The Viall Files - E511 Freestyle with GirlBossTown and Justin Glaze

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Freestyle Edition! Today we are joined by Robyn DelMonte, also known as GirlBossTown, to dive deep into the latest pop culture topics and to break down the aftermath from the last season of Bachelor In Paradise. We start things off by getting into the origins of GirlBossTown, breaking media down to a science, and getting people to care about what you’re doing. We then breakdown the aftermath of our episode with Victoria and Greg, react to Johnny’s recent comments about the math, and explain where we think their relationship broke apart. We then bring on Justin Glaze from the last season of Bachelor In Paradise to explain his side of the story of his relationship with Eliza and to explain how the relationship progressed from Eliza flying to Baltimore, to Eliza asking Rodney for another chance. We also get into the Good Morning America affair, the upcoming Netflix documentary on Harry and Meghan, and Reddit Snark pages. We then let on our Texting Office Hours caller who is looking for the best way to make a guy she’s had on the back burner more of a priority. We then close with getting some PR advice and predictions that Robyn has for The Viall Files.  “Is it comfort or chemistry?” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rothy’s: Get stylish shoes versatile and durable enough to wear all the time with Rothy’s. Get $20 off your first purchase at http://www.rothys.com/VIALL. Article: Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit http://www.article.com/VIALL and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Uncommon Goods: To get 15% off your next gift, go to http://www.UncommonGoods.com/VIALL. Don’t miss out on this limited time offer! Uncommon Goods. We’re all out of the ordinary.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @justinglaze @girlbosstown See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. You're crazy. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of The Vile Files. Is it freestyle? Freestyle edition? Yeah. Freestyle. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda.

And our special guest today is the one, the only, Girlboss Town. Also, a.k.a. Robin DeMonte. Yes. The first thing that I was asked when I came in here is if my legal name is Girlboss Town. It's not. But if I wanted to do some sort of clickbaity YouTube to start YouTube, I might just legally change my name to Girlboss Town. You could do that. Like a food god moment. But no, either Robin, Girlboss Town, GBT.

I'm so happy to be here. It's so nice to have you. Yeah, you're my roommate's favorite podcast. So you're like the soundtrack of my house. But I'm really, really excited to be here. It's so nice to have you. Yeah, you're my roommate's favorite podcast, so you're like the soundtrack of my house. But I'm really, really excited to be here. I think you guys are amazing. What you're doing is great, and I can't wait to be a part of it. So for those of you who don't know who Robin is, aka Girl Boss Town, you, well, first of all, congratulations. Forbes 30 under 30. Let's give a... Yeah, that's pretty cool. That's a huge deal. I was waitressing last December. This time last year, I was waitressing.

So to go from doing silverware and rolling silverware to being on Forbes 30 under 30 and under 12 months is insane and such an accomplishment. But I feel like it's not just because of me. I have a really great team and I think things fell into place the way that they did. But I'm very proud of myself. I mean, it was like mostly because of you. Yes, for sure. Definitely. But definitely teams come when you've already accomplished something. Yeah. I mean, it's, I feel weird like talking about myself in a sense, but I can let the people know it was 99% you and now I'm sure you have a

great team around you to help elevate you. But, um but but i will say i haven't seen a lot of hate about forbes 30 under 30 on on tiktok yeah is it true you have to pay to be on it no okay and um i feel like maybe some people can pay what is the hate what is it when there's hate about everything these people are like i didn't know that there was 300 people on forbes 30 under 30 and that there was different categories um all of these tiktokers are paying to be on the list, which is not the case. I had like an interview process back in like June. And then they don't even tell you that you got it. Like I woke up to an email asking me to join a Slack for the Forbes 30 under 30 honorees. And I was like, what does this even mean? And then I saw it like they didn't tell anybody. So it was such a surprise, such an honor. And I did not pay to be on it.

And for those of the people who don't know what you are all about, give the people what they want. Give the people a little glimpse into how you became Girl Boss Town and what is Girl Boss Town and what is all the great and what is the all the great things you're doing I mean I could but I feel like I won't do it justice no for sure so I last year around July I was feeling super unfulfilled at marketing jobs where I was sending email marketing campaigns about health insurance but I had been creative my whole life and I had a podcast called Girl Boss Town right after I moved home from LA, talking about pop culture, all things pop culture. That kind of died down because my last host left, but I still kept a social media presence for Girl Boss Town, but not on TikTok.

After I quit my job, I was going to go back to school and I had two months of like open time and I was just bartending during the day. So I started posting on TikTok about social strategy, creative development, and PR moves I would make for my favorite celebrities and brands. And then those celebrities and brands started reaching out, adding engagement with it, which grew an audience. But then they were like, okay, no, we don't just want to comment on these things. We actually want you to do consulting for us. So on the back end of Girl Boss Town, I do a lot of social strategy, creative development for brands and celebrities. And then forward-facing, I do a lot of pop culture, hosting. So I do a little bit of both, but a lot of what I

do is behind the scenes and I kind of like it that way. But definitely love marketing, love branding, and it all comes from being a fan. I mean, I could break down my process of coming up with these PR predictions and these PR moves, but I think it comes from just being a fan and a massive consumer my whole life of pop culture. I was reading Us Weekly instead of Hooked on Phonics. And that with a marketing background just got me here. And some people just have it, you know? I think some people just have a knack for certain things. It's just kind of in their DNA to like...

Yeah, and the psychicness is weird. I don't really get it. But I've been doing these things called PR predictions where I'll sit down and I'll predict a celebrity's year. So I did like, I think, 60 of them last December. And throughout the year, the things that I've predicted have all started to come true. For example, I predicted Khloe and Tristan having a baby via surrogate, the sex of the baby, the name of the baby, the month that it was going to be born, and the fact that Tristan wasn't going to be involved. Wow. And I don't know how I did that.

Do you think, well, do you think you're a psychic or you're just really good at what you do? Because I'm guessing the start of your process is what makes the most sense? If I were on their team, what would I do? makes the most sense. If I were on their team, what would I do? Like, you know, the Kardashians, we know that like, obviously they care about media and they make decisions based off of, of how to be in the media. Right. It's not to say that all their decisions in life is, is disingenuous about that, but clearly they are making moves based off of that. I'm guessing you probably put that. Yeah. It's trend forecasting. off of that. I'm guessing you probably put that... Yeah, it's trend forecasting. You put that in your brain

and kind of compute how it's going to turn out. And I will say, I've heard from a very reliable source that I have been in the family group chat. Of the Kardashians. Yes. That's even more successful than Forbes under 30. They're talking about you. Yes, they are.

And I've met them and they're very sweet and kind. And I, yeah, it's trend forecasting. It's being a fan and it's understanding media. It's not psychic. If I was psychic, maybe I wouldn't be 28 and single. But, you know, that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here. I feel like especially at the beginning of the Kardashians, like, rise to superstardom,

there was this big narrative of, like, they don't do anything. Like, why are they so famous? And I'm curious because it seems like a lot of what they did at to superstardom, there was this big narrative of they don't do anything. Why are they so famous? And I'm curious because it seems like a lot of what they did at the beginning was just this mastery of the public's attention and intrigue. And I'm curious if you have insight into what sets them apart so clearly from all these other celebrities, reality personalities. Well, I think it comes down to a formula. And I think it comes down to, in the beginning, we wanted to watch them because of their family dynamic. And we became invested in that. And then we became like, we felt like we could trust them. We felt like they were our friends. We each saw each other and at least one of them and their family dynamic.

So then that builds trust and that builds an audience. So then when they start to expand in business, you become invested in that subconsciously rather than people just trying to push product right away. And I mean, they've been on the air for, what, 15 years. So I think if you think that they're famous for nothing, okay, you can have that opinion. But I think they've grown massive businesses and are extremely successful because they understand the media. They have it down to a science. And that's why we're all still talking about them X amount of years later.

Yeah. Yeah. They're dripping with talent. I think it's just a matter of how you perceive that. What do you perceive that talent to be? Yes. Kim even said that in an interview once because someone asked her about how does it feel to when people say you're famous for being famous? And she said, it takes a lot of skill to make people care about you for this amount of time. I mean, get your fucking ass up and work. Get your fucking ass up and work. Get your fucking ass up and work. Get your fucking ass up and work. For sure. If you were to give one piece of advice to somebody who's entering this industry from your field and perspective, what is the best piece of advice somebody gave you and the

worst? Something they gave me. About having longevity in the industry. Well, what someone gave me is none of this really matters yeah which is in the reality tv spaces was helpful for me especially when you're when you're going through it and you feel like you're the world's against you and you're getting criticism that was pretty good uh advice the worst advice i got i'd have to think about it nothing really comes to mind in terms of like yeah i remember someone telling me that and that was terrible but i feel

like when you start to get into the industry there's so many people in your ear saying different types of things i had advice about doing certain shows that i ended up not doing and i'm glad i didn't because i wouldn't be sitting here today if i would have said yes to yeah to that you know so you know the advice of i think rupaul said this too like never turned down an opportunity to be on tv i don't know if that really applies for people like me. I think you can say yes to certain opportunities that don't point your arrow up, but rather point your arrow down, so to speak.

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Well, I'm excited to do this episode with you. We have a lot to get into. We have Justin Glaze with us zooming in and a few, and we'll be asking him about his experience recap the Victoria and Greg interview that everyone seemed to enjoy and listen to. Well, everyone listened to. Most of you seem to enjoy it. But I empathize with both of them. I can put myself in both of their shoes. I've been Johnny before.

I've been Victoria before. That's my main kind of take on the interview. I just don't think it's that hard to believe a 29-year-old Victoria went on a beach and met a guy she didn't even know existed, was in a bubble, got engaged in less than three weeks, and quickly found out that this relationship wasn't for her and tried to get get out of it but it was very difficult because breakups are messy and it's also not hard to believe that a 25 year old johnny was resistant to wanting that relationship to end and they both had to once they left the beach and got into the real world they both knew that like no matter what happened between them they would

have to face a live well not a live well a live studio audience and be interviewed by jesse to palmer and talk about like what's been going on and that's a lot of pressure for both of them and i'm sure that both played a role in their decision yeah i just don't think it's all that complicated or that conspirator is conspiratorial a word did i say yeah absolutely i just i just really just really don't think that. Victoria's a smart person. That much I know. And what was her big plan? If it was some sort of plan

or to go and to have something going on with Greg. Greg doesn't come to fake an engagement and then she was going to break up with Johnny the whole time and then go to Natalie's birthday party at my house where there's a bunch of bachelor people and hope that no one talks you know what I'm saying she was always honest with Johnny like it was her big plan to like tell Johnny about Greg and then tell Johnny that she called him like I know it's messy but like what was the plan but like it's messy but take the cameras outside of it this is happening in every bar in new york city boston college like this is a situation that happens daily with the cameras

taken out of it it's not this big dramatic like telenovela like just because cameras are involved and there wasn't engagement after three weeks that doesn't happen all the time but these are normal emotions and feelings that people go through every single day but like i said kind of similar to the kardashians people are so invested in it because they feel like they know these people which is totally understandable it makes great tv great ratings and great podcasts but at the end of the day obviously he's gonna have a little bit of resentment towards her like when your ex moves on first whether you're on after the final rose or sitting on your friend's couch talking shit, you're going to be a little like,

ugh, like, well, that was fast. Like all these types of things. But at the end of the day, I think it's very normal. And I think actions speak louder than words and actions speak louder than notes, app apologies on Instagram. And if Greg and Victoria are going to work out,

great, they're just going to continue doing what they're doing. And I don't think it's the end of the world. I think they both presented themselves great on the show. I think they both told their story. I was going to ask, did you watch the reunion of Bachelor in Paradise? Yes. What PR advice would you have given Johnny? And what PR advice would you have given Victoria before entering that environment?

It's hard because there's a difference between the public's perception of your relationship and what actually happened, which is at the point of the show. I think from a PR standpoint, they were both really defensive. Yes. And maybe that wouldn't have been my approach,

but at the end of the day, if that's your real emotions, PR advice or not, that's how you're going to come off. But at the end of the day, if that's your real emotions, PR advice or not, that's how you're going to come off. I would say post finale, my PR advice is to like talk less and just like I said, actually speak louder than words.

Like don't be as defensive. If this is a real relationship between Greg and Victoria, that'll speak for itself. It'll last the length of time. And then people will be like, okay, well, I guess, I mean, that was kind of weird how it went down, but it worked out and it was great. Exactly. If it works out, people don't ultimately care. That's what I told them. And if it doesn't, then well, it won't matter anyway. You'll be more upset about

your breakup than this. Yeah, exactly. And for Johnny, like being 25 and trying to figure your life out while also being engaged on TV and then being embarrassed on TV. Like, there is so much. He wasn't embarrassed. He felt embarrassed. I don't think Johnny, like, embarrassed himself. No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. Like, he felt embarrassed.

He felt, had resentment. I think he just needs to figure out, like, himself. I think he needs to pull back a little bit. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. But also, at the same time, at 25 at 25 like i had no idea who i was if i were johnny in this situation i would have just been just as angry and just as resentful i probably would have been worse yeah i you know but i think so you know and tyler tyler went uh his boy went on the chicks in

the office podcast that he did that was a wild pot That was a wild interview. And it's just, I don't know if you saw it, but Tyler, Johnny's boy, Fran and Rhea really asked him like, hey, so everyone's been asking you about the tea. What's the tea? Here's the moment. What's the tea? And Tyler goes, he literally goes, yeah. So everyone's been DMing me about the tea. So anyway, so the tea is like, well, I've heard everything you guys have heard that was literally what he said so after all that Tyler goes on a podcast they're like all right what's the tea and he's like so I've heard everything you guys have said which is like no which was what we've been saying the whole time if I may be cryptic if he really had the tea they would have aired what he said at the reunion he didn't know anything

there's that too yeah but he even just confirmed he was saying the tea is there is no tea like you know when people are like the secret is there is no secret yeah so come on he says that and then he goes on to say you know he does this like well you know it's just i just you know it's just that we're all like family and he gave this whole. It's like nobody gives a fuck about that. I guess we're fine. We're family. Sure. And then he.

But then he goes on to say how he knows that Johnny didn't call Victoria those names because they talk a lot. And he knows the type of guy that Johnny is. It's like, OK. I mean, listen, I get it. He's he's having his friends back. That's there's no problem with that. But he doesn't know with a fact. He's like, I know for a fact. I don't know for a fact that Johnny did say those things.

I wasn't in the room. I do know Victoria was in the room and Tyler wasn't in the room. So there is that. And where there's smoke, there's fire in a lot of cases, I believe at least. And I have very good friends who were in relationships for a super long time and then when they broke up and the girl can finally be honest she's like well actually this is what happened this was what happened you don't want to tell your friends and your loved ones a lot of what happens behind closed doors especially when it's negative and chances that things work out in the end but I'm not saying either party's lying I'm saying it's like no it just got messy that's the thing and like what was Victoria just throwing wine glasses over the place while johnny's is sitting there like you know chilling you know working on his rap career

like that yeah i mean you know what i'm saying they both behaved badly and that was kind of the point but then tyler goes on to say how he knows for a fact that johnny didn't say those names because him and johnny like talk a lot and then he goes on to say how that if Victoria is going to accuse Johnny of these things, she better have facts because you don't go on national television and accuse someone of these things if you don't have facts. And I my mind exploded. Like I was like, am I taking crazy pills? I just like, wait, I don't know if people like it just to like make sure people understand this whole thing started when and again I understand where Johnny's coming from if I were in Johnny's shoes I don't know if I would have handled myself better and I don't think

anyone there was like hey Johnny maybe you don't like want to like air this on a national television like you know everyone in that in that environment is like, speak your truth, you know, get out. Yeah, that's the point of it. And fine, I have no problem with that. But Johnny came out on stage first and had a good 20, 30 minutes to share his truth. And that truth included, you know, comments and kind of assumptions and presumptions about Victoria's character and accusations that were enough that whatever Johnny said in those like 20 or 30 minutes to gas up the audience and like be sad and make his

implications that when Victoria walked out on stage, she was met with booze and people yelling out cheater. And I know that wasn't what people all saw, but like they edited in like some like, you know, like, it was silent. What would you do if you're, you know, like you can accuse Victoria of not taking the high road. She definitely did not

take the high road, but like, you know, Johnny put baby in the corner, so to speak, and baby fought back. Yeah.

It's just like Tyler saying she better have receipts. She better have whatever. I'm sorry. It's giving the cutie scene. Sir, who's interrupting her every, like, four words she gets out of her mouth of a story that he heard from someone who heard that something happened at the party. Like, where are your receipts? What would you do if you were being accused of cheating on national television?

No, I was saying it's giving the cutie scene with Cole and Zeneb. Like, very rarely in reality TV can they find like the actual proof that something went down. But at the end of the day, like think of it's so hard to watch TV and like actually genuinely put yourself in these people's positions. But like you're saying, if you walked out to all these booze and people yelling cheater, I would be like, I would flip a table. Like I'd be Teresa Giudice. Like I would be like, fuck this. Like this is not true. And think of your intimate fights with your significant other when these types of accusations are going down without cameras. Like, it's just, it's crazy.

Yeah. So. It was just so, like, as someone who was there, Johnny coming out first, saying his whole spiel. You're at a disadvantage. My friend was sitting next to me. I mean, I was coming in with some knowledge of the situation because we had some knowledge. But my friend sitting next to me who knew nothing before Victoria even came out was saying, this is not looking good for her. Like everyone was team Johnny. And obviously from a producer's standpoint, they made him come out first.

Sure. It's calculated. He's got the story. They award heartbreak on that show. And that's fine. So, yeah, Tyler doesn't know anything. He is as much confirmed and they both behaved badly in that relationship. They both behaved like maybe not their best self on the finale, but I get where they're both coming from. But it is a fact that

Johnny, if you're like who threw the first punch, so to speak publicly, it was Johnny. And he might have done that under the protection of being sad and heartbroken. And he was just like, you know, I don't really know. Like, I want to believe her, but like, who really knows what you can believe these days? You know, like, that's an accusation, you know? And then he accused her of emotional cheating.

And it's just like, all right. But like, it's just not that hard to believe that. Do you think it was calculated, though? By who, Johnny? Do you think like calculated though by who johnny do you think like his emotions were real or do you think this was like calculated in a sense i think they all play into it a little bit yeah yeah you know i think he was to say that i think jenna for sure his emotions were real he was genuinely sad i don't think he faked heartbreak but i'm sure on stage they all they all perform a little bit but yeah I just don't think it's... I know if you're

listening and you, like Allie said last week, you're going to identify with certain people. I've been cheated on. I get it. It's easy to connect with someone. But this situation is not the same as your partner for six months texting someone else and talking about their feelings and having an emotional love affair. There's a difference between going on a one-on-one date and learning how somebody pays their taxes. Like when you take somebody and put them into the real world, like shit changes. Yeah, that's a great line. But also the one thing I will say about the podcast with what Greg was saying that I was kind of like, like maybe I wouldn't have worded it like that,

was when he said he was upset when he came back and found out that she was engaged because he wished it was him. Yeah. When like six weeks earlier, like he was in another relationship and they were texting each other about who's going to Paradise. It's like, okay, like I can get it if she came back. And you're like, oh, like that sucks because like I kind of wanted to pursue that. And he's like, well, I wish it was me getting engaged to her on the beach.

It was kind of like, well, weren't you just saying before you guys were friends and nothing happened? I think that little part of the story was a little weird. I was like, okay. But I just think it was kind of. I think they probably had a crush on each other. Yeah, totally. These are two hot people who just kind of knew. So it's like, I think maybe we should be talking.

And being someone in Bachelor Nation. I'm hot. You're hot. Let's be hot together. Kind of. I need that to happen to me. And in Bachelor Nation, I don't think it's that. Being in this world, I don't think it's that crazy to.

Are they guilty of coveting each other? Maybe. Yeah. But that doesn't mean anything was going on. No, no, no. I don't believe that and i don't doubt that greg probably once his relationship ended with what that was going on and she's in paradise he's probably thought he probably thought the whole time i hope she comes back single yeah you know totally and he you know and i'm and she didn't but just like how he worded it he's like i

wish that was me proposing to her i I was like, whoa, okay. And Victoria has acknowledged that she, on the episode, that she probably didn't handle that whole breakup the best way. She probably could have been cleaner. She probably could have been more assertive in the breakup. But that's not super easy if you've ever tried to break up with someone. Who doesn't want you to. Who doesn't want you to. It's really hard. It's met with resistance.

Yes. And you're just like, fuck. You know? So it's a little messy. And I know Johnny and I had some back and forth on Instagram. I always hate it when people call it a feud. It's just like we had an internet exchange. Johnny did a Q&A, decided to, he got asked about if he would go on this podcast.

He doesn't have to share any of the questions he's asked. He chose to share answer that question for whatever reason and you know it was like i don't what did he say i don't know like something about math or oh he's not adding up he said geometry he said like hashtag geometry beach he was like the math was that like kind of implying that the word like the story i don't know like it wasn't adding up so it's just like all right so i just put it out there yeah you're welcome to come on i want to ask you questions uh made a joke about let we let the other people do the math johnny posted something else he did he did dm me oh i won't share exactly what he said but it was he basically i'm paraphrasing but it was like you know we both

know you don't want me to come on for the like, basically the sake of my friend Victoria. To which I replied, I have a spot open on the 12th at 930 in the morning. I'd love for you to show up. It should be in person. He never responded. I mean, which is just, I think, kind of handling it wrong in a couple of ways. And this is no hate or whatever. But it's like to go against you and this podcast who gave her side of the story and gave her a platform, wouldn't you want to utilize that as well?

It's up to him. But I think if I were Johnny's friend, I'd probably tell him not to do it. Yeah, no, 100%. But for him to come at you for having her on and then not go on, it's just kind of contradicting. I saw it. He commented on one of my posts and was just like, thanks for speaking for me. I'm like, I'm just asking people questions, Johnny. He's done two other podcasts.

You're welcome to come and speak for yourself. And he's welcome to come on and speak for himself. I think that years from now, Johnny is going to have a different point of view on this story. I think he's going to heal and move on and probably think you know i've been in johnny's shoes before like that put a bad taste or you just once you heal like i've said this before like when caitlin broke up with me uh the second time around i was so mad at her for such a long time and i felt like i very much had a right to be mad for how things played out and the choices she made years Years go by, I become The Bachelor.

I can empathize with her situation a lot more. I have since thanked her multiple times being like, thanks for doing it the way you did because I wouldn't be sitting here if it didn't happen that way. I think he's going to heal and move on. And I think he's going to look back and probably wish he didn't go after her or question her character because johnny didn't at johnny didn't come on stage and say he didn't talk about their fights he didn't talk about their therapy he wasn't he could have easily said if johnny because johnny was like on these other interviews i didn't want to i didn't want

this to happen i didn't want to get messy it like, you didn't take her call. You acknowledge that she called before the finale. I presume to try to avoid that. And that's fine. You didn't have to. You're upset. I get it. But he didn't say, hey, I don't know what happened between her and her and Greg, but I can say that we had our own problems and it was really messy. And we even tried to get therapy and we just couldn't, you know, like he didn't focus on that side of the story. He focused on, you know, what he focused on the worst case scenario of what it meant for Victoria to move on quickly. And that's fine to express himself and that's how he felt, but that's not him trying to avoid a messy. Yeah, I'll just say one thing.

I feel like this is kind of a weird analogy, but sometimes my sisters would take my clothes. We would fight over it. And I'd be so mad that she borrowed this shirt that she didn't like ask me and I'll get so caught up in like, well, you didn't ask me, you didn't do this. And then I wouldn't think about,

but I wasn't gonna wear that shirt anyways. It doesn't look the best on me. And honestly, she can have it. But sometimes when you get something taken away from you, you're more upset that something was taken away from you than what got taken away from you. The loss of it. So it's like he is, has every right to be upset that he thinks something got taken away from him, whatever happened.

But if he actually like took a step back and was like okay what what what am i losing a relationship that isn't healthy isn't gonna work and is actually gonna let me be with somebody who's right for me like that might not be as much of a loss as i'm acting like it is so i mean that's just kind of i agree i i hope they both choose to move on johnny is welcome to come here but honestly i think he, yeah, they've kind of said their piece. And so it probably is good for them to just try to be happy. And I'm sure we'll see Johnny on the beaches of paradise. Or on Raya within the next couple of weeks. One of the two.

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Don't miss out on this limited time offer, Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary. Justin, welcome. Good to be here. Thanks for having me. How are you doing, pal? I'm doing well. I can't complain too much. How's your heart these days? We always like to find out how our reality TV bachelor people are doing.

It's hanging in there. It's open. It's along for the ride just like me and waiting to see what's next, I guess. Okay. Well, we appreciate you joining us. We wanted to chat with you because I felt like a lot was left unsaid or maybe just unshown between the story of you and Eliza after she went to Baltimore to try to pursue a relationship with you. And you're my friend, but I also like, you know, I gave you kind of a hard time on the show about like, I felt like you

were a bit abrupt with her. Like she came all the way to Baltimore and put herself out there. And before anything else, you were kind of like, nah. And then it just kind of ended. And that's kind of where things left off. And then we saw Eliza basically pursue Rodney at the finale, which seemed a bit off, but I'd love to have you shed some context for us about like what happened.

Bring us back to eliza goes to baltimore she knocks on your door what was your thought how did i go down and are we are we not seeing things that happened uh and i would love to hear your side of the story yeah so there was definitely a lot more that went down that day and that night in bal and the weeks after that. So when Eliza came to Baltimore, as you alluded to, I definitely was a bit abrupt and rather precipitous in my response to her. And, you know, she kind of filled me in on what went down, I guess, a day or so prior with her ending things with Rodney. And so in that moment, as we saw, I literally hadn't unpacked my bags yet. I hadn't talked to my parents about anything that had transpired in Paradise. I was still processing everything.

And so I admittedly was quite guarded and wasn't necessarily as open as I probably should have been to the idea of, you know, rekindling things, because as we know, it was only, you know, two or three days prior to that, that, you know, things had ended with us in paradise. And so, you know, in that moment, I think because it was still fresh, her showing up at my door, you know, I was in kind of protect and defend mode for, you know, my heart and what I was feeling in that moment, because, you know, obviously I was, I was hurt by the rejection of being dumped, you know, now for the second time and, you know, her showing up was kind of a reminder of all that had just transpired a couple of days prior. And so I was in this mode

where it's like, no, I'm skeptical. I don't trust the situation. I'm going to protect myself. And in doing that, you know, I let pride get in the way of, you know, potentially opening had explained to her in just my last relationship I was in a scenario where you know this person wanted to walk away from me every time things got tough and anytime there's any adversity it was I'm out of here and I was the one who was always hoping to have that conversation to bring it back in like let's talk about what we actually want we want to be together and it was just so easy for this person to kind of walk away and come back and I told Eliza I didn't want to keep putting myself in that cycle of allowing people to choose someone else and walk away knowing that Justin's going to be there when they come back when they've made their mind up right so I had all these things going on in my mind um my previous situation and this situation with Eliza it all got kind of convoluted and I and I

was defensive and I didn't like I said allow myself to kind of open up and put myself in her shoes and see how grand of a gesture it was for her to come back to Baltimore but that conversation was about three or four hours and as we you know went back and forth and I got to understand where she was coming from and she kind of understood where I was coming from, I became more open to the idea of trying things out. And what I told her is that I was still very skeptical of the situation because I'm not dumb. I know how great of a guy Rodney is and you know every america loves him right and so i knew going into the situation that i was potentially going to receive some backlash for being the one to come in and potentially interrupt you know a great thing that they had going on and i was willing to endure all of that you know for the sake of pursuing what i wanted and that was eliza and so

it kind of hurt me that she wasn't necessarily able to block out you know the noise of everyone in the house and american everyone wanting them to be together and kind of go with what she wanted. Um, but I did empathize with her because I have, you know, a tendency to, you know, kind of go with what people want to do instead of what I want to do as well. And, you know, we kind of landed on, okay, let's cameras aside. No, I didn't want to feel pressured into making a decision with the cameras in my house. I wanted to see if we could really make this work in the outside world. And so I told her that I was willing to take it day by day and see if we could really give it a shot. Did you guys, did she leave after the cameras left?

Did she like, did you guys, did you like, hey, I'll call you later? Did you guys keep hanging out or what happened after that? Yeah, so after the conversation, when we kind of got on the same page of we're going to give it a shot in the real world, cameras wrapped up, they demiked us and the producer that was there she was like all right you know we we're really rooting for you guys and we're going to give we don't usually

do this but we're going to give you some off camera off mic time at this point we're literally you know we're sitting around chatting laughing eating sour patch kids you know having a good time and they were like okay we gotta film the scene of you know eliza walking down the street whatever she came back in and they were like you know uh the flight doesn't leave our flight doesn't leave until you know call it six seven o'clock whatever it was an early flight the next morning so they were like if you know justin if you want if you and eliza want to hang out at your house just don't go out in public you can't be seen but you know we want to give you guys the nights to just hang out get to know each other enjoy each other's company and just bring her back um you know

later tonight and that's what we did. Did she spend the night? No, I took her back at around like 4 in the morning. 4 in the morning? What were you doing until 4 in the morning eating Sour Patch Kids? No way.

We were a little disobedient. I had to take her to my favorite ice cream place in Baltimore. I had to. So she stayed in the car. I ran over, got some ice cream, in Baltimore. I had to. So she stayed in the car. I ran over, got some ice cream, came back. And we honestly were just chilling, watching movies, talking, getting to know each other. And it felt weird. It felt like we were like breaking rules because it was the first time that we were able to just kind of be with each other with no cameras, no mics. And it was great. It was very natural easy and you know it wasn't awkward it kind of picked right back up where we left off in paradise and it gave me a lot of hope that okay

this is our first taste of real world justin and eliza and it felt good so you know i had hope that potentially um despite the distance you know her being in la me being in baltimore um did you round any did you run did you guys hook up? Rounded your bases? Anything happen other than watching movies? Any shenanigans? Nicholas. No, I mean, we had a good time.

Okay, when you're watching the movie, sorry, what was the setup? Like, where were you? Were you sitting? Were you touching each other? Did you watch a movie you've both seen already? Or was this a new movie you're interested in watching and paying attention to? So it's crazy.

We were actually, this is going to sound so weird. And I actually was super pumped that she was into this. I love animals. And we were like scrolling through Netflix trying to find something. And we couldn't find a movie that we were both interested in or one of us hadn't seen it yet. And we came across, I forgot the name of it. But there's like, I think it's called Baby, Baby, something about like baby animals. It's kind of like those, one of those nature movies.

It was Morgan Freeman narrating it. Exactly. It was literally Barack Obama narrating it. Barackama was the soundtrack of you guys hooking up i forget the name of that all right anyway so yeah it's one of those like animal documentaries and we were literally just watching that um and it was it was great all right and so like right here there's a tv in front of me we were on the sofa what happened we know we were we were you know very comfortable very cozy um and again it just felt it felt you know um how'd you leave it at four in the morning yeah i dropped her off uh

you know we had talked about you know plans for hanging out you know and she did um in our conversations you know that night she was like hey like i feel like you were kind of playing a little hard to get for the cameras like what was up with that and i was like, Hey, like, I feel like you were kind of playing a little hard to get for the cameras. Like what was up with that? And I was like, no, like that was, you know, my genuine response was that I didn't want to feel pressured into giving you like this astounding yes to jump back into your arms. Um, because how I was feeling, you know, at that point in time, I thought it was valid and I let her know that, you know, I'm a bit of a realist. And, you know, I just, again, I was skeptical and I wanted to see if this could work in real life, you know, cameras aside. And so, you know, that was my answer. And so we left with making plans of, okay, well, you know,

I'll come out to LA to see you. You know, we're going to talk, we're going to do this, do that. And, you know, I even asked her if I had given you a yes on the spot, what do you think our next couple of days and weeks would look like? She said, you know, we would we would talk every day. Probably we plan to hang out and go from there. And so, OK, well, by me saying, let's take it day by day. What do you think that I mean by that? And she was like, well, I would imagine we would talk and plan to hang out. And I said, exactly. That's exactly what I intend to do. And I want to show you that my actions are going to align with my words there. And that's exactly how I want to go about this. Let's talk every day. Let's continue to form a relationship and plan to hang out and I'll see you in LA soon. And so

that's how it left off when I dropped off at the hotel. And then did you guys ever hang out in LA? hotel and then did you guys ever hang out in la or so the weeks uh the days and weeks after that we did talk every day and so uh about two and a half weeks after that greg grippo had hit me up and he was like hey man i got invited to go to uh this mlb like major league baseball all-star event all-star weekend events like do you want to come with me andrew doesn't want to or andrew can't come and if you can't if you don't come like me? Andrew doesn't want to, or Andrew can't come. And if you can't, if you don't come, like I probably won't be able to go. I could tell he really wanted to go. And I was like, Greg, I'm not gonna lie.

I don't really care about these events, but I have been talking to Eliza about going out to LA. So, you know, I could kind of kill two birds with one stone and go out there with you. But let me call her to see if she's open this weekend, available this weekend, because if she is, I'll go. If not, I'm probably going to pass on it. So this was like a Thursday, I believe. wasn't thursday i called her i was like hey um what are you doing this weekend and she was like i don't really have any plans like why what's up and i

was like i think i'm gonna come out to la to see you she was like what really and i was like yeah i was like greg has these events i told him i'm not really that interested but i figured you know i'll go with him and my plan is to hang out with you. So let's hang out. And she was like, oh yeah, no, you should definitely come. And so, you know, we kind of planned out whether, you know, we should go somewhere like in the valley, low key where we wouldn't be seen or if we were just hanging out at her place or whatever. But either way.

I'm just teasing you. Well, I don't know that much about LA, but that's like a more discreet, like, right? It's not really. People talk shit about the valley but you know i thought it was just like you can't go to the valley and be like no it's like greg and victoria going to rome be like no one's gonna see us yeah okay yeah i'm just giving you shit man but anyway you're hiding in the valley uh either way it was like let's let's get a drink i'm not from la i'm I'm like, this is what I'm told.

I'm like, all right, well, it's out in the valley. I'm like, all right, I don't know. So either way, it was like, all right, let's grab a drink or let's just hang out at your place and go from there. So that was the plan. And, you know, I got out to LA and I guess I got there on a Friday, Thursday or Friday, you know, hit her up Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And, you know, for whatever reason, we weren't able to connect unfortunately. And, um, we didn't see each other and, and didn't speak. So like she didn't, like you reached out and nothing happened. Yeah. I reached out a couple of times. Um, and I guess, I don't know if it was a timing thing or other plan i'm not sure why would it take greg inviting you out to la for you to go out there to see her rather than just

like you wanting to go out there to see her yeah no great question so i i felt a bit of hesitancy i had i had mentioned going out there together i'd even called a producer um the one that came to baltimore and i was like hey listen like i know we're not engaged and i know you guys are rooting for us and you want this to work is there any way that we could do like a happy couples airbnb or something like would you guys be willing to do that for us i told eliza hey like i'm trying to hook this up i'm trying to get out to la and there were times where i would you know try to do like little cute things like you know we were in baltimore and the ice cream flavor she loved was s'mores right and so she was feeling down one day and obviously

i couldn't ship the ice cream from this spot in baltimore but i wanted to like send her some stuff to her house and you know she was kind of weird about you know letting me know where she lived or anything like that and so i didn't i didn't at the time feel like she was kind of all in on us doing something you know and i would it's funny you mentioned greg and victoria she was like you know eliza was like i'm super homesick and she grew up in germany so i was like hey listen like would you be down i'm very spontaneous i was like would you be down to go to germany or like do a trip throughout europe for us to hang out you know like screw it right and so i had kind of tried to initiate these one-on-one meetups and i wasn't didn't feel like i was really being met halfway so i figured hey

i can go out there with greg and again i was kind of skeptical i was like if something like this does go down where we don't hang out at least i'm not kind of stranded in la by myself but greg had the understanding where hey i'm gonna go out there but my priority is to see Eliza. So I might not be with you all weekend. Um, but as a safeguard, at least I'll have somebody to be with if things didn't work out. Gotcha. And then you just went to LA and sounds like maybe she had maybe decided to move on at that point really, or, or just didn't work out. Yeah. And there was a point throughout the weekend where, you know, and I was showing my friends, you know, Mike was with us as well.

I was showing them the messages and I was like, hey, guys, I was like, is it, like, is it me? Like, is there, how do you guys think I should be handling this? Because, you know, they know me and I was truthfully at a place where I was like, I want to make this work because Baltimore was, you know, after the cameras and everything left, it was great. And, you know, after the cameras and everything left, it was great. And, you know, I did swallow my pride. I was just like, hey, because, you know, hours and hours go by without without hearing from

her. And I was like, hey, listen, I don't want to be dramatic or anything, but I kind of feel I kind of feel weird about how this is gone. Like I've been in L.A. for a couple of days now and it doesn't feel like, you know, you want to see me that much. And if that's the case, that's totally fine. I just want to know where you're at with things. If you do still want to meet up, I'd love to. But if not, like just kind of let me know where you're at. And she was like, oh, you know, I think it's just a miscommunication.

I thought you were out here, you know, because you're with Greg and you guys had some events to attend or whatever. And I was like, OK, you know, that's totally fine. But I do want to see you. So, you know, do events to to attend or whatever and I was like okay you know that's totally fine but I do want to see you so you know do you want to hang out still or not and she was like yeah like how about tomorrow and then tomorrow was my last you know that next day was my last day in LA and um that's when I was meeting up with Nick and Natalie for dinner um we were at the home run derby we're getting dropped off because Greg was going to have dinner with Nick and Natalie and I told him I wasn't going to be able to attend because i was going to meet up with eliza and when we got dropped off i told her i was like i'm on my way i'm going to

get an uber to your place still didn't know where she lived at this point but i was like i'll uber over i'll pick up some wine some snacks and we can just chill and i got to dinner or you know i ended up having dinner with nick and natalie because i hadn't heard from her in a couple hours and while we were wrapping up dinner i got a text from her that said um i actually think it's too late i'm gonna go to bed and then we didn't and that was and that was it yeah how did you feel when she made a play for rodney at the finale again i mean obviously that that sucked to hear right but i think it kind of you know it's it's why i was a bit skeptical because I was afraid of a scenario where, you know, she would flip flop happening again, but I really, I mean, I can't fault her

for, for feeling that way. I mean, nobody except for Eliza knows what it felt like to be in that position at that time. And it's, I feel like it's so easy for people from an outside view to kind of look and be like oh well Eliza should have done this she should have done that right and you know we all make mistakes we're all out here doing the best we can but you know even me watching back it's like her and Rodney had this you know this this great connection and I and I can't fault her for you know trying to go with what she wanted at that point in time I would like to believe when she came to Baltimore you know she really did want to see things through with us and

perhaps i made her feel a bit rejected in my response and you know maybe she had some time to reflect i'm not sure and and realize that rodney is who she wanted but it did suck to hear but at the same time it kind of gave me some reassurance that me not diving in headfirst perhaps um was wise on my end. I'm not sure. I also low-key think it was like poetic that you guys were eating Sour Patch Kids because it's like first they're sour, then they're sweet. And your biggest fear is on people flip-flopping on you.

And sometimes with our biggest fears in relationships, we end up mirroring that to make ourselves not get hurt. So in a sense, your biggest fear was people flip flopping their emotions when in reality that's kind of what you did as well too because like when she first came in you were like no i don't want to do this like this is too much like i got rejected but then you're like okay but i'll fly to la and come and see you i want to see you i want to work this out um and there's no fault to that either i'm just saying sometimes i feel like in with both of you guys you guys were both kind of

flip-flopping emotions a little bit that's how i see it i think you know i appreciate you sharing justin and because that's i just see it at this point where if you guys really ultimately i feel like this is like the cutest love triangle of all time between the three of you guys and ultimately i just don't know if it ever like i don't know if there's a match between, you know, Eliza Rodney or you and Eliza. But yeah, it's just like someone needed to really put themselves out there, you know, not hedge their bet. And everyone was kind of hedging their bet. And if there was a chance for anyone to really do that, someone had to be, you know what, I'm going to say yes, sis, even though I could get hurt. Even though, you know what, I'm going to say yes, even though I could get hurt, even though, you know, maybe this is not an equitable situation, you know, I'm going to

respond, I'm going to do this because you said that, and I'm going to do it this way. And, you know, I think that just shows that maybe people, no one was really, it wasn't going to work out, I think, you know, I think maybe you can leave with some solace that it played out the way ultimately it was going to with the three of you. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah.

No, I mean, I totally agree with that. And, you know, for me, I always, it's a constant battle of, you know, being selfless and also knowing when to be selfish. And it's like, it's almost like, you know, what is at what juncture does being selfish in the pursuit of love actually inhibit you from finding it? And I, and I feel like in Baltimore, I was being very guarded and selfish and like, no, you, you broke up with me, you chose Rodney and I'm not faulting you for that, but you have to understand how I feel instead of, you know, I was very closed off instead of allowing myself to take a second to realize, okay, Justin, this is something you still want.

Forget all that, put it aside, swallow it. And like you said, just lean in and go for it. And you know, that's not what I did. And, you know, we saw what transpired because of it. And so, again, you know, not once will I ever fault Eliza for, you know, any decisions that she made. I know how tough of an environment it is. And, you know, Eliza is a sweet person. She, you know, she, I have nothing bad to say about her, right? It's a very tough situation she was in. And, you know, perhaps she needed me to be more direct in that situation to give her that assurance that i was serious about it and because i wasn't you know what happened happened you know all right man well i appreciate you jumping on here and uh and give us giving us some more

insight into this story and um i uh i think it's all gonna work out yeah yeah yeah man we'll all be okay i appreciate you are you uh do you think you'd go back on work out. Yeah. Yeah, man. We'll all be okay. I appreciate you. Are you, do you think you'd go back on paradise? I'm done. I'm done, man. I, I don't,

I don't think I, I mean, yeah, I just don't think I have it in me anymore. You know, never say never, but at this point, um,

it would, it would take somebody very, very special, um, that I haven't had the opportunity to connect with in real life. Who knows? Maybe one of Zach's ladies. Yeah. You know, who knows? Yeah. You never know. But at this point in time, I'm going to give you a 99%. 99. So, all right. We'll see you there. We'll see you.

Yeah, right. That 1%. We'll see. All right, buddy. I appreciate it. All right. Appreciate you guys. Take care. All right. See ya. Do you have any final thoughts on this I think that something happened

between the time that she left Baltimore and the time he got to LA I feel like there's a little bit of a

missing missing piece to that story but exactly what you're saying it's like nobody was fully being like look

I'm down. I want to do this. Nobody wanted to put their neck on the line. And like, I maybe wouldn't have either because I'm always afraid to get hurt. But I mean, yeah, it is what it is. From a girl's point of view, if I was talking to a guy,

I flew to Baltimore. With cameras. With cameras. I did that. And then the only time he came out to see me was for the Home Run Derby. I would be like, okay, like, I would kind of be like what she said to you. Like it was a miscommunication. I'm like, oh, I thought you were out there with Greg. Probably passive

aggressive in a sense. Um, but I just, it, it strikes me as, yeah, the communication issue or they're misinterpreting things. Cause again, even like we heard the story of you guys being out to dinner, he's in his mind waiting to hear from her he doesn't even know where she lives so it's impossible for him to come she might get a text saying i'm at dinner with nick and natalie and she's like well fuck this yeah i wasn't even invited to dinner so i guess yeah i'll go to bed yeah totally and i think i if i'm eliza like you fly out there yeah i would probably just be like you know what maybe this isn't worth it no exactly i would be like i'll take my s'mores ice cream to go and get the fuck out of here yeah no hard

feelings but and eliza had pointed out like she you know whether you agree with her or not she wants someone to chase her and she wants someone to make that grand gesture and justin did and that's what i think we all agreed at the time. That's what drew her to Justin. And maybe she that's her regret of kind of playing into the the moment rather than like, who do I have the best chemistry with and who who might I be most compatible with, etc, etc. I don't fault either party. Like, I think, yeah, it just wasn't meant to be. All right. Moving on. to be all right uh moving on yeah well i think in terms of like relationship timelines so the good morning america amy tj situation has been i think captivating the nation for anybody who's not fully up to speed co-anchors uh amy and tj on good morning america the third hour um have been there basically several photos were released of them holding hands in Ubers.

He had his hand on her butt by the car. Like the photos that indicate not just a relationship, but like an ongoing kind of very lived in one. He tapped it a few times. I mean, literally not. Came out wrong. That too. And so people were and, you know, both of them are married, although they have since

sort of revealed that they split from their spouses. There's a lot of kind of questions going on about the timelines of this, of like, when was the separation from spouses versus like the two of them actually getting together. And most recently, as we were recording this episode, ABC has decided to pull them from the air for now. For now? While they deal with the situation. So they won't be hosting GMA3.

Correct. It is not known who will, but for the meantime, they will not be. But they're not fired. No. Well, so the ABC president was saying that they didn't technically violate company policy, but it's still drawing a lot of attention

that they think steals focus from like the serious work that they're doing when they were like we can't handle the gossip in the hallways like it's affecting workplace culture sure yeah i had the pleasure of being interviewed by tj and amy when i uh was promoting don't text your ex happy birthday uh and i wrote her i wrote amy like a personal note uh and hoped that she would read it. So maybe. What was the note? Oh, it was just like, hey, I love. Your co-host is cute.

Shoot your shot. No, it was just like, hey, thanks for. Don't text your co-host. Happy birthday. It was just like, I don't know, something benign. Like, I appreciate the opportunity. You know, if you get a chance to read, I'd love your thoughts. And, you know, great to see you again kind of thing. But what was the chemistry like when you were with them in person great chemistry between the two of them yeah not like

I was like I wasn't like oh these two be but they were very nice and very yeah but they certainly had great chemistry that's for sure I mean when it comes to the question of timelines and relationships I feel like lines are always blurred But you can't really argue the timeline theory because it's like, regardless of if they were on the outs, what are the odds that they're both on the outs in their relationships at the exact same time and then they both leave their relationships at the same time and then they start hooking up?

Like, there was shady shit going on with 1000%. I mean, this is just so wrong. Because it was going to be like, oh, and like, you're on a show with somebody every percent i mean this is just so wrong because it's gonna be like oh and like you're on a show with somebody every day there's bound to be chemistry because you guys are on a show but there's no chemistry ali and i are secretly hooking up i feel like a lot of times that type of environment if you're not in the good place with your partner and the person who you sit next to every day is giving you what your partner lacks then i can see why something

would happen. I just don't know from a, I mean, from a PR standpoint, this is a fucking mess. But I think it's different when there's children involved. Because at the end of the day, where my mind goes are the kids. And that's probably where like the parents' minds should go as well. But it's already a PR mess. The pictures are out there. And then not only the pictures are out there and it's not like, okay, let's take the time to figure out what we're going to do about this. They have to go on the air the next day

next to each other. It's like there wasn't much time for them to figure out how are we going to combat this, which is probably why it got taken off the air. Obviously, the news is like, okay, let's figure this out. But they also probably were turning to their teams or the people to deal with it to be like okay we need to figure this out how are we going to go there's got to be so many like potential segments that would be awkward to talk

about on gma3 they talk a lot about relationships and dating people have been clipping that and putting it on tiktok like the awkward moments like the woman kissed her wife and her name's amy yeah yeah kiss i mean kissed her husband and her name's Amy. Yeah. I mean, kissed her husband. And he was like, oh, like, have you seen that TikTok going around? Like on the air? Yeah. There's they've been clipping moments already. The awkward.

My question is so clearly the statement is saying, you know, the gossip, the whispering in the hallways. We want to, you know, cut that. We don't need that in the studio. slip the whispering in the hallways we want to you know cut that we don't need that in the studio but i feel like for the most part it's pretty obvious when someone's having an affair or if someone's fucking like you think no one knew yeah i don't know i i thought i heard something like people maybe knew so then i'm like i was gonna say already happening i think the whisper the quote-unquote whispering is not what they're really concerned about. Not at all.

Workplace whispering happens all the time or water cooler talk or whatever. But when it's national media and then the workplace conversations are in response to the national media, then it becomes, I think, a major distraction. Well, they made a little comment on air right on friday and they were saying what a week i can't wait for the weekend yeah but i also think that a lot of times with affairs like this and when they're like not afraid to be holding hands and people know about it like people around them know about it and and maybe their spouses knew about it and you never know like the fine the fine lines, fine details or whatever. But, yeah, I don't think the West Point.

So did someone hire a private eye? It looks like from the photos that were taken of them, like, on their weekend away, especially, it seemed very private eyes. And a lot of people are saying the marathon they ran together is, like, either. They did a lot of training. Wow. Yeah. In many regards. When they were interviewing me for the book, I remember Amy just made. And I didn't think much of it or anything like that, but she just kind of made a, like a lot of people say that.

It's like, oh, maybe I could use this book. I don't remember, like, I didn't know her relationship status. I didn't know she was married. So you're the reason behind the affair, essentially. I gave her the book. You heard it here first, folks. No, absolutely not. But I just remember she made a very charming,

I just took it as charming towards me because she was interviewing me. And then I was like, oh, well, here's a personal signed copy. I hope you take a look. So that was kind of fortuitous. What do you guys think is going to be the next step? I think that one of them is going to be the next step? I think that... Yeah, you tell us.

I think that one of them is going to step down. I was going to say, they can't bring both of them back. No, one of them is going to step down. I think it's going to be... His name's TJ? TJ. I think it's going to be TJ. He's going to take a step back.

She will continue. It won't die down right away, but I don't know if they'll both publicly make statements no tap apology i think they might try to just keep on going if they're happy in a relationship if they like yeah it would be one thing if someone discovered they had an affair but they were no longer together i think that's when they would issue an apology but if you're still actively with that person i doubt you're really gonna apologize also there it's entirely possible that maybe they were had maybe they had been separated for a long time yeah that does happen in these type of situations you know if you know a relationship

isn't working just like legally like it takes a while for like separations like morning show jennifer asson's character wasn't you know they they had an unranged marriage so to speak but i think he'll step back speak but i think he'll step back and i'll think he'll make a statement about stepping back but it won't give all the details and it will be more about him stepping back him stepping back because he doesn't want to be a distraction for the show the real news the real news that they're covering yeah etc etc and then how did how does he make it back he has to go somewhere else he has to leave he has to leave abc news altogether or at least just that show yeah yeah he's gonna leave that can't be How does he make it back? He has to go somewhere else. He has to leave ABC News altogether.

Or at least just that show. Yeah, yeah. He's going to leave that show. They can't be seen together. Now that they've taken them off, I don't think we can put them back up there. Yeah. Maybe he'll stop by the Red Table Talk. Maybe he'll give a statement here or there, but I don't think he'll be going back to ABC News.

Okay. Okay. If you're looking for a host. Yeah. Right? Girl boss. okay if you're looking for a host yeah right girl boss um i feel like on the topic of just like kind of pr while we have you there additionally balenciaga another story that is like gripping the nation but in a much more upsetting and disturbing way i'm sure everybody is up to date on this but for those who don't know uh balenciaga uh ran an ad that had some

extremely disturbing imagery and motifs included in them. I haven't seen any images. You haven't? No. Not just one ad? It was multiple. Multiple photos. Yeah.

And it was multiple different photo shoots. Over years. There were different child models. Over years? Yes. So it was clear that the campaign and the general marketing push this brand was going for, this was not just a one-off situation like this was a much more orchestrated and planned and for example obviously there was

these plush plushy toys stuffed animals with bondage that children were holding which is absolutely foul and disgusting and very wrong but some of the other examples from the past were like an office shoot with like a model on the table and all of the documents on the table were from lawsuits that have to do with child pornography. I don't know if I want to say that. Child pornography and kind of vile, disgusting cases. So it's much deeper than like the one campaign that just happened. one campaign that just happened um and people are looking i mean the internet detectives are going finding all of these examples which is incredible work that they're doing because it's like in the background of things but it's i feel like it's like high school english level analysis in terms

of like there is additionally there was a role of like sort of caution tape that had valenciaga on it and there were two a's and people realized a ball is a demon who possesses children. Like it was like really crazy evolved. And from a PR standpoint, there's been multiple no-tap apologies from Balenciaga, from celebrities that have worked with Balenciaga. But a lot of those apologies are pointing the fingers in different directions.

Balenciaga themselves are pointing the fingers. That's what I'm saying. The lawsuit against the ad agency, I'm like, I'm so sorry, but you approved it. Yeah, I've done a handful. I've done multiple campaigns. You have the company hires the ad agency. The ad agency is the one who actually books you and usually works with your team, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then you go there.

They're always, I hear it a hundred times. Well, we have to check with the brand. We have to check with the brand. We have to check with the brand. We to check with the brand we have to check with the brand we have to run by the brand we got to run by the brand so like the idea that balenciaga at any point wasn't fully read into what even if the ad agency came up with the campaign it got approved a company that that's balencia size like several different decision makers and several different approvals and then once they are going through the campaign, they were always checking with, that's just how it works.

Yeah. Every, it's just like industry standard. Yeah. Like, are you trying to say there was some bad actor who had an agenda of making this happen? And like there,

there was utter incompetence such that nobody caught it. Like, no, it was clear. Balenciaga was just busy making fashion and then they let their advertisers do the work. They saw it at the same time as everyone else. But it's so it's so incredibly dark and so incredibly disturbing

that obviously there's a difference between cancel culture and actually canceling something that is like fucking disturbing and disgusting and we point fingers all the time at influencers who like, fuck up. We all need to take that same energy to these types of brands in these types of situations and just cancel them. I mean, cancel might be the wrong word, but it's like, stop. It's just these people who put the stop. Where do they go from here? There's nowhere. I don't think they can go anywhere from here. Do you have any insight as to like what they possibly could have been thinking? Because I think that's on everybody's mind, even though they haven't taken accountability

and acknowledged that like clearly there was someone who thought this was a good idea for some reason. Do you have any insight as to whether it was always just a, oh, because it's any publicity is good publicity? No, this is predatory, not PR. because any publicity is good publicity? No. This is predatory, not PR.

I don't think that this... I think the person who was behind this, it's much, like I said, much deeper, much darker. This is way beyond PR and media. This is like sick, very sick. Some high-end decision makers had a really ugly sense of humor. Yeah. If you want to even call it a sense of humor,

I just think it's disgusting and gross so yeah i think they wanted to call it that yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah well kim kardashian has said um that she is you know she obviously released a statement where she was saying i'm going to re-evaluate my relationship and since she's uh canceled outfits that she had coordinated with them for the future uh Declined brand, campaign deal. She was going to do a campaign in 2023 that was in the works, but then this all happened. They pulled it.

So it does feel like at least there's like a definitive action. Like, I don't think anybody's trying to argue on the side. But to say, I mean, I'm Kim Stan. Love Kim. But to say I'm going to reevaluate the relationship. You think it should have been a harder no. Yes.

I'm done. Well, her statement was, I've spoken to the team and, you know, I believe this will never happen again. Like, it was still a very friendly. Oh, shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it was a very friendly notes app apology. Yeah.

Do we want to hit the Royals? Yes, please. Because I feel like. I love the Royals. We had a we had have you seen the new trailer yes of course what do you think because i i'm not as like ali ali i think it's better than the bachelor like it's real life oh drama like it's like it's like when people like watch and love reality tv like, but aren't into the Royals. I'm like, you guys, this is reality TV on crack. They're giving everything.

It's genuinely- This is like OG reality TV. Yeah. It's insane. Hundreds of years of history. And it's all so meta. It's so crazy. Oh, my God.

The second that Kate and William's wedding happened in 2011, I went through what I can now see as a depression. Yeah. I had nothing to live for so because he was off the market no because it was done like i watched daily footage of like the prep the cake like the i knew everything i took notes because i didn't want to forget anything but i i also think that um well i did there's these things called biography fairs in elementary school where you like dress up as a person and like react.

And everybody was being like Mia Hamm. And like I came in in a full ball gown and was Princess Diana. And ever since then, I just I'm obsessed with Diana. And I think that Harry is Diana's son. One hundred percent. It's so crazy because everything he watched his mom go through, he watched his wife start to go through.

And it's just, it's so crazy. But I don't think people talk about it enough. Like, everyone likes to throw in the, well, they said they didn't want attention

or they said they didn't want to be famous. Why are they, first off, they never said that. They said they were not going to be working royals. The second Harry was saying, we have to get get out is when Meghan finally shared with him that she

was suicidal, like, and was pregnant with their child. Going off of the trailer that they just dropped, which was more of like, you know, when your iPhone puts together like a memories video of like this day three years ago and it plays like corny music and it's like all those photos. That's what the trailer felt like. I didn't feel like the trailer was giving but i am very excited for it i mean we all watched the oprah interview like were you silenced or silenced so i'm excited i think it's gonna be great but from the terms of like a pr standpoint being like okay you didn't want to be in the public eye now you're doing netflix disney the vile files like they're doing everything god i would die.

Yeah. But they're going to be famous for Karthus. I know VAR less than you two do. And I watched the trailer in anticipation for us talking about it. I just thought, given it's their show, I'm sure they have a lot of creative say in everything. I would think. Not everyone in their position would, but I would assume they would.

I just didn't think, even in the trailer they came across is that likable. Her line when she's like, well, if you want to hear a story, wouldn't you want to hear it from us? So I will say... I'm nitpicking, i just know she has control

over it i just i i would have thought they would have been like they could have come up with a more likable trailer a little bit more humble or like yeah it just i don't know something and again i know i'm not taking i don't i don't have a skin in the game i don't i don't really i mean i have a preference they seem like i'm not the biggest fan of her okay i never really have been but i love harry so much and i think so if she makes him what what is it that you don't love i think that what she went through was hell with the royals like i believe everything she said i, it's literally history repeating itself. And if only Diana could have done what she did,

we would have a very different world. So I completely agree with her. But I think how she portrays herself is weird. It's not likable at all. Like, she recently did an interview. Did you see the one where she was talking about how she plays Bananagrams and reads before bed? Yes.

Even just the way she talks,'s well that's what i've been gonna point out defensive no it's the tone and i i flagged it because i was talking about her her podcast archetypes which is on spotify and i love listening to it and i actually like really like the structure and the questions she asks but it is it's the tone of which she says things and it's almost like she's narrating an audiobook as opposed to having like a human to human like it's highbrow like the authenticity is lacking which then you compare to blooper reels of suits very early interviews of her so i don't know if she went through a shift for royal protocol well i mean if she chewed gum wrong she was yeah i can

appreciate where she's coming so i'm like i want I want to get back to like because I do think she's a very genuine sweet nice person there are videos of her when people try to curtsy she's like please stop and like gives them hugs but it can be really awkward

also Northwestern alum smart cookie yeah I think I don't know I'm rooting for them I like them but I do think within the past two years

just how she's kind of we will be watching so we also need to talk about the timing of this trailer because this came when william and kate were in boston um mutual hometown and this was there was a lot of like speculation about this being kind of like a very shady time to drop the trailer right when william and kate are traveling they're having a big u.s trip also they're there for an environmental award. So it's sort of meant to be like a smile and wave. I don't think that. I mean, they could have dropped it at a way more like crazier time.

I mean, going to Boston isn't the Olympics. I mean, I wish it was. But yeah, I don't think the timing was super shady. And I also don't think that all of his resentment is towards his brother I think there's definitely a lot of issues there but we saw them come together

for the Queen's funeral and I don't know I think they have their brother issues like as anybody would be in a royal situation but I don't think it was calculated

in a sense against him I think Meghan and Harry are heading to the East Coast this week it comes out on the 8th like there are certain things that have to be timed they're traveling all the time when are they going to fit it in you know i think that's the point they can't operate around uh their schedule all the time and the one thing i would say to like play devil's advocate about their timing they like shut down all of their like for example the archetypes for the archwell audio website after the queen passed they shut it all of their, for example, the archetypes for the R2L Audio website, after the Queen passed, they shut it all down. It literally was just stuff

about the Queen. So they have opportunities to continue to shove themselves into the public eye, but I feel like they know timing, and they're not trying to be disrespectful. I went to London for the first time this summer, and I was taking one of their black cabs, which if you haven't done, it's fun. Huge.

You got a whole party back there. No, it's great. But also like these guys are like pros and they're like, yeah, they know all the streets are like cab drivers slash like tour guides, very lovely people. And we were just talking with them and I don't know much about like obviously their culture or their history having never been there. And he just talked about how like, you know, like we have some weird traditions here in the States, you know?

And they like, there are people who like truly like, they identify by like living for the queen or the royals, the king, you know? That's where they get their sense of like patriotism for. And so it makes sense why Meghan and Harry are met with so much criticism because not because it's right or justified, but it seems like a lot of people

who really believe in the royalty or the royal family, it's all about preserving that and fighting for that. And they're breaking away from that. So I can see why they, it made me understand the intensity. As someone like myself, I'm like, man, like made up. But I mean, the king kind of strayed away from royalty and the royal family by getting a divorce and having an affair with Camilla.

I would ask you so badly what you would do at the PR for Camilla. Have you seen the royals Instagram? It's all like team Diana, go team Diana. Whenever they post pictures of Camilla, Have you seen the Royals Instagram? It's all like, Team Diana! Go Team Diana! Whenever they post pictures of Camilla, I'm like, this is some Bachelor or Bachelor wretched. Hello, Queen Consort. They still haven't let it go. No, they'll never let it go.

I mean, she's literally, she will never be Queen. She's Queen Consort. But low-key, I hate, I hate him so much. Oh, God. Charles? Do you know he's never tied his own shoes? I kind of think it's I'm the biggest Diana fan and I hate

Charles, but it's low-key kind of romantic in a weird weird way that like he wanted to be with Camilla the whole time and like actually followed through with it and they're still together. So it's kind of like, okay, whatever, but yeah, I mean

So to everyone who's seeing someone who's married, he will leave her. Yeah, no. But I mean, it's messy. I got a question before texting office hours. Apologizing. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of nuance to apologizing now. Yeah.

And if you step in it. And especially because usually what happens with things like Reddit, you have internet rumors. Yeah. Right. And. Snark pages. Yeah. And then, and I think this is where people from my world step in it.

People who become kind of public figures overnight and just certainly don't have a lot of experience. They don't even have access to people with PR expertise and things like that. They just have like cousins and friends giving a lot of bad advice, you know? And so there's this thing where sometimes when people like, I think you got to be really careful when you apologize, because when you apologize, when you apologize, almost always you give it that much more visibility. And then when you, sometimes the kind of, if it's, if conversations are happening about it, like on Reddit, like who gives a shit, but like you people, if you're reading your Reddit, if you're reading your own press, it feels like the world's attacking you. And then sometimes people, and then people be like, they better apologize. They better do this.

And like, there's so many other versions of the story and and like some truths but you can't really talk about it because if you do then it gets that much more attention and that's when the us weeklies and the e-news all pick it up or the people magazine so where do you think is the right line for someone to actually apologize because there's a lot of cases where, you know, do they have to apologize? Yeah, that's the question. You know, like, and if they do, what level of visibility are you now bringing attention to this? Because some people have to decide, well, like, you know, it's like, are you apologizing for the action or are you just apologizing for being in the wrong room? Yeah, are you apologizing for their reaction?

For their reaction, right? And you can't explain context, so you just apologize. But then all of a sudden the articles, you have to deal with clickbait. So all of these press outlets are going to be thinking of the most juiciest clickbait.

So do you want your name attached to X, Y, or Z? Or maybe you just, as you said, like with TJ, he's just going to let it go away because TJ, instead of making a comment about it,

is just going to like live his life. Whatever he lives is going to be up in headlines like I didn't have an affair or blah blah blah blah blah or whatever it is. I do. I always say that I want to start a show or a series on my TikTok called Reddit and Weep and have people read their Reddits like

celebrities reading mean tweets. I did that once on a podcast a long time ago. Reddit is vile. No offense. No pun on words. When it comes to apologizing, I always say, what's your why? Kind of like with what you were describing before. Are you apologizing because you think that what you did was wrong or are you apologizing for their reactions? Or are you apologizing for your public image yeah because you're afraid you don't want people to think something of you yeah a lot of the times though exactly with what you said apologizing is bringing it to 99 of eyes who didn't even see it

on reddit and then that's going to add more controversy but sometimes people want that sometimes people want to be talked about sometimes people want to bring it to light and if that's your why do the notes app apology i mean there also should be a coffee table book of all celebrities notes app apologies. I think it'd sell really well, but brilliant. I think that right now. Yeah. Right. I think that you just need to figure out why you're doing it at the end of the day. It is so contrived and so calculated. I don't think a notes app apology. I've never seen a notes app apology where I've looked at it and been like, you know what? That's good. They were right. Like they were right. Actions speak louder than notes app apologies. Like I

said earlier, if it's something massive and you do need to speak about it, of course, come and apologize. I don't think it should be a notes app apology. I think it's better speaking about it and showing real authentic reactions because a lot of times even just reading something, something will get taken apart, be in a headline and be looked at as wrong. When it comes to reading stuff on Reddit and like bringing it to light, you will never make those people on Reddit happy. So what is the point in even trying to shift their opinion? Take that energy instead and put it on the people who do appreciate what you do and expanding your business and doing things that will please you and your audience. Like no troll is ever going to look at a no tap apology and be like, oh, I'm going back on Reddit and I'm apologizing. Change my stance. Yeah, no, no way.

Like these snark pages on Reddit are insane. Don't read them. I think that's also another piece of advice that I've given influencers because the influencer snark pages on Reddit are- They're foul. Yeah. Mine are like marketing nerds though.

I feel like I've like, you know, like criminal minds where they profile? Yeah. Like the serial killers? Yeah. I feel like I've like, you know, like criminal minds where they profile like the serial killers. I feel like I've profiled the person who is a regular on Reddit who snarks and trolls and critiques. It is a highly educated, usually intelligent person who is generally doing well in their career, but hates it and isn't particularly happy with their personal life. 100%. And look, I have spoken on my social media before. I've been a hater a thousand percent.

I have been not the nicest person at some point in my life, but it was always when I didn't like myself. And when the pandemic happened, I saw all these people blowing up on TikTok and doing the things that I wanted to like myself. And when the pandemic happened, I saw all these people blowing up on TikTok and like doing the things that I wanted to be doing. And I was like, like they don't like, I would be a hater because I wanted it.

But that was all just a reflection on myself. It's all projecting. So when people do hate or say these things on Reddit, it's like kind of like what you're saying. Yeah, they may be very, very successful. But at the end of the day, I don't think they really like what they're doing. And it's showing and it's projecting.

But I don't blame some people because, I mean, I feel like when you're not in a good headspace, you're not going to like a lot of things about your life or other people's lives. And part of it's fandom. I always say, too, like as a diehard Packer fan, I don't just love watching the Packers. I hate, I enjoy hating the Vikings. Yeah. I mean, I'm from Boston. Sure. And you enjoy hating teams.

So there's that too. And you have to remember that. But to have hate, it means they are low-key a fan because they care about what you're doing. No, not even low-key. Huge fans. Yeah. I love my fans. Thank you for listening.

Yeah. We love you all. I mean, truly. It's engagement. They keep the lights on. All right. We're new texting office hours. You down for that?

Yeah. Great. And then when we come back, you're going to give us some PR moves for me and the show. Yes. Amazing. How's it going? Doing great. My name is Sam and I'm 37 years old.

How can we help Sam? I need help figuring out if the person that I have hung out with every time I've been single for the last 16 years has like any more feet and if something could be there. Okay. What do you mean by hanging out with? Yeah, good question. So when I was 21 years old, I met this boy at a wedding and he was 19 and we kind of hit it off and he lived about two hours away from me. So there was a lot of effort in seeing each other. But we never had any conversations of what we meant to each other or any expectations.

But we continued this for a couple years. And then we've both been in some long-term relationships. And we still stayed friendly during that time and caught up in each other's lives. But yeah, every time I was single, I would hit him up again. And so we have seen each other quite a bit throughout the years. Have you gone on dates? Have you hooked up? Like, has it always just been platonic?

Like what? Yeah. So yes, we have hooked up and we don't necessarily go on dates per, because it's always when I'm back home visiting, he'll drive down the two hours. And then we'll maybe all go out to dinner together. And then him and I will hang out later, do breakfast the next morning. And then I saw him last week over Thanksgiving. So he drove down to see me. And then the following weekend, he drove up to see me and do a workout class and go to brunch and stuff like that. So not like traditional dates, but kind of.

Okay. And I'm a guess in like over 16 years, what stopped you from exploring this as a potential long-term option then? That's a good question. Well, there's always been distance, which isn't the end of the world, but he is, he's a very attractive gentleman. And I just kind of always thought I was one of many. But now that it's been 16 years and we finally started having a conversation about what we wanted from life, I'm thinking maybe there could be more. So were there times where you thought he's too hot for him to want to date me? It's sad to say that.

I think that happens a lot, though, for people. I know. You thought like he's too hot for him to want to date me? It's sad to say that, but. I think that happens a lot though for people. I know. Like even one of my best friends was like, I mean, I don't know how you pulled him either. Well, that's just rude. Like, thanks. Yeah. Really appreciate that. You're, how long have you been single now?

About a year. Okay. And what, have you been speaking recently? So we saw each other twice last week when I was back for Thanksgiving. Did you hook up? Yes. Good for you. On one of the two times that we hung out okay so on the first the first one yes and when you when you're done hooking up like what what happens where does it go what is it just more like you guys pat each other on the head and be like thanks for the hang or like

no it's more like cuddly and he's he's very affectionate and stuff too but it's just kind of goofing around talk, not anything. So he's 35 now-ish. Yep. And what's he doing in life? He has started a business. And he coaches. This business he started, where is it at?

Is it up and running? So it's like... He has that together. Yeah, it's together. Because that matters. I mean... i said when i when i when i quit my job and moved to a different city and i moved to la and was like shacking up with my buddy in a guest bedroom like i was dating but i reflect back and i was just like i was never going to be in a serious relationship at the time because i just felt so unsettled and i just i didn't feel like i was just like, I was never going to be in a serious relationship at the time because I just felt so unsettled. And I just, I didn't feel like I was in a position.

I was like staying at my buddy's place. It felt like I didn't have a, I felt homeless in a sense. And I think everyone feels that way. But I think even for guys, there's an added pressure. Maybe we just put on ourselves or society. I don't know. But I think there's a sense of, and that's also just a convenient excuse to be like, well, I like i gotta work on the biz you know and it's and it might be like a valid excuse where it is taking up a lot of their

emotional time and energy so that's why i asked if if if how how established was this business he's started i have a question real quick the amount of time that you guys have been in this like side hill residency, a child could have been born and now has their license. 16 years is a very long time. Do you think it's comfort or chemistry? It could be both. What is it more of? Because I feel like chemistry. Okay. Yeah. I don't know him that. I don't know him crazy well. Yeah. Just like circle level catch ups and stuff. Yeah.

Well, piggybacking off yours, after 16 years, how compatible do you think you guys are? Because there's chemistry, which is fun and exciting. And you can like rub up that chemistry. And just seeing someone every two years creates chemistry. Yeah. But how compatible do you think you are with this guy? And I think to Robin's point, like, is this just convenient? Or are you at the stage of your life where you're maybe considering things you wouldn't otherwise consider because maybe you're feeling a little unsettled?

But, I mean, you are hooking up with this guy. He seems probably still good looking. And now he's got his business like i'm sure there's a lot of things to like but like what what about a relationship with him excites you well that's um that's the part i'm wanting to figure out like i would like to spend more time and figure out if we are actually compatible okay so you don't even know yeah i know you've just been having some sex. I just know I have fun with him.

I'm always like super smitten after we hang out. Sex is good? Yes. Okay. Does he make you feel desired? Because I know you mentioned sort of having this perception of him being like this like very hot guy. And I'm curious, like if there's anything about his behavior that would indicate that

he would share that perception. Yeah. Like he's very, like when we're out, he's very like handsy and we'll, you know, like when we went to that workout class, he like kept touching my bum, like as we're,

we're doing it. And then when we went to brunch, he was standing behind me watching the world cup and was very, you know, sure. Affectionate. Yes. Affectionate.

And, uh, made me feel nice. So maybe that's one of my love languages that I didn't know about. Is he affectionate after you guys hook up? Yes. A man doesn't love. No, I'm just like, I'm so glad that he is like making, you know, that he like is being kind and making you feel like attended to.

What has his dating life been? Yeah, I was just going to ask that. Is he in his fuckboy era still? I don't, I think he may have just gotten out of it. He's had three longer term relationships since I've known him. And again, we still talk when those are happening, but it's not flirty. It's just, you know, have you been like we've grabbed lunch once or twice. But when we spoke this time, he said, you know, I until this year, I always would have said I was a no on kids.

And this is the first year I'm thinking like, maybe. You or he said this? This is him. Okay. And that he had talked about like the therapy that he'd been doing and stuff like that. And then his last friend in California is about to move away. So I think it's making him, you know, kind of question where he is in his life. And if he does want something more serious. That's kind of what spurred these thoughts.

Real quick. Why do you think it's never gone further than it's gone? Like in 16 years, never once after like a hookup or like anything where you're like, hey, like I had so much fun. Like what, why do you think nothing has gone further than where it is right now?

I am not sure. I mean, besides the fact of me just being chicken and not asking. Yeah. he hasn't asked either that's what yeah true yeah i mean listen i'm always what it is i always think i think you should absolutely shoot your shot yeah for sure you have nothing to lose except you know a bruised ego and some pride i do think you should brace yourself for not getting the answer that you want there's you know it's been 16 years he's never really made a move or thought about it.

And even if he's considered it, there's clearly this barrier. You guys have settled in to whatever this is and to create something new. There's a lot of built-in excuses. It's long distance. So I don't want to ruin what this is kind of thing, which would be bullshit.

But like, it's just a very built-in excuse. So I think just have that on top of your mind, but you have nothing to lose. Yeah. Why don't you just text him right now and ask him if he wants to do a FaceTime date tonight or a Zoom date this week? It'd be kind of random, I know,

but you are long distance right now, but I think you want to establish, I want to get to know you. Yeah. When was the last time you hooked up? Last week? Yeah, I want to get to know you. Yeah. When was the last time you hooked up? Last week. Yeah. Two weeks ago.

Two weeks ago. What communication have you had with him since? He texts that Monday when I got back, he said that it was like really good seeing me and getting to spend time with me. And then he's on a trip right now. So I said like, like I enjoyed it too. If you make it back from this trip let's like in one piece then let's do it again and he wrote i'd love to and then like the kissy emojis okay so he's not a big emoji

person yes yeah we have to i probably wouldn't ask if he wants to face him tonight but i could yeah i know you don't want a few days where where's where he's on a trip uh miami oh he's at art basil yes okay the last text so he may not make it back in one piece i'm not sure he also just definitely might be in his fuck boy era i mean he's a 35 year old going to art basil like he's a fuck boy it's fine i mean that makes it a lot easier every fuck boy is someone else's future wife i'm just saying just know he's at art basil all right let's do a little uh dramatic reading if you will robin if you will indulge me um who am i you're her i'll be him okay you're in blue so you're on the right it's not it's not black and white uh happy to finally

got to see you and spend some time together oh me too well we should do it again. If you make it back from Miami in one piece, tongue out emoji. I'd love to. Three exclamation points. Three exclamation points. Two kissy face emojis. Same. Have so much fun on your trip, and I'll be super disappointed if I don't get any you up texts. I'll do my best.

Has he sent you any you up texts? He has not. Okay. I'm disappointed. Let's put it at our bezel. Yeah. So that was on Monday at 4.08 p.m. Now we're Tuesday, 8.11 p.m.

I love the stage direction. Have you been listening to that new Nelly song on repeat? What new Nelly song? That's me, actually. It's not a new one. I am just from Missouri and super obsessed with Nelly. And so I was saying he was making a comeback. Breaking character.

He writes, ha ha ha ha ha. Oh my God, nothing else but Nelly singing country in this car. Are you talking about the song Over and Over Again? No, the Little Bits song. I was going to say that came out in like 2008. You and your car are going to be very popular. Ooh. Very ha ha shit.

He got his ha ha. He misspelled ha ha ha. He misspelled ha-ha-ha. He was driving. He was being casual. I'd jump in if I heard Nelly. Girl. Ha-ha. I bet you would, you nerd.

Laugh your face emoji. Oh, my God. Nelly is not nerdy, says a 37-year-old already in bed at 9.30 p.m. Ha-ha-ha. That's the best. He needs a new ha-ha. He needs something other than ha-ha-ha. I know.

He said that's the best. He needs a new ha. He needs something other than ha ha ha. I know. He said that's my bedtime. If you weren't a couple time zones away, I'd tell you to come jump in mine with me. I'm wearing those Hampton pajamas you like. That was a joke because he said that my lady, because they're very late for a lady. It's okay. Okay, fine.

No, but important context. I hear what she's saying. This is not me being sexy lingerie. This is like an inside joke. Self-deprecrecating and okay ha ha ha ha ha again i mean that's he's cackling he's he is laughing up the storm oh yes baby talk dirty to me love those pjs ha ha i mean this is nice well lucky for you i have a whole drawer of them i will say ha ha's can definitely be um a self-defense mechanism doesn't know what to say or like you don't want to be too flirty if it's not being flirty so like the hahas are like i want to say this but haha in case you take it the wrong way type thing yeah if this doesn't

work out honestly i feel like nelly's probably on raya um and it might be single i think the conversation is good though it's a good conversation. It's pretty banter. Listen, when he gets back from Art Basel, I think you should just like shoot a shot and just be like,

hey, what are you doing tonight? And he's like, what do you mean? And because like you're living in the park. A little bit like, ha ha, what do you mean?

Yeah, ha ha, you're like, ha ha, ha ha, ha ha, what do you mean? And then say like,

do you want to like FaceTime date tonight? You have each other's number but call it a date and then wear the hampton pajamas yeah yes and and then and you'll probably be like well we need a date i'm like you know we spent all this time like getting together when we're in the same town and hooking up but like honestly like i want to get to know you more and then maybe on that facetime date i don't think you spent a lot of time not coming clean and just say very casually,

it's just like, call me crazy, but like, I'd love to like get to know you more and explore if there's anything here. He might shoot it down right away, but I do think you should put yourself out there pretty quickly. Don't, don't try to like breadcrumb them and like try,

don't try to date him without him knowing that you're dating him which a lot of people do yeah so just say I want to try to date you I want to

get to know you just put yourself out there and you can phrase it like I don't like to do things by half like you know I think in that way it's kind of like because everybody likes

to think of themselves as someone who like goes for it and follows through and I think it's a way of detaching from like maybe some of the more like do you want to date me and more of who like goes for it and follows through. And I think it's a way of detaching from like, maybe some of the more like, do you want to date me?

And more of a like definitive, like, this is what I want. We're basically already doing it. Like, let's just full send. Yeah. And just say,

well, maybe how about we take a quick trick together or something, or maybe meet up or just, I think. That was the other thing I was going to mention is I have a, a top performance trip coming for up for work. And March, thank you. I have a, uh, top performance trip coming for up for work in March. Thank you.

And, um, I, he could be my plus one. So I can use that as like an opportunity to. Sure. But now you have to figure out, do you want to bring your,

like, do you want to do it there? Like, cause doing this now might, it's, I would be willing to bet he would easily come as a plus one to a work trip and have some fun sex and just. Yeah, is he there as a boy toy or as a boyfriend is kind of the question. Well, that's the thing. You have to ask yourself, what's the priority?

Having a date to the work trip or potentially seeing him as a dating partner? Because you trying to force the issue now might fuck up this March. March is like several months away, four months away. So this could ruffle that. And you have nothing to lose. You've been in bed with this man for 16 years straight. Don't be embarrassed. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of the times it can be more embarrassing to say your feelings than to be intimate with somebody. But if you think about it, you've already been intimate. You've known this guy for 16 years he likes you for who you are as a person just be honest like you really you don't have anything to lose and it might be scary but like

imagine the payoff and if not okay great like at least now you know and you can move forward yeah set yourself free yeah the hard part for you is going to be because it always in these situations as you know when you shoot your shot you have to be prepared to walk away for you you is going to be, because always in these situations, when you shoot your shot, you have to be prepared to walk away. For you, it's going to be hard just because it's gone on for so long and you're so used to so much gaps in between. So it'd be easy for you to reset and convince yourself that it's okay for you guys to go back to what you did. But in almost all these cases, he's at art basil so like this he's a he just he has he has he has fuck boy in his blood if if if for no other you know i don't know where he's at and so he's going to need someone who shows him that i won't take less

than what i want, whenever that is. So you are going to have to stop sleeping with him and you're probably going to have to show him that you're willing to stop sleeping with him for him to consider wanting more from this relationship. So I do think you, I think you should shoot your shot for sure. But because this has played out for over 16 years,

I could see this courtship of you trying to see if there's a relationship there potentially lasting long. So I think you have to make sure that you really put yourself out there and see if he's willing to do the same because it would be easy for him to be like, well, I mean, hey, let's just see. You know what? Let's go on this trip in March and see. And meanwhile, like, let's not change much. I think you should force the issue, be vulnerable and see if there's something there because this could turn into a situationship really fast. And it's not like really a situationship now.

It's kind of like this kind of casual. You're not really emotionally invested. It doesn't sound like when you're not hanging out, you're not really emotionally invested. It doesn't sound like when you're not hanging out, you're all like wondering what he's doing. But if you crack that seal and you start being vulnerable with him and he starts being a little bit vulnerable with you, you're running the risk of developing these feelings and getting into this situation where he's like, well, I'm not really sure. I'm just like, you know, I live in California type of thing. So be careful so over facetime it

should be done not not a text message yeah i think over facetime you should tell them what you've been thinking i don't think you should do that over text messaging okay i think over text messages you hit them up and be like what do you uh what are you doing tonight and then kind of call it a date and then plant that seed in his head and see what he says. Okay. I like it. Let us know how it goes.

For sure. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. All right, take care. Bye. Bye. All right, Robin, what do you got for us? Okay.

Let me pull up my handy dandy notes app. Do you have an apology? No. I wish. So these are PR moves I have for the vile files and for you guys in general. I think that you should come up with some sort of dating segment or show on this podcast called Vile Dial, where it starts off as you set up, you find a guest and you set them up with texting with three women. This goes on for one day. You guys do exactly this. Look over the text messages.

And then he decides to have three phone calls with the girls. You guys come up with questions and topics that you guys think they should talk about. Same with the audience. So the audience is involved as well. And then at the end of the three phone calls, you guys decide who he should go on a date with without being able to see them just through text message and with the phone calls. They go on the date, they come back, and then they let the audience or you guys know how the date went, why you think it went in that direction, and kind of going through there. Because I think it's like in the world of love is blind, the kind of like blind setup date

just off of personality, dating would be great, especially with your advice. And I think that would be- This is very good. We've been working with, not exactly that, but- We've discussed.

Yeah. Yeah. But that's really good. Thank you. And then I think you guys should have an out-of-office tour, obviously, like bio files, like office, like out-of-office tour where you guys go around set up audience interactions with people of the opposite sex, getting to know each other, do your podcast, but then have half of it be kind of like a speed dating singles night type of vibe so that people who are in relationships can come and watch at first. And then after it, you guys have like activations almost for singles to go through that have to do with things that you guys discuss on the show. Another segment or idea that I came up with should be called and cut. And that's when you have eliminated bachelor and or dating show contestants come on with you and a therapist and you go through their time on the show, their dating history, and you kind of break down what the

show can't show, which is why they are the way that they are in relationships, what they need going forward, and kind of give them the redemption arc after they're publicly brought down by these shows

and by their dating experiences on TV. Yeah, so those are three segments that I came up with. Those are great. Thank you. Thank you. Vile dials. I like that. V I came up with. Those are great. Thank you. File dials.

I like that. File dials. That's really great. Robin, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you. Come back anytime. Okay, perfect. Open invite.

Yeah, you were absolutely great. Please let my audience know where they can find more of your amazing content, whether it's on TikTok, Instagram, or any other place that you are putting out your great stuff. Yeah, so on TikTok and Instagram, it's at GirlBossTown. And that's where I post everything. And if you're single and ready to mingle in Boston, you can find me in my DMs. All right.

Pick her up. Well, be sure to do that. Don't forget to check out Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday. It's still for sale. It will be for a while. I can't thank, again, all the people who have read it and all the great things people have said about it if you haven't checked it out yet

if you're going through it if you are out there dating stuck in a situation ship not sure if you should leave a relationship all that and more be sure to check it out go to vilefiles.com for all the links of whether it's an audio book or the book itself

check it out uh serena kerrigan is with us on going deeper on thursday or tomorrow uh be sure to check out she's great uh we'll get into a lot of she's loves talking about relationships just like we do we'll get into more pop culture topics what do we got amanda um so yeah we're going to talk about kiki palmer's pregnancy announcement um we're going to talk about the 10-year anniversary of Harry Styles and Taylor Swift's iconic centrum party. Oh, yeah, yeah. Is he dating Kendall Jenner? We're going to talk about some of those rumors.

And also the Stranger Things house is for sale slash potentially being purchased. So I talk a little bit about some TV sets. All right. Cool. Great. Well, be sure to tune in. Go follow Girl Boss Town all over the internet. You won't be sorry.

Thank you. Don't forget to send those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. See you tomorrow. Thanks. com cast for the K see you tomorrow