The Viall Files - E521 Ask Nick - Flirting with a Questionable Character

Starting point is 00:00:00 You can listen to The Vile Files ad-free on Amazon Music. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Vile Files Ask Nick Edition. Happy New Year to you all. It's still 2022 while we're recording this. Amanda still has COVID. Yeah. Well, the thing is we record so much in one day,

Starting point is 00:00:31 so it's going to seem like Amanda had COVID for weeks, but I promise you we're just very efficient. We record some of our intros early. Spoiler alert. What? It's a new year. I hope it's a new you. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:00:43 I hope that you have enjoyed your holiday season and you're ready to get back to the daily grind which is to listen to us yes at least three days a week amen we have an exciting year for you lined up it's a it's a good month of uh interviews next week we have justin baldoni oh actor, also author of Man Enough. He wrote a new book. He talks a lot about male, well, he talks a lot about masculinity. And I think that will be a fun, interesting conversation with Justin. We have the Kolpo sisters, Olivia and Aurora, join us also this month.

Starting point is 00:01:18 We have Taylor Lautner and his wife, Taylor Lautner, with us at the end of the month. And a lot more people. We got the, you know, Zach season starting. Oh, yeah. New Bachelor, Zach Shallcross, January 23rd. It'll be fun.

Starting point is 00:01:33 Good, fun times ahead. We're going to be in a new studio coming up. It's going to be very exciting. Big changes. Big changes ahead. It's going to be, wow, you guys are in for a treat. We're going to be working hard.

Starting point is 00:01:46 I was thinking, since we are wrapping up 2022, that I was going to dive into some dating trends since this is a dating and relationship show. And I wanted to talk about the kind of fine line between knowing what you want and being intentional or chance being too picky or too closed off. Because I do feel like there's a balance you don't want to waste your time but you also need to be slightly open but studies are showing that in 2022 people are prioritizing critical thinking over spontaneity in dating specifically on dating apps so now fewer daters are just swiping right quote-unquote just because so they're not just saying oh oh, let's just see. And a dating coach commented, now we're coming to a point in history where self-awareness is at the forefront of conversations, including dating. People are realizing that they need to

Starting point is 00:02:34 take their dating lives into their own hands. And that includes dating with more intention. So not even just like, oh, maybe like let's swipe. People are really being particular, even with who they match with, let alone who they go on dates with. I haven't been on a lot of dating apps recently. How much information do the dating apps give you about someone? They're getting better. I would say specifically Hinge is starting to create a lot more prompts. I think an important one that they added, I think in the last year, is specifically, what are you looking for? You can say, looking for a long-term open to short or just looking for casual or just whatever i think that's an

Starting point is 00:03:08 important question you can put political beliefs religious beliefs and then of course you always have like little question prompts with in between your photos now there's a voice memo one so you can hear people's voices yeah so there's definitely a decent amount of information i mean obviously you're never going to know unless you talk to someone live and you actually meet them. But I just think, I mean, it makes sense, especially I talked about this the other day. I've been on dating apps for years. We're now reaching an era of people like we've all been trying for a while specifically on apps. So it makes sense that you wouldn't just want to swipe just because you're not just going to waste more time. You know, these trends are things that they talk about. I understand what they're saying. Do I

Starting point is 00:03:47 think people should be more intentional with their dating? Of course. The people are being even more particular with their swiping. I'm not so sure that is the fix. It's like, basically, we're talking about having more filters, right? The more intentional you are, the more filters you have, and more of the kind of the non-negotiables you put up and you're not just there to waste your time. And maybe you're challenging yourself to not focus on just looks as much. That all being said, I just don't know how much you can really learn from someone via text and on a dating app. And I know I mentioned in my book, by the way, Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday. Check it out. Start your new year right.

Starting point is 00:04:28 It's a great book to start your new year. Anyway, I talk in there about the benefits of Zoom dates or FaceTime dates, in particular with people you meet on a dating app. I'm still, I know when I say this, I get a lot of looks where people are like, really, Zoom dates? And I get, that's crazy. But why?

Starting point is 00:04:43 Why? I don't understand. I think being maybe still more open-ended with people you match with and then progressing that faster to like a screening process. So to be more intentional, I think you just have to have better filters, better screening processes, because dating can be exhausting and going on dates and spending money and getting ready and meeting strangers in person is exhausting yeah and i just so your point is to put more screeners in place between somewhere between yeah not when you're like swiping and making quick judgments then but like make it quicker to a zoom or a quick coffee date where you can actually have data points yeah

Starting point is 00:05:22 okay and you actually you know and even a date, you have to meet someone in person. Yeah. How funny would it be if I set up like multiple Zoom dates in a row and gave them each like the 40 minute limit that Zoom has and just like move to the next one? Yes. It doesn't have to be the 40 minute limit. You create an email address just for your Zoom, just for dating. Send out a Google Calendar invite.

Starting point is 00:05:44 It's, you know know so it's not your actual email address that they would have ali does dating at gmail.com if people utilize that feature like of setting up zoom dates i just think i don't see how it could be a bad thing i don't see how it could hurt yeah you know you take you can take breaks from that too but normalize zoom dating i i think i'm onto something. I'm going to keep pushing it until it takes off. If you're dating on dating apps and you find it to be exhausting, I don't know if being that much more picky with who you match with. I mean, be picky. I'm not saying you should swipe everyone. Being more judgmental on a few pictures or some prompts

Starting point is 00:06:23 that people have a limited time to answer. It's just so hard to like sound funny or cool with these voice messages. I will say I did just look because I was thinking to myself, if we could just even eliminate having to do the email, having to do a Zoom meeting. And there is a feature on Hinge in the chat for video. So you could like video chat someone in the app. You would not even have to move them. Why do people, are people using that?

Starting point is 00:06:48 I don't know. I've never used it. If there are people out there who are using Hinge, A, I want to know, do you even know that feature exists? And B, are you using it? And C, if not, which I assume most of you are not, why? Why not? Yeah, because that just eliminates any need for an email,

Starting point is 00:07:04 exchanging phone numbers, getting a Zoom meeting up and running. It's right there. It's secure. Do you feel the need to like if you were to plan a Zoom date, like how much work would you do your makeup? Yes. You would get ready.

Starting point is 00:07:16 Okay. Yeah. Because I feel like that would be a response from I guess women be like, well, I still don't want to like fucking get ready for all these fucking Zoom dates. Yeah. I definitely do. It could, you do like zoom date makeup,

Starting point is 00:07:27 which is like, it does the job, but it's not the full routine. Maybe. And could you put like a beanie or a hat on? I'm just envisioning like someone on a dating app, pulling up a video chat of me and that I just like bald and a beanie, like no hair.

Starting point is 00:07:40 You don't think you look good with like a winter cap on? I love girls. With all my hair up in it no i know i like nally nally nally was shopping for like winter hats i think she looks great natalie and amanda have like naturally straight fine hair mine is like the texture of a lion that hasn't met a conditioner i don't know if that has to, I don't think that makes you look bad in a hat. I too have hair. Will you buy me a beanie? I too have hair that looks like.

Starting point is 00:08:09 Should we get matching beanies? That looks like it was electrocuted. Date me on the beanie. All I'm saying is like, can't you have like a. Oh, an in between. A simpler. To be fair,

Starting point is 00:08:19 I haven't touched my hair since Friday. And I just think everyone looks, no one looks their best on Zoom. That's true. Or video chat. That's Friday. And I just think everyone looks, no one looks their best on Zoom. That's true. Or video chat. That's true. And I just don't know if you should spend a lot of energy getting all cute for Zoom date.

Starting point is 00:08:33 This is me. I really don't think your makeup routine, and when I say you, I don't mean you. Because he stares directly in my eyes. You know, I think whoever's listening, you look nice. Aw. I think whoever's listening you look nice oh and just i agree with that you look nice just you know just don't look like you woke out of bed but like cut your routine in half is what you're saying cut it in half and i think if there's a connection he

Starting point is 00:08:57 will like you or and vice versa and if not you guys will just agree to disagree but if he's not into you it's probably not because of your brows. I think these video features, people have to start utilizing more. Or Zoom FaceTime dates or whatever it is. I'll make you that resolution. I will use that feature in the new year. Yeah. And let me know if guys are receptive to it.

Starting point is 00:09:17 Okay. And see what they say. Great. Really fast. If you match, quick dialogue, would you ask them to Zoom? I always do. Okay if you match quick dialogue would you ask them to Zoom? I always do. Okay you do.

Starting point is 00:09:28 So like hey I'm going to call you on this feature. Yeah. It's a date. Great. Yeah. Alright we'll see.

Starting point is 00:09:34 I think that's what people should do more of. I don't think being super picky on bios is going to help people fall in love more. But you can be picky

Starting point is 00:09:42 on the video chat. You can be pickier for sure. You have to see if there's a banter there. Yeah. It's very easy love more. But you can be picky on the video chat. You can be pickier, for sure. You gotta see if there's a banter there. Yeah. It's very easy to tell. If you've matched, well, like, you're not gonna match

Starting point is 00:09:51 with anyone you find unappealing looking. It's a dating app. Yeah. The question is, like, what more information can you find out? Do you get the ick? Do you get a charming vibe? It's so easy to, like, fuck up via text.

Starting point is 00:10:05 Yeah. Anyway, we have a great show for you. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatcastme.com, cast with a K. Don't forget we released a new update episode that dropped last week, Wednesday. If you haven't checked that out yet, be sure to do. It's a good one, a definite doozy.

Starting point is 00:10:22 So if you missed it over the holidays, go back and check that out. Also, if you finally got into the Harry and Meghan documentary, we cover it in the last few Going Deepers. Be sure to check that out. We have a great week lined up for you. Big surprises ahead. Let's get to our callers. What's the first thing that you do when you wake up? Is it checking up on your credit score? I doubt it. Actually, I did that on Saturday morning and my credit score had gone down. And you know what's a great way to build your credit score back up? Chime. Chime. Yeah. Well, also, I mean, Allie is a unique bird. And if you're someone who doesn't

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Starting point is 00:14:46 your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean?

Starting point is 00:14:58 Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No.

Starting point is 00:15:09 Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo,

Starting point is 00:15:21 people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. How's it going? Hey, good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Jack. I am 33 years old. How's it going? Hey, good. How are you? Good. What's your name?

Starting point is 00:15:46 My name is Jack. I am 33 years old. How can we help, Jack? Well, I've recently reconnected with an ex-girlfriend, and we've met up, and we talk a lot on Instagram, and I found out she actually has a boyfriend of five years, and they live together. She actually has a boyfriend of five years and they live together. But we still message flirtatiously and stuff. And so I guess I'm trying to navigate that, kind of get out of that pickle. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Okay. Well, I mean, obviously the easy answer is you could just stop talking to her. Yeah. But you seem reluctant to do that. Well, how did the relationship end in the past how long ago was this ex was she your girlfriend yeah so I was in my early 20s and I live in Texas now and we both lived in California and I mean we dated for a while I mean like six months or so and uh the friend that set us up he actually confessed to me that he was in love with her and wanted me to break up with her and so i kind of was trying to do the mature thing and like prioritize my friend who had been best friends with for years and i was like hey i mean

Starting point is 00:16:55 my friendship's more important to me wow so you a you had a girlfriend and your buddy said bro i'm gonna keep it real i'm in love with your girlfriend yeah and you said all right bro yeah i'm gonna dump her so you can date her sort of i guess well she said she would never date him so she was like before we break up just like a heads up that's never gonna happen so everybody was aware that they would not date if we broke up, but he just could not hang out with me dating this girl that I guess he thought was the love of his life.

Starting point is 00:17:32 This is blowing my mind. Are you still friends with him today? No. I was not surprised. Because that's an intense expectation that your friend had of you. Well, and he's the one that set us up. So I was confused as to kind of why'd you set us up then.

Starting point is 00:17:50 How long were you dating for? Probably like six months. That's crazy. Anyway, and when you broke up with her, you're like, hey, listen, he loves you. So I got to be a friend. Yeah. She must have been really pissed about that. I mean, she acted pretty kind of chill about it was

Starting point is 00:18:06 like disappointed but was like yeah i mean how old were you guys uh 21 21 22 and was it a more casual like relationship like or i mean you know like 21 year old relationships like if you know i was saying crazy me and my girlfriend at 21 were making crazy promises to each other, you know? Right, right. Yeah. Nowadays, things are a little more casual, you know? Yeah. I mean, we were seeing each other pretty much every day. I don't know. Felt pretty serious, I guess. Okay. And how did she pop back into your life?

Starting point is 00:18:40 So I got divorced a couple of years ago now. And kind of after I got divorced, we reconnected over Instagram. She followed me, but I didn't follow her. And I saw she was like watching my stories or something. So I reached out and was just like, hey. How long ago was this? Maybe a year ago. Okay. And so you have been talking to her for almost a year before you found out she had a boyfriend of five years? Yeah. So we actually met up. So we talked a lot back and forth and reconnected, kind of caught up and it was flirty, kind of banter, but we live in different states. So I was like, hey, if you're ever around, I'd love to take you out for a drink. Just thinking like, well, that's probably never going to happen, but this is fun. And she was like, well, I'm actually going to be out there in a few weeks. So we met up and hung out and it was great, but it got really awkward at the end.

Starting point is 00:19:33 And she like high-fived me when she left. I was like, all right, well, that was fucking weird. So I gave it a few days and I texted her. I was like, hey, I had a lot of fun, but then it got really awkward at the end. And you like fucking high-fived me. And she was like, oh, what are you talking about hey I had a lot of fun but then it got really awkward at the end and you like fucking high-fived me and she was like oh what are you talking about I had a lot of fun too just like kind of dismissed the awkwardness and it never came up that she had a boyfriend no not when we were hanging out it was a couple of weeks after how how did it not come up they've been together for five years and they live together was she like

Starting point is 00:20:06 my roommate like i don't know oh my gosh this child and when you are you've been talking like are you are you guys talking on the phone or is it just like casual texas text messaging here or there like how how much your action has been going on over the past year texting and instagram dming is it conversations or you're just like responding and commenting to each other's posts here or there yeah conversations like in-depth conversations like we joked about like getting married and she said she wants to start a family and have kids and i was like well hey you're with the guy for like five years i'm sure that's coming down the pike pretty soon she's she's like, no, I would never marry that guy. I don't want to marry him.

Starting point is 00:20:47 So let me, I guess I'm slightly confused by the timeline. Yeah. Were you having big conversations and her being flirtatious before you knew she had a boyfriend? How did you find out she had a boyfriend? Yes, both. Both.

Starting point is 00:21:01 She eventually told me. She told you. Was it after you and i called her out for the high five yeah because we were talking about kind of dating scene she asked me if i was dating anybody and i was like oh just casually here and there nothing serious and i asked her how the dating scene was in la now and she's like it's so crazy and whatever and just kind of um not really answering the question And we kept having this conversation, just, you know, and then it developed into, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:29 asking where she lives and all that stuff. And she's like, well, I want to move, but my boyfriend doesn't want to move. And I was like, what's up? My boyfriend. Your boyfriend. And she's like, uh, yeah, I've got a boyfriend of like five years.

Starting point is 00:21:41 She doesn't post all that much. She doesn't post a lot. You don't have to go that deep to see a boyfriend, but To be fair, it's also four years, four and a half years ago. Yeah, it was from a long time ago. She posts a lot on her story and never posts anything about him on her story.

Starting point is 00:21:56 She's cute. She looks fun. Yeah, she is fun. She was a stand-up comedian for a little while, so she's funny. I like funny. So after you found out that she had a stand-up comedian for a little while so she's funny i like funny so after you found out that she had a boyfriend how did you handle it but just basically told her like hey well if that ever wraps up you know shoot me a message and when was that um a few weeks after we had met up how long ago how long ago was that that was like june or july okay and then what's

Starting point is 00:22:23 the dialogue been going on since then? A couple of weeks later, she reached out, was being flirty, kind of a thing. And so I, you know, engaged in the conversation for a little bit.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And then I was like, so what's up with the boyfriend? She's like, oh yeah, I still have a boyfriend. And I was like, all right, well,

Starting point is 00:22:39 I'm just not that comfortable in engaging, you know. Yeah. I hear you. I got divorced because my wife was cheating on me, so I don't want to be. Yeah. Well, you are flirting with someone who is demonstrating questionable character choices. There is that.

Starting point is 00:22:58 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm dating her. How do I know she's not doing the same thing to me i couldn't i mean who knows what conversation she's had i can't imagine the boyfriend would be thrilled that she's telling you that he's never gonna she's never gonna marry him and who knows maybe they you said they live in la they maybe they have some sort of non-traditional partnership maybe but probably not.

Starting point is 00:23:27 Yeah, I've asked her for some clarity on the situation. Not that I'm not in their relationship, so I don't know how much she owes me as far as clarity, but she sent me messages and then unsends them before I could read them. So I'm like, oh. She does. Some suspicious behavior. 75% of her messages she has unsent

Starting point is 00:23:45 I don't like that she's a little shady are you sure you would even want to be with someone who's that shady I mean if she's doing this when she's with him listen you're very it's a very exciting thing

Starting point is 00:24:02 there's a lot of things that I get why it's bringing you why it's bringing you, why it's keeping you interested. It's a girl from your past who you have this really bizarre breakup story that kind of left you wanting more potentially, right? Yeah. Just by her Instagram, she seems like it wouldn't shock me if she's very charismatic and fun.

Starting point is 00:24:24 Yeah. And maybe a little selfish. But who knows? I don't know her at all. I'm actually basing the selfishness off of the fact that she's messaging you while having a boyfriend. Yeah. Which means that she is,

Starting point is 00:24:36 you're meeting some needs that her boyfriend's not. Right. And, you know, she's getting into the emotional cheating territory. She's probably already in the emotional cheating territory. But like, you know, she, you know, she's getting into the emotional cheating territory. She's probably already in the emotional cheating territory. But like, you know, she, you know, her high five is like her being like, I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm just meeting a friend. We always say, though, with emotional cheating, you know, it's like your conscience telling you.

Starting point is 00:24:56 If she's unsending the messages, she knows she's in that territory. Does she know anything about your past? Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about it a lot. How you've been cheated on. Yeah. What does she have anything about your past? Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about it a lot. How you've been cheated on. Yeah. What does she have to say about that?

Starting point is 00:25:07 I just thought it was super fucked up. And yeah. Talked about how loyalty is like number one to her and whatever. And I'm like, I don't know. Kind of feels like maybe not. Well, here's the thing. You got a couple options. I see it.

Starting point is 00:25:23 My first thought is like, listen, you're not kind of like your old, old best friend. You know, you love who you love and well, I don't think you should be a home wrecker. I don't think as far as you are concerned from like morally or like a character choice, I wouldn't have a problem with you shooting your shot with her. Yeah. And what I mean by that is like, you're just, you've built this rapport. And I think you shooting your shot would have to recognize her situation, which is like, you have to call it out and just be like, hey, we've been talking like, I don't, this has been kind of confusing for me.

Starting point is 00:26:00 I didn't even know you have a boyfriend. Based on the fact that you told me you'd never want to marry him. I'm just like, I don't actually, I don't know what you say. boyfriend based on the fact that you told me you'd never want to marry him I'm just like I don't actually I don't know what you say I need I would need some time but it's kind of like this sounds crazy and I'm not saying anything I'm not no I don't know what I'm saying but it's you shooting yourself saying if you were single I would really be interested and it sounds like you kind of alluded to that because like well hey let me know but i think it's more like i've really grown to like like you yeah but i don't want to like i have been cheated on i don't think either of us i hope that neither of us want to like do something that we regret and makes us feel bad about our like choices and how like i don't even know this guy but i don't want to be a part of

Starting point is 00:26:42 that but right i don't think i also don't't think we should keep talking as long as you're in this situation, not because of anything you're doing, but because I know that I don't think of you as just my pal. I'm like, just be honest with her. I know I want you to break up with him. And that alone makes me feel very bad about us having any type of relationship relationship knowing you're in a relationship with him. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense.

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Starting point is 00:30:55 That's how you shoot your shot. You know? Okay. Yeah. If next time, shoot, you know, wait, wait for her to reach out. And then you could say, hey, listen listen do you talk on the phone ever? Yeah, sometimes. And maybe you could be like, hey do you have a second?

Starting point is 00:31:10 I think you should do this over the phone. And just say I was thinking about stuff and like you don't know this already but like I like you and I really enjoy talking to you and it's been kind of confusing for me because it was confusing to find out you had a boyfriend and I'm trying to distance myself, but I've grown to like you, but I do know that like,

Starting point is 00:31:30 I find myself hoping you break up with him. And I actually feel bad about that because I don't want to be in the middle of this. You know, I don't know him, but I've been him before. And you can, that's all, maybe that's all you have to say and so i i'm just very careful about making sure i'm not a part of something that that happened to me yeah you know i want because i don't want you to accuse her right yeah you know but you could just say like i'm just it's more about you i'm just hyper aware about the possibility of i don't want to wrong anyone and yeah again it's how i because of how I feel about wanting you to break up with him, I don't think we should talk anymore.

Starting point is 00:32:10 Maybe she needs to hear that from you to like leave this relationship. Right. Either way, I think you have, have you asked her some tough questions? Have you ever broached the subject about like the inappropriateness of your relationship? Yeah. And those are some of the messages that get unsent before I can read them. How do you know that?

Starting point is 00:32:30 Because I'll get a notification that she sent a message back after I ask and then I go to open it. Oh, what have been your questions? Just like where, why is she still talking to me? What if she has a boyfriend? Like, what are we doing here? Okay, you have done that.

Starting point is 00:32:47 Yeah. She sends a message, then unsends it, and then waits a period of time, creates some distance between you two, and then reaches back out. Yeah. Well, and I don't know if she's mad about, because she's mentioned to me before

Starting point is 00:33:00 about like how, you know, our breakup situation before. And she's like, well, I didn't think you liked me that much when we first dated because you broke up with me and it's like well yeah this is you know well first of all like she can't use that as an excuse she needs to decide what she wants to do with this guy or not right yeah yeah because like you don't want her leaving him for you per se exactly yeah that's a lot of pressure on me you know if she did yeah you can say like if you told me you were happy in this relationship then i would just like leave it alone

Starting point is 00:33:31 and just accept it and just move on and just say hey missed connection but i can't help but feel this because of the things you told me but at the same time i find myself wanting you to break up with them and i don't know that's all i can say you can only work with what you have yeah that's for her to decide but like she again and maybe these messages she's unsending have yeah or have something like that in there but like yeah it's kind of neither here nor there drives me insane that's something you guys would talk about after she left this relationship and and had a clean slate because you don't know if she's a fit and you don't know if you should be talking and there's a good chance that you're just a you're just a fun blast from the past she's just enjoying having this little

Starting point is 00:34:15 weird dynamic with you this weird banter kind of yeah yeah that's what i think you should do like uh next time she reaches out be like hey can we talk on the phone if she says yes great then have the conversation over the phone if she says you know if you ask her something on the phone she might be since you already tried to bring this up she might try to avoid it yeah and then if she says oh i can't right now just be like all right well i've just been thinking you know because spoiler alert i think about you a lot say that i mean what do you have to say but yeah i find myself hoping you break up with him and knowing that i just i don't think we should have you know we should keep talking like this if that ever if your situation changes

Starting point is 00:34:57 please i i hope i'm your first call yeah but i i just i don't want to keep doing this for everyone's sake and if she ends up breaking up with them then you know i i you have the right to dig more just just it's it's some conversation i'm like listen like relationships are complicated and hard and like we're only human but like it definitely made me uncomfortable knowing that you were talking to me and had a boyfriend and yeah you know as someone who's been cheated on i just i want to understand what you were thinking because listen if we ever dated you know some i'm assuming i don't know how you feel about it but i'm someone who's like just fucking tell me whatever it is i mean i'd rather just

Starting point is 00:35:36 give me a chance to not care or care or whatever i promise you i won't lose my fucking shit if yeah if you're upfront and honest about it, then we can just have a conversation. I'll be sad. I'll be disappointed. But this was a safe space. Yeah. Just talk to me.

Starting point is 00:35:54 But I don't ever want to find out that if I'm not meeting your needs, that you're getting your needs met elsewhere. Because that is what she's doing. You are meeting a certain need that he is not. And because he doesn't know that you exist, and if he does, I'd be curious, if he knows that you exist, it's not the full truth.

Starting point is 00:36:15 That much I know. And I don't know what's worse. I would rather just have her completely omit you from existence rather than like pretend that you're some pal or my ex-boyfriend who is just a friend and you are just friends and nothing's ever happened but it's getting into a gray area for you she's justifying it that's how these kind of emotional cheating situations it's always kind of with the best intentions yeah but she's saying things she shouldn't say to you

Starting point is 00:36:43 absolutely so even if they break, you need to proceed with caution because you don't want to be him in a few years. She's got some red flags for sure. Yeah. Yeah, she does have a couple red flags, I guess. Yeah. And maybe you just say that. I bet you have some red flags too.

Starting point is 00:37:01 If you have a conversation about an honest conversation if you are trying to peel back concerns about someone it's always best to lead with like hey these are things i'm working on or do you have things about me so that it's not it doesn't feel like an attack like can we talk about this because like it this say this like it just made me feel insecure and i just don't want to feel that way and see how she responds to you being vulnerable with an insecurity yeah does she make you feel worse for it and make it seem like it's a you problem or does she try to to work through it with you yeah okay lots lots of red flags yeah okay i don't think she's gonna break up up with him. Yeah, I mean, we've been doing this for like a year, I guess. I had a situation kind of like this.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Yeah. A lot of different. This is very unique, but it was someone who like we are, it was a misconnection. You know, we never were just single at the same time. There are other variables at play. Yeah. And I finally had to tell him to stop talking calling me because it was like yeah this is how i feel and like you know let me know if

Starting point is 00:38:11 things change but like please stop reaching out to me because it just felt it felt very selfish and it felt like this person would reach out to me like you know they would always make it seem like they were checking in on me but like it wasn't that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've told her, like, hey, I get excited when you reach out to me and we have conversations and stuff. Like, I feel excited about you, and I don't want to feel that way if you've got a boyfriend. So, and she was like, okay, yeah, that's fair. And then we didn't talk for like a week, and then she's texting me and messaging me and stuff again. And I'm like, I mean.

Starting point is 00:38:47 Yeah, I think you just need to hold a harder line and just say, hey, listen, like. I tend to be a little not as hard with my boundaries, I guess, as I should be. I define them, but I don't hold them. Well, that's and I think maybe there's a pattern here, right? And if you can name that you're not good at enforcing your boundaries, I think people sense that. Yeah. And while it's not your fault your ex-wife cheated on you, and it's certainly not your fault she's doing it this way, but you're creating a space that is inviting to people who make these types of choices. And you're too late in the game to enforce these boundaries.

Starting point is 00:39:21 So you're allowing her to make these justifications and hang out with you because she's not fucking you and things like that. You're not hooking up, but like, she's, she is justifying her conversation with you and she's not calling it emotional cheating. And, and meanwhile, you're not really enforcing any boundaries. So you're creating this very safe environment for this, this type of activity. So when you really shut it down and be like, Hey, listen, with all due respect, you can't do this. Like I had to, in my situation, be like, you got to stop calling me. It's selfish, you know?

Starting point is 00:39:52 Yeah. And I think you're great and you're amazing. And if things change, let me know. But like, this isn't fair to me and it's not fair to other people involved. So like, you're better than this. And just tell her like, I think you're a great person. I think you're better than this.

Starting point is 00:40:07 Like, you know, give her some tough love. Okay. And see how she responds to that. Okay. But you practicing and enforcing your boundaries, if it doesn't work out with this person, I think is maybe something you need to really work on in general. Yes, definitely. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:21 Be the, you know, and, and I think you will attract a, maybe a different quality of person. Yeah. Don't be, you're seeing like you're a good looking guy. You seem great. You know, like you probably have a lot going for you. Like, don't be afraid to enforce those. Like it's, we don't enforce our boundaries because we're afraid that people will won't like us if we do that.

Starting point is 00:40:44 But yeah. Enforce your boundaries. See who likes you then. Those are the people who are safe to have around. And you attracting people because you're not enforcing your boundaries attracts the wrong people. Enforce the boundaries. See if she responds to that and then go from there. Okay. All right. Take care, man. Keep us posted for sure. Yeah, will do. All right, buddy. Take care. All right. Thanks. You too. Bye. How's it going? Good. How's it going?

Starting point is 00:41:11 Good. What's your name? My name is Evie, age 32. How can we help, Evie? Yes. So I am recently engaged and the main part of my planning for the wedding is if I'm going to have my mom walk me down the aisle instead of my dad, who has not really, though he's present in my life, my mom plays a bigger role to me than he does, I guess, in that sense. But the biggest problem with it is that he is kind of petty and immature. And I just know that if I have my mom walk me down the aisle instead of him, there's a big chance he may not show up for the wedding, which would possibly mean I would end up ending my relationship with him. Gotcha. Yeah, that's tough. So obviously you're closer with your mom than your dad. Why are you thinking about doing this specifically? Because I ask that only because, well, I get the gesture, obviously, because you're closer with your mom and you have a better relationship with her. So you have for her, so to speak. Where obviously a father walking his daughter down the aisle for those traditional people can be a very meaningful thing.

Starting point is 00:42:33 And even if he hasn't been the best father, I guess you just have to decide what your priorities are. It comes down to this. Because my first answer is, it's your wedding, do what you want. Then my second thing I would say is, well, what are your priorities for all the relationships you have in your life? You just said, you think, you know, being a little petty, this could affect, he might not show up and for all intents and purposes might like severely damage the relationship. And then you have to ask yourself, do you care? Yes.

Starting point is 00:43:03 Mainly because he's getting up in age and he does not take care of himself. You just never know, like something could happen. And then I would hate to know that that happened on bad terms. What's your relation with your, I mean, what, how often you communicate with your dad now? I mean, honestly, it's maybe once a month and it's almost obligatory. Like he listens as long as he cares to, I guess. You don't feel like he's all that interested in what you're doing,

Starting point is 00:43:29 right? Yeah. He's actually more interested in what my fiance is doing. Okay. Something is part of this. I know in your email that you wrote that like he was pretty abusive during your childhood. He was abused.

Starting point is 00:43:42 He was verbally abusive towards my mom and And because I'm so close to her and because she has been just such a great example to me, I think anytime anybody even says something rude to her in a parking lot, I get extra angry and want to protect her. So yeah, I do think that a big part of it is how he was when I was younger, how he hasn't really earned. Have you talked to him about this stuff? I try to, but it's so difficult. He does not see these problems. He does not self-reflect.

Starting point is 00:44:15 He refuses to do that. He thinks he's always right about everything. And anytime anything too emotional comes up, he kind of stops it. Gotcha. Have you ever said to him flat out like, well, if you do, I mean, like, I'd love a closer relationship with you? Because like, I mean, when you say, I guess, like right or wrong, I think it just comes down to trying to have a better relationship with someone.

Starting point is 00:44:40 And I guess I wonder if you put yourself out there like when you say right or wrong like what do you mean like he's never wrong about what like what are these what are these topics he's never wrong about he just doesn't see it if i'm like like a long time ago i went through therapy and was telling him that a lot of the stuff i talked about in therapy was him because i've had a lot of dad issues from him and he just refuses to understand that he's like well I'm sorry that you feel that way I don't really know what to tell you is what he'll say like he won't take ownership I guess no I get that yeah but I guess what what if do you need him to take ownership I guess is my question I mean no it's nice i mean yeah i think on like like a

Starting point is 00:45:27 deeper level i think it would be nice to have him take ownership because then it almost feels like he's seeing me finally and i guess i would get validation so on like a prideful level then yeah yeah it's a tough situation i know a lot of people in very similar situations as you and you're you're probably never going to get exactly what you want out of this you know like you said your dad is kind of who he is he's up there in age a stubborn old goat so to speak you know and if you think is is you said his health isn't great not really like he doesn't really tell me a lot because he knows that i'll get worried um but i mean i know that he's got just you know your typical high blood pressure and all of that stuff no diseases thankfully but

Starting point is 00:46:21 when you're when you talk to your dad it sounds like obviously you wish he would show a more interest in what you know you're doing do you ask him a lot about what he's doing and show an interest in him yeah whenever they call um my stepmom and him call he'll ask well he will sometimes ask what's up what's been going on. But then, yeah, I'll ask anything new. What are you doing? How's work? I just, I think the best you can do in these situations is this kind of take what you can get because it just comes down. It's real simple. Do you want a relationship with your dad or not? Right. And yeah. And you're not the only, I mean, I know, I mean, I know a lot of people very close to me who have to deal with stuff like this and it's tough.

Starting point is 00:47:06 And I see it in families, you know, I don't know how, do you have siblings? You, you, yeah, you. I'm the youngest. You're the youngest. And what's your other siblings relationship with your dad? My sister normally gets along with him really well. And then my brother is the favorite. We all know he's the only guy. was an eagle scout he was in the marines

Starting point is 00:47:27 like went to iraq like doesn't do anything wrong never gave him trouble so he my dad i can see try to be more engaged in him and do more with him and so do you feel like your relationship with your father's a little bit worse than theirs yes 100 why do you feel that way we've talked about it in the siblings like my sister and i've spoken before that she feels more comfortable going to our dad about her personal problems and i feel a lot more comfortable anything anything remotely and convenient happens to me i call my mom so she doesn't feel as close with your mom correct Correct. Yeah. My feelings for my dad are her feelings for my mom. Only my mom is very involved with her. She tries so hard. Maybe that can help you, right? I come from a large family, if you don't know that. And I have other friends

Starting point is 00:48:17 and people close to me who have other siblings. And the dynamics are always kind of funky and different. And I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I just find it interesting that your sister is the opposite of you, right? And what you experienced in your childhood obviously is different than what she experienced in her childhood. And obviously that's playing a role in your feelings towards your parents now. And now as an adult, you're learning how your parents are stubborn people and sensitive people and defensive people, just like we all can be at times. So I don't know. I just think, especially with your dad, I don't know if it's really worth it. How meaningful is it to you to have your mom

Starting point is 00:48:58 walk you down the aisle? Or is it more of a, yeah, is it more of a fuck you to your dad? I don't know. No, it's definitely not a screw you to him because just the idea of telling him that I would have her do it over him gives me just the most anxiety. It's really more of like, she's been my rock my whole life. She's been the supportive one. She's the one who's always there for me and always showed me love. So I just feel like she earned that more than him. Couldn't you express that in a way, like at a speech or something at the

Starting point is 00:49:32 wedding? I mean, you know, you'll sit up, you'll stand up and you're like, I just want to thank my mom. I just want to thank my parents, my dad. Well, you know, you say some benign, nice things about your dad, but when it comes to your mom you give a little extra she has been you have been my rock and you say some very specific nice things about your mom that you don't say about your dad and not that you say anything bad about your dad you're just like hey dad i love you yeah blah blah blah blah mom i love you know yeah but i also i mean you said in your email you don't want to just have him walk down walk you down the aisle so he doesn't throw a temper tantrum. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:50:09 Which I totally agree with. I can see it both ways. It's not a fuck you to dad, but it's like, oh, so now he should just be able to do whatever he wants on her wedding day because she doesn't want him to throw a temper tantrum and not come. Listen, life's full of choices and tough choices. But we are dealing with, obviously, an old guy. And I'm guessing he might be traditional, at least more than you. And being a father and having a daughter getting married and walking her down the aisle is kind of a big deal to a lot of dads, even the bad ones.

Starting point is 00:50:44 Yeah. Yeah. Like, what's a bigger priority, your wedding day and your mom walking you down the aisle or just your overall relationship with your dad and really hurting him and having it be, like, it doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is one of those situations where you kind of have to be the bigger person or be empathetic in a way that he's not willing to be and be okay with that. But like being the bigger person is a good thing. Like I know sometimes we're annoyed by it and we're frustrated and we kind of wish other people would be the bigger person. But someone else being the bigger person implies that you're kind of – it's your turn to throw the temper tant you know, the petty one or something like that. Right. So I'm not telling you what to do. It's

Starting point is 00:51:28 just more, I just feel like there's other ways to show your mom how much she means to you and how grateful for you, you are for the relationship you have with her. That doesn't include a simultaneous fuck you to your dad, even if you don't mean it that way. That's how it's going to feel towards him. And if you know it's going to be some really difficult thing, I feel like there's other ways to show your appreciation to your mom without simultaneously really disrupting this already fragile relationship with your dad that you want to have. And if he is getting older and his health isn't great, it's just one of those things when, not to get morbid, but if your dad was stage four cancer

Starting point is 00:52:12 and had six months left to live, would that change your decision? Yes and no. Yes, because it's like, oh, well, I guess he needs to do this one last thing. But then I'm also kind of like, rationally, would he even be able to? But I get where you're going with that. Let's assume he could totally walk down the aisle physically, but you just knew his time was limited. I would say, yeah, that would.

Starting point is 00:52:36 Then I would be doing that strictly for him. Well, you are, I mean, make no mistake, you are doing this for him. Yeah, this is a sacrifice you're making on your wedding day. You're not doing it for you. You would rather have your mom. We know that, right? Right. Have you thought about having both parents walk you down the aisle? So one of my friends actually suggested that, and I was like, I didn't even, that never even crossed my mind just because we don't do dual things with them. So it was a thought. It's definitely a thought. And if,

Starting point is 00:53:06 and if you don't, maybe if you don't want it to have like them both to be on either side of you at the same time, like having your mom walk you halfway down and then your dad standing up and then walking you the final way to, you know, like splitting, I think there's like multiple ways to split it up where maybe you could then

Starting point is 00:53:20 kind of appease dad while also like honoring what feels like really authentic to you, which is like having your mom there right yeah how do you think your dad would handle that i don't know probably a lot better than just and not doing it at all but yeah and then you can make it more about like hey i just want mom to be a part of this too like this is something unique i want to do i want to try and i just want you both to be a part of it. I'm a big believer. It's your wedding day. Do what you want. So ultimately there's that. But I also think when it comes to managing relationships with family, you know, I think it's really important to always try to be the bigger person. Time's limited, life's short. You know, you want a

Starting point is 00:54:01 relationship with your dad. Most of our relationships with our parents are imperfect and they continue to be as we get older. Right. Yeah. It's something that's very difficult getting in as you get older, like you just said, noticing their toxic traits. And I'm used to any sign of toxicity in somebody, I cut them out completely. Yeah. So it's really difficult for me to not cut him out. I think you just got to get good at setting boundaries and enforcing them and you can do that without cutting people out sometimes we cut people out because we don't know how to enforce boundaries you know we don't know it's just easier it is yeah it's just easier it's just less work but this is your dad right with friends

Starting point is 00:54:37 you're like fuck it it's not worth it you know i'm not related to you like who cares i just i have found with uh more more just with people i know and family and in life that when it comes to family it's just any amount of interactions of love that you can exchange with those people are always always valued for a long time and sometimes we lose the people we love with with resentment still lingering and unspoken words of love having not been expressed and anger and things like that when we don't have the opportunity anymore. And we don't want to live with that type of regret and things like that. And you never know.

Starting point is 00:55:16 You never know. Your relationship with your dad could improve to a point where you would regret not having him be a part of that experience of you walking down the aisle. That's a good point. Unless you're really against it. I would, I think you're better off figuring out a way to include him, whether it's having him do it and then showing your mom a different way through other gestures or some sort of speech or just doing something unique. It's your wedding. You can be creative with various things. Well, and also you're going to have some moments with her too. Like even if they're not in the public eye,

Starting point is 00:55:49 for example, like getting ready in the morning, like why don't you get her a very specific gift or card or something to give her in the bridal suite? You know, ask her to be the one to put you in your wedding dress. You have all those photos. You have, I don't know if you're doing a videographer, but like there's a lot of mother-daughter moments that are inherently built into the day because typically your dad isn't

Starting point is 00:56:07 getting ready with you. So you'll also have all those moments as well. Yeah. Also you have to keep in mind too, like there are intimate moments that are between you and whoever that's private. No one needs to know about it. And there are public moments at a wedding, like walking down the aisle. And in fairness, like, well, again, your dad might be a prick. I don't know. But you will like, you will be raising questions at your wedding as to why your dad isn't walking you down the aisle and your mom. I mean, that's drama potentially too. And then he gets defensive and puts him on the spot, you know, or why is your dad not at the wedding, you know, type of thing if he's not walking you down the aisle. So unfortunately you have to deal with something that you don't want to deal with on your wedding

Starting point is 00:56:47 and that sucks and i'm sorry but i do think there are ways to work with what you have and i you know if it makes you feel better i think a lot of families deal with shit like this you're not alone in that so try not to like beat yourself up or feel bad about like this sucks that i have to deal with this on my wedding you know i think a lot of people have to deal with things on their wedding, but you can still make the most of it and you can make it fun and you can figure out a way to make the people you want to feel special and appreciated for all the love they gave you and reduce the amount of drama or hurt feelings or, or making someone feel outed in front of their, in their community of family and friends as to like why

Starting point is 00:57:26 your dad was not given the honor to walk you down the aisle. Yeah, no, those are great points. This is why I reached out to you. All right. Because I knew you'd give a different perspective I hadn't thought of. Yeah, just some things to consider. But I would sit down and think of ways that you could honor your mother in the way that you want her to feel honored in other ways at the ceremony. It's your wedding. You could do whatever you want. You can have a special moment

Starting point is 00:57:51 separate at the reception or before. Literally do whatever you want. But when it comes to like walking you down the aisle, obviously that's like a staple and it's something that fathers really value. Maybe this is a way to bring you closer with your father by saying, you know, I a way to bring you closer with your father by saying, you know, I want you to walk you down the aisle and I hope we can always, I always want to feel

Starting point is 00:58:10 closer to you. You know, I, and just, I think if you just express your dad, how you always want to be closer with him, hopefully that will make him want to be closer with you too. And it sounds like you've never actually done that. And not that you're wrong in therapy to express your frustrations and anger towards your dad, but saying, I want to be closer with you and saying, I went to your father in general and feel like he's gotten to know you and feel like he sees you become the woman that you're becoming and just focus on that rather than the past. Easier said than done, I get, but I have just found that people who are able to do that tend to be just happier. And it doesn't mean they don't have disappointment with their, you know, their parents at times, you know, parents are disappointed in their kids all the time. They still love them, you know, like a lot of parents, their kids make choices they didn't want for their kids and so be it. And your dad's making choices you don't want for him or you, but sometimes we

Starting point is 00:59:15 just have to accept that when it comes to family, as long as you are healthy and safe and, and. Okay. All right. So cut him a little bit of a slack. Yeah. I mean, for everyone's sake, keep in mind, cutting him slack might just overall have you have a better wedding. There's a sense that if you have him not do this, as much as you have the opportunity to honor your mother, it's going to be something you're going to be worrying about leading up to the wedding. It's going to be something you're going to be thinking about at the wedding. If your dad's not, you know what I'm saying? It's going to become an emotionally taxing experience. And I think you, again, you can honor your mother in different ways that's less emotionally taxing

Starting point is 00:59:49 on you and doesn't like make your day about your dad not being there. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. I hadn't looked at any of that really. That makes sense. Thank you. All right. Well, glad we could help and keep us posted. I want you to decide and how the wedding goes. When's the big date? We don't have one set yet, but it's probably going to be like around November. Awesome. Well, you have some time. You also have plenty of time.

Starting point is 01:00:12 This is great. And in the meantime, maybe focus on mending this relationship with your father. Not mending it. Maybe mending is the wrong word because it might not be mended the way you want it. But maybe try to grow your relationship with your father within the boundaries that you have set for yourself. Okay. All right. Sounds good. All right. Take care.

Starting point is 01:00:29 Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Vanessa. Hi, Vanessa. How old are you? I'm 25.

Starting point is 01:00:38 How can I help? So basically my fiance and I got engaged in July this past summer. And I have two friends that are coming basically out of the woodworks after I got engaged, even though I kind of distanced myself from them over these past few years because of how negative they are, toxic, unsupportive of my relationship from the jump. And now they're trying to come back and hang out with me, even though they seem like nothing is wrong. And I don't really know what to do. Interesting. So why did you, I mean, you sound like you said they didn't support the relationship, but can you give me more specifics around why you distance yourself?

Starting point is 01:01:13 Yeah. So when I first started dating my now fiance a few years ago, it was about a year after I got out of like a really shitty relationship. This relationship was like 10 times better. I was so happy. I was, you know, so excited to introduce them to him and everything and get to know them because you know he was very social completely opposite of my ex when I was like I would love for you guys to meet him and like get to know him because he would love to get to know you I see a future with him they were just like no like we're friends with you like we're not friends with them like why do we have to get to know him? And I was very honest from the jump. And I was like, this is someone I see a future

Starting point is 01:01:50 with. Like you guys are my best friends. If there is a future here, which otherwise, obviously, I want you guys to be involved and you're my best friends if you're not involved. So at that point, I just started to kind of pull back a little bit. And they just didn't understand why I think they had a different mindset. They were like, we have boyfriends, you don't know them. And I was like, well, I'd love to know them if you let me know them. But it's just very different and just kind of stuck in their like, toxic high school ways, I guess. And I was just polar opposite. Like they went away to school, I stayed home, I commuted, I worked, I was just polar opposite like they went away to school I stayed home I commuted I worked I did everything like that and they kind of didn't support that either they wanted me to

Starting point is 01:02:30 like move out to state it was just very kind of judgy negative giving me advice when I didn't ask for it which I always hear you say like don't get people if I said they don't ask for it and I was very happy with my life and then they just jumped in and tried to take control, which was never asked for. You stepped away. You got some distance. No communication whatsoever? No. No communication. One of them lives

Starting point is 01:02:56 away out of state. One lives in state. The one who lives in state was starting to come back more, asking to go to dinner and stuff here and there. And I would just to kind of feel out the reins. But like they're the two close friends. Like if all three were hanging out like I was with her wheel, they were really close.

Starting point is 01:03:15 But still, I just felt very anxious. And I had to always watch what I was saying because I always felt like I was going to be judged or talked about afterwards. So no really communication. And when you're at these like recent dinners with the one friend, it sounds like you just kind of sat there and observed. Did you really open up about how you felt about things? We had a talk a few years ago, which was before I got into, or right after I got into the relationship, basically being like, I don't appreciate you guys telling me how to live my life I've never complained about my life I'm happy here I don't appreciate you judging not one you know explaining the whole thing with you know my now fiance and she was just like okay well that's just how I am so I was like okay well I don't appreciate that and I don't want that so if to me to be a good friend like I just want you to be supportive of me happy for me but during these dinners I would kind of feel

Starting point is 01:04:09 it out to see if anything changed and I felt like I did felt like it did but then we all got together a few months after we got engaged and it was just kind of like back into the old ways and I was like I'm so what do you mean what do you mean so basically they came over my apartment which they hadn't seen which another thing me and my fiance got an apartment last year and i told them and all they were asking questions like oh where how much why i thought you wanted to buy a house all of this stuff and i was like let's just say like congrats i'm so happy for you versus like judging. So they ended up coming here and right off the bat, it was grilling me with questions about my wedding,

Starting point is 01:04:51 basically asking what they should wear. Never asked how my fiance was, never asked how I was doing, demanded they see my dress, all of this stuff. And I was just like, oh, what? Like, how about, how are you? I haven't seen you guys in two years. We haven't hung out. We haven't caught up.

Starting point is 01:05:06 We haven't talked. And now I'm just being drilled with wedding questions, which to be honest, I don't even want you guys at. Why call in? Like, what's the reason for trying to, because it sounds like the obvious answer is to like, I don't know, just not having to be friends. Yes.

Starting point is 01:05:23 My question, because I know it's going to come up. As of now, I feel like in their heads, they're like, we've been friends with you forever. We've talked about our weddings forever growing up. We're going to be invited. When we got together, I never said you're not invited. I kind of just would go along with it. So my question is, they're very confrontational people.

Starting point is 01:05:41 So when they realize that they're not getting an invite or say, so you've already decided. I've talked about it with my fiance. I was on the fence and I'm just like, no, I want people there who are, that's a part of our relationship.

Starting point is 01:05:53 Sorry. Like I'm, I'm over that. I'm over the friendship. Like I've decided that. Okay. I don't know what to say. Basically when they do confront me about why aren't we invited?

Starting point is 01:06:03 I thought everything was good. Where to go from there. So how do you feel? Okay. What do you have to lose? You're you, you say you're done, right?

Starting point is 01:06:12 You've already mentally moved on. You, you're not even calling here to be like, should I invite them? What should I do? Should I rekindle it? You know, you're not,

Starting point is 01:06:20 that's yeah. I'm also, I guess kind of think, cause we have been friends for so long, but every, I always wonder like, should I i but then like we get together and i'm like oh i can't friendship friends you know people come and go in our lives people break up with each other friends friendships end they're not the like romantic relationships aren't the only ones that uh and you know people evolve and move on your priorities change you know, people evolve and move on. Your priorities change. You know,

Starting point is 01:06:46 some people mature, some people don't, some people realize that their friendships, you know, you see people for who they really are after, after a certain period of time, because of certain situations, you know, you can be friends with people, become roommates and be like, oh, wow, not friends anymore. You know? And like being friends back in high school or college sometimes was all about like meeting boys or liking the same bar or like same musician you know because you're all like Taylor Swift fans or whatever you know that's sometimes all it takes you know you both watch you all watch The Bachelor and you talked about it and so now you're friends and like you all were single and like oh I guess we're friends and then you know as you get older you notice certain things

Starting point is 01:07:23 like you're noticing about them and it's not fitting into the life that you chose for yourself. It sounds like you were open to it, but yeah, from what you're describing, what would your friends say if we were calling them up? If we call them in and what would they say about your situation, do you think? Or about this criticism? I think they wouldn't think anything was wrong with it because that's just, I guess, how they've always been. And I guess growing up, high school, college, we kind of just all hung out. It was who I got along with.

Starting point is 01:07:56 It is what it is, and that's just how they are, so I don't think they think anything is wrong with it because they would say they're unfiltered. They're outgoing. They'll say what they want. Yeah, yeah. And they have the right to be unfiltered, but people have to recognize that

Starting point is 01:08:12 if they don't want to filter themselves, people will filter them by disassociating themselves with them. They'll not be invited. If you're like a social liability, then you can be like, hey, I'm a big personality. I say what I think and feel all the time, but I have to recognize that there's a time and a place for that. And like, if I can't just always be like, well, this is who I am, you know, sure,

Starting point is 01:08:35 I can always be myself. But then I, people have the right to like uninvite me, you know, if I want to, if I choose to adjust. So how do you go about it? I mean, like you could write a letter, you could do that. You can just write an email to both of them and just say, hey, listen, I just thought I wanted to reach out to you guys. Yeah. I wonder if it could be like, I wanted to reach out to acknowledge a disconnect because when we hung out, it seemed like you guys presumed you'd be invited to my wedding, but I feel like this friendship is no longer in a place where that was my plan. I didn't want you to feel like shocked or wedding, but I feel like this friendship is no longer in a place where that was my plan. I didn't want you to feel like shocked or like, I don't know if there's kind of

Starting point is 01:09:09 like a, you want to hear it from me? There's no perfect way. You know, like a letter versus like calling them up here, you're going to definitely, you're going to articulate yourself better most likely in a letter because usually with these types of things, you'll go in with a plan of what you want to say and then it will quickly become contentious. And then you'll start responding to what they say rather than getting everything out that you want. So there's that. But it's real, kind of simple. It's like, listen, I think we obviously have grown apart. It hurt me when you guys didn't support my relationship when we first started dating. Obviously, you guys know we lost touch because of that. And I distanced myself from you because you didn't support me. I've always valued the fact that you guys have

Starting point is 01:09:48 been outspoken people, but I also have valued people who can be supportive and make me feel like they support my choices. Because while I'm glad that you're outspoken, I'm at the point in my life where I just want friends who ultimately will support me, are there for me when I need them, but in the meantime, are just supportive of my choices and happy to help when I ask for help. And right now, and you guys seem really resistant to that, to the point where not only do you not do that, you make me feel judged for my choices and you make me feel like you're not happy for me. And I don't enjoy your company anymore. Basically.

Starting point is 01:10:28 And here's the thing. It's like we talked about this with a different caller. Like, you'll be the bad guy. It's fine. Right. A hundred percent, too. Yeah, you can't avoid that. So, like, you might as well just tell them how you feel.

Starting point is 01:10:41 Like, if there's a small chance that you're still hoping to salvage this friendship, then you can try to say it in a really, you could try to without uninviting them to say, it really bothered me you did this. I don't know why you guys keep doing this. It clearly has created a distance in our friendship. And it just makes me not want to be around you guys. If they respond with the same, I don't know what you're talking about. This is who we are. Then you say, I assume you might say something like that. And honestly, I'm like, as people, I love you

Starting point is 01:11:12 and I wish you nothing but the best. And I just don't see the point of us being in each other's lives anymore because this is a boundary I'm setting for myself. You guys don't want to respect it. And that's fine. Like, I'm not mad, but I just, I don't want, I don't think we need to be in each other's lives.

Starting point is 01:11:29 And this maybe like do that rather than being like, I'm not inviting you to my wedding because being not, not being each other's lives implies what you need to imply. Yeah, right. No, I agree. And I feel like I didn't want to just kind of bring it up randomly, like just randomly text. Because we talk like they text here and there being like, Hey, I'm home want to do something? No, not really. And I don't want to be like, Hey, like, I'm good. I feel like the conversation is going to come up when they realize that they're not getting a save the date or they're not getting an invite? Do I just bring it up then? I just don't know how or when, I guess, to go about it. I think you bring it up now.

Starting point is 01:12:12 I mean, I think there's no bad way, right? But I do think, I think if you wait for them to figure it out, it becomes more about not being invited to the wedding. And I think they have a way of making you seem like the bad guy. Either way, you're going to be the bad guy, but they can make it to the wedding. And I think they have a way of making you seem like the bad guy. I mean, either way, you're going to be the bad guy, but they can make it about the wedding. She didn't invite me to a wedding. Oh, she's trying to save money or he didn't invite us or whatever excuse they want to come up with. And I think if you reach out now, I think you're more in control of the conversation. They're not just responding to not being invited. You're reaching

Starting point is 01:12:43 out preemptively to say, listen, it really hurt me that you did this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's upsetting me. You know, I've always, like I miss the friendship that we have, but what I don't miss is constantly feeling judged and criticized by you guys and not supported every time I'm around you.

Starting point is 01:12:59 See what they say. They're probably going to say what you imagine them to say. And then you say, well, yeah, I assumed you would say that because you've always said that and that's hurtful. But at the end of the day, like, I guess I'm reaching out because it hopes that you would say something different, but you haven't. And I think I just, I needed to reach out to let you know that like, maybe we shouldn't just be in each other. We shouldn't be in each other's lives.

Starting point is 01:13:18 Do I block, delete or anything afterwards? Do I just kind of let it be? delete or anything afterwards do i just kind of let it be i mean you block if you think it's necessary you know if they're like harassing you and my guess is probably it won't be necessary yeah i don't think so i don't know one of them is if here i guess it would probably publicly display something because she's that type of person what do you mean other one now just how she handles past relationships um she kind of puts yeah she'll probably put out some petty face facebook post something on blast even like tagging she's done that tagging what like what would she tag like tagging a person she's an ex a past friend being like with some of those stupid folks like on instagram you find being like this is you like you're disgusting like the worst people who hurt you are the ones

Starting point is 01:14:13 who said they would help you and like full-blown will like tag the person it's kind of funny a little bit iconic it is it is well like you know she's gonna do yeah i just don't think you need to block her i don't think we need to preemptively block like no see what happens but yeah but it doesn't sound like an awesome person and if you know she's gonna do it then when she does it you're not surprised it's like whatever i don't think there's a super wrong answer but i think you're in more control by doing it preemptively and not them focusing on not getting the invite. And then you can better articulate why you are removing themselves from your life. And question if they do respond in a different way, basically being like, I'm so sorry,

Starting point is 01:14:57 I didn't know this. You have a decision to make. You can say, well, thank you for finally recognizing that. It means a lot. I do miss what we had. I just don't miss what we have. And what we have is you guys being unsupportive friends. You put me down. That's exactly what it is. Who wants that? I can be a judgmental, opinionated person person but if someone tells me that i'm like doing this i would respond and like i'm really i'm sorry you know sometimes i get ahead of myself you're right this is a beautiful place i shouldn't be so judgmental like but if they can't do that then what the fuck you know and like i'm all for like the opinionated do your thing like that's that's totally fine and i have other friends like that love them with my whole heart but it's just the whole you know and bite your fucking tongue yeah

Starting point is 01:15:48 be supportive just say congrats happy for you move on and so but yeah i would do i would do that well let us know what you decide and then let us know what the response was absolutely i will send in text if it happens over that. Congratulations on, on love and your engagement. You have an incredible Christmas tree back there. Thanks. All right. Take care.

Starting point is 01:16:13 All right. You too. All right. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatcastme.com. Cast with a K. We'll see you back on Wednesday for freestyle and Thursday for going deeper.

Starting point is 01:16:27 Have a great day.

The Viall Files - E521 Ask Nick - Flirting with a Questionable Character

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