The Viall Files - E510 Ask Nick - Is Harry Styles Our Matchmaker?

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Welcome back to another juicy and exciting episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re here to bring on our callers and answer their questions about dating and relationships. Before the calls, we talk about Merriam-Webster's word of the year and also reflect on Nick’s answer to a question about being flaked on for dates. We bring on our first caller who needs help breaking up with her boyfriend, again. After breaking things off and maintaining a friendship, our caller wonders how to break up with her ex, once and for all. Next, our caller wonders what to do after getting mixed signals from a cute guy in her building. After going to a Harry Styles concert together, and things turning romantic, our caller wonders what to do next. Our last caller wonders what to do after her extended family has been making disturbing Facebook posts while processing a traumatic event. Now our caller wonders how to set boundaries and to control how much of a relationship you have with your family.  “Things shifted after the Harry Styles Concert…as they do.” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 Check out our new "Introvert" merch at http://www.viallfiles.com today! If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen: On top of all the coziness on the horizon, Brooklinen is offering something extra special for first-time customers. Visit http://www.Brooklinen.com today and save 15% on your first purchase plus free shipping. BetterHelp: Learn more and save 10% off your first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALLFILES. Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Grammarly: You deserve a break from the grind. Get there confidently with Grammarly Premium. Go to http://www.grammarly.com/podcast to sign up for an account and download! And when you’re ready to upgrade to Grammarly Premium, get 20% off. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vow Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vow Files Ask Nick Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda. Ladies, how are you doing? I feel like we have good energy today. I feel very thankful to be here. I expect this every day. Well, then it won't be special. See, when you said that, I thought you were kind of commenting on Nick's energy. And so then I found that response very funny. I'm not coming for Nick.

Do I not always have good energy? I think sometimes you have other commitments that are taxing towards your energy. That was a perfect way of putting it. Preoccupied. Totally. As we all are. I don't always have good energy. Do you feel like?

I don't. No one does. What percent of the time do you think you have good energy? How do you describe good energy? I'm often not upbeat. Same. Same, same, same. My resting state is like a neutral. I operate on a very neutral plane. Flatline. Yeah. Which is great for me, I think. I don't know.

I think it makes other people uncomfortable. Anyway, what's going on? What's new? Did you ever go on that date with a comedian boy? Yes. Funny man? I was just not feeling it. And so I was like, I am going to give it one more shot because this has been a lot of texting and I know we can insert our own emotions into text and I didn't want to do that. We set up a date. He canceled a couple hours before because he said he wasn't feeling well, but then he said, oh, let's do a Zoom date. Okay. And the Zoom date, I was just not, I was just, it was, it, it was the extra data point i needed okay great i ended it the next day he kind of asked me for an exit interview a lot of questions uh but yeah were any of them um

specific what were his questions well the one that i didn't like was will you tell me why you're ending this so i can know what you misinterpreted about me. That's absolute fuck you. Like, to that man, in the phrasing of that question. And I said that. Fuck you? I mean... Not a fuck you, but like a fuck you. Yeah. The tone makes all the difference.

That definitely makes a huge difference. Yeah. It's like, sir, like... You made me get on here and give you a very awkward explanation as to why. And then you asked a question presuming it was my fault. Yes. But somehow I didn't see you for the glory that you are. Yes.

I'm not your mom. Yeah. I love everything about this. You weren't sure. You said, you know what? I'm going to go on another date. He decided to cancel, but good for him. He had a Zoom date.

I love that you didn't ghost him. You gave him the, hey, this isn't working for me. Granted, he wanted to follow up. You gave him the courtesy of that, and now you moved on. Great. Yeah. Easy peas. Responsible dating.

Speaking of moving on, I saw my ex, and it was so pleasant. Which one? I only have one ex. Responsible dating. Speaking of moving on, maybe I saw my ex and it was so pleasant. Which one? I only have one like ex. The down the street guy? Yeah, he doesn't live down the street anymore. Now he lives in K-Town

with his new girlfriend and they seem very happy. Have you met her? No. Well, no. He had one concert that was like important. So I went to that

and I think it was when they just started dating and so he was sort of like after the fact like gave him a quick hug and then it seemed like it like it was kind of a thing where it was like

oh I think he wants to like be in a circle with his friends and I was just like I don't know this is like not really about me. I came, got the ticket, came to the show. Adios.

So I'd like I think I've seen that or I've seen him put his arm around a woman who's not his girlfriend but i so i i don't like i don't really put his arm around a woman a woman a woman musicians um but i don't really like i don't have access to her which i think what does that mean yeah that sounded that sounded like you tried to stalk her she's locked up i just mean like i've never seen her instagram or like there's nothing like I guess it's just like there's so many people who I would have been obsessive about seeing who the next person they dated like after me was.

He's not one of them because there was a lot of like closure and like it's all, you know, in the breakup. Do you think women in general are more likely to stalk a new partner than absolutely absolutely i'm not saying men don't do it i i just don't remember i remember not wanting to see that shit you know i just don't ever remember like doing a deep dive and it's not only the one person it's all of their friends too like all of my friends will be like we're doing it we're doing a deep dive okay why we definitely did it with promising young doing a deep dive. Okay. Why? We definitely did it with Promising Young Man's New Girl. I hate that you call him that.

I claimed to fame. It was not my phrasing. In general, going into a date, the number of women who might Google a person... I'm not talking about... No, but I think it's related. I think if you're just used to... Because I think part of that is maybe a safety component. I don't buy that excuse.

I do. I think maybe... I think we's related. Like, I think if you're just, like, used to it. Because I think part of that is maybe, like, a safety component. I don't buy that excuse. I don't buy that excuse. I do. I think maybe, I think we do the readings. One has nothing to do with the other. I think there's this, like, there's this, like, what I think of as this, like, false perception that, like, oh, information is power. Like, the more I know, the more I'm in control of something. So I want to know everything I can to feel like I have maximal control, which is horseshit. It's not the way it works.

Anyway. Should we talk about the Merriam-Webster's word of the year? Let's. All right. Please. They announced, in this age of misinformation,

of fake news, conspiracy theories, Twitter trolls, and deep fakes, gaslighting has emerged as a word for our time. There was a 1,740% increase in searches for the term this year was a 1740% increase in searches for the term this year. 1700% increase. At Greg Rippo.

1740% increase with interest remaining high throughout the year. The definition, the act or practice of grossly misleading someone,

especially for one's own advantage. Wait, have we changed the definition? That is apparently the definition according to Mariannebster.

I don't think there was ever like one definition in like the pop cultural context. Like I think there were maybe like psychological like in therapy setting definitions, but like. Either way, it's all very confusing. So anyways, what's their definition again? The act or practice of grossly misleading someone, especially for one's own advantage. Okay, so what's the difference between that and manipulation? To control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means, especially to one's own advantage.

So very similar by your own advantage. So basically, we just replaced manipulation with gaslighting. Artful. Well, gaslighting has, yeah, misleading someone, and then this is to control or play upon. But yeah, it's their word of the year, officially, because of how much interest it has caused. I feel like we talk about it a lot on the show.

Is that all they said about it? This is an article from the Washington Post. They went into just the origin of it coming from the film, what that film was like, all that good stuff. It's a word that has risen so quickly in the English language, and especially in the last four years, that it actually came as a surprise to me and to many of us, which is the Merriam-Webster editor saying that. It's a word looked up frequently every single day of the year.

Yeah. I think most words are. I really do. I think. What? I really do I think what I feel like most words are probably looked up every day of the year that's not what this person meant it's I'm being pedantic it's looked up more great now I have another word to look up thanks Amanda that's it did they speak to its usage and like whether people are using it correctly or they just said it's the word of the year i feel like you're fishing you're digging here what do you mean i think from the very

beginning we've always had we've erred towards the more like clinical definition of gaslighting i mean i just like you know we had dr solomon on the show and we talked about what it meant and we talked about the playbill that it came from and like we talked about how it's used you know well kind of unofficially with therapists it's not part of the we talked about how it's used, you know, well, kind of unofficially with therapists, it's not part of the DSM, but like it's a behavior that's kind of been identified. And then again, like it's just my whole thing with the word is, I'm curious, do they, in this dictionary, do they refer to it as a form of abuse? So that the definition I gave was kind of their succinct overarching definition, but their top definition for gaslighting is the psychological manipulation of a person, usually over an extended period of time, that causes the victim to question the validity of their thoughts, perception of reality, or memories, and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator. Well, that's far more thorough.

There we go. Gaslighting is a heinous tool frequently used by abusers in relationships. Yeah, that's my thing. Again, I think that is a very thorough definition. Over time, it would be a big thing. Also, at the end of the day, you have to be able to, I suppose, prove what the truth is and then what the abuser's truth they're trying to convey or manipulate over the victim, right? No? Because a lot of times in these gaslighting discussions and arguments,

it's a matter of perception. Both people have their truth on how they see a situation. And then one person's like, you're gaslighting me because I feel crazy. I love that they did this because I feel like maybe, hopefully, we're bringing more actual awareness to the word because it's a meaningful word that has its place and it has its real victims. And I just like all these things. I think when it comes to dating, I just don't think a lot of people are critical thinkers. I think they're lazy thinkers. And I think it's just like, oh, it's easier to take a simple word that you think captures a feeling that you're feeling and using it without actually thinking about and articulating your feelings and having a discussion about it. And it's just

become easier for people to say the word love bombing and gaslighting and things like that without actually like having a conversation about what it is they're actually feeling and if it actually is. And it just dilutes the word and it takes away from the people who are experiencing these things, you know, whatever. Anyway, like gaslighting is not just manipulation. Love bombing is not just saying I love you too fast. just manipulation. Love bombing is not just saying I love you too fast. For those of you looking to earn host with the most status this year, Brooklinen has you covered from gifts for your guests to interior refreshes. They're the one-stop shop for stepping up any space. If you're wondering where the time went and could use a little help getting ready for this holiday season, we've got you. And by we, we mean Brooklinen. Brooklinen makes holiday hosting so

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slash guarantees. Experts only available with TurboTax Live. I was doing questions with Nick and someone asked this question that I was intrigued by, but I didn't feel like I could answer it thoroughly in a couple of texts, so I said we would talk about it on the show.

The question was, guys keep flaking on me for first dates. Can I put something in my dating profile to help? I thought about this question. Well, first, my question is, I'm curious if a lot of people relate to this. Because at first, I thought to myself, one, I don't think there's anything in putting your dating bio as far as as and then you know my first thought was i don't

know maybe just maybe just it's first dates maybe a lot of people are flaking it's you're meeting people online there's a level of i don't know what do you want like it's like shrinkage you know like in a store there's just a certain level of like hey we just like you know if you run like a grocery store you know your people are going to shoplift that you're not going to catch. I don't know. Oh, totally. There's a certain level of like, hey, there's just plenty of bad fish in the sea, so to speak. You know, you are you're shifting through dirt to dig for gold, so to speak. So like you're just going to have to take the good with the bad. Like cover your bases a little more. Don't put your eggs in. Well, no, just more like if you're going to date via the dating apps, like you just have to have reasonable expectations.

And those expectations are a lot of people are very noncommittal. So it's not you, it's them, so to speak. It's always kind of my first thought when I read something like that as it relates to like someone dating on dating apps and getting discouraged by people being inconsiderate or, you know, flaking and things like that. The only note I would have for this person, and I would say this is if who's initiating the date, that'd be my first question to these people. Who's more often initiating the dates? If it's them initiating the dates and canceling, well, then I think you're just kind of SOL. I don't know if there's much you can, you can do. I think, you I think things like FaceTime dates and Zoom dates are a great way to avoid stuff like that in a sense. I think you just help yourself

avoiding the getting ready and canceling. People dating, anytime people are meeting a stranger for a date, especially if it's an in-person date, it's like, do I want to? There's always an awkward moment. From a woman's point of view, often it's generally like there's safety concerns. And do I want to meet this strange guy? If you're a guy, generally it's just like, do I want to spend money on another date? You know, usually men are still socially, you know, expected to pay for first dates and things like that. That can get expensive. So there's a lot of things that people are just like, do I really want to do this? And I think, you know, Zoom dates and FaceTime dates are a great way to kind of ease people into this, like getting to know each other.

If you are the one scheduling a lot of these dates, if you are on these dating apps and maybe you're taking our advice saying, hey, get off the apps, just try to get a cup of coffee and you're doing that, maybe you need to slow it down and try to get to know them. And again, via Zoom or FaceTime dates in the sense that maybe you're insisting on a date before you guys have any rapport, which is a bit, it's dating on a dating app. There's no perfect world because I don't think people spend three or four weeks texting back and forth to build rapport so that people stop flaking on you. I'm just saying maybe try to get to know these people a little bit more. Maybe try to suggest

like a FaceTime date or a Zoom date or things like that to maybe just before you get to like, let's get a cup of coffee or walk in the park. People have more reasons to get excited about seeing you because they feel more comfortable and feel less like they're meeting a stranger as opposed to getting a chance to meet someone they've already spent 20 minutes, you know, chatting on Zoom or something like that. i don't know i just think those are the little i think nuances people can do but it's most it's like i wouldn't get discouraged and there's nothing really you can do i think on a dating app i think all you can do is try to build some more rapport and then go from there i guess i don't know this is maybe more of a like if you can't beat them join them type thing so i'm really curious because this is my instinct i don't necessarily

stand by it as like this is my advice but i found like the most effective thing to do is like plan dates on the same day like i think there's or the day before like so many people on dating apps are just like when i was on dating apps sometimes i would be like i want to go on a date tonight and then i would just swipe until i found someone who like seemed cool you're more of the adventurous tater though yeah which is why i why i realized like this instinct was maybe not applicable i don't really have anything wrong with it but yeah do you think it's because i'm curious the thing that i was like huh i don't know like why i don't know if i would like stand by this as like a thing to tell someone is like is it perpetuating bad behavior i don't it all depends i don't think if I would like stand by this as like a thing to tell someone is like, is it perpetuating bad behavior? I don't, it all depends. I don't think there's anything

wrong with wanting to go, like in your case, you're just like, I want to go on a date. If I had a note for anyone out there who's listening saying, yeah, I'm getting flaked on a lot. Again, most, I would say it's safe to assume it's not you, it's them. And you're just dealing with flaky people who just made an excuse to like not follow through with meeting a stranger. In your case, you're like, I just want to go on a date. I want to be social. I want to meet someone new. I just want to get to know someone and we'll see where it goes. You have a far more adventurous side. I think that's great, but you know you're being adventurous. And with being adventurous, you realize there's certain risks, right? Risks of being like, I didn't even know if I was interested in this person. I just wanted to meet someone.

It could go terribly bad or terribly good. I don't know. I just think for someone out there, it's the person who's feeling a little like maybe lonely or anxious and hasn't had a date in a while. And they're just kind of like angsty about like planning and getting a date. And so they're just swiping a little bit more aggressively and they're out there shooting their shots and good for them for putting themselves out there. I just think maybe they want to pull it back a little bit and either try to build a little bit more rapport via Zoom dates or FaceTime dates and things like that. So you know what I'm saying?

Because either way, I think you're always going to deal with people who are flaking if you're dating on dating apps. And you're never going to reduce it down to zero. You're just trying to minimize it. So I think it's just being a little bit more honest about your state of mind. You know what I'm saying? So if you're more ambitious, either be mindful of that or just pull it back because you don't want to just be willing to go on a date with anyone unless you're literally telling yourself, I'm kind of open to just going on a date with anyone. Does that make sense? Am I making any sense? No, you are. Yeah, I think well, because I think it's also like, because I feel like so much of like what you talk about, especially when you say

when people are kind of like, oh, it turns out they weren't the one after like, you know, three to seven dates and they've done something weird, you know, and you're like, well, now, you know, you can get excited about someone like it's made me think about how much of dating in terms of like dating with intention, dating, looking for your person and like kind of being invested in that process is about like keeping your own morale high and not getting utterly discouraged by it. And so it's kind of a question of like what's more discouraging for you, like getting flaked on or like going on less intentional dates with people where they're a little less like vetted by the behavior ahead of time. Yeah. It would be like if Allie, who's not as adventurous of a dater as you like got, you know, maybe didn't have a good date in a while or didn't have any date in a while and felt a little like anxious about that. And instead of like telling herself, I'm going to just be more adventurous. I'm going to like do what Amanda does. She didn't like have that conversation with herself, but it just kind of just started

trying more and just got a little panicky and just started swiping right and started matching and then went on the apps and was like, Hey, you want to grab coffee? Like within a couple messages, you know, and maybe did it with a couple of people. And some guy was like, yeah, sure. And then like the day came up and it was like, hey, I'm not really feeling it. You know what I'm saying? But she never really told herself, I'm like, listen, I'm just going to kind of go for it. I'm going to play Russian roulette on this dating app, which you kind of have this conversation with yourself. I always talk about being honest with yourself.

So it would be like if Allie did that without having that conversation about herself. And then all of a sudden these guys would be like, nah. And then it would feel like these guys are flaking on me rather than her just saying like well of course i'm kind of like just shooting from the hip you know type of thing i would love for ali and i like swap bodies nope for dating no no no no no i would have it been a good dick no but i would okay well i would love to see how you would date as me like i would love to to date with your style of dating and like. What is my style? I don't know.

But like, whatever is different for me. Mentally, I don't think she could do it or wants to. I don't have time in my day for that many anxiety attacks. It's just, it's not fun. It's me on the floor. She's a slower burner. She's a slower burner. Anyway, we have a great show for you.

Some great calls. Don't forget to send those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. Don't forget to don't text your ex happy birthday. Still available. Crushing life. People are just enjoying the book yesterday.

Let's see, someone, a sweet note. They posted, went on a girl's trip this weekend. This book was a hot topic. We read some of it out loud, and it hit home for all of us. And yeah, anyway, if you are anything relationship-based, if you're struggling, if you're just, it's a fun read. If you haven't gotten it yet, check it out, vilefiles.com. Anything else do we need? Yeah, very quick breakup song of the week.

Breakup song of the week. Breakup song of the week. So the breakup song of the week is All Over Again by Vincent. I also, I'm fearful that during this segment, I'm going to say bands names wrong because I feel like there's so many bands where it's like you have to be a part of the fan base to know the correct pronunciation. Regardless, thank you to the person who sent this in.

They said, it's a breakup. It's a positive breakup song. More of a celebratory morning of the relationship. Essentially saying it wasn't going to work long term, but that doesn't mean it wasn't beautiful or that you wish you'd never dated them. He says it better than me. So I think that's. And they, this one, they didn't include lyrics, but I really liked the song. What's the song called?

It's called All Over Again. By who? Vincent. And it's, and it's like a really upbeat, happy breakup song. All Over Again by Vincent. Is it a band or an artist? I believe it's a singular artist. Okay.

And because we are getting so many amazing, wonderful submissions, can I do one more quickly? Breakup songs of the week. This next one, shout out to this person for giving a full description and the lyrics. We appreciate you. Crying Over You by Chelsea giving a full description and the lyrics. We appreciate you. Crying Over You by Chelsea Cutler slash the band Camino. And the person who submitted this said the vocals of the song are Italian emoji, you know, like the Italian, top notch. And the overall message of realizing something is coming to an end with someone and recognizing the problems in

the relationship and accepting it's better to feel sadness and hurt of a relationship ending instead of enduring the constant pain and mistreatment in the relationship. Sounds like Victoria and Johnny. And then the lyrics this person submitted are, you know just how to get me, how to take my love and use it against me. I keep wasting all my time trying to make the wrong things right. I hope you like your bed when it's empty because I choose crying over you. I choose silence over being lied to. I choose drinking alone, drowning in my tears in my bedroom because it'll make me happier than you do. I choose crying over you. All right. Well, don't forget to send those questions by the book. Let's get to our callers. Also, don't forget Serena Kerrigan on this week's Going Deeper and maybe Justin Glaze for Freestyle.

But lots to get into on Wednesday for our Freestyle episode. So many hot topics we'll be discussing. Be sure to tune in. Get to our callers. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan, you're forced to compromise. But what if you didn't have to? What if you could get reliable service without a contract and save money? Introducing Total by Verizon, a new no-contract, no-credit-check carrier for you and your family with plans starting at just $30 per month on America's

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Hi, I'm Lily and I'm 26. How can we help Lily? I think I need to break up with my ex-boyfriend again, because we try to be friends, but now I'm in a new relationship. Okay. So before you met your new boyfriend, what did this friendship look like? I mean, nothing crazy. We would just kind of send each other stuff on social media. Like we, I mean, we lived together, we were best friends. So we would do that anyway. So after he moved out, we just kind of continued that. Like we wouldn't talk like daily or talk all the time. It was more of just like, if something came up, we would like text each other. Like, you know, How long did you guys date for? I was like almost three years.

And you lived together? We lived together for about a year. Why'd you break up? I, I mean, I was just over the relationship. I mean, he just wasn't my person. Yeah, I don't, there's really nothing else to say other than that. So he's a great, great guy. You ended it ultimately.

Yeah. How did he handle it? Not, I mean, he was really upset, like sad, heartbroken, kind of in denial at first. The first month after we broke up, he moved out and everything and then randomly showed back up one day at my apartment and just things like that. Gotcha. And so this attempt at being friends, did you suggest it because you felt bad and you figured, well, I mean, you're not my person, but I enjoy your company. Or did he suggest it out of desperation of hoping he could have at least some part of you in his life? Which one do you think it was?

Yeah, I think it was the second one. And I was just kind of like, oh, I mean, if that's okay with you, like I wanted to like not try to like not hurt him any more than I already was, which like in hindsight, that probably just wasn't the best idea. Lesson learned. Now we're going to have to break up with him again. Exactly. How long have you been kind of friends with your ex?

How long have you been broken up for? Well, so we broke up over a year ago. I broke up with him last September. And how often do you hear from him now? Not too often anymore. Probably in the last six months, it's calmed down, which has been nice. He still sent me a birthday gift gifts though, which was like interesting. And he's like sent me gifts like in the past before.

And my current boyfriend knows everything. Like he knows all the, every time he'd like text me too. I'm like, oh, you know. Have you ever talked about dating with your ex? Not really. I mean, yes, he, in the beginning, ex and this new friendship? Really? I mean, yes, he, in the beginning, cause like right when I first broke up with him, like I was, I was single, I was happily single, like, you know, dating, I was on dating apps, stuff like

that. So he would, he would ask me like specifically, are you dating anyone or, and stuff like that. And I would just be like, you know, I'm, I'm dating, but. He has zero interest in being your friend and this has all been a ploy to hope that you would reconsider this is a very human thing for him yeah yeah and which just yeah and i get that and that just makes me feel even more bad and guilty i think at this now at this point that we've got it's definitely your fault yeah yeah i know i want to like kind of let it like let it on you know yeah um you're human it's all right well well-intentioned mistake i suppose yeah what

what do you want going forward you want them just basically not to reach out and not to send you gifts right so the last the most recent thing that happened was i posted on instagram of my current boyfriend and I, and it was like the first time I had posted of us, it was, you know, our hard launch, if you will. And an hour after I posted that, I got a text from my ex and he said, hi friend, with like a little waving emoji. And I responded the next morning and I just said, hi. And he said, morning, it's been a while since we caught up would you be down to catch up later and so that's when I wrote into you and I was like did you ever respond to that

no and I'm just like that was like a week ago okay so I'm like I don't know whether to like not respond or and like that sends a message in itself or you know whether i should explicitly kind of draw that boundary you know yeah i definitely think you the nice thing to do would be to respond because you you agreed wrong or right to be a friend to him and like yeah like it's it wouldn't be cool to ghost yeah i haven't figured it out he might have he like he knows but in a sense yeah i i think i think you just send a text i don't think you need to get together or have some long cup of coffee no i think you just be direct as possible i don't think you'd be mean but i think you focus more on being direct and kind, but more direct than anything else at the risk of hurting

his feelings and more importantly, at the risks of him being mad at you or accusing you of something. Yeah. Okay. So what, what do I even say? Like that's like, he said, would you be down to catch up later? Like what in response, like, what do I say to that? Cause no. in response, like, what do I say to that? Cause no. Yeah. Just be honest. Sorry. I didn't get back to you right away. I, I, I was thinking about your request or your ask. I was, you know, I was considering getting to bet together and, you know, after giving it some thought, like, you know, I've, I don't know if you know this, but I'm in a new relationship. It's really new right now. And I really want to focus right at that. And as much as I care about you as a person, you know, I just, I don't feel like we can

maintain this type of friendship that we had because I want to give that energy to this new relationship. So yeah, I just don't know if it's going to be appropriate for us to continue the friendship that we tried to have this past period of time or whatever words you want to use. But yeah, I think you need to be pretty direct and ultimately say that this is over. You know, the expectation, you know, because that's what I mean. Like the ability to say, let's grab dinner or a cup of coffee. I mean, he's essentially asking you on these dates and calling it a friendship meetup, but they're not. He wants to be around you and spend time with you and chicken on you and hopes that at any point you're going to see a glimpse of something you miss or things like that. And you're basically telling him in the nicest but mostly direct way,

that's not what this is. And it would be inappropriate. And I want to focus on this. And I don't think I should be getting coffee with my ex-boyfriend, someone I lived with and someone I dated for three years because like we're not friends. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. That's really helpful. Thank you. Yeah. So I think you should, you know, key points is letting him know you are dating someone else letting him know that you want to prioritize that and you don't think it's appropriate for you guys to continue the friendship in the form in which you right i just don't i think you just say i don't think it's appropriate for us to continue the friendship that we had yeah yeah i agree and

like i said, like looking back in hindsight, I'm like, man, like I should have just cut it off. Like, like when I broke up with him, you know, but I guess in my head I was like, well, like, I'd love to be on like good terms, like, you know, be running to each other and it's like, oh, Hey, so good to see you. Like that kind of a thing. And it definitely just. Yeah. And you are still open to that. Right. But he never really was like you would be open to running into him in the street or at a party and being cordial and cool and like having a quick conversation. Like, oh, is it? Well, how are you doing?

You're dating someone. Great. But he's not interested in that. The closest thing you got to that is him being like, are you dating anyone? Basically checking in on you, but not seriously interested in like hearing your dating stories and offering some like genuine advice to help you find the love that you're looking for. That's not what he was trying to do. Totally. And so you're still open to that. I don't think you need to say that, but you're saying the type of friendship, like the sending of birthday gifts or occasionally getting together and spending one-on-one time together, like that's the type of friendship

you're not open to. The specific getting together and Like that's the type of friendship you're not open to the specific getting together and catching up. That's not, you're not open to that. Like we don't need to catch up. And if he has a problem with that, you could just say like, I don't think you need to get into it with him.

But if, if you wanted to, you can hit him with the, when he like ask why or makes any accusations and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, blah, blah. Like, well, like what's the difference?

We are just friends. And you can just say, if he tries to minimize, you know, like almost what you used to have and try to oversell the friendship that he always wanted. I think you say some version of, well, I have moved on from our relationship. That relationship was meaningful to me. And it wasn't just a friendship. It was a lot more than that. And it wasn't just a friendship. It was a lot more than that. And I don't want to pretend it was something other than that. And, you know, it's like, I care about you as a person and I value what we had. And I don't want to pretend it was something that it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Because that's what he's

trying to do. Let's just forget that we dated for three years and that we lived together and we talked about our future together and we knew all each other's intimate secrets. And let's just forget that we dated for three years and that we lived together and we talked about our future together and we knew all each other's intimate secrets. And let's just pretend it didn't happen. That's what he wants to do. And so if he pushes back in the nicest possible way, you remind him that it was meaningful. It was serious. You had these. And while it might be over, like, it's not as easy to go back.

And maybe he'll find comfort in that, you know? Yeah. i don't know but um that's what i would do okay all right i will thank you keep us posted we'd love we'd love to know what you end up sending and how he responds absolutely yes i will definitely keep you guys updated for sure we can draft it right now if you want to send it uh should we what do we have to lose now's as good of a time as any all right let's see to like hey sorry it took me like a while to respond or something like that yeah hey sorry it took me a while and you alien man please join in if you sorry it took me a while to respond i was giving your question some thought after thinking it

through i don't think it would be good for us to get together and catch up i recently started seeing someone and i really want to focus uh my energy on this relationship and that one's gonna hurt that sentence gonna hurt but it needs it needs to be said it needs to be said yeah and i feel like that's like that's a nice way of saying it. Not like, I have a boyfriend. No. Stop texting me. I want to focus on this relationship. I want him to hear that this is where your priorities are going.

This is where your energy is going. It's not a waffle. It's not a like, we'll see how it goes. I want him to think that you're invested regardless of how it plays out. So read it back to me so far. What do we got? Okay. We have, hey, sorry it took me a while to respond. I was giving your question some thought.

And after thinking about it for a while, I don't think it would be good for us to get together and catch up. I recently started seeing someone and I really want to focus my energy on this relationship. Yeah. Uh, I've always valued our time together and our friendship, but I don't think it would be appropriate for us to get together and catch up. Given the circumstances? Given our past. I feel like the beginning could be cleaned up a titch just because you say, I was giving it some thought after giving it some thought.

I feel like that can be a little more concise. Just say, sorry for not responding right away. After giving it some thought, I've decided that. I don't think you need to say, sorry, it took me a while. I was giving it some thought after giving it some thought i've decided that i don't think you need to say sorry it took me a while i was giving it some thought after giving it some thought like it just seems a little clunky so that's where the grammar comes in thank you hey we appreciate it we need it to be concise men like it men like it direct all right read it back read it back okay okay wait so hey sorry it took me what did you say again sorry period yeah after giving it some thought after giving it some thought Okay, okay, wait. So, hey, sorry it took me, what did you say again? Sorry it took me a while to respond. Period.

Yeah. After giving it some thought. After giving it some thought. And then go into the rest. I don't think it would be good for us to get together and catch up. I recently started seeing someone, and I really want to focus my energy on this relationship. I have always, I've always, what did I say? Valued?

I missed a word there. Valued. Enjoyed? Enjoyed? Valued? Valued. Valued. No, Valued. Enjoyed? Enjoyed? Valued? Valued. Valued. No, valued. Okay.

Because valued is more honest than enjoyed. Okay. I've always valued our time together and our friendship, but I don't think it would be appropriate for us to catch up given our past. Yeah. I think that's good. I hope you understand. Take care and happy holidays. No, you always call me out. You always say you don't need that extra fluff. Best wishes. No, Nick always tells me not. You always say you don't need that extra fluff. Best wishes.

No, Nick always tells me not to include I wish you the best. I wish. He doesn't like that extra fluff. Kind disregard. Yeah. Yeah. Best, comma. Warmly.

Sincerely. I hope you understand. Yeah. Yeah. I think I hope you understand. That's a good way to end it. One more time reading it there. Hey, after giving it some thought, I don't think it would be good for us to get together and catch up i recently started seeing someone and i really want

to focus my energy on this relationship i've always valued our time together and our friendship and i don't think it would be appropriate for us to catch up given our past i hope you understand amazing sweet send nice all right and if if he he probably will just say he might say nothing and he might say something really passive aggressive and curt i think that's best case that's what we're hoping for yeah uh but if he tries to get into a dialogue that's kind of like what are you talking about we're just friends then i would hit him with uh like we were never just friends. We had a very, we had a very meaningful past and that's something I, and I do value. And respectfully, like I've had friendships that aren't, I have friendships that aren't complicated by a romantic history. Yeah. And I do, and say,

like, I, and speak for yourself, you know, forget about what his is like, that's, I, I'm not capable of ignoring what we had and I want to be able to value what we had and not try to pretend to be just friends. All right. We'll see. I feel like his... I don't know what he's going to say, but it's going to be something sad, I feel like. Let him be sad. Let him be angry.

And this is where you have to be the bigger person and allow him to think of you as the bad guy. This is where you have to let, let go and like not wanting to be the bad guy got you into this situation in the first place. Totally. So let him talk his shit or, you know, hopefully he doesn't say or do anything that make is hurtful, but he's going to be hurting and, and just let him get it out. You don't need to be the greatest person in the world to him anymore.

Yeah. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Thank you guys so much. Good luck. Congrats on the new relationship. Hope it goes well.

Thank you. I'm very happy. Keep us updated on the response. I will. Definitely will. Thank you guys so much. Awesome. Take care.

Good luck. Bye-bye. All right. Thanks. Bye. How's it going? Hi. My name is Renee.

I am 26, and I'm calling in today. So if you guys remember West Elm Caleb, I have my own version of the tale with my neighbor I just met. So we've basically been hanging out all the time. So the point of the story is we live in the same building and that's when things started to get really confusing for me. I've had a lot of guy friends, but this one from the jump just seemed a little different

because of all the time we're spending together. Did you meet in the building? We met in the building. Yes. In the hallway. Dramatically. I moved in like four days prior and I was coming home one day and I saw this like very attractive man and I was like, oh, shoot your shot.

What's up? And so we just became really fast friends. And I think the dilemma I started to basically started to feel myself getting confused is the dilemma that I'm in of just like, what is this man's intentions? Just because we've been hanging out so much and logistically just being around someone that you see all the time, but also having those confusing feelings has kind of led me to this place of like, what's the deal? What, if anything,

do you think he is specifically doing? Because there's the, you find him attractive part. So we know that, that was your first instinct when you saw him. He lives in your building, convenience, he's always fucking there.

And so now you guys have, I'm assuming developed some sort of rapport of like, well, if I'm bored, I some sort of rapport of like, well, if I'm bored, Renee's across the hall or whatever it is. But other than that, other than that situation that you're in, in the logistics of it all, what, if anything, is he doing that is confusing you? We were actually very platonic for the first month and it wasn't confusing. And I was very comfortable just having a new guy friend. And then let's just say we went to the Harry Styles concert and everything changed. Obviously. As one does, obviously. The man, the sexual energy in the room, I don't know, something was in the air. So you went to a Harry Styles concert and fucked afterwards no so i was very

much like i have boundaries like i won't let things escalate but like that's when it did start getting very like handsy and like flirty and then i feel like after that day we like went on a trip together and it was just very everett on the trip was like are you guys together like just very like handsy touchy so in two days you went to a harry styles concert together and then took a trip it was like two weeks later i think we went on a trip okay where did you go on a trip we went to germany with like a bunch of his friends and my friend germany yeah you've been overseas well how many of his friends like four of his friends and i brought one of mine as like backup backup okay and how Okay. And how, who suggested the trip?

The first time we ever hung out, we were like drinking and we're like, wait, this would be so fun. Let's like basically take this overseas. Okay. All right. It was like spur of the moment. We're both very spontaneous people. And I was just like, why not?

Okay. How was the trip? It was fantastic. But there was an incident that really confused me because I met this like beautiful Australian King, obsessed, so cute. And I had a great night and I was like, I'm going to go shoot my shot with this man. Like we're just friends. So like, I'm going to do my thing.

And the next day he had told me that he had seen my location and knew where I was and was very upset. You guys are sharing each other's locations. Yes. How did that come to be? Because we were traveling together. So it's like, oh, you know, we want to make sure we're looking out for our friends. Oh, so this happened on the vacation.

Okay. All right. Fair enough. And then he got like pretty mad about that. Mad or frustrated? I don't know what he would say. He was just like made a point to tell me that he like knew where I was and like, I don't really know what his angle in doing it was, but

then he like hooked up with someone else. It just got kind of messy. And then I was like feeling like I was losing control of the situation. So then I tried to kind of like step back and just like, remember, like, we're just friends. Like I can't let this escalate. This is not how friends act. We can't be mad at each other for hooking up with other people. And yet it seemed like you both were. Were, yeah, for sure in that moment. Have you talked to him about your expectations, each other's expectations? I think we talked about, yeah, we had a conversation after about our friendship and how important we are to each other and just like expectations. But I, to be honest, like when people are drinking and saying things like I didn't feel like that was like fair and mature of me to kind of say like, hey, because I don't know what he was insinuating by telling me like I knew where you were.

It could have been just like a friendly like I knew where you were last night. So I didn't want to take that as some data point. you were, you were last night. So I didn't want to take that as some data point. Like without worrying about sounding crazy or blah, blah, blah. I just want your honest interpretation of how it felt. Like what was his energy? You know, if it felt very like you did this to me, so I'm going to do this to you kind of thing. All right. That's probably what it was. Yeah. That's probably what it was. You know, as someone who's not trying to read into it, I mean, it sounds like there was a hint of jealousy or confusion even on his part of what this was. How old is this guy?

28. Why did you guys go to Harry Styles together? Like, why him? Like, why not any of your many friends? I just love hanging out with him. He's one of my favorite people in the world. He's one of your favorite people in the world and you find him attractive. Yeah. But I don't, why don't you want to date him? I've done a lot of like work on myself of what I want in a partner. And I just think there were some issues that I've

seen that I'm like, I don't see this such as long-term you, you have sat down at some point, at least mentally in your head and considered whether he was a potential dating option for sure i think when i met him that's what i was thinking and then i just realized like early on i felt like there were some red flags that i was and i'm sure he would say the same about me of just like there are things that there's a reason why we're always like we're friends we're friends we're friends and we always talk about how we're best friends which i now understand is like getting into the territory of like the love bombing of it all but i feel like we kind of do that to each other what do you mean by love bombing of it all like we like i don't know there's been mentioned like oh i love

you you're my best friend and i just feel like now in hindsight like that's not something that do you have a strong i mean that's not love bombing even if it's even if you reconsidered it but like people say i love you to friends all. You know, like it doesn't have to be some. And do you care about them? Oh, so much. Yeah. I mean, people don't talk about what love means to them. You know, when I say I love you to people, it can mean a bunch of different things.

And it does mean a lot of different things to certain people. I usually don't have to be like to like to friends. Well, just, you know, I'm not in love with you. You know, you kind of know. You guys aren't you know when i say to a friend love you bye you know on the phone or something i don't have to like articulate like just so you know i'm not in love with you you know i have a girlfriend type of thing you guys on the other hand it's a little bit more confusing yeah because you are and you're you're playing the role of boyfriend girlfriend a lot of ways yeah and you when you met him, here's this like attractive guy.

And then you thought, am I compatible with this guy? Is he a romantic, is he potentially a romantic partner? I'm guessing he had the same discussion with himself. For sure. But you guys never had that with each other. You guys just. No. And that's what you need to do.

And I think there's been like a question mark I've had too of just like us sitting down together and saying, oh, you know, I would really want to date someone. And if I would date someone, they would be a best friend of mine and funny and make me a better person and all these things that I know he says about me, but he's like said to me, to my face of like, I really want to be in a relationship with someone. And then he like describes all these attributes that like, I know I fit in his life. Like, you know, being having a start a strong friendship to start and like someone who challenges him and someone who like makes him a better person, which are all things that he's very generously said about me, which I really appreciate. And I like think the world of him. So it's just confusing when you're in my situation, hearing that and being like, is this some kind of like subliminal messaging or you literally mean like you want that? And it's not me.

Have you ever asked? No, because I just think it's like ruin the friendship, like that Demi Lovato song, you know, what friend? I mean, it's,

you know, if you ruin the friendship, like that Demi Lovato song, you know? What friend? I mean, it's, you know, if you ruin the friendship, no, what you are is you're going to ruin this kind of very convenient, sure, in some ways, friendship. But like when you say friendship, when people say, I don't want to ruin a friendship, it's like you're referring to this like long time friendship, something you really value having your life. And I think you like having them in your life right now. And you like having him in your life right now, and you certainly have valued the moments you've had together. But this isn't a friendship like your friendships that you've cultivated over the years,

and your kind of ride or dies, your girls or long-term friendships. You know what I'm saying? I think we both agree that there's a lot of ways that this relationship or friendship or whatever you want to call it could go south and you guys don't feel comfortable talking right you already can acknowledge that right so if you value this friendship then of at all then you like as opposed to being afraid of risking the friendship you need this is about saving the friendship or the relationship why

is he not compatible why are you not compatible with him? Do you think? I just think like I've dated enough to know that like, I'm very drawn to someone who's very, I feel like it takes a lot of time for people to like understand their own self-worth. And like, I've done enough work on myself to know, like, I want someone to be like a hundred percent committed to me, want to be with me and not playing games, if you will. And I just think some of the ways we act around each other feel like a game and it doesn't feel like where I'm at in my life. And that's why I don't know if I'm just misreading his intentions and he genuinely just thinks we're friends or it is some game. It just feels like this like chase of like,

will they, won't they, will they, won't they? To the point that friends of his have even been like, I'm so confused. Like, do you guys hook up hook up like it's so hard to tell and like i'm not attracted to that kind of like indecision i want someone who wants to be with me yeah but you're you're a part of this confusion you're playing a role like i haven't heard anything from you that suggests that you're doing everything you can to avoid the confusion. And he just keeps like resisting having one and have conversations like you're playing a role in this. Yes and no, because I am in the sense that like, I'm definitely have my flaws. And I've, you know, had nights where I'm like, Oh, that felt too flirty. But I've been very clear to just like, say for right now, like, we are just friends. And this is how friends act.

And this is how friends speak to each other. And I just feel like in his like flirty banter, he like crosses that line in a way that I have asked him like not to do of just very like flirty, like insinuations about like our relationship and like, oh, and that's why people are always confused. And I'm very like, please stop saying that like visibly uncomfortable. Give me an example. Just like making jokes about how like, oh, you know, like, oh, well we hooked up last weekend. So that's like why I have the cold that you have. And like all his friends laugh or something. So he makes up a story about you guys hooking up. Yeah. That's weird. It is weird. And I've been like, please don't do that. And I think, yeah. So like, I wouldn't,

I've never done that or said that. And like, of course, you know, we're really good friends and I, I'm not, I'm not trying to act like, oh, I'm so like innocent. Like, I know I definitely am like a sarcastic person. And I get that that's confusing too. Cause I feel like we kind of like have really senses of similar sense of humor, but I like asked him to just be like, if we're friends, which we are, I need you to like hold yourself accountable and kind of start treating me as like a female friend in your life and not seeing it as like a, a woman in your life that you like approach as someone you met on a dating app. Like I'm trying to get him to just approach us for what we are,

which is just really good friends. And you've said exactly that to him. Yeah. What did you say? I think he's just like, oh, well, like, you know, I'm just messing around and joking and I'm not trying to make you uncomfortable. Like, I just think it's funny. And then you say, and then I say like, you know, I just, I just try to like reiterate without being too like, it's hard for me because it's a new relationship. Right. And I'm, I'm, I'm struggling with the fact that we're even having these conversations with someone I don't know super well. So I'm trying, I think that's part of what I need to do is be more like assertive in what I say. But I just say like, I know you think it's funny, but it's like not funny to me.

It's actually like upsetting me. And then he's like, I don't want to upset you. So like, I'll try to be better kind of thing. I mean, you don't have to try to not make up stories about you guys hooking up. You either don't do it or do it yeah like and that wasn't that's not an every time thing that just like was an example flirting is a little more vague i mean people can perceive flirting a million different things where that's a little more gray but like that is something you could pretty much he doesn't have to try to do he can just stop doing it yeah and he did in his defense good i still it it still sounds to me like you've, I mean, it's good that you said that, but you haven't really sat down and just had an adult

conversation about what this is. You sit them down and be like, can we talk? And I just want, I want to talk about us. It's been confusing to me. That's what you need to say. And I think you just be totally honest. And that honesty, it says, you know, when we met, obviously I found you attractive and I thought about the possibility of us dating and see what he says, get him to be honest. Yeah, I did too. You know, like that you, you both acknowledging that, you know, like just put it out there because what your guys are trying to do is figure out how to like, you're trying to talk about it without not talking about it because you don't want to make it weird. But at the same time, you still want to hang out and then you want to take trips together and go to Harry Styles and like embrace the moment. And you both find each other like physically attractive to some degree.

And there's aspects of each other that you really value. And there's a lot of aspects of each other that you really like. of each other that you really value. And there's a lot of aspects of each other that you really like. And the only thing that I've heard from you about you not being compatible is it sounds like you think he still might be in his fuckboy era. Well, yeah. And I did in your book look for the definitions and I was like, oh, this is hitting. So why don't you just be honest with him about that? To me, what I'm hearing is someone who met a great guy, lots of things you like about him. You're trying to make smarter moves, right? And protect yourself by investing into fuckboys and you see the signals in people. And so you've said, okay, well, he's a fuckboy right now,

so I can't date him. So I'm still going to have to try to have this person in my life via a friendship. And then you try to set some boundaries yourself, which are great. But I think you're also, it's like you're doing all the things right, but you're also not being realistic with yourself. You are still lying to yourself a little bit about trying to make this guy who fits a lot of things that you like and maybe keep him around in your life for maybe when he's not in the fuckboy era. I don't know what your intentions are and maybe they are just to enjoy someone that you enjoy. You first saw him as a potential dating option. And like you said, by your own words, you kind of still just met. This is not like someone you first met seven years ago and you know, yeah, I thought he was cute seven years ago, but now I just see him as my brother and we're just friends and we're

truly just friends. Like there is a world where you guys get pretty fucked up, go to another Harry Styles concert and really embrace the moment. Next thing you know, like you guys are exchanging fluids and you wake up next to each other. Like that's not doesn't sound that hard to believe, you know, and maybe you'd wake up with some regret and be like, oh, fuck, why did I do that? But it sounds like you guys would be capable of of giving into the moment certainly it sounds like he's already down but like you all you need to have is a moment of weakness and it's entirely possible like this is a guy that's not your brother right and that did kind of recently almost happen and i think i i am being kind of like the fact that i'm even ending up in that situation multiple times is definitely a sign that

like I think my like rational brain is like oh make the mature decision that you feel like is best for you in your life and then like my gut and my intuition they're like fighting and I think it's like the head heart thing where I'm like I know that this isn't what I want it to be right now and so I'm trying to like make the smart decisions, but then when we're around each other so much, I just feel like my heart starts to take over and I'm just like getting confused. We're such good friends. And like, to be honest, I just feel like it's this doubt and fear of like, I don't want to lose this person. They're so important in my life. And I just worry that if I am honest about my confusion, even it will like break the foundation of what we have, which is like, he just is such an, just met we've only known each other for a few months and then all of a sudden you're just like i value him so much and i value all the time we spend

together it's like which one is it someone you just met or someone who's a really important person in your life like and i understand you can meet someone and it can be exciting and you can like like when you meet someone and you start dating, like a honeymoon phase. But you're having all of the honeymoon phase with someone, but because you're someone who's trying to protect yourself and you're reading great books, like Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday and listening to podcasts and you're setting boundaries. And I commend you for trying to do that, but you're still lying to yourself a little bit and you're not having these upfront conversations and setting expectations with people. You're still avoiding those awkward conversations a little bit. You're sprinkling

them in. You need to have the conversation with him and it needs to be super honest and super adult and just guys got to be open with each other. Got to put it all on the table. And I don't know how it's going to go. And a couple things might happen. Maybe you realize that you want to take a risk on something romantic. Maybe you guys are both like, you know what? Yeah, we are just friends. Yeah, we both thought each other were hot or attractive. We both consider dating. But now we truly are honest with each other and we just want this.

Maybe you be honest with them about like, honestly, there's a lot of things I like about you. But if I'm being completely honest and not judgment, it just it seems like you're in your fuckboy era. And I don't I'm not calling you a fuckboy. I just think right now you seem to like want to date around. And that's great. And I'm just and here's why I think this. And you don't say it in an attacking way. And I think it should include all these conversations.

And it might this conversation might lead to you guys taking some time apart. And it might lead to some awkwardness. But I think if you really are adult about it, you can still be friendly and friends. But you might not be going to Harry Styles concerts anymore. And I don't think you should be. It just does not sound like a guy who's your homie. Like you're only human. And you're eventually going to give in to the moment. And then it's really going to get messy.

Because then you'll panic. and you'll pull back. If you really want to save whatever this is, I think you really need to have a mature and adult conversation, which is what friends do, close friends who care about each other do. They have tough conversations sometimes and they just put it all on the table. Okay. My asterisk to that though is if I independently come to the conclusion of like, this is not someone I want to date, that's what I am trying to figure out. Like, does it even matter what his intentions are?

Does it even matter what his feelings are? If I wholeheartedly can come to the conclusion of like, this is not a match for me, like that's what I'm struggling with is like, do we still need to have this conversation? And maybe so. Are you truly there? I think like after recently,

like things that have happened and just comments that have been made and things that have been said, I just, I do think I'm very close to getting there. Just like, I really just think we're better off as friends. Like what, what comments?

And because like, this is, you know, you guys are both confused right now and it's, I can see not to make excuses, but like, I can see, it sounds like he's

grappling with the same challenges as well and he's doing insane things that like either don't make sense or sound weird or off-putting or confusing you know because it's it's tough to try to pretend to be friends with someone you also like are kind of into and like kind of living with in a weird way yeah down the hall very like the apartment of it all so that also stresses me out i yeah i at some level you there's a conversation that hasn't happened that needs to happen you know i don't know exactly what it is but i do think you need to just be honest yeah and like to your point as much as we've talked, I feel myself like crafting a narrative that has parts of the truth missing.

Yes, exactly. Yes. So I own that. And I like know that I think it's just like me trying to do the thing that I think will lead to the like path of least resistance of just like, this is the way to fix all this of just like, we're going to be friends and that's how it's going to be. And I kind of told myself, like, if I hit a breaking point of like like we're going to be friends and that's how it's going to be and i kind of told myself like if i hit a breaking point of like i really want to date you like i will say that but because i'm not there it just doesn't feel like the necessary thing to do but that's the thing

because there's still even if it's that one percent you know there's still that part of you that's like maybe not now but maybe in the future unless you see him as a guy, if like the idea of him naked makes you go, okay, just please put some clothes on. Like, you know, that's the energy you need for him to truly be your friend. And unless that's the case, then, you know, I have women friends or I've had women friends that are beautiful people.

And even like, we've even like had a past, but like once we became friends, I truly was just like, you like once we became friends, I truly was this, like, you're my friend. Like this is nah. And it wasn't hard for me to, to do that or feel that way. There was never a chance for us to have a moment of weakness. It didn't matter how much we drank. It wasn't complicated. It was very clear. And I don't know how you get there. And it's going to, it's going to come from being truly honest and transparent and not trying to find it through the past of least resistance. I think you need to face the resistance.

Turn up that resistance. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like you should just be vulnerable with him and say, I really care about you. I've had some of the best fun I've had in a long time. But this is getting complicated for me. And here is why. I have thought about dating you. And right now, I don is getting complicated for me. And here's why I have thought about dating you. I, and I, right now I don't, I don't think that's possible. And here's

why I just think you guys truly needed to put all on the table to see if you can figure out a way to actually be friends and just friends or, or, or take some time off from whatever this is or try, I don't know, but it's one of those three things. And you're not going to get to any of those three buckets by doing what you're doing. And that is to that kind of avoid having tough conversations and like kind of passive aggressive remarks and occasionally like setting a boundary like, Hey, that's weird. Don't do that. Because he's going to, you know, you say that's weird. Don't do that. He's like, what do you mean weird? I don't know. Like, I'm just hanging out with my friend. I'm just being comfortable with my friend. I'm joking with my friends. I'm fucking around.

Guys make like off-putting jokes with their buddies all the time. And if you really want to be his buddy, then that was the recent conversation we had of like, I'm not your like bro. And like, then what are you? What you mean? Like,

what is that? That's what I'm saying. The cognitive dissonance, it's like getting too much. And that's why I do think it's like, I do think I'm going to reach that point. I just think I want, I'm feel very protective over the relationship, which is probably more

to your point. Like, why do you feel so protective over it? You know, like, why is there so much like care and attention there? And it is confusing because I just, I don't think that it's going to work out in the way that I want it to. And I'd rather just kind of. That's why I think you really care about him. I think there's a world in which you would love to try to date him.

And I think your gut is telling you that at the end of the day, there's a better chance he's going to hurt you in the long run. And you don't want to get hurt by him. Yeah. You value his friendship. And so you're hoping to have what you have right now

because you don't want to get hurt. Or just, I don't want the like, this person that I've seen in my eyes, that perception I have to be shattered eyes, like that, that perception I have to be shattered. So like the same thing, I just mean like, if you feel like you're better off with friends with someone, like sometimes it is about just, in my opinion, like not being so focused on his perception of what's going on and ask myself, what do I want?

What do I see in a partner? Who do I see myself with? And if he can't match all those things, then we should just be friends. Or not. I don't think you guys can be friends. I really, from what you're telling me, this friendship, as I've often said, or I say in my book, whatever this is, absolutely has an expiration date. You did say that in the book. You did? It is. For what this is now, at its current state, it has an expiration date. You're not going to Harry Styles concerts with this guy if you meet a guy or if he meets a girl. You're not taking trips to Germany. You're not going on dinner dates. You're not popping in each other's apartments if you meet someone else. It's just not happening. By avoiding these conversations, it's just going to get messy and feelings will get hurt. And ultimately, what I'm hearing is you're trying to avoid hurting each other's

feelings and specifically your own, which I totally understand. But you also care about that guy. And again, you're trying to learn from past mistakes by not investing in people that you realize that I'm getting too many red flags. And while I think you're a great guy, but you can't give me what I'm looking for in a relationship. I love that you can recognize that. But now you need to go one step further. Listen, eventually you're going to have to take a risk with someone. And no matter how many books you read or podcasts you listen to, you can't prevent yourself from getting hurt again or being hurt by someone. You just can't. You're eventually going to have to take a chance and go for it and get hurt and be like, oh, I should have saw that. You just can't. You're eventually going to have to take a chance and go for it and get

hurt and be like, oh, I should have saw that. You're not going to see every warning sign. And sometimes you might see a red flag or two and choose to ignore it and see if you guys can work on it together. You're like, hey, I'm going to communicate with you. This is why I think you can't give me what I want. And he's going to probably try to show you that he can. That might be a bit disingenuous because when people are challenged, they want to rise to the occasion and realize, you know, it's not really for me. But you aren't being honest with yourself about what this relationship is. It's not just a friendship. It absolutely is going to expire at some point. And the only question is, how long are you guys going to pretend to be just friends while doing this and then avoid dating other people?

Because deep down, you know you can't do both. Or are you going to have this conversation now and see if you can get to a place where you are truly going to be just friends? And maybe that's after taking some time apart and really thinking about it and setting some boundaries and figuring out whether you can kind of become homies and be okay with him treating you that way and vice versa. No, I agree. Cause I think what you're, what I'm hearing is like, it doesn't matter if I'm 99%, like I don't want this, even if there is a 1% or even if same with him, like, I feel like part of me and the anxiety of like the validation aspect of like our attachment styles being different. I've been worrying so much of like, oh, that anxious attachment coming out, like what does

he want? And like trying to seek that from him. And I've tried to close that channel and be like, it doesn't, why are you so focused on what he wants? Like, think about what you want. But I think what you're saying is like, regardless, like I should still be having this conversation, even if it doesn't make sense. It's not about focusing.

Does he like me? Does he not? Like, that's not the right question. It's just like, what are we doing and how can we actually proceed organically and naturally before this? I think it's more, yeah. It's like, can we sit down and talk? I want to talk about us. This is how I see us.

This is how I viewed us. This is how I viewed you throughout the process. And at any point you want to speak up and tell me how you feel about us, please. I want this to be a really honest conversation. I really care about you. I value what we've built so far. But like this is, I think we can both recognize that this is like getting more complicated.

Like you shouldn't be with your friend having to like check him all the time and be like, don't do this, say that. Like, cause you're trying to cultivate a friendship that doesn't really exist. There's no playbook for. You're trying to like, you know, build your own friendship, so to speak. in a way that's fitting all your needs and avoiding all the ways that you

could possibly get hurt. And that's just not being realistic. At some point, you're going to have to take a risk and be willing to be hurt. And I don't know if it's this guy, but just be vulnerable and be honest and put it out there and see where you go from there and see if he's capable of having these very mature and honest and awkward conversations. That might go a long way to seeing if he's the type of person who would be willing to have these conversations with you and work through challenges and difficult times, which might give you a little more confidence to take a risk if that 1% turns into 2% or 3% or 4% or 5% or 10% you wanting to do something with him. So you're basically saying even in this moment, even if I know I don't want it right now,

I should still be having a conversation and not waiting any longer. Correct. Yeah. Regardless of the apartment. Correct. You're just going to have to be adults as far as the apartment goes. When we do have tough conversations, he's very receptive. I just think maturity-wise, we're just on a match right now.

I don't think that means we would ever like it's forever. I just think that's why right now it's easy for me to push down the feelings of like, oh, this isn't what I want, but. I'm going to say one more thing and then we have to go, but I'm going to follow up, but I also, I'm getting a sense. I need you to stop trying to figure him out. You know, I think you need to stop trying to diagnose him. I think you need to stop trying to figure him out you know I think you need to stop trying to diagnose him I think you need to stop trying to like tell him how he is or like do his homework you know whether his attachment style or all these things like you clearly have invested and kind of tried to figure out all the ways to like whether he's a safe option to date or not and like you need to stop doing that and you can tell him how you feel about what you see in him, but you need to stop trying to diagnose him.

Like you're some therapist or some doctor to like figure out whether he's a safe option. And I think you're doing a little bit of that. Internally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't say that to him. No, I know that, but you're doing it in your head. I didn't think you stopped doing it in your head. I think you should, if you're going to do it at all, you should do it with him. That's what I noticed, you know, like. Yeah. That's why like, I agree. Like doing the work is fun, but I think sometimes I'm like overth do it at all, you should do it with him. That's what I noticed. Yeah. That's why I agree.

Doing the work is fun, but I think sometimes I'm overthinking it and it's like it shouldn't be all that. So thank you. That's very helpful. Okay. All right. Well, keep us posted. I will.

Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Have a good one. You too. Bye-bye. How's it going? Good.

How are you? Good. What's your name? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Good. My name is Taylor and I'm 25 years old and I need some help setting some boundaries with my aunt. She's on my dad's side, so my dad's sister. For some context, both of her children have really tragically passed away in car accidents. Her daughter in 2016, when she was 16 years old and her son, it'll be a year in December and he was 29. Her daughter and I were born six weeks apart. So my existence is kind of a really big trigger for my aunt. You know, we were really close, like best friends. And, you know, there was

a lot of milestones we should have gone through together. And she's having a hard time handling her grief. And she feels a lot of anger and takes it out on me. And I'm ready to put a stop to it. Interesting. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you seem really fed up, which I can understand. But how long has this been going on for?

It's been eight years since her daughter died that I've kind of been a target for her. It started off as just really sad and depressing comments on my Facebook posts. Things like, my daughter is never going to get to do that. I'm never going to get to do these things. And it's really escalated in the last couple of months. In the springtime, she made a post that said, it's obvious who her favorite grandchildren were. And all I'll ever be is a shadow in her daughter's eye. And then about a month ago is the one that really pushed me over the edge.

And when I sent you an email. So the post says, I should have never had children just for God to kill them and make me suffer. Why could you not take my brother's loser kids? Nobody would miss them. And that's what really sent me over the edge. Oh man. Oh man. Is this a picture of your cousin? Does she still have the picture of her daughter in that profile picture? Yeah. So that's her daughter in the profile picture. And then the male profile that's above hers, that's her son. Gotcha. Okay. What does your dad say about this?

So my dad is a pastor and I grew up in a Christian household and my faith is something that is still really important to me. And he says that we need to forgive her and move on. And I know that there is some truth to that. I know from my heart I need to forgive her, but there needs to be some sort of accountability here. Well, I am not an expert on these types of things. So take anything I say with a grain of salt. I don't know if there needs to, like, what do you mean by accountability? Like, so, so after this post, you know, a couple of days later, she got her dog certified as a

emotional support animal and people were just, you know, commenting, oh, that's so good for you. Like, you know, so happy for you. And she, she just just she does it over and over again and there's no nobody's brave enough to tell her she needs to stop stop harassing you yeah yeah have you tried blocking her i haven't i mean that's step one we're not friends on facebook what is where this comments on facebook right those are like public posts. On her page. Yeah, on her page. Well, I mean, you still blocking her would stop you from seeing it. I don't put it this way. Like, I don't think anyone, if someone read this, right, which I'm certain people did, were you silly enough to read the comments? I did read the comments. What did the comments say? Some people

were saying, you need to stop. You need to get help. So there was, you know, people coming to see that for my brother and I. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. You know, like no one's read these comments and going, yeah, yeah, right. Go girl. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's not looking good doing this.

I think you're seeing people, you know, someone has to put a stop to it. Right. And she got the support dog and they were supportive and positive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is, and that happened shortly after this message, you took that as like, how are we okay with this? How are we okay with her saying this about me? And now you're supporting her and this fucking dog,

which I totally get. But I'm confident in saying that, like that's not what's really going on you know what i'm saying i think these are people are looking at it's two separate things or they're looking at is oh thank god she's not saying crazy ass shit on facebook anymore about other people dying she's like doing something positive which is maybe the support dog will stop her from making crazy posts like this like that's how these people are seeing it. You know what I'm saying? So like, you know, the accountability that you are kind of hoping for, I think you got to try to like

reframe that mentality. I don't think you need to like actively like want her in your life and just look the other way and forgive her and constantly have her around because like what she is doing is affecting your emotional well-being and health and it can only like i'm sure you dealt with loss when your cousin died and i'm sure like that was painful for you and not to compare it to what she felt as a mother but like and then like being compared to that and being felt me being made to feel like that is terrible so like what you need to try to do is try to, however you can, distance yourself and create that separation and create those actual like physical boundaries. Because this is really just about like you setting in and forcing your boundaries. This is not about you trying to figure out how you can hold someone else accountable.

You trying to hold someone accountable, that's going to take you a ton of energy and you're going to feel a little alone, right? Because you're kind of like you are now. You're like, why is it, why is she getting away with this? It's probably like a feeling you might be feeling, right? And then trying to figure out ways to hold her accountable, to let people know what is she doing, et cetera, et cetera. That's taking a lot of your emotional energy. And while it's not okay what she's doing, I think people are just trying to empathize. Like no one, most people have no idea what it's like to deal with the loss of a child, you know, like that.

And two, Oh my God. Like how, how sad and tragic. And so I think when people read this, well, they might say, Hey,

you need help and stop this. They're just like, I don't know. I mean, I'm, I'd be fucked up about it type of thing. Yeah. I mean,

I can never imagine like, you know, the grief that she's feeling, but it's also, it's confusing to my grief too. Like it makes, sometimes it makes me feel like, like I don't have a right to grieve even though I had a relationship with her kids. Totally. I just think this is more about now what's your relationship, what's your dad's relationship with her? Like how actively are they involved in talking? So after that, that post about her brother's loser kids, he said that he doesn't want to see her anymore. But he knows that he needs to because his parents are old and having these operations done.

And he needs to be there for them. But he's also going to see her. He just doesn't want to see her anymore. He's tired of it. But he's still going to be put in positions where he has to. Yeah, which I understand. But the important thing is, it sounds like you have the support of your dad.

He's not ignoring it. You know what I'm saying? He's not saying, oh, it's a big, not like, you know, think about her. And then like you guys are actively hanging on a regular basis and you have to constantly be forced to like face your aunt

and sit in the same room with her knowing that she said that. That's not going on, which is good, right. I just think you need to try to distance yourself however you can. You need to stop looking at her page and you need to... You're going to say that? Yeah. And then you need to ask your friends and families to say, if you see anything, just don't let me know. But you're doing the opposite right now. Now that you know she's capable of saying stuff like this, now you're keeping an eye on her. And I get it. It's like

having a social media following. This is a bad comparison, but this is the closest I can come up with. But having a social media following, people will message me all the time. I often try to not read messages and things like that that but every once in a while through work or people who listen to the show reach out and you know with with my book coming out i'm trying to like share people's like reviews and things like that but sometimes if you check if i check comments too much and like let's say i'll have like a a troll or you know who's like commenting like there's this mentality that i'll keep checking to see if they stopped you know and it's this becomes this kind of, this rabbit hole type of mentality.

And you have that same kind of mentality right now. It's just like, even though you should just not look, you're looking to see if she's doing another one as if you could stop it and you can't stop it. But like there's something in your brain is telling you, you would rather know than not know that she's doing this. And I don't know if that really helps you. I mean, ignorance is truly bliss in these situations.

To start, I would do the simple things like block her, ask your friends and family not to let you know if she makes another remark. I don't believe anyone out there is reading these messages and agreeing with her. She's outing herself as someone who really needs help, who really is suffering, who is really hurting. That's all she's really doing. as someone who really needs help who really is suffering who is really hurting that's all she's really doing you know what i'm saying like it's embarrassing for her

but like no one's this is no one's no one's like reading this and go well who are her loser kids and how big of losers are they and do they deserve like did they deserve no one's thinking that right no one's reading that and actually taking her comment into consideration. This is a woman who is suffering and hurting, and it doesn't make an excuse for what she's did. And I think it just might help you understand why she's doing it so that you can distance to yourself as much as you can. So that you can say, it doesn't really honestly affect me. I mean,

it affects me, but it's the knowing that she's doing it is what really hurts me and other people seeing it. And like you said, it's like, it stops your ability to grieve, right? Well, part of you is focusing your energy on trying to hold her accountable rather than focusing your energy on grieving. I don't know why it makes more sense to hear someone else say, you know, like I can say those things to myself or my husband can or my dad can, but I'm just hearing someone else say it like an outsider. You know what I mean? Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a fresh, fresh voice. I understand. So you just, I think, try to help yourself here in these situations and in any of these actions with your

aunt. I think you should like have that conversation with yourself. Is this really helping my mental health? Is this helping me grieve? Is this helping me heal? Or am I getting invested in these kind of toxic thoughts? Because your aunt has some toxic thoughts going on right now. And you watching her is evolving yourself more than you need to. I know it's tricky because obviously she's literally making some really off-putting remarks about you and saying some really evil things, but like, she's not evil. She's just really hurting. Have you thought, and I don't, like I said, I don't really know your relationship with your aunt, but like, have you ever thought of just maybe like first maybe writing a letter to her without maybe even sending it at first to express

to her how you might be feeling or how she's making you feel that has like that's filled with empathy but also like i i'm just this is spitballing here i'm not saying you should even do it i'm just in my thought i'm wondering write a letter just just express yourself and then read it a couple times and maybe it's worthy maybe run it by your husband or your dad. And then maybe you do send it by saying, this is really hurtful to hear. I don't appreciate it. I'm sorry you're hurting.

I don't want to compare, but like, this is, I think everyone's sad. They were wonderful people. You know, I miss her every day. I miss him every day, et cetera, et cetera. But like, I also miss you. Maybe say that. I miss the person I used

to have and I'm sorry you're hurting and in pain, but I am still here and I hope that you're happy about that. And if we ever can have a relationship in the future, I would love that. But you know, something like that, and that will humanize you to her. Maybe she'll read the letter and do another shitty Facebook post. I don't know her like mental state right now, but I could see that. That's a really good idea because there is truth to what you said. Like I do miss the relationship that we had when I was in college. She used to take me out once a week for lunch and to get our nails done. And I just, I miss that relationship.

And so I think that's, that's a really good idea. Yeah. So maybe you write it. And again, the focus is on empathizing with her, letting her, you mean you want to let her know how much that hurt you, but you understand that she's hurting. But more importantly, like, well, I don't think it's okay for me, you to be in my life right now because some of those words were hurtful. I hope that, I hope that you're able to heal because I do miss you.

And I hope that we can, we can get through this together. Something along those lines. And I would have very low expectations for that letter. But you also might feel like, hey, one, you've done everything you could do. I think it'll make you feel good just to get it out. I think so too. Even in the letter, you could say, those comments really hurt me. So I had to block you because seeing that really affected my mental health. But like,

that's not because I don't love you or it's not because I don't want a relationship with you. I just, I don't want to read comments about wishing me dead, you know, and see where that goes, you know, and just tell, uh, we all love you. My dad loves you. We miss you. We hope we can get through this. I'm sorry you're hurting. If I can help, let me know. Blah, blah, blah, something like that. That's a really good idea.

I really like that. But in the meantime, stop watching her. I know. I'm going to do it. But do you think it's fair for me to not want to be around her at Christmas? Of course. You know, when grandma has everyone else. I think until she changes, I don't think there's anything wrong with you setting some very rigid boundaries and completely distancing yourself from any contact with her whatsoever. I think it's totally reasonable because, like, that might be so difficult for you.

Because like that might be so difficult for you. And how do I explain those boundaries to my parents? Because like I've had, you know, conversations with them about boundaries and they don't understand boundaries because they say their generation never set boundaries. And so to them, boundaries are just an easy way to get out of doing something you don't want to do. Well, you know what you say, you know, I respectfully disagree, mom and dad. Like maybe you need to like update yourself. Boundaries aren't about getting out of doing something you don't want to do.

It's about protecting your mental health and not forcing yourself into very difficult and toxic situations. Like I'm not quitting on anti-whatever. Like God knows I've tried, but like I will draw a line when it comes to people making comments like this around me because it just makes me feel terrible. And I don't want any part of that. And I'm willing to forgive her. I do forgive her. I don't even hold anything against her. But what I'm not willing to do is put myself in the same room with someone who literally wishes me dead. I don't believe her, but she

literally did that. And so I just need to set that boundary and keep that space because it's just affecting me. You can't convince me of a situation. I don't think I'm being the bigger person by like suffering unnecessarily by putting myself in the same room with this person? What are we accomplishing? If she's willing to have a conversation, if she's willing to make some peace, I'm there. I'll have that conversation. I'll give her as many chances as she asks for. But right now, all we know about Auntie is that she is in this really dark place and she's literally wishing me ill will. And that's not something that I want for my mental health. And I think you just explained to mom and dad that. And you can respectfully as an adult disagree with your parents. I'm just going to have to stick to my

guns after I have that conversation with them. And maybe this is a teachable moment for mom and dad. There are some things that we're just not meant to put up with. Yeah, and this is one of them. I know she doesn't mean it, but it's abusive for me to read these comments about me and then put myself in the same kind of space as her only to potentially hear more comments. I don't want to risk that. And I don't think that's me being lazy or just not wanting to do something respectfully, mom and dad. And I think you just kind of say that. I do not think there's any limit to how many boundaries you set around this.

And I think it's always okay. I think all you really need is hopefully to have the support of your husband, which it sounds like you do. Yeah, I do. Yeah. He's too good for me. Yeah. No, but he's good for you. Not too good for you, but have his support. It sounds like you have the support of mom and dad too. They just are outdated parents, which all parents are to some degree. But as an adult, that's the beauty of being an adult. We can teach our parents too. Like you just have to make sure you do it with like a, you know, parents want their respect from their kids. So you just got to do it in a respectful way, stay on your ground. And like anything else, if you stay on your ground with parents, they usually, they might be resistant to it at first, but they'll, they'll come around.

That's really good advice. And I really like the, the letter idea. That's definitely something that I'm going to do. Yeah. Just try it maybe. And just do it at first with like, you're not even sure if you're going to send it. You're just going to write it, see how it goes, you know, see how it turns out, have your husband read it, get your thoughts, but try to be empathetic and understanding, communicate that you're going to set some boundaries with her, but you're hopeful of healing and you're hopeful of rekindling what you once had. And you are so sorry for what she's feeling and experiencing and see how it goes all right all right well i am sorry you're dealing with this and i'm sorry

for your loss because i know you lost people too and um yeah thank you for sharing your story though thank you for the time oh my pleasure talk to you later all right take care bye-bye thanks for listening don't forget to send those questions at ask nick at cast media.com cast with a k serena kerrigan joins us on thursday's going deeper justin glaze joins us on freestyle plus a bunch of burning hot topics we will be sure to get into don't miss it. See you Wednesday.