The Viall Files - E530 Ask Nick - F*cking My Friend’s Situationship

Starting point is 00:00:00 . What's going on everybody? Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick edition, joined by Allie and Amanda and our show dog Kiki. Yeah, do you wanna introduce Kiki? Because I feel like some people who watch the videos don't know who she is. It's your canine.

Starting point is 00:00:34 This is Kiki. What was the question that was phrased? Who claims this dog? I claim the dog, I claim her. Yeah, yeah, she's the office dog. Yeah. Well behaved. I think she's doing well. Yeah, she just-

Starting point is 00:00:46 If anything, I've been seeing a couple comments of people asking if she's okay because she really doesn't move that much. She's a sleeper. She's a sleeper. She's mellow. She's well trained. She's an old rescue dog. She was rescued when she was old.

Starting point is 00:00:57 She's even older now. She barks only at men. Yep. But she likes you two, so that's good. Yeah, not all men. She doesn't bark at you. She was excited to see you this morning. Dogs love me.

Starting point is 00:01:09 Somewhat shocking. Truly love my Jeff. But like, I don't have the same affinity for all dogs. But they all love me. Love it. I don't. I feel like sometimes that's what happens. It's the people who don't love dogs.

Starting point is 00:01:23 Yeah, that they're then obsessed with. Yeah. It's so fucking embarrassing when you're at a party and someone has a house cat and you like try to win the cat over and then it like doesn't. Like I just I feel like that has happened to me a few times. A lot of times I feel like I do it successfully and it's like all about like the dance of like with dogs. It's pretty simple.

Starting point is 00:01:40 It's like you're like, hey, Bobby. And then they get all excited. There's a certain level of hubris one requires to try to win over a cat. It's like testing the waters, though. Just be like, hey. In some ways, I mean that as a compliment. You're definitely someone who- I don't give up on anyone.

Starting point is 00:01:57 Not a cat. Yeah, but when you were a kid, I feel like you were definitely- Is this correct when I would say, if someone says this can't be done or you can't do it you were like trying like i bet i can probably you love a good challenge yeah slightly defiant i don't know i just i'm deeply fearful of authority and i don't want anyone i don't want to get in trouble and i don't want people to be mad at me what's that through the cats well you said do you like would you be like are you defiant no i don't mean defiant like yeah i don't mean like uh yeah i don't like a ditching school type of way i don't mean like a rule breaker i mean more like uh yeah proving

Starting point is 00:02:39 people wrong yeah like i don't think you can do it you rise to the challenge yeah that's a better way of saying it yeah i i feel like i have the boston vengeful energy or it's like the the comeback i just never i've never known someone to be like i just like winning over cats they're so sweet i also it's such a great excuse to like like if you're like oh i i've been in this talking circle for too long and i'm not connecting with people and i want to be not a part of it politely then you can be like oh there's a cat okay yeah pets or babies or small children like i realized that was the issue at my birthday party is all of a sudden i was like i haven't spoken to a single adult in a very long time because there's

Starting point is 00:03:19 a three-year-old here who's really captivating me oops Oops. It gives you a little outlet. And you gotta check on the animals at a party because it's overwhelming. True. True, but I feel like cats are just really self-sufficient. Is it true that you can just leave cats? Like if you have a cat and you go on a weekend trip, can you just leave it?

Starting point is 00:03:36 Was that just an earthquake? I felt a rattle. Did you feel a rattle or did you feel rattled? I wonder. Did you rattle or were you rattled? Could that be like a pre to a bigger one? Check Twitter.

Starting point is 00:03:50 Is anyone on Twitter tweeting about earthquakes? No. Someone said two minutes ago the weather has been giving earthquake vibes these last couple days so maybe they predicted it?

Starting point is 00:04:01 The first earthquake Oh no, that's Alaska. Sorry. We don't live there the first earthquake i ever experienced in la it was while i was at a sound bath for the first time wow so i'm like lying down they're playing the bowls and then it started and i was like oh my god this is a spiritual overload mine was in the bachelor mansion andy season wild and then the first weekend after i bought my house there was was an earthquake. Huh. Hmm.

Starting point is 00:04:25 At like 10 o'clock at night. Did anything bad happen? No. Just a little bit of a rattle. I'm almost certain that was an earthquake. I think we wouldn't have felt it because we're in rolly chairs. I don't know. Anyway. We're just the ladies. I just, like,

Starting point is 00:04:41 I mean, not that I'm rooting for earthquakes, but it would have been kind of fascinating to have one on while we're recording. I mean, the sky did look kind of eerie when I was letting Kiki out. Does the sky have anything to do with earthquakes? Yeah. Is there earthquake weather? I was trained to know what tornadoes are like, not earthquakes. Anyway, if you're dating someone, listen to their friends, especially early on.

Starting point is 00:05:02 I have some friends. I have a friend and an acquaintance who recently started hanging out or not, you know, somewhat recently. And there was a lot of a mutual excitement between these two people. One of the people, the acquaintance came up to me and was like, tell me about your friend. And I was like friend wonderful person i was like i'll put in a good word for you but i think you should go say hello on your own you know uh and then they did and and then that and then my friend was like really excited and they were you know very rarely do you get that like mutual excitement so it was really kind of like cool where it's like, Oh, these two people are, I've been vibing each other from afar.

Starting point is 00:05:47 And so they went on a date and hang out. And at first the acquaintance was really charming. And I said to Natalie, this is, this, this is a definition. If they wanted to, they would,

Starting point is 00:05:59 you know, this, you know, really putting themselves out there. And, uh, they had a nice couple of dates. I love the follow-up.

Starting point is 00:06:05 It was definitely, I like you energy right off the bat. And honestly, didn't mind it. I didn't mind the enthusiasm, but it was teetering on too much. And I don't really have a problem with putting it out there. I don't like the game playing and things like that but when that person's friends says to you just maybe slow down a little bit you should you should listen to their friend he like kidnapped her and took her to disney oh so and this is so he in this scenario he really likes her he's super into her or she... Well, and he was also coming off of kind of an ugly breakup. And so I had my concerns about, is this a little overcompensating?

Starting point is 00:06:52 Things like that. But who knows? It wasn't necessary for me to say. I definitely got the vibe that he wasn't totally over it. But that's, you know, sometimes you can get over someone while also pursuing someone else. You don't have to be totally like,

Starting point is 00:07:05 you know, net neutral and indifferent about a relationship to start dating someone. But when you start ignoring the advice of their friends, especially at the pace in which you're going, not like it just, it doubles the weirdness. So you're talking about not only your friends, but the friends of the person you you've started seeing or your friend yeah so he he went to her friends and was like how's it going like what could i do you know like really like her and there's like just take it this slow down just a bad bit just just a little bit and the response he asked for feedback and then he asked for feedback got feedback and ignored the feedback and kind of was like no i know what i'm doing and i was like i don't know if you do you know and again it's all it all

Starting point is 00:07:49 depends on the situation like she moves a little bit of a slower pace you know and she wasn't asking for like you know don't talk to me for a week but it was it was just a lot all at once you know where you know uh phone calls to mom and things like that. He put her in a group chat with his mom after like the third date. Oh my God. Sir. What did he say in that group chat?

Starting point is 00:08:16 And then- What could you need that group chat for? But then the mom, but then the mom like text her like almost like talking crap about her son, but like in a playful way. But like, let's be friends. Like she was. Like we're bonding. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:30 Like, and it was just like, I don't know. It was a bummer for me because I really like this person. And honestly, I think maybe he's not being honest with himself about where his heart is regarding the past relationship. That's my sense of it all. about where his heart is regarding the past relationship. That's my sense of it all. But I was just really disappointed when I found out that he was getting advice. Because at first I was like, well, you know,

Starting point is 00:08:51 maybe he's just, you know, projecting a little bit, maybe he's just in his feels. And then I only found out that like, no, he literally asked some of her friends about like, how's it going? Can I get any notes? And they just said, yeah, it's fine. It's going great, but just slow it down a little bit. Like take it easy. Get to know her. Dating's

Starting point is 00:09:09 hard enough. It's complicated. People are confusing. But when, when you get like the cliff notes, when you get like the answers to the test, just read, read the notes. You know, it's like, it's like a teacher saying, you know, remember in high school where every once in a while, a teacher would be like, yeah, you can use your notes on the test. Yeah, open note test.

Starting point is 00:09:30 Open note test. And I'm like, great. And that would be like having an open edit test and like deciding to like show off. And being like, all these answers are wrong, even though I wrote them down in lecture. Or just be like, you know what? I can remember them.

Starting point is 00:09:42 I'm smarter than everyone. And everyone's just like has their books open and they just like stubbornly close it. Like, what is that? You know? It's also interesting to think about like to what extent is it like oftentimes healthy or productive to get feedback from friends? Because I feel like it's very stigmatized to not have direct communication, like person to person in the relationship. And yet I feel like especially at the beginning of relationships, like I have one friend who I'm like, this is like, it's one of her close friends from college.

Starting point is 00:10:09 I think they are gonna get married. Like I truly think they're in love with each other. They haven't acknowledged it. And like neither of them wants to like break the game of like friendship chicken. And there's been times where I've really considered like should someone who knows both of them just kind of like do the thing of like testing the waters

Starting point is 00:10:24 and playing Cupid or like, you is different in this particular instance instance he had access to her friends it was pretty easy he didn't like it wasn't like you know you don't meet someone in a dating app and be like can i have a number of your friends that's also kind of weird but like if you have access and they're willing to like give you some information you should follow it i don't you know and so whether it's friends or something else, but like never assume that you know what's best for the people you like more than they know or that the people who know them best know.

Starting point is 00:10:55 You know, just- Especially after you asked for the answers. You know, I- Asked for the inside information and then you didn't use it. Yeah, I don't, and maybe this is a one-off situation, but I just have a feeling like a lot of people do this i don't know maybe not

Starting point is 00:11:09 but i was just yeah it's i because it it feels like there's a specific i don't even know how to categorize it but like kind of like i guess like group of actions where it's like it's not logical and it's almost unstoppable like when people like want to hook up with a person who they on a logical level like no it's completely toxic no it's not going anywhere no they're not being respected their boundaries aren't being met whatever but it's just like there's the like the pole like the magnetic pole and it feels like this is a similar one where it's like he maybe like on a rational or like intellectual level like knew better like was like okay so the right thing to do is not do that but then he just couldn't help himself but like to dive in well they had like a they had a disney date did she

Starting point is 00:11:49 know no she did i was kidding when i said kidnap but because someone told me someone told me that they were like oh i was gonna like do this whole surprise thing and take you to disney and then i realized you probably should know and my response was well yes please like in theory it's like how am i supposed to get my ears ready she knew she was going to disney she said yes to disney but once they got to disney there wasn't a lot of like checking in about like how long you want to be at disney and you know if you have other plans later in the day it was just like kind of you know so is your friend kind of done with him now yeah yeah yeah because there's nothing

Starting point is 00:12:25 like which was really disappointing because it had so much potential i think that was what's so sad about it is that she like genuinely was super into him and yeah but if she's already wanting him to go slower and he does nothing but like continues to rev the engine you're it's gonna be a done yeah it was just all you know it's just like mom mom's involved you know it's too much too far i feel like the single best skill in life is like being able to read a room yeah yeah that's a good one like it this is a smart person like i and i like like i don't know a ton about this person but what i know i like and i i think he was just blinded by infatuation like he was so into her that kind of all that caution went off?

Starting point is 00:13:07 I feel it's almost like, you know, like even with this show, like we, you know, I give advice, we give advice. And, you know, how people apply that advice matters too right and it's like it almost sounded like he was you know taking the advice of like you know don't like you know oh you don't want to look like a fuck boy so be really like direct and communicate and make plans and he was he was making certainly making plans and he was showing an interest and he was you know doing like you know you could argue using all the things that people talk about how to not look like a fuck boy type of thing. But it was just like having that balance

Starting point is 00:13:51 and knowing when to pull back and still like, you know, you can still communicate and be clear and you can still take things slow. Like not being a fuck boy or wanting to pursue someone doesn't mean you have to like, you know, floor it, you know? And it doesn't mean you have to define a relationship in like a couple of weeks. Yeah, like at one point he was just like,

Starting point is 00:14:15 I think after a couple of days was like trying to define the relationship. And it was just like, what do you know about this person? Anyway, I was bummed because there was so much potential there, you know? And so it just goes to show that like, take your time,

Starting point is 00:14:31 slow things down, you know, take the advice of their friends if they offer it. Make life easier on yourself, people. Anyway. But if they don't do that and you end up in a breakup,

Starting point is 00:14:42 check out our breakup playlist. It's on our Instagram. And this week's breakup song of the week is Hard Feeling Slash Loveless by Lorde. Shout out to Natalie for not your Natalie, a different Natalie for submitting this. She says, I am now in the happiest relationship of my life. But this song is what I had on repeat during my last breakup with my emotionally abusive ex. Quote she highlighted was, i light all the candles cut flowers for all my rooms i care for myself the way i used to care about you these days we kiss

Starting point is 00:15:10 and we keep busy the waves come after midnight i call from underwater why even try to get it right when you've outgrown a lover the whole world knows but you it's time to let go of this endless summer afternoon it's so hard to read these lyrics not in like the in the rhythm of this endless summer afternoon. It's so hard to read these lyrics, not in like the rhythm of this. When you've grown a lover. Please rap it. Please do some like spoken word. Not at all. Yeah, it's Lorde, right? I just can't really sing.

Starting point is 00:15:33 So when I try to like indicate rhythm of- Can you dance? Yeah, in the sense that like I really like dancing and have a good time. I'm not like out there like but you can like putting my pussy into it but yeah i mean you you're on yeah i think so but i also think like i i don't i i feel like i i overcame this hump where like for for a while in college randomly i was just very self-conscious on dance floors and And then after COVID, I think after like the isolation,

Starting point is 00:16:05 I was like, I don't give a fuck about how I look. Like I don't really. There you go. But I feel like it was really hard for me to get there. Do you guys care about how you look dancing? Not really. I mean, sure.

Starting point is 00:16:18 I can dance. It probably depends on the context. You know what I mean? Like are you in a room with friends? Like I know I'm not like Elaine Bennis. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Se with seinfeld but she was notoriously a bad dancer on the show but it's like i don't think i dance in a way that's like oh my god someone's gonna come up to me like you're so hot when you dance but i do think i would be i'm a very good contribution to

Starting point is 00:16:39 like a wedding but when you're dancing people aren't like oh no no no and i force them to get involved the best dance move and i stand by this is to hold a microphone and someone like for someone who's enjoying the song a fake microphone pretending to hold a microphone up for them to sing there you go it's such a crowd pleaser people feel because people are like kind of waiting for permission i think a lot of times to like get into it a little bit more than they are. And they unleashed the floodgates. But going back to what Natalie had to say, she said, these lyrics really resonated with me because I felt like during the relationship,

Starting point is 00:17:11 especially towards the end, I was so consumed with trying to make the relationship work that I neglected my own needs and I did not give myself enough self-love. She mentions kissing, keeping busy, et cetera, which I feel like is relatable in so many ways because when it ends, you just want

Starting point is 00:17:25 to do anything you can to keep busy and distract yourself from the pain including kissing new people sometimes drinking the reference about calling from underwater I love her also mentioning how when it's over the whole world knows but you it does feel that way sometimes how so many people see how bad you are for each other but you sometimes can't when you're close to it and I do agree that that is one of the most like like the first time i heard that like this lord song i listened to the full melodrama at boston logan airport and that was a lyric that really stood out do you agree with that like when you outgrow a lover the whole world knows but you when you outgrow a lover yeah potentially yeah the world might know before you that's i think one of the parts of the breakup

Starting point is 00:18:08 that sometimes not always i don't know because it's case by case i can think of examples not in my own life but like from my friends like sometimes they're like we broke up and people could be like what really and you're like yeah you're like oh you know yeah so it kind of depends if you are tired of people judging your mental intellect based off of your inability to spell things correctly or put commas where they're supposed to go or have run-on sentences or all of the above, you know who you are because you're one of me.

Starting point is 00:18:36 Think of Grammarly. Grammarly is helping people, well, seem smarter. Grammarly is helping with everything. You know, Vampire Weekend once famously asked the question, who gives an F about Knoxford comma? Grammarly does. It is not just your spelling. It is not just punctuation or typos.

Starting point is 00:18:54 It is also everything from like making sure it's like punctuated in a way that sounds professional, telling you if your tone could be more confident. Yeah, the like tone detector is the best part. Let Grammarly help you out, letting you know, you know, maybe this isn't the time for a little sarcasm. You know what I'm saying? On the other side of things, if you're a little bit meek, if you're a people pleaser,

Starting point is 00:19:14 if you just want to make sure you're not bothering someone, Grammarly will like give me some suggestions that will really make me think about the way I treat others. They'll take out all the unnecessary apologies. Like, I just think, and they'll be like, get rid of just think. Just say what you're trying to say, girl.

Starting point is 00:19:27 I think. With Grammarly Premiums, Tone suggests and take your writing to the next level by keeping you professional as you balance being direct and friendly while finding solutions

Starting point is 00:19:34 with your team. Plus, Grammarly has tons of other great features. Advanced spelling, grammar, punctuation, and conciseness. Suggestions to ensure that your writing

Starting point is 00:19:42 is professional, mistake-free, and clear. Go to Grammarly.com slash tone to download and learn more about Grammarly's premium advanced tone suggestions. That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y dot com slash tone. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder.

Starting point is 00:20:10 This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession.

Starting point is 00:20:46 We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it. Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple.

Starting point is 00:20:58 Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude.

Starting point is 00:21:10 This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already.

Starting point is 00:21:18 We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Brav Bros. Good job. Five, six, seven, eight. I got my hungry root box in the mail.

Starting point is 00:21:31 It showed up on my step and it really wasn't stale. My hungry root box has cookie dough. You love that cookie dough. And I love it ever so. Yeah, you do. The other day i made a poke bowl it had salmon and cucumbers and jasmine you know when i am hungry i get really rabid that's why my favorite thing is their kits of salad yay well done well if you are someone who is just a busy bee and you have things to do you don't fancy yourself to be much of a cooker or you just don't have the time to go grocery shopping and worrying about are you picking out the right foods that are as healthy as you want them to be?

Starting point is 00:22:14 Well, let Hungry Root do all that work for you. Hungry Root not only comes up with delicious meals for you that are very easy to prepare, but they're pulling from the best ingredients on the planet. Purposely in my box when I was doing my quiz of what I wanted, put in that I don't want to spend a lot of time making something. Because if I have to spend a lot of time and I'm already tired, I'm just not going to do it. And so they sent me four different recipes. Right now, Hungry Root is offering the Vilefile listeners 30% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. How can you beat that? Just go to HungryRoot.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get 30% off your first delivery and get your free veggies for life.

Starting point is 00:22:52 HungryRoot.com slash V-I-A-L-L. And don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Well, we have a great show lined up for you and a great week. Tomorrow, the premiere of Zach's season, right? Zach? Is his name Zach? I'm thinking. Watch him stun us.

Starting point is 00:23:13 Watch him be the most multi-dimensional. He might. I think he could be a very distinctive, unique, show-stopping, gorgeous, beautiful. I think he has a chance to be a very likable bachelor, which we haven't had in some time. I think he has a shot. I think he's earnest and sincere. We'll see. We'll see.

Starting point is 00:23:30 You know. Yeah, I think he has a shot. But anyway, Arianna Maddox from Vanderpump Rules will be with us to break down episode one, probably talk a little Vanderpump, get a little tea with their most recent season. That is tomorrow. Now that we are back on the Monday schedule,

Starting point is 00:23:48 we'll be dropping those recaps after the episodes. Or, you know, first thing, it'll certainly be up by Tuesday morning. And then on Going Deeper on Thursday, Thursday, Going Deeper is sticking on Thursday. My dear friend and professional stylist to the stars, Brad Goreski, also has a new show coming out on MTV, I believe. But he'll be with us. Brad's always a good time.

Starting point is 00:24:13 If you're looking for a good laugh and a lighthearted conversation, I don't know what Brad and I are going to talk about, but I'm guessing it's going to be fun. I think he's a little mad at me that I didn't invite him to the engagement party. So he'll probably yell at me for that. Like, would Brad style us for your wedding? You can ask him. That's a burning question for Brad. That's this Thursday. And next

Starting point is 00:24:35 week on Going Deeper, a week after Thursday, the Lautners, Taylor Lautner and Taylor Lautner will be with us. You might know him from a popular series called Twilight. I was going to be like, shark boy and lava girl.

Starting point is 00:24:51 That's next Thursday. And Jim Jeffries will be helping us break down episode two of The Bachelor. So a couple of fun weeks lined up for you. If you haven't had a chance

Starting point is 00:25:03 to go and listen to mine and Natalie's engagement episode that came out last Thursday. So be sure to check that out if you haven't already. And finally, don't forget this Thursday night, 9 p.m. Eastern, episode two of Better Date Than Never, our new live show on AMP that's all about dating. We're helping people get ready for dates. We're helping people break down the dates that they had, deciding what their next steps are, maybe kind of going over various icks with the people that they're considering,

Starting point is 00:25:34 dating app discussions, things like that. It's all focused on dating. Dating is hard enough. You might as well have a community of people to do it with. Like I said, it's live and interactive. You'll be able to participate in the conversations as well. So be sure to check that out. You have to have an iPhone and you have to live in America. I'm sorry. And as far as all the people asking whether we are going to put out those episodes somewhere else, eventually, yes. Right now,

Starting point is 00:26:02 TBD, we're deciding what we want to do with those episodes. So be patient if you either can't join in or you don't live in America or you don't have an iPhone. But for everyone else, try to take the time. It's super fun. It's super engaging. And you will hopefully get to see, you know, I don't know, different sides of us, but like a bit more intimate live setting. So be sure to check that out. That's Thursday, 9pm Eastern. Anything else, ladies, that I'm missing? Just if you're listening to this on Monday, and you appeared on the show, and you have an update for us, email me now. Right this instant, asknick at thevilefiles.com. If you haven't appeared on the show, and you want to, also email asknick at thevilefiles.com, but it's not as urgent.

Starting point is 00:26:44 If you haven't appeared on the show and you want to, also email asknickatthevilefiles.com, but it's not as urgent. Yeah. Updates. Get those updates in. Don't forget to send all your questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick related, whether it's texting office hours, any mediations. We'd still love to do those. Just obviously, we need two people willing to do it.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Okay. Let's get to our callers. Question time with Nick. Let's ask nick your sexy questions how's it going hi i'm whitney i'm 29 years old and i am fucking my friend's situation ship oh my god yeah how did that happen all right so walk us through the first time you had some sex like i would like set the stage set the you know yeah so we ended up um he slid into my dms over i was on vacation and he was like oh that was fun blah blah blah moved to texting and then it was kind of like the elephant in the room on what was going on

Starting point is 00:27:45 so when i got back from my vacation i was like listen you need to come over and we need to talk about this elephant in the room well obviously i hear her side of the story he's a fuck boy blah blah blah he's like i mean that's not true i mean no he is okay that's true okay so we're yeah so he tells his side of the story and i I'm like, wow, I actually kind of believe your side. You don't sound as crazy. So that first night we didn't hook up. Well, then a couple of days later, he was like, look, I want to date you, blah, blah, blah, take you out. So he's like, let me cook you dinner at my house.

Starting point is 00:28:17 We'll watch Love Island, go figure, all this stuff. So we ended up hooking up that night and it was really good. And this is probably tmi but my friend there's no such thing in this show right well my friend was bitching that he never went down on her ever and he went down on me the first time multiple times so i'm like do i like have a leg up is he really interested in me he took me out on a date we're supposed to hang out in two days he's taking me on a date again so i'm kind of like like is this a thing like he's taking me out on dates he's doing sexual things with me that he hasn't done with her like i i mean all that really

Starting point is 00:28:55 means is that he might be we could he could be more into you physically you know maybe the connections better uh clearly like he does go down on people so it's not like a preference thing for He could be more into you physically. Maybe the connection's better. Clearly, he does go down on people, so it's not like a preference thing for him. I wouldn't let your ego make it that much more meaningful than it is. Hearing that he didn't go down on her and then he's going down on you, your ego probably in that moment

Starting point is 00:29:23 while you're just having a little orgasm, it like fuck yeah i'm the best you know like yeah he wanted it you know like i don't yeah i just i don't know because she was always complaining how like he never returned the favor that's that nick i didn't even have to blow him and he did in any ways so i'm just like okay again congratulations you know he's he's he's into you but you know there's two questions for you like what do you want to do about this friendship and how do you go about that uh you've already like you've already had sex with him so there's no like conversations like what do i do do i pursue this guy you've already pursued him. Like you're already in deep. And whether you decide to date him or not, you've already been a little messy. And so now you have to figure out what you are prioritizing. And if this relationship is anything that you want to try to salvage or maintain or save. salvage or maintain or save right so the situation with her is that actually our friend group of about three to five people are actually kind of sick of her because of this said situationship

Starting point is 00:30:33 and how she acts with it so that's kind of taking care of itself how many people in the friend group know about this though so interesting on friday he was like let's go out to dinner blah blah blah and i was like okay cool and he's like well let's go out to dinner, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, cool. And he's like, well, these other two people from his friend group who are also kind of fucking in a situation where he's like, well, we can go meet up with them later. And I was like, well, do these two people know about like, they know me. So I think it's going to be kind of shocking if they see us together on Friday, and we end up hanging out. But I mean, he's wanting to like bring me around the group as I guess the person that he's with.

Starting point is 00:31:08 And he never really did that with the other girl. They kind of just knew that it was a situation shift. So like, he's not necessarily hiding me. I just, I mean, I just, she's kind of done her own thing and people have kind of started to back off from her because of how nuts she's gotten over this. But I don't really know how this is going to go over. Not well.

Starting point is 00:31:36 No, not well. It's going to get messy. You know? I know. And she is going to be loud and she is going to tell as many people as she can. And she's going to try to character assassinate you and him. And anyone who hears her side of the story is going to think the worst of you because it sounds bad. Like, you know, I know i'm so i'm being you definitely

Starting point is 00:32:07 did not no yeah no we're only human i'm no judgment i appreciate your honesty but let's you know we're just i'm just looking at this at face value and you recognize that you did not handle this in the most mature and thoughtful way considering everyone's feelings right no okay so that's good that you can acknowledge that i don't think it does you or your character any good um to you know find ways to discredit her or that relationship or that situationship the fact that he seemingly is more into you now than her you know that's good for you the fact that you seemingly is more into you now than her, you know, that's good for you, the fact that you like him, but I would, you know, really protect your character in this moment, you know, over your ego. And that doesn't mean you can't pursue him, but I think you maybe want to

Starting point is 00:32:57 pull back a little bit in terms of conversations you have with him. I would hate for you and him to justify your actions and then use her behavior or her personality or whatever went wrong in that relationship as a means to justify your choices. I think you can acknowledge that you didn't handle this situation in the best way own up to it you know she's never going to forgive you but you can I guess forgive yourself you know like you know sometimes we make mistakes and it doesn't really matter you know we can apologize to the appropriate people whether they want to forgive us or not that's entirely up to them but I think there is something to be said about acknowledging

Starting point is 00:33:45 it to yourself. Hey, I disappointed myself with the way I handled this. If I were in her shoes, I would have really hated being on the receiving end of this. And I would have wanted someone else to treat me better than I treated someone in this moment. And I just should remember that for the next time. And I should just hold myself accountable by simply just acknowledging that to myself. And I think you can do that without beating yourself up. That's still a more productive exercise than feeling bad about it and then pretending it's not that big of a deal. we all do this. And then to make ourselves feel better, say things like, well, I mean, she was a bitch anyways, or whatever it is, trying to discredit her or that relationship because you don't want to just say to yourself, you know what? I did kind of a shitty thing to someone that I claim to be a friend. And I was a little selfish in this moment. And instead of taking a timeout and telling him to deal with his shit before he decided to hook up with me, I decided to be in the moment and be a little selfish, etc, etc.

Starting point is 00:34:53 So another reason why I did pursue this, because I had all of those same thoughts going through this is that our friend group and his friend group both know he has explicitly told her, I've heard it, my friends have heard it. He he has said i do not want to be with you my friend saying i don't want to be with you i don't want to date you i don't want it to be anything else but yet yeah he's still fucking her and he was still doing shit and i'm sure he was doing things to like lead her on and he was doing all the fuck boy shit he's's a fuck boy. Like, I know, you know, and I don't know if you've read my book yet.

Starting point is 00:35:29 You should. I do have it. And I have read it. Okay. But yeah, he might be your person. You know, every fuck boy is someday going to stop being a fuck boy for someone.

Starting point is 00:35:38 They decide to want to make a priority, but he's very much a fuck boy. Right. And maybe you're a little bit of a fuck boy too you know so that's again just something to recognize because now you have to decide as far as this relationship in this guy is all right do i want to pursue him sounds like you do but how do i want a relationship with him or do i am i fine with just being a fuck boy with him and having a situationship that's a little bit more meaningful than what he had with her?

Starting point is 00:36:07 Like, what do you want out of this situation? Well, he has it. I don't know if this is just fuckboy. I don't care about him. I want to know what you want. I do want to have a relationship with him. I do. I vibe with him.

Starting point is 00:36:18 I click with him. I do like something. And he's told me that, too. So, like, I do want to date him and pursue him and potentially date him and stuff and he's told me you know you're the kind of girl good job good head on her shoulders this that I do see myself you know dating you and whatnot I had asked you know do you see that with my friend and he has explicitly told my friend I do not see myself dating you marrying you anything like that and I was like, Oh, wow. But he's like, you know, you are more my type. Anyways, this girl and I are very different. We're just different people.

Starting point is 00:36:50 And, you know, he's like, you're more my type, this and that. And so like, I mean, we've obviously fucked, we've been on two or three dates, we're going out in two more days. And he calls me every morning before work, I call him, he texts me, he's even offered for my cat to go to his place he got a litter box for her all this stuff so like it's just little things like that where i'm like that doesn't seem very fuck boyish like it does but it doesn't like every fuck boy has acted like a boyfriend uh to the person they're being a fuck boy to. So just know that. Okay. I'm not telling you not to be excited. I'm just saying, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:33 you can be excited and slow things down at the same time. You can be excited and still level-headed at the same time. And I do think it would be worthwhile, maybe on your next date, to just say and have a mature conversation with him because it's very easy to get caught up in the moment it's very easy to justify uh you know all your actions because it all feels good like how could this be bad it feels so good we're like we're you know i'm your type you're my type and like you know it was just an unfortunate situation that like you i you know

Starting point is 00:38:02 like we wouldn't have met if it weren't for you having met her so i guess it justified you know let him say like it doesn't justify any of that you know and so i think you i i would be interested in you having a conversation with him and and saying hey listen first of all like can i just say like i i like you like i'm excited about this this is fun i feel like you feel the, I'm excited about this. This is fun. I feel like you feel the same way. That's exciting. And hopefully he says, yeah, me too. And then you could say something like, but I do want to talk to you a little bit about like, I feel a little bit bad about how we handled it, you know? And, um, you know, it is what it is, but like,

Starting point is 00:38:42 I know that I wouldn't have wanted someone to handle, like treat me the way we treated her. And I'm not saying this to make either of us feel bad, but I guess I just want to have a conversation with you about it. And I'm just curious how you feel about it because like, I still want to pursue you, but I just want to recognize that I wish I would have handled that a little bit more thoughtfully and empathetically as it relates to her because i think we could have pursued each other while being more considered to her feelings and and i'm just curious about what he would say or maybe you've had that conversation already hold on to your kilts dearies peacock original the traitors is back with a new

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Starting point is 00:41:01 every scenario. Tell her, don't tell her her let's date each other and see where it goes because what if we end up dating and we're like i'm like i'm not into you and you're like i'm not into you then do we tell i mean we've already fucked so i mean do we tell her like hey we're dating we're trying to whatever like i i know that that friendship is going to be done and dusted i know that but at the same time it's like when I guess we've gone through him and I, every route of what to do. And I, it's kind of like,

Starting point is 00:41:30 you know, I want to do, I always think about other people, which I think is a great quality to have. But at the same time, it's like, if this is the person that every fuck boy settles down eventually, like what if I'm that person or we get along?

Starting point is 00:41:41 Like, do we avoid that because of her or not? And he's told me, I've been honest with her. I don't want to be with her. He says, you know because of her or not and he's told me i've been honest with her i don't want to be with her he says you know she calls me and now he's kind of since we've been dating for the past two or three weeks he's kind of backed off from that and he's like i haven't really heard from her in three days so do we kind of let that you know take care of itself do we tell her because eventually i know i'm gonna have to tell her because i'd want her to hear it from me versus somebody

Starting point is 00:42:05 else in the friend group or through social media or something along those lines. Yeah, I think the right, the most mature thing to do would be for you to tell her. Because you have the relationship technically, you know, you're the friend and he's just her fuck boy so he could tell her but yeah i think if if it's is it better to hear from her him than you i guess i would say you just because right she she already probably doesn't think much of him anyways i wouldn't make excuses you know i would apologize and say it's along the lines of i'm sorry for the way i handled this i wish i would have talked to you first but i i was a little selfish and inconsiderate i was just

Starting point is 00:42:53 worried that i would upset you and that's not an excuse but i you know you kind of took the easy way out you you you tested it first and whatever i'm not i'm not trying to come down on you, but listen, our character is all we really have and sometimes we fuck up, but we can learn and going forward. I want you to set yourself up for success with this guy. And he has some obvious red flags. And I think it's just good that you take things slow with this guy.

Starting point is 00:43:26 You can be excited and take things slow all these little things he does you know he got me flowers but those are nice but like early on they're kind of meaningless because like he he's excited about you and and the fact that he you know likes you more than he likes her is is telling he's excited about you and and the fact that he you know likes you more than he likes her is is telling he's probably telling himself oh well that must make her more special or whatever and i don't you know maybe this is an amazing thing but he he is comparing you to and so you are you're you're that's an advantage for you right now but you know maybe who knows after three or four weeks or two or three months when that drama has gone away and she's completely out of the picture that could change how he feels i don't know right and i guess my thing is i guess

Starting point is 00:44:20 time will tell but i just i don't want this to turn into a situation ship and then it blowing up in my face, which it very well might so be, but it's like, it can either go one way or another. And I mean, I'm interested in him. He seems interested in me, but I just, there's something telling me like, this is just going to blow up in your face and it might. It might. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:42 You, we can't tell. There's definitely some red flags but you know you have to set what are your boundaries for this relationship what do you want if you want to pursue him you should have conversations with him about having a relationship i mean this relation this has moved fairly quickly so well i think you should slow things down in a sense about like don't play house you know don't be afraid to want to hang out with him but still not hang out with them you know so instead of like hanging you know all of a sudden you hung out with two days in a row and you're like i'll be honest i'd love to see you a third

Starting point is 00:45:17 day in a row maybe you just you know say let's just hang out on sunday instead of thursday you know what i'm saying like just don't be afraid to space it out and don't be afraid to you know, say, let's just hang out on Sunday instead of Thursday. You know what I'm saying? Like, just don't be afraid to space it out and don't be afraid to, you know, make sure you hang out with other friends all while you're hanging out with him and things just have to progress, you know? And in the meantime, when you do hang out with him, don't be afraid to have conversations and ask him questions about relationships and dating and get to know him. Because again, people often in your shoes will just run off the high. You'll run off the wave. And you won't really talk about each other and get to know each other.

Starting point is 00:45:57 It'll be like surface level. Do you like roller coasters? I'm like, I like roller coasters too. Oh my God, we're in love. That's the conversations people often have early on when they're really excited they don't have the you know deeper more meaningful conversations that really help you get to know someone and so just don't be afraid to have those types of conversations i've said this before there's this great game out there called um we're really not strangers I think it is and it's just like it they're just question prompts you know and like maybe on a on a date early on you you bust out that game and say I want to play this game with you

Starting point is 00:46:35 and like some of those questions might not apply because some of them are more deeper and so maybe you go through it early on and pick out some good questions that like you think would you know help you get to know him a little bit better, help him get to know you a little bit better. You know, might might scratch the surface of vulnerability a little bit like you don't want to get too heavy, you know. But also, you don't even need the game if you're good at coming up with questions. That's just nice because they they've already thought of a lot of like good, thoughtful questions that help people open up. they've already thought of a lot of good, thoughtful questions that help people open up. But just challenge yourself to focus on questions that are relationship specific. And don't be afraid to say, hey, listen, I definitely want to see you. I'm busy for the next couple of days because you're going to prioritize your friends or your work or whatever. Just don't lose yourself in the excitement of it all. And just be in control of the situation. You know, think to yourself, I want to drive this. So

Starting point is 00:47:31 set your standards and set your expectations with him. And that will only like make him more excited about you as well, that you like, you know, you're, you're available and then not available a little bit, you know, and, and then, but just think as long as we're progressing, you know, you're, you're available and then not available a little bit, you know, and, and then, but just think as long as we're progressing, you know, after you go on a date or a couple of dates, do think to yourself, do I know him a little bit more than I did for the previous date? Great. You know, but I always still have a lot more to get to know, you know, and even when it feels like you've run out of things to ask him, trust me, you have more to get to know. And sometimes it's going to be situational. You're just gonna have to be in situations and see how they respond. But I think if you focus on pursuing this as a relationship and stay on track and then have certain boundaries for yourself of like,

Starting point is 00:48:16 I don't want this to be a situationship. So what are scenarios in which I want to avoid? You know, and then maybe that might pop up and say, and as soon as you feel it, avoid, you know, and, and then maybe that might pop up, uh, and say, and as soon as you feel it, just, you know, no, no, to call it out or, or pull back. Well, it's funny you say that because he's, um, he's been like, you know, last night I worked the late shift and he was like, well, why don't you come over afterwards? And I was like, well, you know, I haven't been home all day. My cat's at home. I need to go with her. And he's like, oh, okay. Well, like, you're always welcome to come here. And I was like, oh, you know, maybe this weekend or whatever. And then he's like, well, you know, do you want to go on a date on Friday? We can, you know, do this or do

Starting point is 00:48:50 that. So in a weird way, I do feel like I have the upper hand in this. And I've been there. And that's great. I love that energy. Like, instead of like coming over for the late night hookup, make sure he's taking you out on dates. And then I've said to you like, well, you know, my cat's at home. I don't want to leave her alone. And he's like, well, I'll come over there. And I'm like, okay. Or said to you like well you know my cat's at home i don't want to leave her alone and he's like well i'll come over there and i'm like okay or oh well you know she can you know you can bring her over here like i'll do this and that and he has so it's it's that game and i can kind of tell whenever i have the upper hand and for a couple days he's had the upper hand a little bit so i kind of have to play that you know back and forth and whatnot and i do have plans to

Starting point is 00:49:22 hang out with um other friends on um saturday and such so i've been like well you know back and forth and whatnot and i do have plans to hang out with um other friends on um saturday and such so i've been like well you know i do have plans on saturday but i can't on friday and so i don't tell them you know what i'm doing so yeah but think of it less of as a game and more of you just like not dropping off the face of the earth with the other things you have in your life and as long as you and you keep that focus it will just seem less gamey rather than you just like trying to fuck around with him um but uh yeah i mean it sounds like you know you're as far as he is concerned it sounds like you're a decent spot just take it slow and again just be willing to keep getting to know him and ask him questions but i wouldn't be given the pace in which it's going. Uh, I would,

Starting point is 00:50:07 I would define the relationship fairly soon. Okay. And then you think I should probably call my friends like a day after this podcast or in the next year to wait till my date after I talked to him. I mean, I would, I would let him know. I wouldn't ask for his permission. I would say, Hey, listen, I've thought about this. I just need to call her. I know she's going to hate me and whatever, but I just, I don't love how I handled it. But, and I just want to try to do the right thing here. Even if that means, you know, um, her thinking, whatever of me, but you know, how she feels about you or how she's going to feel

Starting point is 00:50:45 about you shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing. Um, and no matter what she says, you will still like feel good that you at least tried to fix a bad situation. And in the future, just remember, you know, to have a little bit more patience and, you know, not, maybe not given to the moment so so easily but you know we've all we've all been all the plans i had all the plans to not give into the moment well and that just made it hotter i'm sure and more fun and probably got you some moral sex it did it did we're only human uh but you know we just have to learn live and learn and try to do the right thing going forward most people just keep making excuses and keep justifying it and never own up to it.

Starting point is 00:51:27 So good for you for being willing to do that. Thank you. All right. Well, good luck. Proceed with caution. Keep us very much posted. Yeah. I absolutely will, Nick.

Starting point is 00:51:37 Maybe you'll see me on a future episode. All right. Well, either way. Yes, we definitely want an update for sure. No matter how it goes. All right. Good luck. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:51:44 Take care. And congratulations. Thank you so much. Take care. And congratulations. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. How's it going?

Starting point is 00:51:53 Hi, it's going good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Jessica, and I am 32 years old. How can we help, Jessica? I was in an open relationship with my husband because it was long distance. And now that it's no longer long distance, I just am not sure how I feel about our relationship.

Starting point is 00:52:09 Okay. All right. Interesting. Wow. Fun. Yeah. For us. It's a fun story.

Starting point is 00:52:16 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I guess the big question is, I mean, I'd love to know just, I mean, for fun, Yeah, I mean, so I guess the big question is, I mean, I'd love to know just, I mean, for fun, for us, for the audience, I'm sure they'd be interested in how you guys even broached the subject about being in an open relationship while it was long distance. And how did that go? I'm really curious about how you guys communicated things. Was he also in an open relationship and i'm really curious about how you guys maneuvered and communicated uh while that was going on yeah so just to like preface this um

Starting point is 00:52:55 i'm very unconditional like i don't i never really believed in marriage um i've never been in an open relationship i've always been in long- relationships. However, I did meet my husband overseas. And as you may or may not know, the process to have a spouse come and move with you from another country is very daunting. It takes a long time. And we got married right before the pandemic. So everything just took a lot longer. everything just took a lot longer. So we were long distance for four years of our relationship. The last year ish, I actually did cheat on my husband by kissing someone that I was spending time with a friend that kind of sparked into something else. I let my husband know, minutes after following my eyes out, obviously, felt a lot of guilt, went to therapy. We kind of worked through it. And then I started having the feelings that I wanted to do it again.

Starting point is 00:53:53 And I did communicate that with him. I was very honest that I'm having a hard time being apart, being lonely. It was impacting my mental health. And then my therapist did recommend trying an open relationship. We talked about it, never did it. And then eventually, we did agree to do it. My husband was less on board with it than I was. However, we were kind of just at a spot where either we were going to break up because I just couldn't do this long distance anymore, or we were going to try something new. And I was willing to just try

Starting point is 00:54:25 something new so we tried that it was a lot of fun for me I really enjoyed my time um I just felt young dating again going out um him and I slowed down our communication quite a lot during that time which was also nice for both of us I think because um being long distance you're talking non-stop all day every day and it's just exhausting yeah it can get stressful yeah so then um to just sum it up pretty much all of a sudden things with our application for him to move here just started moving very quickly and I pretty much went with from sleeping with other people to my husband living here full time with me in my home. And it sucks. It is really hard.

Starting point is 00:55:09 I'm not going to put it lightly. It is not fun to just be. It feels like we got married overnight. I went from being single almost to just married the next day living with someone full time. When you guys got married or when you were dating before you got married in your courtship, like were you was that long distance or was like or did you like go overseas? It's always been long distance. Was it a fairly quick engagement? Well, we technically didn't get engaged. I just asked him one day if he wanted to get married. And when next time I came in, we just started planning it. He did propose to me and I said, No, like I said, I just am not like an engaged, you're a complicated creature. Yeah, I am very complicated. Yes. That is what my therapist says too.

Starting point is 00:56:05 Um, but yeah, we did date for a year prior to getting married and yeah, it was very quick, but for me it didn't feel quick because I dated someone for seven years and four years and I just never saw marriage. But with him, I saw it almost immediately. And what do you, and do you still see it? Like what are the qualities that you see in him that made you broach that subject? Because there's the whole sex part and the physical element, which is, you know, I love sex. I love that I'm physically attracted to my fiance. And I love that about our relationship. But I also recognize and I'm grateful that there is so much more of that relationship as our relationship evolves, right?

Starting point is 00:56:40 Like, you know, I hope we're fucking until we're 70s and I hope we're having weird sex, you know, I hope, I hope we're fucking until over our seventies and I hope we're having weird sex, you know, and when we're 90, but like, I'm also, you know, understand that like, there's a lot more to our relationship than the physical aspect of it. And that's why I want to spend the rest of my life with her. And I'm curious, like, what are the qualities you saw in him that made you want to bring that up? Just even being someone who wasn't even into the idea in the first place. Yeah, good question. I still feel, so I'll list off a few things, but like I still feel all of these things today.

Starting point is 00:57:14 So that adds another layer of complication. But I just find I'm a very outgoing person. I am very wild. I like to have a good time. I kind of like I don't know I just I'm I can be loud obnoxious a little bit and he's more calm caring kind um I'm not a very patient person he's very patient with me um he just has like a drive and motivation about him that I really admire because I also do in my career um and yeah he just I don't know he's just like a very deep thinker is how like he thinks of everything so deeply like something so simple like a video that he'll watch on YouTube or like Disney movies make him sad um you know like just like that so we work really well and we communicated so well apart but now

Starting point is 00:58:06 that he's here i'm irritable i just feel like he's invading your space i mean i can get i i get the feeling of like it feels like we got married overnight i um i get that but you are married now and he, and you made a commitment to each other. Um, and it sounds like you're being a bit more to a lot more selfish than he is, you know, and he, it sounds like he loves you and he seems like he's been willing to do this for you because it didn't sound like something that he was personally interested in,

Starting point is 00:58:41 but more like, okay to do it. And being the thoughtful person that he is, maybe he was like, you know but more like okay to do it and being the thoughtful person that he is, maybe he was like, you know what, I guess I can, you know, I can, I can, I can do this. Right. Um, that's accurate. What are you doing for him? You know, what are, what are you doing, um, to meet his needs and go out of your way and what sacrifices have you if at all are you are you making for him because eventually he's just going to get sick of of of it being a bit one-sided when it comes to uh going out of his way to meet your needs and and i'm just carrying curious is

Starting point is 00:59:22 there anything at all that you're doing right now in terms of going out of your way to meet his needs that is as obvious to him as it is to you? Yeah, no, you're pretty bang on there. I can't name a whole bunch. I guess some of the things that I kind of feel like I like hold over his head almost unintentionally, but he was never able to visit me um because of the restrictions within his country so i was always having to visit him um financially it was expensive and sure okay that's just nice circumstances yeah um so that's kind of something that has always been complicated in our relationship i always just felt like i was always sacrificing and sacrificing and sacrificing um now he's here and you're i can confidently say there's not too much that i'm doing aside from providing him a beautiful place to live and

Starting point is 01:00:14 um like providing him with opportunities and showing him things but um yeah which is something you know it's something yeah yeah but in terms of like how i feel like i'm being towards him i can recognize in myself that i'm not being fair or i'm just like kind of i don't know add his head a little bit when when he doesn't really deserve it he's not doing anything aside from just being there and i'm like oh what conversations uh i mean has he even found a job yet yeah so he started working four days after he got here so yeah it's good what what conversations have you had with him about this like how aware of is he of your frustrations yeah he's pretty aware and um like i said like therapy helps me be i'm overly aware of the way I am, which is a gift and a curse.

Starting point is 01:01:06 But I definitely notice when I'm being selfish or irritable or unreasonable. And I see those things in myself right now. And I'm like, is it because this is new and a transition or is it maybe we're just not compatible? I don't know. Well, it's definitely new and it's definitely a transition and that's definitely affecting it so i don't know if you really will be able to tell anytime soon uh you know yeah well you say you're not sure if we're compatible what makes you think we're not compatible because nothing you haven't described described any incompatibility.

Starting point is 01:01:45 What you've described is, you know, your kind of outgoing spirit. And listen, you were given this kind of freedom. And you had this really understanding and empathetic husband that allowed you to truly have your cake and eat it too. husband that allowed you to truly have your cake and eat it too and you could be emotionally invested in your relationship with your husband while getting a variety of some really good dick and like that sounds like fucking great for you know like for someone who's like a more sexually driven person and and you guys had this expectation that that would stop when he moved out and yeah i mean it's just like you're being asked to like give that up cold turkey and so that's just gonna be a that's gonna be it's a change it's a dramatic change and um that has

Starting point is 01:02:33 nothing to do with necessarily compatibility it's just more like it's it's it's a it's a completely different shift in the relationship he's there all the time you know you don't you're not you can't independent all of a sudden you have to give up dating other people it's just a totally different relationship and so yeah um compatibility i i see more in terms of like your your both your personalities your ability your wants and desires i mean yeah like hey we're not compatible i want to fuck other people he doesn't like i get that sure, that would be a point of incompatibility, but I feel like what you're feeling now seems more like just a very drastic shift in the dynamic of your relationship. Um, more so than compatibility, you just have to decide, um, like what you want, like what,

Starting point is 01:03:20 like, do you even, it's to me, it's more like, do you even want to be married? And if you are married, what does that marriage look like and is he the type of person who can meet your needs with the type of non-traditional relationship that you're looking for um or can you settle into this new dynamic communicate through couples therapy know when to take some breaks and maybe it's just like yeah like it's just like it it's just your you you need a little you your independence was this kind of ripped out from you from under the rug and you've sounds like you're a fairly independent person and so maybe you just need to kind of get used to that all while simultaneously find ways to, you know, have your alone time or your independent time, et cetera, et cetera, and just kind

Starting point is 01:04:10 of find different ways to do that so that you don't feel, you know, claustrophobic in your relationship and you don't feel like anxious and annoyed by him and things like that. Yeah. And we've definitely been trying different things like sometimes I'll get home and I'll be like you know what I just want to be alone right now is it okay if I have the bedroom and you can go in the living room vice versa like we are working on that and I guess your question of what I want is a complicated one I truly don't know and I don't

Starting point is 01:04:40 know if it's that I'm not ready for marriage or just that you know what I went from just having like a great time being single but do I I'm 32 do I want to be and I'm not in a rush to like start life by any means not to have children either right now um but I guess like I just feel like he's like the perfect person that I could want yet I'm still like kind of like craving that single life a little bit so yeah I just I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I kind of just need to make a decision, and I'm hoping you'll make it for me so I don't have to. I'm definitely not going to make it for you. I mean, yeah, because it's just, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:05:21 How is he open to having an open relationship with you? We haven't discussed that. And I'm not necessarily sure that now that we're both in the same place, it's even something I would be okay with. Why not? I mean, that doesn't seem to track. I guess it's just that when you're long distance, you don't get to see firsthand

Starting point is 01:05:46 what time they come home or those sorts of things it's kind of a little bit more mystery to it and like the less you know maybe you need a little jealousy in your relationship yeah to appreciate what you what you're what you could be losing yeah no that's that's very fair as well and probably true um i think like right now it would be good for him to just start like we're trying to work on him making like friendships at work and stuff so he could start going out with um his group of friends and kind of like not just with mine because now when i go out he has to always come with or or he doesn't but then i feel bad that he's like at home and i'm like well i want him to start going out too so yeah i can kind of feel that like sense of like i miss you where are you what are you doing you know what does your therapist say about this kind of

Starting point is 01:06:35 mindset that you have i mean you know 32 whatever you still like enjoy your but like your free time relationships are about sacrifice i mean it comes down to do you want to be in relationship ever and if so we like you know 33 34 35 36 you know nothing at some point you're if you want to be in a monogamous relationship you are going to have to make some sacrifices you know and any any person who enjoys sex and any person who likes hot people or like likes to you know like you just see people and we as appreciator of beauty you know you know like in my relationship like i i'm not i'm not a jealous guy so like i i don't i don't want to pretend that natalie doesn't find other men attractive you know what i'm saying like i love that she makes me feel incredibly desired and i love that she makes me feel like above all things that it's me she wants and desires but i don't need to like pretend and i don't want to hear it i don't need to her to tell

Starting point is 01:07:43 me but i just recognize that there are other people she finds attractive and again she i love that she's willing to give up that independence and freedom for me because she loves me you know um and i'm just wondering do you think you're ever going to get to a point where you're going to want to make that sacrifices for someone because it doesn't sound to me like it he's not worth it it just sounds to me that you're you're kind of at a place where you're like i just don't know if i want to do this for anyone yeah um yeah that's fair and that is i i don't know i guess it's challenging because i've always been in relationships and i never had this urge or issue with like you never married before you know you

Starting point is 01:08:26 always had the ability to be like I can break up with you like it's very different to know that like I'm forever right that word forever is terrifying and so I guess I'm just like trying to wrap my head around what forever looks like or I guess right now it feels like things aren't so great so the word forever or being attached to something that's not feeling great is challenging for me where i'm like i could just be happy and not have to well you're literally talking to us right now about the possibility of ending the relationship so you recognize that despite a marriage being supposing to be forever like you can get out of it you know yes and you are married and there's nothing like you've already made that decision so

Starting point is 01:09:02 you know it will require lawyers and it will be messy but like there's no point in and and psyching yourself out about what that it means actually it doesn't mean forever if you don't want to be in it you know um yeah i i just think and maybe listen you guys have survived an open relationship of dating and maybe there's a middle ground you know like for example i have friends multiple friends who who have explored non-traditional you know who are married who have explored non-traditional relationships right um it doesn't mean like they're like active swingers who are hanging pineapple i love that i know the pineapple part now we have a i listen to it yeah that's great um that doesn't mean you need to be like on the dating apps and constantly fucking around and things like that like my you know uh i have friends where like they have

Starting point is 01:09:57 definitely explored um these non-traditional relationships there's parties people go to and it's like every once in a great while they they dip their toes in the water you know different you know they have their own things and their dynamics but like it's infrequent and it's rare but when it happens it's exhilarating and fun for both of them now it's this is something they both mutually enjoy and it's become a part of their relationship but they they have a lot of limitations and boundaries and a lot of communication, right? And just knowing that it's potentially on the table

Starting point is 01:10:33 for you guys to dabble in, maybe that's an option. But again, he needs to get on board with that too and want to do that. He can't just do it for you forever. He's only going to have so much patience before he before he's like can you stop fucking other dudes you know like um and yeah and and it's a thing with him that i don't feel like he that's just not his style and i think even and like yes i was fucking other dudes but like to put it nicely like I was also just like dating them.

Starting point is 01:11:05 Like I would like most of the people that I slept with or it was just a few. And it was I have a hard time just sleeping with someone. I also have to have some sort of emotional connection. So I guess it was less an open relationship, more polyamory. I don't really know. But yeah, I don't see that being something he would want to be on board with. And even if he agrees to it, I do know that that isn't something he likes so it's just not something i really want to do with him so what what does your therapist say about this desire to want to build multiple

Starting point is 01:11:35 emotional connections with people yeah like childhood shit you know um i'm sorry am i allowed to share yeah um yeah i guess it's just like a like I like to have a sense of control in my life. And when things aren't going the way that I like them, I like to change them so that I can be in control of my feelings and emotions. And I just don't like relying on someone for that. And I guess in a marriage, you can be like stressed because of someone else or angry because of someone else or whatever it is and i think that's challenging for me um yeah i like to have control sure that's good to recognize actively yeah i i think it would be um hasty of you to to end this right now given that you're still in this very huge adjustment period. You're going to have to decide for yourself.

Starting point is 01:12:31 And it sounds like you guys have potential, a lot of different types of conversations you could have, and you could explore different things. I mean, at the end of the day, you are married to this guy. And if you're going to be married, you guys are going to have to have if you're gonna be married you guys are gonna have to have tough conversations at times about your feelings and you have to create a safe space that you both can whether it's with just alone in your room or through couple therapy to just talk openly

Starting point is 01:12:58 about you know your personal struggles and then figure out potential solutions and see if you can get there but um so you know step one you just, I think you need to communicate with him a little bit more about your struggles and then just see if he's willing to continue to be this empathetic, understanding, understanding and thoughtful person that he has been and then go from there. But like, I definitely think there's a strong chance you could settle in and feel a lot less anxious about things and feel a lot less suffocated because it is a lot that all happened at once it was just a drastic change overnight quite literally it sounds like and yeah i can understand why you're in panic mode but like that might pass especially you know he starts making new friends you know things like

Starting point is 01:13:47 that and you know maybe you guys dabble in something non-traditional and maybe you'll allow you know he is still a guy so i mean like like he's like okay fine i'll fuck her you know like i don't know i'm just saying like like, you know, and maybe who knows that might re-energize your, like, make you a little jealous and make you want to protect him and never want to do it again. But I think if you, I think right now what you should focus on is trying to really find, better communicate with your husband. Find, try to,

Starting point is 01:14:27 don't be afraid to have any conversation with him. You know, lead with love, make him feel secure and safe. Let him know how much you care about him before you drop the, like, I'm still struggling. Like, you know, make sure he knows all the good aspects of the relationship that you feel

Starting point is 01:14:42 before you bring out other things and just ask. And, and, and, and also when you are having these tough conversations with him, make sure you are very grateful and express gratitude for his willingness to have these conversations. Uh, I don't know if you, how grateful you were in the past when you were having an open relationship while it was long distance, but I would, but I would make sure that you really show some appreciation for how understanding he was. Yes, of course.

Starting point is 01:15:11 Men love to be appreciated and they love to be complimented and they love to feel valued. And so make sure he's feeling valued right now, even though you're struggling and see if you can create an open line of communication with your husband that allows you to work through issues. And I think if you can build that, that will really probably make you, you know, like having that with Natalie now,

Starting point is 01:15:37 like, it's just like, wow, I never want to let that go. That ability to have a relationship where we can have some tough conversations and we can sit down calmly and and and express our vulnerabilities and our insecurities and concerns and fears without triggering the other person and just want to talk through things because we just want to make this relationship work and we and there's not a doubt in our mind of how much we love and care about each other you know despite being humans and having desires and having fears and insecurities and things from our past and stuff like that. And when you have that, that's the thing you want to protect the most.

Starting point is 01:16:14 And so work towards having that with your husband. And it sounds like you have a chance to have it because this is a guy who allowed you to date other people while he was, you know, that this is a very understanding guy you're, you're, you're married to and take advantage of that and try to build off of that and see if that makes you feel a little less anxious and a little less stressed out because you're now in your head and now you're maybe avoiding having these conversations because you don't want to let them down, but that's not going to get you to the place you need to be, to be, you know, happy and content in this relationship no that's fantastic advice

Starting point is 01:16:49 and kind of what i needed to hear i think i just it's good to hear a different perspective and to kind of have um just a way of thinking to move forward rather than me jumping off the cliff and being like i'm done i'm out of here yeah Yeah. Just take a breath and just, and yeah, just, it's okay to say to yourself, it's, it's, it's normal that I'm, it makes sense that I'm feeling this way, you know, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to be married to him and it doesn't mean I don't love him. It just means it was just a lot at once. And for someone who can get a little like emotionally claustrophobic, I'm feeling that right now. And I just need to find the tools to, to, to regulate my emotions a little bit better, uh, and just work towards that. And that's the, it can be a goal. You can literally focus on that rather than focus on

Starting point is 01:17:34 how suffocated you feel, you know, but recognize it first and then, and then focus on trying to build this communication with your husband. And, you know, who knows what's going to happen? You know, maybe you guys decide that it's just not is not the right fit but i i wouldn't make decisions in this moment right now given that it would be a more of a reactionary decision rather than a thoughtful decision okay no that's great i really appreciate that okay okay. Well, please keep us posted. Yeah, I will. We would love ongoing updates. Okay, yeah, I'll definitely give those to you. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:18:12 All right, thank you. Thank you. All right, bye-bye. Take care, bye-bye. Bye-bye. How's it going? Good, how are you? Good, what's your name?

Starting point is 01:18:24 My name is Lauren, and I'm 24 years old. How can we help Lauren? Well, my boyfriend drinks three to four glasses of whiskey every night and I'm wondering what I can do. Well, if it's a problem and what I can do to maybe fix it. Okay. Do you think it's a problem? Like other than that he does it, do you see that it changes his behavior? Like why do you feel it's a problem? Like other than that, he does it. Do you see that it changes his behavior? Like, why do you feel it's a problem? Well, um, many reasons, I guess. First of all,

Starting point is 01:18:52 I, this has been going on for a long time. I've expressed to him multiple times that I don't feel totally comfortable with it. Um, and he continues to do it. So that in itself, I think, is the problem. And then he's lied to me about how much he's consumed, which I think that's also a problem. And then I've just had history of addiction in my family. And so it hits close to home, I guess. The lying to you about it bothers me more than the fact that he still continues to do it, even though you've expressed his frustrations. I'm not saying it's not nothing,

Starting point is 01:19:34 but I'm just saying that's a little trickier in relationships because we have the right to have our outlets and none of us want to be in a relationship where our partners tell us we can't do something. So that's a little, that's a little trickier. Um, but I lying about it, that's, that there's really no excuse for that because the, uh, I didn't want to make you a mad is to me never been an excuse. I still have liked from my very first

Starting point is 01:20:05 girlfriend i feel very strongly about that you know because i was always like well i didn't want to make you mad i'm like i have a right to be mad um but um does it change his behavior like so as far as the drinking specifically and you know the fact that you have addiction your family you're sensitive to it how is he with three to four glasses of whiskey in his system every night i mean is he like noticeably drunk he i can definitely tell when he's buzzed but he doesn't think i can tell like he sl his words. He doesn't talk as straight through. He stays up way later. So we live together. So I feel like we don't get as much quality time in the evenings when he's just drinking and watching TV by himself.

Starting point is 01:21:00 Okay. And that's kind of where the line comes from too. Do you think he has a drinking problem i don't think he's an alcoholic but i also feel like it's not a good place to start when you're 26 years old you know what i mean i mean i'm not certainly an expert on those things but i you know on those things but i you know i i i smoke weed every night you know yeah and um and i you know on a personal level it's just like i know it affects your brain and weirdly enough now that i got engaged i'm like i really want to take care of myself and taking care of myself has always mattered to me but i haven't had a lot of vices in my life i

Starting point is 01:21:44 didn't do anything and i was you know i drank in my 20s i always hated you know i never really liked getting drunk and so i do i do like relaxing at the end of the night and you know every once in a while and i you know i'm a little stone i was fucking rambling and like nally where all our eyes but it's like not an issue or anything like that but it's nice to have that outlet um yeah what was I where was I going with this um but it was more it's like I guess what I'm saying it's just like there's there's it bothers you out of principle or it actually his behavior is affecting the relationship And I guess I also brought it up because despite, you know, me thinking about my health and knowing that like, yeah, like it's a fairly, you know, um, safe drug, uh, and ha and one that has maybe less side effects than others

Starting point is 01:22:39 and things like that. And, uh, it, it doesn't like, I fine and like i wake up very productive and work out and and i don't do a lot of it but at the same time like you know they're you know nally and i've had conversations about like you know i don't like that i do it every night or things like that and i do care about her input and and and the fact that like if he's drinking three to four a night by himself, is there a way that would he be willing to slow it down? Yeah, because I could... I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out how could you guys find the balance? Because I'm not an expert and I don't...

Starting point is 01:23:23 Four a night is a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot of booze, you know? Um, you know, one drink and like one drink a night is like fine, but like, it's, it's not healthy. Like alcohol is a terrible drug. It's like really harmful.

Starting point is 01:23:40 Yeah. And I don't, that's kind of where I stand because I don't want to be controlling. I don't want to tell him what to do. I don't want to be, you know, his mom and I don't really care that he drinks. I mean, I drink. Do I drink every single night or to the extent that he does? No, but I'm not going to sit here and say that I don't ever have a glass of wine after work, you know, or I don't ever go out to the bar on a weeknight occasionally because I do, you know, but I think for me, it's just the lack of trust because of how long it has gone on. You know? So, yeah, it sounds like the, so the lying, not great. That's, that, that's affected the trust he's had with you. But it also maybe it's not like i if i were you

Starting point is 01:24:26 i can understand the frustration about it's not that he does it it's just that like it's every night and no matter what like he doesn't seem to be willing to make any exceptions because it was like hey babe if he if he was like babe all right listen it's, I need to unwind, whatever. And I really, this helps me. But like, yeah, I need, I definitely like fours a lot. I need to tone it down and maybe I'll pick my, like if he showed an attempt to like reduce how much he drank, my guess is that would go a long way. Yeah, and he has before

Starting point is 01:25:01 because we've had the same conversations for like two years almost almost where we have the conversation and then he slows it down. And then like two weeks later, it picks back up again. And then we have the same conversation and then he lies about something, you know, about him drinking. And then we're just back to the same old thing. And so that's where lack of trust comes in. And I almost feel like he's not respecting the way i feel about it or he does for a week but yeah i'm curious and i also grew up in a family with addiction so i just want to like throw a lot of empathy your way because it

Starting point is 01:25:37 is like so torturous and i i think like in my experience there's this like constant monitoring and like really kind of like taking on. You're like hyper vigilant and like you can notice like even the subtlest like slur, like if someone's pupils are dilate, like it's a really it kind of creates this condition within your brain where everything is super pronounced and obvious. And I know it can be also really hard to talk about. I for me, it was so hard to talk about because it felt like I was violating privacy of this family member who I loved and feel very loyal to. But I'm curious if you have ever spoken to him about your experience growing up with it. And if so, like what those conversations have looked like. Yeah. When it first started bothering me, I decided to open up to him about it and how it impacted me and what I all went through.

Starting point is 01:26:27 And ultimately, I'm thankful, you know, for rehab and those kinds of things and the situation that happened because of where my family is at now. But I needed him to know what happened to me for him to understand where I'm coming from that I'm not just trying to be like a controlling girlfriend I just am very hyper aware and and lying really triggers it yeah man like I again I don't know like I don't know how they define alcoholic or but like four drinks a night seems like a lot especially if it's like where like when you heard that what are what were your thoughts like how would like a substance abuse expert i know we're not but if you had to guess yeah like if you like within the dsm like the psychology manual there's there's a bunch of different factors like so there's like the amount i think for women it's

Starting point is 01:27:23 like three or more glasses or four or more and for men four or more is considered like weight wise because um but it's also about like how much money are you spending are you lying um to friends or family about it like are you drinking more and more to receive the same effect so a lot of it is kind of contextualized um and so i think so there's some potential red flags here maybe what I guess you might be feeling and please tell me if this is accurate or not is like it's not

Starting point is 01:27:53 necessarily like red alert we're off the cliff right now but it feels like we're like too close to the edge for your own comfort where it's like this isn't necessarily the end of the world but it feels like one step further would be really upsetting and really triggering and like not a very like manageable circumstance for you to be in a relationship yeah and i know i shouldn't think so far in the future but i think about if he never changed and we got married and we had kids like

Starting point is 01:28:22 would i want my kids to see this every night and i i don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about that stuff yeah yeah i think they're just those are tough questions we have to ask ourself you're how long you've been dating two years two years you've been dating this guy for two years you're an adult person like you wouldn't be dating if you didn't see a future with him like it's you it's important to ask yourself those questions. And those are fair questions because that matters, you know? Like the households we grow up in and, you know, whether we, you know, it matters.

Starting point is 01:29:00 And so you're not, I wouldn't, I guess all I'm saying is I wouldn't feel any guilt for thinking about that or feeling paranoid or you're not great you know like those are normal and acceptable questions to ask and he's giving you justifiable reasons to have these concerns the lying being the first you know the biggest one because it's like why did lie, like he, like lying to you, uh, wasn't as important as having a drink. That matters, you know? And I, that would, so if you play that forward, like, you know, when you get married and have kids, stresses don't reduce, they increase. A hundred percent. Yeah. Um, and so we need positive outlets to deal with our stress and we need to be able to manage you know if we have vices uh we need to know that we can manage them and do it safely and and yeah these are these are tough questions um

Starting point is 01:30:02 yeah when we were i think we were talking about this at some point when i was dating someone and i like wasn't sure about their drinking habits and i think one thing you said that really resonated with me that maybe applies here is that kind of framing it from a you're doing something wrong or like anything that could be construed as judgmental and kind of reframing it as like I have sensitivities in this area like you know there's some people for whom like you they could date someone who drinks four glasses of whiskey a night no big deal their parents had a bottle of wine every night it doesn't you know they have no addiction in their family it doesn't stir anything up like it's not

Starting point is 01:30:35 an issue for them but like like for you given your personal history like this is something that impacts you deeply and so making sure that you frame it in a way of not like you you're wrong and bad and like that shame response that like only fuels the cycle of needing a release and it seems like this is his release right now yeah but of like uh just like a like hey like can you like not instead of like you're a bad guy but like can you be the hero like can you accommodate me a little bit in this way and maybe if you know framing it in that way doesn't trigger the shame defensiveness that yeah it's it's a version of asking for help which is a very kind of um disarming uh approach to conflict you know people love to help people people love to be hero and uh it's a fun manipulation tactic uh no but i mean it's yeah like it's it's amazing how

Starting point is 01:31:31 many people don't like to ask for help uh but i especially men but i uh i i don't subscribe to that because it gets people to do what you want them to do. But yeah, to Amanda's point, yeah, go ahead. Don't you think it's a problem that we've had reoccurring conversations about it? Like that's the part that gets me the most. Like what am I not saying to him or what can I voice differently? Or at what point do I just, do I need to take it more seriously that things aren't changing, I guess?

Starting point is 01:32:10 So I might I'm not remembering the exact statistic, but they did a study on Vietnam War veterans who when they were in Vietnam were using heroin. And we I think we all culturally like heroin is like I consider it the most addictive substance on earth. And there was something like when they left Vietnam and came back to their life in the U.S., it was like something like 80 to 90 percent of them stayed sober. And it was because they were in a completely different environment. And so I think what like a different self-help book that I read spoke about, you know, goal setting is important, but like people, there are people who have goals and achieve them and people who have goals who don't achieve them.

Starting point is 01:32:49 Like it is not the goal that determines success. It's the systems in place. And so I think it's being like, it's not, and of course, like, you know, you want it to be enough for him to hear you and understand where you're coming from and to have empathy and want to help in that way where, you know, there is a clear way

Starting point is 01:33:04 that he could help you in changing his behavior I think maybe it's looking at more like ways to change the environment slightly like I don't know if maybe you guys like go out to a setting where there's not alcohol one night a week or yeah like take take him like axe throwing or something where you probably shouldn't have four glasses beforehand anyways yeah or like a pottery class our axe throwing is inside of like a bar so oh no yeah somewhere else but i think maybe seeing like what like maybe talking to him and being like hey like i know that i know habits are like habits are a bitch to break like you know no judgment but like do you think like i don't know like asking him if he's notices that there are certain things like that kind of the point in the night when he decides he wants to drink and like just kind of maybe looking at ways that you might be able to change like his environment.

Starting point is 01:33:52 Because it's like it's hard to change a habit, even one that's not with an addictive substance. kind of that point of the things amanda brought up earlier like on some level you're you're gonna have you're asking him or gonna have to continue to ask him to be mindful about his drinking habits and make some adjustments you know you don't know exactly what those adjustments need to be but what you want and what it seems to be fair is that you need to you want him to make it a priority to make some adjustments. And maybe through couples counseling or whatever. And how he responds to that request, to me, is what's really going to determine whether this is a relationship for you or not. Because does he continue to lie?

Starting point is 01:34:39 That might lead you down a path of maybe there's a bigger problem than we realize. Does he get defensive about it? lead you down a path of, you know, maybe there's a bigger problem than we realize, you know, is he gets to, does he get defensive about it? You know, because if, if he is, does it, if he has a substance abuse problem or alcoholic, my guess is, you know, he will get very defensive versus someone who could be like, you know what? Like I said, like I smoke weed. I've been smoking weed almost every night for the better part of a year, you know, but I'm also like, then I think about it. It's like, I don't like that. I do that, you know, and I know I then i think about it's like i don't like that i do that you know and i know i'm not addicted to it and i can you know there's been nights where i don't do it but it's just more like just helps me relax and there's really no like immediate side effects

Starting point is 01:35:16 i know there's long-term like risks and side effects and especially when it comes to brain and it doesn't affect our relationship it doesn't upset natalie but i personally don't like it and i'm just like i should probably make some adjustments. But, you know, if I was addicted to it, if I had a substantive problem, my guess is I'd be a lot more defensive about it and resistant. And I would be like, oh, I don't need to do that. I don't care. And like, I can recognize it's like, it's maybe not the healthiest habit and I probably

Starting point is 01:35:40 need to make some changes. And I think how he responds to you just suggesting that he makes some adjustments is going to go a long way. Does that make sense? If you're just like, hey, babe, this is sensitive to me. I've grew up in a family. I've dealt with this with my family. I'm not asking you to stop drinking, but I'm just asking you to like make some adjustments adjustments and stay consistent to it and i'm asking you to never ever lie to me about it and and if he can do that then i think it's manageable if he can't do that then i think you gotta start asking yourself some tough questions is is this something that you're willing to be in if he's not willing to make some drastic

Starting point is 01:36:22 changes because i think if he's not then then i think there's maybe some bigger red flags and we hope to believe yeah i also just think like in my experience like in a family with addiction like it is oh my it's like hell and it is torturous and you're trapped there like especially being a child like you have no autonomy and you are just like in this system that is like wreaksaks havoc on like your emotional wellbeing. And it's, and you never know when it's going to stop. You never know when it's going to, you know? And so I think, I don't know, something that my therapist has said to me is like, you, like you have the chance to make your own family and nobody's perfect. So it's about finding

Starting point is 01:37:03 the people whose imperfections are ones that are bearable to you and this one might be familiar to you but i don't think it's bearable yeah and and also to that point you got to find people who are willing to you know work on it with you and and try to make adjustments based off of each other's needs and if he's not willing to make adjustments then that's a problem you know yeah and you need to be able to trust his ability to regulate his his habits yeah yeah and right now you don't you don't trust his ability to do that have you used used ultimatum-ish, like has ultimatum-ish language ever come up when you've been talking to him about this? So actually about two weeks ago, the last time it happened and I brought it up, I was talking to my best friend about it. And she asked me if she were in my shoes, what would I tell her to do? And it made me think a lot because normally I give her way better advice than I tend to listen to myself.

Starting point is 01:38:16 Welcome to the club. Tell myself to do. Yeah. So and then I thought, well, I wonder what Nick would tell me to do. Yeah. So and then I thought, well, I wonder what Nick would tell me to do. And I thought about how you always talk about boundaries and, you know, establishing boundaries. And so I tried to take that approach as far as I need to come up with what are my boundaries and what am I willing to waver on and communicate those boundaries to him. Yeah, that's kind of that's the approach that i took um but i think i'm just worried that i will continue to waiver on those boundaries

Starting point is 01:38:52 i guess well gotta work on that's something you want to work on you know yeah and to amanda's point i mean you're only 24 and and whatever love you have for your boyfriend, there's just not one person. I don't believe there's one person for anyone. And you're only 24 and as much love as you might have for him, if he continues to show an unwillingness to make adjustments and if you continue to feel like you can't trust him

Starting point is 01:39:24 with regards to these habits, it's not going to get better it's going to get worse and when you start having a family with him you know you're a lot more stuck than you are now um and and you can get divorced but you can't un you know you can't stop your kids from having a father. I mean, you can certainly stop them from being in his life, but I don't think right now as someone who, I mean, I'm sorry, do you want kids? Yes, I do. Okay, so someone who wants kids, I'm guessing when you imagine, what you imagine for your kids is not having a father in their life if it got to that point, you know? So, you know, and, and you're in a position right now where you, um, you can potentially control that outcome. So don't take that for granted. Um, and as, as, as tough as a

Starting point is 01:40:19 decision you might have, it's just better to find out now and set those boundaries and see if he's willing to make those adjustments. Because if not, then it's only going to get much, much worse. So when you are having a hard time enforcing those boundaries, just remind yourself you're doing it for future you, you're doing it for your future kids. And hopefully that will make it a little easier. Keep us posted. I will. We'd love an update. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

Starting point is 01:40:51 It sucks. I know. Some of these are one of the calls where it's just like, you know, it's easier when I'm like, yeah, clear answer. He sucks. Whatever. This is far more nuanced and a little more complicated. And I know there's, you know, but just think of future you and protect her and have some empathy for her. Sounds good.

Starting point is 01:41:14 I will do that. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Thanks. It sounds like you have amazing friends. But if you ever need someone to vent to, slide in my DMs.

Starting point is 01:41:22 I understand that addiction can just be so hard to navigate. And i just have so much empathy for all the things that you're dealing with and like nick said yeah you really do just like deserve the best and deserve your happiness and so please let us know how it's going that is so nice i definitely will thank you guys so much all right take care all right bye bye thanks for. Don't forget to join us for the premiere of The Bachelor Recap with Ariana Maddox and Going Deeper. Brad Goreski joins us on Thursday. Rate, subscribe, review. See you tomorrow. Thank you.

The Viall Files - E530 Ask Nick - F*cking My Friend’s Situationship

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