The Viall Files - E53 Ask Nick - Pastor’s Ready To Party

Episode Date: October 21, 2019

Today’s Ask Nick starts with an update from past callers! Then we talk to a pastor who divorced her pastor husband, a guy who keeps getting stood up by online dates, a girl who fell for her trainer, and someone whose friend is dating a loser.  Keep those antennas up, people! Send your questions to [e-mail] to get on the show. THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: BUTCHERBOX: http://butcherbox.com/viall for a FREE TURKEY! BETTERHELP: https://betterhelp.com/viall MODERN FERTILITY: https://modernfertility.com/viall/ Get tickets to Walk The Purple Carpet with Nick and Lauren Zima for CFF: https://finest.cff.org/walkthepurplecarpet/nickviall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is up everybody welcome to another episode of vile files happy monday i'm trying to just creep rochelle out every time i say you Your voice gets lower and lower. It's vile. I hope you guys are having a great day so far. Start your day. I don't know how eager you are listening to this episode, but we appreciate you tuning in. Rochelle, you told me we have some updates from some of our callers.

We've been getting so many emails from people being like, what is happening with these people? I need to know and we have some and some people have yeah emailed in and so it's kind of fun well let's get to it okay you ready for some updates i am ready for some updates how are we doing i'm waiting for that update this is like nick okay you ruined my life no no no you remember that a woman who thought she was being groomed for a throuple yeah Yeah. She met the guy and he was like being flirty. And then all of a sudden.

The wife shows up. The wife shows up. Yeah. And she's like, what's going on? Yes. So we had some listeners thought maybe they were trying to recruit her for a multi-level marketing scheme, which I was like, oh, maybe that is true. But it turns out she met up with the guy a couple more times at the dog park.

And the second time he started getting into his marital problems. So she thinks that's where the weird energy comes from. That maybe he was, you know, trying to get out there with other women. And that's why he wasn't mentioning the wife and whatnot. I wonder if the marital problems might come from the fact that he's showing up to dog parks without his wedding ring and talking to other women. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

And. But no throuple at least. No throuple. I think she should, if she's listening, I don't think we got her answer. You should probably shut it down at this point. Yeah. She said she hasn't seen him in a couple of weeks and she's just fine with that. Yeah.

Yeah. But I don't totally believe her. She said that when she called, you know what i'm saying yeah everyone i feel like i have my answer i'm not gonna see him and then she's met him twice right yeah she is and i get it she's intrigued it's fun it's exciting she's trying to figure it out it's something to do it's like basically playing a game yeah a board game but like now that she has her answer i think she should walk away she thinks he's hot right she's yeah well yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm not her problem but the problem i don't believe her when she says she's fine everyone always says they're fine i'm fine i don't care if i'm inside me that is a funny pattern that we're seeing okay so tori um so we

had the woman call in who said that she liked the guy but he was a bad kisser and he wasn't really listening to her when she said she didn't want tongue never got her off okay so this is so she brought it up very kindly and in a way she thought he would be receptive to he got overly defensive and was like super shocked then he started being incredibly rude and condescending. See, I told you guys get like this. Yeah, and we said that we could do that. Yes, yes, yes.

It proved a theory slash vibe that I had where he thinks he's God's gift to women, thinks he's amazing and needs no improvement in any areas of life. Which is why he's not good at doing it. Yeah, oh yeah. So she ended things with him. Great.

I kind of, yeah a that's a positive outcome same thing happened with my guy when i tried to he got so mad i mean that's probably gonna happen but think about like if you're getting a guy who's like in his late to mid late 20s early 30s and he hasn't figured it out yet yeah it might be one no one ever told him but two he hasn't tried to get better because he might be one, no one ever told him, but two, he hasn't tried to get better because he thought he's awesome. And if he thinks he's awesome, he probably has an ego about it. Here's my guess, is that you and her still did a good thing because now he's at least heard it. Even if he got defensive and he got condescending,

it's all probably coming from a place of insecurity and his ego lashing out yeah and it's good that she ended it but now she's planted that seed and he might he might like put it all on her and blame him but at least he's now he's heard it and she still is given an opportunity to someday get better i'm not making excuses for him for like being rude and condescending yeah but that's almost inevitable uh for him to say that but like i think now he now he at least has heard it right and that maybe it's working its way right now he's gonna at least wonder and maybe the next person you kiss he might be like you know he might maybe he he might have gone back and like had the guts to like follow up with an ex that he's friends with and be like can you just let me am i not good i still think it's a good thing. She probably helped him and she can feel good about not, you know, not finding a guy that

gets her off. Yeah. Listeners, you are in for a treat for this episode. This is one of my favorites. Is it? Yeah. I thought it was fun. I quite liked it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was fun. We had some good laughs. Some good laughs. She has a good time. Again, as always, we really appreciate you guys listening and your questions don't forget to send in your questions

ask Nick at castwithakmedia.com also we're still far away from our $5,000 goal for cystic fibrosis helping to cure it and save Rochelle's sister's life save my sister's life please it's true she could die

without yeah we're all someday gonna die but it's on you guys yes get to the science out there and again that's the thing they've the truthfully all jokes aside they've done amazing things uh with research and and and uh drastically increasing the life expectancy of people with cystic fibrosis and it's through the research and through other things that they've done and that comes only with your um the money people donate so they can so they can do that so buy tickets to come hang out nick and lauren zima's hosting the event where can they where can they donate um i'll put the link in the in the show notes on the show notes all right well we have a great episode for you so strap on your seatbelt get ready it's gonna be wild

how's it going good it's. Great. And what's your name? My name is Katie and I'm 28. Katie, 28. Katie, 28. How can we help you? Well, I've been married for three years. Or I was married for three years. And my husband and I separated in April. And then I went ahead and decided to file for divorce.

My divorce is actually final tomorrow, fun fact. And anyways, I was 22 when we started dating, so it's been a while since I've been out there in the dating world. And I was a virgin when we got married, so he was the only person I was expecting to be with in that way. So yeah, I would love your tips and advice on jumping back out there. I mean, are you just looking for like general like how-to's or have you been dating? Well, she has kind of an interesting backstory that you included in the email that you kind of left out here. I don't know if you want to. Rochelle keeps our callers on our top.

I told you to be short. Short, but that's fine. Juicy. It's too juicy to leave out. Yeah want rochelle is our rochelle keeps our callers on our time i told you to be short but he does fine juicy it's too juicy to leave out yeah rochelle's the police she keeps she keeps our callers accountable she's like that's not what you email it's bullshit i want more um no please uh give us the interesting background of of why okay because like yeah i mean like there's a bunch of stuff on the internet of like how to, but what's really going on here? Right. So the juicy side of this is that my husband and I which kind of led to like some verbal emotional abuse stuff. He wasn't really willing to admit that he had the problems he had. And kind of at the end of the day, it became like an integrity thing for me.

Like, I can't know what your life looks like behind the scenes. Like, I can't look people in the face and be like, hey, this guy's your pastor. Is he still a pastor? So that's kind of the backstory on that. And my email was like, don't worry, I still love Jesus. Like I still, you know, all that stuff. It didn't like jade me, but I think my biggest fear was it hurting people in the church. Even probably I stayed longer than I should have because of that fact.

I've seen what church hurt does to people, and I didn't want to be a source of any of that for anyone. Yeah, I can only imagine. So you are a pastor. You were both pastors. Right, yeah. We both worked for his parents, who like the lead pastors of the church. And I was the pastor. And then when I decided to file, it kind of also came with an understanding that I would resign my position.

No. That's tough. Yeah. I mean, good for you for following your heart. Yeah. Yeah. So that happened. But I'm kind of like trying to figure out what I'm going to do next. I did get a severance, which was really nice. So I'm just trying to figure out a lot of my life right now.

So you're currently unemployed and single. Wow. Yeah. Is he still a pastor at that church? I'm assuming. I mean, he works for his parents. at that church? I'm assuming. I mean, he works for his parents. Yeah, he is.

I know that he's on some type of sabbatical slash probably like some... There were just some things that I know they weren't aware of that I let them know. I know that they are taking care of some of it. I don't know the extent of what's going on, but I do know he's still... Good news. It's not your problem anymore. So that's positive. but you know he's still yeah good news it's not your problem anymore so that's that's not my problem anymore yeah great news um yeah i mean that's i can imagine that this is you know more unique than getting back out there um or at least what it might seem like um i mean are you are you actively looking for employment right now is that something

that's a stress point for you? Are you pretty comfortable where you are? Have you given thought to, do you still want to remain a pastor? Are you looking at even making a total shift? Yeah, I'm kind of trying to figure that out right now. I've been looking. It's just I've never, like, looked for a church job. I worked for my parents.

They're pastors. And then I then worked for my in-laws. So I've always, like, worked in a church that I attended or knew the pastors. It's, like, really hard for me to just be like, I want to work at this church, not knowing what it is. I also have, like, a degree in, like, marketing and communications. So I've been looking kind of at both sides, just figuring it out. I'm not in a rush. I'm kind of taken care of for now.

Okay. So you seem good. Yeah. You seem good at that in that space. I mean, have you been dating much? I mean, have you gone out there or have you even tried? I haven't really been dating. There's been like some randos from my past that like have the trickle of information that I'm about to be officially divorced has diffused. So I've kind of like talked to a few people, but not really like jumped back out there fully or like gone on a date. I was kind of waiting till my divorce was final. Okay, that's fine. And good news is it's tomorrow. Tomorrow, yep.

I mean, I'm just talking talking you seem like you have like you don't seem overly stressed out or you don't seem like conflicted about like uh you don't seem to like to be totally re-evaluating everything so to speak and i think in a good way where i feel like some people in your position could just really almost be like oh my god i'm. I was a pastor. Like your whole life. Foundations of my entire life have crumbled. And it seems like you aren't feeling that way unless you're masking it or you feel generally pretty excited almost about the prospects of getting out there.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think my whole like foundation was like rocked. I don't, I have a pretty like personal face and I don't really like put that on the actions of church leaders, probably because I was a pastor's kid. So I've kind of seen all you can see behind the scenes and I'm like, everyone's a human. But yeah, I'm not super stressed or anything. I'm relieved that I'm out of that situation and it was pretty toxic. So yeah, I'm just, I think I'm just nervous about jumping back out there just because faith's a huge deal to me and not a lot of people agree with like the values that I hold. Um, so it can be difficult the way that like my ex and I met without our parents were friends. They were both pastors and we kind of ran in the same circle. So it just kind of happened and made sense. And that's how a lot of the people that I've dated, it happened. So just kind of like jumping out there and dating and not having, not meeting someone who has the mutual faith background that you've had in your husband?

Because despite him being toxic and not working out, that was something that drew you to him. Yeah, and I think just, I don't think everyone has like, have all the exact same values as me just respect them. You know, it's really what I want. And, you know, it's just, I was 22. The last time I was openly dating, and it was a lot different. There weren't all like the dating apps that there are now and all the things like it just feels a lot more complicated than it used to. Well, I guess my answer is, it just doesn't have to be I mean, I get where you're coming from. Because as you've said, you haven't been involved and you've had, you know,

it was kind of almost easy in terms of when you met your ex-husband. It kind of made sense, I'm guessing. His parents are pastors, my parents are pastors. You know, those are the reasons when you're young you kind of settled out. You're like, oh, this is perfect. I found you. The idea of things are, I think, when you're younger, more appealing than when you get older. And I think what you probably agree is, now that you've had this relationship and you've lived through this, your expectations of what you want are probably a little bit more defined and probably more strictly based off of your specific needs, not like, oh my God, he's a pastor's son and we get along and he's cute,

you know? And so hone into that and like really think about what you want. As far as dating is concerned, my advice to you is don't stress out about the unknown, even though you don't know it. Don't create situations. Don't tell yourself it's going to be overly complicated and all these things. It's a natural fear to wonder if someone's going to have the same beliefs that you have, but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of religious people out there, a lot of Christians out there, a lot of people who believe in God, a lot of people who find that very attractive in someone. I'm guessing as a pastor, you're very comfortable about speaking about your faith and about your beliefs. And I think in general, that's attractive for people just to be confident about their

beliefs. You're going to attract people who are interested in that. Now, you're going to have to decide when you start dating and you meet someone, you know, I think what might be interesting to you is you might meet someone at first where you're like really attracted to them, you find them charismatic, they're going to be very different than your husband, they may treat you in ways that you're not used to, and yet they're not religious, you know, and then you might have to deal with that. And to your point, you might find that they are open to your beliefs and respect your beliefs.

They're just not quite there. You know, maybe they grew up religious and they've gotten a little bit away from the church or things like that. So you might have to experience that. I would challenge you to just be more open right now. I wouldn't close anyone off. to experience that. I would challenge you to just be more open right now. I wouldn't close anyone off. I wouldn't say no to people and men because they immediately say, well, I'm not really that religious or I was religious and maybe they had a bad experience growing up and they've gotten a

little bit away from the church. I think right now you should just be open. You have been married for so long. I wouldn't try to settle down anytime soon. I'm assuming you want to. I get it. You probably still want to have a family. Enjoy this next year of just like really, I think, you know, just say next year I'm going to date. I'm going to go out there. I'm going to meet people.

Who knows? You might fall in love in two weeks. I don't know. But I think you should just have that mindset of just really being it about yourself and enjoy this time as someone who is single to, you know, date more than one person, to get a variety of the different people out there. Maybe make out with a few guys, you know, you don't have to go out there and sleep with everyone, but like you have the right to experience different types of men and what it's like out there. And so try to have fun with it. You know, I think it's just having a mindset of don't tell yourself it's daunting. Don't tell yourself it's

intimidating. You know, dating apps and things like that. Don't do everything at once. Try one, you know, and when it comes to dating apps, just a heads up, like it's a way to meet people. You know, it's not the end all be all. It's not a lifesaver. It can be daunting. There's a lot of people on there that you will like and dislike and everyone's going to seem somewhat disinterested and hard to read, but don't let that discourage you. It's like going to a bar, really, on your phone in your living room. I mean, if you have that mentality, then dating apps are just another avenue to meet people that you might like their face and be open to grabbing a coffee or a drink. I don't know the rules. Are you planning on waiting until marriage again

until you, because I know that was originally what you did. Is that your plan moving forward? Yeah. I know you talk about 3D culture a lot on this podcast. I listen a lot. But yeah, I'm pretty. Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure. I think I was super naive going into this relationship. Like I did blow through a lot of red flags because like kind of like you said, Nick, like, oh, this is of course it's supposed to happen. Like, look at our families. Look at our lives. We want the same thing. This is everything. And I kind of blew through and thought there was no way we could fail. And then like, you know, obviously not having a lot of experience, neither one of us had a lot of experience sexually because we both were raised the exact same way. And that played into our marriage a lot. And I think I just didn't realize like how big of a deal sex is in a marriage. So I think I'm pretty sure that I want to wait again. But also, I definitely think that I want to marry someone more experienced this time sexually. Okay. So in a perfect world, you would like to meet someone, wait to have sex. It would be nice if they might be more experienced, but that would be your ideal. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I'm asking, I'm naturally curious. As someone who has had sex before, I understand it was with your husband. Now that you're older, I'm curious as to why that is. Is that because of just how you were raised or you feel like that's the right thing to do um i don't say that like i mean i had catholic guilt was a real i call it catholic i grew up catholic you know uh but because you have had sex before i feel like you know just listening to you talk it seems like you want to have sex with more people, but you feel like it would be wrong.

And so ideally, it'd be nice to meet a guy. But if I got a hall pass from God, I'm pretty sure I'd want to fuck a bunch of dudes. Well, not fuck a bunch of dudes. I mean, have a little sex. Test the waters before you jump in you know going around and like but like if you meet a guy and it feels right and you do it without the burden of i have to marry this guy yeah um type of thing right um yeah i mean i know that y'all talk about like i said purity culture a lot i know rochelle like you were raised that way too um falling off the wagon

i feel like i'm friends with you guys because i listen to this so much but yeah uh no i was just raised in like i feel like a really healthy purity culture um where like i was taught like i wasn't in the purity culture that was like sex is bad sex is bad sex is bad like i was taught like sex is incredible but it just works best in marriage um just like the level of connection that's there and like the commitment level yeah um and i also just think that like god like tells us to do certain things a certain way for our protection not like for to keep us from having fun so we don't like a talker like that you slap their hand away from a hot stove.

They're going to be like, you're so mean. And you're actually like, I'm protecting you. So I just feel like the level of connection that happens, I would rather just have the commitment of marriage.

Obviously, like, you know, there's no guarantee you're not going to get divorced, obviously. But yeah, that's kind of my thought process.

I think that's great. And I think that's, you seem like very confident in your beliefs and I support that. You may run into some obstacles there with the men you meet, depending on where you meet them. It just depends on where you are kind of shopping for your groceries, so to speak. If you continue to shop for the groceries and places where you have a bunch of... you know, like if it's other like church activities, but like if you're out there on dating apps and going

out with your friends, you happen to meet just some guy, chances are he's not a virgin. Chances are he's not waiting for marriage. And those will be conversations you'll have to have. I think it's just tougher these days in that sense and i think and you know this already but like uh minus like what the idea of why you got married when you're younger a lot of people i think in the purity correct me if i'm wrong rochelle like with the purity culture there is this pressure to get married so you can have sex kind of thing. Well, everyone's just super horny.

Yeah. So you're going to have to struggle with that. There's going to be conversations with the person you date who there's a strong chance he is not waiting to have sex. And then he might be willing and wanting to wait for you and be like i love you and i want to make it work but like you know like yeah um and then it you know again people there's all different reasons why we sometimes rush things um and even it feels right like i'm not like when people move in together like oh no we're moving in together because we love each other and like you're kind of saving 500 bucks yeah you know and you're like you're like, well, yeah, I mean, sure. Yeah, we are saving, but no, we would be doing this anyways. So I think that's something to be mindful of. You just, you seem like you have a really good head on your shoulders and you seem really self-aware and you seem to be willing to

look within, but you're going to have to like face those kinds of challenges because it's inevitable if you want to date someone with more experience, you want to get out there and maybe like dip your toes in waters where it's not just your church community, you're going to find people who aren't of that same ilk and same belief. So, and that's fine, but just be communicative, have conversations. There might be some discouraging moments for you and that's okay. And there might be a moment where you have to say, there might be some compromise that you might have with your faith and beliefs versus like the person you have fallen in love with, who's just like, oh man,

I'm really, you know, like I want to date you and I want to get engaged and I want to have a, it's entirely possible you can meet like a 31 year old guy, right? Who's at the point of his life where he's ready to settle down. He hasn't been married. He wants to, but he also isn't feeling panicked to like rush an engagement or a marriage. And he wants, he's looking, if you were to ask this mysterious 31 year old guy, you know, hey, I want to settle down. Well, yeah.

Do you want to date? Yeah. I'd like to meet someone and date him for a year and a half, two years, and then maybe get engaged and have like a six to 12 month engagement. Well, like the next guy you meet, you're telling him he has to stop having sex for three years potentially,

or two and a half years. If he were to follow his like normal path, you know, as opposed to like, well, I love her and I pretty sure we're perfect, but like she doesn't want, she wants to wait to marry.

And so I guess we'll just get married next week. Yeah. I mean, you know, as opposed to like, well, I love her and I'm pretty sure we're perfect, but she wants to wait to marry, so I guess we'll just get married next week. I mean, you know. But she seems open and like level-headed. Yeah, I mean, again, you seem level-headed. I'm just kind of painting this picture of like, these are, let's just not pretend these aren't thoughts and conversations you might have to have.

And you're gonna just have to figure out that balance between the healthy relationship and moving forward at a pace that's appropriate for the relationship, regardless of sex and beliefs or, you know, doing it because like, I want to wait till I get married. And so that's going to be that. That's just an obvious challenge. I think it's easier when you're younger because you're less experienced. Maybe you are a version at the time. So like, oh, well, I mean, i don't know what i'm missing and now now you've this in this fictitious relationship you're both know what you're missing you've had sex i'm assuming the next time you meet is going to have had sex

and now you guys are going to both have to pause that and that might be a challenge so but minus that the dating aspect go out there have some fun meet people don't worry about sex right now just get to know people be open mind have a variety be open-minded enjoy this time really just not worry about sell down for at least six months just have some fun you deserve it like get to know a bunch of people on your freedom just really enjoy it you know you don't seem stressed about work but it's also a good time to like think about what you want to do i would spend more time thinking about work right now than men. And I would use the men aspect and the dating aspect as like a fun little distraction from the job, but kind of an appetizer to go out there on the occasional date and have

some fun. I wouldn't spend a lot of time like, oh, I'm getting divorced tomorrow and to finalize, I have to go out there and need four dates lined up. Like have some fun, just chill out. It's really going to gonna be it's not as daunting as it might feel and i would think of it as more of a fun uh thing that you haven't been able to do and it's um you seem like you have a really good head on your shoulders and i think that's a great start and just go from there you know this should be fun and it's going to be fun with moments of discouragement so just be prepared for that but that's not a reason to like oh dating sucks it's that's called life you know it makes it interesting yeah yeah yeah and i've had i mean i've had those conversations before like whenever i was

dating when i was younger before i dated the guy that i married um i'm used to having like the hey let's talk about sex talk um before um so yeah and i'm open like and like you said i'm definitely like i know the difference now i think it was probably easier for me to not because i hadn't like you said i didn't know what i was missing um now i do so that's different yep that's great and one thing just a heads up there's a good chance that the next guy you meet who you kind of like and think is really nice he's going to be that the next guy you meet who you kind of like and think is really nice it's going to be probably very different than your ex and you're going to really love them for that yeah and that's exciting but just know that it's almost don't jump don't jump

you know like yeah like i would really just take some time and get to know them because different is good but that that's just it's just that's going to be heightened and you're going to appreciate that a lot more than you otherwise would because you didn't have maybe someone who doesn't you know can get mad without being verbally abusive and toxic and and and things like that so that's nice but like just again i think you really need to take some time and figure out you have really no idea what you want as a person you knew what you wanted as a young woman who liked the idea and this kind of image but as you as a human being and your taste in men and and how you feel emotionally like fulfilled in a relationship

you probably have very little knowledge to what that is and so figure it out take some time yeah i know what i don't want so that's a start but you need to figure out what you do yeah that's a good start but don't dismiss that figuring out what you want is also part of the challenge too but you're young have some fun and uh enjoy the ride thanks for sharing your story katie yeah congratulations on the divorce and uh you know thanks great that you have such a positive outlook thank you yeah all Yeah. All right, thanks. All right, take care. Bye.

She's totally going to get laid in like six months. Less than that probably. You think so? Yeah. I think she should move, start a new life. You know what I mean? Just like start fresh. Sure.

But she also seems like someone who's really, seems to be totally in control. You know, she doesn't, I didn't get a sense that she was panicked. It is nice her faith didn't like get destroyed by that whole situation. She seems to have a really healthy upbringing. I mean, I can't,

I literally can't imagine what it would be like in her situation. We have so many of our callers call in and they describe these situations of feeling stuck. Yes. Right. Yes. Right. Yes. And she had all the reasons.

She overcame that. I mean, and she like this self-awareness. I mean, this is fucked up. And I'm sure like there were moments where she probably put up with it longer than she should have. And she acknowledged that. But yet. The strength. I mean, she worked for her, you know, like her whole life was tied into this.

for her you know like her whole life was tied into this and i think so many uh people out there different stories but have that and probably less so and i think she's i mean in a way an inspiration of the people who like shit man that's kind of the point she's only 28 it was probably very daunting to go through all that and yet here she is tomorrow against her religion here she is like she has the rest it's like i'm almost excited for the rest sunny day in la i don't know where she's calling from but i was like i'm getting divorced tomorrow and i can go out and do whatever the fuck i want right and like i get the impression her her her parents are probably very accepting and loving and not judgmental of her choices to get divorced and it was and even it almost seems like her in-laws are seemingly,

I don't know, like she didn't describe a messy conflict situation. They did fire her. Did they fire her? Yeah, they gave her a severance package. Yeah, but like, maybe she didn't want to work there anymore.

Probably not. You know what I'm saying? I'm watching Righteous Gemstones right now and I'm like, that's all I can think of. All I can think of. I was totally thinking of that. I'm totally watching that. It's on HBObo i was absolutely thinking of that like the mega

church yeah like everyone's a family everyone's all in on it um no but she described a situation where it seemed that she didn't she didn't say i i just got the impression that was kind of like we we let's just everyone we i shouldn't work here right do you want to give me a severance um yeah but yeah I uh I think it's another example of you don't need to feel stuck and then let's all be more like Katie she uh and you know there's going to be ups and downs for her her biggest challenge will be the sex you think yeah I I think you know I had to guess, she's going to go out there and date a little bit. It'll be, there'll probably, she'll get discouraged pretty quickly.

And then she'll probably maybe, my fear for her almost is to get discouraged and then find a guy who has like. Who's just okay. Subconsciously find a guy who has another very similar beliefs who's like willing to wait because that's very stressful on her part. And I don't know,

I'm not sure that that could happen, but I also feel like this is like stage one of her slowly kind of defining her own values and less about like, you know, how she was raised and she seems to have a good head on her shoulders but if she really falls for a guy who's like she's fine she's hot and he's just like i mean i'll wait oh it's going down i'll wait but like hey and he's just like again this more experienced person that she wants and all of a sudden he's doing things that her ex-husband

never knew how to do she's gonna be like just take me now i'm pretty sure and and you know what god bless how's it going good how are you two good good what's your name uh my name is brandon i'm 33 33 33 are you 33 yeah right at the good age guys um brandon are you okay with us showing your face? Yeah, he said earlier. Yeah, he said earlier. Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Brandon. I love your show. I just want to say that. Oh, thank you. Up front and forward. I'm a 10%er technically, but I got to say, I love listening. I love the content. I think it's fascinating.

Great. Especially these problems that people have. It's just interesting. We, uh, we, uh, really appreciate a 10% calling in and get all your buddies to, to listen. Uh, how can we help you, Brandon? Well, uh, originally I emailed Rochelle because you guys always mentioned the 10 percenters calling and I thought, no, well, I've got a really interesting story. Um, uh. I've been doing online dating for the past, I'd say, year, maybe two, and dating some women on and off. And I have a really interesting case I want an opinion on with a particular woman who I've talked to on and off over the past year or two. Anyways, I met her on Tinder back about a year and a half ago. And great intellectual

conversation. We were drawn to each other, I think physically too, obviously, because in online dating, you're looking at people's photos. So that's pretty much all you're basing it on right and uh we talked on and off over the course of uh you know i'd say about two months maybe and i kept you know wanting to meet up with her and you know she said just likes to talk to people online a little longer before meeting up and i'm more of the person that likes to jump in and and just meet somebody right away with online dating so I don't waste time. Well, it ended up, we talked for the, you know, two, three months and never met. And so I thought that was a little odd. So, you know, I pretty much just, you know, kind of blew her off and stopped talking to her. Well well then a couple months go by

and she messages me again once you know it talks to me acts interested and wants to uh meet up for a date and it didn't work out for some reason or another i think i was dating somebody at the time and uh then then another year goes by. And this is more recent. This is about a month ago. And she messaged me again, saying, you know, that she's still interested in meeting up. And, you know, we're talking for the last couple weeks, up until about a week ago. And I kept wanting to meet up with her go on a date and you know obviously she she you know kept keeps blowing me off so I just wanted a third opinion on it because you know besides the obvious maybe I need some third person perspective

here because I think you know obviously she must be interested in some form because why would she message me, you know, multiple times over the course of a year and a half? Yeah. I mean, is this, is this only happened with this particular person or when it comes to your experience on dating apps, is this kind of a unique situation? No, definitely not. I mean, it's happened to me, I'd say, quite a few times. Okay.

I mentioned that email too. In the email, yep, in the email. Yeah, it's happened quite a few times. I'm not quite sure why. And so you seem to have a hard time getting women to have the first date with you. To show up. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

You seem like a handsome enough guy, you know? Handsome enough? He's super handsome. I know. What do you want to be like? You're such a babe, Brandon. Yeah, you're a good looking guy uh i can't sit there and audit your your text messages i mean the truth is i wouldn't i wouldn't stress about it too much i mean what what could you possibly be saying

i mean unless i'm assuming you're not like asking aggressive questions. Even for me, like when I sometimes message people, I can be like, especially if I'm like bored and don't give a shit, I like tell them, this is the most random shit. And it's like sometimes funny or snarky, but I think it is, but I might be doing it in a dry sense of humor. So I'm like, I don't even know how they're gonna read this.

But I sometimes find that that has the the the best responses right so you never really you never really know because even if you were to say a message a young woman be like hey uh uh like your face uh let me know if you're interested in getting drinks sometime i mean even as like awkward as that is or aggressive or direct, someone could argue. Some woman on the other end might be like, oh my God, thankfully a guy who finally just wants to cut some bullshit and wants to meet up. Everyone's different. This particular, you know, I mean, I'm surprised that it seems to be a regular thing. I mean, maybe that's just in your head perspective of.

You don't think people are flaky? I think they are flaky. That's kind of my point. But like, when you say you're having a hard time, would you say nine out of 10 or like half the women are flaky? Or have you only tried three times? I'd say a good 7.5 out of 10, you know? Like, let's say one in every four or three in every four sorry would would do that yeah it's

it's a common thing for me what do you have on your profile what are your picks picks on your profile what what are they yeah that's like general stuff like i've got one of you know me hiking or something in yosemite when i was in yosemite or you and the dog do you you and your mom do you have do you have your phone on you do you have your can you bring up your i mean nothing nothing crazy you know just just random pictures i guess you could say nick wants to see i don't know i want to see him how many of your pictures let me let me just ask you this and you can go look are your pictures uh that they can clearly like you this and you can go look are your pictures uh that they can clearly like right now i'm looking at you and i see like a background it's

clearly i can i know what you look like it's obvious right but i can imagine a picture of you hiking where you're like 10 feet in the background you see the and you see like oh there's a white guy with some facial hair like he seems like maybe cute so your pictures can at least one photo is it clear what you look like because i'll be honest i've seen like my friends accounts or whatever and i've seen other people's accounts and i'll look look through five or six pictures and i'll be like i'll be honest i have really no idea what this person looks like i have a general idea i think they maybe are cute and they have brown hair or bland but I really don't know um I don't know how old this picture is like it there's like it seems like maybe it could be older

and I think at the end of the day to your point like especially with photos uh people want to know what you look like so like I guess what are your is it obvious like even if it's like a photo like a screenshot of this right now would be as good of a i mean it might be a little weird but um a screenshot of this right now no totally hey i will literally show you oh there you go a front-facing selfie yeah that's great totally handsome you seem like a nice guy friendly i don't know man like are you overly sexual at all in your in your talks yeah uh i i would say no i try not to be aggressive when you say you would say no what do you mean i feel like that's a fairly like no no i don't bring that up politicians

hey you know to an extent i mean it depends on the woman you know some women are more aggressive than others and and i i try to let women lead in that department because it's 2019 right i mean okay that seems i know if a guy is overly sexual with me i'm more hesitant to meet up because i'm like what are the expectations here is totally am i gonna have to put out if i'm not you know what i mean you never have to but according to Brandon and I believe them that if you were to like make some sort of sexual joke or reference or maybe imply something you wanted to know about him like you know I'll play along right so yeah I think that's reasonable I think it's risky via text messages, having never met someone and having like no ability to understand their sarcasm, sense of humor or reflection.

I think that's a there's a risk for anyone to do that, man or woman, to like start making jokes and conversations about sex when you don't know. It makes the first meetup have higher stakes. It does. Right. So to Rochelle's point, yes, when it comes to meeting someone up on a dating app you want to like make it easy for everyone involved and i get why women are way more hesitant than men to just meet a stranger right and so yeah i think that's i think men might get more discouraged than women because women you know you say it flaky but like i don't know like it's just like i don't wanna get i don't know this guy could be an aggressiveaky, but like, I don't know, like, it's just like, I don't want to get, I don't know,

this guy could be an aggressive, you know, crazy white guy, I don't know. There's a bunch of crazy white guys. Right? So I think to Rochelle's point, if you want to meet women, I think your only real goal on a dating app and your communication shouldn't be necessarily

get to know them but just make it really comfortable for them yeah whatever they want you're a nice normal person you know just be like sure whatever you know i just i kind of just want to meet you but like sure if you want to talk like just really chill and really easy going because you know the banter over and if they want to like if this particular young woman who's like, well, I want to keep talking, you're like, sure, you keep talking and let her ask questions and answer the questions. But, yeah, I mean, as far as this one unique person, I wouldn't waste much time. I mean, the way you describe it has been over the course of a couple years. You could just, if she messaged you again, just be again just be like hey listen i don't mean to be rude i've clearly had an interest in talking to you but like it doesn't seem like you

want to meet me so i you know i'm not i'm not trying to have a virtual relationship no i think that's fine at this point other women that you start meeting and having conversations with don't you know listen if you want to say i'd love to meet you that's i've i've done that yeah or there's nothing wrong with that but like if they don't you know you might just if there's someone wants to have a conversation just throw it you know just be like okay well when you do like i'm totally down you know to to grab a drink all right what are you suggesting when you meet? Like what kind of activities? I honestly, depending on the person, but nine out of 10 times I say coffee,

because that's like a good mutual thing, right? Maybe they don't drink. Why are you, Rochelle's shaking her head in disgust. I don't, that's fine if you don't want, I like the option. I think coffee is totally fine. Again, we literally were just talking about making it easy. And there's nothing less threatening and easy to get out of. But also easy to back out on because you're like, I don't really want to go sit for coffee. Whereas if you're going out, at least it's something to do at night. I mean, honestly, is that what you're thinking? Because I'm just thinking if you're someone, we seem to be on the same page of like, I just want to meet someone and get to know them yeah and coffee is the the least investment

it could be in a three o'clock in the afternoon because really on that first quote-unquote date on a dating app you just want to what basically verify their face and like their body language impressive i could be wrong it just sounds so boring well it could be boring if you if you walked in on a date rochelle i would at least want to go and you found him hot and you found him charismatic and he was like giving you eye contact and asking you questions would that be boring isn't it all about the date i mean i just time is so valuable and if you're going to spend time you might as well be doing something fun or different or cool i find that so interesting but can it just be more casual i feel like there's i'm saying i could be wrong that's just

not a right or wrong i guarantee you there's plenty of people who agree with you yeah um but i think yeah listen you seem to be doing everything fine don't get discouraged uh don't get discouraged i would maybe go and look and like the sex stuff. Like I would try to cut that down to like a zero. Because like what could you really, you're going to, in a weird way, you're going to be attracting the wrong people if you're like, if weird text exchange is turning people on having never met them.

Like you could potentially be dealing with a catfish. You know, like i don't think most normal even very sexual women are like into like texting sexual questions via a guy they've never met well i mean again if they want to but i think again just if you're looking to meet up and meet someone great yeah yeah if you're like trying to meet someone i mean yeah i mean listen the answer is this all can be very confusing but just do things to make it is easier on the women who might have reluctance and fears and anxiety when rightfully so about meeting strange men yeah we could die right well i'll tell you what i even

have the other end of the spectrum though here's Here's this one. OK, for instance, like a month ago, I had a girl. She was the total opposite. Right. She was in too much of a hurry almost to give me her number. We literally talked for maybe an hour, you know, chatting back and forth. She gives me her number. And one of her very first questions is is like how many kids do you want and stuff like that when we're texting and i'm like whoa this is really aggressive you know but she seemed nice enough so i let it go we talked for about a week and then when i tried to get her to meet up with me again wouldn't meet up with me so i mean yeah a week even a long time i mean i will say like every i'm i'm huge believer with someone you've never met and you don't know each other's personalities every text you sent back and forth is an opportunity for them to for you to fuck up yeah again even even the most smoothest person because you don't know what mood they're in or how to interpret it so like as few texts as possible yeah like everything you send is just an opportunity to fuck up.

And in your case, I think Brandon's on the same page as us because he wants to meet these women. Right. They just want to, they want to give Brandon an opportunity to fuck up. But there's not much you can do there is like, I guess what I'm saying is if someone doesn't want to jump in right away, don't be like, all right, fine. I have to have all these conversations and then want to text them every day. Still play it very chill.

Still put it out there that your ultimate goal is just to meet you in person and get to know you. And whenever they're comfortable and like, you know, coffee or drinks, give them the option. At least maybe they think coffee is stupid. No, listen, I think there's plenty of women who think it's like, eh, really? So let's be like, hey, I don't know. I'm open.

I'd love to meet you. It's a boner killer. Let's just keep it super chill. And you can even joke and be like, I don't even know if you want to spend a whole entire dinner with me, but I'm down. I'm like, I don't know. That's the way I see it. Coffee's like an easy out, yeah if i don't like her she

doesn't like me you know you get stuck in the middle of a dinner it's a little harder to walk away there's a flip side right and the flip side is she might be like oh he just wants to have coffee like he's just trying to screen me he's not really invested i don't really know if i want to bother with the coffee so there's that And that's the struggle about dating apps is you really don't know the other person's frame of mind. You don't know. Like you just might have a string of bad luck where every girl you're connecting with, the last guy they met up with on a dating app

was a fucking dick. You know, that's entirely possible. So like my takeaway, don't get that discouraged. We're talking to you for about 15 minutes here. You seem totally normal. You might not be everyone's cup of tea because no one is. You're a good-looking guy. I mean, you seem like you're just trying to shoot your shot,

and that's all you can do. Are you only on Tinder? Sorry, repeat that? Are you only on Tinder? No, no. I'm on a few different apps, actually. So you're mixing it up, okay. I mean, I was just like, I don't know, I'm not saying one's better than the other,

but like, who knows, maybe just try a different one. Maybe take a break from it for a little bit. What's that? Is there a better one? Have you had better luck on a certain one? I've only used one, and it's like a really pretentious snobby one uh and that's not you know it's not particularly great for love um good for networking it's yeah um but yeah i i think that's the thing like you never really know

and i think it's fine with being on multiple ones and i think it's fine like there's that balance of not counting on it and not obsessing over it. And I think sometimes people will find themselves, they're checking their dating apps three or four times a day and every single one. And maybe sometimes you just need to step away and breathe if you're feeling that anxiety. If dating apps are giving you anxiety, I think it's always good to just step away a little bit and take a time out and maybe delete the apps. Because I think sometimes we don't even realize that if we have this angst about meeting someone dating apps, I think we can sometimes project that, you know, even via text, we can seem a little over anxious, and a little needy, and a little like,

especially like, if a girl won't meet up with you, there might be just your, it's hard to, you know, it's hard to describe, but we definitely will project a little bit and so maybe take a little time away from it but the most part i wouldn't get too discouraged i mean listen i have definitely just because i'm a competitive guy whatever i have i've had indifferent but like women in my life that over the you know like not from a dating app but like i've met them but like it was like a year and a half. We never really got together and we eventually did, but it was like this thing where they, we'd pop in each other's lives.

And ultimately it's kind of like something maybe you're doing for fun. I clearly wouldn't invest time. Who knows? Maybe this good woman's the one for your dreams. She could be a catfish who the hell knows. She certainly has some angst, but like, have you ever text some her and said listen you know i don't want to bug you or you know but like why don't you know like do you really want to get together or why do you keep checking in or are you bored are you in a relationship like what's going on have you kind of playfully called her out because at this point

with her you have nothing to lose i i have in a in a passive way but but what do you mean by passive a little more aggressive about it what do you mean by passive well well it what i would call it a little less aggressive like earlier in our conversation you had mentioned to just bring up like hey you know are you really interested in meeting up or not i wouldn't say i really mentioned it that way i'm more of you know after if you know, are you really interested in meeting up or not? I wouldn't say I really mentioned it that way. I more of, you know, asked her if, you know, she was really interested in meeting up or if she was just more interested in talking

and taking, you know, more time to get to know me. Yeah, I wouldn't. No. Yeah. So like. No, no, no, no. Yeah, so be less passive. Yeah.

I don't like using the word aggressive, but a direct. Direct. Maybe it's better,'t know. So like, no, no, no, no. Yeah. So be less passive. Yeah. I don't like using the word aggressive, but a direct, maybe better, you know, and maybe there's a little tone there. Maybe you seem a little, again, there's a chance you might come across a little needy and,

and, and powerless and powerless and hoping someone will just say yes to going out with you, not on purpose, but as a result, and you might be in your head about that. It's not're doing again like you could just play with her fuck with her in a sense but like oh hey pen pal um you know like when she like reaches out to you and just be like hey like you seem cool but like again just be like i would love to get together but

i don't know how much more i can learn about you over this app and that's fine if you don't want to meet but like you don't seem that interested. Yeah, just ask people. Just tell her you're not interested. You don't seem interested in me. And that's fine. You know, don't be, don't ask, be like, just say, hey, we should get together.

You know, don't like, I think in a dating app, subtleties, you know, hey, would you be willing to get together with me? No. No, no, no, no, no. Always suggest. I think we should get drinks next Wednesday. Yes, ooh, that's's so sexy you know i'd love to get take you out for drinks are you free tuesday or thursday yeah you know give them two options right and so little things like that have

just like you know saying hey i'm free here i'm not when are you free i'm whenever you are no like you're only free two days out of the week and then you give them two options and if someone wants to meet you they will and then don't like and if they want to follow up and just be like hey i you know just be like hey i don't want to be kurt but like i'm just really busy and i'd love to meet you you seem really interesting i'm dying to get to know you more so let me know when you're free you know and eventually they'll get bored and follow up with you and i don't say that on you but like a lot of time i think in dating apps most people finally go on that date because they're kind of bored you know because it's it is hard even guys are just like do i really want to go you know women are worried about getting killed men are worried about spending 60 bucks on drinks you know i mean you know like i you know it's

funny more and more women i talk to like they're you know, it's funny. More and more women I talk to, like, clearly it's a real fear of like, why is this guy so creepy and weird and aggressive and all these things they have to worry about. And we just don't want to like drop a hundred bucks on someone we don't like. Yeah. I think that's a good point. And I think that's why I usually take too much time to talk to women before meeting them, because I feel like that makes them more comfortable. But maybe I'm devoting too much time to talk to women before meeting them, because I feel like that makes them more comfortable, but maybe I'm devoting too much time to that.

Yeah, probably a little bit. You're probably like coming across slightly needy and probably a little bit like hoping they will go out with you, you know, have a small talk and just say, you seem great. I'd love to get to know you. I'd love to talk more about this over drinks. I'm free. Let's go, you know, let's get together next Tuesday.

And they can say great, or they can be like, be oh i'm not free tuesday but how about thursday i mean that's how that conversation would go who's someone who's interested you and they have to say well i don't really want to meet right now you say cool let me know when you're free and then kind of shut it down you know like what more could you like you're only gonna fuck up you really are you're only gonna fuck up in a dating app by having a bunch of conversations. You know, I'm not saying lead with like, let's get drinks. You can, but like quick conversations, you can make a joke, be like, hey, obviously I love to travel. I'm not here to just have sex.

You know, like everyone, everyone says they love to travel on dating apps. I bet I can make you laugh. Give me a shot. Let's have some drinks. I don't know good luck out there keep it chill you're doing fine I would step away from it for maybe a week or two and then get back out there

and just state what you want without being aggressive yes I think I will definitely try that and if you're gonna waste time on these women who keep checking in just know that you're wasting time and i'm not saying don't do that but like i've done that just so like i'm doing this i know it's a waste of my time but i'm i'm bored and i'm on my couch and i'm just fucking around right but like if you're actually investing a lot of your time figuring out how you can finally get this girl to go out

with you then you're a bit you think you're being a little del of your time figuring out how you can finally get this girl to go out with you, then you're a bit, you think you're being a little delusional and we all do that. Right. Like just know that this is like, and who knows, you can hang out with her and she'd be like, Oh,

I don't know why we didn't do this a year and a half ago, but right now she's just wasting your time. So know what, know what's a time waster and know what's kind of like appropriate for appropriate reservations on, on the part of the women. All right. Definitely true.

All right. Well, I will definitely keep that in mind. All right, man. Thanks for calling. Best of luck. I appreciate you listening to all your friends and,

uh, great, good luck. Great luck. Great luck. Great luck. Great luck, Brandon.

All right, buddy. Take care. Thanks so much. You as well yeah i think uh brandon's gonna be just fine he's handsome guy it seems nice i mean the good news is he's gonna get a bunch of women from this podcast i mean if if no other reason for 10 presenters to call in women be hungry every time we have a guy call her. Yep. And there's what?

Rochelle gets how many emails? Emails, DMs. My friend would be perfect for him. My friend would be perfect. Yeah. Because they're nice guys. Guys who listen to this podcast are usually nice guys. They're really nice guys. Probably, maybe, slightly too nice.

Too nice. Oh, that's true. Not too nice, but they're wanting love a little bit too much. And I think that kind of... We've all been there right we all even when we're so we think we're self-aware when we when we we you can project anxiety via text oh yeah you can project neediness yeah um in all forms so i think when you feel that i think it's always a good practice to step away from a little bit. Step away.

Step away from the dating apps. Put it out there what you want and walk away. I mean, how much, again, like if you, there's just, that's the thing. There's just no magic bullet. There's no magic conversation. There's no, there's like the more you talk, the more chances you have to fuck up.

I love that. Like you've never met them. They don't know your sarcasm how can you possibly there's so many very so many unknown variables in a conversation between two two people yeah we've only seen pictures of each other that you know uh i think it's good for men to just put it out there yeah understand that women might have a lot of reservations that you don't have exactly but it's okay to just say well great cool i this is what i'd love to do yeah you're ready let me know yeah i think it's exciting all right how's it going okay

it's going well what's good what okay. So my question is, um, I guess I am, I've been in and out of a relationship and I'm usually, um, I've been known to stay in them for way too long and kind of not maybe be the last person to catch the hints or know when to pack my bags and get out of it. So I'm not really sure, I guess, if there are specific things that you should look for to move on, because it's really confusing at the moment. Tell us about your current relationship. Okay, so I've been dating this, who's quite a bit older. He's 30 now. And, um, we started dating, um, about, or we were dating probably a year and a half ago

and then just broke up in March, but we were back and forth where he would say, you know, maybe this isn't the best relationship for us and then would call me a week later and want to hang out or want to be something and then would decide a week after that that he was done with it. But he's all in when he's in and kind of really all out when he's out.

But was he really all in? Well, he's very attentive. Was he really all in? It seemed like it. And I wouldn't say like he's emotionally unavailable. It's just like he doesn't know when to be emotionally available and then when to like get out of it. I'm just asking that because you said he wasn't ever able to say I love you. Is that correct?

Right. And, you know, that's really hard for a girl, especially like, I don't know. I'm an Enneagram type, too. Is that correct? And I would ask, you know, do you love me? And he would say everything about you. And I would say, well, why can't you say it? And then he would just like not really give me a reason or say like, I don't know. Well, the answer is he doesn't want to say it. Right. I mean, I don't mean to, but like we so often trying to think of reasons why the person worth isn't saying I love you. And when it comes on to it, for reason they don't want to i'm sure there's like extreme examples of like maybe

they just don't know how to express love from their family but like come at the end of the day they're they don't want to you know um and i think you we should pay attention to that and stop trying to figure out reasons and just accept it and then that way it's more freeing for you because then you can go forward being like, I don't have to keep figuring out why they won't say it. I know they don't want to. And then you can decide what you want to do with that relationship, knowing that they don't want to yet. And that's, that's all, that might be okay for some people. Not like, I don't know, I'm not there yet. You know? And for you, you can be like, well, you, if you're not there now, then you're not going to be, you know? Right. So that, and that's what I kept saying. Like,

you know me well enough now we've been through the ups and the downs. You should know by now you should be able to say it if you felt it. And so, but I wasn't ever like upset. I was just like, kind of hurt. Like, you know, I want to, I want to hear that somebody loves me, especially if I'm the one saying it to them first. And so, uh, whenever he doesn't say it, it's not like I'm mad because I don't want to ever force anybody to say something that they're not ready to say yet. But it's like if they're not ever going to be ready, is it time to like let go of that? I mean, what do you think? I probably think it's time to let go. What are you holding on for?

Like, what do you love? Like, I mean, other than comfort, and I'm sure he's attractive, and I'm sure when you're with him and he's giving you all his attention, I'm sure it's fun. I'm sure it's all those things. But a relationship is more than that, right? Like, there's a difference between meeting someone and having great sex or just great chemistry and a lot of fun and having them be a really good time, that's not a relationship. That's a fun person to hang out with, right? That's a fun person to have sex with. A relationship is someone that doesn't constantly make you wonder how they feel about you and if they're going to be present or distant and things

like that. That is not a relationship. And so often we try to call those things relationships and then put a bunch of Band-Aids on them and figure out a bunch of ways to make it work when all the signs are telling us that we're not actually in a relationship. We just have someone in our life who's like sometimes fun and good at sex. Yeah.

I mean, you're not wrong. good at sex. Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. I think, you know, this guy, being that he's 30, I probably put him up on a little bit of a pedestal. That's honest, but like, he's not that much older than you, you know? I mean... Yeah.

You know? I guess. He lived a lifestyle that I was interested in and really brought me to become, I guess, who I am now. And that's great. And so I credit that to him. And that's awesome. And I think that's cool to give him credit for that. There's nothing wrong with saying, like, wow, you really served this purpose in my life.

And maybe that's all it is. And that can happen. We meet people who are older. It might be because they're older. It might be because they come from a different life or all of the above and they will open up doors for us and give us access and experience. Those are all great things. There's nothing wrong with that. But as far as am I in a relationship with this person, that's a different conversation to have with yourself and try not to confuse the two. We often do that. We've talked about this in a past relationship. You're going to date an older person and especially women dating an older man. You kind of have to act as if in terms of to not be, you can admit to yourself it's a little

intimidating, but like you need to know how to push back appropriately. And I don't mean push back by like finding things to complain about or, but just you really got to trust your gut when you're, if you're younger and you're dating someone older and you feel intimidated, you got to trust your gut. If it feels wrong, regardless, if maybe later you might have perspective and realize, oh, I was young and I was kind of like, I shouldn't have been mad. Fine. But be mad now, just trust your gut. You're better off trusting your gut and learning how to trust your

gut than doubting yourself, even if like your opinion might change later in life. But that's part of figuring that out. Yeah. What's the lifestyle you said that you found attractive? attractive um not so much i guess like he him he's just all say everything about him not really his lifestyle i mean he's we worked in the restaurant industry he was my trainer and so maybe it was just that he was older and he was like the guy that everybody wanted can i so i would can i guess i kind of cleaned on to that and I was like, huh? Can I guess? Guess what? What she found appealing in that?

Is that... Please. Well, when you're old, like if you meet, when you're younger and you meet an older person, and again, with perspective, I think he, less things bothered him. He was probably seemed more open-minded about certain things than you

even were. He maybe even described situations be like, you know what, don't sweat that. And you're like, you know what, I shouldn't sweat that. That's cool and super chill. And he was just like, why don't you try this? You're like, oh, is that cool? And like, you're like, yeah. And he explained why something might be cool that you thought wasn't cool and because you just didn't know. And that's all very exciting it's easy to get someone else's personality instead of struggling to develop your own i did that but again that kind of comes with sometimes dating some like you meet older people they they give you they help get you perspective and perspective is attractive and sexy and be like

oh wow so much of we react to things when we're younger it's like i, I don't know. I was told this is wrong and I don't know. And then everyone's like, wait, this is not, this is cool. And you feel liberated. And those are all fun feelings to feel. And just don't give them all that much credit. If it wasn't going to be him, it was going to be someone else. I bet he's really not that great. He's probably just some fucking trainer at a restaurant.

He's a fun boy restaurant guy. He's probably just some fucking trainer at a restaurant. He's a fun boy restaurant guy. He's just Yeah, he's got his playbook. His own age is like, okay, buddy. He's Ryan Reynolds from the movie Waiting. If you haven't seen that movie, go see it. I'm sure

he's great. I'm not trying to shit on him. If it wasn't him, it would be somebody else. I did grow up in a small like, a small West Texas town. Okay. Like, very sheltered. How did you know that, Nick? Nick called it. I was just surprised that Nick called it so well.

That's insane. What did he call? That he, okay, keep going. Keep going. I interrupted you. Okay, so, no, you're fine. I was just, I'm really religious i still am but i grew up under these like rules and restrictions of like things to do and so like when i met him it

was like a whole new world of like possibilities and you know opportunities and stuff and he probably made you feel less judged and in a weird kind of fucked up way because he was older he's your equal but also like a not like a parental but you know older you admired him for it a spirit guy yeah and your parents are telling you one thing's wrong and he's being like well it's not really yeah um and that's normal and fine yeah going back to this relationship when you start like i mean think back listen and listen to yourself talk when you listen to this podcast when it comes out and like imagine it not being you. Imagine it being some other girl calling in and what you would say to her. And here you are telling the story about like we dated and then he left and I basically waited around.

And when he came back, I was there with open arms. And like you'd be like, girl, like what? You know, don't don't do that like what is he doing that's so special that's worth like being available whenever he wants you know um he's just a fucking guy who's a trainer at a restaurant i mean i went through this same thing when i was coming out of my super sheltered background it was a boyfriend who kind of sherpa'd me into the new life yeah and then you i struggled so much but i had to realize i didn't need him to live this new life i could do it on

my own but i had some my mind had associated him with that because you yeah i get it you never done that before but like just know that he served a purpose it could be anyone and take some of that power back by just being like hey you were fun thank you almost like you used them in a way you know like yeah like that you've listen i uh you've you know i've uh i've graduated from your school of of whatever it is you know it was fun thank you um i'm good now i I'm going to find someone else. Like, you know. Get your cap and gown and get out of there. When you graduate third grade, you don't keep going back to third grade.

You move on to fourth grade. You know, like how much can this guy really be training now? But it's that simple, really, right? You're just, it's basically like you graduated third grade, but then like in and when you're younger like oh you graduated third grade where do i go oh yeah everyone someone's like oh you go to fourth grade you know you tell everyone someone tells you where to go and now you're like well okay graduated what do i do now well i don't know i guess i'll just go back to the class in school and do the same thing over again yeah you know that's kind of what you're doing so just know that like there's plenty of other uh 30 year old restaurant fuck boys who will like teach you exciting things about life um there is no yeah there's no dearth of men like that he does yeah there's like a limitless pond

yes a fun boy yeah i'm not going to shit on them like again they're probably cool and fun and he's he's still relatively young and you know i don't he yeah he he doesn't love you because he's waiting for the next 23 year old girl he has to train you know and he's probably having he's definitely having sex with other people uh without question he's it he is i think he's not yeah no you're wrong maybe not while you're hanging out but from the time you met until now he has definitely slept with other people otherwise sorry in a relationship sorry yeah no it's okay i mean hard truth you know yeah it's fine i need to hear it don't be naive and that'll be fine but also keep in mind there's like he there's a reason why he hasn't completely settled down with you and that's because he wants that freedom to do these things you know people are just like well we're together

we're not together but we're committed it's just like no no like there is a reason why people don't say i only want to be with you and i want to give that all up. You know, some people do it and then cheat and they're assholes. But like, you know, and at this point, that's kind of on you. Don't try to, he doesn't, he's been pretty. He wants to keep training. Fairly indirectly, he's been pretty upfront with what he doesn't want. And that is a relationship with you or to say he loves you. And you have to accept that and not try to figure out what's the other like Freudian

reason why he can't just say it. Because he's been somehow... He doesn't want to say it to you. And then accept that and move on. Stop putting him on a pedestal just because he's the first older guy you've dated. And he's got that slight kind of power over you. There'll be plenty of older guys you're going to date. And it's true. You're young and 23.

And it's the first time you did it. And it feels weird. I guarantee you the first time you did it it feels weird i guarantee you next time you do it won't be weird for you and then maybe that guy ends up being 35 or 36 and then maybe you meet a 28 year old and like you'll just be more variety and age will as you get older age will be less of a number because like you'll just become you're just going to be an adult dating other adults and as long as we've talked about this before as long as you guys are in the both kind of same place in your life where

you kind of want to settle down and have kids if that's what you want, then it doesn't really matter. When you meet a guy who has kids and is divorced, that conversation might be different and might not. And that's all that really matters there. So you're wasting

a lot of time right now figuring out a guy who's kind of been fairly up front with you what he doesn't want. Yeah, that's very true. And you're a total babe. You're a total babe. You got lots of options. Yeah, you're super hot. You're going to be totally fine.

Thank you. Thanks. She doesn't like compliments. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for, thank you so much.

And thank y'all for the advice. I mean, yeah, it's just, it's good to hear the constructive, because I have a lot of people on my corner that are like, yeah, you should probably stop or it's time to move on.

But it's like when you're saying, you know, he is doing this. Yes. He's probably speaking with other people. He's not in it for, for you and, you know, to settle this yes with other people he's not in it for no for you and you know to settle down your girlfriends are sweet but they don't want to tell you that he he's not

gonna love you harder for them to say they should i don't know it's like it's not it's not harsh criticism it's just it's just a reality and that's okay yeah you guys still work at the same restaurant? I don't work there anymore. Great. Good. Yeah. It's just an excuse to do things when we get bored. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Move on. Cut it off. I think just say no. Right? And even when you get bored, just cut them off. It's going to be a revolving circle. If he wanted to date you, great.

And if he comes back and professes his love, I would still proceed with caution because that might be a reaction to not having you. Chances are, this is not your guy. I'm assuming that you imagined a relationship that started off with someone knowing that they wanted to be with you. And don't forget that. Stop making stop making excuses for him that's so sweet i like everybody keeps telling me that yeah well it's on you now i guess i should probably listen it's on you don't wear that i don't respect myself shirt don't do it yeah yes uh i was thinking about that i was like what are they gonna tell me they're probably gonna tell me thinking about that. I was like, what are they going to tell me? They're probably going to tell me something about that. I think you're doing fine.

These are little nuances of figuring it out and sometimes you just have to talk through it and hear it. Plenty of fuckboy waiters who are 30 who love to be trainers. Is he still a trainer? Yes. Not to shit on the, you know, but is this like, in terms of ambition, what would you describe him as in terms of like his? He's not sure what he wants.

Okay. And so I don't know that he's super ambitious. Yeah, yeah. A 30-year-old trainer who doesn't know what they want who's hot who's hot is not very ambitious if it was a 30 year old trainer who had a bunch of plans and this was a means to an end great but this is a guy who's just kind of like i make enough money to buy bar buy drinks at a bar and fuck girls and like have a have a decent apartment a decent apartment, like does he have a roommate? Yes.

Yeah. We know this guy. Yeah. Right? He's just a guy. We know this guy. Yeah. And you're the hot 23-year-old he's currently having sex with sometimes

amongst three others. Oh God. Yeah. Life is hard. Maybe so. This is hard. No, this is not hard. This is a great learning experience.

Like you said, be thankful of the things he did bring value to your life. This is nothing you need to regret. This is nothing, but you need to stop. Now you need to stop doing, because at this point now it's just creating confusion and stress and making you question your own self-worth. And that's when you need to end it. Yeah. All right. Thanks for calling in. Time to graduate. All right. Graduate to fourth grade. Absolutely. Thanks, guys. Take care. Thank y'all. Bye. All right. Bye-bye. end it yeah all right thanks for calling in to graduate all right yeah absolutely guys take care thank y'all bye bye bye it's so funny because so i do a lot of improv and this happens in the

improv world all the time these improv coaches are in their 30s same situation and they just fresh off the boat they take yeah they turn these 23 yearold women out and they're always like, why won't he commit to me? And it's like, he's not. He has another class coming after you graduate. You're going to like 102. He's focused on 101. Yeah. And anyone his own age is like this loser.

And anyone younger is like, wow, he's so funny. And it's probably a little bit of both. Some of them probably call him this loser because they hate him and they know younger it's like wow he's so funny and it's probably a little bit of both some of them probably call him this loser because they hate him and they know what he's up to yeah they would probably fuck him if he wanted you know yeah maybe um and also like yeah there's a little there's a little bit of both right not to you know and in some parts of the world 30 year old being a 30 year old guy still pretty young and ambitious, or pretty young. And then sometimes, but a guy should at least be ambitious. He doesn't have to have it figured out.

But if he's just kind of like, yeah, I'm just teaching class. Right, yeah. It's like a... Well, they get, it's, yeah, it's too easy for them to... Well, that's the thing. I think, I mean, I've waited tables when I was younger in college, but I had a brother,

the thing about waiting tables in the service industry, it's, it's great money. And when you're younger, it's, it's probably the best way to make the most money. Yeah. Right.

And the tough part is there's always this part in your mid twenties, if you're like a server, a bartender or a bottle service girl, whatever of leaving it and giving up that income because you like want to get away from it and then focus on your career. Sometimes people do both, but sometimes you kind of have to, and there's always that group of people

who never really leave, right? They like actually quit, like they went to college and they got a degree and maybe they tried a job, but there was a part where like, well, I make more money doing this. So they stuck with it. And the next thing you know, they're 30

and they're like, do they want to keep bartending or maybe the 35? And it's just like, and they kind of get stuck in this very repetitive, redundant life of just being the party boy. Yeah. There are great careers in the food service. Totally.

That's not what we're saying. It's just a specific type of person. There's a specific type of like, kind of like, they're not like getting into management and like, I mean, how long can you split tips for? You of person. There's a specific type of like, kind of like, they're not like getting into management. Right. I mean, how long can you split tips for? You know, like it's an absolutely great job.

I mean, if you're in college and you can get a bartender serving job and like if it's a nice second job, your first job out of college, maybe you're not making the money you wanted to make. What, you know, if you're single and you have a full-time job, get a second job.

Moonlight as a bartender, you make a,-time job, get a second job. Moonlight is a bartender. You save that money. That's fucking great. And if you're a young woman in these types of industries, you've got to be on high fuckboy alert at all times. Yes. Do not let your guard down. It is definitely like a swamp filled with fuckboys.

You really have to know where the landmines are. Get those antennas up. It's fun, but filled with fuckboys you really you really have to know where the landmines are get those antennas up it's uh it's fun but uh filled with fuckboys how's it going good how are you good what's your name katie katie how old are you uh 23 katie 23 how can we help you, Katie? So my friend is dating a loser, an utter loser. Okay. Tell us how you really feel, Katie. Okay. Your friend is dating a loser. Okay.

Tell us more. They've been dating him for three years now. Two years? Three years. Three years. Okay. And he's just so disrespectful to me to her to all my friends and i don't know how to handle him anymore well let's focus on how he treats her i mean i'm not

saying him being disrespectful to you the other friends is okay but she might see things differently but specifically what is, what is he doing that you find to be disrespectful to her? He's just super controlling to her. He requests that you tell him what she's going to wear to go out at night or if you'll offer to go out at all. A couple years ago, we went to a concert

and he was pissed because it was just the two of us who went and there were guys there that could look at her. That's not cool. Have you had, I mean, I'm assuming at some point you've talked to her about this. Does she,

is she aware that everyone hates him? I think so. I mean, every time they get in, I remind her that he's not a good person. What does she say? But I love him. Yeah. yeah i mean it's tough i mean so you correct me if i'm wrong you haven't actually talked to her about this you've made

comments and you've addressed it when she he's upset but have you really sat her down and had a heart-to-heart with her no i don't think it'd be taken well i think she'd get defensive that's probably true but you know sometimes in these situations you have to be willing to go there and you kind of have to be willing to uh sometimes being a friend is running the risk of of that friend being really mad at you and temporarily maybe cutting you out you know um you know because right now it sounds like there's just a lot of like redundancy and groundhog's day of the same thing happening over and over like she's dating him he acts up she gets mad they fight you guys all kind of talk shit she says but i love him and then nothing really and it's just

like you know it's just like a you know it's just like over and over and over and over and over and over again right so um she is for whatever reason she feels trapped and stuck she she thinks she loves him most life because she doesn't know the difference i'm assuming this is probably her first serious relationship oh yeah yeah so she just doesn't know the difference she is you know what she is equating to love is the comfort and everything they've done before all the moments they shared all the experiences the first person she said she loved maybe is it the first did she lose a virginia this guy no she didn't okay so um but yeah she clearly has him on a pedestal and then the

controlling aspect probably like doubles doubt is like you know it's kind of fucked up but it makes her feel almost like a tat like there's probably some attachment this style going on there that you know i mean i don't know what it is but i'm guessing based off what we've learned um so i guess my point is is that if you really feel this way if you're really passionate about this and you really feel like you have a dear friend that's running the risk of ending up with the wrong guy, you might need to really take a stand. Intervention? Yeah. I mean, sure. In a way, yes. And I guess sometimes, well, they're going to be mad at me isn't necessarily an excuse not to do something. That's good you know I mean

we we kind of joke right we had this last caller and you know she's asking me questions she's like you know my friends tell me I shouldn't be with him but they don't really say it like the way you do and it's because the truth is when people call in I don't really care I mean I'm just trying to give you advice you can be mad at me and I probably will never talk to you again and your friends are like they don't want to hurt your feelings and they still don't want to be awkward like a half hour from now when you guys go to the movies and be like,

I just told you some shit, you know? And you as a, you know, and sometimes, I always been this way, but sometimes people confuse friendship, you know,

like friendship is not telling people, it's real friendship. Like acquaintances, yeah, tell people what they want to hear and say nice things and don't rub people the wrong way. But hopefully people have, hopefully everyone has some type of friends in your life. And maybe it's only a few. And maybe

that friend is also a brother or sister or mom or a dad that can really just tell you what it is. And they can be honest with you. And sometimes you can, you'll still get mad and you'll be hurt, but you, you know, they come correct they come correct and so um the best way to do that might be like i wouldn't like bombard them and have like a whole intervention of a bunch of people but sit down with them maybe it's one other ally so it's not just you on an island so i'm going to kind of validate the behavior that you guys are seeing and just be honest with him i mean you know and if it's so bad that he is treating you this way you can just say listen i support you and i love you but i don't want to be around him because he's offensive

to me yeah he's abusive he's verbally abusive to us and he doesn't treat us respect she said he smoked in her house yeah he does you asked him not to and he said i don't care pretty much yeah yeah okay so that's not that's okay so there you go like i'm glad he did that because that's ammunition for you in a sense like you can say to her listen fine if you want to date him i don't want him in my life he's toxic he's doing all these things and then make her choose like that's a boundary and she's gonna probably she's gonna choose him at first and you're probably not saying something because you're probably afraid that's what she's going to do and i'm gonna tell you right now that's what is that's what she's going to do yeah but eventually she she might it's one of those things she might have

to hit rock bottom she might have to lose her friends and look back and be like i'm i've lost all my good friends so like always let her know that you'll be there for her you don't leave her you say i'll always be there for you but what i'm not okay with is having him being your life i'm not okay with x y or z i'm not okay with him disrespecting us. He's not welcomed at my place anymore. You are. And just start making it hard for her. Always shower her with love and always shower her with, again, continue to let her know what she deserves. Don't criticize her. Don't tell her she's, you know, it's a nuance of, you don't want to criticize them by saying like, don't make them feel dumb for dating the wrong person.

Don't make them feel dumb for loving the person they think they love. You know, try not to be condescending. Just always let them know what they deserve and always let her know that you'll be there for her. But also let her know that he is not welcome and you're never going to ever hang out with them as a couple again.

So you have some power there. So pull some punches and not pull some punches, but like insert that power and, and use some of those tools and resources, just knowing that you have to sack, you have to give up a little bit to get some, what you, what is not going to happen is you're not going to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result. Right. Because that's, that never happens. So like kind of complaining and kind of bitching about him from time to time but still like letting him come over and hang out with him and putting up with his bullshit isn't going to change anything i like that that's actually a way different way

to think about it i like that idea yeah um let's shower her with love always let her know you'll be there for her let her know you want her in her life, but like make her decide. And at first she's going to decide him. And listen, the truth is, if she completely cuts you out and you're never friends with this person again and she marries him and have kids, well then that's what she chose.

And that's going to be her journey. But that's the only way this is going to get better. And my guess is what will probably happen is you'll have this conversation, you'll do these things, she'll be mad at you, she'll go to him, and she'll kind of push you away and cut you out. Hopefully, you have some other friends who feel the same way and are willing to do this together, because that will be unfortunate if you're willing to do this and everyone else is kind of a wuss and they don't i think you're gonna need a band together and say we love you but we don't love him and we're not trying to be we're we're concerned for you and we want to be there

for you and but also we don't like being disrespected you know um and we're not okay with that so we're not going to continue uh uh like being okay with this behavior and like if and eventually I think she'll push you guys away yeah she'll lean to him yeah but then something will happen and then she will come back that might be like six months from now but she'll come back and when she does don't say I told you so don't like throw it in her face just give her a hug and say we're so glad that we have you and you deserve so much more and we can't wait for you to find a guy that you deserve and that might not and that's not and that might not be tomorrow that might be you know sometime it's going to be a process so prodigal friend returns home yeah you know she's she's just very stuck and she just doesn't know the difference and you know when people could bitch about our

their significant other they want to defend them because they also want to defend their own choices right so right now she has to accept that she got herself in a situation that's hard for people to people could bitch about their significant other. They want to defend them because they also want to defend their own choices. Right? So right now she has to accept that she got herself in a situation that's hard for people to do. Yeah. So, yeah. But you have,

step one is being okay with her being mad at you. Okay. Love that. Thank you. And it's okay to have boundaries on how he treats you. You can't allow him to treat you like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Being a good friend is not putting up with the shitty boyfriend. That's not being a good friend. That's not in the handbook. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to bite my tongue long enough, I think. Yeah. You don't have to bite your tongue, you know?

You know, life's about choices and she has to make hers, but you have to make her make you know um you know life's about choices and she has to make hers but you have to make her make a choice you know and it sounds like you are doing it for the right reasons and you have the right intentions and this is not some sort of like weird you know what i'm saying like it could be like other variables like who knows but you seem like you just care about her and he sounds like he's kind of a bad dude and um she's not the first person who's been stuck in a relationship like this so you just have to help her see the light and the only way to do that is make her change up what you're doing because right now it's just groundhog day sounds good thank you all right well best of luck. You're going to be great. Yeah. But do that. And I think something's going to happen.

Yes. Okay. It's time. Talk to your, talk to, find an ally or two. And then. Yeah, I think I got. And shower her with love, even when she pushes you away. Okay.

But stay on your ground. You can do both at the same time. All right. Take care. Thanks at the same time. All right. Take care. Thanks a lot. Thanks for calling in. I had an intervention with my friend. All of us girlfriends were like,

your boyfriend, this relationship is awful. You need to get out of it. Like we did an intervention style and she got so mad at us. Of course. And now, you know, we're older. She's like, oh oh you guys were totally right like thank you for doing that yeah but it didn't help but we tried what do you mean it

didn't help like she didn't break up with him because of us it she ended up yeah but i would argue but they ended up breaking up yeah well she went to israel on birthright and married an israeli soldier that was a different guy. Yeah, but while she was still dating the other guy. Like she, you know. Yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is without knowing all the details, I think what you guys did was, did have an impact.

Maybe. It didn't feel like in the moment. Yeah. But like, that's the thing is like, when you do that, there's so many, I think thoughts and feelings goes into someone's mind. Right. You're gonna, it's impossible not to get defensive. You have chosen this person you do that there's so many i think thoughts and feelings goes into someone's mind right you're

gonna it's impossible not to get defensive you have chosen this person and everyone else in your life that you value their thoughts and opinions is basically it almost feels like they're all calling you stupid you know it's impossible not to get defensive yeah yeah so in the moment but in the back of her mind she had probably felt that she probably knew it wasn't right. And then, and while it doesn't feel like they're reacting that way, I think they're all, there's that appreciation. That's not, it doesn't, the reaction. So for her to go to Israel and marry some, it probably was, you know, and she probably felt stuck and that was her way of doing it. I mean, you know, I talk about my first relationship, you know, and we broke up. It was my first i mean you know do it for my i talk about my first relationship

you know and we broke up it was my first love and you know off and on and i kind of was stuck i didn't know how to like love anyone else i didn't know how to get over her we she kept breaking up with me and i would break up with her i just i didn't know i literally didn't know how to move on because he was all i had and i I had to meet someone else to do it. And sometimes you just need a, if when you feel stuck and you don't know how to love anything or anyone else, you sometimes need a catalyst.

And that catalyst often isn't necessarily healthy. Don't marry that person. I mean, I ended up getting engaged to that person and it didn't work out. But like, we do that. We need to like, a kick in the pants. But I do think you probably helped your friend more than you realize.

And you probably got in her head and you probably gave her the confidence that when she was ready down the line to make that decision because you all validated what she eventually realized. And I think that's kind of what you have to do with some of those situations. Expecting the immediate return is not a reason not to do something,

and it's not, I don't think, I don't think it's a reason to feel like you're doing something wrong. Oh, we shouldn't have done that. When you did that, did you guys? We kind of did. We were like, oh, that was a bad call. Yeah, right?

And I don't think it was, but I think you have to go in knowing she's gonna hate us, she's gonna be pissed, she's gonna get mad. It's like, like I still remember us where we were standing in the, in the apartment kitchen. It was very,

yeah, it was like a moment in the history of that happening. Do you ever think there's been a time where someone's been like, that's a really, wow, you guys are right. You guys are right. Thank you for the feedback.

Should we just call them now? Break up with them? Like, was that ever happened? Literally ever? Yeah. Yeah. And Like, has that ever happened? Literally, ever? Yeah. Yeah.

And again, I think it comes down to like, well, it's the people, they feel judged as a person. Yeah. And even though you're not trying to, there's just no reason not to, there's no way not to,

to do that. Yeah. I love this episode. This was great. Another fun one. Yeah. Not crazy stories, but just relatable relatable

yes fun we had a 10 i have an exciting uh update already from our 10 percenter bring it on a lot of people have been writing and wanting updates so brandon emailed me he said tell nick his advice worked when i got off the call i immediately called my pen pal and was straight up and she said she wants to go out thursday pure genius what really yeah great just be up front people yeah there you go i i think wow i'm just wow nick i'm just so great safe in lives oh mike's falling apart um yeah i mean dating apps state what you want and then move on and move on. And move on. And if you get rejected, like brush it off because it happens in dating apps all the time. It's literally not about you. It's not.

You have no idea what's going on in their world. Yes. Like a million things. It could be other people. It could be other dating apps. It could just be like, they just broke up with their boyfriend. So they panicked and jumped on a dating app. And they're not ready.

And they're totally not ready. You never really know. And it's not even, yeah, it's not even rejection really. It's just, they're just not ready to go on a date with anyone. Yeah. So put it out there. Yeah. Move forward. Well, good, good job, Brandon.

Good job, Brandon. That is, that is some ROI. Return on your investment. Some quick ROI. You're looking up for those 10 percenters, you know? Yeah. Well, another great episode. As those 10 percenters, you know? Yeah. Well, another great episode. As Rochelle said,

we got some feedback. It's been a lot of fun. I hope you guys have a great rest of your day, especially if it's Monday and you're listening. As always, once again, we appreciate you telling your friends about us, sharing it on your Instagram,

giving us five star reviews. Yeah, I think that's it. As always, we love you guys. Thanks so much. Bye-bye.