The Viall Files - E537 Ask Nick - There’s No Medal For Staying Friends

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss Amanda’s trip to Vegas, Ali matching with a British man on Hinge, and we Yay-SMR a listener who ended a 10 year long situationship. Finally, we have our most recent Breakup Song of the Week submission. Our first caller is debating pursuing the woman her ex girlfriend cheated on her with. Do they have a connection, or is the instinct out of spite? Our next caller has a long distance boyfriend that has a lot of opinions and criticisms of the outfits she wears. We discuss that it might be less about the outfits, and more about a lack of trust in their relationship. Our final caller is debating how to handle running into her fitness coach now that their relationship has ended. Should she leave her gym, or try to muscle through?  “There’s no medal for being friends with someone you have feelings for.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com Support a Local Bookstore: https://bookshop.org/books/don-t-text-your-ex-happy-birthday-and-other-advice-on-love-sex-and-dating-9798212185622/9781419755491 If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Betterhelp: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL and get on your way to being your best self with 10% off your first month.  Grammarly: The right tone can move any project forward when you get it just right with Grammarly. Go to http://www.grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestions. ZocDoc: Find and book a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. Go to http://www.Zocdoc.com/VIALL and download the Zocdoc app for FREE.  Article Furniture: Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit http://article.com/VIALL and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog 

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files ask nick edition i'm nick joined by allyie and Amanda. Sup, shouties. Okay. Every week you need to say something just as awkward and out of pocket as that. I love Allie's out of pocket comments. Yeah, no. They sort of- It's a value add.

Yeah, because it's like there's some situations where you want to go ungrounded. I would argue intro podcast, you want to go ungrounded. I would argue, intro of podcast, you want to go ungrounded. Yeah. And then they unground us. Shorty. But speaking of ungrounded places, I was in Vegas. Yeah, she was. For two nights, two nights only, perfect amount of time.

For your birthday. Yeah, it was. You'll have had your birthday. Yes. Okay, so when you're listening to this. Thank you. My birthday was on Friday. But I went, so my two best friends from college, it's really fun because one of our birthdays is a week before mine.

The other one is like eight days after mine. And so it's this really fun like birthday festival. We live together most years. And so it was like always like we'd have like just like two weeks of like party time, like just like celebration and friendship. So we planned a little Vegas trip because it had been a really long time since we've seen each other. It was so fun. And I also I had a a moment i think i kind of went ask nick on

their ass at the blackjack table because so i had i your friends no on random strangers on a key like was a dealer pressuring him to hit them and you're like oh respect your boundaries well so okay are you a fuck boy so what it was is like so i i made the mistake of playing blackjacks on the machines which they're rigged and after i told people that i was like i really i feel like they were rigged everyone's like oh yeah they're rigged i was like fuck i lost most of the money that i'd allocated to spend i sold a fancy headboard on facebook marketplace i'd been meaning to get rid of for a while so i was like this is my gambling money okay so i went in with a budget and i and so i i lost a lot of that budget

so i was like you know what i'm just gonna i don't want to like blow through this in the night so i'm gonna go like sit at the tables you guys make real money now anyway rent is shockingly expensive no i know la is expensive yeah it's like i do be choosing to spend a lot of money on improv every week and that's that's a personal choice um but i it was plus it was a headboard that needed to go and it was serendipitous but i was at the blackjack table i could not afford the minimum bet and i honestly i get secondhand excitement like just watching people gamble so i like join these two people like sitting there shout out to denise from missouri and hell yeah a doctor i don't know where he's from but keith and i are like blabbing it up and i think and i make sure

to slip in early that i've got a boyfriend because i was like i know the implications of like talking to people you know like this denise like this like you thought they might be swingers well no no they did not know each other so we were the three musketeers so you thought there was like a we just jumped so far she was implying that like she was talking to a with keith only with denise was a well-behaved woman in her 50s or 60s who was not trying to try anything with me but keith you know i was like sitting next to him you know it was really nice like chatting but i made sure to slip in really early that I had a boyfriend. And then there were a few times Denise and Keith doing a great job. They're like, oh, you're my good luck charm, like all that stuff.

And then Keith was kind of like, he was probing, you know, he was kind of like flirting a little bit. And I was like, Keith, like, I don't know what you think is going to happen. Like, it wasn't so overt that he was like outright, but I was just of like you know like trying to shut it down but it wasn't in a way that was making me uncomfortable but then he was like so you know come on like you know like fun night in Vegas plans and then I just like got really somber and I was like I think once you've been cheated on you like because I think he asked me like he was like oh like would you ever like have a fun night in Vegas like that was the most overt it got and that's when I like really shut it down. I was like, once you've been cheated on, I think you realize that like the emotional

havoc it causes and it becomes so incredibly unappealing. There's just like a moment of like silence at this blackjack table. People are like, Keith is done. Keith leaves. Keith's like, my boner's dead. I was like, I still think I'm working to rebuild trust issues from cheating. It's at like 3 a.m. in i said this but then denise denise is like denise just like nodded cool hang bro yeah i was being an absolute delight but then i did leave shortly it's hard to keep the vibes going after that but I did want to say like this

trip because it was the first time I'd gotten to hang out with these like college friends like the first time we'd gone on a trip together like I'd seen both of them individually while I was like one of them lives nearby me one of them's in New York etc but I realized I was like there's something so special about college friends that I think also applies to love where it's like these are the first people who teach you that like you can be loved and cared for like the way you're the people who have been surrounded you since day one love and care for you and obviously it's different you don't have that same shared personal history they don't know your parents as well but i was like it is so beautiful because like college friends show you that it is

possible to find friendships in life that are like so full of like nurturing and I was thinking about that and I was like a fucking ode to second love like we talk so much about first love and about how like exciting and special and romanticized it is but like second loves are so like the first time you learn that like that person doesn't have a monopoly on love that's amazing yeah man so that's my little tirade also that's very cute i went to olive garden what are you nick what are you thinking about uh no i was just thinking about what you were saying yeah well college friends high school friends i think our first wave of friendships that last you know into adulthood you know right because it is that is like what

you're trying to say they kind of they become more closely linked to like family than like friends in a sense because they've been with you through a lot of different things. But in a way, I feel like maybe Amanda's point is like, these are the first people that you met as friends as more of an adult.

So it's like not tied with, oh, we grew up together. Or your community. Oh, we went to the same grade school. Yeah. Sure, okay. Yeah, and like starting from zero. It's a chosen family.

But then in that way, they do also then become like family because you starting from zero it's a chosen family but then in that way they do also then become like family because you start from zero in that place and then the people that like show up for you consistently and take care of you just have this like really unique like shared experience of like when you were like really scrambling and you could kind of start from zero and decide what you want your personality to be etc like they were the ones who were like there with you through it the people who were there for you through college. College is a crazy...

The highs and lows. They've seen some shit. Yeah. Then she went to Olive Garden. I went to Olive Garden for the first time. This is a huge moment in my life. I waited tables there in college. Oh, my God.

Oh, also, shout out to Maria at the Las Vegas Olive Garden. My God. Keith, Denise, Maria. Why? Because, okay, also also if i were single i would have pursued maria oh why do you have an olive garden why wouldn't you like we get it you make real money excuse me it's disgusting what do you mean it was a crisp salad i did i did the salad those salads fuck their salads fuck i did the unlimited soup salad and breadsticks.

I didn't even go for pasta. And it was everything I needed. Their salads are good. And Maria, if you're listening to this, she did an amazing job. You just talked about cheating. No, I know. But I'm just saying she's a great person.

You can say it. But if Maria, if you're listening to this. Maria, if you're listening to this, keep doing you you're listening to this, keep doing you because she was so, like she just had really good energy and was really kind in a way that came off as like so authentic and not too much, which is hard to pull off in the service industry. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy is a scary, very scary thing for a lot of people. And I think sometimes it's scariest the most for, in some cases, people who might need it the most. It can be very terrifying to address those issues. And you got to find someone. It's like, it seems like a whole ordeal. And the best thing about BetterHelp is

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You're tired of being the person who feels like a Debbie Donner around their friends. And you don't want to bring the vibe down, but you really need an outlet. There is nothing worse than that. Sometimes it's like you can't fight it. I remember being on a girl's trip and was just at my lowest of lows. And they were like, come on, Allie. Perk up. Cheer up.

It's vacation. And I was like, I wish I could flip my brain off I was having fun until you asked me why I was not yeah there's nothing worse than people telling you to have fun yeah or you're like great thank you so much get out of your head you know and things like that but you could literally be on vacation with your girls and feel like I just need to talk to someone And you can go into the bathroom at the hotel, get on your phone, and you could be getting a therapy session in moments. It's definitely possible with BetterHelp. So if you've ever thought about it, considered it, wondered, we just highly recommend. So if you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Visit BetterHelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash V-I-A-L-L today to get 10% off your first month. That's

betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Love a good semicolon. I've always wanted to know how to use a semicolon. No idea. Truly no idea. You know what the good news is? I don't need to know anymore because I got Grammarly. Grammarly is helping people sound smarter, be smarter, and be more efficient because no longer, if you're someone like me, maybe you're dyslexic, and it doesn't matter how many times you proofread, you never are going to feel like you get it right. Well, now Grammarly is stepping in and helping people fix their grammar, fix their tone. In addition to helping you with those objectively correct, like,

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Go to grammarly.com slash tone to download and learn more about Grammarly's premium advanced tone suggestions. That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y.com slash tone. Allie, how are you? You know, thriving, not doing too much. I feel like I encountered you and Natalie like a few days in a row in both times.

I encountered. Natalie was like, what are you up to tonight? Or like, where are you headed? And I was like, nowhere. She's like, what are you up to this weekend? I was like what are you up to tonight or like where are you headed and I was like nowhere like she's like what are you up to this weekend I was like nothing like just we're surviving I did match with a potential British fuck boy on hinge so we'll see how that goes I just feel like he knows like he had like you know you can do the voice things like he purposely did a voice one and it was like how do do you pronounce my name? And his name is Christopher.

And he was like, I'm going to level with you. Play it. Yeah. I don't have a hard name to pronounce, but I just wanted you to hear my British accent. I might be different than what you normally like, but tell me. How's your voice sound? Ali, you should send him a voice where it's like, hello, my name's Ali. Hello, I'm Ali.

Like the worst accent you can possibly do have you seen just go with it like the little bailey madison character who does the whole thing in a british accident and she goes she goes can i do an accent adam sandler goes can i hear it and she goes hello and he goes no that's you okay he laughed fuck boy giggle my name is very easy to pronounce um i just wanted to um say something in my english accent because uh i think that it sounds quite good uh maybe a bit different to what you're used to. Let me know what your voice sounds like. What if I was like, hello. Hello.

Hello, Christopher. You should start really obnoxious, bad accent, and then get into a really good accent, and then finish with your American. Okay, great. Just do a wheel of music. So you haven't responded? No, well, okay, so we matched.

What's he look like? He's good looking and he's six foot one. Yeah. Not that height is the only determinant. He's six foot one, good work. Shout out to Short Kings. Good work, he's six foot one. You're gonna respond, yeah.

Well, so we matched and then I didn't send, I don't like to send the first message. So we matched. And then he said, let's go on an adventure. And then I said, where to? And he hasn't responded yet. I think you should, this is a mischievous pitch that it would not resolve. I think you should harass and be like, my bags are packed.

I'm at LAX, which terminal? Where the hell are you? International. Ready bags are packed. I'm at LAX. Which terminal? Where the hell are you? Ready for our honeymoon. I'm in love. You told me to start saying I love you sooner. So maybe it'll be to Christopher. You should send him a voicemail that's like, how do you pronounce my name? I love you.

So yeah, we'll see. But I was thinking, I was like, maybe how this is really bad. So yeah, we'll see. But I was thinking, I was like, maybe how, this is really bad, but if you just started flirting with a bunch of people on Hinge approximately two weeks before Valentine's Day, how many people do you think you could get

to send you like flowers? If your goal is flowers? Yeah. Probably one, two. I love flowers. Would you not feel guilty? Even from anyone? Kind of, yeah.

Why would you feel guilty? Sorry, I feel like this sounds really obnoxious. I've been in a situation where I've had more than one valentine and i felt guilty i've never even had one i think you just say like i i really just want to get flowers for valentine's day here's my like here's my address that's concerning give him give him the office drop him off at the office listen it'd really make my day if you sent me flowers. I mean, if your goal is to get flowers, I think you could do it. What if I changed my hinge profile to say that? Like, had one of the blurbs.

Yeah. One thing about me. All I really want is flowers on Valentine's Day. Yeah. We don't need to be in a relationship. My simple pleasure, flowers on Valentine's Day. Yeah. And again, you're just upfront contract.

You're just like, I just want the flowers. Yeah. I owe you nothing. Yeah. But if you're willing upfront contract. You're just like, I just want the flowers. Like, yeah, I owe you nothing. Yeah. But if you're willing to do something nice for me. So this I just had a flashback freshman year of college. Speaking of college friends, my freshman year of college was or around Valentine's Day of freshman year was big little week, which is when you don't know who your big is. But they like will decorate your room and like send you things. It is the most thoughtful gifts you will ever receive.

And Valentine's Day was like that Friday of Big Little Week. And she knew that I loved The Bachelor. And so she arranged like a bachelor date. So the night before Thursday night, this guy in a suit pretended to be Chris Harrison, met me at my dorm and was like handed me a date card and was like, how are you feeling? Da da da da da. And then like the first date card led me to the are you feeling da da da da da and then like the first date card led me to the student center where a guy was waiting with a rose and then i had like

another one like there was like three date cards and three different bachelors that like met me with a rose and then at the end i was supposed to like pick one of them that's so fun yeah okay i had my own bachelorette experience i have a question which is how often like i feel like with british man it's like you're excited question, which is how often, like I feel like with British man, it's like you're excited about him on Hinge. How often would you say you match with someone and you're like, okay, I'm excited. I'll get excited easily.

It'll die faster. Okay. Yeah. And does it tend to die at like the messaging phase? Ah, okay. Yeah. Like when they say anything. Immediately.

Okay. But for anybody listening who's like, and listen i think there's so much value in palentine's day and galentine's day and meet myself in island time's day but i also think if you are someone who knows right now that you would really love to have a valentine's day situation hit the apps now you gotta set yourself up do some swipe marathons it's coming a little proactive get out there you know even if you fatigue yourself you can always take a break post valentine's day absolutely a fun story get out there have some fun and in the spirit of celebrating love i am going to break up song of the week well first i am going to bombard you with yay smr

so this is something we it's like so exciting whenever we hear from people who are like making choices that are serving them and are saying that the show is helpful. So I just wanted to read one of those little messages. And then we can celebrate them. Well, I was gonna read it in a normal voice then we congratulate them.

Do you want the whole thing in ASMR? Okay. The puppet of Google. Hi, Nick. I made that. I think you have to go a little louder. I think it's like a loud whisper. Sorry.

Absolutely heinous. Nick, Amanda, and Ellie, love your show love the recap love it i said louder i didn't i didn't tell you to put a that's how asmr people do it love the recap that's good that's good yeah i don't what's that's really good okay do you want me to do it like? Yeah, I just wanted But I did my voice you're doing a voice Just do your voice in ASMR. I am NOT a great whisperer just

Why can't you just wanted to thank you for filling out? For filling why you sound like you're having an orgasm right now. That is not what I sound like when I'm having an orgasm. You're like quivering. You're like. You think I'm like, I'm coming. No. Mom, I want to come home.

I'm scared. Do you want me to give it a go? Yeah. Love your show. Love the recaps. Love it all. Just wanted to thank you for filling in the days that I deliver with fun and interesting topics

and conversations. I'm a 58-year-old woman, and I love The Bachelor. Been watching since Ben Flanagan's season. I was in a situationship with a married man for 10 years. 10 years. Yikes. We were pretty much over

these last few years, but we would still text and talk and sometimes get together. And he would send me random happy birthday, merry Christmas, et cetera texts, which would quite honestly

left me feeling down, empty, and resentful. Listening to your show gave me the courage to end it completely. I called him one day after our last conversation, wished him well,

and asked him not to call or text anymore. He did a couple more times, but I didn't respond. Haven't heard from him in a while. I'm finally free and won't be making those same mistakes again I wish there was a bachelor for people my age who live a quiet life still look and feel good and have a personality but just don't date much Congrats on all your happiness and

success a loyal fan can you say Can you say just quickly, if you cannot afford your medication, AstraZeneca may be able to help. If you can't afford your medication, AstraZeneca may help. No more, more, more, more married, married men. Good job.

How was that? We have to congratulate now at ASMR. Congratulations, Kathleen. You're getting the love you deserve. This is a super weird segment. Yeah. Anyways, thanks for the kind note. And good job.

I hate that you were dating a married man for 10 years. Don't love that. But it's over now. It's over now. I bet you have some apologizing to do to people just a thought breakups on the week before we get to our callers yeah let's hit them with a quick breakup song of the week somebody that i used to know by goy goyte and kimbra ah yes looks just like katie perry it's crazy and this person said i want to highlight quote now and then i

think about think of all the time you screwed me over, but had me believing it was something that I'd done. So I am actually going through a very difficult breakup right now. My ex and I broke up about two months ago. We were kind of on good terms, but with lots of resentments. We had no communication for one month and started talking again three weeks ago. It was good to reconnect again. We thought we could be in each other's lives somehow. As we both said, we still cared about each other and had a special bond. But this week, shit hit the fan. He had a fight and all the resentments came back and it hurt so bad that I feel I gave to start the work that I feel I have. I have to start the work that i feel i have she means have i have to start the work of getting

it over all over again he did something very bad to me and blamed it on the feelings and traumas he had from our failed relationship so yeah i regret not having kept him out of my life when i could i need to move on now so shout out and what's the song again uh somebody that i used to know do you know that song i really guys i'm trying i'm trying to connect the dots i really am now and then I think of... It's a good song. But you didn't have to cut me off. Oh, there we go.

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Whoop, whoop. Our show all about dating people's stories, all those little kind of idiosyncrasies of dating. It's been a fun three weeks leading up to this one. Do not miss it. It's 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. If you have an Apple iPhone, you can download it. Download the AMP app in the Apple iPhone app store. But we also had a listener email us and they found a hack for if you don't have an iPhone, you can go to the AMP website.

So it's on AMP, O-N-A-M-P dot com. And while you can't necessarily call in because you're not on the app, you can still listen to the show live. Do not miss out. All about dating. Bachelor recap tomorrow. Going deeper on Thursday. You do not want to miss this week. And we have something i'm just

going to tease it right now we have a very special going deeper episode it's real good juice juice tea tea if you are a reality tv fan uh it is it's on par with you know like a victoria and greg type of correct story that hasn't been really an interview that has not yet been conducted that the people want to know about. I'd say we got the exclusive. We got the exclusive. We definitely got it. And I'd say it because we did.

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Let's get to our callers. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name's Jenny and I'm 30 years old. How can we help, Jenny?

So I'm considering pursuing a connection that I made with the woman that my ex-girlfriend cheated on me with. Okay. Tell me about the infidelity. So it was a five-year relationship. Unfortunately, it wasn't the first instance of cheating. cheating um this particular time i noticed some signs uh just being in tune to those types of things having been cheated on before with with your ex with my ex yeah yeah so she had cheated on me um a couple of months before our wedding and I found out about three weeks before so that engagement ended obviously and we broke up at that time however she pursued therapy and was really committed to change so I decided to give her another chance about six months later so that was two years ago about two weeks ago how long did she stay in therapy uh she's still in therapy still in therapy but she had taken a bit of a break which was another one of the clues for me that something

might be going on gotcha and how did you find out about the first time actually one of my exes let me know because it was a friend of hers whom my ex was seeing okay yeah this time around um she had given me permission to use her laptop whenever i needed to for school purposes um so i went to use it and the password had been changed and that was odd so i texted her got the new password she kind of gave me a excuse which i didn't really believe at the time she kind of gave me a bullshit excuse, which I didn't really believe at the time. So I decided to go through her emails. And I found some emails between her and another woman. And they were setting up flight dates. So at that time, I kind of knew, but I wanted to confirm everything. So I went through her phone later that day. And I couldn't find find anything but i did look up the name of the person because i had

it from the email and i was able to find this person's name as well as an area code that matched the location of the flight so i messaged her from my phone and she had no idea She was also in shock. She didn't know your partner had a girlfriend? No. No, of course not. No. She told me that they had met on a dating app just a week prior. It really had not been going on that long, thankfully. The next morning, this was late at night that we were messaging. I confronted my partner the next morning and ended the relationship what did she say i mean there's nothing to deny when you have that much

evidence right i told her you know i messaged the other girl and i know everything she was apologetic but did she ever give you what was her reasons for cheating there's really no good reason for it. No, I know. We have been having issues. She went to therapy and shit like that. So I'm wondering, oftentimes, and maybe in some cases legitimate. I think we all hope that there are people out there that can make mistakes. And some people out there have experienced trauma in the past that might, you know, impact their behavior.

That's not an excuse for any behavior. But I'm just, you know, wondering, especially the first time and her going into therapy, like what was it about that that gave you hope? Like what was, you know, it's like we found this out about this person. Okay, you're not who I thought you were or whatever. And it's like, oh, I need to get help. I need to get therapy. This, this happened to me or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you're thinking, okay, well, I guess if they're willing to get help, then they, if they can fix the glitch, so to speak, they can be the person that I loved, you know, like maybe, maybe the 90% of them that I loved or maybe the part of them I loved is 90% of them, but there's that glitch or whatever. And I guess I'm just curious what she said her

glitch was, so to speak, that caused her to make these choices. Yeah, for sure. And I wouldn't have taken her back if her reasons didn't make sense to me. And a lot of it did have to do with childhood issues, her core fear of just not being enough and being afraid to let someone really know who she actually is. And then just wanting to kind of leave before someone else has the chance to leave her. the chance to leave her so from an empathetic standpoint i could i could rationally understand why she did what she did and that's why i decided to give her another chance and i wanted to believe that she was making those changes but unfortunately she backslid yeah Yeah. I'm sorry. No, thank you. It sucks. Now, on to the situation at hand. Who is this person you're considering dating? And was that the first person they cheated on with? Like, where do they fit? Or is this this girl you emailed?

Yeah, it's the girl she emailed. So it's like this girl had no idea that the person who she was planning on meeting up with had a partner was like fully in a relationship it was like hey are you fucking my girlfriend and she was like oh my god i thought i was going to i had no idea and all of a sudden yeah and then you what you could became pent up this is love that is exactly what happened yeah so i mean we okay like i don't really this is exciting i don't have a problem with it That is exactly what happened. Yeah. So. I mean. We. Okay. Like. I don't really have. This is exciting.

I don't have a problem with it. Right? You know. Fair enough. When you first said it was like, I mean, like the person who participates in. Is there any ways? Is there any reason whatsoever for you to doubt them? You know?

Is there a chance? Okay. and does your ex confirm does your ex did your ex confirm that they had yet to meet this person yeah they hadn't met in fact my ex said she didn't actually plan on ever meeting her i don't believe that shit about that yeah yeah doesn't matter yeah um yeah i don't i think that's just like a almost uh kind of a weird fucked up serendipitous event you know yeah yeah it and i guess that's where my concerns are is like what are you that i'm what are your concerns uh i guess i'm worried about the association uh of how we met like the circumstances under which we met i'm worried that that's going to maybe cause issues potentially well i'm not even worried about that in what way i'm worried that

we like bonded over something that sure it's very like it brought you together i think um well first of all you haven't even met this person right so no i've never met there's no reason i think at this point to start you know uh worrying about how this is going to affect a relationship that doesn't exist yeah that's fair that's fair i might be looking too far into the future which i get i mean uh someone who's been hurt like you've been hurt multiple times it's very easy to want to get ahead of it and want to be proactively protected yeah exactly yeah you know like yeah you know it's just like that's how if you've been hurt in a relationship and if you've been betrayed you're you're you're constantly that's that's how that's what they steal from you.

That's how they steal that kind of sanity. And you start feeling like at your lowest moment, you're rattling your head, trying to think of every possible scenario to try to protect yourself. So I get that. But I don't see any real red flags. I see just kind of a kind of a funny

coincidence and i think if you meet and you have a nice time you know first night you'll be like you know you're kind of weird thanks for the fun you know like you don't it might not go anywhere but if it evolves if there's some excitement like you know i i just don't think the trauma bonding can be is all that. Like, it was, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just, what is she really bonding over you about?

I don't know. Maybe she's been cheated on in the past too, but a lot of people have been cheated on. So like two people who have been cheated, I don't know if that's like,

I don't think you can't date because you're afraid about trauma bonding. You know, I just think it's just more, who knows? So i think again once you start dating and if you get to know her and you like what you see you can start having you

know up front in some vulnerable conversations about some of your insecurities and fears and and potentially this relationship or last relationship sometimes it's just putting it out there like hey i'm probably overthinking this, but I just want to make sure that we are communicating about this relationship. And is it weird to you how we met at all? Do you have any concerns about that? Let's talk about it. I think a lot of times couples don't put these thoughts on the table as a potential discussion. Sometimes we're just like, we feel like we have to share our vulnerabilities and fears as it's like hey just so you know like i've been hurt before don't hurt me again you know it's just like okay

you know like some but more it's just like you have to say hey this happened to me can we talk about it can we can i open up to you can you let me share thoughts and feelings or fears that I've had? And then you see how they respond, you know, and you see how nurturing they are. But I don't really see an issue here. Do you feel like, obviously in the wake of something that is like so difficult to navigate and so challenging, do you feel like, how are you feeling in terms of like healing your heart? And if you feel like open to a new relationship?

That's a good question. How long, when did this last infidelity happen? Like two weeks ago, which is part of my concern is like, I'm worried that I need to give it more time. Probably. Yeah. You're definitely not healed.

Chances are you're not healed. Right. Have you been getting therapy? Yeah. I have a therapy appointment right after this. Good for you let me know if your therapist disagrees with anything we said yeah i i uh i think there'd be something to be said about you uh keeping in touch but slowing things down i mean again

she's a plane right away it sounds like so no no real urgency here and like as it stands right now i did cut off the communication with her um for the reasons that i i gave you and is there a part of you that is pursuing this out of spite or revenge no i don't think i'm capable of being that spiteful no why not yeah it's a great you it's an amazing fuck you again i i love it it is an amazing fuck it sounds like a a nice yeah nothing matters more to me than character you know i i think we live in a world and i that sadly i think nowadays we care more about what people believe or what we agree with and and rather than what people's character is. And I think we give too many people a pass on,

on, on low character moments just because we feel like they're aligned with our beliefs and shit like that. And so I love that you, you seem like your character matters to you, but you're allowed to be angry and you're allowed to be hurt and you're allowed to feel thoughts of wanting revenge and and shit like that uh i'm definitely angry and i think it's okay to acknowledge you

know rather than uh say that you're like not capable of of because like any like if you're if you don't want if you're not even at least feeling feelings of revenge, you know what I'm saying? That's the thing about character. We're all human beings. Absolutely. We all feel feelings. The difference between someone who is so hurt by someone that they want to hurt them back,

that's just a normal feeling. The difference between people with like, you know, regulated emotions, higher character, morals, like not a react is the difference between someone who actually gives into those impulses and someone with a higher character, like your, your, your ex, whatever feelings that drove to do this, you know, again, like I doubt that you haven't been attracted to other women., again, I doubt that you haven't been attracted to other women. I doubt that you haven't been tempted at times or at least glanced at someone and thought, or I doubt you haven't had a moment

or an interaction with someone that thought, I felt a little chemistry there. But the difference between you and her is that you're just like, nah, I'm choosing to be in this relationship. And she was like, I'm gonna explore this because my own selfish immediate needs trump anything else. I'm just here to say, it's like, okay, to allow yourself to feel whatever it is you feel, how you process those feelings, that's going to separate you from other people.

But it's okay to feel that and it's okay to say i want revenge or acknowledge the anger and and you know you're only human so yeah that's good to hear thank you yeah i'm definitely angry but i also think and i don't know if this is something that like resonates with you but in my experience being cheated on in the past i did not break up with this person when they cheated on in the past I did not break up with this person when they cheated on me we stayed together a bit longer and when we did finally break up granted it wasn't because of infidelity or cheating there was almost this sense of relief because even though I was all in on the relationship and trying to make it work and

wanted to stay and be there there was also that part of me that's like but you've been burned and are you like leaving yourself in the fire to get burned again and so I think that's also something that I think can add a whole nother dimension to this like healing is like on one hand there's this relief but then there's also still this intense pain and so I just think there's like a ton of different things to sort through here and I just like want to validate that like all of them are like fully welcome thank you yeah that 100 resonates with me like i even told my therapist like i'm not even sad i'm just relieved almost like i i definitely was angry but and still am but i do feel that really the truth can really set you free but i i'd be willing to bet that i mean it's only been two weeks you know tomorrow you could wake up and you could be

feeling a feeling that you weren't expecting you know yeah yeah i would imagine feelings would come in and not like a roller coaster you know and things like that you know the stages of grief or whatever sadness anger you know all those all those things i think that's those are real and i think i went through a lot of those emotions with our last breakup because I was set at that point. I was trying to move on truthfully. And, uh, I did go through all of that grief and grieving process. Um, and since being back together, like it just hasn't been the relationship that it used to be. And so in a sense, this was a long time coming. And I think that's why I'm feeling more relieved. Yeah. My guess is when you got back together,

you probably never fully trusted her. No. And you're probably just relieved to not be with someone you know you don't trust. I'm kind of indifferent towards it all now like i think i you lose respect for someone when they do those things to you and over time it just wears on you and uh yeah so i'm actually feeling a lot better right now than i was expecting to well that's good that's good yeah i'm happy for you. Just take it slow. I think, you know, I, I, I don't, I think it's more of a coincidence and a funny coincidence rather than, you know, you're only interested because you want revenge or you're only interested because you're bonding over this kind of shared experience. Like, I think if you weren't attracted to her and you

didn't find her a little bit charming on some level, like, I don't think the situation alone would make you interested in her, you know? No. You don't. Yeah. You're just more like curious. You're just like, why not? Right? Like, you're just like, I don't know.

Beautiful. Check. Seems nice. Check. Seems like she has good character. Check. All right, fuck it. I don't know. Why not? If nothing else, it could just be a fun first date on your recovery of getting back out there. And maybe you are, while it's still fresh and you're numb, maybe you are just kind

of like fucking done with it. And like you said, indifferent and, you know, be open to allowing feelings to pop up and, and, you know, like there's, it's a, it's great to feel indifferent because you're just like, Hey, maybe I am just like good and fine, but like, don't, don't be surprised if other feelings pop up and don't feel like I, you know, it's like, don't, don't get down on maybe not being as healed as you hoped or thought you would be. I think it's a process and it's okay at times to feel sadness over, over what happened. But in the meantime, you can take it slow and you can get back out there. You can date. And if, if, if it, something pops up a feeling, you can pause things and you take your time. Um, this, if this, if things advance with this other woman like i i hope you recognize regardless of how well it goes take it slow you know pace yourself yeah um so would you say that i should

reach out to her like sooner than later or does she have any idea about your interest it was kind of implied through conversation it It was never stated explicitly, but. So why don't you just kind of like say, and check with your therapist, you got a session afterwards, but you know, start texting and just say, Hey, this is bizarre, but like, I've enjoyed our chats. I find you. I keep thinking about you. Really attractive, you know? And like, I'm obviously in a very... It's on up to the fact that maybe I'm in a vulnerable state right now, but I wouldn't mind keep chatting with you.

I wouldn't book a plane ticket anytime soon, but maybe keep the lines of just communication open. Just someone during the day to touch base with or play some this know this or that game or think whatever just have some fun with it you know and see where it goes just take it nice and slow and any thoughts of could she be the one and shit like that i would try to like you know slow down you know she's most likely she is most likely just maybe the first person just the fact that you're interested in dating someone else i think is a great great i'm happy i'm so happy for you

a lot of times people in your position just like need some fucking time before they're even ready to like consider like it's just like they have to accept that it is over and it's hard to like process that it's over because this other person hurt you and you seem to be there you know and that's awesome and i'm really happy for you but you know she could just be like a nice first date you know so just take it slow and be mindful of your feelings don't be afraid to like whether it's through meditation or therapy just you know how am i feeling you know breathe focus on your breath and shit like that and no feeling is invalid or bad and just take it a day at a time okay i like that i think i just needed permission

more than anything like i don't see a problem with it you know if it was the other if it was like yeah they were fucking for a while and yeah you know and they knew and i'd be like a red flag you know like yeah yeah i this doesn't seem to be the case i just want to like extend a little bit of extra empathy because like i found sometimes in when i feel in dating scenarios like disappointed by another like queer woman or non-binary person like there's an added layer of like damn like i thought like we were kind of like through the shared life experience or like shared identity like there's usually the opportunity for more like closeness and it's and so it can feel extra disappointing to like get let down in that way and so i just want to why though because it's like i think with like like with some queer like with a lot of queer people that i meet

it's like oh okay like there's this like queer like with a lot of queer people that I meet, it's like, oh, OK, like there's this like, of course, like vastly different human beings. But there's this shared level of like we operate in a society where like being queer is not the norm. And so that level, that experience and also those kind of like communities that you can end up in to find like like minded people can add like an extra layer of like connection and solace. I get the connection aspect, I guess. And maybe I'm speaking out of turn here. I have just learned that, you know, for example, I talk to a lot of women about their dating experiences, straight or gay, and we've had the pleasure of having some men and you can go to certain places on the internet and find a lot of angry men towards women. And you can go to certain places on the internet and find a lot of angry men towards women and you can go to other places of the internet and you can find a lot of angry women towards men you know it's not

hard to go on like tiktok and be like fuck men and like all men cheat and blah blah blah blah and i'm just like as a as a as a straight man is only dated women you know um all of my pain that i've ever had in relationships has been caused by women and and if you're a straight woman so i guess what i'm saying is i just think uh unfortunately we live in a world where all people regardless of their political beliefs their sexual identity their preferences have the capacity to do wicked things. Absolutely. I agree with that. And no sense of a community or like-mindedness or whatever. And those things might bond you and make you feel close. But I think it's sometimes as a, we like to convince ourselves that things are safer than they are by, by identifying these

kinds of things that have nothing really to do again with each individual person's character and what, what they do in defining moments where they have choices and when they have temptations and things like that. Cause to suggest that the only people who cheat are the people who have moments of weakness or who are tempted that's not the case it's it's you know and so um yeah maybe that's just the realist in me that it's just um no i totally so agree that it is an everyone thing but i think we're maybe a little bit more predisposed to be aware of that like for like a bisexual like to be more aware or hyper vigilant of that in men not that that's accurate necessarily but just like so there is kind of that added level of like shock i think for me when i'm like at mistreatment by

queer people women can cheat sure don't i know it um so yeah so yeah i mean it's it's obviously a tough tough situation but I'm really you seem in relatively good spirits and

just stay on that journey stick with therapy and and just be open to all possibilities including this this kind of

fun situation and see where it goes sounds good I'll stay open then and Jenny please send us an update yes we want to see where it goes. Sounds good. I'll stay open then. And Jenny, please send us an update. Yes, we want to know how it goes. We really, really need an update. And you are 100, like the X,

there's no, you're done, there's no avenue of you're letting her back in? 100% done. Okay. All right. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you. Well, take care. Thank you very much for the call. right. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Well,

take care. Thank you very much for the call. I am sorry this happened to you and, uh, good luck and keep us posted. Hey, thank you guys so much for having me. I appreciate it.

All right. Thank you. You're posted. All right. Take care. All right. Bye. Bye.

How's it going? Hi, good. My name is Anna and I'm 21. Um, my long distance boyfriend has me send my outfits before I leave the house and he gives me a lot of opinions and I'm just not really sure how I feel about that. Okay.

Yeah. Well, we generally hate that. How long have you guys been dating? Like a little over two years. Okay. So it's been a while. Yeah. And has it always been long distance?

No. So we like grew up in the same hometown and then he went to college. Not too far. It's like an hour and a half. He's relatively your age? Yeah. Okay. So while you weren't long distance,

were there other examples of, you know, a little bit of controlling or possessiveness or things like that? Were there examples in other situations? Yeah. You're going to hate it. He, he's like super used to like texting his parents when he like like leaves and arrives from a place his parents are super strict and so he likes me to like text when i leave and arrive from like something like

throughout my day okay is that like uh okay because that could be in some ways uh say call me when you get home let me know you got home safe type of thing. It totally is, but it's a little much. We've had conversations about it. You feel like it goes beyond your safety. It's an insecurity that he has. Absolutely. Okay. And so you've had talks about this? Yeah. Not a ton about the clothes thing. that's kind of a new thing but definitely about the texting yeah what thoughts have you had about so you haven't had any conversations about this

topic with him about the clothes yeah we have yeah what do those conversations go like so i think it kind of it started like a while ago with like what i wear to the gym um because he kind of got me into the going to the gym and then i started out like pretty insecure wearing like like leggings and a big t-shirt or like shorts and a big t-shirt and then like as i got more confident that kind of transitioned into like biker shorts and a sports bra or like a tank top or something and he didn't really understand like why i was doing that because he just kind of associates that outfit with like the type of girl who like is looking for attention from guys at the gym but I pay my gym that I have I pay like ten dollars extra every month to work out in a women's only area

so I just don't understand how it's a factor people are a lot of want to look their best and you know people are allowed to feel good and like if someone looks at you big fucking deal like if you're if you're generally like not focused on it or you know what i'm saying so like ultimately he has to trust you or not and regardless of what you wear or who you work out around like your decision to be in a committed relationship and and not entertain you know any approaches from other men or people like it's you know has nothing to do with what you wear right we've had a lot of conversations about like how i like you know i'm a woman i'm used to like men you know creepy gross

men like in public looking at me in a certain way and i've just kind of made my peace with it and not gonna let it inhibit what i do and i'm just gonna like dress to make myself feel comfortable and like i'm not dressing to like impress other people and if it is it's like myself or like for other girls to be like oh love your outfit it's never like for anyone's any guy's attention and he just i don't think he's really like he doesn't really have the like security because he's always like oh i know how like guys think like i know their gross minds like i don't want people to look at you and like think about the things that i know guys think about yeah well he's 21 and he'll get over that or not but like he'll get over it that's a very common like you know i grew up in a very conservative home and i didn't think i was

jealous or things like that but there's just a level of in the long distance fucks with you for sure you know you know because he's so young i'm willing to like give him some slack you know type of thing you know if he was if this was a 30 year old guy you know in multiple relationships i would say that this is a very fairly serious red flag i don't you know like he's yeah 30 or, or even 25, 26. But are you, is this, it's probably his first relationship? This is his second relationship, but like his first girlfriend, he did it for a little over a year and it was in high school. Okay. Yeah.

So whatever. And when you talk to him about it, this is like, is this, this is him too? Explain. So let's just read these text messages. Are they both, is this all the same conversation? Sort of. I kind of like, there was a period in there where like I, I tried to, like, I had to, like, get it out of him. Like, I had to get his concern out of him because he was, like, acting different.

I knew he was upset, but he wouldn't tell me. Gotcha. All right. I cut out that. I'll be him. Cool. Where are we starting from? We'll start with this one.

The short one? Great. Yes. You have a shirt for tomorrow or are you just rocking a sports bra and yoga pants? I don't have a shirt or the right shoes, but blank said

a lot of people do it in socks. Oh, word. Okay. It sounded fun, so I didn't want to say no and all of her friends are going. I got you. I...

Explain or something so we can work through it. So, you have tried to coax things out of him. Yes, yes. I you have tried to coax things out of him. Yes, yes. That was like a lot of dragging it out of him. There's nothing else for me to explain.

Okay. Are you mad at me? No, I'm not mad. I'm okay. So what's still bugging you? I don't want you to be mad at me. I'm just not excited for you to go in just a sporsh bra tomorrow in pants that are up your vagina.

And I feel like that's normal. So I'm sorry I said anything. It's just something I'm not a fan of and that's okay. Gotcha. I'm sorry I said anything. I can't keep my eyes open. So you're just getting tired. Yeah.

Okay. Good night. I love you. Is that it? I bring something to you and that's it? ID babe what am i supposed to say like i told you something after you insisted i did that's fair and i was really trying to not let it affect me it's just hard like we already didn't have a good day and that didn't help so i'm sorry the room is completely dark okay go to sleep the boxing room oh and whatever it's fine i don't want to be controlling i'm not going to be seen for real

listen i this young love i don't know long distance i think these are just difficult things that people have to try to figure out he it's yeah i'm glad he's acknowledging that he doesn't want to be controlling now a lot of controlling people will say that but um you know the up the up your vagina that was inappropriate of him you know like you did ask though you know like and so yeah well we've had a lot of conversations about like he acts really different when he's like mad and it's so obvious to me and i've talked a lot about like okay if you're when he's like mad and it's so obvious to me and i've talked a lot about like okay if you're gonna choose not to be upset about something just like

choose not to be upset and don't like clue me into the fact that you're he's like he's really passive aggressive so i'm like either choose to be mad and tell me or choose to not be mad and i don't want to know so i can he acts passive aggressive and then he finally ends up telling me and i was just like shocked that he had told me that this was the issue because I didn't even think it was going to be an issue about my outfit because I was driving out of town to my friend's house and we fought on the phone on the way there about an outfit I'd been planning to wear to dinner. And so this is after all of that. I was shocked that he was continuing to bring up

something about my clothes yeah yeah have you said in so many words listen um you can trust me and even if you couldn't if i were to um do something behind your back or be unfaithful whatever what i'm wearing ain't going to change anything. You're implying that if I wear a sports bra, I am somehow going to be a sluttier version of myself and somehow give in to whatever advances that might come my way, whether it's at the gym or anywhere else. And does he trust you?

Does he trust your character? Or is he just trying to, or does he not trust you and think, well, I'm dating someone I don't trust, so I have to control what she wears, you know? This is not, you know, he needs to understand while you empathize with his insecurity that he is not, you know, he needs to understand while you empathize with his insecurity that he is not demonstrating trust.

Yeah. I will. I've asked him, cause I've heard like on your podcast a million times, like be like, just ask the point blank question. Like, do you trust me? Which I've done a million times. And he's like, yes, but like, I know how they think. And I think, you know, we.

So that's the thing. There's no, but yes, but no. If yes, but no, then you don't. Okay. That's fine. And honestly, thank you for being, if you don't, if you have, maybe it's not me, maybe you just don't, you're not good at trusting people. Let's talk through that.

But don't say, you can't say I trust you, but. There's no but to that. Because trusting me is knowing that like, it's a fucking sports bra like am i not allowed to wear a bikini at a pool like what the fuck am i not allowed to wear a a like a crop top or something or am i not allowed to wear a dress in a way that makes me feel good about myself and like in a way that that's the big problem is he doesn't want me i don't think he wants me to like dress to be sexy and like it's kind of we have we live in like a pretty conservative area group in a pretty conservative um like culture and my friend

that i was going to see like grew up there as well but she has like a real interest in fashion that i do but none of my friends in my hometown that i live in have an interest in that so I don't dress that way when I'm at home like going to dinner and so I think he's confused by the fact that like when I'm leaving I'm dressing a different way and he thinks that I'm like intentionally dressing more revealing when it's just like these clothes are cooler than the ones that I wear at home because no one cares about them that's just what you like to wear exactly i know this is why it's like i don't i don't even know what to say because he said that i was being ridiculous for like being upset about okay well i don't like shutting you down when you're trying to voice how you feel

based on him they both do that a little bit yeah i mean you definitely you asked you push him out of him he told you he upset he was finally he was finally aggressive he was no longer passive aggressive and his aggression of like you know talking about things up your vagina like was irritating to you and i understand why but you were like i'm going to bed and from his standpoint i can i can understand that frustration it doesn't make him like when we're in conflict, we're going to say things that might frustrate the other person. We're not going to be on the same page. We have to, if we don't want our partners to be passive aggressive,

and again, the alternative is aggressive, and we have to be able to hear it, you know, acknowledge it. Okay, well, don't love that you said that but okay let's talk about that and if you're not ready to talk about it then don't bring it up right before you're about to go to bed yeah you know so yeah working through you guys's passive aggression like it does work both ways you know that is separate from whether he is right or wrong for this you know controlling side of him you know so i feel like i kind of gave in to like what he was saying i was okay like i want to dress to make you feel comfortable like i'm not gonna like yeah that's a big mistake i don't think you should ever

say that it's not your job to dress to make him feel comfortable it is your job for the both of you to work towards a relationship that has trust okay you know so how do i like bring this conversation up again and like i want to is his frustration you gotta you got yeah stop having these conversations over text so hey first conversation is you get on the facetime facetime with them not even over the phone use technology facetime babe, can we make a promise with each other? If we're ever in conflict, if we're ever in a disagreement, we have to promise each other to set some time aside to have a FaceTime conversation or in person.

You know, like in person is not usually ideal because I don't want you to wait to like express your feelings, but like text is not the way for us to do that. So let's start there. But I do want to talk to you about something we've been talking about and and it's the dress thing and he's you know he's going to be like well i thought you know i didn't feel i've thought about it i've sat on it i've talked to some people i don't like that i agreed to something i'm not comfortable agreeing to i don't feel like i should dress to make you feel comfortable because that's not trust.

Do you think I have good character? Just see what he says. And do you think I am the type of person who wants to flaunt my body around to get the attention of other men? Yes or no? It's a yes or no question. Do you trust me to dress in a way that makes me feel good at my

about myself even if that you know means like looking good and do you trust me to make those decisions for myself as an adult woman and the answer to all those questions should be simple yeses and if there's no yes but and when he says yes but then you say listen there's no either you do or you don't if you want someone who has a little bit more conservative values than i do maybe we're not compatible but i don't want to be felt i don't want to be in a relationship where i'm made to feel like i'm doing something wrong when i'm not i don't want to be in a relationship where i'm made to feel like i'm not capable of dressing myself or, or, or that I'm, that I'm naive. Like I'm aware about men and either, if you trust me,

then you will trust that I am capable of setting boundaries and not, uh, accepting advances from people and letting people know I'm not available when it comes up. And that's trust. And I know that's scary, you know, but that's what trust is. Trust is an implication of without any guarantee. There's a level of faith, you know, and every conservative, you know, person out there is a person of faith, you know, and you go to your church and you're told, you know, faith is believing without seeing, that's trust. If you trust in a higher power, then you trust without proof, you know, on some level.

Now, you know, you need to, you have to give each other reasons to trust, but, you know, they can't throw it in your face. Yoga pants up your crotch is not a reason not to trust you. You know? In a dark room. Yeah. pants up your crotch is not a reason not to trust you you know in a dark room yeah so like even if it was a lately a bright room you know yeah he well i'm concerned because he has like set he's he every time he brings up something or every time i get mad at him for getting mad

about what i'm wearing he's like this is okay to feel like i'm like i'm allowed to be protective of you i'm allowed to have a like have boundaries over what you're wearing he is allowed to feel like i'm like i'm allowed to be protective of you i'm allowed to have a like have boundaries over what you're wearing he is allowed to feel whatever he wants you are allowed to disagree and you say yes you're right you are allowed to feel that way and i am allowed to feel this way and i i am kind of drawing a line in the sand because i know my character i am comfortable with the choices i make for myself. And I want to be with someone. How I feel is that I want to be with someone

who does trust me, who thinks highly enough for me that they think I'm capable of making the right decisions for me and the relationship that I'm in. And I want to be with someone who thinks I'm capable of protecting the relationship I'm in and without

guidance or approval or or checking in and if that's not you regardless of your feelings then I'm not sure if we're compatible and yes you are allowed to feel however you want but I am too and like all this is born of insecurity and i think i've mentioned to him before like i think this is like part like your own problems like reflecting on me and he just is really quick to shut that down but i want him to like soul search a little bit and like look into like why he's like because i've told him before that like i want him to look good because i want not that i want other people to think he's hot but it's like it's nice when someone's like oh like your boyfriend's cute like that's you are human beings and you will be attracted to other people i know that might be hard for like young more conservative minded people i know this because

i was one of them uh and i had very different viewpoints then that i have now and i've learned that has nothing to do with trust. There are a lot of conservative, super religious people out there who cheat. And they're just more secretive and they're good at giving off an appearance, but that doesn't mean anything. Yeah. And he probably thinks that he is more justified

because he has similar points of view than your, as your community. Yeah, totally. I guess, you know, that's why maybe like, I think it's more, I think instead of pointing out things in him, I think you simply need to find the confidence to stand your ground in your belief, standing your power, and know that what you're doing is okay. And while you want to respect his points of view, he needs to respect yours too. And I need to be in a relationship

with someone who trusts me. And I know I'm not doing something wrong here. So I need you to figure out if you're capable of trusting me and let me know. But I just want to be upfront with you and I'm not trying to be dismissive, but like going forward, I'm no longer going to really be interested in your opinion and what I wear. And that's not me not considering your feelings that is me prioritizing mine the way for you to get through this is to you to trust me and that's that's and i'm here to help and i'm

here to do whatever i can to help you trust me but this is no longer a conversation i'm willing to have with you yeah like you're doing so much work to empathize with him you know you're framing this not as like him being some terrible shitty controlling person but as like an insecure person and like that's wonderful and i think that's a really awesome quality to have in a relationship but if you are in your head like let's say your viewpoint is at 100 his is at zero and you know that and so you're kind of already going down to 50 when you are trying to talk to him and then you have that negotiation like he thinks meeting in the middle is at 25 when that's way more on his side than it is yours and I think like for people who do end up

like I like I know it's obviously like scary sometimes to throw around words like controlling or things that have like these much greater implications and of course those things happen on spectrum and there's like a large range of that spectrum where it's not like a fireable offense but I think the way that we end up on the scary end of that spectrum is by those little compromises that are born from this amazing skill of like empathizing with people and doing our best but then getting like kind of like pushed and pushed further along and so like I don't want to like in any way imply that this is too serious because like nick said there's really a way to have this conversation and to salvage this and go about it but like that is how people end up in like really scary relationship situations is by continually sacrificing themselves by empathizing

with someone who's not empathizing with them in the same way and ending up in a mindset where they lose sight of like their own convictions and the things that they know that they deserve so i just and again i don't think you're there yet but i just like want you to protect yourself because you're you have so much like kindness to bring into a relationship and you really deserve to be someone who's gonna like appreciate that and not like abuse that even if they don't even know they're doing it yeah and i think it comes down to like again, trusting yourself first, trusting your character. And once you realize, regardless of what other people think, I am comfortable with my decisions and this is who I want to be.

From that point forward, that's a non-negotiable for yourself. And you really need to stand that ground because you want to surround yourself with people who accept you for who you are and who you want to be and right now he's not willing to do that and i'm willing to cut him some slack because it there's a lot you know he's young and it's scary to be long distance and i'm sure he's well-intentioned and he but he has some growing up to do and And the only way he will grow up will not be by you empathizing with him and giving in and meeting him in the middle here, so to speak.

Because there's nothing, if you feel confident in your decision and you know you're right, there's no meeting in the middle on that one. Yeah, okay. You know? Yeah, I mean, that is exactly what I was doing is like what Amandaanda's saying like 25

like i'm at 25 already of my 50 and then he's yeah meeting me there and he thinks that that's my compromise when it's like so much more of a compromise on my side i don't think you should compromise on on this stuff like okay you know you know who you are you know you're doing the right thing and you shouldn't be made to feel bad about that and if he wants to get on board and work through this you're willing to do that but you're not willing to negotiate and and make in any way validate these this behavior okay wait can i say one more thing yeah so there we've had some issues in the past of um like he and his friends like i have like gross like locker room talk kind of around like my girlfriend and i

and and i've asked him like not to talk about that a bunch in front of me and there's a lot of stuff that i just laugh at but it's also just like not super polite i think what did you say about that well it's been a long road for him to not talk about that. But then when we were having this conversation about clothes, he was like, how is it controlling of me to control what you wear, but it's not controlling of you to control what I say? Because what I'm wearing isn't inappropriate and what you're saying is. And if you don't agree with me that's also fine we can agree to disagree yeah he doesn't agree because of that he's just like he's negating his

own like i'm like you don't get to say this is what i this is what you can and can't wear because guys are trash and guys are gross and then he turns around and does that exact same behavior i don't think i don't think what i'm wearing is disrespectful to men what you're saying is disrespectful to women and also you're not making him wear a wire and listening into all of his conversations and saying hey i hated the way you talked to that guy you're saying like when you are with me and like the way you are behaving like that's like you know and i get that it's so hard in these conversations that you're trying to not be combative and you're trying to find empathy.

It's like really hard to like stand your ground that way. Also, what you wear is about you. And he's clearly talking about other people in a very negative, gross way. Yeah. He's just arguing semantics with you. You're only 21. Yeah. And to kind of Amanda's point earlier, like this is not the recipe of success for a long lasting relationship.

And it doesn't get better. It only gets worse on these types of things. So, yeah, you know, like have the confidence and the power and the fortitude to nip this in the bud, so to speak. Or you have to consider that maybe he's just not the one. mistake or you have to consider that maybe he's just not the one and i think again it's like any you just have to prove to him uh that you're willing to stand your ground and he has the right to disagree with you this is kind of a not turning into a non-negotiable of like really what are your values your values this might be different and that might be okay but yeah yeah that's my question was like is this a fair non-negotiable of course yeah absolutely okay yeah okay 100 is even if it's jokes i mean whatever and maybe he is joking maybe he's not trying to degrade women but it makes you feel uncomfortable uh and like also yeah like what

you wearing a sports bra is not the same as is is that and if he wants to do that you're simply saying do it amongst your friends whatever but um just respect me and if he says it's the same thing you could just say again okay fine i don't agree with you my opinion's not going to change and if your opinion's not going to change then okay that makes me really sad but maybe we have to have some tougher conversations okay yeah i can do that all right yeah okay keep us posted okay thank you guys all right take care take care okay all right bye thank you how's it going good how are you good What's your name? My name is Katie. I'm 29 years old. And I just recently relapsed with my situationship, who is also my CrossFit coach.

Tell us more. Okay. So we started officially dating beginning of last year. What's officially dating mean? Well, we were going on dates and hanging out and talking every day, all day, FaceTiming. We were dating because there was definitely an understanding that we were just seeing each other and then after about two months of that um I was kind of getting into a place it was actually it was a secret from our gym because our head coach at the time had a no dating policy between coaches and members so there was a policy and um there was actually another female coach who was dating a member at the time,

but they like went to our owner and said like, we're boyfriend and girlfriend, this is official. And the coach that I was seeing at the time said he wasn't, he wanted to see where this was going, but he didn't want to make a big announcement about it yet. Like he wasn't ready. So after about two-ish months, I was like, I need to know where, where, what we're doing, like, where is this going? And he said he wasn't ready for a relationship, but he still wanted to keep doing what we were doing basically. And I was at the time I had all of this like confidence and I was like, no, I'm not an option. Like, I'm not going to sit around and wait for you. And so we broke up. The very next day, he's texting me saying he misses me. He wants to be friends. He's used to talking with me all the time. So I am like, okay, like maybe we can

be friends. And that's kind of how we slipped back into this really gray area because it wasn't a friendship. It was really inappropriate all the time for months and months and months. And every once in a while, I would bring up that I wanted more. And he would say, not right now, maybe one day. I don't know. But it would always be on his terms. Everything that happened was on his terms. And I had never even heard of a situation ship. And then when I found out about it,

it was like, that's what I'm in. That's where I'm at. So it got really messy for a really long time. And I was falling for him because i kept waiting i kept thinking like maybe he's telling the truth like he's not ready for a relationship like maybe he just needs more time maybe what what's the difference i mean what do you mean by telling the truth and and what if he needs more time what does it have to do with your willingness to And if he needs more time, what does it have to do with your willingness to, and like, needs more time for what? You know, like I just, the whole like, maybe he's telling the truth about needing more time.

Maybe he or she's telling the truth about being busy at work. You know, they still, as I'm sure you heard me say a hundred times in the show, they still aren't interested in making you a priority in this moment. Yeah. It's like you waiting around for what? Like, how long are you willing to wait around for yeah like no you know and six months three months a year yeah you know like even if it's true what does that have to do with your decision to invest in him like what what

kind of was the tipping point for me with him was like after being in that situation with him for several months um we ended up like kissing again and everything and i thought that meant that like he was wanting to start things up again and it wasn't yeah he actually told me like oh sometimes, sometimes friends make out. But you're not friends. You're not friends. And so that's when I started like stepping back. And I told him like this whole situation is like really hard for me because I have genuine feelings for you and they're not being reciprocated. And I feel like I'm just waiting around for you and I don't want to be that person. And so I told him I needed to not,

you know, I couldn't be his friend anymore. I couldn't do what we were doing anymore. And he would not give me any space at all. Like he would text me, he would come up to me at the gym. He would try to talk to me. I finally like blocked him on social media i blocked him on tick tock um i stopped responding to his text messages and he was just texting and he was coming up to me and he was trying to get a hold of me but i was like to what end like i don't understand like what you're pursuing at this point and i started dating somebody else in november and he was trying more than ever, like just texting me all the time. And I wasn't even responding at this point. And I know I should have just blocked him like cold turkey, but that was the only area that I didn't block him on. And yeah, he found out I was seeing somebody and it seemed like he was jealous, which he probably was.

And that made me feel good. And I know it shouldn't have, but it did. And I was really like interested in this new guy. And I was really trying to focus because I didn't want to be hung up on somebody that didn't want me back anymore. And then this new guy and I broke up. and then this new guy and I broke up, and not even a week later, I had decided maybe I can be friends with the CrossFit coach.

We have to see each other. He's at my gym. I just wanted to keep things as peaceful as possible. Maybe we could be friends. I felt like I had gotten over him. That's you lying to yourself. It totally was. You're an adult person.

You can be civil. You can go to the same gym with someone you have. Listen, if you have romantic feelings for him and you know that it just gets in your head and you can't focus on working out or you're tempted, there are plenty of gyms out there. But I'm just simply saying, if you are capable of going to the same gym, you don't need to pretend to be friends and lie to yourself about what that relationship is or isn't. You know, like you can be civil. You don't have to be friends. And like you told yourself like, well, you have, well, maybe we can be for what purpose? Like what is, you know,

like you need to tell them about your dates. That's what friends do. Yeah. Well, he was asking about them. He was asking where I met him and he was asking where we went on our first date and our second date and third date. Not because he wanted to be a friend, but because he was being nosy and a little jealous and possessive. Yeah. And he even looked him up on Instagram after he found out who he was and then told me about it. And it was like, I don't really understand.

So what's your question, I guess? So like I said, after I broke up with the new guy I was dating. Why'd you break up with him? Well, so that's a whole nother story that got really complicated. He told me we had been dating for six weeks. Everything was going really well. I had communicated to him like, hey, I'm not a casual dater. I'm not looking to hook up all this stuff. He said he was on the same page.

He wanted to see where this could go. He really liked me. We spent New Year's together. He introduced me to all his friends. Like everything was going really well. And about a week after that, he like almost ghosted me out of the blue. He stopped communicating for a couple of days and I didn't know what was going on. And then he came back and said that he felt like he was going through a bunch of anxiety issues and depression

and was sleeping a lot and not responding. And then said the idea of trying to factor a relationship right now into his life made him nervous the idea of trying to factor a relationship right now into his life made him nervous so he wanted to put a pause on things so I took that as like you're ending things like okay I don't want to like it's just it's over like you don't want to do this so that's fine like so we broke up and then less than a week, I hung out with my CrossFit coach and we ended up kissing a lot. And I'm like finding myself back in that situation with him where we're like, we're communicating again and FaceTiming and we kissed. And it was like, I don't know what we're doing now because we both said.

You're doing exactly the same thing you always did. Yeah. So I don't want to be in this situation with him anymore like i don't want to do it and i knew yeah you're right i was lying to myself i knew i shouldn't it was i wasn't over him and going back into his house and hanging out with him again it was not smart on my part because i was the one that had the deeper feelings and he admitted that he didn't have those feelings as strong as i did like he was like i liked you and obviously we went we dated and he keeps saying like i still find you attractive like that means something like well that's the thing it's like it doesn't mean anything and he he also is being honest but

like you want it to mean something and you're're asking, you're, you're saying that to me, hoping I say it means something. You're like saying it out loud. You're like, you say that to yourself. Like he said, I was, I know it doesn't mean something, but does it mean something? I don't know. Cause like you're, you're kind of willing to take any crumbs he's willing to give you to have hope. And you're, you're just holding on to hope. you are you seem level-headed enough and like objective enough about the situation to know to you know for the most part be honest with yourself but you're still hanging out your problem is hope right now you have this you're not willing to just totally let go of any hope that this can turn into anything and you're willing to consider

any crumb of hope that he offers you even if it's something is like obnoxious is saying well i still find you attractive and you're like well can that is that hope you know like that's that's kind of what your inner dialogue is kind of saying is my guess yeah so i mean is your question like how do you fully move on from this situation, Chip? I've been waiting around for him for too long. You got to go. I mean, stop going to this CrossFit gym. You can't be that good of a coach. Well, it's like he's one of the coaches,

but I've been with this gym for a while, and it's like a really close-knit, small community. Listen, you got to ask yourself. You got to be honest with yourself. you got to take care of yourself. And it's okay to say right now, I'm just not in a position to see him and have that not fuck with me a little bit, you know? And that's okay. It's okay to say, like, I have feelings for this guy. I let him in a little too much and too often.

I played some games with myself. He's obviously very inconsiderate of my feelings and very selfish. And he is, despite, you know, yeah, he's let me know that he doesn't want to date, but he knows how I feel. And he keeps, you know, pursuing me and he keeps letting me know that he wants to spend time with me. And he is, has been ignoring the fact that he knows I like him more than he likes me and still wants to hang out. He's being very inconsiderate with my heart and my feelings. So I'm, I'm in deep. I've struggled getting over this. I've tried. I just, you got to start taking some extreme measures and like, you know, your community, your CrossFit gym and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, are really just honestly excuses for you not to move on. Because like there are other gyms

and maybe you can come back to this gym, but right now you just have to like take it easy on yourself and not try to convince yourself that you can get around. And again, if there are ways to go to this gym and have other coaches and make sure he's not the coach, then do that. But like pretending that you're okay with seeing him at the gym occasionally right now

and giving him access to you so that he can get in your head and fuck with you and make these comments and give you these little breadcrumbs of hope that you will like overanalyze and question and getting your head and keep investing more of your energy and emotions on this situation ship is not doing you any good so you just got to start making some like tough decisions for yourself and make make it easier on yourself you know it, it's that same, you know, I always use these food analogies of like, you know, like it's just much harder to stay away from whatever food you want to stay away from. If you like buy it at the grocery store and bring it home, you know, then every time you see it at home, you have to say no, as opposed to just having enough willpower not to buy the thing you're trying to not to eat at the grocery store, you know, and limit where you go out to eat and things like that, you know, but you are just like, oh, I'm going to go to the gym where he's working out and then make myself say no to him, you know, every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. That's, it's torture. It's tough on you. So, you know, until you get to a place where you are indifferent and you really don't care,

or you just see him for what he is, you have to like go out of your way to not have him in your life. Cause like you are only human. It's just like, you know, stop, like it's stop being hard on yourself by like trying to prove that you're capable of being friend. Like, what does that mean? You don't, there's no, there's no metal or patch or certificate that anyone's going to give you for being friends with someone you have feelings for. Like there's no points awarded for that. There's no medal, you know, no one cares, you know, no one's saying good job. It doesn't mean anything. It's just an excuse we tell ourselves to keep the people we want close and hope that some magic thing changes, even though they've given us no reason that's going to change. And again, the only thing that's going to change,

as I've said many times over, is for you to be completely gone and he has no access to you. And he truly believes that you can stand your ground because all you have done has shown him that he can get you here and there. And apparently this little bit amount that he gets to have access to you is enough to keep him interested.

I also like I imagine there's probably a part of you that's like, but I don't want to give up this community in this place that I love because I can't like keep it under control with myself. That's exactly. It feels like I'm failing in some capacity. Like, why can't I? Because I tried like I'm failing in some capacity. Like, why can't I? Because I tried, like, I had him blocked on everything. I was cordial at the gym and he was coming up to me, like, why am I blocked on everything? Why are you being mean to me? Why won't you talk to me? This is really not okay. Like, why can't you just be my friend? And it was guilting me into this

place of like, is there something wrong with me that I can't just like and that's why I figure it out you're going to the gym because you're investing in yourself and you're doing something that's like getting endorphins flowing and you're taking care of yourself and you're moving like and he is someone who is like really counterproductive to that goal and like if you have friends who you're like you know I get that it's so nice when you have these like shared spaces even people that you don't necessarily like talk to a ton it's just like seeing familiar faces is really reassuring and it's like tough to give that up but if there's anyone that you actually want to be friends with like shoot your shot say like hey like I'm switching gyms but like I'd love to grab a drink sometime like I really enjoy chatting with you

like just to like keep those friends know that you will build like new connections at a new gym and like it's not fair to kind of keep criticizing yourself for failing mission impossible. Like this time has shown you that this is mission impossible to like avoid him at this gym. And it's and I know it's like I feel like our brain like probably tells us like, no, no, no, it is possible. I'm just like not good at it. But it's like after how much time you're not failing. It's just, you know, you're a human being with feelings and emotions. And it's just. Again,, you're a human being with feelings and emotions. And it's just, again, muscling through, trying to convince yourself. I get the loss of community, and that's a bummer.

You know what I'm saying? And you can get that back for the time being, in the short run. Take it easy on yourself. Because, again, like I said, no one at the gym is like, you know, you're not going to put your plaque on the wall. Be like, person best at torturing themselves. at the gym is like you know you're not going to put your plaque on the wall be like person like best at torturing themselves you know like like no one care you know like you don't what are you proving to yourself that you're incapable of yeah torturing yourself and and making it harder to get over someone it's hard to get over people we have feelings for you develop

feelings for this person and it's really a tough thing to do. And we have to go out of our way to make it as easy as possible for ourselves because getting over someone can consume our thoughts and energy, even when we're not around them. And that can just suck us dry. And that can affect our ability to get good workouts and it can affect our job. It can affect other relationships. It's like a poison. And instead of beating yourself up metaphorically because you're not strong enough today to work out with him and give him access to fuck with you,

why don't you just be more considerate and kind and empathetic to your emotional needs in your heart and pat yourself on the back every day that you feel better and better and make it easier yourself and find other gyms or other outlets to get your workout in or find ways to like work out when you know he's not there and ease back into it when you start feeling healthy again. You know, that's far more productive and you will get your other relationships, your other activities.

You'll have more energy to invest in those because you'll be far less emotionally invested in trying to get over this guy. But right now it's really consuming you and you're not doing yourself any good. Like plant yourself somewhere where you can bloom. Like this soil is shitty, shitty, shitty soil. And it might've been really good soil to start with, but now it's not. And so it's like, and you deserve to bloom. Yeah. No, I, it's definitely like when I was dating the other guy, like, even though that didn't work out, I was feeling so much better and I was feeling lighter because this guy wasn't fucking with my head and he was like, it didn't work out and that's fine. But like he was communicating as it was going.

And I was like, this feels so much healthier. I feel so much lighter. I feel so much better. so much healthier i feel so much lighter i feel so much better and immediately following my little relapse with my my crossfit coach i felt like i was hung over and i was like this is heavy i don't like the way that i'm feeling and it is it's toxic and it's point like i yeah years of your life like on this show like we've heard from so many people who end up in situationships that last months and years and it's not because of like a moral failing on their part it's because they like didn't make hard choices to set themselves up to do better and like i think sometimes you know you don't want to put too much pressure on yourself

but i also think like think about the stakes of like you don't want to like waste like months of your life that you deserve and that you have every like every area and tool in place to make happy for yourself all right well yeah i think the the key focus is and we had uh dr maya on our show a going deeper episode a couple weeks ago talking about you know talking about resolution planning and things like that. But a big part of that conversation was an empathy gap with your now self and future self and things like that. And so have more empathy for future self and things like that. Think about where future you wants to be in that emotional state and what you need to get there. And future you can go to this CrossFit gym and future you can do these things. But right now you need to figure out how to get there and, and think about how you

want to be feeling in the future. And you have to put in the work in today so that you can feel that way. Um, and I, and I think that'll go a long way. And, uh, it's again, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to, this is hard to do, you know, and don't, you don't know, you don't, there are no points awarded for pretending you're not hurting or pretending that you're stronger in a situation than you are. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to be sad. It's okay not to show up to events that are going

to be too tough. Eventually, yeah, you want to challenge yourself to work through it, but you're not even allowing yourself to get through it and heal and get over it and accept it. But you do have to let go of any hope that it's going to come around and not overanalyze these little breadcrumbs of hope that he gives you. And then I think you need to read this book. I have your book well that's read i read it and that's why i blocked him initially i thought i was doing so good

one more pass yeah one more pass yeah i'm gonna read it again i have it it's upstairs uh there's a whole chap chapter two it's bent for you i know yeah i gotta read it again you i know yeah i gotta read it again it's tough it's tough but you're gonna be okay just stop there's no points awarded for pretending that you don't care or that you're over it or that you're fine or that you can be friends with someone that you have stronger feelings for. Well, keep us posted on your journey of getting over him. I love that analogy about the grocery store because it's hard to have this type of willpower consistently. So make it easier on yourself so that you don't have to constantly say no to him right now. Saying no to him right now is simply just not putting yourself in the same room as him and not giving him access to you. That should be your focus. And until you truly feel indifferent, then there are CrossFit gyms fucking everywhere.

I know. Okay. They're like Starbucks nowadays. There's one on every corner. Yeah. Okay? Okay. Sounds good on every corner. Yeah. Okay? Okay. Sounds good. Take care. Thanks.

All right. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget, Bachelor Recap tomorrow, going deeper on Thursday, and Better Date Than Never live, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific, Thursday night. So be sure to download the AMP app. Search for my

name. Follow the show. You don't want to miss it. Super fun. We'll see you there. Bye.