The Viall Files - E508 Victoria and Greg Tell All

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Freestyle Edition! Today we are joined by Victoria Fuller and Greg Grippo to get the latest on their relationship and to address all the questions and drama around the Bachelor In Paradise Reunion, Victoria and Johnny’s breakup, and Greg’s “rekindling” with Victoria. We get into Greg and Victoria’s friendship before Paradise, the unraveling after the engagement, getting only the half-truth on big questions, and watching Gabby’s relationship with Johnny unfold after leaving the beach. We dig deep and talk about the wine glass being thrown, taking accountability, not admitting to saying hateful things, and how their relationship was toxic for one another. We also talk about what happened at Natalie’s infamous birthday party, Victoria shutting down Tyler at the reunion, and clearing the air on the timeline itself. We also get into why Greg and Victoria went to Rome, when they started dating, and how this relationship feels really different from the past. We then welcome our Texting Office Hours caller, who is struggling with her boyfriend acting out of insecurity and going through her phone, trying to find things to blame her for.  “There were no questions about me wanting to support her.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @vlfuller @greggrippo See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another special episode of The Vile Files. Victoria and Greg are here. Allie and Amanda, how are you? Good. Great. Have we thought about marketing this as VF on VF? Because I have. What do you mean? Victoria Fuller on The Vile Files. Oh, wow. VF on VF. VF squared. Yeah. How about that? Actually, mathematically, when you square, never mind. Sorry.

Nobody cares about exponents. Okay. Russian math school over here. Yeah. So we have Greg and Victoria here. I feel like we asked all the burning questions. And I feel like they were very transparent. I mean, listen, you guys, obviously we covered this last week. It seemed very triggering for some people. The look in your eyes when you did that was so alarming. Well, listen, I love that Batch Nation is passionate. And I know some people were, from anything from very triggered to, I guess, frustrated by what they perceived as our bias takes. I mean, listen, all I can do

is acknowledge that Victoria and Greg are friends of mine. I mean, that is what it is. I suppose if you think that that alone disqualifies me from having an objective opinion about this, there's nothing I guess I can do about that. I don't think it would be surprising to many of you listening to this show, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ellie and Amanda, but I'm the type of friend that prides myself in being the friend who says things to my friends, even if they don't want to hear it, even if that annoys my friends. I don't feel like that's that shocking to many people if they hear that, that I will share my opinion. No. And I also think there's something we said too of

regardless if you're friends with them or friends with Johnny or just a viewer of the show, everyone is coming in with some form of bias. You've been in previous relationships. You might relate to one more than the other. So yeah, there is a bias of being friends, but we all inherently are biased in some way. At face value, there are things about this story that I guess someone could call suspect, right? Like, did Victoria and Greg know each other beforehand? They started dating right afterwards. They go to Rome. That creates questions. It creates a lot of doubt. They are my friends. So obviously, I'm inclined to want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean that I don't ask them questions? Does that mean I ignore certain truths? But the reality is, is that they're like,

I also am aware of parts of the story that I maybe I suppose people watching it didn't. But more specifically, like, if I am being, like, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and if you think Victoria's lying or you think Greg's lying or you believe Johnny, that's also fine, that's your prerogative, but like, why are you choosing to give Johnny the benefit of the doubt? Or why are you choosing not to give Victoria

the benefit of the doubt? My frustration with Johnny's story is that like his information like is also rumors he doesn't have any evidence about her cheating he's literally referring to a party that happened at my house as his like mo his his main like like evidence about something that happened i think to me like an important part of this is like, cause I think the wine glass was something that a lot of people are talking about that we will discuss in the episode.

So I'm not going to say too much about it, but just going off of, it seems like people are using that like, see, this was so toxic. It was her fault. Or like she was also, people are often saying that in response to the effing C word.

Sure. And I think for me, the thing that I was, and I really think this is covered in the episode, but's like she's not saying they weren't toxic like she's saying yes that's my point was that like if i'm doing this i don't want to be doing this this is about a relationship and so i don't really get why that was kind of like weaponized as evidence that because she did that like she's the bad guy and And because she's the bad guy, she also did all these other things. People wanted to decide who was right or wrong. It sounds like they were both wrong in that relationship.

Totally. And again, we'll get into what we mean by that. Listen to this episode. This is what I want from you guys. If you come into this episode and you find yourself to be team Johnny, if you're not a fan of Victoria and Greg, that's fine. And thank you for listening, by the way. If you are listening to this episode, I want you to ask yourself, after she answers the questions, if you had a friend that gave the same

answer Victoria gave in this interview, how would you respond? What would you tell her to do? You know, what would you tell her to do? And, you know, have you had a friend who wanted to get out of a relationship who ended up dating someone else faster? When it comes to Johnny's accusations of infidelity, he has no evidence at all. He has rumors and he has the fact that his ex-fiance moved on very quickly from that relationship. But I and I would love to have Johnny on this on this podcast. And Johnny, if you're out there, come on my podcast. But I would want to ask Johnny about his relationship with Victoria and why he thought it was a type of relationship he thought he should still be working on. And at what point do you just accept the fact that maybe it's a relationship you should let go? I think the big theme of this episode is when is someone, regardless of whatever they might have said or whatever promises they made, I understand they were engaged. When does someone have the right to say, I no longer want to be in this relationship? And at that point, what do they owe

the other person? If you are here for the Victoria and Greg of it all, be sure to check out our texting office hours with Victoria and Greg. Also, if you like what you hear there, if you're new to the show, check out our Ask Nick on Mondays all things dating and relationship stories we have Katie Maloney on Thursday for Going Deeper and so be sure to check that out I don't know check out my book Happy Birthday available at

vilefiles.com if you're going through it it's a great book to have for the holidays if you are going through a breakup struggling in a situation ship just bummed about the holidays. If you are going through a breakup, struggling in a situationship, just bummed about the holidays, or just frustrated with dating, get yourself the gift of Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday. And speaking of struggling in a situationship, if you're in a situationship and you want to hash it out, send us an email. We'll talk through it with you.

We'll talk through it. We'll shit or get off the pot. It'll be fun. Email us at asknickatcastme.com. through it we'll shit or get off the pot it'll be fun email us at asknickacastme.com next week we got serena kerrigan on going deeper uh so this week katie maloney next week serena kerrigan for going deeper and then now that uh obviously bachelor off season is upon us uh our wednesday episodes our freestyle episodes we'll be talking all things you know pop culture we'll have occasional guests uh sometimes most of the time we'll have occasional guests. Sometimes, most of the time, we'll have some sort of guest. I think next week we might have Justin on, maybe to get into the whole, what was the real story of him and Eliza, all that. Yeah. So it'll be a mix of all things pop culture. We'll get in the weeds, some more pop culture stories. We'll have callers.

It'll be a lot of fun. Just current events. Wake up with us with freestyle every Wednesday. And it'll be fun. It'll be enjoyable. So we are sticking to our schedule. And never again will we not be having these episodes. So you're welcome. All right, let's get to Victoria and Greg. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan, you're forced to compromise. But what if you didn't have to? What if you could get reliable service without a contract and save money?

Introducing Total by Verizon, a new no-contract, no-credit-check carrier for you and your family with plans starting at just $30 per month on America's most reliable 5G network. Sacrifice nothing, experience everything. Total by Verizon is available at totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Based on first place rankings and RootMetrics first half 2022 5G assessments of 125 metros. Experiences vary, not an endorsement. Victoria, Greg, welcome.

Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us, Nick. How's your heart? It's confused. Confused? Yeah. Why? I would say it's a little somber at the moment.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, after my week, your heart would be a little down as well uh you've had a tough week it sounds like yeah it's been it's been rough what's been the roughest part about it i think the roughest part about it is just seeing things that aren't true about myself and my character being questioned and wanting to defend myself, but also just wanting to like, I don't know, like be happy. Yeah. So it's just a weird dichotomy.

Well, I'm glad you're here. Thank you. I know the people have a lot of questions about timelines and the relationship. We know that obviously AFR brought some things to light and then Johnny did a couple of interviews and brought some things to light. And I figured we'll just kind of go over everything and then we can let. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy,

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What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it. Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple.

I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine.

Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. You know, I guess people decide where they land. Let the chips fall as they may. That's what I always say. No fall as they may. I guess. That's what I always say. No, I don't.

I do not say that. I've never said that before in my life. I've never said that. One time. He's never even heard of that. Nope. Well, so yeah, I guess let's just, I mean, I'm just going to ask all the burning questions and we'll go from there.

So at the finale, Greg said the word rekindle. A lot of people noticed that. And I think Johnny said that after you guys got engaged, you and Johnny, that you told him something about Greg. You told him that you guys had talked or had something going on. Is that true? And can you provide context to that relationship? Or what did he mean by you and Greg talked? Yeah, so Johnny and I actually had this discussion on the beach because it got brought up.

Andrew and Justin were down there, and those are two of Greg's best friends. Those are his boys. And so it kind of just got brought up at bachelor nation is a small world. We all hang out. Um, and Johnny asked me about it and I was like, yeah, Greg and I were friends.

Um, we did, you know, communicate. We had common, or we did have an interest in one another prior to going, but he wasn't going on the show. I wanted to go on the show still. And, I mean, that was really it.

We had very brief communication. Did you reach out to Greg or did Greg reach out to you first? I mean, I know you guys hadn't met, but like who hit up the other person? Well, we've been friends for the past like year. And then right around April timeframe when they were casting, I reached out to Greg and I was like, hey, are you going to Paradise? And we kind of-

You had Greg on your mind as a potential? Yeah, I would say it was more so just like trying to figure out who was going at that point but yeah there was definitely interest as we got to know each other for sure but it was very platonic i mean we were friends there was never did you guys hang out at all before as friends yeah yeah but the only time was during the super bowl yeah um no i mean like after you hit them up to go to Paradise, did you guys – because, like, some people – hell, I did this. Like, some people, you hit up someone, you talk, and then, you know, you only talk to them, and then you kind of go to Paradise. You know, who knows?

Has anyone even asked if – did Brandon and Serene, like chat at all i mean i have no problem if they did but they seem to have a rapport when they showed up but a lot of couples there's there's some rapport building prior to paradise like was that did you and greg kind of was it at that level or did you just kind of have some interactions like how how much rapport building were you two having if any at all, prior to Paradise? Yeah, so after I texted Greg and asked him if he was going on Paradise, we did not hang out at all afterwards. It was a couple of texts here and there just like,

are you going? Well, I'm thinking about going. And that was sort of like the conversation leading up to Paradise. But yeah, I mean, we had hung out in group settings with you and Natalie. We all were at the Super Bowl party at Revolve. And then prior to that, we had met at GovBall, but there was no plotting and scheming going into Paradise like a lot of couples do.

And what about from your standpoint greg like were you i mean what were your thoughts on victoria prior to paradise you know i mean i was always attracted to her but um we didn't have anything serious prior at all um i was in a relationship i was in and out of it with somebody overseas uh so that was like a confusing time for me um and i knew paradise wasn't going to be for me this year i knew um i just had so much more growing to do and me being in that relationship i had to figure that out for myself okay and so then victoria goes to paradise what what were you doing, like, then? Like, were you...

What do you mean? Well, she went to Paradise. Well, also, I heard that Johnny mentioned that after Paradise, you two spoke. Yes. Yeah. So what, like, did you reach out to Victoria at all, like, while she was filming? Or did you pursue her? Like, were you

thinking about like no I mean my relationship ended in the midst of paradise okay um and I just in the back of my mind I was like shit I hope she comes home single so you had Victoria on your mind god yeah yeah yeah no I mean but I I didn't know how to go about it you know i was just kind of waiting i was like you know what shit i'm gonna maybe text her and be like hey like drinks on me when you get back but of course like andrew got back he comes right to spring lake and hangs out with me for fourth of july weekend and he's like she's engaged and i was just like deflated and there was no communication after that i mean i wasn't going to reach out to her um why were you so deflated because i wanted that to be me okay so i i i felt a little i wasn't ready to go in paradise and being in that relationship

you know held out held back something special but like we we talk about it you know it's it's i don't as messy as like this all may seem like i'm really grateful how it happened because our relationship i think is really based on like the timing of it all like i wasn't i wasn't ready to be in a relationship with her because you know i was seeing someone else and we weren't able to explore that at all and she also wanted to go in paradise and I didn't want to do that so we both had to go through our own you know shit and by the time we it was just all timing that's all it is and so what was the reason that you like, how did you two talk after Paradise? Like, what was the reason for you to talk to Greg to let him know that you were engaged? So I had a conversation with Johnny and I was like, I just think because we're all going to be in the same circle.

Johnny got really close with Andrew and Andrew is Greg's best friend. And I was like, we're all going to be at events together. Like him and I, we did talk prior, just, you know, had an interest in one another.

And I thought, you know, I'm just going to reach out to Greg and kind of like, like, Hey, you know, this is kind of like what went down. And I hope that we can all still be in the same room and it'd be like

cool and i hope that you're happy and i don't know where you stand in your current relationship but like i'm happy for you either way and just like he was my friend before what did you say like i mean you wanted it to be you like what did you say to her in that moment um i mean i showed nothing but support i was i was i was genuinely happy that she was happy i was like hey you know like that's what you went on there for so like good for you you found somebody i mean i had no say in it what was i gonna say like no like let's see if like this is gonna work no not at all i was just like supportive of her being in this in my opinion like happy engagement after yeah and when i told johnny that i just felt a little uneasy about us all like potentially being in the same room together that i wanted to like clear the air with greg so we could all be cool

they also have mutual friends back home from jersey so i just wanted everyone to be a cohesive like cool unit and so he was totally on board for it he was like yeah like just wanted everyone to be a cohesive, like cool unit. And so he was totally on board for it. He was like, yeah, like if you want to have a conversation, I totally understand and kind of like tie up a loose end that maybe was lingering prior to me going on. He's like, go for it. And so I called Greg. We had this conversation. It was great. We didn't speak after that. I told Johnny aboutny about it was completely open with it and that was it that was the end of that all right let's get into uh your relationship with johnny because at the finale you talked about how it wasn't healthy it wasn't toxic and then And then Johnny accused you of, well, he accused you of cheating, but also suggested that this fit your narrative.

So let's just kind of go over timelines and your story. I think people, the only issue I have is that I feel like people are going to be like, there definitely was something with them before. But those people, you're not going to change their mind. But there really wasn't anything before i know it was just like hey you're going to paradise and he was like no it's literally what everyone it's literally what everyone fucking does on the show yeah they just figures out who's going who's going you going oh no okay well peace people do that before a party right you text all your friends to be like are you going to this event what is your vibe like for a wedding like you're like are you getting

an airbnb like people coordinate that's a normal thing to do exactly especially in the world that we're in let's just why why did you and johnny break up because i want to get into the relationship itself like yeah you know johnny talked it it seems like Johnny has acknowledged that you guys fought, right? But it seems like he, the way he talked, at least at AFR, he said like, well, he just thought you guys would just keep working on things. Like he wanted to get to AFR engaged. And you talked about how the relationship was unhealthy. So I want to have an understanding of what this relationship was like. I want people to have an understanding of what this relationship was like. I want people to be able to visualize, if possible, your relationship with Johnny. So

I guess, why in your words did you feel like you and Johnny broke up? So from the beginning, this is how it started. So back on the beach Johnny and I and you see this in the show where I'm like what are your career goals and you know I'm trying to understand kind of where he is in his life I'm pretty set in my career right now and I have you know the world ahead of me and not to say that he doesn't but I really wanted to like pinpoint where he was He's 25. I'm 29. So there was that age gap. And I mean, you can be 25 and that doesn't matter. Age doesn't really matter. But it does matter when I'm at a certain place in life and I want someone to also be there. You had some concerns or questions.

Yeah, some reservations. Some questions. Yeah, some questions that I just wanted to know okay so so going from there um when i initially asked shawnee what his job was he said that he owned a bar okay and um and i was like great you know he said he was doing real estate. He owned a bar. And then as time kind of went on, it turned into he managed a bar. When did you start finding this stuff out? So he did say he managed a bar on the beach. And I was like, okay, that was kind of like my first, huh, like light bulb that went off. And that's where their career goal question started happening.

Because I was like, okay, well, that's, you know, you did say you own a bar. Now you're managing it. What, like, where do you see yourself in five years from now? And I'm not shitting on anyone that manages a bar. I think that's a great life, whatever. You just wanted to know what exactly he did. Yeah, because then there was a discrepancy with the story and then from there when we got off the beach it turned into like he wasn't managing this bar anymore he actually was just bartending there and then the bar was

closed down so he he didn't have like a steady source of income which fine. We all go through like a period of time when we get off the show where we're not exactly sure what we're going to be doing. I experienced that. A lot of people do. But I just felt like maybe he wasn't being fully transparent. Gotcha. And was that frustrating? It was. Yeah. I mean, it's extremely frustrating thinking that you know one thing on the beach and I'm like telling somebody exactly what I want and where I'm at in life. And then coming off the show, I'm like, okay, well, this isn't what we discussed. mentioned that one thing you guys thought about a lot was you having to watch back Johnny's season with Gabby. So Gabby and Johnny. I'm curious, what conversations with Johnny did you have on the beach prior to getting engaged about that relationship? So I obviously hadn't seen his season because it wasn't aired yet. Walking onto the beach,

I had no idea who Johnny even was, which was also why I was so attracted to him because I was like, this is amazing. He doesn't have these shitty reputations that a lot of guys do off the show. He was just like a breath of fresh air. But I didn't know much. And when I did ask him,

he did kind of beat around the bush with it. I didn't really get a full story. It never was because looking back now that I've seen his season, he never divulged that information to me. Like what information? That he just was not at a place in his life to settle down and be married. And I think that was like his. So you had no idea that the conversations that he had with Gabby

about why he left were solely around his not being ready to get engaged? Absolutely not. No. And you found that out after you got engaged? Yes. How did that make you feel? I mean, it made me just feel like like lied to it made me feel like

I wasn't walking into something that I had full awareness about and I think when you're making a decision as big as what we did to get engaged you need all the facts in order to do that and I wasn't getting that from him and by all means like I am not perfect we all know that okay ah um but I am honest when it comes to stuff like that and

I am very transparent with what I want in a relationship and I've always been very open about where I'm at in life and what I want and I think that that I was that way on the show the entire time. So yeah, I don't know. It was, um, that was probably where things started to change when we first got off the show.

Gotcha. Cause like Johnny, Johnny also said, I think, I think he will even said at the finale and I'm sure he might have said it on these other interviews, that he didn't think he was good enough for you. And it sounds like in these conversations, I suppose I can see why he might have felt that way. But from your point of view, how did you handle? I understand where Johnny's coming from.

You're only there for three weeks. I'm sure time is limited to share everything about yourself but how did you address or try to address this you know discrepancy i guess and and where he was at i was like i'll be completely honest i was like i understand you were in a transition period in your life I was and I and he only even I mean I don't know what he'll say at this point but he used to tell everybody that I'd say this I don't care what you do never be too humble I was like you can drive fucking uber for all I care but like have a job and be able to, like, do something, you know? And even, like, coming off, you know, he had ambitions of wanting to do, like, his rap career. And I was, like, more than supportive of that.

I hooked him up with a producer in Nashville. And, like, we were going to, like, book a studio for him. a producer in Nashville and like we were gonna like book a studio for him I mean I wasn't shitting on him for not like having these like not having a set job right when he got off I was just like what can we do in order to like make this situation good for you because I want you to succeed and I want you to be the best person that you can be because I wouldn't have gotten engaged to him if I didn't see his full potential and who he was. Like he is a good person. And I just think, I don't know. How did he respond to that?

I mean, did that cause fights? I mean, like you talked about your relationship being toxic. Yeah. Like how did you guys fight? Like, you know, because this is all sounds relatively healthy, you know, like I don't, Johnny, I can understand where you're coming from. Like meeting someone you didn't know existed three weeks later, you're engaged and you chose to take that risk. But I can, yeah, I mean, it's, I guess I can understand the frustration. Did you feel like,

were you questioning who you got engaged to? absolutely and that was a conversation too that we had it was like i feel like you're a completely different person when we got off the beach he also was this like very secure person on the beach where he felt like great about himself and also too that's easy to feel that way when you are amongst you know 12 people and he was like i thought he was the best one there he was like the popular he was he was great and he still is great um but i think that that was easier for him because he was confined to a smaller space of people and he didn't feel like the outside pressures of things. And so he was just like this very secure person in himself that I saw and that's what I fell in love with

from the beginning. But when we did get off, that sort of changed. It was like outside factors started to play in and his insecurities did come out and like all of ours do. You're having these conversations with Johnny about his career, his passions. It sounds like you felt frustrated that he didn't, did he know what he wanted to do? I mean, when I met him that one time, seemed very nice.

He also talked to me about like maybe wanting to get into real estate. And he also talked to me about possibly like he he or he was a paramedic or he was doing that paramedic school yes oh he's doing that okay so like a bit all kind of just trying to figure it out yeah you know and at 25 that makes a lot of sense i mean i've i've but like you you were frustrated and then how did he respond to that? Is that what caused the fight? Yeah, I think I was trying not to be frustrated, but I was. And I think he could sense that. And I think the comment he makes about not feeling good enough, it was never me putting him down.

I think that that was just his own insecurity coming out because I did whatever I could to help him. And I constantly was saying, if you want to be a rapper, I'm going to put you with a producer. I'm going to blast you all over every social media that I have. So I was always supportive of whatever he did. If you wanted to be an Uber driver, go for it. I don't fucking care. But find something that you love and stick to it. And I felt very much like, well, I think I want to be a real estate agent one day. And I think I want to do this, which is fine. You're just trying to figure it out. But that's frustrating

for somebody who thought that they were engaged to somebody who already had it figured out. Yeah, that makes sense. Well but you mentioned your relationship was toxic can you describe your fights or how did when you guys started fighting what did it look like like yeah because like again like this all sounds like i understand your frustrations but johnny johnny seemed to want to what seems to me like the discrepancy is Johnny seemed to think that you guys should be working on things or you guys would be working on things or you guys got engaged, that's a serious commitment. And it sounds like you didn't. So I would love to understand why you didn't want to work on things even though you guys were engaged.

I would love to understand why you didn't want to work on things even though you guys were engaged. I did want to work on things at the beginning. I wanted to give it the time to see if it could really work outside of paradise. And I put effort into it. I wasn't just wiping my hands clean because it wasn't working in a couple weeks. But when things get toxic so fast, especially somebody, me, who's been in multiple toxic relationships before, the minute that I catch wind of that, I know what that looks like. I know what that looks like. And if I'm having issues a month and a half in of being engaged, not only being engaged, but meeting this person, one and a half months of meeting somebody, and it's already getting to the point where I'm yelling at him, he's calling me terrible names,

yelling at him he's calling me terrible names maybe i'm throwing a wine glass here and there ah whatever it's out there so all right uh when it gets that toxic that quick i'm not gonna stay yeah so when so was there a wine glass thrown yes how did that happen well well nick just being completely honest because i i want to take like ownership for what i did in the relationship because it wasn't all him and even though he may not have been completely transparent with me from the start like i was not a fucking angel yeah we got in a really really heated fight it was three weeks in we are at our first happy couple trip and um we were watching back his um season with gabby, one of his dates with Gabby, and he had a shaved face on the episode. Okay. And

he had a beard with me at that point. And he was like, gosh, I would, I look so much better with a beard. I wish I had a beard on this episode, or during filming. I relate. Yeah, right. Okay, everyone looks better with a beard. I wish I had a beard on this episode or during filming. I relate.

Yeah, right. Okay, everyone looks better with facial hair. Yeah. And he was like, they would have made me The Bachelor had I had a beard. I'm assuming he was joking. Well, I mean, there's truth to every joke. Sure, okay. Is what I'll say in that moment being his fiance

I'm like first off why are you saying that and second of all second of all no you weren't going to be the bachelor and not to be mean but I was top three in my season and I wasn't the bachelorette so they already have these things like pre-planned there wasn't going to be this big to do because now Johnny had a beard and he was going to be bachelor I'm sorry like it's his honesty no I get it sure right okay and he looked at me and he was like yeah coming from somebody who was known to be a homewrecker and in that moment I'm like you're supposed to be my person like who uplifts me and like doesn't use what the general public has said about me like you're supposed to be on my team and I was so hurt and frustrated.

I left. I walked outside. I called my best friend, and I was just bawling and crying because I was like, everyone else can say whatever they want about me, but the one person who is supposed to stick by my side and have my back just used that against me,

and it was so hurtful. And then the glass you know so then i come back inside um i'm kind of he he goes outside he calls one of his friends and he's like telling him about the fight that we just got into and he's like yeah and i called her a fucking homewrecker and she's like wigging out and i like overheard the conversation and i like opened up the door because we're at a happy couple and i threw a wine glass and it shattered at him or no just like in the outside just oh okay just throwing it so no one was at risk no okay no no one threw at risk? No.

Okay. No, no one's at risk. So you threw a wine glass. You just didn't throw a wine glass at him. No, I just threw a wine glass. I was just fucking pissed. And I was just like, are you kidding me? Which is disgusting. Is that a happy couple?

Yes. In LA? That was at a happy couple. We actually got a noise violation. Because that's how happy we were. And mind you, everyone. Wait, so someone called the cops? I don't know what happened, but apparently there was a noise violation.

And this is what I found out after we left. Gotcha. So one of the producers told you. They contacted the producer. Whoever booked the apartment. Right. Heck, you guys keep it down. Right.

And this was way prior to i don't mean to laugh i'm sorry no no and i just i want to be honest because like that is fucked up of me to do and i realized in that moment i even said to him the very next day i was like i hate myself for doing that like truly like it makes me emotionally even talking about it because i don't want to be that person and then i'm not that person but i knew that in that moment it was like we're not healthy we are so fucking toxic and like i don't want to be in this anymore and that was very very soon after we were that was your first happy couple yeah and then where'd things go from there down sure just a downward spiral after that because we wanted to make it work but then it's just like there's just some

things you just don't come back from there's like names that you just you know can't come back from and so johnny denied saying well i guess he denied saying any right anything because they didn't specify that he and i think ashley and jared just asked him a general did you say the word that they bleeped out he denied it right what are your how what's your response to that? Yeah, it's hurtful that he won't take ownership of what happened because I feel like I just want to take accountability for everything that happened in our relationship

because this doesn't fall on him. It was me too. This is 50-50. But he did say that. And in the context that he used it, he actually said, why are you being such a fucking cunt? And I said, are you kidding me? You cannot call me that. And he goes, I didn't call you that. I said you were being one. there's a difference and like any woman knows that's like the most hurtful thing you could ever say to somebody and whether he you know thought that it was like hurtful in the moment I'm sure he didn't mean to like really hurt me. Maybe it just like came out out of anger.

But the fact that he doesn't want to admit that is infuriating because we went to therapy about that. We talked to our therapist and he openly admitted to her. She said, can you see why this would be so hurtful to Victoria? And is there another way that you could have expressed why you were so angry with her? And he was like, his excuse was, well, I have a lot of British friends, so it doesn't mean the same thing that she thinks it does. I've never met any of his British friends, by the way. He's from Jupiter, Florida. All that aside, all that aside, he said that...

I'm sorry. So, anyway, all that aside, he did end up saying, I feel terrible for what I said and I wish that I could take it back. And I believe him. I believe that he wishes that he could take it back. I wish that I could take a lot of things back in our relationship too. But at the end of the day, what happened is what happened and we can't go

back. And there's just like you get to a certain level in a relationship where there is no turning back. And I just knew for me that like I was not going to stay in that. Regardless of if the world thought that I should be like working it out with this person. And I've had many conversations with Johnny over and over and over again about how I can't do this. I can't stay in this relationship. What did he say? He wanted to work on it. And I totally understand that. I think it was really hard for him to wrap his mind around

why I was so upset by those things because it was very minimized, especially him calling me the effing c word because he even downplayed it to the therapist and she kind of had to correct him and be like no this isn't right um so i i think that that was not i don't want to say his norm but maybe his communication style and his previous relationships that's worked for him. How many serious relationships has he had? Um, he has only had one other girlfriend besides me.

Cause I mean, it sounds to me like, you know, when you're, when I was younger and you know, you're taught that like relationships are important and you have to fight for them. And I get,

and I get my first relationship. I didn't, no matter what, I just, we just got to keep fighting. We just got to keep working on it. for them and i get right and i get my first relationship i i didn't no matter what i just we just got to keep fighting we just got to keep working on it it sounds like that was johnny's mentality of almost you know no matter what we have to go through like did he did he make it sound like these are like not big problems and like we just have to work through it kind of thing yeah no for sure he was like we can get through anything like this he even said that to the to the therapist he was like

she doesn't want to work on it and and she was like well can you understand why she wouldn't want to after being called certain names and he was like yeah but we can get through that and i think to him it was like he was just going to, but we can get through that. And I think to him, it was like, he was just going to keep pushing forward because that's what he wanted. And he was like, okay with that being our way of being in a relationship. And that's not healthy. Nobody should be in a relationship like that.

He doesn't deserve that. I don't deserve that. And we just weren't right for each other at the end of the day how many times do you guys have the breakup conversation i mean i can't even count multiple times over and over and over again uh natalie's infamous now infamous party johnny claims that shut up johnny said that that changed everything. That you went to Natalie's party and it seemed like everything was great according to Johnny. And then after that, that's when everything changed. What do you have to say about that?

What I have to say about that is if we had already gotten a noise violation at our first happy couple three weeks in, then we had already had problems going into Natalie's party. So for him to say- Were you engaged at that point? Going into Natalie's party? No. We were not engaged. We broke off our engagement three weeks after we got home.

My family knows that his family knew that our friends knew that. And at that point you guys were still talking like trying to work through things. Yeah. At that point, that three week period, I asked producers if we could get a couple of therapists because I was very much willing to work on it because I wanted to see, a couple of therapists because I was very much willing to work on it because I wanted to see, is this something that we can truly fix? So I said to him, I was like, we're not engaged, but I'm open to the possibility of seeing where this relationship can go if we get the appropriate amount of help. Sure. And then what happened after that? Obviously, you guys didn't work it out like where you know like where did where did things

just finally end you know how many like and i get the whole like i've been on johnny's side and i've been on your side and breakups of like can we just talk and we work through things and you you know you're like fine we can have we'll talk about it again where where was Johnny's mindset versus yours and where was it just like completely done? We're not working on it anymore. Please respect that I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. So leading up to that party, the party that he thinks was the total downfall of our relationship, he had called me a fucking cunt two days before I even got on a plane to leave to go to LA. So for him to say that the party was the reason, we had two days of arguing because he had already called me that name. After I left, I didn't really want to talk to him or hear him out anymore because he kept wanting to see, can this work? Can this work? And he did actually book a ticket to come to Nashville prior to me going to the party. And that was kind of like his last ditch effort of being like, hey, I want to come. Please, can we talk about this? Can we talk about this? Can we talk about this?

And I was like, okay, fine. I went to the party, even though he had already called me these names before. He gets to my house the Sunday that I left. Which party? Your party. Natalie's party. He went to LA? No, no, no.

He came to my house after the party. Gotcha. Anything, just to confirm, did anything happen at Natalie's party? Okay. We didn't even know that we were, I didn't even know she was going to be there. We didn't even talk. I mean, we barely spoke to one another. We had a conversation.

I mean, like towards the end of the night, but it was like very much. I was with Andrew, Trey, and Justin the whole time. We had a weekend to ourselves. You guys are friends. I was there Andrew, Trey, and Justin the whole time. We had a weekend to ourselves. You guys are friends. I was there. I know. It's just wild that this whole party. It's like we devised this plan to meet at this party.

It's like, no. I'm friends with Natalie. You're friends with Greg. Everyone's friends in Bachelor Nation, basically. Andrew was there. Justin was there. I talked to justin for two hours on the side of the pool and nobody said a damn thing about that yeah you did i did you did

you guys were chatting it out for two hours exactly so like everyone's just honing in on the fact that we were at the same party but like nobody else is talking about anything else that happened at the party which is fucking nuts and then when did you and like so after the party uh johnny he mentioned he went to nashville for a birthday party no no so he he came to nashville after that and that's where he said everything switched and my demeanor was off well i'm sorry but wouldn't your demeanor be off if you had just been called a fucking cunt three days prior i don't know i would i don't want to hang out with you maybe if you call me that i'm like yeah maybe i was a little cold because i didn't

like it and we were just at that point i yeah, I did know that it was over. But it was already over before that. Like, we were arguing so bad. And for him to come was like this last thing where we were like, okay, this is it. This is over. He did ask me if I would hang out with him on his birthday, which was a couple of weeks later, September 20th. And I told him no. And I was like, Johnny, we're not together. We shouldn't be spending time. I know breakups can be confusing

and messy, but we shouldn't be just like hanging out casually. Like we are broken up. Did you entertain it at least a little bit? Like when Johnny reached out or was it a hard no? It was a hard no that we were not going to be hanging out. He was with all of his boys in Nashville. They all hung out. I was in Nashville.

We did not see each other until he texted me and said, can we please have another conversation? And at this point, this was probably like our 90th conversation. And that's okay because some people need extra time for closure. I've been in that situation where I'm like, shit, maybe if I could just say this or say that, like it could change this person's mind. Or maybe if I could just get this off my chest, it would give me closure. So I was okay with that. I was like, yeah, come over. We can have a conversation. Well, he comes over with all of his bags packed.

And he has like a suitcase. He did come over? He came over to my house. And he had his like suitcase with him. Which I thought was a little bit bizarre because I thought we were just having a conversation. And he was like. Like he was staying over? Yeah.

Like he was going to stay over. and he had just left all the boys came over my house wanted to have this conversation it was a 45 minute conversation and i said johnny again this is over and i'm so sorry that like you're hurting and i'm hurting too right now but this is is done. And he said to me, he goes, well, can we just have one last night together? And I said, no. And I think at that point, he even said, he was like, I don't want to leave because I feel stupid to go back to Tyler and all of them because I told them that I was coming over here to work on things with you. And so at that point he left and like booked a hotel and I'm not sure what he told the guys. I don't think he told them anything, but he left and that was it. And I think in his mind, that's where the final

conversation was, but it was, we've had many a final conversations. That was just the one where I was like, you cannot stay here. And then when did you two start talking? End of September. Yeah. End of September timeframe. Who reached out to who? I don't know.

Did I reach out to you? I don't remember. Did you? Hmm. I don't think so. So you hit him up my memory serves me correctly i think you gave me a call yeah i did um i don't even know always what i said i think we we have always had like this platonic relationship where we would like call each other and be like,

what are you doing? How's it going? So I think I would just like hit him up and was like, hey, how are you? And then we just kind of caught up on life. And yeah, I didn't end up telling him that Johnny and I weren't together anymore. And what from there?

What would you say to someone who is frustrated that you moved on so quickly? I would say I get it. I could see how it would be hard for the outside world of you or the audience to see me and Johnny engage one minute and then me dating greg the next i think it's very hard for people to kind of put that together it's almost like whiplash i mean did you guys start dating right away no no because i then visited her nash um we obviously didn't go out anywhere you know i mean it was like a scary time. She just got out of a relationship. Um, there was a long interest in like, and he was really hesitant.

I was super hesitant. I didn't, I, after that, after we hung out for a night, um, I went back home and we had a conversation and we were like i was like listen like we obviously really like one another but i don't think that this is like good timing right obviously with everything that's going on um she agreed to it i agreed to it but there was you agree that it wasn't good timing yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we know we're not like, you know, delusional that, you know, it's not the best way to start a brand new relationship, you know, in the midst of everything, in the midst of it being aired and everything.

And that was hard. And because like there was like such a spark between us and it was just like so new and fresh and fun. And we just complemented each other so well. But it was like, well, hold on. Let's try to think about this rationally. People are not going to like this shit if we continue this. And she agreed with me.

She was like, this is super logical. I totally understand. But then we had, it was like, hours later 24 hours later we're we're like no i want to see you again yeah yeah it didn't last long okay yeah uh when and then when did how did rome happen so wait like didn't last long would you guys keep talking did you keep hanging out? No, we kept talking. We kept, sorry. Yeah, we kept in communication because, yeah, we had an interest in one another, but also too that we like didn't know before that if it was anything more than just friends.

Like we had an interest, but we were like, is this just like friends or do we like each other? Like what the fuck is this this and did you stay at her place when you went to nashville uh yes stayed for the night um but where did you stay what you slept on the couch nick mind your business no she slept on the couch i i had the i had the bed she slept on the couch um he actually did say that too he's like you get couched tonight yeah you get couched tonight um no but um honestly it was weird hiding out it was it was a weird fucking way to start like seeing someone in some sense and we also didn't know like what we were we didn't know how serious

this was gonna get we'd never been out in public before. Rome like changed everything. It was what, late October and we never had this planned. You know, like there was like a weird bump in like this right before that where it just felt very stagnant and it didn't really feel like

it was going past like where we wanted it to go. Like I think we both saw that it could be something good. And I just like I was on my way to the doctors and it was. He called me. I called her and like I was just like driving. I had an hour drive. I was going to Spring Lake.

And I was like, I really want to see you. But like I really want to actually take you out on a date. Like enough of like this like let's actually see if like me and you are going to be together i was like let's go to europe she's like i've always wanted to see italy and i'm like checking on flights like i pull over to the highway and i'm like like really really like rambling through like united the united app like first like flights out and then next thing you know there was like a thursday flight out to rome it wasn't like that bad and i'm like let's fucking

do this like let's get wigs if like it if like we actually like notice like people like seeing us but like it was so fun the first day like being able to just like walk outside together and there was no americans and and like we were just like walking that you knew until until this girl had to go see the coliseum you know she just had to i wanted to we were two blocks away from the damn thing and she's like we need to go see it next thing you know we're about to go online all of a sudden we see like a bunch of college girls like running by and we're like fuck yeah and what would you say to someone who says they went to rome they must have like that's too crazy to believe okay well if you go on bachelor in paradise and you get engaged in three weeks then like going to rome on your

first date isn't that crazy am i right i hear you it was honestly like it's such a unique and like fun way to like kick things off too yeah that was like our only way of really being able to go on a public date well so we thought um but in america if we did that then people would have seen us and we would have been burned at the stake it was also it was also so challenging because all of a sudden these videos are leaking and we're out to dinner and all of a sudden like you know my buddies are like holy fuck like there's like a tiktok of you guys and like i didn't tell anybody other than like my my best friend from back home and so like it it was really challenging because like we wanted to keep this so private to us and it looked anything but that.

It looked as if like we were almost like trying to be seen when in reality like, you know, I had my hat brimmed to my under my eyebrows like shades on. Like I legit didn't think anybody was going to notice me out there. All right. So let's just go through the timeline just for. I love a good timeline. Yeah. No. All right, so let's just go through the timeline just for- I love a good timeline. Yeah, no. So our first conversation of this is not working and I'm completely over,

this is completely over was August timeframe. And then another conversation after that at the beginning of September. And then another another the last conversation but for me it it was over when I said to him I can't do this anymore in August and September and then the final conversation where I think he needed to really process if it was over for him because he just needed extra time I think to like really absorb what was going on was September 20th right around his birthday um if that clarifies the whole timeline well I just don't I don't when Natalie wrote the read the text of you guys were on a break, that was in September.

September 5th. Yeah, I texted Natalie and said we were on a break and we weren't even communicating at that point at September 5th. Was a break kind of your way of if he really wasn't receptive to you saying I'm over this, like I can't be in this relationship was a break kind of a way of like almost compromising and like being like if he's not gonna admit that we're fully broken up will he at least admit to a break yeah and I think that that's like where the struggle was because I I knew it was over but for him I knew that he wasn't there yet. And so that was sort of like our way of, I guess, being in the middle of being like, this is a break. And he has even said it on multiple podcasts that we weren't even communicating at that

time. And I think maybe he was hopeful that we were going to work it out eventually or get back together. But I knew for me that it was over. And those conversations were had multiple times at the beginning of September. And then again, for him to really understand, I think, and to absorb that was his birthday conversation. So yeah and then greg and i started talking shortly after that at the end of september and then a couple weeks went by where we were like okay what is this what are we doing and then our first date happened in rome so i would say probably three to four weeks

well yeah we saw each other before that but it wasn't like like we're not like seeing other like people at that point we were never like okay it's just us now like we just hung out one time and then like Rome really like put us like in a position where we were like like this is real now it's like we didn't know if we were going to continue after that first time we saw each other in Nashville like Like we ended it after that night, like, ah, maybe this isn't like the best timing, but Rome really changed it for me. And then 10 days later, um, yeah, 10 days later you asked me to be your boyfriend, despite everything that was like coming out and like how scary it was in that moment. Like, despite everything that was like coming out and like how scary it was in that moment like i think like after that happened really despite of everything like we want to continue this like

i i wanted to continue seeing it out with her she wanted to do the same so after rome yeah fucking shit what it's just like so fucking stupid you're doing great no this whole fucking thing is stupid i'm just frustrated yeah yeah it must be exhausting i'm so fucking tired if i don't want to be with somebody and i don't mean to like be upset right now if i don't want to be with somebody because it is a toxic environment i shouldn't have to be with that person because the world wants me to at the end of the day i broke up with him and i'm so sorry that he's hurting but like i'm hurting too and like i should be able to move on and whether it's fucking three days or a month like i should be able to do that

i never cheated on Johnny and we had a conversation about it at our press event after the reunion and he even admitted he goes I know you wouldn't cheat on me but I think that he's just so upset right now because I did move on so quickly and I totally understand

because I would be hurt too Johnny said that he reached out Johnny said that you reached out to him prior to the finale and that he didn't take your call. Yeah. Why did you reach out to him? I wanted to reach out because I never wanted to escalate to this. I wanted to be able to have a conversation with him. We were in a relationship.

We were engaged. I just wanted to be able to have a conversation and say hey like what were you hoping johnny would say or do at the finale i wasn't when he was talking about your relationship like what would you what would yeah like what what did you want johnny to take accountability for at the finale i just wanted john Johnny to take accountability for the fact that our relationship was going downhill prior to Greg and I starting to talk. That's it. It was toxic. For the people who thought that you came across cold to Johnny at the finale, when you walked out, what would you say to that?

I totally understand. And i could have handled myself so much better and i look back and i regret that but at the same time i walked into a room where people were calling me a cheater or booing me and so i walked into an entire audience it was already completely against me without even hearing my story and my side of things. They just wanted to believe him and to take his side. And I get it. You know, he's upset and he's sad and I feel for him and I empathize with him. I just never got a fair shot walking out there. It was awful.

I was there. You can see Victoria look and smile because I was the one person to be like, whoo! Yeah. She walked out. I was like, hey. I got you. I was like, hey, girl.

Hey. But I also think the television element of this is so significant in terms of, of course, you're going to be carefully choosing your words. And the cadence and the way that you're talking is reflecting the fact that anything you say will be aired on national television. And so it probably feels like people are using that against you without actually taking into account the context you were when you snapped at tyler like what uh i don't regret that i regret a lot of things that night but i do not regret that also it wasn't the first time he interjected

no that was like the fourth time he'd done that. Right. He kept chiming in to a situation that he has no idea about, you know, and. What was he saying? He, he, I, I don't know. He, I wouldn't let him get in there. Um, but it's none of his business. It was between Johnny and I, and we were having a conversation and Johnny did did actually try to speak up and be like, okay, Tyler, relax. But it was none of his fucking business. I'm having a conversation with somebody who I was in a relationship.

Tyler, we weren't in a three-way, okay, buddy? So stay the fuck out. I hear you. Let's talk about you two. Okay, let's do it it what's different about this relationship you guys seem excited about each other why is this working you guys are obviously moving fast you have matching tattoos you went to rome why do you feel more confident about your relationship with greg despite it moving very quickly more so than your relationship with Greg, despite it moving very quickly, more so than your relationship with Johnny or any other relationship that you had, I guess. Yeah. I think

what has been the most telling about Greg and I's relationship is the way that he's handled this entire situation from start to finish. He's been patient. He's been understanding. He never pushed anything. He's always just been so supportive of me. And he's had my back 1,000% of the time. And I just couldn't ask for a better partner in it. He just truly, I don't know, he's just been so great. And also, too, we just are very open and honest with one another. The way we communicate, the way that we fight, because everyone fights, right? But we don't call each other names.

We don't scream at each other. We are like, okay, where is this actually coming from? Why are you upset? It's more of a conversation, an open conversation, he said she said you did this i did like yeah that it's it's healthy and for the people who think that greg and i are the most unhealthy people we actually work yeah and it makes sense yeah i mean i've myself been in my fair share of toxic relationships where i haven't had my most proudest moments either. But with her, her and I are really making it a priority to really focus on really communicating on a healthy level.

And it's just been working for us. I mean, it's not been nothing, but like it's as hard as it's been with all this shit and like, you know, having to like, because at the end of the day, it's sucked, you know, falling in love with someone in the midst of falling in love with someone. Like, you know, looking on my explore page and seeing, you know, her like kiss another guy and her profess her love for like another guy. But like, I've never wanted to focus on that. And it's just been about us. And it's been really healthy between us. And as hard as it's been, it's been in our relationship personally, it's been nothing but easy. What are some of the qualities where you feel like you get along because you're the same on something? And what are some of the qualities where you feel like you balance each other out really nicely or like have different approaches yeah what do you think yeah i think

you're funny um i think what works about greg and i is that we are very similar so like i think we understand what we need in different moments yeah especially like i don't even want to say we fight because it's not even like we whatever we bicker sometimes and and you know i think like that's just normal but we know what we need in different moments like you know we'll we'll give each other room we'll give each other space and i think that we've both been in situations where um we felt like we've been in like a codependent relationship and neither of us are really like that. And I think that we're really in a position where we're both really secure with ourselves, where we are just able to just talk to each other on like a healthy level. It's just the communication has been just really positive for us. Have you guys shared with each other your insecurities about yourselves or insecurities that you have had in relationships? And have you talked about how you guys can help each other out in that department? Absolutely. I mean, we have this conversation all the time,

about our inner child work and what type of wounds we have or Wounds we have. Yeah, wounds or like traumas like we have. And we just try to stay cautious of that, you know. Yours would probably be. Abandonment. Abandonment. And, you know, that means I'm not bursting out of the house or being like, well, you know, I'm not coming out with anything. Like, oh, well, I'm leaving.

Or threatening to leave the relationship. Yeah. It's just really staying cautious and like you know we're it's just a new relationship so we're really just trying to just yeah be careful as careful as we can we're trying to be mindful and intentional with one another because we both have come from such toxicity in both our previous relationships so now we just are hyper aware of everything with one another and on top of that i mean this week in general has definitely been the most challenging week for us and i think it would probably be one of the most challenging weeks

for like most new relationships in life you know for to just see like so many people like against us and like i've i've been through my shit with my season she's been through her shit so we kind of like both been through this in a sense but like it's hurtful for me it's been killing me how much this has affected her and it's been really hard to stay upbeat in in everyday life you know when this shit is like weighing over our heads but we're still making it work and we're still going to be together after this. Um, and we're still, we're going to figure it out. You going to AFR, how did that happen? And do you, are you like, yeah, why did you go? Um, so after Italy, um, obviously a lot of people started figuring, finding out about that. And, you know, one of the producers, producers called her, um, the week after and they were like, how, how do you think that he would feel about coming out?

Um, and she's like, he would never go for it because at the end of the day, their breakup had nothing to do with me. And I, me going out there made it seem like that in a, in a sense, you know, it, it turned into her and I me going out there made it seem like that you know in a sense you know it turned into her and I but when she called me the week after uh her and the producers talked I immediately heard in the tone of her voice she's like so I talked to this producer and I was like you got some balls if you if I if you if I like believe that you're about to ask me what you're about to ask me and she just like you know started laughing and at first we were really reluctant because like this is we care about this relationship so much we just want to protect and we wanted to protect it but me and her continue to grow to continue to grow every single

day and I mean I was there was no question towards the end. And like with all this stuff coming out that I was just like, I just need to support her no matter what I'm going out there. And he knew what I was walking out into. Cause we had kind of caught wind of what Johnny was going to be saying. And, you know, to have that accusation against me, he just wanted to support me and be there. Yeah. And it was so difficult because like, I didn't know I was going out on stage until like four hours prior. We really wanted this to happen in the back. I didn't want

this to happen in a full audience because like, I know how it's perceived, but there was, you know, they were really making it as if like, there was like really no way around it i mean i understand it's like hard to film like in a in a goddamn trailer so i i really there was no question for me that i wanted to support her it was just about how how we can do this and i i knew what she was walking into and i wanted to be, I wanted to do it with her. I didn't want her to do this alone. Makes sense. Yeah. Well,

we have texting office hours ready to go. We need your guys's help giving some relationship advice to our callers. And then after the call, we will talk with you guys quickly about what's next for you guys. Is there love in the air? Are you guys in love? Are we saying the L word? What's next? What do you guys see for yourselves in the future?

And then we'll wrap up. Let's do it. Sounds good. Alright, let's go. Texting office hours. How's it going? Good, how are you? Good, what's your name? Tori. Tori, how old are you? I'm 32. How can we help? So, I'm calling. I've been

in a relationship just under a year. Like all relationships, trust is very important. My boyfriend and I talk about the importance of having it, building it. But ironically enough, I'm calling in for some advice. He's gone through my phone a couple of times. What he has found is not cheating emotionally, physically. There's no infidelity. He just didn't like what he saw. I do have context behind that, but I kind of guess I'm looking for advice going through your phone in general, like just how big of a red flag is that? And then ultimately maybe I need to cut off past flings, exes, relationships,

people prior to my boyfriend, because he just didn't like what he found. How long have you guys been together? So we met about a year ago. So like officially it was probably the beginning of the year where we became boyfriend, girlfriend. We've said, I love you, et cetera. Feel free to ask questions or anything like that. Cool. Yeah, I like this. This is cool.

How did you know he went through your phone? Sure. So the first instance happened back in the summer. We were on vacation. We had gone out to dinner. Back hotel bar, and ironically enough, drinking had been involved in both of these instances. Did the DoorDash order.

I go up to the hotel room. I leave my phone with him. He bangs the door down. He's like, I'm sorry. I was scrolling through your phone. You have all these unnamed numbers. I was just looking for DoorDash confirmation. Who is this and what is this message about?

Okay. So that was the first example. What was the message? Were you getting people's numbers? No. So that's the irony is this is a person from my past. He randomly was just saying, hi, how are you? How are things? And I just merely exclaimed his response and I didn't say anything else. And this was a while ago, though. This was months before we had even started dating. So all the examples he had found were before we had ever started dating. He just didn't like seeing them. So this was pretty deep in terms of the text messages.

Like the DoorDash confirmation was not going to be from months ago. Right. This was a text from February and this DoorDash confirmation was not going to be from months ago. Yeah. Right. This was a text from February and this DoorDash order was July. So I was. Oh my. And I'm assuming you text like normal people. Like. Right.

Every day. Right. Of course. I mean, he's one of my nine pinned at the top of my grid. Gotcha. And what did you say? I told him who it was. And then he actually reacted by saying, you know what? I don't even

care. I don't want to hear who it is. And he just felt horribly uncomfortable and he hated what he saw. Did he apologize for going through your phone? Not necessarily. He was like, you just had all these messages in here. Sorry. It was one of those. You had all these messages. I'm sorry. I saw what I saw. So I'm sorry you made me mad was his apology? Yes. Okay. When was that?

That was this summer. And what's been going on since? Kind of a lot. I mean, we've adjusted our relationship with drinking, which is hugely important. We try to communicate and be more open with each other. But ironically enough, that landed us in the second instance where we'd gone out for a few drinks. And when i woke up the next morning i found out a week later that while i was asleep he just this time blatantly took my phone used my passcode went through it again scrolling this time it was like purposeful um it was purposeful last time if you look for it you're gonna find it that's oh yeah if you look for it, you're going to find it. That's a good point. Yeah.

If you look for it, you're going to find it. So again, though, I have never cheated on him emotionally, any of those things. And I guess that's where I'm stubborn is like, so what he did find, it makes me pent up with anxiety because I had old messages. I had a past before I met him and there were guys in my phone on do not disturb from over a year ago. And that's who he came across. So now he's like, who are these guys you keep on DND? And why are they not deleted? You need to delete your messages. You need to do this. Why are they still texting you? Well, you don't need to do anything. And no man should be telling you what to do specifically in a relationship. The fact that he went through your phone shows that he has his own insecurity and his own trust issues. I don't think that you're necessarily giving him a reason to feel that way.

Seems like he kind of just has his own issues with that is what I'm hearing at least. And he's also trying to make you feel bad about it. Right. So it definitely made me pause because these were moments from my past. And to just be told like, so you're saying you don't delete these messages? Are you keeping these guys around?'m like i've had relationships off and on for like 12 years at this point in my life like yeah i can pull someone from my contacts if i wanted to yeah right how old is this guy um he's 29 okay so he's younger than you yes okay do you do you feel like that plays a role in his confidence or security with you?

So I've thought it a little bit. I feel like he's like a words of affirmation guy. He's like, you're so powerful. You're so strong. You're so successful. I definitely do know that I've had a lot more serious relationships than he has, where in fact, his ex did go back to her ex. So I could see why. I mean, i get why trust is important regardless see i was interesting i was like am i just spinning right now with this situation but i ultimately hate that my phone was gone through right yeah i mean like still trust is important and he chose not to trust you right you know and to still not actually find something, I was like, just kind of at a loss. And he told me a week later. you know, dating for the first time and be like, this is your first date. This is my first day too. I guess we don't have to go over anything we've ever done ever with anything. But yet so

many of us have this mindset of like wishing our partners didn't have a past. And so many other people just have a hard time like dealing with that. But like that speaks to their, you know, confidence or lack thereof. And to say that they want trust in a relationship they have to give you their trust you know and he hasn't he hasn't given you their his trust he he's one of those people who expects you to like you know you have to earn my trust and he has this he has this in a he has that idea in his head and he thinks you know the problem with saying to yourself well the people i'm dating have to earn my trust it's like fine but like well well how do you go about that they

have they then they make up these excuses well i have to validate that then and that's how they justify going through your phone and things like that because like well until i can verify that i can trust them then i shouldn't trust them and And they have this whole warped sense of justification of what they think trust is. But it's not healthy or okay. But more importantly, that's the thing, it's just not healthy. He violated a boundary.

He chose not to trust you. And now you're stuck defending yourself for something you didn't do. And it's a winless battle because you're just like, you know, you're on the defensive. And, you know, there's nothing more damaging. I think there's a few things more damaging in a relationship than having to constantly defend yourself for things you're not doing. Which is ironic because I am told very quickly that i'm defensive like i was asked why am i defending these guys in my phone and again it's like one minute it's like you need

to explain yourself i'm here to listen the next minute it's like tori you snap back you're defensive so it's like i am defensive because i don't know what i did in a sense yeah so what what are we going to do about i mean he's still your boyfriend you're you what I did in a sense. Yeah. So what are we going to do about that? I mean, he's still your boyfriend. You're apologizing in a sense for being a catch. Yeah. You know, it sounds like that's what it is. You know, at the end of the day, I think people are going to reach out. It's just there has to be trust.

And that's something he has to figure out on his own. I don't know if it's, you know, he has to go through therapy with his, you know, past trauma, whatever happened with his ex, but that's a him thing. You know, that's not you. Right. And I'm a huge advocate of therapy. Like I joke, my therapist is on maternity leave. So this comes at a perfect time. And we do talk about it. And again, like I understand the sheer importance of it. It's just, yeah, it's definitely been interesting because the defensive mentality is used with my responses quite often, which is also hard. What's going on with your boyfriend now?

Where do we go from here? That's a good question. What do you want? We're definitely in a roadblock. I think this just brought out a lot of maybe smaller underlying disconnects with our compatibility and relationship in general. And I did ironically find this as a time to just be very vocal and open. And it was reciprocated that maybe there isn't like, it's not this, it's a lot of other things. And I think the lack of trust in the going through the phone just kind of amplified a lot of it. i'm not actually sure what would be reasons for why

do you want to stay in this relationship i can't really come up with any um and i run and yeah and being apart for thanksgiving and the holidays it distance isn't making the heart grow fonder um and i've been on the other side of it so should we should we just break up with him oh i was like tis the season um yeah no tis the season well how do you want to go but like it sounds like you want it sounds like you want to end the relationship yeah yeah it's definitely it's definitely becoming a more and more prevalent feeling um again i think just too with like the lack of trust and the going through the phone like he realizes how hurtful that was to me so it was kind of that shared with some of my other needs that I see in a

long-term serious relationship that I voice to him so it's kind of like a chance to maybe step up or step out but I don't like to waste time me neither well there's nothing you can do i mean as far as the trust and going through your phone that's not like a stepping up part you know like that's him not doing that anymore that's more of a and that's not something you can fix overnight with him like that that violation has been done so only time can heal that wound for you to realize that he's going to handle himself differently in a similar situation. So if you want to ignore it or forget it or set it aside, you're just going to have to let time pass and hope that down the road when he's feeling insecure or he's feeling less than or something triggers him, he doesn't use that as a justification

to go behind your back and violate your boundaries and things like that. So you're going to have to decide whether you want to take that risk. If there's other things you want him to do and like step up, like, yeah, you can communicate that and see how quickly he responds. But like, I think before you have that conversation with yourself, you just have to do yourself, is it really worth it to you to like, do you really see him doing that? Like, I just asked you why, what are reasons you just have to do yourself is it really worth it to you to like do you really see him doing that like i just asked you why what are reasons you'd want to stay with him and you didn't come up with anything so like why aren't we just breaking up with the guy right so i it's

coming yeah how are you gonna go about doing that again like even just over the last week since i found out and we were apart, like we don't feel like a couple that we used to act and feel like. So I think it is just, it's fizzled and he has all this travel coming up and he had never traveled since I met him and he wasn't with me for Thanksgiving. And I don't think he'll be with me for Christmas. So it's almost like a long time coming.

Are you guys like not in the same city right now? No, we are. We were not over the holidays. And again, just like like not in the same city right now no we are um we were not over the holidays and again just like being back in the city having been apart i had reached out to see when we would be together again and it has just kind of lingered so do you think he suspects that you this might be coming he does i have some personal family drama going on too so he just tells me he knows i have a lot going on and he hopes it's not him. And it's a mix of him and my other family stuff. So I would say instead of letting it fizzle,

make sure there's a clean break. If there's anything I've learned, make sure that it's set in stone and you let him know just because you're going to want to move on and date other people and you don't need the backlash of him being like well you said this so you did that you need to end it sooner rather than later versus just dragging it out yeah and i understand it's probably scary also yeah you know the thought of being alone but like you're doesn't seem like you're at you're not at peak happiness are you like you should you should be that with your person yeah so like you shouldn't be settling then if you're not

right and i have a new puppy so he keeps me there you go yeah i suspect yeah so that's good i suspect when you sit down with him to end the relationship he's going to be upset and i suspect that he will ask you a bunch of questions and he won't handle it well but just as i've said before it's okay like it's okay if he's mad at you and he's gonna try to make you feel like a bad guy that's fine right you know just it's i think you're i think you just try to simplify it too don't get into the weeds just if you want to reference hey listen like it really bothered me when you did this but like be careful about pinpointing it on one little thing you know because you know people have a tendency of like downplaying that one little thing where it's just

like well you know you're gonna you make it all about this one thing. And like, you, you can't forgive me. I messed up and blah, blah, blah. I think you just say, you can reference it and just say like, ultimately it just made me feel like you don't trust me and I'm not doing anything wrong. And I don't constantly, I don't want to be in relationship where the person, it's not easy for them to trust me. And it just doesn't seem easy for you where the person, it's not easy for them to trust me. And it just doesn't seem easy for you to do that. And you've given multiple examples why. And if you want to go into other things of I'm not getting what I need out of this relationship, I would just quickly state those and just kind of cut it off. I would your like very finite talking points and stick to those.

I also feel like maybe framing this as like the difference between the diseases versus the symptoms of like him going through your phone was a symptom of the underlying issue that like he has a rejection narrative and like hasn't worked through his whole, like the way things went down with his previous relationship. And so like making sure he can't just like say like, we can cure this we can fix this symptom and like really making it clear like no like there's this underlying thing that is not going to be fixed immediately and like it's impacted me too much it's not just about the phone yeah also i'm curious like would

what do you think he would do if you went through his phone because obviously it sounds like breakup is the move here the only redeeming quality i'm seeing is just if he maybe thinks that that's like part of being a relationship is like openness in that way and so he views it as like being weird and private for not wanting someone to go through your phone so it's funny because he said how would you feel if you saw those messages on my phone but i just politely right reminded him like i would never feel the need to look like as i wouldn't i felt again i felt defensive i was like emails facebook messages like you want my high school diary in my closet box like i don't i don't know what i don't know how we're gonna also it's just like, are you saying, have you never text messaged a woman prior to us meeting?

Right. I think you got this. I think ultimately, you know what you need to do. And I think you should just do it. Do it. Yeah. Do it. If you were looking for a blessing, you have it.

No. My sweet friend. They're like, Tori, it's the classic. This just feels toxic. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's okay for you to leave a situation that you don't think is healthy. It is. Absolutely.

Right. 1,000% it is okay. Yeah. I don't think you should text him that though. So unfortunately, there's no text to draft. Yeah. No, no,

no. But maybe you could give him that. We needed to talk. Yeah. How do you like this text message? We're done. Yeah. It's over.

Bye. No, don't do that. What can you do it? Do it tonight. She's like, ah, well,

what? Yeah. But what, like what, what I don't understand understand like do it now literally do it why like i you're you have a it's like jumping in the pool kind of rip the band-aid off whatever it is just just do it of course because i know i'm letting it linger yeah the longer you let it linger like the uglier it gets and there's gonna it's gonna he's gonna have tears

and cry why are you doing this to me and all this to, he's going to have tears and cry. Why are you doing this to me? And all this stuff. And he's going to make you feel bad. And, um, and just, I think you just stay calm and say like, ultimately, I just don't think we have a healthy relationship. And I just, I just don't want this. And I don't want someone who's going through my phone and I don't want to be made to feel like I'm doing things wrong when I'm not like, I work really hard on myself. Like my character matters to me like and if i don't want to like it's it's just not the

type of relationship i want to be in and i'm sorry right and if he gives you the i'll change i mean i think you just i mean ultimately you just say i just i just think we should end it it doesn't, you know, and maybe you will, but like change takes time that you're just, you can say, and I don't have time.

I don't have time. Preach. So that's what I would say. Okay. All right. Well, good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Yeah. Good luck. Not tonight. I don't know why. Why not? No. don't know why because tomorrow will be today soon you're right but she just needs to mull it over it's all right take a minute all right well when you do let us know how it goes but don't don't drag it out no all right i want an update in a week. Yes. Yes.

My future self is ready for the update. All right. All right. Take care. Good luck. Good luck. Thanks so much. So what's next for you kids?

Well, he asked me to be his girlfriend. Congratulations. There it is. How did that go down go ahead gregory it was the most romantic day of the year halloween yeah it was actually funny just because like we both um we don't love halloween neither of us um and i don't know i kind of just like, I was putting it on the shelf for like two days. And I was a nervous fucking wreck. I guess I was acting weird all day. Super weird, all day.

I was stressed. I didn't know like how to go about this conversation. I felt like I was in like middle school again, you know? Like I didn't know what to do. But I don't know why I found this to be like the moment. But like her cat escaped outside and like we're like looking for this damn thing for like 15 to 20 minutes underneath like the deck. I'm like meowing underneath for it to like come. We eventually bring it inside

and I'm like chugging my drink. I'm like, oh my God, I need some. An Aperol Spritz. No, that was a whiskey neat. That was a whiskey on the rocks. You need to stop lying. And she was up just dancing and she was.

Okay, that's fine. She was on the couch next to me and i don't know i kind of just like blurted it out i was like so will you be my girlfriend no come on i was like give me come on come on give me more props than that it was okay it was a little smoother so will you be my girlfriend no no no no no no no no first, I look at his drink. And I was like, maybe he took two sips of mine. And I look at him, and he's gone. I was like, oh, it's like you're chugging your drink.

What's going on? I'm like, no, you're just drinking it slow. Yeah. And then he was like, he's like all restless on the couch. I just had to do it just because it was literally in my mind for like 48 hours i was like i i knew that that was like important to her i think like we're both old school in a sense like where we're like communication like is key in that sense like we want to we wanted that um title and like it just like wasn't like assumed at that point um we knew that like we had strong strong feelings for one another and it was that night where i was just like i just have to say

this i was like i don't even care how it comes across and i just kind of like blurted out will you be my girlfriend and she said yes and i was like well good because i am yeah yeah or what i told her i was like yeah because i'm falling in love with you and that's Halloween Halloween are you still falling or no

I'm completely in love with her head over heels in love with her I love you I love you too so cutie obviously you guys are moving I love you. I love you too. So cutie. Love. Obviously, you guys are moving at a fast pace. Yes.

Faster than the public would like. And that's okay. Oh, I got a question. Yeah, you said at AFR that you don't care if everyone hates you. Is that true? Of course I care if people hate me and't care if everyone hates you. Is that true? Of course I care if people hate me and I care if people hate us. I want everyone to love us, but obviously that's not always going to be the case. And I hope that they grow to see our relationship and how much we really do care for each other. but i did say that because i just felt like attacked in that moment and i regret saying that of course i care i love i love our fans and like i love everyone so

a part of me doesn't care because we're still gonna be together whether you like us or not i know you're saying like you you care i mean i care but it's just like, I want people to like me, but I'm, I'm still going to do what I think is right for me. Um, and, and hope and hope that they like me. Right. Yeah. I hope you guys like us. I mean, how, where, what, like next steps.

Yeah. Next steps. You keep looking at me. You want me to take it or something? Are you guys like, are you, when you live in new york you live in nashville is that have you guys talked about relocation yeah yeah we've spoken about it um it looks like i mean we're kind of already in the process but it's nashville for us um you're gonna be moving to nashville for now yeah wow yeah okay yeah. I think that's the

step that we're taking right now is moving in together. Family planning? Yeah. I got to ask the relevant questions. Nick is like the Catholic church during marriage prep. He's like, what birth control are you using? Family planning in terms of us or meeting each other's families.

Have you met each other's families? He just came home to Boston to meet my family. And they love him. It was great. I loved them. And that's so important to me, getting along with each other's families. I just have such a close-knit family that I want her her to be like super involved with them and like i want to be able to like love hers and like vice versa but exactly yeah you're turned into a little jersey girl

aren't you um but no i mean i'm meeting her parents um in a couple weeks and then she's coming home to jersey with me for christmas She's going to be my mom, my sister, my brother, my sisters, and my nieces and nephews. I'm excited. Did you ask for our parents' blessing? I'm just kidding. What? Sweet tooth.

We both want that in life. Do you think, as you sit here today that you're each other's person? Yes. Yeah, she's my person. I haven't felt this. I don't want to say content's the wrong word because that just seems boring. But I think there's like a certain like i think beauty with like being like content with someone and like just like be able to just like sit in a room with someone for

we could just be in the same room for i think days on end and really not get sick of one another and we're growing day by day and i um i see it going that route. I want that and I know that that's important to her and I want to be able to take that step with her. I'm going to cry. It's fine. Everything's fine. All right. Well, I mean, I think we covered it it all I'm happy for you guys I'm you gonna be okay yeah no it's fine everything's fine

any final thoughts you want to leave us with Victoria I just hope and pray that you know one we can sort of get through this because it's been really really really tough and I think people just think we're going about our everyday lives being like, fuck everyone else. But it's really hard.

You did kind of say that. Well, you know, we say things we don't mean all the time, right? No, but like we are taking this like very heavy and we do want to enjoy each other. But we also don't want to like put out too much right now about our relationship. And so it's a very delicate dance but I just hope moving forward people do get to see why we have fallen in love with one another and our relationship and I just hope that I don't know I just I'm happy and I hope that people can see that and resonate with that. All right.

And if they don't, it's going to be fine either way. I feel like, I feel like you're going to have plenty of fans. Well, yeah. We'll see. Family,

not fans. There you go. Well, thank you guys for coming. Thank you for being so vulnerable especially you victoria i know this wasn't easy you almost didn't come yeah yeah talk her off that one yeah uh i get it you know um it's a tough situation and hopefully everyone involved can heal and and be okay but uh on this show, we definitely think that it is okay to leave relationships that you don't think are healthy.

Oh, and one more thing. I truly wish the best for Johnny. I really, really do. I want him to find his person as well. And despite everything that has happened with us, I just wish the best for him moving forward. I really do. Well, we'll just end on that. Thanks with us, I just wish the best for him moving forward. I really do. Well, let's end on that. Thanks for listening, guys.

Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. We are back on Thursday for Going Deeper with Katie Maloney from Vanderpump Rules. Won't want to miss that. What else are we talking about as well? We'll be talking some Black Friday shopping,

Pete Davidson, Emily Redikowski continuing to develop, Kendall Jenner, and Devin Booker broken up again. Is it real? We can even maybe hit some Julia Fox. Who's to say? Love that. All right. Well, we'll see you back on Thursday.

Thanks for listening. Go tell your friends, subscribe, rate, review, all that fun stuff, and be kind to one another. Just be kind. Go tell your friends, subscribe, rate, review, all that fun stuff and be kind to one another. Just be kind. Spread love, not hate. Bye.