The Viall Files - E538 Bachelor Recap with Elizabeth Wagmeister

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Bachelor Recap Edition! We’re back with journalist and friend of show, Elizabeth Wagmeister, to discuss the third episode of Zach’s season. We start out by covering the week’s Bachelor Tea, including some headlines about Nick and why The Bachelor isn’t concerned with keeping up with Love is Blind. We dive into this week’s episode and discuss Kaity’s one on one sleepover date (what actually happened, and did they sleep in that tent?), the Bachelor Bowl 5, and Aly’s skydiving adventure. Also, the cocktail-turned-pool party, several women self-eliminating, and the shocking final rose given out. Why is Zach the ideal Bachelor, who will turn into the villain now that Christina is gone, and what can we expect when travel begins next week?  “Maybe ABC is putting the viewers’ money where their mouth is.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail] Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/ To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ShipStation: Get a 60-day free trial at https://www.shipstation.com/viall. Thanks to ShipStation for sponsoring the show!  Rothy’s: For stylish and comfortable shoes, shop Rothy’s. Get $20 off your first purchase at https://www.rothys.com/VIALL Noom: Stay focused on what’s important to you with Noom Weight’s psychology-based approach.  Sign up for your trial today at https://www.noom.com/VIALL DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code VIALL. New customers can bet FIVE DOLLARS on Super Bowl Fifty Seven and get TWO HUNDRED IN BONUS BETS INSTANTLY. Minimum age and eligibility restrictions apply.  Gambling Problem? Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (CO/IL/IN/LA/MD/MI/NJ/OH/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA).  21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MD/MI/NJ/NY/OH/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. Eligibility restrictions apply. $200 in Bonus Bets: Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 bet. Promo code req. $200 issued as bonus bets that expire 7 days (168 hours) after being awarded. Bonus must be wagered 1x and stake is not included in any returns or winnings. Super Boost: Valid 1 Odds Boost Token per customer after opt-in each day for eligible Super Bowl LVII prop markets only. Token must be used BEFORE placing eligible bet between 6-9PM ET daily. Odds boosts and prop markets will vary. Max bet limits apply. Tokens are non-cashable, non-refundable, and cannot be withdrawn. Boost Token expire daily at 9PM ET. There are no restrictions on the funds a customer will receive if their bet wins. If their bet loses, they will not receive any reward. Offer period valid 2/6/23 - 2/11/23. See terms at https://www.sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ewagmeister @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile fouls bachelor recap edition i'm your host nick joined by amanda and ally how you ladies doing good fantastic monday happy monday amanda had her birthday on friday also elizabeth wagmeister is with us welcome back elizabeth thank you good to be with you good to see you and happy birthday thank you we always love it when you're here i love being here i mean hello really just part of the show but thank you but i have kiki yeah today kiki the new office dog is friendly or is kiki a slut that's the question i've been asking myself ever since she's started coming to the office friendly she's

dignified because she saves like belly rubs yeah just because you're just like sticking her tongue down people's throats i mean you're a slut that's the question every mother has to ask is her daughter popular or is she a little promiscuous is that what the moms are asking that's what I asked

myself about Kiki a man had a birthday and she had an improv Friday night and she had a show is it a showcase like a show you're part of a show

it was a show we all went yeah she had a whole row it was like it was like me growing up in catholic church we would take a whole pew yeah that's so fun it did it did give catholic throwbacks because we were waiting on you and natalie and like derek put his jacket down on your two seats it was very like sunday morning and then we sat down and like am does a lot of improv. Allie. Hey,

I did it for months for you. You're welcome. Well, then that disappoints me. I'm disappointed in you because you didn't do it for yourself or your career.

Anyway. I'm just a bystander. I am not involved in that. We'll table this coaching one on one for a little time. And then we sat down and Amanda, like I said, I said to Natalie, I'm like, I hope she's good. Like we were there, you know, she does a lot of energy and time into improv.

And it was like, this could go, you know, it's LA. By God. It's like, you know, organized improv. You never really know, Like it can be exceptional and it could, you know, everyone has to start somewhere. Right. You know, so good on everyone for trying,

but it was really, it was really good. Okay, good. I was like, where is this going? Amanda was very good. Her team was very good. And the other team, we laughed.

It was, it was a good, it was a fun night out. I was impressed. Cause I saw Allie and Derek, like right when I got there and then like getting off stage and seeing you in the audience, like you and Natalie. I was impressed. Because I saw Allie and Derek like right when I got there and then like getting off stage and seeing you in the audience like you and Natalie

I was like oh. You didn't know they were coming? No. Oh right. I texted you. It was a college surprise which I think is good because I think I would have been more.

I was part of the surprise and I forgot it was a surprise. But you did really good. I expected you would do fine. Yeah. But you were really good. Thank you. You exceeded his expectations. You were. Yeah. In a way really good. Thank you. You exceeded his expectations.

You were, yeah. In a way. I don't want to say, I don't want to suggest I had no expectations of her, but you just never really know. It's also incredibly difficult to get up there and kill it. Next time I'm inviting myself. Oh my god. I want to come along. We all brought drinks

except for Nick. Is that what it was supposed to be? I literally asked. I was very thirsty. I said, do you want to Uber with us so you can get a little tipsy? And you said no. I just heard, do you want to Uber with us? And you said no.

And that's where the conversation ended. Did you think I was sipping water out of my water bottle? I was focused on the show, to be honest. The best was my friend and I made water bottles to go at my apartment. And the only water bottle I had left for her was a BetterHelp water bottle that we've been given through the show. And Derek goes, the irony of the gin in the BetterHelp water bottle. There you go. Elizabeth, how are you other than congratulations on your engagement?

Congratulations to you. I mean, I know for this podcast, it might be not the newest news. It's old news, yeah. It's not old news. It's the first time that I've seen you in person since. I texted you the second I saw, but I'm so excited for you and Natalie. Likewise.

Well, I'm excited for you. Thank you. What was your exact proposal date? The 12th, the day before Friday the 13th. Okay, so we were- Which I thought about doing on Friday the 13th. Okay, so we were- Which I thought about doing on Friday the 13th. It could have been fun. Yeah, so we were about a week apart.

We're engagement twins. You were before me. After. You were after? After. Oh. December 17th. Yeah, but he was January 12th.

Oh wait, you were January 12th. Okay, then I was four, then we're a month apart. No, you're like two, three. This shows that- You're a journalist, it's, you're like two, three. This shows that- You're a journalist. It's fine. You're not a scientist. I have no idea.

I never know what day it is. I never know what month. It's February now, apparently. LA does, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, congrats. Thank you. Worst, I still say a month apart is engagement twins.

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For stylish and comfortable shoes, shop Rothy's. Well, lots to get into. Yeah. I feel like we have a little bit more meat to discuss than last week. Previous weeks, yeah. Anyways, let's just roll right into the tea if we have it. Bachelor tea. Yeah, okay. Did you see that there was a little bit more meat to discuss than last week's yeah anyways let's uh let's just roll right into

the tea if we have it yeah okay did you see that there was a little it was giving me quarantine crew vibes when you know matt james and tyler cameron hannah brown were all hanging out and making content yeah but it was rachel clayton michelle blake and and Giannino went on a trip. The five of them. They went on a trip? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Wait, so who was on the trip? Rachel, former Bachelorette Rachel, Clayton, Michelle Young. It was like a trip.

It wasn't like they were just in LA? And then Blake and Giannino. I thought this was like in LA. This really surprised me. Just seeing Rachel with Clayton. Clayton was kind of... Yeah. It was interesting.

It wasn't surprising to me. There are like phases and kind of coming off being the lead. Both Rachel and Clayton were. And it's usually, Clayton's story was a little different because even when he was announced

as the bachelor, it was a lot of who the fuck is this guy? Why is this guy? We have all these other like the rodneys of the world were passed on for clayton uh and then the season started and you know more of who the fuck is this guy what the fuck you know oh you know he never really had a moment per se but rachel despite moments of of criticism coming her way throughout her season

she certainly had her moment while filming and leading up to it and you know with all the stuff with clayton she was she was on her high right and so i think for every lead there's this period of like again being treated like you know like a a minus celebrity for a moment you have that's the axis you have a minus is so funny yeah at least that's the axis you have for a moment of time of being treated like a certain type of celebrity. And with that access, I think there's a level of unavailability. You present to the world, you know, you're more, you know, you're more selective with what you say yes to.

That makes sense. And then that quickly just fades away like overnight. And then now, you know, looking at Rachel, they have Gabby and Rachel, all that. So it's not shocking to me. It's just a matter of like, oh, now we're in the phase of Rachel and Michelle and Clayton kind of thinking, what do we do now? Like, what's next? I've had those moments of thinking of like, you're just kind of trying things.

You're just, you're trying. You're just like, and you're trying to collaborate with your peers because people like it and now, yeah, it's not that hard to figure out that Rachel's like, you know what, fuck it, like, let's bring Clayton on, like this will stir up the pot and having fun with it. So it's not too shocking to me. I think this happens always for everyone. It's just, I think it happens sooner than expected

for some people, right yeah it's given like rachel and i was her feelings on clayton right right and i because i agree with you the i never take the feelings to heart so much with some of these people because as you said a lot of it is strategy and kind of staying in the limelight and whatnot, I was just more surprised that they even still talk. Like, if I had to guess, I would think that after they wrapped filming, like, there was never another work set. Probably not.

But Clayton was with Susie, right? Right. And then he wasn't with Susie. Mm-hmm. Rachel, I guess, was with Tino for a hot second. But I think if you exit a relationship in that world, once you're out of that relationship, especially because of all the rules,

you probably haven't had some of those conversations or those closer conversations that people often want to seek out. Like, I just want to know this and I'm curious about this. And it wouldn't shock me if both Rachel and Clayton had those questions for one another. Right. I also, I me if both Rachel and Clayton had those questions for one another.

Right, I also, I'm not here to defend Clayton. Like I don't even really care that much because to me that was kind of like it happened and it was done and you know. We can defend Clayton on the show. No, no, no, so I kind of thought he got a really bad rap. He definitely did. You know, and I don't.

Given the intensity of everything that happened happened like he didn't kill anyone right no and i didn't think it i mean it wasn't great but it wasn't great but i didn't think it was that bad in the sense of he was actually just being incredibly honest and i kept saying like the biggest mistake he made was just being too honest in the way in which he went about it but i also think by product of the show like you're dating multiple people these things happen it was just the double breakup that telling them all everything at the same time is what bothered me but it was the cavalierness of their feelings and his lack of like thinking about how any of this impacted anyone else but himself. Correct. And they were just all along for the ride.

It was inconsiderate. And it was immature. Yeah. And it just showed his lack of emotional immaturity. And it felt like a lack of executive functioning because it felt like the issue was that he was so present. lack of executive functioning because they felt like the issue was that he was so present so like by executive like i'm saying this from like an add standpoint as someone like when you can kind of like zoom out and be able to plan things like kind of put together like complicated tasks and timelines so like sort of not just like kind of handle the thing in the moment but also contextualize

that within like a larger scale of like what do i need to do and so and i'm that's i'm sure there's like a learning psychologist who's like furiously typing to correct me on that but like basically my point is just like i think he was too present like i think he was so in it when he was with someone and he was like i love you but in a way where it was like kind of a like a total disservice to everyone involved because there was no like larger sense of like what is this coming at the expense of where are other people in the world like it's like an object permanence kind of thing that's the real nice way of saying like he was just you know selfish and inconsiderate yeah and and you know again it takes emotional maturity to think how your actions not only impact you and the person in front of you,

but like the ripple effect, you know, all the people around you and how that plays out and to think past that, like that's consideration, you know, and so he didn't do that. But at the end of the day, like we have all been that on certain levels and he displayed that behavior on camera and this with these stakes and to that end well i think he's very much guilty of what he did i

agree with you like we've all been there i don't we don't need to treat him like he's some horrible evil person who can't learn from this mistake and he's more than i think most people in his shoes has taken accountability and ownership and shown an interest to like have this be an experience that betters him than others. So I'm I've I've always been team Clayton since the show. Yeah. No, I think I agree with you, though. I think he was so in his own head and maybe felt like he was doing the right thing. And then he just like word vomited everything. But he certainly got no help from Jesse or the the producers right yeah i mean they loved it and

let's be honest like he's not the first person that did this i just think he was maybe the first one who verbalized it in such a way yeah i love you the most yeah that's one of the best lines in bachelor history yeah so anyway like i don't think he's a bad guy i did at the time i felt kind of bad for all the hate he was getting um so like it's fine like we've seen worse people come from this show and other reality shows i'm i was i thought it was it was nice to see rachel and clayton hanging out uh but i mean she did have to address it because obviously people were like are they back not had she had to address it because obviously people were like are they back? She had to? She had to address it?

But people were automatically assuming are they back together? Are they dating? Because they were all together for the PGA tour so I'm guessing they all just like shared a house. They were all there for that event. What did you find out where they were? The PGA tour. The AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am. They were in Pebble Beach.

Pebble Beach. That was not on my in Pebble Beach. Pebble Beach. That was not on my bingo card. And this happens at the three Monterey Peninsula's premier golf courses. I can list them for you if you want. No, this is like a fancy event. I'm curious how many rooms

there were in the Airbnb and how they went about like dividing who got what room. Because I feel like that's like the number one way to start drama in an otherwise very pleasant friend group of like getting an Airbnb for the weekend.

There's 100% sexual tension between Clayton and Rachel, right? They've hooked up. That's pretty common knowledge, right? Yeah. I mean, yes. Right? Yeah. And they both experienced trauma for this experience on some level.

And they didn't talk. They didn't hang out. And now they are? There is no way there wasn't like fucking sexual tension in that house. What if it was,

I mean, Blake and Giannina in one bed, Michelle and Rachel were like, we'll share. And then Clayton was by himself.

But like halfway through the night, Rachel said. Who knows? I'm just, I'm not suggesting anything happened other than there was tension

that also we're forgetting a key piece of info here there could also be sexual tension between clayton and michelle yeah remember that no i agree with you i don't think there was but they are technically exes anything's possible and she's single yeah no i agree i i would put my money more on rachel and clayton i think michelle's like no i'm good but i'm just saying like they're both exes technically it's a bachelor like a little household who knows if this were any world other than a bachelor group like that would be very weird two girls that have dated the same guy how did did she address the drama? She confirmed via February 3rd Instagram story that it was all in good fun.

What do you mean? They posted TikToks about it? Yeah, and she said that you guys have me dead to the fans who were saying, are you dating? And she said, healing and forgiveness is a lesson I had trouble learning for a long time.

But she said that she's not leaving this era quite yet. I'm assuming implying this era of being single, not leaving it just yet. Okay. Okay. But Susie also. Susie chimed in. We love a good Susie chime in.

Everyone's talking about Susie too. And she just posted an Instagram story, just a selfie of her outside. And the caption was, walking on the side of the street with sun, not shade. Oh. Ironic because tiny bit of shade

on that side of the street. But I actually don't think Susie gives a shit. No. Susie's thriving. She's I feel like one of the most secure people I've ever met. She comes across that way. It's so radiant. I just feel like she's someone who seems like really sure

of herself. I think they liked her and then associated her with Clayton. Mm-hmm. And then I think quickly came around. We are hating on him again.

Well, I feel like I didn't, I just like didn't feel like I got a sense of her personality at all on the show. So I think I was kind of like, maybe was sort of had her sorted into like

kind of like the Bachelor classic boring camp had her sorted into like kind of like the Bachelor classic boring camp, which is so unfair because she's so interesting and funny and like kooky and has a million things

to say and is great. But she just got kind of like the like princess beautiful girl edit. Yeah. The best was when she came on after the final rose and Nick,

we had been promised like the most upset woman, but I'm guessing that changed because they went with two bachelorettes. And the best was just her starting out that episode and Nick we had been promised like the most upset woman but I'm guessing that changed because they went with two bachelorettes and the best was just her starting out that episode and Nick saying yeah are you the most pissed woman she was like I'm so pissed like that like that's Susie she was funny yeah no more shavings make a pile we talk about that all the time on this great show and whatever your wellness needs are your diet plays a significant role in meeting those needs. Maybe you want more energy. Maybe you want to sleep better. Maybe you want to gain weight. Maybe you want to gain muscle mass. Maybe you want to lean on a

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and eligibility restrictions apply see show notes for details all right moving on all righty claire crawley got married great boom less than four months after getting engaged so guys clock is ticking for both of you uh yeah to ryan dawkins okay yeah and she engaged someone else too no okay no other than other than dale because she and ryan kind of kept their romance like under wraps okay i remember when they kind of like launched their relationship online and there were some comments of friends of theirs saying things along the lines of like the secrets being kept or like a year in the making. So they definitely kept it much more private than her other relationships.

But she posted on February 2nd, Mr. And Mrs. Dawkins. Great. Great. Okay. There we go. I'm happy for her. Yeah. Yeah.

She looked gorgeous. Yeah. She did. Quick turnaround though. Not as quick as Dale. But I guess she's like, she's also, that's true.

She's slowing it down. Four months compared to 72 hours. Exactly. Like really. Yeah. She obviously knows what she wants. She's ready. So if you know,

you know. Cause she was like the 39 when she was the bachelorette. So I feel like by now, I'm sure she like has a very strong sense early on. Like if fucks with i just mean more so like the planning like not even just engagement four months from saying i do to getting down the aisle like you can't even get a dress in four months not everyone right you know is a servant to the wedding industry a cog in the wedding machine planning a wedding jesse palmer explained why The Bachelor isn't concerned with keeping up with Love is Blind.

I feel like that's been a topic of conversation. All these new dating shows coming out. A lot of people kind of drag Bachelor for being so antiquated and traditional and not doing anything new. And Jesse said The Bachelor was first. I think a big part of The Bachelor is about authenticity and really trying to get back to what the core of the show has always been about and what it's supposed to be about. It's finding love.

It's the romance. It's the journey. It's the love story and finding out how that develops. He also mentions that it hasn't necessarily been immune to switching things up, a.k.a. doing two bachelorettes and adding different things, saying, quote, I think it's OK for a show to be cyclical sometimes and try different things instead of trying to completely redefine and recreate itself it's just getting back to what it's supposed to be which i feel like has been overall the message of this season every time we hear from jesse it's talking about or sean low bringing it back to romance and bringing it back and bringing it back yeah i mean uh i i think it's a it's obvious that what what what the goal of of the bachelor franchise whoever you know the people in charge is to truly go back to their

roots i mean sean low making two appearances already is like apparently the only one capable of giving relationship advice because he's the only one their silly little show worked for. You know, so it's like, it's fine. I mean, it just is what it is. I do think it's funny when you see articles out there of people criticizing the show for whether it's a lack of, you know, innovation or, you know, keeping up with the times. I'm even one of those people.

I'd like them to introduce some other kind of non-traditional elements or relationships in the pool of people who are dating. And that just doesn't happen. And it's clear that instead, it's almost kind of an FU or to the fans. They just, yeah. I mean, I think the franchise is truly like playing to the base and going back to like

old school, like they're truly about the love stories and they don't really, and they're going to cast who they want to cast and they're going to focus on who they want to focus and they're not really going to care. And, you know, for all the people who are out there, uh, complaining about this is the end of, of the bachelor that's just not true and i'm not saying that to defend the franchise i'm just saying that is this is from what i've heard from multiple people who know what they're talking about that the bachelor is still making abc and warner brothers so much money so much more money than any other thing

that both Warner Brothers and ABC is making. So until that changes, they can do whatever the fuck they want and they will and they are. Yeah, so I will back you up on that. My sources say the same. I remember there was a piece recently that I saw and it was like, this season is the end of the Bachelor yeah like vanity fair it's just it's just not true it's

not true um and given that i cover the bachelor and have for a while you know i'll have people ask me and say like why aren't you writing that i'm like because it's not true like as a critic who i think that was a column so like they can write that based on opinion yeah but as a reporter who covers it it's an incredibly successful franchise. I think it's gone through some growing pains, obviously, in the past few years, like the Chris Harrison departure, all of this. But if you think about it, to go nearly 20 years without a hiccup and now you have this moment, I do feel like it's now this is an unpopular opinion.

I know we're going to get to the episode I'm actually really liking this season and I think it is going to go back on the upswing but to go to what Jesse said and I interviewed Jesse before this season too and he spoke all about the you know this is back to tradition and all that but so I love love is blind i love all of the netflix dating shows i'm a huge fan um just as much as i'm a huge fan of bachelor and i think in a way i think bachelor is smart to stick to what they're doing because they can never do what netflix is doing right because of broadcast regulations so netflix you have you know they're cussing and they're like showing everything and it's so fun

and it's more messy, but that's their format. And I think if The Bachelor tries to get into that territory, it's just going to seem like a watered down version because they can't do that. So I think they're smart to stick to what they're doing because it's been working for two decades. But yes, like all the calls to change things i agree with you nick they have a formula they're sticking to it when you look at the bottom line and the dollars and the cents it's working and it's like monday night football like i really think if you view it through the lens of like you don't have to change the rules of football every single week like it's the same ones like the cocktail like we have the same playbook like the cocktail party gets canceled the quarterback

gets sacked like whatever it is. I think viewing it like that is kind of the model that they're really like returning to. I think they have to play the long game with this season because when you invest in the love stories, like there's huge payoff with like hometowns, fantasy suite, final two, because you have proper love stories that you were invested in. You didn't spend the first half of the season having one crazy lady or woman who looks crazy because of her edit monopolizing all the time, you have these deep, ingrained, more grounded connections

that hopefully will result in some high drama later on. I agree. Well, speaking of Love is Blind, we do have a major announcement for all you reality TV and Love is Blind fans. Next week, Thursday on Going Deeper, Raven and love is blind fans next week thursday on going deeper raven from love is blind is with us to talk about all the sk drama all the infidelity all the rumors she goes through every little detail this is the only podcast that you can listen to her go through

every detail of all the things that went down between her and SK. It's some wild, wild shit. Our jaws were just dropped the whole show, so you won't want to miss it. It's next Thursday on Going Deeper. Be sure to check that out. Can't wait for you guys to hear it. I'm excited. I'm excited we got it.

While we're at it, don't forget to check out Ask Nick's on Monday. We have an amazing episode that dropped the other day. on Monday. We have an amazing episode that dropped the other day. Someone who was cheated on by their ex-fiance wants to date the person their ex-fiance was potentially going to cheat on them with. It was wild stuff. You've got to

check it out. It's a great story. Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com If you're on TikTok, not only will you be getting premium content from Nick Vial, but also Vile Files, at Viall Files. We now have our own handle. We are growing, up and coming.

Be one of the- Be sure to follow us on there. Yeah, be one of the OGs. And if you're like, it has so few followers. Is this legit? It's legit. Yeah, it's verified. And we need you to be there.

It's new, it's new. We're growing. We're growing. Also, don't forget, another episode of Better Date Than Never. This Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific on AMP, a live show all about dating do's and don'ts. And we're getting people's stories and we're creating a community for other people out there, braving the dating world. We've been talking about X and double standards. standards and we were talking about last week fascinating

conversation about how many men don't like when you're in hookup culture aren't asking questions along the lines of what do you like what are you into like in the bedroom so to speak it's it turns it seems as though that the only check

in that the men seem to be doing are did you come which I can't believe this is check-in that the men seem to be doing are, did you come? Which, disappointed. I can't believe this is like blowing your mind. I know, I'm like, this is not news. We've all known.

I'm not in a lot of rooms with a lot of dudes and other women. For the first time. We are here to tell you that this has been a problem. We were discussing that thoroughly on the last episode of Better Date Than Never. So if those kind of topics are of interest to you, make sure to join us this Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern. Download the AMP app. It's free.

You check out our Instagram for details on that. Don't miss it. Back to some tea. Because little miss ma'am that I'm going to talk about has three bullet points. Caitlin Bristow has been chatty recently. She's been making some headlines. First, she says that she got ghosted by Chris Harrison after she got the Bachelorette hosting gig. She said that she messaged him 10 times without him responding.

And her only intention in doing that was to let him know that he was irreplaceable and she wasn't trying to step on his toes. 10 times? Apparently. So she says. That's a lot. I've reached out to him a couple times. I think like two, three or four. And there were different times and it was for various reasons.

And he didn't get back to me, but it never felt like. Blatantly ignoring you yeah it felt like you know he was going through a crisis whether of his own doing or not and it really wasn't about getting a response right yeah no the way 10 yeah the the way that caitlin said this i listened to the podcast and covered it is she was very distraught over it like she called chris her best friend she said that yeah yeah like she spoke about him that they were very close and said that she reached out to him 10 times he wasn't answering she thought that he hated her but then and i have not listened to it yet so i can't really form an opinion but now she's on chris harrison's podcast so now this feels a little empty to me right like you talk

all about not that i mean i think i think yes i think that people should talk and should make up and there is you know room for redemption of course but it's like you do a podcast you get all these headlines and then oh guess whose podcast i'm gonna go on yeah yeah i thought the same thing it seems a little whatever i kind of i see where caitlin's coming from in terms of like i would be so anxious if i was like this is someone who i feel close to it's inherently awkward that i have your job after you exited in a way that was like not necessarily something you wanted for yourself like I

totally see where she's coming from of kind of like needing that like wait hello like hi like just really trying to make sure like we're cool trying to make sure we're cool and to like be like iced out like that like I would also be kind of like frantic but then you go on a podcast and talk about it and then now Chris is willing to respond

to you and like have you on a show like both of them. It's like it's too public. Yeah. Because I totally agree with you with Caitlin. I was like, that sucks. Like, why are you getting a response? But then 48 hours later, they're like, and look, now we're on another podcast. It just.

Yeah. It's like PR. Like. Yeah. And the episode is called Unghosted. I just I can't. I'm'm here's what I'll say not to give you a compliment but I will give you a compliment Nick I think you know after your time on The Bachelor not any secret you had a lot of fans you had a lot of not fans and I think what

you've done really well is you've gone out and done your own thing. And yet we're talking about Bachelor today. So of course you talk about Bachelor, but your podcast is about relationships. You have therapists on like you've formed this really great podcast with your team here. And so far, granted, it's new. What we've seen from Chris's podcast is it's just let's talk about The Bachelor. And I just wonder, is that the whole podcast? Is he just let's talk about the bachelor and i just wonder is that the whole podcast is he just going to continuously try to capitalize off of the show that he left or is it that he's going to do something else you know i just wonder does the well run dry at a certain point i talked about when i first started the show i talked about certainly the bachelor at times we didn't

recap the bachelor when i first started the show I talked about certainly the bachelor at times we didn't recap the bachelor when I first started the show we would sprinkle it in here and there when it made sense because that was an active choice to try to build something outside of it but certainly you know I I knew where I came from so to speak so you try to find that balance yeah I mean he he's going hard to the paint so to speak mm-hmm wells and Ben, Caitlin, I think those are some of his early guests and we'll see how it goes.

I wish him nothing but the best in his podcast endeavors. It's certainly making a lot of headlines. Yeah, sure, yeah. I'm trying to be positive here. And you're like, sure. Yeah. I mean, the And you're like, sure. Yeah. Yeah, so. I mean, the headlines, you know, we like getting headlines.

It's nice to get headlines. No, but that's what I mean. People are talking about it. You try to find the headlines that have. I find, like, the headlines. Like, we often. I don't love. I hate.

I hate getting caught up in these types of headlines. Loathe. Like the he said, she said. Yeah. I hate, I hate getting caught up in these types of headlines. Loathe. And I've- Like the he said, she said. Yeah, and like certainly we've, I've been caught up in them even when I know I'm participating it, you know? And there's like a discussion I'm always having with myself

from my peers or my team, like, who gives a shit? Like, I just, let's just move on. And like sometimes I've given a shit. Other times I haven't. You know, we have this show and this show is what it is. And I think I am grateful for the overwhelming success of this show and the size of the show and the spotlight and target that this show has. And I look at it that way.

I can confirm. You really don't give a shit because there's some times that I see Nick in the headlines and I'll just text him as a friend and be like, oh, this is, hmm. And he gives it a thumbs up. Just like, I don't need to engage in this. And I get it.

I'm not perfect, that's for sure. I've definitely participated in stuff, but it's like, I feel like I respond far less than I, I choose not to respond far less than I do, especially given all the things I know. And sometimes when I hear stories, it's just like, where is this coming from? Like, what is this?

In what world is this coming out now Like, what is, what is this? What, what, in what world is this? Like, is this coming out now? And then in what context? And like, what is this? Is this, this seems made up.

I mean, like, it seems like there's truth to it, but also like your version of what it seems feels, I don't know. And it's just like, what? I don't know.

That's how I feel sometimes with some of these stories, but here we go. Here we are. I don't know. It's fine. Everything's fine. And sometimes with some of these stories. But here we go. Here we are. I don't know. It's fine. Everything's fine. What else we got? She brought you up.

Yeah. Speaking of. She said that producers sexualized you on her season. And she said there was one producer, after I would kiss him, she would come in and wipe my lips and lick her lips and be like oh i just want to know what it tastes like to make out with nick they really put him on a pedestal to me that was part of their tactic i was brainwashed i'm sorry did you not have a relationship before the show which is the reason that you went on her show she didn't meet you in this incubator to like brainwashed into liking you she liked you before

she's suggesting that because someone asked her uh i guess what my breath smells like or how i tasted that from that she had no opinions herself she was incapable of decision making also that was just so gross like that description i. I was like, we could have lived. I'm sure it probably had, I'm sure it was true. Oh, a hundred percent. That's why I'm like,

oh God, that's really gross. Like what do you, but like because of that, you guys had no other connection. Yeah, it was a bit graphic, but like what,

like that's brainwashing. I was like, doesn't the show sexualize everyone? Isn't that kind of the point? Like all those like group dates where they're like running around and like salad dressing and shirtless. It's like, it feels like like i don't know yeah i guess i guess she

was incapable it is it is interesting though to hear kind of the behind the scenes because when you're talking about the sexualizing you're saying what we see on camera but like could you imagine nick probably could he was on the show but like a producer coming up to you and like licking their lips like that's gross it is gross but i don't think that's the show, but like a producer coming up to you and like licking their lips, like that's gross. No, it is gross. But I don't think that's the only reason they had a connection. I can picture who it was. I know who it was, if it's true.

And I can tell you this person wasn't. Right, like it was probably a joke. Well, there's a little tiny bit more. Caitlin on why she didn't text nick nick congratulations on his engagement um apparently she did not text you congrats once uh the news was announced and she said he does this whole thing about not texting your ex so i was like is this me crossing a line so that's apparently the reason she didn't reach out. That doesn't make any sense. She said that you would only invite her to his wedding for the headlines, but that she would go if she and Jason scored an invite.

Interesting. Yeah. So I would do it for the headlines. Apparently. Despite her being on a media tour. She's still a little bit brainwashed, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The producer actually asked her to say that.

So Nick, the journalist in me, I have to ask a question. Are you inviting her to your wedding? No. Okay. And nor would I be invited. We're not. Well, I feel like you said you want to keep it. Also, she's not my ex.

Oh. You do. He said this before, though. He doesn't view Bachelor things like that as exes. Whatever. I think the whole thing is kind of dumb. I also think it's interesting for her to be talking. So like the show brainwashed me.

The producer did this. And I was like, you were the Bachelorette. You went on to host then the Bachelorette. And when she came on our show, she said that she very much wanted to continue hosting the Bachelorette, specifically the season with two of them. She wanted to keep working with them. But then Jessie got all of them. She said she was really hurt by that and now it's like well the show did this the producers of this

and whatever and i'm like i doubt she would be saying this stuff if she was still working for them yeah it does come off like a tiny bit scorned which i think is like very human like to just kind of be like oh you don't want me well fuck you like you know like i think that's like a very like human reaction to have but it does i think for someone who like started I think that's, like, a very, like, human reaction to have. But it does. I think for someone who, like, started out on the show as, like, such, like, a positive, kooky, funny, like, person. It's this direction just, like, feels like kind of a departure from, like, the way that I feel like I was introduced to her. And, like, the vibe I got from her, like, based on, like, the content that she creates. Like, that feels like it's really coming from the heart. Like, this just kind of feels like.

Like, why are we unearthing random stuff?'s what else seems to be a lot lately though yeah so this is what i was gonna say and i think largely maybe because of chris's podcast i think there's a lot of former bachelor news making its way into headlines and so i really like caitlin i don't know her personally at all like i've always really i've interviewed her one or two times i've always really liked her i actually um i liked a lot of what she said on this recent podcast but like it's kind of hard to point a finger at any which person because let's be honest you included nick love you but let's be honest you guys all use the bachelor for your own benefit and you know that and you say that all the time. That's kind of my, I don't understand about all this stuff. It's just like, I...

And by the way, you'd be foolish not to, right? I don't defend the show. I mean, they have, it's just like, it's the cherry picking that some of my peers seem to do when it's beneficial to them

to criticize certain things when, I tell you who felt really manipulated and brainwashed on caitlin's season this guy who has two thumbs and felt brainwashed and it wasn't just from producers and and also as i've pointed out several times uh i'm internally grateful for how things played out and while angry and brainwashed and manipulated in the moment, I have said thank you to people, including Caitlin, about how things played out, whether they were deserving of that thank you or not, or whether they had my best intentions in the moment or not, I'm still grateful of all of it. And so I just try to look at it from that level and that lens,

from like 30,000 feet, rather than than today I'm going to play the victim because it serves me well and tomorrow I'm going to pretend when it's affecting someone else that it's it's it's a TV show and it's always easy to villainize the edit like it's kind of this built-in scapegoat of the medium of like yeah this is like quote-unquote a reality TV show but we all know how heavily curated like the storylines we get are. And so because of that like built in element of it, you can kind of cherry pick when you want to sort of say, well, you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. And these are the things that were actually happening and sort of suit whatever narrative at the moment you're feeling the most. And people can't really fact check you in the same way. And the people who

can like don't want to because it was 10 years ago totally and look most alums from this show do that and you're absolutely right if they called her tomorrow and said we want you to host she would be signing that contract immediately so it's and that goes to everyone i'm not saying that's a bad thing like this is what this show does is you talk about it to get headlines and to stay relevant and it by the way kind of going back to our conversation before of like the bachelor is dead isn't this proof that it's not like people are obsessed with hearing about it and talking about it people are invested and they're invested and that's what all the alums and bachelor nation know so talk about it talk shit on it praise it when it works for you it's all this like vicious cycle that's just part of it and

everyone knows it like i don't think caitlin would be offended to hear that we're saying like oh you're talking about it because it puts you in the headlines but you'd also sign a contract to host like that makes sense it's what you should do you came off of a reality show i will say there are definitely moments where i like uh like when I heard about this headline, I was reminded of a particular story that happened a good year and a half after Caitlyn's season that involved Caitlyn and me. Are you going to tell us?

No. Are you sure? Yeah. I was reminded of that story and I remember thinking that would have been fun to tell. No. There's a microphone in front of you.

It's just not worth it. And that's the thing. It's just I don't, ultimately I don't think it's all that big of a deal. But I think it would be made into a huge deal got it in a sense and I just I don't want to create that headache it's just yeah there are things that I get brought I I get I'm reminded of that it's just like you know I you know like

see this is so much I don't tell you know it's, you know, like. See, this is also. So much I don't tell. You know, it's frustrating. I mean, I think. But it would completely invalidate her whole point. Sure it would. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick. It's not. I know, it's not worth it, but it would, it would just completely point to the fact that that's not true. Wait, do you know the story? They know the story. Yeah. Keep it on the scene.

I'll tell you afterwards. Okay. That's not true. Wait, do you know the story? They know the story. I'll tell you later. I'll tell you afterwards. Okay, great. But again, I think what this kind of proves is to us, like who are not involved in the show, like I view this as both a fan but also a media person who's kind of saying like, yeah, like they're reality stars. We're going to use this to their benefit and get headlines and blah, blah, blah. But we do forget like this was your life

and you are embroiled in this and there's things that you guys know that we don't. But yeah, on some level, it was like, it's an interesting take

you have about something that like I experienced literal trauma during. But like, cool. Right. You know,

there's that thought for sure. But that's like, we forget like it's literally your life. Like yes, there's cameras, but like it's your life. And that's like, we forget like it's literally your life. Like, yes, there's cameras, but like, it's your life. And that's what I think sometimes when we just talk about the show, we forget, like there are real people involved

and real feelings involved. But at the end of the day, I get to be here with y'all and I get to do this for a living. And the downside of all that is some of this little silliness, but it does does great content. There is that. What else we got?

Just some solemn news to kind of wrap up our Bachelor headlines. Sarah Heron shared the awful news that her baby passed away after she gave birth at 24 weeks. She said that her son, Oliver Brown, was born on January 28th when she was 24 weeks pregnant and passed away in his dad's arms shortly after. That's, that's so heartbreaking. I mean.

Yeah. Goes without, you know, being said, it's so heartbreaking and so sad, but I will say I'm glad that she shared this, not just for herself to, you know, to be open. she shared this not just for herself to you know to be open but this is going to help so many people because there's so many issues with pregnancy and child loss and you know I'm miscarriage miscarriage yeah I mean I'm it we're all around this age like all my friends are getting pregnant and getting engaged and all then you just you unless people talk about, you don't realize how common this is. Maybe not this exact situation, which is very severe and just horrible. But I really applaud her for sharing this

because I think it does help so many people who are going through miscarriages and child loss. Agreed. All right, well, should we get into the episode? Let's do it. Let's go. So you like this season so far. I don't.

I'm okay with it. Yeah. You like it? I like it. I thought the first episode was really boring, and I think it's just gotten better since. And I thought this week's episode was really good. Like, I really liked it.

There was, yeah. There was much. It felt like there was more to talk about, for sure, last week it just was like where is this going i don't really know what are your thoughts on zach so i totally get the narrative of like the boring bachelor like he is kind of boring but i think he's a really good guy he's incredibly earnest and i like how he's handling all of this though like i feel like things come up and he's just very matter of fact and like he's not wasting people's time he has no problem being like yep like this isn't gonna work you can go home where i think in the past people

think i know it's not gonna work but it's a reality show so you can stay so there's a lot that i'm impressed by him also like i get it like he is kind of boring but i think also to your point i think they're investing in hopefully finding a love story and i think it's gonna be nice because i feel like that was our biggest issue with gabby and rachel season which it was just hard because time was split there were so many guys there's two girls and i felt like a lot of the criticism I was experiencing and heard from other people is by the time

we reached the end of the season, they had their top three. We were kind of like, what do you like about each other? Who are you? Where's the connection? I think we won't deal with that same frustration for sure.

Zach, I was watching this episode and Zach sometimes feels like, he seems like a really sweet, honest, earnest, wonderful guy. Yeah.

He's all wonderful. But like at times he's like, when he's, when like I call it a swag Zach, when swag Zach shows up, you know, it's, it's a little,

wait, what's swag? Well, when Zach tries to have some swag, you know, when he's all like in his leather jacket. Yeah Wait, what's swag, Zach? Well, when Zach tries to have some swag. Okay. You know, when he's all like... In his leather jacket. Yeah.

When he's like... When you can tell he's just like, I'm the bachelor, you know? Like, I'm... Like letting himself feel himself a little bit. Yeah, he's feeling himself. It just... The reason I ask what is that is I'm like,

I don't really see him having much swag. No, I know. Yeah. And when he does, he comes he comes across swag zach comes across as like the the 80s high school movie and he was swag zach comes across as the too good to be true guy who like who who presented really well to uh the girlfriend's father and did all the right things and he you know he's like captain of the football team yeah yeah but like he has the dark side and i don't think zach has a dark side but swag zach comes across as the as like the uh hot guy with a secret like the jerk boyfriend

in the 80s rom-coms when the nerd would finally be the hero and zach is like the that's swag zach and then and then and then the most like when when zach's having fun zach looks like he's like it's like he's prince charming in a bad kids cartoon yeah that's actually very good that's very good like i don't know how to describe it it's like a real cheesy like cartoon network kids show and and zack's the prince because he has a very kind of bone structure and i just i only see these two zacks now yeah which is like cheesy prince charming in a cartoon like hey now i can't unsee that swag zach which is like i don't know you see like some shady you're up to some shady shit i don't know but i don't he uses his head a lot he's always yes yes

i want him to be my financial advisor i really feel like what does he do for work do we know he's swag zach he seems like he would be does he have a job not currently no but he was a sales executive at oracle senior cloud technology sales executive like great job yeah like literally the job i had just for salesforce total like i feel like he seems like a very and we can get into he i mean he yeah wow this that's all tracks yeah yeah because like i think and we'll get into this throughout the episode, but he really, he says no bullshit and he means it. He's not just saying that because he thinks it sounds cool.

I think he very earnestly is like, I have to maintain a level of cleanliness in the show so that way I can meet people. He's like a clean game. He's blowing the whistle early as a ref. He's very intense about all of his decision making. Oh, yeah. He's very thoughtful.

Definitive. And like like i'll say like like you know he has the purity of a ben higgins almost it seems like but like i think ben you know and ben would acknowledge this cares a lot about what people think we all do to a certain degree. And I feel like Zach is making decisions truly based on what he thinks is right or wrong and less about necessarily what people think. Or I just think Ben was maybe more self-aware about perception than maybe Zach was. Yeah, I agree with that. Does that seem fair?

Totally. I think you're right. He's just making his decisions and not thinking about making decisions for a show. Yeah. And what I keep saying to people, because a lot of my friends are like, he's so boring, blah, blah, blah.

This is what I've been saying. He's a really, really nice guy and someone who in real life, you might want to date, but he's not a reality star that's a thing too you know we're nowadays we're talking about you know better date than never talk about dating we're hearing all these horror stories from people dating specifically women about all these terrible men and these men who do x y and z and even on this date with uh kelly kelly katie katie you know she's just asking

for the bare minimum and you know i don't know how people are going to respond to zach in this episode but yeah like so far what zach hasn't done uh he hasn't like he hasn't giving you a reason like not to think he is boyfriend or husband material. Right. You know? Like, he might not be your cup of tea. You know? You might not have a sexual fantasy about the guy.

He might not. You might not get the spark. And he might not make you feel unsafe. And he might not, like, like you know confuse you in a way where you say things like i just don't know what it is about him but i just like want to like oh i'm just so obsessed like he might not make you feel that but like maybe this is the type of shit that like you we we need and and partners and and despite you know and so maybe maybe maybe bachelor abc is putting uh the audience's money where their mouth is so to speak and saying we found the most

boring safest high character uh emotionally mature 26 year old that we could find yeah and unlike clayton who couldn't like you know think of anyone's feelings but himself and didn't seem to like either whether it was like processing speed for clayton you know it's just like i don't know i just it's going to take me four days to think about your needs so like i know i'm just focused on mine and maybe it was this like a a you know mental capacity element but like zach has shown us time he he showed us with rachel his ability to like listen to what she said and respond to her me like that doesn't make sense like you know like and but but also calmly talk to her and you know stand his ground and in with these women he's again he's engaged in these conversations

and he's getting to know them. And it's not done necessarily in the most charismatic way. And it's goofy. But isn't that what, for the ladies listening, that's what you're saying y'all want. Right. And that's what I'm saying. He's doing everything right.

He's not leading anyone on he very decisive as you said i don't know who said that but someone said that very decisive like thinks about his decision and just makes it doesn't keep him around so yeah like in a way that could be boring because he's not being overly dramatic and he's not being an asshole and he's just being direct. But I do think this is kind of the grounding season for The Bachelor where they read what's going on. Like they see what fans are saying and they know that the last few seasons

have not been the best. Like it's been a rocky road. No one's liked their Bachelor literally since me and I was polarizing, you know? but like i get that all the time where people liked matt james right not as the bachelor no they liked his the people who are fans of tyler and there was a lot of those fans who followed the crew and and if you you know and matt james had a couple hundred thousand followers at the time you know because of his buddy tyler sure like those people

got excited and obviously being the first black bachelor that was a monumental and wonderful like you know step in the right direction for the franchise after like years of not doing that but all that aside when his season started airing yeah no people i think you're right people liked him but maybe not as the bachelor yeah people loved i remember like the first night the first episode of matt's season i was so it was all downhill and then i was like oh no yeah it's like oh he's never been in love it was all yeah but even like you know like my my season like i've talked about like the the bouncy castle with corinne like that was a moment where i was like all all right, I'll fucking do this.

I'll take one for the team. Where credit to Zach is like, either they're not insisting he do shit like this or he's, you know, and at the time I'm thinking, all right, whatever TV, I'll take it on the chin here. And I think there at times has been this kind of juggling act and balancing act between producers of, we have to come up with good tv we have to have some of

these moments we have to have like peaks and valleys and arcs and things like that even to the detriment of their bachelor or bachelorette to put them in these you know the bouncy castle like i very much was setting myself up to look to the guy who only is keeping corinne around because i was set you know physically attracted to her. And in reality, like she's a beautiful woman. Like she wasn't even like on my radar as a potential like

person to hang out with. Oh, okay. Not even Matt. You're like, take a step back. Just a wonderful person. So I don't really

got a backup. And Zach is not either being, he's not being put in these positions or he is resisting those positions that he's being asked to put in. So since you said that no one's liked The Bachelor

since yourself, I had to refresh. And this is actually, you know, we forget when things happen. So after you was Ari, then Colton. Colton, Colton as The Bachelor fairly, was fairly like was popular popular and then he became a stalker yes i did his cover story variety so i will move on from that okay then we had peter that didn't go well peter gave us such i saw a tiktok recently and they were re-watching hannah

brown season it's like oh i miss this peter like the peter had that so much promise and then he went on to his season and ended up with three different women and it was just chaos but peter on hannah brown's season but yeah yeah and then we had matt and then we had clayton and now we're here so yeah but yeah point proven but um no i think as much as a lot of the fans are like, this is boring, I actually think that in hindsight, it's going to work because there hasn't been a huge investment in past seasons, both Bachelor and Bachelorette, meaning it's just been about the drama and these storylines, but no love story to hang on to. So when the season ends, you're kind of like, eh. So I think that if this season works, it could be a grounding season to kind of bring it back to where it was yeah we will we'll see we'll see if it's it really comes down to like what we're saying do does the audience latch on to what we are assuming is going to be some love stories you know and i guess certainly some drama but like

by the end of the season come hometowns will be invested in the relationship relationships and and that will be um the big big story and they're very much setting it up like they they very much want zach to be the new figurehead of it's like they're setting it up for zach to get engaged and them trying to, as much as they can, have this whatever new relationship be a figurehead relationship. Sean Lowe 2.0. Sure, yeah.

I mean, yeah. I mean, the fact that they're bringing him back as much as they are is hysterical. Wait, can I tell you? So when I started this episode, I was watching with Michael, my fiance, who, by the way, until we met, had never seen an episode of anything on The Bachelor. His first season that he watched was Clayton. So we start watching the episode and Michael says to me, he's like, I think this is the wrong episode. This is episode one. He's like, we already watched this. And I was like, oh my God, you're right. Sean Lowe's back. And then I clicked clicked and it was like episode three and i was very confused for a moment because they never do that yeah and they could have done that and not aired it and the fact that they did it and aired it like that to me that tells me that like yeah that's they're really drilling that home i mean i honestly i expect

them to bring sean and katherine back multiple times even, they'll be at, they will be at AFR. Like if this all goes the way I think it could go, they're really, it's going to be, you know. So my question for the group is of the women so far, who do you think gives off the most like Catherine vibes? Oh,

Catherine vibes. I don't know. I feel like, I don't, I don't, I mean, honestly, I think Katie,

after that one-on-one date, she- He likes Ariel, though. She really came out of nowhere. Well, that's hysterical, that whole- No, but just like- Why is it hysterical? Well, because, what was it? Was it Bailey?

Bailey burned out fast. It was so sad. Fine, but yeah, but right before he talked it was it right before he talked to errol he was talking to bailey yes and bailey i love that conversation that conversation went like something like this uh they were talking about not being the same page and then zach's like well like how do you feel and bailey goes i feel good it's just that i feel this is super weird good but weird and then you know what I loved is after that no I feel good but but weird but but it feels super weird but it's good and and then because

I don't know if it was Bailey but it was just like it was the juxtaposition of I think it was Bailey but he was talking to someone who wanted more from Zach. I wanted, yeah, I wanted a validation. Like here is a woman who, and maybe Zach's obviously wasn't feeling Bailey for whatever reason, but she's saying to, she sits down to Zach and I guess here I'm criticizing Zach a little bit. It's for fun, but like she's like,

I need, I need, I want to, you know, I want validation. Let's talk. Let's, let's have a conversation and all.

He's just like, yeah, you know, like he goes, whatever. Uh, yeah, you know, like he goes, whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. That's the hardest thing is those were that's Zach responding. And, you know, whatever. He just wasn't into it. And then and then Ariel sits down and right as Zach has said I don't want to lie I do feel like things have changed and that's the moment that Ariel comes and interrupts them yeah and then she sits down and Zach goes

you're just so much fun and they just start making out and it just like is set it just sets him up as that that scene set him up as I don't really care about the conversations I don't want to get to know It just sets him up as that scene set him up as, I don't really care about the conversations. I don't want to get to know you.

I want a simple, fun, like woman who doesn't want to challenge me or have conversations. Just be simple and agreeable and fun and tell jokes and let's make out. Now, I'm not saying that's Ariel or that's Zach, but that's how that all kind of came across in that moment something had to have been edited out of course like that's why they edited it that way is kind of what i'm saying you know they edit it where it was like let's you're so much fun make out because if there was no editing it was literally like five words and then just full going but then there was another moment with ariel where

where he just kind of gave had his little mom it's like i like ariel yeah just yeah well they had their whole make out in the pool and how he described his what he likes about ariel he didn't say anything about her other than that she was basically like simple and fun but here's the thing sometimes you don't know what it is about a person, right, that you really like. It's just as a match or it's not. So with and I'm kind of being devil's advocate here. I was shocked that Bailey, it kind of didn't work. And he's just like, OK, you can go home. That to me, I don't know if we've ever seen that like such a quick decision but i think again what you were saying before nick is sometimes you keep people around just to kind of keep them around and i don't know if the producers aren't pressuring him or if he's taking a stand but he's just kind of like i'm not feeling it that's fine you can go and if i am i'm sure with ariel it's just like yeah i mean being the like it's so much work to be the bachelor and maybe in in this bubble in this world maybe she is easy to be around and fun

and fun to make out with and he is like on all these like conversations where he's talking to a bunch of women that deep down he's just like i don't like you yeah but i can't say that so what do you want to talk about yeah let me active listen to you and there there is a lot of that so maybe ariel sits down and maybe maybe they you know we haven't seen any emotional connection yet but like there's a vibe and she's just like hey man i don't i got no questions but like what's up you know and zach's like i don't have any questions either you know like yeah and maybe sure yeah it's just it's it was not edited yes prozac in that moment and i laughed i mean maybe that's where they're getting their drama no i laughed too because the editing just makes it seem like wait wait what just happened did i

miss something they're making out and both scenes by the way with them like then she got in the pool and it was like and they're making out there's been no conversation yeah it was like a like lap on the hot tub oh yeah yeah i was this was pointed out by derek katherine is now cat so he sent home cat and then gave reusing her name and then reusing her nickname oh justice for cat you really were she was memorable she was fantastic television she was she was really great expression i mean not only is zach boring he really is eliminating all the interesting people he preserves his energy like i think he's like feels good enough about his top however many connections that he's like i why would i put in

any effort trying to salvage a connection that's going like taking a nosedive when i feel great about the ones at the top like we see that with brianna we see that with bailey yeah he was not fighting for any of them to really stay. It was like, no, sounds good, bye. Listen, wait, I get that. I'm more surprised

that the show really isn't going along with this because, like, Christina. Yeah, yeah. Help me, help me, help me, help me. I could not have been more wrong about her. I mean, between her having a kid

and her obviously big personality like she definitely has bachelorette material yeah no like so i okay so i like i'm gonna miss her and i feel like i want her back yeah but here's the thing like she kind of had a villain edit but then also there was also kind of this redemption arc and there's something about her that i'm like you're a villain but i don't hate you well i mean at all because no one's really a villain in this world she's just like she she has all the makings of a bachelor event villain which is sarcastic and a big personality and that's all you really need like and and you're not like you don't walk into that room just kind of worried about everyone and just not focused on not stepping on anyone's toes and just trying to be everyone's best friend.

And that's what most people do. And Christina obviously is not one of those people. And yeah, so like, but I'm just, you know, she obviously said, you know, and it was delusional on her part when she didn't get the group date rose and she was just like, I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed. Like. I was like, whoa. That was amazing.

Yeah. Like. No, that was, when she said that, I was like, wait, wait, hold on. I mean, she definitely is spoiled, right? Like she's self-centered and spoiled like can we fair to say can we make that that connection because it's like i loved it i love that she isn't necessarily worried about other you know like it's is it the normal thing to do if you're in a world to pursue a relationship and and you have a limited amount of time and we're always to like,

to be happy for other people. I get that logic. I understand being disappointed, but the way in which she went about it, the fact that she truly like, you know, that's the difference between like, uh,

being a child. And I guess being an adult is like, we all have feelings. And then what we do with those feelings are two different things. And she, you know, cause sometimes they'll edit you what, usually what they do.

And then, and I've had this happen to me, right? I had this happen to me in Andy season and that situation where someone gets the group date rose and someone else's bum. And it usually that person who's already had validation usually the way that's edited is they they capture you kind of pouting because you're all on the couch in reality you all have cameras on you so every facial

expression every zone out every zone out every body movement is captured on camera for them to use whenever they want and so what they usually would do is this like focus on you pouting or making a weird face whether that was the natural reaction or maybe something you did earlier in the night who knows and then they would interview you like in an itm and get you to talk about like hey so that must have been a bummer and you'd be like yeah i was like bummed and then they would like put that together and play some villainous music and all of a sudden you're an inconsiderate spoiled selfish person who can only be happy for yourself and in reality you're just a human being who was a little bummed and then was honest when asked how you felt about it and they only took the first part of that sentence where you said you were upset,

not the second part where you said, but I understand. But Christina was like sitting there and being like, nah, this is fucked up. I should have cut that roast. It was one of those moments that you're like, that's what you think in your head, but you don't say out loud.

And she just said it. She was like, what? And then she was like, wait, what do you mean? Like, of course this is how I feel. And it's like, yeah. Of course this is how I feel. I don't want to look at it. We're kind of on reality TV. I thought how I feel. And it's like, yeah. Of course this is how I feel. I don't want to look at it. We're on reality TV.

I thought it was funny. I thought it was hysterical. But also, if that's how she really felt, and if that's how she really thought that was the best way to handle it, then yeah, I think she's been, she has been the center of attention, I think, for most of her life. So I thought the moment was funny. And then I thought how after she didn't understand the problem,

that's where I was like, huh? Like you really don't see how this could be problematic and hurt someone's feelings. Yeah, right? Yeah. Also, can we talk about during the rose ceremony, her facial expressions were wild. Like that was a journey when she wasn't being called.

Yeah. What was going on there? She's making, Christina's eye contact is very, she's actually put it on TikTok. She made like a mashup of her staring at Taylor Swift at the end of the 15 music video and her staring at Zach at a rose ceremony and they're very similar looks.

Cat's gone, Christina's carrying the torch. We need some facial reactions. Yeah. And then Brianna, I mean, RIP. America's sweetheart. She was never meant for Zach,anna i mean r.i.p america's sweetheart she was never meant for zach that's for sure she's i mean let's just say they're just not in the same league i don't know whose league is better but they're just not in the same different leagues she i find brianna to be a fascinating person and of yeah why? I mean, she's beautiful and just,

there's a lot there, I'm very interested. Yeah. I just, I do think she's a fake crier. And I think she was playing the game and I think to Zach's credit, that's what he picked up on. I think when Zach was talking about something feels off with you, I think Zach Zach was like you don't like me and I don't really believe right and you're trying to goat me into saying no tell me the name of the girl who was mean to you like I think it

was stuff like that and I think Brianna like I don't necessarily fault her like she showed up on a tv show she probably thinks this is all bullshit I don't even like this guy but I'll play the game what totally and she probably thought yeah you're handsome you're I don't even like this guy but I'll play the game what totally and she probably thought yeah you're handsome you're nice whatever you just my guy and I think Zach intuitively picked up on it yeah and sent her home but it seems like such a shame to have

that level of person to come on the show and it's episode three and and we couldn't find that that part makes me mad about zach being the bachelor you know because you're like you're taking this a little too literally like we know you guys don't like each other but just keep around no not even little literally i guess what i mean is i would want a bachelor who could keep up with someone like brianna and and and capture

her attention and have her interest and actually get her to want to be genuine and open up and not, and again, I could be totally wrong, but my analysis of the situation is, she wasn't into him and he could sense that. But he has like 30 women on the first night. It's up to him to be like please open up open up like i feel like they have to kind of meet him there brianna is the type of person that for some

guys or a lot of guys would just be like holy shit like blown away and then like i mean again credit to zach for being emotionally mature to like not like I guess. You might be the hottest woman in the world. Not chase the shiny, pretty, captivating thing as we all, many of us do. Again, speaks to Zach's, what seems like his emotional maturity. I'm just like mad that we can't have a bachelor who could want her to open up and really get to know someone

then as she seems dynamic seems dynamic brianna i think you hit it on the head though which is she never liked him and she knows she doesn't like him which i kind of love that she wasn't even pretending to be like pick me pick me she was just like well what else am i going to talk about okay there's some shit going on in the house so i'm going to open up that can of worms yeah so i just it's like yeah it was like someone like falling off a cliff and like grabbing christina's ankle to like yank her down with her when she was like christina made me cry multiple times like she was like i'm i'm not asking you whether or not i should name names i am going for it at this point yeah she never liked

him that's that i think that's the best point that you've made about this and now that i think about it she's like i'm too good for you this isn't gonna be a thing so let's just good or whatever it's just like you're not we're not it and yeah and i just i don't i don't want zach to only be in love falling in love with i guess it's it's just like oh no guys ever treated me nice ever and I'm just looking for the bare minimum. And then there's Zach being like, you deserve more. I can do that. I can definitely do more than the bare minimum.

And I believe that he can. I believe Zach has every intention of wanting to not only do the bare minimum, but being a genuinely loving and caring for partner. I just wish our bachelor would have the ability to captivate the attention of more what seem like fascinating people. Can I ask you about the Katie date?

I really want to get your take on this. Yeah, shoot. Was I the only one who was very surprised that there was like an overnight setup up for them like that doesn't happen they're really fucking with the people this season right in to the note of the they're doing it in the love story way yeah they're like we're like you're gonna meet the

whole family and then go back to the house and tell all the girls about it you're gonna creep over meeting the family oh yeah yeah that was like they're really like they're I think they're trying to they're doing this like, they're... I think they're trying to... They're doing this, like, very kind of, like, sneaky, like, getting in people's heads in a way that is still, like, serves the purpose of the show and still, like, builds the connection.

But I... Yes. But I... Like, they don't... Am I wrong? Like, they don't do overnights ever before. Like, that's unprecedented. Like, has that ever happened before fantasy world

i mean you had caitlin and i had our little charade which wasn't even an overnight but it was certainly alone time right uh but an actual what is called overnight i don't right because i feel like sometimes they do it but it's not staged like like or it is staged where it's not really an overnight. Like this was set, I shouldn't use the word staged because that makes it seem fabricated. What I mean is like this was set up

that the date is that you have beds set up. Planned. I don't believe that they actually spent the night in that tent. You don't? No. I also loved how the beds were like apart. Yeah. Like twin air mattresses.

Yeah. I don't believe that they actually spent the, they didn't spend the night in that tent and if they spent the night together they left the tent and and maybe went to a hotel room that's possible well they said they didn't sleep at all when she got back she was like i didn't sleep like i'm running on any amount i don't doubt that either and i could be wrong i just like that was that's the an actual museum and i don't doubt that either and I could be wrong I just like that was that's the an actual museum and I don't doubt that they were able to rent it out and film there but like I don't think they slept there all night you know what I'm saying like they wouldn't have let like when you do a

fantasy suite right like you have the crew film everything and and then you have the date and that's film and you sit down you do all the bullshit and there's the fake food there are drinks or whatever and then literally like you wrap and so like it takes a good 15 20 minutes for like them to like pull whatever need to pull some lighting whatever and the producers will give you like final like all right well here's a again this was back in the day here's a phone if you need anything call us you know there's always like a there's like each one has a handler like up all night just in case something you know it gets weird or uncomfortable or someone you know just you know they have people standing by and you know what i'm saying so they didn't just like leave the museum with these two there and they didn't just like leave them in i mean they didn't

leave them in a museum you know what i'm them in a museum. You know what I'm saying? Like, think about it. Logistically, if they spent the night there, did the producers spend the night with them? No. If you zoomed out, there's a second tent. I mean, but you know, they weren't left alone. I can tell you that much.

Ben Stiller was there, the guard. So I just, they're, logistically, it definitely did not go down exactly how it was aired that's for sure on a typical fantasy suite date you go on the dinner portion it's fake dinner you're then released for the night can you like order room service when do you eat great question before and maybe after are you hungry you definitely always eat before dates okay and then like for a fantasy suite they definitely i mean you have limited time so food usually is not top of the party i would never make it in this show uh i'd be like chicken tenders now oh but yeah you could yeah for sure that's you can they you can eat for sure. Just checking. It seems like Katie, based on the 101,

it seems like she's a real contender. It was getting minimum homes. I agree. Oh, yeah. I mean, at this point, I feel like all my predictions have been atrocious. But I think she's definitely a new front runner. Also, I was caught off by her beauty in a sense.

I did not notice her the first two weeks, but she's pretty. Very pretty. Very pretty. She has a very, yeah, just a very pretty look. Also going- And I bet that she's prettier in person. Uh-huh, yeah.

Yeah. Whether or not they slept over at the museum it was pretty savage to have her walk in and pajamas oh yeah i'm like really but would it have been worse to do her really exactly yeah i that's a good question is pajamas or the clothing she was wearing the day before worse oh outfit there's no good option right because at least now they know she's she had something to sleep in but pajamas suggest that they they shared a moment yes yeah and her showing up in the same clothes doesn't in a different way different way and they are very much again i think they they are going out of their way to their the balancing act of still fucking with the women versus like two separate beds like long the old-fashioned

pajamas there was nothing they there was literally nothing sexy about those yeah no horrifying the opposite running around the museum in matching silk pajamas like the least sexy thing you could ever do we just run right let's just run around the dinosaur yeah like my worst like six-year-old energy yeah no shade but like that was the prince that was the prince of the cartoon network yeah that was not swag zach that was not swag zach do you think they told her anything because i'm like if i were on that date and i didn't pack like a skincare routine or anything you're gonna make me go to bed without taking my makeup off? That's rough.

That would have almost, if she, again, wherever she spent the night, they thought of that stuff. I would have been pissed. I'm like, where is my moisturizer? How do they know what you need? Yeah. They always know what you need. They probably got-

They're gonna have my prescriptions. Yeah, they always like- So many legis- Before the day, they, yeah, it's like, here's what you should wear like you know what do you have to fit the accommodate this type of weather or this type of activity yada yada yada you might need an extra change of clothes you know whatever yeah it's like they always you always get the you're you're prepared they're making sure you're prepared okay even if you being

prepared is you being unprepared but they're preparing you to be unprepared you know what i'm saying maybe she even had an inclination that there would be some sort of overnight because they might have to be like pack your moisturizer pack those probiotics and they also she left in the evening for this date. Yeah. So I'm sure there's a part of her hoping like, I didn't just get shorted with like an only evening portion of a one-on-one.

Hopefully there's some other additional something. We'll have to, we'll have to ask her. Yeah, those matching pajamas. But yeah. Atrocious.

They have to keep thinking of new ways. I mean, whatever. It's something new. You know, I liked it. Whatever.

You know, it fucks with the women a little bit great you know what it gabby seems like she's getting a lot of air time and but like is she who's so who's gonna be the new villain we don't have brianna not that she was ever built we don't have christina we lost bailey brooklyn is tell brooklyn stood up to to Christina and she was the one who said, have you ever considered literally shutting the fuck up? But I kind of liked it because I felt like she was just, it was less villainous

and more just calling it like it was. Yeah. Who is the girl who's going, who's the woman who's going to piss off the house? That's always the question. When you ask yourself, who is your next villain? Anastasia. It's who's's gonna piss off the house anastasia because they were all mad at her for milking her injury anyways at the football game yeah maybe but she's also 30 and i feel like no one's gonna worry about

a 30 year old woman let me finish my sentence she's also 30 and i think she has like uh i think she's like leader vibes like i think she is someone who is like clearly emotional mature like the way zach always describes her is like she's a badass like i think she is someone who's just like very together and like beyond kind of like the pettiness that you like yeah i don't think anastasia i i think the football it's like yeah sure they made a note out of it i don't know but i don't think it's a big deal i could i could see greer who else gabby just i will tell you that was unfortunate for gabby and i like they're they're miked up and they go don't worry we won't tell anyone well they didn't the bachelor did exactly

yeah um that's horrifying do we agree with that like do we like do we think they should have aired that so like i thought it was funny but I guess it depends on the person. I mean, yeah, I thought it was funny, too. But, like, I guess what I'm saying is if it were me, I would be like, that's funny. But I could also see someone being horrified and being embarrassed. I wouldn't be.

I would make my friends throw me a yearly party where it was, like, the anniversary of me pissing myself on The Bachelor, if that happened to me on. But, like, she got tackled and like what a little pee came out right that's why i'm like that's a big deal jeff does that if we play a little rough jeff might like leak a little bit he also when he's excited yeah yeah existing just jeff be pissing yeah one thing about your dog maybe she had to pee before this

football game then she she gets tackled. That's horrifying. And like, how are you supposed to hold that in? That's a nightmare. Yeah, you can't. I pee like 20 times a day because I drink so much water. So I feel for her. I feel for her.

But I'm going to switch off the pee subject because you mentioned Greer quickly. And when I interviewed Jesse Palmer before the season started, I asked him, I always ask this question. I say, who should we keep an eye on? And I asked that because no one really knows how to answer it cause I'm not saying like who's a front runner, who's a villain, whatever. And he said, he was like Greer.

He's like, definitely keep an eye on Greer. She's very interesting. And I haven't really seen much happen with her yet. So I feel like there's something coming. But she came out of the gate, she got the first impression rose and for a first impression rose she's really disappeared correct so there's something that's gonna happen well because i wonder if she's gonna

get the one-on-one next week because they gave us when it was the group date reading the card and it was like who's it gonna be hers was the last name on it of like and they had this whole like talking out of her being like i could really use a one-on-one time with zach so i wonder if they're priming us for next week she's gonna be our one-on-one. I feel like this is typical though like you don't jump from getting the first impression rose to getting an immediate one-on-one. If you're Abigail you never get one.

But she really has disappeared. Yeah it's not so much she's just disappeared. You know you can get a first impression rose and get a lot of airtime, even if you're not getting dates. I mean, even on the group,

we're not seeing any conversations between her and Zach. I mean, it's... And I guess, I mean, maybe this is a sign of... It's not as boring of a season as we worry because the producers were okay with Christina going home. Right. That was shocking to me. I was shocked that she went home.

And there are so many women left that even if Zach was like, I hate her, they could have been like, fine. But just give it a couple weeks. Like, what else? For Christina to go home solely based off of Zach being like, this ain't my girl. based off of Zach being like, this ain't my girl.

And really, he has to be more interested in all the other women. You know what I'm saying? Because what usually happens is Zach has his four or five or six or even seven favorites. Let's say eight favorites. How many women are still left? 14. Right? So what I'm saying is it's like,

like there's some of these women on here, like the producers are like whatever about and Zach's whatever about. Agreed. And they're still here. Right. And say what you want about Christina is that we knew who she was. She was the best television-

She's good TV. That we had, and she was getting all the airtime, and it was funny and compelling, or you hated her, which is also great, you know? And it's week three, and they were like, you know what, we don't need her. Right. Hmm.

I also wonder if she Bachelorette contender and they maybe thought she could get too villainous and they're like we don't want to deal with this although i think it's too early to tell like in filming they're not yeah i don't think they're filming that early and to that point i think they uh the producers are very good at what they do yeah but if they really wanted her that you can it's easy to protect someone in the house it's easy to protect them in the edit you know what I'm

saying it's we did get a CTA though that said are you a single dad looking for a partner to go through life with yeah that was a very specific so Andy had her enemies in the house when you know when you never saw that before she was a bachelorette you know like it's so right like they could have just had a really great redemption arc for her heartbreak i've just said there's just no way

they're like you know what we want you to be the next bachelorette you need to go home now before you can't help yourself right i also think there's a lot of girls on this season that we don't know enough about them yet but seem to be bachelorette material uh yeah like quite a few yeah like katherine katherine i still think charity i really like charity yeah i still think katherine has some crazy in her you know who i love is genevieve also i feel like i would totally watch Genevieve as Bachelorette. Why? She just has like I think she has really good energy and

it seems like she's someone who is incredibly fun like Ariel but fun in a way that feels really like grounded and I just feel like she would just be like a great bud to go through life with. I like Jess. I just feel like she might be a little young.

How old is she? 23. Hannah Brown was 23. I guess, yeah. Yeah. I don't see her as Bachelorette. Oh, I do. You do?

Yeah. Huh. She has, like, a real unassuming, like, thing about her. She's got this very unique, you know has a britney murphy kind of vibe to her really yeah we're at first that you would like you don't you know and i think when britney murphy came on the scene you didn't think of like it was it was alicia silverstone show she was like but then like she kind of came into her own Brittany Murphy. Right. And like, I feel like this Jess is kind of unassuming. Like who's this kind of like quiet,

cute girl, but yeah, no, I think she might pop. I think she, I could see it. I don't know. She,

I think she has, uh, I think she has something. I could also see her winning and she was first out of the limos. Yeah. She was first out of limo. I like her. I see that more.

Like her just being so honest of like, I'm an overthinker and I wear my heart on my sleeve. Like it feels like they're having more reflective conversations. I think Jess is going to be around. I think she's got a very interesting side. Like Davia, or is it Davia? She's going. Yeah.

Yeah. She's gone. She's just like striking and Yeah. She's gone. She's just like striking and beautiful. She's just there. And with Ariel, it's like, okay, we know he's

has the hots for her and he likes making out with her. I mean, I'm curious. Yeah, we're. Yeah, it's like,

how does the one-on-one go with Ariel? Because I feel like she'll make it far enough to get a one-on-one. Right. And is it going to be like, oh, she, there's some,

some trauma to unpack and suddenly she's not just the fun one she's also this really like substantive emotional connection or is it like we had so much fun but there's nothing else well that's how it was for me and and danielle l yeah i was super in her very attractive woman i thought she from afar i was attracted to her uh and then we had a one-on-one game over yeah it was it was done what did we think of uh ali's one-on-one i thought it was a really great date for some reason i'm not believing it like i know they both say that they're very into each other and i really like her like i think she seems very genuine impressive and and i like her a lot kind

of she even talked about being in charge yeah she said i'm very type a like i fool people yeah when he was like i fool people and he was Yeah. Yeah. I like her more than I like them together, if that makes sense. Totally. Also, she's basically doing The Bachelor's narration for them. She said, falling out of the sky was scary, but falling in love with him will be worth it. I was like, oh my God. This is a Hallmark film. Yeah.

That reminded me of other things. If it were guaranteed, it would not be real. And real is what I'm after. That's just one of those things that people say, and then everyone's like, yeah, totally. But it really makes no sense at all. What does that mean? If it was guaranteed, it wouldn't be real.

I would actually argue the opposite. In fact, if you could guarantee me something. Maybe it is real. Maybe you can guarantee because it's in fact real. If it's like, well, I don't know how it's gonna turn out so like maybe wait who said that it was christina when he was when zach was confronting christina and she was crying yeah it was christina and and they were talking they were coming down just like yeah because she made some comment during their one-on-one it wouldn't be real and real is what we're after.

She made some comment similar to that on their one-on-one about it being like real or being genuine, I think. So that fits in with her. It doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. What did you think of her meltdown? Her help me, help me, help me, help me. I think she was genuinely panicked.

Yeah, I think she... I actually believe that. I believe that she is a big loose personality and maybe it's because of her. Maybe she's a little spoiled and you know, but I, I don't believe, I believe that she really realized that she, this is falling apart faster than she realized.

And I thought, I think she was getting a little cocky and maybe had some false confidence about her state with Zach or in the house and I think everything turned on her real fast. So that seemed genuine, her panic attack, or not panic, but like her reaction to, it seemed. Yeah, I mean, it was a lot,

but I think that's how she is. I think she's dramatic. I think she's a lot, yeah. I mean, she was crying on the staircase. Sobbing. Sobbing on the staircase. Sobbing. Sobbing on the staircase. And even though I'm a big fan of Brianna, like,

I was like, you're faking this. Like, you don't care. Right. You know, these are fake tears. Yeah.

These are like ego tears, not like connection tears. You know, when she left, I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm sad that Zach can't hold your attention,

but like, this is, every moment Brianna stayed on the show was a moment that just like brought her down, you know, and just, she needed, she needed to send her to paradise and have everyone fight over her.

Yeah. Yeah. Truly. Truly. I did say on the top, just closing the topic of Christinaina on the bachelor bowl there was a line where they were like she's five five and has bad intentions there's something about that that was so funny to me about being like five five it's like okay that's the at most average

height you could possibly have right but she's five five and it's not like she's five feet and small but mighty they really went for. They really tackled each other. Yeah, I was watching that and I was like, if I were a contestant, I would have sat that one out. I'm always kind of impressed when they do boxing or football and the women do it. I'd be like, no, I'm not doing this at all. Jumping out of a plane?

I'd be like, absolutely not. Who was it? Was it Genevieve? She had a sling. Oh they just kind of oh my god it was kind of painted over that they give us the biggest fake out in the world first play of the game no injury whatsoever just a girl taking a long time to get up and then we don't see like the sling situation jenna's like rub some dirt in it jenna's fine rose ceremony was just like a fucking gown and a sling. Maybe that's another reason I like her so much. And like, we never got any explanation about that whatsoever.

Yeah, I don't know. Christina's eliminated. Did anyone else think that when she was leaving the house, when Zach walked Christina out, and we kind of got that like overhead angle, that she was maybe like kind of leaning in for a kiss. I got some body language like when they were

coming out of the hug where like she kind of was like and then he clearly was not into it so she left but I rewatched it and it was like maybe that's just her instinct because they have kissed before so that's like maybe she just out of habit went in for the kiss but I was like oh no no that's gone. She she just out of habit went in for the kiss. But I was like, oh, no, no, that's gone.

She says, can I kiss you? No girl, get in the car. I have to rewatch that. He did that again on the, who was it with? He was like, I'd like to kiss you now. Oh, yeah. I think it was Ariel. It was like, ha, ha, I'd like to kiss you now.

And we got our laughs out of the way. I don't know. I mean, I'm off. Like, just the every time they just read a room zach just you now have rapport with these women you don't have to every time you're like can i kiss you now like he's one of the most respectful men i've ever seen on reality tv yeah it's wonderful it's out of control but like also pay attention to like body language and chemistry but that's what i'm. But that's what I'm saying.

Like, that's what I keep saying to people. I'm like, he's kind of everything that you might want in terms of politeness and doing things correctly. But that doesn't mean that he's a reality star. Yeah. And also to Nick's point,

maybe it's not everything you want. Cause as a woman, you don't want to have to be like, okay, kiss me now. Like, just like do it. Like if you can't pick up on the body language then, but I agree with you. I think he's doing it to be like okay kiss me now like just like do it like if you can't pick up on the body language

then but i i agree with you i think he's doing it to be respectful not because he doesn't get it i do think is a show that come that that essentially this show is a show about dating and relationships that intersects with pop culture and how we kind of discuss that i find it interesting that our current bachelor is kind of everything that uh the women of modern dating have been kind of asking for and the type of uh bare minimum or etiquette or just how someone treats people or treats women. Like communication. Communicates and respect and just earnest and just, here's your guy.

Right. And I'm just, I think it's kind of an interesting thing to discuss and break down because I think in reality, life is far more nuanced. You know, I consider myself someone who I think prides himself in his character and has high character and wants to do the right thing and can be earnest. And, you know, I have my freak flag and all the things that was portrayed to be like the polarizing guy, whatever, you know, i i have that side you know and i

think life is about kind of finding that balance and and i think people like people who have are multi-dimensional who and we all hope that you know we can have the the the lady or the guy in the streets and the freak in the sheets type of of energy but i just think it's it's interesting that zach is very much what a lot of people have been asking for in a way right and maybe not what they actually want yeah i feel like i'm really fallen for zach as bachelor though he this episode when he was picking up uh katie for their one-on-one as he's like walking by the girls he went did i hear sniffing who was sniffing and for some reason that just like really got me right i thought it was very funny and endearing and i'll have these little like moments where he'll be like kind of theatrical and his looks

and like i think the best you can do is endearing yeah what do we think zach's relationship with his chest hairs because he keeps it very trim very it's not it wild. But it's like there's clearly a lot of it, but he keeps it very trim. And then he even made a comment for the pool party. Here comes the chest hair as he was taking his shirt off. I think he's self-conscious about it. Do we think that's self-conscious or is that just kind of like a ha-ha?

No, he's clearly a very hairy guy and it's very well-groomed. Yeah. No, it's true. Do guys get their chest laser i think if he let it go really i think if he let it go it would be a thing a bush unruly it would just it would be a lot it would it would be a chish it would be something what would be something and some people love it some people don't love it but i think he's self-conscious about it because

he mentioned chest hair people well this, my chest is fully grown. And by fully grown, I mean like I truly haven't trimmed it or plucked it or done anything to it in 10 years. And if I took my shirt off now, you wouldn't be able to see any hair from five feet across the room. You know, if you got, so like, I don't, I used to shave it because it was like,

oh, I got 20 hairs on my chest. And then I was like, that's stupid. And then I stopped doing that. So I actually, like, I hate when men shave it. Like, I just think it looks gross. But that said, I guess if you're that hairy, then like, yes, you need to keep it trim. Like you gotta keep it trim.

If you notice that it's too hairy, that's a problem. But I really hate when you could tell that a guy shaves their chest. I'm like, just trim it. The prickles. Yeah, it's like one of those things where it's like, if I'm noticing it or thinking about it, that's a bad sign. Like there's definitely been guys without chest hair, with chest hair that I found attractive.

But the second I'm like thinking about the chest hair, then like there's some red flags. I think he like three guards it. It's like that with like hair extensions too where I'm like if I'm wondering if you have hair extensions they're not good extensions and just like be confident with it you know like if you have chest or you have chest hair rock it like but you could tell with him for sure it was either a self-conscious thing or he's just aware that he is hairy but since it's trim it doesn't look too hairy totally i wonder if rachel said something i think it looks great but like he

oh you think rachel fucked him up you blame it all on rachel i was like i wonder if he has some no i'm sure like i'm sure it's something he dealt with in high school or middle school and people were fucking mean or whatever or some girl he dated said some shit and there's a million ways we get self-conscious about our bodies including men. Yeah, so no and I think he, yeah. And so he's the bachelor taking his shirt off and around a group of women and that inner child and Zach came out and that was basically saying,

please don't judge me in that moment. It was endearing but yeah, I think me in that moment. It was endearing. But yeah, I think he three guards it. He's just kind of. He's definitely very aware of it. So I tend to agree with you that somebody probably said something to him at some point in his life.

But like, you're a man, you're supposed to have chest hair. Yeah. Right? Own it, King. What about back hair? That's a no, that's a hard pass in my opinion

yeah I can't think of a time where I've noticed someone's back hair so I feel like if I did notice that I don't know how I would react maybe I don't know I've never encountered that I like hairless

I'm like if I can wax and laser my down under, you can figure something out. Like, that's how I feel. You want, okay. So you want them plucked. Yeah. We could go do laser together. Okay.

Beautiful. Beautiful bonding moment. First date. Everyone has their taste. I mean, look, I'm Jewish. So I guess I, I mean, look i'm jewish so i guess i mean now i'm engaged but i guess i always was dating jews who tend to be a bit more hairy that might be a stereotype more hairy yeah yeah that's like a thing i i can say that that's it

might be a blanket statement not everyone but jewish men usually don't have like a hairless chest that's a great point yeah it's not thing. So maybe it's just what I'm. I'm 8% Jewish. Oh, that's where those 20 hairs come from. That's where those 20 hairs come from. Exactly. That's the Jew in you, Nick. Represent. All right.

Well, Elizabeth, thank you so much as always for coming. Always fun to chat with you. Where can my audience once again consume your content, follow you, all the great stuff that you're doing? So, Variety.com and Variety Magazine and my social handles are at EWagmeister. And thank you for having me. It's always so much fun to hang.

Please come back, obviously, next season. I'd love to. I hope you do. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at Asknickatthevilefiles.com. Subscribe, rate, review. Go back and check out our episode on Ask Nick on Monday. And don't forget Going Deeper on Thursday this week.

And then next week, Raven from Love is Blind talks about all the SK drama, all the infidelity, all the cheating, all the rumors are addressed and answered. It's a wild story. Our jaws were dropped. Yours will too. Don't miss it. That is next Thursday. Also, don't forget on Thursday, Better Date Than Never, a new episode, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. You do not want to miss it. Tell your friends. If you have been struggling at all with dating and relationships, or you just like hearing people's stories, you better make sure you tune in because you'll miss out if you don't until then bye