The Viall Files - E520 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - End Of Year Updates

Episode Date: December 28, 2022

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers, to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show. So let’s end the year by getting some last updates from our callers! We bring on our first caller from who originally called in for advice after breaking up with her boyfriend for his refusal to introduce our caller to his family. Getting back together with some red flags still present, our caller wonders how to navigate getting back together with your ex. We then get an update from our caller who wanted to shoot her shot with someone she went on a date with in the past, after this guy is leaving breadcrumbs of interest. We then get an update from our caller who appeared on our episode with Victoria and Greg. Originally calling in because her boyfriend was having trust issues and going through her phone, we get an update if our caller took Nick’s advice to break up with her boyfriend tonight. We also read some updates from our callers! We get an update from our caller who received 89 text messages from her ex, our caller who canceled on due to bad weather, and our caller who doesn’t want her friend coming in to bring her boyfriend.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: Ep#495 10.31.22 Episode Number: Ep#504 - Jason Nash Episode Number: Ep#508 FS w/ Victoria and Greg  Original Episode numbers for read updates: Episode Number: Ep#484 w/ Jason Alabaster Episode Number: Ep#420 w/ Erika Pricilla and Scott Episode Number: Ep#509 GD w/ Katie Maloney “The state of limbo was way worse” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Total Wireless: Total by Verizon is available at http://www.TotalByVerizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another very special episode of The Vile Files Ask Nick Update Special Edition. I hope you all had a very Merry Christmas. For those who celebrate that holiday, happy holidays to the rest. I hope you've enjoyed time with your family and traveled safe. And I hope your 2022 is closing out with a bang. Today's the 28th.

Yeah. Happy anniversary to my parents. Ooh. Yeah. How many years? They got married on the 28th? Yeah, of December. Wow.

In Wisconsin? I feel like. Northern Wisconsin. That is brutal. It's an interesting idea to have a wedding so close to a holiday. Because I had family members do that for Thanksgiving. And I think it was due to like budgetary stuff of like they got a really good rate for the day after but it did kind of make sense because everyone was already there yeah I

don't I guess I never really asked my parents like how was it with Christmas being three days before that but I guess it was they were young I think you know different times I think, you know, different times. I think they knew each other for six months. I don't. It was a very short courtship for mom and dad. But anyway, I don't know if it was like 43 or 44, but happy anniversary to mom and dad. What's up with you ladies? I know we're pre-recording this, so I can't really ask you how your Christmas or Hanukkah was. My Christmas was great. Do you celebrate Christmas too? Yeah, I do. My dad's out of the family is like Catholic

and like heavy quotes just because they're not particularly religious. My parents are, yeah, it's pretty like choose your own adventure as it relates to religion. Did you choose both during the holiday season? When I was a kid I used to think I would be like I'm half Catholic or I'm half Christian and half Jewish.

I would just love more reasons to have a party. Oh, yeah. Oh, the follow-up question was always like, do you get two double presents? It was like, I think I got 1.5 presents, all in all. Yeah, I mean, I got more than one present at Christmas. My parents would just probably divvy it up. Like, these are your Hanukkah gifts and these are your Christmas gifts.

But Hanukkah is like, my family stopped doing gifts when I was probably in high school. But Hanukkah, you give gifts? Oh, yeah. It's a gift thing. Eight nights. When I was a kid, it was iconic.

Get eight nights of presents. And so it's not always big presents. Sometimes it'll be something really small. Like a whistle? Awesome. Why would my parents give me a whistle? I want one. You know, like sometimes it would be something really small. But it was awesome. Like a whistle? Why would my parents give me a whistle? I want one. You know, like the Christmas story, the little wiener whistle?

Yeah. In Santa Claus. That's why he stopped believing in Santa Claus, because he wanted a wiener whistle. And he never got one. You stopped believing in this? No, that's the movie. Oh, yeah. Santa Claus, he stopped believing because he didn't get a wiener whistle.

I was like, he got you too? I am going to buy Nick a wiener whistle. Is it just a whistle that's shaped like a hot dog? Yeah. Okay. God bless. Do we all get wiener whistles? Yeah, not a penis.

Or as I would say, a... A pepenis. A pepenis. A pepenis. But now you're Italian? Well, that's what came to mind when i said penis all right moving on i can't have you say penis this early that many times i brought it up it's like no penis before 9 a.m i was gonna bring

some morning sex yeah i just think the word penis is too clinical for this time of day. What would you prefer? Dick and balls. Okay. Wow. All right. Well, in the spirit of our update special, Allie graced us a trending topic, I guys, on TikTok, the dating raps where people so graciously reviewed their dating experiences of 2022, how they met, who were they, what kind of dates they were, who ended it.

Yes. Shit like that. Yep. So do we need some theme music or anything like that? Allie is still single. We'll probably insert some theme music. Why like that? Allie is still single, but she's trying. We'll insert some theme music. Why?

When I just gave you that masterpiece. Okay. Well, that's an option, too. Take it away, Allie. All right. The year of our Lord, 2022. I believe, and I'm saying that I might be wrong. I might have forgotten someone, but I believe there were seven gentlemen, seven men in my life. Seven dates?

Not seven dates, seven people. Seven people. Seven people. There was almost eight. Seven first dates. Yes. There was almost eight. Someone asked me out that day ago, but I only have one free night left in the year and it's tonight.

So I said, no, we have to shove you to the next year. You only have one night? Yes. Why do you only have one night available left in the year and it's tonight. So I said, no, we have to shove you to the next year. You only have one night? Yes. Why do you only have one night available? Every other night is booked. Doing what? You want me to walk you through my December? I'm kind of curious.

Okay. Like that's. Tomorrow I have Christmas dinner and drinks with a friend. Okay. Thursday I fly to San Francisco. I fly in late Saturday night because we have improv on Sunday. Then I have a charcuterie board night Sunday night. What's in San Francisco?

My friend's 25th. Okay. Then we're in studio on Monday. Then we have a Zoom call at 4 p.m. on Monday. Then I go to take a red eye out of Burbank to New York. I land at 6 a.m. in New York on the 20th. I fly out on the 22nd at 11 a.m. I go to MSP.

I'm in Minnesota from the 22nd through the 28th. I then fly to Denver for New Year's and I fly back here on the 1st. So I did not have any time for him. Yeah, I hear you. That's fizzy. So he'll be in the next year wrapped. Anyways, seven men. Wedding guy. What do we think of seven?

Is that... What? I was impressed by myself. Okay. I was very impressed by myself. Do you have a goal for 2023? Absolutely not. Wedding guy, because he kind of dangled back from the year before. Gym bro, restaurant expert, promising young man, Canadian surf bro. You can't call him promising young man anymore. I didn't come up with it.

I stand by it. I did not come up with that. Comedy guy, Hanukkah party man. Those are their names. Whatever happened to Hanukkah party man? Yeah, is there an update? Yes, we just ended things last evening. We'll get into the data.

Okay. The meetings, how they occurred. Three were happenstance. We should play some like background jazz music, like some stock music or some sort of background music, Derek, for this. Like, you know what they do on NPR when they're playing the market numbers? You know, they're like, the Dow Jones Industrial. Anyways, we should shut the fuck up and let Allie talk.

Thank you, guys. This is my rap. Three were happenstance. Four were on hinge. First dates. Five were going to a bar or going out somewhere. Two were FaceTimes. The dates range from one date to three-ish dates.

It's hard with Promising Young Man and Wedding Guy because it was all long distance, so I didn't really know how to categorize them. But typically between one and three. How many had a toothbrush at my place? Two. How many have I cried over? Promising Young Man.

Two. And who else had a toothbrush? Shockingly enough, Comedy Guy. I knew it. Just because he knew it. I had a hunch. Yep. How many have I cried over?

Two. How many? Who else did you cry over? Jim Bro? No, Wedding Guy and Promising Young Man. I do remember you crying about Jim Bro when we were trying to shoot that. I did. You're right.

You weren't crying over Jim Bro when we were trying to shoot that. I did. You weren't crying over Jim Bro. You were crying just for frustrated. I was very frustrated. He was kind of, yeah, like the stimulus, but not the... I don't want to get... He doesn't deserve... Yeah. It wasn't like...

He doesn't get your tears. I wasn't like heartbroken over him when it ended. How did things end? Three, explicitly clear cut. We are done. One, ghosted. Two, said they didn't want to be exclusive. So I said goodbye. I'm missing one. That's only six. Did not count. Oh, did you put Hanukkah? Yeah, that wasn't explicitly. Okay, hold on. So wedding guy didn't want to be exclusive. Gym bro ghosted. Restaurant expert, I said no.

Promising young man didn't want to be exclusive. Gym bro ghosted you? Yeah, Canadian surf bro was like, I just want to fuck, but if you want a relationship, that's okay too, just won't be with me. And I was like, goodbye, sir. Comedy guy ended things explicitly and then he asked for an exit interview.

Hanukkah party was very pleasant. Text me back at like 5.45 this morning. yeah yeah yeah hanukkah party man was this morning so do you think it's a coincidence that the two men correct me if i'm wrong that you cried over were people that i you met through your family i mean those were just like the only like longer actually like relationshipy ones i think i know but like those were the two people you met through your family and feel like we're set up by like we're set up. I don't know. I think that's interesting.

Well, I mean, nice wrap. I need you to reflect. I want what is something that a high and a low and something that you want to make an adjustment on, given the data that you presented to yourself. Oh, my. Well, FaceTime dates are a great way to just either make the first date easier or cut them off at the knees and say no. What's something vulnerable that you would want? I don't know. We have time.

I'm like literally staring at this. I don't know. Come on. Like, what am i supposed to say come up with something of what something i just like i don't know what to say i don't know what you want you can come up with something oh you know how i don't know if they did it this year but you know how spotify did like taste breakers where they were like this is these are all the genres you did listen to and like here's a genre you didn't listen to. So you could be someone like a taste breaker, someone who you haven't dated anyone like this year

that maybe you're looking to attract in the next year. Try out. It could be more dates. It could be less dates. It could be more FaceTime dates. It could be how you break up. Anything. Just come up with something.

I guess I could say more dates, but I don't necessarily want to go on more dates. I feel like I'm kind of just tapped more dates, but I don't necessarily want to go on more dates. Okay. I feel like I'm kind of like just like tapped. Tapped? Yeah. Seven exhausted you? Well, it's just one of those things where- It can be exhausting, I feel.

I'm fully aware of how exhausting dating can be. I've been on dating apps since I was 20, and I've never had anything like literally go beyond two or three dates from a dating app. So I feel like I'm just like, it's kind kind of hard to I think the key is getting real weird like like the finding a joke that like you like feels like it would be way too risky and embarrassing to say on a first date that's like very goofy and very like your sense of humor I feel like having a weed out course kind of joke is like the way that I found the most people who I like vibe with. How much have you gone out of your comfort zone when you date? I mean, the Canadian surf bro, I don't even want to talk to.

You made me go on that FaceTime date. I didn't. I was like, I know exactly who this person is. I didn't make you do anything. I was highly encouraged. Sure. There's a huge difference. When I was a kid, my mom had this concept of a polite demand, which is when she would

phrase it as a question. But if I said no, she was like, Amanda, that wasn't a question. That was a polite demand. It sounds like maybe we have some polite demands happening. No, I did not have a polite demand. It was a strongly encourage. Yeah. With a totally fine to say no.

That was not the same as mom politely demanding. It was a bit manipulative. No. You don't think so? No, no. I think it was like a way of like, because I feel like with adults, like it's very abrasive.

How did you receive that as a child? Did you do the polite demand? Yeah. Yeah, I did. Maybe with some like guff or like, what is that? Is that a word? Guff? Or like I gave him like guff or like what is that is that a word guff or like i gave him some guff i know you stomped your feet and huffed and puffed and said i hate this family i don't think have you ever done that yeah i one time told a nanny i hate you and everyone in your

family plot twist that's a nanny nope it was my cousin so that was a cute moment yeah so it was everyone and i will never live that down. I did kind of the opposite. How old are you? Five. You'll never live that down? Well, it's funny because I said I hate everyone in your family and we're related. Sure.

That's the joke. But you were five. Yeah. I did the opposite because when my parents would put me in timeout, I would wail. I would be like, I want mommy. I want daddy. I want baby Jacksonson like i would like call for my family when i was being disciplined by your parents yes you're being disciplined by mom and dad yes and i would still i would still be like i just want to be with the family oh my god did it work i mean i think i think it won points in terms i think it won maybe some like child charisma points, but no. What was your – what was corporal punishment in your family's house?

Something that's really interesting to me is that – so my parents have this like – like their favorite story is when Jackson, my little brother, was like maybe one and a half or two. They tried to put him in timeout and they were like, or like, they were like, Jackson, you can't do that. If you do, you'll go to timeout. He does it again. They're like, okay, Jackson, now you have to go to timeout for 10 minutes. And he like looked them dead in the eyes and went, make it 10 and like walked away. And he's like, he's like a quiet kid. Like this is not like an angry, aggressive guy. And so my mom, whenever she talks about that, she was like, yeah, we realized right away. We were like, that kind of punishment is not going to get through to him so we had to pivot what they do i would have been like all right 30 they well they definitely like made him time out it's like

go to your room it's like depending on what's in the room i think did you guys get the corner yeah it's usually on a stair or something oh i feel like the corner was the worst I feel like I was in the room no that's see you had to put your face in the corner well they struggled to find something that would like get through to me

because I was the worst at making my bed and the only thing that really affected me as a child was being charged money so they would charge me

every morning that I didn't make my bed and one morning I was so tired that I walked down to the counter and I just slapped a bunch of quarters in front of my dad. And I was like, keep it. And then what'd they do? It's not happening today. I mean, I literally just had to like pay if I didn't want to make my bed, but I was such like so stingy with money that I was, that was like, it hurt me deep down. How much did it cost you not to make your bed?

I don't know, like a dollar or something. A dollar? Yeah. What kind of allowance were you getting? $5 a month. So that doesn't add up. I know. Well, by that time, I had accrued a decent amount of savings.

I worked as a dog walker. You know, I had side hustles going on. Hustler's going to hustle. All right. I was refereeing youth soccer at age 12 and it was terrible. So worst job in the world for a people pleaser to be a referee.

Oh my God. It was a nightmare. It was so scary. I hate it. I would have like deep anxiety attacks. What did your family do? Do you have a story of

you getting punished or like you like as a kid we got the corner being a nuisance. They used to line up for spankings. Oh yeah. This is way back in the corner. Being a nuisance. We used to line up for spankings. Oh. Yeah.

God. This is way back in the day. Yeah. My uncle one time sassed off to my grandma because he was like in high school and way taller than her. And he was like, what are you going to do about it? Like, it's not like you can spank me. You bet your ass that woman whipped him across her lap.

And it was humbling. Like 17 or something. Oh my. Yeah. It was way back was humbling. Like 17 or something. Oh, my. Yeah. It was way back in the day. Yeah, I bet. Well, we have a great episode for you. We have some good updates.

Really, some good ones. I hope you guys enjoy this special episode. We'll be figuring out what we're doing with the update shows in the new year. But get excited. Some exciting things to come. We just want to express our gratitude to all of you for listening to us this 2022 year. It's been fun. We've had some great episodes and some great guests, and it's just been a ton of fun to be with you guys three, sometimes four days a week.

We really appreciate it. We know, I feel like the, I always feel like a pilot. We know you have a lot of airlines to choose from, and we just thank you for choosing us. Thank you for flying Vile Files. But seriously, it means a lot that you guys listen to the show and support the show and talk about the show and tell your friends. And it truly means the world to us. And we're so grateful to you guys. And we hope that you continue to stay with us into next year.

And we have more exciting and new ideas to come. It's going to be a great 2023. And we're so happy that you guys are choosing to spend it with us. So while we're here, be safe this New Year's. Whatever you decide to do, just remember, don't try to have the most amazing night. Just try to have a night. Have some fun, whether you're with someone or without.

It doesn't matter. It's just a night. It's just a day. Stay safe. Appreciate whoever you have by your side, whether it's a friend or a loved one or a stranger or a pet or a pet you know and if you want to go to bed before midnight go to bed before midnight it's fine no one cares if you do have anything uh exciting or traumatic uh or awful happen to you on this new year's eve we'd love to about it. So send in those stories or questions at asknick at castmedia.com, cast with a K. And we will be excited to read and have you

come on and talk with us. It'll be a lot of fun. So make sure to do that. Also, if you are looking to start the new year outright and your relationship life has been filled with ups and downs. Don't forget to read. Don't text your ex happy birthday. Maybe that last second holiday gift you forgot to give to a friend. Maybe pick them up a copy of the book. I promise you'll enjoy it. Anything else, ladies? Let's get into our updates. Let's get to our updates. When it comes to choosing a wireless plan, you're forced to compromise. But what if you didn't have to? What if you could get reliable service without a contract and save money?

Introducing Total by Verizon, a new no-contract, no-credit-check carrier for you and your family with plans starting at just $30 per month on America's most reliable 5G network. Sacrifice nothing, experience everything. Total by Verizon is available at totalbyverizon.com and at retailers nationwide. Based on first place rankings and RootMetric's first half 2022 5G assessments of 125 metros. Experiences vary, not an endorsement. Welcome back, Kate. Thanks, Nick. How's it going? Pretty good. We'll play a little clip of your call, but remind our audience what your initial

problem was. And then we'll play a quick clip about what advice I gave you and then we'll go from there. Sure. So my ex of two years had not introduced me to his family. Yeah. At all. Yeah. No relationship with his family at all. Correct. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, let's play a clip quick from that call just to refresh our audience of what was said, and then we'll go from there. My boyfriend, who is now an ex of two years, never introduced me to his family, and I'm

wondering if I was too hasty in making a decision to end it with him. Okay. So this ended two years ago, or you dated for two years? I gave it two years. Okay. When did you break up? A month ago today. A month ago today.

Happy anniversary. Thank you. And that was the main reason that you broke up with him is that he never introduced you to his family. It was a reason. There were other reasons as well, but it definitely didn't help. Why don't you give us a little backstory? Sure.

And then we'll go into the questions. For sure. The backstory is an important thing to know is that my ex is from East Africa. I am a white American. He moved here. He was very young with his family. He's been here for over 20 years. Cultural differences were definitely present in the relationship. A lot of them were wonderful and beautiful and added a lot to the relationship. But there are other factors that made it very difficult. Some of them were that the values that we had were similar values, but we equated them differently. He was very motivated with success around career and money, building a future. I'm very focused on just being a good person, following my desires

and my dreams in life, and building a good, happy life. He also had some problems sharing affection. PDA, never held my hand, wouldn't really introduce me as his girlfriend, had a challenging time saying, I love you. All of those are kind of side effects from his upbringing. And then on top of that, yeah, he never introduced me to his family that lived only 10 minutes away. Wow, they lived 10 minutes away. Yeah. And that you never met them. And I'm assuming you asked to have met them at some point.

You clearly have communicated to him why you broke up with him. Sounds like you even gave him multiple chances. Those were his choices. He's an adult. He's educated. He's smart. He is resistant to wanting to grow or heal or both. I think you just unfortunately need to let it go. I think if you wanted to do anything, maybe a letter. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. do anything, maybe a letter. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That you mail or something or email or something like that, something more formal and not part of your traditional communication process. I would be very careful how you write that. Don't worry about it sounding too direct. I would keep it relatively brief. I just want to say, you're ultimately just going to reiterate what you've already shared. And the letter is coming from a place of just how much

you cared about him. And you can say something like, I don't want to assume how you're feeling or hurting or feeling. This isn't for me either. And I'm not trying to say this to make you feel bad. I just want you to know that I did care about you. And this has been hard for me because I had so much hope for us. But ultimately, a relationship can't survive off of hope. As much as I love you, I think maybe just talking about what he didn't give you is important because you could say, as much as all these things, you made me feel this, you made me feel great, great, hit him with what you did make me feel. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I want to grow my connection with their family. I want to feel like they can trust me with their heart.

I want to feel like I don't want to constantly have my current relationship suffer from the choices of people I don't even know. Stuff like that. I mean, again, you really have the risk of getting in the weeds with this letter, so be careful because I don't... It's like the goal of this letter should be to articulate how you felt about him, to give him a sense of you didn't abandon him. And what's our update? you didn't abandon him. And what's our update? Well, against all possibilities, he actually reached out and wanted to start seeing me again. Okay. Yeah. And I had broken up with him like four or five times at that point. And we didn't speak for two months. And then he reached out and started actually taking accountability for things and was really vulnerable and emotional.

And we started seeing each other again and then all hell broke loose. Where are we now? Now we are, as of the last two days, seeing each other again and again. Oh boy. Okay. Yeah. So if I'm understanding this correctly, you called in,

I gave you sage advice, which was, I think you're fine. Maybe we need to let this guy go. Some version of that to no surprise of anyone's, uh, he reached out and, and said the things he needed to say to pique your interest. And how much, my question to you is how much, and no judgment here, because I've been in your shoes multiple times, but how much did you push back when he was coming to you and saying, hey, I'm going to take accountability and saying the things you wanted him to say how much did you discuss that or or did you just kind of be like great i'm finally you're finally saying it i'm going to receive it how much did you like

push back have dialogue around whether the things he was saying were coming from a a genuine place yeah yeah um a decent amount i didn. I didn't see him in person for about a week and a half after he started reaching out. We went back and forth quite a bit. And my biggest concern was that there were a lot of things he needed to do for himself and that I didn't want our relationship to take the place of him doing that work for himself. So I questioned him a lot on that. And then he definitely has some serious trauma around the breakups and understandably and rightfully so. The breakups that you two had.

Yes. Breakups that I initiated. So we talked a lot about that. When you say trauma, what do you mean by that? He is definitely the kind of person where when he gets in a relationship, he is like 150% committed to it. And I've broken up with him. Well, I mean, he didn't introduce you to his family.

So yeah, yeah. I'd say more like, I don't know, 83%. True, true, true. Yes, true. Well, he, I guess when he walks into a partnership he is like i'm i am in a partnership and um i had ended it with him a few times before that and he started to really have you know kind of like anxiety and trust issues around me saying okay let's try this again and then him kind of being like i don't want to be abandoned again yeah i hear that yeah yeah when you said trauma though i was just like i i didn't

that like that triggered me in a way um only because i think we associate the word trauma with the word victim right and i'm sure he felt victimized to a certain extent. But when it comes to relationships and dating and breakups specifically, people have a right to set boundaries, enforce them, move on. And at the risk of hurting someone's feelings or disappointing them. When you say trauma, it implies that you did something and now you need to like make up for what you did. And I think that's something often when people get back together, run the risk of that type of energy. You know, I kind of, I actually, I wrote about it in my book, how like when we want someone back, we won't care about like, you know, what they did or didn't do. And we don't care about like

any of that. And the ego doesn't care about what it costs us it'll just deal with the cost later and usually that cost is once we get what we want we get the relationship back then our ego's like remember the time you hurt me remember the time you did this to me remember the time x y and z and like we just can't can't do that so just be mindful of that language that you know that either you're using or he's using or you guys are using together because while he has the right to be sad and frustrated, you also had a right to enforce a boundary and walk away from a relationship that you didn't think was healthy. of respecting that decision you both made. And he needs to be able to respect the fact and see the fact that you didn't leave just to like fuck with him or hurt his feelings

or to trauma him. You weren't being a bully. You were taking care of yourself. And he needs to recognize that so he doesn't weaponize that pain that he felt in future conflict. Yeah, you're literally saying everything that I feel very much so. And I've expressed that to him a few times now because he's brought that up. And he started initially when we were

reconnecting, I could tell that he was feeling my absence a lot in his life and didn't really realize how much he would feel that. And I approached him initially saying, you know, I'm concerned that you're going to weaponize my decisions against me for a long time. And I need you to know that I didn't just wake up one day and decide like, oh, it'll be fun if I break up with you today. This was, you know, a well thought out and like needed to act on situation. Yeah. Does he also recognize the pain that you experienced weighing that decision? I don't think he did initially.

I think he felt like his ego was definitely involved with his, with a lot of that. And I've expressed that to him as we've reconnected in that, you know, I was also destroyed and didn't, you know, eat and didn't whatever for a month and, and leaned on heavily on people and, you know, couldn't work and all of that. I think he has definitely like in a part of his ego, really kind of assumed the space of victimization. But I took as many steps as I could in the beginning to really say, hey, if we start talking to each other again, if we start seeing each other again, that doesn't mean that this is going to happen. And that doesn't mean that this is going to lead into another relationship.

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raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making art. Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple.

Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV.

Dude, this is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice bravo bros good job um and like the problems we had are still problems and those need to be addressed first and foremost gotcha so okay so he reached back out you guys started talking again and then you said everything kind

of blew up and then it's um and then you and then when i said what's going on now you said well we're back together again again so like what what happened so we basically started speaking we spoke for about a week 10 days before we saw each other in person and then basically once we saw each other again in person it just like ramped up really quickly and i think both of us us were, were like, it was the weekend, it was the week of Thanksgiving. So nobody was here. We had a lot of time. We weren't working all of that. I think at the end of it, we both kind of stood back and we're like, Oh shit, this moved, this moved really quickly. And we haven't addressed any of the things we needed to. So we had a conversation after that week and he actually brought up a situation that had happened.

after that week and he actually brought up a situation that had happened and i would love to get your take on this because i this is crazy so a year ago i was i'm gonna do this house sitting gig he was supposed to help me with it he backed out of it a little bit before i was upset um and this was he basically waited a year to ask me to be his girlfriend so i was holding on to some like there was some ego stuff in there for me as well, kind of feeling, you know, like, choose me, choose me. Anyway, long story short, I ended up telling him after he decided not to do this with me that the woman's house that I was taking care of had like an attractive son. And that came from a very, you know, painful place inside of me. And I wish I hadn't said it, but he really like took that and ran with it and was like,

I don't know how you could say that. I don't know why you would say that. What's your motivation for that? He brought that up that this whatever weekend when we were reconnecting as like a moral failure on my part that it like said a lot about me as a person. And I was like, okay, so if you're holding on to that from over a year ago how long that was his language it said that's yeah pretty much he was like this is like i would never do anything like that i would never say anything like that

and that really shows who you are he's never said anything to hurt your feelings oh yeah plenty of times okay did you it was enlighten him on that because that's what because that's what happened he you felt insecure you felt frustrated low character moment for you sure a little toxic whatever we've all done this right we've unfortunately we hurt the people we love the most sometimes and we get to, we know them the most. And when we're frustrated, we'll say things that we, you know, we'll hurt them. And that's great that you recognize that. But to say, you know, people in relationships say that all the time. I would never say that.

Well, maybe you wouldn't, right? That's a very, cause, and they're thinking about the very specific thing you said. So it's like, great. Well, but what you did was you were petty and you tried to hurt him. And I'm sure he's been petty and tried to hurt you and had to apologize for that. And, you know.

Yeah, exactly. So I kind of- Did you bring that up to him? Yeah. So I brought that up to him and was like, you know, we've talked about this many times, you know, a year ago when this happened and I brought it up again, it was like, you know, that was a different version of me. That was a different version of our relationship. I can't take it back,

but it does concern me that, that you still think of it so deeply like that. And that concerns me thinking about how you're going to approach the breakups moving forward. if that is still a big thing in your heart um you know i don't know if you want to actually work on moving past the distrust and um the resentment that you have built up what do you say towards me he basically was like it's going to take time well all due respect i don't think you have time to give him yeah so that's been what's he doing right now in the room can we no he's not here sounds like a good mediation i know yeah so one and on the mediation part he has agreed to couples therapy which is a really really really big i was gonna ask that so big step yeah that's a huge step because i honestly i i was about to say like you should

do that and if he's not willing i feel like that's a non yeah it should be like a non-starter i agree yeah so you know how i feel about getting back together with exes not super positive there are exceptions to every rule but if you want to be the exception to the rule you have to you have to go out of your way to put in the work uh and not just hope that things will magically change you know know, when you brought this up to like, you started the conversation by saying, oh, he's the type of person is like once he's in, he's 100% in. And, you know, I made the joke about him. Oh, by the way, have you met his parents?

That's that's going to take just a little while longer since we've got to kind of like he basically at this point. And it remind me why the parents are such a big deal to him that you can't like literally be like, hi, I'm Kate. My parents meet people all the time. Yeah. So part of it's cultural. And then the other part of it is he was in a relationship years ago in which his ex was living with the family.

There was some disrespect on her end, all of that. And so he's got some, and he really, really values his family so much. So he's kind of like, if I introduce you, that's because I see a future with you. That's too much pressure. That's a lot. It's just. It's a lot. You know, meanwhile, you're like, I don't know.

I'm introducing. That's bullshit, I think. it's too one-sided i you know like listen at the end of the day like if you love him and you have a great relationship ultimately like his family doesn't have to matter but we're also talking about a guy who's whose family clearly is a big part of his life. So what happens if you don't feel connected to this family? He's treating it as if when I'm ready to marry you, then I'm going to introduce you to my family. And I'm just going to assume that you're fine with everything. But there's no checking in about how you felt about meeting his family. Yes.

That's a little... Yeah. Yeah. yeah. So I, so I brought that up with him after we had that conversation about trust. It spiraled into a lot of other things. We didn't talk for a day or two, and then we kind of went back and forth fighting over texts for a few days. And I could tell that he was afraid. I think something I said that night, he was afraid that I was going to end it again and got really like, I can't believe you're quitting on this again. This is what all you do. And when things get hard, you quit.

And, and I was trying to say to him, you know, there's a difference between being in a volatile relationship and quitting a relationship. And this is turning into a volatile relationship. And well, cause I'm getting the

impression from him like what i was saying before and i think there's a lot of i think more traditional people more conservative people have this mentality it sounds like he's on the more traditional conservative side of things is my guess um and it's not even like a criticism i mean i guess it's a bit of a criticism but and i i used to be like this right and i think most people are like this to a certain extent but this idea of like once i'm say i'm in i'm all in like that's a great quality to have right but there's an implication like that there's a reason why we marriage is what marriage is a ceremony and everything leading up to that point there's a reason why you're not married you know there's a reason why we marriage is what marriage is a ceremony and everything leading up to that point there's a reason why you're not married you know there's a reason why when you get engaged

you're not married you know what i'm saying or when you date you're not engaged right because like otherwise just get married and not have all the options to leave but like he's implying by saying well once i'm in i'm in that you there's no in. There's no like rapport building or getting to know each other. There's no familiarizing ourselves or working on issues or couples therapy. It's just like, well, you said you're going to be my girlfriend. I said you're going to be my boyfriend, you know, and to death do us part. And it's just like, wait, what? No, like I don't.

I've grown not to like you. I've grown not to love you. Or you started treating me differently or you started not prioritizing me as much, or you didn't live up to your promises, or whatever the list of reasons that can happen. And it doesn't sound like he has this mentality that, again, I have, that I think you wake up every day and decide whether you want to be in a relationship or not. And that can be scary. But I think that really motivates you to try to be your best self for the relationship and I think I think you guys are disconnected on how you're seeing relationships because I'm gathering that you're trying to see relationships the way we talk about it I

don't have you read my book I don't know I'm not sure yeah you have okay I've read the parts of it that are yes yeah maybe have him read it at least to try to get you on the same page of what you're how you're approaching relationships yeah because he's approaching relationships in a very kind of very old school very traditional like i i'm a man of my word and he's trying to be very righteous like i i can really understand where this guy's coming from i think i i there's been parts of me that have been him before. I think a lot of people who grew up and grow up in traditional kind of conservative families and that's great. I love the fact that I wanted to be a man of my word and I wanted to like, hey, if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to follow through and no matter what. side of that. It has to be healthy. You have to communicate. You have to work through things. You can't just muscle through love. You can't do that. And I think a lot of people try to do that,

especially when they're not even married. I mean, you're going to have to muscle through love and marriage at some point, at some point in relationships. But he is treating like your dating situation, like once he agrees to introduce you to his family or date you, like you're essentially married. Yeah. And no matter what happens, we're just going to muscle through it. And it sounds to me like you're trying to, you know, communicate these expectations you have and try to enforce healthy boundaries. And so that you guys, you know, and he's not grasping that concept almost. It's just, I think it sounds to me like he's still very much stuck

in how he sees, I think you guys are seeing how relationships should be very differently at its core. And I think the reason why you're experiencing even these problems now is despite the love that is there and despite how much you guys missed each

other, the same problems are arising. And unless he or you get on the same page of how you guys see relationships from like a 30,000 foot view, I think you're always going to have a problem. He needs to say, you know, he needs to recognize from your standpoint that you can't predict the future, that you know what, you can't predict whether you guys are going to make it or not. And you're not going to make empty promises. But what you can promise him today is that you do love him, that you do want to make it work, and you're willing to do everything possible that's healthy to make it work. And as long as he's willing to do everything possible that's healthy to make it work. And as long as he's willing to do the same, there's a shot there.

That's all you can promise each other. And he wants more of that. He wants this kind of unconditional loyalty. And he has a right to that, but you have a right not to want that either. Because his version of that you know doesn't necessarily include healthy boundaries sometimes you know it's just like well this is how it's going to be you know and then he you know there's oh you know and he can't bring up every you know bad relation like he just he's got to let shit go you're dealing with shit you used

to do in the past then you're dealing with shit his ex-girlfriend used to do it's just a lot yeah with shit his ex-girlfriend used to do it's just a lot yeah it's a lot yeah no that's i appreciate all that i hadn't really i hadn't really thought about that before that angle of it which part um in the difference of how we see relationships yeah and that's what i'm hearing i think it's you have some very fundamental differences of how you're approaching dating and relationships. And he, I'm gathering, he's approaching it from a very traditional, like, I find a woman, I tell her I love her. And then once I tell her I love her, I do everything I possibly can to make her my wife. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And it's like, it's that simple. Yeah. And you're thinking, well, sure. Yes. But I want to make sure while we're doing that, that we're developing healthy communication styles. We're learning about each other. We are, you know, again, setting expectations and boundaries. We are stepping back and assessing whether this is really healthy and figuring out the best way to move forward. We're waking up every day and deciding whether we want to make this relationship work or not. And instead of weaponizing our frustrations and fears, if we do have frustrations, we

do it in a more productive and healthy way. And again, couples therapy can help you get to that place. But I hope, I'm curious what his expectation of couples therapy is. I don't think he really understands it or really knows. It's a cultural thing. Therapy is not a thing. So I've explained it to him, and I think he gets it more. And I did tell him this past week after we had a good conversation that that was an expectation. after we had a good conversation that that was an expectation that it was like we're not going to be able to move forward if you're not open and willing to do this with me because we need

a mediator in the room to be able to help translate for each other um what needs to be heard so um but i'm curious to know if you have any so one thing I asked of him was that so we the reasons why I broke up with him so many times continued to persist after the breakups um and so coming back into this this time I've made it clear to him that I'm not going to like tolerate those same issues being issues and so we have to address those first and foremost and work on those together to finally kind of like squash those to the best of our abilities. So I basically told him, let's sit down together and I need you to write out the things that you feel like I need to do to support you in a relationship. And I'm going to do the same for you. And then we need to set benchmarks for these and we need to see each other working on these and we need to see each other

addressing these so that we don't come around for the bazillionth time with the same issues and how did he respond to that he he was very accepting of it um yeah he was accepting of it he thought it was a great idea so basically we had this conversation the other day where we got into this it was the height of this like week that we had been fighting and it crescendoed to a whole other level for both of us and he ended up calling me and I didn't pick up the first few times I finally picked up because I'm so mad and he was like hey we should never have been talking about this over text in the first place I should have called you days ago when I like felt this spinning out of control let's talk talk. Um, so we ended up

talking for four hours and we ended up having this conversation we should have had many months ago and which we both were just really vulnerable about the ways that, you know, we made, we had made each other feel, feel over this past year together and all these things. And I expressed to him how, you know, lonely I'd felt in our relationship and, um, how not being a part of his family meant that I didn't know half of who he was and I couldn't see into our future because I, you know, that's such a big part of it. And, um, he heard me and I heard him when he talked about the pain of, you know, the breakups and what they had done to his feelings of worthiness and partnership and all of that. And we just had this like it was challenging in the beginning to get there. But we ended up with, you know, a few hours of really honest, really wonderful, like healing conversation.

And at the end of it, decided to take slow steps forward. And part of that was, let's focus just on us for the immediate future and finding our connection again. And I talked to him about the parents very clearly and was like, this needs to happen, ASAP. But I also understand that we need to find our footing again before that can be a comfortable introduction for both of us. Yeah. I feel like the ex-girlfriend can no longer be an excuse for him. Oh yeah, totally. You know, that's just not fair. I mean, listen, you're putting in a lot of work for a relationship that has a lot of red of, of broken things. Yeah.

Like, listen, I love my life. I couldn't be happier with where I'm at. It's been a great journey. And ultimately I have no regrets. And I was definitely someone who exhausted my options and then some so that I could have the like peace of mind that I did everything I could to fight for this relationship long after I maybe deep down knew it was there. I'm just only saying this because you're clearly like, you're just, if this doesn't work out eventually, what you need to promise yourself is that you're not going to beat yourself up for the time that you invest in this relationship.

And the time that you invest in this relationship cannot be an excuse for you to continue to stay in even longer. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think you really need to think about that, you know, fight all you want, do the healthy things. You know, if it's going somewhere, if there's, if there's, if there's, if it has a, an ounce of life in it, fight, but like do not, when, when you say to yourself, I've just worked so hard, I just don't want to walk away, you know it's time to really live. That's when you're hanging out of the wrong things. And then if you do walk away, don't beat yourself up for trying or think about how much time you wasted. That's just a wasted exercise. So I'm only saying that because there's you know, there's a chance you might face

those dilemmas. Yes. I'm, I'm in my thirties. So I feel you for sure. I feel I have that clock in the back of my brain and. Yeah. You got to accept that you're making, you're making this choice and you're taking this risk and good for you for taking it. Follow your heart. But don't make a bad situation worse if it doesn't go the way you want by questioning why you chose to do this. You're doing it. Yeah. Accept it. Move forward.

It's your choice. There's no right or wrong. If there's something inside you who wants to fight for this, so fight for it. I wouldn't be super optimistic about some incredible growth or change in his part in the short term so i'm just being real with you i think it's awesome that he's going to couples therapy and let's i just hope that he's if he really wants to be in this relationship he really needs to like accept how you see relationships and how you approach relationships. I literally, I haven't read the book, not because I want him to like learn,

but I'm curious of like, if he's on the same page of how you approach situations. Yeah. I mean, yeah, definitely. I think we're on, on different sides of that. It's not about you quitting every time it gets hard. It's you not being willing to just muscle through love and not being able to like work through issues and come to some compromise more often than not, as opposed to having conflict happen, getting in a big fight, and even after the fight, feeling like you have accomplished nothing and feeling more distant than connected after the big fight only to come back or after a couple days just because you're exhausted and you're just like let's not fight anymore let's just pretend that didn't happen you know what i'm saying like i know

that what i'm saying is a very like relatable thing but you have to be able to like get through conflict uh without going through world war three every time you're just having a hard time letting go to someone you have so much history with is what i think yeah give it a shot but like just have a short leash yeah yeah do couples therapy immediately and okay and see where it goes. Okay. Yeah. It might only cost you three or six months, but after six months, if things aren't drastically different, pull the plug.

Call it quits. Okay. God, that's going to be an interesting one. He'll be fine. All right. Okay. All right. Awesome. Take care. Thanks, Nick. All right. My pleasure. All right. Okay. All right. Awesome.

Take care. Thanks, Nick. All right. My pleasure. Bye-bye. Bye. So do you guys remember the caller from episode 484 with Jason Alabaster? Her ex sent her 89 texts in a row, and she didn't really, you know, she wanted to be amicable and friendly, but didn't really want to encourage those types of messages moving forward.

See, that's nuts. 89 in a row. Yeah. That I can say, never done. Great. I'm Ryan. I'm 28 years old and I have a texting dilemma I would love some help with. All right.

What is the dilemma? My ex, we broke up sometime in June and we haven't spoken since. I let him know I'm the one who broke up with him. I let him know that, you know, whenever he's ready, he can reach out to me and I'll be happy to talk and we can reconnect, maybe potentially be friends. But I let him make that decision himself and when he wanted to reach out. And he did finally reach out to me after like three months of not talking with uh 89 text messages and photos um was it literally 89 or literally okay so it was 89 and now it's actually closer to 100 um yeah this is you guys finding a way and negotiating with each other and yourselves of how to ignore your boundaries and your non-negotiables to get what you want in the moment and not think about what's best for either of you long term.

That's what you guys are doing right now. Yeah. Here's what you say. I'm finally actually getting to these. I apologize. It was just a lot at once and I have been kind of tied up. But acknowledge that you're kind of finally getting to these. Okay. I don't think you want me responding individually to all these messages, but I am down to like have, have a catch up conversation either over a coffee,

coffee, not drinks. Okay. Festival friend. Or, or, or a FaceTime. And that's all you say. And then assuming he says, yes, plan the get together. And before you can meet up with him, be very clear with your own boundaries for yourself and be willing to have an awkward conversation. Assume that he is going to try to get you back in his life. My guess is he will be covert. He will pretend that it's not to like get you back. And he'll probably festival friend it up you know he'll probably try to act super chill and cool and you kind of say the awkward thing is like i

really just wanted to hear you out because you sent me a lot of those messages but like i've been doing some thinking between now and we thought and i think you're the greatest but like i just don't think it's healthy for us and i really don't think it's healthy for me for us to like try to be friends and you can and if you want to hit them with a compliment, say, I care about you and I respect what we had too much to try to minimize it into like something as casual as casual friends. Okay. That makes sense. And that will make his ego feel a little better. So we have an update. I FaceTime my ex like we spoke about, and I only really had 45 minutes to talk. Overall, the conversation went pretty poorly, for which I partially blame myself because I just kind of winged it, and I didn't put much thought into my wording.

I also, quote, gave him space to kind of let it all out, but he ended up just emotionally dumping on me for 40 minutes about his mental health, so it was hard for me to transition into the conversation of not being friends in a super smooth way for the last five minutes. into the conversation of not being friends in a super smooth way for the last five minutes. And next thing you know, I had to jump off the phone call to get to work, and I felt pretty abrupt and guilty about it. So I left him a couple voice notes explaining my reasoning a bit better why I didn't foresee us being friends, and he sent voice notes back saying that he understood and provided reasoning for sending that many text messages.

Which was? I wish we knew. He also asked if I would reconsider the not being friends thing, and I told him no. That brings us to now. He was super upset that I didn't foresee us being friends. Like, super upset. He didn't want to talk to me any further,

and I had a few things he was holding onto in his apartment. Long story. And he demanded I find a way to remove them. In retrospect, I think he was holding onto in his apartment, long story, and he demanded I find a way to remove them. In retrospect, I think he was holding onto these items as an excuse to reach out to me again in the future. That whole blow up made me realize that Nick was deaf's right. He didn't properly mourn the breakup at all, and the not wanting to be friends thing really triggered the mourning process. Why else would he be so upset? We hadn't really talked for months before all this, so that's where

we are now i sent my friends to go get the things out of his apartment and almost everything is out at this point and i feel good about laying a strict boundary okay all right well done thank you boundaries boundaries way to send a friend i would have loved to know his yeah why he saying that he understood and provided his reasoning for sending that many text messages yeah what was the reasoning oh i love it to be something like that was nuts i was tripping i'm sorry there is no reasoning yeah i'm really trying to rack my brain for something, some explanation. Someone stole my phone. Sleevy's heard my side, you know? Like, it was just, yeah, I don't know. Well, we love a boundary.

I don't, I wonder what the items in the apartment are, because she said there was only a few, but now she's saying almost everything's out. It seems like it's a laborious process. Perhaps an armoire. Yeah, I don't know. Was she the best? So she tried a soft breakup with him

and got herself in kind of a sticky situation, leaving the door open for him to keep trying when she knew she didn't really want to try. Hopefully the rest of the stuff gets out soon.

Lay down that groundwork. Send another friend over. Welcome back, Carly. Thank you. Thank you for having me again. Always good to be with you. All right. So last time you called, you were shooting your shot, so to speak.

I was. Remind our audience very briefly what you were doing. Yes. So there was a guy I'd been on a few dates with like almost a year ago. I still had some residual feelings. He had followed me on Instagram throughout the year, certain little breadcrummy things. And I wanted to shoot my shot again. Great, great.

And okay. And then we're going to play a little clip from that call. And yeah, we're going to play a little clip from that call there just to update you guys, remind you. Here's the clip. My name's Carly. I'm 27. And I'm dealing with somebody who's leaving a lot of breadcrumbs and mixed signals and I'm trying to figure out if I should shoot my shot. So I'm coming here for some texting help. Okay. How long have you been hanging out with this person? Give us a little backstory.

We're not currently hanging out. We went on a bunch of dates a few months ago and then he cut it off. Amazing dates, at least in my opinion, it felt like it was mutual. We've seen each other once or twice over the past few months. And after a lot of no contact, he followed me on Instagram and even before then watched my stories without following me. And all these things are kind of adding up to me not knowing what to do. And I think I still have feelings so how many dates did you go on four okay did you hook up not sex not sex okay so you messed around a little bit ran around a few bases okay and then he just like ghosted cut it off or gave you the all like i'm

not sure this is working out type of um we texted a bit but it was like towards the end it was kind of sparse and he like left me on read for two days. And then when he did answer, it was like, I think you're so great, but I just don't see this going anywhere. Okay. And then some time passed. I think you should be super bold. Do what you want. Get it out of the way.

Write a writer. Have Nick. He's the master. Have him write you a great text. Do it. Have no expectations about it. Just be like, this is it. I'm shooting my shot.

This guy is fucking lucky to be with me. And lots of times guys are like a little dumb. Because I know I can. Yeah. Guys are a little dumb when it comes to that stuff. They may not see what's right in front of them. And so if you go in there super strong and just like, this is it. This is what I think.

Take it or leave it, Jack. And then move on. So hit him with the hey, stranger. See if he replies back. And then what's the follow up? I call me crazy or maybe this might seem out of nowhere. But what if he doesn't text back on? Hey, stranger.

You got an answer. True. Ouch. No, but if he doesn't text back on Hey Stranger? Then you got an answer. True. Ouch. No, but if... If he doesn't text back, I mean, give him a day or two. Yeah. But... Wait, but finish that follow-up text.

Yeah, it's some version of, hey, this might sound out of left field, or this might cut you off guard, but what do you say about grabbing a drink sometime? You could keep it that simple. If you wanted to give him a little more information so it's not awkward you could say this might sound like uh a little like out of left field but like it's been a long time since we went out but i still haven't had as good of a time hanging out with someone as i had with you and i'm curious if you feel the same and would you be interested in going out again?

I mean, you're really putting yourself, you're putting yourself, it's a very vulnerable thing for you to say. You're really putting yourself out there. Yeah, so you ended up sending that message that we drafted, right? It was, hey, out of curiosity, wondering if you still feel this way.

Well, it was a reply. It was a reply. You replied to that message. His message was, hey, I think, I'm sorry. It was his message breaking things off, basically. Yeah, but he had followed you and you weren't sure. Yeah, there was a lot. You replied to that message, so he knew what you were referring to.

Hey, out of curiosity, wondering if you still feel this way. Two arrows up. Because if I'm being honest, I haven't had as much fun with anyone else as I did with you on our dates. And if by chance you have a similar feeling, I'd love to get together and grab a drink. Do you want me to read his reply or do you want to read his reply?

I can read it. Okay. Yeah. And then he replied. I think it's also important to say yeah because you sent it yeah two days before you you said you're like it's a big text give him a day or two and it was like two days on the dot nailed it so he replied he apologized for taking so long to answer and then he said i honestly respect you reaching out i've done that once or twice and it takes balls

i would say we're on the same page regarding a good time. I really enjoyed hanging. I do think you are awesome, but for me, it was a gut feeling. And though I'm sure I would have a great time with you again, I just don't know what would change on my end. Okay. Yeah. That like short of him saying yes, that was kind of what I was hoping for. Like very nice, respectful answer. And then you wrote no, Hey, no hard feelings. Of course that would, uh, no, no hard feelings of course that would uh no no worries like for him taking so long hey no worries of course that would be my timing huh yeah and thank you that actually means a lot and i was definitely a scary thing to do obviously not exactly the answer i was hoping for but had to shoot my shot and i'm happy to have an answer

either way yeah listen like what a nice lovely exchange you know like i give him credit like good on him for you know not to like make you feel worse about him not but he seemed like no no that was it was a standard message to empathize like to put himself like i've been in your shoes before and like it's a scary thing to like yeah to like revitalize something that maybe you know he didn't want to end, but the other person did the next one though. Oh, well, well, it's funny because had we like, had we had this conversation, you and me had this conversation like a week ago, I wouldn't have had any more updates than

that. Oh, um, and then, yeah, so that was a very nice exchange. Okay. A good answer. Yeah. It seemed like lovely. It was like, oh, okay, great so that was a very nice exchange okay a good answer yeah it seemed like lovely it was like oh okay great it was lovely and like and then anything i could have wanted and let me ask you before we get another update you did truly feel like happy with the answer even if it was the answer that you didn't have right like yeah yeah just speaking to like getting it's hard yeah it's hard but like yeah i was like okay that's short of him saying yeah let's try again like that was the best case

scenario and i was like proud of myself for doing it i like immediately removed him as a follower on instagram so like i didn't have to see his name all the time yeah and like you wondering if he's why he was following you and it was was you no longer wondering why he was following you for why you know was was better than what i don't know what you get what i'm saying right like being in that state of limbo was the worst was worse so once i had an answer i'm like i can close the chapter now and just be done and move on gotcha okay that's what i was trying to emphasize yeah yeah and then three weeks later okay hey tex two weeks two weeks later but still enough time that we did not need to continue the conversation he just out of nowhere says

sucks i really did have an awesome time with you what no like i can't even explain how pissed off i was when i didn't want to pursue anything i love your response though like at that point i had nothing to lose i was like i'm not gonna i'm calling him out at 11 44 so mad yeah yeah sucks i really did have an awesome time with you you clearly know i feel the same way you turn me down i'm annoyed obviously it sucks i'm gonna fight me i'm gonna fight this man yeah and sucks its own text message like its own message yeah that's a creatures i was so angry like fuming you waited a day uh oh yeah we waited well i was already asleep you waited 12 hours i was asleep and i texted him the next afternoon yeah he wrote i don't know why you're texting me this now it's really just not helpful to either of us in any way like it's not it's not

no it's a great response like i found it really unhelpful like actively unhelpful oh it's awful yeah because like too like i just said you shoot your shot and get turned down for him to say like sucks you're he acts like if the roles are reversed right and two weeks later two weeks later don't say anything. Like I'm already going on. This is a really good response, but you know what? The ultimate response would have been, this seems like a conversation more appropriate for you and your gut and not with me.

Literally. Right. Like I definitely considered given that it was almost midnight, like maybe he was a little drunk. I don't know what the situation was. And then he wrote back the next day, 100% on me, my apologies, enjoy the weekend. Oh, shut up.

Enjoy your weekend. Such a bullshit response. He just didn't want the drama. I don't know. He was probably drunk, feeling lonely. It was literally a... He texted you on a thursday night okay not a weekend night but he texted you 16 minutes before the weekend

yeah right like right friday is friday no i guess yeah yeah yeah yeah to me like texting at all two weeks later is enough of a problem because like i've already started to just like put it out of my head and like you coming back is just unnecessary like leave the conversation alone now if he saying this if he hits you up again with like all right that was fucked up of me to send but like what are you doing on saturday now yeah or before he wrote so now i i don't think so okay like i'm i'm really angry like why angry or now i've kind of i'd rather have you be more like over it not angry no i was really angry when i got this now i'm just like i feel really at peace and done with the whole thing and like after he responded like i was just i was upset i was with my family and i was like venting to my sister and like that night i really couldn't

sleep and i just like started hysterically crying but like once i let it out like now i really feel like it's out of my system and i'm just done there's a silver lining here yeah like he you're not easy to get over you know like thank you that is a compliment he did pay you a yeah you know it was selfish in the worst way yeah no totally but and had he texted me two weeks after a really nice exchange and said like you know what i was too rash maybe we should get a drink then i probably would have said yes all right but just it's just like not to take him off the hook at all but like the reality is you sent him that message out of nowhere he had a couple days to think about it and like he respectfully declined and i get why it's kind of like what would change and like, I don't know.

I don't want to like and it makes a lot of sense to say I had fun with you, but maybe I just didn't think there is a compatibility there. And then you probably got in his head, you know, like maybe he was like, fuck, we had a really good time. Like, fuck, I don't know. And he just had had and that's a compliment but the way he said it is not totally yeah but just know that like you got in his head for at least a couple days maybe even like a little bit for two weeks you know he thought about it on his flight to sydney or wherever the fuck he was going. And it really, you know what I'm saying? It really, it wasn't like a super, it's not like he was like, oh, fuck, so-and-so is reaching out to me again.

Oh, God. Oh, great. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. Stop feathering your cap, if nothing else. Thank you. To me, it felt the same as whatever was or was not going through his head when he followed me on instagram was like the same as sending this text like he didn't give it much thought didn't think how i would respond to it and was just like all right why not and like i'll send it totally which to me is like just

really inconsiderate and not nice yeah i hear you unfortunately i I think get used to it in a sense. Yeah. And I just think nowadays we have – you're not – like 15 years ago, you weren't able to see who followed you and who was liking things and you weren't able to track people from a very far distance without them knowing you were tracking them type of thing, right? And that type of energy, we're not even supposed to have. And so I think people just like, that's out of sight, out of mind. No, he was not thinking, well, if I follow her and look at her

stories, she's going to start wondering if there's something there and thinking that I'm leading her. You know what I'm saying? That's just not how people are. And like, yeah, we can say, oh, I wish they were more considerate. I think we just have to be better at just doing this, like instead of wondering, shooting your shots, getting clarification at the risk of rejection and just, you know, keep encouraging communication and, and, and not guessing because we, there's too many ways to confuse ourselves with dating, uh, you know, with social media and all the dating apps that we're wasting all this emotional energy, wondering and wondering and wondering and fucking with ourselves when we just have to get better at just like, getting our answers and moving on.

100%. Like, I'm so I'm so happy I did this. Because like, I was telling myself to do it for a really long time also. Yeah. And now going forward, I hope in the future, you'll be that much quicker to just seek out the clarity you need in any one given situation. Yeah, exactly. And like, even now, like, because I'm telling you the story, like it's easy to get angry about it, but I do feel like very removed from the whole thing now. Like it just kind of feels like

it was so long ago already. Yeah. Which is a great feeling because I didn't think I would ever have that. So. Well, and you're still probably popping in his head.

So good for you. Good. All right. Well, thank you for the update. Thank you for having me back i appreciate it all right bye-bye bye thanks bye bye bye sucks i have a great time with you i don't like i don't think it was that bad of him i get get why she's upset. It's just so annoying. After you are the one to shoot your shot and get turned down. And then for that, like, what, am I supposed to fucking comfort you? This was your decision.

I would have loved for her to, like, make fun of, like, I would have loved for her to say, that's a conversation you should be having with your gut. Sounds like a you problem. Because he referred to his gut. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, my gut. Yeah. What else we got, Amanda?

Okay. Okay. So this is from the episode with erica and scott and this is windsurf yeah it was a little while ago um it's this windsurf guy we're basically uh that is episode 420 420 um that's right that's. When I met him a year ago or so, I was interested in hooking up with him, but I kind of just wanted to establish friendships. So I kind of just forgot about it. And then I guess, I don't really know what happened. Something came over me. And last weekend, I drunkenly made a move and it worked. And we ended up hooking up. And the next morning, things were like normal and natural. And we were like joking around and we were like cuddling. And then he drove me home. And then we kissed goodbye, which was like weird, but not didn't feel weird. kissed goodbye, which was like weird, but not didn't feel weird. And then the next,

like a few hours later, I guess I was kind of talking to like my friends about it and thinking about it. And I was like, you know, I would do it again, like sober and see if there's anything there. And the, the experience kind of indicated to me that he would do it again. Like there wasn't anything that he like signs he gave me that he was like it again. Like there wasn't anything that he like signs he gave me that he was like, this was a huge mistake. And I, this is really awkward and weird. So I texted him and was like, what are you doing tonight? And he had a friend visiting. So he was like, we're just laying low and we're covering. And I was like, I want to just be straightforward. So I texted him back and was like, okay, cool. Well, if you want to have sex later, let me know.

And I think that we could do a better job. Did you say sex? Yeah. She said, so true. If you want to have sex later, let me know. I think we could do a better job. Okay. You said, I'm so unwell.

It's been a rough morning. What are you up to tonight? You write back. He says his friend and him are keeping it pretty low key. He's still recovering. You wrote so true. You got right to the point. If you want to have sex later.

How quickly in unison did you send them? Because you go so true. And then you said, if you want to have sex then you sent that and then you wrote later immediately immediately okay let me know let me know i think we could do a better job wow straight to the point okay i'll let you know where we end up later oh god i know that's where we're at how long ago was this was this yesterday last weekend so not this past week in the weekend before there's been no contact no contact whatsoever you could say if you're trying to like make it light-hearted is refer to one of your many inside jokes and be like you know what i was thinking blah blah blah blah about our inside

joke also how was windsurfing hope you had fun 100 or like something popped up that reminded me of this yeah if there's an inside joke yeah and then how was how was windsurfing hope you guys had fun yeah totally do we like that better than just simply how was windsurfing i do i think so yeah because then it's like really real conversation yeah it's why you thought about him. It was like the inside joke is like something that brought up the idea of why you thought about him. Maybe like you go on one date, it's very easy for you guys, for people to lose momentum. Personal things come up, work comes up. You guys aren't a priority in each other's lives yet. It's more normal than not normal to like lose momentum this early. So now you're like letting them know why, even though the reality is you actively chose

to kill the momentum, like you're letting him know is more like organic and you were just busy, but now you thought about him. Also, how's windsurfing? I'm really interested in what you have to do. And then he responds and then you hit him with, I'd like to plan that second date.

So this is one where this was a 29 year old who was kind of enjoying single life on the dating app basically met someone they had a really good time on their date and then they had a follow-up date planned but then he flaked on her because the wind he had to serve oh that's right the wind he was looking at the forecast i totally remember that he was like and he sent her like the forecast yeah he's like i promise i'm not flaking look at this wind yes which i remember we were like well he he needs the wind yeah it was like we we bought we bought it so basically and in her original reach out to vile files she was like i'm not sure if he's kind of lost interest because i

think there were like multiple times that he had sort of tried to not follow through with like actually finding a fault. And I remember us not being totally clear because like while like obnoxious, he did have like a potential reasonable, it wasn't like a made up flake excuse. Anyway. All right. What's the update? So here's my update.

After I got back from traveling, I sent a text to him basically cutting it off. We chatted while I was away, but it seemed off. Plus, I was seeing a few other guys, and he was the only one not to make a plan to see me when I returned. My spidey senses were tingling, but he pushed. He said he just had a lot going on but would like to see me again. He asked me out for later that week, and I gave him another shot. We ended up casually dating for around three months. He took me to work parties, invited me out with friends, talked about how his mom would love me, even invited me on a vacation. And he was very consistent for those months, seeing each other a few times a week. stint for those months, seeing each other a few times a week. We never got around to the vacation, period. I just love that sentence. We never got around to the vacation. Eventually, I started to get the same feeling again, that something was off and or he wasn't fully into it. I gave him a call to explain how I felt and check in. He said once again that he just had a lot going on. He apologized

and set a date for later that week. The day of the date rolls around and he shoots me a text. Unfortunately, I lost all my messages, but it basically said he wasn't feeling like himself and whether it was X, Y, or Z, he thinks it's best if we end it. Lots of excuses, lots of fluff. I responded saying, no worries. Thanks for being honest and all the best. I was definitely bummed. Again, I dated around a lot the past couple of years and I was genuinely excited, but it is what it is. saying no worries thanks for being honest and all the best i was definitely bummed again i dated around a lot the past couple years and i was genuinely excited but it is what it is i found out fairly early on that a few months earlier to initially meeting me he had gotten out of a three-year relationship apparently he was pretty distraught about it according to a mutual friend

in hindsight i wish i'd listened to my intuition the first time and stuck with my decision to end it i could sense something was off whether he wasn't over his ex or just wasn't that into me. But I convinced myself that my anxiety about it was butterflies and that maybe this was how people feel when they're really excited about someone. Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm less bummed for her that she didn't trust her gut at first because I feel like the lesson she learned as a result of dating him for these few short months is invaluable because I think it'll hit home for her more going forward. And now she, she knows, you know, and you know, we're not mind readers and we don't really know. And sometimes, you know, people do need to go surfing, you know? And so, but I also want to give her credit for trusting her gut again and checking in like she did. And she kind of, she's the one who initiated him breaking things off

because she asked to check in because she was sensing something was off instead of ignoring it and making excuses for him in her head, she probably saved herself two or three more months of him just kind of conveniently hanging out with her at his convenience and her putting up with it and not asking questions for fear that he might not be feeling it or that she was wrong to give him a second chance. might not be feeling it or that she was wrong to like give him a second chance so i think there's way more positive things from this update than her criticizing herself for giving him another shot it's i feel it feels to me like a reminder that there's often no 100 good answer yeah like she was either gonna do have it go down this way or break it off fully but then maybe have like a wandering like what if,

you know? And yeah, if he could have reached back out, she could have been like, Hey, listen, thanks, but no thanks.

And we can't predict the future. Then two months go by. Maybe she's like feeling a little like, I don't know. Fuck it. I'll hit them up. You know, she needed,

she needed to see it through. She did. And when, if we're going to like, you know she needed she needed to see it through she did and if we're gonna like you know bring things back to life you just have to be willing to check in and trust your gut and not avoid these conversations that she didn't avoid if you're gonna fuck around find out yeah love that good update welcome back tori hi how are you how's your heart better long term okay Welcome back, Tori. Hi. How are you? How's your heart?

Better long-term. Okay. My heart's relieved, to be quite honest. Relieved. Okay. So for those of you don't remember, you were on the Greg and Victoria episode, which, by the way, congratulations. Like everyone in the world heard that. It was, at one point, the 10th most listened to podcast in the world.

Very cool. So I think my friends helped support that too. Everyone heard that story, but, uh, well, so yeah, basically your,

your boyfriend was going through your phone and, uh, deep, deep, deep dived and, and made it seem like it was your fault and all those things. And we told him to break up with you. No.

We told him to break up with – we told you to break up with him. In fact, we said tonight. Break up with him tonight. Yeah. Most of the time, I try not to be – like I try not to – Be prescriptive? Yeah. I might suggest it, but we were, I was,

I was pretty adamant with that one. Uh, and we'll, we'll play a quick clip from the episode just to refresh people's memory. So I'm calling, I've been in a relationship just under a year. Um, like all relationships, trust is very important. My boyfriend and I talk about the importance of having it, building it. Um, But ironically enough, I'm calling in for some advice. He's gone through my phone a couple of times. What he has found is not cheating emotionally, physically. There's no infidelity. He just didn't like what he saw. I do have context behind that, but I kind of guess I'm looking for advice. behind that, but I kind of guess I'm looking for advice going through your phone in general, like just how big of a red flag is that? And then ultimately maybe I need to cut off past flings, exes, relationships, people prior to my boyfriend, because he just didn't like what he found. I think there's a few things more damaging in a relationship than having to constantly defend yourself for things you're not doing. Which is ironic because i am told very quickly that i'm

defensive like i was asked why am i defending these guys in my phone and again it's like one minute it's like you need to explain yourself i'm here to listen the next minute it's like tori you snap back you're defensive so it's like i am defensive because i don't know what i did in a sense yeah so what what are we going to do about that? I mean, he's still your boyfriend. You're apologizing in a sense for being a catch. Yeah. You know, it sounds like that's what it is.

You know, at the end of the day, I think people are going to reach out. It's just there has to be trust. And that's something he has to figure out on his own. I don't know if it's, you know, he has to go through therapy with his you know past trauma whatever happened with his ex but that's a him thing you know that's not you i think you got this i think ultimately you know what you need to do and i think you should just do it do it yeah do. If you were looking for a blessing, you have it. No. And I think you just stay calm and say, like, ultimately, I just don't think we have a healthy relationship. And I just don't want this.

And I don't want someone who's going through my phone. And I don't want to be made to feel like I'm doing things wrong when I'm not. Like, I work really hard on myself. Like, my character matters to me. Like, and if I don't want to like it's it's just not the type of relationship i want to be in and i'm sorry right and if he gives you the i'll change i mean i think you just i mean ultimately you just say i just i just think we should end it it doesn't you know and maybe you will but like change takes time that you're you can say, and I don't have time. I don't have time. All right. So, well, are you broken up or are you still, what's going on?

Yes. So I am single. Well, first of all, it's just, it's really early or else I said pour one out for you. Yeah, that's okay. It's still the work day. Um, walk us through this,

how this happened. Of course. So I would say in my whole lifetime of dating, normally I would drag this out for years. Um, so I think being told, I'm being honest with you. I,

I, I'm glad that you're honest about that. I think that's probably more normal than people realize, as crazy as it sounds. Sure. So knowing that I got the very polarizing, like do it tonight, I think I landed somewhere in between. So this was shortly after Thanksgiving. We had spent some time apart. Things were rocky. We had had the discussion of abusing the trust and whatnot. He knew things were rocky, which I had also shared. It's December 12th for the people who are listening, by the way, because this episode is not going to air to the end of the month. Because I remember

there was a conversation about not waiting till Christmas and the holidays. So good on you. Yes. I'm sorry if I dropped and continue. That's okay. Of course. So ultimately when I was able to see him, I will say like it did linger and I know ultimately lingering, it's not ideal. It kind of started as the whole,

I feel like I'm not even wanted. I sat on my couch. He sat on my kitchen stool. I just reiterated like my lack of feeling appreciated and my trust being abused and all of that. And I kind of let him just leave knowing that I wasn't in a clear headspace, but I ultimately was unhappy. And he had been going on some trips with his friends. So it was kind of out of sight, out of mind. I kind of noodled on it a little bit more, thought things over and

every opportunity that then surfaced since we first spoke, since I first came on the episode, I was just like not getting any, no rekindling interest to start things again. A couple of therapy sessions too, kind of the proof was in the pudding. So your therapist supported our diagnosis? Yes, she did. She did remind me that nothing has to happen any certain time to keep it high level and simple, but again, like selfishly like feel relieved at the end of it, which that's what I was ultimately looking for. So we had to talk in person following his time out of town um and I was very adamant I found myself speaking and approaching this breakup in ways that I again hadn't in my past jokingly like letting bad relationships linger this was probably the quickest I was able to kind of rip the band-aid

off it kind of played out how I thought which is almost tough so we're ultimately I'm just looking for your advice like post breakup into the holidays but he was not at a place to want to take his belongings out of my apartment. And I told him he had to, he was embarrassed packing his things up. He said he needed time to decompress. And I just told him like, I really need you to do all of this now. And I was very clear when I left things that I was just, I was unhappy enough. I was told you're not even giving this a chance. You don't want to make this work. You don't believe in me. I'm ready to change. I'm going to change. He started going to therapy. And I just said like, I'm not at a place to even go back to this like probationary period and try and see what happens. Yeah. Good for you.

So when he's like, oh, you're not willing to work on this blah blah blah what do you remember what you actually said in return or specifically i had told him i was like i'm not i'm just ultimately my unhappiness and my mindset right now is so far removed from feeling love and caringness and happiness that i just i can't see myself in a headspace to make it work um and i told him i don't want it to be some like tick for tack, like, but I'll never do that again. Like I'm so far past that. I just. Yeah. Yeah. I only asked this because I think that those are like pivotal moments in breakups where that person, like in his shoes says that, that, that line or some version of it, like he did, or he tries to put it on you. It's it's like you you quit on us and you know

blah blah blah or you don't want to work on us anymore and again it kind of resonated like you know when ironically it well it wasn't a total coincidence but like when uh you know with victoria greg here that the parallels between your stories i think it's sometimes in those pivotal moments to just affirm what they're accusing you of. And that is to say, you're right. I'm not. I'm not willing to work on it anymore. And kind of be their bad guy.

And I don't think a lot of people are expecting that. But I think it's okay to just say, you're right. I'm not. I was. I did. You can't accuse me of not. But I'm no longer I was. I did. You can't accuse me of not, but I'm no longer. Yes. So that was tough. Again, I'm sad. Don't get me wrong. I'm very sad,

but I know long-term this is good. I would say what's tricky and unique is shortly after he had exited my apartment, my phone was ringing and I was being asked to just come outside quick for one more hug, which was kind of the beginning of what then proceeded to be. That's why I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't even recognize myself because I've done it all too. Like the begging, the pleading. But again, unfortunately I was very clear in the conversation and I've received text messages each night since he had left. Please talk to me. What did I do to deserve this? Can I get a chance to see you? I want to explain myself. And because that happened four times in the last week, I get, he needed me to say something. So I

came up with what I felt like was a really good response back to him after I kind of got a long novel from him telling me he loves me. He's not moving. He's not getting over me. He wants to make it work. He will make it work. And I just reminded him like I didn't leave like on a break. I left with an end to our relationship and to ask him to just stop reaching out. And he responded with some questions. He wanted to know a few more things that I did tell him. So now ultimately I feel like we've moved on. When was the last time you heard from him? It was just yesterday that I allowed the text exchange to go back and forth and he wanted to know how long I was unhappy and he wanted me to be honest

with him. And he said he appreciated. I was, yes. We were the type of couple where for as much as we were together like weekdays and weekends like kind of steady eddie we would always like dedicate like one month a weekend or one month one day of the month excuse me to do like something cool fun and exciting and the last probably four or five date nights ended in like drunk fights and crying and arguing and again a drunk date night on vacation he went fights and crying and arguing. And again, a drunk date night on vacation, he went through my phone. And so just our track record. And he was like, you're so honest and I appreciate it. So I'm single. It would have been one year this Saturday. So I'm getting fondu

with a friend. Your anniversary would have been this Saturday. Yes. Happy anniversary. this saturday yes happy anniversary oh so your book is on its way here well thank you for buying it yeah i think you'll enjoy it yeah i may have to flip to like post breakup chapter i hope there's one in there uh yeah just go right to chapter 10 okay start with chapter one. Okay. Skip to chapter 10. Okay. Back to chapter two. Of course. Yeah. Anyone who buys the book who is going through a breakup, read chapter one, skip to chapter 10, go back to chapter two. Okay.

Yeah. Do you have any other breakup advice? No. I mean, you're going to be fine. Be proud of yourself. I mean, you're going to be fine. Like I be proud of yourself. I mean, like, you know, honestly, um, take stock in this experience. And I, as I always say, and I say in the book, doing kind of these, these things are hard to do. And I think we have to, it's okay to like pat yourself on the back and let you know that you, you did a hard thing and you did it with

grace and you, you, you, you try to be considerate of his feelings, but the ultimately you stood your ground and did what was right for you. And that's not easy to do. And like you said, there was a, there was a time where you would have let this dragged out for months, years, you would have gone through, you know, you would still be with him today. If old you was still like running the show and you would have gone through Christmas feeling unhappy, you would have definitely had a fight or two over the holidays over God knows what. And now you don't have to do that anymore. Right. So when you are feeling down and sad or maybe even lonely or maybe even missing him, you know, or missing what you had or just the comfort of having a boyfriend, just remember this moment and things like that. And when you get back out there and start dating,

you're not trying to replace him or what you had. You know, I think it's the biggest mistake people make. And then you're trying to measure every date up against what you had. And all of a sudden the person that you were so happy to leave gets a little better looking and the situation gets a little brighter because you're comparing it against five shitty dates. So you're not trying to replace him

you're trying to find something completely new and meet new people and just know that it's it's almost certainly going to happen far after you want it to happen of course which is annoying but like what else you know that was the irony like i'm a people like i'm a girl out in the wild type like that's how i meet people, which is always good. Cause I like to socialize. I would say one thing that's interesting is my relationship with like, like going out. Like I haven't seen 1am in months,

years. Like I am not the girl that goes out and parties and drinks anymore. Like, so I feel like that will be a unique aspect. Like drunk first dates are always fun. Like you not lose inhibition depending on who you are. But again, so like, I feel like I'll be reimmersed in a little bit more of a different mindset because I'm so used to like drunk guys at the bars and that's just not me anymore. So.

Yeah. I mean, also like it's fun to be adventurous and do things, but like you also don't maybe have to go back to who you were when you were single before and feel like you have to replicate that now you can you can evolve your dating life you know that's very true and maybe you're looking for a new kind of man who isn't getting that you're not hunting at a drunk bar you know right you know maybe you're right maybe you're hunting in a different field the dog park yeah the dog park at a networking event yeah oh yes you know something like that he has no idea you called in before right i'm assuming no i'd love to talk to him you know i don't even i would just love to hear his side not like uh he said she said but like i of course i really on this show, I wanted, I want,

I want to get more men's perspective. I want to hear the other side. I don't want to, I don't want the show to be like, Oh, we're just like shitting on shitty guys and things like that. I think there's always something to learn in these interactions. And I'd love to, I'd love to hear his, I'd love to hear his point of view and what he wants and what he might learn from this experience and what's next for him and things like that. If you're out there listening to this show, if you have guy friends going through it, they may not be listening to podcasts like this, but encourage them to write in and call in. Another idea that Allie and Amanda and I had, I don't know what we're going to do with it yet,

but if you have old breakup love letters that you've written to yourself or maybe you did or didn't send. Yeah, when you're heated and emotional and your friends tell you, write them a letter and you can decide whether to send it. In your notes app. I wonder if I still have. There's a particular love letter I wrote to my first girlfriend. If my mom might have it because I found it years later and I was really embarrassed. When I go home for the holidays, I want to see first girlfriend. If my mom might have it, because I found it years later and I was really embarrassed. When I go home for the holidays, I want to see if I can find it. Okay. I think you should kick it off.

If I can find it, I'll read it to the audience. I already have anxiety just thinking about what was in there. I definitely have the notes in my phone. Some of them may have been when people would keep a list of their partners and it would be like first names and like a little funny blur oh yeah yeah you have to have your sex list somewhere in your notes app but if you have if for those who are listening if you have like uh in your notes app or unsent or text messages that you didn't like those sappy desperate like awful things in my note uh things that you've sent to people. We'd love to just read them.

And the goal is, it's like reflection. It's like normalize the first draft. Or just like, I think it's good to go back and read those after you're fully moved on from them. And I'd love the person who's fully moved on to come on and read them and like live through like how crazy it was to feel that way, knowing how they feel totally different now.

Do you want me to read what he sent me? Yeah. That was pretty lengthy. Yeah. Okay. So I, yeah, it's a big, I got a few of those. Please let me see you and say my piece. Absolutely crushing me. I can't stop thinking about you. I don't want to be without you. Please find it in your heart to give me another chance. Give us another chance. I promise you won't regret it. I know you won't. You will see my actions. Remember all the good we created. Remember you and I are capable of growing and learning together. This is a tough time. We'll come out stronger. I won't feel under a microscope. I won't build resentment because I want to be better for you, for us. I've never wanted someone more. I've never been drawn to someone more. This is all for a reason. I don't know the exact reason, but I'm still fighting. I'm not giving up. Please don't give up. Please. I know you're overwhelmed and your headspace isn't great, but if you can find it in your heart to start again with me, I know there's still hope.

I'm going to keep fighting. Please stop ignoring me. I want to perform that as a dramatic moment. You want to laugh? Allie's laughing. That was insane. And then Amanda has this like. Oh my God.

This man's pouring his heart out. He'll be fine. He'll move on. I don't think you should take him back. I'm trying as hard as I can. What am I supposed to do when I love you don't think you should take him back. But like. I'm trying as hard as I can. What am I supposed to do when I love you? Why are you ignoring me?

Please talk to me. Like it's incessant. You've never been him? Yeah, but I keep it inside. I keep it in the notes app. Really? Yeah. You've never sent?

Not something like that. I've sent like a few back-to-back texts, but not like, answer my calls. I have never. I think we are very generous with our memories when it comes to our embarrassing moments. I don't think I have the blind courage. But he sent a couple messages, please don't ignore me. a couple messages please not please don't ignore me you know this is not like this is not like noah from the notebook who sent 365 love letters every day you know and i'm sure if you but how do we feel about noah from the notebook yeah i have empathy for this guy i mean again i don't agree with him and i don't think she should take him back, but he's going through it right now. And he's feeling regret and he's feeling sadness. And

if I had a chance to talk to him, I would say, you should remember, you should save this message that you sent. Not because of her, but because of remember how you felt and remember the regret. And you should still, all the things that you said you would work on, start working on them right now by yourself alone. Which is literally what I told him. What did he say to that? He said he knows, but he still wanted me to be a priority to him. Okay. So he wanted to do both and I just didn't want to try to let him. That's a good answer for him. Right. Well,

congratulations. Uh, I'm proud of you. Not easy to do. Uh, enjoy the holidays. Of course. You know,

enjoy your family, enjoy your friends. Don't think about being single. Don't think about, you know, buy yourself a gift with the money you would have bought him a gift. Yeah. Approach 2023 with a lot of optimism

and excitement of course and um it'll be fun good news can't wait to get the book i'm serious i'm like i gotta get right to it well when you do if you if you like it share it on social and tag me i'll reshare it i told my friends already they wanted to start a book club so i need to reach out to the chicago area and see what they're all up to with your book Instagram and the highlights section alright cool alright well thanks for the update take care

thanks bye bye update from episode 509 that we did with Katie Maloney she was hosting her friend but didn't really want her friend's boyfriend to also come because the last time he was staying with her, he was really messy.

There was beer cans everywhere. They were not good guests. And she wasn't sure how to approach that with her friend of, I don't necessarily want to host your boyfriend. I need help telling my best friend that I'm not comfortable with her boyfriend staying at my house.

Oh, okay. Why would your friend's boyfriend need to stay at your house? So New Year's Eve is coming up and her birthday is the day before New Year's Eve. And she invited them both to come and stay with me. She invited them both to come and stay with you. So she didn't ask. How long have you been friends with this friend? Since college. so like five, four years. I'm guessing that she's the type of friend or you're close enough where she just assumes she can stay with you when she visits kind of thing. Yeah, she asked if she could come and I was like, of course, you're always welcome. And then like two weeks later, she was like, oh, but I want him to come too. Gotcha. What'd you say?

So I took the coward way out and ignored it and then sent a TikTok, not relevant, a couple hours later. Gotcha. Well done. Why don't you want him there? So he stayed here before and it was really bad, at least in my perspective. So I can give you the rundown of that. Yeah, great. They came and stayed with me. We went out. I DD'd. He was like passed out in my backseat. Fine. He was drunk. He asked what my address was. I gave it to him. It was two o'clock in the morning. He's just trying to get us home. Woke up the next day to like crumbs all over my couch, my coffee table, my rug. So he had ordered like DoorDash or something at 3am. He didn't ask if it was okay. Didn't ask if

we wanted anything. That was the first thing. And then the second thing when they got up, I was like, oh, I'm gonna go change for brunch. I was like a foot off the couch and he ran and cannonballed out of my brand new sofa. I was like, okay. Third thing they left and I found beer cans all over my best guest bedroom on my brand new wood desk they left ring marks so it was just like crazy and I just don't want him here again do you think it was more him than her yeah that was all him um but obviously she was around for those things I think I mean it's her boyfriend so maybe she's just used to that behavior and I'm not did you she didn't say anything.

Last time they left, after they left, did you say anything to your roommate whatsoever? No, because I didn't anticipate a situation where they'd be coming again. You could try to just say, hey, this happened. Can you ask him to be more considerate while he's a guest here if she pushes back on that i don't yeah then then it is a little then you then you have your answer of like what you know you need to do yeah to say maybe it's best that you don't stay here then if you insist on him coming that then i just i need my space this is my space i need it to be respected and yeah and if she can't understand i respect that then i think you just kind of bring

it up i would be i wouldn't be committed to anything at the end i would just bring it up that way open-ended and see where it goes because i agree with katie i mean depending how she handles you might say like listen i can't wait to see you but maybe it is best that you guys don't stay here because i don't want him to feel uncomfortable and i don't want to be uncomfortable and i don't want this to ruin your birthday right okay yeah i'll do that i'll leave it kind of and see what happens i guess yeah i feel like that's disarming enough that it's not it's not an attack you're you know still supportive you're still excited but you know you just gotta you gotta be honest yeah maybe we'll see how it goes i'll let you know yeah just try not to be mindful of your words and that

you're not attacking him or you know making her feel like he sucks or you hate him the update says so i texted my friend right after the podcast and asked if she was available while i still had the guts and she said yes so i facetimed her she wasn't defensive at all and totally understood she says she's just used to his behavior and him being a slob but that she would talk to him she was more excited that i got to talk to you because we are huge fans of yours. She said, next time, literally just text me and I'll handle it. She also understood that I was afraid to approach her about it

because we had a falling out in the past. Moral of the story, if you have to tell your friend something, buffer it with the fact that you got to talk to Nick Vial. Thanks for all your help and I'll let you know if the visit goes well. Okay, great. So clearly the friend knows of the boyfriend's habits she's just used to them

yeah so just communicate yeah yeah love it talk it out no need for a big blow up it's not like it went well yeah excited to hear how the visit goes yeah lovely he's staying he's gonna stay there yes he's coming i've been for new year's eve so we'll know in a few weeks. And he'll just not be a slob. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, New Year's, you know, there's not any drinking involved. It's a famously well-behaved holiday. No emotions running high. You're not reflecting on your past accomplishments and future goals.

He'll be fine. He'll be great. I'm sure of it. I think he'll be great. I actually think he'll be fine. Yeah. Love it. Okay.

Thanks for listening, guys. Hope you enjoyed this special update show. Have a very safe and wonderful end of 2022. Happy New Year to all. Send in those stories and questions at AskNickAtCastMe.com. Cast with a K. And we will see you next year.