The Viall Files - E51 Ask Nick - Sex Scenes, Playmates, and Porn Stars, Oh My!

Episode Date: October 14, 2019

This week Nick is joined by friends Jessica Hall and Sam Gutstadt to answer listener questions about sex and dating. We talk to someone whose boyfriend is messaging porn stars, a nurse in the middle of a love triangle, a woman whose ex shows up to family functions, and someone who’s getting letters from her ex. Stop being the cool chick! Send your questions to [e-mail] to get on the show. THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: ANCESTRY: https://www.ancestry.com/podcast ROTHYS: https://rothys.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi. I just felt like mixing it up. I don't know. I always start it the same way. So I figured I'd say hi. Hi. I don't know. Welcome to another episode of Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick. This is Rochelle. Hello. A fun episode of Ask Nick, I think. I don't know. Yeah, you mixed it up a little bit. I don't know if you can mix it up. I know we've had, obviously, Suge. Yes. Suge's going to come back. She's been really busy. She's also-

Has a new man, I heard. Well, I don't know. She's been hanging out with a person person i've seen less of her i don't know if we're allowed to she's she's getting it i don't i don't even know about that i just know that um we've i've been replaced a little bit uh which is great um but do you feel bad about it no why would i feel i feel very no because i've been replaced. I'm joking. I know. It's good. But in all seriousness, Sugars is going to return at some point when she has some free time.

She's been very busy, and busy is great, because she's very... She's been busy. ...successful. But we are going to have, from time to time, Ask Nick, mix it up,

have some... My friends will pop in, and we'll all ask some questions. My friends Sam and Jess, we'll get to know them a little bit more when we get to the question part. Both moms, both married, have a lot of their own interesting stories, especially I think maybe, maybe Jess. Because?

I don't know. What? Well, I mean, well, Jess, Jess was in Playboy back in the day. I don't know if that makes sense. She could be the most boring person in the world. I've met her. I know she's not. But I think certainly that gives you a lot of life perspective.

And it's certainly, I guess, against the norm. And Jess was in Playboy not too long ago. But certainly I think we've become far more progressive as a society and accepting of things like that. Yeah. And, you know, that came with a little bit more judgment even, say, 10 years ago. I don't know exactly when she was on it, but I think it'd be fun, you know, from time to time to bring in some people and, you know, we'll ask some questions. So Jess and Sam will be joining us and it'll just be a lot of fun. And I think we'll have some of our previous guests

from time to time pop in with Ask Nick. Maybe Rumor might come back. I was talking to her about it. A lot of people have been asking for Rumor to come back. Also, a lot of people have been asking for updates on the callers. So we're working on that. We might have an episode just of updates.

Yeah, yeah, we'll sprinkle it in. So we're working on that. We might have an episode just of updates. Yeah. Yeah. We'll sprinkle it in. Rochelle told me she had a massage story. I'm putting her on the spot.

I don't know about you guys listeners, but I love Rochelle. No. Life stories. My life's a mess. No, we're not. I think your life is not a mess. Compared to what? Yeah, I guess so.

Okay. So I wanted to tell you the story because I want you to tell me if you think i'm crazy i don't think you're okay thank you so okay i had i don't get a lot of massages and i do you do oh at whole foods fucking great but are those real massages best how long do you sit there 30 minutes 30 minutes at whole foods that's great well let's continue well i got this gift certificate so i went and it was like this big guy you know i know and were you excited when you walked in yeah i was having this conversation with a girl that i went on a date with and i'm like listen i'm not saying you are gonna no one's assuming that some porno is gonna to happen when you get a massage. But if someone, if you're like, I don't care.

If I go to massage, I'm like, give me the best person that you have. I don't care if it's a guy or girl. I really don't care. I feel fine. Yes. But if a hot shit walks in, I don't want to think a porno is going to happen, but I'm like kind of excited. Kind of fun.

Yeah. Right. So hot guy walks in. So, and it was like this most the most incredible massage but also i don't have a lot of massage experience so i'm like okay this is just how massages are i was like transported to another planet so anyway i just went back yesterday it's been like a year since i've got and what a massage and he goes you're not wearing your glasses when i walked in i was like he noticed but how did he remember that and then he was like

okay i forgot to tell you this first time he was massaging my chest which i didn't know they did that not my boobs my chest but he goes you're tight here it's because of heartbreak oh god he said that he said how old is this person i i think he's like late 30s oh okay so he's like just a totally young man youngish what'd you say did you laugh or were you just so like whatever you say man i clocked it was like that is bizarre and also weird and from heartbreak so then yesterday he goes your chest is still so tight and he was like you're still just as awesome as i remember you and then i'm like are we in love or is this a situation he's just making me feel like he remembers me and he doesn't or also i mean the glasses thing you have like you look great glasses you look he liked my you look no you look great in glasses you look noticeably different without glasses yeah it's

also great yeah but there is it so like i personally knowing that when the first time i saw you without glasses like oh yeah it was a noticeable thing yeah i i believe that to be a sincere observation on his part. Yeah. So next steps. So then I was like, I asked the woman for his business card. And it just says his first name. So there's nowhere to go. But I think, is it the same situation as like with strippers or baristas where when someone is providing you a service, you just automatically feel like they like you,

even though they're just doing their job? maybe there's a little bit of that like his job is to be nice and compliment and if he's a pretty good looking guy yeah i'm assuming any girl yeah he uses it and every girl's like i mean he like yeah he knows that i'm my he's in touch with my heart but also everyone's had their heart broken. So that line probably works. But I also like, I don't know this guy. And I think some guys are like, who knows? Like how they, I, I wouldn't use that power so willy nilly. Oh, if you were a masseuse.

Listen, I've been accused of flirting and I don't think I'm flirting. Right. So there is that too. Right. But if I, i'm also aware when i do lay it on so to speak so what i'm saying is he's like that's a line i mean that's that is a fucking line i mean he's rubbing your chest yes like not your boobs but on top of your boobs like i'm sorry but if some girl was like rubbing slightly above my crotch like it's still it's

not nothing right like it's not like she's like yanking on it but like she was like rubbing right like right above my hips and then telling me about like describing like stiffness and and oh no it's totally meaningless it's part of the massage uh yeah that's not nothing and then he delivers that line right there and he's like you're just you're so awesome just as i remembered listen it could be it totally could be bullshit but i think you should shoot your shot but there you do is this massage so great how much would you think the massage is the actual massage or he's like pretty good but also no he's really good okay could you live without the massage oh if i ruin everything yeah like you ask him

oh that's a good point probably not i don't want to ruin that i think you should go for it the fact that his first name is on that yeah totally like that's not stopping you how would i ever find him oh come on it's 2019 you know he works you know his first name Next you go in there like, are you on Instagram? Come and invite him on one of your stand-ups. Go in for another massage and shoot my shot. It's an expensive endeavor. What do you just like afterwards you get done, you're getting dressed. How do you feel about happy endings?

No, no, no, no, no. No. Have you ever watched a massage porno? No. Never? You've never even? I'm not a big porn girl, to. No. Have you ever watched a massage porno? No. Never? You've never even... I'm not a big porn girl, to be honest. I could pretend.

I didn't ask if you were a porn girl. I'm just saying, have you ever seen one of those like... Is that a common scenario? I think the random massage that... There's plenty of content if you like that we're gonna have to delve into that check it out tune in for some great questions with me sam jess and rochelle what's up sam Sam and Jess?

Oh, hello. Sam, I have to admit, I don't know if I probably know how to pronounce your last name. Well, the actual, like, if we were in the old land, it would be Gutstadt. But I just say Gutstadt. Gutstadt. Mine's really difficult. Hall. Got it.

Sometimes I get that wrong. And I know Sam and jess through well i know just through sam and i knew sam through actually my old my old boss just meeting people and i just thought they'd be great people to to have on they're uh successful married women with kids and with you and i i've had conversations with both you you've you've lived lived full lives and yeah you know you've had uh some interesting dating stories and we all get perspective from dating so i thought it'd be fun to have you on and and answer some of our fan questions i mentioned to our audience just

that you did pose for playboy i only bring that up because i think that's fascinating and it offered also gave you perspective and And I'm assuming when you were dating, it also played a role into your dating life. And so much about our questions we have in dating is things about our life, whether we feel judged or not judged by our partner or our families and things like that. And I thought it'd be really interesting to have you have that perspective as someone who's done that. And what was that like in your dating life when you were doing that? Because also, as I mentioned on top of a show before you guys showed up, I assume it's different. It was different then.

Not that it was that long ago than now when someone posed for Playboy. Well, yeah. I mean, there was really no form of social media back then when I first posed for Playboy. But people did think like, you know, they would go on dates with me. And oh, because I got naked or I posed for Playboy, but people did think like, you know, they would go on dates with me and, oh, because I got naked or I posed for Playboy, I'm either easy target. I don't know if that's the right word for it, but it was just, I don't think people took me as seriously as I wish they would have. So, dating wasn't as easy. And, you know, a lot of people just kind of wanted at that time, whether it be just people out here in LA or celebrities or

whatever, they just kind of wanted to hook up with someone that, you know, was in Playboy or... So, you felt objectified a little bit. I did. I mean, none of that would go now. I mean, there's so much, you know, I mean, this was like in the mid, like 2005, 2006. And yeah, it was just different. But, you know, I was so young and I was just having fun. I didn't technically take anyone seriously anyways. So, I mean, it was fine for me, but i did see others have to deal with it and you know i would go on dates with a few guys and i'd you know not necessarily get a second date or a third date i'm like what's what's up and it's like they just wanted to you know go out and have fun and then if i didn't necessarily give if i didn't yeah if i didn't like give in or whatever

like on the first it was literally like okay bye like i mean it was oh yeah oh yeah sometimes there was some like that for sure and then yeah there was some that were definitely persistent some i definitely hooked up with but it was uh did you think that men presumed that you were more sexually advanced than you thought you were because you posed for playboy yeah and i think a lot of my girlfriends i mean my girlfriend kindred and i talk about that and they think they have this perspective of who you are and what they see in the magazine or online or whatever and they're just like oh yeah she's good she's gonna be an animal she's gonna be a freak it's like no i just really knew how to arch my back and pose really well for that photo yeah i'm gonna take him photos yeah and sucking it in but it's yeah

but it people did have that you know know, perception, like thinking, yeah, this girl's going to be wild. She's going to be this, she's going to be that. And it's like, yeah, guys, you know, I mean, I'm not saying I wasn't, but it was just a different, you know, it was kind of hard to date because of that. And now you're now a husband. I'm assuming he certainly didn't make you feel that way. No, he's a good Midwest guy.

I met him when he was just out here um visiting and he didn't quite understand like when i did tell him i was like oh yeah you know i did playboy and he was like oh wait you did and he's like oh like he was a little bit like not process it yeah he had a and i was like are you are you serious like oh okay you know okay let's work this out and he was one that i dated for a long time before even hooking up with. And yeah, eventually married him. So yeah. Keeper. Yeah.

Sam didn't pose for Playboy. I didn't. But she is. I've been almost nude in a movie. No. No. You actually, Sam is an actor. And so she, I think you told me that your first movie you did was a bit on the horny side.

No, so artistically expressive. No, it was actually so i was already married when i i was like married super young and i got you know after you know slugging away auditioning i got a lead in a movie with um it was actually vivica fox was in there and it was cory haynes last movie and i was so excited and they had me do my love scene on the first day of shooting and i remember my husband freaked out because it's something that we didn't really talk about, and he was very concerned about what the underwear were like that I was wearing because I was being shot from behind, and my bra had to come off,

but I was wearing the stickies. There was all that stuff involved on your first love scene, and the underwear was smaller than what we had agreed upon, but being in my super early 20s and not feeling confident to A, say something, and B, feel like I could, I went and wore those underwear. And it caused actually a big discussion for us after the movie came out and he went to see it and walked out of that scene in the premiere. No way.

Because it was shocking for him to see me like that. I mean, I wasn't dating you know it made him definitely for a minute look at me differently and then we had to like discuss that i understand i set the bar so low it didn't even matter like for me well clearly i get what you're saying my husband said he's like just don't take your top off that was the thing he's like please don't take your top off and i was like it's not off i'm wearing the stickies yeah i mean i I don't, yeah. You can see. I get it. And as I said, clearly Sam and Jess have had some fun, interesting dating stories with both their husbands and before. And I thought they'd be great to join us along.

So I really appreciate you ladies. We'll dive right in. Did I just say I said the Barlow? You did. There you go. You're so adorable saying it. Oh, you know, it is what it is. Hi, how are you?

Hi, Nick. How are you guys? I'm great. What is your name? My name is Christy. I'm 26 years old. Christy, 26 years old. Christy, how can we help?

Oh, this is, by the way, this is my friends Sam and Jess. They're going to be helping me help you. Oh, awesome. Nice to meet you guys. Nice to meet you. Hi. So I wrote in about my current boyfriend. We've been dating for about a year now. When we first started dating, I noticed him liking and following,

I would say, scandalous photos of women on Instagram. And I brought it up to him. I tried to be nonjudgmental about it and just say it made me feel uncomfortable. He apologized. It didn't happen again for a while. Then I saw him liking more and I brought it up again. And then he unfollowed him. And it's been probably nine months since I've seen anything on social media until this past weekend. He, I found out he messaged a porn star on Instagram. I don't know if star is the right word, but she,

she does porn and he just messaged her saying that he liked watching her videos. And I found out and I'm obviously upset and frustrated and just kind of creeped out. And I don't really know how to proceed. Like, am I overreacting, underreacting? How did you find out? I was sitting next to him over the weekend and I saw her little icon when he was in his messages and it was provocative. So I pressed him and asked him to

open it for me. And he did? He did. Yeah. And when you say porn star, how do you know, what do you mean? Well, I mean, after the fact, I kind of looked her up. She's on Pornhub. She sells and videos of her. She has content out there on the internet okay yeah yeah okay yeah and did this person write back no um and it didn't even say that she saw it um but yeah just as a fan was complimenting her on her work yeah yeah and i honestly don't have a problem him watching porn like you know but the fact the fact that he felt the need to find her on instagram and message her just rubs me the wrong way yeah no i i i get it um and it sounds like you're having a basically a a conflict of trying to figure it bothers you right i mean it's safe to say it's bothered you

and you're trying to be the understanding girlfriend and trying to figure out if it's okay to bother you, um, kind of thing. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. And I've gotten mixed opinions. I've talked, you know, a couple of friends and my sister and I kind of just get mixed messages on how upset I should be about it or, you know, in what way, what are you hearing out there? Well, my sister says like, no, you should break up with him. This is like a repeated problem. Um, but then I have other friends being like, well, it kind of depends. I mean, you know, I don't know. What does he say? You know, he really, I mean, he obviously owned up to it and just, he didn't really have an explanation. He just said it was, you know, a stupid impulsive thing. There was no motive behind it. I was just felt like, you know, there really was no explanation and he kind of recognized that. Yeah.

And then before when you said you had caught him before, what was he just like liking or commenting on yeah there wasn't any uh before i never saw any messages it was just yeah liking um and a couple comments of um yeah women's photos um how old is he he's 25 okay uh and so when you say like you've been when you've been watching him or leaning over his shoulder, are you, do you get mad at him a lot? Do you, I'm not trying to turn this on you, but I'm just trying to understand the dynamic of your relationship of, you seem to be, have a watchful eye, I guess is what I'm saying. over i once well my hesitation was to start dating him was honestly because i saw all these like likes on my feed and um so i am kind of hyper vigilant to it for sure um i don't think i have any like trust issues i don't i don't think he has any motive to cheat i just think it's i don't know impulsive disrespectful so i i do have a I do have a watchful eye, yeah. I agree with Rochelle here who chimed in

who maybe disagreed with the fact that maybe you do. And I wouldn't look at trust issues as necessarily a negative. And trust issues can come in different forms. Just because your boyfriend or husband isn't going to fuck someone else doesn't mean you definitely trust them. I just, I don't think that your boyfriend or husband isn't going to fuck someone else doesn't mean you definitely trust them i just i i don't think that your boyfriend should be liking and messaging anybody like i think that's completely wrong i would be i i'm in a relationship right now and i would be

hurt if you know ron would no no no i don't think yeah it's one thing if you're okay with him watching porn you guys discussed it fantastic but he should not be reaching out because he's waiting for her to respond. He's not just writing her saying, I'd like your work. No, because if she responded, guaranteed, he'd probably go back and forth with her. There's engagement. Like, there's no reason. And she would charge him. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It seems like it's going a level further than just looking at, like, you know, if you're following a few different accounts with, you know, different women and even if they're you know porn stars I think that's fine but once you start messaging someone I feel like you're perhaps crossing a yeah no I don't agree with that and I get why you're upset and I would be upset as well and I would probably look more into it being like well is there something that maybe I don't know he needs more than you or maybe I don't know there is definitely something behind his motives of reaching out and hoping for a response.

He's not just writing to write. So there would be engagement back and forth if she did write back. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess we have the confirmation that obviously as you guys would be bothered by this, you're not, you know, to their point, you're not crazy for it to bother you. And you don't have to spend a lot of time justifying your feelings that you're uncomfortable with it yeah we talk a lot about trusting your gut and so uh again to my point you don't just because you don't think he's actually gonna sleep with someone else great good for him but there are trust issues you have and the fact that you have these issues and you don't necessarily trust him is causing you to have this very watchful eye over him, like leaning over his shoulder.

I mean, you shouldn't be in a position to notice what he's liking or messaging. You clearly are keeping a very close eye on his activity when his phone's in his hand. And that's not healthy. Like you're not in a relationship. You're in a relationship where you are doing this and that's not okay it doesn't like i'm not putting the blame on you but like clearly you don't trust that activity you mentioned you had hesitation of of dating him in the first place for that very reason and yeah listen i agree with you just jess and sam that in a traditional relationship that's not okay who knows if it didn't bother you, that's fine,

but it does bother you. So stop pretending it doesn't bother you. And, and then as far as whether it bothers you or not, I mean, I know Jess and Sam are validating your feelings, but the truth is it only really matters what you think in terms of, is it bother you or not? Some people might be like, have more open to it. It bothers you and that's okay. You're not crazy for feeling that way. But now you're at the point of it's affecting your actions and you are getting into an unhealthy situation of being kind of the, you're looking, you're sneaking around, you're looking over his shoulder.

You're probably then putting pressure on him. You're making him feel guilty. He has a right to feel guilty, but like, this is not a healthy dynamic that you guys are having right now. If you don't feel like you can get to a place where he's going to stop doing that, then if you, I think you have to admit to yourself that you don't trust him in that area. Sometimes it's hard to admit to be in a relationship where you don't trust your partner. Nick, I was going to say, I'm a big believer in, I call it like the spidey sense. And it's like that inner voice Nick touched upon, which is if you're already having that worry, then maybe

something in his behavior and something outside of Instagram or where he's messaging someone, I think you pick up on people's nuances and that's giving your inner sort of feeling that something's off and i always call that my spidey sense yeah you definitely not that you have trust issues but there is something that you don't trust with him and like nick said you would not be looking at his phone i mean i can't i don't even remember i've never looked at my yeah yeah because i don't feel the need to you felt the need to for a reason so you, you know, go with your instincts. And, you know, women's intuitions, they're pretty spot on. Yeah, I mean, and the fact that she is a porn star,

I don't know if you think that's better or worse than, let's say, if it was just a regular girl who, like, because, you know, if it's a porn star, maybe there's a thought in your mind of, like, he actually is just complimenting her work and she's unobtainable for him. So maybe it's, like, a safe place like if would it honestly it might make you feel worse if it was like your neighbor or a co-worker of his right because like then you start wondering is there something going on we're here it's this porn star she didn't even reply to him etc etc but whatever his motivation

was he probably felt like he was doing something wrong and he did it anyways and it and it is again uh making you go out of what you hopefully think is out of character for yourself to spy on your boyfriend hey and that's the biggest problem um and so once you start doing things out of character you know then you have to address that like any anytime you're in a relationship where you're doing things we're like i don't want to do this this is not who i am this is not the person i want to be then you have to address that problem and figure out how do you do that and if this is an ongoing issue and i don't know how you're going to get trust with this guy um yeah that's what i'm worried about if we can't get to that place where i fully don't feel the need to look on my feet for him or look over his shoulder.

That's kind of what. And then I'm also worried about trusting him and then it happening again and then feeling dumb. So, yeah. I mean, I guess the good news, it seems like he didn't lie about it. You know, I know you kind of caught him red handed, but at the same time, based on your story isn't like making up things he's owning that i mean you're you're gonna have to trust your gut whether you think you can trust him and whether you think he will actually stop this behavior if it bothers you you know it does bother you and so can you trust him to not do it but more importantly can you trust yourself to trust him? And if you can't

act, if you can't act confident, then you're not going to, you know, then this relationship is only going to go south because it's not going to get better, you know, trusting him. Yeah, I'm with Nick. I think you kind of know. I think you do know. I think you know what you're going to do with him. Like, from the second you called in, I felt like i think you know what you're going to do with him like i from the second you called and i felt like i mean if you're already feeling this way and you said it's a year in and i don't know i mean i would i don't want to say move on i mean that's that's for you to decide but i think you just need to figure out what what uh what you can do with this situation i think you need to you know as much as i appreciate you calling and asking our opinion i think you need to stop soliciting advice on whether you think this behavior is right or wrong, right?

Because it doesn't really matter. I feel like I talk to different people and they add different advice and it just makes me more confused. Yeah. I agree. Does it feel wrong to you? You have every right in any relationship you are to decide what behaviors you're okay with or not. You know, we have a lot of people call in and and do a bunch of different things. And we're not here to tell you one way or the other what's right or wrong. Is it right or wrong to you? Are you okay

with it? If you're not, then you have a right to ask him not to do that. And then you trust your partner to not do the things that you ask him not to do. It really comes down to that. So stop figuring out whether it's right or wrong. whether you're okay with it it seems like you're not okay with it that's totally fine and normal and now you have to figure out whether you can trust him to do it but you if you're in a relationship where you're looking over literally and metaphorically over your boyfriend's shoulder that's not a relationship you want to be in well yeah yeah i agree yeah all right so try. So try, you know, just you got to ask yourself, can you can you trust him? Yeah.

I don't know. Again, it's a good sign that he seemed to own up to it. I mean, he made like I mean, this is a young man with urges and fantasies and he's in a relationship and maybe there's a maybe it's like one of those things. He could be a young man who's like he's young. He's in a relationship with someone. You maybe are you guys talking about marriage and your future? I don't know. But he has a sexual appetite that he seems to be exploring. And he's not a criminal for that. It's just he's not good at communicating.

So you just have to have an open relationship. You watching him over his shoulder is not going to make him feel like he can necessarily talk to you. Yeah. And you don't necessarily have the, you know, it's not on you to do that if you want to. You just have to say what you want. So don't pretend that it's okay and then act like it's not, you know. And if you aren't okay with it, then end it or talk through it with him, you know. Yeah. All right.

I agree. Thanks so much, guys. No problem. Have a good day. All right. Love your podcast. thanks so much guys no problem have a good day all right love your podcast thanks so much for listening bye bye have either of you ever uh done so have you ever hacked into an email uh have you ever snooped on your boyfriends i know you guys are in loving happy marriages right now but before you found the man of your dreams, have you ever done something you thought,

like, this is not who I am or who I want to be? Yes. Sure. I mean, you can pretty much Google everything that I thought I wouldn't do. But I mean, even me and my husband, we've been together since I was 21. So anything that you can imagine you've gone through with like an ex that you, you know,

we've gone through it. Like we've broken up, gotten back together together we've 100% checked each other's emails and phones at some point because we were 21 and 23 right I mean your husband now you guys dated for a long yeah yeah so we've like we've been through almost every scenario I think that you could throw at a couple so how do you like in your situation you're you're now husband you know seemingly great relationship but before because you married so young, you broke up. How, if you're in her shoes, how do you get to that place where that trust is broken? How do you get it back? Because it's even hard, you know, to sit here and tell her what she should

or shouldn't do to get the trust back. You kind of have to trust your gut. But how did you guys do that? Yeah, because I mean, we've had trust broken several times throughout our long relationship. And I'd say the main thing is like, A, therapy is amazing. I think going and talking to a third party, whether it's a friend, a licensed therapist, just someone that is impartial, because sometimes I think you need someone to kind of listen to both of you. But I really believe to build trust again, you have to listen to the other person. And actually, in this case, like with her, if he never again messaged another woman on Instagram and things didn't keep popping up, I think that feeling would go away. Again, I really believe in like that internal feeling you get when something is a little awry

and someone's holding a secret you can feel it totally and i like that you said like uh you have to ask them because in this situation like the guy i mean we all agree that like he probably shouldn't do that yeah but like you know we can all imagine a scenario where just like i don't know he like mentions a porn star and it's stupid and don't do it but also like he's like every guy is probably capable of like having a moment of doing that and i'm not saying it's okay but like why is he doing that what is his motivation makes him feel and understanding that and then having that conversation in a way that's maybe not threatening where he can like well i guess here's why i did it i don't know like i'm maybe it's a sexual thing maybe now he can open up to her being like now that he caught obviously looking at a porn star and intrigued on whatever she's doing or how she's doing it so maybe that maybe he wants

to role play maybe he does maybe he does but there's clearly conversations to have and it's just getting to a place of doing it and that's kind of what i was saying to her just like right she's literally looking over his shoulder. She's like, you, you know, you've seen that scenario. You're on the couch,

watch TV, you're on their phone and he's kind of doing this and she's doing that. You know, like that's such a, the worst place to be feeling that a lot, I think a yellow, let young couples do. And it's just the,

the ability to have that open conversation. It also makes her now like the bad guy in that relationship, sort of like that role that she's putting her like that she's being put in by having to feel like she's not trusting him when you're the person that doesn't have trust i feel like then you feel like you're being you know mothering or whatever it is or over i don't know what that word is but you're the other person feels like they're being caged and that's not a good feeling either. You get yourself in that trap too, right? Because when you start like, just decide you're not okay with it. You don't have to sit there and be like, well,

is it okay? Should he be doing that? I don't know. Fuck. You don't like it. And so you just own that and then say, well, you know, because when you start checking emails and you become the bad guy and they can immediately be like, well, why are you looking at my shit? You don't trust me? And just say, no, I don't. You know, like sometimes people have a hard time admitting that so yeah i like that you brought up though she's not liking the person she is right now because she is having to look over she's having to and i mean if you're not happy i mean in their case you know they've been together a year they're young um if they can't like fix it kind of quick i think i mean i would cut your loss i would i think i would yeah we'll see it's hard to start a relationship with issues yeah hi how's it going hi good my name is Sam I'm 25

hi Sam's 25 we also have Sam here and Jess who are also going to be listening to your story and hopefully have offering some helpful insight. Awesome. Well, basically I emailed in because I got into a hookup situation with a coworker and I was under the impression that it was exclusive. We were hooking up for a while

and basically I found out from other coworkers that he was in a, what this girl said was a relationship with this guy. And they had been hooking up on and off for a really long time. So I basically called him out and I just had a question like, what do you, what do you, how do you boundaries with like a someone you're like just having sex with they're like you know sure I mean so you work with this guy yeah I work at a hospital he's a doctor um sounds like a porn so it's definitely does what is idea so when like tell me about this relationship you say you want to set boundaries what do you mean yeah so he pursued me at work i like really like to keep work professional i've never actually i'm a nurse so like i interact with doctors a lot um and so i've never really

ever had like a doctor show interest in me in this way is very like pursuant and um so I he messaged me on Instagram DM me and then we just kind of started talking flirting and then we eventually um I went to his like apartment and we started hooking up and like before we started hooking up it was kind of like oh um was he going to use a condom or not sort of thing and then I was like uh like I don't know like what like this has to be exclusive sort of thing and he was like oh yeah like you're the only girl I'm taught like I'm with like especially at work I really like to keep this discreet like you know I really like you just kind of like telling me all these things that like it was just me and I was like okay Like we're both adults. Like I can keep this like on the hush hush, like as well as you can and whatever.

And so. How did you feel about that when he answered it that way? I mean, I guess I kind of understood just because, um, I mean, we work together pretty frequently. We work on the same floor and, um, he's going to be going to be on the floor with us for like eight plus years. So it's like, I definitely don't want it to, I know how it could like seem to like coworkers and people I work with. I'm like, I really like my job. So I kind of like understood that sort of aspect of it.

And I was under the impression that he was like, that it was going to be like just us two sort of so what do you mean i was like just okay cool to just you two hooking like it was just going to be yeah like it like it wouldn't be like other women kind of coming into the picture other women is this other woman do you work with her too um i don't work with her directly but she she works at the house. Yeah. Does that bother you more or less? It kind of bothers me more. Okay. What do you want out of this?

I'm not asking you whether you're okay with his explanation or not, but in your perfect world, what do you want out of this? Do you really just want to hook up? Why are you worried about setting boundaries and why are you worried about whether he's hooking up with a girl if it's just a hookup? So that's the thing. So the, I guess relationships are getting less like strictly hooking up and more like me coming over.

He cooked me dinner. We'd hang out and like, yeah, we'd have sex and stuff, but it was like started. It wasn't just like me coming over and having sex and leaving. It was like, we would hang out, enjoy church company um that kind of thing and so i think it was kind of like blurring lines for me and like i definitely think i started getting feelings i mean like somewhat but um i wasn't really looking thinking too far into it because i was just like well like if we get to that conversation like we'll get to it eventually sort of thing um but then when i heard that he um was in like what this other

woman thought was the relationship with him i was just like what'd you say to him did you address it with him yeah what do you say i was like um i was kind of pissed so i was like you know like if we're gonna um you're gonna be having um unprotected sex with me, like, or no, what did I say exactly? It was something along the lines of, like, I feel really disrespected that you are telling me that I was the only person and we're having unprotected sex, but you're going to go and, like, fuck some other girl and, like, have a relationship with her. Like, that's not cool with me. Like, we had discussed, like, kind of what was going on, and I just feel like i was blindsided and disrespectful and not just another girl in or tech yeah sure my gut tells me that well that's totally a normal thing in terms of listen in terms of like being safe and having protected sex or not having a protected sex yeah there's a lot of trust and i don't doubt that

bothered you but my gut tells me that that's more of the excuse because you know that you are justified to feel that way like of course you are justified to feel that way but my gut tells me you're probably more bothered by the fact that he's also just having sex with someone else and you probably just kind of like him and ideally if he would date you you would have dated him and if he was open to having a relationship, you would probably have been open to have a relationship with him. But because he set the expectation that he's not, you decided to kind of go along with it and then tell yourself that you're fine with the hookup.

And then he started doing these kind of confusing things like make you dinner. And then it's just like, well, he kind of told me up front that he didn't want to be in a relationship. But now he's making me dinner. And like, what is he trying to tell me something? Or are we just playing house? And then you found out that he's having sex, and you're trying to process all this, and the only thing you know that you're justified for being mad at is the fact that he's having

unprotected sex with someone else, but what you're really mad at is that he's romantically involved with someone else other than you, and you feel a bit hurt and misled because you like him. Yeah, I know. involved with someone else other than you and you feel a bit like hurt and misled because you like them yeah i know i think like when i found out like that all this would happen like i was more upset than i thought because i just hadn't really thought too much into it and we on you us playing house like that's totally it like he picked me up from work we'd hang out he's like playing music like it was just like it was very so what did he say very like that what did he say when you addressed it he owned up to it he was like oh well i was having protected sex with her but like um probably not i'm sorry you feel that way no no i was like it's bullshit but

whatever i'm sorry you feel that way yeah yeah he was like well i didn't lie to you it was a lie of omission he's like because when we started having sex like you were the only person and he's like and then i started hooking up with this girl again and um i just didn't tell you even though i've been telling you that you were the only one sure which i was like okay okay yeah i mean listen it's this is like i think a common thing that happens when it comes to like hooking up with someone on a consistent basis and like, you're kind of honest with each other, but since you're not dating, how much do you really owe them the play by play of your life outside? Certainly the, you know, it gets tricky, but you would call them asking like, how do you

set these boundaries? I would just turn it back to you as like, what do you think you should do in terms of what do you really want out of this? And do you think it's reasonable that you're going to get it and then how do you go about getting it you know uh yeah i went into it thinking i didn't want a relationship and was like cool with just like having someone to like hook up with enjoy my time with i'm just like not ready for like a serious relationship and maybe like when this happened it kind of like gave me more insight like oh maybe i do want something like a serious relationship. And maybe like when this happened, it kind of like gave me more insight, like,

Oh, maybe I do want something like monogamous and exclusive. And like, maybe that is a relationship in a sense. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, listen,

if you're going to not, if you're going to hook up with someone on a regular basis and have unprotected sex, you're not in a committed relationship. So there's a reason if you're not a committed relationship, there's a reason why, because they want to sleep with other people at some point, may not know they want to sleep with someone but like they have the option so just to be totally safe always have protected sex with someone that you're not in a

relationship with yeah yeah i mean this or you know like there's a risk there there's an inherent risk you know like you guys aren't going to always be telling you like in a perfect world you'd always run it by you but like it's just not going happen. And there's a reason why he doesn't want to deal with other people because he also wants to fuck other people. Like, I think you started that way, though. The way you started is, I mean, he's I don't really think that's going to build a relationship. I mean, I did that before. You know, I had one guy that I was literally just hook up with. And if you ever try to have like a conversation with me kind of after, I'd be like, oh, this is strange, you know, because I knew what I was going in for.

In that scenario, you seem confident that you didn't want the relationship i didn't and but she does oh you said you didn't want her she's saying that but she definitely wants yeah yeah i think i like eventually like it is what i like want i guess i don't want a serious relationship but i i don't know i'm just like in this weird part of my life where i thought i didn't want that and like i was I don't know. I'm just like in this weird part of my life where I thought I didn't want that. And like, I was cool with what we were doing, being just like us two hooking up. We don't hang out all the time. Like it's perfect for me, at least right now. And, um, but you know, I just feel like he was projecting one thing towards me and then I was just picking it one way.

And then like, when I found that out, he was sleeping with other people. I was just like, okay, I was probably like fucking half hospital. And I was just like, okay, well, he's probably like fucking at the hospital. And I was just like, well. Listen, I think it's one of those situations where it's very easy to point out things he did wrong. And I'm not here to defend him. But this is a situation where you are not thinking about all the control and power that you have in this scenario. And that is that you could just stop doing what you're doing. Right.

And so you're not in a relationship with him. He technically has a right to sleep with other people. He should be honest and upfront about protecting unprotected sex. But like, again, you're not in a relationship. So like you have to also be the, you have to,

as an adult saying, well, if I'm not a committed relationship, there's a reason why. And so I'm, I don't have to trust you. I just have to like have protected sex type of thing. So at this point, if you really want to date him, he doesn't have to trust you. I just have to like have protected sex type of thing. So at this point, if you really want to date him,

he doesn't want to date you, you need to stop hooking up and take, again, we talk about it a lot. Take your power back, set boundaries by not playing house anymore and not having sex with them. And if he realizes that like he lost something special and he really wants to have both,

then he will come back he probably won't he probably will just keep sleeping with other people but that's the one way you get someone to realize what they lost is by having them lose it uh right now you know he might still be able to have sex with you um are you yeah we stopped okay yeah i'm sleeping together okay after i like addressed him just because i was mad, upset, whatever. And then didn't speak to him for a few weeks. See him at work. Started hitting me up, texting me again.

And I just kind of not responded. But I know he's trying to like... Yeah. He's just hoping time will pass and you'll get a little less mad. And then he's hoping you get a little bored and a little lonely. And then, you know, like come over for some dick. He's a fuckboy doctor. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. He's a you get a little bored and a little lonely and then, you know, they come over for some dick. He's a fuckboy doctor. Yeah.

He's a stick out. There we go. Yeah. He's a fuckboy. But what I'm picking up from you, something you picked up from this is you thought you were just in a mode, like a point in your life where you weren't ready for a relationship. But it sounds like hanging out with him and sort of that playing house, not with him specifically, but that this maybe taught you that maybe

you are ready for a relationship and if you're not go meet another guy and have fun with him with protected sex but you know i just think it's time to move on from him it sounds like i think that relationship is kind of done yeah yeah i mean and if if you just want to have sex and it's good just you can't get mad at him for hooking up with other you just use him use him find someone else have sex with him not him you should definitely stop for trying to figure out whether you know if there's boundaries to set or somehow you can get him back or convince him and if like he would really if he ever like yeah he's gonna text you that he's bored and you're gonna hear from him but he needs to really like do something special over time and really address

that he really wants to commit not like you up kind of text or like hey what's up yeah yeah yeah and that's that's what you should do but the thing is is like my most important takeaway for this is like to be honest with yourself know that you have a lot of control in this situation you may not get what you want in the moment but you still have control and that is to just stop doing what you're doing and stop making excuses for them and and just own up to the fact that you seem to really like them which it seems like you're doing which is great but like follow through with that you know because eventually you will get bored and you will be inclined to respond at some point yeah yeah oh totally i've been strong like a few times already and that and that's on you at this point you know at this point he's kind of free and clear because now you know what he is and so

yeah if you go forward you're making that choice knowing what he is yeah and that's a guy who wants to sleep with a bunch of nurses if i was to go and have sex with him then it's me being complicit and that's fine but just don't pretend it's something else you can't get mad at him anymore it's on you no totally yeah you're right the more you don't care the more it's going to bother him guaranteed oh yeah that is true but then just keep in mind you're playing games with someone you actually like so just be careful there you know yeah no do you like this guy we've established that well i just want to hear i was wondering if she liked the idea of the relationship as opposed to just him as a person i

was trying to or just having sex yeah so many different likes i think like initially i was cool that's just i didn't really know him and then i really got to know him as the house thing continued and like you know he would do nice things for me, bring me food at work and like spend time with me and stuff. And so then I was just like, oh, like we actually have a lot more in common than I thought. And like we talked like on an emotional level in a sense. So I was just like, oh, like I actually I wasn't really expecting us to get beyond like a hookup, like physical sort of thing. And then we started I started getting to know him like personally. And I was like, oh, he's actually really cool.

So you do like him? Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, you're going to be fine. It sounds like you're in a good place, but just, you know, follow through. Because a lot of people get to where you are and they kind of go back to the same actions.

And if you do, that's fine. But just own it then. Just be like, hey, I wanted to get laid. Great. Wear a condom. All right. All right. Thanks, guys.

All right. Bye. Bye. Why am I thinking like just like this really hot, like she's walking down the hospital and he's like throwing her in there and he's like having sex with her and it's like scrubs.

And sometimes I always wonder, I'm like which doctor and which nurse are hooking up at this office there's always yeah i always am like picking up on chemistry i do find it like whether and we talk about power a lot so like the doctor nurse or like dating an older guy or younger person in those scenarios i think a lot of uh of the women and we've talked about this before try to play the cool girl she's going to go into this being like you know i just want to have sex and i'm super cool and i don't want to date and maybe that was all true and that's why to me it was really obvious early off the bat that she really liked him because you can tell she was gonna

spend a lot of her time convincing her she didn't and then and that's why it's it's completely opposite the scenario you brought up where you're just like, you just wanted to have sex with this person. You probably had the power in that scenario. I think I did. Or you were like- Probably the only time. You knew, and that's what usually happens when you're hooking up.

Someone, if the power isn't, someone knows that if I wanted a relationship with this person, I could have it. And then that gives them that power. And it gives them that power. And they'll say things like, I don't want to date you. And often the other person who was like,

oh, well, I never thought I wanted to date you anyways. But deep down, they kind of do. And that was clearly her in this scenario. Yeah. Which is fine. And we spend a lot of time pretending that's not us. Because when we admit it to ourselves, we feel like we're powerless.

But that's actually not true. When we admit we like someone and just own the fact, and then we actually have the power, we take some of our power back by just saying, I like you. And I don't want to keep fucking you without a commitment and people are afraid to do that sometimes yeah no i actually was in i feel like in college before i met my husband i there was a guy i really liked and we he was so non-committal that we were hooking up for a bit and i was like pretending to be okay with it and i actually developed feelings for him yeah and then i actually said i i was like you know what i can't do this and then it came a year later he came back to me again we started hooking up and he wanted a relationship and i was like no

yeah but it felt really good i think it's happened to all of us yeah just by you know thinking it's a casual hookup but of course he developed feelings yeah unless you really clearly go into it when you in my case i was partying and drinking and having fun being super young when you admit your feelings you you take a lot of your power back yeah usually usually everyone knows like everyone in that and when i everyone i mean the two people involved yeah everyone knows who's the person who wants relationship even when someone's pretending it yeah and so when you don't admit it you're like i know you want this and i know you're afraid to say it and like you're not actually thinking it but as soon as that person puts it out there they actually have some power

because it's like well now you've stated your claim and now it's on that person to be like well do i lie manipulate do i say okay maybe we shouldn't hang out then that person has to make a choice the doctor in this scenario if she's like i like you and i want to date you you can't then you make them make a choice yeah and before you if they don't well you don't have to choose because you're not going to say it and if you're not going to say it we'll just get out and sex yeah but i'm pretty proud of her for just saying absolutely not i'm done we're not having sex we're not because you know she does hard that is hard like she's attracted to him and he's texting her and he's having sex with other nurses in there oh god and they're like you bump into each other there's that hot like passing by

in the hall oh yeah see i'm visioning like this is where i'm getting all like yeah there's like the little storage room that's what i'm thinking the storage room yeah oh you guys are thinking about she's telling her story just imagine you're pouring in here we are you're like role playing you guys gonna go home on your way home you're gonna buy buy your husband a doctor's outfit, aren't you? Role play. Let's do this. How's it going? Hey, good. How are you? I'm doing well. What's your name? I'm Diana and I'm 25.

Diana, 25. We're sticking with the mid-20s this episode. I like it. Yeah. I know. Diana, how... Diana or Diane? Diana. Diana. Diana, how can we help? These are my friends Sam and Jess, by the way. Hi. Hopefully offer some perspective as well. Okay, great.

Well, I really just need help on figuring out how to deal with an ex. So I dated my ex for a really long time, like six years. We broke up last summer. So it's been plenty of time and it was fine. I think we just kind of like outgrew each other. But now I just kind of need help on like figuring out how to deal with our relationship now in a sense. So because we dated for so long and I'm really close with my family during that time, he ended up getting close to my family as well. And I don't mean just my parents.

I mean, like my cousins and my aunts and uncles and everyone. And even now, like two of his closest friends are like one of them is my cousin and the other one is my other cousin's husband. And we have a lot of the same mutual friends. And that's fine. I'm okay with that. But what I'm not fine with is, like, he'll show up to events and parties that are just, like, family. And that's really uncomfortable for me. And he doesn't seem to understand why that's weird for me.

So I really just want your opinion on that, how to deal with it. And then I guess also just making sure that my feelings for that are even valid and that I'm not being selfish, I guess. Well, I mean, we always talk about you're entitled to feel however you want. So your feelings are valid, whatever they are. How you handle those feelings can be up for debate.

Who broke up with who? I broke up with him okay uh and do you feel like uh he would still be with you if you wanted to be um i mean maybe not anymore now but i think for a while probably how long you guys been broken up for so uh over a year now over a year um and you guys are relatively the same age i mean he was like your first love yeah yeah i mean we dated from when like 18 to 24 total yeah i mean i had a similar situation it's something that's pretty common it's definitely tricky to navigate um there's no right or wrong. I totally get where he's coming from. And, you know, he could, it's totally believable that like your cousins and some of your family members are like just his best friends. That's normal. But like,

you do have the right to set certain boundaries, right? Because things are so intertwined. Have you ever tried having a conversation with your cousins or these family members that he's friends with about how you feel about the situation? No, because I just, I don't, I feel like I don't know how to go about that. So like, I, I do want to, you know, share with them what I'm feeling, but at the same time, it's awkward for me because it's, I don't feel like it's my place to say who they can invite to their events or who they can invite,

you know, into their home or whatever. So I also just don't know how to do that. Yeah. And that can be tough. And you like, just because you express how you feel doesn't mean you're going to get the result that you want either. Right. Because you can say it's uncomfortable, but your cousin can be like i don't know man like they're my friend and i get that you guys broke up but like deal with it and they would be justified to saying that like whether that's nice or not i mean i'm just simply saying like they could easily do that and feel justified to do that right they could think well hey you if you broke up with them like why should i stop being friends with them he seems cool it's just one of those things where

like i i empathize with you because you don't... Have you dated other people? Are you dating anyone else right now? No. I mean, I'm casually dating, but I'm not looking for a relationship. It's not a matter of I don't want to bring anybody else around, anything like that. It's just a matter of me being comfortable. Yeah, I like that. It's just a matter of me being comfortable. Yeah, I get that.

It just might be, unfortunately, something you might have to deal with for a while and be uncomfortable in a situation. You can choose to address it. You have the option and the right to go to your cousin and tell him how you feel. I don't know how that's going to play out. You have to know that you aren't guaranteed the result that you want. Potentially, it could like create more drama you run the risk of him finding out and making him feel like you give a shit about

something he could accuse you of why do you give a shit kind of thing these are all like game playing and just kind of like shifting in power i mean i don't know i mean if you wanted to play a little bit of games and just see how it affected them, like start bringing guys around. Be completely indifferent. He might just stop showing up. You know what I'm saying? Like he could easily, if neither of you have started dating other people, right? The fact that you guys have dated so long, even though you've been single, you haven't really replaced each other yet, right? And so he doesn't feel threatened. He feels safe and he feels very comfortable in your family. And he knows that you're going to be there alone without a guy. I promise you,

as soon as you show up with another guy, regardless of how serious you are about him, as long as he doesn't know what it is and as long as he's confused and feels threatened, he will react to it. How he reacts, I don't know, but he will certainly react to it. And he might just react by stop showing up. So again, it just might be one of those things that you might have to deal with until you actually move on. And I'm not suggesting you still want to be with them. But like, especially when it comes to your first big relationship and your breakup, there's like stages of moving on. And that final stage is actually finding and meeting someone else. And I'm not saying you need to jump in a relationship. I

commend you for like, being in your like mid mid twenties and being comfortable with being alone. I think that's a really important part in someone's young adult life to do that. So good for you for doing that, but don't be afraid to just like date people and like hang out with guys and you don't have to be in love or think they're going to be your husband to maybe bring them to a family event. Like you can keep it super fucking casual. You know what I'm saying? Like just set expectations. You can bring a guy to a wedding just because like, it doesn't mean he's going to be your boyfriend just be up front with the expectations of what that is like just don't be confusing um yeah but i guarantee you when you actually start moving on and show him that you're like going to start dating other people he will

react a certain way and i you know he might just show up a little bit less and even if not as you start meeting someone uncomfortable in a relationship you will feel less uncomfortable and threatened but you're just trying to figure out is this okay if it's not and there's probably a little bit of gray right he probably is showing up not thinking he's telling himself well I'm just friends with my cousin but he's maybe doing it manipulating the situation and not even being totally honest with himself, but probably because he's having a hard time letting go. Right. Yeah. Sounds like it. Yeah. I think that if you go ahead, I was just going to say, and he knows, um, cause like I talked to him about it. I told him like, this is why I'm uncomfortable. I can't stop you. You know,

you're going to do whatever, but he like, I would tell him why, but he didn't seem to understand still why that made me uncomfortable. He understood. He didn't care. I don't understand it, and I'm going to still keep showing up. That's the thing. He doesn't care. Yeah. That's the end of the day.

And in fact, the fact that he knows that you're uncomfortable is probably why he's showing up because you care right you know that biggest it's indifference that you're not demonstrating and it's you know as soon as you are indifferent towards him then he will react and he will care less but he knows he gets a rise out of you you know i'm not saying it's like he's an evil dick but like that's what when we know we can get a rise out of someone we continue to do that action, especially when we are connected to that. He doesn't want to let go. You know, it's hard to let go of that first love, both of you in a different way. So it can be challenging. I don't think you need to keep telling him that it bothers you because quite honestly, it's just kind of like stroking his ego. You've asked him to stop. He clearly isn't respecting that.

He could have, he's chosen not to, whatever. I think you should try to demonstrate indifference, whether you actually feel indifferent towards him. And the less he thinks you care, the more of, you'll get what you want.

And if you can start bringing around other guys, I mean, don't do it just to fuck with them, but like try to actually move on because you guys haven't totally moved on from each other yet. And I've been there. It sometimes can take a really long time and it could be like a year, year and a half after the breakup of your first love to really have them be

completely out of your life. I guarantee you, he will stop showing up to family events when you start bringing a serious guy over. I totally agree with you. Yeah. I don't think he's as close with your family as you think. I think he's making himself that close because he can still get to you. So I think Nick's right.

You bring someone around, the less and less he's going to show up because he's not as close with your family as you probably think. It's more about you. Yeah, that's a good point. I guess my only concern with that is because of the issues that I'm having now with him just like inserting himself in situations. I kind of already thought in my mind, I want to be more careful about that in the future if I do get into a relationship because I don't want to be dealing with this down the line again.

I'm like, cool, another ex-boyfriend. It's just like, I would challenge you not to dealing with this down the line again. I'm like, cool, another ex-boyfriend. It's just like, here. I would challenge you not to do that. Every situation is different. Don't bring your past relationships into your new ones. Also, like, again, this is your first serious relationship, your first love. There's so much about young love that you try to play house and do things,

and everything seems bigger and grander. I would challenge you, and what I was about to say before you brought that up is be a little more casual about dating. You know, like if you want to be single, great, you can still date, you can still go out, you can still see someone on a regular basis. You just have to communicate your expectations with them. And right now you're like everything about your first love is such so big and grand is that like, just keep them at arm's length, you know, like bring a guy to an event, but don't like, you know, sometimes we feel the pressure when we introduce people, our family, we want our family to like them.

And so our expectation of the people we date is to get them to like be really close with our family. I want you to hang out with my cousins and get to know them. Don't make them feel the pressure to get like, just bring them along. They're like, they're just there. It's company. There's someone to dance with at a party. You know, there's someone to hang out with, right?

Keep it fairly casual. They don't have to like, you know, I've introduced plenty of people and women to my family that are no longer in my life and no longer in theirs. And everyone's fine. You know, it's not a big deal. We sometimes make it a big deal and I totally get where you're coming from,

but I would just keep it casual. Bring them along. Don't set the expectation that like, I'm introducing you to a family because they need to like you because we might get married. It's like, do you want to come to this party? Yeah, my family might be there.

Whatever. No big deal. Don't make it such a big deal. Like you're making it a big deal and your family can still be very important to you and you can really expect that, like respect that time without like, without making it a big deal.

Like your family is not so sacred that you can't introduce random people to them. You know i'm saying like so yeah bring them along have some fun bring them to weddings like bring them bring around some other guys you'll stop showing up yeah and just don't put the pressure on these new guys to feel like they have to get close to your family that will happen over time oh yeah don't put that pressure yeah and yeah that's a good point you'll never have a relationship like that because it's your first. You know, you're not going to stick around

in a six-year relationship longer than you otherwise would. And that's part of just like dating and dating new people is that you, you know, you learn so much about yourself and him through this new relationship. And that's a great thing. And it will always be a part of you. But like, it's also harder to get over the first time and you will find it to be easier going forward all right okay yeah all right well hopefully that was helpful

best of luck you're gonna be fine data bring other guys yeah he will stop showing up i promise okay thanks all right take care all right yeah bye um yeah i mean this classic young love yeah yeah right it's as simple as what you just said just bring around other guys the guy will show less and less being that yeah we and i love that you said that jess we have a way of lying to ourselves too i think even him i don't think he's machiavellian like being like oh i'm i don't care and i'm pretending to be close but he he's he's convincing himself he's close with his cousin and i'm sure they do hang out and they maybe are real friends but i and they might still continue to be friends but what he will do is start he will show up left to these events yeah it's yeah because it is boundaries like it's funny

my brother there's a guy i dated before my husband and he just like stays in touch with my brother he just like made a guitar for my brother two months ago and they talk but he's never shown up at any of our family events and i think it it's just boundaries. Yeah. It's having boundaries. And right now, this couple's like, yeah. I mean, I've so have been there and it can be challenging when you're young, your first love, because there's this loyalty. She's literally never bonded with another guy other than him like that. And so that can be very challenging and uh it takes a long time to get over that first person my first boyfriend still hits like my dad up every now and then and it's like that was a really really long time ago you're like come on but it's that young love that you

just never kind of you know it's still gonna kind of be there throughout your life some way somehow but you don't need to and that's okay like if my first girlfriend my mom told me my first girlfriend like reached out to my mom i wouldn't care it's so long ago but i would know that that those reasons be really organic and and yeah and real and not in any way questioning whether they're doing it just to stay close and there's there's that balance and that can happen a lot in between relationships, but bring another guy. How's it going? Good. How are you?

I'm doing great. What's your name? My name is Michelle and I'm 24. Michelle, 24. Michelle. I have my friends, Jess and Sam here with me. Michelle is also with us.

How can we help? Okay. So I guess, uh, kind of try and briefly sum it up, basically I broke up with my long-term boyfriend back in March. And then in April, I ended up meeting this guy through mutual friends. We kind of started talking and just like casually hooking up. Obviously I wasn't looking for anything. I'd just gotten out of a relationship, kind of just kept talking, hooking up throughout the summer, and kind of as summer went on, I guess it became a more frequent thing. We started, like, actually going out and doing stuff with friends, like going out to dinner, that kind of thing, so naturally, I think we both kind of started to

catch feelings that we were maybe trying to avoid in the first place. I was going back to down to school in August, which he and I both knew kind of from the beginning. So another reason why I wasn't looking for anything. But I think we both ended up like liking each other a lot more than we expected. So we kind of got forced into having the conversation of like, okay, do we want to having the conversation of like okay do we want to keep talking or like we wanted to say this was a fun summer and like go our separate ways and basically we decided to give it a shot and just kind of see and so the past few months I've been at school and it's like 10 hours away from home it's actually been going really

well and we faceTime like a couple times a week and that kind of thing. And I've been home once to visit. And so when I was home, he made it clear like his intentions now is that he wants to date. And he kind of asked me how I felt about that or if I'd be like ready for it. And I think my response to him probably came across really poorly because I was very like unsure and just like honestly I was like I hadn't really given it a lot of thought like I had kind of just been going with the flow and so I think he kind of was maybe taken back by that and I guess I'm just wondering like why I'm maybe so hesitant to date him when there's no like obvious red flags and like

everything has been going like super super well and we've been talking for like almost six months now. I feel like it should have been like a no brainer for me to just say like, yeah, I want to date too. Like I want the same thing. So, yeah, I guess I just, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out why I'm so hesitant about it. Does it like feel bad because you're hesitant about dating someone you're in a long distance relationship with or just in general um i just feel bad like i don't know i guess because like we felt or i thought like we were on the same page like feelings wise or like that's how we've expressed it to each

other so when he said he wanted to date i think he was probably assuming that i would just say the same but he did say like he doesn't want me to feel like rushed into it at all or anything. I think he just like wanted to make it clear that that's his intentions, I guess now. What are your hesitations? If you were to just say, you know, you say there's no obvious red flags,

fine. But like, what are your general hesitations about, um, if you were just talking to any friend about like, what are the things you may not love about the situation? Not necessarily maybe him. Yeah i i think like initially obviously like the long distance that's a kind of a big hesitation but i'm actually transferring back home after this semester

not because of him just other reasons um so like i it wouldn't even be long distance after like December. So I feel like that's not really, I guess a valid reason anymore. Um, I don't know, I guess like I very much feel like over my past relationship, but I don't know. I feel like people can be judgy maybe and think like, oh, you're already in another relationship. Like, I mean, I i don't but like how long do you think you need to be single before you can meet someone else i mean i personally like feel

fine about it because i'm the one that ended the previous relationship but also i think like my ex didn't take the breakup very well and he's still not taking it very well. I mean, I don't sound cold, but that's not necessarily your problem. Are you guys, do you have a lot of mutual friends, I'm guessing? Um, some. Like we don't live in the same city, thankfully. So like, it's not like I'm seeing him, but I know obviously like. Do you have any communication with your ex? Um, I try to avoid it.

He has been kind of persistent with reaching out and i thought that he was maybe doing better because i was not hearing from him as frequently and then when i got back to my apartment at school there was several things in the mail from him like letters basically saying he still thinks i'm the one and just like a lot of stuff like that yeah so i mean that's that's tough uh but it's also normal and common was he your first love your the the ex were you his first love more importantly i guess maybe for him he wasn't mine but maybe the other way around i guess like he was a little bit older i think he was definitely ready to settle down and was like so sad that i was going to be that one and sure yeah i guess

uh the best thing you can do as far as your ex is to just continue to completely cut him off never feel guilty about the fact that you don't want to date him anymore and i know his feelings are hurt and he might be sad and he might have a way of throwing things your face or just telling you how much he loves you but not to be cold it's not really your problem and we're honestly uh entertaining any advances he makes is only going to confuse him and give him false hope so as cold as it sounds you should just not you know if he sends you stuff you should say it's not you should tell him it's not appropriate and you don't want it to you know and again that might sound mean but you should be very clear and draw a very fine line uh and i mean i've tried to be

without being rude i guess like when he sent the stuff in the mail like i i just sent him a text saying like basically just fyi i got it and like i'm sorry things haven't been easy on you but like nothing has changed on my end you should i mean that's fine you didn't do anything wrong but i wouldn't even go so that so that far i wouldn't even just acknowledge you've broken up with them right at this point you you shouldn't keep doing that um and i can totally get i mean i don't know if this is how you feel but it was when i in my first couple relationships when we would break up and I started moving on, even though we're broken up, I felt guilty about dating other people. I don't know where it came from. There's a loyalty there. I think I had with my first ex and even though we're broken up,

I knew they would get mad and I was afraid for them to find out. I don't know why, but I think that's a common thing we have. And the more you can separate yourself from the past and your ex and just be very definitive about that, you're broken up. This is clearly affecting your ability to move on with this next guy. I mean, I don't know if he's the one or if you really like him, but I think,

I think it's safe to say that your, your ex is still affecting it. And like, ideally you shouldn't want, you shouldn't care if he finds out or not and you do right i mean you care you're you would rather have him not know you have a boyfriend uh yeah yeah and the truth is and i totally get that i've been there we've all been there the truth is you shouldn't care you know you like you're single and you have a right to

date someone else and you shouldn't care you know uh so you have to try to get to that place where you don't care and part of it is just to try to get to that place where you don't care and part of it is just like again continue to remind yourself that you've broken up with him you shouldn't feel guilty you've done nothing wrong you you don't need to justify not wanting to be with someone and he might be heartbroken and that sucks for him and i feel bad but he's better off not with you because you don't want to be with him and he just hasn't accepted that yet part of me like this sounds harsh i guess too kind of but like it's like i almost want him to find out so that like maybe he'll actually like genuinely try to move on there there could like

yeah they're part of me feels bad there could be that i mean again i can't tell you whether you like this guy or not or what you should do i mean i think there's a lot of scenarios go uh going on here that are going to be confusing your choice. Like, again, are you afraid to date this guy because you're afraid for your ex to find out? Or are you going to date this guy because you want this guy to move on kind of thing? The truth is you just have to really just figure out what you want. Maybe you want to be single and you just like having the companionship with this guy and he's like a nice enough guy that you feel like it's fun to hook up with from time to time and he's like a buddy and he's kind of your friend but maybe the reason you don't want to get together

with him is because maybe you just want to be single you know so i think you just need to figure out what you really want um and be honest with yourself and but really figure out like except get get this ex-relationship out of the picture and really just accept the fact that you're you're not together and he's not your problem anymore and as cold as it sounds i think you need to keep telling yourself this you're not it's not my problem uh and anytime he sends you things you need to be very direct be like it's gotten to the point of i'm not like i'm not okay with it i'm uncomfortable with it this is not okay to send to me you don't have to apologize i'm sorry you you're you're not sorry anymore like. I'm uncomfortable with it. This is not okay to send to me. You don't have to apologize. I'm sorry.

You're not sorry anymore. Like you've broken up with them. Like it's been a while and you need to move on. And then you need to figure out secondary what you want to, what relationship you want to be in. Do you want to be in a relationship?

If not, are you doing it because you're bored? You just like having someone around? You know, these are all questions you should ask yourself and then be honest with yourself. You don't seem overly excited about this guy. It sounds like he's fine.

No, I really like him a lot. So you do like him a lot? Yeah, I do. So yeah, I mean... I didn't get that. So then maybe it says more about your ex. Again, you're clearly dealing with two different scenarios and you need to shut one down so you can clearly see what's going on with this next one. And nothing about your ex-relation, past relationships to play any role in the future one,

regardless. It shouldn't be because he wants him to know or not. Like you should try to make that very clear. So part of that is just accepting that he's not your problem anymore. He's just not. You don't care what he thinks thinks he's going to be fine. And if he's not, then he needs professional help, but he's going to be fine. People get broken up with all the time. You know, we've all been there and we've all had crazy thoughts, but I'll never move on. And you're the one, and we don't

want to accept the reality. We've all been there. He needs to accept his, but it's not your problem. And you need to just kind of have that mindset so you can move on. And then if you really like him, you should just fucking date this guy, you know? Yeah. I mean, because eventually he might get annoyed and he might move on and he might get tired of waiting. I think that's what I'm afraid of is that like, I don't really know, I guess, aside from the ex thing, like, I feel like if I can maybe get rid of that guilt, like, I don't really know what's holding me back. Cause like, it's been so good with this guy that like, there's not really any reason not to date him, I guess. I don't know. I feel like we've been maybe living in, like, a little fantasy bubble, though, and then I'm just afraid, like,

something's going to mess it up or something. I don't know. I think we project our past relationships. Clearly, this breakup's been harder for you to get over and these things of, like, it's like, oh, God, just, like, move on and you feel guilty and then maybe there's, like, some things about you don't want to jump in another serious relationship because it's like oh it's so like uh relationships are heavy and there's so much work but keep it casual like we talked about this a past caller like you as you get older and you date more it's easier to keep dating more and more casual you don't feel the pressure to play houses early you don't have to introduce each other to your family and if you do it's not like the end all be all.

It's not like you're marrying them. Just a defining moment or this big stage. You just think your parents just happen to be there. And you're like, hey, this is Jack. You know, like whatever. So just, you know, give him some sort of commitment if you want to date him. Move it forward. And just know that like I said, in three months, if you feel differently, you can always break up.

You know, you're not marrying this guy. But don't be so like, don't be so casual where you're not going to give him any sort of commitment and want to work, work it, you know,

commit to it, be monogamous with him and then, and then, you know, see where it goes and then you can always change your mind.

Simple as that. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, hopefully that was helpful. Just remember, your past relationship is not your problem anymore. It's his. Yeah. No, hopefully that was helpful. Just remember, your past relationship is not your problem anymore.

It's his. Yeah. No, it helps to hear it from somebody else, I guess. Be cold. Be cold. Embrace it. Because he's going to tell you you're mean and you're cold and you don't care and you're in a heartless little wench, but like, whatever.

You know what? Fine. Good. You should be right now. He'll move on. Yeah. He'll be all right. He'll be the best informer.

Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. he'll move on you know yeah you'll be all right it'll be the best thank you bye bye bye bye you know it is hard i don't want to say nick just nailed it but it's pretty much like yeah welcome to it yeah wow wow um dishing it out uh i mean yeah it's it's every like this relationships do give us a lot of baggage for for good or bad and you know it's our it's hard not to carry those onto our next relationships and project those and i think sometimes when we're young and like because the relationships are are heavy and they're a lot of work and i think we just don't know we don't have anything to compare it to yeah and so it's like oh man if i have to date this guy what happens if i don't like you

and yeah and i've got two exes that are gonna yeah um yeah yeah i was surprised all of a sudden she was like oh no i do really like them i know i i got i kind of got confused a little bit yeah but i i mean it's funny it's not funny but we're all in our 20s and if you remember like you know how just i'm still in my 20s i know i know it's so weird i know um i'm in my 30s but uh uh it's just hearing what they're saying like now i'm looking back because i'm looking at my past self in my 20s of like i wish i didn't care so much about how my ex felt when i broke up with him because i wasted a lot of my time just kind of like caring about his feelings and how he felt and i'm like wait why i used to call every family member

before i broke up with a guy and get their opinion and weigh in. Two brothers and a mom and a dad. I'd call them all and be like, I just, and it would like weigh on me. And I feel like a horrible human being when you think back to that. But I'm kind of like Nick, how I would bring people around,

but I would never, like my family knew to never take it serious unless I told them. So if I go, who's that? I'm like, oh, you know, he's my date for today. I broke up with a girl once and we did it for a couple years and i broke up with her but we were still talking we had mutual friends and maybe three or four months after we broke up i started dating someone i started hanging out and i i was obsessed with trying to have my ex girlfriend not find out i was it I felt, it was like,

I really liked this girl and I was, I didn't want to get back together with my ex, but I didn't want her to find out. And I remember like being on my phone and I, in like, I drew, I was, I still live in Milwaukee and I was dating this girl who lived in Chicago and then my ex came down to Chicago and I knew she was in the same city.

And I was just like, and I think about it right now and I'm telling the story, just like how paranoid I was and how much it was on my mind on this date and i was totally single and i was it was so like i was so afraid of her finding out and it's just weird how we do that sometimes and that's telling these stages of breaking up and and and trying to get over someone and but your new relationship will feel the energy from you of you trying to hide and keep. Oh my God, that totally felt like something was up. Something's up. It totally felt like something was up.

I totally wasn't myself. When nothing was. I mean, something was up. I was obsessed with not trying to have her find out. And I just like, it was as if I was like, I felt like in a weird way I was having this affair. Right, that's what I'm saying. Even though we weren't together, I broke up with her.

She knew we were, and I was just so afraid of anything wrong by dating and you weren't being an asshole by any means. Yeah. I was, I was so afraid of finding out and this, I wasn't even that young. I was 29, 30, but it's like, we, we, you know, long when we break up after a long relationship, there's definitely these stages of getting over someone and sometimes it goes past just let's break up dating a guy well dating casually dating and you know young whatever then i started dating my husband now and i remember him being like wait when did we break up i go when did when were we dating oh like wait so bad because i didn't know like the you know no one had that talk or no one or whatever. And when you, that's a whole nother thing.

But when you turn casual dating into, I guess, like how the nurse was talking, how you don't have the talk and then you get all upset when you find out they're dating someone else. I relate to that because I, this film school guy I was on and off with for three years on and off, like, you know, mostly very casual. When I met my husband in third year of college um he would come to all the places like he was still my friend so i'd be like out at a bar with my husband and this guy would come and show up and he was like are we gonna go see star wars or something i remember we were supposed to see a movie i'm like i think i can't do that with you anymore i remember it like it was this weird not ending ending because we weren't actually in a relationship yeah but i felt like since i was starting to actually date someone but we never we never broke up i have definitely broken up with

people i wasn't dating right oh my gosh i did that two points in a way no that was really bad because he looked at me like um yeah or having to break up with the girlfriend that you already broke up with because you started sleeping with each other again but like we're having sex but we're like we're not together we're not together. We're not back together. And then like, you're, you have to, yeah, like the multiple breakup that happens.

Uh, well, ladies, thanks so much for coming. Where can people find you? What do you have going on that you want to plug? If anything? Yeah.

Um, I'm going to head over to sugar taco after this. If you guys in the LA area come, it's on Melrose and right after, cause this isn't going to air. And for like, well, I mean, like it goes every day i'm kidding no i mean it doesn't matter i'm going there what's your address it's right on melrose it's called sugar taco it's all women owned it's a it's a pretty cool um

vegan mexican restaurant um remember nick i didn't invite you to the grand opening i'll invite you to the next one though we got it and also you can check out my podcast that podcast one called the hollywood filter um you can find me on instagram at good stat g-u-t-s-t-a-d-t i also have don't call me mommy on instagram i create comedies if you feel like laughing head over there i have a column in romper right now. It's twice a month. It's called Everything is Embarrassing because everything is embarrassing sometimes. And you could find a series on FabFitFun. I'm doing all year long. And that's on their site. And then I'm going to be launching a new show on telly on November 11th called Off Duty. So you can check it out if you download the app.

And I eat vegan tacos in a taco podcast. And I take care of them. Yeah. Anyways, follow me on Instagram at IamJessicaHall. Yes. I, uh, I, uh. So bad. Me and Sam filmed a fun little short for parents. We did.

Nick played my husband. I loved it. That's when I first saw, like, Nick on your feed. And I was like, wait, what is this? don't call me mommy amazing they loved you thank you they're like can we bring that that whole series back well he's like they're all big fans of nick over there uh well ladies uh thanks for much for coming it's been a lot of fun it's always good to get some other perspective and and sprinkle in some uh knowledge from uh that side of the couch i feel like i gave zero knowledge today you gave

some great knowledge oh my gosh i blocked out a little perspective here and there i i like to mix it in so i appreciate you uh you ladies coming have some fun with us of course thanks for having us awesome well as always guys thanks for. It's been another fun episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget to send us your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com. Don't forget to rate us

five stars on iTunes. And as always, check out Natural Habits at nhoils.com. Do you like your oils, ladies? I do like my oils. Don't just say that. No, no.

Don't just say it. Can I finish? You were giving me a whole perspective of candles. Like the other day, I got like this pumpkin Can I finish? You were giving me a whole perspective of candles. Like the other day I got like this pumpkin spice candle and I was like, I remember what Nick told me. Were you like, ew?

Well, because he kind of enlightened me on the whole. Yeah. So, I mean, this is over beers. But he did. I understood. I listened. See, am I listening? Yes, I totally listened.

So, yes, I definitely have it going all the time. And it helped me with my cold. I had a cold last week and I slept next to one of those with lots of peppermint coming at my nostrils. It felt a lot better. Well, you can check us out at nhos.com. Our diffusers are back in stock. New customers, 20% off, code natural.

Thanks again, guys. Thank you. See you next time. Bye-bye. thanks again guys thank you see you next time bye bye