The Viall Files - E515 Harry and Meghan Recap with Tara Schuster

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by author, playwright, and entertainment executive, Tara Schuster! We start things off by talking about gratitude, dealing with your family over the holidays, AI-generated art, and if robots will take over the world. We then get into the recap itself, diving into the first volume of episodes, covering episodes one through three of Harry and Meghan! We get into the recap, talking about getting really invested because of this documentary and understanding why England cares so much about the crown. We talk about Harry being sensitive because of his mother, Harry addressing his past mistakes in a genuine way, discerning if some of Meghan’s statements are genuine or not, and analyzing Harry and Meghan’s first few dates. We get into wanting more dirt, questioning if you should profit off the brand of the Royal Family, and how this documentary compares to the Oprah interview. We then wonder why they’re making a tell all, the media’s focus on Meghan’s family, and getting into the situation with Meghan’s father. We also talk about being high character in a low character environment, trying to do good with the privilege you have, and working to heal your wounds. We then bring on our Texting Office Hours caller who is struggling after getting ghosted by a friend of ten years over a small miscommunication. After recognizing this is a repeating pattern, she wonders the best way to establish a new system of communication in order to form a relationship that isn’t about trying to win. We then close by talking about Tara’s upcoming book! “We’re above this, but here’s the tea.” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  If you would like to get some advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line!  Be sure to check out my sports radio show Fandemonium, Wednesdays @ 3PT / 6 ET on Amazon's Amp app. Click the link to download Amp using my code NICKVIALL https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amp-host-live-radio-shows/id1586403838 To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp: Learn more and save 10% off your first month at http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALLFILES. Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Away Travel: This Holiday season gift Away at http://www.AwayTravel.com/viall. Manscaped: Get 20% Off and Free Shipping by going to http://www.Manscaped.com/viall. Happy New Year to your Balls! Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @taraschuster See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of The Vile Files Going Deeper Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda. Ladies, how you doing? Good. It's a good day. We talked about the Royals. We did talk about the Royals. Tara Schuster is with us, an absolutely delightful guest, wonderful writer, author of a very popular book,

Buy Yourself the Fucking Lilies. She has a new book coming out and she is here to help us break down all things Royals and the Meghan Harry doc. We have a lot to say, so we will spare you with a longer intro. I think we'll just maybe get right into it. Also, don't forget that next week, Going Deeper, Fortune Feimster is with us to break down the other three episodes of the Meghan and Harry documentary and whatever other topics come up. I'm sure we'll have a lot more to share. Also, Fortune has a new comedy special out on Netflix. Make sure to check that out if you haven't already. You know, another thing we need to talk about? We don't have time. Have either of you watched the Casey Anthony documentary? It's on Peacock and a lot of people.

But the one who you forgot. I know who Casey Anthony is. Can I get your login? Yeah, I'll get you guys all my app logins for the future stuff. But yeah, she did that shit. I don't know if you watched it. I haven't watched it. It was hard to finish because... Anyway, we'll get it. she did that shit I don't know have you watched it it's I haven't watched it but

it was hard to finish because anyway we'll get it if you guys let us know if you guys are watching it too and how much time

we should spend on it because I watched it and certainly I have a lot to say but I don't know how many people are watching it because it was you know

feels very 2010 you know her story is wild anyway so yeah let's let's get to Feels very 2010, you know. Her story is wild. Anyway, so yeah, let's get to Tara, Harry, and Megan. What a trio. What a trio.

Tara, welcome. Thank you. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for coming. Excited to have you. I've heard so many great things about you. Oh, likewise. And we wanted to break down the Harry and Meghan series. And I thought,

what a great person to have. Someone who can just keep up with us in our discourse. Deliver the writerly insights. Deliver the goods. And so we're excited to have you, excited to get into it. And how have you been otherwise? I've been really good. I feel like this is the first holiday season where I haven't been in a crisis mode. And I feel really emotionally regulated, which I'm just like, this is the biggest deal in the world. You know, like, wow.

Huge deal. I mean, this took work. This took years and years of hard work. How did you get to this place and what was going on before? Oh man, trial and error. You know, I don't know if you guys relate, but like when you have a difficult family situation, I get amnesia every holiday season because I'm like, oh my God, it's going to be so great. I love family. I love celebration. Completely forgetting that I locked myself in my cousin's going to be so great. I love family. I love celebration. Completely forgetting that I locked myself in my cousin's bathroom to cry during Thanksgiving like two years ago. So I got

real. I was just like, I need to be prepared. And it really has helped. I don't want to jinx myself because obviously we still have Christmas. How was Thanksgiving? Amazing. Okay. Because you just were prepared for it. You felt better equipped. I was prepared. I had run many scenarios in my head of what I would do if something from the past happened. So I'm really proud. I'm so happy. Is this kind of following the lines of back in the day when you know we first had like a new year's eve party we'd like let's have the best new year's eve and then you had like more realistic expectations of new year's eve we're like yeah it was family i think you get to a point in your life it's like i can love my family and hate them at the same time i mean i hate them but like not glorify it

in a way and not be utterly disappointed when things don't go the way I hope. Is it a little bit like resetting expectations? Yeah. And I also think like exactly what you're saying that two things can both be true. Yeah. That like it's a little bit of a struggle and I love them. But one does not cancel out the other. Totally.

So just the ambivalence. Like I'm just chiller with ambivalence, I guess, is another part of it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I came in with a hot answer. What are your Christmas plans? My dad and I are going to a hotel on the beach to have a little staycation together. And we haven't gone on a vacation together for like, I don't know, 10 years, seven years. So I'm very excited to see how this pans out. Interesting.

Just you and dad? Just me and dad. My sister's in med school. So she'll, whatever two hours she might have free, she'll come. But yeah, just me and dad. And where are you guys going to go? Like Lowe's.

It's a hotel on the beach. Yeah, just local. Keeping it simple. it's a hotel on the beach oh yeah just local keeping it simple nice nice place keeping expectations low i love low expectations it's the best it really is great you can only you always criticize me for being like yeah whatever it'll be fine you're like aren't you more excited we'll see i don't know i like a great way to have fun it's like you're pleasantly surprised all the time or if it just sucked you're like yeah i thought so yeah i feel like the only counterpoint to that is that sometimes the anticipation is part of the fun it doesn't always apply because sometimes i think it is very very necessary

to like keep the expectations like low and reasonable but i find sometimes like especially if it's seeing a friend who lives in a different country and i get to see them like once every two years like i will will have tickets to a music festival and I will spend months of time like really anticipating and getting super hyped about it so even if it does fall short like I've had all these months of enjoyment leading up to it I guess but anytime I fantasize or visualize something and I'm excited about it and almost never lives up to expectations. I mean, particularly this time of year, like you mentioned New Year's Eve, whoever has a good New Year's Eve, it's like on par with what you thought it would be. I don't think I ever have. I give up. I just give up. Because

what is it supposed to be? It's overpriced alcohol. It's tighter rooms rooms it's more expensive ubers like what is it that is exciting i don't know i mostly feel bad about myself on new year's eve well somehow i'm always single on new year's eve i can have be in a relationship the whole rest of the year but right when it comes to new year's eve i'm like cool this is really fun are you the one or are they the one usually or there's a mix of to break up yeah usually me it's usually your your jumping ship but i mean yes and it's problematic you want to talk about it i mean you've got such good dating advice i've been like uh reading your book and really yeah i'm so impressed is it legit well it's so legit it's so relatable and it's like funny i really like your book i really appreciate it and you are an excellent

writer as well thank you uh you are you have a second book coming out yeah you already have a an amazing book give the fucking lilies the Fucking Lilies. What does that title mean? So I feel like you guys will relate, but I grew up in, maybe not this part, but I grew up in a neglected, psychologically abusive household. It was really difficult, and it basically left my childhood thinking I was worthless, walking down the streets with this diss track just constantly like,

you are unlovable. Nobody cares about you. You're ugly. Because that really was the message. I wasn't crazy. That was the message I got from my childhood. And so this would really come out when I'd go to Trader Joe's, which I love Trader Joe's. We got fans in the house. Thank you. No. She is. A virgin. He's a Trader Joe's's a traitor to a virgin i've been there i just don't get it i feel like we need to get you some snack backs the parking's atrocious that's true and none of like my go-to comfort foods are there i have to be i'm not it's a me prom i'm not an adventurous eater for one and so like i don't know if i want if i want a certain type of chip i don't know i just how's their oj i don't drink it i don't drink orange juice so i don't know at all no wow it's not like

you think everyone just drinks orange juice i feel like yeah oj is kind of like a i couldn't tell you the last time i drank orange juice really yeah I feel like it's like you're staying at an Airbnb with your friends over the weekend and you do the breakfast shop and you're like, I'm going to get some OJ. Totally. I guess, but like I've really been spoiling myself for some freshly squeezed.

So to kind of like tie it together, your treat for yourself is orange juice. Morning, yeah. Just let me make this transition. Okay, I like it. I love orange. Thank you, yeah. But I go to Trader Joe's just let me make this transition I'm going to try but I go to Trader Joe's

I'd see these lilies in their weird bucket of water and I'd look at them and I'd be like they're $6.99 I can't afford that and even if I could they're just going to die why would I do something that's so self indulgent no way

and as I kind of recovered from my childhood and reparented myself, like figured out what I needed nurturing on, little by little, I'd go to Trader Joe's and be like, wait a minute. At a minimum, I'm worth these $7 lilies. Like this is not a big deal. This is going to bankrupt me. It's just like a nice thing I'm allowed to have. And so that's where the title of the book comes from it's kind of treating yourself from time yeah and not like a luxury vacation to hawaii which totally would be nice but i find that the little basics if you

can make them into a luxury just heightens the whole quality of your life like yeah like like giving yourself something to look forward to every day or just like a pat on the back or just a small win. Yeah. I love that. You know, one of the big things I did was I got rid of all my socks that had holes in them. So now when I go to TSA, I'm like, try me.

Like I know these socks are good. Like I'm just the basics, you know? I'm really taking care of them. That would make me feel good. As someone who often wears mismatched socks. I look shabby in the feet department. I'm a disgrace when it comes to like taking my shoes off. It's really an embarrassing moment for me.

And if I'm wearing, actually, that's a benefit of Cindy. Cindy's a family friend who was a house... House manager. She's my house manager. She was an assistant, a professional assistant her whole life. And I don't know how old she is. She could be 70-ish. She could be 80.

She could be 90. I don't know. But she's an active woman who's like my housekeeper. And she's always there buying me shit she thinks I need. She's like my LA mom in a way. But I pay for it. And one thing she buys me is this shit ton of socks. Like the basic things that I neglect for myself.

But it does like, it definitely adds quality to my life. So like, I guess Cindy is the way, I got Cindy so she can give me all these little things that I do appreciate. Cindy is your self-care. Cindy is my self-care. Cindy's my self-care. Yeah. It's really nice. Every once in a while she does get on my nerves though. She's always like, you need this.

And I'm like, no. And then we'll argue. She'll argue with me. She'll fight back. And I'm like, I don't want, no. She's like, I'm buying it anyways. I'm like, ugh. She does that a lot.

In addition to kind of like the physical things like lilies and socks, have you found that there's mental habits where you've kind of made swaps that have been like kinder to yourself on a regular basis? Oh, yeah, big time. One of them is I try not to drink a lot at late at night because I love journaling so much, like journaling free, basically free. And one of the most therapeutic things I've ever done. Because you really, you can decide your narrative. You can better see, you know, even what's going on. And I find that self-awareness is like step one in any mental health, I hate the word journey, but mental health journey, air quotes, just even knowing what is going on, like what's happening

with me. It's really, really helpful to write it in a journal so my it sounds weird but like my whole life a little bit is geared towards making sure i can do that every morning you journal every morning every morning how long uh 20 minutes so it's like three pages 20 minutes and i do a gratitude list as a part of that. Love that. Yeah. It's, I mean, those like little things that are free can completely change your life. They just sound lame when you first hear it. Like, no way. Make a gratitude list.

Yeah. No, it really is. It's so dumb. Okay, Los Angeles. Like, how is that going to, and I also think like a lot of us when we're in a tight spot, we don't think there's anything to be grateful for you know we're like how why would i be grateful for this hardship like this sucks but by doing it again you can like flip your own perspective and narrative yeah well i love that i i'm a big believer in that stuff

yeah there's there's those little things that we can be grateful for all the time or just grateful that we don't have to deal with whatever it is we didn't want to deal with. Totally. You know, being done with people or things is a great thing to be grateful for. Yeah. You know. I mean, the fact we all woke up this morning.

Grateful. Major win. Like, we all won already. We got here. Hallelujah. Here we are. Here we are. We have you here.

I'm grateful for that. We go on and on. We're going to have a whole episode on gratitude. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Nothing makes you realize the value of therapy like spending time with your family. The holidays can be a really stressful time for a variety of reasons. And if tensions are running high, if you're being reminded of some of the things from your childhood that might have given you a little bit of broken brain down the line. Yeah.

You have to deal with that childhood trauma every holiday season. Think of better help. Maybe you have a big career decision to make. You want to bounce ideas off. Or maybe you're just dealing with some, like, unexpected anxiety or some money problems. Or, you know, you just want someone to, you know, talk to that, you know that isn't part of your inner circle and comes without judgment. Well, that's what therapy is all about. And BetterHelp is helping people connect with licensed therapists like never before. And the best part is they make it just so easy,

convenient to do that because so much, I think the big kind of barrier of people getting therapy, obviously cost plays a role and then convenience is the other one. And online therapy with BetterHelp is more affordable than in-person therapy. And they make it super easy and convenient because they're working with so many therapists. They are connected with over 3 million licensed therapists. I mean, listen, if you're listening to this and you've constantly told yourself, I should get therapy, we should get therapy, I should do therapy, like just check it out. Go to betterhelp.com slash vile files and just take a gander at the website. You just take a quick quiz

to talk about what you're looking for therapy, what you're struggling with, what your needs are, and they will help connect you with a licensed therapist. As the world's largest therapy service, BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available 100% online.

Plus, it's affordable. There's no waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Learn more and save 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash vile files. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan, you're forced to compromise. But what if you didn't have to? What if you could get reliable service without a contract and save money? Introducing Total by Verizon, a new no-contract, no-credit-check carrier for you and your family with plans starting at just $30 per month on America's most reliable 5G network. Sacrifice nothing, experience everything. Total by Verizon is available at totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Based on first place rankings and RootMetrics

first half 2022 5G assessments of 125 metros. Experiences vary, not an endorsement. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy

award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple.

I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple.

I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine.

Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Before we get into the Royals, have you been following the AI stuff? Oh, yeah. Big time. We, some of my friends and peers have been posting those kind of glow up things, which I find to be like the the new ick of the internet nevertheless we thought we would do it for everyone in this room whoa so we have some of you oh oh man yeah first we're gonna start with nicholas we're gonna start

with me yeah okay that's not bad now he was like, don't ever post this. We did my girlfriend too. And then I showed her hers. She goes, oh. I'm like, yeah, she's putting that up. Am I wearing a tank top? No, you're like a gladiator. A Jesus robe. Yeah.

You're like a gladiator. To me, it was giving the Lord. To me, it was giving like you're at the Coliseum fighting for your life. I mean, I guess ultimately this just looks like a picture of me. Yeah. But a saintly one. Saintly one. Saintly one. There he is. Some fun hair.

Like that would be something fun to like put on the wall. That? Yeah. Why that? I don't know. It's fun. It's vibrant. It's bright.

Moving into Natalie. No, that's my girlfriend. Yeah. I just liked how Natalie's turned out. Oh, wow. Yeah. She turned out amazing. Yeah.

Looks like a goddess. Woo! Tara. What? That's a great one. What do we think that looks like? Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I need that. I need that. Oh, Tara, I have like 50 of you. I'll get it. I'll give them to you after the session. That one is one of my more favorite things I've ever seen. That deserves a shrine a very kind of um she definitely disjournaled yes yes like that's an enlightened woman the goddess of enlightenment

she's like nothing will bother me right now yeah a very sense of peace and tranquility right there that could be framed as well yeah art i don't know what's happening with mine oh my god no no no that's nice yeah i feel like you're a noir star oh yeah like a classic hollywood uh you know yeah starlet also nice yeah i don't quite look like you but i know mine didn't i don't quite look like you, but... I know, mine didn't. I don't feel like mine really... I have some. This time you sent me. Yeah. Amanda. I look like I'm crying in all of them.

These are the ones where I at least look like I'm crying and I still look like I'm crying. Fun fact. How do they know that you kind of have a hippie vibe? How do they know that? Do you think I have a hippie vibe? You have a... I'm not hippie, but...

No, I'm honored. You're more of a... Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know,. You're more of a, yeah, like, you know, Allie's more the. The what? The what,

Nicholas? You know, the, you would shop at Aritzia. And Amanda would go to a thrift store. All right. All right.

Am I getting myself in trouble? No. No, I shop at Aritzia. Last time. Am I getting myself in trouble? No. No. I shop at Aritzia. Last time I was at Aritzia, Natalie Joy was there. I'm sure you guys would shop at both. You're not in trouble. Final Amanda.

She also dyes her hair. Yeah. I thought you, this is a nice one. No, I like that one. That's the one I think where I objectively do not look like I'm crying for once. I find it creepy that the computers, the AI can actually like do this, or you can say there's one called Dali

where you could say, I want to see the moon in the style of Georgia O'Keeffe. And then it will just do that. It like full on makes a Georgia O'Keeffe painting. Like that freaks me out because that means, oh man, this thing's creative like for real cool no it's what's the chat gb gpt is it called yeah that's we asked it right before you came in a question and the question was I showed you the answer already but it was I'm thinking about breaking up with my partner over the holidays

am I an asshole and the answer it shot quickly, it's never easy to end a relationship and it's understandable that you might be feeling unsure about your decision. Ultimately, the decision to break up with your partner is up to you. It's important to do what feels right for you. that breaking up is the best decision for you, then it's okay to go through it. Just be sure to handle the situation with care and respect and to communicate openly and honestly with your partner about your decision. It's never okay to be cruel or hurtful in a breakup, so be sure to keep in mind as you navigate this difficult situation.

A computer came up with that in seconds. That's scary. So loving. Loving. Tender. Yeah, a real warmth coming off of that one. I'm terrified of the future in technology. My only saving grace about AI is I feel like they're saying like, oh, AI is going to replace writers. But nowadays, like you have to do so much more than be a writer. You know, you have to be on social media. You have to go do things. How is AI going to do that? I don't know. So I feel like I'm safe for maybe another 10 years

because like, is AI going to get on TikTok? Probably not. Like how would that even work? Part of me wants to like, how do I figure out how to use it to my advantage? And then also when it comes to technology,'m just gonna try to keep up until it ruins the world you know i don't know what else can we do we might as well join along and just arm ourselves as much as we can before they before they just clean out the human race that's like the end game on that wavelength yeah because the ai is going to be like oh we don't need you anymore you're just a nuisance. Bye. Like, you guys are bad to each other.

Like, we've seen this movie before, and it's not wrong. We know the ending. I didn't like the ending. Unless we could all band together and, you know, find unity and fight the AI, which given what the state of the world is now. I don't think it's going to... We have to come together? Oh my god. We have to put our differences aside

and have some healthy discourse? That'll never happen. I don't know. But yeah, I wanted to... I'm never going to post those silly things that people are posting. I just think it's hysterical because they're definitely glow-ups and people

can't help themselves by like, I mean I wouldn't post it, but it looks so good. AI is so weird, right? How pretty do I look at this? Look at my flawless skin and huge eyes. I'm beautiful. My arms really look like that, right? I have big arms like that, right? Am I going into

battle? Yes. Every day. I could be a superhero for sure i'm gonna bring that into like my next audition or something literally wait tara do you have any questions for the chat gbt while we have it pulled up oh what would you like to know i want to know how is my first date going to go next weekend i'm sorry but i'm not able to predict the future or provide specific information about your first date. I am a large language model trained by open AI, and I don't have the ability to access personal information or make predictions. It's still going.

Anything else? First off, what good is AI if it can't answer that question? Oh, that's perfect. Yeah. AI or artificial intelligence has the potential to be very powerful and useful technology. It can be used to automate tasks, improve decision making and to help businesses and organizations operate more efficiently and effectively. I don't know how we're going to automate tasks because I've just been

sitting over here plugging in questions. Anyways, the future is now and the end is near. What do you, well, I'm curious for both of you, like before we get to all the Harry and Megan stuff, like is there an area of whether it's emotional intelligence or like just a social role? Like what is something, a service that humans provide to one another that you fundamentally believe that nothing could ever, like no form of technology could ever replicate? Like empathy, compassion. I was going to say compassion, but now I don't know because the text you read was super compassionate. And compassionate.

And it was like, hey, don't be a dick. Yeah. You know? In a nice way. In a nice way. You have the right, but just be tender. Yeah. It was literally like,

it makes sense that you might have trepidation or fear about this. Like it's built in there that was far more empathetic than a lot of friends giving breakup advice totally like fuck them just like end it like they don't deserve anything you know ai doesn't project projecting yeah that's the thing i think it's more back qualities that are going to be reactive tell me you're gonna freak out the way i do no that's a good point it's more back qualities that are going to do it. Yeah, it can be reactive. Hey, tell me you're going to freak out the way I do. No.

That's a good point. It's like all the good things, but why would AI suck? Why would it go out of its way to put you down? Maybe you treated it poorly, which people do. This is a thing. My ex-boyfriend, the way he would talk to Alexa ended up being a problem in our relationship because he would walk into the room and be like,

Alexa, like screaming at Alexa. And I was like, wait, what? That like, just because it's inanimate, your first thing is to scream at it. Like, you know, it really became an issue. Really? Did you like foreshadow how he might be a father? Totally.

That's how he would talk to something that was defenseless and, you know. Totally. He had total power over. And it was just an immediate like Lord of the Flies primitive anger that came out. I agree. That's a huge red flag. My boyfriend did that and I cut that shit right out. I was like, don't talk to her that way.

Exactly. Sometimes you have to be stern with Alexa. I say thank you to Alexa and Siri every time. One, because I think for like an internal thing. Does it say you're welcome? Does she? Yeah. I call her she. Mine's Australian

so she'll be like, don't mention it. I call it a she. Alexa. Mine's Australian, so she'll be like, don't mention it. Or like, no problem. You've given it an Australian accent? Yeah. You can do that? Oh, yeah. You can make ways sound like Cookie Monster if you want. It was real fun in college.

I was like, next exit. Get your luggage on with Away. You need an Away suitcase. If you don't have an Away suitcase, you're not traveling correctly. Many of us have been at the airport and had that just luggage just burst open at the seams. It's a tragedy. Just it's a tragedy. No one likes it.

You feel embarrassed. And it always happens when you're running late, when you're trying to when you don't have the time to do it. It's a nightmare. And just don't don't experience that ever again. Just get away. It lasts forever. They'll give you a lifetime warranty, literally. I used my carry-on for Thanksgiving,

packed it to the brim because I needed a bunch of different outfits. And then I had my huge puffer coat and I didn't really want to wear it around the airport because I was going to get hot and it's just like, whatever. I don't need it back in L.A. And I thought to myself, there's no way this fits in my Away suitcase.

It's already filled to the brim. It's a carry-on. Let's be honest. And yet, it fit. It fit. My favorite thing about Away is that they have the laundry bag. That is so helpful to me, especially like on a longer trip if you have multiple stops, like keeping your clean clothes and like your dirty underwear separate.

Game-changing. I also really appreciate the charging port for a phone so you can charge on the go. Because let's be honest, sometimes it is a bloodbath for the outlets at the airports. So avoid all of that. It's not just about how sleek and awesome the Away suitcase looks. It's genuinely so functional. It's incredible. And they also, again, have a 100-day trial on everything Away makes.

Take the product on the road, travel with it, live with it, get lost with it for 100 days. And if you decide it's not for you, you can return any non-personalized item for a full refund during that period. No ifs, ands, or asterisks. Away offers free shipping and returns on any orders within the contiguous US, Europe, Canada, and Australia, except for personalized products. This holiday season gift Away at awaytravel.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is awaytravel.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Shave those balls. Shave the balls. Trim your tree and trim your balls.

Chances are your horny partner is going to be like, hey, babe, how about like, you know, all I want for Christmas is like, you know, like some, you know, some whatever you want. Whatever you guys call it. Some sexual. And you're going to be down. And all of a sudden, you're going to go down there. And then it's going to be like just a whole safari. Like get with the safari. We don't want a safari.

A Christmas safari. Anyways, everything that Manscaped has when it comes to the male grooming department is fantastic. Their Lawn Mower 4.0 is the leader of their Performance Package 4.0. Well, as I call it, it's the performance package for your package. Engineered the ultimate groin and body trimmer by focusing on the intelligent functionality and an incredibly comfortable grooming experience. Stop them from using your razors and your trimmers because they are, or their bare trimmers.

Gross. Because they are. They have an amazing, their body wash is great. Their underwear is fantastic. A man is wearing their deodorant. So there's that. I am. This exact moment I'm wearing their deodorant.

And do I smell? Nope. Fresh as daisy over here. It's great for everybody. So get the man in your life some Manscaped. That's right. The new Persevere body wash from Manscaped solves all three of the perfect additions to your daily grooming routine. But in the shower, this body

wash has a light woody scent and is infused with aloe vera and sea salt to keep your skin feeling clean, nice, and moisturized. Get 20% off and free shipping by going to manscaped.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's 20% off with free shipping by going to manscaped.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's 20% off with free shipping by going to manscaped.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Happy New Year to your balls. Let the ball drop. Let the ball drop. Speaking of exit.

Yeah, Megan and Harry left the Ritz. And now we've got a documentary series on it. Great episode. Well, Allie, you being the resident expert, how do you want to kick this off? I know. Because obviously three episodes, we kind of covered a lot. There's still a lot more to get into of four through six. So I don't know if it makes more sense to kind of talk about the biggest moments throughout

as opposed to just starting and going. Well, maybe we should just like what we bring to this conversation for my ally the expert she's been following the royals for years she knows everything she's the encyclopedia uh she's our you know well she's an in-house expert myself i am someone who hasn't paid much attention to the royal family i've seen one season of The Crown, I think. Maybe two. I don't know. It lost me. But yeah, you know,

I remember when Princess Diana died. I'm familiar with them. I've closely, like loosely followed them. And I watched this documentary and became very invested in these takes. Like I get how it's just a really, it's an amazing reality TV show because that's all it is. I have followed almost in,

I don't want to say hate watch because I don't hate them, but like I just want to see what's next, even if sometimes I don't enjoy it. But I think I was a TV executive for a long time. So I think what I bring to it is just like my critique entertainment wise, but

also as someone who writes about mental health. Those are the two where I feel like. What about you, Amanda? I bring in a fierce loyalty to Meghan Markle because she also went to Northwestern. Interesting. Fun fact. So that is my real, I have not followed them closely at all. I'm just going to say I'm biased because

of that. You're dignifying your bias for Meghan Markle. And it's going to come out. That's fine. Yeah. No. And I find, we were talking about this before we started. People are very passionate about this. Nellie and I got into it last night a little bit while watching it.

You know, she did not agree with my take. And she just told me to shut up. And let her enjoy the show. And yeah, it was, people are heated with this. I don't know. Ultimately, I guess I just want to start by saying, I think Harry and Meghan are very much in love. They deserve to be happy. It's like from a human side, like good for them, whatever. Get your bag, side, like good for them, whatever. Get your bag, get your money, whatever. Tell your story. I have no personal problem with it. It gets totally fine. But I was in London for the first time this summer. I only bring that up because it was fascinating talking to the locals, you know, the black cabs who are are like great tour guides and they were like talking

about just like the monarchy and like what it means to them and how it's a symbol it's like it's you know we have weird things like fireworks and bald eagles and bald eagles and like we love that shit as americans and like they have the crown and like to people like me who like don't get it like you know it's like a made-up title at this point with a lot of like questionable history but like whatever man like to each their own to each their own that gets them excited fine and I I'm watching this and I just like I so I kind of see both sides but like ultimately I think for me it started off when the when it first started my biggest critique of Harry and Meghan is more the execution of how they went about it you know because ultimately even the trailer like

can we all agree this was like their this is a tell-all it was a tell-all right i totally i mean they explicitly say multiple times we are telling our side yeah and so when you tell your side that's it's like a pr move right you're you want people to empathize with you you want people to see your side you want You want people to see your side. You want to like add your context, your truth, your story. Okay. But like their biggest, it started off by them talking about how,

a lot of the discussions was them critiquing the press and the media and attention and them trying to talk about how much they want their privacy and things like that. And I'm just like, okay, like a Netflix documentary that everyone's going to talk about

is an interesting move when it comes to like privacy and like removing yourself from the equation. I don't know. It's like, and like the fact that they made like an estimated $100 million off this. Again, get your, I don't care. I have no staking at all.

Also, I just pulled up Harry's book deal because Spare, his book is coming out in January, I believe. And it's, I think, an estimated 35 million pounds, which is about $44 million. $44 million. Yeah, whatever. Either way. So like combining the two, I'm like, this is a hell of a couple of months for these two. But it's interesting when you think about it, because it seems like if you talk to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong for any Brits out there listening to this. But yeah, this is a symbol for them. And my understanding is they see the royal family and the people in this role. It's like it's a role of servitude in a way. Like, yeah, you get to be king and queen

and prince and princess, and you get to be these people, but there is a cost. And that cost is to be like a spokesperson and a statesman and do all these appearances and kind of have this weird relationship with the media. And it's like their brand. And it seems like their brand.

And it seems like the criticism for Harry and Meghan from that side of the aisle is, you're basically, you're taking our story, you're taking our brand and you're selling it the way you want to. And you're making a shit ton of money without having to do the obligations and the responsibilities that say your brother, William and your sister-in-law are

just you know Kate um and I kind of get that I kind of understand where it's kind of like I don't know it's hard it's hard to watch two very rich privileged people in the most beautiful house I've ever seen unbelievable what it's like a Nancy Meyers film on speed. Yeah. Every so much cashmere everywhere. She had to tow cashmere. The best of there's three arches behind Megan and a lot of her talk to us where it's just like the ocean expanse, you know, so I can understand why maybe some people are haters because it's really hard to relate to that. On the other hand, I really felt like I understood Harry's point of view more and that it's more understandable in the context of Princess Diana. Because you can, I hate the word trigger because I feel like it's overused, but I can completely see why he would be triggered if his mom died by paparazzi.

Totally. Like I can 100% understand why he would have a different take and want to protect Megan in the way he couldn't protect his mom. Yeah, I totally get that. Yeah, I really do. I know a lot of people find Megan to be not Natalie and certainly not Amanda, Megan to be not Natalie and certainly not Amanda. But I have no real, I have really no opinion of her in a sense.

But I get, she does some cringy things. The curtsy. Yeah. The curtsy. I want to defend the curtsy. Okay. Because I thought she was just making fun of herself. Like it was a self-effacing joke about, I don't know what to do. Yeah.

Not, or maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't read it as a slam against the English and people. Yeah, I agree with that. No, no, no. I agree. I don't think it was meant to be. Because they do, and they talked about it in the Oprah interview, they still maintained a very good relationship with Queen Elizabeth. And I just, it was an awkward moment, I think, because of Harry's reaction. And then people are like, nothing. It's like, there wasn't even a laugh. Like there was just,

that was the awkward part of him being like. I don't think she's very funny. And she tries to be funny. I don't know if either of them are very funny. And like, there was a time where she was like, oh, that was a good joke, you know, know to harry like maybe they're just not funny which is fine you know i think it's just like it was obviously you know they self-produced this it seems like they had a lot of creative control they made a ton of money and it obviously just opens the door for criticism i mean they they totally i agree like i I found me like relating to hair not relating but understanding Harry from that and like I mean also like the guy he served in the armed forces for 10 years like I had no idea I was pretty fucking impressed by that a guy who grew up as the prince and I don't like I've heard rumors that his dad's never tied his own shoe or some shit like that and he's like you know what I'm gonna fight in war yeah war I mean say what you want but like that is a

fucking like impressive yeah choice that he made to try to give back and serve his country and you know he's got all my respect for that for sure I also thought it was I really respected the way he addressed like the controversy about him dressing as a Nazi and like talking about how he met with rabbis after the fact to like kind of educate himself. And it rung true as kind of that feels like that is the procedure now when people are called out for doing things that are like hateful, insensitive, ignorant, is like kind of this like I have to like reflect and learn. And I feel like this controversy came before there was such a clear playbook about that and it seems like he still did the right

thing so to speak and the fact that he was like willing to acknowledge and call it out really made me respect him yeah he said he went to berlin and spoke to a holocaust survivor as well to speaking to rabbi he seems like the kind of guy who actually follows through with the work that he needs to do. I was so impressed by him. He was talking about bias and how he needs to unlearn things and relearn. But he doesn't come off as virtue signaling or faking it in some way. I 100% believe he's a cool guy. No, he totally seems sincere and down to earth.

Yeah, for sure. It was something about when she told the story when they first met, because again, this is supposed to be a tell-all, right? And in a tell-all, you want to hear the tea. There's an expectation of authenticity, I think, when we watch a tell-all or read a tell-all. And every once in a while, Megan will say something where I'm like i don't buy it you know and i get if you don't want to like share everything you want your privacy but again you you made a tell all and you got paid so much money for it and i think that's where i think

kind of the expectation and the discourse comes from but she was like you know when i first i got set up by harry and like but all all all I wanted to know was, is he nice? And I'm thinking there's no fucking way. That was the conversation you have with your friend, with your friend. When you got set up with Prince Harry and you're about to go on a date and the, and I'm supposed to believe that the only thing running through your mind

was, I just want him to be nice. It's just like, it's that such a, like a, like a scripted answer that sounds nice you know it's the i you know it's like a media trained answer and that's fine but it it takes away from the authenticity that i think people want and expect when watching a tell-all no do you remember when

anne hathaway was really out and people were like, she's too earnest. People were so mean to her. People were really mean to Anne Hathaway for a minute. Oh yeah, bullying. And I wonder, is this the Anne Hathaway moment where people just don't like earnest people? Like what I read off Meghan Markle and Anne Hathaway is they want to be liked. They want to be liked. You know, they want to be seen. They don't want anyone to be mad at them which i relate to and i think it's not cool to be earnest totally you know and so i just wonder if we're gonna look back and be like we were too mean to megan like she was trying i don't think it doesn't seem like objectively like harry and megan have done nothing wrong from where I can sit. I'm not British. I don't care about the monarchy.

But yeah, it's this more, it's, there's this weird kind of critique of, yeah, of like this documentary. It's the wanting to be liked and going through the exercise just that opens up the door you know and as a like former tv executive my big knock on it is i wasn't juicy i was like oh they seem like really nice and in love that's so nice i wanted like dirt like if you're telling me this is a tell-all which which is how it was advertised, I want it to be juicy and revelations and it's a cliffhanger and oh my God, can you believe that happened? But this was just, let's wear cashmere, neutral colors, we're very much in love. Somehow we knew to take photos at our first date. That's weird,

by the way. That was weird to me. I think that was after the second date, though. That was after dinner. Either way, they clearly were documenting themselves very early in the courtship. Have you ever, on your second date with someone, been like, let's take a selfie? Could you imagine going on a second date and being like, hold on, let's just talk to the... Let's just say, how's this date going? Oh my God. Do we feel like we've known each other for ever? I feel like the first selfie is always a big deal when for me, it's vulnerable asking to take a picture with the person you're dating. Yeah. It's a big deal.

It's a big deal. I just, I, I also just give them props because they had the foresight, you know, in terms of whatever their brand is. But then I'm like, wait, I'm talking about a brand. I'm meant to be talking about like a love story, you know? Yeah. What if we give them credit for being two very sentimental people? Yeah.

That's the thing. I went on a first date the other or last week and I took a selfie. With the person? Mm-hmm. Really? Yeah. What was the context? We're going to send it to someone else that we like knew.

Oh, yeah. I've done that. Maybe they took it for the friend who set them up. Oh, good call. Because that would be the only thing that would really like make total, total sense else that we like knew oh yeah maybe they took it for the friend who set them up oh good call because that would be the only thing that would really like make total total sense to me otherwise it would be like it's a little odd and sentimental but go off go in and maybe sentimental is the right word because they knew they weren't going to see each other for a while she was leaving

they just said they wanted to capture the moment i'm pro team selfie i think you're brave that's a courageous move. It is. And what about them profiting so much off? Because isn't that what they're doing? I mean, they are profiting off the royal family's brand while not wanting to participate in the royal family. I say get that money. Just if that's what they need, I'm not going to.

I mean, I would do the same thing. For sure. Yeah. But also I agree not gonna I mean I would do the same thing for sure yeah but also I agree I agree with Tara because my point after watching these three episodes and again I went in with a lot of knowledge so it was nice to get clarifications but I kind of knew what the timeline was but their Oprah interview I felt like

had way more statements and quotes and big moments about there are racist members in our immediate family. There was questions about how dark Archie's skin would be. Those are the type of lines that were being brought up from the Oprah interview. And this this three episode arc, I'm with you, was a little bit more like, here's a story. Yeah, it was weird because they were like this woman wore this like horribly racist pin to a family gathering and then they didn't really follow through on what happened with that so i was just confused like there it

felt like there was it was kind of incomplete like they were giving us like little snippets but without any like payoff but it is interesting that like harry i mean while it wasn't juicy he was still criticizing his family. And I guess that's like they didn't even have to do a tell all. Right. Right. Couldn't they have? Well, they could have done a million things.

They could have done a documentary on a variety of their passion projects. Maybe they wouldn't have made the $100 million, but they made it with 50 or 20 or whatever. Still great. They were going gonna be fine. Like either way, someone's gonna pay Harry and Meghan to create content for as long as they wanna create content and they're gonna pay them handsomely is my guess. And they could have done a million other things

other than like, well, again, it wasn't scandalous, but like the whole premise of the royal family and the monarchy is their image. They even talked about it. They have this whole press arrangement, which they did try to sell it as scandalous on the documentary. It was like, we have all these outlets, and this is the thing they do, and you guys don't

know about this. And I'm thinking, well, the White House does that, and what's the fucking difference? This is your head of state, so to speak. I know it's more of a figurehead role than an act of like act of like government. But either way, we have the White House and the White House isabs he kept making at his family. And I just, I'm just wondering why. I didn't really quite understand that point of view. There was a telling moment where he was saying how Megan was going through all of this. And, you know, the press was even being like racist about her. And everyone in his family said, said well all our wives went through

it yeah and i i feel like maybe he just doesn't feel like he's had any compassion and by the way not all their wives you know went through it his mom died from all this paparazzi i did not like when they called the paparazzi paps i didn didn't like that. That was just a me thing. Harry and Meghan did? Everybody was kind of slang. And I was like, I don't know. But I feel like he went through a really unique experience.

And I would feel that way too. If my mom died because people were trying to take her photo, you'd have a different context. Because I felt like with so much of it it's like like the moment you were pointing out where it's like everyone's wives went through and it's like well yes and no i mean i don't i don't know i guess i didn't i wasn't paying attention when to when katyn was entering the royal family did was she how i mean i don't like maybe a resident

expert how does that work with like the kates of the world where they they're courting these so people kate actually switched colleges when she realized that prince william was going to go to saint andrews i guess kate's mom was optimistic that the two of them would meet and hit it off and that would be it um yeah so they met at saint andrews some sort of royal bloodline no i mean they do well She's just a normie. The Middletons are like well off, but no, I don't. Yeah. She's not. It wasn't like a Lady Diana situation where she already came with the lady title.

Interesting. Situation. So they met at St. Andrews, started dating, lived together like their last year there, continued dating. They dated for like seven or eight years. He wasn't committing. That's where the whole like weighty Katie or eight years. He wasn't committing. That's where the whole like weighty Katie thing came from. She finally had enough and kind of went out and lived

her best life. And then he didn't like that, came back and committed. But from insiders, there's a lot of orchestration and pressure happening from the firm, which is what they call like the Royals and the Middleton family, because they really wanted it to work so everyone wanted this to happen uh they got married in 2011 now have three kids but like did she deal with any like harassment from there's like a lot of videos of her trying to get into her car and there's a ton of paparazzi so i mean you saw that in the documentary typical stuff yeah but i mean like megan I mean, you saw that in the documentary. That's typical stuff. Yeah. But I mean, like Megan dealt with, like you, you,

you seen the clips, the, the racist remarks, the harassment, are you, you're rooting the Royal family, you know, it almost came,

it gave like kind of a, it was almost like, it seems like the people of, of Britain and the ones who are like big in the Royal family, it's almost like i got the impression that people who enter that community it's like old school like college hazing you know it's like we're gonna we gotta see if they can deal with this bullshit that all the other people do and so we almost put them through it that was kind of like the image that the documentary seemed to like give off. Is that how it has been over the years? Like, have other people dealt with just kind of the picking on and in the bullying from, like Kate got weighty Katie and I'm getting this much more magnified criticisms and racial remarks.

People weren't happy with the Camilla of it all after, you know, especially after Diana passed, Charles and Camilla getting back together, even though they're kind of were the entire time. So, I mean, I think all of the women, it's like people do. It's tough, but I do think Megan is different. Interesting. I feel like she was gaslit. Like in the true sense of the word. Like I think she was systematically like isolated. By who? By the institution of the royals.

Like I think like entering that space. They like she was cut off. They mentioned that. They kind of allude to it in the documentary. And I'm sure we'll get more to it when. Because in the Oprah interview. She alludes to having thoughts of like suicide while she was pregnant I believe and so I think that when they say in this interview how her friends are like yeah we

started hearing from her less and less like I think she was started to become like isolated from her friends and family she was getting unfair and a total double standard level of media criticism and being told no it's fine like what's wrong like you're weak you're not good enough and i i really think she was like truly like psychologically manipulated i also think it's hard to like she is so different from kate in so many ways like kate is from there like she's been dating william for so long and so like in this book they talked about the fact that they just operate in such different ways so when they were talking to staff or when

they were dealing with people like in the in the institution of it like Kate would call and say I'm sorry like I know I'm just the girlfriend and like was much more that approach and Megan was like oh we have an event tomorrow. Like I want it all laid out. Like I want to know everything. Can I look over the documents? Like it was just a much different personality. Which I'm sure is partially because she had a legitimate, successful career and knew what was up and knew to just like be prepared. Yeah. I mean, to her, I guess her credit. I mean, if if you're gonna try to get a prince to fall in love with you you kind of have to act like you

belong and that they're your equal which must be hard to do but like yeah like she kind of has this you know energy and like to Megan's credit like they were saying she does look stately she looks like she fits like she does she literally

looks like she was born to do this you know and yet i i can see how you know forgetting about all the you know the other stuff but you know entering the royal family like i can imagine people being like well flow your role here you know in terms of you there's like years of history and all this and meg you know and megan comes in i you know we in high school we we don't like newcomers even in adulthood we can like be like oh i don't know you like you have to like like as the human condition we do that with the people and then now you know magnify that with a whole royal family i i could see how, you know, the people in the royal family

found that to be a bit off-putting. Yeah, what did you think of the hugger comment when Meghan talks about how she's like, I'm a hugger! And how that was like not, it was in the context of her saying how this like stiffness that exists in external appearances

also exists in like more internal private settings. Which I think was a slight. Different cultures, I guess. Not dig, but I think that was William and Kate. I felt that was a dig. Yeah. Because like whatever, different people interact in totally different ways. You can't take that kind of thing that personally.

It's okay if Kate doesn't want to hug people. Like that's not a knock on her and i did feel like that comment was meant to be like they're so stiff and conservative and you know there's no warmth in them maybe she's just shy or doesn't want to be touched like there's a ton of other reasons yeah yeah i that i i agree with tara there they kind of lost me on those moments where it almost was like i think think they're being petty, you know, but it was like a kind of a passive aggressive petty, you know? And I, like with you, I would rather have them, if they're gonna like do a real tell all, just come out guns a blazing and just

like shoot from the hip and just start throwing grenades. Like the whole, like, you know, I think that's where Megan sometimes loses people is that she definitely gives off this kind of very kind of very polished and righteous and like put together and almost royal energy. And yet, you know, she can't help herself by like, you know, saying things to tell her side of the story to try to get people to side with her, which is only human. But I think that's where, you know, she loses people sometimes. It's like the middle ground. Like we want her,

like I want her to just come out, say what she means. You're telling your story. Okay. I'm here for that. But it's the middle ground of being like, well, we're above all this.

Yes. And here's the tea. And they're stiff. That's what it is. It's like, yeah, it's the, it's the, we're above all this, but. And here's the tea. And they're stiff. That's what it is. It's like, yeah, it's the, it's the,

we're above all this, but here's the, but if you pay attention, here's the tea. It's just like, and I think that's, that's, that's where she loses people.

I think that's, if she could just lose that, either, either really not care what people think and just be your most authentic self or do the Kateate and william approach where it's like hey we're fucking rose we got a job to do like we don't spill tea we don't respond we always rise above we it's all about the image it's all about the brand it's like all right well

i get you know you got a job to do but i think it's the harry and megan trying to play both sides that there is rubbing their critics the wrong way i don't think they're trying to say they're above it though just that they're above it though, just that they're separate. It's just how it comes across. See, I thought the hugger comment, like I think it would be really jarring if I was meeting my like soon to be brother-in-law

and sister-in-law and they wouldn't like, they wanted to shake my hand. I'm sure it would, but would you go on a Netflix special and get a hundred million dollars to like talk that shit? If I was trying to explain like the little ways that i felt like culturally like like there was this disconnect

or divide then like yeah i would i think it's like a relevant data point but it's like you have a different culture you know it's just like they're just different people like we're i'm different you know we have we had different upbringings you're from the east coast i'm from the midwest we've both changed as human beings but like i don't like that like we can't accept that like we're just different we came from different places and your displays of affection are might be very different than mine and when we when we say that publicly is a criticism to people about their character i think it's i don't i don't like that i feel like there's a lot of assumptions though making it about their character, I think it's, I don't like that. I feel like there's a lot of assumptions, though,

making it about their character. Because their whole, but your whole, but that's, but that, therefore, like, you're projecting onto it. No, she said that. She said the stiffness, it's not even just the hugging. She said it, the formality or the stiffness

that you see at events, I was assuming once the door was closed, everyone would kind of relax, and it just maintained. Like, she made it this overall character thing but I also wasn't saying like what what where's the line of you are you're meeting them for the first time you're you're kind of on their territory you're meeting a new family if I went game if I went home for Christmas with someone and someone stuck their hand out I don't think I would be like oh my god I'm a hugger like yeah just kind of go with the flow a little bit.

Every girlfriend's family I met, I definitely, on a level of best behavior and politeness, and I'm not making myself at home right away. I'm like, hey, I'm entering your house. And this context is the royal family. This is the royal fucking family. It is famously formal. Yeah and and again like talk your

shit megan but it's like it's the rise above and i'm i'm not petty entered the she's trying to give off and i think people see below it it's just like the i just wanted to know if he was nice line i like that's not believable like i would go to my grave if there's a way I could prove that to say there was other things going on in her mind. And she probably has some crazy shit and good for her. And I want to know that crazy shit that was like, what the fuck were you thinking going on this date? And it wasn't just, I hope he's nice, you know? And then when she gives those disingenuous answers like i it makes me question other answers right she's in an impossible situation totally like you know i thought it was so horrible when they were showing that the paparazzi followed her mom and like tried to make her look poor and come from a bad neighborhood it's disgusting like taking photos of her in a laundromat to be bad is the most classist terrible take so like how could megan win they're overtly racist tracking down her mom she's probably uncomfortable it's this new world she's entering into i feel like she has to be

defensive i just and she wants to build an empire. So it's all those things. I just wouldn't have done the tell-all. If I were their manager or their publicist, I'd have been like, what are some other ways? Maybe a bad example, but I'm going to use it anyways. But I come from Bachelor Nation. Everyone knows that a handful of people write tell-alls. I've been propositioned to write a tell-all. I could have written the best tell-all of all time. I've been on a lot of episodes. I know a lot of things. I've experienced a lot of things. And I just like was always like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to do that. Years later, I took a stab at writing a book about relationships and I didn't know how people would feel about it. I didn't even know I could write, but I tried.

And that was like a creative choice of mine. And I'm just saying like, they didn't have to make a tell all and that's fine that they did. And if I were in their shoes, I probably would have done it too, but they could have done other things to make their money, to like carve out like what they want their brand to be that didn't like necessarily criticize family members or, you know, the whole,, I mean, the whole institution. And it just opens up the door for criticism. It's not again, I don't give a shit. I'm not here to criticize them. It's just more like I I'm more questioning from what like we're discussing what seems to be their goal, like building an empire, being liked like I'm on the same page with you. And like if that's their goal, I think their execution was a bit off.

And if they didn't expect to be criticized, that would be insane. Yeah. It seemed to hope that they didn't want to be criticized. I don't know if they expected it, but it seemed like they really hoped that people would watch this and just fall in love with them. Right? I don't know. I did kind of fall in love with Prince Harry. Yeah.

Harry or them? Harry in particular. But like, I love, my favorite movie is When Harry Met Sally, actually. And the whole beginning is like, cut to music, old school, like 1950s music. They're so in love. Here's a picture of them kissing black and white in an industrial kitchen. Like, that was nice. You know, and I was like, oh, romance is alive.

This worked. I think they're very much in love. Like, that was really nice. And if they just had given me some dirt, I would have really liked it. But it was, like we were talking about, the middle of the road. We want to have a brand.

We want to make a couple digs, but not really. I guess the documentary didn't know what it wanted. Yeah. Yeah. Could have had a more clear scope. It kind of looked like a lifestyle photo shoot. Yeah. Like, beautiful Santa Barbara, they're in love,

but what's the point here? And maybe we'll see that in the next episodes. Yeah, I wonder if they were trying to save all the tea for the end. I did find it interesting. Obviously, we saw Megan's half-sister pop up in the news around the time of the wedding. But I don't think anyone really knew about the relationship that Megan had with her niece. And the fact that she then couldn't attend the wedding. So that was an interesting little tidbit.

I couldn't be more team Megan when it it comes to like the family conversations her dad when it comes to awful when it comes to tell-alls in general or just like you know like so-and-so sister like family members get way too much credit to be like the source of information about someone's character. It's just like, you know, when like, oh, so-and-so's brother or sister or parent or cousin, we're like, oh, well, if they're related, it must be totally true or totally accurate. I love my family. I got a bunch of siblings. Quite honestly, one or two, I would want speaking in my behalf, because I feel like they really know me, you know? And part of it is like, hey, maybe I didn't let my other siblings get to know me

or whatever, like we're siblings, we love each other. Not all of us are as close as some of the other ones. Like family dynamics are weird and funky. And like, there's a lot of like competition and all these like variables that go into like, you know, if one sibling has some level of success that the other doesn't have like that can get real fucking messy and i just don't think we should be like sourcing family members to get the most honest critique of people's like character and yet we do it all the

time like a megan's stepsister is i don't know who anything about her or what she's going through but her sister half sister she her half sister even worse they're actually related and one of them became a princess and the other one is this like i don't know struggling whatever i don't even know what she's doing but she is not doing well it's red lies she's talking shit she's talking shit she really if you want some shit yeah and then people are paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars to talk shit and like of course she's gonna talk shit it's so messed up like you remember that girl you saw 18 years ago the one you're you share a dad with talk shit yeah she's a princess now how are you how are you

yeah you like lost your job or you hate your job or whatever it is. Oh, your kid got taken from you and your parents raised your kid. Oh, yeah. That was a weird detail, too. Yeah. Yeah. Her kids got taken away by her grandparents to take care of them. But please tell us more about Megan's character.

The second Denise kept referring to her mom as her biological mother, I was like, oh, I want to know why. I was like, tell me the shit. Yeah. What did she do? And then her biological mother i was like oh i want to know why i was like tell me the shit yeah what did she and then her dad that was so sad that broke my heart yeah and the fact that he just like wouldn't even answer and then at one point they're like the phone's been compromised because he would have never called me megan the it's awful yeah that was weird who was on the phone i don't know who's answering his text it was a chat bot literally that's what it sounded like it wasn't even coherent the whole frame and it was like it felt like he was talking about megan to megan that message that was sent back didn't make any sense i don't understand why he

didn't just apologize like if if you do something like that you're you're letting uh paparazzi take photos of you stage photos you're profiting off your daughter and you get caught. Who in that situation, like if I did that to my sister, well, she's still my, like I messed up. She's still my sister. Like that's not worth blowing up

our whole relationship for all the time. And it seemed like Harry, that text, he's like, hey, this is Harry, blah, blah, blah. He seems like a real level-headed, hey, I get it. This is fucking weird. The life I brought you into. They were even offering, let's like, hey, this is Harry, blah, blah, blah. He seems like a real level-headed, hey, I get it. This is fucking weird. The life I brought you into.

They were even offering, let's move you out of there. You know, can we get you over here sooner for security purposes? It didn't seem like they were like, oh, you staged photos. The door's shut. They were trying. Assuming if he needed the money, she probably would have given him some. Just given him the money. Right?

I mean, these are all kind of very complicated, nuanced questions. Like, I guess there's an argument to be made where the guy, you know, his dad's like, maybe he just doesn't, like, I will say, like, parents really don't know better when it comes to this type of stuff. Like, when I went on The Bachelor,

which is very much different than being a royal, you know, like, but nevertheless, a lot of crazy things happen to like, you know, a lot of crazy things happens to me and a lot of things, you know, local news outlets reaching out to my parents. And a couple of times I'd like tell my parents like, hey, like, I know you want to like have my back

and shit like that, but just please don't and stuff like that. So it can be really weird. And like, someone's like, hey, I'll give you $100,000 but just please don't and stuff like that. So it can be really weird. And like, someone's like, hey, I'll give you $100,000 if we like, just let us take a picture of you holding this book. Like, I can see how he fucked up

and didn't just know better, right? Yeah, it wasn't, it didn't seem like an evil plot against his daughter. It seemed like maybe he needed money. It's like, okay, yeah. I mean, he needed money. It's just like- And it's a stupid thing. You a stupid thing what for this okay dumb photos maybe never even heard of the royal family like he didn't seem like a guy who really invested in what like you know

princess diana was doing back in the day so like i just wish he would have apologized i feel like if he had just said wow i messed up i needed money who can't understand that if my dad did that to me if he needs money and what you know and he's embarrassed and the way he's gonna get it is take these photos who can't relate to that and forgive and i feel like in their text messages they also said we're not mad at you they did did everything. He lost his daughter. Not only did he not get to walk her down the aisle, they're done. I was confused about that.

They literally talked about him as if he died. And then my understanding is he actually missed the wedding because he was sick, not because he refused to go. Is that inaccurate? I feel like there's a lot happening at the same time because even you saw the footage, it was less than a week, but it was close to the wedding. And the plan was for him to still be there to walk her down the aisle. So this all happened very last minute. And I feel like it was maybe, was he sick? Was it like because of the shame of the photos,

no one really knew, which is then why her mom was always going to be in the car with her. But then what ended up happening is she did half of the aisle by herself alone and then prince charles came halfway down and did the rest of it with her it was nice yeah so it was like ended up being like a cute moment but but why why is there no potential reconciliation because i know that was messy but like can't we get over this i had that question question too because Prince Harry talked about the dad like he was dead. Like there was no way. She lost her father. And I'm just wondering why.

Like no hope of reconciliation, but why? That's the only thing that doesn't add up. It's like, okay, you weren't mad. You sent these texts. It's not a big deal. You made a mistake. He doesn't know better. It's not that hard to try to put yourself in his shoes and be like, he fucked up.

Like. Harry said, now she doesn't have a full, now she doesn't have a father. I shouldered that because if Meg wasn't with me, then her dad would still be her dad. It's amazing what people would do and offered a huge amount of money, 50,000, 100,000 to hand over photographs to create a story. And thank God most of them said no yeah and again like i i do have a little like i don't know her dad at all maybe he's a piece of shit but if this is all he did does he want to come on the podcast yeah if it all he did was

take a couple staged photos i can totally understand how he truly didn't know better and while a hundred thousand and fifty thousand dollars it sounds like harry understands that's I can totally understand how he truly didn't know better. And while $100,000 and $50,000, it sounds like Harry understands that's a lot of money to most people, there's no way he understands the value of that, right? Even, let's call it just a mistake. Even, let's say he knew it was bad, he needed the money, he made a mistake.

Cool. We all have done things we wish we hadn't have. But I agree that what's weird is how they said they were so like open but then the door is closed forever like she didn't lose a father she has a strained relationship with her father she's mad at her dad she's mad at her dad who missed her wedding super it's shitty it sucks be mad you ruined a lot of things it's fucked up but like you should be able to get over that if you truly weren't that mad when it happened right i wish they would have gone into that like what what have what's happened since has any side tried to do outreach is it now like

oh the phone's been compromised so we're not reaching out that was weird odd that that ominous weird text where he called her megan would be the last possible time anyone's heard from him i don't know and you know her mom obviously is this very like put together woman and like she was clear like i would never like she clearly knew better i would never do this i was asked and like and so props to her And again, like her dad fucked up. I guess it's the, why are they, why is it off the table? Why is he, why do they talk about him as if he's dead? Yeah. Did something else happen?

I wonder. And if so, why are you telling us if like, why are you giving half of this? Why are you throwing this man under the bus and not giving us all the detail? And if there isn't more, then why are you painting it as if you weren't that mad, it wasn't a big deal, you tried to take the high road, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and he just what? Because they're implying from what the information they give us, the only guess I can come up with is that their dad is done with her and he's the one maybe who feels embarrassed and he's the one who has canceled her out of her life and not the other way around i mean i guess that's possible because it is odd they talk about obviously i know we're like looking back and talking about things in the

present tense as if they're just happening but they did get married four five years like it was 2018 in the spring but like four years ago four and a half years ago yeah so i'm like but again four and a half years is a long time yeah a lot of relationships can be patched up and christmas like hey dad two children yeah i know we went through a lot but just you know i still love you A lot of relationships can be patched up. A lot of holidays and Christmas. Like, hey, Dad. Two children. I know we went through a lot, but just, you know, I still love you and you're still my father. And I hope, you know. Has he met their kids?

Okay, so he was quoted. He gave an interview to the Daily Mail a few days ago. A few days ago. Where he said. He's alive! Where he said he wrote every single word of the text message that they said was not from him. And he also said, I would love to meet my grandchildren. I have the same phone, same house.

Like basically implying that they can get in touch with him. But my question is, why is he saying this to a newspaper? Like that does not demonstrate any growth, change, or evolution. Like that proves their point that he was like utterly- Has he reached out? I mean, it's like he says like they could reach out to me pretty easily so it's like you know sometimes with family i i always get this where it's like nick never calls and i'm always like literally my phone's oh like no one's calling

me you know then do you go to tmz and say nobody's calling me i'm here same cell phone okay but if just to play fair they did make a documentary and got paid a shit ton of fucking money and they're telling their story to throw him under the bus that's a good point it's hard to feel compassion for anybody because it's so public everybody's making money this is so not a relatable situation. There's definitely holes and things I don't understand and criticisms they make that people could easily make about them. Where it's just like, well, you don't want your dad posting a picture, but the entire country of England doesn't want you guys making hundreds of millions of dollars off the brand of the royal family, which you don't have a problem doing. That's a really good point. Which is the difference. You know? you don't have a problem doing. It's like, that's a really good point, which is the difference. You know,

I don't give a shit. I really don't care. I want the people to know out there. I don't care, but you know, yeah, his dad shouldn't go to TMZ, but who is,

has anyone reached out to the other person? Right. And they did the exact same thing in their documentary. They didn't reach out to him. They just said what happened. We all got to talk about it. And we all got to think he's a totally big piece of shit and a loser. And how could he?

And how dare he? And why can't he be more like Megan's mom? And her side of the family is amazing. And his side of the family. Like, that would be hurtful. I would be upset. Do you want to hear some quotes from him? He said, I made a terrible mistake on the topic of paparazzi photos.

I made a terrible mistake for which I have apologized many times. I never got any help. I believe the photographer who told me those pictures would take some of the pressure off me. Harry and Meghan are now doing everything they told me not to do. They told me never to talk. I believe what they are doing now is far worse than anything I ever did. He's not. And then she had a father before this

and now she doesn't have a father. Oh, sorry. That's the Harry quote. And then Mr. Markle said in response to that, she does still have a father. I'm here. I'm still alive. I still live in the same house

and still have the same number. I'm still her dad. I would love to see my grandchildren. They have two grandfathers who would love to see them. Like, how has he not met their grandkids? But also, is it not a risk? I mean, he's going to this outlet.

He's gone to other outlets. And I agree with you. They're exposing him to the world as well. But wouldn't you be nervous of, here, come to our home. Let's talk to you about what we're doing. And then he's going gonna go and blast it everywhere like do you make your father sign an NDA nobody trusts each other here yeah I I don't know but

there is no one's willing it doesn't sound like anyone's willing to take the high road and that include Harry and Meghan in that and I think they are trying the documentary presents them as trying to take the high road and I think it felt it falls flat no i don't know it's just now that i think about yeah if my dad had repeating behavior such as this i don't know if i'd be eager this is in response to their documentary he hasn't when has he has he given an interview before all this he's gotta have done something in the last four and a half years he's gotta make a living i don't know he got like you know maybe he stretched out that 100k i don't know like what if everybody's in cahoots oh my god they're all in on it together like the royal family

megan and harry it's just to keep them relevant i mean because look this is exactly what you know it's reality tv it's exactly and if you believe that all the royal family wants is publicity, here it is. I mean, everybody's talking about this. The whole goal is to keep them relevant. You know, I always say there's no such thing as haters or supporters. It's just people who care or don't care. Oh, I've never heard that before. That's a good.

I made it up. It's just a truth bomb for me. Yeah, it's just a truth bomb for me. Oh my God. Megan's half brother, right before their wedding, sent Harry a letter telling him it's just a truth bomb from you yeah it's just a truth bomb from me oh my god megan's half brother right before their wedding sent harry a letter telling him it's not too late to turn back wait what what reverse you have my attention great so you know how uh megan's dad had two those two adult children we talked about the sister okay sure but she also has a half brother okay i didn't even know this until right now because i was searching for thomas markle and this popped up as thomas

markle jr thomas markle jr will soon be appearing in the australian version of celebrity big brother and called megan markle shallow during the trailer for the show and said that i told prince harry i think she's gonna ruin your life and he sent like he sent Harry a letter right before the wedding saying it's not too late to turn back and that his half sister is obviously not the right woman for him wow yeah that's

bad it's bad insane everyone needs help I mean this is my take this is back from 2021 so maybe he's already been on the show but woof but that's... Whether he believes that or not, that is a shitty thing to do. Yeah, human to human, that's just bad. Just bad.

That's awful. It's not too late to turn back. She'll ruin your life. Says the half-brother that she doesn't know. He's going on Celebrity Big Brother simply because his sister is Meghan Markle? He recognizes that, right? Yeah. I don't think he does recognize that.

Yeah. I think they do really embody what you always say about choosing each other every single day. Like, I think that was one thing about this documentary. Like, I found the love story. Like, I was there. I was here for it. I got them falling in love. I don't think their connection is necessarily one that exists in a super, like, outward-facing way.

Or, like, or if it is, they didn't show it in the super like outward facing way or like or if it is they didn't show it in the movie in the sense that like I didn't feel like there were any moments where I was like oh my god they're saying like such meaningful heartfelt things to each other but I did know that they were like very in love that much was clear and also just like in all the trials and tribulations they went to went through it seemed like Harry was just really unwavering in support of Megan and that Meghan was doing her very best to navigate all of this crazy stuff because she really loved Harry. They give me a strong team energy.

Yeah, they very much seem in love. Like, unify front. Yeah, totally. And I love seeing how Harry looks at Meghan. You know, he's obviously so in love with her. And for that alone, I was like, this is beautiful. So nice.

I feel like he's a total wife guy. He seems so good. Even the statement where he was saying, I know there's going to be people who disagree with how I went about things, but I had to protect my family. I had to get my family. It's Papa Bear energy. It seems like he's a high character guy, and he was raised

in an environment where he probably had the option to be low character or bad character you know when you have that much privilege you can kind of decide to be a piece of shit and not face the consequences yeah again my only real critique is i would have gone about this whole empire brand building a different way and i wouldn't have done a tell-all i i do think it's beneath what they're trying to accomplish and i think they could have gone about in a more delicate and smarter way that wouldn't have opened themselves up for the type of criticism they're getting and the stuff with the dad and stuff like that like it's hard to argue against some of the things that it's just like well yeah they got a point like why are they why are they saying and doing this and like what's

the explain to me the difference between what they're criticizing other people of doing and what they're doing right now and they're making the most money out of anyone in this equation i mean i know like the royal family they're just like fucking rich and shit but like you know like like prince williams he doesn't have does he have i don't know how it all works with finances but like do they they're all like landowners and like his dad prince charles like obviously inherited billions of dollars when he became the king but like do they have their own fortunes well i don't know if their own fortunes per se, but I do remember reading something that because Kate is known for her like iconic blowouts. She always has like the beautiful blown out hair. And I remember when they were engaged or just recently married. This was years ago.

Someone was saying that the budget for her like blowouts every few days actually came out of Prince Charles's like budgetary whatever at Clarence house and so I just thought it was funny that her father-in-law was quote-unquote paying for her blowouts every few days but because like she doesn't have her own like credit cards or something probably I mean probably not though you know that's a good question do they have credit cards they just hand out jewels like do they know they're like ATM pin yeah do they have a debit card yeah probably not but like harry and megan probably obviously do now and they probably have agents and all these things and and they're getting their bag that's for sure i think the one thing there is to say in response to the like why would they do the

tell-all like kind of bad pr is i imagine for them like this was relentless and i think when we see it in a montage in a documentary it's easy to be be like, okay, yeah, it was like this. We get it. But like every single goddamn day being nitpicked for something and being told what you're doing wrong and being told how you are and being like having these lies broadcast to the world, I'm sure in reference to all of those days that she was putting up with bullshit headlines, a few days of doing an interview doesn't feel like that much. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure she justified it a million ways. I just, I don't know if it,

again, as someone who doesn't give a shit in a way, like if Meghan and Harry want to hang out, let's double date. Like I'm down to hang out with them and I'll be their best friend. But I'm just saying like, I don't think that saves them from the criticism that is out there. And if they're trying to be well-liked and have this brand and have no, you don't understand me. And, but this, this, like just honestly ignoring people and then just proving them wrong in the future by different actions and just letting them decide for themselves, whether they want to like see a different

version of you is I feel like the only way that changes people's perspective. It's not like when I went on the bachelor and got a villain at it, it wasn't like, it wasn't blaming the edit and like saying, you don't know me. And this is the other side of the story that you like changed anyone's mind about me. It was like years of like, just doing my thing and being who I am and letting people decide whether they started to like what I was doing or still not like what I was doing. And I've had people who used to like me who might be like, well, I used to like you. And now I think, you know, this know this or that like it's not a tell-all i don't think it's ever been like now i like you more you know it's more like thanks for the tea and

you're messy you know like i so i just don't know why they did the tell-all there's no winner here you know what megan and harry do win though is a lot of money. So, like, good to them. Congratulations. That's awesome. Meghan is building an empire. Cool, cool. And everyone seems really hurt. And I have no opinion because my family is messed up, too, just in wild other ways. And I can't imagine what it's like to be nitpicked that publicly.

For sure. I would love for Meghan, my my my wish is that harry and megan's dad can find a place of reconciliation maybe the wounds will never go away but like hopefully there's space to like introduce them to their grandfather and and not talk as if your dad is dead when he literally like i i hope for, however they get there, that the wounds can heal because I just don't see how that's not a better outcome for everyone than to throw jabs across media platforms in the public eye for people on podcasts to debate. Anyway, time for some texting office hours. How's it going?

Good. My name's Molly. I am 25 years old and I am needing help because I got ghosted by my best friend of 10 years over basically a miscommunication. Okay. Wow. That's a lot to fire a best friend over. Yeah. What do you mean by miscommunication?

Miscommunication, basically, we were supposed to have a phone call one day, talk on the phone. She's in a pretty intense school program, so she doesn't have a ton of free time. She called me. I didn't answer because I was busy. And then basically,

I didn't hear from her for like a day and a half after that. And I was trying to get a hold of her. And then she sent me this really long text, basically firing me as her best friend. And I said, OK, let's do and talk sometime soon. You know, like, I want to work this out. I really can't like I don't want this to be like a thing. And then I haven't heard from her in seven months now. I'm blocked on all social media.

Her husband and entire family blocked me on all social media um her husband and entire family blocked me on all social media and i'm just trying to figure out like you have should i reach no idea no idea for like why she blocked me yeah well do you mind you sent the the long message she sent yeah basically she i can't read well do you want to do you want to be the friend? Sure. That's the black one, right? Yeah. And it's like... Black on black. It's two pages.

It's really long. Yeah. I can do the timestamps because I feel like it's relevant. Okay. You're very good at the stage directions. Take us away, Amanda. Friday, June 3rd, 6.01 a.m. Morning, buddy.

Friday, June 3rd, 8.50 a.m. I don't want to name names in quotes. It's probably my biggest pet peeve in life. Live. Oh, you said live. Then you created yourself live. What were you referring to? I have no idea.

I think I was just texting her something random that happened at work or came to mind or something. Okay. Nothing pertinent to this. All right. Later that day at 12.44. What are you doing? Later that day at 10.06. So later that night at 10.06, day at 1244. What are you doing? Later that day at 1006. So later that night at 1006, she doesn't reply to what are you doing?

Three question marks, you write. And then the following morning, Saturday, June 4th, 821. If something is wrong, I would appreciate you letting me know. All very fair, you know, no emojis, no exclamation points. Love it from you. Thanks. And at Saturday,une 4th at 10 25 feelings hurt needed space because that's how i get over things i have to pull away when my relationship with people feel draining or non-reciprocal to me to preserve my energy and that's how i was feeling i I feel that way extremely often,

and most times I just roll with it until I have to recharge. When I talk to people, they talk to me about themselves slash what they have going on, rarely ask about me in any way in return, which I don't mind 99% of the time. But when I do have something I want to talk about slash get off my chest, it sucks to continuously be ignored. I had voice memoed you actually, wanting to talk about how to approach something with my mom, parentheses, who I have also pulled away from because I'm drained, and had another question about nursing school that would pertain to me slash my semester,

but I didn't even bother since that was dismissed. That's why I said our texting drives me nuts. We are great over the phone, but texting goes unmet 98% of the time when I always feel that I make a conscious effort to be there to hear out anyone around me. I put effort in where I can in my windows, but I have to stop still always being the one to put effort in outside of my windows too. So it's just something I have to pull back on for my own sake so that I preserve my energy for the people who always give theirs to me in full. D, harps, gram, etc. And this is not supposed to be argumentative. You asked me what was wrong, and I'm being vulnerable and sharing. It's not a diss or a slam. I hope our friendship is at

this mature of a stage to understand because it's not a big deal, and I'm not mad or trying to be ugly at all. This is simply how I deal with my feelings and would have kept that to myself had you not asked. Hope you have a good day and we will talk soon. I'm going to go have a day with Dee before I have to study all night. And on top of it all, my anxiety has been at an all-time high lately, which I also briefly mentioned to you and nothing back. So I'm just trying to balance everything and feel healthy in all aspects because I haven't lately. Yeah. Okay. And you wrote, okay, well, I love you. And I think we should talk about all this on the phone when we have the chance, because obviously I'm not great at texting,

not shade. It's just true. So I see and hear you on all of this and I'm not dismissing at all. I just think talking on the phone would be best so we can both feel better. Is that okay with you? Let me rephrase. If it's just about important stuff and not just about shooting the crap,

yeah, I'm bad at texting and this and you are very important to me. So I want to talk on the phone whenever we, and whenever we can. She wrote back. No, sorry. I don't have time for a phone call. I have a quiz I'm studying for. And this whole scenario, including what I voice memoed you about is past the point. Basically, she sent that. I said, hey, let's talk about it. She said, no, I can't. And then I can pull up the text.

But basically, we haven't spoken since then. She called me out of the blue, no, like nothing, just out of the blue one day, two weeks later. I didn't answer because I kind of of still i felt like she was just expecting me to drop everything for her and i was still upset about the situation you deliberately didn't answer yes i i deliberately did not answer i was i was at lunch with my boyfriend at the time or not at the time he's my boyfriend but we were at lunch and i didn't answer i didn't text i did like i didn't yeah I just let it go and didn't say anything. Wait. So you wrote at some point, June 15th. Hey, bud, I decided to step back too.

And I'm feeling better. Hope everything is going well for you and we can talk soon. I love you. Yellow heart. What's that in reference to? Okay. So sorry. I forgot about that part. I didn't answer after she said, no, I can't talk. I sent her that text basically because I didn't want to talk to her either. Like I was pretty upset after that just because I felt like I was trying to like, you know, say, hey, let's figure this out. And she didn't, I felt pretty rejected. So I sent her a text, told her I was feeling better. Like if we could talk soon. Then one day she called me up at the blue and I did not answer because she never applied to that text. So then it was just kind of like a back and forth of us kind of like dodging each other. And yeah, now it's seven months later. How badly do you want to rekindle this friendship? I've gone back and forth about it. You know, she's my best friend for 10 years and like my deepest, closest friend. And I've been been like I've been pretty sad about it the whole time but you know I go back and forth between like do I really like want to put myself

through this again because I feel like I'm honestly just gonna be met with rejection but I'm also like but we were friends for so long and I don't necessarily want like you know I don't want to like just throw all that away so I don't know what I want what about the friendship would you be losing if you never had it come back in your life? Like, what does she bring to your life as a friend? Honestly, I really, I really hate saying it. I feel like, I feel like at the time I thought I would be losing a lot more because I've obviously thought about it. Like I felt like I was losing a lot more, but really she has just been like, she's been there with me through a lot of stuff over the last 10 years. I mean, we were friends from 15 to 25, you know, and I feel like she's kind of like

my last friend's connection from my like childhood almost. And I think that's more what I'm connected to because when I think about it, I feel like a lot of stuff was kind of one sided with her. But, um, what do you mean? I don't know. I just, like she, like she expects me to drop the phone, drive two hours to hang out with her for a day. Like she lives about two hours away from me, expects me to like always come to her. Everything is kind of on her time. And I, and I kind of just let it happen. I didn't really like set my boundaries with that. Yeah. I feel like it was just very like, she says it's all one side of it. Really. I feel like I had to put in a lot of the effort with her.

You know, I don't know, obviously her or you, but when I read, when you read her message, I wonder if she like reread it before she sent it. There are just a lot of eyes in there. I do this. I do that. Also a lot of eyes in there. I do this. I do that. Also a lot of, I'm not angry. Yeah. I'm not angry.

I'm not mad. It's fine. Yeah. I mean, listen, this has all happened before. You've had a falling out before. We've,

we've had, I think it's actually kind of weird. I think I've figured out that we've had like a falling out every two years for the last, like, I don't know, most of our friendship actually. So there's all, it's like periodically there's always something that happens and then we like rekindle and then things are great. And then, but this is the longest stretch and now it's kind of like, okay, do I, do I want this? Do I want to reach out? You know, I don't know. do i do i want this do i want to reach out you know i don't know well i mean that's your first question no like deciding whether you want to like and i ask that because if you do like you you like if you want to rekindle this friendship you'd have to decide to like that have that be your priority and then you have to like set aside you know the who's right or who's wrong. And you have to be the bigger person, you know, like when she called and you screened her, you know, and I know you're with your boyfriend and you're like, well, I don't want to drop things because like, and you have the right to do all

those things. But like at the end of the day, you have to decide like, is fixing this relationship a priority or not? And if it is, then you have to make it a priority and make some sacrifices. And even if that means, you know, being the bigger person, just so that you guys can get in front of each other and have a conversation, because you're right over text, it's not going to do anything. Yeah. But I don't know if you are like emotionally invested in making it work. I'm just kind of wondering, has this exact topic come up before? Like you've said, you've had all like this has happened in a pattern. What is it usually about? Is it the same topic? The last time happened, I think in 2020, I went to her, I was at her house, actually me and, you know, some of our friends were all at her house for the, for 4th of July weekend. And

I guess she got really pissed off about something. I don't really know. And kind of like went off into like another room. It was just like sticking to herself. And I went in to check on her. I was like, Hey, like, are you okay? What can I do? And she was just like, no, like, leave me alone.

Like, I don't want to talk. And I was just like, you know, like, what can I, can I do anything? And then she just like flipped out on me, was like, no, leave me alone. And then I was like, all right. And then I took off and I left and I went home and I drove three hours back home. And then we didn't talk for two months or so. So I feel like, I don't know, I guess the common theme is almost like me constantly putting myself out there for her and then getting nothing.

But it's like a weird attachment i have to her almost like or to the friendship at least and that's what i've had a hard time letting go of because i hear something different which is each time you have a miscommunication some you guys aren't like aligned and then you just ghost each other and there's no resolution so you're doing the same thing yeah over and over because i yeah and i hearing like, it's like you guys had this really intense friendship that started when you were 15. Right. And you almost,

you guys, it's a very intense friendship. Right. And it's not just, you know, it seemed almost has like some parallels to like almost a romantic relationship where there's like a heightened expectation of being there for each other and nurturing each other in times of needs emotionally and things

like that. And, you know, we were talking about this earlier, like with great expectation can come great disappointment. And as you guys have no doubt matured and grown up, you said, I think she's, you said she's married or whatever. You have your boyfriend and you have your friends, you've made other friends too. And I think friendships often, you know, I always talk about checking in in relationships when things change and address the change rather than ignore the change in relationships, you know, because change is going to happen. And especially to just check in and be like, hey, like, this is different. How do we, how do we adjust? And friendships don't do that near as much as well and especially friends

friendships like this because you guys made all these promises to each other when you're younger we're going to do this we're going to be each other's weddings and blah blah and she doesn't handle you disappointing her very well that seems pretty obvious uh i don't know if you're any better i don't know i'm only getting your side of the story. But to Tara's point, you leaving and also not reaching out and expecting her to reach out and she's expecting you to reach out and you guys play this game and then finally someone gives in. And I think you guys need to set clear. If you were to rekindle this friendship, right,

first you'd probably have to be the bigger person and reach out. And then if you guys could sit down, you would probably have to be the bigger person and reach out. And then if you guys could sit down, you would have to say some version of like, listen, we have this past, we have this friendship. And I don't know about you, but like, I would like you in my life rather than not having you in my life. But I think we have to like reset our expectations with each other or what this friendship is. And maybe those expectations have changed from when they were 10 years ago or five years ago. But I think if we do that, we can avoid upsetting one another because I would rather have you in my life less than what I expect in the past than not at all.

Because right now, you're not in my life at all. And there have been several times in the past seven months that I really wanted to reach out to you. And I really wanted to ask you something or I wanted to talk to you. And I don't know if you feel the same way, but if you did, maybe there's a way we can like have a middle ground,

but it's gonna require you to like redefining your expectations of what this relationship means to both of you. I think it's worth for you to try. Okay. You know, because I do feel like there might be a learning opportunity for you here to kind of just reflect on the friendship itself.

If the worst thing that happens is you put in some effort to this friendship that you claimed, obviously was very meaningful, was 10 years long, like the emotional energy that you're gonna spend and try to fix this friendship, I think is worthwhile and you will have no regrets. Like that, that's how I see it, but it will require you to like be the bigger person throughout the course of this healing process. You can't just be the bigger person for five minutes while drafting a text message.

And then when you don't get the response that you expected from being the bigger person for five minutes while drafting a text message. And then when you don't get the response that you expected from being the bigger person for five minutes, then you decide to say, fuck you, I'm done. I tried yada, yada, yada. I think you're smirking here. So I can tell like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, that's my natural like response to the whole thing, obviously. And I get it's a total human emotion but like it's first recognizing the role you played in this situation before you try to approach her and maybe that's how you start this conversation as i've been doing a lot of thinking and reflecting and i realize that like i could have done this and i could have done that but

ultimately i just want to like i miss miss you. And I want to figure out a way to have a friendship with you. And I think, you know, you say it like that, rather than being like, I want what we used to have. I don't think you want what you used to have anymore. I don't think it's realistic for either of you to expect what you used to have. But I still think you can have a friendship that evolves into something new with new expectations, maybe more realistic expectations, not the expectation you guys set for yourself when you were 18 and 19. And like you, you didn't know who you're going to end up with. And you just, all you had were your dreams and each other.

And now you're kind of going up against those dreams and it's not fitting into what you guys expected. And it's like fucking with both of you. And you're just projecting your frustrations onto each other. If you do rekindle it, you have to have a conversation about like, how, since you guys have had this happen multiple times, what do we do in the future when we're not seeing eye to eye or we're frustrated each other?

You know how people say like, don't go to bed angry and shit like that. You guys need to figure out how to not to go to bed angry, so to speak, and not swear each other off and then play a game of chicken and whose responsibility is it to call the other person. Like I'm a big believer

and like no one is ever as selfless as they like to believe, you know? Because, and you know, selfish people call other people selfish all the time, you know? Because for you to think that everyone else is being selfish but you means that like, you for, and if you're thinking you're so selfless, then it's, it just, it's never is other people are thinking, well, you could have should done this. And of course you should have done that. Like, you know, it's easy for us to pat ourselves

on the back. We're always the heroes in our stories. No one's ever the villain in their own story. And I think just remember that, you know, because a lot of it feels like what you guys are fighting about is like semantics and, you know, not making the other person feel seen or heard at the most perfect time. And you guys are like kind of keeping score about who should do what. And then like at the end of the day, you guys just want to be there for each other when you need. And then you have the right to say, hey, I'm a little busy right now. Can we touch base tonight or tomorrow or whatever? And hey,

by the way, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you right away. I was busy. That's okay. You have a life. You guys got to get to a place where you're not having the same expectations that you had for each other when you were teenagers. And it doesn't sound like you've ever had that conversation. Just reach out and say, keep it real simple. You can text her whatever, or maybe surprise her with a phone call.

But should I text her? Since that's been kind of an issue. I mean, yeah, this year's how, I don't know the like text reach out. It's just, just hey i miss you this is going on too long i i would love to talk because i'm hoping i really want to have you in

my life and just see what she says there i also think i don't know if you have any sense of her like schools like what her guy's goal is but like sometimes you can look up when finals week is like it's on the school website like if you send her a text that's like hey like schools like what her guys goal is but like sometimes you can look up when finals week is like it's on the school website like if you send her a text that's like hey like and like just include something like hope finals went well or something like like maybe another way to just kind of like start the good will olive branch and like i'm listening to you girl the holidays are coming up yeah she'll probably be done with school she'll get a small break so she won't have to be stressed about that and then you say hey i've been thinking about you over the holidays. I miss you. Is there any chance we can reconnect? And just maybe throw in an apology. It breaks my heart. And for the role

I played, I'm sorry, but I do know I want you back in my life. If she shuts you down and says, hey, listen, I'm happy now and no offense, you have your answer. All right. Well, if there's anything to update, I'll for sure update you all. We'd love to. Just focus on not trying to win and lead with what you were working on and try not to get defensive, lead with love, kindness. And just, if you get in front of her, then just have an honest conversation about how important it is to have her in your life. And then what expectations should we set with ourselves to avoid this in the future and stop pretending it's never going to happen again. The only guarantee is that conflict will

always come up, especially with people who are invested in each other, who have expectations of each other, who spend a lot of time with each other. Expectations happen and that's what creates a relationship with expectations comes a possibility of disappointment and we're just only human and we're going to disappoint people. And when you start saying crazy shit like this will never happen, it makes the possibility that disappointing feeling really painful when it does. Yeah. And it definitely has been. So, all right. Good luck. Keep us posted. Thanks. thanks. All right. I really appreciate it. Our pleasure. Thanks for calling in. All right.

Yeah, no problem. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Good luck. Bye. Bye.

Thanks. Just like, don't be like, you know, the Markles. You know, be better than the Markles. Just have an honest conversation. Admit your mistakes. Admit your mistakes. And yeah, it's crazy. Yeah.

Because that's what the Markles are doing. It's, you did this on this day i have this text message i called what do you have to say about that yeah it's crazy when you find yourself litigating like who did exactly what and like to that thing like trying to win you know something has gone wrong with yourself yeah like oh there's something here why am i so defensive exactly yeah yeah you know and we appreciate her calling but yeah she was she definitely you you nailed it right in the head it was like the more we heard the more it was like we could be taught we could have been talking to our friend and hearing the exact same story and it's hard like as i was thinking about it if i

had to have the conversation with my friend my heart started racing like it would be hard to sit down with your friend and you know and like we're all growing up yeah like it's what it is it's tough friendships are tough i don't know tara it's been an absolute pleasure having you join us i had so much much fun. This was so fun. You guys are awesome. Well, we appreciate it. You're welcome back anytime. Can you please let my audience know of all the great things you're doing? Plus, you got a new book coming out. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So I have a new book coming out. It's called Glow in the Fucking Dark. Love the title. Thank you. What's it about? So my first book, Buy the fucking lilies is basically

i reparented myself after this neglectful childhood um and found stability something i never thought i would have and like precisely at the moment where i was like oh i'm on this good enough plateau awesome i for the first time ever heard this other voice that was like, there's more to your life. Like, you have, basically, I was playing whack-a-mole with depression, anxiety, any of these issues, plugging up holes. And I decided, who, like, who am I? What do I want? You know, the bigger questions that I really had never thought about. So this book is about asking yourself those questions, finding your own answers. asking yourself those questions, finding your own answers. But like I do it with stories. Like the time I ill-advisedly made myself eat a diet of raw beets and kale because I felt like I'd be a good

person. And that's what healthy people did. Like I've tried everything. So hopefully it's really, hopefully it's funny. Hopefully it makes you laugh. And, you know, I'm dealing with complex trauma, suicidal ideation. Like I'm trying to take on like some more serious topics. Wow. And I got the, you know, as someone who used to be an executive at Common and Essential and now as a writer and, and it almost sounded like your book you're talking about, because I know we, we, we hear from a lot of people who get to that point in life, late twenties, early thirties, mid thirties, even forties, and they, they don't love life. You know, they maybe just don't love what they do, but changing can be so scary. And I got a sense that maybe the book kind of like gives a lot of

perspective on, on people who might be relating to that kind of mindset. I mean, I fully pivoted my life. Like I worked at Comedy Central for 10 years. I started on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. That means I was there basically a third of my life to that point. It was home. And so to pivot, I first off got laid off that I did not leave of my own accord. I would have been hanging on because it was a dope job and it was so fun and it was safe. It was like the only family I ever knew. And so I basically, I moved

to Arizona. I did this like whole like left turn. I was like, yeah, packed up my Prius of doom and was just like, I'm off. And, you know, people ask me like, Oh, has, has it been really scary pivoting your whole career? And it's like, yeah, duh, it wouldn't be, it's not easy for anybody. And it's so much better than when I was walking around with anxiety being like, am I doing the right thing? Is this the right choice? Like I felt a constant anxiety because I didn't feel like I was doing what I wanted. I felt like I was just settling all the time. And then like the sitting and wondering

if you could be doing something better, kind of like our caller, like wondering if her friend hates her or not. That's so much worse than trying and failing at something. I have found, I don't know. It's just like the slow death of nothing. You used the precise right word, suffering. All she's doing, the caller, is suffering right now

because she's not doing anything to move forward. She's just stewing in a thing. Yeah. And so this whole book is about like, you actually could just make your life a lot better today if you stopped having these self-inflicted wounds of, am I good enough to do that? Can I do that?

Just try. And there's some really easy, you know, tips. Like it's in the self-help section, but I kind of hate self-help because I feel like they're like, feel joy. Just let go. I'm like, what are steps one through three? Like, duh, I want to feel joy, you know? So I try to like break it down. Like, here's what I did. I have no idea if it'll work for you, but it's an idea. I love that approach. I relate to that.

When I wrote my book, I was like, listen, take it or leave it. I don't know. Works for me. I'm not even saying I'm an expert, but like, fuck it. I like my life now. Yeah. I'm very not an expert. I just studied a bunch of stuff and now I'm really happy so here

exactly love that is it available for pre-order now? it's available for pre-order now and my first book Buy Yourself the Fucking Lilies

is out everywhere it's crushing life I know like Goop loved it I mean it's been critically acclaimed

all over the place so it's a bachelor alum Hannah Brown was seen carrying a copy of it and it was a huge moment at my publisher they were like oh my god did you like more so than um like a literary person liking it they freaked out so i think that makes sense because you would think that's probably from a target audience like that's who you want, you know, in Hannah Brown, like very public figure.

And that was a couple of years ago, even more in the Hannah Brown heydays. Like that makes sense. Like, Hey, that's someone who might hopefully is benefiting from it. I would rather have say like someone like Hannah Brown being photographed with my book than I guess, then yeah, I guess, you know, some,

some like insider. Yeah. And ultimately I hope the book is just helpful. Like that's what I hope. I find like if it one person, if it does, then you kind of feel great. And I'm imagining it's going to do a lot more than that.

I hope. Well, congrats. Thank you. And then where else can people find you? So I write a newsletter every week at tyroschuster.com slash newsletter, or you could just text 66866, text GLOW to 66866. And that I have like one every week, really easy to understand self-care tip. You could do this tomorrow to make your life a little better. And I'm on Instagram. Do you have one for us right now?

Well, actually, I don't have a tip. I have a reflection. You guys all really like one another. And you have so much chemistry and enjoy each other's company. And I hope you just bask in that. You're so lucky to have found one another. and it was just cool to watch all of you oh great job guys yay we were recording the intro this morning well I wasn't here for that no but it's a testament to the fact that we're very comfy that theater degree is really paying off oh well that means a lot to me, because I hired them and hoped that we would create this type of environment.

And, yeah, we definitely have. So thanks for noticing. Go team. So kind. Go team. You bring out the best in us. Well, thanks for listening, guys. As always, we appreciate it.

Don't forget to, you know, write us a review. We haven't asked you to do that in a while. Five stars is fine. Say something nice or not. I don't know tell your friends send in those questions at allthingsasknick at asknickatcastme.com cast with a K and

yeah don't forget Fortune Feimster next week to break down the rest of the episodes plus we'll get into obviously other topical topics and freestyle well we'll surprise you bye obviously other topical topics and freestyle. Well, we'll surprise you. Bye.