The Viall Files - E512 Going Deeper with Serena Kerrigan - I Need A “Turning Point” Man

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by Content Creator, Media Personality, and Entrepreneur, Serena Kerrigan! In this episode, we are diving deep and talking about how being on The Viall Files was on Serena’s bucket list, bringing a Regina George mentality to self-love, embracing that life is short, and getting called vicious on dates. We also talk about the biggest struggles in the modern dating landscape, the importance of communication, and meeting a “turning point” man. We then play Serena’s card game, “Let’s F*cking Date”, and get into some deep questions. We also get into some pop culture topics, talking about Keke Palmer’s pregnancy announcement and the Britney Spears musical. We then let on our Texting Office Hours caller who wonders if she should pursue an old situationship after running into him last week. With her trying to see if he’s interested, and him using a sunburn as an excuse to flake, she wonders if it’s even worth it. After our caller we see what’s new with Serena with her brand and upcoming show.  “I think everything comes down to communication.” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET on Amazon's Amp app. Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Chime: See for yourself why Chime is so loved at http://www.Chime.com/viall. Caraway: Visit http://www.Carawayhome.com to take advantage of their Cyber Season Event and score up to 20% off your next purchase of non-toxic kitchenware. This deal won’t last long, so visit http://www.Carawayhome.com to shop all their incredible products for up to 20% off this holiday season. Milk Bar: Right now, Milk Bar has a special, limited time offer. Get $15 off any order of $80 or more when you go to http://www.MilkBarStore.com/VIALL. OSEA: For a gift that will impress, check out OSEA’s Bestseller Minis Collection. Right now our listeners get 10% off your first order with promo code VIALL at http://www.OSEAMalibu.com. You’ll even get free samples with every order, and orders over $50 get free shipping.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @serenakerrigan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda. Ladies, how are you doing today? Good. Oh, I feel like a little sluggish today. Well, we have Serena Kerrigan with us today. We've been meaning to have Serena on for a long time. If you don't know about Serena, she's, I mean, how would you describe her? She is a- Content creator. Content creator. She has been

sharing her thoughts and opinions in the dating space as well for a long time yeah she's i don't know she's just a woman with some really hot takes and good opinions and uh a natural podcast confidence coach confidence coach yeah i mean if you know serena kerrigan you know serena kerrigan if you don't like well you're welcome you're about to um But yeah, so we get into that. If you haven't checked out our most recent freestyle episode with Justin Glaze and Girl Boss Town that came out yesterday,

be sure to check that out. We put a bow on the whole Greg and Victoria Johnny of it all situation as well as we got into a lot. It was a robust episode. It was a robust episode. It was a robust episode. Real meaty. Really liked it.

Juicy burger. Obviously our ethnic episodes. Go check that out. Always delivering the relationship tea. So yeah. Anything else going on that we didn't cover with Serena? Boy is there. I think we should get the, of course as a Harry Styles fan stand show, we're not going to leave any Harry Styles story undiscussed.

There's, again, Harry Styles, Kendra Jenner dating rumors. They've said they're friends. I just want to know, are him and Olivia done? Because they took a break. And I, you know, when a celebrity couple says, I mean, also like the celebrity couple, I guess, in a sense, I mean, I don't know. It depends how you look at it. But nevertheless, they were in a relationship for a long time. Then they said they were taking a break.

Are they going to give us the we're broken up? Update? Or are they just going to? Or are they just like not together? Because we have learned recently that there should be some definitive messaging around said break. Yes. Correct. Because if Harry is moving on with Kendall, I don't need him to be accused of being an emotional cheater.

Have you ever met someone who's kind of championed the idea of taking a break from a relationship? Like anybody who's been like, it was really helpful and it, our relationship needed it. And here we are. Oh, they got back together. Yeah. Or like someone who would say like,

who would advocate for taking breaks because so frequently I just view it as like a soft launch of a breakup. Yeah. I mean, what? Yeah. Someone would, some asshole who's the exception to the rule who thinks,

you know what I'm saying? Like it certainly has worked out for people. Someone's taking a break, some time apart, they got back together and now they're blissfully happy. But I don't know if it was, I'd be willing to guess it wasn't the break that did it for them.

It might've been what they did on that break that they could have done without taking that break, but some sort of communication or understanding or vulnerability or humility and all those things that play a role in how we communicate was probably it and not the break itself. But I'm sure there are people out there advocating for a break, but they're wrong. They're wrong. Yeah. You can advocate for a breakup. I know a couple that broke up and then got back together and stronger than ever, but their biggest thing was saying, we didn't say

it was a break. We said it was a breakup. Yeah. Semantics though. But yeah, I think if someone wants a break, so whoever's asking for the break 99 times out of 100 is because they're afraid to break up with you. They don't know how to do it.

Maybe they even are literally afraid because they don't know what it's going to be like to be single so they want to test the waters. It's a soft launch. Yeah. Of the single life. I don't know what it's going to be like to be single so they want to test the waters it's a it's a soft launch yeah of the single life someone's back burner yeah yeah um it was the 10-year anniversary of harry styles and taylor swift like big central park date that everybody was freaking out over at the time and it's it's like wow who else has he dated like do you guys see them as a couple? Him and Taylor?

Yeah. Hello. It's the reason we have 1989. That's, yeah, I guess I wasn't that well versed of either of them back then. That's why you brought me on board, Nicholas. For me, I can't say that. I was more like, oh, they dated? I didn't know that.

Yeah, I feel like I was also surprised by that. But I feel like, I don't know that. Yeah, I feel like I was also surprised by that. But I feel like, I don't know. Pre-Coachella, I mean, I have to admit that I just wasn't the fan that I am today. Yeah, it's like BC is actually before Coachella. Yeah, not before Christ for me. Yeah, it's definitely before Coachella when it comes to Harry Styles. Exciting news. Britney Spears is going to have a musical featuring her music it's going to be

as ali was saying a mama mia style situation where it's like it's a jukebox she's not headlining yeah per se but it'll be her greatest hits i assume her songs yes and they'll be writing a story around it around it around what do you think the story is going to be i'd love it to be modern dating well that's what the thing is because i want toxic to be in there yeah and then she breaks up with the toxic man so what are the songs that we have what are the potential songs that we have she plays circus as she dances in the club where do you think i'm a slave for you fits in oh oh i feel like that's the song he sings to seduce try to seduce her oh he sings it oh that's like he i'm assuming this is a straight person i don't

know i want it to be like um joseph and the amazing technical or dreamcoat do you ever watch that like on vhs pharaoh's wife i haven't seen that i'm familiar with pull a pharaoh's wife okay piece of me i feel like it would be a huge miss to not include that's a bop i I'm Britney bitch. No, that's Gimme More, I think. It's Britney bitch. Yeah, that's her in the relationship. I think I've told this story, but I used to love Gimme More. I'm in my 20s at this point, mid-20s, adulthood, and I have my roommate, and I was listening to Gimme More on repeat over and over and over. One guest asked you what your walk-on music would be

when we were talking about baseball. And I think maybe that's your answer is give me more. I don't have the same love for it that I did back then. But he was like, really? Again? I'd be in the shower and like, give me more. I was just playing.

That's so endearing. On repeat. That could be fun, this Broadway show. Should we go? Sure. Yeah. Well, it's going could be fun. This Broadway show. Should we go? Sure. Yeah. Are they? Well, it's going to be on Broadway for a while.

We'll take a trip. Yeah. He doesn't want to travel with us. We keep asking him every day. I keep asking him every day. You need to know how people are at the airport. If we know, if we're going to know each other. Oh, here's the thing, guys.

I'm not, I'm not going in your lines with you. I am going through clear. I will see you on the other side. I'm TSA pre-check. You got to have both. What? What? Tell me.

So clear, the combination is the best, specifically at LAX. You walk into clear, and then you have clear and pre-check, so you still don't have to take anything out. You go up. They give you your eyes. Great. It's you. They look at your boarding pass.

They walk you. They escort you to the front of the line. You show your boarding pass again, and then you're the first one in. You get to walk around all the pre-check people. How much does clear cost? I don't know. I feel like, see, that to me sounds very expensive because TSA pre-check is so cheap. But people in LA for five years. Yeah, that seems very affordable. But in LA, people hate waiting in a line. Like, you know that people would pay for that service to skip a line. And so I feel like it must be expensive enough that people would think twice.

I don't think it's a price thing because I've, I mean, I never even looked at the price. It's $189. It's $189. And it gets me what? And that's not the same as global entry? No, global entry is just when you're doing international stuff, I think. Gotcha. I don't know how frequently you fly international.

I've waited far too long to get TSA PreCheck, and it's been a nice perk. Yeah. I don't know if I need to do better. I'm just letting you know, when we go to New York, I will be going in my own line. I'm not the type of person to stand there and wait with you. That's fine. Britney Spears on Broadway. I love that for her.

Are there any other artists who you would love for there to be a jukebox musical? Taylor Swift. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize.

This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Allen's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and Vox adding that it should be

your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it.

Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh.

Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already.

We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. There's just so much there, though. That's like, oh, my God. How does she not have one?

That needs to be like a set. Every album would need to be its own movie. Very true. Anyway, Britney Spears, looking forward to it. Well, we have a great episode for you. Serena Kerrigan is coming up shortly. Don't forget to send those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K.

Send those questions for all things Ask Nick and texting office hours. Anything else? If you know you need to break up with someone and you want some help doing that, let us know. We'd love to do that. Don't text your ex happy birthday. It's still available. Obviously, it will be for a while. Serena likes it.

So check it out, vilefiles.com. And join a book club. Join a book club. Yes, please join a book club. And if you've joined a book club, be like a good participant. Your managers are really trying. I put them all in a group chat. It's a similar theme. How's it

going? They're trying to get some more responses. It sounds like modern day dating. Yeah. Where it's like people express interest. You gotta come out of your shell. You gotta because they're trying to get things done. They're trying to get things done. They're trying to get involvement and interaction. And they want to get on a Zoom with Nick.

They can't do that if it's just them. I mean, they could. Is it that bad? Speak up. Certain cities have more robust engagement than others. Which ones are robust? I feel like I've seen engagement with San Diego. San Diego one has been doing well.

Shout out San Diego. Good job, San Diego. Some good LA has been doing well. Shout out San Diego. Good job, San Diego. Some good LA. Maybe it's the Californians that are popping off. Interesting. All right. Oh, Toronto?

I don't know. Maybe they're picking up steam. But just a reminder, if you're in a Facebook group, they're trying to get to know you. They're trying to create a community. Help them help you. Okay.

All right, let's get to Serena. Money can't buy you happiness, but not worrying about your money comes close. That's where Chime can help you smile more. They were just named the number one most loved banking app. With payday up to two days early and fee-free overdrafts up to $200, they offer a financial peace of mind in your wallet. All of this with no annual fees, large security deposits, or credit checks to apply. See for yourself why Chime is so loved at Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is Chime.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.

Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank and a member's FDIC. by the Bancorp Bank or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Early access to direct deposit funds depends on payer. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. See Chime.com slash SpotMe. Chime was the 2021 number one most downloaded banking app in the U.S. according to Apptopia. Carraway pots and pans, cooking sheets, and more. Caraway is amazing.

It's a dream. It's a dream. They look so good. I leave my Dutch oven on my stovetop all the time because it's a gorgeous color. I also, I love a nonstick pan. It makes the cleanup process so much easier, but there's some weird chemicals in a lot of nonstick pans on the market.

Not Caraway. Not Caraway. Safe, normal, good ingredients. there's some weird chemicals in a lot of non-stick pans on the market not caraway safe, normal, good ingredients and they just make good food in them they look good on your stovetop they really do I have a green integrate set it's fantastic, super high quality

I love cooking and I also think if you're someone who's in their 20s, 30s, wherever you are in life, I think it feels really good to start to make purchases that feel adult and where you're like, this is an object that I will use in everyday life. And I deserve to have like a high quality thing for this. Your pots and pans ideally should match.

It's a nice, yeah, it's a nice home investment for yourself. It elevates you. It looks good. It impresses people. You should totally do that. And it's a nice home investment for yourself. It elevates you. It looks good. It impresses people. You should totally do that. And it's just amazing cookware. And as you mentioned, it's free of all the PFAs and PTFEs and PFOAs that is in so many other of the cooking things that are out on the market today.

Over 30,000 people have raved about their Caraway kitchenware. And now it's time to try it for yourself. people have raved about their Caraway kitchenware. And now it's time to try it for yourself. Visit CarawayHome.com to take advantage of their cyber season event and score up to 20% off your next purchase of non-toxic kitchenware. This deal won't last long. So visit CarawayHome.com to shop all their incredible products for up to 20% off this holiday season. Serena, welcome. Thank you so much for having me i'm such a big fan this was on my bucket list so this and the met gala so yeah thank you for having me well now we just have to get you to the met gala yeah that's it i too would like to go to the met gala i feel

like that's in your cards you can just manifest it i don't know okay maybe not who would you go with i'd have my girlfriend i think think. No, not as your date. As like with a designer. Oh. Yeah, he's not going to that gala. Yeah. Never mind. Don't you, doesn't, do you get to pick?

I feel like you're set up with a designer. Like they ask you. You're usually like tapped, I feel like. Yeah. Hmm. Not Balenciaga. Not Balenciaga. Mine would be like Zara. Zara.

I like the Koopals. The Koopals is a store I've been shopping at. The Kooples Paris. It's like a step above. What would you say the Kooples is? It's like a step above. It's right up there with like All Saints. Yeah.

But like the Paris version. All Saints more of a British brand. I like the Kooples. I'd go with the Kooples. I don't know if they go to the Met Gala. I don't know if they do. Is it a limited to Zarago? No.

Definitely not. This is like Dior, Tom Ford, Donatello with Versace. Tom Ford. I'd want to go with Tom Ford. I'd want to wear one of his tuxedos. That's a fucking low bid. Yeah. I don't, I've never worn a Tom Ford tuxedo.

Okay. I'd like to. Great. Yeah. Let your girlfriend know. I feel like i have a better chance of going to the this has been discussed i have a better chance of going to the mecca is nally's date than i think i have then nally has a better chance of going as my date i think

just because i don't know if they're like super keen on bachelor alums and i feel like she has a chance to do her own thing someday that would like i feel like you've pivoted really well you think so yeah thank you you have a book thank you which i've read and i really like the format i like that you like put in the q and a's i really like your advice thank you as i told you this was my fucking bucket list item you why was it your bucket list? Because I feel, I just really agree with everything you say. And you're very straightforward as am I. I think I'm like the coach K of dating.

I don't know what that makes you, but. The coach K of dating. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. He's good. I guess the difference is that you're in a relationship and I'm not. So, you know, but coaches don't play.

How do you feel about that? Yeah. Coaches don't play. Yeah. Coaches don't play. Yeah. I was not in a relationship for a very long time while I was giving relationship advice. And now I'm in a relationship, which often people love to find reasons to disqualify me for giving relationship advice. Interesting. I find the opposite problem that people are like, well, you're single. So like, who are you to give me advice? Sure. But once you find a relationship, so like who are you to give sure but once you find a relationship when whatever that relationship looks like they will find reasons to just yeah for sure um what got you into wanting to give

relationship advice just honestly having so much fucking experience and just being i really think that i don't even like try to give relationship advice. I try to give advice about becoming confident in oneself. And I think that ultimately like everything goes back to who you are and how you feel about yourself. And so that's what I try to do. And I was like a confidence coach during the pandemic because I like quit my job right before lockdown. And I was like zooming with women. As I've been doing this podcast, your name definitely has come up a few times by mutual friends, fans. So then why don't you follow me on Instagram? Is there a barometer?

Do I have to hit a certain… To be fair, he didn't follow us for like a year and a half. And like when you were working on the show? I also don't save people's numbers in my phone. He is stingy with the contacts and the followers. I was like, how funny do I have to be to follow back? I'm going to follow you right now. That's ceremonial.

We're DMing too. That's wild. You're telling me it's in the request? It really is nothing to do with that. It's how my crooked brain works. It's all good. I'm not offended. I felt like it was kind of desperate to bring it up, but you know what?

It's all good. It's done. It's done. And now you're going to follow. It's all good. And guess what I got when I. And now you're going to follow. It's all good. And guess what I got when I won. You can't get what you don't ask for. Natalie and I were dating for like nine months before I saved her number.

What was she in your... She's just your... We were... I know. We were at dinner at Paul Luger's in... Peter Luger. Peter Luger's. Steakhouse.

Did I hear they lost their Michelin star? You can lose Michelin stars? Probably because you weren't following Natalie on Instagram. Steakhouse. Did I hear they lost their Michelin star? You can lose Michelin stars? Probably because you weren't following Natalie on Instagram. Yeah, probably. Where are you? Hold on. How does your Michelin star get revoked?

What do you have to do? I really want to know. Following. Well, you cease to become like a destination, really, I guess. You go from like creating great food to serving chicken tenders. That's the whole point of the mission stars like one star i think like one star is if you're in this city you should make an attempt to go like you have to go if you're in the city two stars i forget what it is and three stars is like it's worth taking the trip just to go to that place correct right what's

the do you know what the two stars is no i just eat everything gotcha yeah and i we were at the dinner she's like you don't have me saved in your phone i was like yeah sorry fuck and i it's i don't it's i don't actively not think of doing it i just don't do it well i'm glad that we got that but now we're following each other huge win for today yeah i'm curious like what is the point that people typically you guys save someone's number in your phone like i'm after how many days? Clearly I'm not. Yeah, you're. I really want to know, I think there's a, do I think there's, I have so many people's

names saved in my phone that I haven't spoken to in years. I don't even know where they are. I don't even know if they're alive. And there's this, that mentality of like, until I know you're here to stay, it makes no sense. Because I can't tell you, there are way more often times where I'm like, I need to text so-and-so, and I have to like reflect back

on the conversation we had via text. You're putting keywords in there. No, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare for me. But it's my nightmare, and I don't know why I do it. It's my nightmare. No, I'm right there with you.

It's really a huge task to press save. So back to you. Please. But anyways, I brought that up because you mentioned Confidence Coach. You have, from what I could gather, a very loyal and diehard following and fan base. And I'm just curious,

where do you think that comes from? What it is about your style from relationship advice that you're sharing or from a confidence standpoint? Because that's the energy I saw from afar is like you are very self-confident in who you are. You know who you are and how as a confidence coach, I'm curious, how have you tried to share that?

Because I feel like that's probably one of the hardest things to get people to learn is to be confident. I sometimes wonder if it's either you got it or you don't, or you can learn certain behaviors, but it's generally hard to teach. Well, thank you for saying that. I think that I'm kind of like, I see myself as like the Regina George, but like the nice version, like bullying you into loving yourself is kind of my vibe. And I think that like people like being told what to do, like in the bedroom and outside of it. And I feel like people want direction. And I think that that's why you're also so successful with this because you're just, it's straight to the point. Yeah. There's definitely when people

call on, there's a bit of a, like, isn't it going to yell at me? Yeah. And they like that. Yeah. They want to be yelled at. Yeah. They want to be held accountable. A thousand percent. They feel like I slap them in the face sometimes, but it's always just- With the truth, metaphorically. Of course. Obviously. Well, just kidding. No violence in this household.

But I think that it's just, I think life is way too short. And I think that if people were really honest with themselves, then they could move on from things that don't serve them quicker. I think that confidence is something that we're all born with. I think that as we grow up and we see ourselves or we see a lack of something whether it's media that we are watching or a comment made by someone that's when we begin to question our self-worth and I think the way to go back to that is literally to just become your own best friend and to like I mean think about every

single person in your life that you respect and love like you're constantly admiring them I mean I already told you I liked your book I want you to follow me like I'm literally giving you so much love now what if I did that to myself like literally physically got in front of a mirror and like spoke to myself and I was like you're a bad fucking bitch do you do that all the time so much so that when I was 18 I changed my to fucking to remember so whenever I'd forget I be like, you're Serena fucking Kerrigan. And I think that people like that because it gives them permission to be confident. Because usually when people are confident, they're labeled as cocky or like arrogant. And especially women, like they're afraid to be like, I look hot. Because saying that and being like, I'm a baddie

or like I'm successful doesn't necessarily mean that no one else is or that you're, you know, being conceited. But I think it's just feeling empowered. So I think that that's what the lure of the persona and the brand is, is just kind of this really extra main character energy. What do you think the difference between cocky and confidence is? I think that being cocky or arrogant is when you need to bring people down to lift yourself up. I think that when you feel really good about yourself, you are lifting yourself up and everyone along you, right? Like, I'm really smart. And so is every single person in this room versus being like, that was like, not really a good comment. But mine was amazing, right? That's the difference.

You don't, you're lifting. Yeah. And i suppose maybe too where you're uh from a cockiness where you don't when the light is shining on someone else you're trying to steal that light so to speak totally because you're insecure yeah because everyone can exist and like be great at the same time you know in the same plane how do you uh when you're dating what do you think are your biggest uh challenges for yourself in the dating space that you're dating, what do you think are your biggest challenges for yourself in the dating space that you're trying to work on? What are my struggles with dating? Yeah, what are the things that you're currently? Because I think we all can get in our own way while we're dating and we have certain bad habits and things that you're just like, I need to, I just, I'll always have to work on this, but I'm going to keep working on it. I think that's a great question. I think that I

created this persona on the internet and, and even before I did it when I was 18 to really remind myself to be confident. And I really tapped into this persona whenever I was feeling down on myself. And so she was like this character that I could embody, kind of like a Lady Gaga, Sasha Fierce. We all have it maybe, or we should, because it really did help me. But I think that whenever I feel insecure, anxious about something, I turn her on. And I think it can come off a little abrasive or or aggressive i think it's learning how to be okay with being vulnerable and and not turning on that sfk persona that's what i'm working on because it comes off intimidating and vicious as someone said to me recently on a date vicious they called me vicious can you give more context but then like they were down to keep no that was that like that

was the just word to describe you're vicious yeah, but it was kind of hot and turned me on. We have another date. But I'm learning to be okay being softer and leaning into my feminine energy. And I think that when you're running a business or you have a career as a woman, you're constantly leaning in. You're constantly trying to get a seat at the table, metaphorically speaking. And then I'm learning on dates, I do want someone that has masculine energy. I do want to kind of like lean back and have them lead. Like I genuinely want that. But this FFK persona is so bad bitch masculine calling the shots that like I have to kind of turn her down. Sure. Yeah. And do you feel, yeah. And so you believe that that can coincide in a relationship where you have a little bit of both energy?

I'm, we'll figure it out i think so yeah i because i i find myself relating to that you know like i i think i bring even feminine energy to a relationship too or and i and i've always liked women who are very confident themselves and i i like i guess a masculine energy on some levels from from the women i date but i've always enjoyed i guess a feminine energy in a sense yeah i like a i like someone who can be a boss so to speak and kind of has kind of line as energy if well who can kind of like be ferocious when when people kind of come at her people because it's impressive it's impressive it's hot yeah it's so. Yeah. It's so impressive. And it means really like you're empowered enough

to like stand on your own ground. Also, I feel like there's an element of like I've always been attracted to people who can take care of themselves, you know? And I say that as someone who really loves

to take care of the people I love, but it's... It's not because they need you to. It's like a treat. Yeah, it's more enjoyable when it's a treat. Yeah, rather than like... An obligation. Yeah. It's more enjoyable when it's a treat. Yeah. Rather than like.

An obligation. Yeah. Or like they're. Because yeah. I find it to be a turn off when I need to like. I think it's a lot of balance. Yeah. It's balancing both.

And I'm learning to do that. Like really just kind of like letting them lead in some regard. Not that I need them to. But I think that if not I found that in the past I have emasculated men without realizing. How so? I think that it's just, I mean, I'm, you know, a successful woman and I was dating a lot of men that were like close to my age or younger. And it's not to say that like young men like aren't successful or mature enough or whatever. But I think that like, I just found that it was a lot

for them. Like it was a lot like the internet following and the card game business and like being my own boss. Like I think that's a lot when you're dating someone who might not be there in their career yet. And I just felt like it was I just came on too strong. Okay. Oh, my goodness. I got a milk bar pie and I was like, this is perfect. I'm hosting a Friendsgiving in a few days. I'll bring this. Cut to that night. I'm like, it looks really good. I'll just, I'll try it. It's okay. It's not a big deal. Like, no, it doesn't matter. It is, I did not bring it

to Friendsgiving because it was one of the best desserts I've ever had in my life. I didn't eat all of it before, but I was like, I'm not sharing this. Unfortunately, I will not be sharing this. This is so, so, so good. And they have, not only do they have their Milk Bar Pie, but they have a whole variety of awesome seasonal products. If you want to impress people with a delicious dessert, or you just want to treat yourself, Milk Bar.

And, you know, we're very lucky because we live in Los Angeles. So we can go to some brick and mortar Milk Bar stores. If you do not have a Milk Bar store And we're very lucky because we live in Los Angeles. So we can go to some brick and mortar Milk Bar stores. If you do not have a Milk Bar store in your location, you are in luck. They ship nationwide. You can schedule your delivery ahead of time, make it so easy. Not another to do in the holiday season. Milk Bar is the perfect gift for anyone and everyone in your life this holiday season. For a limited time, Milk Bar is offering their delicious new chocolate chip mint cake and truffles and peppermint bark snap cookies. Just in time for the holidays, also get your hands on their limited quality of lab drops,

including their peppermint tie dye pie. That's fun to say. Made in a limited batches straight from their experimental kitchen. It's never too early to plan ahead. Place your order today to schedule your treats to be delivered right before the holidays. But if you waited last minute and need dessert stat, they also offer fast overnight nationwide delivery. So if you want to try Milk Bar, try them right now because Milk Bar has a special offer for a limited time only. Get $15 off any order of $80 or more when you go to milkbarstore.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's 15 buckaroos off an order

of $80 or more by going to milkbarstore.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is milkbarstore.com slash V-I-A-L-L. You know what the first thing I did this morning is? Did you use your Osea products? You know I use their ocean cleanser. On your body, on your face? I cannot say enough good things about Osea's products. They are all so high quality. They have body butters. They have an oil that's like undaria that is just really moisturizing, especially as it gets dry, as it

gets cold. You know, whether you're in like a proper winter place or a fake winter place like Los Angeles, you know you need to get some moisture up in there. And Osea is the best way to do it. It is just like the most high quality product. Well, they feel natural and they smell really good and they're effective. But I don't know, I feel like I'm at like a spa or the beach or something. I don't know. We also went and got facials at their actual store. 10 out of 10 would recommend. It makes a great gift for the holiday season. A six piece set of skin care and body care favorites in convenient and adorable travel size for a complete glow up from

head to toe. Also, you could try getting this for yourself or a friend. There are three best-selling face products. There are Ocean Cleanser, there are Hyaluronic Sea Serum, and Seabiotic Water Cream. All just making your skin supple all amazing and i think the

really nice thing about the pack of their six top selling products is that like everybody has products that like you love at first try and i think this is the best and fastest way to help someone find their version of that for osia because they have some absolute goodies for a gift that will impress check out osia's best-selling minis collection. Right now, our listeners get 10% off your first order with promo code VIALL at oseamalibu.com. You'll even get free samples with every order and orders over $50 get free shipping. That's 10% off at Osea, O-S-E-A, malibu.com, promo code V-I-A-L-L. That's oseamalibu.com, promo code V-I-A-L-L. That's OseaMalibu.com, promo code V-I-A-L-L.

You're actively in the dating space. How do you see kind of the dating landscape between heterosexual men and women who are trying to date each other? Because it seems like there's a lot of contention and frustration. What are some things that you think you would like to see men step up and do better? And What are some things that you think you would like to see men

step up and do better? And what are some things that you think women could maybe, you know, step up and do their part as well to, you know, bridge that gap between the genders? I think a lot of it comes down to communication. I think everything comes down to communication. I think that what I've noticed is that there's very, and I don't think that there's really a middle ground to this, like it's very obvious to me when there's a man that wants to be in a relationship and one that doesn't. Like, it's very clear. And when you meet a man that knows what he wants, it just makes everything so much easier. And I recently met my turning point man.

Your turning point man? My turning point man. What's that? Trademark. No, legit. It's like the man that makes me realize i need to that dating boys that chapter of my life is over the dating the and by boys i mean the the guy that isn't sure what he wants that is still like young and and and wants to sleep with women and that's great and like wants

to have fun but like you then you meet a guy who's maybe a little older, a little more successful, a little more, you know, sure of himself. And he says point blank like this, I'm ready. Like I'm ready. And then it's like everything about the dating experience for me has changed since then. Like I went on a date before the turning point man and he couldn't even pick the restaurant. And then I didn't want to pick the restaurant because I don't want to lead you want them to show initiative i want that right so but i did even though it's new york city and there's a million restaurants okay i'll suggest we suggest at the end of the meal he's like well if i'd known you were going to pick the most expensive

restaurant in new york oh which by the way like it wasn't and i was like you want the most expensive like you know but it was more like you couldn't take, you couldn't lead. And then you asked me for help. And then you criticized me, you know, now the turning point, man, he knows where we're going. He's picking me up in an Uber. He's, it's, we're not even thinking about the dinner and the meal. It's about the conversation, the communication, the connection, everything else is like noise, you know? Yeah. So I've noticed that ever since I've done that and I've started dating people that are like the turning point man, the guy that like is just like ever since I dated him, I can't go back. Well, I just think that a lot of it, what I see with women, I can speak more to women. I don't

want to like be here like criticizing men. It's more just like I think that like people are very honest from the beginning about what they want. And I think a lot of people lie to themselves or make excuses. And I did that too. I think a major problem that I saw is the talking stage. And I got totally sucked into it this summer. I was dating this guy and he was worked at a really intense job. So he couldn't see me a lot. And I realized that we were texting for three months and we'd only hung out like a handful of times, but I built him up so much in my head because we were texting all the time and we were sending like cute emojis and pictures and and then I went to Ibiza and he dumped me via text when I was on a at a fish shack and I like could not believe it like could not wrap my head around it I was completely blindsided

but then like in retrospect I'm like but we didn't even know each other like texting is not a way to get to know someone yeah correct and you weren't ever weren't ever FaceTiming or Zooming, just mostly text and a few dates? We were FaceTiming a little bit, but not enough. Yeah. How do you, like that talking stage? Because like your turning point, man, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I want someone who does, who leads, who takes the initiative, makes me feel like a priority. That all makes a lot of sense. If I were just to play devil's advocate in terms of from a guy's standpoint point of view, I'm just trying to think of what they would say or someone might say.

Early on in dating, how do you go from, if a guy is meant to want to take the lead or take the initiative, but also he's trying to figure things out too, right? Because I think there's, I think things have shifted a little bit between, you know, like in the past, it was very traditional, like, you know, guy makes a move, asks out, guy says, I love you first, guy pays. And now that's kind of changed a little bit. It's adjusted. And, and I weirdly think guys have also been like, well, sure. I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to sit back and wait too. And I want to see, I want to see, you know, we saw a lot of that on bachelor in paradise this season. All the guys were like, well, I want to be loved and pursued too. You know, like Justin was,

was saying that. So where do you, now that you see all your turning point guy, like, where do you, how much time or space or grace do you give to the people you're kind of getting to know for them to like sess you out versus take the initiative because they know they want something here? Am I making any sense? A hundred percent. So what I'm saying is I'm not saying like all these guys want to marry me. Like, I mean, they probably do. No, I'm just kidding. Like they, like, I'm not saying that.

I mean, hello, like around the block. Okay. I think what it is, and I think that's a fantastic question. I think that it's more like they are taking the initiative to get to know me. There you go. Not because they want a relationship with me, but because getting to know someone takes time. And this also kind of clicked for me where like I used to go on a first date and fall in love at first make out. Like I was like literally changing my last name in my notebook. I was like, is that going to work? I was like planning our futures together. Like I was like stalking their siblings and moms on Instagram. And after what? Two hours? Because I have a two drinks and ditch

rule for the first date. Two drinks and ditch rule. Yeah. You cap it at two drinks for the first date. Okay. And then you ditch no not like you know run but like no more drinks no more drinks do have plies at 7 a.m i don't care if it's real or fake you're leaving you know okay i think i like that it's good yeah keep it light it keeps you i think it's it's a rule for yourself it's a hundred it's a hundred percent rule for yourself i think that it's about taking the initiative to get to know someone and realizing that it's going to take a long time to know them and not idealize them right off the bat. Like, I literally get messages from girls all the time being like, we had the most perfect first date and then he ghosted me. And I'm like, yeah, it's that perfect first date.

I'm like, perfect first date. Perfect first date. It's just his first date. You don't know him. Still a total stranger. They're usually perfect. I mean, I have all my jokes lined up ready to go for the first date you don't know i'm still a total stranger they're usually perfect i mean i have all my jokes lined up ready to go for the first date you know so i'm a motherfucking comedian on that first date truly like i all the time i mean every sunday questions with nick

perfect first date you know how long do would you say that it takes to really get to know someone really get to know someone like in terms of because another thing is like you know a question that i know you get asked all the time which is like the what are we conversation yeah it's more i define it like as i even mentioned the book i define it in more how long does it take to like build emotional connection with someone correct to how long do you think i would say months not weeks i agree and i would say months, not weeks. I agree. And I would say multiple dates, right? That's not an excuse for like, say, like a fuck boy or someone else to pull out

from the relationship. But I just mean, and I also think progress matters. You know, like there's a line in business. If you're not growing, you're dying, right? I think that works in relationships too. Like, it's not so much about like, oh, well, I have to define the relationship by a certain date.

We need an emotional connection by a certain date. It's just like, are you continuing to get to know each other? Do you feel like it's not so much about like, oh, I have to define the relationship by a certain date. We need emotional connection by a certain date. It's just like, are you continuing to get to know each other? Do you feel like it's progressing? Is there more interest than less interest? Are they making you more of a priority than less of a priority? If those things are progressing, it can take a long time. But yeah, I think you need to meet some conflict. You need to disagree a little bit. You need to like, need some friends you need you know it's it's that point in the relationship i don't know how long it takes but it's it's when you are not wondering how they think and feel about you all the time exactly like you talk a

lot about seeing someone disappointed like i think there's those kind of like situational milestones of like context that bring out a new side of someone do you have any like kind of not necessarily I don't want to say turning point because that's different for the man but like in terms of things like scenarios that you've been in that have really like uncovered someone's character or a dimension of their personality that's really relevant to dating them totally it's time and conversation like you get to know more and more and more about them and their views on life and how they interact with their friends or what their friends are like which i think tells you a lot i think like you can have sex with them you know not to say that you should

write someone off you know if the sex isn't good on the first time but i think that it just takes a lot of time going on a vacation with a partner i think that that's gonna help i think it's important to see what they're like in the airport yeah and i think it's just a balance yeah it's really important to know what someone's like at the airport yeah like what happens when you you know like how quick are they taking off their you know stuff on tsa like i need to know like what kind of traveler are you like how many snacks are you buying like are you arriving 10 minutes before are you like a three-hour person like those are important things yeah and i think to combat like people using that as an

excuse not to commit or define a relationship it's things have to be progressing things have to be and i always say you can define a relationship without giving the labels of boyfriend and girlfriends it's just defining a relationship is just setting expectations and boundaries with each other like what are you okay with going forward? Like, I don't want to keep like sleeping over at your house every night without like some certainty that you're not fucking other people. Or I want to keep seeing you more and the other person doesn't. Like, yeah, I'd love to, like define the relationship. It'd be like, I'd love to see you a lot more.

Can I see you next week? And then that person says, I would love that too. How was Tuesday? A hundred percent. I think that people don't do that because they're afraid of the answer when i honestly would want to know at some point like are we on the same page the last couple relationships i've had like long-term ones the question of are we dating didn't really even it was obvious like it was so obvious that we were on the same page

did you avoid the conversation no i think like it just we're spending all of our time together talking every day like eventually i think it was like will you be my girlfriend or like why haven't you asked me to be your girlfriend or something silly which i know you probably don't like why haven't you asked me because like you decide bitch but like it was like a silly cute little thing but i wouldn't say it like that right of course i would as okay what but um i think it's too many times with friends with myself even like the beginning stage of a relationship should feel I think it should feel usually easy I think it should flow no it should flow yeah like if you have anxiety even okay something that I was doing

a lot this summer especially with the texting guy was like screenshotting every text that this guy would send me and texting it to like the group chat being like, what should I say? Yeah. And then this turning point guy that I'm dating, I don't even think twice. And I thought like, wow, that for me is such a good indicator that I feel safe in this relationship.

And I don't mean relationship as more dating boyfriend, girlfriend, but the progression. I feel safe to just say something and not worry that he might walk away. But that's about me and my confidence level. And also just feeling like he, there's a synergy there. I think I started, and I think this comes with age and perspective. Like literally there's just so many people on this fucking planet. So I would rather just move on. Like if you, if you don't like me, no problem. Like let's move on.

Let's keep it moving. Yeah. I think you were speaking about kind of overcoming the way that people are conditioned to kind of be the cool girl or pick me girl behavior of like, I want someone to like, I'm going to be passive and like all of these other ways that learned behaviors people like women have. And I'm curious for you, like both with yourself and then also the people you work with, like what are some things that's really important for folks to unlearn in order to like stop holding themselves back. I mean, first and foremost, that you aren't deserving of an amazing relationship and love and that, you know, you don't have to settle, you know, like I don't give a shit if he was like really nice to you and he ordered you an Uber, like the bar is so fucking low. I can't. But like,

it's like, no, but really like it's's like, it's, you need to know within yourself that like you deserve the best. And what I tell people to do is think about if your best friend came to you and, and with all this, right. Being like, well, he has ignored me for a week, but now he wants to see me like at night. And like, you know, it's like, what would you tell her? That's what you have to tell to yourself. It always comes back to yourself and like the, the, the love you have for yourself and that's kind of like the core of the work that i do totally yeah and i love the analogy of like being a best friend to yourself because you know people often give advice advice to their friends they wouldn't give it themselves and they're usually doing it again obviously it gets the ego of being like we

don't really care about you being happy and obviously you're you're we always are looking to our egos to be that friend and we shouldn't we should look to our you know i don't know what the alternative is but it's not the thing that's saying what's the way that make us feel the most valid and special compared to everyone else and that usually and that's when that pick me energy comes from because it's it's being the person that they finally pick because they didn't pick all the rest you know and that's when you're really fucked. Right, 100%. And I feel like, but you just have to get to a place

where like, I'm 28 years old and I was at a bachelorette this weekend, I'm going to a bachelorette next weekend. I have friends that are pregnant, married. Like, it's so easy for me to fall into the, oh my God, I'm scared I'm not gonna meet my, I think that I will meet my person the same way that my name is serena fucking kerrigan it's just a fact the same way nick has a great book it's just a fact so i believe

it so much that i let it flow and i let the universe do its thing i mean that's perfect and it will happen a hundred percent it's not that's not really not a matter of if if you believe it because and you just you just have to and I'm assuming you're okay with it happening on the universe's timeline and not, not yours. Absolutely. Because I think that even, and I've been in therapy since I was seven years old and I like took a break for a while. I was like, bitch, like I'm done. Like I graduated from school therapy. And then I was like, no, wait, I'm not. And I realized I had a lot more work to do a lot about this persona and how I want to show up on dates and what do I really want from a relationship. Like, it's fun to be the boss, but like, it's also, it is nice to be taken care of. Not because I have to be or I need it, but because it's nice to be nurtured and have someone, you be someone's priority. And that's okay to say. That's not like a weak thing. And so I'm, that's been what I've been working on. And since doing that work, the level of men has, I think, shifted. I think I'm dating a lot more high value men that are sure of

themselves, that love that I have a career and that I'm successful and aren't intimidated by that. I know you have your, what's your dating game called? Let's fucking date. Oh, great. There you go. I know you have a girlfriend, but let's fucking date. We're going to play that in a second. But before we do, I want to talk a lot about White Lotus with you because I haven't talked about it with anyone else and I know you're all caught up a girlfriend but let's fucking date uh we're gonna play that in a second but before we do i want to talk about white light white lotus with you because i haven't talked about it with anyone else and i know you're all caught up okay let's do it what do you think about the season so far fucking amazing you i love it i i i saw this internet rumor so i can't take

credit from it but spoiler alert uh sorry amanda but like that was that was him and the cowboy he's the cowboy yes the ex is the cowboy. Yes. Yeah. And so she's the target. Tanya. Yeah. Right. Tanya is like. Tanya's husband.

There's a whole confidence game going on. I think that. They're trying to take her money. They're trying to take her money. Yeah. I think they're trying to take Tanya's money. The guy that is at the Palazzo. I think they're conspiring.

Because we saw at the top of the season season her husband Greg is called. Greg is like talking to someone being I love you and then yeah Tanya you know we just last year doing blow and like getting eaten out by that guy. I think they're gonna make her death seem like a suicide. You think she dies?

Tanya yeah. Or they try to kill Tanya but Portia dies her assistant. You think Portia or or maybe jack the guy that porsche has been fucking i'm fine with him dying me too he's so annoying when i was watching the episode i was like i've been in that situation where like you're with this really hot guy and you're so excited and then like he starts getting drunk and you're like oh my god like you're you lose yeah and the uh like it doesn't matter let's just have fun like you know like energy like i hate that guy hey i'm like i don't want to have fun no i hate i hate that energy what then what's going to happen with uh

theo james and his his posse i feel like it's a completely separate story i how how are they going to start interacting with each other i think that uh who's the husband the other husband harper's husband ethan ethan i feel like ethan could kill cam i could see yeah or harper i mean there was like a lot of intense music when she saw him talking to the prostitutes i think lucia could die the prostitute is alessio her pimp a is she in on it like is he actually like they could be conspiring together some sort of scam to potentially i think that's what's so brilliant about the show is there's really truly so many possibilities i think my biggest critic i also i've gotten a lot of and i don't see it i gotta everyone's keep saying i'm looking like theo

james from white littles too i don't oh wow that was a really nice complimentles 2. I don't. Oh, wow. That was a really nice compliment. It is nice. I don't see it, but I've gotten it a lot since it's happened. I've gotten him before, but I've gotten it a ton since it's come out. But I also, like his character

is very unlikable. But I think. Is that why they're saying that? No. Well, I will say, I think my biggest critic, like if they have an idea of me, I think it's him. I think my biggest critic, like if they have an idea of me, I think it's him.

I think my biggest hater thinks I embody that character. You don't. No, I know I don't. But I'm confident I don't. No, you really don't, Nick. In case you're worried, don't worry. But I think if my biggest critic is watching this, they think I embody that guy. I mean, now that you said it.

Yeah. That's a really interesting question. Like, what do you perceive the people who don't like you? Like, what do you perceive that like character mutation version of you like that they're thinking of? It's this cam character on White Lotus 2 played by Theo James. Do you have an answer? Like Regina George, which I'm so happy to be yeah powerful but i'm like why do you why do you think that no i mean i'm actually i feel like i'm super

nice so i don't know i don't know why i rub people the wrong way and i know i do like i've seen i've seen the thing you have a big personality right and it's just it comes with the territory yeah and you're unapologetic for that big personality and you are willing to speak your mind at the risk of people disagreeing with it and you set yourself up for people to disagree with it you know if you share your opinion with confidence it it attracts criticism totally i also think people like to feel needed and when you're being unconfident what you're kind of saying to other people is like i need you to validate or like back this up and i think to come in with such strong independent energy and be like i don't fucking need you i know exactly where i stand is probably like an ego a little ego bruise to people there's also like when you

give off the vibe of i don't care what you think or even you say i don't care what you think people love victoria people love to test that theory for sure you. It's like, oh, okay, you don't care? Well, let me go ahead and troll you for a moment and pick apart whatever I think your insecurities are about yourself. I do believe, my girlfriend Nellie and I disagree about this. She is, and it makes a lot of sense.

She learned this from her mom. She's just like, she doesn't publicly put out what she's insecure about for the very reason that gives people ammunition against her. And she can voice her insecurities to people like me and her friends, but she doesn't.

I'm of the, well, if you can own an insecurity and put it out there while people will try to use it against you, it makes it harder to do. I think when you're honest about what you're insecure about or what you're struggling with, it removes a layer of shame. And that's very empowering. Like you feel like, because people are like, I feel that way too. I think when you're honest about what you're insecure about or what you're struggling with, it removes a layer of shame. Yeah. And that's very empowering. Like you feel like because people are like, I feel that way too. It's not about getting the validation from comments or followers.

It's about sharing how you feel about something. And it's almost like keeping it secret or, you know, but I get that she's telling you and her friends. So that's important too. I think I agree that you need boundaries on the internet. I think that's also why I also kind of created this persona because I wanted there to be some kind of buffer because it does get

pretty vicious sometimes. Not to use that word again. But I think that sometimes when you're really honest like I've noticed like it just it's like this relief like that wasn't so scary

to be honest about. Yeah like we were all doing this performance and now you're admitting that like you're a breaking character and now I can too in a way that's like so much more safe. It's such a huge relief to like admitted vulnerability.

Yeah. Even in a relationship, especially if you're about to fight with your partner, just to tell them like. To like humanize yourself. I have found that to be a great way to avoid conflict in a relationship. You just break down crying. Yeah. conflict in a in a relationship you just break down crying yeah that no but like if my partner like if i am i am i if i'm frustrated with my partner about something because usually what happens in that situation you're like all right like no one wants to well most people don't want

to fight but even in relationships you're just like i'm frustrated i'm mad how do i address this and usually it's just like hey can we talk and it's upsetting me that you do this like Like usually that's how these conversations start. I'm upset and you did something. And it's always some version of that. And even though we're saying it like calmly and I don't want to fight, but like it's always starts with I'm upset and you did something. Right. Which immediately just puts your partner on the defense. Well, it's just like, well, but you did, you know, it always goes that way. And I just started trying to like kind of center my insecurities of like, hey, I'm feeling insecure about this right now. And honestly, I don't know where it's coming from. I'm probably sensitive about this.

I'm probably there's a level of overreacting. But I also don't think I'm crazy. And I think, you know, like I'd love to talk about with you because there's some things I'm noticing too. And again, I'm not pointing the finger. I'm just like, could we talk about this? Could we talk about this, about the thing that I'm feeling so that I don't feel it anymore? And it's the best thing to do. It works great. You know, it's worked really well with Natalie and I, and we've tried that. And for years I was always like, I'm upset because you're doing this. Always feeling justified

because of my feelings. But it's like, it's not that, maybe she's doing something, but it's triggering a feeling within you. Yeah. That's your own.

So leading with, I feel this way versus you did this is like, it's the way to handle conflict. It's going, it went really well. So it's gone.

Yeah. So, but yeah, it comes from being able to name that insecurity. And I think it's something guys could probably yeah it comes from being able to name that insecurity and i think it's something guys could probably work on a lot more because i don't think they're very used to saying i'm feeling insecure right now can we work on it but i will say you know it takes a lot of vulnerability because you are sharing that insecurity and i don't i think a lot of partners

often unfortunately weaponize that in relationships right you don't think so i don't know that would be really fucking shitty if you you know shared your vulnerability with your partner and then they use that against you yeah they do sometimes or judge you for it or bring it up later but yeah it can be but also if you do that and and they weaponize it that's that should be a non-negotiable that's like a fireable offense fireable offense yeah and i think too many people put up with that shit in relationships to have their insecurities used against them yeah i feel like insecurity and loneliness are two emotions that like i found it really hard to acknowledge or identify within myself for a really long time and then all of a sudden when i did i

was like wow like it is so much more empowering and like okay like getting over this hump and being on the other side of it because like there's those are just two things that i think it feels so like vulnerable to step into of like it's a lot to take on i think and it feels really really like it's like the worst least desirable thing that you could be yeah when your partner shares a vulnerability you should really pay attention yeah and nurture and care it yeah and friends too three people are gonna die in white lotus you think i was not prepared for that yeah who do you think is in the water well i saw like a tiktok clip it looked like a a woman's foot okay that would check if it was tanya or porsche because they're also not they're in porto they're away from the hotel right now. So that would mean they have to get on a boat back.

The opening scene was, what was Cam's wife's name? Daphne. Daphne. She was like at the beach ready to leave the vacation. She seemed in good spirits. True.

So I don't think Cam's dead. But that might not be the last scene of the show. Maybe that's not the last scene. She's in good spirits before she finds the body in the water. Sure.

But she was on her way to, yeah, you're right. To Serena's point, maybe it's like not quite the end. It's not the last scene the water. Sure, but she was on her way to, yeah, you're right. To Serena's point, maybe it's like not quite the end. It's not the last scene. Yeah. Yeah. Or the last few scenes.

It's like, huh. Something, I will say something about Cam not paying, who is it, Luchella? Lucia. Lucia is going to play a significant role. Totally sus. Yeah.

He hasn't paid her for the sex the sex i also think that he planted the condom like on the couch i think him in uh yeah because him in him in they're like swingers they're like they have an open relationship it's sure it sure seems like so you're right because when he his friend not cam ethan ethan when ethan was like hey bro she found the cam and cam's like oh fuck you're like oh like i shouldn't but you're right like he probably should have said to ethan whatever i'll just tell her it was me but he clearly didn't do you think that cam and harper actually were like no i think harper is just trying to fuck with ethan and just try to get a

reaction from him but like Cam would have fucked Harper. But Harper is disgusted by Ethan, I think, in general. And she's just trying to set him. She's trying to make Ethan jealous. And obviously it's going to backfire somehow. Yeah. I love it. It's a great show.

All right. Let's fucking date. Let's fucking date. How do we play this game? Okay. Well, there's four bases. First base, second base, third base, home fucking run. I sent this to you to play with Natalie.

So, and they also have three. I have date fucking play. We'll do date. What's a red flag that you wish you hadn't ignored? Well, I mean, when I was being cheated on, like her coming home at four in the morning on the regular. Yeah. Right.

That feels a little late. Yeah. So on the third date I went on recently, the guy accidentally called me Sarah. Do we think that that's a red flag I should ignore? He felt really bad. What do we think? Oh, wait.

The question was, what's a red flag you wish you hadn't ignored? Hadn't ignored. Okay. Right. So. Yeah, I think you can ignore that. Okay. Freudian slip. I think there's a lot of versions where it's not a big deal.

Okay. Yeah. This is reminding me, my friend mentioned this scenario that I think would be kind of a fodder for debate of, is it a red flag or not? He was working at a restaurant. He's like in LA to be an actor, like very good, like conventionally good looking. And a girl came up to him and asked for his number while he was on the job. He gave it to her. And she said, after the fact, it was because the person she was with was friends with her ex. And so she really wanted it to get back to her ex that she was getting this like hot waiter's number. Do we think that's a red flag? Say that again?

who she thinks is good looking yeah and then like after the fact like that guy who gave her his number realizes it's because she was with someone who was friends with her ex and so she was hoping her like getting this waiter's number got back to her ex it's like oh she's like back out there yeah because there's not a good intention in getting the number she's not actively trying to date she's using someone right yeah well i to date this waiter. This came out after when they were hanging out and they were getting along very well. It was a genuine connection. She did genuinely have... She ended up going out with the waiter?

Yeah. She didn't say only. She said a part of why I asked you. We like the honesty. I think it's fine.'s fine i mean listen you clock their manipulation you know they're a bit manipulative what's back to your scenario what is i think it's a red flag you can look past but i think there's a very important follow-up question you need to ask who's sarah more importantly uh

what do you think of sarah i don't know no no that's the question oh you need to know oh i didn't it's a freudian slip for sure but in what context are they view what lens are they viewing positive negative do you think of sarah positively or do you think of sarah negatively it's just like i have no i'm neutral truly like it bothered me in the moment but he felt like them i want i want to know what he thinks of Sarah. Yeah. Right. Who is Sarah?

Yeah. Who is she? You don't even, you don't even know who Sarah is. You just would be like, it's fine. It's cool. But what do you think of Sarah? That's great. That's a great response.

Because if it's. Because then you know. Sarah is great. Sarah is fun. Sarah is cool. She was such a cool time. Now it's got to be careful because someone from his past, but like you would like reading his energy.

Does he want to, is he, is he trying not to sound, say too many nice things because he doesn't want to make you uncomfortable. Or is he trying not to talk shit? Correct. You know, because when I do a Freudian slip,

it's like, you know, one time I was fighting with my current girlfriend and I called her my ex girlfriend around the same friend. And it was because like we were fighting and I used to fight with that girlfriend. And it was like, I was fighting with my current girlfriend and I called her my ex-girlfriend around the same friend. And it was because we were fighting and I used to fight with that girlfriend. And I was in the very same environment as a previous girlfriend. And that just took me back to that place. And then she just became that girlfriend in that moment.

And it was not a good reason. There was nothing going on with the Like, it was like, you know, there was nothing going on with the ex. That was like years earlier, but it was something that she didn't want me to say because it came from a negative place of being very upset with them and very frustrated with them. So I think I want to know

what's the genesis of the Freud, so to speak. I'll be like, let's unpack that. Yeah. I'm going to let that one go. But if it happens again, well. Like, what do you think of Sarah? Tell me about Sarah. Yeah.

Positive or negative. What are your thoughts? Next question. Tell me about the worst sex you've ever had. Me? Yeah. What worst sex have I ever had? I don't know if I really had.

You've never had bad sex? Sure I have. Like, I've had. You've never had bad sex? Sure I have. Like I've had. What a flex. No. I think sex is all about making each other feel comfortable. And that's always been a priority for me. But I've, you know, like as a guy, it's okay.

I've, it wasn't even bad sex, but I've had had i think i've told this story before but like they were you know like i can always you know if someone like watches too much porn and i think sometimes uh when dirty talk goes wrong that's when i yeah i don't i'm not i'm not enjoying it i have in my mind mentally thought shut the fuck up right you know like where they just keep saying the dirty talk and you know start talking about like i'm coming and i'm like we just started right you know like not possible you just make out with them to make them quiet is that your go-to move i don't i don't really have a move i don't have a recovery move that that was something that would make the experience awkward but it wasn't like bad sex. It was just more

me feeling... I felt it made me feel disconnected to them. It's when dirty talk goes bad. What about you? The jackhammer move was scary for a while. Sure. You mean like the...

I think to your point, it's like sex is a it's an it's a language of intimacy so i think like i've noticed as i've gotten older like i don't want to have sex with like you know just random people yeah as fun as anyone i'd say can be sometimes i think like there needs to be a level of like respect and communication and and i just feel like getting rammed you know it's just like sometimes it's not what I want. Yeah. Like I feel like there's like the moment of like you're getting rammed and you're like, hmm, how did I get here?

Let's rewind. It's like a little rabbit. Yeah. How as women who are participating in hookup culture, how do you- Participant. How do you, I mean, like how do you try to ensure you're going to have a good time because i do think a lot goes on the responsibility of men to you know what i'm saying to like are men going to participate in foreplay are they going to are they going to do

the whole like just go in hit it and quit it be be aggressive. How, if at all, are you trying to communicate that with someone you barely know? Or do you just kind of hope for the best? What advice would you have for women out there participating in hookup culture who are trying to enjoy this experience without knowing too much? How many conversations are happening

about likes and dislikes prior to like hooking up with someone who's essentially a complete stranger? Well, if you have my card game, it helps because there's a lot of questions about what you like during sex. And I feel like that kind of pre-communication is, and is the reason why a lot of people have like the best sex of their life for my game. Not to plug it, but it's true. No, it's-

That's why I created it, to create that kind of, and it can be with a rando, but if you're not- So someone should be participating in hookup culture, should be carrying around this card in their purse at all times because if they meet someone they want to slam night one or night two, they're like, before we do, we must play this game. Maybe even for some drinks, it'll be fun. And it'll honestly spice up the mood. It'll get us going.

And in the meantime, you get some notes. Oh my God. Does someone have that on tape? Like, I love that. That was the best piece of content ever. Thank you. We literally do. Hashtag sponsored. And you're also allowed to talk about it during like that was one thing i was really struck by when i was like hooking up with women and it was like

newer to me was like how much more free-flowing the communication was and normalized and it wasn't like some big like you're in trouble and you did something wrong you're get like it was just like it was like a genuine curiosity and an openness you know you're in trouble that sounds terrifying that's what i mean like it wasn't like that like i think sometimes when people think about trying to communicate or correct check in yeah yeah like give a note they think about like someone feeling like chastised or feeling like embarrassed that they're like not doing it right i feel bad for saying i wanted this i'm like why like it only also improves the whole experience for everyone. I think communication is really key.

I think there's ways that you can kind of, you know, like gesture. Also, yeah, move their hands. Like to your question about like what can you like literally move their hands. In a consensual way, of course. In a consensual way. Like if they're like not doing it quite right. Yeah. Also, could we, what if like beforehand, how could you, what's a question you could ask guys or women or whatever, each other to see if they're willing to take a note, right?

Because it comes down to, can they take criticism of any kind? And maybe just questions around that. I feel like you can do it in like a positive, like, I think one question that I asked that that took a guy by surprise was I at one point was like, what do you need slash want right now? And he was completely taken aback because he'd never been asked that before. But you can also like lead by example in that way, because then you would hope that they would ask the same thing. Totally. Yeah. That's such a good point. Like if they don't reciprocate the question, then it's like, they're not going to reciprocate anything else. Yeah, I typically ask, like, does that feel good? Like, does this feel good?

I think that that's like a fun way. It's kind of hot. Would you say, and when it doesn't feel good? Well, it never doesn't feel good, but I'm just kidding. Sorry. But if it doesn't, what would you say? Like, how do you give that note? Well, I think it's like, oh, sorry.

If someone said to me me you're in the middle of hooking up okay you're like does it feel good and he says no well i guess i'm reversing the roles let's say he's he's doing the thing he's checking and he's like hey babe does it feel good and you're actually thinking well not really uh how do you give that sorry this happened to me really really recently um he, man. He was literally changing positions like, like,

like a lot. Like it felt, Shapeshifter. Like it felt like we were like an You watch too much porn, I already know. Yeah, like it was like

a lot of like flipping and turning and I was just like, I was just like, can we just slow down like a little bit? And he was just like, oh yeah, like,

you know, and that's what it was. It was just like, can we slow down? And immediately like, I think that like, they want you to feel good and they want you to enjoy the experience and if they don't you shouldn't be fucking that anyway yeah i agree i i think so but i don't i can't speak for all men do you think the men that you see out there

in the dating space genuinely most of them not you know want it to be a mutually enjoyable experience and if they don't the way i'm like shook to my core like the way that like men don't engage in foreplay and they just like stick it in there like as like i just it's really shocking so and that that's happening i don't think it's i think it's happened i think if you date if you tend to date older men with more experience then maybe you have a better success right it's such an age thing. It is. It's like really, I think, and I also think it's a long-term relationship thing where

like, I feel like I can tell when a guy has had a long-term girlfriend because I'm like, you were trained. You came in here, like, you know the job. And of course, there's like different, you have a different boss now, but like, it is kind of, I think there's like a level of like attention and like a kind of like if you know, you know, type thing. Yes, I think it's an age thing. Yeah. Next question.

What would you call a reality TV show about your life? A reality TV show about my life? But we need Robin here. Yeah, sure. I don't know. Do you have any ideas? Don't text her. I'm happy for you.

Sure. Yeah. A reality TV show about my life. Like, I don't know. Like, right now I'm thinking, do I want to be snarky? Do I want to be, like, genuine? Do I want to be, I don't know, about my life? Overthink about it?

Overthinking about, you know, it's not a show. Yeah. No, that's what I thought, too. I think there's a book called Overthinking About You oh yeah we had her on the podcast allison there you go why is that something i know there's a it's a book name cabinet doors of my mind allison raskin raskin uh shout out um i don't know i don't have a good one okay moving on moving on compliment yourself compliment myself well you're already kind of did with the Theo James. I'm kidding.

I don't see it. I really don't. I'm kidding. But I've really gotten it a lot recently. Compliment myself. You can always count on me. That's a great compliment. Yeah.

If I tell you, you can. I agree. Yeah. Okay, the last one. This is my favorite question. And I always ask this on a first date. If you were a type of soup, what soup would you be? I'll go first.

Okay, thank you. I would be French onion because I'm like decadent, performative, but gooey on the inside. Like I have a lot of layers. I can be cheesy at times. Yeah, I'm a show-stopping soup. French in aesthetic. i am partly french canadian so there you go i'm gonna say chicken noodle okay but why not because it's your favorite it is but also it's a obviously a basic soup and at the end of the day i think i am fairly basic okay a classic i am a classic. Yeah.

But I think you can dress it up with a lot of things that make it like really pop and stylish. And I'm always good for a good dress up, you know? And my roots are a basic classic man. Consistent. I also think it's the classic, like when you're sick food. Yeah. And so I think it goes back to what you're saying before about like, you know, there for you when you're sick. Always. You can always count goes back to what you're saying before about like you know there for you when you're sick always you can always count on the

chicken noodle you can always count on chicken noodle you can always count on chicken noodle nick we did it branding do we want to hit some pop quickly yeah do we all see kiki palmer's pregnancy announcement during her SNL hosting stand? I, first of all, iconic. Yeah, what an iconic. Yeah. Can we take a moment to appreciate Kiki Palmer, Akilah and the Bee, amazing movie, jump in with Corbin Bleu.

Do people remember the era of movies? But also I have a question for the group, which is if you, assuming like kind of world's your oyster, you have all of these, any opportunity you could ever want, like where would you want to have a huge pregnancy announcement? Like Met Gala, hosting SNL, like those kinds of like top tier Met Gala. Met Gala. I mean, you can have a Met Gala. Thanks.

It's, yeah. Pregnancy announcement. SNL is pretty iconic. Yeah. That's great. And also the reveal. Beyonce did it at the VMAs, right? It's great and also the reveal beyonce did it at the vmh yeah it's very similar little jacket situation it's more fun for you if you're pregnant at the

mad gala i feel like there's a lot to work with potentially nick is thinking like how can i sorry just it made me think what do you think of couples who are like we're pregnant are you gonna say that i'm sorry that was would you ever do you think of couples who are like, we're pregnant? Uh-uh. How do you feel about it? Are you going to say that? I'm sorry. Would you ever say that? When couples are like, we're pregnant as opposed to I am pregnant. I honestly, I don't think I've ever thought about it. So it would be disingenuous to me to say, oh, I would never think about that because I already know the room and how they feel about that.

He's going to answer in authentic language. So I don't know how to. So the answer is he would say we're pregnant. I don't think we would. I have no problem at all letting her get all the credit for all of that. Well, I think there's a difference too. You can say we are having a baby or we're going to be parents, but it's the we're pregnant.

No, we're not. Yeah, I really agree. Is that something you bring up on dates pretty early on, like family planning, like aspirations? It's been asked to me more, I think. Really? Yeah. Because I think that I've been dating men in their mid to late thirties. And I think that that's something that if they want it, they want to know pretty right off the bat. And I don't mean first date. I mean like third or fourth. Gotcha.

And as someone who is at some mid to late 30s, so you're actively dating people who aren't just like a year or two older than you. You're actively dating people who are, there's a bit of an age gap. Yes. And it's made the world of difference. Okay. I'm obviously in a relationship with someone I have an age gap with. What are things, concerns to look out for or we obviously heard why it works there's a potential maturity spike but what are some

challenges that you have experienced or things to look out for if you're are dating someone who's older than you you know you're a confident person i mean maybe they don't like want to rage like i do but like maybe like it's okay like i don't know like i haven't really had any the age hasn't been a problem i get why it's not a problem for you maybe it's it is like a family planning situation like maybe that that's really what they're they want to do sooner than maybe i'm ready i don't know i think at the end of the day you have to be your confident authentic self if you're going to date with someone who has an age gap. Obviously, the common criticism

is the potential power dynamic shift. And if you don't feel confident to speak up for yourself in a situation, then that situation is not going to work out for you. Clearly, you're not that person. So it makes sense. But yeah, if you meet someone older than you and you already have a hard time, all the things that we talked about, whether it's...

Yeah, like the all too well effect. Yeah, or just talking about what you like and bad or just speaking up for yourself or communicating and being upfront and not having a problem with setting your boundaries and just, hey, not hurting feelings, even're, you're being honest, then I think it's, it works. But if you're, if you struggle with all those things, then it can be a challenge to date someone older than you, because then the power dynamic, I think can shift quickly.

I found that it's easier to communicate with people that are, I get that I'm a bit of like an anomaly, but like, I find that older men are, tend to be more mature and tend to have better communication styles. So they make more room for me to talk about. Yeah. I think that just speaks because of how,

how sure of, yeah, how you receive it like that because of how sure you're sure of yourself. You are recently. I've been dating this guy and he's been teaching me a lot about, you know, movies and things that maybe like I didn't, I wasn't privy to.

Yeah. Well, there's always that. I love that in a relationship. I don't mind that at all like you know that's what i'm saying there are things that like natalie like coaches me up on and vice versa but that's just more like fun yeah like keeps me fresh and it and i feel like it you know keeps her a little bit more informed i guess i don't know like i don't know what how you call it but yeah just expanding your cultural horizons yeah we're both expanding our horizons i guess i don't know like I don't know what how you call it but yeah just expanding your cultural yeah we're both expanding our horizons I guess I don't know but how would I announce my pregnancy

I don't my pregnancy well I have a question how do you feel about couples sorry to interrupt but how do you feel about couples like monetizing their pregnancy results like the true blue like I don't give a shit. Okay. Make your money. Yeah, get your bag. Get your bag. Pay for their watch.

Yeah, Julia Fox, if she gets pregnant, oh my God. Like think about the brand department. I just think she's the epitome of getting your bag. I did see something on the internet that there's like some 18-year-old who's suing her parents for some pictures they posted of her earlier in life oh that's when it's going to start and yeah that's interesting that really made me

think 10 years from now 15 years from now we already are are embracing a culture that's more independent and like we talk about family values in this show all the time and we talk about how as adults we have to learn to stand up for our parents. And they're not the gods that we all thought they were when we were six. That being said, I still have an immense amount of respect for my parents. And I'm blessed to have great parents. But yeah, I think with all the how crazy we have been. I mean, who knows what 10 and 15 years from now the world is going to

look like because we are responding to social media. We're not necessarily figuring out how we should treat social media. We're just like, it's a rat race. We're like, just do it. We're reacting. And so we don't really know. Everything's documented, everything. And so yeah, imagine some 18, 19-year year old kid who's not getting along with mom and dad and there's going to be there will be some sort of major court case that will have make some sort of this precedent one way or the other about one's parents ability to host about their kids and their likeness and their image and who owns that and who's responsible for that and all very fascinating right but i mean it's similar with child stars right i mean it's a very similar thing i think

like making your kids work or a young age well i also just think it's interesting for parents to have this instagram history for their kids to find because i feel like before with us like it was kind of like wild west like our parents maybe knew some things like scare tactics on the internet that they read but they couldn't really police instagram use like they don't actually like they didn't know it well enough to be able to like regulate or like parent us through it and it's going to be so interesting like this first instagram generation where it's like the pictures of like someone from like a college like crush party where you're like you know like all like whatever else you have from your debauchery days your mom's nudes and dad's dick pics are not going to be hard to find.

I was like, Karen and Jack, no. Which like could create a really more open, you know, free environment. But like, yeah,

we are, we are posting so much about ourselves. Oh, it's really, it's weird. We have our callers. All right. It's scary. It's weird. We have our callers. All right. It's time for texting office hours.

How's it going? I'm good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Jess and I'm 25. How can we help Jess? Okay.

So I met this guy back in April. We went on some dates, kind of determined it was a situation ship. Things fizzled in the summer after a couple of things he did. And I haven't spoken to him since, but I ran into him last week. And he asked me out on a date. So I'm kind of trying to figure out where to go from here. What were the couple of things he did? Well, we kind of determined that we were not going to put a label on things,

but kind of exclusively date. And then he kind of just stopped talking to me for a little while, like about a week, kind of like short responses. But then it was fine. But then probably two weeks after that, like weird, it wasn't like ghosting. It was just like very minimal responses was my birthday. And it was very low key. Like I put no pressure on this.

Me and my friends were just going to go out to a bar and he was very low key. Like I put no pressure on this. Me and my friends were just going to go out to a bar and he was going to come hang out with us and then go to the bar with us. He was like, okay, change your plans. I'll meet you guys there. Great. The line was really long. So I texted him. I was like, are you in line? Like, do you want to come up with us? He said, no, I'm at home. And I said, okay, are you are you coming because like I don't live in a small town but it's like easy to get to the bars in the town and he said no I'm not coming I'm sunburned and that was his excuse for not coming to hang out with me on my birthday and like that was kind of where I drew the line because we were like I don't know it if, at that point, we've been talking for three months.

And then he just like bailed because he was sunburned. Yeah. And then that's kind of when things started going downhill. And in the words of Allie and AJ, except for the fact it was my birthday, my fucking birthday. All right. So and then, so I'm a little confused by the timeline so you hung out with this guy for give or take three months and did this all happen before he half ghosted or this was after he tried to come back so that's the issue is that okay so we talked for like two and a half months and then we like

kind of had a conversation about like what we were doing we like agreed on it and then which was what like for um i guess the best way to say it is like a situation ship we were saying like we're not going on dates with other people but we're not putting a label on this like you call that a situation ship i don't know like i i was fine with where we were putting it because like i knew like i was going to be really busy over summer so i didn't want to like jump into something that like i wouldn't have time for and like stress myself out about for it interesting so you you you met a guy and then you hung out for a couple months or some period of time and then you try to set some expectations around like what this was and you thought you agreed to like stop sleeping with other people right but but you all but my question to you is your mindset there and you just wanted to like

maintain that or did you want to stop sleeping with other people maybe not put on a label yet but progress to get to know him to decide whether you wanted to be a relationship or not or were you actually just like we'll just do this forever until further notice, which, which one's one words, your mindset more closely aligned with. It was more like, we'll keep it casual,

like how we're doing it now with no labels. But then in the future, like we're like, we were communication between us. It was like, wasn't great, but we were very explicit. Well,

I was explicit in this point and I was like, if like further feelings develop we need to have a conversation like we're not just gonna like shut it all off so we were like on the same page that if it was something that we wanted to progress further or like stop that we would be open and honest about it yeah so okay and then when did the ghosting happen probably like the week following it wasn't like i don't think when did the ghosting happen? Probably like the week following. It wasn't like, I don't think it was like ghosting. It was just, we would text like a lot and it went from like a lot of texting to like maybe one or two texts like a day just because like we were

both working. So like during the day we would like keep in contact and then I didn't see him for like a week and a half and then um and then things like picked back up like where they were before so that's why it was like kind of weird okay so and that's and that's when he reached back out so to speak right yeah and then your birthday showed up and my birthday was like a week after that yeah gotcha and then where are you at now like what's your what are you trying to figure out so like i said i ran into him about a week ago and i just thought it was going to be like hey how are you call it just like running into someone walk away not going to talk to him and he ended up like so i'm in i'm in

grad school so i saw him in a hallway and then i went and met up with a group project. And about like five minutes later, he like came and found me with my group project and in front of everyone asked me to dinner. And I was like, this is really weird. Like you kind of like put me in a situation where I couldn't say no, like, because it was like in front of all these people that I don't know super well. And I, truthfully, I just didn't want to come off as a bitch and be like no like why would I hang out with you um and so I was like sure like text me we'll figure it out because I just wanted him to like leave at that point um thinking he wouldn't

text me and he did and he's like he has like a whole plan of what he wants to do. And so I'm just trying to figure out, does he not realize that he messed up over summer? And does he not have any common sense about that? Or does he just think nothing was wrong and everything can just go back to normal? So I'm trying to figure out if it's even worth it for me to go or even respond to him. Hi. So that's my question for you. What do you want out of this situation? Like, we don't know what he thinks. So what do you want? Do you want to continue to see him? I think I would like to get it to a point where, because we go to a lot of the same places and like running into each other, like it's definitely going to happen again again so I definitely want it to be a point where like if I do see him it doesn't cause like all this like nervousness around things but like at the week not at the beginning like the first two months I was like kind of hanging out with him

like it was it was really fun and I had a really good time I just feel like like I I think I could be open to like seeing where he wants it to go at this point. Like, cause we, it has been like six months, but first and foremost, I want to just make sure it's like, okay, going forward. If I do run into him again. Gotcha. Um, are you remotely interested in going on this date romantically if if it went perfectly and whatever perfectly means to you i think yes but like i also need to know like what he's even like thinking at this point well like what like what serena's point you might not you might not know no i mean listen you have every right to call him up and say hey can I be honest with you?

I said yes to you in that moment because you kind of put me on the spot. And I would also challenge you to just – it's always good to just try to empathize with their point of view. I'm not saying that makes them right. I find it very helpful when I don't understand people to say, well, if I had to might they be seeing this situation you know just it just helps you just you learn about people uh when you do that so uh because he probably saw it as some grand gesture you know it's like ah finally not doing this i'm gonna go she's gonna be around her friends i'm gonna be like will you go to dinner with me you know like yeah i'm just saying like you don't think so and it was dramatic like yeah you don't think he thought he was making some sort of like big move sure did he bring flowers

well no because i like it was like a 10 minute turnaround from when i ran into him but my point of saying this too is like it whether it was bare minimum, I'm not saying he deserves a medal for what he perceives as a grand gesture. But knowing that he might perceive it as like, hey, I thought I was making a gesture. You don't want to get on the defensive. It's just more like, hey, can I be honest with you? Like, I really like, I thought that was like bold of you to do and like honestly flattering. But at the same time, and then you throw him a compliment that way. It was flattering. You asked me out in front of my friends but i said yes because you also kind of

put me on the spot i know you didn't mean to but like quite honestly i have a lot of questions i'd want to ask you before i'd ever say yes to a date with you that's fair right or option two is to just kind of go on the date. What's one Thursday night? Fuck it. And ask there. Ask there. And just be like, you could sit down and say, hey, well, we're here. Now that we're here, why the fuck am I here?

I don't say it like that. But you know what I'm saying? Be playful. You could be like, I'm just a little confused by like, and you can give them shit. Be like, you literally couldn't show up because you had sunburn. You know, there is a world where you would have showed up for a lot of other things. Let's list all the things you would have showed up for with that same sunburn.

That wasn't my birthday. The Met Gala. The Met Gala. Your favorite sporting event, you know, whatever, you know, I think that if it was your friend who wrote this and who asked this, you would tell them to move on.

That's my gut. True? Right. What would you do if your best friend said all these things? Yeah. So, like, I mean, the thing is, it's like, I don't consider, I'm one of those people that hates my birthday. So, the fact that I had, like, friends in town and we were just going to go do something casual was all I needed.

And I have one friend who's very level-headed and I have never seen her so mad on that night. So I guess you're right. Maybe it's like the roles are reversed. It's really disrespectful. It doesn't matter if you hate your birthday or love your birthday. It's also about making a commitment

and not following through and giving a really shitty excuse and not being apologetic, which it didn't seem like he was. I mean, you could you could say, I don't know a ton about you, but I do know you're inconsiderate with other people's time. I actually think he would cry. But like. You think he would cry? Why? would cry why he okay at one time he told me that um half the time his brain has like he like is really like smart and everything's going through it and then the other half the time it's that

monkey with the clapping like things and that's it is this someone that you are attracted to like want to date someone who says something like that yeah so like is this your man someone who has a monkey clapping in his head for half the time he has a thought? No, no, no, no, no. You know you deserve way better than that. Right. And maybe I was just like putting it off because I was like, oh, like we're both in grad school. Like he has to be smart. What?

I mean. I have a little more sympathy for him. I don't know this guy. I'm just saying he might suck. I, too, have a monkey. The sunburn and then the monkey. I don't know. he might suck i do have a monkey the sunburn and then the monkey i don't know i uh i i guess what i'm saying is i agree with everything serena's saying and i don't i don't uh there's a good

chance he's not your guy i don't think i think there's an opportunity for you here to if nothing else practice communicating yes i think you should yeah either, again, whether it's on a date with him or just reach out to him. Because you did say yes to a date. So I don't think you should ghost the guy. So if you're not going to go out with him, I think you owe him an explanation. And so don't make the same mistake that he made to you. And you could just be like, I'll be honest. I said yes because thanks for doing this.

It was a nice gesture. But I just didn't know what to say at the time. But like, I don't like you really fade. You really when you flaked on me on my birthday, like, yeah, I guess you were sunburned. But like, you didn't reach out to me. You didn't let me know. I had to ask. I was in line. So like, I'm not trying to come at you here, but like, it was just really

inconsiderate of my time. And I don't want to invest people or in my limited time, invest my time into people who are going to be, who've already shown me a willingness to be inconsiderate of mine. So like, why do you want to go on this date with me? Like, are you bored? Like, what's up? And just ask him. About like a month after all of that, like he found me on hinge and he request, like he like sent me a message. After you guys met and you're in this situation. After he goes to the birthday. Right. Yeah. So this is like a month after my birthday,

after I was like, this is not like, I don't know if I was explicit saying like, this isn't going to happen, but I was like, I, I don't know if I was explicit saying like, this isn't going to happen. But I was like, I, I can't do this right now. Like kind of thing. And he found me on hinge and just was like, Hey, um, I was like, I don't want to talk to you on this app. And he's like, Oh no, I get that. Like, and then never reached out and I was mad. So I reached out to him and I was like, can you explain like what you're trying to do here? What is this? And he didn't even know that it was weird that he did that.

And so I have to figure out the best way to explain it to him with being explicit. How old is he? He's 26. Thanksgiving. I feel like guys do that because they want to see if they still have a shot. They want to see if the door is still open that's what right he did it because he was bored

yeah like why not he thought enough enough time had passed and he felt bad and listen when nowadays especially when people feel bad

what do they do they do nothing you know they don't address it they don't own up to it they don't say they're sorry they just like avoid it and then hope that enough time

has passed so that if I run into them no one like brings it up and like we just forgot about the time i like used like uh like not wearing sunscreen as like an excuse not to go to your party or even let you know the more we talk about it the more i'm inclined for you to address this before you go on the date well i also think maybe we should do a dramatic reading of the texts like most recent before he hit you up after running into you and like asked you out because I think you do kind of start to communicate. I understand. I'm sorry we've talked about this too. Nothing is happening. I wasn't thinking when I said hello.

I was just excited to see your familiar face. I appreciate that and for the record I did have fun last time we hung out but I feel you've been using me at your convenience and that doesn't feel great. By the way, I think that was great text. Great text. Great text. I feel like you've been listening to my podcast. It's great. I'm proud. I was unfortunately living a weird schedule slash lifestyle for a bit earlier this summer where I wasn't doing anything.

The concert was one of the few times I got out and I'm happy you joined me. Please don't think I was using you for your convenience. He's also texting this at 5.20 a.m. What is he doing at 5.20 a.m.? He's like, I had a weird lifestyle. When did you send this text? When did I send it? I think I sent it probably like after work hours.

Like not... So the next morning? Or is he out? It's 5.20 a.m. I think it's the next morning. I think he starts work really early. Can we just pause for a second though and talk about the hinge? So when he reached out to you on hinge, he did and then the shit emoji yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't

have opened the hint i would have declined that's why that's a swipe and you asked why question mark and then why again it's like am i just gonna double send it but i think it's so funny why why that's great it's a great great response. Why? But like, why the poop? I don't know. I think he just thought it was funny. Is that an inside joke of your guys'? No. Oh.

I don't know. Hey, poop. What would you do if you walked in and I was like, hey, poop? Like, no. No. And this exchange happened before he saw you and then like asked you on a date before in front of all your friends. Yeah. happened before he saw you and then like asked you on a date before in front of all your friends yeah so that exchange the one you just read was in july and i hadn't talked to him literally since then and when did he ask you on a date a week ago so uh the last week of november and then you

followed up recently i yeah i respond that was the last text i sent or he sent i think i have to you guys but i pretty much much was like, I'm busy. Like right now I'm going on a trip for the holidays. Like, and I left it at that. And he, he asked me if it was uncomfortable seeing him because he thought it was very nice to be able to catch up. And he wants me to show, he wants to show me his work project and take me to drinks and then we can get dinner downtown.

Like he like sent me like a whole itinerary andary and I just didn't really want to deal with it. And I said something like, sounds good, we'll talk after the holidays. It feels like you don't really want to see this guy again. I feel like he's going to say something. He's just going to try to say what I want to hear. But I also feel like I have things i want to say to him but i just don't know if it's like do i even really need to tell him like serena's totally

right i'm the only the only reason i'm like even like giving this a shot because like no crime was committed so to speak so on the off chance he just needs some mild guidance you know and coach him up so to speak it's like but i don't want you to have a project right this isn't your cross to bear sorry time is valuable well i don't think you should like if you genuinely are interested in dating him and you genuinely had a good time and you thought there's a lot of quality that you really liked about him because no one's perfect and you thought there was a lot of quality that you really liked about him because no one's perfect. And you know, 25, 26 year olds, unfortunately these days need to be coached up. And so if you think there's a lot of reasons that you, a lot of things you

liked about him, then I'm fine with you exploring it as long as you can communicate your frustrations. If you are just frustrated that he ditched you and want to have some face time so you can really let him know how you feel and just get it out it might not be worth your time i think the happy medium is to have a conversation with him on the phone and just say kind of like a follow-up to this brief text messaging message that you said, hey, I just felt like you used, because it like used you, you almost like accused him of too much there because like used, that sounds so Machiavellian. Like he had this like, I'm going to use this person. Nah, he was like bored and convenient. He did have fun with you. That's not

a lie because that's his response. Like, well, I mean, I had fun with you. How could I have used you? The crime is he was inconsiderate and really only prioritized you when it was convenient for him but i think she does follow up the used by at your convenience yeah but i i guarantee you he he only responded to the accusation of being used so he didn't even hear that you know and so it's it's important to really focus on what it is that you are frustrated by and not throw out something that he is a greater accusation that he feels more defensive about and then focuses on that. And then you're like, wait, I mean, he apologized for like, not using me, but you know what I'm saying? So I really think this is more of an exercise for you

to like practice communication than anything. And if his answers make total sense, because you've already said to me he's not really good at answering these types of questions. So I don't think he's going to say something that you really want to hear unless he actually means it for the most part, as long as you ask the right questions. Right. So you're saying I should be should be like as straightforward as possible. Like with what? I would call them up and say, Hey, listen, you really caught me off guard when you asked me out.

And if I'm being honest, like I said, yes, because you're around my friends. I've already told you, I've really had a good time when you hung out, but you really upset me when you flaked on me on my birthday and I had to reach out and I had to ask if you're coming and like, whatever, if you had sunburn, but like people like find a way to prioritize the people they want to prioritize and you didn't and that's fine. So I'm just confused as to why you want to like redo this all over again, because I'm genuinely just looking for someone who communicates, who shows up when they say they're going to show up and wants to prioritize someone in their life. And I'm getting the vibe from you that you don't and you're not ready. And as much as it sounds like things are going great,

and I'm glad they are, I'm not interested in catching up. Yeah. I think that's good. Because I think if I put it in a way that it's like, you're just wasting your, my time isn't right. But I think the priority thing, like that would make kind of be like a wake up call to him to be like, Oh, like this is actually like,

I think for him, I think for you to say yes to a date, he needs to show you that he can be vulnerable on that phone call. He needs to be able to say, no, actually, I fucked up. I'm sorry. I really like you, and I want a second chance. I don't deserve to show you that because I really think we have something there. And if it's not that, then I don't think you should go on the date.

If it's like, what's the big deal? It's just cool. Or if he tries to downplay things, he needs to just hear you out, accept it, apologize, and then ask for an opportunity to show you that he should get a second chance. And if he tries to keep it cash or downplay,

you're just like, listen, I think you're great, but maybe we shouldn't go out. I agree. Going on a date is a motherfucking privilege with you. Seriously. Like you are the prize. So he needs to act like it. I definitely think you should talk to him before you go on a date.

Your time is very valuable. That's what I would do. You should bring him some sunscreen. His answer should make sense. And he should make you feel like he really wants a second chance and he there should be an i'm sorry for that somewhere without a butt right i'm sorry but you did that what's the big deal i didn't do that just like yeah i could have been more considerate and i want to show you that i'm very serious about this yeah i think definitely a phone

call before would also like calm my nerves if did end up going, like having a real conversation and not just like, what is this? I also genuinely want you to think about whether, you know, the conversation, the date happens or not. Like, what do you really like? Do you actually like this guy? I'm not saying that you have to know right now, but a lot of the language that you used to describe him, the things he did and how he scattered Ray text weird monkey you know i don't know if you even like him that much honestly so i think you should ask yourself right is it more about feeling rejected or is it about you genuinely wanting to get to know him more right just something to keep in mind to help you with that like figure out what you do like like what do you like about him literally write it down i always have a list

someone asked me that like when i was dating him it was like i guess a lot of dating hanging out with him um it was like what were three things you like about him and i could answer it and so like i felt like that was a good sign and then totally so but now i have to see if those are still like high enough to yeah and if the list keeps growing hopefully listen you just don't know how serious or capable he is and giving you the things that you want in a relationship

because up to this point he is showing you that he's more and kind of in a fuck boy era I'm more focused on school that's the priority I'm going to date

when it's convenient I'm going to show up when it's convenient and everyone else who's kind of in my peripheral is going to like suffer for that that's the energy

he's giving off. Yeah. And then he wants someone to like hear like when he wants to brag about us to compliment, like he wants to catch up with people. It's like, right. Yeah.

So, all right. Keep us posted. We're dying to find out what, uh, yes, good luck. Good luck.

All right. Thank you. All right. Take care. Serena, you have, you have some big news for yourself personally. Yes. You were part of the NBC universal family now. Yes, I care. Serena, you have some big news for yourself personally. Yes.

You are part of the NBC Universal family now. Yes, I am. What does that mean? Basically, they picked 11 creators to be a part of their creator accelerator program. So we are essentially 11 amazing creators. They're super diverse in terms of their voices and the kind of content they create. And they're giving us an opportunity to develop a show with execs at NBC. Your own show or together? own show separately yeah to develop a show with mbc take us through the relay process and if all goes well we'll have it on peacock streaming amazing yes

where are you in this process i'm i haven't even pitched the concept yet i'm working on the deck right now nice scripted unscript Scripted, unscripted? It is unscripted. It's a mix. It's a hybrid. Half hour, hour? Even shorter. Yeah.

Quick. Yes. It's going to be like under half an hour. I feel like that's good. Isn't White Lotus only, is White Lotus an hour, 45 minutes? It's like in the 45, 15 minutes. You know, with this TikTok generation, we just got to keep it tight. But it's really exciting.

I think it's cool to see how people are taking the content that we make really seriously and giving us an opportunity to kind of level up beyond just our phones. That's awesome. I can't wait to find you on Peacock. Yeah, and you also have to come to my comedy show. I'm going on tour. It's called Do It For The Pot.

And it's going to be in March. And I think I'm also going to be coming to LA as well. Great. We'll be there. And also, where can people follow you? Find you? Buy your game? Serena Kerrigan and LetsFuckingDate.com And you better play all three and let me know. I'm not following. No, he's following. I'm not following Serena Kerrigan.

But this is really great. I'm a huge fan of yours. I have been for a while. Likewise. Thank you for coming. It's been a long time coming. We are so happy to have you. It's been fun. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatcastme.com.

Cast with a K. If you are tuning in for the first time to hear your gal, Serena, we do some great things throughout the week. Our Ask Nick Mondays, which is very similar to what you just saw on Texting Office Hours. People's relationship stories. We give advice, opinions, and thoughts. And then on

Tuesday right now, our freestyle episodes, which is a lot more pop culture and things like that. Yesterday, we had Girl Boss Town on our show, also known as Robin. Girl Boss Town. PR genius. PR genius. So check that out. And yeah, we're here three days a week. So send in those questions. We're still looking for two people stuck in a situation ship who want to come on together.

Whoa. And hash it out. Hard to find. It's hard to find. Still the mediations, we'll do those. You can be all anonymous. So the juicier, the better. Send in those stories. We'd love to hear it from you. And any final thoughts, Ser if it's not a fuck yes it's a fuck now okay live by that that's what i want to tell that girl you're great thank you so much seriously bye everybody