The Viall Files - E514 Freestyle with Susie Evans Plus PCA Drama

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Freestyle Edition! Today we are joined by Bachelor Nation’s Susie Evans! First, we start things off with some Bachelor Tea, diving into Nick and Johnny hanging out at the People’s Choice Awards, Gabby not outright shutting down her flirtatiousness with Vinny Guadagnino, why Nick thinks Peter and Kelley keeping their relationship more private is the right move, filming your wedding, and Tia Booth giving birth to her baby boy. We also check-in with Susie, getting updates on how she’s been since her breakup with Clayton. We ask if she’s been getting any DMs, her becoming in tune with relationship advice, being there for an ex after a breakup, clearly communicating your expectations, and breaking down Susie’s past boyfriends and how it’s influenced her current approach to dating. We also talk about Clayton’s concern that the producers would make Susie the Bachelorette, learning who to trust at the end of the show, what she’s looking for in a future partner, finding balance and aligning ambitions within relationships, how to find the person who can be your cheerleader in the right kind of way, and money versus passion. We also talk about Katie Holmes’ throwback denim and dress outfit, and also talk about people using AI to create profile pictures. We then bring on our Texting Office Hours caller who wonders how to navigate communicating expectations after having to get an emergency contraceptive from a hook-up. Feeling like she was the only one taking it seriously, our caller wonders how to communicate how she’s feeling to her situationship.  “You fan-zoned yourself.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Babbel: Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to http://www.Babbel.com/viall. Babbel—Language for life. Everlywell: The gift of health has never been so easy to share than it is this holiday. For listeners of the show, Everlywell is offering a discount of 20% off an at-home lab test at http://www.EverlyWell.com/viall. Uncommon Goods: To get 15% off your next gift, go to http://www.UncommonGoods.com/VIALL. Don’t miss out on this limited time offer! Uncommon Goods. We’re all out of the ordinary.  Wondery: Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @susiecevans  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Vile Files Freestyle Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda, and our special guest of the vile files freestyle edition i'm your host nick joined by ali and amanda and our special guest of the day suzy evans how are you for a moment there i was like suzy evans yeah i never i always forget people's last names in this world me too oh i know actually i have such a fear of like forgetting everyone's name always like i might know that person well, but then I get intimidated as soon as I introduce them to someone else. Are you worse with names or faces? People say they're good at faces and bad with names.

I'm bad at both. I was going to say I'm bad at both, but I just pretend to know everybody pretty much always. Yeah. Good to see you again. Yeah. Good to see you. Yes. Big fan of that one. Yeah. I recently picked it up. Yeah. Good to see you. Yes. Big fan of that one.

Yeah. I recently picked it up. I don't know. Nice. It's been a problem for me. Yeah. Or if you just leave it at good to see you or good to see you, you know, it's like it doesn't have to be again.

It's just good to see you. It might be though. It's good to see you. It's good to see you. It's good to see you. Yeah. Well, it's good to see you all. Yeah.

I feel like the best best the only solution to that is like if you have another friend who you can introduce to everyone be like just to verify the names right

there's always that hey I forgot who they are but they know me can you introduce yourself exactly I have that conversation before I get out of the car like hey I need you

to be assertive tonight like a double worst Prada situation where they're like whispering names into her ear yes exactly I think people will

figure it out with me though. Nick's always bringing people we don't know and they're always introducing themselves to us. Exactly. Nick's just be like, oh yeah, sure, for sure. If I'm 95% sure I know someone's name, that 5% is terrifying to me. It is so high stakes to fuck up a name. Yeah, even if I'm 99% sure, it's that 1% that really psychs me out. 100%.

I feel like I'll never live it down. It's like in my head, it's like this, like if you mess up someone's name, that will be like a permanent tarnish. Like when I was like, oh, and Susie Irvine joins us? Like I almost decided to like just mix it up because I wasn't like 100% sure. Oh, that's great. I love that. Well, it's good to be with you. I feel like we have some. Oh, that's great. I love that. Well, it's good to be with you.

I feel like we have some catching up to do. Okay. Before we do that, should we do some Bachelor Tea? Absolutely. I feel like it's a longer list this week. Well, you're on my list, and I always like when you're on my list because I can get it from the source. Great. Oh.

Can you walk me through the People's Choice Awards, you and Johnny, not only did you sit at the same table, you were in a trailer together. We had some selfies. We were in a trailer together. It was delightful. Walk me through this. Yeah, I hosted the red carpet for E! and I saw Johnny coming down the carpet. I said hi to him and he gave

me an aww. I was like, what's up Johnny? And got to see him. I had met him before. So it was the second time I've seen him. And then, um, I had to finish up. Nally went in and she's like, Johnny's at our table. I was like, great. Love it. Love that. Um, and then, uh, and Ryan Reynolds was the people's Choice Icon recipient of the awards, which was a big deal for me. I've always been a huge fan of his throughout my life famous and you find them to be like iconic iconic you know you become a fan of them maybe it's your own narcissism i don't know right don't you like i feel like everyone's like i love it like favorite celebrity is someone they some person told you you look like probably susie do you get is there

one that you consistently get um well since since coming into this world, Hannah Brown. For sure. But previously, when I used to have dark hair, I would get Mila Kunis. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes I would get Keira Knightley, too. Big Bachelor fan. Keira Knightley.

I see more Keira Knightley than Mila Kunis. Oh, okay. I see both. I see Mila in the forehead. In the forehead. In the forehead. And see, I'm flattered. That's a good forehead.

And I love both of them. So it probably is the nicest in me. Allie's like, fuck fuck I wish I had that 100% 100% no Allie has a wonderful forehead but she has this

we need to put that up we need to frame that I think in the yeah where's my phone I have to show Susie my forehead prominently featured

yeah in our new space we need to I think honestly should we like frame it like frame bridge frame bridge

but it's just my forehead I'll try to find an equally embarrassing photo of me there won't be one but this is just alright ready Susie I'm ready

oh my gosh it's Nick's favorite photo I actually do love it aliens really exist? Shut up. There she is. Wait, I'm actually shocked. You've grown into a beautiful woman, Allie.

Thank you. Thank you very much. It's always best that it gets better as you age. You know what I mean? Well, it couldn't get any bigger. So we had to go in a different direction. It's great looking back now. And like, it doesn't matter.

Well, my favorite part about this, it's like when I started showing this to people and people would freak out. My mom's perspective is, well, yeah, because you redid your hair at school. Like I had your hair perfect and you messed with the barrette. And I was like, no one's looking at the barrette. No one has an ugly baby. No one is looking at the barrette. The parents are biased.

Yeah. It's not about the hair. It's all about the face. Anyway, so I was excited to see Ryan Reynolds. And turned out he was sitting right in front of us, like two feet away, which was just kind of cool. So, yeah, I sat down and I talked to Johnny. I don't know. It was all fine.

Like, I didn't really – it wasn't like a big deal. There was never a feud. And then we were just kind of – don't know i i came in in the middle of the show the show had not the middle of the show the show i just started and then uh johnny had mentioned that you know his dms are kind of crazy right now and he had a bunch of people he's like it's like i have to people like want me to come on your podcast other people tell me not to do it and i said well as a friend i don't think you should come on but i'd love to have you come on yeah uh you're welcome anytime

i yeah i just said like you've already done two you've already done two unless you have something new to say and like you know i just i think it's time for everyone to heal it and move on. And so we watched the rest of the show. And Johnny went to the bathroom. And then Natalie was just like, you've got to go ask Ryan for a photo in between commercials. Other people were coming up. I didn't want to bother him because I was just like, I'm trying to be his best friend. So once I asked to take a photo with him. Then you're fan material.

I'm a fan. I'm like a total fan. And I was just like, I don't know. You fan zone yourself. I haven a fan. I'm like a total fan. And I was just like, I don't know. You fan zone yourself. I haven't become his best friend yet. So like maybe I should just get the photo.

Susie, you should trademark fan zone. Fan zone. His friend zone is for real. Fan zone is for real. That's a good, that's a good, yeah.

I wanted to become, I wanted a friend zone and I fan zoned myself according to Susie. Well done, Susie. But you got the photo. I did get the photo. There you go.

He was very gracious. Chris Olson encouraged me. Chris Olson, friend of show. He went up, asked Ryan for a photo. Ryan was very nice. And then I went up, asked him,

and I was very awkward. And I was like, do I tell him the whole Ryan Reynolds Walmart version? So he stood up and I was like, hey, I him the whole Ryan Reynolds Walmart version? So he stood up and I was like, hey, I'm a big fan. I'm sorry for bothering you. And he's like, what's your name?

He was a pro. Love it. And I immediately was like, fuck, I'm such a fan right now. But then you also low-key were like, oh, but he has my name. Yeah, but it's like, it's Nick. Oh, yeah, he's best friends. We are friends now. We are friends.

And then I gave him, and I felt real dumb doing it. And I was just like, a while back I was a bachelor and people used to call me the Walmart Ryan Reynolds. And he laughed and he goes, well, Walmart's like a reputable brand. And I was like, yeah. What a gem. Actually, it is. Have you watched his special about the Wrexham soccer team that he bought and like now not yet i haven't seen it oh my goodness so we took a couple selfies and then johnny came back i was like yeah i just got a i just got a photo with uh ryan he's like i'm so fucking jealous i'm

like just go i'm like and that so then i encouraged johnny to go do the same thing i did the next commercial break i'm like it's i know he's like i felt the same thing I did the next commercial break. I'm like, it's, I know he's like, I felt the same way you did. It's super awkward. Just go. He's super nice. And Johnny's, uh,

his camera wasn't working. So he used Natalie's phone to take the selfie with Ryan. And then, uh, and then there was some after party. Yeah, there was an after party. And because I worked the event,

I had like a car service waiting for me so i'm like johnny do you know how you're gonna get there he's like no i'm like we'll just ride with us nice so the three of us went there and we went back to my trailer that's when we took like a little trio the selfie yeah and we were having some fun and uh then i posted it and um the world went wild internet exploded and Johnny's like and then we got in the car and I'm like

Johnny you gotta comment something good well and then Natalie commented still team Victoria while we were in the car with Johnny

and then I told Johnny he has to comment something good and then he's like then he commented I'm still not doing your podcast and then I replied chicken shit we're all in the car while this is happening together Johnny has to comment something good. And then he's like, then he commented, I'm still not doing your podcast.

Oh, wow. And then I replied, chicken shit. We're all in the car while this is happening. I love it. I really wanted, what I really wanted to comment was,

like, this is all fake, you know, just to fuck with people. Yeah. Because I mean, in all seriousness, like, it's just not that serious.

Yeah. You know, I understand, obviously, there was definitely some hurt feelings between victoria and johnny but i i think people forget that like people can still be friends and move on and and still like be cool and i think johnny from what i can tell seems like a really nice guy you know whatever happened i he i'm sure he has his regrets and um but he seems like an all right guy.

We had a really fun night. Wells and Sarah were there. Got to see them. Showed off their rings on the little slow-mo cam. Oh, I didn't see that. How did it look? It was a lot of fun. I don't think Johnny is going to be coming on the podcast anytime soon.

Maybe in the future. Maybe he'll be back on the beach. Yeah, I don't think Johnny's going to be coming on the podcast anytime soon. Maybe in the future, you know, maybe he'll be back on the beach. Yeah. I don't know. I thought it was, uh, I'm glad it was at my, my table.

I don't, I don't. Were there other, like who else is at your table? Gabby and Rachel were on the table right next to us. Okay. So they keep you guys all kind of together. Yeah.

I think that's usually the case. So like a batch of people like go here. Yeah. It's like a wedding. Yeah. Who does the seating chart? It's very So like a batch of people. Go here. Yeah, it's like a wedding. Yeah. Who does the seating chart? It's very much like a wedding seating chart for sure.

You're like, oh, they put us with each other. With people that we can have a conversation with easily. Yeah. So it was nice. Speaking of Gabby and Rachel, have you been seeing the Gabby and Vinny flirtatious? They've been doing flirty comments back and forth. And Gabby's not shutting it down per se, but it could all be in good fun.

We interviewed them on the red carpet. I think it's a possibility. She said, I think it's a possibility. We'll have to wait and see. Usually, usually that means it's all fake. It's like the Hannah and Tyler. Who else did something like, oh, Rachel and Avon kind of did that a little bit. Who knows? Could be wrong. But usually it's like if you don't want to shut down a rumor, but you don't want to confirm it, it's because you like the attention it's bringing you.

And that's not a criticism. I'm not criticizing Gabby at all. It's just, you know. I did the, Rachel Bilson and I did that a while back. We were just friends. Like a full PR thing? No, we were just friends. We were talking about doing some work together on a podcast.

Yeah. And so we were commenting on each other's Instagrams. It was a bit flirtatious back when, this was a long back, but like nothing was going on. Right. And we just let it, we just let people create the story. We didn't really do anything other than like have like a couple responses back on the old Instagram. And then we're like cryptic and vague when people ask us about it.

Of course. And then eventually it was just like, oh, we're just good friends. Yeah. I mean, actually, I think when I got asked about it, I just said we were good friends. But my guess is there's not much there. Yeah. And I feel like with her not shutting it down, I mean, he's a good looking guy. So who knows?

You never know. Like they could, it could be a thing. It could happen down the road. But I kind of agree. I think that they're probably good friends and they probably have flirty, like fun conversations and a relationship in general. So it's just like, oh, this is kind of like a funny thing. Plus I, I mean, Gabby is so funny that it's like, she's, she probably gets a kick out of it. Like in general. She also did an interview. I think it was, yeah, it was at the People's Choice with Laverne Cox was interviewing and she was saying like, oh, the DMs are open. They're not as full as I'd like them to be. Like she's still encouraging people to reach out and ask her out. And I don't think she'd be doing that if she was in a.

Totally. Exactly. Like Vinny might be a little. Yeah. Pressed about it. Annoyed. Sends her the clip. Excuse me. I thought. Yeah, by the way.

Shut your DMs. censor the cliff excuse me yeah by the way shut your dms yeah that's interesting to think about though like when the optimal amount of fame slash attention is for dms because i'm sure you reach a point where people like assume there's too like over saturation of the market they're like oh everybody's dming this person we're like it's kind of like it goes off of like that approachable hot concept but for dms where it's like someone who's just famous enough that you're like but maybe they're not getting a ton. And like, maybe I'm like a little bit ahead of the ball on this one.

Yeah. But with Gabby, I'm sure it's like bachelorette. Everybody just like assumes. And because everyone's assuming that, that she, her DMs are like full. They don't send the message.

I see. Yeah. I don't know if, or your DMs ever just spilling over. No. I don't think our DMs are all spilling over? No. I don't think our DMs are all that full. Yeah. Don't worry, Susie.

Yeah, please do. Hey, yo. Especially after the breakup, I was like, wow, it's real dry in here. Okay. Like. No shoulder to cry on. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, okay, I see you guys are being very patient.

Respectful. Very respectful. Oh, I appreciate it. Letting you mourn. Respectful. Very respectful. Oh, I appreciate it. Letting you mourn. Yeah. Guten Morgen. Ich habe Durst. Ich trinke Wasser.

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No, I definitely wasn't. And actually, i think it was like the appropriate amount of time that people did kind of wait to slide in but i think that was something that clayton and i like we were very open about it all but we were like we talked about it and he was like i just know people are gonna like slide in immediately and i was like they really didn't they did eventually some some did but you know any any know. Any notable slides? I mean, not that I'm going to say, but, I mean, some lovely people for sure. But I've definitely been, like, very cautious about all of it pretty much. Also, like, nobody's in my area. I'm in Virginia still. So, I think once I'm out here, like, I don't want anyone to tempt me to stay in Virginia.

It's how I feel. You know, I don't want to like meet somebody and be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't. Like, not that I would at this point. Like I'm coming out here. But yeah. Did you have any dates while you've been out here? No, not a date. I haven't been on a date yet.

No dates. Yeah. What have you been on? Uh, you know, I've been on what have you been on uh you know i've been on i've been on i don't know what you would i mean i hang i've like spent time with people you know one-on-one or in a group mostly mostly group like pretty much entire actually entirely group i've not spent one-on-one time with somebody. At any point, did you wake up having to wear the same clothes you went to bed with? Yes.

I did, but actually not what you would think. Yeah, I did that on Saturday and I was sleeping by myself. I was like, hold on. I actually, Elise from several seasons back saved me from a weird situation. And so we actually went to her hotel room, put on robes and ordered food. So then I did have to put my dress back on from the night before. But yeah, not what you would think, I guess. But she really like swooped in and saved the day for me. Not gonna lie. Oh my gosh. I'm sweating already. I just like agreed to stay out, but like didn't really have plans. But then I realized I didn't actually want to like end up staying out with, you know, I was like, can I crash at yours? But yeah, I went back with Elise and we got in robes and had food

and we did drink a little bit more too. Love it. Yeah. Girl time. Girl talk. It was fun. All about nights and with a nightcap. Yes, exactly. It was a good time. Last question for you. Would Nick and Natalie have a filmed wedding? I don't see that in our cards, said Nick. I'm always fascinated by the content world and the opportunities out there, so you'd never know. But I don't think that's something we're prioritizing or even talking about to be honest

I'm always fascinated by the content world I got dragged to a well no I went to a Revolve event with Natalie lovely event lovely everyone was there it seemed like were they I don't know we got there late yeah there was there was like someone from I think they were from me and they asked me if i want to do an interview i was like i guess it was an exclusive i got flagged it said exclusive that's why i clicked on it and it was like uh what are you doing for the holidays and blah blah blah and then she like out of nowhere lovely woman what's her name she's kidding and Yeah, she's like, I don't know her.

She's like, do you think you and Natalie would ever have a filmed wedding? I hate questions like that because I was like, no. And then I think I said, no one would ask. Is that in there? Because I definitely said that. I'll pull it up. They cut that part. Let me find the exclusive.

I was like, I don't think anyone would ask. But, you know. And then while I was interviewing, i was like i mean if someone wanted to do it yeah it's like sure well we have a literal expert on wedding i don't know if anyone would i could send you a link to my website yeah i don't know nick exclusively told e-news i don't know if anyone would ask to do it but as long as people I love are there, that's all I really care about. What's wrong with that? I love reading articles about you.

Why? I don't know. It's funny. It's ironic. I like hearing quotes when I can hear it in your own voice and it's just really funny. Does it seem as dumb to you as it does to me? It's just kind of a random question because you're not even engaged.

I know. I think it was a slow night when yeah what was i i guess like so is the idea because i feel like a lot of people do like want a lot of footage from their wedding and like not only having photographers but like videographers is a big thing now so in terms of like what level of that's different than having it like live stream for the americas it would be live? I thought it was like a special. Not live, but like, yeah. That would be great. First of all, would it be live? It's not happening.

Can I live stream your wedding? It's whatever you want it to be. You could go live on Instagram. YouTube live and it's just your wedding. TikTok live, finally. When was the last Bachelor wedding? Was it Carly and Evans? Yeah, because JoJo jordan didn't film

yeah i mean they did we haven't seen it but like i'm talking about like bachelor i watched sean and katherine's yeah that was like a big like i did too that was like yeah like that i remember uh watching it and that was way before my bachelor days interesting yeah i i think the last one i don't this is terrible that i don't know who it was, but it was the one that was on Paradise, right? Like a couple years ago. Carly and Evan. Is that who it was? That was the last one?

I think that was the last one. The last filmed one? Because we didn't see anything from Ashley and Jared. Again, that wasn't a bachelor. I know. I'm just trying to think of other couples

that got married. It probably was. Like that's when they filmed. I mean, all weddings have some sort of Susie there.

All weddings have a Sus of Susie there. All weddings have a Susie. They should be so lucky. Yeah, but I think Carlene Evans was the last. I don't think they're really doing those anymore. I feel like people would watch. People keep watching The Bachelor. I don't know.

I think, yeah, I don't know. I have a question. As someone who's probably witnessed like a disproportionate number of weddings. Yeah. I'm sure they're inherently special because it is such a like celebratory day for the people involved. But is there anything that you've noticed that has like really wowed you despite having witnessed like so many of these events? Like anything that truly like kind of knocked your socks off? As far as like event wise at a wedding? Like, yeah.

Or just like in general, I would say, I mean, honestly, like my favorite thing is when you just have a couple and you're like, oh, my gosh, like I've never had a couple where I'm like, oh, this isn't going to work. But, you know, when you have a couple and you're like, wow, this is like what people strive for. I just think and I know like your wedding day is supposed to be like the happiest day. So, of course, like you're enjoying it or whatever, but like it can truly be very like stressful for everybody. And if the bride and the groom, like if you see them just kind of like lean on each other through it, it's like, yeah, I think that's like very admirable. And I think that's, those have been the times that have been like, okay, like this exists, like this is

out there for me. I just have to like find that, you know? So I would say that's been like the thing that really wows me is when you meet those couples and you're like, oh, like I aspire to have this. If you are trying to find that unique gift for that quirky friend or loved one in your life, think of Uncommon Goods. Uncommon Goods is your secret weapon. Uncommon Goods is here to make your holiday shopping stress-free by scouring the globe for the most remarkable and truly unique gifts for everyone on your list. wine glasses with stems and like you can put your snacks on it for someone's patio. Things like that where if you have a friend that you go and drink wine with in the summertime, like it makes people think that you really went out of your way to find something that's so specific and unique to them, but also stuff that they'll use. For example, a beard trimming sink cleaner. You know that this is a product you need if you live with someone who shaves.

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That's intriguing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've heard us talk about Wondery's Even the Rich before and this time they got Whitney Houston

on the lineup. That is going to be an episode you are not going to want to miss. I mean, what a beautiful and brilliant woman with a very tragic story.

Truly. Even the Rich is a podcast from Wondery that tells you the jaw-dropping stories from the tumultuous lives of the world's elite, from the greatest family dynasties to pop culture superstars. The newest season explores how Whitney Houston seemingly had it all. She really did. Yeah, she crushed it on the bodyguard. She was stunning in her voice, angelic, described as one in a generation talent. Despite this, she felt trapped between worlds. She meant something different to every person, every fan. As the pressure mounted, drugs became her only respite. Even the Rich chronicles Whitney's rise to pop prominence

and her infamous fall from grace, revealing the lesser known stories behind Whitney's demise. Follow Even the Rich wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Last thing of Bachelor Tea, Peter and Kelly give their first kind of interview back together. We know that they've reunited. Peter said that we're keeping it a little bit more private this time because we didn't have the luxury the first time.

And Kelly said that she's happy. We get along. We connect. I think coming off the show, you have to go through a lot of stuff that puts a lot more pressure on you. And this time around, it's a lot more relaxed. So it's easier. Does this like prove that breaking up and getting back together is effective? Or is that just a Bachelor thing where, I don't know.

People get back together all the time. I just feel like we advise people to like sure there's exceptions to every rule yeah okay it's definitely stigmatized i feel like to get back together with an ex right yeah i mean i definitely say things really have to change for it to be worth it yeah we've stigmatized it here for sure we definitely i think it's a terrible idea yeah Yeah. That said, I do think Peter and Kelly fit for me. Not that they do. What about them fits for you? I don't know. They just seem like they, I know nothing about their relationship and how they get along

or how they fight or how they console each other or communicate, but they seem like a good fit from where I sit, I suppose. No, they're doing well. I am, again, I still want to know, because their breakup was a bit ugly publicly. And I want to know how they reconciled that before they got back together. I want to know what changed after Kelly said

that she didn't look up to him. And she was saying the men in her life, she likes to look up to. She wants a partner to push herself, that she didn't look up to him and like he like she was saying the men in her life she likes to look up to she wants a partner to push herself and peter didn't do that so what's changed yeah no these are great questions right i would want to please come on the book but they but they do they they are they're a handsome couple they are you know and i mean i don't know peter or ke but I will say, having gone through such a unique experience coming from The Bachelor world, you grow a lot. So it's very possible that all of that attributed to a lot of growth for both of them. And so maybe at that time, she was like, yeah, he's not somebody I look up to. He doesn't have the experience or the knowledge or whatever it is that she was looking for. But maybe he does now. Like, I know them but i mean you can say something and it can be true but it can also change and so maybe she does admire him it seems like they're she's attributing the stresses of the show to their breakup yeah oh really because she said i think coming off the show you have to go through

a lot of stuff that puts a lot of more pressure on you and this time around it's a lot more relaxed so it's easier yeah maybe there was like outside pressure that we. And this time around, it's a lot more relaxed. So it's easier. Yeah, maybe there was like outside pressure that we don't know about for it to look a certain way. And maybe he like acted on it. And that's not really admirable, you know. Definitely. But we don't know. But they do look good.

Yeah. So long as they're happy. Yeah. We're happy. Yeah. Great. Cheers. And Tia's pregnant?

No, Tia gave birth. Oh. Tia had a boy right baby boy what's the name well she posted so she posted actually which i thought was kind of cute because it was just audio of like the room and like people talking and there was no like photos of him or a video of him and it was just the audio which i thought was kind of a nice thing sometimes i'm like i don't want a camera in my face right after I give birth. But Tatum Booth Mock. Born on December 6th

at 6.13 in the morning. Best day of our lives. Tatum. Tatum. I can't wait for this generation of kids to be grandparents. It wasn't Tia making out with Colton, was it? That wasn't her best day of her life? I guess not. But like, do you know what I mean? Like Grandpa Tatum, that rocks.

Grandpa Tatum, that's so cute like I cannot wait for this generation of like Ashlyn Grandma Ashlyn that's awesome no one will care in fact I think it's going to be opposite they'll we'll make fun of it like we make fun of the word Dorothy yeah

like oh is Barb coming out no but there's going to be a renaissance I bet I bet. It will be like Walter will be in. For sure. Maybe Walt. Walter's not a bad name. That's my grandfather's name.

I like Walt. But what do you do when Walt's like 18 months old? Oh, I know. Well, my name is Susan. Can you imagine a Susan baby? Susan. She came out with glasses on. And a nightie charging late fees at the library literally

yeah but you grow into it i mean i still haven't grown into susan yet but do you think you'll ever like just go no i feel like you'll be grandma suzy yeah or grandma sue maybe yeah grandma sue grandma sue suzy feels really like you found a nickname that is like perfect for like the vibe and energy. It's on brand. It's like a little quirky, but also just like, I don't know, not too basic, but also kind of like old school. I don't know. It's like a weird, it's weird. It makes sense when you meet me, I think.

I hope. What's new with you, Susie? I feel like a lot is new. I'm moving to LA in a month. I started a blog. My video business is mostly travel slash destination. What's your blog about? It's lifestyle.

There's a little bit of fashion. Relationship stuff seems to do really well, and I enjoy the relationship stuff. It's fun. We read a quote from it the other week for our Bachelor Tea. Oh, I was on the Bachelor Tea? Yes. I missed that one.

What was it? Oh, I can pull it up. Let's find my files. You seem to be really into kind of relationship kind of conversations. In a way, I feel like a lot of your Bachelor peers aren't. a lot of your bachelor peers aren't you know like you seem like as as reflective as anyone on your own choices and relations and dating is that accurate i feel like i mean just a little bit i've gotten to know you seem pretty like into you know uh reading up on that and following or talking about it and just little things i've seen about, again, like dating and relationships and your choices and how those play a role and your willingness to talk about that.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. I think I want to know and understand more. I always found even just like psychology interesting because I'm like, I want to understand why I make these decisions or why these decisions make me feel this way. I want to understand why I make these decisions or why these decisions make me feel this way. Like I want to understand what's happening. And I think that helps you like be a better person, be a better partner. So I feel like I am always, and I have always, even before coming on to The Bachelor, like just enjoyed researching and understanding like why we do things or why we feel things. And then like understanding that you have choices it's not just like oh i feel this way so this is how it is like you have a choice in everything that you do and

if you understand how those choices make you feel it allows you to like move forward in a better way yeah what's something from your past last relationship specifically that that relationship helped you grow and then what's something from that relationship that you don't mind saying goodbye to? I think Clayton and I both grew up, like we had to develop a lot of patience with each other because we were very different people. What were some of your differences?

I think we had very different expectations of a relationship. And that's like probably the thing that I'm happy to like close the chapter. It's like, I think that my expectations in a partner were different than what his expectations were to like be a partner and vice versa. Like, I think I can laugh about it now. We actually recently spoke and we had a great funny conversation and it was all good. So I feel like I can laugh through a lot of

the pain now where I might've been like a little bit more reserved to share. But like we did have a conversation once where it was like my expectations were too high. And I was like, no, my expectations are what they are. Like my standards are what they are. You can rise to meet them or I'll find somebody that will, you know, like. This was a conversation you and him had back in the day. Yes, like back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had an expectation. He was like, seems a little high.

Yeah. And. What was that expectation? Well, I think it was like in general, like my expectations, like my standards in a relationship or something like that. Like that was, I like brought something to him and it was like, oh, I think your standards are a little too high. Like you're expecting a little too much.

And I was like, I don't, I don't think that I am going to lower my expectations and my standards. I'm going to communicate my needs and you could come along if you want to. And like, I laugh, I'm laughing through it because I realized at the time when I said it, I probably, it probably did sound sassy because I remember saying like, you can rise to meet my standards or I'll find somebody who wants to and I know it probably sounded in the moment I was like it probably sounded sassy because it was a heated conversation well it's that maybe that second part that was probably exactly the the threat at the end yeah low-key I might have been a little threatening Clayton if you're listening I'm

sorry that was a little bit toxic of me. I mean, you know, I think we love talking about this stuff because how we communicate with our partners is not easy, especially in the heat of the moment. Of course. It is very nuanced. And yeah, I think, especially here on the show, we talk about community expectations all the time. So like, hey, I want this. I need you to do this. This is what I expect. This is what I want. You know, I guess it's implied that, you know,

hey, I'm not going to lower my expectations. You probably could have done without the, or I'll find someone else. I will say that was like, you know, a few times we had had that conversation about me having like high of standards. And I was like, well, they're my standards. I'm just communicating. And to me, I was like, I'm communicating.

But also, it's ingrained in us to do that. It's like our mothers are the ones saying, keep your standard high. I don't know. I feel like that's a common thing. Women to women, friends to friends are always like, don't lower your standards. The bar's on the floor. The bar's in hell. People say the bar's in hell. my old roommate did literally my former roommate was so funny she's like the bar is in hell like it's so funny well

i i have said maybe i'm not your guy you know yeah oh so or some version of that where it's just like where you know i don't know if i was communicating the expectation or they were but i remember being like i'm not like i'm not going to meet that expectation because i don't agree with that expectation i don't i don't know what it was but i know i have said a few different relationships like i don't know maybe i'm just not your guy you know like i think that's totally fair and i I think I probably, and that's how I meant it. And I do mean it. It's like, I think that everyone can have standards. And I think his expectation of me as well. It's like, he probably wanted something different. And I think we're both happier now. Like ultimately we're both in a better place that now that we're separate.

And so I think we just wanted different things. and I think ultimately it's okay to just like not be that person's person like you said like I might not be your guy same thing like I might not be your girl if you want me to be chill with whatever you know like I I might not be the girl for you and you might not be the guy for me and it happens a lot in relationships too or sometimes I think I think couples are figuring that out like like their compatibility. It's like when we meet someone and we have the chemistry and whatever, we date. And then after a while, you actually start, I think, realistically having these conversations with yourself about every relationship requires sacrifice. or say to yourself, what am I willing to sacrifice for this relationship, for this person? You know, what behaviors, if any, am I willing to change, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And yeah, you reach to a point where it's just like, I'm, I'll do anything for love, but I won't do that kind of thing. You know, that, you know, that classic meatloaf song where you're just like,

I don't know, like, no, like I'm not. Respectfully declined. And cause I think sometimes in relationships, like we always I think a lot of if for someone who puts in a lot of effort, you know, you're just like, especially if your partner is complaining about you, about something you are or aren't doing. I think it's normal for us to be like, but I do this and I always do this and I want credit for that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think sometimes that's fair. And maybe sometimes we need to like hear our partner express ourselves. And it's just kind of a balance there between having that conversation. I agree. I'm curious for you when you talk about your expectations, like did it come down to something like a process that you wanted to look differently, whether that was like emotional, like the way you were responding to one another, or was it more like introducing behaviors and practices that weren't existing already in the relationship? I think it was like a little bit of both because I think like introducing behaviors.

And yeah, I think like that's something where like I was trying to communicate. Like that was something where I would feel like I was trying to communicate something. But a lot of times the conversation would be like, OK, but I just think you're expecting too much. Like that was something where I was like, but I'm just, I'm literally just trying to communicate my needs. And if you think that my needs are too much, like, I feel like that's a conversation that happens at a separate time than when I'm not trying to say, Hey, I need, I need this. Are we talking like love languages kind of stuff? Yeah. Like love languages. And also I can't, I mean, I'm trying to understand, like, I don't want to like put Clayton on the spot here. mean i'm trying to understand like i don't want to like put clayton

on the spot here i'm just trying to understand like what are these what are some of these things that could be relatable for people where you know you had an expectation that he didn't feel like he could meet and and is it something that men maybe in this particular example need to elevate what they're willing to do? Or are we talking about just, hey, you want this, I don't want that. There's no right or wrong. I think some of it was like a big thing that I felt I really needed was like thoughtfulness. That was something I was like, I just, I really want to be considered and I want, and I know that takes effort. And if it doesn't come like natural to somebody, then like, it's something you can work on, but it can be a

frustrating process to work on as you're going through it. So I think like that was one thing where I was like, I just want to be like a little bit more considered or thought about. And that was something I was able to communicate. yeah I think it's it can be a frustrating process to like work with somebody on that if it's not like a natural how much do you think Clayton struggled with trying to make make his bachelor experience worthwhile or mean something I feel like I haven't talked to him in a while, but when he was going through it, and I can appreciate this. When you get asked to be the bachelor, there's this incredible opportunity, there's these expectations. And I think people kind

of over glamorize what it can be. But you're thinking, okay, well, worst case scenario, I'll get some followers, I'll make some money, whatever, who knows, i'll get some followers i'll make some money whatever who knows i'll get this access and with clayton he just you know he didn't get really the followers a lot of other people got he really he got a he got a tough beat and i can empathize with being clayton shoes i can only imagine trying to i gotta i gotta do something with this otherwise this was all for nothing and granted he had you in the relationship and certainly it's like hey well at least I got Susie and that's great but do you feel like he also struggled with trying to the pressure he may be even put on himself to like do something with this and not feel like he regretted saying yes to being the bachelor I think at first he really struggled

with that and it was very painful like the experience was a painful one, certainly for him. And there was a point in our relationship where he said, if I didn't have you, none of this would be worth it. Like I, he was very careful to choose his words because I think there was a point when he did regret it because it was very painful. It's really hard to go through. But he was like, I don't ever want you to think, which I appreciate that he would say that, but he's like, I don't ever want you to think that I would like take it back because you've come into my life. And, but that also is a lot of pressure to be like, okay, so if we aren't together, then it's not worth it. And you regret this major decision that's changed your life indefinitely. But now I think now where he's at, he does not feel that way

anymore. We're not together. And honestly, he is so much happier. We recently caught up and like he is doing really well. I think he's kind of like found his purpose. He gets to have great conversations. He's talking about mental health, learning about mental health, and even just like being open to having those conversations, even if you're not like entirely educated or well-versed, like he's having those conversations and he's seeing the difference that even just being open to it can make. So I think, I don't think he regrets it. I think he's found his like purpose through it. So that's good. Yeah. You recently did an interview and you were talking about or like the fact that when you ended things, you were open to either staying in touch or not having communication. He was the one to say, no, I don't feel like we should communicate. Have you had relationships in the past where you stay

in contact with your exes or not? And like, why did that affect your decision of keeping it open with him? Yeah. So I would say I'm pretty disciplined to my decision. So like I can make the decision like we are not like I know we're not compatible and I can stay friendly with you. I can stay in communication with you and I am not going to be tempted to like rekindle that. And I've like had a relationship where I was able to do that and we don't keep in touch or like call each other up. But like over the course of like the next year, we were able to like support each other through some hard stuff that happened in our lives individually. And I really feel like it was unconditional love with us, like as like on a human level, me and this other ex. But we and honestly, that ex, the door would have been left open. It's not anymore. He's in a very happy relationship. We don't communicate

or anything. But we weren't in a place in our lives where we were able to like be together. or anything but we weren't in a place in our lives where we were able to like be together so I think I wouldn't like recommend staying in touch to other people and that's why I was like open to closing the door with Clayton because I'm like if you are gonna be just miserable being friends with me or do you cool with me how much do you feel like your willingness to even suggest it with Clayton had to do with the fact that in the breakup, you probably had a little bit more power in that moment or like, yeah, I got the impression that you were the one who initiated the breakup. Am I wrong? I mean, maybe it was mutual. I think it started out as mutual for sure. Like we both, it was like a conversation we had to start like mutually. We were like, what's what's gonna happen here because it was like getting

rough at the end there I was like okay like we're both unhappy and so it was a conversation we had it wasn't like a big fight like it actually was a conversation and Clayton was honestly open-minded to the breakup at first like I think that we, like, we were not in a healthy place. And then we stayed together. We were, like, moving out of an apartment. And we stayed together after we'd broken up, like, for, like, a week in that apartment as we, like, packed our things and, like, got out of there.

And I think he was like, do we really want to do this? Like, it kind of was like that, oh, shit. Like, we're actually doing this. And we had a couple more discussions about it and, and how public we wanted to make it off the bat. It's like, okay, do we like hard launch a breakup or do we like soft launch it and then see

how things go as we like put distance. And, and then, yeah, ultimately I was like, no, I think we got to like, this has got to end.

So I don't know. I mean, maybe I guess you could say maybe, I don't know that I would say I guess you could say maybe i don't know that i would say i had more power like it was a it was a conversation and i just got the impression that you were like you said you finally said you knew it had to end and he was more like i recognize it should end but do we want but do we want to and in that moment i think you have the power like power can change again like like drastically, rapidly.

I don't mean like, I don't think it's like, it's not like one person's always in power in a relationship. But in that moment, it seemed like you were more confident in the decision, regardless of the disappointment and heartbreak that came with it. And he seemed a little bit more unsure. And when we feel uncertainty, we feel powerless. Yeah. And I think sometimes we can sense that,

then we feel a little guilt if we feel like we have power that maybe we don't even want in that situation. And that's when we say things like, well, maybe we can still be friends and hang out because we're trying to like soften the blow. Soften the blow. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, I could see that being a part of it i guess to an extent

but yeah i don't know also i think that i cared so much about him that i was like if you need me like i'm here for you you know like i i genuinely on a human level i care about you and if you need me i will be here i say that about like my exes that i have nothing to do with now. You know what I'm saying? But like if they called me up and was like, I have no one else to ask, I'd like to think I would step up. I mean, again, there's some variables to consider. Is it appropriate? You know, but all things being equal,

if like I was like the lone person to help them, I'd be like, okay, you know, I guess it's weird, but I'm here for you. It's weird, but I'm here for you. It's weird, but I'm here for you. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Susie, when I was chatting with Clayton back when he was going through the season, I remember, and it's before I knew you guys were together.

I kind of suspected, but he wasn't telling me spoilers, but also simultaneously trying to ask my advice. Yeah. And I remember there was a point where he was very panicked that the show had this big conspiracy of making you The Bachelorette. Oh, yeah. And he was asking me a lot of questions around that and if I thought there was a chance that even though you two were together at that time if if they were going to try to break you guys up so they can make you the bachelorette

do you remember that or or what was that experience like and how did you guys deal with that oh yeah that was actually pretty tough I think that he's I mean I think he's still convinced that that's like that was the plan was for me not to be with him and that I would be the Bachelorette. Like, I think that still like lives true. I mean, I thought you should have been the Bachelorette. I thought you had a very compelling storyline. I mean, there's nothing against Gabby or Rachel, but I thought, yeah, I would have. It seemed like it would have been my choice at the

time leading up obviously the finale of course of course was such a big finale that like there you know it made sense why they had two bachelorettes but leading up to that crazy finale it was to me like so obvious that like it's got it should it's got to be Susie I don't know I mean I think it could have gone to so many different people for sure. It really could have. It depends like, you know, how it. It's very easy for you to say. No, I really think so.

Like it depends how anyone, anyone like, well, maybe not anyone, but like a lot of people. I mean, yes, they could make anyone. No. But knowing, I just know they weren't going to make anyone. I think there, yeah, I think that there certainly could have been. Also, we didn't see everything. So maybe my story was told in a way that people thought I could or I would or I could. But maybe if it had been edited differently, maybe you guys would have felt different too.

Because I met a lot of the girls and I would say a strong handful of them would be great candidates for sure. But also, I don't know that it's like that much of a blessing. We can make it. I was like, let's make a YouTube channel or Patreon. I will follow Susie around L.A. with a camera. Honor your dates. That's a fun. We'll make our own version.

No, if I could produce my own. Yeah. I think it'd be so fun. If I had like executive control. Yeah. That'd be great. That would be great. That'd be so fun.

Susie does dating be so fun does dating suzy does dating la so did you ever have conversations with anyone about you being the bachelorette ever so any time that it was like brought up i just pretended like i didn't know what people were talking about anybody i'm talking about did anyone who worked for the show bring it up to you if anybody ever did I would have just pretended like I didn't know what they were talking about. Because nobody ever came to me, well, nobody, I don't think anybody ever came to me

and was like, you should be the Bachelorette. No, but I'm wondering if someone working for the show ever floated the idea of, or maybe checked in to see how happy you were in your relationship with with Clayton in case maybe there was a you know a potential bachelorette spot available I mean obviously you travel with producers like when you're traveling people definitely checked in with like I remember having a conversation of like how do you feel about Clayton and I was like oh he's great

like from everything that I can see wonderful but they're like no but how do you really feel this was like towards hometowns and i was like no i really actually like him but i also felt like i had no clue who he was like i remember when i said the like i'm falling for you it was like i'm and i said this so this is while filming still oh yeah okay so yeah like you're i was like traveling with producers and people were checking in on those things, but like anytime there was anything ever, ever even like hinted or like talked about, I, I would just pretend like, I don't know what anyone's talking about always pretty much. But what after, after you left the show and you two were together? Oh no. I mean, I know I was like, I didn't talk to like anybody really because I felt like I just totally got bamboozled at the end I

was like what the hell just happened and like I wasn't like I wasn't like text I texted one producer I said hey I would love to like have a very honest conversation with you like love your input and then I actually didn't follow up with that producer because I was like I don't know who I trust I don't know if I trust them Clayton like all I know is like my I know myself and like I'm just gonna ease my way through this I felt like I didn't trust anybody at that point like I just felt like the way everything happened I was just very much like I just it just was very confusing and I just wanted to protect myself so no no no after the show nobody ever came to me and was like oh this could be yours no and I but I wouldn't have been open to that either you know like i was just gotcha yeah so what's uh in the dating space what's next for

you what are characteristics that you haven't been getting uh in your past relationships that uh having not received them that you're specifically eyeing on on as you look to embark on dating in the future? Okay. Specifically, I think I really, really, really want somebody who is just like highly considerate, very thoughtful, good, like great communication as far as like making their needs and expectations, making me aware of them and then being open to me making those things aware for them as well. And I think obviously a lot of it comes down to like natural compatibility about what you're looking for, like how much time you want to spend together, how, you know, how quickly things

progress if it feels natural for both of you, you know I mean like I think that I think a lot of those things kind of come naturally and if they're not there then I you know I would I wouldn't move forward in that but yeah I think just somebody that's like just highly consider I think that's something that I really want somebody who's going to consider my needs my expectations and and just think about me and think about how they can like can you give me like a scenario because I mean I agree with you how they can like. Can you give me like a scenario? Because I mean, I agree with you how you consider it, but that's, I feel like that's kind of like. Super broad.

Super broad. Can you give me like an example of a situation where maybe in the past, this is how it was handled and in the future, but your expectation was I would have liked them to handle it this way. Yeah, I think, well, sometimes I think it can be as like simple as like, oh, I'm stopping to get food. I mean, to pick you something up. Like it sounds silly, but like sometimes people don't do that. And,

and it's like, so like you've had boyfriends like go get like Chipotle, come home and then it's like, yeah. And you're like, what's for dinner? for dinner and they're like well I'm eating Chipotle yeah yeah yeah no that's yeah that's happened for sure oh interesting but like I think

wow or Chick-fil-a or anything or anything it doesn't matter I don't know what the order is it could be anything but there's never like

can I grab you anything yes exactly like I know I do that with them yeah I know it's true that's the thing is like I just

and I know it sounds silly but sometimes like. Yeah, I just want somebody who's like considerate and thoughtful. Like I think that's just so huge. And I'm not like a big gifts person by any means. It's not like, oh, I need gifts or anything, but just like, oh, I thought of you. So like I wanted to get you this or I wanted to surprise you with this date or whatever. I know you love the beach, so I planned a beach day. Like those little things where it's like, I know who you are and I want to do something that's going to make you happy as a person. It could be anything. It could, it doesn't, it's certainly not gifts. That's like my last love language. I feel like it's like acts of service. Maybe acts of service. You can have an act of service be getting you something or picking you up something.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I mean. It's not like, here's an expensive jewelry. Well, no, I think we're still talking gifts there because a gift

doesn't have to be expensive. It can be thoughtful. Do you stigmatize gift giving love language? I feel like we always view it as materialistic. That's true. Because acts of service is more,

acts of service could be, I know that your car needs the oil change and you're putting it off and it's stressful. Or waking up early to like, you know, make your partner coffee because they have to get up early to work.

I mean, I do that. Nick is literally like, what do I do on a good night? He's like naming the things that he likes to do. He's like, oh,

this is good quality. At 8 a.m. All right, well, it's something I don't do. Yeah. But it could be just something you do to make their life easier and you go out of their way to help them. Whatever that is. Yes. That actually means so much to me when people, yeah, maybe that's a great way to put it into words. And I'm probably struggling to find a way to put it into words, but

yeah. Considering what could make this person's life better, easier, more joyous, and finding a way to like bring that to my life. Like that would be something because I feel like I do that. I like I think about that person and I'm like, what what would make them so happy? What would how would how can I improve their day, their life, whatever it is? And I also think that I'm looking for somebody who like really wants to see me succeed. Like somebody who's like, what can I do to help you get there? How can I emotionally support you? Or even as things happen, just being that person that's like 100% team Susie. You don't feel like you've had cheerleaders. Yes. No. And I think that I think that I am so naturally like, I will like break

my back trying to like help somebody like find their way, make their life better. Like I will do anything for my person. And I don't, I really don't feel like I've ever had that like in any relationship to be honest. It's tough to find. It is i i totally relate to that i feel like it's something i've often felt like i didn't have and then when i found it it's it's really quite nice and i always try to do that as well right reciprocate it yeah yeah yeah because i think it feels so like if i'm feeling like it's unequal and like i do take pride in like being able to be like thoughtful or like nurturing or caring for someone but then when it's not reciprocated, it feels so like there's almost I sometimes feel desperate or like there's this level of like it's so cheapened and like. Right.

And it's not that I'm like ever giving or providing with the expectation of like I'm going to give you this so you give it to me in return. But if I'm constantly giving, giving, giving and it's not it's not that it's a return. giving, giving, giving. And it's not, it's not that it's a return. It's just like, if that person isn't equally giving or caring or thinking through that, those actions, it's like, there is a disbalance. So like. What did you think those past partners expectations were for you as their girlfriend? Or, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? What do they, if I were to ask your exes, Like, you know what I'm saying? What do they, if I were to ask your exes, what do you think your role as a boyfriend or their role as a girlfriend should be?

What do you think it would be? I think. Like where's the disconnect in terms of, is it just a matter of compatibility or they maybe need to do some like learning of how to be a better boyfriend. Because I do think that's happening now in dating and relationships.

We're expecting less of ourselves and more from the people we're dating, but no one's properly, I don't know, coaching these people up. And with young men, I'm not seeing, I think we're expecting our younger generation to mature slower. Yeah. And we're expecting, I don't know, our younger generation to mature slower. Yeah.

And we're expecting less of them and we're putting less responsibility on them earlier in life. And I think that's just, you know, I think so when you have these like, you know, young men starting to date, you're almost like, it feels very immature or childlike. And I'm just wondering if there's things that we should be putting out there to set new expectations or what, like we hear bare minimum all the time, but what,

what should, what should that be? What's that look like? That's a great question. I think, I think that I've, I've had like, I've had four boyfriends.

One was like the super romantic, but like very toxic, like liar manipulator. First boyfriend right in college that I just, you know, fell real fast. What a way to start out. building and and then I went right from that to like this really nice guy and I thought like the main priority was like being a good person but then there was like not really like the chemistry and the other things that are important in a relationship and and he wasn't ambitious at all like at all was not no not ambitious at all at all? Yeah, maybe he did actually. He actually loved video games. And then I actually dated a really great guy. It's the guy that I mentioned earlier. He was really, really great. But I think his expectations for me were different. Again, it came down to like ambition. Like I think I've always been so ambitious and I think it can be hard to,

not hard to support, but like, I really feel like the sky's the limit for myself like I'm like I I have so much I want to do and achieve and I know that that's it can be like intimidating or scary and I think at that time in that relationship like that person I didn't feel like they wanted me to succeed and not that they didn't want me to succeed but I think they were afraid of what would come with that and that was like what I think ultimately like ended that relationship because I, I was feeling distracted from my goals and my ambitions. And it doesn't mean he wasn't like a wonderful person in like so many other aspects of our relationship. He was, but like, I stepped away because I was like, this is, it's not serving me as far as like, you're not my,

you're not my cheerleader. Again, I didn't feel like he was like wanting me to like, as far as like you're not my you're not my cheerleader again I didn't feel like he was like wanting me to like just thrive and and whatever that took if that meant moving away from Virginia and then yeah I think like with Clayton for sure I think there's an element to it where it's like this yeah you're my my standards are it's like I just want somebody who is going to like through and through be there for me, want to root me on, want to like see me have the ultimate success and like be a part of it. I see the same vision for you that you have for yourself. Yeah,

I think, yeah, I think so. And I think a lot of people, and maybe it's because I am a little bit selfish still. And maybe it's like, oh, I still want,

and I think everyone should be selfish in their career. You can have both in a relationship. You can, yeah. And you yeah and you should have to talk about it you just have to and you both have to have your own thing too you know you both have to be like this is my goal this is my passion this is my goal is my passion and like even Clayton I have had that conversation where he was like I was so lost I didn't know what I was doing it was like damage control the whole time we were together and you like I think when you start a relationship it's great to be in a place where lost. I didn't know what I was doing. It was like damage control the whole time we were together. And you like, I think when you start a relationship, it's great to be in a place with yourself and with your career. It doesn't have to be that way. But if you just know your passion and your like what your pursuit is in life, like then you can naturally be in a relationship

where you're not like stressed about what am I doing over here though and like I feel like we put a lot of emphasis and like focus of our emotional focus on that aspect for him yeah I think that's something young men struggle with a lot too I mean I know society is evolving and changing in terms of expectations but I think men probably feel it more if when they don't know what they want to do with themselves like professionally or they feel a bit lost in terms of like what they should do next. I think it's really hard for them to be good partners.

I do. Or certainly the best possible partner they can be because I think there's a lot of insecurities that come with like I don't know what I want to do and ambition and i know we always there's conversations about like i know like a lot of successful women uh feel like they have a hard time dating because it like emasculates men yes and i you know and i'm sure that plays a role but i think it also i think there's an element of less about it's about emasculating men or just even men when they're hanging out with their buddies.

If yet one guy is just like, I don't really know what I want to do in and out. I mean, I remember in my early 20s, I was talking to my buddy yesterday who's in commercial real estate. And it just reminded me, I always had a job and I was always a hard worker. But first i was an accounting major and i did a couple different accounting jobs i fucking hated and i left that and got into you know and so my mid early 20s i was just like i don't know what the fuck i want to do like what is this is this the rest of my life it was a very kind of scary feeling and then you know then the whole bachelor stuff happened i took took a lot of risks. And when you're going through those kind of phases in your life, when you, it's like, I've always enjoyed and welcomed competition. So I've embraced it, but it's, you know, it's as much as about like gender or it's like, oh, she's a woman and she makes more money than me.

I'm sure that definitely plays a role. I'm sure there's a lot of guys who let that get to them. But I also think there's just an element of like it just bothers them in general, whoever it is. And if you're the romantic partner, you're obviously seeing them the most or they see your success most often. They see your success most often, you know, and I think that can, if you're not matched kind of like where you see yourself or your confidence in what you want to do and your stability and other aspects of your life, I think that really puts a lot of stress on any relationship. Yeah, I would agree with that.

I think that probably plays true. And also like coming onto The Bachelor, like I had a business. I had kind of like, oh, my thing my thing you know like a career a career yeah and and clayton definitely had a career but it wasn't he wasn't passionate about it like where i i studied film in college like i've always wanted to do something in it and so i was finally doing what i loved and you had a goal right almost like you had the career the photography yeah but that career it sounded i'm getting the impression like you had so much more to achieve oh yeah in that career like this goal and that passion yes where a lot of people like in clayton's shoes or even myself when i was a

younger man when you're like when you're in med device sales it's like that's a job yeah you know and if you go and be the bachelor you're thinking i want to align my passions with like a job, you know? And if you go and be the bachelor, you're thinking, I want to align my passions with like a job and like use this platform that's gifted to me in something I love to do. Like that's the dream. And you had that with like, oh, like weddings, cinematography, there's some, you know, bachelor,

there's a fit here. I can really work with this. I can dive into this passion that I have. Yeah. It certainly helped. And it certainly has been great for my career. And I think that's a part of what is exciting when you do come off the show. And like, yeah, if you've come off the show and like Clayton and I, you find love.

What an exciting time to be like, oh, I'm going to pursue something. I'm going to make something of this. And we have each other. Like that is truly so exciting. So wonderful. But I think a lot of our time because his experience was probably not what he anticipated. It was like damage control, even emotional damage control. It was like, we need to address, you know, all the pain and the hurt and figure out how you want to move forward. You know, I'm curious if you have insight, because I think in talking about like careers

and really relationships, something that I personally find to be like really confusing and challenging is understanding when it becomes the right time to start factoring someone into your decisions because on one hand it's like dating at 25 there's very much a well like what are the odds this is my person like I don't know and so it would feel really foolish or I think there's like such a narrative of like not letting a man or a partner like stifle your goals and ambitions but then there's also a like but ultimately when I have a family like I want it to be a family I've made sacrifices for that I take into account in all my decisions that are like where there's a partner who I go to bat for just like I expect them to go to bat for me and that involves making sacrifices sometimes so like when you're at that stage where it's like you can't necessarily tell like what the right

level of sacrifice to make is or when you start like welcoming someone into that like kind of decision room, like how have you navigated that? So I moved to Japan at 22 and I was dating the really nice guy that wasn't ambitious. And I didn't think twice about it. I was like, 100% I'm going. I have a contract in Tokyo, Japan for a year. Absolutely, I'm going. Because at that point, I knew, like, in my mind, I was like, this guy is, anytime we do a trip or anything, it's on me. Like, he didn't have the, and we were young. So like 22, I know, I get it. But I was like, I was out hustling. Like, I was a a production assistant i was a waitress i was working craigslist jobs like i was hustling i was like i want to do something i want to make something and he was working like 20 hours a week it was like i don't

think it's healthy to work more than 20 hours a week and i was like oh huh i would yeah he's like i would yeah i know which is he we were. So we had just graduated. He was a college boyfriend. Is that the norm these days with like people? In the book, The Defining Decade, like the psychologist who wrote it talks a lot about being underemployed in your 20s and how sometimes being underemployed is almost more damaging than being unemployed because there's this like kind of facade of like, oh, well, I do have a job versus like unemployment. There's so much of a stigma with it that it's like this needs to change. This needs to change versus underemployed. you can kind of coast a little bit more and like

convince yourself it's okay yeah i'm just like the mentality that 20 hours a week is healthy right and versus well i think 50 or 60 if you like are a grinder i mean i don't know if that's sustainable. I know 40 is a, but yeah, man, I know. And I think that if you can, if you can live a lifestyle where working 20 hours a week and then the rest of your life is to enjoy, like that is freaking amazing. Like what that would, that would be a dream because, but then I would think of it as like, Oh, 20 hours of work. Then I can use the rest of this time to do what I'm passionate about. You know what I mean? Like there's, if you could, if you could make that balance, that would be sick. But when I'm taking this guy on trips with me or, you know, paying for all of our dates and stuff like that, I was like, well, okay, maybe it's not healthy for you, but if you want to like continue

this lifestyle, like you're going to have to do a little more work. Yeah. So when I moved, he was like, well, I'll come out once I can save enough money and we'll get a place together. But I was like, well, I have a place to live. So I'm not going to like move from that place. And I was in a home with like other people and stuff like that. And I mean, I just was like my I put the ball in his court because I was like, he is not going to do it. I knew it. I was like, there's no way he can afford to come out to Tokyo. And I'm happy to continue this relationship. And we tried, but I just knew I was like, this is never going to work because I'm going to be there for 14 months. You don't want to work more than 20 hours a week. And I'm not going to like sacrifice my housing situation

and drop everything when you come, when you finally come out to live. But I feel like I just, I guess at that point I wasn't taking the relationship that seriously. Because if I were, then I would have been all about it. And I would have been like, yeah, when he comes out, we'll find a place together, whatever. But I knew I couldn't like trust in him to make that happen. But I think now if I found somebody and I had like a really cool opportunity, like I worked at Disney in Japan. So it was a cool opportunity. It wasn't like a really cool opportunity. Like I worked at Disney in Japan, so it was a cool opportunity. It wasn't like a major career move, but it was a great life move. Like I learned a lot. I grew a lot and I'm so glad I did it. But I don't know that I would pick up and leave if I met like the

man of my dreams tomorrow, maybe not tomorrow. And we like went on a few dates and I was like, this could be my person. Like I probably wouldn't pick up and move to an entirely new country, like start over, start start fresh but I'm just looking for more stability in my life in general right now so yeah I get the sense that your new person whenever you meet them is going to be established yeah that would be cool and capable of uh yeah capable of still prioritizing what they want, but prioritizing you and being your cheerleader. And I'm sure it sounds like you will always do that in your relationship, but it sounds like your person will be, when it comes to like, what do you do and what do you want to do? Those will be easy answers for them to answer. And I feel like that's, and I I think your person will also be will match your work ethic yeah I think work ethic is a huge part of it I don't care like what what you make whatever but like if you're working day in day out and you're passionate like that to me is so attractive

and and I think that people like that ultimately have success like I believe that I'm like if you put in the work and you're passionate, you're going to figure out where you're aligned and things will fall into place. I really do think that. So yeah, it's more about work ethic and ambition, passion. Well, because going back to thinking about this, imagine how emotionally taxing it is to be in your 20s these days,

regardless, say, if you're a young man and not knowing what you're doing or not knowing what you want to do or doing something you don't love and that's a question people get asked all the time especially on dating so what do you do what do you want to do and and to be on the defensive for that question that's like a you know one of those like top five like dating questions you ask people like i think it's it's tough for people like i don't know like not to make excuses but i think if nothing else i think if you're out there dating it's something to be mindful of of like how compatible you are or aren't when it comes to like just where you are at in life in

terms of you know how confident you are and what you're doing and what you want to do you know it's not so much like are you at your like destination but i think it's more to do with like how and i've been on both sides i've been the person's like honestly like i don't know everything's just kind of up for grabs these days and that can be fun and exciting but it's that was really hard for me to be in a relationship with that state of mind um and i think people who try uh they've they meet those challenges in those relationships yeah yeah i wonder for like successful working professional women out there who are dating i'm curious if if the ones who like felt like they were dating men who felt

emasculated, were those men that they were dating, like, did they have jobs that they liked? Even if like, if for example, like, let's say they were dating a teacher who loved being a teacher, but they just made less, like maybe you're a lawyer or a doctor or whatever. If that was the case, did you still experience that kind of feeling like you're emasculating your man? Or are these stories more about you dating a guy who's just generally not fulfilled with what they're doing? And that plays a role. Because I wonder if it's more the latter. I think it depends on the guy.

Every situation varies. If they don't have confidence, it wouldn't matter if they liked what they did or not. Certain guys can be so hung up on the monetary and like salary and all that whatever like i'm sure that happens but i'm i'm all i'm just wondering if there are scenarios where maybe it's not about just the money it has more to do with the fact that they just don't know like they're dating someone let's say who's like this high power lawyer whatever they're doing in their career they're making good money and they and and they go to work with a purpose and a goal and they like it and they feel like, hey, I got, you know, this, this, this promotion I'm working towards. Like, you know, I remember

not being in that position and seeing peers of mine who were and being very envious of that, you know, that feeling of purpose, you know, and, and I wonder if it has less to do with, oh, well, you make X and I make Y, I feel emasculated versus you seem to have it all figured out. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I hate what I do or et cetera, et cetera. I think you're onto something with that. Cause even the way you gave that example of like, uh, maybe perhaps a teacher who might make a little bit less in their career but if they are super passionate about what they do and obviously like there's the exception to the rules people who truly just care about like monetary value but 100 i have met some like dude teachers that like

love what they do and i think there's i like i've been attracted to those i'm thinking of two guys in particular because they loved what they did and they were super passionate and then they were so interested in me and i was like i i don't know i thought that was like very cool it's funny you gave that example because i immediately thought of two dudes who i was like oh they were very like passionate about their work they loved what they did and like they didn't there was no like weird, weird vibes. If you're out,

if you're out there, if you're a woman and you have a very, if you've experienced this feeling before, I would try to find someone who, regardless of what they make less, is,

they're a coach, a teacher, I don't know, whatever they, they seem to really like it. They like what they do. And I wonder if they would experience the same thing

versus someone who is stuck in a job. Stuck job and and makes less i feel like that could be a recipe for disaster yeah because in that situation like all they kind of have in this like being stuck in a job is like money like that's the thing like that's the only thing that money yeah and then you find someone who's like absolutely trumping that and they have this like personal fulfillment i bet that's so yeah I think that's the key to life. Like finding something. Yeah. Personal fulfillment. That thing that like brings you to life that you can be joyous about. Like that. I really think that's how you find happiness in life. And if you're happy, then who cares? You know, it's like, okay, I don't make a lot of money. Obviously,

we all love money, but like. Yeah, but I wonder if there's something there. Yeah, I think there is. Because I think you're just saying, oh, like every guy I've dated is emasculated. Again, I'm sure that tracks, but just be mindful of the people you date. And it's like, you know, when you go on a date, they say, how do they talk about their ex? How do they talk about a past employer? How do they talk about what they do now and what they love or how their happiness like how happy or satisfied or fulfilled do they feel about other aspects of their lives when you meet them because if they're constantly like oh i don't like this i don't like that well a question that i've started asking in my matchmaking calls when i'm screening people is how much does your work inform your identity because i think so like i think questions like

that are also like really get to the meat of, does someone feel like this is something they clock in, clock out? Or is this something that feels connected to them on a deeper level? Ooh, I like that. That is so good. Anybody borrow it?

Yeah, that's really good. Before we do texting office hours, I want to talk AI and Katie Holmes. But also tomorrow, all about the royals uh we're talking it's the best day of my life ali's gonna really thrive this episode this is the full moon to her werewolf royal it's really ali's day but we'll be breaking down the harry and megan megan documentary i'm very i'm. I've watched it. We've been waiting. I'm in.

I'm very invested. I have lots of thoughts, I have lots of opinions. It really is the best reality TV out there. Huh. Okay. Hot take. Because it's real.

Tara Schuster is with us, author of By Yourself the Fucking Lilies. Also, former Comedy Central executive will be breaking down the episodes with us talking about her book but really getting into the meat and potatoes

of Harry and Meghan I'm really if you have any interest in reality TV or the Royals Ali will be really taking us through it and then we'll be getting

she's a royal expert she's we'll have her bring in her expert and then Tara and myself and Amanda will giving our camp commentary so that that is uh tomorrow i'm going deeper do you any did you guys see uh katie holmes at the red carpet yeah we did oh my god i haven't i really i really thought it truly looked like a photo from 2002 it was trippy did anyone ask her about the outfit oh did, did we have a picture? Yeah.

Did you not see this, Susie? Well, I saw it briefly over there a moment ago. So, I'm just curious. When people go to red carpets, do they pretty much always have a stylist? What do you mean? Like, does somebody usually style you when you go to a red carpet event for the most part? Well, depends who you

go with. Okay. The stuff like most of our peers do? No, like something like this. This? Yeah. Oh, well, Katie Holmes, you would think she would have a stylist. That's what I'm wondering. Was this styled by somebody?

Hey, what a look. It's the shoes for me. Oh, so anyway, yeah. I mean, yeah, Katie Holmes, you'd think she'd have a stylist. I mean, it was like the I Heart. It's Jingle Ball At Madison Square Garden I'm surprised she was at Jingle Ball

Maybe there's a performing artist She really just wanted to hear Jack sing Victoria's Secret You know what we might be totally off on this Like this might be what's coming back People have been commenting Like no I refuse to go back. People are up in arms, I'm sure.

So this is like a dress with ripped jeans underneath. I mean, it's technically a top. It's just long. And this look was popular. It was. Oh, yeah. The jeans under the skirt look, it was a moment. Oh, yeah.

Right. Like she might be a little bit ahead of her time. Like we might be thinking, oh, this is a throwback. But she might actually be from the future. She's in 2022. She actually might be from the future. Well, I mean, it's 20 years ago and it's popular. Exactly.

It's about time it, like, rolls back around. Yeah, I don't think it goes in, like, I don't think fashion goes in a circle. I think it goes in, like, a rubber band where it, like, do you know what I mean? So instead of going, like, jumping back to, like, let's say the 60s, it's going to go, like, teens, 10s, 90s, 80s. Like, instead of being, likes it's gonna go like teens 10s 90s 80s like instead of being like it's like snake draft interesting wow interesting okay all right but i heard of your first i feel like it reminds me a lot of like the hannah montana like disney channel era was there a specific she needs a shirt underneath that shirt yes a layer yes you

have to like reverse layer where you put the cami on top of the t-shirt. Yeah. What? Also just good on Katie Holmes. I mean, like most people would believe it's a photo from 20 years ago. Yeah. And everyone's saying like skincare, skincare on par. Like look at her go.

Yeah. What one like Y2K trend would you either be like most upset if it came back or would you lead the charge on bringing back? Upset hemp necklaces. Oh my god. Oh no. I used to love those. So did I. Yeah. I don't want them coming back. I used to do them myself. You're talking about like the ones that were like

woven. Oh yeah. The woven like hemp necklaces or bracelets for sure. I was big into that. With their like ratty bracelet they wear for 18 months yes I don't need that coming back what would I want coming back chunky waist belts

do you remember when they're used to really bold brash patterned no my sister definitely had like a silver metallic belt oh my god I used to love to go to my sister's closet. It was like a teal purse with a bedazzled peace sign and like just, I don't even know, wet seal t-shirts with like giant belts.

Do you remember the sequins belts? They were like sequins and then they would like all clamp in the middle. They were huge when I was like middle school. Yeah. Bubble skirts. Remember bubble skirts what are bubble skirts it's like when I would like limited two

had a choke hold on me me too that's what I'm talking about right now the limited the store but then it was for girls limited two

it was for little girls it's very different but it's the same brand girls are not adults yeah yes okay so the limited

was an adult store yeah limited two was for girls very different okay yeah yep gotcha but like coordinating You mean not adults? Yeah. Yes. Okay. So the limited was an adult store. Yeah. Limited two. It was for girls. Very different. Okay. Yeah. Yep.

Gotcha. But like coordinating out, yeah. I had everything. That bubble material that you're talking about, it actually is making a comeback. There's a girl on TikTok I follow and she keeps me young and it's coming back. I wish I knew her name because she's great, but she said that that bubble material, it's like. Oh no.

Yeah. Like the small shirts that would stretch, right? Yeah. Yes. I don't. knew her name because she's great but she said that that bubble material it's like oh no yeah like the small shirts that would stretch right yeah yes i don't yeah that's one i don't want to see but she said it's coming back i had the um when i was really little like the head the headbands that were basically like i don't even know but they had like combs they were stretchy and they had with little beads so it would just your whole back. Do you remember like the feather in the hair trend? Yes, absolutely. Do you remember this? What was feather in the hair?

You had to go to like a salon. I got it like implanted into my hair. Clamped with metal, like a little blue feather in your hair. In seventh grade. And it had a chokehold. I had to go to one of the girls of America. He purposely placed it so that I could still like go to church and it wouldn't show. But if I like curled it the other way, it would pop out.

Question for you ladies. Do you think a fleece vest on men are as disgusting as I do? Fleece vest? Sounds like something gross to show Joe would wear. Wait, can I get a visual of what that looks like? Like I don't understand why men wear fleeces. And I want to like do a man on the street and asking him and ask them if like, do they like, why did you wear this?

Do you mean with specifically that ultra fuzzy texture? Really any vest. I just don't get the idea of a vest. I think vests. With a suit, maybe. That's a terrible look. It says so much about a guy, and I don't think anything good. It's giving Colorado seasonal. I don't know. Yeah. It's giving like Colorado, like seasonal,

like, I don't know. Yeah. You better be rugged. Yeah. You better be like Chris Hemsworth looking like lumberjack acts by your side. If you're going to wear a vest. I see so many guys wearing this shit.

Why? I don't understand. That's what I'm saying. Why? It's like, it's impossible to, did you think your sleeves were so cool? It's definitely like a stylistic choice.

Like I see what you're saying. They're so popular. I don't understand. Where have you been seeing all these vests? Not in LA as much, but go to the Midwest, go to the South. They're all over. If it's functional, I'm okay with it. Like if it's like something that you need like central warmth, but you're doing exercise, like you said, ax, you know, I don't know, axing down trees.

What do you think about sweater vests? I don't know. See, I don't know. I'm uneducated about it, so I don't want to make assumptions on vests. I think the idea is that they help armpits sweat. What? Oh. Because they don't, like, go all the way up to your armpits.

Well, that would be great for me. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm, that would be great for me. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. I'm a sweater. And it limits the colors I can wear. Maybe we should all be wearing vests right now. Yeah. I don't think that's true.

I want to know the function. But ironically, like sweater vests, which I feel like are much more grandparent-y, are so much more in. Like, oh my God, especially like women in sweater vests. Yeah, you could style a sweater vest. I was going to ask, how do you feel about sweater vests? Because that's why I jumped to Grocery Store Joe because he likes sweater vests? Yeah, you could style a sweater vest. I was going to ask how do you feel about sweater vests? Because that's why I jumped to Grocery Store Joe

because he likes sweater vests. I had a sweater vest like run like 10 years ago. I could bring it back but not these fleece jacket vests. There's a difference.

Like those you know the puffer. What about on girls? I think the puffer vest is cute on girls. It is. Girls is different. I think it's cute on girls.

Yeah. Gentlemen, put it away. A little flannel underneath, some boots. So cute. A little beanie. I saw you did your AI little generated cartoon. I did. I gave it a shot.

We haven't done it yet. I feel like it's the new ick of the internet. Yeah. I saw a tweet that said, I don't know who needs to hear this, but no one wants to see you as a cartoon. And I relate it a lot. Yeah. I needed to see it, though. one wants to see you as a cartoon. And I relate it a lot. I needed to see it, though. I needed to see my potential.

You and your crush are the two people who wanted to see it. If you're feeling down about yourself, go ahead and do it. I'm going to get mine framed. We'll give you a glow. I'll put it next to my forehead photo. Who is she?

Gallery wall. Should we do all of ours privately? I don't know if we have, do you have, I mean, you probably do. I could Google you and find 20 images. I don't know if I have 20 images of myself to input in there. Yeah. So you would need 20 images to do it. Yeah, I think it's like, it's between 15 and 20.

So all the people who have done it have spent how much time doing this? Don't judge us. Do not judge us. How long did it take you to do? It wasn't that long. It was like, I mean, but that was part of the fun. I mean, the vein side of me was like, let me find 20 pictures that I'm choosing my best pictures to upload. Just scrolling through my Instagram. Yeah, it took me like less than less than 10 minutes. And then it takes about an hour to like generate the images, but you don't have to do anything okay

but it was like the longest hour of my life obviously waiting for them i was like wait this is actually a good idea i'll do it for all three of us and then i'll contact our good friends at framebridge and see if we can put them all up on a wall no we love framebridge i love until it shows up and i'm like yeah frame that shit yeah exactly he wants an extra one for his house yeah well I don't know these guys were looking like superheroes so I thought I was gonna get like some cool superhero images of myself and then all of a sudden it's just like tits and ass oh I could use that I know it'll it'll be it's super fun wow yeah it's like seeing yourself in a whole new way I feel like there's not really like for people with like male bodies like there's not a cleavage equivalent they just what about like

a bulge of your penis oh why do you have to say the penis i did not know your mom doesn't listen you never know you're You're just going to have to get past this and power through and start talking like an adult. A penis. It's the stutter for me. A penis. Sounds kind of Italian.

It was like, should I say penis? I know. That's why she stuttered. It was apprehensive. A penis. That got me. Sounds like a fruit.

Yeah, a penis. I identify me. Sounds like a fruit. Yeah, a pep-penis. A pep-penis. I identify as a pep-penis. All right, texting office hours. How's it going? Hey, I'm Emma. I'm 25 years old. How can we help, Emma?

So my story is surrounding the immense disappointment I felt after an incident after sex last week. Okay, what happened? So I've been seeing this 25-year-old male for about a month. We actually met two months ago at a bar and then two weeks later subsequently matched on Tinder and was talking after that. I met up with him again about a month ago. Our typical encounters since then have been me inviting him over, us chatting over drinks for a couple hours, me making dinner, and then us having sex. But last Wednesday was a little different. I actually spent almost all day with him. He had made plans to take me to lunch.

We came back to mine. We went out for drinks after that and then came back, made dinner, and then we had sex. However, unfortunately, at the culmination of this lovemaking, the condom slipped, exposing me to all of his good stuff. And I was not on birth control at the time. I've actually been practicing the natural family planning method for two years pretty successfully. And that has entailed me tracking my ovulation. So that night, I was staunchly aware upon the accident that I had ovulated within a really risky period within 12 to 24 hours of my ovulation because I'd had a previous positive ovulation test two days prior.

And for those that don't know, Plan B is usually not effective in these situations after ovulation. So that evening, I was going through it. I was having physical manifestations of shock, anxiety, couldn't stop shaking because my options then were to either get the emergency IUD placed the next day or even worse so, waiting to see if I was pregnant two weeks from the date and taking it from there. So I got a couple of questions. One, how, how, when you say slipped off, what, what exactly happened with the condom? So he hadn't told me he came and then I believe his penis became flaccid and then it slipped off and then semen was everywhere. So wait, he climaxed and kept having sex?

I don't think we were like so much having sex at that point, but after he moved away, we realized that the condom wasn't on him. Oh, so you're not entirely sure when it came off. Is that maybe? Correct. Exactly. Yeah. But you were exposed to sehen yes okay gotcha just

trying to figure out how what was he doing like i don't i don't know didn't you have that thought of like yes yes i did and you're certain that he was because it's totally unaware yeah well it sounds like it came off because he was no longer aroused and therefore no longer fit. This is the first time this has happened to me, but I don't believe it's uncommon for this to occur. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

And then explain to our audience what you mean by the emergency IUD. Yes. So typically the option for failure of contraception is plan B, which you want to take as soon as possible. And that prevents the release of the egg from the ovary into the uterus. However, in many situations, post ovulation and in women over, I believe it's 165 pounds, the emergency IUD is the best next option, if not the better option for most situations. iud is the best next option if not the better option for most situations and essentially you go and get the iud placed upon an emergency basis so you just get it as you would normally okay interesting and what's your question either you can either get the copper iud or uh you can get

the hormonal iud up to five days after unprotected sex. Is one more effective than the other? Previously, studies had been only done on the copper IUD, but now I believe there was a blind trial last year in 2021 that showed that they were equally as effective, hormonal and copper. And did you make a decision? I don't know if I missed that. Did you make a decision? Yes. So I then ended up, I woke up promptly at 7 a.m., started calling all the clinics in my area. I have three kind of reproductive clinics and two out of the three would not provide me with the emergency IUD, but one fortunately did. And I ended up getting the IUD that morning. Okay. Is it an invasive procedure? Is it not? Okay. Is it an invasive procedure? Is it not? It's very unpleasant. It's very different for many women.

Essentially, they clamp onto the cervix and then measure your cervix with a rod and then place the IUD. The procedure itself takes less than 10 minutes. Sounds terrible. But it's terrible. You have to take 800 milligrams of ibuprofen. They give you a heating pack. Many women pass out. It's very uncomfortable. The only time I've ever passed out. Wow. Post-IUD insertion. Meanwhile, he's playing Mario Kart with his buddies. I was making all these calls for two hours and he was lying in bed on his phone. Also, I feel like I should say, I'm so sorry you had this experience in general,

like that can be kind of traumatic and scary and you're doing natural family planning. So I'm sure you are like, you know, you take pride in being able to like have control of your body and understand your body. So that sucks that you felt like you had to make that decision. What's up.

And so did he express any concern at all? Cause I mean, 25 year old me would have been freaking out freaking out like oh my god even now yeah well now how about me i would be um he he did the night of he was but essentially he was saying like we'll figure it out we'll figure it out it'll be fine oh it's also a ticking time i'm like yeah he's acting way too like when yeah right it would have been nice for him to like so you were just to clarify you were making all of these calls to the clinics in front of him yeah so he knew and he wasn't like offering to research or help you

nothing nothing so what's your question so i guess to, we have been kind of having this casual relationship. We haven't defined what it is. We don't have, at the moment, we haven't discussed exclusivity. I'm just wondering what the expectations then are of a partner in situations like these. Am I right to be feeling disappointed about his reaction and his actions? Yes. Yes. Yes. Totally. Well, I guess I'll give my, what I would expect for myself and men, and then the ladies in the room can give their thoughts as well. I feel like, you know, these are tricky situations that I'm guessing your 25 year old partner or whatever you want to call him, maybe not, maybe didn't experience, maybe there's some immaturity, some awkwardness. You don't know what to say in a situation where you don't experience, maybe there's some immaturity, some awkwardness, you don't know

what to say in a situation where you don't have much information. So I'm guessing that would be the excuse from him or other men. But the problem is, is like he should have been able to recognize your concern and your stress levels and the fact that it was a prayer for you and even if he didn't know much about it to just show that he's empathizing with the situation and just offer help even if it's like he knows he can't help kind of thing you know because you might have been like well there's not much you can do because i know how to like google and i know like maybe he'd like he probably didn't know how to like research the clinics you should go to or what doctors or what health care but just it was this more it sounds

like to me just his his whole body language just his his lack of empathy in the situation where you wanted you wanted to feel his consideration for the stakes that you were both dealing with. And I feel like that's incredibly fair. And I don't think you have to know what's going on to recognize that your partner is stressed and to show that, hey, I'm here for you. What can I do to help? As opposed to like, yeah, whatever. It's not a big deal we'll get through it don't stress don't worry like no one makes someone worry more than telling them not to worry that's annoying so i think you definitely have a right to be frustrated any any any follow-ups or additions easy to feel and again i just want to reiterate what suzy said because this is such like

a scary situation to and also to go through this feeling alone while someone's sitting near you is even worse than probably doing it alone. And I think it's easy to think, oh, we have a casual relationship or because of that, you know, I don't get to have these expectations. But you could have met this guy last night. You could have had a one night stand at a bar and this could have happened. And probably a lot lot of guys I would hope a lot of guys would have risen to the occasion even if they didn't even know your last name like it has really nothing to do with what you've defined and what this situation is the right guy would have been more proactive been more helpful and unfortunately he just did not rise to the occasion which sucks

but it just kind of points to you of who he is and it really has nothing like like, I think he probably would have acted very similarly, even if you had defined things or if you were in a relationship, it just sounds like he's not that proactive. He's not doing what you wanted him to do in that moment. He's not meeting you there. Did he offer to take you to the clinic? Yeah, he did. But I said, I'd rather have a female accompany me. Okay. Well, I mean, he did do that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you did do that. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with everything y'all have said, like, for sure.

I think it says a lot about his character, though, that he wasn't, like, more helpful or more just considerate. Did he follow up afterward? Did he ask you how you were feeling? Yeah, I sent in a screenshot of the text messages i sent or i i texted him i got the iud and then i think like two hours later he's like how are you feeling and then is he aware of how uncomfortable it is probably not i don't even think most people know what yeah i mean i didn't dance for so yeah wow listen it's not your job to coach any guy up. It's just not. That being said, I do, it's just like, listen,

we have these conversations a lot on this show, right? And, you know, it's, the show is mostly listened to by women. It's very easy to be like, fuck him and blah, blah, blah. Like, yeah. And listen, like it does, it certainly is a reflection of, you know, character, I don't know, but certainly maturity. And I think that's fair to say. It's really up to you.

I mean, my point is, this aside, if you've been happy with everything else or you were interested in exploring other things, interested in exploring other things, I don't think, I think it would be hasty for you to just break things off without an explanation and just say, hey, you know, you got bad character because of how you handle this. Unfortunately, I think, and we were talking about this earlier, I don't think men are becoming more mature in their early to mid-20s. I think they're becoming less and less mature. I think we are expecting less and less of our younger generations when it comes to these types of topics, certainly men. And so while I don't think it's your job, I think it might be an opportunity for you to just sit down with him and just explain to him how that experience made you feel without

trying to make an accusation it's just like hey i want to talk about what happened like that was a lot for me and first of all like and again not only if you feel this way but some version of first i really like what we've had this has been enjoyable but that situation me. And I'd like to talk to you about it because like, I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Try to like use non-attacking language in terms of like, well, don't say like you did something that really bothered me. Like the situation bothered me and then kind of get into it.

Say like, well, like, listen, I've, I would have liked for you to do X, Y, or Z.

It would have been nice. Like it just, it frustrated me that you weren't doing this and see how he responds because there's a good chance if you do it in a way where you kind of explain the situation, the procedure, what it's like, if he doesn't go, oh my God, I I'm realizing now how much I dropped the ball in that situation. I'm realizing now how much I wasn't there for you. And I really hate, like when you put it in the context we're hearing it now, I'm wondering if he would have the same criticism of himself that we have for him. And there's a chance that he might.

And I think we do have to be willing to at least try to have these conversations with our potential partners. have to be willing to at least try to have these conversations with our potential partners. And one, it's good practice to communicate these types of awkward, frustrating situations that are bound to happen in every relationship. Our partners, the only guarantee we have is that they will disappoint us at times. He very much disappointed you here. And all we can do is see how we can communicate those frustrations and then see how they respond. If he gets defensive, if he gets accusatory in any way, if he's just like petty about it or just really disappointing in how he handles it, then I think you can start making more kind of bolder critiques on his character and whether he's like a future, like a potential real partner for you would be my two cents. I agree with that completely. Cause I do think, yeah, it could come down to a couple of things. It could come down to like expectations, which is something we talked about earlier. Like

maybe his expectations while, you know, having sex with a partner is like, oh, if this happens, like some people just make the assumption that someone is going to like get an abortion or plan. Or I mean, honestly, I'm going to be honest. I didn't know that plan B did not work if you were using like natural family planning methods and you were ovulating. I thought it prevented the sperm from attaching. So that's actually something I learned today. But maybe that was his thought process. Susie and I were very off. Yeah. We were talking before, like we were looking at your notes and we had we just kept looking at each other as you were explaining

we're like we did not know any of this. So he may have been unaware of like how serious it was and then also like you're like sacrificing a piece of your body now

like by getting an IUD like that's like something you didn't want to do. So I don't know. Yeah. I think it's smart like he might just be

unaware and probably hasn't had this situation before and obviously because you are casual you didn't have like a conversation about like what were to happen if we accidentally got pregnant like that's something that you don't normally have with a casual partner so yeah i think it's that's good advice to like bring up the conversation give context see gauge his reaction. And that will probably be more telling of his character than the fact that he was just chilling on his phone. Because maybe to him, he was like, oh, there's an easy fix to this. Because a lot of people feel very differently

about that whole topic. So maybe his perception and like lens of it all was just very different from yours. Or if he was like uncomfortable. And that's not to justify this as an acceptable response at all. Because like I think of so much what I'm getting from you is kind of like a sense of loneliness where it was really isolating going through this and you really could have used somebody who was there with you because it's like something that deals with like sex which is like typically very intimate for people and then like your body um and so I imagine it must have just been like so challenging like feeling so isolated alone and like oh how does this become only something i need to navigate and so not to excuse his behavior at all but i also wonder if part of it was just this

like i don't know what to do and i don't want to do something wrong so i'm just gonna kind of like retreat which again is like not supportive and it's so valid for you to want a partner who will show up but i think there's also maybe like the ignorance and like kind of fear that it might have instilled in him and I guess they're encouraging me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing because you guys don't have this like established emotional connection you're not like you don't even know if your boyfriend or girlfriend my guess is in that moment you you probably didn't say you probably didn't state your expectations as clearly as you might have wanted to in hopes that you probably were just observing him and seeing if he would step up, you know, kind of like, well, I'm not going to tell him what to do. I'm going to see what he does. And he didn't do anything.

And then you were probably disappointed with that, right? Definitely. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's, that's, listen, hookup culture, it's messy. There are risks involved, you know, type of thing. And part of the risks are when situations like this happen, there's not a lot of baseline or rapport with these people to really have the types of honest communication that are required to avoid feeling the way that you feel now. So, you know, are you still interested in this guy? I think so. I haven't seen him since that Wednesday last week um but we're supposed to see each other again today and i was hoping to kind of communicate my feelings

and how the situation felt for me yeah i mean it's always i've given this example a couple times the past couple weeks but how we communicate like, this is the type of one of those situations that like you have the best intentions that could turn into a fight, you know? And I'm guessing you hope that it won't and you're hoping for the best outcome. So just, you know, obviously you want to express yourself and you don't want to tiptoe around it, but just try to more like, Hey, can we talk about something? I want to express how i felt and i just like i really you know give them the give them the compliment first you know i like you kind of thing but i just i was i was a little frustrated by the other night and i just want to talk through

it because and maybe you're unaware of some things but like i just want to i don't want to feel like i can't talk to you about this stuff i mean and if you are having sex with someone you should be able to talk about this stuff like that's just the bare minimum so test his maturity level to talk about this type of intimacy and whether he can handle it and i hope i he really needs to be kind of my hope for him and for you is that as soon as you bring this up he's immediately like locked in very engaged and very like i fucked up i fucked up yeah because if he doesn't do that i wouldn't cut him much slack i agree yeah if you lay it out for him and explain these things to him because i agree with nick like give him the time an opportunity to do the

rise to the occasion i take a shot every time I've said that this call, but yeah. I agree with that. I think that after first hearing the story, I was like, oh, he's gone. Bye.

Yeah. And it's good you called in. Cause honestly, when I heard you say, you know, give the context, I was like, honestly,

yeah. Like maybe like as a woman, we have this experience and we know what it feels like to be like, oh my gosh, am I growing a baby? Like it's terrifying if you're not ready for it. And men don't necessarily have that particular experience. So I do think that was solid because it changed my opinion a little bit.

Yeah. Maybe just lead with kind of like the other night was really emotional for me and I wanted to talk about it. And I hope that you being vulnerable, like I just think in these situations, I have learned either if you just say you're being vulnerable or express an insecurity or just lead with your vulnerability, it diffuses the chances of a fight. So if you're just like, hey, that experience was really emotional for me, I want to talk about it. He should be focused on the fact that you've just kind of you were vulnerable to talk

about your your emotions and he should be receptive to that solid advice nick and go and go from there yeah it's it's very nuanced too because you know we want to expect more from our these from guys too but we don't necessarily have the infrastructure of like knowing one another like i feel like it's kind of the paradox of hookup culture is that on one hand it's awesome and it's liberating and it's freeing and there don't necessarily need to be these like strict order of events when it comes to developing closeness or intimacy with people. But conversely, it means that like you're engaging with this like level of intimacy without necessarily having that like emotional connection and like the stakes of when things

like, you know, in the one in a hundred chance where something does go wrong you're kind of left uh without in very uncharted waters for two people also maybe just have that conversation with him if like like hey man i get you're wearing a condom but maybe pull out before you climax and like make it clear yeah yeah for sure A condom is not like a shapeshifter. It's like a seatbelt. You don't drive like a fucking maniac just because you're wearing a seatbelt.

You still don't want to get in an accident. You will still die. It's like, I got a condom. Not condoms break. It's not a parachute. It doesn't just all encompass. I never trusted a condom in that department. Never trusted a condom in that department. Never trust a condom.

Never trust a condom. Use them, but don't trust them. I've seen some stuff happen. I've never finished with a condom on if she wasn't on birth control. Smart. Without removing myself from the situation. Thank you for clarifying. That's just nuts. That's smart. Without removing myself from the situation.

Thank you for clarifying. This is nuts. That's smart. This is kamikaze. Nuts, literal nuts. Anyways, this could be an opportunity for you guys to have a mature conversation around sex, around dating. Checking on what his maturity level is, his willingness to have these types of conversations. And then maybe this could open up the door for further conversations. If you continue to get to know each other and keep having sex around your expectations around sex and dating,

because it sounds like you weren't having a ton of these conversations. Most people aren't having these conversations and it's leading to stuff like this. So, and it, it sucks feeling like, you know, isolated and alone and, you know, like those, that's when you really need your partner a partner to really be there for you by your side and you know when we're hooking up without this emotional connection it's it it can be really awkward and a lot of i think bad behaviors and you know i guess we need to it's like again it's not your job but i think people man people are only getting better when someone's coaching them up or

communicating. Like paying it forward. Maybe you're paying it forward. One of the first things Nick gave me advice on when I started working for him, because I was like so over a guy, I was like, I'm done.

And he was like, you don't owe him anything. It's not your responsibility, but it could help him moving forward. And it could help the other women he meets down the road. If you illuminate the situation a bit so it's just like yeah decide for yourself it's not your job but we're trying to like better people out there and uh we gotta learn even better than you found them

leave them i always say that i always like the woods pick up that trash so well i mean now i can't get pregnant for eight years, so that's great. Wait, what? Well, you could get it taken out. That's true. It's just another... The IUD is in for a while. It's in there.

It stays in for eight years. Eight years? And you can't get pregnant? It's 99% effective. I do know someone that got pregnant with an IUD. There is, because it's intrauterine, there is a risk if you were to get pregnant that the pregnancy would develop in the fallopian tube and be an ectopic pregnancy, which has high risk of needing operation. But otherwise, it's one of the most, if not the most effective birth control options. So for you, like now you don't have to do the family.

Are you just going to stick with it? Well, you should still ovulate. It varies with women, but you should still ovulate with an IUD in place. It kind of just creates the uterus becomes inhospitable to sperm. So I will, I, I'm hoping I still ovulate and go through the, the natural hormones, but otherwise I might not. And I'm not experienced in three years. It is.

Yeah. I'm curious for you because I think so often, like we see like people with uteruses, like not necessarily knowing about their body in this high level way. Like I'm learning so much from you. My mom is an OBGYN and I'm still like way. I'm learning so much in this class. I'm learning too. My mom is an OBGYN and I'm still like, and I'm curious for you, like, because I think sometimes maybe it feels like a little bit intimidating for people to seek out or it's just like uncomfortable or scary. Like, I'm curious, like what kind of inspired you to like have such a high level understanding

of it? And like for other people who are maybe like, wait, I should really like get on this, like where you might suggest turning for resources. Yeah. I knew from when I became sexually active, I wanted to avoid hormones, but so that really just launched me into researching about other methods of contraception. I'm also in science, healthcare. So the, the means of understanding these things are there for me. Um, other, otherwise I think I wouldn't be as knowledgeable. All right. I want you to like write a little pamphlet or something. Well, we'd love an update. Thank you so much for your help.

Our pleasure. Good luck. Thank you for sharing. This is really informative and fun. Sorry you had to experience that, but I'm really curious how this conversation goes and if there's hope for him and this relationship. And you have every right to express these things to him despite the casualness of this relationship. I agree. Thank you. All right.

All right. Let us know. Take care. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Final thoughts, Susie. How do we want to close this out? It's always fun chatting with you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Final thoughts, Susie. How do we want to close this out? It's always fun chatting with you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I learned a lot today. I feel like there were some reoccurring themes of the day. Thoughtfulness.

Thoughtfulness. Consideration. Empathy. Introspection. Yeah. When she was telling her story, were you imagining how your exes might have responded in those situations yeah i mean not necessarily thinking about my exes but i was thinking like what would my

expectations be especially from a partner and i feel like i have had times where like i've been scared about something when it comes to my body or like not necessarily that situation but a similar situation and it's like i've had i've been disappointed situation. And it's like, I've been disappointed by people. And it's like, especially if it's like a partner that you see a future with or want to see a future with. Yeah, I mean, I would be, I probably would be disappointed by that, his reaction. And yeah, I would, my expectations for a future partner

would be a little bit like higher. But then it's good to hear your perspective to be like, and also as we learned through that story, it's like maybe there was just a lot of like misinformation or assumptions so yeah it's good that she's gonna like have the conversation and and give him the opportunity this conversation for is a big one for for them because i feel like she'll really find out you know i think yeah it's presumptuous i think to critique his character from the story we heard for them. Yeah. Because I feel like she'll really find out, you know. I think, yeah, it's presumptuous,

I think, to critique his character from the story we heard. I think we can critique his maturity level. I think how he responds to this conversation would be a more accurate, like,

how he handles that. If he's defensive and critical, then, you know, you suck. Totally. But it could easily

just be like, my hope for him is he feels real stupid yeah and and owns up to how much he dropped the ball right and just like acknowledges her feelings and is just like wow i didn't even realize and sometimes like that's you know that's life you just don't you're just unaware so you don't know that you needed to step up you know i think men young men specific specifically i know i was there are really out of tune with the emotions women can feel from like around their bodies changing around sex and and maybe possibly getting pregnant or having a miscarriage or anything in that department, I think men can be very aloof and just unaware

and misguided with their need to be there emotionally for their partners. I just, because I think men so easily disconnect and don't have that kind of residual emotional feelings because in some cases their bodies aren't changing or they don't have to think about it. It's very much out of sight, out of mind. And I think they just need to sometimes be made aware yeah

of that i agree even when she told her or we read the story she told it i'm not sure she said i was shaking like i was having like visual imagery of like what this is going to be like and i have been there i have like laid in bed at night and had like almost a panic attack thinking about something that was scaring me and with like in this realm in this world of like yeah your body and the changes and it's like it is a very frightening feeling so like as a woman to hear that story yeah my knee-jerk reaction is like oh this guy is like so unaware but he is 25 and yeah i'm not dating 25 year olds yeah you want more from them but, but there's an awareness. We have to figure out a way to...

Hopefully they're listening. Yeah, hopefully they're listening and they can learn something from this. Susie, always a pleasure chatting with you. Since you're moving to LA, I hope we can do more of it. Yeah. Again, everyone,

don't forget that Tara Schuster is with us tomorrow to talk all things Harry and Meghan. Plus, she's got a new book out. You're not going to want to miss Tara. She's an absolute delight. You're going to love her. I predict that many of you will think that she is an absolute incredible guest that we'll have to have back, just like Susie.

Thank you. But don't be afraid to tune in tomorrow. All things. Even if you go watch Harry and Megan tonight and then come back. It's on Netflix. Also, Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday still available. Make sure to check that out. Did you read it?

I'm like halfway through it right now. I actually have notes in my phone in case you ever want to discuss it. About my thoughts. Not like thoughts on the book. Thoughts on myself. I learned, oh. Anything you want to plug for the book? I mean, how we saw the book. Oh yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot. I mean, I, I really related to like waiting for the right person and feeling like a little bit old. Like that was kind of at the beginning of it where you were like, do I want to wait till 40 if it means waiting for the right person? I literally was thinking this like two months ago. And then I read it in your book and I was like, yeah, I mean, ultimately,

it's worth the wait if it's for the right person. I realized you said everybody's pretty much a fuckboy at some point, almost. And not necessarily. That's like, you know. I think if you're participating in hookup culture, you've been someone's fuckboy. And I really fought with that momentarily as i read it and i was like i've never been a fuck boy i've never been a fuck boy then i realized i fuck boyed a fuck boy and then he fuck boyed me yes a triangle it's like the spider-man pointing at each other i think which is totally possible i because i didn't realize i was doing it but i was like setting boundaries into making it like a situationship. And I was like, I don't want to date you. Like, I don't trust you. You're bad news, whatever.

And then we were like committed, like we were setting like safe parameters for safe sex kind of a thing. But then he was not. And then my feelings got hurt though, because I was like, wow, I actually started to like you, but you're out here doing all that. But then I was like, but I fuckboyed him to start. I really did. Like I was like allowing it to be like a situationship even though I was like, I'm never going to date you.

But I will get attached to you and screw myself over. I will get attached to you and then feel bad. I will become obsessed. Yeah. And then have my feelings hurt when you fuckboy me back.

So I learned a lot about myself. Like, oh, I didn't realize I'm, yeah, I'm toxic too, I guess. We all have it. Yeah, we all have our toxic traits. Anyway, Susie, we could talk and talk and talk,

but I got to let you go. Don't forget to send those questions at asknick at castme.com. Cast with a K for all things Ask Nick. We're still looking for that situation ship

that wants to come on together and shitter get off the pot kind of conversation. Fun. Or a mediation. We're still doing those. If you want to call in with your partner,

we'll help you break up with someone if you want or just helping you figure out whether you should stay or go. Really anything. It's all anonymous. So don't worry about that. Send those questions.

And tomorrow, get ready. Allie shines as she... It's Allie Super Bowl. It's Allie Super Bowl as we talk the royal family, Meghan and Harry. If you ever wanted to see me at 4 a.m. watching a royal wedding, you can now. Also, I have me re-watching it on YouTube.

I don't get why she's just... Meghan, I want to get why. You can now. Also, I have me re-watching it on YouTube. I don't get why she's just. Megan, I want to like her. You don't? We'll get into it. Yeah, we'll get into it. Bye. Bye.