations of how he might have treated you just to get it out.

And then I think you should definitely tell a friend and let them know that I'm no longer going to be, I'm not going to concern myself with whether you're going to be or not be at certain places. And then you decide for yourself whether you're capable of being in the same room with him. And it's not, it's, it's okay to say that you're not ready for that yet, but you're not going to do is just keep a secret. You're not going to like worry about whether she finds out or, and, and you may, you know, I, again, I just think you should tell a friend. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think, you know, just the nature of our friendship, I think that's what sort of progressed into our romantic relationship. I've always just sort of been that friend that was always protective and understanding. And, you know, like I said, example of like the new girlfriend that he would bring around.

I was always the person nicest to them. And I always felt like I had to not protect him, but just like his happiness. Like, are you okay? Why aren't you okay? Let me help you. He's been very selfish with your generosity. And your friendship that existed is over. Yeah. So stop trying to be that friend that you used to be to him because that relationship no longer exists. And now it's just some weird, complicated mess of him trying to have his cake and eat it too. And he's going behind her back and he's being inappropriate with you. And those are things to help you continue to get over him.

That's who he is as a partner. That's how he's treating someone he claims to want to be in a relationship with. Yeah. And that's why when you had asked me, do you want to be in a relationship with. Yeah. And that's why, you know, when you had asked me, you know, what is, you know, do you want to get back together? Whatever the question was, it's like, well, no, because now I see the type of person he is and he can treat me this way. And again, he's still with that ex-girlfriend. Like I, they're out together. So it's like, if he's able to do things like that to her and to me, I just don't want to have that type of person in my life.

The more you communicate what you want, and you hear me talk about expectations and boundaries all the time, if he really cared about you, if he really loved you, even as a friend, he would respect your boundaries. And so the more you communicate your expectations and state your boundaries, and the more he's showing you, either he makes you feel bad for it or criticizes you for it or shames you for it or tries to, you know, those are just all examples of him prioritizing himself over anything he ever had with you, you know? So that way, because my fear for you is going to be when him and her break up again. And I think you need to get to a place where you can

stand up for yourself and stand up to him and give yourself as many as examples of all the times that you communicated expectations with him and try to set a boundary and you didn't want to respect it. Hey, it would mean a lot to me if you stop reaching out to me under these contexts and stop telling me you miss me and stop trying to get together all while you have her in your life. That's not fair to me. It's not fair to her. And it really makes me feel shitty about whatever moments we had, because I expected more from you as a person. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I think that's why I'm so heartbroken. It's not just like some random guy or a guy I dated a couple of years, and just like, you know me. Yeah, I'm sorry. To make yourself feel a little bit better is to

take some ownership of the role you played, right? Yeah. And not to beat yourself up, but that'll help you, I think, make you feel a bit more empowered because now you can do something with that. He did know you and he chose to handle himself this way. And you chose to look the other way at times. I'm not saying this to beat yourself up, but I think hopefully that will make you feel better about now you can choose not to look the other way. You can stop missing the person who you had so many hopes for, but kept showing you who he wasn't. Yeah. I feel like my therapist told me that one time, like that person is no longer that person. This is a new person. It's a new version of himself and you don't like it very much and

you don't have to be around it. Or maybe you're just finally seeing him for who he really is. I know. And it's funny because like I said, our friend group is girls and guys, but the girls do always talk poorly of him. Just like the way he is. He's not the greatest person yet. He's just a human being.

Yeah. But you just got to see him more accurately. He's not a horrible, evil person. He's just selfish probably. And he's been able to get away with it. Write that letter. Communicate your boundaries.

See if he respects it. If he doesn't, block him. Tell your friends. Tell your friends not to gossip, but tell your friends that you want to support you. Friends that you trust that can be there for you. So just say goodbye to what you hoped you had and just be, and have gratitude. They did learn a lot, you know, and it wasn't during a good time, like I was really feeling low. So it did happen at a really good time and help sort of take me out of a bad place. And you,

like I said, he was in a bad place. place like so I don't regret anything to be honest like even though like I'm like looking like this right now like I am grateful for the time but it's just like I just want to move on and it's true have you read the book don't text your ex happy birthday yet not yet but I wish his ex-girlfriend did I wish you I think you should stop uh about other people. I think you should prioritize yourself. Yeah. Those thoughts, I wish his ex-girlfriend did. No, you want to get over him, so let's focus on you. As much as I'm trying to sell a book, but all jokes aside. I do think the book would help you, but more importantly, to help you get over this, have gratitude for what you had experienced. Forget about all the things that you

hoped would happen and accept that they didn't happen and then have gratitude for a whatever positive things he brought to your life or you learned something from him great but also have gratitude for finally seeing clearly who he is as a person and have gratitude for finding this out now rather than in the future have gratitude gratitude for realizing that, you know, you weren't, you know, you know what I'm saying? Just have gratitude for the reality of the situation and be grateful that that's what's going on. And you can be grateful and sad at the same time. You know, and now that I'm sort of reflecting and taking in everything, it's just like, what type of relationship would we have had if i was the one always giving

and trying to make him because that was what our friendship was like i said evolved into romantic relationship and it's almost like i don't have to worry about any of that anymore like i just sort of i'm done with it i posted something yesterday that was a quote from my book i want to read it to you. Okay. Whether we were cheated on, ghosted, or our exes simply decided that the idea of someone else was better than what they had with you, it's important to hold those people accountable. This next sentence I want you to really pay attention to. How did they take care of your heart after you entrusted them with it? Yeah. Often the only way to do that is to trust that you will survive the pain they cost

and start investing in people who don't have a track record of breaking your heart. So I think you should focus about how he treated your heart after you were so willing to give it to him. If you were so willing to be generous with the love that you gave to him and how did he respond to that? And you don't beat yourself up over it.

You just accept it at face value and know that you deserve someone who's going to do that and someone's going to do that. But you have to allow other people to do that as opposed to giving other people who have a track record of not doing that. Yeah, I think I just need to be honest and I need to be honest with him as well.

And I think that will definitely help me just move forward and strongly consider blocking him i know it's just so annoying i mean like who does that like you're just because i didn't answer a private text you're going to start putting friends on our like you know stop you gotta stop yeah you gotta stop with that. You keep trying to understand him. You're trying to figure him out. And every time you say, you got to catch yourself doing that. The whys aren't... Again, you got to read this book. Truly though. I mean, you got to stop asking yourself the whys now because every time you ask a why about him, you're investing in him. is not because every time you ask a why about him, you're investing in him. You've already said you're done. So be done and stop asking why and block them. And you're blocking for your mental

health. You're not doing it to be petty. You're not doing it to get a reaction. You're not doing it to cause drama. You're just doing it to protect yourself so that you don't snowball when he gets selfish and decides to reach out because he's needy. That's why you're doing it. As much as you say you are done, I think you are holding onto some false hope. And I think you got to stop protecting them. And you got to prioritize yourself and you got to invest your energy into yourself right now. And every day I want you to wake up for the next few weeks, what is going to make me the happiest? And that's where my energy is going to go and every time you ask a thought about why he did this or x y or z you gotta lock it up you gotta like that's not thinking about it yeah you

know it's gonna be hard at first but like you can be you you can you can do it yeah are you gonna you'll catch yourself you get better at yourself than that but just know where your energy is going when you ask why i feel like a weight will be lifted off my shoulders. Yeah, I really think so. All right. I'll keep us posted. Thank you. I didn't mean to. No, it's okay. But I really challenge yourself. I mean, after talking to you, I truly believe that so much of your challenges and all the things you say you want, you have total control over. And it's going to be no one else. The good news is, is you don't need anyone else to get to the place that you want to be. You just have to decide to finally do it. And you have to decide to invest your limited amount of energy into yourself right now. You're

always going to be a loving, giving person. That's easy for you. The hard part is for you to love yourself and prioritize yourself and get what you deserve so that you can give other people you love what they deserve in a healthy environment. Okay. I think I have a plan. All right. Keep us posted. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

How's it going? Good. My name is Natalie. I'm 28. How can we help, Natalie? I'm coming with a question. Basically, I've been seeing this guy-ish for two months, and he recently told me that he's still confused, and he still wants to go out and date other people. And I'm kind of wondering, is he being honest, or is this kind of just like, you know, his way out of seeing me? We initially kind of had like an agreement when we first started talking to each other. We're going to see each other, but like we're still open to dating other people.

And turns out he didn't do that. Didn't do what? So our agreement was not like an agreement. It's not like we have like a handshake about it. But he said that he wasn't really looking to actually have a girlfriend. And I was like, cool. I wasn't really looking to actually have a girlfriend. And I was like, cool, I'm not really looking to have a boyfriend. So as we saw each other, I also went out on dates with other people. And it turns out he didn't go out on dates with other people. He

was just seeing me. So I thought, you know, I was like somewhat competing against other girls. And like, he kind of kept on coming back to me kind of like, oh, she's cool. I want to hang out with her kind of the same way I was doing with him. So question for you, when you said you weren't looking to have a boyfriend, is that honest? Are you not looking for a boyfriend? I mean, I don't mean like you're out there desperately trying to find someone, but like, you know, you're 28 years old. What is your ultimate goal when it comes, like, why are you dating? I got out of a really long relation, not really long, but I got out of a somewhat long relationship and I was kind of at the point where I'm like, okay, I did that for a while. I just want to see what's out there. If something comes to me

and we click, which is kind of my problem here, If we click, I'm not going to push it away, but I'm also down to just see what's out in the world, what I like about people, what I don't like about people, whatever the case may be. So yeah, I was pretty down and open to it. Do I want to do that forever? Absolutely not. Sure. Yeah. I think sometimes, and maybe in the future, a note for you could be, and I think this is a very common thing. I've done it. Everyone does that. You're like, yeah, like it's that quick response of, yeah, me neither or same or things like that. And it sounds like to some degree, there's're responding to like, I'm not looking for a relationship isn't completely honest, right? Because eventually you are looking for a relationship, your reasoning for your state of mind toward dating. I don't ever want to change for you.

You know what I'm saying? Like just as the further you get away from this past long-term relationship, I don't want you to get this great sense of urgency where you're like, no, I need to find a partner, right? Right now, you seem like I'm open to date. I don't need a boyfriend or a girlfriend. I'm just open to meeting people. And when, like you said, something clicks and that makes me want to learn a little bit more about that person, I'm totally down for that. And quite honestly, I don't ever want that mindset to change for you. But I still feel like you're still ultimately hoping to meet someone you click with, but you're just patient. So maybe in the future to say, yeah, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't have any urgency around it. And I'm super patient about it. But ultimately,

I do want to meet someone. It just gets real fuzzy early on, like you're experiencing, where you kind of talk about how you're not really looking for someone when two people ultimately, a lot of people don't date just to like fuck around. And you get into the confusing element because then you're like, oh, I thought we're going to do this. And then you're not checking in. And all of a sudden you're at the state that you're at now. So back to your actual story, you thought, you know, he was like, I'm not looking for a girlfriend. You said same. And you just kept dating around and he didn't. How'd you find that out? We were just hanging out and it kind of just came up now. It's kind of just like a check-in, like what's going on? And I was kind of just, I turned around and I was like, well, you know, I'm kind of done. I'm getting to the point where I'm done being the cool girl of like going out and like seeing other people while you're seeing other people. Obviously I'm not having sex with other people, only him,

but like a bunch of first dates, a couple of second dates. But I was getting to the point where I was like, okay, at the end of all these dates, I'm still choosing you to some degree. So I was kind of like, he was like, yeah, well, you know, like I'm still kind of confused, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, like that's totally fine and cool. So I was like, I can't talk to you. Cause like, I have to cut it off now. Cause like you had your chance to go out and date other people and you just

didn't like, you had the chance before I got attached. And now like I'm becoming attached. So I was like, I gotta stop talking. So when did he say, well, I haven't been dating other people? I think I turned around and I said, well, are you, have you seen other people? And he's like, no. And I was like, okay, well, I have. Okay.

That was it? You didn't talk more about that? No, we were like sitting down and we like had a huge, big conversation about it. But he he was like, Oh really? I was like, yeah. I was like, does that bother you? I was like, no. He's like, honestly, like that's what I wanted to do. I was like, yeah, well you didn't. Why didn't he, did he try? Did he get rejected? I don't think, I don't think he tried. I think he was just, I think he, I don't, these are like unanswered questions that like, I don't know if I need or not. But like, was he like busy at work? And like, I just kind of fell into his lap and it was like easy.

And just why not? Because I'm a good time. So why not hang out with me? Or is it just like, you know, he's about to turn 31. Okay. And do you feel like from what you know about him, do you feel like he's about to turn 31. Okay. And do you feel like, from what you know about him, do you feel like he's fairly established in his career? I think he's had, he's changed his career twice.

Oh. But I think where he's at now, I think he's in a good place. Okay. And then so how'd that conversation end? It ended with you being like, well, we can't hang out anymore? Yeah. I was like, my phone was at his apartment. So I was like, I'm going to go get my phone and I'm going to go.

And what did he say? He was like, okay. I was going home and he was going to go on a run. So he was like, okay, well, I'm going to go on a run. I was like, yeah, you're going to have the best run of your life. Like, you know, run and be in your thoughts. And he's like, yep, I'm going to go cry now. I was like, okay. It doesn't sound like you two are very good at communicating with one another like you're kind of we're actually we're actually really good at communicating with each other but it feels like there's some passive aggressive comments with you with yeah but it's kind of like who it's it's kind of like our sarcasm we're also i was also at a point where I'm like full shutdown mode like I don't like I'm I'm out but you like them like I just like I just want to leave yeah I do have you told him that yeah he knows he knows like I like no I've told him okay and he knows like and his response was I'm confused

yeah he's still confused also I guess I should mention, I've met a couple members of his family. His parents know about me. It got really personal. So I just don't understand how you can get that personal with someone if you're still confused. I mean, it wouldn't shock me if he's confused because he found out you were dating other people and he didn't and that annoyed him. But he was the one that originally established it. No, I know. Like you said you wanted to do that. So I went out and I did it.

I don't think, you're not at fault. No one's really at fault, but just because no one's at fault doesn't mean he's handling it the best way. And I don't even know if this is the reason, but it wouldn't shock me if like, there's a part of him that feels like, well, fuck, i should have done that

right because i think the problem i think the problem in dating culture now these days in general is especially for you know 28 30 something year olds whatever like anyone who's not in their early 20s are basically committing to their first relationship because it's easier to do that because you're like ah this seems this seems, this feels good. Let's do it. You know, you're not really worried about like, you might start playing house and you might start talking about the future, but like, there's a level of like, I'm young and I have my life in front of me. And so you're like, fuck it. And then you go through some heartbreak and you know, you've, you've dealt with this as well. I don't know what his relationship history is in the past, but at 31, 32, you become a little

reluctant to make decisions, especially when it comes to your personal life, when it comes to forever. And so I think a lot of people now are trying to figure out, what is it going to take for me to decide if this is the person I should actually invest in and get to know? And even though you're not asking them to get married, there's this level of like, well, if we, if we do start dating, we got to like, there's a goal in mind. And that goal is to maybe one day get engaged, et cetera, et cetera. And we have a way of like making it seem heavier than it needs to be. And I think that's the problem with like dating culture in general. And so it wouldn't shock me if the fact that you went out and kind of like sussed it out and got to compare and like the way you talked to him about like, well, you know, I kept picking you. And while you're telling him that, it wouldn't shock me if internally he was like, yeah, that would have been really nice.

You got to compare me to other men and I won. And I didn't get to compare you to other women and have you win. He's probably equating your confidence to your doing that, right? And he didn't do that. So he's like, well, I just have to pick you because of your actual... Because you're here. Because you're here. No, or how you made me... Or more importantly, how you make me feel or how I feel when I'm around you or how excited I get or how much I look forward to seeing you. All those things that he's probably not valuing. None of this information probably isn't helpful to you because it's just giving some context to how he

might be feeling. And I don't know because I can't talk to him. I guess the big question is, what do we do with this information? So when was the last time you spoke with him? That day. I just left. I was at KC. When was that? Sunday. So three, two days ago, three days ago. And there's been no communication? No, I had a bunch of stuff of his at my apartment and I dropped it off. I was like, I'm not going to keep your stuff hostage.

So here you go. How much did you guys really get into it? Because the way you're talking it, it's like you had this conversation. You put yourself out there. That was vulnerable. That was hard to do. He gave you, I'm confused. I'm guessing immediately you felt a sense of rejection and disappointment anger maybe even yeah all these

things right and you probably got a little like guarded and a little standoffish and more passive aggressive and you guys you know you're like well why don't you go enjoy the best run of your life blah blah blah you know like and then i think when that happens you're both kind of it's like you're you're kind of button heads and you're both like no one's really saying anything productive he wasn't he i was definitely i was cold because i was just like this is annoying he wasn't he i just don't think that that's who he is which is something that i liked about him he doesn't get like major attitudes or super standoffish he's kind of just like wow like this is not this is not like what i thought yeah but he was like i didn't think today was gonna go like this so i got a little standoffish but but

just because he didn't get standoffish or act the way you did doesn't mean he's not in his feelings or frustrated but he also like acknowledged he's like well i haven't really thought about it and like it's been two months like how have you not even like sat down and like thought about it for a minute two i mean i don't know too bad two months can go by fast and if he's busy at work and and just kind of enjoying you and he probably that's probably an honest answer he probably hasn't sat down or talked to his friends or himself or his buddy or his family and thought, like, what am I doing? Yeah. Can I see myself ending up with this person? He probably news that he was confused and frustrated. And I'm not saying you should like crawl back into his life and start what could end up being a long-term situationship that really frustrates you. I'm in no way suggesting that. It might be

worth your time to even at the risk of making yourself vulnerable one more time and getting rejected for it, whatever. But just to say that you reach out to them via text or call, even a call would be ideal. I'd love to have this happen over face to face and to say, I'm sorry if I got frustrated and reacted the way I did. Obviously, you know, I like you. I told you that. It was just disappointing to hear that you haven't really thought about the possibility of dating us. But I, I realized that maybe we just weren't, we weren't on as much of the same page as I thought we were clearly. And the fact that I date other people and you didn't, I don't know if that really means anything or not, but I just want to remind you, I do like you. And like, all I want to do is like, continue to get to know

you. And, and I'm willing to do that. If, if, if you can give me, are you able to give me something? Like, what do you see with us? Like, is it just a good time? I'm not at, like, just want to remind you, I am not asking for a proposal here. I'm not even, you don't even need to call me your girlfriend today. But do you like me?

Do you see potential with me? Do you want to keep hanging out and getting to know me? And we can check in in two or three weeks. You can check in in a month. I guess my next then not my counter but i guess my next question is like well he said like the same thing that he said prior is that like he wants to date people and i'm just like you had your chance to do that and you didn't so like what like what am i supposed to do with that information say okay well i still want to see you so i'll let you go out and see other people even though i'm now more attached to you than you are to me i guess potentially yeah like i was cool with that but now yeah no that's fair

you know and like so i guess my question is in that conversation did it go like that because i feel like there's a difference between finding out he wasn't dating while you were you thought he was then you getting attached you tell him how you feel he's like caught off guard that you've been dating other people but he hasn't and then and he's like i'm confused you get frustrated and then it kind of snowballs into this like well i don't want to hang out with you anymore and he's just like what the fuck just happened? Or did you actually work through, like, did you find out why he wasn't dating or what's the big deal? Did you really get answers in terms or did you just get frustrated?

So I got answers in some ways because like I did, like I noticed myself getting annoyed and I was like, no, but you can't, like you can't go full shutdown because that's just not beneficial. So yeah yeah in some ways like i did get answers like when he said he hadn't been dating it's it's something that he wants to do but it's just not like his top priority what is his top priority work and like i don't i don't know like other things but it was just like not on the forefront of his mind is what he said like Like, it's just not

something that he put like focus into. You have more intentions with your dating than he does. It sounds like, because you hear it. If I'm hearing you right, you met a guy, you're like, Hey, I like you, but it's early. I'm not looking for a relationship. Oh, I'm not either. So we'll just keep hanging out and we'll date. And meanwhile, you were, were pretty active dater, you know, like you were pretty intentional. Like, you know, even though you got out of a relationship and you weren't looking for a serious relationship, you were, it sounds like you were pretty active. But yeah, I mean, it was a bunch of like first dates. It wasn't anything crazy. Totally. But it takes effort, right? It takes effort to go out there. You were obviously,

you know, either on the apps or getting set up by friends. I don't know how you met all these first dates, but it took some effort and you prioritize that. And he did it. And this is again, only in the course of two months, this is not like a year long thing. So it's not, it's, it's not in any way hard to believe that he was just like, you know, slightly busy at work has met this girl he's enjoyed hanging out with first dates are hard. They're also expensive. And he's just like, I don't know. I just haven't met someone else that I really want to like take out. You, it sounds like you had a slightly more adventurous spirit. You know, you were like, you didn't need to like wait to meet someone that was like, I want to go on a first date with someone. It was more like, you seem interested. I'm curious.

Let's go on a first date. Fuck it. We can always not go on a second date. That seemed like your mentality. Awesome mentality. One's not right or wrong. or wrong it's just you weren't you weren't on the same page you know right and that's just like even though you talked about it it just goes to show that like casual conversation with very little detail is often means you're still not going to end up on the same page even though you think you are because i i would make like side comments be like so like have you like i don't know like when i would go to his apartment i'd make like a comments be like, so like, have you like, I don't know. Like when I would go to his apartment, I'd make like a side comment. Like, Oh, like with someone else here, just to kind of see like gauge, like is he actually seeing other people? And he would just like laugh it off.

But like he laughed it off because he actually wasn't. Totally. But do you see, but do you see what it sounds like to me after hearing you and you know, when I went and you said, he said he wasn't looking for a relationship and you said same. And I said, how honest was that same answer? The more I hear you talk, the more I don't believe that you were that honest with him. Because what I'm hearing is that you met a guy who you had some interest in. He quickly said, I'm not looking for a girlfriend. You quickly said same because that's what everyone does because you don't want to like, that's what people do, you know?

And there was some truth to that, right? Because you did get out of a relationship. So you're like, all right, I don't want to jump into anything. So I will keep dating. But all your dates, it sounds like, was centered around comparing your dates to this guy you liked. Yeah, no. Like I'm not, I wasn't intentionally comparing them back to this guy you liked? Yeah, no. I wasn't intentionally comparing them back to this guy. There was another guy that I went on two dates, almost three dates with, and we stopped. But I just found myself going back to this guy. So I wasn't like, oh, well, we have this guy versus everyone else like he could have easily gone away but i think we just continued to hang out so yeah probably you're right towards the end

as kind of just like are these guys better than him yeah but in the beginning yeah no yeah it just seems like in those two months you were you more, and again, you were just far more intentional than he was. Yeah, I think so. And that caused you to get attached a little sooner than he did. So, like I said, I don't think you should go back and start what could end up in a long-term situationship. And it sounds like maybe he's just not ready. It's fine, but you can still be disappointed. And it sounds like maybe he's just not ready.

It's fine, but you can still be disappointed. I just wonder, it sounds like you, to me, if anything else, it sounds like you have some slight regret how that conversation was handled and some questions of did you kind of preemptively or prematurely kind of bail on this thing? So for the sake of getting rid of those concerns, would you be willing to reach out to them, say, hey, can we get together? And the conversation very well could end up the same way. So just prepare yourself for that. But at least maybe you could slow the conversation down and feel like you really got all your questions asked and all your answers answered. And those questions are more like,

forget about who's been dating who. What do you like about us? And maybe what you just need to say is, everything I've been doing, it's just really just about reframing, yeah, I like you. And I'm not open to sitting here waiting around. What I am open to doing is to keep getting to know you and definitely check in in a couple of weeks. The reason why people who start dating casually, because that's how people start dating these days, and ending up in this long-term situation or not, that usually just comes down to your willingness to continue to check in and having the strength, the more you get attached to just know when to really cut it off. It sounds like you might have cut it off slightly prematurely. So this type of like boundary setting and enforcing, I want you to hold on to that because you might, and this is a risk because it might get even harder, right?

You might get more attached in a month only to realize he really isn't out there. And that's a question you're gonna have to answer yourself of like what you're willing to do. But I'm just wondering if your conversation was more around the fact that he hadn't dated other people and you did, and that was a huge disconnect in the conversation. And maybe that's what you ask. How much has me dated other people and you not affected how you feel about me or us? Maybe that's a question. Yeah, that is a good question. Because it originally didn't start off. The conversation wasn't like that at first. I mean, I don't mind reaching back out.

I don't care, whatever. I'll do it. I have no shame. But I guess that would be more of the conversation of like, why do you feel like you need to go out and date, not why, but do you truly feel like you need to go out and date other people?

And knowing that I dated other people, does it truly and honestly bother you? Did it? Well, don't say it like that. How much did you finding out that I was dating while you weren't? I feel like that derailed our conversation. And ultimately, what I was trying to do is just check in with you because I've really liked what I've gotten to know so far and I really want to continue to get to know you because I do see potential here again I'm not asking you for like a label but I am asking you for like a progress update do you like me more today than you did two months ago are you in any way interested or like when you say you're not looking for a girlfriend are you I mean because like he did say that and that's something to listen to which is is why I'm here, because I'm like,

he said he's not looking for a girlfriend, but then he literally treated me like I was a girlfriend by not seeing other people and introducing me. Yeah, but I don't know if that was about you or just the fact that he was just busy. So I think you need to just try to have a conversation with him again without triggering him. he got triggered then you got triggered kind of thing and so just try to have it again maybe it's this good practice and it has nothing to do with being shameless or anything like that i would reframe that and just say you're just like willing to like take a chance and you're willing to take a risk and you're willing to bet on yourself and these are all better than like criticizing yourself or you know like calling yourself desperate or anything like that. No, like you,

you like a guy, it's hard to like people. And you were self-aware enough to realize that maybe you could have handled that conversation a little bit better. And now you're willing to, you know, have some humility and go back and have it again at the risk of it going the same way and being disappointed again, which is hard to do. And you should give yourself some credit for like doing these hard things. And so I think if you do it, you'll be feel better about yourself afterwards, no matter how it goes eventually. Like puking. I had this idea. It's Amanda. Yeah. It's like clarity is like having the stomach flu. It's just like asking the tough questions. It's painful. You dread it. It's like, you know, you don't want to throw up. You don't want to throw up and you're suffering.

You're suffering and suffering by like not having answers and worrying about things. And then like throwing up sucks, you know, to get that answer you don't want to hear. It's painful. But like, no matter what, you always feel better afterwards. At least, you know. Absolutely. And you're driving yourself nuts right now, wondering if you fucked up better afterwards. At least, you know, you're driving yourself nuts right now, wondering if you fucked up that conversation. And while he did say he doesn't want to have a girlfriend and that's, you should definitely like remember that. And maybe he's just not ready. It sounds like the conversation went away where like, maybe you did kind of preemptively walk

away. Maybe that conversation could have gone differently. Had you approached it differently? I think I just wasn't prepared to have that conversation so it kind of just went a little awry yeah and i'd say honestly only like a 25 chance you get the answer you want 25 it's not bad and then you have to be prepared for the answer of like well i do want to keep hanging out with you but i'm going to start dating other people now like how do you feel about that i'm out because like that's what we were supposed to be doing before sure well just say don't say that well i'm not saying i'm out because that's what we were supposed to be doing before. Well, just say, don't say that. Well, I'm not saying I'm out. Just say, I understand.

But because I like you, I'm not going to wait around. But what I do know is I like you enough to know that it's just going to drive me nuts knowing that you're dating. And I don't want to know that. So maybe we shouldn't talk for now. Go out and date. And if you change your mind in the near future let me know but like i'm definitely not waiting around but i just i like it too much to sit around

and know that you're dating and that's kind of how we left it off before in a slightly more aggressive way yeah just try to be very communicative and very like chill and try not to be passive aggressive or aggressive. Just be very just, hey man, like it goes a long way. It does. Because when you get passive aggressive or aggressive when you're communicating, they're responding to that. They're not responding to what you're actually saying. You know what I'm saying? Like they're more, they're feeling defensive and they're feeling like the more chill you can be about it and communicate how you're feeling and just be pragmatic about like, listen, like you would feel the same way. It's super cool. I understand. Go date. I just don't want to wait

around. I just want to make it clear. I'm not waiting around for you. I am going to date and I'm not saying that as a threat, but I just, I just, I want to, I like you enough to just try to talk to you about this because I think you're great. And just try as much as you can to have like a very mature adult pragmatic conversation about and it's easier said than done i get it but it'll go a long way i really think it'll go a long way either to get the answer that you really need and get that clarity or to make him rethink because my guess is how you reacted just put too much pressure on him he's like fuck it i can't do this maybe yeah i don't know but there's a high chance probably yeah yeah all right we'll try that out and let us know yeah i will uh keep us posted

good luck all right bye thanks for listening guys don't forget to send in those questions at ask nick at cast media.com cast with a k enjoy your your family during these Thanksgiving times. We will see you Tuesday night for the Bachelor in Paradise recap. Have a happy Thanksgiving.